Today’s world news: North Korea has shelled South Korea, with a three-hour artillery barrage that killed several people. There are 30,000 US troops still stationed in South Korea, but so far there has been no reaction from the US. Here’s a video report from MSNBC:
1 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:37:10am |
Once again the Norks demand to be noticed in one of their periodic temper tantrums. It is tragic that two died as a result.
| 2 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:37:30am |
Once again, living next to a deranged megalomaniac is no fun.
Sympathy to the family of the SK soldier.
| 3 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:37:53am |
re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote
It’s two now? Crud.
| 4 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:37:54am |
I can’t wait to see what Glenn Beck and Alex Jones make of this.
| 5 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:37:54am |
Wingnuts, TP’ers and Sarah Palin blame Obama for this in 3…2…1….
| 6 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:38:27am |
re: #5 Surabaya Stew
Wingnuts, TP’ers and Sarah Palin blame Obama for this in 3…2…1…
Oh I am sure they already did.
| 7 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:39:07am |
re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote
Once again the Norks demand to be noticed in one of their periodic temper tantrums. It is tragic that two died as a result.
The consensus seems to be that this is about internal Nork politics to ease the transition of power.
| 8 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:39:12am |
| 9 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:40:39am |
The North claims that the South initiated the fighting when it fired test rockets/missiles towards them. The South says that they were carrying out routine tests, but the tests were fired away from the North (knowing that the North would use and capitalize on any perceive provocation with extreme prejudice).
The North has repeatedly engaged in attacks on the South. For its part, the South has not responded with military force, but that may change since this is the second time in a year that the North has killed or injured a significant number of South Koreans (the North sunk a South Korean frigate earlier this year killing 46 on board).
Pressure on the SK government by the South Korean people may finally demand a response to the ongoing harassment and violence directed at it by the North. The North, for its part continues its long history of testing the limits of sanity and South Korean restraint. They want to see just how far they can push the South, and they keep edging ever closer to the precipice.
Add to the situation the ongoing discussions on nuclear disarmament and I’d say that this was all part of a negotiating posture to demand still more concessions from the West and South Korea. It’s not like they haven’t tried that before too.
| 10 |
Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:40:57am |
North Korea could melt down into the world’s largest humanitarian crisis at any moment.
I hope our troops stay safe.
| 11 |
okonkolo Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:41:20am |
Seoul being so close to the border really complicates all but the most limited responses.
| 12 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:41:28am |
The Yahoo comments on this are a carnival of ignorance: Another Vietnam/Iraq etc., the South Koreans are at fault for ignoring (wholly unwarranted and illegal) communist edicts, the US should “stay out” (a bit late for that, 60 years to be exact), invincible million man Nork army will overrun the South in days, American troops are hostages with no power to resist!
| 13 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:44:45am |
re: #4 Killgore Trout
I can’t wait to see what Glenn Beck and Alex Jones make of this.
*shudder*
Best guess: The Kenyan Marxist tool-of-wall-street and the military-industrial-complex, Obama, must have somehow given the Norks the green light for this, possibly to distract attention from some of one or the other of his evil machinations.
| 14 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:44:54am |
Oh good gravy! Drudge makes this all about the TSA in 3… 2… 1…
I hate to see stuff like this about Hartsfield. Atlanta really isn’t a crime ridden city.
| 15 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:46:03am |
Rush is already complaining that all Obama has done is talk and hasn’t authorized a complete invasion of North Korea yet.
Fuck nut.
| 16 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:46:38am |
re: #12 Shiplord Kirel
Alex Jones, with the help of wingnuts favorite Russia Today are claiming the North is being framed….
South admits firing first shells in row with North Korea
Beck and Fox News might take this route but I suspect Beck will try to work in his California missile launch conspiracy from last week.
| 17 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:46:50am |
re: #10 Obdicut
North Korea could melt down into the world’s largest humanitarian crisis at any moment.
I thought they were already there.
I hope our troops stay safe.
Ditto.
| 18 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:46:55am |
re: #13 Shiplord Kirel
*shudder*
Best guess: The Kenyan Marxist tool-of-wall-street and the military-industrial-complex, Obama, must have somehow given the Norks the green light for this, possibly to distract attention from some of one or the other of his evil machinations.
Or for the Big Hollywood crowd: It’s been orchestrated by Alan Alda to revive M*A*S*H reruns.
| 19 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:47:48am |
Keep in mind, any serious military reaction and Seoul is gone.
| 20 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:00am |
My FIL was in Korea in the fifties. Brave bastard, he.
| 21 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:17am |
re: #14 DaddyG
Oh good gravy! Drudge makes this all about the TSA in 3… 2… 1…
[Link: www.ajc.com…]
I hate to see stuff like this about Hartsfield. Atlanta really isn’t a crime ridden city.
Drudge is also linking to WND claiming that TSA are spreading STD’s with their genital groping gloves.
| 22 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:28am |
re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush is already complaining that all Obama has done is talk and hasn’t authorized a complete invasion of North Korea yet.
Fuck nut.
Because, you know, starting a third war with an entrenched and fanatical enemy, on the doorstep of China, is just what we need now.
The Gomorrah Old Party really is the party of full on evil retards.
| 23 |
Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:29am |
re: #17 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I meant if the government actually simply collapses at some point. I can see it happening during the transition, with the leaders simply fleeing with money to some corrupt little island, leaving the rest of the world to deal with the mess they’ve left behind.
| 24 |
BLUE POINT NINE FOUR TWO SIX FIVE Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:31am |
re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush is already complaining that all Obama has done is talk and hasn’t authorized a complete invasion of North Korea yet.
Fuck nut.
I say he should lead the charge with the SK forces if we don’t do anything.Fucking Toad.
| 25 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:51am |
re: #16 Killgore Trout
Beck and Fox News might take this route but I suspect Beck will try to work in his California missile launch conspiracy from last week.
My parents are tuned in to Fox News right now. Their angle is more toward the line that “Obama’s not doing anything, he’s flying to Indiana to give a pep talk to his union supporters rather than dealing with this crisis.”
| 26 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:48:55am |
Death throes of a demented dictator.
At least I hope its not Jr calling the shots on this one.
| 27 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:49:21am |
Rush says security pat downs are proof that the terrorist have won.
Seriously.
I guess all the concerts I went to in the 80s and 90s meant the terrorists won then too.
| 28 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:49:33am |
re: #23 Obdicut
My heart goes out to the people there.
Labor camps. In 2010; there are Labor camps on Earth.
| 29 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:49:57am |
re: #21 Killgore Trout
Drudge is also linking to WND claiming that TSA are spreading STD’s with their genital groping gloves.
He hasn’t picked this one up yet. It just hit he Atlanta paper. I just expect him to do so as soon as the North Korean situation stops garnering him hits.
| 30 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:50:22am |
re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My FIL was in Korea in the fifties. Brave bastard, he.
My father was in the Navy, but stationed in Hawaii. Lucky bastard, he, and he knows it. He’s kind of apologetic about his service.
| 31 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:50:34am |
re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I guess all the concerts I went to in the 80s and 90s meant the terrorists won then too.
Ummm… those weren’t security guards. //
| 32 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:51:58am |
re: #30 wrenchwench
My father was in the Navy, but stationed in Hawaii. Lucky bastard, he, and he knows it. He’s kind of apologetic about his service.
Yup. Dad was stateside training engineers. He said one day the guys sleeping on the top bunks got orders and the guys on the bottom bunks stayed at Ft. Knox. Of the one’s deployed very few came back.
He doesn’t refer to himself as a veteran even though he served honorably.
| 34 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:52:42am |
re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush says security pat downs are proof that the terrorist have won.
Seriously.
I guess all the concerts I went to in the 80s and 90s meant the terrorists won then too.
Since when has Rush (or most elected officials/pundits, for that matter) had to subnmit to a security pat-down?
| 35 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:52:43am |
re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush says security pat downs are proof that the terrorist have won.
Seriously.
I guess all the concerts I went to in the 80s and 90s meant the terrorists won then too.
The terrorists only won if the guards took your pot.
| 36 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:52:58am |
This has affected the stock market today.
Dow drops below 11,000 amid Korea clash
Wall Street tumbled Tuesday, pulling the Dow Jones industrial average below the 11,000 level, as fighting between North and South Korea, and ongoing worries about European debt, troubled investors.
| 37 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:53:01am |
re: #9 lawhawk
Also, to lawhawk’s point, from what I read on the situation online, it appears that after the shells started falling on the island, the South Koreans returned fire and they exchanged artillery barrages for the better part of two hours.
| 39 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:53:21am |
re: #35 JeffFX
The terrorists only won if the guards took your pot.
I was all about the contact buzz.
| 40 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:53:26am |
| 41 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:53:39am |
re: #34 Surabaya Stew
Since when has Rush (or most elected officials/pundits, for that matter) had to subnmit to a security pat-down?
I think he has to pay for his.
/
| 42 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:53:56am |
| 43 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:53:56am |
| 44 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:54:22am |
re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I was all about the contact buzz.
I don’t even like to smell it these days, but it was part of the concert experience for me back in the day.
| 45 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:55:42am |
An invasion of the North would be a disaster given how many civilians on both sides would die. This fact doesn’t seem to bother conservative pundits I guess.
| 46 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:56:09am |
re: #44 JeffFX
I don’t even like to smell it these days, but it was part of the concert experience for me back in the day.
I learned long ago I enjoyed the trappings of stonerdom with embracing the lifestyle.
| 47 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:56:32am |
re: #45 SpaceJesus
An invasion of the North would be a disaster given how many civilians on both sides would die. This fact doesn’t seem to bother conservative pundits I guess.
God loves a body count.
| 48 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:56:42am |
I have no earthly idea what to do about North Korea. Let’s hope some smart people make the right choices.
| 49 |
Gus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:57:12am |
re: #45 SpaceJesus
An invasion of the North would be a disaster given how many civilians on both sides would die. This fact doesn’t seem to bother
conservativechickenhawk pundits I guess.
FTFY
| 50 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:57:13am |
re: #10 Obdicut
The North is always in a stage of meltdown, and that’s one of the reasons that China wants to keep the regime in place - they fear that if the regime falls, the refugees head in China’s direction causing all kinds of problems. They’d much rather foist the problem on the South (and the US).
BTW, here’s the USFK website and the US has condemned the attack.
US troops were pulled off the DMZ under the Bush Administration and the overall number of troops was reduced - especially following the US invasion of Iraq (in 2004). The troops that are still stationed in South Korea are away from the border - and South Korean troops are the tripwire to trigger US assistance - primarily through air cover (100 aircraft and about 9,000 USAF personnel) and with a contingent of about 20,000 soldiers.
The ROK and U.S. governments have agreed to consolidate and relocate U.S. forces stationed in the ROK into two enduring hubs south
of Seoul; a southwest and southeast hub. The Southwest hub at Osan Air Base and U.S. Army Garrison Humphreys is to be the future centerpiece of the U.S. force structure within Korea. The southwest hub is already home to 7th Air Force headquarters and as U.S. forces realign south of the Han River, it will become home to the future U.S. KORCOM, 8th Army headquarters and 2nd Infantry Division. The Southeast hub at Daegu, Chinhae and Busan serve as the logistics distribution center and storage location for wartime and contingency preposition stocks. The two enduring hubs will be transformed into world-class enduring installations, promoting
the Republic of Korea as an “assignment of choice.”Two major ROK-U.S. bilateral agreements enable the consolidation and relocation effort: the 2002 Land Partnership Plan (LPP) and the 2004
Yongsan Relocation Plan (YRP). The LPP consolidates and relocates those U.S. forces north of the Han River, excluding forces from the greater Seoul metropolitan area, provides U.S. forces dedicated time on the ROK training areas and ranges, and ensures safety easements are provided and enforced. The YRP agreement relocates a majority of U.S. forces and UNC activities from Seoul to the USAG Humphreys. The YRP agreement also calls for a residual element to remain in Seoul to facilitate communications and maintain existing relationships with the ROK and other government and non-government agencies in the Seoul area.The implementation of these plans will be accomplished in two phases - Phase 1 Consolidation and Phase 2 Relocation. The ROK-U.S. Alliance is currently in Phase 1. As part of the U.S. relocation and camp consolidation
efforts, the U.S. has returned an approximately 13.6 thousand acres of land that has been vacated by U.S. forces.
(source is the October 2010 strategic digest) That doesn’t mean they wont be in danger if things go hot, but they aren’t likely to take the brunt of the first wave of attacks against the South.
| 51 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:57:19am |
re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I have no earthly idea what to do about North Korea. Let’s hope some smart people make the right choices.
I was just sitting here thinking of that. I know that something’s got to be done, but anything I can think of would probably result in a nuclear bomb going off somewhere, and that’s just plain unacceptable.
| 52 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:58:02am |
Ugh. This is very, very bad.
On an unrelated note: Charles, for some reason the site is regularly rejecting my login as incorrect, when I am positive it is correct. It just did it a few times, then let me in on the third try. I am 100% positive I typed it correctly. It has done this before. I have no idea why.
| 53 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:58:12am |
re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They took his pot.
Ah…Not what I know Vick for, so your comment threw me. I only have cat fights at my place, and I wish they’d settle into a new pecking order and calm down. No one should take anyone’s pot without permission, not even Michael Vick’s.
| 54 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:58:22am |
re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I have no earthly idea what to do about North Korea. Let’s hope some smart people make the right choices.
Unfortunately its an internal situation with external enablers that threatens to spill out all over the innocent. I don’t see a clean and lasting resolution short of their own leadership deciding their own people are worth more than their personal power.
| 55 |
Four More Tears Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:58:24am |
re: #45 SpaceJesus
An invasion of the North would be a disaster given how many civilians on both sides would die. This fact doesn’t seem to bother conservative pundits I guess.
I think if you kill 50 you get a free Medal of Honor…
| 56 |
PT Barnum Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:59:27am |
re: #55 JasonA
I think if you kill 50 you get a free Medal of Honor…
I would settle for discrediting conservative pundits (to the point that they have to become productive adults) rather than killing them.
| 58 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 9:59:48am |
After strike, SK leader calls for ‘enormous retaliation’ against NK
Hours after North Korea’s deadly artillery attacks Tuesday, South Korea’s president said “enormous retaliation” is needed to stop Pyongyang’s incitement, but international diplomats urgently appealed for restraint.
“The provocation this time can be regarded as an invasion of South Korean territory,” President Lee Myung-bak said at the headquarters of the Joint Chiefs of Staff here, according to South Korea’s Yonhap news agency.
| 59 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:00:01am |
As somebody mentioned, if NK feels actually threatened at any point, Seoul will be a cinder within minutes.
I wonder if Rush realizes he is calling for the deaths of millions of innocent civilians.
| 60 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:00:14am |
re: #52 Fozzie Bear
Ugh. This is very, very bad.
On an unrelated note: Charles, for some reason the site is regularly rejecting my login as incorrect, when I am positive it is correct. It just did it a few times, then let me in on the third try. I am 100% positive I typed it correctly. It has done this before. I have no idea why.
I guess you didn’t get the memo. /
| 61 |
Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:00:39am |
re: #58 Killgore Trout
And we’re in the midst of a free trade agreement with South Korea, right? That’s probably pissing China off.
| 62 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:01:24am |
re: #58 Killgore Trout
He’s under tremendous pressure militarily and politically to respond with force, but I expect the diplomats to cool things down. That will make it tougher for him politically, but will avert a wider conflict for now.
Of course, that very aversion to war means that the North will see this as yet another sign that their strategy of provocation works and will continue pressing their luck until the South does eventually respond.
| 63 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:01:55am |
re: #61 Obdicut
And we’re in the midst of a free trade agreement with South Korea, right? That’s probably pissing China off.
I think China would rather let us have this one than end up at war with half the world. China wants to cripple us economically. They have no interest in getting themselves nuked into the stone age in an actual physical war.
| 64 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:01:57am |
re: #57 jamesfirecat
Well f***, this won’t end well…
and as if on cue
re: #58 Killgore Trout
After strike, SK leader calls for ‘enormous retaliation’ against NK
| 65 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:02:23am |
re: #59 Fozzie Bear
He probably does, he just doesn’t care. Hatred of Obama is more important.
| 66 |
Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:02:33am |
Oh and since someone has to:
| 67 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:02:35am |
Obama to Call South Korea’s Lee After Attack by North Kills Two Soldiers
President Barack Obama will call his South Korean counterpart after North Korea fired artillery shells yesterday at an island near the disputed border between the two countries, in its worst attack on South Korea in at least eight months.
White House spokesman Bill Burton, who called the shelling “a particularly outrageous act,” said Obama plans to speak with South Korean President Lee Myung Bak about the incident, which killed two South Korean soldiers and set houses ablaze.
“North Korea has a habit of doing things that are provocative,” Burton told reporters traveling with Obama on Air Force One. “We’re going to continue doing everything that we need to do to make sure that we’re defending our ally South Korea and that there’s security and stability in the region.”
South Korea returned fire with 80 shells and scrambled fighter jets as Lee vowed to respond “sternly.” Local television channel YTN showed smoke billowing from Yeonpyeong island off South Korea’s northwest coast and said residents took cover in bomb shelters.
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has spoken with his South Korean counterpart, Burton said.
| 68 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:02:52am |
re: #62 lawhawk
I suspect you’re probably right.
| 69 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:03:19am |
re: #61 Obdicut
And we’re in the midst of a free trade agreement with South Korea, right? That’s probably pissing China off.
Its a plot to bring GM back to world dominance by vaporizing the Korean car market. Japan is next…
/late night talk show host sans tin foil hat
| 70 |
Gus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:05:25am |
re: #63 Fozzie Bear
I think China would rather let us have this one than end up at war with half the world. China wants to cripple us economically. They have no interest in getting themselves nuked into the stone age in an actual physical war.
Why would China want to cripple us economically? That really doesn’t make any fiscal sense consider they exported 220.8 billion dollars of products to the USA in 2009.
| 71 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:05:50am |
re: #59 Fozzie Bear
As somebody mentioned, if NK feels actually threatened at any point, Seoul will be a cinder within minutes.
Don’t we have Patriot Missiles in SK? I would think we have something there to blast those nukes out of the sky if it comes to that.
| 72 |
Four More Tears Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:06:32am |
re: #56 PT Barnum
I would settle for discrediting conservative pundits (to the point that they have to become productive adults) rather than killing them.
I was referring to civilians and the notion that the MoH has been “feminized.”
| 73 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:06:54am |
re: #65 SpaceJesus
He probably does, he just doesn’t care. Hatred of Obama is more important.
Plus I’m sure he doesn’t expect his call for mass slaughter to be followed. It’s all about maintaining the illusion that Obama is weak in the Republican anti-reality bubble.
| 74 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:07:04am |
Even the best case scenario, that this somehow brings down the chia pet dictator, has enormous problems.
They’ve spent 60 years killing off anyone who might actually have the leadership skills to run that country. The people aren’t capable of self-government.
| 75 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:07:32am |
Huckabee To Obama: Let’s See The TSA Caress & Screen Your Wife, Kids, & Mother In Public!
| 76 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:08:10am |
Seoul has a population of roughly 10 million, with another 14 million in the surrounding suburbs.
North Korea has literally thousands of artillery peices, rockets and other weapons pointed at Seoul across the border over a front of miles in reinforced firing positions.
There is no way to neutralize those weapons before they decimate Seoul.
So who wants to go down in history as the man who sentenced Seoul to death?
| 77 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:08:20am |
| 78 |
PT Barnum Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:08:46am |
re: #72 JasonA
I was referring to civilians and the notion that the MoH has been “feminized.”
Oh..I knew that…guess that shows who I’d rather do away with, doesn’t it?
| 79 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:09:37am |
re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush is already complaining that all Obama has done is talk and hasn’t authorized a complete invasion of North Korea yet.
Fuck nut.
We’re gonna invade? Is Rush volunteering?
| 80 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:10:17am |
re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist
We’re gonna invade? Is Rush volunteering?
He’ll be in command of the Elite 101rst Chairborn division…
| 81 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:10:21am |
Meanwhile, there are reports that Kim Jung Un is using this incident (or gave the orders to instigate the incident) to consolidate power. I’m not quite buying that one, but if that is indeed the case, then Jong Un is just as mad/nuts/insane as his father and grandfather before him and the North Koreans are in for a continuation of the same insane policies that have turned the Hermit Kingdom into a gulag archipelago.
More here.
| 82 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:10:35am |
re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Seoul has a population of roughly 10 million, with another 14 million in the surrounding suburbs.
North Korea has literally thousands of artillery peices, rockets and other weapons pointed at Seoul across the border over a front of miles in reinforced firing positions.
There is no way to neutralize those weapons before they decimate Seoul.So who wants to go down in history as the man who sentenced Seoul to death?
take down NKs command and control, deal with the arty piecemeal and hope for as little devastation as possible…I dunno, we’ve discussed this before and there is never a satisfactory plan or conclusion
| 83 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:10:36am |
re: #70 Gus 802
Why would China want to cripple us economically? That really doesn’t make any fiscal sense consider they exported 220.8 billion dollars of products to the USA in 2009.
Well, lets see.
Their trade policy is extremely protectionist, even while ours is rather open.
Their monetary policy is seemingly designed to guarantee that they can be a net exporter without ever being an attractive market to export to.
They are aggressively hacking our infrastructure, on a regular basis, rerouting crtitical traffic through China. They make no effort to limit private efforts at hacking into systems outside China, and there is ample evidence that the government of China has invested heavily into infiltrating our government agencies as well as private businesses, electronically.
My small apache server at home is the recipient of about 20 simple hacking attempts per day, and my ssh server is attacked with brute-force attacks every few weeks. Every single one of them originated in China.
China is not our ally.
| 84 |
Gus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:11:09am |
re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist
We’re gonna invade? Is Rush volunteering?
Yep. We can air drop him from a C-17. He can be one of the pathfinders. I can see it now. He’ll need a whole palette of food and wine to keep him going.
/
| 85 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:11:31am |
re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Seoul has a population of roughly 10 million, with another 14 million in the surrounding suburbs.
North Korea has literally thousands of artillery peices, rockets and other weapons pointed at Seoul across the border over a front of miles in reinforced firing positions.
There is no way to neutralize those weapons before they decimate Seoul.
So who wants to go down in history as the man who sentenced Seoul to death?
That would be Kim Jong-il.
| 86 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:11:42am |
re: #59 Fozzie Bear
As somebody mentioned, if NK feels actually threatened at any point, Seoul will be a cinder within minutes.
I wonder if Rush realizes he is calling for the deaths of millions of innocent , brown, foreign, civilians.
FTFY
| 87 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:11:46am |
re: #82 albusteve
take down NKs command and control, deal with the arty piecemeal and hope for as little devastation as possible…I dunno, we’ve discussed this before and there is never a satisfactory plan or conclusion
And if the artillery sites have a standing order to open fire in the event of a communications loss?
| 88 |
Jadespring Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:11:58am |
re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist
We’re gonna invade? Is Rush volunteering?
He should at least offer to pay for it.
I mean and invasion costs money and with all the screaming about debt, debt, debt and don’t you dare raise taxes….
Show me the money Rushbo!
| 89 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:12:28am |
re: #81 lawhawk
Meanwhile, there are reports that Kim Jung Un is using this incident (or gave the orders to instigate the incident) to consolidate power. I’m not quite buying that one, but if that is indeed the case, then Jong Un is just as mad/nuts/insane as his father and grandfather before him and the North Koreans are in for a continuation of the same insane policies that have turned the Hermit Kingdom into a gulag archipelago.
More here.
Yeah, I read that on Wiki when I went to read up on the incident. Not that I believe everything Wiki says, by a long shot, but at least it is a good collection point for all the reports or rumors flying about.
| 90 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:12:47am |
| 91 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:13:04am |
maybe the south koreans could evacuate their border cities before attacking? is that even logistically possible?
| 92 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:13:44am |
re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
True, but the deaths wouldn’t be on his conscience.
He would need to have one. I doubt he knows what a conscience is.
| 93 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:13:49am |
re: #82 albusteve
take down NKs command and control, deal with the arty piecemeal and hope for as little devastation as possible…I dunno, we’ve discussed this before and there is never a satisfactory plan or conclusion
If we take down the command and control doesn’t that also effectively mean eliminating the people in charge of the nation… and if we do that doesn’t mean we’re gonna have to try and put NK back together again when all is said and done?
Not that I’m saying we can’t do either of the above, just want to make sure I’ve got a firm grip on what consequences certain actions might have.
| 94 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:13:52am |
re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
True, but the deaths wouldn’t be on his conscience.
They can’t be on his conscience. He doesn’t have one.
| 95 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:13:57am |
i dont read enough tom clancy novels to know
| 96 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:14:04am |
re: #91 SpaceJesus
maybe the south koreans could evacuate their border cities before attacking? is that even logistically possible?
The North would take that as a sign that military operations were about to commence and begin firing.
| 97 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:14:11am |
re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
L’il Kim hasn’t cared one whit about the deaths of millions of his own people in famines and economically ruinous policies, so he wont care about killing millions of South Koreans. He still thinks that he’s the legitimate voice for all Koreans, and wont stop until reunification occurs on his terms.
His son seems to be more of the same.
| 98 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:14:26am |
re: #84 Gus 802
Yep. We can air drop him from a C-17. He can be one of the pathfinders. I can see it now. He’ll need a whole palette of food and wine to keep him going.
/
I was thinking he could feed a whole labor camp. I don’t mean to be unkind about his weight—I could probably also feed a lot of people…
| 99 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:14:54am |
re: #91 SpaceJesus
maybe the south koreans could evacuate their border cities before attacking? is that even logistically possible?
That would be roughly like evacuating New York City. All of it.
| 100 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:15:36am |
re: #87 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
And if the artillery sites have a standing order to open fire in the event of a communications loss?
I find it difficult to see any endgame to the ongoing Korean standoff that doesn’t involve a lot of death. I think it’s going to get a lot worse there before it gets better, and I really hope I’m wrong.
| 101 |
HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:15:53am |
re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Seoul has a population of roughly 10 million, with another 14 million in the surrounding suburbs.
North Korea has literally thousands of artillery peices, rockets and other weapons pointed at Seoul across the border over a front of miles in reinforced firing positions.
There is no way to neutralize those weapons before they decimate Seoul.
So who wants to go down in history as the man who sentenced Seoul to death?
I would hope that every artillery position has been marked by GPS years ago.. I would hope war doesn’t break out..But I think fixed artillery pieces would be dead meat in a hot war..
| 102 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:16:19am |
re: #91 SpaceJesus
maybe the south koreans could evacuate their border cities before attacking? is that even logistically possible?
Too much Seoul and urban sprawl, I believe.
| 103 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:16:48am |
There isn’t any way to attack NK without killing millions in the process. None. They are far too well dug in to avoid that outcome in the event of an attack.
Since nobody wants to be the one to trigger that outcome, diplomacy really is the only option.
That’s just how it is.
| 104 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:17:06am |
re: #91 SpaceJesus
maybe the south koreans could evacuate their border cities before attacking? is that even logistically possible?
Sadly if I apply James Bond evil villain logic to NK I’d say that if they saw an evacuation starting they’d open fire with whatever they had while some civies were still in range, then if they bother with any sort of denial it would be about making sure SK couldn’t use those now evacuated areas as staging grounds for an attack….
| 105 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:17:36am |
seoul already has a large amount of underground space. maybe it’s possible to make more so that the people can hide underground?
| 106 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:17:50am |
re: #91 SpaceJesus
Cities within range of the DMZ include Seoul, with a population of 8 million in the metropolitan area. It simply isn’t feasible to engage in such a disruption - and heck, the North could intimate a conflict and induce that kind of evacuation just to screw with the South’s economy. It might be possible to evacuate some of the smaller villages and towns in proximity to the DMZ, but the population is most dense nearest to Seoul.
| 107 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:18:24am |
re: #101 HoosierHoops
I would hope that every artillery position has been marked by GPS years ago.. I would hope war doesn’t break out..But I think fixed artillery pieces would be dead meat in a hot war..
Bunkers with artillery on rail tracks built into mountains. It would take days to find and destroy them all.
Stalin was right when he said quantity had a quality all its own.
| 108 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:18:34am |
re: #105 SpaceJesus
seoul already has a large amount of underground space. maybe it’s possible to make more so that the people can hide underground?
I doubt they have enough underground space and supplies to fit millions of people and feed them long enough to wait out a nuclear exchange and the resulting fallout.
| 109 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:18:39am |
re: #101 HoosierHoops
I would hope that every artillery position has been marked by GPS years ago.. I would hope war doesn’t break out..But I think fixed artillery pieces would be dead meat in a hot war..
Not necessarily. If they are properly buried and reinforced, it’d take something on the scale of a nuclear bomb to even make a dent in the defensive structure. SK doesn’t have immediate access to the bunker-busters and other high penetration weapons they’d need to initiate a defensive strike, and there’s no way the air power they - and we - have in the area is sufficient to hit them all before some major damage was done to Seoul and other urban areas.
| 110 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:19:45am |
re: #108 Fozzie Bear
I doubt they have enough underground space and supplies to fit millions of people and feed them long enough to wait out a nuclear exchange and the resulting fallout.
Once again I realize that I’m a bad person because my gut reaction is to start busting out Doctor Strangelove jokes in response to the above post….
| 111 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:19:52am |
re: #103 Fozzie Bear
There isn’t any way to attack NK without killing millions in the process. None. They are far too well dug in to avoid that outcome in the event of an attack.
Since nobody wants to be the one to trigger that outcome, diplomacy really is the only option.
That’s just how it is.
They’ve been working on it for decades. So far diplomacy has not done anything but given the Norks more time to build nukes. Iran is headed in the same direction.
| 112 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:20:10am |
re: #109 thedopefishlives
Not necessarily. If they are properly buried and reinforced, it’d take something on the scale of a nuclear bomb to even make a dent in the defensive structure. SK doesn’t have immediate access to the bunker-busters and other high penetration weapons they’d need to initiate a defensive strike, and there’s no way the air power they - and we - have in the area is sufficient to hit them all before some major damage was done to Seoul and other urban areas.
A nuclear strike used to destroy the NK weapons would do the job of devastating Seoul for them.
| 113 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:20:23am |
It is times like these when I wonder about the efficacy of assassinating foreign leaders.
| 114 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:20:32am |
re: #111 NJDhockeyfan
They’ve been working on it for decades. So far diplomacy has not done anything but given the Norks more time to build nukes. Iran is headed in the same direction.
Well, if you want a nuclear war, then by all means, advocate for attacking NK openly.
| 115 |
Gus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:20:49am |
re: #113 DaddyG
It is times like these when I wonder about the efficacy of assassinating foreign leaders.
Wouldn’t make a difference.
| 116 |
rwdflynavy Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:21:07am |
re: #84 Gus 802
Yep. We can air drop him from a C-17. He can be one of the pathfinders. I can see it now. He’ll need a whole palette of food and wine to keep him going.
/
A pallet to feed his palette.
//
| 117 |
DaddyG Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:21:25am |
re: #115 Gus 802
Wouldn’t make a difference.
True Dat. There will always be a tin pot dictator to step in and make things worse.
| 118 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:21:52am |
re: #115 Gus 802
If ‘Lil Kim and his family were taken out? You don’t think it would help?
| 119 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:21:58am |
re: #108 Fozzie Bear
yeah, the dirty bombs are certainly an issue. there’s really no way to do this
| 120 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:22:06am |
re: #114 Fozzie Bear
Well, if you want a nuclear war, then by all means, advocate for attacking NK openly.
Who wants a nuclear war besides the North Korean government?
| 121 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:22:21am |
re: #112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
A nuclear strike used to destroy the NK weapons would do the job of devastating Seoul for them.
Well, yeah. That’s why I said “on the order of a nuclear strike”. It would take a lot of firepower to penetrate a properly implemented artillery bunker - we learned that lesson the hard way in WWII, when days of naval shelling with the big 14- and 16-inch guns of our battleships failed to penetrate the Japanese prepared defenses in the Pacific.
| 122 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:23:03am |
re: #120 NJDhockeyfan
Who wants a nuclear war besides the North Korean government?
Anybody who says we should invade or attack NK, is essentially saying “hey, lets get every man woman and child in Seoul vaporized”. That would be the result.
| 123 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:24:11am |
re: #113 DaddyG
It is times like these when I wonder about the efficacy of assassinating foreign leaders.
There are too many things wrong with NK for killing any one man to make a difference.
| 124 |
Gus Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:24:14am |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If ‘Lil Kim and his family were taken out? You don’t think it would help?
It would probably make matters worse since it would obviously be an act of aggression. Anyway, he’d be replaced by another family member and the military leadership would remain in place. The NORK ideology runs deeper than old Kim.
| 125 |
iossarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:25:42am |
re: #116 rwdflynavy
A pallet to feed his palette.
//
He can draw from an extensive palate of culinary experiences.
| 126 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:25:50am |
re: #121 thedopefishlives
Well, yeah. That’s why I said “on the order of a nuclear strike”. It would take a lot of firepower to penetrate a properly implemented artillery bunker - we learned that lesson the hard way in WWII, when days of naval shelling with the big 14- and 16-inch guns of our battleships failed to penetrate the Japanese prepared defenses in the Pacific.
Even if we mobilized all our air assets, which the North Koreans would take as a sign of aggression and begin firing before they got in place to strike, it would still take hours, if not days, to destroy the guns.
| 128 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:26:40am |
My point is, as bad as NK is, just attacking them is NOT a good plan. The best hope we have is that NK eats itself from the inside out. It’s also not that unlikely an outcome, really. NK is as unstable as it is unhinged.
I know it doesn’t sound like a great approach, and it isn’t. It sucks. But it is the best option in the real world, where real actions cost real lives. On paper, it’s easy to justify a certain body count. In reality, there would be a LOT of innocent people killed, and the political and economic fallout (not to mention nuclear) would be immense.
| 129 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:26:48am |
| 130 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:26:54am |
| 131 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:27:00am |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If ‘Lil Kim and his family were taken out? You don’t think it would help?
As we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, you need to have local leaders willing to step up and do the right thing when the power vacuum is created, which is extremely rare. I think NK would have reformed by now if it was going to. They have a great example of freedom and prosperity in SK, but the tyrants still control the north.
| 132 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:27:43am |
re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Even if we mobilized all our air assets, which the North Koreans would take as a sign of aggression and begin firing before they got in place to strike, it would still take hours, if not days, to destroy the guns.
My point exactly.
| 133 |
iossarian Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:27:54am |
re: #130 jamesfirecat
In what respect?
Mustaches really do make you look manly (and conceal your draft-dodging cowardice).
| 134 |
jayzee Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:28:34am |
re: #130 jamesfirecat
For criticizing the bs agreement arranged under the second term of Bush. And that the N Koreans would go this route.
| 135 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:28:42am |
re: #133 iossarian
Mustaches really do make you look manly (and conceal your draft-dodging cowardice).
Can could dust a television set with that thing….
| 136 |
Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:30:36am |
re: #134 jayzee
He predicted North Korea would engage in sporadic attacks on South Korea? What a wizard!
| 137 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:30:53am |
re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Seoul has a population of roughly 10 million, with another 14 million in the surrounding suburbs.
North Korea has literally thousands of artillery peices, rockets and other weapons pointed at Seoul across the border over a front of miles in reinforced firing positions.
There is no way to neutralize those weapons before they decimate Seoul.
So who wants to go down in history as the man who sentenced Seoul to death?
I addressed this in May, with the facts, references, and maps to back it up: The danger to Seoul from Nork artillery is real but vastly exaggerated, a propaganda meme.
| 138 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:31:36am |
re: #128 Fozzie Bear
My point is, as bad as NK is, just attacking them is NOT a good plan. The best hope we have is that NK eats itself from the inside out. It’s also not that unlikely an outcome, really. NK is as unstable as it is unhinged.
They’re likely to lash out in their death spasms. There may be just as much death from an internal collapse as from an attack by the west, but at least we won’t have caused it.
| 139 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:31:55am |
re: #136 Obdicut
He predicted North Korea would engage in sporadic attacks on South Korea? What a wizard!
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
What are the odds?
| 140 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:32:10am |
re: #134 jayzee
For criticizing the bs agreement arranged under the second term of Bush. And that the N Koreans would go this route.
I wouldn’t take Bolton possibly having been right about one thing as an indication of his genius. This is the same Bolton who rabidly advocated for invading Iraq. Yeah, that turned out to be a brilliant move. /
Bolton’s default position is to bomb first, then assess risk later. The man is an idiot.
| 141 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:33:15am |
re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist
I was thinking he could feed a whole labor camp. I don’t mean to be unkind about his weight—I could probably also feed a lot of people…
I do mean to be unkind.
Rush the Hutt perfectly embodies the ugliness of his soul in his body. It isn’t just a matter of his obesity. It is that he represents everything vile about an aging hateful paragon of greed, lies, agitprop and bigotry in his form, from his sneer, to his arrogant voice, to his jiggly jowls, to his massive vinegary man breasts.
| 142 |
laZardo Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:34:36am |
“Nervous? In 5 billion years the sun will burn out and nothing you did will matter. Feel better?”
- The ShitMyDadSays Dad
Night folks.
| 143 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:35:01am |
Okay Japan, what the fuck, you’ve had like twenty five years to build Voltron. Now when the world finally needs your strange obsession with giant robotic leonine gestalts you’ve got nuthin’.
| 144 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:35:16am |
re: #137 Shiplord Kirel
I addressed this in May, with the facts, references, and maps to back it up: The danger to Seoul from Nork artillery is real but vastly exaggerated, a propaganda meme.
I agree with you that its going to end in a shooting war, but the fact remains that no one sane on our side wants to be the guy who decides to sacrifice Seoul, no matter what threat the artillery actually produces.
| 145 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:35:54am |
M*A*S*H*
Modern American Security Headache
| 146 |
thedopefishlives Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:35:57am |
re: #143 goddamnedfrank
Okay Japan, what the fuck, you’ve had like twenty five years to build Voltron. Now when the world finally needs your strange obsession with giant robotic leonine gestalts you’ve got nuthin’.
You, sir, win the thread.
| 147 |
jayzee Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:36:05am |
re: #136 Obdicut
He predicted North Korea would engage in sporadic attacks on South Korea? What a wizard!
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Not just that, that they would ignore the nuke agreement and ramp up their nuke capabilities. You don’t think this attack is unique? A three hour artillery barrage? Or the sinking of the ship?
I’m sure it’s gonna be just fine.
| 148 |
Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:37:23am |
re: #147 jayzee
I’m sure it’s gonna be just fine.
You’re trying to have an argument with a position I’m not holding.
My position is that Bolton was in absolutely no way unique in his predictions of continued North Korea aggression.
What did he actually propose as an alternative?
| 149 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:38:12am |
| 150 |
laZardo Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:38:53am |
re: #143 goddamnedfrank
Okay Japan, what the fuck, you’ve had like twenty five years to build Voltron. Now when the world finally needs your strange obsession with giant robotic leonine gestalts you’ve got nuthin’.
Blame Article 9.
| 151 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:39:19am |
Not only that, but when was the last time that any action Bolton advocated, when actually tried, worked out the way he predicted? Never?
| 152 |
Kragar Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:40:44am |
re: #151 Fozzie Bear
Not only that, but when was the last time that any action Bolton advocated, when actually tried, worked out the way he predicted? Never?
Well, the Vodka Tonics he ordered got him a night with Pam…
| 153 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:44:27am |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If ‘Lil Kim and his family were taken out? You don’t think it would help?
Then they’d be martyrs for whichever General stepped up to become the new glorious leader.
As for that chickenhawk-in-chief Rush, the less said the better as I don’t want to break the rules.
| 154 |
theheat Tue, Nov 23, 2010 11:59:38am |
This is one of those ugly aggravating things, done just to aggravate us. As much as you’d want to stomp the Norks into the dirt, it’s simply not practical, not to mention it’s potentially world threatening. It might explain why we’ve differed to talking them to death the past several years, rather than bombing them into oblivion.
There’s nothing simple about this. Possibly my only consolation is that Obama is the president, and not some knee-jerk rah-rah you betchya empty head end times POS.
| 155 |
webevintage Tue, Nov 23, 2010 12:19:10pm |
re: #59 Fozzie Bear
As somebody mentioned, if NK feels actually threatened at any point, Seoul will be a cinder within minutes.
I wonder if Rush realizes he is calling for the deaths of millions of innocent civilians.
I don’t think Rush really cares….
| 156 |
celticdragon Tue, Nov 23, 2010 1:22:25pm |
re: #101 HoosierHoops
I would hope that every artillery position has been marked by GPS years ago.. I would hope war doesn’t break out..But I think fixed artillery pieces would be dead meat in a hot war..
They have hardened, granite shelters they back into on train tracks to avoid counter battery fire.
| 157 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Nov 23, 2010 7:12:47pm |
re: #23 Obdicut
I meant if the government actually simply collapses at some point. I can see it happening during the transition, with the leaders simply fleeing with money to some corrupt little island, leaving the rest of the world to deal with the mess they’ve left behind.
That wouldn’t exactly be a humanitarian crisis. It would be an opportunity, all of a sudden, to do something about a humanitarian disaster that is not a problem because problems have solutions, or at least somebody thinks they do, and the disaster that NK has become is beyond solution.
If the leadership of NK were ever to want out, I’d be in favor of giving them enough money to get drunk on Unobtainium Liqueurs every day for the rest of their lives. And any other dissipation or entertainment that’s remotely legal. Plus heroin if they want that. Plus uniformed attendants, guards, the works.
The last old-style pseudo-dictatorial president of the Philippines, Marcos, got a retirement package of sorts.
Trouble is, they’re sadists and they need a whole nation to whip. And they’ve got it.
| 158 |
RogueOne Wed, Nov 24, 2010 3:31:45am |
re: #45 SpaceJesus
An invasion of the North would be a disaster given how many civilians on both sides would die. This fact doesn’t seem to bother conservative pundits I guess.
I’m not being snarky but which is better, tens of thousands of deaths now or another million slow deaths later?
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