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581 comments
1 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:36:38pm

Christine would not approve of Eerie.

2 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:37:03pm

Wow, those Eeries were going for nearly 3x the cover price of the usually featured Marvel titles from the era...hope they paid for themselves in terror sweat.

3 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:37:46pm

Badass cover is badass.

4 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:40:02pm

1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?

2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.

3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.

5 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:41:05pm

re: #4 Ojoe


3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.

What's bedtime without a little misogyny?

6 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:41:26pm

re: #4 Ojoe

1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?

2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.

3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.

Why the f*** do you care about "refudiation day" when you claim to hate both parties equally and only want the whigs to win?

It'd be like a social democrat in West Germany cheering about how they've got communist overlords now instead of facsist ones

7 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:41:27pm

re: #4 Ojoe

1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?

2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.

3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.

1. I dunno.

2. Refudiantion of sanity, indeed.

3. Hillary would win.

4. Night, Ojoe!

:)

8 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:44:28pm

re: #6 jamesfirecat

I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.

Good night.

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:45:32pm

re: #4 Ojoe

1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?

2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.

3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.

I'm amazed and appalled that you seem to think that electing this batch of weirdos, science-deniers, and religious fanatics is a good thing.

Sad.

10 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:45:33pm

re: #8 Ojoe

I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.

Good night.

But all that its proving is that the American people will midnlessly continue to vote for one of the two major parties even when it makes their situation worse.

Its sending a message that the whigs have no chacne because people don't care about the issues only brand labels....

11 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:45:57pm

re: #5 bratwurst

You saw it here first.

12 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:46:40pm

re: #9 Charles

I did not say I thought it was good.

13 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:48:33pm

re: #12 Ojoe

I did not say I thought it was good.

Maybe, but you encourage it...

re: #8 Ojoe

I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.

Good night.

14 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:48:34pm

Good Lord, I'm the reasonable righty.

God help us all.

/

15 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:49:02pm

re: #12 Ojoe

I did not say I thought it was good.

Might as well mix in some intellectual dishonesty with your misogyny, call it a cocktail.

16 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:49:04pm

re: #12 Ojoe

I did not say I thought it was good.

"I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns."

So you don't see something wrong with liking something that isn't good for America?

I guess this is the junk food of elections for you then....

17 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:50:35pm

2004 - Americans vote Republican President
2006 - Americans vote for Democrats in the House and Senate
2008 - Americans vote for Democrat President
2010 - Americans vote for Republicans in the House and Senate*

I see a pattern here. I think it's kind of funny because Americans went from being wide eyed and bushy tailed for Obama in 2008 and are now wide eyed and bushy tailed for Republicans 2010. Each party always taking their turn in being the proverbial "cavalry to the rescue." This pattern has been repeated for 100s of years and each party really affects little "change" that benefits the working people of this country. It will always remain business as usual and the priority still remain the wealthy elites and multi-national corporations.

18 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:51:32pm

re: #10 jamesfirecat

But all that its proving is that the American people will midnlessly continue to vote for one of the two major parties even when it makes their situation worse.

Its sending a message that the whigs have no chacne because people don't care about the issues only brand labels...

There is some truth to that- more than some, actually.

19 wee fury  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:51:59pm

I only had 9 kids come trick or treating. I have tons of candy left -- I am cyberly offering you all some. Enjoy!
And, I voted by absentee ballot. It had better count . . . but, you never know in MN.

20 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:52:33pm

re: #19 wee fury

I only had 9 kids come trick or treating. I have tons of candy left -- I am cyberly offering you all some. Enjoy!
And, I voted by absentee ballot. It had better count . . . but, you never know in MN.

You are now out of snickers.
/

21 Big Steve  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:53:30pm

It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago. Then when Obama did win, being the reasonable blog commenters that we are, we all wished him well. I do believe that we ought to give the winners on Tuesday the same chance and wish them well.

22 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:56:58pm

re: #17 Gus 802

2004 - Americans vote Republican President
2006 - Americans vote for Democrats in the House and Senate
2008 - Americans vote for Democrat President
2010 - Americans vote for Republicans in the House and Senate*

I see a pattern here. I think it's kind of funny because Americans went from being wide eyed and bushy tailed for Obama in 2008 and are now wide eyed and bushy tailed for Republicans 2010. Each party always taking their turn in being the proverbial "cavalry to the rescue." This pattern has been repeated for 100s of years and each party really affects little "change" that benefits the working people of this country. It will always remain business as usual and the priority still remain the wealthy elites and multi-national corporations.

Hence why its a good thing we passed that amendment which says nobody can serve more than two terms, as we'll never again have to go through the hell hole that was the Depression ending Nazi ass kicking WW2 winning hell hole of five terms worth of FDR.....

23 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:15pm

re: #21 Big Steve

It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago. Then when Obama did win, being the reasonable blog commenters that we are, we all wished him well. I do believe that we ought to give the winners on Tuesday the same chance and wish them well.

I'll give them a chance and wish that they manage to become reasonable... but I don't expect it to happen.

However I believe that most people who saw Obama as a radical (I openly admit to painting with a broad brush as I wasn't here (wasn't on LGF) for the Obama elections) were more buying into a preconcieved narrative being sold to them, were as with the tea party people its straight from the horses mouth.

(The most radical thing Obama said that I can remeber is that was he wanted to "Spread the wealth around" which is sort of what taxes are for anyway all things considered...)

24 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:24pm

re: #8 Ojoe

Well that's a destructive way of seeing things, saying that you like to watch people lose. Would you rather see things get done instead.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:31pm

re: #4 Ojoe

1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?

2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.

3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.

Sarah was fighting out of her weight class with Katie Couric. Do we really want to see what happens if she takes on Hillary?

Also, why would we not run the present incumbent in 2012?

26 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:45pm

re: #18 researchok

There is some truth to that- more than some, actually.

And I'm as depressed by it as you are...

27 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:00:18pm

re: #21 Big Steve

It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago.

I don't have quite the level of worry I did two years ago if Obama won. But you're right.

28 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:00:23pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

Sarah was fighting out of her weight class with Katie Couric. Do we really want to see what happens if she takes on Hillary?

Also, why would we not run the present incumbent in 2012?

Because the Democrats are all going to jump ship on Obama because he's been such a bad president that we don't think he has a chance winning a second term!

Or so we're told at least....

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:01:21pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

Because the Democrats are all going to jump ship on Obama because he's been such a bad president that we don't think he has a chance winning a second term!

Or so we're told at least...

When's the last time that happened?

30 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:02:18pm

I for one am happy to say boogata boogata! But then again I did grow up memorizing Poe.

31 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:02:24pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

When's the last time that happened?

You mean the incumbent not being elected by his party to a second term...

Umm.... er... uh... ah... give me a moment... I'm sure I can think of something...... was Gerald Ford nominated to run for a second term after he inherited it from Nixon and Agnew?

32 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:02:56pm

re: #21 Big Steve

It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago. Then when Obama did win, being the reasonable blog commenters that we are, we all wished him well. I do believe that we ought to give the winners on Tuesday the same chance and wish them well.

After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.

This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.

33 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:04:34pm

re: #32 Gus 802

After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.

This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.

Well see... some of those people seemed to be running just as much agianst the GOP as against the democrats after all...

34 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:04:48pm

re: #32 Gus 802

After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.

This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.

Thank you for that depressing dose of reality so close to bedtime.
//

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:05:10pm

re: #31 jamesfirecat

You mean the incumbent not being elected by his party to a second term...

Umm... er... uh... ah... give me a moment... I'm sure I can think of something... was Gerald Ford nominated to run for a second term after he inherited it from Nixon and Agnew?

Yes. He defeated Reagan for the nomination, then lost to Carter.

36 Big Steve  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:05:34pm

Saw both President Bush's sitting behind the backstop at the World Series tonight. Barbara Bush was keeping a box score. She and Bush 1 often take in Astro's games and you can see her keeping a box score there as well. I got to tell you that there are lots of pretty women at baseball games.....girls with their dates, player's wives, single moms who bring their kids.......but oh to find a lady that keeps a box score.....Barbara Bush you are something!

37 reine.de.tout  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:06:28pm

re: #14 researchok

Good Lord, I'm the reasonable righty.

God help us all.

/

LOL!

38 Big Steve  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:06:32pm

re: #32 Gus 802

True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.

39 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:06:37pm

Ah. I thought this was gonna be a Halloween thread and it's just politics again. Oh wait, there's a difference?

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:07:09pm

re: #38 Big Steve

True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.

Democrats simply don't have that kind of party discipline. That may be good or bad, but it's a real difference between the way the two parties operate.

41 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:08:17pm

re: #33 jamesfirecat

Well see... some of those people seemed to be running just as much agianst the GOP as against the democrats after all...

But they're still going to be freshman. Each of them will have to overcome a rather massive learning curve of the ins and outs of congressional procedures. They won't know what to do and their only option will be to subject themselves to the tutelage of senior GOP members. Neither will they be handed committee assignments just for being there. Those things take time.

42 Big Steve  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:09:42pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know....the Dems had to pretty much lock arms to get healthcare passed. They seemed pretty organized to me. As a moderate, I have noticed that each side thinks the other is a monolithic, Borg hive, mindlessly following orders. Neither side really is that good!

43 prairiefire  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:10:12pm

re: #39 Irenicum

Ah. I thought this was gonna be a Halloween thread and it's just politics again. Oh wait, there's a difference?

For you, "Annabelle Lee":[Link: www.romantic-lyrics.com...]

44 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:10:51pm

re: #43 prairiefire

Ha! I just read that last night.

45 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:11:05pm

re: #38 Big Steve

True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.

It's like SFZ said. The Democrats don't have that type of party discipline save Snowe and Collins. You'll find more Democrats voting against party lines in congress than Republicans. Republicans will typically vote as a block.

46 Obdicut  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:11:13pm

re: #38 Big Steve

True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.

Except they don't, so, actually, it's rather completely different.

47 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:11:35pm

re: #42 Big Steve

I don't know...the Dems had to pretty much lock arms to get healthcare passed. They seemed pretty organized to me. As a moderate, I have noticed that each side thinks the other is a monolithic, Borg hive, mindlessly following orders. Neither side really is that good!

Did you miss the part where it took us a year to get oragnized, and how we had people waffling back and forth to for it to against it and back again? A year during which the Republican position off 40/41 people saying and I quote "No" from start to finish...

Yeah those two are showing the exactly same level of party discipline....

48 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:12:24pm

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.

49 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:12:38pm

re: #32 Gus 802

After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.

This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.

OTher than to note that Snowe and Collins are in the Senate, that's a very accurate summation. It also works that way with Democrats. Whichever party you vote for, don't imagine that the 'young outsider' you just voted for is going to make too many waves. They'll talk like that till they get to DC, whereupon it will promptly be made clear to them that if they want to get things done they are expected to support the party line and not vote against that line without permission.

50 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:13:06pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.

Good point

51 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:13:10pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.

Even the ones from Blue states like Mr. 41 who owns a truck...

52 Obdicut  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:13:46pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.


... anymore. Since it did actually start out as a Republican idea. Though they all pretend real, real hard it didn't.

53 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:14:14pm

I don't know if this will play here, but here's a link to the Star Trek FB page of John de Lancie reading The Raven. Fabulous!

54 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:14:21pm

re: #52 Obdicut

... anymore. Since it did actually start out as a Republican idea. Though they all pretend real, real hard it didn't.

So did the federally mandated healthcare which was based in part of what Mitt Romney set up as Govenor, didn't it?

55 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:14:36pm

re: #52 Obdicut

... anymore. Since it did actually start out as a Republican idea. Though they all pretend real, real hard it didn't.

Didn't John McCain support cap and trade at one point?

56 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:17pm

re: #41 Gus 802

But they're still going to be freshman. Each of them will have to overcome a rather massive learning curve of the ins and outs of congressional procedures. They won't know what to do and their only option will be to subject themselves to the tutelage of senior GOP members. Neither will they be handed committee assignments just for being there. Those things take time.

True. Congress is run on a seniority system. The "old guard" is always in charge. This is also why committees are so often headed by very partisan congresspeople: Those from swing districts tend to be voted out before they can accumulate the needed seniority.

57 Obdicut  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:42pm

re: #55 Gus 802

Didn't John McCain support cap and trade at one point?

He did more than support it. He introduced a bill for it.

[Link: www.rff.org...]

But that's all forgotten by the GOP now, and they get really angry if you mention it.

58 prairiefire  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:47pm

re: #53 Irenicum

Thanks! Link works.

59 Big Steve  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:55pm

re: #47 jamesfirecat

Did you miss the part where it took us a year to get oragnized, and how we had people waffling back and forth to for it to against it and back again? A year during which the Republican position off 40/41 people saying and I quote "No" from start to finish...

Yeah those two are showing the exactly same level of party discipline...

Final Senate Vote for Healthcare:

Democrats 54 = Yes, 2 = No
Republicans, 3 = Yes, 40 = No

Regardless of the time, it was a tremendous effort of party unity on both sides.

60 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:59pm

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

61 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:17:29pm

Here you go. Healthcare reform vote from March.

Voting yes were 219 Democrats and 0 Republicans.
Voting no were 34 Democrats and 178 Republicans.

Which means zero Republicans voted against the party. But you can see that 34 Democrats voted across party line.

62 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:17:57pm

re: #58 prairiefire

John de Lancie does a wonderful job.

63 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:18:04pm

re: #59 Big Steve

Final Senate Vote for Healthcare:

Democrats 54 = Yes, 2 = No
Republicans, 3 = Yes, 40 = No

Regardless of the time, it was a tremendous effort of party unity on both sides.

That's not the the "vote that matters" though.

That can't be the cloture vote because the Democrats couldn't have passed it with only 57 votes.

Show me the cloture vote numbers...

64 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:19:05pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.

Mark Kirk voted for it as a congressman, but has since announced he will vote against it if elected to the Senate. In Illinois the GOP needs a strong majority in the coal mining counties to counteract the Democrats urban strength. So no statewide Republican candidate can support cap and trade in this state and win.

65 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:19:56pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Mark Kirk voted for it as a congressman, but has since announced he will vote against it if elected to the Senate. In Illinois the GOP needs a strong majority in the coal mining counties to counteract the Democrats urban strength. So no statewide Republican candidate can support cap and trade in this state and win.

Hey really should stay a congressman where he can vote what he actually thinks then.

But we've already had this argument back and forth so lets not have it again....

66 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:20:15pm

re: #61 Gus 802

Here you go. Healthcare reform vote from March.

Voting yes were 219 Democrats and 0 Republicans.
Voting no were 34 Democrats and 178 Republicans.

Which means zero Republicans voted against the party. But you can see that 34 Democrats voted across party line.

You don't want to see those numbers now.
/

67 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:22:03pm

re: #60 Charles

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

Pathetic, aren't they?

68 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:23:58pm

re: #60 Charles

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

Can't you take ownership of that page?

69 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:26:12pm

re: #68 Alouette

Unfortunately that's not how wiki works.

70 reine.de.tout  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:27:57pm

re: #60 Charles

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

They sure are, aren't they?

May I quote a piece of it? (I've bolded one sentence).

Deliberate reediting of posts
Johnson's opponents have claimed that many of his claimed justifications for removing certain people, the claim that they made "abusive" or racist posts, were the result of Johnson re-editing the post[42] after the fact to justify his actions.

He has also been consistently going back and removing old posts [43] from his site since the change in blog focus from right-wing to left-wing.

While this is difficult to verify, Johnson has many times engaged in provocation by re-editing posts behind the scenes, such as a recent thread where he removes all the vowels from someone he has just blocked [44]. Johnson's proven and demonstrated quick editing capabilities make any claim by him that someone made a certain post, and that the post is unedited by Johnson, impossible to trust or verify.

This whole thing is just crap.

And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.

"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")

"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..." -

Charles - you remove vowels from people?
That's some kind of good trick . . .

71 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:28:48pm

re: #69 Irenicum

Unfortunately that's not how wiki works.

I don't know how wiki works. But surely it can't be a free-for-all? Don't editors have to be approved?

Or am I just hopeless clueless about wiki.

72 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:28:55pm

re: #70 reine.de.tout

He needs his own fire department.

73 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:29:24pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.

Thank God for that. It's a terrible idea.

74 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:30:47pm

re: #71 Alouette

It's an open source network. They do have oversight, but on more controversial posts it can get pretty wild.

75 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:31:44pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

Thank God for that. It's a terrible idea.

Quite Concur. I'm actually glad the GOP turned against it, but I wish they had not turn against all AGW science as well.

76 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:31:59pm

re: #70 reine.de.tout


This whole thing is just crap.

And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.

"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")

"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..." -

Charles - you remove vowels from people?
That's some kind of good trick . . .

He'd better not...if he takes my I out, there will be hell to pay//

77 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:32:09pm

re: #70 reine.de.tout

No wonder I've been having vowel movement problems!

78 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:33:20pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. I'm actually glad the GOP turned against it, but I wish they had not turn against all AGW science as well.

Yep. Because then i say that a pigovian solution is far preferable and i lose 94.67% of Republicans...

79 Digital Display  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:33:25pm

Giants win tonight!
Giants win tonight! Be back after I call Pops and my Kids!
Giants win tonight! Yahoo!

80 reine.de.tout  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:33:45pm

re: #76 Aceofwhat?

He'd better not...if he takes my I out, there will be hell to pay//

Heheheh.
It's right there in the article.
Charles has the power to remove vowels from people
I honestly didn't know people had vowels.


re: #77 Irenicum

No wonder I've been having vowel movement problems!

Damn! Why couldn't I have thought of that? LOL.

81 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:34:06pm

re: #70 reine.de.tout

They sure are, aren't they?

May I quote a piece of it? (I've bolded one sentence).

This whole thing is just crap.

And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.

"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")

"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..." -

Charles - you remove vowels from people?
That's some kind of good trick . . .

Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

82 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:35:55pm

* for *one d*on't h*v* *ny pr*bl*ms w*th my p*sts.

83 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:36:13pm

re: #81 Charles

Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Well, it's a good thing that his username doesn't imply any sort of stalkerish agenda on this subject.

9_9

84 reine.de.tout  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:36:36pm

"MadKingChucky" needs to go back and finish grammar school.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:37:32pm
86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:39:25pm

re: #70 reine.de.tout

Charles - you remove vowels from people?

H tk yr jrb!
/

87 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:39:44pm

Kilroy was there.

;)

88 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:41:33pm

re: #84 reine.de.tout

"MadKingChucky" needs to go back and finish grammar school.

but it's serious...

89 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:41:48pm

Charles the disemvoweler! Next on Fox!

Stalker/former lizard: Hep me, hep me! I'z been disemvoweled!

90 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:46:02pm

re: #81 Charles

Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Embrace your aristocratic self.

How about referring to yourself as (Select one. Or two)

Prince of Pundits
The Regent of Reason
The Duke of Discourse
The Earl of Earnest
Royal Keeper of Stinky Beaumont (that comes with hazard pay)

More later. Maybe.

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:46:18pm

re: #60 Charles

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, pathetic, and petty.

I don't like my ex-girlfriend one bit, the �%$@!, but you know what I did? I got well the fuck away from her and have kept it that way.

92 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:47:26pm

re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, pathetic, and petty.

I don't like my ex-girlfriend one bit, the �%$@!, but you know what I did? I got well the fuck away from her and have kept it that way.

She said that exact same thing on Jerry Springer!!

///

93 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:48:21pm

re: #36 Big Steve

Saw both President Bush's sitting behind the backstop at the World Series tonight. Barbara Bush was keeping a box score. She and Bush 1 often take in Astro's games and you can see her keeping a box score there as well. I got to tell you that there are lots of pretty women at baseball games...girls with their dates, player's wives, single moms who bring their kids...but oh to find a lady that keeps a box score...Barbara Bush you are something!

I don't remember old Barbra getting political when she was in the White House. Nice to see her working one of those new film-less cameras.

94 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:48:47pm

re: #81 Charles

Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Swamp of Fever (with apologies to "Moon River")

Swamp of Fever,
Full of trollish bile.
Where hatred is in style, to stay.
You bunch of fakers,
You Lame Threat makers,
Don't care where you're going,
Just please go away.

Group of haters,
Off to hate the world,
they've got lots of in-sanit-y.
They're after the same dead end,
going 'round the bend,
losers without a friend.
Fever Swamp creepy.

95 darthstar  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:48:58pm

Texas was shut out at home only once at home all season, by the Oakland A's. Now the Giants have done it too.

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:49:02pm

re: #92 researchok

I wouldn't put it past her. Seriously.

97 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:49:17pm

re: #92 researchok

She said that exact same thing on Jerry Springer!!

///

SMACK!

98 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:49:45pm

re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't put it past her. Seriously.

I think I dated her sister.
/

99 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:50:39pm

re: #95 darthstar

Texas was shut out at home only once at home all season, by the Oakland A's. Now the Giants have done it too.

before i forget...i could have told you a month ago that Troy was the best QB on your roster.

100 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:50:45pm

re: #98 researchok

That was her mom.
/

101 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:52:42pm

re: #100 Slumbering Behemoth

That was her mom.
/

LOL

102 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:54:20pm

re: #93 joest73

I don't remember old Barbra getting political when she was in the White House. Nice to see her working one of those new film-less cameras.

No she kept out of politics.

On Iraq
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

103 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:55:47pm

Sick of seeing TMNT costumes? Tough shit!

/although technically that's not a turtle costume.

104 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:56:24pm

re: #102 ozbloke

No she kept out of politics.

On Iraq
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

If you go to your own link, you'll see she was talking about the speculation over possible deaths, not about actual deaths.

105 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:01:55pm

Spreading the wealth around
Image: 610x.jpg

106 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:02:13pm

re: #102 ozbloke

No she kept out of politics.

On Iraq
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

Snopes? Wow you really couldn't find anything....could you?

107 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:04pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Spreading the wealth around
Image: 610x.jpg

Obama stands by without action as undead monsters and reanimated hunks of criminals menace the populace of our fair nation!

108 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:20pm
109 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:21pm

re: #104 EmmmieG

If you go to your own link, you'll see she was talking about the speculation over possible deaths, not about actual deaths.

EmmmieG,

Are you telling me that after the war commenced, then Barbara would have that we all should all think about body bags and death?

Was that the main thrust of what she was saying?

110 Interesting Times  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:23pm

re: #104 EmmmieG

If you go to your own link, you'll see she was talking about the speculation over possible deaths, not about actual deaths.

It's still a stunningly tone-deaf and callous comment. But this one, about Hurricane Katrina refugees forced to flee to Houston, is even worse:

And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them.

Disgustingly condescending and insensitive.

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:04:16pm

re: #107 jamesfirecat

Obama stands by without action as undead monsters and reanimated hunks of criminals menace the populace of our fair nation!

He was either

a. Giving out refined sugar garbage food to rot the teeth of our fair schoolchildren

or

b. A big old meany-meany who would give out healthy food on Halloween.

I'm voting for b in light of Michelle's anti-obesity campaign.

112 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:06:14pm

re: #110 publicityStunted

It's still a stunningly tone-deaf and callous comment. But this one, about Hurricane Katrina refugees forced to flee to Houston, is even worse:

Disgustingly condescending and insensitive.

"were underprivileged"? I guess being forced to live in a sports stadium makes them overprivileged now....

113 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:07:20pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Halloween is Socialism!
/or is it Communism?
/or Marxism?
/or Fascism
/or Maoism (no, that's reserved for Xmas trees)

114 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:07:47pm

re: #110 publicityStunted

It's still a stunningly tone-deaf and callous comment. But this one, about Hurricane Katrina refugees forced to flee to Houston, is even worse:

Disgustingly condescending and insensitive.

Stinks of someone thinking they are better than the masses.

Just my view...
It would have been better not said...

Imagine if Michelle said it, there would be riots in the streets.

115 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:09:31pm

re: #109 ozbloke

EmmmieG,

Are you telling me that after the war commenced, then Barbara would have that we all should all think about body bags and death?

Was that the main thrust of what she was saying?

She was commenting on the media coverage, not the war. Read the Snopes article.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:10:23pm

re: #71 Alouette

I don't know how wiki works. But surely it can't be a free-for-all? Don't editors have to be approved?

Or am I just hopeless clueless about wiki.

It is a free-for-all in many ways. You can just sign up to be an editor. One of my students had a seventh-grade teacher who taught her kids never to use Wiki by signing up as an editor and letting the class edit the octopus article to say they all have seven legs.

I once was helping a kid with a social studies project, and she opened Wiki's WWI page only to learn that "World War I was bloody and full of boogers".

117 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:10:30pm

re: #81 Charles

I am constantly amazed at what you have to put up with.
And, that you have the heart & power to put up with it.

118 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:10:51pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

It is a free-for-all in many ways. You can just sign up to be an editor. One of my students had a seventh-grade teacher who taught her kids never to use Wiki by signing up as an editor and letting the class edit the octopus article to say they all have seven legs.

I once was helping a kid with a social studies project, and she opened Wiki's WWI page only to learn that "World War I was bloody and full of boogers".

No its snot!

119 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:11:48pm

re: #111 EmmmieG

You're not trying hard enough. You see, this is an example of the Obamas' hypocrisy and flip-flopping. First they wants to tell Americans what they can feed their kids by pretending to grow their own vegetables (yeah, right!), then they turn around and try to shove fattening treats down the throats of American children. They've got us coming and going, the pathological liars!

/bet me a wingnut blogger doesn't run with something like that

120 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:14:41pm

re: #119 Slumbering Behemoth

SIEU, ACORN and George Soros are manipulating the sugar industry!

121 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:15:50pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

And the ADA are the puppet masters behind the whole, evil conspiracy.

/BIG DENTISTRY IS RIPPING US OFF!!!

122 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:16:27pm

re: #115 EmmmieG

She was commenting on the media coverage, not the war. Read the Snopes article.

I'm sorry, you can write it off like that, thats your right.

I am not contesting your point, but in war you are sending your sons and daughters to fight, it is a 'big f#@ken deal'.

Her concern was for the suffering of her son and her mind, nothing more.

123 researchok  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:16:33pm

I'm outta here.

manana

124 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:16:33pm

re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth

And the ADA are the puppet masters behind the whole, evil conspiracy.

/BIG DENTISTRY IS RIPPING US OFF!!!

I am the milk man, my milk is delicious.

125 Idle Drifter  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:17:43pm

A lighter video in the spirit of Halloween. Chances are I'll be called an anti-Christ for it. Happy Halloween for those still enjoying the festival! And today is All Saints Day with tomorrow All Souls Day.

126 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:18:13pm

re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, they do support the subversion of our bodily fluids through fluoridation.

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:18:58pm

re: #124 jamesfirecat

I am the milk man, my milk is delicious.

Wanna make something of it?

128 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:19:02pm

re: #114 ozbloke

Stinks of someone thinking they are better than the masses.

Just my view...
It would have been better not said...

Imagine if Michelle said it, there would be riots in the streets.

Barbara Bush was born rich. It's not so much that she thinks she's better than them, but rather that she has no emotional knowledge of the lives of the poor. She does her best to relate, but the lives of the Katrina refugees were so far removed from her experience that she was clueless.

And its worth noting that those Katrina refugees who stayed in Houston mostly found themselves much better off than they had been in New Orleans. To a great degree this is because Houston is a city that actually takes crime prevention seriously.

129 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:19:03pm

re: #126 freetoken

Well, they do support the subversion of our bodily fluids through fluoridation.

They even fluoridate ice cream mandrake, children's ice cream!

130 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:19:49pm

re: #126 freetoken

See, man? Wheels within wheels, brother, wheels within wheels.
/

131 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:20:46pm

YAH! Last of the Halloween Candy is gone!

132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:21:25pm

re: #131 Floral Giraffe

YAH! Last of the Halloween Candy is gone!

You don't win a prize for eating all of it, you know.
/

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:22:44pm

re: #132 Slumbering Behemoth

You don't win a prize for eating all of it, you know.
/

You don't? Crap.

134 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:22:46pm

darn it if Maddow doesn't have her own type of newscutie hotness

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:23:04pm

re: #134 BigPapa

darn it if Maddow doesn't have her own type of newscutie hotness

My father adores Rachel Maddow.

136 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:23:05pm

re: #122 ozbloke

I'm sorry, you can write it off like that, thats your right.

I am not contesting your point, but in war you are sending your sons and daughters to fight, it is a 'big f#@ken deal'.

Her concern was for the suffering of her son and her mind, nothing more.

I'm not writing off anything. I'm paraphrasing the link you posted. She was talking about media coverage before the Iraq war, and why she didn't watch it.

137 jaunte  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:23:59pm

re: #134 BigPapa

She's got great brains.

138 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:24:35pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

Barbara Bush was born rich. It's not so much that she thinks she's better than them, but rather that she has no emotional knowledge of the lives of the poor. She does her best to relate, but the lives of the Katrina refugees were so far removed from her experience that she was clueless.
.

Hi DF,

I accept that, well said.
Do you think that in all her years, if it was of ANY interest to her that she may have either had time of found time to do work paid or voluntary that could have given her a better understanding.

Also, if she did not do that, why not?

If she did do the voluntary work and is still clueless what does that say about her?

When I hear statements like these from people of influence, I am left jaw droppingly dumbfounded.

139 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:26:42pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

Barbara Bush was born rich. It's not so much that she thinks she's better than them, but rather that she has no emotional knowledge of the lives of the poor. She does her best to relate, but the lives of the Katrina refugees were so far removed from her experience that she was clueless.

I was going to say something like this but you said it better. I don't think she's someone that doesn't care and thinks she's better in a malicious sort of way. That comment was striking and did make me go 'ugh' at the ignorance contained within it but I didn't get that she said it without the sincerest of intents. She was just out of her league and like many people of her station and lifestyle generally ignorant of what life is like in anything more then the most superficial sense. Some people translate this into sheer snobbery and meanness. Barbra Bush does not strike me as that type.

140 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:27:03pm

re: #134 BigPapa

I really don't find her a cutie at all myself. Eye of the Beholder and all that.

But she is sharp, and does some excellent work, which is really the important thing. I've really warmed up to her over the last year or so. She's nailed some important stuff rather well.

141 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:27:18pm

re: #132 Slumbering Behemoth

You don't win a prize for eating all of it, you know.
/

I do win a prize for not eating ANY of it, though?
WOOT!
Last kids to get candy, were told to empty the bowl!
GET THOSE EVIL CANDIES AWAY FROM ME!
(Kit Kat bars & Smarties! FG gives good candy!)
LOL!

142 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:28:41pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon


And its worth noting that those Katrina refugees who stayed in Houston mostly found themselves much better off than they had been in New Orleans. To a great degree this is because Houston is a city that actually takes crime prevention seriously.

2nd paragraph.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

For people without money what is it that you think they value most.

I think its thinks like family, small possessions, photographs, places, memories.

The things that mattered to a lot of these folk was gone...
Forever.

Dark, you are a good hearted man, think about what I said.
These people lost family, photographs, places that they grew up. For what, what do you think that they gained?

Do you think if they could go back pre Katrina they wouldn't?

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:28:41pm

re: #141 Floral Giraffe

I do win a prize for not eating ANY of it, though?

Fine, I'll give you a kiss. I'll even shave first.

144 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:29:43pm

re: #138 ozbloke

Hi DF,

I accept that, well said.
Do you think that in all her years, if it was of ANY interest to her that she may have either had time of found time to do work paid or voluntary that could have given her a better understanding.

Also, if she did not do that, why not?

If she did do the voluntary work and is still clueless what does that say about her?

When I hear statements like these from people of influence, I am left jaw droppingly dumbfounded.

Bush Family History

"Mrs. Bush became involved in community volunteer work in Midland, an enthusiasm she continued throughout her life."

"Mrs. Bush began nationally promoting the cause of literacy while her husband was Vice President, a passion that continues today in her position as Honorary Chairman of the Barbara Bush Foundation for Family Literacy. Mrs. Bush’s civic-minded advocacy of volunteerism and community service and her role as a beloved wife and mother have earned her a special place in America’s heart."

145 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:29:53pm

re: #137 jaunte

She's got great brains.

She's obviously very sharp. I fell a little in love when she was interviewing Art Robinson, though it went a little too long.

146 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:30:20pm

re: #138 ozbloke

Hi DF,

I accept that, well said.
Do you think that in all her years, if it was of ANY interest to her that she may have either had time of found time to do work paid or voluntary that could have given her a better understanding.

Also, if she did not do that, why not?

If she did do the voluntary work and is still clueless what does that say about her?

When I hear statements like these from people of influence, I am left jaw droppingly dumbfounded.

Going and doing voluntary work on principle does not guarantee some sort of in depth insight into the lives of people no matter who you are.

147 jaunte  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:30:42pm

re: #137 jaunte

She's got great brains.

By the way, this isn't intended as some kind of put-down of Maddow's attractiveness, it's just the best part.

Good night all.

148 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:30:53pm

re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth

See, man? Wheels within wheels, brother, wheels within wheels.
/

149 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:33:47pm

re: #147 jaunte

Oy, same goes for my #140. It's just that her looks aren't the first thing that jump to my mind when I hear her name.

150 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:33:49pm

re: #138 ozbloke

I think it's pretty hard for "some one of means" who deals with "folks of lesser means" to truly understand what their lives are like. It's just unfathomable. As an example, my Mom is now living at her home, with a 24/7 care giver. Nice lady, friendly, polite, fully engaged, good driver, can't make change. Yes, can not count money. AMAZING. Didn't know people like that existed.

151 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:34:03pm

re: #142 ozbloke

2nd paragraph.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

For people without money what is it that you think they value most.

I think its thinks like family, small possessions, photographs, places, memories.

The things that mattered to a lot of these folk was gone...
Forever.

Dark, you are a good hearted man, think about what I said.
These people lost family, photographs, places that they grew up. For what, what do you think that they gained?

Do you think if they could go back pre Katrina they wouldn't?

Many would, some would not. Some of them do mourn what they lost, but came to realize that Houston is a better place to raise a family. Better schools and lower crime made many people grateful for the change of venue. People who are without want a better future for their children. And sad to say, New Orleans is still having major trouble providing that future. That's why some refugees stayed in Houston.

152 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:35:07pm

re: #60 Charles

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

That's what Wikipedia is good for.

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:35:38pm

Well, this an interesting political commercial...

154 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:37:11pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

CYBORG!!

155 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:37:33pm

re: #136 EmmmieG

I'm not writing off anything. I'm paraphrasing the link you posted. She was talking about media coverage before the Iraq war, and why she didn't watch it.

Yes, she is speaking of the media:
I watch none. He [former President Bush] sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don't take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we're talking about the news.
And he's not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that.
But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose?
Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant.
So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer.

But the bolded part was her concern.

156 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:37:42pm

re: #146 Jadespring

Going and doing voluntary work on principle does not guarantee some sort of in depth insight into the lives of people no matter who you are.

True. The view presented to upper-class volunteers has normally been fairly sanitized, in the interests of not scaring them away. So someone like Barbara Bush may know that the poor have serious problems, but I doubt she understood them depths of those problems.

157 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:39:22pm

re: #155 ozbloke

Yes, she is speaking of the media:
I watch none. He [former President Bush] sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don't take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we're talking about the news.
And he's not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that.
But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose?
Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant.
So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer.

You bolded that. I looked and saw the "90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition." What I take from this is that she didn't feel like getting worked up about people guessing.

But the bolded part was her concern.

158 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:39:57pm

For Halloween:

Christopher Walken reading the Raven

159 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:40:34pm

re: #157 EmmmieG

Oops. My reply was in the middle of your comment, not at the end. Sorry.

160 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:41:09pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

True. The view presented to upper-class volunteers has normally been fairly sanitized, in the interests of not scaring them away. So someone like Barbara Bush may know that the poor have serious problems, but I doubt she understood them depths of those problems.

You mean like movie stars bailing water in New Orleans?

161 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:41:25pm

This is hilarious.

Karma: -261
GapDude

This user is blocked.

Registered since: Oct 31, 2010 at 10:56 am
No. of comments posted: 27
No. of Pages posted: 0

Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.

162 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:41:53pm

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I think it's pretty hard for "some one of means" who deals with "folks of lesser means" to truly understand what their lives are like. It's just unfathomable. As an example, my Mom is now living at her home, with a 24/7 care giver. Nice lady, friendly, polite, fully engaged, good driver, can't make change. Yes, can not count money. AMAZING. Didn't know people like that existed.

I met a girl in Uni who had never been to a grocery store. She said their cook always did the shopping. So she came with me after school. It was pretty hilarious. She was cool though and recognized it for what it was. I gave her a shopping lesson.

163 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:42:03pm

re: #161 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.

Some people have lofty goals and achieve them..:)

164 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:42:17pm

re: #161 Gus 802

I missed it. It must have had heartburn over something?

165 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:42:43pm

re: #164 freetoken

I missed it. It must have had heartburn over something?

Yeah, everything.

166 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:43:45pm

re: #146 Jadespring

Going and doing voluntary work on principle does not guarantee some sort of in depth insight into the lives of people no matter who you are.

Hi Jadespring,

I do hope your arm has recovered.

Apparently you are correct with Barbara.

Do you think that those who volunteer in different parts of the social scale, and different countries in the world would gain different experiences.

As the volunteers I work with come back changed forever.

167 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:43:58pm

re: #165 Gus 802

Yeah, everything.


Didn't like the furniture, eh?

168 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:44:13pm

re: #161 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.

What thread did he show up on?

169 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:44:38pm

re: #161 Gus 802

Well, ya can't say he didn't work for it.

170 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:44:48pm

re: #161 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.

Almost 300 lower than me....oh no.....

171 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:45:02pm

re: #167 freetoken

Didn't like the furniture, eh?

Oh he went off with some half cocked idea about rare earths mining, the Chinese, liberals, Democrats, environmentalists, etc.

172 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:45:05pm

re: #165 Gus 802

Yeah, everything.


Well not everything his main beef was that we didn't care when the liberals fudged numbers such as how Obama promised us that the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8% and then he tried very very hard to convince us that envrionmentalists were putting the nation at risk by shutting down our last rare earth metal mine forcing us to buy our REs from China....

173 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:45:19pm

re: #162 Jadespring

I met a girl in Uni who had never been to a grocery store. She said their cook always did the shopping. So she came with me after school. It was pretty hilarious. She was cool though and recognized it for what it was. I gave her a shopping lesson.

The all time best anthem for these people

174 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:46:07pm

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

You mean like movie stars bailing water in New Orleans?

Some people either evade the filters set up or go out and see things for themselves. but most people will take the view presented to them and not really question it.

175 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:46:10pm

I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?

176 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:46:44pm

re: #172 jamesfirecat

Well not everything his main beef was that we didn't care when the liberals fudged numbers such as how Obama promised us that the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8% and then he tried very very hard to convince us that envrionmentalists were putting the nation at risk by shutting down our last rare earth metal mine forcing us to buy our REs from China... he was a partisan asshole.

Sorry, just trying to help.

177 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:47:05pm

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I think it's pretty hard for "some one of means" who deals with "folks of lesser means" to truly understand what their lives are like. It's just unfathomable. As an example, my Mom is now living at her home, with a 24/7 care giver. Nice lady, friendly, polite, fully engaged, good driver, can't make change. Yes, can not count money. AMAZING. Didn't know people like that existed.

Hi FG,

Then maybe they should get out more, or perhaps think twice about speaking publicly.

G_d Bless the care givers...

178 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:47:10pm

re: #175 Irenicum

CFP is a northern, slightly less apocalyptically religious version of WND.

179 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:47:36pm

re: #176 BigPapa

Sorry, just trying to help.

Well I figured not everyone wants the cliff note's version...

180 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:48:17pm

re: #162 Jadespring

Amazing, when you think about it.
How different our lives can be!
And, background isn't usually considered.
But, it's so important, that context link!

181 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:48:21pm

re: #170 joest73

Almost 300 lower than me...oh no...

You're already down to -531? Anyway, this guy just signed up today and went off on a trolling rage right away.

182 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:48:47pm

re: #178 freetoken

Yeah, seriously. Wow. Bad crazy up yonder.

183 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:11pm

re: #167 freetoken

Didn't like the furniture, eh?

Peed on the carpet.
Another very lame troll!

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:21pm

re: #181 Gus 802

Sockpuppets trying to feel their oats on this, the most hated of all American traditions.

185 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:27pm

re: #181 Gus 802

You're already down to -531? Anyway, this guy just signed up today and went off on a trolling rage right away.

Yep....walking the fine line......

186 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:50pm

re: #175 Irenicum

I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?

I just poke fun at birthers now, based on this very simple principle:

Ridicule may be lawfully employed where reason has no hope of success.

187 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:51:35pm

re: #185 joest73

Yep...walking the fine line...

If its any concelation from what I understand Space Jesus spent years with his karma in the red and he's still here....

188 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:51:37pm

re: #175 Irenicum

I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?

Why the heck are you spending time on that?
Seriously..

189 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:13pm

re: #159 EmmmieG

Oops. My reply was in the middle of your comment, not at the end. Sorry.

EmmmieG

Please don't be sorry, I think your #157 reads perfectly.
Freudian slip?
:)

190 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:19pm

re: #186 eclectic infidel

I just poke fun at birthers now, based on this very simple principle:

Ridicule may be lawfully employed where reason has no hope of success.

Why do you think Jon Stewart is such a popular figure in contemporary politics?

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:24pm

re: #170 joest73

Almost 300 lower than me...oh no...

You are far less aggravating. Trust me.

192 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:33pm

re: #166 ozbloke

Hi Jadespring,

I do hope your arm has recovered.

Apparently you are correct with Barbara.

Do you think that those who volunteer in different parts of the social scale, and different countries in the world would gain different experiences.

As the volunteers I work with come back changed forever.

Thanks my arm is fine now. :)

And yes I do think different sort of volunteer work makes for different experiences. I should have qualified my comment with a 'depends of what it is'. I'm not knocking any sort of volunteer work at all but there is a difference between doing monthly stints serving at a soup kitchen and organizing at a food bank verses say going overseas and basically immersing yourself with whomever you are volunteering for in terms of what you are exposed too.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:53:46pm

re: #187 jamesfirecat

If its any concelation from what I understand Space Jesus spent years with his karma in the red and he's still here...

Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...

194 jamesfirecat  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:54:18pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...

Just goes to show that Charles is tough but fair...

195 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:55:27pm

SpaceJesus is a clear example of the Golden LGF Rule: don't be an asshole. I saw some weird posts for many times, serious downdinging, but I never saw him be an asshole.

196 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:55:32pm

re: #194 jamesfirecat

Just goes to show that Charles is tough but fair...

I guess it's a matter of playing it cool. Meaning that one can have seriously negative Karma but if they avoid the obvious like taunting our host, getting personal, overt trolling, etc.

197 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:57:05pm

re: #162 Jadespring

I met a girl in Uni who had never been to a grocery store. She said their cook always did the shopping. So she came with me after school. It was pretty hilarious. She was cool though and recognized it for what it was. I gave her a shopping lesson.

I know some people like that too. I am the guy that clips the coupons every week and does the shopping for my wife. I'm an engineer....I can remember prices on everything. I also see, especially this time of the month, people that are using the access card load up shopping carts of food while I watch every penny.

My mother is a cashier at a wal-mart. She told me that it is amazing how many people are on government assistance now.

198 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:57:55pm

re: #175 Irenicum

I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?

Yes that is definitely a kooky site. Love the Obama leaves office countdown clock on the side bar. I'm thinking it's probably just a wee bit biased in one direction.

199 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:58:53pm

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but this, to me, is incredibly racist

200 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:58:59pm

Good night. Don't let the vampires bite.

201 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:59:19pm

re: #200 EmmmieG

Good night. Don't let the vampires bite.

Unless they ask nicely.

202 webevintage  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:59:33pm

Walking dead...zombiegasm....

203 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:59:59pm

re: #197 joest73

I know some people like that too. I am the guy that clips the coupons every week and does the shopping for my wife. I'm an engineer...I can remember prices on everything. I also see, especially this time of the month, people that are using the access card load up shopping carts of food while I watch every penny.

My mother is a cashier at a wal-mart. She told me that it is amazing how many people are on government assistance now.

Whats the access card?

204 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:00:51pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...

And now, he's a beloved pet, for many!
LOL!
He does present his views in a polite manner, and is open for discussion.
Never been trollish, that I have seen.

205 ozbloke  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:01:32pm

re: #192 Jadespring

Thanks my arm is fine now. :)

And yes I do think different sort of volunteer work makes for different experiences. I should have qualified my comment with a 'depends of what it is'. I'm not knocking any sort of volunteer work at all but there is a difference between doing monthly stints serving at a soup kitchen and organizing at a food bank verses say going overseas and basically immersing yourself with whomever you are volunteering for in terms of what you are exposed too.

Jadespring,

My heritage is British Indian, my family left India when slavery was abolished, my father had 15 servants in his home growing up.

I can not stand their mentality, I am the black sheep...

Barbara comments come across like English royalty, I'm sorry if I offend but it rubs me.

206 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:02:40pm

re: #183 Floral Giraffe

Peed on the carpet.
Another very lame troll!

But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :D

207 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:02:40pm

re: #203 Jadespring

Whats the access card?

Sorry....here in PA it is the EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer), or food stamp card.

208 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:02:41pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

You are far less aggravating. Trust me.

EVERYONE is, far less aggravating than you are.
You are a joy, IMHO.

209 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:03:17pm

re: #199 PT Barnum

I don't know about it being racist, doesn't seem like it to me, but it certainly is fear mongering. Think "Cold War with the Soviets". It's a revival of that theme, and a lame one at that.

210 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:04:29pm

re: #188 Floral Giraffe

I didn't realize at first that what he referenced was a birther/nutter site. I knew he was quite conservative, just didn't know he went for the crazy stuff.

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:04:52pm

re: #208 Floral Giraffe

EVERYONE is, far less aggravating than you are.

Come again? Heh.

212 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:05:34pm

re: #209 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know about it being racist, doesn't seem like it to me, but it certainly is fear mongering. Think "Cold War with the Soviets". It's a revival of that theme, and a lame one at that.

My wife had the exact same reaction that I did. Swarthy orientals gloating over our misfortune. Would have been right at home in the darkest paranoia of WWII if you substituted the Japanese.

213 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:05:45pm

re: #205 ozbloke

Jadespring,

My heritage is British Indian, my family left India when slavery was abolished, my father had 15 servants in his home growing up.

I can not stand their mentality, I am the black sheep...

Barbara comments come across like English royalty, I'm sorry if I offend but it rubs me.

Hey no problem. I get it. I'm not offended at all.

214 Irenicum  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:05:47pm

re: #200 EmmmieG

That comment sucks.

215 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:06:18pm

Well goonite...I gotta go to bed.

216 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:07:11pm

re: #199 PT Barnum

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but this, to me, is incredibly racist

[Video]

I didn't see it as racist but maybe it's there. It's the usual Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theory. The Chinese hold 20 percent of foreign holders of our debt. Equal to the Japanese. We all remember the "Japan is going to take over" fear mongering from the 80s. Now they both hold the same amount of debt.

This is the top 4 from the US Treasury:

China, Mainland 868.4
Japan 836.6
United Kingdom 448.4
Oil Exporters 226.6

217 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:08:53pm

re: #207 joest73

Sorry...here in PA it is the EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer), or food stamp card.

Ah okay. I figured it was something like that but thought I should check.

218 Gus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:10:57pm

I need to watch some Outsourced and Hitchcock on Hulu.

Good night folks.

219 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:11:09pm

re: #216 Gus 802

Which means the American average household owes China about $8k.

Maybe all those ultra-cheap toys at Walmart aren't worth it after all?

220 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:15:30pm

re: #8 Ojoe

I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.

Good night.

It's the only way the Modern Whigs will get any traction.

Problem is they've got the Greens and Libertarians (and Tea Party?) to contend with as potential third parties.

221 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:20:44pm

re: #216 Gus 802

Plus, they're commies. Can't forget that layer.

222 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:21:19pm

re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth

She is a HUGE good contributor to LGF.
Never annoying.
You contribute too.
Nicely.

223 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:22:20pm

Can anyone explain to me how the gop is gonna balance the budget?

If tax hikes, military cuts, entitlement cuts are all off the table, how does the revenue shortfall get corrected?

224 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:23:28pm

re: #222 Floral Giraffe

It's the way you worded that first line, friend, that had me laughing. Here, allow me to remove just one comma from that line:

EVERYONE is far less aggravating than you are.

That's what made me giggle.

225 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:23:55pm

Had a brief discussion here with someone a few weeks ago about Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM. Art Bell is on tonight for "Ghost to Ghost AM"

226 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:24:49pm

re: #183 Floral Giraffe

Peed on the carpet.
Another very lame troll!

But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :Dre: #223 palomino

Entitlement cuts could be on the table, in time. But setting them up and phasing them in will take a long time. Major cuts to the defense budget are indeed off the table, for good reason.

227 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:25:39pm

re: #224 Slumbering Behemoth

Did you really giggle?
As in "tee hee"?
Happy to have made you giggle!

228 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:26:30pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :Dre: #223 palomino

Entitlement cuts could be on the table, in time. But setting them up and phasing them in will take a long time. Major cuts to the defense budget are indeed off the table, for good reason.

I no longer work for a defense contractor...but there is fat to cut in the defense budget.

229 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:31:32pm

re: #228 joest73

I no longer work for a defense contractor...but there is fat to cut in the defense budget.

In terms of fraud and waste, yes. But that very hard to stamp out, given the strength major contractors have with Congress.Real reform would require rooting out fraud while not demonizing contractors, and would require a both parties to work together. These days the Dems and Repubs would rather shout "ELEVENTY!!1" at each other.

230 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:33:19pm

re: #212 PT Barnum

I'm really not feeling racism from that, so much as good old fashioned McCarthy/Bircher Red (Communist) Scare-ism. Which by itself is ridiculous.

Oh shit, run and hide! It's the Chi-Coms!
/

231 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:33:50pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

I've long thought that one of the best things we could do is cut the number of flag officers in half.

232 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:34:36pm

re: #60 Charles

Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.

I'm on it

233 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:35:03pm

re: #216 Gus 802

I didn't see it as racist but maybe it's there. It's the usual Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theory. The Chinese hold 20 percent of foreign holders of our debt. Equal to the Japanese. We all remember the "Japan is going to take over" fear mongering from the 80s. Now they both hold the same amount of debt.

This is the top 4 from the US Treasury:

China, Mainland 868.4
Japan 836.6
United Kingdom 448.4
Oil Exporters 226.6

Total foreign ownership of US debt is about 30%. 20% of 30% is 6%. So the Chinese own 6% of US debt.

re: #219 freetoken

Which means the American average household owes China about $8k.

$2652.47

234 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:35:07pm

Be happy, folks.
Be well.

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:35:40pm

re: #231 freetoken

I've long thought that one of the best things we could do is cut the number of flag officers in half.

Half would be a bit drastic. That said Secretary Gates is cutting the number of such positions.

236 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:36:22pm

re: #232 SpaceJesus

I'm on it

Go SpaceJesus, Go!

237 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:36:23pm

re: #232 SpaceJesus

I'm on it

Get 'em, SJ! Drive them into a frenzy!

238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:37:09pm

re: #225 joest73

Heh. Be sure to have your conspiracy decoder ring and tin-foil hat at the ready!

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:38:44pm

re: #227 Floral Giraffe

Did you really giggle?

Darn right I did. And it tickled me in that "funny place".

/that spot just beneath my lower lip...

240 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:39:25pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

the wikipedia staff are none too pleased atm

241 joest73  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:41:33pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

In terms of fraud and waste, yes. But that very hard to stamp out, given the strength major contractors have with Congress.Real reform would require rooting out fraud while not demonizing contractors, and would require a both parties to work together. These days the Dems and Repubs would rather shout "ELEVENTY!!1" at each other.

I agree....it would never happen that way. I'm from the late Jack Murtha's district so I've seen enough corruption with contractors.

Oh well...the Steelers lost and the post game show is over.....time to step away from the computer......

242 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:43:58pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :Dre: #223 palomino

Entitlement cuts could be on the table, in time. But setting them up and phasing them in will take a long time. Major cuts to the defense budget are indeed off the table, for good reason.

But does any of that add to a balanced budget anytime soon? Its seems to me that the TP and much of the GOP is operating under a fantasy regarding deficit reduction. Their numbers don't add up if 75%+ of the budget is off limits.

That bipartisan deficit reduction committee is almost certainly gonna tell us to do what we did in the 90s--cut spending and raise taxes. Which will be impossible as Dems will only agree to significant spending cuts if there are some tax hikes. Which in turn is impossible as the GOP will reject any tax increase, no matter how much Dems are willing to compromise on spending cuts.

I don't know what you consider major military cuts, but do we really have to continue spending more on defense than the rest of the world combined?

243 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:44:03pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

the wikipedia staff are none too pleased atm

That's why they get paid the BIG bucks!
LOL!

244 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:44:32pm

re: #233 goddamnedfrank

$2652.47

Well, ok. Still, even with that reduced number those Walmart toys don't seem so cheap.

245 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:45:08pm

re: #225 joest73

Thanks. Haven't heard Art in ages.

246 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:48:18pm

re: #242 palomino

But does any of that add to a balanced budget anytime soon? Its seems to me that the TP and much of the GOP is operating under a fantasy regarding deficit reduction. Their numbers don't add up if 75%+ of the budget is off limits.

That bipartisan deficit reduction committee is almost certainly gonna tell us to do what we did in the 90s--cut spending and raise taxes. Which will be impossible as Dems will only agree to significant spending cuts if there are some tax hikes. Which in turn is impossible as the GOP will reject any tax increase, no matter how much Dems are willing to compromise on spending cuts.

I don't know what you consider major military cuts, but do we really have to continue spending more on defense than the rest of the world combined?

Yes, we do. We have a lot of weapons systems that are needing replacement or major upgrades and we've got lots of enemies. Gates can try to cut some waste, but that's all. We really do need to maintain our existing capabilities.

247 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:48:58pm

re: #244 freetoken

Well, ok. Still, even with that reduced number those Walmart toys don't seem so cheap.

No, I agree, they don't seem so cheap in that perspective. I just wanted to remind people that we still own the vast majority of our own debt. That fact sometimes gets lost in the alarmist narrative of our impending slavery to Beijing.

248 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:02:51pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon

Yes, we do. We have a lot of weapons systems that are needing replacement or major upgrades and we've got lots of enemies. Gates can try to cut some waste, but that's all. We really do need to maintain our existing capabilities.

Never seems a little excessive that we, with 4% of the world's territory and 4% of its people, spend over 50% of the world's expenditures on military spending? I know Ike lived in a different era, but his words on this still seem prescient.

Either way, if that's off the table, then the TP/GOP dream of balancing the budget their way is really a pipe dream, a joke. The answer isn't magic (compromise on tax increases and spending cuts), but it won't happen as the gop has essentially promised to continue refusing to cooperate.

249 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:06:24pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon

Yes, we do. We have a lot of weapons systems that are needing replacement or major upgrades and we've got lots of enemies. Gates can try to cut some waste, but that's all. We really do need to maintain our existing capabilities.

Besides, what percentage or our GDP is being spent on military? It seems a bit skewed to claim that the U.S. spends more than everyone else in the entire world combined without putting it into context of GDP, costs of advanced tech, and so on.

Hell, American citizens likely spend more of their own personal income on cocaine, beer, music, whatever, than the all of the other world citizens combined. But what does a statement like that really mean?

250 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:09:30pm

Watching Die Hard with a Vengeance. Ironically, it's about terrorists in New York but when the movie was made, the WTC was still around.

A beautiful shot of both the towers. I'm still sad that I never got the chance to see the center prior to that fateful day.

251 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:14:22pm

re: #243 Floral Giraffe

the wikipedia editors were mad at me for taking down the stalker vandalism at first, but now that we've talked, they agree it should come down.

"Moreover, I now see that the reference provided fails WP:RS and that you were right to have removed it. Note, that I have struck out the warning above. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. — SpikeToronto"


the wiki editors don't want to put up with stalker shenanigans either

252 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:19:29pm

re: #241 joest73

I agree...it would never happen that way. I'm from the late Jack Murtha's district so I've seen enough corruption with contractors.

Oh well...the Steelers lost and the post game show is over...time to step away from the computer...

It's OK, for two reasons--One, the Saints aren't exactly pikers, and Two, next week the Steelers get the Mighty Bengals on MNF.

253 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:20:18pm

re: #251 SpaceJesus

Quite cool of you to take the front on this. I don't care for the broad tar brush you slap southern states with, but all around you're a great chap!

254 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:23:05pm

re: #248 palomino

Either way, if that's off the table, then the TP/GOP dream of balancing the budget their way is really a pipe dream, a joke.

Agree, it's a joke, and it always was and will be. It's a hot button, an emotionalism appeal, a kind of Lucy and Charlie Brown scenario.

255 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:24:42pm

re: #249 Slumbering Behemoth

Besides, what percentage or our GDP is being spent on military? It seems a bit skewed to claim that the U.S. spends more than everyone else in the entire world combined without putting it into context of GDP, costs of advanced tech, and so on.

Hell, American citizens likely spend more of their own personal income on cocaine, beer, music, whatever, than the all of the other world citizens combined. But what does a statement like that really mean?

First off, we do spend a higher percentage of GDP than most other countries. But merely having a high GDP doesn't necessitate larger military spending. So what if our GDP is high? In absolute terms we seem to overspend--6 times as much as our nearest frenemy, China. Maybe, just maybe we could manage to keep ourselves safe for "only" $600B a year?

As for coke, beer and music, it's extremely unlikely that we spend more than the rest of the world combined. The rest of the world likes those things about as much as we do; they like military spending less.

256 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:25:17pm

In the Colorado races, the Coloradans have more a favorable view of the xenophobe Tancredo than not:
[Link: www.publicpolicypolling.com...]

If Maes weren't running it looks like Tancredo might have become governor.

257 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:27:08pm

For all you discussing GDP and military spending.

By definition GDP includes government spending.

So less government spending = less GDP.

258 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:28:58pm

re: #254 freetoken

Agree, it's a joke, and it always was and will be. It's a hot button, an emotionalism appeal, a kind of Lucy and Charlie Brown scenario.

Big question is: will the TP diehards get upset about the gop not bringing us fiscal discipline? Or will they be happy enough that they're now in charge that they will forgive the gop for not delivering on its raison d'etre?

259 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:30:16pm

re: #253 Slumbering Behemoth


it took me 5 minutes to get an editor to remove what probably took them weeks to try and come up with.

260 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:30:30pm

re: #258 palomino

Big question is: will the TP diehards get upset about the gop not bringing us fiscal discipline?

Good question. My suspicion is that they'll just slither back into the shadows.

261 freetoken  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:30:59pm

re: #259 SpaceJesus

Yeah, but you're now omniscient and omnipotent, so it wasn't really a fair fight.

262 palomino  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:31:44pm

re: #256 freetoken

In the Colorado races, the Coloradans have more a favorable view of the xenophobe Tancredo than not:
[Link: www.publicpolicypolling.com...]

If Maes weren't running it looks like Tancredo might have become governor.

Hickenlooper (what a name) is probably gonna win, but I'm afraid Tancredo still has a chance. Maes is down to 8% in polls. Most Republicans have forgotten about him and are moving in Tancredo's direction.

263 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:38:08pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...


it was pretty hilarious being the only liberal here surrounded by people who had their homepages set to free repubic

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:45:39pm

re: #255 palomino

This document is a teeny bit dated, but it does show that, at least from '99 to '04, the U.S. isn't the highest spender by comparison. At least as I understand it. But I should say that I am the first person to admit that I don't really know all the nuances of economics.

First off, we do spend a higher percentage of GDP than most other countries. But merely having a high GDP doesn't necessitate larger military spending. So what if our GDP is high? In absolute terms we seem to overspend--6 times as much as our nearest frenemy, China. Maybe, just maybe we could manage to keep ourselves safe for "only" $600B a year?

Could this have something to do with having the most technologically advanced military on earth? Our equipment costs more than used Kalashnikovs. DF knows way more about this stuff than I do, I'm just kind throwing things out there. Maybe I'll learn something.

As for coke, beer and music, it's extremely unlikely that we spend more than the rest of the world combined. The rest of the world likes those things about as much as we do; they like military spending less.

I dunno. Check out this pic, at least relating to the black market drug trade. Also, just another thing I was throwing out there, hence the word "likely".

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:49:45pm

re: #263 SpaceJesus

it was pretty hilarious being the only liberal here surrounded by people who had their homepages set to free repubic

Well, you weren't the only liberal here. Before you showed up with your "OMG! BLASPHEMOUS NIC!", Avanti was taking both boots from all kinds of folk looking to bash "dem gawt-damned commie libruls".

Heh, but you sure did take a lion's share of bullshit with style. Props to you for that.

266 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:57:13pm

re: #265 Slumbering Behemoth

whatever happened to avanti? i remember when i would go looking for posts of mine here on lgf i would scroll real fast down the page looking for big red numbers only to find that they belonged to him half the time.

267 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:00:59am

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

This document is a teeny bit dated, but it does show that, at least from '99 to '04, the U.S. isn't the highest spender by comparison. At least as I understand it. But I should say that I am the first person to admit that I don't really know all the nuances of economics.

Could this have something to do with having the most technologically advanced military on earth? Our equipment costs more than used Kalashnikovs. DF knows way more about this stuff than I do, I'm just kind throwing things out there. Maybe I'll learn something.

I just said that we spend a higher portion of our GDP on military than most countries, not all.

Regardless, we're no longer gearing up for the mother of all wars against the Russkies. I have a hard time believing that simply containing costs for now and making small cuts in the future will make us demonstrably less safe. Unless we intend to nation build in every continent it's unlikely that we couldn't withstand some cuts.

A country with 4% of the world's land and population spends 51% of its military expenditures. Talk about out of whack.

268 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:06:30am

re: #266 SpaceJesus

He's still here, quite regularly even. He's just not getting gang-banged with automatic down dings like he used to.

269 freetoken  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:11:02am

re: #267 palomino


A country with 4% of the world's land and population spends 51% of its military expenditures. Talk about out of whack.


But we also have something like 22% of the world's GDP.

So, for 4% of the population to maintain 22% of the world GDP, it might be necessary for that population to be responsible for 50% of world military expenditures.

270 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:12:06am

re: #251 SpaceJesus

the wikipedia editors were mad at me for taking down the stalker vandalism at first, but now that we've talked, they agree it should come down.

"Moreover, I now see that the reference provided fails WP:RS and that you were right to have removed it. Note, that I have struck out the warning above. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. — SpikeToronto"

the wiki editors don't want to put up with stalker shenanigans either

Excellent job.

271 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:16:28am

re: #269 freetoken

But we also have something like 22% of the world's GDP.

So, for 4% of the population to maintain 22% of the world GDP, it might be necessary for that population to be responsible for 50% of world military expenditures.

How does 22% of GDP get us to 50% of total expenditures?

And China is gaining on us in GDP, so would it be in their best interests to quadruple their military spending?

272 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:17:05am

re: #267 palomino

Meh, I'm not really the proper foil to argue this with. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to economics.

I have a hard time believing that simply containing costs for now and making small cuts in the future will make us demonstrably less safe.

I have a hard time believing that as well, however...

A country with 4% of the world's land and population spends 51% of its military expenditures. Talk about out of whack.

... statements like this really do not have any significant context attached to them in order to really see the entire picture with any kind of relevant perspective, and I've only heard them made by folks handing out fliers at head festivals and rock concerts. That's not meant as an insult directed at you or your argument, so please don't take it as such.

273 freetoken  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:18:49am

re: #271 palomino

How does 22% of GDP get us to 50% of total expenditures?

"How?" - well, that could take a while to untangle. Yet I am merely offering up that there is indeed a connection.


And China is gaining on us in GDP, so would it be in their best interests to quadruple their military spending?

And, Chinese military spending is going up as they increase their GDP.

274 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:21:27am

re: #265 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, you weren't the only liberal here. Before you showed up with your "OMG! BLASPHEMOUS NIC!", Avanti was taking both boots from all kinds of folk looking to bash "dem gawt-damned commie libruls".

Heh, but you sure did take a lion's share of bullshit with style. Props to you for that.

When I joined in 2006, I caught the tail end of the anti-liberal rhetoric. I've only become a regular poster here since 2008.

275 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:33:03am

re: #274 eclectic infidel

It was pretty rough. I bet if you go back far enough I acted pretty roughly myself.

But I don't ever recall piling on him. He took loads of vitriol and consistently responded in a decent manner, without resorting to mirroring the crap that was thrown at him. I respect the hell out of him for that.

276 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:45:20am

re: #272 Slumbering Behemoth


... statements like this really do not have any significant context attached to them in order to really see the entire picture with any kind of relevant perspective, and I've only heard them made by folks handing out fliers at head festivals and rock concerts. That's not meant as an insult directed at you or your argument, so please don't take it as such.

Care to provide the context with relevant perspective that would justify spending more than the rest of the world? It's certainly not an unfair question to ask why we spend so much. And is it really impossible for us to protect ourselves while making modest cuts? Even Gates has pushed for some cuts, as have a lot of other brass and ex-brass.

As for the comment, it's not an insult. Some of the smarter people I know go to head festivals and lots of rock concerts.

277 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:49:32am

re: #273 freetoken

"
And, Chinese military spending is going up as they increase their GDP.

Just great. One more reason to increase our own military spending. Let's have an arms race with China now. The one with the Soviets was so much fun!

Five years ago Cheney expressed concerns about the Chinese military budget rising from 50 to $55B. Which does create some legitimate concern. The Chinese response was that, since the US is spending 10x as much, they are in no position to lecture us.

278 freetoken  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:57:03am

re: #277 palomino

I'm offering it up as a phenomenon to be understood, without passing any immediate moral judgement upon it.

re: #276 palomino

Care to provide the context with relevant perspective that would justify spending more than the rest of the world?

It's not possible to understand the post WWII expenditures on military by the US without looking at the role of the US worldwide. For many nations all over the world we have been an important partner in their own foreign policy and security, in many cases being the primary partner.

The US undertook, for various reasons, the role of policeman and defender.

Now, you might want to argue that we shouldn't have done that, or that we can't do it anymore. But, without a doubt our military expenditures are directly related to the roles we play internationally.

279 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:02:18am

re: #276 palomino

Again, I'm really not the greatest foil to have this conversation with. And again...

Care to provide the context with relevant perspective that would justify spending more than the rest of the world?

Arguments like this are meaningless without proper context. We in the U.S. probably spend more on road maintenance than any other nation in the world, but what does a statement like that really mean without some kind of context? Also again, just something I'm throwing out there, I don't know the real numbers on that.

And is it really impossible for us to protect ourselves while making modest cuts?

I've never argued that it wasn't, so I'm confused as to why you keep hammering that point with me.

As for the comment, it's not an insult. Some of the smarter people I know go to head festivals and lots of rock concerts.

I'd say the same, but I'd also say that you and I likely need to broaden our social experience. Just sayin'.

280 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:09:23am

re: #278 freetoken

I'm offering it up as a phenomenon to be understood, without passing any immediate moral judgement upon it.

re: #276 palomino

It's not possible to understand the post WWII expenditures on military by the US without looking at the role of the US worldwide. For many nations all over the world we have been an important partner in their own foreign policy and security, in many cases being the primary partner.

The US undertook, for various reasons, the role of policeman and defender.

Now, you might want to argue that we shouldn't have done that, or that we can't do it anymore. But, without a doubt our military expenditures are directly related to the roles we play internationally.

That all makes sense, as it clearly is America's past over the last 60 years. But, just as we are forcing ourselves to acknowledge new global economic realities, we may want to re-think our military role as well, at least to the extent that modest cuts in military spending are on the table.

The reason we've been able to play world cop has been our overwhelming economic superiority. Now that much of the rest of the world has crawled out of first the ashes of WWII and then communist dictatorships and colonialism, we probably can't maintain such vast superiority. Just being realistic.

281 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:16:37am

re: #279 Slumbering Behemoth


I'd say the same, but I'd also say that you and I likely need to broaden our social experience. Just sayin'.

Why do you and I need to broaden our social experiences?

You're right, I haven't provided a lot of context. I'm just saying that expenditures this large need clear and compelling justifications, and we often don't get the explanations we should.

282 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:23:34am

re: #281 palomino

Why do you and I need to broaden our social experiences?

Even though I did agree with this statement...

Some of the smarter people I know go to head festivals and lots of rock concerts.

... you have to admit it's kind of silly. I imagine if we were to go hang with the folks of CERN, for example, we'd find them on average far smarter than anyone we've ever met at head festivals or rock concerts.

Of course, I am making the assumption that you haven't done so in that example.

283 freetoken  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:25:24am

re: #280 palomino

But, just as we are forcing ourselves to acknowledge new global economic realities, we may want to re-think our military role as well, ...

Rumsfeld was one of the leading (establishment) proponents of rethinking American military structure, but he got heck from all sides.

Currently the US military is acknowledging that they have to change their machinery (mostly transportation) from being dependent upon petroleum, accepting that the US will always have an oil problem and it will get worse over time.

I think there are plenty of strategists and thinkers out there that acknowledge that the role of the US has to change.

Yet we see in contemporary American politics and public discussion a great deal of angst about losing our prestige/control on the international stage. Recently we've seen pundits/politicians spreading fear about the US not being #1 in this or that. China is usually the boogie-man.

This sort of losing face, as they would say in the East, is causing some of the angst we see in the populism (Tea Partyism) today, I believe.

Where this is all going I don't know, but I don't like what I read/see/hear from the wingnut crowd - it really is just mindless mob-think.

How will the Tea Partying faction of the electorate react to the US not getting its way in some big changes coming this decade?

Recently there was a meeting of central bankers and finance ministers, including reps from the US, to discuss currencies and exchange rates, etc. The US got some of what it wanted, but there were concessions too. As time goes by more concessions will be necessary, to other countries wrt what the US can do (with money and government spending.)

How will the American public respond, once the populace actually understands what is happening?

Our military expenditures are just part of a larger picture of how the US fits into the international order.

284 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:34:26am

Interesting, but...

Laters. Catch y'all some other time.

285 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:46:43am

re: #282 Slumbering Behemoth

Even though I did agree with this statement...

... you have to admit it's kind of silly. I imagine if we were to go hang with the folks of CERN, for example, we'd find them on average far smarter than anyone we've ever met at head festivals or rock concerts.

Of course, I am making the assumption that you haven't done so in that example.

Hang out with CERN folks? No, haven't done that. Not likely to either. But a couple of steps down are the educated professionals who play golf at their local country club, and I don't find the ones I know in that group to be smarter as a whole than the "stoned slackers."

286 palomino  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:57:00am

re: #283 freetoken

The only reason I fixated on military spending is that it's just one more part of the budget that won't get cut, thus making the TP fantasy of a balanced budget completely irrational.

You make some really good points. Agree about the TP hysteria. Seems to be a belief that if America's not NO. 1 in all the big things, then the world is going to hell and there's no hope. And there actually is such a view among some evangelicals, who see American dominance as a must.

There was a great piece along these lines by Hitchens a few weeks back, it's called "white fright".

287 freetoken  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 2:34:56am
288 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:00:57am

re: #283 freetoken

I even agreed with Reagan's maxim that "you can't solve social programs by throwing money at them".

But when our military has a problem, the solution always seems to be to throw money at it and to toss accountability overboard.

And if we are maintaining a military presence in the Middle East to ensure our supplies of petroeum, then it amounts to an indirect subsidy of this form of energy.

This in turn serves as an economic disincentive to developing alternatives taht lessen our need for a miitary presence in socially and politically backwards parts of the world.

289 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:12:58am

re: #4 Ojoe

1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?

2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.

3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.

4. Good night all.


Ugh just what the fuck, man

Do you really think this is cool?

290 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:14:37am

re: #285 palomino

Hang out with CERN folks? No, haven't done that. Not likely to either. But a couple of steps down are the educated professionals who play golf at their local country club, and I don't find the ones I know in that group to be smarter as a whole than the "stoned slackers."

I find the stoned slackers to be many times smarter than any country club android I've ever met, and I grew up in a gated community in the suburbs with an honest to god country club. Those people were stupid, they were mean, and they ignored their kids. I'm so glad I don't live anywhere near any of those people anymore

291 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:38:30am

Morning, all!

292 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:45:45am

re: #290 WindUpBird

I find the stoned slackers to be many times smarter than any country club android I've ever met, and I grew up in a gated community in the suburbs with an honest to god country club. Those people were stupid, they were mean, and they ignored their kids. I'm so glad I don't live anywhere near any of those people anymore

WUB=DJ Jazzy Trevor.

293 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:46:30am

Morning! I'm getting a bit nervous about the upcoming festivities.

294 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:49:27am

re: #293 RogueOne

Morning! I'm getting a bit nervous about the upcoming festivities.

Why?

295 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:51:38am

re: #294 researchok

Why?

The colts are missing a ton of players in the secondary and offensive skill positions. Addai may not play, Brown is still hurt, it's going to be tough to pull it out.

/pull it out.

296 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:52:10am

re: #295 RogueOne

The colts are missing a ton of players in the secondary and offensive skill positions. Addai may not play, Brown is still hurt, it's going to be tough to pull it out.

/pull it out.

Have another cup of coffee.

//

297 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:54:55am

re: #296 researchok

I'm concerned! The AFC South is tough. Yesterday our worst team (the jags) killed the poor cowboys. The colts need this one to keep up.

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:03:36am

re: #297 RogueOne

Jerry Jones said yesterday that it is pointless to fire a coach in mid-season.

I wonder; Should Wade read anything into that?

299 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:03:59am

re: #258 palomino

Big question is: will the TP diehards get upset about the gop not bringing us fiscal discipline? Or will they be happy enough that they're now in charge that they will forgive the gop for not delivering on its raison d'etre?

If they don't deliver then we'll see a 3rd party, possibly as quick as 2012. It's too early to tell which side (Repub or Dem) a 3rd party would end up screwing. The last time it worked in the Dems favor, who knows now though.

300 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:04:59am

re: #298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Jerry Jones said yesterday that it is pointless to fire a coach in mid-season.

I wonder; Should Wade read anything into that?

He keeps saying he's not going to fire Wade but at this point I don't see why not. They have a great roster and even without their best QB they should have beaten the Jags.

301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:05:06am

re: #299 RogueOne

I wish there were a middle party... but we'd never get anyone elected.

302 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:05:19am

re: #297 RogueOne

I'm concerned! The AFC South is tough. Yesterday our worst team (the jags) killed the poor cowboys. The colts need this one to keep up.

I admire your discipline.

Here I am, all focused on the election.
/

303 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:06:17am

re: #302 researchok

I admire your discipline.

Here I am, all focused on the election.
/

You need to get your priorities straight man./

304 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:07:04am

re: #303 RogueOne

You need to get your priorities straight man./

I hear that.

Burgers for breakfast. I could focus on that.

305 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:07:27am

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wish there were a middle party... but we'd never get anyone elected.

If we could take all the fiscal conservatives from the dems and the repubs we might just have a chance. Let the wings fight amongst themselves about the stupid shit.

306 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:07:49am

re: #304 researchok

I hear that.

Burgers for breakfast. I could focus on that.

Speaking of which, I need fast food breakfast. BRB.

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:08:33am

Well, I'm no damn help. That's for sure.

Was voting today absentee... (gonna be out of town tomorrow).

Absentee closed on Saturday.

I am disenfranchised.

308 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:11:18am

re: #304 researchok

"Went to Burger King, ordered a hamburger. Clerk said, "It's before 10am we only serve breakfast before 10:30." I said, "Why don't you go outside and read the building."

Forgot the comedian's name...

309 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:11:33am

Have you seen this? I posted it as a link, but it may just get glossed over.

Did Iran Know About the Yemen Terror Plot?

310 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:12:05am

re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, I'm no damn help. That's for sure.

Was voting today absentee... (gonna be out of town tomorrow).

Absentee closed on Saturday.

I am disenfranchised.

That sucks!

311 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:13:30am

I just hope post election doesn't turn into a battle royale.

I'm not hopeful, though.

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:16:09am

re: #310 researchok

I was actually going to vote for Stuart Bain. (I knew him when he was a wee child)... as part of my vote against anybody who is in.

According to the papers he has $6,500.00 left in his campaign fund.

He's a teaparty, libertarian, nut-job... and that's how anti incumbent I am. (but I also know that Bob Goodlatte will get well over 80% of the vote).

313 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:16:38am

re: #309 researchok

Have you seen this? I posted it as a link, but it may just get glossed over.

Did Iran Know About the Yemen Terror Plot?

My gut feeling is that Iran has been a helluva lot more complicit in international terrorism since the 1970's that anyone gives them credit for.

314 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:17:09am

re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was actually going to vote for Stuart Bain. (I knew him when he was a wee child)... as part of my vote against anybody who is in.

According to the papers he has $6,500.00 left in his campaign fund.

He's a teaparty, libertarian, nut-job... and that's how anti incumbent I am. (but I also know that Bob Goodlatte will get well over 80% of the vote).

Who is his opponent?

315 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:19:06am
Why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as well as prohibition did, in five years Americans would be the smartest race of people on Earth.
- Will Rogers

Good Morning Lizards!

316 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:19:39am

re: #313 Taqyia2Me

My gut feeling is that Iran has been a helluva lot more complicit in international terrorism since the 1970's that anyone gives them credit for.

The Iranian waters run deep.

Just this past week Nigeria confirmed Iranian arms meant for Hamas were intercepted.

And there is the matter of Iranians supplying arms to insurgents in Iraq, Hizbollah via Syria, etc.

The list is long

317 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:23:38am

Hamas Admits: Lost 700 Fighters in Cast Lead, Not 50

Hamas government Interior Minister Fathi Hamad, confirmed Monday for the first time that the Hamas in Gaza lost 700 fighters in Cast Lead, 250 in the first day alone.

Immediately after the operation, Hamas had claimed that the IDF had killed fewer than 50 of their men. These new figures are close to data published by the IDF at the time of the war.

318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:30:18am

re: #314 researchok

Bob Goodlatte.

319 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:33:40am

re: #318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Bob Goodlatte.

What's his deal?

320 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:34:30am

re: #319 researchok

He's an incumbent.

321 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:35:12am

re: #320 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's an incumbent.

How bad?

322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:39:51am

re: #321 researchok

Not bad at all, if you are me.

Dems won't even run against him.

I just said I would not vote for an incumbent.

I guess I kept my word. I didn't.

323 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:42:12am

re: #322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not bad at all, if you are me.

Dems won't even run against him.

I just said I would not vote for an incumbent.

I guess I kept my word. I didn't.

All kidding aside, the anti incumbent sentiment runs deep. I suspect there will be even more of that in '12. I expect the Dems to get on board.

Term limits is something that everyone can agree on. This 'ruling class' has been fostering resentment for a long time.

324 insert name here  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:42:40am

Not germane to anything, but I thought I'd say, this would actually be a pretty cool poem...

re: #70 reine.de.tout


This whole thing is just crap.

And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.

"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")

"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..."

325 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:43:47am

re: #324 insert name here

Not germane to anything, but I thought I'd say, this would actually be a pretty cool poem...

Too early for poetry for me.
/

326 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:50:37am

re: #311 researchok

I just hope post election doesn't turn into a battle royale.

I'm not hopeful, though.

Oh it will. You think the 30% of the dem faithful are irritable now just wait until Wednesday morning.

327 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:52:16am

re: #326 RogueOne

Oh it will. You think the 30% of the dem faithful are irritable now just wait until Wednesday morning.

I hope there are a few more sane and rational heads in here.

328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:52:44am

re: #327 researchok

You mean me? I'm not close to either.

329 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:53:38am

re: #323 researchok

Term limits is something that everyone can agree on. This 'ruling class' has been fostering resentment for a long time.

Not everyone agrees. The people who make the term limit laws do not agree.

330 researchok  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:53:51am

re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You mean me? I'm not close to either.

LOL- pretty good for an early AM!

331 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:59:48am

I am eating a steak as soon as I get to work. And some fried taters. And good morning.

332 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:02:41am

re: #48 Gus 802

Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.

Dave Riechert.

333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:26:54am

Former President Bush threw out a helluva first pitch yesterday. It is so sad to see the Elder looking so frail.

334 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:28:18am

re: #333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Former President Bush threw out a helluva first pitch yesterday. It is so sad to see the Elder looking so frail.

Every time he reads or hears anything about the Tea Party it probably drains even more of his life energies from his body...

335 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:32:14am

re: #334 ralphieboy

Funny. I was curious and went hunting for Obama first pitches, and of course there're comparisons with Bush all over the place (like America depends on a pitching ace in the Oval Office)... but I did see one funny post about Obama... "He throws with his left wing."

336 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:33:42am

re: #333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Former President Bush threw out a helluva first pitch yesterday. It is so sad to see the Elder looking so frail.

It was great to see them both, cruising out in the Big Wheels ;)
He was sure looking his age.

G.W. threw a good pitch.

337 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:34:19am

re: #335 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Funny. I was curious and went hunting for Obama first pitches, and of course there're comparisons with Bush all over the place (like America depends on a pitching ace in the Oval Office)... but I did see one funny post about Obama... "He throws with his left wing."


It's a symbol of Manhood and connectedness to American culture. Any lacking on that account is a sign that he is a Muslim Keny(si)an anti-imperialist.

338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:36:53am

What happens if the White House simply declines the invitation to throw out the pitch? They know he's gonna look like a twit doing it.

Just say no, President Obama.

339 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:47:40am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What happens if the White House simply declines the invitation to throw out the pitch? They know he's gonna look like a twit doing it.

Just say no, President Obama.

Baseball, Blah. Now the president taking the first snap of a football game, that would be something to see!!!
//

340 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:49:57am

re: #339 rwdflynavy

Baseball, Blah. Now the president taking the first snap of a football game, that would be something to see!!!
//


Some how, it seems more fitting at this point to watch him drop back ten and punt...

341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:10:08am

re: #340 ralphieboy

Kind of what he is being forced to do tomorrow...

maybe.

342 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:32:02am

re: #317 researchok

Hamas Admits: Lost 700 Fighters in Cast Lead, Not 50

Gee, what a surprise. And when you factor in the 700 with the overall casualties claimed and verified, the number of civilian casualties is a fraction of what Hamas claimed. After all, those 650 additional Hamas thugs were originally categorized as civilians.

I'm frankly surprised that they've confirmed what everyone - and particularly the Israelis - knew. Why would they confirm that information and why now? That seems rather... odd.

343 Jadespring  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:34:57am

Morning.

The agenda today consists of buying a wood stove. Good thing too as it got down to below zero last night. It will be nice to have a source of comforting heat in the house rather then the electric heaters I have right now.

344 Ericus58  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:43:29am

re: #342 lawhawk

Gee, what a surprise. And when you factor in the 700 with the overall casualties claimed and verified, the number of civilian casualties is a fraction of what Hamas claimed. After all, those 650 additional Hamas thugs were originally categorized as civilians.

I'm frankly surprised that they've confirmed what everyone - and particularly the Israelis - knew. Why would they confirm that information and why now? That seems rather... odd.

It does seem odd - there is a reason to revise their losses to reflect the pain they suffered... is it to build up sympathy, to justify a rationale that revenge must be brought against Israel?
Are the drums getting louder across the river?

345 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:00am

re: #305 RogueOne

If we could take all the fiscal conservatives from the dems and the repubs we might just have a chance. Let the wings fight amongst themselves about the stupid shit.

I would agree, but I'd rather take the pragmatists from both parties. The fiscons can be just as dogmatic as the socons. Unless of course you mean fiscal conservative back when it meant balance the books and raise taxes when necessary, as opposed to never raise taxes ever and always cut spending. Those folks are just as delusional as the spendthrifts.

I don't have a problem with government spending as long as it's for things that pay off in the long run. That's something government should do. Fund research and development, pay for infrastructure improvements, etc. that may not pay off for decades, but which will enhance and benefit the population as a whole.

346 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:00am

re: #342 lawhawk

re: #344 Ericus58

It does seem odd - there is a reason to revise their losses to reflect the pain they suffered... is it to build up sympathy, to justify a rationale that revenge must be brought against Israel?
Are the drums getting louder across the river?

Could be a (re) call to arms

i.e. ,, "Look people ,, 700 of our brave fighting warriors have died at the hands of the evil occupiers. We can win, but we need you to come fight"

347 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:08am

Hello all,
I'm on the hunt for a musician, or permission to use some good music for a video short I shot. It's a sky beauty piece, clouds blowing through the area at Mt Wilson Saturday. 5 minutes long. Today I'll be scouring public domain sites, but if anyone is interested to throw in just for exposure/generous screen credit, well my nic is blue. Thanks!

348 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:33am

re: #341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Kind of what he is being forced to do tomorrow...

maybe.


Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.

349 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:47:32am

re: #348 ralphieboy

Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.

I suspect they'll drop the ball or complain about being rushed after they take possession.

350 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:47:43am

re: #348 ralphieboy

Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.

My hope ,, not trick plays,,, no penalties ,, no illegal substitutions!

351 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:53:00am

re: #348 ralphieboy

Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.

It may be that it works out for the best. I think Obama needs to show some passion and get the same people that voted for him energized and working for him rather than standing around and kvetching that he wasn't the Messiah that he never made himself out to be in the first place.

This may bring it out in him, it may not, but I do think he needs to stop talking about bipartisanship and actual governance and realize the other side isn't going to play as they don't see it as a winning electoral strategy. He needs to find a way to get the other side to see that continuing to play offensive defense will come back and bite them later, but I don't see that happening at all.

I don't think it's a matter of arrogance or lack of passion, I think he's working hard to get things done, I think he's just more of an intellectual than a street fighter.

352 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:56:22am

re: #348 ralphieboy

It was 4th and 20 from the Democrats' 20 yard line. The punt resulted in multiple flags have been thrown on the play. We have holding on the kicking team and an illegal block to the back and facemask with personal foul (intentional) on the return team after the kick. The penalties will be marked off from the spot of the ball. It's 1st and 10 for the GOP from their own 5 yard line.

353 Jadespring  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:58:19am

re: #345 PT Barnum

I would agree, but I'd rather take the pragmatists from both parties. The fiscons can be just as dogmatic as the socons. Unless of course you mean fiscal conservative back when it meant balance the books and raise taxes when necessary, as opposed to never raise taxes ever and always cut spending. Those folks are just as delusional as the spendthrifts.

Hear, hear! I seriously question anyone's economic acumen (regardless of party) when absolutes are talked about this way. I understand that much of it can be just election rhetoric but the consequences of such rhetoric set the public up to believe in things that sometimes aren't always realistic. Mostly I get annoyed because sure on principle 'never raise taxes and cut spending (I assume to balance the budgets) sounds great but the complexity of what that means, whether it's trade-offs or the wholesale disappearing of things never seems to be relayed in anything more then a superficial and usually quite rhetorical manner. It leads to a disconnect between 'what people want' vs 'what it actually costs to supply those wants'.

354 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:58:46am

re: #352 lawhawk

We need a Hail Mary play!!!

355 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:00:09am

re: #354 ralphieboy

We need a Hail Mary play!!!

Can't

Separation of Church and State, and all!!

356 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:00:22am

re: #345 PT Barnum

re: #353 Jadespring

all good thoughts but I don't believe anyone, from either party, has actually tried to cut spending. Cutting the rate of growth isn't the same thing. I've read in a couple places that Canada has done it in the past, maybe we should ask them how to do it.

357 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:02:05am

re: #353 Jadespring

It leads to a disconnect between 'what people want' vs 'what it actually costs to supply those wants'.

That disconnect leads to everyone thinking that it's someone else's fault and someone else should have to pay.

The mentality that somehow my taxes would go down if they just got all the "lazy" people off of welfare and foodstamps or that my life would be better if they just taxed all the rich people at a higher rate is wishful thinking at best.

358 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:03:50am

re: #356 RogueOne

re: #353 Jadespring

all good thoughts but I don't believe anyone, from either party, has actually tried to cut spending. Cutting the rate of growth isn't the same thing. I've read in a couple places that Canada has done it in the past, maybe we should ask them how to do it.

BINGO

359 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:06:11am

re: #356 RogueOne

re: #353 Jadespring

all good thoughts but I don't believe anyone, from either party, has actually tried to cut spending. Cutting the rate of growth isn't the same thing. I've read in a couple places that Canada has done it in the past, maybe we should ask them how to do it.

The problem with cutting spending is deciding whose ox gets gored. The other problem is that the cuts that most everyone thinks need to be made represent only a small fraction of the budget overall.

360 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:06:42am

re: #358 sattv4u2

BINGO

For example, I would like to see the Dept. Of Education disbanded but I'm willing to compromise. Cutting it back to the Clinton era budget numbers would be a start.

361 Jadespring  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:07:02am

re: #356 RogueOne

re: #353 Jadespring

all good thoughts but I don't believe anyone, from either party, has actually tried to cut spending.


That speaks to setting up (sometimes) unrealistic expectations about trade-offs and what actual cuts really mean. Regardless of the the party, someone tries to cut spending in one place and there is freak out from another side. Most people would agree that on the face of it cutting spending is a good thing but no one seems to want spending cut on things they like. It's always the other persons stuff.


Cutting the rate of growth isn't the same thing. I've read in a couple places that Canada has done it in the past, maybe we should ask them how to do it.

I'm trying to recall when this happened but nothing is triggering. Do you remember what spending was cut? It might trigger my recall. :)

362 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:07:50am

re: #359 PT Barnum

The other problem is that cutting spending often isn't cutting spending.

Say you cut spending on fire inspectors. As a result of that, some buildings are more dangerously prone to fire than usual. As a result, more catch on fire than usual-- leading to more spending on the fire department, which is much more costly than the fire inspectors were.

A lot of spending cuts people advocate are just spending increases down the road. Not spending five thousand dollars to fix the roof can cause you to lose the value of your entire house.

363 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:08:50am

re: #360 RogueOne

For example, I would like to see the Dept. Of Education disbanded but I'm willing to compromise. Cutting it back to the Clinton era budget numbers would be a start.

What would you replace it with? 50 different standards for education? Because that's more likely where you are heading with that.

364 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:10:18am

re: #362 Obdicut

The other problem is that cutting spending often isn't cutting spending.

Say you cut spending on fire inspectors. As a result of that, some buildings are more dangerously prone to fire than usual. As a result, more catch on fire than usual-- leading to more spending on the fire department, which is much more costly than the fire inspectors were.

A lot of spending cuts people advocate are just spending increases down the road. Not spending five thousand dollars to fix the roof can cause you to lose the value of your entire house.

Most people advocating spending cuts and tax cuts (which are a type of spending unless balanced by spending cuts) don't think that far ahead. It's all about what they're paying now, not what it will cost 10 or 15 years down the road. Which is why the infrastructure has turned to shit.

365 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:10:25am

re: #360 RogueOne

For example, I would like to see the Dept. Of Education disbanded but I'm willing to compromise. Cutting it back to the Clinton era budget numbers would be a start.

Here's the thing about the "OMG ,, you CAN'T eliminate the Dept of Ed" cries

I'd be willing to wager over half the people that are against it's elimination can't even tell you when it started.
Wha ,,,,, there were no functioning, good schools prior to it!?!?! After it, ALL schools became great!?!?!?!

366 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:10:25am

re: #361 Jadespring

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


The received wisdom in the United States is that deep spending cuts are politically impossible. But a number of economically advanced countries, including Sweden, Finland, Canada and, most recently, Ireland, have cut their government budgets when needed.

Most relevant, perhaps, is Canada, which cut federal government spending by about 20 percent from 1992 to 1997. The Liberal Party, headed by Jean Chrétien as prime minister and Paul Martin as finance minister, led most of this shift. Prompted by the financial debacle in Mexico, Canadian leaders had the courage and the foresight to make those spending cuts before a fiscal crisis was upon them. In his book “In the Long Run We’re All Dead: The Canadian Turn to Fiscal Restraint,” Timothy Lewis describes Canada’s move from fiscal irresponsibility to a balanced budget — a history that helps explain why the country has managed the current global recession relatively well.

I believe I've also read recently that the new british leadership is trying to do the same thing, cutting actual spending.

To combat PT's point (whose ox gets gored), a 20% across the board actual cut....that way EVERYBODY freaks out! Get all the screaming and crying done at one time.

367 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:12:07am

re: #363 PT Barnum

What would you replace it with? 50 different standards for education? Because that's more likely where you are heading with that.

What did we have prior to it?

iirc,, my parents got a good education ,,,, my older sister did ,, I did ,, my younger sister did ,, cousins from all over the country did,,, aquantances that I have now from all walks of life/ geography did ,, ALL prior to the DOE

368 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:12:15am

re: #362 Obdicut

A lot of spending cuts people advocate are just spending increases down the road. Not spending five thousand dollars to fix the roof can cause you to lose the value of your entire house.

Which is the very notion behind health insurance. One could live without it and risk losing everything over a catastrophic illness or injury.

369 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:12:34am

re: #366 RogueOne

To combat PT's point (whose ox gets gored), a 20% across the board actual cut...that way EVERYBODY freaks out! Get all the screaming and crying done at one time.

By god yes! If we're going to cut spending, let's not try to let rationality or appropriateness enter the debate. If $500,000 of spending on erosion control prevents $10,000,000 worth of damage, let's cut that by 20% so we can enjoy the benefits of a few million dollars worth of topsoil floating down the river.

370 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:13:11am

re: #363 PT Barnum

What would you replace it with? 50 different standards for education? Because that's more likely where you are heading with that.

We already have 50, no, actually, more - standards for education. Schools are still run by local school boards.

The Department of Education does research, keeps statistics, and hands out grants. Now, I suspect at least some of this is useful. But they do NOT set standards or govern local school systems.

Oddly, I seem to have been educated just fine in a time period BEFORE there was such a thing as a US Dept of Education.

371 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:14:50am

US Department of Education.

For those who want to know what it actually does.

372 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:15:38am

re: #367 sattv4u2

What did we have prior to it?

iirc,, my parents got a good education ,,, my older sister did ,, I did ,, my younger sister did ,, cousins from all over the country did,,, aquantances that I have now from all walks of life/ geography did ,, ALL prior to the DOE

Really? Your sister, parents, yourself all were in school prior to 1867? You must be older than I thought.

The original Department of Education was created in 1867 to collect information on schools and teaching that would help the States establish effective school systems. While the agency's name and location within the Executive Branch have changed over the past 130 years, this early emphasis on getting information on what works in education to teachers and education policymakers continues down to the present day.



From the Dept of Ed website.

373 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:15:39am

re: #371 reine.de.tout

US Department of Education.

For those who want to know what it actually does.

We don't want to know that, we just want to sacrifice it to our small-government ideology

374 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:16:18am

re: #368 ralphieboy

Which is the very notion behind health insurance. One could live without it and risk losing everything over a catastrophic illness or injury.

Well, with one small modification; there are lots of spending where the cost down the road is definite, is inevitable. There are people who will never use their health care. But if we cut the number of public defenders down, then the number of cases turned over to a new trial inevitably will go up-- and that represents a real and actual cost.

This is just as true for private businesses as it is for public ones. I've experienced it a ton of times myself. Refusing to put money into an early QA process means the schedule stretching out at the end as multiple late fixes are needed, which winds up costing a hell of a lot more than the early QA time would have.

375 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:17:03am

re: #371 reine.de.tout

US Department of Education.

For those who want to know what it actually does.

Thanks reine. I went and looked but at a different section. I think there's a lot of confusion by non teachers with what the department does and what we think they do.

376 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:17:35am

re: #372 PT Barnum

Really? Your sister, parents, yourself all were in school prior to 1867? You must be older than I thought.



From the Dept of Ed website.

Nice try, but you know we're talking about the DOE created in the Carter admin

And as REINE stated ,,, heres bit a partial list of "DOE's"
[Link: www.google.com...]

377 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:18:01am

re: #372 PT Barnum

Really? Your sister, parents, yourself all were in school prior to 1867? You must be older than I thought.



From the Dept of Ed website.

It was established as a Cabinet level agency in 1980.
From your link.

378 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:18:34am

re: #373 ralphieboy

We don't want to know that, we just want to sacrifice it to our small-government ideology

If we didn't have the DOE as the "boogyman" to blame for why we can't ram creationism through the science classes at the local level we'd have to create it...

///

379 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:18:57am

re: #374 Obdicut

Well, with one small modification; there are lots of spending where the cost down the road is definite, is inevitable. There are people who will never use their health care. But if we cut the number of public defenders down, then the number of cases turned over to a new trial inevitably will go up-- and that represents a real and actual cost.

This is just as true for private businesses as it is for public ones. I've experienced it a ton of times myself. Refusing to put money into an early QA process means the schedule stretching out at the end as multiple late fixes are needed, which winds up costing a hell of a lot more than the early QA time would have.

You also can't inspect quality into a result. It's the up front R&D that often doesn't pay off all that wel (blind alleys etc) that results in lower long term costs because the final solution was the right one and required less maintenance, tweaking etc.

380 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:19:39am

re: #379 PT Barnum

You also can't inspect quality into a result. It's the up front R&D that often doesn't pay off all that wel (blind alleys etc) that results in lower long term costs because the final solution was the right one and required less maintenance, tweaking etc.


Nice. Deming would be proud...

381 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:20:03am

re: #375 PT Barnum

Thanks reine. I went and looked but at a different section. I think there's a lot of confusion by non teachers with what the department does and what we think they do.

Yes, there is a huge amount of of confusion as to what the US Dept of Ed. does.

It's current mission in its current life as a cabinet level agency has expanded from the original mission, of keeping statistics and information to aid school systems. But it's still basically the same mission. It does not interfere in local school systems.

382 Jadespring  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:20:33am

re: #366 RogueOne

Thanks. I vaguely recall that time period now. :) Right now is a different story though. Overall the fiscons are wondering what the previous few years budgets have been all about as they are more spendy then balanced and the years of having a surplus were kyboshed. Part of it is related to the global economic down turn of course but regardless the word of the day is spend more and we'll lower taxes.

383 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:20:55am

re: #377 reine.de.tout

It was established as a Cabinet level agency in 1980.
From your link.

Nobody but nobody specified. Be more specific next time. I can't always hear or read what you mean to say.

384 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:21:18am

re: #380 Aceofwhat?

Nice. Deming would be proud...

I was a quality wonk at one time. Deming was required reading.

385 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:21:34am

re: #374 Obdicut

Well, with one small modification; there are lots of spending where the cost down the road is definite, is inevitable.

Individually considered, yes, but overall and statistically those costs are all but inevitable.

386 Jadespring  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:22:12am

Anyways gotta run and get the day started.

See yah all laters.

387 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:22:16am

re: #379 PT Barnum

Yeah. QA is the classic thing that's always shorted in private industry. Every company I've ever worked at is in a constant turmoil with the QA department, since the QA department, when it's working well, appears to not really be doing much. When they catch mistakes and send them back to be fixed on time, it's not noticeable. Things go out on time, everything is great. So the executives start thinking that they can reduce QA, or more often, externalize it to save money. And that usually leads to more rounds of development, more work for everyone else in QA-ing their own product or following up on what QA used to follow up on.

It really takes good leadership to recognize the value of strong QA. The system doesn't produce it naturally.

388 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:01am

re: #383 PT Barnum

Nobody but nobody specified. Be more specific next time. I can't always hear or read what you mean to say.

I wasn't part of the original conversation, just clarifying.

Before 1980 it was, basically, a work unit that collected information. Now it's a cabinet level agency which gives it a bit more power; however, it still does not interfere in local school systems, other than possibly handing out grants for various initiatives.

389 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:30am

And with that, my craving for a some thing spicy to eat has become a ravenous hunger. I'm going to go out and get something nice.

390 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:30am

re: #369 Obdicut

By god yes! If we're going to cut spending, let's not try to let rationality or appropriateness enter the debate. If $500,000 of spending on erosion control prevents $10,000,000 worth of damage, let's cut that by 20% so we can enjoy the benefits of a few million dollars worth of topsoil floating down the river.

You're right. The way we've been going about it has been much more effective. Maybe you could start off by explaining what spending programs should be left untouched? BTW, nice job jumping straight to the freaking out.

We can't afford the direction we're headed and everyone including the president has acknowledged it. Both the discretionary and non-discretionary portions of the budget are going to have to be cut eventually. Do it now before it gets worse.

391 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:58am

re: #387 Obdicut

What do QA and NASCAR have in common? Neither is all that interesting until something goes terribly wrong.

392 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:25:24am

re: #388 reine.de.tout

I wasn't part of the original conversation, just clarifying.

Before 1980 it was, basically, a work unit that collected information. Now it's a cabinet level agency which gives it a bit more power; however, it still does not interfere in local school systems, other than possibly handing out grants for various initiatives.

I wasn't directing that at you, more at the person who was calling for it's complete disbandment. You, I appreciate, for clarifying the issue for me.

{Reine}

393 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:25:39am

re: #391 PT Barnum

What do QA and NASCAR have in common? Neither is all that interesting until something goes terribly wrong.

If NASCAR wants to really find out who the best driver is, have half the cars go around the track the other way,, at the same speeds!!

394 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:26:20am

re: #392 PT Barnum

I wasn't directing that at you, more at the person who was calling for it's its complete disbandment. You, I appreciate, for clarifying the issue for me.

{Reine}

See, our inadequate public education system at work!

395 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:26:46am

re: #390 RogueOne

Cutting across the board by 20% is always going to be a really dumb suggestion, Rogue. Reine can explain to you why a lot better than I can.

Mmm, Jamaican food here I come.

396 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:27:10am

re: #392 PT Barnum

I wasn't directing that at you, more at the person who was calling for it's complete disbandment. You, I appreciate, for clarifying the issue for me.

{Reine}

Then you weren't directing it me either, because I never called for it's "complete disbandment"

I just made a point that for decades prior to it's current incarnation, schools functioned ,, all across the country

397 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:27:19am

re: #393 sattv4u2

If NASCAR wants to really find out who the best driver is, have half the cars go around the track the other way,, at the same speeds!!

Wife calls husband "Honey be careful, the news says some nut is driving wrong way down the interstate."

Husband: "One, there's hundreds of em!"

398 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:27:36am

From PT's link:

One final note: while ED's programs and responsibilities have grown substantially over the years, the Department itself has not. In fact, with a planned fiscal year 2010 level of 4,199, ED's staff is 44 percent below the 7,528 employees who administered Federal education programs in several different agencies in 1980, when the Department was created. These staff reductions, along with a wide range of management improvements, have helped limit administrative costs to approximately 2 percent of the Department's discretionary budget and less than 1 percent of all grants and loans made by the Department. This means that ED delivers about 99 cents on the dollar in education assistance to States, school districts, postsecondary institutions, and students.

Most of the Dept of Ed's spending is in distributing funds.

It does NOT have a huge staff, relative to other agencies.

I have my own questions about the usefulness of some of its programs.

But it's a drop in the bucket; and I'm not sure we'd be "saving" a lot from the federal budget if this agency were to be abolished.

399 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:28:38am

re: #396 sattv4u2

Then you weren't directing it me either, because I never called for it's "complete disbandment"

I just made a point that for decades prior to it's current incarnation, schools functioned ,, all across the country

I overstated my point, but nonetheless, I do think it's valuable to have a clearing house for information about what does and doesn't work. What are the objections to it?

400 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:29:45am

re: #394 PT Barnum

See, our inadequate public education system at work!

Um, you were correct the first time.

401 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:30:12am

re: #395 Obdicut

Cutting across the board by 20% is always going to be a really dumb suggestion, Rogue. Reine can explain to you why a lot better than I can.

Mmm, Jamaican food here I come.

HA! In other words, you don't know but you have a feeling it would be bad. Your feelings are different than mine, my gut tells me there isn't a department in the federal government that couldn't handle a cut. Lets compromise, I want 20%, you want 0%, we'll settle for 13%. That would at least be a start.

402 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:30:47am

re: #398 reine.de.tout


I have my own questions about the usefulness of some of its programs.

I have my questions about the usefulness of much of what government does (as I have about what corporate america does), and I think that's a valuable conversation to have. I have a problem with wholesale cutting just for the sake of cutting.

403 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:32:10am

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

Um, you were correct the first time.

No, he was right in the correction

He didn't mean to say "who was calling for it's (it is)complete disbandment."

Have another cup-o-coffee!

404 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:33:04am

re: #376 sattv4u2

Prior to 1980, Education was wrapped in the Health Education and Welfare Cabinet level position. HEW was split in Health and Human Services and ED.

ED primarily serves to collect education data and disburse block grants. That power has expanded under NCLB, but the ultimate education responsibilities are at the state and local level.

Moreover, most education funding comes from state and local taxes - property taxes in many places, supplemented by personal income tax.

In NJ, property taxes largely fund education budgets and the personal income tax was instituted to provide property tax relief. It's ballooned to the point where NJ taxpayers have some of the highest tax burdens in the nation and property tax relief is a joke since it has frequently meant increasing other taxes to fund tax "relief" programs.

405 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:33:44am

re: #401 RogueOne

HA! In other words, you don't know but you have a feeling it would be bad. Your feelings are different than mine, my gut tells me there isn't a department in the federal government that couldn't handle a cut. Lets compromise, I want 20%, you want 0%, we'll settle for 13%. That would at least be a start.

It seems to me that cutting has gotten to be a fetish among the fiscons. Why not raise revenues to match current spending, then insist that all spending or tax cuts going forward be matched by either increases in revenue or cuts in spending.

Anybody know how much taxes would have to be raised to pay for our current levels of spending?

406 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:33:45am

re: #390 RogueOne

You're right. The way we've been going about it has been much more effective. Maybe you could start off by explaining what spending programs should be left untouched? BTW, nice job jumping straight to the freaking out.

We can't afford the direction we're headed and everyone including the president has acknowledged it. Both the discretionary and non-discretionary portions of the budget are going to have to be cut eventually. Do it now before it gets worse.

Any "across the board" percentage reduction usually means a reduction in employees, not programs, with the remaining employees expected to take up the slack of those who are gone.

At some point, it simply is not prudent or possible to "do more with less". That phrase always means fewer employees taking up the slack. Here's what you get:
Reduced morale and productivity, seasoned employees quitting or retiring because they are flat-out exhausted.

To be effective, a reduction in cost should first take into account the core mission of the agency; and THEN eliminate programs that are nice, but not part of the core mission, along with the employees who administer those programs. This NEVER happens. Everyone has their pet program; no one wants to "lose" whatever service they're getting from it. What happens is that there is a reduction in the number of employees assigned to the program, which means service suffers, and people get pissed off at "dead-head" government employees, who mostly are trying their very best under extremely difficult circumstances.

I've been there, done that.

407 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:34:34am

re: #403 sattv4u2

No, he was right in the correction

He didn't mean to say "who was calling for it's (it is)complete disbandment."

Have another cup-o-coffee!

Wrong. It's= it is.

408 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:34:46am

re: #404 lawhawk

Thansk
I'm aware of all that, and to my point (and REINES) it's the state, county, city and towns that hold power over "your" school, not the DOE

409 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:35:26am

re: #402 PT Barnum

I have my questions about the usefulness of much of what government does (as I have about what corporate america does), and I think that's a valuable conversation to have. I have a problem with wholesale cutting just for the sake of cutting.

but we aren't cutting "just to cut", we need to cut because we're broke. The only time we've ever come close to a balanced budget was through actual cuts in defense and welfare spending, along with a tax increase during an economic boom.

We'll never get close to getting rid of the deficit without having actual cuts. #1. We can't raise taxes when the economy is staggering along at 1% growth and....
#2. We're in a hole, not because of tax cuts, but because of over-spending. Bush, with help from both parties, increased federal spending by 108% in 8 short years. We can't afford that.

410 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:03am

re: #401 RogueOne

Where are my shoes?

No, Rogue, you're not getting it. Any number 'across the board' is dumb. It's the 'across the board' part that's really stupid. The number itself doesn't matter. It's what the spending is actually on, and what it actually achieves, that need to be figured out.

If the money is being spent redundantly, as is a lot of it, then it's perfectly fine to cut. Examples of this: a Federal agency doing inspections of something that has already been inspected by a state agency with higher standards than the federal agency. That goes on all the time. It's dumb. Cut that out.

If the money is being spent with no expected outcome-- wishful spending-- then it needs to be examined. Spending money to 'raise awareness' always bugs me. Spend the money on fixing the problem and raising awareness at the same time.

If the money is being spent and achieving results, then don't fucking cut it. If your fire inspectors are doing a good job of preventing fires, if your health inspectors are doing a good job on cutting down on the botulism outbreaks, then you can look for ways to make it more efficient, but simply cutting spending isn't going to achieve that. It'll most likely just overburden the remaining workers, causing standards to slip, and costs to rise elsewhere in the system as more fires break out, botulism incidents rise, etc.

Do you seriously not understand this?

411 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:32am

re: #407 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wrong. It's= it is.

Thats correct
It's = it is,,, which does NOT fit into the sentence

who was calling for IT IS complete disbandment.

it does fit into

who was calling for its complete disbandment.

Make that an espresso!!

412 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:43am

Ah, there are my shoes.

Actually gone now.

413 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:50am

re: #409 RogueOne

but we aren't cutting "just to cut", we need to cut because we're broke. The only time we've ever come close to a balanced budget was through actual cuts in defense and welfare spending, along with a tax increase during an economic boom.

We'll never get close to getting rid of the deficit without having actual cuts. #1. We can't raise taxes when the economy is staggering along at 1% growth and...
#2. We're in a hole, not because of tax cuts, but because of over-spending. Bush, with help from both parties, increased federal spending by 108% in 8 short years. We can't afford that.

Again, who's going to bell the cat. We can all agree that there are programs that can be cut, but when it comes to which programs, that's when the fighting starts.

414 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:38:52am

re: #411 sattv4u2

Thats correct
It's = it is,,, which does NOT fit into the sentence

who was calling for IT IS complete disbandment.

it does fit into

who was calling for its complete disbandment.

Make that an espresso!!

Good lord...grammar police first thing in the morning. Think I'll go look for my car keys and go get another cup of coffee. BTW, McDonald's coffee has improved immeasurably. It used to be undrinkable but is now actually fairly decent.

415 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:38:57am

re: #413 PT Barnum

Again, who's going to bell the cat. We can all agree that there are programs that can be cut, but when it comes to which programs, that's when the fighting starts.

Eggs-ackly.

Then what happens, more often than not, is that no programs are cut, but the number of employees is reduced (employee costs being one of biggest costs in any governmental agency budget), and then you get reduced levels of service, exhausted employees, pissed off public because the lines are long - it's a mess.

416 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:40:06am

re: #410 Obdicut

I seriously understand that some people will oppose cuts to the fed budget and they'll use whatever rationale they can come up with to justify the continual growth of government.

Since there will always be people who will refuse to compromise and refuse to deal honestly with the budget I say take it out of the politico's and big government types hands and enforce an across the board cut. They can set up some lame-ass commission to blame it on that way none of our esteemed elected officials, or parties, will have to take the blame.

417 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:40:39am

re: #414 PT Barnum

Good lord...grammar police first thing in the morning. Think I'll go look for my car keys and go get another cup of coffee. BTW, McDonald's coffee has improved immeasurably. It used to be undrinkable but is now actually fairly decent.

And here I was, defending your correction!!

Ah well ,, while you're at Mickey D's, can you get me a ,, ummm,, errr,, nevahmind,, nothing there appeals to me!

418 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:41:46am

re: #395 Obdicut

Cutting across the board by 20% is always going to be a really dumb suggestion, Rogue. Reine can explain to you why a lot better than I can.

Mmm, Jamaican food here I come.

Jamaican food for breakfast? Yowza.

419 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:42:31am

re: #418 Aceofwhat?

Jamaican food for breakfast? Yowza.

Wha ,,, you think the whole island waits till noon to eat !?!?!?!

420 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:42:43am

re: #413 PT Barnum

Again, who's going to bell the cat. We can all agree that there are programs that can be cut, but when it comes to which programs, that's when the fighting starts.

That's why I suggested an across the board cut. No one is ever going to agree. We'll be hearing "the (pick your party) want your grandma to die of starvation!" , "The (pick your party) want us to be overrun by a south american army!", and "The (pick your party) wants you to DIE!" for years while they try to sort it out and never really get anywhere. Rip the bandaid off and get it over with.

421 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:43:43am

re: #416 RogueOne

I seriously understand that some people will oppose cuts to the fed budget and they'll use whatever rationale they can come up with to justify the continual growth of government.

Since there will always be people who will refuse to compromise and refuse to deal honestly with the budget I say take it out of the politico's and big government types hands and enforce an across the board cut. They can set up some lame-ass commission to blame it on that way none of our esteemed elected officials, or parties, will have to take the blame.

Our governor here did just that, did a 10% cut across the board. By the way, he's a Democrat. The GOP folks in the house and senate screamed bloody murder.

422 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:44:14am

re: #419 sattv4u2

Wha ,,, you think the whole island waits till noon to eat !?!?!?!

good point...my work-from-home Mondays play with my eating schedule.

423 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:44:15am

re: #417 sattv4u2

And here I was, defending your correction!!

Ah well ,, while you're at Mickey D's, can you get me a ,, ummm,, errr,, nevahmind,, nothing there appeals to me!

I actually appreciated your defense. I just didn't think it was worth more than one post :)

424 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:21am

re: #421 PT Barnum

Our governor here did just that, did a 10% cut across the board. By the way, he's a Democrat. The GOP folks in the house and senate screamed bloody murder.

Which Gov?

425 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:38am

re: #424 RogueOne

Which Gov?

Culver

426 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:38am

re: #423 PT Barnum

I actually appreciated your defense. I just didn't think it was worth more than one post :)

ahh , I'm just screwin with CCA

((an ongoing thing with us))

427 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:58am

re: #426 sattv4u2

ahh , I'm just screwin with CCA

((an ongoing thing with us))

Get a room!

428 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:46:42am

re: #425 PT Barnum

Culver

More info:

429 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:46:57am

re: #427 PT Barnum

Get a room!

You have something against public displays of affection!?!?

430 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:47:16am

re: #425 PT Barnum

Culver

I didn't know you were from Iowa, or if I did I had forgotten. My condolences./

My in-laws live in Iowa, just outside the SD border.

431 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:48:26am

A sad end to a (once) great line of American Autos


Pontiac, maker of muscle cars, ends after 84 years
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

432 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:48:40am

re: #429 sattv4u2

You have something against public displays of affection!?!?

Can't we just spoon? I am out for a bit.

433 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:49:15am

BRB, I have to go interface with the local county officials. My guess is this is going to take awhile.

Remind me to tell you folks about the local county precinct leader throwing a fit with one of my employees about a political sign in his yard this weekend. All dem signs but one and the guy pulls over to go complain about the one R sign in the yard.

434 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:49:25am

re: #432 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can't we just spoon? I am out for a bit.

Fork it!

435 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:51:12am

re: #430 RogueOne

I didn't know you were from Iowa, or if I did I had forgotten. My condolences./

My in-laws live in Iowa, just outside the SD border.

I feel sorry for anybody who doesn't live here. The air is clean (except when you drive by the hog confinements) and the crime rate is low, and people are pretty damned friendly and helpful. Now Missouri, or Minnesota, on the other hand.

436 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:51:23am

re: #422 Aceofwhat?

good point...my work-from-home Mondays play with my eating schedule.

I'm working from home today also..Don't feel well today

437 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:51:59am

re: #430 RogueOne

I didn't know you were from Iowa, or if I did I had forgotten. My condolences./

My in-laws live in Iowa, just outside the SD border.

Where abouts? I lived in Rock Rapids and Sioux City both for a while.

438 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:52:19am

Well gotta go..really.

439 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:52:39am

re: #431 sattv4u2

A sad end to a (once) great line of American Autos

Pontiac, maker of muscle cars, ends after 84 years
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

RIP Pontiac. I have owned some great Grand Prix's.

440 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:54:59am

Oh, gawd.
Political phone calls starting up already today.
I think I shall turn off my phone for the rest of the day.

441 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:56:10am

re: #436 HoosierHoops

I'm working from home today also..Don't feel well today

sorry about that. yeah, i just started working again but it's out of state, so i travel from Tues-Fri.

442 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:59:45am

re: #416 RogueOne

I seriously understand that some people will oppose cuts to the fed budget and they'll use whatever rationale they can come up with to justify the continual growth of government.

Yes, I admit: I want to grow government until it smothers all private incentive us and dominates every aspect of our lives. That is why I voted for Obama in 2008 and will continue to vote for anyone who promises me more government and less personal responsibility.


/

443 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:02:05am

re: #442 ralphieboy

Yes, I admit: I want to grow government until it smothers all private incentive us and dominates every aspect of our lives. That is why I voted for Obama in 2008 and will continue to vote for anyone who promises me more government and less personal responsibility.

/

Sarc aside, lots of people do!

444 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:05:17am

Keep your government hands off my Medicare!!!

445 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:09:14am

Ah well ,,,

Shower time

446 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:11:14am

re: #444 ralphieboy

And Medicaid. Yet, that's one of the biggest components of spending at the state level in places like NY - and the state simply cannot afford its current levels of funding. Yet, if it tries to reduce the spending, hospitals and unions will both proclaim that it will kill people because hospitals will close, health care workers will be thrown out of work, and worse.

Yet, the system in NY is broken and bears little relation to what the state can afford and how it can achieve a goal of health care support.

447 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:13:04am

re: #446 lawhawk

And Medicaid. Yet, that's one of the biggest components of spending at the state level in places like NY - and the state simply cannot afford its current levels of funding. Yet, if it tries to reduce the spending, hospitals and unions will both proclaim that it will kill people because hospitals will close, health care workers will be thrown out of work, and worse.

Yet, the system in NY is broken and bears little relation to what the state can afford and how it can achieve a goal of health care support.

and all that is despite NY's tremendous tax burden...

448 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:14:04am

re: #441 Aceofwhat?

sorry about that. yeah, i just started working again but it's out of state, so i travel from Tues-Fri.

Well, that's not easy!

449 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:17:59am

re: #446 lawhawk

And Medicaid. Yet, that's one of the biggest components of spending at the state level in places like NY - and the state simply cannot afford its current levels of funding.

Why not? Could they afford it if they raised taxes?

It seems to me that the discussion about healthcare (and indeed all similar things such as education, public infrastructure, fire protection etc.) should go like this:

- What kind of service/coverage do we want/is acceptable?
- How much does it cost to provide it?
- How do we maximize utility by balancing spending on various items?

Maybe the answer is to raise taxes and pay for more healthcare and better roads? It seems that there is an unspoken assumption in your "the state can't afford it" claim, which is that state revenues remain constant. This is not necessarily the case.

450 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:18:40am

re: #448 reine.de.tout

Well, that's not easy!

It's not bad. I'm actually a bit sheepish about the whole thing...unemployment is at record highs and i barely had time to catch my breath before i fell into another job again.

And only being gone 3 nights per week, especially during school months, isn't bad.

451 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:19:08am

re: #449 iossarian

Why not? Could they afford it if they raised taxes?

It seems to me that the discussion about healthcare (and indeed all similar things such as education, public infrastructure, fire protection etc.) should go like this:

- What kind of service/coverage do we want/is acceptable?
- How much does it cost to provide it?
- How do we maximize utility by balancing spending on various items?

Maybe the answer is to raise taxes and pay for more healthcare and better roads? It seems that there is an unspoken assumption in your "the state can't afford it" claim, which is that state revenues remain constant. This is not necessarily the case.

raise taxes in NY?? seriously?

452 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:19:20am

re: #443 sattv4u2

Sarc aside, lots of people do!

I confess, I vote Democratic because I can't be bothered to look after myself.

///

453 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:20:34am

re: #451 Aceofwhat?

raise taxes in NY?? seriously?

Why not?

Presumably the reason is that there are a bunch of bond traders who would get all upset if someone took their precious money away. Poor little darlings.

454 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:27:12am

re: #453 iossarian

Why not?

Presumably the reason is that there are a bunch of bond traders who would get all upset if someone took their precious money away. Poor little darlings.

you know, the funny thing about states is that they're different. and we can observe said differences in an attempt to learn things.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

455 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:27:21am

re: #449 iossarian

In NY, the state budget is highly dependent on Wall Street - aka the rich. When Wall Street falters, the state's revenues drop off a cliff. It's a problem duplicated in NYC, which has its own tax layered on top of the state rates.

So, when you say that the rich can afford to absorb higher taxes, we've seen what happens when they don't. You get multibillion dollar deficits meaning that everyone has to pay more. When times are flush, the state spent like a drunken sailor. It got worse when it was abundantly clear that revenues were dropping on Wall Street. That accelerated the deficits.

NY tops spending on law enforcement, education, and health care (when you look at per capita levels, you'd find NY at or near the top of the list). You would think that critical spending like for health, law enforcement and education would result in high quality, and yet that isn't exactly the case. Education dollars don't find their way into the classrooms, and instead into bureaucracies. Law enforcement has done more with less - dealing with ongoing terror threats, with the same or fewer cops by shifting desk jobs to civilians. Infrastructure is falling apart around the state, and the public authorities that run much of the infrastructure aren't nearly as transparent as they should be and can't contain their costs either.

Health outcomes - like life expectancy aren't as high as they should be.

With education, the focus is on putting all kinds of technologies into classrooms, and yet countries that outperform the US on diagnostic testing provide little technology in the classroom. Instead of outfitting classrooms with computers, focus on spending it on teachers who can actually teach. Gee-wiz technology has to be replaced every couple of years, and that's a burden that the schools can't afford. It's one thing to have computer labs with top of the line computer systems, but it isn't necessary for every classroom to be so equipped.

Then, you've got teachers jumping through hoops to institute curriculum changes every couple of years for the heck of it rather than going with tried-and-true education methods that demand student performance and accountability while learning concepts that they will need to use and develop throughout their life.

456 Slap  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:28:58am

re: #437 PT Barnum

Where abouts? I lived in Rock Rapids and Sioux City both for a while.

When I lived in Omaha for a few years, I was informed that Iowa actually stood for "idiots out wandering around".

Nebraska humor, I guess.

457 Slap  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:30:56am

re: #440 reine.de.tout

This time of year, I'm VERY thankful for Caller ID.....

458 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:31:34am

I have a job interview on Wednesday!

Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?

I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"

459 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:31:37am

re: #453 iossarian

Why not?

Presumably the reason is that there are a bunch of bond traders who would get all upset if someone took their precious money away. Poor little darlings.

also required reading for "let's just tax the rich people" types: Mankiw.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

460 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:32:59am

re: #455 lawhawk

Well, most of your post is saying that money needs to be spent differently, not that it shouldn't be spent.

I've said it before on here regarding education - the main cause of increasing bureaucracy is that voters tend to increasingly demand "accountability", which essentially means more form fillers filling in forms. I think a balance between accountability and a focus on the essentials is what is needed.

Anyway, my beef was with the claim that the state "can't afford" something, which
I don't think is true when overall tax rates are still significantly lower than, e.g., Europe, even in NY.

461 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:34:54am

re: #458 Alouette

I have a job interview on Wednesday!

Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?

I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"

What sort of tough questions do you expect?
(worked 30 years in HR).

462 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:34:57am

re: #456 Slap

When I lived in Omaha for a few years, I was informed that Iowa actually stood for "idiots out wandering around".

Nebraska humor, I guess.

I learned that when i found out (this is ~10 years ago) that a group of employees had developed that term for one of my then-fellow supervisors.

1. It's never good when that's a nickname for a supervisor.
2. It's even worse when the employees are right.

I haven't often worked behind the scenes to get a co-worker fired, but i may have let Iowa throw herself under the bus...

463 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:35:00am

re: #459 Aceofwhat?

That article makes me chuckle, because I don't really think America is much affected by whether Mr. Mankiw decides to give some extra lectures to business conferences in Aspen, or not.

In fact, given that he was an advisor to Bush, we might all be better off if he just kept his ideas to himself for a few years.

464 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:35:48am

re: #458 Alouette

I have a job interview on Wednesday!

Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?

I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"

would love to help. what's a tough question that you expect to receive?

and congrats on the interview!!

465 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:36:08am

re: #458 Alouette

I suggest doing a lot of research on the company and showing a lot of awareness of what they're up to. Questions can help you demonstrate that depth of knowledge. That's one of the most-overlooked things by interviewees.

Good luck!

466 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:36:56am

The awesome double-whammy effect of taxing the rich:

A) Increased revenues to pay for healthcare
B) Right-wing blowhards "go Galt" and we never hear from them again

467 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:38:49am

re: #437 PT Barnum

Where abouts? I lived in Rock Rapids and Sioux City both for a while.

I met my wife in Sioux City, what a dirt hole!

468 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:29am

re: #442 ralphieboy

Yes, I admit: I want to grow government until it smothers all private incentive us and dominates every aspect of our lives. That is why I voted for Obama in 2008 and will continue to vote for anyone who promises me more government and less personal responsibility.

/

I KNEW it! I could smell it on you.

469 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:42am

re: #459 Aceofwhat?

There was a time, back in the age of national economies and before widespread globalization, when we might expect a tax cut for corporations and high earners to be reinvested in domestic job creation.

Now investment follows the path of highest returns, and if those higher returns are to be had by investing in jobs abroad, that's where the money goes.

470 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:50am

re: #463 iossarian

That article makes me chuckle, because I don't really think America is much affected by whether Mr. Mankiw decides to give some extra lectures to business conferences in Aspen, or not.

In fact, given that he was an advisor to Bush, we might all be better off if he just kept his ideas to himself for a few years.

if that's all that you got out of the article, you might want to think about recusing yourself from some of our more wonkish economic discussions.

because it wasn't about Mankiw.

(and clearly you have no idea who Mankiw is. let me guess...you like to think of yourself as a 'fact-based' democrat, except when we're discussing subjects you know nothing about)

471 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:52am

Go Prop 19!

472 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:40:01am

re: #460 iossarian

Part of it is that spending priorities have to be changed, but part of it is reducing spending. NYers have continued moving out of the state because of the tax burden to other states with lesser burdens because they can't deal with the existing tax burden.

Forbes has a great tool to see where and how people are moving around the country, and there's a clear indication that people in high tax states are moving to lower tax burden states.

473 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:40:16am

More of that three letter word would be an immense help:
J-O-B-S!

474 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:42:05am

re: #458 Alouette

I have a job interview on Wednesday!

Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?

I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"

OK, well.
There are some questions that sound odd, but that are designed to elicit information not obvious to you. For instance, questions such as: What job did you like best? What job did you like least? - are designed to find out from you what sort of ambience you are most comfortable working in (I really hated that job as a receptionist! The phone ringing drove me crazy! - probably means they won't hire you for a job requiring a lot of client or public contact).

Anyhoo - answer the questions honestly, but try to put yourself in the best possible light with all of them. If you describe the job you liked least, describe why (My least favorite job was receptionist. People called with problems and I wanted to help them, but had to transfer the call, which I know people hate! I tried to let them know that call transfers would be minimal.)

475 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:42:21am

re: #458 Alouette

I have a job interview on Wednesday!

Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?

I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"


I got caught on a question once... What kind of trade magizines do you read? If you are applying for a logistics job for instance....know the name of some logistics mags..have a few quotes handy to drop..
Man that question still pisses me off...

476 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:42:33am

re: #469 ralphieboy

There was a time, back in the age of national economies and before widespread globalization, when we might expect a tax cut for corporations and high earners to be reinvested in domestic job creation.

Now investment follows the path of highest returns, and if those higher returns are to be had by investing in jobs abroad, that's where the money goes.

no one here is saying that taxes should just be cut and cut and cut because it will magically make money grow on trees.

i am saying that when an entity (in this case, high-earners) is particularly tax-sensitive, neither can we tax and tax and tax because it will magically make money grow on trees, despite the earnest wishes of some of my fellow lizards.

477 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:44:00am

re: #475 HoosierHoops

I got caught on a question once... What kind of trade magizines do you read? If you are applying for a logistics job for instance...know the name of some logistics mags..have a few quotes handy to drop..
Man that question still pisses me off...

oh, that's a tricksy one.

478 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:44:21am

re: #466 iossarian

The thing is, the language we use to discuss taxation is all wrong. We don't tax the rich. We tax high incomes. We don't tax wealth at all.

And while we talk about income taxes, we need to simultaneously talk about capital gains taxes. Right now, as Buffet has pointed out, many of those with incredibly high incomes pay a lower amount of taxation on their income than their secretaries do.

Taxation is not about fairness, it is not about justice, it is not about anything high-falutin'. Taxation should be about doing the most good with the least harm.

We have experienced a large growth in income disparity in this nation over the past decades. Even Alan Greenspan has seen it as an incredibly big problem. I'm not saying it's a problem in terms of social justice, or ethics, or fairness, but a problem of system engineering; capitalism will not continue to work if wealth becomes stratified, because capital is, in capitalism, a barrier to entry.

This is a really, really excellent ten part series that looks at the income disparity, and soberly, deeply analyzes possible causes and outcomes.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

I urge everyone to read it.

479 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:45:34am

re: #470 Aceofwhat?

if that's all that you got out of the article, you might want to think about recusing yourself from some of our more wonkish economic discussions.

because it wasn't about Mankiw.

Um, from the article, where Mankiw discusses the "bottom line":

HERE’S the bottom line: Without any taxes, accepting that editor’s assignment would have yielded my children an extra $10,000. With taxes, it yields only $1,000. In effect, once the entire tax system is taken into account, my family’s marginal tax rate is about 90 percent. Is it any wonder that I turn down most of the money-making opportunities I am offered?

Big yourself up with the "wonkishness". I read the above as a rich right-winger whining about how taxes are killing his incentive to "work".

The reality is that a progressive taxation system will mean that high-income individuals are taxed fairly heavily on incremental income. I am aware of this effect myself (though I am not as well-rewarded as Mankiw).

This is regarded as fair by people like myself, because A) I have benefited immensely from society through my education and my opportunity to earn and B) there are lots of people who, through no fault of their own (e.g., disability) do not have the same opportunity to provide for themselves.

But please, blow me away with your wonkish power of reasoning some more!

480 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:45:48am

re: #478 Obdicut

Taxation is not about fairness, it is not about justice, it is not about anything high-falutin'. Taxation should be about doing the most good with the least harm.

This^eleventy.

If everyone rallied around the principle Obdi outlined above, we'd take a quantum leap forward in our treatment of the issue.

481 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:47:25am

re: #456 Slap

When I lived in Omaha for a few years, I was informed that Iowa actually stood for "idiots out wandering around".

Nebraska humor, I guess.

I have a friend who just took a position with his corporate office in Omaha. I warned him. It's a springboard job for a better position so he's hoping not to have to stay very long. The good part of it is there's a White Castle in Omaha, the only one in about a 700 mile radius.

482 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:48:04am

re: #480 Aceofwhat?

This^eleventy.

If everyone rallied around the principle Obdi outlined above, we'd take a quantum leap forward in our treatment of the issue.

Ah, but without the notion of "fairness", how can you define "the most amount of good with the least harm"?

You can't just sweep your ethics under the carpet (though many economists would like to).

483 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:49:26am

re: #479 iossarian

Um, from the article, where Mankiw discusses the "bottom line":

Big yourself up with the "wonkishness". I read the above as a rich right-winger whining about how taxes are killing his incentive to "work".

The reality is that a progressive taxation system will mean that high-income individuals are taxed fairly heavily on incremental income. I am aware of this effect myself (though I am not as well-rewarded as Mankiw).

This is regarded as fair by people like myself, because A) I have benefited immensely from society through my education and my opportunity to earn and B) there are lots of people who, through no fault of their own (e.g., disability) do not have the same opportunity to provide for themselves.

But please, blow me away with your wonkish power of reasoning some more!



Or, someday, you may need treatment from a highly trained surgeon, or your child may need braces from the local orthodontist. Like me, these individuals respond to incentives. (Indeed, some studies report that high-income taxpayers are particularly responsive to taxes.) As they face higher tax rates, their services will be in shorter supply.

Here's the paper that Mankiw references:

We find that the overall elasticity of taxable income is approximately 0.4; the elasticity of real income, not including tax preferences, is much lower. We also estimate small income effects on tax changes on reported income, implying that the compensated and uncompensated elasticities of taxable income are very similar. We estimate that this overall elasticity is primarily due to a very elastic response of taxable income for taxpayers who have incomes above $100,000 per year, who have an elasticity of 0.57, while for those with incomes below $100,000 per year the elasticity is less than one-third as large. Moreover, high income taxpayers who itemize are particularly responsive to taxation.

484 insert name here  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:50:30am

Again, not germane (see #324 re: reine.de.tout), but some of these comments would make great free verse...
re: #469 ralphieboy

There was a time,
back in the age of national economies
and before widespread globalization,
when we might expect a tax cut
for corporations and high earners
to be reinvested in domestic job creation.

Now investment follows
the path of highest returns,
and if those higher returns are to be had
by investing
in jobs abroad,
that's where the money goes.

485 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:50:50am

re: #483 Aceofwhat?

Yes, there are no orthodontists in Denmark, what with their cripplingly high rates of taxation. /

Seriously. Right-wing economist expresses right-wing view of taxation policy. Film at 11.

486 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:53:03am

re: #482 iossarian

Ah, but without the notion of "fairness", how can you define "the most amount of good with the least harm"?

You can't just sweep your ethics under the carpet (though many economists would like to).

"The most revenue with the least harm" = maximizing current and future earnings.

"Good" in that sentence is a synonym for "revenue", not "just" or "ethical".

Yeesh.

487 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:53:16am

re: #482 iossarian

Hell, even if we just define it in terms of "The Wealth of Nations", we'll be ahead of where we were before.

One very good point that the article makes is that the share of corporate profits for financial companies rose from about 10% of all corporate profits to about 40%. This represents the ever-increasing abstractness of the financial industry, as can easily be seen in this most recent meltdown. That increase in profits does not represent any sort of increase in actual 'wealth' for the nation. It doesn't represent new knowledge, new science, new technology, new physical assets, but a way of reordering them that gives them a higher value-- which is true until the market collapses.

Money is a great thing and a terrible thing all at the same time-- the money made from selling a pack of cigarettes is the same as the money made from selling a bunch of apples. The apples, however, are a net good, and the cigarettes are a net loss, in terms of the wealth of the nation. Money is a store not of true value, but of perceived value.

488 insert name here  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:53:28am

(By the way, my apologies for the interruption to the great thread of comments, but for some weird reason, some of them are really singing this morning).

489 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:54:41am

re: #486 Aceofwhat?

"The most revenue with the least harm" = maximizing current and future earnings.

"Good" in that sentence is a synonym for "revenue", not "just" or "ethical".

Yeesh.

Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?

Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.

490 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:55:23am

re: #485 iossarian

Yes, there are no orthodontists in Denmark, what with their cripplingly high rates of taxation. /

Seriously. Right-wing economist expresses right-wing view of taxation policy. Film at 11.

Seriously. Left-wing purports to like 'data' until it falls outside of their world view.

And Mankiw is a die-hard supporter of a pigovian carbon solution. yeah. real wingnut there.

9_9

491 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:55:56am

re: #484 insert name here

I was one of those nerds who used to memorize poetry. I like to think that it has had a positive effect on the way I express myself.

492 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:56:11am

re: #488 insert name here

No apology necessary
Breaking for poetry seems
A lyrical miner's canary
To let us know, by its voice
That for words, we're spoiled by choice
And all songs turn to dreams.

493 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:57:48am

re: #489 iossarian

Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?

Note, the total current revenue is the same in both cases.

one of those is far less sustainable, which i highlighted by fixing your post. thus the emphasis on future benefits and not just a letstaxthebastards tunnel-vision approach to maximizing revenue today.

494 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:57:56am

Way to go Brazil:

Ex-guerrilla to be Brazil's first female president
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]


SAO PAULO – A former Marxist guerrilla who was tortured and imprisoned during Brazil's long dictatorship was elected Sunday as president of Latin America's biggest nation, a country in the midst of an economic and political rise.
.....
In 1967, as a 19-year-old economics student, she joined a militant political group opposing the dictatorship. For three years she helped lead guerrilla organizations, instructed comrades on Marxist theory and wrote for an underground newspaper.

Rousseff denies carrying out any acts of violence during this period, says she opposed such action and notes she was never accused by the military regime of violent acts.

After three years underground, Rousseff was captured in 1970 by Brazil's military police and was considered a big enough catch that a military prosecutor labeled her the "Joan of Arc" of the guerrilla movement.

She was tossed into the Tiradentes prison where she was submitted to brutal torture.
.......
Rousseff says her political thinking has evolved drastically — from Marxism to pragmatic capitalism — but she remains proud of her radical roots.

"We fought and participated in a dream to build a better Brazil," she said in an interview published in the newspaper Folha de S. Paulo in 2005, one of the rare times she has spoken in detail about her militancy and torture endured.

"We learned a lot. We did a lot of nonsense, but that is not what characterizes us. What characterizes us is to have dared to want a better country."

495 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:58:47am

re: #490 Aceofwhat?

Mankiw's essay is not impressive. He's dishonestly applying the estate tax to his own income, which is really ridiculous; he's combining two entirely separate arguments at once-- the utility of the estate tax and the utility of all income taxes-- and doing them both a disservice by doing so.

496 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:59:21am

re: #490 Aceofwhat?

Seriously. Left-wing purports to like 'data' until it falls outside of their world view.

And Mankiw is a die-hard supporter of a pigovian carbon solution. yeah. real wingnut there.

9_9

I said Mankiw was a right-winger, I didn't say he was a crazy. He's clearly intelligent (though that doesn't mean that I would agree with his ethics).

What "data" am I arguing with? I accept that taxing rich people highly will mean they have less incentive to perform additional work. What I am saying is that this is no big loss to society, hence my comment about the fact that high-tax countries such as Denmark seem to be doing OK (they are not disintegrating due to lack of orthodontistry).

497 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:59:58am

re: #489 iossarian

Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?

Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.

People's income isn't static.
There have been times in my life when I worked at minimum wage.
But was making much more than min when I retired.

Now I may get hired for a part-time job at less than I made when I retired, all the way back down to min again.

498 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:01:00am

re: #489 iossarian

Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?

Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.

oh, and a system where everyone makes $2 a day isn't a fair system either.

499 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:01:13am

re: #493 Aceofwhat?

one of those is far less sustainable, which i highlighted by fixing your post. thus the emphasis on future benefits and not just a letstaxthebastards tunnel-vision approach to maximizing revenue today.

Which is less sustainable?

BTW, thanks for characterizing my view as being based on envy. As implied above, I am actually advocating that my own tax rate be raised.

500 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:02:03am

re: #498 Aceofwhat?

oh, and a system where everyone makes $2 a day isn't a fair system either.

Why not? I didn't tell you anything else about the country, just what people earned?

Without knowing anything else about the country, is it possible to make a judgement regarding fairness?

501 iossarian  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:03:17am

BIAB

502 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:04:58am

re: #495 Obdicut

Mankiw's essay is not impressive. He's dishonestly applying the estate tax to his own income, which is really ridiculous; he's combining two entirely separate arguments at once-- the utility of the estate tax and the utility of all income taxes-- and doing them both a disservice by doing so.

it was too simplistic an essay to be impressive, but it's a simple point: there is no money tree called "the rich" that we can simply shake harder in order to receive more mannah.

this is from Mankiw's blog-

The Stones are famously tax-averse. I broach the subject with Keith [Richards] in Camp X-Ray, as he calls his backstage lair. There is incense in the air and Ronnie Wood drifts in and out--it is, in other words, a perfect venue for such a discussion. "The whole business thing is predicated a lot on the tax laws," says Keith, Marlboro in one hand, vodka and juice in the other. "It's why we rehearse in Canada and not in the U.S. A lot of our astute moves have been basically keeping up with tax laws, where to go, where not to put it. Whether to sit on it or not. We left England because we'd be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out. No taxes at all. I don't want to screw anybody out of anything, least of all the governments that I work with. We put 30% in holding until we sort it out." No wonder Keith chooses to live not in London, or even New York City, but in Weston, Conn.
503 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:05:52am

re: #500 iossarian

Why not? I didn't tell you anything else about the country, just what people earned?

Without knowing anything else about the country, is it possible to make a judgement regarding fairness?

if you know something about economics...yes.

i will consider you impressed with my wonkishness;)

lunchtime- bbl

504 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:06:35am

re: #499 iossarian

Which is less sustainable?

BTW, thanks for characterizing my view as being based on envy. As implied above, I am actually advocating that my own tax rate be raised.

in no way did i characterize your view as being based on envy. where in the hell did you get that from?

505 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:08:54am

re: #489 iossarian

Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?

Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.

This sort of disparity between concentration of wealth and the public good reached its extreme during the Highland Clearances of the early 1800's, during which landlords were able to generate more revenue from raising sheep on their lands than by renting it out to tenant farmers.

Whole stretches of the Highlands were emptied of population. Later, when the British Empire was looking for soldiers to defend it, a Highlander's response was quoted as "Since they prefer sheep to people, let them get sheep to defend them!"

506 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:10:16am

re: #487 Obdicut

I also noticed (other reading) how much of that upper 1% wealth was fictitious capitol. The air in the bubble. Investing is derivatives, securities on foolish mortgages and overvalued "blue chip" stocks. "They" lost money, we lost jobs and homes.

As I read past part one, I'd bring this up, in hopes it is addressed. The apples vs cigarettes thing reminded me... Would I want to have seen the great American dot com entrepreneurs taxed more heavily? Maybe not. Would I have wanted to tax Wall streeters incomes more heavily? Sure, because I try to figure in the value of the entrepreneurial rich as better for the economy than the offshore mfr or fictitious capital trader.

507 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:14:28am

re: #502 Aceofwhat?

it was too simplistic an essay to be impressive, but it's a simple point: there is no money tree called "the rich" that we can simply shake harder in order to receive more mannah.

Sure. But I don't know anyone who thinks that there is, nor is that a useful way of framing the debate. And really, the disservice done by a lax treatment of the most important issue-- the estate tax-- makes that essay, to me, reprehensibly disingenuous.

508 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:17:37am

re: #506 Rightwingconspirator

And then we enter the murky waters of defining income differently when it comes from different sources, which can quickly lead to a byzantine tax code.

I think most of the Wall Street stuff should be handled through regulation before the fact, rather than attempts to tax the fictitious monies; not allowing as much fictional money to be produced.

People accuse the government of just printing money, but in many ways, Wall Street has been far more responsible than the government for that.

509 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:22:09am

re: #508 Obdicut

People accuse the government of just printing money, but in many ways, Wall Street has been far more responsible than the government for that.

*High five*

510 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:32:51am

re: #505 ralphieboy

That's an excellent example. The classic American one is the increased mechanization of industry. People are under the false impression that our manufacturing capacity and output has been on the decline. It hasn't. Our manufacturing sector is huge and strong. It has, however, hemmoraghed jobs as productivity-per-worker has skyrocketed. Many large chemical plants have just a handful of employees.

This gives the lie to the 'tax breaks create jobs' pablum that gets spread around so frequently. Many businesses succeed not by creating jobs, but eliminating them. Tax breaks may, in some industries, create jobs. In others, they may actively reward the destruction of jobs.

511 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:36:39am

re: #510 Obdicut
Good points..Wish I understood economics more..It is so complex

512 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:37:34am

re: #500 iossarian

Why not? I didn't tell you anything else about the country, just what people earned?

Without knowing anything else about the country, is it possible to make a judgment regarding fairness?

No. Which is why I didn't comment on the scenario earlier. Without data on the people's occupations, the nation's economic set-up, etc. it's too simple a situation to draw reasonable conclusions. About all it might really be testing is what conclusions commentators might be willing to project on it with the data lacking.

513 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:38:49am

re: #511 HoosierHoops

Good points..Wish I understood economics more..It is so complex

Well, that's the most important part to understand. It's systems engineering, just like IT.

A lot of people treat economics the way that bad IT guys treat IT systems; they don't think about the way that it will evolve with use. They think once you set it up once it'll work perfectly forever.

514 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:39:30am

re: #510 Obdicut

The manufacturing that did go offshore, is that not in fact a proof of mfg declines here? Steel, textiles, jewelry.... CFL's from China, motherboards from Taiwan. Or if that is an American companies facility are you still counting that as American mfg?

515 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:44:10am

For those looking for some enlightening reading for the hectic holiday season: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy

516 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:48:21am

re: #513 Obdicut

Well, that's the most important part to understand. It's systems engineering, just like IT.

A lot of people treat economics the way that bad IT guys treat IT systems; they don't think about the way that it will evolve with use. They think once you set it up once it'll work perfectly forever.

I liked the point you made about tax cuts. I don't think Companies hire people because they get a tax cut.. They hire the amount of people required to make a profit..If a thousand people are required to do the job then all a tax cut does is give them more profit..Why hire another 100 people when all they need is 1000? When the orders require another 100 people the company will hire them..
Does that make sense?

517 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:50:45am

Michelle Obama Feeds Children ‘Dried Fruit’ at White House Halloween ‘Party’

....thousands of small children attended a White House Halloween veggie potluck, and it was probably the worst night of their young lives. There is overwhelming evidence that this so-called White House Halloween Rave was actually just Michelle Obama handing out bags of dried fruit. Dried fruit? (“Muslim Skittles”?)

518 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:52:28am

re: #514 Rightwingconspirator

The manufacturing that did go offshore, is that not in fact a proof of mfg declines here? Steel, textiles, jewelry... CFL's from China, motherboards from Taiwan. Or if that is an American companies facility are you still counting that as American mfg?

No, the kind of manufacturing changed. But we still grew manufacturing capacity. We've definitely lost a lot of different kinds of manufacturing-- but we've grown even more. What we've lost is the jobs.

519 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:53:16am

re: #516 HoosierHoops

I liked the point you made about tax cuts. I don't think Companies hire people because they get a tax cut.. They hire the amount of people required to make a profit..If a thousand people are required to do the job then all a tax cut does is give them more profit..Why hire another 100 people when all they need is 1000? When the orders require another 100 people the company will hire them..
Does that make sense?

ding ding ding.

a prime economic lesson that the allegedly smart people at the AEI, Heritage and the Chamber of Commerce never seemed to understand.........(or let on that they understand anyways).

520 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:53:26am

re: #517 Killgore Trout

Michelle Obama Feeds Children ‘Dried Fruit’ at White House Halloween ‘Party’

Dried Fruit? I'd soap the WH windows or TP some trees..
/

521 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:55:11am

re: #516 HoosierHoops

Exactly. Employees do not have high capital costs. There's a small amount of money invested in searching for and hiring a new employee, but if an employee is profitable, the company will fill that position.

It's similar to the price point that products are sold at; it's not production cost + x, (in almost all markets) it's the best price point for the market, where the calculus of number of people who will buy it meets the profit margin.

522 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:58:25am

How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?


Heh.
523 Vambo  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:59:29am

re: #459 Aceofwhat?

also required reading for "let's just tax the rich people" types: Mankiw.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

What a joke. Millions of people in this country don't get paid enough, and they still fucking work.

524 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:01:19am

re: #522 Killgore Trout

How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?

[Video]
Heh.

LOL. They threatened to blow up the Fox News van and beat up a Fox reporter.

525 Buck  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:03:15am

re: #199 PT Barnum

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but this, to me, is incredibly racist


[Video]

There was a joke that was being told early in the GWB years.

George Bush falls into a coma, and wakes up 20 years later.

He has many questions about what has happened in the meanwhile, but is most concerned about what is happening in his country.

What is the current unemployment stats?

Oh, you will be pleased to know that unemployment is almost completely eradicated. Anyone who wants a job can get one.

How are we with foreign relations?

You will be happy to hear that we are friends with many of the countries we once thought of as enemies.

OK, I am just curios about the local economy. How much is a cup of coffee on Mainstreet USA?

Very reasonable, about 20 yen.


-----------------------------
Similar sort of cautionary tale, that yes could be thought of as racist.

Substitute in the video (or the joke) Russian references, or even Middle Eastern....It could just as easily be a Saudi Professor and "Saudi riyal"

Frankly Saturday Night Live did a similar sketch last year where the Chinese President felt Obama was screwing him by not being economically vigilant and lecturing China. Could have been thought of as racist.

526 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:04:42am

re: #522 Killgore Trout

Me thinks interchangable blonde fox news model needs journalistic validation.

527 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:05:33am

Another "suspicious" package shuts down highway. Good thing they didn't blow it up to find out what was in it:

528 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:05:59am

re: #523 Vambo

What a joke. Millions of people in this country don't get paid enough, and they still fucking work.

Goes back to the "discussion" the other week that showed people had no clue as to how tiered tax brackets work.

529 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:06:41am

re: #525 Buck

Um, yen?

Those are Japanese.

The Japanese are in a hell of a recession, and have been for awhile.

Did you mean yuan?

530 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:07:02am

re: #524 Killgore Trout

LOL. They threatened to blow up the Fox News van and beat up a Fox reporter.

That was pretty funny KT...When you think about it..If you threaten to blow up the Fox news van why bother beating up the reporter? kind of *cough* overkill.. LOL

531 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:07:45am

re: #528 wozzablog

Keith Richards: “We left England because we’d be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out.”
[Link: www.you.com.au...]

532 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:08:49am

re: #527 RogueOne

Another "suspicious" package shuts down highway. Good thing they didn't blow it up to find out what was in it:

[Video]

So the bomb squad is afraid of kittens? I thought they had nerves of steel...

533 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:09:47am

re: #531 RogueOne


The Stones are famously tax-averse. I broach the subject with Keith in Camp X-Ray, as he calls his backstage lair. There is incense in the air and Ronnie Wood drifts in and out--it is, in other words, a perfect venue for such a discussion. "The whole business thing is predicated a lot on the tax laws," says Keith, Marlboro in one hand, vodka and juice in the other. "It's why we rehearse in Canada and not in the U.S. A lot of our astute moves have been basically keeping up with tax laws, where to go, where not to put it. Whether to sit on it or not. We left England because we'd be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out. No taxes at all. I don't want to screw anybody out of anything, least of all the governments that I work with. We put 30% in holding until we sort it out." No wonder Keith chooses to live not in London, or even New York City, but in Weston, Conn.

534 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:10:24am

re: #532 ralphieboy

So the bomb squad is afraid of kittens? I thought they had nerves of steel...

What a bunch of p***ies!
//

535 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:11:06am

re: #531 RogueOne


Ireland exempts artists' royalties from taxation, which makes them very attractive for their musicians.

But according to the BBC, that could be coming to an end as Ireland is really suffering from the banking collapse.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

536 Buck  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:11:16am

re: #529 Obdicut

Um, yen?

Those are Japanese.

The Japanese are in a hell of a recession, and have been for awhile.

Did you mean yuan?

The joke was the joke 10 years ago.... That isn't the point. But thank you for find that nit to pick.

537 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:11:50am

re: #516 HoosierHoops

It depends on the kind of tax credit you're talking about. Some states have manufacturing tax credits - if you invest in R&D or other items, then you get a credit based on the value expended.

Then there are enterprise zone credits - if you site a business in location covered by a zone, you get a credit. Operation of these programs varies across the country. Some require new jobs to be created in the zone and not merely shifting from some other location. Others aren't nearly as strict.

Then, there are actual jobs-related tax credits. These differ across the country as well, but they are generally to encourage businesses to increase employment by reducing the initial costs to hire. Many include provisions to require employment for a set period of time and disfavor churning to accept the credit.

There are variants on those credits as well - combining different aspects together. Some states do a better job policing the credits than others. Some credits do encourage businesses to carry on operations more than others - and some are more ripe for abuse.

538 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:14:25am

re: #531 RogueOne

Keith Richards: “We left England because we’d be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out.”
[Link: www.you.com.au...]

You have to go back to the Stone's age.

The top rate of tax in the uk is only just going up to 50%.
Thats 50cents on the dollar.

It's been around 40% for the best part of the last decade.

539 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:18:04am

Snoop says "vote!"

540 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:18:15am

re: #537 lawhawk

It depends on the kind of tax credit you're talking about. Some states have manufacturing tax credits - if you invest in R&D or other items, then you get a credit based on the value expended.

Then there are enterprise zone credits - if you site a business in location covered by a zone, you get a credit. Operation of these programs varies across the country. Some require new jobs to be created in the zone and not merely shifting from some other location. Others aren't nearly as strict.

Then, there are actual jobs-related tax credits. These differ across the country as well, but they are generally to encourage businesses to increase employment by reducing the initial costs to hire. Many include provisions to require employment for a set period of time and disfavor churning to accept the credit.

There are variants on those credits as well - combining different aspects together. Some states do a better job policing the credits than others. Some credits do encourage businesses to carry on operations more than others - and some are more ripe for abuse.

The Angel on my left shoulder just asked why I'd post anything about economics...I don't know anything about it...Probably why I'm off work today with a fuzzy head and upset tummy...The Angel on my right shoulder is laughing at me..I haven't even balanced a checkbook in my life..LOL
Hope today finds you well today Lawhawk I'm out of my league on this subject

541 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:18:21am

re: #537 lawhawk

It depends on the kind of tax credit you're talking about. Some states have manufacturing tax credits - if you invest in R&D or other items, then you get a credit based on the value expended.

Then there are enterprise zone credits - if you site a business in location covered by a zone, you get a credit. Operation of these programs varies across the country. Some require new jobs to be created in the zone and not merely shifting from some other location. Others aren't nearly as strict.

Then, there are actual jobs-related tax credits. These differ across the country as well, but they are generally to encourage businesses to increase employment by reducing the initial costs to hire. Many include provisions to require employment for a set period of time and disfavor churning to accept the credit.

There are variants on those credits as well - combining different aspects together. Some states do a better job policing the credits than others. Some credits do encourage businesses to carry on operations more than others - and some are more ripe for abuse.

Depends on the facts on the ground - if you are offered a couple of thousand dollars to hire someone when you have no demand for your product - then the $18.000 salary you have to find outweighs the credit.

542 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:19:02am

re: #538 wozzablog

You have to go back to the Stone's age.

The top rate of tax in the uk is only just going up to 50%.
Thats 50cents on the dollar.

It's been around 40% for the best part of the last decade.


I think you mean 50 pence on the pound.
//

543 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:20:12am

re: #542 rwdflynavy

I think you mean 50 pence on the pound.
//

Touche.

544 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:20:12am

re: #542 rwdflynavy

I think you mean 50 pence on the pound.
//

Or two crowns and sixpence on the guinea...

545 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:21:08am

re: #544 ralphieboy

Or two crowns and sixpence on the guinea...


Or 2,000,000,000 Turkish Lira.

546 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:00am

re: #544 ralphieboy

Or two crowns and sixpence on the guinea...

How many shillings in a quid?
/Damn metric system is confusing

547 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:30am

re: #546 Killgore Trout

How many shillings in a quid?
/Damn metric system is confusing

You just double it and add 30.

548 Buck  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:42am

re: #538 wozzablog

You have to go back to the Stone's age.

The top rate of tax in the uk is only just going up to 50%.
Thats 50cents on the dollar.

It's been around 40% for the best part of the last decade.

It probably only felt like 98%

10% to Manager
10% to Lawyer
10% to Business Manager
20% to Alimony and various child support.
8% to property taxes on multiple houses and Apartments.
40% to taxes.

(I am just kidding around, so please don't correct the above numbers. I don't actually know the exact percentages, and feel I should be able to make a joke about it)

549 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:51am

re: #546 Killgore Trout

How many shillings in a quid?
/Damn metric system is confusing

Two birds in the bush.

550 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:23:21am

re: #548 Buck

It probably only felt like 98%

10% to Manager
10% to Lawyer
10% to Business Manager
20% to Alimony and various child support.
8% to property taxes on multiple houses and Apartments.
40% to taxes.

(I am just kidding around, so please don't correct the above numbers. I don't actually know the exact percentages, and feel I should be able to make a joke about it)

it was 90% to the divorce lawyers.

551 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:23:27am

re: #547 rwdflynavy

You just double it and add 30.

Does that work on Thursdays? what about leap year?

552 Sionainn  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:23:51am

re: #522 Killgore Trout

How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?

[Video]
Heh.

Damn, but those three are idiots.

553 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:24:13am

re: #549 Varek Raith

Two birds in the bush.

thats the Guinea Fowl - which was twelve stoats, which was a dozen groats.....

554 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:24:38am

re: #546 Killgore Trout


20 shillings to a quid, 21 shillings in a guinea but only 19 shillings in an Irish Pound

Five shillings is a crown.

555 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:24:38am

Mish's has a post up going over some of the same things as this mornings thread:

Tax Avoidance by Google and Apple, Corporate Cash, Job Creation During Schumpeterian Depressions
[Link: globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...]

556 Kragar  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:25:41am

Rush was getting in his daily hour of hate pre-election today. Real Orwellian crap. Remember folks, your neighbors hate America and are waging war against you, but they're the one who are filled with hate and fear.

557 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:26:53am

re: #555 RogueOne

Mish's has a post up going over some of the same things as this mornings thread:

Tax Avoidance by Google and Apple, Corporate Cash, Job Creation During Schumpeterian Depressions
[Link: globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...]

Reducing tax rates will not increase the tax income. It will simply give the companies a lower target to try and avoid.

558 Gus  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:27:08am

re: #522 Killgore Trout

How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?

[Video]
Heh.

They're just repeating most of the right-wingnuts talking points in their usual bimbo style. They seem kind of bitter. Steven Crowder is a dork.

559 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:27:42am

re: #557 wozzablog

Reducing tax rates will not increase the tax income. It will simply give the companies a lower target to try and avoid.

It's the tax rate's fault for me avoiding my taxes!!!

560 allegro  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:27:56am

re: #532 ralphieboy

So the bomb squad is afraid of kittens? I thought they had nerves of steel...

Heh, that's funny. Something that bomb squad specialist will not live down, I suspect.

A number of years ago I was doing a field surveynear Brownsville for an environmental impact study. I was looking specifically for jaguarundi signs, entirely focused on that task. I stepped on something that completely freaked me out momentarily. The landowner standing across the field said I suddenly shot about 3 feet into the air. What was it? Turned out to be a length of hose - one of those with the scaly kinda pattern. Up to that point I was fairly famous for my lack of fear of snakes. As I later argued, I still was unafraid of snakes (though highly respectful), but garden hoses are a whole 'nother thang.

To this day I am teased about that.

561 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:29:52am

Catch you all in a few hours.

Have a match to play off.

562 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:30:44am

re: #551 Killgore Trout

Does that work on Thursdays? what about leap year?

That's how Bob and Doug McKenzie taught me on the Great White North album. Metric, you just double it and add 30.

563 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:31:32am

Mish also has an interesting piece here:


Cash Cow: Who has the Cash, Who has the Debt, by Sector and Company

There are a lot of claims by mainstream media regarding cash on the sidelines and corporate cash levels.

Except for a handful of isolated companies, predominantly technology, claims are far-fetched. This interactive script showing the top 50 companies in the US by market cap is proof.
[Link: globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...]

564 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:32:56am

re: #558 Gus 802

They seem kind of bitter.


I got the same impression.

565 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:34:44am

Okay I'm back to micro (sub micro?) economics.

My job.

BBL!

566 Gus  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:35:51am

re: #564 Killgore Trout

I got the same impression.

They're mostly pissed off that more people showed up to this rally (215,000 vs. 87,000) than Beck's. Steven Crowder always has a bug up his about something. That "Fox & Friends" always seems like something out of a bad 80s movie -- they're like cartoon characters.

567 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:36:17am

re: #565 Rightwingconspirator

Okay I'm back to micro (sub micro?) economics.

My job.

BBL!

Make the price of gold crash.
You know, just for giggles.
///

568 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:37:23am

re: #562 rwdflynavy

That's how Bob and Doug McKenzie taught me on the Great White North album. Metric, you just double it and add 30.


That's farenheit/celsius conversion!!!

569 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:37:33am

re: #566 Gus 802

They're mostly pissed off that more people showed up to this rally (215,000 vs. 87,000) than Beck's. Steven Crowder always has a bug up his about something. That "Fox & Friends" always seems like something out of a bad 80s movie -- they're like cartoon characters.

Watching Fox and Friends makes me want to pummel some cute, innocent creature.
/

570 RogueOne  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:39:10am

The family that works together, stays together....

Mother/Daughter prostitution team busted
[Link: www.wlbt.com...]


Lt. Scott said, "Now, this case was made based on a complaint made by one of the local churches."

Unlike, the 1218 Langley Street operation where our undercover camera caught a pregnant prostitute preparing for sex with a "john", the Valley Street sting didn't get that far. Money exchanged hands and the case was made. But there is a bizarre twist.

Lt. Scott said, "This is actually a mother/daughter team."

571 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:39:11am

re: #568 ralphieboy

That's farenheit/celsius conversion!!!

Bob and Doug used it for all metric conversions. Hilariousness ensued.

572 allegro  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:39:50am

re: #566 Gus 802

They're mostly pissed off that more people showed up to this rally (215,000 vs. 87,000) than Beck's. Steven Crowder always has a bug up his about something. That "Fox & Friends" always seems like something out of a bad 80s movie -- they're like cartoon characters.

Considering the policies the teatards push, I imagine they're mostly pissed at seeing all those people having fun. I swear, that's the only reason I can think of for those folks to get so exercised over what other people are doing that doesn't affect them at all.

573 Gus  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:40:09am

re: #569 Varek Raith

Watching Fox and Friends makes me want to pummel some cute, innocent creature.
/

Makes me wish I was on a tropical island with no computer and no TV and far away from the USA.

574 AK-47%  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:41:03am

Wow, "double it and add thirty" gives you roughly the difference betwen the Beck rally and Stweard/Colbert!!!

575 Gus  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:42:43am

re: #572 allegro

Considering the policies the teatards push, I imagine they're mostly pissed at seeing all those people having fun. I swear, that's the only reason I can think of for those folks to get so exercised over what other people are doing that doesn't affect them at all.

Yeah, plus a lot people are still stuck in the 50s. You know how they used to call folks "square"? Well, Fox News still markets itself to the same squares. I'm sure there were plenty of things at the rally that freaked them out.

576 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:43:59am

re: #575 Gus 802

Yeah, plus a lot people are still stuck in the 50s. You know how they used to call folks "square"? Well, Fox News still markets itself to the same squares. I'm sure there were plenty of things at the rally that freaked them out.

The 1950's.
The Golden Age of America!
/

577 blueraven  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:45:28am

re: #573 Gus 802

Makes me wish I was on a tropical island with no computer and no TV and far away from the USA.

There is such a disconnect between the clip they chose to show of Jon Stewart's final speech and their attitude. His words were totally non partisan and defending the tea party as well as the progressives against false labels. WTF?

Then idiot Carlson makes the comment that Stewart is all dressed up in his suit (to look like a journalist). Huh? He wears a suit every night on his show.

Tres idiotas.

578 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:45:46am

re: #536 Buck

The joke was the joke 10 years ago... That isn't the point. But thank you for find that nit to pick.

Ten years ago, the Japanese were also in a recession. Their economy has been troubled since the 1990s. They've been in deflation for basically that entire time.

Is the point of the joke that the offshoring of jobs that Bush's administration so favored eventually made the domestic US market weak enough that China took us over?

579 allegro  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:47:40am

re: #575 Gus 802

Yeah, plus a lot people are still stuck in the 50s. You know how they used to call folks "square"? Well, Fox News still markets itself to the same squares. I'm sure there were plenty of things at the rally that freaked them out.

I suspect there's something to that. Having been born in 1953 with my formative teenage years in Chicago in the 60s, there truly was terror in the hearts of many with the counter-culture movement. Some still haven't gotten over it and much of what we're seeing today is still the backlash.

580 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 11:13:22am

re: #556 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush was getting in his daily hour of hate pre-election today. Real Orwellian crap. Remember folks, your neighbors hate America and are waging war against you, but they're the one who are filled with hate and fear.

Which works out correctly if everyone listens to Rush...

And isn't it one of the oldest tricks to distract the pack of wolves after you to throw a chunk of meat into them so that they fall into fighting among themselves while you escape with the loot?

/

581 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 1, 2010 2:19:56pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

Sarah was fighting out of her weight class with Katie Couric. Do we really want to see what happens if she takes on Hillary?

Also, why would we not run the present incumbent in 2012?

Because he's a black muslim socialist, duh!


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