Joe Scarborough to GOP: ‘Man Up’ and Confront the Idiot Half-Governor

Politics • Views: 38,142

In an opinion column for Politico, conservative MSNBC host Joe Scarborough rips Sarah Palin, and calls on the GOP to “man up” and confront the populist right wing icon.

I hope he isn’t holding his breath.

This is one Republican who would prefer that the former half-term governor promote her reality shows and hawk her books without demeaning the reputations of Presidents Reagan and Bush. These great men dedicated their lives to public service and are too good to be fodder for her gaudy circus sideshow.

If Republicans want to embrace Palin as a cultural icon whose anti-intellectualism fulfills a base political need, then have at it. I suppose it’s cheaper than therapy.

But if the party of Ronald Reagan, Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio wants to return to the White House anytime soon, it’s time that Republican leaders started standing up and speaking the truth to Palin.

It’s not going to happen. Scarborough is dreaming.

Sarah Palin is the best representative of the GOP in the 21st century: ignorant and proud of it. But focusing on Sarah Palin misses the point; she’s not the problem. She’s just one of the most obvious symptoms.

Jump to bottom

374 comments
1 lostlakehiker  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:41:53am

Hear, hear.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:42:07am

It would probably be quicker if Scarborough did it himself.

3 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:43:46am

It’s not going to happen. Scarborough is dreaming.

Sarah Palin is the best representative of the GOP in the 21st century - ignorant and proud of it.

4 insanity police  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:44:52am

Sarah Palin is always speaking in talking points. If she has to go off script she reveals her stupidity. You can’t read off your hand if you want to be President! I’d rather have Snookie for President.

5 researchok  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:45:29am

This is a really good article. Really substantive as opposed to the usual over the top hit pieces.

6 insanity police  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:46:29am

Palin’s daughter making it so far on Dancing with the Stars was a little glimpse into Sarah Palin’s rabid fan base. That is not spoken of enough. Palin is a dummy, but her followers and supporters are ravenous, vicious, and more ignorant than Palin.

7 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:46:33am

This had better be the part where they start eating each other alive.

Whichever of “literally” or “metaphorically” the GOP ends up doing.

8 researchok  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:47:50am

re: #7 laZardo

This had better be the part where they start eating each other alive.

Whichever of “literally” or “metaphorically” the GOP ends up doing.

Eventually, that will happen- and that’s not a bad thing. The GOP needs to return to sanity.

9 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:48:18am

Headin to bed. Nighty.

10 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:48:57am

re: #8 researchok

Eventually, that will happen- and that’s not a bad thing. The GOP needs to return to sanity.

Less likely, but I’m hoping anyway, it will finally bring America to the global political “center.”

11 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:49:54am

Scarborough is never going to get promoted to Fox if he keeps this up.

12 bluecheese  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:50:12am

lol. I read through the WHOLE comment section in the top recommended palin diary over at redstate yesterday.

I simply cannot stop rubbernecking the train wreck that is The Quittah.

13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:51:32am

re: #12 bluecheese

That’s why I don’t go to other sites.

14 bluecheese  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:53:48am

re: #13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That’s why I don’t go to other sites.

Oh, idk, reading that thread was pure entertainment for me.

good stuff. lol

15 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:53:55am

I hope he wasn’t invoking Paul Ryan as a figure to be emulated. His economic “ideas” are not at all consistent with reality.

16 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:56:56am

re: #14 bluecheese

Oh, idk, reading that thread was pure entertainment for me.

good stuff. lol

Headed over now, with my cup of coffee.

17 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:56:58am

re: #15 Fozzie Bear

I hope he wasn’t invoking Paul Ryan as a figure to be emulated. His economic “ideas” are not at all consistent with reality.

Or Marco Rubio for that matter.

18 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:57:53am

re: #15 Fozzie Bear

re: #17 Varek Raith

Those Republicans can not see with all that star dust in their eyes.

19 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:58:37am

re: #15 Fozzie Bear

I hope he wasn’t invoking Paul Ryan as a figure to be emulated. His economic “ideas” are not at all consistent with reality.

Same with Marco Rubio, a creationist AGW-denier. If Joe Scarborough really meant to praise someone who basically holds the same opinions as Palin but is more slick in how he presents him, I wonder how much this so-called column of his is really worth (i.e. attacking a mere symptom of GOP insanity rather than the disease)

20 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:59:49am

Scarborough just wants to live in a less hostile fantasy land than Palin. That doesn’t make you any better, Joe. Either deal with reality, or shut the fuck up and join Palin in imaginationland.

21 Stanley Sea  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:04:23am

re: #16 prairiefire

Headed over now, with my cup of coffee.

Lol PF - you have the stitches photo!

22 SteveMcGazi  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:04:39am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Scarborough is never going to get promoted to Fox if he keeps this up.

Sure, he’ll be the token liberal.

23 SteveMcGazi  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:08:10am

The GOP CAN’T refudiate her. The problem with the GOP isn’t Sarah Palin, it’s their anti-intellectualist core.

24 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:09:10am

OT:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

REBECCA BOONE, Associated Press

BOISE, Idaho - The surveillance video from the overhead cameras shows Hanni Elabed being beaten by a fellow inmate in an Idaho prison, managing to bang on a prison guard station window, pleading for help. Behind the glass, correctional officers look on, but no one intervenes when Elabed is knocked unconscious.

No one steps into the cellblock when the attacker sits down to rest, and no one stops him when he resumes the beating.

Videos of the attack obtained by The Associated Press show officers watching the beating for several minutes. The footage is a key piece of evidence for critics who claim the privately run Idaho Correctional Center uses inmate-on-inmate violence to force prisoners to snitch on their cellmates or risk being moved to extremely violent units.

Lawsuits from inmates contend the company that runs the prison, the Corrections Corporation of America, denies prisoners medical treatment as a way of covering up the assaults. They have dubbed the Idaho lockup “gladiator school” because it is so violent.

The AP initially sought a copy of the videos from state court, but Idaho 4th District Judge Patrick Owen denied that request. The AP decided to publish the videos after a person familiar with the case verified their authenticity.

The videos show at least three guards watching as Elabed was stomped on a dozen times. At no time during the recorded sequence did anyone try to pull away James Haver, a short, slight man.

About two minutes after Haver stopped the beating of his own accord, the metal cellblock door was unlocked. Haver was handcuffed and Elabed was examined for signs of life. He bled inside his skull and would spend three days in a coma.

CCA, the nation’s largest private prison company, said it was “highly disappointed and deeply concerned” over AP’s decision to release the videos.

There are some things the government should do, rather than private companies. The criminal justice system is one of those things.

25 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:09:26am

Are there enough “Balls” in the GOP to stand up to Sarah?
She’s tougher than any four of the “Men ” in the GOP!
Cage match!!
/
They need to “Reel” her in somehow!
…pun intended!

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:10:30am

A Sarah Palin fan.

27 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:23am

re: #23 stevemcg

The GOP CAN’T refudiate her. The problem with the GOP isn’t Sarah Palin, it’s their anti-intellectualist core.

Absolutely. That’s why I said Palin is the best representative of the modern GOP. She’s not the problem — she’s just one of the most obvious symptoms.

28 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:45am
29 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:45am

re: #25 reloadingisnotahobby

Other people in the GOP at least manage not to quit midway through their terms of office.

30 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:12:18am

re: #26 Charles

Never said she was smarter!
…just tougher!

31 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:13:06am

re: #30 reloadingisnotahobby

Tougher?
You call quitting her term as Governor and whining on twitter “tougher”?
Lol.

32 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:14:14am

re: #27 Charles

Absolutely. That’s why I said Palin is the best representative of the modern GOP. She’s not the problem — she’s just one of the most obvious symptoms.

If she were the problem, people within the GOP who criticize her wouldn’t be holding up people like Ryan and Rubio as examples of what they should be voting for.

If you think cutting taxes increases revenue, you don’t need better candidates, you need a basic economics education.

33 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:14:55am

re: #21 Stanley Sea

Lol PF - you have the stitches photo!

{{Stanley}} I think the photo is pre-stitches. I grabbed it off of yahoo images.

34 bluecheese  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:15:32am

Joe Scarborough is an idiot. This post of his comes across as juvenile, and incoherent.
WTF does a beauty contest have to do with anything?

35 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:16:23am

re: #34 bluecheese

Joe Scarborough is an idiot. This post of his comes across as juvenile, and incoherent.
WTF does a beauty contest have to do with anything?

He’s every bit as dumb as Palin, sadly.

36 Amory Blaine  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:16:49am

Paul Ryan? Really?

37 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:17:21am

That Palin has become the face of the GOP says as much about the GOP and its lack of moral fiber and incoherence on science and policy as it is about Palin’s savvy to take advantage of the situation to her own personal benefit.

38 Jack Burton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:18:25am

Biggest problem with the piece:

“Palin is not a stupid woman.”

Really Joe? I got over that belief a long time ago.

39 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:18:58am

re: #38 ArchangelMichael

Biggest problem with the piece:

“Palin is not a stupid woman.”

Really Joe? I got over that belief a long time ago.

But can you see it from your house?

40 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:21:00am

I am serious.

If Scarborough has something he wants said, he has air time to do so, which is more than I can have.

That’s the point of free speech is that if you feel there is a truth that must be spoken, you are free to do it. Scarborough also has the privelege of having a national media outlet to do it through. So, speak the truths you feel must be said, Joe. This is America. Let ‘er rip.

I’m not saying I agree with Palin, I’m just saying that telling other people what to say only works if you’re their mother, and then only if they are less than five years old, and even then it’s not too reliable.

41 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:21:26am

The hostility to “east coast intellectuals” which took root in the GOP decades ago had a logical endpoint: Palin.

Palin isn’t anything more than a symptom of rampant anti-intellectualism.

42 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:21:55am

re: #40 EmmmieG


Crud. Forgot to use spell check.

Privilege. One of my nemesis spelling words.

43 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:22:15am

There is simply nothing presidential about Sarah Palin. She views anyone who disagrees with her as an elitist socialist intelleectual blah blah. I agree with those who say she’s the symptom rather than the problem this said. Anti intellectualism was rampant in the Republican party before she came along.

44 Amory Blaine  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:22:32am

re: #41 Fozzie Bear

The hostility to “east coast intellectuals” which took root in the GOP decades ago had a logical endpoint: Palin.

Palin isn’t anything more than a symptom of rampant anti-intellectualism.

What if she ain’t the “endpoint”?

*shudder*

45 SteveMcGazi  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:22:59am

re: #34 bluecheese

Joe Scarborough is an idiot. This post of his comes across as juvenile, and incoherent.
WTF does a beauty contest have to do with anything?

Actually, I thinks he’s trying to provoke Palin into a response. The more she keeps flailing, the more ridiculous she looks. Even her most ardent supporters will start to flag. A guy in Scarborough’s position doesn’t have a whole lot of options. The GOP has no vision of a future. If you were going to try to start pushing the GOP in a different direction, you can’t just scream into the headwind of its anti-intellectualism. It has to be discredited. Off the cuff, I don’t know how Scarborough fits into that mindset, since I rarely hear him on MSNBC. So I guess my point is that if you were going to try to change the GOP, you might as well start with discrediting Sarah Palin.

46 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:00am

re: #41 Fozzie Bear

And Rubio’s disbelief in AGW is another logical endpoint of that anti-intellectualism, so Scarborough holding him up as some sort of antidote to Palin is weird.

Palin doesn’t seem that intelligent, really. Rubio does. For a smart person to adopt an anti-intellectual attitude is a lot shittier, to me, than for someone like Palin to do so.

47 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:07am

re: #41 Fozzie Bear


Palin isn’t anything more than a symptom of rampant anti-intellectualism.

I think she is a political fever blister, a symptom of cultural herpes.

48 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:16am

re: #44 Amory Blaine

What if she ain’t the “endpoint”?

*shudder*

Well, of course she isn’t, really. She’s just the end of the progrerssion from the perspective of now.

It’s going to get a lot worse.

49 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:24:36am

re: #42 EmmmieG

Crud. Forgot to use spell check.

Privilege. One of my nemesis spelling words.

Been there. Sympathize. If Charles shot people for typos, spell checker insanity and dunderheaded grammar errors, made in the heat of typing too quickly, I would be quite dead long ago.

50 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:24:50am

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

pimf. *progression*

(guys, I swear I really can spell. I just suck at typing.)

51 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:25:41am

Spell check is our nemesis.
As is Preview.
Never trust them.
/

52 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:25:42am

re: #46 Obdicut

And Rubio’s disbelief in AGW is another logical endpoint of that anti-intellectualism, so Scarborough holding him up as some sort of antidote to Palin is weird.

Palin doesn’t seem that intelligent, really. Rubio does. For a smart person to adopt an anti-intellectual attitude is a lot shittier, to me, than for someone like Palin to do so.

I have to agree. In that sense, Palin is a more “honest” creature. She has the excuse of mental incompetence.

53 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:29:40am

If Palin retired tomorrow and never got involved in politics again, the Republican Party would still be just as full of crazies and fanatics and anti-science morons as it is now. It wouldn’t change a thing.

54 Mongo only pawn... in game of life.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:29:41am

If he thinks Palin is the only sign of insanity in the GOP, he is not looking very far. It should be slapping him in the face every day.

55 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:30:02am

I hate to pimp for Jeb Bush but….
Jeb: ‘You can’t shut down the government’

Jeb Bush tells Newsmax that the conservative grassroots hopes of shutting down the government are “a little naive.”

“First of all, you can’t shut down the government. There are public safety, national security issues, that override a well-intended point, I’m sure, that government is way too big. Better to have a plan on how you reduce the debt by reducing the deficit. And that plan is out there,” he said.

Bush said, rather gently, that he’d side with his mother in her exchange with Sarah Palin, but he did praise Palin’s “incredible political instincts” and her ability to “get energy from the left’s opposition of her.”

It seems some of the adults are starting to pull their heads out of the sand.

56 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:31:30am

re: #53 Charles

If Palin retired tomorrow and never got involved in politics again, the Republican Party would still be just as full of crazies and fanatics and anti-science morons as it is now. It wouldn’t change a thing.

True. With the possible exception of Mitt the Republican front runners are all dangerous zealots.

57 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:32:00am

=re: #55 Killgore Trout

I hate to pimp for Jeb Bush but…
Jeb: ‘You can’t shut down the government’

It seems some of the adults are starting to pull their heads out of the sand.

I don’t see how anyone can praise her “political instincts.” Her senate endorsed candidates are probably what cost the Republicans the senate. Not that I’m complaining but Angle, O’Donnell, Buck, and some of the otehrs easily cost the Republicans the senate.

58 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:33:38am

re: #53 Charles

If Palin retired tomorrow and never got involved in politics again, the Republican Party would still be just as full of crazies and fanatics and anti-science morons as it is now. It wouldn’t change a thing.

I have to agree with this. The state attorney general here in Va, Ken Cuccinnelli is a right wing zealot from the same school of craziness and fanaticism. I imagine he has his eye own the governor’s mansion in a few years as McDonnell will be term limited and Lt Governor Bill Bolling has no ambitions beyond Lt Governor.

59 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:34:30am

OT: Cats Playing Patty-cake

60 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:36:07am

re: #53 Charles

If Palin retired tomorrow and never got involved in politics again, the Republican Party would still be just as full of crazies and fanatics and anti-science morons as it is now. It wouldn’t change a thing.

All too true.

At this point in time, morons like Barton, Inhofe, Bachman and the Pauls are vastly more dangerous. Even disgusting fossils like Orin Hatch look reasonable by comparison.

re: #55 Killgore Trout

“First of all, you can’t shut down the government. There are public safety, national security issues, that override a well-intended point, I’m sure, that government is way too big.

Well intended? My circumcised unit! I have reached a tolerance threshold for dissembling and calumny.

61 blueraven  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:37:59am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

OT: Cats Playing Patty-cake

[Video]

That’s funny!

62 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:38:48am

re: #60 LudwigVanQuixote

Well intended? My circumcised unit! I have reached a tolerance threshold for dissembling and calumny.

Speaking of which, a Class of 2004 denier troll is in your Page, cherry-picking its contents.

63 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:40:03am

re: #62 publicityStunted

Speaking of which, a Class of 2004 denier troll is in your Page, cherry-picking its contents.

Thanks for the heads up.

64 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:43:30am

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

OT:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]


There are some things the government should do, rather than private companies. The criminal justice system is one of those things.

I can tell you some of what is wrong with this picture…

Corrections employees are among the worst paid and highest stressed in government. DFCS workers come in close to the bottom in terms of jobs and pay too.

One of the things that motivates them is that they are doing something for the citizens of our state. Outsourcing this task to a private company takes away some of the identity and pride in doing a good job.

I have to give Georgia Department of Corrections kudos on their efforts to teach their employees that citizens are our customers (offenders or not) and that even the worst criminals can be treated with respect if nothing else. [Link: www.dcor.state.ga.us…]

65 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:43:53am

re: #63 LudwigVanQuixote

Now that you have a working throwaway email address, I’d highly recommend using the “Email all comments” feature for your Pages - makes it much easier to play whack-a-troll :)

66 bluecheese  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:46:01am

re: #45 stevemcg


So I guess my point is that if you were going to try to change the GOP, you might as well start with discrediting Sarah Palin.

That’s my point though. He does a piss poor job of trying to discredit her.

He is just throwing spitballs here, not addressing her qualifications that he criticizes by bringing up the irrelevant beauty contest.

67 garhighway  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:50:29am

OT: They’re having a Secession Ball in Charleston to celebrate the 150th anniversary of their attempt to leave the Union.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

68 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:52:06am

re: #67 garhighway

OT: They’re having a Secession Ball in Charleston to celebrate the 150th anniversary of their attempt to leave the Union.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Is that like having an “Invasion of Poland” party?
You know, without the Nazis?
Sheesh.

69 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:53:01am

re: #67 garhighway

In addition, the Sons of Confederate Veterans and some of its local chapters are preparing various television commercials that they hope to show next year. “All we wanted was to be left alone to govern ourselves,” says one ad from the group’s Georgia Division.

Those ads were really vile. They bought time on the History channel as I recall.

70 uncah91  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:53:22am

re: #66 bluecheese

That’s my point though. He does a piss poor job of trying to discredit her.

He is just throwing spitballs here, not addressing her qualifications that he criticizes by bringing up the irrelevant beauty contest.

What credentials?

Seriously. What credentials does she have. I think that is Scarborough’s point. Of course, he uses a misogynistic attack to make it. But that is his point.

71 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:53:35am

re: #67 garhighway

OT: They’re having a Secession Ball in Charleston to celebrate the 150th anniversary of their attempt to leave the Union.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

That’s wonderful. I’m having a party honoring General Sherman. Perhaps we could join venues? ///

72 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:54:13am

re: #67 garhighway

This is the start of a very good article I read in the library last week…

[Link: www.historynet.com…]

In short: “states rights to do what exactly?”

73 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:55:52am

Well, honoring the confederacy sort of makes sense for the party that idolizes Custer.

74 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:57:35am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

Well, honoring the confederacy sort of makes sense for the party that idolizes Custer.

Psssst… Custer was a Yankee. And a damn arrogant fool too.

75 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:58:18am

Some wingnuts have noticed Fox News is promoting 9-11 truthers…
Conservative media blast Napolitano’s Truther comments — will Fox respond?

A few people are complaining but I don’t think there’s enough outrage to force Fox to respond.

76 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:00:25am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

Well, honoring the confederacy sort of makes sense for the party that idolizes Custer.

huh?….how so?

77 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:11:54am

re: #65 publicityStunted

Now that you have a working throwaway email address, I’d highly recommend using the “Email all comments” feature for your Pages - makes it much easier to play whack-a-troll :)

I pointedly do not do that for that very reason. I do have to be productive sometimes.

However it felt good to go all Ludwig on him.

78 BongCrodny  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:12:23am

re: #55 Killgore Trout

I hate to pimp for Jeb Bush but…
Jeb: ‘You can’t shut down the government’

It seems some of the adults are starting to pull their heads out of the sand.


“Bush 2012. He can’t possibly be worse than the other two.”

79 apox  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:14:55am

See! Even the right is out of touch with the average American!

/

80 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:16:13am

Have just a short break to catch my breath. I popped over to Target and bought my grandson a digital camera for his Bar Mitzvah which is this Sunday.

The geeks have me set up with a dual monitor system, in addition to my own workstation, since this is what the previous guy had. It is wicked kewl.

81 allegro  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:20:24am

I had to roll my eyes at Krauthammer’s assertion of the left’s obsession with Palin. My only obsession of late is to have a Palin free day, but alas it seems impossible. If I come here or visit some other political-type venue, I get that my odds of seeing her face or hearing her name are high. That’s my choice whether or not to be exposed.

However….

I turn on my guilty pleasure of Dancing with the Stars for a bit of mindless diversion - there she is every freaking week. I turned on the local news last night to see the weather - there she is again, coming to town apparently. I just want to check my Yahoo email - yup, looking right at me. I’m watching a cooking show and up pops an ad for her Alaska show - there she is again! It’s like a stinking, poisonous black mold that is creeping into every corner.

Make. It. STOP!!

83 APox  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:23:37am

Jesus, I don’t think there is ANYTHING I can find in common with the large majority of the right that identify with beck and limbaugh…..

They are even against net neutrality?! Government takeover?! Just fucking dumb: [Link: mediamatters.org…]

84 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:24:37am

re: #81 allegro

I turn on my guilty pleasure of Dancing with the Stars for a bit of mindless diversion - there she is every freaking week.

Exactly! It’s the only shallow, frivolous reality show I watch, for the ostensible purposes of taking my mind off the sorry state of the world. And the jerkwad producers had to go and politicize it, first with Delay, then with Bristol. Who are they going to dump on us next, Gingrich? o_O

85 allegro  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:25:53am

re: #84 publicityStunted

Exactly! It’s the only shallow, frivolous reality show I watch, for the ostensible purposes of taking my mind off the sorry state of the world. And the jerkwad producers had to go and politicize it, first with Delay, then with Bristol. Who are they going to dump on us next, Gingrich? o_O

So you haven’t heard the rumor? Ann Coulter.

*running screaming into the horizon*

86 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:26:31am

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Tea Party!Assange: I’m Influenced by “American libertarianism, market libertarianism”

He says, “A perfect market requires perfect information.” So free markets require free information. Anarcho-capitalism!

87 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:28:46am

re: #80 Alouette

Have just a short break to catch my breath. I popped over to Target and bought my grandson a digital camera for his Bar Mitzvah which is this Sunday.

The geeks have me set up with a dual monitor system, in addition to my own workstation, since this is what the previous guy had. It is wicked kewl.

Mazel Tov! Interesting discussion in CL’s thread too!

88 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:29:17am

I’m referring to thisre: #83 APox

Jesus, I don’t think there is ANYTHING I can find in common with the large majority of the right that identify with beck and limbaugh…

They are even against net neutrality?! Government takeover?! Just fucking dumb: [Link: mediamatters.org…]


What could possibly go wrong with ISP’s being allowed to selectively block internet traffic? I mean, this is all about freedom… oh… wait… nevermind.

89 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:30:31am

re: #88 Fozzie Bear

Once again, ignore anything I type before the quoted part. It’s becoming a sort of habit for me to mangle posts.

90 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:31:48am

Seriously, though, Net Neutrality is an extremely important issue. If corporations are allowed to filter the internet, we are seriously fucked.

91 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:33:54am

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Tea Party!Assange: I’m Influenced by “American libertarianism, market libertarianism”

So anyone that says they are “influenced by American libertarianism and market libertarianism” is automatically a Tea Party member?

92 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:35:22am

re: #91 Gus 802

So anyone that says they are “influenced by American libertarianism and market libertarianism” is automatically a Tea Party member?

No but its a fun way to pile on the demon of the week!

93 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:36:21am

re: #92 Fozzie Bear

No but its a fun way to pile on the demon of the week!

Which one? Assange or the Tea Party?

94 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:37:57am

re: #93 Gus 802

Which one? Assange or the Tea Party?

Yes.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:39:04am

re: #30 reloadingisnotahobby

Never said she was smarter!
…just tougher!

Tougher? In what sense?

96 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:39:36am

re: #91 Gus 802

So anyone that says they are “influenced by American libertarianism and market libertarianism” is automatically a Tea Party member?

Yes, It’s part of the radical libertarian philosophy popularized by the Tea Party. Ron Paul, Alex Jones and Fox News hos Andrew Napolitano love wikileaks and Assange. He loves them back.
Fox News on Wikileaks - Judge Napolitano

Uploaded to youtube by the Drudge Report.

97 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:39:59am

Afternoon all…how is everybody?

98 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:41:19am

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

Tougher? In what sense?

Tougher in that the minute anyone criticizes her in the least she whines? Tougher in that she is very good at calling names, but not so good at not getting her feelings hurt when someone returns the favor?

99 garhighway  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:42:05am

Here’s something fun: Salon’s “Hack 30” list, their choice for the worst thirty columnists/commentators in print or on cable.

[Link: www.salon.com…]

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:42:07am

re: #76 albusteve

huh?…how so?

Fools who got their asses handed to them while acting in a bad cause is, I think, the category.

101 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:42:08am

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Yes, It’s part of the radical libertarian philosophy popularized by the Tea Party. Ron Paul, Alex Jones and Fox News hos Andrew Napolitano love wikileaks and Assange. He loves them back.
Fox News on Wikileaks - Judge Napolitano


[Video]Uploaded to youtube by the Drudge Report.

And? I can find plenty of video showing support from Amy Goodman and Democracy Now! From that I can come to a conclusion that Assange it a leftist? I suppose using this logic I can therefore conclude he’s what? A Democrat?

This is just simple guilt by association. Andrew Napolitano supports Assange therefore he must be a Tea Partier.

102 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:42:14am

Charles,
Forwarded an email I got from someone wanting to know how to register. I told them to just keep trying like the rest of us, but wanted to let you know.

103 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:42:48am

More on Net Neutrality and Comcast:

Level 3 Communications, a central partner in the Netflix online movie service, accused Comcast on Monday of charging a new fee that puts Internet video companies at a competitive disadvantage.

A recent study found that at peak times, Netflix represented 20 percent of Internet download traffic in the United States. That makes it a de facto competitor for incumbent distributors like Comcast and Time Warner Cable, which are eager to protect both the subscription television business and the emerging video-on-demand business.

Nonetheless, on Monday night, public interest groups that have steadfastly opposed the combination of Comcast and NBC Universal argued that the Level 3 case proved that Comcast would discriminate against competitors if it could.

“On its face, this is the sort of toll booth between residential subscribers and the content of their choice that a net neutrality rule is supposed to prohibit,” said Harold Feld, legal director of one such group, Public Knowledge, in a statement.

Mr. Stortz said Level 3 would be approaching government regulators this week and “asking them to take quick action to ensure that a fair, open and innovative Internet does not become a closed network controlled by a few institutions with dominant market power that have the means, motive and opportunity to economically discriminate between favored and disfavored content.”

Mr. McGuire, of Gartner, said, “There is no law here. There are only guiding principles. F.C.C. clarity on this kind of thing is going to be required.”

Without laws on the books to specify that internet service providers provide what is legally considered a “utility”, like phone service, rather than a “service”, it will be perfectly legal for companies that provide both internet service and cable television content to block similar services from other providers. in other words, bye-bye Netflix.

It’s only a short hop from that to companies controlling access to news content. This is baaaaaaad stuff.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:43:28am

re: #98 PT Barnum

Tougher in that the minute anyone criticizes her in the least she whines? Tougher in that she is very good at calling names, but not so good at not getting her feelings hurt when someone returns the favor?

Yeah. I can’t think of a thinner-skinned supposed politician.

105 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:44:19am

re: #99 garhighway

Here’s something fun: Salon’s “Hack 30” list, their choice for the worst thirty columnists/commentators in print or on cable.

[Link: www.salon.com…]

I was dissappointed not to see Peggy Noonan or Cal Thomas on that list.

106 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:44:26am

re: #99 garhighway

Here’s something fun: Salon’s “Hack 30” list, their choice for the worst thirty columnists/commentators in print or on cable.

[Link: www.salon.com…]

Interesting. Only one on that list I actually read is David Brooks.

107 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:44:52am

re: #105 PT Barnum

I was dissappointed not to see Peggy Noonan or Cal Thomas on that list.

They only had room for 30, I suppose.

108 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:45:02am

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. I can’t think of a thinner-skinned supposed politician.

When you think being criticized somehow violates your First Amendment rights you have some deep seated problems.

109 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:45:34am

re: #108 PT Barnum

When you think being criticized somehow violates your First Amendment rights you have some deep seated problems.

People freely speaking their opinions about me violates my first amendment rights!

110 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:45:39am

re: #107 Fozzie Bear

They only had room for 30, I suppose.

I thought Broder and Brooks and Halperin were good. David Gregory should have been there, in my opinion, as well.

111 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:46:07am

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Tea Party!Assange: I’m Influenced by “American libertarianism, market libertarianism”

in my usual defense of clarity of definitions, i have to say that the word libertarian, when you look it up, seems to have become every bit as vague as the much abused “liberalism”. of course, teabagistas mostly use it as a respectable way of saying “i don’t wanna pay taxes”

having said that, i think the article reveals assange as a shallow thinker with his “libertarian” roots no deeper than any teabagger

112 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:46:22am

I was reminded earlier to re-register with our state “no call” list as it expires every 2 years. So I put all our phones on it all the while wishing that pollsters & political callers had to obey it too. It’s going to be a long 2 years…

113 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:46:31am

re: #109 Fozzie Bear

People freely speaking their opinions about me violates my first amendment rights!

You must have had fun sueing Statler and Waldorf all those years then…

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:47:19am

re: #112 wlewisiii

I was reminded earlier to re-register with our state “no call” list as it expires every 2 years. So I put all our phones on it all the while wishing that pollsters & political callers had to obey it too. It’s going to be a long 2 years…

You mean you don’t like getting random calls from Bill Clinton every evening?

115 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:47:28am

re: #112 wlewisiii

I was reminded earlier to re-register with our state “no call” list as it expires every 2 years. So I put all our phones on it all the while wishing that pollsters & political callers had to obey it too. It’s going to be a long 2 years…

Better yet, just mess with them when they call. My favorite tactic:

Ask them to speak up repeatedly and then tell them it’s too loud. See how long you can keep them going.

116 CarleeCork  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:48:52am

re: #98 PT Barnum
Hey, she can shoot guns and gut animals. That’s tough.

117 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:49:06am

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

You mean you don’t like getting random calls from Bill Clinton every evening?

I don’t mind the calls, but the heavy breathing is a little creepy. /

118 rwdflynavy  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:50:03am

re: #109 Fozzie Bear

People freely speaking their opinions about me violates my first amendment rights!

The first amendment is Unconstitutional!!!
//

119 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:50:08am

re: #101 Gus 802

And? I can find plenty of video showing support from Amy Goodman and Democracy Now! From that I can come to a conclusion that Assange it a leftist? I suppose using this logic I can therefore conclude he’s what? A Democrat?

This is just simple guilt by association. Andrew Napolitano supports Assange therefore he must be a Tea Partier.

Assange is part of the moronic convergence of left and right wing extremists. Loved by Code Pink and Paulians alike. However in his own assessment of his beliefs he claims to be influenced by American Libertarianism. That’s not guilt by association. That’s his own words.
Sorry but I’m missing the point of your outrage.

120 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:51:12am

re: #116 CarleeCork

Hey, she can shoot guns and gut animals. That’s tough.

I can gut guns and shoot animals…big deal

121 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:51:58am

re: #115 PT Barnum

My favorite thing to do with robo calls is to just set the phone down and let it blat away to no one. The longer that line is wasted on me, the fewer other people it can harass.

Political pollsters only get lies.

122 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:52:01am

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Assange is part of the moronic convergence of left and right wing extremists. Loved by Code Pink and Paulians alike. However in his own assessment of his beliefs he claims to be influenced by American Libertarianism. That’s not guilt by association. That’s his own words.
Sorry but I’m missing the point of your outrage.

It’s sort of pointless to try to cram someone like Assange into the peculiar American political spectrum.

123 garhighway  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:52:26am

re: #105 PT Barnum

I was dissappointed not to see Peggy Noonan or Cal Thomas on that list.

Peggy was #10.

124 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:53:27am

Palin / Fetus In A Jar ‘12

125 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:53:27am

re: #121 wlewisiii

My favorite thing to do with robo calls is to just set the phone down and let it blat away to no one. The longer that line is wasted on me, the fewer other people it can harass.

Political pollsters only get lies.

I usually figure out who they seem to be push pulling for in the first place and tell them exactly what I think the most want not to hear. Obviously slanted questions from a live person get an earfull about being full of shit.

126 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:53:39am

re: #123 garhighway

Peggy was #10.

Whoops..missed her..

127 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:54:34am

re: #125 PT Barnum

I usually figure out who they seem to be push pulling for in the first place and tell them exactly what I think the most want not to hear. Obviously slanted questions from a live person get an earfull about being full of shit.

I got an annoying pollster call before.
Every one of my answers was “Ron Paul”
:P

128 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:55:04am

re: #115 PT Barnum

Tom Mabe does some funny pranks on those telemarketers:

LOL

129 garhighway  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:55:27am

re: #124 Jeff In Ohio

Palin / Fetus In A Jar ‘12

Palin/Nixon’s Head in 2012

130 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:55:27am

re: #122 Fozzie Bear


It’s sort of pointless to try to cram someone like Assange into the peculiar American political spectrum.


I don’t think so. I tend to think of him as just a publicity whore but he does have a political and social philosophy and I don’t see any need to avoid the topic of his own statements about where he’s coming from.

131 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:57:03am

re: #129 garhighway

Palin/Nixon’s Head in 2012

Palin/Nixon Robot 2012
Image: Robo_Nixon.png

132 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:57:31am

Can someone explain to me why open discussion of the Wikileaks thing is causing so much outrage here? I really honestly don’t get it.

133 CarleeCork  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:57:35am

re: #120 PT Barnum

I can gut guns and shoot animals…big deal


But are you a hot chick that wears tight skirts, stilettos, winks and says you betcha? If not, that makes her tougher
///

134 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:58:03am

re: #130 Killgore Trout

I don’t think so. I tend to think of him as just a publicity whore but he does have a political and social philosophy and I don’t see any need to avoid the topic of his own statements about where he’s coming from.

Well, there’s no need to avoid it really, I just don’t think it is at all relevant.

135 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:00:08am

re: #132 Killgore Trout

Can someone explain to me why open discussion of the Wikileaks thing is causing so much outrage here? I really honestly don’t get it.

Perhaps it has something to do with the fevered attempt to label the guy a terrorist yesterday. I have no love for the guy, but assassinating him, or labeling him a terrorist (two ideas forwarded here yesterday) are way over the line.

What Assange does is bound to be unpopular. It is bound to make him enemies. It doesn’t make him a monster.

136 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:00:19am

re: #133 CarleeCork

But are you a hot chick that wears tight skirts, stilettos, winks and says you betcha? If not, that makes her tougher
///

I’m male, 6’2”, 385 pounds with a beard ..if I wore a tight skirt, stilettos, winked and said you betcha in public I think that would prove I’m toughter.

137 recusancy  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:02:37am

re: #105 PT Barnum

I was dissappointed not to see Peggy Noonan or Cal Thomas on that list.

A hack is a hack.

138 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:04:03am

re: #137 recusancy

A hack is a hack.

Andrew Sullivan probably belonged, but he’s less of a journalist and more of a bloviator

139 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:04:09am

Corporate policy training via steaming video slide show and I took a benadryl this morning. Not a winning combination.

140 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:05:06am

re: #139 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Corporate policy training via steaming video slide show and I took a benadryl this morning. Not a winning combination.

Have had that happen to me before. Was even worse before I got treated for sleep apnea.

141 recusancy  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:06:17am

re: #138 PT Barnum

Andrew Sullivan probably belonged, but he’s less of a journalist and more of a bloviator

Oh oops. I misread. I thought you were disappointed to see them on the list. Noonan is there. #10

142 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:07:35am

re: #139 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Corporate policy training via steaming video slide show and I took a benadryl this morning. Not a winning combination.

I worked the night shift as a guard in a juvenile detention center some years ago, when I got the flu. I took some medicine to control the symptoms, since calling out sick was an instant firing offense. My post was covered by security cameras, so I just had to sit there and pinch myself over and over for 8 hours. (literally nothing happens after lockdown. The guards are just there… well… in case something happens. Nothing ever happened at night.

It was hell.

143 PT Barnum  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:08:02am

re: #141 recusancy

Oh oops. I misread. I thought you were disappointed to see them on the list. Noonan is there. #10

That was pointed out earlier. I missed her name for some reason. She always strikes me as being very much in love with the sound of her own voice.

144 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:08:12am

re: #140 PT Barnum

Have had that happen to me before. Was even worse before I got treated for sleep apnea.

I took a lunestra last night too. Its all blah blah blah to me anyways, its mandatory training covering conflicts of interests in contracting disputes, something I have absolutely nothing to do with.

145 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:09:22am

re: #135 Fozzie Bear

Perhaps it has something to do with the fevered attempt to label the guy a terrorist yesterday. I have no love for the guy, but assassinating him, or labeling him a terrorist (two ideas forwarded here yesterday) are way over the line.

What Assange does is bound to be unpopular. It is bound to make him enemies. It doesn’t make him a monster.

Ah, ok.Labeling him a terrorist simply won’t work legally but he is walking a fine line between journalism and espionage. He’s playing a very dangerous game.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:10:12am

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok.Labeling him a terrorist simply won’t work legally but he is walking a fine line between journalism and espionage. He’s playing a very dangerous game.

Not everyone who is dangerous, ill-advised, and irritating as hell is actually a terrorist.

147 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:11:01am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Not everyone who is dangerous, ill-advised, and irritating as hell is actually a terrorist.

Take me for instance!

148 CarleeCork  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:11:33am

re: #136 PT Barnum
Or insane?
//

149 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:11:46am

Thank God he has a defense;

Michael Brea, bit-part ‘Ugly Betty’ actor, says, ‘I didn’t kill her. I killed the demon inside her’

Well, that clears everything up then. I sense an immediate acquittal.

150 Lidane  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:12:27am

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

He’s every bit as dumb as Palin, sadly.

But still smarter than her in that he recognizes the folly of pandering to Palin and her sycophants for the long-term health of the GOP.

I’m hardly a Scarborough fan, but the guy’s on point here. It doesn’t do anyone any favors for the Republicans to kowtow to Caribou Barbie and the anti-intellectualism she represents.

151 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:14:09am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. I find it almost impressive that someone could steal a quarter million government documents and not one of them is interesting. It’s kinda like breaking into Fort Knox and stealing a quarter million paper clips.

152 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:14:49am

Clinton condemns leak as ‘attack on international community’

(CNN) — The United States’ top diplomat condemned Monday the secret-busting website WikiLeaks’ release of hundreds of thousands of documents that detail with unusual frankness the nation’s diplomatic interactions with other countries.

The illegal disclosure of secret information “puts people’s lives in danger, threatens our national security and undermines our efforts to work with other countries to solve shared problems,” Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said.

“This disclosure is not just an attack on America’s foreign policy; it is an attack on the international community, the alliances and partnerships, the conventions and negotiations that safeguard global security and advance economic prosperity.”

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:16:42am

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I find it almost impressive that someone could steal a quarter million government documents and not one of them is interesting. It’s kinda like breaking into Fort Knox and stealing a quarter million paper clips.

Perhaps diplomacy is less thrilling than the movies make it look.

154 blueraven  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:18:25am

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I find it almost impressive that someone could steal a quarter million government documents and not one of them is interesting. It’s kinda like breaking into Fort Knox and stealing a quarter million paper clips.

I wouldnt have nearly as big a problem with Assange if he were spreading his leaks around a bit more. Lets see him go after China, Russia and Europe. An equal opportunity leaker.

155 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:18:42am

This sounds pretty darn libertarian:

An Interview With WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange
Nov. 29 2010
By ANDY GREENBERG

[…]

What do you think WikiLeaks mean for business? How do businesses need to adjust to a world where WikiLeaks exists?

WikiLeaks means it’s easier to run a good business and harder to run a bad business, and all CEOs should be encouraged by this. I think about the case in China where milk powder companies started cutting the protein in milk powder with plastics. That happened at a number of separate manufacturers.

Let’s say you want to run a good company. It’s nice to have an ethical workplace. Your employees are much less likely to screw you over if they’re not screwing other people over.

Then one company starts cutting their milk powder with melamine, and becomes more profitable. You can follow suit, or slowly go bankrupt and the one that’s cutting its milk powder will take you over. That’s the worst of all possible outcomes.

The other possibility is that the first one to cut its milk powder is exposed. Then you don’t have to cut your milk powder. There’s a threat of regulation that produces self-regulation.

It just means that it’s easier for honest CEOs to run an honest business, if the dishonest businesses are more effected negatively by leaks than honest businesses. That’s the whole idea. In the struggle between open and honest companies and dishonest and closed companies, we’re creating a tremendous reputational tax on the unethical companies.

No one wants to have their own things leaked. It pains us when we have internal leaks. But across any given industry, it is both good for the whole industry to have those leaks and it’s especially good for the good players.

[…]

Sounds like Rand Paul and the lunch counters. Therefore, sounds tea partyish to me.

156 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:20:01am

re: #154 blueraven

I wouldnt have nearly as big a problem with Assange if he were spreading his leaks around a bit more. Lets see him go after China, Russia and Europe. An equal opportunity leaker.

Nobody gets to aim the loose cannon. That’s why they’re dangerous.

157 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:21:22am

re: #154 blueraven

I wouldnt have nearly as big a problem with Assange if he were spreading his leaks around a bit more. Lets see him go after China, Russia and Europe. An equal opportunity leaker.

Rumors are floating around that he might go after the Russians….
Moscow’s Bid to Blow Up WikiLeaks

Even if the rumors aren’t true the Russians might take care of him anyways. He posses a potential threat to pretty much every government on the planet and not everybody is going to put up with it like we have.

158 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:21:22am

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

Take me for instance!

Oh, Ok.

Where are we taking you?

//

159 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:22:17am

re: #155 wrenchwench

This sounds pretty darn libertarian:

Sounds like Rand Paul and the lunch counters. Therefore, sounds tea partyish to me.

Yeah, I linked to that earlier and it upset some people here. They don’t want it discussed for some reason.

160 rwdflynavy  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:22:52am

DOD’s DADT report just hit the street.

[Link: www.defense.gov…]

[Link: www.defense.gov…]

161 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:23:27am

re: #160 rwdflynavy

DOD’s DADT report just hit the street.

[Link: www.defense.gov…]

[Link: www.defense.gov…]

John McCain will no doubt ignore the report.

162 blueraven  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:23:53am

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Rumors are floating around that he might go after the Russians…
Moscow’s Bid to Blow Up WikiLeaks

Even if the rumors aren’t true the Russians might take care of him anyways. He posses a potential threat to pretty much every government on the planet and not everybody is going to put up with it like we have.

Well that’s my point, he attacks the government that he knows have laws that will protect him. That seems cowardly.

163 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:25:22am

re: #162 blueraven

Well that’s my point, he attacks the government that he knows have laws that will protect him. That seems cowardly.

Well, you also have to take into account that we seem to be the only ones with a huge leak problem.
He goes after us partly because someone in the US Army leaked millions of documents to him.

164 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:26:03am

re: #160 rwdflynavy

This should give certain regimes even more reason to hate America. Not that I care what those regimes think. Fuck ‘em. Repeal that shit.

165 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:26:09am

re: #162 blueraven

Well that’s my point, he attacks the government that he knows have laws that will protect him. That seems cowardly.

I also kinda suspect that even if he wasn’t going to leak Russian or Chinese documents it might be in America’s best interest to make it look that way.

166 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:28:04am

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I find it almost impressive that someone could steal a quarter million government documents and not one of them is interesting. It’s kinda like breaking into Fort Knox and stealing a quarter million paper clips.

I think the vast majority of government documents are pretty mundane. Actually, I think it’s a very good thing that there weren’t vary many surprises. It’s a sign that the State Department is working well.

167 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:28:20am

re: #165 Killgore Trout

I also kinda suspect that even if he wasn’t going to leak Russian or Chinese documents it might be in America’s best interest to make it look that way.

Not only is he not leaking them, he’s actually taken down all of his Euro/Corporate leaks from previous. I remember reading a few different documents there that had nothing to do with the US, back when WikiLeaks was an actual wiki and no one had heard of this Julian fellow. I really feel like he or someone else has corrupted that site.

168 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:31:39am

re: #163 Varek Raith

Well, you also have to take into account that we seem to be the only ones with a huge leak problem.
He goes after us partly because someone in the US Army leaked millions of documents to him.

This.

It’s ridiculous to try to make this fiasco the fault of the guy who put it on his website. He is complicit, to be sure, but hew wouldn’t have diddly if it weren’t for the leakers. You can take Assange out, and someone will replace him.

You can’t stop anyone from publishing content on the internet anonymously. You can implement better security practices.

169 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:32:34am

re: #159 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I linked to that earlier and it upset some people here. They don’t want it discussed for some reason.

Disagreement isn’t an attempt to squelch discussion.

170 blueraven  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:33:26am

re: #163 Varek Raith

Well, you also have to take into account that we seem to be the only ones with a huge leak problem.
He goes after us partly because someone in the US Army leaked millions of documents to him.

True, but I am sure that was a cultivated relationship. I am sure there are those in other countries that have their “price” as well.

171 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:37:05am

Netflix Partner Says Comcast ‘Toll’ Threatens Online Video Delivery

Level 3 Communications, a central partner in the Netflix online movie service, accused Comcast on Monday of charging a new fee that puts Internet video companies at a competitive disadvantage.

Level 3, which helps to deliver Netflix’s streaming movies, said Comcast had effectively erected a tollbooth that “threatens the open Internet,” and indicated that it would seek government intervention. Comcast quickly denied that the clash had anything to do with network neutrality, instead calling it “a simple commercial dispute.”

The dispute highlighted the growing importance of Internet video delivery — an area that some people say needs to be monitored more closely by regulators. Net neutrality, which posits that Internet traffic should be free of any interference from network operators like Comcast, is thought to be on the December agenda of the Federal Communications Commission.

172 lostlakehiker  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:38:16am

re: #7 laZardo

This had better be the part where they start eating each other alive.

Whichever of “literally” or “metaphorically” the GOP ends up doing.

Well, you know, “literally” means literally literally. For real, just like the words say. We don’t do that sort of stuff here. That’s reserved to the Khmer Rouge. I won’t spell it out in full detail, it’s pretty sick, but guards at the KR death camps literally did eat prisoners alive.

I don’t want anything bad for Palin personally. I hope she stars in SP’s AK forever, and has fun out in her unstuffy AK forever. The place is in fact beautiful, and if she can popularize it, she’s found her highest and best use for her talents: making the sublime catchy, so it can reverberate with TV-glued Americans.

Just, please, don’t run for office no more. Can she ruin it for us forlorn remnants of the Reagan-Ford-Ike wing of the GOP? You betcha. Can she win? Her special-favorite candidates didn’t do so hot this November, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in most cases.

There’s a broader lesson from this, and the collapse of Ralph Nader’s and Ron Paul’s presidential runs, to the complete absence of a mass movement to opt out of TSA’s scanners on Thanksgiving Wednesday travel day: the internet and the blogosphere distort our perceptions of who has a following and what the public thinks. Again and again, when put to the test, people and ideas that seem from the perspective of the internet to have some real clout fizzle. The analog world is cruel to delusions of grandeur.

173 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:38:19am

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Netflix Partner Says Comcast ‘Toll’ Threatens Online Video Delivery

Comcast is the Devil’s ISP

174 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:39:10am

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Netflix Partner Says Comcast ‘Toll’ Threatens Online Video Delivery

Figures.
Like what Comcast did with P2P files a few years ago.

175 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:43:39am

re: #174 Varek Raith

Figures.
Like what Comcast did with P2P files a few years ago.

That is also referenced in the article I linked.

Heh. I have no use for cable television, and I get the internet through the phone company. Comcast can kick rocks as far as I’m concerned.

176 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:45:31am

Hmmmm…

The site cablegate.wikileaks.org, which WikiLeaks is using for the diplomatic documents, is linked to servers run by Amazon Web Services in Seattle, as well as to French company Octopuce. Wikileaks.org, the site’s front page, links back to Amazon servers in the U.S. and in Ireland. Several Internet watchers, including technologist Alex Norcliffe, reported earlier on WikiLeaks’ use of Amazon services.

[Link: blogs.wsj.com…]

177 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:47:14am

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

Hmmm…

The site cablegate.wikileaks.org, which WikiLeaks is using for the diplomatic documents, is linked to servers run by Amazon Web Services in Seattle, as well as to French company Octopuce. Wikileaks.org, the site’s front page, links back to Amazon servers in the U.S. and in Ireland. Several Internet watchers, including technologist Alex Norcliffe, reported earlier on WikiLeaks’ use of Amazon services.

[Link: blogs.wsj.com…]

And every time we spend a few dollars at Amazon… we help support… ?

178 lostlakehiker  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:48:52am

Oh, while we’re on the topic of leaks, it seems the guy suspected of handing the traffic to Assange was not a tea party “patriot”.

Assuming that bad people are members of the officially reviled bad-people-group is an iffy business. There are bad people even amongst the ranks of the officially good-people sector.

179 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:51:14am
180 webevintage  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:52:31am

re: #143 PT Barnum

That was pointed out earlier. I missed her name for some reason. She always strikes me as being very much in love with the sound of her own voice.

Nooners is always concerned. about. something.

Poor Joe will now be attached by Palin’s Flying Monkey’s and feel the need to apologize in a few days.

and:
[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

But during an interview with MSNBC’s Mike Barnicle today, Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ) scoffed at the notion that unemployment benefits help the economy. “Unemployed people hire people? Really? I didn’t know that,” Shadegg jeered:
BARNICLE: What about the fact that unemployment benefits pumped into the economy are an immediate benefit to the economy? Immediate…
SHADEGG: No, they’re not! Unemployed people hire people? Really? I didn’t know that.
BARNICLE: Unemployed people spend money Congressman, ’cause they have no money.
SHADEGG: Aha! So your answer is it’s the spending of money that drives the economy and I don’t think that’s right. It’s the creation of jobs that drives the economy…Actually, the truth is the unemployed will spend as little of that money as they possibly can. Job creators create jobs.

I thought customers with money created jobs and kept the economy going.

181 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:53:56am

re: #178 lostlakehiker

Oh, while we’re on the topic of leaks, it seems the guy suspected of handing the traffic to Assange was not a tea party “patriot”.

Assuming that bad people are members of the officially reviled bad-people-group is an iffy business. There are bad people even amongst the ranks of the officially good-people sector.

Ah, that reminds me of the outrage from yesterday when I speculated that Bradley Manning might have been influenced by an Oathkeeper philosophy. Seeing that Assange came out today as a radical American style Libertarian I think my speculation about Manning is still very valid. Manning and Assange may share the same ideology. It’s not that far fetched.

182 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:54:59am

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Ah, that reminds me of the outrage from yesterday when I speculated that Bradley Manning might have been influenced by an Oathkeeper philosophy. Seeing that Assange came out today as a radical American style Libertarian I think my speculation about Manning is still very valid. Manning and Assange may share the same ideology. It’s not that far fetched.

Ok, that explains today’s outrage too. It all makes sense now.

183 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:55:32am

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I don’t think Manning has an ideology beyond “I’m really fucking mad and nobody respected me in the military and these guys were nice to me and I want to cause a lot of trouble”.

But we won’t really know until after his trial.

184 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:58:37am

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

And every time we spend a few dollars at Amazon… we help support… ?

Amazon’s EC2 cloud hosting services?

The infrastructure of the internet isn’t the problem.

185 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:01:11pm

re: #183 Obdicut

I don’t think Manning has an ideology beyond “I’m really fucking mad and nobody respected me in the military and these guys were nice to me and I want to cause a lot of trouble”.

But we won’t really know until after his trial.

Even if he isn’t an Oathkeeper he might try to use it as a defense at trial claiming that he felt he was upholding his oath to the Constitution. We will probably never know for sure.
While we’re on the topic nobody yesterday bothered to google: bradley manning libertarian

Much of those links go to Justin Raimondo (Antiwar nut Justin Raimondo thrilled that the Tea Party is reviving the Birch Society) who is not a lefty.

186 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:02:21pm

Here’s where (my share of) the pushback against the Assange thing is coming from:

My “support” for assange isn’t really support for Assange. It’s wariness at any effort to attack the fundamentally free and open nature of the internet in order to stop people like Assange.

You can’t stop this kind of thing without changing the nature of the internet fundamentally, and to do so to stop Assange would be like fighting mosquitos with nuclear bombs. Walter’s comment hinted at what I am most afraid will come of this.

187 recusancy  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:03:33pm

re: #186 Fozzie Bear

Here’s where (my share of) the pushback against the Assange thing is coming from:

My “support” for assange isn’t really support for Assange. It’s wariness at any effort to attack the fundamentally free and open nature of the internet in order to stop people like Assange.

You can’t stop this kind of thing without changing the nature of the internet fundamentally, and to do so to stop Assange would be like fighting mosquitos with nuclear bombs. Walter’s comment hinted at what I am most afraid will come of this.

Yup. Overreaction based on ignorance.

188 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:03:55pm

re: #186 Fozzie Bear

ISP’s, hosting servbices, etc., are just utilities. You wouldn’t attack AT&T because somebody called on one of their phones to make a bomb threat.

189 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:04:58pm

re: #186 Fozzie Bear

Here’s where (my share of) the pushback against the Assange thing is coming from:

My “support” for assange isn’t really support for Assange. It’s wariness at any effort to attack the fundamentally free and open nature of the internet in order to stop people like Assange.

You can’t stop this kind of thing without changing the nature of the internet fundamentally, and to do so to stop Assange would be like fighting mosquitos with nuclear bombs. Walter’s comment hinted at what I am most afraid will come of this.

That’s why I was pointing it out… it was my typical sarcasm about an issue… throwing the “hive speak” of one side or another up in the air to see what kind of flies I catch.

190 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:05:29pm

re: #187 recusancy

Yup. Overreaction based on ignorance.

See my re: #189 Walter L. Newton… jerk.

191 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:07:50pm

Well, ok, as long as we are all on the same page regarding that aspect of it, I won’t have to flip my shit, lol.

192 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:08:45pm

re: #191 Fozzie Bear

Well, ok, as long as we are all on the same page regarding that aspect of it, I won’t have to flip my shit, lol.

Who are you responding to now?

193 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:09:21pm

re: #189 Walter L. Newton

That’s why I was pointing it out… it was my typical sarcasm about an issue… throwing the “hive speak” of one side or another up in the air to see what kind of flies I catch.

re: #187 recusancy

Yup. Overreaction based on ignorance.

Yep… I caught one :)

194 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:11:32pm

OT:
I’m here in NYC, and I didn’t feel a thing, but apparently there was a 3.9 magnitude quake off the Long Island coast earlier today. Then again, with the blasting for the WTC across the street and truck traffic, I could have missed it hidden among the usual noise and clamor.

195 BishopX  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:13:40pm

Assange did an interview with Andy Greenberg at Forbes.


[Assange:]
Usually when you get leaks at this level, it’s about one particular case or one particular violation. For this, there’s only one similar example. It’s like the Enron emails. Why were these so valuable? When Enron collapsed, through court processes, thousands and thousands of emails came out that were internal, and it provided a window into how the whole company was managed. It was all the little decisions that supported the flagrant violations.

This will be like that. Yes, there will be some flagrant violations, unethical practices that will be revealed, but it will also be all the supporting decision-making structures and the internal executive ethos that cames out, and that’s tremendously valuable. Like the Iraq War Logs, yes there were mass casualty incidents that were very newsworthy, but the great value is seeing the full spectrum of the war.
SNIP

Looks like he got his handed on emails and memos rather than actual financial data.

196 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:16:12pm

Cantor Urges ‘Open Mind’ On VA Legislature Plan To Blow Up The Constitution

Incoming House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is part of a class of Republicans who say they want to change the country fundamentally — and to that end, Cantor isn’t dismissing a plan by legislators in his home state of Virgina to blow up the Constitutional system and replace it with one that would give state governments veto power over federal laws.

For several weeks now, conservative legal circles have been buzzing with Virginia House Speaker Bill Howell’s plan to amend the Constitution so that a 2/3 vote by the state governments could overturn overturn any federal law passed by the Congress and signed by the President. Howell first floated the idea in a September Wall Street Journal op-ed he co-wrote with Georgetown University law professor Randy Barnett.

“At present, the only way for states to contest a federal law or regulation is to bring a constitutional challenge in federal court or seek an amendment to the Constitution,” the pair wrote. “A state repeal power provides a targeted way to reverse particular congressional acts and administrative regulations without relying on federal judges or permanently amending the text of the Constitution to correct a specific abuse.”

The pair say the plan is a response to the federal overreach created by “two ‘progressive’ constitutional amendments adopted in 1913” — the 16th Amendment creating a federal income tax and the 17th Amendment allowing for the direct election of U.S. Senators, which were previously appointed by state legislatures.

FACEPALM

197 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:17:53pm

This is the kind of thing that worries me:

[Link: www.eweek.com…]

The Obama administration is working on a proposal that would make it easier for law enforcement and security officials to eavesdrop on online chatter, including e-mail, instant messaging and social networks, reported The New York Times on Sept. 27.

The proposed legislation will likely come before Congress next year.

The White House-sponsored bill would require all Internet-based communication services to be technically capable of complying with a federal wiretap order. This includes being able to intercept and unscramble encrypted messages, said the Times.

It will give the government the ability to listen in on literally every communication anyone makes online.

[snip]

nternet and phone networks are already required to have eavesdropping abilities thanks to a 1994 law called the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act. While extending the wiretap authority to include digital networks and cell phones, and not just copper-wire phone systems, the law does not apply to communications service providers.

Under the current rules, investigators can intercept messages at the network company’s switch. If the user is using a service that encrypts the messages between the computer and the servers, investigators have to go to the communications service provider to view the unscrambled content. While some service providers have the capability to intercept these messages, most do not. According to the Times report, many providers wait until they are served with wiretap orders before developing intercept capabilities.

However, some services, like peer-to-peer instant messaging software, encrypt messages between users, so even the provider cannot unscramble them. The proposed legislation will require these programs to be redesigned so that they can be unscrambled.

“They can promise strong encryption. They just need to figure out how they can provide us plain text,” said Caproni.

This is just about the worst idea imaginable. Illegalizing strong encryption is a very bad idea.

198 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:20:45pm

re: #197 Fozzie Bear

This is the kind of thing that worries me:

[Link: www.eweek.com…]

This is just about the worst idea imaginable. Illegalizing strong encryption is a very bad idea.

And a failed, old one at that: [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

199 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:20:53pm

re: #192 Walter L. Newton

Who are you responding to now?

You and everybody else, really. I think there is a sort of knee-jerk undercurrent to this whole Assange thing that could easily be harnessed to pass the kind of legislation I linked in my post #197. I see that as a very big threat to democracy.

200 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:21:12pm

re: #198 McSpiff

And a failed, old one at that: [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Just because it failed before doesn’t mean it will now.

201 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:23:46pm

re: #196 Varek Raith

Cantor Urges ‘Open Mind’ On VA Legislature Plan To Blow Up The Constitution

FACEPALM

I’m hoping that eventually they will find the individual health insurance mandates unconstitutional. In addition to repealing the new 1099 requirements.

202 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:24:42pm

OT: An Australian story from a professor of Marine studies at the University of Queensland.

Scientists fear mass extinction as oceans choke

Australian scientists fear the planet is on the brink of another mass extinction as ocean dead zones continue to grow in size and number.

More than 400 ocean dead zones - areas so low in oxygen that sea life cannot survive - have been reported by oceanographers around the world between 2000 and 2008.

That is compared with 300 in the 1990s and 120 in the 1980s.

Professor Ove Hoegh-Guldberg, of the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies (CoECRS) and from the University of Queensland, says there is growing evidence that declining oxygen levels in the ocean have played a major role in at least four of the planet’s five mass extinctions.

More at the link

203 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:24:58pm

re: #200 Fozzie Bear

Just because it failed before doesn’t mean it will now.

I think its to the point now that the cat is out of the bag in a big way. Any propsal to require all traffic be decryptable by…someone? who? ISP’s? will require the internet to be torn down and rebuilt. It would also result in issues with financial and various medical privacy laws.

204 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:25:48pm

An example: my entire hard drive is encrypted. I am connected to my home computer via an (encrypted) SSH tunnel. Both of those things would be illegal if that law passed. It would literally make ANY actually secure communications illegal.

This is a sure-fire way to make everyone less secure.

205 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:26:31pm

re: #203 McSpiff

I think its to the point now that the cat is out of the bag in a big way. Any propsal to require all traffic be decryptable by…someone? who? ISP’s? will require the internet to be torn down and rebuilt. It would also result in issues with financial and various medical privacy laws.

Even if you tear down the entire internet, I have the source code for PGP, as do millions of other people. What’s next, illegalizing compilers?

206 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:26:38pm

re: #197 Fozzie Bear

This is the kind of thing that worries me:

[Link: www.eweek.com…]


This is just about the worst idea imaginable. Illegalizing strong encryption is a very bad idea.

not only is it a threat to civil liberties, but ridiculous also since enforcing it would mean detecting any communications which used strong encryption

207 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:27:31pm

OT: US military can safely end gay ban: study

A Pentagon report has backed ending the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the US military.

The study says allowing gay soldiers to serve openly would create no serious problems and that the risk to overall military effectiveness would be low.

Democrats in Congress are hoping to repeal the ban this month, but need some Republicans to change their position for it to pass through the Senate.

More than 14,000 gay soldiers have been discharged under the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy since it was introduced in 1993.

208 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:28:10pm

re: #206 engineer dog

not only is it a threat to civil liberties, but ridiculous also since enforcing it would mean detecting any communications which used strong encryption

… which is in itself fucking impossible.

209 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:28:13pm

re: #205 Fozzie Bear

Even if you tear down the entire internet, I have the source code for PGP, as do millions of other people. What’s next, illegalizing compilers?

Exactly. And how can they tell the difference between an encrypted stream they can decrypt and one they can’t? Impossible till they actually try. No, if anything does pass it will just make “committing a crime while using encryption” an excuse to bump up the number of years served or something similar.

210 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:28:36pm

re: #197 Fozzie Bear

re: #197 Fozzie Bear

This is the kind of thing that worries me:

[Link: www.eweek.com…]

This is just about the worst idea imaginable. Illegalizing strong encryption is a very bad idea.

I wonder if it could be argued that to ban encryption or require a government back door would be a violation of the 2nd amendment. The idea that encryption can be seen as a weapon is fairly widespread - it’s also one of the very few weapons against the types of tyranny that modern dictatorships employ. To require that one turn over keys or provide a backdoor is no different than if the government said - you can own a firearm but must store all your ammuntion at the police department and beg for it when you want to use it. A right that isn’t a right anymore. Certainly encryption is much more of a threat to any government intrusion in my life than my Marlin XS7 is.

/? Maybe, maybe not. Fun to ponder anyway…

211 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:29:05pm

re: #209 McSpiff

Exactly. And how can they tell the difference between an encrypted stream they can decrypt and one they can’t? Impossible till they actually try. No, if anything does pass it will just make “committing a crime while using encryption” an excuse to bump up the number of years served or something similar.

I would leave the US, immediately. I’m not kidding. I’d rather not live in an English-speaking version of China.

212 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:29:42pm

re: #204 Fozzie Bear

An example: my entire hard drive is encrypted. I am connected to my home computer via an (encrypted) SSH tunnel. Both of those things would be illegal if that law passed. It would literally make ANY actually secure communications illegal.

This is a sure-fire way to make everyone less secure.

This is, of course, the actual intent.

213 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:30:01pm

re: #211 Fozzie Bear

I would leave the US, immediately. I’m not kidding. I’d rather not live in an English-speaking version of China.

skip the UK then: [Link: arstechnica.com…]

214 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:30:58pm

SHADEGG: Aha! So your answer is it’s the spending of money that drives the economy

uh, that would be a ‘yes’, moron

wingnut economics includes the theory that money disappears after it’s spent, that jobs created by the government aren’t jobs, and that we should all worshipfully kiss the asses of the magical rich people that “create wealth”

these theories are all easy to believe provided you take care to not learn anything about the real world

215 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:31:09pm

re: #213 McSpiff

skip the UK then: [Link: arstechnica.com…]

Ok slightly different I admit, and you could likely face contempt of court charges or something similar in the US but I hope you get my point…

216 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:32:00pm

re: #213 McSpiff

skip the UK then: [Link: arstechnica.com…]

I suppose the remedy is using hidden encrypted (unpartitioned and unallocated) virtual volumes ala truecrypt to provide a degree of plausible deniability.

It shouldn’t be necessary to take such measures to maintain privacy.

217 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:33:22pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

Good Fucking Christ! At least the Soviets were honest about the types of prisons they built.

218 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:34:10pm

Copy and paste
“pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk” into Google Translate.
[Link: translate.google.com…]

Change it to ‘German to German’ and press listen, enjoy.

219 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:34:15pm

re: #202 ozbloke

Oceans going dead is one of the worst possible signs of climate change that can exist. And still it gets denied.

Mind-boggling. I don’t understand how anyone with kids can be an AGW denier or support them.

220 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:34:49pm

re: #219 Obdicut

Oceans going dead is one of the worst possible signs of climate change that can exist. And still it gets denied.

Mind-boggling. I don’t understand how anyone with kids can be an AGW denier or support them.

“God won’t let it happen.”

221 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:35:19pm

re: #217 Romantic Heretic

Good Fucking Christ! At least the Soviets were honest about the types of prisons they built.

As I noted above, they can’t actually stop you from encrypting. They can just jail you for doing so. And there is no way in hell they will convince me to unencrypt my home computer, ever. That shit is private for a reason. Nakie pics of my wife, private emails, porn, you name it, it’s MY FUCKING DATA.

THIS IS THE ISSUE THE TEA PARTY TYPES SHOULD BE INCENSED AT OBAMA ABOUT.

222 theheat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:35:38pm

re: #220 McSpiff

“God won’t let it happen.”

Oh, yes, the deniers’ version of “conservation.”

223 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:36:37pm

re: #220 McSpiff

If God existed, he would have let people die in floods, earthquakes, famines, fires, diseases, from being born without lungs, parasitic worms, ebola, etc. etc. Why the hell would climate change be a step too far?

224 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:36:55pm

re: #219 Obdicut

Oceans going dead is one of the worst possible signs of climate change that can exist. And still it gets denied.

Mind-boggling. I don’t understand how anyone with kids can be an AGW denier or support them.

100% correct, alas I have but one upding.

225 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:37:00pm

Ecuador alters refuge offer to WikiLeaks founder

Heh, keep running slimeball. If he gets chased out of Europe, he’s fucked.

226 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:37:12pm

re: #219 Obdicut

Oceans going dead is one of the worst possible signs of climate change that can exist. And still it gets denied.

Mind-boggling. I don’t understand how anyone with kids can be an AGW denier or support them.

parts of the ocean going extinct such as the gulf of mexico ecosystem, as i understand it, would also cut off a major part of our own supplies of oxygen

so we would go extinct as well

227 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:38:15pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Ecuador alters refuge offer to WikiLeaks founder

Heh, keep running slimeball. If he gets chased out of Europe, he’s fucked.

You still don’t get it. He’s a rather unpalatable canary that, if literally chased off the grid, spells bad, bad things for the future of the internet.

Free, open, and anonymous communication is far more important than getting rid of Assange.

228 SpaceJesus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:38:50pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout


Do you see him ever being tried for the publication?

229 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:39:12pm

re: #208 Fozzie Bear

… which is in itself fucking impossible.

this fact shouldn’t stop people from applying for million dollar federal grants to try
/

230 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:41:04pm

re: #228 SpaceJesus

Do you see him ever being tried for the publication?

Never in a million years.

231 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:42:05pm

re: #227 Fozzie Bear

You still don’t get it. He’s a rather unpalatable canary that, if literally chased off the grid, spells bad, bad things for the future of the internet.

Free, open, and anonymous communication is far more important than getting rid of Assange.

Perhaps the internet accelerates the dissemination of the material but the root cause is not entirely an “internet problem” nor encryption. The root cause of course was the security risk created by none other than Bradley Manning and the inter-agency sharing of classified information which in this case was retrieved at the Pentagon. Manning did not hack his way to this information he simply had direct access to it.

232 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:45:05pm

I highly, highly doubt Assange has even seen these documents, let alone handled them. He’s wikileaks spokesperson, there is an entire team behind him, all over the globe. The entire process is distributed, both across computers and people. Ideally (for WL) he’ll be the one to get arrested, spend years in court and be found guilty of nothing. While the others continue to work in the shadows.

233 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:45:21pm

re: #129 garhighway

Palin/Nixon’s Head in 2012

Nixon’s Head…the DC punk rock band? That’s an obscure one.

234 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:45:23pm

re: #231 Gus 802

Perhaps the internet accelerates the dissemination of the material but the root cause is not entirely an “internet problem” nor encryption. The root cause of course was the security risk created by none other than Bradley Manning and the inter-agency sharing of classified information which in this case was retrieved at the Pentagon. Manning did not hack his way to this information he simply had direct access to it.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

(Tr: Who watches the watchman?, a questions answered better by Terry Pratchett than anyone else.)

235 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:46:37pm

re: #227 Fozzie Bear

You still don’t get it. He’s a rather unpalatable canary that, if literally chased off the grid, spells bad, bad things for the future of the internet.

Free, open, and anonymous communication is far more important than getting rid of Assange.

Ok, I think the final piece of the puzzle fell in place for me. The outrage about questioning the political motivations of Assange and Manning was really curious to me. I totally forgot that we do have people here who are somewhat supportive of their efforts. The outrage makes much more sense to me now.

236 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:47:27pm

re: #218 ozbloke

Copy and paste
“pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkk bschk” into Google Translate.
[Link: translate.google.com…]

Change it to ‘German to German’ and press listen, enjoy.

Now I know I have too much time on my hands.

Once I quit trying to read it, and clicked on “Listen”, I liked it.

237 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:48:24pm

re: #236 wrenchwench

You do no thave too much time on your hands. The person who discovered this does.

238 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:49:05pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Ok, I think the final piece of the puzzle fell in place for me. The outrage about questioning the political motivations of Assange and Manning was really curious to me. I totally forgot that we do have people here who are somewhat supportive of their efforts. The outrage makes much more sense to me now.

Right, because standing up for your rights means you’re criminal. Which amendment states “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide” again? Get off your high horse, it got old about 3 threads ago.

239 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:49:17pm

re: #231 Gus 802

Perhaps the internet accelerates the dissemination of the material but the root cause is not entirely an “internet problem” nor encryption. The root cause of course was the security risk created by none other than Bradley Manning and the inter-agency sharing of classified information which in this case was retrieved at the Pentagon. Manning did not hack his way to this information he simply had direct access to it.

Surely the fault lies with the agency that has a dvd/cd burner is the employees machine, and seemingly has a policy that allows employees to use these dvd/cd for private purpose.

Why a burner, why not just a player?

Why not a small app that detects when a dvd/cd is loaded, and reads it contents and reports it.

Humans are humans, they will do what they will.
Security of information should be up to the employer.

240 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:49:40pm

OT: GOP has spent 18 times more on their convention arrangements than they had at this point four years ago.

Including a shitload of money for Steele’s former assistant— and her son.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

241 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:50:06pm

re: #237 EmmmieG

You do no thave too much time on your hands. The person who discovered this does.

I’m hoping he or she writes more.

Did you write that, ozbloke?

242 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:50:20pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Ecuador alters refuge offer to WikiLeaks founder

Heh, keep running slimeball. If he gets chased out of Europe, he’s fucked.

Apparently, he’s in Jordan right now. Undisclosed location, of course.

243 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:50:50pm

re: #239 ozbloke

Surely the fault lies with the agency that has a dvd/cd burner is the employees machine, and seemingly has a policy that allows employees to use these dvd/cd for private purpose.

Why a burner, why not just a player?

Why not a small app that detects when a dvd/cd is loaded, and reads it contents and reports it.

Humans are humans, they will do what they will.
Security of information should be up to the employer.

At my place of employment, machines that access our secret network (NOT SIPRCOR or whatever the official secret network is). takes two employees, two machines, and it leaves a nifty paper trail to burn a cd.

244 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:51:30pm

re: #238 McSpiff

Right, because standing up for your rights means you’re criminal. Which amendment states “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide” again? Get off your high horse, it got old about 3 threads ago.

Heh. How is stealing and publishing classified government documents “standing up for your rights”?

245 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:51:38pm

re: #239 ozbloke

Surely the fault lies with the agency that has a dvd/cd burner is the employees machine, and seemingly has a policy that allows employees to use these dvd/cd for private purpose.

Why a burner, why not just a player?

Why not a small app that detects when a dvd/cd is loaded, and reads it contents and reports it.

Humans are humans, they will do what they will.
Security of information should be up to the employer.

There you go. Sometimes it could be a simple situation like that — not allowing access to any CD/DVD burners. Another thing could be creating secure rooms. Everyone, and I mean everyone that has access to that room would be thoroughly search like, ironically, the TSA is doing.

Don’t forget the USB memory cards. Whew.

246 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:52:58pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

Heh. How is stealing and publishing classified government documents “standing up for your rights”?

How is banning strong encryption going to stop someone from stealing classified documents?

247 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:53:18pm

re: #238 McSpiff

Right, because standing up for your rights means you’re criminal. Which amendment states “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide” again? Get off your high horse, it got old about 3 threads ago.

I’m not going to get off my anti-espionage high horse so don’t get your hopes up.

248 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:53:28pm

re: #103 Fozzie Bear

Agreed.

I remember arguing with a ‘Business can do no wrong’ person about internet neutrality. They saw no problem with companies controlling the flow of information on the internet. None at all.

When I accused her of being ‘anti-free speech’ she exploded like old dynamite.

Really sad. Like most fanatics she didn’t actually believe in what they profess to believe in.

249 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:53:29pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Ok, I think the final piece of the puzzle fell in place for me. The outrage about questioning the political motivations of Assange and Manning was really curious to me. I totally forgot that we do have people here who are somewhat supportive of their efforts. The outrage makes much more sense to me now.

I’m not outraged. I just think Manning and Assange have more in common with the SWP, CPUSA, and ANSWER, etc., than any other group.

250 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:53:47pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Ok, I think the final piece of the puzzle fell in place for me. The outrage about questioning the political motivations of Assange and Manning was really curious to me. I totally forgot that we do have people here who are somewhat supportive of their efforts. The outrage makes much more sense to me now.

re: #238 McSpiff

Right, because standing up for your rights means you’re criminal. Which amendment states “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide” again? Get off your high horse, it got old about 3 threads ago.

What am I missing here? How is stealing and disseminating classified information an issue of constitutional rights?

251 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:54:21pm

re: #246 McSpiff

How is banning strong encryption going to stop someone from stealing classified documents?

I don’t know. I never claimed that.

252 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:54:30pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

I’m not going to get off my anti-espionage high horse so don’t get your hopes up.

Its too bad you apparently have absolutely no idea about how this leak has occurred. Hint: the problem ain’t technology, any more than LGF is responsible for you being clueless…

253 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:54:42pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Ok, I think the final piece of the puzzle fell in place for me. The outrage about questioning the political motivations of Assange and Manning was really curious to me. I totally forgot that we do have people here who are somewhat supportive of their efforts. The outrage makes much more sense to me now.

Bingo… we have a new winner in the Alex Jones “Spin a Conspiracy” Contest. First prize… your own blog sponsored on Prison Planet’s website.
//

254 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:54:49pm

re: #252 McSpiff

Hint: You’re being an asshole.

255 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:54:56pm

re: #241 wrenchwench

I’m hoping he or she writes more.

Did you write that, ozbloke?

No, its going round on facebook.
I thought it was entertaining, but I’m bent.

256 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:55:05pm

re: #238 McSpiff

Right, because standing up for your rights means you’re criminal.

You lost me too. Who is standing up for what rights?

257 b_sharp  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:56:14pm

If we’re all lost together are we really lost?

258 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:56:37pm

re: #243 McSpiff

At my place of employment, machines that access our secret network (NOT SIPRCOR or whatever the official secret network is). takes two employees, two machines, and it leaves a nifty paper trail to burn a cd.

Seriously, it would not have been hard to remove the risk/opportunity.

259 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:56:44pm

We should all read Thud! (Terry Pratchett). It’s one of the most powerful written pieces about personal accountability for policing ourselves that is not considered holy by anyone, and is entertaining, too.

I was going to post a big long quote, but it was also a spoiler, so I’ll tell you all to check it out and read it, instead.

260 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:56:55pm

re: #257 b_sharp

Ask the dudes who ate each other in the Andes.

261 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:56:55pm

re: #256 wrenchwench

You lost me too. Who is standing up for what rights?

Fuzzy bear, and the right to encryption (1st or 2nd amendment depending on who you ask).

262 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:57:33pm

re: #249 Gus 802

I’m not outraged. I just think Manning and Assange have more in common with the SWP, CPUSA, and ANSWER, etc., than any other group.

I’m sorry to break it to you but that’s not factually accurate. He’s an extremist libertarian. There is some crossover support just like Ron Paul but he’s been very clear about his political views.

263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:57:36pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

Heh. How is stealing and publishing classified government documents “standing up for your rights”?

re: #246 McSpiff

How is banning strong encryption going to stop someone from stealing classified documents?

One of these things is not like the other…

264 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:57:43pm

re: #261 McSpiff

Where are you getting the idea that Killgore has objected to encryption in any way, shape, or form?

265 b_sharp  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 12:59:06pm

re: #260 Obdicut

Ask the dudes who ate each other in the Andes.

They should have packed more bologna sandwiches.

266 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:00:07pm

re: #258 ozbloke

Seriously, it would not have been hard to remove the risk/opportunity.

Well, it is and isn’t. My employer does a pretty damn good job with our secret material, but given a few hours most people would be able to sneak a few docs out. 250k on a thumb drive or CD? Probably not. Ultimately there was an issue with this guy having his clearance and access to these systems in general. Everything I’ve read makes him sound like “the bullied loner type”, aka a guy with something to prove.

267 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:00:18pm

re: #264 Obdicut

Where are you getting the idea that Killgore has objected to encryption in any way, shape, or form?

#235

268 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:00:21pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

I’m sorry to break it to you but that’s not factually accurate. He’s an extremist libertarian. There is some crossover support just like Ron Paul but he’s been very clear about his political views.

Don’t be sorry because you don’t really have any facts as to his association other than Assange having said he was “inspired” by some libertarianism ideas. The reality is that most of us here also have libertarian ideas.

269 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:00:34pm

re: #255 ozbloke

No, its going round on facebook.
I thought it was entertaining, but I’m bent.

I can’t hear it when I press “listen”.
darn.

270 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:01:10pm

re: #245 Gus 802

There you go. Sometimes it could be a simple situation like that — not allowing access to any CD/DVD burners. Another thing could be creating secure rooms. Everyone, and I mean everyone that has access to that room would be thoroughly search like, ironically, the TSA is doing.

Don’t forget the USB memory cards. Whew.

I had read that the USB ports were disabled for security, yet they are allowed to use the burners to play audio cd’s ‘Lady Gaga’ was appartantly his choice.

There are some people above Manning that should be answering some serious questions.

Sometimes it seems we just want a name, someone to blame, then we can all sleep at night, knowing we are not like them.

Come on, what movie was that from?
Walter? Anyone?

271 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:01:37pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

I get his point, though, in that they similarly are bad actors whose intentions aren’t generally beneficial to the American public.

That is, if that’s the point he was trying to make.

272 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:02:53pm

re: #270 ozbloke

I had read that the USB ports were disabled for security, yet they are allowed to use the burners to play audio cd’s ‘Lady Gaga’ was appartantly his choice.

There are some people above Manning that should be answering some serious questions.

Sometimes it seems we just want a name, someone to blame, then we can all sleep at night, knowing we are not like them.

Come on, what movie was that from?
Walter? Anyone?

“Being There”

273 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:03:12pm

re: #267 McSpiff

#235

Which has fuck-all to do with encryption.

So again: Where are you getting this from?

Assange and wikileaks are unrelated to the encryption discussion.

274 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:03:13pm

Why would a relatively low ranking intelligence specialist in Iraq have access to State Dept documents from 40 years ago? That’s type of question that actually matters here, not which was Manning votes.

275 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:03:36pm

re: #273 Obdicut

Which has fuck-all to do with encryption.

So again: Where are you getting this from?

Assange and wikileaks are unrelated to the encryption discussion.

Unless you were actually following the discussion leading up to #235.

276 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:03:41pm

re: #270 ozbloke

I had read that the USB ports were disabled for security, yet they are allowed to use the burners to play audio cd’s ‘Lady Gaga’ was appartantly his choice.

There are some people above Manning that should be answering some serious questions.

Sometimes it seems we just want a name, someone to blame, then we can all sleep at night, knowing we are not like them.

Come on, what movie was that from?
Walter? Anyone?

Good Will Hunting… but I’ve never seen it… have it… never seen it.

277 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:03:44pm

re: #255 ozbloke

No, its going round on facebook.
I thought it was entertaining, but I’m bent.

I have two siblings who work as translators in Germany. Of course they hate Google Translate, but they might like this.

278 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:04:00pm

re: #229 engineer dog

this fact shouldn’t stop people from applying for million dollar federal grants to try
/

the only possible way to do this is qith quantum computing. Even then, there are one-time-pad-based encryption techniques that would be employed byre: #244 Killgore Trout

Heh. How is stealing and publishing classified government documents “standing up for your rights”?

He didn’t steal anything. He just published it. Manning stole it.

279 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:04:15pm

re: #274 McSpiff

Why would a relatively low ranking intelligence specialist in Iraq have access to State Dept documents from 40 years ago? That’s type of question that actually matters here, not which was Manning votes.

PIMF: Which way Manning votes.

280 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:04:18pm

re: #267 McSpiff

#235

I see no mention of encryption in that comment, pro or con. I think you may be confusing two different things here.

281 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:04:55pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Ecuador: I’ve altered the deal. Pray that I don’t alter it further.

Julian: This deal is getting worse all the time.

/ESB reference

282 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:05:06pm

re: #280 Slumbering Behemoth

I see no mention of encryption in that comment, pro or con. I think you may be confusing two different things here.


Very few comments here are made in isolation. Read Fuzzy’s comments leading up to that and its very clear he (and I) were discussing encryption.

283 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:05:29pm

re: #261 McSpiff

Fuzzy bear, and the right to encryption (1st or 2nd amendment depending on who you ask).

OK, then are you NOT saying that Manning or Assange have the right to steal and leak information?

I wasn’t commenting on the possibility of banning encryption.

284 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:06:30pm

re: #266 McSpiff

Well, it is and isn’t. My employer does a pretty damn good job with our secret material, but given a few hours most people would be able to sneak a few docs out. 250k on a thumb drive or CD? Probably not. Ultimately there was an issue with this guy having his clearance and access to these systems in general. Everything I’ve read makes him sound like “the bullied loner type”, aka a guy with something to prove.

McSpiff,

I’m really not all up to speed on this topic, but Manning didn’t hack at anything.

If there were no dvd/cd burners there is nothing that I have seen that would indicate that this leak would have occurred.

Please set me straight if I missed something.

285 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:06:51pm

re: #278 Fozzie Bear

He didn’t steal anything. He just published it. Manning stole it.

Doesn’t that usually fall under “accessory after the fact”?

286 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:08:23pm

Here’s a page I put up yesterday with a link to an article that asks (and then tries to answer) the question: How could Bradley Manning Alone have Leaked So Much Information?

287 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:08:34pm

re: #269 reine.de.tout

I can’t hear it when I press “listen”.
darn.

Sorry to hear that, I can sing it for you here:
pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk

Hilarious hey!!!

288 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #283 wrenchwench

OK, then are you NOT saying that Manning or Assange have the right to steal and leak information?

I wasn’t commenting on the possibility of banning encryption.

Manning had less than no right. He had an obligation to make sure it didn’t happen.

I have no idea what jurisdiction Assange currently falls under, so I have no idea if he had the right to publish what he did (if he indeed did publish it, again I reiterate that WL is not a 1 man shop) or not. Morally he had no reason to, other than anti-Americanism.

289 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #275 McSpiff

Unless you were actually following the discussion leading up to #235.

I was following it. You’re completely unable to substantiate your opinion, and are now just alluding to how I don’t get it. That’s incredibly weak.

The discussion about Assange has nothing to do with encryption. The discussion of encryption came from Fozzie’s #197; it’s about an Obama adminsitration proposal to make all internet transmissions potentially tappable. That is something that would actually be a goddamn boon to people like Assange, for fuck’s sake.

You just smushed together two different conversations: one about the risks about going too far in attacking Assange’s releases of information being bad for the net, and one about weakening encryption being bad for the net.

290 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:09:01pm

re: #277 wrenchwench

I have two siblings who work as translators in Germany. Of course they hate Google Translate, but they might like this.

OK, what does it say? For some reason when I click “listen”, it does NOTHING at all.

291 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:09:11pm

re: #282 McSpiff

Very few comments here are made in isolation. Read Fuzzy’s comments leading up to that and its very clear he (and I) were discussing encryption.

Sure. But I am reading comments now where Kilgore mentions wikileaks’ illegal activities, and you counter with with something on free speech rights and encryption.

Your responses there make no sense.

292 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:09:50pm

re: #272 Walter L. Newton

“Being There”

Close but no cigar.

Actually the quote is not verbatim, so that probably doesn’t help.
But it is the gist of it.

293 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:10:00pm

re: #285 Slumbering Behemoth

Doesn’t that usually fall under “accessory after the fact”?

If he were subject to our laws, which he isn’t, it might be.

My larger point is that what Assange is doing is not preventable without taking draconian measures. What Manning did, however, is where the rubber meets the road, and without that, Assange has nothing.

294 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:10:41pm

re: #292 ozbloke

Close but no cigar.

Actually the quote is not verbatim, so that probably doesn’t help.
But it is the gist of it.

My “Being There” answer was a joke… see my next comment after that… “Good WIll Hunting”

295 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:10:41pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

I’m sorry to break it to you but that’s not factually accurate. He’s an extremist libertarian. There is some crossover support just like Ron Paul but he’s been very clear about his political views.

You mean Assange, right? I think Manning may not so much be a political animal. And if there was a cultivated relationship, as suggested by blueraven in #170, Manning may be some kind of victim. But I suspect he was wholly a volunteer.

296 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:10:54pm

re: #284 ozbloke

McSpiff,

I’m really not all up to speed on this topic, but Manning didn’t hack at anything.

If there were no dvd/cd burners there is nothing that I have seen that would indicate that this leak would have occurred.

Please set me straight if I missed something.

USB drives, email, there are methods to move information from secure to insecure computers, Hell, you can record things with TEMPEST equipment, or take screenshots with a cell phone. Ultimately technology can help, but its a personnel issue. I’ve heard people argue we’re giving way too many 20 year old kids security clearances when they haven’t really shown themselves responsible. Maybe there is a point there.

297 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:10:54pm

re: #276 Walter L. Newton

Good Will Hunting… but I’ve never seen it… have it… never seen it.

STRIKE two, a swing and a miss.

Won’t keep you much longer…

298 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:12:23pm

re: #289 Obdicut

I’ve pointed out the posts, either you agree with my reading of it or you don’t. Clearly you don’t.

299 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:12:25pm

re: #290 reine.de.tout

OK, what does it say? For some reason when I click “listen”, it does NOTHING at all.

It’s a nice rhythm, like brushes on a drum kit. Not like “boom shaka boom shaka…” but kind of.

300 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:12:34pm

re: #268 Gus 802


Don’t be sorry because you don’t really have any facts as to his association other than Assange having said he was “inspired” by some libertarianism ideas.


Ok.

301 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:12:59pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

My “Being There” answer was a joke… see my next comment after that… “Good WIll Hunting”

Sorry I missed your joke.

It was Arlington Road.
I enjoyed that movie.

302 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:13:20pm

re: #296 McSpiff

That much you’re right about. There’s no way to technologically stop leaks. In the end, the more people you allow access to the information, the greater the chance the information will be compromised— even totally by accident.

303 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:13:36pm

re: #293 Fozzie Bear

If he were subject to our laws, which he isn’t, it might be.

Are we certain of that? If someone kidnaps kids from the states, and sends them to a brothel over seas, isn’t there something we can do about the brothel owner? I don’t know how that stuff works, just wondering out loud.

My larger point is that what Assange is doing is not preventable without taking draconian measures.

I don’t think that’s entirely true.

What Manning did, however, is where the rubber meets the road, and without that, Assange has nothing.

This, however, is entirely true.

304 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:13:54pm

re: #292 ozbloke

Close but no cigar.

Actually the quote is not verbatim, so that probably doesn’t help.
But it is the gist of it.

Ha! Then it is not a quote.

305 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:13:55pm

re: #297 ozbloke

STRIKE two, a swing and a miss.

Won’t keep you much longer…

Why not? Even THE best hitters succeed less than 1/3rd of the time!
/

306 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:14:05pm

Need. Cigarette. Must. Control. Self. Rage.

307 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:14:59pm

re: #306 Gus 802

Need. Cigarette. Must. Control. Self. Rage.

Can you twist a towel? That helped me.

308 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:15:02pm

re: #306 Gus 802

Need. Cigarette. Must. Control. Self. Rage.

One word

VODKA

309 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:15:08pm

re: #306 Gus 802

Need. Cigarette. Must. Control. Self. Rage.

Have you decided to quit, or are you just out of smokes?

310 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:15:43pm

re: #302 Obdicut

That much you’re right about. There’s no way to technologically stop leaks. In the end, the more people you allow access to the information, the greater the chance the information will be compromised— even totally by accident.

I’ve seen it happen by accident. I will say without technology you can’t leak the number of documents as quickly, but there is literally no way to stop someone you trust from ripping you off. Threatened them with death even, still happens.

311 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:15:44pm

re: #307 prairiefire

Can you twist a towel? That helped me.


Is that what you kids call it nowadays!

312 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:16:18pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

Have you decided to quit, or are you just out of smokes?

Out of smokes. I’m about to lose my internet connection within the next 48 hours too. The assholes said on the 2nd. And I’m about out of food.

313 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:16:55pm

re: #307 prairiefire

Can you twist a towel? That helped me.

You mean like Towelie? Nah. Don’t have any of that.

314 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:17:00pm

re: #296 McSpiff

USB drives, email, there are methods to move information from secure to insecure computers, Hell, you can record things with TEMPEST equipment, or take screenshots with a cell phone. Ultimately technology can help, but its a personnel issue. I’ve heard people argue we’re giving way too many 20 year old kids security clearances when they haven’t really shown themselves responsible. Maybe there is a point there.

You are correct, there are many ways to transfer data, but that would be a ‘large’ attachment, it also presumes they can email an external address from the internal network.
I want a cell phone that could hold all the photos.

I believe this specific case requires answers higher up than from Manning, serious, Manning this time who next time.

There was a serious issue here of security that nobody wants to talk about.

315 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:17:16pm

re: #295 wrenchwench

You mean Assange, right? I think Manning may not so much be a political animal. And if there was a cultivated relationship, as suggested by blueraven in #170, Manning may be some kind of victim. But I suspect he was wholly a volunteer.

Good points. I do assume there was some sort of political motivation by Manning although we can’t be certain to what that might be. Since he wasn’t paid (was he?) I assume he had some sort of motivation. I don’t think Assange could solicit people directly to steal documents. That would just be too dangerous and he would almost certainly be arrested if he tried. I’m pretty sure he has to wait for people to come to him with stolen documents.

316 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:17:39pm

re: #314 ozbloke

You are correct, there are many ways to transfer data, but that would be a ‘large’ attachment, it also presumes they can email an external address from the internal network.
I want a cell phone that could hold all the photos.

I believe this specific case requires answers higher up than from Manning, serious, Manning this time who next time.

There was a serious issue here of security that nobody wants to talk about.

O agreed, the volume here indicates a total and complete failure of security.

317 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:17:40pm

re: #298 McSpiff

It’s not that I don’t agree with your reading of it, it’s that the reading of it you’re claiming makes no sense in any way. The discussion about encryption is in no way relevant to the discussion about Assange, Killgore never said word one about it, and you just confused the hell out of yourself, apparently. Killgore never said anything that in any way showed, at all, that he was in favor of banning strong encryption. I don’t get why you can’t just admit that you fucked up and thought he was saying something other than what he was, or whatever reason it was you made a totally-off base charge.

318 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:17:51pm

re: #303 Slumbering Behemoth

Are we certain of that? If someone kidnaps kids from the states, and sends them to a brothel over seas, isn’t there something we can do about the brothel owner? I don’t know how that stuff works, just wondering out loud.

I don’t think that’s entirely true.

This, however, is entirely true.

The only way to stop people from posting things anonymously on the internet is to attack the infrastructure of the internet itself, including the practice of tunneling (i.e., using encryption to mask communications). If you remove Assange from the equasion, nothing is accomplished.

If, however, you don’t let douchebags in the military have access to USB ports, Wireless cards, DVD/CD drives, etc. on the same computer they have access to secured data, then none of this could ever have happened in the first place.

The source of the leaks was the leaker, and the half-assed practices that allowed it to happen. THIS is what people should be pissed about. THIS is what caused this. THIS is what gives Assange his 15 minutes.

None of this would have or could have happened if the “air gap” had been properly maintained.

319 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:18:54pm

re: #317 Obdicut

What point exactly are you trying to prove? I think you’re wrong, you think I am, the rest of the discussion has moved on. Not worth getting upset over Obi.

320 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:18:59pm

re: #310 McSpiff

I’ve seen it happen by accident. I will say without technology you can’t leak the number of documents as quickly, but there is literally no way to stop someone you trust from ripping you off. Threatened them with death even, still happens.

Then stop using trust as a substitute for actual security practices, imo.

(not talking to you, really, talking to our rather technologically inept military)

321 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:19:09pm

re: #318 Fozzie Bear

More importantly, none of this could have happened if Manning’s commanding officers had had the least idea what was up with him.

322 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:19:14pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Shit, that sucks. Wish I could help, but I ain’t even got fade on a postage stamp. Hit the local food bank if you need too. Good luck.

323 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:19:32pm

re: #312 Gus 802

{Gus}

324 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:20:26pm

re: #318 Fozzie Bear

The only way to stop people from posting things anonymously on the internet is to attack the infrastructure of the internet itself, including the practice of tunneling (i.e., using encryption to mask communications). If you remove Assange from the equasion, nothing is accomplished.

If, however, you don’t let douchebags in the military have access to USB ports, Wireless cards, DVD/CD drives, etc. on the same computer they have access to secured data, then none of this could ever have happened in the first place.

The source of the leaks was the leaker, and the half-assed practices that allowed it to happen. THIS is what people should be pissed about. THIS is what caused this. THIS is what gives Assange his 15 minutes.

None of this would have or could have happened if the “air gap” had been properly maintained.

There is no way to have a public internet where something like wikileaks is impossible. That’s just the groundfloor theory of thing, a network of peers. Anything else, you have a network but it ain’t the interent.

325 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:20:29pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Out of smokes. I’m about to lose my internet connection within the next 48 hours too. The assholes said on the 2nd. And I’m about out of food.

I’ll do this just one more time, I’ve mentioned it before, you know how to contact me, emails and phone numbers, if you need something, get in touch.

326 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:20:56pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Out of smokes. I’m about to lose my internet connection within the next 48 hours too. The assholes said on the 2nd. And I’m about out of food.

Ahh shit dude. I hope you can find a way to get by. I’ve spent the past few months secretly eating Ramen and pretending I wasn’t hungry while my wife eats better food, lol. I hope it gets better.

327 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:21:37pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

I’ll do this just one more time, I’ve mentioned it before, you know how to contact me, emails and phone numbers, if you need something, get in touch.

You’re much friendlier in private as well. Down right nice even.

328 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:21:59pm

re: #312 Gus 802

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

I’ll do this just one more time, I’ve mentioned it before, you know how to contact me, emails and phone numbers, if you need something, get in touch.

GUS

What Walter said ,,,, goes for me too@!

329 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #327 McSpiff

You’re much friendlier in private as well. Down right nice even.

Shhhhh!!!

330 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:22:30pm

re: #319 McSpiff

Heh. I’m not in the least bit upset. I’m just mystified by why you’d make a completely nonsensical accusation and then not even be able to bring yourself to admit that you fucked up, instead retreating to a “Well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man,” defense. If you seriously still think Killgore was advocating banning strong encryption, then something even weirder is at work here.

You can stop the conversation any time by just not replying to any post I make on it. It’s not hard.

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:23:12pm

re: #318 Fozzie Bear

The only way to stop people from posting things anonymously on the internet is to attack the infrastructure of the internet itself, including the practice of tunneling (i.e., using encryption to mask communications). If you remove Assange from the equasion, nothing is accomplished.

Maybe, maybe not. I am not as savvy on the tech as some folks here. Is P.Bay still operating?

If, however, you don’t let douchebags in the military have access to USB ports, Wireless cards, DVD/CD drives, etc. on the same computer they have access to secured data, then none of this could ever have happened in the first place.

The source of the leaks was the leaker, and the half-assed practices that allowed it to happen. THIS is what people should be pissed about. THIS is what caused this. THIS is what gives Assange his 15 minutes.

None of this would have or could have happened if the “air gap” had been properly maintained.

Agreed. I still think Assange and crew are “accessories after the fact” skuzballs, though.

332 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:24:06pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

I’ll do this just one more time, I’ve mentioned it before, you know how to contact me, emails and phone numbers, if you need something, get in touch.

Thanks Walter. We’ll see what happens. If I disappear it means my ISP cut me off.

333 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:24:36pm

re: #318 Fozzie Bear

The only way to stop people from posting things anonymously on the internet is to attack the infrastructure of the internet itself, including the practice of tunneling (i.e., using encryption to mask communications). If you remove Assange from the equasion, nothing is accomplished.

If, however, you don’t let douchebags in the military have access to USB ports, Wireless cards, DVD/CD drives, etc. on the same computer they have access to secured data, then none of this could ever have happened in the first place.

The source of the leaks was the leaker, and the half-assed practices that allowed it to happen. THIS is what people should be pissed about. THIS is what caused this. THIS is what gives Assange his 15 minutes.

None of this would have or could have happened if the “air gap” had been properly maintained.

A fucking DVD burner, in the machine, that the staff are allowed to use.

If it happened in a movie plot, I would be walking out thinking, thats just too unbelievable.

334 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:24:37pm

re: #313 Gus 802

What is your line of work, anyway, Gus?

And ditto— feel free to hit me up for interwebs privileges. Happy to provide.

335 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:25:01pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe, maybe not. I am not as savvy on the tech as some folks here. Is P.Bay still operating?

Yep. Even more decentralized now then ever. Only thing that can really be siezed at this point is the actual domain name. All the data has been effectively moved into their ‘cloud’ of users, and servers all over europe I believe.


Agreed. I still think Assange and crew are “accessories after the fact” skuzballs, though.

336 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:25:31pm

Is the re: #333 ozbloke

A fucking DVD burner, in the machine, that the staff are allowed to use.

If it happened in a movie plot, I would be walking out thinking, thats just too unbelievable.

Question for the techies: If they had been allowed to bring in an MP3 player, could it have compromised security in any way?

337 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:25:44pm

BBL,, early dinner then my nap before heading in to work

338 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:25:49pm

re: #302 Obdicut

Leaks will occur - it’s how to manage the fallout and limiting the damage that is key.

Not sure what the technological answers to that problem are, but it may be something akin to data being self-limited (read only status can’t be copied or moved onto portable systems by those who lack necessary clearances for example). It would also require better supervision over those who have access to the data path.

It might also mean rejiggering the classified/secret status of documents, reducing the number of classified documents and increasing the number of secret documents so that the number of people who have potential access to particularly sensitive documents is more limited but that such key information can still get to who needs it in a timely fashion. It’s a balancing act.

339 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:26:25pm

re: #336 EmmmieG

Is the

Question for the techies: If they had been allowed to bring in an MP3 player, could it have compromised security in any way?

Can’t say yes for sure, but there are many ways an MP3 player hooked up to a computer could do bad things.

340 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:26:27pm

re: #336 EmmmieG

Is the

Question for the techies: If they had been allowed to bring in an MP3 player, could it have compromised security in any way?

Sure. Lot’s of mp3 players allow you to store all manner of files right out of the box.

341 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:27:05pm

re: #334 Obdicut

What is your line of work, anyway, Gus?

And ditto— feel free to hit me up for interwebs privileges. Happy to provide.

Drafting. I’m mostly like an unlicensed architect. I always let clients know that I’m not a licensed architect. Right now there’s just about zero construction going on.

342 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:27:33pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe, maybe not. I am not as savvy on the tech as some folks here. Is P.Bay still operating?


Pirate Bay is a perfect example. You could shut it down, and it won’t change a damn thing, because what they do is simply impossible to stop without destroying the internet. It can’t be done on an open distributed network, period. Not even theoretically possible.

Agreed. I still think Assange and crew are “accessories after the fact” skuzballs, though.


That’s a separate issue. As far as I am concerned, the bizarre media and government focus on Assange rather than shitty security here in the US is alarming. It signals that this will be used as a justification of things to come which I will not like. It signals a lack of understanding of what happened. It’s a major red flag.

343 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:27:37pm

How about an 8-track?

Listening endlessly to old Charo and Sonny & Cher tapes would be an adequate punishment for the top brass, I think.

344 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:28:19pm

re: #336 EmmmieG

Is the

Question for the techies: If they had been allowed to bring in an MP3 player, could it have compromised security in any way?

Not without USB ports, bluetooth, or something else to link in to.

345 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:28:22pm

re: #338 lawhawk

Leaks will occur - it’s how to manage the fallout and limiting the damage that is key.

Not sure what the technological answers to that problem are, but it may be something akin to data being self-limited (read only status can’t be copied or moved onto portable systems by those who lack necessary clearances for example). It would also require better supervision over those who have access to the data path.

It might also mean rejiggering the classified/secret status of documents, reducing the number of classified documents and increasing the number of secret documents so that the number of people who have potential access to particularly sensitive documents is more limited but that such key information can still get to who needs it in a timely fashion. It’s a balancing act.

2.5 million people have Secret or above if I recall. And I don’t think that counts people like me with clearances through NATO countries that gives you access to some US documents. I think the whole ‘Secret’ classification is broken.

346 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:28:49pm

re: #344 Fozzie Bear

Not without USB ports, bluetooth, or something else to link in to.

Epoxy on the ports goes a hell of a long way…

347 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:29:25pm

re: #341 Gus 802

Ah, I see. Well, I’ve got one buddy who’s a city architect for New York, but I somehow doubt they’re throwing around mad cash for externals at the moment. But don’t be shy about asking for help if it’s down to the wire, though if pride interferes I quite understand.

Nic is blue.

348 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:30:50pm

re: #338 lawhawk

Leaks will occur - it’s how to manage the fallout and limiting the damage that is key.

Not sure what the technological answers to that problem are, but it may be something akin to data being self-limited (read only status can’t be copied or moved onto portable systems by those who lack necessary clearances for example). It would also require better supervision over those who have access to the data path.

It might also mean rejiggering the classified/secret status of documents, reducing the number of classified documents and increasing the number of secret documents so that the number of people who have potential access to particularly sensitive documents is more limited but that such key information can still get to who needs it in a timely fashion. It’s a balancing act.

If data can be read (at the file level) at all, it can be copied. There isn’t any way to avoid this. All you can do is secure the physical machine that it is being viewed on, the network that contains the data, and the behavior of the person using said computer.

Self-limiting self-destroying files that are still readable in any way are not possible to secure. All you can do is prevent the files from leaving a secure environment in the first place.

349 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:30:52pm

re: #336 EmmmieG

Is the

Question for the techies: If they had been allowed to bring in an MP3 player, could it have compromised security in any way?

Not without either physically connecting or a wifi connection to the desktop system, or network server. Its all fairly security 101.

A DVD burner
Tee hee hee…

A couple of minutes later
Tee hee hee

350 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:31:00pm

re: #342 Fozzie Bear

I think this is the perfect example:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

351 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #342 Fozzie Bear

That’s a separate issue. As far as I am concerned, the bizarre media and government focus on Assange rather than shitty security here in the US is alarming. It signals that this will be used as a justification of things to come which I will not like. It signals a lack of understanding of what happened. It’s a major red flag.

Of course, the main focus should be on preventing leaks like this from happening again. At least, that is what I think should be the primary lesson from this.

Still does not change the fact that wikileaks is disseminating stolen, classified info.

352 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:32:17pm

re: #346 McSpiff

Epoxy on the ports goes a hell of a long way…

I could get USB access to a box within 15 seconds, epoxy or no epoxy, unless the box is physically inaccessible to me. The only way is to put the machine itself behind a physical wall, and route the monitor, mouse, and keyboard through the wall.

353 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:32:42pm

re: #352 Fozzie Bear

(and it better not be a USB mouse or keyboard PS/2 is the only way to do it securely)

354 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:34:03pm

re: #351 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course, the main focus should be on preventing leaks like this from happening again. At least, that is what I think should be the primary lesson from this.

Still does not change the fact that wikileaks is disseminating stolen, classified info.

And half the media around the world.

355 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:34:40pm

re: #354 ozbloke

And half the media around the world.

Perhaps publishing, not disseminating, forgive me.

356 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:35:16pm

re: #353 Fozzie Bear

(and it better not be a USB mouse or keyboard PS/2 is the only way to do it securely)

Yep. Strip the wire, daisy chain the drive. Have firewire access? Can probably run code with kernel privileges.

Technology can’t solve this problem, it can just be a tool we use. The system shoulda flagged this guy for accessing anywhere near 100k documents IMHO.

357 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:37:18pm

re: #347 Obdicut

Ah, I see. Well, I’ve got one buddy who’s a city architect for New York, but I somehow doubt they’re throwing around mad cash for externals at the moment. But don’t be shy about asking for help if it’s down to the wire, though if pride interferes I quite understand.

Nic is blue.

Just sent you a note using my extra double secret email address.

358 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:37:27pm

re: #355 ozbloke

Perhaps publishing, not disseminating, forgive me.

No! I fucking hate you now!
///:P

Goin’ upstairs.

359 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:38:03pm

re: #353 Fozzie Bear

(and it better not be a USB mouse or keyboard PS/2 is the only way to do it securely)

You would think they could use proprietary usb ports.
However, this was a DVD burner, are any other techies scratching their heads over this?

360 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:40:25pm

re: #359 ozbloke

You would think they could use proprietary usb ports.
However, this was a DVD burner, are any other techies scratching their heads over this?

Well, yes and no. We use them to transfer documents onto systems that are air gapped from the world. But…there’s like 2 of them in the office. Separate machines, big procedure, involves biometric thumb drives. Not exactly something you can subtly do.

361 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:41:19pm

re: #356 McSpiff

Yep. Strip the wire, daisy chain the drive. Have firewire access? Can probably run code with kernel privileges.

Technology can’t solve this problem, it can just be a tool we use. The system shoulda flagged this guy for accessing anywhere near 100k documents IMHO.

99% of hacking has nothing to do with the computers themselves. Most of it has to do with people. Shoulder surfing, IP spoofing, etc. Any way you can convince someone to enter their login information in the wrong place, or get them to just tell you the information. A phone call pretending to be IP. A lingering nosy pizza delivery person.

These are the ways hacking is often done. Fancy mission-impossible style shit is extremely rare.

362 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:44:09pm

re: #361 Fozzie Bear

99% of hacking has nothing to do with the computers themselves. Most of it has to do with people. Shoulder surfing, IP spoofing, etc. Any way you can convince someone to enter their login information in the wrong place, or get them to just tell you the information. A phone call pretending to be IP. A lingering nosy pizza delivery person.

These are the ways hacking is often done. Fancy mission-impossible style shit is extremely rare.

Yep. Good old social engineering.

Also, I was wrong when I stated Assange was more of a spokesmen, he describes himself as an editor in chief. My mistake

363 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:47:03pm

re: #360 McSpiff

Well, yes and no. We use them to transfer documents onto systems that are air gapped from the world. But…there’s like 2 of them in the office. Separate machines, big procedure, involves biometric thumb drives. Not exactly something you can subtly do.

It’s also worth repeating: encrypt every file with a unique key, distribute hashes (not the actual keys) designed to work for a limited period of time, as needed. Change the hashes on the server end on a regular basis, say every 24 hours. This is how you secure large quantities of secret data which need to be accessible. That way, if someone tries to gain access to something they shouldn’t, not only will they get nothing more than encrypted garbage (if they get anything at all), but you can then track whose key was used.

364 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:47:08pm

It wouldn’t be hard to squeeze in 250,000 documents on a 32 GB USB flash card.

365 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:48:16pm

re: #364 Gus 802

It wouldn’t be hard to squeeze in 250,000 documents on a 32 GB USB flash card.

Yep. As storage gets larger and networks get faster, such things can be done in a matter of a couple of seconds, almost regardless of the number of files or their size.

366 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:48:38pm

You can even get a 256 GB flash card these days.

[Link: www.newegg.com…]

367 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:49:03pm

re: #363 Fozzie Bear

It’s also worth repeating: encrypt every file with a unique key, distribute hashes (not the actual keys) designed to work for a limited period of time, as needed. Change the hashes on the server end on a regular basis, say every 24 hours. This is how you secure large quantities of secret data which need to be accessible. That way, if someone tries to gain access to something they shouldn’t, not only will they get nothing more than encrypted garbage (if they get anything at all), but you can then track whose key was used.

Yup, I think that echos the point that a total lack of access controls in place here is the major screw up. Cables from the 60’s were released. Absolutely no reason for those to be accessible by Manning.

368 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:00:19pm

re: #365 Fozzie Bear

Yep. As storage gets larger and networks get faster, such things can be done in a matter of a couple of seconds, almost regardless of the number of files or their size.

Not using USB 2.0 you won’t.

369 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:03:30pm

re: #368 ozbloke

Not using USB 2.0 you won’t.

USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0

Still wont happen in a couple of seconds.

370 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:08:39pm

re: #368 ozbloke

Not using USB 2.0 you won’t.

re: #369 ozbloke

USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0

Still wont happen in a couple of seconds.

My point is, the size of pdf’s and text documents isn’t changing with time. The speed of computers is increasing exponentially. 250k text/pdf documents is NOT a huge amount of actual bits for a computer to copy or transfer. Give it a couple more years.

371 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:18:16pm

re: #370 Fozzie Bear

re: #369 ozbloke

My point is, the size of pdf’s and text documents isn’t changing with time. The speed of computers is increasing exponentially. 250k text/pdf documents is NOT a huge amount of actual bits for a computer to copy or transfer. Give it a couple more years.

AhHar, I see your cunning plan, using PDF’s as examples.

I remember freaking out when I typed “Hello world” into a word doc, saved it, and looked at the size, I think it was 16k.

I could not believe it.

Bill Gates:
No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer. - said in the early 1970s

Forgive me, but I still can’t get my head around 250000 documents being copied to a DVD burner.

Pitiful

372 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:29:38pm

Heh.

On Good Morning America, Christine O’Donnell says Scarborough’s criticism of Sarah Palin “sounded like whining”

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:31:49pm

I didn’t have much love for Joe. But judging by the latest MM headlines he’s been better and better!

[Link: mediamatters.org…]

Scarborough: “At this point if jackasses out there question [Obama’s] faith, they’re just haters”
Scarborough suggests that he may leave the Republican party for a “conservative” party that doesn’t “engag[e] in Wilsonian wars”
Scarborough: Islamic center is an issue for people who “believe what Glenn Beck says, that [Obama is] a racist”
Scarborough shoots down Krauthammer’s comparison of Islamic center to Japan “planting their flag at Pearl Harbor”
Scarborough: Gingrich’s comments “reckless and irresponsible”
Scarborough: Gingrich’s inflammatory rhetoric regarding NYC mosque “sends a horrific statement across the world”
Scarborough: “A lot of people outraged by the president stating what is constitutionally obvious”
Scarborough mocks Republicans for attacking Thurgood Marshall during Kagan hearing
Scarborough: Fox “is the only organizing institution for the GOP”
Scarborough: People will “hyperventilat[e]” over Obama’s “ass to kick” comment because they’re “idiots”

374 mdey  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:36:08pm

Has Palin posted a Facebook tantrum against Scarborough yet? If not, it should be coming soon.


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Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
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