New Pre-Stomping Video: Does It Change Things?

Wingnuts • Views: 6,069

A video from another angle has been released from the Rand Paul rally in Kentucky, showing moveon.org activist Lauren Valle trying to approach Paul several times. Here it is:

Youtube Video

Does this change the perception of the incident? In one way, it does; it makes it understandable that people tried to restrain her. It could possibly even justify wrestling her to the ground; I don’t think so myself, but I see how the point could be argued.

But nothing justifies the head-stomping; Valle was curled up in a fetal position and wasn’t going anywhere, and Rand Paul was long gone. At that point it became an assault.

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537 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:16:10pm

"She was trying to provoke a reaction!"

Then congratulation numb senate candidate was stupid enough to fall for something Admiral Akbar would have seen coming a mile away.

2 darthstar  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:16:21pm

Yes, it does change things. It shows that Rand Paul's actual security was able to get her away from the car, and didn't think she was a threat as they returned to their posts and left her to walk around the other side of the vehicle, where the head-stomping occurred.

3 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:19:10pm

It doesn't justify taking her to the ground, at all. It explains it, and it's understandable, but it's not a justified action.

If we're going to call her a 'potential threat', then everyone in the crowd is a potential threat. She was trying to pull a political stunt. She was a small woman. It would have been entirely easy enough to keep her away from Paul without restraining her at all-- and restraining people is actually damn dangerous if you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

I do not think that it is in any way illegal to attempt to hand Paul anything. I don't think it should be illegal.

I do think that everyone is jumpy as hell during this political season because the crazies have been so stoked up, but I don't think that means we need to hammer down every goofy political protester to the ground.

And the stomping is still a contemptible act of a contemptible man.

4 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:19:26pm

Still no justification for the foot on head.

5 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:19:57pm

The incident with the stomping happened after this. Whatever you think of her form of protest, she is a small 100 lb woman and unlicensed political activists for the other side, do not get to chase her down, manhandle and stomp her.

The idea of blame the victim here is repulsive.

6 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:20:04pm

This somewhat justifies the restraint, but the head-stomping OF A GIRL should have consequences. Make him wear a "Hillary for President" sign.

7 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:20:19pm

re: #2 darthstar

Yes, it does change things. It shows that Rand Paul's actual security was able to get her away from the car, and didn't think she was a threat as they returned to their posts and left her to walk around the other side of the vehicle, where the head-stomping occurred.

They left her to the maddened crowd of Paulians. She's lucky she wasn't more seriously injured. Otherwise they probably should have just let her walk away. Unless of course we expect a police state response for these sorts of things every time they occur.

8 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:21:54pm

re: #6 rwmofo

This somewhat justifies the restraint, but the head-stomping OF A GIRL should have consequences. Make him wear a "Hillary for President" sign.

Send the f***er to jail.

9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:22:54pm

no justification whatsoever, the actual security detail moved her away from the van and back into the crowd where she was mobbed by others and assaulted.

on a side note the chants of "Rand Paul" sound eerily similar to "Braaaaiiiiinnnnssss"

10 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:22:55pm

Again, the regular security stopped her stunt.

The incident with the stomping happened after. She was no longer a threat or even a conceivable threat. She is a small 100 lb woman and unlicensed political activists for the other side, do not get to chase her down, manhandle and stomp her.

The idea of blame the victim here is repulsive.

11 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:23:05pm

Bullshit. This whole election fever is bullshit and u g l y.

12 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:23:55pm
Does this change the perception of the incident? In one way, it does; it makes it understandable that people tried to restrain her. It could possibly even justify wrestling her to the ground, since she did try to get next to Paul more than once

If she was a security threat, sure. But they all knew her and why she was there.

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:24:02pm

While we are at it, the whole chanting of Rand Paul was one of the creepiest things I've heard in ages. Talk about zombie movies and images of creepy Lovecraftian cults....

14 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:24:57pm

This is Rand Paul we're talking about. He's just the Republican Senatorial candidate for the state of Kentucky. He's not the goldarn POTUS requiring and expected to have Secret Service like protection. If people keep raising this "threat" issue to even higher levels the next thing you know you'll have people saying that she should have been shot.

15 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:25:04pm

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

See part of my post above LOL.

16 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:25:24pm

If they had stopped at wrestling her to the ground, we probably wouldn't be talking about this.

17 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:25:36pm

re: #14 Gus 802

some on the wingnut blogs have said she should have been.

18 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:25:56pm

re: #3 Obdicut

If we're going to call her a 'potential threat', then everyone in the crowd is a potential threat.


Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul. If she had stood in the area where Paul got out of his car. Stood there calmly like everybody else she could have showed him her sign as he walked past shaking people's hands.
My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.
She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

19 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:26:06pm

re: #17 Dreggas

some on the wingnut blogs have said she should have been.

I was just thinking that might be the case. Figures.

20 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:26:27pm

re: #16 Charles

I disagree, she was wrestled to the ground, not by security or even authorities. She was wrestled to the ground by a mob of angry paul supporters. It was still assault.

21 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:27:04pm

re: #9 Dreggas

no justification whatsoever, the actual security detail moved her away from the van and back into the crowd where she was mobbed by others and assaulted.

on a side note the chants of "Rand Paul" sound eerily similar to "Braaaiiinnnsss"

22 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:27:06pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul. If she had stood in the area where Paul got out of his car. Stood there calmly like everybody else she could have showed him her sign as he walked past shaking people's hands.
My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.
She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

Yes. The video shows that the President was clearly in danger.

/

23 insanity police  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:27:35pm

I agree with Charles' take on this.

24 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:27:37pm

Video "evidence" shows Paul's wannabe bodyguards totally unnecessary

What it tells us is that the professional-looking security folks had dealt with whatever threat there might have been quickly and with a minimum of violence. Not only that, but she and her sign are clearly not considered enough of a threat to even keep track of for the next twenty seconds. And when she pops up again on the other side, she's blocked again, then tackled, and Paul proceeds indoors undisturbed. And once inside? The security wannabees crush and stomp on her, while professional security and police have long since taken care of the job that actually needed to be done.

Couldn't agree more.

25 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:27:45pm

re: #10 LudwigVanQuixote

Again, the regular security stopped her stunt.

The incident with the stomping happened after. She was no longer a threat or even a conceivable threat. She is a small 100 lb woman and unlicensed political activists for the other side, do not get to chase her down, manhandle and stomp her.

The idea of blame the victim here is repulsive.

Her size doesn't matter. The potential threat would most likely be from a gun. She can still pull a trigger and do as much damage as anyone else.

26 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:28:10pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Her size doesn't matter. The potential threat would most likely be from a gun. She can still pull a trigger and do as much damage as anyone else.

So, do you think they should have shot her?

27 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:28:12pm

It shows that she was persistent, yes. But she was assaulted the moment the brutes tackled her to the ground and Profitt did what he did. She doesn't appear to be a big person, compared to the goons who attacked her. She could have easily been placed in a bear hug and led away with 2-4 guys. They went overboard. I sincerely hope she presses charges.

28 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:28:14pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul. If she had stood in the area where Paul got out of his car. Stood there calmly like everybody else she could have showed him her sign as he walked past shaking people's hands.
My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.
She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

I see your point. Honestly, the bit with the sign was cause for the cops to grab her.

However, it was not the place of Paul bots to do so. That is the issue. However much I might want to beat the snot out of a Fred Phelps protester, I know that I am going to have legal issues if I do.

29 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:28:20pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

funny having watched the video i don't see anyone trying to throw anything in the window and only see a member of the security detail pulling her away from the vehicle and pushing her back into the crowd.

30 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:00pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul. If she had stood in the area where Paul got out of his car. Stood there calmly like everybody else she could have showed him her sign as he walked past shaking people's hands.
My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.
She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

You have no sympathy for the fact that this woman has suffered a concussion?

No one should ever have to go to a hospital for expressing their political opinions in a non violent way....

31 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:00pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul.

And I don't think either of those things makes her a more likely assailant.


My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.

Really? Your sympathy for the woman who's head was stomped on while she was held down has dropped to zero?


She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

Again: I don't think it should be illegal to act as she did. If you're out in public, you're going to have people try to get in your face. She wasn't at any time holding a weapon.

She was no danger to Paul. She was a theoretical danger. So was the theoretical guy who stood quietly with a grenade in his pants.

Are you more likely to draw the attention of security if you act like a loony?

Yes.

Are you more likely to be an assassin if you act like a loony?

I don't think so. Especially if you're clearly holding a sign.

32 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:09pm

re: #16 Charles

If they had stopped at wrestling her to the ground, we probably wouldn't be talking about this.

Agreed. The stomping is over the top. I don't condone it but it's easy to see how it happened.

33 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:32pm

re: #29 Dreggas

funny having watched the video i don't see anyone trying to throw anything in the window and only see a member of the security detail pulling her away from the vehicle and pushing her back into the crowd.

Nah. She didn't try to throw the sign into the window. That's pretty clear.

34 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:29:52pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Her size doesn't matter. The potential threat would most likely be from a gun. She can still pull a trigger and do as much damage as anyone else.

Fine, so if the regular security, that effectively got her away (!), had wrestled her and had her arrested, right at that time (!) we also would have nothing to talk about. After she was away from teh scene though, your gun talk becomes a non-viable argument.

35 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:20pm

This was a clear threat! We must invade her home town and begin with a campaign of "Shock an Awe" bombing campaign.

/Neocon

/

36 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:37pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Her size doesn't matter. The potential threat would most likely be from a gun. She can still pull a trigger and do as much damage as anyone else.

So could anybody else in that crowd.

Do you really think the woman who intends to shoot someone would act so crazy as opposed to trying to stand their quietly until she had a shot?

///But since everybody knows someone acting so crazy wouldn't have a gun that's why she's the perfect person to have a gun....

///But if everyone knows that everyone knows.....

37 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:44pm

re: #35 Gus 802

This was a clear threat! We must invade her home town and begin with a campaign of "Shock an Awe" bombing campaign.

/Neocon

/

IN the name of Freedom of Speech!

38 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #35 Gus 802

This was a clear threat! We must invade her home town and begin with a campaign of "Shock an Awe" bombing campaign.

/Neocon

/

And then the spankings! Bad Zoot!

39 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #29 Dreggas

funny having watched the video i don't see anyone trying to throw anything in the window and only see a member of the security detail pulling her away from the vehicle and pushing her back into the crowd.

Watch it again. She seems to be trying to stuff her sign into the window.

40 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #34 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't think there's any charge she could possibly be arrested on. Touching a vehicle with a sign? Attempted political protest? Causing trouble?

41 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:31:06pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

IN the name of Freedom of Speech!

Here here! I mean hur hur!

/

42 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:31:34pm

re: #40 Obdicut

I don't think there's any charge she could possibly be arrested on. Touching a vehicle with a sign? Attempted political protest? Causing trouble?

Being Politically active while Liberal.

43 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:31:38pm

re: #41 Gus 802

Here hereHear hear! I mean hur hur!

/

Oops.

44 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:32:44pm

This is a weird baseball game.

45 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:32:46pm

Being loony with a sign near a car = BAD.
Showing up with a gun at an Obama rally = Exercising 2nd amendment right.
I love wingnut logic.

46 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:33:02pm

re: #40 Obdicut

I don't think there's any charge she could possibly be arrested on. Touching a vehicle with a sign? Attempted political protest? Causing trouble?

Yeah exactly. At best there are some civil disorderly conduct things that could be levied at her.

BTW, I didn't know you had been a bouncer. That also explains a lot about how you know so much about the physical end of things (from our earlier discussions).

The bottom line, is that what happened wasn't even in the moment. It was over the line for in the moment, and it was done by the wrong people after the fact.

47 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:33:48pm

re: #45 Varek Raith

Being loony with a sign near a car = BAD.
Showing up with a gun at an Obama rally = Exercising 2nd amendment right.
I love wingnut logic.

AR-15 near the President = Not a Threat.
Sign near Dr. Paulnut = Threat

48 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:34:13pm
49 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:34:24pm

Morticia says, "Calm down."
[Link: imgur.com...]

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:34:32pm

Now that I've seen it, no, it changes nothing for me.

That's about what I assumed she was doing, from all accounts. They definitely needed to pull her back. They may, depending on what else happened, needed to restrain her. She was posing a danger to herself and others.

The headstomping remains disgusting.

51 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:34:41pm

I guess that the people screaming at Lewis and the other representatives as they walked along should have just all gotten hogtied.

Look at all that potential threat! They've got signs, they're shouting kill!

52 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:34:48pm

re: #33 Gus 802

Nah. She didn't try to throw the sign into the window. That's pretty clear.

The window was down until just before the door was opened, and I saw the sign go towards the car's window twice. Nobody looked like they felt that was too scary, though. They didn't even take the sign from her. The stomper was assisting in taking her down, by pulling on her jacket, I think. The stomp was out of anger. She was already in the fetal position, although next time I bet she tucks her head in a little more.

53 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:35:39pm

re: #52 wrenchwench

The window was down until just before the door was opened, and I saw the sign go towards the car's window twice. Nobody looked like they felt that was too scary, though. They didn't even take the sign from her. The stomper was assisting in taking her down, by pulling on her jacket, I think. The stomp was out of anger. She was already in the fetal position, although next time I bet she tucks her head in a little more.

They should have just let her walk away. After she was already pushed away.

54 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:35:44pm

re: #52 wrenchwench

The window was down until just before the door was opened, and I saw the sign go towards the car's window twice. Nobody looked like they felt that was too scary, though. They didn't even take the sign from her. The stomper was assisting in taking her down, by pulling on her jacket, I think. The stomp was out of anger. She was already in the fetal position, although next time I bet she tucks her head in a little more.

F**** if there is a "next time" somebody is going to serriously pay for it....


There had better not be a next time....

55 nonono  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:35:50pm

Well the kids have to be put to bed. Thanks for the information and disscussion. Will try to find time to join in some.

56 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:35:53pm

re: #26 Gus 802

So, do you think they should have shot her?

Probably not but these situations are very dangerous. All it takes is for a cop to mistake something in her hand as a weapon and they are obliged to take action. I don't think these people (The Iraqi shoe thrower, Code Pink hassling Condi, etc) really understand how close to death they are when they do these things. I also think that these silly stunts create a very serious risk for real attacks. Is that person going to throw a pie at a politician or assassinate them? It only takes a split second to make the difference.

57 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:13pm

re: #40 Obdicut

I don't think there's any charge she could possibly be arrested on. Touching a vehicle with a sign? Attempted political protest? Causing trouble?

Free speech for me but not for thee

This whole debate has me scratching my head.

MoveOn by association set the stage.

58 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:14pm

re: #47 Gus 802

AR-15 near the President = Not a Threat.
Sign near Dr. Paulnut = Threat

Exactly. Though to be fair, those gun wielding protests were very far from whatever security perimeter the secret service set up. They were only hyped to be close and meant as a threat display and a sign of childish, incohate, macho rebellion.

Had any of them got within 100 meters - probably more like 300 meters actually, of the president with a rifle, they would have been shot first and questioned if they survived.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:27pm

re: #14 Gus 802

This is Rand Paul we're talking about. He's just the Republican Senatorial candidate for the state of Kentucky. He's not the goldarn POTUS requiring and expected to have Secret Service like protection. If people keep raising this "threat" issue to even higher levels the next thing you know you'll have people saying that she should have been shot.

This kind of thing is not uncommon. You can see how relaxed his security people are, as they move her back from the car.

60 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:39pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Agreed. The stomping is over the top. I don't condone it but it's easy to see how it happened.

No. No, it is not easy to see how it happened. No, I take it back, it is easy but it requires thinking less of the people to whom Mr. Paul appeals.

It wasn't security. Security bounced her. At least two members of the security team looked her way as she came around the other direction (based on this video) and were ready again.

What we had were vigilantes; folk who apparently weren't satisfied with a measured response. Who felt it necessary not only to grab her and wrestle her to the ground but to go just a bit extra in... contempt? anger? spite? I really don't know, I just know it crystallized the entirety.

61 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:36:51pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Probably not but these situations are very dangerous. All it takes is for a cop to mistake something in her hand as a weapon and they are obliged to take action. I don't think these people (The Iraqi shoe thrower, Code Pink hassling Condi, etc) really understand how close to death they are when they do these things. I also think that these silly stunts create a very serious risk for real attacks. Is that person going to throw a pie at a politician or assassinate them? It only takes a split second to make the difference.

You want to compare this to the Shoe Thrower?

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:37:30pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul. If she had stood in the area where Paul got out of his car. Stood there calmly like everybody else she could have showed him her sign as he walked past shaking people's hands.
My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.
She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

This isn't about 'sympathy' for her.

63 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:37:34pm

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

Exactly. Though to be fair, those gun wielding protests were very far from whatever security perimeter the secret service set up. They were only hyped to be close and meant as a threat display and a sign of childish, incohate, macho rebellion.

Had any of them got within 100 meters - probably more like 300 meters actually, of the president with a rifle, they would have been shot first and questionedshot again if they survived.

Fixed that for you.

64 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:37:54pm

Fine.
All candidates should ride in Pope Mobiles.
9_9

65 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:38:16pm

re: #29 Dreggas

funny having watched the video i don't see anyone trying to throw anything in the window and only see a member of the security detail pulling her away from the vehicle and pushing her back into the crowd.

0:15 of the video. She shoves her sign (I think it was a mock award) partially in the window of the car or at least attempts to.

66 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:38:36pm

re: #64 Varek Raith

Fine.
All candidates should ride in Pope Mobiles.
9_9

Because I don't get enough chances to type the phrase "Pope Mobile"

67 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:38:49pm

re: #30 jamesfirecat

You have no sympathy for the fact that this woman has suffered a concussion?


None.

68 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:39:09pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

0:15 of the video. She shoves her sign (I think it was a mock award) partially in the window of the car or at least attempts to.

And that means the people present have a right a right to do.... what... to her in response?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:39:10pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Her size doesn't matter. The potential threat would most likely be from a gun. She can still pull a trigger and do as much damage as anyone else.

And it's a well-known fact that no one can pull a gun after they've been kicked in the head? Bullshit. That was revenge, not a reasonable response to a threat.

If the real security or the cops had had reason to suspect a gun, they would have acted. These guys don't get to do that.

70 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:39:31pm

re: #66 jamesfirecat

Because I don't get enough chances to type the phrase "Pope Mobile"

TO THE POPE CAVE!
*Cues Batman Theme*

71 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:39:38pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

None.

I feel for you, because I worry you will have a hard time feeling for anyone else.

72 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:39:39pm

Never thought I'd see the day when KT would be defending Paulians and wingnuts.

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:39:56pm

re: #29 Dreggas

funny having watched the video i don't see anyone trying to throw anything in the window and only see a member of the security detail pulling her away from the vehicle and pushing her back into the crowd.

She's trying to press the sign up into the window. The security guy easily pushes her back, and she shows persistence, but no violence toward him.

74 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:03pm

She could've been another Squeaky Fromme

75 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:28pm

re: #74 JustaDummy

She could've been another Squeaky Fromme

Give me a break.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:31pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Agreed. The stomping is over the top. I don't condone it but it's easy to see how it happened.

Yes. These guys thought they could get away with it.

77 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:33pm

re: #61 jamesfirecat

You want to compare this to the Shoe Thrower?

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

Not at all.

78 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:38pm

re: #74 JustaDummy

Your nic is very apt.

79 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:38pm

re: #74 JustaDummy

She could've been another Squeaky Fromme

I don't get the reference but strongly suspect I'll be down dinging you once someone explains it to me...

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:55pm

re: #35 Gus 802

This was a clear threat! We must invade her home town and begin with a campaign of "Shock an Awe" bombing campaign.

/Neocon

/

There are no coincidences in loopy liberalism.

81 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:40:58pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

I don't get the reference but strongly suspect I'll be down dinging you once someone explains it to me...

Manson Family.

82 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:09pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Probably not but these situations are very dangerous. All it takes is for a cop to mistake something in her hand as a weapon and they are obliged to take action. I don't think these people (The Iraqi shoe thrower, Code Pink hassling Condi, etc) really understand how close to death they are when they do these things. I also think that these silly stunts create a very serious risk for real attacks. Is that person going to throw a pie at a politician or assassinate them? It only takes a split second to make the difference.

Yeah, you're right. We should be more of a police state.

83 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:14pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

Not at all.

Well it's not like Abortion issue where there is a scientific way to discuss this and the implications involved so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:27pm

re: #40 Obdicut

I don't think there's any charge she could possibly be arrested on. Touching a vehicle with a sign? Attempted political protest? Causing trouble?

If she touched Paul with the sign, I guess they could call it assault and battery.

85 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:28pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Her size doesn't matter. The potential threat would most likely be from a gun. She can still pull a trigger and do as much damage as anyone else.

Okay, fuck this shit, she was on the ground with both arms restrained, yet you keep finding reasons to semi-excuse the stomp. If this is what's going to be on tonight's menu I'm going to have to buy some weed to go along with the bullshit.

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Agreed. The stomping is over the top. I don't condone it but it's easy to see how it happened.

I do not agree, at all.

86 darthstar  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:37pm

re: #16 Charles

If they had stopped at wrestling her to the ground, we probably wouldn't be talking about this.

If Rand Paul had personally apologized, we wouldn't still be talking about this.

87 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:38pm

re: #68 jamesfirecat

And that means the people present have a right a right to do... what... to her in response?

No that means the cops should have dealt with her after her first attempt and not allow her to continue running around like a maniac.

88 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:40pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

I think 'sympathy' may just be the wrong word here. I think her political stunt was asinine. I think when you get in people's faces, bad shit can happen.

That doesn't mean that she doesn't have the right to be safe from assault and battery while engaging in her stupid stunt. She does have that right.

89 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:41:49pm

re: #52 wrenchwench

The window was down until just before the door was opened, and I saw the sign go towards the car's window twice. Nobody looked like they felt that was too scary, though. They didn't even take the sign from her. The stomper was assisting in taking her down, by pulling on her jacket, I think. The stomp was out of anger. She was already in the fetal position, although next time I bet she tucks her head in a little more.

It looked like she was trying to get Rand Paul to read the sign. She put it into the window backwards the first time, then pulled it out and tried to put it in the other way, then someone pushed her away. She was pretty aggressive about it.

But one thing that should be noted is that Profitt and the others who assaulted her apparently knew she was a MoveOn activist pulling a publicity stunt.

90 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:00pm

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford

91 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:06pm

re: #70 Varek Raith

TO THE POPE CAVE!
*Cues Batman Theme*

With Altar Boy and Jesus Disks!

Actually the company I do work for sells a host dispenser that works along the lines of a Pez dispenser only the hosts come out the bottom. I suggested we liven things up by putting in a sturdier spring, but they didn't the idea would go over all that well.

92 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:09pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

If she touched Paul with the sign, I guess they could call it assault and battery cardboard.

FTFY

93 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:42:20pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

No that means the cops should have dealt with her after her first attempt and not allow her to continue running around like a maniac.

And if the cops fail to do anything... what should be done?

94 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:43:00pm

re: #90 JustaDummy

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford

Uh, no she's not. She's been paroled.

95 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:43:08pm

re: #90 JustaDummy

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford


Relevance?

96 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:43:14pm

re: #90 JustaDummy

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford

And you could be Osama Bin Laden.

97 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:43:22pm

re: #94 Gus 802

Uh, no she's not. She's been paroled.

thats a shame

98 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:43:51pm

re: #90 JustaDummy

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford

So everyone who disagrees a politican is a killer in the making?

Well f*** I better go give myself up to the authorities before I buy a gun and try to shoot Dick Cheney!

99 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:00pm

Oh good grief.

My last nerve is talking to me.

100 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:21pm

re: #89 Charles

But one thing that should be noted is that Profitt and the others who assaulted her apparently knew she was a MoveOn activist pulling a publicity stunt.

Bingo. I think she was pulling a stunt but the story that she was a security threat is an excuse.

The throw down and stomp came well after Paul was on his way.

101 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:21pm

re: #95 Obdicut

Relevance?

Like I predicted. Now everything's been turned into this "she was a threat!!11ty" meme all the way up to "she could have been an "assassin!!11ty" Clearly we should invade Yemen.

/

102 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:43pm

re: #72 Gus 802

Never thought I'd see the day when KT would be defending Paulians and wingnuts.

I'll second that. However, I'm consistent. I've said the same thing when lefties would attempt citizens arrests on Cheney, when Code Pink got too close to Condi, and the Iraqi Shoe Thrower. These people are creating a dangerous security situation and are putting their own lives at risk. Same with this idiot.

103 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:49pm

re: #98 jamesfirecat

So everyone who disagrees a politican is a killer in the making?

Well f*** I better go give myself up to the authorities before I buy a gun and try to shoot Dick Cheney!

It's like the blog version of Minority Report.
Or some such nonsense.

104 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:50pm

re: #99 Charles

Oh good grief.

My last nerve is talking to me.

Kind of a Squeaky voice?

105 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:44:56pm

Please, Killgore, watch the video of the anti-health care protesters above, and tell me that you feel there was less potential threat from them than there was from this woman.

Shit, you can feel the hatred boiling off of them.

106 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:45:01pm

Kicks to the head are given by angry louts, not professionals.

107 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:45:24pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I'll second that. However, I'm consistent. I've said the same thing when lefties would attempt citizens arrests on Cheney, when Code Pink got too close to Condi, and the Iraqi Shoe Thrower. These people are creating a dangerous security situation and are putting their own lives at risk. Same with this idiot.

Minor threat.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:45:25pm

re: #74 JustaDummy

She could've been another Squeaky Fromme

Oh, holy shit, think about what you just said.

Anyone who walks up to any politician could be 'another Squeaky Fromme'. That doesn't mean that randomly tackling and brutally assaulting them is OK.

Tell me you'd be saying this if the politician were a Dem and the crazy woman with the sign a Tea Party gal.

109 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:45:26pm

re: #98 jamesfirecat

So everyone who disagrees a politician is a killer in the making?

Well f*** I better go give myself up to the authorities before I buy a gun and try to shoot Dick Cheney!

If you approach a politician in a "threatening manner" your should be dealt with appropriately

110 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:45:48pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Please, Killgore, watch the video of the anti-health care protesters above, and tell me that you feel there was less potential threat from them than there was from this woman.

Shit, you can feel the hatred boiling off of them.

Well said!

111 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:07pm

re: #90 JustaDummy

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford

You sure she isn't fronting Hole?

112 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:18pm

re: #81 Varek Raith

Manson Family.

Yeah, MoveOn = Manson Family.

They have made it to hate the liberals sooo much it's come to this.

Back to the Bush days when we were all traitors.

Feels so good.

113 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:26pm

re: #111 Jeff In Ohio

LOL

114 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:29pm

re: #109 JustaDummy

If you approach a politician in a "threatening manner" your should be dealt with appropriately

By which you mean what exactly?

Restrained?

Arrested?

Shot?

115 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:36pm

re: #109 JustaDummy

Which she was.
BY THE PROPER SECURITY DETAIL.

116 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:39pm

re: #109 JustaDummy

If you approach a politician in a "threatening manner" your should be dealt with appropriately

By the appropriate people at the appropriate time.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:46:59pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

I don't get the reference but strongly suspect I'll be down dinging you once someone explains it to me...

Manson girl. Tried to assassinate Gerald Ford back in the day.

118 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:47:01pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Please, Killgore, watch the video of the anti-health care protesters above, and tell me that you feel there was less potential threat from them than there was from this woman.

Shit, you can feel the hatred boiling off of them.

Which video? Missed it.

119 Monkeyboy  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:01pm

re: #114 jamesfirecat

re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote

By the appropriate people at the appropriate time.

exactly

120 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:03pm

re: #114 jamesfirecat

By which you mean what exactly?

Restrained?

Arrested?

Shot?

You disagreed with me! I feel threatened! Get him boys!

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:32pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

No that means the cops should have dealt with her after her first attempt and not allow her to continue running around like a maniac.

Any footage of what she did AFTER the episode at the car that is supposed to have triggered this behavior? Please note, I assume that if Paul's security detail had told the cops they needed backup, they would have gotten it.

122 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:34pm

re: #119 JustaDummy

re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote

exactly

Well that was done to her.

Then she was stomped on by a bunch of jackasses just cause.

How do you feel about that?

123 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:37pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Probably not but these situations are very dangerous. All it takes is for a cop to mistake something in her hand as a weapon and they are obliged to take action. I don't think these people (The Iraqi shoe thrower, Code Pink hassling Condi, etc) really understand how close to death they are when they do these things. I also think that these silly stunts create a very serious risk for real attacks. Is that person going to throw a pie at a politician or assassinate them? It only takes a split second to make the difference.

In a word, no. Or rather, you're confused as to what action they're obliged to take.

You do not shoot into a crowd. You do not shoot into a crowd. And never shoot into a crowd. If you're close to the suspect, you call 'gun' (or whatever your call is) and tackle the person. If you're close to the assumed target and hear 'gun' you move the target to safe. Note the priority. If you're not close to either, you call gun and close on the suspect.

To support, rather than claim credentials I'll just point you to any of the past presidential shootings. Robert Pickett was eventually shot, after 10 minutes that included clearing the area. Francisco Duran was tackled by bystanders. John Hinckley was tackled by secret service. Sara Jane Moore was grabbed. Squeaky Fromme was grabbed.

Putting it plainly, the defense "she might have had a gun" is a false defense for the stomping.

124 Tigger2  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:48pm

This video changes nothing, the bullying actions of Pauls volunteers was totally uncalled for and should be prosecuted for assault.

125 jaunte  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:49pm

re: #94 Gus 802

Uh, no she's not. She's been paroled.

She's gone to Marcy.

Oneida County Undersheriff M. Peter Paravati says the paperwork says no extra security will be needed for her, and State Police also tell Action News that they have no plans for extra security for the now-60 year old woman who's done 34 years in prison for pointing a gun at then-President Gerald Ford back in 1975. Undersheriff Paravati says because Ford is dead, the perceived threat is lessened.
[Link: www.cnycentral.com...]
126 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:48:53pm

re: #109 JustaDummy

So how do you feel all the anti-health care protesters in the video I linked above should have been dealt with?

Hell, I never thought I'd say this, but Arlan Specter dealt with this in about a thousand times classier a fashion:

127 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:07pm

re: #120 PT Barnum

You disagreed with me! I feel threatened! Get him boys!

Zombie guards, SEIZE HIM!
Tell me that's not fun to say!
- Mentok the Mind Taker

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:14pm

re: #90 JustaDummy

FYI - Squeaky Fromme is serving life for attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford

No, she was released summer before last.

129 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:22pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This one.

130 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:33pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

I don't get the reference but strongly suspect I'll be down dinging you once someone explains it to me...

A member of the Manson cult tried to assassinate President Gerald Ford in 1974.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:52pm

re: #95 Obdicut

Relevance?

Small women have been political assassins. Therefore, beating the shit out of small women who piss you off politically is entirely justified.

132 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:55pm

re: #123 kirkspencer

In a word, no. Or rather, you're confused as to what action they're obliged to take.

You do not shoot into a crowd. You do not shoot into a crowd. And never shoot into a crowd. If you're close to the suspect, you call 'gun' (or whatever your call is) and tackle the person. If you're close to the assumed target and hear 'gun' you move the target to safe. Note the priority. If you're not close to either, you call gun and close on the suspect.

To support, rather than claim credentials I'll just point you to any of the past presidential shootings. Robert Pickett was eventually shot, after 10 minutes that included clearing the area. Francisco Duran was tackled by bystanders. John Hinckley was tackled by secret service. Sara Jane Moore was grabbed. Squeaky Fromme was grabbed.

Putting it plainly, the defense "she might have had a gun" is a false defense for the stomping.

Excellent post.

We can tell the people who have some training talking from those who don't rather clearly.

133 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:49:55pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Zombie guards, SEIZE HIM!
Tell me that's not fun to say!
- Mentok the Mind Taker

Lauren Valle should get 10 years for attempted murder!!11ty

/Redrum

/

134 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:50:51pm

She wasn't trying to stuff the sign in the window, she was trying to turn it around so Paul could see it.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:50:59pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I'll second that. However, I'm consistent. I've said the same thing when lefties would attempt citizens arrests on Cheney, when Code Pink got too close to Condi, and the Iraqi Shoe Thrower. These people are creating a dangerous security situation and are putting their own lives at risk. Same with this idiot.

I don't think any of those folks were headstomped by overeager political volunteers.

136 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:52:39pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think any of those folks were headstomped by overeager political volunteers.

I doubt that Iraqi shoe thrower was a leftie.

137 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:52:43pm

I don't think the crowd had any business putting their hands on her, though they may very well have done so with good intentions (thinking Paul was in danger). The security people didn't seem to be concerned once they'd moved her away, and it appears that they had Paul surrounded on all sides once he got out of the vehicle.

Overall, I think security at the event sucked, especially considering the heated emotional climate surrounding the current elections. That being said, I also think Valle was wrong to rush up to the vehicle they way she did—if someone had approached me like that I would have definitely flinched. IMHO, it should be made clear that anyone approaching a candidate suddenly or aggressively will be restrained and immediately escorted from the premises.

The head stomping after she could clearly no longer be considered a "threat" remains inexcusable, and I still think Profitt should be prosecuted for it.

138 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:53:29pm

Kudos to Charles for putting this up.
re: #102 Killgore Trout

Good man Kilgore.
We clearly saw her for the provocateur she intended to be. Hustling her away is fine. Maybe even a take down. Maybe. I mean she froze on contact so there was absolutely no fight in her. The "bums rush" away would have been enough. Enough is enough. Literally.

It's also a reminder how dangerous crowds are and to deliberately provoke like that is doubly dangerous or more. It's not about who is who, it is about what happened. The big reason police put buffer zones up at protests (as I documented at the Tea Party Express at Griffith Park) is a very good idea. Counter protest can happen from a short distance away. Just to keep it non violent.

139 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:53:42pm

re: #136 Gus 802

I doubt that Iraqi shoe thrower was a leftie.

No, he was a rightie. (wink)

140 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:54:25pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

Any footage of what she did AFTER the episode at the car that is supposed to have triggered this behavior? Please note, I assume that if Paul's security detail had told the cops they needed backup, they would have gotten it.

After she tries to shove her sign through the car window (I don't know if she tried more than once or they just repeated that part for emphasis), you can see her coming around the other side of the car at about 0.58 in the video.

141 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:55:23pm

re: #123 kirkspencer

Agreed. Although an assassin would likely come under fire at a POTUS event.
You sound like some one with training... ? Or well read?

142 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:55:30pm

re: #138 Rightwingconspirator

I was kind of surprised, that RP was as close to the crowd, as he was.

143 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:56:21pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

Small women have been political assassins. Therefore, beating the shit out of small women who piss you off politically is entirely justified.

We are all Fanny Kaplan.

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:57:03pm

re: #109 JustaDummy

If you approach a politician in a "threatening manner" your should be dealt with appropriately

She was. His security moved her back.

145 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:57:24pm

re: #138 Rightwingconspirator

She was a provocateur, sure. Not the provocateur she's being made out to be. It's clear all knew her intentions and expected her antics and I doubt there was a real worry about her hurting Paul, more like not wanted her to succeed.

We can argue all we want between what happened there and the final take down and foot stomp. She got taken down after Paul was on his way, though the take downers may not get charges.

We all agree Stomper Tim was out of line and not justified.

146 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:57:53pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Nobody else in the crowd tried to throw an object in the car. Nobody else ran around the car towards Paul. If she had stood in the area where Paul got out of his car. Stood there calmly like everybody else she could have showed him her sign as he walked past shaking people's hands.
My sympathy for her has dropped to zero.
She was acting aggressively and was persistent. The cops were not doing their job properly and they placed both her and Paul in danger.

You know I love you to death, but I have to down ding this one. She was not rying to throw anything at th car. She was trying to get her sign on camera with Paul in the frame, which is perfectly well protected free speech even if it is silly and reeks like bad cheese.

The tea party guys seem to actually despise free speech when it comes from the otheer side. We have seen plenty of that this week in Alaska (and now from O'Donnel threatening a radio station today).

She was not at fault, and the thugs who attacked her belong in brown uniforms.

Just wait for what will happen on election day when these idiots start approacing and challenging voters going into the polls...like they are already trying to do here in North Carolina.

If any of thse fuckers comes up to me, I will have pepper spray handy.

147 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:58:17pm

Tell me, what is more menacing to you?

(a) A liberal woman pushing a sign into a candidate's face.

(b) Multiple, angry conservatives bringing their guns to events with the President and other Democrats.

Can you imagine the uproar if liberals in the crowd had wrestled those gun-carriers to the ground, took away their guns, and "stepped on their shoulder"? They would all start talking about how Obama was massing a civilian army to silence dissenters and confiscate all our guns. . . oh wait, plenty of nuts on the right already do say those things, even without any evidence.

148 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:58:45pm

re: #129 Obdicut

This one.


[Video]

Ah, ok. The are angry and ugly. However, nobody is running or lunging repeatedly at the politicians like this chick was.

149 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:58:46pm

re: #142 Floral Giraffe

He may change that now. I'd like all the candidates to be careful. Violence must not be a part of the election. Or I'll have to learn Pashtun!

150 Batman  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:59:03pm

"Oh good god, she has a piece of paper!"

151 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:59:10pm

It's like the ghost of Donald Rumsfeld: we are dealing with known unknowns. Suddenly this has turned into the possibility that she could very well have been an assassin? Suddenly it becomes the theater of the absurd.

152 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:59:25pm

We should correct one point, she wasn't kicked or head stomped, her head hit the pavement because the numbnut pushed hard on her shoulder and possibly her neck.

We don't want some wingnut using our inaccuracy as a red herring.

153 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:59:28pm

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

She was. His security moved her back.

But what if this person who had already been identified as a Move On agitator, so what she did came as no surprise to anyone,

was a Prom Queen

With a gun?

154 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 5:59:59pm

re: #150 nonsense

"Oh good god, she has a piece of paper!"

In the Line of Fire!!11ty

//

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:00:19pm

re: #134 b_sharp

She wasn't trying to stuff the sign in the window, she was trying to turn it around so Paul could see it.

Not sure about that. It does look to me as though she's trying to shove it through the window.

156 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:01:06pm

Starring John Malkovich as Lauren Valle.

/

157 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:01:09pm

re: #146 celticdragon

You know I love you to death, but I have to down ding this one. She was not rying to throw anything at th car. She was trying to get her sign on camera with Paul in the frame, which is perfectly well protected free speech even if it is silly and reeks like bad cheese.

The tea party guys seem to actually despise free speech when it comes from the otheer side. We have seen plenty of that this week in Alaska (and now from O'Donnel threatening a radio station today).

She was not at fault, and the thugs who attacked her belong in brown uniforms.

Just wait for what will happen on election day when these idiots start approacing and challenging voters going into the polls...like they are already trying to do here in North Carolina.

If any of thse fuckers comes up to me, I will have pepper spray handy.

pepper spray? yummm! Tacos, pizza, wings, whatever pepper spray gives em some zest...

158 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:01:44pm

re: #150 nonsense

"Oh good god, she has a piece of paper!"

She's Yomiko Readman?!
;)

159 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:02:21pm

re: #157 brookly red

pepper spray? yummm! Tacos, pizza, wings, whatever pepper spray gives em some zest...

Th new pepper sauces at Taco Bell are pretty good. :)

160 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:02:27pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. The are angry and ugly. However, nobody is running or lunging repeatedly at the politicians like this chick was.

Why the hell is that significant to you, though?

I don't get it.

161 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:02:43pm

re: #147 JamesWI

How close did they come to the President in that incident?

162 Vambo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:02:53pm

I'm wondering if these dudes were having flashbacks of Lynette Fromme. She's even wearing a red hood thingy!!

Nah...probably not.

163 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:02:58pm

re: #151 Gus 802

It's like the ghost of Donald Rumsfeld: we are dealing with known unknowns. Suddenly this has turned into the possibility that she could very well have been an assassin? Suddenly it becomes the theater of the absurd.

Absurd, completely clouded by the partisanship.

I'm really disgusted.

164 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:03:09pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Not sure about that. It does look to me as though she's trying to shove it through the window.

It may be she was trying to get it in front of Paul's eyes, but it doesn't look like she was trying to hit him with it, and the second entry into the window after she turned it, may have because of the pushing from those around her.

165 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:03:27pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

And also-- 'lunging'?-- she pushed a sign at him.

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:04:20pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

How close did they come to the President in that incident?

It's apples and oranges. A barely veiled, but inactive, death threat, as opposed to a woman ferociously showing a man a cardboard sign. Hard to compare.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:04:49pm

re: #164 b_sharp

It may be she was trying to get it in front of Paul's eyes, but it doesn't look like she was trying to hit him with it, and the second entry into the window after she turned it, may have because of the pushing from those around her.

No, she's not trying to hit him, she wants to make sure he has to look at it.

168 Vambo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:12pm

re: #164 b_sharp

It may be she was trying to get it in front of Paul's eyes, but it doesn't look like she was trying to hit him with it, and the second entry into the window after she turned it, may have because of the pushing from those around her.

She was there to get a picture of Paul w/ the sign, so I'm guessing she had a small camera with her and this was her last ditch effort

169 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:16pm

re: #160 Obdicut

Why the hell is that significant to you, though?

I don't get it.

Exactly. The worst threat is a gun, and you don't need to "lunge" at someone to use it.

170 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:19pm

re: #141 Rightwingconspirator

Agreed. Although an assassin would likely come under fire at a POTUS event.
You sound like some one with training... ? Or well read?

Again, NO presidential assassin or attempted assassin in the US has come under fire in the past century unless/until separated from the crowd. Every one of the names I listed was an attempted presidential assassin, one who actually had a pistol or rifle when they made their attempt, running back to Reagan. "Likely" runs into history.

As to training/well read, a bit of both, neither sufficient to make me more than somewhat knowledgeable.

171 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:23pm

You all remember that piece:

What if the Tea Party was black?

Same damn thing.

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

Your vision is clouded. Accept it.

172 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:28pm

re: #123 kirkspencer

My response was the the question as to if she should have been shot. Well trained secret service and local Tennessee cops are not the same thing. Police mistakenly shoot suspects all the time because they reached for their wasteband or they mistook a cell phone for a weapon. I'm not saying it would have been a recommended action but she created a situation where she could have possibly been killed.
Even the secret service: Ever notice how many people they run over? Innocent pedestrians get killed because they walk out in front of a motorcade thinking it will stop. It's also an assassination tactic to use pedestrians and even baby carriages to get a motorcade to stop or slow down.

173 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:31pm

re: #165 Obdicut

And also-- 'lunging'?-- she pushed a sign at him.

She was working on her glutes and quads.

174 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:05:38pm

Yeah it still doesn't justify the stomping. If this had happened with a Democrat, we'd be hearing from the same right wing bloggers defending Paul's people about union thugs and shit. Stomping on her was the wrong thing to do. Pure and simple.

175 darthstar  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:06:06pm

Okay...Giants tied it up...Buster.Fuckin'.Posey. Does it again...new game going into the 4th.

176 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:06:40pm

re: #152 b_sharp

We should correct one point, she wasn't kicked or head stomped, her head hit the pavement because the numbnut pushed hard on her shoulder and possibly her neck.

We don't want some wingnut using our inaccuracy as a red herring.


I saw a distinct stomp onto her left cheek and neck, and it looked pretty damned hard. She should have been takn to the hospital immediatly for possible spine damage.

She was treated for a concussion as it was.

177 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:07:31pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

Exactly. The worst threat is a gun, and you don't need to "lunge" at someone to use it.

We should be thankful she didn't attack him with dragon breath. Worse than a gun.

178 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:07:42pm

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

Impossible to compare. I would reasonably expect anyone who rushes up to a candidate with anything but a baby to be kissed will be handled roughly and quickly. And probably should be. If Rand had been stabbed or say Barbara Boxer got hurt by a counter protester we would be decrying poor security. Like when a thankfully harmless book flew by POTUS.

179 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:08:27pm

Okay, I lied. I think I will jump in for a sec just to say this:

I think Killgore has made some fair points that are difficult to ignore. Dismiss them with jokes and MBFs if you like, but do remember that KT is not some far-right wingnut apologist. Far from it.

On that note, I'm gonna go make some tacos. Peace y'all.

180 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:09:07pm

"nothing justifies the head-stomping" I agree completely. This is going too far. Restrain a person yes. Telling them to stay back or away yes.

181 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:09:39pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

My response was the the question as to if she should have been shot. Well trained secret service and local Tennessee cops are not the same thing. Police mistakenly shoot suspects all the time because they reached for their wasteband or they mistook a cell phone for a weapon. I'm not saying it would have been a recommended action but she created a situation where she could have possibly been killed.
Even the secret service: Ever notice how many people they run over? Innocent pedestrians get killed because they walk out in front of a motorcade thinking it will stop. It's also an assassination tactic to use pedestrians and even baby carriages to get a motorcade to stop or slow down.

What's the point if the video shows that she was shoved aside but what looked like a member of Paul's security team? There was no danger officially established after he disengaged. She was then left to vigilante justice. This isn't a matter of could have beens. We could also argue that she could have had a bomb, biological or chemical agents but that would be absurd no? Again, she was pushed aside by someone from security. No danger was ever established then, other then perhaps a potential threat or disruption, or now. There is no evidence that even remotely shows that this was ever a threat to Paul.

182 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:09:47pm

The woman was assaulted. That is a crime. The perpetartors need to be prosecuted.

Ms Vallee may be obnoxious and a less than stellar representative of the moonbat brigade, but she was a victim.

End of story.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:10:06pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

My response was the the question as to if she should have been shot. Well trained secret service and local Tennessee cops are not the same thing. Police mistakenly shoot suspects all the time because they reached for their wasteband or they mistook a cell phone for a weapon. I'm not saying it would have been a recommended action but she created a situation where she could have possibly been killed.
Even the secret service: Ever notice how many people they run over? Innocent pedestrians get killed because they walk out in front of a motorcade thinking it will stop. It's also an assassination tactic to use pedestrians and even baby carriages to get a motorcade to stop or slow down.

She did indeed create a situation where she could have been badly hurt or killed. She was being a dumbass.

This does not justify the response from a bunch of jumped-up, self-righteous non-security trained fuckwads who apparently decided that the way the professional were handling the situation wasn't violent or demeaning enough for their vile taste.

184 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:10:20pm

re: #138 Rightwingconspirator


It's also a reminder how dangerous crowds are and to deliberately provoke like that is doubly dangerous or more. It's not about who is who, it is about what happened. The big reason police put buffer zones up at protests (as I documented at the Tea Party Express at Griffith Park) is a very good idea. Counter protest can happen from a short distance away. Just to keep it non violent.


Good point. When I first posted the video the other night I made a point of saying something like "I don't usually make a big deal out of scuffles at rallies. They happen but this one seems pretty ugly."
These scuffles happen. People get excited. It doesn't excuse them but they happen. This chick created the incident that got her hurt. If this was a wingnut and a Dem politician I'd be saying exactly the same thing.

185 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:10:27pm

re: #178 Rightwingconspirator

Impossible to compare. I would reasonably expect anyone who rushes up to a candidate with anything but a baby to be kissed will be handled roughly and quickly. And probably should be. If Rand had been stabbed or say Barbara Boxer got hurt by a counter protester we would be decrying poor security. Like when a thankfully harmless book flew by POTUS.


Rand Pauls security brushed her off...which is their job. Pretty damned obvious they saw nothing to clutch their pearls over.

The entire assault on video demonstrates nothing more than hate and sadism.

186 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:10:44pm

re: #170 kirkspencer

Again, NO presidential assassin or attempted assassin in the US has come under fire in the past century unless/until separated from the crowd. Every one of the names I listed was an attempted presidential assassin, one who actually had a pistol or rifle when they made their attempt, running back to Reagan. "Likely" runs into history.

As to training/well read, a bit of both, neither sufficient to make me more than somewhat knowledgeable.

Well posted. +1

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:10:48pm

re: #176 celticdragon

I saw a distinct stomp onto her left cheek and neck, and it looked pretty damned hard. She should have been takn to the hospital immediatly for possible spine damage.

She was treated for a concussion as it was.

He put her head down pretty hard, and for no apparent reason except meanness.

188 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:10:50pm

I finally listened to my last nerve, by the way. It's not wrong very often.

189 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:11:29pm

re: #94 Gus 802

Uh, no she's not. She's been paroled.

hahahaha lol

190 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:11:40pm

What's happening right here, right now on this blog is a big part of the problem: We're all watching the same video and perceiving it differently, and we have the luxury of watching it over & over and scrubbing through the timeline frame by frame.

IRL, this happened in the space of a couple of confused minutes. In the dark. In the middle of a contentious & emotional election season. Jackass politicians need to stop whipping people into a frenzy of hate & paranoia. Like I said a minute ago, people (like Valle) need to cool it knowing these conditions, and campaign security and/or police need to be in better control of the situation.

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:12:12pm

re: #178 Rightwingconspirator

Impossible to compare. I would reasonably expect anyone who rushes up to a candidate with anything but a baby to be kissed will be handled roughly and quickly. And probably should be. If Rand had been stabbed or say Barbara Boxer got hurt by a counter protester we would be decrying poor security. Like when a thankfully harmless book flew by POTUS.

Sure. But I repeat--the security people did their job. Then the mob decided to have some fun beating up the bitch who dared try to make a photo op out of their leader.

They're fucking wannabe brownshirts, and I have absolutely no sympathy for their crap.

192 Vambo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:12:19pm

re: #174 HappyWarrior

Yeah it still doesn't justify the stomping. If this had happened with a Democrat, we'd be hearing from the same right wing bloggers defending Paul's people about union thugs and shit. Stomping on her was the wrong thing to do. Pure and simple.

Ah, if the "shoe was on the other foot" (er, no pun intended), and a Rand Paul supporter lunged at Barbara Boxer (or someone)... it would surely be evidence of Sharia Law, with the Marxist union thugs taking orders directly from Obama himself via earpiece (or MK-Ultra telepathic communication) to stomp non-believers.

193 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:12:39pm

re: #160 Obdicut

Why the hell is that significant to you, though?

I don't get it.

Because none of the people in that video are creating a potential physical threat.

194 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:12:48pm

I don't know, I live in a big city, it's crowded & sometimes personal space gets violated... I wish I had the basic instincts of a dog. Dogs know when to growl, when to bite & when to wag their tails...

I probably should not have bitten the sales girl that tried to spray cologne on me in Macy's, hey woulda, coulda, shoulda, shit happens.

195 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:13:01pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed in full.

196 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:13:08pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Good point. When I first posted the video the other night I made a point of saying something like "I don't usually make a big deal out of scuffles at rallies. They happen but this one seems pretty ugly."
These scuffles happen. People get excited. It doesn't excuse them but they happen. This chick created the incident that got her hurt. If this was a wingnut and a Dem politician I'd be saying exactly the same thing.

No.

She created the situation that got her brushed off by the professional security.

Saying she created what happened next is like saying rape victims have it coming for wearing tight jeans.

197 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:13:47pm

re: #192 Vambo

Ah, if the "shoe was on the other foot" (er, no pun intended), and a Rand Paul supporter lunged at Barbara Boxer (or someone)... it would surely be evidence of Sharia Law, with the Marxist union thugs taking orders directly from Obama himself via earpiece (or MK-Ultra telepathic communication) to stomp non-believers.

Exactly, I don't think this woman helped her cause here but no one deserves to be stomped on like that.

198 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:14:09pm

OH GOD A CHRISTMAS COMMERCIAL...

199 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:14:10pm

re: #188 Charles

I finally listened to my last nerve, by the way. It's not wrong very often.

I hope that means I'm not getting the boot for admitting I don't like jazz all that much downstairs.

//

200 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:14:23pm

Evening lizards!

I got some work done on my kitchen rebuild, the World Series is on, have a cold beer, life is good tonight.

201 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:14:37pm

Good evening Lizards..I have only 2 words to say..
GO GIANTS!

202 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:14:42pm

Oh shit, our first Jazz Flounce.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:00pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Good point. When I first posted the video the other night I made a point of saying something like "I don't usually make a big deal out of scuffles at rallies. They happen but this one seems pretty ugly."
These scuffles happen. People get excited. It doesn't excuse them but they happen. This chick created the incident that got her hurt. If this was a wingnut and a Dem politician I'd be saying exactly the same thing.

Me too.

She was attacked by people who were offended by her behavior. That fuckwad could have broken her neck. He had no reason to do so. Who stands over a restrained woman and steps on her head? A fucking Nazi.

This does not mean I think she did anything smart or appropriate. But you do not get to beat up someone a bit if you feel the security detail didn't hurt them enough to get you off.

204 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:21pm

re: #198 Varek Raith
We are close to Halloween. I have seen Christmas lights go up as early as Labor Day.

205 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:21pm

re: #199 PT Barnum

I hope that means I'm not getting the boot for admitting I don't like jazz all that much downstairs.

//

You bastard! You're out of here.

/kidding

206 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:37pm

re: #181 Gus 802

What's the point if the video shows that she was shoved aside but what looked like a member of Paul's security team? There was no danger officially established after he disengaged. She was then left to vigilante justice.


No, she was still running around like a maniac and tries to make a second attempt (at :50) which results in the takedown. That's why I blame this on shitty police work. She should have been restrained and held temporarily by the police after her first attempt.

207 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:46pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. But I repeat--the security people did their job. Then the mob decided to have some fun beating up the bitch who dared try to make a photo op out of their leader.
They're fucking wannabe brownshirts, and I have absolutely no sympathy for their crap.

Boldened for truth.

208 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:15:53pm

re: #199 PT Barnum

I hope that means I'm not getting the boot for admitting I don't like jazz all that much downstairs.

//

Or me and my Mac dissing.
/
:P

209 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:16:15pm

I truly hope the security folks for every candidate look long and hard at this and other recent scuffles.

As the song says "keep em separAted"

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:16:28pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

Because none of the people in that video are creating a potential physical threat.

At the time that she IS creating a potential physical threat, the security detail does not see fit to wrestle her to the ground and step on her head with force.

Can you explain to me where it became appropriate for some enthusiastic sadists in the crowd to better their work?

211 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:16:41pm

re: #206 Killgore Trout

No, she was still running around like a maniac and tries to make a second attempt (at :50) which results in the takedown. That's why I blame this on shitty police work. She should have been restrained and held temporarily by the police after her first attempt.

OK

212 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:16:46pm

re: #198 Varek Raith

OH GOD A CHRISTMAS COMMERCIAL...

Don't let the liberals here you say that. With their WAR ON CHRISTMAS, you'd best stick to calling it a "Holiday commercial," or they'll . . . do something . . . I guess

/Bill O'Reilly

213 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:16:52pm

i have instituted a policy of Rand Paul demonstrations will continue until liberal morale improves....................


/

214 jaunte  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:17:06pm

re: #190 CuriousLurker

Jackass politicians need to stop whipping people into a frenzy of hate & paranoia.


Not to mention Bill O'Reilly (winding up the killer of George Tiller), Glenn Beck freaking out over the Tides foundation until Byron Williams decided to try assassinating their employees, and other newspformers taking the same path to fortune and fame.

215 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:18:13pm

re: #198 Varek Raith

OH GOD A CHRISTMAS COMMERCIAL...

Happy Atheistmas!

/

216 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:18:27pm

re: #214 jaunte

Not to mention Bill O'Reilly (winding up the killer of George Tiller), Glenn Beck freaking out over the Tides foundation until Byron Williams decided to try assassinating their employees, and other newspformers taking the same path to fortune and fame.

they have whipped up this frenzy.

217 Vambo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:18:40pm

re: #202 BigPapa

Oh shit, our first Jazz Flounce.

Sounds like a dance that fat people did in the '20s.

218 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:18:57pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you explain to me where it became appropriate for some enthusiastic sadists in the crowd to better their work?


Because the police were not doing their job. They didn't deal with her the first time or the second time. They should have. I think they were right to restrain her but they shouldn't have to. The police should have done it.

219 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:19:01pm

re: #198 Varek Raith

OH GOD A CHRISTMAS COMMERCIAL...

On a World Series game!

220 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:19:19pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Or me and my Mac dissing.
/
:P

I'm up for that too.

Mrs PT has a Mac. It's a cross platform relationship but we've made it work. The Peanut is bi-keyboardal

221 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:19:22pm

re: #219 Alouette

LOL

222 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:19:22pm

re: #213 wozzablog

i have instituted a policy of Rand Paul demonstrations will continue until liberal morale improves...

/

uhh, why do people always confuse morale with attitude? Attitude is easy to adjust, morale not so much...

223 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:20:08pm

re: #215 Gus 802

Happy Atheistmas!

/

/ wait... isn't that May 1st?

224 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:20:15pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

My response was the the question as to if she should have been shot. Well trained secret service and local Tennessee cops are not the same thing. Police mistakenly shoot suspects all the time because they reached for their wasteband or they mistook a cell phone for a weapon. I'm not saying it would have been a recommended action but she created a situation where she could have possibly been killed.
Even the secret service: Ever notice how many people they run over? Innocent pedestrians get killed because they walk out in front of a motorcade thinking it will stop. It's also an assassination tactic to use pedestrians and even baby carriages to get a motorcade to stop or slow down.

Second part first - no, I have not noticed how many people they run over. The only one I recall was last year when a pair of vehicles from a motorcade headed in for end-of-mission maintenance hit and killed a pedestrian. Oh, there was the blogger who claimed a hit-and-run, but since the state department driver of the state department vehicle stopped to render aid I believe claiming a secret service hit-and-run to be a mistake.

To the first part, yes, it happens that police shoot innocents. They're even more likely to wrongfully tase someone. Now I'd like you to actually go back and look at maybe a dozen or so of these situations, more if you want, to see a common thread. Point one, they never happen in a crowd. Point two, they happen when the police officer believes there's a risk to his OWN life. Seriously, go re-read a bunch of cases from just about any state. There is never a crowd, and it's never to protect someone else.

Your points aren't valid, sorry. There hasn't been a case of someone in a US crowd getting shot by law enforcement pulling VIP security because they pulled something out or waved something. Identified wrongly (Gun call for a candy bar - I think it was in San Francisco - for example), but not shot.

225 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:20:49pm

re: #219 Alouette

On a World Series game!

I've seen Christmas decorations in stores since August. How sad is that?

226 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:21:16pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Because the police were not doing their job. They didn't deal with her the first time or the second time. They should have. I think they were right to restrain her but they shouldn't have to. The police should have done it.

The police don't seem to think that exericising your first Amendment rights...even stupidly...is a custodial offense.

Yet.

227 jaunte  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:21:21pm

re: #216 Stanley Sea

Some of the local talkers on conservative radio here have recently amped up their expressions of outrage. I'm sure they're following the media leaders because they can see it builds an audience, but it's disturbing.

228 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:21:34pm

re: #225 NJDhockeyfan

I've seen Christmas decorations in stores since August. How sad is that?

AND O'REILLY WONDERS WHY WE'RE AT WAR WITH CHRISTMAS?!?!
XD

229 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:21:58pm

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

We are close to Halloween. I have seen Christmas lights go up as early as Labor Day.

Shaaa...... some people here keep them up year round.

230 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:22:07pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Because the police were not doing their job. They didn't deal with her the first time or the second time. They should have. I think they were right to restrain her but they shouldn't have to. The police should have done it.

Good insight.

The assault ought never have happened.

231 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:22:12pm

re: #226 celticdragon

The police don't seem to think that exericising your first Amendment rights...even stupidly...is a custodial offense.

Yet.

and we would like to keep it that way, no?

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:22:14pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Because the police were not doing their job. They didn't deal with her the first time or the second time. They should have. I think they were right to restrain her but they shouldn't have to. The police should have done it.

They have no credibility with me. None. They assaulted her for pleasure. They're proud of what they did. Fuck them.

233 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:22:41pm

re: #176 celticdragon

I saw a distinct stomp onto her left cheek and neck, and it looked pretty damned hard. She should have been takn to the hospital immediatly for possible spine damage.

She was treated for a concussion as it was.

I just looked at the video again. The one guy grabs her breast with his left hand and pushes down, and then shoves her head into the other guy's shoe, then the ground with his right hand, then the idiot with the bad back places his foot on her shoulder and violently pushes her shoulder towards her head. He did it hard enough to potentially break bones. Her head smacked the ground twice.

She had stopped fighting, there was absolutely no need to push her to the ground.

234 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:22:44pm

re: #188 Charles

I finally listened to my last nerve, by the way. It's not wrong very often.

Can I take JustaDummy for 25 please?

235 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:23:10pm

re: #229 Mr Pancakes

I know :(

236 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:23:47pm

re: #228 Varek Raith

AND O'REILLY WONDERS WHY WE'RE AT WAR WITH CHRISTMAS?!?!
XD

Who fired the first shot?

237 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:24:41pm

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

Who fired the first shot?

That idiot neighbor who left Santa and the Reindeer on his roof ALL. YEAR. ROUND!

238 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:24:46pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Because the police were not doing their job. They didn't deal with her the first time or the second time. They should have. I think they were right to restrain her but they shouldn't have to. The police should have done it.

I want to make a crack about privatization, but out of respect for you I won't :)

239 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:25:42pm

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

Who fired the first shot?

/I was just trying to clean it...

240 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:25:49pm

re: #237 Varek Raith

That idiot neighbor who left Santa and the Reindeer on his roof ALL. YEAR. ROUND!

How did the reindeer do during hunting season?

241 Vambo  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:25:50pm

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

Who fired the first shot?

Germanic peoples?

242 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:25:51pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

"She was trying to provoke a reaction!"

Then congratulation numb senate candidate was stupid enough to fall for something Admiral Akbar would have seen coming a mile away.

Stay on Target!

243 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:26:02pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

They have no credibility with me. None. They assaulted her for pleasure. They're proud of what they did. Fuck them.

I may be wrong, but I detect a strong feeling on your part about the matter.
/

I do believe Curious Lurker's take on the matter puts things in perspective.

244 Gus  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:27:02pm

re: #237 Varek Raith

That idiot neighbor who left Santa and the Reindeer on his roof ALL. YEAR. ROUND!

Anything but those giant plastic candles.

/

245 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:27:37pm

I just saw the video. She's a fucking moron for what she did and the stomper deserves some jail time.

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:04pm

re: #243 researchok

I may be wrong, but I detect a strong feeling on your part about the matter.
/

I do believe Curious Lurker's take on the matter puts things in perspective.

Yeah. Some pretty strong feelings.

There would have been a gang rape to go with that little bit of fun bouncing her head off the curb if they thought they could get away with it. Filthy, disgusting cowards.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:21pm

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

I just saw the video. She's a fucking moron for what she did and the stomper deserves some jail time.

Basically, that covers it.

248 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:32pm

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

Who fired the first shot?


Some genius with a muzzle loading fowling piece at Concord...

249 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:47pm

Gotta go my dinner guest has arrived...

250 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:28:54pm

Out of curiosity, which former lizard is Iapyx? He just posted everything I have written for the past month and is trying lamely to argue about thermodynamics.

I was writing about heat exchange in the context of compressing gas filled cylinders.

He writes:

Not due to thermodynamics alone. If you compress it, and immediately uncompress it (retrieving the mechanical energy put in to it, and not just letting it go “thwack”), it returns to exactly the same temperature, Einstein. It’s only because you ran it through a restriction that the temperature went up.

That's right! It isn't due to thermodynamics alone! By G-d the magic libertarian heat pixies exchange the heat! Actually, if he understood the whole paragraph, and the preceding one, rather than taking part out of context, he would not have made the error.

I wonder if pointing out his error will help anything. Probably not.

I am amused though. Perhaps some of them will learn something by reading some actual science.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:29:35pm

Going to go get pizza.

252 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:29:58pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Going to go get pizza.

Don't forget the beer!

253 darthstar  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:30:00pm

re: #201 HoosierHoops

Good evening Lizards..I have only 2 words to say..
GO GIANTS!

Timmy's all warmed up...he just needs a couple of runs for a cushion and he'll pitch the whole game.

254 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:30:02pm

re: #244 Gus 802

Anything but those giant plastic candles.

/

Every year, I build a snowball gun and pick off anyone carrying presents and I bombard carollers. Show no mercy.

255 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:30:06pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Going to go get pizza.

Don't forget the pineapple.

256 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:31:03pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Going to go get pizza.

re: #252 NJDhockeyfan

Don't forget the beer!

or the pineapple

257 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:31:03pm

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

I just saw the video. She's a fucking moron for what she did and the stomper deserves some jail time.

Agreed. She was misbehaving but there was absolutely no justification for stomping her like that. Such an act can never be justified.

258 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:31:16pm

re: #255 Mr Pancakes

Don't forget the pineapple.

Pineapple? Pizza killer, have you no shame?

259 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:31:20pm

re: #255 Mr Pancakes

Don't forget the pineapple.

always one step ahead................. *curse you*

260 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:31:50pm

re: #258 ozbloke

Pineapple? Pizza killer, have you no shame?

Meat, add more meat to the pizza!

261 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:32:21pm

re: #258 ozbloke

Pineapple? Pizza killer, have you no shame?

It's a running joke man...... we all hate pineapple on pizza. (Well most of us anyway.)

262 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:32:25pm

re: #255 Mr Pancakes

re: #256 wozzablog

SMACK!

263 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:32:29pm

re: #230 researchok

Good insight.

The assault ought never have happened.

Thanks. I think what a lot of people seem to be missing (although I've said in numerous times) is that the police should have dealt with her for her own safety as much as the candidate. This could have been easily prevented.

264 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:32:53pm

re: #261 Mr Pancakes

It's a running joke man... we all hate pineapple on pizza. (Well most of us anyway.)

Brookly loves pineapple pizza.

265 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:32:53pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. She was misbehaving but there was absolutely no justification for stomping her like that. Such an act can never be justified.

Funny how it's been attempted in the partisan blogosphere.

Clear heads prevail, too bad we (presumptuous yes) are a minority.

266 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:33:08pm

Uproar as Catholic parishes hand out condoms

Roman Catholic parishes in central Switzerland have caused an uproar by distributing condoms as part of an HIV-AIDS awareness campaign.

267 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:33:19pm

re: #259 wozzablog

always one step ahead... *curse you*

Yea... just got in under the wire I guess..... and I type slow.

268 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:33:41pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

re: #256 wozzablog

SMACK!

OUCH!

*still worth it, mmm pineapple......... :-p *

269 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:33:44pm

re: #261 Mr Pancakes

It's a running joke man... we all hate pineapple on pizza. (Well most of us anyway.)

Praise the lord...

270 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:34:01pm

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

I just saw the video. She's a fucking moron for what she did and the stomper deserves some jail time.


They guys were planning to slam her whether she did anything or not. She was on Olbermann last night and testified she overheard them talking about recognizing her and what they could do about her before Paul even arrived. The stomper asshole himself has admitted they went and complained to the police about her presence when she showed up. I guess just being a 'libru'l activist is illegal now in their minds.

They planned to give the "uppity little bitch" an ass beating the moment the police blew them off. What she did with the sign was utterly irrelevent.

271 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:34:11pm

re: #267 Mr Pancakes

Yea... just got in under the wire I guess... and I type slow.

i had to add the extra layer of formatting - two - count them - two quoted replies...........

;-)

272 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:34:38pm

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL!
I don't think the stalkers are interested in learning.

273 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:02pm

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

Out of curiosity, which former lizard is Iapyx? He just posted everything I have written for the past month and is trying lamely to argue about thermodynamics.

I was writing about heat exchange in the context of compressing gas filled cylinders.

He writes:

That's right! It isn't due to thermodynamics alone! By G-d the magic libertarian heat pixies exchange the heat! Actually, if he understood the whole paragraph, and the preceding one, rather than taking part out of context, he would not have made the error.

I wonder if pointing out his error will help anything. Probably not.

I am amused though. Perhaps some of them will learn something by reading some actual science.

They'll learn nothing, sadly. They'll just scream and spew. Their hate will overwhelm all cognitive function.

274 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:02pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

I obviously can't prove it, but I got the distinct impression that they rather enjoyed what they were doing for a few seconds there (in a sort of crowd/hive-mind, let the ugly base instincts take over kind of way).

275 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:06pm

re: #272 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
I don't think the stalkers are interested in learning.

or pineapple.

276 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:14pm

re: #261 Mr Pancakes

It's a running joke man... we all hate pineapple on pizza. (Well most of us anyway.)


/don't worry... I have a list.

277 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:20pm

It's nice to have a contentious but friendly thread. It's been a while since we've had some good spice around here.

278 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:35pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. She was misbehaving but there was absolutely no justification for stomping her like that. Such an act can never be justified.

Misbehaving?

She was within her rights to be there and do what she did.

279 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:35:54pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

It's nice to have a contentious but friendly thread. It's been a while since we've had some good spice around here.

Well, I can hit you with a chair WWF style...
/

280 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:36:08pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Because the police were not doing their job. They didn't deal with her the first time or the second time. They should have. I think they were right to restrain her but they shouldn't have to. The police should have done it.

Why should they have restrained her, especially the second time?

Security did a redirect, and she bounced into the crowd instead of fighting or swinging. She didn't pause and change what she was holding, she didn't spit in their eyes, she didn't do ANYTHING to require breaking the security circle. All she did was come back around from the other direction, and before she reached either police or security team she was grabbed by the vigilantes.

Here's a small thought. What if she'd been an admirer and trying to hand him something expressing her support - a sign saying, "We Love You, Rand" for example? Answer, she'd have looked exactly the same on the first bounce and been treated exactly the same. And if you've ever been around when celebrities are noticed, the serious fans do not stop with one bounce. They WANT their autograph/seconds of fame/recognition.

The fly in this situation is that Proffit allegedly told police that she was going to "do something". So the police have a concerned citizen alert. There are two problems with this. First, they can't act till she does unless there's more than the alert. Second, and the reason, is that in a political venue, especially with supporters and opponents, there are "concerned citizens" who are actually trying to create incidents themselves. Again when something happened security bounced her with no problems making this a low action incident.

281 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:36:33pm

re: #276 brookly red

/don't worry... I have a list.

Muhahhahahah! Happy Halloween infidels...

282 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:36:41pm

I like pineapple on pizza, with Canadian bacon.

283 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:36:43pm

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

That reminds me: I'm sure they'll love the fact I'm defending the headstomping Paulians.

284 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:37:12pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. Some pretty strong feelings.

There would have been a gang rape to go with that little bit of fun bouncing her head off the curb if they thought they could get away with it. Filthy, disgusting cowards.

As I said earlier, she was the victim of assault. The perpetrators need to be prosecuted.

The danger lies in selective outrage- as if some victims or some perpetrators are more 'special' than others.

285 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:37:18pm

re: #282 prairiefire

I like pineapple on pizza, with Canadian bacon.

Communist

286 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:37:29pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

That reminds me: I'm sure they'll love the fact I'm defending the headstomping Paulians.

It'll confuse their wittle minds!
XD

287 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:37:48pm

re: #274 CuriousLurker

I obviously can't prove it, but I got the distinct impression that they rather enjoyed what they were doing for a few seconds there (in a sort of crowd/hive-mind, let the ugly base instincts take over kind of way).

You could almost hear the stomper calling her a bitch, in his mind if not vocally.

288 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:38:03pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

Well, I can hit you with a chair WWF style...
/

Don't make me bust out my new cannibal upgrade!

289 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:38:09pm

re: #270 celticdragon

They guys were planning to slam her whether she did anything or not. She was on Olbermann last night and testified she overheard them talking about recognizing her and what they could do about her before Paul even arrived. The stomper asshole himself has admitted they went and complained to the police about her presence when she showed up. I guess just being a 'libru'l activist is illegal now in their minds.

They planned to give the "uppity little bitch" an ass beating the moment the police blew them off. What she did with the sign was utterly irrelevant.

You should cross post that on Ludwig's "Another view of manhood" thread. Because that describes the behavior of the worst of the right to a tee. Exactly how Ludwig put it. GMTA

290 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:39:05pm

re: #233 b_sharp

I just looked at the video again. The one guy grabs her breast with his left hand and pushes down, and then shoves her head into the other guy's shoe, then the ground with his right hand, then the idiot with the bad back places his foot on her shoulder and violently pushes her shoulder towards her head. He did it hard enough to potentially break bones. Her head smacked the ground twice.

She had stopped fighting, there was absolutely no need to push her to the ground.

She was diagnosed with a concussion.

291 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:39:13pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

That reminds me: I'm sure they'll love the fact I'm defending the headstomping Paulians.

now that they shutdown CBGB where will they gig?

292 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:39:23pm

re: #287 b_sharp

You could almost hear the stomper calling her a bitch, in his mind if not vocally.

MoveOn = Squeaky Fromme

Don't you forget it

293 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:39:52pm

re: #287 b_sharp

You could almost hear the stomper calling her a bitch, in his mind if not vocally.

You heard that thought too, huh? I'm glad it wasn't just my imagination. I've seen that look before, the one he had on his face.

294 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:39:53pm

G'night all.

295 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:40:11pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

296 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:40:17pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

Well, I can hit you with a chair WWF style...
/

Still won't get you a bounce in the polls, Linda.

///

297 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:40:52pm

BRB.
Driver update.

298 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:41:00pm

re: #280 kirkspencer


The fly in this situation is that Proffit allegedly told police that she was going to "do something". So the police have a concerned citizen alert. There are two problems with this. First, they can't act till she does unless there's more than the alert. Second, and the reason, is that in a political venue, especially with supporters and opponents, there are "concerned citizens" who are actually trying to create incidents themselves.


Exactly!

The sign and what she did with it are a distraction to this central issue.

The attackers were already committed to making an example of her and the fact they talked to the police and tried to create a situation prior to any action on her part proves malice aforethought.

299 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:41:03pm

re: #292 Stanley Sea

MoveOn = Squeaky Fromme

Don't you forget it

I don't understand where they get that from. This woman was unarmed. Fromme had a gun.

300 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:41:53pm

re: #280 kirkspencer

If she were an overzealous fan the procedure should have been the same. Police should have held her for a moment, ask her a few questions, maybe give her a quick pat down, tell her to calm down. The police should have dealt with this.

301 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:42:22pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

I don't understand where they get that from. This woman was unarmed. Fromme had a gun.

It's part of the demonize the victim tactic that Malkin and others have adapted over the years. It's disgusting.

302 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:42:49pm

re: #293 CuriousLurker

You heard that thought too, huh? I'm glad it wasn't just my imagination. I've seen that look before, the one he had on his face.

You have to be careful with those kinds of generalizations.

For example, do you want to conjecture what the thugs who beat up on the middle aged black man at the Tea Party rally thinking?

This is a pot that need not be stirred, in my opinion.

303 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:04pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

Because none of the people in that video are creating a potential physical threat.

Of course they are. What on earth are you talking about? They're all 'potential' physical threats.

Drawing attention to yourself by trying to push a sign at a candidate is probably a good sign you're not a violent.

304 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:33pm

re: #285 Mr Pancakes

Communist

Dennis Leary's take on Canada...

305 jonanon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:36pm

I don't think anyone's pointed this out yet: Mike Pezzano (who, in the other video, holds down Lauren Valle while Tim Profitt stomps on her) makes an appearance in the above video at seconds :55-:57. He can be seen chasing Lauren from behind the vehicle before she is stopped and the camera pans away.

306 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:44pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

I don't understand where they get that from. This woman was unarmed. Fromme had a gun.

Really, DF, liberals in any way, shape or form have been pounded by the media into being BAD BAD BAD. i.e. assassins.

I've watched it, it actually is what the election has been built upon. Not what we will do for you, but how BAD they are.

307 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:49pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

It's nice to have a contentious but friendly thread. It's been a while since we've had some good spice around here.

I"m about to leave over some BS about pineapple. Plus my drink is empty.

308 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:43:59pm

re: #300 Killgore Trout

If she were an overzealous fan the procedure should have been the same. Police should have held her for a moment, ask her a few questions, maybe give her a quick pat down, tell her to calm down. The police should have dealt with this.

/it has been my experience that a quick pat down only excites the subject ;)

309 palomino  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:44:43pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. The are angry and ugly. However, nobody is running or lunging repeatedly at the politicians like this chick was.

Only spitting on them and calling them ni**er.

310 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:45:10pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

I don't understand where they get that from. This woman was unarmed. Fromme had a gun.


It's a form of wishful thinking. Charles showed some posts from the freepers that called for her death by gun shot.

I am astonished we actually share the same country with some of these people.

311 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:45:30pm

re: #304 NJDhockeyfan

Dennis Leary's take on Canada...


[Video]

I can't understand why they call Canadian bacon.... bacon....... it's actually bland flavorless ham slices. How dare they confuse the two.

312 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:46:18pm

re: #311 Mr Pancakes

I can't understand why they call Canadian bacon... bacon... it's actually bland flavorless ham slices. How dare they confuse the two.

who cares... just keep it off my pizza.

313 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:46:26pm

re: #280 kirkspencer

Exactly.

314 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:46:28pm

re: #298 celticdragon

Exactly!

The sign and what she did with it are a distraction to this central issue.

The attackers were already committed to making an example of her and the fact they talked to the police and tried to create a situation prior to any action on her part proves malice aforethought.

They knew she was a lefty but they didn't hassle her. She ran at the car and they moved her away. They stepped in after her second attempt. It was her behavior that brought this on. If it was her ideology they would have tackled her as soon as they learned she was a lefty. Maybe even after her first attempt.
If she had stood there where Paul was shaking hands with people and showed her sign when he came by this probably wouldn't have happened.

315 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:46:48pm

re: #272 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
I don't think the stalkers are interested in learning.

Hey hon, the latest stalker lampoon is a gem. I hope you enjoy it.

316 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:47:04pm

re: #311 Mr Pancakes

I can't understand why they call Canadian bacon... bacon... it's actually bland flavorless ham slices. How dare they confuse the two.

Canadians bacon manufacturers need to come down to Pennsylvania and take some classes from the Amish. Now there's some fine bacon.

317 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:48:24pm

Man, the SF Giants age giving it to the Rangers. They just knocked out the pitcher in the 5th.

318 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:48:46pm

re: #270 celticdragon

They guys were planning to slam her whether she did anything or not. She was on Olbermann last night and testified she overheard them talking about recognizing her and what they could do about her before Paul even arrived. The stomper asshole himself has admitted they went and complained to the police about her presence when she showed up. I guess just being a 'libru'l activist is illegal now in their minds.

They planned to give the "uppity little bitch" an ass beating the moment the police blew them off. What she did with the sign was utterly irrelevent.

Manly men in action. IT's so obvious to anyone who isn't a scared little gimp.

319 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:49:23pm

Giants look good. Really don't have a horse in thsi one. I just want a classic to remember. Kinda biased towards the Giants in a way since my dad was a huge Mays fan growing up.

320 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:49:28pm

re: #317 NJDhockeyfan

Man, the SF Giants age giving it to the Rangers. They just knocked out the pitcher in the 5th.

The knocked out a great pitcher in Cliff Lee. He's Mariano Rivera spooky, I'm shocked they got to him, much less 5 runs. This is huge.

321 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:49:47pm

re: #300 Killgore Trout

If she were an overzealous fan the procedure should have been the same. Police should have held her for a moment, ask her a few questions, maybe give her a quick pat down, tell her to calm down. The police should have dealt with this.

The police could have dealt with it better.

That gives zero cover to the vigilante assholes.

322 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:49:51pm

Giants are up! go Giants!
/ I like pineapple on pizza..So there!
LOL

323 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:49:58pm

re: #310 celticdragon

It's a form of wishful thinking. Charles showed some posts from the freepers that called for her death by gun shot.

I am astonished we actually share the same country with some of these people.

The Nazis had America supporters, and so did Stalin. Sadly, this sort of desire for totalitarianism is not new. What is new is how big a megaphone it has now.

324 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:08pm

Gnite all..

325 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:24pm

re: #314 Killgore Trout

They knew she was a lefty but they didn't hassle her. She ran at the car and they moved her away. They stepped in after her second attempt. It was her behavior that brought this on. If it was her ideology they would have tackled her as soon as they learned she was a lefty. Maybe even after her first attempt.
If she had stood there where Paul was shaking hands with people and showed her sign when he came by this probably wouldn't have happened.


They used it as an excuse, which was what they wanted. The only way she could have avoided them was to go home and admit that she doesn't have the same right to be there as the real God fearin' tea Party 'Mericans.

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:35pm

re: #266 ozbloke

Uproar as Catholic parishes hand out condoms

Roman Catholic parishes in central Switzerland have caused an uproar by distributing condoms as part of an HIV-AIDS awareness campaign.

Shouldn't be. Even in Ireland in the 90s, condoms were permitted by the bishops, although only for disease protection, and not to avert conception. (Don't think about that too hard, your head will rotate.)

327 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:41pm

re: #324 PT Barnum

Gnite all..

Nite

328 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:48pm

re: #315 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey hon, the latest stalker lampoon is a gem. I hope you enjoy it.

You know I love everything you do.
Sir.
;-)

329 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:53pm

re: #314 Killgore Trout

They knew she was a lefty but they didn't hassle her. She ran at the car and they moved her away. They stepped in after her second attempt. It was her behavior that brought this on.

No. It was their stupid reaction to her behavior that brought this on. Because they're humans, and not dogs. They're sentient, thinking creatures.

330 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:50:58pm

re: #322 HoosierHoops

Giants are up! go Giants!
/ I like pineapple on pizza..So there!
LOL

Well you scared me for a moment until I saw the sarc tag...... phew.

331 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:51:15pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

The Nazis had America supporters, and so did Stalin. Sadly, this sort of desire for totalitarianism is not new. What is new is how big a megaphone it has now.


Indeed.

332 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:51:23pm

re: #302 researchok

You have to be careful with those kinds of generalizations.

For example, do you want to conjecture what the thugs who beat up on the middle aged black man at the Tea Party rally thinking?

This is a pot that need not be stirred, in my opinion.

What I'm referring to is a couple of seconds in the original stomping video where Profitt had a certain out of control adrenaline-laden look in his eyes. It is unmistakable and unforgattable if you've ever seen it up close & personal. Whether it was due to fear or rage or a little bit of both I can't say, but it a very, very dangerous thing.

333 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:51:38pm

re: #274 CuriousLurker

I obviously can't prove it, but I got the distinct impression that they rather enjoyed what they were doing for a few seconds there (in a sort of crowd/hive-mind, let the ugly base instincts take over kind of way).

Of course they did. It is really best summed up by this stalker:

DorianGrey writes, and this is a gem:

How many people have actually watched the video that has Ludwig von Splodgeguzzler so offended?

It's on youtube and across the web - likely hundreds of thousands. Note the gay insult. When they get upset, this is the best they can manage.

How many of you have ever watched a video of a police take-down of a violent or uncooperative suspect?

Police who attack in gangs and give small women concussions are frequently suspended or worse. It is called police brutality. She did suffer a concussion by the way.

Even money says that the guy in Ludwig’s video who put’s his foot on the professional Marxist political activists shoulder and then head is a Police office. What he did that has Load in his pants upset, is a classic textbook example of police restraint procedures for violent or uncooperative individuals being taken into custody.

These were Rand Paul political activists. Tim profit is one of his head guys in Bourbon County. But even if your delusion of "police" were correct, and we know that losers like you masturbate to images of men in uniforms beating on people you don't like, she committed no crime, she was not violent, and in fact was chased down. But you claim she is a "Marxist," so, of course, "she asked for it..."

Furthermore, if you pay attention to the body language of the professional Marxist political activist being taken into custody, she is fully aware of the drill and utterly unsurprised by what is happening to her.

You got that from someone whose arms were held behind her back by two guys as another stepped on her? Note to all sane readers. This is what you get with wingnuts. Their delusions mutate everything.

Once she is on the ground and the foot is placed on her shoulder unlike someone who is having that happen to them for the first time, she becomes completely submissive. She knows from experience what comes next if she continues to resist arrest.

And what comes next? Did you get a "little chubby" writing that? Here is a guy who clearly fantasizes about beating women a lot. Someday, if someone puts you in that position, we'll see if you know what comes next, you sick bastard. But I digress from the main point. Losers can't bear it when people out do or defy them - particularly people whom they feel should be weaker than they. Of course, they hate women who speak up. Making such a woman "completely submissive, where she knows what's coming" has got to be their biggest sexual fantasy.

Make no mistake about it, those guys were either undercover police officers, or they were off duty police officers, their behavior and tactics were textbook examples of trained law enforcement procedures in take-down and arrest of violent or uncooperative individuals.

And the delusional, twisted, screen beret knows this how? But for the record once again :

The curbstomper of a defenseless woman is Tim Profitt, Rand Paul's Bourbon county coordinator.

[Link: www.louisville.com...]

334 theheat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:51:52pm

re: #316 NJDhockeyfan

I never buy Amish anything, if I can help it. Some of the worst animal stewards in the nation, and some of the highest concentrations of puppy mills. Their livestock always show up at the midwest and NE auction houses, usually worn out, broken, half-starved, and abused. Fucking can't stand 'em, for that reason.

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:52:08pm

re: #284 researchok

As I said earlier, she was the victim of assault. The perpetrators need to be prosecuted.

The danger lies in selective outrage- as if some victims or some perpetrators are more 'special' than others.

People from MoveOn are nothing special to me.

People who stomp on the heads of those who are no threat to them, however, are rather special to me.

336 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:52:33pm

Holy cow, a 3 run homerun by the Giants. It's 8-2 now.

337 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:52:53pm

re: #280 kirkspencer

Why should they have restrained her, especially the second time?

Security did a redirect, and she bounced into the crowd instead of fighting or swinging. She didn't pause and change what she was holding, she didn't spit in their eyes, she didn't do ANYTHING to require breaking the security circle. All she did was come back around from the other direction, and before she reached either police or security team she was grabbed by the vigilantes.

Here's a small thought. What if she'd been an admirer and trying to hand him something expressing her support - a sign saying, "We Love You, Rand" for example? Answer, she'd have looked exactly the same on the first bounce and been treated exactly the same. And if you've ever been around when celebrities are noticed, the serious fans do not stop with one bounce. They WANT their autograph/seconds of fame/recognition.

The fly in this situation is that Proffit allegedly told police that she was going to "do something". So the police have a concerned citizen alert. There are two problems with this. First, they can't act till she does unless there's more than the alert. Second, and the reason, is that in a political venue, especially with supporters and opponents, there are "concerned citizens" who are actually trying to create incidents themselves. Again when something happened security bounced her with no problems making this a low action incident.

Another excellent post.

338 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:52:59pm
But nothing justifies the head-stomping; Valle was curled up in a fetal position and wasn’t going anywhere, and Rand Paul was long gone. At that point it became an assault.

So it was a disproportionate response? I'm not so sure. In my mind, once you exit the realm of civilized behavior, all bets are off on how the general public will treat you. I've seen people get their asses kicked way worse for less.

339 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:08pm

re: #292 Stanley Sea

MoveOn = Squeaky Fromme

Don't you forget it

I'm sure they are a pain in the ass. I have counterprotested across the street from San Francisco's least fine lefties.

340 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:17pm

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

This isn't about 'sympathy' for her.

Damn straight, it's about what legal, right and decent...and what happened to Valle after the professional security guys got her away from Paul's vehicle and the mob took over was none of those.

341 brookly red  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:18pm

Good American Pizza: Mushrooms, onions & peppers... meat if you must.

342 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:32pm

re: #338 Mich-again

That it happens doesn't mean that it's right that it happens.

343 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:49pm

re: #334 theheat

I never buy Amish anything, if I can help it. Some of the worst animal stewards in the nation, and some of the highest concentrations of puppy mills. Their livestock always show up at the midwest and NE auction houses, usually worn out, broken, half-starved, and abused. Fucking can't stand 'em, for that reason.

Their bacon is tremendously delicious. I don't know what they do with the pigs but I hope they don't stop it.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:51pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

I don't understand where they get that from. This woman was unarmed. Fromme had a gun.

But this woman could have had a gun! Therefore, they are justified in acting as though she DID have a gun!

//

345 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:53:56pm

re: #334 theheat

I never buy Amish anything, if I can help it. Some of the worst animal stewards in the nation, and some of the highest concentrations of puppy mills. Their livestock always show up at the midwest and NE auction houses, usually worn out, broken, half-starved, and abused. Fucking can't stand 'em, for that reason.

Then don't buy an Amana fridge...... I hear they make all the tubing out of puppy intestines.

346 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:54:02pm

re: #330 Mr Pancakes

Well you scared me for a moment until I saw the sarc tag... phew.

Oh my friend..Homerun Giants...No sarc..I only eat veggie pizza with extra pineapples on it...That's how I roll.... 8-2 Giants! This is a great night

347 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:54:08pm

re: #332 CuriousLurker

What I'm referring to is a couple of seconds in the original stomping video where Profitt had a certain out of control adrenaline-laden look in his eyes. It is unmistakable and unforgattable if you've ever seen it up close & personal. Whether it was due to fear or rage or a little bit of both I can't say, but it a very, very dangerous thing.

Don't misunderstand me- I agree with your assessment. My point is that ugly does not reside at a single address.

Readers may infer that (or worse, wish) that it did.

348 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:54:14pm

re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist

People from MoveOn are nothing special to me.

People who stomp on the heads of those who are no threat to them, however, are rather special to me.

Ditto, I have no love for MoveOn but these people acted like monsters here. You can really hurt and possibly kill someone if you stomp on them. They showed a complete disregard for her. They should have jsut let the professionals do their job.

349 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:54:22pm

holy shit this debate.

Foot on neck being justified.

350 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:54:40pm

re: #74 JustaDummy

Wow, you lived up to your nick...and now you're gone like a fart in the wind, courtesy of Stinky.

/buh-bye now

351 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:54:48pm

re: #302 researchok

You have to be careful with those kinds of generalizations.

For example, do you want to conjecture what the thugs who beat up on the middle aged black man at the Tea Party rally thinking?

This is a pot that need not be stirred, in my opinion.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

352 harry91  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:55:14pm

Killgore you are correct in almost every way. It's the headstomp, that the kicker.

An idiot can be an idiot, and she was, but that foot to the head, that's the headline.

I don't support her actions, I don't support her crazy way of doing what she did.

But in the end it's that picture of the guys foot on her head / shoulder pushing down, that stays with me.

353 researchok  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:55:34pm

re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist

People from MoveOn are nothing special to me.

People who stomp on the heads of those who are no threat to them, however, are rather special to me.

Again, i'm not disagreeing with you in the least.

My concern is that we have to be careful to treat all victims as equal. not just a selected few.

354 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:55:53pm

re: #350 talon_262

I wonder which stalker it was actually. It's not like he wasn't obvious.

355 theheat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:56:25pm

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

re: #345 Mr Pancakes

I don't think animal abuse as farming practice, or animal husbandry, is any more noble than human abuse. Your mileage apparently varies.

356 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:56:25pm

re: #314 Killgore Trout

They knew she was a lefty but they didn't hassle her. She ran at the car and they moved her away. They stepped in after her second attempt. It was her behavior that brought this on. If it was her ideology they would have tackled her as soon as they learned she was a lefty. Maybe even after her first attempt.
If she had stood there where Paul was shaking hands with people and showed her sign when he came by this probably wouldn't have happened.

Her behavior was nowhere near what it would take to incite that kind of response in decent people.

357 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:56:32pm

re: #349 Stanley Sea

holy shit this debate.

Foot on neck being justified.

Yeah that is about where I am at. It is boggling my mind.

358 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:56:39pm

re: #345 Mr Pancakes

Then don't buy an Amana fridge... I hear they make all the tubing out of puppy intestines.

Yeah, buy a fridge made in China. The tubing is made out of puppy and kitteh and political prisoner intestines.

359 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:57:43pm

re: #349 Stanley Sea

holy shit this debate.

Foot on neck being justified.

In the good ole USA politics! Patriots!

I'm disgusted. And actually I place blame on Sister Sarah and John McCain for riling up the fearful.

This is the result.

360 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:57:55pm

re: #333 LudwigVanQuixote


I can just imagine the authoritarian prick who wrote that gets some serious wood when he watches the video.

His automatic assumption that she is a Marxist and that she therefore deserves to be violently subjugated by police is fascinating in a creepy, sickening way.

361 darthstar  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:58:16pm

Now THAT'S what a fucking call a good inning!

362 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:09pm

re: #355 theheat

re: #345 Mr Pancakes

I don't think animal abuse as farming practice, or animal husbandry, is any more noble than human abuse. Your mileage apparently varies.

I don't mind if you don't buy their meats. That's just more for me to buy.

363 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:19pm

re: #361 darthstar

Now THAT'S what a fucking call a good inning!

Yeah that was impressive. Giants gained a whole lot of confidence by getting to LEe. They were patient against a very accurate pitcher which is hard to do.

364 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:34pm

re: #355 theheat

re: #345 Mr Pancakes

I don't think animal abuse as farming practice, or animal husbandry, is any more noble than human abuse. Your mileage apparently varies.

Chill dude..... no animals were harmed by posting on this blog.

365 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:51pm

Good night, lizerds. I'm turning the computer back over to the sweetie so she can do her homework.

366 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 6:59:57pm

re: #358 Alouette

Yeah, buy a fridge made in China. The tubing is made out of puppy and kitteh and political prisoner intestines.

And it's welded with lead.

367 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:00:10pm
.....Splodgeguzzler.....

Wow, another overly anti homsexually tinged insult regarding bodily fluids.... more shocking that knocking Cliff Lee out in the 5th inning.

368 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:00:12pm

All this talk of food is making me hungry for ballpark food. ANd I hear it's really good in San Fran too.

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:00:19pm

re: #338 Mich-again

So it was a disproportionate response? I'm not so sure. In my mind, once you exit the realm of civilized behavior, all bets are off on how the general public will treat you. I've seen people get their asses kicked way worse for less.

I've spent time at a lot of rallies in my life. I have seen people get restrained, arrested, occasionally punched. I have never seen anything like this in my life except in a gang fight between teenage boys.

It was a disproportionate response. Anyone who can't watch someone get up in the face of a politician without stomping on their head has no business being at any political event.

370 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:00:19pm

re: #342 Obdicut

That it happens doesn't mean that it's right that it happens.


Oh of course its not right. But sometimes theres going to be some idiot who crosses the line in response to the hey everyone, look at me! contrarian. Whats the chance that a Red Sox fan would get a beer dumped on them in Yankees Stadium when they stood up to cheer a home run? Greater than zero I'm sure.

371 harry91  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:00:59pm

Hey, the blame the victim defence seems to be cathcing on!

[Link: wcco.com...]

A prominent Twin Cities lawyer accused of raping a teenager plans to use an unusual defense when his trial begins.

Aaron Biber's lawyers have asked the judge in the case to allow a picture of the boy dressed as Adolf Hitler into evidence.

Biber's lawyer claims it was the teen, not Biber who was in control of the relationship.

372 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:01:15pm

re: #370 Mich-again

This has nothing to do with a beer being dumped on anyone.

These are certins pulling a woman down to the curb and stomping on her head.

373 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:02:26pm

re: #371 harry91

Hey, the blame the victim defence seems to be cathcing on!

[Link: wcco.com...]

A prominent Twin Cities lawyer accused of raping a teenager plans to use an unusual defense when his trial begins.

Aaron Biber's lawyers have asked the judge in the case to allow a picture of the boy dressed as Adolf Hitler into evidence.

Biber's lawyer claims it was the teen, not Biber who was in control of the relationship.

Wow, that's one of hte most crazy defenses I've ever seen.

374 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:02:56pm

re: #347 researchok

Don't misunderstand me- I agree with your assessment. My point is that ugly does not reside at a single address.

Readers may infer that (or worse, wish) that it did.

Yes, unfortunately ugly resides in every single one of us. It's part of our biology. That's why I think the current rhetoric is so damned dangerous & irresponsible. Did you read the page I posted the other day about the interview with the guy who talked about the psychology of political ads?

Seeing someone hold and shoot a gun on TV triggers a biological fight/flight response even though we know we're not in real danger from an image on TV—I feel myself every time I see one of them. It appears that Paul had security people surrounding him on all sides once he got out of the vehicle,The public has been fed this crap sandwich for months on end now, and I have no doubt it contributes to this kind of over the top reaction in a confusing crowd situation.

375 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:03:14pm

re: #372 Obdicut

This has nothing to do with a beer being dumped on anyone.

These are certins pulling a woman down to the curb and stomping on her head.

Bottom line for the defenders - she's MoveOn. That's all they needed.

Still disgusted

376 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:03:34pm

re: #350 talon_262

Wow, you lived up to your nick...and now you're gone like a fart in the wind, courtesy of Stinky.

/buh-bye now

Cool. Stinky was nice enough to gut and dress that troll, so I'll grill it now. Troll Roast in 25.

377 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:03:38pm

re: #353 researchok

Again, i'm not disagreeing with you in the least.

My concern is that we have to be careful to treat all victims as equal. not just a selected few.

Believe me, I am not on this woman's side because of who she is. I have no affection for MoveOn, nor do I see her as a smart or valorous person.

I also don't know or care much about Rand Paul.

I do not think I am specially privileging anyone here.

People who take small women down to the curb and then concuss them by stomping on their heads are bad. I really do not see how this is a partisan position.

378 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:04:09pm

re: #360 celticdragon

I can just imagine the authoritarian prick who wrote that gets some serious wood when he watches the video.

His automatic assumption that she is a Marxist and that she therefore deserves to be violently subjugated by police is fascinating in a creepy, sickening way.

Exactly.

379 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:04:38pm

re: #368 HappyWarrior

All this talk of food is making me hungry for ballpark food. ANd I hear it's really good in San Fran too.

I heard the hot dogs served there use puppy intestines for the casing.
//

380 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:04:59pm

re: #371 harry91

Hey, the blame the victim defence seems to be cathcing on!

[Link: wcco.com...]

A prominent Twin Cities lawyer accused of raping a teenager plans to use an unusual defense when his trial begins.

Aaron Biber's lawyers have asked the judge in the case to allow a picture of the boy dressed as Adolf Hitler into evidence.

Biber's lawyer claims it was the teen, not Biber who was in control of the relationship.

Blink. Blink.

381 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:05:17pm

re: #353 researchok

Again, i'm not disagreeing with you in the least.

My concern is that we have to be careful to treat all victims as equal. not just a selected few.

Was there another victim in this case that I'm unaware of? That's not sarcasm, it's a serious question.

382 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:06:00pm

re: #360 celticdragon

I can just imagine the authoritarian prick who wrote that gets some serious wood when he watches the video.

His automatic assumption that she is a Marxist and that she therefore deserves to be violently subjugated by police is fascinating in a creepy, sickening way.

No different from the darkest days of every country we love love love to hate

383 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:07:07pm

G'night peeps.

384 webevintage  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:07:23pm

Does this change the perception of the incident?

No.
The "crowd control" dudes knew who she was (they had already seen her at a few rallys and knew she was with Moveon) knew what she wanted to do (mock and shame Paul) and knew that she was not dangerous...plus Rand's security handled her just fine.

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:08:39pm

re: #384 webevintage

Does this change the perception of the incident?

No.
The "crowd control" dudes knew who she was (they had already seen her at a few rallys and knew she was with Moveon) knew what she wanted to do (mock and shame Paul) and knew that she was not dangerous...plus Rand's security handled her just fine.

The professionals are very professional. They hardly break step, just grab and move, and there she is, back in the crowd.

386 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:09:01pm

re: #384 webevintage

Does this change the perception of the incident?

No.
The "crowd control" dudes knew who she was (they had already seen her at a few rallys and knew she was with Moveon) knew what she wanted to do (mock and shame Paul) and knew that she was not dangerous...plus Rand's security handled her just fine.

But still, it didn't change the partisan perception.

Troubling. Yes.

387 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:09:51pm

re: #300 Killgore Trout

If she were an overzealous fan the procedure should have been the same. Police should have held her for a moment, ask her a few questions, maybe give her a quick pat down, tell her to calm down. The police should have dealt with this.

No. OK, I can see what you're thinking, but ask yourself the critical question:
What arrest-worthy action did she do?

The police are in a crowd. The situation is tense as there are a LOT of people, they are in two opposed camps. You've received at least one "concerned citizen" statement, and there's been some yelling going on.

There are a hundred potential powderkegs, the target is HERE, and you're going to pull off for something that's not enough for an arrest? .... ok.

388 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:10:01pm

Despite the technical issues or security and morality Paul won't suffer much political fallout from this. There's been some bad press but normal nonpartisan Kentucky voters who see this new video will see her running around like a maniac. Politically it's going to be a wash.

389 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:10:29pm

Is this tu quoque?

But when the anti Bush tee-shirt wearers were tossed out, were THEY BLAMED?

probably.

390 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:12:21pm

re: #369 SanFranciscoZionist

I have never seen anything like this in my life except in a gang fight between teenage boys.

Thats the type of situation I was remembering when I've seen some loud-mouth get beat up, either in a bar or a big crowd. It happens. Doesn't make it right and I'm not defending it. Its assault and the guy should be charged in my mind.

391 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:13:18pm

re: #314 Killgore Trout

They knew she was a lefty but they didn't hassle her. She ran at the car and they moved her away. They stepped in after her second attempt. It was her behavior that brought this on. If it was her ideology they would have tackled her as soon as they learned she was a lefty. Maybe even after her first attempt.
If she had stood there where Paul was shaking hands with people and showed her sign when he came by this probably wouldn't have happened.

We get it already what she did was a little kooky.

But once again, does anyone who is non violently expressing the political opinions in this nation deserve or even come close to desreve getting a concussion for their troubles?

392 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:13:54pm

re: #387 kirkspencer

No. OK, I can see what you're thinking, but ask yourself the critical question:
What arrest-worthy action did she do?


No arrest. Just a simple and quick detainment would have been enough. If they had held her for just 30 seconds or so, ask her a question or two, get a feel for what she's up to would have allowed Paul to go into the event without her second attempt. I don't think charges or citations were needed but they should have detained her briefly. She was pretty clearly out of control and it would have defused the situation.

393 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:14:10pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Despite the technical issues or security and morality Paul won't suffer much political fallout from this. There's been some bad press but normal nonpartisan Kentucky voters who see this new video will see her running around like a maniac. Politically it's going to be a wash.

What's wrong with Kentucky?

Paul should have to fire that asshole, next question?

394 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:14:49pm

re: #393 jamesfirecat

What's wrong with Kentucky?

Paul should have to fire that asshole, next question?

I think firing him was the smart thing to do.

395 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:15:55pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Despite the technical issues or security and morality Paul won't suffer much political fallout from this. There's been some bad press but normal nonpartisan Kentucky voters who see this new video will see her running around like a maniac. Politically it's going to be a wash.

Concur. The people who really looked at the story will know better, but that's a minority of the voting public.

396 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:11pm

re: #392 Killgore Trout

How was she out of control, exactly?

She was trying to get close to him to get the sign near him.

How is that being 'out of control'?

397 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:16:12pm

re: #394 Killgore Trout

I think firing him was the smart thing to do.

Has he been fired?

Because otherwise its "would be the smart thing to do"

I haven't seen any signs that this guy is fired please, please please tell me was....

398 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:20:23pm

i'll say it again: it's not really about the "issues" or incidents like this - it's about what kind of a person you are

the "issues" that the baggers are getting filled up with by the right wing media are just rationalizations for them to be assholes, morons, and even, as we see from this stomping incident, semi-sociopathic bullies

they think they are promoting "freedom", "small government", "anti-elitism", and "morality", but in reality they are just being given licenses to hate

399 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:20:32pm

So was it worse than getting tazed by a cop?

400 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:20:56pm

Killgore - I've read most of this thread, and some of the previous one.

I always read your comments - I may not always agree, but golly gee - you're always logical, and usually right.

It's always a pleasure to be in a thread when you're on it, too.

401 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:21:32pm

I'm really tired, so I'm gonna call it a night. Have fun and try not to do any lasting damage to each other when the scales start flying. ;o)

*waves @ reine on the way out*

402 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:21:36pm

re: #399 Mich-again

Yep.

For three reasons:

1. A cop is a cop. They have special license to deal in violence. That's what they're for.

2. A taser, however problematic, really is less traumatic than physical restraint.

3. A taser doesn't stomp you on the fucking head.

403 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:21:39pm

re: #399 Mich-again

That's irrelevant. It's wrong for a man to strike a woman. Period. No exceptions. Unless your dramatically lacking in the testicle department.

404 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:21:51pm

re: #399 Mich-again

So was it worse than getting tazed by a cop?

You get tazed by a cop you're fine again in an hour or so...

Anybody here want to comment on how long a concussion lasts for?

405 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:22:00pm

re: #401 CuriousLurker

I'm really tired, so I'm gonna call it a night. Have fun and try not to do any lasting damage to each other when the scales start flying. ;o)

*waves @ reine on the way out*

{{CL}}
Good to see you, sorry you're leaving!
Mebbe tomorrow . . .

406 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:22:21pm

re: #396 Obdicut

How was she out of control, exactly?

She was trying to get close to him to get the sign near him.

How is that being 'out of control'?

Agreed. Out of control is the stuff I mentioned earlier - yelling, swinging, spitting, struggling, that sort of thing. She ran up and tried to pass a sign, didn't resist the bounce, and left the threat zone.

And prior to Rand's arrival she did nothing to require action described. The sole reason for bracing her before was the concerned citizen alert which might have been a different problem.

It is not illegal to protest. Protesting can be restricted by advance coordination, but that was not done here. Anticipatory police action for something that /might/ happen is bad on a lot of levels.

407 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:22:40pm

re: #403 daddylawbucks

That's irrelevant. It's wrong for a man to strike a woman. Period. No exceptions. Unless your dramatically lacking in the testicle department.

Lets be fair, self defense is always a valid "exception".

408 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:23:11pm

re: #402 Obdicut

Yep.

For three reasons:

1. A cop is a cop. They have special license to deal in violence. That's what they're for.

2. A taser, however problematic, really is less traumatic than physical restraint.

3. A taser doesn't stomp you on the fucking head.

Don't taze me bro!

409 webevintage  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:23:31pm

And really, if the "crowd control" douchebags thought she might be a threat the proper thing to do would have been to point her out to the KY State Troopers before Rand Paul ever got there.

But whatever, Malkin will be looking at her counter tops soon and in the end it will be Valle's fault that she got her head stuck under Profit foot.
I hate when that happens...

410 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:23:43pm

re: #404 jamesfirecat

You get tazed by a cop you're fine again in an hour or so...

Anybody here want to comment on how long a concussion lasts for?

Concussions have permanent effects. Among these effects are a greater susceptibility to future concussions.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

411 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:24:06pm

re: #407 jamesfirecat

Lets be fair, self defense is always a valid "exception".

"Chloe, I'd never hit a woman. Unless she was coming at me with a bottle."
Ray: In Bruges

412 webevintage  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:24:33pm

re: #411 HappyWarrior

"Chloe, I'd never hit a woman. Unless she was coming at me with a bottle."
Ray: In Bruges

Great movie.

413 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:25:02pm

re: #407 jamesfirecat

There was no legitimate self defense or defense of others issue in this case. Perhaps in a very rare instance it may apply, but not here. This was outright bullying because the men involved knew they were far larger and stronger so they had no danger of being struck back. We have a word for that in Los Angeles --- COWARDS

414 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:25:07pm

re: #402 Obdicut
I agree with you. At least if a cop did something like that, it would be a person in authority and not a vigilante from a mob. Now, I'm lucky enough that I've neither had my head stomped on, nor have I ever been tazed and I want to keep my record going.

415 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:26:07pm

re: #412 webevintage

Great movie.

Yeah one of my favorites. Wasn't big on Colin Farrell before I saw that but the chemistry he had with Brendao Gleeson and Ralph Finnes in that film was awesome. Definitely one of my favorite films of the past few years.

416 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:27:11pm

re: #413 daddylawbucks

There was no legitimate self defense or defense of others issue in this case. Perhaps in a very rare instance it may apply, but not here. This was outright bullying because the men involved knew they were far larger and stronger so they had no danger of being struck back. We have a word for that in Los Angeles --- COWARDS

I'm not saying it was self defense.

I just feel that saying

" That's irrelevant. It's wrong for a man to strike a woman. Period. No exceptions. Unless your dramatically lacking in the testicle department."

Oversimplifies things.
I will never look down on a man who defend himself from a woman who attacks him violently.

The woman in this case obviously didn't attack anyone violently however....

417 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:28:13pm

re: #403 daddylawbucks

That's irrelevant. It's wrong for a man to strike a woman. Period. No exceptions. Unless your dramatically lacking in the testicle department.

And here, I switch slightly. There are reasons for a man to strike a woman, which are pretty much the same as any RIGHT reason for striking another man. Right reasons include self-defense and life-and-limb protection of others. They do not include dislike of political position, sports team, or choice of beer, much less kicking down because you were kicked.

I believe it's unfair to both the woman and the man to treat a woman as something different just because she's a woman.

418 Max  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:30:51pm
Does this change the perception of the incident? In one way, it does; it makes it understandable that people tried to restrain her. It could possibly even justify wrestling her to the ground; I don’t think so myself, but I see how the point could be argued.

But nothing justifies the head-stomping; Valle was curled up in a fetal position and wasn’t going anywhere, and Rand Paul was long gone. At that point it became an assault.

Not many bloggers have this kind of moral clarity. I thank you for your levelheadedness, Charles.

419 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:31:42pm

re: #405 reine.de.tout

Hello, you!
Hope all is well?
*waves*

420 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:34:55pm

re: #417 kirkspencer

OK, not all women are smaller and less strong than men, but in general they tend to be. And in the case in point....this lady was tiny in comparison. The taser analogy is not relevant because bringing a weapon into the fight does change a lot of the equation. Besides, police conduct and mob conduct are quite two different issues. Remember in my home town, the cops can "treat you like a King" for any reason or no reason at all.

421 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:02pm

I just watched the video. In no way does her actions justify someone stomping on her - not even close.

It's real easy for a large crowd to contain a single person - all they had to do was to stand around her.

The reason the Paul supporters acted thuggishly is because, well, they're thugs.

422 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:35:18pm

re: #404 jamesfirecat

You get tazed by a cop you're fine again in an hour or so...

Anybody here want to comment on how long a concussion lasts for?

Jay Cutler was sidelined for a week after suffering one this football season. In extreme cases they can result in brain damage.

423 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:36:22pm

re: #417 kirkspencer

I believe it's unfair to both the woman and the man to treat a woman as something different just because she's a woman.

Allow me to amend that slightly - there are slight differences that sometimes matter a lot. Vive le difference.

424 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:36:56pm

re: #423 kirkspencer

I agree with that 100%!

425 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:39:32pm

re: #403 daddylawbucks

That's irrelevant. It's wrong for a man to strike a woman. Period. No exceptions. Unless your dramatically lacking in the testicle department.

I disagree with the no exceptions part.

426 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:40:47pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Killgore - I've read most of this thread, and some of the previous one.

I always read your comments - I may not always agree, but golly gee - you're always logical, and usually right.

It's always a pleasure to be in a thread when you're on it, too.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

427 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:41:34pm

re: #420 daddylawbucks

You miss my point.

I hit men when sparring. When we line up coed, I hit the women too.

Outside the training I preferred to talk. If I had to get physical and I could do it without hitting - with a simple armlock, for instance - I preferred that. If I had to hit because the person was fast or armed or something else, I hit. I haven't done that sort of thing in a long time, but when it was necessary I didn't care about gender.

A sub-5 foot sub-100 pound unarmed person is easier to deal with regardless of gender.

428 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:44:34pm

re: #427 kirkspencer

Ok, I see your point. But would you will agree that in the "normal case" where there is a substantial size and strength advantage to the man, it's just wrong to engage in violence outside of self defense or training of some sort?

429 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #419 Floral Giraffe

Hello, you!
Hope all is well?
*waves*

{{FLO}}
How's it goin'?

430 Sergeant Major  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:48:08pm

re: #51 Obdicut

I watched your video and did not see one person run/walk toward Lewis with a sign and try to place/put or throw it in his face. I also heard them yelling Kill the Bill..I hope you weren't insinuating that they meant kill in any other manner.
She deserved to be restrained but by the minimal amount of force required. The stomp was an assault and the "dickhead" should have been arrested. The police were there, you would have to ask them why he wasn't.

431 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:50:30pm

re: #428 daddylawbucks

Absolutely.

My core point is simple. If the only reason you're not hitting her is because she's a woman:
a) your reasons for hitting are wrong; or
b) your sexism, though noble, is in many ways worse.

Or so stands my opinion.

432 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:51:13pm

re: #430 Sergeant Major

I watched your video and did not see one person run/walk toward Lewis with a sign and try to place/put or throw it in his face.

I didn't say they did, did I?

I also heard them yelling Kill the Bill..I hope you weren't insinuating that they meant kill in any other manner.

I insinuated just what I said-- that there was a huge amount of hate in that crowd, and that as far as 'potential' for violence, that crowd had more of it than this woman did.

You'll find I generally say exactly what I mean.

She deserved to be restrained but by the minimal amount of force required.

For what did she 'deserve' to be restrained? I think it would have been wise and cautious for a cap to stop her and talk to her. But what made her 'deserve' it?

The stomp was an assault and the "dickhead" should have been arrested. The police were there, you would have to ask them why he wasn't.

He's been given a summons now.

433 JRCMYP  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:59:44pm

It's like what I always say to my kids:

"I understand why you were angry, but that doesn't mean you can put your hands on him and hurt him."

Head-stomping guy needs to sit in a time out. Perhaps a legal one.

434 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:02:56pm

Do you think Sharon Angle is getting a good result from her ad at the top of this page?

435 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:03:48pm

re: #434 daddylawbucks

Do you think Sharon Angle is getting a good result from her ad at the top of this page?

Probably. Remember, a lot more people READ LGF than post here.

436 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:04:40pm

re: #435 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably. Remember, a lot more people READ LGF than post here.

Yeah, just checked - 2390 reading, 112 logged on.

437 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:04:45pm

re: #434 daddylawbucks

Do you think Sharon Angle is getting a good result from her ad at the top of this page?

I'm getting a Tom Perriello ad.

438 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:05:07pm

re: #435 SanFranciscoZionist

Please forgive me if I was a bit pushy the other day about lawschool..........

439 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:05:55pm

re: #437 NJDhockeyfan

I'm getting a Tom Perriello ad.

I've got O'Donnell, so apparently this is not regional.

440 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:42pm

re: #438 daddylawbucks

Please forgive me if I was a bit pushy the other day about lawschool...

Lord, no need to apologize. I appreciated getting everyone's perspective. I think I'm going to at least take the LSAT, and put in an application at a couple of local places.

441 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:06:44pm

Mine has something from Angle that says "help us stop Harry Reid".......and send lots of $$$

442 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:07:00pm

re: #439 SanFranciscoZionist

The super-sekrit mind-reading software from Google knows what you really want...

443 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:07:38pm

"Christine in 2010. Restore America's voice."

She really is very, very pretty. And she looks about thirty.

444 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:08:00pm

re: #442 freetoken

The super-sekrit mind-reading software from Google knows what you really want...

I think it's picking up my husband. He thinks O'Donnell is hot.

445 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:08:37pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm.... maybe there's something wrong with my testosterone levels?

446 jaunte  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:09:06pm

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

"Christine in 2010. Restore America's voice."

She really is very, very pretty. And she looks about thirty.

Well, she's barely used her top end.

447 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:09:31pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

that witchcraft thing might be kinky......

448 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:12:03pm

I got a robo call today. I said 'Hello' and the next thing I hear is 'Hi, this is Pat Boone! I'm here to talk to you about'...CLICK. I didn't even let him get to the punch line.

449 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:12:41pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's picking up my husband. He thinks O'Donnell is hot.

Hot? No, she is adorable though.

450 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:16:34pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's picking up my husband. He thinks O'Donnell is hot.

If the timing was right and she wasn't so out of touch with things, I'd happily have a drink with her. Her whacky beliefs aside, I find her to be very pretty.

451 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:19:51pm

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

"Christine in 2010. Restore America's voice."

She really is very, very pretty. And she looks about thirty.

True. And the fact that her views are seriously off-base makes the beauty somewhat jarring.

452 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:23:07pm

re: #451 Dark_Falcon

True. And the fact that her views are seriously off-base makes the beauty somewhat jarring.

I never let politics affect my decision about who I dated. I dated women who leaned on both sides and they were all fantastic ladies.

453 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:28:56pm

re: #429 reine.de.tout

{{FLO}}
How's it goin'?

I'm fantasizing about K Paul's dirty rice.
All is well here, except for the rice!
LOL!

454 CarleeCork  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:32:56pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's picking up my husband. He thinks O'Donnell is hot.


Talk about low expectations!

455 CarleeCork  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:34:37pm

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

"Christine in 2010. Restore America's voice."

She really is very, very pretty. And she looks about thirty.


Damn, again let's talk about low standards.

My cat shits turds prettier than her.

456 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:36:40pm
457 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:39:54pm

re: #455 CarleeCork

Dude/Dudette...

That's rather crude.

She's not unattractive, but she puts out a strange vibe. Unlike her mentor Esther (who does the naughty librarian look quite well), Christine still seems like someone you'd find behind a McDonald's counter.

458 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:40:48pm

re: #456 MinisterO

depends. do you think Christine O'Donnell is hot?

459 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:41:56pm

re: #456 MinisterO

Next time some crazy white woman comes towards me with sign I hope one of you guys will throw her to the ground and kick her in the head. I can count on you guys, right?

You can count on us to hold you down while she punches you in the gut "pal"

460 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:42:08pm

re: #455 CarleeCork

Damn, again let's talk about low standards.

My cat shits turds prettier than her.

I think she's a very pretty woman. Crazy as hell, but pretty.

461 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:42:40pm

re: #455 CarleeCork

re: #456 MinisterO

So, you think kicking a woman in the head is OK?
WTF?

462 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:45:11pm

After watching how Bristol has been changing on DWTS, perhaps the best thing Christine can do (after she loses next week) is to try and get on next season's DWTS?

463 CarleeCork  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:49:13pm

Pretty is as pretty does. She's an ugly human being.

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:49:32pm

re: #463 CarleeCork

Pretty is as pretty does. She's an ugly human being.

No argument there.

465 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:55:32pm

is she ahead in the polls?

466 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:57:44pm

re: #465 daddylawbucks

is she ahead in the polls?

O'Donnell? No.

467 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:59:20pm

re: #466 SanFranciscoZionist

Good. And hopefully we escape from Meg and Carly here at home.

468 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:59:24pm

re: #466 SanFranciscoZionist

O'Donnell? No.

And even Dick Morris and Bill O'Reilly have written her off.

469 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:01:06pm

re: #461 Floral Giraffe

re: #456 MinisterO

So, you think kicking a woman in the head is OK?
WTF?

MinisterO was being sarcastic, he didn't use a tag and did paint with a broad brush, but that was sarcasm. Clearly many of us do not think it's OK. Here's what's interesting though, you updinged Kilgore's utter lack of concern about the concussion the woman received, a completely earnest sentiment. This is LGF conservative tribalism at it's finest, an established voice displays a cold, callous disregard for a woman's well being and is updinged by the same person who conveniently cannot grok clear and present sarcasm when it comes from a liberal direction.

470 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:03:22pm

re: #469 goddamnedfrank

I couldn't discern the sarcasm.

471 deranged cat  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:06:15pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Zombie guards, SEIZE HIM!
Tell me that's not fun to say!
- Mentok the Mind Taker


Harvey Birdman Attorney At Law FTW! such a great show, so political and hilarious. and Stephen Colbert for amazing voice acting!

472 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:06:21pm

re: #470 eclectic infidel

I couldn't discern the sarcasm.

You have to be really bitter to get it, an acquired taste I admit. Also reading MinisterO's past comments helps put it in perspective.

473 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:06:39pm

re: #469 goddamnedfrank

Keep your Inspector Javert routine away from Floral, Frank.

474 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:11:10pm

Since the election is just next week, forgive me but I have to plug two of the Judges running here in California: Victoria Chaney and Paul Coffee are both excellent people, and do an exceptional job on the bench. Please vote to confirm both of them.

475 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:15:18pm

re: #474 daddylawbucks

I'm planning on going through my voter's guide in the next day or two to note my votes... but there are so many of these non-political offices that I can't sort all the good apples from the bad.

476 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:18:29pm

It has occurred to me how the MoveOn folks could have done the smart and funny thing with this, rather than the stupid and dangerous thing.

Make an official looking award plaque, mail it to the Paul campaign HQ along with a very official sounding award letter. In the letter, add a polite request for Paul to take a picture holding the plaque and send it back so the fake corp. can use it in their corporate news letter.

If he does, they could post the pic on their website with a "Ha ha, what a fool".

Even better, wait for the name of the fake corp to show up in an "endorsed by" ad or list on the Paul website, and get in an even funnier "Ha ha, what a fool" dig.

I have no common cause with MoveOn, and I honestly can't stand them (same goes for Paul, BTW). But if they were able to pull off a stunt like that, even I would have to grudgingly give them credit for a prank well played.

477 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:18:51pm

re: #475 freetoken

I generally don't vote for a republican, but Judge Chaney is an exception. I had a lot of cases in her court a couple years ago. My opponents agreed she is head and shoulders smarter than most of us and works her ass off. Paul Coffee is also an excellent Judge, both are very hard working.

478 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:19:45pm

re: #473 Dark_Falcon

Keep your Inspector Javert routine away from Floral, Frank.

I just think it's really weird and pathological that you express so much concern about women when you support a candidate who is objectively pro rapist, and a lizard who affirms his definitive lack of any concern for one who suffered a concussion in a violent gang assault.

479 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:37:50pm

re: #469 goddamnedfrank

You have the time & energy to do all of that?
WOW.
Good luck to you.

480 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:40:01pm

re: #478 goddamnedfrank

You are just out there, so very far.
I hope you get the help that you need.

481 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:49:23pm

re: #469 goddamnedfrank

Killgore and Floral are conservative tribalists? Where the fuck was I when that happened?

I know, this must be some alternate dimension or something. Don't tell me, in this reality, Reine.De.Tout is a militant atheist, Curious Lurker is a hard core Pam Geller fan, and LVQ is a rabid creationist and AGW denier.

482 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 9:54:57pm

re: #481 Slumbering Behemoth

Killgore and Floral are conservative tribalists? Where the fuck was I when that happened?

I know, this must be some alternate dimension or something. Don't tell me, in this reality, Reine.De.Tout is a militant atheist, Curious Lurker is a hard core Pam Geller fan, and LVQ is a rabid creationist and AGW denier.

It's Frank's way. He's a purist and can't let go of what he feels to be people's errors in judgment. I'm mostly ignoring him at this point.

483 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:04:15pm

re: #482 Dark_Falcon

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Killgore and Floral are conservative tribalists. lolwtfbbq?

484 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:05:06pm

re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist

People from MoveOn are nothing special to me.

People who stomp on the heads of those who are no threat to them, however, are rather special to me.

Extra special to me because my wife was once assaulted in that fashion, one on one, during a home invasion burglary. Happily, one on one, women can fight back, and if the dice fall right, win. Winning, here, is coming out of the fight without any serious injuries. The attacker is welcome to fade the scene.

The current incident is less serious in one way, because the guys doing the stomping weren't going for head-rattling, bone-breaking kicks. That she got a concussion is a bit of a surprise, and probably it was a result of the takedown. I've hit the ground hard with my head, while wearing a bicycle helmet, and it still rings your bell a bit.

But it's more serious in another way. This isn't the work of some random garden variety criminal. It's a team job by a team that really ought to have known better, to have trained for contingencies, and to have had always in mind the limits to the lawful use of force. Their neglect of that duty set up their actions at the time. Someone taken unawares and engulfed in a fight may perhaps get carried away. Those who know they may be in for a fight, in the line of duty, must practice so that if it comes to a fight, their habits will guide them.

The folks at the top must set the tone. The LAPD had a reputation for going over the line, and that reputation endured because there was no iron determination at the top to hold the rank and file accountable. The buck stops at the top. Set the tone, or take the blame.

485 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:17:36pm

The face of political assassination is often "unassuming." And it comes from all sides of the political spectrum.

Squeaky Fromme
Sirhan Sirhan
Mark David Chapman
John Hinckley
Arthur Bremer

And for a woman who shows up in baggy clothes, a really crappy wig, and is acting suspicious about trying to get in real close to a candidate? I'd be concerned too.

As for the rest, we have to remember that the whole "try to present Rand Paul with a fake award" cover story could be just that, a cover story. It's just as likely that she was following the Saul Alinsky "Rules for Radicals" approach to deliberately try to start or provoke violence merely to discredit the other side - in other words, that she was really paid by Moveon to try to cause a riot or a fight.

In which case, well, she succeeded.

I kept finding it interesting that until we got this video, all the other videos put forth were not showing anything before the moment her wig was pulled off. Why would they do that? Surely her Moveon.org buddies who were doing the videotaping had more recorded. The only reason to cut their videos off prior to that point is that it shows something they don't want us to see, like her attempts to start the fight that ends up where we all know it ended.

As to the fact that she's a paid operative - doesn't mean much by itself, but the fact that she's a paid operative who quite deliberately disregarded the police lines that were keeping Paul and Conway supporters separate, and even disguised herself to try to slip into the Paul crowd, again indicates that there's more here than her mere cover story indicates.

486 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:23:50pm

re: #485 ZetaC

I think you're engaging in quite a bit of speculation there, and it almost sounds as though you have not watched the videos in question.

I wouldn't put it past a member of MoveOn, or a member of the Tea Party for that matter, to do just as you describe. However, I will not jump to such conclusions without sufficient evidence to bear it out as fact.

487 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:24:50pm

re: #485 ZetaC


And for a woman who shows up in baggy clothes,...

BAGGY CLOTHES!!!

488 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:27:38pm

re: #487 freetoken

I mean, really? Everyone knows spies and assassins wear sexy, skin tight, wet wear.
/

489 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:31:29pm

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

I've watched the videos, many times. This one, for instance, is the kicker for me:

In it, when the camera swings, it's pretty clear that the reason the fight started is that she's trying to charge through the crowd to get to Rand Paul, who has his back turned to her. One of Paul's security is pointing her out shouting "this lady, this lady, whoa whoa", and then other people are shouting for the police , asking "where the police at" and "get the cops out here."

These aren't the screams of someone wanting her beat down. These are the screams of someone afraid she's intent on doing someone harm.

490 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:33:29pm

re: #488 Slumbering Behemoth

I mean, really? Everyone knows spies and assassins wear sexy, skin tight, wet wear.
/

Heh

491 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:40:27pm

re: #488 Slumbering Behemoth


In it, when the camera swings, it's pretty clear that the reason the fight started is that she's trying to charge through the crowd to get to Rand Paul...

I'm sorry, that clip does not make it clear, "pretty" or otherwise. Hell, the clip in the OP is more damning than that one. Though that vid you link does make it pretty clear that Profitt needlessly and disgustingly used his foot to squash her head into the ground while she was already pretty well restrained.

492 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:43:44pm

re: #490 freetoken

I was thinking of something more like this, but you had to go and link the picture you did?

I hate you now. We're not friends anymore.
/

493 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:44:24pm

re: #406 kirkspencer

Actually, she did one major thing: she crossed the picket lines that were supposed to be guarded by the police.

The police had set up - as often happens - lines to keep Conway supporters on one side of the street and Paul supporters on the other. This is commonly done to separate crowds when there are heated, opposing viewpoints, and it's done specifically to try to prevent riots and fights from breaking out when emotions are high. The picket lines constitute a lawfully given order by police for reasons of public safety, and crossing over to the other side's area IS grounds for arrest for disturbance of peace and incitement of riot.

When someone breaks the police line separating the crowds, especially under disguise, it's an indicator that they are there to cause trouble. I'm not willing to give her "there to present a sign" excuse much credit after watching the video I linked above; it seems far more likely to me that she was paid to start a fight, any way she could think of to do so.

494 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:49:53pm

re: #491 Slumbering Behemoth

Why, then, do you think a man in security uniform is pointing her out and asking people to stop her?

Go frame by frame, starting at 0:09. The security guys are calling her out before anyone touches her, and she is clearly trying to rush through the crowd to get to the candidate.

Her actions are not remotely Kosher. Or even Halal. Or whatever other weird religious dietary restriction you subscribe to.

495 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:51:12pm

re: #493 ZetaC

I think she was just there to be a pest. And even if she was there to get into a fight, that still doesn't justify the man who stomped on her head. It was brutal and entirely unneeded. Sorry, but the Paulians are in the wrong here.

496 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:54:49pm

If she was there to start a fight/riot, it changes things considerably.

Should she have had her head stomped on? Probably not.

Would she care if she had actually started the riot she seems to have been intending to start, and someone was actually trampled or beaten to death? I'm willing to bet she wouldn't.

There is a reason incitement to riot is a serious crime, and she committed that offense the moment she crossed the police lines separating Paul and Conway supporters. And I would say the same had some redneck from the Paul camp crossed the street and tried a similar stunt on the other side.

497 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 10:57:35pm

re: #496 ZetaC

If she was there to start a fight/riot, it changes things considerably.

Should she have had her head stomped on? Probably not.

Would she care if she had actually started the riot she seems to have been intending to start, and someone was actually trampled or beaten to death? I'm willing to bet she wouldn't.

There is a reason incitement to riot is a serious crime, and she committed that offense the moment she crossed the police lines separating Paul and Conway supporters. And I would say the same had some redneck from the Paul camp crossed the street and tried a similar stunt on the other side.

Probably?! It's utterly clear that stomping her was wrong. Why even insert the qualifier?

498 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:05:30pm

re: #496 ZetaC

Hey shill

how's it going shill


who ya shillin' for shill?

499 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:07:28pm

re: #461 Floral Giraffe

re: #456 MinisterO

So, you think kicking a woman in the head is OK?
WTF?

You really didn't get the sarcasm?

Really?

Actually?

500 freetoken  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:10:27pm

re: #498 WindUpBird

501 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:11:28pm

re: #497 Dark_Falcon

Probably?! It's utterly clear that stomping her was wrong. Why even insert the qualifier?

Because absent a thousand other factors, there's a boot on her shoulder - not exactly her head - for less than a full second, and it doesn't really look like there is any weight there.

Further, the "concussion" claim is pretty thin. The usual diagnostic patterns - "slurred speech", headache/dizziness, confusion, nausea, and so on - are mostly subjective and something the doctors ask a patient to self-report. Absent someone actually having MRI'ed her skull for swelling, the claim is hard to take seriously, and she receives a harder shock to the head when she's put down to the ground and restrained than she does from having a boot on her shoulder for less than a second.

Is it rude? Yes. Was it needed? No. On a 1-10 scale of violence, where does it fall? Maybe 0.25 at most.

502 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:20:43pm

re: #494 ZetaC

Why, then, do you think a man in security uniform is pointing her out and asking people to stop her?

Security uniform? Very little of that man is in view for what few seconds he is in the frame. What little can be gleaned from that is that he's wearing a suit and tie. Not one single thing that is briefly visible identifies him as a security guard.

And seriously, what kind of security guard would simply point at someone and then allow a small mob to take charge? What kind of security guard would not move in to do what he was paid to do, and also stand by and allow what is seen in that scene?

I do not believe you are being an honest and objective actor here.

503 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:30:58pm

re: #501 ZetaC

Because absent a thousand other factors, there's a boot on her shoulder - not exactly her head - for less than a full second, and it doesn't really look like there is any weight there.

There was a sneaker on her shoulder, pressed downward, hitting her neck and pushing her head into the curb with some force. It is up to the MDs, that may or may not have examined her, to determine the injuries resulting from that force.

I now see, and have no doubt, that you are not being an honest and objective actor here.

I can see the valid points Killgore has made in this thread, no matter how unpopular. But it seems to me that you are intent on misrepresenting the event to create a certain narrative.

504 ZetaC  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:53:44pm

re: #502 Slumbering Behemoth

I do not believe you are being an honest and objective actor here.


Right back at you. You obviously are not being remotely honest in looking at the video footage.

And I point out again: crossing the police line separating Paul and Conway supporters, whether you like it or not, constitutes disturbance of the peace and incite to riot given that the police separation was a public safety order. Therefore, why is it so hard to understand my point that she had to know precisely what she was trying to do, and why I find it so hard to take her bullshit "present a fake award" cover story seriously?

505 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 27, 2010 11:56:59pm

re: #504 ZetaC


Right back at you. You obviously are not being remotely honest in looking at the video footage.

How so? Give examples.

506 ZetaC  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 12:01:08am

re: #387 kirkspencer

No. OK, I can see what you're thinking, but ask yourself the critical question:
What arrest-worthy action did she do?

The police are in a crowd. The situation is tense as there are a LOT of people, they are in two opposed camps. You've received at least one "concerned citizen" statement, and there's been some yelling going on.

It goes further than that. The police had actively cordoned off the two camps. Paul supporters were to be on one side of the street, Conway supporters on the other.

Crossing the police lines and going into the other side, against public safety orders, constitutes disturbance of the peace and incite to riot at minimum. Either of those is arrest-worthy just to start.

507 ZetaC  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 12:03:31am

re: #505 Slumbering Behemoth

How so? Give examples.


Even your fellows are willing to admit that she made a second attempt to charge Rand Paul after he exited his vehicle above. You're not even willing to admit that, apparently, despite the clear video evidence shown.

508 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 12:11:03am

re: #507 ZetaC

You seem to have made the mistake of skimming, and therefore are attributing to me stances that do not apply. You also fail to address how your assumptions have been refuted.

I suggest you read all the comments I've made on this thread and the one just beneath it, and then revisit my question as to how you think I've not been an honest and objective actor here. And if you have the capability, give real examples, rather than simple assumptions pulled out of thin air.

509 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 1:57:56am

re: #456 MinisterO

For the record, I knew you were being sarcastic.

510 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 3:25:43am

re: #501 ZetaC

Because absent a thousand other factors, there's a boot on her shoulder - not exactly her head - for less than a full second, and it doesn't really look like there is any weight there.

Further, the "concussion" claim is pretty thin. The usual diagnostic patterns - "slurred speech", headache/dizziness, confusion, nausea, and so on - are mostly subjective and something the doctors ask a patient to self-report. Absent someone actually having MRI'ed her skull for swelling, the claim is hard to take seriously, and she receives a harder shock to the head when she's put down to the ground and restrained than she does from having a boot on her shoulder for less than a second.

Is it rude? Yes. Was it needed? No. On a 1-10 scale of violence, where does it fall? Maybe 0.25 at most.


This is the most instant expert horseshit I've ever heard, you simply have no clue as to what you are talking about

511 boxhead  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 3:49:37am

re: #506 ZetaC

It goes further than that. The police had actively cordoned off the two camps. Paul supporters were to be on one side of the street, Conway supporters on the other.

Crossing the police lines and going into the other side, against public safety orders, constitutes disturbance of the peace and incite to riot at minimum. Either of those is arrest-worthy just to start.

Never been much of a fan when it comes to "free speech zones". I cannot see how they can be Constitutional. Now as far as the foot on head move, if it was an isolated act, I could chalk it up to one kook. But it seems that the loony Right is all about use of unjustified force. I'd love to see that happen in my neck of the woods......

512 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 3:55:16am

re: #499 WindUpBird

You really didn't get the sarcasm?

Really?

Actually?

I'm guessing it's really possible she didn't. However this probably has more to do with pure reflexive cliquishness than anything else, as an equally callous sentiment in non sarcastic form coming from Killgore met with official approval.

I'm just sick of how easy it got for some people to dehumanize this woman once they knew she was from MoveOn and was fucking around with a sign, and for other's to silently upding such a bullshit disregard for human life because it comes from a personality they like. Critical thinking has gone out the window in favor of rank hypocrisy.

513 ZetaC  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 4:41:32am

re: #511 boxhead

Never been much of a fan when it comes to "free speech zones". I cannot see how they can be Constitutional. Now as far as the foot on head move, if it was an isolated act, I could chalk it up to one kook. But it seems that the loony Right is all about use of unjustified force. I'd love to see that happen in my neck of the woods...

When they're separated by blocks and blocks like when happens during WTO times or when clowns like Ahmouddamygourd from Iran show up, I'd agree with you.

In this case, they're right across the street from each other. It's not a "free speech zone" thing as much a public safety, "keep two already agitated groups from intermixing and degenerating into a public riot when someone gets an accidental jostle from someone else wearing the other side's pin" thing.

514 ZetaC  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 4:42:57am

re: #512 goddamnedfrank

Critical thinking has gone out the window in favor of rank hypocrisy.

Critical thinking apparently went out the window years ago in favor of echo chambers and groupthink enforcement.

515 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 4:51:49am
516 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 5:04:45am

re: #513 ZetaC

Can you cite where you're getting this information from, anyway?

517 ZetaC  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 5:34:57am

re: #516 Obdicut

Be specific on what information you are asking for a source on, please, and I'll be happy to.

re: #515 goddamnedfrank

Isn't it nice to know that reasoned, honest, polite discourse is alive and well? </sarcasm>

518 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 5:36:38am

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

Out of curiosity, which former lizard is Iapyx? He just posted everything I have written for the past month and is trying lamely to argue about thermodynamics.

Iapyx is a sock-puppet worn by serial troll and Pajamaja's Media science contributor, Larry(snork) Reisinger. He is also wears the little pony tail sock.

519 ZetaC  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 6:12:16am

re: #508 Slumbering Behemoth

You seem to have made the mistake of skimming, and therefore are attributing to me stances that do not apply. You also fail to address how your assumptions have been refuted.

I have yet to see you post anything resembling a refutation. The closest you have come is to say that you "don't see" the same things I see in the video, probably because your own perception is tilted and colored to a desire to see something else.

Of course, you accuse me of doing the same thing. So please take it point by point and maybe we can have an honest discussion.

I suggest you read all the comments I've made on this thread and the one just beneath it, and then revisit my question as to how you think I've not been an honest and objective actor here. And if you have the capability, give real examples, rather than simple assumptions pulled out of thin air.

Let's see: at 179 you suggest that KT has made valid points - a brave enough act in this rampant echo chamber.
At 476 you suggest that the prank (which you still assume was not just a cover story) would have been better pulled off via mail or email.
481/483 are your questioning of goddamnedfrank's attack on two people, the same person who in 515 above showed his lack of maturity for all to see.
486, you accuse me of engaging in "speculation", which at its worst is no worse than anyone other in this echo chamber is doing. You also state your complete willingness to believe that Moveon or TP groupies would engage in the deliberate provocation or staging of an event like this for publicity's sake.
488/492: irrelevant discussion of spies in tight leather.
491, you claim that the clip I provided - showing her charging Rand Paul's back, and caught by crowd members who immediately begin screaming for police well before the stomp moment occurs - is not "clear."
503, you ignore every point I have made and instead jump straight to accusing me of being "intent on misrepresenting the event."
I tell you you are doing the same, and you challenge me to "give examples" in 505.
508, you accuse me of "skimming." So I have paraphrased each post I can find from you above. You also want me to analyze "this thread and the one just beneath it", by which I will presume you mean the "Curb Stomper wants an apology" thread and not the Keith Jarret's Lame Music thread and go there only to find... no posts from you at all. Maybe the "Right Wing bloggers on Stomping" thread? There you are.

At 28, you're calling it "insane" and asking "How the hell do you go from that to pinning her head down on a curb and stomping on it? Disgusting."
45, "Unnecessary and disturbing overkill."
49, your statement that it's not "IOKIYAR" (I wonder if you'd say the same for the IOKIYAD incidents that have been going on lately, especially by SEIU thugs?)
51 - you agreeing with someone from post 26 that "fascist wear" is "Tennis Shoes, Pocket Constitutions, and Little Gideons." Way to demonize and stereotype needlessly.
55 - you state "little confidence" that most Republicans are opposed to political violence.
55 is also your last post to that thread.

Now, please point out what you think I have missed. You are far less honest and debate-worthy in the other thread than here, seeming quite content merely to echo the groupthink of the thread. And I still can't give you credit for honest debate here.

520 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 6:17:59am

re: #517 ZetaC

That people were divided into two groups.

521 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 6:28:58am

ZetaC

Go look at the video Charles posted up top. Look at what's on the other side of the barrier. You will see both Rand Paul and Conway posters. When the camera swings to the near side you again see both Paul and Conway posters.

The barrier was not there to separate the camps. It was there to keep pedestrians out of the traffic lane so the candidates could move through.

Since that's a major support for your rash of posts, you might want to re-think your position.

522 reine.de.tout  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 6:34:23am

re: #481 Slumbering Behemoth

Killgore and Floral are conservative tribalists? Where the fuck was I when that happened?

I know, this must be some alternate dimension or something. Don't tell me, in this reality, Reine.De.Tout is a militant atheist, Curious Lurker is a hard core Pam Geller fan, and LVQ is a rabid creationist and AGW denier.

hahahaha!
*snicker*
*snort*
hahahaha!
I wish I'd been awake for this one . . .
LOL.

523 MinisterO  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 7:52:40am

re: #509 Obdicut

For the record, I knew you were being sarcastic.

How could it be anything else? I confess that I meant for it to be offensive to those tossing about the nuanced opinion that throwing a woman to the ground and kicking her in the head was kind of OK, just a little OK maybe, in this case.

524 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 8:20:41am

ZetaC - if it were your sister/mother/wife/daughter I bet you wouldn't be arguing your stupid line here.

Throwing around accusations of echo chamberiness doesn't amount to an argument either, and it's usually a sign of a pre-flouncer. Get it over with if you are going ...

525 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 8:29:11am

re: #524 Thanos

Throwing around accusations of echo chamberiness doesn't amount to an argument either, and it's usually a sign of a pre-flouncer. Get it over with if you are going ...

Looks like it already is ;)

526 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 8:32:48am

re: #525 publicityStunted

It smells real socky to me, I've seen that style of obfuscatory argumentation before.

527 ickenittle  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:06:48am

He has a medical issue-a bad back that keeps him from being able to bend down.This is why he needed to use his foot.

528 Bob.Stimeson  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:17:27am

jst sgnd p fr n ccnt ntndng t cmmnt, bt thnk 'd rthr nt bthr.

t's bvs tht hnst dscssn lng, lng g lft ths plc, rplcd by grpthnk nd rmpnt dlgcl nfrcmnt. s nmbr f nsghtfl psts "dngd dwn" whl fl-mthd ttcks r dngd p, nd t s bvs tht tryng t cntrbt t th dscssn s smply nt wrth my tm.

Chrls, f y vr dcd tht y wld lk t hv st whr rl, hnst, nsghtfl dscrs s wlcm, 'm sr y cld d t tht wy, rthr thn fnnng th flms f htrd nd nctmnt nd nm-cllng n yr vry pst nd th grpthnk f yr fllwrs.

529 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:17:48am

re: #525 publicityStunted

Looks like it already is ;)

Make a wish, everyone, it's a falling star.
/

530 Bob.Stimeson  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:23:42am

blv th strght-ff rsh t ttck m nd dwndng m hs prvn th pnt qt dmrbly.

Th dwnfll f dmcrcy hppns whn ppl cnnt ngg n hnst dbt nd dsgrmnt wtht nmcllng, vlfyng, nd ht-mngrng. Sdly, tht sms t b ll s hr.

531 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:24:59am

re: #530 Bob.Stimeson

LOL

Downding = downfall of democracy

532 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:27:29am

Thanks for the hasty cleanup. :)

533 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:29:05am

That was "ZetaC" back again with a sock puppet, using a proxy IP.

They think it's clever to pretend to be someone else.

534 joest73  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:44:51am

Good analysis Charles!....and KillGore...and others....it is in line with what I posted in your earlier post on this subject, not that it matters much:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Sad I missed the good discussion on this video. This is why I still come to LGF.
I may not agree with everything....but what is the fun of going over to HA and agreeing with everyone.

535 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:47:12am

re: #534 joest73

Bull shit!

You are here to troll.

536 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:48:24am

re: #523 MinisterO

How could it be anything else? I confess that I meant for it to be offensive to those tossing about the nuanced opinion that throwing a woman to the ground and kicking her in the head was kind of OK, just a little OK maybe, in this case.

Your sarcasm was really obvious, as was the cliquish faux concern for women from some who objected to it.

537 MinisterO  Thu, Oct 28, 2010 10:11:51am

re: #536 goddamnedfrank

Your sarcasm was really obvious, as was the cliquish faux concern for women from some who objected to it.

The response illustrates that the one thing a zealot cannot have is a sense of proportion.

Delta Foxtrot, folks? To read those words and take them at face value requires extraordinary gullibility.


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