Wired Journalists Say Chat Transcripts Contain ‘Nothing Newsworthy’

US News • Views: 29,855

In the latest news on the Glenn Greenwald-Wired Magazine slapfight, the Guardian has an article today in which Wired’s Evan Hansen and Kevin Poulsen say they have once again reviewed the unpublished chats over which Greenwald is hyperventilating, and there’s nothing newsworthy in them.

I don’t expect this to prevent Greenwald from posting another 3000-word essay on why he’s right and everyone else is wrong, though.

“The chats Wired has but is withholding – and about which they are refusing to comment – are newsworthy in the extreme,” Glenn Greenwald, one of Wired’s fiercest critics, wrote on Monday.

The following day Evan Hansen, editor-in-chief of wired.com, and Kevin Poulsen, the journalist who obtained the web chats, published a response to what they said were Greenwald’s personal and unfounded attacks. Today both told the Guardian they had reviewed the unpublished transcripts in the last 24 hours. They concluded there was no discussion shedding new light on the relationship between Manning and Assange.

“If I were a prosecutor, everything I would be looking at [in seeking to mount a case against Manning or Assange] would be in the published record,” Hansen said. “We’re trying to get the news out there that is relevant to the public. If there was something like that in the unpublished [chat logs] we would have made that public six months ago.”

Poulsen also said that there was nothing “newsworthy” in the parts of the transcript they had decided to hold back, adding that nothing “of substance” about Manning’s relationship with Assange had been kept secret.

“We have discussions in the newsroom, at every major turn in the Manning case, about whether it is now appropriate to publish the complete logs,” he said. “And so far we have concluded it isn’t.”

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480 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:10:55pm

The only way it would make sense for Wired NOT to publish the transcripts if there really is big news in them is if there's some kind of conspiracy or cover-up going on. That's what Greenwald is alleging.

2 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:11:25pm

So the evidence not supporting Greenwald's position means Wired is 'withholding'?

"Glenn Greenwald, meet Glenn Beck. I'm sure you two will get along famously, as your both have a lot in common."

/spits

3 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:12:05pm

Not to put too fine a point on it, it's nuts. Wired is in business to draw eyeballs, just like Greenwald is. If they had something big they would have published it.

4 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:16:26pm

Charles wasn't Glenn looking for any other info from the unreleased logs the would/could substantiate Lamo's position that Manning somehow had preferential treatment?

Doesn't the lack of anything else newsworthy take away from Lamo's position which would then actually support Grenwald's position?

5 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:29:24pm

re: #4 ozbloke

Charles wasn't Glenn looking for any other info from the unreleased logs the would/could substantiate Lamo's position that Manning somehow had preferential treatment?

Doesn't the lack of anything else newsworthy take away from Lamo's position which would then actually support Grenwald's position?

?

Who supposedly treated Manning preferentially, and how?

How would the lack of any additional information support Greenwald's position?

I'm confused . . .

6 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:30:17pm

The chats Wired has but is withholding – and about which they are refusing to comment – are newsworthy in the extreme,”

I am so fucking tired of this, gotcha, kiss & tell bullshit...

7 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:32:25pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

?

Who supposedly treated Manning preferentially, and how?

How would the lack of any additional information support Greenwald's position?

I'm confused . . .

Wasn't it Lamo's position that Manning had preferential treatment with a server setup just for him to upload the cables.
This is supposed to be where the Govt wants to build its case that Assange was a co- conspiritor.
The fact that the releases logs did not show what Lamo was claiming then the view was there would be more evidence in the 75% of the logs that had not been released.
If as wired state that there was no additional relevent info, then that would leave Lamo in the position of an unproveable opinion, which is that Assange had done anything 'special' and is therfore a co-conspiritor.

8 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:33:11pm

Enh. I found this to be newsworthy. But: meh.

9 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:33:40pm

re: #6 brookly red

The chats Wired has but is withholding – and about which they are refusing to comment – are newsworthy in the extreme,”

I am so fucking tired of this, gotcha, kiss & tell bullshit...

They would have been if they proved Lamo's assertion that Manning got preferential treatment.

10 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:35:17pm

re: #8 000G

Enh. I found this to be newsworthy. But: meh.

Why? That's what they've been saying all along. Just because they confirmed it, suddenly it's newsworthy?

11 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:35:41pm

We’re trying to get the news out there that is relevant to the public. If there was something like that in the unpublished [chat logs] we would have made that public six months ago.”

fuck it. you got cards? put em on the table... I am starting to get a hateon for these types.

12 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:37:38pm

re: #6 brookly red

The chats Wired has but is withholding – and about which they are refusing to comment – are newsworthy in the extreme,”

I am so fucking tired of this, gotcha, kiss & tell bullshit...

OT. Brookly--I posted this in the morning, want you to see it if you haven't. Your pizza guy might be in there.

Blizzard Video

[Link: www.google.com...]

13 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:38:17pm

re: #10 Charles

Why? That's what they've been saying all along. Just because they confirmed it, suddenly it's newsworthy?

I am not sure who you mean with "they". Wired? They said that Lamo's statement wasn't backed up by the chats?

14 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:39:41pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

OT. Brookly--I posted this in the morning, want you to see it if you haven't. Your pizza guy might be in there.

Blizzard Video

[Link: www.google.com...]

WTF is that ,, a Fellini film!?!?!

15 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:40:21pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

OT. Brookly--I posted this in the morning, want you to see it if you haven't. Your pizza guy might be in there.

Blizzard Video

[Link: www.google.com...]

see it? I live it...

16 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:40:43pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

WTF is that ,, a Fellini film!?!?!

Oscar talk. The dog makes it work.

17 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:40:53pm

re: #13 000G

I am not sure who you mean with "they". Wired? They said that Lamo's statement wasn't backed up by the chats?

Wired has been saying all along that they've already released everything newsworthy. Or is the argument now that they're supposed to release everything exactly because it isn't newsworthy?

It's a fine mess Greenwald has made.

18 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #7 ozbloke

Wasn't it Lamo's position that Manning had preferential treatment with a server setup just for him to upload the cables.
This is supposed to be where the Govt wants to build its case that Assange was a co- conspiritor.
The fact that the releases logs did not show what Lamo was claiming then the view was there would be more evidence in the 75% of the logs that had not been released.
If as wired state that there was no additional relevent info, then that would leave Lamo in the position of an unproveable opinion, which is that Assange had done anything 'special' and is therfore a co-conspiritor.

Oh.
I've not paid enough attention to know about the "preferential" treatment part.

But it seems that information could be obtained from other sources, not just from Lamo's chat logs, if it's true. So it can be true that:
Manning received preferential treatment, evidence to be had from other sources, and
There is no additional relevant info in the chat logs,
thus
Greenwald's position is in no way supported by the lack of additional relevant information in the chat logs.

19 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:41:40pm

re: #15 brookly red

see it? I live it...

quitcherbitchin!

20 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:42:10pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

Oh.
I've not paid enough attention to know about the "preferential" treatment part.

But it seems that information could be obtained from other sources, not just from Lamo's chat logs, if it's true. So it can be true that:
Manning received preferential treatment, evidence to be had from other sources, and
There is no additional relevant info in the chat logs,
thus
Greenwald's position is in no way supported by the lack of additional relevant information in the chat logs.

Also, the moon landings were fake on a grassy knoll.
;)

21 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:42:44pm

re: #17 Charles

Wired has been saying all along that they've already released everything newsworthy. Or is the argument now that they're supposed to release everything exactly because it isn't newsworthy?

It's a fine mess Greenwald has made.

It's deliberate, of course. Designed to feed his persecution fantasy.

22 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:42:52pm

re: #17 Charles

Wired has been saying all along that they've already released everything newsworthy. Or is the argument now that they're supposed to release everything exactly because it isn't newsworthy?

It's a fine mess Greenwald has made.

newsworthy? LOL ! I am old enough to remember "all the news that is fit to print"

23 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:42:55pm

re: #17 Charles

Wired has been saying all along that they've already released everything newsworthy. Or is the argument now that they're supposed to release everything exactly because it isn't newsworthy?

I find the fact that Lamo's claim about the private server that he made in other publications is not in the chats newsworthy. Just my opinion, though. You and Wired my disagree. I am certainly not going to throw lightning bolts over it like Greenwald seems to like to.

24 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:43:26pm

re: #22 brookly red

newsworthy? LOL ! I am old enough to remember "all the news that is fit to print"

And from ther inside, If It Bleeds, It Leads!

25 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:43:27pm

re: #20 Varek Raith

Also, the moon landings were fake on a grassy knoll.
;)

*snicker*

You know, my mind is so simple, I just see things in a straight line, OR maybe in a LIST form, and so that's how I end up writing them out.

26 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:44:06pm

re: #25 reine.de.tout

*snicker*

You know, my mind is so simple, I just see things in a straight line, OR maybe in a LIST form, and so that's how I end up writing them out.

While you're at it, have you finished my grocery and birthday present lists!?!?!

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:45:20pm

re: #23 000G

I find the fact that Lamo's claim about the private server that he made in other publications is not in the chats newsworthy. Just my opinion, though. You and Wired my disagree. I am certainly not going to throw lightning bolts over it like Greenwald seems to like to.

It's inconsequential. If Manning and Assange did have a server set up for the files, the government will have other evidence of it. None of this will matter in whatever case eventually goes to trial. It's just Greenwald saying, "Look at me!"

28 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:45:25pm

re: #26 sattv4u2

While you're at it, have you finished my grocery and birthday present lists!?!?!

yer on yer own, sorry satt!

Sheesh.
When I was working, any letter I ever wrote started out, first draft, in a LIST form.
A.
B.
C.
Then I'd write the letter. And sometimes the list stayed just as it was.
Poor me.

29 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:45:29pm

re: #26 sattv4u2

While you're at it, have you finished my grocery and birthday present lists!?!?!

*Slowly steps away from sat.*

30 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:45:35pm

Giving some props to Wired: Top Scientific Breakthroughs of 2010

31 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:46:11pm

the only thing more corrupt than the old media is the new media

32 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:46:51pm

Excuse me, I mean "Manning and Assange."

33 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:47:10pm

re: #27 Charles

It's inconsequential. If Lamo and Assange did have a server set up for the files, the government will have other evidence of it. None of this will matter in whatever case eventually goes to trial. It's just Greenwald saying, "Look at me!"

You mean Manning and Assange, right?

And yes, it would probably not matter for the case. It will matter for people's opinion about Lamo, though.

34 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:51:03pm

In any case, the only person any of this affects is Assange. The chats contain more than enough to send Manning to jail for a very long time.

If there was a server set up, and files were transferred to it by Manning, the government already has all the details about it.

35 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:51:52pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

Oh.
I've not paid enough attention to know about the "preferential" treatment part.

But it seems that information could be obtained from other sources, not just from Lamo's chat logs, if it's true.


Of course reine you may be correct.
Do you have any links?


So it can be true that:
Manning received preferential treatment, evidence to be had from other sources, and
There is no additional relevant info in the chat logs,
thus
Greenwald's position is in no way supported by the lack of additional relevant information in the chat logs.

W know the FBI did take Lamo's computer.

Its Greenwalds contention that Assange was not a co-conspirator.
Lamo seemed to claim he was, through giving him special treatment.

This is the only info I have seen that suggests the co-conspirator role.

And so far unless you can help me it is the only info available that suggested the co-conspirator role, which now it apparently does not.

36 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:52:30pm
Wired magazine has published excerpts from logs of online chats between Mr. Lamo and Private Manning. But the sections in which Private Manning is said to detail contacts with Mr. Assange are not among them. Mr. Lamo described them from memory in an interview with The Times, but he said he could not provide the full chat transcript because the F.B.I. had taken his hard drive, on which it was saved.

So, either Lamo didn't provide the entirety of the chat transcripts to Wired, or he did and what he says is in them isn't. Has he said he provided every single chat transcript to Wired?

37 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:52:31pm

re: #34 Charles

In any case, the only person any of this affects is Assange. The chats contain more than enough to send Manning to jail for a very long time.

If there was a server set up, and files were transferred to it by Manning, the government already has all the details about it.

let the plea bargaining begin.

38 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:52:54pm

re: #3 Charles

Not to put too fine a point on it, it's nuts. Wired is in business to draw eyeballs, just like Greenwald is. If they had something big they would have published it.

My apologies in advance on being all over the map with this post, I'm still trying to digest the details and get a better grasp of what the entire mess is about.

But Charles, I have to disagree with such a blanket statement. There have been many times in which organizations won't report or release information at the request of the Government. In addition, there are points in which if the information is negative towards their own organization, they may opt not to publish out of self interest (which looks less likely here). And quite simply there may not be anything additional worth releasing. Or heck, maybe there's stuff Lamo doesn't want released and could make Lamo look bad. Or maybe there's stuff that's unrelated and could be requested by the government to not be released either. Ugh. Brain hurts.

The fascinating thing about the snippets released is how utterly shop talk they are. And yet the most damning information released against Assange is that he set up a server for Manning to dump the information onto. That's a pretty thin thread to try to indict on conspiracy. Lamo is making claims and so far they're unsubstantiated by what's been released. which is the central point that people are missing. Ironically enough, if anything, Assange looks better if in fact this is the worst of it.

So now we have Manning remaining in solitary confinement and being pressured to cooperate against Assange. And for better or worse he either has nothing substantial to give or has been unwilling to give additional information to the Investigators. If nothing else, it's interesting to see how the government will build their case.

39 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:53:31pm

Greenwald is a proven liar an asshat.
There's not enough grains of salt in existence to take him seriously.

40 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:53:38pm

re: #37 brookly red

let the plea bargaining begin.

It's already begun quite a while ago…

41 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:54:22pm

re: #36 goddamnedfrank

So, either Lamo didn't provide the entirety of the chat transcripts to Wired, or he did and what he says is in them isn't. Has he said he provided every single chat transcript to Wired?

That's what Lamo says - he didn't give Wired everything.

42 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:54:30pm

re: #40 000G

It's already begun quite a while ago…

Wrong link. Correct one: [Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

43 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:55:54pm

re: #36 goddamnedfrank

So, either Lamo didn't provide the entirety of the chat transcripts to Wired, or he did and what he says is in them isn't. Has he said he provided every single chat transcript to Wired?

See also: [Link: fdlaction.firedoglake.com...]

44 freetoken  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:56:26pm

re: #30 000G

Giving some props to Wired: Top Scientific Breakthroughs of 2010

Well, they lost me at #3. Wired really ought not to have pushed a proposition (the universe is recycled), whose proposed evidence has since been discounted, as a "top scientific breakthrough".

45 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:57:29pm

Totally off topic.....
If "Home is where the heart is " Why am I not not on a secluded beach
in Honduras???
Been splitting fire wood the old fashioned way....Electric/Hydrolic splitter!!!

46 brookly red  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:58:50pm

re: #40 000G

It's already begun quite a while ago…

guilty as sin, free as a bird. strange world we live in.

47 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:59:30pm

re: #41 Charles

That's what Lamo says - he didn't give Wired everything.

It seems to be getting more confusing all the time as wired says they have the complete unedited logs.

48 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:00:04pm

re: #47 ozbloke

It seems to be getting more confusing all the time as wired says they have the complete unedited logs.

No, they say they have complete unedited copies of everything Lamo gave them.

49 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:00:36pm

Could this explain Manning's predicament?

[Link: www2.insidenova.com...]

[Link: s426.photobucket.com...]

50 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:07:11pm

re: #38 bloodstar

I dunno - I have kind of a hard time seeing Wired Magazine as a puppet of The Man.

It's true that media outlets have sometimes held back on publishing things when the government requests it, but I don't see why the government would request it in this case. If we use Occam's Razor on this, the most likely possibility is that Lamo is telling the truth and that there's more on whatever hard drives the FBI seized. Somewhat less likely is that he's mistaken or lying about it.

The government isn't going to be telling Glenn Greenwald what's on Lamo's hard drives, though.

51 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:09:54pm

re: #48 Charles

No, they say they have complete unedited copies of everything Lamo gave them.

Is that how you read this?


Email: Poulsen to Greenwald:

>Last question: you published what were clearly excerpts of the chats
>between Lamo and Manning - did he provide you with the whole unedited
>version and if, so, do you intend to publish it? Or is what you
>published everything he gave you?

He did, but I don't think we'll be publishing more any time soon. The remainder is either Manning discussing personal matters that aren't clearly related to his arrest, or apparently sensitive government information that I'm not throwing up without vetting first.

[Link: utdocuments.blogspot.com...]

52 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:11:20pm

re: #35 ozbloke

Of course reine you may be correct.
Do you have any links?

W know the FBI did take Lamo's computer.

Its Greenwalds contention that Assange was not a co-conspirator.
Lamo seemed to claim he was, through giving him special treatment.

This is the only info I have seen that suggests the co-conspirator role.

And so far unless you can help me it is the only info available that suggested the co-conspirator role, which now it apparently does not.

No, I have no links.

It just seems logical to me that if there was a set-up where Manning could preferentially send along the information, then evidence of it must be available somehow, somewhere. Charles seems to think it is, and I trust that he would know.

I am not technical enough to know how that's done. I suspect some of the anon folks might be? Which is why they go through such hoops to try to remain anon???

53 jaunte  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:12:47pm

If Lamo is Wired's source, why does Greenwald have standing to ask them for more information?

54 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:13:39pm

re: #50 Charles

It's true that media outlets have sometimes held back on publishing things when the government requests it, but I don't see why the government would request it in this case.

If I get Greenwald correct, he seems to be insinuating that Wired is protecting Lamo because Poulsen and him are old buddies or something.

55 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:15:09pm

re: #50 Charles

I dunno - I have kind of a hard time seeing Wired Magazine as a puppet of The Man.

It's true that media outlets have sometimes held back on publishing things when the government requests it, but I don't see why the government would request it in this case. If we use Occam's Razor on this, the most likely possibility is that Lamo is telling the truth and that there's more on whatever hard drives the FBI seized. Somewhat less likely is that he's mistaken or lying about it.

The government isn't going to be telling Glenn Greenwald what's on Lamo's hard drives, though.

I'm guessing a guy like Lamo doesn't go to public without backing up his hard drives first, so he's probably telling the truth but now can't prove it without pissing off the FBI who think they seized everything. He should probably just stop talking for awhile.

56 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:15:53pm

re: #54 000G

If I get Greenwald correct, he seems to be insinuating that Wired is protecting Lamo because Poulsen and him are old buddies or something.

Greenwald is also a proven liar.
Why take anything he says at face value?

57 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:18:06pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

Greenwald is also a proven liar.
Why take anything he says at face value?

I am not taking anything he says at face value. I am just analyzing his argument.

58 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:19:00pm

German satire TV magazine experimenting with letting a reporter of theirs film sensitive security places in Berlin – once as a normal tourist, once dressed up as an Arab:

59 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:19:13pm

re: #57 000G

I am not taking anything he says at face value. I am just analyzing his argument.

He's pissing in the wind, that's the easiest thing about all this to figure out.

60 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:37:52pm

A second claim that wired has the full chat logs:

Apart from US law officials, the Wired journalists are the only individuals known to have copies of the full chat.

Wired journalists deny cover-up over WikiLeaks boss and accused US soldier

61 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:41:51pm

re: #60 ozbloke

If Wired does have all the transcripts, then it's more likely that Lamo is mistaken or lying. In either case it's still inconsequential. If a server was set up the government will have proof from other avenues.

62 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:43:18pm

re: #60 ozbloke

A second claim that wired has the full chat logs:

Apart from US law officials, the Wired journalists are the only individuals known to have copies of the full chat.

Wired journalists deny cover-up over WikiLeaks boss and accused US soldier

I think you're splitting hairs for no reason. Why is it important if they have the full chat or parts of it? They may have a partial tanscript and only published the relevant parts of what they have. Either way I don't think it's important.

63 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:48:14pm

re: #61 Charles

If Wired does have all the transcripts, then it's more likely that Lamo is mistaken or lying. In either case it's still inconsequential. If a server was set up the government will have proof from other avenues.

I accept that.
However the internet chatter about Assange being a co-conspirator was built around the claims of Lamo, and that is all we have to go on.

I do not see how Greenwald comes out looking bad in this, (subject of the thread), which is not saying that Greenwald is a truth teller.
But he was trying to suggest there was no conspiricy between Assange and Manning the opposite of what Lamo was saying.
He was looking for the evidence of Lamo's accusations.

In this he seems to be vindicated.
Does't mean he is not an ahole.

64 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:49:52pm

re: #63 ozbloke

vindicated? really?

65 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:50:20pm

re: #64 Aceofwhat?

vindicated? really?

Yeah...
Nope.

66 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:50:41pm

re: #63 ozbloke

Have you read all the articles between Greenwald and Poulsen, including the one where Greenwald falsely claims that the man who prosecuted Poulsen and sent him to jail is somehow involved?

67 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:50:57pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

I think you're splitting hairs for no reason. Why is it important if they have the full chat or parts of it? They may have a partial tanscript and only published the relevant parts of what they have. Either way I don't think it's important.

If wired has only partial transcripts, the Lamo could be correct.
If wired have all the transcripts and has released 'all relevant parts' then Lamo's statements are conjecture.

68 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:51:39pm

re: #67 ozbloke

If wired has only partial transcripts, the Lamo could be correct.
If wired have all the transcripts and has released 'all relevant parts' then Lamo's statements are conjecture.

Conjecture is what you're doing as well.
;)

69 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:52:27pm

re: #68 Varek Raith

Conjecture is what you're doing as well.
;)

Yes its a discussion, I am not privy to all the facts.
Have an Up ding.

70 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:52:42pm

re: #68 Varek Raith

Conjecture is what you're doing as well.
;)

It's also what most of us are doing.
None of us here has any of the facts that the Feds likely have.

71 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:52:45pm

Snort.


Cold bobcats will soon wake up in these mountains, and look for mice to eat. (Towercam)

This is better, and real, news.

& Merry Christmas! (it goes for 12 days).

72 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:54:02pm

re: #71 Ojoe

Snort.

Cold bobcats will soon wake up in these mountains, and look for mice to eat. (Towercam)

This is better, and real, news.

& Merry Christmas! (it goes for 12 days).

Bad url.

73 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:54:33pm

re: #71 Ojoe

Dead Link.

74 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:54:51pm

re: #71 Ojoe

Snort.

Cold bobcats will soon wake up in these mountains, and look for mice to eat. (Towercam)

This is better, and real, news.

& Merry Christmas! (it goes for 12 days).

Linky no worky.

Here you go.
Oh.. no pic?

75 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:55:37pm

re: #74 Varek Raith

Linky no worky.

Here you go.
Oh.. no pic?

Ruh-roh, I broked the towercam...
D

76 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:56:26pm

re: #75 Varek Raith

Ruh-roh, I broked the towercam...
D

It's very dark in California right now...

77 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:57:36pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

Your text to link...

Here it is again?

It just went blank too, something is up with the Towercam.

78 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:58:33pm

I'll post the Towercam when it comes back. It is my default opening page so I will know soon enough.

79 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:58:56pm

re: #75 Varek Raith

Ruh-roh, I broked the towercam...
D

your aim is improving...

80 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:59:43pm

re: #79 Aceofwhat?

your aim is improving...

Or I missed the towercam and blew up the sun...
We'll know in about 8 minutes...
*crosses fingers*

81 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:00:28pm

re: #63 ozbloke

I accept that.
However the internet chatter about Assange being a co-conspirator was built around the claims of Lamo, and that is all we have to go on.

I do not see how Greenwald comes out looking bad in this, (subject of the thread), which is not saying that Greenwald is a truth teller.
But he was trying to suggest there was no conspiricy between Assange and Manning the opposite of what Lamo was saying.
He was looking for the evidence of Lamo's accusations.

In this he seems to be vindicated.
Does't mean he is not an ahole.

There's no way Greenwald is vindicated.

82 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:02:34pm

re: #81 reine.de.tout

There's no way Greenwald is vindicated.

Maybe vindicated is the wrong word.

I don't see how Greenwald comes off looking bad when wired's headline confirms Greenwalds contention that there is nothing to back up Lamo's claim.

83 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:03:13pm

re: #81 reine.de.tout

There's no way Greenwald is vindicated.

I'm pretty sure the claims about a dedicated server have been made by Assange himself so I'm kinda missing the point here.

84 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:04:17pm

re: #80 Varek Raith

Or I missed the towercam and blew up the sun...
We'll know in about 8 minutes...
*crosses fingers*

all right...stop right there, and i'll bring back the sun

85 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:05:31pm

re: #84 Aceofwhat?

all right...stop right there, and i'll bring back the sun


[Video]

"We need a plan..."

86 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:06:16pm

All the seafood talk last night inspired me to go out and buy a mackerel for the grill tomorrow night. 2 pound at 4 bucks a pound. I figure I'll get 4 big meals out of it.

87 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:06:50pm

re: #82 ozbloke

Maybe vindicated is the wrong word.

I don't see how Greenwald comes off looking bad when wired's headline confirms Greenwalds contention that there is nothing to back up Lamo's claim.

uhh...the part where he claims that they're withholding something 'newsworthy in the extreme'? unless he can make things up, hyperventilate, and not come off looking bad in your eyes.

me, i tend to file that under 'looking bad'. but that's just me.

88 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:07:51pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

All the seafood talk last night inspired me to go out and buy a mackerel for the grill tomorrow night. 2 pound at 4 bucks a pound. I figure I'll get 4 big meals out of it.

how will you flavor it?

89 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:08:23pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure the claims about a dedicated server have been made by Assange himself so I'm kinda missing the point here.

There has to be a server to upload the documents to.
Charles has a dedicated server, any large site will have.

What Lamo was claiming as I understand it, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong is that Assange had setup a server dedicated for Manning to dump the documents to, which could make him a co-conspirator in the theft of the documents, which is apparently not supported in the chat logs.

Greenwalds pushing of this issue confirms this.

91 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:10:06pm

re: #82 ozbloke


I don't see how Greenwald comes off looking bad

also, didn't he get personal?

92 sod  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:13:34pm

Wired should just release the long-form chat log.

93 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:15:33pm

re: #89 ozbloke

But that's Lamo's claim, not Poulsen's, so what does it have to do with Greenwald's flettle-specked rage against Poulsen?

94 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:16:38pm

re: #88 Aceofwhat?

how will you flavor it?

Probably just salt pepper and olive oil. Give it a squeeze of lemon juice and olive oil drizzle just before serving.

95 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:17:46pm

re: #82 ozbloke

Maybe vindicated is the wrong word.

I don't see how Greenwald comes off looking bad when wired's headline confirms Greenwalds contention that there is nothing to back up Lamo's claim.

Wired's headline says THEY have nothing.
It doesn't mean there ISN'T anything.

96 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:17:46pm

re: #87 Aceofwhat?

uhh...the part where he claims that they're withholding something 'newsworthy in the extreme'? unless he can make things up, hyperventilate, and not come off looking bad in your eyes.

me, i tend to file that under 'looking bad'. but that's just me.

If wired did support Lamo's version of the story, then they had not shown any evidence of the validity of the claim regarding the dedicated server.

If they didn't support it they gave voice to it without evidence.

The fact that they had not questioned Lamo's statement might suggest that they 'knew/beleived it was true'.

Therefore the assumption is, if you believe it, then its because you are seeing something you have not released.
Greenwald called them on that because what they had released didn't show it.

If they did have the evidence then that would have been newsworthy.

97 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:18:17pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Probably just salt pepper and olive oil. Give it a squeeze of lemon juice and olive oil drizzle just before serving.

i just had a protein bar for dinner...you win/

98 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:18:26pm

re: #95 reine.de.tout

Wired's headline says THEY have nothing.
It doesn't mean there ISN'T anything.

It does as far as the chat logs are concerned because they claim to have everything.

99 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:19:58pm

re: #98 ozbloke

It does as far as the chat logs are concerned because they claim to have everything.

Well, I'm lost in this conversation.

100 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:21:43pm

re: #96 ozbloke

If wired did support Lamo's version of the story, then they had not shown any evidence of the validity of the claim regarding the dedicated server.

If they didn't support it they gave voice to it without evidence.

The fact that they had not questioned Lamo's statement might suggest that they 'knew/beleived it was true'.

Therefore the assumption is, if you believe it, then its because you are seeing something you have not released.
Greenwald called them on that because what they had released didn't show it.

If they did have the evidence then that would have been newsworthy.

Put more succinctly: "If Greenwald had not been either shamefully mistaken or lying, he would have been correct."

Yes. I agree with you.

101 sod  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:21:45pm

re: #89 ozbloke

I'm not really following this but the idea of "setting up a dedicated server" for manning to upload to sounds absurd to me. If anything Assange may have created a special ftp account on an already existing server for Manning to use.

Amounts to the same thing I guess but sounds more plausible a scenario to me.

102 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:22:35pm

See ya tomorrow, lizards. Thanks for sending my karma over 20,000. I think it happened yesterday or so...

Image: bc769369-e478-445a-a8b5-10409e6494b5.jpg

103 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:25:04pm

re: #100 Aceofwhat?

Put more succinctly: "If Greenwald had not been either shamefully mistaken or lying, he would have been correct."

Yes. I agree with you.

Succinctly what is shows is that the chat logs do not support Lamo's contention that Assange was a co-conspiritor with Manning as I read it.

Your mileage may vary.

104 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:25:23pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm lost in this conversation.

Not really. It's a pointless argument from Assange apologists (like arguing about the leaderless ethereal nature of Anon). Assange couldn't be convicted on the basis of a chat log anyways. If he did assist Manning they'll need more evidence than that.

105 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:25:52pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm lost in this conversation.

Me too.

106 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:26:12pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Not really. It's a pointless argument from Assange apologists (like arguing about the leaderless ethereal nature of Anon). Assange couldn't be convicted on the basis of a chat log anyways. If he did assist Manning they'll need more evidence than that.

I'm an Assange apologists?
Again?

107 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:27:23pm

Powerful virus attacks Android phones in China

A powerful virus targeting smart phones in China running Google's Android operating system may be the most sophisticated bug to target mobile devices to date, security researchers say.

108 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:34:16pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Not really. It's a pointless argument from Assange apologists (like arguing about the leaderless ethereal nature of Anon). Assange couldn't be convicted on the basis of a chat log anyways. If he did assist Manning they'll need more evidence than that.

It was just easier to say "I'm lost".

109 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:34:59pm

re: #106 ozbloke

I'm an Assange apologists?
Again?

you're right. Greenwald apologist may be more apropos in this thread...

110 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:37:54pm

re: #109 Aceofwhat?

you're right. Greenwald apologist may be more apropos in this thread...

Other than the term 'vindicated' which I suggested may be the wrong term already, can you point anything that I stated that was incorrect.

111 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:38:35pm

re: #103 ozbloke

Succinctly what is shows is that the chat logs do not support Lamo's contention that Assange was a co-conspiritor with Manning as I read it.

Your mileage may vary.

And if the chat logs do not support it, so what?
It is very possible that Lamo's contention is supported by something else, isn't it?

Greenwald seems to have locked on to one specific source as his be-all, end-all acceptable source, but it isn't necessarily the only acceptable source that exists in the world, is it? Wired may have seen the evidence, but doesn't have access to it for release. I mean, that is not far-fetched, is it?

That's why this is so confusing to me. If the chat logs do not support something, it doesn't mean that the something isn't true - it only means that the chat logs don't support it. That's all. Period. End of it.

112 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:44:18pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Not really. It's a pointless argument from Assange apologists (like arguing about the leaderless ethereal nature of Anon). Assange couldn't be convicted on the basis of a chat log anyways. If he did assist Manning they'll need more evidence than that.

not convicted, but the logs are admissible as evidence against him

113 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:44:52pm

re: #105 Varek Raith

Me too.

shoulda brought some bread crumbs

114 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:49:19pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

And if the chat logs do not support it, so what?
It is very possible that Lamo's contention is supported by something else, isn't it?

Greenwald seems to have locked on to one specific source as his be-all, end-all acceptable source, but it isn't necessarily the only acceptable source that exists in the world, is it? Wired may have seen the evidence, but doesn't have access to it for release. I mean, that is not far-fetched, is it?

That's why this is so confusing to me. If the chat logs do not support something, it doesn't mean that the something isn't true - it only means that the chat logs don't support it. That's all. Period. End of it.

The Greenwald / Wired connection is the subject of this thread.

Maybe I can help you with this:
By what right does he steal and publish classified information, and what gives him the right to usurp my rights?

I don't think Assange stole anything, as I have not seen anything that would suggest he had.

115 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:50:46pm

re: #110 ozbloke

Other than the term 'vindicated' which I suggested may be the wrong term already, can you point anything that I stated that was incorrect.

sure. let's keep it simple and start with something recent...#103 was incorrect insofar as it is a non-sequitur. it is wholly unrelated to my statement concerning, and the subject of the thread concerning Greenwald's invective about Wired's purposeful and extensive editing of the logs in order to distort what was revealed therein.

since i have found you to generally be an intelligent person, it is far more likely to me that you are attempting to defend Greenwald, as opposed to being unaware that your reply had absolutely nothing to do with my statement, or the thread.

116 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:52:29pm

re: #114 ozbloke

The Greenwald / Wired connection is the subject of this thread.

Maybe I can help you with this:
By what right does he steal and publish classified information, and what gives him the right to usurp my rights?

I don't think Assange stole anything, as I have not seen anything that would suggest he had.

possessing stolen goods is a crime most everywhere

117 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:52:58pm

re: #112 albusteve

not convicted, but the logs are admissible as evidence against him

i've had both the cheese logs as well as the fruitcake submitted as evidence against me

118 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:53:30pm

re: #112 albusteve

not convicted, but the logs are admissible as evidence against him



They might but....

Still, prosecutors would most likely need more than a chat transcript laying out such claims to implicate Mr. Assange, Professor Richman said. Even if prosecutors could prove that it was Private Manning writing the messages to Mr. Lamo, a court might deem the whole discussion as inadmissible hearsay evidence.
119 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:54:17pm

re: #116 albusteve

possessing stolen goods is a crime most everywhere

Agreed, to be in possession does not equal being the person who stole.
Do you agree?

120 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:55:46pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout


They might but...

preponderance or whatever they call it...it all adds up, and the chats would certainly hurt him...not hang him by themselves, but I'm no lawyer

121 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:56:38pm

re: #119 ozbloke

Agreed, to be in possession does not equal being the person who stole.
Do you agree?

that's pretty obvious, Capt'n

122 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 4:57:07pm

re: #117 engineer dog

i've had both the cheese logs as well as the fruitcake submitted as evidence against me

rolled by a log?

123 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:00:28pm

re: #121 albusteve

that's pretty obvious, Capt'n

Sorry I may have missed something, why did you post #116 to me?

124 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:02:56pm

re: #115 Aceofwhat?

sure. let's keep it simple and start with something recent...#103 was incorrect insofar as it is a non-sequitur. it is wholly unrelated to my statement concerning, and the subject of the thread concerning Greenwald's invective about Wired's purposeful and extensive editing of the logs in order to distort what was revealed therein.

since i have found you to generally be an intelligent person, it is far more likely to me that you are attempting to defend Greenwald, as opposed to being unaware that your reply had absolutely nothing to do with my statement, or the thread.

To put more succinctly: "No I did not find anything untruthful about what you said."

Yes. I agree with you.
So nothing

126 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:03:58pm

re: #123 ozbloke

Sorry I may have missed something, why did you post #116 to me?

seemed like a good idea to point out that receiving stolen goods is a crime....just a bit of sugar on the pie

127 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:04:14pm

re: #119 ozbloke

Agreed, to be in possession does not equal being the person who stole.
Do you agree?

only in a strict legal definition. colloqually, they're frequently both referred to as 'stealing'. i don't care if you stole my watch or fenced my watch; either way, you stole it. see what i mean?

128 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:04:18pm

If you were watching the Spy a few minutes ago you might have seen 'nudebabeq' register. That was the third attempt to register by what looks like some kind of spambot, originating in:

City: Trogir
Region: Zadarska
Country: Croatia

Previous names:

celebritynudeh
babenudei

129 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:04:25pm
130 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:05:56pm

re: #128 Charles

If you were watching the Spy a few minutes ago you might have seen 'nudebabeq' register. That was the third attempt to register by what looks like some kind of spambot, originating in:

City: Trogir
Region: Zadarska
Country: Croatia

Previous names:

celebritynudeh
babenudei

Looks like a spam porn bot, you might want to broaden the ips you ban.
Have you seen the tables provided by ip2country?

131 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:06:32pm
132 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:06:53pm

re: #124 ozbloke

To put more succinctly: "No I did not find anything untruthful about what you said."

Yes. I agree with you.
So nothing

fair enough. it is not necessary to lie in order to be an apologist. i am not accusing you of lying - far from it - but rather of tap-dancing around the main point.

and tap-dancing is not a crime, so it is a rather gentle accusation.

133 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:06:54pm

I'm going to put in some code to prevent bots from registering entirely - the same token-based system I use with the contact form.

134 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:07:13pm

re: #127 Aceofwhat?

only in a strict legal definition. colloqually, they're frequently both referred to as 'stealing'. i don't care if you stole my watch or fenced my watch; either way, you stole it. see what i mean?

No, and thats why possession is a separate crime.
/ And you Sir, you have no watch....
Koran burner reference.

135 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:07:34pm

City: Trogir
Region: Zadarska
Country: Croatia

did the emigrate there from Trollhattan?

136 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:08:56pm

re: #127 Aceofwhat?

only in a strict legal definition. colloqually, they're frequently both referred to as 'stealing'. i don't care if you stole my watch or fenced my watch; either way, you stole it. see what i mean?

A person who is known to publish secret information obtained by others, who makes it known that he is in that particular business, becomes, then, the magnet for people wishing to take and disseminate information. He has become the thief, just as much as the person who does the actual thieving.

That's how I see it, anyhow.

137 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:09:57pm

A Croat and a Robot walk into a bar...

138 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:12:04pm

Looks like another Fox News fail....
Police: Fox News Flubbed 'Granny Terrorist' Story

FoxNews.com reporter Jana Winter published a story last week claiming that Fox News had "learned" of a federal investigation into the alleged terrorist ties of Kathie Smith, a "46-year-old, blue-eyed grandmother and U.S. citizen from Indiana." The story was quickly pulled down and scrubbed from the website, but not before TPM grabbed a copy.

FoxNews.com posted a revised version of the story on Tuesday. Fox's story glosses over the role that its own reporter had in alerting Indiana authorities to Smith and what can only be called her unique brand of "jihadism."

As for the investigation, it's unclear if the feds are probing Smith, and the Indiana State Police -- the recipient of Fox's tip -- tells TPM they have no active investigation.

"I think some of the information Fox reported was kind of taken out of context," Indiana state police spokesman David Bursten told TPM. "I can tell you that the Indiana state police as a law enforcement agency is not involved in any kind of active investigation on her."

139 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:12:45pm

I do not know how these people judge what is newsworthy. I do know that most journalism majors go by the old axiom of: "Dog bites Man" is not news, "Man bites Dog" is news. And in recent years some journalism majors have been writing fiction to get a "Man bites Dog" story.

140 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:12:50pm

re: #137 Rightwingconspirator

A Croat and a Robot walk into a bar...

can i Servo you anything?

141 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:13:14pm

re: #134 ozbloke

No, and thats why possession is a separate crime.
/ And you Sir, you have no watch...
Koran burner reference.

have an upding.

in return, note kindly that the point being made is that Assange committed a crime, not that the appellation of the crime is a meaningful distinction. that's a point that i imagine an Assange apologist would make, since there is no other reason apart from malignant pedantry to object thus.

and i would never call you a malignant pedant.

142 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:13:43pm

re: #132 Aceofwhat?

fair enough. it is not necessary to lie in order to be an apologist. i am not accusing you of lying - far from it - but rather of tap-dancing around the main point.

and tap-dancing is not a crime, so it is a rather gentle accusation.

Ace, I don't feel I'm tap dancing, I disagreed outright with Charles upthread.
This thread is about Wired / Greenwald

I think Greenwald has placed Lamo's creditability on the issue of a dedicated server in question.

I believe thats suits Greenwald for better or worse.

Sure you and I won't convict him on it, but we only ever have the net to have our convo's over.
So we all speculate.

In what way do you see this as harming Greenwald?

143 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:13:47pm

re: #140 engineer dog
LOL

144 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:14:10pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

A person who is known to publish secret information obtained by others, who makes it known that he is in that particular business, becomes, then, the magnet for people wishing to take and disseminate information. He has become the thief, just as much as the person who does the actual thieving.

That's how I see it, anyhow.

exactly. in casual conversation, the fence and the pickpocket are both guilty of theft, especially when we're only trying to make the point that the fence is guilty of something.

145 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:15:40pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

A person who is known to publish secret information obtained by others, who makes it known that he is in that particular business, becomes, then, the magnet for people wishing to take and disseminate information. He has become the thief, just as much as the person who does the actual thieving.

That's how I see it, anyhow.

reine, with respect the press do this often.
If if was that simple he could have been charged ages ago.

146 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:16:30pm

Billy the Kid has not been pardoned yet...Bill Richardson has til tomorrow to decide if the Kid deserves one....the world is watching the drama unfold

147 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:17:04pm

re: #144 Aceofwhat?

The fence is guilty of selling stolen goods.

148 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:17:12pm

re: #141 Aceofwhat?

have an upding.

in return, note kindly that the point being made is that Assange committed a crime, not that the appellation of the crime is a meaningful distinction. that's a point that i imagine an Assange apologist would make, since there is no other reason apart from malignant pedantry to object thus.

and i would never call you a malignant pedant.

Not without your teeth in anyways.

149 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:18:19pm

re: #142 ozbloke

Ace, I don't feel I'm tap dancing, I disagreed outright with Charles upthread.
This thread is about Wired / Greenwald

I think Greenwald has placed Lamo's creditability on the issue of a dedicated server in question.

I believe thats suits Greenwald for better or worse.

Sure you and I won't convict him on it, but we only ever have the net to have our convo's over.
So we all speculate.

In what way do you see this as harming Greenwald?

when do we get to the part where you address Greenwald's, oh, how did i put it above...*scrolls upwards*..."Greenwald's invective about Wired's [supposedly -ed] purposeful and extensive editing of the logs in order to distort what was revealed therein."

?

150 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:21:42pm

re: #147 Floral Giraffe

The fence is guilty of selling stolen goods.

exactly. they are a criminal, just like the pickpocket. protesting that the fence is technically not a thief, to me, sounds a lot like this...and Oz was protesting that a certain someone was not a thief.

(i dare you to watch that and not laugh)

151 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:22:21pm

My bad, it's "receipt of stolen property".
Enwikipedia..
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

152 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:23:13pm

re: #148 ozbloke

Not without your teeth in anyways.

i duel with small green fuzzy spheres, and if you're ever in Jacksonville, bring your stringed weapon and we'll fight like civilized men;)

153 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:23:35pm

re: #145 ozbloke

reine, with respect the press do this often.
If if was that simple he could have been charged ages ago.

I'm again lost.
What are we talking about? It seems to keep changing.
Are we talking about charges being brought against Assange?

I'm not the gov't, and so I will never bring charges against Assange.
I am a private citizen, and I can look at information and facts, and yes, I can draw a conclusion that a person has been engaged in nefarious activities. And I can do that, even if Glenn Greenwald decides that a particular source of information doesn't fit his personal needs for information.

The "presumption of innocence" does not apply to a private citizen's thought process. I can legally draw the conclusion that Assange has engaged in activities that are not to my liking, and that very well may be illegal (see my post that you linked to earlier, upthread).

If you are interested in a discussion of how "innocent until proven guilty" plays in US law and life, this might be helpful.

NOTE: There is no requirement for a private citizen to ignore whatever information is available when making a private determination that a person is an asshole and an idiot, and engaged in very shady activities.

All of the above is presented on my assumption that the conversation changed per your last comment to me, where you started talking about somebody being charged with something, which I assume you were talking about Assange being charged with something, along with your prominent display of a previous post of mine where I accuse Assange of stealing and you disagree.

154 Buck  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:23:54pm

re: #133 Charles

I'm going to put in some code to prevent bots from registering entirely - the same token-based system I use with the contact form.

"Droids are not allowed inside"

155 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:24:20pm

re: #151 Floral Giraffe

My bad, it's "receipt of stolen property".
Enwikipedia..
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

ego te absolvo

156 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:24:29pm

re: #150 Aceofwhat?

He took lessons from Richard Simmons.
No, I'm not linking anything!

157 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:25:21pm

re: #156 Floral Giraffe

He took lessons from Richard Simmons.
No, I'm not linking anything!

i just wanted you to watch that clip;)

158 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:27:10pm

re: #153 reine.de.tout

I'm again lost.
What are we talking about? It seems to keep changing.
Are we talking about charges being brought against Assange?

I was replying to #136, who were you referring to?

159 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:28:11pm

re: #157 Aceofwhat?

I didn't watch much of it...
You're mean!

160 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:29:49pm

re: #158 ozbloke

You seem to repeatedly be saying that all Greenwald has done is assert that Lamo's statement about the servers is inaccurate.

You're ignoring, for whatever reason, everything else Greenwald has alleged, some of it immediately, factually disproven.

Why are you ignoring everything else?

161 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:30:52pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout


Not really. It's a pointless argument from Assange apologists (like arguing about the leaderless ethereal nature of Anon). Assange couldn't be convicted on the basis of a chat log anyways. If he did assist Manning they'll need more evidence than that.

re: #106 ozbloke

I'm an Assange apologists?
Again?

Killgore,
Are you gonna back this up, apologize, or just drop this turd and ignore me?

162 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:31:13pm

Assange, and my opinion. I said nothing about charges. You brought up the "charges".

163 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:32:31pm

time to punt

164 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:32:47pm

re: #161 ozbloke

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Killgore,
Are you gonna back this up, apologize, or just drop this turd and ignore me?

I'm going to ignore you. It's pointless and tiresome.

165 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:35:17pm

re: #161 ozbloke

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Killgore,
Are you gonna back this up, apologize, or just drop this turd and ignore me?

Ozbloke, Killgore owes you no apology.
You are in this thread, sneaking around, avoiding some issues, confusing issues by bringing up new ones, and to all appearances, you seem to be, yes, an apologist for Assange (and Greenwald).

Instead of questioning us on our thoughts/opinions/statements - would you be so kind as to simply state where you stand on all of this, just as concisely and clearly as you can?

A question to our host, or to any of us, doesn't count as a clear statement of what your position is, IMO. Just tell us what you think.

166 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:36:28pm

re: #161 ozbloke

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Killgore,
Are you gonna back this up, apologize, or just drop this turd and ignore me?

see #150

167 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:38:18pm

re: #166 Aceofwhat?

see #150

Are you going to join Reine now and say Assange stole the documents?

168 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:38:33pm

re: #166 Aceofwhat?

see #150

OMG, that's awful.
It's like Lawrence Welk, updated by 10 years or so.

169 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:40:44pm

re: #167 ozbloke

Would you agree that Assange knew he was receiving stolen documents?

170 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:42:04pm

re: #167 ozbloke

Are you going to join Reine now and say Assange stole the documents?

Reine is, if i may be forgiven for presuming, saying that Assange is in possession of stolen property, which in casual conversation, is easily shortened to 'stole'.

I am joining Reine to say that Assange is a criminal. Pretending that her shorthand 'stole' is some sort of confusion on her part = dodging the point.

171 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:42:11pm

re: #167 ozbloke

Are you going to join Reine now and say Assange stole the documents?

you should have punted...when I read some of your posts, I see...spaghetti

172 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:42:18pm

re: #167 ozbloke

Are you going to join Reine now and say Assange stole the documents?

In my opinion, based on information I have seen:
Manning stole information and passed it to Assange, who had a network for dissemination.
Assange decided to use his network and disseminate the information, thus completing the theft.

That is an example of a clear and concise statement of a person's position on this.
Care to share yours?

173 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:42:21pm

re: #169 Floral Giraffe

Would you agree that Assange knew he was receiving stolen documents?

Absolutely, in the same way as any other media does.

174 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:42:42pm

re: #168 reine.de.tout

OMG, that's awful.
It's like Lawrence Welk, updated by 10 years or so.

...but you laughed, didn't you...and that was my only goal;)

175 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:43:17pm

re: #170 Aceofwhat?

Reine is, if i may be forgiven for presuming, saying that Assange is in possession of stolen property, which in casual conversation, is easily shortened to 'stole'.

I am joining Reine to say that Assange is a criminal. Pretending that her shorthand 'stole' is some sort of confusion on her part = dodging the point.

:-)

176 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:43:56pm

re: #173 ozbloke

Absolutely, in the same way as any other media does.

pssst...this is what some of us like to call "apologizing"...just trying to clear that up for you...

177 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:44:29pm

re: #173 ozbloke

I would disagree, it seems to me that Assange was actively soliciting stolen documents. And, I do NOT consider his organization "journalists".

178 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:46:47pm

re: #170 Aceofwhat?

Reine is, if i may be forgiven for presuming, saying that Assange is in possession of stolen property, which in casual conversation, is easily shortened to 'stole'.

I am joining Reine to say that Assange is a criminal. Pretending that her shorthand 'stole' is some sort of confusion on her part = dodging the point.

Ace, I may have a limited vocabulary, and not as eloquent as some but:


By what right does he steal and publish classified information, and what gives him the right to usurp my rights?

I didn't see that as vague, as she has repeated here on this thread that whether 'he stole' or 'was in possession of' is the same thing.

Under the law it is not, as I believe Floral may have linked to.

179 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:48:53pm
180 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:48:55pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

A person who is known to publish secret information obtained by others, who makes it known that he is in that particular business, becomes, then, the magnet for people wishing to take and disseminate information. He has become the thief, just as much as the person who does the actual thieving.

That's how I see it, anyhow.

IMO that would make Assange more like a fence.

I read the articles referenced today, but I still feel lost. This is what I get so far::

1.) In the Guardian article Lamo says his assertion about the chat logs containing a discussion about an FTP server allegedly set up by Assange & used by Manning are "based on memory".

2.) Wired, being the sole possessor—apart from the FBI—of the entirety of the chat logs, says there's nothing in the unreleased portions of the logs to further support Lamo's claim. If the FBI has the same logs, then they have identical evidence (which, on its own, is not likely enough to build a case against Assange, even if they could prove that it was indeed Manning & Assange behind the keyboards during the chats).

3.) Greenwald contends that Lamo and/or Wired are lying, based on a huge amount of stuff about past associations that made my head ache. Interesting if true, but nothing concrete as far as I could tell.

Did I get that correct? If so, I don't understand what Greenwald is making such a fuss about. If not, I would appreciate it if someone would kindly point out what part I got wrong.

181 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:51:28pm

re: #178 ozbloke

Ace, I may have a limited vocabulary, and not as eloquent as some but:

I didn't see that as vague, as she has repeated here on this thread that whether 'he stole' or 'was in possession of' is the same thing.

Under the law it is not, as I believe Floral may have linked to.

As I've explained, I am not the law. I am not the government. I will never be in a position to bring charges against Assange.

I am a private citizen. As such, I am allowed, some would say we are actually obligated, to take information and look at it and draw reasonable conclusions from it. And the conclusions I have drawn are that Assange, as a person who seeks confidential and private information, is a thief as much as the person who carries out the deed is a thief. Assange completes the theft when he gets hold of and publishes the information.

Since it's your practice to just sort of sneak in questions without every just stating your position, it's hard to know if you have any information that might cause me to change my mind.

For the 3rd time, would you care to simply share your position with us?

182 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:51:48pm

re: #178 ozbloke

Assange is a fence for stolen documents. I believe that in California, the fence and the thief are both treated as thieves. I think you're getting a little too into the semantics. A thief is essentially the sam e as someone who knowingly sells stolen property. And the information stolen was valuable property.

Where's Goddamnedfrank?
He can probably clear this up.

183 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:52:32pm

re: #172 reine.de.tout

In my opinion, based on information I have seen:
Manning stole information and passed it to Assange, who had a network for dissemination.
Assange decided to use his network and disseminate the information, thus completing the theft.

That is an example of a clear and concise statement of a person's position on this.
Care to share yours?

Certainly:
In my opinion, based on information I have seen:
Manning stole information and passed it to wikileaks, who had a network for dissemination.
Manning was the theif and at this point the documents were stolen.
They were stolen before wikileaks received them.

Can I add, I would like to see the US Govt take action over the security that would allow 2.5 million people access to 250,000 documents that they can download.


How did I do?

184 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:53:13pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

Greenwald just likes to have his panties in a knot.
And type a lot of words, is my impression.

185 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:53:52pm

re: #178 ozbloke

I didn't see that as vague, as she has repeated here on this thread that whether 'he stole' or 'was in possession of' is the same thing in that they are both criminal activities related to the criminal acquisition and sale of another's property, and therefore interchangeable enough for our purposes.

i can make the font bigger, if that helps.

186 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:54:20pm

re: #183 ozbloke

But, you admit wikileaks received stolen goods.
WHich makes them criminal as well.

187 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:54:27pm

re: #183 ozbloke

Certainly:
In my opinion, based on information I have seen:
Manning stole information and passed it to wikileaks, who had a network for dissemination.
Manning was the theif and at this point the documents were stolen.
They were stolen before wikileaks received them.

Can I add, I would like to see the US Govt take action over the security that would allow 2.5 million people access to 250,000 documents that they can download.


How did I do?

2.5 million people did not have access to this information. The number one threat to any network, private or government, is any insider who decides to abuse his privileges.

188 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:54:28pm

re: #182 Floral Giraffe

Where's Goddamnedfrank?
He can probably clear this up.

is he a lawyer?

189 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:55:41pm

re: #188 Aceofwhat?

He seems to have law enforcement type experience.

190 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:56:50pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

IMO that would make Assange more like a fence.

. . . .

In legal terms, you are probably correct.

I'm not sure what Oz's position is, because he hasn't really just stated it. But it SEEMS to be that Oz thinks Assange is pure as the driven snow, and Oz has more than once taken issue with my statement here., where I conversationally make an objection to Assange and his antics:

I haven't seen anyone suggest drawing and quartering anyone. How weird you took that from discussions here. Have you actually read anything?

Was Assange on a ballot anywhere in this country? Did anybody vote for him to be in the decision-making loop as to the security of information? What gives him the right to make those decisions FOR us?

Are there problems? Sure. Who elected Assange to be the fixer? I sure didn't. By what right does he steal and publish classified information, and what gives him the right to usurp my rights?

As you see, I mostly talk about Assange and his self-defined role in our nation's decision-making process as to the security of governmental information, and Assange's self-appointed right to make decisions and be the "fixer". I mention the theft of the documents in the same sentence as Assange's name.

191 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:57:26pm

re: #176 Aceofwhat?

pssst...this is what some of us like to call "apologizing"...just trying to clear that up for you...

Can you tell me the difference you see between the role wiki played and the role of the NYT with the Pentagon Papers?

For clarity, I see an apologist as someone who supports what someone else did, and makes apologies for what they did.

192 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:58:19pm

re: #190 reine.de.tout

little did you know that by saying 'steal' instead of 'receiving stolen goods', that you were opening up an avenue for his apologists;)

193 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:58:34pm

re: #188 Aceofwhat?

is he a lawyer?

I dunno.
But I bet he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express at some point in his life.

194 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 5:58:55pm

re: #192 Aceofwhat?

little did you know that by saying 'steal' instead of 'receiving stolen goods', that you were opening up an avenue for his apologists;)

I sure wish I had something better to do tonight.

195 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:00:02pm

re: #191 ozbloke

Can you tell me the difference you see between the role wiki played and the role of the NYT with the Pentagon Papers?

For clarity, I see an apologist as someone who supports what someone else did, and makes apologies for what they did.

Oh, i believe that i'm using the term correctly.

World English Dictionary
apologist (əˈpɒlədʒɪst)

— n
a person who offers a defence by argument

196 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:00:03pm

re: #177 Floral Giraffe

I would disagree, it seems to me that Assange was actively soliciting stolen documents. And, I do NOT consider his organization "journalists".

I can accept that in your view they are not journalists, you have that right.

Any links to what makes you think he was 'actively soliciting stolen documents', cause thats what Lamo was suggesting which was the only source I was aware of?

197 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:00:26pm

re: #194 reine.de.tout

I sure wish I had something better to do tonight.

i'm hurt...

198 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:00:43pm

re: #184 Floral Giraffe

Greenwald just likes to have his panties in a knot.
And type a lot of words, is my impression.


I followed him on Twitter because his name was familiar, but I don't know much about him besides what I've read here. His tweets tend to be kinda snarky at times.

In the case of the Wired thing, it seems like much ado about nothing if he has no proof.

199 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:00:57pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout

I dunno.
But I bet he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express at some point in his life.

good one

200 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:01:05pm

The registration page should now be protected from all but the most sophisticated spambots. Since I installed this technique for the contact form I haven't received a single spam email through it.

201 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:01:06pm

re: #186 Floral Giraffe

But, you admit wikileaks received stolen goods.
WHich makes them criminal as well.

Aha!
Yes!
But they didn't actually STEAL the documents, they simply received them and made them public, thus completing the theft. Which, if you're typing fast and trying to make a point before a thread moves on, you might just shorten to "steal".
Well, let's say I might, anyhow.

202 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:02:04pm

re: #184 Floral Giraffe

Greenwald just likes to have his panties in a knot.
And type a lot of words, is my impression.

Coupla others like that too.
One or two in this thread, maybe.

203 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:02:17pm

re: #194 reine.de.tout

I sure wish I had something better to do tonight.

I'm surfing some blues and every time I peek back here, it seems the thread is stuck in the mud and getting overcooked

204 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:03:24pm

re: #202 reine.de.tout

Coupla others like that too.
One or two in this thread, maybe.

Harumpf.
I hope you're not implying...

Tee hee!

205 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:03:28pm

re: #203 albusteve

I'm surfing some blues and every time I peek back here, it seems the thread is stuck in the mud and getting overcooked

Well, I sorta feel like I'm getting some exercise for my brain.
'Course, I got 3 hours of sleep last night, and I'm taking some meds that have me wired up, so it could be that I'm just babbling incoherently and have no clue.

206 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:03:39pm

re: #196 ozbloke

I can accept that in your view they are not journalists, you have that right.

out of morbid curiosity, do you have a handy explanation for why we would consider him a journalist, i.e. what are the criteria which one must possess to be a journalist, and how we know that Assange/Wikileaks meet said criteria?

207 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:03:41pm

re: #200 Charles

The registration page should now be protected from all but the most sophisticated spambots. Since I installed this technique for the contact form I haven't received a single spam email through it.

Havent looked at the reg page in a while, but have you considered a Captcha feature?

208 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:03:43pm

re: #204 Floral Giraffe

Harumpf.
I hope you're not implying...

Tee hee!

er, not you.
LOL

209 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:04:49pm

This is OT, but we have another should be an Onion headline, but isn't story. The wingnuts are outrageously, outraged because Justin Bieber expressed support for the Ground Zero Mosque. Except, you guest it, it's a hoax and he didn't say anything, but that didn't stop the calls for a boycott.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

210 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:05:03pm

re: #186 Floral Giraffe

But, you admit wikileaks received stolen goods.
WHich makes them criminal as well.

Yes, in exactly the same way that the NYT received info on the Pentagon Papers.

211 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:05:43pm

re: #190 reine.de.tout

All I can say is that I'm not liking Mr. Assange very much based on the bits & pieces I've been been able to make sense of so far.

212 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:06:19pm

re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal

This is OT, but we have another should be an Onion headline, but isn't story. The wingnuts are outrageously, outraged because Justin Bieber expressed support for the Ground Zero Mosque. Except, you guest it, it's a hoax and he didn't say anything, but that didn't stop the calls for a boycott.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

they're listening to Justin Bieber? sweet Lord, it's worse than i thought...

213 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:06:51pm

re: #196 ozbloke

I did a quick look, and could not come up with documentation that he was "actively soliciting" classified information.

214 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:06:53pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Havent looked at the reg page in a while, but have you considered a Captcha feature?

No need - this trick uses some Javascript techniques combined with PHP/Ajax to achieve roughly the same level of protection without the annoying captcha stuff.

I haven't seen a bot get past it yet, for several years.

215 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:07:53pm

re: #211 CuriousLurker

All I can say is that I'm not liking Mr. Assange very much based on the bits & pieces I've been been able to make sense of so far.

Basically, my position as well.

216 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:07:56pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

they're listening to Justin Bieber? sweet Lord, it's worse than i thought...

But she is such a nice young lady.

217 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:08:22pm

re: #187 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2.5 million people did not have access to this information. The number one threat to any network, private or government, is any insider who decides to abuse his privileges.

Hi Krager,

I'll just quote, if you could explain why that wrong I would be grateful.

It is thought about 2.5 million US military and civilian personnel have access to the network.

218 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:08:48pm

re: #216 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

*spew*
You gotta warn us, before you post things like that!

219 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:10:18pm

re: #210 ozbloke

Yes, in exactly the same way that the NYT received info on the Pentagon Papers.

But, did the NYT edit the Pentagon Papers, to present a stronger case?
Assange has edited the documents, and that makes him dishonest, in my opinion.

220 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:10:22pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

they're listening to Justin Bieber? sweet Lord, it's worse than i thought...


"Dear God, please bring back Bob Marley; in return, you can have Justin Beiber."

221 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:10:24pm

re: #190 reine.de.tout

In legal terms, you are probably correct.

I'm not sure what Oz's position is, because he hasn't really just stated it. But it SEEMS to be that Oz thinks Assange is pure as the driven snow, and Oz has more than once taken issue with my statement here., where I conversationally make an objection to Assange and his antics:

As you see, I mostly talk about Assange and his self-defined role in our nation's decision-making process as to the security of governmental information, and Assange's self-appointed right to make decisions and be the "fixer". I mention the theft of the documents in the same sentence as Assange's name.

You didn't like my #183 then?

222 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:11:23pm

re: #221 ozbloke

You didn't like my #183 then?

I hadn't seen it when I posted that, as you will notice, my 190 was in response to CL's 180 which is 3 prior to your 183.

223 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:11:36pm

re: #217 ozbloke

Hi Krager,

I'll just quote, if you could explain why that wrong I would be grateful.

It is thought about 2.5 million US military and civilian personnel have access to the network.

All networks have different levels of permission, access, and zones of trust. Do you think everyone who works at a company has full access to all a network's resources? That every secretary at Microsoft has full access to every file, folder and server?

Because if you do, you're an idiot.

224 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:12:06pm

re: #210 ozbloke

Yes, in exactly the same way that the NYT received info on the Pentagon Papers.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

a page just for you

225 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:12:24pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

Well not anymore they aren't! Presuming of course they are too stupid to realize the truth by now.

226 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:12:37pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

. . .

Because if you do, you're an idiot.

I've tried to be patient with Ozbloke.
But gosh, that sentence just hit a nerve . . .

227 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:12:44pm

re: #216 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But she is such a nice young lady.

she does have nice hair...

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:14:27pm

re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal

This is OT, but we have another should be an Onion headline, but isn't story. The wingnuts are outrageously, outraged because Justin Bieber expressed support for the Ground Zero Mosque. Except, you guest it, it's a hoax and he didn't say anything, but that didn't stop the calls for a boycott.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Justin Bieber always looked like he hated America.

///

229 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:14:33pm

Oh wow!
Amazon enables Kindle e-book lending

Select titles only, apparently. But it's new.

230 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:15:35pm

re: #220 reine.de.tout

Look if anybody wants to boycott and hate on Justin Bieber just because, I'm all in, but this was fall out from the vapors stupid.

231 srjh  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:16:38pm

re: #210 ozbloke

Yes, in exactly the same way that the NYT received info on the Pentagon Papers.

Which is really the crucial point here.

It's one thing to criticise Assange and Wikileaks over the cables leak, but it's something entirely different to get legally creative with "stolen property" claims that would have a tremendous chilling effect on the press if successful.

Similarly, defending everything Assange and Wikileaks have done and criticising the way governments have treated the issue are different issues entirely. The latter doesn't make one an Assange/Wikileaks "apologist".

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:16:55pm

Mosque foes recently started a boycott of Bieber after he made comments in support of the mosque project in an interview with Tiger Beat, a teen fan magazine, Sullivan told WYNC earlier this month. Now, his 8-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son have been banned from attending Bieber performances.

"I informed them, 'Hey guys, guess what? Justin Bieber spoke out for the ground zero mosque," Sullivan explained to Salon in an interview. "My little girl took down his poster and said she didn't want to have nothing to do with him anymore. These are my kids. They're living this thing."

OK, that is the most shifty, brilliant way I ever heard to convince your eight-year-old to stop lip-syncing Justin Bieber hits around the house.

233 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:17:06pm

re: #206 Aceofwhat?

out of morbid curiosity, do you have a handy explanation for why we would consider him a journalist, i.e. what are the criteria which one must possess to be a journalist, and how we know that Assange/Wikileaks meet said criteria?

No, but there are others smarter than I who suggest it would be difficult to prove that he is not.

If he is going to be sent to jail then the US Govt needs to make the case stick.
The fact that they have had six months to build a case yet no charges are pending indicates to me the difficulty they are having.

I wish it was as clear cut as others here.

234 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:17:14pm

re: #230 moderatelyradicalliberal

Look if anybody wants to boycott and hate on Justin Bieber just because, I'm all in, but this was fall out from the vapors stupid.

Who's stupid?
Moi?
I saw what you posted.
Then I responded to Ace's 212.
???

235 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:18:00pm

re: #229 reine.de.tout

If I were an author ebooks would scare me a little bit. Unlike musicians they can't go on tour to recoup losses from any pirated materials.

236 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:18:21pm

re: #213 Floral Giraffe

I did a quick look, and could not come up with documentation that he was "actively soliciting" classified information.

Thanks Floral.

237 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:18:45pm

Hello Lizards!

How is your evening going?

238 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:18:50pm

re: #116 albusteve

possessing stolen goods is a crime most everywhere

It's a real stretch to argue that the property was 'stolen'. Since the original was not taken and removed, then it becomes a copyright issue. But since, by law the US government is not supposed to copyright things (Section 105 of the copyright act). Which is why the arguments go to conspiracy to collect state secrets.

I know we've gotten used to having copyright infringement == Theft, but there's a reason why you don't see people being charged with receipt of stolen goods when they download the latest hot music. It's because it's not under US law.

Just a thought.

239 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:18:58pm

re: #233 ozbloke

No, but there are others smarter than I who suggest it would be difficult to prove that he is not.

If he is going to be sent to jail then the US Govt needs to make the case stick.
The fact that they have had six months to build a case yet no charges are pending indicates to me the difficulty they are having.

I wish it was as clear cut as others here.

Most of us are not the government.
We are allowed, legally, to look at information and draw conclusions, regardless of whether charges or brought or not.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:19:29pm

I have something to confess.

I am all out of sorts this evening.

The Diary of Haterblog is having a contest to pick the most sycophantic lizard, and I didn't make it into the final vote.

My feelings are hurt now. What? They don't hate me enough to vote for me?

241 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:19:33pm

re: #230 moderatelyradicalliberal

Look if anybody wants to boycott and hate on Justin Bieber just because, I'm all in, but this was fall out from the vapors stupid.

OK, I misread your punctuation.

242 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:19:58pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I have something to confess.

I am all out of sorts this evening.

The Diary of Haterblog is having a contest to pick the most sycophantic lizard, and I didn't make it into the final vote.

My feelings are hurt now. What? They don't hate me enough to vote for me?

did I make it?
did I?
did I?
Huh?
Who's in?

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:20:11pm

re: #241 reine.de.tout

OK, I misread your punctuation.

Woman, without her man, is nothing.

Woman: without her, man is nothing.

244 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:20:31pm

re: #237 ggt

Hello Lizards!

How is your evening going?

Me, I'm babbling incoherently.
How are you doing?

245 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:20:47pm

re: #219 Floral Giraffe

But, did the NYT edit the Pentagon Papers, to present a stronger case?
Assange has edited the documents, and that makes him dishonest, in my opinion.

Floral, I have never argued he was honest.
However editing has nothing to do with the theft itself.

246 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:20:50pm

re: #229 reine.de.tout

Very Cool!

247 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:20:53pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

With his long hair and his hippity hip hop dancing.

248 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:20:59pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, that is the most shifty, brilliant way I ever heard to convince your eight-year-old to stop lip-syncing Justin Bieber hits around the house.

Sad that the hate-poison is seeping into the minds of innocent children.

249 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:21:10pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I have something to confess.

I am all out of sorts this evening.

The Diary of Haterblog is having a contest to pick the most sycophantic lizard, and I didn't make it into the final vote.

My feelings are hurt now. What? They don't hate me enough to vote for me?

At least you made it into the running. I feel hurt.

250 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:21:48pm

re: #222 reine.de.tout

I hadn't seen it when I posted that, as you will notice, my 190 was in response to CL's 180 which is 3 prior to your 183.

May I have my results please, how did I do?

251 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:22:08pm

re: #250 ozbloke

May I have my results please, how did I do?

I'm tired.
So, no.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:22:18pm

re: #242 reine.de.tout

did I make it?
did I?
did I?
Huh?
Who's in?

Yeah. YOU did. You're the only woman on the final list.

Speranza was pushing for me, though. If I just had one or two more supporters...detractors...you know...maybe things would have been different!

(I kept swearing I wouldn't bring this up here, but it's too incredibly funny. I was so tempted to get a sock over there and start stuffing the ballot in my favor.)

253 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:23:20pm

re: #244 reine.de.tout

A little chilly, thanks for asking!

If I would just get off my butt and get a sweather, I'd feel better. . . .

254 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:23:23pm

re: #231 srjh

Similarly, defending everything Assange and Wikileaks have done and criticising the way governments have treated the issue are different issues entirely. The latter doesn't make one an Assange/Wikileaks "apologist".

You're right. Defending Assange and Wikileaks makes one an Assange/Wikileaks "apologist". I think that someone may have mentioned something similar a few minutes earlier...

255 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:23:25pm

Amazon enables Kindle e-book lending

i have to wonder why the marketers of a device that displays books decided to name it a "kindle"

if i didn't know better i would have suspected it to be a sardonic joke by a science fiction writer or something...

256 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:23:30pm

re: #248 CuriousLurker

Sad that the hate-poison is seeping into the minds of innocent children.

Yes, but you know - I'm thinking it won't really last. I mean these kids will grow up and MOST of them will begin to think for themselves. I know I did.

257 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:23:32pm

re: #226 reine.de.tout

I've tried to be patient with Ozbloke.
But gosh, that sentence just hit a nerve . . .

A good nerve or bad nerve?

258 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:24:14pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!
You're just too smart for them.
They're askeered!

259 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:24:16pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. YOU did. You're the only woman on the final list.

Speranza was pushing for me, though. If I just had one or two more supporters...detractors...you know...maybe things would have been different!

(I kept swearing I wouldn't bring this up here, but it's too incredibly funny. I was so tempted to get a sock over there and start stuffing the ballot in my favor.)

Wonder what I can do to put me over the top and win the thing?

260 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:25:07pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

Woman, without her man, is nothing.

Woman: without her, man is nothing.

woman without. her man is nothing

261 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:25:16pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

OK,
Could you please warn me in advance?
You with socks on the Haterblog?
Too funny.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:25:19pm

re: #259 reine.de.tout

Wonder what I can do to put me over the top and win the thing?

Well, I feel that I have to support you out of sisterly solidarity, so if there's any way I can help--or stuff the ballot--I'd be happy to.

263 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:25:40pm

re: #239 reine.de.tout

Most of us are not the government.
We are allowed, legally, to look at information and draw conclusions, regardless of whether charges or brought or not.

ah, this is where I get very confused. AT least in the USA, WE are, technically, the government. Theft from the government is theft from each and every citizen. We delegate certain authorities to elected officials and government employees.

See how the legalities baffle me?

264 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:25:56pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I feel that I have to support you out of sisterly solidarity, so if there's any way I can help--or stuff the ballot--I'd be happy to.

OK, we'll figure this thing out.
I've never won anything in my life.
Ever.
What a coup it would be!

265 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:26:30pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

a page just for you

Is this where I get to link to Daniel Ellsberg.
Get the tape and lay it on the table.

266 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:26:39pm

re: #259 reine.de.tout

Wonder what I can do to put me over the top and win the thing?

I bet they'll post something nasty they'd like to see you do.
F'tards, they are.

267 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:26:44pm

re: #263 ggt

ah, this is where I get very confused. AT least in the USA, WE are, technically, the government. Theft from the government is theft from each and every citizen. We delegate certain authorities to elected officials and government employees.

See how the legalities baffle me?

I'm so damned tired right now, if I have to start trying to 'splain again how I, as a private citizen, am perfectly free to draw conclusions from information without having to presume innocence, I think I'll faint dead away.

268 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:27:55pm

re: #264 reine.de.tout

I do NOT think anything to do with them is a win.
Except maybe laughing & pointing.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:28:12pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I feel that I have to support you out of sisterly solidarity, so if there's any way I can help--or stuff the ballot--I'd be happy to.

I gotta tell ya though, Ludwig has a formidable lead right now.

270 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:28:18pm

re: #268 Floral Giraffe

I do NOT think anything to do with them is a win.
Except maybe laughing & pointing.

{{FLO}}

Exactly.

271 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:28:47pm

re: #255 engineer dog

Amazon enables Kindle e-book lending

i have to wonder why the marketers of a device that displays books decided to name it a "kindle"

if i didn't know better i would have suspected it to be a sardonic joke by a science fiction writer or something...

A quick review of the Wiki didn't reveal anything. I'm thinking that books "kindle" your imagination.

272 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:28:59pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

I gotta tell ya though, Ludwig has a formidable lead right now.

Well, I couldn't argue with that.

273 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:29:14pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

Yes, but you know - I'm thinking it won't really last. I mean these kids will grow up and MOST of them will begin to think for themselves. I know I did.

Thanks, I needed that. {reine}

I hate the idea of some little kid seeing me and feeling fear or distrust for no effing reason other than their parents programming them to do so. It's no skin of my back, but it's unfair to the kid to make them feel that way. *sigh*

274 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:29:35pm

re: #220 reine.de.tout

"Dear God, please bring back Bob Marley; in return, you can have Justin Beiber."

3 of us in the room all ROFL!

275 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:30:13pm

re: #267 reine.de.tout

I'm so damned tired right now, if I have to start trying to 'splain again how I, as a private citizen, am perfectly free to draw conclusions from information without having to presume innocence, I think I'll faint dead away.

Not to bother, I'm also tired and wouldn't remember even if I understood.

276 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:30:19pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I have something to confess.

I am all out of sorts this evening.

The Diary of Haterblog is having a contest to pick the most sycophantic lizard, and I didn't make it into the final vote.

My feelings are hurt now. What? They don't hate me enough to vote for me?

Lol.
Am I on the list?!?!
:P

277 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:30:24pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I feel that I have to support you out of sisterly solidarity, so if there's any way I can help--or stuff the ballot--I'd be happy to.

I hear you roar

278 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:31:44pm

re: #265 ozbloke

Is this where I get to link to Daniel Ellsberg.
Get the tape and lay it on the table.

i'm not sure i understand. you mean that Ellsberg, by dint of his being the central player in the Pentagon Papers affair, is somehow magically more right as a result?

279 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:31:49pm

re: #277 albusteve

I hear you roar

meow

280 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:32:17pm

re: #273 CuriousLurker

Thanks, I needed that. {reine}

I hate the idea of some little kid seeing me and feeling fear or distrust for no effing reason other than their parents programming them to do so. It's no skin of my back, but it's unfair to the kid to make them feel that way. *sigh*

It is true, though, you know CL.
I don't think of things the same way my parents did; different sets of experiences throughout my life. And my daughter won't think of things the same way I do.

And most of these kids will grow up, meet people, and be just fine. This particular thing is temporary and fleeting idiocy - hard to deal with right now but it will not be forever.

281 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:32:26pm

re: #278 Aceofwhat?

i'm not sure i understand. you mean that Ellsberg, by dint of his being the central player in the Pentagon Papers affair, is somehow magically more right as a result?

No, he is only magically right if he is part of the Secret Service.

282 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:32:31pm

re: #275 ggt

Not to bother, I'm also tired and wouldn't remember even if I understood.

We're in the same boat.

283 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:33:06pm

re: #264 reine.de.tout

OK, we'll figure this thing out.
I've never won anything in my life.
Ever.
What a coup it would be!

You could ask Reginald, or SpaceJesus, I think they've both been more than banned over there. And for good reason! Stalkerz fear them!

284 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:33:13pm

re: #281 ggt

No, he is only magically right if he is part of the Secret Service.

nice

285 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:34:05pm

re: #280 reine.de.tout

It is true, though, you know CL.
I don't think of things the same way my parents did; different sets of experiences throughout my life. And my daughter won't think of things the same way I do.

And most of these kids will grow up, meet people, and be just fine. This particular thing is temporary and fleeting idiocy - hard to deal with right now but it will not be forever.

And I'm not meaning to dismiss the harshness or unfairness or idiocy of it. I do believe it will pass.

286 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:34:32pm

One of my dogs has to "nest", that is turn in a circle, about 50 times before he lays down. Bugs the hell out of me. Especially when he decides to get into bed in the middle of the night.

He just decided to settle near my feet.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:35:00pm

re: #276 Varek Raith

Lol.
Am I on the list?!?!
:P

I hate to tell you this Varek...but no.

:(

288 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:35:34pm

re: #276 Varek Raith

Lol.
Am I on the list?!?!
:P

You need to say something controversial.
Like "I like LGF!".

289 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:35:51pm

re: #239 reine.de.tout

Most of us are not the government.
We are allowed, legally, to look at information and draw conclusions, regardless of whether charges or brought or not.

Yes, this is what we are doing.

Do you believe charges are imminent, and what charges would they be?

If it will help at all just between you and me, I don't like Assange.

Though I do see a place for whistle blowers in this world, and I think that sites that will allow for whistle blowers to remain anonymous and get information attention when the media has been either complicit or complacent is a good thing.

290 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:35:51pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate to tell you this Varek...but no.

:(


Varek, I think you should protest, send a strongly worded letter.

291 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:35:57pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate to tell you this Varek...but no.

:(

OUTRAGEOUS!
Or not.
:P

292 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:36:03pm

re: #285 reine.de.tout

And I'm not meaning to dismiss the harshness or unfairness or idiocy of it. I do believe it will pass.

I know you do, I just let it get to me more than I should sometimes. {{{reine}}}

293 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:37:09pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I feel that I have to support you out of sisterly solidarity, so if there's any way I can help--or stuff the ballot--I'd be happy to.

The reason I was on the list is because several years ago I said something so ugly about a lizard that left here it was unforgivable.. My feelings were so hurt that I lost a friend on the blogs...I sent her a letter of apology and she forgave me...No one else ever did...
I'm willing to win the fricking contest with a clear conscience.. I was new to blogging and lashed out.. I've learned a lot since then.. I've learned to let it go...I made a mistake and moved on..Two years later many in the land of the damned can't..I'll never change that..but I am sorry for those words

294 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:38:33pm

re: #293 HoosierHoops

Well, they're just haters. And, it's just the intertoobes!
*waves*

295 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:38:48pm

re: #293 HoosierHoops

Hoosier! Where are you these days? I think I remember that you are not in Indiana anymore. Did you go overseas?

296 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:39:05pm

re: #295 ggt

Hoosier! Where are you these days? I think I remember that you are not in Indiana anymore. Did you go overseas?

Worse.
;)

297 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:39:36pm

re: #296 Varek Raith

Worse.
;)

Worse than Indiana? I'm from Indiana, I of what I speak.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:39:36pm

re: #288 reine.de.tout

You need to say something controversial.
Like "I like LGF!".

Apparently, last January, I posted the words "I love you, Charles."

I have no recollection of saying this, nor do I recall WHY I said this, but they managed to find it.

299 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:40:35pm

re: #298 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, last January, I posted the words "I love you, Charles."

I have no recollection of saying this, nor do I recall WHY I said this, but they managed to find it.

It's Ok, I love Charles too.

And I'm not afraid to type it! Just another LGF groupie.

300 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:41:49pm

re: #289 ozbloke

Yes, this is what we are doing.

Do you believe charges are imminent, and what charges would they be?

If it will help at all just between you and me, I don't like Assange.

Though I do see a place for whistle blowers in this world, and I think that sites that will allow for whistle blowers to remain anonymous and get information attention when the media has been either complicit or complacent is a good thing.

I have no clue if charges are imminent. The charges wouldn't be "theft", of course, the term I use, it would be something else. I'm not even sure what the formal charges are against Manning - theft or something else that encompasses theft PLUS?

I have nothing against you, it is just very trying to try to answer questions in the comment format we have here, without knowing precisely what you are trying to get at, and be so very precise with language that we don't get bogged down in dictionary definitions, though I admit I've done similar snarks to others at times.

Your questions are very general, as if you wish to find out what a person's position is, but then your next question has a bit of a different nuance and on it goes. It's not easy to have an actual discussion, when all one can do is keep on trying to defend a statement they made or a word they used (rather than discussing a position they hold). And so I got worn out. That's all.

301 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:42:15pm

re: #295 ggt

Hoosier! Where are you these days? I think I remember that you are not in Indiana anymore. Did you go overseas?

I got transfered to Norman..Blocks from OU for a year...Really cool place.. Next year Winston and I will be in Singapore..Nice seeing you again

302 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:42:34pm

re: #292 CuriousLurker

I know you do, I just let it get to me more than I should sometimes. {{{reine}}}

{{{CL}}} hugs backatcha!
You are safe here, we love ya.

303 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:43:01pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I have something to confess.

I am all out of sorts this evening.

The Diary of Haterblog is having a contest to pick the most sycophantic lizard, and I didn't make it into the final vote.

My feelings are hurt now. What? They don't hate me enough to vote for me?

My feeling's have been hurt by odious odomite stalker trolls too. It has been brought to my attention that the mere mention of my name gets a comment sent to the memory hole at the hate blog.

304 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:43:11pm

What's with all the lovey-dovey posts?!?!
BLEH!
/

305 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:43:31pm

re: #278 Aceofwhat?

i'm not sure i understand. you mean that Ellsberg, by dint of his being the central player in the Pentagon Papers affair, is somehow magically more right as a result?

No just that Floyd Abrams has the opposite opinion to Daniel Ellsberg.

306 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:43:53pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

What's with all the lovey-dovey posts?!?!
BLEH!
/

Oooh, we love u too Varek!

307 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:44:42pm

re: #303 Reginald Perrin

My feeling's have been hurt by odious odomite stalker trolls too. It has been brought to my attention that the mere mention of my name gets a comment sent to the memory hole at the hate blog.

Whoa!
That's powerful!

308 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:44:58pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

What's with all the lovey-dovey posts?!?!
BLEH!
/

Oh, good grief, we love you too.

309 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:45:25pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

What's with all the lovey-dovey posts?!?!
BLEH!
/

re: #306 ggt

Oooh, we love u too Varek!

Yeah, and you know you love us too, Varek. C'mon, admit it—the truth will set you free!

310 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:46:20pm

re: #308 reine.de.tout

Oh, good grief, we love you too.

I think somone needs a hug...

{{{Varek}}}

311 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:46:41pm

re: #306 ggt

Oooh, we love u too Varek!

re: #308 reine.de.tout

Oh, good grief, we love you too.

re: #309 CuriousLurker

re: #306 ggt

Yeah, and you know you love us too, Varek. C'mon, admit it—the truth will set you free!

Lol.

312 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:48:05pm

Must...with..stand..barrage of...positive..thoughts...

313 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:48:16pm

re: #303 Reginald Perrin

LOL!
Awesome, Sir!

314 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:48:18pm

re: #303 Reginald Perrin

My feeling's have been hurt by odious odomite stalker trolls too. It has been brought to my attention that the mere mention of my name gets a comment sent to the memory hole at the hate blog.

I don't do stalkers...and I feel light as a feather...why would anybody give them the time of day?...for fun, then why get all bunched up over their antics?...makes no sense, better just to stay away from there....unless you need the attention for some reason...just my humble opinion

315 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:48:36pm

re: #311 Varek Raith

re: #308 reine.de.tout

re: #309 CuriousLurker

Lol.

oh, we might want to be careful. Too much PDA might be like a silver bullet (which I know is a fallacy) to a (w)Raith.

316 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:49:09pm

re: #305 ozbloke

No just that Floyd Abrams has the opposite opinion to Daniel Ellsberg.

yes. a more well-reasoned opinion, too.

Ellsberg's take is so leaky that even he sees the gaping holes in his patchwork.

Ellsberg: While generally praising Assange, Ellsberg said Assange should have done a better job in his initial document releases of redacting names of people and sources...
Ellsberg: Ellsberg acknowledged that the government needs to keep some secrets...

This is what we call 'tripping over one's intellectual feet'.

although i didn't realize until just now that Charles had already posted that WSJ article as a main thread topic here...i apologize for the duplication.

317 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:49:14pm

re: #303 Reginald Perrin

My feeling's have been hurt by odious odomite stalker trolls too. It has been brought to my attention that the mere mention of my name gets a comment sent to the memory hole at the hate blog.

They fear you, Reggie. I, on the other hand, am a current target of the "sycophant" balloting. Thus I feel it fair to let the Stalkers know that 'Quite Concur' is not a line original to me. It's used by someone else on another forum I post on. I don't use it there, but I like it so much I've made it my own here.

318 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:49:28pm

Night Lizards. Time to bail. The morning comes early and I am to bed.

May the Deity of your choice smile down upon you.

319 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:49:30pm

re: #312 Varek Raith

Must...with..stand..barrage of...positive..thoughts...

i hate you

320 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:50:03pm

re: #319 Aceofwhat?

i hate you

That's better.

321 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:50:12pm

re: #312 Varek Raith

Must...with..stand..barrage of...positive..thoughts...

Okay, now sing along: "Kumbaya..."

*glares at VR* Stop gagging!

322 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:51:14pm

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

323 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:51:28pm

re: #321 CuriousLurker

Okay, now sing along: "Kumbaya..."

*glares at VR* Stop gagging!

Oh, puh-leeze!
NOT KUMBAYA!
argh.

Well, I really seriously need some sleep.

It's been fun, GOSH, even including the sparring with OzBloke, which was quite interesting.

g'night all.

324 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:52:08pm

re: #323 reine.de.tout

LOL—nite, reine.

325 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:53:47pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Making Denial a river in New York, too.

326 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:54:30pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

[Video]

I want to believe him because he has mad scientist hair.

327 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:54:43pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

[Video]

been following this guy for a few weeks...he is crazy accurate

328 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:55:59pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

[Video]

Lol...
Fox & Friends.

329 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:56:12pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

[Video]

but is he going to tell us how the magnets work...?

330 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:57:26pm

re: #316 Aceofwhat?

yes. a more well-reasoned opinion, too.

Ellsberg's take is so leaky that even he sees the gaping holes in his patchwork.

Ellsberg: While generally praising Assange, Ellsberg said Assange should have done a better job in his initial document releases of redacting names of people and sources...
Ellsberg: Ellsberg acknowledged that the government needs to keep some secrets...

This is what we call 'tripping over one's intellectual feet'.

although i didn't realize until just now that Charles had already posted that WSJ article as a main thread topic here...i apologize for the duplication.

Regardless of what Ellsberg thinks could have been done better he states:
"Anybody who believes Julian Assange can be distinguished from The New York Times ... is on a fool's errand," Ellsberg said.

I dont agree with all of what Ellsberg says or of what wikileaks did, however I do agree with Ellsberg on this.
I fail to see how wikileaks is any different to the NYT with its leaks.

331 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:58:45pm

re: #326 Charles

I want to believe him because he has mad scientist hair.

He's also a New World Order conspiracy guy.

332 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:59:03pm

And I found a good song to express why I defend LGF and refuse to flounce. It comes back to who I don't want to be:

Sycophant this, you stalker assholes!

333 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:59:15pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

He's also a New World Order conspiracy guy.

Imagine my surprise.

334 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:59:22pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

HAHAHAHA

"So much for global warming?"

It's freaking winter. It's, shocka, cold in winter! And, possibly, snowy!

335 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:59:26pm

re: #314 albusteve

I don't do stalkers...and I feel light as a feather...why would anybody give them the time of day?...for fun, then why get all bunched up over their antics?...makes no sense, better just to stay away from there...unless you need the attention for some reason...just my humble opinion

LOL..Steve-o..You really don't care about anything..You have never even updinged a poster here...Even If it was brilliant..We are below you...But you are respected here...
I woke up August 13th on a Friday morning and prayed for you when the Doctors took your leg...That you would be strong and you'd survive the pain..
It's how we roll my friend

336 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 6:59:59pm

re: #326 Charles

I want to believe him because he has mad scientist hair.

He'd never make it in the US. Bad Teeth.. Can't be put in the public eye with bad teeth.

337 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:00:56pm

re: #330 ozbloke

Regardless of what Ellsberg thinks could have been done better he states:
"Anybody who believes Julian Assange can be distinguished from The New York Times ... is on a fool's errand," Ellsberg said.

I dont agree with all of what Ellsberg says or of what wikileaks did, however I do agree with Ellsberg on this.
I fail to see how wikileaks is any different to the NYT with its leaks.

Because the New York Times would not release information that could be used to identify informants. They've seen where that leads at the hands of La Cosa Nostra.

338 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:02:01pm

re: #330 ozbloke

I fail to see how wikileaks is any different to the NYT with its leaks.

Then you need to read the Floyd Abrams piece again, more carefully.

339 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:02:15pm

re: #336 ggt

He'd never make it in the US. Bad Teeth.. Can't be put in the public eye with bad teeth.

Bad Teeth are still more common over there. Soft water, AIR.

340 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:02:43pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

Bad Teeth are still more common over there. Soft water, AIR.

Oh, and I thought it was the lack of a Union Dental Plan.

341 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:03:28pm

re: #340 ggt

Oh, and I thought it was the lack of a Union Dental Plan.

[smiles]

342 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:03:56pm

re: #340 ggt

Oh, and I thought it was the lack of a Union Dental Plan.

don't they have public health care over there?

;)

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:04:43pm

re: #336 ggt

He'd never make it in the US. Bad Teeth.. Can't be put in the public eye with bad teeth.

It's funny how much that matters in the US. I was watching a British comedy, Coupling, and in one of the episodes, a main character goes out for several dates with an extremely hot woman he meets on the train. She's lovely, very groomed and made up, but with crooked teeth. Not awful, but natural, normal teeth. It occurred to me that she could never act for TV in the States with those, she'd absolutely have to get braces.

(He messes up the whole thing for himself because he lies to her on first meeting her and tells her he's had one leg amputated. This becomes a problem when things progress to the point that she's inviting him back to her apartment, with a clear intent of things getting physical. "She's bound to count them sooner or later," one of his friends points out.)

344 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:04:44pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

Because the New York Times would not release information that could be used to identify informants. They've seen where that leads at the hands of La Cosa Nostra.

Hey Dark,

I am not equating or comparing document contents, my statement comes from a place of the role wikileaks played. They released documents given to them.
Manning stole the documents.

345 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:05:05pm

re: #342 Aceofwhat?

don't they have public health care over there?

;)

I don't know what they have over there, as long as it stays over there and my teeth stay as they are.

:)

346 jaunte  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:05:11pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

Secret methods!

He keeps the details of his methodology for making predictions a secret, and has been criticized for making unfounded claims about the power of his predictions, even after they turned out to be inaccurate.
[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]
347 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:05:19pm

re: #335 HoosierHoops

LOL..Steve-o..You really don't care about anything..You have never even updinged a poster here...Even If it was brilliant..We are below you...But you are respected here...
I woke up August 13th on a Friday morning and prayed for you when the Doctors took your leg...That you would be strong and you'd survive the pain..
It's how we roll my friend

you all are below me?...please, I don't suppose that at all, I just post...
as for dinging, I am as fair as is possible in judgment by not using that function...it has nothing to do with anybody personally, and should not be taken as some deeper expression...and I have always thanked folks for their kindness...I'm no brute

348 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:06:08pm

re: #335 HoosierHoops

LOL..Steve-o..You really don't care about anything..You have never even updinged a poster here...Even If it was brilliant..We are below you...But you are respected here...
I woke up August 13th on a Friday morning and prayed for you when the Doctors took your leg...That you would be strong and you'd survive the pain..
It's how we roll my friend

He cares about stuff; he wouldn't bother coming here and participating if he didn't. He's just loath to admit it. That's the way he rolls. :)

349 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:06:14pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

It's funny how much that matters in the US. I was watching a British comedy, Coupling, and in one of the episodes, a main character goes out for several dates with an extremely hot woman he meets on the train. She's lovely, very groomed and made up, but with crooked teeth. Not awful, but natural, normal teeth. It occurred to me that she could never act for TV in the States with those, she'd absolutely have to get braces.

(He messes up the whole thing for himself because he lies to her on first meeting her and tells her he's had one leg amputated. This becomes a problem when things progress to the point that she's inviting him back to her apartment, with a clear intent of things getting physical. "She's bound to count them sooner or later," one of his friends points out.)

Yes, their actors and actresses don't have to be Cover material. Good for them.

350 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:06:32pm

re: #334 Varek Raith

HAHAHAHA

It's freaking winter. It's, shocka, cold in winter! And, possibly, snowy!

The Stalkers are in a denial frenzy over the blizzard. As usual, they care not at all for the scientific evidence, only for the service of their own butthurt.

351 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:07:13pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

Bad Teeth are still more common over there. Soft water, AIR.

we are advanced...FLUORIDE!

352 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:08:08pm

re: #351 albusteve

we are advanced...FLUORIDE!

Some group or another is saying that is bad for us too!

353 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:09:40pm

re: #347 albusteve

No Steve..You rock...i just wanted you to know you have friends here...I must say..The Amphetamine Annie quip was classic a year ago..I don't forget anything..My curse in life..Be well

354 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:09:52pm
355 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:11:22pm

re: #354 ggt

Fluoride Action Network

Do they count a General Jack D. Ripper as a member, by any chance?

356 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:13:08pm

re: #353 HoosierHoops

No Steve..You rock...i just wanted you to know you have friends here...I must say..The Amphetamine Annie quip was classic a year ago..I don't forget anything..My curse in life..Be well

you do have an acute memory...I'll remember that, and I'm glad you are adjusting to your new surroundings...that means something to me

357 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:13:20pm

re: #346 jaunte

Secret methods!

Shocka!

358 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:14:11pm

re: #355 Dark_Falcon

Do they count a General Jack D. Ripper as a member, by any chance?

Oh, they have a whole group of people with letters after their names.

359 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:14:39pm

re: #338 Aceofwhat?

Then you need to read the Floyd Abrams piece again, more carefully.

What do you make of this part of Floyd Abrams piece?

As Princeton historian Sean Wilentz told the Associated Press earlier this month, WikiLeaks seems rooted in a "simpleminded idea of secrecy and transparency," one that is "simply offended by any actions that are cloaked."

Ironically, this view of the world may aid Mr. Assange in avoiding criminal liability for his actions. The Justice Department is well aware that if it can prove that Mr. Assange induced someone in the government to provide him with genuinely secret information, it might be able to obtain an indictment under the Espionage Act based upon that sort of conspiratorial behavior. But the government might not succeed if it can indict based only upon a section of the Espionage Act relating to unauthorized communication or retention of documents.

Section 793 of the Espionage Act was adopted in 1917 before the Supreme Court had ever declared an act of Congress unconstitutional under the First Amendment. The statute has been well-described by former Supreme Court Justice John Marshall Harlan as "singularly oblique." Its language is sweepingly overbroad, allowing prosecution of anyone who "willfully" retains or communicates information "relating to the national defense" he or she is not "authorized" to have with the knowledge that it "could" damage the United States or give "advantage" to a foreign nation.

On the face of the statute, it could not only permit the indictment of Mr. Assange but of journalists who actually report about or analyze diplomatic or defense topics. To this date, no journalist has ever been indicted under these provisions.

The Justice Department took the position that it could enforce the law against journalists in a case it commenced in 2006 (and later dropped) against two former officials of the American Israel Political Action Committee accused of orally telling an Israeli diplomat classified information they were told by a Defense Department employee. In that case, federal Judge T.S. Ellis III ruled that to obtain a conviction of individuals who had not worked for the government but had received information from individuals who had, prosecutors must prove that the defendant actually intended to harm the U.S. or to help an enemy. Judge Ellis intimated that unless the law were read in that defendant-protective manner, it would violate the First Amendment.

Under that reading of the legislation, if Mr. Assange were found to have communicated and retained the secret information with the intent to harm the United States—some of his statements can be so read—a conviction might be obtained. But if Mr. Assange were viewed as simply following his deeply held view that the secrets of government should be bared, notwithstanding the consequences, he might escape legal punishment.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

360 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:14:48pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Shocka!

but can he bend spoons?

361 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:16:02pm

re: #360 albusteve

but can he bend spoons?

dare I say . . . (maybe this has been made a no-no, I don't know--forgive me if it has)

in bed?

362 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:16:21pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Shocka!

his hair and his accent, combined with that special air of conspiracy, made me think of this...

363 Gus  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:17:55pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

[Video]

Forecasts for 2008

At the end of 2007, WeatherAction predicted that temperatures in January could plummet to -17 °C in the Midlands, and that the average temperature for January would be close to freezing. This prediction was dismissed by the Met Office in a Guardian article on 2 January [15]. After the January prediction proved false, Mr. Corbyn blamed the incorrect forecast on an undefined 'procedural error,' but insisted that the second half of the month, specifically the period of 21–27 January, would be very cold, stating on his website:

""The period and forecast maps for the very cold ‘dipole’ patterns 15-21st Jan will probably be shifted later to 21st- 23rd Jan. Some exceptionally strong blizzard conditiuons (sic) and very strong cold winds are likely in this period. An ongoing similar situation with widespread heavy snow, strong winds and blizzards will continue 24th- 27th Jan."[16]

The period 21–23 January continued very mild for the country as a whole, but with a brief colder interlude for Scotland and the far north of England, with some snow in the Highland and Pennine Mountain regions, not out of the ordinary for January.[17]. The Met Office run Hadley Observation Centre had the CET from the 1–22 January running at 6.4 °C, or 2.8 °C above normal for the time of year. This made it highly unlikely that Corbyn's very cold January forecast would come to fruition.

The final CET for January 2008 ended up over 3 °C above the standard reference average making the predictions for a cold Jan very poor. In fact it ended up being one of the warmest Januarys since records began.

364 Gus  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:19:27pm

Plus, we're only about a week into winter. It's not uncommon to have very cold starts to winter and end up having record warm mid winter periods. We've seen this happen countless times during the past 10 years.

365 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:20:02pm

I'm so tired of the weather. Where it live, it changes. It has always changed. Sometimes it is colder, sometimes it is warmer.

I know it is an important topic. I'm not a scientist. And I am very confused.

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:21:42pm

re: #365 ggt

I'm so tired of the weather. Where it live, it changes. It has always changed. Sometimes it is colder, sometimes it is warmer.

I know it is an important topic. I'm not a scientist. And I am very confused.

Climate is a really, really complicated thing. It's not hard to get confused. There are a bazillion moving parts, and a very large system.

367 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:21:53pm

re: #359 ozbloke

oh, i think he might well escape legal punishment. absolutely. i also think that Mr. Abrams enunciated quite nicely why it's not at all the same situation as the Pentagon Papers.

i would, however, be in favor of a law which provides us a method for prosecuting the Assanges in the future.

368 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:22:31pm

OT - Charles hasn't done a "We Got Mail!" thread in a while, so I thought you guys might enjoy reading this from PolitiFact:

Mailbag: The best of our 2010 reader comments

369 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:22:34pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

Climate is a really, really complicated thing. It's not hard to get confused. There are a bazillion moving parts, and a very large system.

Kinda like trying to understand the price of gas?

370 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:23:20pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

oh, i think he might well escape legal punishment. absolutely. i also think that Mr. Abrams enunciated quite nicely why it's not at all the same situation as the Pentagon Papers.

i would, however, be in favor of a law which provides us a method for prosecuting the Assanges in the future.

I think that he should be given a swirlie by anyone who feels like at whenever they feel like it.

371 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:24:17pm

re: #369 ggt

Kinda like trying to understand the price of gas?

or betting on college football...but there, if you're right, at least you win some money

372 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:25:17pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

oh, i think he might well escape legal punishment. absolutely. i also think that Mr. Abrams enunciated quite nicely why it's not at all the same situation as the Pentagon Papers.

i would, however, be in favor of a law which provides us a method for prosecuting the Assanges in the future.

I predict, again, that Assange will walk, and likely not even charged

373 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:25:56pm

re: #370 ggt

I think that he should be given a swirlie by anyone who feels like at whenever they feel like it.

i think that's one of the most sensible things i've read all day!

374 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:26:28pm

re: #373 Aceofwhat?

i think that's one of the most sensible things i've read all day!

Thank You!

375 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:26:33pm

re: #353 HoosierHoops

you watching this UNC/UT bowl game or what?

376 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:26:37pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

Climate is a really, really complicated thing. It's not hard to get confused. There are a bazillion moving parts, and a very large system.

And they keep getting Climate mixed up with weather!
Its teh hard.

377 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:29:02pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

oh, i think he might well escape legal punishment. absolutely. i also think that Mr. Abrams enunciated quite nicely why it's not at all the same situation as the Pentagon Papers.

i would, however, be in favor of a law which provides us a method for prosecuting the Assanges in the future.

Yes, specifically he made points about the difference in contents choice of which was published and motivations for doing it.
They are clear differences, but from a legal point of view wikileaks played the role the NYT played.

I hope that the US does get on top of that security, as we know the cables affect many countries and who in their right mind wants to crash the economies of the western world.

I understand that a person will need to have access to documents.

I fail to understand that for how Manning would have the ability to download 250000 documents.
I also fail to understand how he was able to burn/copy them.

This needs to to fixed.

378 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:30:14pm

re: #376 Floral Giraffe

And they keep getting Climate mixed up with weather!
Its teh hard.

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that my kid is going to college in two years. The whole process has changed since I went. No more, just fill out your application and send it in. ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!

379 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:31:49pm

re: #377 ozbloke

Yes, specifically he made points about the difference in contents choice of which was published and motivations for doing it.
They are clear differences, but from a legal point of view wikileaks played the role the NYT played.

I hope that the US does get on top of that security, as we know the cables affect many countries and who in their right mind wants to crash the economies of the western world.

I understand that a person will need to have access to documents.

I fail to understand that for how Manning would have the ability to download 250000 documents.
I also fail to understand how he was able to burn/copy them.

This needs to to fixed.

25000 documents takes a very powerful incinerator. Or a lot of little bon fires. Unless they were all on a disk or two. That could have been accomplished on a back yard grill.

380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:33:50pm

re: #378 ggt

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that my kid is going to college in two years. The whole process has changed since I went. No more, just fill out your application and send it in. ARGHHH!

Now they just have to prove they don't need college.

381 Gus  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:34:29pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Mocked Meteorologist Gets Last Laugh

[Video]

Piers Corbyn on The Alex Jones Show 1/4:The Lies and Deception of Global Warming

382 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:34:37pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I have something to confess.

I am all out of sorts this evening.

The Diary of Haterblog is having a contest to pick the most sycophantic lizard, and I didn't make it into the final vote.

My feelings are hurt now. What? They don't hate me enough to vote for me?

Did I make the list? I'll be so devastated either way.

383 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:34:53pm

re: #378 ggt

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that my kid is going to college in two years. The whole process has changed since I went. No more, just fill out your application and send it in. ARGHHH!

been there, done that...it was the last hard as hell gig we had to go through....scrutinizing scholarships, arranging allowances, spending gobs of money...good luck

384 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:35:29pm

re: #383 albusteve

been there, done that...it was the last hard as hell gig we had to go through...scrutinizing scholarships, arranging allowances, spending gobs of money...good luck

thanks!

385 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:35:33pm

re: #370 ggt

I think that he should be given a swirlie by anyone who feels like at whenever they feel like it.

I think he should be given an Atomic Wedgie by an NFL lineman. It's a fitting punishment for a geek.

386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:35:51pm

re: #382 Alouette

It's me. Hands down.

387 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:36:43pm

re: #384 ggt

thanks!

one more thing...start early, it gets complicated fast

388 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:37:53pm

re: #387 albusteve

one more thing...start early, it gets complicated fast

we r in tne middle of junior year

389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:38:02pm

re: #378 ggt

My kid did the community college then to private college thing.

All you had to do was register in time and give them a check.

390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:38:43pm
391 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:39:55pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My kid did the community college then to private college thing.

All you had to do was register in time and give them a check.

I'm thinking that is my speed--makes financial sense too! I'm not sold on the idea of going away to school right away. I sure made a fine mess of things doing it that way.

Just seems this is a big game we don"t have to play.

392 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:40:53pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My kid did the community college then to private college thing.

All you had to do was register in time and give them a check.

my girl won a few scholarships and went to a moderately expensive, fine arts school....my bot went all out to University of Mich...the number one reason I'm broke now...might as well open up Ft Knox and dish out gold bars or whatever....hugely expensive

393 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:41:41pm

re: #382 Alouette

Did I make the list? I'll be so devastated either way.

Yes, you're on the list. It should really be called "The Lizards who PWN the most". It's just an excuse for the Stalkers to spew.

394 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:42:40pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

I gotta tell ya though, Ludwig has a formidable lead right now.

Where IS Ludwig? His timeout is going on way too long. And he is not answering my emails.

Has anyone heard from him?

395 freetoken  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:43:24pm

re: #393 Dark_Falcon

They actually make lists of those sort of things?

396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:45:36pm

re: #391 ggt

I'm thinking that is my speed--makes financial sense too! I'm not sold on the idea of going away to school right away. I sure made a fine mess of things doing it that way.


Two years of community college about 3 grand. Because of his excellent grades, living at home (not on campus which was five miles away), and being a county resident his 40K per year college (Roanoke College, Salem, VA) ran 6 grand a year.

His BA had a total cost of 15,000.00.

397 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:45:40pm

re: #395 freetoken

They actually make lists of those sort of things?

that was my reaction, too. how incredibly pathetic.

398 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:46:16pm

re: #375 Aceofwhat?

you watching this UNC/UT bowl game or what?

Nope..I'm watching Antwone Fisher...It rips me to my very soul...Yes..I was so embarrassed that no one wanted me till I was I was 12...People think I'm so lucky I got adopted by a Napa Valley family...But I can hardly brush past the tears when this movie is on....The memories hurt beyond belief.. I love this movie..

399 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:47:02pm

re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Two years of community college about 3 grand. Because of his excellent grades, living at home (not on campus which was five miles away), and being a county resident his 40K per year college (Roanoke College, Salem, VA) ran 6 grand a year.

His BA had a total cost of 15,000.00.

Being in Chicago-land. There are LOTS of choices within driving or train-riding range.

400 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:48:29pm

re: #394 Alouette

Where IS Ludwig? His timeout is going on way too long. And he is not answering my emails.

Has anyone heard from him?

His timeout is long over. He can log back in again but has chosen not to.

401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:48:33pm

re: #399 ggt

The way I look at it is this...

On my dime, I'm the director.

His dime? He's the director.

He looked at me and said, "Direct away, you dumb bastard."

402 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:49:53pm

re: #401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The way I look at it is this...

On my dime, I'm the director.

His dime? He's the director.

He looked at me and said, "Direct away, you dumb bastard."

YEP!

403 freetoken  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:50:31pm

re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

His BA had a total cost of 15,000.00.

You did pretty well - smart shopper!

404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:51:49pm

re: #399 ggt

IMO, there is no reason on earth to leave Chicago to go out of town to college. Unless, of course, you're a world class athlete and could go to a warm climate college for free.

405 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:52:22pm

re: #395 freetoken

They actually make lists of those sort of things?

They're doing voting. The actual "sycophant" voting list is: Ludwig, Obdicut, me, reine, Gus, and Hoops. They're calling their award the "Irish Rose". Even though she flounced from LGF, she still lives in their heads.

406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:53:00pm

re: #403 freetoken

Not really. Happened without a stitch of planning. Just turned out that way.

407 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:53:10pm

re: #404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

IMO, there is no reason on earth to leave Chicago to go out of town to college. Unless, of course, you're a world class athlete and could go to a warm climate college for free.

THe whole only child needing to get out of the house. IMHO,he canwork, go to school and get his own apartment (with some subsidizing) in a couple of years. Will end up much more mature and a little (maybe) more sober.

408 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:53:45pm

re: #398 HoosierHoops

Nope..I'm watching Antwone Fisher...It rips me to my very soul...Yes..I was so embarrassed that no one wanted me till I was I was 12...People think I'm so lucky I got adopted by a Napa Valley family...But I can hardly brush past the tears when this movie is on...The memories hurt beyond belief.. I love this movie..

you're a good dude

409 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:54:24pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

I'm not using that post to praise IR, but rather to illustrate the hatefulness of the Stalkers.

410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:55:03pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

They're doing voting. The actual "sycophant" voting list is: Ludwig, Obdicut, me, reine, Gus, and Hoops. They're calling their award the "Irish Rose". Even though she flounced from LGF, she still lives in their heads.

What the hell? What am I? Soy Chopped Liver?

411 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:55:33pm

re: #404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

IMO, there is no reason on earth to leave Chicago to go out of town to college. Unless, of course, you're a world class athlete and could go to a warm climate college for free.

The property taxes are through the roof, but all those liberal amenities!

412 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:56:11pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What the hell? What am I? Soy Chopped Liver?

organic soy-fed chopped liver

413 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:56:30pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What the hell? What am I? Soy Chopped Liver?

They started calling me Kalegore trout.

414 laZardo  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:56:36pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

They're doing voting. The actual "sycophant" voting list is: Ludwig, Obdicut, me, reine, Gus, and Hoops. They're calling their award the "Irish Rose". Even though she flounced from LGF, she still lives in their heads.

I didn't make it either? ;_;

415 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:56:55pm

re: #395 freetoken

They actually make lists of those sort of things?

Couldn't sleep.

Wait. It's much, much better.

They've got somebody over there who takes threads from LGF, copies them, and then posts them with threaded responses (not just straight threads like we do here). And I believe this same person also actually keeps track of who is registered, and what threads and dates they made comments, and how many comments overall they have.

Is that un-frikken-believable or what? Who has that kind of time?

416 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:57:20pm

re: #413 Killgore Trout

They started calling me Kalegore trout.

I prefer Swiss Chard.

417 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:57:55pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

BTW... check your email, Obi-Reine...

418 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:58:11pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

Couldn't sleep.

Wait. It's much, much better.

They've got somebody over there who takes threads from LGF, copies them, and then posts them with threaded responses (not just straight threads like we do here). And I believe this same person also actually keeps track of who is registered, and what threads and dates they made comments, and how many comments overall they have.

Is that un-frikken-believable or what? Who has that kind of time?

TMI, My hid is spinning. I think I have to go to bed soon.

419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:58:26pm

re: #413 Killgore Trout

Cause of your veggie gardens?

420 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:58:54pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

Someone who is obsessed? And has no other life? Lives in Mom's basement, fed by cheetos!

421 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:59:54pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What the hell? What am I? Soy Chopped Liver?

I've been crying in a fetal position for hours about my exclusion.

422 laZardo  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 7:59:59pm

re: #420 Floral Giraffe

Someone who is obsessed? And has no other life? Lives in Mom's basement, fed by cheetos!

Yeah- HEY. >:C

/

423 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:00:12pm

re: #420 Floral Giraffe

Someone who is obsessed? And has no other life? Lives in Mom's basement, fed by cheetos!

needs a swirlie or two?

424 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:01:27pm

I wonder if the irony of a Lizard who has been on a "time-out" is leading a "Lizard Sycophant" contest is lost on anyone.

425 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:02:04pm

re: #421 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've been crying in a fetal position for hours about my exclusion.

I know you are designing new weapons to rectify this outrage.

426 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:02:13pm

re: #423 ggt

needs a swirlie or two?

Ok, I'll be nice and compassionate.

By someone who desperately needs an intervention. Meds or counselling or both. Seriously, this person needs some professional help.

I'd worry if I were their mother.

427 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:02:24pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

They're doing voting. The actual "sycophant" voting list is: Ludwig, Obdicut, me, reine, Gus, and Hoops. They're calling their award the "Irish Rose". Even though she flounced from LGF, she still lives in their heads.

good lord...what a way to spend your time....here we have all the subject matter to learn about you could ever need

428 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:04:06pm

I am sure that they are all crapping their pants over at "Diary of Dead Louse" to see so many comments here.

Just remember, the attention they get here gives them orgasms. It's the only tickle in their entire lives.

429 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:04:30pm

Ok all, I have to be up and out early tomorrow.

Have a great evening!

430 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:04:34pm

re: #424 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Excuse me, but that is just rude.

431 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:05:03pm

re: #420 Floral Giraffe

Someone who is obsessed? And has no other life? Lives in Mom's basement, fed by cheetos!

And some one who has serious "daddy" issues, which explains the Charles-hate:

"I HATE YOU, DADDY!!1 PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!11"

432 freetoken  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:05:16pm

Reason #313 for why you should exercise daily:

Consistent Exercise Associated With Lower Risk of Colon Cancer Death

Consistent exercise is associated with a lower risk of dying from colon cancer, according to a new study led by researchers at the Siteman Cancer Center at Washington University School of Medicine and Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis. The study is among the first to show that physical activity can make the disease less deadly.

The Washington University researchers worked with colleagues from the American Cancer Society and examined data from the American Cancer Society Prevention Study II (CPS II) to look at whether changes in physical activity influenced either the incidence of colon cancer diagnosis or the risk of death from the disease.

The CPS II study included more than 150,000 men and women. To determine how exercise affected colon cancer, the researchers compared their levels of physical activity between 1982 and 1997, and linked those activity levels both to the number of colon cancer diagnoses between 1998 and 2005, and to the number of colon cancer deaths that occurred between 1998 and 2006. It turned out that those who exercised consistently for at least 10 years had the lowest risk of colon cancer death.

[...]

And physical activity even can be beneficial after a cancer diagnosis already has been made.

"There is evidence that being physically active can reduce the risk of recurrence and death following a cancer diagnosis," Wolin says. "So even those who haven't been physically active can begin exercising after their diagnosis and see some real benefits as well."

433 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:05:18pm

re: #428 Alouette

I am sure that they are all crapping their pants over at "Diary of Dead Louse" to see so many comments here.

Just remember, the attention they get here gives them orgasms. It's the only tickle in their entire lives.

which is why I resist even reading that slopola

434 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:05:53pm

re: #428 Alouette

I am sure that they are all crapping their pants over at "Diary of Dead Louse" to see so many comments here.

Just remember, the attention they get here gives them orgasms. It's the only tickle in their entire lives.

Ohhh, BURN!

435 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:06:06pm

re: #425 Floral Giraffe

I know you are designing new weapons to rectify this outrage.

Got a batch of Tyranids in the hatchery right now.

436 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:06:23pm

I don't have to go to work tomorrow. That means I get to bake for "Pie Day!"

I think I'll make a raspberry swirl coffee cake. Not technically a "pie" but still yummy.

437 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:07:39pm

re: #433 albusteve

whoops...
then commenting here

438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:07:57pm

re: #430 Floral Giraffe

Wasn't banging on LVQ with that. A true sycophant would never be banned or on a time out. That was my point.

I hope that did not appear to be an attack. It truly was not.

Was pointed toward the voters of which we were speaking.

439 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:08:30pm

re: #430 Floral Giraffe

Excuse me, but that is just rude.

really?...I thought it was an astute comment

440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:08:35pm

re: #436 Alouette

There's cake?

441 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:08:35pm

re: #431 Dark_Falcon

And some one who has serious "daddy" issues, which explains the Charles-hate:

"I HATE YOU, DADDY!!1 PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!11"

AND I NEVER LEARNED TO READ!

442 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:08:56pm

re: #440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's cake?

The cake is a lie.

443 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:10:36pm

UConn womens basketball just lost, for the first time in 90 games

444 laZardo  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:10:38pm

re: #442 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"The cake is a lie." - Senator Joe Wilson

Attributed. q;

445 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:10:49pm

re: #431 Dark_Falcon

And some one who has serious "daddy" issues, which explains the Charles-hate:

"I HATE YOU, DADDY!!1 PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!11"

Children would rather be praised than punished; but they'd rather be punished than ignored.
-Dr. Joy Browne

446 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:11:22pm

re: #442 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The cake is a lie.

My cake never lies.

447 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:11:28pm

re: #443 albusteve

Wow. Expected the win streak to go a couple more years.

448 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:11:47pm

re: #440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's cake?

My hubby just baked a vanilla birthday cake.

449 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:12:42pm

re: #446 Alouette

My cake never lies.

Cake always says that, but you know how cake lies.

450 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:13:36pm

re: #448 prairiefire

My hubby just baked a vanilla birthday cake.

He is a very sexy man.

451 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:13:59pm

re: #450 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He is a very sexy man.

check your e-mails.
Oh, please.

452 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:14:01pm

re: #447 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wow. Expected the win streak to go a couple more years.

nothing lasts forever, but this is one of their better teams I guess...almost surreal to win that any in a row, wondering when it will end

453 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:14:23pm

re: #443 albusteve

UConn womens basketball just lost, for the first time in 90 games

Their coach is crazy intense.

454 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:16:46pm

Gonna crash. G'night knuckleheads!

455 albusteve  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:21:44pm

I'm outski

456 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 8:51:41pm

re: #455 albusteve

I'm outski

Me too. I'm not feeling very well.

457 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:19:29pm

re: #453 prairiefire

Their coach is crazy intense.

YOU spend all those hours around all those women!!

////

458 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:22:33pm

re: #451 reine.de.tout

check your e-mails.
Oh, please.

and yours!

459 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:23:04pm

re: #449 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cake always says that, but you know how cake lies.

I have a pie thats highly suspicious!

460 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:25:17pm

re: #382 Alouette

Did I make the list? I'll be so devastated either way.

Sorry, no.

461 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:25:44pm

re: #394 Alouette

Where IS Ludwig? His timeout is going on way too long. And he is not answering my emails.

Has anyone heard from him?

Not me.

462 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:27:50pm

re: #413 Killgore Trout

They started calling me Kalegore trout.

That kale thing really seems to have freaked them out. They never saw anyone post pictures of stuff from their garden before?

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:28:28pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

Couldn't sleep.

Wait. It's much, much better.

They've got somebody over there who takes threads from LGF, copies them, and then posts them with threaded responses (not just straight threads like we do here). And I believe this same person also actually keeps track of who is registered, and what threads and dates they made comments, and how many comments overall they have.

Is that un-frikken-believable or what? Who has that kind of time?

It's pretty much a full-time obsession for at least one or two people.

464 Kragar  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:28:57pm

re: #459 sattv4u2

I have a pie thats highly suspicious!

Pie is capricious, but never cruel the way cake is.

465 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:29:45pm

re: #424 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wonder if the irony of a Lizard who has been on a "time-out" is leading a "Lizard Sycophant" contest is lost on anyone.

Actually, it feeds into their narrative, which is that lizards suck up to Charles and are then cast cruelly out.

They would welcome Ludwig with open arms if he showed up there cussing out Charles.

466 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:29:47pm

re: #462 SanFranciscoZionist

That kale thing really seems to have freaked them out. They never saw anyone post pictures of stuff from their garden before?

Gardening only leads to socialism!
/Wingnut

467 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:31:28pm

re: #466 Killgore Trout

Gardening only leads to socialism!
/Wingnut

What do they think they're gonna do with those non-hybrid seeds? Trade them for Twinkies?

468 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:34:43pm

re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist

What do they think they're gonna do with those non-hybrid seeds? Trade them for Twinkies?

Don't knock it until you've tried it!!

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds[Link: www.cnn.com...]

469 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:35:05pm

I made the rounds of my local fishmarkets today. I've always been kind of intimidated (same with the butcher's counter) about asking stupid questions. What's really interesting is how helpful they are, They want customers because people are mostly buying stuff from the megamarts and people don't even know how to deal with fish anymore. Even other customers were very helpful.

470 Buck  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:35:29pm

re: #461 SanFranciscoZionist

Not me.

Even I am worried about him, and I hate the guy....

471 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:36:33pm

re: #469 Killgore Trout

I made the rounds of my local fishmarkets today. I've always been kind of intimidated (same with the butcher's counter) about asking stupid questions. What's really interesting is how helpful they are, They want customers because people are mostly buying stuff from the megamarts and people don't even know how to deal with fish anymore. Even other customers were very helpful.

I go to small(ish) markets (butchers, fish, veggies, bakers) whenever possible
Always have, no matter where i've lived

472 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:36:40pm

re: #470 Buck

Even I am worried about him, and I hate the guy...

OK, had to upding for that.

473 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:37:11pm

re: #470 Buck

Even I am worried about him, and I hate the guy...

I don't care enough about him to hate him!!

474 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:42:45pm

re: #471 sattv4u2

I go to small(ish) markets (butchers, fish, veggies, bakers) whenever possible
Always have, no matter where i've lived

I'm just getting comfortable with the fish markets. Someone was nice enough to get me an Amazon gift card which I used to buy Charcuterie. I've already googled my local butchers and I'm looking forward to pestering them with my stupid noob questions.

475 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 9:48:22pm

re: #474 Killgore Trout

I'm just getting comfortable with the fish markets. Someone was nice enough to get me an Amazon gift card which I used to buy Charcuterie. I've already googled my local butchers and I'm looking forward to pestering them with my stupid noob questions.

I've never had one that wasn't accommodating no matter how much I badgered them.
I'll be ready to pick out something (say a piece of steak) and as I tell them what I want to do with it (broil ,,BBQ,, or something else) they will steer me to the "correct" cut even if it's not as expensive

476 samgak  Thu, Dec 30, 2010 11:15:17pm

If that chat logs don't back up what Lamo has said, that's newsworthy.

If they do, that's also newsworthy.

477 Usually refered to as anyways  Fri, Dec 31, 2010 12:27:55am

Happy New Year to all the lizards.

May 2011 see employment and prosperity for you and those you love.
Enjoy this time with good friends and good food.

Charles thanks for your effort, and thanks for letting me post.

Be always at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let each New Year find you a better man. -- Benjamin Franklin

19:25 12/31/2010 Australia eastern time.
4.5 hours to midnight.

478 kirkspencer  Fri, Dec 31, 2010 5:33:36am

way, WAY late to this particular discussion but....

re: #172 reine.de.tout

In my opinion, based on information I have seen:
Manning stole information and passed it to Assange, who had a network for dissemination.
Assange decided to use his network and disseminate the information, thus completing the theft.

That is an example of a clear and concise statement of a person's position on this.
Care to share yours?

What is the difference between Wikileaks and the New York Times, the Guardian, et al?

Wikileaks gave (not sold) this material to those organizations, who also knew its provenance. They are the ones who actually published it for public consumption.

By the position you hold these news media sources are just as guilty.

Two relevant facts. 1) Wikileaks has only released what these five papers approved. Not everything, not unredacted. 2) Wikileaks is a registered news media organization, and has been for a few years.

The difference matters.

479 reine.de.tout  Fri, Dec 31, 2010 6:39:37am

re: #478 kirkspencer

way, WAY late to this particular discussion but...
What is the difference between Wikileaks and the New York Times, the Guardian, et al?

Wikileaks gave (not sold) this material to those organizations, who also knew its provenance. They are the ones who actually published it for public consumption.

By the position you hold these news media sources are just as guilty.

Two relevant facts. 1) Wikileaks has only released what these five papers approved. Not everything, not unredacted. 2) Wikileaks is a registered news media organization, and has been for a few years.

The difference matters.

See this.

480 ihateronpaul  Fri, Dec 31, 2010 9:18:13am

I'm impressed by the amount of hyperventilation that greenwald has been doing...haaha


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