The music for this evening: ace producer Daniel Lanois’s latest project, Black Dub, featuring the talented Trixie Whitley (daughter of the late great Chris Whitley). This track is titled “I Believe In You.”
Here’s an Amazon widget with audio samples from the rest of this fine album:
1 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:10:31pm |
Bloody teaser Charles, blocked in my country.
| 2 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:13:43pm |
| 3 |
Varek Raith Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:14:05pm |
| 4 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:14:48pm |
Why does Charles hate us?
/
| 5 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:16:00pm |
Oh now that is nice as we decorate the tree, with a very young lady guest... almost 5 years old. And her adopted Dad... Great evening after going out to cut a farm tree.
| 6 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:16:17pm |
re: #1 ozbloke
Bloody teaser Charles, blocked in my country.
Same here. I could try finding a glype proxy, but meh ;-)
| 7 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:17:41pm |
re: #4 ozbloke
Why does Charles hate us?
/
Youtube doesn't show him that its blocked Down Under. All he knows is that its available in the US.
| 8 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:18:21pm |
re: #6 Sergey Romanov
Same here. I could try finding a glype proxy, but meh ;-)
I use to use a few, but most of the video places are now aware and block proxy connections.
Its shitty having to hunt around for alternate versions.
| 9 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:20:42pm |
re: #7 Dark_Falcon
Youtube doesn't show him that its blocked Down Under. All he knows is that its available in the US.
Thanks DF, that works.
"Black Dub" in the studio - "I believe in you"
| 10 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:20:51pm |
re: #5 Rightwingconspirator
What fun! 5 is a great age. Are you going down to the train yards?
| 12 |
Varek Raith Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:21:51pm |
re: #11 wozzablog
blocked in the uk too
That's what you get for blocking funny stuff from the BBC in the states!
:P
/
| 14 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:22:42pm |
re: #9 ozbloke
Still doesn't work for me. :)
| 16 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:24:02pm |
Metacafe works:
[Link: www.metacafe.com...]
| 18 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:26:28pm |
re: #17 ozbloke
Yep. Reminds me of something, but can't pinpoint for now.
| 19 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:26:36pm |
re: #12 Varek Raith
That's what you get for blocking funny stuff from the BBC in the states!
:P
/
Touche.
| 20 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:30:20pm |
anyways.
g'night all.
Still recovering from my back surgery,
*sigh*
| 21 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:30:35pm |
Here's another good song, Skunk Anansie - God Loves Only You:
| 22 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:32:40pm |
Uh oh. KT dinged.
;-)
| 23 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:33:30pm |
Wow, Michael Vick just threw a 60-yard pass to open the Eagles' first drive against the Cowboys.
| 24 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:35:58pm |
re: #23 Dark_Falcon
Wow, Michael Vick just threw a 60-yard pass to open the Eagles' first drive against the Cowboys.
Who let the dogs out!!
//
| 25 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:40:47pm |
| 26 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:41:46pm |
re: #25 Killgore Trout
The dynamics are getting ... interesting.
| 27 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:42:22pm |
re: #10 Floral Giraffe
We went to Valencia for the trees, one for MIL and one for home. Yeah, at 5 her permanent memory is just being expressed, to no small amount of humor. LOL.
| 28 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:46:16pm |
re: #25 Killgore Trout
No comment.
Hey. The majority of Americans "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" ergo since the majority of Americans think Wikileaks is harmful to America it must be a bad position to take.
Basically that means since the majority of American "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" the majority must be wrong about everything.
Seems like a rather flawed conclusion. What Barrett Brown is really saying is that the majority is only drawing flawed conclusions (using the creationism analogy) only when they contradict his own views. I doubt he came to that conclusion when Obama won the election in 2008.
| 29 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:48:09pm |
re: #25 Killgore Trout
No comment.
You were and are, right. Period.
Your critics can only dance for so long.
| 30 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:50:46pm |
re: #28 Gus 802
Hey. The majority of Americans "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" ergo since the majority of Americans think Wikileaks is harmful to America it must be a bad position to take.
Basically that means since the majority of American "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" the majority must be wrong about everything.
Seems like a rather flawed conclusion. What Barrett Brown is really saying is that the majority is only drawing flawed conclusions (using the creationism analogy) only when they contradict his own views. I doubt he came to that conclusion when Obama won the election in 2008.
What Barret Brown is doing is starting to back track ('What I really meant...')
He seems like an OK guy, overall. I do believe on this he took the wrong position. I hope he comes around.
| 31 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:51:02pm |
re: #27 Rightwingconspirator
Next year, put the train yards on your calendar. East LA, but fun to see the trees come off the train beds. And, shop price. Way fun.
| 32 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:52:09pm |
re: #30 researchok
What Barret Brown is doing is starting to back track ('What I really meant...')
He seems like an OK guy, overall. I do believe on this he took the wrong position. I hope he comes around.
I doubt it. It's not my intent to have anyone come around since most people would expect us "to come around" as well.
| 33 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:52:12pm |
re: #20 wozzablog
Get well soon. Back problems suck.
| 34 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:53:39pm |
re: #29 researchok
You were and are, right. Period.
Your critics can only dance for so long.
I big to deffer.
Damm god snotch.
| 35 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:53:46pm |
re: #32 Gus 802
I doubt it. It's not my intent to have anyone come around since most people would expect us "to come around" as well.
True- but I know I can say I've come around on more than one issue. I suspect you'd say the same thing.
You never know.
| 36 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:54:24pm |
| 37 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:54:33pm |
re: #35 researchok
True- but I know I can say I've come around on more than one issue. I suspect you'd say the same thing.
You never know.
I hnav to.
| 38 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:54:48pm |
| 39 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:55:17pm |
Left this comment:
re: #3 Gus 802
Mr. Brown states, "As for the small percentage of Americans that are in favor Wikileaks that Mr. Trouts thinks is important enough to cite in a short essay on the subject, I would merely note that half of Americans consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution."
According to Gallup, 67 percent of American support the repeal of DADT. Does this mean they have come to flawed conclusion simply because they are in the majority? Are we to conclude then that the majority of people who support the repeal of DADT are also creationists?
| 40 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:55:19pm |
re: #28 Gus 802
Hey. The majority of Americans "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" ergo since the majority of Americans think Wikileaks is harmful to America it must be a bad position to take.
Basically that means since the majority of American "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" the majority must be wrong about everything.
Seems like a rather flawed conclusion. What Barrett Brown is really saying is that the majority is only drawing flawed conclusions (using the creationism analogy) only when they contradict his own views. I doubt he came to that conclusion when Obama won the election in 2008.
I hope you won't interpret it as taking BB's side in this debate, but the above, of course, is not the argument he is making. Not even close.
Need I really explain? OK: BB's example shows that the majority of population is not necessarily right (hence pointing to the majority's opinion as some sort of proof is an incorrect mode of argumentation). It in no way implies that the majority cannot be right. It's not an offense (the majority thinks so therefore KT is wrong), it's a defense (so what if the majority thinks so, it can be wrong).
| 41 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:55:38pm |
re: #28 Gus 802
Hey. The majority of Americans "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" ergo since the majority of Americans think Wikileaks is harmful to America it must be a bad position to take.
Basically that means since the majority of American "consider creationism to be more valid that the theory of evolution" the majority must be wrong about everything.
Seems like a rather flawed conclusion. What Barrett Brown is really saying is that the majority is only drawing flawed conclusions (using the creationism analogy) only when they contradict his own views. I doubt he came to that conclusion when Obama won the election in 2008.
Just the usual reluctance to admit error.
| 42 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:56:23pm |
re: #40 Sergey Romanov
I hope you won't interpret it as taking BB's side in this debate, but the above, of course, is not the argument he is making. Not even close.
Need I really explain? OK: BB's example shows that the majority of population is not necessarily right (hence pointing to the majority's opinion as some sort of proof is an incorrect mode of argumentation). It in no way implies that the majority cannot be right. It's not an offense (the majority thinks so therefore KT is wrong), it's a defense (so what if the majority thinks so, it can be wrong).
OK. Then if that's the case than the majority could be wrong about DADT.
| 44 |
jamesfirecat Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:57:38pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
OK. Then if that's the case than the majority could be wrong about DADT.
Yeah it could be...
That's why we should look at each argument based on its own merits rather than considering who/how many people support it...
| 45 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:58:00pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
Of course. What's the point?
| 46 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:58:50pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
OK. Then if that's the case than the majority could be wrong about DADT.
That may be true, but surely you did understand BB point?
| 47 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:00:46pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
OK. Then if that's the case than the majority could be wrong about DADT.
Of course they could, the appeal to population is never a good argument, although it can be a reality in a democracy.
Right and wrong should be determined by how it affects the society, not by how many lean in a specific direction. If that wasn't the case then civil rights would never have gotten out of the '60s.
| 48 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:00:56pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
OK. Then if that's the case than the majority could be wrong about DADT.
Barret Brown is deflecting.
The issue was and is about the ethics and morality of Assange and Wikileaks. It isn't about numbers or popular opinion.
| 49 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:02:03pm |
re: #48 researchok
Barret Brown is deflecting.
The issue was and is about the ethics and morality of Assange and Wikileaks. It isn't about numbers or popular opinion.
Is he deflecting or removing a faulty argument from the playing field?
| 50 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:02:16pm |
re: #48 researchok
Barret Brown is deflecting.
The issue was and is about the ethics and morality of Assange and Wikileaks. It isn't about numbers or popular opinion.
I 'm more interested in the law, those who broke it should be held accountable.
| 51 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:03:26pm |
re: #48 researchok
Barret Brown is deflecting.
The issue was and is about the ethics and morality of Assange and Wikileaks. It isn't about numbers or popular opinion.
If its about ethics and morals, who's do we use?
| 52 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:03:39pm |
re: #49 b_sharp
Is he deflecting or removing a faulty argument from the playing field?
He is deflecting, in my opinion. The debate is morphing into anything but what it should be about.
| 53 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:03:43pm |
Just a suggestion, but how about the discussion include BB instead of being about him in his absence?
| 54 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:04:41pm |
re: #51 ozbloke
If its about ethics and morals, who's do we use?
That is subject of fair debate.
That said, tearing down is not a moral starting position.
| 55 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:05:00pm |
re: #48 researchok
He may or may not be deflecting, but in this case he is responding to KT's point about only 22% of population being supporters (the "fringe"). Listen, I have my own beef with BB in regard to his acceptance of "FSB did it" conspiracy theory, so I think he uses faulty reasoning from time to time (and who doesn't?). In this case his argument is at least proper.
| 56 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:05:10pm |
re: #53 b_sharp
Just a suggestion, but how about the discussion include BB instead of being about him in his absence?
Give him a call! I'd be delighted if he were here.
| 57 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:06:08pm |
re: #51 ozbloke
If its about ethics and morals, who's do we use?
Ah, there's the rub.
If you're religious, you look to a book, otherwise you spend time thinking about it as rationally as possible. Some do both.
| 58 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:06:13pm |
re: #46 ozbloke
That may be true, but surely you did understand BB point?
Yes, that the majority can sometimes be wrong especially when their position is in opposition to my POV.
Then if the majority can be wrong as illustrated with the creationism argument it negates the use of polling to bolster a case against Assange.
If that's the case then why use any polling data to support an argument at all?
| 59 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:07:08pm |
And on a side note...
| 60 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:07:56pm |
re: #55 Sergey Romanov
He may or may not be deflecting, but in this case he is responding to KT's point about only 22% of population being supporters (the "fringe"). Listen, I have my own beef with BB in regard to his acceptance of "FSB did it" conspiracy theory, so I think he uses faulty reasoning from time to time (and who doesn't?). In this case his argument is at least proper.
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
Nevertheless, the argument cannot be allowed to get too far off track. KT's intent (I believe) was not to turn this into a numbers game- recall, he was responding to BB.
I'm just firmly of the belief that the Assange/Wikileaks debate stay centered.
| 61 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:08:31pm |
re: #54 researchok
That is subject of fair debate.
That said, tearing down is not a moral starting position.
No but we can look at the Phelp's crew and agree its disgusting, but apparently they are not breaking any laws, they are allowed to continue.
Its the rule of law that we should follow, seriously.
Morals and ethics are emotional, we live under laws.
| 62 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:08:34pm |
re: #58 Gus 802
Yes, that the majority can sometimes be wrong especially when their position is in opposition to my POV.
Then if the majority can be wrong as illustrated with the creationism argument it negates the use of polling to bolster a case against Assange.
If that's the case then why use any polling data to support an argument at all?
The only argument that polling can help with is when the question is how many support an issue.
| 63 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:08:50pm |
Person A: I should remind you that 67 percent of Americans believe that DADT should be repealed.
Person B: That may be the case but I will remind you that the majority of American also think that creationism is more valid than evolution!
| 64 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:08:55pm |
| 65 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:09:18pm |
re: #62 b_sharp
The only argument that polling can help with is when the question is how many support
anYOUR issue.
FTFY
| 66 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:09:37pm |
re: #50 ozbloke
I 'm more interested in the law, those who broke it should be held accountable.
The law may or may not be up to date.
The law is also imperfect. Think OJ.
| 67 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:09:58pm |
re: #58 Gus 802
Polling gives us people's opinions. You can use these opinions e.g. to discourage a politician from supporting WL. But whether WL is correct or wrong, bad or good - everybody decides for themselves on the basis of other arguments, not polling.
| 68 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:10:01pm |
re: #58 Gus 802
Yes, that the majority can sometimes be wrong especially when their position is in opposition to my POV.
Then if the majority can be wrong as illustrated with the creationism argument it negates the use of polling to bolster a case against Assange.
If that's the case then why use any polling data to support an argument at all?
Dam lies and statistics...
| 71 |
Mr Pancakes Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:10:59pm |
re: #66 researchok
The law may or may not be up to date.
The law is also imperfect. Think OJ.
FREE OJ!!!!!
/
| 72 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:11:24pm |
re: #68 ozbloke
Dam lies and statistics...
Good then. So from this we can draw a conclusion and no longer use polling data to support our case on a particular policy issue.
//
| 73 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:11:54pm |
re: #64 Killgore Trout
Bradley Manning is not Rossa Parks.
I don't know why anyone would think he is.
| 74 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:12:14pm |
| 75 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:12:26pm |
re: #61 ozbloke
No but we can look at the Phelp's crew and agree its disgusting, but apparently they are not breaking any laws, they are allowed to continue.
Its the rule of law that we should follow, seriously.
Morals and ethics are emotional, we live under laws.
No argument.
I see Phelps and company as disgusting.
I see Assange and company as even more revolting. Certainly, they are more dangerous.
| 76 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:13:09pm |
re: #66 researchok
The law may or may not be up to date.
The law is also imperfect. Think OJ.
Then that is an issue for the Govt.
I'm against taking up pitchforks against those who I have an idealogical argument with.
| 77 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:13:42pm |
re: #70 Reginald Perrin
Hope you are well.
Know it's your busy season.
Take care of yourself, OK?
*big ole smooch*
| 78 |
Varek Raith Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:14:08pm |
Question for supporters of Assange/Wikileaks.
Where do you draw the line?
When should classified materials stay secret?
What/Who determines whether a specified classified material should be leaked?
Why are you comfortable with Wikileaks being a secretive organization who answers to no one and can release classified materials on a whim?
| 79 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:15:29pm |
re: #72 Gus 802
It's an allowed trick in purely political debates presentations. Because pols would want to try to vote in accordance with their constituency's wishes. But it doesn't say much about what's morally right, or what's good for security.
| 80 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:16:35pm |
re: #72 Gus 802
Good then. So from this we can draw a conclusion and no longer use polling data to support our case on a particular policy issue.
//
Gus,
I have read you too long, you are arguing from emotion.
Hey I understand where you are coming from.
But you do know statistics can be used by anyone for any thing.
They are a reflection of what and how people were asked a question, and how that question was phrased.
Its not like before wikileaks came along you accepted as fact a poll.
| 81 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:17:10pm |
| 82 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:18:28pm |
re: #76 ozbloke
Then that is an issue for the Govt.
I'm against taking up pitchforks against those who I have an idealogical argument with.
So am I.
| 83 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:19:15pm |
re: #75 researchok
No argument.
I see Phelps and company as disgusting.
I see Assange and company as even more revolting. Certainly, they are more dangerous.
But we have had to come to a place where we are at least somewhat accepting, as it is their first amendment right.
As I said, charge those who can be charged, if the laws are failing you, then deal with that.
| 84 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:19:28pm |
re: #78 Varek Raith
Question for supporters of Assange/Wikileaks.
Where do you draw the line?
When should classified materials stay secret?
What/Who determines whether a specified classified material should be leaked?
Why are you comfortable with Wikileaks being a secretive organization who answers to no one and can release classified materials on a whim?
Lazardo is not here I think.
/
| 85 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:20:42pm |
re: #83 ozbloke
But we have had to come to a place where we are at least somewhat accepting, as it is their first amendment right.
As I said, charge those who can be charged, if the laws are failing you, then deal with that.
The argument is about ethics and morals.
How to deal with them is a legal issue. They are not the same.
| 86 |
Reginald Perrin Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:22:06pm |
re: #77 Floral Giraffe
Hope you are well.
Know it's your busy season.
Take care of yourself, OK?
*big ole smooch*
It appears my busy season will be lasting until early summer, there will be no rest for the wicked for quite a while longer.
| 87 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:23:38pm |
re: #78 Varek Raith
Question for supporters of Assange/Wikileaks.
Where do you draw the line?
When should classified materials stay secret?
What/Who determines whether a specified classified material should be leaked?
Why are you comfortable with Wikileaks being a secretive organization who answers to no one and can release classified materials on a whim?
I'll play.
1. I draw the line at the law.
2. Umm, all of the time, but there is a responsibility on those who have such info to keep it secure.
3. Apparently the Govt.
4. They are not secret, as we are here discussing them, and we know the founder. If they answer to no one, then that will be a short coming of the law.
| 88 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:25:37pm |
re: #86 Reginald Perrin
It appears my busy season will be lasting until early summer, there will be no rest for the wicked for quite a while longer.
Can't you just take a vacation and let a customer or two go? Going that hard that long will burn you out.
| 89 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:25:52pm |
re: #82 researchok
So am I.
Just tell them they're arguing from an emotional viewpoint. That should go over well.
| 90 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:26:07pm |
re: #86 Reginald Perrin
That's good news. Keeps you funded & out of trouble, for the most part.
*smooch, softly*
| 91 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:26:09pm |
re: #85 researchok
The argument is about ethics and morals.
How to deal with them is a legal issue. They are not the same.
You may be discussing wikileaks on the basis of ethics and morals, I am discussing it about the rule of law.
That is ok isn't it.
Im happy for you to come at it from any way you want.
| 93 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:32:10pm |
Not sure if it's been posted here yet but here's a "leaked" documentary on wikileaks.
| 94 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:32:45pm |
re: #92 Gus 802
Which means some people will cite the first poll while ignoring the second poll. And vice versa.
| 95 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:33:01pm |
re: #93 recusancy
Not sure if it's been posted here yet but here's a "leaked" documentary on wikileaks.
Anymore leaks and we will need Joe the plumber.
| 96 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:33:39pm |
re: #95 ozbloke
Anymore leaks and we will need Joe the plumber.
He can't even fix the leaks in his logic.
| 97 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:34:06pm |
re: #92 Gus 802
Right, because that's purely political context - elected politicians voting (or not voting) with the majority of the constituents. If we were discussing a congressional plan to make some anti-WL legislation, the polls would be relevant. They're irrelevant when discussing the merits of the case.
| 98 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:34:32pm |
re: #96 Dark_Falcon
He can't even fix the leaks in his logic.
Yeah but I heard he had to cut his hourly rates, you know what a good plumber costs!
| 99 |
Kronocide Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:35:30pm |
Wow that band was smokin, thanks Charles. Gotta have to investigate them more.
| 100 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:35:59pm |
re: #94 Gus 802
Which means some people will cite the first poll while ignoring the second poll. And vice versa.
That second poll doesn't ask about the taxes on the rich specifically like the first one did. So no, it didn't change.
| 101 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:37:14pm |
re: #100 recusancy
That second poll doesn't ask about the taxes on the rich specifically like the first one did. So no, it didn't change.
The question asked by Gallup was for ALL Americans. That would include tax cuts for the rich.
| 102 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:37:19pm |
re: #90 Floral Giraffe
That's good news. Keeps you funded & out of trouble, for the most part.
*smooch, softly*
Funded is good, out of trouble, just MIGHT be a problem. LOL!
You'll be fine. *smooch*
| 103 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:38:38pm |
McSpiff is here ;-)
| 104 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:39:19pm |
re: #101 Gus 802
The question asked by Gallup was for ALL Americans. That would include tax cuts for the rich.
No because the dem's plan that didn't include keeping the cuts in above 250k would have been for all Americans. I assume you're aware how progressive taxation works. You're really reaching on this one.
| 105 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:39:53pm |
| 106 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:40:49pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
No, he flounced.
That's why I wrote the above. Just now:
1Comment rated by: McSpiff
| 107 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:41:29pm |
re: #101 Gus 802
The question asked by Gallup was for ALL Americans. That would include tax cuts for the rich.
Always did include tax cuts for the rich, just not on all of their income.
Progressive taxation, how does it work?
| 108 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:42:06pm |
re: #104 recusancy
No because the dem's plan that didn't include keeping the cuts in above 250k would have been for all Americans. I assume you're aware how progressive taxation works. You're really reaching on this one.
Here let me show you this:
Tax Cuts Should: Continue for All: 26 percent.
A. Extend the federal income tax cuts passed in 2001 and 2003 for all Americans for two years: 66 percent.
The first question is the same question posed by BOTH CBS and Gallup. Should tax cuts continue for ALL.
| 109 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:42:36pm |
re: #107 goddamnedfrank
Always did include tax cuts for the rich, just not on all of their income.
Progressive taxation, how does it work?
I'm not going to get into the tax cut debate.
| 110 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:43:40pm |
re: #100 recusancy
That second poll doesn't ask about the taxes on the rich specifically like the first one did. So no, it didn't change.
How about this poll?
Economists: Extend Bush tax cuts for everyone
With income tax rates set to go up on Dec. 31, Congress is hotly debating what to do next. But most economists agree: Keep them where they are.
One option, to let the tax cuts passed during the Bush administration expire for only the richest 3% of taxpayers while renewing them for everyone else, is popular among Democrats and the choice of the Obama administration.
But a majority of a panel of leading economists surveyed by CNNMoney.com said that the tax cuts should be renewed for everyone.
| 111 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:44:31pm |
re: #110 researchok
How about this poll?
Hey! We can have polls on this polls.
Question: Do you hate these poll results?
//
| 112 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:45:53pm |
re: #108 Gus 802
Here let me show you this:
Tax Cuts Should: Continue for All: 26 percent.
A. Extend the federal income tax cuts passed in 2001 and 2003 for all Americans for two years: 66 percent.
The first question is the same question posed by BOTH CBS and Gallup. Should tax cuts continue for ALL.
They gave the option of only extending for < $250k in the first one. It was all or none in the second one.
| 113 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:46:07pm |
re: #111 Gus 802
Hey! We can have polls on this polls.
Question: Do you hate these poll results?
//
Yeah...Besides who would want to hear what economists might have to say.
I mean, we could ask doctors about vaccinations or we could rely on Jenny McCarthy. She looked into it, you know?
| 114 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:47:09pm |
re: #112 recusancy
They gave the option of only extending for < $250k in the first one. It was all or none in the second one.
Well, I'm not seeing a question for greater than 250K either.
| 115 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:48:21pm |
re: #113 researchok
Yeah...Besides who would want to hear what economists might have to say.
I mean, we could ask doctors about vaccinations or we could rely on Jenny McCarthy. She looked into it, you know?
Clearly those economists are in the pockets of big business and the rich!
/
| 116 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:48:42pm |
re: #110 researchok
How about this poll?
I'm not disagreeing that deficit increasing helps the economy in the short term. Stimulus stimulates. I'm arguing about Gus's misreading of a poll.
| 117 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:49:28pm |
re: #116 recusancy
I'm not disagreeing that deficit increasing helps the economy in the short term. Stimulus stimulates. I'm arguing about Gus's misreading of a poll.
I'm not misreading it. It's the same question: should tax cuts be extended for all?
| 118 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:50:10pm |
re: #113 researchok
Yeah...Besides who would want to hear what economists might have to say.
I mean, we could ask doctors about vaccinations or we could rely on Jenny McCarthy. She looked into it, you know?
The only advantage she has over doctors is in the looks department. But that's a big advantage in today's media culture.
| 119 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:50:15pm |
re: #117 Gus 802
I'm not misreading it. It's the same question: should tax cuts be extended for all?
Well, before I answer definitively, I'm going to check with Jenny.
//
| 120 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:50:43pm |
re: #119 researchok
Well, before I answer definitively, I'm going to check with Jenny.
//
Who's Jenny?
| 122 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:51:19pm |
re: #118 Dark_Falcon
The only advantage she has over doctors is in the looks department. But that's a big advantage in today's media culture.
My dentist has an assistant that makes Jenny look like the chimp on the right on the post upstairs.
| 123 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:51:30pm |
re: #117 Gus 802
I'm not misreading it. It's the same question: should tax cuts be extended for all?
Seriously? Do you not answer differently when given more options? Are you really not understanding this?
| 124 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:52:26pm |
re: #123 recusancy
Seriously? Do you not answer differently when given more options? Are you really not understanding this?
The Gallup poll is done after the Obama/GOP tax cut deal. Are you seriously not understand that?
| 125 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:52:31pm |
re: #120 Gus 802
Who's Jenny?
That will be DOCTOR JENNY to you.
McCarthy.
And she's been on Oprah and Ricky Lake.
| 126 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:53:04pm |
re: #122 researchok
My dentist has an assistant that makes Jenny look like the chimp on the right on the post upstairs.
That's actually an orangutan .
| 127 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:54:04pm |
re: #126 Dark_Falcon
That's actually an orangutan .
OK
Tough for me to focus- I'm thinking of that dental assistant...
| 128 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:54:39pm |
re: #86 Reginald Perrin
It appears my busy season will be lasting until early summer, there will be no rest for the wicked for quite a while longer.
Miss you. Hope your busy season is way profitable.
| 129 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:55:02pm |
re: #124 Gus 802
The Gallup poll is done after the Obama/GOP tax cut deal. Are you seriously not understand that?
I do. So what? One poll gives 4 options. The other 2 options. It's all or none on the second one (pertaining to the deal that was struck) and levels of nuance on the first one (pertaining to the options being discussed at the time).
| 130 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:55:05pm |
re: #125 researchok
That will be DOCTOR JENNY to you.
McCarthy.
And she's been on Oprah and Ricky Lake.
Oh yeah. Ms. McCarthy is rather popular over at the Huffington Post.
| 131 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:55:38pm |
re: #129 recusancy
I do. So what? One poll gives 4 options. The other 2 options. It's all or none on the second one (pertaining to the deal that was struck) and levels of nuance on the first one (pertaining to the options being discussed at the time).
I'm done talking about this with you. Thanks for your input.
| 132 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:55:54pm |
re: #130 Gus 802
Oh yeah. Ms. McCarthy is rather popular over at the Huffington Post.
And I'll bet she's an Assange supporter as well.
Call me psychic.
| 133 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:57:30pm |
re: #132 researchok
And I'll bet she's an Assange supporter as well.
Call me psychic.
See. I already proved my point somewhat. People that want to let the tax cuts expire for the rich hate that Gallup poll.
| 134 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:58:58pm |
re: #133 Gus 802
See. I already proved my point somewhat. People that want to let the tax cuts expire for the rich hate that Gallup poll.
Look at the bright side.
I have the same T shirt as you, apparently.
| 135 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:59:29pm |
re: #133 Gus 802
See. I already proved my point somewhat. People that want to let the tax cuts expire for the rich hate that Gallup poll.
I don't hate it. I would vote with the majority on both polls.
| 138 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:02:29pm |
You know what I miss- During the LGF 'changeover' there was some really smart debate here.
We need more of that.
| 139 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:05:51pm |
re: #129 recusancy
I do. So what? One poll gives 4 options. The other 2 options. It's all or none on the second one (pertaining to the deal that was struck) and levels of nuance on the first one (pertaining to the options being discussed at the time).
All these polls are bullshit because they set up a false dilemma. It's all a bunch of know nothing idiocy designed to misinform people about the most basic fact about how taxes are levied, on tiers of income. Instead they present it as an all or nothing proposal on people/households that make certain amounts.
| 140 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:06:36pm |
re: #139 goddamnedfrank
All these polls are bullshit because they set up a false dilemma. It's all a bunch of know nothing idiocy designed to misinform people about the most basic fact about how taxes are levied, on tiers of income. Instead they present it as an all or nothing proposal on people/households that make certain amounts.
Lots of truth to that.
| 141 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:08:24pm |
re: #138 researchok
You know what I miss- During the LGF 'changeover' there was some really smart debate here.
We need more of that.
That's tough to do. With few exceptions, people prefer to blog with people who agree with them. Smart Debate is difficult and uncomfortable for most people. Those who find it so and are still partisan tend to retreat into "ELEVENTY!!1" slogans as a way to avoid thinking.
| 142 |
recusancy Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:08:50pm |
re: #139 goddamnedfrank
All these polls are bullshit because they set up a false dilemma. It's all a bunch of know nothing idiocy designed to misinform people about the most basic fact about how taxes are levied, on tiers of income. Instead they present it as an all or nothing proposal on people/households that make certain amounts.
True, most political debate seem to hinge on false dilemma's nowadays.
| 143 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:11:22pm |
re: #141 Dark_Falcon
That's tough to do. With few exceptions, people prefer to blog with people who agree with them. Smart Debate is difficult and uncomfortable for most people. Those who find it so and are still partisan tend to retreat into "ELEVENTY!!1" slogans as a way to avoid thinking.
True- but this place was always different.
It still can be, but it seems less frequent nowadays.
| 144 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:11:46pm |
re: #138 researchok
You know what I miss- During the LGF 'changeover' there was some really smart debate here.
We need more of that.
You want to know something funny? I just found myself screaming. First time in over two years at LGF I felt like just screaming. It wasn't too loud.
| 145 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:14:40pm |
re: #144 Gus 802
You want to know something funny? I just found myself screaming. First time in over two years at LGF I felt like just screaming. It wasn't too loud.
I hear that. You get over it.
I predict the pendulum effect, if for no other reason that CJ just can't be corralled.
| 146 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:22:15pm |
re: #145 researchok
I hear that. You get over it.
I predict the pendulum effect, if for no other reason that CJ just can't be corralled.
Hold the line! Keep it in the center.
| 147 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:30:25pm |
re: #146 Gus 802
Hold the line! Keep it in the center.
Yup.
CJ was right to leave to find his own way. The GOP sold itself for the conservative and religious silver. I never faulted him for that and in fact, I supported his stand.
Still I do believe as always, he rides his own pony. He'll find the middle, infuriate everyone at times and create yet another really influential community.
| 149 |
b_sharp Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:41:30pm |
re: #139 goddamnedfrank
All these polls are bullshit because they set up a false dilemma. It's all a bunch of know nothing idiocy designed to misinform people about the most basic fact about how taxes are levied, on tiers of income. Instead they present it as an all or nothing proposal on people/households that make certain amounts.
Are you talking push poll?
| 150 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:42:45pm |
re: #148 recusancy
Everyone thinks they are the middle.
That sounds like a pragmatist everybody hates those bastards!1!
| 151 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:43:58pm |
re: #147 researchok
Yup.
CJ was right to leave to find his own way. The GOP sold itself for the conservative and religious silver. I never faulted him for that and in fact, I supported his stand.
Still I do believe as always, he rides his own pony. He'll find the middle, infuriate everyone at times and create yet another really influential community.
Help! I'm going up against a professional writer with fans!
//
| 153 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:48:17pm |
re: #152 Gus 802
Tonight's tally. So far I'm a) emotional and now b) dishonest.
You're tired and stressed out.
| 154 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:49:02pm |
re: #152 Gus 802
Tonight's tally. So far I'm a) emotional and now b) dishonest.
Being emotional is not a bad thing, not in my book.
| 155 |
Gus Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:50:17pm |
re: #153 researchok
You're tired and stressed out.
I'm not. I'm just expressing myself. What I find offensive though is that I have not ascribed an adjective to anyone in the context of these comments.
| 156 |
researchok Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:52:21pm |
re: #155 Gus 802
I'm not. I'm just expressing myself. What I find offensive though is that I have not ascribed an adjective to anyone in the context of these comments.
As they say, still waters run deep.
I respect that. A lot.
| 157 |
APox Mon, Dec 13, 2010 11:25:51am |
Charles, thanks so much for posting this video. I fell in love with this band.
I found them on NPR Music Tiny Desk here:
And I have to say that they are god damn amazing. I had goose bumps the whole way through this performance, she has an outstanding voice. She reminds me of a female Jeff Buckley with her range. Beautiful.
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