GOP Plans to Persecute Scientists and Attack Science Itself

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It gets worse. Not only is the incoming Republican leadership planning to launch inquisitions into their political enemies, they’re plotting a full-out assault on the science of climate change.

If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama administration’s environmental policies, as well as on scientists who link air pollution to climate change.

The GOP’s fire will be concentrated especially on the administration’s efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency’s authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.

The attack, according to senior Republicans, will seek to portray the EPA as abusing its authority and damaging the economy with needless government regulations.

In addition, GOP leaders say, they will focus on what they see as distortions of scientific evidence regarding climate change and on Obama administration efforts to achieve by executive rule-making what it failed to win from Congress.

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129 comments
1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:19:07pm

We look like fucking fools to the rest of the world on this.

Goddamn communist China is ahead of us on the science of AGW.

That is humiliating.

It is also incredibly dangerous for the United States.

2 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:19:18pm

Fuck you GOP. Really, just fuck you.

3 theheat  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:20:08pm

Seriously, did no one believe this was going to happen? It isn’t as if there haven’t been very well documented posts alluding to this kind of meltdown for, like, the past year or something.

No, really, did no one see this was in the works?

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:21:36pm

Once again:

I can and have written quite a lot about how their “science” is just as wrong crazy and stupid on this as it is on evolution. However, the GOP was not always as bought ans sold to the oil companies as it is today and conservative icons once clearly understood the threats.

Reagan, Thatcher and Bush Sr. supported AGW action.

People should really know something of the history of Republican hypocrisy on this.

I really want to point people to the following:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

As Republicans try to re-write their history and pretend that Global Warming is some sort of liberal hoax, it is important to remember that the GOP was not always the party of anti-science hacks (well at least not completely). The next time you hear some Republican claim to be a conservative, ask them why they hate Reagan, Thatcher and Bush senior. Of course, I am pointing to the blinding hypocrisy of the GOP on this. But worse, I am pointing to the fact that even in the 80’s it was clear even to conservatives, that there was a problem. That problem has only gotten worse in the last 30 years.

It is also important to remember that the first serious reports on Global Warming to an American president from the National Academy went to President Johnson in 1965!

The biggest point, which I don’t want to get lost, is that 60 years ago, it was clear to many scientists that AGW is a serious problem. By 50 years ago, the President had been alerted. 20-30 years ago, the data was good enough that people like Reagan, Bush and Thatcher weren’t arguing with it.

The science now is utterly iron clad.

Perhaps 40 years ago, there was still some room for legitimate debate about AGW becoming a major problem - and then only some room. Once Milankovitch cycles were understood in the Seventies and ice core and proxy data combined with Keeling curves, the debate of if it was happening or not and if we were causing it, really began to close.

There was perhaps still some room for calling for more research (just to be sure the effects would be bad enough to warrant serious action) in the early 80s. By the time James Hansen first testified to Congress in the late 80s, there was really not any major doubt left as to the basic science.

As of now, the only people who deny it are paid propagandists for corporate interests, their hacks, their pet politicians and of course the deluded masses who believe those lies and think that this is somehow a Democratic issue only.

It is all a pack of dangerous and evil lies paid for by people like the Koch brothers.

5 theheat  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:23:41pm

Honestly, voting for the GOP to fix whatever people thought was broken, is like being a little bit pregnant. You don’t get the supposed fiscal fixes without the socon stupid. Doesn’t work that way. Why anyone believed it would is beyond me.

6 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:25:30pm

just wait, until the subpoenas for the “birth documents” start.

I am telling you….this is effed up.

Lewinsky. Swift Boat. McCain’s black baby…

They did the McCain thing to one of their own. They are going to try and impeach him and god knows what else.

The fucking circus has come to town…

7 SpaceJesus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:25:54pm

I have to do a research paper for my Climate Law class this semester, due in December. Hello topic.

8 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:26:39pm

re: #3 theheat

Seriously, did no one believe this was going to happen? It isn’t as if there haven’t been very well documented posts alluding to this kind of meltdown for, like, the past year or something.

No, really, did no one see this was in the works?

It’s been quite obvious that the money behind the GOP wanted the science quashed so that they could continue to extract profits to the detriment of us all.

The truly sad thing is that this problem is fixable and even profitable to do so.

Denmark for instance created 200,000 jobs which can not be outsourced by updating their grind and employing wind-farms. They now receive 21% of their power from this free source of energy and billions of dollars that would have left their nation each year, instead stay in their economy and grow it.

Germany, Sweden, Israel and the US Navy have similar - working - programs.

Even from an economic wonk point of view the GOP position is a pack of lies designed to keep certain interests wealthy. The fact that those same interests spent billions of dollars to astroturf against “special interests and government intervention” is an irony that would be beautiful, if there were not also billions of lives at stake.

9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:27:11pm

re: #6 Intenzity

given who was elected, it’s more like the sideshow took over the circus and they are planning on speeding past the town and straight off a cliff.

10 Bob Levin  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:27:34pm

Let them have the hearings, and then watch the polls directly related to the hearings.

I mean, for instance, how well do you think HUAC would play today?

The GOP had the votes for this one evening, they did not have public support or agreement. Many who were elected have already misread the results.

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:28:58pm

Remember:

Cap and trade started as a Reagan initiative to end acid rain. McCain and Palin ran on it, as ” a sound conservative, free market solution” (it does have the lineage of Reagan and was implemented by Bush Senior). Then their corporate masters told them not to believe it anymore.

12 Gus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:29:50pm

Here come the dumb rednecks. Reading here that Joe Barton of Texas might get House Energy & Commerce Committee. Texan Ralph Hall for Science and Technology who strongly backs the “Texas oil and gas industry and pushed for opening Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.”

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:29:54pm

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF


Denmark for instance created 200,000 jobs which can not be outsourced by updating their grid and employing wind-farms. They now receive 21% of their power from this free source of energy and billions of dollars that would have left their nation each year, instead stay in their economy and grow it.

Germany, Sweden, Israel and the US Navy have similar - working - programs.

Even from an economic wonk point of view the GOP position is a pack of lies designed to keep certain interests wealthy. The fact that those same interests spent billions of dollars to astroturf against “special interests and government intervention” is an irony that would be beautiful, if there were not also billions of lives at stake.

14 theheat  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:30:16pm

re: #10 Bob Levin

Let them have the hearings, and then watch the polls directly related to the hearings.

It’s the kind of shit Glenn Beck jerks off to. It’s a whole new avenue of entertainment for the same people who watch Fox News. Common sense says it would be detrimental, but the socons will live for it. They’ve been itching to punish the Dems since that black man set foot in the White House.

15 Bob Levin  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:31:19pm

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s exactly why this issue will crumble for them. They have to change, or it will crush this “mandate”. I have hopes that some governor will understand this, launch major energy/environmental projects, see unemployment drop—and thereby cause many other states to follow suit.

16 Randy W. Weeks  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:31:44pm

100 years from now people are going to be spitting on the graves of these asshats.

18 Gus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:33:29pm

More on the potential redneck for Science and Technology:

Oldest House Member Is in Line to Lead Science Panel

[…]

His most notable success this year was during the reauthorization of the 2007 America COMPETES Act, which backs a 10-year doubling of the budgets of NSF, DOE science, and NIST along with programs to foster science education and innovation. Hall blocked Gordon’s first attempt at passage by adding an antipornography provision that forced the bill off the floor and back onto the House calendar.

[…]

There has been speculation that the committee could offer Republicans a forum to attack the Obama Administration’s plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Several vocal skeptics of human-induced climate change sit on the panel, including Representative Dana Rohrabacher (R–CA) and Representative Paul Broun (R–GA).

19 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:33:35pm

So who will be the GOP’s Lysenko?

20 Tigger2  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:33:39pm

I just want to know when sane Republicans are going to say, I”VE HAD ENOUGH
And quit electing these 18 century politicians.

21 Bob Levin  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:33:48pm

re: #16 LoneStarSpur

Name the chairman of HUAC. No one can, they’d have to look it up. These guys will, for the most part, be forgotten.

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:34:52pm

re: #12 Gus 802

Here come the dumb rednecks. Reading here that Joe Barton of Texas might get House Energy & Commerce Committee. Texan Ralph Hall for Science and Technology who strongly backs the “Texas oil and gas industry and pushed for opening Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.”

That wailing sound you heard was me screaming.

Just to be clear, Barton was the one who apologized to BP for having to pay for desecrating the gulf. He also bangs his bible a lot.

From Isaiah:

“Wash yourselves purify yourselves, remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes. Learn to do good, seek justice, vindicate the victim, render justice to the orphan, take up the grievance of the widow.”

As to Barton and this lot particularly, Isaiah immediately continues with something they would be worried about if they actually believed in God:

“How the faithful city has become a harlot!… Your princes are rebellious and associates of thieves; each of them loves bribery and pursues payments. They do not render justice to the orphan, take up the grievance of the widow.”

Shall we discuss Haliburton or BP? How much money flows from these types into GOP coffers and to Fox? When someone like Senator Barton apologizes to BP, for having to take some responsibility for desecrating the Gulf, isn’t it obvious our “princes” pursue payments, do not render justice to the victim and are associates of thieves?

23 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:35:06pm

re: #20 Tigger2

I just want to know when sane Republicans are going to say, I”VE HAD ENOUGH
And quit electing these 18 century politicians.

There is no such thing anymore. They are all batshit. The sane ones have absolutely no pull or sway or influence at all. They get labeled RINO and cast out.

24 theheat  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:35:24pm

re: #20 Tigger2

Nobody forced those sane Republicans to vote for these dumbasses. They picked them. They voted for them, just the way they are. Whose fault is that?

25 simoom  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:35:33pm

Some more on this from an October Politico article:

EPA in the crosshairs

Congressional Republicans planning an assault on the Obama administration’s environmental record aim to turn Lisa Jackson into public enemy No. 1.

On the campaign trail, Republicans have adopted the Environmental Protection Agency as a favorite symbol of the White House’s regulatory overreach. And behind the scenes in Washington, GOP staffers and K Street lobbyists who say they’ve been dissed by the EPA administrator are looking forward to getting some revenge.

Like other senior administration officials, Jackson can expect to be chained to a witness chair on Capitol Hill if Republicans win either chamber. There, they hope to make her defend policies the GOP contends are unpopular and anti-business.

“I think she’ll be very much in demand on the Hill, at times not of her choosing,” said a former staffer on the House Energy and Commerce Committee. “It will diminish her free time, shall we say.”
…
Some of the animosity is personal: Republicans in both chambers and K Street attorneys say Jackson and her staff are too dismissive of opposing views and other stakeholders.

Eheh…

Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), the favorite to chair the Energy and Commerce Committee if Democrats lose the House, hopes to investigate the Obama administration’s “poisonous regulations” and the role of policy “czars” in the White House, including energy adviser Browner.

“If we have the gavel, I can assure you that the oversight subcommittee will be very busy,” Upton told POLITICO, adding that Browner can also expect frequent invitations to testify. “We’ll have a seat reserved for her,” he said.

Energy and Commerce won’t be the only panel on Jackson’s dance card: Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said he wants to use the Oversight and Government Reform Committee to lead a probe into the science underpinning the EPA’s climate regulations. And Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) hopes to keep the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming alive so he can examine the administration’s climate and energy policies.

On Lisa Jackson:

Under her watch, the EPA has pushed through the nation’s first-ever climate rules aimed at curbing emissions from large industries and automobiles. The agency has also come under fire for its efforts to limit toxic coal ash, ozone and soot and smog emissions from power plants.
…
One industry attorney complained that Jackson sees everything as a “mythic struggle between right and wrong,” rather than looking to compromise.

“It’s definitely anti-lobbyist rhetoric,” Jackson told POLITICO earlier this month. … “I do very much believe that it’s time for us to get past this tired dance, where folks inside this Beltway get paid a lot of money to say things that aren’t true about public health initiatives that this agency is charged by law with undertaking,” she added.

26 Locker  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:35:43pm

Science is the enemy of the Republican party. This is not at all surprising and still incredible lame.

27 simoom  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:37:45pm

And a short NYT article on Rep. Issa wanting to resurrect “Climategate”:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the ranking member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said a probe of the “Climategate” scandal will top his environmental agenda if the Republicans take over the House next year and he gets the chairmanship.

“I do have a backburner investigation that I’m going to want to have completed, and that is, we paid a lot of money to have international evaluation, most of it done in Britain, that turns out to have been less than truthful in some of the figures,” he said. “We’re going to want to not investigate to get our money back, but we’re going to want to have a do-over of good numbers so that everyone can have confidence.”
…
“For me, settled science starts out with settled raw data, then people negotiate and discuss and hypothecate from that data,” Issa said. “If the raw data’s in doubt, then the idea that we have settled science doesn’t exist. I want settled science.”

28 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:38:59pm

For those here at LGF who still do vote for the GOP, please at least take the time to contact those you voted for and let them know that theri continued opposition to science is something that will lose them your vote, that if they hold these laughable inquiries you will not vote for them. Please let them know that there are consequences to their foolishness.

Otherwise, they’re going to just keep on doing it. They are not improving; they are getting worse.

29 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:40:10pm

re: #17 Charles

Inaction on Climate Change Putting Decades of Human Progress at Risk.

That is an excellent post. The first people to suffer from this the most will be the poor. The first crops to fail utterly, dustbowls to consume nations places where water will disappear - or coasts flooded with salt water, are ironically the places where people have contributed the least to the problem and have the least to start with. These people are already on the edge. The spread of contagion that will come with AGW will be a licker on top of the drought, starvation and need to migrate.

No right thinking GOP bot would care about their suffering. However, GOP types pretend that once those nations are eaten, it will already be too late for us. This is a process with a lot of inertia. We are already committed to some very bad things happening. By the time it is apparent to the extent that even brainwashed GOP bots can’t deny it, the US will be signed up for a catastrophe we can not avoid.

The end result is billions of deaths and the collapse of our civilization as we know it, if we do not change course.

30 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:40:16pm

I can not wrap my elitist brain around this.

Why?

We used to be locked in a death struggle for science and technology with the USSR (space race!) Now the GOP wants to discredit it.

Is it theocracy?
Is it panding to populism?

What is the possible good this is going to do? Except get them into power by the people that resent having to work for the people they used to pick on by people who got good grades (and by the way, some of us had to work damn hard for them.)

I

31 Gus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:40:42pm

re: #22 LudwigVanQuixote

That wailing sound you heard was me screaming.

Just to be clear, Barton was the one who apologized to BP for having to pay for desecrating the gulf. He also bangs his bible a lot.

From Isaiah:

“Wash yourselves purify yourselves, remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes. Learn to do good, seek justice, vindicate the victim, render justice to the orphan, take up the grievance of the widow.”

As to Barton and this lot particularly, Isaiah immediately continues with something they would be worried about if they actually believed in God:

Shall we discuss Haliburton or BP? How much money flows from these types into GOP coffers and to Fox? When someone like Senator Barton apologizes to BP, for having to take some responsibility for desecrating the Gulf, isn’t it obvious our “princes” pursue payments, do not render justice to the victim and are associates of thieves?

Yep. Like I said, rednecks. And they’re ALL a bunch of Bible thumpers to boot. The 112th Congress is going to be a pathetic joke. Could you imagine that idiot Dana Rohrabacher on AGW? He graduated with a Masters in American Studies and used to be a folk singer on the side. What a joke.

32 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:41:00pm

re: #30 abbyadams

pandering, pandering. I know, PIYF.

33 Tigger2  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:42:59pm

re: #23 Intenzity

There is no such thing anymore. They are all batshit. The sane ones have absolutely no pull or sway or influence at all. They get labeled RINO and cast out.

re: #24 theheat

Nobody forced those sane Republicans to vote for these dumbasses. They picked them. They voted for them, just the way they are. Whose fault is that?


Then I dont consider them sane.

34 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:43:18pm

re: #30 abbyadams

It’s not just pandering. They are actively pushing the disinformation, allied with people like the Koch’s, organizations like the Heritage Foundation, and a lot of the energy companies.

They are intentionally misleading Americans on this subject. Even those Republicans who don’t actively call AGW a fraud very carefully avoid saying that it’s real.

Whether some of them honestly believe God will somehow intervene, whether it’s a cynical and horrifyingly inhuman calculation that the US will weather the effects of AGW better than other nations, or whether it’s pure short-term desire for power, they are creating, as well as benefiting from, the ignorance on this topic.

35 celticdragon  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:43:59pm

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

It’s been quite obvious that the money behind the GOP wanted the science quashed so that they could continue to extract profits to the detriment of us all.

The truly sad thing is that this problem is fixable and even profitable to do so.

Denmark for instance created 200,000 jobs which can not be outsourced by updating their grind and employing wind-farms. They now receive 21% of their power from this free source of energy and billions of dollars that would have left their nation each year, instead stay in their economy and grow it.

Germany, Sweden, Israel and the US Navy have similar - working - programs.

Even from an economic wonk point of view the GOP position is a pack of lies designed to keep certain interests wealthy. The fact that those same interests spent billions of dollars to astroturf against “special interests and government intervention” is an irony that would be beautiful, if there were not also billions of lives at stake.

Free markets, bee-yotches!

36 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:44:11pm

This isn’t going to be pretty. I really hope it has a terrible backlash against them. The scientists are just doing their jobs. Seriously, science was never my cup of tea in school but I am so sick of right wing assholes bashing scientists because they feel it’s conveient.

37 Michael McBacon  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:44:48pm

Hey, GOP. Thanks for setting us back 400 years.

38 aagcobb  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:45:32pm

re: #17 Charles

Inaction on Climate Change Putting Decades of Human Progress at Risk.

Since when does the GOP care about the poor? Much less poor brown foreigners? And scientists? Everyone knows that they are marxist atheists who hate God and are plotting to impose a one-world islamo-marxist-fascist dictatorship on America!1!!1/

39 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:46:10pm

re: #30 abbyadams

I can not wrap my elitist brain around this.

Why?

We used to be locked in a death struggle for science and technology with the USSR (space race!) Now the GOP wants to discredit it.

Is it theocracy?
Is it panding to populism?

What is the possible good this is going to do? Except get them into power by the people that resent having to work for the people they used to pick on by people who got good grades (and by the way, some of us had to work damn hard for them.)

I

I have no idea. It’s just messed up. You have Republican candidates for office who I believe have said with straight faces that they formed their opinion on climate change based off of what pepole like Limbaugh say. It’s just messed up on so many different proportions.

40 aagcobb  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:47:58pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

I have no idea. It’s just messed up. You have Republican candidates for office who I believe have said with straight faces that they formed their opinion on climate change based off of what pepole like Limbaugh say. It’s just messed up on so many different proportions.

If a Republican publicly disagrees with Rush, its just a matter of hours before they have to apologize for doubting his wisdom.

41 Gus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:48:03pm

Here you go…

Image: gopscienceandtechnology.jpg

42 iossarian  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:48:06pm

Self-avowed Republican voters strangely absent from climate change thread.

43 celticdragon  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:48:38pm

re: #36 HappyWarrior

This isn’t going to be pretty. I really hope it has a terrible backlash against them. The scientists are just doing their jobs. Seriously, science was never my cup of tea in school but I am so sick of right wing assholes bashing scientists because they feel it’s conveient.

Science is my cup of tea, since I am working on a geology degree. Many of the scientists working on agw are geologists.

I take this personally, since these useless idiots are actually trying to launch a witch hunt into my own profession.

44 Joanne  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:48:41pm

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s what’s killing me on all this obstruction on green technology. I keep reading and hearing from nuts, “What is a GREEN job?” (snicker, snicker, snort) and all kinds of crap like that. Look at the job creation going on in China due to green technology…OUR green technology is being outsourced to China along with all the crap we buy at WalMart because we couldn’t get congress to agree to making the US friendly for start-up or existing green energy companies.

It makes me want to cry. All these jobs which could be here.

45 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:49:51pm

re: #42 iossarian

Self-avowed Republican voters strangely absent from climate change thread.

Now that their voices will be heard on the House floor, they do not need to waste time posting here…

46 abbyadams  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:50:10pm

re: #43 celticdragon

I also take it personally. (Biologist.) Upding.

47 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:51:07pm

re: #30 abbyadams

I can not wrap my elitist brain around this.

Why?

We used to be locked in a death struggle for science and technology with the USSR (space race!) Now the GOP wants to discredit it.

Is it theocracy?
Is it panding to populism?

What is the possible good this is going to do? Except get them into power by the people that resent having to work for the people they used to pick on by people who got good grades (and by the way, some of us had to work damn hard for them.)

I

It is very simple. Their corporate masters want to maintain the status quo.

Facing AGW means actually using other sources of energy which are available and have been for some time. It means that Exxon, BP, Haliburton et al.. either re-invests in making that happen or go under.

They are that greedy and that short sighted.

Even if the catastrophic damage due to AGW were not in the picture, peak oil is. The security threat from that alone is reason to shift. But that is another case where the “ohhh so support the troops” GOP ignores the military.

Even if AGW were not in the picture, creating our own updated grid and generating our own power would create millions of jobs and keep hundreds of billions of dollars in the US while creating an economic boom for the average American. But this is another case of the GOP showing just how much they care about middle America.

But AGW is in the picture. This course of action is condemning you, me and everyone on the planet to an increasingly bleak future where people will not argue about the economics of oil, but rather the water supply and where to get food. The full scale of the catastrophe they are trying to condemn is to will make the second world war look like a foot note. Please I beg all of you, if you love your children, if you want there to be anything that looks remotely like the America we have today in 2100 - I beg you to face that this is real. This is happening now. It will get much much worse - far beyond what anyone is comfortable imagining. Unlike the threat of nuclear war in the cold war, this is happening. The button is being pushed - it is just on a longer timescale.

This is not just my opinion. This is the science. This is not my speculation, this is the result of the hard data and the actual math. This is not just my words for it. This is what NASA, NOAA, APS, AGU, The Royal Society and the French, Russian, German and Israeli academies are saying to name a few.

The GOP would have you believe they are all somehow lying. They are not lying.

48 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:51:10pm

re: #44 JustJay

Apparently science and technology only means something when it can be used to build a bigger, badder bomb but is meaningless to the republicans when it can be used to actually help people since it might reduce our consumption of fossil fuels and put some of their friends out of jobs.

49 iossarian  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:51:55pm

re: #45 ralphieboy

Now that their voices will be heard on the House floor, they do not need to waste time posting here…

Well, either that or the crippling embarrassment of being associated with people who would deny 2+2=4 if it suited some billionaire somewhere.

50 Joanne  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:53:07pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

I have no idea. It’s just messed up. You have Republican candidates for office who I believe have said with straight faces that they formed their opinion on climate change based off of what pepole like Limbaugh say. It’s just messed up on so many different proportions.

It’s more than that. It’s a flat out denial of anything scientific because it goes against creationism and the earth being 6000 years old. It has to be a full-frontal assault on science because it’s not just climate, it ties into everything surrounding their BELIEF. Once you say science is, well, scientific, you have to have those of faith rely solely on their faith because science scares them and makes people think. Thinking is a very, very bad thing.

Besides, there is too much money to be made off of oil.

51 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:53:39pm

re: #49 iossarian

Well, either that or the crippling embarrassment of being associated with people who would deny 2+2=4 if it suited some billionaire somewhere.


We should just ensure that we “teach the controversy” that there is a school of thought that 2x2=5.

52 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54:03pm

re: #40 aagcobb

If a Republican publicly disagrees with Rush, its just a matter of hours before they have to apologize for doubting his wisdom.

God I Remember one guy in Georgia right after Obama got elected, he basically told Rush to get off the Republicans’ back because he was basically act like an armchair quarterback. The next day he’s on the air apologizing “For his poor choice of words.” I mean have some goddamn balls. I think Steele also apologized to Limbaugh too. Seriously, it’s truly sad that a man like Limbaugh who is the word anti intellectual personalified is who helps drives the discussion in the GOP.

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54:15pm

re: #35 celticdragon

Free markets, bee-yotches!

Like so many other GOP talking points, they don’t really mean that. When they say free market, they mean, protecting their corporate masters and not hindering them with things like responsibilities or “mere” morality.

Really. Do you ever stop to think of the conditions that generated so many of the products we all consume?

Evil has no messenger.

I mean it when I say the GOP is evil. The definitions I use for evil come from the very bible they hypocritically thump. However, as a Jew, the idea of them suffering some Divine retribution in the afterlife does not fill me with happiness. I would much rather prevent them from doing evil in this life.

54 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54:47pm

re: #43 celticdragon

Science is my cup of tea, since I am working on a geology degree. Many of the scientists working on agw are geologists.

I take this personally, since these useless idiots are actually trying to launch a witch hunt into my own profession.

You should take it personally. These assholes are acting people like you want to ruin this country when you’re just doing your jobs.

55 Gus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54:52pm

Why CO2 are plant food and being a homersexual is just like being on of them there alcoholics — it’s a disease. Just like them there liberalism.

//Wingnut.

/

56 Ericus58  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:56:03pm

re: #42 iossarian

Self-avowed Republican voters strangely absent from climate change thread.

I’m here. Just a very busy day - the last 15 minutes have been my first real breather.

LVQ had a great page, it got my ding.
Great bit of history and facts, and it will get around in my circle.

Not all of us are bent on turning back the clock.
And I still like my vote for Reichert.

57 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:58:46pm

I wish there were more moderate Republicans still out there really. But it seems that many of them have been forced out due to being RINOs. It really is too bad. I don’t want a one party system where only the party I agree with has a voice but I do want the opposition to be sane not a bunch of loony loons who seem to care more about forcing their view of religion on the rest of us than they do actually solving real problems.

58 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:58:48pm

re: #43 celticdragon

re: #46 abbyadams

I take it very personally, not because I am a physicist - who researches this very topic even - but because I want my children when I have them to have a better future, not a bleak one.

I don’t think the data is bleak. I know it is.

I would not be any definition of man if I did not try to do something.

59 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:59:04pm

re: #56 Ericus58

Well fuck me, there is a Republican who actually says that climate change is occurring.


Advocating for real and immediate action to tackle climate change by supporting a cap and trade system with domestic and international offsets to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 70% below 1990 levels by 2050.

[Link: reichert.house.gov…]

Good to know.

60 Vambo  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:59:17pm

BRAWNDO!!!

It’s got what PLANTS crave!!!!

Image: brawndo_can_large.jpg

Image: idiocracyfoodpyramid.jpg

61 iossarian  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:59:36pm

re: #56 Ericus58

I’m here. Just a very busy day - the last 15 minutes have been my first real breather.

LVQ had a great page, it got my ding.
Great bit of history and facts, and it will get around in my circle.

Not all of us are bent on turning back the clock.
And I still like my vote for Reichert.

Fair enough, and Reichert isn’t a complete lunatic, I will give him that.

Hopefully he will vote against the anti-science stuff. We will see.

62 Ericus58  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:00:23pm

And it would be good to keep in mind that those of us who identify as Republican here at LGF by a clear majority are NOT Climate Change deniers.

Please keep that in mind when taking pot-shots at your fellow Lizards.

63 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:00:28pm

re: #59 Obdicut

Well fuck me, there is a Republican who actually says that climate change is occurring.

[Link: reichert.house.gov…]

Good to know.

Yeah, I like seeing that. I am actually familiar with Reichert due to my interest in serial killer history. I believe he was the guy who caught Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer so he has my respect for that.

64 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:01:28pm

Richard Feynman used to say “If it was something the average person could understand I wouldn’t have won the Nobel Prize for it”, and these Republicans think all of science is something that one can just pick up along the way, reading a few magazine articles, and that their common sense makes them just as valid and authority as someone who is an actual scientist and has studied a subject for decades. They then turn around and convince millions of people that is how it works, and see, you are just as smart as any ol’ “scientist” and they use logical fallacies that anyone with a semester of a reasoning class would be able to identify to convince people of that untruth.

The scariest thing is…it works.

They are anti-intellectual because it is easier to get dumb, superstitious religious people to do what they are told and to react to someone who takes an authoritarian posture than it is to have to deal with educated people that have all these crazy ideas and can use logic and stuff. THOSE people are the enemies to Republicans. They want a scared, religious population that is easily manipulated and controlled, can be used in perpetual wars and just do what they are told.

65 Ericus58  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:01:45pm

re: #59 Obdicut

Well fuck me, there is a Republican who actually says that climate change is occurring.

[Link: reichert.house.gov…]

Good to know.

Thanks for posting that, Obdicut.
There’s work ahead to be sure, but it will continue.

66 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:01:46pm

re: #62 Ericus58

I can accept that, but the fact that the GOP, as a party, has a plank of AGW denial is still a very real thing. I’m heartened to see that Reichart exists, but he’s not going to do it on his own.

67 theheat  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:02:43pm

I need to take a break today. The past few days I’ve probably spent more time here than the past year. For my own sanity, I need to chill the hell out, get some work done, and reconcile the implications of this election with myself. I can’t get this upset - it isn’t healthy. My ears are ringing, my blood pressure is so high. This is not good. That gives people like Limbaugh a stiffy, and I don’t like enabling that kind of fuckery at the expense of my health.

But I will say, since I quit the bitch known as the GOP - most definitively - within 5 minutes of McCain tapping that fundie moron as his VP choice - I see I have less and less in common with the GOP I thought I knew. It’s like not missing an addiction any more.

I was never religious.
I was never anti-science.
I always liked gay people.
I like people of all kinds of colors.
I’m pro choice. Always was.
I’m pro environment. Always was.
I believe animals, too, have a basic level of rights.

Okay, I like guns. I believe in being fiscally conservative. But, aren’t those things saner Democrats like, too? I have to ask myself, just what the FUCK did I ever think I had in common with the GOP? Habit, I guess. Just a stupid habit. My upbringing, I suppose.

So now, probably a lot like Don Quixote, I guess my personal mission is to try to convince my local Dems to butch up and knock these socon sonsabitches back to the dark ages they seem to crave and glorify. Oh, and make sure those fundie freaks stop crawling up women’s uteruses, while I’m being all “idealistic and shit.”

It’s the Dems or that fucking freak show known as the GOP. I’m pitching my tent with the Dems.

Happy Halloween. In the words of that anarchist, Curious Lurker, BBL ;-)

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:02:44pm

re: #62 Ericus58

And it would be good to keep in mind that those of us who identify as Republican here at LGF by a clear majority are NOT Climate Change deniers.

Please keep that in mind when taking pot-shots at your fellow Lizards.

Please keep in mind that the leaders of your party made very clear that you are a RINO.

Please keep in mind that your party leadership has vowed to make an inquisition against the science to the detriment of us all.

Please keep in mind that they deserve all the scorn we give them and more.

69 RealityDig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:03:30pm

Attacking science, while sounding terrible in the immediate, might not actually be all that bad. There are many who swept into power on Tuesday and the red states got all that more red, but America and the rest of the world is about to become wildly aware of what happens when you let fear and polarization lead your hand at the voting booth. The right-wing of this country has only a short time to prove that they can help move us forwards, not back into the 19th century. Plus, there is the subtle benefit that comes when people try to attack factually based science, facts can be distorted and they can be lied about, but when the smoke clears, they are still FACTS.

70 Vambo  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:04:29pm

re: #60 Vambo

BRAWNDO!!!

It’s got what PLANTS crave!!!

Meeting with the GOP house in 2012:

Youtube Video
71 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:06:14pm

re: #69 goldwriting

Attacking science, while sounding terrible in the immediate, might not actually be all that bad. There are many who swept into power on Tuesday and the red states got all that more red, but America and the rest of the world is about to become wildly aware of what happens when you let fear and polarization lead your hand at the voting booth. The right-wing of this country has only a short time to prove that they can help move us forwards, not back into the 19th century. Plus, there is the subtle benefit that comes when people try to attack factually based science, facts can be distorted and they can be lied about, but when the smoke clears, they are still FACTS.

You are correct. If there weren’t a clock ticking I would be much more sanguine. BY the time the science is incontrovertible even to morons who watch Fox - who will then be blaming Dems for not doing anything about AGW (!) - it will be much too late. This is one I told you so that will be the greatest hollow victory in the history of science.

We simply do not have the time for this suicidal lunacy foisted upon us by the corrupt and the clueless.

72 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:07:16pm

re: #69 goldwriting

It’s a fact that marijuana is a non-addictive substance with substantial medical benefits and minimal negative side effects. This has been a known fact for a long, long time.

It’s still a schedule I drug.

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:07:25pm

re: #64 Intenzity

Richard Feynman used to say “If it was something the average person could understand I wouldn’t have won the Nobel Prize for it”, and these Republicans think all of science is something that one can just pick up along the way, reading a few magazine articles, and that their common sense makes them just as valid and authority as someone who is an actual scientist and has studied a subject for decades. They then turn around and convince millions of people that is how it works, and see, you are just as smart as any ol’ “scientist” and they use logical fallacies that anyone with a semester of a reasoning class would be able to identify to convince people of that untruth.

The scariest thing is…it works.

They are anti-intellectual because it is easier to get dumb, superstitious religious people to do what they are told and to react to someone who takes an authoritarian posture than it is to have to deal with educated people that have all these crazy ideas and can use logic and stuff. THOSE people are the enemies to Republicans. They want a scared, religious population that is easily manipulated and controlled, can be used in perpetual wars and just do what they are told.

And this dovetails so well with all the ways they gut education. They really are a self perpetuating cancer that metastasized long ago.

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:08:39pm

re: #67 theheat

I need to take a break today. The past few days I’ve probably spent more time here than the past year. For my own sanity, I need to chill the hell out, get some work done, and reconcile the implications of this election with myself. I can’t get this upset - it isn’t healthy. My ears are ringing, my blood pressure is so high. This is not good. That gives people like Limbaugh a stiffy, and I don’t like enabling that kind of fuckery at the expense of my health.

But I will say, since I quit the bitch known as the GOP - most definitively - within 5 minutes of McCain tapping that fundie moron as his VP choice - I see I have less and less in common with the GOP I thought I knew. It’s like not missing an addiction any more.

I was never religious.
I was never anti-science.
I always liked gay people.
I like people of all kinds of colors.
I’m pro choice. Always was.
I’m pro environment. Always was.
I believe animals, too, have a basic level of rights.

Okay, I like guns. I believe in being fiscally conservative. But, aren’t those things saner Democrats like, too? I have to ask myself, just what the FUCK did I ever think I had in common with the GOP? Habit, I guess. Just a stupid habit. My upbringing, I suppose.

So now, probably a lot like Don Quixote, I guess my personal mission is to try to convince my local Dems to butch up and knock these socon sonsabitches back to the dark ages they seem to crave and glorify. Oh, and make sure those fundie freaks stop crawling up women’s uteruses, while I’m being all “idealistic and shit.”

It’s the Dems or that fucking freak show known as the GOP. I’m pitching my tent with the Dems.

Happy Halloween. In the words of that anarchist, Curious Lurker, BBL ;-)

Excellent post.

BTW the GOP was never the party of fiscal responsibility. They gave us the SnL crisis, Enron and the largest debts in our history to name a few things.

75 celticdragon  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:08:46pm

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #46 abbyadams

I take it very personally, not because I am a physicist - who researches this very topic even - but because I want my children when I have them to have a better future, not a bleak one.

I don’t think the data is bleak. I know it is.

I would not be any definition of man if I did not try to do something.


Absolutely.

76 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:08:51pm

re: #24 theheat

Nobody forced those sane Republicans to vote for these dumbasses. They picked them. They voted for them, just the way they are. Whose fault is that?

If you believe the memes, it’s the fault of Democrats for being so unbearably evil that they’re forced to vote against them. At least, that’s the prevailing opinion I see.

77 celticdragon  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:10:00pm

re: #67 theheat

I need to take a break today. The past few days I’ve probably spent more time here than the past year. For my own sanity, I need to chill the hell out, get some work done, and reconcile the implications of this election with myself. I can’t get this upset - it isn’t healthy. My ears are ringing, my blood pressure is so high. This is not good. That gives people like Limbaugh a stiffy, and I don’t like enabling that kind of fuckery at the expense of my health.

But I will say, since I quit the bitch known as the GOP - most definitively - within 5 minutes of McCain tapping that fundie moron as his VP choice - I see I have less and less in common with the GOP I thought I knew. It’s like not missing an addiction any more.

I was never religious.
I was never anti-science.
I always liked gay people.
I like people of all kinds of colors.
I’m pro choice. Always was.
I’m pro environment. Always was.
I believe animals, too, have a basic level of rights.

Okay, I like guns. I believe in being fiscally conservative. But, aren’t those things saner Democrats like, too? I have to ask myself, just what the FUCK did I ever think I had in common with the GOP? Habit, I guess. Just a stupid habit. My upbringing, I suppose.

So now, probably a lot like Don Quixote, I guess my personal mission is to try to convince my local Dems to butch up and knock these socon sonsabitches back to the dark ages they seem to crave and glorify. Oh, and make sure those fundie freaks stop crawling up women’s uteruses, while I’m being all “idealistic and shit.”

It’s the Dems or that fucking freak show known as the GOP. I’m pitching my tent with the Dems.

Happy Halloween. In the words of that anarchist, Curious Lurker, BBL ;-)


This Also. Too.

78 Vambo  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:10:54pm

re: #76 Renaissance_Man

If you believe the memes, it’s the fault of Democrats for being so unbearably evil that they’re forced to vote against them. At least, that’s the prevailing opinion I see.

The Democrats were so bad, I had to vote for someone even worse!! That’s how much I care about America./

79 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:11:11pm

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I like seeing that. I am actually familiar with Reichert due to my interest in serial killer history. I believe he was the guy who caught Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer so he has my respect for that.

Reichert did NOT catch the green river killer at all, that is myth that he has helped perpetuate for a long long time. He swooped in after and took the credit and made sure to get as many photos as he could with ridgeway and rode that into the House of Representatives. I am in his area, and he is actually suffering from some pretty severe brain injuries due to being hit with a tree branch and many many people have been wondering if he is okay or not anymore. There is serious questions about his cognitive skills.

[Link: www.thestranger.com…]

What Gulianni is to 911 (noun,verb,911) Reichert is to GreenRiver (noun,verb Green River) except he had almost nothing to do with the capture at all.

[Link: slog.thestranger.com…]

Maybe we need to hit the rest of the republicans in the head with tree branch and knock some sense into them as well.

Reichert represents an affluent (and white) and very right-wing district and it is stunning he keeps getting re-elected because he really has never done anything as a Rep.

80 Ericus58  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:12:29pm

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

Please keep in mind that the leaders of your party made very clear that you are a RINO.

Please keep in mind that your party leadership has vowed to make an inquisition against the science to the detriment of us all.

Please keep in mind that they deserve all the scorn we give them and more.

Oh, I am not saying you are wrong for making these points and supporting your statements with facts. I like facts and I’ve learned much here.
Keep posting - all good by me.

81 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:13:29pm

re: #79 Intenzity

Reichert did NOT catch the green river killer at all, that is myth that he has helped perpetuate for a long long time. He swooped in after and took the credit and made sure to get as many photos as he could with ridgeway and rode that into the House of Representatives. I am in his area, and he is actually suffering from some pretty severe brain injuries due to being hit with a tree branch and many many people have been wondering if he is okay or not anymore. There is serious questions about his cognitive skills.

[Link: www.thestranger.com…]

What Gulianni is to 911 (noun,verb,911) Reichert is to GreenRiver (noun,verb Green River) except he had almost nothing to do with the capture at all.

[Link: slog.thestranger.com…]

Maybe we need to hit the rest of the republicans in the head with tree branch and knock some sense into them as well.

Reichert represents an affluent (and white) and very right-wing district and it is stunning he keeps getting re-elected because he really has never done anything as a Rep.

Ah shows what I know. Thanks.

82 Joanne  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:14:06pm

re: #76 Renaissance_Man

If you believe the memes, it’s the fault of Democrats for being so unbearably evil that they’re forced to vote against them. At least, that’s the prevailing opinion I see.

I believe that is the Fox effect of demonizing anything and anyone any way related to any Democrat. If a D is for it (even when those who used to be sane Republican’s were for THE EXACT SAME THING) it is inherently and innately bad. Seven million people watched Fox on election night. What do you think they heard?

And how can we expect any kind of cooperation and doing anything for the country when we are told over and over (by Fox and the wingnuts) that Dems are evil, socialists, Marxists, communists and hell bent on destroying the country? Who would WANT cooperation if you truly believe that, and there are too many people who truly believe that.

83 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:15:26pm

re: #79 Intenzity

A) That article is pretty mean-spirited

B) Brain damage is not an inevitable result of pressure on the brain. It’s not even an inevitable result of actual damage to the brain. An article that speculates wildly about that subject is not going to get any respect out of me.

84 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:17:05pm

I need somebody to sue.

I just banged my head against the wall more than a dozen times in an attempt to rearrange what this post is telling me about the GOP’s intentions into something I can understand.

Both the hole in the wall and the bumps on my head cry out for compensation.

85 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:17:50pm

re: #81 HappyWarrior

No worries, I am actually amazed he is showing signs of leadership on this and actually standing up for something sane. First thing I have heard him do ever, that I liked.

86 Ericus58  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:19:05pm

re: #79 Intenzity

sigh.
well, I guess I won’t put you in the ‘fan boy’ category….

Obicut’s #83 speaks for me.

I have to leave, be well all. I’m off dental time.

87 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:19:27pm

re: #72 Obdicut

It’s a fact that marijuana is a non-addictive substance with substantial medical benefits and minimal negative side effects. This has been a known fact for a long, long time.

It’s still a schedule I drug.

The smoke hasn’t cleared on that fact.

/

88 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:20:20pm

re: #82 JustJay

I believe that is the Fox effect of demonizing anything and anyone any way related to any Democrat. If a D is for it (even when those who used to be sane Republican’s were for THE EXACT SAME THING) it is inherently and innately bad. Seven million people watched Fox on election night. What do you think they heard?

And how can we expect any kind of cooperation and doing anything for the country when we are told over and over (by Fox and the wingnuts) that Dems are evil, socialists, Marxists, communists and hell bent on destroying the country? Who would WANT cooperation if you truly believe that, and there are too many people who truly believe that.

Of course it is. And FOX is only the most recent proponent - this cult started well before, and appeals to a certain mindset.

There are many, too many, who have such a primitive and foolish worldview, a politics based entirely on hatred of their neighbours. Look even at the posters here - there are many folks even here whose politics begin and end with hatred of anything they imagine to be Democrat/the left. They have no other political views, no other guiding principles. Such is life - some people will always be simple.

But they really aren’t that many. I am somewhat heartened by the results of this election, to be honest. Any cult - and the modern American Conservative movement is definitely a cult - will only ever be a minority. And zealous as they are, a minority is most definitely what they are.

89 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:24:15pm

re: #86 Ericus58

sigh.
well, I guess I won’t put you in the ‘fan boy’ category…

Obicut’s #83 speaks for me.

I have to leave, be well all. I’m off dental time.

Going to a dentist huh? Poor sap.

After Tuesday I hate dentists.

90 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:24:40pm

mkelly should be by shortly to remind us that there is still at least one physicist who is skeptical of the consensus on climate change for reasons unspecified.

91 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:25:00pm

re: #83 Obdicut

It’s mean spirited because people here in the area think he is a corpse fucking douche bag for the way he rode on the back of the biggest serial killing in US history for his own political gain.

Think about it - if he was good cop, why was this the worst string of serial killings in the history of the United States, and then the guy didnt even get the death penalty for it. Once you get past the sensationalism, it was a case of the police not really caring who was killing hookers all that much for it to go on as long as it did. It wasn’t like he was crafty, or subtle, or some master criminal, he was picking them up from pretty much the same intersection for years. Washington just put to death a guy for the first time in a long time last month, and he only killed two. Ridgeway killed at least 40, that he can remember, (and that they have found), and he will stay alive until he dies in prison. The whole thing is just a clusterfuck from every angle and that is what this guy built his career on. Reichert is popular in his district, but outside of that…he is not respected at all. So its not really that mean of an article if you get the backstory on him.

92 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:25:01pm

re: #90 MinisterO

Nope. Got banned for lying.

93 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:26:04pm

re: #91 Intenzity

I wasn’t talking about the Green River part, but the speculation about his medical condition, which is really fucking stupid.

94 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:26:13pm

re: #92 Obdicut

Nope. Got banned for lying.

Aw bloody hell. When did that happen?

95 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:26:35pm

re: #92 Obdicut

Nope. Got banned for lying.

I will miss him sooo much… I am all ferklempt….

96 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:26:46pm

re: #94 MinisterO

Aw bloody hell. When did that happen?

Today actually.

97 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:35:46pm

re: #96 LudwigVanQuixote

Today actually.

Well who will be taking his place?

98 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:38:11pm

re: #97 MinisterO

Well who will be taking his place?

I really don’t know what I will do without an ignorant fool abusing science and making troll droppings from WUWT on every scientific post. I am sure I will get over having to explain things like the fact that energy is conserved or how insulators work to morons who would have failed grade school science.

99 lostlakehiker  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:39:03pm

re: #4 LudwigVanQuixote

Once again:

I can and have written quite a lot about how their “science” is just as wrong crazy and stupid on this as it is on evolution. However, the GOP was not always as bought ans sold to the oil companies as it is today and conservative icons once clearly understood the threats.

Reagan, Thatcher and Bush Sr. supported AGW action.

People should really know something of the history of Republican hypocrisy on this.

I really want to point people to the following:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

As Republicans try to re-write their history and pretend that Global Warming is some sort of liberal hoax, it is important to remember that the GOP was not always the party of anti-science hacks (well at least not completely). The next time you hear some Republican claim to be a conservative, ask them why they hate Reagan, Thatcher and Bush senior. By the time James Hansen first testified to Congress in the late 80s, there was really not any major doubt left as to the basic science.

As of now, the only people who deny it are paid propagandists for corporate interests, their hacks, their pet politicians and of course the deluded masses who believe those lies and think that this is somehow a Democratic issue only.

It is all a pack of dangerous and evil lies paid for by people like the Koch brothers.


While we’re on the business of reposting, I’ll quote myself from a comment to LVQ’s page linked above.

Not coincidentally, Reagan, Thatcher, and GHWBush were central players in the end of the cold war. [snip]

Men and women of this caliber are made of the same stuff through and through. They face reality head on. And they don’t reflexively lie. (Never lying is not an option when you’re in the statecraft game.)

This, oh conservative friends, ye who have gone astray on the topic of AGW, is who led us in our greatest hour. These our heroes understood and granted the reality of AGW, back when it wasn’t so brutally, searingly, painfully, killingly obvious as it is now.

Churchill wrote, of war but the metaphor is apt, that Britain could have made its stand when it would have been easy. Or when it would have been feasible without shocking sacrifice. [Where we are now]. Having delayed too long, she must bear a rending struggle with outcome dubious [where we’ll be in 10, 20, 30 years—-the science of how bad it gets how fast is not nailed down sufficiently to say exactly]. Or, Churchill wrote, if action be delayed too long, the fight may have to be conducted against hopeless odds. [Where we’ll be, stuck with a climate that trims billions from the carrying capacity of the earth, if we wait 30, or 20, or 10 years too many.]

Right now, we can build the new infrastructure that will get us out of this fix. It’d be up and running in 20 years, with major parts of it up and running much sooner. The cost would be quite bearable; electricity some 10-20-30 percent more expensive than it would otherwise have seemed, [in reality, and counting the negative climate consequences, mining deaths, strip mining consequences to Appalachia, etc, less expensive].

This should have been the priority of the Bush years. It should have been Obama’s first priority. It can still be something we do, because even Republicans must see the national secur

100 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:40:21pm

re: #88 Renaissance_Man

Of course it is. And FOX is only the most recent proponent - this cult started well before, and appeals to a certain mindset.

There are many, too many, who have such a primitive and foolish worldview, a politics based entirely on hatred of their neighbours. Look even at the posters here - there are many folks even here whose politics begin and end with hatred of anything they imagine to be Democrat/the left. They have no other political views, no other guiding principles. Such is life - some people will always be simple.

But they really aren’t that many. I am somewhat heartened by the results of this election, to be honest. Any cult - and the modern American Conservative movement is definitely a cult - will only ever be a minority. And zealous as they are, a minority is most definitely what they are.

Great post.

101 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:44:34pm

re: #37 UNIXon

Hey, GOP. Thanks for setting us back 400 years.

If nothing gets done about AGW for long enough, try 2,000 years or more.

102 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:44:56pm

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

It’s been quite obvious that the money behind the GOP wanted the science quashed so that they could continue to extract profits to the detriment of us all.

The truly sad thing is that this problem is fixable and even profitable to do so.

Denmark for instance created 200,000 jobs which can not be outsourced by updating their grind and employing wind-farms. They now receive 21% of their power from this free source of energy and billions of dollars that would have left their nation each year, instead stay in their economy and grow it.

Germany, Sweden, Israel and the US Navy have similar - working - programs.

Even from an economic wonk point of view the GOP position is a pack of lies designed to keep certain interests wealthy. The fact that those same interests spent billions of dollars to astroturf against “special interests and government intervention” is an irony that would be beautiful, if there were not also billions of lives at stake.

Doesn’t the USN have a working model of a wind-powered naval warship currently moored in Boston Harbor?

;)

103 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:46:06pm

re: #17 Charles

Inaction on Climate Change Putting Decades of Human Progress at Risk.

PIMF

That is an excellent post. The first people to suffer from this the most will be the poor. The first crops to fail utterly, dustbowls to consume nations places where water will disappear - or coasts flooded with salt water, are ironically the places where people have contributed the least to the problem and have the least to start with. These people are already on the edge. The spread of contagion that will come with AGW will be a licker on top of the drought, starvation and need to migrate.

No right thinking GOP bot would care about their suffering. However, GOP types pretend that once those nations are eaten, it will already not be too late for us. This is a process with a lot of inertia. We are already committed to some very bad things happening. By the time it is apparent to the extent that even brainwashed GOP bots can’t deny it, the US will be signed up for a catastrophe we can not avoid.

The end result is billions of deaths and the collapse of our civilization as we know it, if we do not change course.

104 lostlakehiker  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:46:58pm

re: #64 Intenzity

Richard Feynman used to say “If it was something the average person could understand I wouldn’t have won the Nobel Prize for it”, and these Republicans think all of science is something that one can just pick up along the way, reading a few magazine articles, and that their common sense makes them just as valid and authority as someone who is an actual scientist and has studied a subject for decades. They then turn around and convince millions of people that is how it works, and see, you are just as smart as any ol’ “scientist” and they use logical fallacies that anyone with a semester of a reasoning class would be able to identify to convince people of that untruth.

The scariest thing is…it works.

They are anti-intellectual because it is easier to get dumb, superstitious religious people to do what they are told and to react to someone who takes an authoritarian posture than it is to have to deal with educated people that have all these crazy ideas and can use logic and stuff. THOSE people are the enemies to Republicans. They want a scared, religious population that is easily manipulated and controlled, can be used in perpetual wars and just do what they are told.

It is a mistake to think that the people who are stubbornly refusing to believe the bad news about AGW are just stupid. Many of them are genuinely intelligent, perfectly aware of evolution, good in their work, etc.

Where they go wrong is in trying to reason from motives to scientific conclusions. It’s a somewhat natural crutch. If the science is too hard, why not just go by the apparent motives of the people who are talking about the science?

But the simpler realities of science are not nearly so good at deception as people are. Smart people can be fooled by other smart people. The suckers who fall for the AGW=conspiracy are, many of them, no different from the suckers who invested with Bernie Madoff.

105 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:47:08pm

re: #102 oaktree

Doesn’t the USN have a working model of a wind-powered naval warship currently moored in Boston Harbor?

;)

LOL and one in Baltimore too…

I was referring more to their initiatives for electrical generation of wind power at major bases.

106 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:50:43pm

re: #44 JustJay

That’s what’s killing me on all this obstruction on green technology. I keep reading and hearing from nuts, “What is a GREEN job?” (snicker, snicker, snort) and all kinds of crap like that. Look at the job creation going on in China due to green technology…OUR green technology is being outsourced to China along with all the crap we buy at WalMart because we couldn’t get congress to agree to making the US friendly for start-up or existing green energy companies.

It makes me want to cry. All these jobs which could be here.

That is so correct. This is yet another case of the GOP types convincing the public that they are somehow the economically smart ones when in reality their policies only benefit a few at the top and hurt everyone else.

107 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 1:53:12pm

re: #34 Obdicut

It’s not just pandering. They are actively pushing the disinformation, allied with people like the Koch’s, organizations like the Heritage Foundation, and a lot of the energy companies.

They are intentionally misleading Americans on this subject. Even those Republicans who don’t actively call AGW a fraud very carefully avoid saying that it’s real.

Whether some of them honestly believe God will somehow intervene, whether it’s a cynical and horrifyingly inhuman calculation that the US will weather the effects of AGW better than other nations, or whether it’s pure short-term desire for power, they are creating, as well as benefiting from, the ignorance on this topic.

Excellent post.

108 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:06:19pm

re: #104 lostlakehiker

It is a mistake to think that the people who are stubbornly refusing to believe the bad news about AGW are just stupid. Many of them are genuinely intelligent, perfectly aware of evolution, good in their work, etc.

The suckers who fall for the AGW=conspiracy are, many of them, no different from the suckers who invested with Bernie Madoff.

I gotta disagree with you on this…no, they are stupid.

They will climb into their car with anti-lock brakes and air-bags and they trust science for allowing them to go 60 mps in a steel box and to have a pretty good chance of surviving if something goes wrong. They like that kind of science. They will pick up their cell-phone and use that call someone, they like that kind of science and trust that fine. They like their night vision scope, on thier .50 cal rifle, and their kevlar vests. All THOSE applications of physics, materials sciences, chemist and the scientific method are fine. Hell, they will bet their life on them.

But that same exact discipline applied to climate change…all of sudden its, hmm well its fallible, you cant trust it, C02 is good for the environment, the ice sheets aren’t melting. All that trust and love for science goes right out the window.

A smart person knows, that all things being equal, if the principles of science are in fact being adhered to, then science is science. Another feynmen quote is “it doesnt matter how smart you are, if it disagrees with experiment it is wrong”. And so”smart” people know you can’t just pick the answers you like from science, just the ones that fit your world view. “Smart” people don’t think like that. They know how science works. Its not right sometimes, if the evidence is followed and the process is done correctly, the answers are what the answers are, like them or not. Smart people know this.

And the people that fell for Madoff were greedy. There were many many people saying “there is no way to return 20% every year when the NASDAQ/DOW are only doing 5%, it can’t happen, its a scam” and what happened. Those people lost everything. Just like the fools that are greedy now, except it is not just THIER money they are betting with, it is the only planet we got, so it is not theirs to invest in whatever ponzi scheme they want.

People who, in 2010, cannot understand that man has had a role in the changing climate on planet earth are either a) lazy or b) stupid. There is no third choice unless it is c) lazy and stupid. Those are the only explanations, because if you exert the energy, the evidence is overwhelming, and if you fail to believe it then you are just stupid. Actually, there is a third answer, C) greedy and lying, which is what most of these Koch Bros. funded guys are.

There is only one single scientific organization on planet earth that has issued a statement saying that there is NOT clear evidence that man has a role in the changing climate and it is the Society for Petroleum Engineers. Shocker.

109 Gus  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:06:43pm

Image: gopscienceandtechnology.jpg

110 JeffFX  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:13:09pm

re: #76 Renaissance_Man

If you believe the memes, it’s the fault of Democrats for being so unbearably evil that they’re forced to vote against them. At least, that’s the prevailing opinion I see.

And it’s usually “evil” from a superstitious standpoint, not evil as in destructive toward humanity.

111 MinisterO  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:16:38pm

Here’s a story I’d like to recount. There is a point.

Around 2002 a company called SCO started making noise that IBM had improperly contributed millions of lines of code belonging to SCO to the open-source Linux kernel. SCO sent letters to hundreds of companies threatening lawsuits if they did not pay a license fee of around $1000 for each copy of Linux they were using.

The open-source community was furious. They knew the claims were false, or at least severely overblown. SCO repeatedly refused to show any evidence.

Reporters covering the story knew little about open-source software or copyright law. They dutifully reported SCOs claims. The representatives of SCO were attractive, cheerful, friendly and polite. They didn’t talk down to reporters. And they bought lunch.

The open-source people were angry and defensive about the attack on their integrity. They didn’t respect their accusers. They didn’t show much patience with the clueless reporters. They didn’t buy lunch.

Unsurprisingly, the press coverage was dominated by SCOs story, with a great deal of editorializing on SCO’s ironclad case.

Of course SCO never had a case. In 2005 the judge presiding over the case wrote

“Viewed against the backdrop of SCO’s plethora of public statements concerning IBM’s and others’ infringement of SCO’s purported copyrights to the Unix software, it is astonishing that SCO has not offered any competent evidence to create a disputed fact regarding whether IBM has infringed SCO’s alleged copyrights through IBM’s Linux activities.”

112 JeffFX  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:18:55pm

re: #101 LudwigVanQuixote

If nothing gets done about AGW for long enough, try 2,000 years or more.

If civilization collapses, “more” may be an infinite understatement. We’ve already used the cheap resources, so it’s a lot less likely for an industrial civilization like ours to rise in the future if we collapse. We need to transition to the hard stuff like nuclear and solar, and keep civilization from collapsing never to return.

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:18:58pm

re: #20 Tigger2

I just want to know when sane Republicans are going to say, I”VE HAD ENOUGH
And quit electing these 18 century politicians.

They won’t.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:19:21pm

re: #113 WindUpBird

at least, not in numbers sufficient enough to change….whatever it is we’re seeing here

115 Jack Fate  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:23:04pm

AGW is just not settled science. You see, there is this retired dentist I know who doesn’t believe in it and since he is a scientist I trust his view more than any list of climate researchers.

116 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:24:48pm

Report: Arab world faces worsening water crisis

Climate change will aggravate matters. By the end of this century, Arab countries may experience a 25% drop in precipitation and a 25% increase in evaporation rates, according to climate change models cited in the report.

Attention Republicans: Thirsty Arab countries are not good news for middle east stability.

117 JeffFX  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:28:24pm

re: #115 Jack Fate

AGW is just not settled science. You see, there is this retired dentist I know who doesn’t believe in it and since he is a scientist I trust his view more than any list of climate researchers.

If you want someone with credentials to support an anti-reality view, you go to a dentist or an engineer. It works for AGW and Creationism.

118 simoom  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:31:00pm

Rove dancing in the endzone with energy pooh-bahs:

[Link: www.philly.com…]

Karl Rove, the Republican operative and former senior adviser to President George W. Bush, today told an appreciative Marcellus Shale natural gas conference that the sweeping Republican victory on Tuesday would put an end to most of the industry’s legislative threats.

Rove said a new Republican House of Representatives supportive of the energy industry “sure as heck” would not pass climate-change legislation that the outgoing Democratic Congress had been unable to pass.

“Climate is gone,” said Rove, the keynote speaker on the opening day of a two-day shale-gas conference sponsored by Hart Energy Publishing L.L.P. And Rove told the trade show, “I don’t think you need to worry” the new Congress will consider proposed legislation to put the controversial practice of hydraulic fracturing under federal rather than state regulation. The procedure, known as “fracking,” is responsible for the dramatic growth of shale-gas drilling in formations such as Pennsylvania’s vast Marcellus Shale.

And some more details from today on Rove’s midterm efforts:

[Link: today.msnbc.msn.com…]

A substantial portion of Crossroads GPS’ money came from a small circle of extremely wealthy Wall Street hedge fund and private equity moguls, according to GOP fundraising sources who spoke with NBC News on condition of anonymity. These donors have been bitterly opposed to a proposal by congressional Democrats — and endorsed by the Obama administration — to increase the tax rates on compensation that hedge funds pay their partners, the sources said.
…
In addition to the spending advantage, outside GOP groups like the Crossroads groups, Americans for Prosperity and Club for Growth coordinated their efforts, divvying up which groups would spend in which races at which times. The groups’ leaders would meet and talk regularly in sessions often led by Rove or one of his associates, according to the two GOP fundraising sources familiar with how the organizations worked.
119 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:35:02pm

re: #118 simoom

Openly conspiring to undermine democracy.

Yay.

120 simoom  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:43:39pm

re: #119 Obdicut

One thing I wonder with respect to Rove… is there any precedent for a major news organization to have a political operative on their payroll at the same time that operative is actively involved in major, national, partisan political activities? What I mean is you’d think their analysis would be pretty worthless as their concurrent partisan actives would make anything they’d have to say completely suspect.

121 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:46:40pm

Why wouldn’t they follow their script? It works so well for them.

122 FriarsTale  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 4:09:06pm

re: #120 simoom

One thing I wonder with respect to Rove… is there any precedent for a major news organization to have a political operative on their payroll at the same time that operative is actively involved in major, national, partisan political activities? What I mean is you’d think their analysis would be pretty worthless as their concurrent partisan actives would make anything they’d have to say completely suspect.


George Stephanopoulos at ABC?

123 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 4:14:08pm

re: #122 FriarsTale

at the same time

124 Intenzity  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 4:43:21pm

re: #93 Obdicut

I wasn’t talking about the Green River part, but the speculation about his medical condition, which is really fucking stupid.

ahh. sorry.

125 eachus  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 8:03:10am

re: #112 JeffFX

If civilization collapses, “more” may be an infinite understatement. We’ve already used the cheap resources, so it’s a lot less likely for an industrial civilization like ours to rise in the future if we collapse. We need to transition to the hard stuff like nuclear and solar, and keep civilization from collapsing never to return.

First, I want to say that humans should worry much more about the effects of high CO2 levels on humans, not just the climate. I happen to think that (3d) climate models which show little or no net warming from CO2 forcing. (But warmer polar regions and cooler tropics mean that sea level rise is still a major issue.) However, since humans did not evolve to breathe even current levels of CO2, I see it as a major health risk.

Second, America is not sitting still on CO2 control, but “cap and trade” is very bad economics. A tax of so much a ton on CO2 emissions? Fine. But cap and trade gives licenses to existing CO2 emitters then allows them to sell them to others if they reduce their own emissions. So to give just one extreme example, a new hydro-electric dam would need to find indulgences for sale so they could pour the concrete. Once you realize that cap and trade is a get rich quick scheme for existing polluters, it loses its luster.

Which brings me back to JeffFX’s post. The world needs to switch to non-oil sources of energy. (If for no other reason than oil will run out.) I am a big fan of more nuclear power, I have nothing against solar, but I think coal of any flavor is the pits. (Wind power, hydro-electric, and OTEC can all be considered indirect solar. I also like tidal power plants in the few areas where they are efficient.) The US economy is doing pretty good at converting, and in fact the EPA Democratic members of Congress have been some of the biggest roadblocks to wind power installations. (I just read a silly recommendation that wind power turbines switch on at a slightly higher wind speed to prevent harm to bats. Seems to me mounting an ultrasonic whistle on each blade is an even better solution. Might help with bird kills too.)

126 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 10:31:33am

re: #125 eachus

First, I want to say that humans should worry much more about the effects of high CO2 levels on humans, not just the climate. I happen to think that (3d) climate models which show little or no net warming from CO2 forcing.

This is simply not true. If you wish to make the argument that the warming caused by CO2 concentrations themselves, directly are outstripped by the feedbacks they cause, like loss of albedo, increased water vapor (which is a worse GHG) current shifts, ocean anoxia and methane release, you would be correct. However, the sum of the forcing and the feed back is quite catastrophic far beyond simple sea level rise. Those feedbacks are caused by the CO2 forcing. What you wrote is just simply not true and it deeply underestimates the dangers involved.

(But warmer polar regions and cooler tropics mean that sea level rise is still a major issue.) However, since humans did not evolve to breathe even current levels of CO2, I see it as a major health risk.

As to the health risk, in terms of breathing, the increased CO2 concentration is not so bad in of itself. Far more concerning is that CO2 saturation of the oceans and pollution, is and has been producing a steady decline in oxygen concentrations for the last 100 years, because we are killing off the microrganisms that make most of our O2.

A much more substantial risk in terms of public health, is that as climates shift, disease vectors migrate to new areas where populations do not have immunities. We are already seeing Dengue fever in Italy, Spain and Southern France for instance.

Second, America is not sitting still on CO2 control, but “cap and trade” is very bad economics.

When it was a Reagan initiative to cut acid rain, it actually worked quite well. When Bush Sr. enacted it, despite all the wailing from paper companies, they did not go out of business. However, I agree that it is a stop gap and not a solution in of itself.

A tax of so much a ton on CO2 emissions? Fine. But cap and trade gives licenses to existing CO2 emitters then allows them to sell them to others if they reduce their own emissions. So to give just one extreme example, a new hydro-electric dam would need to find indulgences for sale so they could pour the concrete. Once you realize that cap and trade is a get rich quick scheme for existing polluters, it loses its luster.

The current iteration of it certainly became that way after the GOP gutted it.

Which brings me back to JeffFX’s post. The world needs to switch to non-oil sources of energy. (If for no other reason than oil will run out.) I am a big fan of more nuclear power, I have nothing against solar, but I think coal of any flavor is the pits. (Wind power, hydro-electric, and OTEC can all be considered indirect solar. I also like tidal power plants in the few areas where they are efficient.) The US economy is doing pretty good at converting, and in fact the EPA Democratic members of Congress have been some of the biggest roadblocks to wind power installations. (I just read a silly recommendation that wind power turbines switch on at a slightly higher wind speed to prevent harm to bats. Seems to me mounting an ultrasonic whistle on each blade is an even better solution. Might help with bird kills too.)

The NIMBY aspect of wind from both sides is beyond agitating.

127 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 10:32:48am

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

re: #125 eachus

Which brings me back to JeffFX’s post. The world needs to switch to non-oil sources of energy. (If for no other reason than oil will run out.) I am a big fan of more nuclear power, I have nothing against solar, but I think coal of any flavor is the pits. (Wind power, hydro-electric, and OTEC can all be considered indirect solar. I also like tidal power plants in the few areas where they are efficient.) The US economy is doing pretty good at converting, and in fact the EPA Democratic members of Congress have been some of the biggest roadblocks to wind power installations. (I just read a silly recommendation that wind power turbines switch on at a slightly higher wind speed to prevent harm to bats. Seems to me mounting an ultrasonic whistle on each blade is an even better solution. Might help with bird kills too.)

The NIMBY aspect of wind from both sides is beyond agitating to me. No argument there.

128 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 3:42:39pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Goddamn communist China is ahead of us on the science of AGW.

Except for their one-party system, I don’t know what’s “communist” about China these days.

129 Joe Katzman  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 7:00:32pm

“The GOP’s fire will be concentrated especially on the administration’s efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency’s authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.”

Most reasonably so. The EPA was way over the line. If a bureaucracy responds to a contentious political issue that the politicians are not resolving, by attempting to enact one side’s agenda by stealth, it’s setting itself up for a big, big fall. The political tide turned. Cue the fall.

Notice that I am making no reference at all to the issue’s content or even nature - because IT DOESN’T MATTER. This is a basic principle that government departments need to internalize and live by, and having those that don’t understand it become cautionary tales is a good sign of free government.

Win these issues on the political battlefield, or keep trying until you (a) quit the issue or (b) finally build the right bridges/ convince people/ otherwise win. Accept no substitutes. In fact, trash those trying to sell you substitutes.

This is inconvenient to true believers in a given issue, but makes for governance that is actually accountable.


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