Video: Christine O’Donnell’s Idiotic Statement on the Establishment Clause

The AP story on Christine O’Donnell’s shocking ignorance of the Constitution says her statements “generated a buzz in the audience.”

But in fact, the audience laughed out loud at O’Donnell’s idiocy. Here’s the video:

Notice that at the beginning of this clip, she rambles on and on about “intelligent design” creationism, and then says, again, that evolution is “just a theory.” And if you skip to about 7:05, it’s very clear that O’Donnell had no idea at all that the Establishment Clause is part of the First Amendment.

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154 comments

1 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:29:51am

Buzz light years…

2 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:31:23am

And this clip sums up O’Donnells performance perfectly.

3 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:31:44am

She has no idea why the audience is laughing.

4 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:33:23am

re: #3 Killgore Trout

She has no idea why the audience is laughing.

“HAHA! I must have really zinged him. Listen to them back me up.”

5 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:33:25am

The Balded Marx Brother, or whatever they call him, is a pretty erudite guy.

I have to wonder what it’s like for him to share the stage with this air-head, pretending to regard her more or less as an equal, and having to constantly restrain himself from jumping up and screaming, “YOU CAN”T BE THAT STUPID! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE THAT YOU WERE EVEN NOMINATED!”

6 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:34:27am

The bit at 6-7 minutes in is when she very clearly is also saying that she doesn’t believe that the part of the first amendment forbidding establishment of religion exists, either.

And yet many people on Hot Air and other ‘conservative’ sites are insisting that she’s technically correct about ‘separation of church and state’ not being in the Constitution.

Pathetic.

7 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:36:57am

re: #6 Obdicut

The bit at 6-7 minutes in is when she very clearly is also saying that she doesn’t believe that the part of the first amendment forbidding establishment of religion exists, either.

And yet many people on Hot Air and other ‘conservative’ sites are insisting that she’s technically correct about ‘separation of church and state’ not being in the Constitution.

Pathetic.

Absolutely. It’s very clear that she had no idea at all that the Establishment Clause is part of the first amendment.

8 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:37:01am

re: #6 Obdicut

The bit at 6-7 minutes in is when she very clearly is also saying that she doesn’t believe that the part of the first amendment forbidding establishment of religion exists, either.

And yet many people on Hot Air and other ‘conservative’ sites are insisting that she’s technically correct about ‘separation of church and state’ not being in the Constitution.

Pathetic.

Separation of Church and State is a conspiracy set in motion by a black robed shadow cabal which hates the United States and God.

9 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:38:35am

Saw a clip last night, this may have been the same debate but O’Donnell is asked to name a recent supreme court decision she disagreed with and she rambled for a while and even asked the moderator to name one for her, the moderator was like we’re asking you for a decision you disagree with. How this woman is taken seriously as a candidate, I have no idea. She really reminds me of Palin and that’s not a compliment. Just a pretty face with extremely reactionary social views.

10 Ericus58  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:39:55am

Mama Boucher: You gonna lose all your fancy “fools’ balls” games! And your gonna fail your big exam! Because school is?

Bobby Boucher: The devil?
[Mama gasps]

Bobby Boucher: Everything is the devil to you, Mama! Well, I like school, and I like football! And I’m gonna keep doin’ them both because they make me feel good!

Bobby Boucher: [Bobby runs out, slamming the door, then comes back in] And by the way, Mama. “Alligators” are ornery ‘cause of their “Medula Oblongata”!

Bobby Boucher: [Bobby runs back out, then back in again] And I like Vicki, and she like me back! And she showed me her boobies and I like them too!
[slams door on Mama]

The part of Mama Boucher could be played by either Christine or Sarah….

11 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:40:20am

re: #9 HappyWarrior

She’s not just taken seriously as a candidate, she has the backing of the national GOP. Rove was made to kowtow and apologize for having doubted her.

To those who say that people like O’Donnell represent just the fringe crazies: They’re being backed by the national GOP. Nobody is allowed to say a bad word about any of these lunatics in the GOP.

So who’s really running the GOP?

12 dmon  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:42:41am

No big deal…she was planning on reading the constitution right after she was sworn in. My God……. “I don’t have my constitution with me, could you tell me what those amendments are?”


And the idiot thinks she should be elected as senator

13 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:43:25am

re: #1 ralphieboy

To infinity… and beyond…

14 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:45:14am

re: #11 Obdicut

She’s not just taken seriously as a candidate, she has the backing of the national GOP. Rove was made to kowtow and apologize for having doubted her.

To those who say that people like O’Donnell represent just the fringe crazies: They’re being backed by the national GOP. Nobody is allowed to say a bad word about any of these lunatics in the GOP.

So who’s really running the GOP?

Yeah if you criticize the lunatics Sarah calls you a sexist. O’Donnell could be Chris O’Donnell wearing a tie and I’d have the exact aame opinion I do now. I mean this isn’t just O’Donnell- it’s Joe Miller with his thugs and his apparent love of East Germany,, Sharron Angle with her race baiting, etc. These are all the candidates of a major party.

15 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:45:57am

It’s astounding to me that she actually showed up for a debate at a law school completely ignorant of the Bill of Rights.

She’s not just stupid, she’s lazy. How hard would it have been to read the amendments to the Constitution before this event? Good freaking grief.

16 PT Barnum  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:47:35am

re: #15 Charles

It’s astounding to me that she actually showed up for a debate at a law school completely ignorant of the Bill of Rights.

She’s not just stupid, she’s lazy. How hard would it have been to read the amendments to the Constitution before this event? Good freaking grief.

That would require hard work. According to her own people’s definition that is only done by rich people. Since she’s never made all that much money, she’s not allowed.

17 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:48:06am

The beginnings of the Dark Ages 2.0.

18 ragnwald  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:48:19am

She probably thinks she did a good job. Most of her voters probably think she did a good job too, because the only thing worth looking into is the Bible and any lack of knowledge outside the Bible is actually a reason to vote for her.
In the eyes of fundamentalists (no matter the religion), ignorance on anything outside religion is a good thing(TM).

19 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:48:35am

re: #15 Charles

What’s worse is that maybe she did read it, and still got to the wrong answers.

20 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:48:42am

Didn’t we learn anything from Sarah Palin? It’s not what you know, but what you say you think you may know that counts, so long as you can look good saying it (wink).

21 AlexRogan  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:48:58am

re: #11 Obdicut

She’s not just taken seriously as a candidate, she has the backing of the national GOP. Rove was made to kowtow and apologize for having doubted her.

To those who say that people like O’Donnell represent just the fringe crazies: They’re being backed by the national GOP. Nobody is allowed to say a bad word about any of these lunatics in the GOP.

So who’s really running the GOP?

At best, a bunch of spineless wimps unable to stand up to the kooks in their midst…at worst, a bunch of complicit weasels that will do anything and back anyone that even has a chance to get the GOP back in to power.

Bad juju either way…

22 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:49:21am

You know when the GOP fails to get a majority in the Senate, the people who voted for these same candidates that we’re seeing are going to convince themselves through some brilliant mental gymanstics that they in fact lost not because they’re loons but because they weren’t “conservative” enough. I will bet good money that will be the case. Maybe not on the GOP establishment but among the TPers absolutely.

23 teleskiguy  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:49:39am

War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, Ignorance Is Strength.

24 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:50:03am

Here’s an MP3 clip.

25 avanti  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:50:14am

re: #15 Charles

But she is just common folk, not the Commie elites that read and understand the constitution, attended Ivy league schools, read news papers and such nonsense./

26 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:50:24am

Heh…someone around the three minute mark says, “God, I can’t believe how stupid…”

27 ragnwald  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:51:05am

re: #15 Charles

How hard would it have been to read the amendments to the Constitution before this event? Good freaking grief.

For her, there’s neither incentive nor reward in looking into anything else other than her holy book: being ignorant outside religion appeals to her voters.

28 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:51:56am

re: #21 talon_262

At best, a bunch of spineless wimps unable to stand up to the kooks in their midst…at worst, a bunch of complicit weasels that will do anything and back anyone that even has a chance to get the GOP back in to power.

Bad juju either way…

“You go to office with the candidates you have, not the candidates you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

29 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:52:02am

re: #20 darthstar

Wouldn’t that be Fernando?

It’s not how you feelthink… it’s how you look

30 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:52:24am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

You know when the GOP fails to get a majority in the Senate, the people who voted for these same candidates that we’re seeing are going to convince themselves through some brilliant mental gymanstics that they in fact lost not because they’re loons but because they weren’t “conservative” enough. I will bet good money that will be the case. Maybe not on the GOP establishment but among the TPers absolutely.

Yes, and it will lead to a further purge of RINOS until the GOP has made itself totally unelectable for 2012.

31 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:52:24am

“I didn’t bring my constitution with me (she doesn’t have one), and fortunately Senators don’t have to know the constitution, but could you remind me what the other Amendments were?”
She’s reminded.
She babbles incoherently.
Moderator: “That’s fine Miss O’Donnell, thank you.” /facepalm

32 Coracle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:52:40am

The dogpile on her is almost problematic for me. She’s an idiot with no chance. She’s emblematic of the worst of the know-nothings. But there are a lot of harder fights out there with people who are just as dangerous but less stupid.

In some ways every spotlight she gets lets someone else skulk around with more impunity.

33 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:53:55am

re: #32 Coracle

The dogpile on her is almost problematic for me. She’s an idiot with no chance. She’s emblematic of the worst of the know-nothings. But there are a lot of harder fights out there with people who are just as dangerous but less stupid.

In some ways every spotlight she gets lets someone else skulk around with more impunity.


Yes, Sharron Angle stands a fair to middlin’ chance of getting elected, and she is twice the crackpot O’Donnell is

34 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:54:04am

How fucking hard is it to understand this?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
35 PT Barnum  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:54:04am

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

36 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:54:51am

re: #32 Coracle

The dogpile on her is almost problematic for me. She’s an idiot with no chance. She’s emblematic of the worst of the know-nothings. But there are a lot of harder fights out there with people who are just as dangerous but less stupid.

In some ways every spotlight she gets lets someone else skulk around with more impunity.

I’m hoping that, after seeing this one, folks will take a closer look at any nominee, but especially a Republican nominee.

37 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:54:53am

re: #33 ralphieboy

Yes, Sharron Angle stands a fair to middlin’ chance of getting elected, and she is twice the crackpot O’Donnell is

She hides it better.
/

38 AlexRogan  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:55:24am

re: #25 avanti

But she is just common folk, not the Commie elites that read and understand the constitution, attended Ivy league schools, read news papers and such nonsense./

Mel Brooks and the Blazing Saddles screenwriters said it best (through Gene Wilder):

What did you expect? “Welcome sonny,” “Make yourself at home,” “Marry my daughter.” You’ve got to remember, that these are just simple farmers, these are people of the land, the common clay of the new west. You know … morons.
39 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:55:39am

re: #33 ralphieboy

Yes, Sharron Angle stands a fair to middlin’ chance of getting elected, and she is twice the crackpot O’Donnell is

Sharron Angle, if you listen to her and watch her, is obviously heavily medicated.

40 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:56:13am

re: #35 PT Barnum

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

Well, that’s pretty close to Pennsylvania, isn’t it? I mean you can see Pennsylvania from parts of West Virginia.
/

41 Eagle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:56:26am
42 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:57:03am

re: #36 wrenchwench

I’m hoping that, after seeing this one, folks will take a closer look at any nominee, but especially a Republican nominee.

I don’t think most people will see this. The MSM will downplay the stupidity and offer up other scenarios to fit their narrative.

43 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:57:04am

re: #35 PT Barnum

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

Ha!

Image: PalinTweetFail.jpg

44 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:57:04am

re: #11 Obdicut

She’s not just taken seriously as a candidate, she has the backing of the national GOP. Rove was made to kowtow and apologize for having doubted her.

To those who say that people like O’Donnell represent just the fringe crazies: They’re being backed by the national GOP. Nobody is allowed to say a bad word about any of these lunatics in the GOP.

So who’s really running the GOP?

45 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:57:35am

Did Coons do any better on this than O’Donnell? From Politico:

Following the next question, Coons revisited the remark — likely thinking he had caught O’Donnell in a flub — saying, “I think you’ve just heard from my opponent in her asking ‘where is the separation of church and state’ show that she has a fundamental misunderstanding.”

“That’s in the First Amendment?” O’Donnell again asked.

“Yes,” Coons responded.

O’Donnell was later able to score some points of her own off the remark, revisiting the issue to ask Coons if he could identify the “five freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment.”

Coons named the separation of church and state, but could not identify the others — the freedoms of speech, press, to assemble and petition — and asked that O’Donnell allow the moderators ask the questions.

“I guess he can’t,” O’Donnell said.

The exchange followed an attempt by O’Donnell to fix a misstep from last week’s nationally televised debate in which she was unable to name a Supreme Court case with which she disagrees.

That section isn’t in the clip above but followed several minutes later.

46 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:58:54am

re: #30 ralphieboy

Yes, and it will lead to a further purge of RINOS until the GOP has made itself totally unelectable for 2012.

I think you’re right about this. I’ve never seen anything like this really honestly with either party. What happened in Delaware was akin to some far left moonbat beating Mark Warner (like Castle a former and respected governor) in the primary.

47 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:59:00am

re: #45 lawhawk

Yes, he did better. He didn’t insist that separation of church and state isn’t in the first amendment.

Seriously, dude.

48 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:59:06am

re: #45 lawhawk

Did Coons do any better on this than O’Donnell? From Politico:

That section isn’t in the clip above but followed several minutes later.

Well, that settles it. O’Donnell’s a much better choice for Delaware. //

49 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:59:50am

re: #35 PT Barnum

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

Just remember: If McCain had won and died of overwork a year into his term, an all too likely possibility given his age and known health problems, this person would now be President of the United States.

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:00:47am

re: #35 PT Barnum

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

But you can see Pennsylvania from West Virginia…

51 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:00:48am

re: #45 lawhawk

Did Coons do any better on this than O’Donnell? From Politico:

That section isn’t in the clip above but followed several minutes later.

Damn. So it was really a tie.

//

;)

52 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:01:34am

re: #49 Shiplord Kirel

Just remember: If McCain had won and died of overwork a year into his term, an all too likely possibility given his age and known health problems, this person would now be President of the United States.

Every time someone posts something like that, my penance goes up. Cut it out.

53 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:01:37am

re: #35 PT Barnum

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

She has a lot of weird mistakes like that. Saw once she spelt Angle’s name “Sharon” which I kinda understand since Sharon is hte more common spelling but if you’re going to be a kingmaker of these candidates take the time to learn their frigging names.

54 PT Barnum  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:01:50am

re: #49 Shiplord Kirel

Just remember: If McCain had won and died of overwork a year into his term, an all too likely possibility given his age and known health problems, this person would now be President of the United States.

Stop it Man, You’re scarin’ me!

55 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:02:08am

re: #45 lawhawk

Did Coons do any better on this than O’Donnell? From Politico:

That section isn’t in the clip above but followed several minutes later.

If you watch the clip above, it’s pretty clear that Coons is vastly more knowledgeable about the Constitution than O’Donnell. This is a lame attempt at a ‘gotcha’ and it was probably suggested to her by a staffer on her Blackberry, because I seriously doubt she came up with it herself.

56 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:02:11am

re: #48 darthstar

No. She isn’t - not when she’s busy trying to wiggle around her creationist nonsense claiming that evolution is just a theory (let’s just ignore that creationism is just a belief system not based in tangible fact). It does show that Coons’ grasp of con law may not be all that much better - or at least got caught flat footed on the comment.

57 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:02:27am

re: #50 ralphieboy

But you can see Pennsylvania from West Virginia…

You can even see Pennsylvania State IN West Virginia.

58 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:02:55am

re: #45 lawhawk

By the way, that’s not from Politico, that’s from a random poster on Politico.

I’d hesitate in believing arandom poster’s version of the exchange, don’t you think?

59 theheat  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:03:34am

Every time Perky Princess has the opportunity, she never fails to put foot in mouth. It’s so commonplace anymore, it isn’t fun to watch.

60 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:03:41am

re: #56 lawhawk

You seriously are saying that, after giving a rather thorough explanation of how separation of church is derived from the establishment cluase, Coons knowledge of the first amendment ‘isn’t much better’?

That’s some spin, baby.

61 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:03:46am

re: #56 lawhawk

Even the Magical Balance Fairy said, after the debate, “Fuck it, she’s toast.”

62 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:04:12am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

She has a lot of weird mistakes like that. Saw once she spelt Angle’s name “Sharon” which I kinda understand since Sharon is hte more common spelling but if you’re going to be a kingmaker of these candidates take the time to learn their frigging names.


You summed it up, she thinks she can just toss off remarks in Twitter and get away with it. It reflects the degree to which she values her own image over any substance.

63 sadhu  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:05:04am

The Rent Is 2 Damn High Party

“As a karate expert, I will not talk about anyone up here because our children can not afford to live anywhere.”

[Link: tv.gawker.com…]

64 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:05:09am

re: #46 HappyWarrior

I think you’re right about this. I’ve never seen anything like this really honestly with either party. What happened in Delaware was akin to some far left moonbat beating Mark Warner (like Castle a former and respected governor) in the primary.

Alvin Greene?

65 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:05:51am

re: #45 lawhawk

Ah, apologies, it is in the actual politico story— for some reason you linked to the forum.

Here’s the story:

[Link: www.politico.com…]

66 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:06:34am

re: #64 negativ

Alvin Greene?


Alvin Greene got in due to some odd fluke the circumstances of which circumstances are still not clear. He did not enjoy the support of his party or of a Coffee Party or anyone else for that matter.

67 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:06:46am

Sure enough, the entire right wing blogosphere is already screaming about the ‘five freedoms’ exchange.

Who could have predicted that?

Never mind that Christine O’Donnell is a religious fanatic young earth creationist — look, she got him with that one!

Sad.

68 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:08:51am

re: #64 negativ

Alvin Greene?

Here’s the thing about Alvin Greene - he doesn’t stand a chance in hell of winning, and he knows it. He’s not even campaigning, nor is he going to debate DeMint. If, by some freak chance, he actually beat DeMint, the important thing will be that DeMint is gone, and Alvin Greene will be given a couple of “advisors” who will walk him through his daily routine.

69 The yankee  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:09:02am

Please let this woman win just for the lolz. The snl skits the, daily show skitz will make it worth it

70 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:10:16am

re: #69 The yankee

Please let this woman win just for the lolz. The snl skits the, daily show skitz will make it worth it

She’ll be in the news even after she loses. The Teabaggers will love her like a Palin blow-up doll, and she’ll be a guest commenter on Fox throwing barbs at the President.

71 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:10:44am

re: #66 ralphieboy

Alvin Greene got in due to some odd fluke the circumstances of which circumstances are still not clear. He did not enjoy the support of his party or of a Coffee Party or anyone else for that matter.

Yeah, I am talking about a full out far left moonbat think someone with Cindy Sheehan like views defeating a popular former governor. Which is why I used Mark Warner. Though Warner differs from Castle in that he hadn’t been in the House of Reps.

72 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:10:55am

re: #67 Charles

The right wing blogosphere makes Christine O’Donnell look intelligent.

73 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:11:11am

Maybe liberals should turn this semantic attack on its head, and start saying the right to own guns isn’t in the Constitution.

Because by the logic they’re using to defend O’Donnell, it’s not.

74 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:11:38am

re: #65 Obdicut

And there are other parts of the exchange that were included in that video as well:

“Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?” O’Donnell asked Coons as the audience laughed.

He said it was in the 1st Amendment.

“Let me clarify,” O’Donnell continued. “You’re telling me that separation of church and state is in 1st Amendment?”

“Government shall make no establishment of religion,” came the reply.

“That’s in the 1st Amendment,” she asked.

Later when questioned about other constitutional points, O’Donnell said: “I’m sorry I didn’t bring my Constitution with me. Fortunately senators don’t have to memorize the Constitution.”

That goes back to what Charles said above - not being prepared for a debate at a law school.

75 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:13:13am

re: #73 Obdicut

Maybe liberals should turn this semantic attack on its head, and start saying the right to own guns isn’t in the Constitution.

Because by the logic they’re using to defend O’Donnell, it’s not.

Yeah the constituion doesn’t say you have the right to own owns, it says you have the right to bear arms which means I have the right to have bear arms. Now how am I going to get those bear arms without being mauled is anotehr story.

76 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:14:05am

Somewhere in Alaska, Joe Miller is thankful for a break in media/blogosphere attention.

77 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:14:35am

re: #75 HappyWarrior

Yeah the constituion doesn’t say you have the right to own owns, it says you have the right to bear arms which means I have the right to have bear arms. Now how am I going to get those bear arms without being mauled is anotehr story.

With a sedative shot from a gu,,, ummm…DAMN!

78 Eagle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:15:02am

Wow.

At 7:20, Coons (in part) recites the 1st amm.

After her unbelievable response, he’s pretty calm. Not mocking, not derisive. He is probably thinking that if *that* statement doesn’t sink her, then nothing will.

He knows its a gotcha moment.

Really, truly unbelievable on her part.

79 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:15:03am

re: #74 lawhawk

I really am at a loss as to what you’re trying to do here, dude.

Coons made cogent, intelligent points about the first amendment’s relationship to separation of church and state. He demonstrated a knowledge of the constitution that went beyond the textual.

O’Donnell displayed an ignorance of both.

So how on earth can you try to push the meme that Coons didn’t do much better, when he talked intelligently— and accurately— at separation of church and state?

80 mmnowakjr85  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:15:32am

The thread on HotAir on this is epic in stupidity - creationism & evolution are being discussed now - so I present to you a nominee for the Wingnut of the Week Award:

I’m beginning to believe that you are clueless when it comes to science. You certainly don’t understand logic.
fossten on October 19, 2010 at 2:05 PM

Gravity is a law.
fossten on October 19, 2010 at 1:50 PM

First time ever that I’ve actually done a real-life headdesk.

81 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:16:27am

re: #75 HappyWarrior

Yeah the constituion doesn’t say you have the right to own owns, it says you have the right to bear arms which means I have the right to have bear arms. Now how am I going to get those bear arms without being mauled is anotehr story.

And don’t be dragging in that confusin’ elitist introductory clause about a well regulated militia, either…

82 celticdragon  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:17:58am

re: #6 Obdicut

The bit at 6-7 minutes in is when she very clearly is also saying that she doesn’t believe that the part of the first amendment forbidding establishment of religion exists, either.

And yet many people on Hot Air and other ‘conservative’ sites are insisting that she’s technically correct about ‘separation of church and state’ not being in the Constitution.

Pathetic.

They have been beating that drum for years. “Trusconserv” at The Daily Beast is foaming at the mouth and insisting O’Donnel has lead Coons into a clever trap with her superior knowledge.

Welcome to political deconstruction. Reality and empiricsim are optional.

83 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:18:26am

Palin: “Common Sense is an endangered species”

Does that mean she hunts it with a high powered rifle from a helicopter?

84 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:18:36am

re: #80 mmnowakjr85

Repeal gravity!

85 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:19:42am

re: #80 mmnowakjr85

The thread on HotAir on this is epic in stupidity - creationism & evolution are being discussed now - so I present to you a nominee for the Wingnut of the Week Award:

First time ever that I’ve actually done a real-life headdesk.

Haha there’s also Newton’s third law where if there isn’t a reaction for an equal reaction you can be sentenced to life in prison.

86 mmnowakjr85  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:20:18am

re: #84 darthstar

it’s just Jesus keeping us from getting raptured till its the right time

87 sattv4u2  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:22:29am

Hope this pilot had Clearance, Clarence!

[Link: www.boston.com…]

88 Lidane  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:24:39am

re: #20 darthstar

Didn’t we learn anything from Sarah Palin?

Every time I think about candidates like Sarah Palin, Christine O’Donnell, Sharron Angle, and Carl Paladino, I’m reminded of a quote from Hunter S. Thompson about Ross Perot:

Ross Perot was the best thing that happened in American politics since Richard Nixon acquired a taste for gin. In both cases, the political dialogue of the day was enriched by spontaneous gibberish that entertained the wrong people and made the right ones question their faith.

The Tea Party movement is just Perot II: Lunatic Boogaloo. It’s the same ignorant, incoherent populism and nonsense, and it’s had about the same effect on people at large. The problem is, this time around the GOP establishment aren’t questioning their faith. They’re marching in lockstep with the idiocy because they’re desperate to win. That’s how we end up with someone going to a debate at a law school without even knowing what the hell the Constitution says.

89 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:25:33am

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Palin: “Common Sense is an endangered species”

Does that mean she hunts it with a high powered rifle from a helicopter?


It means that Americans like to think that we can solve complex national and international issues with simple, folksy remedies that make good sound bytes.

90 American-African  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:41:29am

She warned us about the mice with fully functioning human brains as a smokescreen to conceal the human with fully functioning mouse brain. But she is not a witch, she’s YOU.

91 122 Year Old Obama  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:44:02am

re: #35 PT Barnum

Sarah Failin’ to understand geography just endorsed John Rease for Pennsylvania Senator. Problem is he’s running in West Virginia.

re: #43 darthstar

Ha!

Image: PalinTweetFail.jpg

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:53:29am

re: #90 American-African

She warned us about the mice with fully functioning human brains as a smokescreen to conceal the human with fully functioning mouse brain. But she is not a witch, she’s YOU.

Personally, I don’t feel that much of a connection. OK, neither of us is a mouse. But is that really enough to base a relationship on?

93 acacia  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:56:40am

This is an example of what happens when you’re armed with talking points and nothing more. The tea party talking points include 1) the words “separation of church and state” is not in the Constitution (which they aren’t of course but that’s hardly the point) and 2) The five (5) freedoms protected by the First Amendment (because it was a good You Tube video hit when sprung on a candidate who couldn’t come up with the answer). However, when you’re forced off the script a little, the talking points aren’t enough to help you. You actually have to have a brain to be able to discuss these issues.

94 acacia  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:59:01am

re: #90 American-African

Am I allowed to choose witch?

95 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:12:46pm

Ignorance is the new black.

96 nullspace  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:16:56pm

For those evangelical, Tea Party supporters defending O’Donnell’s statement that the “separation of church and state” isn’t word-for-word in the Constitution, it would be wise to remember the words “rapture” or “trinity” isn’t in the Bible either.

97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:26:15pm

re: #96 nullspace

Anyone who believes in the rapture (not Christanity, THE RAPTURE) is very difficult to take seriously

it’s just a stupid belief, let’s face facts here

It’s like believing Satan is a real presence, a real guy who really corrupts people

unbelievable

98 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:27:44pm

re: #56 lawhawk

No. She isn’t - not when she’s busy trying to wiggle around her creationist nonsense claiming that evolution is just a theory (let’s just ignore that creationism is just a belief system not based in tangible fact). It does show that Coons’ grasp of con law may not be all that much better - or at least got caught flat footed on the comment.

ugh partisanship

magical balance fairy even rearing itself from the lawyer

oh well!

99 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:34:50pm

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Separation of Church and State is a conspiracy set in motion by a black robed shadow cabal which hates the United States and God.

That devious Cabal! I heard they were called the Founding Fathers. Cryptic, ominous name.

100 acacia  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:36:38pm

re: #88 Lidane

Couple of thoughts…1) Palin isn’t a candidate — at least not yet; 2) the others are tea party favorites but are really quite different. O’Donnell is a complete unmitigated disaster and is obviously not qualified to hold the office (or any other public office) even if she ran unopposed. Pallidino is just plain weird and someone I wouldn’t want to meet in an alley, dark or otherwise. Angle is also weird and comes off as not being very street smart (unlike Palladino) and naive. (On second thought, this IS entertaining.) However, at least as to Angle, I think people are so sick of the economic mess we have now that they are willing to vote for just about anybody who is running against someone associated with the economic policies of the last couple years. Reid obviously qualifies and absent being indicted, Angle has a good chance of winning. I can’t even say I disagree with that result should it happen because the economic mess is by far the most important issue we face and Reid has done nothing to help and a lot to hurt it. That’s the one area where I think people conflate the tea party and the general feeling of the electorate. They are quick to label the tea party is a fringe group when that is an entirely irrelevant consideration. When it comes to basic issues - taxes and spending - the majority of the voters are on the same page whether the tea party agrees with them (as they do) or not. It doesn’t mean the “silent majority” endorse the tea party or any social issue, but the fact is the electorate is very angry about the economic mess and in many states and districts will undoubtedly “throw the bums out.”

101 American-African  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:45:15pm

re: #94 acacia

Am I allowed to choose witch?

Most definitely :-)

102 acacia  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:47:28pm

re: #96 nullspace

Good point. The words “purgatory” and “assumption” (such as the Assumption of Mary) are also not in the Bible.

103 American-African  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:49:19pm

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

What relationship? She’s YOU! She said so herself. Wait a minute, are you HER?

104 blueraven  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:15:00pm

re: #100 acacia

You seem to have a very short memory like a lot of other people in this country. This economic meltdown happened under republican administration. Because it hasn’t been fixed to your satisfaction in a couple of years, you are ready to blame those trying to DO something.

The party of NO and Hell NO…not so much. They claim they will cut spending but never really say where. Earmarks?…a joke. Non discretionary defense spending is a small part of our fiscal problems. So what are they going to cut?
Oh wait, I know…tax cuts for the wealthy!

The president had to establish a deficit commission by appointment because he couldn’t get Congress on board. Yes…they are all sooo serious!

105 deranged cat  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:54:00pm

youtube troll watch!

I love how all these moonbats here are laughing at Christine, and her supposed lack of intelligence: your opinion about her is WORTHLESS, unless you are from Delaware!
106 Petero1818  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 2:07:11pm

re: #7 Charles

It is quite clear that she picked up the part of the talking points of the tea party that the phrase “separation of church and state” does not appear in the Constitution. However she did not have the ability to dig deeper to understand that the First Amendment has been interpreted as such. Because she is a total moron, she was then surprised to hear the actual language of the First Amendment and could not connect the dots for herself.

107 Linden Arden  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 2:24:22pm

re: #102 acacia

Good point. The words “purgatory” and “assumption” (such as the Assumption of Mary) are also not in the Bible.


And the Holy Trinity concept was added hundreds of years after Constantine.


(Source - Erasmus - the great Bible scholar)

108 CSKapper  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 5:34:16pm

What more proof does one need that Christine O’Donnell is absolutely clueless. What happened to electing educated and intelligent representatives?

109 acacia  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:20:59pm

re: #104 blueraven
I’m not going to argue with you except to say that in my opinion spending and printing money is a horrible idea to try to get our economy on track. Most people know this and are in fact going to vote that way. The anti incumbent and anti tax and spend feeling is a very real and powerful sentiment whether one agrees or not. Although I know it is only anecdotal, I can’t tell you how many hard core liberals that I know who are suddenly singing an entirely different tune now when it comes to economic (not social) issues. I live in an area that is particularly hard hit with the economy and is traditionally Democratic so that may have something to do with it. Anyway, I’ve never seen such a swing in thinking which makes me believe that the predictions of sweeping changes in the elections are probably true. More to the point, all this focus on a candidate’s positions on social issues is a waste of time because that is not what people are focused on - meaning tea party types have a good chance of gaining broad support regardless of less than broad support on social issues.

110 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:24:27am

re: #109 acacia

I’m not going to argue with you except to say that in my opinion spending and printing money is a horrible idea to try to get our economy on track. Most people know this and are in fact going to vote that way. The anti incumbent and anti tax and spend feeling is a very real and powerful sentiment whether one agrees or not. Although I know it is only anecdotal, I can’t tell you how many hard core liberals that I know who are suddenly singing an entirely different tune now when it comes to economic (not social) issues. I live in an area that is particularly hard hit with the economy and is traditionally Democratic so that may have something to do with it. Anyway, I’ve never seen such a swing in thinking which makes me believe that the predictions of sweeping changes in the elections are probably true. More to the point, all this focus on a candidate’s positions on social issues is a waste of time because that is not what people are focused on - meaning tea party types have a good chance of gaining broad support regardless of less than broad support on social issues.

Everyone is against “tax and spend” and deficits until their pet project/cause/whatever is considered for elimination by the deficit hawks. Then it’s “I didn’t mean close a make-work project in MY area!” Reverse NIMBYism.

111 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:16:55am

Charles, I have a question. Do you believe in a Creator?

112 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:42:24am

re: #111 JustaDummy

Why do you ask?

113 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:20:30pm

I’m just curious. Most of the Founders did.

114 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:46:04pm

re: #113 JustaDummy

I’m just curious. Most of the Founders did.

Judging from your avatar, you still have a bit of evolving left to do yourself.

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:51:28pm

re: #113 JustaDummy

I’m just curious. Most of the Founders did.

Just out of curiosity so what does it matter as to whether or not what he says is true.

But let me take this a little further. If you believe in the same creator Abraham did - and I do, you can not possibly support the callous greed, ignorance and aggression of the GOP.

Would you care to discuss what scripture actually says about things like giving charity, being good to the poor, engaging in honest business practices, not exploiting the weak or the poor, upholding the rights of others and such?

116 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 1:08:04pm

And poof! He vanishes into the mist.

117 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 2:55:48pm

re: #112 Charles

Why do you ask?

I believe that evolution is a fact but I also understand why the Founders put the Creator in the Declaration of Independence. It has to do with the organizational flow of power that they established in order to restrain the Government and the men that would try to rule OVER us.

118 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:00:20pm

re: #117 justadummy

The Declaration of Independence is not the document that defines this nation’s legal infrastructure. The US Constitution is.

And the Constitution makes absolutely no mention of God or a Creator. In fact, it very specifically LIMITS the influence of religion in the US government, for a very good reason — because the founders saw the horrors that result when governments are tied to religions.

This “Declaration of Independence” talking point is a tedious, endlessly rehashed attempt to deceive that comes straight from the religious right. But you know that, don’t you?

119 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:07:47pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

1st- I’m not for the GOP. I’m for smaller constitutional government.
You had a typical Pavlovian response though
(Creator/Founders = GOP)
2nd- The Bible deals with Man and Man’s eternal salvation. It tells us how we, as individuals should treat one another and how we should worship G-d. It doesn’t tell government that it has the right to confiscate something from to me give to others.

120 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:15:57pm

re: #118 Charles

The Declaration of Independence is our Mission Statement.

I as an believer in evolution understand the concept that if there is no Creator that gave us these unalienable rights, then Man/Govt is the granter of rights and they are not permanent because man is corruptible and can take them away.

Denying this basic concept is the first step on a path to dictatorship.

Surely you understand and accept this?

121 Phage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:38:28pm

re: #120 justadummy

Nice straw man.

The entire concept you’ve presented is flawed. It only works on assumptions.

The first being that inalienable rights are only granted by a creator, and that they can’t be established by the will of a people, when set down as the foundation for the law of that people.

The second is that in the case of a creator those rights would be inalienable, under the assumption that a creator cannot change or decide to take them away.

That established you then assume that if both these assumptions are accurate, failure to accept them is to take a step towards dictatorship. The entire premise you’ve presented should be disregarded, frankly.

122 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:38:58pm

re: #119 justadummy

1st- I’m not for the GOP. I’m for smaller constitutional government.

Like the one that guarantees a seperation of Church and State?

You had a typical Pavlovian response though
(Creator/Founders = GOP)

Be careful with that, the Deist founders of America were very proud of keeping religion out of government. They would detest folks like you because you were precisely the sorts they wanted to guard against gumming up the works.


2nd- The Bible deals with Man and Man’s eternal salvation.

It seems to talk about a lot of commandments and eternal principles as well. It seems to spend a lot of time talking abut what is good and what is evil. Being greedy, callous and uncharitable is evil.

It tells us how we, as individuals should treat one another and how we should worship G-d.

Yes it does. Exactly what acts of fidelity, kindness, compassion towards others, upholding the rights of the widow and the orphan do you see coming from the GOP or the Teabags.

It doesn’t tell government that it has the right to confiscate something from to me give to others.

And here we have the principle bit that marks you as a hypocrite. On a purely textual question, what was the half sheckle for that was obligatory to give before a census (this is before the bit with the Golden Calf). Did the kings of Israel have the right to tax? Were the kings of Israel supposed to care for the poor?

Wanna look those verses up?

Teabags are insults to any Abrahamic faith. They extol hatred and greed and call it a virtue, all while wrapping themselves in the flag and banging a Bible that condemns them.

123 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:40:52pm

re: #120 justadummy

You’re not just a dummy, you’re a special dummy.

If what you say is true, our inalienable rights don’t need to be fought for and defended, because no one can take them away because they were granted by God.

And if what you say is true, we need to ditch the First Amendment because atheists are going to lead us into dictatorship so we need to codify religion.

124 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:01:22pm

re: #122 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes the Supreme Court has ruled that there is Separation of Church and State. Believing in a Creator or Higher Power is not Religion.

Let me be clear. You had a Pavlovian reaction to someone putting forth a statement about a Creator and the Founders. In a typically knee jerk fashion you equated it with with the GOP.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar and unto G-d what is G-d’s.
But I submit to you that Govt doesn’t have the right to forcibly take more that G-d asks me to give to His Church.

125 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:06:36pm

re: #121 Phage

So if I use your reasoning, if the “will of the people” establishes these rights couldn’t the will of the people also change them?
Then they wouldn’t be unalienable, would they.

126 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:08:54pm

re: #124 justadummy

You’re saying “Pavlovian”, which is totally wrong. Pavlovian is for autonomous actions, like salivating. You just mean ‘automatic’.

You can try saying “Skinnerian”, but you’d have to show how it was a Skinnerean reflex.

Why do you think the Constitution makes no mention of god?

127 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:27:34pm

re: #126 Obdicut

His Pavlovian reaction was that he he reflexively typed “GOP!” to the mere mention of a Creator and the Founders

The Constitution is the HOW, not the WHY
The Constitution is the rulebook for our form of government.
The Declaration is the why. It’s our statement of WHY we are setting up a separate government that has rights given to us by a Creator. Rights that no King or Priest or President can change.
The Declaration gives the flowchart of power.
1-Creator(who gives us our rights)
2-We the People
3-Government.
Why did they do this?
To forever prevent the King,Priest,President from taking away out rights.
And just to make damn sure, The Founders put the 2nd Amendment in there.

128 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:35:51pm

re: #127 JustaDummy

His Pavlovian reaction was that he he reflexively typed “GOP!” to the mere mention of a Creator and the Founders

Typing “GOP” is not a reflex action, but a conscious one. Pavlovian only refers to autonomic actions, like salivating. You are using the wrong term.

Can you not dodge the question, please?

Why do you think that no mention of God is in the Constitution?

129 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:07:15pm

re: #127 JustaDummy

The Constitution is the HOW, not the WHY

Just for the heck of it, I googled that phrase. The results came from:

Pajamas Media
Wide Awake Cafe
two religious sites
Big Government
and Free Republic

in that order.

Wingnut talking point.

130 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:20:00pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

It also really makes no sense.

So HOW we should govern is by keeping God entirely out of government? Great!

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:22:25pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

Just for the heck of it, I googled that phrase. The results came from:

Pajamas Media
Wide Awake Cafe
two religious sites
Big Government
and Free Republic

in that order.

Wingnut talking point.


Well spotted!

132 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:36:39pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

I’m kind of surprised at the level of antagonism directed at what used to be commonly taught in basic civics classes. It’s kind of depressing.

But whats really depressing is when people think that just because they can drive a car, work a PC, and text on a Blackberry that it makes them more intelligent than The Founders.

133 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:48:46pm

re: #130 Obdicut

Exactly. No State Church.
But moral men in government, trying to do the right thing within the framework of The Constitution.

134 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:57:07pm

re: #133 JustaDummy

No, it means a lot more than no state church. It means that government can pass no law that enshrines a religious belief in the law.

Can you cite where in the constitution it talks about moral men?

Can you explain why there is no reference to God in the constitution? You haven’t actually answered this question.

135 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:18:06pm

re: #134 Obdicut

God is not in the Constitution because it is a document for all the People. Believers and Non-Believers. It specifically prevents the establishment of a state religion because it would be used to oppress people. Not because there is no G-d.
And it prevents the state from oppressing religious people

The Constitution doesn’t say anything about moral men, but I assume that you want them in government. That is just common sense.
But then again you might want immoral ones.

136 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:22:43pm

re: #135 JustaDummy

Do you agree that it goes beyond simply preventing an establishment of a state religion, and prevents any enshrining of religion in the apparatus of state?

137 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:24:23pm

Why such hatred for The Creator?

138 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:24:45pm

re: #137 JustaDummy

Can you demonstrate people showing hatred for ‘the creator’?

139 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:34:51pm

Refusing to acknowledge the concept of The Creator as used in The Declaration Of Independence is troubling.
When a President omits the words when he is QUOTING the Declaration, I start to get worried.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:45:02pm

re: #124 justadummy

Yes the Supreme Court has ruled that there is Separation of Church and State. Believing in a Creator or Higher Power is not Religion.

Let me be clear. You had a Pavlovian reaction to someone putting forth a statement about a Creator and the Founders. In a typically knee jerk fashion you equated it with with the GOP.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar and unto G-d what is G-d’s.
But I submit to you that Govt doesn’t have the right to forcibly take more that G-d asks me to give to His Church.

I see you completely sidestepped the points which refuted you and showed you a fraud and a hypocrite and went instead for a straw man and a false characterization.

Let’s make some things clear kiddo.

Abrahamic faiths consider giving charity and caring for the poor, standing up for the weak, not exploiting laborers etc… to be commandments. They are not optional.

As to governments enforcing them, of course that is in scripture and it is in tradition.

If you consider yourself a Christian, you clearly have no clue what teh basic tenants of your faith are - and heck, I’m Jewish and telling you that truthfully.

141 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:51:13pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

It sounds like you are for government being an arm of religion when it comes to “doing good”

Your Wall of Separation is pretty low.

142 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:58:20pm

re: #139 JustaDummy

Well, you appear to be refusing to acknowledge that for some of the founders, that “Creator” was ‘nature’s god’, rather than the Christian god.

Nobody here is refusing to acknowledge that “the creator” is referenced in the Declaration of Independence.

What on earth that has to do with the way our country is run, however, is being asked, and you have given no sufficient answer.

143 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:04:32pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

The problem with government doing good in the name of a religion is that government always picks winners and losers. It picks the groups that it will “give” to in the name of charity. And who do you suppose those people will vote for next time around.

Government should stay the hell out of it. Lower taxes so the individual has more of his income to give to the charities of HIS choosing.

144 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:06:26pm

re: #143 JustaDummy

How low should taxes be?

145 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:09:39pm

re: #142 Obdicut

You assumed Christianity.

All I’m saying is that if rights don’t come from a higher power, a Creator, then they are not truly unalienable.
If they don’t come from a Creator, then man can change them.
How is it that 18th century man could grasp this concept, but today’s so-called intellectuals cannot.
I think its because they studied and understood man ability to oppress man.

146 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:13:51pm

re: #145 JustaDummy

How on earth do you think man can’t change rights that come from some ‘higher power’ either?

You have a really weird concept of what inalienable means.

It simply means these rights are real even when they’re taken away, that they are the natural rights of man because of the nature of man. Who created him doesn’t really matter.

Again:

How low should taxes be?

147 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:25:52pm

re: #146 Obdicut

Do you believe is a G-d or Creator or Higher Power?

148 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:27:16pm

re: #147 JustaDummy

Nope.

Now, how low should taxes be?

149 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:36:02pm

I thought so.

I think there should be a flat tax at about 15-18%. No more no less.
With an exemption on the first 25K of income.

150 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:51:56pm

re: #118 Charles

I guess that the concept of inalienable rights and how they remain inalienable for all time is too tedious for a response?

I get it. A Creator implies judgment.

151 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:02:36pm

re: #132 JustaDummy

I’m kind of surprised at the level of antagonism directed at what used to be commonly taught in basic civics classes. It’s kind of depressing.

But whats really depressing is when people think that just because they can drive a car, work a PC, and text on a Blackberry that it makes them more intelligent than The Founders.

Just saying you’re smart doesn’t make you smart, son

We aren’t fooled :)

152 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 3:55:03am

re: #149 JustaDummy

You probably also think a lot of people who do believe in a creator don’t, because they disagree with you about the importance of the words in the declaration of independence.

So, what things do you want cut from the budget so that flat tax is approachable? Social security would have to go, as would much of our military, as would Medicaid and Medicare. Are those the cuts you’d make?

153 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 4:03:02am

re: #149 JustaDummy


By the way, both Ludwig and WUB believe in a creator. Ludwig is a devout Jew. WUB’s religious beliefs are private and nobody’s business but his own, but he’s stated he believes in something non-atheistic.

So you’re actually being told off by an atheist, a Jew, and an independently religious person.

Think about it.

154 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 12:14:46pm

re: #141 JustaDummy

It sounds like you are for government being an arm of religion when it comes to “doing good”

Your Wall of Separation is pretty low.

Ohhh… what a slimy reverse on your part.

No, I was pointing out that you were doctrinally incorrect. When you were commenting on what the bible does and does not say.

Whether or not the government supports the poor for example, in the name of religion or not, is moot. What matters is that you somehow think the Bible says it should be otherwise.

On that you are simply incorrect.

I repeat, the King could tax and he was expected to help people with those taxes.


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