Limbaugh: Reading the Constitution in House is ‘An Exorcism’

Wingnuts • Views: 20,687

For one of their first acts, Republicans are going to read the entire Constitution on the floor of the House of Representatives. Now, I have nothing but respect for the US Constitution, as anyone who’s read my blog surely knows.

But come on. This is a cheap stunt for the Tea Party base, and it achieves nothing except to serve as an excellent indicator of how the GOP House is going to operate. Time-wasting nonsense will reign.

Rush Limbaugh, as usual, takes the rhetoric right to where the base lives, complaining about being accused of fetishizing the Constitution even as he compares reading it to an “exorcism.” (And a lot of his listeners will take this quite literally, because they also believe in exorcism.)

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360 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:20:22pm

if it were truly an exorcism it would get rid of the demons plaguing the current GOP.

2 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:20:28pm

Bobby Jindal will cream his jeans

3 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:21:44pm

Make sure to read that 14th amendment loud and clear, guys.

4 JeffM70  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:21:48pm

I wonder if they’ll exorcise the parts they don’t like.

5 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:23:04pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Make sure to read that 14th amendment loud and clear, guys.

I’m thinking they’ll skip a bit.

6 allegro  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:24:14pm

I’m wondering about the parts that talk about only males getting to vote and that 3/5 of a person thing.

7 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:24:27pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Make sure to read that 14th amendment loud and clear, guys.

One man’s “loud and clear” is another woman’s “What’s that sonny?”

8 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:24:39pm

This is just the warm up act. I’m waiting for them to cite specific authority, because thats where the real comedy is going to be.

9 JeffM70  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:24:56pm

They should have Michelle Bachman read the part about the Census.

10 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:25:43pm

re: #6 allegro

I’m wondering about the parts that talk about only males getting to vote and that 3/5 of a person thing.

It’s all part of the text, and the heritage.

I dunno. I sort of like the idea. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to open every session of Congress like that. People could be honored with sections, like getting called up for an aliyah.

Now: are Democrats going to be allowed to help with the reading?

11 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:26:32pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Make sure to read that 14th amendment loud and clear, guys.

and the 2nd amendment….shout it brother!

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:26:50pm

Tea Partier: “wait a durn minute. That wasn’t mah constitution - I didn’t hear the word ‘God’ even oncet!”

13 allegro  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:27:11pm

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

like getting called up for an aliyah.

Please forgive my ignorance. What is that? (Sounds like a good thing.)

14 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:27:26pm

re: #11 albusteve

Nobody’s proposed repealing or modifying the 2nd amendment recently.

The 14th, on the other hand, has come under some attack.

Differences are nifty.

15 allegro  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:27:59pm

re: #14 Obdicut

Haven’t they had some issues with the 10th and 17th as well recently?

16 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:28:17pm

re: #12 Charles

Tea Partier: “wait a durn minute. That wasn’t mah constitution - I didn’t hear the word ‘God’ even oncet!”

They’re going to pop a rage boner over article 6.

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:28:44pm

re: #11 albusteve

and the 2nd amendment…shout it brother!

As always, I am a big believer in the Third.

18 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:28:45pm

re: #15 allegro

Haven’t they had some issues with the 10th and 17th as well recently?

They’re very conflicted on the 10th. And yeah, the 17th, for whatever bizarre reason, has also come under attack.

19 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:30:41pm

re: #14 Obdicut

Nobody’s proposed repealing or modifying the 2nd amendment recently.

The 14th, on the other hand, has come under some attack.

Differences are nifty.

bah…whatever…have you forgotten the SC ruling just last year over the DC gun laws…shout it sister!

20 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:31:15pm

re: #18 Obdicut

They’re very conflicted on the 10th. And yeah, the 17th, for whatever bizarre reason, has also come under attack.

They got pissy when people they didn’t like got made Senators by appointment or special election.

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:31:21pm

re: #13 allegro

Please forgive my ignorance. What is that? (Sounds like a good thing.)

An aliyah is when someone is called up to the Torah to either read part of the Torah portion of the week, or, more commonly, to say the blessings for the reading, and then have a trained reader chant the portion.

It’s an honor. At a bar or bat mitzvah, often relatives are given the aliyot (plural). People are given them in honor of special events.

(In a different sense of the word, ‘to make aliyah’ is to move to Israel to live.)

22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:32:29pm

OT but this is a really cool story

23 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:32:57pm

re: #19 albusteve

I don’t think you’re getting me. The DC gun ban was not an attempt to alter or remove the 2nd amendment. It has been seriously, actually proposed that we alter the 14th amendment to remove birthright citizenship, and that we get rid of the 17th amendment.

I have no problems with the 2nd amendment being read. I’m pointing out, however, that unlike the 14th, nobody has proposed changing the 2nd amendment recently.

24 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:33:53pm

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s all part of the text, and the heritage.

I dunno. I sort of like the idea. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to open every session of Congress like that. People could be honored with sections, like getting called up for an aliyah.

Now: are Democrats going to be allowed to help with the reading?

I like the idea.

Keep adding a link to the chain- not to mention, it’s humbling to be able to read from a document that has improved and evolved and has change the world for the better.

25 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:33:57pm

re: #23 Obdicut

I don’t think you’re getting me. The DC gun ban was not an attempt to alter or remove the 2nd amendment. It has been seriously, actually proposed that we alter the 14th amendment to remove birthright citizenship, and that we get rid of the 17th amendment.

I have no problems with the 2nd amendment being read. I’m pointing out, however, that unlike the 14th, nobody has proposed changing the 2nd amendment recently.

I’m getting you loud and clear….maybe your not getting me, but keep at it if you like

26 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:35:58pm

re: #24 researchok

I like the idea.

Keep adding a link to the chain- not to mention, it’s humbling to be able to read from a document that has improved and evolved and has change the world for the better.

I have no problem with the idea, as long as it doesn’t turn into an agenda circus, which it probably would…I’m not fond of too many of these dopey clowns

27 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:36:54pm

re: #25 albusteve

I’m just enjoying the irony of the GOP insisting on reading the Constitution when the only people who have been suggesting changing the Constitution recently have been the GOP.

Maybe they’re going to be redlining it while they read it.

28 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:37:49pm

re: #27 Obdicut

I’m just enjoying the irony of the GOP insisting on reading the Constitution when the only people who have been suggesting changing the Constitution recently have been the GOP.

Maybe they’re going to be redlining it while they read it.

look on the lighter side…and it’s really no big deal

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:38:07pm

re: #27 Obdicut

I’m just enjoying the irony of the GOP insisting on reading the Constitution when the only people who have been suggesting changing the Constitution recently have been the GOP.

Maybe they’re going to be redlining it while they read it.

I have a terrible image of Michelle Bachmann doing exactly that.

30 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:38:23pm

re: #26 albusteve

I have no problem with the idea, as long as it doesn’t turn into an agenda circus, which it probably would…I’m not fond of too many of these dopey clowns

I dunno- a bi partisan reading of the document with no speeches or preambles sounds like a good thing to me.

I’ll bet it would inspire a lot of kids and that’s a good thing.

31 allegro  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:38:57pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Maybe they’re going to be redlining it while they read it.

The next Conservopedia project?

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:39:30pm

re: #30 researchok

I dunno- a bi partisan reading of the document with no speeches or preambles sounds like a good thing to me.

I’ll bet it would inspire a lot of kids and that’s a good thing.

It would be great theater. I dunno. I like it. But only as a bipartisan exercise that’s about the text, not the personalities.

33 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:39:54pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a terrible image of Michelle Bachmann doing exactly that.

Funny, the first thing that came to mind when you said that was Madeline Kahn “No, no, YES, no, no, no, no YES!”

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:39:55pm

re: #31 allegro

The next Conservopedia project?

Look, they did the BIBLE. I wouldn’t put it past them.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:40:22pm

BBIAB. Must go fax something.

36 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:41:51pm

I’ll give the republicans a short limited time to whip up some Obamacare shit, vote on it and get it on the books if they want….beyond that they better get their ass in gear….it would hardly take much to outdo the last couple of sessions as far as progress goes….I only care about results, not all the hyper crap beforehand…bigots and all, show us some goddamned governing

37 JeffM70  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:41:55pm

It amazes me how in their effort to sanctify the Founding Fathers that they have no real clue as to how divided they were on how the government should be created and what the Constitution should or should not include. They act as if there was unanimous agreement.

38 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:41:57pm

re: #31 allegro

The next Conservopedia project?

Does that mean that the father of our country is going to become Stephen Colbert?

39 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:42:24pm

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

It would be great theater. I dunno. I like it. But only as a bipartisan exercise that’s about the text, not the personalities.

I agree.

Open each session with a reading. Give each congressperson a chance to read a line or two.

40 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:42:53pm

re: #30 researchok

I dunno- a bi partisan reading of the document with no speeches or preambles sounds like a good thing to me.

I’ll bet it would inspire a lot of kids and that’s a good thing.

yes, big if tho….I don’t trust them, so we’ll see how they do it

41 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:43:05pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a terrible image of Michelle Bachmann doing exactly that.

She’s thinking of running for president, don’ cha know.[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

42 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:45:43pm

re: #41 prairiefire

She’s thinking of running for president, don’ cha know.[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

Yeah, she also thinks the Charge of the Light Brigade was a good thing.

43 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:47:09pm

re: #41 prairiefire

lol

44 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:48:11pm

One good thing about reading the Constitution — if any Tea Partiers actually watched, it was probably the first time they were exposed to the real thing.

45 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:48:15pm

re: #41 prairiefire

She’s thinking of running for president, don’ cha know.[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

I see a cat-fight with Palin if that happens. There’s only room for one cougar on that podium.

46 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:50:09pm

On the reading of the Constitution, I can’t say I’m surprised they’re doing this.

Remember these people are followers of the Blessed St. Reagan who said, “Government isn’t the solution to the problem, it is the problem.”

So these people can’t, literally can’t, do anything useful or wise while they hold office. If they did so they would be proving untrue the words of the Blessed Saint.

Thus their time in office will consist entirely of propaganda moments like this. As Paul Krugman once noted when commenting on a column in the Wall Street Journal, “Government can’t do anything good because then people wouldn’t understand that government is bad.”

47 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:50:15pm

re: #44 Charles

One good thing about reading the Constitution — if any Tea Partiers actually watched, it was probably the first time they were exposed to the real thing.

Unless, of course, they watched Schoolhouse Rock

Youtube Video
48 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:50:20pm

re: #44 Charles

One good thing about reading the Constitution — if any Tea Partiers actually watched, it was probably the first time they were exposed to the real thing.

They won’t listen.

They really don’t want to know what is in the Constitution.
/

49 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:50:30pm

re: #44 Charles

One good thing about reading the Constitution — if any Tea Partiers actually watched, it was probably the first time they were exposed to the real thing.

It will be Scott Brown all over again.

“WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?”

50 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:50:42pm

Dennis Kuchinich carries a pocket constitution with him everywhere he goes. How many of these guys do that?

51 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:50:42pm

re: #45 darthstar

I see a cat-fight with Palin if that happens. There’s only room for one cougar on that podium.


Well me-OWE!

52 allegro  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:51:06pm

re: #45 darthstar

I see a cat-fight with Palin if that happens. There’s only room for one cougar Mama Grizzly on that podium.

Wait… Bryan Fisher wants all grizzlies shot on account of we’ve pissed off God… or something. Is there a connection?

53 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:51:19pm

re: #51 jamesfirecat

Well me-OWE!

Hot oil debates in the primary?

54 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:52:05pm

re: #50 Conservative Moonbat

Dennis Kuchinich carries a pocket constitution with him everywhere he goes. How many of these guys do that?

Kucinich has also read it. How many of the teabagger Reps have done that?

55 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:52:13pm

re: #53 darthstar

Hot oil debates in the primary?

Kucinich versus Gravel?

56 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:52:33pm

re: #54 darthstar

Kucinich has also read it. How many of the teabagger Reps have done that?

God tells them the important parts.

57 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:53:56pm

Symbolism Over Substance.

58 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:53:57pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kucinich versus Gravel?

Seek help. //

59 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:55:27pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

God tells them the important parts.

Leviticus is my favorite amendment.

60 Sionainn  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:55:40pm

re: #47 darthstar

Unless, of course, they watched Schoolhouse Rock


[Video]

I actually had a history test in college where we had to write the whole Preamble. Though it had been a lot of years since I had last heard the School House Rock version, it was catchy enough that I still remembered it.

61 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:57:16pm

Never mind an exorcism. After the first session of the Republicans in charge it’s going to need an enema.

62 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:57:46pm

GUACAMOLE

63 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:58:03pm

re: #60 Sionainn

I actually had a history test in college where we had to write the whole Preamble. Though it had been a lot of years since I had last heard the School House Rock version, it was catchy enough that I still remembered it.

I passed my college Chemistry Lab Finals because I rewrote the lyrics of Motorhead’s “Voices in the Sky” to the procedures we needed to use and sang it to myself during the lab.

64 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:58:32pm

All members of congress should be given a copy of the Bible, like they were from 1904 until 1957.However, they may not like the editing.

65 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:59:21pm

re: #60 Sionainn

I actually had a history test in college where we had to write the whole Preamble. Though it had been a lot of years since I had last heard the School House Rock version, it was catchy enough that I still remembered it.

Projecting much?

66 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:59:29pm

re: #62 WindUpBird

GUACAMOLE

Little known fact: “Guacamole” occurs in the constitution the exact same number of times as “Jesus,” “God,” and “Beetlejuice” combined.

67 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:59:43pm

Yeah Rush because only Democrats and liberals interpret the Constitution for ideological reasons. I mean it was Democrats that pushed for a constitutional ban on gay marriage. Oh wait, it was Republicans and a Republican administration that pushed that. And I bet you didn’t object to that at all. Seriously, what a crock of shit. People like Limbaugh have this delusion that only their side understands the Constitution.

68 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 12:59:53pm

re: #41 prairiefire

She’s thinking of running for president, don’ cha know.[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

PLEASE RUN PLEASE RUN PLEASE RUN

Imagine her in a primary, hiding in the bushes, spying on her opponents, eyes all googly with the lord’s spirit

69 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:01:13pm

Of course, now I have that song stuck in my head;

Youtube Video
70 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:01:59pm

re: #23 Obdicut
Reading the constitution is a populist play. A waste of time.

re the 2nd-What is changing is how it’s applied. Just for fun, imagine an intact 2nd amendment, but a 14 day “cooling off” period before you could receive your printer or out your website online. Or if they could take your means to print or transmit your opinions away after you break a law.

The 2nd has been terribly encroached upon via nonsense regulations on top of the sensible regulations. As clearly shown in DC.

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:02:33pm

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Yeah Rush because only Democrats and liberals interpret the Constitution for ideological reasons. I mean it was Democrats that pushed for a constitutional ban on gay marriage. Oh wait, it was Republicans and a Republican administration that pushed that. And I bet you didn’t object to that at all. Seriously, what a crock of shit. People like Limbaugh have this delusion that only their side understands the Constitution.

Limbaugh doesn’t have this delusion, Limbaugh is a smart man manipulating dumb people with dumb rhetoric, I don’t think Rush believes most of what he says, he’s too good a broadcaster not to be clear eyed and deliberate about what he’s talking about

Remember, the Rush demographic isn’t internet savvy! The Rush demo thinks talk radio IS the news

72 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:03:06pm

re: #68 WindUpBird

PLEASE RUN PLEASE RUN PLEASE RUN

Imagine her in a primary, hiding in the bushes, spying on her opponents, eyes all googly with the lord’s spirit

The primaries are going to be a freakshow but I think the GOP insiders are working overtime to rollback the crazy of their more unelectable fringe candidates. Palin’s star has almost completely fallen already. They’re going to try to get a moderate nominated. They might be able to do it but they have a lot of work to do.

73 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:03:11pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well…maybe one voice…

Youtube Video
74 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:03:16pm

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Projecting much?

LOLOL
re: #71 WindUpBird

Limbaugh doesn’t have this delusion, Limbaugh is a smart man manipulating dumb people with dumb rhetoric, I don’t think Rush believes most of what he says, he’s too good a broadcaster not to be clear eyed and deliberate about what he’s talking about

Remember, the Rush demographic isn’t internet savvy! The Rush demo thinks talk radio IS the news


Lots of truth in that.

75 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:03:27pm

re: #71 WindUpBird


I kinda disagree. I think he’s so fucked up from oxycontin that he does believe whatever crazy shit comes flying out of his redneck mouth.

76 krypto  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:04:14pm

It sounds similar to what was done by a local radio station in Rochester, NY decades ago, where they spent days having people read the entire Bible aloud continuously, from cover to cover, on the air. The religious attitude behind it is probably similar.

And the joke is that just as people usually don’t know all that much about what’s really in the Bible, tea partiers who pretend to worship the Constitution don’t seem to have much of an idea what’s in it, or how much of what’s in it they oppose.

77 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:04:45pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

The primaries are going to be a freakshow but I think the GOP insiders are working overtime to rollback the crazy of their more unelectable fringe candidates. Palin’s star has almost completely fallen already. They’re going to try to get a moderate nominated. They might be able to do it but they have a lot of work to do.

Oh I know it, they can’t afford to have the primary become a freakshow

Basically, the GOP trying to push back against the so-con base they themselves empowered, will be a fascinating little struggle

78 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:05:21pm

Buyers Remorse for Nevada Republicans

If Nevada Republicans could do it all over again….they wouldn’t, when it comes to nominating Sharron Angle. 68% of GOP voters in the state say they wish the party had nominated somebody different than Angle to run against Harry Reid last year while only 27% are still content for her to have been the candidate.
79 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:05:46pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

I kinda disagree. I think he’s so fucked up from oxycontin that he does believe whatever crazy shit comes flying out of his redneck mouth.

I think WUB has a point.

Rush is big business- really big.

He won’t jeopardize that by being out of control.

Certainly the people around him won’t allow it- they have too much to lose.

80 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:05:55pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Buyers Remorse for Nevada Republicans

That number would be even higher if she won.

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:05:59pm

re: #76 krypto

It sounds similar to what was done by a local radio station in Rochester, NY decades ago, where they spent days having people read the entire Bible aloud continuously, from cover to cover, on the air. The religious attitude behind it is probably similar.

And the joke is that just as people usually don’t know all that much about what’s really in the Bible, tea partiers who pretend to worship the Constitution don’t seem to have much of an idea what’s in it, or how much of what’s in it they oppose.

were they changing the station to a religious format? Days-long stunts like a countdown from ten thousand or playing the same song all weekend, or reading the bible on air, are generally used when you’re changing station formats drastically, say from amusic to sports, or sports to talk

82 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:06:05pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

oops, missing link….

Buyers Remorse for Nevada Republicans

If Nevada Republicans could do it all over again…they wouldn’t, when it comes to nominating Sharron Angle. 68% of GOP voters in the state say they wish the party had nominated somebody different than Angle to run against Harry Reid last year while only 27% are still content for her to have been the candidate.

83 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:06:27pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

I kinda disagree. I think he’s so fucked up from oxycontin that he does believe whatever crazy shit comes flying out of his redneck mouth.

The irony was that until last year, he had been a New Yorker for nearly 2 decades.

84 Sionainn  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:06:36pm

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Projecting much?

That made no sense whatsoever.

85 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:06:39pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Buyers Remorse for Nevada Republicans

Broken link.

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:06:54pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, she also thinks the Charge of the Light Brigade was a good thing.

I remember that.

I’m still not sure what she was thinking, but I think more Americans learned that poem in school than actually know what it’s about.

One of my students last year memorized it as a class assignment.

87 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:07:48pm

re: #71 WindUpBird

Limbaugh doesn’t have this delusion, Limbaugh is a smart man manipulating dumb people with dumb rhetoric, I don’t think Rush believes most of what he says, he’s too good a broadcaster not to be clear eyed and deliberate about what he’s talking about

Remember, the Rush demographic isn’t internet savvy! The Rush demo thinks talk radio IS the news

Yeah WUB you’re right about that. He can’t be this stupid and ignorant of what Democrats and liberals actually believe. I think he knows that he’s at his most popular when Democrats are in office. He needs Obama to feed his idiotic fan base who hang on to every word he says.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:08:05pm

re: #50 Conservative Moonbat

Dennis Kuchinich carries a pocket constitution with him everywhere he goes. How many of these guys do that?

Well, they were giving them out for a while at the TPer events. Someone must have kept theirs.

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:08:44pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

I kinda disagree. I think he’s so fucked up from oxycontin that he does believe whatever crazy shit comes flying out of his redneck mouth.

oh I think he’s fucked up! But I don’t think he’s delusional. More like rock-star fucked up. A guy who’s just medicating with opiates because he’s a wreck, obviously lonely despite his riches, and doesn’t seem to have any idea of what intimacy is (armchair psych weee)

90 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:09:02pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember that.

I’m still not sure what she was thinking, but I think more Americans learned that poem in school than actually know what it’s about.

One of my students last year memorized it as a class assignment.

I can remember my father reading it to me from a book we had that was part of an old book series. Can’t remember the name of the series but the book was “Golden hours with the poets” we had all the volumes of the series but that one got lost somehow which really sucked, it was printed in the early 1900’s.

91 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:09:20pm

re: #83 Surabaya Stew


He’s still from Missuruh

92 garhighway  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:09:37pm

When they get to the second amendment, I hope they don’t leave out the “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” part. The Roberts Court certainly forgot about that part.

93 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:09:43pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember that.

I’m still not sure what she was thinking, but I think more Americans learned that poem in school than actually know what it’s about.

One of my students last year memorized it as a class assignment.

I’m thinking she is a bonehead who made a reference to something she had no clue about. Light Brigage, well Light means good, so it must be a good thing, right?

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:10:07pm

re: #64 Surabaya Stew

All members of congress should be given a copy of the Bible, like they were from 1904 until 1957.However, they may not like the editing.

Jefferson’s angle on this is interesting compared to that of Franklin, who commented that he wasn’t sure about Jesus’s divinity, but figured that people believing him divine might get them to listen to the good moral stuff.

95 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:10:35pm

re: #90 Dreggas

I can remember my father reading it to me from a book we had that was part of an old book series. Can’t remember the name of the series but the book was “Golden hours with the poets” we had all the volumes of the series but that one got lost somehow which really sucked, it was printed in the early 1900’s.

I have the soul of a poet.

I have it bound into a paperweight on my desk.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:10:40pm

re: #66 darthstar

Little known fact: “Guacamole” occurs in the constitution the exact same number of times as “Jesus,” “God,” and “Beetlejuice” combined.

Clearly, then. guacamole was very important to the Founding Fathers. We should eat more of it.

97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:12:09pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

Yeah WUB you’re right about that. He can’t be this stupid and ignorant of what Democrats and liberals actually believe. I think he knows that he’s at his most popular when Democrats are in office. He needs Obama to feed his idiotic fan base who hang on to every word he says.

His career was MADE by Bill Clinton, so yeah!

Rush Limbaugh, if he’s looking at his bottom line, he’s probably praying inside for an Obama victory in 2012. It simply makes for more compelling angry radio if the Republicans are not running the show and he can rail about it, framed as an underdog

Remember briefly in 2006 when Limbaugh was bitching about carrying water for Republicans? That was probably the real guy, not the act right there. because I’m sure he IS a republican, but I’m also sure he’s putting on a show. And the show sucks when you’re playing defense

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:12:26pm

re: #76 krypto

It sounds similar to what was done by a local radio station in Rochester, NY decades ago, where they spent days having people read the entire Bible aloud continuously, from cover to cover, on the air. The religious attitude behind it is probably similar.

And the joke is that just as people usually don’t know all that much about what’s really in the Bible, tea partiers who pretend to worship the Constitution don’t seem to have much of an idea what’s in it, or how much of what’s in it they oppose.

I was once at a college event where they read The Divine Comedy, in Italian, cover to cover. It was very nice, although I don’t understand Italian. The readers dressed up in white robes and a laurel wreath, and stood on a milk crate to declaim.

99 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:12:28pm

re: #91 SpaceJesus

He’s still from Missuruh

From the “little Dixie” area.

100 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:13:25pm

re: #66 darthstar

Little known fact: “Guacamole” occurs in the constitution the exact same number of times as “Jesus,” “God,” and “Beetlejuice” combined.

are there any constitutional references to Linda Blair? :D

101 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:13:44pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

I was once at a college event where they read The Divine Comedy, in Italian, cover to cover. It was very nice, although I don’t understand Italian. The readers dressed up in white robes and a laurel wreath, and stood on a milk crate to declaim.

Are you sure you weren’t at a Residents concert?

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:14:06pm

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I have the soul of a poet.

I have it bound into a paperweight on my desk.

Like the Janeane Garofolo character who had her father’s skull in a bowling ball?

103 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:14:28pm

The thing about the Constitution is that everyone left and right uses it to suit their own agenda. Personally, I think the judicial philosophy of originalism is silly. For one, you can’t 224 years after the fact get in the minds of the founders intentions. You just can’t. Secondly, the Constitution itself has changed in those years. And as someone pointed out last night the Bill of Rights themselves were not part of the original Constitution. There was I remember learning in history a debate between those who wanted a bill of rights and those who did not. I believe Madison was the biggest proponent and Hamilton the opponent. And also even the “strict constructionists” of the time used loose interpretations for their own agenda. Jefferson and the Louisiana Purchase for instance was criticized as Jefferson’s loose interpretation. I’ll say it again but there really is no such thing as a true constructionist out there and if there is, the Tea Partiers and this new Republican majority Congress aren’t it. They’re partisan hacks like most uf us are.

104 Slap  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:14:30pm

re: #45 darthstar

I see a cat-fight with Palin if that happens. There’s only room for one cougar on that podium.

Dear Mr. Star:

As representatives for Helen Mirren, Lauren Hutton and the late Anne Francis, we advise you to cease and desist with your usage of the fine term “cougar” to describe polecats.

The consequences could be dire!

Sincerely,
YouKnowWhoWeAre GmBh

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:14:45pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Like the Janeane Garofolo character who had her father’s skull in a bowling ball?

hahah I love Mystery Men

“WHY DON’T YOU TELL ME?”

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:14:55pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Clearly, then. guacamole was very important to the Founding Fathers. We should eat more of it.

Really, what a tragedy. It occurs to me that probably none of the Founders got to eat guacamole. Or a chocolate bar. God, that was a deprived generation to have accomplished so much.

107 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:14:58pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Like the Janeane Garofolo character who had her father’s skull in a bowling ball?

I put mine in a Magic 8 Ball, but same difference.

108 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:15:36pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, what a tragedy. It occurs to me that probably none of the Founders got to eat guacamole. Or a chocolate bar. God, that was a deprived generation to have accomplished so much.

Wooden teeth and dysentery! This blows

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:15:51pm

re: #101 WindUpBird

Are you sure you weren’t at a Residents concert?

Anything’s possible. This was Ireland, in the early 90s, and I was drinking a lot.

110 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:16:34pm

Btw….
Wikileaks: Israel Said it Would Keep Gaza in State of Collapse

Has anyone bothered to read the actual cable on this one? I suspect there might be some nuance that isn’t making it into the headlines.

111 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:16:41pm

re: #97 WindUpBird

His career was MADE by Bill Clinton, so yeah!

Rush Limbaugh, if he’s looking at his bottom line, he’s probably praying inside for an Obama victory in 2012. It simply makes for more compelling angry radio if the Republicans are not running the show and he can rail about it, framed as an underdog

Remember briefly in 2006 when Limbaugh was bitching about carrying water for Republicans? That was probably the real guy, not the act right there. because I’m sure he IS a republican, but I’m also sure he’s putting on a show. And the show sucks when you’re playing defense

Yeah, exactly. I mean I have no doubt that Rush is a Republican and probably every bit as obnoxious in real life but I highly doubt he’s the stupid partisan he acts on air. Not sure if you watch Family Guy but he’s appeared on that show thrice now. The same show that Sarah Palin absolutely hates for “making fun of her son.”

112 Slap  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:17:10pm

re: #101 WindUpBird

Are you sure you weren’t at a Residents concert?

Many dings for the Residents reference. They’re all consolidated into the one I gave you.

Here I come, constantinople…..

113 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:17:41pm

re: #104 Slap

Ooh…Lauren Hutton…okay…I apologize. Thank you for not mentioning Catherine Deneuve…she’s my all time favorite.

114 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:17:46pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, what a tragedy. It occurs to me that probably none of the Founders got to eat guacamole. Or a chocolate bar. God, that was a deprived generation to have accomplished so much.

No pizza, burritos or cappuccino, either.

No drive thrus or half pound burgers.

Sad, you know?

115 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:18:38pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Clearly, then. guacamole was very important to the Founding Fathers. We should eat more of it.

hear, hear!

116 freetoken  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:18:50pm

GOP saves us from the Brown People!!

House GOP Ends Floor Voting Rights For Delegates

One of the first acts of the new Republican-controlled House is to take away the floor voting rights of six delegates representing areas such as the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam and American Samoa.

Five of those delegates are Democrats, while one, from the Northern Marianas Islands, is an independent.

[…]

Safe from the scourge of brown people, real Americans are now free to exercise their precious liberties.

117 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:20:18pm

re: #116 freetoken

Why the hell did they do that?

118 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:20:30pm

re: #116 freetoken

GOP saves us from the Brown People!!

House GOP Ends Floor Voting Rights For Delegates

Safe from the scourge of brown people, real Americans are now free to exercise their precious liberties.

Because the people who live in DC don’t need no stinkin representation.

119 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:20:47pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Why the hell did they do that?

Because they can. They did it in 1995 as well.

120 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:20:54pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, what a tragedy. It occurs to me that probably none of the Founders got to eat guacamole. Or a chocolate bar. God, that was a deprived generation to have accomplished so much.

Umm ,, errr,,, I’m SURE the founders had confectioneries!!!

[Link: www.metmuseum.org…]

121 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:21:12pm

re: #119 darthstar

What a dick move.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:22:45pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Btw…
Wikileaks: Israel Said it Would Keep Gaza in State of Collapse

Has anyone bothered to read the actual cable on this one? I suspect there might be some nuance that isn’t making it into the headlines.

I haven’t seen the actual cable.

123 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:22:46pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

What the hell is it about 27%? No matter how crazy something or someone is, 27% of the population is for it. I’m beginning to think there may be some science behind it.

124 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:23:05pm

re: #116 freetoken

GOP saves us from the Brown People!!

House GOP Ends Floor Voting Rights For Delegates


Safe from the scourge of brown people, real Americans are now free to exercise their precious liberties.

Its a big tent.

Except for you, get the fuck out.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:23:32pm

re: #114 researchok

No pizza, burritos or cappuccino, either.

No drive thrus or half pound burgers.

Sad, you know?

My mother says that sometimes she feels bad for all the generations of women who came before her who didn’t have chocolate.

126 BongCrodny  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:23:55pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

hahah I love Mystery Men

“WHY DON’T YOU TELL ME?”


“We’ve got a blind date with Destiny…and it looks like she’s ordered the lobster.”

127 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:24:11pm

It really is a dickish move. People who live in those territories are part of the US in many ways. Lot of Samoans and Puerto Ricans serving in the military for example. My grandfather when he was in Korea served with quite a few Puerto Ricans for instance.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:24:18pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Why the hell did they do that?


Because: Five of those delegates are Democrats, while one, from the Northern Marianas Islands, is an independent.

129 freetoken  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:24:35pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Supposedly, according to the HuffPo article, the GOP claims that the Constitution only speaks of states having representatives.

Of course, as the Dems point out, those Representatives from those now disenfranchised also represent military members from those areas. So now if one is from those areas and happens to be in the military one doesn’t have a voting Representative.

Somehow the GOP never tackles that issue. Oh, and the GOP also doesn’t tackle how the Constitution doesn’t have anything to say about having the type of colonies “territories” we have.

130 garhighway  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:24:38pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Why the hell did they do that?

Because they are brown people, who therefore must have been elected through some sort of Acorn-ish fraud scheme.

131 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:25:16pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Because: Five of those delegates are Democrats, while one, from the Northern Marianas Islands, is an independent.

probably heathens…we don’t get no respect

132 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:25:31pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Btw…
Wikileaks: Israel Said it Would Keep Gaza in State of Collapse

Has anyone bothered to read the actual cable on this one? I suspect there might be some nuance that isn’t making it into the headlines.

What the headlines missed is the fact that Israel kept them on the ‘brink’ as apposed to allowing the Palestinian economy to actually collapse.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:26:24pm

re: #120 sattv4u2

Umm ,, errr,,, I’m SURE the founders had confectioneries!!!

[Link: www.metmuseum.org…]

Sure, sweets, and drinking chocolate, but solid chocolate—what we think of as chocolate—is a mid-nineteenth-century thing.

134 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:27:34pm

re: #126 BongCrodny

“We’ve got a blind date with Destiny…and it looks like she’s ordered the lobster.”

“I’m a Pantera’s box you do not wanna open.”

135 rwdflynavy  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:27:45pm

re: #114 researchok

No pizza, burritos or cappuccino, either.

No drive thrus or half pound burgers.

Sad, you know?


I’ll bet their internet was way slow too.
//

136 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:28:37pm

re: #135 rwdflynavy

I’ll bet their internet was way slow too.
//

It took hours for wood carved porn to resolve.

137 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:28:53pm

re: #135 rwdflynavy

I’ll bet their internet was way slow too.
//

I wonder if they had pat downs at the wharfs?

138 Bear  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:29:31pm

re: #127 HappyWarrior

There were a couple of soldiers from Puerto Rico in the outfit that saved mry butt in 1946 when i was CQ one night.

139 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:29:43pm

Anyone see this trailer for the new star wars?

Youtube Video

NSFW and idk what the hell to think about this

140 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:30:10pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

My mother says that sometimes she feels bad for all the generations of women who came before her who didn’t have chocolate.

Or ice cream.

Can you imagine the hardship?

141 Slap  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:30:22pm

re: #137 researchok

I wonder if they had pat downs at the wharfs?

Only for those who commented on their junque./

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:30:33pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

Yeah, exactly. I mean I have no doubt that Rush is a Republican and probably every bit as obnoxious in real life but I highly doubt he’s the stupid partisan he acts on air. Not sure if you watch Family Guy but he’s appeared on that show thrice now. The same show that Sarah Palin absolutely hates for “making fun of her son.”

hahaha the Rancor Limbaugh was awesome

yeah, I do think he’s got to have a sense of humor, if anything the guy is a cynic about people and just sees them as a paycheck

143 Bear  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:30:35pm

re: #138 Bear

mry=my

144 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:31:04pm

re: #141 Slap

Only for those who commented on their junque./

Or long guns.

145 Sionainn  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:32:16pm

re: #140 researchok

Or ice cream.

Can you imagine the hardship?

According to this, the Founding Fathers had ice cream.

146 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:32:46pm

re: #132 researchok

What the headlines missed is the fact that Israel kept them on the ‘brink’ as apposed to allowing the Palestinian economy to actually collapse.

That’s what I suspect. The cable was probably assurances that the blockade wasn’t going to create a severe humanitarian crisis.

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:33:02pm

re: #116 freetoken

GOP saves us from the Brown People!!

House GOP Ends Floor Voting Rights For Delegates

Safe from the scourge of brown people, real Americans are now free to exercise their precious liberties.

just lovely folks, those guys, real family men

148 Ming  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:33:02pm

Republicans somehow manage to imply that people who are not Republican (or white, or heterosexual, or employed) are “against” the Constitution. This is a kind of “loyalty exercise” that one might expect to find in the old USSR, not in a vibrant democracy. I wonder if they’ll read that part about no religious test is required for any public office.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:34:20pm

re: #148 Ming

Republicans somehow manage to imply that people who are not Republican (or white, or heterosexual, or employed) are “against” the Constitution. This is a kind of “loyalty exercise” that one might expect to find in the old USSR, not in a vibrant democracy. I wonder if they’ll read that part about no religious test is required for any public office.

This isn’t logical, this is them doing a stunt, it’s no more logical than a morning show having a bunch of strippers in the studio to sit on the monitor speakers

150 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:35:25pm

re: #129 freetoken

Supposedly, according to the HuffPo article, the GOP claims that the Constitution only speaks of states having representatives.

Of course, as the Dems point out, those Representatives from those now disenfranchised also represent military members from those areas. So now if one is from those areas and happens to be in the military one doesn’t have a voting Representative.

Somehow the GOP never tackles that issue. Oh, and the GOP also doesn’t tackle how the Constitution doesn’t have anything to say about having the type of colonies “territories” we have.

It’s a good point. I really think it’s obvious that this is ideological. Most of the strongest opponents I’ve seen of giving DC’s delegate full out votign priviliges have been right wing REpublicans who don’t want more Democrats in office. We had a moderate Republican congerssman here. Tom Davis who was more open minded on that sort of thing and he had my respect for that.

151 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:39:36pm

An Exorcism??
This is going to back fire big time!!
Only a Priest can do those and it only works on Catholics!!
Everyone know that!!
/

152 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:40:24pm

re: #116 freetoken

GOP saves us from the Brown People!!

House GOP Ends Floor Voting Rights For Delegates

Safe from the scourge of brown people, real Americans are now free to exercise their precious liberties.

I appreciate the exposure on this. I think the Republicans are wrong if they think they are not going to be scrutinized by the Independents and Dems.

153 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:41:18pm

re: #149 WindUpBird

Logical…NO!
But Strippers on Monitors works every time!

154 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:41:43pm

re: #151 reloadingisnotahobby

An Exorcism??
This is going to back fire big time!!
Only a Priest can do those and it only works on Catholics!!
Everyone know that!!
/

Exactly. It’s really an anti-Catholic stunt, ‘cause most of dem Cath-o-licks can be traced back to im’grunts. Or something. Nevermind.

155 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:44:27pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

That’s what I suspect. The cable was probably assurances that the blockade wasn’t going to create a severe humanitarian crisis.

There never was a ‘humanitarian crisis’. The closest they could come up with was the banning of Cinnamon.

Oh, the inhumanity.

156 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:47:23pm

re: #155 researchok

There never was a ‘humanitarian crisis’. The closest they could come up with was the banning of Cinnamon.

Oh, the inhumanity.

But muffins and french toast won’t ever be the same!
/

157 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:47:34pm

OT: The infighting among conservatives is getting more weird by the day.

Right-Wingers Claim Muslim Brotherhood Has Infiltrated CPAC

Who would win in a fight - Frank Gaffney or Grover Norquist?

158 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:48:06pm

Reading the whole thing…?
Couldn’t they have made it a homework assignment?

159 Irenicum  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:48:52pm

I just posted a link to a great piece called: Reading the Godless Constitution and if these modern Tea Party theocrats knew the anything about the contentious environment in which the Constitution was ratified, they’d find out that they’re actually on the side of the Anti-Federalists. So for all their pompous assurances of being so pro Constitution, they’re actually the biggest opponents of what the Constitution actually says. The irony is beyond rich.

160 Kid A  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:51:03pm

Well, well, well. Looks like Bachmann (R-Mars) is considering a presidential bid. This is just too good to be true. Can you even imagine how much juicier the incoherent ramblings about dat dang soshalist Obama debates will be if this dingbat does run?
Your text to link…

161 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:52:08pm

re: #157 makeitstop

OT: The infighting among conservatives is getting more weird by the day.

Right-Wingers Claim Muslim Brotherhood Has Infiltrated CPAC

Who would win in a fight - Frank Gaffney or Grover Norquist?

Youtube Video
162 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:52:11pm

I think this is the State Dept Cable (Warning: Do not click if you’re using a Federal Computer)…
3.11.2008 CASHLESS IN GAZA?

A lot of it discusses uncertainties about how the money is actually being used along with some questionable bank practices. It is speculated that the Gilad Shalit kidnapping was also a factor.

163 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:52:19pm

re: #157 makeitstop

OT: The infighting among conservatives is getting more weird by the day.

Right-Wingers Claim Muslim Brotherhood Has Infiltrated CPAC

Who would win in a fight - Frank Gaffney or Grover Norquist?

And Grover Norquist looks somewhat sane in this argument. Crazy stuff. I wonder if clowns like Gaffney know that President Bush had a Muslim man be his ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the UN.

164 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:57:59pm

re: #163 HappyWarrior

And Grover Norquist looks somewhat sane in this argument. Crazy stuff. I wonder if clowns like Gaffney know that President Bush had a Muslim man be his ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the UN.

Gaffney bases his accusation upon the fact that former Bush appointee Suhail Khan is a member of CPAC. He also apparently has a problem with Norquist being married to a Muslim woman.

When I think back to how a knucklehead like Gaffney was treated as some kind of Middle East expert in the run-up to Iraq II, all I can do is shake my head.

165 cliffster  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:59:17pm

Senate passes important legislation

166 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:01:25pm

I’ll wait to pass judgement on most things…..
But they better start lowering the volumn on the fetching TV commercials RIGHT NOW!!
…I’m serious!

167 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:03:35pm

re: #164 makeitstop

Check out this ridiculous Gaffney quote:

“Grover Norquist is credentialing the perpetrators of this Muslim Brotherood influence operation. This is part of tradecraft, to get people who have standing in a community to give it to people who lack it, so they can do what they’re assigned to do in terms of subversion. We are in a war, and he has been working with the enemy for over a decade.”

I have no idea how to respond to this.

168 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:05:29pm

Whenever I read a quote by Gaffney, I find my left eyebrow arching in a ridiculously exaggerated fashion.

169 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:06:51pm

Virgin Mary Statue Crying For No Good Reason

WORCESTER, MA—Nearly a week after a statue of the Virgin Mary began shedding what appeared to be actual tears, worshippers at St. Alphonsus Catholic Church told reporters Wednesday they had lost patience with the figure’s nonstop whining and carrying on.

The new Speaker of the House could not be reached for comment as he is in the middle of a prolonged sob.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:08:06pm

re: #157 makeitstop

OT: The infighting among conservatives is getting more weird by the day.

Right-Wingers Claim Muslim Brotherhood Has Infiltrated CPAC

Who would win in a fight - Frank Gaffney or Grover Norquist?

They’re insane.

And apparently roaming free.

171 Irenicum  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:09:09pm

He really puts the gaff in Gaffney.

172 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:09:16pm

While I’m on the topic of Israel I need to vent….
Has Israel lost the battle to convince the world it did not kill Bil’in activist?
Yes, and here’s why; The pro-Israeli blogs have gone to shit. They have become rabid right wing neo-nazi loving extremists pushing bogus anti-Obama conspiracies and overblown hateful rhetoric against Muslims with virtually no moderation or fact checking. I kept seeing the Bil’in story on various counter Jihad blogs and the all used some incoherent cartoon as evidence of something. Their posts on the situation made no sense and provided no reputable links or evidence. I couldn’t even figure out what the fuck they were talking about until someone posted it here in the pages and I bothered to google it myself to find a reputable link.
It’s not that LGF is the only blog that can help Israel but the pro_Israel blogs have become sloppy and extreme. That’s why Israel lost the PR war on this latest incident. There aren’t enough honest and credible voices left to even put up a good fight. I suspect we’re going to see a lot more of this in the future.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:11:07pm

re: #163 HappyWarrior

And Grover Norquist looks somewhat sane in this argument. Crazy stuff. I wonder if clowns like Gaffney know that President Bush had a Muslim man be his ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the UN.

They don’t like Bush so much anymore. In retrospect, it turns out he wasn’t as crazy as they had assured themselves he was.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:12:01pm

re: #164 makeitstop

Gaffney bases his accusation upon the fact that former Bush appointee Suhail Khan is a member of CPAC. He also apparently has a problem with Norquist being married to a Muslim woman.

When I think back to how a knucklehead like Gaffney was treated as some kind of Middle East expert in the run-up to Iraq II, all I can do is shake my head.

You’d sort of think it would make sense for a former Bush appointee to be a member of CPAC.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:14:20pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

Check out this ridiculous Gaffney quote:


I have no idea how to respond to this.

It is a bit challenging, isn’t it?

176 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:15:28pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Propaganda and diplomacy used to be in the hands of nations. Now they’re in the hands of bloggers and leakers. Nations are bad at it. It seems that bloggers and leakers don’t even know what propaganda and diplomacy are.

177 Kid A  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:15:42pm

Harpy’s Obama Derangement Syndrome distaste for Obama has now reached epic proportions. Apparently, Obama is a “jerk” for wearing flip-flops. Oh, the horrah!
Your text to link…

178 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:16:51pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Israel needs to move away from the paranoid right. I don’t know if it’s going to be able to. The secular and the religious sections of society seem, to an outsider, to be more at odds than ever.

179 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:17:11pm

re: #177 Kid A

Harpy’s Obama Derangement Syndrome distaste for Obama has now reached epic proportions. Apparently, Obama is a “jerk” for wearing flip-flops. Oh, the horrah!
Your text to link…

HOW DARE A MAN WEAR SANDALS AT THE BEACH WHILE ON VACATION!
///

What an uptight gas bag.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:17:20pm

re: #177 Kid A

Harpy’s Obama Derangement Syndrome distaste for Obama has now reached epic proportions. Apparently, Obama is a “jerk” for wearing flip-flops. Oh, the horrah!
Your text to link…

He’s a Hawaiian. Those are called ‘slippahs’, and everyone wears them.

181 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:17:55pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

I should ad that the PR battle is almost unwinnable. The lefties in the press hate Israel but good bloggers can fact check and publicly embarrass them. Nutty Pam Geller as the leading pro-Israel blogger makes the whole thing easy to ignore.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:18:16pm

re: #179 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HOW DARE A MAN WEAR SANDALS AT THE BEACH WHILE ON VACATION!
///

What an uptight gas bag.

George Washington never wore flip-flops at the beach!!!!

183 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:18:34pm

re: #177 Kid A

That first comment there also indicates, I think, that the Tea Party types are not going to be happy with the GOP unless they try their darndest to impeach Obama.

184 Kid A  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:19:07pm

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

He’s Kenyan, SFZ! Everyone knows that!

185 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:19:07pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

This is not uncommon in blogs in general. Any time a blog is hyper-dedicated to a single cause it runs the risk of overkill because the most passionate defenders/supporters/whatever are preaching to each other. Waves of intensity followed by melt-downs and a loss of control over content. I’ve seen it on Slate, on Yahoo, on dKos, and am not surprised in the least that it’s happened on the blogs you refer to above. The more passionate people are, the easier they are to derail.

186 cliffster  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:19:21pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

Check out this ridiculous Gaffney quote:

I have no idea how to respond to this.

bring it on. I see nothing but good coming from this. because GOPride’s PR, meanwhile, is articulate and intelligent. put them side-by-side in the same convention.

187 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:19:53pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

I really really really hate to agree with you, but you are so very fucking right!

There’s a few of us, here in the SF Bay Area who operate a very small handful of pro-Israel, non-right-wing-crazy blogs who try our best to promote Israel in the best light possible while criticizing Israel’s foes, but it’s not enough. Not by a very very very long shot. We tell ourselves (SFV4Israel) that we will never be able to catch up with or foes, but at best, on a really good day, we might be able to jump ahead for a few seconds before the Tsunami of misinformation and vicious propaganda overtakes us again. Couple that with the bad craziness you mentioned and we’re buried up to our necks in hopelessness. As an individual Zionist and activist, I’m very close to tossing in the towel, but that’s a different story for another time.

188 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:19:55pm

re: #177 Kid A

Harpy’s Obama Derangement Syndrome distaste for Obama has now reached epic proportions. Apparently, Obama is a “jerk” for wearing flip-flops. Oh, the horrah!
Your text to link…

You should see how he dresses in the shower.

189 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:19:56pm

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

They don’t like Bush so much anymore. In retrospect, it turns out he wasn’t as crazy as they had assured themselves he was.

And I’m happy they now think they were deluded misled. However; being non-insane and having some basic human decency doesn’t make up for the fact that Bush wasn’t an very effective president.

190 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:20:53pm

Hey. Maybe they’ll finally notice that the Constitution doesn’t mention God.

191 Sionainn  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:21:07pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I should ad that the PR battle is almost unwinnable. The lefties in the press hate Israel but good bloggers can fact check and publicly embarrass them. Nutty Pam Geller as the leading pro-Israel blogger makes the whole thing easy to ignore.

I don’t understand how or when Israel became a left/right issue. That’s baffling to me.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:21:25pm

re: #184 Kid A

He’s Kenyan, SFZ! Everyone knows that!

Do Kenyans wear slippahs?

193 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:22:00pm

Oops. Guess I was beaten to the punch on that one. Worth repeating though.

194 darthstar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:22:18pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Oops. Guess I was beaten to the punch on that one. Worth repeating though.

Guacamole.

195 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:22:44pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

Do Kenyans wear slippahs?

Barefoot …Kenyans are really from Kentucky.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:23:07pm

re: #188 darthstar

You should see how he dresses in the shower.

Hey, with former San Francisco mayor Frank Jordan, we found out.

197 Kragar  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:23:46pm

re: #188 darthstar

You should see how he dresses in the shower.

They’re too busy fondling themselves to shirtless pictures of Putin.

198 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:23:46pm

re: #194 darthstar

Guacamole.

Says right here in the 28th Amendment, “God created the Earth 6000 years ago.”

//

199 What, me worry?  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:24:06pm

re: #177 Kid A

Harpy’s Obama Derangement Syndrome distaste for Obama has now reached epic proportions. Apparently, Obama is a “jerk” for wearing flip-flops. Oh, the horrah!
Your text to link…

Breaking News: Obama uses the bathroom. He actually has bowel movements! How grotesque!

NO film at 11!

Oh and btw, stop visiting Pammy. Heads have been known to explode after viewing the text and others actually have had to Baker Act themselves. True story!

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:25:59pm

re: #189 Surabaya Stew

And I’m happy they now think they were deluded misled. However; being non-insane and having some basic human decency doesn’t make up for the fact that Bush wasn’t an very effective president.

Oh, I didn’t vote for the man, and he wasn’t my favorite. But it has been a trip, watching people who liked Bush fine denounce everything Obama has done the same as raving loony Marxism. And the actual hostility toward W. himself has become more pronounced.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:26:40pm

re: #191 Sionainn

I don’t understand how or when Israel became a left/right issue. That’s baffling to me.

The late sixties, and it’s complicated as hell.

202 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:26:56pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I should ad that the PR battle is almost unwinnable. The lefties in the press hate Israel but good bloggers can fact check and publicly embarrass them. Nutty Pam Geller as the leading pro-Israel blogger makes the whole thing easy to ignore.

The lefties have infiltrated blogs, social network groups, bulletin boards, mailing lists, organizations of all flavors, trade unions, video sites, etc.

Heck, I just learned that Al Awda wants to team up with the Copts now.

And the Jewish community here just wanders around in the dark, unorganized and apathetic. As a non-Jew looking in, I JUST DON’T GET IT.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:27:15pm

re: #195 Jeff In Ohio

Barefoot …Kenyans are really from Kentucky.

But if he’s from Kentucky, that makes him…AN AMERICAN?

The plot thickens, and then thins out again.

204 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:27:23pm

re: #177 Kid A

Harpy’s Obama Derangement Syndrome distaste for Obama has now reached epic proportions. Apparently, Obama is a “jerk” for wearing flip-flops. Oh, the horrah!
Your text to link…

That reminds me of another flip-flop nontroversy.

NU’s lacrosse team sparks flip-flop flap at White House More flip-flop fun here.

Humans.

205 Sionainn  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:28:22pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

The late sixties, and it’s complicated as hell.

Hunh. It probably is complicated as these things usually are. I guess I was raised a bit differently in my lefty household than the usual. Thanks for the time frame. I’ll have to do some reading.

206 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:29:09pm

re: #185 darthstar

This is not uncommon in blogs in general. Any time a blog is hyper-dedicated to a single cause it runs the risk of overkill because the most passionate defenders/supporters/whatever are preaching to each other. Waves of intensity followed by melt-downs and a loss of control over content. I’ve seen it on Slate, on Yahoo, on dKos, and am not surprised in the least that it’s happened on the blogs you refer to above. The more passionate people are, the easier they are to derail.

It’s just painfully stupid to see the last of the ProIsrael blogs spending their time, energy and money to hob nob with Eurofascists intead of courting people who could actually help them.

207 cliffster  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:29:13pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

it’s pretty meaningless, really. I don’t think people are going to be on the fence about whether they hate israel, and then go visit a bunch of blogs to decide for sure. just like any other part of politics, if you’re into reading blogs and you feel a certain way you’re going to go to blogs that echo that feeling and work yourself into a tizzy with like-minded people.

208 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:30:16pm

re: #186 cliffster

HI CLIFF!

209 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:31:26pm

re: #191 Sionainn

I don’t understand how or when Israel became a left/right issue. That’s baffling to me.

It shouldn’t be but it is. I’m not even pro-Israel by nature but fact checking anti-Israel bias and reporting means that I generally end up on Israel’s side. That should be more universal but lefties have a hard time with it.

210 cliffster  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:32:56pm

re: #208 Stanley Sea

HI CLIFF!

well hi there, ms sea! how’s life? fearful of the coming depression that is the end of football season?

211 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:33:01pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I didn’t vote for the man, and he wasn’t my favorite. But it has been a trip, watching people who liked Bush fine denounce everything Obama has done the same as raving loony Marxism. And the actual hostility toward W. himself has become more pronounced.

I’ve enjoyed this wingnut trip too! (And I thought they would never be angry at W). Now Bush is virtully ignored when not being spat upon. It like they forgot all about the 2000 and 2004 elections and how they pushed for their man to win.

212 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:33:39pm

If this cable is true, does anyone think that a policy of keeping the Palistinians ‘on the brink of economic colapse’ is going to help or hinder Israel’s goals?
Why won’t this foster more resentment from the Palestinians and those who support them?

213 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:34:51pm

re: #209 Killgore Trout

It shouldn’t be but it is. I’m not even pro-Israel by nature but fact checking anti-Israel bias and reporting means that I generally end up on Israel’s side. That should be more universal but lefties have a hard time with it.

Lefties seem to be operating from the standpoint that Palestine was an actual state-entity that housed the Palestinians as actual citizens and Israel came in and kicked everyone out, engaged in ethnic cleansing, and founded a state over an existing state because, of course, Zionism is a racist, apartheid-based system of fascism.

Make sense?

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:34:55pm

re: #211 Surabaya Stew

I’ve enjoyed this wingnut trip too! (And I thought they would never be angry at W). Now Bush is virtully ignored when not being spat upon. It like they forgot all about the 2000 and 2004 elections and how they pushed for their man to win.

You could see it already at the 2008 RNC. I swear, a foreigner watching the show would not have had a clue this party had held the presidency for two terms.

Laura was the only person who said a kind word about Bush, and IIRC, she may actually be a Democrat.

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:35:32pm

re: #212 ozbloke

If this cable is true, does anyone think that a policy of keeping the Palistinians ‘on the brink of economic colapse’ is going to help or hinder Israel’s goals?
Why won’t this foster more resentment from the Palestinians and those who support them?

Not ‘the Palestinians’, but ‘Gaza’. There’s a specific and distinct situation there.

216 Sionainn  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:38:42pm

re: #213 eclectic infidel

Lefties seem to be operating from the standpoint that Palestine was an actual state-entity that housed the Palestinians as actual citizens and Israel came in and kicked everyone out, engaged in ethnic cleansing, and founded a state over an existing state because, of course, Zionism is a racist, apartheid-based system of fascism.

Make sense?

Wow. If that’s what “lefties” really think, then I can see why I don’t fit in that box. That’s a bunch of uneducated nonsense and they should be ashamed to let the world know just how little history they know. It’s just plain embarrassing.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:40:47pm

re: #216 Sionainn

Wow. If that’s what “lefties” really think, then I can see why I don’t fit in that box. That’s a bunch of uneducated nonsense and they should be ashamed to let the world know just how little history they know. It’s just plain embarrassing.

Ah, but to the people who buy this nonsense, it is the simple truth, and your version of history is a false one that the Zionists were able to sell to the rest of the world.

It’s very hard to educate someone who believes they are better educated than the people trying to educate them.

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:41:28pm

re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, but to the people who buy this nonsense, it is the simple truth, and your version of history is a false one that the Zionists were able to sell to the rest of the world.

It’s very hard to educate someone who believes they are better educated than the people trying to educate them.

I could start ranting about Alice Walker now, but I think I might take a nap instead.

219 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:41:40pm

re: #215 SanFranciscoZionist

Not ‘the Palestinians’, but ‘Gaza’. There’s a specific and distinct situation there.

Thanks for the clarification SFZ

220 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:42:09pm

re: #162 Killgore Trout

I think this is the State Dept Cable (Warning: Do not click if you’re using a Federal Computer)…
3.11.2008 CASHLESS IN GAZA?

A lot of it discusses uncertainties about how the money is actually being used along with some questionable bank practices. It is speculated that the Gilad Shalit kidnapping was also a factor.

There was enough money to fund new construction of shopping malls and for luxury goods.

Further, what this cable does not address is the amount of money funneled into Gaza that is misappropriated out stolen outright.

That is not an insignificant sum.

221 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:44:54pm

re: #216 Sionainn

Wow. If that’s what “lefties” really think, then I can see why I don’t fit in that box. That’s a bunch of uneducated nonsense and they should be ashamed to let the world know just how little history they know. It’s just plain embarrassing.

It’s accepted as hard fact by Israel and Jew haters alike.

For facts, there’s no demand, as the video says.

222 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:45:51pm

re: #210 cliffster

well hi there, ms sea! how’s life? fearful of the coming depression that is the end of football season?

Basketball will save me!!

223 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:46:22pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

I could start ranting about Alice Walker now, but I think I might take a nap instead.

She, someone who’s seen the beyond-horrendous atrocities of DR Congo, is of the Israel-is-also-eeevil school? o_O

224 cliffster  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:46:22pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

You could see it already at the 2008 RNC. I swear, a foreigner watching the show would not have had a clue this party had held the presidency for two terms.

Laura was the only person who said a kind word about Bush, and IIRC, she may actually be a Democrat.

it’s because the democrats were pushing the “8 years of failed policy” meme and republicans really jumped on board, because they felt that would improve their chances. should have just accepted they were going to get creamed either way, stood by bush, and gotten to work on bringing back the message of 2004.

I have my own reasons for being less than thrilled with bush, but not much mirroring what the general far-right sentiment is.

225 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:46:22pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Propaganda and diplomacy used to be in the hands of nations. Now they’re in the hands of bloggers and leakers. Nations are bad at it. It seems that bloggers and leakers don’t even know what propaganda and diplomacy are.

The other problem is that bloggers don’t have the ‘big picture’.

They are often at odds with the very people they are trying to help.

226 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:47:58pm

re: #178 Obdicut

Israel needs to move away from the paranoid right. I don’t know if it’s going to be able to. The secular and the religious sections of society seem, to an outsider, to be more at odds than ever.

The Israeli left got burned by the last Lebanese war and Hamas screwed them over as well.

It’s a tough dance they are trying to negotiate.

227 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:48:59pm

PHOTO OF THE DAY!!!

228 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:50:22pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

What did Alice Walker say? Aren’t her husband and daughter Jewish?

229 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:50:41pm

re: #187 eclectic infidel

I really really really hate to agree with you, but you are so very fucking right!

There’s a few of us, here in the SF Bay Area who operate a very small handful of pro-Israel, non-right-wing-crazy blogs who try our best to promote Israel in the best light possible while criticizing Israel’s foes, but it’s not enough. Not by a very very very long shot. We tell ourselves (SFV4Israel) that we will never be able to catch up with or foes, but at best, on a really good day, we might be able to jump ahead for a few seconds before the Tsunami of misinformation and vicious propaganda overtakes us again. Couple that with the bad craziness you mentioned and we’re buried up to our necks in hopelessness. As an individual Zionist and activist, I’m very close to tossing in the towel, but that’s a different story for another time.

You guys fight more than one battle.

The local university activists are blatant in their hate- and keep that a local issue as well.

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:50:48pm

re: #223 publicityStunted

She, someone who’s seen the beyond-horrendous atrocities of DR Congo, is of the Israel-is-also-eeevil school? o_O

Oh, yeah. She most certainly is. And her grip of the history of the region is beyond abysmal.

This is my last blog post on her writing on the subject. I spend a certain amount of time being hacked at Alice. I wrote all these papers on her novels in college, and now she goes and does this to me?

231 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:51:01pm

Odyssey: WikiLeaks info should eject U.S. from dispute

TAMPA - Sunken treasure-hunting company Odyssey Marine of Tampa today formally asked a federal court to kick the United States out of a legal dispute Odyssey is having with Spain over a half-billion dollars in silver and gold that Odyssey found on the ocean floor in 2007.

The reason: Recent diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks that suggest that U.S. ambassadors offered special help – not to U.S.-based Odyssey – but to Spain in exchange for help returning to a U.S. citizen a French painting that Nazis had confiscated in World War II that now hangs in a museum in Madrid.

More at link…

232 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:51:09pm

re: #227 Stanley Sea

PHOTO OF THE DAY!!!

Well. We’ve got the first sandal wearing president and the first crying speaker of the house!

Image: x999.jpg

=)

233 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:51:36pm

Teh beta males haz takens over!!11ty

//

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:52:04pm

re: #228 moderatelyradicalliberal

What did Alice Walker say? Aren’t her husband and daughter Jewish?

My blog post (above) has links to other posts I’ve written about her Israel issues.

She’s no longer speaking to either the ex-husband or the daughter, apparently, so less to worry about there.

235 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:52:34pm

re: #227 Stanley Sea

PHOTO OF THE DAY!!!

Even during the post-midterm press interviews, I couldn’t help but notice this (i.e. Pelosi far more dignified in defeat than Boehner in victory)

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:52:44pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Teh beta males haz takens over!!11ty

//

Well, thank God for that. What exactly is supposed to be so bad about beta males?

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:53:53pm

re: #235 publicityStunted

Even during the post-midterm press interviews, I couldn’t help but notice this (i.e. Pelosi far more dignified in defeat than Boehner in victory)

She’s a lot tougher than he is. I was going to say it’s also easier to go out than to come in, with these things, but then I recall her happily whacking around her gavel in those first pictures, with grandkids climbing all over the place.

238 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:53:54pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, thank God for that. What exactly is supposed to be so bad about beta males?

Nada. I think it both shows a change in society. Years ago Boehner would have been sunk for his crying. More power to him. And more power to Obama for wearing sandals.

239 Slap  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:54:15pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, thank God for that. What exactly is supposed to be so bad about beta males?

They’ve been upstaged by vhs males…..?

240 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:54:58pm

re: #234 SanFranciscoZionist

I just read. Sounds like confusion caused by ignorance about who the underdog is. As a general rule, I look sideways at anyone who doesn’t speak to their children (ex spouses I understand) or who’s children don’t speak to them.

241 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:55:00pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, yeah. She most certainly is. And her grip of the history of the region is beyond abysmal.

This is my last blog post on her writing on the subject. I spend a certain amount of time being hacked at Alice. I wrote all these papers on her novels in college, and now she goes and does this to me?

that is your blog???

242 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:55:19pm

re: #229 researchok

You guys fight more than one battle.

The local university activists are blatant in their hate- and keep that a local issue as well.

Oh yeah. Students for Justice in Palestine at UCB is a fine group of haters and cretins. Last year one of ‘em by the name of Husam Zakharia assaulted a Jewish woman on campus during Israel Peace week with, ironically, a cart full of toys allegedly bound for Gaza. Anyway, she got a restraining order on the creep - I went to the hearing. He’s a professional activist - we don’t know who pays his bills, but he has already graduated from UCB and takes 1 class a semester as he stays on to head and guide the CAL SJP. One of his stunts included standing on an Israeli flag while smoking a cigarette, guess where the ash went?

243 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:55:22pm

The kiss!

244 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:56:16pm

re: #238 Gus 802

Nada. I think it both shows a change in society. Years ago Boehner would have been sunk for his crying. More power to him. And more power to Obama for wearing sandals.

I go barefoot.

Obama’s not so tough.
//

245 webevintage  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:56:17pm

re: #116 freetoken

GOP saves us from the Brown People!!

House GOP Ends Floor Voting Rights For Delegates

No TAXATION without REPRESENTATION.
Unless you are a brown person…..

(they pay taxes..right?)

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:56:39pm

re: #241 researchok

that is your blog???

Yes. Are you familiar with it?

247 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:56:40pm

re: #244 researchok

I go barefoot.

Obama’s not so tough.
//

Real men step on nails. Barefoot.

//

248 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:57:35pm

re: #242 eclectic infidel

Last year one of ‘em by the name of Husam Zakharia assaulted a Jewish woman on campus during Israel Peace week with, ironically, a cart full of toys allegedly bound for Gaza.

They don’t really like or care about Palestinians either, do they?

249 Slap  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:58:09pm

re: #213 eclectic infidel

Based on my anecdotal experience, this is, sadly, an incredibly common misconception amongst many.

You have concisely and eloquently described the perception problem, though, and I could not agree with you more. Well said.

250 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:58:15pm

re: #242 eclectic infidel

Oh yeah. Students for Justice in Palestine at UCB is a fine group of haters and cretins. Last year one of ‘em by the name of Husam Zakharia assaulted a Jewish woman on campus during Israel Peace week with, ironically, a cart full of toys allegedly bound for Gaza. Anyway, she got a restraining order on the creep - I went to the hearing. He’s a professional activist - we don’t know who pays his bills, but he has already graduated from UCB and takes 1 class a semester as he stays on to head and guide the CAL SJP. One of his stunts included standing on an Israeli flag while smoking a cigarette, guess where the ash went?

Was it SF State that had the Kosher ‘Palestinians Kids’ can’?

I can’t recall for sure

251 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:00:22pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Are you familiar with it?

NO!!!

I can’t believe I didn’t know about that!

Now I’ll have to send you some of the stuff I wrote for my blog (when I actually had the time to write).

You’ll be proud of me- just no red pencils, OK?

252 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:01:11pm

re: #248 moderatelyradicalliberal

They don’t really like or care about Palestinians either, do they?

Nope- it is all an exercise in racism, bigotry and hate.

Nothing more.

253 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:01:30pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

She’s a lot tougher than he is. I was going to say it’s also easier to go out than to come in, with these things, but then I recall her happily whacking around her gavel in those first pictures, with grandkids climbing all over the place.

Not to mention when she calmly walked the gauntlet of seething, screaming, spittle-spewing teabaggers on the day of the health care vote. Can you even picture Boehner doing the same? I daresay he’d break down into a blubbering mess at the sight of three puppet-bearing Code Pink ladies :P

254 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:01:57pm

re: #248 moderatelyradicalliberal

They don’t really like or care about Palestinians either, do they?

Well, not once have I seen or heard them publicly denounce Hamas for terrorizing the Palestinians.

255 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:02:08pm

re: #247 Gus 802

Real men step on nails. Barefoot.

//

No.

Real men do 5 mile fire walks.

//

256 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:02:41pm

re: #253 publicityStunted

I’m hoping one day he will cry hard enough for his fake tanning spray to start running.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:02:59pm

re: #248 moderatelyradicalliberal

They don’t really like or care about Palestinians either, do they?

It depends. A lot of people who subscribe to this sort of thinking don’t know a huge amount about the situation, but they’re concerned about Palestinians and want to see them get a fair shake. They get their information from sources that may or may not be good, but are essentially well-meaning.

Then there are the screaming haters. And there’s a lot in-between. It’s sort of a graph with two lines—one representing concern for Palestinians, and the other hatred for Jews, or Zionists, or American client states, or white people—the anti-Israel activists uniformly think of Israelis as white people—or whatever.

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:03:33pm

re: #250 researchok

Was it SF State that had the Kosher ‘Palestinians Kids’ can’?

I can’t recall for sure

Yes. They were.

I spent a summer taking classes at SF State. It was interesting.

259 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:04:10pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

I also blame those who continually pose the conflict in terms of Israel vs. Palestine, rather than Israel vs. rest of the Middle East. The Palestinians are mainly the proxy force used by the other Middle Eastern states, as can be clearly seen by those states’ treatment of the Palestinian refugees.

260 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:04:19pm

re: #251 researchok

NO!!!

I can’t believe I didn’t know about that!

Now I’ll have to send you some of the stuff I wrote for my blog (when I actually had the time to write).

You’ll be proud of me- just no red pencils, OK?

Oh, well, welcome to the blog, then! I mostly meander about housecleaning and my job, but sometimes I get my act together to write about current events.

261 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:05:07pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

It depends. A lot of people who subscribe to this sort of thinking don’t know a huge amount about the situation, but they’re concerned about Palestinians and want to see them get a fair shake. They get their information from sources that may or may not be good, but are essentially well-meaning.

Then there are the screaming haters. And there’s a lot in-between. It’s sort of a graph with two lines—one representing concern for Palestinians, and the other hatred for Jews, or Zionists, or American client states, or white people—the anti-Israel activists uniformly think of Israelis as white people—or whatever.

That’s why I wish JIMENA was more active but I they aren’t into political activism. But what an eye opener that would be for the screaming racist haters to see Jews who speak both Hebrew and Arabic, who are dark with similar features.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:05:26pm

re: #253 publicityStunted

Not to mention when she calmly walked the gauntlet of seething, screaming, spittle-spewing teabaggers on the day of the health care vote. Can you even picture Boehner doing the same? I daresay he’d break down into a blubbering mess at the sight of three puppet-bearing Code Pink ladies :P

The puppets are pretty creepy, to be perfectly fair.

263 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:05:50pm

re: #254 eclectic infidel

Well, not once have I seen or heard them publicly denounce Hamas for terrorizing the Palestinians.

I have said many times before- you can crticize Israeli policies all day long. However, when you support Hamas (and the PA for that matter) who embracw and support racism, bigotry, hate, calls to genocide and so on, you become a bigot and a racist.

It isn’t as if Palestinian society hides their agenda. In media, school curricula and from many pulpits, the Palestinians are quite clear as to their aims and ideologies.

‘We’ll finish what Hitler’ started is hard to misinterpret.

264 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:06:27pm

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. They were.

I spent a summer taking classes at SF State. It was interesting.

What was the “kosher ‘Palestinian kids’ can?”

265 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:06:43pm

re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, well, welcome to the blog, then! I mostly meander about housecleaning and my job, but sometimes I get my act together to write about current events.

So when are you and Alice having tea?
/

266 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:11:42pm

re: #264 eclectic infidel

What was the “kosher ‘Palestinian kids’ can?”

There was an image of can with a label that read something along the lines of ‘Dead Palestinians Babies- 100% Kosher’

This was a few years back. The image on the can might have been Shalhevet Pass. I’m not sure.

It was worthy of Goebbels

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:12:14pm

re: #259 Obdicut

I also blame those who continually pose the conflict in terms of Israel vs. Palestine, rather than Israel vs. rest of the Middle East. The Palestinians are mainly the proxy force used by the other Middle Eastern states, as can be clearly seen by those states’ treatment of the Palestinian refugees.

The anti-Israel crowd desperately wants to screen out the rest of the Middle East—except when places like Egypt can be denounced as American stoolies.

If you put the conflict into context, their narrative breaks down. So, the tendency is to ignore the context. You find a lot of denial about the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries after 48 for example. It didn’t happen, or the Jews who left were traitors, or the Zionists committed terrorist acts and blamed it on the Arab governments to get Jews to leave, or it has nothing at all to do with the Palestinians.

Actually looking at the history of the region, and how things could be set up so everyone gets peace, prosperity and clean water is pretty much out of the question for most of these guys.

268 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:13:50pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

The anti-Israel crowd desperately wants to screen out the rest of the Middle East—except when places like Egypt can be denounced as American stoolies.

If you put the conflict into context, their narrative breaks down. So, the tendency is to ignore the context. You find a lot of denial about the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries after 48 for example. It didn’t happen, or the Jews who left were traitors, or the Zionists committed terrorist acts and blamed it on the Arab governments to get Jews to leave, or it has nothing at all to do with the Palestinians.

Actually looking at the history of the region, and how things could be set up so everyone gets peace, prosperity and clean water is pretty much out of the question for most of these guys.

It’s not going to happen… not until Jesus returns.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:14:31pm

re: #261 eclectic infidel

That’s why I wish JIMENA was more active but I they aren’t into political activism. But what an eye opener that would be for the screaming racist haters to see Jews who speak both Hebrew and Arabic, who are dark with similar features.

I’d like to see more Sephardi and Mizrahi involvement as well—but I don’t think the screaming racist haters would get an attitude readjustment. If they were able, they wouldn’t be screaming racist haters.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:15:17pm

re: #263 researchok

I have said many times before- you can crticize Israeli policies all day long. However, when you support Hamas (and the PA for that matter) who embracw and support racism, bigotry, hate, calls to genocide and so on, you become a bigot and a racist.

It isn’t as if Palestinian society hides their agenda. In media, school curricula and from many pulpits, the Palestinians are quite clear as to their aims and ideologies.

‘We’ll finish what Hitler’ started is hard to misinterpret.

The problem is that Fatah has sort of managed to make themselves the only game in town.

271 KingKenrod  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:16:08pm

re: #231 ozbloke

Odyssey: WikiLeaks info should eject U.S. from dispute

TAMPA - Sunken treasure-hunting company Odyssey Marine of Tampa today formally asked a federal court to kick the United States out of a legal dispute Odyssey is having with Spain over a half-billion dollars in silver and gold that Odyssey found on the ocean floor in 2007.

The reason: Recent diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks that suggest that U.S. ambassadors offered special help – not to U.S.-based Odyssey – but to Spain in exchange for help returning to a U.S. citizen a French painting that Nazis had confiscated in World War II that now hangs in a museum in Madrid.

More at link…

I wonder who that “U.S. citizen” is.

272 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:16:26pm

re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that Fatah has sort of managed to make themselves the only game in town.

Yup- and ya gotta dance with the one that brung ya.

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:17:03pm

re: #264 eclectic infidel

What was the “kosher ‘Palestinian kids’ can?”

These were put up around the SF State Campus, back in the 90s.

274 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:17:13pm

re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that Fatah has sort of managed to make themselves the only game in town.

I’d like to email you some of my stuff.

275 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:17:44pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s not just the anti-Israel faction, though; there’s a strong contingent of people in the US who find it very convenient to be best buddies with Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain, and the UAE, and to pretend that they’re not a problem for Israel, that it’s just those naughty, dirty Palestinians.

Anyone who studied the region’s history would probably ask why the fuck we were allies with Saudi Arabia. Hell, anyone who studies the region’s present would ask that.

The boring, painful answer, of course, being oil and money.

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:17:59pm

re: #266 researchok

There was an image of can with a label that read something along the lines of ‘Dead Palestinians Babies- 100% Kosher’

This was a few years back. The image on the can might have been Shalhevet Pass. I’m not sure.

It was worthy of Goebbels

“Slaughtered according to Jewish rites”.

277 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:18:13pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

These were put up around the SF State Campus, back in the 90s.

Oh my.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:18:52pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

It’s not going to happen… not until Jesus returns.

You think one more Jewish hippie is really going to sort this mess out?

///

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:19:44pm

re: #274 researchok

I’d like to email you some of my stuff.

Sure. Should be blue.

280 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:20:39pm

re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist

“Slaughtered according to Jewish rites”.

Makes my blood boil.

My antecedents were of Sephardic stock (Expulsion to Holland, from there to England). The Jewish side of my family’s DNA made not caring not an option.

And, I like them better anyway.

281 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:21:35pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. Should be blue.

I have no idea what that means.

I’m at my nic at g mail.

282 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:22:55pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Oh my.

That’s just the tip of of the SF State iceberg antisemitism festival, a year round event.

283 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:23:50pm

re: #129 freetoken

Supposedly, according to the HuffPo article, the GOP claims that the Constitution only speaks of states having representatives.

Of course, as the Dems point out, those Representatives from those now disenfranchised also represent military members from those areas. So now if one is from those areas and happens to be in the military one doesn’t have a voting Representative.

Somehow the GOP never tackles that issue. Oh, and the GOP also doesn’t tackle how the Constitution doesn’t have anything to say about having the type of colonies “territories” we have.

I would suggest a Constitutional Amendment rather than carry this practice on for the coming years depending on whichever party is the majority. Otherwise, the GOP is correct regarding the Constitutionality of this Democratic provision.

284 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:27:03pm

re: #266 researchok

There was an image of can with a label that read something along the lines of ‘Dead Palestinians Babies- 100% Kosher’

This was a few years back. The image on the can might have been Shalhevet Pass. I’m not sure.

It was worthy of Goebbels

SF State had its own issues with Palestinian groups. I am FB friends with one of the former presidents of the SF State College Republicans - Leigh Wolf. Good guy. He really stood up to them in the face of vicious hatred. Granted, he was more anti-Hamas/radical Islam than pro-Israel in his message but for a good year or so when he was in school there, he’d show up at counter demonstrations and stand with us. At one such counter demo at Civic Center, a couple of us stood with a larger group of college Republicans for both solidarity and safety.

Here’s a video of the College Republicans staging a demonstration. As you can tell, the pro-Hamas crowd is anything but peaceful.

285 Gus  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:28:27pm

Also. Guam was never a colony of the USA. It was originally a colony of Spain. Later it was invaded by the Japanese in which the Guamanians faced “torture, beheadings, and rape, and were forced to adopt the Japanese culture.” That lasted until the US invasion of Guam.

286 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:31:21pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

These were put up around the SF State Campus, back in the 90s.

Disgusting, but it demonstrates it isn’t about Israel - pure Jew hatred.

287 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:31:55pm

re: #216 Sionainn

You might be surprised to learn how many supposedly “educated” people spout precisely such nonesense.

288 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:33:48pm

re: #266 researchok

There was an image of can with a label that read something along the lines of ‘Dead Palestinians Babies- 100% Kosher’

This was a few years back. The image on the can might have been Shalhevet Pass. I’m not sure.

It was worthy of Goebbels

Vile stuff. This is the attitude here in the Bay Area. This is what we are forced to contend with on a regular basis.

Again, why isn’t the Jewish community banding together? I don’t get it.

289 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:35:04pm

re: #288 eclectic infidel

Well, it’s also kind of isolated. I lived in the Bay area for more than ten years and never encountered outright antisemitism, except for a few stupid signs at some of the “We’re douches with little understanding of geopolitics” marches.

I never ran into a single person in SF who had a problem with me being a Jew.

290 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:35:23pm

re: #288 eclectic infidel

Vile stuff. This is the attitude here in the Bay Area. This is what we are forced to contend with on a regular basis.

Again, why isn’t the Jewish community banding together? I don’t get it.

You want an honest answer? Really? Because if you do, it will hit you where it hurts most (heart).

291 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:38:13pm

re: #191 Sionainn

I don’t understand how or when Israel became a left/right issue. That’s baffling to me.

Because in modern American politics everything is a Right/Left issue. It’s either the purest good or the most corrupt evil. Nuance, history and ethics have no place in it anymore.

292 albusteve  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:38:35pm

re: #290 researchok

You want an honest answer? Really? Because if you do, it will hit you where it hurts most (heart).

I’m all ears

293 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:39:15pm

re: #254 eclectic infidel

Well, not once have I seen or heard them publicly denounce Hamas for terrorizing the Palestinians.


That, of course, is because they do not support the Palestinians so much as they oppose the Jews and the Jewish sovereign presence in their historic and ancestral homeland.

294 KayInMaine  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:40:21pm

They believe in exorcisms and they all have weird sexual fetishes too! Eww. I was listening to Rush when he had Pelosi’s speech from today on. He was sickened at how she mentioned the Constitution at all! Funny how it’s a fetish when a Democrat talks about it, but when a republican does, ole Limbo believes it’s the closest thing to g-d!

295 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:40:22pm

re: #289 Obdicut

Well, it’s also kind of isolated. I lived in the Bay area for more than ten years and never encountered outright antisemitism, except for a few stupid signs at some of the “We’re douches with little understanding of geopolitics” marches.

I never ran into a single person in SF who had a problem with me being a Jew.

But if you’re a Zionist, that’s a different story entirely. We have Jews here who are rabidly anti-Zionist and anti-Israel who stand shoulder-to-shoulder with antisemitic Arab groups like Al Awda.

296 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:41:07pm

re: #290 researchok

You want an honest answer? Really? Because if you do, it will hit you where it hurts most (heart).

I’ll bite.

297 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:41:44pm

re: #263 researchok

I have said many times before- you can crticize Israeli policies all day long. However, when you support Hamas (and the PA for that matter) who embracw and support racism, bigotry, hate, calls to genocide and so on, you become a bigot and a racist.

It isn’t as if Palestinian society hides their agenda. In media, school curricula and from many pulpits, the Palestinians are quite clear as to their aims and ideologies.

‘We’ll finish what Hitler’ started is hard to misinterpret.

The Palestinians and their supporters learned long ago that they do not have to hide their agenda, because much of the Western elite, including media and academia, will do that for them.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:41:55pm

re: #295 eclectic infidel

But if you’re a Zionist, that’s a different story entirely. We have Jews here who are rabidly anti-Zionist and anti-Israel who stand shoulder-to-shoulder with antisemitic Arab groups like Al Awda.

Well, also, most people in the Bay Area aren’t involved in this at all. Which makes it the more horrifying when you get involved and all the extreme haterade stats oozing out.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:42:38pm

I’m really, really, for real going to take a nap now.

300 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:43:14pm

re: #295 eclectic infidel

Well, I’m a ‘Zionist’ insofar as I support Israel’s right to exist. I didn’t do marches and the like simply because I don’t think that anyone pays any attention at all to marches in San Francisco. But I never had to hide my politics, and I never got grief for being pro-Israel.

I’m just pointing out that the intensity of anti-Israel sentiment is regulated to a very small portion of the population, even if a majority of Bay Area people might have some vague feeling they were supposed to be sympathizing with the Palestinian’s plight.

301 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:44:16pm

re: #300 Obdicut

Well, I’m a ‘Zionist’ insofar as I support Israel’s right to exist. I didn’t do marches and the like simply because I don’t think that anyone pays any attention at all to marches in San Francisco. But I never had to hide my politics, and I never got grief for being pro-Israel.

I’m just pointing out that the intensity of anti-Israel sentiment is regulated to a very small portion of the population, even if a majority of Bay Area people might have some vague feeling they were supposed to be sympathizing with the Palestinian’s plight.

True, by my own observation, most people don’t give a frak.

302 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:47:04pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Teh beta males haz takens over!!11ty

//

Or in Boehner’s case, the beta-carotene males.

303 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:49:43pm

re: #292 albusteve

I’m all ears

Firstly, San Francisco is an outlier. It is not a ‘If it plays in Peoria’ kind of place. There are many reasons as to how SF evolved that way, but that is another discussion.

SF derives much of it’s collective identity from being different. SF is not NY, LA, Chicago or Houston and never will be (Even the great tech boom is mostly outside of SF and is remarkably un SF-like!). SF has carved out van identity and is darn proud of it. That is not a bad thing. Most San Franciscans know their shtick plays only at home.

SF, like the rest of California was the last stop on the train west, the train of second chances. Now, in order for second chances to be meaningful, you have to live in a very forgiving community. And therein lies the origins of SF’s uniqueness.

Every other part of California offered not only second chance but a the opportunity to succeed with lots of hard work. SF was different, populated by get rich quick schemers, 49’s and other assorted characters. Think of SF as a large Greewich Village or Bowery.

The good part is coming up…

304 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:51:36pm

re: #303 researchok

You have a really weird idea of what SF is and was like.

305 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:54:43pm

re: #157 makeitstop

OT: The infighting among conservatives is getting more weird by the day.

Right-Wingers Claim Muslim Brotherhood Has Infiltrated CPAC

Oh this rules

this is the funniest news today

306 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:56:39pm

re: #303 researchok

is this a little armchair psychoanalyze a city from the hurr de durr big talk show host who has all the answers?


Seriously dude, Paul Harvey is dead, let’s not exhume his skeleton and make out with it

307 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:59:49pm

re: #306 WindUpBird

…Paul Harvey is dead, let’s not exhume his skeleton and make out with it

That’s a great line.

308 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:08:41pm

SF offered forgiveness and tolerance upfront with no payment required. That made the city unique. Everybody had credibility, everyone was special and everyone banded together to keep it that way.

If you said you were a victim, well by gosh SF’cans were going to step right in and fix that. (recall the small fortune spent on apartments for people who could not work because they were ‘allergic to everything’).

Anti Israel sentiment is tolerated because the Palestinians are portrayed not as the persecutors (which they are) but rather, as victims. In SF, that means everyone comes to the rescue. Further, the Palestinians and their supporters play the emotion card to the hilt. Why? Because they cannot make their argument work any other way. Not politically, intellectually, morally or ethically.

That there is a fact. As to why and and when emotions became a virtue is a whole other topic.

Now, you may say ‘Well, he’s right of center, etc’ and that is all true. Except, I am right. I say this not from a political POV, but rather as a behaviorist with a some experience.

SF is unique and SF will turn a blind eye when necessary, as long as the meme is served. By no means is SF blind to reality (recall Pelosi and her ‘handling’ of the homeless near her home’)- when push comes to shove, business in SF is remarkably conservative.

Anti Israel sentiment- and other more insidious kinds of bigotry will be tolerated as long as the meme is one of victim and victimizer. As long as that charade is tolerated, it will be SSDD.

Reality in the middle east? See these:

Birth Of A Nation, A Garden Blooms
Temptations And Choices
The Poison
The Promise
The Third Rail Of Palestinan Failure

These are redacted work product.

Yes, I get paid for my work handsomely.

They are not political, though many want to see them that way because they upset a certain meme.

If you care to, read them with an open mind.

My conclusions may not always be perfect, but a lot of people thought they were good enough to pay for- including a large contingent from the left side of the spectrum

309 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:09:58pm

re: #306 WindUpBird

is this a little armchair psychoanalyze a city from the hurr de durr big talk show host who has all the answers?

Seriously dude, Paul Harvey is dead, let’s not exhume his skeleton and make out with it

Not to worry.

And, I will say again you made me LMAO last week early in the AM.

I seriously lost it!

310 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:15:00pm

re: #308 researchok

To be clear, these are redacted work product.

Further, I spent some in SF a few years ago.

I do not do ‘armchair’ analysis.

311 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:19:15pm

re: #228 moderatelyradicalliberal

What did Alice Walker say? Aren’t her husband and daughter Jewish?

“Israel is becoming the same as nazi Germany”

312 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:21:18pm

re: #308 researchok

SF offered forgiveness and tolerance upfront with no payment required. That made the city unique. Everybody had credibility, everyone was special and everyone banded together to keep it that way.

This isn’t actually true, though. It’s a nice story, but not true. It definitely wasn’t historically true. It started to become the story of San Francisco during the 1960s, but it was only the most narratively satisfying story. It was never the whole story. It wasn’t the story of the Chinese and Hispanic immigrants. It wasn’t the story of Hunter’s Point.

If you said you were a victim, well by gosh SF’cans were going to step right in and fix that. (recall the small fortune spent on apartments for people who could not work because they were ‘allergic to everything’).

I suppose you missed the repeated campaigns against the homeless, where their possessions were destroyed, and their camps moved?

[Link: www.welcomeministry.org…]

Your view of San Francisco may not be armchair analysis, but it doesn’t reflect any real knowledge of the city, either in its history or present form.

San Francisco is a more ‘liberal’ city with a higher emphasis on providing services to residents than other cities. It is not about victimhood, though it may appear that way to an outsider.

313 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:21:49pm

re: #311 Alouette

“Israel is becoming the same as nazi Germany”

Reminds me of the morons who say the fact that they have family murdered in the Holocaust gives them extra credibility when it comes to the Palestinians

I would submit they are in the minority view of Jews who lost family in the Holocaust.

314 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:25:45pm

re: #312 Obdicut

This isn’t actually true, though. It’s a nice story, but not true. It definitely wasn’t historically true. It started to become the story of San Francisco during the 1960s, but it was only the most narratively satisfying story. It was never the whole story. It wasn’t the story of the Chinese and Hispanic immigrants. It wasn’t the story of Hunter’s Point.

I suppose you missed the repeated campaigns against the homeless, where their possessions were destroyed, and their camps moved?

[Link: www.welcomeministry.org…]

Your view of San Francisco may not be armchair analysis, but it doesn’t reflect any real knowledge of the city, either in its history or present form.

San Francisco is a more ‘liberal’ city with a higher emphasis on providing services to residents than other cities. It is not about victimhood, though it may appear that way to an outsider.

Are you seriously suggesting that SF only became known as liberal in the 60’s?

315 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:28:18pm

re: #313 researchok

Reminds me of the morons who say the fact that they have family murdered in the Holocaust gives them extra credibility when it comes to the Palestinians

I would submit they are in the minority view of Jews who lost family in the Holocaust.

Not to mention, Hedy Epstein is not even a “Holocaust survivor” but lies about being one.

There are very, very few real “Holocaust survivors” who actively support the Palestinians and are vociferously anti-Israel, maybe two or three at the most, but they are very noisy and they are waved like a banner.

316 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:29:52pm

re: #315 Alouette

Not to mention, Hedy Epstein is not even a “Holocaust survivor” but lies about being one.

There are very, very few real “Holocaust survivors” who actively support the Palestinians and are vociferously anti-Israel, maybe two or three at the most, but they are very noisy and they are waved like a banner.

Right- she was sent off to the UK as a child, as I recall.

Am I right on that?

317 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:31:03pm

re: #314 researchok

Are you seriously suggesting that SF only became known as liberal in the 60’s?

No, I’m suggesting that the narrative line that it was a place where victims would be nurtured only began in the ’60s. Immediately prior to that, for example, was the Hunter’s Point debacle, where returning white soldiers from WWII displaced the black shipyard workers; hardly the story of tolerance and victim-loving that you’re endorsing as the one story of San Francisco.

And even that story isn’t actually true, not in the hyperbolic way you’re presenting it.

318 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:33:29pm

re: #317 Obdicut

No, I’m suggesting that the narrative line that it was a place where victims would be nurtured only began in the ’60s. Immediately prior to that, for example, was the Hunter’s Point debacle, where returning white soldiers from WWII displaced the black shipyard workers; hardly the story of tolerance and victim-loving that you’re endorsing as the one story of San Francisco.

And even that story isn’t actually true, not in the hyperbolic way you’re presenting it.

You and I are talking about two very different things.

You are making reference to history/politics. I cede you probably know more about that than I.

I am talking about something very different- the psycho-social history and evolution of the region.

319 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:35:10pm

re: #318 researchok

You are making reference to history/politics. I cede you probably know more about that than I.

You started off talking about history, you know.


I am talking about something very different- the psycho-social history and evolution of the region.

Yes. Which you’re getting wrong, as well. That’s what I’m pointing out. You’re taking the aspect that was put on the city in the 1960’s and looking backwards at San Francisco’s past to make it fit that lens; it’s not the real story of how San Francisco evolved.

Have you read Herb Caen?

320 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:35:22pm

re: #317 Obdicut

No, I’m suggesting that the narrative line that it was a place where victims would be nurtured only began in the ’60s. Immediately prior to that, for example, was the Hunter’s Point debacle, where returning white soldiers from WWII displaced the black shipyard workers; hardly the story of tolerance and victim-loving that you’re endorsing as the one story of San Francisco.

And even that story isn’t actually true, not in the hyperbolic way you’re presenting it.

By the way, Hunters Point was a singular event at a certain time in history,

SF’s evolution was and remains experiential.

321 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:36:30pm

re: #320 researchok

SF’s evolution was and remains experiential.

Can you put that in non-jargon terms, please?

322 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:36:55pm

re: #319 Obdicut

You started off talking about history, you know.

Yes. Which you’re getting wrong, as well. That’s what I’m pointing out. You’re taking the aspect that was put on the city in the 1960’s and looking backwards at San Francisco’s past to make it fit that lens; it’s not the real story of how San Francisco evolved.

Have you read Herb Caen?

I have not read Caen.

323 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:38:11pm

re: #322 researchok

I have not read Caen.

It is pretty much impossible to understand the character of San Francisco without reading Herb Caen. He was the single most important and constant factor in defining what a San Franciscan was.

The good news is he’s a really funny writer.

324 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:39:28pm

re: #322 researchok

I have not read Caen.

You would enjoy him. He’s gone now, but LOVED SF and described it in the most beautiful terms! Like Jack Smith did for Los Angeles, another great daily newspaper author.

325 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:40:17pm

re: #324 Floral Giraffe

The only man from whom I’d accept an ellipses anytime.

326 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:41:55pm

re: #321 Obdicut

Can you put that in non-jargon terms, please?

Yes.

Events are moments in time with fixed starting and ending times (that is not to say that there are no spillover effects, but events start and end).

Experiences are more fluid, with no fixed starting or ending time.

Being a child is experiential, as is being a parent.

Experiences also allow for evolution of culture, language and behavior. Experiences are also allow us to define our own identity (as in we can choose some of the experiences we wish assimilate,

327 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:43:00pm

re: #324 Floral Giraffe

You would enjoy him. He’s gone now, but LOVED SF and described it in the most beautiful terms! Like Jack Smith did for Los Angeles, another great daily newspaper author.

Sounds like a plan. My time in SF was mostly with clients and other shrink types.

The food though, was freakin’ unbelievable.

328 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:45:45pm

re: #326 researchok

Hunter’s point was not just a singular event, though. It followed a pattern in San Francisco, repeated many times.

329 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:47:41pm

re: #323 Obdicut

It is pretty much impossible to understand the character of San Francisco without reading Herb Caen. He was the single most important and constant factor in defining what a San Franciscan was.

The good news is he’s a really funny writer.

I’ll take your word for it. I will make a point of reading him.

Again, my observations reflect my interests in behavioral observations. Also, in the intewrest of opacity, the remarks on the SF being the end of the train line for the get rich quick types were not my own. I was repeating what I was told by a reswpected SF local shrink type.

I found him to be most credible because of his restaurant choices.

That said, the SOB didn’t take me to the Cable Car place or the other well know burger joint.

Still, that man knew dim sum

330 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:48:59pm

re: #328 Obdicut

Hunter’s point was not just a singular event, though. It followed a pattern in San Francisco, repeated many times.

Then would you say (based on the history) that SF is compensating for that past? That would make the city unique in some ways.

331 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:49:40pm

re: #329 researchok

Man, I need to edit before posting.

332 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:50:00pm

re: #327 researchok

LOL! The Safeway grocery store near Fort Mason, is the meat market described in the Armistead Maupin Tales of the city.

333 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:52:07pm

re: #332 Floral Giraffe

LOL! The Safeway grocery store near Fort Mason, is the meat market described in the Armistead Maupin Tales of the city.

All I know is the best Chinese food is served on the second floor of any building in Chinatown.

Has to be on the second floor.

334 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 4:56:12pm

re: #333 researchok

And there’s an alley to the east of Union Square, that has opera singers singing on the sidewalk, weekends, and the most amazing calamari salad.
Remind me, before you next visit & I’ll look up the restaurants name. It’s a great way to spend a weekend day, downtown.
Now, I’m hungry.

335 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:00:19pm

Go ahead. Kill me.
//

There is no real Chinese here in Raleigh.

Unless you county buffets. Lot of blue polyester double knit.

Really.

336 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:17:07pm

re: #330 researchok

Then would you say (based on the history) that SF is compensating for that past? That would make the city unique in some ways.

No, it’s not. Hunter’s Point is still a terrible ghetto. It hasn’t compensated at all. The residents of the Fillmore district (totally seperate) who were displaced during urban renewal (part of the pattern) just managed, after a long legal battle, to get compensation.

The whole ‘tolerance’ thing is extremely patchy. That’s my point. San Francisco has always been bohemian far more than it has been ‘socialist’.

That’s why your psycho-whatsit history is just ringing completely false. It’s really not at all about catering to or coddling self-appointed ‘victims’.

337 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:42:41pm

re: #336 Obdicut

No, it’s not. Hunter’s Point is still a terrible ghetto. It hasn’t compensated at all. The residents of the Fillmore district (totally seperate) who were displaced during urban renewal (part of the pattern) just managed, after a long legal battle, to get compensation.

The whole ‘tolerance’ thing is extremely patchy. That’s my point. San Francisco has always been bohemian far more than it has been ‘socialist’.

That’s why your psycho-whatsit history is just ringing completely false. It’s really not at all about catering to or coddling self-appointed ‘victims’.

No, that is not true at all.

We are still talking about two different things.

Admittedly, my historicfal knowledge of SF is far from complete. That said, I am now most comfortable in saying the majority of what I have written is correct.

Further, predicated on my own observations and those of native SF’ns who are far more familiar with the cultural and social history (and it was from their observations I based much of my remarks) I am most comfortable with how I see SF now.

SF is now and has been a place that for a long time has offered a pedestal for those who claim victim hood.

Lastly, the Hunter’s Point matters you speak of are not simply the result of a particular past. There are more current reasons (some purely social, some political that have hurt the area badly) that have kept Hunter’s Point a problem.

338 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:48:24pm

re: #337 researchok

Admittedly, my historicfal knowledge of SF is far from complete. That said, I am now most comfortable in saying the majority of what I have written is correct.

What you’ve written has been both vague and inaccurate.


Further, predicated on my own observations and those of native SF’ns who are far more familiar with the cultural and social history (and it was from their observations I based much of my remarks) I am most comfortable with how I see SF now.

If they didn’t tell you to read Caen, they did you a disservice. You really don’t have a handle on how SF is now. Honestly, you don’t. You are going to appear foolish to many people who do know the city if you repeat what you wrote tonight to them.

SF is now and has been a place that for a long time has offered a pedestal for those who claim victim hood.

That must be why they’ve so repeatedly and aggressively targeted the homeless. That must be why it took them decades to compensate people who’s property was seized in the Fillmore Street renewal.

You have come to your conclusion first, and are working backwards in order to find evidence for it.

Lastly, the Hunter’s Point matters you speak of are not simply the result of a particular past. There are more current reasons (some purely social, some political that have hurt the area badly) that have kept Hunter’s Point a problem.

Yes. That was my point, actually. It wasn’t a one-time event.

339 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:56:38pm

re: #337 researchok

What gives your opinion of the “psycho-social history of a region” credibility?

340 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:57:55pm

re: #339 prairiefire

What gives your opinion of the “psycho-social history of a region” credibility?

My qualifications as a behaviorist.

341 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:59:42pm

re: #340 researchok

They’re really not looking too impressive if this is an example of your work.

That you would even attempt to talk about the ‘evolution’ of an area while admitting you don’t actually know its history is just goddamn bizarre.

342 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:03:24pm

re: #338 Obdicut

What you’ve written has been both vague and inaccurate.

If they didn’t tell you to read Caen, they did you a disservice. You really don’t have a handle on how SF is now. Honestly, you don’t. You are going to appear foolish to many people who do know the city if you repeat what you wrote tonight to them.

That must be why they’ve so repeatedly and aggressively targeted the homeless. That must be why it took them decades to compensate people who’s property was seized in the Fillmore Street renewal.

You have come to your conclusion first, and are working backwards in order to find evidence for it.

Yes. That was my point, actually. It wasn’t a one-time event.

No, minority relations in SF are still germane.

After your last few comments I did call on of the gents I met with in SF to ask if my observations were off. I recalled your remarks to him.

They were incomplete, but not off.

I did ask him to write me with further clarification. He said he will.

As for my remarks as to why SF was different than the rest of California, he noted the ‘end of line’ and SF as a magnet for, shall we say more eccentric has been well documented by behaviorists for decades.

343 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:03:48pm

re: #341 Obdicut

They’re really not looking too impressive if this is an example of your work.

That you would even attempt to talk about the ‘evolution’ of an area while admitting you don’t actually know its history is just goddamn bizarre.

LOLOL

And your qualifications are?

344 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:12:15pm

re: #342 researchok

Dude, you’re relying on anecdotal research from your buddies in order to make this sweeping analysis of San Francisco’s social evolution. It’s embarrassing.

re: #343 researchok

I’ve read a ton of books on the history of San Francisco, taken oral history from scores of old-timers, and grew up there. And I’ve read Herb Caen, who was the single most important influence on San Francisco’s identity in the modern age. I’m someone who realizes that William Randolph Hearst ran the San Francisco Examiner.

It’s really hard to take you seriously when your only argument is that you’re an authority on the subject, especially right after you’ve said so many things that are just off.

345 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:23:38pm

Obdi, I’m curious.

Why would you want to make this exchange personal?

You know nothing of behavioral analysis, that is clear.

Further, why are you insisting this is only about my knowledge of SF history. It is not. I have noted that numerous times.

One need not be a historian to make behavioral observations.

My references were in part my own and in part those of others who are probably more familiar with SF history than even you are.

As for being taken seriously I can say with great certainty you are not qualified to make that assessment.

For example, why would I take your assessments seriously when you (carefully) misrepresented what John Roberts said about who was responsible for blocking judicial confirmations.

His remarks were quite clear as to who was to blame.

346 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:26:59pm

Obdi, might I suggest we take a breather?

I see no upside in beating each other up.

347 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:53:29pm

re: #340 researchok

My qualifications as a behaviorist.

Well, your writing makes no sense dude. I really can’t say anything more than that. You simply don’t make any sense

348 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 6:54:52pm

re: #319 Obdicut

You started off talking about history, you know.

Yes. Which you’re getting wrong, as well. That’s what I’m pointing out. You’re taking the aspect that was put on the city in the 1960’s and looking backwards at San Francisco’s past to make it fit that lens; it’s not the real story of how San Francisco evolved.


is this basically just more prism-of-Vietnam-omg-the-damn-hippies stuff?


i

349 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:15:18pm

re: #346 researchok

Obdi, might I suggest we take a breather?

I see no upside in beating each other up.

I’m sorry, man, but nothing you say is going to make me treat your caricatured view of San Francisco with respect.

350 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:16:06pm

re: #345 researchok

Wow— why am I making it personal— and then you bring up something entirely unrelated to attack me on.

That’s fucking weird.

351 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:21:03pm

Like I said, maybe it’s best we take a break.

That’s my suggestion. Better than attacking each other.

352 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:22:40pm

re: #351 researchok

Take all the breaks you want. My opinion is not going to change. What you’ve written is a caricature of San Francisco that doesn’t engage with the actual social or political history of San Francisco. That history is actually interesting. I’d suggest you read up on it.

353 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:24:08pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

is this basically just more prism-of-Vietnam-omg-the-damn-hippies stuff?

i

Sounds like more Michael savage to me.

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:35:06pm

I take a nap, and this happens?

I’m going to point out another tack here—regardless of San Francisco’s particular history or situation—anti-Israel crap in the same mode is happening all over the country, everywhere it can get a toe-hold, and especially on college campuses.

355 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:37:43pm

re: #352 Obdicut

Take all the breaks you want. My opinion is not going to change. What you’ve written is a caricature of San Francisco that doesn’t engage with the actual social or political history of San Francisco. That history is actually interesting. I’d suggest you read up on it.

I’m not asking to change your opinion.

I will post the letter I receive from the people I referred to earlier. Notwithstanding their expertise, I do not expect you to change your opinion at that point either.

Again, I will reiterate.

One need not be a historian to make behavioral observations.

Allow me to restate what was said earlier.

My references were in part my own and in part those of others who are probably more familiar with SF history than even you are.

As for being taken seriously I can say with great certainty you are not qualified to make that assessment.

You state my historical take is incorrect. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps not.

I can cite examples of your assessments as being incorrect. Thus, I am reluctant to take your interpretations at face value.

356 researchok  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 7:39:15pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

I take a nap, and this happens?

I’m going to point out another tack here—regardless of San Francisco’s particular history or situation—anti-Israel crap in the same mode is happening all over the country, everywhere it can get a toe-hold, and especially on college campuses.

Bad in Canada as well and getting worse. I read something on that recently.

In the UK and France things are even worse

357 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:15:24pm

re: #355 researchok

I can cite examples of your assessments as being incorrect. Thus, I am reluctant to take your interpretations at face value.

I can’t cite anything you said as correct. Mainly because you were so vague. What little you did actually say concretely was incorrect.

San Francisco has not placed victimhood on a pedestal. That’s talk-radio horsecrap.

358 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:23:36pm

Harvey Milk is a good example. He didn’t get elected because he was a victim. He got elected because he was a fighter, and refused to be portrayed as a victim. That’s why the gay rights movement in San Francisco has always been so strong; it’s a rejection of victimhood, not an endorsement of it.

Man, I miss it.

359 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 9:31:16pm

re: #342 researchok

As for my remarks as to why SF was different than the rest of California, he noted the ‘end of line’ and SF as a magnet for, shall we say more eccentric has been well documented by behaviorists for decades.

Can you provide any examples of this documentation, e.g. specific studies or papers in publications like the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis? Or books and articles written by behaviorists on the “social evolution” of San Francisco? It would help your argument tremendously if you could cite something beyond “because my friends and I said so” (just consider that if an AGW denier came here with that kind of debating method, they’d be - deservedly - mocked and downdinged to oblivion).

360 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 2:40:33am

Gobbledy gook regurgitated from radio shills, boring bullshit


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