Reporter Handcuffed for Asking Questions at Joe Miller Event

The new Tea Party Republican response to being asked questions by reporters: put them in handcuffs.

Alaska Dispatch founder and editor Tony Hopfinger was grabbed and handcuffed by a private security detail working for U.S. Senate candidate Joe Miller on Sunday while trying to ask the Fairbanks Republican questions following a town hall meeting at Central Middle School in Anchorage on Sunday.

Hopfinger was reportedly pressing Miller on whether the candidate had ever been reprimanded for politicking while working at the Fairbanks North Star Borough in 2008. Alaska Dispatch and other media have sued for the release of records related Miller’s time at the borough. Various accounts of what happened next generally agree on this course of events:

Two or three bodyguards told Hopfinger to stop asking questions and to leave the building.

Hopfinger continued to ask questions while apparently videotaping the candidate.

Bodyguards told him that if he persisted they would arrest him for trespassing, but refused to identify themselves to Hopfinger.

Hopfinger asked why he was trespassing, as the event was at a public school. Seconds later, he was then put in arm-bar and later handcuffed and sequestered at one end of a hallway for at least 30 minutes. He was told, “You’re under arrest.”

Anchorage Police arrived on the scene shortly after.

Police were still trying to sort things out as this was written.

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330 comments

1 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:19:37am

We need more beatings. More beatings, Carry on.

2 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:26:06am

Last time I checked kidnapping was a felony. Or is this illegal arrest? Whatever it is, I don't think it will end well for Mr. Miller.

3 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:35:52am

Out for a bit.

4 freetoken  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:37:53am

On the meeting itself, some people are reporting what Miller said, which sounds like par for the Tea Partiers:

On Sunday, Joe Miller, candidate for US Senate, held a town hall meeting at a middle school in Anchorage. When asked about illegal immigration, Miller offered up: Build a wall! "If the East Germans could do it, so can we!"

If the report is true, that has to be one of the dumbest things to have been said about immigration.

5 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:39:43am

re: #4 freetoken

On the meeting itself, some people are reporting what Miller said, which sounds like par for the Tea Partiers:


If the report is true, that has to be one of the dumbest things to have been said about immigration.

I agree. He couldn't have thought of a better "wall" to use as a metaphor? Brilliant.

6 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:40:04am

Those security guards should be arrested.

So should Miller.

7 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:44:58am

Morning, all!

8 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:45:04am

re: #4 freetoken

That is so critically stupid it's hard to even engage with. That's "Did we leave Vietnam when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" level of stupid.

9 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:57:35am

re: #8 Obdicut

That is so critically stupid it's hard to even engage with. That's "Did we leave Vietnam when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" level of stupid.

I thought we never declared war on Germany...

10 Stephen T.  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:58:13am

I'm not surprised. Private security firms, uniformed with badges, guns and tazers, don't have to Mirandize anyone, they don't have to have warrants, but they can place someone in custody until the real police arrive, removing the person as a "threat". More, in certain places, private security cannot be held accountable for the time the person is held, that is, they are sheltered from law suits (or prosecution) because holding suspects is part of their job, and if they have held you by mistake, too bad for you! I'm sure we will begin to see more private security outfits like this at rally's where disruptive, unwanted, troublemakers, such as reporters, may show up.

11 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:06:03am

re: #9 ralphieboy

I thought we never declared war on Germany...

You thought wrong...December 11, 1941. You could look it up.

12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:06:13am

I am smelling civil rights violations...

13 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:08:37am

re: #11 bratwurst

exactly.......right after they bombed pearl harbour........

14 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:12:45am

re: #10 Scarecrow237

I really doubt the law works like that. I don't think security guards actually have any real authority to hold people, or are shielded from lawsuits. Can you cite anything to support this?

15 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:12:45am

re: #11 bratwurst

J.D. Hayworth didn't have to look it up, and neither should I...

[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]

16 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:18:02am

re: #15 ralphieboy

JD Hayworth

*throws up a little in brain*

17 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:36:55am

So what's the backstory on this? He's accused of doing political campaigning while being paid to be a lawyer for the borough?

Would that be, well, illegal?

18 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:40:08am

re: #2 rwdflynavy

Last time I checked kidnapping was a felony. Or is this illegal arrest? Whatever it is, I don't think it will end well for Mr. Miller.

Don't kid yourself. This only increases his popularity among the Tea Party demographic.

19 Charleston Chew  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:51:31am
Hopfinger asked why he was trespassing, as the event was at a public school.

Well there's where he made his mistake. Republicans don't believe in public schools. Or public anything. He might as well have said "You can't arrest me, I'm at a unicorn!" In their minds, all property is private property. Their private property. And how dare the half of the country that votes for Democrats (or anyone else) trespass upon it!

20 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:59:43am

Good morning lizards!

21 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:07:44am

Unlike Miller, the Black Keys rock:

22 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:10:14am

Can't say I'm surprised. I've met very few people at that far end of the political spectrum that didn't believe freedom is only for themselves and those who think like them.

I was working with one a couple of years ago on a writing project. I knew their political stance. We'd kept it out of our friendship and professional association. Personally, I thought they were a pretty good person. More driven than me, but still good.

Then I posted something on a political forum they really disagreed with. They immediately set about using the power our former friendship and professional association granted them to get me to STFU.

Sad. I really liked that project.

23 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:17:02am

re: #22 Romantic Heretic

That's sad.

In this case, it looks like Miller is getting desperate.

24 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:24:32am

Bush & Cheney were notorious for putting people out of "town hall meetings" for wearing anti-war t-shirts. He is just continuing a great tradition

25 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:29:56am

It could have been worse, Miller could have gotten physical with the reporter instead.

26 Ericus58  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:42:55am

Alabama Chuckle

A man walked into the produce section of his local supermarket and asked to buy a half head of lettuce. The boy working in that department told him that they only sold whole heads of lettuce. The man was insistent that the boy ask his manager about the matter.

Walking into the back room, the boy said to the manager, "Some ass-hole wants to buy a half head of lettuce." As he finished his sentence, he turned to find the man standing right behind him, so he added, "And this gentleman kindly offered to buy the other half."

The manager approved the deal and the man went on his way. Later the manager said to the boy, "I was impressed with the way you got yourself out of that situation earlier. We like people who think on their feet here. Where are you from, son?"

" Alabama , sir." the boy replied.

"Well, why did you leave Alabama ?" the manager asked.

The boy said, "Sir, there's nothing but whores and football players there."

"Really?" said the manager "My wife is from Alabama "

"Get outta here!" the boy said. "Who'd she play for?"

27 stevemcg  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:44:04am

I wonder who will win the spin cycle. I'm sure that poor Joe Miller's supporters are going to insist that the reporter was rude and disruptive. Probably call him a stalker. The embrace of ignorance by the right wingers is breathtaking.

28 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:49:05am

re: #27 stevemcg

I wonder who will win the spin cycle. I'm sure that poor Joe Miller's supporters are going to insist that the reporter was rude and disruptive. Probably call him a stalker. The embrace of ignorance by the right wingers is breathtaking.

Close, assault is being mentioned already...

Hopfinger has not been charged but the owner of the Drop Zone, the private security firm that's been providing Miller's security, accused Hopfinger of trespassing at the public event, a town hall sponsored by the Miller campaign. The owner, William Fulton, also said Hopfinger assaulted a man by shoving him.

29 stevemcg  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:49:40am

How about an informal poll: How many of you think Charles was up late, and how many think he was up early? My guess is up early.

30 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:52:17am

So, if I understand correctly, the First Amendment of the US Constitution also needs to be repealed?

31 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:53:00am

re: #29 stevemcg

How about an informal poll: How many of you think Charles was up late, and how many think he was up early? My guess is up early.

My vote is up late.

32 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:53:52am

re: #31 rwdflynavy

My vote is up late.

Up Early. He could have an early flight somewhere.

33 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:54:21am

re: #32 darthstar

Up Early. He could have an early flight somewhere.


LESS FILLING!!!
// wait, what?

34 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:55:00am

re: #28 NJDhockeyfan

Miller hired a private security company called "Drop Zone?" Wow, he really does see himself as a GI Joe wannabe.

35 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:57:18am

re: #34 darthstar

Miller hired a private security company called "Drop Zone?" Wow, he really does see himself as a GI Joe wannabe.

Maybe they arrive by parachute.

36 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:58:56am

re: #33 rwdflynavy

LESS FILLING!!!
// wait, what?

Great Bass, Lesh Philling.

37 jc717  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 6:59:00am

Is this what's meant by 'auxiliary law enforcement'?

38 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:00:13am

re: #14 Obdicut

Miller will fire these guys and get Blackwater next...
//

39 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:03:01am

re: #38 Rightwingconspirator

Miller will fire these guys and get Blackwater next...
//

I'm just looking forward to having a constitution short enough that anyone can memorize it.

Currently, the Amendments on the block:
14th
17th
1st - new arrival

40 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:03:14am

Morning.

I really slept in today.

41 Lidane  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:03:29am

re: #30 darthstar

So, if I understand correctly, the First Amendment of the US Constitution also needs to be repealed?

Only for the "lamestream" media, liberals, brown people, gays, Muslims, and anyone who doesn't speak English.

/Tea Party

42 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:03:39am

re: #14 Obdicut

I really doubt the law works like that. I don't think security guards actually have any real authority to hold people, or are shielded from lawsuits. Can you cite anything to support this?

Not sure about Alaska but in Indiana you can be arrested by a private citizen
(Indiana Code 35-33-1-4). I think he might be slightly confused though since the citizen is still liable for false arrest/detention while the officer who takes custody is immune.

43 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:03:50am

re: #37 jc717

Is this what's meant by 'auxiliary law enforcement'?

Ask that question again and I'll have you arrested.

44 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:04:59am

re: #42 RogueOne

Not sure about Alaska but in Indiana you can be arrested by a private citizen
(Indiana Code 35-33-1-4). I think he might be slightly confused though since the citizen is still liable for false arrest/detention while the officer who takes custody is immune.

Citizens Arrest...legal in most states, but you need to declare it as such pending the arrival of law enforcement, after which you step back.

45 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:06:31am

re: #44 darthstar

Citizens Arrest...legal in most states, but you need to declare it as such pending the arrival of law enforcement, after which you step back.

47 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:09:02am

re: #46 Lidane

as long as muslim=terrorist keeps being bantered about as an equivalency, they have made their point

48 Winny Spencer  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:13:51am

re: #46 Lidane

The very definition of sincerity, right there.

49 Lidane  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:16:38am

BTW, there's an update to the main story that Charles links to. When the police arrived, Miller's goons were forced to release the reporter:

[Link: alaskadispatch.com...]

[Update, 10/18, 7:08 p.m. AKDT]: Anchorage Police freed Alaska Dispatcher editor Tony Hopfinger from Senate candidate Joe Mlller's body guards at Central Middle School early Sunday evening. Sergeant Mark Rein of the Anchorage Police Department said Hopfinger is not in custody or under arrest.

Hopfinger had been trying to ask Miller questions when two or three guards told him to leave or risk being charged with trespassing.

When Hopfinger continued to try to ask questions, one of the guards put the reporter in an arm-bar and then handcuffed him.

Hopfinger was released after police arrived.

The reporter was on public property where a public event was being held at the time of the incident.

Miller has been adamant about his desire to avoid talking to the Alaska media, but no one in the working press in Alaska has ever before seen a candidate go to this length to avoid questions.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:17:21am
Police were still trying to sort things out as this was written.

I feel for them.

51 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:21:18am

For those lizards in Europe, be safe please.

Official: New al Qaeda threat targets Europe, 'notably France'


Saudi Arabian intelligence services are warning of a new terrorist threat from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula targeting Europe, especially France, French Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux said in a radio interview Sunday.

"Several days ago the Saudi services alerted their European counterparts that there was a terrorist threat on the continent, notably in France, coming from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula," Hortefeux told RTL Radio. The message indicated the branch of al Qaeda was active or about to become active in Europe.

"The threat is real and our vigilance is intact," he said. France's terror alert level is at Reinforced Red, the second-highest level below Scarlette Red. "Vigilance is total," Hortefeux said.

52 Summer Seale  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:23:14am

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

For those lizards in Europe, be safe please.

Official: New al Qaeda threat targets Europe, 'notably France'

Yea, I live in France. In the Alps though. But thanks, I do appreciate it. However, as there's literally nothing anyone can do about an impending attack, I'm trying not to think about it.

Right now, all the strikes and blockages on the roads are more of a threat to my life and the French nation in general than the threat of a terrorist attack.

It's a madhouse! A Maaaaaaddddddddhouuuuseeeeee!!!!!

53 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:24:45am

This brings back memories. Back in college in 1977 in Ohio, Jimmy Carter, who was running for President, was coming to speak on the college green. Throughout the year, there was 60’s left over hippie guy who was always hanging out on the green haranguing people about one cause or another. He was there in full glory “entertaining” people as the crowd swelled for Carter’s arrive. Suddenly off to one side there was a commotion and the motorcade arrived and everyone stood and craned their necks off to the arriving candidate. I happened to look back and saw several guys in business suits and sunglasses, clearly secret service, dragging the hippie, hand over his mouth, off somewhere. After the speech and with everyone gone, said hippie was back on the green telling anyone who would listen that he had been kidnapped by the secret service. I actually asked him what happened and the secret service simply dragged him into a classroom, handcuffed him to a desk, then came back and let him out afterward and never said a word to him.

54 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:26:33am

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

For those lizards in Europe, be safe please.

Official: New al Qaeda threat targets Europe, 'notably France'

I hope they get over all this before Jan. 2011, or else it's going to add a layer of excitement to my Paris vacation.

55 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:27:16am

re: #52 Summer

Yea, I live in France. In the Alps though. But thanks, I do appreciate it. However, as there's literally nothing anyone can do about an impending attack, I'm trying not to think about it.

Right now, all the strikes and blockages on the roads are more of a threat to my life and the French nation in general than the threat of a terrorist attack.

It's a madhouse! A Maaadddhouuuseee!!!


[Video]

I think the islamic terrorists are targeting places filled with people, especially foreigners so stay away from discos, shopping malls, hotels, and the Eiffel Tower.

56 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:29:37am

Awhile ago I told some of you to keep your fingers crossed about a project I was quoting, You can go ahead and release the fingers. I have a meeting in a couple hours to go over the final details and to sign the contract. That takes my quarterly total to roughly 150% of budget and the month isn't over yet.

57 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:31:23am

re: #55 NJDhockeyfan

I think the islamic terrorists are targeting places filled with people, especially foreigners so stay away from discos, shopping malls, hotels, and the Eiffel Tower.

You should stay away from discos regardless of the terrorist threat.

58 nines09  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:33:36am

I guess Joe got Sharon Angles'MEMO and thought to carry it a bit further. Nice to see the version of America they have in mind.

59 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:33:53am

re: #27 stevemcg

I wonder who will win the spin cycle. I'm sure that poor Joe Miller's supporters are going to insist that the reporter was rude and disruptive. Probably call him a stalker.

Well sure... following the guy around, wanting to know what he's doing, what he's saying, writing down his exact words and distributing them to everybody, That sounds stalkery to me. Can't a Senate candidate get a little privacy at his campaign events? He just wants to be left alone.

//

60 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:35:33am

re: #33 rwdflynavy

LESS FILLING!!!
// wait, what?

It's a floor wax and a dessert topping!!

(how many of you are old enough to what the hell I'm talking about?)

61 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:36:06am

re: #30 darthstar

So, if I understand correctly, the First Amendment of the US Constitution also needs to be repealed?

It only applies to Real Americans™. liberals, whatever those are, and reporters, save those from The Ministry of Truth (Fox News) aren't Real Americans™.

62 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:37:46am

re: #59 sagehen

This is the natural development when WWE, "Dog the Bounty Hunter" and "Repo Man" draw large TV audiences. We're prepping for a trip to the neo-feudal.

63 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:38:12am

re: #56 RogueOne

you hiring yet?

64 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:38:42am

Although the building was public property, the Miller people had rented it for a private function for invited guests.

According to some reports, Hopfinger was asked to leave. He did not. Thus, he was trespassing.

My guess is this will all go nowhere in the end/

65 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:38:55am

re: #60 sagehen

Old enough, I'm sure, but there are big gaps in my pop culture refs.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:39:14am

Poll: Many Obama 2008 supporters defecting to GOP

President Barack Obama's winning coalition from 2008 has crumbled and his core backers are dispirited. It's now Republicans who stand to benefit from an electorate that's again craving change.

Nearly two years after putting Obama in the White House, one-quarter of those who voted for the Democrat are defecting to the GOP or considering voting against the party in power this fall. Just half of them say they definitely will show up Nov. 2, according to an Associated Press-Knowledge Networks poll released two weeks before Obama's first midterm elections.

Ouch.

67 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:39:57am

re: #65 Decatur Deb

Old enough, I'm sure, but there are big gaps in my pop culture refs.

It is a scared beer reference.

68 Crimsonfisted  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:40:23am

re: #60 sagehen

It's a floor wax and a dessert topping!!

(how many of you are old enough to what the hell I'm talking about?)

Sadly yes. That old.

69 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:40:47am

re: #39 darthstar

I'm just looking forward to having a constitution short enough that anyone can memorize it.

Currently, the Amendments on the block:
14th
17th
1st - new arrival

The people agitating for those particular redactions aren't too fond of the 4th, 5th or 8th, either. Or the 16th. Or the 23rd, 24th or 26th. Or the 15th and 19th.

They want to make it simple. The 2nd and 10th are the only ones that really matter.

70 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:40:49am

re: #63 Big Steve

you hiring yet?

I'm keeping 2 guys busy right now. I was hoping to do it with just one but it seems everyone is trying to get as much in this year before the tax rates change. The downside is I was planning on taking the whole month of December off, I'll have to switch it to January or February I guess.

71 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:41:57am

re: #67 researchok

It is a scared beer reference.

Thanks, that almost helped, What is scared beer? A ghost from Old Frothingslosh castle?

72 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:42:22am

Well it is always easy to dislike the President in office when there is no specific alternative. However when 2012 rolls around and the Republicans seem determined to pick a candidate from the Star Wars Bar scene menagerie, Barack will look a lot better.

73 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:42:46am

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

Poll: Many Obama 2008 supporters defecting to GOP

Ouch.

I think the Obama people would have been a lot smarter to focus on governance rather than demonizing their opposition.

Going crazy over (politically powerless) nut jobs like Palin and O'Donnell doesn't satisfy a unhappy electorate.

74 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:44:02am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

Thanks, that almost helped, What is scared beer? A ghost from Old Frothingslosh castle?

Sorry for the typo- sacred beer reference.

Miller Lite: More taste. Less filling.

75 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:44:27am

re: #73 researchok

I think the Obama people would have been a lot smarter to focus on governance rather than demonizing their opposition.

Going crazy over (politically powerless) nut jobs like Palin and O'Donnell doesn't satisfy a unhappy electorate.

They had their chance when Scott Brown took MA with almost 70% of the independent vote. Instead of doing damage control they intentionally poured fuel on the fire, not real smart.

76 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:45:19am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

Thanks, that almost helped, What is scared beer? A ghost from Old Frothingslosh castle?

OH MY GOD ,,,I thought I was the only one that (still) knows about Old Frothingslosh!!

The Pale Stale Beer With The Foam On The Bottom!

[Link: www.google.com...]

77 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:45:59am

re: #74 researchok

Sorry for the typo- sacred beer reference.

Miller Lite: More taste. Less filling.

Thanks, I've been seing that ref here lately. For fun, look up Old Frothingslosh beer, a product of Pittsburgh's greatest radio guy.

78 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:46:54am

Stabbed — during anger-management class


BELLEVUE, Wash. — A 19-year-old woman was charged with second-degree assault after allegedly stabbing another woman during an anger-management class, the Seattle Times reported.

The incident occurred Saturday while a video on anger management was being shown, the Times said. Police said Faribah Maradiaga walked into a classroom at Bellevue College and started complaining about the video. The victim told her "to give it a chance," according to charging documents.

..so she pulled out a 3" knife and stabbed her.

79 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:47:06am

re: #76 sattv4u2

OH MY GOD ,,,I thought I was the only one that (still) knows about Old Frothingslosh!!

The Pale Stale Beer With The Foam On The Bottom!

[Link: www.google.com...]

I remember the B&W commericals.

80 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:47:31am

re: #79 Decatur Deb

I remember the B&W commericals.

A lovely bevy of ladies, they were!!

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:48:26am

re: #80 sattv4u2

A lovely bevy of ladies, they were!!

Pound for pound, you couldn't beat them.

82 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:48:44am

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan


Yet in a reflection of broad dissatisfaction with politics, just as many people who backed Republican presidential nominee John McCain are either supporting Democrats now or still considering how to vote.

They are called swing voters. Nothing new or outrageous.

83 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:49:02am

re: #79 Decatur Deb

The Pale Stale Beer With The Foam On The Bottom!

I'll bet that was a trip by end of the night...

84 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:50:03am

re: #65 Decatur Deb

Old enough, I'm sure, but there are big gaps in my pop culture refs.

It's from the first season of Saturday Night Live. I think it was Dan Akroyd and Jane Newman in that particular sketch.

85 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:51:38am
86 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:52:22am

re: #84 sagehen

It's from the first season of Saturday Night Live. I think it was Dan Akroyd and Jane Newman in that particular sketch.

Akroyd for sure

making like the typical TV pitch man

87 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:52:29am

re: #78 RogueOne

Stabbed — during anger-management class
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

..so she pulled out a 3" knife and stabbed her.

This is what happens when we can't fire ineffective teachers...

88 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:52:40am

re: #72 Big Steve

Well it is always easy to dislike the President in office when there is no specific alternative. However when 2012 rolls around and the Republicans seem determined to pick a candidate from the Star Wars Bar scene menagerie, Barack will look a lot better.


That is the Tea Party's strength right now: they are not called on to make specific policy decisions, or to cut specific programs. They can spout venom and embrace ideology.

And the Republican Party has put itself into a position that anyone who appeals to their new "base" will totally alienate anyone in the center. And their hard-core base will never account for more than 30% of the electorate.

89 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:53:33am

re: #88 ralphieboy

Oh, I hope so...

90 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:54:28am

Plumbing task. BBL

91 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:55:16am

re: #90 Decatur Deb

Plumbing task. BBL

Forgot to flush, huh !?!?!

//

92 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:56:15am

re: #89 Decatur Deb

Oh, I hope so...


Look at Sarah Palin's numbers: she has about 20% of voters firmly behind her, while the rest find her unfit for office.

That about sums it up for me. The only way the Republicans will be able to get their candidates into office is by stealth and by avoiding the issues to the point of walking out on reporters - or by having them evicted from their press conferences.

93 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:56:29am

re: #87 sagehen

This is what happens when we can't fire ineffective teachers...

It was an extra-credit project on how not to be a film critic.

94 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:57:58am

re: #92 ralphieboy

Look at Sarah Palin's numbers: she has about 20% of voters firmly behind her, while the rest find her unfit for office.

That about sums it up for me. The only way the Republicans will be able to get their candidates into office is by stealth and by avoiding the issues to the point of walking out on reporters - or by having them evicted from their press conferences.

Hand-cuffing them for asking questions can't be all that helpful to a campaign. Now Miller gets to dodge questions about this.

95 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 7:58:17am

re: #92 ralphieboy

OR ,,, running against an even more odious dem!

96 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:02:11am

re: #92 ralphieboy

Look at Sarah Palin's numbers: she has about 20% of voters firmly behind her, while the rest find her unfit for office.

That about sums it up for me. The only way the Republicans will be able to get their candidates into office is by stealth and by avoiding the issues to the point of walking out on reporters - or by having them evicted from their press conferences.

The Republicans aren't the ones having problems with voters right now.

The Democrats' brutal weekend

More bad polls. More bad fundraising numbers. More dreary talk on the Sunday shows.

It added up to a brutal weekend for Democrats, as the consensus among election analysts, already bearish on the party’s prospects, took a turn for the worse over the past 48 hours.

In the eyes of the experts, the House Democratic majority most likely won’t survive Nov. 2, with political handicappers expanding their predictions to envision the possibility of a Democratic wipeout.

Analyst Stu Rothenberg pegs the number of competitive seats at 100. Charlie Cook says it's 97. Virtually all of those seats are held by Democrats.

Rothenberg is predicting a likely Republican gain of 40 to 50 seats, with 60 seats possible. Republicans need a net pickup of 39 seats to take the House.

One House Democrat, reflecting widespread conversations with his colleagues, guessed Sunday that his party will lose 50 seats. Many, he said, are calling with urgent pleas for more contributions.

The Senate may stay in Democratic hands — but only by the narrowest of margins, so slim that it will make a handful of moderates from both parties the only people who will decide whether anything gets done.

97 avanti  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:02:31am

Crazy Pam has responded to the comments about the "disabled" lady being harassed by Muslims,/Hispanics/Blacks. She ignores the fact that the lady is not disabled, her history of complaints about minorities, and even her fondness for Nazi films.

She's upset because she claims her comments about a auxiliary police force were simply a request for the sort of rent-a-cop you see in a gated community or a community watch:

"UPDATE: Once again, the bloodthirsty jackals and hyenas are returning to their own vomit. I am sure many readers and most Americans are familiar with auxiliary law enforcement and neighborhood watch. Millions of Americans have auxiliary cops in their gated communities, in their neighborhoods, as an extra set of eyes. The police can't be everywhere. To make this outrageous and outlandish leap to militias is the stuff of the rabid, mouth-foaming leftist destruction machine. Everyone deserves equal protection under the law. If that offends the goosesteppers, they can kiss my Keystone Kops.

When I lived in Florida for a short time, and the little community that I lived in had an auxiliary police force. Granted, it was a bunch of lovely old retirees who kept us safe. Are they Nazi militia too? The whole idea that we be held hostage by lawless thugs is un-American and outrageous. Everyone is entitled to feel safe, and to be safe."

She also disputes the NYT corrections of her stats, but makes a better case for that at least.

98 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:02:36am

re: #92 ralphieboy

Look at Sarah Palin's numbers: she has about 20% of voters firmly behind her, while the rest find her unfit for office.

That about sums it up for me. The only way the Republicans will be able to get their candidates into office is by stealth and by avoiding the issues to the point of walking out on reporters - or by having them evicted from their press conferences.

You're so right... there are about 45 to 55 seats that look, at this point, like they will go to conservatives... and I have noticed at least 50 news reports about GOP candidates doing everything from handcuffing reporters to their media vans to tearing the reporters tongues out.

It's become really scary.

99 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:03:26am

re: #92 ralphieboy

Look at Sarah Palin's numbers: she has about 20% of voters firmly behind her, while the rest find her unfit for office.

That about sums it up for me. The only way the Republicans will be able to get their candidates into office is by stealth and by avoiding the issues to the point of walking out on reporters - or by having them evicted from their press conferences.

add to that a bit. 20% of the public also believe the country is "headed in the right direction". That means that a solid 40% of the public are retards.

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:03:54am

re: #95 sattv4u2

Hey man.. how's mum?

101 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:05:21am

re: #96 NJDhockeyfan

The Republicans aren't the ones having problems with voters right now.

The Democrats' brutal weekend

Image: omg_wtf_bbq.jpg

102 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:06:19am

re: #98 Walter L. Newton

You're so right... there are about 45 to 55 seats that look, at this point, like they will go to conservatives... and I have noticed at least 50 news reports about GOP candidates doing everything from handcuffing reporters to their media vans to tearing the reporters tongues out.

It's become really scary.

The vans weren't moving.

103 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:06:20am

I actually like Obama.

I certainly don't agree with all his policies (mostly economic) but I think the guy is a breath of fresh air.

Unfortunately, he's been saddled by a House and Senate rife with back pocket deals, a large part of a base who won't be happy unless there is capitalist blood running in the streets and an opposition who would argue the sky is green if Obama declared his firm conviction it were blue.

Still, there seems no political will demanding good governance (I know, I'm droning on). I simply do not understand a strategy focused on demonizing the other guy (who has no political influence whatsoever). How does that make for better policy and better government? That's like saying, "Vote for us. We're pretty bad, but the other guys are worse". It seems to me that if the team Obama strategies were to focus on themselves and what they can accomplish, they'd be a shoo in. Obama is the president of all Americans, not just Democrats and liberals. The Move On crowd no more owns the Democrats than the Tea party owns the GOP.

This election is Obama's to lose- every poll shows a high personal appeal level. His weaknesses are in the perception that he isn't up to the job. Exchange the lunatic base segment with real middle of the road moderates, smack an ineffectual Congress around and demand they do their job in a responsible way and he'll win by a landslide.

104 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:06:50am

re: #91 sattv4u2

Close, flusher handle is free-spinning. Where have you put the cameras?

Gone again.

105 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:07:01am

re: #97 avanti

She has deleted the letter altogether.

106 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:09:13am

re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey man.. how's mum?

one and an eighth step forward
one step back!

when I left Boston Thursday night, she had a couple of "good" days in a row, followed by another good one Friday

Sometime on Saturday she started feeling stomach pain again. Whatever was bleeding and causing it before had stopped, but has started again. They're trying to treat that without surgery, but surgery is still on the table!

She has a long way to go yet. I'll probably go back up there Wednesday night

Thank you

107 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:09:52am

NPR just announced that there will be a group performing free lead testing on toys. Parents can bring their child's toys in and have them tested on the spot. (I'm imagining a cafeteria type set-up with a line of parents and toys leading to an eight foot table with three scientific looking people who take the toys, look at them, stick them in their mouths, then hand them back to the parents saying, "Safe." or "Not safe.")

108 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:11:00am

re: #105 Killgore Trout

She has deleted the letter altogether.

She's painted herself into a corner. She can't escape and and she has to keep escalating to validate her 'Real American' values.

At some point, the caricature that she has become will be evident to even her most ardent supporters.

109 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:11:12am

re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar

BTW ,, I need your expertise

I'm having a dinner party week after next. I'm making one of my specialties. Chicken Parm with home made sauce and pasta, green beans and salad and garlic bread

What do you suggest as a good appetizer?

110 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:12:28am

re: #109 sattv4u2

BTW ,, I need your expertise

I'm having a dinner party week after next. I'm making one of my specialties. Chicken Parm with home made sauce and pasta, green beans and salad and garlic bread

What do you suggest as a good appetizer?

Crab meat stuffed mushrooms.

111 avanti  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:13:01am

In the interest of fact checking, if Hot Air got this right, the hand cuffing incident may be more complicated.

" Hopfinger, who was holding a small video camera, said he was attempting to draw out a statement from Miller on why he was disciplined by the Fairbanks North Star Borough when Miller worked there as a part-time attorney. After Miller walked away, Hopfinger said, he was surrounded by Miller supporters and security guards and felt threatened, so he pushed one of them away. …

Hopfinger said that after he shoved the man away, the guards grabbed him, cuffed his hands behind his back with steel handcuffs and sat him in a chair in the school hallway, Hopfinger said."

112 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:13:32am

re: #107 darthstar

NPR just announced that there will be a group performing free lead testing on toys. Parents can bring their child's toys in and have them tested on the spot. (I'm imagining a cafeteria type set-up with a line of parents and toys leading to an eight foot table with three scientific looking people who take the toys, look at them, stick them in their mouths, then hand them back to the parents saying, "Safe." or "Not safe.")

I have a safer and easier way to tell

STICKER ON TOY

"MADE IN CHINA" ='s lead

MADE IN (anywhere else)" ='s not lead !!

113 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:13:35am

re: #98 Walter L. Newton

You're so right... there are about 45 to 55 seats that look, at this point, like they will go to conservatives... and I have noticed at least 50 news reports about GOP candidates doing everything from handcuffing reporters to their media vans to tearing the reporters tongues out.

It's become really scary.

The GOP is getting really desperate, from physically hitting their opponents & reporters to sending their significant others to heckle their opponents. They don't stand a chance.

114 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:13:52am

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

Crab meat stuffed mushrooms.

Ooooowwww

Me likey ,, I can do that ,, Thanks

115 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:15:18am

re: #105 Killgore Trout

She has deleted the letter altogether.

This is the internet...there is no delete.

116 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:15:26am

re: #64 researchok

Although the building was public property, the Miller people had rented it for a private function for invited guests.

According to some reports, Hopfinger was asked to leave. He did not. Thus, he was trespassing.

My guess is this will all go nowhere in the end/

It was a public event.

117 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:15:43am

re: #107 darthstar

NPR just announced that there will be a group performing free lead testing on toys. Parents can bring their child's toys in and have them tested on the spot. (I'm imagining a cafeteria type set-up with a line of parents and toys leading to an eight foot table with three scientific looking people who take the toys, look at them, stick them in their mouths, then hand them back to the parents saying, "Safe." or "Not safe.")

Avoid Chinese toys with lead...buy American toys.

TOYS MADE IN AMERICA

118 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:16:19am

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Pound for pound, you couldn't beat them.

...and if you tried they would sit on you.

119 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:16:36am

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

The GOP is getting really desperate, from physically hitting their opponents & reporters to sending their significant others to heckle their opponents. They don't stand a chance.

Of course they stand a chance. Americans love assholes.

120 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:16:37am

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

Don't forget the Conway ad against Rand in KY:

Can anyone else smell the desperation?

121 jordash1212  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:17:55am

We all know how well that went when Amy Goodman was detained at the RNC in St. Paul 2008.

122 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:18:33am

re: #42 RogueOne

Not sure about Alaska but in Indiana you can be arrested by a private citizen
(Indiana Code 35-33-1-4). I think he might be slightly confused though since the citizen is still liable for false arrest/detention while the officer who takes custody is immune.

And you can only do it if you actually see a felony occurring. Trespassing is not a felony.

123 APox  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:18:36am

Here's one "journalist" that I wish would be silenced.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

124 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:19:24am

re: #116 recusancy

It was a public event.

But they rented the space- or so I read somewhere.

I just assumed if you rent the space, you can control who and who does not have access.

125 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:19:45am

re: #103 researchok

I actually like Obama.

I certainly don't agree with all his policies (mostly economic) but I think the guy is a breath of fresh air.

Unfortunately, he's been saddled by a House and Senate rife with back pocket deals, a large part of a base who won't be happy unless there is capitalist blood running in the streets and an opposition who would argue the sky is green if Obama declared his firm conviction it were blue.

Still, there seems no political will demanding good governance (I know, I'm droning on). I simply do not understand a strategy focused on demonizing the other guy (who has no political influence whatsoever). How does that make for better policy and better government? That's like saying, "Vote for us. We're pretty bad, but the other guys are worse". It seems to me that if the team Obama strategies were to focus on themselves and what they can accomplish, they'd be a shoo in. Obama is the president of all Americans, not just Democrats and liberals. The Move On crowd no more owns the Democrats than the Tea party owns the GOP.

This election is Obama's to lose- every poll shows a high personal appeal level. His weaknesses are in the perception that he isn't up to the job. Exchange the lunatic base segment with real middle of the road moderates, smack an ineffectual Congress around and demand they do their job in a responsible way and he'll win by a landslide.

You want him to "smack an ineffectual Congress around"? If he did anything close to that you'd be screaming about heavy handed chicago style politics. You already think he focuses on demonizing rather then governing. His problem is he's been governing rather then politicking.

126 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:19:56am

re: #96 NJDhockeyfan
The significant difference between Sarah Palin's lack of support and the lack of support for congressional incumbants is that Palin isn't running for office right now.

As tempting a target as Palin is I wonder if running against her (or Bush's legacy) isn't a tactical error on the part of the Dems?

127 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:20:31am

re: #123 APox

Here's one "journalist" that I wish would be silenced.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

The first amendment is important. Everyone has the right to be stoopid.

128 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:21:15am

re: #117 NJDhockeyfan

Avoid Chinese toys with lead...buy American toys.

TOYS MADE IN AMERICA

Thye local head shop has some really nice locally made glassware. I think they are lamps or something. /

129 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:21:50am

re: #109 sattv4u2

BTW ,, I need your expertise

I'm having a dinner party week after next. I'm making one of my specialties. Chicken Parm with home made sauce and pasta, green beans and salad and garlic bread

What do you suggest as a good appetizer?

Jello shots.

130 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:21:58am

re: #123 APox

Here's one "journalist" that I wish would be silenced.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

How would you silence him?

131 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:22:14am

Islamic court: OK to beat wife if no marks left


A man can beat his wife and kids as long as he leaves no physical marks, the United Arab Emirates' highest court has found.

The judgment came after a man slapped his wife and kicked and slapped his daughter, according to Abu Dhabi's The National newspaper.

In the case debated by the Federal Supreme court, the daughter was bruised on the hand and knee, while the wife's lip and teeth were injured.

According to the court, the injuries showed that the man had over-stepped his rights under Shariah, or Islamic law, the newspaper reported. He had originally been fined 500 United Arab Emirates dirhams ($136), but appealed the case twice.

At 23, the daughter was deemed too old to have been disciplined, the newspaper said.

According to Shariah law, a man can beat his wife and children as long as he has first tries unsuccessfully to discipline them by admonishing and then abstaining from sexual relations with his wife.

132 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:22:29am

re: #122 Obdicut

And you can only do it if you actually see a felony occurring. Trespassing is not a felony.

From Avanti's 111

Hopfinger said, he was surrounded by Miller supporters and security guards and felt threatened, so he pushed one of them away
. …

Laying hands on someone is a crime

133 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:23:02am

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

Jello shots.

Thats post dinner!!!

I want them sober to appreciate my cooking skills

134 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:23:56am

re: #132 sattv4u2

Shoving someone is not felony assault. You are not allowed to restrain someone over a misdemeanor. And if they touched him at all, first, then he didn't initiate.

The job of security is to prevent people from escalating things; here it seems they were the ones escalating.

135 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:24:39am

re: #134 Obdicut

Sorry, I meant felony battery.

136 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:25:01am

re: #109 sattv4u2

BTW ,, I need your expertise

I'm having a dinner party week after next. I'm making one of my specialties. Chicken Parm with home made sauce and pasta, green beans and salad and garlic bread

What do you suggest as a good appetizer?


Proscuitto and melon.

137 APox  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:25:12am

re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar

The first amendment is important. Everyone has the right to be stoopid.

The right to be stupid is different than promoting hate against an entire group of people on a national megaphone. Amirite Helen Thomas?

138 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:25:13am

GGGAAAHHHH

Frakkin TBS

BRB,,, Their poor planning seems to mean to them that I have an "emergency"!!!

139 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:25:53am

re: #125 recusancy

You want him to "smack an ineffectual Congress around"? If he did anything close to that you'd be screaming about heavy handed chicago style politics. You already think he focuses on demonizing rather then governing. His problem is he's been governing rather then politicking.

I disagree.

For example, even on LGF- we spend more time bashing his opponents than actually discussing his policies- and even when we do, it often takes the form of bashing his opponents.

Like I said, I like the guy. But I do believe that if the GOP (who in my estimation have a whole lot less to offer at this point) wins in the upcoming elections it will be no small measure because people aren't buying the 'we'd rather talk about the opposition than about governance'.

Lunatics like Palin and O'Donnell would be cartoon characters and non players if Americans perceived the Democrats as political leaders as opposed to hyperventilating fear mongers.

Just my opinion.

140 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:26:34am

re: #132 sattv4u2

From Avanti's 111

Hopfinger said, he was surrounded by Miller supporters and security guards and felt threatened, so he pushed one of them away
. …

Laying hands on someone is a crime

The best thing to do in that kind of situation is to jab one of the assholes trying to intimidate you in the throat with three fingers...yes, you'll get charged with battery, but afterward you can go up to the guy and say, "you know, for an arrogant asshole, you cry like a little girl"...sometimes, it's worth it.

Wait, no, I'm a pacifist...I don't believe in violence...please disregard the above.

141 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:26:46am

re: #139 researchok

I disagree.

For example, even on LGF- we spend more time bashing his opponents than actually discussing his policies- and even when we do, it often takes the form of bashing his opponents.

Like I said, I like the guy. But I do believe that if the GOP (who in my estimation have a whole lot less to offer at this point) wins in the upcoming elections it will be no small measure because people aren't buying the 'we'd rather talk about the opposition than about governance'.

Lunatics like Palin and O'Donnell would be cartoon characters and non players if Americans perceived the Democrats as political leaders as opposed to hyperventilating fear mongers.

Just my opinion.

So because LGF talks about Palin that means Obama does? Seriously? Is that your logic on this?

142 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:26:56am

re: #138 sattv4u2

GGGAAAHHH

Frakkin TBS

BRB,,, Their poor planning seems to mean to them that I have an "emergency"!!!

Turner Broadcasting. That big city company with a small town profesionalism.

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:27:01am

re: #137 APox

The right to be stupid is different than promoting hate against an entire group of people on a national megaphone. Amirite Helen Thomas?

Were do you draw the line?

144 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:27:55am

re: #139 researchok

It's amazing how, no matter what, it's the Democrats and Obama's fault.

It is not the fault of those who are lying, race-baiting, publishing smears, spending millions on millions of dollars to put out propaganda; that apparently has no effect.

It's just because of something the Democrats are doing. Or not doing.

145 APox  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:28:10am

re: #131 NJDhockeyfan

Islamic court: OK to beat wife if no marks left

Sounds about in line with a hard right religious theocracy. The bible does seem to emphasize the subservient woman and the man of the house.

146 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:29:38am

re: #141 recusancy

So because LGF talks about Palin that means Obama does? Seriously? Is that your logic on this?

Not at all.

My point is that the perception is that the Dem strategy is take the focus off governance.

By the way, as far as Congress is concerned, I'd love to see Obama or any other president beat them up. They are an impediment to any president nowadays.

147 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:30:07am

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

Were do you draw the line?

Where, not were, Geez. PIMF.

148 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:30:14am

re: #135 Obdicut

It seems in all too many cases security guards / body guards / bounty hunters reality is less strict than the law as we can read it. Particularly if the firm has a good relationship with local PD. As a photographer that has had rights and person threatened I had little luck with the authorities when guards overstep. I experienced nothing terribly serious, but some photographers carry or study the photographers rights summary made by an attorney for them.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:30:15am

Racist kook alert...

Louis Farrakhan, Leader of the Nation of Islam: "What Proof Have We Heard from These Wicked Deceivers that It Was Osama Bin Laden" Who Carried Out 9/11?

Louis Farrakhan: Under President Barack Obama, there is the FBI that has been planting agents in mosques around the country, stimulating those who are hateful of Israel, hateful of Jewish people, inspiring them to acts of terror, and then capturing them and putting that on television, as though this is the norm in mosques throughout this country.

[…]

Louis Farrakhan: There have been Jews and Muslims and Christians living together in the Middle East for hundreds of years, and they have not killed each other. This is a recent phenomenon by Europeans who accepted Judaism, and then used their view of this Holy Land as theirs. And since in 1948, the United Nations — mainly European countries, with only Ethiopia representing the black Africa — giving Israel a home in Palestine… So now you have Europeans coming into Palestine… They are not Semitic. They are Europeans.

In Israel, they are persecuting the Semitic Jews, who have been there for thousands of years. They are persecuting the Falasha – the Ethiopian Jews. In fact, just about a month ago, I read that some European Jews did not want darker-skinned Jews to go to school with them. This is not Judaism. This is racism masquerading under the name of Judaism.

[…]

Louis Farrakhan: I put this before the world: Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader of Afghanistan, said to President George W. Bush while Osama Bin Laden was living in Afghanistan: "Show me the proof that this man is guilty of this heinous act, and I will turn him over to you." What proof have we heard from these wicked deceivers that, in fact, it was Osama Bin Laden? As Muslims, we should force them to show us the proof.

150 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:30:16am

re: #146 researchok

I'd love to see Obama or any other president beat them up.

What does this even mean? How would he do this?

151 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:31:03am

Here's an image of the "Drop Zone" security forces protecting Miller. FBI/Blackwater/Marine wannabes.

Image: hopfinger85233originals.jpg

152 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:31:05am

re: #149 NJDhockeyfan

Yep. Farrakhan is a racist tool. You really don't need to put out an alert about that, though: he's always a racist tool.

153 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:32:24am

re: #144 Obdicut

It's amazing how, no matter what, it's the Democrats and Obama's fault.

It is not the fault of those who are lying, race-baiting, publishing smears, spending millions on millions of dollars to put out propaganda; that apparently has no effect.

It's just because of something the Democrats are doing. Or not doing.

That's not what I said. Further, are you suggesting that Americans aren't smart enough to determine who to vote for and are wholly influenced by advertising?

As for negative advertising, are you suggesting that only the GOP doers that?

154 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:32:44am

re: #145 APox

Sounds about in line with a hard right religious theocracy. The bible does seem to emphasize the subservient woman and the man of the house.

The magical balance fairy's tent revival.

155 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:33:05am

re: #146 researchok

Not at all.

My point is that the perception is that the Dem strategy is take the focus off governance.

By the way, as far as Congress is concerned, I'd love to see Obama or any other president beat them up. They are an impediment to any president nowadays.

Sooo.. Obama should come to LGF and tell Charles to stop talking about Palin so he can govern properly? How does this perception change in your mind?

156 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:34:06am

re: #150 Obdicut

What does this even mean? How would he do this?

He let Pelosi, Reid GOP leaders (to a lesser extent) dictate to him.

He is the President of the United States. He needs to publicly indicate when Congress gets in the way.

157 APox  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:34:16am

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

Were do you draw the line?

Oh I don't know when someone says that all terrorists are Muslim as a "fact" after also saying Americans aren't pure because we have our blood mixed with other "species and ethnicities" vs. The "pure bloods" in Europe.

I think I might say, hey, maybe you shouldn't be the journalistic voice for a national news company.

Maybe you could tell me where I should draw the line?

158 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:34:27am

re: #146 researchok

...as far as Congress is concerned... they are an impediment to any president nowadays.

As the founding fathers intended.

Can you imagine how out of control any President could be if congress was a rubber stamp for the executive branch?

159 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:34:56am

re: #154 DaddyG

The magical balance fairy's tent revival.

Not much different then forcing a woman to give birth to a rapists baby regardless of the health and well being of the mother.

160 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:35:17am

The Fascists have landed!

161 Broadway Carl  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:35:26am

re: #116 recusancy
"Although the building was public property, the Miller people had rented it for a private function for invited guests."

It was a Town Hall meeting. If it were a private event, there would have ben a guest list, or tickets to get in, no?

162 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:35:42am

re: #156 researchok

He let Pelosi, Reid GOP leaders (to a lesser extent) dictate to him.

He is the President of the United States. He needs to publicly indicate when Congress gets in the way.

He does and then you scream that he's demonizing.

163 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:36:57am

re: #157 APox

The first amandment is what it is. Stoopid is to be allowed. Can we talk about the Westboro Baptist Church?

164 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:37:06am

re: #156 researchok

He let Pelosi, Reid GOP leaders (to a lesser extent) dictate to him.

He is the President of the United States. He needs to publicly indicate when Congress gets in the way.

So Reid and Pelosi are the obstructions to him getting things done? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! haha


Hahahahahah ahahahahaha!

165 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:37:57am

re: #153 researchok

Further, are you suggesting that Americans aren't smart enough to determine who to vote for and are wholly influenced by advertising?

No. How on earth do you possibly get that from what I said? I'm saying propaganda has an effect. It's really, really weird that people seem to want to argue vehemently that propaganda simply has no effect.

As for negative advertising, are you suggesting that only the GOP doers that?

First of all, I didn't mention 'negative advertising'. Second of all, I certainly didn't say that only the GOP does anything. I have no idea why you always need to create absolute strawmen.

This goes back to our conversation yesterday, where you were refusing to engage with the idea that the GOP is actively using bigotry in a really excessive way in the current election, a way that was not seen from the Democrats over the past eight years. They really are; the amount of lies told by GOP candidates about Cordoba House alone is insane.

And before you ask-- yes, there are Democrats who are doing things that are assholish too, like that tool Grayson and his lie of an ad about his opponent.

However, there are not equivalent amounts of insanity; the GOP, in the current moment, is engaging with bigotry, lies, and propaganda in a way that the Democrats in no way equaled over the past nine years.

166 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:38:24am

re: #156 researchok

He let Pelosi, Reid GOP leaders (to a lesser extent) dictate to him.
/blockquote>

Dictate what to him?


He is the President of the United States. He needs to publicly indicate when Congress gets in the way.

How would he do this? Give a specific example.

167 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:39:26am

re: #159 recusancy

Not much different then forcing a woman to give birth to a rapists baby regardless of the health and well being of the mother.

When the religious right (to whom I am not sympatico) starts blowing people up because they didn't get their religious code installed as the national law then there will be some not so magical balance to discuss.

I am no fan of the theocratic right and they are no friend to me (I'm not the right kind of Christian) but to my knowledge outside of Eric Rudolph and a few other isolated murderers there is no organized effort on behalf of a particular Christian group to overthrow the government by violence and force people to believe by threat of the sword.

The same cannot be said of the Taliban and Al Queda even though they do not represent the broader religion of Islam.

168 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:40:01am

re: #155 recusancy

Sooo.. Obama should come to LGF and tell Charles to stop talking about Palin so he can govern properly? How does this perception change in your mind?

Look, it isn't just here- it's a pattern across the board.

Hey, I don't care, in the sense that there is nothing I can do about. I'm just stating my observations.

Palin, O'Donnell don't write bills, cast no votes and sit on no committees. Making them the focus won't make for better government.

Again, that is my opinion. I realize I am in the minority here and that makes me the spawn of Satan, but I do believe the like the GOP, the Dems can do better.

As I said, I actually like Obama. Save for Christie of NJ, I don't think the GOP has a better candidate.

169 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:40:16am

re: #167 DaddyG

I'm talking about that one specific example that NJD posted.

170 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:43:01am

re: #169 recusancy

I'm talking about that one specific example that NJD posted.

I missed that specific connection. Sorry.

For the record the thought of a religious litmus test for or against a particular law or candidacy makes my teeth ache. I have long felt that any government with the power to prevent abortion also had the power to require abortion.

171 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:43:02am

re: #168 researchok

It doesn't make you the spawn of satin, it just makes you not that bright. You seem to have a tough time distinguishing between what Charles focuses on and what Obama focuses on.

172 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:43:05am

re: #168 researchok

Palin, O'Donnell don't write bills, cast no votes and sit on no committees. Making them the focus won't make for better government.

Do you understand O'Donnell is running for office?


Again, that is my opinion. I realize I am in the minority here and that makes me the spawn of Satan, but I do believe the like the GOP, the Dems can do better.

Get over the martyrdom. Everyone here believes the Democrats can do better. However, saying that the reason that the GOP will pick up seats is because the Democrats are focusing on pointing out that many of the GOP members for office are raving nutjobs is just a gigantic false dichotomy, and a really weird one to claim during an election.

173 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:45:47am

re: #74 researchok

Sorry for the typo- sacred beer reference.

Miller Lite: More taste. Less filling.

Classic old commercial...1st Lite Beer Camping Trip

174 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:45:58am

On the other hand, Republicans probably wish Election Day was today, because they're unsure if some of their candidates -- Joe Miller (whose security guards detained an Alaska reporter), Ken Buck (who compared homosexuality with alcoholism on "Meet the Press"), Rand Paul (who refused to shake opponent Jack Conway's hand after Conway question his religion), and Florida House candidate Allen West (who NBC's Lisa Myers reported has ties to an outlaw motorcycle gang, which West denies) -- can survive another two weeks

bottom line: republicans have a massive historical advantage, but they're blowing it because they're morons

175 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:46:13am

re: #171 recusancy

It doesn't make you the spawn of satin,

satin sheets? satin dolls?

176 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:47:25am

re: #175 ralphieboy

satin sheets? satin dolls?

satin a lap?

177 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:47:50am

re: #175 ralphieboy

satin sheets? satin dolls?

Now you're going to tell me Obama can't spell because I made a typo.

178 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:49:01am

How Obama Screws His Base

I know they’re paying me to make sense of this stuff, but this one’s really beyond me. I mean, put yourselves in their shoes. Let’s say you’re the president of a country whose political opposition is going nuts. On television, pretty much every day, you find yourself compared to Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Satan. A respected leader of the party, much admired in the media, says you are motivated by “Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior,” and that your presidency amounts to “a wonderful con.” Another one says your health plan is designed to murder old folks. And backed up by an estimated $400 million in unaccountable corporate and conservative spending, thanks to the U.S. Supreme Court.

With your own party heading for disaster in the polls, a number of its candidates are running away from you faster than you can say, “You really considered this guy for vice president?” In the meantime, a number of your most devoted supporters are noticing that in your quest to make deals with the same folks—the ones who hate you and the ones who are running away from you—you appear to be letting go of more than a few promises you made to them during your election campaign: promises that, presumably, had something to do with why they supported you in the first place.

179 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:49:07am

re: #177 recusancy

Now you're going to tell me Obama can't spell because I made a typo.

He doesn't need to. He has a teleprompter.
/

180 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:49:49am

re: #172 Obdicut

Do you understand O'Donnell is running for office?


Get over the martyrdom. Everyone here believes the Democrats can do better. However, saying that the reason that the GOP will pick up seats is because the Democrats are focusing on pointing out that many of the GOP members for office are raving nutjobs is just a gigantic false dichotomy, and a really weird one to claim during an election.

I said something similar upstairs... The Dems may be making a tactical error by focusing on national figues that are not running for office at the expense of using bandwidth to promote a constructive agenda.

Palin is the #1 example of who they should be ignoring. No one is going to take a seat from the GOP by running against her.

As far as the crazy candidates they can only be defeated in their district. The DNC used to be the masters of local politics and it looks like they are being distracted by national noise.

181 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:50:18am

re: #177 recusancy

Now you're going to tell me Obama can't spell because I made a typo.

Obama can't spell? (I use "satin" for "satan" all the time, intentionally, to mock the teabaggers who think Obama is a "satin worshipping muslin" - muslin being another intentional typo but with a slightly different texture than satin).

182 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:51:33am

re: #181 darthstar

Obama can't spell? (I use "satin" for "satan" all the time, intentionally, to mock the teabaggers who think Obama is a "satin worshipping muslin" - muslin being another intentional typo but with a slightly different texture than satin).


Ah. A man of the cloth. /

183 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:51:53am

re: #165 Obdicut

You made reference to the millions in advertising- clearly indicating that alone was having a huge impact. I do agree advertising has an impact- but only when the conditions are favorable.

Further, the vast majority of political advertising is negative.

I am the first one to say just how ugly the Cordoba House rhetoric has been. To imply otherwise, that somehow I refuse to acknowledge that is less than honest. What we discussed yesterday had more to do with the causes and symptomatic expressions of racism.

This is not a pissing contest.

My point is clear- it was derived after reading Huffington's position on the Tea Party.

In any event, see this in today's NYT. It is a fascinating article into what we are talking about.

184 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:52:09am

re: #181 darthstar

Obama can't spell? (I use "satin" for "satan" all the time, intentionally, to mock the teabaggers who think Obama is a "satin worshipping muslin" - muslin being another intentional typo but with a slightly different texture than satin).

Dude, it's Stan. Get with the times.

185 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:52:35am

re: #182 DaddyG

Ah. A man of the cloth. /

carful or I will turn a death rayon you

186 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:52:36am

re: #180 DaddyG

Palin is the #1 example of who they should be ignoring. No one is going to take a seat from the GOP by running against her.

But, um, the Democrats really don't spend much time talking about Sarah Palin. I don't know why you think they do.

She is talked about in the context of her endorsement for candidates who are running for office. Which is appropriate.

Everyone realizes two things, right?

A) It's completely normal for them to lose seats in the midterm elections. Completely normal.

B) There is an insane amount of lies, propaganda, and bigoted rhetoric being thrown around this election season, as well as an astonishing amount of money, thanks to the recent Supreme Court decision. I mean, the Cordoba Community Center thing is still going on-- GOP candidates are seriously running on that as an issue. They're running on outright, straightforward bigotry.

187 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:53:23am

re: #177 recusancy

Now you're going to tell me Obama can't spell because I made a typo.

It is deliciously ironic that you misspelled the word Satan when accusing someone of being "not too bright"!

188 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:54:03am

re: #185 ralphieboy

carful or I will turn a death rayon you

You're good today!

I even cotton to your pun!

189 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:54:30am

re: #186 Obdicut


The Tea Party also has the advantage of not ever having had to put its ideology and rhetoric into poicy in the form of actual spending cuts or programs.

They are simply a surface onto which voters are invited to project their image of a hard working honest Washington outsider. It helps a lot of the realy ugly truth about them does not sully the canvas.

oops, another cloth metaphor...

190 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:54:43am

re: #167 DaddyG

When the religious right (to whom I am not sympatico) starts blowing people up because they didn't get their religious code installed as the national law then there will be some not so magical balance to discuss.

I am no fan of the theocratic right and they are no friend to me (I'm not the right kind of Christian) but to my knowledge outside of Eric Rudolph and a few other isolated murderers there is no organized effort on behalf of a particular Christian group to overthrow the government by violence and force people to believe by threat of the sword.

The same cannot be said of the Taliban and Al Queda even though they do not represent the broader religion of Islam.

At the risk of getting into the middle of a religious argument, it's worth pointing out that the Northern Ireland conflict was based in part on religion. Yes, I know it's not the entire story, but I think it's a very valid example of one christian group attempting to impose their religion on another group of people.

We all know that Christianity did a lot of their worst deeds before we were born. Because it happened before our lifetimes that makes it easier to excuse and ignore what happened, after all, it's nothing anyone has direct experience with, right?

Totally unrelated, but in another 10 - 20 years, the Holocaust is going to start falling into the same memory hole. That horrifies and saddens me.

191 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:54:47am

re: #187 rwdflynavy

It is deliciously ironic that you misspelled the word Satan when accusing someone of being "not too bright"!

GAK ,,, you owe me a monitor!!

192 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:55:42am

re: #191 sattv4u2

GAK ,,, you owe me a monitor!!

I have a 21 inch CRT you can have. It weighs approximately 1000lbs.

193 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:56:17am

re: #172 Obdicut

Do you understand O'Donnell is running for office?

Get over the martyrdom. Everyone here believes the Democrats can do better. However, saying that the reason that the GOP will pick up seats is because the Democrats are focusing on pointing out that many of the GOP members for office are raving nutjobs is just a gigantic false dichotomy, and a really weird one to claim during an election.

Do you understand O'Donnell is running for office?

That made me laugh- thanks!

Still, the Dems have been doing that from day one. It's just my opinion that the focus on the nutjobs are a part of the reason the Dems are swimming against the tide.

Truth be told I think the blue dogs could be a real bridge for the Dems. It seems however they have been sidelined/marginalized.

194 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:56:20am

re: #183 researchok

I do agree advertising has an impact- but only when the conditions are favorable.

I have no idea what this means. Can you explain?

I am the first one to say just how ugly the Cordoba House rhetoric has been. To imply otherwise, that somehow I refuse to acknowledge that is less than honest.

You did refuse to acknowledge that the GOP were engaging in the politics of bigotry in a way that the Democrats had not over the past eight years. I'd be very glad if you now accepted that, but you really, really did refuse to acknowledge that.


This is not a pissing contest.

Again-- no clue what you're talking about.

re: #183 researchok

You seriously find that article 'fascinating'?

The easy thing would be to take them at their word. But for liberals, that would be too simple. The Democrats are weeks away from a midterm thumping that wasn’t supposed to happen, and the liberal mind is desperate for a narrative, a storyline, something to ease the pain of losing to a ragtag band of right-wing populists.

How on earth were mid-term losses not supposed to happen? It would be extraordinary if they didn't happen. And the 'liberal mind'? And one person photographing signs-- one ex-Cato Institute intern-- being presented as though it's serious evidence?

Come on.

195 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:56:52am

re: #190 bloodstar

At the risk of getting into the middle of a religious argument, it's worth pointing out that the Northern Ireland conflict was based in part on religion. Yes, I know it's not the entire story, but I think it's a very valid example of one christian group attempting to impose their religion on another group of people.

We all know that Christianity did a lot of their worst deeds before we were born. Because it happened before our lifetimes that makes it easier to excuse and ignore what happened, after all, it's nothing anyone has direct experience with, right?

Totally unrelated, but in another 10 - 20 years, the Holocaust is going to start falling into the same memory hole. That horrifies and saddens me.


But once again, the case of religion being used as a proxy to promote a polical agenda, namely England's political domination of Ireland.

196 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:57:03am

re: #186 Obdicut

But, um, the Democrats really don't spend much time talking about Sarah Palin. I don't know why you think they do.

She is talked about in the context of her endorsement for candidates who are running for office. Which is appropriate.

Everyone realizes two things, right?

A) It's completely normal for them to lose seats in the midterm elections. Completely normal.

B) There is an insane amount of lies, propaganda, and bigoted rhetoric being thrown around this election season, as well as an astonishing amount of money, thanks to the recent Supreme Court decision. I mean, the Cordoba Community Center thing is still going on-- GOP candidates are seriously running on that as an issue. They're running on outright, straightforward bigotry.

On that we are 100% in sync.

197 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:58:25am

re: #195 ralphieboy

But once again, the case of religion being used as a proxy to promote a polical agenda, namely England's political domination of Ireland.

I don't think it's right to declare either the politics or the religion the proxy. They were both motivators. Some actors in the conflict were more motivated by religion, some more motivated by politics.

198 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:58:29am

re: #182 DaddyG

Ah. A man of the cloth. /

Sweet...I'll use that in the future.

199 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:58:42am

re: #196 researchok

On that we are 100% in sync.

You are 100% in sync with "But, um, the Democrats really don't spend much time talking about Sarah Palin. I don't know why you think they do."?

200 recusancy  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:59:15am

re: #197 Obdicut

I don't think it's right to declare either the politics or the religion the proxy. They were both motivators. Some actors in the conflict were more motivated by religion, some more motivated by politics.

Tribalism.

201 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:59:58am

re: #194 Obdicut

I have no idea what this means. Can you explain?

If Obama were doing a bang up job, the ads would be ineffective.

You did refuse to acknowledge that the GOP were engaging in the politics of bigotry in a way that the Democrats had not over the past eight years. I'd be very glad if you now accepted that, but you really, really did refuse to acknowledge that.

I do acknowledge that some GOP candidates are exploiting racism. It is not however a party plank. Not every GOP member is a racist.

Again-- no clue what you're talking about.

re: #183 researchok

You seriously find that article 'fascinating'?

How on earth were mid-term losses not supposed to happen? It would be extraordinary if they didn't happen. And the 'liberal mind'? And one person photographing signs-- one ex-Cato Institute intern-- being presented as though it's serious evidence?

Why not? If political affiliation determines credibility, why should I believe you? Are you saying all conservatives are tainted liars?

Come on.

202 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:00:19am

re: #195 ralphieboy

But once again, the case of religion being used as a proxy to promote a polical agenda, namely England's political domination of Ireland.

Agreed, and I think the broader point you can make is that Religion by itself is rarely dangerous, it's when religion is mixed in with a desire or effort at governance that it becomes a volatile and lethal mix.

203 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:00:23am

re: #190 bloodstar Wow. Please do not think I confuse the IRA and the Catholic Protestant split in Europe or pre-20th century Christianity with the modern religious right.

Christianity in some of its many political and religious guises has commited some inexcusable atrocities. Some branches of Islam are currently doing the same. My whole point was that the modern American religious right political movement (while not the poster children for tolerence and freedom) are not commiting the same kind of atrocities that the Taliban are and therefore the magical balance fairy is off target when comparing the two. Similarities yes. Equivelence no.

204 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:01:12am

re: #197 Obdicut

I don't think it's right to declare either the politics or the religion the proxy. They were both motivators. Some actors in the conflict were more motivated by religion, some more motivated by politics.

The Scotch Presbyterian settlers were but there by England to secure their hold on the island.

205 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:02:26am

re: #202 bloodstar

Agreed, and I think the broader point you can make is that Religion by itself is rarely dangerous, it's when religion is mixed in with a desire or effort at governance that it becomes a volatile and lethal mix.

Religion is a political entity. Faith by itself is rarely dangerous. Religion is a way of corralling people into group-think.

206 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:02:27am

I have to get ready for a job I despise. Thinking about breaking the law to open a stand in the front yard. See ya'll tonight.

207 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:02:52am

0

208 researchok  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:03:03am

And on that happy note I have to leave for a while.

Feel free to administer the beatings at will.
/

Later!

209 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:03:06am

re: #175 ralphieboy

satin sheets? satin dolls?

210 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:03:18am

re: #178 negativ

How Obama Screws His Base

Boo-Freaking-Hoo. "We only got 70% of what we wanted so we're taking our toys and not voting this year". Alterman is an idiot. The dems aren't going to lose the house for not doing something, they're going to lose it because of what they did do. TARP, Auto bailouts, HCR, and the Stimulus, none of which is popular. They knew this was coming when they cast their votes...

"The difference between now and 1994 is that you have me!" - B. Obama

211 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:03:34am

re: #204 ralphieboy

The Scotch Presbyterian settlers were but there by England to secure their hold on the island.


...and if James had send their horses and property they wouldn't have been stranded with no means of support. The Scottish weren't so thrilled to be there either. But it did get them out of the borderlands between England and Scotland. James was going for a two'fer.

212 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:03:50am

re: #201 researchok

Why not? If political affiliation determines credibility, why should I believe you? Are you saying all conservatives are tainted liars?

Why on earth do you keep trying to make absolute statements out of what I say? It's really, really bizarre.

I am rejecting the anecdotal evidence of a single person who collected data unscientifically, and noting that they have a bias.

How on earth you try to turn that into me saying all conservatives are tainted liars I have no clue. It's bullshit.


I do acknowledge that some GOP candidates are exploiting racism. It is not however a party plank. Not every GOP member is a racist.

Do you acknowledge that the GOP is using racism and bigotry to an extent that far, far, far exceeds the Democrats over the past nine years?


If Obama were doing a bang up job, the ads would be ineffective.

And if frogs had AK-47s, French cuisine would be different. But the propaganda being thrown around is not about actual failings of Obama: it is about lies. It does not depend on Obama's real failures or real successes. It is a fictional narrative.

213 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:05:29am

re: #209 NJDhockeyfan


214 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:05:45am

re: #205 darthstar

Religion is a political entity. Faith by itself is rarely dangerous. Religion is a way of corralling people into group-think.


That is a pretty cynical view that ignores the possibility of true belief on the part of religious leaders as well as followers. It also ignores the great amount of good done in the world in the name of a higher power.

215 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:05:57am

re: #204 ralphieboy

The Scotch Presbyterian settlers were but there by England to secure their hold on the island.

First of all, it's Scottish or Scots, not "Scotch".

Second of all, that's a very compressed history of what happened over a long period of time. And you're taking away the agency of the Scots by seeing them as just pawns of the English; yes, England wanted people who were politically and religiously aligned with England, but that doesn't mean that the Scots didn't have their own reasons for wanting to be there.

216 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:05:58am

re: #203 DaddyG

Wow. Please do not think I confuse the IRA and the Catholic Protestant split in Europe or pre-20th century Christianity with the modern religious right.

Christianity in some of its many political and religious guises has commited some inexcusable atrocities. Some branches of Islam are currently doing the same. My whole point was that the modern American religious right political movement (while not the poster children for tolerence and freedom) are not commiting the same kind of atrocities that the Taliban are and therefore the magical balance fairy is off target when comparing the two. Similarities yes. Equivelence no.

I know, and sorry if I seemed to imply that you were. ralphieboy made a good point that I think helps futher define my thoughts and I'll throw out a hypothesis:

The current Religious Right in America will become more like Islam in their methodology and violence as their desire to merge governance and religion together fuses their belief that they are the only right religion with the belief that it is their right and duty to impose those beliefs on others.

There isn't an equivalence right now, but I'll put forth that there will be as the religious right continues down their path to extremism.

217 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:06:25am

re: #210 RogueOne

Boo-Freaking-Hoo. "We only got 70% of what we wanted so we're taking our toys and not voting this year". Alterman is an idiot. The dems aren't going to lose the house for not doing something, they're going to lose it because of what they did do. TARP, Auto bailouts, HCR, and the Stimulus, none of which is popular. They knew this was coming when they cast their votes...

"The difference between now and 1994 is that you have me!" - B. Obama

Obama: Dems are in trouble because Americans aren't thinking clearly

218 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:06:50am

Ugh. I had to look at Atlas Hurls this morning and found these two comments on this stupid thread:

The Racist:

two cents said...

yet another unworthy black man reprehensibly "dancing" on GREAT HISTORY.

one should fully expect the Nobel piece prize comission to select him based on "what he might do".
Reply Monday, October 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM

The Moron:

sujith said...

How Spain ended jeehad1 Menace ........ in Spain .

They gave muslims 3 choice

1) Either c0nvert to christianity
2) Or leave spain
3) Face death

Guess what , most c0nverted to christianity
others fled...end of jeehad1 menace in spain.

From 1470 till 1970 there was no muslim in spain.

Then liberal f00ls in spain allowed muslims from morrocco to immigrate....
...slowly as muslim population began to rise there was recurring
tension with local inhabitants...then the jeehad1 virus did its first
religious duty and exploded big bomb k11ing 191 and injuring
1400 in spain.

And until the Spanish morons and others learn from their history it
will be return of cordoba empire again.
Reply Monday, October 18, 2010 at 11:36 AM

219 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:08:17am

re: #218 Gus 802

I am really, really, really getting sick of the modern tendency to whitewash Christian behavior towards Muslims and Jews during the middle ages.

220 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:09:06am

Otherwise Joe Miller is a double talking puke. Despite his troubles, Ted Stevens is miles above him. Come election day, good luck Alaska.

221 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:09:33am

re: #214 DaddyG

That is a pretty cynical view that ignores the possibility of true belief on the part of religious leaders as well as followers. It also ignores the great amount of good done in the world in the name of a higher power.

True belief simply means following the teachings of Christ. Love your neighbor, follow the golden rule, don't be an asshole. It doesn't mean use scripture as a legal argument against gay marriage, abortion, or capital gains taxes.

222 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:10:15am

re: #218 Gus 802

That is right up there with the "they can build mosques here when Christians can build churches in Saudi Arabia" meme

223 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:10:29am

So looking for some input.

Today I'm starting to volunteer at a local elementary school. They just put in a school garden (veggie mostly) this past spring. So far it's been a great success and many teachers have been using it in their classes. Many kids love it and some so much that they asked the teachers to start an after school garden club because they want to do more. So I've volunteered to help out with this new club.
Today is the first meeting and we're going to talk about what sorts of things to do. The thing is that winter is coming on so there isn't a whole lot to do in terms of planting and growing outside. (obviously). So I'm looking for ideas for things to do during the snowy months that are related. Closer to the spring I can see teaching and helping with the planning for spring. Possibly things like building some cold frames and maybe some trellises.

Just thought I'd ask here if anyone has any ideas on other things. More minds are better then one.

224 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:10:48am

re: #219 Obdicut

I am really, really, really getting sick of the modern tendency to whitewash Christian behavior towards Muslims and Jews during the middle ages.

Yep. The idiot doesn't mention that it applied to Muslims, Jews and everybody else. He also forgot a couple of other options they provided two of which included a) being tortured and/or b) being imprisoned.

225 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:11:54am

re: #221 darthstar

True belief simply means following the teachings of Christ. Love your neighbor, follow the golden rule, don't be an asshole. It doesn't mean use scripture as a legal argument against gay marriage, abortion, or capital gains taxes.

Jesus was a statist and would be perfectly fine using his ideology against homosexual marriage, abortion, or any combination of the 7 deadly sins.

226 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:12:39am

re: #216 bloodstar

I know, and sorry if I seemed to imply that you were. ralphieboy made a good point that I think helps futher define my thoughts and I'll throw out a hypothesis:

The current Religious Right in America will become more like Islam in their methodology and violence as their desire to merge governance and religion together fuses their belief that they are the only right religion with the belief that it is their right and duty to impose those beliefs on others.

There isn't an equivalence right now, but I'll put forth that there will be as the religious right continues down their path to extremism.

Agreed. Thank God for the Constitution and our Representative Democracy. I doubt the so-cons will get much further than they already have in imposing their political doctrine. They err in thinking the current political trends are support of their agenda and if they push too far they will experience serious blowback from a largely independent and somewhat Libertarian American electorate.

227 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:13:12am

re: #190 bloodstar

At the risk of getting into the middle of a religious argument, it's worth pointing out that the Northern Ireland conflict was based in part on religion. Yes, I know it's not the entire story, but I think it's a very valid example of one christian group attempting to impose their religion on another group of people.

um... uh... no, not really.

Religion in that particular conflict is really just a proxy for ethnic/nationalist arguments about whether those six counties should rightfully be part of the UK or Eire. There's a few hundred years' worth of background why most of the people on one side are Catholic and most of the people on the other side are Protestant, but religion itself isn't what they're disputing.

228 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:13:48am

re: #224 Gus 802

Yep. The idiot doesn't mention that it applied to Muslims, Jews and everybody else. He also forgot a couple of other options they provided two of which included a) being tortured and/or b) being imprisoned.


And one of the reasons for Spain's rapid decline as a world power was that it lost its Moorish and Jewish communities, and along with it a good share of its entrepreneurial and educated professional classes.

229 stevemcg  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:14:26am

re: #221 darthstar

True belief simply means following the teachings of Christ. Love your neighbor, follow the golden rule, don't be an asshole. It doesn't mean use scripture as a legal argument against gay marriage, abortion, or capital gains taxes.

I have only heard this one time, but it stuck for all these years. In high school theology, Father Handjob (if we only knew...heh) said the most important words of Jesus were the Beatitudes. They differentiate the New Testament from the Old. I don't know anybody who knows all 8 of them, but everybody knows the point of them. "Don't be an asshole" isn't expressly a Beatitude, but it's sort of covered in the penumbra of them.

230 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:14:34am

From the No Shit, Sherlock pages of the Wall Street Journal:

Facebook in Privacy Breach

231 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:15:06am

re: #221 darthstar

True belief simply means following the teachings of Christ. Love your neighbor, follow the golden rule, don't be an asshole. It doesn't mean use scripture as a legal argument against gay marriage, abortion, or capital gains taxes.


When religion is about me and us it works much better than any attempt to make it about you and them. In that I agree.

232 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:15:34am

re: #230 negativ


I have been keeping a very low profile there lately, basically not posting anything i would not want to share with the entire rest of the world.

233 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:16:41am

re: #193 researchok

the blue dogs could be a real bridge for the Dems. It seems however they have been sidelined/marginalized.

Because Boehner and McConnell don't want a bridge. They just keep shrieking "you have huge majorities, pass it yourselves, we want no part of any of it," so the Blue Dogs end up being the opposition that Pelosi and Reid have to compromise with.

234 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:16:42am

re: #223 Jadespring
You could build some hoop houses. Use PVC pipe and clear painter's tarp (the thickest you can find) from the hardware store. Very cheap.
It's a little late in the season to get stuff started but if you buy an assortment of Kale, mustard greens, collard greens, and chard you can probably get stuff going.

235 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:17:31am

re: #228 ralphieboy

And one of the reasons for Spain's rapid decline as a world power was that it lost its Moorish and Jewish communities, and along with it a good share of its entrepreneurial and educated professional classes.

Many of which found their way to Mexico where again many were forced to convert to Catholicism and then later facing the Mexican Inquisition. (In a nutshell that is.)

236 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:17:37am

re: #225 RogueOne

Jesus was a statist and would be perfectly fine using his ideology against homosexual marriage, abortion, or any combination of the 7 deadly sins.

God, you make him sound like a dick.

237 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:18:20am

re: #223 Jadespring

So looking for some input.

Today I'm starting to volunteer at a local elementary school. They just put in a school garden (veggie mostly) this past spring. So far it's been a great success and many teachers have been using it in their classes. Many kids love it and some so much that they asked the teachers to start an after school garden club because they want to do more. So I've volunteered to help out with this new club.
Today is the first meeting and we're going to talk about what sorts of things to do. The thing is that winter is coming on so there isn't a whole lot to do in terms of planting and growing outside. (obviously). So I'm looking for ideas for things to do during the snowy months that are related. Closer to the spring I can see teaching and helping with the planning for spring. Possibly things like building some cold frames and maybe some trellises.

Just thought I'd ask here if anyone has any ideas on other things. More minds are better then one.

Your idea of building infrastructure is great. I'd also get some seed catalogues, garden magazines, etc. and have the kids start submitting designs for gardens and ideas on what to grow. Even some dixie cups and seeds could allow you to start some plants for transplanting in the spring.

Now is the perfect time to transplant trees if you can get some donated.

238 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:19:39am

re: #223 Jadespring


And you could (*gasp*) squeeze in the occasional little bit about nutrition and diet - or would that be socialistic do-gooding?

239 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:19:51am

re: #228 ralphieboy

And one of the reasons for Spain's rapid decline as a world power was that it lost its Moorish and Jewish communities, and along with it a good share of its entrepreneurial and educated professional classes.


So the lesson here is that you do want the Jews to control the banking industry. //

240 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:20:13am

re: #213 ralphieboy

[Video]

241 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:20:22am

re: #236 darthstar

God, you make him sound like a dick.

Short silver hair parted from the side. Rectangular wire rimmed glasses. About 6 feet tall. Member of the House GOP.

//

242 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:20:42am

re: #229 stevemcg

"Don't be an asshole" isn't expressly a Beatitude, but it's sort of covered in the penumbra of them.

I cannot wait to use that in Sunday School. /

243 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:21:05am

re: #239 DaddyG

So the lesson here is that you do want the Jews to control the banking industry. //


As long as they are controlling all the other countries' banks, you need a few on your side

///

244 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:21:10am

re: #234 Killgore Trout

You could build some hoop houses. Use PVC pipe and clear painter's tarp (the thickest you can find) from the hardware store. Very cheap.
It's a little late in the season to get stuff started but if you buy an assortment of Kale, mustard greens, collard greens, and chard you can probably get stuff going.

Yeah unfortunately it's really too late to start anything where I am. Snow could come any week now and I can't see getting a hoophouse organized in the next couple of weeks happening. Working on a hoop house to get an early start next year could work though. Maybe I should look at some indoor growing ideas, like micro-greens.

245 stevemcg  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:22:23am

Get a load of this:
[Link: theclicker.todayshow.com...]

Then check the comments at the bottom.

246 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:22:48am

re: #229 stevemcg

I have only heard this one time, but it stuck for all these years. In high school theology, Father Handjob (if we only knew...heh) said the most important words of Jesus were the Beatitudes. They differentiate the New Testament from the Old. I don't know anybody who knows all 8 of them, but everybody knows the point of them. "Don't be an asshole" isn't expressly a Beatitude, but it's sort of covered in the penumbra of them.

Found 'em...Matthew 5:

Wen he seez lotz kittehz, he climbz tree. His BFz climbz tree too.

2 He sez hai and he teaches teh kittehs, he sez:

3 Cheezburgrz 4 teh n00b kittehs, theys can has teh Ceiling.

4 Cheezburgrz 4 teh sad kittehs, theys can has petting.

5 Cheezburgrz 4 teh m33k kittehs, theys can has teh urfs.

6 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs who sez "I can has gud, plz?", theys can has it.

7 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat no pwns, Ceiling Cat no pwnz0rz thems.

8 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs wiff purr in hartz, theys can sees Ceiling Cat.

9 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat sez shhhhh!, Ceiling Cat is liek "u mai kittehs."

10 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat gets pwned by otehrs fur haz gud, theys can has teh Ceiling too.

11 Cheezburgrz if otehrs be liek "DO NOT WANT" 2 u, an liez abt u, coz of meh.

12 B teh happys n party, coz u can has cookiez n cakez in Ceiling. Iz liek wen theys been liek "DO NOT WANT" to all teh holee kittehs b4.

247 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:22:52am

re: #238 ralphieboy

And you could (*gasp*) squeeze in the occasional little bit about nutrition and diet - or would that be socialistic do-gooding?


The Boy Scout Gardening merit badge includes learning about the nutritional value of various foods they grow.

The BSA are socialist do gooders! /

248 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:22:57am

re: #240 sagehen

[Video]

Miles Davis - Black Satin

249 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:23:00am

re: #239 DaddyG

So the lesson here is that you do want the Jews to control the banking industry. //

And Rick Sanchez' CNN.//

250 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:23:03am

re: #236 darthstar

God, you make him sound like a dick.

jesus is just alright with me....but I prefer truth in advertising. There are some scenarios I just don't get, like gay clergy. It's almost like they've never read their own damn manual. I tend to stay out of it since if the belief of an after-life helps people sleep at night it's really none of my business.

251 Kronocide  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:23:38am

re: #226 DaddyG

Agreed. Thank God for the Constitution and our Representative Democracy. I doubt the so-cons will get much further than they already have in imposing their political doctrine. They err in thinking the current political trends are support of their agenda and if they push too far they will experience serious blowback from a largely independent and somewhat Libertarian American electorate.

While much of this current dark sentiment is bubbling up from below after building for the last few decades, we also have a crazy bad economy and a black man in the white house. It's hard for many to deal with it. I'm not diminishing the evil of it but acknowledging some facts. I'm hoping it burns itself out like a huge forest fire that burns to the edge of the forest then runs out of fuel.

The GOP tapped into this sentiment and will pay dearly in addition to GOP'ers who are outright racist and/or are theocratic.

252 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:25:18am

re: #250 RogueOne

Jesus never said anything about homosexuals. So why are you confused by gay clergy?

253 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:25:39am

re: #238 ralphieboy

And you could (*gasp*) squeeze in the occasional little bit about nutrition and diet - or would that be socialistic do-gooding?

Well the teachers I've talked too so far say that one of the best thing that's happened since the kids have actually grown some things is that they are way more interested in eating them and trying out different ways of eating them.

My conclusion is thus---tomatoes and beans are socialistic by proxy. ;)

254 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:26:53am

re: #227 sagehen

um... uh... no, not really.

Religion in that particular conflict is really just a proxy for ethnic/nationalist arguments about whether those six counties should rightfully be part of the UK or Eire. There's a few hundred years' worth of background why most of the people on one side are Catholic and most of the people on the other side are Protestant, but religion itself isn't what they're disputing.

Understood, and I'll be happy to concede I am likely off base with my point on Ireland. It's just that it's was the first conflict that came to mind that was tangentially related to the topic DaddyG had brought up.

255 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:27:33am

re: #252 Obdicut

Jesus never said anything about homosexuals. So why are you confused by gay clergy?

Study it for yourself and see why that's a silly question.

256 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:28:04am

On that note, now that I've insulted christians I have to bail out! See you people!

257 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:28:18am

re: #245 stevemcg

Get a load of this:
[Link: theclicker.todayshow.com...]

Then check the comments at the bottom.

Damn. I looked at a couple of other different articles on this and those are being trolled too.

This country. I tell ya'.

258 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:29:06am

re: #253 Jadespring

Well the teachers I've talked too so far say that one of the best thing that's happened since the kids have actually grown some things is that they are way more interested in eating them and trying out different ways of eating them.

My conclusion is thus---tomatoes and beans are socialistic by proxy. ;)

We had many neighborhood mothers thrilled with us after sending their kids home with vegetables from our garden. It was the first time some of them volunteered to eat their veggies.

Here is an idea for a winter garden related activity:

Go ice fishing with the class. Have them take some peas and line the edge of the fishing hole. When a fish comes to the surface to take a pea they can grab it!

259 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:29:26am

re: #223 Jadespring

So I'm looking for ideas for things to do during the snowy months that are related. Closer to the spring I can see teaching and helping with the planning for spring. Possibly things like building some cold frames and maybe some trellises.

Just thought I'd ask here if anyone has any ideas on other things. More minds are better then one.

Start potted seedlings indoors. And maybe do some hydroponics projects?

(p.s. Strawberries. You can never go wrong with strawberries.)

260 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:29:46am

re: #256 RogueOne

On that note, now that I've insulted christians I have to bail out! See you people!


That's ok- we have come to expect that kind of behavior from damned heathens. //

Have a good one.

261 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:29:52am

Sharron Angle continues to try and secure the Hispanic vote (for Reid):

"So that’s what we want is a secure and sovereign nation and, you know, I don’t know that all of you are Latino. Some of you look a little more Asian to me. I don’t know that. [Note: it's the Hispanic Student Union. The whole room is Hispanic teenagers.] What we know, what we know about ourselves is that we are a melting pot in this country. My grandchildren are evidence of that. I’m evidence of that. I’ve been called the first Asian legislator in our Nevada State Assembly."
262 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:30:42am

re: #238 ralphieboy

And you could (*gasp*) squeeze in the occasional little bit about nutrition and diet - or would that be socialistic do-gooding?

On a more serious note. I know that one of the things that some of the science classes are doing are using the garden as a jumping off point to look at the science of nutrition and the chemical/biological makeup of the plants. Not just in relation to how they grow but in relation to what happens when it goes into are bodies.

263 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:30:47am

re: #255 RogueOne

Study it for yourself and see why that's a silly question.

That's just dodging the question, Rogue. I know the New Testament quite well. Paul talks about effeminate men once-- Jesus never says anything negative about gay people, at all.

So, again, why are you confused by gay clergy?

264 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:30:57am

Here we go again.


Two fatally shot at Tennessee post office, police say

[Updated at 12:02 p.m.] A Lauderdale County Sheriff's Office dispatcher tells CNN that two women, both postal workers, were killed in the Henning shooting.

[Updated at 11:30 a.m.] Two people were killed Monday at the post office in Henning, Tennessee, the Lauderdale County Sheriff's Office said.

Local and state police are on the scene with the FBI.

The sheriff's office would not confirm there was a shooting, but CNN affiliate WMC-TV in Memphis reported two female victims were killed in a shooting that was reported to police about 9 a.m.

265 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:32:05am

re: #263 Obdicut
Paul was quite opinionated about many things. I think you can tell a lot about a person by asking which of the Gospels they prefer.

266 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:32:10am

re: #244 Jadespring

Yeah unfortunately it's really too late to start anything where I am. Snow could come any week now and I can't see getting a hoophouse organized in the next couple of weeks happening. Working on a hoop house to get an early start next year could work though. Maybe I should look at some indoor growing ideas, like micro-greens.

Micro-veg

You could also make sprouting jars

The sprouting jars are great for kids because it's very quick. Within a week each kid could eat a salad they grew themselves.

267 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:32:42am

re: #223 Jadespring

So looking for some input.

Today I'm starting to volunteer at a local elementary school. They just put in a school garden (veggie mostly) this past spring. So far it's been a great success and many teachers have been using it in their classes. Many kids love it and some so much that they asked the teachers to start an after school garden club because they want to do more. So I've volunteered to help out with this new club.
Today is the first meeting and we're going to talk about what sorts of things to do. The thing is that winter is coming on so there isn't a whole lot to do in terms of planting and growing outside. (obviously). So I'm looking for ideas for things to do during the snowy months that are related. Closer to the spring I can see teaching and helping with the planning for spring. Possibly things like building some cold frames and maybe some trellises.

Just thought I'd ask here if anyone has any ideas on other things. More minds are better then one.

If you have the sun exposure and warmth stuff like herbs could probably be done indoors in a relatively small amount of space. Time could also be used in investigating ways to preserve herbs or produce over the winter as an educational exercise.

268 Kronocide  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:34:11am

Jade, maybe try and setup an indoor aquaponic rig with fish and strawberries. You got fish, and you got fruit, the kids will dig it and learn a lot about the chemistry of gardening and how it intertwines with nutrition.

269 gehazi  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:34:53am

re: #225 RogueOne

Jesus was a statist and would be perfectly fine using his ideology against homosexual marriage, abortion, or any combination of the 7 deadly sins.

Jesus was a statist and would have been politically active against moral degradation? What Bible are you reading?

Hmm, I wonder why he barely made any political statements and never even made the whiff of a suggestion that his disciples seek to legislate morality through the political process.

The few times Jesus actually does make political references, he really doesn't seem to care about political power, deflecting questions about taxation as being irrelevant, cutting through the political/ethnic tensions of the day to actually get down in the dirt and help people, or stating in no uncertain terms: "My kingdom is not of this world."

But oh that's right, you're talking about that other asshole, Supply Side Jesus. The only one the Tea Party seems to recognize. The one that couldn't be more different than the living breathing saving Jesus.

270 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:34:54am

re: #266 Killgore Trout

re: #267 oaktree

Great ideas.

Thanks so much everyone.

271 DaddyG  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:35:03am

re: #267 oaktree

Mandrake Root.

272 gehazi  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:36:08am

re: #265 DaddyG

Paul was quite opinionated about many things. I think you can tell a lot about a person by asking which of the Gospels they prefer.

Thankfully, he likes to say when he's expressing a personal opinion rather than an authoritative on that should apply to the entire Church.

273 Jadespring  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:36:18am

re: #268 BigPapa

That would be really cool.

274 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:36:27am

re: #264 Gus 802

I know I remembered Henning:


The Battle of Fort Pillow during the Civil War, a Confederate victory, took place near Henning. Here, nearly 200 innocent blacks serving the Union Army were allegedly massacred by Confederates under the command of General Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Looks like these days it's a poverty-stricken, mainly black town.

275 sagehen  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:36:37am

re: #254 bloodstar

Understood, and I'll be happy to concede I am likely off base with my point on Ireland. It's just that it's was the first conflict that came to mind that was tangentially related to the topic DaddyG had brought up.

How about... the whole reason we have a Rhode Island is because Roger Smith was declared HERETIC!! and exiled by the Massachussetts colony. Some people went with him, and lo they found(ed) Providence.

276 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:38:41am

re: #275 sagehen

How about... the whole reason we have a Rhode Island is because Roger Smith was declared HERETIC!! and exiled by the Massachussetts colony. Some people went with him, and lo they found(ed) Providence.

So a two state solution does work.

277 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:39:26am

re: #274 Obdicut

I know I remembered Henning:

Looks like these days it's a poverty-stricken, mainly black town.

"Roots" author Alex Haley is from there.

278 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:46:32am

re: #264 Gus 802

Witness is claiming it was a robbery.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

What stupid fuckers hold up a post office? They have less money than banks and it's a bigger crime. Morons.

279 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:52:51am

re: #278 Obdicut

Witness is claiming it was a robbery.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

What stupid fuckers hold up a post office? They have less money than banks and it's a bigger crime. Morons.

So it would not have been a "random" shooting. Two dead for what? Possibly a couple of 20s.

280 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:53:39am

re: #278 Obdicut

Witness is claiming it was a robbery.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

What stupid fuckers hold up a post office? They have less money than banks and it's a bigger crime. Morons.

Psycho Philatelists?

281 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:54:19am

re: #278 Obdicut

Witness is claiming it was a robbery.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

What stupid fuckers hold up a post office? They have less money than banks and it's a bigger crime. Morons.

But it's taking money back from the *government*.

/

282 Kragar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:59:08am

Gettin' Ugly In Kentucky: Rand Paul, TV Ads, and Honor

The Kentucky Senate race has always been sort of ugly, but over the weekend it got uglier.

During a televised debate Sunday night, Rand Paul told Democratic Attorney General Jack Conway that he demeans the state; Conway, in turn, brought up Paul's alleged pot-fueled kidnapping escapade. Paul refused to shake Conway's hand. From TPM's Evan McMorris-Santoro:


Republican nominee Rand Paul lashed out at his Democratic opponent, Jack Conway -- even refusing to shake his hand at the end of the debate -- saying to Conway at one point "you demean the state of Kentucky."

For his part, Conway was not afraid to climb down into the muck and take Paul on. He accused Paul of "joining a group known for mocking Christianity" while the Republican was a student at Baylor University and called on Paul to explain why he once "tied a woman up and asked her to worship a false idol."

And Paul, the AP reports, says he may skip the next debate.

283 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:01:24am

re: #282 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gettin' Ugly In Kentucky: Rand Paul, TV Ads, and Honor

It was ugly before in Kentucky. Jim Bunning wasn't exactly a pleasant person to work with in the Senate.

284 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:01:55am

re: #4 freetoken

On the meeting itself, some people are reporting what Miller said, which sounds like par for the Tea Partiers:

If the report is true, that has to be one of the dumbest things to have been said about immigration.

Especially because East Germany was actualy Communist, you know the thing they say Obama is.

285 jaunte  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:02:41am

re: #261 darthstar

"I’ve been called the first Asian legislator in our Nevada State Assembly."


Anyone know the story there?

286 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:03:28am

re: #282 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gettin' Ugly In Kentucky: Rand Paul, TV Ads, and Honor

I don't like that ad. The "Aqua Buddha" stuff was OK but the rest of it is playing on religious themes opposite of what one would expect.

287 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:03:43am

How would it be trespassing? It seems like Mr. Miller suffers from the same trait of his patron, Mrs. Palin who too refuses to ask questions. Seriously this is really messed up and I hope it backfires on Miller.

288 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:04:59am

re: #285 jaunte

Anyone know the story there?


Ralston says she was addressing a Hispanic student union. Angle's not all there, and I suspect she's on heavy medication.

[Link: www.lasvegassun.com...]

289 JeffFX  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:05:19am

re: #282 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Looks like the people lose either way that election goes.

290 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:05:47am

re: #284 HappyWarrior

Especially because East Germany was actualy Communist, you know the thing they say Obama is.

I believe he was talking about East Germany in the present tense.

291 jaunte  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:06:22am

re: #288 darthstar
She is very strange.


That last comment, about her being called the first Asian legislator? I have no idea what she is talking about.


Maybe she'll explain at some point.

292 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:07:06am

re: #287 HappyWarrior

How would it be trespassing? It seems like Mr. Miller suffers from the same trait of his patron, Mrs. Palin who too refuses to ask questions. Seriously this is really messed up and I hope it backfires on Miller.

err answer questions.

293 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:07:49am

re: #290 darthstar

I believe he was talking about East Germany in the present tense.

Oh good catch. Seriously the guy can't be this stupid to actually be praising the idea of the Berlin Wall. Can he?

294 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:14:18am

re: #10 Scarecrow237

I'm not surprised. Private security firms, uniformed with badges, guns and tazers, don't have to Mirandize anyone, they don't have to have warrants, but they can place someone in custody until the real police arrive, removing the person as a "threat". More, in certain places, private security cannot be held accountable for the time the person is held, that is, they are sheltered from law suits (or prosecution) because holding suspects is part of their job, and if they have held you by mistake, too bad for you! I'm sure we will begin to see more private security outfits like this at rally's where disruptive, unwanted, troublemakers, such as reporters, may show up.

I used to work as a security guard for Pinkerton (before they were bought by Securitas a decade ago)...Tennessee law is that private guards, armed and unarmed, only have the power to arrest someone if they either witnessed or have hard evidence of a felony, in which case they can hold someone for the cops. It wouldn't surprise me if Alaska law was similar.

Miller and his goons have mostly likely fucked up, putting themselves on the hook for false arrest.

295 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:16:44am

re: #78 RogueOne

Stabbed — during anger-management class
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

..so she pulled out a 3" knife and stabbed her.

Irony is dripping from that story...

296 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:18:41am

Incoming news on Joe Miller's whacked out security!

Joe Miller’s Security
Submitted by Brian on October 18, 2010 - 11:14am

From what we learned on Sunday when Alaska Republican Joe Miller's campaign arrested a reporter, Joe Miller has little respect for the First Amendment right of journalists to ask questions, or the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition against arrests without warrants. Of course Joe Miller has already said that he will no longer answer questions from journalists, but arresting them is a new low.

Unfortunately, Joe Miller’s continued disrespect for the Constitution doesn’t seem all that surprising: Writing for the Alaska blog The Mudflats, Shannyn Moore reports that Miller pointed to communist East Germany as his inspiration on immigration policy: “When asked about illegal immigration, Miller offered up: Build a wall! ‘If the East Germans could do it, so can we!’” Moore also gives us a glimpse into Joe Miller’s security guards, the DropZone, which prominently displays the notorious Obama-Joker poster and links to the bizarre conspiracy-theory radio host Alex Jones’s website infowars.com, best known for promoting the claim that FEMA is building concentration camps inside the US.

The only thing more extreme than the weather and wildlife in Alaska is the politics. The Drop Zone was a sponsor of Palin apologist and former radio host, Eddie Burke. The DZ bragged to patrons about their security squad being littered with former Blackwater operatives. Not disclosing full names and a preference for cash transactions were commonplace. A poster of President Obama as the Joker hangs in their front window.

Continues.

297 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:21:19am

Daily Kos
Meet Joe Miller's Thugs: Drop Zone Security

by Bonsai66
Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 01:12:32 AM PDT

If you went to bed early tonight, you may have missed one of the most wonderful gifts that the Teabaggers have ever given to the Democrats: Alaskan GOP Senate candidate, Joe Miller.

If you wanna catch up on Joe's recent antics, Lefty Coaster's rec list diary is a great place to start.

For those of you who would like to know a little bit more about Joe Miller's 'security detail' from Drop Zone Security, follow me below the fold for an adventure in pure wingnut.

They look like clean cut young men...in a Tony Soprano meets Skinhead chic kinda way.

So who do these guys work for, anyway? It turns out their employer, Drop Zone, is a Survivalist/Security/Tactical Assault/Tea Party/Military Surplus type store in Anchorage.

298 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:22:37am

re: #296 Gus 802

re: #297 Gus 802

SA brownshirt wannabes...

299 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:22:44am

re: #293 HappyWarrior

Oh good catch. Seriously the guy can't be this stupid to actually be praising the idea of the Berlin Wall. Can he?

re: #294 talon_262

I used to work as a security guard for Pinkerton (before they were bought by Securitas a decade ago)...Tennessee law is that private guards, armed and unarmed, only have the power to arrest someone if they either witnessed or have hard evidence of a felony, in which case they can hold someone for the cops. It wouldn't surprise me if Alaska law was similar.

Miller and his goons have mostly likely fucked up, putting themselves on the hook for false arrest.

Now, will Murkowski and McAdams both focus on Miller, or will they turn on each other now that he's gone all-in and has shown he's got no real hand?

300 jaunte  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:24:24am

re: #297 Gus 802

An Infowars.com poster in the window is a sure sign of top-notch security pros.
/

301 JRCMYP  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:24:51am

A bit more backstory on Joe Miller from Mudflats.net

Joe Miller's Alaska Militia

302 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:25:21am

re: #298 talon_262

re: #297 Gus 802

SA brownshirt wannabes...

Check this out.

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

Which is mentioned at DKos:

UPDATE: h/t to Marcion below -- They also apparently dabble into bounty hunting/bail enforcement.

Last Update for tonight: Apparently, one of the 'security' thugs that Joe purchased from the store also works as a bouncer at a strip joint. That guy was carrying a loaded weapon in a middle school.

God, I Can't Believe That I'm Still Awake Update: Major h/t to AnnetteK below for her work in digging up the Myspace page of one of the security thugs.

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

Good God. WTF?

303 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:26:11am

re: #297 Gus 802

Daily Kos
Meet Joe Miller's Thugs: Drop Zone Security

How sweet...they do bounty-hunting work as well...and they get to wear cool t-shirts that say "Agent" on the back...I wonder what their policy is regarding the hiring of minorities?

Image: jjjjjj.jpg

304 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:26:56am

re: #303 darthstar

How sweet...they do bounty-hunting work as well...and they get to wear cool t-shirts that say "Agent" on the back...I wonder what their policy is regarding the hiring of minorities?

Image: jjj.jpg

Ah, the url got truncated...try this

305 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:28:02am

re: #304 darthstar

never mind...go to the diary on dKos to see it...five js before .jpg in the image..not three.

306 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:28:45am

re: #301 JRCMYP

A bit more backstory on Joe Miller from Mudflats.net

Joe Miller's Alaska Militia

Street view of Drop Zone.

307 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:29:51am

re: #302 Gus 802

Check this out.

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

Which is mentioned at DKos:

Good God. WTF?

I have a small leftie paranoia gene, but I didn't think it would get this overt this fast.

308 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:31:34am

re: #306 Gus 802

Street view of Drop Zone.

LOL at the Google Maps note..."Great for the jackbooted thug or if you need jackbooted thugs for rallies. ..."

;-P

309 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:33:26am

re: #308 talon_262

LOL at the Google Maps note..."Great for the jackbooted thug or if you need jackbooted thugs for rallies. ..."

;-P

Check out the reviews!

By wolfcrow - Oct 18, 2010
Rated 1.0 out of 5.0 Don't waste your time!!‎‎ Great for the jackbooted thug or if you need jackbooted thugs for rallies. Not professional and overpriced. Staffed by wannabes that would piss themselves in a real firefight!! Shop elsewhere if you don't like fluff.‎
16 out of 17 people found this review helpful. Was this review helpful? Yes - No - Flag as inappropriate
Response from the owner
Flag as inappropriate
DropZone -
Verified owner

By erikbreese - Oct 18, 2010
Rated 1.0 out of 5.0 Patriots-R-Us‎‎ This place has one of those Obama-as-Joker posters out in front. I asked them why they didn't support the President of the United States if they're so patriotic. They told me to "get the @#$! out." Be afraid. These are the guys with the guns and they can't wait to take care of the "liberal problem."‎
2 out of 2 people found this review helpful. Was this review helpful? Yes - No - Flag as inappropriate
Response from the owner
Flag as inappropriate
DropZone -
Verified owner

By nethead - Oct 18, 2010
Rated 1.0 out of 5.0 Rude service‎‎ Went there to ask some questions and ended up getting put in handcuffs and having to wait for APD to come and rescue me. They should rename it JackBooted Supply.‎
12 out of 13 people found this review helpful. Was this review helpful? Yes - No - Flag as inappropriate
Response from the owner
Flag as inappropriate
DropZone -
Verified owner

By Chris - Aug 8, 2010
Rated 1.0 out of 5.0 Dont waste your money on these losers‎‎ Although these guys have one of the better military selections in town they are a bunch of has been's and want to be's. You feel incredibly unwelcome and have to beg for help. When you do get help its usually pretty lackluster. Prices seem to come off the top of the head. This shady business is cash only too...so forget the card. Go spend your money at one of the other places in town and forget these wanna be GI JOE militia crackpots.‎
17 out of 17 people found this review helpful. Was this review helpful? Yes - No - Flag as inappropriate

310 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:34:18am

re: #309 Gus 802

Check out the reviews!

Ha! CASH ONLY! lol

By Chris - Aug 8, 2010
Rated 1.0 out of 5.0 Dont waste your money on these losers‎‎ Although these guys have one of the better military selections in town they are a bunch of has been's and want to be's. You feel incredibly unwelcome and have to beg for help. When you do get help its usually pretty lackluster. Prices seem to come off the top of the head. This shady business is cash only too...so forget the card. Go spend your money at one of the other places in town and forget these wanna be GI JOE militia crackpots.‎

311 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:35:07am

re: #308 talon_262

LOL at the Google Maps note..."Great for the jackbooted thug or if you need jackbooted thugs for rallies. ..."

;-P

Spin the googlemap 180 degrees, and you'll find an adult entertainment store.

312 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:36:21am

re: #309 Gus 802

And you can recruit at "one of the other places in town". The Russkies are lucky they never tried to swim the Strait.

313 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:36:42am

re: #310 Gus 802

Ha! CASH ONLY! lol

I'm surprised these has-been and wannabe mercenary pansies haven't gone to only accepting gold...

314 jaunte  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:37:42am

re: #313 talon_262

The porn rental across the street probably requires folding money.

315 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:38:04am

re: #311 darthstar

Spin the googlemap 180 degrees, and you'll find an adult entertainment store.

Sounds like Duke Nukem's kind of neighborhood... ;-P

316 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:38:12am

re: #313 talon_262

I'm surprised these has-been and wannabe mercenary pansies haven't gone to only accepting gold...

Check this out. Dropzone advertises in: LONEWOLF RESISTANCE NEWSLETTER

That's a PDF. Go to the last page.

317 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:39:34am

re: #316 Gus 802

Check this out. Dropzone advertises in: LONEWOLF RESISTANCE NEWSLETTER

That's a PDF. Go to the last page.

Yeeessshhh...I don't think it would surprise me if they had some ties with Stormfront.

318 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:39:57am

DropZone: Details
Email‎ dzfoxfire@[REFUDIATED].com ‎
Payment Accepted‎ Invoice‎, Cash‎, Cash ‎
Provided by the business owner

319 jaunte  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:42:51am

re: #318 Gus 802

This guy has really overexcited himself.

"When I sat down and wrote this book I had plenty of time to think about the consequences of what publishing this book might be.
I tried to envision how I would explain my motivation and reasons to both my family and friends—and prepared myself for what I believed would be a living g hell on me and mine."

A LIVING G HELL!!11!!

320 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:43:07am

re: #317 talon_262

But it's the "Most deadliest resistance manual ever written".

Not the most grammatical, though, I'm betting.

321 jaunte  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:45:56am

re: #320 Obdicut

He doesn't want to be

"saddles with a biometric card, the ramifications of which are draconian, to say the least."


And who can blame him for not wanted to be saddles?

322 darthstar  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 10:53:07am

re: #318 Gus 802


Payment Accepted‎ Invoice‎, Cash‎, Cash ‎
Provided by the business owner

I'm so looking forward to hearing about their IRS audit...And I hope the Miller campaign is documenting their fees...

323 Major Tom  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 11:02:12am

Unre: #309 Gus 802

Unbelievable. The for-hire goon squad of the teabaggers. These guys probably sit around watching Red Dawn all day long taking notes... The kind of guys that liked Blackwater before they got all Politically Correct.

324 webevintage  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 11:05:18am

re: #46 Lidane

Kilmeade on his 'all Muslims are terrorists' statement: Sorry if you were offended or got your feelings hurt

My fee fees were not hurt Brian.....I was offended by the stupid.

325 webevintage  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 11:17:46am

re: #178 negativ

How Obama Screws His Base

whaaaaaa, I didn't get the pony Obama promised me.....

326 Kruk  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 11:19:30am

re: #320 Obdicut

But it's the "Most deadliest resistance manual ever written".

Not the most grammatical, though, I'm betting.

Heh. I regret I only have one upding to give that comment.

And seriously, haven't these guys ever heard the saying "Don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the gallon?"

327 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 11:51:16am

re: #326 Kruk

Heh. I regret I only have one upding to give that comment.

And seriously, haven't these guys ever heard the saying "Don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the gallon barrel?"

FTFY ;-P

328 Gus  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 12:31:30pm

Oh, looks like I missed the magical balance fairy above.

329 BongCrodny  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 3:07:52pm

re: #320 Obdicut

But it's the "Most deadliest resistance manual ever written".

Not the most grammatical, though, I'm betting.


...but certainly the mostest grammatical.

330 foobear2  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:08:05pm

re: #68 Crimsonfisted

I remember that SNL ad - it was for "Shimmer"...

Of course, I can't think of Shimmer without also remembering "Autumn Fizz" - if I recall that ad correctly, Chevy Chase belches at the end. Definitely a hoot!


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