Video: Fareed Zakaria Corrects Glenn Beck's Math

Video: Fareed Zakaria Corrects Glenn Beck’s Math

Charles Johnson

WingnutsDecember 2010 • Views: 25,134

Fareed Zakaria lays waste to Glenn Beck’s fear mongering claim that 10% of the world’s Muslims are terrorists.

Video

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122 comments

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:11:04pm

Well I’m glad somebody is doing it… though I somehow bet if I were to say that 10% of Beck’s “audience” (as in the people who watch him to watch him rather than those who do it for the lulzs the way some here and the Daily Show writers do) saw this video I’d be over estimating it.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:13:18pm

Loved it. But. Let’s never forget for a second that it was CNN that catapulted Beck’s career to the level where he is now.

Kronocide Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:13:34pm

Upding Zakaria. Keep it up!

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:14:39pm

re: #2 Sergey Romanov

Loved it. But. Let’s never forget for a second that it was CNN that catapulted Beck’s career to the level where he is now.

They’re also the guys who hired and still promote Erik Son of Erik…

I believe what Jon Stewart has to say honestly, CNN doesn’t have a clue what it wants to do as a network….

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:17:00pm

re: #4 jamesfirecat

That’s why the librul media meme was invented. In order to fight it the media hires the likes of Erickson, Beck, Savage.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:18:38pm

That was good especially the end point. Using Glenn Beck’s “logic” against him and it comes so easily.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:18:43pm

“Of course the FBI, State Department, etc., use the more common-sense definition that they are well, terrorists, but never mind that.”

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:19:12pm

Zakaria used to be very persona non grata around here.

jaunte Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:19:51pm

Millions and millions of uniquely apathetic terrorists.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:20:27pm

re: #9 jaunte

Millions and millions of uniquely apathetic terrorists.

Some of them are babies! Fear the terrorist babies!

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:22:40pm

re: #6 Gus 802

That was good especially the end point. Using Glenn Beck’s “logic” against him and it comes so easily.

Remember when Jon Stewart used Glenn Beck’s logic to prove that Glenn Beck was a puppet of Soros hired to make Fox news look crazy?

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:22:43pm

re: #10 Gus 802

Some of them are babies! Fear the terrorist babies!

Terrorist anchor babies, fathered on Big Mexican Women, Gus. By Iranian agents with tattoos in Arabic. Please try to keep up.

BishopX Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:23:21pm

re: #8 SanFranciscoZionist

Why?

bratwurst Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:24:05pm

re: #8 SanFranciscoZionist

Zakaria used to be very persona non grata around here.

Yes, he dared to admit that he regretted his early support for the war in Iraq.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:24:09pm

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

Terrorist anchor babies, fathered on Big Mexican Women, Gus. By Iranian agents with tattoos in Arabic. Please try to keep up.

Farsi tattoos, AWOL Afghans, and BMWs!

ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:24:22pm

Unfortunately, the bomber in Stockholm is probably going to give us grief.

Seriously, an attack on Stockholm!?!? Why? One the most neutral countries on the planet and their attacking over what is more than likely a small presence of troops. All this is going to do is make people angry.

Sorry about the rant, but I really needed blow off steam. Along with being a recent convert, a part of my ancestry in Swedish.

Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:25:22pm

I can think of a few colorful words I would use to describe Glenn Beck.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:25:44pm

re: #13 BishopX

Why?

Not gung-ho enough, said things about the Middle East that people didn’t find simplistic enough.

I recall at one point Newsweek ran a cover story of his, with a cover that was green with white lettering in Arabic saying that Islamic extremism was not going away, and people about had aneurysms.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:25:50pm

re: #8 SanFranciscoZionist

You know better since you were here then, but I just searched and didn’t find much negative about him from Charles who, in fact, complimented him in Dec. 2001. Maybe he wasn’t popular among the former contingent of Lizards. ;-)

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:26:24pm

re: #19 Sergey Romanov

You know better since you were here then, but I just searched and didn’t find much negative about him from Charles who, in fact, complimented him in Dec. 2001. Maybe he wasn’t popular among the former contingent of Lizards. ;-)

Yes, that’s what I meant. Charles, I don’t recall having anything against him.

Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:26:39pm

re: #16 ProLifeLiberal

Unfortunately, the bomber in Stockholm is probably going to give us grief.

Seriously, an attack on Stockholm!?!? Why? One the most neutral countries on the planet and their attacking over what is more than likely a small presence of troops. All this is going to do is make people angry.

Sorry about the rant, but I really needed blow off steam. Along with being a recent convert, a part of my ancestry in Swedish.

Soft target, force them to take a stronger stance either way and spin it into a victory either way they choose.

BishopX Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:28:37pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah…sometimes I forget just how far to the right this blog used to be. I started reading several months after Charles made is break with the right wing official.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:29:17pm

re: #19 Sergey Romanov

You know better since you were here then, but I just searched and didn’t find much negative about him from Charles who, in fact, complimented him in Dec. 2001. Maybe he wasn’t popular among the former contingent of Lizards. ;-)

More like CNN wasn’t popular. You know, Communist News Network. You had to be careful about posting links to CNN not very long ago. It would sometimes lead to a lot of whining.

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:32:52pm

re: #16 ProLifeLiberal

Unfortunately, the bomber in Stockholm is probably going to give us grief.

Seriously, an attack on Stockholm!?!? Why? One the most neutral countries on the planet and their attacking over what is more than likely a small presence of troops. All this is going to do is make people angry.

Sorry about the rant, but I really needed blow off steam. Along with being a recent convert, a part of my ancestry in Swedish.

The Islamists don’t care. They do not attack Sweden because Sweden has wronged them, they attack Sweden because they seek to conquer it.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:38:17pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

The Islamists don’t care. They do not attack Sweden because Sweden has wronged them, they attack Sweden because they seek to conquer it.

I sometimes see it more as revenge. It might not even have any real political goal and is based purely on an emotional component much like the cliche, “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.” Or in this particular case he took his own teeth and eyes.

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:38:37pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

The Islamists don’t care. They do not attack Sweden because Sweden has wronged them, they attack Sweden because they seek to conquer it.

Yeah, that and cartoons….
Stockholm Hit by Blasts After E-Mail Warning

The country’s foreign minister called the blasts a terrorist attack, and an e-mail to news organizations minutes before the blasts seemed to link them to anger over anti-Islamic cartoons and the war in Afghanistan.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:42:23pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Yeah, that and cartoons…
Stockholm Hit by Blasts After E-Mail Warning

They need to get it through their thick skulls that blasphemy is a Western tradition. If they want to kill people for blasphemy than they shouldn’t live in the Western world.

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:43:28pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

The Islamists don’t care. They do not attack Sweden because Sweden has wronged them, they attack Sweden because they seek to conquer it.

Dark you make them sound like the Borg or some invading monsters from space…

I think we can understand these fundamentalists a little bit better than that, if this was some kind of organized terrorist job there was probably some sort of logic to it…

Granted from what I understand given that the guy blew himself up (did he?) it probably wasn’t an organized thing and more like one guy flipping out and going crazy if you ask me….

///Check it out mah, I don’t know how to properly end a sentence!

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:43:53pm

re: #27 Gus 802

They need to get it through their thick skulls that blasphemy is a Western tradition. If they want to kill people for blasphemy than they shouldn’t live in the Western world.

Umm… didn’t Ireland just make Blasphemy illegal?

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:43:54pm

re: #27 Gus 802

They need to get it through their thick skulls that blasphemy is a Western tradition. If they want to kill people for blasphemy than they shouldn’t live in the Western world.

That reasoning doesn’t really work. It’s like telling someone that if they hate America so much they should leave.

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:44:05pm

re: #27 Gus 802

They need to get it through their thick skulls that blasphemy is a Western tradition. If they want to kill people for blasphemy than they shouldn’t live in the Western world.

They understand its our tradition. They seek to overthrow our traditions and replace them with theirs.

BishopX Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:44:17pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

Or because they happened to be in Sweden when they got radicalized. Most people don’t go too far from home when they pick targets.

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:46:17pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

Dark you make them sound like the Borg or some invading monsters from space…

I think we can understand these fundamentalists a little bit better than that, if this was some kind of organized terrorist job there was probably some sort of logic to it…

Granted from what I understand given that the guy blew himself up (did he?) it probably wasn’t an organized thing and more like one guy flipping out and going crazy if you ask me…

///Check it out mah, I don’t know how to properly end a sentence!

Well, it is more complicated than the way I said it but I reduced it to be simple in order to post it. A full explanation would take hours to write.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:46:45pm

re: #29 jamesfirecat

Umm… didn’t Ireland just make Blasphemy illegal?

Yes, those knuckleheads in Ireland did make blasphemy illegal so to speak. Of course, unlike most Muslim countries, you won’t get executed for it. Those laws are nothing but appeasement towards religious extremists of all stripes.

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:50:02pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Well, it is more complicated than the way I said it but I reduced it to be simple in order to post it. A full explanation would take hours to write.

Fair enough, just felt like I had to provide a counter argument.

ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:51:12pm

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I did some research into when the last terrorist attacks on Sweden were.

Exempting an incident last year when a bomb was rigged to blow-up after the journalist opened her door (that seems very personal), I found just 3

One was on September 11, 2003, when a Serb upset by Sweden support of the US campaign in the 90’s against Serbia assassinated Foreign Minister Anne Lindh.

Another was the 1986 assassination of Olaf Palme.

Before that was the 1975 occupation of the West German Embassy in Stockholm by communists, who blew it up before they surrendered.

The earliest one I can find in recent times after a cursory search was the hostage taking and killing of a Yugoslav diplomat in 1971 by Croatian Fascists.

Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:52:14pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

They understand its our tradition. They seek to overthrow our traditions and replace them with theirs.

Blowing yourself up is an action, not an ideology. I don’t think it’s necessarily true that the motivations behind this sort of thing are as predictable as they might appear at first glance.

ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:52:29pm

re: #36 ProLifeLiberal

Sorry, 4 attacks. Counting Fail.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:52:55pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

They understand its our tradition. They seek to overthrow our traditions and replace them with theirs.

The extremists. I’m not too concerned about them overthrowing Sweden any time soon. However, I think it’s important that we strengthen the foundation of the Western traditions to prevent the world from going down the path of another Dark Ages. The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age. Theocracy, in all its forms, must be rejected.

Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:53:07pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

The Islamists don’t care. They do not attack Sweden because Sweden has wronged them, they attack Sweden because they seek to conquer it.

Bugger, I didn’t realize it was all of the Islamists.

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:57:28pm

re: #39 Gus 802

The extremists. I’m not too concerned about them overthrowing Sweden any time soon. However, I think it’s important that we strengthen the foundation of the Western traditions to prevent the world from going down the path of another Dark Ages. The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age. Theocracy, in all its forms, must be rejected.

Quite Concur.

re: #40 ozbloke

Bugger, I didn’t realize it was all of the Islamists.

Please understand that I use the term “Islamist” only to refer to those involved with Radical Islam (also referred to as Political Islam). I am not referring to all (or even most) Muslims.

ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:59:03pm

Wikipedia put a quote on their article that makes me think that this an attack by outsiders to Sweden. Specifically, it had an urging to Muslims in Sweden and Europe. I guess my logic says that outsiders are trying to stir the pot.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 6:59:42pm

a 1000% here or there is not the point….I guess

CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:00:53pm

re: #39 Gus 802

The extremists. I’m not too concerned about them overthrowing Sweden any time soon. However, I think it’s important that we strengthen the foundation of the Western traditions to prevent the world from going down the path of another Dark Ages. The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age. Theocracy, in all its forms, must be rejected.

Wait, are you saying that Western traditions should be imposed on the rest of the world? Just asking because that’s what it sounded like you were saying. Because I don’t think we can control what happens in the entire world.

Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:01:30pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

re: #40 ozbloke

Please understand that I use the term “Islamist” only to refer to those involved with Radical Islam (also referred to as Political Islam). I am not referring to all (or even most) Muslims.

I know, because I have your comments often enough.
But not everyone who will read this does.
I think its unfair on LGF to leave something which could be implied by others to say something I know you didn’t mean.

Believe it or not, I’m trying to help.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:02:00pm

re: #44 CuriousLurker

Wait, are you saying that Western traditions should be imposed on the rest of the world? Just asking because that’s what it sounded like you were saying. Because I don’t think we can control what happens in the entire world.

drag racing in Iceland would be cool

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:02:11pm

re: #43 albusteve

a 1000% here or there is not the point…I guess

In terms of numbers, it makes a pretty significant difference.

Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:02:27pm

re: #39 Gus 802

The extremists. I’m not too concerned about them overthrowing Sweden any time soon. However, I think it’s important that we strengthen the foundation of the Western traditions to prevent the world from going down the path of another Dark Ages. The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age. Theocracy, in all its forms, must be rejected.

So, too, must imperialism be rejected.

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:02:47pm

re: #45 ozbloke

I know, because I have your comments often enough.
But not everyone who will read this does.
I think its unfair on LGF to leave something which could be implied by others to say something I know you didn’t mean.

Believe it or not, I’m trying to help.

OK, I understand. Thank you for your help.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:03:13pm

re: #45 ozbloke

I know, because I have your comments often enough.
But not everyone who will read this does.
I think its unfair on LGF to leave something which could be implied by others to say something I know you didn’t mean.

Believe it or not, I’m trying to help.

maybe Bill O’Reilly could use your help

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:03:14pm

re: #44 CuriousLurker

Wait, are you saying that Western traditions should be imposed on the rest of the world? Just asking because that’s what it sounded like you were saying. Because I don’t think we can control what happens in the entire world.

Wherever they exist. No, I have no plans on invading Indonesia. Plus, my army is small and unarmed.

Seriously though. What I’m saying is that we should not appease towards and religious dogma and trample on traditions such as the Establishment Clause. It’s called assimilation.

CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:03:23pm

re: #46 albusteve

drag racing in Iceland would be cool

Nascar?

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:03:59pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

So, too, must imperialism be rejected.

Oh brother. How the heck did you get imperialism out of that?

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:04:03pm

re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist

In terms of numbers, it makes a pretty significant difference.

when taken seriously yes, I don’t take Beck seriously….if I ever do, please kill me

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:04:18pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Wherever they exist. No, I have no plans on invading Indonesia. Plus, my army is small and unarmed.

Seriously though. What I’m saying is that we should not appease towards and religious dogma and trample on traditions such as the Establishment Clause. It’s called assimilation.

I prefer the term “integration”.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:04:56pm

re: #52 CuriousLurker

Nascar?

with spiked tires….think of 100ft showers of snowflakes at every turn…far out man

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:04:56pm

re: #46 albusteve

drag racing in Iceland would be cool

NASCAR

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:05:19pm

re: #52 CuriousLurker

Nascar?

re: #57 reine.de.tout

NASCAR

gmta

Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:05:32pm

re: #53 Gus 802

Oh brother. How the heck did you get imperialism out of that?

You can’t push culture on people who don’t want it, which is what your post seemed to imply. Not only will it not work, it will backfire.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:06:36pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Wherever they exist. No, I have no plans on invading Indonesia. Plus, my army is small and unarmed.

Seriously though. What I’m saying is that we should not appease towards and religious dogma and trample on traditions such as the Establishment Clause. It’s called assimilation.

assimilation is dead….look around you

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:06:58pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

So, too, must imperialism be rejected.

Imperialism, Wokka Wokka Wokka.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:07:00pm

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

You can’t push culture on people who don’t want it, which is what your post seemed to imply. Not only will it not work, it will backfire.

Read it again. Here, I’ll post again line by line:

I think it’s important that we strengthen the foundation of the Western traditions to prevent the world from going down the path of another Dark Ages.

The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age.

Theocracy, in all its forms, must be rejected.

CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:07:02pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Wherever they exist. No, I have no plans on invading Indonesia. Plus, my army is small and unarmed.

Seriously though. What I’m saying is that we should not appease towards and religious dogma and trample on traditions such as the Establishment Clause. It’s called assimilation.

Of course we shouldn’t trample on the Constitution. I’m well aware of what assimilation is, thanks.

Speaking of laws, I’m somewhat surprised at how many countries have some sort of blasphemy law on the books.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:07:32pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Imperialism, Wokka Wokka Wokka.

LOL!….SUBMIT!

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:08:12pm

re: #55 Sergey Romanov

I prefer the term “integration”.

“Integration” has a specific Civil Rights connotation in the minds of US citizens.
Which is why I think we may tend to use “assimilation” instead.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:09:10pm

who knows what people will read into a post…therefore my posts are usually just this long and as direct as can be tolerated in such a windy environment

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:10:21pm

re: #65 reine.de.tout

“Integration” has a specific Civil Rights connotation in the minds of US citizens.
Which is why I think we may tend to use “assimilation” instead.

Though I think the difference you might be trying to point out, is that integration would be melding into a society without losing one’s identity, whereas assimilation implies that you lose one identity and take on another. Did I get it?

Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:10:26pm

re: #62 Gus 802

The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age.

This is the part I find… off. It’s not our planet, it’s just our culture. This sentiment appears numerous times throughout history, just before nations do crazy things.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:10:45pm

re: #65 reine.de.tout

“Integration” has a specific Civil Rights connotation in the minds of US citizens.
Which is why I think we may tend to use “assimilation” instead.

I was going to say something about that. Integration is still a highly charged word. The bigots used to say “don’t integrate, segregate.”

Interesting Times Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:12:05pm

re: #65 reine.de.tout

“Integration” has a specific Civil Rights connotation in the minds of US citizens.
Which is why I think we may tend to use “assimilation” instead.

It was a perfectly fine word before these people went and ruined it ;)

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:12:39pm

re: #68 Fozzie Bear

This is the part I find… off. It’s not our planet, it’s just our culture. This sentiment appears numerous times throughout history, just before nations do crazy things.

I see. So I guess there is also a moral equivalence to this and let’s say, creationist Christians demanding creationism be taught in public schools? All things being equal that is?

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:13:19pm

re: #65 reine.de.tout

I understand. I just think that assimilation may also have problematic historical connotations, e.g. for Jews. I think one can be integrated without being assimilated.

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:14:06pm

re: #70 publicityStunted

It was a perfectly fine word before these people went and ruined it ;)

Hee.
It’s still a perfectly fine word.
But history has a way of giving words an additional emotional meaning, as well as its dictionary meaning, and we all are subject to it, and end up avoiding certain words.

Like “discrimination”. It’s perfectly fine to be discriminating and discriminate between, say, bad music and good music. But we avoid using that word, always.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:14:18pm

re: #63 CuriousLurker

Speaking of laws, I’m somewhat surprised at how many countries have some sort of blasphemy law on the books.

I’m always surprised by that sort of thing. I just can’t wrap my head around it.

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:15:48pm

re: #72 Sergey Romanov

I understand. I just think that assimilation may also have problematic historical connotations, e.g. for Jews. I think one can be integrated without being assimilated.

Gotcha.
Odd, how words take on those emotional meanings that have exactly ZERO to do with their actual, dictionary meaning, and we avoid using them.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:15:55pm

re: #67 reine.de.tout

Though I think the difference you might be trying to point out, is that integration would be melding into a society without losing one’s identity, whereas assimilation implies that you lose one identity and take on another. Did I get it?

Exactly.

Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:15:58pm

re: #71 Gus 802

I see. So I guess there is also a moral equivalence to this and let’s say, creationist Christians demanding creationism be taught in public schools? All things being equal that is?

No, I would say that “The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age.” sounds exactly like the sort of thing dominionists would say, if you substitute “Christian” for “Western”.

There are such things as non-hostile, non-western traditions. We don’t own the idea of live and let live.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:17:39pm

re: #77 Fozzie Bear

No, I would say that “The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age.” sounds exactly like the sort of thing dominionists would say, if you substitute “Christian” for “Western”.

There are such things as non-hostile, non-western traditions. We don’t own the idea of live and let live.

who?…are they considered modern by any regard?….you are fudging words

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:18:36pm

re: #77 Fozzie Bear

No, I would say that “The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age.” sounds exactly like the sort of thing dominionists would say, if you substitute “Christian” for “Western”.

There are such things as non-hostile, non-western traditions. We don’t own the idea of live and let live.

Strengthening our Western traditions is not hostile. But, I see you’re intent on demonizing what I said so I really don’t see the point in continuing this discussion with you. Thanks for your input. I stand by my statement.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:19:16pm

NEWSFLASH!
modern, peace loving Pygmies put man on the moon!…details at 11

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:23:42pm

re: #79 Gus 802

Strengthening our Western traditions is not hostile. But, I see you’re intent on demonizing what I said so I really don’t see the point in continuing this discussion with you. Thanks for your input. I stand by my statement.

And I stand with you.

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:23:52pm

re: #79 Gus 802

Strengthening our Western traditions is not hostile. But, I see you’re intent on demonizing what I said so I really don’t see the point in continuing this discussion with you. Thanks for your input. I stand by my statement.

Love ya Gus.
I stand by your statement, as well.

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:24:54pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

Love ya Gus.
I stand by your statement, as well.

I have spoken

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:24:58pm

re: #77 Fozzie Bear

No, I would say that “The Western tradition is the empirically superior culture best suited for the modern age.” sounds exactly like the sort of thing dominionists would say, if you substitute “Christian” for “Western”.

There are such things as non-hostile, non-western traditions. We don’t own the idea of live and let live.

Saying “We’ve got the best system” does not mean we force it on others. You can be sure you’re the best and still practice live and let live.

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:25:54pm

re: #83 albusteve

I have spoken

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:25:59pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

re: #82 reine.de.tout

Thanks DF, Reine. :)

jaunte Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:26:55pm

re: #44 CuriousLurker

More plumbing would be good.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:27:07pm

re: #86 Gus 802

I’d stand with ya, but I prolly should take a shower first.

Phew!

ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:27:10pm

re: #63 CuriousLurker

On a related subject, several western nations have an interesting view of Relgion and State affairs.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Go down to the part about States having an Official State Religion. A few unusual nations show up.

Gus Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:27:16pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Saying “We’ve got the best system” does not mean we force it on others. You can be sure you’re the best and still practice live and let live.

Kind of hard sometimes. It’s not PC.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:28:10pm

re: #79 Gus 802

Is it so hard to say “liberal democracy” instead of “Western traditions” which smacks of talks about “Western civilization” by the usual suspects? ;-)

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:28:11pm

re: #78 albusteve

who?…are they considered modern by any regard?…you are fudging words

Japan?

albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:28:31pm

re: #85 reine.de.tout

{{Steve}}

and the same to you

Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:30:00pm

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

Is it so hard to say “liberal democracy” instead of “Western traditions” which smacks of talks about “Western civilization” by the usual suspects? ;-)

I tried to make that point, but it apparently incited mass disagreement. Oh well.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:34:44pm

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Heh. Anytime someone goes on about how “American Culture” is going down the tubes and/or damning us all to hell, “what with all this hippity-hop music, Hollyweird values, and brain washing vid-yuh games”, I just point eastward at all the tentacle pr0n and used panty vending machines, and buy them a tall glass of STFU.

Interesting Times Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:38:24pm

re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. Anytime someone goes on about how “American Culture” is going down the tubes and/or damning us all to hell, “what with all this hippity-hop music, Hollyweird values, and brain washing vid-yuh games”, I just point eastward at all the tentacle pr0n and used panty vending machines, and buy them a tall glass of STFU.

Not to mention that the culture in question certainly doesn’t seem to practice “live and let live” as far as endangered marine species are concerned *cough* bluefin tuna *cough*

_{Not that we’re perfect in this respect, but at least we pay some homage to the concept…}

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:38:35pm

re: #90 Gus 802

Kind of hard sometimes. It’s not PC.

That just makes it more important to say.

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:39:58pm

re: #94 Fozzie Bear

I tried to make that point, but it apparently incited mass disagreement. Oh well.

Sergey made the point without also making the assumption that Gus was talking “imperialism”, and made his point in a way that didn’t denigrate Gus.

So … if that was the point you were trying to make, you didn’t make it well.

There might be a lesson in all of that, if you care to take notice.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:42:49pm

re: #98 reine.de.tout

Sergey made the point without also making the assumption that Gus was talking “imperialism”, and made his point in a way that didn’t denigrate Gus.

So … if that was the point you were trying to make, you didn’t make it well.

There might be a lesson in all of that, if you care to take notice.

Funny thing is that I think we all more or less agree on the heart of the matter, but language gets between us :-)

100

b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:43:33pm

re: #2 Sergey Romanov

Loved it. But. Let’s never forget for a second that it was CNN that catapulted Beck’s career to the level where he is now.

Why?

101

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:43:50pm

re: #99 Sergey Romanov

Funny thing is that I think we all more or less agree on the heart of the matter, but language gets between us :-)

Unless one very carefully considers and chooses his words, and tone. Which you do a very good job with.

102

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:48:05pm

re: #101 reine.de.tout

Thanks. But quite often I can be tone-deaf. I’ve had quarrels with allies because of something in what I wrote rubbed them the wrong way, not really the content, but how I wrote it. I can’t even always pinpoint what, but I know it. Could be a difference in language and culture, or a personality flaw, or a combination.

103

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:49:28pm

re: #102 Sergey Romanov

Thanks. But quite often I can be tone-deaf. I’ve had quarrels with allies because of something in what I wrote rubbed them the wrong way, not really the content, but how I wrote it. I can’t even always pinpoint what, but I know it. Could be a difference in language and culture, or a personality flaw, or a combination.

A good point, and one worth remembering.

104

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:52:26pm

re: #100 b_sharp

Why?

Why we should not forget that CNN propped Beck in order to gain points in the ratings race?

105

b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:58:58pm

re: #73 reine.de.tout

Hee.
It’s still a perfectly fine word.
But history has a way of giving words an additional emotional meaning, as well as its dictionary meaning, and we all are subject to it, and end up avoiding certain words.

Like “discrimination”. It’s perfectly fine to be discriminating and discriminate between, say, bad music and good music. But we avoid using that word, always.

People need to use context to help them understand the meaning more than they do.

106

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:59:36pm

re: #102 Sergey Romanov

Thanks. But quite often I can be tone-deaf. I’ve had quarrels with allies because of something in what I wrote rubbed them the wrong way, not really the content, but how I wrote it. I can’t even always pinpoint what, but I know it. Could be a difference in language and culture, or a personality flaw, or a combination.

We all have our moments of FAIL.
But generally, from what I’ve seen, you do an excellent job at making your point, and doing so in a strong way that does not embarrass nor denigrate anyone else. Kudos.

107

CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:02:20pm

re: #90 Gus 802

Kind of hard sometimes. It’s not PC.

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

That just makes it more important to say.

I can’t speak for Fozzie, but it had nothing to do with PC for me. People say crap here all the time that I find offensive, but unless they’re being rude to me personally I just blow it off as I don’t really give enough of a damn about what they think to squabble over it. My confusion stemmed from where Gus said “to prevent the world from”, followed by the rest. Which is why I asked for clarification. Which he gave.

108

b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:02:24pm

re: #80 albusteve

NEWSFLASH!
modern, peace loving Pygmies put man on the moon!…details at 11

If you’re using the ability to land on the moon, as a proxy for advanced technology of course, as a measure of cultural ‘goodness’, then where will your argument stand when China passes the US in space?

109

b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:04:18pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Saying “We’ve got the best system” does not mean we force it on others. You can be sure you’re the best and still practice live and let live.

Define ‘the best system’.

Don’t explain what it isn’t though, it’s necessary to define its attributes.

110

CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:05:11pm

re: #89 ProLifeLiberal

On a related subject, several western nations have an interesting view of Relgion and State affairs.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Go down to the part about States having an Official State Religion. A few unusual nations show up.

I wasn’t aware some of those countries had state religions, but I was more surprised by this in the European initiatives section of the blasphemy laws page:

In place of blasphemy or in addition to blasphemy in some European countries is the crime of “religious insult”. A religious insult is forbidden in Andorra, Cyprus, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Spain, Finland, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Lithuania, Norway, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Russian Federation, Slovakia, Switzerland, Turkey and Ukraine.

111

b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:11:48pm

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

Why we should not forget that CNN propped Beck in order to gain points in the ratings race?

Why does it matter?

Guilt by association is very seldom a good argument. CNN didn’t make Beck who he is, Beck made Beck who he is, and it took some time to do.

I’m sure CNN can be denigrated on more appropriate (and immediate) grounds than giving a stage to one nut before he was completely over the top.

112

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:14:59pm

re: #111 b_sharp

Why does it matter?

Guilt by association is very seldom a good argument. CNN didn’t make Beck who he is, Beck made Beck who he is, and it took some time to do.

I’m sure CNN can be denigrated on more appropriate (and immediate) grounds than giving a stage to one nut before he was completely over the top.

Well, what “matters” is subjective, of course I won’t force my opinion on you. I just remember when in 2006 I read at MediaMatters that Beck was hired, and read whatever quotations they furnished for him, it was a facepalm moment, and the rest was all too predictable.

113

CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:17:29pm

re: #87 jaunte

More plumbing would be good.

LOL, yeah, I can’t see anyone rejecting that!

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Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:19:24pm

re: #109 b_sharp

Define ‘the best system’.

Don’t explain what it isn’t though, it’s necessary to define its attributes.

At a later time. I’m on the next thread right now and an answer like that requires a lengthy post.

115

Kronocide Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:54:07pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

The Islamists don’t care. They do not attack Sweden because Sweden has wronged them, they attack Sweden because they seek to conquer it.

Because the Sweden is another Great Satan.
/

116

cenotaphium Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:59:49pm

re: #36 ProLifeLiberal

I did some research into when the last terrorist attacks on Sweden were.

Exempting an incident last year when a bomb was rigged to blow-up after the journalist opened her door (that seems very personal), I found just 3

One was on September 11, 2003, when a Serb upset by Sweden support of the US campaign in the 90’s against Serbia assassinated Foreign Minister Anne Lindh.

Another was the 1986 assassination of Olaf Palme.

Before that was the 1975 occupation of the West German Embassy in Stockholm by communists, who blew it up before they surrendered.

The earliest one I can find in recent times after a cursory search was the hostage taking and killing of a Yugoslav diplomat in 1971 by Croatian Fascists.

As a Swede, I have to question the labeling of the murders of Anna Lindh and Olof Palme as “terrorist attacks”. Neither murder was claimed by any terrorist organization or accompanied by any statement of intent.
In the case of Anna Lindh, the perpetrator was deemed to be suffering from mental health problems, which switched him from prison to the psych ward and then back again on a later appeal. The common understanding is that he was a lone nutcase who benefited from our generally lax security arrangements for politicians.
Olof Palmes murder is contested when it comes to who is to blame. The prime suspect, who was also convicted for a time, was again a lone nutcase. Palme’s murder is a bit like JFK’s in that the lack of any grand statement or direct links to major organizations, it’s rife with conspiracy theories (popularly, the CIA had Palme murdered for his stance on the Vietnam war).

As to the guy who blew himself up, right now it looks like he was carrying a bag with nails and a pipebomb. A car loaded with gas flasks exploded before he did, but it is uncertain as to the relation.
In this case, however, there was communication prior to the event that indeed supports the terrorist attack label. Luckily a failed one.

117

Eclectic Infidel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:30:59pm

With respect to Glenn Beck and that entire right-wing ilk: for facts, there’s no demand.

118

lostlakehiker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:18:17pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Saying “We’ve got the best system” does not mean we force it on others. You can be sure you’re the best and still practice live and let live.

Looking down the road, it’s not a sure bet that the Western tradition will come out on top. We have many weaknesses now. China has its own weaknesses, but judging by their rate of progress, these may not be sufficient to stop them overtaking the West. Unless the West can up its game at least some.

TV carried a spot the other day. Shanghai kids at the bottom quintile of their sixth grade out perform American kids at the top quintile of their eighth grade.

This has to have economic and technical consequences down the line. Now we’re all grownups now and we don’t fight wars, but if there ever were to be the shadow of war hanging over our relations, that shadow would hang darker over the side that was technologically inferior.

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lostlakehiker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:36:49pm

Here’s a story about it

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Kid A Sun, Dec 12, 2010 11:44:46am

@ Gus 802…

Some of them are babies! Fear the terrorist babies!

LOL. Can’t you see Beck in Steve Martin’s “The Jerk”?

“HE HATES THESE CANS!!!!! STAY AWAY FROM THE CANS!!!!”

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Kid A Sun, Dec 12, 2010 11:45:41am

re: #10 Gus 802