Arizona Rep. Giffords Shot, Several Others Killed

US News • Views: 47,459

Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has been shot at a public event. Several others were also shot, and at least five people are dead. At last report, Congresswoman Giffords was still alive but in surgery…

UPDATE at 1/8/11 12:13:01 pm:

Giffords was one of the Democrats listed on this map/enemies list posted by Sarah Palin’s PAC, with gunsights indicating the location of their enemies:

According to reports on Twitter, Palin has deleted this map and others like it from her Facebook page.

UPDATE at 1/8/11 12:58:04 pm:

The Associated Press reports that the gunman’s name is Jared Laughner…

UPDATE at 1/8/11 1:07:19 pm:

The latest news is that Rep. Giffords is alive and responding to commands; the surgeon says she was “shot through and through the head.”

The only confirmed death at this time is a 9-year old girl.

UPDATE at 1/8/11 1:15:14 pm:

This is probably the shooter’s YouTube page; it looks like the AP spelled his last name wrong: Jared Lee Loughner.

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815 comments
1 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:08:47pm

[Link: www.kold.com...]

Click on the "Streaming Live" banner at the top for local coverage.

2 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:09:16pm

Also good stream here: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

3 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:10:09pm

20 minutes until the news conference

4 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:10:22pm

NPR's link:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

For both herself and the good of the country, I really hope she pulls through.

It should be stressed: She is/was a moderate.

5 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:10:46pm

Giffords alive: in surgery.[Link: www.kpho.com...]

6 Locker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:11:09pm

Red State is already saying the left is using this for political reasons.

7 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:11:20pm

CNN has a store employee on, he saw her moving on the stretcher. A hopeful sign.

8 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:11:46pm

Check for updates.

9 Locker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:11:50pm

re: #4 Obdicut

NPR's link:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

For both herself and the good of the country, I really hope she pulls through.

It should be stressed: She is/was a moderate.

Yea she is a blue dog.. or considered one.

10 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:11:50pm

Palin on Facebook
[Link: [Link: www.facebook.com...]...]

Quick, before the comments are scrubbed...

11 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:11:59pm

re: #6 Locker

Red State is already saying the left is using this for political reasons.

Are they? So she was shot because he didn't like blonds, I suppose.

12 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:12:51pm

re: #10 webevintage

Palin on Facebook
[Link: [Link:

13 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:13:16pm

MSNBC says that a federal judge died at the scene.

Again, Sharon Angle, "second amendment solution" provider.

Sarah Palin, "don't retreat, reload."

Michelle Bachman wanted people "armed and dangerous."

What the fuck is wrong with these people? At least one of the people shot today was a child.

14 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:13:20pm

re: #6 Locker

Red State is already saying the left is using this for political reasons.

Because a member of Congress getting shot in the head at a political event isn't political. WTF?

15 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:13:24pm

re: #10 webevintage


Wow, they cannot keep up. For once.

16 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:13:54pm

Huffpo has a good feed too.

3:05 PM ET MSNBC: Federal Judge Shot

MSNBC reports that a federal judge was shot at the scene, and may have been killed, but the latter is unconfirmed.


[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:14:18pm

Oh hell.

What a horrible thing.

18 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:14:32pm

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

MSNBC says that a federal judge died at the scene.

Again, Sharon Angle, "second amendment solution" provider.

Sarah Palin, "don't retreat, reload."

Michelle Bachman wanted people "armed and dangerous."

What the fuck is wrong with these people? At least one of the people shot today was a child.

Lots of info coming very fast. Didn't mean to step on you.

19 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:10pm

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

Sarah Palin, "don't retreat, reload."

And Giffords was one of Caribou Barbie's "Take Back the 20" targets:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

She'd already endured vandalism to her office after her health care vote, according to MSNBC:

MSNBC Video
20 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:18pm

The Atlantic with constant updates.

21 insanity police  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:24pm

Prayers for all the victims. This is a horrendous tragedy.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:26pm

re: #6 Locker

Red State is already saying the left is using this for political reasons.

Yeah, well, they can bite my lefty ass.

23 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:33pm

Scrubbing her own record. Has she no integrity? I thought she was a tireless fighter that wouldn't let "political correctness" pollute her ideology.

24 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:37pm

Interesting... from a 01-06-2011 diary at KOS...

Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Coincidence?

25 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:15:41pm

I guess that person did not think a letter to the editor was enough.

26 Locker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:16:43pm

re: #10 webevintage

Palin on Facebook
[Link: [Link: www.facebook.com...]...]

Quick, before the comments are scrubbed...

They are already scrubbed. You can see tons have already been removed to make Sarah look like a popular and caring politician.

27 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:16:57pm

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... from a 01-06-2011 diary at KOS...

Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Coincidence?

Grasping at straws.

28 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:17:09pm

This morning, in an unspeakable tragedy, a number of Americans were shot in Tuscon, Arizona, at a constituent meeting with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. And while we are continuing to receive information, we know that some have passed away, and that Representative Giffords is gravely wounded.

We do not yet have all the answers. What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society. I ask all Americans to join me and Michelle in keeping Representative Giffords, the victims of this tragedy, and their families in our prayers. - Barack Obama

29 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:17:13pm

Violence has become a common currency.

From VA Tech to Columbine to special interest groups, the tie that binds is the narcissistic belief that violence can be called for as a legitimate form of expression for those who choose that course of action.

The trend to violence has been escalating and will get worse before it gets better,

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:17:24pm

I gotta go to the bank. BBIAB.

Praying like crazy for the living and the dead.

31 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:04pm

re: #27 Amory Blaine

Grasping at straws.

Looking in a mirror?

32 Locker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:07pm

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Asshole

33 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:12pm

KOLD is talking to Giffords' rabbi right now.

34 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:17pm

Palin should have used something else as markers. Dots perhaps.

35 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:27pm

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Coincidence?

Nah. Just a desperate attempt to invoke the Magical Balance Fairy.

36 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:48pm

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

37 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:50pm

re: #26 Locker

They are already scrubbed. You can see tons have already been removed to make Sarah look like a popular and caring politician.

Yep, and her sycophants keeps saying "she's still alive!" like that makes a fucking difference.

38 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:18:56pm
The Capitol Police Department has no evidence that might suggest why a shooter in Arizona open-fired on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Senate Sergeant at Arms Terry Gainer told POLITICO.

"We are all trying to ascertain motive at this time," Gainer told POLITICO in an email.

Capitol officials have been closely watching threats against members of Congress, which increased by 300 percent in the first half of this year during the health care debate, Gainer said earlier this year.

The FBI investigated at least 236 threats against members in the last decade, according to FBI files obtained by POLITICO through the Freedom of Information Act.

39 kirkspencer  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:19:21pm

I think the 48 hour rule is worth applying here. Some people died, but we don't know who. Some people are in the hospital, of which some are in critical condition, but we don't know who.

And they captured the shooter at the scene, but we don't know who it is yet.

Lots of "don't knows" means I'll wait before jumping.

40 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:19:36pm

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Yes of course. Shall we mine the whole net for every red hot rhetorical slap at her? Must be thousands.

41 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:19:38pm

Daily Dish now Live-blogging.

42 Ericus58  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:20:47pm

re: #27 Amory Blaine

Grasping at straws.

To be fair, since at this point it's all speculation why not post it all?
Or should we observe the 24 hour rule only if it doesn't provide points for the opposing side?

We should be waiting for law enforcement facts as to the shooter and possible connections/motives as they are relayed.

43 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:20:48pm

re: #40 Rightwingconspirator

Yes of course. Shall we mine the whole net for every red hot rhetorical slap at her? Must be thousands.

Walter cut and pasted that from Palin's facebook page.

44 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:20:56pm

re: #41 HAL2010

This guy Rayle, seems a little odd. He previously told Gawker we helped hold the attacker down. Now he's providing CPR>

45 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:21:34pm

3.23 pm. Pronounced dead.


Its official.

46 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:21:41pm

KOLD is reporting that a similar event to Giffords' "Congress on Your Corner", "Council on Your Corner", has been canceled in Oral Valley.

47 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:21:41pm

Dangerous rhetoric is one thing. A terrible thing. Grabbing a gun and acting on your rage is a whole 'nother level of despicable violence.

48 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:21:52pm

re: #40 Rightwingconspirator

Yes of course. Shall we mine the whole net for every red hot rhetorical slap at her? Must be thousands.

I would read some of Blue Boys comment in the comment section... all this rage was just yesterday... read about his suicide attempt... Oh... by the way... I got this link from the NPR website...

I'm not saying this guy had anything to do with anything in regards to this incident.

We don't know nothing about the motivations behind this shooting.

49 Meitantei  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:21:57pm

You have to admit, one does have to worry about a "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" moment.

50 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:22:37pm

re: #32 Locker

He probably isn't a asshole in real life, he just portrays one on the internet.

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:22:41pm

re: #45 HAL2010

3.23 pm. Pronounced dead.


Its official.

Where, please?

52 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:22:48pm

re: #42 Ericus58

To be fair, since at this point it's all speculation why not post it all?
Or should we observe the 24 hour rule only if it doesn't provide points for the opposing side?

We should be waiting for law enforcement facts as to the shooter and possible connections/motives as they are relayed.

True. Good point.

53 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:22:50pm

So angry right now...

Odds that Fox points out that Palin literally targeted this woman: 0%

54 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:07pm

re: #49 Meitantei

You have to admit, one does have to worry about a "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" moment.

You need to make the reference a little less ambiguous.

55 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:08pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

Walter cut and pasted that from Palin's facebook page.

I got the link to that diary from the comments below the NPR article on this shooting.

And what's the problem. Isn't any different then all the speculation that has been going on in this thread and the last thread. Shoe on the other foot... doesn't fit to well... does it?

56 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:10pm

re: #45 HAL2010

3.23 pm. Pronounced dead.

Its official.

It's not official when you get it from Andrew Sullivan.

The press conference is in 8 minutes.

57 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:19pm

re: #27 Amory Blaine

Grasping at straws.

ummm...i believe he was making a point about speculation, not actually accusing them of contributing to this terrible event.

58 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:27pm

re: #51 EmmmieG

Daily Dish.

59 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:55pm

I guess we have a lot more in common with the Iraqi politics than we'd like to admit.

Somthing to think about.

60 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:23:59pm

re: #57 Aceofwhat?

ummm...i believe he was making a point about speculation, not actually accusing them of contributing to this terrible event.

Slow minds think alike.

61 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:24:31pm

re: #50 Reginald Perrin

He probably isn't a asshole in real life, he just portrays one on the internet.

alright, now that was funny

62 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:24:41pm

re: #50 Reginald Perrin

He probably isn't a asshole in real life, he just portrays one on the internet.

If that's so, he's been giving the best acting performance of his life.

63 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:24:52pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Yeah, I think fear this whole thing will be exploited for the perceived gain of a whole long list of issues-Politics, rhetoric, gun control, the fall of civil discourse in politics....

Calm would be very welcome from all sides.

64 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:25:11pm

Let's wait until the Pima County Sheriffs Office's presser in 6 minutes before we report on Congresswoman Giffords' condition. We've been told she's died before and shown wrong.

65 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:25:11pm

re: #58 HAL2010

Daily Dish.

He needs to post a link for that. I'm not seeing it anywhere.

66 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:25:34pm

We can do without the internal drama.

67 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:26:42pm

re: #66 Gus 802

Quite so.

68 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:27:24pm

re: #64 commadore183

True

69 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:28:49pm

re: #66 Gus 802

We can do without the internal drama.

thank you

70 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:29:03pm

re: #39 kirkspencer

I agree, speculation at this point is just that. For those posters that believe in the power of prayer, toss a few up a few for the victims. As a agnostic, I'll even join you.

71 scrodd  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:29:09pm

Anyone know of a live feed to the press conference that is to take place in about a minute?

72 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:29:46pm
3.31 pm A reader writes:

I am standing in the aisle at Costco when I found out my Congresswomen, Gabrielle Giffords, has been shot dead up on the north side. While I’m scrambling with my phone, two couples in front of me are talking about it and suddenly I hear one of the women say, “Well, that’s to be expected when you’re so liberal.” And the other woman says, “Ohh, so we get to appoint a Republican?” I did not trust myself to speak. I’m a Soldier. Please remind me what country I am fighting for? At least seven people are dead. She happens to be the only member of Congress married to an active duty military — he’s a Navy officer serving as an astronaut.

From the Daily Dish

73 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:29:47pm

re: #71 scrodd

Anyone know of a live feed to the press conference that is to take place in about a minute?

[Link: www.kold.com...]

Click on the "Streaming Live" banner at the top of the page. It's local coverage.

74 Locker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:29:59pm

re: #42 Ericus58

It's not "all speculation". If you come home and a dish is broke and you speculate that your wife, kid or dog did it and your wife speculates that it was Dick Cheney then it's not just "all speculation".

75 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:30:09pm

This is very, very bad.

No matter the outcome, there will be a loud chorus of 'I told you so' that will only maintain the status quo or escalate what is already out of control.

This isn't about broken politics. This is about broken culture.

76 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:30:13pm

re: #71 scrodd

Anyone know of a live feed to the press conference that is to take place in about a minute?

I'm waiting for that. Have CNN and KOLD up but haven't seen anything yet. The UMC press conference is supposed to start now.

77 Skandal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:30:29pm

Members of Congress Must Lead by Example
Gabrielle Giffords' most recent interview with Fox.

78 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:30:49pm

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

MSNBC says that a federal judge died at the scene.

Again, Sharon Angle, "second amendment solution" provider.

Sarah Palin, "don't retreat, reload."

Michelle Bachman wanted people "armed and dangerous."

What the fuck is wrong with these people? At least one of the people shot today was a child.

One thing is for sure - if this turns out to be the work of some crazed, hate-fuelled tea partier, those responsible for spewing this kind of rhetoric will never accept any kind of responsibility for actions like these. Never.

79 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:31:06pm

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... from a 01-06-2011 diary at KOS...

Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Coincidence?

Interesting... now that diary has disappeared from KOS... anyone else find any stuff disappearing from website today since the shooting?

80 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:31:07pm

re: #72 Stanley Sea


I know it's ghoulish to ask, but how does AZ fill vacancies?

81 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:31:38pm

re: #19 Lidane

And Giffords was one of Caribou Barbie's "Take Back the 20" targets:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

She'd already endured vandalism to her office after her health care vote, according to MSNBC:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Crosshairs? Stay classy Sarah.

82 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:16pm

re: #78 Jimmah

Magic 8 Ball says:

Don't count on it
83 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:19pm

re: #76 Gus 802

I'm waiting for that. Have CNN and KOLD up but haven't seen anything yet. The UMC press conference is supposed to start now.

Don't be surprised if the presser is delayed.

It's all out of control.

84 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:30pm

Press conference delayed until 1:45. UMC.

85 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:36pm

re: #80 BishopX

I know it's ghoulish to ask, but how does AZ fill vacancies?

I'm reading that house vacancies are filled by special election, timing TBD by the state.

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:41pm

I knew something like this was going to happen. It was just a matter of time.

How terrible.

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:48pm

there's going to be more of this, isn't there

88 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:52pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Check Caribou Barbie's site. I'm sure her minions are busy trying to scrub that map with a target over Giffords' district from existence.

89 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:32:56pm

Campaign event last summer:

"Help remove Gabrille Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly"

90 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:33:01pm

re: #84 Gus 802

Press conference delayed until 1:45. UMC.

MDT Or about 15 minutes.

91 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:33:09pm

re: #71 scrodd

Anyone know of a live feed to the press conference that is to take place in about a minute?

This is not exactly what you're looking for, but may do until you find it: [Link: www.azcentral.com...]

92 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:33:16pm

CNN USstream live

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

93 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:33:57pm

re: #88 Lidane

Check Caribou Barbie's site. I'm sure her minions are busy trying to scrub that map with a target over Giffords' district from existence.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are.

94 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:34:00pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

Thanks.

95 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:34:25pm

re: #87 WindUpBird

there's going to be more of this, isn't there

Dear God I hope not. If anything, I hope this brings people to their senses.

96 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:34:27pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... now that diary has disappeared from KOS... anyone else find any stuff disappearing from website today since the shooting?

Users can delete their own diaries. He probably deleted it himself.

97 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:34:32pm

re: #75 researchok

This is very, very bad.

No matter the outcome, there will be a loud chorus of 'I told you so' that will only maintain the status quo or escalate what is already out of control.

This isn't about broken politics. This is about broken culture.

Possibly but keep in mind that it still might not be political. Think about John Hinckley. It's a very real possiblity.
If this is politically motivated and if it does end up being a wingnut I don't expect anything to change. They aren't going to back down on the conspiracies and overblown rhetoric until it ends up costing them votes. Glenn Beck still continues after one of his fans was stopped on his way to assassinate people at the Tides foundation. I don't expect anything to change.

98 Girth  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:34:51pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

I'm reading that house vacancies are filled by special election, timing TBD by the state.

"When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies." -- Article I, Section 2, Clause 4 of the U.S. Constitution

99 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:35:25pm

re: #96 recusancy

Users can delete their own diaries. He probably deleted it himself.

After reading the diary and his replies to comments at the end of the diary... I would have too!

His Facebook page is missing too!

100 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:35:40pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

If for any reason this murderer turns out to be a "Hinkley" shoot, that is to say far more deranged than political some folks out there will be disappointed. An unhealthy response in every instance.

101 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:35:48pm

re: #87 WindUpBird

there's going to be more of this, isn't there

It's what we do.

102 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:35:51pm

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, was rushing to the hospital when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.
"
Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."

NY-Post

103 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:36:04pm

press conf pushed out another ten minutes

104 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:36:56pm

re: #88 Lidane

Check Caribou Barbie's site. I'm sure her minions are busy trying to scrub that map with a target over Giffords' district from existence.

Ah... Sarah Palin... her brain is like life's half price ticket booth.

105 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:37:20pm

re: #103 Thanos
Not surprised.

106 Ericus58  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:38:18pm

I'm just not feeling the laughter in the background leading up to the press conference by some of the media I'm hearing from the CNN feed.....

107 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:38:24pm

THIS is how you prove you are a conservative today?

Her opponent in the election.

108 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:38:33pm

Reports are the congress woman is responsive and that she may well recover.

109 Meitantei  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:38:44pm

There so far looks like there are 5 dead, one of whom is a kid.
I have to believe it's a crazy nut for now.

110 bluecheese  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:13pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... now that diary has disappeared from KOS... anyone else find any stuff disappearing from website today since the shooting?

diarys can be deleted by whoever wrote them at any point in time over at kos.

111 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:13pm

Charles set a good example with this post-No speculation, and he is as strong a critic of Sarah, red hot rhetoric etc as anyone here. Kudos. When we know the motive we can run with it for lessons to learn or inflict. Before than really not so much.

112 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:14pm

Police press conference about to start...

113 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:22pm

re: #72 Stanley Sea

From the Daily Dish

No words.

But I wish the solder had shamed the hell out of those women....

114 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:36pm

I'm so angry right now. I hope she is okay.

115 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:40pm

re: #108 avanti

Reports are the congress woman is responsive and that she may well recover.

Reports from...?

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:39:45pm

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants."

We'll see that one quoted today.

117 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:40:09pm

re: #81 goddamnedfrank

Crosshairs? Stay classy Sarah.

she has an unprecedented talent for godawful timing...she eats so much foot that i'm surprised she has the time for the occasional caribou steak.

118 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:40:10pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

Possibly but keep in mind that it still might not be political. Think about John Hinckley. It's a very real possiblity.
If this is politically motivated and if it does end up being a wingnut I don't expect anything to change. They aren't going to back down on the conspiracies and overblown rhetoric until it ends up costing them votes. Glenn Beck still continues after one of his fans was stopped on his way to assassinate people at the Tides foundation. I don't expect anything to change.

Right, it might not be politically motivated. We don't know yet, but it doesn't look good.

In any case, the killer is in custody so we'll find out pretty soon.

119 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:40:36pm

re: #109 Meitantei

There so far looks like there are 5 dead, one of whom is a kid.
I have to believe it's a crazy nut for now.

My choice for the good of the republic is that this turns out to have no political connections.

120 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:40:40pm

In the past, American politicians have been shot because:

1. The shooter was crazy (Reagan)
2. The shooter disagreed with the politics of the politician (Lincoln, JFK)
3. The shooter had failed to get a government job (Garfield)
4. The shooter had been paid off (Actually, Washington was never shot, but a member of his bodyguard had been paid by the British. They just found out before he had a chance.)
5. It was a personal grudge (Harvey Milk)

It could also be personal, but I doubt it.

Until we know more, any and all of these are possibilities.

121 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:40:48pm

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants."

We'll see that one quoted today.

Yep by idiots who think they're the heirs of Jefferson. This truly is awful news.

122 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:41:18pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

Reports from...?

Az state senator on Fox, just now.

123 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:41:26pm

AZ State senator Linda Lopez said Giffords is out of surgery and is responsive. She also said the shooter was an Afghan vet.

124 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:41:37pm

re: #111 Rightwingconspirator

Charles set a good example with this post-No speculation, and he is as strong a critic of Sarah, red hot rhetoric etc as anyone here. Kudos. When we know the motive we can run with it for lessons to learn or inflict. Before than really not so much.

Ummm.. there's an update above.

125 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:41:42pm

re: #118 Charles

As a moderate "righty" I can only pray it was a psychopath. Well, at least not a right wing psychopath.

Ain't holding my breath, tho.

126 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:41:56pm

re: #121 HappyWarrior

Yep by idiots who think they're the heirs of Jefferson. This truly is awful news.

Jefferson's support of the French Revolution was not his finest hour.

127 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:41:59pm

Barring Info, Speculating On Motive Behind Giffords Shooting Helps No One : It's All Politics : NPR

In this era of instant information and 24/7 Tweeting, it is understandable that news about today's shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) after an event in Tucson spread like wildfire.

What is also unsurprising, but regrettable, is that everyone is ascribing a motive for the shooting without any credible information.

The Internet and the Twitterworld have been filled with speculation on why she was shot: that she was too liberal and was shot by a Tea Party conservative. Or that she was too moderate and shot by someone on the left.

All we know is that the shooter is under custody. No statement has been released, no motive revealed. Self-anointed "journalists" should keep such opinions to themselves until we know more.

It immediately reminded me of the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995, when the early reports — in those pre-Twitter days — widely speculated it was probably the work of Mideast extremists. It was not.

Read the whole thing.

128 Get busy livin'  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:42:00pm

"Giffords was one of the Democrats listed on this map/enemies list posted by Sarah Palin’s PAC, with gunsights indicating the location of their enemies"

Soooo....Sarah Palin's responsible for this? Isn't it a little too soon to be placing blame here, Charles (other than on the shooter, of course)? Since we really don't know anything about the shooter or his/her beliefs at this point, it seems premature to be placing blame. Also, even if the shooter was a Sarah Palin supporter or card-carrying member of the Tea Party, does that mean that Palin and the Tea Party are responsible for the actions of every one of their supporters/members? Are you responsible for the actions of every lizard? Do the beliefs and comments of every lizard represent your own?

129 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:42:03pm

In the comments of Palin's Facebook comment:
Michael Perez PUNISHMENT TIME IN AZ...MUCH DESERVED

130 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:42:19pm

re: #111 Rightwingconspirator

There's two very separate things I see:

1. Speculation on the motives of the shooter.

2. Condemnation of those who use violent political rhetoric and otherwise contribute to the out-of-control situation in politics.

The former is, well, speculation. The latter is very different.

131 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:42:22pm

re: #120 EmmmieG

5. It was a personal grudge (Harvey Milk)

Eh, I think there were politics involved there as well...

132 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:42:45pm

Preliminary report is that she remains in surgery and is "expected to make it out".

133 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:43:00pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

Eh, I think there were politics involved there as well...

Yep. It was beyond a personal grudge, it was also a political grudge. Hard to separate at that level, of course.

134 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:43:31pm

Fox reporting it was a Afgan vet. (Fog of war warning)

135 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:43:33pm

re: #128 Get busy livin'

Perhaps you could change your avatar for the occasion.

136 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:44:14pm

Maybe it is wrong to assume that the shooter was a right winger but one thing is for sure the gun rhetoric that Palin uses isn't helpful at all. Just say "let's beat so and so" rather than using lame gun references. I am not anti gun at all but Palin uses gun references way too casually for my liking.

138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:44:18pm

re: #134 avanti

Oh, shit.

139 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:44:47pm

re: #14 Lidane

Because a member of Congress getting shot in the head at a political event isn't political. WTF?

It's what used to be call an "assassination attempt"...and is non-partisan, unfortunately. Although, the TPGOP hasn't been helping matters at all in the current political climate.

140 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:44:55pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

re: #133 Obdicut

Yeah, White took the political personally. He felt they had destroyed him.

141 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:45:24pm

re: #128 Get busy livin'

"Giffords was one of the Democrats listed on this map/enemies list posted by Sarah Palin’s PAC, with gunsights indicating the location of their enemies"

Sooo...Sarah Palin's responsible for this? Isn't it a little too soon to be placing blame here, Charles (other than on the shooter, of course)? Since we really don't know anything about the shooter or his/her beliefs at this point, it seems premature to be placing blame. Also, even if the shooter was a Sarah Palin supporter or card-carrying member of the Tea Party, does that mean that Palin and the Tea Party are responsible for the actions of every one of their supporters/members? Are you responsible for the actions of every lizard? Do the beliefs and comments of every lizard represent your own?

Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem. There was nothing in those sentences that "placed blame" on Sarah Palin.

This enemies list with violent rhetoric is absolutely relevant here, as is the flood of extremist rhetoric from the right wing since Obama's election.

142 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:45:49pm

Of course there is no way right now to know why what happened happened.
It could be the Judge who died (?) who was targeted, it could have been personal and not political at all.

143 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:46:06pm

Please take all these reports with a grain of salt. Hospital presser shortly.

144 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:46:22pm

re: #128 Get busy livin'

really? it says somewhere above that Palin was responsible, as opposed to being an utter fool?

145 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:46:29pm

re: #129 webevintage

In the comments of Palin's Facebook comment:
Michael Perez PUNISHMENT TIME IN AZ...MUCH DESERVED

Pamela Sierchio Inelli You liberals are judging with no facts. Typical because thar is what Saul alinsky is telling you to do. This is a tragedy but you libs can crawl back in your cages and wait for the answers
about a minute ago ·

Just to lighten up the mood.

146 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:46:32pm

re: #128 Get busy livin'

"Giffords was one of the Democrats listed on this map/enemies list posted by Sarah Palin’s PAC, with gunsights indicating the location of their enemies"

Sooo...Sarah Palin's responsible for this? Isn't it a little too soon to be placing blame here, Charles (other than on the shooter, of course)? Since we really don't know anything about the shooter or his/her beliefs at this point, it seems premature to be placing blame. Also, even if the shooter was a Sarah Palin supporter or card-carrying member of the Tea Party, does that mean that Palin and the Tea Party are responsible for the actions of every one of their supporters/members? Are you responsible for the actions of every lizard? Do the beliefs and comments of every lizard represent your own?

Wow. The crosshairs map is just one of the many violent images that has been foisted upon us by the GOP against people they don't politically agree with. You didn't see that shit coming from the Left. Not like that.

So yea, my mind is made up about the motive. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It won't be the first or the last.

147 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:46:36pm

re: #134 avanti

Fox reporting it was a Afgan vet. (Fog of war warning)

Fox News is a hot bed of lies.

148 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:46:43pm

During the health care vote, Giffords was the target of violence - a brick was thrown through her window.

149 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:47:01pm

The shooter was born in 1988. according to the live feed on KOLD.

That makes him 22.

150 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:47:11pm

Trauma surgeon still talking to family members.

Presser delayed another 15 minutes.

151 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:47:17pm

re: #130 Obdicut

Agreed. We have seen so much violent rhetoric particularly from the rabid right wing. Some have been very too quick to tie them together. We'll see. I'm with FBV's #123.

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:48:08pm

re: #150 Gus 802

Their right to know extends WAY beyond our right to know. Good.

153 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:48:20pm

re: #149 HAL2010

The shooter was born in 1988. according to the live feed on KOLD.

That makes him 22.

Long enough to have served three years in Afghanistan...

154 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:48:43pm

re: #120 EmmmieG

6. The shooter hoped to start a revolution. (Mckinley)

155 Get busy livin'  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:48:59pm

re: #135 wrenchwench

Perhaps you could change your avatar for the occasion.

I've been using that avatar for years and I'm not going to change it now. If you look carefully, you'll see that that's Osama bin Ladin in Homer's gunsight.

156 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:10pm

2 amendment solutions my ass.

Nice work baggers.

157 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:12pm

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

Fox News is a hot bed of lies.

Maybe, but more likely reporting "news" as they hear it. Update, Fed Judge John Roll killed.

158 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:23pm

re: #150 Gus 802

I'm not going to read too much into it, myself.

159 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:23pm

re: #128 Get busy livin'

You're an ignorant fool if you're positing that there is no cause/effect relationship between charged rhetoric and the actions of the populace. It's very plausible that there is a causal relationship.

160 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:29pm

Oh, Sr. Sarah's facebook page.


Mark Kerr This is the first step to taking back our Christian nation! Thank you Sarah - you are God's annointed one! "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, like being pro-gay and pro-abortion and pro-death-panel, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
about a minute ago ·

Anyone know Mark Kerr?

161 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:49pm

Oh thank you, God. Thank you! Thank you!

From Huffpo

3:44 PM ET State Senator: Giffords Through Surgery, 'Responding To Commands'

Via Brian Stelter, state senator Linda Lopez tells Fox, "We just heard that [Giffords] is responding to commands. She made it through surgery."

162 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:49pm

re: #154 BishopX

6. The shooter hoped to start a revolution. (Mckinley)

I was going to add strictly personal, but I couldn't think of any. I'm sure there are a few where love, sex, or family money was the motivation.

Hightly doubtful, here, on the order of improbable.

163 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:49:53pm

Poor souls. What a senseless, despicable slaughter. Sickening.

And of course it was political. Not in the "hey I want to get this law passed" or "hey I will vote for this dude" way but in the "I am going to kill in order to strike fear in the hearts of the people that I loathe" way.

164 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:50:07pm

Violent rhetoric is always wrong. Even if nobody acts on it. No good ever comes of it. Calm people and moderates understand this. Rabid partisans and campaign writers forget this fact.

165 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:50:11pm

re: #148 Charles

During the health care vote, Giffords was the target of violence - a brick was thrown through her window.

Did you see this one?

166 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:50:17pm

re: #158 commadore183

I'm not going to read too much into it, myself.

Yeah. I have my own thoughts about that but will keep them to myself.

167 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:50:19pm

Sarah Palins sites are being scrubbed faster than fast.

Among the images being removed.

Disgusting.

168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:50:34pm

re: #159 BigPapa

I had to re-read. Thought you said "casual".

169 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:50:47pm

re: #159 BigPapa

You're an ignorant fool if you're positing that there is no cause/effect relationship between charged rhetoric and the actions of the populace. It's very plausible that there is a causal relationship.

Could well be right, but let's wait for some more facts to be presented.

170 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:07pm

re: #160 Stanley Sea

No but I'm now terrified of him...

171 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:17pm

Did you guys lose the KOLD feed?

172 Meitantei  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:26pm

re: #163 000G

Was JFK's death political? No. It was because a loser sought Herostratic glory.

173 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:41pm

AP has identified the shooter as Jared Laughner.

From: [Link: www.azcentral.com...]

174 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:49pm

re: #134 avanti

Fox reporting it was a Afgan vet. (Fog of war warning)

Ah, mentally unbalanced then? So no matter why he shot her, or who he was listening to, it's not the fault of any party or idea or hate-monger because sane people would not take their words as a license to actually kill.

That would be right up there with the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" line.

175 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:51pm

Giffords warned of this:

"They really need to realize that the rhetoric and firing people up, and, you know, even things for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. when people do that, you gotta realize there's consequences to that action."

From the Daily Dish

176 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:51:53pm

re: #171 marjoriemoon

Did you guys lose the KOLD feed?

Don't know. I closed that and left the CNN/KVOA feed open.

177 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:05pm

re: #167 HAL2010

Sarah Palins sites are being scrubbed faster than fast.

Among the images being removed.

i.imgur.com...]>Disgusting.

So it was ago to post them until the possibility that someone took the gun sights literally ?

178 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:17pm

re: #172 Meitantei

Was JFK's death political? No. It was because a loser sought Herostratic glory.

It was political as well as a loser seeking herostratic glory. One does not contradict the other.

179 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:28pm

re: #171 marjoriemoon

I still have it.

180 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:38pm

re: #164 Rightwingconspirator

Why it takes an incident like this to teach that lesson does speak poorly of our culture. So very sad.

181 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:44pm

re: #172 Meitantei

Was JFK's death political? No. It was because a loser sought Herostratic glory.

Yes, it was. Oswald hated American society. He struck at JFK as the leader of the US.

182 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:50pm

re: #162 EmmmieG

I was going to add strictly personal, but I couldn't think of any. I'm sure there are a few where love, sex, or family money was the motivation.

Hightly doubtful, here, on the order of improbable.

I don't know of any prominent ones but I am sure there has been at least one politician killed by the spouse of a jealous lover.

183 Get busy livin'  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:52:59pm

re: #159 BigPapa

You're an ignorant fool if you're positing that there is no cause/effect relationship between charged rhetoric and the actions of the populace. It's very plausible that there is a causal relationship.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that it's a little early to be claiming there's a "cause/effect" in this case when we don't know anything about the shooter or his motive.

184 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:00pm

re: #145 Stanley Sea

Just to lighten up the mood.

there is some crazy there.
No matter what the reason for the shooting it would be nice if a responsible, commonsense America lover like Sarah would step up and say she will never use gun/shooting rhetoric in regards to politics (or political enemies) again.

185 SeafoodGumbo  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:05pm

re: #146 marjoriemoon

Wow. The crosshairs map is just one of the many violent images that has been foisted upon us by the GOP against people they don't politically agree with. You didn't see that shit coming from the Left. Not like that.

So yea, my mind is made up about the motive. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It won't be the first or the last.

Yeah, you never see that from the left.

[Link: www.postonpolitics.com...]

186 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:11pm

re: #171 marjoriemoon

Did you guys lose the KOLD feed?

I still have it too, but it's getting a little choppy.

187 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:15pm

Presser is up.

188 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:20pm

re: #160 Stanley Sea

Oh, Sr. Sarah's facebook page.

Anyone know Mark Kerr?

Groan. That verse is so !@#$%ing misused. What a maroon.

189 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:24pm

"I Stand With You, Glenn"

Youtube Video
190 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:26pm

re: #175 Stanley Sea

Giffords warned of this:

"They really need to realize that the rhetoric and firing people up, and, you know, even things for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. when people do that, you gotta realize there's consequences to that action."

From the Daily Dish

Chillingly prescient.

191 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:41pm

With rhetoric like "Second Amendment solution" and "Don't retreat, reload!" lately, it's difficult not to ascribe motive to the mass shooter whose victim is a politician, in this case a Democrat supporting health care reform. I'll wait until there's confirmation of the shooter's motive, but anything is possible.

192 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:53:55pm

re: #179 BishopX

I still have it.

Hmmm I closed it and it won't run again.

193 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:54:05pm

I'll keep saying it. Words mean things.

195 SeafoodGumbo  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:54:38pm

It sure is sad to see so many people trying to make political hay out of this before the facts are in. I await your ugly deluge of comments. I'll check out a few before this filthy teabagger goes to watch the Saints game.

196 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:54:42pm

re: #183 Get busy livin'

That's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that it's a little early to be claiming there's a "cause/effect" in this case when we don't know anything about the shooter or his motive.

You said a lot more than that. It's still posted up there, you know.

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:54:46pm

Oswald was a communist who was upset about Cuba. He was also a loser.

198 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:54:47pm

This senseless attack today in Tucson is a national tragedy, and all America mourns those who lost their lives in the very act of public service. I join the entire Congress in condemning this horrifying act of violence, and on behalf of the entire Senate family, Elaine and I extend our deepest expressions of sympathy and heartfelt prayers to Rep. Giffords and the families of those who have been killed or injured. The U.S. Capitol Police are joining local, state and federal officials in this investigation. We appreciate their quick response and stand ready to assist in their efforts. -Mitch McConnell

199 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:55:10pm

18 people shot...

200 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:55:28pm

Press Conf. Beginning.

201 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:55:31pm

re: #195 SeafoodGumbo

It sure is sad to see so many people trying to make political hay out of this before the facts are in. I await your ugly deluge of comments. I'll check out a few before this filthy teabagger goes to watch the Saints game.

How can you watch a football game when something like this has happened?

202 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:55:48pm

"giving very brief information.."

203 justaminute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:56:04pm

MSNBC is reporting that Congresswoman Gifford is expected to survive.

204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:56:28pm

re: #198 BishopX


“I am horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff. An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society. Our prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, all who were injured, and their families. This is a sad day for our country."
-Speaker John Boehner

205 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:56:48pm

UMC news conference now.

[Link: www.kold.com...]

Click on the "Streaming Live" banner at the top of the page for local coverage.

206 allegro  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:02pm

re: #185 SeafoodGumbo

Jeez is that the best ya got? Case closed.

207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:04pm

re: #199 BishopX

What on earth was he using?

208 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:19pm

"Next 5 - 10 min we should know more about what is going on.."

209 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:21pm

re: #195 SeafoodGumbo

What a jerk.

I know you'll come back to read that.

210 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:33pm

re: #205 commadore183

Scratch that, it was a representative stating who will the speaking. I didn't catch who all they are, though.

211 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:39pm

re: #173 wrenchwench

AP has identified the shooter as Jared Laughner.

From: [Link: www.azcentral.com...]

Public records searches turn up addresses in San Diego, CA and Provo, UT.

212 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:57:44pm

re: #195 SeafoodGumbo

It sure is sad to see so many people trying to make political hay out of this before the facts are in. I await your ugly deluge of comments. I'll check out a few before this filthy teabagger goes to watch the Saints game.


Maybe you can apply you love of tu quoque to the game as well.

213 SeafoodGumbo  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:58:05pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

I'll be following the news on my phone. Walk and chew gum, ya know...

214 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:58:28pm

18 people have been injured

The shooter has a criminal past according to the sheriff.

From KOLD.

215 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:58:32pm

No FB or MS page for a Jared Laugner in Arizona. Actually odd for a 22 year old, especially if they served overseas (most use FB as a communication device with F&F back home).

216 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:58:50pm

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Police recovered a pistol" -KOLD

217 BadgerB  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:59:12pm

re: #87 WindUpBird

there's going to be more of this, isn't there

Those who wish to attempt to remain optimistic can hope for this to be one of those moments when, as a society, we stare collectively into the darkness ahead, shake our heads, and deciding that we will no go there, turn back. Of course, it is at exactly these times when that seems the most impossible of all outcomes...

Prayers for the injured, their families, and all their friends and loved ones.

218 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:59:26pm

22 yr old suspect has a "criminal past"--according to local AZ streaming news.

219 Get busy livin'  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:59:31pm

re: #141 Charles

Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem. There was nothing in those sentences that "placed blame" on Sarah Palin.

This enemies list with violent rhetoric is absolutely relevant here, as is the flood of extremist rhetoric from the right wing since Obama's election.

You may not have stated it outright, but your post sure seems to imply there's a link. Why even mention Palin before we have all the facts? We don't even know if the attack was politically motivated at this point. It could just be some nut who thinks his dog told him to do it.

220 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:59:44pm

re: #169 ralphieboy

Could well be right, but let's wait for some more facts to be presented.

The shooter may be trying to get a date with a movie starlet for all we know but it does not change my statement. Whether or not his motivations are political does not change the reality that charged rhetoric is rampant.

But do we need to wait until a shooter motivated by the charged rhetoric acts before we act?

221 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:59:48pm

One presser has been pushed back to 6 PM MST. Didn't catch which one it was.

222 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 12:59:57pm

Pima Cty Sheriff: Shooter apprehended: Jared Laughner, 22, used pistol w/ extended magazine.

223 BishopX  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:00:19pm

re: #216 BishopX

Witness claimed there were 20-30 shots fired. Assuming an automatic pistol that's 2-4 magazines worth. He was apparently tackled after running out of ammo.

224 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:00:23pm

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

Public records searches turn up addresses in San Diego, CA and Provo, UT.

You're much better than Heath Haussamen:

RT @nmindependent No information on Jared Laughner anywhere. No Facebook profile, nothing on Google... // Nothing on AZ courts site either.
225 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:00:48pm

Crazies be crazy. The far left extremist and the far right extremist have more in common with each other than with the political left and right.

226 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:01:00pm

re: #220 BigPapa

The shooter may be trying to get a date with a movie starlet for all we know but it does not change my statement. Whether or not his motivations are political does not change the reality that charged rhetoric is rampant.

But do we need to wait until a shooter motivated by the charged rhetoric acts before we act?


because nobody was shooting at Sarah.

227 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:01:14pm

re: #223 BishopX

Hopefully he fell and accidentally hit his face on the ground a few dozen times.

228 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:01:17pm

Jared Laugner is 22, and from Tucson according to KOLD.

229 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:01:33pm

UMC has received 10 patients with 1 dying upon arrival

230 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:01:49pm

re: #225 Buck

Crazies be crazy. The far left extremist and the far right extremist have more in common with each other than with the political left and right.

"left" and "right" are arbitrary designations - we have started to take them as inherent a priori categories

231 Mark Winter  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:01:58pm

Whatever the political affiliations of the victims, lets hope and wish them the very best for their speedy recovery.

232 mr.fusion  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:23pm

re: #215 Jdorfma4

No FB or MS page for a Jared Laugner in Arizona. Actually odd for a 22 year old, especially if they served overseas (most use FB as a communication device with F&F back home).


Did a Lexis search for the name as well........nada

Dr just said a young child died at the hospital

233 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:28pm

re: #229 commadore183

UMC has received 10 patients with 1 dying upon arrival

A young child.

234 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:29pm

"Congresswoman is not deceased."

235 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:31pm

re: #213 SeafoodGumbo

I'll be following the news on my phone. Walk and chew gum, ya know...

I don't care what the fuck you do, but there is something sick and screwed up with someone like you who jumps in her and makes the kind of smart-assed comment as you do and then BRAG that you are going to be enjoying football.

Shit for brains.

236 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:34pm

re: #225 Buck

Crazies be crazy. The far left extremist and the far right extremist have more in common with each other than with the political left and right.

The far right extremist tends to have more guns.

237 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:38pm

re: #193 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll keep saying it. Words mean things.

Rush Limbaugh used to say that a lot. I wonder if he still does.

238 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:38pm

5 in critical condition and 5 in the operation room. Giffords is in critical condition. Surgeon is optimistic about her prognosis.

The person that has died at UMC was a child.

239 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:40pm

One victim, a child. Giffords and several others still critical.

240 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:02:44pm

Young child only confirmed fatality.

241 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:04pm

re: #204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

“I am horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff. An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society. Our prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, all who were injured, and their families. This is a sad day for our country."
-Speaker John Boehner


Any tears?

242 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:05pm

CNN conference now. 1 person dead, a young child! Gabby still in critical condition but he's "optimistic" about recovery. Shot "through and through" her brain.

243 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:16pm

Very optimistic for Giffords.

244 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:22pm

In critical condition, not dead, surgeon "optimistic"

She was shot in the head. She has been able to follow commands. Shot "through and through" the head.

The 1 casualty is a "very young child".

245 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:26pm

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What on earth was he using?

Glock.

246 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:42pm

The deceased is a child.

He shot a child.

247 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:48pm

9 years old!! Oh my Lord!!!

248 Ericus58  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:49pm

re: #241 Amory Blaine

Any tears?

dude...... have some class.

249 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:03:58pm

The thing is even if this wasn't politically motivated that maybe just maybe that the Palins, Angles, and others of the political world who use this rhetoric should stop and think. I remember hearing about one time when Kathleen Kennedy Townsend(RFK's oldest daughter) was on G. Gordon Liddy's show that he was talking about how he wanted to shoot federal agents. Kathleen, who as we know had her father and uncle murdered by gunmen was understandbly upset. This kind of rhetoric helps no one and it's really getting annoying.

250 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:04:06pm

The child was "about nine years old"

251 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:04:07pm

Giffords' brother in law is currently in orbit on the International Space Station.

252 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:04:11pm

wow...she was shot in the head...went through her brain. expected to pull through after neurosurgeon finished surgery.


There are different levels of survival. I really hope she does not suffer serious disabilities from her injuries.

253 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:04:52pm

re: #195 SeafoodGumbo

I've read the whole thread and we must be reading two different versions of LGF...and I'm not buying your faux butthurt.

254 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:04:54pm

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

I don't care what the fuck you do, but there is something sick and screwed up with someone like you who jumps in her and makes the kind of smart-assed comment as you do and then BRAG that you are going to be enjoying football.

Shit for brains.

And please take any up dings for this comment away... I wasn't being nice and I don't need any pats on my back.

255 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:01pm

Tucson mayor is speaking now.

256 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:14pm

re: #246 EmmmieG

The deceased is a child.

He shot a child.

early reports were that someone in the crowd fired on the gunman, but who knows with all the conflicting reports.

257 Alecto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:30pm

Fark dug up a potential youtube channel for the alleged shooter.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

258 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:32pm

re: #252 BryanS

wow...she was shot in the head...went through her brain. expected to pull through after neurosurgeon finished surgery.

There are different levels of survival. I really hope she does not suffer serious disabilities from her injuries.

Problem with brain injuries is that you never know. Her whole personality could have been radically altered.
For everyone, I hope she makes a full recovery.

259 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:45pm

re: #255 commadore183

Tucson mayor is speaking now.

Bob Walkup

260 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:48pm

Oh dear. That's all I can say I can find the words to say at this juncture. Dear God, I hope that this wasn't politically motivated.

261 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:49pm

No listing for a Jared Loughner in Pima county jail but given the high profile he just might not have been processed yet. trying to find a criminal record. In Harris County here in texas its all online, Pima may be the same.

262 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:05:55pm

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

MSNBC says that a federal judge died at the scene.

Again, Sharon Angle, "second amendment solution" provider.

Sarah Palin, "don't retreat, reload."

Michelle Bachman wanted people "armed and dangerous."

What the fuck is wrong with these people? At least one of the people shot today was a child.

Those aren't mere fighting words - but ones of insurrection.

I hope we aren't in the initial social throes of politically motivated violence.

263 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:06:08pm

This is so utterly effed up. A CHILD.

264 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:06:21pm

re: #261 Jdorfma4

No listing for a Jared Loughner in Pima county jail but given the high profile he just might not have been processed yet. trying to find a criminal record. In Harris County here in texas its all online, Pima may be the same.

"jared laughner" spelling?

265 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:06:35pm

re: #261 Jdorfma4

No listing for a Jared Loughner in Pima county jail but given the high profile he just might not have been processed yet. trying to find a criminal record. In Harris County here in texas its all online, Pima may be the same.

Could be an interesting one ..

266 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:06:45pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

And please take any up dings for this comment away... I wasn't being nice and I don't need any pats on my back.

Fuck you. You're keeping my upding. I liked what you said.

267 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:06:53pm

9 years old, my brother is that age and I am a year older than the shooter.

268 Skandal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:06:54pm

MSNBC talks to Rep. Gabrielle Gifford about the death threats, vandalism and harassments. Aired 3/25/10.

“Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action.”

269 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:07:22pm

re: #195 SeafoodGumbo

It sure is sad to see so many people trying to make political hay out of this before the facts are in. I await your ugly deluge of comments. I'll check out a few before this filthy teabagger goes to watch the Saints game.

We may not know yet what the killer's motivations were in this instance hence the absence of strong claims about that here, but the facts about the - to put it very mildly - reckless irresponsibility of the tea partier's most pea-brained agitators - (the part of the disussion here that is really pissing you off) have been in for a long time.

270 Get busy livin'  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:00pm

re: #240 avanti

Young child only confirmed fatality.

Aweful

271 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:13pm

re: #257 Alecto

Watching now. Yeah, this seems like its him. its rambling anti-government garbage. A lot of stuff about currency and a specific reference to district 8.

272 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:27pm

re: #257 Alecto

Fark dug up a potential youtube channel for the alleged shooter.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

If that's him, he seems really fucking crazy.

273 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:40pm

I'm absolutely shocked at all this. I was out and was checking in on my phone when I saw the news. It makes me sick to my stomach. It's horrifying and can't imagine what the shooter, Jared Laughner, was thinking when he opened fire on the crowd and has killed several people.

I'm thankful that Congresswoman Gifford's surgeons are hopeful for a recovery and that they were able to save her life, but several others were senselessly murdered.

Scratch that - this was an assassination attempt.

It will be interesting to see what motivations emerge behind the shooter's intent.

274 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:46pm

re: #272 Obdicut

If that's him, he seems really fucking crazy.

really really crazy

275 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:52pm

re: #257 Alecto

Fark dug up a potential youtube channel for the alleged shooter.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

interesting.

276 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:54pm

re: #257 Alecto

Fark dug up a potential youtube channel for the alleged shooter.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

He lists both the 'Communist Manifesto' and 'Mein Kampf' in his list of favorite books. WTF?!

277 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:08:58pm

Second fatality confirmed. Federal Judge has died.

278 Mark Winter  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:09:07pm

Politicians should refrain from using a symbolic crosshair to make their point. There will always be deranged individuals who know more about guns than symbolics.

279 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:09:09pm

I hope that she makes a recovery, and I hope that this is the last incident like this we see for a long time....

The worst possible outcome is that Democrats could be forced to use fucked up shit like this as campaign dirt, if some people continue to do it over and over again, like those wanted signs for abortion doctors....

280 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:09:32pm

re: #262 eclectic infidel

Those aren't mere fighting words - but ones of insurrection.

I hope we aren't in the initial social throes of politically motivated violence.

Yep, seriously this rhetoric helps no one at all and you can tell with the rhetoric those three use that they've never had a loved one die due to gun violence before. One of my memories of my childhood is hearing about the first murder in my hometown. A kid who I went to high school with was shot in a drive by. People like Palin, Bachmann, and Angle talk about guns like they're toys and it's goddamned sick.

281 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:10:29pm

re: #272 Obdicut

If that's him, he seems really fucking crazy.

If that's hiim how the hell did the military let hiim in? It looks like he's been crazy for a while.

282 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:11pm

His myspace page?

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

283 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:13pm

Against my better judgment, I went and checked WRH's take on this. They think it's a "false flag" op to distract people from some Mass. Supreme Court Ruling.

Why am I not surprised?

284 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:13pm

re: #257 Alecto

Fark dug up a potential youtube channel for the alleged shooter.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

If this is him (and it probably is--he's from Tuscon) then he's a nut, but not one of any political party. He does seem to think the government might be watching him, that his civil rights are threatened, and that we need a new currency (?), but he lists both Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto among his favorite books.
An eclectic lunatic, in short, if this youtube page is to be believed.

285 nines09  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:17pm

All the wack jobs that said mindless jingoistic bullshit like "watering the tree of liberty" and Sarah Palins "target cross hairs" and Glenn Beck and his histrionics and "If not ballots by bullets" on and on and on.......
Happy now? I would bet large that the perp had this planned. You don't just have that amount of ammo everyday in hand.
I am saddened and dismayed and disgusted.

286 usufruct  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:35pm

I live in Arizona and have long known something like this would happen. We have a horrible combination of John Birchers, racists and other wackos, as well as a press which seems incapable of pointing out the utter bullshit that gets spewed by even leaders in the state legislature. There is a significant section of the public here that think Giffords, who has been a conservative democrat, is a 'socialist' and these claims aren't subject to the ridicule they should be but are just par for the course.

287 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:47pm

Our channel's news conf puts the child as 9 months old, more consistent with "very young".

288 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:47pm

If that is the shooters youtube account he seems a very disturbed individual to say the least.

In the "Introduction" video he writes about what a terrorist is and what the constitution means.

Alarm bells are ringing.

289 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:11:59pm

re: #272 Obdicut

That's some seriously screwed up thinking alright. Dialed way up...

290 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:12:05pm

re: #278 Mark Winter

Politicians should refrain from using a symbolic crosshair to make their point. There will always be deranged individuals who know more about guns than symbolics.

Netanyahu learned that lesson the hard way, after Rabin complained about him showing up and speaking at ultra conservative rallies where posters of Yitzhak with crosshairs over his face were prominently displayed.

291 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:12:13pm

If that is his YouTube material... there is a song posted there...

Bodies (Drowning Pool song)

I don't know much about the kind of people attracted to this music, or this particular song, or group.

Anyone?

292 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:12:28pm

Twitter

@daveanthony: If an American Iranian group had placed those gun sights on a map, @sarahpalinusa would be calling them terrorists right now.

293 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:12:30pm

re: #258 HAL2010

Problem with brain injuries is that you never know. Her whole personality could have been radically altered.
For everyone, I hope she makes a full recovery.

Prayers to all who were injured and killed and a pox on the shooter.

If this assassination attempt was a bid to get Giffords out of the way, by hook or by crook, the shooter may have still succeeded if the congresswoman doesn't recover fully and is considered to be incapacitated.

*spit*

294 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:12:40pm

re: #257 Alecto

Fark dug up a potential youtube channel for the alleged shooter.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

If that's this guy's, he really is a nut job/mentally unstable. Filled with conspiracy weirdness about dreaming and government control of currencies.

295 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:12:55pm

re: #284 elizajane

If this is him (and it probably is--he's from Tuscon) then he's a nut, but not one of any political party. He does seem to think the government might be watching him, that his civil rights are threatened, and that we need a new currency (?), but he lists both Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto among his favorite books.
An eclectic lunatic, in short, if this youtube page is to be believed.

Agreed, but he it is him, he chose a Democratic Congresswoman's rally to target.

And kill someone's young daughter. It's beyond words.

296 Alecto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:13:12pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

Drowning Pool isn't exactly known for its conservative ethics. It's a fairly typical modern metal band.

297 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:13:27pm

Mind control?

298 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:13:49pm

re: #185 SeafoodGumbo

There has been plenty of bad behavior both from the far left and the far right.

299 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:13:55pm

re: #296 Alecto

Drowning Pool isn't exactly known for its conservative ethics. It's a fairly typical modern metal band.

Just wondering... oh... and how would you know :)

300 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:14:00pm

There is a reference in the second video to his military service. Its him. Uploaded December 15, this was planned well in advance.

301 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:14:12pm

Note that this is still very prelimnary and very speculative:

Jackie Storrer (JACKIE STORRER-cq), right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner (JARED LOUGHNER-cq), a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books. Sunday March 14, 2010 (SUNDAY MARCH 14, 2010-cq) Tucson, Arizona photo by: Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Transmission 148522 MANDATORY CREDIT, NO SALES, NO MAG

[Link: gallery.pictopia.com...]

302 KingKenrod  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:14:18pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

If that is his YouTube material... there is a song posted there...

Bodies (Drowning Pool song)

I don't know much about the kind of people attracted to this music, or this particular song, or group.

Anyone?

He burns an American flag at the end of that video...

303 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:14:21pm

If this really is the guy, he's bananrama.

304 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:14:30pm

He seems like a conspiracy loon and those types usually embrace some of each extremist ideology.

305 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:14:45pm

re: #276 UNIXon

He lists both the 'Communist Manifesto' and 'Mein Kampf' in his list of favorite books. WTF?!

I thought the same thing. This guy is wacko.

306 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:15:18pm

KOLD: St Mary's hospital says they have 4 victims: 2 males and 2 females, with one of the victims hospitalized because of non-gunshot wounds, if I caught that correctly.

307 Alecto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:15:21pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

Just wondering... oh... and how would you know :)

Because I rock hard?

No, actually I used to be a rock radio DJ.

308 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:15:24pm

WhitlockJason

Sarah Palin is not a political figure to me. She's a female Al Sharpton. Gal Sharpton is a divisive figure. Period. I have no political ties

309 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:15:28pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

My son is in a "Death Metal" band. Most passive group of guy's you'd ever meet, but their music is (I hate it, btw) pretty violent.

310 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:15:50pm

re: #284 elizajane

If this is him (and it probably is--he's from Tuscon) then he's a nut, but not one of any political party. He does seem to think the government might be watching him, that his civil rights are threatened, and that we need a new currency (?), but he lists both Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto among his favorite books.
An eclectic lunatic, in short, if this youtube page is to be believed.

One of his videos rails against article 1 section 10 of the constitution. Sounds like ron paul stuff.

311 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:15:53pm

"The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution.

You dont have to accept the federalist laws.

Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws."

From one of his youtube videos.

312 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:16:09pm

re: #302 KingKenrod

He burns an American flag at the end of that video...

Thats not him. Its one of his favorites, posted by someone else.

313 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:16:09pm

re: #298 Ojoe

There has been plenty of bad behavior both from the far left and the far right.


Ojoe, this is not the time to be playing the MBF card.

How much violence from the left has there been over the last 2 years?

How much from the right?

314 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:16:43pm

re: #302 KingKenrod

He burns an American flag at the end of that video...

///Well then clearly he's a pot smoking hippie....

315 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:16:57pm

If that's his YouTube page, it's exactly what I feared. He's an extreme right wing libertarian type.

316 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:17:14pm

re: #302 KingKenrod

That's not his video, its someone elses he listed in his favorites.

317 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:17:20pm

re: #298 Ojoe

There has been plenty of bad behavior both from the far left and the far right.

Well, if it isn't the Magical Balance Fairy.

318 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:17:27pm

re: #284 elizajane

Indeed, I was considering the possibility that this page was staged in advance.

319 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:17:30pm

KOLD reports that there was no return gunfire in the shooting.

320 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:17:41pm

re: #313 jamesfirecat

Ojoe, this is not the time to be playing the MBF card.

How much violence from the left has there been over the last 2 years?

How much from the right?

James... you tell Ojoe not to go the Magical Balance Fairy route... and then you do the same thing?

321 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:17:49pm

re: #304 HappyWarrior

He seems like a conspiracy loon and those types usually embrace some of each extremist ideology.

He just seems really, really mentaly ill. Beyond conspiracy theory even:

Terrorist

If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me terrorist.
Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:18:07pm

I seem to remember one of the "Maiden Outrages" of the Right was when Homeland Security released a warning about guys who appear to fit this asshole's profile.

323 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:18:22pm

Another site that looks like he wrote some stuff on:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

324 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:18:47pm

re: #300 Jdorfma4

There is a reference in the second video to his military service. Its him. Uploaded December 15, this was planned well in advance.

Yeah...the posting starting with "My Final Thoughts: Jared Lee Loughner" sure seems to be his final demented message to the world three weeks in advance of his insane plot.

325 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:18:49pm

re: #276 UNIXon

If both, then politically neutral. A better result than either side partisan. Let us hope for neutral crazy here.

326 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:18:59pm

re: #317 wrenchwench

Well, if it isn't the Magical Balance Fairy.

Mine is cuter...

327 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:19:10pm

re: #320 Walter L. Newton

James... you tell Ojoe not to go the Magical Balance Fairy route... and then you do the same thing?

In what way exactly Walter?

328 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:19:37pm

re: #276 UNIXon

He lists both the 'Communist Manifesto' and 'Mein Kampf' in his list of favorite books. WTF?!

I have both on my shelves, and a lot of Aquinas--doesn't mean much.

329 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:19:56pm

This seems top be his manifesto...
Jared Laughner

Youtube Video
330 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:20:21pm

Correct spelling appears to be: Jared Lee Loughner

Google fu my friends.

331 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:20:35pm

re: #325 Ojoe

If both, then politically neutral. A better result than either side partisan. Let us hope for neutral crazy here.

There's nothing neutral about his writings and videos. He's an extreme anti-government right wing libertarian. This isn't just random craziness.

332 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:20:53pm

Political violence is bad if from the right.

Political violence is bad if from the left.

Quoth the MBF.

333 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:20:54pm

re: #323 recusancy

Another site that looks like he wrote some stuff on:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Video Information
Mouse over to Stop

Classitup10 writes --> Hello, and welcome my classified leak of information that's of the United States Military to the student body and you. Firstly, I want you to understand this from the start. Did you know grammar is double blind, listener? Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I'll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D If you're a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You're a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I'll let you in on their little cruel joke that's genocidal. They're argument is appeal to force on their jurisdiction with lack of proof of evidence. Each subject is in question for the location! The police don't quite get paid correctly with them dirty front runners under section 10? Their country's alliances are able to make illegal trades under section 10. Eh! I'm a Nihilist, not someone who put who put trust in god! What is section 10 you ask? If you make a purchase then it's illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. You make a purchase. Therefore, it's illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Thirdly, tell them mother fuckers to count from 0 to whenever they feel a threat to stop their count. We can all hope they add new numbers and letters to their count down. Did you run out of breath around the trillions, listener? Well, B.C.E is yet to start for Ad to begin! What does this mean for a citizen in any country? Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can't find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous! You shouldn't jump to conclusion with your education plan. The constitution as of now, which is in use by the current power pigs, aren't able to protect the bill of rights! Do you now have enough information to know the two wars are illegal! What is your date of time, listener? Fourthly, those applications that are with background checks break the United States constitution! What's your riot name? I'll catch you! Top secret: Why don't people control the money system? Their Current Currency(1/1) / Your new infinite currency (1/~infinte) This is a selcte information of revoluntary thoughts! Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; ... (ran out of room)

334 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:21:03pm

re: #329 Killgore Trout

This seems top be his manifesto...
Jared Laughner


[Video]

From the video:

"The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution.

You dont have to accept the federalist laws.

Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws."

335 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:21:03pm

re: #329 Killgore Trout

This guy has had sanity in the rear view mirror for a long time.

336 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:21:06pm

re: #310 recusancy

One of his videos rails against article 1 section 10 of the constitution. Sounds like ron paul stuff.

Yes, I watched another video and he is clearly a right-wing, conspiracy-theorist whacko who is convinced that the constitution is being violated and we need to do something about it, and that terrorism isn't terrorism if you can define it away.
And as I said before, the right wing will say that he's just a nut and that sane people wouldn't go around shooting lawmakers because of their ideas.
[spits]

337 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:21:15pm

I hear a lot of crap I think is crazy—conspiracy theories, religious extremism, etc. but spouting crazy sounding stuff doesn't necessarily make one crazy in a legal (court/trial) sense.

338 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:21:50pm

re: #331 Charles

Bad result

all bad really no matter what.

339 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:21:53pm

re: #329 Killgore Trout

This seems top be his manifesto...
Jared Laughner


[Video]

Ah, he's a gold bug (3:30)

340 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:22:01pm

re: #330 Stanley Sea

Still no FB. I'm really surprised.

341 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:22:07pm

Here's a sample of what he wrote:

Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I'll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D If you're a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You're a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I'll let you in on their little cruel joke that's genocidal.

342 Meitantei  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:22:39pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

Crap.

343 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:22:49pm

Dear Sarah step up, be an adult and please take a bit of personal responsibility for your part in how crazy things have gotten. It does not matter why. What matters is that what you said could have resulted in a shooting. As a public figure you have a responsibility for the tone of the conversations. In an effort to tone down the rhetoric you might want to apologize for the targets and vow to never use gun/violent language when it comes to political rivals.
Or make maps.
Maps seem to get you in trouble.
There should be no place in our society for that type of talk.

and I'll begin by apologizing for anything I might have said in the past.
Now it is your turn Sarah.

344 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:22:57pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

Writes like the fuckin' Unibomber.

345 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:23:05pm

re: #315 Charles

If that's his YouTube page, it's exactly what I feared. He's an extreme right wing libertarian type.

freeper?

346 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:23:08pm

re: #332 Ojoe

Political violence is bad if from the right.

Political violence is bad if from the left.

Quoth the MBF.

That's not what I object to.

I object to you saying it as if there has been just as much crazy from the left as from the right in recent years (or at least violent craziness) when there most emphatically has not been.

The right has had more violent crazy actions since Obama was elected....

347 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:23:09pm

"I won't pay debt in a currency not backed by gold or silver"

Ron Paul and Beck all over that statement.

348 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:23:51pm

re: #341 dragonfire1981

Here's a sample of what he wrote:

Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I'll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D If you're a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You're a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I'll let you in on their little cruel joke that's genocidal.

All of it:

Hello, and welcome my classified leak of information that's of the United States Military to the student body and you. Firstly, I want you to understand this from the start. Did you know grammar is double blind, listener? Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I'll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D If you're a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You're a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I'll let you in on their little cruel joke that's genocidal. They're argument is appeal to force on their jurisdiction with lack of proof of evidence. Each subject is in question for the location! The police don't quite get paid correctly with them dirty front runners under section 10? Their country's alliances are able to make illegal trades under section 10. Eh! I'm a Nihilist, not someone who put who put trust in god! What is section 10 you ask? If you make a purchase then it's illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. You make a purchase. Therefore, it's illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Thirdly, tell them mother fuckers to count from 0 to whenever they feel a threat to stop their count. We can all hope they add new numbers and letters to their count down. Did you run out of breath around the trillions, listener? Well, B.C.E is yet to start for Ad to begin! What does this mean for a citizen in any country? Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can't find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous! You shouldn't jump to conclusion with your education plan. The constitution as of now, which is in use by the current power pigs, aren't able to protect the bill of rights! Do you now have enough information to know the two wars are illegal! What is your date of time, listener? Fourthly, those applications that are with background checks break the United States constitution! What's your riot name? I'll catch you! Top secret: Why don't people control the money system? Their Current Currency(1/1) / Your new infinite currency (1/~infinte) This is a selcte information of revoluntary thoughts! Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject

349 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:24:09pm

re: #335 researchok

This guy has had sanity in the rear view mirror for a long time.

You claim its still in his rear view mirror? I say he couldn't find with a google maps and a GPS tracker....

350 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:24:24pm

re: #345 webevintage

freeper?

More of a Ron Paul-Alex Jones type.

351 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:24:44pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

Who is UNIXON and why would he up ding the text in that possible statement from this possible killer? I clipped and pasted that for informational purposes... not in an effort to get anyone to agree or disagree with it.

UNIXON... why the up ding?

352 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:24:51pm

re: #346 jamesfirecat

The right has been more crazy as of late, that is true.

353 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:24:59pm

I will be really curious to see what ol' Glenn Beck has to say about this, although I can already guess at what it will be...

354 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:07pm

re: #344 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Writes like the fuckin' Unibomber.

OK, and was the Unbomber right or left?

----------
Note my #225... have more in common with the other nutcaes from both sides of the political spectrum.

355 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:07pm

re: #343 webevintage

Dear Sarah step up, be an adult and please take a bit of personal responsibility for your part in how crazy things have gotten.

She won't. Palin is always playing victim.

356 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:21pm

The gold references combined with the talk of "currency" and the posting about PIMA CC leads me to speculate that he enrolled in college after returning home from the military and had some serious dropout/financial issues and is in serious debt. He claims to be a "victim of fraud"

357 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:50pm

re: #272 Obdicut

If that's him, he seems really fucking crazy.

Looks like an all too familiar melange of psychosis and wingnut anti-federalist Ron Paulisms.

358 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:55pm

This brings up the question we had about the IRS building plane crasher-How insane does a person have to be to set aside the politics of his act?

At what point does deranged trump the politics, if ever?

359 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:55pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

If that unreadable, unintelligible, paranoid screed is indeed by the Tucson shooter, he's definitely cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

360 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:25:55pm

re: #338 Ojoe

Bad result

all bad really no matter what.

I'd argue its a good result.

The right is never going to stop acting so crazy if something doesn't shock them out of realizing that acting sort of crazy leads to other people taking REALLY CRAZY actions.

The American GOP needs something to get their attention.

If this is it (which sadly I don't believe it will be) then at least the shooters victums won't have suffered in vain....

361 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:09pm

re: #354 Buck

OK, and was the Unbomber right or left?

---
Note my #225... have more in common with the other nutcaes from both sides of the political spectrum.

Clearly right (more precisely right-wing anarcho primitivism). Read his manifesto. Contains some interesting passages about "leftism".

362 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:35pm

re: #354 Buck

OK, and was the Unbomber right or left?

---
Note my #225... have more in common with the other nutcaes from both sides of the political spectrum.

did the unibomber have members of congress making noises about blowing up airplanes? The way the GOP is making noses about "second amendment solutions"?

Mind finding me that congressman?

363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:37pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

I almost dinged myself in gratitude to you for posting it; then I reconsidered.

364 Ericus58  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:40pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

Who is UNIXON and why would he up ding the text in that possible statement from this possible killer? I clipped and pasted that for informational purposes... not in an effort to get anyone to agree or disagree with it.

UNIXON... why the up ding?

possibly like mine as a affirmation of the info you posted. Not in agreement of the crazy words.

365 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:47pm

His one "favourite" video on youtube.

366 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:54pm

re: #350 Killgore Trout

More of a Ron Paul-Alex Jones type.

He also referred to the 2 illegal wars.

367 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:26:54pm

re: #359 talon_262

If that unreadable, unintelligible, paranoid screed is indeed by the Tucson shooter, he's definitely cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

He's definitely a conservative.

368 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:00pm

The more I think about this, the more I doubt the legitimacy of that youtube channel. It was added on October 25, 2010, just before the midterms? I wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes...

369 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:21pm

re: #355 000G

She won't. Palin is always playing victim.

All I know is she is shitting her pants right now.

370 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:24pm

re: #364 Ericus58

possibly like mine as a affirmation of the info you posted. Not in agreement of the crazy words.

YOU UP DINGED ME TOO?

371 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:41pm

re: #358 Rightwingconspirator

This brings up the question we had about the IRS building plane crasher-How insane does a person have to be to set aside the politics of his act?

At what point does deranged trump the politics, if ever?

Insanity provides the energy, politics provides the direction.

372 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:43pm

re: #350 Killgore Trout

More of a Ron Paul-Alex Jones type.

The only thing that is not congruent with that is that he apparently is an atheist.

373 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:51pm

re: #359 talon_262

If that unreadable, unintelligible, paranoid screed is indeed by the Tucson shooter, he's definitely cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

If he wandered into a crowd of people randomly killing people, we really don't need his writings to determine his sanity.
/

374 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:27:59pm

re: #325 Ojoe

If both, then politically neutral. A better result than either side partisan. Let us hope for neutral crazy here.

you just never ever know what you're talking about, dude

375 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:28:14pm

re: #343 webevintage

Dear Sarah step up, be an adult and please take a bit of personal responsibility for your part in how crazy things have gotten. It does not matter why. What matters is that what you said could have resulted in a shooting. As a public figure you have a responsibility for the tone of the conversations. In an effort to tone down the rhetoric you might want to apologize for the targets and vow to never use gun/violent language when it comes to political rivals.
Or make maps.
Maps seem to get you in trouble.
There should be no place in our society for that type of talk.

and I'll begin by apologizing for anything I might have said in the past.
Now it is your turn Sarah.

There's a better chance of discovering porcine aviators before the Sarah apologizes for anything related to this (or anything else).

376 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:28:21pm

Somewhat OT, but thank you folks for making this is a sane, engaging thread discussing an important current event. If you check the comments sections of other news sites carrying this story, it's pure chaos.

377 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:28:25pm

re: #372 000G

The only thing that is not congruent with that is that he apparently is an atheist.

RonpaulAlexjones types are often athiests :P

378 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:28:44pm

re: #368 American-African

What the hell are you talking about? What rabbit hole?

379 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:28:44pm

Rep. Giffords is a supporter of Operation Wolfhound
'Operation Wolfhound' Provides Service Dogs to Veterans with PTSD

380 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:05pm

re: #362 WindUpBird

The whole GOP endorsed that statement from Bachmann? I had no idea.

381 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:08pm

re: #377 WindUpBird

RonpaulAlexjones types are often athiests :P

Beat me to it , ha.

382 Ericus58  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:11pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

YOU UP DINGED ME TOO?

hay - at least I'm not asking to hold hands with ya....

383 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:28pm

re: #372 000G

The only thing that is not congruent with that is that he apparently is an atheist.

What the fuck does that have to do with the price of beans? I'm an atheist and I'm a ranting crazy right wingnut.

384 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:29pm

All his uploads are within the last month on youtube.

385 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:29pm

re: #377 WindUpBird

RonpaulAlexjones types are often athiests :P

I dunno about "often". I know Alex Jones is a creationist.

386 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:41pm

I do hope that the wingnuts tone down the rhetoric a bit, and drop the "Second Amendment solutions" and "watering the tree of Liberty" crap for a while

387 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:29:41pm

This is the Rosetta Stone video, you have to hunt for it:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

He's got a beef with the local CC and that, ombined with right wing anti-government wackjobbery equals "I'll shot a congresswoman because the bill collectors won't leave me alone"

388 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:30:01pm

re: #383 Walter L. Newton

What the fuck does that have to do with the price of beans? I'm an atheist and I'm a ranting crazy right wingnut.

Nothing much, just an observation.

389 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:30:13pm

Yeah, because if it is one thing the far right is know for, it's the atheism.

Having dinner now. Very interesting discussions.

390 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:30:20pm

re: #368 American-African

The more I think about this, the more I doubt the legitimacy of that youtube channel. It was added on October 25, 2010, just before the midterms? I wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes...

lol wut

391 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:30:25pm

re: #378 Obdicut

What the hell are you talking about? What rabbit hole?

That where the wabbit weves!

392 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:30:57pm

re: #387 Jdorfma4

This is the Rosetta Stone video, you have to hunt for it:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

He's got a beef with the local CC and that, ombined with right wing anti-government wackjobbery equals "I'll shot a congresswoman because the bill collectors won't leave me alone"

Yeah that's the section 10 stuff. He basically hates the feds.

393 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:30:57pm

one more, read his profile in youtube. its all past tense. he thought this was a suicide run.

394 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:09pm

re: #386 ralphieboy
If they are smart they will do it. Sometimes the pen is mightier than the sword.

395 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:11pm

A screenshot from his MySpace page before it was scrubbed:

Image: ZZ3FC02BF2.jpg

396 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:17pm

re: #389 HAL2010

Yeah, because if it is one thing the far right is know for, it's the atheism.

Having dinner now. Very interesting discussions.

haha what, a right wing guy can't be athiest?

is there like krylon being pumped into the comments here?

397 kirkspencer  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:23pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

Who is UNIXON and why would he up ding the text in that possible statement from this possible killer? I clipped and pasted that for informational purposes... not in an effort to get anyone to agree or disagree with it.

UNIXON... why the up ding?

Dunno about unixon, but sometimes I upding things with which I may not agree to bring it to other people's attention. See, I assume people are like me. Sometimes I haven't time to read every comment. As a result I'll scroll through looking for remarks that got a few updings and read them, then backfill if necessary to gain context. (I didn't, this time, but only because I was behind enough trying to catch up I saw this remark before doing so.)

398 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:32pm

re: #384 Amory Blaine

Yes. Doesn't that strike you as odd? It feels like someone just threw that up there. Mein Kompf and Communist Manifesto?

399 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:43pm

re: #335 researchok

This guy has had sanity in the rear view mirror for a long time.

And expect his lawyers to claim just that - insanity when he goes on trial for his attempted assassination of the Congresswoman, the murder of the federal judge, the young child, and anyone else who may have died or was injured in connection with this attack.

He clearly wanted a change in currency - not the tangible currency - but the currency of the existing political order. He was apparently looking to overthrow the government and existing polity. That puts him way out on the fringe politically, but that doesn't make him insane.

400 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:31:45pm

And this could be him:

Image: ZZ3195A962.jpg

401 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:02pm

re: #395 Charles

A screenshot from his MySpace page before it was scrubbed:

Image: ZZ3FC02BF2.jpg

Who took that?

402 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:09pm

His myspace link on his Youtube profile wont open.

403 Summer Seale  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:10pm

The Unabomber was a brilliant mathematician with all the charm of a psychotic hermit who dropped acid a few too many times and probably befriended far too many equations in bed during his very late night binges in the world of theoretical matrices.

But for all of that mathematical genius, he was still a psychotic murderer.

This guy, however, doesn't appear to be able to solve for anything outside of how many burgers to put in a happy meal box.

404 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:14pm

re: #395 Charles

A screenshot from his MySpace page before it was scrubbed:

Image: ZZ3FC02BF2.jpg

Jesus...

405 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:22pm

Jimmah!! Tell Ice she must email me! :)

406 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:28pm

re: #390 WindUpBird

I think the youtube channel is a fake.

407 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:29pm

re: #399 lawhawk

And expect his lawyers to claim just that - insanity when he goes on trial for his attempted assassination of the Congresswoman, the murder of the federal judge, the young child, and anyone else who may have died or was injured in connection with this attack.

He clearly wanted a change in currency - not the tangible currency - but the currency of the existing political order. He was apparently looking to overthrow the government and existing polity. That puts him way out on the fringe politically, but that doesn't make him insane.

either he goes to prison or he goes to a padded room where doctors look at him through a tiny window for the rest of his life, really no difference

408 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:32:34pm

re: #395 Charles

Nice catch. You may have a picture of the murder weapon there. Crudely photographed, it's likely his. Might be one of many though.

409 Ericus58  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:00pm

Guest have arrived, and I'll be afk for the most part.
My heart-felt wishes for recovery and a full life to those so tragically hurt. And my sincere prayers for those families who today have lost so much.

410 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:00pm

re: #406 American-African

I think the youtube channel is a fake.

Why?

411 StillAMarine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:01pm

All I can say at this point is to express my hopes and prayers that Representative Giffords makes a full and complete recovery. We all are dreading the worst but hoping for the best at this point.

I do not know much about the shooter except that he appears to be a complete loon who would embarrass the rightmost rightest and the leftmost leftist and all of us in between.

By the way, Charles appears to be more up on the events as they unfold than do the cable services and mainstream media. Congratulations, Charles!

412 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:02pm

re: #387 Jdorfma4

This is the Rosetta Stone video, you have to hunt for it:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

He's got a beef with the local CC and that, ombined with right wing anti-government wackjobbery equals "I'll shot a congresswoman because the bill collectors won't leave me alone"

Stripping away the excess language, it just looks like he wants free services.

413 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:04pm

re: #406 American-African

Why?

414 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:22pm

re: #406 American-African

I think the youtube channel is a fake.

maybe! who knows!

415 Haikugoalie  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:36pm

A lunatic shoots
killing a child and hurts a
defenseless woman

Madness without cause
used to blame and deny e'en
as some fight for life

Stop demonizing
each other for this is what
happens when we do

416 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:37pm

re: #393 Jdorfma4

Very good point - he was premeditated in his actions, and he considered the video channel to be his manifesto - after the fact.

417 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:44pm

re: #410 Obdicut

No way in hell. its way too specific to this guy and the local community. Its him.

418 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:33:57pm

re: #405 Stanley Sea

Jimmah!! Tell Ice she must email me! :)

Will do! If not tonight then definitely tomorrow :)

419 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:34:00pm

re: #410 Obdicut

Oh sorry. GMTA and all that. Good to see that challenged fast.

420 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:34:07pm

re: #406 American-African

I think the youtube channel is a fake.

here's what I do know, crazy people start blasting away at congresspeople, is not an accident, the political rhetoric being used by the GOP as of late is leading directly, precisely to incitement of violence.

421 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:34:53pm

re: #414 WindUpBird

maybe! who knows!

We'll find out tonight at the Alex Jones show – about the shooter being a patsy, how it's all a set-up by gubmint to crack down on the people, yadda yadda ya. I know it's predictable, I am just bringing this up because that's probably the crap the shooter eat for breakfast.

422 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:34:59pm

re: #372 000G

The only thing that is not congruent with that is that he apparently is an atheist.

That's not unusual for libertarians.

423 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:35:13pm

re: #410 Obdicut

The date it was joined, the conflicting favorites (Mein Kompf and Communist Manifesto).

The thing could be real, but part of me still doubts.

424 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:35:32pm

re: #420 WindUpBird

Yes. The concern about violent political rhetoric isn't that well-balanced, normal people are going to go out and shoot people. It's that the nutjobs on the edge will.

425 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:35:47pm

re: #412 jaunte

Stripping away the excess language, it just looks like he wants free services.

///Clearly a welfare queen liberal looking for another government handout...

426 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:35:47pm

re: #262 eclectic infidel

Those aren't mere fighting words - but ones of insurrection.

I hope we aren't in the initial social throes of politically motivated violence.

I hope we aren't but I wouldn't be surprised :(

427 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:35:56pm

re: #422 Killgore Trout

That's not unusual for libertarians.

Well, but you mentioned both Ron Paul and Alex Jones. Both are religious AFAIK.

428 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:36:00pm

re: #421 000G

We'll find out tonight at the Alex Jones show – about the shooter being a patsy, how it's all a set-up by gubmint to crack down on the people, yadda yadda ya. I know it's predictable, I am just bringing this up because that's probably the crap the shooter eat for breakfast.

oh man totally

429 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:36:09pm

re: #423 American-African

honestly, I don't think you're smart enough to be here if you think that page can be faked in under 2 hours.

430 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:36:27pm

re: #399 lawhawk

And expect his lawyers to claim just that - insanity when he goes on trial for his attempted assassination of the Congresswoman, the murder of the federal judge, the young child, and anyone else who may have died or was injured in connection with this attack.

He clearly wanted a change in currency - not the tangible currency - but the currency of the existing political order. He was apparently looking to overthrow the government and existing polity. That puts him way out on the fringe politically, but that doesn't make him insane.

All true,

And he blamed the government for bad grammar and not regulating grammar.

431 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:36:29pm

re: #402 Amory Blaine

His myspace link on his Youtube profile wont open.

Here might be the google cache of his myspace page

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

his name and the nickname he liked "fallenasleep"

432 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:36:43pm

re: #423 American-African

The date it was joined

What about the date is in any way suspicious?

, the conflicting favorites (Mein Kompf and Communist Manifesto).

Those are only conflicting if you view them as favorites in terms of ideology. Lots of extremist types love both those books, because they're both attacking the established order.

The thing could be real, but part of me still doubts.

You haven't actually provided a reason yet.

433 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:36:52pm

re: #406 American-African

I think the youtube channel is a fake.

It was put up a while ago--not just today. Tell me, do you also think the gubmint planted that youtube page?

434 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:37:05pm

re: #425 jamesfirecat

///Clearly a welfare queen liberal looking for another government handout...


Well he's going to get that handout in the form of a cell.

435 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:37:07pm

re: #430 researchok

All true,

And he blamed the government for bad grammar and not regulating grammar.

sucks. Syntax

436 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:37:45pm

re: #424 Obdicut

Yes. The concern about violent political rhetoric isn't that well-balanced, normal people are going to go out and shoot people. It's that the nutjobs on the edge will.

right, the people who are already vulnerable

437 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:37:45pm

re: #434 Amory Blaine

Well he's going to get that handout in the form of a cell.

///Free room and board for the rest of his life, lucky bastard...

438 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:38:06pm

re: #434 Amory Blaine

Well he's going to get that handout in the form of a cell.

Arizona has the death penalty ...right?

439 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:38:14pm

Another picture of Loughner:

[Link: azstarnet.com...]

440 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:38:22pm

re: #423 American-African

Not at all:

My name is Jared Lee Loughner!
Hometown:Tucson
Country:United States
Schools:I attended school: Thornydale elementary,Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.
Interests:My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
Movies:(*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
Music:Pass me the strings!
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

His reading interests are all over the map politically, but the striking thing as pointed out above is that his interests were given in the past tense.

That shows premeditation and that he didn't think he'd survive what he was planning.

441 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:38:46pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

Who is UNIXON and why would he up ding the text in that possible statement from this possible killer? I clipped and pasted that for informational purposes... not in an effort to get anyone to agree or disagree with it.

UNIXON... why the up ding?

Just so everyone knows, I do not support this monster Loughner. I up-dinged the quote because it clearly shows he has a far-right ideology.

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:38:57pm

re: #87 WindUpBird

there's going to be more of this, isn't there

Welcome to the sixties. Do you know where you are?

443 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:39:05pm

Well hell. What a dark day. I think we have all the news we are going to for now, pending the next presser. I have made all the points I want to on this for now. I gotta lay back down and finish this fight with H1N1.

444 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:39:19pm

Irony: The Fox News affiliate in Tuscon has the call letters KGUN.

445 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:39:26pm

re: #429 Jdorfma4

Perhaps I failed to make clear I believe it was created before the midterm elections, but is still a 'fake'. Did I type that slowly enough for you?

446 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:39:30pm

re: #440 lawhawk
You might be correct.

447 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:39:34pm

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

Welcome to the sixties. Do you know where you are?

Music-wise it's more like the 70's, I was hoping we could just skip the assassinations this time around :(

448 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:39:36pm

BreakingNews

NASA sources: Rep. Gifford's astronaut husband, Mark Kelly, lands in Tucson in a NASA jet - NBC

449 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:40:28pm

re: #445 American-African

Perhaps I failed to make clear I believe it was created before the midterm elections, but is still a 'fake'. Did I type that slowly enough for you?

But why do you automatically believe in a conspiracy?

450 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:40:45pm

re: #427 000G

Well, but you mentioned both Ron Paul and Alex Jones. Both are religious AFAIK.

Yeah those two are devout Christians but their fanbase usually isn't. It was funny. Back in 08 when I talked with some of Paul's fans, they would be very dismissive of religion and crap so I had to remidn them that their hero doesn't believe in separation of church and state. I probably got called a sheep for that. Ron Paul fans are really hard to debate with because they think anyone woh doesn't think like them is a sheep. I got called one for pointing out that you can't say the founders would be isolationists in foreign policy today since 2008 was a different world than the late 18th century.

451 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:40:51pm

re: #403 Summer

The Unabomber was a brilliant mathematician with all the charm of a psychotic hermit who dropped acid a few too many times and probably befriended far too many equations in bed during his very late night binges in the world of theoretical matrices.

But for all of that mathematical genius, he was still a psychotic murderer.

This guy, however, doesn't appear to be able to solve for anything outside of how many burgers to put in a happy meal box.

Somehow the whole stupid bizareness of his youtube rants does not add up with his choice selection of favorite books, though:

Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

Just the fact that he seemed to read at all… It looks more like he has a lot of difficulties formulating thoughts and expressing himself than lacking curiosity.

452 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:40:52pm

re: #445 American-African

Perhaps I failed to make clear I believe it was created before the midterm elections, but is still a 'fake'. Did I type that slowly enough for you?

i apologize, you're not too dumb to be here. You're too dumb to be left unattended. go back to alex Jones.

453 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:40:52pm

re: #100 Rightwingconspirator

If for any reason this murderer turns out to be a "Hinkley" shoot, that is to say far more deranged than political some folks out there will be disappointed. An unhealthy response in every instance.

I for one, will be effing relieved. It's already a tragedy. Having a non-political cause, almost no matter what it is, will make it slightly less of one for the country.

454 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:41:00pm

re: #449 Obdicut

But why do you automatically believe in a conspiracy?

Oliver Stone?
//

455 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:41:03pm

re: #439 Charles

Another picture of Loughner:

[Link: azstarnet.com...]

A volunteer at a literary event.

456 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:41:21pm

re: #445 American-African

Perhaps I failed to make clear I believe it was created before the midterm elections, but is still a 'fake'. Did I type that slowly enough for you?

Is there time travel involved?

457 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:41:34pm

re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist

I for one, will be effing relieved. It's already a tragedy. Having a non-political cause, almost no matter what it is, will make it slightly less of one for the country.

Hear Hear.

458 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:41:52pm

re: #451 000G

Just because he posted that list doesn't mean he actually read the books.

459 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:42:16pm

re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist

I for one, will be effing relieved. It's already a tragedy. Having a non-political cause, almost no matter what it is, will make it slightly less of one for the country.

I would like to believe this is an outlier, yes

Right now I don't really believe that! Political rhetoric matters

460 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:42:23pm

re: #445 American-African

Perhaps I failed to make clear I believe it was created before the midterm elections, but is still a 'fake'. Did I type that slowly enough for you?

Ohh...so the gubmint was framing this dupe since before the election, huh. You're sounding as wacko as Mr Loughner.

461 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:42:33pm

re: #450 HappyWarrior

Ron Paul fans are really hard to debate with because they think anyone woh doesn't think like them is a sheep.

Yeah, the flat, dumb irony of that usually hurts too much for me.

462 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:42:33pm

I would think he was a reader if he was a volunteer at a book event.

463 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:42:55pm

re: #458 Charles

Just because he posted that list doesn't mean he actually read the books.

He's as likely to have read them as i did "the Brief History of Time" that resides on my bookshelf.

464 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:43:14pm

re: #450 HappyWarrior

Yeah those two are devout Christians but their fanbase usually isn't. It was funny. Back in 08 when I talked with some of Paul's fans, they would be very dismissive of religion and crap so I had to remidn them that their hero doesn't believe in separation of church and state. I probably got called a sheep for that. Ron Paul fans are really hard to debate with because they think anyone woh doesn't think like them is a sheep. I got called one for pointing out that you can't say the founders would be isolationists in foreign policy today since 2008 was a different world than the late 18th century.

I just basically pull out all the racist connections he has, and then they stop arguing with me

465 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:43:34pm

So is he actually a veteran? Is there any information about that?

466 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:01pm

re: #458 Charles

Just because he posted that list doesn't mean he actually read the books.

It's true, but he still would have to looked up the titles. The act of editing that list together… well, maybe he copypasted it from nutjob he admired.

467 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:04pm

re: #451 000G

Somehow the whole stupid bizareness of his youtube rants does not add up with his choice selection of favorite books, though:

Just the fact that he seemed to read at all… It looks more like he has a lot of difficulties formulating thoughts and expressing himself than lacking curiosity.

these books are picked almost like he's trying to impress a lit geek or something

468 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:08pm

re: #465 Obdicut

So is he actually a veteran? Is there any information about that?

Reports said he was an Afghan vet.

469 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:19pm

re: #465 Obdicut

So is he actually a veteran? Is there any information about that?

Only a reference he makes in his videos to his experiences signing up.

470 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:41pm

re: #466 000G

It's true, but he still would have to looked up the titles. The act of editing that list together… well, maybe he copypasted it from nutjob he admired.

I've read most of those books... I have most of those books... curious.

471 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:51pm

re: #445 American-African

Perhaps I failed to make clear I believe it was created before the midterm elections, but is still a 'fake'. Did I type that slowly enough for you?

Why would someone make a "fake" YouTube page for a person no one ever heard of?

472 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:44:51pm

Sure enough. The Twitter wingnuts are already calling him a "leftist."

473 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:03pm

re: #449 Obdicut

Not a conspiracy with shadowy figures and cloaks and daggers, just that this nutty fruitcake was just listing 'likes' that would make him appear more interesting than he may really be.

474 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:16pm

re: #463 Jdorfma4

He's as likely to have read them as i did "the Brief History of Time" that resides on my bookshelf.

He might be good at intake, less so at processing, and FU at relating. It's not his biggest problem now.

475 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:20pm

re: #458 Charles

And reading the books doesn't imply comprehension either. Besides, those books could have simply come from a reading list assigned in class - not that he actually understood what concepts were involved.

476 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:25pm

re: #472 Charles

Sure enough. The Twitter wingnuts are already calling him a "leftist."

Shocking.
//

477 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:32pm

re: #395 Charles

By the way, who the hell uses Myspace?

478 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:49pm

re: #459 WindUpBird

I would like to believe this is an outlier, yes

Right now I don't really believe that! Political rhetoric matters

This guys is not main stream--that's over the top to suggest that.

479 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:53pm

re: #130 Obdicut

There's two very separate things I see:


2. Condemnation of those who use violent political rhetoric and otherwise contribute to the out-of-control situation in politics.

The former is, well, speculation. The latter is very different.

Two is real, very real

Michelle Bachmann is real, Glenn beck is real, Sharon Angle is real

480 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:45:55pm

re: #472 Charles

Sure enough. The Twitter wingnuts are already calling him a "leftist."

Crazy Pam has decided he's a Nazi/Commie.

481 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:01pm

re: #470 Walter L. Newton

I've read most of those books... I have most of those books... curious.

Same. My writing is more succinct, though.

482 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:09pm

re: #477 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, who the hell uses Myspace?

bands still use it, but yeah :D

483 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:13pm

re: #470 Walter L. Newton

I've read most of those books... I have most of those books... curious.

"Come out with your hands in the air. We have the house surrounded".
//

484 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:21pm

re: #472 Charles

Sure enough. The Twitter wingnuts are already calling him a "leftist."

Well he did list "To Kill A Mockingbird" as one of his favorite books and we all know that what that means....

485 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:46pm

re: #473 American-African

Not a conspiracy with shadowy figures and cloaks and daggers, just that this nutty fruitcake was just listing 'likes' that would make him appear more interesting than he may really be.

Nice attempt at a backpedal. What about the 'rabbit hole', then? What were you alleging with that?

486 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:52pm

re: #473 American-African

Not a conspiracy with shadowy figures and cloaks and daggers, just that this nutty fruitcake was just listing 'likes' that would make him appear more interesting than he may really be.

But you claimed the material was faked, set up... now you say "this nutty fruitcake was just listing..."

Now... did the nutty fruitcake set up the material or someone else like you claimed earlier?

Make up your mind.

487 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:58pm

President Obama is speaking on the shooting.

488 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:46:59pm

Shep Smith: His only currency these days is probably going to be candy and cigarettes in prison.

I really like this guy.

489 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:47:03pm

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

490 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:47:19pm

re: #480 avanti

Crazy Pam has decided he's a Nazi/Commie.

Does she also think he's a mugwump?

perhaps an orc, or maybe an evil wizard

491 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:47:36pm

re: #484 webevintage

Well he did list "To Kill A Mockingbird" as one of his favorite books and we all know that what that means...

Boo Radley!

492 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:47:54pm

re: #489 Charles

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

I wonder why she would do that?

493 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:48:04pm

re: #473 American-African

Not a conspiracy with shadowy figures and cloaks and daggers, just that this nutty fruitcake was just listing 'likes' that would make him appear more interesting than he may really be.

Ahhhhh, he made a fake YouTube page for himself...
Someone lying on the internet...that never happens.

494 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:48:19pm

re: #489 Charles

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

She knows her rhetoric was stupid. Now whether she will actually admit is anotehr story.

495 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:48:33pm

re: #489 Charles

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

She's replacing it with one that says "Don't retract, delete!"

496 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:48:51pm

re: #489 Charles

DAMn they move fast

it's so interesting seeing the backpedal from the violent rhetoric in real time, and how clearly they know exactly which things to pull

497 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:49:20pm

re: #485 Obdicut

I was suggesting that this individual deliberately set up this page, knowing he was going to commit this heinous act, with a bunch of information that is not true.

Not backpedaling.

498 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:49:20pm

re: #495 elizajane

She's replacing it with one that says "Don't retract, delete!"

More work for the Ministry of Truth.

499 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:49:32pm

re: #491 wrenchwench

Boo Radley!

I wonder what AB thinks of this?

500 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:49:38pm

re: #126 EmmmieG

Jefferson's support of the French Revolution was not his finest hour.

My understanding is he supported it when it started. And it would be tough to fault him. The Bourbon monarchy was as corrupt and incompetent as they come.

To my knowledge he did not support The Terror. It sickened him as much as it does us today.

And Napoleon is one of the few people Jefferson actually hated.

501 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:49:54pm

re: #497 American-African

And the point of that would be?

502 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:50:09pm

re: #490 WindUpBird

Does she also think he's a mugwump?

perhaps an orc, or maybe an evil wizard

He's obviously a Czarist commie. Heh reminds me of my favorite stupid criticisms of Obama. Some wingnut was bitching about the many "czars" the administration has and equated czarism with Communism. It was like no silly wingnut, the czars were probably actually the most anti Communist government of all time.

503 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:50:10pm

re: #498 Decatur Deb

More work for the Ministry of Truth.

too bad the internet takes screenshots

504 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:50:41pm

re: #489 Charles

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

It's such a shame that it took something like this for her to take the criticism seriously.

505 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:50:58pm

re: #502 HappyWarrior

He's obviously a Czarist commie. Heh reminds me of my favorite stupid criticisms of Obama. Some wingnut was bitching about the many "czars" the administration has and equated czarism with Communism. It was like no silly wingnut, the czars were probably actually the most anti Communist government of all time.

I just can't even begin to keep up with he lack of education with people like that

it's like they still think the sun revolves around the earth

506 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:51:05pm

re: #488 Dante41

Shep Smith: His only currency these days is probably going to be candy and cigarettes in prison.

I really like this guy.

Shep Smith is a lone vessel of reasonableness adrift on the ocean of partisanship that is Fox news....

507 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:51:11pm

re: #272 Obdicut

If that's him, he seems really fucking crazy.

This may be the perp's Facebook page

508 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:51:18pm

re: #149 HAL2010

The shooter was born in 1988. according to the live feed on KOLD.

That makes him 22.

Well, at least it's not the family member I thought of when they said 'Afghan vet' then, so my life is already looking up!

///oh shit

509 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:51:50pm

re: #505 WindUpBird

it's like they still think the sun revolves around the earth

They just want to teach the controversy.

510 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:02pm

re: #509 000G

They just want to teach the controversy.

hahaha

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:25pm

re: #161 marjoriemoon

Oh thank you, God. Thank you! Thank you!

From Huffpo

3:44 PM ET State Senator: Giffords Through Surgery, 'Responding To Commands'

Via Brian Stelter, state senator Linda Lopez tells Fox, "We just heard that [Giffords] is responding to commands. She made it through surgery."

Baruch Hashem.

512 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:25pm

If no one has posted it yet, some info about Giffords, from the 2nd page of this article:


Giffords, a representative for Arizona's 8th District who just won reelection to a third term, has been the target of conservative political opponents in recent months.

In March of last year, Giffords' office was vandalized just after she voted in favor of the health care reform law. The intruders destroyed a glass door and a window at her Tucson Congressional offices.

At the time, Giffords' press secretary C.J. Karamargin said the office had received many phone calls with "nasty and rude and hateful comments" from opponents of the health care bill.


Recently Giffords, who supports gun rights, has been receiving angry letters from anonymous sources, ranting about the supposed national gun registry and border control.

One letter received on Dec. 15 addressed to "giffords, obama, mccain and sen. Jon kyl" got personal on the topic of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry, who was killed in a late night shootout at the U.S.-Mexican border.

"Brian a Terry's blood is on your hands! How many more legal residents of the USA have to die before the border is CLOSED??? Obama I call you out! CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER NOW! Quit pandering to illegals!," the letter read.

Giffords has a reputation as a political rebel. She voted with the Democratic party about 40 percent of the time, according to Congressional Quarterly.

She was also one of two Democrats who did not vote for Nancy Pelosi for speaker of the house, during the recent Democratic leadership elections.

What an awful, awful thing, this shooting.

513 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:41pm

re: #506 jamesfirecat

Shep Smith is a lone vessel of reasonableness adrift on the ocean of partisanship that is Fox news...

He's one of the few actual newsmen left. Notice how they have him covering this?

514 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:44pm

re: #509 000G

I desperately want this tshirt Image: periodic.gif

515 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:53pm

re: #501 Obdicut

Remember the other domestic terrorist who flew that plane into the IRS building? Well perhaps this nut didn't want everyone to dismiss him immediately as another right wing wacko.

516 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:52:58pm

re: #500 Romantic Heretic

My understanding is he supported it when it started. And it would be tough to fault him. The Bourbon monarchy was as corrupt and incompetent as they come.

To my knowledge he did not support The Terror. It sickened him as much as it does us today.

And Napoleon is one of the few people Jefferson actually hated.

That sounds right to me. And I agree the French Revolution itself was justified. The end results and the Terror, of course not. I feel the same way about the Russian and Chinese revolutions.

517 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:00pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist
Amen

518 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:07pm

re: #507 Reginald Perrin


Now THAT's A FAKE. Created today

519 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:16pm

re: #507 Reginald Perrin

Looks like a fake to me.

520 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:24pm

Did anyone have any doubt that no matter what facts were actually found out about the shooter, his motives, and the event in general, that the Conservative cult media would not immediately start insisting that he was a 'leftist' and then repeat that until it became a fact?

Remember, one of the central tenets of the faith is that liberals are violent and dangerous. And that all evils are due to liberals. Not some, all.

521 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:26pm

re: #167 HAL2010

Sarah Palins sites are being scrubbed faster than fast.

Among the images being removed.

i.imgur.com...]>Disgusting.

Regardless of the shooter's motivation, looks like someone realized how bad this looked.

522 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:34pm

re: #504 Killgore Trout

It's such a shame that it took something like this for her to take the criticism seriously.

usually the case....you need a disaster to clean up and move forward...livin on the edge

523 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:53:36pm

BTW, Palin's target map was tasteless but it's not the problem. Her comment yesterday that Obama and the Dems are intentionally destroying the country is much more dangerous. It's common wingnut rhetoric and eventually some people on the edge are really going to start believing stuff like that. It's very dangerous.

524 frizzlefry  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:54:09pm

Sounds like a garden variety basket case to me. Just like those VA Tech/Columbine/Unabomber types. Doesn't sound like a Palin fan or "tea-bagger" to me. Don't mean to rain on your hard ons, people.
Sorry Charles....don't know how much mileage you'll be able to get out of this one.

525 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:54:43pm

re: #507 Reginald Perrin

This may be the perp's Facebook page

Spelled wrong, and the way people thought it was spelled a couple of hours ago.

526 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:54:46pm

re: #521 SanFranciscoZionist

Regardless of the shooter's motivation, looks like someone realized how bad this looked.

Or IMHO, always knew how bad it looked, but kept it up there right up until the moment it could be seen as inciting a real actual murder

527 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:55:11pm

re: #523 Killgore Trout

BTW, Palin's target map was tasteless but it's not the problem. Her comment yesterday that Obama and the Dems are intentionally destroying the country is much more dangerous. It's common wingnut rhetoric and eventually some people on the edge are really going to start believing stuff like that. It's very dangerous.

I know a lot of people who believe their own rhetoric.

To be perfectly honest, I am kind of surprised that this kind of thing hasn't happened any sooner.

528 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:55:24pm

re: #515 American-African

Remember the other domestic terrorist who flew that plane into the IRS building? Well perhaps this nut didn't want everyone to dismiss him immediately as another right wing wacko.

And? How would his posting videos babbling insane Ron Paul style crap help to hedge against that?

You are making no sense at all.

529 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:55:51pm

re: #524 frizzlefry

Sounds like a garden variety basket case to me. Just like those VA Tech/Columbine/Unabomber types. Doesn't sound like a Palin fan or "tea-bagger" to me. Don't mean to rain on your hard ons, people.
Sorry Charles...don't know how much mileage you'll be able to get out of this one.

you didn't read the thread at all, did you

nice attempt at a troll, sort of a C+, but we'll send you some nice parting gifts

530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:55:52pm

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is out of surgery and one of her surgeons said "I'm very optimistic about her recovery."

"She was shot one time in the head through and through," Dr. Peter Rhee said at an afternoon news conference at University Medical Center in Tucson.

The bullet entered one side of her head and exited the other after passing through her brain, Rhee said.

Well, I can tell you this much, she's tough as hell.

531 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:55:55pm

Sadly, this was a bomb waiting to detonate.

Happy now, Sarah?

532 Irenicum  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:56:05pm

I find it interesting that Sarah is busy scrubbing her site of any incriminating visuals or verbiage, as I'm sure many other far right sites are doing right now, all the while saying this has no connection to them in any way. Hmmm.

533 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:56:12pm

re: #524 frizzlefry

Sounds like a garden variety basket case to me. Just like those VA Tech/Columbine/Unabomber types. Doesn't sound like a Palin fan or "tea-bagger" to me. Don't mean to rain on your hard ons, people.
Sorry Charles...don't know how much mileage you'll be able to get out of this one.

What brings you to this conclusion?

I'm not saying you're wrong I just want you to support your argument?

What evidence do you see for him just being a garden variety basket case?

What evidence would you need to see for him to be considered a Palin Fan or Tea-Bagger?

534 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:56:18pm

re: #523 Killgore Trout

Sarah should do this: Think before you speak but do not speak about everything you think. I doubt she will

535 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:56:58pm

re: #195 SeafoodGumbo

It sure is sad to see so many people trying to make political hay out of this before the facts are in. I await your ugly deluge of comments. I'll check out a few before this filthy teabagger goes to watch the Saints game.

It sure is sad to see you doing damage control before the Congresswoman is out of surgery. You do understand that you aren't the victim here, right?

536 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:57:12pm

re: #497 American-African

I was suggesting that this individual deliberately set up this page, knowing he was going to commit this heinous act, with a bunch of information that is not true.

Not backpedaling.

I highly doubt the YouTube account was created for the purpose of smearing him. It's been active for 3 months and the last video was uploaded 3 weeks ago.

537 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:57:20pm

Posted at Sarah Palin's Facebook page:

Image: ZZ165CCEF5.jpg

538 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:07pm

re: #537 Charles

Posted at Sarah Palin's Facebook page:

Image: ZZ165CCEF5.jpg

With supporters like that who needs enemies?

539 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:09pm

re: #537 Charles

Posted at Sarah Palin's Facebook page:

Image: ZZ165CCEF5.jpg

Sick, sick fucks those kind of people are.

540 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:16pm

re: #535 SanFranciscoZionist

Misapprehended victimhood is an ongoing problem.

541 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:23pm

re: #519 Charles


It was found on a comment at TPM and I wasn't sure, so that is why I used the words, "may be the perp.
Believe it or not, I am one of the few who still doesn't have a Facebook account.

542 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:23pm

re: #537 Charles

OY Vey

543 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:34pm

re: #539 commadore183

Sick, sick fucks those kind of people are.

or that person.....right?

544 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:58:57pm

Has Pamela Geller commented on this yet?

545 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:06pm

This guy needs to be alive and talking for a long time. The same was true of Oswald and McVeigh.

546 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:11pm

re: #535 SanFranciscoZionist

It sure is sad to see you doing damage control before the Congresswoman is out of surgery. You do understand that you aren't the victim here, right?

everybody is a victim here...stuff this heinous has an effect on the entire nation, but you knew that

547 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:17pm

NYT is reporting that a total of six were killed, including Federal Judge Roll, and 18 total were shot in the hail of bullets fired by Laughner.

548 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:38pm

re: #543 Buck

or that person...right?

What do you mean by asking this question exactly Buck?

I don't get what you're trying to bring up?

Are you trying to say that Sarah Palin only has one loony supporter?

549 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:39pm

AZ Governor Jan Brewer speaking now.

550 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:56pm

re: #519 Charles

Looks like a fake to me.

I second that.

551 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 1:59:59pm

re: #544 dragonfire1981

Has Pamela Geller commented on this yet?

Yes, Commie/Nazi loon did it.

552 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:00:25pm

re: #551 avanti

Yes, Commie/Nazi loon did it.

But not a Muslim Commie Nazi loon?

553 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:00:28pm

re: #528 Obdicut

I too watched the videos, read the profile information and list of books, and am still talking about this murderer and terrorist. When information about the IRS attacker was revealed, there was far less debate about him.

554 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:00:45pm

re: #537 Charles

Posted at Sarah Palin's Facebook page:

Image: ZZ165CCEF5.jpg

An obvious Alinsky provocateur!!11!

555 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:01:08pm

re: #539 commadore183

Sick, sick fucks those kind of people are.

I'd love to get my hands on that keyboard soldier...just for one minute

556 b_Snark  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:01:14pm

My condolences to all my American friends.

I hope your politicians take this as a portent of the only possible future if the rhetoric is not tuned down considerably and cooperation made a goal.

557 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:01:32pm

re: #538 jamesfirecat

With supporters like that who needs enemies?

That quote is so outrageous, I'd like to belive it's fake.

558 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:01:50pm

The latest from The Wall Street Journal: [Link: online.wsj.com...]

559 Irenicum  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:01:57pm

I'm sure "false flag" lingo will percolate up soon enough from the far right. It always does.

560 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:00pm

I feel for Gov. Brewer.... Rep Giffords is a good friend of hers.
Evidently the news from the hospital is now very good, and she is expected to make a complete recovery.
Thank God.

561 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #553 American-African

You are making no sense and clearly just obfuscating at this point. Whatever.

562 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:07pm

re: #440 lawhawk

Not at all:

His reading interests are all over the map politically, but the striking thing as pointed out above is that his interests were given in the past tense.

That shows premeditation and that he didn't think he'd survive what he was planning.

Exactly...sounds like he was planning to go out in a blaze of glory, striking a fatal blow against The System. Thankfully, he didn't get his wish and will be put on trial and (hopefully) put away for the rest of his life.

563 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:24pm

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... from a 01-06-2011 diary at KOS...

Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Coincidence?

"Dead to me" is a common phrase used for people you're angry with. It doesn't imply actually killing that person.

Your post is a classic diversionary tactic. Somebody on the other side is bad, so let's ignore the mountain of evidence that supports another conclusion.

Same kind of thinking that leads to AGW denial.

564 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:38pm

re: #557 avanti

That quote is so outrageous, I'd like to belive it's fake.

I think it might be.

565 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:46pm

re: #559 Irenicum

I'm sure "false flag" lingo will percolate up soon enough from the far right. It always does.

It already is. The #tcot feed on Twitter is just unreal.

566 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:49pm

Posted on his Facebook page:

Likes:

Other Tea Party patriots
Sara Palin

567 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:02:59pm

re: #557 avanti

That quote is so outrageous, I'd like to belive it's fake.

Well we should try to look at the face book page of whoever left it and see what we can find out from that if possible.

Poe's Law springs eternal....

568 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:09pm

re: #566 austin_blue


Almost certainly a fake page.

569 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:14pm

re: #557 avanti

That quote is so outrageous, I'd like to belive it's fake.

so would I, but I doubt it, even if it's a teenager it deserves instant...attention

570 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:21pm

re: #560 tradewind

No responsible doctor would be talking about expectations of complete recovery if the bullet actually traveled through the brain. Where are you getting that from?

571 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:22pm

re: #566 austin_blue

No, that was a fake page.

572 Dante41  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:35pm

re: #566 austin_blue

Posted on his Facebook page:

Likes:

Other Tea Party patriots
Sara Palin

Pretty sure that's fake. He had a Myspace one that was already taken down.

573 American-African  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:37pm

re: #561 Obdicut

clearly obfuscating... that was clever.

574 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:38pm

re: #557 avanti

That quote is so outrageous, I'd like to belive it's fake.

re: #564 BryanS

I think it might be.

Give me ten minutes at my local barber shop, and I'll get you two versions of it.

575 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:03:47pm

re: #561 Obdicut

You are making no sense and clearly just obfuscating at this point. Whatever.

I agree with you Obdi... but the "whatever" belongs to me. I haven't use "yawn" in a while... that may have gone public domain on LGF.

576 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:04:16pm

re: #561 Obdicut

You are making no sense and clearly just obfuscating at this point. Whatever.

sometimes you're the fish, sometimes you're the bait

577 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:04:23pm

re: #440 lawhawk
Obviously a paranoid schizophrenic. At least he wasn't ' striking a blow for God '....( since he said he had no trust in Him).

578 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:04:32pm

re: #571 Charles

Good. I'm glad to see that is true.

It's bad enough already.

579 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:04:45pm

re: #566 austin_blue

Posted on his Facebook page:

Likes:

Other Tea Party patriots
Sara Palin

And he also misspelled his own name on that page...wow is he wacko ///

580 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:04pm

re: #570 Obdicut

No responsible doctor would be talking about expectations of complete recovery if the bullet actually traveled through the brain. Where are you getting that from?

What about that guy who got an entire railroad spike through his head and then managed to survive it even if he became anti social and more interested in animals than other people?

Its down right disturbing some of the things the human body can survive sometimes....

581 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:13pm

re: #560 tradewind

I feel for Gov. Brewer... Rep Giffords is a good friend of hers.
Evidently the news from the hospital is now very good, and she is expected to make a complete recovery.
Thank God.

oh man...terrific news...wow, what a stroke of pure luck

582 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:23pm

re: #565 Charles

It already is. The #tcot feed on Twitter is just unreal.

Is it any worse than watching the freaks at infowars/prisonplanet?:

There is no evidence of any Tea Party/Ron Paul/patriot movement affiliation, much to the disappointment of the Huffington Post, but Fox News and others are hastily building his profile as a nutcase conspiracy theorist.

583 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:24pm

re: #565 Charles

It already is. The #tcot feed on Twitter is just unreal.

We called it Moby when they were doing it to this site.

584 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:43pm

re: #570 Obdicut

No responsible doctor would be talking about expectations of complete recovery if the bullet actually traveled through the brain. Where are you getting that from?

That was the info releases at the press conference streamed on KOLD.

585 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:44pm

re: #538 jamesfirecat
Didn't even spell her ( uncomplicated) name correctly, and I doubt that's anything but a troll.

586 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:05:45pm

Didn't one of ya already post something on Palin's page from a "Mark Kerr", maybe it is fake, maybe it isn't. I see people make a lot of sick ass comemnts on yahoo but on facebook you're using your real name and stuff. I saw Charles' screenshot. The photo looked real enough.

587 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:06:19pm

re: #580 jamesfirecat

Sure. Possible. But no responsible doctor would say 'expected' at this point.

What I can find is a doctor saying that he's 'very optimistic about her recovery'. Which is a world of difference.

588 insanity police  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:06:36pm

I wonder how much right wing anti-semitism played into this attack? A Jewish congresswoman shot by a guy who lists mein kampf as one of his favorite books.

589 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:06:52pm

re: #586 HappyWarrior

Didn't one of ya already post something on Palin's page from a "Mark Kerr", maybe it is fake, maybe it isn't. I see people make a lot of sick ass comemnts on yahoo but on facebook you're using your real name and stuff. I saw Charles' screenshot. The photo looked real enough.

Can't find a Mark Kerr with that profile pic on FB now...

590 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:03pm

re: #586 HappyWarrior

Didn't one of ya already post something on Palin's page from a "Mark Kerr", maybe it is fake, maybe it isn't. I see people make a lot of sick ass comemnts on yahoo but on facebook you're using your real name and stuff. I saw Charles' screenshot. The photo looked real enough.

Moi. Last thread.

591 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:13pm

re: #570 Obdicut
No one with any medical knowledge would make that statement.
People have entire sections of brain matter removed for various reasons ( tumor, epilepsy) and retain full mental capacity. The bullet is not even lodged.

592 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:22pm

re: #565 Charles

It already is. The #tcot feed on Twitter is just unreal.

Freepers are getting into the act as well:

My guess is “false flag” incident. The Kenyan will probably put forth the notion that her seat should be filled by appointment. If Brewer takes the bait, it will be pretty much the end of the House of Representatives and we will officially be in the land of banana republic.
Of course, that’s a conspiracy theory, and we all know, no one in Obama’s administration would sacrifice a wobbly blue-dog for power. I mean, that’s kookery.
The only acceptable explanation is that this is a right-winger Tea Party Extremist.
If that’s the prevailing explanation, they will use it to crack down on gun rights.
Regardless of who did it, the government will use it to take power away from you and further tighten your shackles. You are their slave. They’re getting to the point where the trappings of freedom and democracy are becoming less and less useful.
This incident will be used against you, the American slave, regardles of who did it or why.
12 posted on Sat 08 Jan 2011 01:30:40 PM CST by MichiganConservative (Terrorists don't commit genocide. That's what governments do.)

593 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:35pm

re: #577 tradewind

Obviously a paranoid schizophrenic. At least he wasn't ' striking a blow for God '...( since he said he had no trust in Him).

How do you diagnose paranoid schizophrenic? In the two long screeds I read of his, and the 3 short videos (about currency and mind control)... I say none of the classical DMS traits that would describe a paranoid schizophrenic. And it takes a good psychologist 6 to 8 months to properly diagnose paranoid schizophrenia.

Please don't throw that term around indiscriminately.

594 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:45pm

re: #489 Charles

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

Down the Memory Hole the tweets will go
When the wacko nutjobs mow (people down)

595 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:56pm

For those of you who were asking (and I really thank you for your concerns), I heard from my mom and she's fine. Her rabbi got the news during the service that Gabrielle had died! Which was quite a shock for the congregation, of course, because they all know her. She has attended services there. But then, of course, found out that she was going through surgery.

Mom said she has a lot of these public townhall meetings. She always felt it important to make herself available to the public she represents.

We're still praying, like I know you all are, for everyone who's been hurt by this horrific tragedy.

596 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:57pm

re: #590 Stanley Sea

Moi. Last thread.

Ah that's right.

597 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:07:58pm

re: #587 Obdicut

Sure. Possible. But no responsible doctor would say 'expected' at this point.

What I can find is a doctor saying that he's 'very optimistic about her recovery'. Which is a world of difference.

I think that is actually what was said--very optimistic about her recovery.

598 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:08:29pm

re: #583 Buck

We called it Moby when they were doing it to this site.

But it's not a Moby. You don't understand how this works, do you?

599 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:08:29pm

re: #587 Obdicut

Sure. Possible. But no responsible doctor would say 'expected' at this point.

What I can find is a doctor saying that he's 'very optimistic about her recovery'. Which is a world of difference.

I like to just go with the flow and see what developes...reduces tension and makes for a more enjoyable blog experience

600 blueraven  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:08:34pm

re: #523 Killgore Trout

BTW, Palin's target map was tasteless but it's not the problem. Her comment yesterday that Obama and the Dems are intentionally destroying the country is much more dangerous. It's common wingnut rhetoric and eventually some people on the edge are really going to start believing stuff like that. It's very dangerous.

I dont know KT. I think the combination is dangerous. People complained at the time of that map that all it would take was one crazy fuck to take her literally.

I am not blaming her for this incident, but she bears some responsibility for the insane rhetoric. The worst case scenario of these incendiary words and actions has occurred today.

601 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:08:51pm

re: #591 tradewind

No one with any medical knowledge would make that statement.

Would make what statement?

602 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:08:52pm

For what it's worth - while we should be thankful that assassinations aren't an everyday occurrence here in the US, they aren't uncommon either. They happen with frightening frequency actually - like clockwork really.

re: #566 austin_blue

That looks like a bogus page..

603 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:09:09pm

Could be anybody. Mark Kerr is a MMA fighter. Maybe a fan of his?

604 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:09:09pm

re: #595 marjoriemoon

For those of you who were asking (and I really thank you for your concerns), I heard from my mom and she's fine. Her rabbi got the news during the service that Gabrielle had died! Which was quite a shock for the congregation, of course, because they all know her. She has attended services there. But then, of course, found out that she was going through surgery.

Mom said she has a lot of these public townhall meetings. She always felt it important to make herself available to the public she represents.

We're still praying, like I know you all are, for everyone who's been hurt by this horrific tragedy.

S... did she give you a piece of her mind for not calling sooner :)

605 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:09:19pm

Headline on Geller's site:

Arizona Shooter Jared Laughner Loughner: A Certified Lefty Nut - His Videos, Favorite Books: Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf

This is from his youtube channel. Total lefty loon.

606 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:09:32pm

re: #251 jaunte

Giffords' brother in law is currently in orbit on the International Space Station.

Shit. Not a good time to be in orbit. Her husband is also NASA, right?

607 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:09:56pm

re: #593 Walter L. Newton
You are of course correct.
Just my first thoughts, reading his ramble.
No one can diagnose over the air.

608 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:10:02pm

re: #530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is out of surgery and one of her surgeons said "I'm very optimistic about her recovery."

"She was shot one time in the head through and through," Dr. Peter Rhee said at an afternoon news conference at University Medical Center in Tucson.

The bullet entered one side of her head and exited the other after passing through her brain, Rhee said.

Well, I can tell you this much, she's tough as hell.

And lucky, to boot...time will tell how she (and others) recover and deal with this.

609 Summer Seale  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:10:02pm

The right wing is so utterly convinced that this is a left wing guy that Sarah Palin is deleting her tweets for....exactly what reason again?

Not sure I can make that "leap of faith", Atheist that I am....

Next, they'll be trying to tell us that there are five lights.

610 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:10:05pm

re: #593 Walter L. Newton

How do you diagnose paranoid schizophrenic? In the two long screeds I read of his, and the 3 short videos (about currency and mind control)... I say none of the classical DMS traits that would describe a paranoid schizophrenic. And it takes a good psychologist 6 to 8 months to properly diagnose paranoid schizophrenia.

Please don't throw that term around indiscriminately.

Thank you for that. While it may not necessarily take that long to make that kind of diagnosis, it sure as hell cannot be done from a distance.

611 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:10:41pm

re: #598 Walter L. Newton

But it's not a Moby. You don't understand how this works, do you?

I am talking about the Mark Kerr thing,

I do understand how the Moby thing worked. People would come here and leave horrible comments that were meant to 'catch us' as racists.

612 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:10:52pm

re: #604 Walter L. Newton

S... did she give you a piece of her mind for not calling sooner :)

hehe I should give her a piece of my mind for not turning on her cell!

I'm actually thankful she's an older lady who doesn't like to stand in the sun and doesn't attend these rallies....

613 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:00pm

re: #537 Charles

Posted at Sarah Palin's Facebook page:

Image: ZZ165CCEF5.jpg

What.The.Fuck?!?

614 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:03pm

re: #608 talon_262

Yeah. I should've said lucky to. With brain injuries, tough comes in the rehab.

615 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:10pm

re: #605 dragonfire1981

Headline on Geller's site:

Arizona Shooter Jared Laughner Loughner: A Certified Lefty Nut - His Videos, Favorite Books: Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf

This is from his youtube channel. Total lefty loon.

Itz totez teh librlz fault!!11

616 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:14pm

re: #605 dragonfire1981
Oh, you just know that has to be a mistake.
Has Conservative Christian Kook written all over him, doesn't he?
/dripping/

617 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:23pm

re: #606 SanFranciscoZionist

Shit. Not a good time to be in orbit. Her husband is also NASA, right?

He flew to Tucson from Houston and is there now.

618 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:23pm

I am sick to my stomach!

619 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:29pm

re: #591 tradewind

No one with any medical knowledge would make that statement. People have entire sections of brain matter removed for various reasons ( tumor, epilepsy) and retain full mental capacity. The bullet is not even lodged.

And no one would make the statement "paranoid schizophrenic" without more historical, medical and psychological information about this person. You did.

620 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:11:47pm

re: #614 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

too. Dang it!

621 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:12:11pm

re: #612 marjoriemoon

hehe I should give her a piece of my mind for not turning on her cell!

I'm actually thankful she's an older lady who doesn't like to stand in the sun and doesn't attend these rallies...

Good for her... good for you.

622 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:12:12pm

re: #218 BryanS

22 yr old suspect has a "criminal past"--according to local AZ streaming news.

NEWSFLASH! Wow, a guy who just tried to kill 18 people has a criminal record? Is that some sort of surprise?

623 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:12:13pm

re: #606 SanFranciscoZionist

Shit. Not a good time to be in orbit. Her husband is also NASA, right?

yes.

624 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:12:57pm

Was this already reported in here?:

"Help remove Gabrille Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly"

[Link: yfrog.com...]

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

625 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:12:57pm

re: #623 reine.de.tout

No, her Brother in Law is

626 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:13:04pm

re: #600 blueraven

I dont know KT. I think the combination is dangerous. People complained at the time of that map that all it would take was one crazy fuck to take her literally.

I am not blaming her for this incident, but she bears some responsibility for the insane rhetoric. The worst case scenario of these incendiary words and actions has occurred today.

there is all sorts of crazy shit on the net, the shooter had choices...just because Palin is nuts doesn't mean the next person need be...she has contributed to a degrading environment, but many people do...he pulled the trigger....it's a fragile thing

627 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:13:25pm

re: #258 HAL2010

Problem with brain injuries is that you never know. Her whole personality could have been radically altered.
For everyone, I hope she makes a full recovery.

Gunshot injury to the brain, never good.

But if she's responding to commands, that's pretty damn good news.

628 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:13:34pm

re: #592 RadicalModerate

Freepers are getting into the act as well:

Ugghhhhhh...

/the stupid, it burns

629 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:13:49pm

re: #583 Buck

We called it Moby when they were doing it to this site.

Oh please.

630 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:13:57pm

Did they confirm he's an Afghan vet? I'm watching CNN on the telly.

631 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:13:57pm

re: #619 Walter L. Newton
I've already conceded your point , Walter.
Did ya miss it?

632 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:00pm

re: #605 dragonfire1981

Headline on Geller's site:

Arizona Shooter Jared Laughner Loughner: A Certified Lefty Nut - His Videos, Favorite Books: Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf

This is from his youtube channel. Total lefty loon.

Doesn't she know that lefties hate Hitler and were his big opponents in his rsie to power? For crying out loud, the German left supported Paul Hindenberg over Hitler in 1932. Pam doesn't know shit about German history at all. And it should be pointed out just because his favorite books have some lefty titles in them doesn't mean he's a lefty just like him having favorite books by rightists means he's a rightist. His words however make it more likely he's a rightist. I am fascinated by dictators and a book I recently enjoyed was a biography of Stalin before he was in charge of the USSR. That doesn't make me a Stalinist or even a Communist.

633 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:05pm

re: #610 researchok

Thank you for that. While it may not necessarily take that long to make that kind of diagnosis, it sure as hell cannot be done from a distance.

Of course it does... at 150 dollars a visit, one a week, no psychologist work his salt is going to come up with a diagnoses of paranoid schizophrenic in anything shorter than 6 months before giving up the fat fee to the bottle of psycho-active drugs.

Come on... everyone has to make a little scratch off the patient.

634 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:14pm

re: #625 Jdorfma4

No, her Brother in Law is

Husband

635 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:21pm

re: #625 Jdorfma4
Her brother-in-law and her husband are both NASA, and they are twins.

636 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:23pm

More crazy from Palin's Facebook comments.
Cameron Kuss
Thank you Sister Sarah for felony poaching in Alaska AND for last March providing targeting info in the "Lower 48" for violent encroachment of our troubled democracy. Notice Congresswomen Giffords was targeted. Free thinkers of US democracy... (especially any on Sarah's list) : Watch out and be prepared to die for your country, truth and democracy.
Semper Fi

I can't decide if these folks are serious or being sarcastic....the comments get scrubbed do fast.

637 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:28pm

re: #588 insanity police

I wonder how much right wing anti-semitism played into this attack? A Jewish congresswoman shot by a guy who lists mein kampf as one of his favorite books.

It could be an issue. The Gold standard nuts often think the Federal Reserve is part of a conspiracy of Jewish bankers.

638 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:31pm

re: #625 Jdorfma4

No, her Brother in Law is


Giffords is married to astronaut Mark E. Kelly, who has piloted space shuttles Endeavour and Discovery. The two met in China in 2003 while they were serving on a committee there, and were married in January 2007.
639 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:34pm

re: #627 SanFranciscoZionist

The biggest danger now is bleeding and swelling in the brain post-op.

640 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:14:58pm

You've seen him before...

Image: 480px-Mark_E._Kelly.jpg

641 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:15:14pm

zany pro-violent tweets on twitter:


daveposh Is today's incident in AZ driving another nail into the coffin of the liberal, socialist, progressive, communist movement? I think so. #tcot

wheeeeee

642 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:15:17pm

re: #622 palomino

NEWSFLASH! Wow, a guy who just tried to kill 18 people has a criminal record? Is that some sort of surprise?

It wouldn't be...I'm curious what the "criminal past" entailed.

643 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:15:25pm

Mom said they just passed a law that you can bring guns into bars now. Isn't that special,

644 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:15:43pm

re: #636 webevintage

Her facebook page has been verry verry interesting today. Oh to be in her living room right now.

645 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:15:45pm

re: #633 Walter L. Newton

Of course it does... at 150 dollars a visit, one a week, no psychologist work his salt is going to come up with a diagnoses of paranoid schizophrenic in anything shorter than 6 months before giving up the fat fee to the bottle of psycho-active drugs.

Come on... everyone has to make a little scratch off the patient.

There is a segment of clinical guys who call guys like him 'job security'.

I wish I were kidding about that.

646 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:24pm

re: #622 palomino

NEWSFLASH! Wow, a guy who just tried to kill 18 people has a criminal record? Is that some sort of surprise?

not involving firearms I hope

647 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:25pm

re: #645 researchok

There is a segment of clinical guys who call guys like him 'job security'.

I wish I were kidding about that.

And I wish I was too... but that's why I brought it up.

648 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:27pm

re: #643 marjoriemoon

Mom said they just passed a law that you can bring guns into bars now. Isn't that special,


Another good reason to stay out of bars!

649 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:32pm

re: #641 WindUpBird

zany pro-violent tweets on twitter:

wheee

So you think you can defeat us Liberals by rising up against us violently?

Good luck with that....

650 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:41pm

re: #634 Gus 802

Husband

Yes, thanks.
It appears I've again made that list of idiot conservatives who know nothing.

651 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:42pm

re: #635 CarleeCork

Her brother-in-law and her husband are both NASA, and they are twins.

Man, they must have one proud mama...I know I would be.

652 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:46pm

More "patriots" on twitter

Dogloverusa RT @clergywomen: IF THE EVENTS IN #AZ TODAY CAN'T MELT #OBAMA 's COLD HEART, NOTHING WILL. #PATRIOTS KNOW IT & HE'LL NEVER CHANGE 4 THE BETTER.-me #tcot

653 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:16:56pm

re: #643 marjoriemoon

Mom said they just passed a law that you can bring guns into bars now. Isn't that special,

Guns and alcohol, oh that will go over well. And I say this as a man who loves his whiskey very much.

654 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:17:22pm

re: #634 Gus 802

yes, but it is her BIL that is in space, not the husband.

655 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:17:31pm

BiancaJagger

RT @nonprofitorgs: RT@cspan VIDEO: (1/6/11) House reading of d U.S. Constitution, @Rep_Giffords reads the 1st Amendment: [Link: cs.pn...]

656 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:17:34pm

re: #649 jamesfirecat

So you think you can defeat us Liberals by rising up against us violently?

Good luck with that...

judging by this guy's face, the only thing he's going raise violently is a ham sandwich to his face

657 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:17:50pm

re: #632 HappyWarrior

Doesn't she know that lefties hate Hitler and were his big opponents in his rsie to power? For crying out loud, the German left supported Paul Hindenberg over Hitler in 1932. Pam doesn't know shit about German history at all. And it should be pointed out just because his favorite books have some lefty titles in them doesn't mean he's a lefty just like him having favorite books by rightists means he's a rightist. His words however make it more likely he's a rightist. I am fascinated by dictators and a book I recently enjoyed was a biography of Stalin before he was in charge of the USSR. That doesn't make me a Stalinist or even a Communist.

The charge that Hitler was a leftie is very popular with the right-wing, for obvious reasons. It's especially popular among those who lean libertarian. You can find that case argued going back to Hayek's "Road to Serfdom".

658 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:18:00pm

re: #652 WindUpBird

More "patriots" on twitter

wth? does that even mean?
Obama's "cold heart"....nuts, nuts I tell ya.

659 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:18:05pm

re: #643 marjoriemoon

Mom said they just passed a law that you can bring guns into bars now. Isn't that special,

which state? AZ?

660 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:18:16pm

re: #650 reine.de.tout

Yes, thanks.
It appears I've again made that list of idiot conservatives who know nothing.

Clearly, we have a lot in common.
//

661 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:18:39pm

re: #658 webevintage

wth? does that even mean?
Obama's "cold heart"...nuts, nuts I tell ya.

Forget it Jake it's Chinatown tcot!

662 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:08pm

Do we really know if that is the shooter's YouTube Channel? Almost instantly on Facebook pages have popped up with Obama's picture and the shooters name giving the impression this guy was a lefty.

663 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:08pm

Don't the crazy voices in peoples heads ever say, "Stop it. You're being a dick."?

664 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:08pm

re: #654 Jdorfma4

yes, but it is her BIL that is in space, not the husband.

The question was:
Gifford's husband is also NASA, isn't he?

The answer is:
Yes.

665 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:16pm

re: #654 Jdorfma4
Affirmative. Her husband is at her side.

666 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:16pm

Miraculous...A point blank shot to the head ,through and through, and a GOOD prognosis!!
All I can say is Miraculous!!

667 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:25pm

re: #652 WindUpBird

More "patriots" on twitter

I love it when they talk about Obama's "cold heart" while saying the nasty things about him. I hate to violate Godwin here but I will just once. Anyhow, the Nazi propaganda made it out like the Jews were the hateful ones while at the same time calling them parasites and rats. I remember encountering a right winger who actually said Ann Coulter was hateful because liberals were "hateful." I hate to laugh since this was Ann Coulter after all we were talking about.

668 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:25pm

re: #653 HappyWarrior

Guns and alcohol, oh that will go over well. And I say this as a man who loves his whiskey very much.

They are talking about letting college students bring guns on campus, in the dorms, here in Arkansas.
Recipe for a disaster.

669 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:37pm

re: #648 CarleeCork

Another good reason to stay out of bars!

That's the truth.

My mom works the elections every year and during the Senate race, the voting was at a church. A man had come in to pick up his daughter from the school and he had a gun on his hip. Mom said to him, "Oh I see your packin, huh?" He said, "Oh yea! You never can be too sure!" Ya just never know who you have to kill a church, I guess.

670 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:44pm

re: #639 Obdicut

The biggest danger now is bleeding and swelling in the brain post-op.

yes, but in ICU that is exactly what they are prepared for...she will have a critical eye on her every minute...if pressure starts to build, they will be ready

671 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:19:49pm

re: #666 reloadingisnotahobby

Miraculous...A point blank shot to the head ,through and through, and a GOOD prognosis!!
All I can say is Miraculous!!

All I can say is how did you get that comment number?

672 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:02pm

re: #605 dragonfire1981

Headline on Geller's site:

Arizona Shooter Jared Laughner Loughner: A Certified Lefty Nut - His Videos, Favorite Books: Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf

This is from his youtube channel. Total lefty loon.

How does she explain Ayn Rand ???

673 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:10pm

re: #642 BryanS

It wouldn't be...I'm curious what the "criminal past" entailed.

me too...

674 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:12pm

re: #659 WindUpBird

which state? AZ?

I'm seeing AZ listed as a "constitutional carry" state. I.E., no concealed carry permit required. They will issue one if you want reciprocity with concealed carry states.

675 Jdorfma4  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:20pm

re: #664 reine.de.tout

The question was:
Gifford's husband is also NASA, isn't he?

The answer is:
Yes.


Sorry, I thought i was responding tot he question that asked if the husband was in space. my bad.

676 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:34pm

re: #672 avanti

How does she explain Ayn Rand ???

False Flag operation.

677 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:44pm

re: #658 webevintage

wth? does that even mean?
Obama's "cold heart"...nuts, nuts I tell ya.

they all have as their descriptions on their profiles, the same keywords and schtick over and over

like "Tea Party Patriot who hates Marixists! Proud conservative blah blah marched on washington no no liberal Nobama"

People really are this mindless, I guess, they just need to belong to something so badly, so they just echo each others' sloganeering and internet flailing, twitter is perfect for that, even to the point of cheering on a murderer


It's like the internet is a window into the simplicity of people

678 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:20:50pm

re: #670 albusteve

yes, but in ICU that is exactly what they are prepared for...she will have a critical eye on her every minute...if pressure starts to build, they will be ready

She is not out of the woods. I'm very happy she's still alive but she's still in danger. A bullet went through her brain. We shouldn't celebrate yet.

679 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:01pm

re: #298 Ojoe

There has been plenty of bad behavior both from the far left and the far right.

But look at history. Sometimes one side is far worse than the other. In the early 70s, it was the left. Maybe now, with second amendment remedies and calls for revolution, it's the right.

Life and history are not always amenable to reductive platitudes or simplistic equivalency paradigms.

680 Irenicum  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:02pm

So, I wonder, with all the unbelievably crazy stuff being said on #tcot et al, are they gonna start saying that all conservative talk are false flags? They're gonna run outa flags!

681 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:23pm

re: #671 Walter L. Newton

I saw that .....Should I be worried?
Hey Walter!!
What a day!

682 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:41pm

re: #669 marjoriemoon

That's the truth.

My mom works the elections every year and during the Senate race, the voting was at a church. A man had come in to pick up his daughter from the school and he had a gun on his hip. Mom said to him, "Oh I see your packin, huh?" He said, "Oh yea! You never can be too sure!" Ya just never know who you have to kill a church, I guess.

///If George Tiller had brought a gun with him he would still be alive today....

(God I hate myself for writing this...)

683 deranged cat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:48pm

this is absolutely horrible.

684 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:52pm

re: #672 avanti
Familiarization reading./
Conservatives read Marx and Alinsky, too, you know.

685 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:54pm

re: #653 HappyWarrior

Guns and alcohol, oh that will go over well. And I say this as a man who loves his whiskey very much.

you cannot drink alcohol....that's what they fail to mention

686 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:21:55pm
Federal law enforcement officials were poring over captured versions of a MySpace page that belonged to Jared Loughner and over Youtube video published to the Internet weeks ago under an account "Classitup10" and linked to him. The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious "Goodbye friends" message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to "Please don't be mad at me."

In one of several Youtube videos, which featured text against a dark background, Loughner described inventing a new U.S. currency and complained about the illiteracy rate among people living in Giffords' congressional district in Arizona. Two spellings of his last name were given in the aftermath of the shooting — Loughner and Laughner.

"I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People," Loughner wrote. "Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen (sic)."


Source: AP

687 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:22:01pm

re: #667 HappyWarrior

I love it when they talk about Obama's "cold heart" while saying the nasty things about him. I hate to violate Godwin here but I will just once. Anyhow, the Nazi propaganda made it out like the Jews were the hateful ones while at the same time calling them parasites and rats. I remember encountering a right winger who actually said Ann Coulter was hateful because liberals were "hateful." I hate to laugh since this was Ann Coulter after all we were talking about.

of course!

688 HAL2010  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:22:17pm

re: #657 000G

The charge that Hitler was a leftie is very popular with the right-wing, for obvious reasons. It's especially popular among those who lean libertarian. You can find that case argued going back to Hayek's "Road to Serfdom".

Well, as a hayekian libertarian myself I would certainly agree with the bulk of his argument. Problem is, a lot of people quote him without actually having read anything by him except minequoting.
He was sometimes quoted in the healthcare debate, and yet libertarians and conservatives forgot a whole chapter in the road to serfdom.

Quote:

" Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist the individuals in providing for those common hazards of life against which, because of their uncertainty, few individuals can make adequate provision.

Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamities nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of assistance - where, in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks - the case for the state's helping to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong... Wherever communal action can mitigate disasters against which the individual can neither attempt to guard himself nor make the provision for the consequences, such communal action should undoubtedly be taken".

From Chapter 9.

689 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:22:38pm

re: #668 webevintage

They are talking about letting college students bring guns on campus, in the dorms, here in Arkansas.
Recipe for a disaster.

Yeah I'm a college student as well and I just don't think that would go over well. I'm pro gun rights than I used to be because of Virginia Tech but I think allowing guns on college campuses is asking for trouble.

690 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:22:55pm

re: #673 albusteve

me too...

One of his videos mentions being arrest at a community college. He claimed the arrest was unconstitutional because the school was unconstitutional by receiving federal funds.

691 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:23:13pm

re: #681 reloadingisnotahobby

I saw that ...Should I be worried?
Hey Walter!!
What a day!

Yes it has been... I started at this keyboard about 4:30 am this morning.... couldn't sleep... still can't.

This is really terrible, what happened in AZ. Reactions... to be expected.

692 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:23:15pm

re: #639 Obdicut
That's where the phrase ' medically induced coma ' comes into play.

693 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:23:24pm

re: #682 jamesfirecat

///If George Tiller had brought a gun with him he would still be alive today...

(God I hate myself for writing this...)

Well, I'm not a fan of carrying guns in public.

Mom's kind of a... em... wise acre (I have to say that nicely, she's my mother), but now you don't have to wonder where I get it from.

694 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:23:41pm

re: #684 tradewind

Familiarization reading./
Conservatives read Marx and Alinsky, too, you know.

I have all their books right here.

695 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:23:42pm

re: #672 avanti

Ummm.. that would be via ignoring and denying its existence?

696 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:23:57pm

re: #672 avanti

How does she explain Ayn Rand ???

Ayn Rand supports the government enact no laws regarding if a person is homosexual or not, abortion and keeping church and state separate. IE= Total Lefty loon.

697 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:24:09pm

re: #685 albusteve

you cannot drink alcohol...that's what they fail to mention

Why would you go to a bar and not drink, but carry a gun?

698 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:24:16pm

re: #685 albusteve

you cannot drink alcohol...that's what they fail to mention

Still stupid to bring a gun to a place filled with people drinking though wouldn't ya say? I just think it's asking for trouble. I am no gun opponent but I think there needs to be common sense as well.

699 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:24:29pm

re: #358 Rightwingconspirator

This brings up the question we had about the IRS building plane crasher-How insane does a person have to be to set aside the politics of his act?

At what point does deranged trump the politics, if ever?

When the politics are themselves deranged, it becomes difficult or impossible to separate the two.

This was a deranged man, who held deranged views. Those views are pretty consistent with a certain subset of the hard right, down to the talking point level.

I think its pretty clear that the shooter was nuts. I think its also pretty clear that certain propaganda helped push him toward the particular crazy act he committed.

In the end, assassinating a legislator is an inherently political act. You can't separate this from politics.

700 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:25:52pm

re: #298 Ojoe

There has been plenty of bad behavior both from the far left and the far right.

it's like you're a spambot

mechanically repeating false equivalency and gibberish about a political party that doesn't exist

701 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:26:01pm

re: #688 HAL2010

Well, as a hayekian libertarian myself I would certainly agree with the bulk of his argument. Problem is, a lot of people quote him without actually having read anything by him except minequoting.
He was sometimes quoted in the healthcare debate, and yet libertarians and conservatives forgot a whole chapter in the road to serfdom.

Quote:

" Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist the individuals in providing for those common hazards of life against which, because of their uncertainty, few individuals can make adequate provision.

Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamities nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of assistance - where, in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks - the case for the state's helping to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong... Wherever communal action can mitigate disasters against which the individual can neither attempt to guard himself nor make the provision for the consequences, such communal action should undoubtedly be taken".

From Chapter 9.

Yeah, I know. I think Mises and Rothbard called him a socialist for that.

702 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:26:02pm

re: #657 000G

The charge that Hitler was a leftie is very popular with the right-wing, for obvious reasons. It's especially popular among those who lean libertarian. You can find that case argued going back to Hayek's "Road to Serfdom".

Yeah, it boggles my mind. National Socialism may have the word "socialism" in the name but for some reason a lot of libertarians ignore the fact that the ideology was and is an extension of Fascism.

703 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:26:58pm

re: #657 000G

The charge that Hitler was a leftie is very popular with the right-wing, for obvious reasons. It's especially popular among those who lean libertarian. You can find that case argued going back to Hayek's "Road to Serfdom".

It's done because there are some conservatives out there who refuse to think their side can do any wrong. And I will throw a bone here, I see liberals do it too and it bothers me too but I guess the Nazi one bothers me most as someone who had family killed by them and thus I don't like my ideology of being left of center being attributed to the Third Reich.

704 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:27:03pm

re: #690 Killgore Trout

One of his videos mentions being arrest at a community college. He claimed the arrest was unconstitutional because the school was unconstitutional by receiving federal funds.

I'm sure it didn't prevent him from filing a FAFSA to apply for loans and grants...

705 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:27:14pm

re: #690 Killgore Trout

One of his videos mentions being arrest at a community college. He claimed the arrest was unconstitutional because the school was unconstitutional by receiving federal funds.

if he's been involved with guns and crime in the past, I'm gonna go through the roof...I am very strict about that..I'm talking threatening people with firearms...the other Mickey Mouse shit doesn't matter to me

706 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:27:19pm

re: #689 HappyWarrior

Yeah I'm a college student as well and I just don't think that would go over well. I'm pro gun rights than I used to be because of Virginia Tech but I think allowing guns on college campuses is asking for trouble.

Perhaps you can go about with guns and ammo on a commie prog college campus, but you absolutely can't do it on a red-blooded American army base. Is it ironic yet?

707 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:27:28pm

re: #697 marjoriemoon

I have had a carry permit for ...ah...23 years !
I very seldom go any where without a firearm!
...IN MY TRUCK,NOT ON MY HIP!
I've carried concealed maybe twice!
But I'm in Utah not the south side of Chicago!!

708 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:27:32pm

re: #618 KayInMaine

I am sick to my stomach!

But in what direction is your stomach in relation to your hands?
And how long by car would in take to get there?

709 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:28:01pm

re: #697 marjoriemoon

Why would you go to a bar and not drink, but carry a gun?

that's their business, not yours or mine....be creative

710 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:28:20pm

re: #155 Get busy livin'

I've been using that avatar for years and I'm not going to change it now. If you look carefully, you'll see that that's Osama bin Ladin in Homer's gunsight.

this guy's a real thinker!


let me know when you figure out that sippy cup there junior, I hear it's a toughy

711 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:28:26pm

re: #666 reloadingisnotahobby

Miraculous...A point blank shot to the head ,through and through, and a GOOD prognosis!!
All I can say is Miraculous!!

Truly is awesome! *thumbs up*

712 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:28:28pm

re: #693 marjoriemoon

Well, I'm not a fan of carrying guns in public.

Mom's kind of a... em... wise acre (I have to say that nicely, she's my mother), but now you don't have to wonder where I get it from.

It might pose a danger for normal people. However, I don't think someone who is thinking about bringing a gun to a bar to shoot someone is going turn around and think "I better not bring a gun to the bar because that's against the law."

713 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:28:47pm

re: #480 avanti

Crazy Pam has decided he's a Nazi/Commie.

She'd know. /

714 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:29:29pm

re: #708 ozbloke

Ha ha. Cute. :D

715 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:29:38pm

re: #698 HappyWarrior

Still stupid to bring a gun to a place filled with people drinking though wouldn't ya say? I just think it's asking for trouble. I am no gun opponent but I think there needs to be common sense as well.

yeah, it's pretty common to rough up a stranger and lift his piece from a shoulder holster, where 99% of the time, the gun would be...get real

716 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:29:39pm

Honestly, the most ridiculous thing is when they "Well they(the Nazis) called themselves national socialists, ergo they were socialists. So, I always respond so East Germany was Democratic, since after all East Germany's official name was the German Democratic Republic. And there's lot more of those. I have no problem admitting Stalinism, Maoism, and Pol Potism(sp?) are excesses of the far left and to me they're a reminder of why far left not only doesn't work but is wrong too.

717 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:30:08pm

re: #711 KayInMaine

Being an avid shooter I can attest to the odds of this NOT having a good outcome!!

718 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:30:15pm

re: #702 UNIXon

Yeah, it boggles my mind. National Socialism may have the word "socialism" in the name but for some reason a lot of libertarians ignore the fact that the ideology was and is an extension of Fascism.

I personally would not call it an extension of fascism, it went well beyond that.

719 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:31:00pm

re: #715 albusteve

yeah, it's pretty common to rough up a stranger and lift his piece from a shoulder holster, where 99% of the time, the gun would be...get real

I've just been in bars where fights have broken out, glasses thrown, guys on cocaine, I'm just a little nervous about the notion of firearms in that environment :D

720 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:31:04pm

re: #707 reloadingisnotahobby

I have had a carry permit for ...ah...23 years !
I very seldom go any where without a firearm!
...IN MY TRUCK,NOT ON MY HIP!
I've carried concealed maybe twice!
But I'm in Utah not the south side of Chicago!!

Well I have my views on this which probably aren't the same as yours! So I'll keep my mouth shut. I'm glad you don't carry it on your person at any rate. I just hope you're not a road rager type of fellow.

721 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:31:24pm

re: #703 HappyWarrior

It's done because there are some conservatives out there who refuse to think their side can do any wrong. And I will throw a bone here, I see liberals do it too and it bothers me too but I guess the Nazi one bothers me most as someone who had family killed by them and thus I don't like my ideology of being left of center being attributed to the Third Reich.

I know it's very charged, emotionally. I was very disappointed when one of my favorite academics argued the case: [Link: democraticpeace.wordpress.com...]

722 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:31:39pm

re: #489 Charles

Sarah Palin just went back and deleted this tweet:

Image: mGMts.png

active refudiation at work!

723 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:31:41pm

re: #709 albusteve

that's their business, not yours or mine...be creative

So what happens when some drunk ends up with another guy's gun?

724 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:32:11pm

re: #715 albusteve

yeah, it's pretty common to rough up a stranger and lift his piece from a shoulder holster, where 99% of the time, the gun would be...get real

I am just saying, I don't think it's smart to bring a gun in to a place where people's judgments won't be the greatest. That's all I mean. Disagree all you want but I think it's poor judgment.

725 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:33:18pm

re: #700 WindUpBird

it's like you're a spambot

mechanically repeating false equivalency and gibberish about a political party that doesn't exist

Ojoe is no spambot...

726 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:33:19pm

re: #723 marjoriemoon

So what happens when some drunk ends up with another guy's gun?

The piano stops playing. Then the bartender shoots the drunk guy with a shotgun. Then the piano start playing again.

727 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:33:28pm

re: #472 Charles

Sure enough. The Twitter wingnuts are already calling him a "leftist."

Is there anything to base such an evaluation on? Other than "I hate to admit that my side--with violent rhetoric about revolution, secession and 2nd amendment remedies--may have been wrong"?

728 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:33:48pm

re: #372 000G

The only thing that is not congruent with that is that he apparently is an atheist.

Ayn Rand was notoriously anti-religion. If this guy's a far right libertarian, it's not hard to imagine that he's read some of Ayn's screeds at some point.

729 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:34:06pm

re: #720 marjoriemoon

LOL No that's what my middle finger is for!!
I take the responsibility WAY SERIOUS!!

730 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:34:08pm

re: #712 Gus 802

It might pose a danger for normal people. However, I don't think someone who is thinking about bringing a gun to a bar to shoot someone is going turn around and think "I better not bring a gun to the bar because that's against the law."

That might be true, but the entire idea is ludicrous and dangerous. You can say that about any law, so why even have laws at all if people are going to break them anyway. You know what I'm saying?

731 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:34:42pm

re: #728 Lidane

Ayn Rand was notoriously anti-religion. If this guy's a far right libertarian, it's not hard to imagine that he's read some of Ayn's screeds at some point.

Again, that might be true, but I just want to point out again that I was responding to KT who was specifically mentioning Alex Jones and Ron Paul.

732 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:35:11pm

re: #726 Gus 802

The piano stops playing. Then the bartender shoots the drunk guy with a shotgun. Then the piano start playing again.

Yeehaw!!!

733 Earwig  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:35:11pm

A schoolmate of the shooter, Caitie Parker, has this to say...
[Link: twitter.com...]

"@antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

@lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.

@antderosa he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class

Not to mention his favorite video on Youtube was a creepy flag burning (a Tea Party past time right?)

So to all the cretins pejoratively linking these murders to Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, and generally projecting your political hopes onto this tragedy.....you really do humanity no favors and should probably just STFU at this point.

734 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:35:12pm

re: #478 BryanS

This guys is not main stream--that's over the top to suggest that.

He's not mainstream, but the violent political rhetoric that may have motivated him has become mainstream. Talk of revolution, secession and 2nd amendment remedies is the discourse du jour of governors, senate candidates and tea party leaders.

735 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:35:43pm

re: #712 Gus 802

However, I do think that somebody might go to the bar with a gun, intending to be responsible, but drink too heavily, and then use the gun irresponsibly.

I'm very, very leery of anyone who wants to drink while armed.

736 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:36:02pm

re: #725 albusteve

Ojoe is no spambot...

It'd be great if he didn't repeat the same stuff over and over

737 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:36:10pm

re: #730 marjoriemoon

That might be true, but the entire idea is ludicrous and dangerous. You can say that about any law, so why even have laws at all if people are going to break them anyway. You know what I'm saying?

Yep. I'd feel funny going into a bar knowing that a bunch of guys might be carrying. Some would say I may not know that anyway. Anyways, I hate bars for the most part.

738 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:36:20pm

re: #702 UNIXon

National Socialism may have the word "socialism" in the name but for some reason a lot of libertarians ignore the fact that the ideology was and is an extension of Fascism.

They ignore it because it's much more convenient to focus on the word Socialism than actually put any effort into being honest about who the Nazis really were.

739 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:36:53pm

re: #734 palomino

He's not mainstream, but the violent political rhetoric that may have motivated him has become mainstream. Talk of revolution, secession and 2nd amendment remedies is the discourse du jour of governors, senate candidates and tea party leaders.


THIS CANNOT BE EMPHASIZED ENOUGH

740 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:37:18pm

re: #733 Earwig

Yeah. Because people never lie about their friends. And people never, ever change their political views. Ever.

741 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:37:50pm

re: #737 Gus 802

Yep. I'd feel funny going into a bar knowing that a bunch of guys might be carrying. Some would say I may not know that anyway. Anyways, I hate bars for the most part.

I won't be going to bars in AZ that's for sure.

742 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:37:55pm

re: #537 Charles

Posted at Sarah Palin's Facebook page:

Image: ZZ165CCEF5.jpg

Good fucking Christ!

743 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:00pm

re: #733 Earwig

A schoolmate of the shooter, Caitie Parker, has this to say...
[Link: twitter.com...]

"@antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

@lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.

@antderosa he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class

Not to mention his favorite video on Youtube was a creepy flag burning (a Tea Party past time right?)

So to all the cretins pejoratively linking these murders to Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, and generally projecting your political hopes onto this tragedy...you really do humanity no favors and should probably just STFU at this point.


Way to blow a perfectly reasonable argument by being a dick at the end there.

Also not to say there's anything wrong with Arizona, but what passes for a "liberal" or left wing in Arizona, may not exactly match up with what the genuine article is....

I don't know if he's right or left wing we need more info, all I know is that only people on the right were spouting violent words about this women until someone shot her.

Or do you have some proof of people on the left doing the same?

744 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:05pm

re: #740 Lidane

Yeah. Because people never lie about their friends. And people never, ever change their political views. Ever.

Twitter has tweeted.

745 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:17pm

re: #733 Earwig

Hey look, a failed troll

746 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:37pm

re: #723 marjoriemoon

So what happens when some drunk ends up with another guy's gun?

I give up, what?....then how about granny with a CC that goes off and starts shooting the place up?...how many scenarios do you want to justify your point of view?...find me some stats to support your fear....hint: they are not there

747 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:44pm

re: #736 WindUpBird

It'd be great if he didn't repeat the same stuff over and over

///Join the wigs!

(I kid cause I love)

748 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:52pm

re: #733 Earwig

Are you referring to any cretins in particular? Links?

749 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:38:55pm

re: #742 Romantic Heretic

Good fucking Christ!

wow

though then again, this is INTERNET, for all we know that was a guy pranking her page

750 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:39:00pm

re: #740 Lidane

Yeah. Because people never lie about their friends. And people never, ever change their political views. Ever.

You know what? I knew him too. And you know that's true because I said it on the internet.

751 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:39:13pm

re: #632 HappyWarrior

Doesn't she know that lefties hate Hitler and were his big opponents in his rsie to power?

No. She's bought into the "Liberal Fascism" revisionism, whereby Nazis are leftists.

752 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:39:19pm

re: #750 marjoriemoon

You know what? I knew him too. And you know that's true because I said it on the internet.

ahahaha

753 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:39:47pm

re: #733 Earwig

So to all the cretins pejoratively linking these murders to Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, and generally projecting your political hopes onto this tragedy...you really do humanity no favors and should probably just STFU at this point.

I'm going to quote post 13 here.

Again, Sharon Angle, "second amendment solution" provider.

Sarah Palin, "don't retreat, reload."

Michelle Bachman wanted people "armed and dangerous."

754 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:40:09pm

re: #753 Fozzie Bear

Facts are hard!

755 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:40:19pm

re: #748 wrenchwench

Are you referring to any cretins in particular? Links?

I was a cretin once....But I got better...;-)

756 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:40:53pm

re: #735 Obdicut

However, I do think that somebody might go to the bar with a gun, intending to be responsible, but drink too heavily, and then use the gun irresponsibly.

I'm very, very leery of anyone who wants to drink while armed.

Yep. One stupid argument and blam! At least with open carry you'd know who not to mess with. I think when you come down to it though you really never know where or when it will be coming from. Regardless of the law or lack of laws.

757 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:41:24pm

re: #733 Earwig

A schoolmate of the shooter, Caitie Parker, has this to say...
[Link: twitter.com...]

"@antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

@lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.

@antderosa he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class

Not to mention his favorite video on Youtube was a creepy flag burning (a Tea Party past time right?)

So to all the cretins pejoratively linking these murders to Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, and generally projecting your political hopes onto this tragedy...you really do humanity no favors and should probably just STFU at this point.

It's very possible his views could have changed. Shit I'm only a year older tahn the guy and I know for a fact that my views were different in 2006 and they are now in 2011.

758 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:41:27pm

re: #733 Earwig

He was a really good friend, that she hasn't heard from in four years, and had to look at her yearbook for the spelling of his name. But is was enough to get a phone call from Good Morning America.

Hmmm....

759 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:42:00pm

re: #700 WindUpBird

it's like you're a spambot

mechanically repeating false equivalency and gibberish about a political party that doesn't exist

At least he's not talking about that fucking dead end Modern Whig Party any more.

760 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:42:02pm

re: #735 Obdicut

However, I do think that somebody might go to the bar with a gun, intending to be responsible, but drink too heavily, and then use the gun irresponsibly.

I'm very, very leery of anyone who wants to drink while armed.

when this happens let me know...in NM you are not allowed to consume alcohol if you are CC...pretty simple

761 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:42:06pm

re: #753 Fozzie Bear

I wish they hadn't used part of my nic....

762 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:42:15pm

re: #751 SanFranciscoZionist

No. She's bought into the "Liberal Fascism" revisionism, whereby Nazis are leftists.

As I pointed out, it's an old rightwing libertarian meme. Jonah Goldberg is proudly continuing that deceptional tradition.

763 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:42:35pm

re: #755 reloadingisnotahobby

I was a cretin once...But I got better...;-)

I've been in Crete...

764 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:42:57pm

re: #757 HappyWarrior

It's very possible his views could have changed. Shit I'm only a year older tahn the guy and I know for a fact that my views were different in 2006 and they are now in 2011.

If he was at his heart an anti-establishment person of course he would have tilted "liberal" in 2007...

Not saying this is why he acted the way he is, it's just a guess, but it is a guess which would mesh with all the facts we currently have doesn't it?

765 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:43:03pm

re: #763 wrenchwench

I've been in Crete...

What's a Cretan Urn?

766 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:43:38pm

re: #759 palomino

At least he's not talking about that fucking dead end Modern Whig Party any more.

haha I thought he just did that a few days ago

767 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:43:56pm

re: #765 Decatur Deb

What's a Cretan Urn?

An amphora? Full of olive oil?

768 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:43:58pm

re: #765 Decatur Deb

What's a Cretan Urn?

About 8.50 an hour if they're lucky!

769 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:43:58pm

re: #763 wrenchwench

I've been in Crete...

Maybe we've met???
LOL

770 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:44:08pm

re: #759 palomino

At least he's not talking about that fucking dead end Modern Whig Party any more.

why does that bother you so much?...don't be such an asshole

771 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:44:18pm

re: #761 reloadingisnotahobby

I wish they hadn't used part of my nic...

We know you mean re-using shell casings, not putting more rounds in the magazine after shooting.

Different thing entirely.

772 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:44:28pm

re: #760 albusteve

when this happens let me know...in NM you are not allowed to consume alcohol if you are CC...pretty simple

people do a lot of things they're not allowed to to bars :P

773 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:44:31pm

re: #580 jamesfirecat

What about that guy who got an entire railroad spike through his head and then managed to survive it even if he became anti social and more interested in animals than other people?

Its down right disturbing some of the things the human body can survive sometimes...

Phineas Gage.

774 Ramona  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:44:38pm

" she was a moderate", even if she was liberal or conservative, hope she pulls through. re: #4 Obdicut

775 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:45:13pm

re: #767 wrenchwench

An amphora? Full of olive oil?


See Firecat, but it's 8.50 drachmas, if they're hard-working.

776 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:45:48pm

re: #766 WindUpBird

haha I thought he just did that a few days ago

oops, premature wishful thinking on my part.

777 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:46:15pm

re: #772 WindUpBird

people do a lot of things they're not allowed to to bars :P

whatever, like it's any different than any other location or scenario?...good grief, your fears are so unfounded

778 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:46:57pm

re: #770 albusteve

why does that bother you so much?...don't be such an asshole

who are you? the ojoe defense league?

don't be such a dickish busy body hall monitor.

779 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:48:10pm

re: #733 Earwig

A schoolmate of the shooter, Caitie Parker, has this to say...
[Link: twitter.com...]

"@antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

@lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.

@antderosa he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class

Not to mention his favorite video on Youtube was a creepy flag burning (a Tea Party past time right?)

FOAD, asshole...

So to all the cretins pejoratively linking these murders to Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, and generally projecting your political hopes onto this tragedy...you really do humanity no favors and should probably just STFU at this point.

780 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:49:44pm

re: #776 palomino

oops, premature wishful thinking on my part.

yeah and WUB talks about his fucking art all the time, and wench talks about her bikes all the fucking time, and you bitch about other posters all the fucking time...it's all relative, but you fucking bitch more than anybody fucking here, slamming other posters....you're old

781 deranged cat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:50:05pm

re: #733 Earwig

if you'd just posted the tweets, that'd prob be worthy of some plus'es for honest posting, REGARDLESS if it were left or right.

adding your dickish rant at the end deserves every negative it gets, asshole.

782 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:50:51pm

The miracle is, she survived & is out of surgery.
It was a "through and through" shot.
Bullet went in one temple & out the other side.

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

Prayers for all affected.

783 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:50:54pm

BBL

784 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:51:27pm

re: #778 palomino

who are you? the ojoe defense league?

don't be such a dickish busy body hall monitor.

hahaha!...you hypocrite

785 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:53:25pm

re: #746 albusteve

I give up, what?...then how about granny with a CC that goes off and starts shooting the place up?...how many scenarios do you want to justify your point of view?...find me some stats to support your fear...hint: they are not there

Sorry I was busy reading some other lunatics rantings.

If you can't see the possible and most probable dangers of bringing a weapon into a place where one of the purposes is to get drunk, than really, I can't help you.

786 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:54:02pm

re: #780 albusteve

yeah and WUB talks about his fucking art all the time, and wench talks about her bikes all the fucking time, and you bitch about other posters all the fucking time...it's all relative, but you fucking bitch more than anybody fucking here, slamming other posters...you're old

as usual, you missed the context of the discussion, then you just jumped in with bile.

slamming posters is your stock in trade, don't be even more of a hypocrite.

but it is heartening to see a gentleman like you stick up for the wounded ojoe. how chivalrous.

787 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:55:06pm

re: #717 reloadingisnotahobby

You would think a point blank shot would have killed her instantly (which is most likely why some media outlets reported her as being dead), but the fact she is still holding on is truly remarkable! Gives me goosebumps. On the other hand, the shooter did kill today one of which was a 9 year old child. So sad!

788 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:56:09pm

re: #786 palomino

as usual, you missed the context of the discussion, then you just jumped in with bile.

slamming posters is your stock in trade, don't be even more of a hypocrite.

but it is heartening to see a gentleman like you stick up for the wounded ojoe. how chivalrous.

no, just you....leave people alone...you make a piss poor bully

789 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:56:21pm

re: #785 marjoriemoon

Sorry I was busy reading some other lunatics rantings.

If you can't see the possible and most probable dangers of bringing a weapon into a place where one of the purposes is to get drunk, than really, I can't help you.

I was in a bar about 20 years ago and there were armed guards at the door in a shady type area. I felt kind of safe because of it. Then a fight broke out, a big one. Then I saw one of the guards fall to the ground while someone else was reaching for his holster.

790 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:57:14pm

re: #785 marjoriemoon

Sorry I was busy reading some other lunatics rantings.

If you can't see the possible and most probable dangers of bringing a weapon into a place where one of the purposes is to get drunk, than really, I can't help you.

it's more dangerous to drive to the airport, by far...there is no reality to support your fear

791 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:58:09pm

re: #788 albusteve

no, just you...leave people alone...you make a piss poor bully

are you the official scorekeeper for lgf? but you're right, i'm nowhere near the bully you can be.

why don't you tell us some more about how giuliani is gonna be the gop nom. that was a good one, hahaha.

792 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 2:58:50pm

re: #789 Amory Blaine

I was in a bar about 20 years ago and there were armed guards at the door in a shady type area. I felt kind of safe because of it. Then a fight broke out, a big one. Then I saw one of the guards fall to the ground while someone else was reaching for his holster.

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me... I don't think I'd enter a bar if it had armed guards at the door, but that's me. I'm a chicken shit when it comes to weapons. And actually, I'm a pretty good shot. I used to do a lot of archery as a kid and win awards.

793 SFGoth  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:04:05pm

Isn't "right wing libertarian" a contradiction in terms? None of the right wingers I know approve of my marijuana usage or my pro-choice stance. It's like saying "left wing libertarian" -- what, a leftie who supports the 2nd amendment and limited government?

Maybe things are a little more complex than many of you have time to consider before posting. I routinely argue with both lefties and righties that Hitler cannot be pigeonholed as either left or right. But noooo, both sides seize on something (such as "Nazi = national SOCIALIST!!!!!!!!!!" or he was an authoritarian dictator; so was Stalin) when simple labels don't apply.

Go watch football and let the facts play out. As William Shatner said, get a life. (I don't mean to trivialize the shooting and deaths, but this obsession isn't getting anywhere.)

794 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:05:29pm

Good lord! What a horrifying, depressing event. My heart and hopes go out to those who are injured, and my condolences to those who lost loved ones today.

And FWIW, I am all but certain that those who are mourning their dead and tending their wounded today could not care less about this mass murder's political ideology right now.

795 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:08:18pm

re: #793 SFGoth

Wow, thanks for putting us all in our place. We need to "get lives" instead of talking about the major news of the day? I'm not sure you get the whole point of this blog.

796 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:09:55pm

re: #793 SFGoth

It's a shorthand for a political faction of allied interests. In the US, today, faction has more meaning than ideology.

797 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:09:59pm

Now that I'm done reading all the posts I'll send my prayers to the victims, their families and their friends.

798 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:10:31pm

re: #793 SFGoth

Isn't "right wing libertarian" a contradiction in terms? None of the right wingers I know approve of my marijuana usage or my pro-choice stance. It's like saying "left wing libertarian" -- what, a leftie who supports the 2nd amendment and limited government?

Maybe things are a little more complex than many of you have time to consider before posting. I routinely argue with both lefties and righties that Hitler cannot be pigeonholed as either left or right. But nooo, both sides seize on something (such as "Nazi = national SOCIALIST!!!" or he was an authoritarian dictator; so was Stalin) when simple labels don't apply.

Go watch football and let the facts play out. As William Shatner said, get a life. (I don't mean to trivialize the shooting and deaths, but this obsession isn't getting anywhere.)

A right wing liberterian is someone who wants to shut down all forms of government control or at least most of them this makes them appear to be "socially liberal" because they want marijuana and abortion legalized simply because they don't want to give the government any power.

Liberterians are what you get when you take conservative small government rethoric to its "logical" extreme and disregard the socons who have a choke hold on what it means to be "conservative" today...

799 SFGoth  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:11:51pm

re: #795 palomino

I guess I didn't realize the point of this blog was to jump, as quickly as possible, to conclusions that fit preconceived political positions. I apologize.

800 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:13:27pm

re: #793 SFGoth

Isn't "right wing libertarian" a contradiction in terms? None of the right wingers I know approve of my marijuana usage or my pro-choice stance. It's like saying "left wing libertarian" -- what, a leftie who supports the 2nd amendment and limited government?

Maybe things are a little more complex than many of you have time to consider before posting. I routinely argue with both lefties and righties that Hitler cannot be pigeonholed as either left or right. But nooo, both sides seize on something (such as "Nazi = national SOCIALIST!!!" or he was an authoritarian dictator; so was Stalin) when simple labels don't apply.

Go watch football and let the facts play out. As William Shatner said, get a life. (I don't mean to trivialize the shooting and deaths, but this obsession isn't getting anywhere.)

Libertarians can be and are all over the map. Therefore "right-wing libertarian" is not a contradiction.

Where have you been? Watching football? We can sit here and discuss WHILE the facts are playing out, if you don't mind.

801 SFGoth  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:14:13pm

re: #798 jamesfirecat

re: #798 jamesfirecat

A right wing liberterian is someone who wants to shut down all forms of government control or at least most of them this makes them appear to be "socially liberal" because they want marijuana and abortion legalized simply because they don't want to give the government any power.

Liberterians are what you get when you take conservative small government rethoric to its "logical" extreme and disregard the socons who have a choke hold on what it means to be "conservative" today...

Sounds like "right wing liberterian" = anarchist. Frankly, I think your explanation doesn't hold at all. And a left wing libertarian is?

802 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:14:23pm

re: #791 palomino

are you the official scorekeeper for lgf? but you're right, i'm nowhere near the bully you can be.

why don't you tell us some more about how giuliani is gonna be the gop nom. that was a good one, hahaha.

if you had any lightness in your heart, you'd know the Rudi blub for the satire it was...but you look for trouble, you have a meanstreak, a real no fun person...people are nothing but targets for your snide snark...you have a pattern, a rep....I'm underwhelmed with your hall monitor and scorekeeper crap...your idea of fun is to insult and try to hurt others and it's all on the books

803 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:19:40pm

re: #801 SFGoth

re: #798 jamesfirecat

Sounds like "right wing liberterian" = anarchist. Frankly, I think your explanation doesn't hold at all. And a left wing libertarian is?

Who cares?

I don't think this guy was a left wing liberterian?

Why do I have to prove there are such things as left wing liberterians?

You said there was no such thing as a right wing one, and I aimed to explain to you why you are incorrect.

And you might be right that they have some rather anarchist views, but they probably call themselves liberterians since that is less objectionable.

Do you disagree with my conclusion with how this person could have been a right wing liberterian or how people on the right wing can sometimes embrace socially liberal causes for the sake of denying the government power?

804 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:20:06pm

re: #801 SFGoth

re: #798 jamesfirecat

Sounds like "right wing liberterian" = anarchist. Frankly, I think your explanation doesn't hold at all. And a left wing libertarian is?

Also please explain why my explanation doesn't hold...

805 Earwig  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:22:51pm

AZ has the death penalty for murder. Good.

806 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:30:55pm

re: #804 jamesfirecat

Also please explain why my explanation doesn't hold...

Crazies be crazy. The far left extremist and the far right extremist have more in common with each other than with the political left and right.
807 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:33:26pm

re: #805 Earwig

AZ has the death penalty for murder. Good.

"Viva la Muerta."

808 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:34:16pm

re: #806 Buck

His political beliefs were centrally liberterian and thus anti-government thus part of the government needs to be smaller mantra of conservatism espoused by your own ID quote.

If this guy's guiding light turns out to be a hatred of the federal government simply because he it is the government that makes him a creature of the right wing, especially if he was interested in returning to a gold standard.

This does not mean the entire right wing is crazy. But it should in theory do some soul searching and try and figure out what they were saying that this guy got so wrong...

Do you disagree with any of the above and if so why?

809 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:38:52pm

re: #802 albusteve
Careful Steve:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, your reputation is anything but stellar.

810 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:56:16pm

re: #802 albusteve

if you had any lightness in your heart, you'd know the Rudi blub for the satire it was...but you look for trouble, you have a meanstreak, a real no fun person...people are nothing but targets for your snide snark...you have a pattern, a rep...I'm underwhelmed with your hall monitor and scorekeeper crap...your idea of fun is to insult and try to hurt others and it's all on the books

You're hilarious, hilariously wrong. With no sense of self-awareness. Only people like you are targets for my sarcasm. Most people I never bother.

That'll be the fucking day when I take advice on manners from the likes of a bombthrower like you. I occasionally get into it with someone; you constantly piss people off, almost like you're trying (hmm?) You're in no position to lecture.

And how's that "Cowboys are going all the way" prediction working out for you? "Oooh, ahhh, look at Tony's passer rating." Hahaha.

811 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 3:58:48pm

re: #806 Buck

I don't know if he's right, left or indeterminate. But the vast majority of the violent political rhetoric (revolution, secession, 2nd amendment remedies) comes from the far right today. It's been different at different points in our history, but it is what it is at this point.

812 BadgerB  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:07:11pm

re: #697 marjoriemoon

Why would you go to a bar and not drink, but carry a gun?

Designated Shooter?

813 fat.elvis  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:44:04pm

[Link: azstarnet.com...]

Sounds like a regular nutjob guys. Sorry to spoil the party.

814 boxhead  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 11:54:46pm

I am fucking pissed off over these senseless killings.

WTF AMERICA?

815 tpez  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:35:33am

Anyone notice that "Mein Kampf" is listed as one of the as one of the raving lunatic assassin's favorite books on his youtube channel? So angry that this incoherent schizo was not forced into some mental institution. Just tragic.


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