Anti-Health Care GOP Freshman Demands Immediate Government Health Care

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Tea Party Republican Andy Harris wants his government health care and he wants it now. He’s special, you see; not like the rest of the American population.

A conservative Maryland physician elected to Congress on an anti-Obamacare platform surprised fellow freshmen at a Monday orientation session by demanding to know why his government-subsidized health care plan takes a month to kick in.

Republican Andy Harris, an anesthesiologist who defeated freshman Democrat Frank Kratovil on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, reacted incredulously when informed that federal law mandated that his government-subsidized health care policy would take effect on Feb. 1 – 28 days after his Jan. 3rd swearing-in.

“He stood up and asked the two ladies who were answering questions why it had to take so long, what he would do without 28 days of health care,” said a congressional staffer who saw the exchange. The benefits session, held behind closed doors, drew about 250 freshman members, staffers and family members to the Capitol Visitors Center auditorium late Monday morning,”.

“Harris then asked if he could purchase insurance from the government to cover the gap,” added the aide, who was struck by the similarity to Harris’s request and the public option he denounced as a gateway to socialized medicine.

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123 comments
1 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:43:59am

I started a new job yesterday and my healthcare benefits do not start until Jan. 1, 2011.

However, I qualify immediately for bereavement pay and leave. (Found that out the hard way)

2 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:44:24am

Fucking hypocrits.

3 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:45:27am

And he's an anesthesiologist for Johns Hopkins no less. What a mooch.

4 JRCMYP  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:46:30am

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

5 elizajane  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:46:43am

He was just drawing attention to the terrible inadequacy of a government-run plan! (This is what his office really claims.)

Because of course no private plan would ever, ever have a delay between the day you started working and the day your insurance plan kicked in.

//

6 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:47:54am

I say give all the members of Congress ObamaCare and nothing else.

7 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:48:53am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking hypocrits.

Need an adjective that goes beyond the f-bomb to describe this level of hypocrisy...

8 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:49:46am

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

What do you mean by Obamacare?

9 nines09  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:51:35am

What a fucking tool. Another Tea Bag comes clean.

10 Nick Schroeder  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:52:04am

re: #8 Obdicut

What do you mean by Obamacare?

Socialism, Nazis, and wolverines, most likely.

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:53:51am

I commented on the pages about this:

The very first thing - and the only thing - that libertarians think of is themselves. He has no desire to pay for someone else's health care. That would be evil socialism! But by Jove - he wants his actually paid for by the taxpayer healthcare for himself.

Why can't he just buy his own? That's what he wants you and me to do. He's an anesthesiologist from Johns Hopkins. He isn't poor. He certainly isn't poor compared to most Americans, whom he feels should have no coverage.

The essence of libertarians seems to be wanting all of the benefits of the social contract with none of the duty.

Libertarians are parasites.

12 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:53:58am

Read this, this morning. and I LMFAO'd

13 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:55:22am

Here is something for the TPers;

Lisa Murkowski Takes the Lead over Joe Miller in Alaska Senate Race

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) on Monday officially took the lead in her drawn out re-election bid against Republican challenger Joe Miller.

State officials have counted the bulk of the more than 102,000 write-in ballots cast in the Senate election, and 92,164 have gone to Murkowski, the Anchorage Daily News reports. That gives her an edge over Miller, who received 90,458 votes.

More than 8,000 write-in ballots remain to be counted, but if the trend continues, the Republican incumbent will have pulled off a long-shot victory in her write-in re-election campaign.

Lisa Murkowski: Sarah Palin is no leader

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski said she would not support Sarah Palin if she decides to seek the presidency because the former governor lacks the "intellectual curiosity" for the job.

"I just do not think she has those leadership qualities, that intellectual curiosity that allows for building good and great policies," Murkowski told Katie Couric in a "CBS Evening News" interview. "You know, she was my governor for two years, for just about two years there, and I don't think that she enjoyed governing. I don't think she liked to get down into the policy."

14 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:55:39am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking hypocrits.

re: #7 Taqyia2Me

Need an adjective that goes beyond the f-bomb to describe this level of hypocrisy...

HIPPAcrite! (To continue the discussion from the previous thread)

15 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:55:53am

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

I say give all the members of Congress ObamaCare and nothing else.

so... you want all members of congress to 1) get insurance companies not being able to deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions, and also 2) they are required to buy private health insurance if they don't have some other form of health insurance?

16 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:56:07am

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

He's an anesthesiologist from Johns Hopkins.

Well, he should knock himself out, then.

17 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:57:03am

re: #16 wrenchwench

You win the thread.

18 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:57:18am

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

In case you missed it the man is a republican.

19 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:57:46am

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

In the case of libertarians, I think it really is a case of true scotsmen.

The actual ideology of 'libertarianism'-- which is a category so broad it includes anarcho-capitalism and socialist libertarianism-- is that the maximization of individual freedom is the greatest good.

Most people who call themselves libertarians do not have this as their ideology, but instead have the ideology that the government should be small and have less power than it does now. They don't tend to consider whether or not the government has profound roles in safeguarding individual liberty.

Most people who claim to be libertarians are minarchists. And, as this story shows, most of them are minarchists right up until they need or want something from the government.

20 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 9:58:09am

re: #8 Obdicut

What do you mean by Obamacare?

He has no clue.

Let's do the experiment.

Hockey Puck, what are the measures of Obama care? What is covered by it? What isn't? What is so lacking in the coverage after Obamacare compared to what was before?

Do you think that fewer people have access to medical treatments now in this nation or more?

Is the government providing the insurance in general, or is it still mostly private companies who now have to deal with more competition from each other and have more restrictions on who they can screw over?

Are more covered now or less?

Seriously, Puck, try to answer those questions.

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:00:33am

re: #18 RogueOne

In case you missed it the man is a republican.

He is a teabag libertarian Republican - not to mince words.

22 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:00:35am

Where was he getting coverage before latching onto the taxpayer funded teat?

Try COBRA like the rest of us citizens.

23 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:00:55am

I love how people who scream about rationed healthcare have no problem with most emergency procedures being so expensive it is a serious financial burden for most Americans to receive them.

24 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:01:14am

re: #19 Obdicut

one very popular definition of "libertarianism" among the wingeratti seems to be "mommy can't make me!"

25 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:01:47am

re: #19 Obdicut

The actual ideology of 'libertarianism'-- which is a category so broad it includes anarcho-capitalism and socialist libertarianism-- is that the maximization of individual freedom is the greatest good.

Most people who call themselves libertarians do not have this as their ideology, but instead have the ideology that the government should be small and have less power than it does now. They don't tend to consider whether or not the government has profound roles in safeguarding individual liberty.

QFT.

26 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:01:57am

re: #17 publicityStunted

You win the thread.

What am I going to do with another thread?

27 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:03:05am

re: #19 Obdicut

In the case of libertarians, I think it really is a case of true scotsmen.

The actual ideology of 'libertarianism'-- which is a category so broad it includes anarcho-capitalism and socialist libertarianism-- is that the maximization of individual freedom is the greatest good.

Most people who call themselves libertarians do not have this as their ideology, but instead have the ideology that the government should be small and have less power than it does now. They don't tend to consider whether or not the government has profound roles in safeguarding individual liberty.

Most people who claim to be libertarians are minarchists. And, as this story shows, most of them are minarchists right up until they need or want something from the government.

While you are absolutely correct. I really don't think that quibbling over the words is quite germane to this case. The teabag libertarians are of a very specific ilk and they are in the majority. The ones out there who are some form of far left whacko anarchist are far outnumbered by those who simply like to use big words to cloak their greed and sense of exclusion from social duty in terms that sound patriotic.

28 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:04:11am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I love how people who scream about rationed healthcare have no problem with most emergency procedures being so expensive it is a serious financial burden for most Americans to receive them.

Family I know had a newborn that needed heart surgery earlier this year. Everything went almost perfect and the child came home 12 days later. He's doing great. :)

Total bill so far: $167,000+

29 cliffster  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:04:53am

so, the guy is irritated that his new employer doesn't start his coverage for a month, and that makes him a hypocrite. haha

30 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:05:17am

I just finished making over $1000 in payments not covered by my "cadillac" health plans for my family. I've been making payments on the amounts not covered by said plans co-pays and deductibles for a year now and have just managed to get out from under the debt.

The regulations and formulas of the various private plans I'm enrolled in were so intricate and confusing that I couldn't tell if we really owed the amounts or not. (We thought we'd paid our portion up front in several cases). After losing arguments with the provider and insurance company (who both pointed at each other to solve the issue) I finally got one collections agency to settle for .80 on the dollar.

I still have $1000 more on Care Credit that needs to be paid down.

This tool can eat me.

31 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:05:27am

re: #28 SteveC

Family I know had a newborn that needed heart surgery earlier this year. Everything went almost perfect and the child came home 12 days later. He's doing great. :)

Total bill so far: $167,000+

Now remember, if you are Republican, it is your duty to not feel a duty to help that fmily if you can.

32 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:06:32am

re: #31 LudwigVanQuixote

Now remember, if you are Republican, it is your duty to not feel a duty to help that fmily if you can.

If they couldn't afford to have a sick baby, it's their fault for getting pregnant in the first place.

/

33 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:06:43am

re: #29 cliffster

so, the guy is irritated that his new employer doesn't start his coverage for a month, and that makes him a hypocrite. haha

Shooter 29, you're firing into the berm.

34 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:06:43am

re: #29 cliffster

so, the guy is irritated that his new employer doesn't start his coverage for a month, and that makes him a hypocrite. haha

Did you miss this part?

“Harris then asked if he could purchase insurance from the government to cover the gap,” added the aide, who was struck by the similarity to Harris’s request and the public option he denounced as a gateway to socialized medicine.
35 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:07:21am

re: #29 cliffster

so, the guy is irritated that his new employer doesn't start his coverage for a month, and that makes him a hypocrite. haha


No. The fact that he ran on a platform of smaller government and less taxes and is upset that he has to make up the difference between his former employer and his current employer paying his health care costs for 30 days like the rest of us plebes is what is hypocritical.

36 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:07:26am

re: #14 SteveC

re: #7 Taqyia2Me

HIPPAcrite! (To continue the discussion from the previous thread)

I was thinking that myself. Apparently the notion of doing no harm does not apply to making policies that cause harm. I was looking for a good way to phrase it.

You got it perfectly.

37 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:08:35am

re: #31 LudwigVanQuixote

Now remember, if you are Republican, it is your duty to not feel a duty to help that fmily if you can.

I can't afford much myself, so that is not a problem. According to my email, I'm the only person left not getting rich off of eBay sales. Sucks to be me.

38 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:09:09am

re: #27 LudwigVanQuixote

39 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:09:21am

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

I was thinking that myself. Apparently the notion of doing no harm does not apply to making policies that cause harm. I was looking for a good way to phrase it.

You got it perfectly.

Part of the problem is that any policy will harm someone, either through reduced access to care or in increased costs to deal with new regulation or some other result. Risk/Reward comparison is what should be the issue, as no matter what, someone's gonna be unhappy.

40 bodrules  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:09:28am

Meh, politician in hypocrisy shock, more things change the more they stay the same. Well except for the wing nuts who seems to get nuttier by the day. But look on the bright side, in Victorian times you used to have to pay an entrance fee to get into loony bins, now they are brought right into your home for free courtesy of the Internet.

:-)

41 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:09:36am

re: #37 SteveC

I can't afford much myself, so that is not a problem. According to my email, I'm the only person left not getting rich off of eBay sales. Sucks to be me.

I'm waiting for my check from the Nigerian Deputy Minister of Finances to come in.

42 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:09:42am

re: #1 Alouette

I started a new job yesterday and my healthcare benefits do not start until Jan. 1, 2011.

However, I qualify immediately for bereavement pay and leave. (Found that out the hard way)

How are you doing?

43 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:10:18am

if the republican party is against social security and medicare, why do they continue to lie about it and say they want to save it?

44 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:10:59am

re: #43 engineer dog

if the republican party is against social security and medicare, why do they continue to lie about it and say they want to save it?

Keeps the old folks in line.

45 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:11:29am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm waiting for my check from the Nigerian Deputy Minister of Finances to come in.

People tell me that one day my ship will come in. Your check could be on my ship, you know.

46 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:12:38am

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Keeps the old folks in line.

they better not get me too angry or i'll gum them to death

47 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:12:41am

re: #38 Obdicut

Grr:

To put it succiently:

Most people calling themselves 'libertarians' are as much 'libertarians' as sixteen year old kids wearing Che shirts are communists or a random guy with a pair of bongos and body odor is a beatnik.

They're almost all just minarchists, which isn't even a philosophy. It's just the reflexive shouting that government should be smaller. It doesn't involve actually understanding how the government or society functions.

48 Mentis Fugit  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:12:43am

He's got his trotters in the trough, as Die Gnädige Frau is wont to say.

49 cliffster  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:13:36am

re: #35 DaddyG

No. The fact that he ran on a platform of smaller government and less taxes and is upset that he has to make up the difference between his former employer and his current employer paying his health care costs for 30 days like the rest of us plebes is what is hypocritical.

I didn't have to wait 30 days when I got my job. If I had, I would have been pissed. I guess that makes me a hypocrite too.

50 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:14:01am

re: #39 PT Barnum

Part of the problem is that any policy will harm someone, either through reduced access to care or in increased costs to deal with new regulation or some other result. Risk/Reward comparison is what should be the issue, as no matter what, someone's gonna be unhappy.

Truth. However, the GOP seems to be very interested in keeping the insurance companies happy the most. This is always going to be a terrible policy, because they are the one completely parasitic entity on th system that provides no health care for the dollars they take out of it.

Think about it. By simple definition, their profits are something that is not going to treating people or paying for procedures. They do not provide a service. They take in more money than is spent on medicine and keep it for themselves. How else could we as a nation spend so substantially more on health care than any other - yet have such a shitty place in the rankings?

It is because out of every dollar we spend some large number of cents goes into the pockets of parasites who make their money off of the fear and misery of others while producing no actual product themselves.

If you were to cut them out of the middle suddenly many healthcare issues would have money to be thrown at them.

51 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:14:14am

re: #47 Obdicut

Grr:

To put it succiently:

Most people calling themselves 'libertarians' are as much 'libertarians' as sixteen year old kids wearing Che shirts are communists or a random guy with a pair of bongos and body odor is a beatnik.

They're almost all just minarchists, which isn't even a philosophy. It's just the reflexive shouting that government should be smaller. It doesn't involve actually understanding how the government or society functions.

They're Brick Tamlins. They hear someone they like yelling, so they join in as well.

"I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT! LOUD NOISES!"

52 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:14:24am

re: #49 cliffster

It would, if in the interview you said you didn't want the company providing healthcare. Don't play stupid.

53 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:14:26am

re: #20 LudwigVanQuixote

He has no clue.

Let's do the experiment.

Hockey Puck, what are the measures of Obama care? What is covered by it? What isn't? What is so lacking in the coverage after Obamacare compared to what was before?

Do you think that fewer people have access to medical treatments now in this nation or more?

Is the government providing the insurance in general, or is it still mostly private companies who now have to deal with more competition from each other and have more restrictions on who they can screw over?

Are more covered now or less?

Seriously, Puck, try to answer those questions.

I would love to talk about it with you but I have no time today. My mom is coming down to visit for a week so I have lots to do here.

BTW...since you have no idea what is in the bill here is the link.

Notice who exempted themselves from the bill...the staff who wrote it. It's in the bill itself. If this is such a wonderful bill why in the world would they exempt themselves? Also why have 111 companies & unions been issued waivers from it? Go ahead Einstein, answer that.

54 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:15:01am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

You could have just said that you can't answer the question.

55 schnapp  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:15:03am

re: #27 LudwigVanQuixote

Being a libertarian doesn't automatically make you greedy, selfish and uncaring. There are many people of goodwill who call themselves libertarian. The word libertarian only exists because it replaced the word liberal when people got th.e meaning wrong

56 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:15:12am

So here's how it works. If you're a congressman you get to have a "Cadillac Insurance" plan on the "public dole" while at the same time speaking out again public health insurance while claiming it would put people on the "public dole."

This just in. All of those Teabagger congressmen entering congress this month are now officially "government workers".

57 bodrules  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:15:13am

re: #28 SteveC

Family I know had a newborn that needed heart surgery earlier this year. Everything went almost perfect and the child came home 12 days later. He's doing great. :)

Hope the little one makes a full recovery

Total bill so far: $167,000+

Bloody hell, I take the insurance company will pick up the tab?

At least here in the UK we don't have to worry about that, and yes I know the NHS isn't perfect, but for all it's failings I'd still rather have it than something where not only do you have to worry about loss of earnings when you're ill, but whether the insurance is going to cough up or if you're going to have to sell the house to meet the medical bills.

58 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:15:44am

re: #49 cliffster

I didn't have to wait 30 days when I got my job. If I had, I would have been pissed. I guess that makes me a hypocrite too.

During your interview, did you present yourself as an employee who didn't want the company healthcare plan and said no one should have one before you got hired?

59 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:15:49am

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They're Brick Tamlins. They hear someone they like yelling, so they join in as well.

"I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT! LOUD NOISES!"

"WHAT DID THAT S.O.B. SAY?"

//

60 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:16:05am

re: #47 Obdicut

Grr:

To put it succiently:

Most people calling themselves 'libertarians' are as much 'libertarians' as sixteen year old kids wearing Che shirts are communists or a random guy with a pair of bongos and body odor is a beatnik.

They're almost all just minarchists, which isn't even a philosophy. It's just the reflexive shouting that government should be smaller. It doesn't involve actually understanding how the government or society functions.

This is the essence of what I said in my first post about wanting the benefits of the social contracts, but none of the duties.

We really are not disagreeing.

I don't mean to put down your point. It's a good point. It is just that neither of us seem to be talking about the small groups where those distinctions you talked about actually apply.

61 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:16:41am

re: #56 Gus 802

So here's how it works. If you're a congressman you get to have a "Cadillac Insurance" plan on the "public dole" while at the same time speaking out again public health insurance while claiming it would put people on the "public dole."

This just in. All of those Teabagger congressmen entering congress this month are now officially "government workers".

THOSE BASTARDS! FLOG THEM!

62 cliffster  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:16:48am

re: #52 McSpiff

It would, if in the interview you said you didn't want the company providing healthcare. Don't play stupid.

no, you're right.. anyone who did not support the HCR bill ever can complain about health care again for the rest of their lives ever

63 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:16:55am

re: #49 cliffster

I didn't have to wait 30 days when I got my job. If I had, I would have been pissed. I guess that makes me a hypocrite too.

How many years have you been at this particular job?

64 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:17:04am

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THOSE BASTARDS! FLOG THEM!

Socialists!

65 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:17:15am

re: #59 SteveC

"WHAT DID THAT S.O.B. SAY?"

//

I think he said something about your mother. You should go tell him off.

66 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:17:25am

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THOSE BASTARDS! FLOG THEM!

At once, my Lord!

67 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:18:02am

re: #42 LudwigVanQuixote

How are you doing?

I leave for the airport in another hour.

I am still basically in a shutdown mode. I went in to work this morning to pick up my new badge (My ID photo looks like shit) then they told me to go home. I am basically useless right now for anything productive.

7 of my kids (including my daughter from Israel) are going to be in LA with me.

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:18:14am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

So in other words you have no clue (as usual). The experiment seems to corroborate the hypothesis.

When you get back from whatever... rather than linking to the bill, could you answer the specific questions which were posed to you? That would show you actually understood the bill and read some of it.

Let's do another experiment.

The hypothesis is that he won't.

69 cliffster  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:18:30am

re: #58 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

During your interview, did you present yourself as an employee who didn't want the company healthcare plan and said no one should have one before you got hired?

he is going to be a government employee. I guess I missed the part of the health care debate where republicans were arguing that government employees should not get health care provided by their employer, the government.

70 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:18:43am

re: #62 cliffster

no, you're right.. anyone who did not support the HCR bill ever can complain about health care again for the rest of their lives ever

If you complain about the government providing healthcare, to later complain that the government isn't giving you healthcare fast enough, that would indeed make you a hypocrite. Again, don't play stupid. You're embarrassing yourself.

71 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:19:09am

re: #62 cliffster

no, you're right.. anyone who did not support the HCR bill ever can complain about health care again for the rest of their lives ever

...

72 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:19:21am

re: #60 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh, agreed. I just don't want them to have the dignity of the word 'libertarian' to hide behind. I want to call them what they are-- minarchists. Mindless minarchists who simply reflexively say that government should be smaller. Always just 'smaller'. Can never actually translate that into policy positions.

I wish every time one of those fools typed 'I'm a libertarian', Google spellchecker changed it into 'I'm a person who doesn't understand either democracy or capitalism but likes to claim I'm a champion of both.'

73 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:19:55am

re: #56 Gus 802

All of those Teabagger congressmen entering congress this month are now officially "government workers".

As a government worker I can assure you "worker" is not the best term to describe the professional legislator class. It also makes me cringe when they describe themselves as "public servants".

74 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:20:05am

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

So in other words you have no clue (as usual). The experiment seems to corroborate the hypothesis.

When you get back from whatever... rather than linking to the bill, could you answer the specific questions which were posed to you? That would show you actually understood the bill and read some of it.

Let's do another experiment.

The hypothesis is that he won't.

I guess you have no answer either.

Touche.

75 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:20:07am

re: #69 cliffster

he is going to be a government employee. I guess I missed the part of the health care debate where republicans were arguing that government employees should not get health care provided by their employer, the government.

So they want the government to cut spending, but only that which doesn't benefit them. Pretty sure that still makes them blatant hypocrites.

76 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:20:21am

While I got a laugh out of this as well, I was concerned

The benefits session, held behind closed doors

.....and it was an unidentified congressional staffer as a source. Just saying we should have a little healthy skepticism on this report.

77 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:20:33am

re: #55 schnapp

Being a libertarian doesn't automatically make you greedy, selfish and uncaring. There are many people of goodwill who call themselves libertarian. The word libertarian only exists because it replaced the word liberal when people got th.e meaning wrong

Fine then to be specific - the current crop of GOP people who claim libertarian philosophy - even if they themselves can not define it. It is very disheartening to see a clear and obvious point, with a clear and obvious subject (that everyone knows what is being talked about) get derailed by pedantic quibbles over phraseology. It is not like I said something from Mars.

78 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:20:58am

re: #72 Obdicut

Oh, agreed. I just don't want them to have the dignity of the word 'libertarian' to hide behind. I want to call them what they are-- minarchists. Mindless minarchists who simply reflexively say that government should be smaller. Always just 'smaller'. Can never actually translate that into policy positions.

I wish every time one of those fools typed 'I'm a libertarian', Google spellchecker changed it into 'I'm a person who doesn't understand either democracy or capitalism but likes to claim I'm a champion of both.'

LOL! We really are on the same page.

79 Kragar  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:21:45am

re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL! We really are on the same page.

Well, yeah, just check your URL.

/

80 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:21:47am

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

I guess you have no answer either.

Touche.

if you claim to know what 'obamacare' is, you ought to be able to summarize it in a few paragraphs

81 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:21:52am

They should have replaced the insurance mandate with the public option.

82 cliffster  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:22:20am

re: #75 McSpiff

So they want the government to cut spending, but only that which doesn't benefit them. Pretty sure that still makes them blatant hypocrites.

Again - where was it in the health care debate where republicans were arguing that government employees should not get health care provided by their employer, the government?

83 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:22:24am

re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote

It is not like I said something from Mars.

Well, I am from the South....!

84 MinisterO  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:23:32am

re: #52 McSpiff

It would, if in the interview you said you didn't want the company providing healthcare. Don't play stupid.

It's not an act.

85 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:23:35am

Yo Killgore!

86 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:23:46am

re: #81 Gus 802

They should have replaced the insurance mandate with the public option.

yeah, but then there would have been some actual socialism in the bill

87 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:24:27am

re: #86 engineer dog

yeah, but then there would have been some actual socialism in the bill

Fine by me. I figure if socialism is good enough for Wall Street and the defense industry it's good enough for the rest of us.

88 schnapp  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:25:53am

re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote

Fine then to be specific - the current crop of GOP people who claim libertarian philosophy - even if they themselves can not define it. It is very disheartening to see a clear and obvious point, with a clear and obvious subject (that everyone knows what is being talked about) get derailed by pedantic quibbles over phraseology. It is not like I said something from Mars.

"Libertarians are parasites".

89 harrylook  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:25:57am

I didn't take away from this amusing story that the guy is a hypocrite on Obamacare, but that he's obviously in Washington for himself and is also generally unaware of what most of us deal with when it comes to health insurance issues. Making himself look bad before he even starts his first day.

90 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:26:00am

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

I guess you have no answer either.

Touche.

To what? Your next set of confused talking points. How about we do this one at a time. Let me refresh your memory.

Hockey Puck, what are the measures of Obama care? What is covered by it? What isn't? What is so lacking in the coverage after Obamacare compared to what was before?

Do you think that fewer people have access to medical treatments now in this nation or more?

Is the government providing the insurance in general, or is it still mostly private companies who now have to deal with more competition from each other and have more restrictions on who they can screw over?

Are Americans in general more covered now or less?

Seriously, Puck, try to answer those questions.

You see this is how a debate works. Logical points are posed and facts are pointed to. Like the fact that more Americans are covered now and have more protections against arbitrary denials of coverage. Insurance companies will have to lower prices because they have to compete more directly (Hey that is a Free Market idea! Why do you oppose that?)

My questions are leading, so I don't really need to answer all of them. Everyone whoisn't a complete partisan hack like you knows the answers.

But for yourself, let's see if you can escape the double think and answer them correctly.

Experiment 3.

Hypothesis says he won't, but will either try to switch to other talking points again or feign outrage at how mean I am to him.

91 harrylook  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:27:03am

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

Isn't "touche" what you say when you lose?

92 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:28:17am

re: #91 harrylook

Isn't "touche" what you say when you lose?

I thought it was what you said when someone touched your junk, but they were hot and you were OK with it.

93 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:28:22am

republicans claim to be against socialism, but they don't dare define it

social security and medicare are socialized insurance arrangements, but they don't dare oppose them

94 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:28:47am

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

Touche.

To paraphrase:

But I know something you don't know... I actuallyam left handed!

Your silly self congratulatory bravado aside, now that you have assuaged your damaged ego, care to answer the questions?

95 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:29:20am

OT

Alex Jones makes the big time on the Drudge Report by getting the headline link!

The circle is complete.

96 bodrules  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:29:33am

re: #75 McSpiff

So they want the government to cut spending, but only that which doesn't benefit them. Pretty sure that still makes them blatant hypocrites.

Pretty much the same the world over innit, over here our MPs were bitching because the little people had the temerity to demand that they provide receipts for purchases of under £250 (about US$500), as before they didn't have to (so you can imagine the abuse that system got, as honour and public duty have died a death it seems in certain quarters, though you could argue you get the politicians you vote for, but that's another thread on its own), or stop them claiming tax payer funded living allowances to do up properties in posh parts of London which they then sell and pocket the profit etc.

97 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:30:26am

re: #91 harrylook

Isn't "touche" what you say when you lose?

Hehe.. See even I wasn't so mean as to point that out. Of course I didn't want to give him something else to spiral off about. That quickly turns into him beating his little chest.

I would much rather he answer the questions.

98 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:31:17am

re: #92 SteveC

I thought it was what you said when someone touched your junk, but they were hot and you were OK with it.

In fencing, it is what you call when you take a hit.

99 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:31:45am

re: #95 Gus 802

OT

Alex Jones makes the big time on the Drudge Report by getting the headline link!

The circle is complete.

Sort of a circle jerk for a circle of jerks.

100 SteveC  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:31:59am

re: #89 harrylook

I didn't take away from this amusing story that the guy is a hypocrite on Obamacare, but that he's obviously in Washington for himself and is also generally unaware of what most of us deal with when it comes to health insurance issues.

Hell, his health plan almost certainly includes treatment at Johns Hopkins Hospital - one of the best hospitals in the world.

101 JeffM70  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:34:35am

re: #80 engineer dog

You only need one word to summarize it: socialism. Hasn't Fox News taught you anything?

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:39:04am

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

I say give all the members of Congress ObamaCare and nothing else.

Since there is no such thing as a health plan called 'ObamaCare', I wonder what that means.

103 MinisterO  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:41:55am

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Since there is no such thing as a health plan called 'ObamaCare', I wonder what that means.

Translation: I have a raging case of ODS.

104 ihateronpaul  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:45:05am

Pffft y'all just sum limp-dicked moonbat liberal loony elities, you think you're soooo smart with your college and your science, well I'm a real american and I know that gawwwwd will not allow "global warming" to happen bad joke about al gore sexist joke about barbara boxer racist joke about barack obama even more racist joke about michelle obama make fun of their kids call enviormental advocates eugenecists

I'm really good at beating freepers at their own game

105 TedStriker  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:45:15am

re: #49 cliffster

I didn't have to wait 30 days when I got my job. If I had, I would have been pissed. I guess that makes me a hypocrite too.

Me neither....I had to wait 90 days. And this ass is bitching about 30?

106 TedStriker  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:46:52am

re: #105 talon_262

Well, 28 days from the time he's sworn in until the coverage kicks in...

107 bodrules  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:48:46am

re: #104 ihateronpaul


Kollege

shurely?

108 Lidane  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:53:41am

re: #69 cliffster

he is going to be a government employee. I guess I missed the part of the health care debate where republicans were arguing that government employees should not get health care provided by their employer, the government.

The guy ran for office on a platform of denying Americans the right to buy government health care to make up for any gaps in coverage when they change employers then turns around and asks if he can buy government coverage to make up for the gap in coverage that he's going to face when he starts his new job.

If you can't see how this makes him a raging hypocrite, you're being deliberately dense.

109 Gus  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:54:48am

GOP Wants To Strip Fed Of Power To Combat Joblessness

WASHINGTON -- Congressional Republicans are pushing to strip the Federal Reserve of its authority to address unemployment, leaving it with the lone responsibility to combat inflation. Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), a key member of the Senate Banking Committee, became on Monday the latest Republican to propose that the central bank stop worrying itself with the jobless crisis.

"It is time that we work to clarify the mandate of the Federal Reserve," Corker said in a statement. "Providing our central bank with a clear and explicit focus on keeping inflation low will serve America better than the broader mandate approach we have today."

Congress, meanwhile, has not made a major attempt to address the unemployment crisis since passing the stimulus in early 2009, leaving the Fed as the policymaker of last resort for the jobless. An emergency extension of unemployment insurance is set to expire if Congress doesn't act shortly, prematurely costing two million people their benefits by the end of the year.

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) has long been an advocate of stripping the Fed of its unemployment authority and will be the incoming House Budget Committee chairman. Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana, a national Republican leader, has similarly called to remove the Fed's responsibility over unemployment.

Continues.

110 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:55:48am

re: #67 Alouette

I leave for the airport in another hour.

I am still basically in a shutdown mode. I went in to work this morning to pick up my new badge (My ID photo looks like shit) then they told me to go home. I am basically useless right now for anything productive.

7 of my kids (including my daughter from Israel) are going to be in LA with me.

{Alouette}

111 Lidane  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 10:56:15am

re: #109 Gus 802

GOP Wants To Strip Fed Of Power To Combat Joblessness

Because clearly, free markets solve everything. =P

112 nines09  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 11:10:54am

re: #111 Lidane

Yes. $7.25 an hour with benefits consisting of "We'll drive you to the hospital, after that, you're on your own."

113 jea62  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 11:31:59am

Or, to paraphrase: "I want my healthcare. Screw all of you voters!"

And for those of you good conservatives who voted for this person...you're all idiots.

114 philosophus invidius  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 12:37:12pm

re: #19 Obdicut

{snip}The actual ideology of 'libertarianism'-- which is a category so broad it includes anarcho-capitalism and socialist libertarianism-- is that the maximization of individual freedom is the greatest good.{snip}

Viewing freedom as a goal to be maximized seems to be contrary to the typical libertarian's view that the possession of private property is an absolute right on a par with what we might consider to be the right not to have one's life taken away. The right to private property creates absolute restrictions on the government's behavior. (Robert Nozick called such rights "side-constraints"--meaning that whatever one's goals might be, one is also constrained not to violate such rights.) If freedom were just a goal to be maximized, then you could take away one person's freedom if that would lead to more overall freedom.

This an important distinction that is often not noticed (even if you yourself didn't mean "goal" in that sense).

115 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 12:41:11pm

re: #114 philosophus invidius

There is no such thing as a typical libertarian.

There are schools of libertarian thought that don't even believe in private property.

116 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 12:53:08pm

One has to wonder if Andy Harris knows the definition of hypocrisy...sigh. :(

117 ihateronpaul  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 12:59:22pm

re: #113 jea62

Or, to paraphrase: "I want my healthcare. Screw all of you voters!"

And for those of you good conservatives who voted for this person...you're all idiots.

Do as I say
Not As I do

Whether it's "doing" homosexuality, "doing" socialism", or "doing" corruption, the republicans will never let you down!

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 1:20:52pm

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

I say give all the members of Congress ObamaCare and nothing else.

pushback on aisle 6

119 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 2:58:59pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

He is a teabag libertarian Republican - not to mince words.

No, he's a republican. Having support from the tea party and/or being a small government conservative doesn't magically turn someone into a libertarian. If it did Richard Davis, the Libertarian party candidate in that race, wouldn't have run.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

120 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 4:59:00pm

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

I commented on the pages about this:

The very first thing - and the only thing - that libertarians think of is themselves. He has no desire to pay for someone else's health care. That would be evil socialism! But by Jove - he wants his actually paid for by the taxpayer healthcare for himself.

Why can't he just buy his own? That's what he wants you and me to do. He's an anesthesiologist from Johns Hopkins. He isn't poor. He certainly isn't poor compared to most Americans, whom he feels should have no coverage.

The essence of libertarians seems to be wanting all of the benefits of the social contract with none of the duty.

Libertarians are parasites.

The 24 types of Libertarians.

121 Basho  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 7:25:55pm

This guy makes me sick. Screw the Republicans.

122 Opal  Tue, Nov 16, 2010 8:23:38pm

Harris is the new rep from the district that sort of wraps around my district. He has been a state legislator, so he should have an idea about how this government thingie works. Anyhoo, he went on local t.v. with the (im)plausible story that he wasn't asking for himself. No. He was asking on behalf of others in the hopes of understanding how or why the federal government doesn't provide health care from day one. The Baltimore Sun ran an article on it this evening:

[Link: www.baltimoresun.com...]

(snip)

Speaking to WBAL-TV on Tuesday, Harris said he asked about the start date "because every member is obviously going to have to think about how they align the health insurance they have now to their new health insurance."

Harris said he was not talking about himself.

"Not my family," he told the Baltimore television station. "I have insurance, and I have the ability to have insurance. But for anyone else who gets a job — and again, the irony that the federal government would go to the American people and our employers and say you have to provide insurance — and yet our federal employees get hired, and if they don't get hired on the right day of the month, they actually have to go without health care for awhile."
**
Strangely, he was unaware that the new health car law has not fully kicked in yet. You'd think he would know that since he spent the campaign season railing against it.

123 Stephen T.  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 5:30:36am

My understanding of libertarianism can be summed up by this quote from Will Durant: "If man asks for many laws it is only because he is sure that his neighbor needs them; privately he is an unphilosophical anarchist, and thinks laws in his own case superfluous. "


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