PersonhoodUSA’s Radical, Fetal-Separatist Agenda

US News • Views: 6,527

One of the scariest social conservative concepts to come to fruition in the last 40 years is the so-called “Personhood” bill, which is actually on the ballot in Colorado, thanks to the Republican/Tea Party. The latest poll data suggests the bill will probably not pass, but it has a disturbing amount of support nonetheless.

Lynn Paltrow has a good piece on this issue, and its dangerous implications for women’s rights — because they’ll be back again even if they’re defeated in Colorado: PersonhoodUSA’s Radical, Fetal-Separatist Agenda.

Fetal separatists analogize fertilized eggs, embryos and fetuses to African-American slaves who were once� “denied their humanity” and “stripped [of] their personhood.” They suggest that their goal is simply continuing an American tradition of expanding membership in the population of Constitutional persons. But, in fact, fetal separatism, in the guise of adding one group to the Constitutional population will do something unprecedented in US history: subtract another.

When former slaves were added to the constitutional population, this did not in any way diminish the constitutional rights or personhood of any other people in the United States. Although slaveholders lost significant power and privilege to enslave, and exploit others, they did not lose anything in terms of their status as constitutional persons under the law.

Similarly, when women of all races were added to the population of Constitutional persons through the 19th amendment giving women the right to vote, and Supreme Court cases prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex neither the constitutional rights nor the personhood of men was diminished. While men lost significant power over their wives and daughters as well as advantages in the worlds of work, education and civic life, they did not lose their status as full constitutional persons under the law.

In contrast and as the examples above demonstrate, efforts to legally disconnect fetuses and to grant them entirely independent constitutional status would not merely add a new group to the Constitutional population: it would effectively denaturalize pregnant women, removing from them their status as Constitutional persons.

Passing measures that legally segregate eggs, embryos and fetuses from the pregnant woman will also result in a new regime of separate and unequal. Pregnant women could be sued, subject to child welfare interventions, or even arrested if they engaged in activities at work and at home that might be thought to create a risk to the life of the “preborn.” Legally separating the “pre-born” from the pregnant women who sustain them will ensure that in jobs, education, and civic life, pregnant women will, once again, be unequal to men.

Flashback to last week: PersonhoodUSA is the group behind this freakish video, featuring Barack Obama as the Angel of Death.

Youtube Video

Jump to bottom

156 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:36:55pm

just unreal. So now a single celled organism (until cell division occurs after fertilization) is a person?

2 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:37:11pm

Any thing to keep an uppity woman in her place.
/

3 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:40:48pm

If President Obama is the Angel of Death and George Bush is Stan, who is Dick Cheney? This is so confusing.
/need I?

4 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:42:05pm
This organization seeks to establish the “pre-born,” including eggs, embryos and fetuses as separate “legal persons with protection under the law.”

I could only take that seriously if every girl and woman is allowed to have 35,000 to 2.5 million votes in each election.

5 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:42:19pm

“But the Tea Party isn’t interested in socon issues, they’re only interested in smaller gov’t and lower taxes”.

- Swampland Real Estate Mogul

6 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:42:51pm

The UAE flight landed safely and is taxiing to the terminal

7 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:42:55pm

re: #1 Dreggas

just unreal. So now a single celled organism (until cell division occurs after fertilization) is a person?

I’m not surpised at all - particularly the number of stories of pharmacists not wanting to stock even just the morning after pill. Or bus drivers wanting to drive to planned parent hood clinics.

8 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:43:32pm

There is a very good reason why we say “I’m going to be a dad!” when we learn our wives our pregnant. It’s because we’re not a dad yet.

There’s a very good reason we don’t celebrate our conception days.

There’s a reason why (most of us) don’t treat a miscarriage the same was a stillbirth.

The rate of spontaneous abortion is shockingly high, and the rate of miscarriage is high as well. Pregnancies are not inevitable paths to the birth of a child, even without the medical availability of abortion. Fetuses are not the same as children, they are not people.

Even if one has a religious belief that a fetus has some special, non-medical property to it— a soul— there is no religion that treats every miscarried or spontaneously aborted fetus as though it was a person dying.

Tradition is sometimes a very wise thing. Tradition shows us that, culturally, we have never considered a potential child as the same thing as a child.

9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:43:41pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

I see what you did there. ;)

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:44:10pm

Monty Python, once again, are the true prophets of our time.

11 researchok  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:44:29pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

The UAE flight landed safely and is taxiing to the terminal

I really, really hope this exercise has been of the ‘abundence of caution’ variety.

12 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:44:52pm

re: #3 Cannadian Club Akbar

If President Obama is the Angel of Death and George Bush is Stan, who is Dick Cheney? This is so confusing.
/need I?

Cthulu Damnit! Why don’t people get it? We are doomed when he awakes from his slumber!

13 Big Steve  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:45:21pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

I could only take that seriously if every girl and woman is allowed to have 35,000 to 2.5 million votes in each election.


I want billions of votes for all the sperm cells I have created in my lifetime too!

14 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:45:22pm

re: #11 researchok

I really, really hope this exercise has been of the ‘abundence of caution’ variety.

I think so. It seems they are interested in cargo again. Probably another ink cartridge.

15 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:45:22pm

re: #10 Charles

Monty Python, once again, are the true prophets of our time.

[Video]

I am responsible for genocide many, many times over.

16 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:46:02pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

I think so. It seems they are interested in cargo again. Probably another ink cartridge.

I got this from CNN.com

UAE flight being escorted to JFK airport as a security precaution due to cargo on board that originated in Yemen.
17 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:46:02pm

re: #8 Obdicut

There is a very good reason why we say “I’m going to be a dad!” when we learn our wives our pregnant. It’s because we’re not a dad yet.

There’s a very good reason we don’t celebrate our conception days.

There’s a reason why (most of us) don’t treat a miscarriage the same was a stillbirth.

The rate of spontaneous abortion is shockingly high, and the rate of miscarriage is high as well. Pregnancies are not inevitable paths to the birth of a child, even without the medical availability of abortion. Fetuses are not the same as children, they are not people.

Even if one has a religious belief that a fetus has some special, non-medical property to it— a soul— there is no religion that treats every miscarried or spontaneously aborted fetus as though it was a person dying.

Tradition is sometimes a very wise thing. Tradition shows us that, culturally, we have never considered a potential child as the same thing as a child.

This is a perfect post full of rational, easily understood basic facts. For that very reason it will fail to penetrate a “true believer’s” mind.

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:46:47pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am responsible for genocide many, many times over.

Bet I have more socks then you do.
/

19 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:46:49pm

re: #11 researchok

I really, really hope this exercise has been of the ‘abundence of caution’ variety.

Me too.

20 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:47:13pm

You guys are just jealous. They’re only talking about eggs, not sperm.

Hmmm, I wonder why that is….

21 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:47:13pm

My mom is supposed to fly out of Heathrow today. I suspect it’s going to take a while longer than anticipated.

22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:47:18pm

re: #8 Obdicut

in some cultures they don’t give the baby a name until it reaches two years or older since the survival rate of infants can be problematic in those areas.

23 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:47:44pm

This is why I end up being vehemently pro-choice. Not because I think it’s ok to abort at anytime for any reason, but because there is NO give amongst the fanatics in the Pro-life movement. No matter what you do, you’ll have about 25% of the population feel that anyone who has an abortion is a murderer. Now toss that belief into the atmosphere today, and you have a wonderful volatile mix just waiting for the right spark to set it off.

There is no compromising with them. There is no reasoning with them. You can show them all the science in the world and they won’t care. Because to them, the world really is that simple. It’s just that stark.

Then you throw in the men that really do feel that abortion is giving uppity women a chance to abort their son or daughter and thwart their mission to populate the earth with their genes. And I have no desire to have anything to do with them or their ideas.

As a rational person I’d like to see Abortion Safe, Legal, and Relatively Rare Particularly after about 12 - 16 weeks. But given an either/or choice. I’d rather see someone do an abortion at 32 weeks than to let these people grow the power of government to control other peoples’ lives and actions.

24 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:48:06pm

re: #20 wrenchwench

because we all know that women are the ones responsible when they get pregnant.

//

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:48:31pm

In case anyone missed this before:

What Happened When I Yelled Back at the “Christians” Calling My Wife a Murderer

These people aren’t used to being confronted. They prey on the weak and they pounce on the wounded. But I chose to fight back.

That’s what they yelled at me and my wife on the worst day of our lives. As we entered the women’s health center on an otherwise perfect summer morning in Brookline, two women we had never met decided to pile onto the nightmare we had been living for three weeks. These “Christians” verbally accosted us—judged us—as we steeled ourselves for the horror of making the unimaginable, but necessary, decision to end our pregnancy at 16 weeks.

After extensive testing at a renowned Boston hospital three weeks earlier, we were told our baby had Sirenomelia. Otherwise known as Mermaid Syndrome, it’s a rare (one in every 100,000 pregnancies) congenital deformity in which the legs are fused together. Worse than that, our baby had no bladder or kidneys. Our doctors told us there was zero chance for survival.

26 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:48:58pm

re: #24 Dreggas

because we all know that women are the ones responsible when they get pregnant.

//

They only got that way because they were sinners.
/

27 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:50:10pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well duh! We all know women are the ones who caused men to fall!

//

28 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:50:18pm

Right, “personhood”. Except for the children living in poverty; collateral damage; wrongly convicted inmates on death row; the unemployed; the single mothers who can’t make ends meet; anyone in what they would call “the inner city”; etc.

29 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:50:27pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am responsible for genocide many, many times over.

OMGWTFBBQ!, my girlfriend is a cannibal!

30 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:50:57pm

re: #29 bloodstar

OMGWTFBBQ!, my girlfriend is a cannibal!

TMI.
TMI.
TMI.
TMI.

31 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:51:29pm

re: #29 bloodstar

OMGWTFBBQ!, my girlfriend is a cannibal!

I think I love her. (or dated her sister)
//

32 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:52:27pm

re: #13 Big Steve

I want billions of votes for all the sperm cells I have created in my lifetime too!

And you’d be arrested for mass murder immediately if you masturbated.

///

33 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:53:08pm

re: #29 bloodstar

what’s the definition of trust?

two cannibals 69’ing.

34 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:53:09pm

Later gators.
:)

35 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:53:20pm

re: #23 bloodstar

This is why I end up being vehemently pro-choice. Not because I think it’s ok to abort at anytime for any reason, but because there is NO give amongst the fanatics in the Pro-life movement. No matter what you do, you’ll have about 25% of the population feel that anyone who has an abortion is a murderer. Now toss that belief into the atmosphere today, and you have a wonderful volatile mix just waiting for the right spark to set it off.

There is no compromising with them. There is no reasoning with them. You can show them all the science in the world and they won’t care. Because to them, the world really is that simple. It’s just that stark.

Then you throw in the men that really do feel that abortion is giving uppity women a chance to abort their son or daughter and thwart their mission to populate the earth with their genes. And I have no desire to have anything to do with them or their ideas.

As a rational person I’d like to see Abortion Safe, Legal, and Relatively Rare Particularly after about 12 - 16 weeks. But given an either/or choice. I’d rather see someone do an abortion at 32 weeks than to let these people grow the power of government to control other peoples’ lives and actions.

Well said.

36 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:53:22pm

re: #32 oaktree

And you’d be arrested for mass murder immediately if you masturbated.

///

What do you mean “IF”?

37 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:53:46pm

The outlawing of abortion in the United States, either by amendments such as this, or simply making it difficult to obtain abortions in certain states all amounts to the same thing to me: barbarism.

38 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:55:10pm

re: #36 Cannadian Club Akbar

You’re doing it right now, aren’t you.

39 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:56:48pm

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

You’re doing it right now, aren’t you.

Dude, you only run across Lindsy Lohan in prison pics once in a while…

40 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:57:51pm

re: #39 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude, you only run across Lindsy Lohan in prison pics once in a while…

Those appear to be photoshopped. I’ve seen a few in my days. You can tell by the pixels.

41 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 12:59:47pm

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

I used to be an escort at an abortion clinic in San Francisco.

We had protestors. They’d shout “You have to answer to god for killing your baby” at every woman who went in. They’d also shout it at a lot of women who were just walking past on their way to Walgreens.

Anyway, one day an older couple, around forty, arrived. The woman put her head down and went inside. The man stood outside, and lit a cigarette as the protestors berated him.

“You’ll have to answer to god for killing your baby,” one shouted, (illegally) approaching him and thrusting some anti-abortion literature at him.

“No,” he said, in a very loud, clear voice, “God has to answer for this one. She doesn’t have lungs.”

They were silent for all of five minutes. Before one of them said, “Did you pray to God to heal your baby before you decided to kill it?”

He put out his cigarette, shook my hand, said, “Before I kill someone for real,” and went inside.

42 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:00:13pm

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Those appear to be photoshopped. I’ve seen a few in my days. You can tell by the pixels.

Lindsy+no makeup= gag.

43 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:02:01pm

Anyone have a reasonable speculation how the ink cartridge plot was supposed to work?
Synagogues were to receive the unsolicited cartridges which almost certainly wouldn’t be usable with whatever printer they have. I can never find the right cartridges for my printers. They’d just throw them away.

44 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:02:20pm

I just realized I want this both ways. I am pro choice, but I also want a person who murders a pregnant woman charged with two murders. I want the extra deterrent. How crazy am I?

45 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:02:48pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Dry run?

46 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:03:28pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

I just realized I want this both ways. I am pro choice, but I also want a person who murders a pregnant woman charged with two murders. I want the extra deterrent. How crazy am I?

We have that in Florida.

47 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:04:56pm

re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar

We have that in Florida.

Also with DUI/Manslaughter.

48 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:05:14pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

I just realized I want this both ways. I am pro choice, but I also want a person who murders a pregnant woman charged with two murders. I want the extra deterrent. How crazy am I?

Not crazy. Especially if the fetus is targeted. It is possible to be pro choice and believe that a fetus can be wrongfully killed.

49 Big Steve  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:05:37pm

re: #23 bloodstar

Then you throw in the men that really do feel that abortion is giving uppity women a chance to abort their son or daughter and thwart their mission to populate the earth with their genes. And I have no desire to have anything to do with them or their ideas.


Excellent analysis but regarding your point above…..in a long life, with the exception of the Godfather II movie, I have never ever heard a single one of my brother males ever state, imply, brag, snicker, or in any other fashion express this as the reason they might object to abortion. Not saying that there aren’t any, but I just haven’t met them.

50 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:06:16pm

re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dry run?

I don’t buy the dry run theory. Why waste the opportunity on a dry run and expose the real plot? If they wanted to mail radioactive ink cartridges there’s no need to test it by mailing radioactive ink cartridges.

51 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:07:05pm

re: #48 wrenchwench

Not crazy. Especially if the fetus is targeted. It is possible to be pro choice and believe that a fetus can be wrongfully killed.

Also, you can kill a woman who doesn’t know she’s pregnant. Then the prosecution can pull out the hammer.

52 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:07:36pm

Ouch this is going to leave a mark;

The Tea Party movement: deluded and inspired by billionaires

The Tea Party movement is remarkable in two respects. It is one of the biggest exercises in false consciousness the world has seen – and the biggest Astroturf operation in history. These accomplishments are closely related.

An Astroturf campaign is a fake grassroots movement: it purports to be a spontaneous uprising of concerned citizens, but in reality it is founded and funded by elite interests. Some Astroturf campaigns have no grassroots component at all. Others catalyse and direct real mobilisations. The Tea Party belongs in the second category. It is mostly composed of passionate, well-meaning people who think they are fighting elite power, unaware that they have been organised by the very interests they believe they are confronting. We now have powerful evidence that the movement was established and has been guided with the help of money from billionaires and big business. Much of this money, as well as much of the strategy and staffing, were provided by two brothers who run what they call “the biggest company you’ve never heard of”.

Charles and David Koch own 84% of Koch Industries, the second-largest private company in the United States. It runs oil refineries, coal suppliers, chemical plants and logging firms, and turns over roughly $100bn a year; the brothers are each worth $21bn. The company has had to pay tens of millions of dollars in fines and settlements for oil and chemical spills and other industrial accidents. The Kochs want to pay less tax, keep more profits and be restrained by less regulation. Their challenge has been to persuade the people harmed by this agenda that it’s good for them.

53 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:08:17pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

I mean the wires coming from the cartridge.

54 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:09:15pm

Totally off topic but some lizards may be interested.

We now have Tropical Storm Tomas down in the Caribbean, And this one could be a major threat to Puerto Rico, Haiti the DR and Cuba. Probably less of a threat to the US, but it can’t be ruled out yet. It’s a big storm and it’s just now getting ramped up. And the best comparison would be to some of the western pacific storms you see from time to time.

For people wanting to follow the storm you can peek on the NHC website (which hasn’t updated the official designation yet.

For the people who prefer bloggy information you have Dr Jeff Master’s Blog on wunderground

or the Central Florida Hurricane Blog.

We now return you back to the Regularly scheduled lizard broadcasting.

55 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:09:35pm

Just to add some levity to this horrific attempt to make terrible law.

Alouette tried to guess my Halloween costume.

re: #211 Alouette

That’s just silly. Everyone knows Ludwig’s costume is a Soviet Red Army uniform.

Again you try to release the secrets of Remulak? If you were not the main squeeze of a high overlord…

But you are mistaken!

I am actually going as Trotsky in a tutu. Miss S. and I will preform a version of Swan Lake, renamed Icepick Lake, where she is dressed as a swarthy Latin man, named Ricky with a crush on me.

I am saved from the icepick by the power of love. I reveal my true identity as a Kenyan Imam in the, I have an icepick too dance, and she reveals her secret identity as a Moveon.org agitator in the shocking armpit dance. Then we get it on in the post gender identity dance and we have a super baby who becomes the president of the United States.

After the bris, the piece reaches its climax in the karma dance where our baby, the communist, marxist, Muslim, post-racial, post- gender president, dances on the heads of iconic truck drivers with bad backs.

The entire piece is set to the music of Bananrama.

56 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:10:03pm

Sarah Palin: dumber than dirt

She’s having an outrageous outrage this morning on twitter.

# Americans awaken 2 bizarre natl security thinking of Obama Admn: Ahmadinejad b’day greeting after call 4 Israel’s destruction speaks volumes about 4 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Happy B’day Ahmadinejad wish sent by US Govt. Mind boggling foreign policy: kowtow & coddle enemies; snub allies. Obama Doctrine is nonsense about 4 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

It wasn’t a “birthday wish” or “greeting”. Here’s what they sent. They were taunting him. I don’t recall even Bush being that ballsy.

57 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:11:05pm

re: #54 bloodstar

meh…I not afraid…

58 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:11:05pm

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ouch this is going to leave a mark;

The Tea Party movement: deluded and inspired by billionaires

This needs to be a thread of its own. It’s not as if the Koch Brothers haven’t been really obvious.

59 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:11:26pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

Heh….

60 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:11:33pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Trial run is the speculation on the tv news.

61 garhighway  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:11:46pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin: dumber than dirt

She’s having an outrageous outrage this morning on twitter.

It wasn’t a “birthday wish” or “greeting”. Here’s what they sent. They were taunting him. I don’t recall even Bush being that ballsy.

Dumb as a bag of hammers.

62 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:12:04pm

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think it was a lame attempt at something. not sure what but I think it was just a stupid idea and poorly executed.

63 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:12:31pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

I was going to go as “creepy guy in crowd” but the Tea Party got all the costumes already.

64 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:13:31pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin: dumber than dirt

She’s having an outrageous outrage this morning on twitter.

It wasn’t a “birthday wish” or “greeting”. Here’s what they sent. They were taunting him. I don’t recall even Bush being that ballsy.

It’s the effect of palons, those horrible spin 3/2 carriers of dork energy that lower IQ when they interact.

65 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:13:59pm

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I almost went as a hedge fund manager. Of course what I went as instead has scared my co-workers none-the-less.

66 Ericus58  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:14:03pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

Just to add some levity to this horrific attempt to make terrible law.

Alouette tried to guess my Halloween costume.

re: #211 Alouette

That’s just silly. Everyone knows Ludwig’s costume is a Soviet Red Army uniform.

Again you try to release the secrets of Remulak? If you were not the main squeeze of a high overlord…

But you are mistaken!

I am actually going as Trotsky in a tutu. Miss S. and I will preform a version of Swan Lake, renamed Icepick Lake, where she is dressed as a swarthy Latin man, named Ricky with a crush on me.

I am saved from the icepick by the power of love. I reveal my true identity as a Kenyan Imam in the, I have an icepick too dance, and she reveals her secret identity as a Moveon.org agitator in the shocking armpit dance. Then we get it on in the post gender identity dance and we have a super baby who becomes the president of the United States.

After the bris, the piece reaches its climax in the karma dance where our baby, the communist, marxist, Muslim, post-racial, post- gender president, dances on the heads of iconic truck drivers with bad backs.

The entire piece is set to the music of Bananrama.

Hahahahahaha!
I can’t decide which parts are the best - well played, Sir.

67 blueraven  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:14:35pm

re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth

Trial run is the speculation on the tv news.

I have to give Fox their due so far on this story. The consensus has been that the administration has handled this very well.

We will have to wait and see how the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck/Hannity crowd will deal with this.

68 garhighway  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:14:36pm

re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth

Trial run is the speculation on the tv news.

Question:

Wouldn’t it have been better, from a tactical standpoint, if none of this had been reported? Wouldn’t it have been better to have AQ or whomever wondering what happened than for them to know what got picked up where? Don’t they gain valuable intel from this?

I know we all want to know everything, and I most certainly understand that the media has zero self-control (and a perfect legal right to print/broadcast/post what they please) but isn’t this kind of like printing the date and time the troopship will be leaving harbor?

69 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:15:22pm

re: #67 blueraven

I have to give Fox their due so far on this story. The consensus has been that the administration has handled this very well.

We will have to wait and see how the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck/Hannity crowd will deal with this.

Give them 24 hours to come up with a story of how this got fucked up.

70 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:15:38pm

re: #67 blueraven

they’ll find a way to make it Obama’s fault by tomorrow.

71 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:15:49pm

re: #66 Ericus58

Hahahahahaha!
I can’t decide which parts are the best - well played, Sir.

Thank you!

72 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:15:56pm

re: #65 Dreggas

I almost went as a hedge fund manager. Of course what I went as instead has scared my co-workers none-the-less.

I’m having to fall back on my back up costume of Lucky Bastard while my wife wears her Japanese Schoolgirl costume.

73 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:16:00pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Is this a case of Palin being dumb, or cynical in believing that her flock is to dumb to fact check for themselves?

I vote both!

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:16:17pm

re: #68 garhighway

Question:

Wouldn’t it have been better, from a tactical standpoint, if none of this had been reported? Wouldn’t it have been better to have AQ or whomever wondering what happened than for them to know what got picked up where? Don’t they gain valuable intel from this?

I know we all want to know everything, and I most certainly understand that the media has zero self-control (and a perfect legal right to print/broadcast/post what they please) but isn’t this kind of like printing the date and time the troopship will be leaving harbor?

I have to agree.

75 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:16:49pm

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

Agreed and recommended. Ding!

76 Slap  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:17:19pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

There’s really no contradiction here, don’t fret. The core issue is choice. Someone who murders a pregnant woman removes choice from the equation, with the assumption that she didn’t choose to be murdered.

Your stance still protects choice.

77 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:17:27pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My wife (of two weeks now) has promised to wear her cop outfit she bought and I have promised to resist arrest and not claim police brutality.

78 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:17:47pm

re: #68 garhighway

I think the problem there is the ability to warn potential or likely victims.

79 jamesfirecat  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:17:48pm

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

(Yes I am at work)

Even if you give a fetus all the rights of a fully grown human, what right does it have to use its mother’s organs without her consent?

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:17:58pm

re: #41 Obdicut

I used to be an escort at an abortion clinic in San Francisco.

We had protestors. They’d shout “You have to answer to god for killing your baby” at every woman who went in. They’d also shout it at a lot of women who were just walking past on their way to Walgreens.

Anyway, one day an older couple, around forty, arrived. The woman put her head down and went inside. The man stood outside, and lit a cigarette as the protestors berated him.

“You’ll have to answer to god for killing your baby,” one shouted, (illegally) approaching him and thrusting some anti-abortion literature at him.

“No,” he said, in a very loud, clear voice, “God has to answer for this one. She doesn’t have lungs.”

They were silent for all of five minutes. Before one of them said, “Did you pray to God to heal your baby before you decided to kill it?”

He put out his cigarette, shook my hand, said, “Before I kill someone for real,” and went inside.

I think I’ve been in that clinic.

I remember the day a very young girl had to restrain her boyfriend from going downstairs to kick ass. The thirty-seventh time some dude screamed “Spare Your Child!” down below on the street seemed to get on her nerves.

81 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:18:21pm

re: #49 Big Steve

Excellent analysis but regarding your point above…in a long life, with the exception of the Godfather II movie, I have never ever heard a single one of my brother males ever state, imply, brag, snicker, or in any other fashion express this as the reason they might object to abortion. Not saying that there aren’t any, but I just haven’t met them.

And I’m grateful that it’s much less prevalent in today’s society than 30+ years ago. And thankfully your friends sound like rational people who aren’t abusive or thinking themselves inherently superior to women.

Unfortunately, like racism, I think there is a latent undercurrent that stains the very discussion on Abortion because it’s still there, just rarely out in the open, and rarely said in so many ways anymore.

I’ve personally heard it, and had to try to console a female friend who dealt with an abusive asshole who threatened, cajoled and otherwise tried to keep her from having an abortion. She ended up not having the abortion, and finally left him. but is now a single mother with an Ex who’s left her with the kid and she’s pretty much screwed.

I know, it’s just one example, and that’s not exactly great scientific evidence, and yeah, that guy was a real piece of work. But it does happen.

I just wanted to say that your point is good one, and I’m grateful that what my friend went through is hopefully rare.

82 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:18:27pm

Where is Hoosier Hoops? I made his favorite, French Apple Pie, for Pie Day.

If Hoosier doesn’t claim it, it’s up for grabs.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:18:43pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

I just realized I want this both ways. I am pro choice, but I also want a person who murders a pregnant woman charged with two murders. I want the extra deterrent. How crazy am I?

I totally get that, though.

84 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:19:16pm

re: #68 garhighway

I wouldn’t know, I’m not in the Intel/Counter-Intel game.

85 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:19:32pm

re: #41 Obdicut

I used to be an escort at an abortion clinic in San Francisco.

We had protestors. They’d shout “You have to answer to god for killing your baby” at every woman who went in. They’d also shout it at a lot of women who were just walking past on their way to Walgreens.

Anyway, one day an older couple, around forty, arrived. The woman put her head down and went inside. The man stood outside, and lit a cigarette as the protestors berated him.

“You’ll have to answer to god for killing your baby,” one shouted, (illegally) approaching him and thrusting some anti-abortion literature at him.

“No,” he said, in a very loud, clear voice, “God has to answer for this one. She doesn’t have lungs.”

They were silent for all of five minutes. Before one of them said, “Did you pray to God to heal your baby before you decided to kill it?”

He put out his cigarette, shook my hand, said, “Before I kill someone for real,” and went inside.

Wow. This is a hell of a story.

86 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:19:42pm

re: #82 Alouette

Where is Hoosier Hoops? I made his favorite, French Apple Pie, for Pie Day.

If Hoosier doesn’t claim it, it’s up for grabs.

MINE!! Before fBV gets here.

87 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:19:57pm

re: #68 garhighway

Question:

Wouldn’t it have been better, from a tactical standpoint, if none of this had been reported? Wouldn’t it have been better to have AQ or whomever wondering what happened than for them to know what got picked up where? Don’t they gain valuable intel from this?

I know we all want to know everything, and I most certainly understand that the media has zero self-control (and a perfect legal right to print/broadcast/post what they please) but isn’t this kind of like printing the date and time the troopship will be leaving harbor?

Probably not. The devices were noticed quickly. Those who sent them are probably already in custody or being pursued as we speak. This is bad publicity for Al Qaeda. It makes it harder for them to recruit if the couriers know they are going to be found out so easily.

That’s why we aren’t seeing much in the way of suicide bombers. Al Qaeda has botched enough attempts that nobody trusts them to build a working bomb. Nobody is going to sign up to have their feet/balls blown off and then rot in prison without killing any infidels.

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:20:12pm

re: #82 Alouette

Where is Hoosier Hoops? I made his favorite, French Apple Pie, for Pie Day.

If Hoosier doesn’t claim it, it’s up for grabs.

Wait!!! You deliver! I could use a kosher pie! I like pie! Miss S. likes pie!

89 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:20:36pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Anyone have a reasonable speculation how the ink cartridge plot was supposed to work?
Synagogues were to receive the unsolicited cartridges which almost certainly wouldn’t be usable with whatever printer they have. I can never find the right cartridges for my printers. They’d just throw them away.

As you might surmise, the Fever Swamp has a theory:

NOW and the other Leftwingtards know very well that their gay friends who work at Google.com, et al, were involved in plenty of other similar attacks on other Republican women, and this time THEY GOT CAUGHT before their BS got very far.
That’s why the Leftwingtards had to call in AlQaida in Yemen to start loading up the phony bombs (or maybe they are “real bombs”) yesterday so the discovery would take this failed propaganda attack against Christine right out of the news.
So far it looks like it’s working.
So who makes the calls to AlQaida to arrange these things? Is it Obama doing some of his direct face to face diplomacy? Or Michelle!

This is still more evidence for a truly mind-boggling reality: The tea party leadership is not as crazy as the base.

90 jamesfirecat  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:21:32pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

I just realized I want this both ways. I am pro choice, but I also want a person who murders a pregnant woman charged with two murders. I want the extra deterrent. How crazy am I?

It becomes non hypocritical if you argue that the mother’s consent to carry the child to term grants it personhood. (A personhood that can in turn be revoked by lack of said consent at any “reasonable” point in the pregnancy)

91 garhighway  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:21:34pm

re: #78 Rightwingconspirator

I think the problem there is the ability to warn potential or likely victims.

On some scenarios I can see that. But no one was getting warned here, and yet now the perps have a very good idea of where in the system their test parcels (if that’s what they are) were snagged. That HAS to be valuable to them.

But in general, yes: I would always prioritize a life-saving warning above the intel aspect. I just don’t see that having been the case this time.

92 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:21:36pm

OT:
President Obama speaking on the suspicious packages warning/alerts/investigations on air cargo flights:

93 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:21:39pm

I had one run in with anti-abortion demonstators. They were taking up all the parking around the clinic the same day I had to bring in my daughter for an emergency visit and had to park 3 blocks away.

Once I got finished and made sure my daughter was OK, I had some choice words for those self righteous bastards.

94 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:22:06pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

As you might surmise, the Fever Swamp has a theory:

This is still more evidence for a truly mind-boggling reality: The tea party leadership is not as crazy as the base.

The Hot Air readers are embracing the Truther conspiracies as well.

95 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:22:33pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

WOW man I want some of the dope they are smoking…wait, maybe not.

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:23:28pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

There’s a demonic conspiracy hiding in every bush with those types. Must be stressful to live life in such a bizarre mind.

97 researchok  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:24:29pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

Just to add some levity to this horrific attempt to make terrible law.

Alouette tried to guess my Halloween costume.

re: #211 Alouette

That’s just silly. Everyone knows Ludwig’s costume is a Soviet Red Army uniform.

Again you try to release the secrets of Remulak? If you were not the main squeeze of a high overlord…

But you are mistaken!

I am actually going as Trotsky in a tutu. Miss S. and I will preform a version of Swan Lake, renamed Icepick Lake, where she is dressed as a swarthy Latin man, named Ricky with a crush on me.

I am saved from the icepick by the power of love. I reveal my true identity as a Kenyan Imam in the, I have an icepick too dance, and she reveals her secret identity as a Moveon.org agitator in the shocking armpit dance. Then we get it on in the post gender identity dance and we have a super baby who becomes the president of the United States.

After the bris, the piece reaches its climax in the karma dance where our baby, the communist, marxist, Muslim, post-racial, post- gender president, dances on the heads of iconic truck drivers with bad backs.

The entire piece is set to the music of Bananrama.

Diversion. You’ll be costumed as Beria.

I’ll be moving to Novbosibirk.

98 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:24:51pm

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

MINE!! Before fBV gets here.

Hell noes… I claim V’Ahavta l’Reacha Kamocha!

She has to give it to me!

99 blueraven  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:25:00pm

re: #85 LudwigVanQuixote

Wow. This is a hell of a story.

The daily dish published an excellent series on abortion dilemmas from readers. I know some of you have problems with Andrew and I do too on some issues, but this is compelling stuff.

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com

100 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:25:10pm

re: #41 Obdicut

It bothers me greatly that these “pro-life” cretins (l so enjoy using this word) harass women at clinics. I honestly want to get involved in being an escort at such clinics. What organization do I need to contact in order to volunteer my time?

101 garhighway  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:25:11pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Probably not. The devices were noticed quickly. Some made it to NYC, didn’t they? That ain’t so quick.Those who sent them are probably already in custody or being pursued as we speak. Pursued, maybe. Caught? I doubt it. That judgment is way premature.This is bad publicity for Al Qaeda. It makes it harder for them to recruit if the couriers know they are going to be found out so easily.If you say so, but I am not smelling any great victory here, just a bullet dodged.

102 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:25:21pm

re: #95 Dreggas

WOW man I want some of the dope they are smoking…wait, maybe not.

Definitely not. The kind of dope that produces such paranoid thinking must be smoked in a glass pipe. You don’t want nothin’ to do with that.

103 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:25:45pm

Seriously, Obdi is one of the best of us here.

104 researchok  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:26:31pm

re: #97 researchok

As in Novosibirsk- I want to save LVQ the trouble of having to relocate me.

105 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:26:37pm

re: #98 LudwigVanQuixote

Hell noes… I claim V’Ahavta l’Reacha Kamocha!

She has to give it to me!

I have no idea what that means so you win.:)

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:26:49pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

As you might surmise, the Fever Swamp has a theory:

This is still more evidence for a truly mind-boggling reality: The tea party leadership is not as crazy as the base.

I’m not sure that can be descibed as ‘the base’. I think it’s ‘the bottom of the barrel’.

107 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:27:57pm

re: #98 LudwigVanQuixote

Hell noes… I claim V’Ahavta l’Reacha Kamocha!

She has to give it to me!

Klattu Barada Niktu to you as well.

108 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:28:01pm

President Obama: the threat was credible, and two devices did test positive for explosives - one at the East Midlands Airport and the other discovered in Dubai; all the suspicious packages appeared to originate from Yemen.

109 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:28:04pm

re: #97 researchok

Diversion. You’ll be costumed as Beria.

I’ll be moving to Novbosibirk.

WOW… I just saw the people disappear dance become fully choreographed in my mind.

No one is on stage! The performers are merely stomping their feet in the wings. It is set to Madonna!

110 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:28:27pm

re: #95 Dreggas

WOW man I want some of the dope they are smoking…wait, maybe not.

My security guard friend is 100% in favor of legalizing marijuana, on the grounds that weekend revelers, especially college students, would be much easier to cope with if they were stoned rather than drunk.
“Yeah, I could leave my gun at home and just carry a bag of munchies with me. We could say, ‘Here, have an oreo,” instead of ‘stop that or go to jail!’”

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:28:35pm

A note from an American educator: I fucking HATE Halloween.

I hope my Celtic ancestors will forgive me.

If I taught in a Jewish school, I’m sure I would also hate Purim.

112 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:28:45pm

re: #85 LudwigVanQuixote

Luckily they were able to diagnose the lack of lung development early enough for it to be an unproblematic procedure— not anatomically, but genetically.

Those protesters were just sheer hatred.

113 Ericus58  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:28:49pm

re: #101 garhighway

“4:22 PM ET: The President is now speaking.

He says two packages were discovered yesterday that did have explosive material in them. They were from Yemen.

The extra security today was based upon that threat, a follow up to yesterday’s discovery.”

businessinsider.com

114 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:29:06pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

re: #76 Slap

That’s why I hold the womans right to choose above any chosen status of the fetus. Even as a legal “person”. Let me say it like this. Yes, it’s a human being sometime really soon after conception. So it all the normal protections and medical care apply. But all of that is subject to the womans choice. Of course with the choice comes all the responsibility for good care. Drug abuse during pregnancy is “child” abuse.

I have said this before here, but sometimes we do give powers of life and death to our fellow human beings by necessity. Like in triage, in battles, even firefighting. The original necessity in this context resides with the pregnant woman.

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:29:27pm

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have no idea what that means so you win.:)

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Klattu Barada Niktu to you as well.

It means give the nice Jewish boy the pie - we have to stick together.

I’m actually being really goofy.

It means love thy neighbor…

116 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:08pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

A note from an American educator: I fucking HATE Halloween.

I hope my Celtic ancestors will forgive me.

If I taught in a Jewish school, I’m sure I would also hate Purim.

But, but, there’s food and drink. Much drink, with Purim. And even if you’re not into the drink, there’s still all that food.

117 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:09pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

A note from an American educator: I fucking HATE Halloween.

I hope my Celtic ancestors will forgive me.

If I taught in a Jewish school, I’m sure I would also hate Purim.

My kids used to describe the difference between Halloween and Purim:

“On Halloween, kids dress up in costumes and go from door to door and demand treats. On Purim, kids dress up in costumes and go from door to door giving out treats.”

118 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:17pm

re: #108 lawhawk

So, two legit devices and a bunch of decoys then?

119 researchok  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:18pm

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

WOW… I just saw the people disappear dance become fully choreographed in my mind.

No one is on stage! The performers are merely stomping their feet in the wings. It is set to Madonna!

Sure. Bring the Kabbalist into it.
/

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:35pm

re: #112 Obdicut

Luckily they were able to diagnose the lack of lung development early enough for it to be an unproblematic procedure— not anatomically, but genetically.

Those protesters were just sheer hatred.

Crazy and self-righteous.

121 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:38pm

re: #112 Obdicut

Luckily they were able to diagnose the lack of lung development early enough for it to be an unproblematic procedure— not anatomically, but genetically.

Those protesters were just sheer hatred.

Such little minds. Such loud mouths.

122 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:30:44pm

re: #100 eclectic infidel

It bothers me greatly that these “pro-life” cretins (l so enjoy using this word) harass women at clinics. I honestly want to get involved in being an escort at such clinics. What organization do I need to contact in order to volunteer my time?

Mostly, you can contact the local clinic themselves— that’s how my wife and I got involved. We lived almost literally next door, and saw the protesters.

You can ask at your local NARAL chapter as well.

123 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:32:21pm

I can’t believe that people are stupid enough to believe that that Charlie Chaplin film clip shows a “time traveler”. The stupid, it burns.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:32:44pm

re: #117 Alouette

My kids used to describe the difference between Halloween and Purim:

“On Halloween, kids dress up in costumes and go from door to door and demand treats. On Purim, kids dress up in costumes and go from door to door giving out treats.”

My mother has a friend who is a Jewish educator of many years’ experience. Her comment: “I can’t stand Purim. It’s exhausting, it’s raucous, there’s all this stuff you have to do, and also, you have to be dressed as a ladybug.”

(Yes, she actually said ladybug, and this was before the stupid Gawker piece about O’Donnell.)

125 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:33:50pm

re: #114 Rightwingconspirator

Abortion, when it is needed
Execution, for those who deserve it
The giving and taking of life will always be
Altering the future

/that’s just a link to a death metal song, I won’t make you click, I promise…

126 researchok  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:33:51pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

A note from an American educator: I fucking HATE Halloween.

I hope my Celtic ancestors will forgive me.

If I taught in a Jewish school, I’m sure I would also hate Purim.

You have Celtic ancestors, I have Jewish ancestors.

We come from Sephardic stock, booted out of Spain in 1492, made their way to England (mid-late 1500’s with 40 other families (before Cromwell said, ‘Sure you can stay’, etc.

I identify with and like the Jewish side of the family way better.

Less inbreeding.

127 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:33:59pm

re: #123 Gus 802

Wishful thinking.

Besides, I think I saw that scene once before. It was called 12 Monkeys. Or Highlander. Or any other movie where the plot involves a character moving in and out of the timeline and making random appearances that get caught in celluloid.

128 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:36:22pm

re: #123 Gus 802

I can’t believe that people are stupid enough to believe that that Charlie Chaplin film clip shows a “time traveler”. The stupid, it burns.

I’m just grateful that Americans aren’t the only ones who are bug-fuck stupid.

129 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:37:42pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

My mother has a friend who is a Jewish educator of many years’ experience. Her comment: “I can’t stand Purim. It’s exhausting, it’s raucous, there’s all this stuff you have to do, and also, you have to be dressed as a ladybug.”

(Yes, she actually said ladybug, and this was before the stupid Gawker piece about O’Donnell.)

You don’t have to be a lady bug.

I actually know a very dignified rebbitzen who goes as the cat in the hat every year. As to raucous - well there is the fact that it is the only holiday I know of where you are actually commanded to get blitzed.

130 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:37:54pm

re: #127 lawhawk

Wishful thinking.

Besides, I think I saw that scene once before. It was called 12 Monkeys. Or Highlander. Or any other movie where the plot involves a character moving in and out of the timeline and making random appearances that get caught in celluloid.

Wishful thinking and strangely enough another reflection of how people still hold onto non-scientific beliefs. There knowledge base has been formed by years of television viewing which begin the early stages of human development — such as infants watching TV. In many ways, fiction has become the new religion.

131 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:37:55pm

there’s also the adult side to purim, where the rabbi might stand up after the megilla is read, hold up a glass of vodka, and say “now it is my happy duty to inform you that you have a religious obligation to get so drunk that you don’t know the difference between haman and mordechai”

and then you dance

132 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:39:12pm

You know, when I see something I don’t quite understand, my first reaction is too immeadiately assume time travel, followed by aliens.

Then I recall its probably an acid flashback and there is probably a sane answer.

133 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:39:41pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I just kill it with fire.

134 Ericus58  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:40:07pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know, when I see something I don’t quite understand, my first reaction is too immeadiately assume time travel, followed by aliens.

Then I recall its probably an acid flashback and there is probably a sane answer.

It was the Purple Microdot, wasn’t it?

135 3eff Jeff  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:40:17pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know, when I see something I don’t quite understand, my first reaction is too immeadiately assume time travel, followed by aliens.

Then I recall its probably an acid flashback and there is probably a sane answer.

You might pass your resume on to Alex Jones and see if he has openings for fact checkers.

///

136 Winny Spencer  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:40:22pm

Everyone seems to be in a good mood today.

137 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:41:18pm

re: #134 Ericus58

It was the Purple Microdot, wasn’t it?

Peace, pot and microdot. Heh.

138 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:41:24pm

re: #128 Slumbering Behemoth

I’m just grateful that Americans aren’t the only ones who are bug-fuck stupid.

[Video]

New age snake oil: the other new religion. I remember the pathetic crystal trend when people were wearing those “rocks” thinking that it has the ability to influence external physics, mood, etc. Then there was the pyramid phase. Now we have “touch therapy” and the never end onslaught of homeopathic bullshit.

139 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:41:44pm

re: #8 Obdicut

There is a very good reason why we say “I’m going to be a dad!” when we learn our wives our pregnant. It’s because we’re not a dad yet.

There’s a very good reason we don’t celebrate our conception days.

There’s a reason why (most of us) don’t treat a miscarriage the same was a stillbirth.

The rate of spontaneous abortion is shockingly high, and the rate of miscarriage is high as well. Pregnancies are not inevitable paths to the birth of a child, even without the medical availability of abortion. Fetuses are not the same as children, they are not people.

Even if one has a religious belief that a fetus has some special, non-medical property to it— a soul— there is no religion that treats every miscarried or spontaneously aborted fetus as though it was a person dying.

Tradition is sometimes a very wise thing. Tradition shows us that, culturally, we have never considered a potential child as the same thing as a child.

Miscarriages and stillbirths could become criminal offenses under their logic. Murder, reckless homicide etc.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:45:28pm

re: #123 Gus 802

I can’t believe that people are stupid enough to believe that that Charlie Chaplin film clip shows a “time traveler”. The stupid, it burns.

I promised Miss S, that if I ever invented time travel, after writing the time and date down to the second, I would come back to that moment with flowers. Future me didn’t show up, but I got a fed ex envelope marked next day delivery and mailed the previous afternoon.

Inside was a letter.

It said,

Dear Me,

Whatever you do, get the pie from Alouette! If CCA or FBV gets it, it will set off a chain of events that leaves Palin as president, our timeline is fucked save your own…

Ohhh and seriously, check don’t drive I-95 on Oct 14th.

Love,
Me

P.S. here is a list of all anniversaries that Miss S. has kept track of, but you have not taken into account.


So Alouette, the future of America depends on you giving me that pie. Future me told us so.

141 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:46:35pm

re: #12 LudwigVanQuixote

Cthulu Damnit! Why don’t people get it? We are doomed when he awakes from his slumber!

Cheney would eat Cthulu raw and spit out the bones - after shooting him in the face with a shotgun.

142 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:46:39pm

re: #128 Slumbering Behemoth

I’m just grateful that Americans aren’t the only ones who are bug-fuck stupid.

[Video]

Heh. That’s not exactly a skeptic program either. The man at the end talking about getting “certified stones.” There is no real certification process to that bullshit. Yeesh.

143 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:46:48pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know, when I see something I don’t quite understand, my first reaction is too immeadiately assume time travel, followed by aliens.

Then I recall its probably an acid flashback and there is probably a sane answer.

Well speaking as an Overlord of Remulak, the best way to tell if it was aliens is a little soreness if you know what I mean.

144 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:53:47pm

re: #138 Gus 802

As the Onion anchor said “It never ends, this shit.

145 Lidane  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:53:54pm

re: #12 LudwigVanQuixote

Cthulu Damnit! Why don’t people get it? We are doomed when he awakes from his slumber!

Give BP time. I’m sure they’ll find a way to awaken Cthulhu.

/South Park

146 Kragar  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:54:06pm

After watching the Time Travel video, I can see his point. Obviously, no one in all of human history would ever have had their hand up to their ear in such a way before the advent of cell phones. Luckily this detective with the obviously laser honed perceptive skills has uncovered one of the greatest mysteries to ever baffle mankind.

147 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:54:56pm

Here’s both of her Tweets:

SarahPalinUSA
Americans awaken 2 bizarre natl security thinking of Obama Admn: Ahmadinejad b’day greeting after call 4 Israel’s destruction speaks volumes
4 hours ago

SarahPalinUSA
Happy B’day Ahmadinejad wish sent by US Govt. Mind boggling foreign policy: kowtow & coddle enemies; snub allies. Obama Doctrine is nonsense
4 hours ago

148 Gus  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:55:15pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Oops.

149 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 2:29:34pm

re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote

You don’t have to be a lady bug.

I actually know a very dignified rebbitzen who goes as the cat in the hat every year. As to raucous - well there is the fact that it is the only holiday I know of where you are actually commanded to get blitzed.

The only thing that I don’t like about Purim, is that it does get kind of boring when there are no kids in the house. I told Zedushka that next Purim we must go to Toronto! (Because Israel and even New York are kind of pricey)

150 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 4:24:03pm

re: #8 Obdicut

There is a very good reason why we say “I’m going to be a dad!” when we learn our wives our pregnant. It’s because we’re not a dad yet.

Nonsense. I cared for my child as a father when he was in his mother’s womb from the get-go. There was no difference to my own self-image on day 1 when I got told or the day before he came out or the day after.

There’s a very good reason we don’t celebrate our conception days.

Because for millenia it’s been impossibly hard to be precise with that. Still is, for the most part. That’s why, duration of absence of technological means. Not on principle.

Even if one has a religious belief that a fetus has some special, non-medical property to it— a soul— there is no religion that treats every miscarried or spontaneously aborted fetus as though it was a person dying.

Pretty broad statement about all religions on earth in history. Do you have any authoritative source to back that up or did you just make it up on the go? By the way, en.wikipedia.org>en.wikipedia.org>counter example

151 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 4:29:01pm

This part of my post got eaten for some reason:

re: #8 Obdicut


Tradition is sometimes a very wise thing. Tradition shows us that, culturally, we have never considered a potential child as the same thing as a child.

Appeal to tradition is a fallacy. So is a appeal to culture (also known as O’Reillysm). Also, you are misrepresenting the argument (note: I do not agree with the argument, but I would not misrepresent it): It is not about whether a born child and an unborn child are the same thing but whether these different “things” deserve the same rights. And that debate is real and very much alive, even outside of wingnut circles (see here but also here).

152 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 4:33:52pm
Nonsense. I cared for my child as a father when he was in his mother’s womb from the get-go.

Did I say that one couldn’t imagine the child, project into the future, want it, care for it? No.


Because for millenia it’s been impossibly hard to be precise with that. Still is, for the most part. That’s why, duration of absence of technological means. Not on principle.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point.


Pretty broad statement about all religions on earth in history. Do you have any authoritative source to back that up or did you just make it up on the go? By the way, counter example

That isn’t a counter-example. That is an example of a religion that sees miscarriage as having a ‘soul’, and it’s intended to appease, comfort, or deal with that soul— it doesn’t treat it as though it was a person.

You really seem to be working very, very hard to ignore the main point of my argument:

We do not treat a pregnancy as though is a live birth because a pregnancy is, medically, statistically, and in every other way, not a live birth.

153 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 4:39:48pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Did I say that one couldn’t imagine the child, project into the future, want it, care for it? No.

Did I say that you said that? No.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point.

You seem to not have had much of one to begin with.

That isn’t a counter-example. That is an example of a religion that sees miscarriage as having a ‘soul’, and it’s intended to appease, comfort, or deal with that soul— it doesn’t treat it as though it was a person.

Having a soul is pretty much the definition of personhood in all cultures that are not secular.


We do not treat a pregnancy as though is a live birth because a pregnancy is, medically, statistically, and in every other way, not a live birth.

That’s a great tautology that you are stating there but I don’t think it was ever the point in any serious argument on the issue and thus just a little besides the point. Also, it was not at all the argument you were making (yours was concerned with the status of the “object” of the expecting woman — unborn vs born child — and not about the status of the expecting woman herself — pregnancy vs live birth).

154 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 4:40:12pm

re: #153 000G

GAZE

155 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Oct 29, 2010 4:40:33pm

re: #154 Obdicut

GAZE

*plonk*

156 heyou  Sat, Oct 30, 2010 10:46:23am

Hi,I practically never comment, but this bill is so crazy I just have to . Did anyone mention that this is the “moral equivelency” of the rightwing and it’s the one “equal rights movement” they support wholeheartedly. Also they cannot proclaim their judeochristian values anymore because this is very clearly against Jewish law. If fertilized eggs have an equal right to life as a pregnant women then what gives women the right to a life-saving abortion? Nothing equal rights baby. Rape victims forget about it. Have Cancer? No chemotherapy for you untill after you’ve given birth. etc etc etc. How bad does it have to get? If Americas going down it’s because of dreck like this.


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