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152 comments
1 freetoken  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:00:01pm

MIND CONTROL!!!

NWO!!

2 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:06:16pm

The manipulator is proud to manipulate. for him it's never about the issue, it's about the power of language. The messenger makes the message. It's the real Washington DC way.

3 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:07:40pm

The numerous issues surrounding anti-AGW propaganda would be fascinating if they weren't also so damn desperately damaging and potentially fatal to the human race.

As it is, they're just damn nihilistic.

4 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:08:01pm

Heh. The Heritage Foundation. Buttholes.

5 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:08:31pm

Who's the sheeple again? It seems to me those most likely to posit the 'sheeple' meme are themselves, sheeple.

6 freetoken  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:09:59pm

Seriously, for all practical matters the denialists have won the policy debate. They never really cared about the science, just in keeping the status quo.

In the latest news on the fossil fuel front, Jordan is about to start exploiting their extensive kerogen shale (mislabeled as "oil shale") resource, a substance similar to what the US has in abundance in CO/UT. Jordan will burn it like a very low grade coal, similar to what the Estonians do with their kerogen shale.

Petroleum prices are going up because high quality oil, real oil, is scarce and the demand is rising. However, there are very large deposits of low grade oil/tar around the world, and the kerogen shale deposits, and the low grade coal deposits are abundant (though like with oil, the highest quality coal may have peaked production.) Add to that very widespread methane deposits around the world, and we have plenty of carbon left to pump into the atmosphere (though at greater cost of extraction.)

Human life is too short to appreciate how significantly we are changing the planet surface.

7 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:14:47pm

semantics again...when will we ever learn?

8 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:16:40pm

re: #3 Obdicut

The numerous issues surrounding anti-AGW propaganda would be fascinating if they weren't also so damn desperately damaging and potentially fatal to the human race.

As it is, they're just damn nihilistic.

some people probably consider God will and leave it at that...they are not nihilists

9 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:19:44pm

re: #8 albusteve

That's a incoherent and self-contradictory position, though. So nihilists and hypocrites.

10 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:29:39pm

re: #9 Obdicut

That's a incoherent and self-contradictory position, though. So nihilists and hypocrites.

maybe so...I have a hard time condemning the ignorant believers...they just don't know wtf is going on...people are overwhelmed with the subject

11 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:31:16pm

re: #10 albusteve

I'm not condemning them. I'm condemning the propagandists.

12 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:33:46pm

re: #11 Obdicut

I'm not condemning them. I'm condemning the propagandists.

as it should be...and considering the deep freeze and dangerous winter conditions all across the country, they have a lot of ammo to spend...I'm very pessimistic about the future...lots of talk, little change in behavior

13 darthstar  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:42:04pm

Broker called. We got approved. Now, if the ocean would hold off on rising for another 30 years or so, I'd like to enjoy looking at it from dry ground. 12ft above sea level is close enough.

14 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:52:35pm

re: #13 darthstar

Broker called. We got approved. Now, if the ocean would hold off on rising for another 30 years or so, I'd like to enjoy looking at it from dry ground. 12ft above sea level is close enough.

congrats...hope you enjoy it for many years to come

15 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 3:57:44pm

New advance in alternative fuel sources.

New solar fuel machine 'mimics plant life'

The headline is a bit misleading and the tech is new and not yet very efficient, but it looks interesting.

16 martinsmithy  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:04:16pm

Along this line, I recommend reading "Merchants of Doubt," which also chronicles in more detail the rise of climate change denialism, and ties it in to past cases of right-wing science denialism regarding tobacco, ozone depletion, DDT revisionism, etc.

On the other hand, I just finished a book by Bjorn Lomborg entitled "Cool It." The book argues that, while global warming is a problem, the cost of the solution is much worse than the cost of the problem, and that money spent on fighting climate change would be better spent on disease control, new food production, etc. I understand Lomborg has recently modified his position on the subject, but he is undoubtedly still a "skeptical enviromentalist."

And that, to me, is the biggest issue with global warming - not whether it is actually happening, but rather, whether the cure is worse than the disease.

17 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:04:48pm

re: #15 Bubblehead II

New advance in alternative fuel sources.

New solar fuel machine 'mimics plant life'

The headline is a bit misleading and the tech is new and not yet very efficient, but it looks interesting.

or we could grow oil...lots of it
[Link: domesticfuel.com...]

the will is just not there....have to wait for an extreme crisis
HYPERION!

18 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:05:54pm

re: #11 Obdicut

I'm not condemning them. I'm condemning the propagandists.

the people whose business, whose very livelihood, consists on spreading lies that will help to ruin the lives of millions


whee people rock!

19 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:07:08pm

re: #16 martinsmithy

Along this line, I recommend reading "Merchants of Doubt," which also chronicles in more detail the rise of climate change denialism, and ties it in to past cases of right-wing science denialism regarding tobacco, ozone depletion, DDT revisionism, etc.

On the other hand, I just finished a book by Bjorn Lomborg entitled "Cool It." The book argues that, while global warming is a problem, the cost of the solution is much worse than the cost of the problem, and that money spent on fighting climate change would be better spent on disease control, new food production, etc. I understand Lomborg has recently modified his position on the subject, but he is undoubtedly still a "skeptical enviromentalist."

And that, to me, is the biggest issue with global warming - not whether it is actually happening, but rather, whether the cure is worse than the disease.

Lomborg is not really a reliable source, dude

20 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:07:52pm

re: #16 martinsmithy

Along this line, I recommend reading "Merchants of Doubt," which also chronicles in more detail the rise of climate change denialism, and ties it in to past cases of right-wing science denialism regarding tobacco, ozone depletion, DDT revisionism, etc.

On the other hand, I just finished a book by Bjorn Lomborg entitled "Cool It." The book argues that, while global warming is a problem, the cost of the solution is much worse than the cost of the problem, and that money spent on fighting climate change would be better spent on disease control, new food production, etc. I understand Lomborg has recently modified his position on the subject, but he is undoubtedly still a "skeptical enviromentalist."

And that, to me, is the biggest issue with global warming - not whether it is actually happening, but rather, whether the cure is worse than the disease.

agreed...vast shifts of wealth and an imposed weakened world economy is not the answer....like you, this is where my interest lie, not in the science

21 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:08:09pm

re: #16 martinsmithy

wow you are a real old timer...

22 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:08:31pm

re: #19 WindUpBird

Lomborg is not really a reliable source, dude

a source for what?....ideas?

23 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:08:35pm

re: #16 martinsmithy

Lomborg Errors: [Link: www.lomborg-errors.dk...]

24 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:08:42pm

According to the video, it sounds like Luntz prepared a memo in 1995 yet the only memo I've seen with the suggestion global warming not be used was prepared in 2003.

Does anyone know of the ~1995 memo?

25 Martinsmithy  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:09:34pm

re: #20 albusteve

I know Lomborg is not beloved of the environmental community, but do you have any specifics you can refer me to?

26 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:09:59pm

re: #22 albusteve

a source for what?...ideas?

don't disturb the force... k

27 darthstar  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:10:00pm

Xmas card from the planet. Notice the banner in the background...

28 Martinsmithy  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:10:04pm

Never mind, Windupbird, you posted a link while I was writing that last comment!

29 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:10:20pm

re: #25 Martinsmithy

I know Lomborg is not beloved of the environmental community, but do you have any specifics you can refer me to?

sorry, no...I'm a bystander, preparing for the floods

30 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:10:53pm

re: #22 albusteve

a source for what?...ideas?

his books contain all kinds of shoddy science, factual errors, misdirection and dishonesty. it's like, why go to a fatalistic guy who's shrouded in controversy when there are scienists with better ideas whose work isn't?

31 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:11:50pm

re: #28 Martinsmithy

Never mind, Windupbird, you posted a link while I was writing that last comment!

he's not the worst guy on earth, he's just...shaky, on several fronts :P

32 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:12:59pm

members of my family work for NOAA, I'm looking forward to my sis-in-law unloading all her latest global warming denier pet peeves at me over eggnog on new years :D

33 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:14:58pm

re: #29 albusteve

sorry, no...I'm a bystander, preparing for the floods

floods? shit I thought it was droughts... famine & pestilence are still on schedule yes?

34 Stanghazi  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:15:49pm

re: #24 b_sharp

According to the video, it sounds like Luntz prepared a memo in 1995 yet the only memo I've seen with the suggestion global warming not be used was prepared in 2003.

Does anyone know of the ~1995 memo?

Wikileaks has the details somewhere.

35 Stanghazi  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:17:21pm

re: #34 Stanley Sea

Brookly!

36 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:17:30pm

re: #33 brookly red

floods? shit I thought it was droughts... famine & pestilence are still on schedule yes?

Floods and Droughts came to a time share agreement some time ago. Famine and Pestilence have been practising for their parts for a while, so I think they'll be on schedule.

37 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:17:41pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

his books contain all kinds of shoddy science, factual errors, misdirection and dishonesty. it's like, why go to a fatalistic guy who's shrouded in controversy when there are scienists with better ideas whose work isn't?

I'm not interested in science...I'm interested in solutions and results

38 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:18:34pm

re: #35 Stanley Sea

Brookly!

I love it when they scream my name!

(hides in shadows)

39 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:19:02pm

re: #37 albusteve

Without good science, you won't get solutions or results.

40 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:19:07pm

re: #37 albusteve

I'm not interested in science...I'm interested in solutions and results

If you are interested in solutions for AGW, you're interested in science.

41 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:19:32pm

re: #17 albusteve

or we could grow oil...lots of it
[Link: domesticfuel.com...]

the will is just not there...have to wait for an extreme crisis
HYPERION!

Purchasing a Hyperion Power Module (HPM)

Each HPM provides 70 MW thermal energy or 25 MW electric energy via steam turbine for seven to ten years. This amount of energy provides electricity for 20,000 average American-style homes or the industrial or infrastructure equivalent. Each module will cost $50 million. Initial deliveries, slated to begin in the second half of 2013, are being scheduled.

Any Idea who is interested in buying these things and what their status in regards to licensing is with the NRC?

42 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:19:43pm

re: #39 Obdicut

Without good science, you won't get solutions or results.

You beat me by 5 seconds.

43 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:19:55pm

re: #16 martinsmithy

Lomborg is not a scientist and has zero credibility in the field.

He's trying to sell his book.

44 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:20:04pm

re: #33 brookly red

floods? shit I thought it was droughts... famine & pestilence are still on schedule yes?

the droughts are here, now...as for famine, I'd say that's a major problem too

45 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:20:24pm

re: #42 b_sharp

Or to put it another way:

Image: science.jpg

46 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:20:58pm

re: #45 Obdicut

Or to put it another way:

Image: science.jpg

I love that graph.

47 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:21:04pm

re: #39 Obdicut

Without good science, you won't get solutions or results.

there is nothing wrong with the science...I'm fine with it, so lets take the next steps

48 darthstar  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:21:28pm

re: #45 Obdicut

Or to put it another way:

Image: science.jpg

Love it, and I'm stealing it.

49 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:21:50pm

re: #47 albusteve

there is nothing wrong with the science...I'm fine with it, so lets take the next steps

The point is it will take science to solve the problem.

50 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:21:59pm

re: #44 albusteve

the droughts are here, now...as for famine, I'd say that's a major problem too

famine, yes it sucks... perhaps if we ended farm subsit...

ooops never mind.

51 Martinsmithy  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:22:12pm

re: #21 brookly red

An old-timer, but, as you have undoubtedly noticed, not a very frequent visitor (or at least commenter).

I would say that I was on the left side of the LGF equation back when I first started posting, and I would be on the right side now. But it's always been an interesting blog, which is why I first registered and why I still come and look sometimes.

52 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:22:15pm

re: #43 Obdicut

Lomborg is not a scientist and has zero credibility in the field.

He's trying to sell his book.


He's a good looking guy! Sorta looks like a surfer.

53 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:22:49pm

re: #48 darthstar

Love it, and I'm stealing it.

I'll Indian wrestle you for it.

Ouch.

Mrs._Sharp just smacked me on the back of the head.

54 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:22:50pm

re: #41 Bubblehead II

Purchasing a Hyperion Power Module (HPM)

Each HPM provides 70 MW thermal energy or 25 MW electric energy via steam turbine for seven to ten years. This amount of energy provides electricity for 20,000 average American-style homes or the industrial or infrastructure equivalent. Each module will cost $50 million. Initial deliveries, slated to begin in the second half of 2013, are being scheduled.

Any Idea who is interested in buying these things and what their status in regards to licensing is with the NRC?

as far as licensing, I think they have mostly been ignored though the years by the AEC or whoever

55 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:23:13pm

re: #52 WindUpBird

That fits, since he's a dilettante making a quick buck.

56 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:23:55pm

re: #49 b_sharp

The point is it will take science to solve the problem.

I knew that years ago

57 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #56 albusteve

I knew that years ago

I think you just bit your tail.

58 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:26:09pm

re: #57 b_sharp

I think you just bit your tail.

I think you are looking for something that isn't there

59 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:28:16pm

Chinese take out time for Red, do dah, do dah...

60 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:28:31pm

re: #16 martinsmithy

And that, to me, is the biggest issue with global warming - not whether it is actually happening, but rather, whether the cure is worse than the disease.

The Disease: CO2 saturation of the air leading to global temperature rising, oceanic acidification adversely impacting the food chain, sea level rise affecting hundreds of millions directly, indirectly the rest of us, war, famine.

The Cure: paying 20/30/40% more for energy now to fund new technologies and efficiency improvement, changing our habits and systems to significantly impact our energy demand.

I'm not wondering at all. The Disease is very very bad. The biggest issue is how bad it is going to be. In the mean time it would behoove us to get our buts in gear and start reducing emissions as much as possible and at least slow down. To many, even that seems to be be an issue.

61 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:30:38pm

these things are awesome....they should be all over the place, since, obviously their time has come
[Link: www.hyperionpowergeneration.com...]

62 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:30:46pm

re: #54 albusteve

as far as licensing, I think they have mostly been ignored though the years by the AEC or whoever

Actually, they haven't.

HYPERION POWER COMPLETES FIRST FORMAL MEETING WITH U.S. NRC.

WASHINGTON, DC, December 09, 2010 — Hyperion Power Generation (HPG) has completed its first formal presentation of the Hyperion Power Module (HPM) to the United States' Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and related documents are now available through the agency's Agencywide Documents Access and Management System (ADAMS). Visit: wba.nrc.gov (simple search on Hyperion Power).

This thing may actually get off the ground.

63 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:32:02pm

re: #62 Bubblehead II

Actually, they haven't.

HYPERION POWER COMPLETES FIRST FORMAL MEETING WITH U.S. NRC.

WASHINGTON, DC, December 09, 2010 — Hyperion Power Generation (HPG) has completed its first formal presentation of the Hyperion Power Module (HPM) to the United States' Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and related documents are now available through the agency's Agencywide Documents Access and Management System (ADAMS). Visit: wba.nrc.gov (simple search on Hyperion Power).

This thing may actually get off the ground.

cool, but it's taken awhile...they have been around for years

64 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:33:47pm

re: #20 albusteve

agreed...vast shifts of wealth and an imposed weakened world economy is not the answer...like you, this is where my interest lie, not in the science

The 'vast shifts of wealth' and an assumed weakening of economies is not an assumed or inherent outcome. However, the adverse impacts of the changing environment will surely affect economies and order of magnitude more than paying more for energy now.

This was a key point of Lomborg but his methodology was called into question.

65 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:35:24pm

re: #64 BigPapa

The 'vast shifts of wealth' and an assumed weakening of economies is not an assumed or inherent outcome. However, the adverse impacts of the changing environment will surely affect economies and order of magnitude more than paying more for energy now.

This was a key point of Lomborg but his methodology was called into question.

that's all fine and dandy...I could care less about Lomborg...let's move on

66 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:37:40pm

re: #65 albusteve

that's all fine and dandy...I could care less about Lomborg...let's move on

We can't move on past Lombourg and his cronies, they've situated themselves between the problem and the solutions. We aren't going to see any solutions enacted until we can move their fat asses out of the way.

67 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:38:40pm

re: #63 albusteve

cool, but it's taken awhile...they have been around for years

True, but they are based on Nuclear Technology and you know how that sets off the enviro-weenies. I truly believe most of those people would cut their nose off just to spite their face rather than admit that the Science has progressed enough to make such installations not only safe, but affordable.

68 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:40:00pm

re: #13 darthstar

Broker called. We got approved. Now, if the ocean would hold off on rising for another 30 years or so, I'd like to enjoy looking at it from dry ground. 12ft above sea level is close enough.

Hooray!

69 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:40:59pm

re: #66 b_sharp

We can't move on past Lombourg and his cronies, they've situated themselves between the problem and the solutions. We aren't going to see any solutions enacted until we can move their fat asses out of the way.

go around him, assume that AGW is a national security issue...should not be too hard to do, since in fact, it is...why sit and argue about it for decades?...as we become more self sufficient, money will talk and less carbon pumped into the sky....voila!

70 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:41:48pm

re: #67 Bubblehead II

True, but they are based on Nuclear Technology and you know how that sets off the enviro-weenies. I truly believe most of those people would cut their nose off just to spite their face rather than admit that the Science has progressed enough to make such installations not only safe, but affordable.

yes, I agree....so fuck them and let's get these things online

71 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:43:04pm

btw, BEWARE THE ALPHA SPROUTS!

A salmonella outbreak linked to alfalfa sprouts has sickened 89 people in 15 states and the District of Columbia, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday.

72 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:46:40pm

re: #71 Bubblehead II

btw, BEWARE THE ALPHA SPROUTS!

A salmonella outbreak linked to alfalfa sprouts has sickened 89 people in 15 states and the District of Columbia, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday.

Another reason to grow your own, You can sprout them in a jar on you kitchen counter for pennies per serving.

73 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:47:30pm

re: #65 albusteve

that's all fine and dandy...I could care less about Lomborg...let's move on

To all the deniers standing the way of actually doing something of merit or worth, I agree: let's move on. The problem is that instead of letting others move on, they're standing in the way of that. One of the ways they are impeding is injecting concepts into the debate about 'adversely impacting economies' or increasing costs, or the shallowest of canards, it's going to harm people in the third world by driving up their energy costs. That's pathetic on the face of it: most in the 3rd world rely very little on energy, growing their own crops by hand, no electricity, plumbing, cars, etc. If electricity or petroleum doubles or triples in price we'll feel it much more than they will.

Anyway, Mrs BigPapa is demanding I help load up presents and the car for our family Xmas trip to Hilo so I must run. The concept that we may harm jobs or energy may cost more is frequently used as a denier meme to slog down or stifle debate, and comments here triggered my response, but I cannot continue a dialog now.

Melekalikimaka!

74 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:49:14pm

NIMBY
Boxer...no solar generation in the Mohave
Kennedy...no wind generation off Hyannis Port
Reid...no waste storage in Nevada
and there are more
some guy named Lomborg that wrote a book is not the problem...a handful of judges and elected officials are

75 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:54:28pm

re: #71 Bubblehead II

Now here is a post that could really use the edit feature Charles asked about the other day.

Alpha=Alfalfa.

pimf and facepalm.

76 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:56:37pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Another reason to grow your own, You can sprout them in a jar on you kitchen counter for pennies per serving.

don't that violate the interstate trading clause or something?

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:57:02pm

re: #76 brookly red

don't that violate the interstate trading clause or something?

Growing vegetables on the kitchen counter?

78 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:57:35pm

re: #74 albusteve

NIMBY
Boxer...no solar generation in the Mohave
Kennedy...no wind generation off Hyannis Port
Reid...no waste storage in Nevada
and there are more
some guy named Lomborg that wrote a book is not the problem...a handful of judges and elected officials are

can I be a witness...

79 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:58:01pm

and so it begins...churches asked to pony up

Stanley argues that the fee is actually a property tax, which he says churches, charities and other nonprofits have been exempt from paying.

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

80 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:58:37pm

re: #76 brookly red

don't that violate the interstate trading clause or something?

only if they have sugar in them

81 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:59:04pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Growing vegetables on the kitchen counter?

Oh, your right... I am thinking of the food safety bill. Sorry my bad.

82 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:59:33pm

OT: Bad but important news.

Somalia Militant Groups Join Forces

83 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 4:59:44pm

New Wingnut Outrage: DADT repeal will offend Muslims, Fuel Terrorism....
Will DADT repeal cause problems for American troops serving in Muslim countries?

Former United States Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Jed Babbin told TheDC that the repeal raises more questions than it answers about America’s ability to execute the War on Terror effectively.

“Can gays serve as military advisers to Muslims?” he asked in an e-mail to TheDC. “What about Provincial Reconstruction Teams in Afghanistan? Will gays be able to be out among the Muslims and how much will that drive Muslims away from the nation-building effort?”
...
Babbin was especially concerned about the propaganda and recruitment value DADT repeal will have for terrorists.

“Propaganda that says gays are among (and the propagandists will say they amount to all) the US troops may turn more young Muslims into terrorists than Guantanamo Bay’s prison ever did…..The burden on our guys – to gain confidence and provide security – is increased many-fold by having to overcome the Muslim intolerance of homosexuality,” wrote Babbin to TheDC.

Indeed propaganda is something to keep in mind, according to Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD). Jasser told TheDC that, while the AIFD did not take a position on the repeal of DADT, there is a good probability that jihadi propagandists will likely use the presence of gays in uniform against the United States.

“It will be used in order to paint American secularism as against their Islamic values, so it will be no different than other stereotypes about the West –as being anti-religious, anti-Islam — that have been used in the past to feed the anti-American military propaganda,” Jasser said, noting that the real world impact will be unknown until the policy is actually implemented.

Jasser added that demonstrating cultural openness might be a good thing in the long run.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:00:58pm

re: #81 brookly red

Oh, your right... I am thinking of the food safety bill. Sorry my bad.

The food safety bill prevents people from sprouting alfalfa sprouts?

85 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:01:08pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Growing vegetables on the kitchen counter?

sure, or in a living room coffee table...water and light are not difficult to provide

86 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:01:35pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Another reason to grow your own, You can sprout them in a jar on you kitchen counter for pennies per serving.

Or you could go with a commercial unit.

You could recoup your cost in 5-10 "crops" v buying a prepackaged/potentially tainted product. Plus Charles would get a cut. ;-)

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:01:37pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

New Wingnut Outrage: DADT repeal will offend Muslims, Fuel Terrorism...
Will DADT repeal cause problems for American troops serving in Muslim countries?

The insane roads this could go down beckon already...

88 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:02:32pm

re: #79 albusteve

and so it begins...churches asked to pony up

Stanley argues that the fee is actually a property tax, which he says churches, charities and other nonprofits have been exempt from paying.

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]


C'mon, you can't be really falling for that, can you?

89 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:02:33pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

LOL!...what a reach, some Muslims are already offended by every little thing

90 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:03:41pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

C'mon, you can't be really falling for that, can you?

I'm not falling for anything...just posting the weirdness

91 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:04:12pm

re: #89 albusteve

LOL!...what a reach, some Muslims are already offended by every little thing

They could also make the same argument against letting Jews and Women serve but I suppose they're aware of that.

92 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:04:45pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

New Wingnut Outrage: DADT repeal will offend Muslims, Fuel Terrorism...
Will DADT repeal cause problems for American troops serving in Muslim countries?

Suddenly they're afraid of causing trouble for troops serving in Muslim countries. Irony is dead.

93 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:06:51pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

They could also make the same argument against letting Jews and Women serve but I suppose they're aware of that.

sure they are...it's just more fanatical pushback....toss enough poo at a wall, etc

94 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:06:58pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

The food safety bill prevents people from sprouting alfalfa sprouts?

No, as long as you file the proper forms, allow inspections & of course declare it as income... no problem.

95 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:07:21pm

“Can gays christians serve as military advisers to Muslims?” he asked in an e-mail to TheDC. “What about Provincial Reconstruction Teams in Afghanistan? Will gays christians be able to be out among the Muslims and how much will that drive Muslims away from the nation-building effort?”

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:07:48pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

They could also make the same argument against letting Jews and Women serve but I suppose they're aware of that.

They could. They could, of course, make the same argument against Christians serving.

It's nonsense, anyway. This guy seriously believes that people who wouldn't have become jihadis will take up arms because gay people can now serve openly? "I was gonna stay home, because they may be the Great Satan, but at least they oppress gay people a little. But now that I know that they've repealed DADT, the gloves are off!"

97 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:08:11pm

re: #94 brookly red

No, as long as you file the proper forms, allow inspections & of course declare it as income... no problem.

it's not for income...no more than having a garden

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:08:41pm

re: #94 brookly red

No, as long as you file the proper forms, allow inspections & of course declare it as income... no problem.

Hmmmm. Yeah, I'm sure they'll be coming for the lady next door's tomatoes momentarily.

99 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:09:18pm

re: #95 engineer dog

“Can gays christians serve as military advisers to Muslims?” he asked in an e-mail to TheDC. “What about Provincial Reconstruction Teams in Afghanistan? Will gays christians be able to be out among the Muslims and how much will that drive Muslims away from the nation-building effort?”

nation building effort?...now there's a question worth resolving

100 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:09:54pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

They could. They could, of course, make the same argument against Christians serving.

It's nonsense, anyway. This guy seriously believes that people who wouldn't have become jihadis will take up arms because gay people can now serve openly? "I was gonna stay home, because they may be the Great Satan, but at least they oppress gay people a little. But now that I know that they've repealed DADT, the gloves are off!"

well the best thing about the repeal of DADT is that now there is no possible legal argument to oppose ROTC...

101 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:11:39pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure they'll be coming for the lady next door's tomatoes momentarily.

and testing your oregano for THC content...bet me

102 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:11:40pm

re: #97 albusteve

it's not for income...no more than having a garden

yeah so?

103 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:13:27pm

re: #102 brookly red

yeah so?

so there is no merit for govt intervention...not that it would make a difference...in some places you can go to jail if you bring a Sharpie to school...so who knows

104 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:14:57pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure they'll be coming for the lady next door's tomatoes momentarily.

my advice is to get a leg up on the market and start printing "keep your laws off of my tomatoes" t-shirts now and beat the rush...

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:17:01pm

re: #100 brookly red

well the best thing about the repeal of DADT is that now there is no possible legal argument to oppose ROTC...

ROTC is fine, it's those recruiters who get your test scores and who just lie to your face, that's who needs to stop their bullshit.

I'd get together with my nerd friends, and we'd compare and contrast all the hilarious horseshit stories military recruiters would tell us in order to manipulate us into enlisting. I got a bit sick of them after the eleventh time they called my parents' place, my mother eventually just started asking any adult who wanted to talk to me "what branch of the armed forces is wasting my son's time today?" One of them came to my friend's door, UNINVITED. Creepy.

106 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:18:32pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

It never fails, no matter what is going on in the world, no matter what horrors and pressures we're all under, it's always queers at the bottom of it according to these doughy wackos

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:19:07pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

ROTC is fine, it's those recruiters who get your test scores and who just lie to your face, that's who needs to stop their bullshit.

I'd get together with my nerd friends, and we'd compare and contrast all the hilarious horseshit stories military recruiters would tell us in order to manipulate us into enlisting. I got a bit sick of them after the eleventh time they called my parents' place, my mother eventually just started asking any adult who wanted to talk to me "what branch of the armed forces is wasting my son's time today?" One of them came to my friend's door, UNINVITED. Creepy.

My mother talked to one of the recruiters who called me. She thought it was a prank. They didn't try to recruit girls in her day. She kept repeating "Oh, stop being silly. Who is this?" and the poor guy kept saying, "Ma'am, this is the United States Marine Corps."

108 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:19:36pm

re: #106 WindUpBird

It never fails, no matter what is going on in the world, no matter what horrors and pressures we're all under, it's always queers at the bottom of it according to these doughy wackos

no its usually jooos... so get over it ;)

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:19:41pm

re: #106 WindUpBird

It never fails, no matter what is going on in the world, no matter what horrors and pressures we're all under, it's always queers at the bottom of it according to these doughy wackos

Such is the power of heterosexuality. As long as it's rigorously practiced by all of us, it can fix anything.

110 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:19:56pm

re: #67 Bubblehead II

True, but they are based on Nuclear Technology and you know how that sets off the enviro-weenies. I truly believe most of those people would cut their nose off just to spite their face rather than admit that the Science has progressed enough to make such installations not only safe, but affordable.

Enviro-weenie here. I've got no problem with nukes, as long as they're run by the Navy/DoE and not the Mafia/Con Ed.

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:20:05pm

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

My mother talked to one of the recruiters who called me. She thought it was a prank. They didn't try to recruit girls in her day. She kept repeating "Oh, stop being silly. Who is this?" and the poor guy kept saying, "Ma'am, this is the United States Marine Corps."

ahahahahahah

112 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:21:27pm

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

My mother talked to one of the recruiters who called me. She thought it was a prank. They didn't try to recruit girls in her day. She kept repeating "Oh, stop being silly. Who is this?" and the poor guy kept saying, "Ma'am, this is the United States Marine Corps."

well usually when they come a callin things are, well you know, uhh broken?

113 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:23:28pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure they'll be coming for the lady next door's tomatoes momentarily.

No Sarc. We once over planted and sent word out that we had an over abundance of produce and those who wanted it (cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, peas, beans,squash) could come over and take what they wanted. First come, first served. Ended up with the cops checking us out as a unlicensed distributor. Once they found out that we were giving it away for free, there was no problem. Hell, they even took some home for their Family. It can happen.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:25:24pm

re: #112 brookly red

well usually when they come a callin things are, well you know, uhh broken?

I graduated in 1994, they pestered me for ages.

My brother graduated in 1996, they pestered HIm for ages.

My cousin, few years after that, same diff

Nothing's broken, they just saw that I (and certainly SFZ as well) scored in the 99th percentile or whatever for some standardized test, and then we were on the List for the recruiters.

'hey dude who has already applied to art schools and liberal arts colleges who is working professionally in design! Why not end your career and join the marines!"

115 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:25:30pm

I added some shitakes to the lamb marinade tonight. Time to fire up the Big Green Egg and see how it comes out.

116 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:25:53pm

re: #113 Bubblehead II

No Sarc. We once over planted and sent word out that we had an over abundance of produce and those who wanted it (cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, peas, beans,squash) could come over and take what they wanted. First come, first served. Ended up with the cops checking us out as a unlicensed distributor. Once they found out that we were giving it away for free, there was no problem. Hell, they even took some home for their Family. It can happen.

that should tell you something about our state of affairs regarding business between neighbors....had your kid been selling lemonade, they'd be in prison

117 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:26:01pm

re: #113 Bubblehead II

No Sarc. We once over planted and sent word out that we had an over abundance of produce and those who wanted it (cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, peas, beans,squash) could come over and take what they wanted. First come, first served. Ended up with the cops checking us out as a unlicensed distributor. Once they found out that we were giving it away for free, there was no problem. Hell, they even took some home for their Family. It can happen.

once the camel has his nose in the tent...

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:26:40pm

re: #113 Bubblehead II

No Sarc. We once over planted and sent word out that we had an over abundance of produce and those who wanted it (cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, peas, beans,squash) could come over and take what they wanted. First come, first served. Ended up with the cops checking us out as a unlicensed distributor. Once they found out that we were giving it away for free, there was no problem. Hell, they even took some home for their Family. It can happen.

There's a Marge Piercy poem about zucchini (and how much of it you end up with in July), where she mentions that disposing of it in mailboxes is a federal offense.

119 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:27:52pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

I graduated in 1994, they pestered me for ages.

My brother graduated in 1996, they pestered HIm for ages.

My cousin, few years after that, same diff

Nothing's broken, they just saw that I (and certainly SFZ as well) scored in the 99th percentile or whatever for some standardized test, and then we were on the List for the recruiters.

'hey dude who has already applied to art schools and liberal arts colleges who is working professionally in design! Why not end your career and join the marines!"

yes of course, I did not mean to imply that you were on their level...

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:28:00pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

I graduated in 1994, they pestered me for ages.

My brother graduated in 1996, they pestered HIm for ages.

My cousin, few years after that, same diff

Nothing's broken, they just saw that I (and certainly SFZ as well) scored in the 99th percentile or whatever for some standardized test, and then we were on the List for the recruiters.

'hey dude who has already applied to art schools and liberal arts colleges who is working professionally in design! Why not end your career and join the marines!"

I heard from each branch of the armed forces once or twice, and then they went away...but I think you're some younger than I am, correct? I was getting calls the spring after the first Gulf War.

121 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:29:09pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a Marge Piercy poem about zucchini (and how much of it you end up with in July), where she mentions that disposing of it in mailboxes is a federal offense.

I leave excess veggies in plastic bags on the neighbors' doorknobs. Our family calls that "foisting".

122 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:29:36pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

New Wingnut Outrage: DADT repeal will offend Muslims, Fuel Terrorism...
Will DADT repeal cause problems for American troops serving in Muslim countries?

Riiight. Because people in Muslim countries have never seen gays before. They don't have gay sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, friends, etc. like we do here.

Besides, we already know there are none in Iran because Ahamadinejad said so (and he would never lie to us).

So far it seems to me that American so-cons are more offended than anyone else.

123 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #121 Decatur Deb

I leave excess veggies in plastic bags on the neighbors' doorknobs. Our family calls that "foisting".

Heard from the Army once, and they weren't asking.

124 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:31:22pm

re: #116 albusteve

that should tell you something about our state of affairs regarding business between neighbors...had your kid been selling lemonade, they'd be in prison

my friend is the manager for a group home for developmentally disabled people (the same company I used to work for, different home) just got the job a month or so ago. Well, the group home is in a nice and very elderly neighborhood. A couple of the neighbors despise the group home, and despise my manager friend more because he's a bit more into his job, takes the guys on walks, that sort of thing, more visible. Well, we can't have that in this rich neighborhood, right? So this one particularly unhinged Gladys Kravitz type called the cops and the county and said the home was being run as an unlicenced halfway house.

Cops showed up, the county whoever-it-is showed up, badges flashed, paperwork rifled through, the whole house was essentially investigated for no reason, fucking up doctor's appointments, weeks of hoops jumping and shit, all because this lady was disgusted by the disabled being visible across the street from her almost surrealistically manicured lawn.

People !

125 brookly red  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:32:10pm

re: #123 Decatur Deb

Heard from the Army once, and they weren't asking.

government can do that...

126 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:32:24pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

I heard from each branch of the armed forces once or twice, and then they went away...but I think you're some younger than I am, correct? I was getting calls the spring after the first Gulf War.

I had two guys who would not leave me alone *_* I am 34, I graduated in 94. We watched the first gulf war on CNN in jr. high in my advanced civics classes.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:33:37pm

re: #126 WindUpBird

I had two guys who would not leave me alone *_* I am 34, I graduated in 94. We watched the first gulf war on CNN in jr. high in my advanced civics classes.

Just three years' difference then.

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:34:58pm

re: #122 CuriousLurker


So far it seems to me that American so-cons are more offended than anyone else.

in the next 50 years I think the real so-con crowd will shrink mightily, but it'll become even more fanatical and rabid. The crazy of the Phelps and the more mainstream creepy of the FRC/FotF, it'll start to converge, i think, as their power wanes.

129 Bear  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:35:00pm

Way back in the 1930 era depression, my grandmother tried making cookies for her unemployed brother to sell around the neighborhood. Worked for a while until the "Hungry for money" City Fathers demanded a business license.

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:35:51pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Just three years' difference then.

Still gen X :D In some ways I wish I was juuust a fe wyears older, I missed a lot of concerts for being just under 21, or for being too young to realize all the awesome I was missing ;-)

131 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:36:53pm

re: #124 WindUpBird

my friend is the manager for a group home for developmentally disabled people (the same company I used to work for, different home) just got the job a month or so ago. Well, the group home is in a nice and very elderly neighborhood. A couple of the neighbors despise the group home, and despise my manager friend more because he's a bit more into his job, takes the guys on walks, that sort of thing, more visible. Well, we can't have that in this rich neighborhood, right? So this one particularly unhinged Gladys Kravitz type called the cops and the county and said the home was being run as an unlicenced halfway house.

Cops showed up, the county whoever-it-is showed up, badges flashed, paperwork rifled through, the whole house was essentially investigated for no reason, fucking up doctor's appointments, weeks of hoops jumping and shit, all because this lady was disgusted by the disabled being visible across the street from her almost surrealistically manicured lawn.

People !

funny but sad...it seems that common sense has no role in the everyday affairs of typical folks...I wonder what the judge was thinking when he green lighted this thing...NIMBY is turning out to be a real pain in the ass...and a shout out for you peeps doing that sort of work...good for you

132 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:39:19pm

re: #128 WindUpBird

in the next 50 years I think the real so-con crowd will shrink mightily, but it'll become even more fanatical and rabid. The crazy of the Phelps and the more mainstream creepy of the FRC/FotF, it'll start to converge, i think, as their power wanes.

precisely why I think the !st Amendment will get dragged through the mud, in those times to come...if Phelps pushes hard enough, strange things could happen....he has his rights too...buckle up for that scenario

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:39:19pm

re: #131 albusteve

funny but sad...it seems that common sense has no role in the everyday affairs of typical folks...I wonder what the judge was thinking when he green lighted this thing...NIMBY is turning out to be a real pain in the ass...and a shout out for you peeps doing that sort of work...good for you

Thanks! It was sort of an awesome and scary and really stressful job all at once, for little money. I basically did drawings on the side during downtime for beer money. But it was a lot of fun, oh the excitement of working with an autistic guy that is strong enough to bench press you *_*

134 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:39:48pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a Marge Piercy poem about zucchini (and how much of it you end up with in July), where she mentions that disposing of it in mailboxes is a federal offense.

DUH! On the other hand the wife has various methods of basically crushing it down into a pulp (freezing it) and using it to make bread (as desired). Wether it be Banana or Zucchini, fresh out of the oven, slathered with butter and (optional) Orange Marmalade it is Heaven on a plate.

135 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:40:05pm

re: #128 WindUpBird

in the next 50 years I think the real so-con crowd will shrink mightily, but it'll become even more fanatical and rabid. The crazy of the Phelps and the more mainstream creepy of the FRC/FotF, it'll start to converge, i think, as their power wanes.

Yeah, I don't see them quietly fading away into obscurity (unfortunately).

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:40:42pm

re: #132 albusteve

precisely why I think the !st Amendment will get dragged through the mud, in those times to come...if Phelps pushes hard enough, strange things could happen...he has his rights too...buckle up for that scenario

Oh i agree, i'm sort of afraid of that guy's ability to always get the cameras on him. I like the biker solution, just let them protest, but block them off with a physical barrier so nobody can see them

Unfortuantely, the media is complicit in that guy's power, they love a kook

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:41:04pm

re: #135 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I don't see them quietly fading away into obscurity (unfortunately).

it'll be like more evil through a smaller hose, the pressure will increase exponentially :P

138 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:41:55pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

SFZ--I've put up a page with an article from my daughter's writing blog. That article has a reference to another writing contest. How did the nano-novel go?

139 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:42:23pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

it'll be like more evil through a smaller hose, the pressure will increase exponentially :P

Heh, great description! That one's a keeper. ;o)

140 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:42:41pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

it'll be like more evil through a smaller hose, the pressure will increase exponentially :P

Till the hose burst and the pressure drops to zero.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:44:32pm

re: #140 Bubblehead II

Till the hose burst and the pressure drops to zero.

right, and that'll be when they essentially go underground, and what used to be a mainstream so-con lobbying/cultural push is relegated to the same status as Stormfront and World Church of the Creator.

That'll be a while though :/ The Randall terries of this country have a lot of strings they can still pull

142 albusteve  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:46:59pm

re: #136 WindUpBird

Oh i agree, i'm sort of afraid of that guy's ability to always get the cameras on him. I like the biker solution, just let them protest, but block them off with a physical barrier so nobody can see them

Unfortuantely, the media is complicit in that guy's power, they love a kook

the MSM...don't count on them to do the right thing....they may be complicit at times...the biker gig is really cool and something that simple might shut down Phelps..as for me, he and his people bring out my worst, aggressive nature...I tell you, I'd love to go full tilt boogie on them....even at 58 I've still got 5 minutes to express my severest wrath

143 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:48:35pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

And this is something new? Our history is replete with these scenarios.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:52:05pm

re: #143 Bubblehead II

And this is something new? Our history is replete with these scenarios.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

I know. ;-) Difference is, i'm party of the group that's the TARGET of these guys. it ain't history, it's happening to us now, and my friends and my friends' friends. So it's a bit closer to home *_*

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:54:09pm

re: #142 albusteve

the MSM...don't count on them to do the right thing...they may be complicit at times...the biker gig is really cool and something that simple might shut down Phelps..as for me, he and his people bring out my worst, aggressive nature...I tell you, I'd love to go full tilt boogie on them...even at 58 I've still got 5 minutes to express my severest wrath

I don't know how much of that guy's church's angle is just crazy, and how much of it is calculatedly trolling people into lawsuits. They seem to have a ton of money to put people on planes :P

146 ryannon  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:55:16pm

re: #61 albusteve

these things are awesome...they should be all over the place, since, obviously their time has come
[Link: www.hyperionpowergeneration.com...]

Nuclear's time has come and gone. In the meantime, people are starting to power up with comparable cost-effective clean energy sources:

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 5:58:29pm

re: #146 ryannon

o.o

awesome.

148 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 6:05:52pm

re: #144 WindUpBird

I know. ;-) Difference is, i'm party of the group that's the TARGET of these guys. it ain't history, it's happening to us now, and my friends and my friends' friends. So it's a bit closer to home *_*

Well, would you mind just explaining who you and your friends are? Without that context, I don't have a base from which to comment. As for me

Race/Sex: : White/Male
Religion : Atheist
Relation : Monogamous
Sexual Preference : Bi

Yeah, these assholes want to take me down as well.

Any other questions?

Charles! Smelling Salts around

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 6:25:59pm

re: #138 Decatur Deb

SFZ--I've put up a page with an article from my daughter's writing blog. That article has a reference to another writing contest. How did the nano-novel go?

Well, I don't know if it's much of a novel, but I got my winner's gadget! It was a really great thing to do this year. I needed to get my head focused on something that wasn't work.

150 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 6:29:03pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Dau #1 is counting hers as one of her two unpublished novels. What kind of gadget? She just got a print-it-yourself certificate.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 6:31:00pm

re: #150 Decatur Deb

Dau #1 is counting hers as one of her two unpublished novels. What kind of gadget? She just got a print-it-yourself certificate.

Yeah, you get a certificate, and then you can download doodads to put on Facebook or a blog to show you won.

152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 23, 2010 10:05:04pm

re: #148 Bubblehead II

Well, would you mind just explaining who you and your friends are? Without that context, I don't have a base from which to comment. As for me

Race/Sex: : White/Male
Religion : Atheist
Relation : Monogamous
Sexual Preference : Bi

Yeah, these assholes want to take me down as well.

Any other questions?

Charles! Smelling Salts around

I am a twiggy white queer male :D


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Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
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A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
Yesterday
Views: 85 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1