FCC Set to Vote on 'Net Neutrality' Rules (or, a Huge Windfall to Wireless Providers)

FCC Set to Vote on ‘Net Neutrality’ Rules (or, a Huge Windfall to Wireless Providers)

PoliticsDecember 2010 • Views: 16,389

The FCC is getting ready to pass a set of complex and controversial rules regulating net neutrality, that will create two classes of Internet connections — one for wired Internet providers and one for wireless providers. While it’s fairly good news for those who believe there shouldn’t be “service tiers” on web connections, the wireless regulations will allow providers like AT&T and Verizon to set limits on web access that will let them extract the maximum amount of money from both consumers and commercial websites — and after all, isn’t that what US politics is all about?

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65 comments

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:11:48am

I guess I need to take the time to understand this.

BTW, this is why Americans don't get worked up about this kind of stuff. They don't always understand it...until it shows up in the mail box in digits in a bill.

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:14:59am

is LGF a commercial website?

lawhawk Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:21:19am

Net neutrality is a great catchphrase, but does anyone actually understand what's going on here, particularly with the wireless providers?

It looks like AT&T, Verizon, Sprint and other wireless providers' lobbyists did a bangup job in protecting their very lucrative wireless plans because there are just enough loopholes to thwart innovators like Skype from eating into their business. From the article:

The companies have said the rules would provide some regulatory certainty. In private, they have acknowledged the proposal could have been much worse. If approved, they “will give some assurances to the companies that are building Web applications — companies like Netflix, Skype and Google — that they will get even treatment on broadband networks,” Ms. Arbogast said.
But a wide swath of public interest groups have lambasted the proposal as “fake net neutrality” and said it was rife with loopholes. One group, Public Knowledge, said that instead of providing clear protections, the F.C.C. “created a vague and shifting landscape open to interpretation. Consumers deserved better.”

Notably, the rules are watered down for wireless Net providers like AT&T and Verizon, which would be prohibited from blocking Web sites, but not from blocking applications or services unless those applications directly compete with providers’ voice and video products, like Skype.

F.C.C. officials said there were technological reasons for the wireless distinctions, and that they would continue to closely monitor the medium.

Citing the wireless proposal, Senator Al Franken, Democrat of Minnesota, said over the weekend that the F.C.C. was effectively allowing discrimination on the mobile Net, a fast-growing sector.

“Maybe you like Google Maps. Well, tough,” Mr. Franken said on Saturday on the Senate floor. “If the F.C.C. passes this weak rule, Verizon will be able to cut off access to the Google Maps app on your phone and force you to use their own mapping program, Verizon Navigator, even if it is not as good. And even if they charge money, when Google Maps is free.”

I've got to agree with Sen. Franken (I know!). Having just ponied up for a new smart phone and apps, VZ has the Navigator, which charges for the GPS service, whereas Google maps (or mapquest) have similar free functions. If VZ decides that the competition is too much (claiming that too much bandwith is going to those apps), they'll insist on users sticking to VZ.

The rules should have been consistent across the board - for wireless and standard telecom. Offering up different rules means that a further distortion of the marketplace will occur and not in a good way for consumers or innovators.

shutdown Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:22:56am

re: #1 EmmmieG

I guess I need to take the time to understand this.

BTW, this is why Americans don't get worked up about this kind of stuff. They don't always understand it...until it shows up in the mail box in digits in a bill.

My understanding is that wireless providers will be able to charge based on the type of service being accessed, along with the amount of data transmitted.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:23:52am

re: #3 lawhawk

Verizon? Ew.

lawhawk Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:24:58am

re: #5 JasonA

AT&T service in the NYC metro area is absolutely atrocious (see Consumer Reports for just how bad things are with AT&T here), with Sprint not that far behind.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:25:12am

re: #4 imp_62

My understanding is that wireless providers will be able to charge based on the type of service being accessed, along with the amount of data transmitted.

I love how we pay $30ish a month for data already, but they want to charge us extra for tethering, which is basically just using the data that we're already paying for in a different way.

Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:25:32am

re: #3 lawhawk

Yes, that's right, these regulations essentially let the big wireless corporations kneecap their competitors. That's why I called it a huge windfall for wireless providers, because the future of the web is going to be more and more tied to wireless connectivity. These companies know that, and they've traded off the ability to set tiers on wired connections for a better long-term wireless deal.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:25:40am

re: #6 lawhawk

AT&T service in the NYC metro area is absolutely atrocious (see Consumer Reports for just how bad things are with AT&T here), with Sprint not that far behind.

I'm a T-Mobile man.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:26:24am

re: #8 Charles

Yes, that's right, these regulations essentially let the big wireless corporations kneecap their competitors. That's why I called it a huge windfall for wireless providers, because the future of the web is going to be more and more tied to wireless connectivity. These companies know that, and they've traded off the ability to set tiers on wired connections for a better long-term deal.

And just when I was giving switching to Clear some serious thought.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:26:35am

But, but, but...

What if you pay for a wired connection and then access it using a wireless device?

lawhawk Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:27:46am

re: #7 JasonA

Well, they want us to pay for the installation, maintenance, and upgrade of those 3G/4G systems - so they look for ways to sock it to you. If you recently upgraded to new phones, you'll find that you can't get a smartphone without getting a data plan, so the minimum increase in monthly cost is $15 over what you're paying previously - all for the privilege of having a smart phone (even if you never use any of those features). If you text message, that's a separate cost, even though it should be rolled into the data portion of your plan, but wireless providers have found they can make serious money on those text messages.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:27:49am

re: #11 Alouette

But, but, but...

What if you pay for a wired connection and then access it using a wireless device?

That's a whole different can of worms. You're just using the wifi coming from your cable modem/DSL line, so there you do have net neutrality.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:28:32am

re: #12 lawhawk

Well, they want us to pay for the installation, maintenance, and upgrade of those 3G/4G systems - so they look for ways to sock it to you. If you recently upgraded to new phones, you'll find that you can't get a smartphone without getting a data plan, so the minimum increase in monthly cost is $15 over what you're paying previously - all for the privilege of having a smart phone (even if you never use any of those features). If you text message, that's a separate cost, even though it should be rolled into the data portion of your plan, but wireless providers have found they can make serious money on those text messages.

Yeah, they make ridiculous profits off of those.

Kragar Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:29:14am

GOP blocks Preventing Child Marriage Act of 2010.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:29:37am

re: #11 Alouette

But, but, but...

What if you pay for a wired connection and then access it using a wireless device?

My brain hurts.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:30:04am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GOP blocks Preventing Child Marriage Act of 2010.

Fuck. I was totally prepared for an Onion story, not for that. :(

lawhawk Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:30:38am

re: #8 Charles

To be clear - Verizon has both wireless and standard communications; so does Sprint and AT&T. All have seen declining profits from their standard landline services as people transition to wireless and cable/FiOS packages.

By way of comparison, does anyone know how European or Japanese telecom handles this issue?

Frankly, I think all telecom should be restricted from doing what the loopholes would enable the wireless providers to do.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:31:49am

re: #16 EmmmieG

My brain hurts.

When you have your iPad connected to your homes wifi connection, assuming it's coming from a cable modem or DSL line, then they can't give priority to certain sites or applications. If you're using the 3G then yes, they can.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:33:22am

re: #19 JasonA

When you have your iPad connected to your homes wifi connection, assuming it's coming from a cable modem or DSL line, then they can't give priority to certain sites or applications. If you're using the 3G then yes, they can.

Is that the reason Netflix takes so long to load on my Blu-ray?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:34:03am

re: #19 JasonA

When you have your iPad connected to your homes wifi connection, assuming it's coming from a cable modem or DSL line, then they can't give priority to certain sites or applications. If you're using the 3G then yes, they can.

See, it's tempting here not to care, because we don't have any wireless devices. Any.

Not an ipad, not an iphone, not a notebook or an ebook or a laptop.

People who come over are a little frustrated that we don't have a password to give them to access internet in our house, but after my sister lost an entire laptop to a child with a glass of water, it really cemented our desires to stick with large desktop computers. With big monitors.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:35:25am

re: #20 Alouette

Is that the reason Netflix takes so long to load on my Blu-ray?

I don't think they've started doing this yet.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:36:54am

re: #21 EmmmieG

See, it's tempting here not to care, because we don't have any wireless devices. Any.

Not an ipad, not an iphone, not a notebook or an ebook or a laptop.

People who come over are a little frustrated that we don't have a password to give them to access internet in our house, but after my sister lost an entire laptop to a child with a glass of water, it really cemented our desires to stick with large desktop computers. With big monitors.

You should care. Clear is offering unlimited 4G internet for just $45 a month, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's going to be where things are heading.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:38:44am

re: #21 EmmmieG

See, it's tempting here not to care, because we don't have any wireless devices. Any.

Not an ipad, not an iphone, not a notebook or an ebook or a laptop.

People who come over are a little frustrated that we don't have a password to give them to access internet in our house, but after my sister lost an entire laptop to a child with a glass of water, it really cemented our desires to stick with large desktop computers. With big monitors.

I think you are confusing two kinds of "wireless." The typical sort of wireless that a person would have in their home, a router with a wireless, is a HARD WIRED connection, usually going to a cable line or a DSL phone line.

That's not an issue right now, according to these possible new regulations, the cable provider or DSL provider cannot block access to certain sources of data, just because of the source or bandwidth.

What's being discussed here is wireless PHONE services, handheld devices that use wireless phone networks, such as 3G and such. The problem would be in your cell phone access to data sources.

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:39:33am

re: #21 EmmmieG

See, it's tempting here not to care, because we don't have any wireless devices. Any.

Not an ipad, not an iphone, not a notebook or an ebook or a laptop.

People who come over are a little frustrated that we don't have a password to give them to access internet in our house, but after my sister lost an entire laptop to a child with a glass of water, it really cemented our desires to stick with large desktop computers. With big monitors.

Your from Texas ...aren't you???LOL

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:40:43am

re: #25 reloadingisnotahobby

Your from Texas ...aren't you???LOL

Nope. Oregon/Washington.

My husband is an electrical engineer, which translates as "I know all the different kinds of ways these can break."

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:41:46am

re: #23 JasonA

You should care. Clear is offering unlimited 4G internet for just $45 a month, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's going to be where things are heading.

I care because someday it could be my problem. I don't use a cell phone to access the net now. I use my cell phone to access my kids.

However, it's the principle of the thing, isn't it?

recusancy Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:42:12am

[Link: techcrunch.com...]
"We now have the same opportunity that we faced a decade ago. We can support the FCC in putting in place “rules of the road” to enforce basic tenants or we can continue down a path that de-facto leaves these decisions in the hands of large companies with limited oversight, no transparency, and no means of enforcement. The pace of innovation today is staggering yet there are walled gardens that are becoming increasingly difficult for small startups to surmount."

b_sharp Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:42:22am

Damn computers-n-phones. We need to go back to pen, paper and smoke signals.

Pass the bong dude, my spliff disappeared somewhere.

Kragar Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:43:39am

re: #26 EmmmieG

Nope. Oregon/Washington.

My husband is an electrical engineer, which translates as "I know all the different kinds of ways these can break."

Had a neighbor get all kinds of pissy when I told him I only used a wired network in the house when he asked if he could piggback off my wireless. Yeah, sorry I wasn't able to let you pirate my bandwidth.

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:44:08am

Little factoid for you flat landers.....
Once snow has been thru a "blower" 1 or 2 time it can not be moved with
the blower again!! It requires a Shovel!
Damn.........

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:45:43am

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had a neighbor get all kinds of pissy when I told him I only used a wired network in the house when he asked if he could piggback off my wireless. Yeah, sorry I wasn't able to let you pirate my bandwidth.

I can understand having the stones to ask, but to get pissy? Crybaby.

b_sharp Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:45:51am

re: #31 reloadingisnotahobby

Little factoid for you flat landers...
Once snow has been thru a "blower" 1 or 2 time it can not be moved with
the blower again!! It requires a Shovel!
Damn...

What's a snow blower?

jaunte Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:46:03am

re: #31 reloadingisnotahobby

First day of winter temperature in Houston right now is 78.
What is this 'snow' you speak of?

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:46:03am

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had a neighbor get all kinds of pissy when I told him I only used a wired network in the house when he asked if he could piggback off my wireless. Yeah, sorry I wasn't able to let you pirate my bandwidth.

Zedushka logged on to the neighbor's unsecured wireless router when he forgot the passcode to our encrypted connection.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:47:28am

re: #29 b_sharp

Damn computers-n-phones. We need to go back to pen, paper and smoke signals.

Pass the bong dude, my spliff disappeared somewhere.

Quills. All you needed was a piece of paper, a passing bird, a pen knife, and some ashes and oil.

Oh, and something to say.

Kragar Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:47:30am

re: #33 b_sharp

What's a snow blower?

Someone who makes Frosty a very happy snowman.

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:47:44am

re: #33 b_sharp

What's a snow blower?

LOL.......Nothing at this point!
17 inches and getting HEAVY!

Walter L. Newton Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:48:10am

re: #33 b_sharp

What's a snow blower?

An Alaskan Porn Star.

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:49:21am

re: #34 jaunte

First day of winter temperature in Houston right now is 78.
What is this 'snow' you speak of?

That's not helpful at this point....But funny...

jamesfirecat Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:49:43am

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had a neighbor get all kinds of pissy when I told him I only used a wired network in the house when he asked if he could piggback off my wireless. Yeah, sorry I wasn't able to let you pirate my bandwidth.

My mom came to me for an opinion on the morality of pirating someone's bandwith even if they use "password" or "admin" as their password.

My prompt response was "its wrong... but only about as wrong as hiding in someone's trunk while they go for a drive to save yourself bus fair."

//Of course in reality its more like hitching your invisible car to the back of their car and making them tow you around.

recusancy Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:50:05am

What is Net Neutrality:

Youtube Video

b_sharp Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:51:09am

re: #34 jaunte

First day of winter temperature in Houston right now is 78.
What is this 'snow' you speak of?

I want to down ding you so much.

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:52:24am

re: #43 b_sharp

My son misses snow.......It's 65 and clear in Jacksonville!

Walter L. Newton Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:53:39am

As an aside to this conversation, I have been off an on the land line with Verizon for the last hour trying to find out a simple answer to a question (a question I figured I had the answer to already, but I wanted to make sure).

Could my simple Motorola A204 phone connect to any sort of cell phone signal in Europe? I figured the answer was no, but, wanted to make sure.

Verizon support WOULDN'T even answer the question for me. They said the holder of our account (my girlfriend) had to call them and give them the "password." A password and personal info for just a generic technical question.

So, I call three local Verizon stores. The first two stores never heard of the Motorola A204 phone, even though I got three of them from a local Verizon store.

The third store finally had someone there who knew something about Verizon, the phones they sell and the networks.

Of course, the answer was what I thought, no, this phone cannot access any cell signal in Europe.

Jerks.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:56:43am

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

Not jerks, necessarily. Verizon and Sprint use CDMA. Europe uses GSM. Two completely different kinds of networks.

b_sharp Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:57:19am

re: #44 reloadingisnotahobby

My son misses snow...It's 65 and clear in Jacksonville!

I'll send him some, we have extra.

avanti Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:57:54am

Looks like someone is developing the software to add those extra fees.Fees.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:59:26am

re: #46 JasonA

Not jerks, necessarily. Verizon and Sprint use CDMA. Europe uses GSM. Two completely different kinds of networks.

That's not my point. These people at version didn't even know what fucking phone I was talking about... even though they sold them to me not 6 months ago.

That's why they are jerks.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:00:28am

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

That's not my point. These people at version didn't even know what fucking phone I was talking about... even though they sold them to me not 6 months ago.

That's why they are jerks.

Well... yeah. Okay, I see your point there.

FreedomMoon Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:01:04am

I honestly hadn't paid any attention to these proposals until today, and I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. This is horrific! This law really has teeth and while they are trying to downplay the effect it will have, once set it place your wireless net provider be it through the Edge/3G/4G network will have greedy corporations' hands all over it. I love Google Maps! It's free, and there is no way in hell I'm going to pay for some sub-par map application that's going to cost me money. This is an outrage! Google maps does not require much bandwidth.

avanti Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:02:39am

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

Walter, the Droid 2 World Edition has been released on Verizon, and it will work.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:03:11am

re: #51 tacuba14

I honestly hadn't paid any attention to these proposals until today, and I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. This is horrific! This law really has teeth and while they are trying to downplay the effect it will have, once set it place your wireless net provider be it through the Edge/3G/4G network will have greedy corporations' hands all over it. I love Google Maps! It's free, and there is no way in hell I'm going to pay for some sub-par map application that's going to cost me money. This is an outrage! Google maps does not require much bandwidth.

The new version for Android is awesome, by the way. Zoom in on NYC, tilt the screen, and you get the fly 3D view :D

Walter L. Newton Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:04:28am

re: #52 avanti

Walter, the Droid 2 World Edition has been released on Verizon, and it will work.

I'm not that interested in having a phone that will work in Europe when I go there next month. There are certainly enough pay phones and land lines available if I needed to make a call back to the states.

I was just interested if I may have had the capability already in the little phone I had.

I hope I don't have to speak to anyone for 10 days. That's the point of a vacation.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:04:42am

re: #52 avanti

Walter, the Droid 2 World Edition has been released on Verizon, and it will work.

If he's rockin' a Motorola feature phone I don't think he's in the market for a smartphone.

avanti Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:07:16am

re: #55 JasonA

If he's rockin' a Motorola feature phone I don't think he's in the market for a smartphone.

Oddly, I did not know I needed a smart phone until I bought my Droid, now I can't live without it. I just watched a movie off my home Dish Network DVR while waiting at the MVA for example.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:08:34am

re: #56 avanti

Oddly, I did not know I needed a smart phone until I bought my Droid, now I can't live without it. I just watched a movie off my home Dish Network DVR while waiting at the MVA for example.

Yeah, I know the feeling. I'm building up the courage to root my G2.

JeffM70 Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:10:25am

Most people have no idea about net neutrality or misunderstand it like the Tea Party set who see net neutrality as an affront to free enterprise and freedom in general. It's still freedom if businesses restrict accessibility evidently.

Four More Tears Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:12:00am

re: #58 JeffM70

Most people have no idea about net neutrality or misunderstand it like the Tea Party set who see net neutrality as an affront to free enterprise and freedom in general. It's still freedom if businesses restrict accessibility evidently.

I just love how they put all this effort into building networks that can support faster speeds only to then want to slow things down. :-/

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:12:13am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GOP blocks Preventing Child Marriage Act of 2010.

Anyone want to tell me about how liberals don't care enough about oppressed Muslim women now?

FreedomMoon Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:12:25am

re: #56 avanti

Oddly, I did not know I needed a smart phone until I bought my Droid, now I can't live without it. I just watched a movie off my home Dish Network DVR while waiting at the MVA for example.

I had to google MVA to see what you were talking about. It's weird seeing it that way, I'm used to the acronym DMV here in California (I assume other places as well?) The difference being it's Department here not Administration.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:12:49am

In this deep, engrossing Engadget interview, law professor Tim Wu talks about Net Neutrality and why it matters, and why Google has been willing to abandon its commitment to an open network in a deal with Verizon. Tim coined the term Net Neutrality and has a new book coming out in November, The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, which I just read for review; not surprisingly, it's one of the best analyses of network policy and the history of telecommunications and media I've ever read.

via boingboing

JeffM70 Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:15:57am

re: #59 JasonA

I just love how they put all this effort into building networks that can support faster speeds only to then want to slow things down. :-/

It's about being allowed to control and charge for access.

JeffM70 Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:19:32am

re: #62 000G

In theory, Fox Corps. could buy AT&T and the bar access to competitors like NBC, CNN, etc., or in turn for access to those sites, charge customers a fee. The heart of net neutrality is really the free flow of information I think.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Dec 21, 2010 12:15:03pm

re: #58 JeffM70

Most people have no idea about net neutrality or misunderstand it like the Tea Party set who see net neutrality as an affront to free enterprise and freedom in general. It's still freedom if businesses restrict accessibility evidently.

Anyone who identifies themselves as part of the Tea Party will almost certainly have no idea what they're talking about re internet legislation. Gullible and stupid and angry people don't handle technical nuance well

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FCC Set to Vote on ‘Net Neutrality’ Rules (or, a Huge Windfall to Wireless Providers)

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