2 | bratwurst Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:37:03pm |
Wow, those Eeries were going for nearly 3x the cover price of the usually featured Marvel titles from the era...hope they paid for themselves in terror sweat.
4 | Ojoe Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:40:02pm |
1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?
2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.
4. Good night all.
5 | bratwurst Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:41:05pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.4. Good night all.
What's bedtime without a little misogyny?
6 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:41:26pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?
2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.
4. Good night all.
Why the f*** do you care about "refudiation day" when you claim to hate both parties equally and only want the whigs to win?
It'd be like a social democrat in West Germany cheering about how they've got communist overlords now instead of facsist ones
7 | Varek Raith Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:41:27pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?
2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.
4. Good night all.
1. I dunno.
2. Refudiantion of sanity, indeed.
3. Hillary would win.
4. Night, Ojoe!
:)
8 | Ojoe Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:44:28pm |
re: #6 jamesfirecat
I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.
Good night.
9 | Charles Johnson Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:45:32pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?
2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.
4. Good night all.
I'm amazed and appalled that you seem to think that electing this batch of weirdos, science-deniers, and religious fanatics is a good thing.
Sad.
10 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:45:33pm |
re: #8 Ojoe
I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.
Good night.
But all that its proving is that the American people will midnlessly continue to vote for one of the two major parties even when it makes their situation worse.
Its sending a message that the whigs have no chacne because people don't care about the issues only brand labels....
13 | Varek Raith Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:48:33pm |
14 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:48:34pm |
Good Lord, I'm the reasonable righty.
God help us all.
/
15 | bratwurst Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:49:02pm |
re: #12 Ojoe
I did not say I thought it was good.
Might as well mix in some intellectual dishonesty with your misogyny, call it a cocktail.
16 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:49:04pm |
re: #12 Ojoe
I did not say I thought it was good.
"I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns."
So you don't see something wrong with liking something that isn't good for America?
I guess this is the junk food of elections for you then....
17 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:50:35pm |
2004 - Americans vote Republican President
2006 - Americans vote for Democrats in the House and Senate
2008 - Americans vote for Democrat President
2010 - Americans vote for Republicans in the House and Senate*
I see a pattern here. I think it's kind of funny because Americans went from being wide eyed and bushy tailed for Obama in 2008 and are now wide eyed and bushy tailed for Republicans 2010. Each party always taking their turn in being the proverbial "cavalry to the rescue." This pattern has been repeated for 100s of years and each party really affects little "change" that benefits the working people of this country. It will always remain business as usual and the priority still remain the wealthy elites and multi-national corporations.
18 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:51:32pm |
re: #10 jamesfirecat
But all that its proving is that the American people will midnlessly continue to vote for one of the two major parties even when it makes their situation worse.
Its sending a message that the whigs have no chacne because people don't care about the issues only brand labels...
There is some truth to that- more than some, actually.
19 | wee fury Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:51:59pm |
I only had 9 kids come trick or treating. I have tons of candy left -- I am cyberly offering you all some. Enjoy!
And, I voted by absentee ballot. It had better count . . . but, you never know in MN.
20 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:52:33pm |
re: #19 wee fury
I only had 9 kids come trick or treating. I have tons of candy left -- I am cyberly offering you all some. Enjoy!
And, I voted by absentee ballot. It had better count . . . but, you never know in MN.
You are now out of snickers.
/
21 | Big Steve Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:53:30pm |
It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago. Then when Obama did win, being the reasonable blog commenters that we are, we all wished him well. I do believe that we ought to give the winners on Tuesday the same chance and wish them well.
22 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:56:58pm |
re: #17 Gus 802
2004 - Americans vote Republican President
2006 - Americans vote for Democrats in the House and Senate
2008 - Americans vote for Democrat President
2010 - Americans vote for Republicans in the House and Senate*I see a pattern here. I think it's kind of funny because Americans went from being wide eyed and bushy tailed for Obama in 2008 and are now wide eyed and bushy tailed for Republicans 2010. Each party always taking their turn in being the proverbial "cavalry to the rescue." This pattern has been repeated for 100s of years and each party really affects little "change" that benefits the working people of this country. It will always remain business as usual and the priority still remain the wealthy elites and multi-national corporations.
Hence why its a good thing we passed that amendment which says nobody can serve more than two terms, as we'll never again have to go through the hell hole that was the Depression ending Nazi ass kicking WW2 winning hell hole of five terms worth of FDR.....
23 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:15pm |
re: #21 Big Steve
It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago. Then when Obama did win, being the reasonable blog commenters that we are, we all wished him well. I do believe that we ought to give the winners on Tuesday the same chance and wish them well.
I'll give them a chance and wish that they manage to become reasonable... but I don't expect it to happen.
However I believe that most people who saw Obama as a radical (I openly admit to painting with a broad brush as I wasn't here (wasn't on LGF) for the Obama elections) were more buying into a preconcieved narrative being sold to them, were as with the tea party people its straight from the horses mouth.
(The most radical thing Obama said that I can remeber is that was he wanted to "Spread the wealth around" which is sort of what taxes are for anyway all things considered...)
24 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:24pm |
re: #8 Ojoe
Well that's a destructive way of seeing things, saying that you like to watch people lose. Would you rather see things get done instead.
25 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:31pm |
re: #4 Ojoe
1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?
2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.
4. Good night all.
Sarah was fighting out of her weight class with Katie Couric. Do we really want to see what happens if she takes on Hillary?
Also, why would we not run the present incumbent in 2012?
26 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 7:59:45pm |
re: #18 researchok
There is some truth to that- more than some, actually.
And I'm as depressed by it as you are...
27 | KronoGhazi Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:00:18pm |
re: #21 Big Steve
It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago.
I don't have quite the level of worry I did two years ago if Obama won. But you're right.
28 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:00:23pm |
re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist
Sarah was fighting out of her weight class with Katie Couric. Do we really want to see what happens if she takes on Hillary?
Also, why would we not run the present incumbent in 2012?
Because the Democrats are all going to jump ship on Obama because he's been such a bad president that we don't think he has a chance winning a second term!
Or so we're told at least....
29 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:01:21pm |
re: #28 jamesfirecat
Because the Democrats are all going to jump ship on Obama because he's been such a bad president that we don't think he has a chance winning a second term!
Or so we're told at least...
When's the last time that happened?
30 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:02:18pm |
I for one am happy to say boogata boogata! But then again I did grow up memorizing Poe.
31 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:02:24pm |
re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist
When's the last time that happened?
You mean the incumbent not being elected by his party to a second term...
Umm.... er... uh... ah... give me a moment... I'm sure I can think of something...... was Gerald Ford nominated to run for a second term after he inherited it from Nixon and Agnew?
32 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:02:56pm |
re: #21 Big Steve
It is interesting how many of us on this site (myself included) are just about as apocalyptic about the likely winners of this election as we were about Obama winning two years ago. Then when Obama did win, being the reasonable blog commenters that we are, we all wished him well. I do believe that we ought to give the winners on Tuesday the same chance and wish them well.
After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.
This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.
33 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:04:34pm |
re: #32 Gus 802
After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.
This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.
Well see... some of those people seemed to be running just as much agianst the GOP as against the democrats after all...
34 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:04:48pm |
re: #32 Gus 802
After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.
This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.
Thank you for that depressing dose of reality so close to bedtime.
//
35 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:05:10pm |
re: #31 jamesfirecat
You mean the incumbent not being elected by his party to a second term...
Umm... er... uh... ah... give me a moment... I'm sure I can think of something... was Gerald Ford nominated to run for a second term after he inherited it from Nixon and Agnew?
Yes. He defeated Reagan for the nomination, then lost to Carter.
36 | Big Steve Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:05:34pm |
Saw both President Bush's sitting behind the backstop at the World Series tonight. Barbara Bush was keeping a box score. She and Bush 1 often take in Astro's games and you can see her keeping a box score there as well. I got to tell you that there are lots of pretty women at baseball games.....girls with their dates, player's wives, single moms who bring their kids.......but oh to find a lady that keeps a box score.....Barbara Bush you are something!
37 | reine.de.tout Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:06:28pm |
38 | Big Steve Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:06:32pm |
re: #32 Gus 802
True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.
39 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:06:37pm |
Ah. I thought this was gonna be a Halloween thread and it's just politics again. Oh wait, there's a difference?
40 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:07:09pm |
re: #38 Big Steve
True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.
Democrats simply don't have that kind of party discipline. That may be good or bad, but it's a real difference between the way the two parties operate.
41 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:08:17pm |
re: #33 jamesfirecat
Well see... some of those people seemed to be running just as much agianst the GOP as against the democrats after all...
But they're still going to be freshman. Each of them will have to overcome a rather massive learning curve of the ins and outs of congressional procedures. They won't know what to do and their only option will be to subject themselves to the tutelage of senior GOP members. Neither will they be handed committee assignments just for being there. Those things take time.
42 | Big Steve Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:09:42pm |
re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know....the Dems had to pretty much lock arms to get healthcare passed. They seemed pretty organized to me. As a moderate, I have noticed that each side thinks the other is a monolithic, Borg hive, mindlessly following orders. Neither side really is that good!
43 | prairiefire Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:10:12pm |
re: #39 Irenicum
Ah. I thought this was gonna be a Halloween thread and it's just politics again. Oh wait, there's a difference?
For you, "Annabelle Lee":[Link: www.romantic-lyrics.com...]
45 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:11:05pm |
re: #38 Big Steve
True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.
It's like SFZ said. The Democrats don't have that type of party discipline save Snowe and Collins. You'll find more Democrats voting against party lines in congress than Republicans. Republicans will typically vote as a block.
46 | Obdicut Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:11:13pm |
re: #38 Big Steve
True but no different than the Democrats who toe the party line as well.
Except they don't, so, actually, it's rather completely different.
47 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:11:35pm |
re: #42 Big Steve
I don't know...the Dems had to pretty much lock arms to get healthcare passed. They seemed pretty organized to me. As a moderate, I have noticed that each side thinks the other is a monolithic, Borg hive, mindlessly following orders. Neither side really is that good!
Did you miss the part where it took us a year to get oragnized, and how we had people waffling back and forth to for it to against it and back again? A year during which the Republican position off 40/41 people saying and I quote "No" from start to finish...
Yeah those two are showing the exactly same level of party discipline....
48 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:12:24pm |
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
49 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:12:38pm |
re: #32 Gus 802
After Tuesday they will disappear into the woodwork of DC politics. As freshmen they will be prepped and tutored by established GOP politicians. Over a period of time they will learn to do things the GOP way and to answer to the GOP which will remain their pipeline for election financing.
This of course means voting as a large party block wherein all GOP house members vote either yes or no save of course (on occasion) Snowe, Collins, and Ron Paul. The public perception of the GOP will based largely on the existing GOP establishment including Boehner, DeMint, McConnell, etc.
OTher than to note that Snowe and Collins are in the Senate, that's a very accurate summation. It also works that way with Democrats. Whichever party you vote for, don't imagine that the 'young outsider' you just voted for is going to make too many waves. They'll talk like that till they get to DC, whereupon it will promptly be made clear to them that if they want to get things done they are expected to support the party line and not vote against that line without permission.
50 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:13:06pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
Good point
51 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:13:10pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
Even the ones from Blue states like Mr. 41 who owns a truck...
52 | Obdicut Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:13:46pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
... anymore. Since it did actually start out as a Republican idea. Though they all pretend real, real hard it didn't.
53 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:14:14pm |
I don't know if this will play here, but here's a link to the Star Trek FB page of John de Lancie reading The Raven. Fabulous!
54 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:14:21pm |
re: #52 Obdicut
... anymore. Since it did actually start out as a Republican idea. Though they all pretend real, real hard it didn't.
So did the federally mandated healthcare which was based in part of what Mitt Romney set up as Govenor, didn't it?
55 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:14:36pm |
re: #52 Obdicut
... anymore. Since it did actually start out as a Republican idea. Though they all pretend real, real hard it didn't.
Didn't John McCain support cap and trade at one point?
56 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:17pm |
re: #41 Gus 802
But they're still going to be freshman. Each of them will have to overcome a rather massive learning curve of the ins and outs of congressional procedures. They won't know what to do and their only option will be to subject themselves to the tutelage of senior GOP members. Neither will they be handed committee assignments just for being there. Those things take time.
True. Congress is run on a seniority system. The "old guard" is always in charge. This is also why committees are so often headed by very partisan congresspeople: Those from swing districts tend to be voted out before they can accumulate the needed seniority.
57 | Obdicut Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:42pm |
re: #55 Gus 802
Didn't John McCain support cap and trade at one point?
He did more than support it. He introduced a bill for it.
[Link: www.rff.org...]
But that's all forgotten by the GOP now, and they get really angry if you mention it.
59 | Big Steve Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:55pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
Did you miss the part where it took us a year to get oragnized, and how we had people waffling back and forth to for it to against it and back again? A year during which the Republican position off 40/41 people saying and I quote "No" from start to finish...
Yeah those two are showing the exactly same level of party discipline...
Final Senate Vote for Healthcare:
Democrats 54 = Yes, 2 = No
Republicans, 3 = Yes, 40 = No
Regardless of the time, it was a tremendous effort of party unity on both sides.
60 | Charles Johnson Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:16:59pm |
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
61 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:17:29pm |
Here you go. Healthcare reform vote from March.
Voting yes were 219 Democrats and 0 Republicans.
Voting no were 34 Democrats and 178 Republicans.
Which means zero Republicans voted against the party. But you can see that 34 Democrats voted across party line.
63 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:18:04pm |
re: #59 Big Steve
Final Senate Vote for Healthcare:
Democrats 54 = Yes, 2 = No
Republicans, 3 = Yes, 40 = NoRegardless of the time, it was a tremendous effort of party unity on both sides.
That's not the the "vote that matters" though.
That can't be the cloture vote because the Democrats couldn't have passed it with only 57 votes.
Show me the cloture vote numbers...
64 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:19:05pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
Mark Kirk voted for it as a congressman, but has since announced he will vote against it if elected to the Senate. In Illinois the GOP needs a strong majority in the coal mining counties to counteract the Democrats urban strength. So no statewide Republican candidate can support cap and trade in this state and win.
65 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:19:56pm |
re: #64 Dark_Falcon
Mark Kirk voted for it as a congressman, but has since announced he will vote against it if elected to the Senate. In Illinois the GOP needs a strong majority in the coal mining counties to counteract the Democrats urban strength. So no statewide Republican candidate can support cap and trade in this state and win.
Hey really should stay a congressman where he can vote what he actually thinks then.
But we've already had this argument back and forth so lets not have it again....
66 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:20:15pm |
re: #61 Gus 802
Here you go. Healthcare reform vote from March.
Voting yes were 219 Democrats and 0 Republicans.
Voting no were 34 Democrats and 178 Republicans.Which means zero Republicans voted against the party. But you can see that 34 Democrats voted across party line.
You don't want to see those numbers now.
/
67 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:22:03pm |
re: #60 Charles
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
Pathetic, aren't they?
68 | Vicious Babushka Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:23:58pm |
re: #60 Charles
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
Can't you take ownership of that page?
70 | reine.de.tout Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:27:57pm |
re: #60 Charles
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
They sure are, aren't they?
May I quote a piece of it? (I've bolded one sentence).
Deliberate reediting of posts
Johnson's opponents have claimed that many of his claimed justifications for removing certain people, the claim that they made "abusive" or racist posts, were the result of Johnson re-editing the post[42] after the fact to justify his actions.He has also been consistently going back and removing old posts [43] from his site since the change in blog focus from right-wing to left-wing.
While this is difficult to verify, Johnson has many times engaged in provocation by re-editing posts behind the scenes, such as a recent thread where he removes all the vowels from someone he has just blocked [44]. Johnson's proven and demonstrated quick editing capabilities make any claim by him that someone made a certain post, and that the post is unedited by Johnson, impossible to trust or verify.
This whole thing is just crap.
And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.
"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")
"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..." -
Charles - you remove vowels from people?
That's some kind of good trick . . .
71 | Vicious Babushka Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:28:48pm |
re: #69 Irenicum
Unfortunately that's not how wiki works.
I don't know how wiki works. But surely it can't be a free-for-all? Don't editors have to be approved?
Or am I just hopeless clueless about wiki.
72 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:28:55pm |
re: #70 reine.de.tout
He needs his own fire department.
73 | Aceofwhat? Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:29:24pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
Thank God for that. It's a terrible idea.
74 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:30:47pm |
re: #71 Alouette
It's an open source network. They do have oversight, but on more controversial posts it can get pretty wild.
75 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:31:44pm |
re: #73 Aceofwhat?
Thank God for that. It's a terrible idea.
Quite Concur. I'm actually glad the GOP turned against it, but I wish they had not turn against all AGW science as well.
76 | Aceofwhat? Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:31:59pm |
re: #70 reine.de.tout
This whole thing is just crap.And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.
"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")
"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..." -
Charles - you remove vowels from people?
That's some kind of good trick . . .
He'd better not...if he takes my I out, there will be hell to pay//
77 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:32:09pm |
re: #70 reine.de.tout
No wonder I've been having vowel movement problems!
78 | Aceofwhat? Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:33:20pm |
re: #75 Dark_Falcon
Quite Concur. I'm actually glad the GOP turned against it, but I wish they had not turn against all AGW science as well.
Yep. Because then i say that a pigovian solution is far preferable and i lose 94.67% of Republicans...
79 | Digital Display Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:33:25pm |
Giants win tonight!
Giants win tonight! Be back after I call Pops and my Kids!
Giants win tonight! Yahoo!
80 | reine.de.tout Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:33:45pm |
re: #76 Aceofwhat?
He'd better not...if he takes my I out, there will be hell to pay//
Heheheh.
It's right there in the article.
Charles has the power to remove vowels from people
I honestly didn't know people had vowels.
re: #77 Irenicum
No wonder I've been having vowel movement problems!
Damn! Why couldn't I have thought of that? LOL.
81 | Charles Johnson Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:34:06pm |
re: #70 reine.de.tout
They sure are, aren't they?
May I quote a piece of it? (I've bolded one sentence).
This whole thing is just crap.
And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.
"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")
"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..." -
Charles - you remove vowels from people?
That's some kind of good trick . . .
Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
83 | Aceofwhat? Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:36:13pm |
re: #81 Charles
Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Well, it's a good thing that his username doesn't imply any sort of stalkerish agenda on this subject.
9_9
84 | reine.de.tout Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:36:36pm |
"MadKingChucky" needs to go back and finish grammar school.
85 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:37:32pm |
re: #17 Gus 802
86 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:39:25pm |
88 | Aceofwhat? Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:41:33pm |
re: #84 reine.de.tout
"MadKingChucky" needs to go back and finish grammar school.
89 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:41:48pm |
Charles the disemvoweler! Next on Fox!
Stalker/former lizard: Hep me, hep me! I'z been disemvoweled!
90 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:46:02pm |
re: #81 Charles
Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Embrace your aristocratic self.
How about referring to yourself as (Select one. Or two)
Prince of Pundits
The Regent of Reason
The Duke of Discourse
The Earl of Earnest
Royal Keeper of Stinky Beaumont (that comes with hazard pay)
More later. Maybe.
91 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:46:18pm |
re: #60 Charles
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, pathetic, and petty.
I don't like my ex-girlfriend one bit, the %$@!, but you know what I did? I got well the fuck away from her and have kept it that way.
92 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:47:26pm |
re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, pathetic, and petty.
I don't like my ex-girlfriend one bit, the �%$@!, but you know what I did? I got well the fuck away from her and have kept it that way.
She said that exact same thing on Jerry Springer!!
///
93 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:48:21pm |
re: #36 Big Steve
Saw both President Bush's sitting behind the backstop at the World Series tonight. Barbara Bush was keeping a box score. She and Bush 1 often take in Astro's games and you can see her keeping a box score there as well. I got to tell you that there are lots of pretty women at baseball games...girls with their dates, player's wives, single moms who bring their kids...but oh to find a lady that keeps a box score...Barbara Bush you are something!
I don't remember old Barbra getting political when she was in the White House. Nice to see her working one of those new film-less cameras.
94 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:48:47pm |
re: #81 Charles
Those edits were added by someone who registered with the name "MadKingChucky".
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Swamp of Fever (with apologies to "Moon River")
Swamp of Fever,
Full of trollish bile.
Where hatred is in style, to stay.
You bunch of fakers,
You Lame Threat makers,
Don't care where you're going,
Just please go away.Group of haters,
Off to hate the world,
they've got lots of in-sanit-y.
They're after the same dead end,
going 'round the bend,
losers without a friend.
Fever Swamp creepy.
95 | darthstar Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:48:58pm |
Texas was shut out at home only once at home all season, by the Oakland A's. Now the Giants have done it too.
96 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:49:02pm |
re: #92 researchok
I wouldn't put it past her. Seriously.
97 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:49:17pm |
98 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:49:45pm |
99 | Aceofwhat? Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:50:39pm |
re: #95 darthstar
Texas was shut out at home only once at home all season, by the Oakland A's. Now the Giants have done it too.
before i forget...i could have told you a month ago that Troy was the best QB on your roster.
100 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:50:45pm |
re: #98 researchok
That was her mom.
/
101 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:52:42pm |
102 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:54:20pm |
re: #93 joest73
I don't remember old Barbra getting political when she was in the White House. Nice to see her working one of those new film-less cameras.
On Iraq
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
103 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:55:47pm |
Sick of seeing TMNT costumes? Tough shit!
/although technically that's not a turtle costume.
104 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 8:56:24pm |
re: #102 ozbloke
On Iraq
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
If you go to your own link, you'll see she was talking about the speculation over possible deaths, not about actual deaths.
105 | Killgore Trout Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:01:55pm |
Spreading the wealth around
Image: 610x.jpg
106 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:02:13pm |
re: #102 ozbloke
On Iraq
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Snopes? Wow you really couldn't find anything....could you?
107 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:04pm |
re: #105 Killgore Trout
Spreading the wealth around
Image: 610x.jpg
Obama stands by without action as undead monsters and reanimated hunks of criminals menace the populace of our fair nation!
108 | researchok Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:20pm |
109 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:21pm |
re: #104 EmmmieG
If you go to your own link, you'll see she was talking about the speculation over possible deaths, not about actual deaths.
EmmmieG,
Are you telling me that after the war commenced, then Barbara would have that we all should all think about body bags and death?
Was that the main thrust of what she was saying?
110 | Interesting Times Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:03:23pm |
re: #104 EmmmieG
If you go to your own link, you'll see she was talking about the speculation over possible deaths, not about actual deaths.
It's still a stunningly tone-deaf and callous comment. But this one, about Hurricane Katrina refugees forced to flee to Houston, is even worse:
And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them.
Disgustingly condescending and insensitive.
111 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:04:16pm |
re: #107 jamesfirecat
Obama stands by without action as undead monsters and reanimated hunks of criminals menace the populace of our fair nation!
He was either
a. Giving out refined sugar garbage food to rot the teeth of our fair schoolchildren
or
b. A big old meany-meany who would give out healthy food on Halloween.
I'm voting for b in light of Michelle's anti-obesity campaign.
112 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:06:14pm |
re: #110 publicityStunted
It's still a stunningly tone-deaf and callous comment. But this one, about Hurricane Katrina refugees forced to flee to Houston, is even worse:
Disgustingly condescending and insensitive.
"were underprivileged"? I guess being forced to live in a sports stadium makes them overprivileged now....
113 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:07:20pm |
re: #105 Killgore Trout
Halloween is Socialism!
/or is it Communism?
/or Marxism?
/or Fascism
/or Maoism (no, that's reserved for Xmas trees)
114 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:07:47pm |
re: #110 publicityStunted
It's still a stunningly tone-deaf and callous comment. But this one, about Hurricane Katrina refugees forced to flee to Houston, is even worse:
Disgustingly condescending and insensitive.
Stinks of someone thinking they are better than the masses.
Just my view...
It would have been better not said...
Imagine if Michelle said it, there would be riots in the streets.
115 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:09:31pm |
re: #109 ozbloke
EmmmieG,
Are you telling me that after the war commenced, then Barbara would have that we all should all think about body bags and death?
Was that the main thrust of what she was saying?
She was commenting on the media coverage, not the war. Read the Snopes article.
116 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:10:23pm |
re: #71 Alouette
I don't know how wiki works. But surely it can't be a free-for-all? Don't editors have to be approved?
Or am I just hopeless clueless about wiki.
It is a free-for-all in many ways. You can just sign up to be an editor. One of my students had a seventh-grade teacher who taught her kids never to use Wiki by signing up as an editor and letting the class edit the octopus article to say they all have seven legs.
I once was helping a kid with a social studies project, and she opened Wiki's WWI page only to learn that "World War I was bloody and full of boogers".
117 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:10:30pm |
re: #81 Charles
I am constantly amazed at what you have to put up with.
And, that you have the heart & power to put up with it.
118 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:10:51pm |
re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist
It is a free-for-all in many ways. You can just sign up to be an editor. One of my students had a seventh-grade teacher who taught her kids never to use Wiki by signing up as an editor and letting the class edit the octopus article to say they all have seven legs.
I once was helping a kid with a social studies project, and she opened Wiki's WWI page only to learn that "World War I was bloody and full of boogers".
No its snot!
119 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:11:48pm |
re: #111 EmmmieG
You're not trying hard enough. You see, this is an example of the Obamas' hypocrisy and flip-flopping. First they wants to tell Americans what they can feed their kids by pretending to grow their own vegetables (yeah, right!), then they turn around and try to shove fattening treats down the throats of American children. They've got us coming and going, the pathological liars!
/bet me a wingnut blogger doesn't run with something like that
120 | Killgore Trout Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:14:41pm |
re: #119 Slumbering Behemoth
SIEU, ACORN and George Soros are manipulating the sugar industry!
121 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:15:50pm |
re: #120 Killgore Trout
And the ADA are the puppet masters behind the whole, evil conspiracy.
/BIG DENTISTRY IS RIPPING US OFF!!!
122 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:16:27pm |
re: #115 EmmmieG
She was commenting on the media coverage, not the war. Read the Snopes article.
I'm sorry, you can write it off like that, thats your right.
I am not contesting your point, but in war you are sending your sons and daughters to fight, it is a 'big f#@ken deal'.
Her concern was for the suffering of her son and her mind, nothing more.
124 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:16:33pm |
re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth
And the ADA are the puppet masters behind the whole, evil conspiracy.
/BIG DENTISTRY IS RIPPING US OFF!!!
I am the milk man, my milk is delicious.
125 | Idle Drifter Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:17:43pm |
A lighter video in the spirit of Halloween. Chances are I'll be called an anti-Christ for it. Happy Halloween for those still enjoying the festival! And today is All Saints Day with tomorrow All Souls Day.
126 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:18:13pm |
re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth
Well, they do support the subversion of our bodily fluids through fluoridation.
127 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:18:58pm |
128 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:19:02pm |
re: #114 ozbloke
Stinks of someone thinking they are better than the masses.
Just my view...
It would have been better not said...Imagine if Michelle said it, there would be riots in the streets.
Barbara Bush was born rich. It's not so much that she thinks she's better than them, but rather that she has no emotional knowledge of the lives of the poor. She does her best to relate, but the lives of the Katrina refugees were so far removed from her experience that she was clueless.
And its worth noting that those Katrina refugees who stayed in Houston mostly found themselves much better off than they had been in New Orleans. To a great degree this is because Houston is a city that actually takes crime prevention seriously.
129 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:19:03pm |
re: #126 freetoken
Well, they do support the subversion of our bodily fluids through fluoridation.
They even fluoridate ice cream mandrake, children's ice cream!
130 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:19:49pm |
re: #126 freetoken
See, man? Wheels within wheels, brother, wheels within wheels.
/
131 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:20:46pm |
YAH! Last of the Halloween Candy is gone!
132 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:21:25pm |
re: #131 Floral Giraffe
YAH! Last of the Halloween Candy is gone!
You don't win a prize for eating all of it, you know.
/
133 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:22:44pm |
re: #132 Slumbering Behemoth
You don't win a prize for eating all of it, you know.
/
You don't? Crap.
134 | KronoGhazi Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:22:46pm |
darn it if Maddow doesn't have her own type of newscutie hotness
135 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:23:04pm |
re: #134 BigPapa
darn it if Maddow doesn't have her own type of newscutie hotness
My father adores Rachel Maddow.
136 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:23:05pm |
re: #122 ozbloke
I'm sorry, you can write it off like that, thats your right.
I am not contesting your point, but in war you are sending your sons and daughters to fight, it is a 'big f#@ken deal'.
Her concern was for the suffering of her son and her mind, nothing more.
I'm not writing off anything. I'm paraphrasing the link you posted. She was talking about media coverage before the Iraq war, and why she didn't watch it.
138 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:24:35pm |
re: #128 Dark_Falcon
Barbara Bush was born rich. It's not so much that she thinks she's better than them, but rather that she has no emotional knowledge of the lives of the poor. She does her best to relate, but the lives of the Katrina refugees were so far removed from her experience that she was clueless.
.
Hi DF,
I accept that, well said.
Do you think that in all her years, if it was of ANY interest to her that she may have either had time of found time to do work paid or voluntary that could have given her a better understanding.
Also, if she did not do that, why not?
If she did do the voluntary work and is still clueless what does that say about her?
When I hear statements like these from people of influence, I am left jaw droppingly dumbfounded.
139 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:26:42pm |
re: #128 Dark_Falcon
Barbara Bush was born rich. It's not so much that she thinks she's better than them, but rather that she has no emotional knowledge of the lives of the poor. She does her best to relate, but the lives of the Katrina refugees were so far removed from her experience that she was clueless.
I was going to say something like this but you said it better. I don't think she's someone that doesn't care and thinks she's better in a malicious sort of way. That comment was striking and did make me go 'ugh' at the ignorance contained within it but I didn't get that she said it without the sincerest of intents. She was just out of her league and like many people of her station and lifestyle generally ignorant of what life is like in anything more then the most superficial sense. Some people translate this into sheer snobbery and meanness. Barbra Bush does not strike me as that type.
140 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:27:03pm |
141 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:27:18pm |
re: #132 Slumbering Behemoth
You don't win a prize for eating all of it, you know.
/
I do win a prize for not eating ANY of it, though?
WOOT!
Last kids to get candy, were told to empty the bowl!
GET THOSE EVIL CANDIES AWAY FROM ME!
(Kit Kat bars & Smarties! FG gives good candy!)
LOL!
142 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:28:41pm |
re: #128 Dark_Falcon
And its worth noting that those Katrina refugees who stayed in Houston mostly found themselves much better off than they had been in New Orleans. To a great degree this is because Houston is a city that actually takes crime prevention seriously.
2nd paragraph.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.
For people without money what is it that you think they value most.
I think its thinks like family, small possessions, photographs, places, memories.
The things that mattered to a lot of these folk was gone...
Forever.
Dark, you are a good hearted man, think about what I said.
These people lost family, photographs, places that they grew up. For what, what do you think that they gained?
Do you think if they could go back pre Katrina they wouldn't?
143 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:28:41pm |
re: #141 Floral Giraffe
I do win a prize for not eating ANY of it, though?
Fine, I'll give you a kiss. I'll even shave first.
144 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:29:43pm |
re: #138 ozbloke
Hi DF,
I accept that, well said.
Do you think that in all her years, if it was of ANY interest to her that she may have either had time of found time to do work paid or voluntary that could have given her a better understanding.Also, if she did not do that, why not?
If she did do the voluntary work and is still clueless what does that say about her?
When I hear statements like these from people of influence, I am left jaw droppingly dumbfounded.
"Mrs. Bush became involved in community volunteer work in Midland, an enthusiasm she continued throughout her life."
"Mrs. Bush began nationally promoting the cause of literacy while her husband was Vice President, a passion that continues today in her position as Honorary Chairman of the Barbara Bush Foundation for Family Literacy. Mrs. Bush’s civic-minded advocacy of volunteerism and community service and her role as a beloved wife and mother have earned her a special place in America’s heart."
145 | KronoGhazi Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:29:53pm |
re: #137 jaunte
She's got great brains.
She's obviously very sharp. I fell a little in love when she was interviewing Art Robinson, though it went a little too long.
146 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:30:20pm |
re: #138 ozbloke
Hi DF,
I accept that, well said.
Do you think that in all her years, if it was of ANY interest to her that she may have either had time of found time to do work paid or voluntary that could have given her a better understanding.Also, if she did not do that, why not?
If she did do the voluntary work and is still clueless what does that say about her?
When I hear statements like these from people of influence, I am left jaw droppingly dumbfounded.
Going and doing voluntary work on principle does not guarantee some sort of in depth insight into the lives of people no matter who you are.
147 | jaunte Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:30:42pm |
re: #137 jaunte
She's got great brains.
By the way, this isn't intended as some kind of put-down of Maddow's attractiveness, it's just the best part.
Good night all.
148 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:30:53pm |
re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth
See, man? Wheels within wheels, brother, wheels within wheels.
/
149 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:33:47pm |
re: #147 jaunte
Oy, same goes for my #140. It's just that her looks aren't the first thing that jump to my mind when I hear her name.
150 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:33:49pm |
re: #138 ozbloke
I think it's pretty hard for "some one of means" who deals with "folks of lesser means" to truly understand what their lives are like. It's just unfathomable. As an example, my Mom is now living at her home, with a 24/7 care giver. Nice lady, friendly, polite, fully engaged, good driver, can't make change. Yes, can not count money. AMAZING. Didn't know people like that existed.
151 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:34:03pm |
re: #142 ozbloke
2nd paragraph.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.
For people without money what is it that you think they value most.
I think its thinks like family, small possessions, photographs, places, memories.
The things that mattered to a lot of these folk was gone...
Forever.Dark, you are a good hearted man, think about what I said.
These people lost family, photographs, places that they grew up. For what, what do you think that they gained?Do you think if they could go back pre Katrina they wouldn't?
Many would, some would not. Some of them do mourn what they lost, but came to realize that Houston is a better place to raise a family. Better schools and lower crime made many people grateful for the change of venue. People who are without want a better future for their children. And sad to say, New Orleans is still having major trouble providing that future. That's why some refugees stayed in Houston.
152 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:35:07pm |
re: #60 Charles
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
That's what Wikipedia is good for.
153 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:35:38pm |
Well, this an interesting political commercial...
155 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:37:33pm |
re: #136 EmmmieG
I'm not writing off anything. I'm paraphrasing the link you posted. She was talking about media coverage before the Iraq war, and why she didn't watch it.
Yes, she is speaking of the media:
I watch none. He [former President Bush] sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don't take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we're talking about the news.
And he's not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that.
But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose?
Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant.
So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer.
But the bolded part was her concern.
156 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:37:42pm |
re: #146 Jadespring
Going and doing voluntary work on principle does not guarantee some sort of in depth insight into the lives of people no matter who you are.
True. The view presented to upper-class volunteers has normally been fairly sanitized, in the interests of not scaring them away. So someone like Barbara Bush may know that the poor have serious problems, but I doubt she understood them depths of those problems.
157 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:39:22pm |
re: #155 ozbloke
Yes, she is speaking of the media:
I watch none. He [former President Bush] sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don't take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we're talking about the news.
And he's not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that.
But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose?
Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant.
So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer.You bolded that. I looked and saw the "90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition." What I take from this is that she didn't feel like getting worked up about people guessing.
But the bolded part was her concern.
158 | Nervous Norvous Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:39:57pm |
159 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:40:34pm |
re: #157 EmmmieG
Oops. My reply was in the middle of your comment, not at the end. Sorry.
160 | Walter L. Newton Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:41:09pm |
re: #156 Dark_Falcon
True. The view presented to upper-class volunteers has normally been fairly sanitized, in the interests of not scaring them away. So someone like Barbara Bush may know that the poor have serious problems, but I doubt she understood them depths of those problems.
You mean like movie stars bailing water in New Orleans?
161 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:41:25pm |
This is hilarious.
Karma: -261
GapDudeThis user is blocked.
Registered since: Oct 31, 2010 at 10:56 am
No. of comments posted: 27
No. of Pages posted: 0
Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.
162 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:41:53pm |
re: #150 Floral Giraffe
I think it's pretty hard for "some one of means" who deals with "folks of lesser means" to truly understand what their lives are like. It's just unfathomable. As an example, my Mom is now living at her home, with a 24/7 care giver. Nice lady, friendly, polite, fully engaged, good driver, can't make change. Yes, can not count money. AMAZING. Didn't know people like that existed.
I met a girl in Uni who had never been to a grocery store. She said their cook always did the shopping. So she came with me after school. It was pretty hilarious. She was cool though and recognized it for what it was. I gave her a shopping lesson.
163 | Nervous Norvous Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:42:03pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
This is hilarious.
Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.
Some people have lofty goals and achieve them..:)
164 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:42:17pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
I missed it. It must have had heartburn over something?
166 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:43:45pm |
re: #146 Jadespring
Going and doing voluntary work on principle does not guarantee some sort of in depth insight into the lives of people no matter who you are.
Hi Jadespring,
I do hope your arm has recovered.
Apparently you are correct with Barbara.
Do you think that those who volunteer in different parts of the social scale, and different countries in the world would gain different experiences.
As the volunteers I work with come back changed forever.
167 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:43:58pm |
168 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:44:13pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
This is hilarious.
Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.
What thread did he show up on?
169 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:44:38pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
Well, ya can't say he didn't work for it.
170 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:44:48pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
This is hilarious.
Registered and blocked all in one day with a Karma of -261.
Almost 300 lower than me....oh no.....
171 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:45:02pm |
re: #167 freetoken
Didn't like the furniture, eh?
Oh he went off with some half cocked idea about rare earths mining, the Chinese, liberals, Democrats, environmentalists, etc.
172 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:45:05pm |
re: #165 Gus 802
Yeah, everything.
Well not everything his main beef was that we didn't care when the liberals fudged numbers such as how Obama promised us that the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8% and then he tried very very hard to convince us that envrionmentalists were putting the nation at risk by shutting down our last rare earth metal mine forcing us to buy our REs from China....
173 | Nervous Norvous Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:45:19pm |
re: #162 Jadespring
I met a girl in Uni who had never been to a grocery store. She said their cook always did the shopping. So she came with me after school. It was pretty hilarious. She was cool though and recognized it for what it was. I gave her a shopping lesson.
The all time best anthem for these people
174 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:46:07pm |
re: #160 Walter L. Newton
You mean like movie stars bailing water in New Orleans?
Some people either evade the filters set up or go out and see things for themselves. but most people will take the view presented to them and not really question it.
175 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:46:10pm |
I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?
176 | KronoGhazi Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:46:44pm |
re: #172 jamesfirecat
Well not everything his main beef was that we didn't care when the liberals fudged numbers such as how Obama promised us that the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8% and then he tried very very hard to convince us that envrionmentalists were putting the nation at risk by shutting down our last rare earth metal mine forcing us to buy our REs from China...he was a partisan asshole.
Sorry, just trying to help.
177 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:47:05pm |
re: #150 Floral Giraffe
I think it's pretty hard for "some one of means" who deals with "folks of lesser means" to truly understand what their lives are like. It's just unfathomable. As an example, my Mom is now living at her home, with a 24/7 care giver. Nice lady, friendly, polite, fully engaged, good driver, can't make change. Yes, can not count money. AMAZING. Didn't know people like that existed.
Hi FG,
Then maybe they should get out more, or perhaps think twice about speaking publicly.
G_d Bless the care givers...
178 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:47:10pm |
re: #175 Irenicum
CFP is a northern, slightly less apocalyptically religious version of WND.
179 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:47:36pm |
re: #176 BigPapa
Sorry, just trying to help.
Well I figured not everyone wants the cliff note's version...
180 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:48:17pm |
re: #162 Jadespring
Amazing, when you think about it.
How different our lives can be!
And, background isn't usually considered.
But, it's so important, that context link!
181 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:48:21pm |
re: #170 joest73
Almost 300 lower than me...oh no...
You're already down to -531? Anyway, this guy just signed up today and went off on a trolling rage right away.
182 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:48:47pm |
re: #178 freetoken
Yeah, seriously. Wow. Bad crazy up yonder.
183 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:11pm |
184 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:21pm |
re: #181 Gus 802
Sockpuppets trying to feel their oats on this, the most hated of all American traditions.
185 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:27pm |
re: #181 Gus 802
You're already down to -531? Anyway, this guy just signed up today and went off on a trolling rage right away.
Yep....walking the fine line......
186 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:50:50pm |
re: #175 Irenicum
I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?
I just poke fun at birthers now, based on this very simple principle:
Ridicule may be lawfully employed where reason has no hope of success.
187 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:51:35pm |
re: #185 joest73
Yep...walking the fine line...
If its any concelation from what I understand Space Jesus spent years with his karma in the red and he's still here....
188 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:51:37pm |
re: #175 Irenicum
I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?
Why the heck are you spending time on that?
Seriously..
189 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:13pm |
re: #159 EmmmieG
Oops. My reply was in the middle of your comment, not at the end. Sorry.
EmmmieG
Please don't be sorry, I think your #157 reads perfectly.
Freudian slip?
:)
190 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:19pm |
re: #186 eclectic infidel
I just poke fun at birthers now, based on this very simple principle:
Ridicule may be lawfully employed where reason has no hope of success.
Why do you think Jon Stewart is such a popular figure in contemporary politics?
191 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:24pm |
192 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:52:33pm |
re: #166 ozbloke
Hi Jadespring,
I do hope your arm has recovered.
Apparently you are correct with Barbara.
Do you think that those who volunteer in different parts of the social scale, and different countries in the world would gain different experiences.
As the volunteers I work with come back changed forever.
Thanks my arm is fine now. :)
And yes I do think different sort of volunteer work makes for different experiences. I should have qualified my comment with a 'depends of what it is'. I'm not knocking any sort of volunteer work at all but there is a difference between doing monthly stints serving at a soup kitchen and organizing at a food bank verses say going overseas and basically immersing yourself with whomever you are volunteering for in terms of what you are exposed too.
193 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:53:46pm |
re: #187 jamesfirecat
If its any concelation from what I understand Space Jesus spent years with his karma in the red and he's still here...
Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...
194 | jamesfirecat Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:54:18pm |
re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...
Just goes to show that Charles is tough but fair...
195 | KronoGhazi Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:55:27pm |
SpaceJesus is a clear example of the Golden LGF Rule: don't be an asshole. I saw some weird posts for many times, serious downdinging, but I never saw him be an asshole.
196 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:55:32pm |
re: #194 jamesfirecat
Just goes to show that Charles is tough but fair...
I guess it's a matter of playing it cool. Meaning that one can have seriously negative Karma but if they avoid the obvious like taunting our host, getting personal, overt trolling, etc.
197 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:57:05pm |
re: #162 Jadespring
I met a girl in Uni who had never been to a grocery store. She said their cook always did the shopping. So she came with me after school. It was pretty hilarious. She was cool though and recognized it for what it was. I gave her a shopping lesson.
I know some people like that too. I am the guy that clips the coupons every week and does the shopping for my wife. I'm an engineer....I can remember prices on everything. I also see, especially this time of the month, people that are using the access card load up shopping carts of food while I watch every penny.
My mother is a cashier at a wal-mart. She told me that it is amazing how many people are on government assistance now.
198 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:57:55pm |
re: #175 Irenicum
I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with a birther on FB who quotes from a Canadian crazy site called Canadian Free Press, which features (I "kid" you not) a 9th grader Texas Secessionist movement member who also is working with the Confederate Liberation Society. Where the hell do these things hatch?
Yes that is definitely a kooky site. Love the Obama leaves office countdown clock on the side bar. I'm thinking it's probably just a wee bit biased in one direction.
199 | Nervous Norvous Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:58:53pm |
Don't know if anyone has seen this, but this, to me, is incredibly racist
200 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:58:59pm |
Good night. Don't let the vampires bite.
201 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:59:19pm |
203 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 9:59:59pm |
re: #197 joest73
I know some people like that too. I am the guy that clips the coupons every week and does the shopping for my wife. I'm an engineer...I can remember prices on everything. I also see, especially this time of the month, people that are using the access card load up shopping carts of food while I watch every penny.
My mother is a cashier at a wal-mart. She told me that it is amazing how many people are on government assistance now.
Whats the access card?
204 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:00:51pm |
re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...
And now, he's a beloved pet, for many!
LOL!
He does present his views in a polite manner, and is open for discussion.
Never been trollish, that I have seen.
205 | ozbloke Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:01:32pm |
re: #192 Jadespring
Thanks my arm is fine now. :)
And yes I do think different sort of volunteer work makes for different experiences. I should have qualified my comment with a 'depends of what it is'. I'm not knocking any sort of volunteer work at all but there is a difference between doing monthly stints serving at a soup kitchen and organizing at a food bank verses say going overseas and basically immersing yourself with whomever you are volunteering for in terms of what you are exposed too.
Jadespring,
My heritage is British Indian, my family left India when slavery was abolished, my father had 15 servants in his home growing up.
I can not stand their mentality, I am the black sheep...
Barbara comments come across like English royalty, I'm sorry if I offend but it rubs me.
206 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:02:40pm |
re: #183 Floral Giraffe
Peed on the carpet.
Another very lame troll!
But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :D
207 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:02:40pm |
re: #203 Jadespring
Whats the access card?
Sorry....here in PA it is the EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer), or food stamp card.
208 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:02:41pm |
re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist
You are far less aggravating. Trust me.
EVERYONE is, far less aggravating than you are.
You are a joy, IMHO.
209 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:03:17pm |
re: #199 PT Barnum
I don't know about it being racist, doesn't seem like it to me, but it certainly is fear mongering. Think "Cold War with the Soviets". It's a revival of that theme, and a lame one at that.
210 | Irenicum Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:04:29pm |
re: #188 Floral Giraffe
I didn't realize at first that what he referenced was a birther/nutter site. I knew he was quite conservative, just didn't know he went for the crazy stuff.
211 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:04:52pm |
212 | Nervous Norvous Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:05:34pm |
re: #209 Slumbering Behemoth
I don't know about it being racist, doesn't seem like it to me, but it certainly is fear mongering. Think "Cold War with the Soviets". It's a revival of that theme, and a lame one at that.
My wife had the exact same reaction that I did. Swarthy orientals gloating over our misfortune. Would have been right at home in the darkest paranoia of WWII if you substituted the Japanese.
213 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:05:45pm |
re: #205 ozbloke
Jadespring,
My heritage is British Indian, my family left India when slavery was abolished, my father had 15 servants in his home growing up.
I can not stand their mentality, I am the black sheep...
Barbara comments come across like English royalty, I'm sorry if I offend but it rubs me.
Hey no problem. I get it. I'm not offended at all.
216 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:07:11pm |
re: #199 PT Barnum
Don't know if anyone has seen this, but this, to me, is incredibly racist
[Video]
I didn't see it as racist but maybe it's there. It's the usual Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theory. The Chinese hold 20 percent of foreign holders of our debt. Equal to the Japanese. We all remember the "Japan is going to take over" fear mongering from the 80s. Now they both hold the same amount of debt.
This is the top 4 from the US Treasury:
China, Mainland 868.4
Japan 836.6
United Kingdom 448.4
Oil Exporters 226.6
217 | Jadespring Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:08:53pm |
re: #207 joest73
Sorry...here in PA it is the EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer), or food stamp card.
Ah okay. I figured it was something like that but thought I should check.
218 | Gus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:10:57pm |
I need to watch some Outsourced and Hitchcock on Hulu.
Good night folks.
219 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:11:09pm |
re: #216 Gus 802
Which means the American average household owes China about $8k.
Maybe all those ultra-cheap toys at Walmart aren't worth it after all?
220 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:15:30pm |
re: #8 Ojoe
I like to see each major party take a drubbing. I don't care if they take turns.
Good night.
It's the only way the Modern Whigs will get any traction.
Problem is they've got the Greens and Libertarians (and Tea Party?) to contend with as potential third parties.
221 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:20:44pm |
222 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:21:19pm |
re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth
She is a HUGE good contributor to LGF.
Never annoying.
You contribute too.
Nicely.
223 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:22:20pm |
Can anyone explain to me how the gop is gonna balance the budget?
If tax hikes, military cuts, entitlement cuts are all off the table, how does the revenue shortfall get corrected?
224 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:23:28pm |
re: #222 Floral Giraffe
It's the way you worded that first line, friend, that had me laughing. Here, allow me to remove just one comma from that line:
EVERYONE is far less aggravating than you are.
That's what made me giggle.
225 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:23:55pm |
Had a brief discussion here with someone a few weeks ago about Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM. Art Bell is on tonight for "Ghost to Ghost AM"
226 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:24:49pm |
re: #183 Floral Giraffe
Peed on the carpet.
Another very lame troll!
But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :Dre: #223 palomino
Entitlement cuts could be on the table, in time. But setting them up and phasing them in will take a long time. Major cuts to the defense budget are indeed off the table, for good reason.
227 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:25:39pm |
re: #224 Slumbering Behemoth
Did you really giggle?
As in "tee hee"?
Happy to have made you giggle!
228 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:26:30pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :Dre: #223 palomino
Entitlement cuts could be on the table, in time. But setting them up and phasing them in will take a long time. Major cuts to the defense budget are indeed off the table, for good reason.
I no longer work for a defense contractor...but there is fat to cut in the defense budget.
229 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:31:32pm |
re: #228 joest73
I no longer work for a defense contractor...but there is fat to cut in the defense budget.
In terms of fraud and waste, yes. But that very hard to stamp out, given the strength major contractors have with Congress.Real reform would require rooting out fraud while not demonizing contractors, and would require a both parties to work together. These days the Dems and Repubs would rather shout "ELEVENTY!!1" at each other.
230 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:33:19pm |
re: #212 PT Barnum
I'm really not feeling racism from that, so much as good old fashioned McCarthy/Bircher Red (Communist) Scare-ism. Which by itself is ridiculous.
Oh shit, run and hide! It's the Chi-Coms!
/
231 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:33:50pm |
re: #229 Dark_Falcon
I've long thought that one of the best things we could do is cut the number of flag officers in half.
232 | SpaceJesus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:34:36pm |
re: #60 Charles
Stalkers are having a good old time vandalizing the LGF page at Wikipedia.
I'm on it
233 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:35:03pm |
re: #216 Gus 802
I didn't see it as racist but maybe it's there. It's the usual Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theory. The Chinese hold 20 percent of foreign holders of our debt. Equal to the Japanese. We all remember the "Japan is going to take over" fear mongering from the 80s. Now they both hold the same amount of debt.
This is the top 4 from the US Treasury:
China, Mainland 868.4
Japan 836.6
United Kingdom 448.4
Oil Exporters 226.6
Total foreign ownership of US debt is about 30%. 20% of 30% is 6%. So the Chinese own 6% of US debt.
re: #219 freetoken
Which means the American average household owes China about $8k.
$2652.47
234 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:35:07pm |
Be happy, folks.
Be well.
235 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:35:40pm |
re: #231 freetoken
I've long thought that one of the best things we could do is cut the number of flag officers in half.
Half would be a bit drastic. That said Secretary Gates is cutting the number of such positions.
236 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:36:22pm |
237 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:36:23pm |
238 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:37:09pm |
re: #225 joest73
Heh. Be sure to have your conspiracy decoder ring and tin-foil hat at the ready!
239 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:38:44pm |
re: #227 Floral Giraffe
Did you really giggle?
Darn right I did. And it tickled me in that "funny place".
/that spot just beneath my lower lip...
240 | SpaceJesus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:39:25pm |
re: #237 Dark_Falcon
the wikipedia staff are none too pleased atm
241 | joest73 Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:41:33pm |
re: #229 Dark_Falcon
In terms of fraud and waste, yes. But that very hard to stamp out, given the strength major contractors have with Congress.Real reform would require rooting out fraud while not demonizing contractors, and would require a both parties to work together. These days the Dems and Repubs would rather shout "ELEVENTY!!1" at each other.
I agree....it would never happen that way. I'm from the late Jack Murtha's district so I've seen enough corruption with contractors.
Oh well...the Steelers lost and the post game show is over.....time to step away from the computer......
242 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:43:58pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
But it made a good meal. I looked back at the troll's thread and after it was clue-batted the lizards there diced its flesh into small cubes and ate it with scrambled eggs and pancakes. :Dre: #223 palomino
Entitlement cuts could be on the table, in time. But setting them up and phasing them in will take a long time. Major cuts to the defense budget are indeed off the table, for good reason.
But does any of that add to a balanced budget anytime soon? Its seems to me that the TP and much of the GOP is operating under a fantasy regarding deficit reduction. Their numbers don't add up if 75%+ of the budget is off limits.
That bipartisan deficit reduction committee is almost certainly gonna tell us to do what we did in the 90s--cut spending and raise taxes. Which will be impossible as Dems will only agree to significant spending cuts if there are some tax hikes. Which in turn is impossible as the GOP will reject any tax increase, no matter how much Dems are willing to compromise on spending cuts.
I don't know what you consider major military cuts, but do we really have to continue spending more on defense than the rest of the world combined?
243 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:44:03pm |
re: #240 SpaceJesus
the wikipedia staff are none too pleased atm
That's why they get paid the BIG bucks!
LOL!
244 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:44:32pm |
re: #233 goddamnedfrank
$2652.47
Well, ok. Still, even with that reduced number those Walmart toys don't seem so cheap.
246 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:48:18pm |
re: #242 palomino
But does any of that add to a balanced budget anytime soon? Its seems to me that the TP and much of the GOP is operating under a fantasy regarding deficit reduction. Their numbers don't add up if 75%+ of the budget is off limits.
That bipartisan deficit reduction committee is almost certainly gonna tell us to do what we did in the 90s--cut spending and raise taxes. Which will be impossible as Dems will only agree to significant spending cuts if there are some tax hikes. Which in turn is impossible as the GOP will reject any tax increase, no matter how much Dems are willing to compromise on spending cuts.
I don't know what you consider major military cuts, but do we really have to continue spending more on defense than the rest of the world combined?
Yes, we do. We have a lot of weapons systems that are needing replacement or major upgrades and we've got lots of enemies. Gates can try to cut some waste, but that's all. We really do need to maintain our existing capabilities.
247 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:48:58pm |
re: #244 freetoken
Well, ok. Still, even with that reduced number those Walmart toys don't seem so cheap.
No, I agree, they don't seem so cheap in that perspective. I just wanted to remind people that we still own the vast majority of our own debt. That fact sometimes gets lost in the alarmist narrative of our impending slavery to Beijing.
248 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:02:51pm |
re: #246 Dark_Falcon
Yes, we do. We have a lot of weapons systems that are needing replacement or major upgrades and we've got lots of enemies. Gates can try to cut some waste, but that's all. We really do need to maintain our existing capabilities.
Never seems a little excessive that we, with 4% of the world's territory and 4% of its people, spend over 50% of the world's expenditures on military spending? I know Ike lived in a different era, but his words on this still seem prescient.
Either way, if that's off the table, then the TP/GOP dream of balancing the budget their way is really a pipe dream, a joke. The answer isn't magic (compromise on tax increases and spending cuts), but it won't happen as the gop has essentially promised to continue refusing to cooperate.
249 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:06:24pm |
re: #246 Dark_Falcon
Yes, we do. We have a lot of weapons systems that are needing replacement or major upgrades and we've got lots of enemies. Gates can try to cut some waste, but that's all. We really do need to maintain our existing capabilities.
Besides, what percentage or our GDP is being spent on military? It seems a bit skewed to claim that the U.S. spends more than everyone else in the entire world combined without putting it into context of GDP, costs of advanced tech, and so on.
Hell, American citizens likely spend more of their own personal income on cocaine, beer, music, whatever, than the all of the other world citizens combined. But what does a statement like that really mean?
250 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:09:30pm |
Watching Die Hard with a Vengeance. Ironically, it's about terrorists in New York but when the movie was made, the WTC was still around.
A beautiful shot of both the towers. I'm still sad that I never got the chance to see the center prior to that fateful day.
251 | SpaceJesus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:14:22pm |
re: #243 Floral Giraffe
the wikipedia editors were mad at me for taking down the stalker vandalism at first, but now that we've talked, they agree it should come down.
"Moreover, I now see that the reference provided fails WP:RS and that you were right to have removed it. Note, that I have struck out the warning above. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. — SpikeToronto"
the wiki editors don't want to put up with stalker shenanigans either
252 | ClaudeMonet Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:19:29pm |
re: #241 joest73
I agree...it would never happen that way. I'm from the late Jack Murtha's district so I've seen enough corruption with contractors.
Oh well...the Steelers lost and the post game show is over...time to step away from the computer...
It's OK, for two reasons--One, the Saints aren't exactly pikers, and Two, next week the Steelers get the Mighty Bengals on MNF.
253 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:20:18pm |
re: #251 SpaceJesus
Quite cool of you to take the front on this. I don't care for the broad tar brush you slap southern states with, but all around you're a great chap!
254 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:23:05pm |
re: #248 palomino
Either way, if that's off the table, then the TP/GOP dream of balancing the budget their way is really a pipe dream, a joke.
Agree, it's a joke, and it always was and will be. It's a hot button, an emotionalism appeal, a kind of Lucy and Charlie Brown scenario.
255 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:24:42pm |
re: #249 Slumbering Behemoth
Besides, what percentage or our GDP is being spent on military? It seems a bit skewed to claim that the U.S. spends more than everyone else in the entire world combined without putting it into context of GDP, costs of advanced tech, and so on.
Hell, American citizens likely spend more of their own personal income on cocaine, beer, music, whatever, than the all of the other world citizens combined. But what does a statement like that really mean?
First off, we do spend a higher percentage of GDP than most other countries. But merely having a high GDP doesn't necessitate larger military spending. So what if our GDP is high? In absolute terms we seem to overspend--6 times as much as our nearest frenemy, China. Maybe, just maybe we could manage to keep ourselves safe for "only" $600B a year?
As for coke, beer and music, it's extremely unlikely that we spend more than the rest of the world combined. The rest of the world likes those things about as much as we do; they like military spending less.
256 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:25:17pm |
In the Colorado races, the Coloradans have more a favorable view of the xenophobe Tancredo than not:
[Link: www.publicpolicypolling.com...]
If Maes weren't running it looks like Tancredo might have become governor.
257 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:27:08pm |
For all you discussing GDP and military spending.
By definition GDP includes government spending.
So less government spending = less GDP.
258 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:28:58pm |
re: #254 freetoken
Agree, it's a joke, and it always was and will be. It's a hot button, an emotionalism appeal, a kind of Lucy and Charlie Brown scenario.
Big question is: will the TP diehards get upset about the gop not bringing us fiscal discipline? Or will they be happy enough that they're now in charge that they will forgive the gop for not delivering on its raison d'etre?
259 | SpaceJesus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:30:16pm |
re: #253 Slumbering Behemoth
it took me 5 minutes to get an editor to remove what probably took them weeks to try and come up with.
260 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:30:30pm |
re: #258 palomino
Big question is: will the TP diehards get upset about the gop not bringing us fiscal discipline?
Good question. My suspicion is that they'll just slither back into the shadows.
261 | freetoken Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:30:59pm |
re: #259 SpaceJesus
Yeah, but you're now omniscient and omnipotent, so it wasn't really a fair fight.
262 | palomino Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:31:44pm |
re: #256 freetoken
In the Colorado races, the Coloradans have more a favorable view of the xenophobe Tancredo than not:
[Link: www.publicpolicypolling.com...]If Maes weren't running it looks like Tancredo might have become governor.
Hickenlooper (what a name) is probably gonna win, but I'm afraid Tancredo still has a chance. Maes is down to 8% in polls. Most Republicans have forgotten about him and are moving in Tancredo's direction.
263 | SpaceJesus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:38:08pm |
re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, SpaceJesus was hated here for many years. And yet, he persevered...
it was pretty hilarious being the only liberal here surrounded by people who had their homepages set to free repubic
264 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:45:39pm |
re: #255 palomino
This document is a teeny bit dated, but it does show that, at least from '99 to '04, the U.S. isn't the highest spender by comparison. At least as I understand it. But I should say that I am the first person to admit that I don't really know all the nuances of economics.
First off, we do spend a higher percentage of GDP than most other countries. But merely having a high GDP doesn't necessitate larger military spending. So what if our GDP is high? In absolute terms we seem to overspend--6 times as much as our nearest frenemy, China. Maybe, just maybe we could manage to keep ourselves safe for "only" $600B a year?
Could this have something to do with having the most technologically advanced military on earth? Our equipment costs more than used Kalashnikovs. DF knows way more about this stuff than I do, I'm just kind throwing things out there. Maybe I'll learn something.
As for coke, beer and music, it's extremely unlikely that we spend more than the rest of the world combined. The rest of the world likes those things about as much as we do; they like military spending less.
I dunno. Check out this pic, at least relating to the black market drug trade. Also, just another thing I was throwing out there, hence the word "likely".
265 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:49:45pm |
re: #263 SpaceJesus
it was pretty hilarious being the only liberal here surrounded by people who had their homepages set to free repubic
Well, you weren't the only liberal here. Before you showed up with your "OMG! BLASPHEMOUS NIC!", Avanti was taking both boots from all kinds of folk looking to bash "dem gawt-damned commie libruls".
Heh, but you sure did take a lion's share of bullshit with style. Props to you for that.
266 | SpaceJesus Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:57:13pm |
re: #265 Slumbering Behemoth
whatever happened to avanti? i remember when i would go looking for posts of mine here on lgf i would scroll real fast down the page looking for big red numbers only to find that they belonged to him half the time.
267 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:00:59am |
re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth
This document is a teeny bit dated, but it does show that, at least from '99 to '04, the U.S. isn't the highest spender by comparison. At least as I understand it. But I should say that I am the first person to admit that I don't really know all the nuances of economics.
Could this have something to do with having the most technologically advanced military on earth? Our equipment costs more than used Kalashnikovs. DF knows way more about this stuff than I do, I'm just kind throwing things out there. Maybe I'll learn something.
I just said that we spend a higher portion of our GDP on military than most countries, not all.
Regardless, we're no longer gearing up for the mother of all wars against the Russkies. I have a hard time believing that simply containing costs for now and making small cuts in the future will make us demonstrably less safe. Unless we intend to nation build in every continent it's unlikely that we couldn't withstand some cuts.
A country with 4% of the world's land and population spends 51% of its military expenditures. Talk about out of whack.
268 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:06:30am |
re: #266 SpaceJesus
He's still here, quite regularly even. He's just not getting gang-banged with automatic down dings like he used to.
269 | freetoken Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:11:02am |
re: #267 palomino
A country with 4% of the world's land and population spends 51% of its military expenditures. Talk about out of whack.
But we also have something like 22% of the world's GDP.
So, for 4% of the population to maintain 22% of the world GDP, it might be necessary for that population to be responsible for 50% of world military expenditures.
270 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:12:06am |
re: #251 SpaceJesus
the wikipedia editors were mad at me for taking down the stalker vandalism at first, but now that we've talked, they agree it should come down.
"Moreover, I now see that the reference provided fails WP:RS and that you were right to have removed it. Note, that I have struck out the warning above. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. — SpikeToronto"
the wiki editors don't want to put up with stalker shenanigans either
Excellent job.
271 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:16:28am |
re: #269 freetoken
But we also have something like 22% of the world's GDP.
So, for 4% of the population to maintain 22% of the world GDP, it might be necessary for that population to be responsible for 50% of world military expenditures.
How does 22% of GDP get us to 50% of total expenditures?
And China is gaining on us in GDP, so would it be in their best interests to quadruple their military spending?
272 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:17:05am |
re: #267 palomino
Meh, I'm not really the proper foil to argue this with. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to economics.
I have a hard time believing that simply containing costs for now and making small cuts in the future will make us demonstrably less safe.
I have a hard time believing that as well, however...
A country with 4% of the world's land and population spends 51% of its military expenditures. Talk about out of whack.
... statements like this really do not have any significant context attached to them in order to really see the entire picture with any kind of relevant perspective, and I've only heard them made by folks handing out fliers at head festivals and rock concerts. That's not meant as an insult directed at you or your argument, so please don't take it as such.
273 | freetoken Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:18:49am |
re: #271 palomino
How does 22% of GDP get us to 50% of total expenditures?
"How?" - well, that could take a while to untangle. Yet I am merely offering up that there is indeed a connection.
And China is gaining on us in GDP, so would it be in their best interests to quadruple their military spending?
And, Chinese military spending is going up as they increase their GDP.
274 | Eclectic Infidel Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:21:27am |
re: #265 Slumbering Behemoth
Well, you weren't the only liberal here. Before you showed up with your "OMG! BLASPHEMOUS NIC!", Avanti was taking both boots from all kinds of folk looking to bash "dem gawt-damned commie libruls".
Heh, but you sure did take a lion's share of bullshit with style. Props to you for that.
When I joined in 2006, I caught the tail end of the anti-liberal rhetoric. I've only become a regular poster here since 2008.
275 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:33:03am |
re: #274 eclectic infidel
It was pretty rough. I bet if you go back far enough I acted pretty roughly myself.
But I don't ever recall piling on him. He took loads of vitriol and consistently responded in a decent manner, without resorting to mirroring the crap that was thrown at him. I respect the hell out of him for that.
276 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:45:20am |
re: #272 Slumbering Behemoth
... statements like this really do not have any significant context attached to them in order to really see the entire picture with any kind of relevant perspective, and I've only heard them made by folks handing out fliers at head festivals and rock concerts. That's not meant as an insult directed at you or your argument, so please don't take it as such.
Care to provide the context with relevant perspective that would justify spending more than the rest of the world? It's certainly not an unfair question to ask why we spend so much. And is it really impossible for us to protect ourselves while making modest cuts? Even Gates has pushed for some cuts, as have a lot of other brass and ex-brass.
As for the comment, it's not an insult. Some of the smarter people I know go to head festivals and lots of rock concerts.
277 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:49:32am |
re: #273 freetoken
"
And, Chinese military spending is going up as they increase their GDP.
Just great. One more reason to increase our own military spending. Let's have an arms race with China now. The one with the Soviets was so much fun!
Five years ago Cheney expressed concerns about the Chinese military budget rising from 50 to $55B. Which does create some legitimate concern. The Chinese response was that, since the US is spending 10x as much, they are in no position to lecture us.
278 | freetoken Mon, Nov 1, 2010 12:57:03am |
re: #277 palomino
I'm offering it up as a phenomenon to be understood, without passing any immediate moral judgement upon it.
re: #276 palomino
Care to provide the context with relevant perspective that would justify spending more than the rest of the world?
It's not possible to understand the post WWII expenditures on military by the US without looking at the role of the US worldwide. For many nations all over the world we have been an important partner in their own foreign policy and security, in many cases being the primary partner.
The US undertook, for various reasons, the role of policeman and defender.
Now, you might want to argue that we shouldn't have done that, or that we can't do it anymore. But, without a doubt our military expenditures are directly related to the roles we play internationally.
279 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:02:18am |
re: #276 palomino
Again, I'm really not the greatest foil to have this conversation with. And again...
Care to provide the context with relevant perspective that would justify spending more than the rest of the world?
Arguments like this are meaningless without proper context. We in the U.S. probably spend more on road maintenance than any other nation in the world, but what does a statement like that really mean without some kind of context? Also again, just something I'm throwing out there, I don't know the real numbers on that.
And is it really impossible for us to protect ourselves while making modest cuts?
I've never argued that it wasn't, so I'm confused as to why you keep hammering that point with me.
As for the comment, it's not an insult. Some of the smarter people I know go to head festivals and lots of rock concerts.
I'd say the same, but I'd also say that you and I likely need to broaden our social experience. Just sayin'.
280 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:09:23am |
re: #278 freetoken
I'm offering it up as a phenomenon to be understood, without passing any immediate moral judgement upon it.
re: #276 palomino
It's not possible to understand the post WWII expenditures on military by the US without looking at the role of the US worldwide. For many nations all over the world we have been an important partner in their own foreign policy and security, in many cases being the primary partner.
The US undertook, for various reasons, the role of policeman and defender.
Now, you might want to argue that we shouldn't have done that, or that we can't do it anymore. But, without a doubt our military expenditures are directly related to the roles we play internationally.
That all makes sense, as it clearly is America's past over the last 60 years. But, just as we are forcing ourselves to acknowledge new global economic realities, we may want to re-think our military role as well, at least to the extent that modest cuts in military spending are on the table.
The reason we've been able to play world cop has been our overwhelming economic superiority. Now that much of the rest of the world has crawled out of first the ashes of WWII and then communist dictatorships and colonialism, we probably can't maintain such vast superiority. Just being realistic.
281 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:16:37am |
re: #279 Slumbering Behemoth
I'd say the same, but I'd also say that you and I likely need to broaden our social experience. Just sayin'.
Why do you and I need to broaden our social experiences?
You're right, I haven't provided a lot of context. I'm just saying that expenditures this large need clear and compelling justifications, and we often don't get the explanations we should.
282 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:23:34am |
re: #281 palomino
Why do you and I need to broaden our social experiences?
Even though I did agree with this statement...
Some of the smarter people I know go to head festivals and lots of rock concerts.
... you have to admit it's kind of silly. I imagine if we were to go hang with the folks of CERN, for example, we'd find them on average far smarter than anyone we've ever met at head festivals or rock concerts.
Of course, I am making the assumption that you haven't done so in that example.
283 | freetoken Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:25:24am |
re: #280 palomino
But, just as we are forcing ourselves to acknowledge new global economic realities, we may want to re-think our military role as well, ...
Rumsfeld was one of the leading (establishment) proponents of rethinking American military structure, but he got heck from all sides.
Currently the US military is acknowledging that they have to change their machinery (mostly transportation) from being dependent upon petroleum, accepting that the US will always have an oil problem and it will get worse over time.
I think there are plenty of strategists and thinkers out there that acknowledge that the role of the US has to change.
Yet we see in contemporary American politics and public discussion a great deal of angst about losing our prestige/control on the international stage. Recently we've seen pundits/politicians spreading fear about the US not being #1 in this or that. China is usually the boogie-man.
This sort of losing face, as they would say in the East, is causing some of the angst we see in the populism (Tea Partyism) today, I believe.
Where this is all going I don't know, but I don't like what I read/see/hear from the wingnut crowd - it really is just mindless mob-think.
How will the Tea Partying faction of the electorate react to the US not getting its way in some big changes coming this decade?
Recently there was a meeting of central bankers and finance ministers, including reps from the US, to discuss currencies and exchange rates, etc. The US got some of what it wanted, but there were concessions too. As time goes by more concessions will be necessary, to other countries wrt what the US can do (with money and government spending.)
How will the American public respond, once the populace actually understands what is happening?
Our military expenditures are just part of a larger picture of how the US fits into the international order.
284 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:34:26am |
Interesting, but...
Laters. Catch y'all some other time.
285 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:46:43am |
re: #282 Slumbering Behemoth
Even though I did agree with this statement...
... you have to admit it's kind of silly. I imagine if we were to go hang with the folks of CERN, for example, we'd find them on average far smarter than anyone we've ever met at head festivals or rock concerts.
Of course, I am making the assumption that you haven't done so in that example.
Hang out with CERN folks? No, haven't done that. Not likely to either. But a couple of steps down are the educated professionals who play golf at their local country club, and I don't find the ones I know in that group to be smarter as a whole than the "stoned slackers."
286 | palomino Mon, Nov 1, 2010 1:57:00am |
re: #283 freetoken
The only reason I fixated on military spending is that it's just one more part of the budget that won't get cut, thus making the TP fantasy of a balanced budget completely irrational.
You make some really good points. Agree about the TP hysteria. Seems to be a belief that if America's not NO. 1 in all the big things, then the world is going to hell and there's no hope. And there actually is such a view among some evangelicals, who see American dominance as a must.
There was a great piece along these lines by Hitchens a few weeks back, it's called "white fright".
288 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:00:57am |
re: #283 freetoken
I even agreed with Reagan's maxim that "you can't solve social programs by throwing money at them".
But when our military has a problem, the solution always seems to be to throw money at it and to toss accountability overboard.
And if we are maintaining a military presence in the Middle East to ensure our supplies of petroeum, then it amounts to an indirect subsidy of this form of energy.
This in turn serves as an economic disincentive to developing alternatives taht lessen our need for a miitary presence in socially and politically backwards parts of the world.
289 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:12:58am |
re: #4 Ojoe
1. Is that a brain back there, or is it a jello salad from a mould, with included fruit?
2. Two more days 'till refudiation day.
3. Hillary vs. Sarah for 2012? Cat fight, Fitz Roww! It would be very entertaining.
4. Good night all.
Ugh just what the fuck, man
Do you really think this is cool?
290 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:14:37am |
re: #285 palomino
Hang out with CERN folks? No, haven't done that. Not likely to either. But a couple of steps down are the educated professionals who play golf at their local country club, and I don't find the ones I know in that group to be smarter as a whole than the "stoned slackers."
I find the stoned slackers to be many times smarter than any country club android I've ever met, and I grew up in a gated community in the suburbs with an honest to god country club. Those people were stupid, they were mean, and they ignored their kids. I'm so glad I don't live anywhere near any of those people anymore
292 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:45:45am |
re: #290 WindUpBird
I find the stoned slackers to be many times smarter than any country club android I've ever met, and I grew up in a gated community in the suburbs with an honest to god country club. Those people were stupid, they were mean, and they ignored their kids. I'm so glad I don't live anywhere near any of those people anymore
WUB=DJ Jazzy Trevor.
293 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:46:30am |
Morning! I'm getting a bit nervous about the upcoming festivities.
294 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:49:27am |
295 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:51:38am |
re: #294 researchok
Why?
The colts are missing a ton of players in the secondary and offensive skill positions. Addai may not play, Brown is still hurt, it's going to be tough to pull it out.
/pull it out.
296 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:52:10am |
re: #295 RogueOne
The colts are missing a ton of players in the secondary and offensive skill positions. Addai may not play, Brown is still hurt, it's going to be tough to pull it out.
/pull it out.
Have another cup of coffee.
//
297 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 3:54:55am |
re: #296 researchok
I'm concerned! The AFC South is tough. Yesterday our worst team (the jags) killed the poor cowboys. The colts need this one to keep up.
298 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:03:36am |
re: #297 RogueOne
Jerry Jones said yesterday that it is pointless to fire a coach in mid-season.
I wonder; Should Wade read anything into that?
299 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:03:59am |
re: #258 palomino
Big question is: will the TP diehards get upset about the gop not bringing us fiscal discipline? Or will they be happy enough that they're now in charge that they will forgive the gop for not delivering on its raison d'etre?
If they don't deliver then we'll see a 3rd party, possibly as quick as 2012. It's too early to tell which side (Repub or Dem) a 3rd party would end up screwing. The last time it worked in the Dems favor, who knows now though.
300 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:04:59am |
re: #298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Jerry Jones said yesterday that it is pointless to fire a coach in mid-season.
I wonder; Should Wade read anything into that?
He keeps saying he's not going to fire Wade but at this point I don't see why not. They have a great roster and even without their best QB they should have beaten the Jags.
301 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:05:06am |
re: #299 RogueOne
I wish there were a middle party... but we'd never get anyone elected.
302 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:05:19am |
re: #297 RogueOne
I'm concerned! The AFC South is tough. Yesterday our worst team (the jags) killed the poor cowboys. The colts need this one to keep up.
I admire your discipline.
Here I am, all focused on the election.
/
303 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:06:17am |
re: #302 researchok
I admire your discipline.
Here I am, all focused on the election.
/
You need to get your priorities straight man./
304 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:07:04am |
re: #303 RogueOne
You need to get your priorities straight man./
I hear that.
Burgers for breakfast. I could focus on that.
305 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:07:27am |
re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I wish there were a middle party... but we'd never get anyone elected.
If we could take all the fiscal conservatives from the dems and the repubs we might just have a chance. Let the wings fight amongst themselves about the stupid shit.
306 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:07:49am |
re: #304 researchok
I hear that.
Burgers for breakfast. I could focus on that.
Speaking of which, I need fast food breakfast. BRB.
307 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:08:33am |
Well, I'm no damn help. That's for sure.
Was voting today absentee... (gonna be out of town tomorrow).
Absentee closed on Saturday.
I am disenfranchised.
308 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:11:18am |
re: #304 researchok
"Went to Burger King, ordered a hamburger. Clerk said, "It's before 10am we only serve breakfast before 10:30." I said, "Why don't you go outside and read the building."
Forgot the comedian's name...
309 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:11:33am |
Have you seen this? I posted it as a link, but it may just get glossed over.
310 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:12:05am |
re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, I'm no damn help. That's for sure.
Was voting today absentee... (gonna be out of town tomorrow).
Absentee closed on Saturday.
I am disenfranchised.
That sucks!
311 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:13:30am |
I just hope post election doesn't turn into a battle royale.
I'm not hopeful, though.
312 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:16:09am |
re: #310 researchok
I was actually going to vote for Stuart Bain. (I knew him when he was a wee child)... as part of my vote against anybody who is in.
According to the papers he has $6,500.00 left in his campaign fund.
He's a teaparty, libertarian, nut-job... and that's how anti incumbent I am. (but I also know that Bob Goodlatte will get well over 80% of the vote).
313 | Taqyia2Me Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:16:38am |
re: #309 researchok
Have you seen this? I posted it as a link, but it may just get glossed over.
My gut feeling is that Iran has been a helluva lot more complicit in international terrorism since the 1970's that anyone gives them credit for.
314 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:17:09am |
re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was actually going to vote for Stuart Bain. (I knew him when he was a wee child)... as part of my vote against anybody who is in.
According to the papers he has $6,500.00 left in his campaign fund.
He's a teaparty, libertarian, nut-job... and that's how anti incumbent I am. (but I also know that Bob Goodlatte will get well over 80% of the vote).
Who is his opponent?
315 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:19:06am |
Why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as well as prohibition did, in five years Americans would be the smartest race of people on Earth.
- Will Rogers
Good Morning Lizards!
316 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:19:39am |
re: #313 Taqyia2Me
My gut feeling is that Iran has been a helluva lot more complicit in international terrorism since the 1970's that anyone gives them credit for.
The Iranian waters run deep.
Just this past week Nigeria confirmed Iranian arms meant for Hamas were intercepted.
And there is the matter of Iranians supplying arms to insurgents in Iraq, Hizbollah via Syria, etc.
The list is long
317 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:23:38am |
Hamas Admits: Lost 700 Fighters in Cast Lead, Not 50
Hamas government Interior Minister Fathi Hamad, confirmed Monday for the first time that the Hamas in Gaza lost 700 fighters in Cast Lead, 250 in the first day alone.
Immediately after the operation, Hamas had claimed that the IDF had killed fewer than 50 of their men. These new figures are close to data published by the IDF at the time of the war.
319 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:33:40am |
321 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:35:12am |
322 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:39:51am |
re: #321 researchok
Not bad at all, if you are me.
Dems won't even run against him.
I just said I would not vote for an incumbent.
I guess I kept my word. I didn't.
323 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:42:12am |
re: #322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not bad at all, if you are me.
Dems won't even run against him.
I just said I would not vote for an incumbent.
I guess I kept my word. I didn't.
All kidding aside, the anti incumbent sentiment runs deep. I suspect there will be even more of that in '12. I expect the Dems to get on board.
Term limits is something that everyone can agree on. This 'ruling class' has been fostering resentment for a long time.
324 | insert name here Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:42:40am |
Not germane to anything, but I thought I'd say, this would actually be a pretty cool poem...
re: #70 reine.de.tout
This whole thing is just crap.And that bolded sentence is all a grammatical mess.
"...a recent thread where he removes . . . " (not "removed")
"...all the vowels from someone he has just blocked..."
325 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:43:47am |
re: #324 insert name here
Not germane to anything, but I thought I'd say, this would actually be a pretty cool poem...
Too early for poetry for me.
/
326 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:50:37am |
re: #311 researchok
I just hope post election doesn't turn into a battle royale.
I'm not hopeful, though.
Oh it will. You think the 30% of the dem faithful are irritable now just wait until Wednesday morning.
327 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:52:16am |
re: #326 RogueOne
Oh it will. You think the 30% of the dem faithful are irritable now just wait until Wednesday morning.
I hope there are a few more sane and rational heads in here.
328 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:52:44am |
re: #327 researchok
You mean me? I'm not close to either.
329 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:53:38am |
re: #323 researchok
Term limits is something that everyone can agree on. This 'ruling class' has been fostering resentment for a long time.
Not everyone agrees. The people who make the term limit laws do not agree.
330 | researchok Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:53:51am |
re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You mean me? I'm not close to either.
LOL- pretty good for an early AM!
331 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 1, 2010 4:59:48am |
I am eating a steak as soon as I get to work. And some fried taters. And good morning.
332 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:02:41am |
re: #48 Gus 802
Or when Democrats from coal states vote against cap and trade. You'll never see a Republican voting for cap and trade.
Dave Riechert.
333 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:26:54am |
Former President Bush threw out a helluva first pitch yesterday. It is so sad to see the Elder looking so frail.
334 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:28:18am |
re: #333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Former President Bush threw out a helluva first pitch yesterday. It is so sad to see the Elder looking so frail.
Every time he reads or hears anything about the Tea Party it probably drains even more of his life energies from his body...
335 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:32:14am |
re: #334 ralphieboy
Funny. I was curious and went hunting for Obama first pitches, and of course there're comparisons with Bush all over the place (like America depends on a pitching ace in the Oval Office)... but I did see one funny post about Obama... "He throws with his left wing."
336 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:33:42am |
re: #333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Former President Bush threw out a helluva first pitch yesterday. It is so sad to see the Elder looking so frail.
It was great to see them both, cruising out in the Big Wheels ;)
He was sure looking his age.
G.W. threw a good pitch.
337 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:34:19am |
re: #335 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Funny. I was curious and went hunting for Obama first pitches, and of course there're comparisons with Bush all over the place (like America depends on a pitching ace in the Oval Office)... but I did see one funny post about Obama... "He throws with his left wing."
It's a symbol of Manhood and connectedness to American culture. Any lacking on that account is a sign that he is a Muslim Keny(si)an anti-imperialist.
338 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:36:53am |
What happens if the White House simply declines the invitation to throw out the pitch? They know he's gonna look like a twit doing it.
Just say no, President Obama.
339 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:47:40am |
re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What happens if the White House simply declines the invitation to throw out the pitch? They know he's gonna look like a twit doing it.
Just say no, President Obama.
Baseball, Blah. Now the president taking the first snap of a football game, that would be something to see!!!
//
340 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 5:49:57am |
re: #339 rwdflynavy
Baseball, Blah. Now the president taking the first snap of a football game, that would be something to see!!!
//
Some how, it seems more fitting at this point to watch him drop back ten and punt...
341 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:10:08am |
342 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:32:02am |
re: #317 researchok
Gee, what a surprise. And when you factor in the 700 with the overall casualties claimed and verified, the number of civilian casualties is a fraction of what Hamas claimed. After all, those 650 additional Hamas thugs were originally categorized as civilians.
I'm frankly surprised that they've confirmed what everyone - and particularly the Israelis - knew. Why would they confirm that information and why now? That seems rather... odd.
343 | Jadespring Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:34:57am |
Morning.
The agenda today consists of buying a wood stove. Good thing too as it got down to below zero last night. It will be nice to have a source of comforting heat in the house rather then the electric heaters I have right now.
344 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:43:29am |
re: #342 lawhawk
Gee, what a surprise. And when you factor in the 700 with the overall casualties claimed and verified, the number of civilian casualties is a fraction of what Hamas claimed. After all, those 650 additional Hamas thugs were originally categorized as civilians.
I'm frankly surprised that they've confirmed what everyone - and particularly the Israelis - knew. Why would they confirm that information and why now? That seems rather... odd.
It does seem odd - there is a reason to revise their losses to reflect the pain they suffered... is it to build up sympathy, to justify a rationale that revenge must be brought against Israel?
Are the drums getting louder across the river?
345 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:00am |
re: #305 RogueOne
If we could take all the fiscal conservatives from the dems and the repubs we might just have a chance. Let the wings fight amongst themselves about the stupid shit.
I would agree, but I'd rather take the pragmatists from both parties. The fiscons can be just as dogmatic as the socons. Unless of course you mean fiscal conservative back when it meant balance the books and raise taxes when necessary, as opposed to never raise taxes ever and always cut spending. Those folks are just as delusional as the spendthrifts.
I don't have a problem with government spending as long as it's for things that pay off in the long run. That's something government should do. Fund research and development, pay for infrastructure improvements, etc. that may not pay off for decades, but which will enhance and benefit the population as a whole.
346 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:00am |
re: #342 lawhawk
re: #344 Ericus58
It does seem odd - there is a reason to revise their losses to reflect the pain they suffered... is it to build up sympathy, to justify a rationale that revenge must be brought against Israel?
Are the drums getting louder across the river?
Could be a (re) call to arms
i.e. ,, "Look people ,, 700 of our brave fighting warriors have died at the hands of the evil occupiers. We can win, but we need you to come fight"
347 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:08am |
Hello all,
I'm on the hunt for a musician, or permission to use some good music for a video short I shot. It's a sky beauty piece, clouds blowing through the area at Mt Wilson Saturday. 5 minutes long. Today I'll be scouring public domain sites, but if anyone is interested to throw in just for exposure/generous screen credit, well my nic is blue. Thanks!
348 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:46:33am |
re: #341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Kind of what he is being forced to do tomorrow...
maybe.
Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.
349 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:47:32am |
re: #348 ralphieboy
Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.
I suspect they'll drop the ball or complain about being rushed after they take possession.
350 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:47:43am |
re: #348 ralphieboy
Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.
My hope ,, not trick plays,,, no penalties ,, no illegal substitutions!
351 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:53:00am |
re: #348 ralphieboy
Yes, it is drop back and punt time for obama, just gota see how the GOP does on the return, so to speak.
It may be that it works out for the best. I think Obama needs to show some passion and get the same people that voted for him energized and working for him rather than standing around and kvetching that he wasn't the Messiah that he never made himself out to be in the first place.
This may bring it out in him, it may not, but I do think he needs to stop talking about bipartisanship and actual governance and realize the other side isn't going to play as they don't see it as a winning electoral strategy. He needs to find a way to get the other side to see that continuing to play offensive defense will come back and bite them later, but I don't see that happening at all.
I don't think it's a matter of arrogance or lack of passion, I think he's working hard to get things done, I think he's just more of an intellectual than a street fighter.
352 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:56:22am |
re: #348 ralphieboy
It was 4th and 20 from the Democrats' 20 yard line. The punt resulted in multiple flags have been thrown on the play. We have holding on the kicking team and an illegal block to the back and facemask with personal foul (intentional) on the return team after the kick. The penalties will be marked off from the spot of the ball. It's 1st and 10 for the GOP from their own 5 yard line.
353 | Jadespring Mon, Nov 1, 2010 6:58:19am |
re: #345 PT Barnum
I would agree, but I'd rather take the pragmatists from both parties. The fiscons can be just as dogmatic as the socons. Unless of course you mean fiscal conservative back when it meant balance the books and raise taxes when necessary, as opposed to never raise taxes ever and always cut spending. Those folks are just as delusional as the spendthrifts.
Hear, hear! I seriously question anyone's economic acumen (regardless of party) when absolutes are talked about this way. I understand that much of it can be just election rhetoric but the consequences of such rhetoric set the public up to believe in things that sometimes aren't always realistic. Mostly I get annoyed because sure on principle 'never raise taxes and cut spending (I assume to balance the budgets) sounds great but the complexity of what that means, whether it's trade-offs or the wholesale disappearing of things never seems to be relayed in anything more then a superficial and usually quite rhetorical manner. It leads to a disconnect between 'what people want' vs 'what it actually costs to supply those wants'.
355 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:00:09am |
356 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:00:22am |
357 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:02:05am |
re: #353 Jadespring
It leads to a disconnect between 'what people want' vs 'what it actually costs to supply those wants'.
That disconnect leads to everyone thinking that it's someone else's fault and someone else should have to pay.
The mentality that somehow my taxes would go down if they just got all the "lazy" people off of welfare and foodstamps or that my life would be better if they just taxed all the rich people at a higher rate is wishful thinking at best.
358 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:03:50am |
359 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:06:11am |
re: #356 RogueOne
re: #353 Jadespring
all good thoughts but I don't believe anyone, from either party, has actually tried to cut spending. Cutting the rate of growth isn't the same thing. I've read in a couple places that Canada has done it in the past, maybe we should ask them how to do it.
The problem with cutting spending is deciding whose ox gets gored. The other problem is that the cuts that most everyone thinks need to be made represent only a small fraction of the budget overall.
360 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:06:42am |
re: #358 sattv4u2
BINGO
For example, I would like to see the Dept. Of Education disbanded but I'm willing to compromise. Cutting it back to the Clinton era budget numbers would be a start.
361 | Jadespring Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:07:02am |
re: #356 RogueOne
re: #353 Jadespring
all good thoughts but I don't believe anyone, from either party, has actually tried to cut spending.
That speaks to setting up (sometimes) unrealistic expectations about trade-offs and what actual cuts really mean. Regardless of the the party, someone tries to cut spending in one place and there is freak out from another side. Most people would agree that on the face of it cutting spending is a good thing but no one seems to want spending cut on things they like. It's always the other persons stuff.
Cutting the rate of growth isn't the same thing. I've read in a couple places that Canada has done it in the past, maybe we should ask them how to do it.I'm trying to recall when this happened but nothing is triggering. Do you remember what spending was cut? It might trigger my recall. :)
362 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:07:50am |
re: #359 PT Barnum
The other problem is that cutting spending often isn't cutting spending.
Say you cut spending on fire inspectors. As a result of that, some buildings are more dangerously prone to fire than usual. As a result, more catch on fire than usual-- leading to more spending on the fire department, which is much more costly than the fire inspectors were.
A lot of spending cuts people advocate are just spending increases down the road. Not spending five thousand dollars to fix the roof can cause you to lose the value of your entire house.
363 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:08:50am |
re: #360 RogueOne
For example, I would like to see the Dept. Of Education disbanded but I'm willing to compromise. Cutting it back to the Clinton era budget numbers would be a start.
What would you replace it with? 50 different standards for education? Because that's more likely where you are heading with that.
364 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:10:18am |
re: #362 Obdicut
The other problem is that cutting spending often isn't cutting spending.
Say you cut spending on fire inspectors. As a result of that, some buildings are more dangerously prone to fire than usual. As a result, more catch on fire than usual-- leading to more spending on the fire department, which is much more costly than the fire inspectors were.
A lot of spending cuts people advocate are just spending increases down the road. Not spending five thousand dollars to fix the roof can cause you to lose the value of your entire house.
Most people advocating spending cuts and tax cuts (which are a type of spending unless balanced by spending cuts) don't think that far ahead. It's all about what they're paying now, not what it will cost 10 or 15 years down the road. Which is why the infrastructure has turned to shit.
365 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:10:25am |
re: #360 RogueOne
For example, I would like to see the Dept. Of Education disbanded but I'm willing to compromise. Cutting it back to the Clinton era budget numbers would be a start.
Here's the thing about the "OMG ,, you CAN'T eliminate the Dept of Ed" cries
I'd be willing to wager over half the people that are against it's elimination can't even tell you when it started.
Wha ,,,,, there were no functioning, good schools prior to it!?!?! After it, ALL schools became great!?!?!?!
366 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:10:25am |
re: #361 Jadespring
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
The received wisdom in the United States is that deep spending cuts are politically impossible. But a number of economically advanced countries, including Sweden, Finland, Canada and, most recently, Ireland, have cut their government budgets when needed.Most relevant, perhaps, is Canada, which cut federal government spending by about 20 percent from 1992 to 1997. The Liberal Party, headed by Jean Chrétien as prime minister and Paul Martin as finance minister, led most of this shift. Prompted by the financial debacle in Mexico, Canadian leaders had the courage and the foresight to make those spending cuts before a fiscal crisis was upon them. In his book “In the Long Run We’re All Dead: The Canadian Turn to Fiscal Restraint,” Timothy Lewis describes Canada’s move from fiscal irresponsibility to a balanced budget — a history that helps explain why the country has managed the current global recession relatively well.
I believe I've also read recently that the new british leadership is trying to do the same thing, cutting actual spending.
To combat PT's point (whose ox gets gored), a 20% across the board actual cut....that way EVERYBODY freaks out! Get all the screaming and crying done at one time.
367 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:12:07am |
re: #363 PT Barnum
What would you replace it with? 50 different standards for education? Because that's more likely where you are heading with that.
What did we have prior to it?
iirc,, my parents got a good education ,,,, my older sister did ,, I did ,, my younger sister did ,, cousins from all over the country did,,, aquantances that I have now from all walks of life/ geography did ,, ALL prior to the DOE
368 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:12:15am |
re: #362 Obdicut
A lot of spending cuts people advocate are just spending increases down the road. Not spending five thousand dollars to fix the roof can cause you to lose the value of your entire house.
Which is the very notion behind health insurance. One could live without it and risk losing everything over a catastrophic illness or injury.
369 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:12:34am |
re: #366 RogueOne
To combat PT's point (whose ox gets gored), a 20% across the board actual cut...that way EVERYBODY freaks out! Get all the screaming and crying done at one time.
By god yes! If we're going to cut spending, let's not try to let rationality or appropriateness enter the debate. If $500,000 of spending on erosion control prevents $10,000,000 worth of damage, let's cut that by 20% so we can enjoy the benefits of a few million dollars worth of topsoil floating down the river.
370 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:13:11am |
re: #363 PT Barnum
What would you replace it with? 50 different standards for education? Because that's more likely where you are heading with that.
We already have 50, no, actually, more - standards for education. Schools are still run by local school boards.
The Department of Education does research, keeps statistics, and hands out grants. Now, I suspect at least some of this is useful. But they do NOT set standards or govern local school systems.
Oddly, I seem to have been educated just fine in a time period BEFORE there was such a thing as a US Dept of Education.
371 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:14:50am |
For those who want to know what it actually does.
372 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:15:38am |
re: #367 sattv4u2
What did we have prior to it?
iirc,, my parents got a good education ,,, my older sister did ,, I did ,, my younger sister did ,, cousins from all over the country did,,, aquantances that I have now from all walks of life/ geography did ,, ALL prior to the DOE
Really? Your sister, parents, yourself all were in school prior to 1867? You must be older than I thought.
The original Department of Education was created in 1867 to collect information on schools and teaching that would help the States establish effective school systems. While the agency's name and location within the Executive Branch have changed over the past 130 years, this early emphasis on getting information on what works in education to teachers and education policymakers continues down to the present day.
373 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:15:39am |
re: #371 reine.de.tout
For those who want to know what it actually does.
We don't want to know that, we just want to sacrifice it to our small-government ideology
374 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:16:18am |
re: #368 ralphieboy
Which is the very notion behind health insurance. One could live without it and risk losing everything over a catastrophic illness or injury.
Well, with one small modification; there are lots of spending where the cost down the road is definite, is inevitable. There are people who will never use their health care. But if we cut the number of public defenders down, then the number of cases turned over to a new trial inevitably will go up-- and that represents a real and actual cost.
This is just as true for private businesses as it is for public ones. I've experienced it a ton of times myself. Refusing to put money into an early QA process means the schedule stretching out at the end as multiple late fixes are needed, which winds up costing a hell of a lot more than the early QA time would have.
375 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:17:03am |
re: #371 reine.de.tout
For those who want to know what it actually does.
Thanks reine. I went and looked but at a different section. I think there's a lot of confusion by non teachers with what the department does and what we think they do.
376 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:17:35am |
re: #372 PT Barnum
Really? Your sister, parents, yourself all were in school prior to 1867? You must be older than I thought.
Nice try, but you know we're talking about the DOE created in the Carter admin
And as REINE stated ,,, heres bit a partial list of "DOE's"
[Link: www.google.com...]
377 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:18:01am |
re: #372 PT Barnum
Really? Your sister, parents, yourself all were in school prior to 1867? You must be older than I thought.
It was established as a Cabinet level agency in 1980.
From your link.
378 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:18:34am |
re: #373 ralphieboy
We don't want to know that, we just want to sacrifice it to our small-government ideology
If we didn't have the DOE as the "boogyman" to blame for why we can't ram creationism through the science classes at the local level we'd have to create it...
///
379 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:18:57am |
re: #374 Obdicut
Well, with one small modification; there are lots of spending where the cost down the road is definite, is inevitable. There are people who will never use their health care. But if we cut the number of public defenders down, then the number of cases turned over to a new trial inevitably will go up-- and that represents a real and actual cost.
This is just as true for private businesses as it is for public ones. I've experienced it a ton of times myself. Refusing to put money into an early QA process means the schedule stretching out at the end as multiple late fixes are needed, which winds up costing a hell of a lot more than the early QA time would have.
You also can't inspect quality into a result. It's the up front R&D that often doesn't pay off all that wel (blind alleys etc) that results in lower long term costs because the final solution was the right one and required less maintenance, tweaking etc.
380 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:19:39am |
re: #379 PT Barnum
You also can't inspect quality into a result. It's the up front R&D that often doesn't pay off all that wel (blind alleys etc) that results in lower long term costs because the final solution was the right one and required less maintenance, tweaking etc.
Nice. Deming would be proud...
381 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:20:03am |
re: #375 PT Barnum
Thanks reine. I went and looked but at a different section. I think there's a lot of confusion by non teachers with what the department does and what we think they do.
Yes, there is a huge amount of of confusion as to what the US Dept of Ed. does.
It's current mission in its current life as a cabinet level agency has expanded from the original mission, of keeping statistics and information to aid school systems. But it's still basically the same mission. It does not interfere in local school systems.
382 | Jadespring Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:20:33am |
re: #366 RogueOne
Thanks. I vaguely recall that time period now. :) Right now is a different story though. Overall the fiscons are wondering what the previous few years budgets have been all about as they are more spendy then balanced and the years of having a surplus were kyboshed. Part of it is related to the global economic down turn of course but regardless the word of the day is spend more and we'll lower taxes.
383 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:20:55am |
re: #377 reine.de.tout
It was established as a Cabinet level agency in 1980.
From your link.
Nobody but nobody specified. Be more specific next time. I can't always hear or read what you mean to say.
384 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:21:18am |
re: #380 Aceofwhat?
Nice. Deming would be proud...
I was a quality wonk at one time. Deming was required reading.
385 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:21:34am |
re: #374 Obdicut
Well, with one small modification; there are lots of spending where the cost down the road is definite, is inevitable.
Individually considered, yes, but overall and statistically those costs are all but inevitable.
386 | Jadespring Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:22:12am |
Anyways gotta run and get the day started.
See yah all laters.
387 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:22:16am |
re: #379 PT Barnum
Yeah. QA is the classic thing that's always shorted in private industry. Every company I've ever worked at is in a constant turmoil with the QA department, since the QA department, when it's working well, appears to not really be doing much. When they catch mistakes and send them back to be fixed on time, it's not noticeable. Things go out on time, everything is great. So the executives start thinking that they can reduce QA, or more often, externalize it to save money. And that usually leads to more rounds of development, more work for everyone else in QA-ing their own product or following up on what QA used to follow up on.
It really takes good leadership to recognize the value of strong QA. The system doesn't produce it naturally.
388 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:01am |
re: #383 PT Barnum
Nobody but nobody specified. Be more specific next time. I can't always hear or read what you mean to say.
I wasn't part of the original conversation, just clarifying.
Before 1980 it was, basically, a work unit that collected information. Now it's a cabinet level agency which gives it a bit more power; however, it still does not interfere in local school systems, other than possibly handing out grants for various initiatives.
389 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:30am |
And with that, my craving for a some thing spicy to eat has become a ravenous hunger. I'm going to go out and get something nice.
390 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:30am |
re: #369 Obdicut
By god yes! If we're going to cut spending, let's not try to let rationality or appropriateness enter the debate. If $500,000 of spending on erosion control prevents $10,000,000 worth of damage, let's cut that by 20% so we can enjoy the benefits of a few million dollars worth of topsoil floating down the river.
You're right. The way we've been going about it has been much more effective. Maybe you could start off by explaining what spending programs should be left untouched? BTW, nice job jumping straight to the freaking out.
We can't afford the direction we're headed and everyone including the president has acknowledged it. Both the discretionary and non-discretionary portions of the budget are going to have to be cut eventually. Do it now before it gets worse.
391 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:23:58am |
re: #387 Obdicut
What do QA and NASCAR have in common? Neither is all that interesting until something goes terribly wrong.
392 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:25:24am |
re: #388 reine.de.tout
I wasn't part of the original conversation, just clarifying.
Before 1980 it was, basically, a work unit that collected information. Now it's a cabinet level agency which gives it a bit more power; however, it still does not interfere in local school systems, other than possibly handing out grants for various initiatives.
I wasn't directing that at you, more at the person who was calling for it's complete disbandment. You, I appreciate, for clarifying the issue for me.
{Reine}
393 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:25:39am |
re: #391 PT Barnum
What do QA and NASCAR have in common? Neither is all that interesting until something goes terribly wrong.
If NASCAR wants to really find out who the best driver is, have half the cars go around the track the other way,, at the same speeds!!
394 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:26:20am |
re: #392 PT Barnum
I wasn't directing that at you, more at the person who was calling for
it'sits complete disbandment. You, I appreciate, for clarifying the issue for me.{Reine}
See, our inadequate public education system at work!
395 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:26:46am |
re: #390 RogueOne
Cutting across the board by 20% is always going to be a really dumb suggestion, Rogue. Reine can explain to you why a lot better than I can.
Mmm, Jamaican food here I come.
396 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:27:10am |
re: #392 PT Barnum
I wasn't directing that at you, more at the person who was calling for it's complete disbandment. You, I appreciate, for clarifying the issue for me.
{Reine}
Then you weren't directing it me either, because I never called for it's "complete disbandment"
I just made a point that for decades prior to it's current incarnation, schools functioned ,, all across the country
397 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:27:19am |
re: #393 sattv4u2
If NASCAR wants to really find out who the best driver is, have half the cars go around the track the other way,, at the same speeds!!
Wife calls husband "Honey be careful, the news says some nut is driving wrong way down the interstate."
Husband: "One, there's hundreds of em!"
398 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:27:36am |
From PT's link:
One final note: while ED's programs and responsibilities have grown substantially over the years, the Department itself has not. In fact, with a planned fiscal year 2010 level of 4,199, ED's staff is 44 percent below the 7,528 employees who administered Federal education programs in several different agencies in 1980, when the Department was created. These staff reductions, along with a wide range of management improvements, have helped limit administrative costs to approximately 2 percent of the Department's discretionary budget and less than 1 percent of all grants and loans made by the Department. This means that ED delivers about 99 cents on the dollar in education assistance to States, school districts, postsecondary institutions, and students.
Most of the Dept of Ed's spending is in distributing funds.
It does NOT have a huge staff, relative to other agencies.
I have my own questions about the usefulness of some of its programs.
But it's a drop in the bucket; and I'm not sure we'd be "saving" a lot from the federal budget if this agency were to be abolished.
399 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:28:38am |
re: #396 sattv4u2
Then you weren't directing it me either, because I never called for it's "complete disbandment"
I just made a point that for decades prior to it's current incarnation, schools functioned ,, all across the country
I overstated my point, but nonetheless, I do think it's valuable to have a clearing house for information about what does and doesn't work. What are the objections to it?
400 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:29:45am |
re: #394 PT Barnum
See, our inadequate public education system at work!
Um, you were correct the first time.
401 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:30:12am |
re: #395 Obdicut
Cutting across the board by 20% is always going to be a really dumb suggestion, Rogue. Reine can explain to you why a lot better than I can.
Mmm, Jamaican food here I come.
HA! In other words, you don't know but you have a feeling it would be bad. Your feelings are different than mine, my gut tells me there isn't a department in the federal government that couldn't handle a cut. Lets compromise, I want 20%, you want 0%, we'll settle for 13%. That would at least be a start.
402 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:30:47am |
re: #398 reine.de.tout
I have my own questions about the usefulness of some of its programs.
I have my questions about the usefulness of much of what government does (as I have about what corporate america does), and I think that's a valuable conversation to have. I have a problem with wholesale cutting just for the sake of cutting.
403 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:32:10am |
re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar
Um, you were correct the first time.
No, he was right in the correction
He didn't mean to say "who was calling for it's (it is)complete disbandment."
Have another cup-o-coffee!
404 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:33:04am |
re: #376 sattv4u2
Prior to 1980, Education was wrapped in the Health Education and Welfare Cabinet level position. HEW was split in Health and Human Services and ED.
ED primarily serves to collect education data and disburse block grants. That power has expanded under NCLB, but the ultimate education responsibilities are at the state and local level.
Moreover, most education funding comes from state and local taxes - property taxes in many places, supplemented by personal income tax.
In NJ, property taxes largely fund education budgets and the personal income tax was instituted to provide property tax relief. It's ballooned to the point where NJ taxpayers have some of the highest tax burdens in the nation and property tax relief is a joke since it has frequently meant increasing other taxes to fund tax "relief" programs.
405 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:33:44am |
re: #401 RogueOne
HA! In other words, you don't know but you have a feeling it would be bad. Your feelings are different than mine, my gut tells me there isn't a department in the federal government that couldn't handle a cut. Lets compromise, I want 20%, you want 0%, we'll settle for 13%. That would at least be a start.
It seems to me that cutting has gotten to be a fetish among the fiscons. Why not raise revenues to match current spending, then insist that all spending or tax cuts going forward be matched by either increases in revenue or cuts in spending.
Anybody know how much taxes would have to be raised to pay for our current levels of spending?
406 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:33:45am |
re: #390 RogueOne
You're right. The way we've been going about it has been much more effective. Maybe you could start off by explaining what spending programs should be left untouched? BTW, nice job jumping straight to the freaking out.
We can't afford the direction we're headed and everyone including the president has acknowledged it. Both the discretionary and non-discretionary portions of the budget are going to have to be cut eventually. Do it now before it gets worse.
Any "across the board" percentage reduction usually means a reduction in employees, not programs, with the remaining employees expected to take up the slack of those who are gone.
At some point, it simply is not prudent or possible to "do more with less". That phrase always means fewer employees taking up the slack. Here's what you get:
Reduced morale and productivity, seasoned employees quitting or retiring because they are flat-out exhausted.
To be effective, a reduction in cost should first take into account the core mission of the agency; and THEN eliminate programs that are nice, but not part of the core mission, along with the employees who administer those programs. This NEVER happens. Everyone has their pet program; no one wants to "lose" whatever service they're getting from it. What happens is that there is a reduction in the number of employees assigned to the program, which means service suffers, and people get pissed off at "dead-head" government employees, who mostly are trying their very best under extremely difficult circumstances.
I've been there, done that.
407 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:34:34am |
re: #403 sattv4u2
No, he was right in the correction
He didn't mean to say "who was calling for it's (it is)complete disbandment."
Have another cup-o-coffee!
Wrong. It's= it is.
408 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:34:46am |
re: #404 lawhawk
Thansk
I'm aware of all that, and to my point (and REINES) it's the state, county, city and towns that hold power over "your" school, not the DOE
409 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:35:26am |
re: #402 PT Barnum
I have my questions about the usefulness of much of what government does (as I have about what corporate america does), and I think that's a valuable conversation to have. I have a problem with wholesale cutting just for the sake of cutting.
but we aren't cutting "just to cut", we need to cut because we're broke. The only time we've ever come close to a balanced budget was through actual cuts in defense and welfare spending, along with a tax increase during an economic boom.
We'll never get close to getting rid of the deficit without having actual cuts. #1. We can't raise taxes when the economy is staggering along at 1% growth and....
#2. We're in a hole, not because of tax cuts, but because of over-spending. Bush, with help from both parties, increased federal spending by 108% in 8 short years. We can't afford that.
410 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:03am |
re: #401 RogueOne
Where are my shoes?
No, Rogue, you're not getting it. Any number 'across the board' is dumb. It's the 'across the board' part that's really stupid. The number itself doesn't matter. It's what the spending is actually on, and what it actually achieves, that need to be figured out.
If the money is being spent redundantly, as is a lot of it, then it's perfectly fine to cut. Examples of this: a Federal agency doing inspections of something that has already been inspected by a state agency with higher standards than the federal agency. That goes on all the time. It's dumb. Cut that out.
If the money is being spent with no expected outcome-- wishful spending-- then it needs to be examined. Spending money to 'raise awareness' always bugs me. Spend the money on fixing the problem and raising awareness at the same time.
If the money is being spent and achieving results, then don't fucking cut it. If your fire inspectors are doing a good job of preventing fires, if your health inspectors are doing a good job on cutting down on the botulism outbreaks, then you can look for ways to make it more efficient, but simply cutting spending isn't going to achieve that. It'll most likely just overburden the remaining workers, causing standards to slip, and costs to rise elsewhere in the system as more fires break out, botulism incidents rise, etc.
Do you seriously not understand this?
411 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:32am |
re: #407 Cannadian Club Akbar
Wrong. It's= it is.
Thats correct
It's = it is,,, which does NOT fit into the sentence
who was calling for IT IS complete disbandment.
it does fit into
who was calling for its complete disbandment.
Make that an espresso!!
413 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:36:50am |
re: #409 RogueOne
but we aren't cutting "just to cut", we need to cut because we're broke. The only time we've ever come close to a balanced budget was through actual cuts in defense and welfare spending, along with a tax increase during an economic boom.
We'll never get close to getting rid of the deficit without having actual cuts. #1. We can't raise taxes when the economy is staggering along at 1% growth and...
#2. We're in a hole, not because of tax cuts, but because of over-spending. Bush, with help from both parties, increased federal spending by 108% in 8 short years. We can't afford that.
Again, who's going to bell the cat. We can all agree that there are programs that can be cut, but when it comes to which programs, that's when the fighting starts.
414 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:38:52am |
re: #411 sattv4u2
Thats correct
It's = it is,,, which does NOT fit into the sentencewho was calling for IT IS complete disbandment.
it does fit into
who was calling for its complete disbandment.
Make that an espresso!!
Good lord...grammar police first thing in the morning. Think I'll go look for my car keys and go get another cup of coffee. BTW, McDonald's coffee has improved immeasurably. It used to be undrinkable but is now actually fairly decent.
415 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:38:57am |
re: #413 PT Barnum
Again, who's going to bell the cat. We can all agree that there are programs that can be cut, but when it comes to which programs, that's when the fighting starts.
Eggs-ackly.
Then what happens, more often than not, is that no programs are cut, but the number of employees is reduced (employee costs being one of biggest costs in any governmental agency budget), and then you get reduced levels of service, exhausted employees, pissed off public because the lines are long - it's a mess.
416 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:40:06am |
re: #410 Obdicut
I seriously understand that some people will oppose cuts to the fed budget and they'll use whatever rationale they can come up with to justify the continual growth of government.
Since there will always be people who will refuse to compromise and refuse to deal honestly with the budget I say take it out of the politico's and big government types hands and enforce an across the board cut. They can set up some lame-ass commission to blame it on that way none of our esteemed elected officials, or parties, will have to take the blame.
417 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:40:39am |
re: #414 PT Barnum
Good lord...grammar police first thing in the morning. Think I'll go look for my car keys and go get another cup of coffee. BTW, McDonald's coffee has improved immeasurably. It used to be undrinkable but is now actually fairly decent.
And here I was, defending your correction!!
Ah well ,, while you're at Mickey D's, can you get me a ,, ummm,, errr,, nevahmind,, nothing there appeals to me!
418 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:41:46am |
re: #395 Obdicut
Cutting across the board by 20% is always going to be a really dumb suggestion, Rogue. Reine can explain to you why a lot better than I can.
Mmm, Jamaican food here I come.
Jamaican food for breakfast? Yowza.
419 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:42:31am |
re: #418 Aceofwhat?
Jamaican food for breakfast? Yowza.
Wha ,,, you think the whole island waits till noon to eat !?!?!?!
420 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:42:43am |
re: #413 PT Barnum
Again, who's going to bell the cat. We can all agree that there are programs that can be cut, but when it comes to which programs, that's when the fighting starts.
That's why I suggested an across the board cut. No one is ever going to agree. We'll be hearing "the (pick your party) want your grandma to die of starvation!" , "The (pick your party) want us to be overrun by a south american army!", and "The (pick your party) wants you to DIE!" for years while they try to sort it out and never really get anywhere. Rip the bandaid off and get it over with.
421 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:43:43am |
re: #416 RogueOne
I seriously understand that some people will oppose cuts to the fed budget and they'll use whatever rationale they can come up with to justify the continual growth of government.
Since there will always be people who will refuse to compromise and refuse to deal honestly with the budget I say take it out of the politico's and big government types hands and enforce an across the board cut. They can set up some lame-ass commission to blame it on that way none of our esteemed elected officials, or parties, will have to take the blame.
Our governor here did just that, did a 10% cut across the board. By the way, he's a Democrat. The GOP folks in the house and senate screamed bloody murder.
422 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:44:14am |
re: #419 sattv4u2
Wha ,,, you think the whole island waits till noon to eat !?!?!?!
good point...my work-from-home Mondays play with my eating schedule.
423 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:44:15am |
re: #417 sattv4u2
And here I was, defending your correction!!
Ah well ,, while you're at Mickey D's, can you get me a ,, ummm,, errr,, nevahmind,, nothing there appeals to me!
I actually appreciated your defense. I just didn't think it was worth more than one post :)
424 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:21am |
re: #421 PT Barnum
Our governor here did just that, did a 10% cut across the board. By the way, he's a Democrat. The GOP folks in the house and senate screamed bloody murder.
Which Gov?
426 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:38am |
re: #423 PT Barnum
I actually appreciated your defense. I just didn't think it was worth more than one post :)
ahh , I'm just screwin with CCA
((an ongoing thing with us))
427 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:45:58am |
428 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:46:42am |
429 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:46:57am |
430 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:47:16am |
re: #425 PT Barnum
Culver
I didn't know you were from Iowa, or if I did I had forgotten. My condolences./
My in-laws live in Iowa, just outside the SD border.
431 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:48:26am |
A sad end to a (once) great line of American Autos
Pontiac, maker of muscle cars, ends after 84 years
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
432 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:48:40am |
re: #429 sattv4u2
You have something against public displays of affection!?!?
Can't we just spoon? I am out for a bit.
433 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:49:15am |
BRB, I have to go interface with the local county officials. My guess is this is going to take awhile.
Remind me to tell you folks about the local county precinct leader throwing a fit with one of my employees about a political sign in his yard this weekend. All dem signs but one and the guy pulls over to go complain about the one R sign in the yard.
434 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:49:25am |
435 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:51:12am |
re: #430 RogueOne
I didn't know you were from Iowa, or if I did I had forgotten. My condolences./
My in-laws live in Iowa, just outside the SD border.
I feel sorry for anybody who doesn't live here. The air is clean (except when you drive by the hog confinements) and the crime rate is low, and people are pretty damned friendly and helpful. Now Missouri, or Minnesota, on the other hand.
436 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:51:23am |
re: #422 Aceofwhat?
good point...my work-from-home Mondays play with my eating schedule.
I'm working from home today also..Don't feel well today
437 | Nervous Norvous Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:51:59am |
re: #430 RogueOne
I didn't know you were from Iowa, or if I did I had forgotten. My condolences./
My in-laws live in Iowa, just outside the SD border.
Where abouts? I lived in Rock Rapids and Sioux City both for a while.
439 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:52:39am |
re: #431 sattv4u2
A sad end to a (once) great line of American Autos
Pontiac, maker of muscle cars, ends after 84 years
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
RIP Pontiac. I have owned some great Grand Prix's.
440 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:54:59am |
Oh, gawd.
Political phone calls starting up already today.
I think I shall turn off my phone for the rest of the day.
441 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:56:10am |
re: #436 HoosierHoops
I'm working from home today also..Don't feel well today
sorry about that. yeah, i just started working again but it's out of state, so i travel from Tues-Fri.
442 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 7:59:45am |
re: #416 RogueOne
I seriously understand that some people will oppose cuts to the fed budget and they'll use whatever rationale they can come up with to justify the continual growth of government.
Yes, I admit: I want to grow government until it smothers all private incentive us and dominates every aspect of our lives. That is why I voted for Obama in 2008 and will continue to vote for anyone who promises me more government and less personal responsibility.
/
443 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:02:05am |
re: #442 ralphieboy
Yes, I admit: I want to grow government until it smothers all private incentive us and dominates every aspect of our lives. That is why I voted for Obama in 2008 and will continue to vote for anyone who promises me more government and less personal responsibility.
/
Sarc aside, lots of people do!
446 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:11:14am |
re: #444 ralphieboy
And Medicaid. Yet, that's one of the biggest components of spending at the state level in places like NY - and the state simply cannot afford its current levels of funding. Yet, if it tries to reduce the spending, hospitals and unions will both proclaim that it will kill people because hospitals will close, health care workers will be thrown out of work, and worse.
Yet, the system in NY is broken and bears little relation to what the state can afford and how it can achieve a goal of health care support.
447 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:13:04am |
re: #446 lawhawk
And Medicaid. Yet, that's one of the biggest components of spending at the state level in places like NY - and the state simply cannot afford its current levels of funding. Yet, if it tries to reduce the spending, hospitals and unions will both proclaim that it will kill people because hospitals will close, health care workers will be thrown out of work, and worse.
Yet, the system in NY is broken and bears little relation to what the state can afford and how it can achieve a goal of health care support.
and all that is despite NY's tremendous tax burden...
448 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:14:04am |
re: #441 Aceofwhat?
sorry about that. yeah, i just started working again but it's out of state, so i travel from Tues-Fri.
Well, that's not easy!
449 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:17:59am |
re: #446 lawhawk
And Medicaid. Yet, that's one of the biggest components of spending at the state level in places like NY - and the state simply cannot afford its current levels of funding.
Why not? Could they afford it if they raised taxes?
It seems to me that the discussion about healthcare (and indeed all similar things such as education, public infrastructure, fire protection etc.) should go like this:
- What kind of service/coverage do we want/is acceptable?
- How much does it cost to provide it?
- How do we maximize utility by balancing spending on various items?
Maybe the answer is to raise taxes and pay for more healthcare and better roads? It seems that there is an unspoken assumption in your "the state can't afford it" claim, which is that state revenues remain constant. This is not necessarily the case.
450 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:18:40am |
re: #448 reine.de.tout
Well, that's not easy!
It's not bad. I'm actually a bit sheepish about the whole thing...unemployment is at record highs and i barely had time to catch my breath before i fell into another job again.
And only being gone 3 nights per week, especially during school months, isn't bad.
451 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:19:08am |
re: #449 iossarian
Why not? Could they afford it if they raised taxes?
It seems to me that the discussion about healthcare (and indeed all similar things such as education, public infrastructure, fire protection etc.) should go like this:
- What kind of service/coverage do we want/is acceptable?
- How much does it cost to provide it?
- How do we maximize utility by balancing spending on various items?Maybe the answer is to raise taxes and pay for more healthcare and better roads? It seems that there is an unspoken assumption in your "the state can't afford it" claim, which is that state revenues remain constant. This is not necessarily the case.
raise taxes in NY?? seriously?
452 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:19:20am |
re: #443 sattv4u2
Sarc aside, lots of people do!
I confess, I vote Democratic because I can't be bothered to look after myself.
///
453 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:20:34am |
re: #451 Aceofwhat?
raise taxes in NY?? seriously?
Why not?
Presumably the reason is that there are a bunch of bond traders who would get all upset if someone took their precious money away. Poor little darlings.
454 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:27:12am |
re: #453 iossarian
Why not?
Presumably the reason is that there are a bunch of bond traders who would get all upset if someone took their precious money away. Poor little darlings.
you know, the funny thing about states is that they're different. and we can observe said differences in an attempt to learn things.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
455 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:27:21am |
re: #449 iossarian
In NY, the state budget is highly dependent on Wall Street - aka the rich. When Wall Street falters, the state's revenues drop off a cliff. It's a problem duplicated in NYC, which has its own tax layered on top of the state rates.
So, when you say that the rich can afford to absorb higher taxes, we've seen what happens when they don't. You get multibillion dollar deficits meaning that everyone has to pay more. When times are flush, the state spent like a drunken sailor. It got worse when it was abundantly clear that revenues were dropping on Wall Street. That accelerated the deficits.
NY tops spending on law enforcement, education, and health care (when you look at per capita levels, you'd find NY at or near the top of the list). You would think that critical spending like for health, law enforcement and education would result in high quality, and yet that isn't exactly the case. Education dollars don't find their way into the classrooms, and instead into bureaucracies. Law enforcement has done more with less - dealing with ongoing terror threats, with the same or fewer cops by shifting desk jobs to civilians. Infrastructure is falling apart around the state, and the public authorities that run much of the infrastructure aren't nearly as transparent as they should be and can't contain their costs either.
Health outcomes - like life expectancy aren't as high as they should be.
With education, the focus is on putting all kinds of technologies into classrooms, and yet countries that outperform the US on diagnostic testing provide little technology in the classroom. Instead of outfitting classrooms with computers, focus on spending it on teachers who can actually teach. Gee-wiz technology has to be replaced every couple of years, and that's a burden that the schools can't afford. It's one thing to have computer labs with top of the line computer systems, but it isn't necessary for every classroom to be so equipped.
Then, you've got teachers jumping through hoops to institute curriculum changes every couple of years for the heck of it rather than going with tried-and-true education methods that demand student performance and accountability while learning concepts that they will need to use and develop throughout their life.
456 | Slap Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:28:58am |
re: #437 PT Barnum
Where abouts? I lived in Rock Rapids and Sioux City both for a while.
When I lived in Omaha for a few years, I was informed that Iowa actually stood for "idiots out wandering around".
Nebraska humor, I guess.
457 | Slap Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:30:56am |
re: #440 reine.de.tout
This time of year, I'm VERY thankful for Caller ID.....
458 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:31:34am |
I have a job interview on Wednesday!
Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?
I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"
459 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:31:37am |
re: #453 iossarian
Why not?
Presumably the reason is that there are a bunch of bond traders who would get all upset if someone took their precious money away. Poor little darlings.
also required reading for "let's just tax the rich people" types: Mankiw.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
460 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:32:59am |
re: #455 lawhawk
Well, most of your post is saying that money needs to be spent differently, not that it shouldn't be spent.
I've said it before on here regarding education - the main cause of increasing bureaucracy is that voters tend to increasingly demand "accountability", which essentially means more form fillers filling in forms. I think a balance between accountability and a focus on the essentials is what is needed.
Anyway, my beef was with the claim that the state "can't afford" something, which
I don't think is true when overall tax rates are still significantly lower than, e.g., Europe, even in NY.
461 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:34:54am |
re: #458 Alouette
I have a job interview on Wednesday!
Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?
I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"
What sort of tough questions do you expect?
(worked 30 years in HR).
462 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:34:57am |
re: #456 Slap
When I lived in Omaha for a few years, I was informed that Iowa actually stood for "idiots out wandering around".
Nebraska humor, I guess.
I learned that when i found out (this is ~10 years ago) that a group of employees had developed that term for one of my then-fellow supervisors.
1. It's never good when that's a nickname for a supervisor.
2. It's even worse when the employees are right.
I haven't often worked behind the scenes to get a co-worker fired, but i may have let Iowa throw herself under the bus...
463 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:35:00am |
re: #459 Aceofwhat?
That article makes me chuckle, because I don't really think America is much affected by whether Mr. Mankiw decides to give some extra lectures to business conferences in Aspen, or not.
In fact, given that he was an advisor to Bush, we might all be better off if he just kept his ideas to himself for a few years.
464 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:35:48am |
re: #458 Alouette
I have a job interview on Wednesday!
Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?
I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"
would love to help. what's a tough question that you expect to receive?
and congrats on the interview!!
465 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:36:08am |
re: #458 Alouette
I suggest doing a lot of research on the company and showing a lot of awareness of what they're up to. Questions can help you demonstrate that depth of knowledge. That's one of the most-overlooked things by interviewees.
Good luck!
466 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:36:56am |
The awesome double-whammy effect of taxing the rich:
A) Increased revenues to pay for healthcare
B) Right-wing blowhards "go Galt" and we never hear from them again
467 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:38:49am |
re: #437 PT Barnum
Where abouts? I lived in Rock Rapids and Sioux City both for a while.
I met my wife in Sioux City, what a dirt hole!
468 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:29am |
re: #442 ralphieboy
Yes, I admit: I want to grow government until it smothers all private incentive us and dominates every aspect of our lives. That is why I voted for Obama in 2008 and will continue to vote for anyone who promises me more government and less personal responsibility.
/
I KNEW it! I could smell it on you.
469 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:42am |
re: #459 Aceofwhat?
There was a time, back in the age of national economies and before widespread globalization, when we might expect a tax cut for corporations and high earners to be reinvested in domestic job creation.
Now investment follows the path of highest returns, and if those higher returns are to be had by investing in jobs abroad, that's where the money goes.
470 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:39:50am |
re: #463 iossarian
That article makes me chuckle, because I don't really think America is much affected by whether Mr. Mankiw decides to give some extra lectures to business conferences in Aspen, or not.
In fact, given that he was an advisor to Bush, we might all be better off if he just kept his ideas to himself for a few years.
if that's all that you got out of the article, you might want to think about recusing yourself from some of our more wonkish economic discussions.
because it wasn't about Mankiw.
(and clearly you have no idea who Mankiw is. let me guess...you like to think of yourself as a 'fact-based' democrat, except when we're discussing subjects you know nothing about)
472 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:40:01am |
re: #460 iossarian
Part of it is that spending priorities have to be changed, but part of it is reducing spending. NYers have continued moving out of the state because of the tax burden to other states with lesser burdens because they can't deal with the existing tax burden.
Forbes has a great tool to see where and how people are moving around the country, and there's a clear indication that people in high tax states are moving to lower tax burden states.
473 | Taqyia2Me Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:40:16am |
More of that three letter word would be an immense help:
J-O-B-S!
474 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:42:05am |
re: #458 Alouette
I have a job interview on Wednesday!
Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?
I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"
OK, well.
There are some questions that sound odd, but that are designed to elicit information not obvious to you. For instance, questions such as: What job did you like best? What job did you like least? - are designed to find out from you what sort of ambience you are most comfortable working in (I really hated that job as a receptionist! The phone ringing drove me crazy! - probably means they won't hire you for a job requiring a lot of client or public contact).
Anyhoo - answer the questions honestly, but try to put yourself in the best possible light with all of them. If you describe the job you liked least, describe why (My least favorite job was receptionist. People called with problems and I wanted to help them, but had to transfer the call, which I know people hate! I tried to let them know that call transfers would be minimal.)
475 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:42:21am |
re: #458 Alouette
I have a job interview on Wednesday!
Any suggestions on how to answer the tough questions?
I think I'm going to write out a list of possible questions and answers, also some questions for when they ask "do you have any questions for us?" and a heartfelt speech on "why I am the best person for this job"
I got caught on a question once... What kind of trade magizines do you read? If you are applying for a logistics job for instance....know the name of some logistics mags..have a few quotes handy to drop..
Man that question still pisses me off...
476 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:42:33am |
re: #469 ralphieboy
There was a time, back in the age of national economies and before widespread globalization, when we might expect a tax cut for corporations and high earners to be reinvested in domestic job creation.
Now investment follows the path of highest returns, and if those higher returns are to be had by investing in jobs abroad, that's where the money goes.
no one here is saying that taxes should just be cut and cut and cut because it will magically make money grow on trees.
i am saying that when an entity (in this case, high-earners) is particularly tax-sensitive, neither can we tax and tax and tax because it will magically make money grow on trees, despite the earnest wishes of some of my fellow lizards.
477 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:44:00am |
re: #475 HoosierHoops
I got caught on a question once... What kind of trade magizines do you read? If you are applying for a logistics job for instance...know the name of some logistics mags..have a few quotes handy to drop..
Man that question still pisses me off...
oh, that's a tricksy one.
478 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:44:21am |
re: #466 iossarian
The thing is, the language we use to discuss taxation is all wrong. We don't tax the rich. We tax high incomes. We don't tax wealth at all.
And while we talk about income taxes, we need to simultaneously talk about capital gains taxes. Right now, as Buffet has pointed out, many of those with incredibly high incomes pay a lower amount of taxation on their income than their secretaries do.
Taxation is not about fairness, it is not about justice, it is not about anything high-falutin'. Taxation should be about doing the most good with the least harm.
We have experienced a large growth in income disparity in this nation over the past decades. Even Alan Greenspan has seen it as an incredibly big problem. I'm not saying it's a problem in terms of social justice, or ethics, or fairness, but a problem of system engineering; capitalism will not continue to work if wealth becomes stratified, because capital is, in capitalism, a barrier to entry.
This is a really, really excellent ten part series that looks at the income disparity, and soberly, deeply analyzes possible causes and outcomes.
[Link: www.slate.com...]
I urge everyone to read it.
479 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:45:34am |
re: #470 Aceofwhat?
if that's all that you got out of the article, you might want to think about recusing yourself from some of our more wonkish economic discussions.
because it wasn't about Mankiw.
Um, from the article, where Mankiw discusses the "bottom line":
HERE’S the bottom line: Without any taxes, accepting that editor’s assignment would have yielded my children an extra $10,000. With taxes, it yields only $1,000. In effect, once the entire tax system is taken into account, my family’s marginal tax rate is about 90 percent. Is it any wonder that I turn down most of the money-making opportunities I am offered?
Big yourself up with the "wonkishness". I read the above as a rich right-winger whining about how taxes are killing his incentive to "work".
The reality is that a progressive taxation system will mean that high-income individuals are taxed fairly heavily on incremental income. I am aware of this effect myself (though I am not as well-rewarded as Mankiw).
This is regarded as fair by people like myself, because A) I have benefited immensely from society through my education and my opportunity to earn and B) there are lots of people who, through no fault of their own (e.g., disability) do not have the same opportunity to provide for themselves.
But please, blow me away with your wonkish power of reasoning some more!
480 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:45:48am |
re: #478 Obdicut
Taxation is not about fairness, it is not about justice, it is not about anything high-falutin'. Taxation should be about doing the most good with the least harm.
This^eleventy.
If everyone rallied around the principle Obdi outlined above, we'd take a quantum leap forward in our treatment of the issue.
481 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:47:25am |
re: #456 Slap
When I lived in Omaha for a few years, I was informed that Iowa actually stood for "idiots out wandering around".
Nebraska humor, I guess.
I have a friend who just took a position with his corporate office in Omaha. I warned him. It's a springboard job for a better position so he's hoping not to have to stay very long. The good part of it is there's a White Castle in Omaha, the only one in about a 700 mile radius.
482 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:48:04am |
re: #480 Aceofwhat?
This^eleventy.
If everyone rallied around the principle Obdi outlined above, we'd take a quantum leap forward in our treatment of the issue.
Ah, but without the notion of "fairness", how can you define "the most amount of good with the least harm"?
You can't just sweep your ethics under the carpet (though many economists would like to).
483 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:49:26am |
re: #479 iossarian
Um, from the article, where Mankiw discusses the "bottom line":
Big yourself up with the "wonkishness". I read the above as a rich right-winger whining about how taxes are killing his incentive to "work".
The reality is that a progressive taxation system will mean that high-income individuals are taxed fairly heavily on incremental income. I am aware of this effect myself (though I am not as well-rewarded as Mankiw).
This is regarded as fair by people like myself, because A) I have benefited immensely from society through my education and my opportunity to earn and B) there are lots of people who, through no fault of their own (e.g., disability) do not have the same opportunity to provide for themselves.
But please, blow me away with your wonkish power of reasoning some more!
Or, someday, you may need treatment from a highly trained surgeon, or your child may need braces from the local orthodontist. Like me, these individuals respond to incentives. (Indeed, some studies report that high-income taxpayers are particularly responsive to taxes.) As they face higher tax rates, their services will be in shorter supply.
Here's the paper that Mankiw references:
We find that the overall elasticity of taxable income is approximately 0.4; the elasticity of real income, not including tax preferences, is much lower. We also estimate small income effects on tax changes on reported income, implying that the compensated and uncompensated elasticities of taxable income are very similar. We estimate that this overall elasticity is primarily due to a very elastic response of taxable income for taxpayers who have incomes above $100,000 per year, who have an elasticity of 0.57, while for those with incomes below $100,000 per year the elasticity is less than one-third as large. Moreover, high income taxpayers who itemize are particularly responsive to taxation.
484 | insert name here Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:50:30am |
Again, not germane (see #324 re: reine.de.tout), but some of these comments would make great free verse...
re: #469 ralphieboy
There was a time,
back in the age of national economies
and before widespread globalization,
when we might expect a tax cut
for corporations and high earners
to be reinvested in domestic job creation.Now investment follows
the path of highest returns,
and if those higher returns are to be had
by investing
in jobs abroad,
that's where the money goes.
485 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:50:50am |
re: #483 Aceofwhat?
Yes, there are no orthodontists in Denmark, what with their cripplingly high rates of taxation. /
Seriously. Right-wing economist expresses right-wing view of taxation policy. Film at 11.
486 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:53:03am |
re: #482 iossarian
Ah, but without the notion of "fairness", how can you define "the most amount of good with the least harm"?
You can't just sweep your ethics under the carpet (though many economists would like to).
"The most revenue with the least harm" = maximizing current and future earnings.
"Good" in that sentence is a synonym for "revenue", not "just" or "ethical".
Yeesh.
487 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:53:16am |
re: #482 iossarian
Hell, even if we just define it in terms of "The Wealth of Nations", we'll be ahead of where we were before.
One very good point that the article makes is that the share of corporate profits for financial companies rose from about 10% of all corporate profits to about 40%. This represents the ever-increasing abstractness of the financial industry, as can easily be seen in this most recent meltdown. That increase in profits does not represent any sort of increase in actual 'wealth' for the nation. It doesn't represent new knowledge, new science, new technology, new physical assets, but a way of reordering them that gives them a higher value-- which is true until the market collapses.
Money is a great thing and a terrible thing all at the same time-- the money made from selling a pack of cigarettes is the same as the money made from selling a bunch of apples. The apples, however, are a net good, and the cigarettes are a net loss, in terms of the wealth of the nation. Money is a store not of true value, but of perceived value.
488 | insert name here Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:53:28am |
(By the way, my apologies for the interruption to the great thread of comments, but for some weird reason, some of them are really singing this morning).
489 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:54:41am |
re: #486 Aceofwhat?
"The most revenue with the least harm" = maximizing current and future earnings.
"Good" in that sentence is a synonym for "revenue", not "just" or "ethical".
Yeesh.
Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?
Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.
490 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:55:23am |
re: #485 iossarian
Yes, there are no orthodontists in Denmark, what with their cripplingly high rates of taxation. /
Seriously. Right-wing economist expresses right-wing view of taxation policy. Film at 11.
Seriously. Left-wing purports to like 'data' until it falls outside of their world view.
And Mankiw is a die-hard supporter of a pigovian carbon solution. yeah. real wingnut there.
9_9
491 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:55:56am |
re: #484 insert name here
I was one of those nerds who used to memorize poetry. I like to think that it has had a positive effect on the way I express myself.
492 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:56:11am |
re: #488 insert name here
No apology necessary
Breaking for poetry seems
A lyrical miner's canary
To let us know, by its voice
That for words, we're spoiled by choice
And all songs turn to dreams.
493 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:57:48am |
re: #489 iossarian
Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?
Note, the total current revenue is the same in both cases.
one of those is far less sustainable, which i highlighted by fixing your post. thus the emphasis on future benefits and not just a letstaxthebastards tunnel-vision approach to maximizing revenue today.
494 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:57:56am |
Way to go Brazil:
Ex-guerrilla to be Brazil's first female president
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
SAO PAULO – A former Marxist guerrilla who was tortured and imprisoned during Brazil's long dictatorship was elected Sunday as president of Latin America's biggest nation, a country in the midst of an economic and political rise.
.....
In 1967, as a 19-year-old economics student, she joined a militant political group opposing the dictatorship. For three years she helped lead guerrilla organizations, instructed comrades on Marxist theory and wrote for an underground newspaper.Rousseff denies carrying out any acts of violence during this period, says she opposed such action and notes she was never accused by the military regime of violent acts.
After three years underground, Rousseff was captured in 1970 by Brazil's military police and was considered a big enough catch that a military prosecutor labeled her the "Joan of Arc" of the guerrilla movement.
She was tossed into the Tiradentes prison where she was submitted to brutal torture.
.......
Rousseff says her political thinking has evolved drastically — from Marxism to pragmatic capitalism — but she remains proud of her radical roots."We fought and participated in a dream to build a better Brazil," she said in an interview published in the newspaper Folha de S. Paulo in 2005, one of the rare times she has spoken in detail about her militancy and torture endured.
"We learned a lot. We did a lot of nonsense, but that is not what characterizes us. What characterizes us is to have dared to want a better country."
495 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:58:47am |
re: #490 Aceofwhat?
Mankiw's essay is not impressive. He's dishonestly applying the estate tax to his own income, which is really ridiculous; he's combining two entirely separate arguments at once-- the utility of the estate tax and the utility of all income taxes-- and doing them both a disservice by doing so.
496 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:59:21am |
re: #490 Aceofwhat?
Seriously. Left-wing purports to like 'data' until it falls outside of their world view.
And Mankiw is a die-hard supporter of a pigovian carbon solution. yeah. real wingnut there.
9_9
I said Mankiw was a right-winger, I didn't say he was a crazy. He's clearly intelligent (though that doesn't mean that I would agree with his ethics).
What "data" am I arguing with? I accept that taxing rich people highly will mean they have less incentive to perform additional work. What I am saying is that this is no big loss to society, hence my comment about the fact that high-tax countries such as Denmark seem to be doing OK (they are not disintegrating due to lack of orthodontistry).
497 | reine.de.tout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 8:59:58am |
re: #489 iossarian
Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?
Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.
People's income isn't static.
There have been times in my life when I worked at minimum wage.
But was making much more than min when I retired.
Now I may get hired for a part-time job at less than I made when I retired, all the way back down to min again.
498 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:01:00am |
re: #489 iossarian
Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?
Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.
oh, and a system where everyone makes $2 a day isn't a fair system either.
499 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:01:13am |
re: #493 Aceofwhat?
one of those is far less sustainable, which i highlighted by fixing your post. thus the emphasis on future benefits and not just a letstaxthebastards tunnel-vision approach to maximizing revenue today.
Which is less sustainable?
BTW, thanks for characterizing my view as being based on envy. As implied above, I am actually advocating that my own tax rate be raised.
500 | iossarian Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:02:03am |
re: #498 Aceofwhat?
oh, and a system where everyone makes $2 a day isn't a fair system either.
Why not? I didn't tell you anything else about the country, just what people earned?
Without knowing anything else about the country, is it possible to make a judgement regarding fairness?
502 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:04:58am |
re: #495 Obdicut
Mankiw's essay is not impressive. He's dishonestly applying the estate tax to his own income, which is really ridiculous; he's combining two entirely separate arguments at once-- the utility of the estate tax and the utility of all income taxes-- and doing them both a disservice by doing so.
it was too simplistic an essay to be impressive, but it's a simple point: there is no money tree called "the rich" that we can simply shake harder in order to receive more mannah.
this is from Mankiw's blog-
The Stones are famously tax-averse. I broach the subject with Keith [Richards] in Camp X-Ray, as he calls his backstage lair. There is incense in the air and Ronnie Wood drifts in and out--it is, in other words, a perfect venue for such a discussion. "The whole business thing is predicated a lot on the tax laws," says Keith, Marlboro in one hand, vodka and juice in the other. "It's why we rehearse in Canada and not in the U.S. A lot of our astute moves have been basically keeping up with tax laws, where to go, where not to put it. Whether to sit on it or not. We left England because we'd be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out. No taxes at all. I don't want to screw anybody out of anything, least of all the governments that I work with. We put 30% in holding until we sort it out." No wonder Keith chooses to live not in London, or even New York City, but in Weston, Conn.
503 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:05:52am |
re: #500 iossarian
Why not? I didn't tell you anything else about the country, just what people earned?
Without knowing anything else about the country, is it possible to make a judgement regarding fairness?
if you know something about economics...yes.
i will consider you impressed with my wonkishness;)
lunchtime- bbl
504 | Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:06:35am |
re: #499 iossarian
Which is less sustainable?
BTW, thanks for characterizing my view as being based on envy. As implied above, I am actually advocating that my own tax rate be raised.
in no way did i characterize your view as being based on envy. where in the hell did you get that from?
505 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:08:54am |
re: #489 iossarian
Which is more fair: a country in which 99 people subsist on a dollar a day and one person makes $101 every day, or a country in which everyone makes $2 a day?
Note, the total revenue is the same in both cases.
This sort of disparity between concentration of wealth and the public good reached its extreme during the Highland Clearances of the early 1800's, during which landlords were able to generate more revenue from raising sheep on their lands than by renting it out to tenant farmers.
Whole stretches of the Highlands were emptied of population. Later, when the British Empire was looking for soldiers to defend it, a Highlander's response was quoted as "Since they prefer sheep to people, let them get sheep to defend them!"
506 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:10:16am |
re: #487 Obdicut
I also noticed (other reading) how much of that upper 1% wealth was fictitious capitol. The air in the bubble. Investing is derivatives, securities on foolish mortgages and overvalued "blue chip" stocks. "They" lost money, we lost jobs and homes.
As I read past part one, I'd bring this up, in hopes it is addressed. The apples vs cigarettes thing reminded me... Would I want to have seen the great American dot com entrepreneurs taxed more heavily? Maybe not. Would I have wanted to tax Wall streeters incomes more heavily? Sure, because I try to figure in the value of the entrepreneurial rich as better for the economy than the offshore mfr or fictitious capital trader.
507 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:14:28am |
re: #502 Aceofwhat?
it was too simplistic an essay to be impressive, but it's a simple point: there is no money tree called "the rich" that we can simply shake harder in order to receive more mannah.
Sure. But I don't know anyone who thinks that there is, nor is that a useful way of framing the debate. And really, the disservice done by a lax treatment of the most important issue-- the estate tax-- makes that essay, to me, reprehensibly disingenuous.
508 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:17:37am |
re: #506 Rightwingconspirator
And then we enter the murky waters of defining income differently when it comes from different sources, which can quickly lead to a byzantine tax code.
I think most of the Wall Street stuff should be handled through regulation before the fact, rather than attempts to tax the fictitious monies; not allowing as much fictional money to be produced.
People accuse the government of just printing money, but in many ways, Wall Street has been far more responsible than the government for that.
509 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:22:09am |
re: #508 Obdicut
People accuse the government of just printing money, but in many ways, Wall Street has been far more responsible than the government for that.
*High five*
510 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:32:51am |
re: #505 ralphieboy
That's an excellent example. The classic American one is the increased mechanization of industry. People are under the false impression that our manufacturing capacity and output has been on the decline. It hasn't. Our manufacturing sector is huge and strong. It has, however, hemmoraghed jobs as productivity-per-worker has skyrocketed. Many large chemical plants have just a handful of employees.
This gives the lie to the 'tax breaks create jobs' pablum that gets spread around so frequently. Many businesses succeed not by creating jobs, but eliminating them. Tax breaks may, in some industries, create jobs. In others, they may actively reward the destruction of jobs.
511 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:36:39am |
re: #510 Obdicut
Good points..Wish I understood economics more..It is so complex
512 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:37:34am |
re: #500 iossarian
Why not? I didn't tell you anything else about the country, just what people earned?
Without knowing anything else about the country, is it possible to make a judgment regarding fairness?
No. Which is why I didn't comment on the scenario earlier. Without data on the people's occupations, the nation's economic set-up, etc. it's too simple a situation to draw reasonable conclusions. About all it might really be testing is what conclusions commentators might be willing to project on it with the data lacking.
513 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:38:49am |
re: #511 HoosierHoops
Good points..Wish I understood economics more..It is so complex
Well, that's the most important part to understand. It's systems engineering, just like IT.
A lot of people treat economics the way that bad IT guys treat IT systems; they don't think about the way that it will evolve with use. They think once you set it up once it'll work perfectly forever.
514 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:39:30am |
re: #510 Obdicut
The manufacturing that did go offshore, is that not in fact a proof of mfg declines here? Steel, textiles, jewelry.... CFL's from China, motherboards from Taiwan. Or if that is an American companies facility are you still counting that as American mfg?
515 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:44:10am |
For those looking for some enlightening reading for the hectic holiday season: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy
516 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:48:21am |
re: #513 Obdicut
Well, that's the most important part to understand. It's systems engineering, just like IT.
A lot of people treat economics the way that bad IT guys treat IT systems; they don't think about the way that it will evolve with use. They think once you set it up once it'll work perfectly forever.
I liked the point you made about tax cuts. I don't think Companies hire people because they get a tax cut.. They hire the amount of people required to make a profit..If a thousand people are required to do the job then all a tax cut does is give them more profit..Why hire another 100 people when all they need is 1000? When the orders require another 100 people the company will hire them..
Does that make sense?
517 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:50:45am |
Michelle Obama Feeds Children ‘Dried Fruit’ at White House Halloween ‘Party’
....thousands of small children attended a White House Halloween veggie potluck, and it was probably the worst night of their young lives. There is overwhelming evidence that this so-called White House Halloween Rave was actually just Michelle Obama handing out bags of dried fruit. Dried fruit? (“Muslim Skittles”?)
518 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:52:28am |
re: #514 Rightwingconspirator
The manufacturing that did go offshore, is that not in fact a proof of mfg declines here? Steel, textiles, jewelry... CFL's from China, motherboards from Taiwan. Or if that is an American companies facility are you still counting that as American mfg?
No, the kind of manufacturing changed. But we still grew manufacturing capacity. We've definitely lost a lot of different kinds of manufacturing-- but we've grown even more. What we've lost is the jobs.
519 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:53:16am |
re: #516 HoosierHoops
I liked the point you made about tax cuts. I don't think Companies hire people because they get a tax cut.. They hire the amount of people required to make a profit..If a thousand people are required to do the job then all a tax cut does is give them more profit..Why hire another 100 people when all they need is 1000? When the orders require another 100 people the company will hire them..
Does that make sense?
ding ding ding.
a prime economic lesson that the allegedly smart people at the AEI, Heritage and the Chamber of Commerce never seemed to understand.........(or let on that they understand anyways).
520 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:53:26am |
re: #517 Killgore Trout
Michelle Obama Feeds Children ‘Dried Fruit’ at White House Halloween ‘Party’
Dried Fruit? I'd soap the WH windows or TP some trees..
/
521 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:55:11am |
re: #516 HoosierHoops
Exactly. Employees do not have high capital costs. There's a small amount of money invested in searching for and hiring a new employee, but if an employee is profitable, the company will fill that position.
It's similar to the price point that products are sold at; it's not production cost + x, (in almost all markets) it's the best price point for the market, where the calculus of number of people who will buy it meets the profit margin.
522 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:58:25am |
523 | Vambo Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:59:29am |
re: #459 Aceofwhat?
also required reading for "let's just tax the rich people" types: Mankiw.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
What a joke. Millions of people in this country don't get paid enough, and they still fucking work.
524 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:01:19am |
re: #522 Killgore Trout
How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?
[Video]
Heh.
LOL. They threatened to blow up the Fox News van and beat up a Fox reporter.
525 | Buck Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:03:15am |
re: #199 PT Barnum
Don't know if anyone has seen this, but this, to me, is incredibly racist
[Video]
There was a joke that was being told early in the GWB years.
George Bush falls into a coma, and wakes up 20 years later.
He has many questions about what has happened in the meanwhile, but is most concerned about what is happening in his country.
What is the current unemployment stats?
Oh, you will be pleased to know that unemployment is almost completely eradicated. Anyone who wants a job can get one.
How are we with foreign relations?
You will be happy to hear that we are friends with many of the countries we once thought of as enemies.
OK, I am just curios about the local economy. How much is a cup of coffee on Mainstreet USA?
Very reasonable, about 20 yen.
-----------------------------
Similar sort of cautionary tale, that yes could be thought of as racist.
Substitute in the video (or the joke) Russian references, or even Middle Eastern....It could just as easily be a Saudi Professor and "Saudi riyal"
Frankly Saturday Night Live did a similar sketch last year where the Chinese President felt Obama was screwing him by not being economically vigilant and lecturing China. Could have been thought of as racist.
526 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:04:42am |
re: #522 Killgore Trout
Me thinks interchangable blonde fox news model needs journalistic validation.
527 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:05:33am |
Another "suspicious" package shuts down highway. Good thing they didn't blow it up to find out what was in it:
528 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:05:59am |
re: #523 Vambo
What a joke. Millions of people in this country don't get paid enough, and they still fucking work.
Goes back to the "discussion" the other week that showed people had no clue as to how tiered tax brackets work.
529 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:06:41am |
re: #525 Buck
Um, yen?
Those are Japanese.
The Japanese are in a hell of a recession, and have been for awhile.
Did you mean yuan?
530 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:07:02am |
re: #524 Killgore Trout
LOL. They threatened to blow up the Fox News van and beat up a Fox reporter.
That was pretty funny KT...When you think about it..If you threaten to blow up the Fox news van why bother beating up the reporter? kind of *cough* overkill.. LOL
531 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:07:45am |
re: #528 wozzablog
Keith Richards: “We left England because we’d be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out.”
[Link: www.you.com.au...]
532 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:08:49am |
re: #527 RogueOne
Another "suspicious" package shuts down highway. Good thing they didn't blow it up to find out what was in it:
[Video]
So the bomb squad is afraid of kittens? I thought they had nerves of steel...
533 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:09:47am |
re: #531 RogueOne
The Stones are famously tax-averse. I broach the subject with Keith in Camp X-Ray, as he calls his backstage lair. There is incense in the air and Ronnie Wood drifts in and out--it is, in other words, a perfect venue for such a discussion. "The whole business thing is predicated a lot on the tax laws," says Keith, Marlboro in one hand, vodka and juice in the other. "It's why we rehearse in Canada and not in the U.S. A lot of our astute moves have been basically keeping up with tax laws, where to go, where not to put it. Whether to sit on it or not. We left England because we'd be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out. No taxes at all. I don't want to screw anybody out of anything, least of all the governments that I work with. We put 30% in holding until we sort it out." No wonder Keith chooses to live not in London, or even New York City, but in Weston, Conn.
534 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:10:24am |
re: #532 ralphieboy
So the bomb squad is afraid of kittens? I thought they had nerves of steel...
What a bunch of p***ies!
//
535 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:11:06am |
re: #531 RogueOne
Ireland exempts artists' royalties from taxation, which makes them very attractive for their musicians.
But according to the BBC, that could be coming to an end as Ireland is really suffering from the banking collapse.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
536 | Buck Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:11:16am |
re: #529 Obdicut
Um, yen?
Those are Japanese.
The Japanese are in a hell of a recession, and have been for awhile.
Did you mean yuan?
The joke was the joke 10 years ago.... That isn't the point. But thank you for find that nit to pick.
537 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:11:50am |
re: #516 HoosierHoops
It depends on the kind of tax credit you're talking about. Some states have manufacturing tax credits - if you invest in R&D or other items, then you get a credit based on the value expended.
Then there are enterprise zone credits - if you site a business in location covered by a zone, you get a credit. Operation of these programs varies across the country. Some require new jobs to be created in the zone and not merely shifting from some other location. Others aren't nearly as strict.
Then, there are actual jobs-related tax credits. These differ across the country as well, but they are generally to encourage businesses to increase employment by reducing the initial costs to hire. Many include provisions to require employment for a set period of time and disfavor churning to accept the credit.
There are variants on those credits as well - combining different aspects together. Some states do a better job policing the credits than others. Some credits do encourage businesses to carry on operations more than others - and some are more ripe for abuse.
538 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:14:25am |
re: #531 RogueOne
Keith Richards: “We left England because we’d be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out.”
[Link: www.you.com.au...]
You have to go back to the Stone's age.
The top rate of tax in the uk is only just going up to 50%.
Thats 50cents on the dollar.
It's been around 40% for the best part of the last decade.
540 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:18:15am |
re: #537 lawhawk
It depends on the kind of tax credit you're talking about. Some states have manufacturing tax credits - if you invest in R&D or other items, then you get a credit based on the value expended.
Then there are enterprise zone credits - if you site a business in location covered by a zone, you get a credit. Operation of these programs varies across the country. Some require new jobs to be created in the zone and not merely shifting from some other location. Others aren't nearly as strict.
Then, there are actual jobs-related tax credits. These differ across the country as well, but they are generally to encourage businesses to increase employment by reducing the initial costs to hire. Many include provisions to require employment for a set period of time and disfavor churning to accept the credit.
There are variants on those credits as well - combining different aspects together. Some states do a better job policing the credits than others. Some credits do encourage businesses to carry on operations more than others - and some are more ripe for abuse.
The Angel on my left shoulder just asked why I'd post anything about economics...I don't know anything about it...Probably why I'm off work today with a fuzzy head and upset tummy...The Angel on my right shoulder is laughing at me..I haven't even balanced a checkbook in my life..LOL
Hope today finds you well today Lawhawk I'm out of my league on this subject
541 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:18:21am |
re: #537 lawhawk
It depends on the kind of tax credit you're talking about. Some states have manufacturing tax credits - if you invest in R&D or other items, then you get a credit based on the value expended.
Then there are enterprise zone credits - if you site a business in location covered by a zone, you get a credit. Operation of these programs varies across the country. Some require new jobs to be created in the zone and not merely shifting from some other location. Others aren't nearly as strict.
Then, there are actual jobs-related tax credits. These differ across the country as well, but they are generally to encourage businesses to increase employment by reducing the initial costs to hire. Many include provisions to require employment for a set period of time and disfavor churning to accept the credit.
There are variants on those credits as well - combining different aspects together. Some states do a better job policing the credits than others. Some credits do encourage businesses to carry on operations more than others - and some are more ripe for abuse.
Depends on the facts on the ground - if you are offered a couple of thousand dollars to hire someone when you have no demand for your product - then the $18.000 salary you have to find outweighs the credit.
542 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:19:02am |
re: #538 wozzablog
You have to go back to the Stone's age.
The top rate of tax in the uk is only just going up to 50%.
Thats 50cents on the dollar.It's been around 40% for the best part of the last decade.
I think you mean 50 pence on the pound.
//
543 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:20:12am |
544 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:20:12am |
re: #542 rwdflynavy
I think you mean 50 pence on the pound.
//
Or two crowns and sixpence on the guinea...
545 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:21:08am |
546 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:00am |
re: #544 ralphieboy
Or two crowns and sixpence on the guinea...
How many shillings in a quid?
/Damn metric system is confusing
547 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:30am |
re: #546 Killgore Trout
How many shillings in a quid?
/Damn metric system is confusing
You just double it and add 30.
548 | Buck Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:42am |
re: #538 wozzablog
You have to go back to the Stone's age.
The top rate of tax in the uk is only just going up to 50%.
Thats 50cents on the dollar.It's been around 40% for the best part of the last decade.
It probably only felt like 98%
10% to Manager
10% to Lawyer
10% to Business Manager
20% to Alimony and various child support.
8% to property taxes on multiple houses and Apartments.
40% to taxes.
(I am just kidding around, so please don't correct the above numbers. I don't actually know the exact percentages, and feel I should be able to make a joke about it)
549 | Varek Raith Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:22:51am |
re: #546 Killgore Trout
How many shillings in a quid?
/Damn metric system is confusing
Two birds in the bush.
550 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:23:21am |
re: #548 Buck
It probably only felt like 98%
10% to Manager
10% to Lawyer
10% to Business Manager
20% to Alimony and various child support.
8% to property taxes on multiple houses and Apartments.
40% to taxes.(I am just kidding around, so please don't correct the above numbers. I don't actually know the exact percentages, and feel I should be able to make a joke about it)
it was 90% to the divorce lawyers.
551 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:23:27am |
re: #547 rwdflynavy
You just double it and add 30.
Does that work on Thursdays? what about leap year?
552 | Sionainn Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:23:51am |
re: #522 Killgore Trout
How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?
[Video]
Heh.
Damn, but those three are idiots.
553 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:24:13am |
re: #549 Varek Raith
Two birds in the bush.
thats the Guinea Fowl - which was twelve stoats, which was a dozen groats.....
554 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:24:38am |
re: #546 Killgore Trout
20 shillings to a quid, 21 shillings in a guinea but only 19 shillings in an Irish Pound
Five shillings is a crown.
555 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:24:38am |
Mish's has a post up going over some of the same things as this mornings thread:
Tax Avoidance by Google and Apple, Corporate Cash, Job Creation During Schumpeterian Depressions
[Link: globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...]
556 | Kragar Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:25:41am |
Rush was getting in his daily hour of hate pre-election today. Real Orwellian crap. Remember folks, your neighbors hate America and are waging war against you, but they're the one who are filled with hate and fear.
557 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:26:53am |
re: #555 RogueOne
Mish's has a post up going over some of the same things as this mornings thread:
Tax Avoidance by Google and Apple, Corporate Cash, Job Creation During Schumpeterian Depressions
[Link: globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...]
Reducing tax rates will not increase the tax income. It will simply give the companies a lower target to try and avoid.
558 | Gus Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:27:08am |
re: #522 Killgore Trout
How did Fox News cover this weekend's rally?
[Video]
Heh.
They're just repeating most of the right-wingnuts talking points in their usual bimbo style. They seem kind of bitter. Steven Crowder is a dork.
559 | Varek Raith Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:27:42am |
re: #557 wozzablog
Reducing tax rates will not increase the tax income. It will simply give the companies a lower target to try and avoid.
It's the tax rate's fault for me avoiding my taxes!!!
560 | allegro Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:27:56am |
re: #532 ralphieboy
So the bomb squad is afraid of kittens? I thought they had nerves of steel...
Heh, that's funny. Something that bomb squad specialist will not live down, I suspect.
A number of years ago I was doing a field surveynear Brownsville for an environmental impact study. I was looking specifically for jaguarundi signs, entirely focused on that task. I stepped on something that completely freaked me out momentarily. The landowner standing across the field said I suddenly shot about 3 feet into the air. What was it? Turned out to be a length of hose - one of those with the scaly kinda pattern. Up to that point I was fairly famous for my lack of fear of snakes. As I later argued, I still was unafraid of snakes (though highly respectful), but garden hoses are a whole 'nother thang.
To this day I am teased about that.
561 | Wozza Matter? Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:29:52am |
Catch you all in a few hours.
Have a match to play off.
562 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:30:44am |
re: #551 Killgore Trout
Does that work on Thursdays? what about leap year?
That's how Bob and Doug McKenzie taught me on the Great White North album. Metric, you just double it and add 30.
563 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:31:32am |
Mish also has an interesting piece here:
Cash Cow: Who has the Cash, Who has the Debt, by Sector and CompanyThere are a lot of claims by mainstream media regarding cash on the sidelines and corporate cash levels.
Except for a handful of isolated companies, predominantly technology, claims are far-fetched. This interactive script showing the top 50 companies in the US by market cap is proof.
[Link: globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...]
564 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:32:56am |
565 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:34:44am |
Okay I'm back to micro (sub micro?) economics.
My job.
BBL!
566 | Gus Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:35:51am |
re: #564 Killgore Trout
I got the same impression.
They're mostly pissed off that more people showed up to this rally (215,000 vs. 87,000) than Beck's. Steven Crowder always has a bug up his about something. That "Fox & Friends" always seems like something out of a bad 80s movie -- they're like cartoon characters.
567 | Varek Raith Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:36:17am |
re: #565 Rightwingconspirator
Okay I'm back to micro (sub micro?) economics.
My job.
BBL!
Make the price of gold crash.
You know, just for giggles.
///
568 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:37:23am |
re: #562 rwdflynavy
That's how Bob and Doug McKenzie taught me on the Great White North album. Metric, you just double it and add 30.
That's farenheit/celsius conversion!!!
569 | Varek Raith Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:37:33am |
re: #566 Gus 802
They're mostly pissed off that more people showed up to this rally (215,000 vs. 87,000) than Beck's. Steven Crowder always has a bug up his about something. That "Fox & Friends" always seems like something out of a bad 80s movie -- they're like cartoon characters.
Watching Fox and Friends makes me want to pummel some cute, innocent creature.
/
570 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:39:10am |
The family that works together, stays together....
Mother/Daughter prostitution team busted
[Link: www.wlbt.com...]
Lt. Scott said, "Now, this case was made based on a complaint made by one of the local churches."Unlike, the 1218 Langley Street operation where our undercover camera caught a pregnant prostitute preparing for sex with a "john", the Valley Street sting didn't get that far. Money exchanged hands and the case was made. But there is a bizarre twist.
Lt. Scott said, "This is actually a mother/daughter team."
571 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:39:11am |
re: #568 ralphieboy
That's farenheit/celsius conversion!!!
Bob and Doug used it for all metric conversions. Hilariousness ensued.
572 | allegro Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:39:50am |
re: #566 Gus 802
They're mostly pissed off that more people showed up to this rally (215,000 vs. 87,000) than Beck's. Steven Crowder always has a bug up his about something. That "Fox & Friends" always seems like something out of a bad 80s movie -- they're like cartoon characters.
Considering the policies the teatards push, I imagine they're mostly pissed at seeing all those people having fun. I swear, that's the only reason I can think of for those folks to get so exercised over what other people are doing that doesn't affect them at all.
573 | Gus Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:40:09am |
re: #569 Varek Raith
Watching Fox and Friends makes me want to pummel some cute, innocent creature.
/
Makes me wish I was on a tropical island with no computer and no TV and far away from the USA.
574 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:41:03am |
Wow, "double it and add thirty" gives you roughly the difference betwen the Beck rally and Stweard/Colbert!!!
575 | Gus Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:42:43am |
re: #572 allegro
Considering the policies the teatards push, I imagine they're mostly pissed at seeing all those people having fun. I swear, that's the only reason I can think of for those folks to get so exercised over what other people are doing that doesn't affect them at all.
Yeah, plus a lot people are still stuck in the 50s. You know how they used to call folks "square"? Well, Fox News still markets itself to the same squares. I'm sure there were plenty of things at the rally that freaked them out.
576 | Varek Raith Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:43:59am |
re: #575 Gus 802
Yeah, plus a lot people are still stuck in the 50s. You know how they used to call folks "square"? Well, Fox News still markets itself to the same squares. I'm sure there were plenty of things at the rally that freaked them out.
The 1950's.
The Golden Age of America!
/
577 | blueraven Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:45:28am |
re: #573 Gus 802
Makes me wish I was on a tropical island with no computer and no TV and far away from the USA.
There is such a disconnect between the clip they chose to show of Jon Stewart's final speech and their attitude. His words were totally non partisan and defending the tea party as well as the progressives against false labels. WTF?
Then idiot Carlson makes the comment that Stewart is all dressed up in his suit (to look like a journalist). Huh? He wears a suit every night on his show.
Tres idiotas.
578 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:45:46am |
re: #536 Buck
The joke was the joke 10 years ago... That isn't the point. But thank you for find that nit to pick.
Ten years ago, the Japanese were also in a recession. Their economy has been troubled since the 1990s. They've been in deflation for basically that entire time.
Is the point of the joke that the offshoring of jobs that Bush's administration so favored eventually made the domestic US market weak enough that China took us over?
579 | allegro Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:47:40am |
re: #575 Gus 802
Yeah, plus a lot people are still stuck in the 50s. You know how they used to call folks "square"? Well, Fox News still markets itself to the same squares. I'm sure there were plenty of things at the rally that freaked them out.
I suspect there's something to that. Having been born in 1953 with my formative teenage years in Chicago in the 60s, there truly was terror in the hearts of many with the counter-culture movement. Some still haven't gotten over it and much of what we're seeing today is still the backlash.
580 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Mon, Nov 1, 2010 11:13:22am |
re: #556 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush was getting in his daily hour of hate pre-election today. Real Orwellian crap. Remember folks, your neighbors hate America and are waging war against you, but they're the one who are filled with hate and fear.
Which works out correctly if everyone listens to Rush...
And isn't it one of the oldest tricks to distract the pack of wolves after you to throw a chunk of meat into them so that they fall into fighting among themselves while you escape with the loot?
/
581 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Nov 1, 2010 2:19:56pm |
re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist
Sarah was fighting out of her weight class with Katie Couric. Do we really want to see what happens if she takes on Hillary?
Also, why would we not run the present incumbent in 2012?
Because he's a black muslim socialist, duh!