On Face the Nation, here’s a glimpse of what the new Tea-flavored GOP will be up to when they take charge of the House. First item on the agenda: refusing to raise the debt ceiling and shutting down the government.
Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Mars) explains why this would be a good thing:
1 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:03:39pm |
Hope I don't need a sarcasm tag on that last line.
| 3 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:07:53pm |
It's like they are on a Cassandra trip, trying to build a self-fulfilling prophecy of government always having to fail.
| 4 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:10:11pm |
re: #3 000G
You are right. They are on a "trip." I hope they wake up soon.
| 5 |
Kragar Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:11:29pm |
So, their first day on the job and they plan to strike.
| 6 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:13:16pm |
re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So, their first day on the job and they plan to strike.
would they lose health benefits during the strike?............
that might change a few R minds.
| 7 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:13:22pm |
Mike Kelly didn't use his own money. He used his daddy's money from his caddy dealership.
| 8 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:13:58pm |
more stuff about Taitz+ Cantor at this Republican jewish Coalition event
Witness the mainstreaming of Orly Taitz?The longtime Birther agitator and dentist who is now running for the GOP secretary of state nomination in California was a "special guest" of the Republican Jewish Coalition at the group's "annual summer bash" at the Beverly Hills Hilton Sunday. Also in attendance: GOP heavyweights Karl Rove, former Senator Norm Coleman, and California Senate candidates Chuck DeVore and Carly Fiorina.
The program for the event, touted by Taitz on her website, lists about 15 "Special Guests" including Coleman, Reps. Connie Mack (R-FL), Mary Bono Mack (R-CA), Edward Royce (R-CA), and Taitz. Speakers included Rove, who gave the keynote and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) (with whom Taitz is already acquainted).
An RJC staffer confirmed the program posted by Taitz is authentic. RJC Executive Director Matt Brooks was not immediately available for comment.
Taitz, one of a few California GOP candidates at the event, came to the United States from Moldova by way of Israel. Her website is a leading source of conspiracy theories about President Obama, or, as she would call him, "the de facto President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama."
[Link: www.salon.com...]
Invited!
| 9 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:14:17pm |
re: #7 recusancy
Mike Kelly didn't use his own money. He used his daddy's money from his caddy dealership.
you cannot make this shit up :D
| 10 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:14:23pm |
Some of the guys (and gals) firmly believe that they were sent to Washington to be obstructive assholes. And I am sure that is what many voters had in mind, but I doubt it was the majority.
| 11 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:14:54pm |
re: #10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Some of the guys (and gals) firmly believe that they were sent to Washington to be obstructive assholes. And I am sure that is what many voters had in mind, but I doubt it was the majority.
this isn't obstructionism so much as it's sabotage
| 12 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:15:20pm |
re: #10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
The voters who had this in mind probably also had paint fumes for lunch
| 13 |
Interesting Times in Benghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:15:21pm |
re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So, their first day on the job and they plan to strike.
Union Teahadi thugs
| 14 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:15:26pm |
re: #7 recusancy
Mike Kelly didn't use his own money. He used his daddy's money from his caddy dealership.
A dealership that probably would have went under had GM not been saved by the government.
| 15 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:15:30pm |
re: #11 WindUpBird
this isn't obstructionism so much as it's sabotage
Like going back in time to the Bush years, huh.
| 16 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:17:40pm |
re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Like going back in time to the Bush years, huh.
The government shutdown was Newt during the Clinton presidency, wasn't it? ;-)
| 17 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:18:24pm |
OSI+Porcupine Tree: shutDOWN
| 18 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:20:59pm |
re: #16 WindUpBird
I was speaking of the larger issue of all the investigations and total bullshit that Congress is going to pull on the Administration over the coming two years.
Dems did the same numbskull when they had the power and Bush was in the White House.
It won't be Iraq. It'll be HealthCare, or Afganistan, or bullshit outrage of the day.
| 19 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:22:13pm |
I've pretty much stayed off politics the last month, but my strength and popcorn reserves are restored. Less than 22 months to the election night thread!!1!
| 20 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:22:58pm |
re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was speaking of the larger issue of all the investigations and total bullshit that Congress is going to pull on the Administration over the coming two years.
Dems did the same numbskull when they had the power and Bush was in the White House.
It won't be Iraq. It'll be HealthCare, or Afganistan, or bullshit outrage of the day.
Sorry, i don't actually believe Democrats rose to the level of sabotage like the Tea Party wants ;-)
| 21 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:25:15pm |
re: #7 recusancy
Mike Kelly didn't use his own money. He used his daddy's money from his caddy dealership.
Of course that wouldn't matter if his name was Kennedy, Rockefeller or Kerry. Just make sure you have the "D" behind your name and the media/Democrat Party will cheer-lead for you. No hypocrisy to see here. Move along.
| 22 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:26:36pm |
re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was speaking of the larger issue of all the investigations and total bullshit that Congress is going to pull on the Administration over the coming two years.
Dems did the same numbskull when they had the power and Bush was in the White House.
It won't be Iraq. It'll be HealthCare, or Afganistan, or bullshit outrage of the day.
The only thing I remember being investigated pointlessly was Roger Clemens. The Libby thing was done by an independent prosecutor and the state attorney scandal was a real thing.
| 23 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:27:59pm |
re: #21 rwmofo
Of course that wouldn't matter if his name was Kennedy, Rockefeller or Kerry. Just make sure you have the "D" behind your name and the media/Democrat Party will cheer-lead for you. No hypocrisy to see here. Move along.
Hear the rime of the balance fairy
catch his eye as he stops one of three
unloads his crap on some LGF guests
stay here and listen to the same old GOP
| 24 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:28:36pm |
The incoming House Oversight and Government Reform chairman on Sunday tried to clarify his recent remarks to Rush Limbaugh where he called President Obama "one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times."Rep. Darrell Issa said he meant to say the Obama administration instead of the president.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]
| 25 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:28:50pm |
re: #21 rwmofo
Of course that wouldn't matter if his name was Kennedy, Rockefeller or Kerry. Just make sure you have the "D" behind your name and the media/Democrat Party will cheer-lead for you. No hypocrisy to see here. Move along.
I don't think you understand hypocrisy.
| 26 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:29:03pm |
re: #22 recusancy
The only thing I remember being investigated pointlessly was Roger Clemens. The Libby thing was done by an independent prosecutor and the state attorney scandal was a real thing.
ROGER CLEMENS hahahaha
God damn I forgot all about that :D VERY IMPORTANT BUSINESS WE HAVE, messing with guys who throw a ball around
| 27 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:29:32pm |
re: #24 000G
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]
That's still a pretty formidable statement. What is he backing it up with?
| 28 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:29:54pm |
re: #26 WindUpBird
ROGER CLEMENS hahahaha
God damn I forgot all about that :D VERY IMPORTANT BUSINESS WE HAVE, messing with guys who throw a ball around
And it ended up being partisan too! Republicans liked him cause he was a conservative from Texas.
| 29 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:29:55pm |
re: #20 WindUpBird
Sorry, i don't actually believe Democrats rose to the level of sabotage like the Tea Party wants ;-)
That's your inner partisan talking.
| 30 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:30:25pm |
re: #25 recusancy
I don't think you understand hypocrisy.
that guy is like one of those It's a Small World dolls, he sings his GOP talking point song, his wooden head spins around and the gondola floats on
| 31 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:30:58pm |
re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist
That's still a pretty formidable statement. What is he backing it up with?
Well, let me quote the rest of that article I just linked, for you ;-)
"When you hand out $1 trillion in TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) just before this president came in, most of it unspent, $1 trillion nearly in stimulus, that this president asked for, plus this huge expansion in health care and government, it has a corrupting effect," Issa said on CNN's "State of the Union."
Although TARP – the program passed in 2008 intended to strengthen the financial sector by purchasing assets from financial institutions – was passed by Congress under the Bush administration, Issa said the unregulated funds were used by Obama like "presidential earmarks."
But the California Republican also admitted Congress shares some of the blame.
"All of that would not have been possible if Congress had done its job," Issa told CNN Chief White House Correspondent Ed Henry. "Instead what happened was we gave President Bush (the money and) President Obama inherited $800 billion worth of walking-around money with no guidelines."
| 32 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:31:21pm |
re: #28 recusancy
And it ended up being partisan too! Republicans liked him cause he was a conservative from Texas.
ahahahaha oh man when tribal politics TRULY is laid bare for what it is, as shallow as sports. Root for our guy! Get their guy!
| 33 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:31:52pm |
re: #22 recusancy
The only thing I remember being investigated pointlessly was Roger Clemens. The Libby thing was done by an independent prosecutor and the state attorney scandal was a real thing.
Was it?
What I recall is state attorneys being fired and replaced, which is customary, IMO. Except folks didn't like it when it happened under Bush.
| 34 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:32:06pm |
re: #29 reine.de.tout
That's your inner partisan talking.
Sorry, I don't play magical balance fairy games. Obdicut is busy, so I dunno how to help you folks
| 35 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:32:21pm |
Somebody tell me whether this post on one of the most fanatical tea party sites about global warming is less deranged denial than usual or just cloaked masterfully: [Link: cc.bingj.com...]
| 36 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:32:29pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
Was it?
What I recall is state attorneys being fired and replaced, which is customary, IMO. Except folks didn't like it when it happened under Bush.
That's your inner partisan talking.
| 37 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:32:53pm |
re: #20 WindUpBird
Sorry, i don't actually believe Democrats rose to the level of sabotage like the Tea Party wants ;-)
Assessment by Brookings Institute of the Dems 110th Congress:
"Legislative Productivity
Quantitative assessments of the legislative productivity of the 104th and 110th
Congresses are limited gauges of congressional performance. The legislation passed
by the two chambers is increasingly dominated by routine and symbolic measures.
Both new majority congresses passed more substantive measures than their
predecessors, but the number of public laws signed by the president declined in both
cases. This is largely a consequence of moving from unified to divided-party
government. Substantive and political differences between a president of one party
and a congressional majority of the other, especially during a time of deep ideological
polarization, make the policymaking process more difficult to navigate. At the same
time, we know from past experience that divided-party governments are not doomed
to gridlock.
During their initial year in power, the Democratic majority in 2007 significantly
outperformed the Republican Congress that took up the gavel in 1995 in terms of
the number and significance of new public laws. Only one item in the Republican
Contract With America was signed into law at the end of 1995, while most of the
Democratic New Direction Agenda proposals were enacted. Democrats aimed lower
in their legislative promises and overcame the many obstacles in their way. Their
legislative harvest included a number of long-stalled proposals, including higher fuel-
efficiency standards for motor vehicles, a minimum wage increase, and..."
ASSESSING THE 110TH CONGRESS, ANTICIPATING THE 111TH
PFD File at this site:
[Link: www.brookings.edu...]
| 38 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:32:55pm |
re: #34 WindUpBird
Sorry, I don't play magical balance fairy games. Obdicut is busy, so I dunno how to help you folks
Tribal politics, WUB.
Just go for it.
That's all I'm saying.
| 39 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:33:18pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
Was it?
What I recall is state attorneys being fired and replaced, which is customary, IMO. Except folks didn't like it when it happened under Bush.
When you get fired because you didn't investigate a political opponent before an election there's a problem.
| 40 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:33:20pm |
anyone who would like to point to
a
government
SHUTDOWN
orchestrated by Democrats under bush. Like the full real deal here
hook me up!
Reine? FBW? Come on! let's see that SHUTDOWN
| 41 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:33:26pm |
Bachmann (R-Mars) is such a twit. "Congress has had a big party the last two years; they couldn't spend enough money." Helloooooooo, Michelle? Are you not aware that President Bush did not veto a single bill his first six years, and that "fiscal responsibility" became an issue to Bush, Boehner, et al only when the Democrats regained control in 2006? Clinton's last budget was close to $1T, Bush's last budget was over $3T. I want you tea-bagging hypocrites to tell me where were your signs, and ads, and protesting President Obama big government spending then?
| 42 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:33:28pm |
re: #36 recusancy
That's your inner partisan talking.
Well, OK, maybe.
So, what was scandalous?
Seriously
| 43 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:34:10pm |
re: #39 recusancy
When you get fired because you didn't investigate a political opponent before an election there's a problem.
My understanding is that state attorneys may be replaced, and commonly are, when there is a change of administration.
| 44 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:34:16pm |
I'll be over in the corner drinking with Tinkerbell. She says to stop calling her, she doesn't balance anything
| 45 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:34:49pm |
re: #43 reine.de.tout
My understanding is that state attorneys may be replaced, and commonly are, when there is a change of administration.
He fired his own appointees. Republicans. Staunch ones.
| 46 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:36:43pm |
We no longer have wingnut mornings.
I disagree with WUB on an issue and call out his partisanship, and all of a sudden, without warning, without me even pulling out a magical balance fairy, he's accusing me of "magical balance".
feh.
So wingnut mornings are gone, replaced by moonbat Sundays?
re: #45 recusancy
He fired his own appointees. Republicans. Staunch ones.
And so . . . what?
It's my understanding that these poeple can be replaced. There is no permanence to those jobs.
Is that not so?
| 47 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:37:37pm |
re: #46 reine.de.tout
We no longer have wingnut mornings.
I disagree with WUB on an issue and call out his partisanship, and all of a sudden, without warning, without me even pulling out a magical balance fairy, he's accusing me of "magical balance".feh.
So wingnut mornings are gone, replaced by moonbat Sundays?
And so . . . what?
It's my understanding that these poeple can be replaced. There is no permanence to those jobs.
Is that not so?
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 48 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:39:51pm |
"I acknowledge that mistakes were made here. I accept that responsibility," Gonzales said. He said he did not know the details of the plan to fire the prosecutors, but he defended the dismissals: "I stand by the decision, and I think it was a right decision."The remarks came after the Justice Department released e-mails and other documents showing that, despite months of administration statements to the contrary, the White House more than two years ago initiated the process that led to the dismissals, and that the decisions were heavily influenced by assessments of the prosecutors' political loyalty. President Bush and senior White House adviser Karl Rove also separately passed along complaints to Gonzales that prosecutors were not aggressively pursuing voter-fraud cases, officials said.
I would think that would be NORMAL, to replace appointees who you feel are not pursuing your objectives. That happens in every state agency I ever worked for. It is not odd. The CEO has a right to have people in his appointed positions who will support whatever his agenda is. Period.
| 49 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:40:45pm |
re: #44 WindUpBird
I'll be over in the corner drinking with Tinkerbell. She says to stop calling her, she doesn't balance anything
Your usual insults and oh-so-cute sound bites.
Lovely.
| 50 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:41:58pm |
Issa demands Holder probe ACORN, other issuesGOP's House investigator wants the attorney general to study ACORN, New Black Panther Party, and Wikileaks
The Republican's top House investigator has a suggestion for Attorney General Eric Holder: Step it up or step down.
[Link: salon.com...]
Btw:
re: #35 000G
Somebody tell me whether this post on one of the most fanatical tea party sites about global warming is less deranged denial than usual or just cloaked masterfully: [Link: cc.bingj.com...]
Anyone want to comment on this?
| 51 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:43:58pm |
I worked for state government for more years than I like to think about.
There are different categories of employee:
1. Permanent work force, career employees, whose jobs are Civil Service protected to ensure that state services continue to be provided seamlessly when there is an administration change, and:
2. Unprotected appointees, whose appointments are made at the pleasure of the Governor, so that the governor can assure his top agency heads are people on board with the agenda he ran on and was elected on. Not being able to make these appointments would be like working with someone who is committed to undoing your every move, every time you make one. Nothing would get accomplished.
| 52 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:44:17pm |
re: #50 000G
[Link: salon.com...]
Btw:
Anyone want to comment on this?
Yeah. ACORN doesn't exist anymore (to the detriment of many needy people). Maybe someone should inform him of this fact.
| 53 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:45:20pm |
re: #52 recusancy
Yeah. ACORN doesn't exist anymore (to the detriment of many needy people). Maybe someone should inform him of this fact.
Time to investigate Crypto-ACORN? /
| 54 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:46:09pm |
re: #44 WindUpBird
I'll be over in the corner drinking with Tinkerbell. She says to stop calling her, she doesn't balance anything
That's not very nice, WUB.
| 55 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:46:44pm |
re: #53 000G
Time to investigate Crypto-ACORN? /
I have never seen anything quite like the passion brought to the whole ACORN thing.
| 56 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:47:08pm |
| 57 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:47:45pm |
re: #50 000G
[Link: salon.com...]
Btw:
Anyone want to comment on this?
It's hard to maintain a loud caterwauling when you're metabolizing a case of Coors?
| 58 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:48:08pm |
Obama aide: Debt limit fight could be "catastrophic"
(Reuters) - A fight over the budget loomed on Sunday as a top aide to President Barack Obama warned of catastrophic consequences if Republicans follow through on threats to reject an increase in the nation's borrowing limit.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 59 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:48:48pm |
re: #57 Decatur Deb
It's hard to maintain a loud caterwauling when you're metabolizing a case of Coors?
Sorry, that went over my head. I'm a foreigner.
| 60 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:49:37pm |
| 61 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:50:29pm |
re: #59 000G
Sorry, that went over my head. I'm a foreigner.
Coors is the beer with right-wing associations likely to be (ab)used by her listeners the night before.
| 62 |
Kragar Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:50:53pm |
Issa says Obama administration is 'one of most corrupt'
Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the incoming chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, was bullish in laying out his agenda for the new Congress under GOP control of the House.
Issa, who as chairman will have subpoena power, said he would seek to ferret out waste across the federal bureaucracy. While he used fiery rhetoric in describing the Obama administration in a series of television interviews Sunday, he said he would focus on wasteful spending over political persecutions.
Asked on "Fox News Sunday" about reports that the White House is staffing up on lawyers to prepare for his oversight hearings, Issa said: "They're going to need more accountants."
| 63 |
Linden Arden Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:51:03pm |
Truthdig: Michelle Bachman - Welfare Queen
But data compiled from federal records by Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit watchdog that tracks the recipients of agricultural subsidies in the United States, shows that Bachmann has an inner Marxist that is perfectly at ease with profiting from taxpayer largesse. According to the organization’s records, Bachmann’s family farm received $251,973 in federal subsidies between 1995 and 2006. The farm had been managed by Bachmann’s recently deceased father-in-law and took in roughly $20,000 in 2006 and $28,000 in 2005, with the bulk of the subsidies going to dairy and corn. Both dairy and corn are heavily subsidized—or “socialized”—businesses in America (in 2005 alone, Washington spent $4.8 billion propping up corn prices) and are subject to strict government price controls. These subsidies are at the heart of America’s bizarre planned agricultural economy and as far away from Michele Bachmann’s free-market dream world as Cuba’s free medical system. If American farms such as hers were forced to compete in the global free market, they would collapse.
| 64 |
Kragar Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:51:30pm |
| 65 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:51:41pm |
re: #61 Decatur Deb
Coors is the beer with right-wing associations likely to be (ab)used by her listeners the night before.
Coors has right-wing associations? I thought it just tasted terrible.
| 66 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:52:21pm |
| 67 |
Kragar Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:53:39pm |
| 68 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:53:46pm |
re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist
Coors has right-wing associations? I thought it just tasted terrible.
Coors family is bent that way. They've been throwing big bucks to hardcore RW since the '70s. They're on my permanent boycott. (Glad Guinness has no political implications.)
| 69 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:54:26pm |
re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist
Coors has right-wing associations? I thought it just tasted terrible.
There may be a correlation there.
Pete Coors ran for senate and was for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
| 70 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:54:49pm |
re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist
I have never seen anything quite like the passion brought to the whole ACORN thing.
That's because of the nature of ACORN. ACORN was created to move local politics to the left and that by definition made it hated by anyone who thinks themselves conservative. There are some fools, though who let their emotions get the better of them and had to look for some sort of grand conspiracy in ACORN. There isn't one, though. Most of its aims were socialist, but it was not a criminal organization. But that socialism was reason enough for me to still be glad for its demise.
| 71 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:55:03pm |
re: #68 Decatur Deb
Coors family is bent that way. They've been throwing big bucks to hardcore RW since the '70s. They're on my permanent boycott. (Glad Guinness has no political implications.)
Brendan Behan and his friends reportedly once held up a pub, and collected everyone's money, claiming it was for the IRA.
One of the patrons yelled, "You're a liar, Behan. The only cause you're collecting for is the cause of Arthur Guinness!"
| 72 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:56:35pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
That's because of the nature of ACORN. ACORN was created to move local politics to the left and that by definition made it hated by anyone who thinks themselves conservative. There are some fools, though who let their emotions get the better of them and had to look for some sort of grand conspiracy in ACORN. There isn't one, though. Most of its aims were socialist, but it was not a criminal organization. But that socialism was reason enough for me to still be glad for its demise.
From the outside, it seemed as if ACORN was to the Conservatives what the Tea Party is to Liberals in terms of partisan disdain.
| 73 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:56:50pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
That's because of the nature of ACORN. ACORN was created to move local politics to the left and that by definition made it hated by anyone who thinks themselves conservative. There are some fools, though who let their emotions get the better of them and had to look for some sort of grand conspiracy in ACORN. There isn't one, though. Most of its aims were socialist, but it was not a criminal organization. But that socialism was reason enough for me to still be glad for its demise.
Despite the fact that it was torn down for purely partisan reasons?
What do you see as ACORN's socialist aims?
| 74 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:57:09pm |
re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist
Brendan Behan and his friends reportedly once held up a pub, and collected everyone's money, claiming it was for the IRA.
One of the patrons yelled, "You're a liar, Behan. The only cause you're collecting for is the cause of Arthur Guinness!"
The Guinness brewery was one of the buildings occupied during the Easter Rebellion.
| 75 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:57:23pm |
re: #63 Linden Arden
Yes, but like almost everyone, Michelle Bachmann takes it for granted that the subsidies she receives are a good thing. Sickening, and yet another reason why agriculture policy reform is needed, but is unlikely to happen.
| 76 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:57:48pm |
If you didn't watch this, take a few minutes just to get a feel for Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. In addition to her normal sleight of hand, she got the last word and claimed that "President Obama created more jobs last year than the total jobs combined created under eight years of the Bush administration."
I guess "Bush lied" about the low unemployment rate during his presidency - or something.
| 77 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 2, 2011 1:58:48pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
You are treading on "ends justify the means" territory here.
| 79 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:01:01pm |
People ask me all the time why I jumped off the GOP's ship a few years ago. Well, there are many, but I give you Exhibit A. You may know her as the Shrieking harpy, and this is its her latest incomprehensible screed. Stay proud, Baggers. It She speaks for you.
PEPSI, TAKE THE JIHAD CHALLENGE!
So this is the ad for the super duper Supe Bowl advertising opportunity. Watch it here (hat tip Madeline)
This is their big Madison Avenue moment.
Funny? Not. Insulting to Catholics? Totally. In a free country, these demeaning, cheap shots are to be expected but I dare Pepsi to mock Islam.
I dare Pepsi to give the same treatment to Imams. I dare Pepsi to mock Islamic flock. I dare Pepsi not to crap their pants and put the safety of the Superbowl in jeapardy and insult Islam.
Assclowns. And they pay millions to Madison Avenue maroons. If Pepsi airs this, demand Catholic sensitivity training. Demand apolgies. Demand contributions to groups that advance Christianity.
But certainly do not drink Pepsi or eat those damn chips.
| 80 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:01:17pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
That's because of the nature of ACORN. ACORN was created to move local politics to the left and that by definition made it hated by anyone who thinks themselves conservative. There are some fools, though who let their emotions get the better of them and had to look for some sort of grand conspiracy in ACORN. There isn't one, though. Most of its aims were socialist, but it was not a criminal organization. But that socialism was reason enough for me to still be glad for its demise.
Your ideology is more important then peoples lives. Nice.
| 81 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:01:58pm |
re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist
Coors has right-wing associations? I thought it just tasted terrible.
I lived in Colorado a long time and that place is BIG on micro-breweries with a huge selection of beers. Coors sells very well; just not on my tab. IIRC, most people in Colorado drink something else.
| 82 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:02:09pm |
ABC This Week Panel: We’re in Crisis. Time for Tea-GOPers to “Grow Up”:
| 83 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:02:28pm |
re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist
Despite the fact that it was torn down for purely partisan reasons?
What do you see as ACORN's socialist aims?
SFZ, those partisan reason would have been enough for any conservative to atack. When you have a big chance to disrupt the other side's political infrastructure, you have to take it. Most of my sources on ACORN's socialism are in print and not accessible to me at this moment (I'm at my parent's house, having helped take down their Christmas tree), but here's an article on ACORN's actions of a few years ago:
| 84 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:03:06pm |
re: #79 Kid A
It looks like your post is missing a (video?) link.
| 85 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:04:51pm |
re: #84 Decatur Deb
Did it? Even if so, and if I played it, I fear the Harpy might come flying out of my screen and turn me into a rambling, incoherent asshole.
| 86 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:06:27pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
SFZ, those partisan reason would have been enough for any conservative to atack. When you have a big chance to disrupt the other side's political infrastructure, you have to take it.
No. You don't. Not like that.
| 87 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:06:55pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
SFZ, those partisan reason would have been enough for any conservative to atack. When you have a big chance to disrupt the other side's political infrastructure, you have to take it. Most of my sources on ACORN's socialism are in print and not accessible to me at this moment (I'm at my parent's house, having helped take down their Christmas tree), but here's an article on ACORN's actions of a few years ago:
Oh noes! A lobby for poor people. Can't have that. Only for corporations and rich people. If only those young bucks buying t-bone steaks would pull themselves up by their boot straps.
| 88 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:07:22pm |
re: #77 bratwurst
You are treading on "ends justify the means" territory here.
I disagree. Winning in politics often takes other forms other than simply trying to win people over. Often, destroying parts of the other side's political infrastructure will prevent some of their voters from even showing up. It also reduces their ability to mobilize activists and campaign, further depressing their morale and ability to get out their vote.
| 89 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:07:28pm |
re: #84 Decatur Deb
Here it is. Would someone PLEASE tell me what is so offensive about this that would make the Harpy rant the way she did?
| 90 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:08:30pm |
re: #84 Decatur Deb
[Link: www.crashthesuperbowl.com...]
Sorry! Okay, now can someone explain to me what is so offensive about this to Harpy and her shrieking followers?
| 91 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:08:45pm |
re: #88 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. Winning in politics often takes other forms other than simply trying to win people over. Often, destroying parts of the other side's political infrastructure will prevent some of their voters from even showing up. It also reduces their ability to mobilize activists and campaign, further depressing their morale and ability to get out their vote.
Oh my...the ghost of Saul Alinsky has possessed DF!/
| 92 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:10:30pm |
re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist
No. You don't. Not like that.
There's a lot of that going around:
'Relax' Robocaller's Lawyer Argues 'Dirty Tricks' Are Free Speech ...
(Cache link)
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 93 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:10:51pm |
re: #91 bratwurst
Oh my...the ghost of Saul Alinsky has possessed DF!/
I'd call it the ghost of Niccolo Machiavelli, mixed in with some Curtis LeMay myself. >:D
| 94 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:10:55pm |
Here's the entire post from Harpy. This thing woman is clearly from somewhere other than earth. I mean, the stupidity is typical mind boggling.
[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]
| 95 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:11:51pm |
Glenn Beck has found a sympathetic ear here for his anti social justice agenda.
| 96 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:12:21pm |
re: #89 Kid A
Still not importing as a hot link. Should look blue in the text. (I'm guessing that Donoghue will get more airtime if it's overtly anti-Catholic.)
| 97 |
simoom Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:12:46pm |
Also today, Alan West on Fox News Sunday, after calling the government "tyrannical, socialist," and "despicable," made it clear that raising the debt ceiling and avoiding the US defaulting on it's debt, would only be allowed if the Dems capitulated to deep enough spending cuts.
I just hope the markets feel these guys are bluffing and we avoid some sort of financial freak-out as the deadline approaches.
| 98 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:13:04pm |
re: #94 Kid A
Normally we use Google cache links here to to avoid linking directly to Shrieky.
| 99 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:13:47pm |
| 100 |
Kid Aghazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:14:18pm |
re: #98 Dark_Falcon
Falcon, I clicked it and it went right to the Shrieker's web site. (?????)
| 101 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:14:19pm |
re: #95 recusancy
Glenn Beck has found a sympathetic ear here for his anti social justice agenda.
Not from me, friend. Glenn Beck is a loon and I've "refeudiated" him several times here.
| 102 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:14:39pm |
re: #90 Kid A
[Link: www.crashthesuperbowl.com...]
Sorry! Okay, now can someone explain to me what is so offensive about this to Harpy and her shrieking followers?
Hmmm.
It could be seen as irreverent, since it's showing Doritos being substituted for the Host--albeit, apparently in a church that probably does not subscribe to literal transubstantiation.
It was made to appeal to a predominantly Christian audience.
Pam's ire is based on the idea that it's mocking Christianity, and that Pepsi wouldn't dare do something similar involving Islam.
The fact that most of the audience wouldn't get the joke if it were, since most Americans are more familiar with Christianity than Islam, or that such an ad would have far less general appeal, doesn't factor in to Pam's calculations.
| 103 |
Amory Blaine Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:14:52pm |
I'm all for these nutjobs pushing their agenda. The sooner and harder the better. I want to see their full ideology fail spectacularly and callously.
| 104 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:15:55pm |
re: #100 Kid A
Falcon, I clicked it and it went right to the Shrieker's web site. (???)
If you've tried your best, then no harm no foul. Sometimes cache links don't work right, and we do need to keep an eye on that lunatic.
| 105 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:16:17pm |
re: #101 Dark_Falcon
Not from me, friend. Glenn Beck is a loon and I've "refeudiated" him several times here.
Well you're right in line with him on ideology.
| 106 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:16:21pm |
re: #90 Kid A
[Link: www.crashthesuperbowl.com...]
Sorry! Okay, now can someone explain to me what is so offensive about this to Harpy and her shrieking followers?
It's offensive enough to a lot of people, not precisely anti-Catholic (no stations in the Protestant-looking church).
| 107 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:17:04pm |
re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist
Hmmm.
It could be seen as irreverent, since it's showing Doritos being substituted for the Host--albeit, apparently in a church that probably does not subscribe to literal transubstantiation.
It was made to appeal to a predominantly Christian audience.
Pam's ire is based on the idea that it's mocking Christianity, and that Pepsi wouldn't dare do something similar involving Islam.
The fact that most of the audience wouldn't get the joke if it were, since most Americans are more familiar with Christianity than Islam, or that such an ad would have far less general appeal, doesn't factor in to Pam's calculations.
Agreed. The whole point of the commercial is that most Catholics have a good sense of humor. The ad is targeted at a Christian audience that probably finds it funny.
| 108 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:17:32pm |
re: #105 recusancy
Well you're right in line with him on ideology.
You mean the whole "anyone to the left of Joe Lieberman is a SOCIALIST" thing?
| 109 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:17:49pm |
| 110 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:20:58pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
some people go out of their way for the taste of RC
| 111 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:21:41pm |
re: #108 bratwurst
You mean the whole "anyone to the left of Joe Lieberman is a SOCIALIST" thing?
You know I don't think that way, bratwurst. Dianne Feinstein, for example, is not a socialist, nor is Chuck Schumer, nor are the Clintons socialists. But ACORN was not simply conventionally liberal, and it consistently worked towards statist ends. Saying that does not make me identical to Glenn Beck.
| 112 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:22:20pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
Heh. For some reason I get the feeling that this guy will blame "Da Joooos!!!" for most things we like.
| 113 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:22:33pm |
| 114 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:22:40pm |
re: #107 Killgore Trout
Agreed. The whole point of the commercial is that most Catholics have a good sense of humor. The ad is targeted at a Christian audience that probably finds it funny.
I find it a tad tasteless, but not because no Muslims were mocked in the making of it.
| 115 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:23:57pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
So Pepsi is both a "sellout to Islam" to one batch of crazies and and a "Zionist plot" to another batch of crazies. Nutcase haters will always find reasons to hate, regardless of the facts.
| 116 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:24:17pm |
| 117 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:24:35pm |
re: #88 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. Winning in politics often takes other forms other than simply trying to win people over. Often, destroying parts of the other side's political infrastructure will prevent some of their voters from even showing up. It also reduces their ability to mobilize activists and campaign, further depressing their morale and ability to get out their vote.
Hey, so if a bunch of republican activists block some roads, is that cool with you?
if a bunch of republican activists obstruct black polling places, passing out handbills in hispanic polling places claiming that their voting day is after the election, is that cool with you?
If some republican activists show up and cross their arms in front of black schools to intimidate the "other side" meeting there for a town hall? That cool with you?
I just want to know what infrastructure is off limits here!
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH
| 118 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:25:55pm |
re: #113 bratwurst
Never mind that Pepsi has been around 45 years longer than Israel.
Just shows how deep the plot goes. (A friend took me through the plant museum at Israeli Military Industries, and showed me a Sten Gun copy they had made in 1946. I said "There was no Israel or IMI in 1946." He just smiled.)
| 119 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:25:57pm |
the reason i go to "black" is because a lot of this intimidating civil rights activists and destroying their political infrastrcture, that's the history of our country
| 120 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:27:25pm |
re: #117 WindUpBird
Hey, so if a bunch of republican activists block some roads, is that cool with you?
if a bunch of republican activists obstruct black polling places, passing out handbills in hispanic polling places claiming that their voting day is after the election, is that cool with you?
If some republican activists show up and cross their arms in front of black schools to intimidate the "other side" meeting there for a town hall? That cool with you?
I just want to know what infrastructure is off limits here!
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH
Of course not. There's a big difference between trying to politically disrupt the other side's organization, and trying to physically disrupt the other side's voting. The former is lawful while the latter is both illegal and utterly immoral.
| 121 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:28:39pm |
re: #120 Dark_Falcon
Of course not. There's a big difference between trying to politically disrupt the other side's organization, and trying to physically disrupt the other side's voting. The former is lawful while the latter is both illegal and utterly immoral.
Holy shit! You're talking about morality now??
| 122 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:29:55pm |
re: #118 Decatur Deb
Just shows how deep the plot goes. (A friend took me through the plant museum at Israeli Military Industries, and showed me a Sten Gun copy they had made in 1946. I said "There was no Israel or IMI in 1946." He just smiled.)
Even in 1946, the forerunner of the IDF (whose name's spelling escapes me) had underground workshops building Sten copies. The Sten was used because of its ease of construction.
| 123 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:31:35pm |
re: #122 Dark_Falcon
Palmach? Literally "underground" in that particular gun's case.
| 124 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:32:25pm |
oh no a brown in the white house, quick, destroy the country
| 125 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:32:44pm |
re: #115 Dark_Falcon
So Pepsi is both a "sellout to Islam" to one batch of crazies and and a "Zionist plot" to another batch of crazies. Nutcase haters will always find reasons to hate, regardless of the facts.
That's the irony that goes over Pam's head. She's become so much like the people she's against that the difference is negligible.
| 126 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:32:51pm |
re: #117 WindUpBird
Hey, so if a bunch of republican activists block some roads, is that cool with you?
if a bunch of republican activists obstruct black polling places, passing out handbills in hispanic polling places claiming that their voting day is after the election, is that cool with you?
If some republican activists show up and cross their arms in front of black schools to intimidate the "other side" meeting there for a town hall? That cool with you?
I just want to know what infrastructure is off limits here!
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH
Newsflash: George Wallace was a democrat.
Plus, your assertions are as likely to happen today as Mrs Clinton introducing her husband as "someone who I've always trusted, so you should as well."
| 127 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:33:23pm |
re: #126 rwmofo
Newsflash: George Wallace was a democrat.
Plus, your assertions are as likely to happen today as Mrs Clinton introducing her husband as "someone who I've always trusted, so you should as well."
aren't you cute, you probably think this was a really clever response :D
| 128 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:33:55pm |
re: #126 rwmofo
I'm going to upding this because it actually made me lol
| 129 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:34:03pm |
re: #121 recusancy
Holy shit! You're talking about morality now??
There are limits I recognize. If not only for moral reasons than for practical ones as well:
To escalate to physical obstruction and intimidation leads to violence and from there to civil unrest. A wise leader has a vested interest in avoiding civil unrest and will not try to retain power at the cost of provoking same. Rather he will (in the American case) work to maintain the system that allows him to walk away with his possessions and freedom intact, and try to regain power for his party later.
| 130 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:34:47pm |
| 131 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:35:02pm |
re: #126 rwmofo
Newsflash: George Wallace was a democrat.
You forgot to mention Robert Byrd! Shame on you.
| 132 |
Renaissance_Man Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:35:26pm |
re: #88 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. Winning in politics often takes other forms other than simply trying to win people over. Often, destroying parts of the other side's political infrastructure will prevent some of their voters from even showing up. It also reduces their ability to mobilize activists and campaign, further depressing their morale and ability to get out their vote.
So you believe that ensuring that people do not exercise their right to vote, their hard-won, politically sacred right to vote, is a perfectly valid political tactic, equal to presenting superior ideas and solutions? You believe, in other words, that if your idea does not win enough people over to win an election, it is acceptable to ensure that those who would not vote for your idea don't get to have their say? You really believe that?
Actually, no, you don't. Because you aren't a fascist. You are simply tribal, and want to see 'your guys' win and the 'other guys' lose, no matter whether it's politics or blog wars. And sometimes this leads to you defending unfortunate positions before you've thought them through.
| 133 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:36:25pm |
re: #129 Dark_Falcon
There are limits I recognize. If not only for moral reasons than for practical ones as well:
To escalate to physical obstruction and intimidation leads to violence and from there to civil unrest. A wise leader has a vested interest in avoiding civil unrest and will not try to retain power at the cost of provoking same. Rather he will (in the American case) work to maintain the system that allows him to walk away with his possessions and freedom intact, and try to regain power for his party later.
You have a very cold, almost psychopathic view of governance and humanity.
| 134 |
rwmofo Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:37:25pm |
re: #131 bratwurst
You forgot to mention Robert Byrd! Shame on you.
There's plenty left in the quiver.
| 135 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:38:54pm |
re: #132 Renaissance_Man
So you believe that ensuring that people do not exercise their right to vote, their hard-won, politically sacred right to vote, is a perfectly valid political tactic, equal to presenting superior ideas and solutions? You believe, in other words, that if your idea does not win enough people over to win an election, it is acceptable to ensure that those who would not vote for your idea don't get to have their say? You really believe that?
Actually, no, you don't. Because you aren't a fascist. You are simply tribal, and want to see 'your guys' win and the 'other guys' lose, no matter whether it's politics or blog wars. And sometimes this leads to you defending unfortunate positions before you've thought them through.
I'm actually going to bold that second paragraph and upding the post because you've got me pictured fairly well. I think my position is defensible in this case, but I've certainly placed myself on bad ground before.
| 136 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:40:53pm |
re: #133 recusancy
You have a very cold, almost psychopathic view of governance and humanity.
I'm both cold and quite warm. Both of these traits walk side by side in my head. That's part of the reason I'm something of a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde".
| 137 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:42:52pm |
re: #136 Dark_Falcon
I'm both cold and quite warm. Both of these traits walk side by side in my head. That's part of the reason I'm something of a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde".
If you're only warm to your tribal brethren that's not really warm at all.
| 138 |
Renaissance_Man Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:46:55pm |
re: #135 Dark_Falcon
I'm actually going to bold that second paragraph and upding the post because you've got me pictured fairly well. I think my position is defensible in this case, but I've certainly placed myself on bad ground before.
Your position in this case is not defensible. When you give every single citizen the right to vote, it is in the public interest that as many of those citizens exercise that right as possible. It improves a governing mandate, it should improve the quality of governance, and it is fundamentally democratic. Your position that it is entirely acceptable to prevent citizens from exercising that right for no other reason than they are unlikely to vote for you is not democratic. It is fascist, and is the most fascist position I've seen you take on this forum.
You're only taking it because you want to agree on some level with the disruption of ACORN, which is something people on what you think is 'your side' agree with. Once you think it through, I have no doubt you'll see how wrong it is.
| 139 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:52:07pm |
re: #138 Renaissance_Man
Your position in this case is not defensible. When you give every single citizen the right to vote, it is in the public interest that as many of those citizens exercise that right as possible. It improves a governing mandate, it should improve the quality of governance, and it is fundamentally democratic. Your position that it is entirely acceptable to prevent citizens from exercising that right for no other reason than they are unlikely to vote for you is not democratic. It is fascist, and is the most fascist position I've seen you take on this forum.
You're only taking it because you want to agree on some level with the disruption of ACORN, which is something people on what you think is 'your side' agree with. Once you think it through, I have no doubt you'll see how wrong it is.
I've not discussed preventing people from voting. Disrupting organization keeps those organizations from "firing up" their voters, but does not prevent those voters from reading the news, deciding whom to support and then going out to vote. I've never favored something that would actually prevent people legally entitled to vote from either registering to vote or actually voting, nor will I favor such a thing.
At this point, I'm going to log off for a time and go home. I'll be back in a bit.
| 140 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:53:28pm |
re: #139 Dark_Falcon
so you don't want to disrupt VOTERS, you just want to disrupt their advocates who have the resources to protect them.
isn't that sort of the same thing?
| 141 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jan 2, 2011 2:59:59pm |
re: #111 Dark_Falcon
But ACORN was not simply conventionally liberal, and it consistently worked towards statist ends.
Wait, you're attacking other people for being statist now? The person who defended the Pat Tillman coverup, who is willing to forgo condemning others if they torture our troops because our need for information is so great is calling ACORN statist. That's rich.
| 142 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 3:02:09pm |
re: #133 recusancy
You have a very cold, almost psychopathic view of governance and humanity.
It's not psychopathic, it's more just a symptom of giving up. it's cold, not because it's psycho. just because he doesn't care. Most people don't care! Most people have given up. ironic that DF is the dude who gave me a lot of crap for bringing up the term tribalist. When he's probably the most shining and pure example of blind tribalism who still posts on this blog. Which is uncommon here, but common in the US. it's the state of affairs of the USA.
it's the reason I dislike tribal politics. because it's not about people, it's about sides. Its as mindless as football riots, as guys yelling at an NFL game. Politics as a dumb game. Those who gave up, and reduced it to mindless tribalism. because they can't muster the effort to push back against the thing they were sold, the thing they were swallowed, the lives that hey were told the lead. They can't push back against the strong personalities around them, so they fall in line and join the tribe.
When what we should be treating politics as, is what it actually is, philosophies about organizing society. But that's hard, because thinking is hard for most people. Reasoning out a coherent philosophy of governance takes valuable energy that they'd rather spend elsewhere, on easy entertainment, easy outrages, rooting for their football team in suits in congress. Paranoia. ACORN this, Muslim that. Shorthand for being afraid and cowed into just being another drone, just another greyface. Because they've given up on critical thinking.
| 143 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 3:06:08pm |
hoist a glass to the quarterback! To the lineman! To the special teams! The valuable metaphors for reducing politics to inhuman mindless gamesmanship surrounded by applauding fans
| 144 |
Linden Arden Sun, Jan 2, 2011 3:13:51pm |
Miss your daily fix of Beckerhead stupidity?
Here is a youtube wherein Beck provides "proof" that wandering Israelites built the Native American burial mounds and left a kind of Rosetta Stone behind that was written in Hebrew but scientists missed that part because they were holding it upside down while examining it.
This all fits in nicely with Mormon CT crap, btw.
The guy is one of the best comedians on the old tube device.
| 145 |
What, me worry? Sun, Jan 2, 2011 3:14:57pm |
re: #117 WindUpBird
There's quite a good reason "to go to black" actually because it's happened often in Florida.
This 2002 article has the following heading:
Jeb Bush's secret weapon - 94,000 people on a voter "purge" list -- half of them African-American -- continue to be banned from voting in Florida, even though the state knows the list is wildly inaccurate.
Which also discusses voter fraud in Miami's mayoral election where dead people voted.
And of course, that would bring us to the 2000 election. You have to buy that article, but it states that blacks were so disenfranchised (votes weren't counted in their districts) that if the rejection rates would have been equal to whites, there would have been 50,000 more votes by black voters.
That article, btw, was submitted to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights who made their findings here:
- This disenfranchisement of Florida voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of African Americans. Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected in the November 2000 election.[5]
- Poorer counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to use voting systems with higher spoilage rates than more affluent counties with significant white populations. For example, in Gadsden County, the only county in the state with an African American majority, approximately one in eight voters was disenfranchised. In Leon County, on the other hand, which is home to the prosperous state capital and two state universities, fewer than two votes in 1,000 were not counted. In Florida, of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of disqualified ballots, 83 of them are majority-black precincts.
Blacks are primarily Democrats, of course.
So no, Windy, you're not crazy (I mean, not in a bad way :>)
| 146 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Jan 2, 2011 3:18:51pm |
re: #10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Then that majority wasn't paying attention. They were obstructionist assholes for two years and got rewarded for it with 60 seats in the House. Would you change course? Or would you up the ante?
| 147 |
Eclectic Infidel Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:10:42pm |
Free market approach to health care.
GOP Translator: Change nothing. Without health insurance? Screw you.
| 148 |
Romantic Heretic Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:13:31pm |
| 149 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:27:36pm |
re: #145 marjoriemoon
So no, Windy, you're not crazy (I mean, not in a bad way :>)
I'm a little eccentric *_*
| 150 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:27:52pm |
| 151 |
Romantic Heretic Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:49:37pm |
re: #150 WindUpBird
currently drinking Pyramid Snow Cap. Winter ales FTW
I'm a Mill Street Brewery fan myself. Their Tankhouse Ale is to die for.
| 152 |
tradewind Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:59:51pm |
re: #34 WindUpBird
Magical balance fairy is suffering from exhaustion due to blog overuse and requires strict bed rest.
| 153 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 2, 2011 5:01:18pm |
Yeah. Because shutting the government down worked so well the last time.
Idiots.
| 154 |
Ben G. Hazi Sun, Jan 2, 2011 5:24:16pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
SFZ, those partisan reason would have been enough for any conservative to atack. When you have a big chance to disrupt the other side's political infrastructure, you have to take it. Most of my sources on ACORN's socialism are in print and not accessible to me at this moment (I'm at my parent's house, having helped take down their Christmas tree), but here's an article on ACORN's actions of a few years ago:
D_F, I strongly disagree with this "ends justify the means" stance...it ain't right, no matter the target. While I may not have cared for some of the principles the ACORN people stood for, the organization needed to have been dealt with legally and aboveboard, something that O'Keefe, Breitbart, and the spineless Congress that pulled their funding didn't do.
It was dirty pool and you know it...
| 155 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 5:26:32pm |
re: #152 tradewind
Magical balance fairy is suffering from exhaustion due to blog overuse and requires strict bed rest.
when people decide to start presenting their arguments like adults, maybe it won't have to be invoked :)
| 156 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 2, 2011 5:40:08pm |
re: #103 Amory Blaine
I'm all for these nutjobs pushing their agenda. The sooner and harder the better. I want to see their full ideology fail spectacularly and callously.
Same here. I want to see the Republicans cause the US to default. That will send the GOP into political ruin for decades. It would serve them right.
| 157 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:12:57pm |
re: #156 Lidane
Same here. I want to see the Republicans cause the US to default. That will send the GOP into political ruin for decades. It would serve them right.
Amazing that the people who say that they want to destroy government actually are a destructive force, just like they promised they'd be ;-)
Like electing an arsonist fire chief
| 158 |
sagehen Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:14:13pm |
re: #76 rwmofo
If you didn't watch this, take a few minutes just to get a feel for Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. In addition to her normal sleight of hand, she got the last word and claimed that "President Obama created more jobs last year than the total jobs combined created under eight years of the Bush administration."
I guess "Bush lied" about the low unemployment rate during his presidency - or something.
Bush lost jobs in his first term. Net.
In his second term, there was modest job growth for a few years, but most of that was wiped out in 2008.
| 159 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:22:25pm |
re: #158 sagehen
pesky facts, always getting in the way of the el Rushbo cheat sheet
| 160 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 2, 2011 7:08:15pm |
re: #157 WindUpBird
"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
| 161 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 7:41:30pm |
re: #155 WindUpBird
when people decide to start presenting their arguments like adults, maybe it won't have to be invoked :)
Here's my arguments, I presented them, fully written out it:
re: #33 re: #43 re: #51 reine.de.tout
Here's your argument:
re: #44 WindUpBird
I'll be over in the corner drinking with Tinkerbell. She says to stop calling her, she doesn't balance anything
| 162 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 2, 2011 7:49:33pm |
re: #161 reine.de.tout
And notice - there are no R or D labels. The points I made stand regardless of political affiliation
| 164 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Jan 2, 2011 8:21:34pm |
re: #156 Lidane
No. They will get voted out of power and then voted back into power 4 years later in an even more virulent form because nobody will remember what they did and what happened as a result.
| 165 |
Tigger2 Sun, Jan 2, 2011 10:25:46pm |
I know one thing, if this Gov shutdown the GOP is so fixated on causes me to miss one disability check that is keeping me alive.
I will not only not vote conservative again but I will vote so far left that voting for a communist wouldn't be out of the question.
| 166 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 11:39:23pm |
re: #3 000G
It's like they are on a Cassandra trip, trying to build a self-fulfilling prophecy of government always having to fail.
This is called "starving the beast" and it's pretty much what the GOP does now. Thanks, Norquist!
| 167 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 11:47:05pm |
re: #161 reine.de.tout
Here's my arguments, I presented them, fully written out it:
re: #33 re: #43 re: #51 reine.de.toutHere's your argument:
re: #44 WindUpBird
wow, those have nothing to do with each other, or with my original snark.
Also, comedy isn't an argument. Wasn't meant to be. It's comedy. i'm making fun of the fact we're talking about a shutdown, and we had at least a shot at it remaining a discussion about the nature of government shutdowns, and instead? Nope. It went right to the same only stuff you see everywhere else.
SHUTDOWNSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWNSHUTDOWN
| 168 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Jan 2, 2011 11:47:24pm |
re: #167 WindUpBird
my god the words escaped the box
| 169 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 3, 2011 8:53:33am |
FY 1977, 10 days
FY 1978 - 12 days, 8 days, then 8 days
FY 1979 - 17 days
FY 1980 - 11 dys
FY 1982 - 2 days
FY 1983 - day, then 3 days
FY 1984 - 3 days
FY 1985 - 2 days, then 1 day
FY 1987 - 1 day
FY 1988 - 1 day
FY 1991 - 3 days
FY 1996 - 5 days, then 21 days
| 170 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jan 3, 2011 9:00:08am |
re: #169 reine.de.tout
FY 1977, 10 days
FY 1978 - 12 days, 8 days, then 8 days
FY 1979 - 17 days
FY 1980 - 11 dys
FY 1982 - 2 days
FY 1983 - day, then 3 days
FY 1984 - 3 days
FY 1985 - 2 days, then 1 day
FY 1987 - 1 day
FY 1988 - 1 day
FY 1991 - 3 days
FY 1996 - 5 days, then 21 days
That looks like a good count, but some of these were more "shutdown" than others. Some of the short ones were over before word made it down to the worker bees. In a couple cases, the middle of the chain of command didn't know what a shutdown entailed. The more serious ones sent us home for a few days, then made up the pay--a free holiday in the end. When I was stationed overseas, I was an "Emergency Essential Civilian", and the shutdown rules didn't apply. Over the entire course of my Fed service shutdowns only meant that planning beyond a few weeks was FUBAHR.
| 171 |
garhighway Mon, Jan 3, 2011 9:03:17am |
re: #165 Tigger2
I know one thing, if this Gov shutdown the GOP is so fixated on causes me to miss one disability check that is keeping me alive.
I will not only not vote conservative again but I will vote so far left that voting for a communist wouldn't be out of the question.
Know one more thing: that the people who want to shut down the govt don't care whether you live or die. Unless you are a top 3% income person, then they will move heaven and earth for you.
| 172 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 3, 2011 9:09:50am |
re: #170 Decatur Deb
That looks like a good count, but some of these were more "shutdown" than others. Some of the short ones were over before word made it down to the worker bees. In a couple cases, the middle of the chain of command didn't know what a shutdown entailed. The more serious ones sent us home for a few days, then made up the pay--a free holiday in the end. When I was stationed overseas, I was an "Emergency Essential Civilian", and the shutdown rules didn't apply. Over the entire course of my Fed service shutdowns only meant that planning beyond a few weeks was FUBAHR.
Those were taken from a report which lists the "rules" governing a shut-down, who has to report, etc.
I think it's a STUPID thing to do, to "shut down" the government, it happens at the state level, as well, and the only people who suffer are the employees who have to make arrangements with their banks to cover their bills, or whatever, until pay catches up. At any rate, these rules require that 'essential" services continue to be provided, meaning that those who are 'essential' don't even get the "holiday" you mentioned. In our state, when it happened, we just kept working, and I thanked the powers that be for my credit union, much friendlier to me as to working things out 'til paychecks caught up.
| 173 |
Fortitudine Mon, Jan 3, 2011 5:21:55pm |
The problem with a government shutdown is that the people who pay aren't those in any way, shape or form responsible for how the government is run.
The people who got hurt when Gingrich tried this the last time were people like my sister (nurse at a VA hospital) who almost lost her car and her credit rating. She has steadfastly refused to vote for a single Republican candidate since that day.
| 174 |
ClaudeMonet Mon, Jan 3, 2011 7:53:08pm |
re: #60 recusancy
Coors = beer
Coors alleges itself to be beer. It's good for giving one's kidneys some exercise and not much else.
re: #109 Killgore Trout
So in addition to liking the taste of Pepsi for almost all of my 55 years, I've been contributing to a Zionist plot? Oh goody!!
re: #113 bratwurst
Never mind that Pepsi has been around 45 years longer than Israel.
Never confuse an issue by bringing up facts.
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