Heritage Foundation to Boycott CPAC (or, Fear of a Gay Planet)

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In the latest bail-out from the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), the far-right creationist climate change denial organization known as the Heritage Foundation is joining the fundamentalist groups who are afraid of gay cooties.

Similar to last year’s CPAC, more than a half dozen groups say they won’t attend the three-day forum to protest the involvement of GOProud. Most of the groups are conservative Christian organizations such as the American Family Association or the Family Research Council.

But more surprising is that this year, the Heritage Foundation—which usually focuses more on fiscal and defense policy—also plans to sit out the conference, typically one of the biggest conservative draws of the year.

“We hope that CPAC will better define what they are about,” say Heritage’s vice president for communications, Mike Gonzalez, who said the decision was not directly linked to GOProud’s participation.

This puts the Heritage Foundation to the right of the John Birch Society, who are apparently still planning to attend as an “affiliate” of CPAC.

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224 comments
1 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:57:44am

Heritage Foundation is actually just pissed that GOProud wasn’t that into them.

2 S'latch  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:58:22am

Surely the John Birch Society will back out too, no?

3 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:59:47am

GOProud: proud to be rejected by every other member of the GOP.

4 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:00:12am

Will JBS influence increase with the absence of “still somewhat mianstream” orgs like the HF?

5 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:00:16am

re: #2 Lawrence Schmerel

Surely the John Birch Society will back out too, no?

No, they’ve finally made it into the big time and won’t back down now.

6 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:02:13am

nice big pup-tent you got there….

7 S'latch  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:02:54am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The John Birch Society sold out to a liberal group like the Conservative Political Action Conference. What is this world coming to?

8 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:07:06am

It’s nice to know that the Heritage Foundation “values” small government and individual rights. Typical crap by groupls like them. Whine that the left and others don’t care about the aforementioned by could care less about gays and lesbians having those rights.

9 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:07:55am

How is it the Heritage Foundation is a 401C nonprofit with a partisan agenda? Is this really The work of a charity?

/

10 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:08:58am

re: #3 iossarian

GOProud: proud to be rejected by every other member of the GOP.

God bless their determined little souls. Maybe everyone else will cancel, and CPAC will belong to the gay Republicans.

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:10:04am

re: #9 Jeff In Ohio

How is it the Heritage Foundation is a 401C nonprofit with a partisan agenda? Is this really The work of a charity?

/

I have a feeling this one is going to run a while…

12 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:10:09am

By the way, what’s up with the crazy right wing claims about CPAC? First we hear about whining about embracing gays and I read here the otehr day about Frank Gafferty or whatever his name is saying that the Muslim Brotherhood is infiltrating them. It seems to me that the big time nutjobs only want straight white Christians and think only they can be “true conservatives” whatever the hell that is since these guys are authortarians not conservatives.

13 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:11:03am

re: #11 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a feeling this one is going to run a while…

Stupid is the new black.

14 BongCrodny  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:11:46am

I’ll bet I could get millions of dollars from right-wing think tanks if I could just find a way to prove that gay people cause global warming.

15 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:13:53am

re: #14 BongCrodny

I’ll bet I could get millions of dollars from right-wing think tanks if I could just find a way to prove that gay people cause global warming.

How about if dead babies in trash cans is demonstrative that health care isn’t intestate commerce?

[Link: politicalcorrection.org…]

16 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:14:08am

re: #14 BongCrodny

I’ll bet I could get millions of dollars from right-wing think tanks if I could just find a way to prove that gay people cause global warming.

so many angles to choose from….friction perhaps?

//

17 Professor Chaos  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:19:10am

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

God bless their determined little souls. Maybe everyone else will cancel, and CPAC will belong to the gay Republicans.

I’ve heard claims of a gay agenda, but taking over CPAC? Who knew?

18 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:22:48am

Friend of mine asked Keith Finian who ran against and nearly beat Gerry Connolly here in Northern Va the past year for Congress about how his opposition to gay marriage on a ballot referendum a few years back was in any way consistent with his “support” for individual rights and small government. Finian apparently responded “I don’t understand the question.” I’m sorry but I will never take the right’s claims of being for individual rights seriously when they’re the ones who make opposition to gay marriage a major focus of getting their base out to vote. Not just gay marriage but other things like gays serving in the military and gay adoption too.

19 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:23:44am

re: #17 Girth

I’ve heard claims of a gay agenda, but taking over CPAC? Who knew?

The Islamic Supremacists.
/

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:24:00am

re: #17 Girth

I’ve heard claims of a gay agenda, but taking over CPAC? Who knew?

I’m sure not everyone else will leave. For some reason, I’m envisioning a group of old ladies, possibly representing ‘Conservative Quilters of America’ or something similar. They and the GOProuders can set up workshops, have a keynote, and send out for pizza, while watching reruns of Reagan speeches, and discussing tax cuts.

It actually sounds rather nicer than what was originally planned.

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:25:17am

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Islamic Supremacists.
/

The thick plotteneth.

22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:25:31am

re: #17 Girth

I’ve heard claims of a gay agenda, but taking over CPAC? Who knew?

And they’re working with the muslims! Beware the fashionable turbans and suicide belts!

//

23 bluecheese  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:25:35am
“We hope that CPAC will better define what they are about,” say Heritage’s vice president for communications, Mike Gonzalez, who said the decision was not directly linked to GOProud’s participation.

That’s lame. So why are they not participating?

I don’t get it

24 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:26:14am

I forget where I read or heard it that the Republican Party is supposed to be the party of inclusion. It sounds closer to the party of the fractious.

25 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:27:26am

How utterly lame. It’s 2011 and these cavemen are still out of touch with the gay community and society at large. One now has to wonder if CPAC will eventually capitulate and throw GOProud to the curb. I also wonder how “proud” the members of GOProud feel now considering the outright hysteria which has followed their inclusion. And this isn’t because of “gay marriage” at all. This hysteria is simply because they are gay.

26 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:28:13am

re: #21 Sergey Romanov

The thick plotteneth.

All is proceeding as the Black Robed Shadow Cabal has planned.

(I’m totally naming my college metal band that in my next life.)

27 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:28:43am

re: #25 Gus 802

How utterly lame. It’s 2011 and these cavemen are still out of touch with the gay community and society at large. One now has to wonder if CPAC will eventually capitulate and throw GOProud to the curb. I also wonder how “proud” the members of GOProud feel now considering the outright hysteria which has followed their inclusion. And this isn’t because of “gay marriage” at all. This hysteria is simply because they are gay.

Which I say because the current wingnut meme is to say “just because you are against gay marriage doesn’t mean you’re anti-gay.”

28 Professor Chaos  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:35:00am

re: #27 Gus 802

Which I say because the current wingnut meme is to say “just because you are against gay marriage doesn’t mean you’re anti-gay.”

“I have nothing against you, I just don’t think you should be able to do some things that I can. What’s so wrong about that?”

29 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:36:00am

I still don’t understand why someone would want to join a political party that hates them.

30 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:38:45am

re: #29 garhighway

I still don’t understand why someone would want to join a political party that hates them.

“We agree with 75% of what you say”
“Go sit in the corner and keep your mouth shut.”

31 M. Dubious  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:40:05am

re: #28 Girth

“I have nothing against you, I just don’t think you should be able to do some things that I can. What’s so wrong about that?”

Nothing. I get to sleep with my wife. You don’t.

32 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:40:25am

re: #29 garhighway

I still don’t understand why someone would want to join a political party that hates them.

Money. I think the bottom line with the GOProud members is that they are motivated mainly by, dare I say, greed. We used to call some of them guppys. They’re more interested in say, mining rights, than their own civil rights. I can understand those interests but they are primarily a free-market association made up of a primarily white gay male membership representing upper-middle class and higher interests.

33 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:41:45am

re: #31 harald

Nothing. I get to sleep with my wife. You don’t.

Wait just a sec…we don’t?
/ducking

34 M. Dubious  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:43:07am

re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wait just a sec…we don’t?
/ducking

Walked right into that one. Heh.

35 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:49:03am

re: #32 Gus 802

Money. I think the bottom line with the GOProud members is that they are motivated mainly by, dare I say, greed. We used to call some of them guppys. They’re more interested in say, mining rights, than their own civil rights. I can understand those interests but they are primarily a free-market association made up of a primarily white gay male membership representing upper-middle class and higher interests.

Yeah, I’ve always found it interesting how many fewer lesbians are Republicans than gay men. Its like gay male Republicans imagine they are only one notch away from having complete privilege and damnit they want it!

36 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:52:35am
37 M. Dubious  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:58:58am

Well, not all gay men care about marriage and adoption rights. I know one that doesn’t. And I have 5 openly gay friends. If we do the math, this means that statistically 20% can join the GOP with no conflict of interest! Heh.

38 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:03:28pm

re: #37 harald

Well, not all gay men care about marriage and adoption rights. I know one that doesn’t. And I have 5 openly gay friends. If we do the math, this means that statistically 20% can join the GOP with no conflict of interest! Heh.

Yes. But ask the one that doesn’t care about marriage rights how he will feel when his life partner is at his death bed in a hospital and is refused entry since he will not be considered a legal family member. Or when the hospital treats him like a stranger and not allowing him full knowledge of the current condition and care of his partner.

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:03:30pm

re: #37 harald

Well, not all gay men care about marriage and adoption rights. I know one that doesn’t. And I have 5 openly gay friends. If we do the math, this means that statistically 20% can join the GOP with no conflict of interest! Heh.

But the GOP isn’t that enthusiastic about Lawrence v. Texas either.

40 Slap  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:04:11pm

OT, but wanted to share this bit of sad news: bassist Mick Karn died earlier this week. If you never heard his work, you missed something very special and unique.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Cancer is a bastard.

41 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:05:13pm

OT: Did anyone else see this piece (I just ran across it today via the online CJR):

[Link: www.propublica.org…]

Basically, the guys at Merrill that were creating the crap CDOs that blew up their company were paying other guys in the firm to buy chunks of them. It’s the damndest thing I have ever seen.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:06:35pm

re: #37 harald

Well, not all gay men care about marriage and adoption rights. I know one that doesn’t. And I have 5 openly gay friends. If we do the math, this means that statistically 20% can join the GOP with no conflict of interest! Heh.

Not really. When you see people like Boehner trying to defend the American Family Research Council against charges of being a hate group, you’re seeing a hostility that goes well beyond marriage and adoption. If people feel that their identification with Republican stances and interests override that, they’re allowed, but that conflict of interest remains.

43 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:07:57pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Not really. When you see people like Boehner trying to defend the American Family Research Council against charges of being a hate group, you’re seeing a hostility that goes well beyond marriage and adoption. If people feel that their identification with Republican stances and interests override that, they’re allowed, but that conflict of interest remains.

For some strange reason I am reminded of the group “Queers for Palestine”.

44 M. Dubious  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:08:15pm

re: #38 Gus 802

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

Oh, absolutely. This is unjust. But sometimes we need to be reminded that homosexuals are not a homogenous group.

45 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:08:23pm

re: #40 Slap
Cancer is a bastard. I agree. I lost my mom to it a few years ago.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:10:12pm

re: #43 Gus 802

For some strange reason I am reminded of the group “Queers for Palestine”.

OK, the GOProuders are more rational than those guys!

47 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:10:37pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Not really. When you see people like Boehner trying to defend the American Family Research Council against charges of being a hate group, you’re seeing a hostility that goes well beyond marriage and adoption. If people feel that their identification with Republican stances and interests override that, they’re allowed, but that conflict of interest remains.

I keep seeing the statement that one can oppose gay marriage and not be a bigot. I suppose that could be true, although I might be able to make an argument against it, but it is certainly true that you can be opposed to gay marriage and truly be a bigot.

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:13:42pm

re: #47 wrenchwench

I keep seeing the statement that one can oppose gay marriage and not be a bigot. I suppose that could be true, although I might be able to make an argument against it, but it is certainly true that you can be opposed to gay marriage and truly be a bigot.

I do think that the statement is true, but as time goes by it will be a less and less probable statement. Many “old timers” simply can’t wrap their minds around the idea, and that’s natural IMHO. The concept of the right to same-sex marriage is quite recent.

49 M. Dubious  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:14:26pm

re: #43 Gus 802

Is it true that gay Palistinians flee to Israel?

50 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:14:47pm

re: #49 harald

Is it true that gay Palistinians flee to Israel?

Yes.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:17:18pm

re: #47 wrenchwench

I keep seeing the statement that one can oppose gay marriage and not be a bigot. I suppose that could be true, although I might be able to make an argument against it, but it is certainly true that you can be opposed to gay marriage and truly be a bigot.

People forget how far we’ve come in a fairly short time. There’s a much wider acceptance now of a whole range of gay rights. Although the hard-core haters (such as all those organizations listed by the SPLC) wish we’d criminalize and pathologize gay sex again, they know it’s unlikely.

The marriage issue has become some kind of a last stand for many people. Given the intense emotions it stirs, I’m reluctant to point and scream ‘bigot’ at anyone opposing it in good faith, but I will argue with them for as long as they’ll hold still, because I believe it’s incredibly important.

But while not everyone opposed to same-sex marriage is a bigot, I would agree that all anti-gay bigots are probably opposed to same-sex marriage.

I do see this rising meme you’re referring to. A lot.

52 schnapp  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:18:04pm

Heritage haven’t said that they are pulling out because of GOProud. [Link: www.slate.com…]

53 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:18:53pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

People forget how far we’ve come in a fairly short time. There’s a much wider acceptance now of a whole range of gay rights. Although the hard-core haters (such as all those organizations listed by the SPLC) wish we’d criminalize and pathologize gay sex again, they know it’s unlikely.

The marriage issue has become some kind of a last stand for many people. Given the intense emotions it stirs, I’m reluctant to point and scream ‘bigot’ at anyone opposing it in good faith, but I will argue with them for as long as they’ll hold still, because I believe it’s incredibly important.

But while not everyone opposed to same-sex marriage is a bigot, I would agree that all anti-gay bigots are probably opposed to same-sex marriage.

I do see this rising meme you’re referring to. A lot.

Right. Somehow one can’t see an anti-gay-bigot supporting gay marriage.

54 M. Dubious  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:20:13pm

re: #50 Gus 802

Yes.

Then I get the irony.

55 Slap  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:20:21pm

re: #47 wrenchwench

I keep seeing the statement that one can oppose gay marriage and not be a bigot. I suppose that could be true, although I might be able to make an argument against it, but it is certainly true that you can be opposed to gay marriage and truly be a bigot.

Help, I’m stuck in a pretzel.

Opposing equal treatment of a group of individuals based on - ideology? biology? legal behavior? - is not somehow based in bigotry?

Whew, that’s good to know.

Meanwhile, in other news, it’s also possible to deny women equal pay in the workplace and not be a sexist.

Pretzel solved! I think I am starting to understand….

(And just to be real clear — this is in response to the portion I bolded, not to the bright and brilliant Wrenchie.)

56 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:20:38pm

re: #53 Gus 802

I can see them tolerating it in one very specific set of circumstances - if the libertarianism triumphs and the state is no longer involved in any marriages, libertarians say that they’re OK with any marriage (which becomes basically a ceremony and a private contract).

57 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:22:41pm

re: #56 Sergey Romanov

I can see them tolerating it in one very specific set of circumstances - if the libertarianism triumphs and the state is no longer involved in any marriages, libertarians say that they’re OK with any marriage (which becomes basically a ceremony and a private contract).

I thought about that but then thought that it would require a rational bigot which doesn’t seem to be common practice. It could theoretically be a subset of a subset perhaps numbering 2.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:23:50pm

re: #55 Slap

Help, I’m stuck in a pretzel.

Opposing equal treatment of a group of individuals based on - ideology? biology? legal behavior? - is not somehow based in bigotry?

Marriage as traditionally defined is a marriage of a man and at least one woman. Those who would hold to that tradition are not necessarily bigots. In XIXth century I guess even an idea would not enter into most gay’s heads about a marriage. The new tradition is evolving right now that will probably replace the old one.

59 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:25:36pm

re: #57 Gus 802

I thought about that but then thought that it would require a rational bigot which doesn’t seem to be common practice. It could theoretically be a subset of a subset perhaps numbering 2.

I’ve actually seen it spouted by a Russian-American conservatarian in his LJ. He was all like, “let the state get out of the marriage business then everything is allowed; but until then the majority should prevail, heheheh”.

60 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:28:05pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

I’ll be honest. I do think it is bigoted to oppose gay marriage. After Loving marriage is considered a fundamental right in the United States. That doesn’t mean that holding a bigoted opinion makes someone a bad person, but I do think it makes them wrong. I have yet to see a non-bigoted argument put forward by equal marriage opponents. (outside of the theoretical lets burn the institution to the ground arguments).

61 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:28:35pm

I have no issue with gay marriage whatsoever. Marriage is in the end, a compact between a couple and society. There is no reasons two consenting adults should be precluded from entering a marriage.

Matrimony however, is a religious covenant. Religious congregations ought to be free to marry or not marry gays. Some will, some won’t. Some congregations accept mixed faith marriages, some do not.

As long as these congregations are free to do as they please, I have no issue with any of this.

62 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:29:08pm

re: #52 schnapp

Heritage haven’t said that they are pulling out because of GOProud. [Link: www.slate.com…]

What does this have to do with anything?

63 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:30:07pm

re: #61 researchok

As far as I know Catholic churches are not required to marry 2 Muslims or any 2 people they don’t want to marry. I think religion institutions will maintain their autonomy in this area as well.

64 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:31:31pm

re: #3 iossarian

GOProud: proud to be rejected by every other member of the GOP.

it’s almost as if GOProud is actually sincerely interested in outing bigotry in their party, good for them

65 Sionainn  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:34:42pm

re: #45 PhillyPretzel

Me, too. My grandmother two years ago and my mother in August. It sucks.

66 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:34:52pm

re: #61 researchok

I have no issue with gay marriage whatsoever. Marriage is in the end, a compact between a couple and society. There is no reasons two consenting adults should be precluded from entering a marriage.

Matrimony however, is a religious covenant. Religious congregations ought to be free to marry or not marry gays. Some will, some won’t. Some congregations accept mixed faith marriages, some do not.

As long as these congregations are free to do as they please, I have no issue with any of this.

I can live with that and it’s often been argued before. A private religious institution is protected under the Establishment Clause (or the 1st Amendment). However, that still doesn’t seem to calm the nerves of many gay marriage’s religious opponents. One could in theory also open a gay chapel in which only gay marriages are performed.

67 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:35:54pm

I’m getting the feeling that all of this is just posturing by the religious conservatives who are wanting the hate group Family Research Council’s (headed by white supremacist Tony Perkins) “Values Voters Summit” to replace CPAC as THE official Republican yearly convention - one where they control who gets to participate, and who have absolute control over the agenda.

68 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:36:57pm

re: #52 schnapp

That was illuminating. Not there last year either? And whole host of objections, including being against legalizing marijuana. I would disagree with that but it’s a legitimate stand for a conservative group.

69 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:38:21pm

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

That actually does sound very nice. (I AM a conservative quilter in point of fact!) And productive. I have a quilt now in blocks, just waiting to be sewn together.

70 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:38:28pm

re: #68 Rightwingconspirator

That was illuminating. Not there last year either? And whole host of objections, including being against legalizing marijuana. I would disagree with that but it’s a legitimate stand for a conservative group.

But what does that article have to do with the fact that they are not attending because they hate gays.

71 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:39:21pm

Here is what they’re missing out on;

Invited Speakers Include:

Gov. Haley Barbour*, Andrew Breitbart*, Arthur Brooks*, Liz Cheney*, Ann Coulter*, Gov. Mitch Daniels*, Sen. Jim DeMint, Hon. Newt Gingrich*, David Horowitz*, Hon. Mike Huckabee, Gov. Bobby Jindal, Wayne LaPierre*, Gov.-Elect Susana Martinez, Sen. Mitch McConnell*, Col. Ollie North (Ret.)*, Hon. Sarah Palin, Rep. Ron Paul*, Sen.-Elect Rand Paul, Gov. Tim Pawlenty*, Rep. Mike Pence, Gov. Rick Perry*, Hon. Mitt Romney*, Sen.-Elect Marco Rubio, Rep. Paul Ryan*, Hon. Rick Santorum*, Sen. John Thune* and many more!

* Indicates Confirmed Speaker

72 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:39:44pm

Of course it goes well beyond “gay marriage” as this video attests:

Blast From the Past: Remembering The May Day Prayer Rally
Submitted by Kyle on January 7, 2011 - 12:31pm

[…]

And while I am at it, why not repost Peter LaBarbera’s prayer of repentance for allowing “homosexual activists … to fulfill their wicked plan of turning America’s schools, public and sometimes private, into homosexuality promotion zones”:

If you go to the link you’ll also see the now infamous Theresa Cao.

73 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:40:12pm

re: #66 Gus 802

I can live with that and it’s often been argued before. A private religious institution is protected under the Establishment Clause (or the 1st Amendment). However, that still doesn’t seem to calm the nerves of many gay marriage’s religious opponents. One could in theory also open a gay chapel in which only gay marriages are performed.

Yes, I was careful to use the word ‘congregations’ as opposed to the more generic ‘churches’, etc.

It will be interesting to see if there will be legal challenges to those congregations who do choose to marry gays (as in the split of the Episcopalians, etc) or challenges from the gay community to congregations who choose not to marry gays.

The attempt to politicize religious marriage (for and against) will probably prove to be irresistible to many.

74 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:40:29pm

re: #65 Sionainn

Me, too. My grandmother two years ago and my mother in August. It sucks.

Me three; my Mom passed in April of Ovarian. It still hurts.

75 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:40:42pm

re: #70 Walter L. Newton
You may have missed the key paragraph
SNIP

It’s wrong, though, to add Heritage to the list of GOProud-squeamish groups. They told me in December that the decision was financial, and they say the same thing today. The trick that social conservatives are able to play is that there has long been unease among conservatives about the American Conservative Union in general and David Keene in particular. In December, the ACU didn’t comment on an IRS investigation of a “material diversion” of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Before that, Sarah Palin passed on the conference, in part, because the ACU hinted that it could take money for its support to Fed Ex in a legislative battle with UPS (you’ve probably heard of the “brown bailout” by now). That’s why some D.C. conservative groups balk at the ACU, and some social conservatives are exploiting that to make there seem like there’s more outrage over GOProud than there is. (There is some outrage, definitely.)

76 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:41:22pm

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

Marriage as traditionally defined is a marriage of a man and at least one woman. Those who would hold to that tradition are not necessarily bigots. In XIXth century I guess even an idea would not enter into most gay’s heads about a marriage. The new tradition is evolving right now that will probably replace the old one.

I think I have to add a significant nuance here. What I wrote pertains to private disagreement - like that of Obama. I think that those who actively resist it - by mounting campaigns or even by voting to overturn the marriage established by some legal means are most probably bigots.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:41:24pm

re: #60 sizzleRI

I’ll be honest. I do think it is bigoted to oppose gay marriage. After Loving marriage is considered a fundamental right in the United States. That doesn’t mean that holding a bigoted opinion makes someone a bad person, but I do think it makes them wrong. I have yet to see a non-bigoted argument put forward by equal marriage opponents. (outside of the theoretical lets burn the institution to the ground arguments).

I have to agree. I just try to stay out of the ‘are you saying I have to be a bigot if…’ discussion, which leads absolutely nowhere.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:42:34pm

re: #63 sizzleRI

As far as I know Catholic churches are not required to marry 2 Muslims or any 2 people they don’t want to marry. I think religion institutions will maintain their autonomy in this area as well.

Religious institutions are free to put all sorts of requirements on marriage. Always have been. Always will be.

79 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:42:45pm

re: #74 Surabaya Stew

Dragon_Lady has lost an uncle and a couple Aunts to cancer. It’s so sad. Very sorry for your loss. My Mom died of a massive infection, but 15 years later that time of year is tough.

80 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:44:02pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to agree. I just try to stay out of the ‘are you saying I have to be a bigot if…’ discussion, which leads absolutely nowhere.

I agree. I also prefer to think of it as holding a bigoted position than actually being a bigot. Obviously human beings are complicated and not any one thing so I don’t want to label the person, just the viewpoint.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:44:36pm

re: #66 Gus 802

I can live with that and it’s often been argued before. A private religious institution is protected under the Establishment Clause (or the 1st Amendment). However, that still doesn’t seem to calm the nerves of many gay marriage’s religious opponents. One could in theory also open a gay chapel in which only gay marriages are performed.

The situation on the ground in my neck of the woods, for a long time before the gay marriage debate really heated up, was that a couple would be considered married by their family and friends, their church or synagogue where the wedding was held, and by their employers.

The State of California, OTOH…

82 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:45:00pm

re: #75 Rightwingconspirator

You may have missed the key paragraph
SNIP

It’s wrong, though, to add Heritage to the list of GOProud-squeamish groups. They told me in December that the decision was financial, and they say the same thing today. The trick that social conservatives are able to play is that there has long been unease among conservatives about the American Conservative Union in general and David Keene in particular. In December, the ACU didn’t comment on an IRS investigation of a “material diversion” of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Before that, Sarah Palin passed on the conference, in part, because the ACU hinted that it could take money for its support to Fed Ex in a legislative battle with UPS (you’ve probably heard of the “brown bailout” by now). That’s why some D.C. conservative groups balk at the ACU, and some social conservatives are exploiting that to make there seem like there’s more outrage over GOProud than there is. (There is some outrage, definitely.)

Well then, are you saying the subject of this thread (Heritage Foundation to Boycott CPAC (or, Fear of a Gay Planet)) is incorrect?

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:45:37pm

re: #69 Crimsonfisted

That actually does sound very nice. (I AM a conservative quilter in point of fact!) And productive. I have a quilt now in blocks, just waiting to be sewn together.

So imagine hanging out with a bunch of other conservative quilters, and a bunch of nice young gay conservative activists, all stitching away…

Hey, can I attend? I’m not conservative, but I do want to learn to quilt.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:47:15pm

re: #73 researchok

Yes, I was careful to use the word ‘congregations’ as opposed to the more generic ‘churches’, etc.

It will be interesting to see if there will be legal challenges to those congregations who do choose to marry gays (as in the split of the Episcopalians, etc) or challenges from the gay community to congregations who choose not to marry gays.

The attempt to politicize religious marriage (for and against) will probably prove to be irresistible to many.

There have already been splits in the churches, as you point out, and will probably be more. Committment ceremonies opened a lot of cracks between factions.

85 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:47:20pm

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

I’m saying we have a clear denial with some fair supporting points. Hence seeing both sides was illuminating. I like seeing both sides of an issue.

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:48:23pm

re: #79 Rightwingconspirator

Dragon_Lady has lost an uncle and a couple Aunts to cancer. It’s so sad. Very sorry for your loss. My Mom died of a massive infection, but 15 years later that time of year is tough.

My MIL died of cancer this past fall. Been rough on everyone.

87 jc717  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:48:29pm

I highly recommend the book “Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party”

It’s amazing how many closeted homosexuals are at the forefront of the right wing. Just totally bizarre. Not to pull a Godwin, but it’d be like Jews leading the Nazis in the 1930s.

88 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:49:26pm

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Five bucks say that Cheney, DeMint, Gingrich, Huckabee, Palin, Perry, Santorum and Thune almost all will pull out of CPAC within the next couple of weeks to stay in good graces with the FRC/Value Voters group who are boycotting. Also, Coulter may be added to that list, since she was kicked out of last year’s Values Voters Summit because she had the gall to give a speech at a Log Cabin Republicans’ sponsored event.

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:50:08pm

re: #87 jc717

I highly recommend the book “Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party”

It’s amazing how many closeted homosexuals are at the forefront of the right wing. Just totally bizarre. Not to pull a Godwin, but it’d be like Jews leading the Nazis in the 1930s.

Well, the authors of Pink Swastika screed allege that mostly gays were leading the Nazis.

90 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:51:18pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m sure. Mom is well Mom. Irreplaceable. We are on the edge of our chairs with my MIL in and out of the ER with cardiac issues lately. First a emergency surgery for a pacemaker, next week a stent. Recalcitrant insurance clerks adding to the stress of course.

91 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:51:43pm

re: #73 researchok

Yes, I was careful to use the word ‘congregations’ as opposed to the more generic ‘churches’, etc.

It will be interesting to see if there will be legal challenges to those congregations who do choose to marry gays (as in the split of the Episcopalians, etc) or challenges from the gay community to congregations who choose not to marry gays.

The attempt to politicize religious marriage (for and against) will probably prove to be irresistible to many.

Legal challenges are part of the American fabric. I’m sure they will never end. There are already existing challenges as you point out with the Episcopalians.

As far as I can tell the ability to refuse gay marriages by a particular church is Constitutionally protected. Thus any challenge is stacked in their favor and much of the fear of “being forced to marry gays” is unfounded.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:53:46pm

re: #91 Gus 802

Legal challenges are part of the American fabric. I’m sure they will never end. There are already existing challenges as you point out with the Episcopalians.

As far as I can tell the ability to refuse gay marriages by a particular church is Constitutionally protected. Thus any challenge is stacked in their favor and much of the fear of “being forced to marry gays” is unfounded.

My father couldn’t marry in the Catholic church. I couldn’t have the rabbi I wanted at my wedding.

These are the breaks.

93 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:54:05pm

re: #88 RadicalModerate

Five bucks say that Cheney, DeMint, Gingrich, Huckabee, Palin, Perry, Santorum and Thune almost all will pull out of CPAC within the next couple of weeks to stay in good graces with the FRC/Value Voters group who are boycotting. Also, Coulter may be added to that list, since she was kicked out of last year’s Values Voters Summit because she had the gall to give a speech at a Log Cabin Republicans’ sponsored event.

WE’LL HAVE OUR OWN CONSERVATIVE CONVENTION, WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS!

94 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:54:22pm

It’s sort of like thinking “once they repeal DADT they’ll have drag queens prancing about in the USMC!”

95 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:55:13pm

re: #94 Gus 802

It’s sort of like thinking “once they repeal DADT they’ll have drag queens prancing about in the USMC!”

The Enterprise had those YEARS ago.

96 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:56:14pm

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

My father couldn’t marry in the Catholic church. I couldn’t have the rabbi I wanted at my wedding.

These are the breaks.

Yep. My brother almost didn’t get married in a Catholic church. His wife was Catholic but my brother told the priest he was an atheist. The priest refused at first but finally gave in. He wasn’t very happy though even though he had a right to refuse to perform the marriage.

97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:58:29pm

re: #94 Gus 802

It’s sort of like thinking “once they repeal DADT they’ll have drag queens prancing about in the USMC!”

I don’t think the military can complain about drag queens EVER after allowing Cher on a battleship to shoot a video :D


Also, Nicole Ritchie is a sleestak: Image: NicoleRichie.jpg

98 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:59:31pm

Wingnut jerks.

Anyway, I just learned that my friend J. was recently told by the U.S. SS that she doesn’t count as a member of her own family when she applied for aid for her disabled daughter. Although she is legally married to her spouse in California, since both she and her spouse are women, aid is to be denied. She’s the spouse that stays home and watches the young child so holding down a full time job is out of the question.

Taxation without representation, anyone?

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 12:59:48pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

Well, the authors of Pink Swastika screed allege that mostly gays were leading the Nazis.


it’s a shame that name is taken, it’d make a good punk band name

100 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:00:22pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

There have already been splits in the churches, as you point out, and will probably be more. Committment ceremonies opened a lot of cracks between factions.

Personally, I’d like to see congregations offer matrimony contracts for gay couple (there are many, many spiritually inclined straight and gays). That said, I also believe each congregation be allowed to plot it’s own course without fear of stigmatization.

As far as I am concerned, 99% of the problem is one of definitions.

Marriage is a legal term defining a contract between consenting adults that codifies the relationship to the state,

Matrimony is a religious covenant contract outside and ion addition to the legal/marital contract.

If people understood that, there would be far less opposition to gay marriage, O believe.

101 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:00:53pm

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WE’LL HAVE OUR OWN CONSERVATIVE CONVENTION, WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS!


They just move CPAC to a dive bar, hahaha

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:01:46pm

re: #98 eclectic infidel

Wingnut jerks.

Anyway, I just learned that my friend J. was recently told by the U.S. SS that she doesn’t count as a member of her own family when she applied for aid for her disabled daughter. Although she is legally married to her spouse in California, since both she and her spouse are women, aid is to be denied. She’s the spouse that stays home and watches the young child so holding down a full time job is out of the question.

Taxation without representation, anyone?

This is the shit that really pisses me off, and why I want to throw hands at the fools who go blah blah blah special rights

Children LITERALLY being hurt because of our backwards mumbo jumbo opposition to this

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:03:26pm

re: #100 researchok

Personally, I’d like to see congregations offer matrimony contracts for gay couple (there are many, many spiritually inclined straight and gays). That said, I also believe each congregation be allowed to plot it’s own course without fear of stigmatization.

As far as I am concerned, 99% of the problem is one of definitions.

Marriage is a legal term defining a contract between consenting adults that codifies the relationship to the state,

Matrimony is a religious covenant contract outside and ion addition to the legal/marital contract.

If people understood that, there would be far less opposition to gay marriage, O believe.

Of course! And that’s why the GOP will NEVER EVER make that distinction, at least not anytime where gay marriage is a political issue. Because it’s to their advantage to scare their base with the meme of the gays forcing churches to wed them

104 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:03:29pm

World net daily gets the exclusive interview….
Meet the House party crasher, the U.S. House, that is

“Literally if this question of the natural born citizenship, if this question does not get answered, then I am allowing a tyrannical dictator – the spirit of the anti-Christ, the new world order system that has their plans right this second to collapse the U.S. economy, and we know their plan, the new world order system’s plan is to literally destroy humanity,” she said.

She said “God made sure” that such a message “got out to every single American leader and every leader [now] knows the truth.

“He [Obama] has fought it not only for two years, not only has he fought it pre-election but historically all of his connections, every single connection [has been] blacked out.”

Her description of the day’s events was permeated with explanations of her belief that the God of the Bible is being abandoned by America, especially under Obama’s rule because of his leanings toward “one-world” endeavors, through the United Nations and other channels.

“It’s prophesied this new world order system will devastate America and the world, and Satan’s plan is to take as many people to hell with him as he can,” she said.

105 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:04:48pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

Well, the authors of Pink Swastika screed allege that mostly gays were leading the Nazis.

Given that the authors of “The Pink Swastika” (more specifically primary author, and SPLC-“hate group” member Scott Lively) is a ranking member of the American Family Association, what do you expect? The AFA has a long history of being anti-gay, as well as having racist and anti-Semitic views.

106 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:05:14pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

it’s a shame that name is taken, it’d make a good punk band name

I think it can still be “taken back”. It will also piss the bigots off ;-)

107 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:05:52pm

re: #101 WindUpBird

They just move CPAC to a dive bar, hahaha

Move that to a sex-themed Voyeur nightclub and you might have a deal.

//

108 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:06:56pm

re: #98 eclectic infidel

Wingnut jerks.

Anyway, I just learned that my friend J. was recently told by the U.S. SS that she doesn’t count as a member of her own family when she applied for aid for her disabled daughter. Although she is legally married to her spouse in California, since both she and her spouse are women, aid is to be denied. She’s the spouse that stays home and watches the young child so holding down a full time job is out of the question.

Taxation without representation, anyone?

This is what matters. This is why it is not some theoretical exercise, but its people’s lives.

109 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:08:15pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

it’s a shame that name is taken, it’d make a good punk band name

They can open for Black Robed Shadow Cabal.

110 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:08:22pm

re: #102 WindUpBird

This is the shit that really pisses me off, and why I want to throw hands at the fools who go blah blah blah special rights

Children LITERALLY being hurt because of our backwards mumbo jumbo opposition to this

Yup. Then there’s that dumbsh*t argument which states that a civil union will equal the playing field.

Makes me want to throw my flag out. Maybe I will.

Just a symbol anyway.

111 KingKenrod  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:08:41pm

re: #98 eclectic infidel

Wingnut jerks.

Anyway, I just learned that my friend J. was recently told by the U.S. SS that she doesn’t count as a member of her own family when she applied for aid for her disabled daughter. Although she is legally married to her spouse in California, since both she and her spouse are women, aid is to be denied. She’s the spouse that stays home and watches the young child so holding down a full time job is out of the question.

Taxation without representation, anyone?

I don’t understand what someone’s marriage status has to do with getting SS benefits, particularly is the woman has no income. It seems she would be at a disadvantage if the feds considered her married with her spouse’s income. She should be a shoo-in for max benefits if SS considers her single without income and the sole caregiver for a disable person.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:09:11pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

it’s a shame that name is taken, it’d make a good punk band name

There’s a neo-Nazi girl group that calls themselves Prussian Blue.

Sadly, I am not kidding.

113 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:09:13pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

World net daily gets the exclusive interview…
Meet the House party crasher, the U.S. House, that is

spit

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:09:53pm

re: #100 researchok

Personally, I’d like to see congregations offer matrimony contracts for gay couple (there are many, many spiritually inclined straight and gays). That said, I also believe each congregation be allowed to plot it’s own course without fear of stigmatization.

As far as I am concerned, 99% of the problem is one of definitions.

Marriage is a legal term defining a contract between consenting adults that codifies the relationship to the state,

Matrimony is a religious covenant contract outside and ion addition to the legal/marital contract.

If people understood that, there would be far less opposition to gay marriage, O believe.

My personal favorite anti-prop-8 t-shirt reads: OKAY, SO WHAT SACRAMENT ARE WE GOING TO LET THE STATE DEFINE NEXT?

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:10:59pm

re: #110 eclectic infidel

Yup. Then there’s that dumbsh*t argument which states that a civil union will equal the playing field.

Makes me want to throw my flag out. Maybe I will.

Just a symbol anyway.

Still stands for liberty. Even if there’s a long damn road to getting that for everyone.

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:11:02pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Move that to a sex-themed Voyeur nightclub and you might have a deal.

//


The disconnect is truly mindblowing sometimes. :D

“Yeah, you know, how are we going to work this 2012 strategy and leverage the homophobia of our terrified base to unseat Obama?”

“I dunno. We’ll think of something. another round! Check out the lesbians onstage! WHOOO!”

117 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:11:18pm

re: #113 albusteve

spit

I took a look at her blog, I think she’s probably a Moonie.

118 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:11:21pm

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a neo-Nazi girl group that calls themselves Prussian Blue.

Sadly, I am not kidding.

I know a guy who is waiting till they hit 18 so he can photoshop them into interracial porn scenes and then spam them at White Power sites.

119 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:11:26pm

re: #111 KingKenrod

I don’t understand what someone’s marriage status has to do with getting SS benefits, particularly is the woman has no income. It seems she would be at a disadvantage if the feds considered her married with her spouse’s income. She should be a shoo-in for max benefits if SS considers her single without income and the sole caregiver for a disable person.

She suspected discrimination down the road so she actually listed herself as the father. Well, the US SS didn’t buy it and according to them, she’s not a legal member of the family since her daughter didn’t come from her womb.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:11:36pm

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a neo-Nazi girl group that calls themselves Prussian Blue.

Sadly, I am not kidding.

Do they still play?

121 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:11:39pm

re: #100 researchok

Personally, I’d like to see congregations offer matrimony contracts for gay couple (there are many, many spiritually inclined straight and gays). That said, I also believe each congregation be allowed to plot it’s own course without fear of stigmatization.

As far as I am concerned, 99% of the problem is one of definitions.

Marriage is a legal term defining a contract between consenting adults that codifies the relationship to the state,

Matrimony is a religious covenant contract outside and ion addition to the legal/marital contract.

If people understood that, there would be far less opposition to gay marriage, O believe.

Opposition will continue until “Marriage” is no longer defined as a legal contract.

If you make “Marriage” a Religious/spiritual only event, then groups can decide who’s allowed to be married or not at their whim and leisure.

People would hate it, but if you want a quick and dirty solution, remove the term “Marriage” totally out of the equation and instead the government only recognizes “Civil Unions” period. That way it’s no longer a religious issue, but instead a private contact between two individuals and whatever benefits they may garner WRT property, hospital visitation rights, etc.

If they want to go to a Pastafarian and get “Married” in front of the FSM, they can do so all they want. But it’s not legally binding. Only the Civil Union has legally enforceable provisions.

Just a thought.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:12:13pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They can open for Black Robed Shadow Cabal.

hahaha totally

and the headliners can be Black Panther Speedwagon

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:12:28pm

re: #118 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know a guy who is waiting till they hit 18 so he can photoshop them into interracial porn scenes and then spam them at White Power sites.

My moral compass tried to add up all the angles of that, and blew out. I am now adrift.

124 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:13:20pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

My moral compass tried to add up all the angles of that, and blew out. I am now adrift.

I admit I LOL’d but I am a sick puppy…

125 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:13:24pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

I took a look at her blog, I think she’s probably a Moonie.

This one?

Theresa Cao, Christian Extremism, The New World Order & Dominion Theology

I was thinking La Rouche yesterday.

126 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:13:32pm

Prussian Blue

Do a search on ‘mom’ of Prussian Blue, a serious racist.

127 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:13:33pm

re: #75 Rightwingconspirator

Whether it’s GOProud or some other reason (and I wouldn’t be very trusting of what the Heritage Foundation says about it — they lie about many other things, remember), the simple fact is that Heritage is just as anti-gay as every other conservative think tank.

128 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:13:48pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

My moral compass tried to add up all the angles of that, and blew out. I am now adrift.

My original response was”… Well… Good luck with that then.”

129 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:14:06pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

My moral compass tried to add up all the angles of that, and blew out. I am now adrift.

I know! I laughed but it felt both wrong and right.

130 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:14:31pm

re: #127 Charles

Whether it’s GOProud or some other reason (and I wouldn’t be very trusting of what the Heritage Foundation says about it — they lie about many other things, remember), the simple fact is that Heritage is just as anti-gay as every other conservative think tank.

I wouldn’t totally trust what Weigel says about it either.

131 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:15:22pm

Conservative Think Tank is long ago an oxymoron.

132 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:15:37pm

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a neo-Nazi girl group that calls themselves Prussian Blue.

Sadly, I am not kidding.

Oh I know ALL ABOUT Prussian Blue, Prussian Blue is one of those weird fascinations my friends and I have, we’ve had a couple bar conversations about the possibility of an older, wiser Prussian Blue that grows up, resurfaces, rebels against their parents and becomes a furiously leftist Wendy O Williams thing, ranting into the mic about mind control, nazis and smashing televisions on stage

Nothing could give a band more punk cred than the history of them being indoctrinated white supremacist little blonde girls that escaped the neo nazis

(in actuality, they’ll probably just become racist moms and fade away)

133 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:15:46pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

Still stands for liberty. Even if there’s a long damn road to getting that for everyone.

Not if you’re queer, obviously. Or poor for that matter.

I’m just not much of a patriot. I’ve never accepted the notion that just because the U.S. engages in wars, that somehow, those troops are fighting for our freedoms. I think the only war in which that concept can even apply is the Second World War.

I don’t view our rights a citizens stemming from the blessing of an invisible super-creator-deity either.

When I see someone screaming platitudes about America, about our god given rights, I tend not to think very highly of that person’s beliefs.

Whatever.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:16:12pm

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

Do they still play?

Per Wiki, seems not.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:16:21pm

re: #118 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know a guy who is waiting till they hit 18 so he can photoshop them into interracial porn scenes and then spam them at White Power sites.

hahaha holy hell

I think they’re done though, they’ve been out of the media for years now, haven’t they?

136 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:17:17pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

World net daily gets the exclusive interview…
Meet the House party crasher, the U.S. House, that is

With Theresa Cao’s history of advocacy of violence, how in the hell did she get within a thousand feet of the Capitol Building, much less a seat in the gallery on the first official day of business?

[Link: blogs.alternet.org…]

137 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:17:32pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

hahaha holy hell

I think they’re done though, they’ve been out of the media for years now, haven’t they?

Yeah, this was about 5 years ago. Fell out of touch with the guy, but still remember him saying it.

138 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:18:03pm

re: #133 eclectic infidel

I’m okay with religion, but I absolutely don’t believe our rights come from a creator any more than my right to drive comes from Ford. :D

Look around, guys, it ain’t JESUS CHRIST putting you in jail on trumped up drug charges, sheesh

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:18:46pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, this was about 5 years ago. Fell out of touch with the guy, but still remember him saying it.

I only had one turn at Political Photoshopping wackiness, because it’s too much like work :D

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:19:54pm

re: #139 WindUpBird

I only had one turn at Political Photoshopping wackiness, because it’s too much like work :D

I still recall the phone conversation where I had to try to explain “Bert Is Evil” to my mother, because Bert was showing up on pro-bin-Laden posters in Karachi or someplace.

141 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:20:08pm

re: #125 Gus 802

Ah, I know where I’ve seen her before. She shows up at DC area Tea Parties and recites strange prayers.

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:21:01pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

I still recall the phone conversation where I had to try to explain “Bert Is Evil” to my mother, because Bert was showing up on pro-bin-Laden posters in Karachi or someplace.

oh nooo

143 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:21:08pm

OT but…

Another Freshman GOP wants his gov’t subsidized health car NOW!

His quote is especially entertaining.

144 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:22:55pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Ah, I know where I’ve seen her before. She shows up at DC area Tea Parties and recites strange prayers.

She’s out there.

145 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:23:12pm

re: #125 Gus 802

She’s a crackpot. Why on Earth is Bush’s photo up there. Or his daddy’s? Hey those two kicked off the wars that Obama is continuing now.

Wait…wait…both of ‘em are white and Republican. That must be it.

146 KingKenrod  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:23:56pm

re: #119 eclectic infidel

She suspected discrimination down the road so she actually listed herself as the father. Well, the US SS didn’t buy it and according to them, she’s not a legal member of the family since her daughter didn’t come from her womb.

That’s awful. I think the more people hear about stories like this, the more likely these injustices will be corrected down the road.

147 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:24:59pm

re: #143 Dreggas


Wow. He makes a great case for single-payer health care.

“What am I, not supposed to have health care?” he said. “It’s practicality. I’m not going to become a burden for the state because I don’t have health care, and God forbid I get into an accident and I can’t afford the operation. That can happen to anyone.”

Yes. Yes it can.

148 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:25:50pm

re: #147 Obdicut

can he possibly be that stupid? :D

149 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:26:14pm

re: #148 WindUpBird

can he possibly be that stupid? :D

do you need to ask?

150 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:26:20pm

re: #145 eclectic infidel

She’s a crackpot. Why on Earth is Bush’s photo up there. Or his daddy’s? Hey those two kicked off the wars that Obama is continuing now.

Wait…wait…both of ‘em are white and Republican. That must be it.

You would think Bush would be up there somewhere considering that he is part of the infamous “New World Order” conspiracy.

151 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:26:37pm

re: #44 harald

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

Oh, absolutely. This is unjust. But sometimes we need to be reminded that homosexuals are not a homogenous group.

But what does that have to do with anything?

152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:27:19pm

I have no idea how to respond to this

153 theheat  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:28:33pm

Once again the jackasses are proud to show their jackassery, in all its glory. This is quite obviously a martyr’s move, to show the GOP they’re steadfast in maintaining their own skewed standards.

But really, is the fact these people aren’t attending CPAC any kind of loss to the world? Perhaps they and the FRC can have a pity party somewhere at the ass end of the world. AFAIC, I would prefer they simply disappear from politics altogether. Their influence is toxic.

154 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:28:38pm

re: #133 eclectic infidel


War, war never changes.

155 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:29:01pm

re: #103 WindUpBird

Of course! And that’s why the GOP will NEVER EVER make that distinction, at least not anytime where gay marriage is a political issue. Because it’s to their advantage to scare their base with the meme of the gays forcing churches to wed them

The GOP shares part of the blame, to be sure.

Still, I haven’t seen the Dems or even leaders of the gay community make those distinctions. As a result, you have a solid misreading of what marriage/matrimony means across the board. The religious right is only exploiting an opening.

The vast majority of people who support civil unions of both conservative and more liberal persuasions would be pro marriage if the distinctions were properly explained (e.g., Clinton, Obama, et al.

156 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:29:39pm

re: #154 Idle Drifter

War, war never changes.

except for the Deathclaws, we didn’t have those before

also the enormous mutant murder crab men, those are new

157 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:31:39pm

re: #156 WindUpBird

except for the Deathclaws, we didn’t have those before

also the enormous mutant murder crab men, those are new

The weapons, armor, mutants, animals, and tactics may change but war stays the same. People killing people for whatever the reason but killing just the same. That’s why war never changes.

158 BishopX  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:31:43pm

re: #119 eclectic infidel

Can she adopt the daughter?


My non-birth mother adopted me back in 1994, which got her on my amended birth certificate (which should be enough for the SS admin).

159 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:32:40pm

re: #155 researchok

The GOP shares part of the blame, to be sure.

Still, I haven’t seen the Dems or even leaders of the gay community make those distinctions. As a result, you have a solid misreading of what marriage/matrimony means across the board. The religious right is only exploiting an opening.

The vast majority of people who support civil unions of both conservative and more liberal persuasions would be pro marriage if the distinctions were properly explained (e.g., Clinton, Obama, et al.

Actually I disagree, because that word “marriage” is something people grab onto. it’s not an intellectual distinction, it’s a superstitious, traditional, emotional distinction.

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:33:33pm

re: #157 Idle Drifter

The weapons, armor, mutants, animals, and tactics may change but war stays the same. People killing people for whatever the reason but killing just the same. That’s why war never changes.

The mutants may change, but the cosmic ballet goes on


Reminds me I should probably buy Fallout New Vegas and test out this purportedly insane video card I have

161 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:34:03pm

re: #155 researchok

Still, I haven’t seen the Dems or even leaders of the gay community make those distinctions.

They do, though.

[Link: www.hrc.org…]

162 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:34:09pm

If the GOP were able to put political pragmatism ahead of rabid ideology, they would find a lot of support in the gay community.

Many gays are high earners, as they have no families to distract them from pursuing a career. And as they also have a lot less interest in buying suburban homes in communities with good school systems, they have fewer tax exemptions and deductions, which would also make them more interested in lower overall taxes.

But the GOP is obsessed with a moral stance that is miles removed from gay interests or even a lot of non-gay Americans.

163 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:34:11pm

re: #159 WindUpBird

Actually I disagree, because that word “marriage” is something people grab onto. it’s not an intellectual distinction, it’s a superstitious, traditional, emotional distinction.

I’ve always thought it to be a legal distinction concerning siring proper heirs and land taxation. Yes, I’m somewhat serious, somewhat joking.

164 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:34:41pm

re: #157 Idle Drifter

The weapons, armor, mutants, animals, and tactics may change but war stays the same. People killing people for whatever the reason but killing just the same. That’s why war never changes.

also, is it war on the crab men’s side? Or is it just that they want some takeout? :D

“Dinner. Dinner never changes. It keeps wriggling and screaming as we crunch it between our pincers.”

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:35:20pm

re: #161 Obdicut

They do, though.

[Link: www.hrc.org…]

HRC are pretty great for being, whadda ya call it…honest and smart about this stuff

166 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:35:44pm

re: #159 WindUpBird

Actually I disagree, because that word “marriage” is something people grab onto. it’s not an intellectual distinction, it’s a superstitious, traditional, emotional distinction.


There is legal marriage and there is “holy matrimony”. To many people, the two are indistinguishable, but a truly neutral and secular state should make no special exemptions for the state of matrimony.

167 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:35:46pm

What bothers me about the GOP is that they use opposition to gay marriage as a means of getting votes. Look at 2004 and Bush’s reelection over Kerry. The gay marriage ban amendment that originated in the House was a carefully planned movement to get Republican voters out to vote in November. I wish Obama and other prominent Democrats were more progressive on this issue certainly but the Republicans rely on opposition to gay rights for support and votes. You have Republican leaders like Boehner defending groups like the AFA even though Tony Perkins himself is an obvious bigot. Bryan Fischer is another scumbag that is part of the appartatus that the GOP embraces. My hope is as people in my generation start to get in to power that gay rights become a smaller issue. I’ve had Republican and conservative friends whose disagreements with me are more economic based than social policy based.

168 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:35:55pm

re: #156 WindUpBird


also the enormous mutant murder crab men, those are new

I HATE THE FREAKING CRAB MEN!

169 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:36:04pm

re: #160 WindUpBird

The mutants may change, but the cosmic ballet goes on

Reminds me I should probably buy Fallout New Vegas and test out this purportedly insane video card I have

Yeah, I’m trying to upgrade myself. I watched my little brother play New Vegas over Christmas and I was both entertained and jealous.

170 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:36:08pm

re: #165 WindUpBird

They have some good writers, too. Very sober and respectful, rather than antagonistic. I like their work a lot.

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:36:10pm

re: #163 Idle Drifter

I’ve always thought it to be a legal distinction concerning siring proper heirs and land taxation. Yes, I’m somewhat serious, somewhat joking.

well, that’s really what the paperwork is for, right? Starting a corporate-like entity between two people, sharing resources.

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:36:23pm

re: #168 Dreggas

I HATE THE FREAKING CRAB MEN!

so do I o_o

173 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:36:45pm

Breaking news according to Yahoo. Package ignites in Washington, DC post office.
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

174 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:37:08pm

re: #155 researchok

The GOP shares part of the blame, to be sure.

Still, I haven’t seen the Dems or even leaders of the gay community make those distinctions. As a result, you have a solid misreading of what marriage/matrimony means across the board. The religious right is only exploiting an opening.

The vast majority of people who support civil unions of both conservative and more liberal persuasions would be pro marriage if the distinctions were properly explained (e.g., Clinton, Obama, et al.

That’s an interesting point, although I would make two observations:

A) “Democratic leaders” are faced with a bunch of lunatics who will repeatedly lie in order to get their policies approved. It’s not entirely surprising that they shy away from making somewhat technical distinctions between different abstract systems for recognizing social bonds when the opposition is shouting DEATH PANELS and GAY PEDOPHILES all the time.

B) “Gay leaders” are also not necessarily going to be all that keen on reassuring people in backwards religions that they are welcome to carry on with their bigoted ways, all the gays want is civil marriage. “Hey, it’s OK, Mohammed - you can still think I’m a pervert who will burn in hell. I just want the tax breaks.”

175 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:37:12pm

re: #79 Rightwingconspirator

Dragon_Lady has lost an uncle and a couple Aunts to cancer. It’s so sad. Very sorry for your loss. My Mom died of a massive infection, but 15 years later that time of year is tough.

Thank you for your kind words.

Now I’m dreading April 21 big time. Ironically, I was laid off a year earlier on the 20th, and my best friend won an emmy 2 days before she passed. Also, Mark Twain died 100 years before on the 21st of April!

My Mom, she sure had an interesting sense of timing….

176 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:37:28pm

re: #164 WindUpBird

also, is it war on the crab men’s side? Or is it just that they want some takeout? :D

“Dinner. Dinner never changes. It keeps wriggling and screaming as we crunch it between our pincers.”

I always looked at mud lurkers, death claws, and such to be more on the side of big game hunting.

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:37:39pm

re: #169 Idle Drifter

Yeah, I’m trying to upgrade myself. I watched my little brother play New Vegas over Christmas and I was both entertained and jealous.


The good news is Fallout’s tech is now old news so cheap video cards will make it fly *_*

178 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:38:09pm

re: #159 WindUpBird

Actually I disagree, because that word “marriage” is something people grab onto. it’s not an intellectual distinction, it’s a superstitious, traditional, emotional distinction.

The idea of matrimony is a religious one.

As time progressed, the state gave marriage a specific legal status.

Marriage is conflated with matrimony because for along time, matrimony- and then marriage (meaning a matrimony recognized by the state) was pretty much the sole purview of the religious institutions.

My point is there needs to be a real clarification of the distinctions. With that, an enormous amount of time and energy will wasted on a whole lot of stupid.

179 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:38:10pm

re: #176 Idle Drifter

I always looked at mud lurkers, death claws, and such to be more on the side of big game hunting.

i actually think I completed Fallout 3 without ever managing to kill a deathclaw!

180 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:38:50pm

re: #168 Dreggas

I HATE THE FREAKING CRAB MEN!

Wait till they close in and aim for the face.

181 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:38:52pm

re: #175 Surabaya Stew
I dread December because that is when my mom died.

182 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:38:58pm

More Conservative Groups Pulling Out Of CPAC — And Blasting Gay Inclusion

[…]

Dave Weigel argues that other factors are at play here — notably financial disputes with the leadership of CPAC’s organizers, the American Conservative Union. But these groups are simultaneously blasting CPAC for including gays.

Heritage has stated that the inclusion of GOProud was not directly related to it pulling out. But Heritage spokesman Mike Gonzalez still told WND:

“We believe in the traditional definition of the family,” Gonzalez explained. “We believe in defending the family against any threats that come against it. We’re not for gay marriage. We don’t think institutions that have existed for millennia can be done away with at the drop of a hat.”

On the other had, Brent Bozell III, head of the Media Research Center, specifically cited GOProud as a factor:

“We’ve been there 25 years, since our inception,” said Bozell. “To bring in a ‘gay’ group is a direct attack on social conservatives, and I can’t participate in that.”

[…]

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:39:46pm

re: #178 researchok

The idea of matrimony is a religious one.

As time progressed, the state gave marriage a specific legal status.

Marriage is conflated with matrimony because for along time, matrimony- and then marriage (meaning a matrimony recognized by the state) was pretty much the sole purview of the religious institutions.

My point is there needs to be a real clarification of the distinctions. With that, an enormous amount of time and energy will wasted on a whole lot of stupid.


They should be, but there won’t, I think the ship has sailed on trying to make that distinction translate to voters, there’s far too much pushback, far too many people who have a vested interest in making sure those distinctions are clouded beyond recognition to support anti-gay memes

184 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:40:05pm

re: #179 WindUpBird

i actually think I completed Fallout 3 without ever managing to kill a deathclaw!

Dart gun FTW!

185 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:40:20pm

The other thing that is ridiculous about the whole gay marriage violates the sanicity of marriage argument is that this is coming when divorce is at an all time high and even more curiously divorce rates are highest in the states that have approved gay marriage bans the most readily. I don’t think churches should be forced to marry gay copules but conversely I don’t think churches should be forced not to marry gay couples as there are churches out there who do accept gay marriage.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:40:30pm

re: #182 Gus 802

I’m in ur house, threatening ur family with my homogayness

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:40:55pm

re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dart gun FTW!

I never got that thing!

You know what made the game too easy? That sword flamethrower thing :D

188 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:41:00pm

re: #174 iossarian

Gay organizations do that ‘reassurance’ all the time. However, it’s not a convenient soundbite, so most people don’t hear it.

I do not believe there are large numbers of people who oppose gay marriage in the mistaken belief that it would require their church to marry gay people. I think there’s a rather small number who think that. Of that number, I think a small percentage would be reassured to learn that their churches would not have to do so; the rest, I believe, would still object to gays being considered ‘married’ by society in general.

189 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:41:01pm

re: #180 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wait till they close in and aim for the face.

Thanks, may have to reload Fallout 3 and actually try to finish it this time. I just become overwhelmed with all the things to do and managing the character and I still don’t get the targeting system in it (i just run and gun).

190 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:41:36pm

What constitutes the mind warping rationale to call inclusion of a gay group ‘attacking conservatism?’

191 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:41:43pm

re: #177 WindUpBird

The good news is Fallout’s tech is now old news so cheap video cards will make it fly *_*

It was always about the story line and game play, especially exploration, over graphics for me.

re: #179 WindUpBird

i actually think I completed Fallout 3 without ever managing to kill a deathclaw!

Those damn things attacked me in packs! Though getting them to fight albino scorpions or Enclave was a fun trick.

192 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:41:56pm

re: #182 Gus 802

We don’t think institutions that have existed for millennia can be done away with at the drop of a hat.

I agree, which is why I support the return of slavery, direct rule, human sacrifice and the total abolition of pairing stripes and spots.

193 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:42:06pm

re: #167 HappyWarrior

What bothers me about the GOP is that they use opposition to gay marriage as a means of getting votes. Look at 2004 and Bush’s reelection over Kerry. The gay marriage ban amendment that originated in the House was a carefully planned movement to get Republican voters out to vote in November. I wish Obama and other prominent Democrats were more progressive on this issue certainly but the Republicans rely on opposition to gay rights for support and votes. You have Republican leaders like Boehner defending groups like the AFA even though Tony Perkins himself is an obvious bigot. Bryan Fischer is another scumbag that is part of the appartatus that the GOP embraces. My hope is as people in my generation start to get in to power that gay rights become a smaller issue. I’ve had Republican and conservative friends whose disagreements with me are more economic based than social policy based.

Bush, 2004, gays and Ken Mehlman.

Such irony.

Next up. Matt Drudge.

194 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:42:41pm

re: #187 WindUpBird

I never got that thing!

You know what made the game too easy? That sword flamethrower thing :D

Shishkebab.

I refused to use it on principle.

I did use the silenced assault rifle from Pitt most of the time though.

195 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:42:54pm

re: #191 Idle Drifter

It was always about the story line and game play, especially exploration, over graphics for me.

re: #179 WindUpBird

Those damn things attacked me in packs! Though getting them to fight albino scorpions or Enclave was a fun trick.

yeah, storytelling and depth is king :D I’m a fan of the normalization of game graphics hardware, that we’ve sorta settled on this Xbox/PS3 level of tech for the near future. it’s all about content

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:43:49pm

re: #194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Shishkebab.

I refused to use it on principle.

I did use the silenced assault rifle from Pitt most of the time though.

hahah

I can’t remember what I used most of the game, I was fond of mines and bombs and assault rifles I remember

197 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:44:02pm

re: #178 researchok

There is clarification. See the extremely well-written, well-done clarification by the HRC above.

The problem is that people have to read those clarifications, and those who oppose gay marriage are not normally willing to educate themselves on the subject.

The most successful gay-rights campaigns, I believe, are the door-to-door ones that humanize gay people for those who feel uncomfortable with them. That’s why I like the HRC so much; they focus on bridge-building rather than confrontation, though they’re not shy about pointing out vicious bigotry. They just don’t assume homophobia means dislike of homosexuals; they assume it means that that person hasn’t had enough association with homosexuals to overcome a cultural antipathy.

198 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:44:21pm

re: #190 BigPapa

What constitutes the mind warping rationale to call inclusion of a gay group ‘attacking conservatism?’

I hit send before I finished. Meant to add:

“what a bunch of Nancy Boy conservatives!”

199 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:44:29pm

re: #183 WindUpBird

They should be, but there won’t, I think the ship has sailed on trying to make that distinction translate to voters, there’s far too much pushback, far too many people who have a vested interest in making sure those distinctions are clouded beyond recognition to support anti-gay memes

Sailed of not, that ship has to be turned around.

No segment of society can be marginalized any more than a segment of society can be privileged.

Further, no segment of society can impose it’s will on another and no segment of society ought to be allowed to restrain other groups from engaging in lawful and non biased activities.

200 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:44:48pm

Hungry and out of work? Clearly the cause is gay marriage.

//

201 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:45:31pm

Dammit, I like their food too

Chick-fil-A Partners With Rabid Anti-Gay Group

The Pennsylvania Family Institute has blasted gay marriage in a number of other ways, too. They’ve argued that calling committed same-sex couples married is like calling the tail of a dog a leg. They’ve said that when Judge Vaughn Walker ruled Proposition 8 unconstitutional, that human civilization took a direct hit. They’ve suggested that discriminating against same-sex couples is perfectly acceptable, because same-sex couples weren’t biologically meant to be together. And they’ve said that same-sex marriage threatens children, hurts families, and punishes all of society by caving in to components of a radical sexual revolution.

And if you’re spending money on Chick-fil-A sandwiches, you’re helping the Pennsylvania Family Institute deliver this message.

202 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:45:37pm

re: #196 WindUpBird

hahah

I can’t remember what I used most of the game, I was fond of mines and bombs and assault rifles I remember

I’d reverse pick pocket hand grenades and land mines on all sorts of enemies. The Chinese Stealth Suit with 100 on Sneak made it too easy, but fun!

203 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:45:51pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Bush, 2004, gays and Ken Mehlman.

Such irony.

Next up. Matt Drudge.


I hope there comes a time where Republican leaders will admit like the segerationists will admit that they used hatred of gays to get elected like the former did with blacks.

204 FriendsofHummus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:47:05pm

re: #201 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dammit, I like their food too

Chick-fil-A Partners With Rabid Anti-Gay Group

Agh, I knew they were really Christian which is their right of course but partnering up with a group like htis is really lame.

205 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:47:11pm

re: #197 Obdicut

There is clarification. See the extremely well-written, well-done clarification by the HRC above.

The problem is that people have to read those clarifications, and those who oppose gay marriage are not normally willing to educate themselves on the subject.

The most successful gay-rights campaigns, I believe, are the door-to-door ones that humanize gay people for those who feel uncomfortable with them. That’s why I like the HRC so much; they focus on bridge-building rather than confrontation, though they’re not shy about pointing out vicious bigotry. They just don’t assume homophobia means dislike of homosexuals; they assume it means that that person hasn’t had enough association with homosexuals to overcome a cultural antipathy.

On that I absolutely agree. The most effective way to reach people is across the kitchen table.

I read once that the people who risked their lives for Jews were not the university professors or philosophers, but rather, their neighbors, those who knew them best.

Speaks volumes.

206 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:47:17pm

re: #196 WindUpBird

hahah

I can’t remember what I used most of the game, I was fond of mines and bombs and assault rifles I remember

The Vault Wiki for all your Fallout needs.

207 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:47:46pm

re: #168 Dreggas

I HATE THE FREAKING CRAB MEN!

But they have to rely on the up-close kill. It’s not like they can actually hold firearms. Right?

208 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:48:41pm

re: #207 eclectic infidel

But they have to rely on the up-close kill. It’s not like they can actually hold firearms. Right?

The evolved versions had a sonic attack.

209 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:48:48pm

re: #202 Idle Drifter

I’d reverse pick pocket hand grenades and land mines on all sorts of enemies. The Chinese Stealth Suit with 100 on Sneak made it too easy, but fun!

Okay, I NEVER GOT STEALTH to work right, no matter what I did, it was just…

….


oh the stealth suit, right *_*

210 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:50:30pm

re: #168 Dreggas

I HATE THE FREAKING CRAB MEN!

211 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:51:58pm

re: #205 researchok

I read once that the people who risked their lives for Jews were not the university professors or philosophers, but rather, their neighbors, those who knew them best.

I like the sentiment, but this is a little bit off— mainly because at first so many of those university professors did help Jews, because they were their co-workers and friends. Quickly, however, the Nazis took over the universities and those professors that remained were the worst of the Quislings.

I think the important part of what you’re saying rings very true though; it wasn’t because they were university professors that they helped Jews, but out of friendship for colleagues. The same was done all over Germany and Poland by individuals in small, quiet heroic acts.

Also, we shouldn’t forget the White Rose.

212 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:52:01pm

Back later.

213 researchok  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:56:45pm

re: #211 Obdicut

I like the sentiment, but this is a little bit off— mainly because at first so many of those university professors did help Jews, because they were their co-workers and friends. Quickly, however, the Nazis took over the universities and those professors that remained were the worst of the Quislings.

I think the important part of what you’re saying rings very true though; it wasn’t because they were university professors that they helped Jews, but out of friendship for colleagues. The same was done all over Germany and Poland by individuals in small, quiet heroic acts.

Also, we shouldn’t forget the White Rose.

The observation was meant to be more sweeping.

The Holocaust Memorial in Israel for example, recognizes the vast number of gentiles who aided Jews were mostly ‘regular folk’.

214 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:57:31pm

re: #132 WindUpBird

Oh I know ALL ABOUT Prussian Blue, Prussian Blue is one of those weird fascinations my friends and I have, we’ve had a couple bar conversations about the possibility of an older, wiser Prussian Blue that grows up, resurfaces, rebels against their parents and becomes a furiously leftist Wendy O Williams thing, ranting into the mic about mind control, nazis and smashing televisions on stage

Nothing could give a band more punk cred than the history of them being indoctrinated white supremacist little blonde girls that escaped the neo nazis

(in actuality, they’ll probably just become racist moms and fade away)

I don’t know, they look pretty empty and soulless at this point, but it all rests on their ability to cognate the level of abuse that’s been inflicted on them.

I put the odds at 50/50, and I’m intimately familiar with what this kind of failure looks like My half brother was physically and mentally abused by his racist piece of shit step-dad while his mom watched and encouraged. Now he’s an alcoholic wreck who’s wife left, has abandoned his own kids, probably has cirrhosis because he’s literally jaundiced and thinks his UI checks are being held up by “the ni**er in the White House.” Fucking tragic.

215 Slap  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:59:08pm

re: #197 Obdicut

They just don’t assume homophobia means dislike of homosexuals; they assume it means that that person hasn’t had enough association with homosexuals to overcome a cultural antipathy.

Right there.

This is a universal truth, IMO. For most genuinely decent people (and I do believe that most folks, at their core, meet that description) who are “uncomfortable” with gay people, Muslim people, etc., it’s a matter of under-exposure. There will always be people who are just determined to be hateful, and one can’t really do much other than attempt to marginalize them — but given one-to-one real interaction, most good folks tend to have variations of the “wow, they weren’t anything at all like I expected” response.

We need more bridge builders.

216 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:59:33pm

re: #213 researchok

The observation was meant to be more sweeping.

The Holocaust Memorial in Israel for example, recognizes the vast number of gentiles who aided Jews were mostly ‘regular folk’.

Well, the majority of any vast number of gentiles are going to be regular folk. I’m trying to say that when the university professors and philosophers did help out, it wasn’t from the basis of intellectualism in most cases (the White Rose excepted), but out of the same basic human decency that was inspiring farmers and shopkeepers to do so.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:59:47pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

I don’t know, they look pretty empty and soulless at this point, but it all rests on their ability to cognate the level of abuse that’s been inflicted on them.

I put the odds at 50/50, and I’m intimately familiar with what this kind of failure looks like My half brother was physically and mentally abused by his racist piece of shit step-dad while his mom watched and encouraged. Now he’s an alcoholic wreck who’s wife left, has abandoned his own kids, probably has cirrhosis because he’s literally jaundiced and thinks his UI checks are being held up by “the ni**er in the White House.” Fucking tragic.

Yes, Obama is keeping his checks in a little pile tucked under the planning calender on his desk, and waiting to see how long it will be before this guy explodes.

/

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 2:03:33pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

I don’t know, they look pretty empty and soulless at this point, but it all rests on their ability to cognate the level of abuse that’s been inflicted on them.

I put the odds at 50/50, and I’m intimately familiar with what this kind of failure looks like My half brother was physically and mentally abused by his racist piece of shit step-dad while his mom watched and encouraged. Now he’s an alcoholic wreck who’s wife left, has abandoned his own kids, probably has cirrhosis because he’s literally jaundiced and thinks his UI checks are being held up by “the ni**er in the White House.” Fucking tragic.


yow :(

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 2:15:53pm

re: #216 Obdicut

Well, the majority of any vast number of gentiles are going to be regular folk. I’m trying to say that when the university professors and philosophers did help out, it wasn’t from the basis of intellectualism in most cases (the White Rose excepted), but out of the same basic human decency that was inspiring farmers and shopkeepers to do so.


I don’t really know if knowledge of Jews really helped. I mean, it’s a nice hypothesis and all. But quite a lot of neighbors (and there’s a book named liked that) took opportunity to enrich themselves on the Jews’ property.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 2:18:20pm

re: #216 Obdicut

Well, the majority of any vast number of gentiles are going to be regular folk. I’m trying to say that when the university professors and philosophers did help out, it wasn’t from the basis of intellectualism in most cases (the White Rose excepted), but out of the same basic human decency that was inspiring farmers and shopkeepers to do so.


I.e. I agree with you about the basic decency, but I’m not sure about the correlation between knowing someone personally and empathy - it sure makes sense, but it’s just a hypothesis.

221 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 2:18:48pm

re: #219 Sergey Romanov

That’s true. And a lot of university professors glad to see Jewish professors forced out so that they could take their positions.

I wasn’t trying to make the hypothesis that everyone with a Jewish neighbor helped them, but that, in many cases, the basis for helping them was the basic human spirit of helping out someone you know who is in trouble.

Hell, if everyone who had a Jewish neighbor or friend had refused to go along with the Nazis, the Nazis would have never gotten anywhere.

222 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 2:23:56pm

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

It’d certainly be hard to get reliable on data on the best way to reduce bigotry and increase support for rights— especially while preserving the privacy of the voting booth.

But I think the situation of Jews in Germany and gays in the US is distinctly different. Yes, in both cases, you have bigots arrayed against them and cynical politicians using that bigotry for political power. But I think a lot of ordinary people’s phobia of gays really is based in ignorance. Jews in Germany, on the other hand, were attacked highly from a point of resentment— that Jews were exploiting the Germans economically and that Jewish success was on the backs of Christian Germans.

There is a small amount of that in the whole “Gay hollywood agenda” thing in the US, but I think the difference a substantial one. The persecution of the Jews in Germany included a lot of prohibitions against holding particular jobs, for example.

223 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 2:26:33pm

re: #222 Obdicut

Thanks, that’s the important distinction indeed.

224 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 9, 2011 4:16:37am

re: #211 Obdicut

I like the sentiment, but this is a little bit off— mainly because at first so many of those university professors did help Jews, because they were their co-workers and friends. Quickly, however, the Nazis took over the universities and those professors that remained were the worst of the Quislings.

I think the important part of what you’re saying rings very true though; it wasn’t because they were university professors that they helped Jews, but out of friendship for colleagues. The same was done all over Germany and Poland by individuals in small, quiet heroic acts.

Also, we shouldn’t forget the White Rose.

Ugh. I am more of an Edelweiss Pirates fan myself. If you read the White Rose leaflets, you will see that one of the main reasons they opposed the Nazi regime was because Germany was losing the war.

And careful to lump all German universities together as far as nazification goes. Of course, in due time everything was streamlined (“Gleichschaltung”), but some universities were deep brown strongholds early on even before 1933 while others held out quite a while (some of that having to do with the job laws you mentioned which at first had exceptions for WWI veterans, when the Nazis still had to pander a little to their conservative coalition partners).


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