Boycott of Arizona Has Cost the State More Than $140M

US News • Views: 23,313

A new study shows that Arizona’s anti-immigrant law has so far cost the state more than $140 million in lost revenue.

A boycott of Arizona in the wake of a controversial immigration law has cost the state more than $140 million in lost meeting and convention business, a new report released Thursday shows.

The economic impact analysis commissioned by the Center for American Progress put hotel industry losses during the first four months after the signing at about $45 million. Visitors would have spent an additional $96 million during their stays, said Angela Kelley, the group’s vice president for immigration and advocacy.

“This is as much I think to serve a warning to other states, particularly those who rely on tourism and conferences and conventions, that there is an economic impact to it,” Kelley said. “We feel like this is a very modest slice, just a piece of what the economic impact is, and we don’t think that we’re overstating it or overselling it.”

The study was paid for by the group, a liberal-leaning think tank, but conducted by the respected Scottsdale-based economic firm Elliott D. Pollack & Co.

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98 comments
1 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:19:03am

I'm pissed off about Arizona's law too, but a boycott is not the way to deal with it. It would be if the people who had passed the law were responsible adults who cared about the consequences of their actions. But as it is, it's going to wind up hurting the people in the tourism industry, small business owners, etc.

2 Kragar  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:20:30am

re: #1 Obdicut

I'm pissed off about Arizona's law too, but a boycott is not the way to deal with it. It would be if the people who had passed the law were responsible adults who cared about the consequences of their actions. But as it is, it's going to wind up hurting the people in the tourism industry, small business owners, etc.

Maybe they'll think about voting some responsible adults into office next time.

3 BishopX  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:35:21am

re: #1 Obdicut

I think it's a pretty good example of unintended effects of regulation... People have been screaming about the effects of "liberal" regulation (environmental laws, labor laws,food safety laws...etc) for decades now. Hopefully people will start to realize that ANY government regulation has effects beyond the the scope of the regulation.

N.B. I'm not saying that regulation is bad, merely that is hard.

4 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:37:30am

Forgive my bluntness, but the people of Arizona brought this upon themselves.

PS; Colds suck.

5 recusancy  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:39:44am

re: #3 BishopX

I think it's a pretty good example of unintended effects of regulation... People have been screaming about the effects of "liberal" regulation (environmental laws, labor laws,food safety laws...etc) for decades now. Hopefully people will start to realize that ANY government regulation has effects beyond the the scope of the regulation.

N.B. I'm not saying that regulation is bad, merely that is hard.

The left wants to regulate business. The right wants to regulate people.

6 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:43:57am

re: #4 Varek Raith

Forgive my bluntness, but the people of Arizona brought this upon themselves.

PS; Colds suck.

More than you might know (not the colds part.)

U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Tucson, called for the boycott and almost lost his seat over it. He decided it had been a bad political move, but he did keep his seat. He's one of the three recipients of money from Olberman, to tie into the previous thread.

7 insanity police  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:57:33am

Boycott Watch has some decent articles about the AZ Boycott:

US Gov Engaging in Arizona Boycott - Ignoring Boycott Watch Warnings

Arizona Boycott: Representation Without Responsibility

The author is anti-boycott. They're worth reading.

8 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:59:19am

re: #1 Obdicut

I'm pissed off about Arizona's law too, but a boycott is not the way to deal with it. It would be if the people who had passed the law were responsible adults who cared about the consequences of their actions. But as it is, it's going to wind up hurting the people in the tourism industry, small business owners, etc.

I'm anti-boycott myself, because it does hurt innocent people, but I can't help but grin about this. And I have family in Arizona.

They re-elected that know-nothing idiot, anti-immigration twit Jan Brewer as governor so they can expect more of the same.

9 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:01:37pm

re: #4 Varek Raith

Forgive my bluntness, but the people of Arizona brought this upon themselves.

PS; Colds suck.

The one bright side is they elected Gabrielle Giffords who is a fantastic Congressperson.

10 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:01:55pm

by the time this AZ law is repealed, amended or whatever is the case, the paradigm along the border will be shifting away to a far more dangerous situation....there is no stopping the cartels and there is no reason not to extrapolate the worst possible scenario...sitting on our asses, while people suffer..there is too much money and firepower down there

11 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:06:09pm

re: #9 marjoriemoon

The one bright side is they elected Gabrielle Giffords who is a fantastic Congressperson.

She was another of the three recipients of money from Olbermann. I think SB1070 pissed him off.

12 BlarneyStone  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:08:10pm

Mainstream Republicans will be fundraising/celebrating Arizona's immigration law this weekend at David Horowitz's unironically named Freedom Center. Even if you felt the the law was a justified restriction on freedom (it's not), you'd have to admit that it restricts freedom. Last year they had Geert Wilders.

Restoration Weekend Confirmed speakers:

Arizona State Senators Russell Pearce and Thayer Verschoor,
John Yoo and Marc Thiessen
Newt Gingrich
Robert Spencer
Pastor John Hagee
Liz Cheney
Michele Bachmann
JPost editor/Netanyahu aide Caroline Glick (wtf?)

So they can "restore" America to whatever it was, I guess.

Also, the alignment of right-wing Israelis with the evangelist American second-coming crowd is completely and totally insane. A Hagee quote: In his book Jerusalem Countdown, Hagee claims that Adolf Hitler was born from a lineage of "accursed, genocidally murderous half-breed Jews."

13 researchok  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:08:48pm

re: #10 albusteve

by the time this AZ law is repealed, amended or whatever is the case, the paradigm along the border will be shifting away to a far more dangerous situation...there is no stopping the cartels and there is no reason not to extrapolate the worst possible scenario...sitting on our asses, while people suffer..there is too much money and firepower down there

That's the reality.

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:09:52pm

This segues so directly into the page I just made.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I am thrilled some Americans still get it.

15 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:09:54pm

Update: Fake bomb made in the US caused Germany terror alert

Today , however, a German government minister revealed the bizarre truth: the bomb was fake, manufactured in the US to test airport security. It was not yet clear who had planted "test suitcase", the German interior minister, Thomas de Mazière, said, but the one fact they had established was that the device had been manufactured by a US company that specialises in alarm systems. At no time were passengers' lives in danger.

"This company is a manufacturer of alarm and detection systems and these real test suitcases are built to test security measures," he said.


Somebody misplaced their training materials.

16 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:11:14pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

She was another of the three recipients of money from Olbermann. I think SB1070 pissed him off.

I had no idea. My mom adores her. She's seen her speak a number of times.

17 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:11:31pm

re: #1 Obdicut

I'm pissed off about Arizona's law too, but a boycott is not the way to deal with it. It would be if the people who had passed the law were responsible adults who cared about the consequences of their actions. But as it is, it's going to wind up hurting the people in the tourism industry, small business owners, etc.

Then those folks will vote the cretins they elected out of office. I am really tired of the notion that we do not have responsibility for the government we elect.

18 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:11:36pm

re: #7 insanity police

Boycott Watch has some decent articles about the AZ Boycott:

US Gov Engaging in Arizona Boycott - Ignoring Boycott Watch Warnings

Arizona Boycott: Representation Without Responsibility

The author is anti-boycott. They're worth reading.

A boycott is just a tool for people who don't have much power. I oppose some, I favor some. That "Boycott Watch" fellow opposes the "divestment from Israel" campaigns, as do I, but his initial article about the Arizona boycott is full of hyperbole, such as equating it to starting a civil war.

19 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:13:27pm

re: #10 albusteve

by the time this AZ law is repealed, amended or whatever is the case, the paradigm along the border will be shifting away to a far more dangerous situation...there is no stopping the cartels and there is no reason not to extrapolate the worst possible scenario...sitting on our asses, while people suffer..there is too much money and firepower down there

Eh, no problem.

Gov. Rick Perry said Thursday he would support sending U.S. troops into Mexico to fight the drug war.
20 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:14:11pm

re: #12 BlarneyStone

Mainstream Republicans will be fundraising/celebrating Arizona's immigration law this weekend at David Horowitz's unironically named Freedom Center. Even if you felt the the law was a justified restriction on freedom (it's not), you'd have to admit that it restricts freedom. Last year they had Geert Wilders.

Restoration Weekend Confirmed speakers:

Arizona State Senators Russell Pearce and Thayer Verschoor,
John Yoo and Marc Thiessen
Newt Gingrich
Robert Spencer
Pastor John Hagee
Liz Cheney
Michele Bachmann
JPost editor/Netanyahu aide Caroline Glick (wtf?)

So they can "restore" America to whatever it was, I guess.

Also, the alignment of right-wing Israelis with the evangelist American second-coming crowd is completely and totally insane. A Hagee quote: In his book Jerusalem Countdown, Hagee claims that Adolf Hitler was born from a lineage of "accursed, genocidally murderous half-breed Jews."

I'll second that "WTF." I think adding Israelis into the mix is really unfair. Israel has another set of issues completely different than the U.S. Our immigration issues are nothing like theirs and vice versa. For that reason, I'm surprised to see Caroline Glick at such a conference.

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:14:21pm

re: #8 marjoriemoon

I'm anti-boycott myself, because it does hurt innocent people, but I can't help but grin about this. And I have family in Arizona.

They re-elected that know-nothing idiot, anti-immigration twit Jan Brewer as governor so they can expect more of the same.

I am absolutely pro-boycott. The only thing that can penetrate the propaganda bubble is getting them in their pocketbooks.

Like I said before. These folks are not innocent. They voted for that government and they re-affirmed those types of candidates in the recent election. Gazans have responsibility for Hamas too.

And no I am not comparing the Az Nazi types who penned the law to Hamas. There is a difference. The Az. neo-Nazis who penned the law were white, wealthy and Christian.

22 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:16:19pm

re: #12 BlarneyStone

Mainstream Republicans will be fundraising/celebrating Arizona's immigration law this weekend at David Horowitz's unironically named Freedom Center. Even if you felt the the law was a justified restriction on freedom (it's not), you'd have to admit that it restricts freedom. Last year they had Geert Wilders.

Restoration Weekend Confirmed speakers:

Arizona State Senators Russell Pearce and Thayer Verschoor,
John Yoo and Marc Thiessen
Newt Gingrich
Robert Spencer
Pastor John Hagee
Liz Cheney
Michele Bachmann
JPost editor/Netanyahu aide Caroline Glick (wtf?)

So they can "restore" America to whatever it was, I guess.

Also, the alignment of right-wing Israelis with the evangelist American second-coming crowd is completely and totally insane. A Hagee quote: In his book Jerusalem Countdown, Hagee claims that Adolf Hitler was born from a lineage of "accursed, genocidally murderous half-breed Jews."

Sorry, I meant to comment on that last bit.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any rightwing Jews who would claim that of Hitler.

23 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:17:00pm

As far as I can tell, any state that aggressively enforces the Federal law will catch just as much trouble. Here is why I think so, among other reasons.

Special Order 40 is a policy established in Los Angeles in 1979. Special Order 40 prohibits police officers from "initiat(ing) police action with the objective of discovering the alien status of a person." This prevents officers from inquiring about the immigration status of an individual and from contacting federal immigration officials about an individual's immigration status. In May, 2006, Judicial Watch filed a taxpayer lawsuit in the Superior Court of the State of California, County of Los Angeles asking the court to prohibit the LAPD from expending taxpayer funds to enforce and maintain Special Order 40, which violates both federal immigration laws and California law while placing American citizens at risk. After Judicial Watch filed the taxpayer lawsuit, ACLU lawyers intervened for illegal aliens to help defend the Special Order 40 sanctuary policy.

24 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:18:12pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

How would you feel if they just went with the Federal statute ?

25 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:18:39pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

And no I am not comparing the Az Nazi types who penned the law to Hamas. There is a difference. The Az. neo-Nazis who penned the law were white, wealthy and Christian.

And the main author is from Kansas, and is now the Secretary of State-elect. Time to boycott Kansas?

26 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:19:37pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

I am absolutely pro-boycott. The only thing that can penetrate the propaganda bubble is getting them in their pocketbooks.

Like I said before. These folks are not innocent. They voted for that government and they re-affirmed those types of candidates in the recent election. Gazans have responsibility for Hamas too.

And no I am not comparing the Az Nazi types who penned the law to Hamas. There is a difference. The Az. neo-Nazis who penned the law were white, wealthy and Christian.

Lots of them are innocent. Lots of them didn't vote for Brewer or her knuckle dragging crew.

Gazans are held hostage by their fear-mongering dictators. A whole other issue. U.S. citizens are free to chose their side and not listen to the fear-mongers. The Arabs living in the territories are fed little else.

I was a big boycott supporter until the tuna boycott (catching dolphins in the nets) put 1000s of small time fisherman out of work, essentially closing business that had been in the families for generations. Not a good way to make a point.

27 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:22:02pm

re: #26 marjoriemoon

Lots of them are innocent. Lots of them didn't vote for Brewer or her knuckle dragging crew.

Gazans are held hostage by their fear-mongering dictators. A whole other issue. U.S. citizens are free to chose their side and not listen to the fear-mongers. The Arabs living in the territories are fed little else.

I was a big boycott supporter until the tuna boycott (catching dolphins in the nets) put 1000s of small time fisherman out of work, essentially closing business that had been in the families for generations. Not a good way to make a point.

so draconian...put people out of work as opposed to asking their nationality...seems irrational to me

28 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:22:43pm

Look at Governor Skeletor (FL Rick Scott). He won by a hair, some 50,000 votes. So nearly 1/2 the voters did not vote for him. But people will say we got what we deserve anyway.

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:23:12pm

Your text to link...

Okay, I think this is funny.

OTOH, I would not want him showing up in a Prius either.

30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:24:50pm

re: #26 marjoriemoon

Boycotting BP hurt a bunch of small business people, but didn't hurt BP a bit.

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:26:05pm
32 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:26:45pm

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Boycotting BP hurt a bunch of small business people, but didn't hurt BP a bit.

Another fine example!

It's a hard thing to say because boycotts are, indeed, effective when little else is. I'm kinda torn about it.

33 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:29:46pm

gotta jet. see ya'll later!

34 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:30:07pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

As far as I can tell, any state that aggressively enforces the Federal law will catch just as much trouble. Here is why I think so, among other reasons.

Special Order 40 is a policy established in Los Angeles in 1979. Special Order 40 prohibits police officers from "initiat(ing) police action with the objective of discovering the alien status of a person." This prevents officers from inquiring about the immigration status of an individual and from contacting federal immigration officials about an individual's immigration status. In May, 2006, Judicial Watch filed a taxpayer lawsuit in the Superior Court of the State of California, County of Los Angeles asking the court to prohibit the LAPD from expending taxpayer funds to enforce and maintain Special Order 40, which violates both federal immigration laws and California law while placing American citizens at risk. After Judicial Watch filed the taxpayer lawsuit, ACLU lawyers intervened for illegal aliens to help defend the Special Order 40 sanctuary policy.

Here's another link about Special Order 40. Special Order 40 is good for all the same reasons SB 1070 is bad. If retired Police Chief Daryl Gates is for it, how bad can it be?

What remains in place that accomplishes the task of removing dangerous, law-breaking illegal aliens is the ability to check immigration status for anyone AFTER THEY ARE ARRESTED.

35 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:32:12pm

This measures impact only in terms of conventions -- since passing of 1070 AZ has dropped to the bottom of the list of places to visit in the US.

36 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:33:21pm

arg "for me" should be at the end of that last comment...

37 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:33:52pm

re: #12 BlarneyStone

Restoration Weekend Confirmed speakers:
Arizona State Senators Russell Pearce and Thayer Verschoor,
John Yoo and Marc Thiessen
Newt Gingrich
Robert Spencer
Pastor John Hagee
Liz Cheney
Michele Bachmann
JPost editor/Netanyahu aide Caroline Glick (wtf?)

So they can "restore" America to whatever it was, I guess.

Sounds like Value Voters Summit Called Something Else Like Restoration Weekend. Socon douchebags getting in one last hurrah before Santa comes.

Whenever they talk about restoring, they're going into arguments about how the nation would be better off if it was a Christian theocracy, then why homos are the downfall of society, the dangers of liberals, and maybe tailspin out of control about abortion. Whenever the terms Heritage, Heartland, or Restore to [fill in the blank] is used by socons, this is precisely what they are speaking about. They can dress it up and paint it pink, but that's the gist of it. FWIW, Horowitz is also a nutjob.

38 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:35:01pm

re: #35 Thanos

This measures impact only in terms of conventions -- since passing of 1070 AZ has dropped to the bottom of the list of places to visit in the US.

ya seen one canyon, ya seen em all

39 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:36:23pm

Restoration Weekend

alternative history is a great science fiction genre

as a basis for social policy, it leaves something to be desired...

40 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:36:31pm

re: #31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He should use a moped and fly coach, like all the other presidents.
//

41 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:37:50pm

re: #37 theheat

Sounds like Value Voters Summit Called Something Else Like Restoration Weekend. Socon douchebags getting in one last hurrah before Santa comes.

Whenever they talk about restoring, they're going into arguments about how the nation would be better off if it was a Christian theocracy
, then why homos are the downfall of society, the dangers of liberals, and maybe tailspin out of control about abortion. Whenever the terms Heritage, Heartland, or Restore to [fill in the blank] is used by socons, this is precisely what they are speaking about. They can dress it up and paint it pink, but that's the gist of it. FWIW, Horowitz is also a nutjob.

interesting...

“We really believe if God’s words can be part of our everyday life… that in itself will transform lives.”

[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com...]

42 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:39:20pm

re: #19 wrenchwench

Does that mean Texistan will now defend Mexico from itself? I hope they don't expect any federal assistance in that matter.

43 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:41:22pm

re: #41 albusteve

iPhone apps and national governmental policy are two different things. But I'm sure you're aware of that. They're arguing for the latter.

44 Stanghazi  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:43:31pm

re: #35 Thanos

This measures impact only in terms of conventions -- since passing of 1070 AZ has dropped to the bottom of the list of places to visit in the US.

I don't think the Governor getting on TV warning of beheadings helped tourism much.

45 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:44:41pm

re: #44 Stanley Sea

I don't think the Governor getting on TV warning of beheadings helped tourism much.

Excellent point. She has nothing to bitch about here, that's for sure.

46 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:44:44pm

re: #43 theheat

iPhone apps and national governmental policy are two different things. But I'm sure you're aware of that. They're arguing for the latter.

I realize that...spooky eh?...and I see it as a reality for the Gen Z crowd...a theocracy is just a sophisticated expression of fear and ignorance

47 cliffster  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:51:35pm

re: #44 Stanley Sea

I don't think the Governor getting on TV warning of beheadings helped tourism much.

hehe, yeah that was a ringing endorsement.

48 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:54:36pm

re: #47 cliffster

hehe, yeah that was a ringing endorsement.

take my arm, take my leg
oh baby don't you take my head

49 Kragar  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:56:18pm

Sharron Angle: "Sometimes Dictators Have Good Ideas"

The Nevada Sun's Jon Ralston reports that Angle made the comments "late in the campaign, during a private meet and greet" during which no members of the press were present.

Ralston continues that Angle invoked Pinochet's name when discussing Social Security privatization: "She had previously used Chile's Augusto Pinochet's experiment as an example, but had not used it since her staff shut her down," Ralston writes. "That day, with no media there, saying her staff had warned her not to use it, she raised the Chile example again and added, 'Sometimes dictators have good ideas.' Her staff fretted the line would get out. It did not. Until now."

50 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:56:22pm

Just as an fyi, the threads seem to move fine until the comments get past 600 or so. I'm sitting in a hospital room watching my stubborn brother argue with a doc. Sometimes people are too stubborn for their own good.

51 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:57:11pm

re: #50 RogueOne

How's he doing? At least he went to a doc.

52 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:59:14pm

re: #50 RogueOne

Just as an fyi, the threads seem to move fine until the comments get past 600 or so. I'm sitting in a hospital room watching my stubborn brother argue with a doc. Sometimes people are too stubborn for their own good.

I know exactly what you mean.
My dad had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the ER after his heart attack.
He's fine now.

53 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:00:17pm

re: #52 Varek Raith

I know exactly what you mean.
My dad had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the ER after his heart attack.
He's fine now.

you must submit to your Medical Overlords

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:00:42pm

re: #40 theheat

He should use a moped and fly coach, like all the other presidents.
//

I know. Right?

55 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:00:56pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sharron Angle: "Sometimes Dictators Have Good Ideas"



Sometimes you feel like a nut.
Sometimes you don't

56 Kragar  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:02:05pm

re: #55 Varek Raith


Sometimes you feel like a nut.
Sometimes you don't

You know, sometimes Meth Dealers have good ideas...

57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:02:08pm

re: #48 albusteve

take my arm, take my leg
oh baby don't you take my head

Throw my brain in a hurricane
The blind can have my eyes
The deaf can take both of my ears
If they don't mind the size.
-John Prine

58 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:02:19pm

re: #48 albusteve

How are YOU feeling albusteve? Any different, or better?

59 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:04:28pm

re: #58 theheat

How are YOU feeling albusteve? Any different, or better?

better by a very slow margin...my leg is taking it's sweet time to heal...but a month ago I was in too much pain to even post here, let alone all the rest...there is progress, thanks

60 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:07:01pm

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you were POTUS they'd bitch about your personal chef(s) plural to prepare your non-meateous sustenance, and the fact you required pastry chefs 24/7 for any time you had a hankering for cake or pie. And no matter how good a president you were, they'd complain about your peculiar dietary habits. Never once get credit for eating the salad, all the media would yap about was how much cake.

61 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:07:13pm

re: #59 albusteve

better by a very slow margin...my leg is taking it's sweet time to heal...but a month ago I was in too much pain to even post here, let alone all the rest...there is progress, thanks

Good to hear there is progress!
As aggravating as you can be at times (and I love ya, Steve, but it's just true), I think most everyone here wishes you well.

62 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:08:24pm

re: #59 albusteve

better by a very slow margin...my leg is taking it's sweet time to heal...but a month ago I was in too much pain to even post here, let alone all the rest...there is progress, thanks

Keep getting better.
:)

63 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:09:05pm

re: #59 albusteve

Glad to hear it's improving. I hope by spring you'll be sprinting. Well, kinda sprinting. Keep it up!

64 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:10:01pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

Good to hear there is progress!
As aggravating as you can be at times (and I love ya, Steve, but it's just true), I think most everyone here wishes you well.

providing aggravation...a dirty, thankless job, but I'll do it

65 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:10:17pm

re: #60 theheat
I still think you have to be insane to want the job.

66 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:10:49pm

re: #63 theheat

Glad to hear it's improving. I hope by spring you'll be sprinting. Well, kinda sprinting. Keep it up!

my goal is to ski next season....seems reasonable

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:11:59pm

re: #64 albusteve

Not sure if I told you this; my cousin lost his leg at the upper thigh in September. Kept going to the Dr, they missed the blood clots.

Finally caught it when he got gangrenous.

68 ihateronpaul  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:12:13pm

fuck 1070
racism writ unto law

69 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:12:27pm

re: #66 albusteve

Hell yeah.

70 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:13:49pm

re: #65 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But think of all the cake. Unfortunately, I think wearing pants is part of the dress code.

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:14:06pm

Argument 1: think of what the state has saved in social services by running off all those undocumented aliens

Argument 2: a small price to pay for maintaining their dignity and integrity

Argument 3: F*ck off and die, you jive Eastern elitist c*cksuckers!!!

Argument 4: Smith & Wesson (carried concealed with license)

/

(added just in case)

72 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:14:27pm

re: #66 albusteve

Hell yes!

73 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:14:49pm

re: #51 theheat

re: #52 Varek Raith

He's a few years younger than I am but his heart sucks. They're in the process of sending us to the heart hospital to do surgery. He'll be fine, too mean to be put down by anything short of a bullet.

74 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:16:07pm

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not sure if I told you this; my cousin lost his leg at the upper thigh in September. Kept going to the Dr, they missed the blood clots.

Finally caught it when he got gangrenous.

mines below the knee...a piece of cake, if it ever heals...I am thoroughly burned out on walkers, wheelchairs and crutches...my heart goes out to your kin, it's rough

75 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:16:40pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sharron Angle: "Sometimes Dictators Have Good Ideas"

something makes me think that if you pointed out to wingnuts that angle admired pinochet, they would tell you that he was a great authoritarian unjustly abused by socialists (or, more probably, "soicalists") that we should look up to in our progress toward the 16th century

76 Ojoe  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:19:24pm

``It is required of every man,'' the Ghost returned, ``that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide; and if that spirit goes not forth in life, it is condemned to do so after death. It is doomed to wander through the world -- oh, woe is me! -- and witness what it cannot share, but might have shared on earth, and turned to happiness!''

Again the spectre raised a cry, and shook its chain, and wrung its shadowy hands.

``You are fettered,'' said Scrooge, trembling. ``Tell me why?''

``I wear the chain I forged in life,'' replied the Ghost. ``I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it. Is its pattern strange to you?''

Scrooge trembled more and more.

``Or would you know,'' pursued the Ghost, ``the weight and length of the strong coil you bear yourself? It was full as heavy and as long as this, seven Christmas Eves ago. You have laboured on it, since. It is a ponderous chain!''

77 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:19:40pm

re: #73 RogueOne

Meanness and stubbornness has a lot to do with it. If he goes out tomorrow, my dad's pretty much way outlasted his prognosis. He's just too grumpy to throw in the towel. He drives me nuts sometimes, but he's a tough old bird. Best wishes to your brother. I'll be thinking of him.

78 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:21:23pm

re: #74 albusteve

You'll have to get over to Washington and come ride when you're better. There are plenty of one-legged cowboys, and I can saddle you up one.

79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:21:24pm

re: #76 Ojoe

Nice.

80 cliffster  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:21:25pm

re: #59 albusteve

better by a very slow margin...my leg is taking it's sweet time to heal...but a month ago I was in too much pain to even post here, let alone all the rest...there is progress, thanks

good to hear. keep on rolling, steve

81 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:22:40pm

re: #78 theheat

Not saddle up a cowboy, but a horse!

82 Kragar  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:23:50pm

So my neighbors have had a little rat dog, which is no big deal, except that now, they decided to get it a friend and all the 2 little fucking things do is bark at each other ALL FUCKING DAY.

83 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:26:04pm

re: #78 theheat

You'll have to get over to Washington and come ride when you're better. There are plenty of one-legged cowboys, and I can saddle you up one.

I love horses...just to watch them stand around if nothing else...sometimes I go down the way and take apples to some horse friends I made...I can lean against the fence right next to my car and they always come over to see me...lots of horses around here and folks ride them all around the canals and aceqias

84 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:27:01pm

re: #80 cliffster

good to hear. keep on rolling, steve

I'm trying...it's been a long haul

85 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:29:17pm

re: #83 albusteve

They're the best. I've been crazy about them since before I could walk. If you think they're nice from the ground, wait until you go out on a trail or somewhere on a ride. It's spiritual. It's about as perfect as it gets.

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:29:22pm

re: #83 albusteve

Saw about a hundred cows scattered across a large field yesterday. They weren't on the move toward the barn, but all (but two) were facing the exact direction.

I'm sure there's some reason, but I thought it was interesting.

87 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:31:25pm

re: #85 theheat

They're the best. I've been crazy about them since before I could walk. If you think they're nice from the ground, wait until you go out on a trail or somewhere on a ride. It's spiritual. It's about as perfect as it gets.

I have a few times...I love the way they move underneath you

88 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:32:39pm

re: #87 albusteve

I have a few times...I love the way they move underneath you

It's when they go out from under you it kinda sucks ;-) But that's not often!

89 albusteve  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:34:07pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Saw about a hundred cows scattered across a large field yesterday. They weren't on the move toward the barn, but all (but two) were facing the exact direction.

I'm sure there's some reason, but I thought it was interesting.

I've seen parts of several drives out here....way back, deep in mesa country they still herd cattle by horse, complete with dogs, Winchesters, modern chuck wagons etc

90 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:55:21pm

It's not the AZ law that has cost AZ that sum. it's the boycott.

A more accurate phrasing: rather than writing

A new study shows that Arizona’s anti-immigrant law has so far cost the state more than $140 million in lost revenue,

instead say that

A boycott of Arizona in the wake of a controversial immigration law has cost the state more than $140 million in lost meeting and convention business, a new report released Thursday shows.

Imagine if we went to boycotting each other over all sorts of things. Either the offended group prevails, and the target state is duly punished and the wishes of its voters are set aside in the interest of economic survival, or the offended group cannot enforce its demands, and the state stands its grounds and pays the consequences.

CA may be offended that other states have not passed cap and trade legislation. Other states may be offended that CA puts a tariff on electricity generated in un-green fashion. Our constitution was written with an eye to history, and such tariffs were even then nothing new. They are illegal because the founders recognized that permitting them would only sow chaos. Boycotts by one state of another are likewise illegal.

Private boycotts remain legal, but there are many legal ways to sow chaos and inflict mutual harm. Wording that shifts the cause of the economic loss from the boycott itself to the party under attack strikes a sour note.

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 1:58:22pm

re: #20 marjoriemoon

I'll second that "WTF." I think adding Israelis into the mix is really unfair. Israel has another set of issues completely different than the U.S. Our immigration issues are nothing like theirs and vice versa. For that reason, I'm surprised to see Caroline Glick at such a conference.

That's just the convergence of the American far right and Israeli far right. Glick is an editor at the unhinged "Latma TV" which has been maligning the US leadership (Obama, Emanuel) for some time now.

92 Amory Blaine  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 2:07:21pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sharron Angle: "Sometimes Dictators Have Good Ideas"

The fact she got within 5+ points is disturbing.

93 Lidane  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 3:03:05pm

re: #10 albusteve

there is no stopping the cartels and there is no reason not to extrapolate the worst possible scenario...sitting on our asses, while people suffer..there is too much money and firepower down there

And yet, there raging teabagger imbeciles, like my idiot governor here in Austin, saying that they want to secede from the United States over things like immigration.

Yeah. Good luck with that. As if withdrawing from the US would help a border state in facing the cartels.

94 Spocomptonite  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 3:25:33pm

What did they expect? This is a diverse country with a large (legal) non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants population and an even larger population of first generation Americans descended from that same group of immigrants. Did they think that the threat of arrest until citizenship can be proven if you look like an immigrant was going to attract a lot of people?

95 Ming  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 4:33:39pm

Remember what happened to Sharron Angle, when she ran ads on television that were, shall we say, disrespectful to Latinos?

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 4:39:47pm

re: #22 marjoriemoon

Sorry, I meant to comment on that last bit.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any rightwing Jews who would claim that of Hitler.

No doubt true, but one does wonder if that quote might deter Glick from becoming associated with Mr. Hagee.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 4:42:20pm

re: #34 wrenchwench

Here's another link about Special Order 40. Special Order 40 is good for all the same reasons SB 1070 is bad. If retired Police Chief Daryl Gates is for it, how bad can it be?

What remains in place that accomplishes the task of removing dangerous, law-breaking illegal aliens is the ability to check immigration status for anyone AFTER THEY ARE ARRESTED.

Let's just say that LAPD is not known for soft-heartedness or fuzzy left-leaning. Special Order 40 may be legal, illegal, good, bad or indifferent, but it has remained in place because it makes police work possible.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 4:47:30pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Saw about a hundred cows scattered across a large field yesterday. They weren't on the move toward the barn, but all (but two) were facing the exact direction.

I'm sure there's some reason, but I thought it was interesting.

They do that. I have no idea why, unless they just favor the symmetry of the whole thing.


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