Coming in 2012 - The Dumbest Presidential Candidate Ever

Politics • Views: 22,434

I’ve been saying for some time that everything half-Governor Sarah Palin is doing — the book, the speeches, the Fox News job, the reality TV show — is intended to set her up for a run at the Presidency in 2012, and today she made it official: Palin: ‘I am’ thinking about 2012 bid.

UPDATE at 11/17/10 9:58:16 am:

Here’s the profile of Palin in the New York Times, an article with a strangely respectful tone that finds almost nothing negative to report: Inside Sarah Palin’s Inner Circle.

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411 comments
1 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:25:32am

Somewhere, angels have broken into song.
//

2 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:26:42am

Worst.
Kept.
Secret.
Evah!

Still, oy.
The SS GOP seems intent on sailing off the edge of electability.

3 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:26:57am

It can’t be true…she said she was thinking about something.

4 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:27:31am

The two most terrifying words ever…President Palin

5 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:28:24am
half-Governor

Heehee.

6 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:28:25am

re: #3 PT Barnum

My dad thinks she’s one smart cookie. I told him maybe they should hold a spelling B for the next election.

7 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:28:27am

No surprise about her contemplating a run. She’s got a built in constituency and could potentially win the 2012 GOP primary because she’s in a better position to cater to the right wing that has come to dominate the party and her GOTV would be considerable in a primary.

She has an echo chamber supporting her that will uncritically support her despite her all too familiar shortcomings.

8 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:28:48am

I saw some Alaska show footage. She looks far less Presidential (gag) than ever. Against an incumbent…?!?

ROFL

9 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:29:07am

How long can she sustain a Presidential campaign while using the teabagger strategy of not answering questions, not giving interviews, and not facing any media that isn’t Fox?

10 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:29:12am

re: #6 theheat

My dad thinks she’s one smart cookie. I told him maybe they should hold a spelling B for the next election.

Exactly how does he justify that particular assessment?

11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:29:39am

She won’t win.

12 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:29:58am

re: #10 PT Barnum

Because she’s white and a Republican and talks about God a lot.

13 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:30:15am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

I saw some Alaska show footage. She looks far less Presidential (gag) than ever. Against an incumbent…?!?

ROFL

Obama: I have 4 years in office running the company. She couldn’t even finish out her term as Governor of one of the states most dependent on Federal assistance.

14 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:30:59am

If she runs, it’s going to be an absolutely brutal primary season.

15 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:31:31am

re: #10 PT Barnum

Oh, and he digs on the secession angle. I forgot about that part. He’s ready to break free from the union at the drop of a hat, and wants Sarah to lead the charge.

16 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:31:33am

Watching the endless whiplash cycle of GOP figureheads criticizing her and then “clarifying” their statement would be entertaining.

17 elizajane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:31:33am

The Palin kids are already planning their Facebook take-downs of Mom’s enemies.
“STFU Romney!”
“Huck, you’re not doin any better than my baby daddy!”
“T-Paw, u f*gg*t, ur just jealous of my Mom.”

If you don’t believe it, see my post last night…

18 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:31:36am

re: #14 Obdicut

If she runs, it’s going to be an absolutely brutal primary season.

Where’s a freaking Coliseum when we need one?!
/

19 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:31:39am

re: #10 PT Barnum

It could be along the lines of “She must be doing something right to fool enough people enough of the time to get to the point of thinking that she could go for the White House…”

As for thinking about White House runs, I’ve previously declared (and withdrawn) my candidacy for 2016, but have started rethinking this in light of the pitiful field in 2012. /

20 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:32:07am

re: #15 theheat

Oh, and he digs on the secession angle. I forgot about that part. He’s ready to break free from the union at the drop of a hat, and wants Sarah to lead the charge.

where does he live? Texas?

21 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:32:14am

re: #14 Obdicut

If she runs, it’s going to be an absolutely brutal primary season.

Especially if she tries to wrap herself in the mantle of Reagan because she has a TV show. Her GOP opponents will rip her to shreds if she does that.

22 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:32:57am

re: #20 PT Barnum

No, the Great [goddamned liberal] Northwest. About two hours from me.

23 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:33:44am

re: #21 Lidane

Especially if she tries to wrap herself in the mantle of Reagan because she has a TV show. Her GOP opponents will rip her to shreds if she does that.

The problem is going to be that the only non-nuts GOPer in the field is a Mormon who won’t get any love in Iowa (Remember these are the same people who gave Mike Huckabee a caucus win)

24 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:33:54am

Yeah, the primaries are going to be brutal if she runs. Don’t think for a minute hhat her opponents won’t hammer her for quitting on her state. She’s going to find out the hard way that it’s not only Dems and libs who want to see her go down in flames. Seriously though, I saw some clips from her show the other night and I could not believe I was watching a woman that some see as presidential. I try to be a fair man and unbiased but I can’t see her appeal at all even among right wingers. I mean really who would want this fool as president? She’s proudly ignorant not to mention petty and divisive as hell. I really think she’s everything the right says Obama is. She’s very narcisstic.

25 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:34:24am

re: #22 theheat

No, the Great [goddamned liberal] Northwest. About two hours from me.

Is he a native or a transplant? Usually that kind of delusional Sarah Worship doesn’t come natural as I recall.

26 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:34:36am

I think whether or not she does will be decided on whether she thinks she’ll make more money by running or not running.

27 insanity police  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:34:51am

I have to disagree with Charles a bit. The dumbest candidate in my opinion was Ron Paul. Palin is a close second.

28 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:35:03am

So what I’m reading here is, that we’re going to see a guaranteed four more years of Obama? Nice.

29 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:35:04am

Obama must DREAM about a match up with Sarah Palin.

30 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:35:12am

Would it be legal for her to remain a paid contributor to Fox News while actively running for office?

31 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:35:34am

re: #11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She won’t win.

The nomination?
Not likely.
Though, her followers will most likely be very bitter. They may just stay home.

32 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:35:44am

re: #29 Big Steve

Obama must DREAM about a match up with Sarah Palin.

I think the debates would be interesting, especially if they made her wear sunglasses so nobody could see her wink.

33 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:35:46am

let the great stockpiling of the popcorn commence

34 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:36:14am

re: #31 Varek Raith

The nomination?
Not likely.
Though, her followers will most likely be very bitter. They may just stay home.

that would be just the best.

35 apox  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:36:14am

President Palin: and to address Iran, ya know, I really just think you men need to put your man pants on and accept the beautiful freedom America and Christianity has to offer, Jesus loves even you! /wink

I remember on NPR when she was just being introduced as a potential VP they had an awful clip of her speaking at her church about us fighting “evil” in Iraq and the threat Islam poses. Horribly paraphrased, wish I could dig up the clip/story

36 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:36:32am

re: #30 negativ

Would it be legal for her to remain a paid contributor to Fox News while actively running for office?

Legal yes….but Fox would have to provide equal time on air to all other candidates….so practical - no.

37 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:36:34am

re: #25 PT Barnum

Heck no, he’s been here for 60+ years. You’d be surprised how many people around here think she’s MENSA material and are talking secession. It’s jaw dropping.

38 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:36:36am

re: #33 SpaceJesus

let the great stockpiling of the popcorn commence

Praise Jesus and pass the salt!

39 SteveMcGazi  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:36:52am

No way she runs. She knows she’ll get disembrained in the debates.

40 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:37:40am

re: #31 Varek Raith

The nomination?
Not likely.
Though, her followers will most likely be very bitter. They may just stay home.

I am guessing they’ll be even less forgiving than the PUMA crowd.

41 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:37:56am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

I saw some Alaska show footage. She looks far less Presidential (gag) than ever. Against an incumbent…?!?

ROFL

Oh, my GOP! Doesn’t she realize that every single moment she’s ever been on TV is going to be analyzed, memorialized, and brutalized?

“Despite what she tells you, Mrs. Palin does not represent the common American. How many common Americans have a TV studio connected to their home?”

42 hicsuget  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:38:07am
The Dumbest Presidential Candidate Ever

I think that’s hyperbole. What about William Jennings Bryan?

43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:38:11am

re: #40 PT Barnum

Funny. I’ve forgotten what that stands for.

44 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:38:46am

re: #41 SteveC

Oh, my GOP! Doesn’t she realize that every single moment she’s ever been on TV is going to be analyzed, memorialized, and brutalized?

“Despite what she tells you, Mrs. Palin does not represent the common American. How many common Americans have a TV studio connected to their home?”

She does?
Lol.

45 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:38:50am

re: #39 stevemcg

No way she runs. She knows she’ll get disembrained in the debates.

I don’t think that made much of a difference in 2008. She was completely disembrained by Joe Biden of all people and there were still wingnuts insisting that she owned the floor.

46 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:39:52am

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Funny. I’ve forgotten what that stands for.

Party
Unity
My
Arse

47 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:40:01am

I hope she does run. Not because I think she will necessarily destroy the GOP although that would be a beneficial outcome. I thought that the extremists such as Bachmann were going to destroy the GOP’s electoral viability and obviously, that hasn’t happened.

I hope she runs because it will be a good llitmus test of the American voting public. Anyone who votes for her pretty much throws off any cloak of reasonableness they might try to use to cover a theocratic ideology. Let the battle lines be drawn. Having Palin as a candidate might galvanize the left and opposition from reasonable independents in ways that Obama’s candidacy, apparently, was only able to do temporarily.

48 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:40:39am

re: #29 Big Steve

“I want to talk right down to earth, in a language everybody here can easily understand.”

(And then say it with pictures, so even Sarah gets it.)

49 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:40:45am

The other option is that she’s just stirring up publicity for her family cottage industry of reality TV shows.

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:40:55am

re: #46 PT Barnum

Hell, I had to go hunting the interweaves… funny how quickly we forget.

51 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:41:09am

The way she deals with the media especially considering the fact she is now part of the media is simply pathetic. It’s downright Nixonian. I’ve never seen any national politican so hostile to criticism. I mean I kinda understand that a little but as Truman put it, if you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen then get the hell out.

52 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:41:49am

My inner Democrat says “Go for it”. My inner American says “Oh, no”.

53 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:42:12am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

if you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen then get the hell out.

Well, she did quit her job as governor.

54 recusancy  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:43:09am

Palin said this: “We know that Obama wasn’t vetted through the campaign, and now, you know, some things are coming home to roost, if you will, which is inexperience, his associations, and that ultimately harms our republic when a candidate isn’t — isn’t vetted by the media, that cornerstone of our democracy”.

Seriously. That’s some serious stupidity.

55 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:43:58am

re: #44 Varek Raith

She does?
Lol.

Oh, yeah - it was shown on Sarah Palin’s Alaska. She dresses up nice, walks out of her house, down a walkway that looks to be about 20 feet long, and into a TV studio, where she appears on The O’Really? Factor. First Dude (who seems to be a man of many skills) was sitting behind a large control board.

56 APox  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:44:43am

Lol she just heard a new fancy word “vetted”

57 Slap  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:45:35am

re: #56 APox

Yep;

“My dog was sick, so we put him in the cage and vetted him.”

58 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:45:37am

Here’s what got me angry during the presidential campaign in 2008. How every left wing criticism of herr was called sexist by the right. The same people who laughed when dipshit Limbaugh called feminists, “feminazis” or mocked feminism were calling liberals sexists because they dared to criticize Sarah Palin. I just love how they were like “You liberals are so afraid of her” and then the McCain campaign basically hid her from the media and then when she went on Couric, she was exposed as the ignorant person she is. I try to be fair really but I can’t really see how anyone sees anything presidential about her especially the fact that she quit on her state. They can use the oh the investigations excuse all they want but that’s horseshit. IT was a cowardly move and they know it.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:45:43am

re: #1 theheat

Somewhere, angels have broken into song.
//

Unfortunately, it’s “It’s The End Of The World As We Know It”.

60 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:45:54am

re: #56 APox

Lol she just heard a new fancy word “vetted”

No one from the McCain campaign could explain it to her.

61 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:46:19am

This is going to be a lot of fun.

62 APox  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:46:24am

re: #57 Slap

I just lol’d at work, thanks!

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:47:48am

re: #42 hicsuget

I think that’s hyperbole. What about William Jennings Bryan?

What about him?

64 APox  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:49:23am

Reminds me of when I was in 7th grade and fell in love with “as aforementioned” in my essays.

65 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:49:37am

Is there anything First Dude can’t do?

Sarah Palin’s Alaska showed him

* Fishing from a small boat (and in charge of the engine controls)

* Driving a HUGE RV

* Behind the scenes of a small self contained TV studio

* Rock Climbing (as fast as a mountain goat!)

66 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:50:02am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Unfortunately, it’s “It’s The End Of The World As We Know It”.

LOL

67 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:50:09am

re: #56 APox

re: #57 Slap

Vetted is a common term in the ag industry, particularly with horses. Say, if you go to buy a horse, you’ll have it vetted i.e. vet checked first. Also called a pre-purchase exam. A horse with a clean bill of health is said to vet clean. If not, they didn’t pass their vet check.

For Palin, I like pre-purchase exam better. Sounds way more touchy and icky. Less fundie-friendly.

68 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:50:10am

Thre: #54 recusancy

Palin said this: “We know that Obama wasn’t vetted through the campaign, and now, you know, some things are coming home to roost, if you will, which is inexperience, his associations, and that ultimately harms our republic when a candidate isn’t — isn’t vetted by the media, that cornerstone of our democracy”.

Seriously. That’s some serious stupidity.

Interestingly enough, when she was vetted by the media, she immediately declared that being shown up to be a fool was a violation of her First Amendment Rights.

69 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:51:13am

re: #65 SteveC

Is there anything First Dude can’t do?

From other articles I’ve heard he can’t get into Sarah’s pants.

70 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:51:34am

If she runs, at least some of these “libertarians” and “moderates” (you know the type - the Republican sycophants who say “I don’t listen to Beck,” but spout his talking points at the drop of a hat), will be forced to shit or get off the pot. Some will continue to hide behind a “moderate” label - but even some of them will not be able to continue to say that they don’t want government involved in their personal lives and then turn around and vote for a theocrat.

But my concern is how the left will react to her candidacy. She will use vitriolic opposition to her advantage. That is a big piece of her electoral game plan.

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:52:59am

re: #68 PT Barnum

Th

Interestingly enough, when she was vetted by the media, she immediately declared that being shown up to be a fool was a violation of her First Amendment Rights.

Yep. The way she’s whined about Katie Couric is pathetic really. Oooh she asked you what news magazines you’ve read and what supreme court cases you know. Seriously, Palin is just so full of double standards, it’s not even funny. She wants the media to hammer Obama on every little thing but when she’s criticized or one of her dumb candidates she supports, she flips out. She’s just freaky like that.

72 friarstale  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:53:19am

she should not run in 2012, and maybe not ever

if she wanted to run as a serious candidate, she should have finished her term as Governor of Alaska

she chose the entertainment industry and has turned herself into a political gadfly, not a serious candidate

she went for the money and the fame, and it’s too late to go back

73 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:53:45am

re: #70 Talking Point Detective

Naw, they’ll still play the moderate card. They’ll be like: “Oh, well I just had to hold my nose and vote for Sarah because it’s a little better than Obama.”

74 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:53:57am

re: #68 PT Barnum

Th

Interestingly enough, when she was vetted by the media, she immediately declared that being shown up to be a fool was a violation of her First Amendment Rights.

linky

75 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:54:06am

re: #58 HappyWarrior

Here’s what got me angry during the presidential campaign in 2008. How every left wing criticism of herr was called sexist by the right. The same people who laughed when dipshit Limbaugh called feminists, “feminazis” or mocked feminism were calling liberals sexists because they dared to criticize Sarah Palin. I just love how they were like “You liberals are so afraid of her” and then the McCain campaign basically hid her from the media and then when she went on Couric, she was exposed as the ignorant person she is. I try to be fair really but I can’t really see how anyone sees anything presidential about her especially the fact that she quit on her state. They can use the oh the investigations excuse all they want but that’s horseshit. IT was a cowardly move and they know it.

The thing is - that game plan is a given. They will paint any criticism of her as sexist, that she’s the victim of the “lamestream media.” That strategy has a great deal of appeal to a wide cross-section of the American voting public. The question is whether the “the left,” as a collective entity, will be smart enough to develop a coherent counter-strategy. Given that the left has a much harder time staying on message than the right, I’m not at all convinced that will happen.

76 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:54:27am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

Don’t forget her David Letterman meltdown. And she’s been pretty snippy to Obama, also. He’s ball-less and pals around with terrorists.

77 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:54:32am

re: #72 friarstale


Exactly why she should run

78 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:54:58am

Palin / Fetus In A Jar ‘12!

79 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:56:10am

re: #78 Jeff In Ohio
Dude…..that comment is a little harsh don’t you think!

80 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:56:34am

My only contribution to the subject

Image: S-PalinWouldHaveQuit.jpg

LOL

81 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:56:45am

re: #79 Big Steve

Dude…that comment is a little harsh don’t you think!

No, it’s a lotta bit harsh.

82 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:56:51am

re: #79 Big Steve

Dude…that comment is a little harsh don’t you think!

How about Palin/A pile of steaming cow flop ‘12?

83 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:57:00am

re: #69 PT Barnum

From other articles I’ve heard he can’t get into Sarah’s pants.

Well, he’s pretty fit, and Sarah is getting a little big in the backside…

Wait… that’s not….? Just forget it, OK? ;)

84 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:57:14am

Palin has this reality show in which she is shown adventuring across Alaska, enjoying all sorts of great outdoors scenery. And true, she goes out on the lake and fishes, but Todd catches the fish. And true, she gets flown up onto the Ruth glacier on McKinley, but when it’s time to scramble up some rock, roped and belayed, she’s awfully lame. She just has no sense of how to put hands and feet and use irregularities in the rock.

Todd makes short work of it. So would I, and so would various family members. It’s an easy enough pitch.

Now it’s OK to be lousy on the rock. If you’re no good at it, just find some other recreation. But Palin isn’t there for recreation. She’s there to be seen as outdoorsy. Now maybe there’s outdoors stuff she’s actually good at; I’d bet on her vs me in a shooting contest. But it leaves a sour taste to see her pretending to be a fan of recreational activities for which she has no clue, no experience, no talent, and no interest.

85 Locker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:58:11am

Perhaps if she’s elected she can hire her children for her cabinet positions because “family comes first!”.

Willow can deal with China by telling them to STFU and then call them “Faggots”. That will learn those communist heathens!

86 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:59:10am

And today Palin is profiled by the New York Times, in an article with a strangely respectful tone that finds almost nothing negative to report: Inside Sarah Palin’s Inner Circle.

87 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:59:17am

re: #85 Locker

Wait, her daughter is that chick from Angel? She gots my vote!

88 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 9:59:44am

Alex Jones now accepted by mainstream conservatives….
TSA “Junk Touching” Now SOP? (Hot Air)

Alex Jones videos and links to his 9-11 conspiracy site. Not a single complaint. Drudge’s hard work has paid off.

89 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:00:11am

I didn’t read the whole NYT Magazine article referred to in the article, becasue I felt my brain withering during the attempt. But here’s an excerpt form near the end:

But, I reiterated, didn’t she believe that the Republican establishment’s predominant worry was that she would lose to Obama? “Then perhaps they should vent some of their paranoia toward all of the potential G.O.P. candidates,” she said. “Because obviously there’s no guarantee that any one of us would win. But I do believe that much of this is a threat to their hierarchy, because I’ve never shied away from a battle [ahem. ed.] and because I’ll put principle before politics.”

In a sense, Palin views Beltway Republicans as she does the Obama administration: aloof, self-interested and vulnerable to the populist power that she believes she wields. “They’re in an isolated bubble — Barack Obama mentioned that in his press conference, and I agree with him, he is isolated from what average Americans are talking about,” she said, referring to the president’s words after the midterm elections. “But what he was meaning, of course, was that he’s not in touch with average Americans. I am — because that’s who I am. That’s who surrounds me, common-sense Americans who just want government on their side, not riding their backs. And I tweet to reach out to them.”

I love that last sentence. Maybe I’ll have to follow her on Twitter.

90 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:00:30am

re: #86 Charles

And today Palin is profiled by the New York Times, in an article with a strangely respectful tone that finds almost nothing negative to report: Inside Sarah Palin’s Inner Circle.

They would love her to run and will probably do everything they can to pump her up until she’s nominated.

91 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:01:03am

re: #73 SpaceJesus

Naw, they’ll still play the moderate card. They’ll be like: “Oh, well I just had to hold my nose and vote for Sarah because it’s a little better than Obama.”

You’re probably right, but I’m hoping some will get peeled away. When the rubber hit the road, many of those independents voted for Obama in the last election. Bush’s screw-ups were a big part of that, but Palin did poll badly among self-identified “moderates.”

I think that she is far enough to the right, and such a limited candidate in so many ways, that reasonable moderates will really have to do some self-evaluation of just how “moderate” they are before voting for her.

92 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:01:30am

re: #75 Talking Point Detective

The thing is - that game plan is a given. They will paint any criticism of her as sexist, that she’s the victim of the “lamestream media.” That strategy has a great deal of appeal to a wide cross-section of the American voting public. The question is whether the “the left,” as a collective entity, will be smart enough to develop a coherent counter-strategy. Given that the left has a much harder time staying on message than the right, I’m not at all convinced that will happen.

Well, if some of the comments on this thread is any way evident of a strategy… your in trouble. Unless you think that Colbert and Stewert styled snark is an intelligent way to mount an coherent message.

Like I said above - this is going to be fun.

93 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:01:53am

re: #79 Big Steve

Dude…that comment is a little harsh don’t you think!

Strategy.

94 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:01:54am

re: #75 Talking Point Detective

The thing is - that game plan is a given. They will paint any criticism of her as sexist, that she’s the victim of the “lamestream media.” That strategy has a great deal of appeal to a wide cross-section of the American voting public. The question is whether the “the left,” as a collective entity, will be smart enough to develop a coherent counter-strategy. Given that the left has a much harder time staying on message than the right, I’m not at all convinced that will happen.

You don’t remember the 2008 election? She ran as VP, you remember?

What do you call a “coherent counter-strategy”? The woman is an idiot. From creationism, to her asking for the Wasilla librarian’s resignation, to her anti-woman stand on abortion and most women’s issues… she’s a trainwreck. The left did a fine job of exposing all of it last time and they will this time.

95 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:02:10am

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Shit, guys pay lap dancers to touch their junk, then complain when they get it for free. Ain’t nothing nice.

96 Slap  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:02:24am

re: #87 Jeff In Ohio

Wait, her daughter is that chick from Angel? She gots my vote!

Her daughter is Punky Meadows?

97 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:02:32am

For those that dismiss her and say she can’t win…..she is probably more likely to win both the nomination and general election than Obama was circa 2006.

98 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:03:08am

re: #95 Jeff In Ohio

Shit, guys pay lap dancers to touch their junk, then complain when they get it for free. Ain’t nothing nice.


That’s it! We’ll hire strippers for the TSA. Air Travel will go up 1000%

99 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:03:30am

re: #84 lostlakehiker

Palin has this reality show in which she is shown adventuring across Alaska, enjoying all sorts of great outdoors scenery. And true, she goes out on the lake and fishes, but Todd catches the fish. And true, she gets flown up onto the Ruth glacier on McKinley, but when it’s time to scramble up some rock, roped and belayed, she’s awfully lame. She just has no sense of how to put hands and feet and use irregularities in the rock.

Todd makes short work of it. So would I, and so would various family members. It’s an easy enough pitch.

Now it’s OK to be lousy on the rock. If you’re no good at it, just find some other recreation. But Palin isn’t there for recreation. She’s there to be seen as outdoorsy. Now maybe there’s outdoors stuff she’s actually good at; I’d bet on her vs me in a shooting contest. But it leaves a sour taste to see her pretending to be a fan of recreational activities for which she has no clue, no experience, no talent, and no interest.

She quit the governorship to go hunt and fish. I’m sure Alaskans are so very proud of her.

100 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:03:34am

re: #97 Big Steve

For those that dismiss her and say she can’t win…she is probably more likely to win both the nomination and general election than Obama was circa 2006.

I would say “People can’t be that dumb!” - but every time I do, they prove me wrong!

101 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:03:36am

re: #95 Jeff In Ohio

Shit, guys pay lap dancers to touch their junk, then complain when they get it for free. Ain’t nothing nice.

Don’t know about you, but I have never paid a man to touch my junk.

102 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:03:39am

re: #91 Talking Point Detective


Maybe. Asking the average right-leaning American to do some “self-evaluation” in regard to anything is a fairly tall order in my opinion though…

103 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:03:42am

re: #80 marjoriemoon

My only contribution to the subject

Image: S-PalinWouldHaveQuit.jpg

LOL


That was my first use of the new image displaying thingy. Nice.

104 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:04:14am

re: #94 marjoriemoon

These are points the Dems need to hammer on. Incessantly. She’s dumb, she’s extreme, she’s oppressive, and she’s hostile. This is something we’re supposed to be talking about at the Dem meeting next month.

105 PT Barnum  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:05:30am

re: #104 theheat

These are points the Dems need to hammer on. Incessantly. She’s dumb, she’s extreme, she’s oppressive, and she’s hostile. This is something we’re supposed to be talking about at the Dem meeting next month.

Keep in mind that she still had strong support from certain quarters even after the Charlie Gibson/Katie Couric interviews.

106 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:05:39am

re: #90 Killgore Trout

They would love her to run and will probably do everything they can to pump her up until she’s nominated.

A left-wing conspiracy because they’re so sure that she’ll be a losing candidate that they’ll do anything they can to get her to run?

Is this an officially stated editorial policy, something that comes out of secret meetings between reporters, or just a liberal mind-meld?

107 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:05:42am

re: #103 wrenchwench

That was my first use of the new image displaying thingy. Nice.

I know! I saw that. I was thinking I could put in a caption, but I think it just reads the filename, which is totally groovy on its own.

108 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:06:01am

re: #95 Jeff In Ohio

Shit, guys pay lap dancers to touch their junk, then complain when they get it for free. Ain’t nothing nice.

They’re afraid a gay TSA employee might enjoy his work too much. Or rather, that they might enjoy his work too much.

109 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:06:30am

re: #104 theheat

These are points the Dems need to hammer on. Incessantly. She’s dumb, she’s extreme, she’s oppressive, and she’s hostile. This is something we’re supposed to be talking about at the Dem meeting next month.

Who would she choose as VP? That’s of extreme importance, since she has a track record of not completing her term in office.

110 recusancy  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:06:47am

re: #105 PT Barnum

Keep in mind that she still had strong support from certain quarters even after the Charlie Gibson/Katie Couric interviews.

Emphasis on quarter.

111 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:07:09am

re: #105 PT Barnum

All the more reason to double up the efforts to bury her in her own bullshit. I spoke to one of the media peeps, that run ads for the local Dems. Believe me, I do have some ideas to bounce off her.

112 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:07:33am

re: #108 wrenchwench

They’re afraid a gay TSA employee might enjoy his work too much. Or rather, that they might enjoy his work too much.

People should enjoy their work, and we should revel in their enjoyment.

113 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:07:53am

re: #104 theheat

These are points the Dems need to hammer on. Incessantly. She’s dumb, she’s extreme, she’s oppressive, and she’s hostile. This is something we’re supposed to be talking about at the Dem meeting next month.

LOL Shhh! Stop giving away our secrets!

Well if you love Sarah, I guess you aren’t going to listen to any of it, but I think the Democrats did a wonderful job exposing her nuttiness. She dragged McCain down. There’s no way she’ll get the nomination.

114 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:07:57am

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Well, if some of the comments on this thread is any way evident of a strategy… your in trouble. Unless you think that Colbert and Stewert styled snark is an intelligent way to mount an coherent message.

Like I said above - this is going to be fun.

Yeah - I think it is trouble.

As for the Colbert/Stewart approach - I think that their “snark” is much, much more effective because it isn’t as easily used to turn Republicans into “victims.” Did you watch the Stewart/Maddow interview? I thought it put the question of approach into a pretty sharp contrast.

115 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:08:19am

re: #111 theheat

All the more reason to double up the efforts to bury her in her own bullshit. I spoke to one of the media peeps, that run ads for the local Dems. Believe me, I do have some ideas to bounce off her.

Go for it…

116 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:08:22am

re: #109 SteveC

Bachman (The Sharpie Sistahs), DeMint, Hucklebilly - some other anti-everything hardcore POS.

117 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:08:25am

re: #108 wrenchwench

They’re afraid a gay TSA employee might enjoy his work too much. Or rather, that they might enjoy his work too much.

Don’t ask, don’t tell ;)

118 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:08:29am

re: #106 Talking Point Detective

A left-wing conspiracy because they’re so sure that she’ll be a losing candidate that they’ll do anything they can to get her to run?

Is this an officially stated editorial policy, something that comes out of secret meetings between reporters, or just a liberal mind-meld?

I think it’s a conscious editorial decision. Most of the large influential lefty news organizations will probably do the same thing. They’ll treat her with kid gloves until she gets the nomination. It’s just smart politics.

119 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:09:01am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

I’ll let her know I have your permission.

120 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:09:25am

re: #114 Talking Point Detective

Yeah - I think it is trouble.

As for the Colbert/Stewart approach - I think that their “snark” is much, much more effective because it isn’t as easily used to turn Republicans into “victims.” Did you watch the Stewart/Maddow interview? I thought it put the question of approach into a pretty sharp contrast.

No kidding… and it worked so well in the last election cycle… keep up the good work.

121 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:09:51am

re: #119 theheat

I’ll let her know I have your permission.

Give her my regards.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:10:08am

re: #112 Jeff In Ohio

People should enjoy their work, and we should revel in their enjoyment.

Gay or straight, believe me. After one day of “feeling up” passengers… the thrill is gone.

For every passenger that looks like Brad Pitt, you have a thousand that look like… well… me.

123 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:10:18am

Why is Senator Jon Kyl opposed to S.T.A.R.T?

124 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:10:34am

re: #113 marjoriemoon

LOL Shhh! Stop giving away our secrets!

…snip There’s no way she’ll get the nomination.

Sharon Angle, Christine O’Donnell, Joe Miller, Alan West…

125 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:10:37am

Shinseki: 20% of all suicides are veterans

In January, he indicated that 20 percent of some 30,000 suicides in the United States each year are committed by veterans. That means that an average of 18 veterans commit suicide each year.

Suicides claimed the lives of a record 309 servicemembers last year, up from 267 in 2008, according to Pentagon numbers. The number of suicides between 2005 and 2009 — 1,100 — exceeded that of the number of US military members killed in Afghanistan since 2001.

126 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:11:01am

re: #101 Big Steve

Don’t know about you, but I have never paid a man to touch my junk.

That ain’t junk; dems the family jewels!

127 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:11:23am

A Palin-Huckabee ticket would have be doubled over in laughter for the entire fall of 2012. Closet Republicans around here, please make this happen.

128 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:12:54am

re: #123 Varek Raith

Why is Senator Jon Kyl opposed to S.T.A.R.T?

Every initiative is to be turned into a Waterloo.

129 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:12:56am

Her complete quote was

“I am thinking of a Presidential bid…OMG, ICE CREAM TRUCK! Be right back!”

130 recusancy  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:13:01am

re: #123 Varek Raith

Why is Senator Jon Kyl opposed to S.T.A.R.T?

Because Obama’s for it.

131 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:13:49am

re: #94 marjoriemoon

You don’t remember the 2008 election? She ran as VP, you remember?

Not sure I get your point here. She ran an alternating attacking/”I’m being victimized” campaign as VP. It was effective with some but not on the whole with independents. The question is whether the political context has changed. I think it has to a large degree, not the least because she’s been building her “I am a victim” strategy for two years.


What do you call a “coherent counter-strategy”? The woman is an idiot.

Agree - but the fact is that a large number of Americans do identify with her. When you call her an idiot, they project that insult onto themselves. I think a better strategy is to take her down in a calm and calculated manner.

The left did a fine job of exposing all of it last time and they will this time.

I would question how effectively she was taken down last time (the post-election analysis was all over the map), and I think that the context has changed. Not to say that I don’t hope you’re right - but I’m expressing skepticism about the effects of what I’ve seen so far.

The vitriolic opposition to the “Tea Party” doesn’t seem to have worked very well so far. It seems that the last election should be used as a yardstick of the effectiveness of that approach.

132 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:14:00am

re: #123 Varek Raith

Why is Senator Jon Kyl opposed to S.T.A.R.T?

re: #130 recusancy

Because Obama’s for it.

Well, the hell with it, then! *pouts*

133 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:14:35am

re: #130 recusancy

Because Obama’s for it.

Oh.
Yeah.
Duh!
Silly me.

134 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:15:31am

re: #102 SpaceJesus

Maybe. Asking the average right-leaning American to do some “self-evaluation” in regard to anything is a fairly tall order in my opinion though…

My hope is that Palin’s candidacy will be enough of a challenge to their sense of self-respect to cause some uncharacteristic behaviors.

135 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:15:34am

re: #133 Varek Raith

Oh.
Yeah.
Duh!
Silly me.

We don’t send you a memo every damn day just for shits and giggles! Read them!!!!

136 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:15:35am

Palin has a plan, it seems. She will paint herself as the gal next door. While she’s not bright in comparison to the more cerebral fraction of the Washington crowd, not bright in comparison to the regular posters here, left or right, and not bright as in knows her way around Milton Friedman or Hume or organic chemistry, she’s bright enough that the average voter will recognize that she’s brighter than he/she is, and thus, plenty bright enough. [ahem!]

Attacks on her intelligence are likely to backfire, because they are implicitly a dismissal of all those yet less gifted, which is the majority. Majority. MAJORITY. As in, she wins if the other side plays that game.

Snide, bitter, and almost certainly unfounded attacks on her marriage are another losing tactic. This may be all in good fun among those who dislike her or just recognize that she isn’t presidential timber, but again, it will be seen as a snide and condescending attack on all marriages involving a manly man and a woman who has an overtly feminine side. Many a man considers himself manly, many a woman considers herself feminine. This sort of talk gratifies the trash-talker but it costs votes.


Attacks on her judgment, experience, authenticity, and factual knowledge will be more likely to gain traction. As to authenticity, my previous post in this very thread is a start. As to factual knowledge, the game plan for any opponent has to be to constantly set up situations where she has to demonstrate knowledge of some widely known fact that she probably doesn’t know.

There are rhetorical dodges people use to get off the hook in such situations and it takes skill to force the issue without appearing rude.

Senator Biden, can you please tell us how much 9 times 8 is? If he doesn’t know, he can dismiss the question with a how dare you!

As to experience, well, she was short on experience the last time around and she’s done nothing to improve her standing in the meantime.

137 recusancy  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:15:56am

re: #133 Varek Raith

Oh.
Yeah.
Duh!
Silly me.

And I guess he’s pro nuclear annihilation.

138 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:16:38am

re: #124 Decatur Deb

Sharon Angle, Christine O’Donnell, Joe Miller, Alan West…

Allen West. OH MY F*ING GOD. How the hell did that happen, I don’t know.

139 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:17:01am

re: #89 wrenchwench

Amazing. The woman who lives in the isolated Fox bubble says President Obama is out of touch. What, pray tell, is Palin’s definition of the “average American”? I wonder if she’s in-touch with the millions upon millions of Americans who live in our country’s large urban areas? Has she ever addressed the concerns of those people, or do they not qualify as Real Americans™?

140 albusteve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:17:11am

The vitriolic opposition to the “Tea Party” doesn’t seem to have worked very well so far. It seems that the last election should be used as a yardstick of the effectiveness of that approach.

maybe not, but sure as heck entertaining…the near hysteria adds alot of color to an otherwise ho hum developement

141 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:18:00am

re: #136 lostlakehiker

Palin has a plan, it seems. She will paint herself as the gal next door. While she’s not bright in comparison to the more cerebral fraction of the Washington crowd, not bright in comparison to the regular posters here, left or right, and not bright as in knows her way around Milton Friedman or Hume or organic chemistry, she’s bright enough that the average voter will recognize that she’s brighter than he/she is, and thus, plenty bright enough. [ahem!]

Attacks on her intelligence are likely to backfire, because they are implicitly a dismissal of all those yet less gifted, which is the majority. Majority. MAJORITY. As in, she wins if the other side plays that game.

Snide, bitter, and almost certainly unfounded attacks on her marriage are another losing tactic. This may be all in good fun among those who dislike her or just recognize that she isn’t presidential timber, but again, it will be seen as a snide and condescending attack on all marriages involving a manly man and a woman who has an overtly feminine side. Many a man considers himself manly, many a woman considers herself feminine. This sort of talk gratifies the trash-talker but it costs votes.

Attacks on her judgment, experience, authenticity, and factual knowledge will be more likely to gain traction. As to authenticity, my previous post in this very thread is a start. As to factual knowledge, the game plan for any opponent has to be to constantly set up situations where she has to demonstrate knowledge of some widely known fact that she probably doesn’t know.

There are rhetorical dodges people use to get off the hook in such situations and it takes skill to force the issue without appearing rude.

Senator Biden, can you please tell us how much 9 times 8 is? If he doesn’t know, he can dismiss the question with a how dare you!

As to experience, well, she was short on experience the last time around and she’s done nothing to improve her standing in the meantime.

Stop it… you’re going to derail the whole Democrat coherent strategy before they even get started.

142 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:18:11am

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

No kidding… and it worked so well in the last election cycle… keep up the good work.

What “worked so well in the last election cycle?” Are you finding a cause-and-effect relationship between Stewart/Colbert and the election outcomes?

Please explain.

My point is that the vitriolic strategy didn’t work. What is your point?

143 SteveC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:18:27am

re: #136 lostlakehiker

Palin has a plan, it seems.

So did the Cylons, and you saw what that got us!

// Haulin’ ass across the galaxy ain’t no fun!

144 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:19:55am

re: #139 CuriousLurker

Colin Powell mentioned that very thing last election, being from an urban area. He found it offensive. Then he voted for Obama.

145 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:20:41am

re: #136 lostlakehiker

Palin has a plan, it seems. She will paint herself as the gal next door. While she’s not bright in comparison to the more cerebral fraction of the Washington crowd, not bright in comparison to the regular posters here, left or right, and not bright as in knows her way around Milton Friedman or Hume or organic chemistry, she’s bright enough that the average voter will recognize that she’s brighter than he/she is, and thus, plenty bright enough. [ahem!]

Attacks on her intelligence are likely to backfire, because they are implicitly a dismissal of all those yet less gifted, which is the majority. Majority. MAJORITY. As in, she wins if the other side plays that game.

Snide, bitter, and almost certainly unfounded attacks on her marriage are another losing tactic. This may be all in good fun among those who dislike her or just recognize that she isn’t presidential timber, but again, it will be seen as a snide and condescending attack on all marriages involving a manly man and a woman who has an overtly feminine side. Many a man considers himself manly, many a woman considers herself feminine. This sort of talk gratifies the trash-talker but it costs votes.

Attacks on her judgment, experience, authenticity, and factual knowledge will be more likely to gain traction. As to authenticity, my previous post in this very thread is a start. As to factual knowledge, the game plan for any opponent has to be to constantly set up situations where she has to demonstrate knowledge of some widely known fact that she probably doesn’t know.

There are rhetorical dodges people use to get off the hook in such situations and it takes skill to force the issue without appearing rude.

Senator Biden, can you please tell us how much 9 times 8 is? If he doesn’t know, he can dismiss the question with a how dare you!

As to experience, well, she was short on experience the last time around and she’s done nothing to improve her standing in the meantime.

Bingo.

146 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:20:47am

Shorter Sarah Palin: Fucking Economics, How does it work?

Look, she and Glenn Beck can go on and on about their fear of inflation because of QE 2, but they’re absolutely clueless on the scope of things.

First, does anyone remember the first QE two years ago? You know the one that was 1.8 Trillion dollars? Do you remember the hyperinflation that happened after that? when the price of gas shot up to $50 dollars a gallon, and the price of a house went up 1000% during those dark days of 2009? Neither do I, because it *didn’t* happen.

This next QE is a whopping 800 Billion dollars, or less than half the first QE. Inflation is sitting at just over 1% per year.

To give you some scope on how SMALL the 800 Billion dollars is, the GDP of the US is around 15 Trillion, and the net worth of US households and non profits sit around 50 Trillion. 1.8 Trillion kept the Economy from imploding. 800 Billion may not even move the needle.

Are they that clueless?

Look, the Tea Party can be anti intellectual all they want, they can be anti-government all they want, but when you’re going around spreading misinformation and telling people, ‘no don’t do anything, the house will stop burning on it’s own!’ … The house is on fire! and while technically, it will stop burning at some point, by the time it stops, there will be nothing left but ashes.

She’d needs stop channeling ICP. She’ll be the ultimate joke candidate, who’s managed to fool 25% of the population into thinking she’s not a joke. I just hope that’s not enough to make her President.

147 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:22:40am
In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts.

The patients receive medical coverage through the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (AHCCCS), the state’s version of Medicaid. While it may be common for private insurance companies or government agencies to change eligibility requirements for medical procedures ahead of time, medical ethicists say authorizing a procedure and then reversing that decision is unheard of.

148 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:23:32am

re: #138 marjoriemoon

Allen West. OH MY F*ING GOD. How the hell did that happen, I don’t know.

There’s the veep candidate!

149 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:24:28am

re: #139 CuriousLurker

Amazing. The woman who lives in the isolated Fox bubble says President Obama is out of touch. What, pray tell, is Palin’s definition of the “average American”? I wonder if she’s in-touch with the millions upon millions of Americans who live in our country’s large urban areas? Has she ever addressed the concerns of those people, or do they not qualify as Real Americans™?

Give her enough rope and she’ll hang herself. But there are millions upon millions of Americans who don’t live in our country’s urban areas that do identify her to an extent.

To the extent that the vitriolic and divisive rhetoric is allowed to be in her camp primarily, it will work to the Dems’ advantage. Even “moderates” who identify with her more generally that the “elite left,” will not identify with her vitriolic rhetoric. If Dems match her rhetoric, they are forfeiting a competitive advantage.

150 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:25:04am

Considering that Bristol Palin is still gahlumping across the stage in DWTS, let’s not underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.

151 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:25:29am

re: #136 lostlakehiker
excellent analysis!

152 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:26:23am

re: #131 Talking Point Detective

Not sure I get your point here. She ran an alternating attacking/”I’m being victimized” campaign as VP. It was effective with some but not on the whole with independents. The question is whether the political context has changed. I think it has to a large degree, not the least because she’s been building her “I am a victim” strategy for two years.

Agree - but the fact is that a large number of Americans do identify with her. When you call her an idiot, they project that insult onto themselves. I think a better strategy is to take her down in a calm and calculated manner.

I would question how effectively she was taken down last time (the post-election analysis was all over the map), and I think that the context has changed. Not to say that I don’t hope you’re right - but I’m expressing skepticism about the effects of what I’ve seen so far.

The vitriolic opposition to the “Tea Party” doesn’t seem to have worked very well so far. It seems that the last election should be used as a yardstick of the effectiveness of that approach.

I call her an idiot because she is one. What I find funny (or ironic) is that the Right made fun of Hillary for years, particularly when she worked on healthcare during Bill’s administration - calling her fat and a lesbian were the big insults. I guess if you’re fat or gay means you’re stupid. Anyway, now most Republicans and even teabaggers wish Hillary was Prez. Although if she was, I wager nothing would have changed.

“How effectively she was taken down?” I’d say to the ground. They keep watering her, she keeps popping up, but she won’t grow. I don’t think victimhood was her strategy. She didn’t expect the attack from the media, who btw, does that to EVERYONE. What’s so special about her.

How many teabaggers actually won last month? Not too many, I think. A glitch in the program. When the next 2 years wash out, and nothing they want gets done, they’ll become disenfranchised and Sarah will just look like a RINO.

153 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:27:00am

re: #6 theheat

My dad thinks she’s one smart cookie. I told him maybe they should hold a spelling B for the next election.

My dad—a McCain supporter—thought so too for a while. But now he refers to her as a “hairdresser type.”

That’s sorta bad news for her.

154 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:29:24am

How do you make it to 10th grade (and to motherhood as well, apparently) with absolutely zero reading comprehension ability?

A Brave New World controversy

Sarah Sense-Wilson’s daughter was required to read the novel for a class at Nathan Hale. She is Native American, and her heart started to sink as she turned the pages to find more than 30 references to “savage natives.”

“She was very upset and she said, ‘Mom I need to tell you something, but I don’t want you to get mad. There’s a book I have to read in my class and it portrays Indian people as being savages and living on reservations,’” Sense-Wilson says.

She tried to read the book for herself.

“I was outraged when I read through the book. I had to keep putting it down because it was so hurtful,” says Sense-Wilson. “It was traumatizing to read how Indian people were being depicted.”

The text has a “high volume of racially offensive derogatory language and misinformation on Native Americans. In addition to the inaccurate imagery, and stereotype views, the text lacks literary value which is relevant to today’s contemporary multicultural society,” she wrote in a complaint earlier this year to Nathan Hale and district administrators.

155 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:30:45am

re: #54 recusancy

I want her to use the “Obama’s inexperienced” meme if she runs against him in 2012. Only the most brain-dead, hyper-partisan hack will justify her calling an incumbent President inexperienced.

156 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:31:10am

re: #24 HappyWarrior

Yeah, the primaries are going to be brutal if she runs. Don’t think for a minute hhat her opponents won’t hammer her for quitting on her state. She’s going to find out the hard way that it’s not only Dems and libs who want to see her go down in flames. Seriously though, I saw some clips from her show the other night and I could not believe I was watching a woman that some see as presidential. I try to be a fair man and unbiased but I can’t see her appeal at all even among right wingers. I mean really who would want this fool as president? She’s proudly ignorant not to mention petty and divisive as hell. I really think she’s everything the right says Obama is. She’s very narcisstic.

Dude, I’ve been saying this since 2008. Olympia Snowe looked like she wanted to rip her face off a few times.

157 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:31:49am

Palin has no shot against Obama … none … zero …. zilch …. nada.

As we saw with some of the tea partiers, extremism may help you get the nomination from your party, but most of the country will reject these types in a general election. Sure, there are pockets of the country that will vote for a rand paul or michele bachmann, but there are also pockets that will vote for a Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich, who are far left.

The secret to winning national elections is having a message that your base likes, but being flexible and pragmatic enough to attract voters from the ranks of independents and the “other” party. Palin is not capable of this. And Obama PRAYS that she is his opponent. As does the NY Times editorial board.

158 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:32:18am

re: #139 CuriousLurker

re: #89 wrenchwench

“I’ve never ran from a fight.”

No, she didn’t say that! Worse than running from a fight, she ran after she won the fight! What the hell is that? LOL

She’s a big joke and most people see her as a big joke. They’ve been running all kinds of polls with her against Huckabee, Romney, even Gingrich and she comes in last in them all.

159 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:33:31am

re: #156 JRCMYP

Olympia Snowe looked like she wanted to rip her face off a few times.

So did Kay Bailey Hutchison. I still remember the look on Kay’s face when Palin was announced as VP. She looked like someone had kicked her in the teeth, then expected her to smile pretty for the camera.

160 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:33:43am

re: #152 marjoriemoon

I call her an idiot because she is one. What I find funny (or ironic) is that the Right made fun of Hillary for years, particularly when she worked on healthcare during Bill’s administration - calling her fat and a lesbian were the big insults. I guess if you’re fat or gay means you’re stupid. Anyway, now most Republicans and even teabaggers wish Hillary was Prez. Although if she was, I wager nothing would have changed.

“How effectively she was taken down?” I’d say to the ground. They keep watering her, she keeps popping up, but she won’t grow. I don’t think victimhood was her strategy. She didn’t expect the attack from the media, who btw, does that to EVERYONE. What’s so special about her.

How many teabaggers actually won last month? Not too many, I think. A glitch in the program. When the next 2 years wash out, and nothing they want gets done, they’ll become disenfranchised and Sarah will just look like a RINO.

The Tea Party movement effectively brought out votes for the GOP. A lack of turnout among minority and youth hurt the Dems chances, but a bigger factor was the swing among independents. Surely, the economy was part of that too, but I don’t see how anyone can conclude that the Tea Party/Fox News electoral campaign/frightwing AM radio were not a part of the electoral outcomes.

I am not questioning, in the least, that she’s an “idiot.” I’m not questioning the “unfairness” of the rightwing rhetoric. That is all a given. What I’m questioning is what is the proper counter-strategy.

A big piece of Obama’s effectiveness in the campaign he ran and in his personal style was his decision to try to remain “above the fray.” I found it incredibly frustrating at times because I wanted him to fight extremist rhetoric angrily - but in the end, I think his strategy was more effective.

161 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:34:43am

oh, and about those Palin Inflation concerns?

The cost of living rose less than forecast in October and housing starts dropped, validating Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke’s decision to give the U.S. economy another dose of monetary stimulus.

Fucking Economics, How does it work?

162 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:35:35am

re: #154 negativ

How do you make it to 10th grade (and to motherhood as well, apparently) with absolutely zero reading comprehension ability?

A Brave New World controversy

I’m confused about your comment. She has a problem with reading comprehension?

163 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:36:51am

re: #152 marjoriemoon

How many teabaggers actually won last month? Not too many, I think. A glitch in the program.

This was the real glitch:

In 2010, polls showed that young people were still supportive of Obama and the Democrats. But only 20.9 percent of them bothered to vote.

CIRCLE director Peter Levine said, “For liberal students, this election felt, at best, as a defensive move, protecting a Congress they don’t like that much.”

This has nothing to do with mean things said about the Tea Party, and everything to do with congressional Democrats (and Obama himself) being seen as weak and caving to the GOP.

164 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:37:02am

re: #149 Talking Point Detective

Give her enough rope and she’ll hang herself. But there are millions upon millions of Americans who don’t live in our country’s urban areas that do identify her to an extent.

To the extent that the vitriolic and divisive rhetoric is allowed to be in her camp primarily, it will work to the Dems’ advantage. Even “moderates” who identify with her more generally that the “elite left,” will not identify with her vitriolic rhetoric. If Dems match her rhetoric, they are forfeiting a competitive advantage.

Well, if she were to run against President Obama—and at present I assume that would be the case—then I’m not really worried about vitriolic rhetoric as it’s not his style. Besides, she’ll doubtless have several GOP competitors waiting to cut her off at the knees to prevent her from ever becoming the nominee.

165 abbyadams  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:37:53am

I know ha ha hee hee ho ho Palin. I have decided that I am becoming afraid of her, and not in a “Sarah scares teh libtards because she is a STRONG CONSERVATIVE woman!11!1!” type of way.

Oddly, it’s because of the Dancing With the Stars featuring Bristol Palin debacle. I don’t even watch the damn show, but I do know (through friends and the magic of Facebook) that Bristol, well, sucks, at dancing, and yet she keeps winning round after round because of a well organized passionate group of fans. It doesn’t matter that the LIBERAL JUDGES DON’T KNOW ANYTHING by giving her the worst scores every week…she’s cute, and gosh darn tries her heart out. Couple that with news like this: (via Sullivan

Last week, Politico announced that Nancy Reagan was going to host the first Republican nominee debate at the Reagan Library in the spring of 2011, and that Politico and NBC would be asking the questions. I wrote a column that said that’s a terrible idea. Not only is it too early, but I don’t think that we should cede the right to select the Republican nominee, or at least ask those questions at the beginning, to MSM. It ought to be different kinds of journalists.

Different kinds = Medved, Levin, Limbaugh, and Hannity. (According to Hewett.)

I’m beginning to see some real problems with bubble-dom (on both right and left, I can’t even read Kos anymore, they’re ready to primary Obama for doing…I dunno, exactly what he said he was going to do?) And President Palin is becoming a frightening possibility.

166 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:40:53am

re: #154 negativ

How do you make it to 10th grade (and to motherhood as well, apparently) with absolutely zero reading comprehension ability?

A Brave New World controversy

Sheesh.
It takes place in…2500 or so.
The “savages” are not what she thinks they are.
Sheesh, again.

167 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:42:26am

Disobedience Is The True Foundation Of Liberty

Youtube Video

“do you want some thug squeezing the private parts of your babies”
168 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:42:56am

16 of the Dumbest Things Americans Believe — And the Right-Wing Lies Behind Them

We’ve gone far beyond Stephen Colbert’s “truthiness” into a more “truth-be-damned” environment; what Rick Perlstein described in the Daily Beast as a “mendocracy. As in, rule by liars.”

Here are some examples of recent ways we have made inroads in ignorance:

Polling data during and after last week’s midterm elections suggested that many Americans genuinely believe President Obama has raised their taxes — even though the reality is that our president actually lowered them for most of us. This means that people trust pundits like Rush Limbaugh, a major force behind spreading that lie, over the numbers on their own tax returns.

Another recent phenomenon? Half of new Congressmen don’t believe in the reality of global warming. It’s not that they don’t just disagree on the source or the severity of the problem. They flat out don’t think the world is getting warmer—despite the evidence outside their windows.

The new Congress will probably try to restore millions of dollars of funding for scientifically inaccurate, largely disastrous abstinence-only curriculum in schools, many of which have been shown to spread lies like “condoms don’t work” and “abortion causes cancer.”

169 iossarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:43:36am

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Disobedience Is The True Foundation Of Liberty*

* Does not apply in the case of brown skin.

170 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:43:38am

re: #164 CuriousLurker

Besides, she’ll doubtless have several GOP competitors waiting to cut her off at the knees to prevent her from ever becoming the nominee.

Given her competitors are probably peeps that attend the Value Voters Summit (because the GOP has drummed out the RINOS), I don’t know there’s an upside. Whomever, it would indicate we get far fringe right GOP candidate running against Obama. It might wear a skirt, or might not.

171 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:43:48am

re: #163 publicityStunted

This was the real glitch:

This has nothing to do with mean things said about the Tea Party, and everything to do with congressional Democrats (and Obama himself) being seen as weak and caving to the GOP.

The difference in the youth vote compared to 2006 was not significant enough to explain the vastly different results.

What statistical evidence do you have to show that the difference that did occur was due to the “weak and caving” Obama and Dems?

But more significant than the difference in the youth vote (or the minority vote) was the greater turnout for the GOP among independents. Do you really think that is attributable to the “weak and caving” Obama and Dems?

172 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:45:49am

re: #164 CuriousLurker

Well, if she were to run against President Obama—and at present I assume that would be the case—then I’m not really worried about vitriolic rhetoric as it’s not his style. Besides, she’ll doubtless have several GOP competitors waiting to cut her off at the knees to prevent her from ever becoming the nominee.

Yeah - good point. His style is likely to trump the negative impact of derisive rhetoric from “the left.” In that sense, although I’d prefer a less centrist candidate, I hope he runs.

173 DaddyG  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:46:14am

re: #166 Varek Raith

Sheesh.
It takes place in…2500 or so.
The “savages” are not what she thinks they are.
Sheesh, again.

Next up- banning the movie Ghandi because it portrays Native Americans as short little men in glasses wearing home spun. /

174 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:46:16am

re: #153 JRCMYP

I had dyed-in-the wool conservative and/or Republican friends refuse to vote McCain because she was the VP nominee, and that was here in Texas. Some of them crossed party lines and voted Obama, and others stayed home out of principle.

I don’t know what would happen if she was at the top of the ticket.

175 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:46:18am

I agree that it might be counter-productive for the Democratic Party to attack Sarah Palin for being dumb, but I’m not a shill for either party and I intend to continue calling it as I see it. And Sarah Palin is a religious fanatic, a creationist, a global warming denier — incredibly ignorant and apparently proud of it. She wears her stupidity like a badge of achievement.

176 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:47:17am

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Disobedience Is The True Foundation Of Liberty


[Video]
“do you want some thug squeezing the private parts of your babies”

Unzipped pants = slavery!!11ty!

177 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:47:23am

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

O_o

Speaking of antiquated religious beliefs, about a decade ago, 20 percent of Americans still believed that the sun revolves around the earth. That’s just sad, considering that even the Vatican has let Galileo off the hook for being right.
178 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:48:39am

re: #160 Talking Point Detective

The Tea Party movement effectively brought out votes for the GOP. A lack of turnout among minority and youth hurt the Dems chances, but a bigger factor was the swing among independents. Surely, the economy was part of that too, but I don’t see how anyone can conclude that the Tea Party/Fox News electoral campaign/frightwing AM radio were not a part of the electoral outcomes.

I am not questioning, in the least, that she’s an “idiot.” I’m not questioning the “unfairness” of the rightwing rhetoric. That is all a given. What I’m questioning is what is the proper counter-strategy.

A big piece of Obama’s effectiveness in the campaign he ran and in his personal style was his decision to try to remain “above the fray.” I found it incredibly frustrating at times because I wanted him to fight extremist rhetoric angrily - but in the end, I think his strategy was more effective.

Obama did a lot more than remain above-the-fray, though. His message spoke to minorities. He used technology and the internet like no other candidate before him. There was no way in hell a Republican was going to win in 2008 after 8 years of Bush anyway, but regardless, Obama had an awesome campaign and I say that as a Hillary supporter.

Counter-strategy to me is just doing what they did in 2008. I do think last month’s elections were a fluke. Maybe it’s wishful thinking (I have a tendency towards that!), but there would have been a lot more teaparty wins if the country was really lurching Right. I don’t think it is. Anyway, despite whatever wins the Republicans get, in another few generations, they’ll be so small as to be almost non-existent. Immigrants vote Dem, and in another couple generations, the population will be 50% non-white.

179 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:49:03am

re: #166 Varek Raith

Sheesh.
It takes place in…2500 or so.
The “savages” are not what she thinks they are.
Sheesh, again.

Reading comprehension fail.

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:49:38am

re: #176 wrenchwench

Unzipped pants = slavery!!11ty!

Fox has been insane for years now but they still impress me with the shit they come up with. I’m almost ready to start predicting that they’ll actually hire Alex Jones. I think they could get away with it.

181 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:50:03am

re: #170 theheat

Given her competitors are probably peeps that attend the Value Voters Summit (because the GOP has drummed out the RINOS), I don’t know there’s an upside. Whomever, it would indicate we get far fringe right GOP candidate running against Obama. It might wear a skirt, or might not.

True that. I keep hoping the GOP will come to it’s sense before the primaries, but it doesn’t look like there’s much chance of that now. As a matter of fact, I was just reading about that very thing yesterday on the Religious Right watch website yesterday: Tealigious Right Gloats, Thanks God for GOP Victories.

182 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:51:16am

re: #175 Charles

She wears her stupidity like a badge of achievement.

Which seems to be the fashion on the right. Only an elitist, anti-commonsense liberal would have a problem with that.

183 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:51:18am

re: #175 Charles

I agree that it might be counter-productive for the Democratic Party to attack Sarah Palin for being dumb, but I’m not a shill for either party and I intend to continue calling it as I see it. And Sarah Palin is a religious fanatic, a creationist, a global warming denier — incredibly ignorant and apparently proud of it. She wears her stupidity like a badge of achievement.

I think that’s the dilemma. Agreed, she proudly wears the badge of stupidity proudly, but it also comes across (to many) as “Aw shucks, I’m just a straight-shooting simple folk just like y’all.”

I think there’s an important distinction in tone between calling her “dumb” which is essentially unprovable, and calling her out for positions which fly in the face of all known science (e.g., that the Earth is 6,000 years old), or for her wish to create a theocratic form of government - which is all easily provable.

184 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:51:54am

re: #171 Talking Point Detective

re: #171 Talking Point Detective

The difference in the youth vote compared to 2006 was not significant enough to explain the vastly different results.

Not on its own, but it’s a major part of it.
[Link: themoderatevoice.com…]

The data are quite clear. 23% of the electorate was aged 65 and up, while only 11% were aged 18-29. For comparison’s sake, in the 2006 election those over 65 comprised 19% of the vote. Younger voters were still only 12%.

So there were more older voters this time than in 2006. And, of course, there were a LOT more older voters this time than in the Presidential election of 2008, when there were actually MORE 18-29s than senior citizens.

In 2006, 65s and up actually split their votes 49-49 between Democrats and Republicans. In 2010, the elderly voted 59-38 for the GOP – a massive change of 21 points. For non-seniors, the 2006 election broke down 54-44 for the Dems, and in 2010 went 52-48 for the GOP – a shift of 14 points.

185 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:52:04am

re: #181 CuriousLurker

True that. I keep hoping the GOP will come to it’s sense before the primaries, but it doesn’t look like there’s much chance of that now. As a matter of fact, I was just reading about that very thing yesterday on the Religious Right watch website yesterday: Tealigious Right Gloats, Thanks God for GOP Victories.

They are thanking the wrong person.
Image: family_guy_blue_harvest_star_destroyer.jpg
;)

186 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:52:14am

re: #163 publicityStunted

This was the real glitch:

This has nothing to do with mean things said about the Tea Party, and everything to do with congressional Democrats (and Obama himself) being seen as weak and caving to the GOP.

That was terrible. I don’t understand it. I think we had a lot of new voters in 2008 that didn’t understand or care about the importance of Nov 2010. That’s all I can come up with. We should have kept more seats.

But then you have, Ron Klein, a long standing, well-liked Congressman lose his seat to that nutjob Allen West. That to me was the glitchy part. I don’t think that kind of thing will happen again. At least I hope not.

187 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:52:17am

I think the most effect line of attack that the Republican party can play against Palin is the one that Swartzenegger employed over her comments on climate change about a year ago.

To wit…

Palin prompted the exchange by launching an extended attack against climate science…
[snip]
How would Schwarzenegger answer Palin?

The governor might have expressed disagreement with her views, but that would only have served Palin, by amplifying her criticism of Copenhagen and treating her as a serious voice in the debate. He could have attacked her personally and directly, but that would have played into her hands. Palin’s persona is built on the notion of her as a victim, under attack by politically correct forces; in this theology, she is a common-sense truth-teller, a stand-in for regular folks and their resentments.

Schwarzenegger understood this instinctively. So he came at her sideways, not disputing her views or her brain, but simply asking a question about Palin’s motives.

“You have to ask: what was she trying to accomplish?” Schwarzenegger told the Financial Times.

“Is she really interested in this subject or is she interested in her career and in winning the [Republican presidential] nomination? You have to take all these things with a grain of salt.” He followed with a similarly indirect dig on ABC’s Good Morning America.

This was effective for two reasons. First, Schwarzenegger was reminding people of Palin’s selfishness; she had quit her job as governor Alaska to pursue personal goals, as most Americans know. Second, Schwarzenegger’s comments put Palin on the defensive. He was challenging the very heart of her populist appeal—her authenticity. Did she really mean what she said, or was this just another bit of self-promotion?

Schwarzenegger was the perfect person to deliver this message: the Hollywood star of 30 years saying that this was just another starlet trying to make her mark. He had seen it all before.

Palin would have been wise to let the matter drop there. Instead, Palin, accustomed to being on offense, took the bait.

It’s worth a read. Because really, she’s not that hard to delegitimize. But Republicans have been afraid to do it for reasons I just don’t understand.

188 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:52:34am

re: #175 Charles

1.) please call my ad and tell him that, so he hears it from more than one person.

2.) I think it’s important to travel back in time, and note during the campaign Sarah said just enough to alleviate some people’s concerns she was rabidly pro life and rabidly creationist and not a climate change denier. After the election, the mask came off, and she’s been vocally anti-abortion, a hard core creationist, and a climate change denier, that thinks our country should return to its Christian roots. Thing is, it’s what she always was.

She reminds me of a dumb dog, that knows just enough to stay out of trouble when it suits them. Dumb, but clever.

189 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:53:39am

re: #181 CuriousLurker

You and I are shit to them, for entirely different reasons. But we’re still shit. Charming, huh?

190 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:53:42am

re: #185 Varek Raith

They are thanking the wrong person.
Image: family_guy_blue_harvest_star_destroyer.jpg
;)

LOL! Good one.

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:53:55am

re: #144 theheat

Colin Powell mentioned that very thing last election, being from an urban area. He found it offensive. Then he voted for Obama.

It was offensive. The whole ‘small-town America’ thing was less cute if you were watching it from a major urban center. And the McCain campaign did not do with a light touch.

192 abbyadams  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:54:34am

re: #183 Talking Point Detective

The thing is that, if you look closely, even that’s a fail. I couldn’t stomach watching the TLC show - but she shoots a gun in the promo, and even to me, whose arsenal consists of an old 22, that she’s no pro. I read someone picking apart her fishing style, too. Fraud.

193 Mongo only pawn... in game of life.  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:54:52am

re: #123 Varek Raith
Because Reagan and Bush were RINO’s?
The plan is NOTHING GOOD while Obama is President.
Actually he thinks it’s SMERSH and he thinks he’s Bond. James Bond./

194 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:55:01am

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

It was offensive. The whole ‘small-town America’ thing was less cute if you were watching it from a major urban center. And the McCain campaign did not do with a light touch.

Seriously.

195 DaddyG  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:55:23am

I think Palin will be less relevant in 2012 than she is now. She’s already made the move from Executive to Talk Show Fodder.

The Dems losing in 2010 had to do with a lot of things, not the least of which is the anti-incumbant party swing that always accompanies the second year of a new Presidency. They also had a lot more seats up for grabs in the House.

Blaming the other guys propaganda or blaming the American public for being dumb is a losing strategy for any side. Its also missing the point.

If you want the American public to vote for you there is a need to sell your wares in a way that speaks to them - not over them. Anyone who wants to win in 2012 will have to find their inner populist without going over the deep end with it.

196 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:55:32am

re: #175 Charles

I agree that it might be counter-productive for the Democratic Party to attack Sarah Palin for being dumb, but I’m not a shill for either party and I intend to continue calling it as I see it. And Sarah Palin is a religious fanatic, a creationist, a global warming denier — incredibly ignorant and apparently proud of it. She wears her stupidity like a badge of achievement.

And I don’t disagree with you Charles. But I think the best attack against her is by centrist Republicans who aren’t afraid to name her for what she is: a grifter.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:55:45am

re: #154 negativ

How do you make it to 10th grade (and to motherhood as well, apparently) with absolutely zero reading comprehension ability?

A Brave New World controversy

I once had a parent object to “The Giver” because the children are taking PILLS.

(I don’t think she read as far as the infanticide.)

198 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:56:14am

re: #189 theheat

You and I are shit to them, for entirely different reasons. But we’re still shit. Charming, huh?

OOGA BOOGA!
-Varek Raith, SCARY ATHEIST.

199 iossarian  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:56:29am

re: #196 JRCMYP

And I don’t disagree with you Charles. But I think the best attack against her is by centrist Republicans who aren’t afraid to name her for what she is: a grifter.

Who are these centrist Republicans of whom you speak?

200 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:57:03am

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Once they discovered folksy sold well, they played it for all it was worth. Totally counterfeit, and basically pissed all over anyone not dressed in overalls holding a freakin’ pitchfork.

201 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:57:14am

re: #178 marjoriemoon

Maybe it’s wishful thinking (I have a tendency towards that!), but there would have been a lot more teaparty wins if the country was really lurching Right. I don’t think it is. Anyway, despite whatever wins the Republicans get, in another few generations, they’ll be so small as to be almost non-existent. Immigrants vote Dem, and in another couple generations, the population will be 50% non-white.


I don’t think that the country is lurching right - and that is part of my point. It leaned right in the last election after leaning left in the previous election. The “tipping point” is a delicate balance, and in particular, strategies from the left, by definition, require a more nuanced approach. GOPers can get away with a sledgehammer approach - I don’t think that Dems can. I can’t think of many examples of that working for Dems, and I’ve seen countless examples of it working for the GOP.

No doubt, the long-term demographics speak well for the Dems - but what happens in the meantime is pretty fucking important. I became far less confident about overlooking short-term electoral results after Bush got elected.

202 bodrules  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:57:41am

Palin for President?

Here was me thinking that the current crop of UK politicians were the most useless in the Western world, then this pops up on my screen, you guys (and girls) just can’t stop yourelves from trumping the old mother country can you…

:-P

203 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:58:17am

re: #198 Varek Raith

OOGA BOOGA!
-Varek Raith, SCARY ATHEIST.

Don’t make me break out a banana.

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:58:35am

re: #192 abbyadams

The thing is that, if you look closely, even that’s a fail. I couldn’t stomach watching the TLC show - but she shoots a gun in the promo, and even to me, whose arsenal consists of an old 22, that she’s no pro. I read someone picking apart her fishing style, too. Fraud.

She’d be far from the first candidate to overemphasize the rugged and homespun for the benefit of her campaign, but given how relentlessly her supporters harped and harped on her shootin’ and fishin’ credentials, I do feel entitled to be slightly snarky.

205 CarleeCork  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:59:36am

re: #105 PT Barnum

Keep in mind that she still had strong support from certain quarters even after the Charlie Gibson/Katie Couric interviews.


Let’s not forget the large number of males that have sexual fantasies about her.

206 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:59:50am

re: #189 theheat

You and I are shit to them, for entirely different reasons. But we’re still shit. Charming, huh?

Heh, yeah. I think she offends a lot more people than she realizes, they just aren’t as vocal about it as the rest of us.

207 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 10:59:53am

re: #195 DaddyG

I think Palin will be less relevant in 2012 than she is now. She’s already made the move from Executive to Talk Show Fodder.

The Dems losing in 2010 had to do with a lot of things, not the least of which is the anti-incumbant party swing that always accompanies the second year of a new Presidency. They also had a lot more seats up for grabs in the House.

Blaming the other guys propaganda or blaming the American public for being dumb is a losing strategy for any side. Its also missing the point.

If you want the American public to vote for you there is a need to sell your wares in a way that speaks to them - not over them. Anyone who wants to win in 2012 will have to find their inner populist without going over the deep end with it.

Excellent and the bit I highlighted had a lot to do with Obama winning.

208 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:00:19am

re: #187 JRCMYP

I think the most effect line of attack that the Republican party can play against Palin is the one that Swartzenegger employed over her comments on climate change about a year ago.

To wit…

It’s worth a read. Because really, she’s not that hard to delegitimize. But Republicans have been afraid to do it for reasons I just don’t understand.

I agree with that. Her self-centeredness is pretty obvious, and calling her on that is something that would create opposition in less ideologically-fixed voters (probably the vast majority of Americans, that is) that would be disinclined to identify with calling her an idiot.

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:00:23am

re: #205 CarleeCork

Let’s not forget the large number of males that have sexual fantasies about her.

Lots of males have sexual fantasies about Jenna Jameson.

Come to think of it, I would vote for Jenna Jameson before I would vote for Sarah Palin. And I don’t even know what her politics are like.

210 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:00:32am

re: #205 CarleeCork

Let’s not forget the large number of males that have sexual fantasies about her.

I dreamed about her making me a sandwich…

211 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:01:07am

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I dreamed about her making me a sandwich…

Moose on rye?

212 bodrules  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:01:16am

re: #158 marjoriemoon

re: #89 wrenchwench

She’s a big joke and most people see her as a big joke. They’ve been running all kinds of polls with her against Huckabee, Romney, even Gingrich and she comes in last in them all.

Aye well just make sure you reserve your laughter until she’s beat, as more than one opponent has laughed at his rival only to find themselves on the ground with their rivals boot on their neck.

213 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:01:24am

re: #203 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don’t make me break out a banana.

Oh noes!
Teh bane of mah non-belief beliefs!

214 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:01:33am

For the record, if a person is female, assume a man has fantasized about having sex with her at some point.

215 elizajane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:02:00am

re: #205 CarleeCork

Let’s not forget the large number of males that have sexual fantasies about her.

Yes, but they presumably dream about her becoming an airport security screener, not POTUS.

216 DaddyG  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:02:25am

re: #201 Talking Point Detective
Thinking Conservative/Liberal demographics match racial lines is also a trap. As we get more diverse so will our political views and dividing lines. The Democrats will pay heavily if they take the minority vote for granted.

217 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:03:30am

re: #195 DaddyG


“… blaming the American public for being dumb is a losing strategy for any side.

What I find hard to believe is that anyone would even question that. Many people identify with her. Calling her stupid doesn’t exactly look like a winning strategy to me. Saying that you have to be “stupid” to vote for her seems even more obviously a losing strategy.

218 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:04:09am

re: #211 Decatur Deb

Moose on rye?

Turkey on wheat, with bacon, cheddar and avacado.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:04:40am

re: #217 Talking Point Detective

What I find hard to believe is that anyone would even question that. Many people identify with her. Calling her stupid doesn’t exactly look like a winning strategy to me. Saying that you have to be “stupid” to vote for her seems even more obviously a losing strategy.

It may not be a strategy, but it’s God’s own truth from where I’m standing, and I don’t make strategy, I just vote.

220 bodrules  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:05:20am

re: #175 Charles

I agree that it might be counter-productive for the Democratic Party to attack Sarah Palin for being dumb, but I’m not a shill for either party and I intend to continue calling it as I see it. And Sarah Palin is a religious fanatic, a creationist, a global warming denier — incredibly ignorant and apparently proud of it. She wears her stupidity like a badge of achievement.


Ahhh I thought I remembered her pandering to that section of the GOP, do we know if she really really, hand on heart hope to die, believes that tripe or is just doing the cynical play to the perceived base of the party (even if the militant entryists are in no way representative of the overall electorate).

221 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:05:48am

*SIGH* I’ve gotta get back to work. TTYL, lizards.

222 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:05:48am

re: #217 Talking Point Detective

What I find hard to believe is that anyone would even question that. Many people identify with her. Calling her stupid doesn’t exactly look like a winning strategy to me. Saying that you have to be “stupid” to vote for her seems even more obviously a losing strategy.

I’m not calling her ‘dumb’ as part of a ‘strategy.’ I’m calling her dumb because she’s dumber than a blue soap dish.

223 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:31am

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

She’d be far from the first candidate to overemphasize the rugged and homespun for the benefit of her campaign, but given how relentlessly her supporters harped and harped on her shootin’ and fishin’ credentials, I do feel entitled to be slightly snarky.

How much of a “cowboy” was Reagan, really? How much of a “down-home Texan” was Bush. These people are professional actors supported by very highly-paid handlers. Palin is pretty damn good at putting on her act. I’m not sure how many people, to whom the “jus’ plain folks” character appeals, are going to take her down because of her shooting technique.

224 Virginia Plain  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:32am

2012 is the year I graduate, and the pickings in my field, like other fields are slim. This and Palin’s nomination is the impetus to get off my butt and get out of the slowly boiling water. This country is dying, like Rome did before it’s ultimate fall, and guess what took the place of a once-thriving center of culture and democracy? Theocracy of course.

225 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:38am

re: #222 Charles

I’m not calling ‘dumb’ as part of a ‘strategy.’ I’m calling her dumb because she’s dumber than a blue soap dish.

Come on now, at least the soap dish serves a practical purpose.
;)

226 APox  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:39am

re: #205 CarleeCork

Let’s not forget the large number of males that have sexual fantasies about her.

It’s mom id like to fuck, not president, IMO. :).

227 Stanley Sea  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:46am

re: #222 Charles

I’m not calling her ‘dumb’ as part of a ‘strategy.’ I’m calling her dumb because she’s dumber than a blue soap dish.


I just heard “hey!” coming from my bathroom!

228 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:47am

re: #199 iossarian

Well, there are a few here in New England. (kicks the dirt).

229 bodrules  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:48am

re: #214 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

For the record, if a person is female, assume a man has fantasized about having sex with her at some point.

Err Rosie O’Donnell included?

230 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:06:49am

re: #217 Talking Point Detective

Were you one of those people who thought Kerry should just ignore the Swift Boat attack ads?

231 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:07:12am

re: #217 Talking Point Detective

This round, the Dems need to defend Obama’s achievements. They didn’t do that last time. They stood around and shrugged, basically, while the right wing screechers screeched. They won’t get away with that twice.

By showing what he’s done, and how little she’s done, or is capable of doing, it doesn’t necessarily stoop to the level of calling her stupid, or the people who vote for her stupid.

(But she is though.)

232 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:07:32am

re: #217 Talking Point Detective

What I find hard to believe is that anyone would even question that. Many people identify with her. Calling her stupid doesn’t exactly look like a winning strategy to me. Saying that you have to be “stupid” to vote for her seems even more obviously a losing strategy.

Saying the electorate is stupid is the negation of the basic democratic and Democratic assumption. They’re not stupid, but they have been masterfully lied-to.

233 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:08:32am

re: #7 lawhawk

No surprise about her contemplating a run. She’s got a built in constituency and could potentially win the 2012 GOP primary because she’s in a better position to cater to the right wing that has come to dominate the party and her GOTV would be considerable in a primary.

She has an echo chamber supporting her that will uncritically support her despite because of her all too familiar shortcomings.

Fix’d

They love her for all the things we find monumentally dis-qualifying and contemptible.

234 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:10:09am

re: #232 Decatur Deb

Saying the electorate is stupid is the negation of the basic democratic and Democratic assumption. They’re not stupid, but they have been masterfully lied-to.

DWTS, anyone? Bueller?

235 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:10:41am

re: #208 Talking Point Detective

I agree with that. Her self-centeredness is pretty obvious, and calling her on that is something that would create opposition in less ideologically-fixed voters (probably the vast majority of Americans, that is) that would be disinclined to identify with calling her an idiot.

I don’t think anyone flat out calls her an idiot. Not in the media. I’m just some poor cyber-shlub with a big mouth so I can call her whatever I please.

When they finish raking her over the coals for her ridiculous remarks and what she stands for, she comes out looking like an idiot - but that’s a lot more words to type.

237 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:11:26am

You know, maybe it’s time for a Sarah Palin Facebook Post Generator.

238 Slap  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:11:51am

re: #222 Charles

I’m not calling her ‘dumb’ as part of a ‘strategy.’ I’m calling her dumb because she’s dumber than a blue soap dish.

So, you’re implying that other colors of soap dish are not worthy of consideration?

Elitist!

/

239 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:11:59am

re: #208 Talking Point Detective

I agree with that. Her self-centeredness is pretty obvious, and calling her on that is something that would create opposition in less ideologically-fixed voters (probably the vast majority of Americans, that is) that would be disinclined to identify with calling her an idiot.

There’s no reason to call her an idiot in the middle of a campaign, since SNL and Tina Fey pretty much burned that image into the public mind pretty effectively, and Caribou Barbie has only reinforced it over the last two years.

Just point out that she quit on her state after 2 years and couldn’t even finish out a single term as governor, and she did it in a cash grab. Point out her deliberate media isolation (impossible for a Presidential nominee, never mind a President) and her refusal to answer anything of substance. There’s plenty to work with without Obama having to lower himself down to calling her stupid, which he wouldn’t do anyway.

240 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:12:01am

re: #234 JRCMYP

DWTS, anyone? Bueller?

ACORN, Diebold, Ron Paul pollsters.

241 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:12:02am

re: #237 Charles

You know, maybe it’s time for a Sarah Palin Facebook Post Generator.

and/or twitter post…

242 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:12:22am

re: #216 DaddyG

Thinking Conservative/Liberal demographics match racial lines is also a trap. As we get more diverse so will our political views and dividing lines. The Democrats will pay heavily if they take the minority vote for granted.

They’ve been doing that for a very long time, though. The Dems, as a party, have basically refused to differentiate themselves from Republicans on very important economic issues. I.e., Clinton’s welfare reform, his deregulation of the financial sector, his capitulation on appointing hacks to regulatory agencies, etc.. They have been better than Repubs on those issues, with respect to the interests of minorities, by a matter of degree but not kind.

But it’s not like minorities are going to go out and vote for Repubs. The more divisive the Repubs trend, the more that Dems can just take advantage of the shifting demographics.

243 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:12:26am

re: #237 Charles

You know, maybe it’s time for a Sarah Palin Facebook Post Generator.

LOL You’ll have to work closely with Summer for that one!

244 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:12:32am

re: #236 WindUpBird

Check this out:

Youtube Video
245 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:13:54am

re: #229 bodrules

Err Rosie O’Donnell included?

I did say at some point. I guarantee that at some point, around the movies “Another stakeout”, “The Flintstones” or “Exit to Eden”, some one considered it.

246 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:14:15am

re: #24 HappyWarrior

Yeah, the primaries are going to be brutal if she runs. Don’t think for a minute hhat her opponents won’t hammer her for quitting on her state.

You saw just how female GOP candidates were out to mock the masculinity of their opponents (no matter Dem or GOP primary types)

Going after Palin directly is not going to fly unless it is a woman doing it. A male candidate would have to be willing to kamikazi out of the race completely to do damage to her…and even then it may still backfire and just make her untouchable. The problem with candidates who are nothing but culture war grievance hacks is that when you attack anything about their lack of substance or knowledge…you also attack all the supporters who identify personally with everything about the candidate.

247 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:14:43am

re: #231 theheat


This will require that the Democrats show a spine.

To a thinking person, the idea of a Palin presidency is a joke. She has the full support of Fox and a massive right wing media bubble. If the Dems do not fight very hard and in a concerted manner to penetrate that bubble, a Palin presidency is possible.

It is the Dem’s fight to loose.

The Dems have a magnificent ability to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory.

I think that because many of us are not crazy and do not think in wingnut terms, we are too quick to brush aside the threat. We smugly assume that no sane person could vote for Palin - and then smugly assume that there are a lot more sane people out there than there are.

Maybe sane isn’t even the right word. Duped and unduped might be better choices or perhaps better informed and less easily led.

A huge amount of America actually thinks that Republicans care about the middle class despite 60 years of policies designed to crush it to the benefit of the corporations. Hell a huge amount thinks that Palin and Bachman and all the rest, and the simple soundbytes they spout make some sense in simplifying a complex world.

The dems miss the point that the Average American does not think in terms of complexities or nuances. They need a coherent, simple and strong message that each one says over and over - just like the GOP does.

If the Dems fail to do this we may very well see a Palin presidency. Americans are that dumb. The Fox media empire and associated pundits are that big and that dishonest. To date, the Dems have been that weak.

248 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:14:51am

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

It may not be a strategy, but it’s God’s own truth from where I’m standing, and I don’t make strategy, I just vote.

Ok, I get that. But seriously, do you really think that anyone who would vote for Palin is “stupid?”

I used to work in construction. I met a lot of racists that could figure out complicated construction problems very quickly. There are different forms of “intelligence,” and I’d question anyone who categorizes any given person’s intelligence on the basis of a limited context.

249 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:15:17am

re: #237 Charles

Pretty please. And have a changing graphic that indicates her mood… by however she drew her eyebrows that day.

250 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:15:27am

re: #237 Charles

You know, maybe it’s time for a Sarah Palin Facebook Post Generator.

Yes it is!

251 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:16:47am

re: #232 Decatur Deb

Saying the electorate is stupid is the negation of the basic democratic and Democratic assumption. They’re not stupid, but they have been masterfully lied-to.


I am in awe of the effectiveness of propaganda.

252 HC4BO  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:17:19am

I love how even Faux News pundits take jabs at her when they think no one else is listening and yet they will be her primary gramophone IF and When she officially steps into the fray …


I keep saying. Her minions better start looking for methods of voting more than once because unlike in the case of internet voting, multiple bogus emails ain’t gonna help them in the voting booth …

253 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:11am

Palin is stupid. No argument from me. But as much as people think having her win the Republican nomination and run against Obama would ensure his victory, I say “never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.” We’ve had many, many less-than-bright presidents. Call me an elite, chardonnay-sipping, overly-educated New Englander, but somehow I think that America tends to get the President we deserve, not the best qualified. And that’s because we—as a society—vote with our gut and not our intellect. I can’t tell you how many people I know say things like “I don’t have an opinion on that” when it comes to current political questions or events. So, if you are willfully ignorant you get what you deserve.

Now I’m going to go read up on 1580s British farming communities. At least those people were truly expected to be ignorant of political events even if they weren’t.

254 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:15am

re: #251 celticdragon

I am in awe of the effectiveness of propaganda.

Our entire economy depends on it.

255 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:23am

re: #244 Obdicut

hahaha that’s genius :D

And a Mr. Do reference!

256 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:25am

re: #222 Charles

I’m not calling her ‘dumb’ as part of a ‘strategy.’ I’m calling her dumb because she’s dumber than a blue soap dish.

Ultimately, the assertion that she’s “dumb” is unprovable in some objective sense. Saying that she’s uninformed on important issues is far more provable. I could argue that there is a kind of “intelligence” in her ability to achieve popular sense in the same sense that I could call an uneducated street kid “smart” because he can take my money in three card Monty.

257 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:25am

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

The person I spoke to yesterday about the local Dems meeting - we discussed exactly these things. Exactly. Being a freakin’ wimp and hoping people have the sense to know the difference is a recipe for disaster. Time to turn up the wattage.

258 albusteve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:44am

Like most Americans, Steven Cowan has been perplexed by Bristol Palin’s curious ability to keep advancing in TV’s “Dancing with the Stars” competition.

However, unlike other viewers, Cowan, 66, allegedly became so enraged by Palin’s success that he actually fired a shotgun round into his television, triggering a 15-hour standoff with Wisconsin cops.

are you more like this man than not?….is your PDS under control?

[Link: bighollywood.breitbart.com…]

259 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:18:59am

re: #246 celticdragon

You saw just how female GOP candidates were out to mock the masculinity of their opponents (no matter Dem or GOP primary types)

Going after Palin directly is not going to fly unless it is a woman doing it. A male candidate would have to be willing to kamikazi out of the race completely to do damage to her…and even then it may still backfire and just make her untouchable. The problem with candidates who are nothing but culture war grievance hacks is that when you attack anything about their lack of substance or knowledge…you also attack all the supporters who identify personally with everything about the candidate.

And yet, America must find a way to diminish the influence of the stupid, self righteous, uneducated and slightly insane, base who resents all the many people who are smarter and better educated.

The sane people really need to realize that this is a culture war between the educated and the not educated. There are plenty of educated GOP types who stand to profit working for the other side and stirring it all up. There is either going to be a strong and cohesive backlash from the educated classes, that is framed to communicate to the uneducated, or we will see a Palin Presidency.

260 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:19:36am

re: #248 Talking Point Detective

Ok, I get that. But seriously, do you really think that anyone who would vote for Palin is “stupid?”

I used to work in construction. I met a lot of racists that could figure out complicated construction problems very quickly. There are different forms of “intelligence,” and I’d question anyone who categorizes any given person’s intelligence on the basis of a limited context.

Critical thinking skills. You can be brilliant at mechanical aptitude and have no critical thinking skills.

261 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:20:18am

re: #230 publicityStunted

Were you one of those people who thought Kerry should just ignore the Swift Boat attack ads?

Not at all. I’m, in no way, saying that anyone should ignore frighting frauds.

If you think that was what I’m saying, either you’re not reading me closely enough or I need to do a better job of getting my point across.

262 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:21:10am

re: #256 Talking Point Detective

Your bizarre attachment to whether or not things are objectively provable, is, well, bizarre.

If you’re going to define ‘ability to be popular’ as a definition of intelligence, then sure, she’s ‘intelligent’.

But by the standards of understanding scientific concepts, she’s dumb.

I don’t get why it’s a big deal to you if people call her dumb.

263 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:21:13am

re: #258 albusteve

Like most Americans, Steven Cowan has been perplexed by Bristol Palin’s curious ability to keep advancing in TV’s “Dancing with the Stars” competition.

However, unlike other viewers, Cowan, 66, allegedly became so enraged by Palin’s success that he actually fired a shotgun round into his television, triggering a 15-hour standoff with Wisconsin cops.

are you more like this man than not?…is your PDS under control?

[Link: bighollywood.breitbart.com…]

“When accosted, he raised his remote control to his temple and changed his mind.”

264 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:21:26am

Coming in 2012 - The Dumbest Presidential Candidate Ever

i swear to god, i’m beginning to think that there has been some widespread outbreak of brain damage in this country that i haven’t managed to read about in the news

265 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:21:57am

re: #246 celticdragon

You saw just how female GOP candidates were out to mock the masculinity of their opponents (no matter Dem or GOP primary types)

Going after Palin directly is not going to fly unless it is a woman doing it. A male candidate would have to be willing to kamikazi out of the race completely to do damage to her…and even then it may still backfire and just make her untouchable. The problem with candidates who are nothing but culture war grievance hacks is that when you attack anything about their lack of substance or knowledge…you also attack all the supporters who identify personally with everything about the candidate.

It almost makes you want to bring back voting tests doesn’t it? Require people to pass a basic civics exam before they can vote?

266 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:22:12am

re: #232 Decatur Deb

Saying the electorate is stupid is the negation of the basic democratic and Democratic assumption. They’re not stupid, but they have been masterfully lied-to.

Excellent point.

The “liberal” ideology is based on the assumption that people are intelligent, whereas “conservative” ideology is based on the assumption that people won’t make intelligent decisions on their own and therefore need to be told what to do by authorities (contrary to the myth that conservative libertarians believe).

267 Slap  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:23:01am

re: #245 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I did say at some point. I guarantee that at some point, around the movies “Another stakeout”, “The Flintstones” or “Exit to Eden”, some one considered it.

Re: “Exit to Eden” : I’m fond of the novel, I consider it to be a quite magnificent example of an adult-level erotic novel — but the movie was such an atrocious bastardization, I’m surprised Anne Rice didn’t sue.

But that’s not important right now.

I believe that the (potentially perceived) attractiveness of O’Donnell in that particular film is due to what one could call “collateral attraction”. I say this because, when asked about whether it’s worth seeing, I always respond with “That depends on whether or not the phrase ‘DANA DELANY NAKED’ is enough recommendation for a film”.

For the record, I personally believe that yes, it’s sufficient.

268 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:23:02am

re: #264 engineer dog

Coming in 2012 - The Dumbest Presidential Candidate Ever

i swear to god, i’m beginning to think that there has been some widespread outbreak of brain damage in this country that i haven’t managed to read about in the news

Read “Confederates In The Attic” and repeat as necessary.

269 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:23:03am

re: #236 WindUpBird

Have you heard the awesome news? The End of the World is almost here!!!

Hmmm…. why is it so AWESOME? I guess they can’t wait for God to beam them up to his intergalactic spaceship. Leaving out the gays (I read their website) and other undesirables. Ugh.

It really must suck to be them. When the only way to solve your problems is for the whole world to be annihilated and then you get sucked up to heaven for being extra special… or extra straight, whatever.

270 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:23:09am

re: #256 Talking Point Detective

Ultimately, the assertion that she’s “dumb” is unprovable in some objective sense.

I disagree. There are a huge number of data points proving the hypothesis that Sarah Palin has the mental power of a soap dish. Search LGF for ‘Palin’.

271 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:23:23am

re: #264 engineer dog

Coming in 2012 - The Dumbest Presidential Candidate Ever

i swear to god, i’m beginning to think that there has been some widespread outbreak of brain damage in this country that i haven’t managed to read about in the news

It’s the fluoride in the water. Dr. Strangelove was prophetic.

Howdy y’all.

272 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:23:24am

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

Yuppers.

273 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:24:22am

re: #265 Conservative Moonbat

It almost makes you want to bring back voting tests doesn’t it? Require people to pass a basic civics exam before they can vote?

Yeah, I know. If it were not for the racist history of them(How many bubbles in a bar of soap?), I would be tempted.

274 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:24:50am

re: #154 negativ

How do you make it to 10th grade (and to motherhood as well, apparently) with absolutely zero reading comprehension ability?

A Brave New World controversy

Shame on the administrators of Nathan Hale high school too for caving to this profoundly ignorant censorship. What kind of example has their craven surrender set for their students? That ignorance and half-truths are a perfectly legitimate means of exercising power over others?
While they’re cringing, the administrators may as well ban every book about World War 2 that accurately portrays the racism and bigotry of the Nazis. They can change the name of the school too. Glorifying an old white guy who was lawfully hanged? Oh, think of the children!

275 reine.de.tout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:24:56am

re: #265 Conservative Moonbat

It almost makes you want to bring back voting tests doesn’t it? Require people to pass a basic civics exam before they can vote?

Voting tests would be just great as long as the only people failing them are the people you don’t want voting.
Not a good idea, not even sarcastically.

276 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:25:23am

re: #235 marjoriemoon

I don’t think anyone flat out calls her an idiot. Not in the media. I’m just some poor cyber-shlub with a big mouth so I can call her whatever I please.

When they finish raking her over the coals for her ridiculous remarks and what she stands for, she comes out looking like an idiot - but that’s a lot more words to type.

Just like Charles mines blog comment threads to confirm his analysis of what’s happening to the GOP, so do Republicans mine “liberal” websites. They use that strategy to great effect. Have you never watched Fox?

It isn’t only a few folks on this blog who call her an idiot. It’s a lot of people on this blog multiplied by a lot of blogs.

But beyond calling her an idiot, when a lot of people on a lot of blogs call anyone who would consider voting for her an idiot, it becomes a de facto electoral strategy.

277 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:25:38am

re: #270 Charles

I disagree. There are a huge number of data points proving the hypothesis that Sarah Palin has the mental power of a soap dish. Search LGF for ‘Palin’.

Brushing my teeth will never be the same again!

278 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:25:50am

re: #259 LudwigVanQuixote

And yet, America must find a way to diminish the influence of the stupid, self righteous, uneducated and slightly insane, base who resents all the many people who are smarter and better educated.

The sane people really need to realize that this is a culture war between the educated and the not educated. There are plenty of educated GOP types who stand to profit working for the other side and stirring it all up. There is either going to be a strong and cohesive backlash from the educated classes, that is framed to communicate to the uneducated, or we will see a Palin Presidency.

My gf was telling me the other day about a study she’d read showing that the more you try and prove someone wrong using empirical data, the more entrenched they become in their own false beliefs. You just can’t win.

279 reine.de.tout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:25:55am

re: #256 Talking Point Detective

Ultimately, the assertion that she’s “dumb” is unprovable in some objective sense. Saying that she’s uninformed on important issues is far more provable. I could argue that there is a kind of “intelligence” in her ability to achieve popular sense in the same sense that I could call an uneducated street kid “smart” because he can take my money in three card Monty.

She opens her mouth, she speaks.
Proof.

280 Stanley Sea  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:26:02am

re: #270 Charles

I disagree. There are a huge number of data points proving the hypothesis that Sarah Palin has the mental power of a soap dish. Search LGF for ‘Palin’.

The earth….IONS ago!

281 CarleeCork  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:26:06am

re: #223 Talking Point Detective

How much of a “cowboy” was Reagan, really? How much of a “down-home Texan” was Bush. These people are professional actors supported by very highly-paid handlers. Palin is pretty damn good at putting on her act. I’m not sure how many people, to whom the “jus’ plain folks” character appeals, are going to take her down because of her shooting technique.


On the nose.

282 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:26:20am

re: #276 Talking Point Detective

Just like Charles mines blog comment threads to confirm his analysis of what’s happening to the GOP …

Really? When was the last time I did that?

283 JRCMYP  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:26:22am

re: #258 albusteve

Like most Americans, Steven Cowan has been perplexed by Bristol Palin’s curious ability to keep advancing in TV’s “Dancing with the Stars” competition.

However, unlike other viewers, Cowan, 66, allegedly became so enraged by Palin’s success that he actually fired a shotgun round into his television, triggering a 15-hour standoff with Wisconsin cops.

are you more like this man than not?…is your PDS under control?

[Link: bighollywood.breitbart.com…]

Thankfully I don’t own a gun.

284 albusteve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:26:30am

re: #264 engineer dog

Coming in 2012 - The Dumbest Presidential Candidate Ever

i swear to god, i’m beginning to think that there has been some widespread outbreak of brain damage in this country that i haven’t managed to read about in the news

yup, flouride

285 Stanley Sea  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:27:47am

o_0

286 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:28:35am

re: #270 Charles

I disagree. There are a huge number of data points proving supporting the hypothesis that Sarah Palin has the mental power of a soap dish. Search LGF for ‘Palin’.

We don’t prove them (there is always another possible interpretation of data…). We just throw enough supporting data out there in a convincing model to make opposing the hypothesis look silly and Quixotic.

IT looks pretty convincing to most thinking folks that Palin should be selling bullshit on QVC at three in the morning.

287 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:29:11am

The defense for the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping: God ‘delivered’ Smart to me

288 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:29:46am

re: #14 Obdicut

If she runs, it’s going to be an absolutely brutal primary season.

I wish Condi would run. Highly educated. Musician. She has seen Russia, speaks Russian fluently, great international CV. She just has the Bush baggage to hold her back. Frankly the Politics of her running against Obama could be very good for the nation. Alas not gonna happen.

289 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:30:00am

re: #276 Talking Point Detective

But beyond calling her an idiot, when a lot of people on a lot of blogs call anyone who would consider voting for her an idiot, it becomes a de facto electoral strategy.

This would be your assertion that you need to prove, not something that’s actually obvious.

I don’t think a lot of people calling her an idiot is an electoral strategy. I think it’s a lot of people calling her an idiot.

290 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:30:18am

re: #286 celticdragon

IT looks pretty convincing to most thinking folks that Palin should be selling bullshit on QVC at three in the morning.

It’d be much better than the bullshit she’s peddling in primetime news.

291 albusteve  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:30:36am

re: #283 JRCMYP

Thankfully I don’t own a gun.

I do, but I have a reasonable relationship with my TV

292 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:30:59am

re: #287 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The defense for the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping: God ‘delivered’ Smart to me

Whatever God does, the state will deliver this freak to prison.

293 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:31:19am

re: #286 celticdragon

re: #290 MrSilverDragon

Two dragons. That is all.

294 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:32:06am

re: #260 WindUpBird

Critical thinking skills. You can be brilliant at mechanical aptitude and have no critical thinking skills.

Not an accurate description of what I was describing. Those folks, racist and extremist right wing as they might be, had excellent critical thinking skills in a given context.

The transferability of critical thinking skills across different contexts is highly debatable. Have you never met a brilliant programmer who couldn’t manage to put in a matched-pair of socks, sweet-talk a member of the opposite sex?

Google multiple intelligences/Howard Gardner.

295 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:32:15am

re: #290 MrSilverDragon

It’d be much better than the bullshit she’s peddling in primetime news.

SP is bright enough to fool the 25% or so who really want to be fooled. That might get her the nomination, won’t take her all the way.

296 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:32:31am

re: #278 Conservative Moonbat

My gf was telling me the other day about a study she’d read showing that the more you try and prove someone wrong using empirical data, the more entrenched they become in their own false beliefs. You just can’t win.

Yes. Being confronted with actual provable data that invalidates a deeply held belief actually causes most people to automatically disregard the data no matter how impeccable the provenance.

Lotsa studies confirm that one.

We listen to the things that confirm our biases and tune out everything else.

297 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:33:42am

re: #276 Talking Point Detective

Just like Charles mines blog comment threads to confirm his analysis of what’s happening to the GOP, so do Republicans mine “liberal” websites. They use that strategy to great effect. Have you never watched Fox?

It isn’t only a few folks on this blog who call her an idiot. It’s a lot of people on this blog multiplied by a lot of blogs.

But beyond calling her an idiot, when a lot of people on a lot of blogs call anyone who would consider voting for her an idiot, it becomes a de facto electoral strategy.

I think you’re picking at the term, but she’s an idiot, nevertheless, whether they pick lots of other words to say that or not.

298 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:33:42am

re: #162 marjoriemoon

I’m confused about your comment. She has a problem with reading comprehension?

She has a basic problem that stems from lack of basic education: the ability to discern fiction, science fiction, speculative fiction, science textbooks, history textbook, philosophical textbooks and religious scriptures.

She did not cop on that the book in itself is a criticism of the very points of view about “savages”, she has managed to find something to be upset and indignant about without being able to see the context in which it is presented.

it is scary that this is taken seriously.

299 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:33:54am

re: #289 Obdicut

This would be your assertion that you need to prove, not something that’s actually obvious.

I don’t think a lot of people calling her an idiot is an electoral strategy. I think it’s a lot of people calling her an idiot.

Truth. I am not a Dem strategist but I do regard call Palin as a dangerous charlatan, a mountebank, and a fraud.

300 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:01am

re: #276 Talking Point Detective

Just like Charles mines blog comment threads to confirm his analysis of what’s happening to the GOP …

So I was saying something about sock and troll dog whistle patterns once…

301 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:07am

re: #287 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The defense for the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping: God ‘delivered’ Smart to me

That’s just something he said in a police interview. He’s pleading insanity.

302 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:08am

re: #262 Obdicut

Your bizarre attachment to whether or not things are objectively provable, is, well, bizarre.

If you’re going to define ‘ability to be popular’ as a definition of intelligence, then sure, she’s ‘intelligent’.

But by the standards of understanding scientific concepts, she’s dumb.

I don’t get why it’s a big deal to you if people call her dumb.


Lot of dumb rock musicians out there who can play a badass guitar. Good at sweep arpeggios and hybrid picking! Bad at being smart :D

303 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:10am

even though palin polls really badly at this point, and there is even solid evidence of republican activity to nip her in the bud, i am still not so sanguine that palin would be easy to beat. for one thing, refer to h. l. menken’s rule:

“nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the american public”

yes, i’m very afraid that, as with ronald reagan, we will continue to make fun of idiotic things she says, and her poll numbers will continue to look abysmal - until she gets nominated and we get to the general election

be prepared for the idiotocracy

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:10am

re: #248 Talking Point Detective

Ok, I get that. But seriously, do you really think that anyone who would vote for Palin is “stupid?”

I used to work in construction. I met a lot of racists that could figure out complicated construction problems very quickly. There are different forms of “intelligence,” and I’d question anyone who categorizes any given person’s intelligence on the basis of a limited context.

Really? I don’t care. I am not interested in abstract conversations about forms of intelligence. My own has been sufficiently insulted by Sarah Palin already. So if that’s your interest, find another gal.

305 reine.de.tout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:19am

Dems keep Pelosi

306 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:34am

re: #293 theheat

re: #290 MrSilverDragon

Two dragons. That is all.

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for ye are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

307 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:34:43am

re: #279 reine.de.tout

She opens her mouth, she speaks.
Proof.

See, that’s what I’m talking about! Short, sweet and to the point!

308 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:35:01am

re: #262 Obdicut

Your bizarre attachment to whether or not things are objectively provable, is, well, bizarre.

Ok, I’m officially done with responding to your personal attacks. You’ve done this on every thread when you’ve responded to me.

It’s your prerogative to think that I’m “bizarre,” “cowardly,” make “incredibly dumb arguments” and that I “demand” that you do something. If you write a comment directed towards me because you want a response, then you’ll have to take a different approach.

309 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:35:25am

re: #294 Talking Point Detective

Not an accurate description of what I was describing. Those folks, racist and extremist right wing as they might be, had excellent critical thinking skills in a given context.

The transferability of critical thinking skills across different contexts is highly debatable. Have you never met a brilliant programmer who couldn’t manage to put in a matched-pair of socks, sweet-talk a member of the opposite sex?

Google multiple intelligences/Howard Gardner.

hahah uh no they don’t, actually :) Not at all. If you are extremist and racist, then you’re by definition lacking critical thinking skills.

310 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:35:40am

re: #288 Rightwingconspirator

I wish Condi would run. Highly educated. Musician. She has seen Russia, speaks Russian fluently, great international CV. She just has the Bush baggage to hold her back. Frankly the Politics of her running against Obama could be very good for the nation. Alas not gonna happen.

Had advance warning of 9/11 and did nothing.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:35:48am

re: #266 Talking Point Detective

Excellent point.

The “liberal” ideology is based on the assumption that people are intelligent, whereas “conservative” ideology is based on the assumption that people won’t make intelligent decisions on their own and therefore need to be told what to do by authorities (contrary to the myth that conservative libertarians believe).

Dude, no offense, but you’re raising some sort of ‘dar with me.

312 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:36:09am

re: #293 theheat

re: #290 MrSilverDragon

Two dragons. That is all.

With the right amount of chemicals in your brain, there can be hundreds more!

(This is not an endorsement)

313 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:36:23am

re: #303 engineer dog

even though palin polls really badly at this point, and there is even solid evidence of republican activity to nip her in the bud, i am still not so sanguine that palin would be easy to beat. for one thing, refer to h. l. menken’s rule:

“nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the american public”

yes, i’m very afraid that, as with ronald reagan, we will continue to make fun of idiotic things she says, and her poll numbers will continue to look abysmal - until she gets nominated and we get to the general election

be prepared for the idiotocracy

Portland will point and laugh :D

314 Ming  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:37:20am

What worries me even more is that Palin will be the Vice Presidential candidate for the Republicans in 2012. She just might get into the Vice Presidency that way. At that point, American will be the laughingstock of much of the rest of the world: yes, mental illness is no barrier to high office.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:37:22am

re: #289 Obdicut

This would be your assertion that you need to prove, not something that’s actually obvious.

I don’t think a lot of people calling her an idiot is an electoral strategy. I think it’s a lot of people calling her an idiot.

But if it’s a ‘strategy’, you can argue against it, without actually coming out and saying that Sarah isn’t an idiot.

316 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:37:54am

re: #282 Charles

Really? When was the last time I did that?

I’m confused. I’ve seen multiple posts where you put up the disgusting comments of GOPers from blogs like Hotair.

How is that different than what I described?

317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:37:56am

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

Dude, no offense, but you’re raising some sort of ‘dar with me.

Let’s see what magic 8-ball says

318 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:38:23am

re: #317 WindUpBird

Let’s see what magic 8-ball says

Outlook not so good.

319 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:38:23am

re: #306 celticdragon

Good one. That slays me ;-)

320 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:38:33am

Pretty Good for Government Work

DEAR Uncle Sam,

My mother told me to send thank-you notes promptly. I’ve been remiss.

Let me remind you why I’m writing. Just over two years ago, in September 2008, our country faced an economic meltdown. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the pillars that supported our mortgage system, had been forced into conservatorship. Several of our largest commercial banks were teetering. One of Wall Street’s giant investment banks had gone bankrupt, and the remaining three were poised to follow. A.I.G., the world’s most famous insurer, was at death’s door.

Many of our largest industrial companies, dependent on commercial paper financing that had disappeared, were weeks away from exhausting their cash resources. Indeed, all of corporate America’s dominoes were lined up, ready to topple at lightning speed. My own company, Berkshire Hathaway, might have been the last to fall, but that distinction provided little solace.

…

That was a mass delusion, reinforced by rapidly rising prices that discredited the few skeptics who warned of trouble. Delusions, whether about tulips or Internet stocks, produce bubbles. And when bubbles pop, they can generate waves of trouble that hit shores far from their origin. This bubble was a doozy and its pop was felt around the world.

So, again, Uncle Sam, thanks to you and your aides. Often you are wasteful, and sometimes you are bullying. On occasion, you are downright maddening. But in this extraordinary emergency, you came through — and the world would look far different now if you had not.

Your grateful nephew,

Warren

321 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:38:41am

re: #294 Talking Point Detective

Speaking of objectively proving assertions, when was the last time I “mined blog comments to confirm my analysis of what’s happening in the GOP?”

Should be easy for you to prove that I “mined blog comments,” specifically for that purpose, since you’re an expert in critical thinking.

322 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:38:51am

I smell something…

323 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:39:09am

re: #310 Conservative Moonbat
That’s Bush baggage. And unfair.
There was advance warning of some kind every day in the PDB’s. Did nothing? Sorry, but doing nothing excludes the CIA, FBI and NSA. Just not true as stated.

324 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:39:37am

re: #322 Varek Raith

I smell something…

Something gamey

325 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:39:38am

re: #316 Talking Point Detective

I’m confused.

I can tell.

I’ve seen multiple posts where you put up the disgusting comments of GOPers from blogs like Hotair.

How is that different than what I described?

Please cite the post where I used those comments to “confirm my analysis of the GOP.”

326 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:40:09am

re: #324 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Something gamey

Something ripe.

327 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:40:12am

re: #310 Conservative Moonbat

Had advance warning of 9/11 and did nothing.

That had warning. Of something. Rather vague.
Actionable?
Nope.

328 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:40:29am

When in doubt Google then ask a bookie…

Even though he has been in office for just over a year, Barack Obama’s long-term future as the President of the United States is already a topic of great debate. While Obama’s approval ratings have dipped over his first 12 months in office, he is still in the desirable position of incumbent heading into 2012. Since 1936, only three incumbents (Gerald Ford-1976, Jimmy Carter-1980 and George H.W. Bush-1992) have lost in a re-election race as its party’s nominee. In the 2008 election, Obama won 365 electoral votes while capturing 53 percent of the overall vote.

Odds To be Elected President in 2012:

Obama is a -125 favorite (odds from sportsbook.com) among all possible candidates to win the 2012 race. After losing in 2008 as a vice-presidential candidate on the Republican ticket, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is the next choice at +1000. Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney is next at +1200. He failed to capture the Republican nomination in 2008. Among the group of contenders at +1500 are Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Mike Huckabee and Rob Portman.


Party Elected President in 2012:

In terms of which political party will be elected, the Democratic Party is favored at -160 while the Republicans are at +120. Any other political party is at +3000 although no third party has won a presidential election since 1848. Since 1940, each of the two major parties has won nine presidential elections. It has been difficult for either party to maintain a long run in the White House. Since 1952, there has been only one occasion when a single party has held the presidency for longer than eight years. This occurred from 1980-1992 when the Republicans won three straight elections.


Democratic Party 2012 Nominee

As expected, Obama is the huge favorite in this category at -700. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (+600) and Vice-President Biden (+800) are the other options in this category. Based on recent history, it would be an upset for anyone other than Obama to represent the Democratic Party in 2012. Since 1952, only one incumbent has failed to seek re-election (Lyndon Johnson-1968). While Biden is next in line to be president, only three presidents have died in office over the last 100 years.


Republican 2012 Nominee

Sarah Palin is the slight favorite in this category at +350 over Romney at +400. Mike Huckabee, the former Governor of Arkansas, is next on the list at +500 followed by Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal at +600. Some of the other notable betting options are former New York City Mayor Rudolph Guiliani (+1500), former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (+1500) and 2008 Republican nominee John McCain (+2000). There is some recent history that could point to Palin winning the nomination. It isn’t too uncommon for a candidate to lose a race as a vice-presidential nominee before eventually becoming the presidential nominee for a party. Walter Mondale was the Democratic Party’s nominee in 1984 after losing as a vice-president in 1980 while Robert Dole became the Republican nominee in 1996 after losing as Gerald Ford’s vice-president in 1976.

329 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:40:42am

re: #298 ralphieboy

She has a basic problem that stems from lack of basic education: the ability to discern fiction, science fiction, speculative fiction, science textbooks, history textbook, philosophical textbooks and religious scriptures.

She did not cop on that the book in itself is a criticism of the very points of view about “savages”, she has managed to find something to be upset and indignant about without being able to see the context in which it is presented.

it is scary that this is taken seriously.

Well I never read the book, but what came to my mind is Oliver Twist and the depiction of Fagin the Jew. I will tell you that hands-down, the movie with Ron Moody is at the top of my favorite lists, where Fagin is not depicted as a Jew at all, but has some, shall we say “ethic” stylings which come across as endearing as opposed to lecherous. However, if my child were given the book to read in school, I might object (I don’t know as it never actually came up). In fact, Dickens apologized for insulting Jews after he wrote it.

330 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:41:13am

re: #327 Varek Raith

That had warning. Of something. Rather vague.
Actionable?
Nope.

That should be They.

331 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:41:24am

BEHIND THE SCENES: Geraldo Rivera’s Flip Flop on 9/11

Youtube Video

Not much interesting here except at 10:00 the truthers spent 5-10 minutes with Mike Huckabee who seemed receptive to their ideas.
Keep up the good work, Fox.

332 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:41:29am

I am pondering what Palin has up her sleeve, she knows she cannot win the Presidency, but she can bring enough voters with her as a bloc to clinch the VP spot.

333 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:41:48am

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

By the way and for the record, the whole multiple intelligence thing really doesn’t matter one bit to the presidency. The president requires very specific types of intelligence to do the job.

Much like the person with a high “EQ” and is a wonderful gardener, should not be doing heart surgery if they don’t have the intelligence to be a surgeon, the Presidency selects and demand certain skills.

Even bringing such crap up is utterly stupid to begin with.

The President needs to understand foreign policy, history and economics for obvious reasons.

Palin can not find most countries on a map, has no concept of history (and likes to rewrite her own as her handler’s dictate) and could not balance her own checkbook, let alone look into economic policy sensibly.

In an increasingly technical world where military, economic, scientific and national security interests depend on ever more technical skill, Palin has shown herself to be not just stupid, but stupid enough that the average American notices.

On top of that, what of the vaunted EQ? Palin has a nasty reputation as a vindictive and petty bitch.

We haven’t even gotten to her delusional beliefs or ID crap or science denial yet.

By any measure of competence as the president, she is a total full on retard.

334 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:43:04am

re: #322 Varek Raith

I smell something…

I had beans for lunch… I’m sorry.

335 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:43:26am

re: #334 marjoriemoon

I had beans for lunch… I’m sorry.

And you thought only men could be disgusting.

336 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:43:48am

re: #217 Talking Point Detective

What I find hard to believe is that anyone would even question that. Many people identify with her. Calling her stupid doesn’t exactly look like a winning strategy to me. Saying that you have to be “stupid” to vote for her seems even more obviously a losing strategy.

Rush Limbaugh in particular has been calling anyone who wasn’t a conservative Republican (including slightly less-conservative Republicans) stupid for 20+ years, and he’s done okay.

337 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:44:08am

re: #332 ralphieboy

I am pondering what Palin has up her sleeve, she knows she cannot win the Presidency, but she can bring enough voters with her as a bloc to clinch the VP spot.

I don’t think she will go that way again. She doesn’t play well with others and there is no way at all she would go with Romney.

Her base wouldn’t go with it either. My own folks are her base when it comes down to that, and they cannot stand Mormons. The anti Mormon thing was pretty loud last time around.

338 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:44:27am

re: #316 Talking Point Detective

It is completely different than what you described. Interesting choice in semantics troll.

And BTW we are now at 100% certainty.

339 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:45:36am

re: #333 LudwigVanQuixote

On top of that, what of the vaunted EQ? Palin has a nasty reputation as a vindictive and petty bitch.

Boldened for emphasis.

There is a reason why so much of the GOP party structure in Alaska loathes her.

340 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:45:54am

re: #325 Charles

I can tell.

Please cite the post where I used those comments to “confirm my analysis of the GOP.”


If that’s a mischaracterization, then I apologize.

I’ve seen your arguments about why you don’t identify with the the Tea Party, or GOP, because of their extremism, and I’ve seen your posts where you post comments from rightwing blogs as evidence of that extremism.

Seriously, I’m trying to figure out your point on why what I said is different than what you’ve done.

In now way did I make that comment as a negative statement. I think that your lists of disgusting comments have, in fact, been a useful characterization of how the GOP has been catering to extremists.

341 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:46:10am

re: #329 marjoriemoon


Brave new World is a dystopian view of the future, in which the biologially-engineered masses are kept in place by drugs, sex and cheap entertainment, a small, non-genetically engineered ruling elite enjoys priveleges and comforts, and those outside the system (the “savages”) live on reservations.

The term “savages” is used by the dystopians themselves, it cannot be maintained from any reading of the book that the author presents them as such or that he sympathizes with the viewpoint of the dystopan masters.

like I said, just a sad, sad case of a student’s basic inability to read a text and understand what it is about.

342 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:46:53am

re: #337 celticdragon

I don’t think she will go that way again. She doesn’t play well with others and there is no way at all she would go with Romney.

Make no mistake, her instinct for survival means Princess will play nice with anyone if Princess gets what Princess wants. She’s that counterfeit.

343 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:47:14am

re: #308 Talking Point Detective

Well, you can add to a bizarre attachment to whether things are objectively provable that you’re massively thin-skinned.

Your point about Palin is silly one. If you’re going to define anyone who’s successful as ‘intelligent’ on the basis of their success, you’re rather robbing the word of any value at all. There are certainly different forms of intelligence, and intelligence is notoriously hard to measure.

But Palin not only is uninformed, she takes pride and revels in her uninformed-ness, in her ignorant comments. That is a very special, and very dangerous, sort of dumb.

You are offering two arguments; one that calling her dumb is wrong since she’s actually smart in some sense since she’s popular, and another that calling her dumb is a strategic mistake. The first is a very trivial point that endorses a position I personally dislike a lot, and the second is an irrelevant point since you’re not talking to Democratic strategists and I completely reject your bizarre idea that enough people saying Palin is dumb amounts to a campaign strategy.

Try to handle criticism by improving your argument, rather than whining.

344 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:47:19am

re: #336 negativ

Rush Limbaugh in particular has been calling anyone who wasn’t a conservative Republican (including slightly less-conservative Republicans) stupid for 20+ years, and he’s done okay.

I think that the GOP is able to use such strategies much more effectively than Dems.

345 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:47:41am

re: #316 Talking Point Detective

I’m confused. I’ve seen multiple posts where you put up the disgusting comments of GOPers from blogs like Hotair.

How is that different than what I described?

“mining” right wing blogs? All I have to do is open my broswer and randomly click on a right wing blog, and I see fully, completely developmentally disabled imbeciles losing their walnuts all over the comment section. if you consider scooping a cup of water out of a river to be “mining”, because that’s how easy it is to find these people. because they’re everywhere on the right wing.

Sorry dude. Go back to your kooky buddies at whatever kook site you actually hang out at

346 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:49:33am

re: #345 WindUpBird

“mining” right wing blogs? All I have to do is open my broswer and randomly click on a right wing blog, and I see fully, completely developmentally disabled imbeciles losing their walnuts all over the comment section. if you consider scooping a cup of water out of a river to be “mining”, because that’s how easy it is to find these people. because they’re everywhere on the right wing.

Sorry dude. Go back to your kooky buddies at whatever kook site you actually hang out at

Seriously.
Just read the comments at FoxNation.

347 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:49:40am

What newspapers do you read?

ALL OF ‘EM! I’M A MORON

348 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:49:54am

re: #308 Talking Point Detective

Actually, Obdi has been more than gracious with you and gave you quite the benefit of the doubt. You should be careful about lashing out at someone who was much kinder to you than others are going to be.

349 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:50:40am

re: #342 theheat

Make no mistake, her instinct for survival means Princess will play nice with anyone if Princess gets what Princess wants. She’s that counterfeit.

More of an instinct for accumulating power and telling good lies. I still don’t see her taking second place again…especially after being pumped full of bullshit like this...

350 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:51:27am

re: #343 Obdicut

Respectfully, he is too stupid to see your points.

Also respectfully, as per the other thread, I really do respect you and I really feel we had a failure to communicate. I certainly have no beef.

351 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:51:33am

re: #341 ralphieboy

Brave new World is a dystopian view of the future, in which the biologially-engineered masses are kept in place by drugs, sex and cheap entertainment, a small, non-genetically engineered ruling elite enjoys priveleges and comforts, and those outside the system (the “savages”) live on reservations.

The term “savages” is used by the dystopians themselves, it cannot be maintained from any reading of the book that the author presents them as such or that he sympathizes with the viewpoint of the dystopan masters.

like I said, just a sad, sad case of a student’s basic inability to read a text and understand what it is about.

So “savages” in the context of the book aren’t necessarily Native American, but the unwashed masses as it were?

352 JeffFX  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:51:47am

re: #345 WindUpBird

“mining” right wing blogs? All I have to do is open my broswer and randomly click on a right wing blog, and I see fully, completely developmentally disabled imbeciles losing their walnuts all over the comment section. if you consider scooping a cup of water out of a river to be “mining”, because that’s how easy it is to find these people. because they’re everywhere on the right wing.

Sorry dude. Go back to your kooky buddies at whatever kook site you actually hang out at

Even skipping the right-wing blogs, any news site that doesn’t delete offensive comments is overflowing with off-their-meds wingnuts. Batshit insane right-wing extremists can be found everywhere there’s anonymous speech.

353 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:52:02am

re: #347 WindUpBird

What newspapers do you read?

ALL OF ‘EM! I’M A MORON

Define moron, please. And use 200 posts to do it so I understand you clearly.

354 celticdragon  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:53:25am

re: #347 WindUpBird

What newspapers do you read?

ALL OF ‘EM! I’M A MORONMORAN!

355 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:54:37am

re: #345 WindUpBird

“mining” right wing blogs? All I have to do is open my broswer and randomly click on a right wing blog, and I see fully, completely developmentally disabled imbeciles losing their walnuts all over the comment section. if you consider scooping a cup of water out of a river to be “mining”, because that’s how easy it is to find these people. because they’re everywhere on the right wing.

Sorry dude. Go back to your kooky buddies at whatever kook site you actually hang out at

If “mining” wasn’t the right term, then I’m happy to apologize.


I have to say, though, the conviction of some folks here that I have some sort of hidden right-wing agenda is really amusing.

356 theheat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:54:39am

re: #349 celticdragon

We shall see. But I’m erring on the side she’ll contort herself in whatever thing she needs to be, even if it’s second fiddle. Then again, she may get the nod, and basically have the GOP pick who the VP will be, like McCain. In such case, she’ll be a perfect Princess and endure whatever it takes, no matter who she’s paired with.

357 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:55:19am

re: #351 marjoriemoon

So “savages” in the context of the book aren’t necessarily Native American, but the unwashed masses as it were?

In this case, they are living in the Southwest Desert, near the Grand Canyon Dam power station…

The point is, there is no intelligent reading of the book that can lead one to see this as being critical of Native Americans or their culture, it is much more a condemnation of a system that would put them on “savage reservations” like that.

358 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:56:39am

re: #336 negativ

Rush Limbaugh in particular has been calling anyone who wasn’t a conservative Republican (including slightly less-conservative Republicans) stupid for 20+ years, and he’s done okay.

yeah, but rush is kept locked up in his den where other boys won’t tease him by asking questions about those annoying facts n stuff

359 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:59:59am

re: #4 PT Barnum

The two most terrifying words ever…President Palin

Whenever I hear those words I think of this scene from The Dead Zone.

Youtube Video
360 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:02:24pm

Sarah knows that she can command anything up to 30% of the electorate - that gives her an incredible bargaining power with the GOp who need that 30% to prevail over the Democrats.

But how much of the moderate vote do they stand to lose by taking her on board? That is exactly what we saw with the midterm elections, as well as the run-off election in upstate New York.

361 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:04:00pm

re: #18 Varek Raith

Where’s a freaking Coliseum when we need one?!
/

The whole point of being a retarius is to get the guy in the net.

(Obscure hockey joke)

362 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:09:57pm

re: #357 ralphieboy

In this case, they are living in the Southwest Desert, near the Grand Canyon Dam power station…

The point is, there is no intelligent reading of the book that can lead one to see this as being critical of Native Americans or their culture, it is much more a condemnation of a system that would put them on “savage reservations” like that.

Ahh ok. I’m with ya.

363 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:18:08pm

re: #362 marjoriemoon

As far as I can tell, this was just a case of a student who did not want to read the book (because it was a book) and then started finding some controversy to get her out of it.

Sad thing is that our society is so dumbed down that it succeeded.

364 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:40:01pm

re: #270 Charles

I disagree. There are a huge number of data points proving the hypothesis that Sarah Palin has the mental power of a soap dish. Search LGF for ‘Palin’.

OK - I took your advice. Here’s what I found in two of your early posts on Palin:

Good Work, Leftist Attack Squads!

Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:07:04 am
According to the latest Rasmussen survey, Sarah Palin is now more popular than Barack Obama or John McCain.

Post-Palin Wrapup

Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:18:13 pm
Just a terrific speech from Sarah Palin. She didn’t miss a word. That must have struck terror into the hearts of Obama’s handlers.

In one of those threads, a poster who [paraphrasing] called Palin an idiot got all of 400+ negative ratings. Granted, that poster’s comments had some idiotic things to say about Palin’s family, but still….

At the time, I viewed Palin as a slick politician who used an effective strategy to mobilize votes from an ill-informed rightwing constituency. It was a no-brainer from the moment she stepped onto the national stage. She was, and is, the worst sort of “conservative.” Nothing in my perspective has changed.

You saw her as being popularized by “left wing attack squads.”

All credit due to your realizing your mistaken analysis based on the abundant “data points” available when she was first selected as a VP candidate - but under the circumstances, pretty ironic!

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:45:26pm

re: #355 Talking Point Detective

If “mining” wasn’t the right term, then I’m happy to apologize.

I have to say, though, the conviction of some folks here that I have some sort of hidden right-wing agenda is really amusing.

Nah, you seem to have more of a trolley primrose path agenda

366 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:49:42pm

re: #309 WindUpBird

hahah uh no they don’t, actually :) Not at all. If you are extremist and racist, then you’re by definition lacking critical thinking skills.

William Buckley was extremist (a McCarthy supporter) and racist. He also possessed pretty solid critical thinking skills. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

367 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:52:08pm

re: #364 Talking Point Detective

What advice did you take, exactly?

368 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:54:07pm

re: #365 WindUpBird

Nah, you seem to have more of a trolley primrose path agenda

Maybe my problem is that I don’t understand the definition of what a “troll,” or a “trolley primrose path agenda” mean.

I’m a life long lefty, been a left-wing activist my whole life. Came from a long line of left-wing activists. I’m an academic, and I work in an academic line focused on furthering social justice issues.

I happen to disagree in perspective with many of the commenters on this site. If that makes me a troll, or on a trolly primrose path, so be it.

369 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:54:41pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

It may not be a strategy, but it’s God’s own truth from where I’m standing, and I don’t make strategy, I just vote.

Well, you’re pretty smart. From where you stand she’s not too sharp. But from where the average voter stands, that’s another story.

Being bright carries with it a cost: it makes it hard to understand what’s so hard to understand about many things many people find hard to understand.

It is NOT obvious to the average Joe that Palin is stupid from where you sit, even though she’s bright from where he sits. And if it were obvious, it would be painful, so the average Joe will shrink from recognizing it and resent having it spelled out. And reject the whole business. And reject whoever tries to splain them it.

If the other candidate is manifestly very smart, both by demeanor AND because he/she has got results better than anybody could really have expected, then the other candidate wins in a walk no matter what.

If the other candidate seems smart going by demeanor and vocabulary, but has a sorry track record, it won’t be just dummies who wonder if the other candidate is actually all that bright, or just a good actor. Attacking the smarts of a Palin or Huckabee, as contrasted to evident manifest brilliance that somehow has not compiled any sort of win/loss record to be proud of, WILL NOT WORK.

So direct attacks on a folksy candidate’s brainpower never work when you need them to work.

370 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:57:46pm

re: #368 Talking Point Detective

It’s not your disagreement, but the manner of your disagreement, that people are taking issue with.

However strenuously you want to avoid that, it’s the truth.

For example— if you search LGF for Palin, you get this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

For some reason, you decided to go back to 2008 to tweak Charles’ nose with his previous support of Palin. Why? What relevance did it have to the current conversation? Totally unclear. It comes off as simply a juvenile way to mock Charles with a ‘hurr hurr, you were wrong about Palin, remember how you were wrong? Mr. Wrongypants’ snideness.

What was the actual point of doing that?

371 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:00:35pm

My point is that Charles is obviously a “smart” person.

He was taken in by Palin’s act like many GOPers continue to be taken in. Her being a fraud, to me, and to many, many, “leftists,” was immediately apparent.

If she is as obviously “stupid” as folks seem to think, Charles wouldn’t have supported her initially. If only “stupid” people fall for her act, then he wouldn’t have fallen for her act.

One could argue that “left wing attacks” lost their negative impact as Palin gained more exposure…. and while I think the negative impact has been lessened, I still think that calling her “stupid” is counterproductive and beside the point anyway.

Her political ideology is extremely destructive to the country. It is relatively easy to deconstruct the flaws in the ideology she promotes without passing judgement on her intelligence, personally, or on the intelligence of people respond differently to her rhetoric.

372 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:01:16pm

re: #369 lostlakehiker

I think that you think of the average joe as dramatically stupider than he is.

The GOP, and many conservative groups, have been pushing an incredible number of lies for a long time now. That people believe them is not a commentary on their intelligence. Propaganda works. It has very little to do with the intelligence of the audience.

Palin’s high unfavorable ratings among independents belies what you’re trying to claim.

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com…]

373 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:05:11pm

Charles’ long line of posts exposing Palin’s fraudulence speaks for itself.

The point of referring to his posts from 2008 was, entirely, relevant to the earlier discussion.

374 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:05:32pm

re: #371 Talking Point Detective

It’s okay, dude, you can respond to me. It won’t hurt.


If she is as obviously “stupid” as folks seem to think, Charles wouldn’t have supported her initially.

That’s a really bizarre statement. Why do you think that’s true?

If only “stupid” people fall for her act, then he wouldn’t have fallen for her act.

That’s true. I missed the part where anyone claimed only stupid people fell for her act.


One could argue that “left wing attacks” lost their negative impact as Palin gained more exposure… and while I think the negative impact has been lessened, I still think that calling her “stupid” is counterproductive and beside the point anyway.

Counterproductive to what? When I call Sarah Palin stupid for her misunderstandings of the first amendment, what harm have I done to what?

And what ‘point’ is it besides?


Her political ideology is extremely destructive to the country. It is relatively easy to deconstruct the flaws in the ideology she promotes without passing judgement on her intelligence, personally, or on the intelligence of people respond differently to her rhetoric.

You are creating a constant false dichotomy where someone calling her stupid is passing up an opportunity to deconstruct the flaws in the ideology she promotes.

If you’re so into effective tactics, then why are you still attempting to get people to stop calling her stupid, when the way you’re going about it is so obviously a complete bust? Take your own advice.

375 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:06:02pm

re: #373 Talking Point Detective

It is hilarious how you’re refusing to respond to me yet you’re responding to me, by the way. That’s classic.

376 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:06:20pm

re: #364 Talking Point Detective

Great work! You dug up two of my earliest posts about Sarah Palin, in the middle of a heated Presidential campaign.

What point is it that you’re trying to make, exactly? That when I first was exposed to Palin I didn’t immediately see through her?

Guilty.

Meanwhile, you ignored at least a hundred other posts.

And this kind of crap, by the way, is why people suspect you of being a troll who was previously registered under a different name. Are you?

377 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:10:56pm

re: #376 Charles

Great work! You dug up two of my earliest posts about Sarah Palin, in the middle of a heated Presidential campaign.

What point is it that you’re trying to make, exactly? That when I first was exposed to Palin I didn’t immediately see through her?

Guilty.

Meanwhile, you ignored about a hundred other posts.

And this kind of crap, by the way, is why people suspect you of being a troll who was previously registered under a different name. Are you?

I haven’t ignored them in the least. I’ve read them and I appreciate them. There are far too few bloggers who have done the work you’ve done, and your position as a previous darling of the extremist rightwing adds to their importance.

Again, my point is that is she’s so “stupid,” it should have been immediately apparent to you as well as to many others. Someone who is as stupid as a soap dish doesn’t fool someone like you.

378 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:14:52pm

re: #376 Charles


And this kind of crap, by the way, is why people suspect you of being a troll who was previously registered under a different name. Are you?

Nope. Never posted at LGF before a couple of weeks ago. As I explained a while back, I figured it would be useless to post here when it was a cesspool of Islamophobes and rightwing extremists. In fact, I used to “mine” this site for Islamophobic and extreme rightwing comments to post at other sites.

I’ve been very pleased to see the changes that have taken place here. I find it absolutely fascinating as a political phenomenon. I think that what you’ve done has taken a lot of courage, and I respect that.

Nothing that I’ve said should diminish that in the least.

379 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:17:27pm

re: #378 Talking Point Detective

I don’t get why you think that stupid people can’t ever fool smart people. Why do you think that?

380 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:17:48pm

In fact, interestingly, I’ve continued to link your more recent posts on other sites to provide examples of rightwing extremism.

It is incredibly ironic, IMO, that I’ve used posts from your site - posts from diametrically opposed perspectives - to make arguments supporting a leftist ideology.

381 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:19:23pm

Also - I never could register anyway when this site had a different character, and didn’t realize until recently that registration was open. When I realized that it was open, I registered.

I knew it would be interesting, and I haven’t been disappointed.

382 nhand42  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:27:43pm

re: #376 Charles


What point is it that you’re trying to make, exactly? That when I first was exposed to Palin I didn’t immediately see through her?

I think that’s exactly his point; many people are fooled and never see through her.

383 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:27:54pm

The person I supported during the election was McCain, far more than Palin. I criticized Palin for her creationist views, while taking at face value her pledge that she wouldn’t try to push it into schools — with the caveat that she would just be vice president, and couldn’t do much harm anyway.

Not exactly full-throated support.

None of that has anything to do with her intelligence or lack thereof. The more I saw of her, the clearer and more obvious her dim-wittedness became.

384 nhand42  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:29:09pm

re: #376 Charles


Guilty.

Meanwhile, you ignored at least a hundred other posts.

That’s to your credit, but you are the exception rather than the rule. Many of the party faithful are still infatuated with her.

For background, I’m an Australian who reads this site because American politics is far more entertaining than Australian politics. Within the first 5 seconds of seeing Palin in video I knew she was a nitwit. But she definitely managed to fool people I otherwise respect (i.e. you).

It’s not just the dummies who fall for Palin’s schtick. Also it’s not just the dummies who continue to support her despite the mountains of evidence that she’s an ignorant fanatical nutcase. They’ll ignore all that and vote for her anyway.

385 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:32:14pm
386 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:34:04pm

Buh-bye, troll.

387 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:36:47pm

re: #384 nhand42

Nobody is saying that it’s only idiots who fall for Palin’s schtick, though.

388 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:43:24pm

re: #383 Charles

The person I supported during the election was McCain, far more than Palin. I criticized Palin for her creationist views, while taking at face value her pledge that she wouldn’t try to push it into schools — with the caveat that she would just be vice president, and couldn’t do much harm anyway.

OK - I think that your characterization of her speech was pretty full-throated. But that’s quibbling, you were fairly quick to take on her creationist views (I could quibble a bit with that also), but that’s really beside the point. Maybe I shouldn’t have linked the first post from 2008 that I linked.

My point isn’t so much that you supported her, or the degree to which you did so.

My point is that you made the same point that you are arguing against in this thread: Extremist reaction to her on the left is counterproductive. That was the point of the second post I referred to.

Again, one could argue that it is less counterproductive now than it was then. I think that would be a reasonable argument.


None of that has anything to do with her intelligence or lack thereof. The more I saw of her, the clearer and more obvious her dim-wittedness became.

I’m less confident that she’s dim-witted. As someone who has worked with a vast variety of students, I’m reluctant to pass judgment on whose “intelligent” and who “isn’t.” I see pronouncements of someone else’s intelligence as mostly being reflective of a priori definitions of what comprises intelligence. I’ve seen too many students that I consider to be very smart judged as being unintelligent because the nature of their intelligence doesn’t meet societally-accepted, and biased, norms.

But I don’t really know. Certainly, she supports ill-founded ideologies, such as creationism, that fly in the face of established scientific fact. Does that make her “unintelligent?” IMO, that’s hard to say. But I certainly won’t rule out the possibility that she’s a dolt.

My point stands, however, that calling her “stupid” is likely to be counterproductive. People say that they don’t care about “strategy,” they’re only expressing their viewpoints - but I think that’s naive. The GOP has a very well established track-record of playing the victim of “elitists” who call the “average American” stupid. When someone of your stature does that, my argument is that it has an impact - let alone when individual bloggers do it.

And I think it is entirely unnecessary. There is plenty to take her down on without doing that. The fact is that many people identify with her. Calling her stupid, by extension, hurts the cause of “refudiating” her attack on science. If your interest is in limiting the swing of the right to an anti-science stance, as I take it on good faith that it is - IMO, calling her stupid is contradictory to your own aims.

Sorry the rambling.

389 nhand42  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:45:22pm

re: #387 Obdicut

Nobody is saying that it’s only idiots who fall for Palin’s schtick, though.

No, what the troll (I disagree he was a troll, but nm) was saying is calling her “stupid” is counterproductive because (1) most people don’t think she is stupid, (2) even people who now call her stupid didn’t think she was stupid at first, and (3) calling her stupid now will just alienate her supporters. The troll was just using category (2) to illustrate why you don’t do (3).

I think part of the problem is she’s very charismatic. One benefit of her charisma is people downplay her flaws. As a comedic example, here’s a great 30 Rock episode where the doctor Liz dates is so handsome that everybody overlooks that he’s a complete doofus. Liz eventually sees through it, even though nobody else ever does.

390 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:48:43pm

re: #303 engineer dog

even though palin polls really badly at this point, and there is even solid evidence of republican activity to nip her in the bud, i am still not so sanguine that palin would be easy to beat. for one thing, refer to h. l. menken’s rule:

“nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the american public”

yes, i’m very afraid that, as with ronald reagan, we will continue to make fun of idiotic things she says, and her poll numbers will continue to look abysmal - until she gets nominated and we get to the general election

be prepared for the idiotocracy

Reagan was no idiot. He got the big things right: lowered taxes, restored the maintenance standing, morale, and readiness of the U.S. military, deregulated trucking so trucks didn’t have to waste half their mileage carrying nothing, “persuaded” Iran to release our hostages, got the ball rolling towards ending the Cold War on a note that made everybody safer and freed millions without a shooting war, chose a reasonably experienced and capable vice president, and dispatched the problems presented by the Resolution Trust Corporation.

Naming Reagan an idiot vitiates the force and pertinence of complaints about Palin not being up to the job. If you say she’s not up to the job she’d just be another Reagan, you haven’t exactly given a lot of Republicans or independents a reason to vote against her.

Sarah Palin is no Ronald Reagan.

391 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:52:20pm

BTW - how different are McCain’s announced stances than Palin’s?

McCain nominated Palin as a candidate. Do you think a presidential candidate you supported would nominate an obviously “stupid” person?

I don’t know how much he’s weighed in on creationism, but he’s pretty much “refudiated” any of his previously “moderate” stances. He’s a politician just like Palin - they do what they think will win them votes. That is their criteria. Do you really know that Palin actually believes that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or is that a stance that she’s taking to pander to fundamentalists?

How about the long line of other Repubilican candidates who toe the line on creationism? Are they all stupid also? Or, are they cravenly appealing to ignorance out of political expediency?

392 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:53:13pm

re: #390 lostlakehiker

lowered taxes,

Actually, Reagan raised taxes.

393 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:54:33pm

re: #310 Conservative Moonbat

Had advance warning of 9/11 and did nothing.

Did NOT have advance warning.

394 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:56:08pm

Just to clarify - am I the “troll” that’s been banned? Because I’m still seeing my posts.

395 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:56:41pm

re: #388 Talking Point Detective

You continue to miss the point — I really don’t care about ‘strategy’ here, and I’m not writing about Sarah Palin in order to cleverly cause her defeat in 2012. Your contention seems to be that I’m somehow ‘wrong’ to characterize her as dumb, despite the fact that she’s really really dumb, because it’s ‘counterproductive’.

Two points: 1) I don’t agree that pointing out stupidity in a political opponent is ‘counterproductive’, and 2) even if I did, I still wouldn’t hesitate to do it when the stupidity is so blindingly obvious.

And point #3, from which points 1 and 2 stem: I repeat, I’m not shilling for either side. I’m trying to write honestly.

396 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:58:26pm

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

Just to clarify - am I the “troll” that’s been banned? Because I’m still seeing my posts.

No, I wrote that to another person.

397 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:58:55pm

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

Just to clarify - am I the “troll” that’s been banned? Because I’m still seeing my posts.

LOL!!!11ty

398 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:59:05pm

re: #391 Talking Point Detective

BTW - how different are McCain’s announced stances than Palin’s?

McCain nominated Palin as a candidate. Do you think a presidential candidate you supported would nominate an obviously “stupid” person?

I don’t know how much he’s weighed in on creationism, but he’s pretty much “refudiated” any of his previously “moderate” stances. He’s a politician just like Palin - they do what they think will win them votes. That is their criteria. Do you really know that Palin actually believes that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or is that a stance that she’s taking to pander to fundamentalists?

How about the long line of other Repubilican candidates who toe the line on creationism? Are they all stupid also? Or, are they cravenly appealing to ignorance out of political expediency?

[Link: lmgtfy.com…]

399 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:59:15pm

re: #397 wrenchwench

LOL!!!11ty

ooh, I snorted…

400 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:04:00pm

re: #395 Charles

You continue to miss the point — I really don’t care about ‘strategy’ here, and I’m not writing about Sarah Palin in order to cleverly cause her defeat in 2012. Your contention seems to be that I’m somehow ‘wrong’ to characterize her as dumb, despite the fact that she’s really really dumb, because it’s ‘counterproductive’.

Two points: 1) I don’t agree that pointing out stupidity in a political opponent is ‘counterproductive’, and 2) even if I did, I still wouldn’t hesitate to do it when the stupidity is so blindingly obvious.

And point #3, from which points 1 and 2 stem: I repeat, I’m not shilling for either side. I’m trying to write honestly.

I’m not suggesting that you’re shilling for either side. Not in the least.

My assumption, however, is that you have a stake in diminishing the anti-science ideology of the right wing. IMO, calling her dumb only adds fuel to the fire of anti-science extremists.

As for your first point, I’m not simply questioning your determination that she’s “dumb because it’s counterproductive (although I think it is counterproductive and reflective of a counterproductive attribute of many on the left - not to assume that you’re on the “left). I also think that the characterization is flawed. It’s a bit of a technical point, and based in my professional focus on how people define “intelligence.”

You don’t agree with my opinion, and neither do the majority of posters. So be it. But I at least want to clarify what my opinion actually is.

401 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:07:47pm

re: #399 wrenchwench

ooh, I snorted…

I was wondering what the “ty” was.

And btw, while I’m trying to establish my “non-troll” credentials, full credit to LGF for the “!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!1!” posting technique. And also for the “somebody call a whambulance” line, as well as the “somebody call whine-one-one” line.

I’m sure there are others also, but those are what immediately come to mind.

402 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:12:43pm

re: #389 nhand42

No, what the troll (I disagree he was a troll, but nm) was saying is calling her “stupid” is counterproductive because (1) most people don’t think she is stupid, (2) even people who now call her stupid didn’t think she was stupid at first, and (3) calling her stupid now will just alienate her supporters. The troll was just using category (2) to illustrate why you don’t do (3).

I think part of the problem is she’s very charismatic. One benefit of her charisma is people downplay her flaws. As a comedic example, here’s a great 30 Rock episode where the doctor Liz dates is so handsome that everybody overlooks that he’s a complete doofus. Liz eventually sees through it, even though nobody else ever does.

This is getting confusing because I think this was an (accurate) summary of what I have been trying to say - but you referred to the person who said that in the past tense and it appears that I’m not dead to LGF.

At any rate, if that was a summary of what I’ve been trying to say — thanks!

403 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:22:14pm

re: #402 Talking Point Detective

Why do you think that the very large number of independents who rate her as highly unfavorable don’t think she’s stupid?

404 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:28:01pm

re: #363 ralphieboy

As far as I can tell, this was just a case of a student who did not want to read the book (because it was a book) and then started finding some controversy to get her out of it.

Sad thing is that our society is so dumbed down that it succeeded.

I’m seeing that. Also, everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame.

405 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:32:46pm

re: #401 Talking Point Detective

I was wondering what the “ty” was.

And btw, while I’m trying to establish my “non-troll” credentials, full credit to LGF for the “!!!1!!!1!!!1!” posting technique. And also for the “somebody call a whambulance” line, as well as the “somebody call whine-one-one” line.

I’m sure there are others also, but those are what immediately come to mind.

The “ty” indicates “eleventy”; a big number, or many exclamation marks.

As for your “non-troll” credentials, keep working on clarifying your meaning. (Your post at #400 doesn’t do it.) Don’t make assertions you can’t back up. If you can back up an assertion, include the link. Don’t make generalizations based on the fewest and least significant facts. Don’t base assertions on assumptions. Don’t whine if you’re called on a falsehood. And don’t phrase an apology in the “if…then” form.

406 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 4:51:29pm

re: #316 Talking Point Detective

I’m confused. I’ve seen multiple posts where you put up the disgusting comments of GOPers from blogs like Hotair.

How is that different than what I described?

Come quick everyone Superman Prime is about to try and fight Galactus!

407 dragonfire1981  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 5:51:15pm

If Palin runs in 2012, then Barack Obama has just been handed 4 more years as President, it’s that simple. Although the GOP made a good showing in the mid terms it would have been even stronger had it not been for Palin and some of the Tea Party candidates she endorsed. The Tea Party alone (as the November 2 vote proved) is NOT enough to give a candidate a win in general election, unless said election is based in a very red state. On a national level, the Tea Party’s power is somewhat limited.

If the GOP really wants the White House in 2012 they need to find someone that can connect with both Tea Party types AND moderates, and that just might be a long definition of: Impossible.

408 Decider  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 6:49:08pm

If Palin runs absolutely no one will be able to come close to beating her….except Obama in the general election. The GOP will live and die by the Fox News/Drudge/Limbaugh/Beck sword. That sword worked great to create misinformation about Obama and win the midterms, now they will have to die in the 2012 election by the same sword.

When you play with the devil you get burned.

409 rearll  Thu, Nov 18, 2010 12:38:00pm

Whn dd LGF bcm n rm f th Lft Wng Prty? gtt sy ws wrng bt ths st….. thght t ws wll rn.

410 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 18, 2010 12:41:30pm

re: #409 rearll

rearll

(Logged in)
Registered since: Jul 26, 2010 at 11:09 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of Pages posted: 0

I guess you would know, huh. Kind of a hatchling-sleeper.

411 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 18, 2010 12:42:22pm

re: #410 wrenchwench

Oops, kind of an ex-hatchling-sleeper.


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