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1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 1:59:28pm

So...irreducible complexity is now reducibly simple?

(So sorry, couldn't resist.)

2 researchok  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:11:42pm

Excellent video.

I especially liked the court references- you can't throw BS in a courtroom and expect it to stick.

They got nuthin'.

3 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:16:04pm

Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's irreducibly complex.

The whole concept of irreducible complexity relies on the idea that things happen for a reason, as opposed to just happening because other things happened, and that's just what happened.

If you think that the universe has a plan, it's hard to understand that mutations happen regardless of need, and THEN, later when the environment changes, some of these mutations become adaptive, and are selected for. In order to think that ID holds water, you have to believe that evolution posits that mutations are "tested for fitness" as they occur, rather than lingering in the genome until such time as they are expressed AND prove to be adaptive/maladaptive. It requires not understanding that a simple transcription error can turn a DNA "stop" instruction into a link to a larger protein. Basically, it requires not understanding a single fucking thing about genetics, and how genes are turned into proteins, and how proteins interact.

Eyes didn't evolve overnight, but they did evolve.

4 freetoken  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:17:52pm

Time for a creationism update:

Beshear to announce 'Ark Encounter' theme park to be developed by N. Kentucky Creation Museum

Gov. Steve Beshear and Answers in Genesis, which operates the Creation Museum in Northern Kentucky, will unveil plans Wednesday for a creationism-themed amusement park.

The theme park, to be called Ark Encounter, will be in Grant County near the Veteran's Cemetery, according to The Cincinnati Enquirer.

The attraction is envisioned as a full-scale wooden ark that would include associated museums, theaters, amenities, event venues and outdoor parking.

Preliminary indications are that the attraction could draw as many as 1.6 million guests per year and would cost $24.5 million to build.

Joining Beshear will be Ken Ham, founder of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum, and Grant County Judge-Executive Darrell Link.

[...]

It should be noted that Beshear is a Democratic party member.

Is this where I throw in something snarky about Kentucky?

5 3eff Jeff  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:19:58pm

re: #3 Fozzie Bear

Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's irreducibly complex.

Exactly. Also, every example I've heard them come up with has been explained by biologists shortly after they pointed it out (if biologists hadn't already figured it out).

Eyes didn't evolve overnight, but they did evolve.

"Evolve" kind of implies "not overnight" :)

6 Aye Pod  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:20:22pm

re: #3 Fozzie Bear

Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's irreducibly complex.

The whole concept of irreducible complexity relies on the idea that things happen for a reason, as opposed to just happening because other things happened, and that's just what happened.

If you think that the universe has a plan, it's hard to understand that mutations happen regardless of need, and THEN, later when the environment changes, some of these mutations become adaptive, and are selected for. In order to think that ID holds water, you have to believe that evolution posits that mutations are "tested for fitness" as they occur, rather than lingering in the genome until such time as they are expressed AND prove to be adaptive/maladaptive. It requires not understanding that a simple transcription error can turn a DNA "stop" instruction into a link to a larger protein. Basically, it requires not understanding a single fucking thing about genetics, and how genes are turned into proteins, and how proteins interact.

Eyes didn't evolve overnight, but they did evolve.

But surely, if I don't understand X, then X cannot be.../

7 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:26:08pm

re: #4 freetoken

why, exactly, should it be noted that the dude is a Democrat? He's a crazy from Kentucky. Hell, there are a lot of southern "Democrats" that believe just as he does.

8 Aye Pod  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:32:24pm

re: #4 freetoken

Time for a creationism update:

Beshear to announce 'Ark Encounter' theme park to be developed by N. Kentucky Creation Museum

It should be noted that Beshear is a Democratic party member.

Is this where I throw in something snarky about Kentucky?

Bad movie idea no 457: "Night at the Creationist Museum".

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:36:36pm

re: #8 Jimmah

Bad movie idea no 457: "Night at the Creationist Museum".

The Sodom & Gomorrah room would be...interesting.

10 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:37:20pm

re: #7 Dreggas

why, exactly, should it be noted that the dude is a Democrat? He's a crazy from Kentucky. Hell, there are a lot of southern "Democrats" that believe just as he does.

Perhaps to illustrate that the GOP has not entirely cornered the market on crazy? And, as you seem to allude, that a member of Party A in State A will look and act nothing like a member of Party A in State B.

11 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:41:43pm

re: #8 Jimmah

Bad movie idea no 457: "Night at the Creationist Museum".

Starring Kirk Cameron as "The Night Watchman", and Ray Comfort as "Adam".

"A touching story of a night watchman who has lost his faith in a 6,000 year old earth, and how he regains it through the kind instruction of divinely animated museum exhibits."

12 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:42:42pm

re: #4 freetoken

this is where a whole bunch of internet 20 somethings wait with baited breath for that theme park to open so they can get on the really dark rides and take acid

13 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:43:32pm

re: #10 Slumbering Behemoth

Perhaps to illustrate that the GOP has not entirely cornered the market on crazy? And, as you seem to allude, that a member of Party A in State A will look and act nothing like a member of Party A in State B.

Republicans in Portland are probably a lot less likely to be crazy than Democrats from rural Kentucky :D

14 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:44:19pm

re: #8 Jimmah

Bad movie idea no 457: "Night at the Creationist Museum".

directed by Dario Argento

15 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:45:34pm

re: #13 WindUpBird

Republicans in Portland are probably a lot less likely to be crazy than Democrats from rural Kentucky :D

I'll wager that's true. And that breaks it down even further, into regional areas. Politicians in my little corner of CA, regardless of party affiliation, are gonna look and sound a whole lot different than their counterparts in SF.

16 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:48:52pm

OT: from Secular Coalition for America...

End Faith-Based Employment Discrimination Now!

The issue of religious discrimination in hiring for faith-based organizations receiving federal funds is a concern for the Secular Coalition for America and its members. People are fired or denied employment from federally funded religious institutions each year for failing to subscribe to a particular religious faith. In today’s tough economy, this means that in some cases people must choose whether to lie about their religious or nonreligious beliefs in order to get a job or risk losing their an existing job—while these organizations receive millions of your federal tax dollars.

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:49:25pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll wager that's true. And that breaks it down even further, into regional areas. Politicians in my little corner of CA, regardless of party affiliation, are gonna look and sound a whole lot different than their counterparts in SF.

There's this massive culture shock when you drive outside PDX and hit hillsboro, it's just completely unrecognizable as the same area. I knew people I worked with, people from that suburb who had literally never been to Portland. They were 30 minutes away! They'd just never been.

18 Aye Pod  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:49:37pm

re: #11 Slumbering Behemoth

Starring Kirk Cameron as "The Night Watchman", and Ray Comfort as "Adam".

"A touching story of a night watchman who has lost his faith in a 6,000 year old earth, and how he regains it through the kind instruction of divinely animated museum exhibits."

Being terrorised by the nightmare banana of atheism would be an obligatory scene too.

19 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:49:38pm

re: #13 WindUpBird

Republicans in Portland are probably a lot less likely to be crazy than Democrats from rural Kentucky :D

Their weed is going to be better, too.

20 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:51:25pm

poor kirk cameron, he really is nothing but a punchline anymore

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:51:55pm

re: #19 Jeff In Ohio

Their weed is going to be better, too.

That's only because they're getting it from Canada.
/:P

22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:52:55pm

re: #11 Slumbering Behemoth

With guest appearance by Stephen Baldwin.

23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:53:01pm

re: #20 WindUpBird

poor kirk cameron, he really is nothing but a punchline anymore

He's been left behind.

24 Aye Pod  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:53:14pm

re: #14 WindUpBird

directed by Dario Argento

Starring Barbara Steele as Michelle Bachman.

25 researchok  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:53:35pm

re: #18 Jimmah

Being terrorised by the nightmare banana of atheism would be an obligatory scene too.

Dressed in Nazi uniforms.

With Hitler and Hugo Chavez lookalikes.

26 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:54:01pm

re: #22 Dreggas

With guest appearance by Stephen Baldwin.

... as "The Neanderthal that Never Was".

27 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:54:38pm

re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth

That's only because they're getting it from Canada.
/:P

Ah, the Canadian Cartel. Kentucky pretty much invented ditchweed.

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:55:46pm

re: #27 Jeff In Ohio

Ah, the Canadian Cartel. Kentucky pretty much invented ditchweed.

That stuff's coming in from Mexico now.

/seal the border!

29 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:57:56pm

Good point about evolution not necessarily leading to greater complexity.

30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:58:39pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

given medical legalization here in Cali, I don't even know what bad weed is anymore.

31 garhighway  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 2:59:11pm

OT: Here's some fun: a video of Anderson Cooper with a Texas birther (a state rep) walking him through the inaccuracies in his belief system.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

32 JeffFX  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:01:00pm

re: #3 Fozzie Bear

Basically, it requires not understanding a single fucking thing about genetics, and how genes are turned into proteins, and how proteins interact.

Creationists seem to have missed out on genetics completely. They're still going on about Charles Darwin as if it were 1910 instead of 2010.

33 tigger2005  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:02:21pm

Great video. Wonder how many minds it would change though.

We are after all dealing with people who purposely ignore facts and evidence, and see nothing at all wrong with lying in the service of their beliefs, while at the same time insisting that all our country's problems would be solved if only the Ten Commandments...including that one that says "You shall not bear false witness"...were posted in public schools.

34 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:03:25pm

re: #32 JeffFX

Genetics is harder to attack since it is proven fact not a "theory" (of course evolution has pretty much been proven too).

35 tigger2005  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:04:09pm

re: #32 JeffFX

Creationists seem to have missed out on genetics completely. They're still going on about Charles Darwin as if it were 1910 instead of 2010.

The year of the Scopes "monkey trial" I presume.

But I think you could go all the way back to say 1865...

36 hellosnackbar  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:04:36pm

I don't know who this Qualia Soup chap is ;but his ability to wipe the floor
with anti- science people of faith is just tremendous.
Maybe someone ought to organise a tour of the Bible belt for him.
I'm looking forward to his next one.

37 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:06:26pm

re: #30 Dreggas

given medical legalization here in Cali, I don't even know what bad weed is anymore.

STFU. I'm sick man. I need my meds.

38 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:09:30pm

re: #37 Jeff In Ohio

??

39 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:10:20pm

re: #38 Dreggas

??

Just funning ya. Weed is really bad here. Really bad.

40 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:18:46pm

Instapundit is outraged...
Bureaucrats Gone Wild in Cancun

41 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:19:44pm

re: #38 Dreggas

??

He's just jealous. Ditch weed sucks.

42 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:20:13pm

“intelligent design.”

first i want proof of intelligent people

as a dog, i am working on the theory of intelligent bacon

43 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:24:26pm

re: #32 JeffFX

They missed out on the Modern Synthesis, that's for sure.

Science is so fucking cool. I don't get how people can't get hooked on it, and instead get fearful about it. It's got all the mystery and wonder of religious stuff, but in the end, you can actually get some answers.

44 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:24:33pm

Ha! That's funny. While I was watching the intro on the Bombardier beetle and saw hydrogen peroxide and the two "chambers" my first thought was "hmm this beetle could have been a rocket."

45 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:28:08pm

re: #39 Jeff In Ohio

I figured as much, just wanted to be sure. Here it's like going to a boutique, so many varieties to try. I know how bad some weed can be, have had to deal with it in the past.

46 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:28:32pm

Here's a gem from Tea Bagger Nation President Judson Phillips:

The Founding Fathers originally said, they put certain restrictions on who gets the right to vote. It wasn’t you were just a citizen and you got to vote. Some of the restrictions, you know, you obviously would not think about today. But one of those was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community. If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested interest in the community than non-property owners.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

HEY JUDSON, GET YOUR BALLS OFF MY FOREHEAD!

47 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:31:33pm

I need a nap. Later Obdicut. ;)

Later all.

48 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:32:21pm

re: #46 Jeff In Ohio

Fuck him. I rent responsibly rather than getting a mortgage that I might default on if money gets tight.

49 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:45:06pm

re: #46 Jeff In Ohio

Here's a gem from Tea Bagger Nation President Judson Phillips:

"...And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community..."

i knew they'd get around to this sooner or later. actually, i'm surprised that this moron doesn't think a 'vested stake' is a stick wearing a waistcoat

the roman plebians knew how to deal with idiots like this. they all left town for the week and let the patricians try running things without them

50 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:45:11pm

re: #46 Jeff In Ohio

Here's a gem from Tea Bagger Nation President Judson Phillips:

HEY JUDSON, GET YOUR BALLS OFF MY FOREHEAD!

Wow, what an incredible prick.

... But one of those was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community. If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested interest in the community than non-property owners.

This is just pure concentrated evil. If this isn't naked class warfare, nothing is.

51 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:47:36pm

re: #50 Fozzie Bear

Wow, what an incredible prick.

This is just pure concentrated evil. If this isn't naked class warfare, nothing is.

by that same token, consider multiple properties/locations...wtf?

52 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:47:52pm

re: #49 engineer dog

i knew they'd get around to this sooner or later. actually, i'm surprised that this moron doesn't think a 'vested stake' is a stick wearing a waistcoat

the roman plebians knew how to deal with idiots like this. they all left town for the week and let the patricians try running things without them

Sadly, that doesn't work in an industrialized age, since far less labor is actually needed to produce goods than is actually available. Unions (striking) used to be the way we "left town". but they have been all but gutted after generations of vilification by free marketeers.

53 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:48:46pm

re: #51 albusteve

by that same token, consider multiple properties/locations...wtf?

Yep. The implications of that statement are just EVIL. I can't even think of a better word to describe this shit. It's fucking evil.

54 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:49:29pm

re: #53 Fozzie Bear

Yep. The implications of that statement are just EVIL. I can't even think of a better word to describe this shit. It's fucking evil.

one for you, two for me....etc

55 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:51:10pm
56 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:53:30pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Big poverty is ripping us off!

Beck: "We have been sold a lie" that "the poor in America" are suffering

Wow.

Silly me, I always felt like not eating or having money to do things with blew goats. What a sucker I am!

57 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:56:07pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Big poverty is ripping us off!

Beck: "We have been sold a lie" that "the poor in America" are suffering

how can you do it, I'm mystified...Rev Beck is bad for me

58 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:56:10pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

I have been absolutely dirt-fucking poor, desperate to pay rent every month. Electricity turned off. Not eating for several days.

It wasn't as bad as being a Darfur War Orphan, but it was humiliating, stressful beyond belief, and incredibly physically uncomfortable.

When you're poor you know the price of everything.

Sapolsky has done some excellent and really depressing research demonstrating that being poor is pretty much inherently dangerous to your health, regardless of access to health care.

[Link: books.google.com...]

59 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 3:56:34pm

re: #34 Dreggas

Genetics is harder to attack since it is proven fact not a "theory" (of course evolution has pretty much been proven too).

Bad lizard, bad.

Perpetuation of the misunderstanding of 'fact' and theory is just asking for a quote mine.

60 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:00:04pm

I can't believe that Beck actually believes that the poor have it good here. NOBODY can be that fucking retarded. Has he ever seen a ghetto, even once, driving through even?

How can anybody be that dumb and not choke on their own spittle?

61 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:01:04pm

re: #50 Fozzie Bear

Wow, what an incredible prick.

This is just pure concentrated evil. If this isn't naked class warfare, nothing is.

That Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey Proudhon is having hisself a nice giggle.

62 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:04:26pm

re: #46 Jeff In Ohio

wow, what a repulsive human being


This isn't even politics anymore, these are just awful people saying awful things

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:06:41pm

re: #48 Obdicut

Fuck him. I rent responsibly rather than getting a mortgage that I might default on if money gets tight.

The idea that someone is a "better" voter or more a part of their community because of some financial decision they made, is really ridiculous and backward and laughable, and it's quite something that such stupid notions are spoken aloud.

Next we'll only let people who drive vote

64 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:07:00pm

re: #62 WindUpBird

It's class warfare of the most disgusting kind.

I don't get how a country that went through the Great Depression can have this ugliness towards the poor rearing its head again.

65 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:08:33pm

I was having a conversation with a neighbor. He's a nice man personally, but alas, a total teabagger politically.

He made the comment that the left politicizes everything, a statement which was amazing to me for it's lack of understanding of how politics works. (He was talking about AGW, which he earnestly believes to be a liberal scam.) I told him that literally anything can be politicized by simply by just loudly proclaiming that your opponent is wrong, and taking a stand counter to your opponent.

He just... didn't get it. How can you not get that? It's so incredibly simple, there's almost nothing to get.

HELP I'M SURROUNDED BY FUCKING MORONS

66 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:09:08pm

re: #64 Obdicut

It's class warfare of the most disgusting kind.

I don't get how a country that went through the Great Depression can have this ugliness towards the poor rearing its head again.

I think these people have gotten very good at isolating themselves and making sure they never really have to come across any idea that might challenge their prejudices

rural property owner wingnut who probably lives on a lot of cheap land thinks rural property owners are "better"

67 darthstar  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:11:31pm

Hey everyone...long fucking day. I've actually got a headache from one meeting (much banging head against the table as a PM proved he's done nothing the last two months).

68 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:11:44pm

This all has me so frustrated. The only thing I can think to do is wow pvp. I don't know why I get so much satisfaction out of killing the virtual avatars of actual people, but I do. It just makes it all better somehow.

I am a sick, sick man.

69 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:12:21pm

re: #58 Obdicut

I think the only reason I've never been that poor is I've almost always lived with like 4-6 other nerds in a big nerd house or whatever, and our rent was dirt cheap

70 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:13:34pm

re: #69 WindUpBird


I don't recommend it. No matter how hard you try not to let it get to you, it really is humiliating. We're hardwired, as primates, to be humiliated by it.

Friends are a very good way of subverting that system.

71 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:13:43pm

truly the plan to get ordinary downtrodden overworked americans to mouth the prejuduces of the wealthy, and to turn against people trying to help them, has worked very well

how much worse can it get when you regularly hear from these poor idiots how we should all kiss the asses of millionaires for being gracious enough to provide jobs for us?

72 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:13:54pm

re: #68 Fozzie Bear

This all has me so frustrated. The only thing I can think to do is wow pvp. I don't know why I get so much satisfaction out of killing the virtual avatars of actual people, but I do. It just makes it all better somehow.

I am a sick, sick man.

I have a drum kit, that pretty much is where most of my odium at the news and the balls crazy political climate is unleashed

73 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:14:07pm

This was quoted on TPM or some other tranzi progblog today: “There's class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning.”

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

74 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:15:34pm

re: #72 WindUpBird

I have a drum kit, that pretty much is where most of my odium at the news and the balls crazy political climate is unleashed

Wow, that sounds mighty cathartic.

I guess I'll just slaughter another small virtual village and collect some more ears. It's totally healthy, I assure you. ///

75 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:15:49pm

re: #72 WindUpBird

I have a drum kit, that pretty much is where most of my odium at the news and the balls crazy political climate is unleashed

I pump money into the slots, unmercifully

76 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:16:35pm

re: #75 albusteve

I pump money into the slots, unmercifully

Pumping slots can be very good for letting out frustrations.

(I couldn't help myself. Apologies)

77 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:17:13pm

re: #74 Fozzie Bear

Wow, that sounds mighty cathartic.

I guess I'll just slaughter another small virtual village and collect some more ears. It's totally healthy, I assure you. ///

you temper with age....every twit with an ax to grind becomes meaningless

78 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:19:17pm

re: #77 albusteve

you temper with age...every twit with an ax to grind becomes meaningless

I've made it to my mid thirties, and I must say the mellowing has only been at the edges so far. I mean, i'm less likely to ACTUALLY flip and lose my cool than when I was younger, i' still nearly as likely to get halfway there, if you catch what i'm saying.

Does the mellowing continue? God I hope so. I'm too high strung, or maybe just under too much stress. Hard to tell.

79 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:20:55pm

re: #78 Fozzie Bear

I've made it to my mid thirties, and I must say the mellowing has only been at the edges so far. I mean, i'm less likely to ACTUALLY flip and lose my cool than when I was younger, i' still nearly as likely to get halfway there, if you catch what i'm saying.

Does the mellowing continue? God I hope so. I'm too high strung, or maybe just under too much stress. Hard to tell.

At some point it becomes necessary to reverse the trend, and husband the anger.

80 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:21:10pm

re: #70 Obdicut

I don't recommend it. No matter how hard you try not to let it get to you, it really is humiliating. We're hardwired, as primates, to be humiliated by it.

Friends are a very good way of subverting that system.

At one time my share rent was $180 a month. And I didn't have a car. but yeah, friends are everything in such situations. One of the houses I lived in, it was funny, we had three penniless health care workers, one code wizard who worked for microsoft, a tech worker, and a private eye apprentice (old friend, we trusted him completely) who had no visible source of income and we were convinced he had some shady dealings happening o_o

81 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:22:22pm

re: #70 Obdicut

I have had a few dog days. It is humiliating. I can remember scrounging for change to put gas in the car. And any unexpected bill was a catastrophe.
Phew. It can get better.

82 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:23:22pm

re: #80 WindUpBird

I've worked with private detectives before (I work at a criminal defense firm, and so hiring them is a regular part of doing business) and I must say they are fascinating people, to the man.

These guys have THE BEST stories. I love drinking with them on fridays and prompting them for funny stories.

83 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:24:26pm

re: #78 Fozzie Bear

I've made it to my mid thirties, and I must say the mellowing has only been at the edges so far. I mean, i'm less likely to ACTUALLY flip and lose my cool than when I was younger, i' still nearly as likely to get halfway there, if you catch what i'm saying.

Does the mellowing continue? God I hope so. I'm too high strung, or maybe just under too much stress. Hard to tell.

I just look beyond the assholes, but it's hard when they count for influence no doubt....there are plenty of good hearted people all across this country and rather than bash the fools I try to reward kindness....otherwise I'd drive myself loony

84 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:24:37pm

re: #81 prairiefire

I'm fine now. In a good place, with a wife who's going to be an MD/PhD. But I'm never going to be able to pretend it's easy to be poor, or even easy to be doing 'okay'. Most people doing 'okay' are still facing quite a bit of strife, worry, and humiliation. And if they're not, it's because they're doing very, very well at financial management, and deserve respect for that, as well.

85 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:24:41pm

re: #81 prairiefire

I have had a few dog days. It is humiliating. I can remember scrounging for change to put gas in the car. And any unexpected bill was a catastrophe.
Phew. It can get better.

My skill as a child of six or so was to be boosted over the apartment transom and drop back inside our rented places to rescue my stuff and my mother's.

86 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:26:05pm

This must be bogus.

"Toleration is the greatest gift of the mind; it requires the same effort of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on a bicycle."
--Helen Keller

Helen Keller knows about riding a bicycle?

87 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:26:52pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

My skill as a child of six or so was to be boosted over the apartment transom and drop back inside our rented places to rescue my stuff and my mother's.

Hence the term "to boost".
Things were measurably better for me after getting a better job and a much more ethical life partner.

88 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

This must be bogus.

Helen Keller knows about riding a bicycle?

sounds fishy...

89 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:28:01pm

I think she tried to drive a car.

90 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:28:43pm

re: #88 brookly red

sounds fishy...

From what I read... she rode a bike rather well... stopping, avoiding, turning... not so good.

91 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:29:03pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

This must be bogus.

Helen Keller knows about riding a bicycle?

I think she back peddled years later

92 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:30:29pm

re: #89 prairiefire

I think she tried to drive a car.

/yeah... & I hear she had a drivers licence in New Jersey.

93 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:33:38pm
94 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:33:46pm

but I find HK jokes distasteful at best...

95 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:35:24pm

RedState's "go Sarah" thread now has 397 comments. That's "War And Peace" level of commenting for them.
"I Will Not Let The Elites Decide For Me"

96 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:38:33pm

re: #94 brookly red

but I find HK jokes distasteful at best...

true....this HK is no joke
[Link: www.kitsune.addr.com...]

97 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:40:03pm

re: #96 albusteve

true...this HK is no joke
[Link: www.kitsune.addr.com...]

When I said HK I knew someone would go there... I should have known who

98 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:40:19pm

re: #95 prairiefire

RedState's "go Sarah" thread now has 397 comments. That's "War And Peace" level of commenting for them.
"I Will Not Let The Elites Decide For Me"

how courageous, seeing as how she represents the elite

99 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:41:08pm

re: #97 brookly red

When I said HK I knew someone would go there... I should have known who

then we are at one

100 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:41:36pm

re: #99 albusteve

then we are at one

jah

101 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:43:27pm

re: #98 albusteve

how courageous, seeing as how she represents the elite

well technically (although I am no a Sarah hater) she IS the elite...

102 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:44:01pm

re: #100 brookly red

jah

whatever happened to WhiteRasta?...he made me promises

103 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:44:37pm

re: #101 brookly red

well technically (although I am no a Sarah hater) she IS the elite...

what I meant Juji

104 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:45:03pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

This must be bogus.

Helen Keller knows about riding a bicycle?

I'm sure she probably convinced someone to take her for a ride on a tandem at some point, the woman lived large.

105 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:45:20pm

re: #102 albusteve

whatever happened to WhiteRasta?...he made me promises

oh yeah... WR. I have no clue

106 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:46:39pm

re: #105 brookly red

oh yeah... WR. I have no clue

I couldn't drop a Jamaican place name he hadn't heard of...maybe he was born there

107 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:48:38pm

re: #104 goddamnedfrank

I'm sure she probably convinced someone to take her for a ride on a tandem at some point, the woman lived large.

That's less fun than imagining her blasting solo though Tuscumbia on a dare.

108 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:48:58pm
109 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:49:39pm

re: #104 goddamnedfrank

I'm sure she probably convinced someone to take her for a ride on a tandem at some point, the woman lived large.

I thought of that, because I know there are clubs that match sighted captains with blind stokers, but would being a stoker give a sense of "...the same effort of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on a bicycle."?

110 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:50:46pm

I was supposed to paint some walls today but I procrastinated like crazy. Ugh.

111 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:52:11pm

re: #106 albusteve

I couldn't drop a Jamaican place name he hadn't heard of...maybe he was born there

Oklahoma, or Arizona, what does it matter... :)

112 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:52:17pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Most likely the walls will still be there tomorrow.

113 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:52:24pm

re: #109 wrenchwench

I thought of that, because I know there are clubs that match sighted captains with blind stokers, but would being a stoker give a sense of "...the same effort of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on a bicycle."?

have you read her "Memoirs of Redondo Beach", the trials of her skateboarding adventures?

114 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:52:39pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I was supposed to paint some walls today but I procrastinated like crazy. Ugh.

One of my brothers signs his email with this:

I'll start with the procrastinating,
so at least that gets done.
--R. H. Stoll
115 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:53:12pm

re: #113 albusteve

have you read her "Memoirs of Redondo Beach", the trials of her skateboarding adventures?

Watch out, you'll piss off brookly....

116 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:53:52pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

Watch out, you'll piss off brookly...

that's the point....good eye

117 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:53:57pm

re: #113 albusteve

have you read her "Memoirs of Redondo Beach", the trials of her skateboarding adventures?

Last year, right after Thanksgiving, I started repairing/painting my dining room walls.

I finished in May.

What mostly got done was putting it off.

118 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:54:24pm

re: #116 albusteve

that's the point...good eye

could care less...

119 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:54:57pm

re: #117 reine.de.tout

Last year, right after Thanksgiving, I started repairing/painting my dining room walls.

I finished in May.

What mostly got done was putting it off.

and this atop a skateboard?....groovy

120 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:55:39pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

Watch out, you'll piss off brookly...

not worth wasting a drone one...

121 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:55:59pm

re: #119 albusteve

and this atop a skateboard?...groovy

CRAP.
That was supposed to be a response to Killgore's:
re: #110 Killgore Trout

I was supposed to paint some walls today but I procrastinated like crazy. Ugh.

I'm goofy in the haid today, looks like.

122 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:56:06pm

re: #112 Obdicut

Most likely the walls will still be there tomorrow.

I have to have it done by this weekend along with a bunch of other shit that I really don't want to do.

123 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:57:37pm

re: #121 reine.de.tout

CRAP.
That was supposed to be a response to Killgore's:
re: #110 Killgore Trout

I'm goofy in the haid today, looks like.

Yeah, I started stripping the wallpaper off some of these walls as long as 3 years ago. Took a bit longer than I anticipated.

124 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 4:59:11pm

re: #109 wrenchwench

I thought of that, because I know there are clubs that match sighted captains with blind stokers, but would being a stoker give a sense of "...the same effort of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on a bicycle."?

Probably not, but it's better than nothing. I'm not sure they had them back then, but I'm guessing with enough time and patience a deaf & blind person could learn how to balance on rollers. The effort required can be appreciated without mastery.

125 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:00:39pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I started stripping the wallpaper off some of these walls as long as 3 years ago. Took a bit longer than I anticipated.

Whoa!
I thought I set the record with my 6 month job.
3 years ago?
I have to laugh.

I have a bit of an excuse - the walls are painted panels, and they had, over time, developed gaps, so I had to spackle in the gaps. By the time I finished that job, the spackling had begun to crack (new gaps forming!). So I had to re-spackle using an elastic spackle that is supposed to give when the panels move from heating/cooling/house settling. That took the most time, and honestly, by the time I finished all of the spackling, I was disgusted and the painting took forever, even though it was the easiest part of the job.

126 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:02:10pm

re: #125 reine.de.tout

Shit. That reminds me that I was supposed to do some plaster work today too.

127 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:03:02pm

re: #124 goddamnedfrank

Probably not, but it's better than nothing. I'm not sure they had them back then, but I'm guessing with enough time and patience a deaf & blind person could learn how to balance on rollers. The effort required can be appreciated without mastery.

Helen Keller on Bike

[Link: www.disabilitymuseum.org...]

128 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:04:21pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Shit. That reminds me that I was supposed to do some plaster work today too.

a New Mexican at heart....there is always tomorrow amigo

129 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:05:17pm

re: #124 goddamnedfrank

Probably not, but it's better than nothing. I'm not sure they had them back then, but I'm guessing with enough time and patience a deaf & blind person could learn how to balance on rollers. The effort required can be appreciated without mastery.

You got that right. I tried 'em once. Got my heart rate up just from fear. After I fell off, I got back on just to show I could, and never tried again.

130 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:06:00pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

Helen Keller on Bike

[Link: www.disabilitymuseum.org...]

A side-by-side tandem! Thanks!

131 ozbloke  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:06:52pm

OT: Interpol issues arrest alert for WikiLeaks boss

Interpol has alerted member states to arrest WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange on suspicion of rape on the basis of a Swedish arrest warrant.

132 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:07:19pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Shit. That reminds me that I was supposed to do some plaster work today too.

oops.
Sorry!
:-)

133 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:09:16pm

re: #128 albusteve

a New Mexican at heart...there is always tomorrow amigo

The Italian version is "domani". That's "manana" without the sense of urgency.

134 spikester  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:11:39pm

re: #60 Fozzie Bear

I can't believe that Beck actually believes that the poor have it good here. NOBODY can be that fucking retarded. Has he ever seen a ghetto, even once, driving through even?

How can anybody be that dumb and not choke on their own spittle?


{and all you that upticked the remark}

I read your comment and what came to mind is NOBODY can be that fucking retarded
Have you ever been to a forgin country on anything other that spring brake. I've seen people in India that have been crippled, I mean arms and legs broken and healed crooked because they were to be the family beggar (hope of income, somebody had to do it) My guess is you have never slept on the street (unless it was to be the first in the door so you could get that hella cool shoot'm up game) never really been hungry. Go to Africa, Asia, South America I've taken that opportunity work with the uneducated in all these places and seen real poverty you twits.
At the risk of being ironic
re: #65 Fozzie Bear

HELP I'M SURROUNDED BY FUCKING MORONS

135 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:12:42pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

The Italian version is "domani". That's "manana" without the sense of urgency.

heh, pass the Red Stripe

136 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:15:02pm

re: #134 spikester

Idiot.

I've been to other countries and seen crushing poverty there. It sucks. It sucks worse than poverty here. That doesn't mean poverty here doesn't suck.

Your comment is one of those boring reductions that winds up with nobody but Darfur war orphans really having it bad.


HELP I'M SURROUNDED BY FUCKING MORONS

Easy solution. Leave.

137 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:15:45pm

re: #128 albusteve

a New Mexican at heart...there is always tomorrow amigo

Yeah, not much I can do about it now. Hardware store is closed.

138 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:18:00pm

re: #134 spikester

i suppose the next step for you is to tell us how americans forced to live in their cars should be grateful for being able to listen to their fm radios while eating cat food

139 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:18:24pm

re: #134 spikester

Or:

140 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:19:35pm

re: #136 Obdicut

re: #138 engineer dog

He did a shoot-and-scoot, signed off.

141 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:20:37pm

re: #140 Decatur Deb

I liked how he was patting himself on the back for 'working with the uneducated', too. It's the humility of souls like that that really helps to convince others of their message.

142 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:24:48pm

re: #141 Obdicut

I liked how he was patting himself on the back for 'working with the uneducated', too. It's the humility of souls like that that really helps to convince others of their message.

Points for passion, but it was sort of misdirected.

143 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:25:12pm

re: #134 spikester

Go to Africa, Asia, South America I've taken that opportunity work with the uneducated in all these places and seen real poverty you twits.


I missed the part of the Beck video where he was urging an increase in foreign aid, or charity. I think the point he was making is that poor people here have it so good, the wealthy shouldn't have a tax increase.

144 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:31:30pm

re: #138 engineer dog

i suppose the next step for you is to tell us how americans forced to live in their cars should be grateful for being able to listen to their fm radios while eating cat food

Well, the only people eating cat food are the ones that like it. A can of chili w/meat costs less the the equivalent amount of wet cat food.

But yeah, been there done that, and it ain't no fun. Sleepin' in my gawt-awfully tiny Nissan, eating cold chili out of a can with my buck knife for a spoon.

145 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:34:00pm

Some relatively new details....
Portland bomb plot suspect felt betrayed by family, thought living in U.S. was sin
What's interesting is it seems he radicalized himself. Maybe influenced my internet chat rooms or something.

146 albusteve  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:36:31pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Some relatively new details...
Portland bomb plot suspect felt betrayed by family, thought living in U.S. was sin
What's interesting is it seems he radicalized himself. Maybe influenced my internet chat rooms or something.

evolution!

147 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:36:32pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

No clear picture of him is emerging yet for me. I read somewhere else he drank beer and seemed kinda normal.

I expect he'll have quite a bit to say. Unless he's smarter than I think.

148 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:39:11pm

re: #144 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, the only people eating cat food are the ones that like it. A can of chili w/meat costs less the the equivalent amount of wet cat food.

But yeah, been there done that, and it ain't no fun. Sleepin' in my gawt-awfully tiny Nissan, eating cold chili out of a can with my buck knife for a spoon.

Hell, I'd have given you a spoon.

/

149 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:39:39pm

re: #147 Obdicut

No clear picture of him is emerging yet for me. I read somewhere else he drank beer and seemed kinda normal.

I expect he'll have quite a bit to say. Unless he's smarter than I think.

He also dated girls, liked music, too. Probably didn't eat halal either. The appeal of jihad for most western terrorists doesn't usually have much to do with religious observance. Even guys like Mohammed Atta wasn't really a very observant Muslim.

150 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:40:55pm

re: #148 wrenchwench

Hell, I'd have given you a spoon.

/

Enabler!!! If he has a knife he can whittle his own spoon.

151 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:41:41pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

You got that right. I tried 'em once. Got my heart rate up just from fear. After I fell off, I got back on just to show I could, and never tried again.

I still have an old set of The Big Yankee dished mahogany rollers. They're missing the aluminum frame though which got lost during a move, I need to jerry rig a new one, or keep checking eBay. They are scary as hell but after enough drinks could be pretty entertaining at parties, provided you put down ample padding first.

152 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:44:31pm

re: #150 Decatur Deb

Enabler!!! If he has a knife he can whittle his own spoon.

Laugh if you want, but I've done that too. Except with a small camping axe instead of a knife. Did a pretty good job of it, too. :)

153 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:44:40pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Some relatively new details...
Portland bomb plot suspect felt betrayed by family, thought living in U.S. was sin
What's interesting is it seems he radicalized himself. Maybe influenced my internet chat rooms or something.

or maybe he was just a flop with the girls...

154 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:47:11pm

Awesome video! Evolution is real, and it's scary to me, to see people who don't believe in it. But, maybe, they will die off in the future, as we humans evolve?

155 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:47:21pm

re: #134 spikester

The troll says what?

156 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:48:32pm

re: #153 brookly red

or maybe he was just a flop with the girls...

Misguided yout.

157 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:49:31pm

re: #134 spikester

I read your comment and what came to mind is NOBODY can be that fucking retarded.

Okay, that gets you a down ding, and the rest of your comment ignored.

Too bad, you might have had a valid point to make. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and all that.

158 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:50:05pm

re: #136 Obdicut

Idiot.

funny you should say that... in NYC speak the addition of ster is code for Idiot... if you were here and some called you "cutster" it would not be a compliment.

159 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:50:34pm

re: #151 goddamnedfrank

I still have an old set of The Big Yankee dished mahogany rollers. They're missing the aluminum frame though which got lost during a move, I need to jerry rig a new one, or keep checking eBay. They are scary as hell but after enough drinks could be pretty entertaining at parties, provided you put down ample padding first.

Nice!

I saw some rollers at Interbike a few years ago that move fore and aft on tracks as you ride, that were so easy to ride, even I jumped on and did it easily. Oh, look!

160 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:51:43pm

re: #153 brookly red

or maybe he was just a flop with the girls...

no really, rejection can & does manifest in ugly ways...

161 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:52:32pm

re: #157 Slumbering Behemoth

Okay, that gets you a down ding, and the rest of your comment ignored.

Too bad, you might have had a valid point to make. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and all that.

Agreed. People who post a comment wherein they act like a horse's ass, then sign off aren't trying to make a point: They're trying to bother people.

162 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:52:33pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Some relatively new details...
Portland bomb plot suspect felt betrayed by family, thought living in U.S. was sin
What's interesting is it seems he radicalized himself. Maybe influenced my internet chat rooms or something.

SIN IS IN AND SO WE BEGIN

163 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:52:51pm

re: #153 brookly red

or maybe he was just a flop with the girls...

Almost certainly. Martyrdom doesn't appeal to guys who are getting laid.

164 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:53:13pm

This is nice to see:

Corvallis community showers mosque with support

Late morning sun streamed through clouds in the mosque's parking lot. For Mohamed Siala, the director of the mosque, the overwhelming support from Corvallis people served as a silver lining.

"This is how the community in Corvallis is here," he said as he spoke with Benjamin Barnett, rabbi at Beit Am, a local synagogue. "We want you to pray for us and use this opportunity to get closer to each other."

"Mohamed is a good friend, we're always trying to do more together," Barnett said. Members of his synagogue are meeting tonight to discuss what they can do to best offer support -- fundraising probably won't be necessary, since the damage will be covered by insurance.

"The main thing we want to do is show solidarity. The news should be that the majority of us want to stand side by side."

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:53:23pm

re: #134 spikester

I go to forgin countries all the time lol

166 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:54:08pm

And now I will get on my bicycle and pedal up the hill in the freezing cold.

Later, lizards!

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:54:19pm

re: #164 Obdicut

This is nice to see:

Corvallis community showers mosque with support

Corvallis is a college town full of hippies and stoners and gentle souls who go to burning man and ride bikes everywhere, I can see them doing this :D

168 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:54:39pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout

Almost certainly. Martyrdom doesn't appeal to guys who are getting laid.

OK, rotating title nomination for this!

169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:55:02pm

re: #166 wrenchwench

And now I will get on my bicycle and pedal up the hill in the freezing cold.

Later, lizards!

I've heard that's character building

I'm pretty sure they're lying

170 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:55:05pm

re: #164 Obdicut

This is nice to see:

Corvallis community showers mosque with support

Dhimmi fascist appeasing Islamified traitors!
/Pam

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:55:11pm

re: #168 Floral Giraffe

OK, rotating title nomination for this!

agreed

172 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:55:50pm

re: #168 Floral Giraffe

;)

173 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:56:53pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

Dhimmi fascist appeasing Islamified traitors!
/Pam

Pam Geller would probably wither into a lich if she set foot in Oregon west of Bend. Our evil liberal ley lines of hippie guitar feedback awesome would repel her

174 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:57:09pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout

Almost certainly. Martyrdom doesn't appeal to guys who are getting laid.

and here we unleash our most potent defense against terrorism... "bombers are losers" real men just get laid.

175 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:57:56pm

re: #165 WindUpBird

I go to forgin countries all the time lol

On spring brake?

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 5:59:00pm

re: #175 Reginald Perrin

On spring brake?

You're ticket is near the back of the plain, sir

177 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:01:33pm

re: #176 WindUpBird

You're ticket is near the back of the plain, sir

Is my seat on the write side of the plain?

178 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:02:24pm

re: #154 Floral Giraffe

Awesome video! Evolution is real, and it's scary to me, to see people who don't believe in it. But, maybe, they will die off in the future, as we humans evolve?

O'RLY?
/

179 NVAudiophile  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:03:49pm

I have enjoyed reading Little Green Footballs since I first followed a link to the site following the controversy over Bush’s forged National Guard documents, but never felt inclined to post a comment. However, I am now compelled acknowledge that unexpected gyms like this excellent video--as well as last week’s link to Don Ross’ Crazy video--keep me coming back each day. I am virtually guaranteed of stumbling across something that at piques my interest, challenges my opinions, or prompts me to think about things in a new way.

I have often heard the argument made by advocates of intelligent design that organs such as the eye are too complex to evolve absent the guiding hand of a benevolent intelligence. And although I have always been skeptical of intelligent design, I had a hard time understanding how evolutionary processes could produce an organ of such complexity. I think I was sympathetic to this view because our own life experiences seem so contradictory to evolution. After all, to accept the science of evolution is to believe that given enough time, precursor compounds will evolve into living organisms which will then reproduce and diversify into a multitude of different species. And yet, our own life experience seems to contradict this. After all, the advances of human civilization have not come about through chance. Quite the contrary--the advance of technology only occurred through a relentless intellectual pursuit spanning generations. I can see where accepting that life simply happened by chance could lead one to therefore expect that creating life from scratch in the laboratory should be a trivial process, or likewise that curing diseases and extending life indefinitely should be easily within our grasp. After all, if life simply evolved through chance we should be able to create life on purpose. This video explained in a very accessible way how irreducibly complex systems can evolve when “a crucial factor not present in the last stage enables the last stage to develop.” This was the crucial bit of information that really enabled me to get my head around the concept. Thanks Charles for posting the link.

180 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:04:03pm

re: #178 Slumbering Behemoth

O'RLY?
/

'Murricaaaaa Fuuuuuck Yeaaaaaa !!!!!

181 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:04:03pm

re: #168 Floral Giraffe

OK, rotating title nomination for this!

Quite Concur.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:04:39pm

re: #141 Obdicut

I liked how he was patting himself on the back for 'working with the uneducated', too. It's the humility of souls like that that really helps to convince others of their message.

I once had a guy on a left-wing e-mail list I used to belong to tell me what a waste of my time it was to volunteer at a food bank in my area. After all, he pointed out, none of those people were really starving to DEATH, and he'd worked with the 'so-called American poor', and they had color TVs.

Eejit.

183 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:04:40pm

re: #177 Reginald Perrin

Yer seet is on teh LeFT side, Sir.

184 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:06:09pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

"Let them eat televisions."

185 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:06:28pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. People who post a comment wherein they act like a horse's ass, then sign off aren't trying to make a point: They're trying to bother people.

Ah, a troll dropping then? Shoulda busted out a yo mama joke instead.

186 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:07:16pm

I didn't mean to anger the troll. I guess I wandered too near his cave.

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:07:22pm

re: #177 Reginald Perrin

Is my seat on the write side of the plain?

*collapses into giggles*

I'm not going to lie to you, that made me laugh like a hyena

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:08:25pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Some relatively new details...
Portland bomb plot suspect felt betrayed by family, thought living in U.S. was sin
What's interesting is it seems he radicalized himself. Maybe influenced my internet chat rooms or something.

I useta know a guy in high school--Yugoslav. Mom was Serb, Dad was Croat. They got the hell out of Dodge in the early 90s.

He hated America. He hated Americans. He flaunted being European like a badge of honor. (Let me tell you, for the record, there is nothing more dumbass than a high school kid sitting around talking about the soft American lives of his mostly-first-generation-Asian-American classmates.)

This sounds like it might have been something similar, but with a terrorism factor.

189 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:08:29pm

re: #184 Fozzie Bear

"Let them eat televisions."

This my new band, we're called EAT TELEVISIÖNS


The O is a blue oyster cult umlaut

190 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:09:18pm

re: #186 Fozzie Bear

I didn't mean to anger the troll. I guess I wandered too near his cave.

Well, it is winter. We can write it off as you looking for a place to hibernate. ;)

191 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:09:22pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

192 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:09:46pm

re: #125 reine.de.tout

You two have nothing on my husband. 8 years to file the masonite claim, after there was hardly any money left in the fund. "It hasn't been 8 years." "Yes, it has."

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:11:56pm

re: #184 Fozzie Bear

"Let them eat televisions."

We had a lot of old Chinese ladies coming into that food bank, some with their grandchildren. Guy was a jackass.

194 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:12:41pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

Shit, I knew a kid like that, but he was from fucking Montana and had moved to Connecticut, and all he could talk about was how much better Montana was and how we were all pussies in Connecticut. Dressed like a cowboy, drawled, talked about the real man's life in Montana.

Then one day I ran into him in a town two towns over, and he was with his dad-- a short, portly chartered accountant who said "Goshua Crutches" instead of Jesus Christ.

195 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:12:44pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh no, LuckyScent just sent me a holiday offer.

196 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:15:39pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

I once had a guy on a left-wing e-mail list I used to belong to tell me what a waste of my time it was to volunteer at a food bank in my area.

This former recipient of such similar kind graces would like to extend his immense gratitude to people like you, and a hearty "Fuck off!" to the asshole who tried to tell you that it was a waste of your time.

{SFZ}

197 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:16:14pm

re: #194 Obdicut

Shit, I knew a kid like that, but he was from fucking Montana and had moved to Connecticut, and all he could talk about was how much better Montana was and how we were all pussies in Connecticut. Dressed like a cowboy, drawled, talked about the real man's life in Montana.

Then one day I ran into him in a town two towns over, and he was with his dad-- a short, portly chartered accountant who said "Goshua Crutches" instead of Jesus Christ.

Figures... those Montanan's are a bunch of no-neck dick-dragging neanderthals anyway... every one out west here knows it's "Bejebus Fucking Christ."

198 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:25:36pm

Hi, all!

Late to the party, but that video was killer bee!

It's the kind of point-by-point dismantling of a bullshit argument so lacking in our 10-second sound-bite America.

Hope y'all are well. Cold front blew through last night. 80 degrees yesterday, hard freeze tomorrow morning. Texas weather.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:26:38pm

re: #195 prairiefire

Oh no, LuckyScent just sent me a holiday offer.

RUN!!!! HIDE YOUR WALLET!!!!

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:27:03pm

re: #196 Slumbering Behemoth

This former recipient of such similar kind graces would like to extend his immense gratitude to people like you, and a hearty "Fuck off!" to the asshole who tried to tell you that it was a waste of your time.

{SFZ}

Love you!

I've recovered long since. It was just so fricking annoying!

201 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:32:29pm

re: #178 Slumbering Behemoth

O'RLY?
/

Ford vehicles are deeply embarrassed by the fool driving this car.

202 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:34:02pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

We had a lot of old Chinese ladies coming into that food bank, some with their grandchildren. Guy was a jackass.

Is it just me, or does the notion of food banks in the richest nation on earth seem like a warning sign?

203 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:35:51pm

re: #202 brookly red

Is it just me, or does the notion of food banks in the richest nation on earth seem like a warning sign?

Food banks in the US isn't a new concept dude.

204 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:36:10pm

re: #202 brookly red

Is it just me, or does the notion of food banks in the richest nation on earth seem like a warning sign?

a warning that the rising tide doesn't float all boats?.........

205 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:36:53pm

re: #203 Mr Pancakes

Food banks in the US isn't a new concept dude.

true that, but they seem to be all the rage now...

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:37:23pm

Bear: A Meat Worth Trying

For some of you, the fact that bear can be good eating is no great surprise: The hunting and eating of bears has been going on since long before we out-competed the horrific (and thankfully extinct) cave bear for the best places to shelter ourselves from the rigors of the Ice Age. Bear hunting has been part of American life since we arrived in the 17th century, and roast bear was on the menu for more than a few state dinners during our nation's youth.

Bear regularly made its way to market before the sale of wild game was outlawed in the early 1900s, and it retained a place in the American palate right through the late 1950s. One of the best-selling cookbooks of all time, Meta Given's Modern Encyclopedia of Cooking (first written in 1947) includes a section on bear with helpful butchering tips, such as how to remove the scent glands behind the animal's hind legs.

Even more telling is that the 1957 edition of the Gourmet Cookbook includes three recipes for bear. Gourmet magazine never catered to the redneck hunter crowd: Putting bear in their cookbook means it was a legitimate facet of haute cuisine.

207 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:37:23pm

re: #202 brookly red

Is it just me, or does the notion of food banks in the richest nation on earth seem like a warning sign?

Some see it as a warning that we have abandoned our rugged individualism and betrayed the wisdom of the marketplace.

208 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:37:27pm

Evening lizards!

What's new?

209 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:37:54pm

re: #204 wozzablog

a warning that the rising tide doesn't float all boats?...

what rising tide?

210 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:38:12pm

re: #205 brookly red

true that, but they seem to be all the rage now...

The cheezze is great and it lasts for 6 months!

211 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:39:20pm

re: #209 brookly red

what rising tide?

of wealth in the overall economy...........

212 BishopX  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:39:23pm

OT:

A bomb sniffing dog at Louisville airport found something...Bomb squad is X-raying packages now. Hopefully it's just a false positive. none of this is near the passenger concourses.

AP report

213 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:40:27pm

re: #207 Decatur Deb

Some see it as a warning that we have abandoned our rugged individualism and betrayed the wisdom of the marketplace.

I was more thinking that something seems broken... hey not that we live in a perfect world.

214 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:41:04pm

re: #208 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards!

What's new?

Hey man..... good to see you!

215 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:41:14pm

re: #206 Slumbering Behemoth

Interesting. I wonder what time of year it was hunted in those days? The bear I've had is all fattened up to go into the winter's hibernation and is too greasy for my tastes. A nice elk steak OTOH ... ;)

216 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:42:28pm

re: #214 Mr Pancakes

Hey man... good to see you!

It's been a lovely rainy day today.

217 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:42:31pm

re: #213 brookly red

I was more thinking that something seems broken...

Dude, things have been broken for a long time. Food banks, traveling free clinics, reliance on good will and thrift stores........... none of it is new and all of it is familiar to the working poor and those beneath the lowest rung.

218 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:42:54pm

re: #202 brookly red

Is it just me, or does the notion of food banks in the richest nation on earth seem like a warning sign?

They've been around since I can remember. All volunteer, charity stuff. Great folk involved, I love them.

Around my parts, there are a lot of working poor that hit the food banks. I guess the warning sign would be that some people are being exploited.

219 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:42:57pm

re: #211 wozzablog

of wealth in the overall economy...

Sorry, I must have missed that...

220 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:43:40pm

re: #219 brookly red

Sorry, I must have missed that...

95% of people have in real terms compared to the top 5%.

221 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:44:08pm

re: #213 brookly red

I was more thinking that something seems broken... hey not that we live in a perfect world.

It just means that the system is far from airtight, even in good times. I'm old enough to remember when the food banks were something of an innovation--a much needed one.

222 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:44:48pm

re: #209 brookly red

what rising tide?

The one that just drowned a whole bunch of blue dog Dems.

223 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:45:13pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

The one that just drowned a whole bunch of blue dog Dems.

ooooo, you cat!

224 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:45:28pm

re: #215 wlewisiii

Interesting. I wonder what time of year it was hunted in those days? The bear I've had is all fattened up to go into the winter's hibernation and is too greasy for my tastes. A nice elk steak OTOH ... ;)

Never hunted myself, though I would like to. As I understand it, you don't want to hunt bear shortly after hibernation. Too many parasites, viruses, and what not take up residence when the bear be taking it's winter nap.

225 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:45:55pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

The one that just drowned a whole bunch of blue dog Dems.

Yeah--that was the silver lining in my little cloud.

226 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:46:17pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

The one that just drowned a whole bunch of blue dog Dems.

any dog worth his kibble can swim quite well...

227 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:46:34pm

re: #224 Slumbering Behemoth

Never hunted myself, though I would like to. As I understand it, you don't want to hunt bear shortly after hibernation. Too many parasites, viruses, and what not take up residence when the bear be taking it's winter nap.

Hmmm sounds like it would only be good for soup.

228 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:47:04pm

re: #226 brookly red

any dog worth his kibble can swim quite well...

all the way to k-street.

229 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:48:51pm

re: #219 brookly red

Sorry, I must have missed that...

These people didn't:

Just two years after the global financial crisis that threatened to destroy the banking industry, Wall Street bonuses have hit a record high. According to The Wall Street Journal, employees at America's biggest banks are set to reward themselves with $144 billion in compensation and benefits this year — a 4 percent increase over last year's record haul.

230 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:49:53pm

re: #228 wozzablog

all the way to k-street.

k-street? no I am more of an e-street kinda guy...

231 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:51:06pm

re: #230 brookly red

k-street? no I am more of an e-street kinda guy...

K street E street? I know I street gets me to the beach.

232 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:51:12pm

re: #227 Mr Pancakes

Heh. I don't think it's licensed to hunt bear after the hibernation period. Not healthy for the bear pop., nor the folk who might eat it.

But I did have a stew made from bear meat. A friend of my grandma's gave her some from his hunt, and I used the trusty internets to find her a recipe. Damn good eating.

233 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:51:20pm

A message from the Tennessee Son's of Liberty...
The Real Lincoln

234 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:51:30pm

Anybody else have a broken dinger? I've had hamster problems for the last half hour, even after reboot.

235 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:51:40pm

re: #232 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. I don't think it's licensed to hunt bear after the hibernation period. Not healthy for the bear pop., nor the folk who might eat it.

But I did have a stew made from bear meat. A friend of my grandma's gave her some from his hunt, and I used the trusty internets to find her a recipe. Damn good eating.

I'd chomp it.

236 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:52:04pm

re: #234 Decatur Deb

Anybody else have a broken dinger?

Now now

237 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:52:05pm

re: #229 publicityStunted

These people didn't:

Yeah! I guess they done got hope & changed real good now.

238 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:53:26pm

re: #236 Mr Pancakes

I'd ding that, but I cant. Later.

239 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:53:36pm

re: #237 brookly red

Yeah! I guess they done got hope & changed real good now.

Yes. The far left Obama is presiding over the inevitable uptick of wealth towards the top........... so "thats" what he meant by "spreading the wealth around".

240 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:53:52pm

re: #221 Decatur Deb

It just means that the system is far from airtight, even in good times. I'm old enough to remember when the food banks were something of an innovation--a much needed one.

I like angelfood ministries... but I am not supposed to post contact info.

241 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:54:22pm

re: #220 wozzablog

95% of people have in real terms compared to the top 5%.

Look at the red line. Compare it to the blue line.

Now let's hear someone explain why it's a good thing.

242 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:55:42pm

re: #241 publicityStunted

Look at the red line. Compare it to the blue line.

Now let's hear someone explain why it's a good thing.

Free markets work!

DUH!

243 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:56:02pm

re: #226 brookly red

any dog worth his kibble can swim quite well...

i was told there'd be no tests

244 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:56:12pm

re: #239 wozzablog

Yes. The far left Obama is presiding over the inevitable uptick of wealth towards the top... so "thats" what he meant by "spreading the wealth around".

I am not sure what you mean by that?

245 freetoken  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:01pm

In case anyone missed it, the BBC put up a video of Hosling's latest animated graph of life expectancies:

Fascinating how easily visible the great flu epidemic becomes, as well as WWII.

246 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:03pm

re: #241 publicityStunted

Look at the red line. Compare it to the blue line.

Now let's hear someone explain why it's a good thing.

It's not... I quite sure that these wage earners are still using the tools and skills that they had in the 1960's, and being forced to produce twice as much with that same antiquated technology... it's a shame.

247 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:08pm

re: #243 engineer dog

i was told there'd be no tests

some times you just got to face the fact you been lied to...

248 Max  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:28pm

Yikes! Tea Party Nation president says that restricting voting rights to property owners "makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for flying Teabag Airways, please remember to turn off your cell phones, put your tray tables in an up right and lock position, and set your watches back 230 years. /Only sort of kidding.

249 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:31pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

You know what I'm gonna say to that:

250 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:55pm

re: #244 brookly red

I am not sure what you mean by that?


Will try to take the time to explain the assorted levels the comment works at when i log back in tomorrow morning.

251 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57:59pm

re: #229 publicityStunted

I think that is unfair.
Bonus is a HUGE percentage of a Wall Street Traders pay, sometimes as much as 90%. And, there are many thousands of jobs fewer on Wall Street today, than there were 5 years ago. Pay for a good performance, is called capitalism.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:58:21pm

re: #235 Mr Pancakes

I'll try anything once, 'cept for organ meat (SHUT UP!/), or endangered animals.

253 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:58:43pm

re: #134 spikester

{and all you that upticked the remark}

I read your comment and what came to mind is NOBODY can be that fucking retarded
Have you ever been to a forgin country on anything other that spring brake. I've seen people in India that have been crippled, I mean arms and legs broken and healed crooked because they were to be the family beggar (hope of income, somebody had to do it) My guess is you have never slept on the street (unless it was to be the first in the door so you could get that hella cool shoot'm up game) never really been hungry. Go to Africa, Asia, South America I've taken that opportunity work with the uneducated in all these places and seen real poverty you twits.
At the risk of being ironic
re: #65 Fozzie Bear

HELP I'M SURROUNDED BY FUCKING MORONS

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes. I think spikester was correct.

First some basics. Beck is an idiot. If asked to slap his ass with both hands, he'd end up fisting his own farty flap. Second, spikester fucked up what was basically a decent observation with his last few lines.

Outside of that, I believe his post was, indeed, correct. We really don't have a concept of what real-world poverty is like. What we have in this country is poverty relative to what we perceive to be a decent standard of living. For the long-term unemployed, it's terrifying. No doubt. And with the sum total of wealth in this country, it is absurd that we are cutting off benefits to those who have supported this economy until it was gutted by a bunch of twidgets in the "wealth management" field.

I'm a believer in the Social Contract. We should feed the hungry, educate the population to compete in a global economy, house the homeless, heal the sick. Together. As one people.

But...

Here:

[Link: sonic.net...]

That's hungry. That's poverty. That's poor.

254 freetoken  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:59:04pm

re: #242 wozzablog

Free markets work!

DUH!

Actually, if that graph is accurate, then your statement is probably true. Increasing productivity per unit expended is at the heart of modernization of economies.

255 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:59:29pm

re: #251 Floral Giraffe

I think that is unfair.
Bonus is a HUGE percentage of a Wall Street Traders pay, sometimes as much as 90%. And, there are many thousands of jobs fewer on Wall Street today, than there were 5 years ago. Pay for a good performance, is called capitalism.

/Ahhhhgh! my eyes!!!!

no really, right fuckin on.

256 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:59:30pm

And also to the jackasses in Tennessee who soil the name "Sons of Liberty" with that PoS video:

257 freetoken  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:59:53pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes. I think spikester was correct.

I just thought his attitude stunk.

258 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:00:20pm

re: #251 Floral Giraffe

Pay for a good performance, is called capitalism.

Bonus pay for shitty performance (like taking down stock exchanges by %%%%) has been called business as usual for far too long.

259 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:00:46pm

re: #240 brookly red

I like angelfood ministries... but I am not supposed to post contact info.

Never heard of them, but I doubt there would be any problem linking their website, would there?

260 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:00:51pm

re: #217 wozzablog

I have to wait for a parking spot at my local thrift store. They are doing bang up business. $4 jeans and $3 dollar tops, gently used top labels. I LOVE it.

261 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:01:28pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll try anything once, 'cept for organ meat (SHUT UP!/), or endangered animals.

Every animal I've ever eaten was personally endangered......... organ meat is divine!

Manatee kidney tacos are tasty!
/

262 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:01:32pm

re: #251 Floral Giraffe

I think that is unfair.
Bonus is a HUGE percentage of a Wall Street Traders pay, sometimes as much as 90%. And, there are many thousands of jobs fewer on Wall Street today, than there were 5 years ago. Pay for a good performance, is called capitalism.

The financial sector alone is 1/4 of the American economy. Do you feel that it's ok that 1/4 of all the productive power of our entire country goes to people who do nothing other than manipulate money?

I think it's completely fucked, frankly.

263 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:02:52pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes. I think spikester was correct.

First some basics. Beck is an idiot. If asked to slap his ass with both hands, he'd end up fisting his own farty flap. Second, spikester fucked up what was basically a decent observation with his last few lines.

Outside of that, I believe his post was, indeed, correct. We really don't have a concept of what real-world poverty is like. What we have in this country is poverty relative to what we perceive to be a decent standard of living. For the long-term unemployed, it's terrifying. No doubt. And with the sum total of wealth in this country, it is absurd that we are cutting off benefits to those who have supported this economy until it was gutted by a bunch of twidgets in the "wealth management" field.

I'm a believer in the Social Contract. We should feed the hungry, educate the population to compete in a global economy, house the homeless, heal the sick. Together. As one people.

But...

Here:

[Link: sonic.net...]

That's hungry. That's poverty. That's poor.

Outside of the third world all poverty is relative - and there are dirt poor kids in america suffering malnutrition and skipping meals.

Using strong rhetoric to say "hey, this is a first world country and there are children going hungry at night" is i think a fair use of the language.

264 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:02:59pm

re: #262 Fozzie Bear

I don't have a problem with it. That "manipulation" has generated an enormous amount of wealth in this nation.

265 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:03:46pm

This makes me want to fake my age and sign up for the ,military again.

U.S. Army Unveils 'Revolutionary' XM25 Rifle in Afghanistan


Since the dawn of modern warfare, the best way to stay alive in the face of incoming fire has been to take cover behind a wall. But thanks to a game-changing "revolutionary" rifle, the U.S. Army has made that tactic dead on arrival. Now the enemy can run, but he can't hide.

After years of development, the U.S. Army has unleashed a new weapon in Afghanistan -- the XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System, a high-tech rifle that can be programmed so that its 25-mm. ammunition detonates either in front of or behind a target, meaning it can be fired just above a wall before it explodes and kills the enemy.

It also has a range of roughly 2,300 feet -- nearly the length of eight football fields -- making it possible to fire at targets well past the range of the rifles and carbines that most soldiers carry today.

Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner, project manager for the semi-automatic, shoulder-fired weapon system for the U.S. Army's Program Executive Office Soldier, said that the XM25's capability alone is such a "game-changer" that it'll lead to new ways of fighting on the battlefield, beginning this month in Afghanistan.

"With this weapon system, we take away cover from [enemy targets] forever," Lehner told FoxNews.com on Wednesday. "Tactics are going to have to be rewritten. The only thing we can see [enemies] being able to do is run away."

And that would make it much easier for U.S. troops to put them in their sights, either with that same XM25 or another direct-fire weapon.

With this new weapon in the Army's arsenal, Lehner said, "We're much more effective, by many magnitudes, than current weapons at the squad level. We're able to shoot farther and more accurately, and our soldiers can stay behind sandbags, walls or rocks, which provides them protection from fire."

266 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:03:46pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes.

Damn the Karma! full speed ahead!

267 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:03:55pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

I don't have a problem with it. That "manipulation" has generated an enormous amount of wealth in this nation.

For who?

268 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:04:17pm

re: #258 wozzablog

LOL!
You think the traders would deliberately tank their exchanges?
SERIOUSLY?
Their job is to trade, as directed by their buyers & sellers.
Talk to them.

269 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:04:20pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

I don't have a problem with it. That "manipulation" has generated an enormous amount of wealth in this nation.

For people in the top quartile.

270 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:04:48pm

And finnaly one that the Neo-Confederates who assault Lincoln's memory will like:

271 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:04:49pm

re: #259 Slumbering Behemoth

Never heard of them, but I doubt there would be any problem linking their website, would there?

ehhh just Google em...

272 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:05:32pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes. I think spikester was correct.


That's hungry. That's poverty. That's poor.

That's right.... some may have "visited" poor countries ...... but never rolled around in the slime.

273 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:05:54pm

re: #268 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
You think the traders would deliberately tank their exchanges?
SERIOUSLY?
Their job is to trade, as directed by their buyers & sellers.
Talk to them.

derivative swaps were not *meant* to be a ckusterfuck of epic proportions. They just turned out to be so - endless trading of shit paper on a nod and a wink with no oversight and no traders asking ANY FRAKKING QUESTIONS counts as culpabillity. And they got bonusses while they were at it.

The bonus cultrue drove the massive fuck up.

274 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:05:57pm

re: #262 Fozzie Bear

Well, we as a community, have decided that these jobs are worth paying for, and paying well. It's a skill that is highly paid for in the job market. It's not my personal decision.

275 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:06:12pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes. I think spikester was correct.

First some basics. Beck is an idiot. If asked to slap his ass with both hands, he'd end up fisting his own farty flap. Second, spikester fucked up what was basically a decent observation with his last few lines.

Outside of that, I believe his post was, indeed, correct. We really don't have a concept of what real-world poverty is like. What we have in this country is poverty relative to what we perceive to be a decent standard of living. For the long-term unemployed, it's terrifying. No doubt. And with the sum total of wealth in this country, it is absurd that we are cutting off benefits to those who have supported this economy until it was gutted by a bunch of twidgets in the "wealth management" field.

I'm a believer in the Social Contract. We should feed the hungry, educate the population to compete in a global economy, house the homeless, heal the sick. Together. As one people.

But...

Here:

[Link: sonic.net...]

That's hungry. That's poverty. That's poor.

Its also irrelevant to how the poor in our countries experience life. You can't argue that being poor here is acceptable because there are other countries where the poor are significantly worse off than here. Expectation of certain standards is based on the overall standards of the society, not in comparison to countries where the standards are lower for whatever reason. Simply put, showing that there are others worse off does not make things better for the subjects under discussion.

276 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:06:52pm

re: #265 NJDhockeyfan

This makes me want to fake my age and sign up for the ,military again.

U.S. Army Unveils 'Revolutionary' XM25 Rifle in Afghanistan

It's a great weapon, it's true. The war has gone on a long time, but that has one small upside: The US has been able to start to get a whole new generation of weapons into service. And our new stuff is giving us more of an edge than ever. The Taliban hasn't got a chance.

277 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:06:52pm

re: #257 freetoken

I just thought his attitude stunk.

Agreed!

278 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:07:07pm

re: #257 freetoken

I just thought his attitude stunk.

His argument was specious.

279 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:07:09pm

re: #266 brookly red

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes.

Damn the Karma! full speed ahead!

I have karma to burn dude!

280 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:07:13pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Well when you put it like that, you can certainly gain more respect and draw more attention to the point you're trying to make.

But when you start off with...

I read your comment and what came to mind is NOBODY can be that fucking retarded.

... you're gonna get ignored. By me at least. Honey, vinegar, flies.

281 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:07:23pm

re: #272 Mr Pancakes

That's right... some may have "visited" poor countries ... but never rolled around in the slime.

Spikester stabbed out his own eyes and severed his legs because he met a man who didn't even have a head, and felt ashamed of his own relatively good fortune. We mere pansy mortals can never understand that kind of suffering. /

282 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:07:53pm

re: #263 wozzablog

Outside of the third world all poverty is relative - and there are dirt poor kids in america suffering malnutrition and skipping meals.

Using strong rhetoric to say "hey, this is a first world country and there are children going hungry at night" is i think a fair use of the language.

Agreed!

283 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:08:05pm

re: #254 freetoken

Actually, if that graph is accurate, then your statement is probably true. Increasing productivity per unit expended is at the heart of modernization of economies.

This is where I got it from:

How a Low Wage Economy with Weak Labor Laws Brought Us the Mortgage Credit Crisis

But the real roots of the crisis do not lie on Wall Street. The cause of the crisis can be found in the long-term weakening of the real American economy in an era of globalization—in closed factories, outsourced high tech jobs and low wage jobs with no benefits, and in the unsustainable effort to maintain middle class living standards through borrowing. It is to be found in the reality of lives like that of Kimberly Somsel of Westland Michigan, a member of the AFL-CIO’s community affiliate Working America, an unemployed single mother of two battling breast cancer and facing foreclosure due to a ballooning “2 and 28” loan payment. She is selling the family car and her furniture just to get by. Five houses on her block are threatened with foreclosure.
...
And here you can see the results. During the postwar era, America’s workers were able through collective bargaining, to capture most of the productivity gains in the American economy. This was the period of the dramatic growth in the real income of most Americans, and the reduction in inequality to levels that at the time were thought to be indicative of a modern economy that had put the economic royalist and inequality of the robber baron age forever behind us.

284 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:08:17pm

re: #279 Mr Pancakes

I have karma to burn dude!

but it leaves a stinky foot print...

285 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:08:20pm

re: #262 Fozzie Bear

The financial sector alone is 1/4 of the American economy. Do you feel that it's ok that 1/4 of all the productive power of our entire country goes to people who do nothing other than manipulate money?

I think it's completely fucked, frankly.

I agree... that's why I think you should take any pension plans or stocks you have or other investments away from those big mean bankers. Show them no one can fuck with Fozzie.

286 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:09:54pm

re: #254 freetoken

Actually, if that graph is accurate, then your statement is probably true. Increasing productivity per unit expended is at the heart of modernization of economies.

Our workers already put in far more hours for each item produced that any other nations. We are a bunch of hamsters on wheels.

287 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:09:58pm

re: #265 NJDhockeyfan

This makes me want to fake my age and sign up for the ,military again.

U.S. Army Unveils 'Revolutionary' XM25 Rifle in Afghanistan

wow this is so cool... what does this button do?

288 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:10:14pm

re: #266 brookly red

Okay. I'm going to do something that is probably karma negative, but here goes.

Damn the Karma! full speed ahead!

289 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:10:15pm

re: #281 Fozzie Bear

Spikester stabbed out his own eyes and severed his legs because he met a man who didn't even have a head, and felt ashamed of his own relatively good fortune. We mere pansy mortals can never understand that kind of suffering. /

Tell us your 3rd world experience por fabor.

290 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:10:36pm

re: #254 freetoken

Actually, if that graph is accurate, then your statement is probably true. Increasing productivity per unit expended is at the heart of modernization of economies.

As productivity goes up, as profitability goes up - shouldn't wages?...............................

Seems everything goes up except wages......

291 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:10:41pm

re: #287 brookly red


Bank shots.

292 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:11:57pm

re: #274 Floral Giraffe

Well, we as a community, have decided that these jobs are worth paying for, and paying well. It's a skill that is highly paid for in the job market. It's not my personal decision.

I think the "community" part has been gamed a bit by self interest.

293 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:12:20pm

re: #286 prairiefire

Our workers already put in far more hours for each item produced that any other nations. We are a bunch of hamsters on wheels.

rapidly heading over the edge of the bell curve.

294 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:12:54pm

re: #291 jaunte

Bank shots.

oh fucking great... I just cleared the table but every one is dead. So how do I get paid? just f'n great...

295 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:13:23pm

re: #274 Floral Giraffe

Well, we as a community, have decided that these jobs are worth paying for, and paying well. It's a skill that is highly paid for in the job market. It's not my personal decision.

No, we don't. They pay themselves with the money they handle because, well, people need somewhere to put their money. They don't need to take 25 cents on every dollar of the total productive capacity of our massive economy, but they do because they can because they have the capital to own the things that generate wealth.

If you don't properly regulate and tax to deal with this imbalance, it eats economies. This lesson has been learned and forgotten many times it seems. When the financial sector goes crazy, Average Joe loses his 401k and his job.

296 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:13:45pm

re: #50 Fozzie Bear

Wow, what an incredible prick.

This is just pure concentrated evil. If this isn't naked class warfare, nothing is.

Exactly. Class warfare, to the extent that it exists, is a two-way street. The left may vilify the wealthy who they see as paying too little in taxes. But the right certainly vilifies the poor who they see as cheating the system looking only for handouts, whether that's the case or not.

297 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:14:09pm

re: #275 b_sharp

Its also irrelevant to how the poor in our countries experience life. You can't argue that being poor here is acceptable because there are other countries where the poor are significantly worse off than here. Expectation of certain standards is based on the overall standards of the society, not in comparison to countries where the standards are lower for whatever reason. Simply put, showing that there are others worse off does not make things better for the subjects under discussion.

Agreed! Hence my support of the Social Contract that in many ways *is* the Constitution and has been the source of American strength lo these many years. It's why I loathe the Glen Beck's and most Republicans for wanting to toss the concept under a bus. It's not only stupid, it is fundamentally un-American.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:14:43pm

re: #202 brookly red

Is it just me, or does the notion of food banks in the richest nation on earth seem like a warning sign?

They've been around a very long time. This was, BTW, years before the economy went south.

299 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:15:18pm

Good evening Lizards...
I hope Congress does something about middle class tax cuts..Best I can figure..My taxes goes up 400 dollars a month in the new year...I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about it..I say f*ck millionaires and leave me alone!
/not sarc kindof

300 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:15:26pm

re: #280 Slumbering Behemoth

Well when you put it like that, you can certainly gain more respect and draw more attention to the point you're trying to make.

But when you start off with...

... you're gonna get ignored. By me at least. Honey, vinegar, flies.

Oh, I totally agree he was an asshole.

301 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:15:31pm

re: #287 brookly red

wow this is so cool... what does this button do?

Here's a video of this beautiful ass-kicking weapon...

302 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:15:55pm

re: #290 wozzablog

As productivity goes up, as profitability goes up - shouldn't wages?...

Seems everything goes up except wages...

Wages only go up when owners have to raise them. Controlling labor costs is an important part of turning a profit. It's not always nice, but its needed.

303 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:16:33pm

re: #301 NJDhockeyfan

dude... I bought their stock in 2002.

304 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:16:56pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Wages only go up when owners have to raise them. Controlling labor costs is an important part of turning a profit. It's not always nice, but its needed.

And that's why strong unions which can credibly threaten to strike are so important.

305 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:17:10pm

re: #296 palomino

Exactly. Class warfare, to the extent that it exists, is a two-way street. The left may vilify the wealthy who they see as paying too little in taxes. But the right certainly vilifies the poor who they see as cheating the system looking only for handouts, whether that's the case or not.

When it's the super rich and the large corps avoiding more in taxes than welfare fraud..............

306 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:18:11pm

re: #271 brookly red

Fuck it, I'll link to 'em, and if it turns out they have other nefarious bullshit going on like some "charities" do, our host can delete this post without me shedding a tear.

Anyone willing to do charity work is aces in my book, regardless of where they're coming from philosophically. It's assholes like Robertson that I have a problem with, using their "charitable" cause as cover for brutal exploitation and profit.

307 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:18:51pm

re: #299 HoosierHoops

Good evening Lizards...
I hope Congress does something about middle class tax cuts..Best I can figure..My taxes goes up 400 dollars a month in the new year...I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about it..I say f*ck millionaires and leave me alone!
/not sarc kindof

OK first get your mind around the fact it is not a tax cut. It is the prevention of a tax increase and yes you are about to get fucked.

308 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:19:11pm

re: #289 Mr Pancakes

Tell us your 3rd world experience por fabor.

None I guess....... maybe from the moooovies.

309 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:19:14pm

re: #303 brookly red

dude... I bought their stock in 2002.

An investment well made. Lets see how many Islamic jihadists in Afghanistan get the pleasure of meeting this new rifle.

310 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:19:39pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Wages only go up when owners have to raise them. Controlling labor costs is an important part of turning a profit. It's not always nice, but its needed.

It is a very very sad state of affairs when there is more wealth in the economy than ever but that the relative earning power of those at the bottom is going backwards.

Wages aren't even keeping pace with the cost of living - let alone not rising.

311 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:19:43pm

re: #307 brookly red

OK first get your mind around the fact it is not a tax cut. It is the prevention of a tax increase and yes you are about to get fucked.

Well, technically it's the prevention of the expiration of a temporary tax relief bill.

312 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:20:38pm

re: #309 NJDhockeyfan

An investment well made. Lets see how many Islamic jihadists in Afghanistan get the pleasure of meeting this new rifle.

well they are being issued on a platoon level so quite a few I would guess.

313 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:20:50pm

re: #286 prairiefire

Our workers already put in far more hours for each item produced that any other nations. We are a bunch of hamsters on wheels.

But, but, but...what about all those advances? Since we're no longer using antiquated '60s tech, everyone should only have to work a 10-hr week! ///

...In other words, far from lightening workload, the modern economy is seeing fewer and fewer workers forced to do more and more for less and less.

314 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:20:51pm

re: #309 NJDhockeyfan

An investment well made. Lets see how many Islamic jihadists in Afghanistan get the pleasure of meeting this new rifle.

And afterward become acquainted with their 72 virgins goats.

315 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:21:29pm

re: #311 Fozzie Bear

Well, technically it's the prevention of the expiration of a temporary tax relief bill.

well technically do you want to pay more or no?

316 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:21:46pm

re: #307 brookly red

OK first get your mind around the fact it is not a tax cut. It is the prevention of a tax increase and yes you are about to get fucked.

Ummm... maybe not. Given the decrease in middle class taxes since 2008, which will not be affected, I don't think I'll get hit at all (no kids in the house).

317 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:21:59pm

re: #305 wozzablog

When it's the super rich and the large corps avoiding more in taxes than welfare fraud...

There's a myth still prevalent on the right that much of our tax money goes to "welfare queens" who lounge around all day while eating steak and watching TV on HD flat screens.

There was a small kernel of truth to that back in the 80s when Reagan railed against it. But today it's nothing more than an ignorant smear and excuse to oppose taxes in general. Welfare reform of the 90s ended the problem, which was always overstated to begin with. But this is what a reactionary populist like Beck does--create outrage at an innocent, nonexistent villain.

318 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:22:34pm

re: #317 palomino

There's a myth still prevalent on the right that much of our tax money goes to "welfare queens" who lounge around all day while eating steak and watching TV on HD flat screens.

There was a small kernel of truth to that back in the 80s when Reagan railed against it. But today it's nothing more than an ignorant smear and excuse to oppose taxes in general. Welfare reform of the 90s ended the problem, which was always overstated to begin with. But this is what a reactionary populist like Beck does--create outrage at an innocent, nonexistent villain.

That. Definitely that.

319 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:23:06pm

re: #316 austin_blue

Ummm... maybe not. Given the decrease in middle class taxes since 2008, which will not be affected, I don't think I'll get hit at all (no kids in the house).

lets compare notes on say April 16th?

320 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:23:39pm

Laters.

321 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:25:04pm

re: #307 brookly red

OK first get your mind around the fact it is not a tax cut. It is the prevention of a tax increase and yes you are about to get fucked.

Well, probably not for a while. I'd wager that the cuts get extended for a least a couple of years. Thankfully, Obama is going to talk to Boehner and McConnell about this behind closed doors. Keeping the press (especially Fox News) out of the room is important to allow the politicians to cut a deal. It keeps the "ELEVENTY!!1" chant from starting until after a deal has been reached.

322 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:26:57pm

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

Well, probably not for a while. I'd wager that the cuts get extended for a least a couple of years. Thankfully, Obama is going to talk to Boehner and McConnell about this behind closed doors. Keeping the press (especially Fox News) out of the room is important to allow the politicians to cut a deal. It keeps the "ELEVENTY!!1" chant from starting until after a deal has been reached.

yes but I am not liking the odds... we shall see.

323 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:27:34pm

re: #316 austin_blue

Ummm... maybe not. Given the decrease in middle class taxes since 2008, which will not be affected, I don't think I'll get hit at all (no kids in the house).

If your'e talking about federal income tax rates, don't worry. Obama's too smart a politician (and too concerned with 2012) to allow taxes on the mid class to go up now. If he can't get the Bush cuts for the top 2% repealed, he'll just allow the whole tax package of 2001 to continue, which means no one's taxes go up.

Unless you make well above 250k, you wouldn't take much of a hit since the first 250k are taxed at the lower rate anyway.

324 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:27:52pm

re: #315 brookly red

well technically do you want to pay more or no?

Nobody wants to pay more, but the fact is that it was an irresponsible tax cut to make in the first place. Cutting taxes reduces revenue, unless you are already to the right of the peak of the Laffer curve, which we almost definitely are not.

325 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:28:36pm

re: #299 HoosierHoops

Good evening Lizards...
I hope Congress does something about middle class tax cuts..Best I can figure..My taxes goes up 400 dollars a month in the new year...I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about it..I say f*ck millionaires and leave me alone!
/not sarc kindof

Wassup with your Colts man?

326 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:29:15pm

That's it. Amazon will never get a single order from me again...ever.

WikiLeaks Using Amazon Servers After Attack

WikiLeaks, the website that published a quarter-million sensitive diplomatic cables on Sunday, is using Amazon.com Inc. servers in the U.S. to help deliver its information. It sounds like an odd choice, but it could make sense.

The site cablegate.wikileaks.org, which WikiLeaks is using for the diplomatic documents, is linked to servers run by Amazon Web Services in Seattle, as well as to French company Octopuce. Wikileaks.org, the site’s front page, links back to Amazon servers in the U.S. and in Ireland. Several Internet watchers, including technologist Alex Norcliffe, reported earlier on WikiLeaks’ use of Amazon services.

Amazon and WikiLeaks did not return requests for comment.

327 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:29:45pm

re: #324 Fozzie Bear

Nobody wants to pay more, but the fact is that it was an irresponsible tax cut to make in the first place. Cutting taxes reduces revenue, unless you are already to the right of the peak of the Laffer curve, which we almost definitely are not.

Well yes, it is irresponsible if you want to maintain our current level of government spending... I for one do not.

328 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:29:52pm

re: #324 Fozzie Bear

Running two wars off the books is irresponsible.

329 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:31:19pm

re: #310 wozzablog

It is a very very sad state of affairs when there is more wealth in the economy than ever but that the relative earning power of those at the bottom is going backwards.

Wages aren't even keeping pace with the cost of living - let alone not rising.

Yes. And that's because of tax policy since 1980.

330 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:31:29pm

re: #325 Mr Pancakes

Wassup with your Colts man?

Everybody is hurt...It's not our year..I think we win the division but we are not going anywhere in the play-offs

331 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:32:38pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

Everybody is hurt...It's not our year..I think we win the division but we are not going anywhere in the play-offs

Yea... the Chargers were beat up too though..... you'll win the division.

332 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:33:07pm

re: #326 NJDhockeyfan

That's it. Amazon will never get a single order from me again...ever.

WikiLeaks Using Amazon Servers After Attack

The Justice Department should seize those servers at once. They contain evidence of espionage. And if Amazon knew they where hosting Wikileaks, then those who knew and said nothing need to meet Mr. RICO.

333 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:33:28pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

Everybody is hurt...It's not our year..I think we win the division but we are not going anywhere in the play-offs

Don't give up. Anything is possible this year in the NFL.

334 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:35:10pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

The Justice Department should seize those servers at once. They contain evidence of espionage. And if Amazon knew they where hosting Wikileaks, then those who knew and said nothing need to meet Mr. RICO.

please, they only seize for copyright infringements...

335 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:36:17pm

re: #286 prairiefire

Our workers already put in far more hours for each item produced that any other nations. We are a bunch of hamsters on wheels.

the number of average hours (for employed people) in america keeps on going up, the cost of housing and medical care keeps going up much faster than wages and salaries, more and more consumer chachkas are pushed at us all the time, and every tax cut for the wealthy pushes up the percentage of total taxes that the middle class pays

the best deal for americans was in the 50s-60s, but ever since then i've been hearing how unions destroyed our economy by making life too good for the middle class

feh

336 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:36:17pm

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Don't give up. Anything is possible this year in the NFL.

I am liking the Saints... no reason just a hunch.

337 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:36:28pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

Oooh, that was a bad scene. I am a closet Indy fan, I've loved Peyton since my mother told me to when I was 12. This is a little difficult as I am also a Patriots fan and live in Boston. Conflict!

338 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:36:59pm

re: #336 brookly red

I am liking the Saints... no reason just a hunch.

You are so 2009

339 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:37:48pm

re: #338 Mr Pancakes

You are so 2009

no I just hate Cowboys...

340 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:37:56pm

re: #325 Mr Pancakes

Wassup with your Colts man?

Hard to be a great QB (Brady, Manning, Vick, whoever) when their offensive line can't protect them. Colts are banged up even more than most teams. Football is just so physical that injuries always play a role. In spite of all this, they still want to increase regular season games to 18.

341 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:38:54pm

re: #327 brookly red

Well yes, it is irresponsible if you want to maintain our current level of government spending... I for one do not.

i think at this point if i met a republican politician who was actually serious about cutting the budget, i'd faint

the usual federal deficit is about 1/3 of total federal spending. ain't nobody nowhere nohow showed how to cut a third out of the federal budget

342 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:39:36pm
343 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:40:43pm

re: #341 engineer dog

i think at this point if i met a republican politician who was actually serious about cutting the budget, i'd faint

the usual federal deficit is about 1/3 of total federal spending. ain't nobody nowhere nohow showed how to cut a third out of the federal budget

does each state really need 2 senators ? is not one enough?

344 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:40:57pm

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Don't give up. Anything is possible this year in the NFL.

Then hopefully the Bears make the Superbowl.

345 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:41:13pm

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Don't give up. Anything is possible this year in the NFL.

Anything is always possible! That's what makes it a game!
Injuries, sadly happen.

346 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:42:47pm

re: #343 brookly red

does each state really need 2 senators ? is not one enough?

doesn't have an impact on the budget since only multinational corporations can afford to buy senators

347 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:43:04pm

re: #341 engineer dog

i think at this point if i met a republican politician who was actually serious about cutting the budget, i'd faint

the usual federal deficit is about 1/3 of total federal spending. ain't nobody nowhere nohow showed how to cut a third out of the federal budget

If we were really serious, we'd have to act like adults and adopt an austerity plan like the UK just did under their new Tory-Lib Dem govt. They've made small but meaningful cuts across the board (including military and their version of social security) and raised taxes as well. Painful, to be sure, but the only realistic and surefire way to offset huge deficits.

348 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:43:12pm

re: #336 brookly red

I am liking the Saints... no reason just a hunch.

The Cowboys had them beat. If Williams doesn't fumble the ball at the end Dallas would have given Jason Garret his 3rd win.

349 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:43:38pm

re: #327 brookly red

Well yes, it is irresponsible if you want to maintain our current level of government spending... I for one do not.

What would you cut? Be specific.

Social Security? Medicare? Medicaid? Defense? Retirement benefits for gov't retirees (including veterans)? Do you know how *little* of the budget is left after that?

What would you cut?

350 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:43:54pm

re: #340 palomino

Hard to be a great QB (Brady, Manning, Vick, whoever) when their offensive line can't protect them. Colts are banged up even more than most teams. Football is just so physical that injuries always play a role. In spite of all this, they still want to increase regular season games to 18.

Even a good offensive line can run into trouble against an aggressive defense. VIck played against the Giants twice and the Bears once. The Eagles only won 1 of those games, and that was the one that other team's offense couldn't get it together.

351 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:43:56pm

re: #339 brookly red

no I just hate Cowboys...

I don't think the Cowboys figure in..... sorry Steve if you are here.

352 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:44:15pm

re: #346 engineer dog

doesn't have an impact on the budget since only multinational corporations can afford to buy senators

well what if they only need to buy half as many? they might use the savings to create jobs...

353 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:44:27pm

re: #344 Dark_Falcon

Then hopefully the Bears make the Superbowl.

I'm up for that. They beat Philly last weekend. That was beautiful.

354 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:47:05pm

re: #349 austin_blue

What would you cut? Be specific.

Social Security? Medicare? Medicaid? Defense? Retirement benefits for gov't retirees (including veterans)? Do you know how *little* of the budget is left after that?

What would you cut?

oh please, yes of course there is no waste in government spending, it is all sooo needed.

355 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:47:12pm

re: #340 palomino

Hard to be a great QB (Brady, Manning, Vick, whoever) when their offensive line can't protect them. Colts are banged up even more than most teams. Football is just so physical that injuries always play a role. In spite of all this, they still want to increase regular season games to 18.

I'm all for 18 games........ most of the Charger offensive studs were out for that game......... I loved it when Peyton flinched before throwing...... the Bolts owned the line of scrimmage.

356 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:47:48pm

re: #344 Dark_Falcon

Then hopefully the Bears make the Superbowl.

Bears are looking good

357 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:47:57pm

re: #351 Mr Pancakes

I don't think the Cowboys figure in... sorry Steve if you are here.

not sorry Steve if you are here ;)

358 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:48:12pm

re: #347 palomino

If we were really serious, we'd have to act like adults and adopt an austerity plan like the UK just did under their new Tory-Lib Dem govt. They've made small but meaningful cuts across the board (including military and their version of social security) and raised taxes as well. Painful, to be sure, but the only realistic and surefire way to offset huge deficits.

probably

- we've long had by far the largest percentage of our national budget devoted to the military than any other nation, especially since the exact same thing broke the back of the ussr

- medical costs starting in the 1980s began to really blow out the budget

- then the ss projections taking the baby boom into account began to loom

- finally some banksters decided to gamble on mortgages and we know what happened then

- and of course of we raised any taxes god forbid the sun would explode

so the solution is crystal clear, isn't it!

359 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:49:08pm

re: #349 austin_blue

What would you cut?

Grants for studying fish farts, and the DEA.
/semi

360 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:49:21pm

re: #354 brookly red

oh please, yes of course there is no waste in government spending, it is all sooo needed.

That's not an answer. The question is, what would you cut? Where would you begin?

I think we're all opposed to waste, the issue is finding it, and agreeing on what really isn't needed.

361 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:50:11pm

re: #352 brookly red

well what if they only need to buy half as many? they might use the savings to create jobs...

or buy a small country or two to build new factories in

362 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:50:21pm

re: #350 Dark_Falcon

Even a good offensive line can run into trouble against an aggressive defense. VIck played against the Giants twice and the Bears once. The Eagles only won 1 of those games, and that was the one that other team's offense couldn't get it together.

Huh? Philly's only played NYG once so far, and they won. That was a week ago.

Vick may be a horrible person, but he's been a spectacular QB thus far this season. He'd probably be in the MVP mix except he missed some games and his rep doesn't help. His performance on MNF two weeks ago was one for the ages (4 TD passes, 2 rush TDs--he looked like a man playing with little boys). Unbelievably he went to prison and got better. He's what Vince Young was supposed to be, but probably will never develop into.

363 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:50:51pm

re: #354 brookly red

oh please, yes of course there is no waste in government spending, it is all sooo needed.

There's no such thing as actual "waste" you can just cut. What you think is waste might be something that other people consider vital. The rest is corruption, which exists, but isn't an issue with budgeting anyway.

364 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:51:08pm

re: #343 brookly red

Its the only thing in the Constitution that cannot be amended.
2 Senators for every state, for as long as the Union survives.

365 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:51:58pm

re: #355 Mr Pancakes

I'm all for 18 games... most of the Charger offensive studs were out for that game... I loved it when Peyton flinched before throwing... the Bolts owned the line of scrimmage.

There's only so much the human body can tolerate before breaking down. We could move to 28 games, but then the average NFL career would be 2 seasons, down from the current 4.

366 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:52:24pm

re: #354 brookly red

oh please, yes of course there is no waste in government spending, it is all sooo needed.

Well, that was enlightening. Spoken like a true Conservative!

367 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:52:44pm

re: #362 palomino

Huh? Philly's only played NYG once so far, and they won. That was a week ago.

Vick may be a horrible person, but he's been a spectacular QB thus far this season. He'd probably be in the MVP mix except he missed some games and his rep doesn't help. His performance on MNF two weeks ago was one for the ages (4 TD passes, 2 rush TDs--he looked like a man playing with little boys). Unbelievably he went to prison and got better. He's what Vince Young was supposed to be, but probably will never develop into.

Vick didn't look that good last Sunday......... I hope it goes to Philip Rivers.

368 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:53:32pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not an answer. The question is, what would you cut? Where would you begin?

I think we're all opposed to waste, the issue is finding it, and agreeing on what really isn't needed.

OK you want it? Attrition. I would just not refill positions as they became empty. I would withdraw our troops from Europe, let them pay for their own defense, I would cut a whole bunch of foreign aid and instate tuition for illegals is not big on my to do list.

369 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:53:38pm

Bryan Ferry night, in the Giraffe's house...


More than this.
370 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:53:49pm

re: #365 palomino

There's only so much the human body can tolerate before breaking down. We could move to 28 games, but then the average NFL career would be 2 seasons, down from the current 4.

Yea but...... 4 preseason games are too much to charge what they charge.

371 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:53:59pm

A while back, someone pointed out an article about how much we spend annually on military bands and music groups of different sorts. Some people thought it was excessive, but others, many of whom are fiscal conservatives of various sorts, thought it was perfectly fine. Waste? Not so easy to define.

372 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:54:26pm

re: #366 austin_blue

Well, that was enlightening. Spoken like a true Conservative!

Thank you.

373 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:54:59pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not an answer. The question is, what would you cut? Where would you begin?

I think we're all opposed to waste, the issue is finding it, and agreeing on what really isn't needed.

Problem is that the noncontroversial cuts are only a few percent of the overall budget, so neither party gets into specifics as they don't want to alienate all those potentially angry voters.

374 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:55:09pm

re: #359 Slumbering Behemoth

Grants for studying fish farts, and the DEA.
/semi

Good! .005% of the budget! Let's continue, then!

What's next? Air traffic control? Transportation funding? Medical R&D?

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:55:15pm

re: #368 brookly red

OK you want it? Attrition. I would just not refill positions as they became empty. I would withdraw our troops from Europe, let them pay for their own defense, I would cut a whole bunch of foreign aid and instate tuition for illegals is not big on my to do list.

That's an answer, yes.

Although I'm not sure 'in-state tuition for illegals' falls under any federal budget. Does it?

376 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:55:21pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

It's one of them circular things. One says "raise taxes". But by how much, and on whom before fucking things up? "The rich".

Another says "cut spending". But by how much, and where without fucking things up? "The waste".

So it goes...

377 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:56:00pm

re: #374 austin_blue

Good! .005% of the budget! Let's continue, then!

What's next? Air traffic control? Transportation funding? Medical R&D?

Privatize!!!!!!!!!!

378 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:56:30pm

re: #369 Floral Giraffe

Bryan Ferry night, in the Giraffe's house...

[Video]
More than this.

If I was stranded on a desert island and could only choose ten albums, that would be one. brilliant stuff.

379 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:56:40pm

re: #375 SanFranciscoZionist

That's an answer, yes.

Although I'm not sure 'in-state tuition for illegals' falls under any federal budget. Does it?

no I just wanted to razzz you :)

380 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:57:16pm

re: #375 SanFranciscoZionist

That's an answer, yes.

Although I'm not sure 'in-state tuition for illegals' falls under any federal budget. Does it?

Also, foreign aid counts for a negligible amount of the budget.

Now, about attrition...what positions?

381 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:57:42pm

re: #352 brookly red

Cut everything that doesn't affect MY constituents.
No sarc tags.

382 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:58:34pm

re: #381 Floral Giraffe

Cut everything that doesn't affect MY constituents.
No sarc tags.

You have constituents?

383 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 7:59:23pm

re: #368 brookly red

OK you want it? Attrition. I would just not refill positions as they became empty. I would withdraw our troops from Europe, let them pay for their own defense, I would cut a whole bunch of foreign aid and instate tuition for illegals is not big on my to do list.

Uh huh, uh huh. You are up to about 1% or less! Well done! You realize that Federal income is two thirds of Federal expenditures right now?

You got 32% to go, boyo! Get crackin'!

384 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:00:05pm

re: #367 Mr Pancakes

Vick didn't look that good last Sunday... I hope it goes to Philip Rivers.

Vick's "not that good" is still better than most QBs in the league. You don't get the top QB rating by accident. He reads defenses now, something he never did in Atlanta. And Philly's D let them down...giving up 31 to the Bears.

I think I'd vote for Arian Foster--leads the league in rushing, 2nd in TDs.

385 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:00:06pm

re: #362 palomino

Huh? Philly's only played NYG once so far, and they won. That was a week ago.

Vick may be a horrible person, but he's been a spectacular QB thus far this season. He'd probably be in the MVP mix except he missed some games and his rep doesn't help. His performance on MNF two weeks ago was one for the ages (4 TD passes, 2 rush TDs--he looked like a man playing with little boys). Unbelievably he went to prison and got better. He's what Vince Young was supposed to be, but probably will never develop into.

The Eagles played NYG earlier this season and Vick got knocked out of the game with cracked ribs.

386 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:00:40pm

re: #375 SanFranciscoZionist

That's an answer, yes.

Although I'm not sure 'in-state tuition for illegals' falls under any federal budget. Does it?

I highly doubt it. Much more likely to do with college revenues. Though I do think it's rather douche-tastic to cripple out of state citizens with out of state tuition fees (they can be huge), while granting illegal immigrants the privilege in state tuition fees.

If that sort of thing is happening. Is it?

387 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:01:12pm

re: #370 Mr Pancakes

Yea but... 4 preseason games are too much to charge what they charge.

I agree, but those games are valuable as a sort of tryout that lets coaches look at rookies and second stringers in games that don't count.

388 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:01:18pm

re: #383 austin_blue

Uh huh, uh huh. You are up to about 1% or less! Well done! You realize that Federal income is two thirds of Federal expenditures right now?

You got 32% to go, boyo! Get crackin'!

Well, foreign aid is about 1%. How much do we actually pay to keep troops in Europe? (Also, if we withdraw them, we lose a number of very strategic and useful things.)

389 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:02:23pm

re: #384 palomino

Vick's "not that good" is still better than most QBs in the league. You don't get the top QB rating by accident. He reads defenses now, something he never did in Atlanta. And Philly's D let them down...giving up 31 to the Bears.

I think I'd vote for Arian Foster--leads the league in rushing, 2nd in TDs.

I don't like Vick so I'm biased........ Rivers is far more influential than Adrian Foster on his team's success.

390 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:02:39pm

re: #382 Mr Pancakes

You have constituents?

Right here. You take away her "paddle and riding crop" budget allotments, and I swear I will revolt!
/

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:02:40pm

re: #386 Slumbering Behemoth

I highly doubt it. Much more likely to do with college revenues. Though I do think it's rather douche-tastic to cripple out of state citizens with out of state tuition fees (they can be huge), while granting illegal immigrants the privilege in state tuition fees.

If that sort of thing is happening. Is it?

Funny you should ask...

But that's not going to help the federal budget at all, at all.

392 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:03:12pm

re: #383 austin_blue

Uh huh, uh huh. You are up to about 1% or less! Well done! You realize that Federal income is two thirds of Federal expenditures right now?

You got 32% to go, boyo! Get crackin'!

I love the games you all play, the fact is I don't need to explain where to cut it is you that needs to explain how to pay for it all... so what next a 200% tax rate? You done ran out of other people's money and need to start dealing with that fact. :)

393 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:03:12pm

re: #387 palomino

I agree, but those games are valuable as a sort of tryout that lets coaches look at rookies and second stringers in games that don't count.

Scrimmages would work........

394 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:03:51pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

The Eagles played NYG earlier this season and Vick got knocked out of the game with cracked ribs.

Right, but they've only played the NYG once so far. Vick only played the first quarter there, so the loss can't really be hung on him. Vick is far better now than he ever was in Atlanta.

395 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:05:16pm

re: #392 brookly red

I love the games you all play, the fact is I don't need to explain where to cut it is you that needs to explain how to pay for it all... so what next a 200% tax rate? You done ran out of other people's money and need to start dealing with that fact. :)

Iif we returned taxes to the rates they were at for much of the 20th century, we would have far less cutting to do.

The problem is every bit as much a problem of insufficient taxation as it is of excessive spending.

396 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:05:42pm

re: #383 austin_blue

Uh huh, uh huh. You are up to about 1% or less! Well done! You realize that Federal income is two thirds of Federal expenditures right now?

You got 32% to go, boyo! Get crackin'!

Well, for those under 45 or so, we do need to do a partial privatization of Social Security. We'll also need to reduce Social Security benefits to more affluent seniors. These changes won't be popular, though.

397 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:07:45pm

re: #394 palomino

Right, but they've only played the NYG once so far. Vick only played the first quarter there, so the loss can't really be hung on him. Vick is far better now than he ever was in Atlanta.

That last I agree with. He's a far better quarterback than he ever was before. His arm has a lot more range and accuracy.

398 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:08:07pm

re: #395 Fozzie Bear

Iif we returned taxes to the rates they were at for much of the 20th century, we would have far less cutting to do.

The problem is every bit as much a problem of insufficient taxation as it is of excessive spending.

sure, what ever, no problem tax away...

399 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:09:14pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

Well, for those under 45 or so, we do need to do a partial privatization of Social Security. We'll also need to reduce Social Security benefits to more affluent seniors. These changes won't be popular, though.

how do you get to say that? Can you imagine if I had said that?

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

Well, for those under 45 or so, we do need to do a partial privatization of Social Security. We'll also need to reduce Social Security benefits to more affluent seniors. These changes won't be popular, though.

They sure won't. I can hear Beck raving about that last one already.

401 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:11:42pm

Clearly, SS needs to be means-tested in some way. That will sure piss off a LOT of people, though.

402 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:13:04pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Clearly, SS needs to be means-tested in some way. That will sure piss off a LOT of people, though.

Even though you're a lib.... I agree with you on that.

403 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:13:25pm

re: #389 Mr Pancakes

I don't like Vick so I'm biased... Rivers is far more influential than Adrian Foster on his team's success.

I don't like Vick as a person either, but I only care about him as a football player. He's doing things this season that few, if any, QBs have ever done before. And maybe he's one of those rare cases of successful rehab. He seems to be doing all the right things both on and off the field.

His straight up passing numbers are among the best in the league; when you combine that with his running ability you've got something special, almost unique. Randall Cunningham was close, but by the time he developed into a great passer, he was well past his prime as a runner. Vince Young and the old Vick were great runners, but not solid passers. McNabb was never this good a runner. Vick may be the prototype of the 21st century QB. Why not have your best all-around athlete play QB?

404 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:14:14pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Clearly, SS needs to be means-tested in some way. That will sure piss off a LOT of people, though.

Why does it need to be means tested? Why should someone pay 15% of their wages into a ponzie scheme for their whole life just to be told they made too much to get any back?

405 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:14:25pm

re: #389 Mr Pancakes

I don't like Vick so I'm biased... Rivers is far more influential than Adrian Foster on his team's success.

Where do you think the Texans would be without a running game? I agree Rivers is huge, but that doesn't diminish Foster.

406 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:15:02pm

re: #404 brookly red

Why does it need to be means tested? Why should someone pay 15% of their wages into a ponzie scheme for their whole life just to be told they made too much to get any back?

Yep, that's the argument you're gonna hear right away.

407 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:16:09pm

re: #393 Mr Pancakes

Scrimmages would work...

No way. That's practice. Coaches need to see rookies and free agents and second stringers in game situations against real competition. If you want more games, just get ready for a lot more injuries.

408 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:16:14pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

They sure won't. I can hear Beck raving about that last one already.

I know. But Austin_Blue wanted ideas, so I put forward one that would make a dent. Anything that makes a dent is going to provoke screaming, but there's nothing for it; No matter what we do, people are going to get hurt. Keeping the damage to an acceptable minimum is the best that can be done.

409 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:17:12pm

re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist

Yep, that's the argument you're gonna hear right away.

now if they followed their own law and actually put it in a "lock box" but yeah good luck with that.

410 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:17:36pm

re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist

Funny you should ask...

But that's not going to help the federal budget at all, at all.

Thanks for the link. Heh, you'd think I'd know that already, being a resident.

On in state v. out of state tuition... if you have lived in a certain state for one year, you are eligible for in state tuition. I suppose this requirement could be extended to illegal immigrants who have resided in the state for that time. Still seems a bit unfair, but whatever.

As far as any of that affecting the federal budget, maybe not so much? But it might have an affect on the state budget, as states subsidize their colleges (IIRC?).

411 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:18:13pm

re: #403 palomino

Why not have your best all-around athlete play QB?

Oh play him for sure and he has done well........ PR should have better numbers however when all is said and done because Vick played an abbreviated season.

412 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:18:15pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Clearly, SS needs to be means-tested in some way. That will sure piss off a LOT of people, though.

As the kid of worked hard all their life parents, who paid WAY more into SS than they ever received, I think "means testing" is a good concept, but it's their money, that they paid in. Why shouldn't they get it back? Yes, there are needier peoples, but, they paid into the system, on a promise, how can you change it now?

413 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:18:34pm

re: #397 Dark_Falcon

That last I agree with. He's a far better quarterback than he ever was before. His arm has a lot more range and accuracy.

Which is a huge surprise considering the fact that most of the time since he left the Falcons he spent in prison.

414 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:18:53pm

re: #404 brookly red

Why does it need to be means tested? Why should someone pay 15% of their wages into a ponzie scheme for their whole life just to be told they made too much to get any back?

Because it is there so that poor old people won't starve, primarily. Rich old people aren't going to starve. Hence, means testing.

If cuts need to happen, that's the kind of thing that would have to be done. That, and raise taxes.

415 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:19:09pm

ChenZhen has just posted on LGF Pages.

416 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:19:19pm

re: #405 palomino

Where do you think the Texans would be without a running game? I agree Rivers is huge, but that doesn't diminish Foster.

Houston will not make the playoffs...... and I'm fairly confidant the Bolts will.

417 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:20:16pm

re: #404 brookly red

Why does it need to be means tested? Why should someone pay 15% of their wages into a ponzie scheme for their whole life just to be told they made too much to get any back?

Because there's no money with which to pay him, Brookly. In order to have enough to provide pensions for those who really need them, they better off are going to have to give theirs up. And people my age will not get any pension at all. Help saving and with 401(k) is all those under 40 can have. The rest of the money doesn't exist except as debt, and we can't afford more debt.

418 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:20:30pm

re: #414 Fozzie Bear

Because it is there so that poor old people won't starve, primarily. Rich old people aren't going to starve. Hence, means testing.

If cuts need to happen, that's the kind of thing that would have to be done. That, and raise taxes.

it is people like you that force me to invest overseas... what part of mine do you not understand?

419 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:21:33pm

re: #418 brookly red

it is people like you that force me to invest overseas... what part of mine do you not understand?

lol.

Weren't you just talking about needing to balance the budget? Now SS is sacrosanct? What isn't?

420 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:22:02pm

re: #415 NJDhockeyfan

ChenZhen has just posted on LGF Pages.

Troll Sighted. NJDHF, toss green smoke to mark troll location. Logic artillery will bombard marked location!

421 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:22:54pm

re: #419 Fozzie Bear

lol.

Weren't you just talking about needing to balance the budget? Now SS is sacrosanct? What isn't?

privatization would go a long way balancing the SS budget...

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:23:24pm

re: #410 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks for the link. Heh, you'd think I'd know that already, being a resident.

On in state v. out of state tuition... if you have lived in a certain state for one year, you are eligible for in state tuition. I suppose this requirement could be extended to illegal immigrants who have resided in the state for that time. Still seems a bit unfair, but whatever.

As far as any of that affecting the federal budget, maybe not so much? But it might have an affect on the state budget, as states subsidize their colleges (IIRC?).

Yes, they do. I'm not sure of the total numbers or impact. I dunno. My first instinct is to reject the idea, but honestly...most of these students are kids, they came with their parents, and making them pay a shitload of extra tuition money isn't going to solve immigration issues or help anyone particularly. God knows, charging undocumented students full freight isn't gonna balance the California budget.

423 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:23:28pm

re: #392 brookly red

I love the games you all play, the fact is I don't need to explain where to cut it is you that needs to explain how to pay for it all... so what next a 200% tax rate? You done ran out of other people's money and need to start dealing with that fact. :)

Well, that is as hollow and brainless a comment as I can imagine.

So, how to pay for it.

Social Security: Remove the ridiculous $106,000 cap and tax all income so that if a company wants to pay an employee $300,000 (their choice!), both the company and the employee each pay an additional 3.6%.

Income tax: Raise marginal tax rate on income (joint filing) from $250,000 to $500,000 from 33% to 38%.

Raise joint filings on $500,000 to $1,000,000 from 35% to 44%.

Raise joint filings on $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 from 44% to 47%.

For each additional $1,000,000 of income, raise the rate 3%.

Cap the marginal tax rate at 90%.

Treat bonuses as income.

Index stock options.

Index capital gains based on profit versus inflation and treat it as income.

There. How hard was that?

424 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:23:52pm

re: #415 NJDhockeyfan

ChenZhen has just posted on LGF Pages.

About anything interesting?

425 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:24:34pm

re: #418 brookly red

it is people like you that force me to invest overseas... what part of mine do you not understand?

Yeah, screw the old starving people and the deficit.

426 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:24:35pm

re: #416 Mr Pancakes

Houston will not make the playoffs... and I'm fairly confidant the Bolts will.

Unless they choke.

Good eve LGF!

427 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:24:57pm

re: #421 brookly red

SS resulted from the Depression when old people were literally starving. That is what the program was designed for. What would you do for the old people who never earned enough to save, or honestly just didn't?

428 brookly red  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:25:02pm

OK I have had enough class envy for one night... see you all next time comrades.

429 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:25:34pm

I'm so glad I missed it.

430 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:25:37pm

re: #402 Mr Pancakes

This communique just in from Lord Cheney...

Your pay will been docked for an indeterminable amount of time, and you are now on disciplinary probation pending further review.
/

431 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:25:58pm

re: #426 Stanley Sea

Unless they choke.

Good eve LGF!

Have the Chargers ever choked? Don't answer that.

432 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:26:48pm

re: #431 Mr Pancakes

Have the Chargers ever choked? Don't answer that.

Just keep an eye on Brandon Siler #59. (he's injured now, hopefully better by next game)

433 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:27:13pm

re: #411 Mr Pancakes

Oh play him for sure and he has done well... PR should have better numbers however when all is said and done because Vick played an abbreviated season.

Absolutely, and not trying to take anything away from Rivers (although here comes Brees, with 4 300-yard games in his last 5 starts). That 1984 Marino record won't last much longer. There are 4 guys on pace to have at least 4800 yards this season.

I just think that guys like Vick, who have the most overall athletic talent on their teams, will increasingly be seen as QBs--and not WRs, RBs or DBs--at the HS and college level. Why not?

434 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:27:17pm

re: #430 Slumbering Behemoth

This communique just in from Lord Cheney...

Your pay will been docked for an indeterminable amount of time, and you are now on disciplinary probation pending further review.
/

Good thing I'm self employed..... oh wait, no it's not.

435 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:27:20pm

re: #428 brookly red

Thats not cool, why not just answer what SFZ and I asked?

436 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:27:26pm

re: #428 brookly red

OK I have had enough class envy for one night... see you all next time comrades.

Wow! Just how rich are you?

437 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:28:03pm

re: #436 austin_blue

Wow! Just how rich are you?

Unemployed rich I guess.

438 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:30:28pm

re: #429 Stanley Sea

SEC Championship, who are you for?

439 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:30:50pm

re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist

About anything interesting?

No, he's just trying to embarrass Charles, and failing at it. Charles lives in his head.

440 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:30:55pm

re: #432 Stanley Sea

Just keep an eye on Brandon Siler #59. (he's injured now, hopefully better by next game)

Brandon is a stud...... so is Antonio Garay

441 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:31:03pm

re: #438 sizzleRI

SEC Championship, who are you for?

SPURRIER, all.the.way.

442 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:31:20pm

re: #428 brookly red

OK I have had enough class envy for one night... see you all next time comrades.

So balancing the budget is "class envy"?

443 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:32:07pm

re: #422 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, they do. I'm not sure of the total numbers or impact. I dunno. My first instinct is to reject the idea, but honestly...most of these students are kids, they came with their parents, and making them pay a shitload of extra tuition money isn't going to solve immigration issues or help anyone particularly. God knows, charging undocumented students full freight isn't gonna balance the California budget.

Certainly not. But if they don't meet the qualifications used to judge "instate tuition" status, I hardly think it fair that they get a price-cut privilege over citizens coming from out of state who also don't meet those qualifications.

444 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:32:26pm

re: #440 Mr Pancakes

Brandon is a stud... so is Antonio Garay


[Video]

He came to our Gator club bar & hung out. It was great. Does the Gator chomp after a sack. We are proud!

445 webevintage  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:32:52pm

re: #428 brookly red

OK I have had enough class envy for one night... see you all next time comrades.

Jesus, it is always "class envy" or "class warfare" when one points out that maybe the people who benefited the most by being Americans and using the resources all of us pay for pay more.

446 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:32:58pm

re: #442 Fozzie Bear

So balancing the budget is "class envy"?

Anything that suggests that any human being in the United States making more than $20,000 annually might have to someday pay higher taxes than the taxes they currently pay, or even not receive steady tax cuts, is characterized as class envy in some people's books.

447 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:33:11pm

re: #444 Stanley Sea

He came to our Gator club bar & hung out. It was great. Does the Gator chomp after a sack. We are proud!

That's cool.....

448 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:33:42pm

re: #418 brookly red

it is people like you that force me to invest overseas... what part of mine do you not understand?

FTFY

449 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:33:48pm

You know who wins Asshole of the Day?

John frickin loser McCain.

450 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:34:09pm

re: #448 goddamnedfrank

FTFY

hey!

451 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:34:49pm

re: #443 Slumbering Behemoth

Certainly not. But if they don't meet the qualifications used to judge "instate tuition" status, I hardly think it fair that they get a price-cut privilege over citizens coming from out of state who also don't meet those qualifications.

That makes sense, but OTOH, the citizens have in-state colleges of their own...and these kids don't, and they're not wealthy people. I feel weird supporting it, but at the same time, I kind of have to throw up my hands and put it in the same basket as a lot of other stuff...what's better for California?

452 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:36:20pm

re: #416 Mr Pancakes

Houston will not make the playoffs... and I'm fairly confidant the Bolts will.

Maybe, Houston is schizophrenic; and there's no great team in their division. If SD can't win their mediocre division, they've got no place in the playoffs.

As far as overall offensive accomplishments, Foster is close to Rivers. He leads the league with 1600 yards from scrimmage, and is on pace to be close to the overall season record there.

Rivers is now 2nd behind Orton in passing yds. and tied with three guys for the lead in TD passes. You could also make a compelling case that Brady deserves the award. NE wouldn't be much without him; with him, they're 9-2.

453 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:36:34pm

re: #445 webevintage

Jesus, it is always "class envy" or "class warfare" when one points out that maybe the people who benefited the most by being Americans and using the resources all of us pay for pay more.

I pay more taxes than poorer people than I do. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS. I hope to some day be much wealthier than I am now, and pay my taxes accordingly. This is how you pay for all the shit we need and want in our society. What's the problem?

455 calochortus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:36:46pm

re: #443 Slumbering Behemoth

The point is that they are living in the state and their families are paying stated taxes even though they are not here legally. Residents of other states are just that-residents of other states.

456 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:37:04pm

re: #449 Stanley Sea

You know who wins Asshole of the Day?

John frickin loser McCain.

Is he digging in his heels about DADT?

457 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:37:29pm

re: #456 SanFranciscoZionist

Is he digging in his heels about DADT?

Yep. Completely.

458 calochortus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:37:59pm

re: #455 calochortus

That would be state taxes
PIMF

459 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:38:01pm

re: #421 brookly red

privatization would go a long way balancing the SS budget...

When it comes to the privatization of Social Security, it would seem to do so would result in people investing their own money in the ways that they please. Which folks can already do.

So... when one invokes "privatization" in this sense, how is it different than saying "completely abolish SS altogether"? Seriously, I am ignorant of the details here.

460 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:38:39pm

re: #457 Stanley Sea

Yep. Completely.

Didn't he say he'd change his stance if it was approved by...oh, never mind.

What the hell difference can it possibly make to him?

461 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:39:25pm

re: #459 Slumbering Behemoth

When it comes to the privatization of Social Security, it would seem to do so would result in people investing their own money in the ways that they please. Which folks can already do.

So... when one invokes "privatization" in this sense, how is it different than saying "completely abolish SS altogether"? Seriously, I am ignorant of the details here.

That's because yes, thats exactly what "privatizing" SS would be.

462 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:39:50pm

re: #457 Stanley Sea

Yep. Completely.

Why does that make him an asshole?

463 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:40:09pm

re: #441 Stanley Sea

I have to go Auburn, I want to root for the SEC in the National Championship. (Tennessee won against Kentucky, I mean nobody cares but I have to share)

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:40:15pm

re: #459 Slumbering Behemoth

When it comes to the privatization of Social Security, it would seem to do so would result in people investing their own money in the ways that they please. Which folks can already do.

So... when one invokes "privatization" in this sense, how is it different than saying "completely abolish SS altogether"? Seriously, I am ignorant of the details here.

I don't know. I ask questions when it comes up around here, but I've never gotten an answer to my last question, which is, "OK, what about the guy who lost all his SS money in the stock market? How do we pay for him to not die in a cardboard box on Main Street?"

If someone could explain that part to me, I might be more amenable to the whole idea, but as it is, it just sounds like getting rid of SS altogether.

465 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:40:23pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Why does that make him an asshole?

Hypocrisy, pandering, dissembling.

Take your pick.

466 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:41:39pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Why does that make him an asshole?

Because he always said he'd approve lifting it if the brass said it was a good idea. Now they do, and he's not convinced.

467 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:41:51pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Why does that make him an asshole?

Because he was for it (Let's wait for the Military rept) before he was against it. And he is out of touch, way out of touch.

468 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:42:07pm

re: #451 SanFranciscoZionist

That makes sense, but OTOH, the citizens have in-state colleges of their own...and these kids don't, and they're not wealthy people. I feel weird supporting it, but at the same time, I kind of have to throw up my hands and put it in the same basket as a lot of other stuff...what's better for California?

This goes back to "were do we cut 'waste', and where do we 'raise taxes'". No easy answers. I've never felt better about not being an economist. What a gawt-damned headache!

469 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:42:21pm

re: #466 SanFranciscoZionist

Because he always said he'd approve lifting it if the brass said it was a good idea. Now they do, and he's not convinced.

From the WaPo.

470 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:42:35pm

re: #454 Stanley Sea

Sarah Palin's Enemies List

I'd put Charlie Gibson up higher. He really got the ball rolling when he asked her that gotcha question, "What do you think of the Bush doctrine?" The deer in the headlights look on her face was priceless.

She had no clue what he was talking about, which is shocking since most armchair political junkies like me had been conversant with the Bush doctrine for FOUR years up to that point.

471 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:42:49pm

re: #463 sizzleRI

I have to go Auburn, I want to root for the SEC in the National Championship. (Tennessee won against Kentucky, I mean nobody cares but I have to share)

So funny rooting for Auburn this weekend. Goes against my internal being. But damn, that was an excellent win. They deserve it.

472 calochortus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:42:52pm

We have forgotten how many of the elderly were poor in the "good old days". Social security has been an incredibly effective program.

473 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:43:04pm

re: #467 Stanley Sea

Because he was for it (Let's wait for the Military rept) before he was against it. And he is out of touch, way out of touch.

He's just a republican, and he knows his base. He's not out of touch.

474 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:43:26pm

re: #470 palomino

I'd put Charlie Gibson up higher. He really got the ball rolling when he asked her that gotcha question, "What do you think of the Bush doctrine?" The deer in the headlights look on her face was priceless.

She had no clue what he was talking about, which is shocking since most armchair political junkies like me had been conversant with the Bush doctrine for FOUR years up to that point.

Then Dennis Prager insisted that NO ONE could have possibly known what Gibson meant by that question. It was absolutely ridiculous.

475 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:43:37pm

re: #452 palomino

Rivers is now 2nd behind Orton in passing yds.

Orton believe me is not in the running........ you could make a case for Brady.

476 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:43:50pm

re: #464 SanFranciscoZionist

Exactly!

477 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:43:55pm

re: #451 SanFranciscoZionist

That makes sense, but OTOH, the citizens have in-state colleges of their own...and these kids don't, and they're not wealthy people. I feel weird supporting it, but at the same time, I kind of have to throw up my hands and put it in the same basket as a lot of other stuff...what's better for California?

A quality education for the brightest minds in the State?

I know, too damned simple a concept.

The T-baggers at Fresno State made me gag. I mean, this kid is a charismatic leader at a State college. Why trash him?

And with that, I must bid you adios. Sweet dreams, my Lizards. I really am looking forward to policy discussions on taxes/expenditures (yes I have a Public Policy degree, among others, and am a hideous wonk) , even if the more Conservative Lizards scuttle sideways.

It's important.

478 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:44:25pm

re: #473 Fozzie Bear

He's just a republican, and he knows his base. He's not out of touch.

Well, they and he are not much longer for this world.

479 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:45:30pm

re: #473 Fozzie Bear

He's just a republican, and he knows his base. He's not out of touch.

Give him some credit. He just praised Russ Feingold and regretted his departure, and the "ELEVENTY!!1" brigade went after him for that. He figures he can only do so much.

480 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:46:19pm

re: #475 Mr Pancakes

Orton believe me is not in the running... you could make a case for Brady.

Of course not. Orton's team sucks, and his numbers are inflated because Denver has to pass all the time to try and catch up. Just making the point that a lot of guys are putting up huge passing numbers. The league has changed tremendously over the past 30 years. In the 70s every team ran more than it passed; now the opposite is true for almost every team. I find it way more exciting, but the old timey purists may feel otherwise.

481 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:46:56pm

re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist

About anything interesting?

No, just the usual bile.

482 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:47:00pm

re: #479 Dark_Falcon

Give him some credit. He just praised Russ Feingold and regretted his departure, and the "ELEVENTY!!1" brigade went after him for that. He figures he can only do so much.

He can either grow a spine, or be a scumbag. DADT is a flagrant civil rights violation. It's so stupidly obvious.

483 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:48:40pm

re: #471 Stanley Sea

Oh, I know. I flew to Tennessee for Thanksgiving to see my mom, and we pretty much watched or talked football all weekend. What a win by Auburn, I knew they would come back though, they really have the team. I still think SC could win. What do you think about all the TCU controversy? Obviously Boise St. deserved to lose, running your mouth will never be a winning play. But if Auburn loses, who plays Oregon? (I just do not see Oregon St. beating Oregon).

484 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:48:47pm

Oh darn. I had some questions for Chen.

re: #11 The Blue Boy

Chen, now that you're here for a couple of minutes I'm kind of curious. Why is this so important to you? It's been what, 2 to 3 years since you've been banned from LGF? Don't you have any more important things in your life to take care of? Perhaps I spouse, girlfriend, or hobbies? Or is this beef something you're going to take to your grave?

485 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:49:05pm

re: #480 palomino

Of course not. Orton's team sucks, and his numbers are inflated because Denver has to pass all the time to try and catch up. Just making the point that a lot of guys are putting up huge passing numbers. The league has changed tremendously over the past 30 years. In the 70s every team ran more than it passed; now the opposite is true for almost every team. I find it way more exciting, but the old timey purists may feel otherwise.

I like the changes...... I remember a time where going for it on 4th down was taboo....... now they all do it.

486 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:49:30pm

re: #455 calochortus

The point is that they are living in the state and their families are paying stated taxes even though they are not here legally. Residents of other states are just that-residents of other states.

But that goes right past my point, though I may have presented it in a hamfisted manner...

Do illegal immigrants enjoy the privileged status of in state tuition despite the fact of not being eligible by definition?

In other words, would an illegal immigrant who has only resided in California for three months be granted the privilege of paying the in state tuition rate?

487 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:50:04pm

re: #484 Gus 802

Oh darn. I had some questions for Chen.

Chen, now that you're here for a couple of minutes I'm kind of curious. Why is this so important to you? It's been what, 2 to 3 years since you've been banned from LGF? Don't you have any more important things in your life to take care of? Perhaps I spouse, girlfriend, or hobbies? Or is this beef something you're going to take to your grave?

His sock hasn't been banned yet. Go after him.

488 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:51:18pm

re: #485 Mr Pancakes

I love that too. It is why I always favor college ball, they will go for it.

489 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:51:20pm

re: #487 Dark_Falcon

His sock hasn't been banned yet. Go after him.

He won't come in here. And if he does he won't give an honest answer. Probably tell me I have big feet or something.

490 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:51:54pm

re: #483 sizzleRI

Oh, I know. I flew to Tennessee for Thanksgiving to see my mom, and we pretty much watched or talked football all weekend. What a win by Auburn, I knew they would come back though, they really have the team. I still think SC could win. What do you think about all the TCU controversy? Obviously Boise St. deserved to lose, running your mouth will never be a winning play. But if Auburn loses, who plays Oregon? (I just do not see Oregon St. beating Oregon).

I remember you talking about your Mom and her orange nails!!! I really have no idea how it's going to pan out, I'm basically depressed, but next year, next year!

491 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:52:36pm

re: #485 Mr Pancakes

I like the changes... I remember a time where going for it on 4th down was taboo... now they all do it.

Agreed. That old "three yards and a cloud of dust" mentality of running the ball up the middle on 75% of all plays was incredibly dull.

492 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:52:53pm

re: #487 Dark_Falcon

His sock hasn't been banned yet. Go after him.

RP says "Don't feed the troll".
But, he'll be tender after grilling, with a bit of whacking.
Don't wait for Mr. Stinky Beaumont to do the job!

493 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:54:03pm

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

But that goes right past my point, though I may have presented it in a hamfisted manner...

Do illegal immigrants enjoy the privileged status of in state tuition despite the fact of not being eligible by definition?

In other words, would an illegal immigrant who has only resided in California for three months be granted the privilege of paying the in state tuition rate?

Yes, instate tuition for illegals, is where the current courts are leaning.

494 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:54:46pm

re: #450 Stanley Sea

hey!

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Why does that make him an asshole?

Because his mask is off. Every single one of his wait for it conditions has been met with another new bullshit goal post. Gates has asked for it, the Pentagon study is in and the vast majority of the troops don't mind. The vast majority of troops were against racial integration of the army when Truman did it, it happened anyway because it was right then and it's right now. This is all just naked personal bigotry, that's all it is for anybody against ending the policy. Nobody can pretend to give a shit about effectively fighting the war on terror who is for systematically purging the armed forces of middle east language translators and other desperately needed specialists.

That's why he's an asshole, because he's exposed himself as a untrustworthy, goalpost moving, bigoted piece of trash. He just hates gays more than he loves keeping his word.

495 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:55:00pm

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

But that goes right past my point, though I may have presented it in a hamfisted manner...

Do illegal immigrants enjoy the privileged status of in state tuition despite the fact of not being eligible by definition?

In other words, would an illegal immigrant who has only resided in California for three months be granted the privilege of paying the in state tuition rate?

I'm late to this debate, so forgive me if I've missed these points. The whole thing about in-state tuition was that you were contributing to the state for a year. Illegal or legal, if you lived in a state for a year you've paid sales tax, property tax (vis a vie your rent etc.) etc.etc.etc. Anyone in a state for less than a year wouldn't qualify regardless.

496 calochortus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:55:03pm

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

But that goes right past my point, though I may have presented it in a hamfisted manner...

Do illegal immigrants enjoy the privileged status of in state tuition despite the fact of not being eligible by definition?

In other words, would an illegal immigrant who has only resided in California for three months be granted the privilege of paying the in state tuition rate?

Or I didn't read carefully enough.

As I understand it (and I could be wrong) the students must have been attending a CA high school for a period of time which would take care of that. Generally one can establish residence after a year-and this would just extend it to young people who are here illegally through no fault of their own.

497 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:55:10pm

re: #482 Fozzie Bear

It was a good compromise in its time, but its time is ending. But further changes will take time and I don't want the Defense Authorization bill held hostage to DADT. Pull it off and vote on it separately. The military needs to the money, and so do I. Passing that bill is important to letting the military attend the events I sell.

498 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:55:15pm

re: #493 Floral Giraffe

Yes, instate tuition for illegals, is where the current courts are leaning.

I'm torn on this issue...... it's not the kid's fault.

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:55:33pm

re: #494 goddamnedfrank

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

Because his mask is off. Every single one of his wait for it conditions has been met with another new bullshit goal post. Gates has asked for it, the Pentagon study is in and the vast majority of the troops don't mind. The vast majority of troops were against racial integration of the army when Truman did it, it happened anyway because it was right then and it's right now. This is all just naked personal bigotry, that's all it is for anybody against ending the policy. Nobody can pretend to give a shit about effectively fighting the war on terror who is for systematically purging the armed forces of middle east language translators and other desperately needed specialists.

That's why he's an asshole, because he's exposed himself as a untrustworthy, goalpost moving, bigoted piece of trash. He just hates gays more than he loves keeping his word.

BTW, why ARE so many Middle Eastern language specialists gay? Does anyone know?

500 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:56:00pm

re: #490 Stanley Sea

Always next year, I know that! I am just always drawn in by the BSC conversations; rankings, and strength of schedule, and the undefeated teams from weak conferences, and then the arguing! ah, law school, how did I never know I needed you.

501 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:56:50pm

re: #496 calochortus

Or I didn't read carefully enough.

As I understand it (and I could be wrong) the students must have been attending a CA high school for a period of time which would take care of that. Generally one can establish residence after a year-and this would just extend it to young people who are here illegally through no fault of their own.

Fricken kids who came at age 3! They of course will contribute and should not be punished.

502 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:57:20pm

re: #492 Floral Giraffe

RP says "Don't feed the troll".
But, he'll be tender after grilling, with a bit of whacking.
Don't wait for Mr. Stinky Beaumont to do the job!

He's too rancid to grill. We'll use Space Jesus's Flounceapult instead.

503 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:58:46pm

re: #498 Mr Pancakes

I'm torn on this issue... it's not the kid's fault.

No, it's NOT the kids fault, but why should I as a legal taxpayer in the state, support this? I want the kid to get a good education. I just don't believe I should subsidize it, more, than I already do.

504 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:58:56pm

How You Like Me Now?

505 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:59:34pm

re: #503 Floral Giraffe

Well, how much is it worth to you to have less poor and uneducated people around you?

506 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 8:59:41pm
507 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:07pm

re: #503 Floral Giraffe

No, it's NOT the kids fault, but why should I as a legal taxpayer in the state, support this? I want the kid to get a good education. I just don't believe I should subsidize it, more, than I already do.

That's why I'm torn........ there is no win-win.

508 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:08pm

re: #503 Floral Giraffe

No, it's NOT the kids fault, but why should I as a legal taxpayer in the state, support this? I want the kid to get a good education. I just don't believe I should subsidize it, more, than I already do.

Quite Concur.

509 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:17pm

re: #464 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. I ask questions when it comes up around here, but I've never gotten an answer to my last question, which is, "OK, what about the guy who lost all his SS money in the stock market? How do we pay for him to not die in a cardboard box on Main Street?"

If someone could explain that part to me, I might be more amenable to the whole idea, but as it is, it just sounds like getting rid of SS altogether.

That's what it sounds like to me, abolishing it altogether. I don't see how "privatizing SS" could mean anything else.

On a tangent... Recall Sharon Angle and her crap regarding unemployment insurance? I talked smack on her for that, as unemployment payments come from what the individual worker has paid into the system. That's their money. Money they've been required by the gov't to set aside for such times. Why should not the same apply to those who pay into the SS system? (Not your argument, I know. As I said, a tangent on my part.)

510 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:20pm

re: #506 palomino

WTF? Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

Of course not. She stands on her porch staring into their windows.

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:32pm

re: #503 Floral Giraffe

No, it's NOT the kids fault, but why should I as a legal taxpayer in the state, support this? I want the kid to get a good education. I just don't believe I should subsidize it, more, than I already do.

I'd rather consider the kid an investment in the state's future.

512 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:44pm

re: #507 Mr Pancakes

That's why I'm torn... there is no win-win.

That's most of life.

513 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:00:44pm

re: #506 palomino

WTF? Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

They can see her house.

514 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:01:37pm

re: #497 re: #497 Dark_Falcon

Thats great that the military needs to attend events you go to. I respect that. But, for me, this is my chance to serve openly. So please excuse me if I do not see the vote as an irritation that needs to be pulled off and dealt with. It is a civil rights issue. Please understand that.

515 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:01:53pm

re: #506 palomino

WTF? Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin is the walking, talking definition of the word 'nekulturny'.

516 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:02:32pm

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

He's too rancid to grill. We'll use Space Jesus's Flounceapult instead.

Yeah. What was I thinking. I thought maybe I could cure him in 5 minutes. But he's like a used car salesman on a mission. Probably trying to post another link again.

"Daddy? What was your life's work?"

"Well son. Let me tell you about Little Green Footballs and the memory hole..."

Yawn.

517 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:02:41pm

re: #506 palomino

WTF? Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

L O L. What a concise put down. I am embarrassed and I hope to hell it ends soon.

518 calochortus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:02:42pm

re: #503 Floral Giraffe

Why subsidize anyone's education?
And generally the parents have been working and paying taxes for some time. Often the immigration status of families is mixed-say a legal working dad, a mom who came anyone with a kid (both illegal) and a couple kids born here who are citizens. One kid can't go to college (too expensive) and the others can (because they are subsidized)?

519 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:02:50pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd rather consider the kid an investment in the state's future.

Sorry, but no. If you're not here legally, you don't get such benefits. Even if its not your fault.

520 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:03:12pm

re: #513 Killgore Trout

They can see her house.

Obama was young and relatively inexperienced. But he wasn't a walking punchline like Sarah. The idea of her getting elected is still preposterous; she's just not taken seriously by more than the hardcore gop/tea party base.

521 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:03:23pm

Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

I have already called Sarah Palin a pith-headed bimbo from the back of beyond, in this column. I shall now go one step further. By attacking the democratically elected President of the United States of America at a sensitive time in her country's history, she shows the tact of a boorish drunkard bawling obscenities at a funeral.

If Sarah Palin is not some kind of a massive political joke in the USA, wheeled out to liven up the political scene from time to time with nonsensical and pastiche (one hopes) displays of sheer and utter ignorance, then it is worrying. It is even more so if anyone other than a manic depressive suffering from a chronic lack of lithium takes this...female...seriously.

Hockey Mum Sarah ex-Governess of Alaska is famous for her shrill shrieking style, displaying a pitifully shallow persona which one hopes is stage-managed to give the rest of the world a good chuckle at the Americans' ability and unique quality to make fun of themselves, a real-life female version of Homer Simpson-cum-Belching Barney at Mo's, giving us ever-more hilarious soundbites as she sets herself up as the dumbest woman on Earth.

Just occasionally, one encounters a bar-room idiot whose party piece is belching loudly before falling backwards off his stool, bouncing off the floor on his backside with a background provided by guffaws of laughter, yet who winks knowingly as he is carried out with his feet scraping along the ground and says "Don't worry son, most of it is an act".

The act. It reminds one of Marilyn Monroe putting on the act of the dumb blonde. But an act it was, a character projected by a shrewd, intelligent and charismatic woman with the ability to invent a persona. Sarah Palin, however, is the real-life thing. And it is becoming patently obvious that it isn't an act.

Sarah Palin, the one famous for ludicrous statements such as "I want to help clean up the state that is so sorry today of journalism. And I have a communications degree"; she is after all someone who "must have lived such a doggoned sheltered life", Sarah "We're all Arizonans now" Palin, cracking down on immigrants when the US of A is after all a country formed by...whom?

And now she turns not only against the fibre and backbone of her country, but against its democratically-elected President, accusing him of being incompetent for not stopping Wikileaks. Where was she and where was her GOP before and during the 9/11 attacks? She accuses President Obama of not taking "steps" to assure the leaks were not published. What "steps"?

Sinister Sarah Palin then goes on to insinuate that she is an advocate of cyber terrorism, questioning "Did we use all the cyber tools at our disposal to dismantle WikiLeaks?" Surely a more sensible question would have been why the material for the leaks was provided in the first place...and this has nothing to do with President Obama, but indeed speaks volumes about the State apparatus itself which goes beyond party politics. Her question also speaks volumes about her own inability to perform logical and strategic thinking.

President Obama after all knows the difference between North and South Korea, he knows that Hawaii is the largest US island and not Kodiak and he does not use the expression "refudiate".

If anything is a threat to the national security of the United States of America, it is this screaming, unrefined oaf with as much class as a searing release of flatulence followed by hysterical giggling at a state banquet. Is this what the people of the USA deserve?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

522 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:03:33pm

If y'all haven't seen this, Killgore's page on Assange is very very good.

523 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:03:47pm

Sarah Palin is the hot girl in college you really wanted to go out with but she was too crazy even for a one night stand. Don't lie - we all knew one. I bet there is a male equivalent, as well.

524 elizajane  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:04:55pm

re: #506 palomino

WTF? Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

I was just about to link to this! Pravda! Hilarious.
h/t Andrew Sullivan
Excerpt:

Spankin' Sarah Palin: A clown short of a circus

I have already called Sarah Palin a pith-headed bimbo from the back of beyond, in this column. I shall now go one step further. By attacking the democratically elected President of the United States of America at a sensitive time in her country's history, she shows the tact of a boorish drunkard bawling obscenities at a funeral.
If Sarah Palin is not some kind of a massive political joke in the USA, wheeled out to liven up the political scene from time to time with nonsensical and pastiche (one hopes) displays of sheer and utter ignorance, then it is worrying.

525 elizajane  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:05:16pm

re: #521 Fozzie Bear

Even the Russians can't stand Sarah Palin.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you beat me to it!

526 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:06:04pm

That's some seriously funny stuff. Apparently Palin's charm doesn't translate into Russian very well. ROFL

527 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:06:30pm

this is the music informing my comments tonight:

528 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:06:57pm

re: #513 Killgore Trout

They can see her house.

Yo KT. Check your link titled, Julian Assange and the Computer Conspiracy; “To destroy this invisible government”.

Some weird characters in there so it doesn't work.

529 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:07:03pm

re: #514 sizzleRI

Thats great that the military needs to attend events you go to. I respect that. But, for me, this is my chance to serve openly. So please excuse me if I do not see the vote as an irritation that needs to be pulled off and dealt with. It is a civil rights issue. Please understand that.

Sorry, but I've got bills to pay. The bill can't pass with DADT repeal attached, so it must be removed. End story.

530 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:07:21pm

re: #525 elizajane

you beat me to it!

actually palamino did.

531 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:07:52pm

re: #528 Gus 802

Yo KT. Check your link titled, Julian Assange and the Computer Conspiracy; “To destroy this invisible government”.

Some weird characters in there so it doesn't work.

KT's posts are full of weird and wonderful characters today. Best posting day ever.

532 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:08:35pm

re: #522 reine.de.tout

If y'all haven't seen this, Killgore's page on Assange is very very good.

I don't know if it's very good but I find it quite interesting. He's nutty but not quite insane. It's tough to understand people on the fringes and people get caught up on left vs right dichotomies. I find Assange and his philosophies more interesting than the boring shit he leaks.

533 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:08:38pm

[Link: www.tinadupuy.com...]

This is the next post from the gal who put together the enemies list. I cracked up that The Family Guy/Seth McFarland is listed.

Here's the quote from the Down Syndrome girl who played the part:


Following Palin’s determination of what satire is, the actress Andrea Fay Friedman who played the character with Down Syndrome – who also fittingly has Down Syndrome – made a statement to the press: “I guess former Governor Palin does not have a sense of humor…My parents raised me to have a sense of humor and to live a normal life. My mother did not carry me around under her arm like a loaf of French bread the way former Governor Palin carries her son Trig around looking for sympathy and votes.”

Oh SNAP. I'm sure Sr. Sarah called Andrea Friedman to have a chat.....

534 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:08:46pm

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but no. If you're not here legally, you don't get such benefits. Even if its not your fault.

That's a hard stance dude.

535 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:09:16pm

re: #514 sizzleRI

Thats great that the military needs to attend events you go to. I respect that. But, for me, this is my chance to serve openly. So please excuse me if I do not see the vote as an irritation that needs to be pulled off and dealt with. It is a civil rights issue. Please understand that.

Just like 1948. At that time there were a great many whites who didn't want integration anywhere, not the military or schools, etc. But the military survived intact, and the hand wringing proved to be an overreaction.

Gays in the military should be even less disruptive. For one thing, there will be fewer gays than there were blacks. And it's a lot easier for a gay person to be discreet about their sexual orientation than it is for a black person to be discreet about their race. Even a clear majority of republicans want DADT repealed.

536 yasharki  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:09:42pm

re: #521 Fozzie Bear

I wouldn't get all excited about articles posted on websites affiliated with pravda.ru. My impression is it's something like the National Enquirer, .ru style.

537 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:10:29pm

re: #528 Gus 802

Yo KT. Check your link titled, Julian Assange and the Computer Conspiracy; “To destroy this invisible government”.

Some weird characters in there so it doesn't work.

Thanks for the heads up but it all looks ok on my end. What are you seeing?

538 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:10:58pm

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but I've got bills to pay. The bill can't pass with DADT repeal attached, so it must be removed. End story.

How long do gay men and women who serve this country have to wait for common decency? There will always be bills to pay, but honoring our soldier is pretty damn important too.

539 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:05pm

re: #534 Mr Pancakes

That's a hard stance dude.

The difference between conservatives and progressives.

Hard ass stances against PEOPLE. Fellow Americans.

It blows my mind.

540 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:19pm

re: #536 yasharki

I wouldn't get all excited about articles posted on websites affiliated with pravda.ru. My impression is it's something like the National Enquirer, .ru style.

It don't matter... if the article is making fun of Sarah Palin, everyone gets a hard on... see... I just got one even typing her name.

541 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:23pm

re: #537 Killgore Trout

Thanks for the heads up but it all looks ok on my end. What are you seeing?

It's coming up with strange characters. I think it's the quotes in the link. So I get the Error 404 - Not Found.

542 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:50pm

re: #534 Mr Pancakes

That's a hard stance dude.

I know, and I do favor a path to legal residency for such people. But until that can be worked out, I don't favor extending benefits to them.

543 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:11:53pm

re: #536 yasharki

I wouldn't get all excited about articles posted on websites affiliated with pravda.ru. My impression is it's something like the National Enquirer, .ru style.

That's precisely the point. Even a rag like Moscow Today can see what a horribly unqualified joke Sarah Palin really is.

544 yasharki  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:12:04pm

re: #521 Fozzie Bear

Besides, it's written by someone called "Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey", how does he qualify for "The Russians"?

545 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:12:12pm

re: #536 yasharki

I wouldn't get all excited about articles posted on websites affiliated with pravda.ru. My impression is it's something like the National Enquirer, .ru style.

Clearly, it's not exactly a hard piece.

But it's funny.

546 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:12:33pm

re: #505 Fozzie Bear

Well, how much is it worth to you to have less poor and uneducated people around you?

It won't affect the people of my generation. The question is really about my kids generation. And on and on. It's also about moral costs, if you aren't here legally, am I morally obligated to pay for your childs education? Its a no win dilemma, save for the fact, that since I am here, and earning a first world paycheck, maybe I ought to help you & your kids out? It just shouldn't be REQUIRED. It should be voluntary, IMHO.

547 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:12:50pm

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

I know I may be too new here, but I have read for over a year. I know how awesome you can been DF, but this is so important. You claim to love the military, almost every post you make, and respect it. But when I tell you that I want to serve, that I have friends serving or waiting to, and that DADT is a cruel and immoral obstacle, you don't care. How can you not care?

548 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:13:03pm

This is what I get:

[Link: zunguzungu.wordpress.com...]

That's from a copy link.

549 Aye Pod  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:13:07pm

re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist

About anything interesting?

What happened:

Some attention seeking twit demonstrates that hiding under a false nick and posting what appears to be a sane page gets a response appropriate for a sane page here on LGF. Except - and here's the 'clever' bit - he is not a sane poster - he is some extremist wingnut fellating idiot who posts on stalker sites. This proves, er...something.

Really says a lot about LGF the twit in question and his desperate quest for approval from some of the most woefully butthurt right wing scumbags on the internet. Really, a sad, sad specimen.

550 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:13:08pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I don't know if it's very good but I find it quite interesting. He's nutty but not quite insane. It's tough to understand people on the fringes and people get caught up on left vs right dichotomies. I find Assange and his philosophies more interesting than the boring shit he leaks.

His mom is apparently very upset that he's being "hunted down".

She also says:

"He's my son and I love him and obviously I don't want him hunted down and jailed. I'm reacting as any mother would. I'm distressed," she told Australian radio. "A lot of stuff that's written about me and Julian is untrue.

I'm thinking there's a story there that I'd love to know more about.

551 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:14:01pm

re: #549 Jimmah

What happened:

Some attention seeking twit demonstrates that hiding under a false nick and posting what appears to be a sane page gets a response appropriate for a sane page here on LGF. Except - and here's the 'clever' bit - he is not a sane poster - he is some extremist wingnut fellating idiot who posts on stalker sites. This proves, er...something.

Really says a lot about LGF the twit in question and his desperate quest for approval from some of the most woefully butthurt right wing scumbags on the internet. Really, a sad, sad specimen.

Yeah but he got flounced in the butt end.

552 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:14:13pm

re: #544 yasharki

Besides, it's written by someone called "Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey", how does he qualify for "The Russians"?

Moscow Today is a Russian publication. At least that's what I've been told. Any reason to believe otherwise?

553 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:15:01pm

re: #493 Floral Giraffe

That doesn't really answer my question. Am I fucking up my wording somehow?

554 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:15:15pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist

How long do gay men and women who serve this country have to wait for common decency? There will always be bills to pay, but honoring our soldier is pretty damn important too.

Till they get 60 votes in the Senate or till the courts rule. It sucks but there it is. If keeping the bills attached was likely to do anything, I might feel differently. But the GOP isn't going to budge, and so continuing to hold funding hostage to a vote that will not happen is foolish.

555 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:15:54pm

re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, why ARE so many Middle Eastern language specialists gay? Does anyone know?

I'm not sure that they disproportionately are, it may have just been one desperately needed specialty that got hit really hard by the policy. Could also be that gay middle eastern americans and their partners were just disproportionately prone to volunteer for other reasons, such as generally having fewer dependents, or felt a call to duty based on a grasp of comparative societal repression, and brought their language skills with them.

556 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:15:55pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist

I have respected you for so long as I read this sight. And this quote is why. Thank you.

557 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:15:55pm

re: #550 reine.de.tout

His mom is apparently very upset that he's being "hunted down".

She also says:

I'm thinking there's a story there that I'd love to know more about.

I know he's the story of the hour, but I have to say, I find this guy incredibly uninteresting.

558 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:16:10pm

re: #539 Stanley Sea

The difference between conservatives and progressives.

Hard ass stances against PEOPLE. Fellow Americans.

It blows my mind.

I thought DF was talking about those here illegally, not US citizens?

At any rate - c'mon now.

I think most people ultimately want the best outcome for everyone; but we just have different ideas about how to go about it.

559 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:16:33pm

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

It don't matter... if the article is making fun of Sarah Palin, everyone gets a hard on... see... I just got one even typing her name.

she's one hell of a gmilf.

560 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:16:36pm

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

Till they get 60 votes in the Senate or till the courts rule. It sucks but there it is. If keeping the bills attached was likely to do anything, I might feel differently. But the GOP isn't going to budge, and so continuing to hold funding hostage to a vote that will not happen is foolish.

I see. Only the right should be allowed to take a stand. Who cares who has the majority, right?

561 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:17:36pm

re: #544 yasharki

Besides, it's written by someone called "Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey", how does he qualify for "The Russians"?

He's practically a Russian; he's been writing for Pravda since 1976.

562 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:18:21pm

re: #547 sizzleRI

I know I may be too new here, but I have read for over a year. I know how awesome you can been DF, but this is so important. You claim to love the military, almost every post you make, and respect it. But when I tell you that I want to serve, that I have friends serving or waiting to, and that DADT is a cruel and immoral obstacle, you don't care. How can you not care?

I need the money, its just that simple. I can't wait for the bill to be under continuing resolution for another 3-6 months, I'll go bankrupt. It's a narrow position based on direct self-interest.

563 yasharki  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:18:41pm

re: #552 palomino

Moscow Today is a Russian publication. At least that's what I've been told. Any reason to believe otherwise?

Where did "Moscow Times" come from?

564 yasharki  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:19:16pm

re: #563 yasharki

I meant "Moscow Today"

565 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:19:21pm

re: #553 Slumbering Behemoth

That doesn't really answer my question. Am I fucking up my wording somehow?

No, I'm tired, today was another long hard day. Will try again tomorrow.
*smooch*

566 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:19:38pm

re: #541 Gus 802

It's coming up with strange characters. I think it's the quotes in the link. So I get the Error 404 - Not Found.

Ah, ok. For some reason I can't directly link to the essay. I've changed it to a link via boing boing. It takes and extra click which is very annoying but at least it works. Thanks again for the heads up.

567 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:19:39pm

re: #563 yasharki

Where did "Moscow Times" come from?

It's an aggregator for Russian news based in the US. The original article is here.

568 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:19:44pm

re: #560 Fozzie Bear

I see. Only the right should be allowed to take a stand. Who cares who has the majority, right?

This isn't about truth, my position is based on my need for money.

569 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:20:26pm

re: #563 yasharki

Where did "Moscow Times" come from?

Don't know. Is the answer interesting?

570 Mocking Jay  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:20:37pm

re: #562 Dark_Falcon

I need the money, its just that simple. I can't wait for the bill to be under continuing resolution for another 3-6 months, I'll go bankrupt. It's a narrow position based on direct self-interest.

Not to put too fine a point on it, Df, but... why the fuck should I give a shit about you then?

571 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:20:41pm

re: #568 Dark_Falcon

This isn't about truth, my position is based on my need for money.

How, exactly, does your livelyhood depend on gay people not being allowed in the military? How can that even begin to make sense?

572 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:20:46pm

re: #566 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. For some reason I can't directly link to the essay. I've changed it to a link via boing boing. It takes and extra click which is very annoying but at least it works. Thanks again for the heads up.

YW. Yeah, saw the Boing Boing link. For some strange reason it was even messed up using Tinyurl. This works.

573 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:21:18pm

re: #547 sizzleRI

I am not sure how the military has got away with formalized discrimination all these years in the first place. It is astonishing that legislation is needed to end something I was pretty sure was already an illegal policy. Compliance with non-discrimination laws should be a given, and if I were POTUS, I would simply issue an Executive Order requiring that the military comply with all applicable non-discrimination provisions. If the military leadership asked for an exemption for front line units or special forces subject to further review (on a deadline), I would grant that. Otherwise, this is just a typical political football clusterfuck much the same as equal marriage rights.

574 CarleeCork  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:21:30pm

re: #7 Dreggas

why, exactly, should it be noted that the dude is a Democrat? He's a crazy from Kentucky. Hell, there are a lot of southern "Democrats" that believe just as he does.


Instead of voter ID, I would prefer intelligence testing for government representatives.

WTF???

575 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:22:19pm

re: #570 JasonA

Not to put too fine a point on it, Df, but... why the fuck should I give a shit about you then?

I don't expect you to.

576 yasharki  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:23pm

re: #561 jaunte

He's practically a Russian; he's been writing for Pravda since 1976.

Yeah, and I'm a native American who's been writing for the New York Times since 1905.

577 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:30pm

"We're sorry, Mr. Falcon, but soldiers are fucking each other and not even being secretive about it, so we can't afford to pay you."

Please make this make sense.

578 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:53pm

re: #576 yasharki

You're looking remarkably spry, sir.

579 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:23:58pm

re: #576 yasharki

Yeah, and I'm a native American who's been writing for the New York Times since 1905.

Man, you must be really old.

580 Aye Pod  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:24:36pm

re: #571 Fozzie Bear

How, exactly, does your livelyhood depend on gay people not being allowed in the military? How can that even begin to make sense?

I was wondering about that myself. Are we in "Gays in the Military Will Wreck The Economy" territory now or what?

581 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:25:00pm

re: #577 Fozzie Bear

"We're sorry, Mr. Falcon, but soldiers are fucking each other and not even being secretive about it, so we can't afford to pay you."

Please make this make sense.

The whole process of appending unrelated amendments to spending bills has to be reviewed. One of the most common vehicles of abuse by an already compulsively abusive Senate.

582 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:25:12pm

re: #562 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, that is it? I hate to do the ultimate civil rights question, but it is the right one: if it is 1948 and African-Americans? Would your bottom line be as important?

Please remember, I have friends serving now who fear that their income source, as will as their whole career and reputation will always be on the edge as long as DADT exists.

583 Mocking Jay  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:25:21pm

re: #577 Fozzie Bear

"We're sorry, Mr. Falcon, but soldiers are fucking each other and not even being secretive about it, so we can't afford to pay you."

Please make this make sense.

He wants the bill to pass so he can get money. With the DADT attached it might fail. He wants to let the Republicans have their way, basically. There will be no negotiations.

584 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:25:24pm

re: #561 jaunte

He's practically a Russian; he's been writing for Pravda since 1976.

Jaysus. That's a long time to have been writing for Pravda.

585 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:27:07pm

re: #571 Fozzie Bear

How, exactly, does your livelyhood depend on gay people not being allowed in the military? How can that even begin to make sense?

I sell seats at events that defense oriented. Right now, the military is under a Continuing Resolution, which is keeping a number of organizations within the military from signing up to participate in these events. If they do not sign up, I do not get commissions. And my base salary is not enough to pay my bills. I need the military to get its budget passed so I can make some money (and because these events have real value for the government and military people who attend them, because if they did not provide that value I would not sell them). Is that clearer for you?

586 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:27:21pm

re: #584 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry, I got that wrong: the article I found that in says he's been writing for 'the Russian media' since 1976, not necessarily Pravda:
[Link: network.nationalpost.com...]

587 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:27:21pm

re: #562 Dark_Falcon

I need the money, its just that simple. I can't wait for the bill to be under continuing resolution for another 3-6 months, I'll go bankrupt. It's a narrow position based on direct self-interest.

I guess what bothers me is that you don't seem to feel any anger or contempt for people who will go to such lengths to show pointless contempt for people. For Americans in the armed forces, what's more.

I think you'd be pissed off if the Democrats were doing something to hurt straight soldiers, and using fiscal pressure to do it.

I think you should be pissed off now.

588 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:27:28pm

re: #573 imp_62

Ummm, sexual orientation is not protected.

589 Mocking Jay  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:28:16pm

Why does DF hate our (gay) troops?

590 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:28:58pm

re: #582 sizzleRI

Honestly, that is it? I hate to do the ultimate civil rights question, but it is the right one: if it is 1948 and African-Americans? Would your bottom line be as important?

Please remember, I have friends serving now who fear that their income source, as will as their whole career and reputation will always be on the edge as long as DADT exists.

I updinged the post, but I don't think the conversation is going anywhere. DF is being honest about his situation. As Tip O'Neill said, al politics is local. ANd nothing is more local than your wallet and the pressure of taking care of your family. Abstract comes second to concrete.

591 calochortus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:29:35pm

I'm getting tired and starting to misread posts. Some of them it improves, some not so much ;-)

G'night all.

592 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:29:44pm

re: #585 Dark_Falcon

Why doesn't it make sense for Republicans to just allow gays to serve openly? Same result for you.

593 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:29:50pm

re: #585 Dark_Falcon

I sell seats at events that defense oriented. Right now, the military is under a Continuing Resolution, which is keeping a number of organizations within the military from signing up to participate in these events. If they do not sign up, I do not get commissions. And my base salary is not enough to pay my bills. I need the military to get its budget passed so I can make some money (and because these events have real value for the government and military people who attend them, because if they did not provide that value I would not sell them). Is that clearer for you?

And you honestly believe that the GOP would block military appropriations indefinitely if the repeal of DADT were attached? Are you kidding? The democrats could hope to be so lucky.

594 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:30:28pm

re: #586 jaunte

Sorry, I got that wrong: the article I found that in says he's been writing for 'the Russian media' since 1976, not necessarily Pravda:
[Link: network.nationalpost.com...]

Still, when you consider what the Russian media was LIKE in 1976...dear Lord. Who the hell is this man?

595 sizzleRI  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:32:07pm

re: #590 imp_62

I agree. Honestly, that is all I am arguing, gay rights and gay service, those are my local interests.

596 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:32:14pm

re: #588 sizzleRI

Ummm, sexual orientation is not protected.

I did not mean to imply that it was explicitly a protected class in this case. But in employment, discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is barred in many states. I do believe that DADT could be reversed by executive fiat (POTUS is also head of the armed forces)

597 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:32:33pm

re: #495 Stanley Sea

re: #496 calochortus

'Kay. Something like that would make more sense.

598 Mocking Jay  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:34:13pm

re: #596 imp_62

I did not mean to imply that it was explicitly a protected class in this case. But in employment, discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is barred in many states. I do believe that DADT could be reversed by executive fiat (POTUS is also head of the armed forces)

But couldn't it then be reinstated the same way?

599 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:34:36pm

re: #594 SanFranciscoZionist

He seems to be annoyed with Canada: [Link: simplyjews.blogspot.com...]

600 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:34:53pm

re: #592 sizzleRI

Why doesn't it make sense for Republicans to just allow gays to serve openly? Same result for you.

I'd rather they do that, but they are not going to do that. Too much of the party base is set against it. And Mitch McConnell can't just cave in, he has to get something. My proposal is as follows:

Strip out DADT repeal, leave the DREAM Act in. The Dems get something they want, and the GOP doesn't look like it gave away the store. It's not the best thing, but its what's most likely to be doable.

601 Mocking Jay  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:36:22pm

New Dem strategy: let the Wookiee win.

602 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:36:28pm

re: #598 JasonA

But couldn't it then be reinstated the same way?

Good question; I suppose so. It would be a transitional solution until Congress gets its shit together. You gotta believe the Wingnuts will move on to some other outrageous outrage sooner or later.

603 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:37:09pm

re: #565 Floral Giraffe

No, I'm tired, today was another long hard day. Will try again tomorrow.
*smooch*

'sall good, dear. I'm not in top form today either.

Anywho, I'll give you your pick...

*smooch*
or
*spank*

... choose whichever suits your mood. ;)P

604 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:39:31pm

re: #562 Dark_Falcon

I need the money, its just that simple. I can't wait for the bill to be under continuing resolution for another 3-6 months, I'll go bankrupt. It's a narrow position based on direct self-interest.

Well, if the GOP blocks it in the House how can GOProud, Log Cabin, etc., still say they support the GOP with a straight face?

605 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:39:34pm

re: #603 Slumbering Behemoth

'sall good, dear. I'm not in top form today either.

Anywho, I'll give you your pick...

*smooch*
or
*spank*

... choose whichever suits your mood. ;)P

You forgot to close the door. It's like walking in on Mommy and Daddy during date night: "I wanna glass of wa - oops. Never mind".

606 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:39:41pm

Courts: Using another's SSN not a crime

Is using a forged Social Security Number -- but your own name -- to obtain employment or buy a car an identity theft crime? Lately, U.S. courts are saying it's not.

The most recent judicial body to take on the issue, the Colorado Supreme Court, ruled last month that a man who used his real name but someone else's Social Security number to obtain a car loan was not guilty of "criminal impersonation," overturning convictions by lower courts.

That follows a ruling last year by the U.S. Supreme Court that a Mexican man who gave a false SSN to get a job at an Illinois steel plant could not be convicted under federal identity theft laws because he did not knowingly use another person's identifying number. The ruling overturned an opinion by a federal appeals court in St. Louis -- and contradicted earlier findings by circuit courts in the Southeast, upper Midwest and the Gulf states.

Identity theft criminals must be very happy about this.

607 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:40:46pm

re: #587 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess what bothers me is that you don't seem to feel any anger or contempt for people who will go to such lengths to show pointless contempt for people. For Americans in the armed forces, what's more.

I think you'd be pissed off if the Democrats were doing something to hurt straight soldiers, and using fiscal pressure to do it.

I think you should be pissed off now.

We are talking to someone who doesn't really care if our soldiers end up getting tortured due to the policies he supports, who explicitly says he won't conddemn others for using it. It's always been about what D_F needs right now, whether it's information of money, the clear cut absolute disregard and open contempt for actual serving troops is nothing short of sociopathic.

608 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:41:44pm

re: #601 JasonA

RACIST!!!
/

Curse you Lucas!!!

609 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:42:31pm

re: #607 goddamnedfrank

We are talking to someone who doesn't really care if our soldiers end up getting tortured due to the policies he supports, who explicitly says he won't conddemn others for using it. It's always been about what D_F needs right now, whether it's information of money, the clear cut absolute disregard and open contempt for actual serving troops is nothing short of sociopathic.

Whoa. Let's not start with 'sociopathic' this early in the evening.

610 shutdown  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:43:03pm

getting late here in the east. night all.

611 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:43:47pm

re: #605 imp_62

You forgot to close the door.

Heh, maybe I didn't forget.
/:P

612 yasharki  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:44:47pm

re: #594 SanFranciscoZionist

Still, when you consider what the Russian media was LIKE in 1976...dear Lord. Who the hell is this man?

I dunno who this guy is, but comments jaunte dug up, together with the article Fozzie posted clearly show that we (at least I) are spending too much time discussing him.

613 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:46:29pm

re: #609 SanFranciscoZionist

I suspect there is a "crush" involved. Not sure, though.
/

614 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:47:03pm

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but I've got bills to pay. The bill can't pass with DADT repeal attached, so it must be removed. End story.

Jebus Cripes Dark, STEP UP YOUR GAME!

No, sad reflection on the state of the GOP when they vote against something the majority of Republicans are willling to support in polls?

No bemoaning the way that DADT treats certain people like second class citizens?

If there is such a thing as a compassionate conservative, now might be the time to prove it....

615 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:48:21pm

re: #609 SanFranciscoZionist

Whoa. Let's not start with 'sociopathic' this early in the evening.

Thanks. I do care, but I can't just keep waiting and this could go on for months. And it's not just me, it's my whole team and everyone else who whose services cannot be bought till this CR is lifted.

616 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:48:33pm

re: #609 SanFranciscoZionist

Whoa. Let's not start with 'sociopathic' this early in the evening.

Lemme add to that. This is a hot topic for me. Gay rights is high in my political priority list. In addition, I like Dark, and I disagree with about 95% of his stated social views, but we have always been able to discuss things openly and honestly.

I enjoy being able to do that.

617 jaunte  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:49:16pm

It is beyond past time for our country to drop the second class citizen stuff.

618 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:49:24pm

re: #615 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. I do care, but I can't just keep waiting and this could go on for months. And it's not just me, it's my whole team and everyone else who whose services cannot be bought till this CR is lifted.

Yeah, but that's exactly what they want. And it's cold-blooded as hell.

619 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:49:44pm

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

Till they get 60 votes in the Senate or till the courts rule. It sucks but there it is. If keeping the bills attached was likely to do anything, I might feel differently. But the GOP isn't going to budge, and so continuing to hold funding hostage to a vote that will not happen is foolish.

So you admit the modern elected wing of the GOP cares more about what they see as a moral issue than what the top brass or the soldiers on the ground have to say when it comes to military matters?

Do you realize that this is not a good state of affairs, at all?

620 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:49:46pm

re: #614 jamesfirecat

If there is such a thing as a compassionate conservative, now might be the time to prove it...

Oxymoron much?

621 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:50:46pm

And to everyone who's annoyed with me, please come up with something the Democrats can give Republicans so that the GOP doesn't look like its giving away the store after it just won an election. Half of the problem here is the political posturing from all sides that has made compromise impossible.

622 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:51:40pm

re: #562 Dark_Falcon

I need the money, its just that simple. I can't wait for the bill to be under continuing resolution for another 3-6 months, I'll go bankrupt. It's a narrow position based on direct self-interest.

Dark, could you at least bemoan those whose rights must be trampled for the sake of your financial security? Otherwise you come off like the "hero" in an Ayn Rand "Novel"....

623 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:52:38pm

re: #621 Dark_Falcon

And to everyone who's annoyed with me, please come up with something the Democrats can give Republicans so that the GOP doesn't look like its giving away the store after it just won an election. Half of the problem here is the political posturing from all sides that has made compromise impossible.

How about we give you the tax break for people making more tan 250 K?

Its a perfect compromise everybody goes home unhappy!

624 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:52:45pm

BTW, has anyone seen Negativ? Is he OK? He went very nutty last night, for no reason I understood.

625 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:53:51pm

re: #614 jamesfirecat

re: #620 laZardo

Um, HELLOOO!!!

I haven't exactly been a wallflower here, have I?

626 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:54:38pm

re: #624 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, has anyone seen Negativ? Is he OK? He went very nutty last night, for no reason I understood.

He was just too negative last night.

627 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:54:41pm

re: #622 jamesfirecat

Dark, could you at least bemoan those whose rights must be trampled for the sake of your financial security? Otherwise you come off like the "hero" in an Ayn Rand "Novel"...

Point taken, but I'm not John Gault. I want a compromise. But there aren't any on the table.

628 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:55:15pm

re: #600 Dark_Falcon

I'd rather they do that, but they are not going to do that. Too much of the party base is set against it. And Mitch McConnell can't just cave in, he has to get something. My proposal is as follows:

Strip out DADT repeal, leave the DREAM Act in. The Dems get something they want, and the GOP doesn't look like it gave away the store. It's not the best thing, but its what's most likely to be doable.

And what about the Gay service members????????

We honor our troops, remember?

629 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:55:25pm

re: #621 Dark_Falcon

Compromise is kinda impossible, given the posturing. It's going to be a REALLY ugly lame duck session.

630 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:56:00pm

re: #623 jamesfirecat

How about we give you the tax break for people making more tan 250 K?

Its a perfect compromise everybody goes home unhappy!

I'd be happy with making the tax cuts permanent in exchange for DADT repeal.

631 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:56:27pm

re: #604 Gus 802

Well, if the GOP blocks it in the House how can GOProud, Log Cabin, etc., still say they support the GOP with a straight face?

Good question. GOProud is persona non grata right now.

632 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:56:47pm

re: #625 Slumbering Behemoth

I've never known you as religious (creationist, anti-AGW etc.) or particularly (seriously) bigoted. So no, you don't count.

633 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:57:17pm

re: #624 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, has anyone seen Negativ? Is he OK? He went very nutty last night, for no reason I understood.

I still think he's a stalker in hiding, after the way he / she / it behaved last night. That was something to behold.

634 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:57:47pm

re: #621 Dark_Falcon

And to everyone who's annoyed with me, please come up with something the Democrats can give Republicans so that the GOP doesn't look like its giving away the store after it just won an election. Half of the problem here is the political posturing from all sides that has made compromise impossible.

And that's the problem; it shouldn't be a problem. But here we are.

635 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:57:50pm

re: #627 Dark_Falcon

Point taken, but I'm not John Gault. I want a compromise. But there aren't any on the table.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

Dark even the majority of Republicans at this point want DADT to get repealed....

So I feel really bad that you have to belong to a party with a "base" like the Republicans now have.

And if nothing else it would have been nice if you had sprinkled your realpolitik with a little examination of the far reaching effects of what you are currently supporting.

As for compromise how do you feel about my everyone gets a tax cut everyone can serve idea?

636 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:58:01pm

Christmas Song by Sleeves


namaste, y'all
637 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:58:29pm

LOL.
YOU? Wallflower.
I think not.
You do still need a dance partner, however...
Look over there >>>

638 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:58:40pm

re: #599 jaunte

He seems to be annoyed with Canada: [Link: simplyjews.blogspot.com...]

Who isn't?
/

639 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:58:41pm

re: #628 Stanley Sea

And what about the Gay service members???

We honor our troops, remember?

I was trying to propose something that can pass the Senate. It was a case of doing the best you can within the limits of the possible. By giving each party something and making them each give up something, you create a atmosphere where they can drop the posturing and both claim a partial victory.

640 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 9:59:01pm

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

I'd be happy with making the tax cuts permanent in exchange for DADT repeal.

Permanent?

Well fine.

They'll be "permanent" until they are raised but won't naturally expire. Deal?

641 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:00:10pm

re: #629 Floral Giraffe

Compromise is kinda impossible, given the posturing. It's going to be a REALLY ugly lame duck session.

It's all rigged!

642 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:00:38pm

re: #616 SanFranciscoZionist

Lemme add to that. This is a hot topic for me. Gay rights is high in my political priority list. In addition, I like Dark, and I disagree with about 95% of his stated social views, but we have always been able to discuss things openly and honestly.

I enjoy being able to do that.

And, I for one, appreciate your civility, and stand in awe of you knowledge.
HOO RAH!

643 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:01:19pm

re: #642 Floral Giraffe

And, I for one, appreciate your civility, and stand in awe of you knowledge.
HOO RAH!

*Hits FG with a chair WWF style*

Civility!

/

644 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:01:34pm

re: #618 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, but that's exactly what they want. And it's cold-blooded as hell.

Cold blooded me first capitalism. Ugh.

That's the difference, you know.

645 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:01:35pm

re: #642 Floral Giraffe

And, I for one, appreciate your civility, and stand in awe of you knowledge.
HOO RAH!

I'm ridiculously flattered.

646 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:03:38pm

re: #640 jamesfirecat

Permanent?

Well fine.

They'll be "permanent" until they are raised but won't naturally expire. Deal?

The whole idea of these cuts being permanent is a fantasy. The adults in govt. (the members of the debt commission, for example) are nearly unanimous that taxes will have to be raised at some point if the deficit is to ever be tamed.

647 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:03:57pm

re: #639 Dark_Falcon

I was trying to propose something that can pass the Senate. It was a case of doing the best you can within the limits of the possible. By giving each party something and making them each give up something, you create a atmosphere where they can drop the posturing and both claim a partial victory.

I get where you are coming from. I disagree.

The better good. Remember that term? Strive high, good things will come.

648 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:04:23pm

re: #632 laZardo

I've never known you as religious (creationist, anti-AGW etc.) or particularly (seriously) bigoted. So no, you don't count.

No sarc tag there earns a heart felt "fuck you". I don't have to be any of those things to be a conservative leaning individual. Comments like yours there bear little difference from the those who wish to purge so called RINO's from their midst.

"Look inside
Look inside your tiny mind
Then look a bit harder"

:sung while dancing about with middle fingers flung akimbo:

649 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:04:59pm

Ha! What a joke.

Tulowitzki Guaranteed $157.75M By Rockies

The sides agreed Tuesday to a new contract that pays Tulowitzki an additional $132 million over seven seasons through 2020, a deal that means Colorado has guaranteed the All-Star shortstop $157.75 million in the next decade.

"I'm really lucky," Tulowitzki said. "I can't wait to be here my entire career."

Fucking "sports". Stupid Rockies spending all that money for one player.

650 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:05:10pm

re: #643 Varek Raith

*Hits FG with a chair WWF style*

Civility!

/

Breaks chair in an UGLY fashion over VR's head,. No helmet. He freaking hurts.
All is good.
//
Doesn't REALLY want to hurt a fellow lizard. Just likes to rumble, a bit.

651 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:05:39pm

re: #640 jamesfirecat

Permanent?

Well fine.

They'll be "permanent" until they are raised but won't naturally expire. Deal?

Why the hell were the Bush tax cuts voted on, with an EXPIRATION DATE? And now the Republican's are complaining?

Expiration date for a fucking reason people. The deficit, remember?

gah

652 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:05:51pm

And the good news is that when the Defense appropriations bill passes, things will likely ease somewhat for me. I also finally have some deals coming in this week.


I know I've been worrying a lot here tonight, but I can't worry at work and i needed to get it out of my system.

653 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:05:51pm

re: #650 Floral Giraffe

Breaks chair in an UGLY fashion over VR's head,. No helmet. He freaking hurts.
All is good.
//
Doesn't REALLY want to hurt a fellow lizard. Just likes to rumble, a bit.

I'm invincible.
Bring it on!

654 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:07:29pm

re: #621 Dark_Falcon

And to everyone who's annoyed with me, please come up with something the Democrats can give Republicans so that the GOP doesn't look like its giving away the store after it just won an election. Half of the problem here is the political posturing from all sides that has made compromise impossible.

And...that is the BS of the whole thing.

It's not a fucking football game when you are dealing with people's lives. Sad as hell.

655 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:07:37pm

re: #652 Dark_Falcon

And the good news is that when the Defense appropriations bill passes, things will likely ease somewhat for me. I also finally have some deals coming in this week.

I know I've been worrying a lot here tonight, but I can't worry at work and i needed to get it out of my system.

I need to go to bed also.

But Dark, take this as a red flag for the state of your party, that the Socons aren't just setting your social agenda anymore, they now seem to direct your party's relationship with the military.

How can the GOP remain strong on defense or support the military if what the military has to say on issues is only a secondary concern for them?

656 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:07:56pm

re: #645 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm ridiculously flattered.

Nah, you just say "thank you to compliments" is what I was taught.
You're awesome. Might try to meet up in Feb. for the big flower show.
Buy you a glass of wine. Or something.

657 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:08:11pm

re: #652 Dark_Falcon

And the good news is that when the Defense appropriations bill passes, things will likely ease somewhat for me. I also finally have some deals coming in this week.

I know I've been worrying a lot here tonight, but I can't worry at work and i needed to get it out of my system.

I get you on the worrying front, at least.

Damn, I wish the economy would pick up faster!

658 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:09:05pm

re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist

I get you on the worrying front, at least.

Damn, I wish the economy would pick up faster!

Make awesome action figures of me???

659 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:09:05pm

re: #653 Varek Raith

I'm invincible.
Bring it on!

*smooch*
Took you out in one second

660 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:09:09pm

re: #656 Floral Giraffe

Nah, you just say "thank you to compliments" is what I was taught.
You're awesome. Might try to meet up in Feb. for the big flower show.
Buy you a glass of wine. Or something.

That would be cool. Let me know.

661 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:09:18pm

Mrs Butterworth calls...... I better hit the griddle.

Goodnight all!

662 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:09:59pm

I've been out today - and I see that one of the stalkers made yet another pathetic attempt to get my attention. Daddy, daddy, look! I hate you daddy!

I don't read stalker bullshit, of course -- I just auto-delete it. So all that effort was wasted.

663 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:10:05pm

Now, a question. Why are teenage boys so obsessed with ligers?

664 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:10:49pm

re: #658 Varek Raith

Not even Smurfs want sex toys that tiny.
/D'oh!

665 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:10:49pm

re: #663 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, a question. Why are teenage boys so obsessed with ligers?

Magical powers.

666 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:11:07pm

re: #651 Stanley Sea

Why the hell were the Bush tax cuts voted on, with an EXPIRATION DATE? And now the Republican's are complaining?

Expiration date for a fucking reason people. The deficit, remember?

gah

This is the ultimate fiscal irresponsibility of the GOP. Here, in a nutshell.

667 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:11:27pm

re: #664 Slumbering Behemoth

Not even Smurfs want sex toys that tiny.
/D'oh!

HAHAHAHAHA!

668 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:11:51pm

re: #651 Stanley Sea

Why the hell were the Bush tax cuts voted on, with an EXPIRATION DATE? And now the Republican's are complaining?

Expiration date for a fucking reason people. The deficit, remember?

gah

///I think Ronald Reagan proved that deficits don't matter....

669 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:12:32pm

re: #668 jamesfirecat

///I think Ronald Reagan proved that deficits don't matter...

And we'll be greeted as liberators.

670 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:13:17pm

re: #654 Stanley Sea

And...that is the BS of the whole thing.

It's not a fucking football game when you are dealing with people's lives. Sad as hell.

Of course its BS, but that's the way things work in the Senate. It's about getting a win, not helping people. Power politics is a horrid thing, but sometimes it cannot be avoided.

671 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:13:47pm

re: #669 palomino

And we'll be greeted as liberators.

Granada! Granada!

Hey, how is that country these days?

672 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:13:58pm

re: #621 Dark_Falcon

And to everyone who's annoyed with me, please come up with something the Democrats can give Republicans so that the GOP doesn't look like its giving away the store after it just won an election. Half of the problem here is the political posturing from all sides that has made compromise impossible.

Fuck compromise. They won the election and now have an excuse to continue the obstruction that earned them their new seats. And they clearly intend to continue doing so until the public believes them enough that they'll elect whichever Tea Party bigot they can put up for President in 2012.

673 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:14:42pm

re: #662 Charles

I've been out today - and I see that one of the stalkers made yet another pathetic attempt to get my attention. Daddy, daddy, look! I hate you daddy!

I don't read stalker bullshit, of course -- I just auto-delete it. So all that effort was wasted.

At this rate, they're just one butthurt away from showing off their jigglies for a "Girls Gone Wild" video.
/

674 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:15:56pm

Later gators.
Time for an annoying 4 hour work shift.

675 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:17:15pm

re: #673 Slumbering Behemoth

At this rate, they're just one butthurt away from showing off their jigglies for a "Girls Gone Wild" video.
/

They don't show their moobs, just their asses. :D

676 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:18:34pm

re: #648 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't have to be any of those things to be a conservative leaning individual. Comments like yours there bear little difference from the those who wish to purge so called RINO's from their midst.>/blockquote>

Yeah...you should pay more attention to the years worth of articles about the right-wing here. That's your conservative leanings in action.

677 palomino  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:18:35pm

OT

The last president before Obama to inherit a war was Nixon in 1968.

The last president before Obama to inherit a recession this bad was FDR in 1932.

The last president to inherit both a war and a huge recession was...?

Point is, he picked a great time to run for president but a terrible time to actually be the president. He hasn't fixed things, but maybe they aren't really fixable, at least not short term.

678 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:18:53pm

re: #676 laZardo

And I should pay more attention to my bracketing. Whoops! :p

679 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:19:57pm

That was ChenZhen? He's really still doing this? Wow. What a freak.

Here's his real name, if anyone's interested.

[Link: www.cougardb.com...]

680 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:21:54pm

re: #679 Charles

What the fuck kind of automotive monstrosity is that.

681 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:22:19pm

I'm going to sign off for the night. Sleep well all.

682 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:23:51pm

Love ya'll. D_F, we will convert you. Just don't give up.

until tomorrow.....

683 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:24:33pm

re: #671 Stanley Sea

Granada! Granada!

Hey, how is that country these days?

Does anyone else recall a SNL skit where Reagan invades Switzerland? There's yodeling, and this insane thing about how 'a trained Swiss mercenary can spoon a man to death in under an hour'.

684 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:25:03pm

You know what will end up finally discrediting Glenn Beck? It won't be any of the crazy shit he says. It'll be when the gold bubble pops and gold prices tumble.

This is my prediction of the evening.

685 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:26:36pm

re: #676 laZardo

Yeah...you should pay more attention to the years worth of articles about the right-wing here. That's your conservative leanings in action.

You're a dumb ass. My personal conservative leanings have nothing to do with the broad brush demonizations you wish to apply to all conservatives. You would know that if you spent any time at all reading what I've posted here, or had the intellectual integrity to separate conservatives from far-right reactionaries.

686 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:28:18pm

I'm getting bored of sparring with crazed Israel-haters on Facebook.

687 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:29:33pm

re: #677 palomino

It's a hard row to hoe.

688 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:30:04pm

re: #686 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm getting bored of sparring with crazed Israel-haters on Facebook.

There's the problem. q;

689 Kragar  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:32:56pm

re: #686 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm getting bored of sparring with crazed Israel-haters on Facebook.

Where would you prefer to spar with them?

690 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:34:50pm

re: #685 Slumbering Behemoth

You're a dumb ass. My personal conservative leanings have nothing to do with the broad brush demonizations you wish to apply to all conservatives. You would know that if you spent any time at all reading what I've posted here, or had the intellectual integrity to separate conservatives from far-right reactionaries.

Considering that the unity between American conservatives and far-right reactionaries (and assorted conspiracy wackos) continues to solidify more than fall apart, I don't need to wield the so-called "broad brush" when they're practically painting themselves with it.

691 Gus  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:36:38pm

Good night.

692 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:37:09pm

Grouse all you like, bro, but the only difference between the attitude expressed in your comment below, and that of the RINO purgers in the GOP, is from which angle the demonizing is coming from.

re: #632 laZardo

I've never known you as religious (creationist, anti-AGW etc.) or particularly (seriously) bigoted. So no, you don't count.

693 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:38:04pm

By the way, I know the stalkers will go nuts now, because I posted a link to ChenZhen's real name. Please note that his name, Bret Elert, is publicly posted on the Internet -- because previously, these obsessed chuckleheads have fraudulently tried to claim that I used PayPal information to do this, and tried to get my PayPal account canceled.

My real name is also public on the Internet.

I have absolutely no feelings of guilt about outing people who stalk me and engage in the kind of pathetic psychodrama you saw today. They've been pulling this crap for years now.

694 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:39:51pm

re: #692 Slumbering Behemoth

Gather all the vermin on one boat and there's much less pain on the conscience to sink it come election day. Unless the public chooses to vote them to even higher office.

695 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:43:31pm

re: #689 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Where would you prefer to spar with them?

Thunderdome.

696 Kragar  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:45:04pm

re: #693 Charles

By the way, I know the stalkers will go nuts now, because I posted a link to ChenZhen's real name. Please note that his name, Bret Elert, is publicly posted on the Internet -- because previously, these obsessed chuckleheads have fraudulently tried to claim that I used PayPal information to do this, and tried to get my PayPal account canceled.

My real name is also public on the Internet.

I have absolutely no feelings of guilt about outing people who stalk me and engage in the kind of pathetic psychodrama you saw today. They've been pulling this crap for years now.

Stalker Logic: AHA! We have a name! Lets make his life hell, nevermind that we might find another person with the same name.

Regular people: Oh, so thats the assholes name. Oh look, kitty picture!

697 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:45:51pm

re: #695 goddamnedfrank

Thunderdome.

Not a bad idea, actually. Except that they're so passive-aggressive, it wouldn't really matter who won.

698 Kragar  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:46:00pm

re: #695 goddamnedfrank

Thunderdome.

Can't we just get beyond Thunderdome?

699 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:47:22pm

re: #698 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Can't we just get beyond Thunderdome?



Obligatory.

700 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:47:22pm

re: #698 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Can't we just get beyond Thunderdome?

We don't need another hero...

701 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:47:55pm

re: #690 laZardo

Considering that the unity between American conservatives liberals and far-right reactionaries far-left commies (and assorted conspiracy wackos) continues to solidify more than fall apart, I don't need to wield the so-called "broad brush" when they're practically painting themselves with it.

Just an example of how two can play at that game.

In my time here I have learned that there is a significant difference between a liberal (or one who leans left), and those far-left anarchists, communists, and so on.

It is with humility and gratitude that I have learned to distinguish the difference, and extend the courtesy of not broad brushing the liberals here with demonizing rhetoric.

Apparently, you have not yet learned to do the same with everyday conservatives who have nothing in common with the far right.

Stick around here, and maybe you'll learn that those of us who do not exist on the extreme do not deserve to be lumped in with the extreme.

702 Kragar  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 10:48:34pm

re: #699 laZardo


Obligatory.

Always fun when you can dust off a classic

703 laZardo  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:17:06pm

re: #701 Slumbering Behemoth

That there's more to the American left than just the commies and punk anarchists is unfortunately one of the first things I learned after noticing that the American political spectrum is calibrated to the right of everyone else's center. What we consider "mainstream" is already what the Europeans would call the "far-right."

For example there are left-wing supporters of Israel, along with those that support peaceful reconciliation between them and Palestine, AND of course the more familiar "resistance and revolution" types that the more right-wing supporters like to lump in with everyone else. They do 'mix' every now and then through other political stances, but that's not to say there aren't any distinctions.

Perhaps it's having to deal with 50 states and assorted territories spread across an entire hemisphere (compared to 15-ish in Europe), or having a hyperbolic hypochondriac media that shifted the American spectrum like it did. It still doesn't make it any less unconscionable to have neo-fascists and backwards religious fundamentalists passing as acceptable to the public. Fortunately for American conservatives, they have the resources and skills to market themselves as such.

And they've done it so successfully over the last few decades that as Irenicum remarked, "Even Ike would be a hardcore Marxist." Conservatives in the United States are hard at work at erasing these distinctions, and they all claim it's good for America. It may turn out to be a self-destructive process in the end, but if it ends up destroying them at least for the next few terms of office, that's fine with the rest of us.

704 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Nov 30, 2010 11:56:02pm

re: #703 laZardo

You squander many words which do little or nothing to address the points I have presented to you in response to your broad brush demonizing.

Not surprising, though, as you and I have done this dance before. It seems there is nothing I can do to dissuade you from echoing the meme that all conservatives = evil, far right, racist, christofascists.

Like I intimated in my previous post, stick around here long enough and you may well learn your prejudices are false.

705 laZardo  Wed, Dec 1, 2010 12:16:10am

re: #704 Slumbering Behemoth

You asserted in time that I would see that prejudice as false. I just explained why I find that these so-called "prejudices" are actually not only justified but reinforced with every article about the right wing posted here.

Bad craziness is not unique to one side of the political spectrum. But in America, this "bad craziness" is fast becoming the norm (if it isn't already) for conservatives where liberals have at least tried to push it away to their own extremes.

706 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 1, 2010 12:37:38am

re: #705 laZardo

I was talking about your broad brush prejudices against conservative minded people in general, not the prejudices of far-right reactionaries. And in as much, trying to "pull you up" on the rather singular minded approach you have of demonizing conservatives by lumping them all into one "evil" group.

I like you, Laz, but I don't like the way you shit on me thusly...

re: #632 laZardo

I've never known you as religious (creationist, anti-AGW etc.) or particularly (seriously) bigoted. So no, you don't count.

... when I express, and often have expressed, that I am a conservative leaning Lizard who does not countenance such things.

707 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Dec 1, 2010 5:19:17am

re: #3 Fozzie Bear

the idea that things happen for a reason, as opposed to just happening because other things happened, and that's just what happened

Also known as the Principle of sufficient reason. :)


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