Neo-Confederate Historical Revisionism in a Virginia 4th Grade Schoolbook

History • Views: 7,057

It’s bad enough that creationists are constantly trying to get their nonsense published in school textbooks; but now we have neo-Confederates doing it too: Virginia 4th-grade textbook criticized over claims on black Confederate soldiers.

And once again, behind this latest revisionist outrage we find the sleazy white supremacist hate group that calls itself the Sons of Confederate Veterans. They’re getting very active in the age of the Tea Party.

A textbook distributed to Virginia fourth-graders says that thousands of African Americans fought for the South during the Civil War — a claim rejected by most historians but often made by groups seeking to play down slavery’s role as a cause of the conflict.

The passage appears in “Our Virginia: Past and Present,” which was distributed in the state’s public elementary schools for the first time last month. The author, Joy Masoff, who is not a trained historian but has written several books, said she found the information about black Confederate soldiers primarily through Internet research, which turned up work by members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Scholars are nearly unanimous in calling these accounts of black Confederate soldiers a misrepresentation of history. Virginia education officials, after being told by The Washington Post of the issues related to the textbook, said that the vetting of the book was flawed and that they will contact school districts across the state to caution them against teaching the passage.

“Just because a book is approved doesn’t mean the Department of Education endorses every sentence,” said spokesman Charles Pyle. He also called the book’s assertion about black Confederate soldiers “outside mainstream Civil War scholarship.”

Masoff defended her work. “As controversial as it is, I stand by what I write,” she said. “I am a fairly respected writer.”

Jump to bottom

87 comments
1 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:14:36am

This whole thing got started with homeschoolers actually some years ago

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:19:02am

We are at war with East Asia, we have always been at war with East Asia.

Rewriting history is the particular obsession of fascists and totalitarians everywhere.

Just to say it clearly. The institution of slavery in America, was particularly brutal and dehumanizing even as different systems of slavery go. There is nothing to defend about it. No moral person can look at it and not be sickened.

Anyone who does stand up for it is evil. Let's not mince words. They are pure and simple evil.

Various reight wing revisionists would paint for you a picture of happy slaves singing in cotton fields. They were so very happy, these scum would argue, that they would even gladly volunteer to fight for their beloved masters.

The reality of course is one of brutality, murder, terror, continual abuse, rape and dehumanization to the point of treating human beings as cattle, to be bred, beaten or slaughtered (as an example, to instill fear) as needed.

3 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:19:37am

That reminds me: Did we ever get an update from the History Chanel and the neo-Confederate ad?

4 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:20:25am

I always trust people who say that they're respected writers. That's how you know the good ones-- they go around telling you how respected they are.

5 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:21:35am

re: #1 SpaceJesus

This whole thing got started with homeschoolers actually some years ago

Of course, in a proper school system, such lies would be dismissed out of hand. We can't have the state enforcing the teaching of actual truth now can we?

The ultimate result of all of these homeschooled people is that whack job parents indoctrinated their kids with lies. It is not to say that home schooling can't work, but rather, the majority that chose this option do so, in order to be certain that nothing ever challenges the dogmas or prejudices of the parent.

6 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:23:51am

Does the textbook mention that every single document of secession from the seceding states cited the preservation of the institution of slavery as the right that they were seceding in order to keep?

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:24:17am

Talking points we will come up against in this discussion:

Most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves
(Those who owned more than 10 slaves were exempt from the draft - in 1860 there were over 60,000 plantations with 20 slaves or more in the South)

They Confederacy was defending States' Rights

(Including the issue of exporting slavery to the new territories, whereby the Fugitive Slave Act and the Dredd Scott decision made it possible for them to take their slaves regardless of the status of the territory.)

Blacks fought on the Confederate Side.

(there is only anecdotal evidence to support this, but documented evdence that Robert E. Lee was firmly against it)

8 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:24:46am

Ohh and one special message for the neo-Confederates.

You racist scum lost. You deserved to loose, by any standard of justice in the world. Civilized people revile you.

9 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:26:11am

I'm a respected writer too!

10 Henchman 25  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:26:33am

re: #7 ralphieboy

Yeah. States' Rights. As in the rights to own another human being.

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:26:57am

re: #10 SteelPH

Yeah. States' Rights. As in the rights to own another human being.

Exactly.

12 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:27:39am

re: #7 ralphieboy

Blacks fought on the Confederate Side.


As Alouette pointed out earlier, many were embedded in CSA units to serve their 'masters.' Most of the rest were used as labor units.

13 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:27:59am

re: #10 SteelPH

Yeah. States' Rights. As in the rights to own another human being.

Lots of Texans get rather annoyed when you remind them that one of things they were fighting for at the Alamo was the right to keep their slaves on Mexican territory...

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:30:16am

BUt we're missing the point I think.

The point is that America and the GOP has fallen so low, that such talk is respectable enough to be given a national stage.

The GOP happily made this deal with the devil as an election stratagem, and Fox happily pushed all the fear and hatred needed to make it viable for several years running.

A large portion of America have crossed the line into becoming true scum.

Fox fires them up and gives them a voice, and the GOP has become their party.

15 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:33:09am

re: #3 Killgore Trout

That reminds me: Did we ever get an update from the History Chanel and the neo-Confederate ad?

No -- they haven't responded to my questions.

16 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:33:14am

I look forward to a day in a civilized future world, the last Republican dies in a zoo. He wold have been an object lesson for the children as to what mixing greed, ignorance, hatred, indolence and arrogance do to make one evil.

17 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:37:04am

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any. But I've read about them. Off the top of my head, the ones I met fit your description to varying degrees, up to and including batshit nuts.

18 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:38:54am

Ohh and all of you who would whine about my broad brush about Republicans. Wake up and smell the coffee. Whatever you think the GOP is or was, is not what it is today.

By even being remotely reasonable, you are a RINO. Your party left you and made that clear to everyone.

People who are sane, but still call themselves Republican can either fight to take their party back or they can leave, but they are fools to stand with it as it is. If you do stand up for them, you smear yourself with the droppings of folks like Rush, and Coulter and Beck and Palin and Jones and Malkin, and Inhofe and Barton and Angle and Newt, and O'Donnel and the Pauls and the list goes on.

Those are the GOP.

What are you?

19 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:19am

re: #17 theheat

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any. But I've read about them. Off the top of my head, the ones I met fit your description to varying degrees, up to and including batshit nuts.

Like I said, it could work. But that assumes that the parents involved have the knowledge base to be good teachers. All of the homeschool success stories I have ever heard involve a parent who was a professor of some sort and exceptionally bright children.

In general though, you are dealing with moron, ignoramus parents and their less than gifted kids making certain that no one "gets tainted" by things like true history, science, or sexual education.

20 iossarian  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:29am

re: #17 theheat

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any. But I've read about them. Off the top of my head, the ones I met fit your description to varying degrees, up to and including batshit nuts.

My sister is married to such a guy. His parents homeschooled him, in part, because they viewed the school system as too restrictive/conformist.

He's a great guy (and also very much a liberal). But I think he would be the first to admit that he is in the minority in terms of his political views and general openness to conflicting opinions, when compared to homeschooled kids in general.

21 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:41am

re: #17 theheat

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any.

I'm one.
But for every family where the parents are not "crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences" there are 4 others like The Duggers or worse.

22 Ericus58  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:59am

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

I look forward to a day in a civilized future world, the last Republican dies in a zoo. He wold have been an object lesson for the children as to what mixing greed, ignorance, hatred, indolence and arrogance do to make one evil.

I'm sure you are including Colin Powell in that extreme bloodlust you have....

23 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:43:02am

re: #17 theheat

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any. But I've read about them. Off the top of my head, the ones I met fit your description to varying degrees, up to and including batshit nuts.

I have four; the saner ones don't really make the news.

24 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:43:47am

Ericus, ome out and play. Your parwould paint a picture of happy slaves so as to diminish the damage that slvery did. Your party runs adds telling LAtins not to vote. Your party is anti-science and your candidates reject seperation of church and state.

Come out and play.

Tell us how these are reasonable positions to take in the modern world.

Come out and tell us why they deserve your dogged defense.

25 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:43:49am

Show of hands on who didn't see this coming.

Tea Party Group Accused of Voter Intimidation in Houston Early Voting

[A] Tea Party group called the King Street Patriots has been accused of “1960s style” voter intimidation in primarily minority precincts on the first day of early voting in Texas. The group is being sued by the Texas Democratic Party, following the filing of 14 voter intimidation complaints with the county clerk, and another two dozen with the Texas Democratic Party chairman.

The complaints, [first assistant Harris County attorney Terry O’Rourke] said, came from Kashmere Gardens, Moody Park, Sunnyside and other predominantly minority neighborhoods. The complaints included poll watchers “hovering over” voters, “getting into election workers’ faces” and blocking or disrupting lines of voters waiting to cast their ballots.
“Keep in mind these are allegations of voter intimidation,” O’Rourke said. “It’s sometimes in the eye of the beholder.”

26 iossarian  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:45:24am

re: #22 Ericus58

I'm sure you are including Colin Powell in that extreme bloodlust you have...

A short while ago I would have condemned LVQ's comment above. But it's now getting to the point where, as he says, sane Republicans face a difficult choice between getting out of the party altogether or making a serious effort to reclaim it.

I'm not seeing the latter, but I am seeing a lot of the former, not least in these pages.

27 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:45:31am

re: #22 Ericus58

I'm sure you are including Colin Powell in that extreme bloodlust you have...

Colin Powell was loudly and largely rejected as the Chief RINO. In fact the word RINO was coined about him in the Bush years. If he still considers himself a Republican, the GOP certainly does not, and neither do the general GOP hordes. That is a rather stupid argument you just made.

28 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:47:04am

re: #25 RadicalModerate

Sounds likely:

TDP lawyer Chad Dunn accused the group "blatantly ignoring our election laws" and said that, even in the first "three or four hours" of early voting, witnesses in minority precincts had reported representatives from the group "shouting misinformation" and "following voters and standing behind them" as they tried to vote. Dunn said TDP intended to release video of the incidents within the next few days.[Link: www.texastribune.org...]
29 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:47:31am

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

In general though, you are dealing with moron, ignoramus parents and their less than gifted kids making certain that no one "gets tainted" by things like true history, science, or sexual education.

So you've met my fundie neighbors, the Can'tReadNorWrites? I only have them on three sides...
//

But really, it's comforting to know there are people here that are the living examples of successful homeschooling. I know they're supposed to exist someplace.

30 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:48:58am

re: #17 theheat
In the same spirit-
Home schooling might be how I would protect a youngster from Texas texts. Darwin & AGW at home. Given a creationist school board why not home school? Disclosure-I fought for home schooling to avoid forced busing circa 1977

31 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:52:12am

re: #26 iossarian

I've studied the rise of the Nazis very thoroughly. The warning signs were there, but easier to dismiss a while ago. They hopefully are more clear now. This needs to be stopped and the only way it gets stopped without violence is if people wake up to what it is early enough to thwart it politically.

32 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:54:35am

re: #30 Rightwingconspirator

If I had a child of public school age in Texas, I'd probably send him to private school. (I might have to donate blood to pay for it, but whatever.) I don't know I'd be up to homeschooling because my math sucks. But I'd be damned if I'd have him dumbed down in psuedo-science, historical revisionism, and theocracy. To me, that's child abuse.

33 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:55:32am

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

I just hope that, after less-than-stellar gains during this election, or unsatisfactory legislative action after making good gains, the Tea Party types form a third party, the GOP implodes and is able to rebuild itself from moderates, leaving us with two responsible parties and one crazy-ass party.

34 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:57:04am

re: #28 jaunte

I found this statement from the Liberty Institute defending the "King Street Patriots" to be quite telling - they aren't denying their actions.

The full statement from the Liberty Institute:

Not coincidentally on the first day of early voting, the Texas Democratic Party filed suit to try to bind and gag citizens from speaking out during an election. That should be embarrassing for any party. Censoring citizens is no way to win elections. It is also unconstitutional. This lawsuit is an embarrassment.

This lawsuit and the coordinated ethics complaint filed by a George Soros funded corporation are bullying tactics to intimidate citizens into silence. It won’t work. Citizens have every right to speak out and encourage citizens to vote and be involved in their government. Trying to bully and intimidate citizens into silence is politics at its worst.

35 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:58:08am

re: #33 Obdicut

I just hope that, after less-than-stellar gains during this election, or unsatisfactory legislative action after making good gains, the Tea Party types form a third party, the GOP implodes and is able to rebuild itself from moderates, leaving us with two responsible parties and one crazy-ass party.

That would be a good thing.

36 iossarian  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:00:54am

re: #31 LudwigVanQuixote

I've studied the rise of the Nazis very thoroughly. The warning signs were there, but easier to dismiss a while ago. They hopefully are more clear now. This needs to be stopped and the only way it gets stopped without violence is if people wake up to what it is early enough to thwart it politically.

I think the main thing that is making this hard is that the Republican party predates the current extreme nuttery and thus provides it with some Colin Powell-esque cover.

Cover which is rapidly being burned away by the fires of lunacy, though.

37 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:01:25am

re: #34 RadicalModerate

They're probably violating the electioneering laws.
[Link: law.onecle.com...]

Most of the intimidation seems to be from overzealous poll-watchers getting too close to the voters.

38 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:01:48am
39 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:02:56am

re: #38 shreck

Can you provide any background on that picture?

40 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:05:13am

re: #39 Obdicut
It appears here with the caption:

Over the course of the Civil War, more than 200,000 (Black) African-Americans served in branches of the Union military, fighting to secure their own liberty.
[Link: black-legacy.webs.com...]
41 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:08:59am

re: #38 shreck

Image: blackcwsoldiers.jpg

Is that supposed to mean something? Those are Union troops.

Retouching History:
The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph
Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr.

Conclusion

In sum, the evidence available to us makes it abundantly clear that the Union recruitment poster shown in Figure 2 was in fact based on a legitimate photograph, and that the photo labeled “1st Louisiana Native Guard 1861” that is being sold by [Link: www.rebelstore.com...] as a 19th century photograph is, in fact, a falsification. We cannot determine when this falsification occurred, but it was done within the last decade or so - - judging from the presence of artifacts yielded by digital manipulation and the superimposition of a modern font face.

The specific motives of the fabricator/s of the Louisiana Native Guard photo can only be conjectured, but the manipulation of photographic imagery for ideological/political purposes is a well-established practice. As the editors of Civil War Times Illustrated wrote in their August 2004 issue (p. 80): “It is tempting to think of photographs as evidence, documents of what reality was like in some specific time and place. But from the earliest days of camera craft, photographers have been much more than mere recorders. At times, they can be outright masters of illusion.” The editors are discussing a more innocent Civil War photograph of a junior Union officer in field dress. He is posing in a studio in front of a false backdrop to create the impression that the photograph was taken outdoors against a rustic wooden fence. It is commonplace to observe that pictures “do not speak for themselves.” [15] The photographs of the Louisiana Native Guards offer an interesting illustration of that adage and show how a legitimate photograph can be altered and used to advance and support a particular contemporary political or ideological perspective in the present-day United States.

42 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:09:08am

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote


Yep it could work with lots of government standards and oversight, especially over what books are used. For instance, Christian-themed history books and science books need to be prohibited for any child's education.

43 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:10:05am

re: #41 Gus 802

The Confederate black soldiers were really Union black soldiers

Category: History
Posted on: April 3, 2007 3:32 PM, by Coturnix

See, how retouching history works. Retouching, as in 'photoshopping' a photo of a soldiers in Union uniforms into Confederate uniforms, then using the photo as a propaganda material.

44 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:10:18am

Next!

45 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:12:46am

Here's a larger photo. If you zoom in you can even see the "U.S." belt buckle on the soldiers.

46 Ericus58  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:13:35am

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Ericus, ome out and play. Your parwould paint a picture of happy slaves so as to diminish the damage that slvery did. Your party runs adds telling LAtins not to vote. Your party is anti-science and your candidates reject seperation of church and state.

Come out and play.

Tell us how these are reasonable positions to take in the modern world.

Come out and tell us why they deserve your dogged defense.

After reading your post, the first thought that came to mind was that you're about this close to stroking out on us.

My personal beliefs on various subjects raised and discussed here at LGF would clearly show that I support none of the stupidity or backward positions exposed by the Tea Party, or even some of those by other GOP politicians.

Just as I wouldn't put forth that the nuttiest and stupid positions or views of some on the left represent all Democrats - nor should it be made that the views and positions of the Paul's, O'Donnell, Palin.... represent all Republicans.

Why am I still a Republican? Because this party has stood for positions of Justice, individual Rights and Equality, Fiscal responsibility, good governance.
And I work to make that still this party's direction. I fight the good fight, and support those within the Republican Party that are working to these goals.
And I have in the past and will continue to give my votes to a Democratic candidate that shares in my views also.

The Republican Party is in a fight with itself. My disappointment in some of it's leadership in not just making poor decisions but also in the choices of who to support in this election cycle is a bitter taste. But not all within the GOP are broken. There has to be a change and that is why I continue.

Would you rather have no "Loyal Opposition"?
One-Party Rule?
Group-Think mindset?

I think not.
You are intelligent, well educated and you've achieved things in your life through work and effort - yes? Just like many here at LGF. But each of us have our own unique paths we've taken and have beliefs and opinions that realistically won't be the same as everyone else.
Being on opposite sides on some positions or views is not always bad - depends on the position.

Try and keep that perspective before you post thought's that for the most part if directed and any group other than Republicans would have a majority of the posters boinking your head.

47 nines09  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:14:53am

Goes right along with Glenn Beck stating government intervention screwed up that wonderful institution called Slavery
I don't respect you as a writer either, unless this is a fictional account formed in your small closed mind and sold as such. Guess not.

48 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:17:25am

re: #42 SpaceJesus

You need to spend some time in a Christian book store, Mr. Space Jesus ;-) Or, even check some of the Craigslist listings for second-hand homeschooling materials. USDA 100% Christian certified.

49 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:18:51am

re: #46 Ericus58

The Republican Party is in a fight with itself.

And to the detriment of us all, the lunatic fringe is winning.

50 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:20:19am

re: #46 Ericus58

Who, in the current party, do you support?

51 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:22:15am

re: #40 jaunte

It appears here with the caption:

Did you have a good gander at the site that it came from?

Teapartisan Junction!

52 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:23:16am

re: #46 Ericus58

It sounds like your doing exactly what LWG commented about, fighting the fight for the sane parts of the party which still exist while recognizing the problems for what they are. I've been in the position where an org a belonged too started going off in a negative direction. I stayed, along with others and did what I could to bring it back to a more positive direction. It was tough and although in the end we ended up waving the white flag and moving on it was worth it to fight for what we believed in.

53 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:23:23am

re: #45 Gus 802

Funny, they don't look Hispanic or Asian.
//

54 APox  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:24:37am

re: #17 theheat

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any. But I've read about them. Off the top of my head, the ones I met fit your description to varying degrees, up to and including batshit nuts.


I was homeschooled until 8th grade and look at me ...posting on Lgf just totally crazy. ;)
However I was raised on creationist 'science' ... Maybe that's why I'm an atheist now.

55 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:26:59am

re: #38 shreck

Image: blackcwsoldiers.jpg

Why are you trying to foist off a faked picture as evidence in favor of neo-Confederate revisionism?

56 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:27:07am

re: #54 APox

Both my siblings went to religious private school, while me - being the oldest - went to public school. Oddly enough, we're all atheists as adults. Weird how things work out sometimes.

57 Lidane  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:27:22am

re: #14 LudwigVanQuixote

BUt we're missing the point I think.

The point is that America and the GOP has fallen so low, that such talk is respectable enough to be given a national stage.

Exactly.

Just a few years ago, all this garbage would have been relegated to fringe websites and placed firmly in conspiracy theory territory. Now it's mainstream thought. That's scary as all hell, IMO.

58 brownbagj  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:27:25am

Well, it was the war of Northern Aggression.

//

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:33:39am

re: #46 Ericus58

After reading your post, the first thought that came to mind was that you're about this close to stroking out on us.

Not at all, but I am certain that characterizing me that way helps you to dismiss and ignore the truth of what was said.

My personal beliefs on various subjects raised and discussed here at LGF would clearly show that I support none of the stupidity or backward positions exposed by the Tea Party, or even some of those by other GOP politicians.

So then why do you defend them? They are clearly a party of anti-science, racist, conspiracy freaks and religious nuts, controlled by corporate interests.

Just as I wouldn't put forth that the nuttiest and stupid positions or views of some on the left represent all Democrats - nor should it be made that the views and positions of the Paul's, O'Donnell, Palin... represent all Republicans.

That statement ignores the endorsement of the Republican establishment and the results of Republican primaries. You ignore Fox and teh right ing media. There are no sane voices of the GOP speaking loudly. Those that tried, like Powell were cast out. Your comment fails the reality test.

Why am I still a Republican? Because this party has stood for positions of Justice, individual Rights and Equality, Fiscal responsibility, good governance.

When has it ever stood for those things in recent years? They are more of a fiscal and spending disaster than the Dems - the hard numbers show this to be true for the past 60 years. As to individual liberties, this is the party of putting Pat Robertson in your bedroom. Equality? You must be joking. These are the first people to complain about feminists and minorities demanding equal rights. As to good governance, shall we look at the Bush Administration?

And I work to make that still this party's direction. I fight the good fight, and support those within the Republican Party that are working to these goals.

Good for you. These are lofty goals. Which Republicans today do you think stand for them? Are any of them nationally known?

And I have in the past and will continue to give my votes to a Democratic candidate that shares in my views also.

That right there would make you a RINO as far as the party faithful are concerned.

Would you rather have no "Loyal Opposition"?

The key word there is Loyal. I have a hard time believing that when the GOP will sink its own ideas, like cap and trade only to damage the president, and spread any falsehood it can, like birtherism and death panels only to damage the president.

One-Party Rule?
Group-Think mindset?

That is certainly what the modern GOP is after.

Try and keep that perspective before you post thought's that for the most part if directed and any group other than Republicans would have a majority of the posters boinking your head.

Not if what I write is true. You will find I am really harsh on Hamas, Hezbollah, and Disco as well.

60 brownbagj  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:33:47am

re: #17 theheat

My kids are homeschooled. Both my wife and I have advanced degrees. We take our kids to public classes every week, the zoo, aquariums, museums etc so they will be around many other kids doing field trips.

We are Christian, but we do not teach this during school hours. School is school, science is science and faith is faith.

Each, for us, has its place.

61 brownbagj  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:36:13am

re: #33 Obdicut

This. We work best in the US with two sane parties. One party in power with no sane counterpoint is not good for anyone.

62 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:37:26am

re: #60 brownbagj

My kids are homeschooled. Both my wife and I have advanced degrees. We take our kids to public classes every week, the zoo, aquariums, museums etc so they will be around many other kids doing field trips.

We are Christian, but we do not teach this during school hours. School is school, science is science and faith is faith.

Each, for us, has its place.

And you are the small minority for whom it could work. I am not opposed to homeschooling per se. I am opposed to most people who try it thinking they are capable to do so, and the false and dangerous dogmas they teach.

63 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:37:55am

re: #61 brownbagj

This. We work best in the US with two sane parties. One party in power with no sane counterpoint is not good for anyone.

Sane being the key word.

64 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:37:56am

re: #55 Charles


I've got ancestors buried at Andersonville.
103 Pa, captured at New Bern.
I'm just putting up a pic of what was billed as black southern troops. I find it impossible to believe that there were No black soldiers used by the south.

65 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:40:04am

re: #45 Gus 802


My bad, it does appear to be US troops, I got snookered.

66 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:41:43am

re: #64 shreck

I've got ancestors buried at Andersonville.
103 Pa, captured at New Bern.
I'm just putting up a pic of what was billed as black southern troops. I find it impossible to believe that there were No black soldiers used by the south.

The truth is that there were some slaves who went to the field as service corps for the white soldiers. There were almost no front line black forces for the CSA.

The issue is not that those poor souls existed, but rather that neo-confederate slime and historical revisionists would then try to inflate the numbers and services rendered, so at to falsely convince people that slavery wasn't so bad for the majority of the slaves.

They would argue that it couldn't have been that bad if so many black men happily volunteered to serve the CSA. Exactly what volunteering means in a slave state is another matter of course, but that is the lie they are promoting.

67 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:41:44am

re: #48 theheat


I'd burst into flames.

Ludwig, what is the science behind spontaneous human combustion by the way?

68 brownbagj  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:42:59am

re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh, you are right. And I am not against public schools. We just felt we could be really involved and give the kids a better, more well rounded education ourselves.

For instance, my 6 year old starting learning sign language when she was just 18 months. She can know speak some Spanish. She also reads at a 5th grade level.

And, all of my kids have flown to California, Florida, NC and have driven to many other states. We do this as my job has me travel some and we use that time as educational - it really works well for us.

But it takes dedication and time. Just like public school if the parents are involved.

I don't disagree my family is a bit of an anomaly.

69 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:43:15am

re: #65 shreck

My bad, it does appear to be US troops, I got snookered.

OK Glad you readily accepted the evidence I linked.

70 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:43:20am

re: #67 SpaceJesus

I'd burst into flames.

Ludwig, what is the science behind spontaneous human combustion by the way?

To the best of my knowledge, it is about as verified as the science of crystal healing, psychic surgery, and ghost hunting.

71 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:44:39am

From History.com


The measure did nothing to stop the destruction of the Confederacy. Several thousand blacks were enlisted in the Rebel cause, but they could not begin to balance out the nearly 200,000 blacks that fought for the Union.
72 brownbagj  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:45:07am

re: #67 SpaceJesus

It appears to have something to do with all of the nylon/polyester in Christian bookstores and the proximity of an atheist.

/

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:45:44am

re: #71 shreck

From History.com

Or the millions who suffered the fate of an everyday slave.

74 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:46:21am

re: #69 Gus 802

OK Glad you readily accepted the evidence I linked.


Oh I admit I fell for it, kinda pisses me off too that someone would take the time to doctor up a historical photo like that.

75 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:47:48am

re: #25 RadicalModerate

Show of hands on who didn't see this coming.

Tea Party Group Accused of Voter Intimidation in Houston Early Voting

King Street Patriots? Heh. If they were the Patriot Street Kings, the HPD would roll a gang unit looking for MS-13 wannabes.

76 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:48:55am

re: #74 shreck

Oh I admit I fell for it, kinda pisses me off too that someone would take the time to doctor up a historical photo like that.

Yes. Agenda driven racists and political hacks lie and see no problem with making even terrible ones. I suppose in some sense that is all a neo-confederate can do, since the reality of the history, which wasn't so long ago really,and so very well documented over such a wide scale, is so terrible.

77 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:54:23am

re: #17 theheat

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say there are many homeschooled children that are well-adjusted, intelligent, and happy. Their parents aren't crazy, religious zealots, or afraid of outside influences.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any. But I've read about them. Off the top of my head, the ones I met fit your description to varying degrees, up to and including batshit nuts.

I've only known two homeschooled people. One ended up going to Liberty University, which is about all that needs to be said about that. The other one was from a fairly high-income household. I don't know exactly what "class" consisted of, but she got into Stanford at 17, and I don't know what happened after that.

78 theheat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:18:13am

re: #77 negativ

I know many, many homeschooled kids that wet to various fundie colleges after their stint of homeschooling that spell and speak about as well as my dog. We're talking shitall stupid, even by today's crappy public school standards. How they actually graduated - I have no idea. ("It's a miracle! Praise Jeezus!")

But I've read stories about other kids that were homeschooled that have gone on to be doctors and lawyers and technicians and all kinds of normal and intelligent things. Yes, some of their parents are religious, but they aren't zealots. Homeschooling doesn't have to mean stupid or fundamentalist dogma. But I believe it's more common than not. I'd go so far as to say it's the norm, and the ones who come out okay are the lesser percentage.

79 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:44:40am

For what it's worth, I dug out a copy of "Look Away" by W.C. Davis.
pp155, "Somehow North Carolina even got away with conscripting a limited number of free blacks..."

80 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:23:27pm

re: #71 shreck

Several thousand blacks were enlisted in the Rebel cause...

This is simply not true. See:

History gives lie to myth of black Confederate soldiers.

81 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:32:14pm

re: #71 shreck

I can't believe people still say this crap. Oh wait, there are people running around who seriously think the war wasn't about slavery also...huh

82 Lidane  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:38:50pm

re: #71 shreck

Right. Because people would actively enlist to fight for the people who want the right to keep them as slaves.

Pfft.

83 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:42:06pm

The war was undoubtedly about slavery, never said otherwise.

And I was quoting History.com and then "Look Away".

84 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 3:22:33pm

re: #10 SteelPH

Yeah. States' Rights. As in the rights to own another human being.

Yep, and it's funny how all the confederate state constitution explicitly mention slavery. And as I said last week, nearly 2/3's of the Confederate states seceded before Lincoln was even inaguarated. Calling Lincoln the aggressor is a dishonest move at best.

85 shreck  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:20:25pm

It was always about slavery. State's Rights was a canard. It was only about state's rights to slavery. The southern states had no objection to the various fugitive slave laws.
Slavery is what doomed the south from the start. They would never get the recognition from the Europeans and the institution itself was rapidly becoming inefficient.

86 whitebeach  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 4:44:29pm

This is only my second post here, even though I lurk pretty often, so if I'm violating standards in some way, apologies.

The subject of black Confederate soldiers is not quite a myth. It's certainly true that most blacks who "served" the Confederacy were literally servants and slaves. But then there were the Louisiana Native Guards.

The Guards are a prime example of how New Orleans is and always has been different. And their unusual story probably contributes quite a bit to the confused claims about black Confederate soldiers.

Something close to 800 New Orleans area black men enlisted in the Guards in 1861 to fight for Louisiana and the Confederacy. But they were free men, not slaves. New Orleans had more free blacks than probably the rest of the South combined.

Their motives of course varied. Some, as in all wars, wanted to prove themselves as men and as "patriots" of their homestate. Some wanted to protect their property (we're not talking impoverished field hands; some of these men were quite wealthy, and some owned slaves themselves). Some had ancestors who had fought the British in the Battle of New Orleans and hoped to live up to that distinction.

But the Guard never did fight for the Confederacy. The powers that be wouldn't let them, even when New Orleans itself was threatened. And when New Orleans fell very early in the war (April 1862), the Guard quickly reorganized as Union forces. That's right, Union: It was probably the only group of its size to switch sides more or less en masse.

The Union didn't want to let them fight, either, and put them under white officers instead of their own. Finally they saw serious action at Port Hudson, where they were sent on virtually a suicide attack but fought well and bravely despite heavy casualties.

After the war many of these men took prominent roles in the civil rights struggles of the day in Louisiana.

As I said, only in New Orleans. James Hollandsworth's "The Louisiana Native Guards" is a great resource and is the work of a real historian, not someone with a latter-day political axe to grind.

87 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 22, 2010 2:59:48am

re: #86 whitebeach

The point is, if they didn't actually let them fight, they weren't actually free soldiers. They weren't given arms and equipment. They were forcibly disbanded in a reorganization of the militia that specified it had to be whites only


The Union didn't want to let them fight, either, and put them under white officers instead of their own.

You should also mention they had the first black officers in US military history, both under the Confederates and under the Union. The difference being that the Union actually did let them fight.

They really are a good example of exactly what the point of this post was about.

textbook distributed to Virginia fourth-graders says that thousands of African Americans fought for the South during the Civil War

That's still a lie, you see. They didn't fight. They weren't allowed to fight.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 149 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1