Tony Perkins of the extreme fundamentalist group Family Research Council is outraged that the Southern Poverty Law Center has listed the FRC as an anti-gay hate group. Here he is seething and whining about it on Fox News, claiming he’s not anti-gay at the same time as he promotes bogus “research” that homosexual behavior is harmful.
1 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:06:57am |
A lot of heterosexual behavior seems harmful to me, by those standards.
His point is lacking in pointyness.
| 2 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:09:29am |
And this Fox asshole just keeps nodding along.
| 5 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:12:33am |
How can the Family Research Council be a hate group? Its got family right in the name, so it must be one of the good guys, right?
///
| 7 |
JeffFX Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:14:40am |
re: #2 Obdicut
And this Fox asshole just keeps nodding along.
He’s maintaining the Fox anti-reality bubble. He pretends to be shocked that a conservative hate group is identified as a hate group, then pretends that it means all conservative groups are hate groups to trick the viewers into thinking an attack on bigots is an attack on them. Unfortunately most Fox conservatives do appear to be bigots, so maybe an attack on conservative hate groups IS an attack on them.
| 8 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:14:42am |
“…empirical, pure research…”
He wouldn’t know what that was if it bit him right in the brain.
| 9 |
elizajane Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:14:43am |
re: #1 Obdicut
A lot of heterosexual behavior seems harmful to me, by those standards.
And no doubt, because Fox is always Fair and Balanced, they had a guest on making exactly that point after Perkins was finished.
//
| 10 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:14:58am |
Peer reviewed research for these guys must mean forwarding their reports to their buddies.
| 11 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:16:22am |
Up next, Tony Perkins on “Good News Today”
| 12 |
Kronocide Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:17:04am |
I want to see Perkin’s ‘peer reviewed research.’ Probably created at the Oregon Institute with 23,000 scientists agreeing ‘homosexual behavior is harmful.’
| 14 |
drool Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:18:08am |
Rachel Maddow had a nutbag form Uganda on last night that doevtails right into this. He is the sponosor of legislation (over there) to punish gays. He is tied to “The Family” over here (C street house).
| 15 |
reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:19:13am |
re: #13 Gus 802
Well Gambling is addictive….
Oh no?
Ya wanna bet?
| 16 |
JeffFX Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:20:06am |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Peer reviewed research for these guys must mean forwarding their reports to their buddies.
It’s just a different group of peers than you may accustomed to. Morons have a peer group too.
| 17 |
Gus Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:20:52am |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Peer reviewed research for these guys must mean forwarding their reports to their buddies.
It’s peer reviewed by social scientists in Uganda.
/C-Street
| 19 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:25:19am |
Drinking is like 5,000 times more dangerous than sexual activity. So does this guy want to have alcohol outlawed too?
Just how crazy is he?
| 20 |
PT Barnum Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:25:49am |
I turned down an invitation to a soiree at Santa’s house because I didn’t want to be part of the Donner Party.
It seems to me that if we’re going to hold people responsible for their lifestyle, so called Christians made a conscious decision to believe what they do, Gays didn’t choose to be gay.
| 21 |
PT Barnum Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:26:34am |
re: #19 Obdicut
Drinking is like 5,000 times more dangerous than sexual activity. So does this guy want to have alcohol outlawed too?
Just how crazy is he?
I’m sure he’d like to outlaw voting for anything other than his narrow, hateful agenda.
| 22 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:26:57am |
Just stay monogamous and your good to go, no worries!
| 23 |
PT Barnum Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:28:23am |
re: #22 Shropshire_Slasher
Just stay monogamous and your good to go, no worries!
Exactly. I think bigamy or polygamy is it’s own punishment, myself. I can’t keep one woman happy most of the time (well aside from certain quarters, wink, wink, nudge nudge) I can’t imagine trying to live with two.
| 24 |
Gus Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:30:21am |
re: #19 Obdicut
Drinking is like 5,000 times more dangerous than sexual activity. So does this guy want to have alcohol outlawed too?
Just how crazy is he?
Don’t drink; be straight even if you’re gay; get married; intercourse for procreating only; don’t get divorced; don’t gamble…
Tony Perkins Fatwah No. 9
| 25 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:30:50am |
It’s those damn liberal watchdogs, like the SPLC, that are evil, not the bigots. OKAY.
“We don’t hate gays, we just think they’re harmful.”
Dig the doublespeak, man.
| 26 |
John Vreeland Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:31:49am |
Bit cynical of him to refer to “research.” The only research these truby leavers really respect is Bible Study.
| 27 |
Sionainn Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:31:56am |
I got a robo call from these assholes yesterday. I contacted them by phone to tell me to take me off their phone list, that they had a lot of gall to phone my home with their hate speech.
| 28 |
Gus Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:32:10am |
re: #24 Gus 802
Don’t drink; be straight even if you’re gay; get married; intercourse for procreating only; don’t get divorced; don’t gamble…
Tony Perkins Fatwah No. 9
Hmm. That’s down right un-American!
/
| 29 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:32:56am |
Reminds me of the soutpark episode I watched last night, Cartman sucks.
| 30 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:34:27am |
re: #27 Sionainn
I got a robo call from these assholes yesterday. I contacted them by phone to tell me to take me off their phone list, that they had a lot of gall to phone my home with their hate speech.
Really? What did they say? Ooo it would give me great satisfaction to tell them off.
| 31 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:35:49am |
Listening to the FRC is harmful to your sanity.
What jackasses.
| 33 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:39:25am |
re: #20 PT Barnum
I turned down an invitation to a soiree at Santa’s house because I didn’t want to be part of the Donner Party.
It seems to me that if we’re going to hold people responsible for their lifestyle, so called Christians made a conscious decision to believe what they do, Gays didn’t choose to be gay.
I don’t know about all that… I know it’s a big debate, but I don’t see whether it matters if you choose or don’t choose. What’s the diff?
I had no idea about the Donner Party. And here I thought Santa had gay reindeer.
| 34 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:41:13am |
Nobody’s outraged about the Birch Society at CPAC but…..
Social Conservatives Threaten CPAC Boycott
Several socially conservative organizations have threatened to boycott one of the largest gatherings of conservative activists of the year if a group of gay Republicans is allowed to serve as a participating organization at the event.Social conservatives, including the National Organization for Marriage among others, staged a walk-out at a meeting of board members of the Conservative Political Action Conference, according to multiple board members, to protest CPAC’s decision to allow GOProud to join the event as more than just a vendor organization.
| 35 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:41:29am |
re: #32 Gus 802
Senate Republicans opposed the bill, standing by their pledge to block any legislation during the lame duck session until the chamber approves bills to extend the Bush tax cuts and fund the government.
They have the Dems by their teabags. What a wonderful group they are.
| 36 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:41:35am |
| 37 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:41:54am |
re: #35 marjoriemoon
They have themselves by the teabags, too.
| 38 |
elizajane Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:42:02am |
And in other shocking revelations, leaked e-mails demonstrate that Fox deliberately and systematically slants their news coverage! Who’d have thought?
“Fox News executives told the network’s journalists to avoid referring to the “public option” when discussing Democrats’ proposals for a government-run health insurance plan, according to internal e-mails released Thursday.”
Instead they were to call it the “government option” because polling showed this turned people against the idea.
I’m shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
Read more: politico.com
| 39 |
prairiefire Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:43:33am |
I don’t usually do violent imagery, but I would like to slap Perkins on his smug little face.
| 40 |
Gus Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:44:42am |
re: #36 Obdicut
That sucks. It was a Republican proposal originally. It was a very good bill.
Yep. Orrin Hatch. But he ended up being against it before he was for it created it.
Blech. Politicians make me sick.
| 41 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:45:15am |
OT: Bigotted hate-cult attention whores plan Mrs. Edwards funeral protests
/horn tooting
And on-topic: Wonder how long before FNC gets (deservedly) hit at a hate group? They’re certainly giving a platform to hate groups. Heck, many probably do consider them a hate group.
| 42 |
Mickey Blumental Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:46:00am |
I’m not anti-black, but I think Black behaviour is harmful. Blah blah blah.
Fuax Nuz is getting whackier by the day.
| 43 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:46:07am |
re: #38 elizajane
But why is it originally called the Public Option? I don’t know that is why I’m asking. Is it like liberals calling themselves Progressives now?
| 46 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:48:59am |
re: #38 elizajane
And in other shocking revelations, leaked e-mails demonstrate that Fox deliberately and systematically slants their news coverage! Who’d have thought?
“Fox News executives told the network’s journalists to avoid referring to the “public option” when discussing Democrats’ proposals for a government-run health insurance plan, according to internal e-mails released Thursday.”
Instead they were to call it the “government option” because polling showed this turned people against the idea.
I’m shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
Read more: [Link: www.politico.com…]
I’m curious.
If they did a focus group on if the support the military whether it’s called the “US Armed Forces” or the “Government Forces”, would I…oh, never mind.
I probably know the answer already.
| 47 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:49:14am |
re: #43 Shropshire_Slasher
Because it’s a public option. And progressive and liberal are different. Some liberals are progressives.
| 48 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:49:42am |
re: #43 Shropshire_Slasher
But why is it originally called the Public Option? I don’t know that is why I’m asking. Is it like liberals calling themselves Progressives now?
Because, like Medicaid and Medicare, it’s public, not private insurance. Is that hard to understand? Nothing at all like Progressives v Liberal.
| 49 |
Jeff In Ohio Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:50:52am |
re: #43 Shropshire_Slasher
I know. Why not just call it what it is, an optional health system for the public. And what is with Liberals calling themselves progressives? It’s like calling that gum on the bottom of your shoe candy. WTF is that all about?
| 50 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:52:19am |
re: #48 marjoriemoon
So Fox saying it is the Government Option isn’t that far-fetched then?
| 51 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:52:25am |
re: #47 Obdicut
Because it’s a public option. And progressive and liberal are different. Some liberals are progressives.
I’d argue that all liberals are progressive. The Republicans should rename themselves the Regressives.
| 52 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:53:39am |
re: #50 Shropshire_Slasher
So Fox saying it is the Government Option isn’t that far-fetched then?
You appear to be missing the point rather intentionally. Here it is again:
Instead they were to call it the “government option” because polling showed this turned people against the idea.
Get it?
| 54 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:54:40am |
re: #50 Shropshire_Slasher
So Fox saying it is the Government Option isn’t that far-fetched then?
“Government” sounds like government-controlled. Public option is government PAID, like all those PUBLIC services Republicans enjoy, but apparently all alone in the closet where no one can see them enjoying them.
If Republicans didn’t want public healthcare, they should stop leaching off the system with their disability and Medicare insurance. More for us then.
| 55 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:55:07am |
re: #50 Shropshire_Slasher
So Fox saying it is the Government Option isn’t that far-fetched then?
Uh..
Fox called it the government option because most American’s were opposed to it.
However!
The majority of American’s supported the public option.
2+2=Chicken.
| 56 |
garhighway Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:55:37am |
On a somewhat related note, this is the link to the prop 8 appellate arguments:
(Choose Perry v Schwartzenegger)
Appellate arguments are often dry, and this one has arid moments as well, but overall it is pretty interesting.
| 57 |
abbyadams Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:56:18am |
Know why homosexual behaviour is harmful? Because asshats like this guy keep preaching intolerance, and gay people, especially gay kids, get bullied.
| 58 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:00:29am |
re: #56 garhighway
On a somewhat related note, this is the link to the prop 8 appellate arguments:
[Link: www.ca9.uscourts.gov…]
(Choose Perry v Schwartzenegger)
Appellate arguments are often dry, and this one has arid moments as well, but overall it is pretty interesting.
That’s very good. I just glanced over this one (PDF).
indicating
“Since the legalization of same-sex marriage in their jurisdictions, these legislators have witnessed none of the harm to marriage and families claimed by opponents of marriage equality. They submit this brief to document the absence of any ill effects of legalizing same-sex marriage in their jurisdictions, …”
The same goes for gay adoption.
| 59 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:04:17am |
California rocks by the way. I was reading some dissing of Berkeley last night which I think is appalling. I don’t care if these people are out there, on the fringe, whatever. We should be thanking Californians for many of our freedoms because if they hadn’t pushed the envelope, it would still be closed shut for the rest of us.
| 60 |
Sionainn Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:08:39am |
re: #30 marjoriemoon
They were trying to “save marriage” or some such nonsense and acted like it was life or death, that I needed to immediately contact John Ensign. LOL. That was rich considering how highly John Ensign considers marriage.
| 61 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:08:43am |
re: #59 marjoriemoon
I’m glad Berkeley is there. That doesn’t mean I have to applaud every action they take.
Part of pushing the envelope is going too far. When they do, they can expect criticism for it.
Berkeleyites of the stripe that put forward the proposal of the sort they did don’t give a shit about being dissed.
| 62 |
BishopX Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:09:12am |
re: #59 marjoriemoon
I think the fringe is actually very important to California. As long as you have a very visible far left fringe, the more moderate progressive positions seem reasonable. My biggest regret about the demise of the American socialist movement is not that their policies are different, it’s that everything to the right of those positions seems extreme.
| 63 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:12:31am |
I also want to draw a big line between the university at Berkeley and the city of Berkeley. They are not the same.
| 64 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:14:15am |
re: #60 Sionainn
They were trying to “save marriage” or some such nonsense and acted like it was life or death, that I needed to immediately contact John Ensign. LOL. That was rich considering how highly John Ensign considers marriage.
Glad you called them back! That would have felt good to me.
Oh John Ensign! You should have done a little heavy breathing and asked him for a date. He likes to cheat on his wife.
| 65 |
elizajane Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:15:32am |
re: #59 marjoriemoon
California rocks by the way. I was reading some dissing of Berkeley last night which I think is appalling. I don’t care if these people are out there, on the fringe, whatever. We should be thanking Californians for many of our freedoms because if they hadn’t pushed the envelope, it would still be closed shut for the rest of us.
Thank you. Thanks also to Obdicut for pointing out the distinction between the city and UC Berkeley, which is much more like an ordinary (liberal) university; it’s the city that’s anomalous.
I used to live in Berkeley and the nuttiness of some of the people really drove me insane. PTA meetings could be very, very annoying, although they definitely generated humorous moments. City Council meetings must be a laugh a minute. But it is true, we absolutely need some people pulling from the far left as a small counterbalance to all those pulling from the far right.
I take the dissing of Berkeley as pretty much akin to comments about Texas from people on the left. In fact, in our household (a democratic Texan + a Berkeley prof) we are delightfully able to offload on both geographical locations.
| 66 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:17:12am |
Why would calling it a “government option” be a concern?
Next you’ll say that health insurance reform shouldn’t be called government healthcare.
Or that panels that council patients on end of life decisions shouldn’t be called “death panels” that are out to get grandma.
Or that stimulus programs directed at benefiting huge corporate finance companies shouldn’t be called socialism.
Or that we shouldn’t question whether Democrats are “real Americans.”
You libz and your political correctness.
| 68 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:19:10am |
re: #61 Obdicut
re: #62 BishopX
I posted this last night, a history of Berkeley (the city) as well as the school. I was surprised to read about their long history of activism.
Re the left fringe, this explains it for me better than I could ever say.
The mainstream of American politics is moderate-to-conservative, but there is also an important tradition of home-grown radicalism in the United States. Episodic rather than ideological, American radicalism usually appears attached to some great cause such as abolition, women’s suffrage, trade union organization or pacifism. Never dominant in these movements, the radical tradition has nevertheless profoundly affected them, and occasionally profoundly affects the society and culture as a whole. Such was the case during “The Sixties,” actually a decade stretching from about 1964 to 1974, when the issues of racial justice and the Vietnam War absorbed the nation. It was also an era of social and cultural rebellion against conformity and “the establishment.” No place was more affected by the politics and rebellions of these years than Berkeley. The city’s image as “the People’s Republic of Berzerkeley” derives from this period and probably best expresses the common popular understanding (or misunderstanding) of the experience and heritage of Berkeley in the sixties.
| 69 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:19:30am |
Sorry Tony,, you have it VERY wrong
Homosexual behaviour is NOT harmful
Reckless HUMAN behaviour regardless of race/creed/religion/sexual orientation/ (etc etc) IS
| 70 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:19:55am |
re: #67 lawhawk
GOP now filibustering the 9/11 Zadroga act until the tax package is moved. Lovely.
House Democrats Reject Tax Plan Unless Changed
How lovely.
| 71 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:20:14am |
re: #65 elizajane
Thank you. Thanks also to Obdicut for pointing out the distinction between the city and UC Berkeley, which is much more like an ordinary (liberal) university; it’s the city that’s anomalous.
I used to live in Berkeley and the nuttiness of some of the people really drove me insane. PTA meetings could be very, very annoying, although they definitely generated humorous moments. City Council meetings must be a laugh a minute. But it is true, we absolutely need some people pulling from the far left as a small counterbalance to all those pulling from the far right.
I take the dissing of Berkeley as pretty much akin to comments about Texas from people on the left. In fact, in our household (a democratic Texan + a Berkeley prof) we are delightfully able to offload on both geographical locations.
hehe great post. You must have a very interesting household indeed!
| 73 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:21:00am |
Fiscal responsibilty, Republican style…..
Republicans Block U.S. Health Aid for 9/11 Workers
Republicans have been raising concerns about how to pay for the $7.4 billion measure, while Democrats, led by Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand of New York, have argued that the nation had a moral obligation to assist those who put their lives at risk during rescue operations at ground zero.
WTF are they thinking?
| 74 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:21:25am |
re: #67 lawhawk
GOP now filibustering the 9/11 Zadroga act until the tax package is moved. Lovely.
Moral bankruptcy.
| 75 |
Sionainn Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:22:56am |
re: #64 marjoriemoon
Glad you called them back! That would have felt good to me.
I used to ignore robo and other calls like that. Not any more. If they are offensive to me and piss me off, then I’ve decided to spread the joy by making some phone calls myself.
| 76 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:23:12am |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
Fiscal responsibilty, Republican style…
Republicans Block U.S. Health Aid for 9/11 Workers
WTF are they thinking?
Ok.
Someone explain this to me.
According to the GOP,
Unemployment benefits can’t be extended unless they are paid for.
The Zardoga act can’t be passed unless it is paid for.
The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy are exempt from there “must be paid for” rhetoric.
Why?
/Rhetorical.
| 77 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:24:11am |
| 78 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:25:07am |
| 79 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:25:28am |
re: #76 Varek Raith
Ok.
Someone explain this to me.
According to the GOP,
Unemployment benefits can’t be extended unless they are paid for.
The Zardoga act can’t be passed unless it is paid for.
The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy are exempt from there “must be paid for” rhetoric.
Why?
/Rhetorical.
Because unlike the other two, tax cuts have the possibility of paying for themselves over time in different forms
But you knew that!
| 80 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:26:30am |
re: #79 sattv4u2
Because unlike the other two, tax cuts have the possibility of paying for themselves over time in different forms
But you knew that!
Actually!
factcheck.org
| 82 |
BishopX Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:26:55am |
| 83 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:26:59am |
Dutch teen arrested over cyber attacks on Visa, MasterCard
A 16-year-old boy was arrested in the Netherlands in connection with a series of cyber attacks on Visa, MasterCard and other organizations that have severed ties with WikiLeaks, Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf reported Thursday.The teenager was arrested Wednesday night in The Hague, the newspaper said, citing the national office of the Public Prosecutor. Cops have not ruled out further arrests, De Telegraaf added.
| 84 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:27:27am |
re: #77 Varek Raith
16 years old!!
Hell,, at 16 years old I was
A) popping pimples
B) trying to figure out the best way to impress one of our schools cheerleaders
C) In a constant state of repeating A and B
| 85 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:27:50am |
OT:
CHP Shutting Down I-15 North of Escondido for “Bomb House” Burn
The California Highway Patrol is shutting down Interstate 15 for for the burning of the “Bomb House” in Escondido. The closure began at 9:45 a.m.
The burn is expected to begin at approximately 10:30 a.m.
It’s going to be burned in a few minutes. I think all the news channels will be covering this one.
| 86 |
recusancy Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:28:50am |
re: #79 sattv4u2
Because unlike the other two, tax cuts have the possibility of paying for themselves over time in different forms
But you knew that!
| 87 |
BishopX Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:29:11am |
re: #83 Killgore Trout
He probably bragged about it on his facebook page.
| 88 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:30:37am |
re: #84 sattv4u2
16 years old!!
Hell,, at 16 years old I was
A) popping pimples
B) trying to figure out the best way to impress one of our schools cheerleaders
C) In a constant state of repeating A and B
Me too. Well, not the cheerleaders exactly. Not that there’s anything wrong with that :p
Even though I’m a female and not supposed to have a sex drive.
(Sorry, was reliving an old conversation when I probably shouldn’t.)
| 89 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:31:02am |
re: #80 Varek Raith
Actually!
[Link: www.factcheck.org…]
the growth spurred by capital gains tax cuts pays for about half of lost revenue over a number of years and that payroll tax cuts generate enough growth to pay for about 17 percent of what is lost.
As I stated ,,, “in different forms”
So from your own link, at least SOME of the monies are gained back
The other two bills, not so much!
| 90 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:31:08am |
re: #80 Varek Raith
Actually!
[Link: www.factcheck.org…]
And tax cuts for people at the high end of the income spectrum, particularly when the top end rates are as low as they are now, are even less likely to pay for themselves than other forms of tax cuts.
Anyone that claims to support Republican tax policy because it is the party of the “fiscal conservatives” is either ignorant of the facts (look at ratios of revenue/spending and debt/gdp under the past 60 years of Republican administrations as compared to under Democratic administrations, or, GDP growth under Repubs and Dems), lying, or just blinded by partisan reasoning.
| 92 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:32:06am |
re: #84 sattv4u2
16 years old!!
Hell,, at 16 years old I was
A) popping pimples
B) trying to figure out the best way to impress one of our schools cheerleaders
C) In a constant state of repeating A and B
I was chasing little Suzie from down the street or fishing. We didn’t have computers back then but I doubt it would have mattered. Suzie felt much better than a mouse & keyboard.
| 93 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:32:40am |
re: #86 recusancy
Again - that is lumping all tax cuts into the same category. Tax cuts for the rich are even less economically productive than tax cuts for the middle class, particularly when tax rates are where they are now.
| 94 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:33:34am |
re: #93 Talking Point Detective
sure. But what Recuansy was showing was that other things like unemployment benefits actually do pay back their costs better than tax cuts.
| 95 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:33:38am |
re: #91 SpaceJesus
Oh no! That’s just all kinds of wrong LOLL What’s up with the Lincoln thing, though?
| 96 |
recusancy Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:33:42am |
re: #93 Talking Point Detective
Again - that is lumping all tax cuts into the same category. Tax cuts for the rich are even less economically productive than tax cuts for the middle class, particularly when tax rates are where they are now.
Yup. I think it was 40 cents on dollar returned on the tax cuts for the rich.
| 98 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:34:35am |
Ah well,, nap time
Then I gotta figure an encore to last nights dinner. It was such a hit, my wife told me my son wanted some for breakfast this morning
A) , he NEVER eats/ wants breakfast
B) , it was 6:30 a.m.
C) it was Moo Goo Gia Pan
| 99 |
SpaceJesus Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:35:18am |
re: #95 marjoriemoon
I dunno, but Mr. Perkins can probably tell you
| 100 |
recusancy Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:36:15am |
Here it is:
Fiscal Economic Bang for the Buck
Tax Cuts
Non-refundable lump-sum tax rebate 1.02
Refundable lump-sum tax rebate 1.26
Temporary tax cuts
payroll tax holiday 1.29
Across the board tax cut 1.03
Accelerated depreciation 0.27
Permanent tax cuts
Extend alternative minimum tax patch 0.48
Make Bush income tax cuts permanent 0.29
Make dividend and capital gains tax cuts permanent 0.37
Cut in corporate tax rate 0.30
Spending Increases
Extending UI benefits 1.64
Temporary increase in food stamps 1.73
General aid to state governments 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending 1.59
Source: Moody’s Economy.com
| 101 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:36:43am |
re: #97 Rightwingconspirator
Homphobics on Fox make me Foxphobic.
Red, Silver, or,, well,, Red!??!!?!?
| 102 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:37:11am |
re: #89 sattv4u2
the growth spurred by capital gains tax cuts pays for about half of lost revenue over a number of years and that payroll tax cuts generate enough growth to pay for about 17 percent of what is lost.
As I stated ,,, “in different forms”
So from your own link, at least SOME of the monies are gained back
The other two bills, not so much!
The relationship between capital gains tax cuts and revenues is extremely complex.
From 1954 to 1982, there appeared to have been something of a positive correlation between the average capital gains tax rate and capital gains revenue. That is, they both tended in increase or decrease at the same time. After 1982, there appeared to be much more volatility in both the average tax rate and revenue and any obvious positive correlation disappeared. This would suggest that a more stable average tax rate might be desirable. This would lessen the need for investors to concern themselves with the timing of their stock transactions and allow them to concern themselves only with the long-term value of the investments themselves. If at any point that it is decided that the tax rate needs to be changed, it would likely be wise to phase in the change slowly.
[…]
To raise revenue over the long run, capital gains tax cuts would need to have extraordinary huge, positive effects on saving, investment, and economic growth that virtually no respected expert or institution believes they have. In fact, experts are not even sure that the long-term economic effects of these capital gains tax cuts are positive rather then negative.
One reason is that preferential tax rates for capital gains encourage tax sheltering, by creating incentives for taxpayers to take often-convoluted steps to reclassify ordinary income as capital gains. This is economically unproductive and wastes resources. The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center’s director Leonard Burman, one of the nation’s leading tax experts, has explained, “shelter investments are invariably lousy, unproductive ventures that would never exist but for tax benefits.” Burman has concluded that, “capital gains tax cuts are as likely to depress the economy as to stimulate it.”
| 103 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:37:45am |
re: #99 SpaceJesus
I dunno, but Mr. Perkins can probably tell you
The only thing we have to fear about gays is the realization they have a better sense of design than the rest of us.
LEAVE MY COW FURNITURE AND COUNTRY KITCHEN ALONE!!
| 104 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:40:05am |
re: #67 lawhawk
GOP now filibustering the 9/11 Zadroga act until the tax package is moved. Lovely.
Of course they are. After all, tax cuts > everything else. And free markets solve everything.
/2010 GOP
| 105 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:40:53am |
re: #104 Lidane
Of course they are. After all, tax cuts > everything else. And free markets solve everything.
/2010 GOP
Just re-format the economy.
Works for computers.
/
| 106 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:43:28am |
re: #33 marjoriemoon
I don’t know about all that… I know it’s a big debate, but I don’t see whether it matters if you choose or don’t choose. What’s the diff?
I had no idea about the Donner Party. And here I thought Santa had gay reindeer.
I think it’s largely not a matter of choice, and I also think that if it were a matter of choice, it’s a choice everyone should be free to make without judgement.
Neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket.
| 107 |
Soundboard Fez Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:44:24am |
Whoever gets to my gym right when it opens always makes sure that Fox & Friends ends up on the locker room tv, so I happened to catch this segment this morning. Tony Perkins got busted buying mailing lists off David Duke a few years ago. I would consider this factoid extremely relevant to the main point, but the Fox hosts “forgot” to bring it up!!
| 108 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:44:42am |
re: #104 Lidane
Anyone who doesn’t see that the GOP platform is nothing other than catering to corporate interests (which is motivated by the politician/campaign donator circle-jerk that is American politics) is willfully blind.
Not that Dems aren’t largely motivated by the same purpose, but at least they’re a bit less uniform in their depravity, and sometimes actually do support policies based on their social benefit.
| 109 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:45:09am |
re: #59 marjoriemoon
California rocks by the way. I was reading some dissing of Berkeley last night which I think is appalling. I don’t care if these people are out there, on the fringe, whatever. We should be thanking Californians for many of our freedoms because if they hadn’t pushed the envelope, it would still be closed shut for the rest of us.
Thanks for those kind words, lady, but really, it’s Massachusetts and Iowa who’ve been able to actually pass and keep same-sex marriage.
| 110 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:47:13am |
re: #108 Talking Point Detective
Anyone who doesn’t see that the GOP platform is nothing other than catering to corporate interests (which is motivated by the politician/campaign donator circle-jerk that is American politics) is willfully blind.
And yet they put Ron Paul in charge of monetary policy. WTF?
| 111 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:48:41am |
re: #63 Obdicut
I also want to draw a big line between the university at Berkeley and the city of Berkeley. They are not the same.
And the city and the university both contain many complicated parts. The university is wild-eyed student radicals with nasty agendas, and it’s also world-class academics, including some of the best science, engineering and law programs in the country.
The city is loony activists, but it’s also aging hippies who love and care for their community, immigrant families who raise children, and nice residential with pretty yards near lovely restaurants.
| 112 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:48:48am |
re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist
I think it’s largely not a matter of choice, and I also think that if it were a matter of choice, it’s a choice everyone should be free to make without judgement.
Neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket.
I have a number of gay friends who told me it was their choice and I know I lot of people don’t like to hear that. What do I know.
| 113 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:49:20am |
re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist
Thanks for those kind words, lady, but really, it’s Massachusetts and Iowa who’ve been able to actually pass and keep same-sex marriage.
Oh I guess that’s true! But you rock anyway :>
| 114 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:49:31am |
re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist
Yep. And the city and university are often in conflict with each other, too.
| 115 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:49:53am |
re: #88 marjoriemoon
Me too. Well, not the cheerleaders exactly. Not that there’s anything wrong with that :p
Even though I’m a female and not supposed to have a sex drive.
(Sorry, was reliving an old conversation when I probably shouldn’t.)
Oh, yeah, the old ‘teenage girls only have sex to get love’ routine?
| 116 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:51:42am |
re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist
And the city and the university both contain many complicated parts. The university is wild-eyed student radicals with nasty agendas, and it’s also world-class academics, including some of the best science, engineering and law programs in the country.
The city is loony activists, but it’s also aging hippies who love and care for their community, immigrant families who raise children, and nice residential with pretty yards near lovely restaurants.
Berkeley is a great town. Not the least because of the Thai Temple.
| 117 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:51:47am |
re: #112 marjoriemoon
I have a number of gay friends who told me it was their choice and I know I lot of people don’t like to hear that. What do I know.
It’s scientifically or sociologically interesting, it’s just not all that important to me. Either way, people should be free to love who they love, form families freely, and do what they like with their own bodies.
| 118 |
What, me worry? Thu, Dec 9, 2010 10:57:20am |
re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s scientifically or sociologically interesting, it’s just not all that important to me. Either way, people should be free to love who they love, form families freely, and do what they like with their own bodies.
That’s it completely. I guess they think if it’s a choice, then you can choose to go back and I say, if you do you do, what diff does it make either way?
I have three friends off the top of my head (2 women and a man) who confided in me they had no same sex desires when they were young. In fact, two of them married and had children. They all are a little older, over middle age so maybe that had something to do with it, I really don’t know.
| 119 |
recusancy Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:03:52am |
re: #118 marjoriemoon
That sounds like more asexual rather then homo or hetero. People with sex drives don’t choose which gender they’re driven towards.
| 120 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:04:14am |
re: #119 recusancy
Er. Bisexuals do exist.
| 121 |
recusancy Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:08:10am |
re: #120 Obdicut
Ya. But they don’t choose to be attracted to both.
| 122 |
recusancy Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:09:09am |
re: #120 Obdicut
Er. Bisexuals do exist.
Oh shit.. I misread her post… I read it as no sex desires rather then no same sex desires. I’m a dope.
| 123 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:10:05am |
re: #122 recusancy
I figured you must be misreading it somehow. No worries.
| 124 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:10:38am |
re: #120 Obdicut
Er. Bisexuals do exist.
There is a spectrum of sexuality that runs from completely heterosexual to completely homosexual. The notion that sexuality is a binary attribute (at least for most people) is a misconception. The notion that it is either a choice or an inherited attribute is a related misconception.
| 125 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:14:11am |
re: #124 Talking Point Detective
I think, actually, that any way that treats gender itself as binary is missing the boat.
People aren’t even necessarily attracted to all members of the ‘gender’ they’re attracted to. So you can have someone who’s only attracted to a small percentage of women, and a non-existent percentage of men. What are they?
In addition, attraction, for humans, gets mediated in consciousness. We might have limbic responses to things that we don’t ever recognize, but we’re not wrong to say that we’re “not attracted”, if what we’re doing is suppressing it in such a way that it never actually affects us in any significant way.
| 126 |
simoom Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:21:52am |
re: #38 elizajane
“Fox News executives told the network’s journalists to avoid referring to the “public option” when discussing Democrats’ proposals for a government-run health insurance plan, according to internal e-mails released Thursday.”
Hmm. They also were early adopters of news anchors calling HCR “ObamaCare”, though I’ve noticed a number off CNN reporters like John King and Dana Bash doing the same lately…
| 127 |
Talking Point Detective Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:22:34am |
re: #125 Obdicut
In addition, attraction, for humans, gets mediated in consciousness. We might have limbic responses to things that we don’t ever recognize, but we’re not wrong to say that we’re “not attracted”, if what we’re doing is suppressing it in such a way that it never actually affects us in any significant way.
Good point. When someone is attracted to someone else, sexual identity is only one of many different factors - a lot of which are operating at a completely unconscious level.
I guess it would be more accurate to say that some are more along towards one end of the specturm than others.
Did you ever see this movie?
I remember that after watching it I felt that the entire notion of sexuality is, in some ways, kind of arbitrary, and certainly a misconception that oppresses many people in this society.
| 128 |
yoshicastmaster Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:31:15am |
Fox News: Not Racist, But #1 With Racists… and Bigots
| 129 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:31:18am |
| 130 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:51:09am |
re: #86 recusancy
Dollars directed to needed infrastructure spending give a positive return. Dollars directed to pointless infrastructure spending, such as a bridge to nowhere in Alaska, do not. In the physical economy, good and valuable things such as fuel, iron, and cement, are used up or put where they can’t be got at and made useful.
There’s only so much useful infrastructure spending that can be done at any given time. In the same way, there’s only so many people who need food stamps, only so many who cannot find work.
| 131 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Thu, Dec 9, 2010 11:54:17am |
re: #130 lostlakehiker
A large part of the reason that infrastructure spending gives a positive benefit is because of the job creation, and the spending from those jobs into the economy. So, for your assertion to be true, you’d have to show that subtracting the value of the final product actually brought below the 1/1 ratio.
| 132 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Dec 9, 2010 1:30:34pm |
re: #103 marjoriemoon
The only thing we have to fear about gays is the realization they have a better sense of design than the rest of us.
LEAVE MY COW FURNITURE AND COUNTRY KITCHEN ALONE!!
hahah my sense of home design is probably way worse than yours, unless you consider hallucinogenic figure paintings and rock posters and ethernet wire snaking everywhere to be cutting edge
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