The story behind the murder of Dr. George Tiller is chilling indeed, perhaps mainly for what it reveals of the extensive support network of anti-abortion extremists who enable these religiously motivated acts of terrorism.
1 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:10:21pm |
Maddow was making the point that these leaflets have lead to assassinations in the past. They're simply a call to murder.
| 2 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:12:07pm |
I'm on video 5 of 6. This is really worth watching, regardless of where you stand on the abortion issue. A must see for anyone who honestly wants to understand what's going on in this country regarding this issue.
| 3 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:17:22pm |
re: #1 lostlakehiker
This is actually a different video from the segment she did on the leaflets. This one is significantly longer, very well done and well researched. Certainly worth your time, I think.
| 4 |
Winny Spencer Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:17:56pm |
re: #2 Slumbering Behemoth
I watched it today, and watched "The McVeigh Tapes" before, and I must say that Rachel is an excellent narrator. Two quality documentaries.
| 5 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:20:28pm |
Convergence of the nuts.
According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Roeder belonged to an anti-government extremist group called the Sovereign Citizen Movement, which believes that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 6 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:25:10pm |
Someone besides me said it best (I paraphrase as best I can remember) George Tiller had already been shot once as a result of doing his job, and yet he didn't back down and continued to do it. That is a level of bravery normally only seen among police officers and soldiers...
| 7 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:30:10pm |
Wow were is everybody?
I guess I'll just go for a 15 min or so walk, this thread is bound to catch fire sooner or later, abortion threads always do....
| 8 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:32:46pm |
This just in: Dana Loesch is a cut-rate Coulter for teabagger sensibilities.
| 9 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:32:54pm |
What I found most haunting from the bits of Rachel's show that I watched was the absolute pride the anti-choice spokespeople took with their actions. They really are the Christian equivalent of Al Qaeda...twisting religious text to suit their needs...I know that offends a few people, but trust me, people like Randall Terry are a cancer on this planet just like Osama bin Laden is...they'll manipulate their followers into doing whatever they can.
| 10 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:34:55pm |
re: #8 Charles
Dana Loesch: "I will not have my sons grow up in a world where the new original sin is being a man."
She sure knows how to throw out the victim chum.
| 11 |
Winny Spencer Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:37:06pm |
re: #8 Charles
Yes, talk about a depressing contrast between the outside and the inside. Absolutely vile.
| 12 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:39:37pm |
re: #7 jamesfirecat
I suspect that many people are not knowing where to go from here on this issue.
After a while, defending against the robotic onslaught of atavistic zombies wears out... I'm afraid to say. This is a lesson for politics and society - stamina wins the day. There is kind of a fashion-like nature to politics, and what is out of fashion gets recycled after a time... note the JBS, Buchanan, etc. If one hangs around enough decades eventually one gets their turn again.
I checked out Esther's latest tweets/facebook and she is still at it - claiming Miller is the victim in AK, pushing theocratic candidates in the lower 48, attacking NPR (wanting to defund it, evidently being too ignorant of the fact that NPR gets very little tax money), etc.
These are robo-zombies from the past. I was catching up on this year's DWTS episodes and couldn't help but notice Esther's daughter Bristol standing out for being, well, vacuous (not talking about the dancing here.) There just wasn't much there there. I'm not picking on Bristol - she's what one would expect of a teenager with very limited time to develop a self-actualized personality. Yet I've been struck by how little she has to offer because her mother, who isn't a teenager, really doesn't have much more there there than her teenager daughter.
So, to end this long ramble, it doesn't surprise me that there isn't much grumbling over abortion here because the emptier headed folk don't hang around here much anymore because frankly they've been shown up as having too many specious arguments to be taken seriously.
| 13 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:42:43pm |
re: #8 Charles
This just in: Dana Loesch is a cut-rate Coulter for teabagger sensibilities.
Who?
/snicker
| 14 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:43:17pm |
Just got this comment at my blog:
"Do you think that the British people should sit back and do nothing as their country turns into an Islamic Sharia state? And if they fight back, then they are neo-Nazis? Do you prefer someone like Lauren Booth over the EDL?"
WTF? If you're not Pam Geller then you're Lauren Booth?
| 15 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:44:42pm |
re: #6 jamesfirecat
Word. Tiller was a courageous hero, a man with a spine of gleaming steel. Terry, on the other hand, is a disgusting pile of garbage.
| 16 |
the yankee Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:45:54pm |
I doubt I am the first one to point this out and this is off topic, but I do find it funny that the ads that are displaying right now on this blog are for Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnel. I don't mind this I just wonder what the expression on Charles face is when he sees this. I know he isn't no fanboy of the Dems but I am pretty sure that he despises those two.
| 17 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:47:30pm |
re: #12 freetoken
Wouldn't it be awesome if NPR just up and decided not to take anymore federal funds, and held a press conference on it declaring "Now what, bitches"!!
| 18 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:50:37pm |
re: #17 Slumbering Behemoth
Wouldn't it be awesome if NPR just up and decided not to take anymore federal funds, and held a press conference on it declaring "Now what, bitches"!!
They shake your hand and they smile
And they buy you a drink
They say we'll be your friends
We'll stick with you till the end
Ah but everybody's only
Looking out for themselves
And you say well who can you trust
I'll tell you it's just
Nobody else's money -
Money changes everything
Money changes everything
We think we know what we're doin
We don't pull the strings
It's all in the past now
Money changes everything
| 19 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:51:43pm |
re: #16 the yankee
I am sure he is smiling when he spends the money received for hosting the advertisements.
| 20 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:52:56pm |
re: #14 Alouette
...as their country turns into an Islamic Sharia state...
2.7% of the UK population are so powerful, they can destroy counting ability in the rest of the population.
| 21 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:54:32pm |
re: #16 the yankee
I doubt I am the first one to point this out and this is off topic, but I do find it funny that the ads that are displaying right now on this blog are for Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnel. I don't mind this I just wonder what the expression on Charles face is when he sees this. I know he isn't no fanboy of the Dems but I am pretty sure that he despises those two.
His exact expression is
"$!$" last time I checked.
Charles has made it quite clear he doesn't mind taking the wing nuts' add money while slamming them all day long.
| 22 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:56:15pm |
re: #21 jamesfirecat
Besides, it's not like he's taking money from or making direct agreements with any of these campaigns. That's not how advertisements work on the internet.
| 23 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 5:56:53pm |
re: #8 Charles
This just in: Dana Loesch is a cut-rate Coulter for teabagger sensibilities.
She's a talking point with legs. Her appearance on Maher a week ago was par for the course. She insisted repeatedly that the $787 Bil stimulus ($250 Bil of which was tax cuts) was actually more expensive than the wars we've fought in the Mid East.
When proven wrong by the panel, she simply repeated the talking point. And of course she ignored the larger point of it all as brought up by others: the war spending, like it or not, is for nation building on the other side of the planet.
The stimulus, OTOH, is for, you know, Americans and the money is spent here. But somehow that's unpatriotic in Dana's world.
| 24 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:01:58pm |
re: #8 Charles
Dana Loesch?
Never heard of her before.
Bad as I hate to, guess I'll go do the search engine thing.
Dang, Charles... I've never heard of 99% of the trip nuts that you mention here. That's how I hear about 'em.
Just have to assume DL is a nut, too, until I read a bit and find out what kind of nut... or maybe a jujubean.
| 25 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:02:06pm |
Randall Terry is a despicable creature.
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you... I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
| 26 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:03:41pm |
re: #9 darthstar
What I found most haunting from the bits of Rachel's show that I watched was the absolute pride the anti-choice spokespeople took with their actions. They really are the Christian equivalent of Al Qaeda...twisting religious text to suit their needs...I know that offends a few people, but trust me, people like Randall Terry are a cancer on this planet just like Osama bin Laden is...they'll manipulate their followers into doing whatever they can.
If Randall Terry thought he could get anywhere convincing people to fly planes into buildings, I have no doubt that he would.
| 27 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:03:45pm |
re: #24 Capitalist Tool
The name sounds familiar to me but I too don't keep up on all the personalities... there are just too many to track.
| 28 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:04:44pm |
re: #25 jaunte
Randall Terry is a despicable creature.
"Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you!"
| 29 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:05:04pm |
re: #25 jaunte
I don't think he's worshiping the god he thinks he is.
| 30 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:06:22pm |
OT:
Frontline is covering BP's business culture on PBS tonight.
Don't miss TV.
| 31 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:07:31pm |
re: #5 jaunte
Convergence of the nuts.
There is a significant political divide in beliefs about the origin of human beings, with 60% of Republicans saying humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago, a belief shared by only 40% of independents and 38% of Democrats.
I didn't know that but it doesn't surprise me. There seems to be a grand unified nut culture in this country, with different types of issues interchangeably sharing adherents on a regular basis. For example, Bloody Randall Terry has most recently been in the news for inciting Middle Eastern terrorists and aiding Taliban recruitment by publicly threatening to burn Korans. What is the common ground between Islamophobia and Anti-abortion extremism, two seemingly unrelated issues? The answer is beguiling simple and familiar: It is fundamentalist Christianity and the vast network of churches, ministries, and free-lance crazies who grind it various axes.
They are also the driving force behind creationism and climate change denial.
| 32 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:07:49pm |
Excellent post Charles.
Everyone should be appalled at these creatures. Everyone should point out how many abortions are necessary for medical reasons. Everyone should point out how many of them get abortions themselves only to show up protesting again later - because their special circumstances were the justified ones - but no-one else's.
Everyone should take the time to point out that these medieval misogynistic throwbacks are utter scum.
| 33 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:08:32pm |
re: #25 jaunte
Randall Terry is a despicable creature.
"Hate is good"?! That man is not a Christian by any standard that I'm familiar with. He sounds more like Mao tse-Tung.
| 34 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:08:51pm |
Submitted as evidence that lies never truly die but are just recycled when needed - latest from the Heritage Foundation:
How the “Scientific Consensus” on Global Warming Affects American Business—and Consumers
It may seem to be off topic, but it's not, really. Look at those places that the Kochs and Pope fund, and then look at Heritage's (or several of the other recipients of the money) position on abortion.
The Heritage Foundation is just doing the work for which they were paid:
| 35 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:09:41pm |
re: #14 Alouette
Just got this comment at my blog:
"Do you think that the British people should sit back and do nothing as their country turns into an Islamic Sharia state? And if they fight back, then they are neo-Nazis? Do you prefer someone like Lauren Booth over the EDL?"
WTF? If you're not Pam Geller then you're Lauren Booth?
America is beating them to it. If the Paulians and the modern GOP take over that is. Sharia, backwards Christianity, it's all the same really. They just shout different things when they are odious, intolerant, backwards, misogynistic, anti-intellectual, homophobic and violent.
| 37 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:11:03pm |
re: #25 jaunte
Randall Terry is a despicable creature.
Talk about the dark side... He sounds like Darth f'n Vader. Together, can we rule the Galaxy Randall?
| 38 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:11:11pm |
re: #28 jamesfirecat
"Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you!"
"Stay on Target!"
| 39 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:12:13pm |
re: #31 Shiplord Kirel
PIMF
"beguilingly"
Also, "anti-abortion" should not have been capitalized.
| 40 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:13:35pm |
re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote
Talk about the dark side... He sounds like Darth f'n Vader. Together, can we rule the Galaxy Randall?
More like Palpatine. Vader tends to do his own killing, while Palpatine prefers to kill at one (or more) removed.
| 41 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:14:01pm |
| 42 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:14:20pm |
re: #34 freetoken
Submitted as evidence that lies never truly die but are just recycled when needed - latest from the Heritage Foundation:
How the “Scientific Consensus” on Global Warming Affects American Business—and Consumers
It may seem to be off topic, but it's not, really. Look at those places that the Kochs and Pope fund, and then look at Heritage's (or several of the other recipients of the money) position on abortion.
The Heritage Foundation is just doing the work for which they were paid:
Excellent post.
It should be noted that the Heritage Foundation was also opposed to laws that prevented US businesses from employing child labor overseas, trading in blood diamonds and trading in blood gold.
No one should be surprised that tehy don't like AGW science either. However, if they actually cared about economics and looked at things like the Russian crop failure, they would sing a different tune.
Of course, the GOP has never cared about what was economically good for America. They only care about what is good for the corporate interests of their donors.
| 43 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:14:34pm |
Those who defended the murder of Dr. Tiller just exemplify a more extreme version of the outlook that causes so many on the right to justify the head stomping in KY.
When blinded by partisanship (or extremist religious views) just about everything can be justified. Especially when you've successfully demonized your opponents, fellow Americans though they may be, as evil unAmerican tyrants.
| 44 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:15:27pm |
re: #32 LudwigVanQuixote
I've been reading interesting stats about abortions this past week.
Turns out statistics are kept on the reasons given for having the abortions, as example; 'don't want anyone to know they had sex' or 'don't want anyone to know they were pregnant', i.e. babies having babies, physically/emotionally immature females in a very bad spot.
| 45 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:15:46pm |
re: #43 palomino
Those who defended the murder of Dr. Tiller just exemplify a more extreme version of the outlook that causes so many on the right to justify the head stomping in KY.
When blinded by partisanship (or extremist religious views) just about everything can be justified. Especially when you've successfully demonized your opponents, fellow Americans though they may be, as evil unAmerican tyrants.
Oh no it's so much more than that. Look at the writings of them. These are weak beta males trying to show their toughness and overcompensate for being losers.
| 46 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:15:58pm |
re: #10 jaunte
Dana Loesch: "I will not have my sons grow up in a world where the new original sin is being a man."
As opposed to the original idea behind Original Sin, which blames women for everything that's wrong in the world?
Pfft. Whatever.
| 47 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:16:28pm |
re: #44 Capitalist Tool
I've been reading interesting stats about abortions this past week.
Turns out statistics are kept on the reasons given for having the abortions, as example; 'don't want anyone to know they had sex' or 'don't want anyone to know they were pregnant', i.e. babies having babies, physically/emotionally immature females in a very bad spot.
And how many of the "can't let their parents find out" come from religious Christian homes?
| 48 |
Randall Gross Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:17:01pm |
Meanwhile, Operation Rescue is still out there enabling the crazies through their pet Theocrat politicians. They just won a court victory at the KS Supreme Ct. which allows the bogus 107-count case their pet attack dog, Phil Kline, filed before he was run out of office. Phil Kline was also the guy who filed the charges against Tiller, without consulting Foulston, who you saw in the documentary.
I figure he's kicked back and just waiting to run again for some office somewhere.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 49 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:17:07pm |
re: #46 Lidane
As opposed to the original idea behind Original Sin, which blames women for everything that's wrong in the world?
Pfft. Whatever.
You really need to see my newest mini-blog post. Warning though, you will get angry at the end of it.
| 50 |
Eclectic Infidel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:18:47pm |
It would be interesting to hear Naso Tang's perspective. I know he's a staunch defender of abortion rights, and has actively volunteered in the past with clinics in Florida(?). Is Naso still among us?
| 51 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:21:16pm |
re: #43 palomino
Those who defended the murder of Dr. Tiller just exemplify a more extreme version of the outlook that causes so many on the right to justify the head stomping in KY.
When blinded by partisanship (or extremist religious views) just about everything can be justified. Especially when you've successfully demonized your opponents, fellow Americans though they may be, as evil unAmerican tyrants.
And for those who need a visit from the Magical Balance Fairy... you're out of luck. She's watching Dancing With The Stars, but I've got some balance for you: Curb stomping like we saw from that Paulian is the same sort of thing the worst kind of Unionists do to strike-breakers. Thus we come the conclusion that the Paulian who yells about "Union Thugs" has gone and done something just as bad as what they do.
And that's the balance moment of the evening.
| 52 |
Ojoe Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:21:22pm |
| 54 |
Obdicut Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:23:28pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
Except that the violence visited upon people trying to unionize back at the birth of labor was far worse than anything labor did.
| 55 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:24:00pm |
| 56 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:24:52pm |
re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote
Oh no it's so much more than that. Look at the writings of them. These are weak beta males trying to show their toughness and overcompensate for being losers.
Which ones, the head stompers or the doctor killers?
But no question there's a victimization complex among many white males who see their birthright being stolen by the big bad "other," led by Obama.
| 57 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:25:37pm |
re: #47 LudwigVanQuixote
I was doing some network 'work' for a city/county health dept. in this state. A very distraught and crying young girl was being counseled about her pregnancy while I was in the room on a different computer.
I've no idea of her religious background, if any, but she was definitely from the bottom rung of the social classes.
I saw her some months later sitting in a chair out front of a little shop, obviously pregnant/near- term and miserable in summer, with the saddest look on her face I'd ever seen on anyone, just like the first time I'd seen her.
I hope she took her vitamins and such.
Maybe city/county helped since she had the good sense to go there in the first place.
I think the lack of decent prenatal nutrition does more harm for the unborn than just about anything other than a mother on drugs.
| 58 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:26:27pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
And for those who need a visit from the Magical Balance Fairy... you're out of luck. She's watching Dancing With The Stars, but I've got some balance for you: Curb stomping like we saw from that Paulian is the same sort of thing the worst kind of Unionists do to strike-breakers. Thus we come the conclusion that the Paulian who yells about "Union Thugs" has gone and done something just as bad as what they do.
And that's the balance moment of the evening.
WTF?
| 59 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:26:59pm |
The sad thing is, the foot soldiers in this anti-abortion movement are being used by evil, cynical creeps for their own profit and power.
These creeps, they know that their marks are absolutely uncritical to the nth degree. In their life, their faith, the facts of the world around them, absolutely uncritical. It makes them easy to lie too, and easy to con them into doing ones bidding. It's like using small, naive children to sell drugs on the street by first getting them addicted.
| 60 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:29:42pm |
Update:
After getting pasted on his defend stomping thread, Rodent has a new one:
It's glorious!
Chuck thinks that the origins of man is what voters are thinking about. Never mind that unemployment is high and the economy is stagnant, voters will be thinking about whether we were created by God, evolved from apes or came from another planet!
Creationism vs. Darwinism, the pressing issue of our times. The economy, National debt and Islamic threat are irrelevant. It’s all about evolution! I’m sure financially struggling Americans are really concerned about the origins of humanity!
Yes, Ricky, it's shocking that the GOP has as a party plank denying the settled science on this. Isn't it odd with all of those things we should worry about they are to a candidate in this election harping on this medieval nonsense? It goes along with that plank of blurring the Separation of Church and State that you defend so much, and the tearing down of fundamental American values that your treasonous soul enjoys.
Moron!
Of course, denying science is a major GOP thing isn't it? It's just what they do with AGW.
Really, the GOP is the party of loons like this. They make the issue and then bitch it is an issue.
| 61 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:29:50pm |
re: #54 Obdicut
Except that the violence visited upon people trying to unionize back at the birth of labor was far worse than anything labor did.
I'm not sure of the history on that, so I'll take your word for it for the time being. My main point was that the wingnuts who excuse that vile man who brutalized a woman are being just as bad (if not worse) as those they claim as their enemies.
| 62 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:30:47pm |
| 63 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:30:50pm |
re: #56 palomino
Which ones, the head stompers or the doctor killers?
But no question there's a victimization complex among many white males who see their birthright being stolen by the big bad "other," led by Obama.
Check out my latest thread post for a more complete view of my take on their psychology. We agree on many things, but that post has many examples.
| 65 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:31:25pm |
re: #55 Amory Blaine
Whoa. WTF is that about? It's not immediately clear in the vid.
| 66 |
Max Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:31:34pm |
As a staunch supporter of the War on Terrorism, I want these extreme anti-choice groups classified as domestic terrorist organizations.
| 67 |
Obdicut Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:32:36pm |
re: #61 Dark_Falcon
I'm not sure of the history on that, so I'll take your word for it for the time being. My main point was that the wingnuts who excuse that vile man who brutalized a woman are being just as bad (if not worse) as those they claim as their enemies.
I'd say much, much worse.
| 68 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:32:47pm |
re: #57 Capitalist Tool
I was doing some network 'work' for a city/county health dept. in this state. A very distraught and crying young girl was being counseled about her pregnancy while I was in the room on a different computer.
I've no idea of her religious background, if any, but she was definitely from the bottom rung of the social classes.
I saw her some months later sitting in a chair out front of a little shop, obviously pregnant/near- term and miserable in summer, with the saddest look on her face I'd ever seen on anyone, just like the first time I'd seen her.I hope she took her vitamins and such.
Maybe city/county helped since she had the good sense to go there in the first place.
I think the lack of decent prenatal nutrition does more harm for the unborn than just about anything other than a mother on drugs.
There is an awful lot to be said about such things. I agree that lack of proper nutrition helps to maintain an underclass too.
I don't judge the choices of people in such situations. I just hope that they were the ones making them and no one compelled them.
| 69 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:33:52pm |
re: #63 LudwigVanQuixote
Check out my latest thread post for a more complete view of my take on their psychology. We agree on many things, but that post has many examples.
Ludwig! How goes it buddy?
| 70 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:34:52pm |
re: #66 Max D. Reinhardt
As a staunch supporter of the War on Terrorism, I want these extreme anti-choice groups classified as domestic terrorist organizations.
I can't for the life of me understand why they are not being pursued as such, and shut down.
| 71 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:36:23pm |
re: #66 Max D. Reinhardt
As a staunch supporter of the War on Terrorism, I want these extreme anti-choice groups classified as domestic terrorist organizations.
Quite Concur.
| 72 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:37:06pm |
| 73 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:37:57pm |
re: #25 jaunte
well, at least he's an honest psycho
| 74 |
Max Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:38:07pm |
The War on Terror does have a homefront and Operation Rescue is the Fifth Column.
| 75 |
Obdicut Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:38:21pm |
re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote
Ludwig:
I just had the great privledge and fun of attending a reading by my friend Robert Alter at CUNY, where he talked about his recent translations of the Wisdom books.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
He's an amazing man; I think his commentary is amazing.
| 76 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:38:40pm |
re: #61 Dark_Falcon
I'm not sure of the history on that, so I'll take your word for it for the time being. My main point was that the wingnuts who excuse that vile man who brutalized a woman are being just as bad (if not worse) as those they claim as their enemies.
You've never heard of union busting?
| 77 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:38:58pm |
re: #54 Obdicut
Except that the violence visited upon people trying to unionize back at the birth of labor was far worse than anything labor did.
My former roommate works for a union (don't want to say which, but it is high on the anti-union hit list.)
One day he was wearing his union shirt while taking out the trash. Some guy from the building (he recognized the man, but the two have never spoke) looked at my friend and whispered something. My friend, who couldn't hear what was whispered, said "excuse me." The man replied very loudly "I called you an asshole" then started talking about how horrible that particular union is, and by extension, how horrible my friend is.
I don't quite get how we got to the point where some people are willing to yell at a stranger for wearing a shirt. It's not just about unions. Where they hell are we as a people when hatred in politics has become so strong that we are willing to yell at people we have never met.
| 78 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:39:12pm |
re: #69 HoosierHoops
Ludwig! How goes it buddy?
hey ,, the collective state of Sooner Nation standing on a window ledge this week after the loss Saturday?
| 79 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:39:46pm |
| 80 |
Obdicut Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:40:07pm |
re: #72 Dark_Falcon
Why do you feel that way? I'm not arguing, just asking.
Because it's a political rally, and keeping violence out of politics is of greater importance than keeping violence out of the workplace. People need to be free and not intimidated in their voting, they need to be able to seek redress without fear.
And because there is still anti-union violence as well as pro-union violence.
| 81 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:40:21pm |
re: #76 WindUpBird
You've never heard of union busting?
oh ,, I thought they were saying Union BUSSING!!!
Nevermind (in my best Emily Litella voice)
| 82 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:42:43pm |
re: #77 Soap_Man
This sort of thing has been around for quite a while. I suspect it's reaching what seems to be a fever pitch for a lot of different reasons, not the smallest of which is a growing lack of interest in researching facts for one's own self.
| 83 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:43:35pm |
re: #77 Soap_Man
I want to add that statement wasn't a "look how horrible the other side is" or to start some kind of pro-union or anti-union argument.
I just want to know what the fuck is wrong with us. How did we get here. On what damn planet is it okay to call a stranger an asshole while taking out the trash, curbing a member of the "other side" or any disgusting behavior I have seen? It's sick.
| 84 |
cliffster Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:44:16pm |
re: #77 Soap_Man
I don't quite get how we got to the point where some people are willing to yell at a stranger for wearing a shirt. It's not just about unions. Where they hell are we as a people when hatred in politics has become so strong that we are willing to yell at people we have never met.
You ever been around the crowds after a Yankees/Red Sox game? Or Eagles/Anyone. And forget about crowds at soccer matches in Europe or South America.
| 85 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:45:03pm |
re: #76 WindUpBird
You've never heard of union busting?
Yes, I have. But the unions used ugly and lethal tactics of their own. More than one union used bombs in its fight with management and those bombs did kill. The bombing of the LA Times building in 1910 is an example. I wasn't questioning that companies were brutal, I was questioning if the unions were better in terms of tactics.
I would like to also point out that union violence was not my point. I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of those who claim to deplore such violence and then turn around and use the same tactics.
| 86 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:45:24pm |
re: #74 Max D. Reinhardt
The War on Terror does have a homefront and Operation Rescue is the Fifth Column.
And Bill O'Reilly has been quite the little helper monkey on this front.
| 87 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:46:08pm |
re: #77 Soap_Man
the hate aimed at unions is way out of scale with any conceivable abuse or damage to society that they could possibly be accused of
| 88 |
PhillyPretzel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:46:26pm |
re: #84 cliffster
Yes some Eagles fans do go overboard. That is why Judge Seamus Patrick McCaffrey started Eagles Court.
| 89 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:47:34pm |
re: #88 PhillyPretzel
Yes some Eagles fans do go overboard. That is why Judge Seamus Patrick McCaffrey started Eagles Court.
Well, if my team sucked as bad I'd be angry too!
/Same with Dallas.
//Playing with fire.
| 90 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:48:15pm |
re: #78 sattv4u2
hey ,, the collective state of Sooner Nation standing on a window ledge this week after the loss Saturday?
It is impossible to understand the passion of OU football unless you live here..
It is life or death to the fans in Oklahoma...I prefer passion in sports...
| 91 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:48:18pm |
re: #88 PhillyPretzel
Yes some Eagles fans do go overboard. That is why Judge Seamus Patrick McCaffrey started Eagles Court.
Ya gotta love a fan base that forces a team to have a jail in the bowels of the stadium!!
| 93 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:48:36pm |
re: #70 Slumbering Behemoth
I can't for the life of me understand why they are not being pursued as such, and shut down.
Because they're the Republican base and they're well armed, playing into their endemic paranoia would only hasten the onset of another civil war. They already believe all abortion is murder, the government moving against them en masse would lend legitimacy to their worst nightmares.
re: #72 Dark_Falcon
Why do you feel that way? I'm not arguing, just asking.
| 94 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:48:46pm |
re: #88 PhillyPretzel
Yes some Eagles fans do go overboard. That is why Judge Seamus Patrick McCaffrey started Eagles Court.
They booed Santa!
I also hear they throw batteries at other players (but that might be the Phillies games)
| 95 |
cliffster Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:49:11pm |
re: #89 Varek Raith
Well, if my team sucked as bad I'd be angry too!
/Same with Dallas.
//Playing with fire.
The man broke his collarbone, for God's sake - have some decency!
| 96 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:49:19pm |
re: #83 Soap_Man
Same as it ever was, Soap. It's difficult to tell if it's getting worse, or it just seems that way because our unprecedented access to information with the help of the internet and the ubiquity of cell phone video cameras.
I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B.
| 97 |
Obdicut Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:49:42pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
I wasn't questioning that companies were brutal, I was questioning if the unions were better in terms of tactics.
You should read this:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
and this:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
| 99 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:49:52pm |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
It is impossible to understand the passion of OU football unless you live here..
It is life or death to the fans in Oklahoma...I prefer passion in sports...
We won! What a game. I was able to watch it on the big screen at a rowdy bar. Good times. MU's first win against OU since 1998.
| 100 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:50:12pm |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
It is impossible to understand the passion of OU football unless you live here..
It is life or death to the fans in Oklahoma...I prefer passion in sports...
One of our offices that I deal with on a daily basis is in Tulsa
The change in their voices from last week to this week is striking
| 101 |
Obdicut Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:50:58pm |
re: #93 goddamnedfrank
God, what they were striking for just seems so... fucking obvious.
The right to use any store, and choose their boarding houses and doctors
| 102 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:50:58pm |
I launched into my story so quick I forgot to say hi to everyone.
I haven't been around for awhile (my job at work changed, and I have much less down time) but I have a lot of fun throwing in the occasional comment here at LGF. I missed it.
| 103 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:51:00pm |
re: #94 Soap_Man
They booed Santa!
I also hear they throw batteries at other players (but that might be the Phillies games)
Yankees ,,, outfield bleacher seats
| 104 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:51:06pm |
re: #93 goddamnedfrank
Because they're the Republican base and they're well armed, playing into their endemic paranoia would only hasten the onset of another civil war. They already believe all abortion is murder, the government moving against them en masse would lend legitimacy to their worst nightmares.
re: #72 Dark_Falcon
| 105 |
PhillyPretzel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:52:12pm |
That is why I do not go to most local sports events. It can be dangerous.
| 106 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:52:18pm |
re: #93 goddamnedfrank
You may well be right. I would just prefer we go after domestic terrorists as we should, regardless of which god (or even no god) they proclaim as their inspiration.
| 107 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:52:32pm |
re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth
Same as it ever was, Soap. It's difficult to tell if it's getting worse, or it just seems that way because our unprecedented access to information with the help of the internet and the ubiquity of cell phone video cameras.
I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B.
Yeah. I'm also pretty young so maybe it has been happening at this level the last two decades, but that I just started noticing more the last few years.
| 108 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:52:52pm |
re: #95 cliffster
The man broke his collarbone, for God's sake - have some decency!
It was a legal hit. The Giants defense owned the Cowboys for most of that game and the Cowboys defense was ineffectual.
| 109 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:53:05pm |
re: #99 prairiefire
We won! What a game. I was able to watch it on the big screen at a rowdy bar. Good times. MU's first win against OU since 1998.
Congrads..Great defense and nice inside running....
/Hold on I'm getting bricks through the window..*wink*
I've only lived here 30 days so it's not the end of the world for me
| 110 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:53:50pm |
re: #109 HoosierHoops
Congrads..Great defense and nice inside running...
/Hold on I'm getting bricks through the window..*wink*
I've only lived here 30 days so it's not the end of the world for me
Don't let the co-eds know that!
| 111 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:54:03pm |
re: #95 cliffster
The man broke his collarbone, for God's sake - have some decency!
Whoopsie.
I haven't been following the season much.
| 112 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:54:14pm |
re: #108 Dark_Falcon
It was a legal hit. The Giants defense owned the Cowboys for most of that game and the Cowboys defense was ineffectual.
The Cowboys are pathetic this year. They have had the opportunity to win every game they lost and blew it.
| 113 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:54:24pm |
re: #111 Varek Raith
Whoopsie.
I haven't been following the season much.
It just happened last night
| 114 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:55:18pm |
re: #107 Soap_Man
Yeah. I'm also pretty young so maybe it has been happening at this level the last two decades, but that I just started noticing more the last few years.
This kind of thing has been going on since human kind invented the second oldest profession. There are times when it is better or worse all throughout human history.
| 115 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:56:03pm |
re: #95 cliffster
The man broke his collarbone, for God's sake - have some decency!
A week old, but...
Tony Romo Asks Doctors To X-Ray His Stuffed Animal's Hand Too
Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo requested that radiologists examining the thumb on his non-throwing hand Monday also X-ray the sore paw of Mr. Snuggy Puff, Romo's stuffed bunny. "He's got a boo-boo and he doesn't feel good, either," said Romo, who wrapped the stuffed animal's left limb in toilet paper to create a makeshift cast. "You need to look inside of it to make sure he can still hop around the pillows before bedtime." Romo, who confirmed he did not cry once during the entire visit to the doctor's office, also told the nurse that Mr. Snuggy Puff needed his own lollipop.
| 116 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:56:06pm |
re: #69 HoosierHoops
Ludwig! How goes it buddy?
Well! Thanks man! How's by you? We are roasting trolls tonight!
| 117 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:56:34pm |
re: #113 sattv4u2
It just happened last night
He'll be out what, 8-10 weeks? Consider that pretty much the entire season.
| 119 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:57:09pm |
re: #101 Obdicut
God, what they were striking for just seems so... fucking obvious.
Here in Chicago demands such as those lead to a nasty strike (and a brutal response) against George Pullman and his company. Pullman was one of the worse exemplars of "company store" tactics. Pullman was so hated when he died that he was buried under multiple layers of steel and concrete to prevent angry workers from digging up his body.
| 120 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:57:32pm |
re: #75 Obdicut
Ludwig:
I just had the great privledge and fun of attending a reading by my friend Robert Alter at CUNY, where he talked about his recent translations of the Wisdom books.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
He's an amazing man; I think his commentary is amazing.
Ohhh! I will have to look into this. I am not familiar with his work.
| 122 |
cliffster Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:58:13pm |
re: #108 Dark_Falcon
It was a legal hit. The Giants defense owned the Cowboys for most of that game and the Cowboys defense was ineffectual.
Who said anything about whether it was a legal hit or not? I'm just saying, the man is in pain, the team is in pain.. would people please give them a reprieve from the barrage of Cowboys-hate? The humanity..
| 123 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:58:26pm |
| 124 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:58:27pm |
re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote
Well! Thanks man! How's by you? We are roasting trolls tonight!
Haven't seen any here yet. I do have a bag of charcoal, though.
| 125 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:59:34pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
Here in Chicago demands such as those lead to a nasty strike (and a brutal response) against George Pullman and his company. Pullman was one of the worse exemplars of "company store" tactics. Pullman was so hated when he died that he was buried under multiple layers of steel and concrete to prevent angry workers from digging up his body.
Didn't he invent his own currency for the glorified shanty town his employees lived in? It was like making Disney employees live in Disney World and pay them in Mickey Money, or whatever its called.
| 126 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:59:40pm |
re: #122 cliffster
Who said anything about whether it was a legal hit or not? I'm just saying, the man is in pain, the team is in pain.. would people please give them a reprieve from the barrage of Cowboys-hate? The humanity..
Live by the self-described "America's Team", die by...
| 127 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:00:52pm |
re: #123 sattv4u2
I KNEW I should have left a minute ago!!
Just admit you missed me. I say reload.
/
| 128 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:00:59pm |
re: #107 Soap_Man
Take the fate of this poor bastard for example:
According to Plutarch, Herennius first slew him, then cut off his head. On Antony's instructions his hands, which had penned the Philippics against Antony, were cut off as well; these were nailed and displayed along with his head on the Rostra in the Forum Romanum according to the tradition of Marius and Sulla, both of whom had displayed the heads of their enemies in the Forum. Cicero was the only victim of the proscriptions to be displayed in that manner. According to Cassius Dio[47] (in a story often mistakenly attributed to Plutarch), Antony's wife Fulvia took Cicero's head, pulled out his tongue, and jabbed it repeatedly with her hairpin in final revenge against Cicero's power of speech.
| 129 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:01:39pm |
re: #124 Dark_Falcon
Haven't seen any here yet. I do have a bag of charcoal, though.
look at my mini blog.
| 130 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:01:44pm |
| 131 |
cliffster Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:02:10pm |
re: #126 austin_blue
Live by the self-described "America's Team", die by...
Well, it does help with merchandise sales. Yankees and Cowboys - hated by many, t-shirts purchased by many more.
| 132 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:02:24pm |
Anyone who bitches about unions ought not do it on the weekend, or when their kids are in school.
| 133 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:02:57pm |
re: #125 Soap_Man
Didn't he invent his own currency for the glorified shanty town his employees lived in? It was like making Disney employees live in Disney World and pay them in Mickey Money, or whatever its called.
Goofey Gold?
Disney Dollars?
Bambi Bucks?
Daffey Dimes?
| 134 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:03:25pm |
re: #130 HoosierHoops
CCA! What up bro?
Looking for new job. I actually think tomorrow might be my last here. Bummer.
| 135 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:03:51pm |
re: #128 Slumbering Behemoth
Take the fate of this poor bastard for example:
Roman history is Miss S's specialty. She has some interesting stories to say the least. The Romans were basically the mafia without the loafers.
| 136 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:04:06pm |
re: #125 Soap_Man
Didn't he invent his own currency for the glorified shanty town his employees lived in? It was like making Disney employees live in Disney World and pay them in Mickey Money, or whatever its called.
No, not by the time of that strike (1894). Company script was made illegal in the late 1870's. Pullman built his own town to get around that, though.
| 137 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:04:07pm |
re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar
Just admit you missed me. I say reload.
/
hehe
Actually am getting ready to leave, as soon as the Celtics/ Heat game is over
((2:00 left ,,, 83-75 Boston up)
| 138 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:04:20pm |
You know it says something about LGF that we find unions a more contentious and debate worthy issue than abortion... I'm just not sure what...
| 139 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:05:38pm |
re: #138 jamesfirecat
You know it says something about LGF that we find unions a more contentious and debate worthy issue than abortion... I'm just not sure what...
Shhh.... Don't open that door. I hate abortion debates. They never go anywhere.
| 140 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:06:28pm |
re: #14 Alouette
Just got this comment at my blog:
"Do you think that the British people should sit back and do nothing as their country turns into an Islamic Sharia state? And if they fight back, then they are neo-Nazis? Do you prefer someone like Lauren Booth over the EDL?"
WTF? If you're not Pam Geller then you're Lauren Booth?
as eine Britisher tommy - i'm fairly certain we are not becoming a sharia state.
Excuse me while i pop my head out of the door............... i can confidently state that my (and my fellow countrymen) not having joined the EDL has not caused the sky to fall in.
| 141 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:06:37pm |
re: #139 Soap_Man
Shhh... Don't open that door. I hate abortion debates. They never go anywhere.
I agree
NOBODIES mind is going to be changed
NOBODY will back down
Talk about your classic lose/ lose issue
| 142 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:06:52pm |
re: #139 Soap_Man
Shhh... Don't open that door. I hate abortion debates. They never go anywhere.
I'm with you. Nobody ever wins that debate. It just leaves a lot of wounded lizards laying on the floor licking their wounds.
| 143 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:06:52pm |
re: #131 cliffster
Well, it does help with merchandise sales. Yankees and Cowboys - hated by many, t-shirts purchased by many more.
And yet the Rangers blew the Yankees away. I also think they will win the Series this year. A more well-rounded team than the Giants.
| 144 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:06:54pm |
re: #135 LudwigVanQuixote
The sure took their politics pretty fuckin' seriously. Damn.
| 145 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:07:21pm |
Ya wanna do unions? Ya wanna do feminism? Here:
| 146 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:07:59pm |
re: #143 austin_blue
And yet the Rangers blew the Yankees away. I also think they will win the Series this year. A more well-rounded team than the Giants.
Josh Hamilton used to live a mile from my house.
| 147 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:08:21pm |
re: #133 sattv4u2
"Would you like some Itchy and Scratchy money?" "What's Itchy and Scratchy money? "It's the same as regular money, but more fun."
| 148 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:08:35pm |
re: #143 austin_blue
And yet the Rangers blew the Yankees away. I also think they will win the Series this year. A more well-rounded team than the Giants.
I will root for the Rangers this year. I wish it was the Cubs but I'm just going to have to wait till next year (again).
| 149 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:08:51pm |
re: #146 Cannadian Club Akbar
Josh Hamilton used to live a mile from my house.
Nolan Ryan once blew his nose in my zip code!!
| 150 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:08:55pm |
re: #139 Soap_Man
Shhh... Don't open that door. I hate abortion debates. They never go anywhere.
Dude if we were going to have one we already would have, this is a thread about George Tiller after all....
| 151 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:09:36pm |
re: #148 NJDhockeyfan
I will root for the Rangers this year. I wish it was the Cubs but I'm just going to have to wait till next year (again).
By the time the Cubs win, we'll be feeding you pudding and pills!!
| 152 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:10:03pm |
re: #138 jamesfirecat
You know it says something about LGF that we find unions a more contentious and debate worthy issue than abortion... I'm just not sure what...
It used to be you couldn't even say the word without a shitstorm of uninformed, emotional fire and brimstone hurled at you. Those folks have moved on out of here after the Great Darwin Divide took place.
| 153 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:10:28pm |
| 154 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:10:43pm |
re: #150 jamesfirecat
Dude if we were going to have one we already would have, this is a thread about George Tiller after all...
I know. But I didn't want you to jinx it. Like talking to a pitcher in the middle of a no-hitter.
| 155 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:10:49pm |
re: #141 sattv4u2
I agree
NOBODIES mind is going to be changed
NOBODY will back down
Talk about your classic lose/ lose issue
You say that like Dark Falcon is going to suddenly decide he wants to join his local Blog Posters 490 or I'm going to start bitching about how the blue collar thugs are out to steal the hard earned profits of the corporations that so generously employ them when all is said and done with this debate....
| 156 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:13:20pm |
re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar
By the time the Cubs win, we'll be feeding you pudding and pills!!
I watched The Babe Ruth Story on TCM earlier. Babe didn't say very nice things about the Cubs in that movie then beat them in the World Series.
[Sigh]
| 157 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:13:32pm |
good night everybody.
and don't let the blog bugs bite.
| 159 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:14:28pm |
re: #155 jamesfirecat
You say that like Dark Falcon is going to suddenly decide he wants to join his local Blog Posters 490 or I'm going to start bitching about how the blue collar thugs are out to steal the hard earned profits of the corporations that so generously employ them when all is said and done with this debate...
It would be odd for bloggers to have a union. Besides people like Charles, most bloggers don't spend much time or make any money.
"We demand at least 25 cents and hour and a five-hour work week!! Or else we are walking!"
| 160 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:14:32pm |
And on that note, the long quiet ride home beckons
| 161 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:14:56pm |
re: #132 LudwigVanQuixote
Anyone who bitches about unions ought not do it on the weekend, or when their kids are in school.
We've got a local blowhard on morning radio here, who is an unrepentant tea-bagger, Creationist, Shiite Baptist, and anti-Unionist. He's also a former cop.
His name is Sam Cox at KLBJ 590.
He's retired, so he doesn't want anyone to fuck with his Social Security, MediCare, teach science (he's a high school grad, only), deny school prayer, or police unions, which are Killer Bee!
Not that he's a hypocrite or anything.
| 162 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:15:02pm |
re: #158 sattv4u2
Final
Boston Celtics 88
Miami Heat 80
Love it. The Heat have become the Yankees/Cowboys of the NBA.
| 163 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:15:26pm |
re: #160 sattv4u2
And on that note, the long quiet ride home beckons
I'll send you an Anthrax CD. Or just some Anthrax.:)
| 164 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:16:29pm |
re: #162 Soap_Man
Love it. The Heat have become the Yankees/Cowboys of the NBA.
Having Lebron James on your team will do that for you.
| 165 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:17:13pm |
re: #161 austin_blue
We've got a local blowhard on morning radio here, who is an unrepentant tea-bagger, Creationist, Shiite Baptist, and anti-Unionist. He's also a former cop.
His name is Sam Cox at KLBJ 590.
He's retired, so he doesn't want anyone to fuck with his Social Security, MediCare, teach science (he's a high school grad, only), deny school prayer, or police unions, which are Killer Bee!
Not that he's a hypocrite or anything.
That kind of radio personality seems out of character for Austin, somehow.
| 166 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:17:25pm |
re: #159 Soap_Man
It would be odd for bloggers to have a union. Besides people like Charles, most bloggers don't spend much time or make any money.
"We demand at least 25 cents and hour and a five-hour work week!! Or else we are walking!"
[Link: imgsrv.gocomics.com...]
| 167 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:19:29pm |
re: #165 jaunte
That kind of radio personality seems out of character for Austin, somehow.
It's Texas. Even in liberal areas there are bound to be some wingnuts. Everything is bigger in Texas. Even the wingnuts are nuttier.
| 168 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:19:43pm |
re: #164 Dark_Falcon
Having Lebron James on your team will do that for you.
"Don't mind me, just going to go on national TV to piss all over an entire an American city ... What do you mean that was an asshole thing to do? ... Fine, I'm making a list in my head of all you people who were mean to me."
| 169 |
Max Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:20:28pm |
Charles,
Have you considered adding a Facebook "Like" button to LGF?
| 170 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:20:50pm |
re: #159 Soap_Man
It would be odd for bloggers to have a union. Besides people like Charles, most bloggers don't spend much time or make any money.
"We demand at least 25 cents and hour and a five-hour work week!! Or else we are walking!"
Whenever my kid complains about the genuine crap his Silicon Swamp bosses pull, I ask him "Why haven't you started a Code-monkey's Guild?"
| 171 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:21:15pm |
re: #159 Soap_Man
It would be odd for bloggers to have a union. Besides people like Charles, most bloggers don't spend much time or make any money.
"We demand at least 25 cents and hour and a five-hour work week!! Or else we are walking!"
Hey its not an easy job correcting all the people out there who are wrong on the internet!
| 172 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:21:48pm |
re: #170 Decatur Deb
Whenever my kid complains about the genuine crap his Silicon Swamp bosses pull, I ask him "Why haven't you started a Code-monkey's Guild?"
| 173 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:21:52pm |
re: #125 Soap_Man
Didn't he invent his own currency for the glorified shanty town his employees lived in? It was like making Disney employees live in Disney World and pay them in Mickey Money, or whatever its called.
Pullman started paying his employees in what he called Pullman Scrip, which could only be spent in the town and could not be exchanged for actual money.
And while running your own town according to your crazy fuck rules is kind of terrifying just on the face of it, things only got worse when the company started going downhill and everyone's wages were cut. To compliment the imaginary wage cuts, rent and the imaginary prices at the company stores were kept right where they were, squashing employees between a financial hammer and anvil. The situation eventually exploded into a strike that got so out of control that federal troops had to be brought in.
How much did the workers hate Pullman? When he died, they had to bury his body in a steel and concrete vault, which was itself buried under a few tons of concrete. Why? Because--and we're not making this up--they were afraid that employees would dig up and beat the shit out of his corpse, otherwise.
The 6 Most Horrific Bosses of All Time (Pullman is #6, which means there were 5 more horrific than he was)
| 175 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:23:46pm |
My GF lives in Hyde Park. So, I gotta say, fuuuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk!!! As if driving there wasn't already a pain in the ass.
| 176 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:24:11pm |
re: #170 Decatur Deb
Whenever my kid complains about the genuine crap his Silicon Swamp bosses pull, I ask him "Why haven't you started a Code-monkey's Guild?"
| 177 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:24:22pm |
Alrighty, gotta run. Tomorrow night at this time I should be back here full time. See ya'll.
| 179 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:25:05pm |
re: #178 wozzablog
besides, i'm not even here................ yes, thats it................
*is gone in a cloud of smoke*
| 180 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:25:40pm |
re: #168 Soap_Man
"Don't mind me, just going to go on national TV to piss all over an entire an American city ... What do you mean that was an asshole thing to do? ... Fine, I'm making a list in my head of all you people who were mean to me."
The funniest line of all time in sports...I'm taking my talents to south beach...
We sports fans have used it in every known way to mankind..
When I have to go poop I say the same line to my buddies...
The possibilities are endless
/Someday some lizard will flounce to that line..I promise you
| 182 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:27:04pm |
re: #170 Decatur Deb
Whenever my kid complains about the genuine crap his Silicon Swamp bosses pull, I ask him "Why haven't you started a Code-monkey's Guild?"
because organizing cats is even harder than herding them?
| 183 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:28:31pm |
re: #182 engineer dog
because organizing cats is even harder than herding them?
Yeah--he says they're all "unique".
| 184 |
brownbagj Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:30:09pm |
As a Christian, I want to say loudly and clearly that I abhor this act of violence in God's name.
It sickens me that some would try to twist the words of Jesus Christ to do these acts of terror. Jesus never resorted to these things, and on this planet, we are supposed, as Christians live our life like Jesus did. One of repentance, peace, goodwill and love to others...even those who may stand against us.
I have stated that I am for a woman's right to choose, but even if I were not for that, I would stand against this violence.
I am sick in my heart about those who do these things in God's name. They only hurt his cause, not help it.
| 185 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:31:10pm |
Rep. Rangel likely to represent himself at November ethics trial
Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) will likely represent himself at his mid-November ethics trial, setting up a potential spectacle less than two weeks after what’s expected to be a disappointing — if not devastating — election for Democrats.
Rangel and his attorney, Leslie Berger Kiernan, and her legal team parted ways earlier this month, according to sources, leaving little time before the Nov. 15 trial for another lawyer to take the case and prepare.
It is unclear whether Rangel or Kiernan severed the attorney-client relationship, though Rangel had complained publicly about how much he was spending on legal bills. Neither Rangel’s office nor Kiernan returned a request for comment.
Defending yourself without a lawyer hasn't worked out very well with past criminals.
| 186 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:31:47pm |
I think most of the reflex anti-union sentiment people have comes from their idea that one day they'll magically become Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, and supporting a union feels like giving up the fantasy.
| 187 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:32:00pm |
re: #183 Decatur Deb
Yeah--he says they're all "unique".
that's how people describe us when they're being polite
| 188 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:32:29pm |
re: #185 NJDhockeyfan
Rep. Rangel likely to represent himself at November ethics trial
Defending yourself without a lawyer hasn't worked out very well with past criminals.
"The lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."
| 189 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:33:38pm |
re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote
You really need to see my newest mini-blog post. Warning though, you will get angry at the end of it.
I just finished reading that. What a bunch of ignorant tools.
There is no defense and no justification for what happened to that woman. Period. The fact that anyone is making excuses for it just shows how tiny their brains are and should be a red flag to any women in their lives.
| 190 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:34:19pm |
re: #173 Alouette
Pullman started paying his employees in what he called Pullman Scrip, which could only be spent in the town and could not be exchanged for actual money.
And while running your own town according to your crazy fuck rules is kind of terrifying just on the face of it, things only got worse when the company started going downhill and everyone's wages were cut. To compliment the imaginary wage cuts, rent and the imaginary prices at the company stores were kept right where they were, squashing employees between a financial hammer and anvil. The situation eventually exploded into a strike that got so out of control that federal troops had to be brought in.
How much did the workers hate Pullman? When he died, they had to bury his body in a steel and concrete vault, which was itself buried under a few tons of concrete. Why? Because--and we're not making this up--they were afraid that employees would dig up and beat the shit out of his corpse, otherwise.
The 6 Most Horrific Bosses of All Time (Pullman is #6, which means there were 5 more horrific than he was)
Great post!
| 191 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:35:24pm |
re: #189 Lidane
I just finished reading that. What a bunch of ignorant tools.
There is no defense and no justification for what happened to that woman. Period. The fact that anyone is making excuses for it just shows how tiny their brains are and should be a red flag to any women in their lives.
Did you notice how they complain that "women are too shallow" to go out with them? It is always, someone else's fault.
| 192 |
Soap_Man Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:37:09pm |
re: #185 NJDhockeyfan
Rep. Rangel likely to represent himself at November ethics trial
Defending yourself without a lawyer hasn't worked out very well with past criminals.
re: #188 Soap_Man
"The lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."
He is a lawyer, right? He's a Democrat in Congress, so I just assumed.
| 193 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:38:26pm |
| 194 |
Ojoe Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:38:27pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
Striking miners in the west blew up a whole ore processing building by sending a load of dynamite into it on a flume, or some such conveyance, if I recall correctly.
| 195 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:39:54pm |
Shutting down in a bit, so here's the updated list of the Lizard anti-nominees:
26 Oct summary:
These are the anti-nominees running in this election:
Michele Bachmann (R - Mars)
Rand Paul, R, KY, Senate.
Ron Paul, R TX, US House
Kesha Rogers, D, TX US House?
Carl Paldino, R, NY, Governor
Sharon Angle, R, Nevada, Senate
Christine O'Donnell, R, Delaware, Senate
Joe Miller, R(TP), AK Senate
Ken Buck - R - Colorado, Senate
Bill Brady - R - Illinois, Governor
Jason Plummer - R - Illinois, Lt. Governor
Rick Perry - R - Texas, Governor
Jan Brewer, R, AZ, Governor
Ron Johnson, R WI Senate
People have suggested individuals not running this cycle, who should be given advance tickets for the 2012 Crazy Train:
Sarah Palin, R(TP) AK
Rick Santorum, R, PA
There is room for more, and that Democrat is looking lonely. If more are added to the Lizard Sanity Check page, I'll add them before election day.
| 196 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:41:09pm |
re: #194 Ojoe
Striking miners in the west blew up a whole ore processing building by sending a load of dynamite into it on a flume, or some such conveyance, if I recall correctly.
Google the Molly Maguires. Organizing was a war, and both sides knew it.
| 197 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:41:12pm |
re: #190 LudwigVanQuixote
Great post!
I didn't actually write that, it's an excerpt from the Cracked article.
| 198 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:41:36pm |
re: #165 jaunte
That kind of radio personality seems out of character for Austin, somehow.
Austin is a liberal town, but when there is a Conservative talk show, all the Cons go there. The "Liberal" member of the troika is no more liberal than I am a Christian, but he still gets called a Socialist,
This is, after all, Texas, where dinosaurs roamed with men.
| 199 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:42:59pm |
re: #175 Soap_Man
My GF lives in Hyde Park. So, I gotta say, fuuuccckkk!!! As if driving there wasn't already a pain in the ass.
Get a couple bottles of wine and get over there early.
| 200 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:43:01pm |
re: #185 NJDhockeyfan
Rep. Rangel likely to represent himself at November ethics trial
Defending yourself without a lawyer hasn't worked out very well with past criminals.
Get the popcorn. This should be entertaining.
| 201 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:44:46pm |
re: #194 Ojoe
Striking miners in the west blew up a whole ore processing building by sending a load of dynamite into it on a flume, or some such conveyance, if I recall correctly.
Were people inside it at the time?
| 202 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:44:48pm |
re: #173 Alouette
Pullman started paying his employees in what he called Pullman Scrip, which could only be spent in the town and could not be exchanged for actual money.
The second Mexican Revolution was caused in part by shit like that, as were various uprisings all through Latin America. Read about the haciendas sometime, or the encomienda system that preceded them.
Pullman's corpse being beaten would've been the least of his worries south of the border. People literally went to war over that kind of garbage.
| 203 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:45:14pm |
re: #194 Ojoe
Striking miners in the west blew up a whole ore processing building by sending a load of dynamite into it on a flume, or some such conveyance, if I recall correctly.
The Coeur d 'Alene Mines strike of 1899:
The miners felt they were underpaid for their hard work and they and their union leaders would go to any lengths to bring this fact to the mine owners’ attention. George A. Pettibone stole 200 pounds of dynamite, packed it to the top of a hill back of the Frisco-Helena, mounted it on a float and sent it down the flumes into the smelter building and the whole works blew sky-high. The mine detectives promptly caught up with him and shipped him off to the prison at Boise, Idaho.The miners at that time were getting $2.50 a day for their labor and in April of 1899 the union went on strike at the Last Chance, the Bunker Hill and Sullivan Mines for a raise to $3.50 a day. The superintendents of the mines consented to an increase of the $3.50 for the mockers and miners and $3 for the other laborers but would not concede to the union demand for $3.50 all around.[Link: www.ruralnorthwest.com...]
| 204 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:47:57pm |
Colored Onions iz stealin' mah elektshuns!
/Wingnuts
| 205 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:48:41pm |
| 206 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:48:43pm |
re: #192 Soap_Man
re: #188 Soap_Man
He is a lawyer, right? He's in Congress, so I just assumed.
[Link: www.ehow.com...]
FTFY. Rangel's a tool and should've been bounced out on his ass ages ago, but he's not unique as a lawyer in Congress.
| 207 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:51:12pm |
re: #189 Lidane
I just finished reading that. What a bunch of ignorant tools.
There is no defense and no justification for what happened to that woman. Period. The fact that anyone is making excuses for it just shows how tiny their brains are and should be a red flag to any women in their lives.
I doubt Sarah Palin even knows they exist.
| 208 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:51:43pm |
Fresh from the fever swamp!
Lauren Valle, Lizzie Borden of the Left! Squeaky Fromme is also mentioned.
| 210 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:52:39pm |
re: #3 Slumbering Behemoth
This is actually a different video from the segment she did on the leaflets. This one is significantly longer, very well done and well researched. Certainly worth your time, I think.
Well, yes. Not that it changes the conclusion. The anti-abortion movement conducts itself in such a manner as to ensure that from time to time, abortion providers will be murdered. They don't explicitly call for murder, not in so many words. That would be indelicate. But they single out individuals, fix the target, freeze the target, personalize the target, and make highly public all the details that a would-be assassin would need.
Unsurprisingly, assassins volunteer themselves.
| 212 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:52:51pm |
'Nite, all. I'll be mostly lurking until the DC rallies, unless I get a Flikr site set up for photos.
| 213 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:53:33pm |
re: #202 Lidane
The second Mexican Revolution was caused in part by shit like that, as were various uprisings all through Latin America. Read about the haciendas sometime, or the encomienda system that preceded them.
Pullman's corpse being beaten would've been the least of his worries south of the border. People literally went to war over that kind of garbage.
It was a very bitter war whose climax at the two battles Celaya saw more than 20,000 men engaged in each fight. In the end, 2nd Celaya proved the superiority at that time (1915), with Pancho Villa's troops being slaughtered by Federale machine guns and artillery. The courage of the Division del Norte worked against them, by keeping them in a kill zone till they were bled white.
/History tidbit
| 214 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:53:33pm |
| 216 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:54:18pm |
re: #197 Alouette
I didn't actually write that, it's an excerpt from the Cracked article.
Amazing, isn't it, that a humor website does more regular fact checking than the majority of political blogs. Excepting this one, of course.
| 217 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:54:26pm |
It's the NBA season opener and the Lakers open tonight..
This is my 3rd year calling out basketball here.. Thanks Charles...
Go pro ball! The greatest sport of all time
| 218 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:54:28pm |
re: #173 Alouette
Apparently this happened in several other places, including Ludlow, CO.
| 219 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:54:48pm |
re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth
Amazing, isn't it, that a humor website does more regular fact checking than the majority of political blogs. Excepting this one, of course.
See Daily Show/Colbert Report....
| 220 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:55:06pm |
re: #186 jaunte
I think most of the reflex anti-union sentiment people have comes from their idea that one day they'll magically become Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, and supporting a union feels like giving up the fantasy.
The Warren Buffet they want to become really is a fantasy too, and doesn't resemble the real world version all that much:
Taxing the rich, he said, is the best way for the government to boost its income.
"The question is, Do we get more money from the person that's gonna serve me lunch today, or do we get it from me? I think we should get it from me," he said.
Those who want to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy, which will expire at year's end, say heavy taxes will hurt small businesses, many of which are run by wealthy individuals. Senator Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) have said tax hikes for the rich would affect half of all small business income. Of course, that depends on how you define "small business."
Buffett responded to that argument by saying the government needs to close the deficit somehow, and if it doesn't tax the rich, it will have to delay paying back its debt -- which amounts to borrowing from the larger economy.
"If you get a hundred billion more of taxes -- just pick a number -- from people like me at the top, it means you borrow a hundred billion less out of the economy. Somebody's gonna come up with a hundred billion," he said. "You're taking the money from the economy either way. The only question is if you take it by borrowing or by taxes."
| 221 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:56:00pm |
Dianne Feinstein: outlook "bad"
In the not to be missed category, Sen. Dianne Feinstein stepped way out of the spin cycle yesterday, as she is often wont to do.
Feinstein was at a campaign event for Sen. Barbara Boxer in San Jose,and was asked by KTVU's Randy Shandobil how things were going, and she replied, "bad."
Feinstein is Boxer's campaign co-chair.
Shandobil asked whether Feinstein meant in the House, which Democrats are widely expected to lose, and Feinstein didn't answer. Later, after the event, she (un)clarified this much: "I think the prevailing view is, and I don't think this is necessarily correct, is that it's a very difficult time, there's no question about that."
Boxer is locked in a toss up with Republican Carly Fiorina. Although an LAT poll over the weekend put Boxer ahead 8 points, most other polls, including internal GOP polls, show Fiorina about a point behind.
In the not to be missed category, Sen. Dianne Feinstein stepped way out of the spin cycle yesterday, as she is often wont to do.
Feinstein was at a campaign event for Sen. Barbara Boxer in San Jose,and was asked by KTVU's Randy Shandobil how things were going, and she replied, "bad."
Feinstein is Boxer's campaign co-chair.
Shandobil asked whether Feinstein meant in the House, which Democrats are widely expected to lose, and Feinstein didn't answer. Later, after the event, she (un)clarified this much: "I think the prevailing view is, and I don't think this is necessarily correct, is that it's a very difficult time, there's no question about that."
Boxer is locked in a toss up with Republican Carly Fiorina. Although an LAT poll over the weekend put Boxer ahead 8 points, most other polls, including internal GOP polls, show Fiorina about a point behind.
This tight race in California is making Feinstein nervous.
| 222 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:56:49pm |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
It is impossible to understand the passion of OU football unless you live here..
It is life or death to the fans in Oklahoma...I prefer passion in sports...
Well, what is their real alternative? Cheering for the Dallas Cowboys?
| 223 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:56:54pm |
re: #211 jaunte
Alinsky playbook!
Yes, Saul Alinsky was so evil he would have used the beating of one of his female clients against those who beat her up. That bastard.
/dripping
| 224 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:57:29pm |
re: #221 NJDhockeyfan
Dianne Feinstein: outlook "bad"
In the not to be missed category, Sen. Dianne Feinstein stepped way out of the spin cycle yesterday, as she is often wont to do.
Feinstein was at a campaign event for Sen. Barbara Boxer in San Jose,and was asked by KTVU's Randy Shandobil how things were going, and she replied, "bad."
Feinstein is Boxer's campaign co-chair.
Shandobil asked whether Feinstein meant in the House, which Democrats are widely expected to lose, and Feinstein didn't answer. Later, after the event, she (un)clarified this much: "I think the prevailing view is, and I don't think this is necessarily correct, is that it's a very difficult time, there's no question about that."
Boxer is locked in a toss up with Republican Carly Fiorina. Although an LAT poll over the weekend put Boxer ahead 8 points, most other polls, including internal GOP polls, show Fiorina about a point behind.
This tight race in California is making Feinstein nervous.
I just hope Fiorina doesn't end up doing for California what she's done for some of the companies she's worked for....
| 225 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:58:34pm |
re: #221 NJDhockeyfan
Well, if Boxer loses, then at least Feinstein well have better a co-Senator.
| 226 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:58:48pm |
re: #224 jamesfirecat
I just hope Fiorina doesn't end up doing for California what she's done for some of the companies she's worked for...
She can't make it any worse than it already is.
| 227 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:59:20pm |
| 228 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 7:59:34pm |
re: #225 Dark_Falcon
Well, if Boxer loses, then at least Feinstein well have better a co-Senator.
Why do you say that Dark?
| 229 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:01:24pm |
re: #186 jaunte
I think most of the reflex anti-union sentiment people have comes from their idea that one day they'll magically become Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, and supporting a union feels like giving up the fantasy.
It's not a reflex. It comes of having watched Tony Boyle arrange the murder of Jock Yablonski. Case closed, unions play dirty.
| 230 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:01:41pm |
re: #227 jamesfirecat
Yee of little faith.
Yeah, cause she did so well at Hewlett-Packard.
/dripping.
| 231 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:01:50pm |
re: #221 NJDhockeyfan
Of course, I am not in 100% political lockstep with Feinstein (duh!), but I do like her. She's worked with local (close to my area) republicans to draft tougher laws to fight criminal street gangs. I definitely admire her for that.
| 232 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:03:03pm |
re: #231 Slumbering Behemoth
Of course, I am not in 100% political lockstep with Feinstein (duh!), but I do like her. She's worked with local (close to my area) republicans to draft tougher laws to fight criminal street gangs. I definitely admire her for that.
I didn't know that. That's great. I hate fucking violent street gangs.
| 233 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:03:30pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
It's not a reflex. It comes of having watched Tony Boyle arrange the murder of Jock Yablonski. Case closed, unions play dirty.
So one murder makes the unions just as bad as the companies that have oppressed them for years and have committed vastly more than one murder?
My MBF radar has been pinged.
| 234 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:03:33pm |
re: #147 jamesfirecat
"Would you like some Itchy and Scratchy money?" "What's Itchy and Scratchy money? "It's the same as regular money, but more fun."
Sounds like currency made from nettles and poison ivy. Would probably have a dampening effect on the economy though.
| 235 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:03:58pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
It's not a reflex. It comes of having watched Tony Boyle arrange the murder of Jock Yablonski. Case closed, unions play dirty.
Yes, she said mildly, but that was forty years ago.
| 236 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:04:28pm |
re: #230 Varek Raith
Yeah, cause she did so well at Hewlett-Packard.
/dripping.
she almost destroyed HP single handed.. That's a fact
And I dare anyone to take that issue on here...
| 237 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:04:46pm |
re: #226 NJDhockeyfan
She can't make it any worse than it already is.
You obviously weren't living here during the many regular Gray Davis rolling black outs. Things can always get worse.
| 238 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:04:46pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
It's not a reflex. It comes of having watched Tony Boyle arrange the murder of Jock Yablonski. Case closed, unions play dirty.
KBR is responsible for the deaths of US soldiers.
Case close, corporations are murderers.
| 239 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:05:26pm |
re: #224 jamesfirecat
I just hope Fiorina doesn't end up doing for California what she's done for some of the companies she's worked for...
Did you ever notice how many of these GOP supposed corporate whizzes, ran their companies into the ground?
| 240 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:06:08pm |
re: #236 HoosierHoops
she almost destroyed HP single handed.. That's a fact
And I dare anyone to take that issue on here...
Like I said:
Did you ever notice how many of these GOP supposed corporate whizzes, ran their companies into the ground?
Perhaps that is where their crazy economic theories come from.
| 241 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:06:31pm |
re: #232 NJDhockeyfan
I didn't know that. That's great. I hate fucking violent street gangs.
High Fucking Five on that!
/also, you probably should be having sexual relations with them if you hate them so much, just sayin'...
///
| 242 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:07:34pm |
re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth
Amazing, isn't it, that a humor website does more regular fact checking than the majority of political blogs. Excepting this one, of course.
I love their historical articles.
| 243 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:08:04pm |
re: #221 NJDhockeyfan
Kinda curious how the media/democrat party will spin this next week. A point of reference should be 2002 when the Republicans added two Senate and eight House seats. This is rare for the party in power. I get the feeling we'll hear more about the evil Chamber of Commerce and their nefarious "foreign money." Heh.
| 244 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:08:30pm |
re: #228 jamesfirecat
Why do you say that Dark?
Because Barbara Boxer is a nasty, uber-partisan, person. Carly Fiorina would be an improvement on her.
| 245 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:08:51pm |
| 246 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:08:54pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
It's not a reflex. It comes of having watched Tony Boyle arrange the murder of Jock Yablonski. Case closed, unions play dirty.
I think if you compare the violent history of labor to the violent history of (for lack of a better term) 'bosses,' the bosses fare a lot worse.
| 247 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:08:55pm |
re: #243 rwmofo
Kinda curious how the media/democrat party will spin this next week. A point of reference should be 2002 when the Republicans added two Senate and eight House seats. This is rare for the party in power. I get the feeling we'll hear more about the evil Chamber of Commerce and their nefarious "foreign money." Heh.
Well, we already know how the wingnuts will spin it if the TP doesn't do well.
ACORN VOTER FRAUDITY!!!
| 248 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:09:30pm |
re: #243 rwmofo
Kinda curious how the media/democrat party will spin this next week. A point of reference should be 2002 when the Republicans added two Senate and eight House seats. This is rare for the party in power. I get the feeling we'll hear more about the evil Chamber of Commerce and their nefarious "foreign money." Heh.
Or they could just play it like they did in 1994.... throw up their hands and say "Fine you guys want to be in charge, you fix the nation for a change."
And when things are even worse in 2012 because the Republicans have no plan to help America beyond TAX CUTS!!!111, Obama will win a second term without even breaking a sweat.
| 249 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:10:05pm |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
Because Barbara Boxer is a nasty, uber-partisan, person. Carly Fiorina would be an improvement on her.
Can you give me some general proof of this "uber-partisanship" you speak of?
(Don't live anywhere near California...)
| 250 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:10:27pm |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
I don't care for either of them. Probably just gonna write my own name in on the ballot.
| 251 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:10:57pm |
re: #250 Slumbering Behemoth
I don't care for either of them. Probably just gonna write my own name in on the ballot.
NO.
PUT "DARTH VAREK RAITH".
| 252 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:10:59pm |
re: #230 Varek Raith
Yeah, cause she did so well at Hewlett-Packard.
/dripping.
HP was her at her most successful. Just look at Compaq or DEC... oh, right... Well, Lucent is still survives, sort of.
| 253 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:11:10pm |
re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote
Like I said:
Did you ever notice how many of these GOP supposed corporate whizzes, ran their companies into the ground?
Perhaps that is where their crazy economic theories come from.
She had no clue about vision of buying out Compaq and integrating a failed hardware company into HP..I had friends in HP..It was embarrassing and almost fatal
| 254 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:11:14pm |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
Because Barbara Boxer is a nasty, uber-partisan, person. Carly Fiorina would be an improvement on her.
I am going to come and smack you some day! Exactly what is not uber partisan about the GOP campaign or Fiorina?
| 256 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:13:36pm |
re: #251 Varek Raith
I was actually thinking of writing in "Anybody Else, Please".
| 257 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:13:46pm |
re: #247 Varek Raith
Well, we already know how the wingnuts will spin it if the TP doesn't do well.
ACORN VOTER FRAUDITY!!!
Can't you see! It's already happening!!11ty
| 258 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:14:02pm |
re: #243 rwmofo
Kinda curious how the media/democrat party will spin this next week. A point of reference should be 2002 when the Republicans added two Senate and eight House seats. This is rare for the party in power. I get the feeling we'll hear more about the evil Chamber of Commerce and their nefarious "foreign money." Heh.
media/democrat party? You are delusional. The right has Fox which is slightly to the right of John Birch, while the rest of the media is pretty centrist. The media overall, on the national scale has a right wing bias because of this.
Further, for there to be a liberal biased Dem media, the Dems would have to have a consistent message.
You are delusional on two fronts.
| 259 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:14:10pm |
Betcha Mrs Clinton periodically flings a lamp against the wall and yells "I can't believe I lost to a teleprompter!"
| 260 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:14:22pm |
re: #249 jamesfirecat
Can you give me some general proof of this "uber-partisanship" you speak of?
(Don't live anywhere near California...)
My best friend interned for Phil Gramm back in the 1990's. He met Barbara Boxer and got to see how she acted and what she said when the cameras were not rolling. And she came across to him as very hostile to any Republican and the speeches she gave as an example of what she "could say" were purely vicious. National Review also had an article on her recently, and it also brought up some of what she's said and done to win their ire (and mine too).
| 262 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:15:27pm |
re: #259 rwmofo
Betcha Mrs Clinton periodically flings a lamp against the wall and yells "I can't believe I lost to a teleprompter!"
Oh god not this thing again....
Die meme die!
| 263 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:15:38pm |
re: #259 rwmofo
Sarah Palin didn't beat Clinton out for anything. I don't get it.
/now you're just asking for it...
| 264 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:07pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
My best friend interned for Phil Gramm back in the 1990's. He met Barbara Boxer and got to see how she acted and what she said when the cameras were not rolling. And she came across to him as very hostile to any Republican and the speeches she gave as an example of what she "could say" were purely vicious. National Review also had an article on her recently, and it also brought up some of what she's said and done to win their ire (and mine too).
Could you tell me what those things are, or give me a link to the article?
| 265 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:12pm |
re: #254 LudwigVanQuixote
Fiorina is a business executive, not a career politician. That alone sets her aside from the likes of career partisan politicians. Say what you will about all else. But that is an outsider crashing in. Not another good ole boy stepping in to the expected spot.
| 266 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:36pm |
| 267 |
Virginia Plain Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:36pm |
Appropriate song when you think of the goons that stomp out and kill opposition:
| 268 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:44pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
Fiorina is a business executive, not a career politician. That alone sets her aside from the likes of career partisan politicians. Say what you will about all else. But that is an outsider crashing in. Not another good ole boy stepping in to the expected spot.
She's a failed business executive.
| 269 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:45pm |
re: #258 LudwigVanQuixote
"The right has Fox which is slightly to the right of John Birch, while the rest of the media is pretty centrist. "
Hilarious. I needed that.
| 270 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:16:50pm |
re: #252 wlewisiii
HP was her at her most successful. Just look at Compaq or DEC... oh, right... Well, Lucent is still survives, sort of.
Heh.
| 271 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:17:00pm |
re: #253 HoosierHoops
Back when I was in college, HP was considered one of the choicest of employees for the new graduating engineers to target for their first job. I seem to remember that I interviewed with the HP rep when they came to campus, though I was not an engineering major, after I had decided to not pursue an advanced degree at that time.
It is tragic to see how that famous American company was put through the wringers by new upper management over time, as the new hot shot executives came in with the non-engineering background and tried to capitalize on the hard-won praise the earlier HP products garnered.
| 272 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:17:26pm |
re: #271 freetoken
Back when I was in college, HP was considered one of the choicest of employees
pimf "employers"
| 273 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:17:50pm |
re: #233 jamesfirecat
So one murder makes the unions just as bad as the companies that have oppressed them for years and have committed vastly more than one murder?
My MBF radar has been pinged.
Companies NO LONGER have that option. Unions still play dirty. Murder is just the summit of an extensive mountain range.
Once upon a time, unions were a necessary evil, a counterweight to another evil that was as yet untamed by law. Now, quite rightly, the appropriate laws are on the books. Corporations can no longer play Pullman.
Unions, today, are primarily organizations that speak power to truth. Public unions have a dirty cycle: the state grants them outsized benefits. They kick in big campaign contributions, in cash and in kind, funded by union dues. Their contributions fuel the effectiveness of their lobbying, and their benefits go up further. This cycle impoverishes the state, but so what? That's not the union's lookout.
| 274 |
Interesting Times Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:17:52pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
Sorry, but Carly Failorina destroyed people's lives. So-called snippy remarks on Boxer's part aren't even in the same zip code. Failorina and her ilk represents the most odious, worthless, pernicious aspects of corporatism. The further away they are from any position of power, the better.
| 275 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:18:26pm |
re: #262 jamesfirecat
Oh god not this thing again...
Die meme die!
Yeah. It's like something one would read over at Hot Air.
| 276 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:19:10pm |
re: #258 LudwigVanQuixote
The right has Fox which is slightly to the right of John Birch, while the rest of the media is pretty centrist.
Bwahahahahahaha! This is the funniest post I've read all week. Thanks for the laugh!
| 277 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:19:36pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
Fiorina is a shitty business executive who ran several companies into the ground, not a career politician. That alone sets her aside from the likes of career partisan politicians, since her failures got her multi-million dollar golden parachutes and the GOP nomination for Senate instead of getting laughed out of the public eye, demon sheep and all.
FTFY
| 278 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:19:46pm |
| 279 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:20:07pm |
| 280 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:20:22pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
It's funny.
When it's a CEO that did a lousy job at a company, folks are all "He/She ran that company into the ground, how could he/she possibly be a good politician".
When it's a CEO that did a good job at a company, folks are all "Running a business isn't anything like running a country/county/district/city, how could he/she possibly be a good politician".
I only hope I live to see the day when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates run for the same seat. The interwebs will run red in a river of blood.
| 281 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:20:40pm |
re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote
Like I said:
Did you ever notice how many of these GOP supposed corporate whizzes, ran their companies into the ground?
Perhaps that is where their crazy economic theories come from.
Maybe that's why they went into politics. Given the discussions here the field does seem to attract more than its share of loudmouth incompetents.
| 282 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:21:26pm |
re: #268 jamesfirecat
As judged by her critics, sure. And Boxer has failed to recognize my rights of self defense-both spoken and voted accordingly. So I'm a critic of Boxer.
But really I was answering Ludwig. Stark contrast exists between say Angle and Fiorina in suitability for public office. Even her ads are more sane than most.
| 284 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:22:24pm |
re: #282 Rightwingconspirator
As judged by her critics, sure. And Boxer has failed to recognize my rights of self defense-both spoken and voted accordingly. So I'm a critic of Boxer.
But really I was answering Ludwig. Stark contrast exists between say Angle and Fiorina in suitability for public office. Even her ads are more sane than most.
I don't think just by her "critics" she can be judged as failure by objective measurements as well.
Was HP doing better or worse when she left then when she started working for them?
| 285 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:22:45pm |
| 286 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:23:03pm |
Bush was a Dhimi and had Muslim extremists in the White House and the Pentagon!!11ty He also never reversed Roe v. Wade!!11ty
Bush was a secret leftist!!11ty
//
| 287 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:23:05pm |
re: #281 oaktree
Maybe that's why they went into politics. Given the discussions here the field does seem to attract more than its share of loudmouth incompetents.
I figured she decided to go into politics because every semi-sane corporation took one look at HP and wouldn't consider hiring her.
| 288 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:23:47pm |
re: #281 oaktree
Maybe that's why they went into politics. Given the discussions here the field does seem to attract more than its share of loudmouth incompetents.
Well said!
| 289 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:23:57pm |
re: #264 jamesfirecat
Could you tell me what those things are, or give me a link to the article?
You'll likely need a subscription, but here goes:
A Chance at Boxer by Jay Nordlinger
Excerpt:
She is possibly the leftmost member of the Senate, Boxer is. And she is maybe the most partisan in style. (It’s been 15 years since Howard Metzenbaum served.) Boxer can be strident, shrill, and other things you must never call a woman. She is quite unlike the other senator from California, Dianne Feinstein. DiFi’s a liberal Democrat, all right: but she occasionally departs from liberal orthodoxy, and you can work with her. Boxer does not mingle much with Republicans. And, ideologically, she’s true-blue, or true-something. Boxer has a good deal in common with Speaker Nancy Pelosi: Both women grew up in the East, Boxer in Brooklyn, Pelosi in Baltimore; and both went west to San Francisco, to become scrappy heroines of the Left.
Boxer was born in 1940, and made it to the Marin County Board of Supervisors in 1976. Six years later, she made it to the U.S. House. While there, she was known for her fierce opposition to the Gulf War, and for her perhaps fiercer opposition to Clarence Thomas. As a House member, she could not vote on that Supreme Court nominee: but she marched, literally, in favor of his accuser, Anita Hill. “Believe the woman” was an article of Democratic faith in those days; with the rise of Bill Clinton, that would go out the window.
In 1992, Boxer ran for the Senate, beating two other experienced Democrats in a primary. She then beat Bruce Herschensohn in the general: when it was revealed, at the last minute, that he had been to a strip club (with his girlfriend and another couple). Who knew that the California electorate was so square? Several other women were elected to the Senate at the same time, which is why 1992 was dubbed “the Year of the Woman.” Boxer has had two races since, both of them relative cakewalks for her.
How left-wing has she been in the Senate? Consider a single fact: She was the only senator to vote against accepting the Ohio results in the 2004 presidential election, Bush versus Kerry. Conspiracy types claimed that the Republicans had rigged things in Ohio; Boxer wanted a debate. Mainly, she has been known for her staunch, total support of abortion, and that includes partial-birth abortion, of course. In one infamous, creepy exchange with Sen. Rick Santorum in 1999, she had trouble saying that a baby had a right to life even if it made it out of its mother’s womb.
| 290 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:24:21pm |
re: #280 Slumbering Behemoth
It's funny.
When it's a CEO that did a lousy job at a company, folks are all "He/She ran that company into the ground, how could he/she possibly be a good politician".
When it's a CEO that did a good job at a company, folks are all "Running a business isn't anything like running a country/county/district/city, how could he/she possibly be a good politician".
I only hope I live to see the day when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates run for the same seat. The interwebs will run red in a river of blood.
So we can choose between a stylish, intuitive, well-designed government that costs a fortune
and
a government that crashes periodically, but is cheap and gets the job done?
| 291 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:25:37pm |
re: #280 Slumbering Behemoth
I only hope I live to see the day when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates run for the same seat. The interwebs will run red in a river of blood.
Both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates have enough sense to avoid politics. Less pay, less control over the outcome of an idea, and even more idiots hassling you about how they think you should do your job? Pfft.
Besides, Gates is far more effective as a philanthropist. At least then he can get things done.
| 292 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:26:29pm |
re: #278 jamesfirecat
BlackwaterXe begs to differ.
Correction: US companies no longer have the option to murder their own workers.
| 293 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:26:58pm |
re: #284 jamesfirecat
I don't think just by her "critics" she can be judged as failure by objective measurements as well.
Was HP doing better or worse when she left then when she started working for them?
Worse. It was sad.
| 294 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:27:14pm |
re: #280 Slumbering Behemoth
It's funny.
When it's a CEO that did a lousy job at a company, folks are all "He/She ran that company into the ground, how could he/she possibly be a good politician".
When it's a CEO that did a good job at a company, folks are all "Running a business isn't anything like running a country/county/district/city, how could he/she possibly be a good politician".
I only hope I live to see the day when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates run for the same seat. The interwebs will run red in a river of blood.
Real business people rarely go into politics, unless they are like Cheney and see a chance to change the system in favor of their holdings - which he did in many ways and made a fortune out of it.
In general, there is much more real money to be made in business. Those guys hire politicians.
That leaves the failed business guys like W. and Fiorina and Barton to go into politics for the most part.
| 295 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:27:26pm |
re: #284 jamesfirecat
I'm not trying to post in support of Fiorina except in comparison to the wild and woolly GOP candidates like Rand Paul and ODonnell. Please note the "say what you will about the rest" in my post about her. Stark raving sane by that measure. I'll thank you to not confuse that with any kind of entreaty to vote for her. So I have no need to defend her.
| 296 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:27:39pm |
| 297 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:27:39pm |
re: #292 lostlakehiker
Correction: US companies no longer have the option to murder their own workers.
They did however up until Senator Franken came along have the option of making their employees sign away their right to sue if they were raped by their co-workers.
Companies still play dirty they just do it with lawyers....
| 298 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:28:17pm |
re: #292 lostlakehiker
Correction: US companies no longer have the option to murder their own workers.
Unless they are in other nations. Shall we talk third world sweat shops and slave labor for sugar and chocolate? You are treading on some dangerous ground here.
| 299 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:28:19pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
she had trouble saying that a baby had a right to life even if it made it out of its mother’s womb.
Did she say how old the child has to be to earn a right to life?
| 300 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:29:34pm |
re: #295 Rightwingconspirator
I'm not trying to post in support of Fiorina except in comparison to the wild and woolly GOP candidates like Rand Paul and ODonnell. Please note the "say what you will about the rest" in my post about her. Stark raving sane by that measure. I'll thank you to not confuse that with any kind of entreaty to vote for her. So I have no need to defend her.
Would you then kindly admit that she is a failed business woman since it is a clear objective truth and you see no reason to defend her?
Because saying "As judged by her critics, sure." makes it sound like there is some wiggle room.
A lot of wiggle room in fact.
For example: "As judged by his critics, Obama isn't an American Citizen"
| 301 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:29:57pm |
re: #280 Slumbering Behemoth
As bad as her record may be, it is quite aside from my point. I'd love to see a more worthy opponent for Boxer, who I really would like to see move on. To retirement.
| 302 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:30:08pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
My best friend interned for Phil Gramm back in the 1990's. He met Barbara Boxer and got to see how she acted and what she said when the cameras were not rolling. And she came across to him as very hostile to any Republican and the speeches she gave as an example of what she "could say" were purely vicious. National Review also had an article on her recently, and it also brought up some of what she's said and done to win their ire (and mine too).
Yes, but Republicans deserve a lot more harsh language than any Dem really ever says publicly.
| 303 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:31:42pm |
re: #300 jamesfirecat
"As judged by her critics" takes necessary notice of the usual election season histrionics. Nearly always plenty of wiggle room between that sort of thing and the reality.
| 304 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:32:03pm |
re: #303 Rightwingconspirator
"As judged by her critics" takes necessary notice of the usual election season histrionics. Nearly always plenty of wiggle room between that sort of thing and the reality.
But the reality is she ran HP into the ground.
Do you dispute this fact?
| 305 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:32:06pm |
re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote
That leaves the failed business guys like W. and Fiorina and Barton to go into politics for the most part.
Pretty much.
To top it off, people then suggest that that these failed business types actually know about economics and how to turn things around, because they did so well at their jobs, don'tcha know. =P
| 306 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:32:54pm |
re: #284 jamesfirecat
I don't think just by her "critics" she can be judged as failure by objective measurements as well.
Was HP doing better or worse when she left then when she started working for them?
Her vision in tech was suspect...She almost destroyed the company because she did not understand that there is no profit in hardware...It's software and support that creates 80% of the profit..When Sun Micro was selling at 5 bucks a share..Why didn't anybody buy it? The only reason Oracle snatched it was cause of Java code base...Compaq gave her nothing..
Did you guys thing that HP has been building printers or SANS boxes the last couple of years? Sorry to break your hearts.. HP doesn't build them..It is all outsourced...HP doesn't build anything anymore..It's all sourced out..
| 307 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:33:03pm |
re: #291 Lidane
Both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates have enough sense to avoid politics. Less pay, less control over the outcome of an idea, and even more idiots hassling you about how they think you should do your job? Pfft.
Besides, Gates is far more effective as a philanthropist. At least then he can get things done.
SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!
You're ruining my fantasy for a perfect storm of nerd rage combined with partisan rage that will rock the internet to it's very foundations. The flame wars will be so gloriously... er, flamey, that both heads and ethernet cards will explode.
/
| 308 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:33:56pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
You'll likely need a subscription, but here goes:
A Chance at Boxer by Jay Nordlinger
Well done Dark. Thx.
| 309 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:34:11pm |
re: #307 Slumbering Behemoth
SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!
You're ruining my fantasy for a perfect storm of nerd rage combined with partisan rage that will rock the internet to it's very foundations. The flame wars will be so gloriously... er, flamey, that both heads and ethernet cards will explode.
/
Nerd rage!
May your heat sink bracket become dislodged!
/
| 310 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:35:06pm |
re: #302 LudwigVanQuixote
Yes, but Republicans deserve a lot more harsh language than any Dem really ever says publicly.
Phil Gramm didn't deserve what Boxer said. I really wish I could tell you more, but I cannot, due to the need to maintain my friend's privacy. Trust me, Ludwig, Barbara Boxer is not a good person.
| 311 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:35:38pm |
Well, I think California is going to go Dem next week. Brown and Boxer will win.
| 312 |
Eclectic Infidel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:35:56pm |
Just got solicited by a nonprofit group polling for numbers on issues and local elections. Cool beans.
Oh, and today I learned I was accepted to the City College of San Francisco's culinary arts program. Good times.
| 313 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:36:07pm |
re: #235 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, she said mildly, but that was forty years ago.
Sorry, I dropped some 1914 earlier and others have gone back to the late 1800's so everything's is on the table now. Anyway, the important thing to bear in mind is that I'm Spartacus.
| 314 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:36:15pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
You'll likely need a subscription, but here goes:
A Chance at Boxer by Jay Nordlinger
Excerpt:
According to the ADA web-site (A liberal site), Boxer is a hero - meaning she voted 100% with the party. So that makes her a "centrist" or something.
| 315 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:36:54pm |
re: #312 eclectic infidel
Just got solicited by a nonprofit group polling for numbers on issues and local elections. Cool beans.
Oh, and today I learned I was accepted to the City College of San Francisco's culinary arts program. Good times.
Is it still like 15 bucks for a class over there? Not the culinary arts but general classes.
| 316 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:37:11pm |
Colbert: "We're going to take our country back from the people who stole it... by getting elected."
| 317 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:37:16pm |
| 318 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:37:47pm |
re: #314 rwmofo
According to the ADA web-site (A liberal site), Boxer is a hero - meaning she voted 100% with the party. So that makes her a "centrist" or something.
///You mean democrats who see democrats who voted democratic rather than bowing to political pressure as good things? SHOCKING!
| 319 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:38:34pm |
re: #311 Gus 802
Well, I think California is going to go Dem next week. Brown and Boxer will win.
I'm not terribly worried about who get's the gov. seat, and Boxer winning will just end up being "same shit, different day".
I don't think I can possibly any more bored with those two races.
| 320 |
Eclectic Infidel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:39:04pm |
re: #315 Gus 802
Is it still like 15 bucks for a class over there? Not the culinary arts but general classes.
I think it's $26 per unit across the board. Still, I'm going to try for government hand outs Stafford loans.
| 321 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:40:33pm |
re: #316 jaunte
Colbert: "We're going to take our country back from the people who stole it... by getting elected."
ELEKSHUNS IZ TEARANNIE!!
| 322 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:40:34pm |
re: #311 Gus 802
Well, I think California is going to go Dem next week. Brown and Boxer will win.
I predict that Brown will win and Boxer will lose. Which suits me just fine, because Jerry Brown is competent at the job.
| 323 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:40:51pm |
re: #295 Rightwingconspirator
I'm not trying to post in support of Fiorina except in comparison to the wild and woolly GOP candidates like Rand Paul and ODonnell. Please note the "say what you will about the rest" in my post about her. Stark raving sane by that measure. I'll thank you to not confuse that with any kind of entreaty to vote for her. So I have no need to defend her.
I will admit that while I do not plan to vote for Ms. Fiorina, I am deeply grateful that she's merely a lackluster GOP candidate, rather than an ex-witch, or an Angle.
| 324 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:40:51pm |
re: #310 Dark_Falcon
Phil Gramm didn't deserve what Boxer said. I really wish I could tell you more, but I cannot, due to the need to maintain my friend's privacy. Trust me, Ludwig, Barbara Boxer is not a good person.
John McCain isn't a fan of her's either.
...McCain told the crowd at a rally for Fiorina that he has had "the unpleasant experience" of serving with Boxer in the Senate, according to The Los Angeles Times.
"When you hear her say that she supports the men and women in the military, my friends, she does not," McCain said, according to the Times. "Because she has never supported the mission, she has never supported victory whether it be in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or anywhere else in the world. Barbara Boxer wants to wave the white flag of surrender and endanger this nation’s national security. It’s time she went back to San Francisco with Nancy Pelosi.”
| 325 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:41:11pm |
re: #320 eclectic infidel
government hand outsStafford loans
My bread and butter these days, along with the Graduate PLUS loans. Without them, I'd be screwed.
Yay for government funding! My MBA wouldn't be possible otherwise.
| 326 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:41:36pm |
re: #311 Gus 802
Well, I think California is going to go Dem next week. Brown and Boxer will win.
I think Boxer's got it. I am not sure about Jerry.
| 327 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:41:49pm |
re: #319 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm not terribly worried about who get's the gov. seat, and Boxer winning will just end up being "same shit, different day".
I don't think I can possibly any more bored with those two races.
Some would say "better the devil you know..." With Boxer though California will at least retaing a senior Senator that can bring the money in for California and, ironically some would say, California businesses. The reality of course is that Boxer doesn't really affect policy for the state. At least not directly.
| 328 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:42:37pm |
re: #324 NJDhockeyfan
John McCain isn't a fan of her's either.
John McCain has done little to earn my respect between his giving Sarah Palin a shot at a presidency and doing an add with some "local law enforcement" to "complete the fence" and talking with a man who does not represent a town living on the border.
| 329 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:42:42pm |
re: #304 jamesfirecat
Honestly I have seen that point contended. It may well be accurate. I have also seen what else was wrong at the time.
OTH-Have you looked at what she did for Lucent?
Now if we have all this worry about a perhaps failed executive (Lucent results vs HP) being a poor legislator, shall we apply the same hard standard to the incumbent?
How about (by comparison) a checkered record at best, and and a reasonable call for a fresh view being the best thing for for the state at this time?
Next point-If we agreed neither candidate is suitable at this tie would you seriously suggest I vote a write in to unseat Boxer, or what?
| 330 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:43:12pm |
re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist
I think Boxer's got it. I am not sure about Jerry.
RCP average has Brown at +9.3. Even the Fox News poll has him at +9.
| 331 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:43:32pm |
re: #325 Lidane
I know you can't run a higher education facility on unicorn farts and fairy dust, but wouldn't it be nice not to have to go into debt for decades in order to get ahead in life?
| 332 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:43:57pm |
re: #313 goddamnedfrank
Interesting how almost all those who had leadership roles in the Spartacist Uprising came to violent ends. Not just Spartacus, but Crassus, Pompey Magnus, and Julius Caesar all died by the sword.
| 333 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:44:00pm |
re: #329 Rightwingconspirator
Honestly I have seen that point contended. It may well be accurate. I have also seen what else was wrong at the time.
OTH-Have you looked at what she did for Lucent?
Now if we have all this worry about a perhaps failed executive (Lucent results vs HP) being a poor legislator, shall we apply the same hard standard to the incumbent?
How about (by comparison) a checkered record at best, and and a reasonable call for a fresh view being the best thing for for the state at this time?
Next point-If we agreed neither candidate is suitable at this tie would you seriously suggest I vote a write in to unseat Boxer, or what?
Where have I said anything to make you think that I don't feel Boxer is a suitable candidate?
I'm behind her 100% percent.
| 334 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:44:26pm |
re: #300 jamesfirecat
For example: "As judged by his critics, Obama isn't an American Citizen"
Just for discussion, lets stick to sane critics.
| 335 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:44:41pm |
re: #330 Gus 802
Those "debates" didn't help Whitman at all. She just didn't come off well, and when a 72 year old man makes you look old and slow then you've got an image problem.
| 336 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:45:00pm |
re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist
I will admit that while I do not plan to vote for Ms. Fiorina, I am deeply grateful that she's merely a lackluster GOP candidate, rather than an ex-witch, or an Angle.
Yeah, she seems almost likable, and the way she isn't campaigning on the sanctity of rapists passing on their genes by force is comparatively refreshing.
| 337 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:45:55pm |
re: #330 Gus 802
RCP average has Brown at +9.3. Even the Fox News poll has him at +9.
Link.
[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]
| 338 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:46:13pm |
re: #327 Gus 802
I really don't like her, but I don't like the alternative either. Bleh.
| 339 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:46:32pm |
re: #324 NJDhockeyfan
John McCain isn't a fan of her's either.
Barbara Boxer wants to wave the white flag of surrender and endanger this nation’s national security. It’s time she went back to San Francisco with Nancy Pelosi.”
But I'm sure someone who voted for Boxer once said, 'flyover country'.
| 340 |
Eclectic Infidel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:46:50pm |
re: #325 Lidane
My bread and butter these days, along with the Graduate PLUS loans. Without them, I'd be screwed.
Yay for government funding! My MBA wouldn't be possible otherwise.
I'm all for govt funding for education, and not just for academic schools, but for vocational ones as well.
| 341 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:47:02pm |
re: #338 Slumbering Behemoth
I really don't like her, but I don't like the alternative either. Bleh.
Yeah, a new Dem would be more refreshing.
| 342 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:47:23pm |
re: #330 Gus 802
RCP average has Brown at +9.3. Even the Fox News poll has him at +9.
I dunno. I just have this feeling.
We'll see.
| 343 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:47:34pm |
I hope Ms Fiorino feels better soon. A breast reconstruction infection can be very painful.
| 344 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:47:47pm |
re: #333 jamesfirecat
Okay so we disagree on Boxer. I am saying a reasonable case can and has been made against her. 100% behind her? As in a near flawless candidate by your measure? Really?
| 345 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:48:27pm |
re: #332 Dark_Falcon
Interesting how almost all those who had leadership roles in the Spartacist Uprising came to violent ends. Not just Spartacus, but Crassus, Pompey Magnus, and Julius Caesar all died by the sword.
I think it's hard to find any public man of that era who died of natural causes.
| 346 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:48:38pm |
re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth
I know you can't run a higher education facility on unicorn farts and fairy dust, but wouldn't it be nice not to have to go into debt for decades in order to get ahead in life?
No kidding. At least all my loans are federal, though, so in the end I'll only be giving the government even more of my money instead of having to deal with both them and the state. =P
My mother keeps harping on how inexpensive her undergrad was and she can't believe how much it's costing me to get this degree. I had to point out to her that she got her degree back in 1958, and her Master's back in 1972. Things have changed quite a bit since then.
| 349 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:48:53pm |
re: #344 Rightwingconspirator
Okay so we disagree on Boxer. I am saying a reasonable case can and has been made against her. 100% behind her? As in a near flawless candidate by your measure? Really?
As in she's 100% better than her opponent.
| 350 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:49:19pm |
re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist
I will admit that while I do not plan to vote for Ms. Fiorina, I am deeply grateful that she's merely a lackluster GOP candidate, rather than an ex-witch, or an Angle.
Yeah, for those that won't vote for Fiorina they have to admit that at least she's not like the crazies we've been seeing across the country.
| 352 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:49:59pm |
re: #350 Gus 802
You could say the same about Linda McMahon, but I wouldn't vote for either of them.
| 353 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:50:12pm |
| 354 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:50:14pm |
re: #343 prairiefire
I hope Ms Fiorino feels better soon. A breast reconstruction infection can be very painful.
As I said upstream, my grandma found out she'd got hepatitis from her breast cancer surgery, FORTY YEARS after said surgery.
This stuff is tricky. But the articles I read did say that most of these things can be dealt with pretty quickly.
| 355 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:50:46pm |
re: #352 freetoken
You could say the same about Linda McMahon, but I wouldn't vote for either of them.
What about Millicent Fenwick? ;)
| 356 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:50:50pm |
re: #341 Gus 802
I'd be willing to cross party lines if that were the case. As it is, I just can't be bothered to care about either candidate.
| 357 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:51:13pm |
re: #355 Gus 802
Heh, the country club Republicans are the backbone of this nation!
| 358 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:51:25pm |
re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist
My sis in law's body rejected the plastic frame for her new boobie. She was very sick, it was removed, she was much better.
| 359 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:52:11pm |
re: #346 Lidane
No kidding. At least all my loans are federal, though, so in the end I'll only be giving the government even more of my money instead of having to deal with both them and the state. =P
My mother keeps harping on how inexpensive her undergrad was and she can't believe how much it's costing me to get this degree. I had to point out to her that she got her degree back in 1958, and her Master's back in 1972. Things have changed quite a bit since then.
I remember that when I was in college, older people would sometimes tut over our student loans, and tell us how they'd worked their way through college.
That was back when it was fifty bucks a semester at UC Berkeley, and you were basically just working for room and board, but some of them got pretty irritating with it.
| 360 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:52:55pm |
re: #356 Slumbering Behemoth
I'd be willing to cross party lines if that were the case. As it is, I just can't be bothered to care about either candidate.
Yeah. I'm going to vote for the Dem governor for Colorado. It's Hickenlooper. Meh, I don't get that feeling I used to get when I was in my 20s. He's been mayor of Denver for several terms now. Frankly, I see him as favoring established big Denver developers -- i.e. a bit of the yuppie candidate. Still, he sure beats Maes or even worse, Tancredo.
| 361 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:53:07pm |
re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist
I remember that when I was in college, older people would sometimes tut over our student loans, and tell us how they'd worked their way through college.
That was back when it was fifty bucks a semester at UC Berkeley, and you were basically just working for room and board, but some of them got pretty irritating with it.
15 freaking miles, uphill, in a blizzard, on Christmas morning with no shoes.
| 362 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:53:42pm |
re: #358 prairiefire
My sis in law's body rejected the plastic frame for her new boobie. She was very sick, it was removed, she was much better.
You can't always predict this stuff. Glad getting the frame out worked.
| 363 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:54:03pm |
re: #351 Varek Raith
Mine too. One incumbent is running uncontested, and he's one of those "Obama's admin. is tyranny" types. I'll be writing in my name on that one as well.
Honestly, the props are really the only thing I'm motivated about.
| 364 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:54:12pm |
And over at the "Diary of Daedalus", Rodan has posted Ludwig's two responses to my anti-Boxer posts. They are going after Ludwig for saying he wanted to slap me, and me for not going after him for saying that. We really live in their heads.
This is cross posted at Ludwig's mini-blog on Rodan.
| 365 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:54:23pm |
re: #361 Varek Raith
15 freaking miles, uphill, in a blizzard, on Christmas morning with no shoes.
15 miles uphill and that was just to milk the cow. Then I had to chop wood for breakfast then walk another 15 miles to school!
/
| 366 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:54:49pm |
re: #361 Varek Raith
15 freaking miles, uphill, in a blizzard, on Christmas morning with no shoes.
Oh, you've met Mr. Rosenbaum?
//
| 367 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:55:07pm |
re: #364 Dark_Falcon
And over at the "Diary of Daedalus", Rodan has posted Ludwig's two responses to my anti-Boxer posts. They are going after Ludwig for saying he wanted to slap me, and me for not going after him for saying that. We really live in their heads.
This is cross posted at Ludwig's mini-blog on Rodan.
Ha! What an obsessive nut.
| 368 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:55:26pm |
re: #95 cliffster
The man broke his collarbone, for God's sake - have some decency!
Sorry, I'm a Houstonian so I have no decency when it comes to the Dallas Cowboys. As long as Romo's injuries aren't life threatening, I can't work up any tears for the guy.
The one consolation for Dallasites is that their team is 1-5, almost completely out of playoff contention. Therefore the loss of Romo is sort of moot, as the team was going nowhere even when he was healthy.
| 369 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:55:58pm |
Colbert tweets on Glenn Beck's sponsor Food Insurance:
In case of apocalypse, Food Insurance's white milk substitute goes great with a plate of choco-lish chips cookoids.
| 370 |
laZardo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:56:14pm |
I love and hate my meds.
On the one hand they really keep my rage down, on the other I wake up the next morning feeling like a member of the undead.
/also good morning.
| 371 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:56:19pm |
re: #365 Gus 802
15 miles uphill and that was just to milk the cow. Then I had to chop wood for breakfast then walk another 15 miles to school!
/
"...and when we got home, our mum and dad killed us, and danced on our graves singin' 'allelujah!"
| 372 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:57:06pm |
re: #371 SanFranciscoZionist
"...and when we got home, our mum and dad killed us, and danced on our graves singin' 'allelujah!"
Redrum!
/
| 373 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:57:33pm |
re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist
That was back when it was fifty bucks a semester at UC Berkeley, and you were basically just working for room and board, but some of them got pretty irritating with it.
My mom was one of those who worked for room and board, since the dorms she lived in were co-op dorms where the students cooked their own meals and cleaned the building themselves. And her scholarships were like $500 a year or something, and covered the rest.
To put things in perspective, I just spent over $500 in books last week-- for three classes. As soon as that happened, I was in the financial aid office applying for more money. *cries*
She can't even begin to understand how expensive this shit is. I've borrowed almost $40k just for this academic year, and I'll have another year to go after that. I'll be paying things off for years, but it's all worth it to me.
| 374 |
rwmofo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:57:41pm |
re: #368 palomino
Sorry, I'm a Houstonian so I have no decency when it comes to the Dallas Cowboys. As long as Romo's injuries aren't life threatening, I can't work up any tears for the guy.
The one consolation for Dallasites is that their team is 1-5, almost completely out of playoff contention. Therefore the loss of Romo is sort of moot, as the team was going nowhere even when he was healthy.
I live in the Dallas area but am not a Cowboys fan. Wouldn't it be ironic if they started winning without Romo?
| 375 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:59:25pm |
GOP U.S. Senate candidate Carly Fiorina hospitalized with infection
Republican Senate candidate Carly Fiorina was hospitalized Tuesday with an infection stemming from reconstructive surgery she had after recovering from breast cancer, her staff said, and it was uncertain how soon she would resume campaigning.
With the election a week away, the former Hewlett-Packard CEO was forced off the campaign trail to receive antibiotics treatment at an undisclosed hospital. Her campaign at first indicated it would be a one-day absence, but a statement issued Tuesday evening suggested it would be longer.
Well that sucks. I hope she gets better quickly.
| 376 |
Digital Display Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:59:56pm |
re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist
I remember that when I was in college, older people would sometimes tut over our student loans, and tell us how they'd worked their way through college.
That was back when it was fifty bucks a semester at UC Berkeley, and you were basically just working for room and board, but some of them got pretty irritating with it.
I am deeply proud to graduate from college in California...And even more proud that my daughter went to the same school after UC Davis...
| 377 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:00:36pm |
re: #375 NJDhockeyfan
GOP U.S. Senate candidate Carly Fiorina hospitalized with infection
Well that sucks. I hope she gets better quickly.
That I have no reservations about agreeing with you on.
| 379 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:01:39pm |
| 380 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:01:43pm |
re: #375 NJDhockeyfan
GOP U.S. Senate candidate Carly Fiorina hospitalized with infection
Well that sucks. I hope she gets better quickly.
As I said, I've got no idea what her particular case is, but the article I read earlier did seem to suggest that this sort of thing is often quickly treatable. Hopefully she'll be fine soon.
| 381 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:03:07pm |
re: #375 NJDhockeyfan
GOP U.S. Senate candidate Carly Fiorina hospitalized with infection
Well that sucks. I hope she gets better quickly.
Agreed. I can't say I'm a fan, but I'd never wish her or anyone else harm. Hope she gets better soon.
| 382 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:05:10pm |
re: #298 LudwigVanQuixote
Unless they are in other nations. Shall we talk third world sweat shops and slave labor for sugar and chocolate? You are treading on some dangerous ground here.
What kills me is that dangerous ground has been enthusiastically tread by Nixon and every President since. (Free Trade) Then by those corporations who needed to compete for the consumer dollar in the new global economy. (Side note-the bastards see pollution as local but profits global-gah!)
Yet Fiorina gets singled out for this practice? Now that the vaunted Bill Gates gets much of his code done offshore? Something does not add up. Perhaps a look at Barbara Boxers efforts to stop HP or Microsoft or Walmart from offshore sourcing?
A bit more dangerous ground I'd like to point out.
Boxer on China
Voted YES on killing a bill for trade sanctions if China sells weapons.
Vote to table [kill] an amendment that would require sanctions against China or other countries if they were found to be selling illicit weapons of mass destruction.
| 383 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:05:24pm |
re: #360 Gus 802
Yeah. I'm going to vote for the Dem governor for Colorado.
GAH!!! EBIL COMMIE COLABERATOR!!! DESTOYER OF MERICA!!! BAYBE KILLA!!! DICKTATOR!!!
/and other ridiculous, partisan invectives
| 384 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:05:48pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
My best friend interned for Phil Gramm back in the 1990's. He met Barbara Boxer and got to see how she acted and what she said when the cameras were not rolling. And she came across to him as very hostile to any Republican and the speeches she gave as an example of what she "could say" were purely vicious. National Review also had an article on her recently, and it also brought up some of what she's said and done to win their ire (and mine too).
So you're comfortable putting forth a blanket denunciation of Boxer based on 20-year old hearsay?
As for Fiorina, you think she got to be head of a huge corporation by asking what Jesus would do all the time? I'd be willing to bet she used harsh language and was impolite quite often as well.
When Boxer was a little girl there weren't even any women in the US Senate. It shouldn't come as any surprise that she busted balls along the way. How else was she gonna make it? Some of that remains, in the form of a chip on her shoulder. So what?
And she's mean to the other party? Welcome to politics.
| 385 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:06:21pm |
re: #383 Slumbering Behemoth
GAH!!! EBIL COMMIE COLABERATOR!!! DESTOYER OF MERICA!!! BAYBE KILLA!!! DICKTATOR!!!
/and other ridiculous, partisan invectives
Gray Davis!
//Makes sign of the cross.
/
| 386 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:06:27pm |
re: #259 rwmofo
Betcha Mrs Clinton periodically flings a lamp against the wall and yells "I can't believe I lost to a teleprompter!"
Do you have any non-troll contributions to make?
| 388 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:07:45pm |
re: #386 palomino
Do you have any non-troll contributions to make?
I'm just glad that the TOTUS meme gets no traction on LFG.
And with that happy thought on my mind I'm headed to bed see you tommorow guys...
| 389 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:07:49pm |
re: #373 Lidane
To put things in perspective, I just spent over $500 in books last week-- for three classes.
One of the real con-games going on in higher ed is the "textbook" game.
Last year I was at a local college bookstore and decided to check out the prices of some textbooks. I looked at the intro physics text, which was the n'th incarnation of the Halliday and Resnick classic. I used the H&R text way back when... Now the textbook is three textbooks, each cost $100! That's $300 for a year's worth of basic physics textbooks!!
The kicker is, classical physics hasn't changed in the intervening decades (between my college days and today).
All they've done is to add pretty pictures, computer programs, etc.
It's a scam, a tragedy. You could buy a 30 year old H&R physics textbook for $5 and learn the exact same thing that is in the $300 textbooks.
Higher education does need some fundamental reforms.
| 390 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:09:12pm |
| 391 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:11:18pm |
re: #339 SanFranciscoZionist
Barbara Boxer wants to wave the white flag of surrender and endanger this nation’s national security. It’s time she went back to San Francisco with Nancy Pelosi.”
But I'm sure someone who voted for Boxer once said, 'flyover country'.
Kinda funny that all the guys here are worked up because "Boxer isn't a nice person."
So what? That's not why she was elected. And does anyone really think the other 99 senators don't include some really mean and vicious pricks, on both sides?
| 392 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:11:28pm |
News Corp. is threatening not to cover movie releases if its outlets are not granted access to the film's stars.
''They are very quickly becoming the most powerful people in the world,'' News Ltd's entertainment editor-at-large, Rebekah Devlin, said at the Caxtons advertising conference in Australia, as picked up by The Sydney Morning Herald. "More and more actors have it in their contract that they don't want to do publicity for a film. So how are you going to get access to the likes of Katherine Heigl if she's doing a film but refusing to do interviews.''
[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com...]
In contrast, News Corp. still stands behind political candidates who refuse to answer reporters' questions.
| 393 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:11:34pm |
re: #384 palomino
The friend in question has never been wrong about the words he has heard people use, and I have known him for over a decade. So, yes: If says he heard Barbara Boxer say something, I will believe it on his sayso alone.
| 394 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:12:14pm |
Holy cow! This isn't something we want to fail.
Failure Shuts Down Squadron of Nuclear Missiles
President Obama was briefed this morning on an engineering power failure at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming that took 50 nuclear intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), one-ninth of the U.S. missile stockpile, temporarily offline on Saturday.
The base is a main locus of the United States' strategic nuclear forces. The 90th Missile Wing, headquartered there, controls 150 Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles. They're on full-time alert and are housed in a variety of bunkers across several states.
On Saturday morning, according to people briefed on what happened, a squadron of ICBMs suddenly dropped down into what's known as "LF Down" status, meaning that the missileers in their bunkers could no longer communicate with the missiles themselves. LF Down status also means that various security protocols built into the missile delivery system, like intrusion alarms and warhead separation alarms, were offline. In LF Down status, the missiles are still technically launch-able, but they can only be controlled by an airborne command and control platform like the Boeing E-6 NAOC "Kneecap" aircraft, E-4B NAOC aircraft or perhaps the TACAMO fleet, which is primarily used to communicate with nuclear submarines. Had the country been placed on a higher state of nuclear alert, those platforms would be operating automatically because the frequencies used to transmit nuclear codes would be interfacing with separate systems, according to officials.
According to the official, engineers believe that a launch control center computer (LCC), responsible for a package of at least five missiles, usually ten of them, began to "ping" out of sequence, resulting in a surge of "noise" through the system. The LCCs interrogate each missile in sequence, so if they begin to send signals out when they're not supposed to, receivers on the missiles themselves will notice this and send out error codes.
Since LCCs ping out of sequence on occasion, missileers tried quick fixes. But as more and more missiles began to display error settings, they decided to take off-line all five LCCs that the malfunctioning center was connected to. That left 50 missiles in the dark. The missileers then restarted one of the LCCs, which began to normally interrogate the missile transceiver. Three other LCCs were successfully restarted. The suspect LCC remains off-line.
| 395 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:13:00pm |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
Because Barbara Boxer is a nasty, uber-partisan, person. Carly Fiorina would be an improvement on her.
You mean the senator is a hardass?
Say it ain't so, joe!
| 396 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:13:04pm |
re: #374 rwmofo
I live in the Dallas area but am not a Cowboys fan. Wouldn't it be ironic if they started winning without Romo?
That won't happen. Did you see Jon Kitna? His best days are behind him.
| 397 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:13:32pm |
re: #391 palomino
Kinda funny that all the guys here are worked up because "Boxer isn't a nice person."
So what? That's not why she was elected. And does anyone really think the other 99 senators don't include some really mean and vicious pricks, on both sides?
I'm sure she's not a 'nice person'. Neither is Fiorina. "Nice people" have no business running for Senate.
| 398 |
Eclectic Infidel Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:14:02pm |
re: #373 Lidane
I'll be paying things off for years, but it's all worth it to me.
That's how I'm lookin' at it too. Thankfully, CCSF is far, far less expensive than the CA Culinary Academy. Crickey, the CCA was $47K for the entire program.
| 399 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:14:20pm |
re: #395 WindUpBird
You mean the senator is a hardass?
Say it ain't so, joe!
She's also five feet tall. Just about.
| 400 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:15:17pm |
Republicans who sound mean = Tough on the issues.
Democrats who sound mean = Unfit for office.
| 401 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:15:56pm |
re: #395 WindUpBird
Harder on the GOP than the Chinese.
| 402 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:16:17pm |
re: #385 Gus 802
Hey now, I was going for some low level insults. I certainly wasn't gonna drop that atom bomb of an insult on you.
| 403 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:16:35pm |
re: #310 Dark_Falcon
Phil Gramm didn't deserve what Boxer said. I really wish I could tell you more, but I cannot, due to the need to maintain my friend's privacy. Trust me, Ludwig, Barbara Boxer is not a good person.
Gramm's one of the people who has given us the current financial disaster we're weathering
So yeah, if Boxer said something mean about him, I'm not going to shed weepy tears for him
| 404 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:17:10pm |
re: #401 Rightwingconspirator
Harder on the GOP than the Chinese.
I wasn't aware the Chinese were a US political party
| 405 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:17:13pm |
re: #402 Slumbering Behemoth
Hey now, I was going for some low level insults. I certainly wasn't gonna drop that atom bomb of an insult on you.
Deukmejian!
/
| 406 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:17:30pm |
re: #396 palomino
Did you see Jon Kitna? His best days are behind him.
Not only that, but before that game, Kitna hadn't played a single down in two years. The other backup QB, Stephen McGee, was drafted in 2009, but didn't get his first start until a pre-season game against Miami this year.
The Cowboys have depended on Romo for everything for ages now. Losing him will hurt. A lot.
| 407 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:17:45pm |
re: #404 WindUpBird
I wasn't aware the Chinese were a US political party
SECRET INVASION PLANS!
A WITCH TOLD ME!
| 408 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:18:33pm |
re: #388 jamesfirecat
I'm just glad that the TOTUS meme gets no traction on LFG.
And with that happy thought on my mind I'm headed to bed see you tommorow guys...
The teleprompter meme is one of the dumbest, but I think it's easily sold to the unsophisticated who don't understand the device and think it's cheating.
You've gotta be very disingenuous or stupid to think Obama uses a teleprompter during a debate or press conference or interview. During a formal speech, it's nothing more than the digital age equivalent of note cards (or writing on the palm of one's hand).
| 410 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:20:28pm |
re: #404 WindUpBird
I'm not limiting my view of her policies to partisan stuff. Foreign policy matters. Foreign policy and gun rights are my real issues with Senator Boxer. Stuff I'm confident many here would disagree with me on.
So it goes.
| 411 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:20:49pm |
John Galt goes to space. Tea Party pantaloon wearing conspiracy theorists conspicuously absent....
First craft lands at Spaceport America (Exclusive Video)
| 412 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:20:52pm |
re: #408 palomino
The teleprompter meme is one of the dumbest, but I think it's easily sold to the unsophisticated who don't understand the device and think it's cheating.
You've gotta be very disingenuous or stupid to think Obama uses a teleprompter during a debate or press conference or interview. During a formal speech, it's nothing more than the digital age equivalent of note cards (or writing on the palm of one's hand).
The teleprompter meme is one of my internal intelligence tests for political discussion. if someone brings it up as a Significant Thing, I just sort of assume they're a vacuous gumchewer who says what they're told to say
| 413 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:21:01pm |
re: #403 WindUpBird
Gramm's one of the people who has given us the current financial disaster we're weathering
Seriously. Fuck Phil Gramm. His replacement, Jphn Cornyn, isn't much better, either. =P
| 414 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:22:47pm |
re: #298 LudwigVanQuixote
Unless they are in other nations. Shall we talk third world sweat shops and slave labor for sugar and chocolate? You are treading on some dangerous ground here.
U.S. businesses operating in say China pay more than the prevailing wage and the working conditions there are better. Better is still poor by U.S. standards but China has made enormous economic strides and the workers have gained a share in that. Particularly workers in factories that produce for foreign buyers.
The U.S. is in no position to do anything for workers in the sugar and chocolate industry. Nation-building is off our to-do list. We've spent a lot on Iraq and the place is better than it was under Saddam but that's a very low bar.
| 416 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:23:21pm |
re: #410 Rightwingconspirator
I'm not limiting my view of her policies to partisan stuff. Foreign policy matters. Foreign policy and gun rights are my real issues with Senator Boxer. Stuff I'm confident many here would disagree with me on.
So it goes.
Man, I'll never understand why gun rights are anyone's hot button issue unless they literally are in the business of making or selling guns
I'm sure it's important to you, and I've fired my share of guns at stuff, but I just simply cannot get why it'd be number one. it'd be like me voting entirely on which party advocated for harsher CAFE standards
| 417 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:23:28pm |
| 418 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:24:12pm |
re: #393 Dark_Falcon
The friend in question has never been wrong about the words he has heard people use, and I have known him for over a decade. So, yes: If says he heard Barbara Boxer say something, I will believe it on his sayso alone.
My point is that you're convicting her on incomplete evidence, while also simply assuming that her lack of manners is a rarity in the US Congress.
VP Cheney told Sen Leahy to "go fuck himself." I never thought that was a big deal, because it's the way people speak to one another when the stakes are high and they're responsible for running the whole country. Look, Cheney, Leahy, Boxer, Nixon, et al.--they all got it: nice guys finish last.
| 419 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:24:33pm |
re: #413 Lidane
Seriously. Fuck Phil Gramm. His replacement, John Cornyn, isn't much better, either. =P
Phil Gramm is a decent man, and reports of his guilt in the meltdown are greatly exaggerated.
| 420 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:25:02pm |
re: #405 Gus 802
Now you're just being mean. :(
| 421 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:25:07pm |
re: #417 freetoken
"It builds on New Mexico's rich history in space..."
ROSWELL!!
Bill Richardson's nirth cert sez "Mars"!
| 422 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:25:36pm |
re: #397 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm sure she's not a 'nice person'. Neither is Fiorina. "Nice people" have no business running for Senate.
Exactly. Nice people aren't cut out for politics, and vice versa.
| 423 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:25:58pm |
re: #408 palomino
The teleprompter meme is one of the dumbest, but I think it's easily sold to the unsophisticated who don't understand the device and think it's cheating.
You've gotta be very disingenuous or stupid to think Obama uses a teleprompter during a debate or press conference or interview. During a formal speech, it's nothing more than the digital age equivalent of note cards (or writing on the palm of one's hand).
I think Obama's hour talking to his congressional opposition without notes or teleprompter should have destroyed the idea that he can't talk off the cuff.
[Link: www.freemanng.net...]
| 424 |
webevintage Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:26:17pm |
re: #418 palomino
VP Cheney told Sen Leahy to "go fuck himself." I never thought that was a big deal, because it's the way people speak to one another when the stakes are high and they're responsible for running the whole country. Look, Cheney, Leahy, Boxer, Nixon, et al.--they all got it: nice guys finish last.
| 425 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:26:18pm |
re: #421 Killgore Trout
Bill Richardson's nirth cert sez "Mars"!
The Red Planet! Can't you see. Red, the color of the Chi-Comms!!11ty
| 426 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:26:25pm |
re: #423 jaunte
I think Obama's hour talking to his congressional opposition without notes or teleprompter should have destroyed the idea that he can't talk off the cuff.
[Link: www.freemanng.net...]
A lot of people have successfully blocked that whole episode out of their minds.
| 427 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:26:32pm |
re: #416 WindUpBird
It's a big issue for many people because they want to own a gun to protect themselves. Barbara Boxer is hostile to their right to do so.
| 428 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:26:39pm |
re: #400 Varek Raith
Republicans who sound mean = Tough on the issues.
Democrats who sound mean = Unfit for office.
I almost never play the gender card, but your observation is especially true when it's a woman. (think back to the 90s and the characterization of Hillary)
| 429 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:27:16pm |
re: #410 Rightwingconspirator
I'm not limiting my view of her policies to partisan stuff. Foreign policy matters. Foreign policy and gun rights are my real issues with Senator Boxer. Stuff I'm confident many here would disagree with me on.
So it goes.
also foreign policy matters, domestic policy matters more, especially these days
Our current woes are because of bad domestic policy, bad mortgage, lending and financial regulation mojo, allowing people with unprecedented influence on our financial system and our housing market to essentially ruin it, because people are greedy and stupid, especially the sorts of people whose lives are devoted to gaming markets.
And if you don't have laws governing greedy and stupid people and their behavior, they're going to break stuff!
| 430 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:28:18pm |
re: #419 Dark_Falcon
Two words -- Enron loophole. I had friends who lost everything when Enron collapsed. For that reason, and many, many more, I will gladly tell Phil Gramm to fuck off for years to come.
| 431 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:28:41pm |
re: #426 SanFranciscoZionist
Jon Stewart's take: [Link: www.freemanng.net...]
| 432 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:29:46pm |
re: #406 Lidane
Not only that, but before that game, Kitna hadn't played a single down in two years. The other backup QB, Stephen McGee, was drafted in 2009, but didn't get his first start until a pre-season game against Miami this year.
The Cowboys have depended on Romo for everything for ages now. Losing him will hurt. A lot.
You're right. Romo puts up numbers, and has for years. He's not really to blame for the team's problems. They had chances in most of their losses, and most of those games were close. But I think they're done for this year. Only one 1-5 team has even made the playoffs in the last 20 years.
I enjoy it since I've always hated the self-declared "America's Team."
| 433 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:31:10pm |
re: #427 Dark_Falcon
It's a big issue for many people because they want to own a gun to protect themselves. Barbara Boxer is hostile to their right to do so.
On the other hand, her record on abortion issues is, from my perspective, flawless. And I can still own a gun, after all her years in the Senate. So basically, it's a question of where you feel most threatened.
| 434 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:31:19pm |
re: #416 WindUpBird
Man, I'll never understand why gun rights are anyone's hot button issue unless they literally are in the business of making or selling guns
I'm sure it's important to you, and I've fired my share of guns at stuff, but I just simply cannot get why it'd be number one. it'd be like me voting entirely on which party advocated for harsher CAFE standards
I could see them being a hot button issues if gun rights were actually under any kind of assault, but they're not. It's pure paranoia.
| 435 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:31:34pm |
re: #428 palomino
I almost never play the gender card, but your observation is especially true when it's a woman. (think back to the 90s and the characterization of Hillary)
The 90s? Hell, during the campaign they were selling those cute nutcrackers.
| 436 |
laZardo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:31:35pm |
Holy shit, Daft Punk is making the soundtrack for the new Tron movie.
| 437 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:31:56pm |
It was a stormy day today in the midwest - several tornadoes around IN and surrounds.
It was part of rather unusually deep low pressure system:
MINNESOTA ALL TIME LOWEST PRESSURE RECORD BROKEN THIS MORNING
REMEMBER THAT THIS INFORMATION IS PRELIMINARY. THE LOW IS STILL
STRENGTHENING SO THE VALUES LISTED BELOW ARE LIKELY TO CHANGE.AN UNUSUALLY INTENSE LOW WAS AFFECTING THE STATE OF MINNESOTA THIS MORNING. AT 1013 AM CDT...THE AUTOMATED WEATHER OBSERVING SYSTEM AT AITKIN MINNESOTA RECORDED A 962.3 MILLIBAR /28.42 INCHES/ PRESSURE.
THIS BREAKS THE ALL TIME MINNESOTA STATE RECORD FOR THE LOWEST OBSERVED PRESSURE. [...]
| 438 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:34:18pm |
re: #427 Dark_Falcon
It's a big issue for many people because they want to own a gun to protect themselves. Barbara Boxer is hostile to their right to do so.
She also supported Code Pink when they gave aid to our terrorist enemies in Fallujah.
| 439 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:34:45pm |
| 440 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:34:49pm |
re: #416 WindUpBird
My best anti Boxer case might well be foreign policy based. That having been said, it's late to dig up the links i need to make that stick. So, next thing is-
I do take the whole bill of rights thing seriously in my political view. And IMO defensive rights are essential to innocent folks living where predators like rapists & child predators attack.
Caveat to my bias-I am in a day job biz that needs guns (armed security armored cars the worlds best safes etc) so I'm attentive day to day. Long enough to wind up with range officer/defensive instructor firearms credentials.
| 441 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:35:01pm |
re: #437 freetoken
It was a stormy day today in the midwest - several tornadoes around IN and surrounds.
It was part of rather unusually deep low pressure system:
MINNESOTA ALL TIME LOWEST PRESSURE RECORD BROKEN THIS MORNING
My niece in TN reported weird weather as well. Thunderstorms and the like.
| 442 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:36:21pm |
re: #419 Dark_Falcon
Phil Gramm is a decent man, and reports of his guilt in the meltdown are greatly exaggerated.
Oh yeah..a decent man..
/
Wasn't this the same guy who called us all a bunch of whiners?
| 443 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:36:50pm |
re: #442 PT Barnum
Oh yeah..a decent man..
/
Wasn't this the same guy who called us all a bunch of whiners?
Oh, stop whining!
/
| 444 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:37:00pm |
re: #438 NJDhockeyfan
She also supported Code Pink when they gave aid to our terrorist enemies in Fallujah.
Can someone point me at a relatively non-partisan source on that? I honestly can't find anything except nutbar websites, and Code Pink's own, and I don't particularly trust either one.
| 445 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:37:12pm |
re: #429 WindUpBird
I agree with all that. We need fresh competent talent running. We only got those who are on the ballot. Damn. I am in an anti incumbent mood. And an anti Tea Party mood. But staying home is not an option that Tuesday night.
| 446 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:37:19pm |
re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist
Massive windstorm howls across nation's midsection
A massive storm with wind gusts up to 81 mph howled across the nation's midsection Tuesday, snapping trees and power lines, ripping off roofs, delaying flights and soaking commuters hunched under crumpled umbrellas.
Spanning from the Dakotas to the eastern Great Lakes, the unusual system mesmerized meteorologists because of its size and because it had barometric pressure similar to a Category 3 hurricane, but with much less destructive power.
Scientists said the storm had the force of a blizzard minus the snow.
"If it were colder, we'd have a blizzard with this system," said David Imy, operations chief at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Okla. But temperatures were in the 50s and 60s, instead of the 20s.
The National Weather Service said the system's pressure reading Tuesday was the lowest ever in a non-tropical storm in the mainland U.S. If confirmed, that would be worse than the pressure that produced the Blizzard of 1978, the March 1993 "Storm of the Century" or the November 1975 storm that sank the Edmund Fitzgerald freighter, memorialized in a song by Gordon Lightfoot.
[...]
"Blizzards" without snow!
CLIMATE CHAOS!
| 447 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:37:51pm |
re: #419 Dark_Falcon
Phil Gramm is a decent man, and reports of his guilt in the meltdown are greatly exaggerated.
What's all this "decent man" and "bad woman" stuff based on? A feeling in your gut?
These people are like celebrities--we don't really know much about what they're like in private because we don't know them and they construct an image that's all veneer. Moreover, you're taking a few instances and extrapolating into blanket statements. Your contributions here are normally much more rigorous in their logic.
| 448 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:38:42pm |
re: #440 Rightwingconspirator
My best anti Boxer case might well be foreign policy based. That having been said, it's late to dig up the links i need to make that stick. So, next thing is-
I do take the whole bill of rights thing seriously in my political view. And IMO defensive rights are essential to innocent folks living where predators like rapists & child predators attack.Caveat to my bias-I am in a day job biz that needs guns (armed security armored cars the worlds best safes etc) so I'm attentive day to day. Long enough to wind up with range officer/defensive instructor firearms credentials.
Note to self: RWR is the Lizard You Want At Your Side In A Gunfight.
| 449 |
laZardo Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:39:24pm |
re: #448 Dark_Falcon
Note to self: RWR is the Lizard You Want At Your Side In A Gunfight.
This Lizard Is Your Friend.
[insert RWR's picture here]
He Fights For Freedom.
| 450 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:39:39pm |
re: #423 jaunte
I think Obama's hour talking to his congressional opposition without notes or teleprompter should have destroyed the idea that he can't talk off the cuff.
[Link: www.freemanng.net...]
Limbaugh conveniently forgets that, as do Beck and the rest. The good tea party folk can't be expected to figure this out on their own, so they go on thinking that Obama is cheating the public and destroying the constitution with his "word machine."
| 451 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:41:21pm |
re: #438 NJDhockeyfan
She also supported Code Pink when they gave aid to our terrorist enemies in Fallujah.
It's interesting that the only media outlets that seem to carry this story are all right wing websites (Hot Air, Freepers, etc) as opposed to legitimate news organizations.
Media Matters has more information that makes the whole thing sound more like a right wing smearjob.
| 452 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:41:54pm |
re: #451 PT Barnum
It's interesting that the only media outlets that seem to carry this story are all right wing websites (Hot Air, Freepers, etc) as opposed to legitimate news organizations.
Media Matters has more information that makes the whole thing sound more like a right wing smearjob.
Thanks, I'll look at what they've got.
| 453 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:42:04pm |
re: #449 laZardo
Now I wish I had kept my kitten avatar. LOL
| 454 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:42:40pm |
re: #447 palomino
What's all this "decent man" and "bad woman" stuff based on? A feeling in your gut?
These people are like celebrities--we don't really know much about what they're like in private because we don't know them and they construct an image that's all veneer. Moreover, you're taking a few instances and extrapolating into blanket statements. Your contributions here are normally much more rigorous in their logic.
In Gramm's case, its based on my friend and his family's interaction with the senator. In Boxer's case, it what he observed as well as what has been written about her.
| 455 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:42:41pm |
re: #450 palomino
Limbaugh conveniently forgets that, as do Beck and the rest. The good tea party folk can't be expected to figure this out on their own, so they go on thinking that Obama is cheating the public and destroying the constitution with his "word machine."
I dunno, Sarah Palin destroys my faith in humanity every time the tea party folk hail her word salad as brilliant speaking.
| 456 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:45:46pm |
OT in some ways, but I finally had it with a former wingnut coworker. I posted the Rand Paul stompfest video.
Sure enough, the Magical Equivelance Fairy flew out his ass and brought up the whole foot trodding incident.
I gave him the same response any of these people deserve:
"What the hell is wrong with you that you would even try to defend this kind of thing? And by not condemning it, you are defending it."
| 457 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:46:16pm |
re: #454 Dark_Falcon
In Gramm's case, its based on my friend and his family's interaction with the senator. In Boxer's case, it what he observed as well as what has been written about her.
And the amount of contact you're talking about is miniscule in the context of 40 year careers. It's just not enough to make a blanket statement that someone is inherently good or bad. Indeed, terms like good and bad are horrible oversimplifications for people like politicians who work in a world filled with so many contradictions and so much secrecy. Certainly many of our presidents were far too complex to simplistically label good or bad. Same with a US Senator.
| 458 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:46:24pm |
re: #451 PT Barnum
It's interesting that the only media outlets that seem to carry this story are all right wing websites (Hot Air, Freepers, etc) as opposed to legitimate news organizations.
Media Matters has more information that makes the whole thing sound more like a right wing smearjob.
Media Matter, now that's a great source of truth.
LOL!!!
| 459 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:47:05pm |
re: #455 PT Barnum
I dunno, Sarah Palin destroys my faith in humanity every time the tea party folk hail her word salad as brilliant speaking.
It doesn't matter what she said. They can tell she's "one of us" and deep down in her gut a good real American.
| 460 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:47:20pm |
| 461 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:48:32pm |
re: #458 NJDhockeyfan
Media Matter, now that's a great source of truth.
LOL!!!
Can you offer a better one, please? As I said, the sources I've been able to find are basically sites which would believe anything that supported their take on reality. Is there any evidence that the version which has Code Pink offering up their cash to jihadis is real?
| 462 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:48:48pm |
re: #455 PT Barnum
I dunno, Sarah Palin destroys my faith in humanity every time the tea party folk hail her word salad as brilliant speaking.
| 463 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:49:28pm |
| 464 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:50:08pm |
re: #458 NJDhockeyfan
Media Matter, now that's a great source of truth.
LOL!!!
And Jim Hoft? He has to be biggest moron of the Wingnut-O-Sphere.
| 465 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:51:55pm |
re: #464 Gus 802
And Jim Hoft? He has to be biggest moron of the Wingnut-O-Sphere.
Well, Media Matters does refer to him as The Dumbest Man on the Internet.
I truly think they must be mistaken. That is some serious damn competition there, even if you consider 'man' to be gender-specific in this usage.
| 466 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:52:00pm |
re: #457 palomino
And the amount of contact you're talking about is miniscule in the context of 40 year careers. It's just not enough to make a blanket statement that someone is inherently good or bad. Indeed, terms like good and bad are horrible oversimplifications for people like politicians who work in a world filled with so many contradictions and so much secrecy. Certainly many of our presidents were far too complex to simplistically label good or bad. Same with a US Senator.
Of course its an oversimplification. But it's a good shorthand for a person. I only have time to truly understand a few politicos and Barbara Boxer is not one of them. She's a political enemy and a strident one, so my focus on gathering information about her is on that info that can be used against her.
| 467 |
Kronocide Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:53:21pm |
re: #459 palomino
It doesn't matter what she said. They can tell she's "one of us" and deep down in her gut a good real American.
Not sure what that means or if I'm 'one of us' either. It does not matter: she did not deserve that and Stomper needs a time out in the Pokey.
| 468 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:53:32pm |
re: #456 PT Barnum
Sure enough, the Magical Equivelance Fairy flew out his ass and brought up the whole foot trodding incident.
Foot trodding incident?
| 469 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:54:00pm |
I mean, it's not that Code Pink wouldn't give 60,000 dollars to jihadis. I'm sure they would. And then they would get their pictures taken with the jihadis, and try to ululate, badly.
I'm more dubious of their ability to find some jihadis, and give them money in a U.S. controlled war zone. Which is why I'd like some accurate reporting on exactly what went down.
| 470 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:54:08pm |
| 471 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:57:33pm |
Shorthand re: #468 Slumbering Behemoth
Foot trodding incident?
Supposedly a Conway supporter stepped on the foot of a Rand Supporter who was wearing a boot on an injured foot. However the person declined to be treated and we only have their word for it that it was intentional.
Apparently this is the equivalent of being kicked to the curb and having someone step on your neck.
| 472 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:58:45pm |
Like I said, the next time someone tries trotting out the Equivelance Fairy, my response is going to be "What the hell is wrong with you?" If I can shame just one into realizing they have essentially jumped the shark, I will have accomplished something.
| 473 |
DaddyLawBucks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:58:59pm |
re: #471 PT Barnum
I thought there was video showing that this woman was beaten to the ground and had her head stomped on?
| 474 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:59:02pm |
re: #469 SanFranciscoZionist
I'd have to see some pretty solid reason/evidence to go for that extraordinary claim. Against anyone.
| 475 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:59:34pm |
re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Media Matters does refer to him as The Dumbest Man on the Internet.
I truly think they must be mistaken. That is some serious damn competition there, even if you consider 'man' to be gender-specific in this usage.
Charles hasn't been terribly complimentary either.
| 476 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:59:37pm |
re: #466 Dark_Falcon
Of course its an oversimplification. But it's a good shorthand for a person. I only have time to truly understand a few politicos and Barbara Boxer is not one of them. She's a political enemy and a strident one, so my focus on gathering information about her is on that info that can be used against her.
Now you sound like a political operative, no offense.
A bit Rovian, Carvillesque.
| 477 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:00:21pm |
re: #473 daddylawbucks
I thought there was video showing that this woman was beaten to the ground and had her head stomped on?
Yes there was, but no video of the lady getting her toes trod on which the wingnuts are trying to portray as being the same level of severity.
| 478 |
DaddyLawBucks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:02:30pm |
I would say that kicking someone in the head when they are down is probably assault with a deadly weapon, maybe good for six years first offense.
| 479 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:02:51pm |
re: #477 PT Barnum
Yes there was, but no video of the lady getting her toes trod on which the wingnuts are trying to portray as being the same level of severity.
Quite frankly if stepping on people's toes is the equivalent of curb stomping someone I better go into hiding as every dance partner I've ever had will be looking for me.
| 480 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:03:54pm |
re: #478 daddylawbucks
Rand Paul supporters react violently to jokes.
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]
| 481 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:04:35pm |
| 482 |
palomino Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:04:50pm |
re: #466 Dark_Falcon
Of course its an oversimplification. But it's a good shorthand for a person. I only have time to truly understand a few politicos and Barbara Boxer is not one of them. She's a political enemy and a strident one, so my focus on gathering information about her is on that info that can be used against her.
If it's just shorthand with limited info, then it shouldn't be a focus.
You've got plenty of indisputable ammo to prove her flaws as a legislator or her out of mainstream leftist views without getting into personal "One time she did..." kind of hearsay.
| 483 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:06:40pm |
re: #478 daddylawbucks
If she was badly hurt sure. Thank heavens she was not badly hurt. Nothing more than a bruise or two as I read it. My guess-Misdemeanor charge, if that. Maybe no charge filed at all or dropped with some voluntary anger management or some such.
| 484 |
DaddyLawBucks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:06:42pm |
re: #480 jaunte
That clown belongs in prison, besides, what kind of gutless wimp beats up on a girl?
| 485 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:08:12pm |
re: #471 PT Barnum
Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, that totally invalidates the fact that grown men pinned a small woman's head to a curb while a Rand Paul campaign stomped on her head.
/I think my eyes just rolled all the way out of my head and halfway to China.
| 486 |
DaddyLawBucks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:10:56pm |
that is why Sarah (I can't finish as Governor) Palin and her mob mentality followers are frightening. Beck and O'Riley have created a monster in this, and sooner or later it's going to bit us
| 487 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:11:49pm |
re: #478 daddylawbucks
I would say that kicking someone in the head when they are down is probably assault with a deadly weapon, maybe good for six years first offense.
Assault with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.
re: #483 Rightwingconspirator
If she was badly hurt sure. Thank heavens she was not badly hurt. Nothing more than a bruise or two as I read it. My guess-Misdemeanor charge, if that. Maybe no charge filed at all or dropped with some voluntary anger management or some such.
She got a concussion. Kicking someone in the head when they're down is intent to disrupt brain function, regardless of outcome. There's a reason this move is explicitly banned in Shooto fighting, it's inherently dangerous.
| 488 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:12:25pm |
re: #487 goddamnedfrank
I had not heard she got a concussion. That is serious.
| 489 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:12:31pm |
re: #486 daddylawbucks
that is why Sarah (I can't finish as Governor) Palin and her mob mentality followers are frightening. Beck and O'Riley have created a monster in this, and sooner or later it's going to bit us
I try not to read too much into this sort of thing, but it does seem to me that this stomping business is the act of people who feel themselves to be up against something far more sinister than mere political opponents.
OK, let's say they thought she was a threat to the candidate. ONE GUY grabs the runner, someone else yells for the professional event security. End of story.
| 490 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:12:58pm |
re: #473 daddylawbucks
I thought there was video showing that this woman was beaten to the ground and had her head stomped on?
The video segment I saw showed her being pinned to the ground (not beaten), and a Paul campaign staffer stomped once on her shoulder and once on her head. Not very hard stomps, but still very despicable.
I'm no fan of MoveOn, but I am happy that this woman was able to walk away from this. It could have gone in a much worse direction. But again, what did happen is still very despicable.
| 491 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:13:15pm |
I don't see anything regarding Boxer and Code Pink. Last time I checked Code Pink, while controversial, is operating within the limits of the law. Last time I checked we don't live in a police state and Code Pink exists and there will be Senators that support them much to our chagrin. Unless of course we make a fair trade and have all of the right wing Christians stop visiting Uganda.
Otherwise, I serisouly doubt that Code Pink handed over $600,000 of aid to insurgents in Fallujah. While we were engaged in 2 combat operations there it was still eventually opened to humanitarian aid provided by the military, GOs, and NGOs. It wasn't something out of a Rambo movie that saw Fallujah closed and subject to martial law.
| 492 |
DaddyLawBucks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:15:06pm |
if you get a chance, check out Carl Jung's lecture at Yale in 1938. He had some pretty good insight into mob mentality. Check you Lizzards tomorrow evening. Good night.
| 493 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:16:58pm |
re: #492 daddylawbucks
Good night, I'm out too.
| 494 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:17:41pm |
re: #491 Gus 802
I don't see anything regarding Boxer and Code Pink. Last time I checked Code Pink, while controversial, is operating within the limits of the law. Last time I checked we don't live in a police state and Code Pink exists and there will be Senators that support them much to our chagrin. Unless of course we make a fair trade and have all of the right wing Christians stop visiting Uganda.
Otherwise, I serisouly doubt that Code Pink handed over $600,000 of aid to insurgents in Fallujah. While we were engaged in 2 combat operations there it was still eventually opened to humanitarian aid provided by the military, GOs, and NGOs. It wasn't something out of a Rambo movie that saw Fallujah closed and subject to martial law.
Code Pink, living wild in the hills around Fallujah, make contact with the insurgents, unnoticed by the US MARINE CORPS. They deliver $600,000 in unmarked bills. Everywhere they go, they present a letter reading "The bearer of this letter has acted for the good of France the United States." Signed by Cardinal Senator Boxer.
| 495 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:18:00pm |
re: #491 Gus 802
I really don't like CP either, but I'll need to see more evidence than hearsay to believe that about any org, including them.
| 496 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:18:21pm |
re: #494 SanFranciscoZionist
Code Pink, living wild in the hills around Fallujah, make contact with the insurgents, unnoticed by the US MARINE CORPS. They deliver $600,000 in unmarked bills. Everywhere they go, they present a letter reading "The bearer of this letter has acted for the good of
Francethe United States." Signed byCardinalSenator Boxer.
Exactly. lol
| 497 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:18:29pm |
re: #482 palomino
If it's just shorthand with limited info, then it shouldn't be a focus.
You've got plenty of indisputable ammo to prove her flaws as a legislator or her out of mainstream leftist views without getting into personal "One time she did..." kind of hearsay.
Good point.
| 498 |
Kronocide Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:18:37pm |
re: #491 Gus 802
Otherwise, I serisouly doubt that Code Pink handed over $600,000 of aid to insurgents in Fallujah.
Where in the hell are they going to get $600 large, much less give it away? This is just laughable unless some facts show up.
And even if MoveOn Girl did the absolute worst she was being accused that does not justify Stomper. He needs to go to court and get hammered, this is getting silly, dangerously so.
| 499 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:19:15pm |
re: #495 Slumbering Behemoth
I really don't like CP either, but I'll need to see more evidence than hearsay to believe that about any org, including them.
Seriously, Code Pink are absolute dumbasses. I have seen no evidence that they have any common sense as an organization.
I just haven't heard a credible version of what they are supposed to have done with Boxer's collaboration. And the story as it stands has some weird holes in it.
| 500 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:20:37pm |
re: #498 BigPapa
Where in the hell are they going to get $600 large, much less give it away? This is just laughable unless some facts show up.
And even if MoveOn Girl did the absolute worst she was being accused that does not justify Stomper. He needs to go to court and get hammered, this is getting silly, dangerously so.
That's what they claimed here. It was for humanitarian aid for refugees.
| 501 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:21:27pm |
re: #498 BigPapa
Where in the hell are they going to get $600 large, much less give it away? This is just laughable unless some facts show up.
And even if MoveOn Girl did the absolute worst she was being accused that does not justify Stomper. He needs to go to court and get hammered, this is getting silly, dangerously so.
I believe they did in fact do some fundraising for refugees from the Battle of Fallujah. As we all recall, a large number of civilians abandoned the town before the fighting started. Did it all get to real refugees? How much was it? God knows. But orgs other than Code Pink were raising money for those folks, I am sure.
| 502 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:22:05pm |
re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist
Seriously, Code Pink are absolute dumbasses. I have seen no evidence that they have any common sense as an organization.
I just haven't heard a credible version of what they are supposed to have done with Boxer's collaboration. And the story as it stands has some weird holes in it.
All Boxer did was, allegedly, sign a letter for the State Department allowing them to travel? Sounds strange.
| 503 |
Kronocide Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:24:36pm |
I've no doubt Code Pink can raise some cash, I also have no doubt they'd exaggerate the amount raised. Maybe they did raise $600k... but I'm not going to believe it just because they said they did.
This just sounds a little too far out.
| 504 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:27:04pm |
re: #498 BigPapa
Right. That's a pretty big bill of goods to buy based on hearsay alone. I've no doubt that CP would do something like that if they could. But I need a lot more than someone's "say so" to believe something like that.
| 506 |
Kronocide Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:28:37pm |
I'm embroiled in a raging Facebook debate about Meg Whitman:
Smeagol
Quaker Oats guy
Choose wisely.
| 507 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:32:29pm |
re: #506 BigPapa
Neither. I am not a big fan of making political arguments based on a person's looks, and invectives drawn from such. Doubly so when it comes to a female politician, because that shit gets twice as vicious on them as it does on male politicians.
Sorry, I find that kind of thing stupid, childish, and shallow. Stick the the issues, the policies, and so on.
| 508 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:32:38pm |
re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist
Seriously, Code Pink are absolute dumbasses. I have seen no evidence that they have any common sense as an organization.
I just haven't heard a credible version of what they are supposed to have done with Boxer's collaboration. And the story as it stands has some weird holes in it.
Here you go if you can stomach it. This is the most recent bullshit from Newsmax. The wingnuts even try to implicate Obama.
Fuck, I give up. I hate wingnuts.
| 509 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:32:47pm |
re: #502 Gus 802
All Boxer did was, allegedly, sign a letter for the State Department allowing them to travel? Sounds strange.
Yes. They got several Democrats in Congress to write them letters. They went to, as far as I can piece together, Jordan.
Hoft's big deal seems to be this quote:
"I don't know of any other case in history in which the parents of fallen soldiers collected medicine ... for the families of the 'other side'," said Medea Benjamin, the founding director of Global Exchange, a human rights group."
I think it's pretty clear that she means that they're super-special for raising money for civilians from the 'enemy' population. So special! So far-sighted! I do NOT think she means that they gave the money to any insurgent group.
I can't imagine how they could have GOTTEN the money to any insurgent group in the Fallujah area. By the time the trip took place, every tree, rock and animal in the area was under the direct control of the United States Marine Corps. Did they mail the cash to al-Zarkawi through the Jordanian postal service?
| 510 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:33:05pm |
re: #503 BigPapa
I've no doubt Code Pink can raise some cash, I also have no doubt they'd exaggerate the amount raised. Maybe they did raise $600k... but I'm not going to believe it just because they said they did.
This just sounds a little too far out.
Ditto. They tend to exaggerate.
| 511 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:33:36pm |
re: #504 Slumbering Behemoth
Right. That's a pretty big bill of goods to buy based on hearsay alone. I've no doubt that CP would do something like that if they could. But I need a lot more than someone's "say so" to believe something like that.
Agreed. They probably would if they could. Doubt they could.
| 512 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:34:33pm |
re: #508 Gus 802
Here you go if you can stomach it. This is the most recent bullshit from Newsmax. The wingnuts even try to implicate Obama.
Fuck, I give up. I hate wingnuts.
This is the crap I have to read sometimes:
"Jodie Evans not only raised that money for CODEPINK, but she delivered that money personally to the insurgents who were fighting and killing U.S. Marines in 2005. And Obama did use her as a fundraiser. In fact, she has been a personal guest at the Obama White House since his election, so she’s not just somebody he used as a fundraiser, she is a close acquaintance and she is in my opinion a traitor.
“The reason she has not been prosecuted to date, I believe, is she has gotten a pass, much like Obama has, from the mainstream media.”
| 513 |
Kronocide Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:36:28pm |
re: #507 Slumbering Behemoth
Sorry, I find that kind of thing stupid, childish, and shallow. Stick the the issues, the policies, and so on.
It is stupid, childish, and shallow. But it's also a timeout from the serious shit going on. I can't vote in that race, and many others, and Hawaii has a comparatively boring (read: non idiotic) race for governor between Abercrombie and Aiona.
This is my little guilty pleasure.
| 514 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:39:54pm |
re: #509 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes. They got several Democrats in Congress to write them letters. They went to, as far as I can piece together, Jordan.
Hoft's big deal seems to be this quote:
"I don't know of any other case in history in which the parents of fallen soldiers collected medicine ... for the families of the 'other side'," said Medea Benjamin, the founding director of Global Exchange, a human rights group."
I think it's pretty clear that she means that they're super-special for raising money for civilians from the 'enemy' population. So special! So far-sighted! I do NOT think she means that they gave the money to any insurgent group.
I can't imagine how they could have GOTTEN the money to any insurgent group in the Fallujah area. By the time the trip took place, every tree, rock and animal in the area was under the direct control of the United States Marine Corps. Did they mail the cash to al-Zarkawi through the Jordanian postal service?
That's what I came across: it stopped in Jordan. It wasn't just Jodie Evans sneaking around behind the Marines backs. It was an entire delegation of sorts.
| 515 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:39:56pm |
re: #512 Gus 802
This is the crap I have to read sometimes:
As far as I can tell, they don't believe in Iraqi civilians, because their only proof of Evans' delivering directly to insurgents seems to be that she gave stuff to Iraqis. That is a little disturbing.
| 516 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:41:03pm |
re: #514 Gus 802
That's what I came across: it stopped in Jordan. It wasn't just Jodie Evans sneaking around behind the Marines backs. It was an entire delegation of sorts.
They also go to Gaza. They love these little expeditions. It seems that in this case they may have actually been useful.
| 517 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:41:16pm |
re: #513 BigPapa
It is stupid, childish, and shallow.
Well, so long as you have the honesty and integrity to admit that... upding.
Also note, I did not sling a "hurr hurr hurr" at you. :)
| 518 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:42:41pm |
re: #515 SanFranciscoZionist
As far as I can tell, they don't believe in Iraqi civilians, because their only proof of Evans' delivering directly to insurgents seems to be that she gave stuff to Iraqis. That is a little disturbing.
They made it up. Pure and simple. It's hearsay.
Here's the latest about Jodie Evan allegedly saying that she "told a Gold Star mom that her son 'deserved to die' in Iraq"
Evans told the Chronicle she was appalled and hurt by those charges. "I lost a child. It isn't possible for me to say that anyone deserves to die,'' she said. "As mad as a I am for the deaths of so many people (in Iraq and Afghanistan), it's not something I can think and feel. I am working so our young men and women won't die. It's heartbreaking to see a mother lose a child."
Gold Star mom Lee, reached today by phone, said she believes someone from Code Pink made the disputed comment to her during the protest over a Berkeley military recruiting center.
But "I couldn't tell you if it was Jodie Evans or who it was. At that point, I didn't know who she was or what she looked like....It was several people from Code Pink,'' she said. "It's what they do. It could very well have been her."
IOW, Lee didn't even know who said "deserved to die" all along. It was at some protest with 100s of people.
| 519 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:43:51pm |
| 521 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:44:27pm |
re: #518 Gus 802
They made it up. Pure and simple. It's hearsay.
Here's the latest about Jodie Evan allegedly saying that she "told a Gold Star mom that her son 'deserved to die' in Iraq"
IOW, Lee didn't even know who said "deserved to die" all along. It was at some protest with 100s of people.
Ghah. That's an ugly thing for someone to say.
That's also an ugly thing to attribute to someone without any certainty.
| 522 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:45:25pm |
re: #521 SanFranciscoZionist
Ghah. That's an ugly thing for someone to say.
That's also an ugly thing to attribute to someone without any certainty.
Yep. In that article Evans said,
"I lost a child. It isn't possible for me to say that anyone deserves to die,'' she said. "As mad as a I am for the deaths of so many people (in Iraq and Afghanistan), it's not something I can think and feel. I am working so our young men and women won't die. It's heartbreaking to see a mother lose a child."
| 523 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:47:43pm |
re: #512 Gus 802
The problem is there are plenty of people out there who just eat up the sort of B.S. that the wingnut psuedo-news sites put out.
Speaking of wingnuts and internet, turns out Esther's favorite Alaska politician is one of those internet tools:
Miller admits to lies about his actions
Republican Senate nominee Joe Miller admitted in 2008 that he lied after being caught using Fairbanks North Star Borough computers for political purposes when he was a part-time borough lawyer.
"I lied about accessing all of the computers. I then admitted about accessing the computers, but lied about what I was doing. Finally, I admitted what I did," Miller wrote in a March 17, 2008, e-mail to Fairbanks North Star Borough Attorney Rene Broker.Miller's admission said he went on three of his co-workers' computers to participate in a political poll and then cleared the caches.
[...]
Hehe... Miller admits to poll pushing on the internet.
Hmmm... I wonder if he was one of those who would always click the "Ron Paul" option on those online polls?
What's the over/under on the Free Republic being Miller's favorite site?
| 524 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:51:19pm |
re: #490 Slumbering Behemoth
The video segment I saw showed her being pinned to the ground (not beaten), and a Paul campaign staffer stomped once on her shoulder and once on her head. Not very hard stomps, but still very despicable.
I'm no fan of MoveOn, but I am happy that this woman was able to walk away from this. It could have gone in a much worse direction. But again, what did happen is still very despicable.
Again, my theory is that if it's the kind of move that will cause an instant disqualification in Shooto MMA fighting, a man has no business pulling it off on an unarmed woman being held prone by other men. It's an unambiguous felony from where I sit, with no plea bargaining. The prosecutor should go to trial and seek convictions on the the harshest charges that will stick, with gang violence sentencing enhancements.
| 525 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:52:06pm |
re: #523 freetoken
The problem is there are plenty of people out there who just eat up the sort of B.S. that the wingnut psuedo-news sites put out.
Speaking of wingnuts and internet, turns out Esther's favorite Alaska politician is one of those internet tools:
Miller admits to lies about his actions
Hehe... Miller admits to poll pushing on the internet.
Hmmm... I wonder if he was one of those who would always click the "Ron Paul" option on those online polls?
What's the over/under on the Free Republic being Miller's favorite site?
That's it? He just used three of his co-workers computers to participate in an online poll? More to come since there was 60 pages of records. I doubt this is just about three computers and an only poll or two.
| 526 |
ozbloke Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:53:14pm |
China flexing some muscle
| 527 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:56:58pm |
re: #525 Gus 802
There's more to the story, I'm just interested in that Miller likes to use the Internet to drive polls.
Timmeh just put up a Page that has a link to a bit more of a background to the issue Miller had with the head of the local GOP. Miller wanted to take over the local GOP, and that was part of the poll manipulation.
Miller also deleted all his emails when he left that job. He's a habitual cover-up.
| 528 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 10:57:58pm |
re: #527 freetoken
There's more to the story, I'm just interested in that Miller likes to use the Internet to drive polls.
Timmeh just put up a Page that has a link to a bit more of a background to the issue Miller had with the head of the local GOP. Miller wanted to take over the local GOP, and that was part of the poll manipulation.
Miller also deleted all his emails when he left that job. He's a habitual cover-up.
Yeah, I was just reading that. Poof, emails gone.
The records released today provide other new information about Miller's time at the borough. He deleted all his borough e-mails before he resigned in September of last year. That left the borough scrambling to figure out how to retrieve the public records, some of which dealt with the legal dispute Miller worked on regarding property taxes on the trans-Alaska oil pipeline.
"I'm confused as to why he would do that..." Dolan wrote the borough attorney in an e-mail dated Sept. 9, 2009. "Back when we had the other issue with Joe, he had been in my office asking me lots and lots of questions about how the borough's servers work, what backups we do, what data we store, etc. He said he wanted to know because he was paranoid about someone hacking into the system and that he needed to know what protections he had."
| 529 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:00:10pm |
re: #527 freetoken
There's more to the story, I'm just interested in that Miller likes to use the Internet to drive polls.
Timmeh just put up a Page that has a link to a bit more of a background to the issue Miller had with the head of the local GOP. Miller wanted to take over the local GOP, and that was part of the poll manipulation.
Miller also deleted all his emails when he left that job. He's a habitual cover-up.
This was our first sighting of Miller at LGF.
Joe Miller and his AR-15 entourage.
| 530 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:00:54pm |
re: #529 Gus 802
Yup, that's why I put him as being part of the FreeRepublic crowd.
| 531 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:04:25pm |
re: #530 freetoken
Yup, that's why I put him as being part of the FreeRepublic crowd.
I'm shaking my head. We've never seen anything like this. It started last year too. All of these gun nuts coming out of the woodwork. The two fatso in the middle have their guns slung out in front of them like they're ready for use and loaded.
Obama was sworn into office and then the public displays of guns came to the forefront.
| 532 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:05:35pm |
re: #524 goddamnedfrank
Again, my theory is that if it's the kind of move that will cause an instant disqualification in Shooto MMA fighting, a man has no business pulling it off on an unarmed woman being held prone by other men.
Can't disagree. Not a bit.
It's an unambiguous felony from where I sit, with no plea bargaining. The prosecutor should go to trial and seek convictions on the the harshest charges that will stick, with gang violence sentencing enhancements.
Well, they're gonna have to determine motive, review the medical results, and so on. Looks cut and dry for folks like us, but they gotta go through the process. I agree with you on this, but I ain't gonna hold my breath hoping for such a legal decision.
| 534 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:10:52pm |
It never ends.
Joe Miller's Extreme Anti-Gay Adviser
According to Miller's campaign disclosure forms, Miller has paid Terry Moffitt of High Point, North Carolina, $2500 for consulting services. Moffitt is not known as a political consultant. But he is a man of many interests. He's been a dean at a Christian high school (where he taught creationism), and he has traveled around the world to promote Christianity. (He refers to himself as the "Christian Indiana Jones.") He also owns a security business, and the firm's website says Moffitt is able "to provide security consultation services, perform technical threat assessments, and design pre-emptive security measures" for education and nonprofit organizations. His personal website notes he "had a contract put on his head by organized crime, received death threats from radial [sic] Islamic groups and been bitten by a very nasty spider in Australia." On top of all this, Moffitt is the chairman of the Family Policy Network, a group that passionately opposes homosexuality.
| 535 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:11:22pm |
re: #533 SpaceJesus
I'm gonna take a wild guess here. Folks of the Jewish faith do not recognize Jesus as being the messiah foretold of in their prophecies. So they're still waiting for him/her to show.
But that's just a semi-educated guess on my part.
| 536 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:12:10pm |
re: #534 Gus 802
In 2000, the group criticized Republican George Allen when he was running for the Senate in Virginia for meeting with pro-gay rights Republicans: "George Allen betrayed every pro-family conservative in Virginia by meeting with homosexual activists. For George Allen to meet with any group that defines itself by deviant, destructive sexual behavior is totally unacceptable." It protested when the University of North Carolina required incoming freshmen in 2002 to read a book about the Koran and when the University of Maryland distributed to entering freshmen a play about the murder of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man in Wyoming. The Family Policy Network also staunchly opposes abortion, contraception, and in vitro fertilization. The group's goal, it says, is to champion "a Biblical perspective" on social issues.
| 537 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:14:30pm |
re: #534 Gus 802
We kicked around the Miller-Moffitt relationship a few days ago. I doubt too many people in Alaska care, unfortunately.
Esther is coming to the aid of her disciple. Besides the facebook/tweeting, looks like she's going to appear in the flesh:
| 538 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:15:58pm |
re: #537 freetoken
We kicked around the Miller-Moffitt relationship a few days ago. I doubt too many people in Alaska care, unfortunately.
Esther is coming to the aid of her disciple. Besides the facebook/tweeting, looks like she's going to appear in the flesh:
The fact that Palin is supporting this asshole Miller says a lot. Palin is far-right nut that should never hold office again.
| 539 |
Gus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:16:08pm |
Whew, I need some brain bleach.
NCIS to the rescue! Good night folks.
| 540 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:17:04pm |
re: #535 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm gonna take a wild guess here. Folks of the Jewish faith do not recognize Jesus as being the messiah foretold of in their prophecies. So they're still waiting for him/her to show.
But that's just a semi-educated guess on my part.
Nope, they're Christians who don't believe in replacement theology and follow some mitzvoh.
| 541 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:17:15pm |
re: #533 SpaceJesus
wtf is messianic Judaism?
Evangelical Christians with some Jewish cultural veneer. They use Hebrew, call Jesus Yeshua, call their churches synagogues, and the like.
Why do you ask?
| 543 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:18:09pm |
re: #535 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm gonna take a wild guess here. Folks of the Jewish faith do not recognize Jesus as being the messiah foretold of in their prophecies. So they're still waiting for him/her to show.
But that's just a semi-educated guess on my part.
No, that's just plain Judaism.
| 544 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:19:03pm |
re: #536 Gus 802
I just don't get it. I don't see how allowing homosexuals equal protection under the law is a betrayal or violation of anyone's family, marriage, individual rights, or constitutional law.
I don't see how anyone can claim it's a conservative position to deny homosexuals equal protection under the law.
| 545 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:20:30pm |
re: #541 SanFranciscoZionist
It's what Roder claimed to be. It creeps me out.
These people have a serious identity crisis.
| 546 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:23:32pm |
| 547 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:23:58pm |
re: #544 Slumbering Behemoth
I don't see how anyone can claim it's a conservative position to deny homosexuals equal protection under the law.
Haven't you heard? Homosexuality is a demon.
Conservatives hatez teh demonz.
Aren't you a real conservative?
| 548 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:27:48pm |
re: #545 SpaceJesus
It's what Roder claimed to be. It creeps me out.
These people have a serious identity crisis.
Usually when I encounter such folks, they're earnestly telling me how I can keep my special Jewish faith and words and such, and also get Jesus in the bargain.
I can't remember who said that it is almost impossible to explain something to a man when his income depends on his not understanding it. It is similarly nearly impossible to explain something to someone whose theological reality depends on him not getting it.
| 549 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:28:25pm |
| 550 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:28:46pm |
| 551 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:38:45pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
Usually when I encounter such folks, they're earnestly telling me how I can keep my special Jewish faith and words and such, and also get Jesus in the bargain.
I can't remember who said that it is almost impossible to explain something to a man when his income depends on his not understanding it. It is similarly nearly impossible to explain something to someone whose theological reality depends on him not getting it.
I just tell them I use to be a fig tree, works like a charm.
| 552 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:50:59pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
At first I was going to suggest Mencken, but it was Upton Sinclair:
[Link: en.wikiquote.org...]
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
| 553 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 26, 2010 11:53:42pm |
Mencken did have something to say that seems relevant to the issue:
For centuries, theologians have been explaining the unknowable in terms of the-not-worth-knowing.
| 554 |
nature boy Wed, Oct 27, 2010 12:47:24am |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
I can't remember who said that it is almost impossible to explain something to a man when his income depends on his not understanding it. It is similarly nearly impossible to explain something to someone whose theological reality depends on him not getting it.
A perfect recipe for cognitive dissonance.
| 555 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 27, 2010 1:43:14am |
re: #547 freetoken
Here I was, thinking that a big part of American conservatism meant that all people, regardless of their race, religion, creed, color, or consensual sexual preference, were afforded the same equal rights under the constitution. I guess that's just the way I interpret conservatism: staying the bloody fuck out of other people's lives who are committing no real crimes.
Well hell, I guess I'm just a CINO.
/
I can not express in words strong enough to convey how angry I am at the contravention of the ideal of conservatism, to be mean that certain Americans are less equal than others. And that anger is reserved not for liberals who claim that conservatism is "this or that", but self proclaimed conservatives who do.
| 557 |
Taqyia2Me Wed, Oct 27, 2010 2:55:09am |
re: #555 Slumbering Behemoth
Here I was, thinking that a big part of American conservatism meant that all people, regardless of their race, religion, creed, color, or consensual sexual preference, were afforded the same equal rights under the constitution. I guess that's just the way I interpret conservatism: staying the bloody fuck out of other people's lives who are committing no real crimes.
Well hell, I guess I'm just a CINO.
/I can not express in words strong enough to convey how angry I am at the contravention of the ideal of conservatism, to be mean that certain Americans are less equal than others. And that anger is reserved not for liberals who claim that conservatism is "this or that", but self proclaimed conservatives who do.
Agree totally.
| 558 |
AK-47% Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:03:46am |
re: #555 Slumbering Behemoth
Because modern Tea Party conservatism is not religiously neutral, it has grown to be highly Christianity-oriented and theologically centered: those who are outside the fairth (or rather the literalist, fundamentalit interpretation of the faith) are outside the picture, and do not deserve Divine Justice.
| 560 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:16:44am |
re: #558 ralphieboy
Ugh. I find the entire situation to be taxing. It's as if all the grown-ups have gone and disappeared. What conservative movement stands for such things? Not one that I recognize as being conservative. And I am the odd man out, from the perspectives of both sides.
I am terribly disappoint.
/you see, I try to keep some sense of humor through all this.
G'nite Lizards. See y'all again on the next go 'round.
| 561 |
researchok Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:20:33am |
re: #555 Slumbering Behemoth
Here I was, thinking that a big part of American conservatism meant that all people, regardless of their race, religion, creed, color, or consensual sexual preference, were afforded the same equal rights under the constitution. I guess that's just the way I interpret conservatism: staying the bloody fuck out of other people's lives who are committing no real crimes.
Well hell, I guess I'm just a CINO.
/I can not express in words strong enough to convey how angry I am at the contravention of the ideal of conservatism, to be mean that certain Americans are less equal than others. And that anger is reserved not for liberals who claim that conservatism is "this or that", but self proclaimed conservatives who do.
Well said.
| 562 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:39:16am |
Humans are still awesome.
At last night talk by Robert Alter at CUNY, I arrived early and was talking to his wife and a medievalist friend of my father's. The conversation meandered, and at one point I told them the story of the river otter that had lived in our pond one year, how the otter had eaten like a king on our fish and disappeared in the spring.
Afterwards, the adorable white-haired Jewish man sitting two to my left handed me an index card, saying, "Apologies for the interruption."
I took the card, and read it. It said:
"He was otterly indifferent to humans."
| 563 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:42:19am |
And on a more negative note:
Here's a great NPR story about the collusion of huge money flowing into this year's election.
The more this is allowed to happen, the more corrupt our government will become.
[Link: www.npr.org...]
| 564 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:43:05am |
re: #555 Slumbering Behemoth
Here I was, thinking that a big part of American conservatism meant that all people, regardless of their race, religion, creed, color, or consensual sexual preference, were afforded the same equal rights under the constitution. I guess that's just the way I interpret conservatism: staying the bloody fuck out of other people's lives who are committing no real crimes.
Well hell, I guess I'm just a CINO.
/I can not express in words strong enough to convey how angry I am at the contravention of the ideal of conservatism, to be mean that certain Americans are less equal than others. And that anger is reserved not for liberals who claim that conservatism is "this or that", but self proclaimed conservatives who do.
I'm with ya on this.
| 565 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:51:24am |
re: #564 reine.de.tout
I think a lot of it comes from fear. I think a lot of people, especially older people, are concerned about being disenfranchised, are concerned about their voice and vote not mattering. As ill-founded as all the paranoia about vote-stealing is, I think it represents a concern that their voice has been lost in the system-- not that their voice has been lost, it's just that whole progression of society thing. And so, embittered, people tend to cling to the things that they still feel strongly connected and influential in-- like their local church.
I think the Tea Party's tapped into this dis-affectation from politics and turned it into an engagement with a certain sort of politics, a very anarchic and aggressive form of politics. I think that is why you see good, honest, earnest conservatives attacked-- because a lot of the anger really isn't simply against liberals or actual policy issues; the anger is against the very concepts of collective action that government represents. I think there's a strong message in some of the people who won the GOP primaries-- I think in many cases they've been voted for precisely because of their ignorance and their animosity for the (real state of) the constitution. They've been voted for because they atavistically represent the anger towards government-- but they're not offered as a solution, but merely a bitter arrow.
| 566 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 4:03:57am |
re: #565 Obdicut
Excellent analysis IMO.
| 567 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 4:10:22am |
re: #566 reine.de.tout
Thank you. As to solutions, I have no idea. But I do know a lot of the anger and fear is being stoked on purpose, by places like Fox and the Heritage foundation and Freedomworks and all the shadowy groups that have sprung up in the wake of the Citizen's United ruling. Far more than the mass of angry people, I blame those that are benefiting and profiting from that anger.
I really don't know how they sleep at night.
| 568 |
AK-47% Wed, Oct 27, 2010 4:18:07am |
The Tea party folks have the advantage that they can campaign on idology and vitriol without even being asked in most cases to offer serious policy decisions.
| 569 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 27, 2010 4:45:29am |
re: #567 Obdicut
Thank you. As to solutions, I have no idea. But I do know a lot of the anger and fear is being stoked on purpose, by places like Fox and the Heritage foundation and Freedomworks and all the shadowy groups that have sprung up in the wake of the Citizen's United ruling. Far more than the mass of angry people, I blame those that are benefiting and profiting from that anger.
I really don't know how they sleep at night.
///On top of a pile of money surrounded by many beautiful women....
| 570 |
Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 27, 2010 4:53:37am |
re: #569 jamesfirecat
I'd say that ought to lead to sleep deprivation.
| 571 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:07:46am |
re: #565 Obdicut
re: #567 Obdicut
That would be a great assessment if we didn't have any history to judge it against. We saw the same thing, including all the anger, in 2006, 1994, 1992, and 1982. "The economy is bad, the feds are spending too much, and something needs to be done" is a continual meme throughout our electoral history.
| 572 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:14:11am |
Oh, and the "citizens united' boogey man is old. "Huge change!" Not so much...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
The decision overruled Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce (1990) and partially overruled McConnell v. Federal Election Commission (2003).[4] McCain–Feingold had previously been weakened, without overruling McConnell, in Federal Election Commission v. Wisconsin Right to Life, Inc. (2007). The Court did uphold requirements for disclaimer and disclosure by sponsors of advertisements. The case did not involve the federal ban on direct contributions from corporations or unions to candidate campaigns or political parties
and......
Democrats Retain Edge in Spending on Campaigns
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Toss in the fact that the 2 biggest spenders (one in CA and one in CT) are both going to lose and what does that do to the meme.......
| 573 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:17:13am |
[Link: people-press.org...]
Change the year on this graph and the party affiliation and you have almost a repeat in 2010:
ANGER!
Image: 291-6.gif
nate Silver is calling for 52. He's obviously a brilliant man (because I've been saying 51).
[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]
| 574 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:17:41am |
re: #34 freetoken
Submitted as evidence that lies never truly die but are just recycled when needed - latest from the Heritage Foundation:
How the “Scientific Consensus” on Global Warming Affects American Business—and Consumers
It may seem to be off topic, but it's not, really. Look at those places that the Kochs and Pope fund, and then look at Heritage's (or several of the other recipients of the money) position on abortion.
The Heritage Foundation is just doing the work for which they were paid:
And thus, as if by magic, every GOP Senatorial candidate save one is a Global Warming Denier or Skeptic. It is almost like you can visualize the chain of command.
| 575 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:21:15am |
re: #555 Slumbering Behemoth
Here I was, thinking that a big part of American conservatism meant that all people, regardless of their race, religion, creed, color, or consensual sexual preference, were afforded the same equal rights under the constitution. I guess that's just the way I interpret conservatism: staying the bloody fuck out of other people's lives who are committing no real crimes.
God, how I wish that was true. Conservatism has never been anything like that, however, at least in my experience. What we're seeing now in the Tea Party is pretty much what I've seen presented as conservatism, only on a much larger scale.
It's why I've never been inclined to call myself conservative, or even give that idea any thought. No matter how good the academic idea behind conservatism sounds, in practice, it's always come across as an unholy combination of the Tea Party and Supply Side Jesus.
| 576 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:14am |
re: #276 NJDhockeyfan
The right has Fox which is slightly to the right of John Birch, while the rest of the media is pretty centrist.
Bwahahahahahaha! This is the funniest post I've read all week. Thanks for the laugh!
And thank you, sir, for that information-free post.
| 577 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:16am |
re: #575 Lidane
While I agree with Behemoth I have a problem tagging one team over the other on this particular issue. In the last few election cycles we've had anti-gay marriage type measures voted on in ME, CA, and OH (none of which are republican strongholds) and the gay rights side lost in each thanks to wide bipartisan voting. I also have a problem with giving one team a pass on an issue just because people have this delusion that one team is better than the other, especially when it comes to individual rights.
Dems/repubs were never going to do anything about DADT or an Immgration bill because it takes an election issue off the table. People are being used as campaign props and they continue to let it happen. I find that kind of team play annoying.
| 578 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:16am |
re: #575 Lidane
God, how I wish that was true. Conservatism has never been anything like that, however, at least in my experience. What we're seeing now in the Tea Party is pretty much what I've seen presented as conservatism, only on a much larger scale.
It's why I've never been inclined to call myself conservative, or even give that idea any thought. No matter how good the academic idea behind conservatism sounds, in practice, it's always come across as an unholy combination of the Tea Party and Supply Side Jesus.
regulating wombs, weddings and doling out corporate welfare...........
| 579 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:57am |
re: #572 RogueOne
Oh, and the "citizens united' boogey man is old. "Huge change!" Not so much...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
and...
Democrats Retain Edge in Spending on Campaigns
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]Toss in the fact that the 2 biggest spenders (one in CA and one in CT) are both going to lose and what does that do to the meme...
So you think millions of anonymous dollars buying ads and trying (with mixed success) to tilt the table are a good thing?
Focus on "anonymous" and tell us your thoughts.
| 580 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:31:20am |
re: #578 wozzablog
regulating wombs, weddings and doling out corporate welfare...
regulating what you ingest, smoke, and what you're allowed to say and think......
| 581 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:34:30am |
re: #580 RogueOne
regulating what you ingest, smoke, and what you're allowed to say and think...
So...you want to abolish the FDA?
Really?
You think the free market is capable of determining what is a good or bad drug without the incurring of a bunch of collateral damage? (Think Thalidomide, or Phen-fen.)
| 582 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:46am |
re: #580 RogueOne
regulating what you ingest, smoke, and what you're allowed to say and think...
ingesting large quantities of lead will really ruin your day. unless you are talking about the medical professionals recommending the 5 fruits and veg a day - orrr........ the banning (in some places) of hydrocarbon superfats.......... yeah...... that sucks. realy does.
hang on - it's liberal democrats leading the charge against legalising marijuana......? .........
say and think? - i didn't think they'd repealed the first amendment.........
| 583 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:53am |
re: #579 garhighway
So you think millions of anonymous dollars buying ads and trying (with mixed success) to tilt the table are a good thing?
Focus on "anonymous" and tell us your thoughts.
I've told you how I feel about it....I don't feel anything. I don't need to know who paid for an ad in order to decide how I feel on an issue.
I had an epiphany a couple weeks ago after going around and around with obdi and fozzie about this issue. I was watching something on tv afterwards and had the thought "he believes there are non-partisan advocacy groups, that's cute" and it hit me, that's why some people don't understand why I wouldn't want to know who's paying for an ad. Some people honestly believe there are special interest groups out there that only deal with reality and truth and some politicians are only in office out of their altruistic views on humanity....I find that view "cute". Every campaign commercial is a spin on reality, you don't really need to know who paid for the ad to figure out the spin. No one is "honest".
| 584 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:38:43am |
re: #581 garhighway
So...you want to abolish the FDA?
Really?
You think the free market is capable of determining what is a good or bad drug without the incurring of a bunch of collateral damage? (Think Thalidomide, or Phen-fen.)
Should americans not be allowed to decide for themselves how many food groups they want in their diet? How much salt? How much corn syrup? How many happy meals their kids can have? What they want to put in their pipe and smoke it?
Why do you hate americans so much that you believe only the feds can save them from themselves?/
| 585 |
AK-47% Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:54am |
A lot of Americans are very fond of the ideology of Free Enterprise, and seem unaware of the fact that simply allowing large corporations to run roughshod over the market is the very anathema of a functioning Free Market.
| 586 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:08am |
re: #577 RogueOne
While I agree with Behemoth I have a problem tagging one team over the other on this particular issue.
I don't. I'll take anything over the modern conservative movement and the 2010 GOP.
Are the Dems perfect? Not by a longshot. But I'll cast my lot with them over the raving lunatics who want to deport me for speaking Spanish and who want to move the educational and political systems in this country back to the Dark Ages.
| 587 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:18am |
re: #584 RogueOne
Should americans not be allowed to decide for themselves how many food groups they want in their diet? How much salt? How much corn syrup? How many happy meals their kids can have? What they want to put in their pipe and smoke it?
Why do you hate americans so much that you believe only the feds can save them from themselves?/
where is it illegal to feed your kids happy meals until they barf or become morbidly obese preteens?...........
| 588 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:38am |
re: #585 ralphieboy
A lot of Americans are very fond of the ideology of Free Enterprise, and seem unaware of the fact that simply allowing large corporations to run roughshod over the market is the very anathema of a functioning Free Market.
When the "free market" starts forming their own SWAT teams to make sure you only ingest what you're entitled to put in your body, then I'll worry.//
| 589 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:59am |
re: #583 RogueOne
I've told you how I feel about it...I don't feel anything. I don't need to know who paid for an ad in order to decide how I feel on an issue.
I had an epiphany a couple weeks ago after going around and around with obdi and fozzie about this issue. I was watching something on tv afterwards and had the thought "he believes there are non-partisan advocacy groups, that's cute" and it hit me, that's why some people don't understand why I wouldn't want to know who's paying for an ad. Some people honestly believe there are special interest groups out there that only deal with reality and truth and some politicians are only in office out of their altruistic views on humanity...I find that view "cute". Every campaign commercial is a spin on reality, you don't really need to know who paid for the ad to figure out the spin. No one is "honest".
I vehemently disagree. Motives matter. An ad against cap and trade becomes a clearer communication when you learn it comes to you from AEP or Exxon. It moves from a political argument to a plea for self-interest. (And not all political arguments ARE self-interested. That people campaign for choice doesn't mean they want an abortion or plan to profit from them. Often it means that they just believe in their side of the issue.) Allowing the special pleaders to hide behind astroturf front groups to disguise their real interests is fundamentally dishonest.
| 590 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:10am |
re: #587 wozzablog
where is it illegal to feed your kids happy meals until they barf or become morbidly obese preteens?...
There have been a couple cities that have outlawed/tried to outlaw happy meals because they believe it leads to childhood obesity.
That's why so many liberals are in favor of legalizing marijuana. 1. It gives them something else to tax and 2. It allows them to outlaw it for the "right" reason, it's bad for your health.
| 591 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:45:54am |
re: #589 garhighway
They ALL have motives and no ones motives are "pure". They ALL LIE, it's all spin, everyone (including you and me) is biased. There is no such thing as a "disinterested advocacy group".
| 592 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:47:03am |
re: #590 RogueOne
That's why so many liberals are in favor of legalizing marijuana. 1. It gives them something else to tax and 2. It allows them to outlaw it for the "right" reason, it's bad for your health.
Funny. I favor legalizing it because people are going to smoke it anyway, and I'd rather have that money staying here in the States instead of going to the cartels.
Besides, decriminalizing weed would take people off probation and get them out of jail for what amounts to a victimless crime. That would mean more beds available for the violent fuckers who deserve to be in jail. That's a good thing.
| 593 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:47:11am |
re: #584 RogueOne
Should americans not be allowed to decide for themselves how many food groups they want in their diet? How much salt? How much corn syrup? How many happy meals their kids can have? What they want to put in their pipe and smoke it?
Why do you hate americans so much that you believe only the feds can save them from themselves?/
Adults can do what they want. The FDA gives them information (like food labels: are you OK with those? Thank the FDA for that.) and they do what they want with it. When the consumer is a child, as in school cafeterias, then there is a bigger role for government to play.
But you are free to feed your kid whatever you want, so long as it isn't arsenic or strychnine. So the "they'll take away your right to feed your kid whatever you want" is a straw man.
Likewise, do you really think tobacco should be unregulated?
And the "do you hate Americans.." argument is contemptable. I presume good faith here. Why don't you?
| 594 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:01am |
re: #590 RogueOne
There have been a couple cities that have outlawed/tried to outlaw happy meals because they believe it leads to childhood obesity.
That's why so many liberals are in favor of legalizing marijuana. 1. It gives them something else to tax and 2. It allows them to outlaw it for the "right" reason, it's bad for your health.
Toys were banned from being included in meals in santa clara......... the food itself hasn't been banned, which is how i read your argument.
| 595 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:51:00am |
re: #593 garhighway
And the "do you hate Americans.." argument is contemptable. I presume good faith here. Why don't you?
I even used the sarc tag, which I don't normally do, just so you would know I was only joking. I use it because it's what's always said "why do you hate ...." and "it's for the children" and "if it saves just one life!". I take your argument at face value.
| 597 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:54:21am |
| 598 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:56:41am |
re: #591 RogueOne
They ALL have motives and no ones motives are "pure". They ALL LIE, it's all spin, everyone (including you and me) is biased. There is no such thing as a "disinterested advocacy group".
False.
There's lots of them. Again, to choose an obvious example, there's no big money in being pro-choice.
Ditto groups like the NRDC. They aren't fueled by money, they are fueled by their desire to do the right thing. And they plead in their own name.
It is certainly possible to go through life assuming that everyone is lying to you, everyday, all the time. That is not my experience and I therefore give people the benefit of the doubt. But I think it is a good thing for our nation that we require people and groups to be transparent on the source of their money when they want to engage in public discourse. It brings clarity.
| 599 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:57:04am |
How in the hell is this bigot still a public school board member?
Joel Burns responds to Arkansas school board member who encouraged gays to kill themselves
McCance made his comments on his own Facebook page (screen grab above) in response to last week’s Spirit Day, when people were asked to wear purple to support LGBT youth: “Seriously they want me to wear purple because five queers killed themselves. The only way im wearin it for them is if they all commit suicide. I cant believe the people of this world have gotten this stupid. We are honoring the fact that they sinned and killed thereselves because of their sin. REALLY PEOPLE.”
McCance wasn’t done, either. From The Advocate:
Initially, six people “liked” McCance’s message. He also received supportive comments, though some challenged his statement. A commenter wrote, “Because hatred is always right.” That led McCance to write, “No because being a fag doesn’t give you the right to ruin the rest of our lives. If you get easily offended by being called a fag then dont tell anyone you are a fag. Keep that shit to yourself. I dont care how people decide to live their lives. They dont bother me if they keep it to thereselves. It pisses me off though that we make a special purple fag day for them. I like that fags cant procreate. I also enjoy the fact that they often give each other aids and die. If you arent against it, you might as well be for it.”
McCance was again challenged on his statements — and his Christianity. Wrote one commenter: “YOU NEED TO STOP AND THINK FOR A SEC GREAT YOU BIG CHRISTIAN MAN ! SO KEEP ALL OF YOUR THOUGHTS TO YOUR SELF YOU DONT WANT PPL TALKIN ABOUT YOUR FAMILY SO DONT TALK BOUT OTHERS.”
McCance responded with, “I would disown my kids they were gay. They will not be welcome at my home or in my vicinity. I will absolutely run them off. Of course my kids will know better. My kids will have solid christian beliefs. See it infects everyone.“
| 600 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:03:51am |
re: #599 RadicalModerate
How in the hell is this bigot still a public school board member?
Joel Burns responds to Arkansas school board member who encouraged gays to kill themselves
That's seriously fucked up and chilling. It's the reason why I refuse to vote for anyone who claims to be so Christian because they will try to legislate their beliefs to the detriment of the rest of us.
| 601 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:04:59am |
re: #599 RadicalModerate
How in the hell is this bigot still a public school board member?
Joel Burns responds to Arkansas school board member who encouraged gays to kill themselves
Anyone can stay in the school system nowadays.
Academic Freedom and Holocaust Denial
A Pennsylvania English professor whose anti-Israel rhetoric and denial of the Holocaust as a historic certainty have ignited controversy is citing academic freedom as his defense.
Kaukab Siddique, associate professor of English and journalism at Lincoln University of Pennsylvania, appeared last month at a pro-Palestinian rally in Washington, where he called the state of Israel illegitimate. “I say to the Muslims, ‘Dear brothers and sisters, unite and rise up against this hydra-headed monster which calls itself Zionism,’ ” he said at a rally on Sept. 3. “Each one of us is their target and we must stand united to defeat, to destroy, to dismantle Israel -- if possible by peaceful means,” he added.
While many professors engage in anti-Israel rhetoric, Siddique is getting more scrutiny because his September comments prompted critics to unearth past statements that the Holocaust was a “hoax” intended to buttress support for Israel -- a position that the professor didn’t dispute in an interview Monday with Inside Higher Ed.
Siddique maintained that his comments should be placed in the framework of academic freedom, as an example of a questing mind asking tough questions. He also warned of dire consequences if universities can be intimidated by politicians and outside commentators. “That’s freedom of expression going up the smokestack here,” he said.
“I’m not an expert on the Holocaust. If I deny or support it, it doesn’t mean anything,” he said before invoking the firebombing of German cities during World War II and the U.S. bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as examples of the moral ambiguity of the war. “We can’t just sit back in judgment and say those guys were bad and we were the good guys,” he said. “I always try to look at both sides…. That’s part of being a professor.”
You see anyone in the education system is free to spew hate and call it 'academic freedom'.
| 602 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:24am |
re: #571 RogueOne
re: #567 Obdicut
That would be a great assessment if we didn't have any history to judge it against. We saw the same thing, including all the anger, in 2006, 1994, 1992, and 1982. "The economy is bad, the feds are spending too much, and something needs to be done" is a continual meme throughout our electoral history.
You're dead-set against actually looking at the fear-mongering, the effects of the larger amount of money flowing into politics, and any other aspects. You've decided-- without constructing an argument for why-- that excessive spending (without commensurate actual knowledge of what that spending consists of) and the economy are the only and exclusive reasons why anyone would vote GOP in this election.
That you think people were saying the economy was bad in 1994 is just funny. What was so bad about the economy of 1994, pray tell? Or do you just need to assert that because otherwise your other assertions look more ridiculous? We emerged from a recession in 1992, and by 1994 were having nice growth, low unemployment, and low inflation.
| 603 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:08:15am |
re: #572 RogueOne
Rogue, do you think the enormous amounts of spending poured into Proposition 8 in California had an effect on the passing of that measure?
re: #588 RogueOne
When the "free market" starts forming their own SWAT teams to make sure you only ingest what you're entitled to put in your body, then I'll worry.//
You know that this already happened, right? Many of the 'company towns's before the birth of organized labor and the passage of labor rights laws mandated what their workers could and could not buy, and often paid them in company scrip rather than actual cash, which they could only use at company stores.
| 604 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:09:27am |
re: #601 NJDhockeyfan
Dude, sometimes equivocation is just a forum ploy.
Other times it's just stupid.
As in this case.
You really think that a school board member talking about students over whom he manages ought to just kill themselves can be equivocated away by what that college professor said?
| 605 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:12:14am |
re: #601 NJDhockeyfan
Anyone can stay in the school system nowadays.
Academic Freedom and Holocaust Denial
You see anyone in the education system is free to spew hate and call it 'academic freedom'.
You're claiming that a untenured professor at a university is the same thing as a school board member? Hint: one of these people has the capability to influence policy toward teaching elementary, middle and high-school students (aka children), and is openly advocating that a group of them kill themselves. The other, (a bigot in his own right), might be able to influence a few members of his classroom of mostly young adults. No difference at all there.
| 606 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:27am |
re: #601 NJDhockeyfan
That guy is a complete asshole. He's also a complete coward, given that he's saying he's not an expert on the holocaust therefore what he says about it shouldn't matter-- the obvious conclusion is that he should keep his stupid mouth shut about the Holocaust.
He's also a coward, given his quick, appended coda of 'by peaceful means if possible' to his call for the destruction of Israel. That he cowardly does so doesn't make the very real fact that he's calling for the violent destruction of Israel any less real.
However, he is a professor, and not a policy maker. He is not a political figure on a school board. He certainly affects the classroom environment that he controls and I think he does deserve to be fired for calling for the destruction of a legitimate nation-- I don't think that should be protected speech. It's inflammatory in the extreme, especially when Israeli students might be at the university.
But it is nowhere near the gross insanity of saying that gay teenagers should kill themselves-- when the man saying it has as his responsibility the well-being of those teenagers.
| 607 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:17:05am |
re: #604 freetoken
Dude, sometimes equivocation is just a forum ploy.
Other times it's just stupid.
As in this case.
You really think that a school board member talking about students over whom he manages ought to just kill themselves can be equivocated away by what that college professor said?
Hate speech is hate speech, period. I wasn't aware there were different levels of hate speech. I guess Kaukab Siddique's hateful remarks don't rise enough to the level that would make you question him.
| 608 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:18:43am |
re: #607 NJDhockeyfan
Hate speech is hate speech, period. I wasn't aware there were different levels of hate speech.
Really? So if someone says "Israel has committed war crimes" and someone else says "All Jews should kill themselves right now", you don't see any difference in extremeness between those statements?
| 609 |
Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:19:40am |
re: #599 RadicalModerate
My reaction to reading that was immense repulsion.
But I guess everyone is different. Some apparently read it and immediately felt compelled to call on the magical balance fairy. I don't get it.
| 610 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:20:49am |
re: #605 RadicalModerate
You're claiming that a untenured professor at a university is the same thing as a school board member? Hint: one of these people has the capability to influence policy toward teaching elementary, middle and high-school students (aka children), and is openly advocating that a group of them kill themselves. The other, (a bigot in his own right), might be able to influence a few members of his classroom of mostly young adults. No difference at all there.
He is a tenured professor, not that it means anything. He's a hateful piece of shit who gets to keep on teaching children whatever he wants to without worrying about getting fired. Yes, I put him on the same shitheaded level of Joel Burns. They both suck.
| 611 |
Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:22:51am |
re: #610 NJDhockeyfan
Joel Burns is not the bigot. His name is Clint McCance.
| 612 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:23:10am |
re: #610 NJDhockeyfan
Is there any particular benefit to wiping out all gradation of shitheadedness, and simply creating one giant category called 'suck'?
The main benefit I can see is that it allows you to, whenever confronted with anyone on the 'right' behaving terribly, cite any example of someone you consider to be on the 'left' behaving badly.
I'm not sure what you think that achieves, though.
| 613 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:23:32am |
Tim Proffit is a wanted man:
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
| 614 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:23:57am |
re: #429 WindUpBird
also foreign policy matters, domestic policy matters more, especially these days
Our current woes are because of bad domestic policy, bad mortgage, lending and financial regulation mojo, allowing people with unprecedented influence on our financial system and our housing market to essentially ruin it, because people are greedy and stupid, especially the sorts of people whose lives are devoted to gaming markets.
And if you don't have laws governing greedy and stupid people and their behavior, they're going to break stuff!
We DID have laws about mortgages. And traditions. Things like requiring a down payment, or checking up on the borrower to see if they had the chance of a snowball in hell when it came to repaying.
Then the country got this bright idea that those laws and traditions stood in the way of universal homeownership, which they did, and that therefore they were bad policies and bad laws, which they weren't.
We have still not restored the previous, workable policies. What is needed are banking policies and laws that once again make extension of credit contingent on ability to repay.
And while we're at it, we might restrict the kinds of credit terms that can be offered. Enough with the dizzying array of terms, with balloon payments, teaser rates, interest-only initial payments, and the like. Trim it to maybe four choices: 15 year fixed rate, 30 year fixed rate, and ditto but with rates pegged to the inflation rate for the previous year, plus 4 percent. (Or 3, or 5, details can be thrashed out in committee.) This would help to close the door on practices that trap the buyer.
Computer models get pretty good at estimating who can repay, and who will. Using such a model ought to be an absolute defense to charges of discrimination: if the model is equally predictive for all races and sexes, give or take some statistical margin of error, and if you used it to make your decision, then that's that, you've treated the applicant fairly.
Appraising homes is another thing that needs fixing. Home values do not grow to the sky. Appraisers should be responsible, with their licenses, for compiling a defensible track record. Do their appraisals come in anywhere near the sales price that is actually recorded, down the road? [Take into account inflation, of course.]
| 615 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:23:59am |
re: #611 Winny Spencer
Joel Burns is not the bigot. His name is Clint McCance.
Oops, sorry about that. My mistake. You all know what I meant.
| 616 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:24:22am |
re: #607 NJDhockeyfan
Hate speech is hate speech, period. I wasn't aware there were different levels of hate speech. I guess Kaukab Siddique's hateful remarks don't rise enough to the level that would make you question him.
I don't see anyone supporting the professor's hateful remarks.
I simply do not understand the tactic of posting a "counter-hate" (for lack of a better word) example. What is the point of doing that? The only reason I can think of is to do just what you did above...throw out a statement that makes it sound like people don't care about your example, that your example is just a-okay in their eyes, while the other is not, thereby attempting to make them look hypocritical. Stupid tactic.
| 617 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:25:36am |
re: #613 BigPapa
And he wants the woman he attacked to apologize to him.
[Link: www.wkyt.com...]
And when asked if he would apologize to Valle. "I would like for her to apologize to me to be honest with you," Profitt said.
| 618 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:26:00am |
re: #612 Obdicut
Is there any particular benefit to wiping out all gradation of shitheadedness, and simply creating one giant category called 'suck'?
The main benefit I can see is that it allows you to, whenever confronted with anyone on the 'right' behaving terribly, cite any example of someone you consider to be on the 'left' behaving badly.
I'm not sure what you think that achieves, though.
Hateful bigots don't belong to the left or right. Bringing politics in wrong. Hate is hate.
| 619 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:26:22am |
re: #613 BigPapa
Tim Proffit is a wanted man:
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
| 620 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:26:45am |
re: #614 lostlakehiker
The policies of the private institutions were far, far, far, far, far more responsible for the extension of credit than any laws were. Unless you mean that we didn't regulate the financial industry enough, which is true.
| 621 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:22am |
re: #618 NJDhockeyfan
Hateful bigots don't belong to the left or right. Bringing politics in wrong. Hate is hate.
But all hate is not equivalent. Why is it so threatening to you to admit that?
Someone who wants gay people banned from adoption does not have hate on the same level as this asshole saying that gay teenagers should kill themselves. It is still bad; it is not equivalently so.
I'm asking you why you feel the need to assert that there are no differences, no levels of hatred. What benefit does that serve, beyond allowing you to create false equivalences?
| 622 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:42am |
re: #617 Obdicut
And he wants the woman he attacked to apologize to him.
[Link: www.wkyt.com...]
Maybe a little sloppy, but isn't this like a rapist saying 'she asked for it?'
| 623 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:54am |
re: #610 NJDhockeyfan
He is a tenured professor, not that it means anything. He's a hateful piece of shit who gets to keep on teaching children whatever he wants to without worrying about getting fired. Yes, I put him on the same shitheaded level of Joel Burns. They both suck.
Mistyped there - he's been tenured since 1985, and from the looks of things two Democratic lawmakers are already putting pressure on the university.
[Link: www.jta.org...]
Following last week's release of a videotape of the rally, state Sens. Daylin Leach and Anthony Hardy Williams, both Philadelphia-area Democrats, wrote to Lincoln President Ivory Nelson to find out if his "anti-Semitic diatribes" were being heard as well inside the university classrooms at the historically black university.
"We support academic freedom, and certainly a professor has the right to criticize Israel, or any other entity or policy he wishes," they wrote. But, the lawmakers said, 'the Holocaust is not a theory or opinion. It is historically documented fact, denied only by those with a hateful or anti-Semitic agenda."
| 624 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:30:43am |
Man, someone posts a story about a hateful education member and I add to it with another example of a hateful education member. Immediately I get attacked for it. How tolerant of you guys this morning!
| 625 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:33:00am |
re: #623 RadicalModerate
Mistyped there - he's been tenured since 1985, and from the looks of things two Democratic lawmakers are already putting pressure on the university.
[Link: www.jta.org...]
That's great. I hope they keep the pressure on the school to fire this guy. Can McCance be fired by the school board?
| 626 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:33:11am |
re: #624 NJDhockeyfan
Man, someone posts a story about a hateful education member and I add to it with another example of a hateful education member. Immediately I get attacked for it. How tolerant of you guys this morning!
I'm personally 'attacking' you for your really dumb assertion that there aren't any differences between different levels of hate. There are, and those differences are important to recognize.
Pretending you're simply being attacked out of nowhere is childish.
| 627 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:36:59am |
re: #625 NJDhockeyfan
Well, is anyone in the local GOP asking for him to be fired? Maybe you could research that.
You realize that by your logic, the general hate towards gays from the GOP in general is exactly equivalent to this fucker's call for their suicide, right? If hate is hate, then the mealy-mouthed "Gays are abberations" which is the majority view on the GOP side is the equivalent of this call for gays to kill themselves.
| 628 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:38:08am |
re: #626 Obdicut
I'm personally 'attacking' you for your really dumb assertion that there aren't any differences between different levels of hate. There are, and those differences are important to recognize.
Pretending you're simply being attacked out of nowhere is childish.
Both of these idiots hate speeches are way over the top. Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad. I'm not surprised.
| 629 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:40:23am |
re: #628 NJDhockeyfan
Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad. I'm not surprised.
You're doubling down on a losing hand.
| 630 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:40:58am |
re: #628 NJDhockeyfan
Both of these idiots hate speeches are way over the top. Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad. I'm not surprised.
Why say 'some of you' when I spent a few paragraphs detailing how I thought his comments were fucking terrible and he should be fired for it?
Why lie?
| 631 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:42:14am |
re: #628 NJDhockeyfan
Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad. I'm not surprised.
That's BS and you know it. Please quote one instance where someone thought Siddiques statements were even remotely acceptable.
We'll wait.
| 632 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:42:56am |
re: #630 Obdicut
Why say 'some of you' when I spent a few paragraphs detailing how I thought his comments were fucking terrible and he should be fired for it?
Why lie?
I ain't lying. I did say 'some of you'. They know who they are.
| 633 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:46am |
re: #628 NJDhockeyfan
Both of these idiots hate speeches are way over the top. Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad. I'm not surprised.
That's insulting.
| 634 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:44:47am |
re: #632 NJDhockeyfan
I ain't lying. I did say 'some of you'. They know who they are.
Why the fuck would you say that in a reply to me, though? How am I part of this 'you'?
I don't see anyone, at all, who have said that his comments aren't that bad. That is a lie. I see people saying that his comments aren't as bad as someone calling for gay teenagers to kill themselves.
| 635 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:46:10am |
re: #631 RadicalModerate
That's BS and you know it. Please quote one instance where someone thought Siddiques statements were even remotely acceptable.
We'll wait.
Apparently lack of responding to a pathetic attempt to change the subject equals finding hateful comments "not so bad."
| 636 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:48:15am |
re: #634 Obdicut
Why the fuck would you say that in a reply to me, though? How am I part of this 'you'?
Not you. I know you well and like you. You wouldn't think like that.
I don't see anyone, at all, who have said that his comments aren't that bad. That is a lie. I see people saying that his comments aren't as bad as someone calling for gay teenagers to kill themselves.
He called for the destruction of Israel. It doesn't get much worse than that.
| 637 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:49:09am |
re: #604 freetoken
You really think that a school board member talking about students over whom he manages ought to just kill themselves can be equivocated away by what that college professor said?
Of course. The Magical Balance Fairy is powerful like that. =P
| 638 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:51:13am |
re: #636 NJDhockeyfan
He called for the destruction of Israel. It doesn't get much worse than that.
Did you ever stop to think that some people didn't even bother reading your whole post because it was apparent in the first couple of lines that you were attempting to deflect for whatever reason from the original disgusting statements made by the school board member?
| 639 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:52:42am |
re: #636 NJDhockeyfan
Not you. I know you well and like you. You wouldn't think like that.
Then why did you say "Some of you"? How am I part of that "You"?
He called for the destruction of Israel. It doesn't get much worse than that.
Yes, it does. A school board member who has actual influence on the lives of teenagers in his district, who can actually affect them, has a lot more power and is therefore a lot worse when he tells them to kill themselves than a professor at university who has no power to influence policy towards Israel.
I'm not sure what your difficulty is in understanding that.
| 640 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:52:42am |
re: #636 NJDhockeyfan
He called for the destruction of Israel. It doesn't get much worse than that.
So calling for the destruction of Israel > telling a bunch of teenagers that you have direct influence over to kill themselves? Really?
Flap them wings, MBF!
| 641 |
Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:58:45am |
re: #632 NJDhockeyfan
So there are people here who have expressed views similar to Kaukab Siddique's? Really?
| 642 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:00am |
re: #639 Obdicut
Then why did you say "Some of you"? How am I part of that "You"?
You aren't sorry if you took it that way.
Yes, it does. A school board member who has actual influence on the lives of teenagers in his district, who can actually affect them, has a lot more power and is therefore a lot worse when he tells them to kill themselves than a professor at university who has no power to influence policy towards Israel.
Does he not have influence on the the kids in his classes not to mention some of the people who were at the Labor Day rally in Washington DC ?
| 643 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:25am |
re: #636 NJDhockeyfan
And you still haven't shown anyone saying that those comments 'aren't so bad'. So yes, you are still lying.
| 644 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:01:40am |
re: #643 Obdicut
And you still haven't shown anyone saying that those comments 'aren't so bad'. So yes, you are still lying.
I don't see the comments on here, you are correct. I also don't see some of them denouncing him either. I've denounced both of them.
| 645 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:02:01am |
re: #642 NJDhockeyfan
Yes. He does. Do those kids have influence on policy decisions on Israel? In an infinitesimal, tiny amount.
Does the school board member have a much greater influence on the lives of gay students in his schools? Yes.
Do you understand that by your 'hate = hate' logic, the general hate towards gays shown by the GOP is equivalent to this guy calling for their deaths? Is that really an argument you want to make?
| 646 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:02:26am |
School Board Member wishing gay kids would just kill themselves for making him wear purple
=
Professor ranting against Zionism and calling for destruction of Israel
=
what else?
All the same, right?
How about Hitler, Tim Proffit, Rev Wright, the crazy drunk down at the liquor store ranting about n*****'s..... all the same, no?
| 647 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:02:48am |
re: #642 NJDhockeyfan
Does he not have influence on the the kids in his classes not to mention some of the people who were at the Labor Day rally in Washington DC ?
Not even close to the same degree of influence by a longshot.
If a college professor says something stupid and/or offensive, students can leave the classroom. They can drop the course, change sections to someone else, or otherwise find some way to get away from that negative influence.
A teenager in middle school or high school is REQUIRED to go to school, and that school board member has direct control over the rules they have to live by, and the environment the kids are in. Also, not all parents can afford to take the kids out of school and home school or send them to private school because the school board members are bigoted assholes.
If you can't see the difference in those situations, I don't know what to tell you.
| 648 |
prairiefire Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:02:49am |
Oy, I ate too much Haggen-Daz Banana Foster ice cream last night.
| 649 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:03:15am |
re: #644 NJDhockeyfan
I don't see the comments on here, you are correct. I also don't see some of them denouncing him either. I've denounced both of them.
Then you did, in fact, lie. You cannot assume that lack of denunciation means anything, at all. Since you clearly brought up the subject in order to make a false equivalence argument, I don't see why anyone should actually cater to your need for denunciation. I only did to remove your ability to accuse me of not denouncing him, because I knew you would use that bullshit debating tactic.
| 650 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:04:43am |
re: #642 NJDhockeyfan
You aren't sorry if you took it that way.
Does he not have influence on the the kids in his classes not to mention some of the people who were at the Labor Day rally in Washington DC ?
Kids? He a damn college professor, which means that it's very likely that every one of his students is an adult. This means that its a pretty safe assumption that they are capable of making critical thinking decisions on their own.
Oh, and we're still waiting on that quote to back up your assertion that his statements were acceptable to some people here.
| 651 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:05:48am |
re: #644 NJDhockeyfan
I don't see the comments on here, you are correct. I also don't see some of them denouncing him either. I've denounced both of them.
Sure, after you tried to engage in a bit of nonsense first. FYI, not responding to your bait doesn't equal "not denouncing him."
I don't think Holocaust deniers should be in any classroom anywhere. I have absolutely no use for such despicable human beings.
| 652 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:05:49am |
re: #649 Obdicut
Then you did, in fact, lie. You cannot assume that lack of denunciation means anything, at all. Since you clearly brought up the subject in order to make a false equivalence argument, I don't see why anyone should actually cater to your need for denunciation. I only did to remove your ability to accuse me of not denouncing him, because I knew you would use that bullshit debating tactic.
Not a lie, just my opinion.
| 653 |
garhighway Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:07:21am |
re: #644 NJDhockeyfan
I don't see the comments on here, you are correct. I also don't see some of them denouncing him either. I've denounced both of them.
WTF?
Is there some list of NJD-decreed bad statements that we all have to line up and denounce? Because if there is, I'd like to see it. But given some of the crazy shit you say, I am most certainly not giving you my proxy.
Anyone who calls for the destruction of Israel is a piece of shit. That you think (as you seem to imply) that there are regular posters here that disagree is rather startling.
| 654 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:07:32am |
re: #651 Sionainn
Sure, after you tried to engage in a bit of nonsense first. FYI, not responding to your bait doesn't equal "not denouncing him."
I don't think Holocaust deniers should be in any classroom anywhere. I have absolutely no use for such despicable human beings.
I think we can both agree on that.
(Upding for ya)
| 655 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:07:58am |
re: #652 NJDhockeyfan
Not a lie, just my opinion.
Oh, you're claiming to be psychic? And using that as an excuse to say that people don't think anti-semitic comments aren't that bad? That's really, really stupid, dude.
Again:
Do you understand that by your 'hate = hate' logic, the general hate towards gays shown by the GOP is equivalent to this guy calling for their deaths? Is that really an argument you want to make?
| 656 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:08:24am |
re: #598 garhighway
False.
There's lots of them. Again, to choose an obvious example, there's no big money in being pro-choice.
Ditto groups like the NRDC. They aren't fueled by money, they are fueled by their desire to do the right thing. And they plead in their own name.
It is certainly possible to go through life assuming that everyone is lying to you, everyday, all the time. That is not my experience and I therefore give people the benefit of the doubt. But I think it is a good thing for our nation that we require people and groups to be transparent on the source of their money when they want to engage in public discourse. It brings clarity.
Waiting for a delivery, have more time to argue but I could disappear at any moment....
Weird that you think the only bias that matters is a financial stake. There is more to bias than finances. Everyone is biased in one way or another, everything that comes out of your mouth (and mine) regarding politics is biased. I don't know why that is a difficult concept to understand and I don't know why people insist on lying to themselves about their own biases. You can continue to believe that the groups you align with politically are only out there out of altruism but I stopped believing in the tooth fairy pretty early.
BTW, your example (Pro-Choice) is flawed. Planned Parenthood is a billion dollar organization that takes in almost half their money from fed/state sources.
| 657 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:09:59am |
re: #655 Obdicut
Do you understand that by your 'hate = hate' logic, the general hate towards gays shown by the GOP is equivalent to this guy calling for their deaths? Is that really an argument you want to make?
Anyone calling for deaths of gays or anyone else is an asshole and should be exposed.
| 658 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:09:59am |
re: #602 Obdicut
You're dead-set against actually looking at the fear-mongering, the effects of the larger amount of money flowing into politics, and any other aspects. You've decided-- without constructing an argument for why-- that excessive spending (without commensurate actual knowledge of what that spending consists of) and the economy are the only and exclusive reasons why anyone would vote GOP in this election.
That you think people were saying the economy was bad in 1994 is just funny. What was so bad about the economy of 1994, pray tell? Or do you just need to assert that because otherwise your other assertions look more ridiculous? We emerged from a recession in 1992, and by 1994 were having nice growth, low unemployment, and low inflation.
No, I'm dead set against the current belief that "zomg, it's never been this bad!" because we have 200+ years of history that shows otherwise.
| 659 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:12:41am |
re: #657 NJDhockeyfan
Anyone calling for deaths of gays or anyone else is an asshole and should be exposed.
Then why not just say that in the first place instead of posting about a Holocaust denier professor as a seeming rebuttal to the school board member?
| 660 |
prairiefire Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:13:24am |
For the sake of argument, "Democrats Outspending R's":[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 661 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:14:02am |
re: #656 RogueOne
I don't know why that is a difficult concept to understand and I don't know why people insist on lying to themselves about their own biases.
Because this idiotic statement just means "Everyone thinks what they think". Bias exists-- for example, you have an extreme bias against Democrats, because you think that they're weak on national security, and because you are an extreme anti-federalists. This bias blinds you to circumstances where the Democrats are much better on national security than the GOP.
BTW, your example (Pro-Choice) is flawed. Planned Parenthood is a billion dollar organization that takes in almost half their money from fed/state sources.
Some day you might want to try raising your credibility by getting some facts and figures straight, Rogue.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Planned Parenthood receives about a third of its money in government grants and contracts ($349.6 million in FY 2008). In the 2007–08 Annual Report, clinic income totaled $374.7 million and miscellaneous operating revenues $68.9 million. Planned Parenthood is also heavily sponsored by private individuals, with over 700,000 active individual contributors.
Of course, in your world of complete hyperbole, 1/3 = 1/2, if it suits your biases.
| 662 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:14:27am |
re: #659 Sionainn
Then why not just say that in the first place instead of posting about a Holocaust denier professor as a seeming rebuttal to the school board member?
Yo, destruction of Israel...get it?
| 663 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:14:36am |
re: #603 Obdicut
Rogue, do you think the enormous amounts of spending poured into Proposition 8 in California had an effect on the passing of that measure?
Money does not necessarily equate to winning an election otherwise the people I mentioned earlier wouldn't be losing. What got prop 8 passed was anti-gay marriage sentiment on the left and the right, just like in OH and ME. It's hard for the dems to admit it but there are quite a few religious liberals out there that are dead set against any form of gay marriage. Remember, a third of self-identified "evangelicals" voted for obama in '08.
Right now the dem groups are outspending the repubs, still think money is the root of all electoral evil? I didn't and still don't and won't again in 2012.
| 665 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:10am |
re: #662 NJDhockeyfan
Yo, destruction of Israel...get it?
It has nothing to do with the school board member.
| 666 |
AK-47% Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:18am |
I am just for truth in labelling. Just as anything we are going to eat should be labelled clearly with its ingredients, any political messges should be labelled clearly with their financial "ingredients", namely those individuals/corporations who are behind the message.
| 667 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:21am |
re: #652 NJDhockeyfan
Not a lie, just my opinion.
Your two quotes:
Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad.
and when challenged to back up that statement:
I ain't lying. I did say 'some of you'. They know who they are.
These are assertions, which is defined as a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason.
Not opinions.
| 668 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:27am |
re: #660 prairiefire
For the sake of argument, "Democrats Outspending R's":[Link: www.politico.com...]
I don't make my voting decisions based on who spends the most money. Does anyone?
| 669 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:39am |
re: #658 RogueOne
No, I'm dead set against the current belief that "zomg, it's never been this bad!" because we have 200+ years of history that shows otherwise.
I don't think it's never been this bad. I think it was worse at the height of McCarthyism. Yay.
So your stance is that throughout our 200 years of political history, things have always been equally bad?
| 670 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:18:40am |
The Rand Paul curbstomper has spoken, and the cops are totally to blame for everything:
The volunteer with Rand Paul's Republican U.S. Senate campaign who stepped on the head of a liberal activist and pinned her face to the concrete said Tuesday the scuffle was not as bad as it looked on video and blamed police for not intervening.
"I'm sorry that it came to that, and I apologize if it appeared overly forceful, but I was concerned about Rand's safety," Tim Profitt told The Associated Press.
--SNIP--
Profitt said the fight never would have occurred if police officers had intervened earlier.
"A friend of mine went up to three policeman before Rand got there, and told them about the girl who was standing there with that wig on and that she was getting ready to do something," Profitt said. "The policemen looked at him and said that's not our job."
So much for personal responsibility. =P
| 671 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:19:39am |
re: #662 NJDhockeyfan
Yo, destruction of Israel...get it?
What a person says matters, at the expense of nothing else?
If some bum in the street who nobody listens to says 'Israel must die!' then it's bad. Likewise, if Obama says 'Israel must die!' then it's the same?
Because a school board member calling on gay kids to kill themselves is the same as a professor calling for the destruction of Israel, to which you've rejected clarifying if there is a difference, thereby there is no difference.
| 672 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:20:27am |
The president is coming to town here on Friday.
| 673 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:20:29am |
re: #663 RogueOne
Right now the dem groups are outspending the repubs, still think money is the root of all electoral evil?
I never said it was the root of all electoral evil. You really, really need to learn how to try to make an argument without lying constantly, Rogue.
I do think that it is terrible no matter who is being bought; and yes, I think the huge amount of funding for Democrats is just as coercive and distortionary as the huge amounts of funding for the GOP. However, that article says, in its very beginning: "It’s true that conservative third-party groups are outspending their Democratic rivals. "
And that part is the most corruptive influence on our politics; unaccountable third-party groups with far fewer spending restrictions than the parties.
It's hard for the dems to admit it but there are quite a few religious liberals out there that are dead set against any form of gay marriage.
It's not hard at all. There's a lot of anti-gay sentiment in the Democrats as well.
There is far, far, far more on the GOP said. Enormously more. So your attempt at equivalence fails, as usual.
What got prop 8 passed was anti-gay marriage sentiment on the left and the right, just like in OH and ME.
So you feel that political advertising has zero effect? None at all?
Do you think ordinary advertising also has zero effect?
| 674 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:21:24am |
re: #666 ralphieboy
I am just for truth in labelling. Just as anything we are going to eat should be labelled clearly with its ingredients, any political messges should be labelled clearly with their financial "ingredients", namely those individuals/corporations who are behind the message.
I'm totally in favor of politicians wearing NASCAR-style racing suits with all the logos of their corporate sponsors prominently displayed. That would be a step in the right direction, I think.
| 675 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:23:05am |
re: #661 Obdicut
Because this idiotic statement just means "Everyone thinks what they think". Bias exists-- for example, you have an extreme bias against Democrats, because you think that they're weak on national security, and because you are an extreme anti-federalists. This bias blinds you to circumstances where the Democrats are much better on national security than the GOP.
Some day you might want to try raising your credibility by getting some facts and figures straight, Rogue.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Of course, in your world of complete hyperbole, 1/3 = 1/2, if it suits your biases.
I have an extreme bias in this election cycle against dems and I take that into consideration when I'm looking at the national mood. Having a bias isn't bad, not realizing it or taking it into consideration is what I consider "lying to yourself". Expanding on that, the belief that there are politically active groups out there that aren't in any way biased is akin to believing in the tooth fairy.
Nice wiki link, try an actual report from Planned Parenthood and scroll down to page 18:
(pdf link)
[Link: www.plannedparenthood.org...]
$966 million in revenue and almost $350 came from government grants/contracts.
Next time do a little research before you let your bias take control and make wild accusations.
| 676 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:25:31am |
So...
What're we arguing about this morning?
:)
| 677 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:25:50am |
re: #673 Obdicut
So republican 3rd party groups are spending enough to almost make the spending equal on both sides and you still have a problem with that. I'm not surprised, as long as it's team blue outspending team red you're ok but as soon as it gets equal all the sudden it's the end of the democracy, a koch brother under every bush.
| 678 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:27:13am |
re: #676 Varek Raith
So...
What're we arguing about this morning?
:)
I'm not sure anymore. The sound of the Magical Balance Fairy's wings flapping is drowning out all the ambient noise. ;)
| 679 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:28:19am |
re: #675 RogueOne
I have an extreme bias in this election cycle against dems and I take that into consideration when I'm looking at the national mood.
That you for using the qualifier 'extreme'; this is your first step in realizing that your assertion that 'everyone has biases' is meaningless, since everyone's biases are not comparatively equal.
$966 million in revenue and almost $350 came from government grants/contracts.
Can you just not do math or something?
349.6 million is 36.1% of 966 million.
If you honestly think that 36.1% is close to 50%, I think we've explained a lot of your problems with economics.
| 680 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:28:25am |
re: #676 Varek Raith
So...
What're we arguing about this morning?
:)
How about nuns selling baseball cards?
| 681 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:29:15am |
re: #608 Obdicut
Really? So if someone says "Israel has committed war crimes" and someone else says "All Jews should kill themselves right now", you don't see any difference in extremeness between those statements?
Well, he actually said "Israel should be dismantled by peaceful means" which would include all Jews killing themselves right now, in order to spare their enemies the trauma of having to commit genocide.
Also, did I see upthread somebody ask if Scott Roeder considers himself a "Messianic Jew"? (i.e. "Jew for Jesus")
| 682 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:29:33am |
re: #670 Lidane
Oh yeah. He also claimed that he wouldn't have stomped on her had he not had a bad back.
Right, because stomping on someone is so less injurious to an already bad back. Keep making excuses there. Blame the police for not showing up. Blame the victim. Blame everyone but the one person who actually engaged in the criminal act of assault - himself.
While the police appear to be limited by KY law as to what they can charge, it shouldn't stop the victim from making sure that he's prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
| 683 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:30:32am |
re: #677 RogueOne
So republican 3rd party groups are spending enough to almost make the spending equal on both sides and you still have a problem with that.
Do you have any proof for this assertion at all?
I'm not surprised, as long as it's team blue outspending team red you're ok but as soon as it gets equal all the sudden it's the end of the democracy, a koch brother under every bush.
I am equally against the democrats being corporate whores. They are, and it's crippled our legislation for decades upon decades-- for a long time, nobody bothered donating much to the GOP since they weren't anywhere close to power. I would like to see immense restrictions on political spending for all sides.
You have absolutely no basis for your accusation, but you need to make because you prefer to have a bizarre fantasy about what I believe than actually engage with what I believe.
| 684 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:31:15am |
Rand Paul's head-stomping piece of shit campaign worker wants an apology from his victim? What the fuck is going on in this country?
| 685 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:31:35am |
We're the 22nd least corrupt nation.
Awesome.
/acidic
| 686 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:32:04am |
re: #682 lawhawk
Oh yeah. He also claimed that he wouldn't have stomped on her had he not had a bad back.
Right, because stomping on someone is so less injurious to an already bad back. Keep making excuses there. Blame the police for not showing up. Blame the victim. Blame everyone but the one person who actually engaged in the criminal act of assault - himself.
While the police appear to be limited by KY law as to what they can charge, it shouldn't stop the victim from making sure that he's prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
He'll probably sue her for damaging his good name in the community next.
| 687 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:32:24am |
Having a bias isn't bad, not realizing it or taking it into consideration is what I consider "lying to yourself".
Who are lying to themselves?
| 688 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:32:31am |
re: #685 Varek Raith
We're the 22nd least corrupt nation.
Awesome.
/acidic
We're twenty-two! We're twenty-two! We're twenty-two!
| 689 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:33:04am |
| 690 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:34:19am |
| 691 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:19am |
| 692 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:25am |
re: #690 darthstar
I saw that. Well, I hope his getting openly mocked and shamed across the country suffices.
Pfft. He's going to be treated as a martyr by the wingnuts if he doesn't get an apology from the woman he assaulted.
| 693 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:36am |
re: #689 PT Barnum
That should be a fine day in Hell before he gets an apology. He's the idiot who should be apologizing. But for his stomping on her - this incident would not have occurred. She was fully within her rights to protest and engage in speech and conduct.
| 694 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:40am |
This is my first mid terms since I registered at LGF. After perusing search with a couple terms, it appears voter ID and purging has not been a big topic. That's kinda surprising to me.
| 695 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:58am |
| 696 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:36:30am |
re: #692 Lidane
I like how he manages to throw shit on the cops at the same time too-- what did he want them to do? Engage in prior restraint?
| 697 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:36:49am |
re: #691 darthstar
[Link: verydemotivational.memebase.com...]
You know you're screwed when even the Stooges see a fail.
| 698 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:37:27am |
re: #693 lawhawk
That should be a fine day in Hell before he gets an apology. He's the idiot who should be apologizing. But for his stomping on her - this incident would not have occurred. She was fully within her rights to protest and engage in speech and conduct.
Her rights? What about HIS rights? She's walking around with an unregulated uterus! She shouldn't have rights!
// snark, people, serious teabagger snark!
| 699 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:37:53am |
re: #694 Rightwingconspirator
This is my first mid terms since I registered at LGF. After perusing search with a couple terms, it appears voter ID and purging has not been a big topic. That's kinda surprising to me.
Just to let you know the posts on election night will be running very fast. Be prepared.
| 700 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:37:56am |
re: #697 lawhawk
[Link: verydemotivational.memebase.com...]
You know you're screwed when even the Stooges see a fail.
But if you ask the Stooges (and even add in Frank Sinatra) and ask them to point right they point in different directions! ;)
| 701 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:38:00am |
re: #696 Obdicut
I like how he manages to throw shit on the cops at the same time too-- what did he want them to do? Engage in prior restraint?
There's a reason the police in Kentucky are endorsing Jack Conway.
| 702 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:39:22am |
re: #694 Rightwingconspirator
This is my first mid terms since I registered at LGF. After perusing search with a couple terms, it appears voter ID and purging has not been a big topic. That's kinda surprising to me.
It's starting. Michele Malkin was on Fox the other day saying that everyone needs to be a poll-watcher and voter-fraud investigator.
| 703 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:40:46am |
re: #699 NJDhockeyfan
Seriously, I was planning to plug in my laptop and go dual monitor style. Sounds like when the President has a big speech. I recall one lightning fast thread like that. Went to 1000 pretty fast as I recall.
| 704 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:40:51am |
re: #696 Obdicut
I like how he manages to throw shit on the cops at the same time too-- what did he want them to do? Engage in prior restraint?
"SHE'S A LIBRUL! ARREST HER FOR TREASON!"
/wingnut
| 705 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:42:38am |
re: #702 darthstar
And voter intimidation has already started, too:
| 706 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:42:50am |
| 707 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:42:52am |
re: #703 Rightwingconspirator
Seriously, I was planning to plug in my laptop and go dual monitor style. Sounds like when the President has a big speech. I recall one lightning fast thread like that. Went to 1000 pretty fast as I recall.
I think Charles had to break it up into three threads if I recall. It's hard to keep up sometimes.
| 708 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:44:18am |
re: #707 NJDhockeyfan
I think Charles had to break it up into three threads if I recall. It's hard to keep up sometimes.
Heh, old people.
/
:P
| 709 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:44:29am |
| 710 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:45:13am |
| 711 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:45:47am |
re: #705 Obdicut
And voter intimidation has already started, too:
Every election voter fraud is found all over the place. You would think they would have been able to fix that problem over the years but each time it seems to get worse.
| 712 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:45:53am |
| 713 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:46:13am |
| 714 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:47:03am |
re: #702 darthstar
Well my take is the government has been seriously remiss in election regulations, infrastructure and oversight. My take on the stats is an error margin of nearly 2% either way, at the traditional 95% confidence number. I'm no stats expert, just read too much about it. :)
I took a long look at the Sanchez v Dornan thing back when. Yes she won clearly, but they found far more votes from undocumented than I was comfortable with. BUT-Not nearly enough to reverse the result. Not a clean win, but a win.
| 715 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:47:46am |
Here's another asshole (and School Board Member in Arkansas) who will be demanding an apology soon.
Clint McCance, who says that "fags" should kill themselves
| 716 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:47:51am |
re: #711 NJDhockeyfan
Every election voter fraud is found all over the place. You would think they would have been able to fix that problem over the years but each time it seems to get worse.
Even though any number of investigations have failed to turn up any widespread instances of people being allowed to vote that shouldn't. Registration irregularities is the best they've come up with to my knowledge.
| 717 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:48:45am |
re: #715 darthstar
Here's another asshole (and School Board Member in Arkansas) who will be demanding an apology soon.
Clint McCance, who says that "fags" should kill themselves
Wow...
Seriously they want me to wear purple because five queers killed themselves. The only way im wearin it for them is if they all commit suicide. I cant believe the people of this world have gotten this stupid. We are honoring the fact that they sinned and killed thereselves because of their sin. REALLY PEOPLE.
| 718 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:48:46am |
re: #715 darthstar
Here's another asshole (and School Board Member in Arkansas) who will be demanding an apology soon.
Clint McCance, who says that "fags" should kill themselves
Check upthread. What that guy said = a college professor calling for the destruction of Israel.
| 719 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:49:06am |
re: #711 NJDhockeyfan
Every election voter fraud is found all over the place. You would think they would have been able to fix that problem over the years but each time it seems to get worse.
No, I'm sorry, you're wrong.
A probe by the Bush DOJ found that there was no evidence of any sort of systemic voter fraud, and most incidents of 'fraud' were explainable by error.
Your belief is founded on a perception that has been pushed heavily, but it is not, in fact, reality.
[Link: www.truthaboutfraud.org...]
| 720 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:50:46am |
re: #693 lawhawk
That should be a fine day in Hell before he gets an apology. He's the idiot who should be apologizing. But for his stomping on her - this incident would not have occurred. She was fully within her rights to protest and engage in speech and conduct.
You aren't within your rights to rush a candidate for office. If she had pulled the same stunt with an elected official she could have been shot. The hillbilly that stomped on her deserves what he gets but lets not forget the "don't be an a-hole" rule.
| 721 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:51:04am |
re: #705 Obdicut
Former Voting Section Chief John Tanner, who resigned from the Justice Department in 2007 after he commented that voter identification laws were an imposition on white people because "minorities die first," is representing the county attorney's office.
Well...they certainly hire unbiased people, don't they?
| 722 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:51:38am |
ARRGH, the stupid!
Makes me want to push the button of doom!
| 723 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:51:54am |
Sometimes, I think that we're headed towards quite the dystopian future with more than a few of the GOP candidates' views being pitched.
| 724 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:52:28am |
re: #701 darthstar
There's a reason the police in Kentucky are endorsing Jack Conway.
Knowing who the FOP endorses always helps me make my decisions......
| 725 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:52:31am |
re: #720 RogueOne
You aren't within your rights to rush a candidate for office.
Can you explain what you mean by this statement?
Nobody has the right to attempt to push through a crowd to get near a candidate? Nobody has the right to attempt to hand a candidate something?
I wasn't aware you favored such heavy restrictions on free speech.
| 726 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:54:42am |
re: #720 RogueOne
You aren't within your rights to rush a candidate for office. If she had pulled the same stunt with an elected official she could have been shot. The hillbilly that stomped on her deserves what he gets but lets not forget the "don't be an a-hole" rule.
She was an asshole for doing what? She was accused of 'rushing' Paul by the hillbilly that stomped but I'd take that with a grain of salt.
What did she do wrong other than offend conservative sensibilities?
| 727 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:55:01am |
re: #725 Obdicut
Can you explain what you mean by this statement?
Nobody has the right to attempt to push through a crowd to get near a candidate? Nobody has the right to attempt to hand a candidate something?
I wasn't aware you favored such heavy restrictions on free speech.
Easy. When you decide to get your 15 minutes by rushing a candidate for office, pray there aren't any trigger happy police escorts/secret service agents nearby. You're more than entitled to heckle, scream, yell, show whatever placards you want but when you make an aggressive rush towards a candidate you're asking for trouble.
| 728 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:55:17am |
re: #725 Obdicut
- FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH!
- Don't approach the candidate Ma'am. Ma'am! MA'AM!
(stomps small woman on head)
| 729 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:56:04am |
re: #719 Obdicut
Maybe the Sanchez-Dornan incident falls below the "systemic" standard. But hundreds of votes from undocumented aliens were found by the House investigation. Now as I said Dornan lost anyway, but there was a good reason to tighten up. That never happened.
| 730 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:56:08am |
re: #728 iossarian
- FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH!
- Don't approach the candidate Ma'am. Ma'am! MA'AM!
(stomps small woman on
headshoulder)
Fixed for the GOP.
| 731 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:56:19am |
re: #727 RogueOne
Easy. When you decide to get your 15 minutes by rushing a candidate for office, pray there aren't any trigger happy police escorts/secret service agents nearby. You're more than entitled to heckle, scream, yell, show whatever placards you want but when you make an aggressive rush towards a candidate you're asking for trouble.
Um, okay, I was hoping you'd actually, you know, support your completely wrong opinion in some way, not just reassert it. Sorry if I wasn't clear-- I should have been, given that you never actually support your assertions.
when you make an aggressive rush towards a candidate you're asking for trouble.
Can you show me this aggressive rush? When did this happen?
| 733 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:57:35am |
re: #729 Rightwingconspirator
Maybe the Sanchez-Dornan incident falls below the "systemic" standard. But hundreds of votes from undocumented aliens were found by the House investigation. Now as I said Dornan lost anyway, but there was a good reason to tighten up. That never happened.
The problem is that 'tightening up' inevitably disenfranchises legal voters. The question becomes a systems engineering one: there are two goals, only one of which is restricting illegal votes. The other is attempting to maximize legal voters being able to vote.
| 734 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:58:18am |
re: #719 Obdicut
No, I'm sorry, you're wrong.
A probe by the Bush DOJ found that there was no evidence of any sort of systemic voter fraud, and most incidents of 'fraud' were explainable by error.
Your belief is founded on a perception that has been pushed heavily, but it is not, in fact, reality.
[Link: www.truthaboutfraud.org...]
Just a quick look I found this story in the NYT from back in 1994:
Vote-Fraud Ruling Shifts Pennsylvania Senate
Saying Philadelphia's election system had collapsed under "a massive scheme" by Democrats to steal a State Senate election in November, a Federal judge today took the rare step of invalidating the vote and ordered the seat filled by the Republican candidate.
In making such a sweeping move, the judge, Clarence C. Newcomer of Federal District Court here, did for the Republicans what the election had not: enable them to regain control of the State Senate, which they lost two years ago.
...On many of the ballots, they used the names of people who were living in Puerto Rico or serving time in prison, and in one case, the voter had been dead for some time.
"Substantial evidence was presented establishing massive absentee ballot fraud, deception, intimidation, harassment and forgery," Judge Newcomer wrote in a decision made public today.
...the two Democrats on the three-member board of elections, an elected body, testified that they were aware of the voter fraud, had intentionally failed to enforce the election law and had later tried to conceal their activities by hurriedly certifying the Democratic candidate as the winner.
Judge Newcomer ordered that Mr. Stinson, a 49-year-old former assistant deputy mayor of Philadelphia, be removed from his State Senate office and that Mr. Marks, a 36-year-old lawyer and former aide to United States Senator Arlen Specter, be certified the winner within 72 hours.
| 735 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:58:38am |
re: #718 Lidane
Check upthread. What that guy said = a college professor calling for the destruction of Israel.
There are some people who are so incapable of discussing disturbing people with whom they share views that they'll equate anything with a someone critical of Israel. I try to ignore those arguments as they're just dead ends.
| 736 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:58:47am |
re: #733 Obdicut
The problem is that 'tightening up' inevitably disenfranchises legal voters. The question becomes a systems engineering one: there are two goals, only one of which is restricting illegal votes. The other is attempting to maximize legal voters being able to vote.
Damn. I really hate to go now. Please lets take this up later? I subscribed to the thread just now...
| 737 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:58:59am |
re: #726 BigPapa
She was an asshole for doing what? She was accused of 'rushing' Paul by the hillbilly that stomped but I'd take that with a grain of salt.
What did she do wrong other than offend conservative sensibilities?
Look, if I decided to break a union picket line carrying an anti-union sign I would expect to get my ass kicked. What if someone did the same thing to a president, would we be discussing her 1st amendment rights while the secret service manhandled her? She made a physical rush towards a candidate, what if she had a weapon? I never suggested she deserved to get stomped on but people have to use a little common sense.
| 739 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:59:32am |
I found video of the aggressive rush, by the way:
| 740 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:59:47am |
re: #736 Rightwingconspirator
Damn. I really hate to go now. Please lets take this up later? I subscribed to the thread just now...
Sure.
| 741 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:00:09am |
re: #737 RogueOne
Look, if I decided to break a union picket line carrying an anti-union sign I would expect to get my ass kicked. What if someone did the same thing to a president, would we be discussing her 1st amendment rights while the secret service manhandled her? She made a physical rush towards a candidate, what if she had a weapon? I never suggested she deserved to get stomped on but people have to use a little common sense.
So, you trust the guy who stomped on her head?
After all, he's the one who says that she "rushed Rand Paul".
| 742 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:00:11am |
re: #731 Obdicut
Can you show me this aggressive rush? When did this happen?
Didn't you know? It happened when a liberal activist dared to get within 500 miles of a Republican candidate instead of turning herself in to the gubmint for being a traitor. She was clearly asking for it.
/wingnut
| 743 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:00:42am |
re: #737 RogueOne
Someone just threw a book at Obama and wasn't shot, manhandled, or in any other way mistreated.
Can you actually cite a time that someone was shot for rushing towards a candidate? Or did you just conveniently make that up?
Can you explain why you think she 'rushed', while you're at it?
| 744 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:01:25am |
re: #741 Varek Raith
So, you trust the guy who stomped on her head?
After all, he's the one who says that she "rushed Rand Paul".
Never said that, what I said was that "hillbilly will get what he has coming". And we all saw the video and saw her explain her side of the event, she wanted to get next to paul to hand him an "employee of the month" card.
| 745 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:02:20am |
re: #744 RogueOne
Never said that, what I said was that "hillbilly will get what he has coming". And we all saw the video and saw her explain her side of the event, she wanted to get next to paul to hand him an "employee of the month" card.
Damn, that does sound dangerous.
//
| 746 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:02:23am |
re: #744 RogueOne
...she wanted to get next to paul to hand him an "employee of the month" card.
Well who doesn't want to do that?
//
| 747 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:02:29am |
re: #743 Obdicut
Someone just threw a book at Obama and wasn't shot, manhandled, or in any other way mistreated.
Can you actually cite a time that someone was shot for rushing towards a candidate? Or did you just conveniently make that up?
Can you explain why you think she 'rushed', while you're at it?
Possibly because no one saw who did it? I'd wager his secret service team got a severe ass chewing about it too.
| 748 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:02:45am |
More footage of liberals accosting GOP candidates for office:
| 749 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:03:15am |
re: #743 Obdicut
Someone just threw a book at Obama and wasn't shot, manhandled, or in any other way mistreated.
Oh, but approaching a Republican candidate for Senate > throwing a book at a Democratic president. Clearly one is more severe than the other. =P
| 750 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:03:15am |
re: #745 Sionainn
Damn, that does sound dangerous.
//
but how would anyone know until after the fact? When people rush candidates bad things happen, ask the kennedy family.
| 751 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:03:23am |
re: #737 RogueOne
Look, if I decided to break a union picket line carrying an anti-union sign I would expect to get my ass kicked. What if someone did the same thing to a president, would we be discussing her 1st amendment rights while the secret service manhandled her? She made a physical rush towards a candidate, what if she had a weapon? I never suggested she deserved to get stomped on but people have to use a little common sense.
Common sense dictates that we get the facts straight first before we discuss the realities and practicalities. She wasn't rushing a union line or 'rushing the President.' She 'admitted,' though it's not wrong, of trying to get a picture taken holding a placard next to Paul. The 'rushing' assertion is being made by the guys at the Paul rally, and common sense would dictate that they would be doing this to protect Profitt.
So did she really 'rush' Paul or do anything insecure or offensive? Until I see otherwise Profitt's assertions and those around him are guilty of their own biases, no?
| 752 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:03:33am |
re: #747 RogueOne
Possibly because no one saw who did it? I'd wager his secret service team got a severe ass chewing about it too.
You must have missed this part, Rogue:
Can you actually cite a time that someone was shot for rushing towards a candidate? Or did you just conveniently make that up?
Can you explain why you think she 'rushed', while you're at it?
| 753 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:04:06am |
re: #737 RogueOne
Look, if I decided to break a union picket line carrying an anti-union sign I would expect to get my ass kicked. What if someone did the same thing to a president, would we be discussing her 1st amendment rights while the secret service manhandled her? She made a physical rush towards a candidate, what if she had a weapon? I never suggested she deserved to get stomped on but people have to use a little common sense.
What if she was wearing a suicide belt!??!! What if she had a communicable disease?!?! What if she, gasp, wasn't Christain!?!?!11ty!
| 754 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:04:12am |
re: #749 Lidane
Oh, but approaching a Republican candidate for Senate > throwing a book at a Democratic president. Clearly one is more severe than the other. =P
Don't try putting words in my mouth. Whoever threw the book is also lucky they weren't shot.
| 755 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:04:45am |
I guess whoever doesn't win in any election is instantly going to start yelling about voter fraud, and demand recounts, etc. Then it's on to the "2nd Amendment remedies". I guess if Karzai ever leaves office he can come here and make a comfortable living as a campaign strategist.
| 756 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:05:27am |
re: #747 RogueOne
Possibly because no one saw who did it? I'd wager his secret service team got a severe ass chewing about it too.
You do realize that Congressional and Senatorial candidates don't get US Secret Service protection, don't you?
| 757 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:05:31am |
re: #751 BigPapa
We all saw the video. She wasn't walking calmly to talk to paul, she was trying to get through the supporters and catch up to him.
for the eightieth time, I'm not saying she had a stomping coming. I'm saying she should have used her head before she tried to get herself on tv.
| 758 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:06am |
re: #757 RogueOne
So your version of rushing is 'trying to get through a crowd'?
It's really, really funny that you call yourself a libertarian.
| 759 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:26am |
re: #755 negativ
I guess whoever doesn't win in any election is instantly going to start yelling about voter fraud, and demand recounts, etc. Then it's on to the "2nd Amendment remedies". I guess if Karzai ever leaves office he can come here and make a comfortable living as a campaign strategist.
My concern is that some of these unhinged teabaggers will actually start exercising their 2nd Amendment solutions when their candidates lose.
| 760 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:28am |
Time for some niceness.
Yesterday was in a hotel and took ill. In my room all day (both riding the porcelon honda and praising the porcelean goddess), called the front desk to call off housekeeping... The staff front desk sent someone to a drug store and brought me some ginger-ale, Rolaids and chicken soup.
Unfortunately, I thought to tell these wonderful, considerate people that I was a vegetarian and couldn't eat the soup. (I later apologized)...
But, it was a fantastically kind gesture. I actually teared up.
| 761 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:35am |
re: #756 RadicalModerate
In that case, he was referring to the dude throwing the book at Obama.
| 762 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:44am |
Come on. If there was video footage of someone being manhandled to the ground at an Obama rally, with some college hippie standing on his throat, I find it difficult to believe that all the wingers would be standing around going, "fair enough, he was trying to get closer to the president after all."
| 763 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:55am |
Big Drudge headline this morning: HILLARY FLEES USA FOR ELECTION!
Wingnuts just keep getting weirder.
| 764 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:07:20am |
re: #760 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Time for some niceness.
Yesterday was in a hotel and took ill. In my room all day (both riding the porcelon honda and praising the porcelean goddess), called the front desk to call off housekeeping... The staff front desk sent someone to a drug store and brought me some ginger-ale, Rolaids and chicken soup.
Unfortunately, I thought to tell these wonderful, considerate people that I was a vegetarian and couldn't eat the soup. (I later apologized)...
But, it was a fantastically kind gesture. I actually teared up.
That really was nice. I hope you are feeling better today.
| 766 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:07:39am |
re: #752 Obdicut
You must have missed this part, Rogue:
Do you really not know of any elected official who was killed by someone? You do realize we've had more than a few attempts on politicians lives in the last 30 years. The secret service takes this stuff seriously, they are the most humor deprived agency on the planet.
Tell you what, next time Obama or Mayor Bloomberg is around, try rushing up next to him with a sign and tell us what happens.
| 767 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:08:07am |
re: #763 Killgore Trout
At the top (also) the election boogyman word is also there.
Ever had an election where some folks weren't "disenfranchised"?
| 768 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:08:38am |
re: #756 RadicalModerate
You do realize that Congressional and Senatorial candidates don't get US Secret Service protection, don't you?
Who would you rather run into, the secret service or a Kentucky state trooper?
| 769 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:08:44am |
re: #766 RogueOne
Huh. Weird, you dodged the questions yet again. Try one more time?
Can you actually cite a time that someone was shot for rushing towards a candidate? Or did you just conveniently make that up?
And furthermore, you are really saying that someone trying to get through a crowd to get near a candidate is 'rushing'? That is your actual definition of 'rushing'?
| 770 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:10:26am |
re: #769 Obdicut
Huh. Weird, you dodged the questions yet again. Try one more time?
And furthermore, you are really saying that someone trying to get through a crowd to get near a candidate is 'rushing'? That is your actual definition of 'rushing'?
Rogue is one of the people I just say "What the hell is wrong with you that you think that the actions taken were in any way justified or blamable on the victim of the assault?" I'll bet he thinks if someone dresses provocatively and then gets raped it's their fault too.
| 771 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:10:45am |
| 772 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:10:48am |
re: #769 Obdicut
Would've been cool if someone would have shot Booth or Sirhan.
Not taking a side, I'm just sayin'...
| 773 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:10:53am |
For trying to get to through the crowd to get to Paul she somehow is 'stupid?'
And I've not seen this aggressive 'trying to get through the crowd' in the video that somehow caused her to take some blame in her serious mistreatment.
| 774 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:11:16am |
re: #770 PT Barnum
He has a really weird concept of 'rights' in general. He once asserted his 'right' to commit assault, because he knew there'd be a punishment for it and accepted that.
| 775 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:11:34am |
Oh. That is how you spell porcelain.
| 776 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:11:57am |
re: #772 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Would've been cool if someone would have shot Booth or Sirhan.
Not taking a side, I'm just sayin'...
But it wouldn't have been cool if someone had shot the thousands of people who have pushed through crowds to try to get near to candidates.
| 777 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:12:15am |
re: #766 RogueOne
Candidate safety is a concern, but does Valle's actions rise to the level of being a security threat? I don't think so. It certainly doesn't rise to the level of someone on Paul's campaign stomping on her head when she no longer poses a threat (after all, she's already on the ground and can no longer get near Paul). There are other easier and better ways to detain someone who might conceivably pose a threat without giving the person a concussion.
| 778 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:13:05am |
As the woman pushed through the crowds to try to touch Jesus's robe, Matthew pulled out his Glock and plugged her between the eyes.
"Sorry Ma'am, can't be approachin' the candidate."
| 779 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:13:40am |
re: #769 Obdicut
You're right, it's completely unreasonable to believe that rushing a candidate for office is a bad idea. Nothing bad has ever come from people rushing candidates, Sirhan Sirhan was just misunderstood. Sarah Moore was actually trying to shoot someone else and Ford just got in the way. John Hinkley was actually aiming for the taxi. The secret service and the state police have no reason to be concerned with civilians rushing up next to a candidate.
Like I said, go to a mayor bloomberg rally and try to rush up next to him with a sign and see how it goes.
| 780 |
Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:14:14am |
Back to last night's subject:
The first I heard of the Tiller murder was right here at LGF, Dr. Tiller Shot to Death at Wichita Church.
What struck me at the time was the astonishingly cold-blooded and heinous nature of the crime: shooting an unarmed man in the head at point-blank range in the foyer of a church.
What does it take to walk up to an old man while he is passing out church bulletins, put a gun to his head and pull the trigger? Now, judging from his pre-murder history, Scott Roeder was not an especially cruel person and he certainly wasn't a psychopath. I really think he could not have done this without the continuous drumbeat of dehumanization from the crazies and their media allies over a period of years.
The same is even more true of Paul Hill, the seeminlgy devoted family man who murdered Dr. John Britton and Col. James Barrett with a 12 gauge shotgun, then calmly placed the weapon on the ground and waited for police.
Hill and Roeder could commit these murders only because they saw their victims as devils in human form. One need not look very far to figure out where they would get such an idea.
Media crazies and fanatical preachers are simply lying when they throw up their bloody hands and deny any complicity in these murders.
| 781 |
Jeff In Ohio Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:14:16am |
re: #766 RogueOne
She wouldn't have been rushing if the Paul supporters hadn't drawn their weapons.
| 782 |
Ericus58 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:15:05am |
Insider Selling Volume at Highest Level Ever Tracked
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]
"The overwhelming volume of sell transactions relative to buy transactions by company insiders over the last six months in key leading sectors of the market is the worst Alan Newman, editor of the Crosscurrents newsletter, has ever seen since he began tracking the data.
...........
The largest companies in three of the most important leading sectors of the market have seen their executives classified as insiders sell more than 120 million shares of stock over the last six months. Top executives at these very same companies bought just 38,000 shares over that same time period, making for an eye-popping sell to buy ratio of 3,177 to one."
| 783 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:15:23am |
re: #770 PT Barnum
Rogue is one of the people I just say "What the hell is wrong with you that you think that the actions taken were in any way justified or blamable on the victim of the assault?" I'll bet he thinks if someone dresses provocatively and then gets raped it's their fault too.
How many times do I have to say "she didn't deserve to be stomped on"? Why is it unreasonable for people to say that others should take responsibility for their actions?
| 784 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:16:06am |
re: #779 RogueOne
So you chose to dodge yet again. Figured.
Have some backbone, dude.
You're right, it's completely unreasonable to believe that rushing a candidate for office is a bad idea
And by 'rushing', you mean 'pushing through a crowd'. To be clear. You mean something that doesn't mean 'rushing' in the least. Because by this point, your argument is so tortured you need to redefine words.
| 785 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:16:09am |
re: #774 Obdicut
He has a really weird concept of 'rights' in general. He once asserted his 'right' to commit assault, because he knew there'd be a punishment for it and accepted that.
I have the right to cross a picket line and I have the right to get my ass kicked for it. Why is that hard to understand?
| 786 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:16:51am |
re: #778 iossarian
You stole that out of mah brain!
| 787 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:16:56am |
The incident boils down as follows:
1) Valle had a reasonable expectation to exercise her 1st amendment rights to protest Paul;
2) She attempted to get close to the Paul campaign (or Paul himself) to give her message;
3) Members of Paul's campaign physically assaulted her and prevented her from doing so - criminal acts that further deprived her of her 1st Amendment rights.
4) Valle has nothing to apologize for as she was fully within her rights to protest. You don't have to agree with her speech, but you should be protecting her right to do so. After all, the 1st Amendment isn't about protecting speech and conduct you approve of, but that which you don't.
| 788 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:17:32am |
re: #785 RogueOne
I have the right to cross a picket line and I have the right to get my ass kicked for it. Why is that hard to understand?
Because that second part isn't a 'right', and it represents your complete lack of understanding of what a 'right' is.
You don't have the 'right' to get your ass kicked. You may get your ass kicked. You, in fact, as guaranteed by the laws of the US, have your right NOT to get your ass kicked.
That you think it's the inverse is just bizarre.
| 789 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:17:38am |
I'm still looking for video of this supposed 'rushing' perpetrated by Ms. Valle. In all the videos I've seen this is not shown, however there is some meme that she did, in fact, 'rush.'
| 791 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:18:32am |
re: #789 BigPapa
I'm still looking for video of this supposed 'rushing' perpetrated by Ms. Valle. In all the videos I've seen this is not shown, however there is some meme that she did, in fact, 'rush.'
The only video I've seen shows her trying to push her way through the crowd to get to Paul, that's a "rush" in my book.
| 792 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:18:39am |
re: #769 Obdicut
Huh. Weird, you dodged the questions yet again. Try one more time?
And furthermore, you are really saying that someone trying to get through a crowd to get near a candidate is 'rushing'? That is your actual definition of 'rushing'?
God dammit, Rogue's probably a Zerg player!
/
| 793 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:19:12am |
re: #771 Killgore Trout
Kentucky Stomper Wants An Apology From Woman He Assaulted (VIDEO)
Of course he does....
The TeaGOP Party types are always, always, always the victims no matter what happened.
"but it is her fault she put her/shoulder in the way of my foot Officer."
"but it is her fault because we have seen her at a few events and find women with signs who wear wigs and who have totally acted non-violent very, very threatening officer."
"but it is her fault that tonight we decided to be fake "crowd control dudes" and tonight was her time to be taken down by us so we could prove how macho we are...do you think I might get lucky with my wife tonight?"
| 794 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:19:47am |
re: #792 Varek Raith
Apparently he's a Protoss player who thinks that launching an attack with un-upgraded zealots fifteen minutes into the game counts as a rush.
| 795 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:20:02am |
re: #791 RogueOne
The only video I've seen shows her trying to push her way through the crowd to get to Paul, that's a "rush" in my book.
She presumably wouldn't have had to push if the crowd had let her through, so who is to blame?
Who gets to decide who stands at the front? (Usually, smaller people get to go at the front so they can see.)
| 796 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:20:05am |
re: #785 RogueOne
I have the right to cross a picket line and I have the right to get my ass kicked for it. Why is that hard to understand?
It's not hard to figure out that you're equating Valle trying to get a picture taken of herself next to Paul with crossing a picket line, and thereby making some minimal assertion that she somehow asked for it, or maybe not a footstomping, but... something.
| 797 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:20:06am |
re: #791 RogueOne
The only video I've seen shows her trying to push her way through the crowd to get to Paul, that's a "rush" in my book.
How do you manage to torture the definition of 'rush' to think that, though?
| 798 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:20:59am |
re: #795 iossarian
You don't have a right to get next to a candidate. She could have done her protest without trying to get into pauls personal space.
| 799 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:21:25am |
re: #768 RogueOne
Who would you rather run into, the secret service or a Kentucky state trooper?
The Secret Service. They're less likely to shoot me.
| 800 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:21:46am |
re: #794 Obdicut
Apparently he's a Protoss player who thinks that launching an attack with un-upgraded zealots fifteen minutes into the game counts as a rush.
ZINGED!
Poor Protoss...
XD
| 801 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:21:51am |
re: #791 RogueOne
The only video I've seen shows her trying to push her way through the crowd to get to Paul, that's a "rush" in my book.
Where is this video? I've watched many versions and I don't see any rush... just her getting manhandled.
| 802 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:22:52am |
re: #791 RogueOne
The only video I've seen shows her trying to push her way through the crowd to get to Paul, that's a "rush" in my book.
She just wanted to get closer to the heart.
| 803 |
RogueOne Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:23:23am |
re: #797 Obdicut
How do you manage to torture the definition of 'rush' to think that, though?
The interwebs are a beautiful thing. You must not have ever come across the word "rush" before so let me help you:
[Link: www.answers.com...]
v., rushed, rush·ing, rush·es.v.intr.
1. To move or act swiftly; hurry.
2. To make a sudden or swift attack or charge.
3. To flow or surge rapidly, often with noise: Tons of water rushed over the falls.
4. Football. To move the ball by running.v.tr.
1. To cause to move or act with unusual haste or violence.
2. To perform with great haste: rushed completion of the project.
3. To attack swiftly and suddenly: Infantry rushed the enemy after the artillery barrage.
4. To transport or carry hastily: An ambulance rushed her to the hospital.
5. To entertain or pay great attention to: They rushed him for their fraternity.
6. Football. To run at (a passer or kicker) in order to block or disrupt a play.n.
1. A sudden forward motion.
2.
1. Surging emotion: a rush of shame.
2. An anxious and eager movement to get to or from a place: a rush to the goldfields.
3. A sudden, very insistent, generalized demand: a rush for gold coins.
3. General haste or busyness: The office always operates in a rush.
4. A sudden attack; an onslaught.
5. A rapid, often noisy flow or passage. See synonyms at flow.
6. Football.
1. An attempt to move the ball by running.
2. An act of running at a passer or kicker in order to block or prevent a play.
7. Sports. A rapid advance of the puck toward the opponent's goal in ice hockey.
8. rushes The first, unedited print of a movie scene.
9.
1. A time of attention, usually one in which extensive social activity occurs.
2. A drive by a Greek society on a college campus to recruit new members: a sorority rush.
10.
1. The intensely pleasurable sensation experienced immediately after use of a stimulant or a mind-altering drug.
2. A sudden, brief exhilaration: A familiar rush overtook him each time the store announced a half-price special on expensive stereo equipment.adj.
Performed with or requiring great haste or urgency: a rush job; a rush order.
No need to torture
| 805 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:23:52am |
re: #779 RogueOne
You're right, it's completely unreasonable to believe that rushing a candidate for office is a bad idea. Nothing bad has ever come from people rushing candidates, Sirhan Sirhan was just misunderstood. Sarah Moore was actually trying to shoot someone else and Ford just got in the way. John Hinkley was actually aiming for the taxi. The secret service and the state police have no reason to be concerned with civilians rushing up next to a candidate.
Like I said, go to a mayor bloomberg rally and try to rush up next to him with a sign and see how it goes.
Except she had been seen at many of the rallys by the macho "crowd control" douchebags and she never acted insane or violent. They knew what she wanted to do...make Rand Paul look silly. They choose the debate night as the night they were going to take her out.
IF and that is a big if, they thought she was a danger to the candidate all the campagin needed to do was let the KY State Troopers know and they would have dealt with her.
| 806 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:24:35am |
I wonder how far out from Rand Paul the sacred ground extends.
| 807 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:25:37am |
re: #806 jaunte
I wonder how far out from Rand Paul the sacred ground extends.
Good point.
Just how far was she from Paul?
Sheesh, this is silly.
| 808 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:25:41am |
| 809 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:25:59am |
re: #806 jaunte
I wonder how far out from Rand Paul the sacred ground extends.
All the way to Ground Zero, of course.
///
| 810 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:26:05am |
| 811 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:26:08am |
| 812 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:26:33am |
re: #806 jaunte
I wonder how far out from Rand Paul the sacred ground extends.
Far enough away that you can't smell the Aqua Velva Buddah on him....
| 813 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:26:51am |
re: #803 RogueOne
Hah.
2. An anxious and eager movement to get to or from a place: a rush to the goldfields.
Seriously, dude? You think the abstract notion of a rush to the goldfields justifies you saying that someone trying to make their way through a crowd is rushing?
You might want to stop digging that hole. This is seriously pathetic.
You might also want to think really hard about why you don't have the 'right' to get your ass kicked, but rather, you have the 'right' to NOT get your ass-kicked, and why is it that your concept of rights is so insanely inverted.
| 814 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:27:01am |
re: #803 RogueOne
The interwebs are a beautiful thing.
No need to torture
Show me the video of her 'rushing' Rand Paul otherwise this meme is just that, more BS minimizing Profitt's behavior and saying she asked for it or was somehow to blame.
| 815 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:28:17am |
Let's be realistic here.
She's tiny.
She couldn't rush through traffic cones, let alone a crowd.
| 816 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:28:19am |
re: #813 Obdicut
You might want to stop digging that hole. This is seriously pathetic.
But there's gold in that hole...I just know it!
| 817 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:28:23am |
re: #814 BigPapa
We've already established that "she didn't deserve to get stomped".
So quite why we are now debating the definition of "rush" is beyond me.
I think it has something to do with "she didn't deserve it but actually she did, really".
| 818 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:28:55am |
re: #814 BigPapa
Show me the video of her 'rushing' Rand Paul otherwise this meme is just that, more BS minimizing Profitt's behavior and saying she asked for it or was somehow to blame.
Somebody has to take Proffitt's side...I'm just glad it isn't me.
| 819 |
Jeff In Ohio Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:30:07am |
re: #791 RogueOne
The only video I've seen shows her trying to push her way through the crowd to get to Paul, that's a "rush" in my book.
um no. She was standing at the curb, waiting for Paul's car. When it pulled up to the curb, Paul supporters, who had already identified her as a MoveOn activist, stood in front of her. She attempted to push through them to get back to the front when they attempted to grab her.
"Rand Paul's car arrived, and as soon as it did, a couple of them stepped right in front of me and so I stepped off the curb to get around them, back out to the front, and at that point they started grabbing for me and I ran all the way around the car with them in pursuit, and the point at which they see the footage is after I've run all the way around the car and am in front of the car and that is when they take me down," Valle said.
[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
| 820 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:30:18am |
Tony Perkins is just a POS:
""These young people who identify as gay or lesbian, we know from the social science that they have a higher propensity to depression or suicide because of that internal conflict," he says.
Homosexuality is "abnormal," he says, and kids know it, which leads them to despair. That's why he wants to confront gay activism in public schools. For example, his group supports the Day of Truth, when Christian high-schoolers make their case that homosexuality is a sin."
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Ugh and ugh.
| 821 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:31:00am |
re: #819 Jeff In Ohio
Actually, she attempted to walk around them, not push through them. That's why they grabbed her from behind.
| 822 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:31:31am |
Update on the new O'Keefe video that everyone is ignoring....
Go figure: Teacher in O'Keefe video reportedly says she was taken out of context
Shocka!
| 823 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:31:44am |
re: #820 webevintage
Tony Perkins is just a POS:
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Ugh and ugh.
The "Day of Truth" sounds like something you'd come across in a Taliban-controlled village.
Note: this is not a good thing.
| 824 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:33:03am |
re: #822 Killgore Trout
I'm hoping he just gets resoundingly ignored this time around.
| 825 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:33:20am |
re: #817 iossarian
So quite why we are now debating the definition of "rush" is beyond me.
Ask Rogue. I'm just trying to see evidence of this supposed 'rush,' hell, any rush at all. I've actually looked but somehow I missed it.
I thought facts matter.
Till then, it's a bullshit meme being perpetuated by Stomper Tim and his supporters. If you want to hang your hat on that shit do so at risk to your credibility.
| 826 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:33:21am |
re: #822 Killgore Trout
Update on the new O'Keefe video that everyone is ignoring...
Go figure: Teacher in O'Keefe video reportedly says she was taken out of context
Shocka!
What did she say that was taken out of context?
| 827 |
Jeff In Ohio Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:33:45am |
re: #821 darthstar
Actually, she attempted to walk around them, not push through them. That's why they grabbed her from behind.
Right, that's when they raised their guns and tried to shoot and she made a run for it. Not wanting to shoot any innocent bystanders, they grabbed her and threw her to the ground. Proffitt attempted to hold her head steady for the money shot, but his bad back made him go off balance, and he was worried he might have gum on his shoe. That's when Valle went all kung fu and took all 20 of them out.
It's on the video.
| 828 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:34:10am |
re: #820 webevintage
Ugh is putting it mildly. Screw that guy.
| 829 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:34:30am |
re: #822 Killgore Trout
Update on the new O'Keefe video that everyone is ignoring...
Go figure: Teacher in O'Keefe video reportedly says she was taken out of context
Shocka!
O'Keefe's got a new video? I'll bet it sucks. Oh, and from the article, it looks like he's still doing his stalking thing.
| 830 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:36:43am |
re: #628 NJDhockeyfan
Both of these idiots hate speeches are way over the top. Some of you seem to think Kaukab Siddique's anti-Semitic comments aren't so bad. I'm not surprised.
SOME PEOPLE SAY...
BLAH BLAH blah BLAH
BLAH
| 831 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:37:08am |
re: #820 webevintage
""These young people who identify as gay or lesbian, we know from the social science that they have a higher propensity to depression or suicide because of that internal conflict," he says.
Because of people like you Tony. I thought your kind of Christianity was about loving thy neighbor.
| 832 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:37:44am |
Hubble Ultra-Deep Field in 3D
Wherein photons rush towards us, galaxies rush away from, and all sorts of other speedy things happen.
| 833 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:38:25am |
re: #826 NJDhockeyfan
What did she say that was taken out of context?
You're jumping to the defense of James O'Keefe?
| 834 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:39:11am |
re: #824 Obdicut
I'm hoping he just gets resoundingly ignored this time around.
Drudge linked to it for a while yesterday but nobody else seemed interested.
| 835 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:39:20am |
re: #831 BigPapa
Because of people like you Tony. I thought your kind of Christianity was about loving thy neighbor.
Only if they're white, straight, male, and Republican. If you're not, you're doomed.
| 836 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:39:27am |
re: #833 RadicalModerate
You're jumping to the defense of James O'Keefe?
It's NJD...you gotta give a little latitude here. He'll understand what he meant in a few hours.
| 837 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:40:24am |
re: #833 RadicalModerate
You're jumping to the defense of James O'Keefe?
No, I don't know what she said. What did she say?
| 838 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:43:36am |
re: #837 NJDhockeyfan
No, I don't know what she said. What did she say?
From the very first line of the linked story:
On Monday, discredited right-wing propagandist James O'Keefe released his newest video, targeting the New Jersey Education Association based on footage and audio his team recorded at a leadership conference it held this year. The centerpiece of the video was snippets of audio of Passaic special education teacher Alissa Ploshnick, which appeared to show her cheering on how hard it is to fire a tenured teacher, even in extreme circumstances.
| 839 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:43:52am |
re: #835 Lidane
Only if they're white, straight, male, and Republican. If you're not, you're
doomeda sinner.
Fixted itz.
| 840 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:44:46am |
| 841 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46:46am |
| 842 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:51:19am |
| 843 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:52:31am |
re: #841 iossarian
Forget that, what does Alex Jones say? EH?
Speaking of Alex Jones: Infowars is now running banner ads for Rand Paul.
| 844 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:52:32am |
From the NJ article on O'Keefe:
In the second video, O’Keefe records a call placed to Lawrence E. Everett, assistant superintendent of the Passaic City Schools, from an actor posing as a concerned parent who is concerned that a teacher spoke to his child using derogatory language. Everett responds, saying the incident is "totally unacceptable," but that "I’m not going to say that the teacher would be fired immediately, sir, that’s not usually how it works."
A third video released on the Project Veritas website today included audio of a voice identified as NJEA Associate Director Wayne Dibofsky alleging voter fraud during the 1997 Jersey City mayoral election.
One of the comments in the O'Keefe story shows how he only tells part of a story:
"If you sit through all three videos, you'd understand that the oft quoted remarks come from one or two voices, unidentified.
In the second video, the Superintendent is not responding to a specific incident or allegation, only fielding a call from an unidentified individual who alleges that his son was called the N word. The Superintendent is
then asked if the teacher would be fired, and the Supt rightly answers that Due Process would be followed. But the alleged parent never comes in to name the student or teacher or himself, so it is simply a prank call, just like from Howard Stern.
In the third video, the union official supposedly is reporting on an incident in 1997, when two voting machines were delivered to a union office-- and those responsible for their delivery were informed that this was not a voting site. After that, it is simply innuendo about who might have done what."
and yeah, getting someone drunk and then asking them questions to make them look corrupt/stupid/whatever is a bullshit move since people say things while drunk ("no really, it is 10 inches long baby" or "of course I'll respect you in the morning") hat are not true or boasting or...whatever, it is just a shitty thing to do.
And what a surprise that teachers might not like Christie.
| 845 |
lawhawk Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:54:13am |
re: #838 RadicalModerate
It's not a particularly radical thing for her to say. Anyone who follows news of UFT dealings in NYC knows how difficult it is to fire teachers who engage in inappropriate acts, let alone are poor teachers. All the area papers have multiple articles on reports about how a teacher engaged in inappropriate conduct - like sexual conduct with students - and could not be fired without months and months of hearings. Rubber room practices are starting to change in NYC, but the practice enabled teachers who were kicked out of classrooms to continue taking paychecks while waiting for disciplinary hearings that dragged out for months (and years in some extreme cases). They've finally started reducing the time in which it takes to resolve those cases, but the difficulty in firing bad teachers is an ongoing one.
I just don't think that O'Keefe's story is particularly noteworthy - not in what he was hoping to catch on video or that he was taking snippets or taking items out of context.
The NJEA has plenty of animosity towards Gov. Christie, so that's not surprising either. Christie has hit at the unions hard, calling for voters to hold the line on spending (directly affecting local property taxes that are largely used to fund education budgets) - and voters did respond this past year by rejecting quite a few of those budgets. The NJEA also complained that their teachers weren't getting raises this year, ignoring that many people around the state were losing jobs or that the private sector wasn't handing out raises either.
| 846 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:54:34am |
re: #840 NJDhockeyfan
OK, so what did she say?
Wollmer said an undercover videographer bought her a drink, and talked about going out to dinner, to get her to open up. He then took her comments out of context, Wollmer said, to make it sound as if she was joking about how hard it is to get a tenured teacher fired.
The video included a clip of her saying "once you get that third year, it’s like ‘Schwing!’"
Gasp...shock...grasp pearls...
| 847 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:54:42am |
re: #842 NJDhockeyfan
My point is, you seem awfully interested in finding out what someone is made to appear to have said in a video by the totally discredited James O'Keefe.
Why bother? It's not exactly a useful source of information.
| 848 |
Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:57:46am |
re: #843 Killgore Trout
Speaking of Alex Jones: Infowars is now running banner ads for Rand Paul.
The Illuminati hasn't brought him into its fold yet?
| 849 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:58:45am |
re: #848 Winny Spencer
The Illuminati hasn't brought him into its fold yet?
I don't think the reverse vampires are done with him yet.
| 850 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:59:22am |
Here's the dirty secret about teachers and unions. If you want to hire qualified people to teach your kids, you have to pay them in line with their qualifications.
You can do that in various ways. One way would be to pay them a similar amount that they could pull down in the private sector.
Another way is to pay them less up front, but to offer them job security as part of the package.
Over time, people have tended to pick the latter option, in large part because it costs a lot less up front. Can't be messing with TAXPAYER MONEY after all.
Something to bear in mind when listening to complaints about bad teachers that can't be fired.
| 851 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:59:43am |
re: #845 lawhawk
It's really odd that you would respond to a smear attempt by O'Keefe by talking at length about your conception of the misdeeds of those he was attempting to smear.
| 852 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:00:19am |
| 853 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:00:54am |
re: #847 iossarian
My point is, you seem awfully interested in finding out what someone is made to appear to have said in a video by the totally discredited James O'Keefe.
Why bother? It's not exactly a useful source of information.
She said she was taken out of context, I asked what she said that was taken out of context. Whats the big deal about that?
| 854 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:01:09am |
re: #852 PT Barnum
Can we build a mosque next to him?
Only if it doesn't have anything to do with Islam.
/Geller & Spencer
| 855 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:01:24am |
re: #844 webevintage
Dangit, I was hoping that he would have picked up the hint to click on the link and read the article for himself.
| 856 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:01:28am |
And yes, while tenure sounds crappy, it is nothing more then due process when used properly.
Are there places where it allows crappy teachers to keep teaching? Sure...we all remember bad teachers in school who never seemed to go away.
BUT it also protects an employee from being fired on the word of a pissed off kid or a parent who thinks a teacher is "too hard" or a gay teacher in an area where the local TeaGOP Party Churches might be powerful.
Nor do i think that still being paid while suspended is a bad thing...what an idea protecting the worker.
(but I will concede that the weird practice in some big cities of not having a stream lined process for due process needs to be dealt with.)
| 857 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:01:35am |
re: #850 iossarian
I updinged you, but private teachers tend to get paid less than public school teachers. This may seem counterintuitive at first, but it gets obvious really quick when you think about it:
Private schools get to pick who gets in them. They don't have to accept those students they don't want to.
Public school teachers have to deal with anyone and everyone. They have to deal with the products of extreme parental neglect, with students who have been taught to reject their authority, to rebel against the system-- not to mention the students who are just outright violent.
Public school teachers are not the problem. The massive growth in administrators on public schools is a huge problem.
| 858 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:02:38am |
The wingnuts are really wound up with conspiracies about stolen elections. If they somehow end up not taking the House they are really going to go ballistic.
| 859 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:02:39am |
re: #856 webevintage
Or being fired because someone in the administration disagrees with them, or because they're agitating for better conditions for the students, or many of the other reasons that people have for trying to fire good teachers.
| 860 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:02:54am |
re: #853 NJDhockeyfan
She said she was taken out of context, I asked what she said that was taken out of context. Whats the big deal about that?
Apparently her full quote was: "Get off me you disgusting pervert. And why do you have all these sex toys on your yacht, anyway? Oh and by the way, the union has negotiated for great job security over the years, offsetting the lower level of pay than these qualified teachers would command in the private sector."
| 861 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:03:06am |
re: #858 Killgore Trout
About a 20% chance of complete chaos, then.
| 862 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:03:18am |
re: #855 RadicalModerate
Dangit, I was hoping that he would have picked up the hint to click on the link and read the article for himself.
I know, but sometimes it is easier to just do the job yourself and get it over with.
| 863 |
Big Steve Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:04:31am |
terrific article on macro-eveolution IN OUR LIFETIME (which creationists deny can happen) Macro-evolution in our lifetime
| 864 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:04:49am |
re: #857 Obdicut
Oh, and private schools generally don't have tenured positions, and have much higher turnover-- they have a lot more freedom in firing teachers, so they're able to keep wages lower both with the threat of dismissal and simply letting people go when they've gotten a lot of seniority and are therefore making a lot more than a fresh-out-of-college teacher would.
| 865 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:05:11am |
re: #858 Killgore Trout
The wingnuts are really wound up with conspiracies about stolen elections. If they somehow end up not taking the House they are really going to go ballistic.
ACORN!
OLIGARHY!
TRANZI PROGS!
///
| 866 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:06:06am |
re: #857 Obdicut
Well, I wasn't meaning to compare public school pay to private school pay, I meant the private sector at large. You're right - private school teaching is a desirable job for other reasons (and note that private schools tend to protect their teachers as well - there are many instances of student abuse that go unpunished in that system).
The growth in administration is a problem in my sector as well. In my opinion it's mostly caused by the fact that voters demand ever more justification for how the money gets spent. Every year we have to fill in more reports, which means, of course, more report-fillers.
It's a difficult problem to "solve" (there probably isn't an optimal solution).
| 867 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:06:46am |
re: #860 iossarian
Oh and by the way, the union has negotiated for great job security over the years, offsetting the lower level of pay than these qualified teachers would command in the private sector."
I read a couple of articles by Ezra Klein about this and state pensions:
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
| 868 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:07:44am |
re: #865 Lidane
ACORN!
OLIGARHY!
TRANZI PROGS!///
INNER CITY DEMOCRATS VOTING EARLY IN STATES THAT HAVE EARLY VOTING!!!!!!!
/
| 869 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:07:46am |
re: #865 Lidane
ACORN!
OLIGARHY!
TRANZI PROGS!///
If they lose and do lose their shit, I think it could be the beginning of the Wingularity (Balloon-Juice's term for when wingnuttery can get no worse)
BTW, if you are inclined to diss Balloon Juice, don't, it's how I found my way here.
| 870 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:08:39am |
re: #869 PT Barnum
If they lose and do lose their shit, I think it could be the beginning of the Wingularity (Balloon-Juice's term for when wingnuttery can get no worse)
BTW, if you are inclined to diss Balloon Juice, don't, it's how I found my way here.
Of course for some, the fact that BJ led me here might be a good reason to diss them.. :)
| 871 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:08:52am |
re: #866 iossarian
It's a highly complex systems problem that isn't open to simple solutions, like 'lower pay for teachers' or 'make it easier to fire teachers'.
A huge, huge part of the problem is the anti-science attitude that we have in this country, and a huge, huge reason for that is the GOP and right-wing media's relentless advocacy against science and against scientists.
That problem makes it very difficult to address the educational system.
| 872 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:09:32am |
| 873 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:10:10am |
re: #872 Killgore Trout
‘Anchor Baby’ Michele Malkin Wants To Police Latinos While They Vote
Acooorn!
Isn't that the warcry of the Tea Party super hero, The Prick?
| 874 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:13:20am |
re: #864 Obdicut
Oh, and private schools generally don't have tenured positions, and have much higher turnover-- they have a lot more freedom in firing teachers, so they're able to keep wages lower both with the threat of dismissal and simply letting people go when they've gotten a lot of seniority and are therefore making a lot more than a fresh-out-of-college teacher would.
There are some places like NY where the union has protected bad teachers who the schools want to be fired.
| 875 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:14:06am |
re: #874 NJDhockeyfan
There are some places like NY where the union has protected bad teachers who the schools want to be fired.
... and?
| 876 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:14:15am |
re: #874 NJDhockeyfan
There are some places like NY where the union has protected bad teachers who the schools want to be fired.
There are all sorts of places where people with no discernable talents and skills are allowed to stay on regardless of the potential harm they can do. Teachers are no different.
| 877 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:15:37am |
re: #872 Killgore Trout
‘Anchor Baby’ Michele Malkin Wants To Police Latinos While They Vote
Acooorn!
Righwing voter suppression/intimidation. They do it SO well.
/dripping
| 878 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:17:06am |
If I were to have another kid, I would name him/her Tranzi Prog. Has a certain ring to it, no?
| 879 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:17:37am |
re: #878 imp_62
If I were to have another kid, I would name him/her Tranzi Prog. Has a certain ring to it, no?
How about Right Wing Dumbshit?
| 880 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:18:07am |
| 881 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:21:31am |
re: #879 PT Barnum
How about Right Wing Dumbshit?
Reminds me of the bad dad who named his twin sons "Winner" and "Loser" to see whether they would have different life experiences.
Talk about cutting-edge social science!
| 882 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:21:52am |
speaking of rightwing terrorism...
| 883 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:23:35am |
re: #869 PT Barnum
John Cole is awesome and was my blog crush in the 2008 election. He made all that insanity really funny, especially when he got into a pissing match with a liberal blogger just after the election.
Hell, I even blogged about it at the time:
[Link: www.journalfen.net...]
| 884 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:23:59am |
re: #882 dreggas
speaking of rightwing terrorism...
I wonder if the calls went like this:
"*threat threat threat gonna kill you threat threat*...and I would like to pledge $100 and I want the 'Wait Wait Don't Tell Me' mug, please"
| 885 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:24:07am |
re: #881 iossarian
Reminds me of the bad dad who named his twin sons "Winner" and "Loser" to see whether they would have different life experiences.
Talk about cutting-edge social science!
That's okay..Juan williams has a twin brother named Amal, who's a Muslim. Which is okay because if you've seen Juan, you've seen Amal.
| 886 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:25:20am |
re: #885 PT Barnum
That's okay..Juan williams has a twin brother named Amal, who's a Muslim. Which is okay because if you've seen Juan, you've seen Amal.
coffee => screen
| 887 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:25:29am |
re: #884 imp_62
I wonder if the calls went like this:
"*threat threat threat gonna kill you threat threat*...and I would like to pledge $100 and I want the 'Wait Wait Don't Tell Me' mug, please"
I regret that I have but one upding to give for that. Although I have been tempted to threaten them with all sorts of things during pledge week. "QUIT BEGGING AND GET TO THE NEWS OR I'M GONNA WRAP MY TOTEBAG AROUND YOUR SKINNY LITTLE NECK!"
And yes, I do contribute to my local station.
| 888 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:27:01am |
| 889 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:27:51am |
re: #882 dreggas
speaking of rightwing terrorism...
No doubt from people who have never listened to any NPR programming, and had never heard of Juan Williams before last week.
| 890 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:28:00am |
re: #883 Lidane
John Cole is awesome and was my blog crush in the 2008 election. He made all that insanity really funny, especially when he got into a pissing match with a liberal blogger just after the election.
Hell, I even blogged about it at the time:
[Link: www.journalfen.net...]
I never posted there, as I dislike having to do all the self identifying every time I want to say something, but I really thought John, being an ex wingnut had a good insight into that mentality.
| 891 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:28:28am |
It is a gorgeous autumn day in Western NY and impossible to be angry at anything. I have to get outside, go to the gym, bask in the glory that the Deity has blessed us with. And get a few more billable hours in.
| 892 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:28:35am |
re: #889 negativ
No doubt from people who have never listened to any NPR programming, and had never heard of Juan Williams before last week.
"You fired Juan Williams, so I'm gonna stop watchin' ya'all!"
Wait....
| 893 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:28:59am |
re: #891 imp_62
It is a gorgeous autumn day in Western NY and impossible to be angry at anything. I have to get outside, go to the gym, bask in the glory that the Deity has blessed us with. And get a few more billable hours in.
You an attorney or an IT Consultant?
| 894 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:31:00am |
re: #893 PT Barnum
You an attorney or an IT Consultant?
Hah: semi-busted... I am a consultant with clients in the IT and legal fields :)
| 895 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:31:58am |
re: #893 PT Barnum
You an attorney or an IT Consultant?
Some kind of weirdo for being happy so early.
I mean, damn!
It's 12:31pm!
/
:)
| 896 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:32:07am |
re: #891 imp_62
Lawyer goes to heaven... tells St. Peter... "This has to be a mistake! I am only 41 years old." St. Peter looks at the book, says, "No, you're 83." Looks at the book again... "Oh", says St. Pete... "We counted billable hours."
| 897 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:33:48am |
Regarding my Celtics from last night.
:)
| 899 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:35:14am |
re: #896 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I read a story where a judge had cited a lawyer for billing for 40 hours of work. For one man, working one day.
| 900 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:35:39am |
re: #899 Obdicut
I read a story where a judge had cited a lawyer for billing for 40 hours of work. For one man, working one day.
Lol.
Eeevil.
| 901 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:36:11am |
re: #896 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Lawyer goes to heaven... tells St. Peter... "This has to be a mistake! I am only 41 years old." St. Peter looks at the book, says, "No, you're 83." Looks at the book again... "Oh", says St. Pete... "We counted billable hours."
Lawyer and the Pope go to heaven at the same time. Lawyer is driven to his corner of heaven in a chariot drawn by angels, accompanied by a pillar of Heavenly fire. The Pope is given a map with directions. Pope protests, pointing out that, after all, he was Pope and should have the same or better treatment. St. Peter: Are you kidding? We get a new Pope up here every couple of yeaars. but that guy is the first lawyer we've seen for a long time.
| 902 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:36:13am |
re: #894 imp_62
Hah: semi-busted... I am a consultant with clients in the IT and legal fields :)
I'm an IT guy...Mostly write small single user or small user group databases, but it pays the bills for now. Once I get to the point that I don't owe anything to anyone (in the next 5 years) I'm going to find a job that pays the bills and spend more time working on some of my occupational hobbies.
| 903 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:36:51am |
re: #789 BigPapa
I'm still looking for video of this supposed 'rushing' perpetrated by Ms. Valle. In all the videos I've seen this is not shown, however there is some meme that she did, in fact, 'rush.'
If they don't have a good understanding of what constitutes a "rush" someone should bring some zerglings to their next rally so that they can gain some firsthand experience...
/// ;)
| 904 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:37:12am |
I heard someone say that all lawyers are assholes and it offended me, not because I'm a lawyer, but because I'm an asshole.
| 905 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:38:23am |
re: #902 PT Barnum
I'm an IT guy...Mostly write small single user or small user group databases, but it pays the bills for now. Once I get to the point that I don't owe anything to anyone (in the next 5 years) I'm going to find a job that pays the bills and spend more time working on some of my occupational hobbies.
Get involved with government projects. They pay consultants well, and have a growing need for data management product - especially financial regulatory agencies.
| 906 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:39:25am |
re: #899 Obdicut
I'll see if I can get this close to right...
Dear (Client):
I saw you walking down the street the other day and went over to discuss your case. I called your name, but you didn't stop. I chased you down for several minutes. Turned out, it wasn't you.
Enclosed, please find my bill.
Sincerely...
| 907 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:39:37am |
re: #902 PT Barnum
I'm an IT guy...Mostly write small single user or small user group databases, but it pays the bills for now. Once I get to the point that I don't owe anything to anyone (in the next 5 years) I'm going to find a job that pays the bills and spend more time working on some of my occupational hobbies.
Just a question.
Can you make a targeting program for an orbital ion cannon?
Needs superb resolution capabilities.
| 908 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:40:13am |
re: #882 dreggas
speaking of rightwing terrorism...
The gal in charge of NPR got phone calls threatening her kids....
| 909 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:40:56am |
re: #907 Varek Raith
Just a question.
Can you make a targeting program for an orbital ion cannon?
Needs superb resolution capabilities.
No, but I can write a database to make your targets easier to keep track of.
| 910 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:41:15am |
re: #906 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'll see if I can get this close to right...
Dear (Client):
I saw you walking down the street the other day and went over to discuss your case. I called your name, but you didn't stop. I chased you down for several minutes. Turned out, it wasn't you.
Enclosed, please find my bill.
Sincerely...
ANSWER
The checks in the mail!
| 911 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:41:15am |
re: #908 webevintage
The gal in charge of NPR got phone calls threatening her kids...
What right wing terrorism?
///
| 912 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:42:38am |
FREE SPEECH!
Unless you're a Democrat trying to attend a public meet'n'greet with a Republican politician.
[Link: www2.timesdispatch.com...]
| 913 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:42:52am |
re: #908 webevintage
The gal in charge of NPR got phone calls threatening her kids...
Misplaced liberal anger. No sense eating your own when the real problems are so obviously elsewhere. If people are so dependent on Juan's commentary, they can just change channels to FOX. The fact that he was able to make this seamless transition says a lot about his real priorities in life, anyway - his wallet.
| 914 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:44:10am |
re: #883 Lidane
John Cole is awesome and was my blog crush in the 2008 election. He made all that insanity really funny, especially when he got into a pissing match with a liberal blogger just after the election.
Hell, I even blogged about it at the time:
[Link: www.journalfen.net...]
I read it if for no other reason the the way they take on the village pundits and others like Megan McCardle, Sullivan, Glenzilla and Firebaggers. It is just a damn funny place. Plus lots of pet pictures.
| 915 |
iossarian Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:44:13am |
re: #912 iossarian
I love how the Cantor folks are all "they were clearly trying to disrupt the meeting."
Which is, like, completely different to all those teabaggers screaming at the healthcare townhall meetings. That was "righteous anger".
Fuckers.
| 916 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:44:40am |
re: #912 iossarian
Meh. In that case, they were asked by the owner of the business to leave. The candidate didn't rent out the place. When asked to leave by the owner, they should have.
| 917 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:46:04am |
re: #914 webevintage
I read it if for no other reason the the way they take on the village pundits and others like Megan McCardle, Sullivan, Glenzilla and Firebaggers. It is just a damn funny place. Plus lots of pet pictures.
Oh, and the fucks at Reason magazine get all the disdain they deserve there.
| 918 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:47:11am |
re: #915 iossarian
I love how the Cantor folks are all "they were clearly trying to disrupt the meeting."
Which is, like, completely different to all those teabaggers screaming at the healthcare townhall meetings. That was "righteous anger".
Fuckers.
We can't have you presenting opposing points of view supported by facts and logic, unless you bring enough for everybody.
| 919 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:48:07am |
re: #896 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Guy in a balloon gets lost over the ocean. Finally he floats low over an island where a man is tanning. "Where am I" asks the lost balloon pilot. "In a balloon", the sunbather says. "You must be a consultant" says the pilot. "How did you know?" says sunbather. "Your information came quickly and was exactly as useless as it was accurate."
| 920 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:48:49am |
The Rolling Stones are planning another tour in 2011. In 1982, I went to their first "farewell" tour - Tattoo You. I only went because I felt I should see the Stones live; something to tell people about later in life - I don't even like the Rolling Stones. 30 years later, those geriatric substance abusers are still touring. I want my money back.
| 921 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:49:36am |
re: #919 Rightwingconspirator
Guy in a balloon gets lost over the ocean. Finally he floats low over an island where a man is tanning. "Where am I" asks the lost balloon pilot. "In a balloon", the sunbather says. "You must be a consultant" says the pilot. "How did you know?" says sunbather. "Your information came quickly and was exactly as useless as it was accurate."
A consultant, by definition, is someone who steals your watch to tell you what time it is.
| 922 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:50:13am |
re: #920 imp_62
The Rolling Stones are planning another tour in 2011. In 1982, I went to their first "farewell" tour - Tattoo You. I only went because I felt I should see the Stones live; something to tell people about later in life - I don't even like the Rolling Stones. 30 years later, those geriatric substance abusers are still touring. I want my money back.
Was playing D & D Online last night. The narrators voice said "The halls of the catacombs are stalked by the reeking corpses of the undead." I said to my group "What's Keith Richards doing here?"
| 923 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:51:30am |
Rand Paul Thug wants an apology, only stepped on victim because he has a bad back
"I don't think it's that big of a deal," Profitt said of the incident in an interview with CBS affiliate WKYT. "I would like for her to apologize to me to be honest with you."
Profitt, a Rand Paul supporter who used to serve as a campaign coordinator for the Kentucky Senate hopeful's campaign, was caught on video on Monday stepping on Valle's head after she had been wrestled to the ground. Valle had been trying to offer a satiric award to the candidate.
Profitt later said he was sorry "that it came to that," but he argued to WKYT that Valle was not an innocent bystander."She's a professional at what she does," Profitt said. "I think when all the facts come out, I think people will see that she was the one that initiated the whole thing."
Profitt also said that chronic back pain contributed to his actions: "I put my foot on her, and I did push her down at the very end, and I told her to stay down. I actually put my foot on her to -- I couldn't bend over because I have issues with my back," Profitt said.
| 924 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:51:40am |
re: #921 imp_62
A consultant, by definition, is someone who steals your watch to tell you what time it is.
Guy goes into a cannibal butcher store and sees a sign.
Engineer Brains $20/lb
Doctor Brains $15/lb
Consultant Brains $2000/lb
He says "How come the consultant brains are so much?"
The cannibal says "You got any idea how many consultants it takes to get a pound of brains?"
| 925 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:52:01am |
re: #907 Varek Raith
Just a question.
Can you make a targeting program for an orbital ion cannon?
Needs superb resolution capabilities.
I'd prefer to spend the time and resources on an accidentally self-aware military command & control A.I. Once it's done, it can do its own R&D.
| 926 |
Kronocide Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:52:41am |
re: #921 imp_62
A consultant, by definition, is someone who steals your watch to tell you what time it is.
And charges for it!
(coming from an aspiring consultant)
| 927 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:53:13am |
re: #920 imp_62
The Rolling Stones are planning another tour in 2011. In 1982, I went to their first "farewell" tour - Tattoo You. I only went because I felt I should see the Stones live; something to tell people about later in life - I don't even like the Rolling Stones. 30 years later, those geriatric substance abusers are still touring. I want my money back.
Rolling Stones 2011 Tour
NAME: Bed Pans Across America!
Discount for Early Bird Special shows
There will be a drawing at each show. Lucky winner gets a free autographed hip replacement!
| 928 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:53:53am |
re: #923 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rand Paul Thug wants an apology, only stepped on victim because he has a bad back
I was hoping against hope the link would be to the Onion. Oh, well.
I like his logic, as it by extention implies that professional political organizers need to have their necks stomped on. /
| 929 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:54:20am |
re: #927 sattv4u2
Rolling Stones 2011 Tour
NAME: Bed Pans Across America!
Discount for Early Bird Special shows
There will be a drawing at each show. Lucky winner gets a free autographed hip replacement!
Bingo after the show.
| 930 |
joest73 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:55:10am |
re: #920 imp_62
The Rolling Stones are planning another tour in 2011. In 1982, I went to their first "farewell" tour - Tattoo You. I only went because I felt I should see the Stones live; something to tell people about later in life - I don't even like the Rolling Stones. 30 years later, those geriatric substance abusers are still touring. I want my money back.
Can't blame them though. Same goes for KISS, The WHO, and many other aging bands that are playing past the "farewell" tour.
I am waiting for the "farewell" Van Halen Tour with Sammy Hagar and DLR. I'll keep waiting for that one though.
| 931 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:56:21am |
OK, this shit needs to end:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
Do we really to use this much force to keep dissenters out of their elected representative's "meet and greets"?
(and yes, it is wrong no matter who does it)
| 932 |
joest73 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:59:35am |
re: #923 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rand Paul Thug wants an apology, only stepped on victim because he has a bad back
Premeditated or not, you do step into the lady with your feet. When you are caught in the act, you would help yourself by just shutting up.
| 933 |
shutdown Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:00:12am |
More fascistoid double-talk. Against the backdrop of his opponent's supporter being thrown to the ground by cops and arrested, Cantor accuses his opponent of "thuggishness".
| 934 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:04:34am |
re: #931 webevintage
OK, this shit needs to end:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]Do we really to use this much force to keep dissenters out of their elected representative's "meet and greets"?
(and yes, it is wrong no matter who does it)
OR ,,, as Obdicut stated , when the owner of an establishment asks you to leave ,, you could, well ,, LEAVE!
| 935 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:06:03am |
re: #934 sattv4u2
OR ,,, as Obdicut stated , when the owner of an establishment asks you to leave ,, you could, well ,, LEAVE!
yes...but what I am saying is why use so much force?
| 936 |
Gus Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:07:40am |
re: #935 webevintage
yes...but what I am saying is why use so much force?
Probably because the three cops all had "bad backs".
//
| 937 |
Gus Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:09:04am |
Kentucky GOPer On Gender Discrimination: I'll Believe In It When I See It
I look at women's issues like any other issue. We have equal rights in this country, we have fought -- women have fought very hard for those equal rights. Uh, it's up to them. I mean my wife is a working woman, she works very, very hard and she's been very successful. I've not seen any barriers in her career and I don't believe that exists. - Todd Lally
| 938 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:09:53am |
re: #935 webevintage
yes...but what I am saying is why use so much force?
You'll have to get that answer from a police officer
| 939 |
Slap Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:22:22am |
| 940 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:28:05am |
re: #894 imp_62
Hah: semi-busted... I am a consultant with clients in the IT and legal fields :)
Nerds with lawyers are about as dangerous as the Mac Nac Feegle figuring out they could use lawyers too...
| 941 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:32:55am |
re: #922 PT Barnum
Was playing D & D Online last night. The narrators voice said "The halls of the catacombs are stalked by the reeking corpses of the undead." I said to my group "What's Keith Richards doing here?"
Keith is predicted to be one of the surviving objects of the Apocalypse. The other two being cockroaches and the smell of cat pee...
;)
| 942 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:34:36am |
re: #925 negativ
I'd prefer to spend the time and resources on an accidentally self-aware military command & control A.I. Once it's done, it can do its own R&D.
Your issue might be then whether it thinks it's a private, NCO, company level officer, or general officer. Depending on that its priorities will probably vary widely towards what it R&Ds towards.
/
| 943 |
b_sharp Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:40:07am |
re: #940 oaktree
Nerds with lawyers are about as dangerous as the Mac Nac Feegle figuring out they could use lawyers too...
One upding and ten geek points for admitting to reading Pratchett's Tiffany series.
| 944 |
webevintage Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:33:39am |
re: #937 Gus 802
Kentucky GOPer On Gender Discrimination: I'll Believe In It When I See It
So if it does not happen to him or his family it does not exist....
| 945 |
palomino Wed, Oct 27, 2010 2:47:46pm |
re: #590 RogueOne
There have been a couple cities that have outlawed/tried to outlaw happy meals because they believe it leads to childhood obesity.
That's why so many liberals are in favor of legalizing marijuana. 1. It gives them something else to tax and 2. It allows them to outlaw it for the "right" reason, it's bad for your health.
The price of legal pot would likely decrease so much as to more than offset any tax. And you're very confused about who wants to outlaw it--that would be the right. We on the left love dope.
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They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
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Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
