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1 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:08:32pm

How about this one from Phoenix?

Image: 1_full_600x400.jpg

2 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:09:12pm

I see Drudgereport has Infowars linked up at the very top of the page right now, the line about mind control…

3 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:10:15pm

Wow... I saw the first one and was thinking that like most "What XXXX?" posts you'd have one pick and was about to argue that one pick of anything proves nothing...

Clearly you continue to be one step ahead of me Charles...

4 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:10:52pm

One comforting thought: given all the changes America continues to go through, these people are definitely our past, not our future.

5 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:11:08pm

The third from the top doesn't actually concern me that much, I have to admit.

6 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:11:55pm

The tree of liberty must be refreshed some time? How do you refresh a tree?

7 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:12:03pm

I have many, many more photos like this in my archives.

8 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:12:21pm

re: #4 palomino

One comforting thought: given all the changes America continues to go through, these people are definitely our past, not our future.

The (alleged?) shooter is 22 years old.

9 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:12:36pm

re: #6 Kid A

The tree of liberty must be refreshed some time? How do you refresh a tree?

With the blood of patriots and tyrants....

You don't know the quote?

10 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:12:45pm

re: #5 000G

The third from the top doesn't actually concern me that much, I have to admit.

Yeah, there are better examples out there. If you can think of one off the top of your head, and can find it, link it.

I suggest that Charles should add really pertinent ones to his post as we find them. Of course, he can also tell me to die in a fire. I mean, it's not like i get to give the man assignments, lol.

11 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:12:47pm

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.

I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.

Sharron Angle, GOP candidate.

12 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:12:58pm

re: #7 Charles

I have many, many more photos like this in my archives.

I'd say post em all just because there's no kill like overkill....

13 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:13:16pm

re: #6 Kid A

The tree of liberty must be refreshed some time? How do you refresh a tree?

With the blood of patriots and tyrants, of course. It's a Thomas Jefferson quote the loons took completely out of context.

14 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:13:20pm

I sense the MBF searching Google images in vain.

15 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:13:22pm

re: #12 jamesfirecat

I'd say post em all just because there's no kill like overkill...

In the context of today's events, James, that was an unfortunate choice of words.

16 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:15:03pm

re: #5 000G

The third from the top doesn't actually concern me that much, I have to admit.

Obesity concerns me.

17 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:15:40pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

The (alleged?) shooter is 22 years old.

Sure, and a lot of tea partiers are young too. But there's an overarching socio-demographic trend which puts the core of the tea party on the losing end numerically. Things are slowly changing for the better. It may take a while, but we really don't have to worry about angry white reactionary know-nothing populists determining the course of America indefinitely. For now though, it's totally a fucked up movement.

18 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:15:57pm

re: #15 Obdicut

In the context of today's events, James, that was an unfortunate choice of words.

Yeah it was sorry...

19 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:16:57pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

The (alleged?) shooter is 22 years old.

And the kid holding up that "Roadkill" sign in the fourth photo looks like he's about nine.
Same age as the child who was murdered today.
One is our future. The other is dead.

20 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:17:43pm

Guns at Obama Town Halls..

21 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:17:45pm

re: #7 Charles

I have many, many more photos like this in my archives.

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well....

22 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:18:48pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

Do you have any posts involving people in positions of power within the democratic party saying Antisemetic things?

23 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:19:02pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

You do EVER get bored of playing the silly game?

24 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:19:45pm

re: #21 Buck

Translation: "Help me, Magical Balance Fairy! You're my only hope!"

25 McSpiff  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:19:49pm

re: #23 bratwurst

You do EVER get bored of playing the silly game?

He's building a solid portfolio for the stalker blogs.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:19:57pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

Yes, and if, God should forbid it, some Berkeley kid were to shoot an AIPAC director, I would be pretty sure what motivated it.

So would you.

But in this case, you're never going to admit that right-wing rhetoric, no matter how radical, ugly, or openly violent, could ever, ever, ever lead to a tragedy like this.

27 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:20:18pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

Also, Buck its not just about what the base says... its about if their statements are echoed by those in power and urged on.

Statements like "don't retreate reload" and "second amendment remedies" for example.

Can you show me proof of elected /democratic candidates embraced by the party urging on Anti-semitism?

28 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:20:20pm

re: #17 palomino

Sure, and a lot of tea partiers are young too. But there's an overarching socio-demographic trend which puts the core of the tea party on the losing end numerically. Things are slowly changing for the better. It may take a while, but we really don't have to worry about angry white reactionary know-nothing populists determining the course of America indefinitely. For now though, it's totally a fucked up movement.

Demographics are trending in a direction leading to optimism, but it's only a "trend", and demographics aren't everything. We are becoming less white, but I don't see us becoming better educated and more tolerant without a LOT more work.

29 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:20:21pm

re: #21 Buck

That must explain why so few Jews are elected by the GOP, and so many are elected by the Democrats.
/

30 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:20:25pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

Its all about frequency, influence, and context.

You don't see elected democrats advocating for antisemitism at the national level. And example: what happened to Helen Thomas? Was she welcomed by liberal congressmen, or did she lose her press pass?

31 celticdragon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:21:04pm

re: #22 jamesfirecat

Do you have any posts involving people in positions of power within the democratic party saying Antisemetic things?

Or threatening American Jews with guns at political events?

32 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:21:38pm

Watching people become so emotionally invested in what should be nothing more than hyperbolic rhetoric makes me concerned about our ability to be objective and rational. The inherent anti-intellectualism in over valuing the 'down to earth' version of common sense is a dangerous reversal of direction for our society.

33 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:22:00pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

The word is "antisemitic."

And yes, I do have examples of antisemitism from the left. But the volume and ugliness of the hate coming out of the right has no parallel on the left.

34 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:22:28pm

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

But in this case, you're never going to admit that right-wing rhetoric, no matter how radical, ugly, or openly violent, could ever, ever, ever lead to a tragedy like this.

Because we all know that gunmen are either lefties or troubled lone wolves that are just plain crazy. They're never, ever influenced by the right wing, or by libertarian ideas, or by violent political rhetoric on TV and talk radio. That's just a myth perpetuated by the left, don'tcha know.

///

35 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:22:54pm

re: #22 jamesfirecat

Do you have any posts involving people in positions of power within the democratic party saying Antisemetic things?

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.

36 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:22:57pm

re: #29 Obdicut

That must explain why so few Jews are elected by the GOP, and so many are elected by the Democrats.
/

Well that is because we obviously don't know what is good for us!/

37 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:23:49pm

re: #35 Buck

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.

Al Sharpton is your go to? Weak tea.

38 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:23:57pm

Here's a link to some "good" ones. Because nothing says "Cut Spending" like "Obama's Plan: White Slavery." What a bunch of tool wankers.
Your text to link...

39 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:24:20pm

re: #33 Charles

The word is "antisemitic."

And yes, I do have examples of antisemitism from the left. But the volume and ugliness of the hate coming out of the right has no parallel on the left.

Here's a good question... in the interest of "balance" maybe we should role out some pics/examples of antisemitism on the American right... if it exists of course...

40 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:24:49pm

re: #35 Buck

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.

It really, really matters for the strength of your argument that the person in question say the antisemitic thing before or during their time in office. It matters that they are elected, and hold real power. It also matters that it was in the last decade or so, because at some point, it's no longer relevant.

41 sagehen  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:24:54pm

re: #22 jamesfirecat

Do you have any posts involving people in positions of power within the democratic party saying Antisemetic things?

Jesse Jackson said something once in 1984. That's total magical balance to everything to everything Sharon Angle, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have said in 2010.

//

42 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:25:01pm

re: #35 Buck

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.


Now show me proof that Al Sharpton has power within the democratic party....

43 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:25:39pm

re: #35 Buck

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.

When was he in power?

44 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:26:15pm

Sharpton is such a lame example. He isn't even all that popular on the left, for fuck's sake.

45 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:26:23pm

Those pics remind me of a classic line from True Grit: "Mighty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man."

And it is talk for most of them but with millions exposed someone is bound to develop the full-blown disease.

46 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:26:47pm

re: #35 Buck

Do you have anything more current than 20 years ago?

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:27:21pm

re: #35 Buck

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.

Yes, Buck. Sixteen years ago. Now, in that case, you clearly believe that Sharpton's rhetoric led to that tragedy, so can you explain why it's so unbelievable that the crap spewed by the current RWR types could have led to today's tragedy?

48 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:27:23pm

re: #44 Fozzie Bear

Sharpton is such a lame example. He isn't even all that popular on the left, for fuck's sake.

I have his 3 x 5 in my billfold...

49 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:27:27pm

re: #39 jamesfirecat

Here's a good question... in the interest of "balance" maybe we should role out some pics/examples of antisemitism on the American right... if it exists of course...

Crazy Uncle Pat Buchanan has practically made a career out of being an anti-Semite. And every Alex Jones and Ron Paul rant about "the banks" and about the Bilderberg Group is about Da Jooz.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:27:47pm

re: #37 Amory Blaine

Al Sharpton is your go to? Weak tea.

Al Sharpton is the permanent go-to.

51 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:28:16pm

re: #37 Amory Blaine

Al Sharpton is your go to? Weak tea.

I know no matter who I list you can just say it doesn't count.

President Carter, Cynthia McKinney, Earl Hilliard, Jesse Jackson, Congressman James Moran...

AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel...

AND the Democrats that accused Joe of split loyalties...

52 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:29:30pm

re: #44 Fozzie Bear

Sharpton is such a lame example. He isn't even all that popular on the left, for fuck's sake.

Today that is true, but he was a very prominent figures at John Kerry's nominating convention.

53 celticdragon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:30:13pm

re: #49 Lidane

Crazy Uncle Pat Buchanan has practically made a career out of being an anti-Semite. And every Alex Jones and Ron Paul rant about "the banks" and about the Bilderberg Group is about Da Jooz.


Exactly.

54 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:30:17pm

re: #52 Buck

Bullshit. He's never been prominent except in his own mind.

Sharpton has as much influence these days as Pat Paulsen.

55 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:31:06pm

re: #51 Buck

I know no matter who I list you can just say it doesn't count.

President Carter, Cynthia McKinney, Earl Hilliard, Jesse Jackson, Congressman James Moran...

AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel...

AND the Democrats that accused Joe of split loyalties...

Is it possible (however unlikely) to be against Israel without being an antisemite?

I ask this as a purely hypothetical question because I know for better or worse at times Israel can be a bit of a third rail at this blog (though something being the third rail is not necessarily a bad thing when there are good reason for it to be so for example Social Security and Medicare rightfully should be a third rail in American politics since without those programs there are doubtlessly many Seniors who would be unable to support themselves in their advancing age...)

(Oh god please don't hurt me...)

56 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:31:09pm

re: #51 Buck

Cater has been long out of power. McKinney was primaried and lost. Earl Hillard left office years ago. Jesse Jackson has been out of office and out of the center of influence for years. Moran was shouted down by Pelosi for his comments.


Can you really not see the weakness of your case?

57 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:31:55pm

re: #7 Charles

I have many, many more photos like this in my archives.

Excellent post. Thanks Charles!

I'm assuming that this man didn't like her for something that had either to do with her political or religious beliefs. In his warp and twisted mind, she had to die. In reality, when it comes down to it, it makes no difference whether he's on the Right and Left. He's either a highly dysfunctional and evil person, or he's suffering from some mental illness. I suspect we're gonna found out all kinds of interesting things about him. Reminds me of the Virginia State killer? Few years back. A guy who just snaps.

But my issue with the Right is that these people exist, the unstable, for whatever reason. And it's really a bad idea to promote things that will just feed into their anger, like "don't retreat, reload", the crosshairs map, the rhetoric.

The biggest culprit, of course, are the very liberal gun laws in that state.

58 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:32:04pm

re: #55 jamesfirecat

It's a moot point anyway. None of those examples are current beyond Moran, and Moran is an example of anti-semitic comments not being tolerated by the Democratic party.

59 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:33:02pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Cater has been long out of power. McKinney was primaried and lost. Earl Hillard left office years ago. Jesse Jackson has been out of office and out of the center of influence for years. Moran was shouted down by Pelosi for his comments.

Can you really not see the weakness of your case?

My point is that you get to pick the start date of when these people 'count'.

60 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:33:04pm

that's a lot of patriotic flab

61 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:33:13pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Can you really not see the weakness of your case?

Wouldn't self-awareness be required before that could happen?

62 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:33:55pm

re: #55 jamesfirecat

Is it possible (however unlikely) to be against Israel without being an antisemite?

I ask this as a purely hypothetical question because I know for better or worse at times Israel can be a bit of a third rail at this blog (though something being the third rail is not necessarily a bad thing when there are good reason for it to be so for example Social Security and Medicare rightfully should be a third rail in American politics since without those programs there are doubtlessly many Seniors who would be unable to support themselves in their advancing age...)

(Oh god please don't hurt me...)

Who did I list for simply being against Israel?

63 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:34:01pm

re: #59 Buck

My point is that you get to pick the start date of when these people 'count'.

Does 2002 sound fair to everyone here? So it has to be within the last decade?

64 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:34:03pm

re: #60 WindUpBird

Well, they only claim to be exercising their amendments.

65 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:34:19pm

re: #62 Buck

Who did I list for simply being against Israel?


"AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel..."

66 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:34:21pm

re: #59 Buck

Because something that Al Sharpton spewed from his pie hole sixteen years ago means something to a 22-year old gunman today.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:34:25pm

re: #51 Buck

I know no matter who I list you can just say it doesn't count.

President Carter, Cynthia McKinney, Earl Hilliard, Jesse Jackson, Congressman James Moran...

AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel...

AND the Democrats that accused Joe of split loyalties...


I'm sorry, this isn't the same crowd it was in 2005, sorry dude

68 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:34:56pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

Yea? Who'd they kill?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:35:05pm

re: #51 Buck

I know no matter who I list you can just say it doesn't count.

President Carter, Cynthia McKinney, Earl Hilliard, Jesse Jackson, Congressman James Moran...

AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel...

AND the Democrats that accused Joe of split loyalties...

OK, Buck. There are anti-Semites in the Democratic Party. Now, does this have shit to do with the situation today?

70 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:35:40pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, Buck. There are anti-Semites in the Democratic Party. Now, does this have shit to do with the situation today?

Didn't you know? It's proof that the gunman was a lefty! It's balance!

71 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:35:42pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

"AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel..."

That is not being against Israel. that is accusing jews of manipulating and controlling the US government.

Is that the same thing to you?

72 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:35:45pm

re: #66 Lidane

Because something that Al Sharpton spewed from his pie hole sixteen years ago means something to a 22-year old gunman today.

hahaha BUT WHAT ABOUT JIMMY CARTER?!?!

I mean he was almost like NEGATIVE TWELVE YEARS OLD when carter was in office

73 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:36:22pm

re: #59 Buck

My point is that you get to pick the start date of when these people 'count'.

It's not about start date, Buck. It's about end date. And it's about that one of your examples, Moran, was repudiated by the legislative leader of the Democrats, Nancy Pelosi, for his comments.

Do you have any current examples whatsoever of prominent Democrats engaging in antisemitic speech?

Can you show me any prominent GOP members condemning Angle's dangerous, stupid "2nd amendment solutions" statement?

74 Buck  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:36:43pm

re: #70 Lidane

Didn't you know? It's proof that the gunman was a lefty! It's balance!

I have been very clear that I think the gunman was just crazy, and has views from BOTH sides of the political extreme.

75 kirkspencer  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:36:43pm

re: #51 Buck

I know no matter who I list you can just say it doesn't count.

President Carter, Cynthia McKinney, Earl Hilliard, Jesse Jackson, Congressman James Moran...

AND anyone who says the USA went to war in Iraq for Israel...

AND the Democrats that accused Joe of split loyalties...

Moran. Now there is an outstanding example. Let's compare and contrast, shall we?

When Moran made his remarks, what was the response of the Democratic leadership?

Now let's take, oh, how about Bachman and her House Call. About a week after showing it she did admit some of the signs were inappropriate, but Moran also backed off. What's relevant, here, is to point out that none - zero members - of the Republican leadership called her on it. The calls from political leaders were from Democratic leaders.

When similar events occur, and one side condemns and forces a retraction while the other sits in silence, the sides are not the same.

76 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:36:54pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

I'm sorry, this isn't the same crowd it was in 2005, sorry dude

Or 2008 for that matter.

77 celticdragon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:37:26pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Cater has been long out of power. McKinney was primaried and lost. Earl Hillard left office years ago. Jesse Jackson has been out of office and out of the center of influence for years. Moran was shouted down by Pelosi for his comments.


Can you really not see the weakness of your case?


No. The magical balance fairy charged him her usual fee plus extra for tieing him up and walking on him with 4 inch stilleto heels. He wants his full money's worth.

78 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:37:32pm

Buck is playing this thread guys

classic pushback, classic distraction, it's almost clever, but I think he does it accidentally because he's more of a repetitive rube from the 2004 days

79 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:37:40pm

re: #51 Buck

As a proudly Zionist left-wing Jew, I am officially relieving you of the job of maintaining the "who all is antisemitic" list on my behalf. Thank you.

80 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:37:44pm

re: #76 recusancy

Or 2008 for that matter.

true *_*

81 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:21pm

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is Jewish and a democrat.

82 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:27pm

Obama is speaking now.

83 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:29pm

re: #75 kirkspencer

Moran. Now there is an outstanding example. Let's compare and contrast, shall we?

When Moran made his remarks, what was the response of the Democratic leadership?

Now let's take, oh, how about Bachman and her House Call. About a week after showing it she did admit some of the signs were inappropriate, but Moran also backed off. What's relevant, here, is to point out that none - zero members - of the Republican leadership called her on it. The calls from political leaders were from Democratic leaders.

When similar events occur, and one side condemns and forces a retraction while the other sits in silence, the sides are not the same.

don't bother, the guy is trolling

84 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:48pm

re: #71 Buck

That is not being against Israel. that is accusing jews of manipulating and controlling the US government.

Is that the same thing to you?

Do you realize that you changed the word "Israel" into "the jews", thus ironically supporting the point to which you were objecting?

85 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:50pm

re: #71 Buck

That is not being against Israel. that is accusing jews of manipulating and controlling the US government.

Is that the same thing to you?

So if my buddy asks me for a favour he's manipulating and controlling me if I agree?

86 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:55pm

re: #71 Buck

That is not being against Israel. that is accusing jews of manipulating and controlling the US government.

Is that the same thing to you?

Its accusing Israel of manipulating and controlling the US government...

That's why I asked my tentative previous question... is it possible (however unlikely) to be against Israel but not against the Jews?

87 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:38:56pm

or maybe I had the Tivo on pause. Sorry!

88 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:39:12pm

re: #74 Buck

And it's obvious from the actual evidence presented so far that you're not only wrong, but simply desperate to be right. If he's just crazy, then he can't be tarred with any association with the right wing, or any influence from them at all.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. It's the same crap that had people turning the asshole here in Austin who flew his plane into the IRS building into just a nut instead of a political terrorist, when he was clearly both.

89 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:39:13pm

re: #81 Amory Blaine

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is Jewish and a democrat.

If an elected official is Jewish, they are almost always a Democrat.

90 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:39:28pm

re: #81 Amory Blaine

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is Jewish and a democrat.

Ah. A self-hating Democrat.

91 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:39:45pm

re: #76 recusancy

Or 2008 for that matter.

I'll go to 2009 honestly.

92 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:39:50pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Its accusing Israel of manipulating and controlling the US government...

That's why I asked my tentative previous question... is it possible (however unlikely) to be against Israel but not against the Jews?

That question is just going to serve the purpose of derailing the thread, James.

Being 'against Israel' isn't a coherent position, anyway. The question makes no sense.

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:39:50pm

re: #74 Buck

I have been very clear that I think the gunman was just crazy, and has views from BOTH sides of the political extreme.

Yes, which is what you were going to decide regardless.

94 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:40:32pm

re: #74 Buck

I have been very clear that I think the gunman was just crazy, and has views from BOTH sides of the political extreme.

What were his politically extreme left wing views?

95 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:40:34pm

re: #71 Buck

That is not being against Israel. that is accusing jews of manipulating and controlling the US government.

Is that the same thing to you?

You get this info from where?

96 sagehen  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:41:07pm

re: #89 Obdicut

If an elected official is Jewish, they are almost always a Democrat.

Except Joe Lieberman.

[rimshot]

97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:41:39pm

so since Buck appeared in this thread..


there have been 37 comments either to him or by him


and all just responding to his transparent nonsense that makes zero sense to anyone here


Just FYI guys, this fool isn't worth our time

98 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:41:54pm

re: #96 sagehen

Technically, he's not. He's an Independent, since he ran on the Connecticut for Lieberman ticket.

99 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:42:02pm

re: #74 Buck

I have been very clear that I think the gunman was just crazy, and has views from BOTH sides of the political extreme.

... and killing a politician while having a youtube channel and a myspace page full of extremist libertarian propaganda is a totally apolitical act. /

100 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:42:02pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

I'm sorry, this isn't the same crowd it was in 2005, sorry dude

re: #76 recusancy

Or 2008 for that matter.

Thank G-d...

101 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:42:03pm

well, more like 41 now

102 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:42:14pm

re: #90 Decatur Deb

Ah. A self-hating Democrat.

Are there any other kind?

103 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:42:28pm

I wonder how long we will remember this.
Most people have forgotten the folks killed in TN at their church by a guy who hated them because they were liberals.
Or the policemen killed by a guy who thought they and Obama were going to take his guns away.
Or the policemen killed in West Memphis by that guy and his son.
Or the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.

104 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:43:13pm

re: #100 talon_262

re: #76 recusancy

Thank G-d...

Yeah I was just reading an '08 thread. Pretty crazy. Like an alternate universe.

105 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:43:18pm

re: #92 Obdicut

That question is just going to serve the purpose of derailing the thread, James.

Being 'against Israel' isn't a coherent position, anyway. The question makes no sense.

How about being against some of the policies of the current government of a country?

106 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:43:19pm

re: #96 sagehen

Except Joe Lieberman.

[rimshot]

Joe is kind of an island unto himself.

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:43:24pm

re: #103 webevintage

I wonder how long we will remember this.
Most people have forgotten the folks killed in TN at their church by a guy who hated them because they were liberals.
Or the policemen killed by a guy who thought they and Obama were going to take his guns away.
Or the policemen killed in West Memphis by that guy and his son.
Or the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.

this is the climate of our country I guess

Though a member of congress, that's probably something that will stick with us.

108 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:43:45pm

re: #97 WindUpBird

so since Buck appeared in this thread..

there have been 37 comments either to him or by him

and all just responding to his transparent nonsense that makes zero sense to anyone here

Just FYI guys, this fool isn't worth our time

Some of us find troll punting to be the reason we come to LGF in the first place thank you very much.

109 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:43:58pm

re: #97 WindUpBird

so since Buck appeared in this thread..

there have been 37 comments either to him or by him

and all just responding to his transparent nonsense that makes zero sense to anyone here

Just FYI guys, this fool isn't worth our time

Always good to have an opportunity to hone your skills lol

110 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:44:23pm

re: #97 WindUpBird

so since Buck appeared in this thread..

there have been 37 comments either to him or by him

and all just responding to his transparent nonsense that makes zero sense to anyone here

Just FYI guys, this fool isn't worth our time

It's too damn cold to go out and play, so I have to play indoors.

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:44:29pm

re: #104 recusancy

Yeah I was just reading an '08 thread. Pretty crazy. Like an alternate universe.

I actually did not particiapte in any blog besides (occasionally) my own in 2008, I probably would have not lasted long on the 2008 LGf :D

112 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:44:37pm

re: #108 jamesfirecat

Some of us find troll punting to be the reason we come to LGF in the first place thank you very much.

I only come here for the drama.

113 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:44:52pm

Wow, amazing run by Seahawks Lynch. Just amazing. Who are these guys.

Sorry to stray from the topic at hand.

114 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:45:13pm

re: #112 recusancy

I only come here for the drama.

I come for the wings!!

115 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:45:33pm

re: #103 webevintage

Good question.

I know I won't forget the asshole who flew his plane into the IRS building. If he'd aimed for the FBI instead, he'd have hit the building where I took some night classes in my undergrad, and might have hurt folks there. It's scary to think that something like that could've affected people I know.

116 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:45:39pm

re: #103 webevintage

I wonder how long we will remember this.
Most people have forgotten the folks killed in TN at their church by a guy who hated them because they were liberals.
Or the policemen killed by a guy who thought they and Obama were going to take his guns away.
Or the policemen killed in West Memphis by that guy and his son.
Or the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.

You're forgetting the security guard in the Holocaust museum killed by the White Supremacist...

117 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:45:50pm

re: #105 b_sharp

How about being against some of the policies of the current government of a country?

For god's sake. What is the perverse urge to pursue this threadjack?

Some people are 'against Israel' in that they don't think Israel should exist.

Others are 'against Israel' in that they accuse Israel of war crimes and apartheid and other ridiculous bullshit based on faulty information or outright lies.

Others are 'against some policies of Israel'.

For the question about being 'against Israel' to make any sense, a distinction would have to be made.

But since it has absolutely fuck-all to do with the subject of the thread, why is here and now the time to start hashing out the relationship between anti-semitism and anti-Israel sentiment?

118 KingKenrod  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:45:53pm

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

... and killing a politician while having a youtube channel and a myspace page full of extremist libertarian propaganda is a totally apolitical act. /

I think the bit about refusing to pay debts in anything not backed by silver or gold clinches his political leanings...he's some kind of sovereign citizen nut.

119 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:46:31pm

re: #114 Amory Blaine

I come for the wings!!

No meat on wings. Breasts on the other hand...

120 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:46:54pm

re: #116 jamesfirecat

You're forgetting the security guard in the Holocaust museum killed by the White Supremacist...

It used to be so much more difficult to keep this shit straight before the internet.

121 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:47:23pm

re: #118 KingKenrod

I think the bit about refusing to pay debts in anything not backed by silver or gold clinches his political leanings...he's some kind of sovereign citizen nut.

I suppose there could be a left-wing hippie soverign citizen in some parallel universe sort of way it just...doesn't seem to have the uh CULTURAL INFRASTRCTURE that the right wing does with regard to these thoughts

122 KingKenrod  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:47:29pm

re: #113 The Shadow Do

Wow, amazing run by Seahawks Lynch. Just amazing. Who are these guys.

Sorry to stray from the topic at hand.

That was amazing. 70 yards. Broke at least 5 tackles.

123 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:47:44pm

re: #113 The Shadow Do

That might have been the greatest run since the glory days of Barry Sanders. Broke six tackles.

124 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:47:47pm

This was just posted by a banned Lizard, Bob in Breckenridge, at another blog....

If she was a liberal, all she’d need was stitches, since her brains would be in her ass.
125 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:48:13pm

Again back from my walk an nary a walker. Nothing but cars. Kind of surprised really. I thought people in Denver were concerned about climate change.

126 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:48:16pm

re: #103 webevintage

I wonder how long we will remember this.
Most people have forgotten the folks killed in TN at their church by a guy who hated them because they were liberals.
Or the policemen killed by a guy who thought they and Obama were going to take his guns away.
Or the policemen killed in West Memphis by that guy and his son.
Or the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.

Or the murder of George Tiller.

127 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:48:17pm

re: #59 Buck

My point is that you get to pick the start date of when these people 'count'.

I understand the instinct to obfuscate about this but I'm genuinely curious if you really think deep down that it's going to pan out for you in the long run. We're just going to see more of this and you have to understand somewhere deep down inside that as long as conservatives lump themselves in with libertarian extremists that this is going to be a problem. Glenn Beck's wild conspiracy theories are never going to become true and they're only going to hurt the American right. Why won't more people stand up and speak out against this? They are only hurting themselves.

128 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:48:44pm

re: #121 WindUpBird

I suppose there could be a left-wing hippie soverign citizen in some parallel universe sort of way it just...doesn't seem to have the uh CULTURAL INFRASTRCTURE that the right wing does with regard to these thoughts

Yeah there are probably left wing hippies who want to go off and do their own thing away from the government... but those hippies don't insist that the government's currency be backed by gold or silver...

They just don't....

129 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:49:05pm

re: #124 Reginald Perrin

This was just posted by a banned Lizard, Bob in Breckenridge, at another blog...

hoho that's a PATRIOT! PRAISE BE!

I wonder if he waves his American flag and brags about how many guns he has as he mashes his keyboard with cheeto stained fingers

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:49:25pm

re: #128 jamesfirecat

Yeah there are probably left wing hippies who want to go off and do their own thing away from the government... but those hippies don't insist that the government's currency be backed by gold or silver...

They just don't...

oh that's true :D Hippies do not go all Austrian economics hrlglghrlgbhr

131 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:49:49pm

re: #118 KingKenrod

I think the bit about refusing to pay debts in anything not backed by silver or gold clinches his political leanings...he's some kind of sovereign citizen nut.

Yup. Anybody who talks about minting their own currency and such is waaaaaaay out there politically. Unfortunately, the stuff this guy was saying isn't all that different from that bill in Georgia (?) demanding that the state only collect gold for tax revenue.

132 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:49:52pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

I understand the instinct to obfuscate about this but I'm genuinely curious if you really think deep down that it's going to pan out for you in the long run. We're just going to see more of this and you have to understand somewhere deep down inside that as long as conservatives lump themselves in with libertarian extremists that this is going to be a problem. Glenn Beck's wild conspiracy theories are never going to become true and they're only going to hurt the American right. Why won't more people stand up and speak out against this? They are only hurting themselves.

Because in the here and now its the only way they can win elections.

133 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:50:01pm

re: #128 jamesfirecat

Yeah there are probably left wing hippies who want to go off and do their own thing away from the government... but those hippies don't insist that the government's currency be backed by gold or silver...

They just don't...

Granola maybe but not gold.

134 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:50:09pm

re: #130 WindUpBird

oh that's true :D Hippies do not go all Austrian economics hrlglghrlgbhr

More into Columbian agriculture IIRC.

135 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:50:12pm

re: #130 WindUpBird

oh that's true :D Hippies do not go all Austrian economics hrlglghrlgbhr

That's because they can't even pronounce it... or spell it...

136 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:50:25pm

re: #119 b_sharp

A finely honed veiled attempt at hijacking this to a boob thread!
Maybe another time....but *Ding* for the thought!!

137 palomino  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:50:43pm

re: #35 Buck

Do they have to be in power at this exact minute? Or can it be democrats in power who said antisemetic things in the recent past?

You may recall some of Rev. Al’s more memorable speeches like when he referred to Jews as “diamond merchants” with the “blood of innocent babies on their hands.” Or his speech about “white interlopers” outside Jewish-owned Freddy’s Fashion Mart, where a Sharpton supporter later shot four people and set the place on fire.

That's the best you got? Sharpton's a joke in the party, never even held an elected position. If he had any real power, do you think Obama would have quickly distanced himself from all things Sharpton?

138 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:51:14pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

More into Columbian agriculture IIRC.

ahahaha yes

139 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:51:42pm

update on the count--19 injured, 6 dead

140 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:52:21pm

re: #129 WindUpBird
re: #124 Reginald Perrin

This was just posted by a banned Lizard, Bob in Breckenridge, at another blog...

hoho that's a PATRIOT! PRAISE BE!

I wonder if he waves his American flag and brags about how many guns he has as he mashes his keyboard with cheeto stained fingers

As Faux News blares from the television.

141 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:52:29pm

re: #103 webevintage

I wonder how long we will remember this.
Most people have forgotten the folks killed in TN at their church by a guy who hated them because they were liberals.
Or the policemen killed by a guy who thought they and Obama were going to take his guns away.
Or the policemen killed in West Memphis by that guy and his son.
Or the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.

As a culture, America has demonstrated that a few losses to random violence, no matter the reason, are okay. They're just okay. Yes, we're all very sad about them for a bit, and there's some hand-wringing, but we're totally okay with people dying to random gun violence every day.

In other words, if your rhetoric leads only to a few deaths that exist as sort of background noise, there's no penalty to your rhetoric.

142 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:52:29pm

re: #139 BryanS

update on the count--19 injured, 6 dead

Jeebus f***ing cripes, what kind of gun was he using?

143 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:53:24pm

Looks like from now on we're going to have to utilize metal detectors and provide armed security for these events.

144 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:53:24pm

re: #113 The Shadow Do

Wow, amazing run by Seahawks Lynch. Just amazing. Who are these guys.

Seriously. Where the hell was this team in the regular season? That was amazing.

145 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:53:45pm

re: #117 Obdicut

For god's sake. What is the perverse urge to pursue this threadjack?

Some people are 'against Israel' in that they don't think Israel should exist.

Others are 'against Israel' in that they accuse Israel of war crimes and apartheid and other ridiculous bullshit based on faulty information or outright lies.

Others are 'against some policies of Israel'.

For the question about being 'against Israel' to make any sense, a distinction would have to be made.

But since it has absolutely fuck-all to do with the subject of the thread, why is here and now the time to start hashing out the relationship between anti-semitism and anti-Israel sentiment?

I'm curious about how narrow and one dimensional are Buck's thought processes. I responded to your post because I knew you would express a broader concept.

146 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:16pm

re: #143 Gus 802

Looks like from now on we're going to have to utilize metal detectors and provide armed security for these events.

Is it too soon to note the irony in the name of the grocery store?

147 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:16pm

re: #137 palomino

That's the best you got? Sharpton's a joke in the party, never even held an elected position. If he had any real power, do you think Obama would have quickly distanced himself from all things Sharpton?

Sharpton and Gringrich worked on a project together with the Sec of Education, Arne Duncan. It was a good program, had a good ideal anyway, but I don't know what's going on with it now.

[Link: www2.ed.gov...]

148 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:22pm

re: #144 Lidane

Seriously. Where the hell was this team in the regular season? That was amazing.


In the NFC Worst.

149 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:30pm

re: #142 jamesfirecat

Jeebus f***ing cripes, what kind of gun was he using?

Reported as a Glock with an extended mag...

150 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:40pm

re: #142 jamesfirecat

Just extra magazines....
No one has report caliber or make...I Know it was a hypothetical
question...

151 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:40pm

The only one to blame for this horrible violence is the person that did it. Crazy people do crazy things that is just a sad fact. Today is a sad day.

152 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:54:41pm

re: #146 wrenchwench

Is it too soon to note the irony in the name of the grocery store?

Maybe.

153 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:00pm

re: #142 jamesfirecat

Jeebus f***ing cripes, what kind of gun was he using?

9mm glock?

154 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:10pm

re: #151 elBarto

The only one to blame for this horrible violence is the person that did it. Crazy people do crazy things that is just a sad fact. Today is a sad day.

more bitch pushback, fuck you

155 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:11pm

re: #151 elBarto

The only one to blame for this horrible violence is the person that did it. Crazy people do crazy things that is just a sad fact. Today is a sad day.

I hope you are correct but I fear you may be mistaken.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:25pm

re: #107 WindUpBird

this is the climate of our country I guess

Though a member of congress, that's probably something that will stick with us.

What this is bringing up for me, very strongly, is Leo Ryan being shot in Guyana. It's obviously not a very similar situation, but it's something that resonates a lot in the Bay Area, and I'm just reminded.

157 Tigger2  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:34pm

re: #17 palomino

Sure, and a lot of tea partiers are young too. But there's an overarching socio-demographic trend which puts the core of the tea party on the losing end numerically. Things are slowly changing for the better. It may take a while, but we really don't have to worry about angry white reactionary know-nothing populists determining the course of America indefinitely. For now though, it's totally a fucked up movement.

Yes the
"core of the tea party on the losing end numerically."
but so is the GOPs as of today I am no longer a Republican, I will no longer be affiliated with any group the aliens itself with the tea party or the birches or any neo Nazis or any hate group.
I will not be associated with a party that even I now am seeing as a party of mostly hate.

158 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:41pm

re: #151 elBarto

Hi elB!

159 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:48pm

re: #151 elBarto

Pfft. Whatever.

160 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:55:53pm

@daveweigel: Fox News streams video from AZ vigil, cuts when dude says "and WHY, Sarah Palin..."

161 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:56:03pm

re: #147 marjoriemoon

Sharpton and Gringrich worked on a project together with the Sec of Education, Arne Duncan. It was a good program, had a good ideal anyway, but I don't know what's going on with it now.

[Link: www2.ed.gov...]

Ya gotta keep guys like this busy so they stay outa trouble.

162 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:56:25pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

What this is bringing up for me, very strongly, is Leo Ryan being shot in Guyana. It's obviously not a very similar situation, but it's something that resonates a lot in the Bay Area, and I'm just reminded.

OH Jonestown, right

yeah :/

163 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:56:41pm

re: #141 Renaissance_Man

As a culture, America has demonstrated that a few losses to random violence, no matter the reason, are okay. They're just okay. Yes, we're all very sad about them for a bit, and there's some hand-wringing, but we're totally okay with people dying to random gun violence every day.

In other words, if your rhetoric leads only to a few deaths that exist as sort of background noise, there's no penalty to your rhetoric.

What worries me is some certifiable right wing only crazy is going to try and go for the president, fail (or worse yet pull it off) and it still won't make the GOP bat an eyelash or admit they're doing something wrong...

164 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:56:55pm

This is a Glock full auto...

165 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:57:24pm

re: #44 Fozzie Bear

He's not a black "leader" either. We laugh at his perm.

166 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:57:54pm

re: #151 elBarto

Are you well rested after your long sleep?

167 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:57:58pm

re: #157 Tigger2

Exactly, and thank you. I jumped off that ship a few years ago. Any party that uses wedge issues and demonizes gays for votes will get a quick 86 from me.

168 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:58:21pm

And this is two Glocks with the extender. 8 seconds...

169 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:58:21pm

This is a wake up call to listen to your family members and friends. Don't allow the violent rhetoric to damage your loved ones minds.

170 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:58:27pm

Buck

Antisemitism is racism. There are different kids of racism. We all understand that

Advocating the elimination of political adversaries is kind of racism in itself, albeit one couched in political garb. If a progressive calls for the disenfranchisement of conservatives, that progressive is a bigot. If a conservative calls for the disenfranchisement of progressives, that conservative is a bigot.

When either side calls for violence that ratchets up the bigotry to a whole other level. The call be either literal or suggestive.

There was a time in the late 60's and 70's the left were far more likely to be involved in violence. The Democrats cleaned house and disavowed themselves from that kind of behavior. Right now, the right is is engaged in that kind of rhetoric far more than the left. That is the reality- and I say that as an unashamed right of center individual.

In a free society one can ands should advocate, even vigorously, for a government that represents their particular point of view. Violence or hate is part of that equation That never includes advocating, justifying or apologizing for violence or bigotry.

'Soft' bigotry cloaked in political rhetoric is no different than 'soft' Antisemitism cloaked in anti Israel rhetoric.

Let me put it in terms you can relate to.

If you have no problem with the 'soft' bigotry of much of the right, don't tell me you have a problem with 'soft' Antisemitism of the left.

They are on and the same.

171 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:58:49pm

re: #151 elBarto

The only one to blame for this horrible violence is the person that did it. Crazy people do crazy things that is just a sad fact. Today is a sad day.

So, you think he was born that way, I mean born a person intent on committing an act of political violence. Or at some point in his life, without any influence from books, magazines, music, the internet or the ranting and ravings of political agitators, he just decided to open fire on a gathering of politicians?

Nature or nurture... how did he come to be who he was. Elaborate?

172 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:58:59pm

re: #164 Gus 802

Class three firearms are rare!!Out side of Military..P.D. rarely allow Officers that kind of fire power.

173 sagehen  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:59:10pm

re: #116 jamesfirecat

You're forgetting the security guard in the Holocaust museum killed by the White Supremacist...

And the guy who got in a shootout with California Highway Patrol on his way to the Tides Foundation.

174 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:59:44pm

re: #97 WindUpBird

so since Buck appeared in this thread..

there have been 37 comments either to him or by him

and all just responding to his transparent nonsense that makes zero sense to anyone here

Just FYI guys, this fool isn't worth our time

Obvious troll is obvious.

175 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 4:59:50pm

re: #170 researchok

Buck

Antisemitism is racism. There are different kids of racism. We all understand that

Advocating the elimination of political adversaries is kind of racism in itself, albeit one couched in political garb. If a progressive calls for the disenfranchisement of conservatives, that progressive is a bigot. If a conservative calls for the disenfranchisement of progressives, that conservative is a bigot.

When either side calls for violence that ratchets up the bigotry to a whole other level. The call be either literal or suggestive.

There was a time in the late 60's and 70's the left were far more likely to be involved in violence. The Democrats cleaned house and disavowed themselves from that kind of behavior. Right now, the right is is engaged in that kind of rhetoric far more than the left. That is the reality- and I say that as an unashamed right of center individual.

In a free society one can ands should advocate, even vigorously, for a government that represents their particular point of view. Violence or hate is part of that equation That never includes advocating, justifying or apologizing for violence or bigotry.

'Soft' bigotry cloaked in political rhetoric is no different than 'soft' Antisemitism cloaked in anti Israel rhetoric.

Let me put it in terms you can relate to.

If you have no problem with the 'soft' bigotry of much of the right, don't tell me you have a problem with 'soft' Antisemitism of the left.

They are on and the same.

(Golf clap)

176 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:00:01pm

PIMF

violence or hate is never part of that equation

177 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:00:17pm

re: #164 Gus 802

re: #168 Gus 802

Thanks for posting those.

Whoa.

178 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:00:32pm

re: #153 marjoriemoon

9mm glock?

Whatever the magazine, show here at 5:44, fits into.

179 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:01:08pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

re: #168 Gus 802

Thanks for posting those.

Whoa.

YW Doubt that he used anything like that. But that shows how maxed out a Glock can go.

180 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:01:57pm

re: #151 elBarto

The only one to blame for this horrible violence is the person that did it. Crazy people do crazy things that is just a sad fact. Today is a sad day.

No.
Nonononononono....

We as a society have to be willing to say that the signs above are just wrong....NO MATTER WHAT side of the political spectrum they are on.
That there is no place for that kind of message.
By saying "The only one to blame for this horrible violence is the person that did it." means that those who use violet rhetoric can just wash their hands without admitting that "crosshairs" and "second amendment remadies" do not add to the mix going into the head of said crazy person.

It says that a guy with a shit load of "rightwing books" can walk into a church and kill people because they accept gays and are liberal without the folks who ideas might have pushed him along at least accepting some personal responsibility for adding to the noise in his head that caused it.

It means that the rightwing folks on twitter can all blather on that today's shooter was a "liberal Nazi Commie" because then they and their queen Sarah never, ever, ever have to say that "yeah, maybe we have gone a bit too far".

181 ronaldusmagnus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:02:36pm

His friend refers to the shooter as a liberal.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Not having read each and every post, are we asked here to ascribe to someone's theory that right wing rhetoric inspired one who is characterized as a liberal to shoot a Democratic member of Congress?

182 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:02:38pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

(Golf clap)

It amazes me how many people cannot connect the dots- no matter how few, close and big the dots are.

183 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:02:39pm

re: #176 researchok

I'm a little new here, so can someone tell me what PIMF stands for?

184 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:03:14pm

re: #183 Kid A

I'm a little new here, so can someone tell me what PIMF stands for?

Preview is my friend.

185 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:03:37pm

re: #184 researchok

Thanks.

186 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:03:44pm

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

His friend refers to the shooter as a liberal.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Not having read each and every post, are we asked here to ascribe to someone's theory that right wing rhetoric inspired one who is characterized as a liberal to shoot a Democratic member of Congress?

One friend who has not seen him since 2007.....

187 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:03:47pm

re: #184 researchok

In other words, I didn't edit.

188 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:00pm

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

Reading is your friend. This has been addressed already. Go back through all the threads about this topic and find the answer.

189 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:12pm

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

If you're not going to read others' posts, why should anyone response in any fashion other than this to yours?

190 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:20pm

I wonder how long it will be till someone blames video games or Hollywood.

191 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:21pm

re: #187 researchok
Gotcha. Thanks again!

192 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:26pm

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

Don't believe everything someone writes on twitter. You can watch his videos for yourself.

193 KingKenrod  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:41pm

Good background update on Loughner:

[Link: azstarnet.com...]

He sounds insane. Real insane, not "pushed over the line" insane.

194 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:51pm

re: #144 Lidane

Seriously. Where the hell was this team in the regular season? That was amazing.


Up until today I could not have named one player on that team. Now I can. Marshawn Lynch. Barry Sanders-esqe thing of beauty run.

195 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:04:59pm

re: #179 Gus 802

YW Doubt that he used anything like that. But that shows how maxed out a Glock can go.

A really powerful Glock.

196 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:05:06pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

So, you think he was born that way, I mean born a person intent on committing an act of political violence. Or at some point in his life, without any influence from books, magazines, music, the internet or the ranting and ravings of political agitators, he just decided to open fire on a gathering of politicians?

Nature or nurture... how did he come to be who he was. Elaborate?

Ok... I'm sorry... I didn't realize that ElFarto was just dropping a turd in here and is totally incapable of responding to a comment that was generated by his original inquiry.

I'm sorry I even tried to feed the troll.

197 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:05:41pm

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

His friend refers to the shooter as a liberal.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Not having read each and every post, are we asked here to ascribe to someone's theory that right wing rhetoric inspired one who is characterized as a liberal to shoot a Democratic member of Congress?

My theory is he was anti-establishment liberterian that goes with his desire for a gold standard.

Thus when his friend last knew him in 2007 he would have appeared to be a liberal because he would have been opposed to much of what George W. Bush was doing, even if it was because Bush wasn't being enough of a "true conservative" .

Not saying this is the god's own truth of the mater, but its what I consider a reasonable theory that can't yet be discounted.

Also I am dubious of someone from Arizona being able to identify what main stream liberalism looks like.... not that its impossible just another factor that needs to be taken into account...

198 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:05:54pm

re: #164 Gus 802

re: #168 Gus 802

There are no circumstances under which I will ever go down into your basement. None.
//

199 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:06:17pm

re: #194 The Shadow Do

Barry was the man. Still the greatest running back of all time IMO.

200 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:06:30pm

re: #151 elBarto

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

I must have missed the "Reunion of the Class of 2004" notice on the marquee outside!

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:06:37pm

re: #139 BryanS

update on the count--19 injured, 6 dead

Baruch dayan emet.

202 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:06:57pm

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

His friend refers to the shooter as a liberal.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Not having read each and every post, are we asked here to ascribe to someone's theory that right wing rhetoric inspired one who is characterized as a liberal to shoot a Democratic member of Congress?

That Twitterer did not know how to spell the shooter's name, and hasn't seen him in four years. She's trying to get booked on Good Morning America.

203 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:07:17pm

Seattle wins in dramatic fashion...one of the best playoff games ever

204 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:07:38pm

I was talking about this with my father on the phone. He was in complete shock. He said "baby, they are shooting white women."

If this isn't a wake up call about what has been encouraged and unleashed on the right, I don't know what is. It's too hot out there and responsible people, who people on the right listen to and respect need to come out forcefully against all of this nonsense. They need to stop talking about their president, their fellow colleagues and entire groups of people like enemies of the state. They need to stop sounding like radio shock jocks and take some responsibility for what they don't speak out against. Too many people don't know that they are playing a political game and see their veiled comments and silence as agreement. Crazy people don't need that kind of encouragement.

If they are shooting white women, they will shoot anybody.

205 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:07:41pm

re: #193 KingKenrod

But another classmate describes him as a 'normal kid'. Obviously he is nuts. But he might have been variable.

206 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:07:45pm

re: #160 Stanley Sea

@daveweigel: Fox News streams video from AZ vigil, cuts when dude says "and WHY, Sarah Palin..."

Look, Sarah Palin has used extreme rhetoric. But it's a stretch to say she is the direct cause of this without further evidence--maybe that will come, but until it does we cannot assume this guy was motivated by Palin's words.

Daily Kos also had a "target list" and referred to votes from members, including Gifford, as putting a bullseye on them.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

The Kos posting has absolutely no direct bearing on this shooting, of course. But it is the same heated rhetoric Palin uses. As a leading figurehead, Palin should know better than to use rhetoric as charged as she does--and I hope one lesson from this tragedy is that all sides dial back extreme rhetoric.

207 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:07:55pm

re: #197 jamesfirecat

Yup. The libertarians in 2007 looked like raving liberals at the time and many of them probably did vote Dem. Ron Paul was so outlandish that they even blocked him from some of the debates.

208 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:08:06pm

re: #193 KingKenrod

Good background update on Loughner:

[Link: azstarnet.com...]

He sounds insane. Real insane, not "pushed over the line" insane.

Good read... the perfect profile of a right wing wacko.

209 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:08:22pm

re: #198 researchok

re: #168 Gus 802

There are no circumstances under which I will ever go down into your basement. None.
//

Yeah. Thought this was interesting:

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of the 8th Congressional District and 5th District Congressman Harry Mitchell, both Democrats, also objected to the ban. Giffords owns a Glock handgun and regards gun ownership as a constitutional right and an "Arizona tradition," said spokesman C.J. Karamargin.

210 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:08:33pm

re: #203 albusteve

That was one hell of a game. Though I still can't get over a 7-9 team being in the playoffs. But, as the saying goes, "That's why they play the games."

211 celticdragon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:08:55pm

re: #103 webevintage

I wonder how long we will remember this.
Most people have forgotten the folks killed in TN at their church by a guy who hated them because they were liberals.
Or the policemen killed by a guy who thought they and Obama were going to take his guns away.
Or the policemen killed in West Memphis by that guy and his son.
Or the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building.


I give it a day before Fox News "mistakenly" list her as a Republican.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:09:33pm

re: #165 moderatelyradicalliberal

He's not a black "leader" either. We laugh at his perm.

Sharpton is overdue for a better hairdo.

213 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:09:48pm

re: #209 Gus 802

Yeah. Thought this was interesting:

Bans are no cure for crazy.

214 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:09:56pm

re: #210 Kid A

That was one hell of a game. Though I still can't get over a 7-9 team being in the playoffs. But, as the saying goes, "That's why they play the games."

yup, and why I don't bet on football anymore...who knows?

215 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:10:00pm

re: #206 BryanS

Look, Sarah Palin has used extreme rhetoric. But it's a stretch to say she is the direct cause of this without further evidence--maybe that will come, but until it does we cannot assume this guy was motivated by Palin's words.

Daily Kos also had a "target list" and referred to votes from members, including Gifford, as putting a bullseye on them.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

The Kos posting has absolutely no direct bearing on this shooting, of course. But it is the same heated rhetoric Palin uses. As a leading figurehead, Palin should know better than to use rhetoric as charged as she does--and I hope one lesson from this tragedy is that all sides dial back extreme rhetoric.

Magical Balance Fairy... Magical Balance Fairy... poof! and let's dismiss all the evident facts.

216 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:10:06pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Sharpton is overdue for a better hairdo.

LOL

217 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:10:26pm

re: #200 bratwurst

re: #181 ronaldusmagnus

I must have missed the "Reunion of the Class of 2004" notice on the marquee outside!

Don't complain! The drinks are free! Right over there ------->

218 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:10:55pm

re: #214 albusteve

That's why I used to book in college. The students never knew! Paid for three semesters.

219 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:11:11pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he might be covering a bald spot. It could be worse. There are some older men who still wear Jherri Curls.

220 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:11:17pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton
I believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. If it turns out he is a lefty wacko who thinks she did not go far enough provide health care or some other lefty cause who will you blame then?

221 celticdragon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:11:53pm

re: #163 jamesfirecat

What worries me is some certifiable right wing only crazy is going to try and go for the president, fail (or worse yet pull it off) and it still won't make the GOP bat an eyelash or admit they're doing something wrong...

I have no doubt that Limbaugh will spend his entire Monday show on how evil the Dems are for talking about violent rhetoric, instead of how appalling the act was.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:11:57pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

That Twitterer did not know how to spell the shooter's name, and hasn't seen him in four years. She's trying to get booked on Good Morning America.

She will. She will.

223 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:00pm

re: #215 Walter L. Newton

Magical Balance Fairy... Magical Balance Fairy... poof! and let's dismiss all the evident facts.

Not at all what I was doing, but whatevers.

224 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:20pm

re: #219 moderatelyradicalliberal

LOL. Reminds me of a comedian (forgot the name, sorry) "Just follow the drip!"

225 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:24pm

Shocking news:

'Suspect had a troubled past'.

226 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:35pm

re: #199 Kid A

Barry was the man. Still the greatest running back of all time IMO.

Almost, I say Jim Brown. But here is the video from today just for fun.

227 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:43pm

re: #220 elBarto

I believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. If it turns out he is a lefty wacko who thinks she did not go far enough provide health care or some other lefty cause who will you blame then?

Bush!

228 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:46pm

re: #221 celticdragon

The fact that one of the shooter's 'favorite' books was the Communist Manifesto is going to be all the straw that talk radio blowhards need.

229 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:12:48pm

Just for a backgrounder:


Democratic House candidate, Arizona’s 8th District

Gabrielle Giffords owns a Glock handgun, and as a two-term Democratic congresswoman representing a swing district in Arizona’s rugged southeast, she may need one. Still, the NRA only gives her a tepid D+ rating. In a tough election cycle in which Democrats are bracing for a backlash from rural voters, every photo op counts, including this earlier one, featured on Giffords’s Flickr page. And that’s especially important when your competition is Jesse Kelly, renowned for once describing Sarah Palin as too moderate.

Image: 1288223953125.jpg

230 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:13:12pm

re: #219 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think he might be covering a bald spot. It could be worse. There are some older men who still wear Jherri Curls.

that's a nice job of you get the traffic, and don't get robbed...and enforcement can be a bitch

231 Justaminute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:13:29pm

At the press conference the sheriff stated there is a possibility he did not act alone and they have a pic of the possible accomplice.

232 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:13:55pm

re: #220 elBarto

I believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. If it turns out he is a lefty wacko who thinks she did not go far enough provide health care or some other lefty cause who will you blame then?

Yes I will blame any on the left who argued that Violence was the solution to helathcare/whatever not being passed.

Do you know any people like that?

233 celticdragon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:14:00pm

re: #220 elBarto

I believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. If it turns out he is a lefty wacko who thinks she did not go far enough provide health care or some other lefty cause who will you blame then?


I know dozens of lefties who blather on about the evils of going off the gold standard as well as how unconstitutional our current government is.

//

234 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:14:24pm

re: #229 Gus 802

Just for a backgrounder:


Democratic House candidate, Arizona’s 8th District

Image: 1288223953125.jpg

She seemed like just the kind of middle of the road Dem that is sorely in need in the Dem caucus. Hopefully she can continue to serve her district.

235 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:14:38pm

re: #226 The Shadow Do

You can definitely make an argument for Brown. Of course, being thirty-nine, I didn't get to see him play, so my memory is still very fresh of those amazing moves and jukes Sanders used to do. Oh, and thanks for the Lynch link!

236 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:14:39pm

re: #226 The Shadow Do

Almost, I say Jim Brown. But here is the video from today just for fun.

most exciting maybe...he was the greatest negative yards back

237 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:14:51pm

re: #229 Gus 802

Just for a backgrounder:


Democratic House candidate, Arizona’s 8th District

Image: 1288223953125.jpg

Me, I just carry a wallet.
/

238 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:15:01pm

re: #21 Buck

You have a good collection of antisemetic signs that were displayed at leftist rallies as well...

I'm sure he does. So do I given that I've been at such rallies holding pro-Israel signage. But this isn't about the antisemitism that underlies some far-left groups. We're dealing with right-wing extremism right now so stay on topic

239 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:15:03pm

re: #195 b_sharp

A really powerful Glock.

It'll blow you away...

/given the day's events, an unfortunate choice of words, but I'm trying to keep it light

240 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:15:19pm

re: #228 Obdicut

The fact that one of the shooter's 'favorite' books was the Communist Manifesto is going to be all the straw that talk radio blowhards need.

Play the Manifesto game this week with right wing radio. Every time Hannity and Levine say "Manifesto", drink!!!!

241 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:15:27pm

re: #236 albusteve

most exciting maybe...he was the greatest negative yards back

Sanders, that is...Backwards Barry

242 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:16:18pm

re: #240 Amory Blaine

Play the Manifesto game this week with right wing radio. Every time Hannity and Levine say "Manifesto", drink!!!

Sorry I treasure my liver too much... but if you don't perhaps I could enlighten some people here to the Stephen King drinking game?

243 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:16:20pm

re: #203 albusteve

Seattle wins in dramatic fashion...one of the best playoff games ever

It was a dramatic and very good game, though I'll admit I'm not real happy with the outcome.
:-)

244 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:16:29pm

re: #240 Amory Blaine

You'll be drunk in five minutes.

245 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:16:31pm

And Arizona has the death penalty. I think we have the perfect candidate here.

246 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:16:48pm

for any zombie insomniacs....American Experience has a few new vids up...I watched Sea Bisquit last night....very nice, and a hell of a story

247 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:17:19pm

re: #244 Kid A

You'll be drunk in five minutes.

We used to play the Bob game years ago (Bob Newhart Show)

248 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:17:24pm

re: #243 reine.de.tout

There are tons of Saints fans here (The Woodlands, TX.), and I'll be listening to their moaning here in about thirty minutes.

249 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:17:53pm

re: #245 Gus 802

And Arizona has the death penalty. I think we have the perfect candidate here.

Fire up Ole Sparky....?

250 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:18:22pm

re: #243 reine.de.tout

It was a dramatic and very good game, though I'll admit I'm not real happy with the outcome.
:-)

too bad baby...it's football...I'm a Cowboy fan so maybe we can share the kleenex?

251 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:18:33pm

re: #231 Justaminute

At the press conference the sheriff stated there is a possibility he did not act alone and they have a pic of the possible accomplice.

I just saw that on twitter, but the story linked to doesn't mention anything.
argh.

252 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:18:34pm

If you really need to blame some one one I nominate Hannity, Olberman Beck Maddow et al. These are the blow hards that feed the nuts. They have hours of time to fill and so they spout the most asinine bull shit.

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:18:48pm

re: #220 elBarto

I believe that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. If it turns out he is a lefty wacko who thinks she did not go far enough provide health care or some other lefty cause who will you blame then?

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. However, if it turns out that the shooter was motivated by violent rhetoric from left-wing figures, I will hold THEM accountable for what they said.

See, this is the thing. If the Baader-Meinhof Gang, or the Weathermen, or WTF, come back from the crypt and start spewing hate and blowing shit up, I will not be backing them, because, you see, I am an American liberal, and they are freakazoid assholes, and will be even if I find one or two basic ideas we agree on. If their rhetoric starts to be parroted by Democrats in Washington, I will not vote for those people, and will actively campaign for non-crazy Democrats.

And I certainly won't be caught dead on LGF pretending that the Weathermen are 'really a mix' of extreme right-wing and left-wing ideas, I will just be condemning their asses as radical terrorists. I don't like radical terrorists.

This isn't so hard. No conservative is diminished by the actions of radical wingnuts. It's a fucking radical wingnut! But pretending that there is no problem, that the rhetoric isn't out there, that it isn't bad, and that we don't have a problem, is just plain dumb.

254 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:18:52pm

re: #245 Gus 802

And Arizona has the death penalty. I think we have the perfect candidate here.

The guy is crazy--probably should be locked away for the rest of his life rather than killed. Killing loons doesn't stop them from being loons.

255 simoom  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:19:06pm

re: #231 Justaminute

At the press conference the sheriff stated there is a possibility he did not act alone and they have a pic of the possible accomplice.

I just tuned into the msnbc feed he went into an aside about "anti-goverment" "bigots" with "rhetoric" about "tearing down the government" influencing unbalanced individuals. Now he's bemoaning the extremist political discourse in general. I wonder what the suspect has been saying to them...

256 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:19:17pm

re: #248 Kid A

There are tons of Saints fans here (The Woodlands, TX.), and I'll be listening to their moaning here in about thirty minutes.

Oh, heck, I've got friends in the Woodlands, TX.
and yes, Saints fans

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:19:47pm

re: #225 researchok

Shocking news:

You don't say! I figured most people who assassinated politicians were quite balanced.

//

258 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:03pm

re: #252 elBarto

If you really need to blame some one one I nominate Hannity, Olberman Beck Maddow et al. These are the blow hards that feed the nuts. They have hours of time to fill and so they spout the most asinine bull shit.

What has Maddow done to feed the nuts?

I've never seen her as anything but respectable, why do you find her a blow hard?

259 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:06pm

re: #252 elBarto

If you really need to blame some one one I nominate Hannity, Olberman Beck Maddow et al. These are the blow hards that feed the nuts. They have hours of time to fill and so they spout the most asinine bull shit.

Maddow doesn't belong at all in that list. Why on earth do you think she does?

260 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:15pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. However, if it turns out that the shooter was motivated by violent rhetoric from left-wing figures, I will hold THEM accountable for what they said.

See, this is the thing. If the Baader-Meinhof Gang, or the Weathermen, or WTF, come back from the crypt and start spewing hate and blowing shit up, I will not be backing them, because, you see, I am an American liberal, and they are freakazoid assholes, and will be even if I find one or two basic ideas we agree on. If their rhetoric starts to be parroted by Democrats in Washington, I will not vote for those people, and will actively campaign for non-crazy Democrats.

And I certainly won't be caught dead on LGF pretending that the Weathermen are 'really a mix' of extreme right-wing and left-wing ideas, I will just be condemning their asses as radical terrorists. I don't like radical terrorists.

This isn't so hard. No conservative is diminished by the actions of radical wingnuts. It's a fucking radical wingnut! But pretending that there is no problem, that the rhetoric isn't out there, that it isn't bad, and that we don't have a problem, is just plain dumb.

Nicely done, but probably wasted.

261 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:20pm

re: #245 Gus 802

And Arizona has the death penalty. I think we have the perfect candidate here.

indeed, we'll see....
but I'm getting more enthused about life as the years go by....iso 23/7....now that is some serious payback too...think about it

262 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:20pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

Yeah, NO is about 350 miles (5.5 hours) from here, and a lot of them moved here after Katrina.

263 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:20pm

re: #204 moderatelyradicalliberal

I was talking about this with my father on the phone. He was in complete shock. He said "baby, they are shooting white women."

If this isn't a wake up call about what has been encouraged and unleashed on the right, I don't know what is. It's too hot out there and responsible people, who people on the right listen to and respect need to come out forcefully against all of this nonsense. They need to stop talking about their president, their fellow colleagues and entire groups of people like enemies of the state. They need to stop sounding like radio shock jocks and take some responsibility for what they don't speak out against. Too many people don't know that they are playing a political game and see their veiled comments and silence as agreement. Crazy people don't need that kind of encouragement.

If they are shooting white women, they will shoot anybody.

Dads are such special people :) You have a wise one.

264 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:21pm

re: #239 talon_262

It'll blow you away...

/given the day's events, an unfortunate choice of words, but I'm trying to keep it light

265 simoom  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:27pm

re: #255 simoom

I wonder what the suspect has been saying to them...

n/m, he just said he's made no statements and invoked his right to council.

266 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:30pm

re: #254 BryanS

The guy is crazy--probably should be locked away for the rest of his life rather than killed. Killing loons doesn't stop them from being loons.

Actually it does.

267 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:49pm

re: #254 BryanS

The guy is crazy--probably should be locked away for the rest of his life rather than killed. Killing loons doesn't stop them from being loons.

Maybe. But part of me thinks that he should be executed before he finds redemption in his own mind. This we he'll know what it's like to die with what he has done fresh in his mind.

268 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:51pm

re: #264 talon_262

Whoops...don't know what happened there.

269 Steve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:20:52pm

re: #248 Kid A

There are tons of Saints fans here (The Woodlands, TX.), and I'll be listening to their moaning here in about thirty minutes.

Only 30 minutes?

270 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:03pm

re: #245 Gus 802

Agreed. Just like MC Veigh.

271 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:18pm

re: #111 WindUpBird

I actually did not particiapte in any blog besides (occasionally) my own in 2008, I probably would have not lasted long on the 2008 LGf :D

I'm reading back near election day in '08 and every thread is about how Obama was a secret Hamas loving terrorist sympathizer. Kind of entertaining actually.

272 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:25pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

You don't say! I figured most people who assassinated politicians were quite balanced.

//

I suspect he's been eating the whole box of Fruit Loops without sharing for a long time.

273 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:32pm

re: #245 Gus 802

And Arizona has the death penalty. I think we have the perfect candidate here.

It's a federal case.

274 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:45pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. However, if it turns out that the shooter was motivated by violent rhetoric from left-wing figures, I will hold THEM accountable for what they said.

See, this is the thing. If the Baader-Meinhof Gang, or the Weathermen, or WTF, come back from the crypt and start spewing hate and blowing shit up, I will not be backing them, because, you see, I am an American liberal, and they are freakazoid assholes, and will be even if I find one or two basic ideas we agree on. If their rhetoric starts to be parroted by Democrats in Washington, I will not vote for those people, and will actively campaign for non-crazy Democrats.

And I certainly won't be caught dead on LGF pretending that the Weathermen are 'really a mix' of extreme right-wing and left-wing ideas, I will just be condemning their asses as radical terrorists. I don't like radical terrorists.

This isn't so hard. No conservative is diminished by the actions of radical wingnuts. It's a fucking radical wingnut! But pretending that there is no problem, that the rhetoric isn't out there, that it isn't bad, and that we don't have a problem, is just plain dumb.

That was brilliant, SFZ. Thanks.

275 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:45pm

re: #210 Kid A

That was one hell of a game. Though I still can't get over a 7-9 team being in the playoffs. But, as the saying goes, "That's why they play the games."

The Onion: New Orleans Saints Lose First-Round Bye

Heh.

276 bluecheese  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:21:47pm

perhaps a bit OT, or perhaps not, i came across this (It's on page 4) earlier today:

Another Ohio Democrat, Steve Driehaus, clashed repeatedly with Boehner before losing his seat in the midterm elections. After Boehner suggested that by voting for Obamacare, Driehaus "may be a dead man" and "can't go home to the west side of Cincinnati" because "the Catholics will run him out of town," Driehaus began receiving death threats, and a right-wing website published directions to his house. Driehaus says he approached Boehner on the floor and confronted him.

"I didn't think it was funny at all," Driehaus says. "I've got three little kids and a wife. I said to him, 'John, this is bullshit, and way out of bounds. For you to say something like that is wildly irresponsible.'"

Driehaus is quick to point out that he doesn't think Boehner meant to urge anyone to violence. "But it's not about what he intended — it's about how the least rational person in my district takes it. We run into some crazy people in this line of work."

Driehaus says Boehner was "taken aback" when confronted on the floor, but never actually said he was sorry: "He said something along the lines of, 'You know that's not what I meant.' But he didn't apologize."

It really saddens me to see pols pandering to the types of folks that are receptive to this kind of thing.

277 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:22:10pm

re: #254 BryanS

The guy is crazy--probably should be locked away for the rest of his life rather than killed. Killing loons doesn't stop them from being loons.

it's not supposed to...it's to get them off the books, and it's effective in that regard

278 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:22:15pm

re: #269 Steve

Ha! I'm about to go hang out with some friends for the Jets/Colts game, and the Saints fans will still be there getting wasted. They're, shall we say, entertaining?

279 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:22:40pm

re: #258 jamesfirecat

What has Maddow done to feed the nuts?

I've never seen her as anything but respectable, why do you find her a blow hard?

Yeah...Maddow certainly is lefty, but a respectable lefty. Olberman can stay on the list for the desired "balance" :)

280 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:22:44pm

re: #273 recusancy

It's a federal case.

That'll work too.

281 justaminute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:22:47pm

re: #251 reine.de.tout

I just saw that on twitter, but the story linked to doesn't mention anything.
argh.

I find it interesting there could be another one out there that is supporting him and sharing his ideology.

282 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:22:49pm

re: #224 Kid A

That would be the late, great Robin Harris. He played the funny daddy in the movie House Party. That where that line came from.

283 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:23:07pm

re: #275 Lidane

HA HA HA! I love The Onion! Thanks for the link! You live in Austin? I'm south in The Woodlands.

284 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:23:18pm

re: #252 elBarto

If you really need to blame some one one I nominate Hannity, Olberman Beck Maddow et al. These are the blow hards that feed the nuts. They have hours of time to fill and so they spout the most asinine bull shit.

If you had bothered to listen to Rachel Maddow at all you would know that she isn't bat guano crazy and that she backs her statements up with facts.

285 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:23:20pm

re: #267 Gus 802

Maybe. But part of me thinks that he should be executed before he finds redemption in his own mind. This we he'll know what it's like to die with what he has done fresh in his mind.

re: #270 Rightwingconspirator

Agreed. Just like MC Veigh.

The people are a freaking scientific resource. When they're killed they take their data with them. Study them to death.

286 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:23:44pm

re: #236 albusteve

most exciting maybe...he was the greatest negative yards back

Hey, I liked his movies...The Dirty Dozen, killed a white officer. Now on a mission with Lee Marvin.

And he could really, really run the rock.

287 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:23:47pm

re: #266 b_sharp

Actually it does.

Heh...I suppose, but only after the fact. The death penalty doesn't do much to prevent the crazies from being crazy in the first place.

288 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:24:06pm

re: #254 BryanS

The guy is crazy--probably should be locked away for the rest of his life rather than killed. Killing loons doesn't stop them from being loons.

Actually, that's one of the reasons I'm against the death penalty. I don't think we should be killing the mentally ill. But I also don't think everyone who commits a heinous crime is technically mentally ill. Not if they know what they're doing is wrong and do it anyway.

289 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:24:06pm

re: #278 Kid A

Ha! I'm about to go hang out with some friends for the Jets/Colts game, and the Saints fans will still be there getting wasted. They're, shall we say, entertaining?

not their turn again...so be it

290 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:24:13pm

re: #283 Kid A

HA HA HA! I love The Onion! Thanks for the link! You live in Austin? I'm south in The Woodlands.

Are you talking about "The Woodland" north of Houston.

291 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:24:34pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. However, if it turns out that the shooter was motivated by violent rhetoric from left-wing figures, I will hold THEM accountable for what they said.

See, this is the thing. If the Baader-Meinhof Gang, or the Weathermen, or WTF, come back from the crypt and start spewing hate and blowing shit up, I will not be backing them, because, you see, I am an American liberal, and they are freakazoid assholes, and will be even if I find one or two basic ideas we agree on. If their rhetoric starts to be parroted by Democrats in Washington, I will not vote for those people, and will actively campaign for non-crazy Democrats.

And I certainly won't be caught dead on LGF pretending that the Weathermen are 'really a mix' of extreme right-wing and left-wing ideas, I will just be condemning their asses as radical terrorists. I don't like radical terrorists.

This isn't so hard. No conservative is diminished by the actions of radical wingnuts. It's a fucking radical wingnut! But pretending that there is no problem, that the rhetoric isn't out there, that it isn't bad, and that we don't have a problem, is just plain dumb.

I'd move to California to vote for you.

Even if you are a lefty.

292 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:24:54pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

A-fucking-men!

293 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:24:55pm

Ok I will retract Maddow from the list. I just finder her irritating beyond all belief.

294 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:25:03pm

re: #279 BryanS

Yeah...Maddow certainly is lefty, but a respectable lefty. Olberman can stay on the list for the desired "balance" :)

Oberman is a blowhard who every now and again goes too far... but on the other hand...

In that clip he reaches a level of sincerity an openness that Glenn Beck couldn't equal if he cried enough tears to drown Florida...

295 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:25:35pm

re: #284 eclectic infidel

If you had bothered to listen to Rachel Maddow at all you would know that she isn't bat guano crazy and that she backs her statements up with facts.

She's gay and a liberal. AND one of those high falutin' Ph.D. types with her book learnin' and stuff. How could Rachel Maddow ever understand Real America?

/wingnut

296 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:25:44pm

re: #267 Gus 802

Maybe. But part of me thinks that he should be executed before he finds redemption in his own mind. This we he'll know what it's like to die with what he has done fresh in his mind.

I have a hard time embracing the death penalty. I'm fairly sure this guy was not deterred by any threat of being put to death for his crimes. And that guy is really messed up. He needs to forevermore be kept away from society, but I think that is enough.

297 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:25:45pm

re: #249 researchok

Fire up Ole Sparky...?

Thank DOG that abomination is gone. Horror time that was in Florida.

298 jeffm70  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:25:52pm

re: #252 elBarto

yeah, um, I don't think Maddow or Olbermann's rhetoric match up to anything Glenn Beck says.

299 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:26:11pm

re: #263 marjoriemoon

Thanks. Pops is awesome.

300 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:26:13pm

re: #297 Stanley Sea

Thank DOG that abomination is gone. Horror time that was in Florida.

Lots of misfires, I heard.

301 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:26:17pm

re: #293 elBarto

Ok I will retract Maddow from the list. I just finder her irritating beyond all belief.

Why?

302 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:26:49pm

re: #298 jeffm70

yeah, um, I don't think Maddow or Olbermann's rhetoric match up to anything Glenn Beck says.

Not even close.

303 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:27:03pm

re: #277 albusteve

it's not supposed to...it's to get them off the books, and it's effective in that regard

Locking him away forever does the same thing.

304 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:27:15pm

re: #301 jamesfirecat

Why?

Probably because she's nominally a liberal...

305 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:27:16pm

re: #296 BryanS

I have a hard time embracing the death penalty. I'm fairly sure this guy was not deterred by any threat of being put to death for his crimes. And that guy is really messed up. He needs to forevermore be kept away from society, but I think that is enough.

Kill him, just sayin....

306 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:27:22pm

Olbermann can be an irritating douche and utterly full of himself, but at the same time, he's not afraid to push back against the Bad Crazy.

I'll still take Maddow over Olbermann any day, but Keith has his moments.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:27:37pm

Judson Phillips behaves like an asshole. "Congressman Giffords was a liberal, but that does not matter now." Jesus H.

Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords was shot and killed along with several others in Arizona. Giffords was conducting a "Congress on your corner" event when the shooting occurred. Six others were killed as well.

The shooter has been taken into custody and let's hope he gets the death penalty he richly deserves..

Congressman Giffords was a liberal, but that does not matter now. No one should be the victim of violence because of their political beliefs and certainly a member of Congress should not be shot and killed on a street corner..


Take a moment to say a prayer for her and her family, as well as the others who were so tragically murdered this afternoon. .

At a time like this, it is terrible that we do have to think about politics, but no matter what the shooter's motivations where, the left is going to blame this on the Tea Party Movement. Already on liberal websites, the far left is trying to accuse the Tea Party of being involved. .

While we need to take a moment to extend our sympathies to the families of those who died, we cannot allow the hard left to do what it tried to do in 1995 after the Oklahoma City bombing..

Within the entire political spectrum, there are extremists, both on the left and the right. Violence of this nature should be decried by everyone and not used for political gain..

UPDATE: At the time this was written, all the major news outlets were reporting Congressman Giffords had died. As of 3:10 CST, Doctors are now saying they are optimistic she will recover. As tragic as this situation is, I think we can all be happy that the Congressman survived this terrorist attack..

308 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:27:55pm

re: #252 elBarto

If you really need to blame some one one I nominate Hannity, Olberman Beck Maddow et al. These are the blow hards that feed the nuts. They have hours of time to fill and so they spout the most asinine bull shit.

Now that you have laid down some parameters, give me some statements from Olberman or any other left or far left talking heads that would feed the nuts... and then give me the names of a few nuts that may have been influenced by these sort of statements and in turned killed anyone.

I'll wait.

309 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:02pm

re: #302 eclectic infidel

Not even close.

Glenn Beck is (with apologies to Hunter S. Thompson a real journalist) a high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production ... too weird to live, and too rare to die.

310 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:06pm

re: #306 Lidane

Olbermann can be an irritating douche and utterly full of himself, but at the same time, he's not afraid to push back against the Bad Crazy.

I'll still take Maddow over Olbermann any day, but Keith has his moments.

I would take Woody Woodpecker over Olbermann

311 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:16pm

re: #298 jeffm70

Maddow is a class act. One I do not like, but Olbermann and Beck are equally repellent to me for watching purposes. But then I do have a bias. Against pundits. Left and right.

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:25pm

re: #291 researchok

I'd move to California to vote for you.

Even if you are a lefty.

That's very kind, but I'm not running for anything.

;)

313 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:40pm
Officials have confirmed that Gabe Zimmerman is the staffer from Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ office who was shot and killed today at a political event.

Zimmerman, 30, was director of community outreach for the congresswoman.

Two other staffers were wounded in the shooting. The two — Pam Simon and Ron Barber — remained hospitalized tonight, said C.J. Karamargin, a Giffords spokesman. He said their prognosis is good.

RIP.

314 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:42pm

While Loughner may have tried to join the Army, it appears that he never was admitted according to Stars and Stripes.

Also, Stars and Stripes has the following:

Giffords has drawn the ire of the right in the last year, especially from politicians like Sarah Palin over her support of the health care bill. It's still not clear if the gunman had the health care debate in mind or was focused on his own unique set of political beliefs as witnessed in the Internet videos.

Law enforcement officials said members of Congress reported 42 cases of threats or violence in the first three months of 2010, nearly three times the 15 cases reported during the same period a year earlier. Nearly all dealt with the health care bill, and Giffords was among the targets.

Giffords' Tucson office was vandalized a few hours after the House voted to approve the health care law in March, with someone either kicking or shooting out a glass door and window. In an interview after the vandalism, Giffords referred to the animosity against her by conservatives. Palin listed Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections because of the lawmakers' support for the health care law.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.

In the hours after the shooting, Palin issued a statement in which she expressed her "sincere condolences" to the family of Giffords and the other victims.

The shooting occurred at a shopping center called La Toscana Village as Giffords met with voters outside a Safeway grocery store.

Alex Villec, 19, a volunteer for the event, told the Arizona Daily Star that the gunman asked to speak to Giffords, but Villec told him to go to the back of the line. The gunman did that, and minutes later he walked toward her.

"He was intent," Villec said. "He was intent when he came back - a pretty stone-cold glance and glare."

"I didn't see his gun, but it was clear who he was going for," he added. "He was going for the congresswoman."

Villec said the shooter walked past tables and toward Giffords, then raised his hand. Villec said he heard gunshots before ducking behind a pillar.

"It was bedlam," he said. "People were getting down on the ground. They were screaming. I just did what I could to keep myself protected."

Villec said he did not see two men tackle the gunman but afterward spoke with one of the men who was next in line to greet Giffords.

Law enforcement officials and reporters from around the country quickly descended on Tucson, the second biggest city in the state and home to the University of Arizona. The scene has been converted into a command post with about a dozen or so emergency vehicles and agents in FBI jackets milling about the location.

I'd be interested to see who were the targets of those incidents and the disposition as to whether anyone was arrested.

315 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:28:49pm

re: #296 BryanS

I have a hard time embracing the death penalty. I'm fairly sure this guy was not deterred by any threat of being put to death for his crimes. And that guy is really messed up. He needs to forevermore be kept away from society, but I think that is enough.

Was just a thought and I can go either way so 200 years would do. I hope that they at least throw him in isolation with no blanket or pillow.

316 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:29:14pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

Judson Phillips behaves like an asshole. "Congressman Giffords was a liberal, but that does not matter now." Jesus H.

Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords was shot and killed along with several others in Arizona. Giffords was conducting a "Congress on your corner" event when the shooting occurred. Six others were killed as well.

The shooter has been taken into custody and let's hope he gets the death penalty he richly deserves..

Congressman Giffords was a liberal, but that does not matter now. No one should be the victim of violence because of their political beliefs and certainly a member of Congress should not be shot and killed on a street corner..

Take a moment to say a prayer for her and her family, as well as the others who were so tragically murdered this afternoon. .

At a time like this, it is terrible that we do have to think about politics, but no matter what the shooter's motivations where, the left is going to blame this on the Tea Party Movement. Already on liberal websites, the far left is trying to accuse the Tea Party of being involved. .

While we need to take a moment to extend our sympathies to the families of those who died, we cannot allow the hard left to do what it tried to do in 1995 after the Oklahoma City bombing..

Within the entire political spectrum, there are extremists, both on the left and the right. Violence of this nature should be decried by everyone and not used for political gain..

UPDATE: At the time this was written, all the major news outlets were reporting Congressman Giffords had died. As of 3:10 CST, Doctors are now saying they are optimistic she will recover. As tragic as this situation is, I think we can all be happy that the Congressman survived this terrorist attack..

*Twilight Zone* theme playing in a really long loop.

317 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:29:31pm

re: #303 BryanS

Locking him away forever does the same thing.

well solitary is torture now for a growing number of people...it's the new jailhouse pink

318 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:09pm

re: #301 jamesfirecat

I do not agree with her about 99.9 % of the time. I also just finder her manner off putting to me.

319 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:10pm

re: #306 Lidane

Olbermann can be an irritating douche and utterly full of himself, but at the same time, he's not afraid to push back against the Bad Crazy.

I'll still take Maddow over Olbermann any day, but Keith has his moments.

like swapping baseball cards eh?

320 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:11pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

The Woodlands, yes. 30 miles north.

321 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:11pm

re: #315 Gus 802

Was just a thought and I can go either way so 200 years would do. I hope that they at least throw him in isolation with no blanket or pillow.

I can go one way only... if this guy is guilty.. I hope they off him as soon as legally possible.

322 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:17pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

Judson Phillips behaves like is an asshole. "Congressman Giffords was a liberal, but that does not matter now."
FTFY.

323 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:23pm

re: #313 wrenchwench

RIP.

This is him on the left:

Image: news05.jpg

324 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:55pm

re: #300 researchok

Lots of misfires, I heard.

horrors. we are better than that shit.

325 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:30:58pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

I can go one way only... if this guy is guilty.. I hope they off him as soon as legally possible.

Sunrise.

326 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:31:22pm

re: #318 elBarto

I do not agree with her about 99.9 % of the time. I also just finder her manner off putting to me.

What about her manner is so off putting if you don't mind me asking?

Sorry I just find it interesting to plumb the depths of the conservative mind because it helps me become less of a sheltered 22 living in parents house after graduating from liberal arts college.... liberal.

327 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:31:42pm

re: #320 Kid A

The Woodlands, yes. 30 miles north.

Sorry... Houston and that whole area is the arm-pit of the southwest. I lived in both Houston and Spring. Never in a million years again.

328 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:32:08pm

With any luck, the congresswoman will recover. Then I look forward to her meeting with the Semi-Governor at some future book signing in AZ.

329 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:32:15pm

re: #296 BryanS

I have a hard time embracing the death penalty. I'm fairly sure this guy was not deterred by any threat of being put to death for his crimes. And that guy is really messed up. He needs to forevermore be kept away from society, but I think that is enough.

I'm not entirely sold on the infallibility of the jury system.

330 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:32:22pm

re: #303 BryanS

Locking him away forever does the same thing.

While it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the Tucson shooter fucking rot in prison for the rest of his life, I certainly wouldn't be opposed for the death penalty in the case. Terroristic scumbag, just like McVeigh and the 9/11 crew.

331 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:32:33pm
antderosa Anthony De Rosa rt by maddow
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said the other suspect they are pursuing is "probably in his 50s"
332 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:33:22pm

re: #324 Stanley Sea

horrors. we are better than that shit.

I actually against the death penalty (for the most part. After 9/11, there are cases I would support it)

If we are out brother's keepers (even in a non religious sense) that doesn't apply only when it is easy.

333 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:34:04pm

re: #319 albusteve

I like baseball enough to go to the occasional game, but no. Cards have nothing to do with it.

Keith has had some great moments in the past. They're balanced out by him being an insufferable, self-righteous douche most of the time, but he's still worth watching on occasion. I still think Rachel Maddow runs circles around him and every other talking head on TV, though. She's awesome.

334 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:34:25pm

re: #329 Amory Blaine

I'm not entirely sold on the infallibility of the jury system.

Still it beats the hell out of most other possible jury systems OBJECTION doesn't it?

335 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:34:26pm

I don't know if anyone else has posted this.

Chilling.

336 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:34:35pm

re: #305 The Shadow Do

Kill him, just sayin...

Eye for an eye isn't enough of a reason for me. If I lost a loved one I would certainly pine for vengeance. But the death penalty doesn't do anything other than satiate that desire--it advances no other goals of a justice system. It doesn't deter crime, and it is costly because everyone agrees safeguards, appeals, etc need to be preserved to prevent killing an innocent person.

And I cannot imagine how many innocent people have been killed--just read up on how many death row cases were commuted or dismissed after DNA evidence came into practice. We can never guarantee that we only kill the guilty in such a process. At least life in prison gives us the option of letting the person go if we later find out were wrong.

337 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:34:39pm

re: #325 Gus 802

Sunrise.

I like the nuance of your POV.
//

Actually, on the death penalty we disagree.

338 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:34:56pm

Every time Olberman names some one the WORST Person in the World. To a deranged person they might take this as a green light to do something to this person. After all if they are the worst person in the world, they deserve whatever bad happens to them right? To rational people this seems laughable but to the off balanced it makes sense.

339 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:35:07pm

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

It's not THAT bad. Once you get past the humidity, the mega-churches on every street corner, the snobbery, the thick red-stateness, it's all good. Hell, we even have - gasp! wait for it! - a GAY BAR IN THE WOODLANDS! And they haven't been run out of town yet!

///

340 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:35:32pm

re: #318 elBarto

Hey... you working on the answer to my comment...

Now that you have laid down some parameters, give me some statements from Olberman or any other left or far left talking heads that would feed the nuts... and then give me the names of a few nuts that may have been influenced by these sort of statements and in turned killed anyone.

Still waiting.

341 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:36:35pm

re: #338 elBarto

Every time Olberman names some one the WORST Person in the World. To a deranged person they might take this as a green light to do something to this person. After all if they are the worst person in the world, they deserve whatever bad happens to them right? To rational people this seems laughable but to the off balanced it makes sense.

There is a hell of a lot longer leap from "Worst person in the world" to "kill them" than there is from "now is not the time to retreat, now is the time to reload" to the same destination....

342 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:36:42pm

re: #334 jamesfirecat

Still it beats the hell out of most other possible jury systems OBJECTION doesn't it?

I only mean that jurys are wrong sometimes, sometimes based on prejudice. And the death penalty is permanent. Of course I believe it is the best system, but is it perfect enough to commit people to death? Not in my eyes.

343 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:36:51pm

re: #336 BryanS

Eye for an eye isn't enough of a reason for me. If I lost a loved one I would certainly pine for vengeance. But the death penalty doesn't do anything other than satiate that desire--it advances no other goals of a justice system. It doesn't deter crime, and it is costly because everyone agrees safeguards, appeals, etc need to be preserved to prevent killing an innocent person.

And I cannot imagine how many innocent people have been killed--just read up on how many death row cases were commuted or dismissed after DNA evidence came into practice. We can never guarantee that we only kill the guilty in such a process. At least life in prison gives us the option of letting the person go if we later find out were wrong.

In this case, I don't think "innocence" come into play here, with multiple eyewitness and such...the dude is guilty as sin.

344 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:37:07pm

re: #339 Kid A

It's not THAT bad. Once you get past the humidity, the mega-churches on every street corner, the snobbery, the thick red-stateness, it's all good. Hell, we even have - gasp! wait for it! - a GAY BAR IN THE WOODLANDS! And they haven't been run out of town yet!

///

I'll just leave my opinion with what I said above. You don't want me to go into detail. I don't have anything nice to say about Houston or The Woodlands, and I would just insult you more than I normally do to around here.

345 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:37:17pm

re: #337 researchok

I like the nuance of your POV.
//

Actually, on the death penalty we disagree.

That's cool. I won't be upset if he doesn't get the death penalty. Many would say that it's sometimes the "easy way out." He's 22 which means he'll probably spend the next 50 years and more thinking about it.

346 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:37:20pm

re: #315 Gus 802

Was just a thought and I can go either way so 200 years would do. I hope that they at least throw him in isolation with no blanket or pillow.

I can live with that :)

347 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:37:27pm

re: #332 researchok

I actually against the death penalty (for the most part. After 9/11, there are cases I would support it)

If we are out brother's keepers (even in a non religious sense) that doesn't apply only when it is easy.

I'm nobody's keeper...the DP works for me, less DNA, circumstantial evidence etc...

348 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:37:30pm

re: #330 talon_262

While it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the Tucson shooter fucking rot in prison for the rest of his life, I certainly wouldn't be opposed for the death penalty in the case. Terroristic scumbag, just like McVeigh and the 9/11 crew.

If he does rot for life, I'd also want the following imposed immediately:

1. No parole hearing - ever.
2. No access to TV, reading material, internet, etc.
3. Solitary confinement. Permanently.
4. No access to anything that he could use to end his life while incarcerated.
5. No visitors.

That's my idea of Hell for this cretin.

349 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:38:09pm

re: #336 BryanS

Eye for an eye isn't enough of a reason for me. If I lost a loved one I would certainly pine for vengeance. But the death penalty doesn't do anything other than satiate that desire--it advances no other goals of a justice system. It doesn't deter crime, and it is costly because everyone agrees safeguards, appeals, etc need to be preserved to prevent killing an innocent person.

And I cannot imagine how many innocent people have been killed--just read up on how many death row cases were commuted or dismissed after DNA evidence came into practice. We can never guarantee that we only kill the guilty in such a process. At least life in prison gives us the option of letting the person go if we later find out were wrong.

Vengeance ain't part of it. Justice is. What is the penalty, what do you lose, for denying anothers right to live?

DNA is moot at this point in history.

350 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:38:13pm

Gabe Zimmerman

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

351 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:38:17pm

re: #342 Amory Blaine

I only mean that jurys are wrong sometimes, sometimes based on prejudice. And the death penalty is permanent. Of course I believe it is the best system, but is it perfect enough to commit people to death? Not in my eyes.

I feel more or less the exact same way... it's just that having recently beaten the first game I feel helpless desire to make Phoenix Wright references.

352 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:38:34pm

A 2nd shooter in his 50's may be involved too? Wow! I have to give Shep Smith of Fox News credit (just switched over there for the first time in a very long time!): he's trying to get his facts straight and he does not want to say anything wrong that could be construed wrongly! So great there's at least one person over there who doesn't want chaos from words to ensue after his or her broadcast.

353 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:38:56pm

re: #339 Kid A

It's not THAT bad. Once you get past the humidity, the mega-churches on every street corner, the snobbery, the thick red-stateness, it's all good. Hell, we even have - gasp! wait for it! - a GAY BAR IN THE WOODLANDS! And they haven't been run out of town yet!

///

My condolences for living in Houston. I grew up there. Southeast side, near Almeda Mall. My folks moved there when I was 8 and I left when I was 25. Never again. Not without a massive salary incentive to move back.

I'm going back in October for my 20th high school reunion, but that's pretty much it, I think. If my friends from high school want to see me in person after that, they can come here to Austin. ;)

354 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:39:14pm

re: #352 KayInMaine

A 2nd shooter in his 50's may be involved too? Wow! I have to give Shep Smith of Fox News credit (just switched over there for the first time in a very long time!): he's trying to get his facts straight and he does not want to say anything wrong that could be construed wrongly! So great there's at least one person over there who doesn't want chaos from words to ensue after his or her broadcast.

Except for his reporting after Katrina - you may be correct.

355 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:39:17pm

re: #338 elBarto

Every time Olberman names some one the WORST Person in the World. To a deranged person they might take this as a green light to do something to this person. After all if they are the worst person in the world, they deserve whatever bad happens to them right? To rational people this seems laughable but to the off balanced it makes sense.

I think you're grasping at straws. That's just my opinion.

356 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:39:20pm

re: #333 Lidane

I like baseball enough to go to the occasional game, but no. Cards have nothing to do with it.

Keith has had some great moments in the past. They're balanced out by him being an insufferable, self-righteous douche most of the time, but he's still worth watching on occasion. I still think Rachel Maddow runs circles around him and every other talking head on TV, though. She's awesome.

you speak of them like neighbors....they mean nothing to me, I could care less what they have to say...they are celebrities representing the worst of America

357 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:39:26pm

re: #347 albusteve

I'm nobody's keeper...the DP works for me, less DNA, circumstantial evidence etc...

I have learned from extensive study of films I have seen on the internet, that there is a LOT of DNA involved in a DP. Didn't think you swung that way Steve. /

358 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:39:27pm

re: #347 albusteve

I'm nobody's keeper...the DP works for me, less DNA, circumstantial evidence etc...

I used to be pro DP but there are more and more cases where the convictions are problematic.

359 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:39:28pm

jamesfirecat,
It is hard to say exactly what it is. I think that if she were conservative she would still annoy me. It is just one of those things, I would not call myself conservative though so I am not sure I can help you there.

360 theheat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:40:28pm

The whole thing is tragic. What's more tragic are the inciters refusing to take any responsibility for the monster they've carefully cultivated, and the fact that today's violence is being celebrated in the minds of wingnuts across the country.

The only regret any wingnut politicians may have, is they "got some on 'em" and it might affect their political aspirations to look sympathetic, or even partially responsible, to the cause. But to others, they're heroes for leading a movement of pissed off, anti-government, gun-toting freaks.

And this is precisely what they've been heading for.

361 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:40:45pm

re: #345 Gus 802

That's cool. I won't be upset if he doesn't get the death penalty. Many would say that it's sometimes the "easy way out." He's 22 which means he'll probably spend the next 50 years and more thinking about it.

Oh, he won't be getting out.

And he'll never be able to take a leisurely shower.

362 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:41:06pm

re: #360 theheat

The whole thing is tragic. What's more tragic are the inciters refusing to take any responsibility for the monster they've carefully cultivated, and the fact that today's violence is being celebrated in the minds of wingnuts across the country.

Exactly.

363 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:41:31pm

re: #358 researchok

I used to be pro DP but there are more and more cases where the convictions are problematic.

For me it was simpler.
I asked myself this question:
If I were to serve on a jury in a death penalty case, could I vote for the death penalty, essentially vote to kill someone?

And my self-answer was "no".

364 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:41:47pm

re: #343 talon_262

In this case, I don't think "innocence" come into play here, with multiple eyewitness and such...the dude is guilty as sin.

True--there is little doubt about the guy being the one who killed people today. But the guy's sanity I think is up for debate.

365 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:41:58pm

re: #351 jamesfirecat

I feel more or less the exact same way... it's just that having recently beaten the first game I feel helpless desire to make Phoenix Wright references.

Wow cool looking games. I'm usually a FPS guy.

366 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:43:00pm

re: #349 The Shadow Do

Vengeance ain't part of it. Justice is. What is the penalty, what do you lose, for denying anothers right to live?

DNA is moot at this point in history.

I agree about justice. If there is an argument for the death penalty, this is it. In front of many witnesses gunning down 17 adults, some to their death, plus a 9 year old child. I can't begin to imagine what the family is going through now.

But DNA is not a moot point. It saved many innocent lives. And another reason I'm generally not in favor of the death penalty.

367 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:43:13pm

Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty, imo, and if you find out you were wrong, you can let them out at any time before they die.

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized society, imo.

368 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:43:16pm

Off topic, but my parents have said that as a result of this, they will be de-registering as Republicans early next week. They have had it with the rhetoric.

369 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:43:19pm

re: #349 The Shadow Do

Vengeance ain't part of it. Justice is. What is the penalty, what do you lose, for denying anothers right to live?

DNA is moot at this point in history.

And if the guy's mind is swiss cheese, is killing him justice?

370 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:43:20pm

re: #351 jamesfirecat

I feel more or less the exact same way... it's just that having recently beaten the first game I feel helpless desire to make Phoenix Wright references.

I'm a shameless Phoenix Wright fangirl. My avatar is proof of that.

They're a fun little series of games. I like them all.

371 justaminute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:43:57pm

I think life in solitary confinement is worse than death. I think Terry Nichols is wishing now he had the same sentence that McVeigh had.

It's been reported on MSNBC that she may have had one of the suspicious packages sent to her that was reported in the last couple of days. Strange, I hadn't heard that before.

372 elBarto  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:44:11pm

I do not expect to change any minds here. I do not care for the level of ppolitical discourse in the country today. I would not use the language that palin uses, but I do not think it is helpful to try and blame her for this wack jobs actions. Maybe this will be a wake up call for people to be more civil.

373 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:44:12pm

re: #365 Amory Blaine

Wow cool looking games. I'm usually a FPS guy.

When you get right down to it, they're just adventure games, use Item X from your inventory with Object Y on the screen to make event Z happen.

However this time around, it's more like Use Item X from the court record with Witness Testimony fragment Y in order to prove that they're not telling the truth weather they realize it or not.

That, and press them on everyone on every statement since it never hurts.

374 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:44:16pm

re: #362 Lidane

and the fact that today's violence is being celebrated in the minds of wingnuts across the country.


Baloney

375 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:44:30pm

re: #357 Fozzie Bear

I have learned from extensive study of films I have seen on the internet, that there is a LOT of DNA involved in a DP. Didn't think you swung that way Steve. /

swing what way?...DNA results is not enough to impose the DP...seems simple enough

376 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:44:45pm

re: #353 Lidane

My condolences for living in Houston. I grew up there. Southeast side, near Almeda Mall. My folks moved there when I was 8 and I left when I was 25. Never again. Not without a massive salary incentive to move back.

I'm going back in October for my 20th high school reunion, but that's pretty much it, I think. If my friends from high school want to see me in person after that, they can come here to Austin. ;)

Amen, sister!

377 recusancy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:45:18pm

re: #369 BryanS

And if the guy's mind is swiss cheese, is killing him justice?

If he's insane he'll be unfit to stand trial.

378 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:45:35pm

re: #350 Gus 802

Gabe Zimmerman

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Puts my "terrible" week into perspective. Gabe was so young...

I'm out until Monday. Y'all don't be too mean to elBarto. He's really a nice guy.

Later, lizards.

379 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:45:37pm

re: #367 Fozzie Bear

Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty, imo, and if you find out you were wrong, you can let them out at any time before they die.

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized society, imo.

I'll make room

380 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:46:31pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

I can go one way only... if this guy is guilty.. I hope they off him as soon as legally possible.

Quite Concur.

381 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:46:36pm

re: #360 theheat

The whole thing is tragic. What's more tragic are the inciters refusing to take any responsibility for the monster they've carefully cultivated, and the fact that today's violence is being celebrated in the minds of wingnuts across the country.

The only regret any wingnut politicians may have, is they "got some on 'em" and it might affect their political aspirations to look sympathetic, or even partially responsible, to the cause. But to others, they're heroes for leading a movement of pissed off, anti-government, gun-toting freaks.

And this is precisely what they've been heading for.

The local sheriff's presser, he stressed that multiple times and closed his statement by again lamenting vitriol and extreme rhetoric leading to these incidents.

382 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:46:53pm

re: #366 marjoriemoon

I agree about justice. If there is an argument for the death penalty, this is it. In front of many witnesses gunning down 17 adults, some to their death, plus a 9 year old child. I can't begin to imagine what the family is going through now.

But DNA is not a moot point. It saved many innocent lives. And another reason I'm generally not in favor of the death penalty.

DNA evidence may help to resolve old cases. It is a given in todays criminal investigation. There is very little liklihood of a bad conviction in these current cases.

383 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:47:22pm

Dammit.
Second time, CNN has tweeted that a second "person of interest" is being sought in this shooting. And for the second time, the story they linked to not only has zero details about this, but doesn't even mention it.
argh.

384 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:47:25pm

re: #367 Fozzie Bear

Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty, imo, and if you find out you were wrong, you can let them out at any time before they die.

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized society, imo.

In this specific case we wouldn't be wrong -- with regards to the guilty party.

385 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:47:46pm

re: #370 Lidane

I'm a shameless Phoenix Wright fangirl. My avatar is proof of that.

They're a fun little series of games. I like them all.

Consider reading this sometime then.

I don't do much Phoenix Wright fanfiction and I only found this by accident, but its pretty damn good all things considered.

Phoenix wakes up one morning and find out that he's now inhabiting an alternate universe's version of himself... one from a reality where there was now DL-6 incident, and so Edgeworth went onto become a defense attorney like his father.... and this reality's version of Phoenix became a slimey Prosecutor for reasons that are not yet fully revealed....

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:47:49pm

re: #368 ProLifeLiberal

Off topic, but my parents have said that as a result of this, they will be de-registering as Republicans early next week. They have had it with the rhetoric.

Their call, of course, but I'd like to see people who don't like the way things are going stand up and fight for their party.

387 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:47:51pm

re: #382 The Shadow Do

DNA evidence may help to resolve old cases. It is a given in todays criminal investigation. There is very little liklihood of a bad conviction in these current cases.

I thought maybe you copped the death penalty...where have you been amigo?

388 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:47:52pm

re: #353 Lidane

What high school? I went to Conroe High.

389 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:48:01pm

re: #369 BryanS

And if the guy's mind is swiss cheese, is killing him justice?

Is that your starting assumption, the swiss cheese defense?

390 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:48:13pm

re: #367 Fozzie Bear

Life in prison is far worse than the death penalty, imo, and if you find out you were wrong, you can let them out at any time before they die.

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized society, imo.

The thing about the death penalty, it takes a really long time to get to it. They're usually entitled to a number of appeals and serve maybe 20-25 years before the event actually takes place. It's more costly than life in prison without parole (which I think is better) because there's a lawyer to pay, which costs the state more money (public defender).

391 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:48:43pm

In this case the death penalty seems wrong.

There is little doubt that he expected to die today.

The very last thing I'd give him is what he wants.

If he lives a long life (with improvements in medical technology)he may get close to the end of the century behind bars.

Sounds like justice to me.

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:49:10pm

re: #383 reine.de.tout

Dammit.
Second time, CNN has tweeted that a second "person of interest" is being sought in this shooting. And for the second time, the story they linked to not only has zero details about this, but doesn't even mention it.
argh.

I don't think the investigators meant for that to get out. They're refusing to give a name or show photos, and they do say they have them.

393 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:49:14pm
394 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:49:14pm

re: #359 elBarto

I guess you're going to balk after making your grand pronouncement and yet your not even capable of answering a question which you set up.

Now that you have laid down some parameters, give me some statements from Olberman or any other left or far left talking heads that would feed the nuts... and then give me the names of a few nuts that may have been influenced by these sort of statements and in turned killed anyone.

Supper time... be back in a while...

395 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:49:38pm

re: #352 KayInMaine

A 2nd shooter in his 50's may be involved too? Wow! I have to give Shep Smith of Fox News credit (just switched over there for the first time in a very long time!): he's trying to get his facts straight and he does not want to say anything wrong that could be construed wrongly! So great there's at least one person over there who doesn't want chaos from words to ensue after his or her broadcast.

Smith is a smart and honest reporter. Fox News has many problems, but he is not one of them.

396 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:49:56pm

re: #377 recusancy

If he's insane he'll be unfit to stand trial.

Not necessarily. If he's "legally insane" that is true. Jeffery Dahmer was legally sane when he stood trial--please try and convince me he was sane.

397 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:50:01pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

Their call, of course, but I'd like to see people who don't like the way things are going stand up and fight for their party.

I honestly don't think the sane Republicans have a chance of taking back their party until the GOP realizes that letting the crazies crash and burn will only lead them to one electoral defeat after another....

398 jaunte  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:50:12pm

re: #383 reine.de.tout

Dammit.
Second time, CNN has tweeted that a second "person of interest" is being sought in this shooting. And for the second time, the story they linked to not only has zero details about this, but doesn't even mention it.
argh.

This is all I can find:

Sheriff Dupnik also confirmed that two individuals at this crime scene tackled the suspect. He said there is reason to believe that the gunman came to the location with another individual. Dupnik told reporters his office has pictures of a "person of interest" in this case.[Link: www.kgun9.com...]
399 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:50:34pm

re: #387 albusteve

I thought maybe you copped the death penalty...where have you been amigo?

recovering, sort of...

400 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:50:45pm

re: #361 researchok

Oh, he won't be getting out.

And he'll never be able to take a leisurely shower.

Well. Come to think of it. We could always provide him with plenty of cotton sheets and put him in a cell with a sturdy pipe at ceiling height.

401 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:51:00pm

re: #393 Amory Blaine

Uncle says niece, 'typical' 9-year-old, among victims

From the article:

Alex Villec, 19, a volunteer for the event, told the Arizona Daily Star that the gunman asked to speak to Giffords, but Villec told him to go to the back of the line. The gunman did that, and minutes later he walked toward her.

"He was intent," Villec said. "He was intent when he came back- a pretty stone-cold glance and glare."

"I didn't see his gun, but it was clear who he was going for," he added. "He was going for the congresswoman."

402 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:51:12pm

re: #391 Kilroy01

In this case the death penalty seems wrong.

There is little doubt that he expected to die today.

The very last thing I'd give him is what he wants.

If he lives a long life (with improvements in medical technology)he may get close to the end of the century behind bars.

Sounds like justice to me.

I disagree. This guy is pond scum, waste him.

403 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:51:32pm

re: #393 Amory Blaine

Uncle says niece, 'typical' 9-year-old, among victims

Pretty little girl. My God, what they must be going through, what all the families must be going through. A neighbor offers to take your kid to wave at the Congresswoman...who the hell thinks that's the beginning of nightmare that won't end?

404 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:51:37pm

re: #396 BryanS

Not necessarily. If he's "legally insane" that is true. Jeffery Dahmer was legally sane when he stood trial--please try and convince me he was sane.

it's a legal term in this context...whatever a judge decides is what the perp is

405 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:51:57pm

re: #381 BryanS

He flat out said that their is too much hatred and bigotry in America and that Arizona has become the center of it.

I'm glad somebody finally said it. The guys was a nut, but this environment has not helped at all.

406 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:52:00pm

re: #395 Dark_Falcon

Smith is a smart and honest reporter. Fox News has many problems, but he is not one of them.

Smith seems like a good guy.

407 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:52:03pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. This guy is pond scum, waste him.

I am against the DP for one simple reason DF, if we want to impose maximum suffering on some piece of pond scum, which is worth... a quick way out, or life in a box?

408 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:52:06pm

re: #389 The Shadow Do

Is that your starting assumption, the swiss cheese defense?

Sure...or the loony tunes defense. Just looking at the guy's youtube site shows evidence of a deranged mind.

409 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:52:15pm

re: #399 The Shadow Do

recovering, sort of...

I hope all's well...onward and upward

410 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:52:50pm

re: #374 The Shadow Do

Baloney

Not really:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

411 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:52:54pm

re: #382 The Shadow Do

There are sometimes issues with DNA evidence - particularly when a particular jurisdiction's crime lab is doing illegal/unethical things, or DNA claims are made that are statistically unsupported. DNA is a tool that vastly improves convictions and keeps innocent people from going to prison and helps secure pardons of those convicted of crimes in years past. But it has been used and abused as well.

412 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:53:01pm

re: #391 Kilroy01

In this case the death penalty seems wrong.

There is little doubt that he expected to die today.

The very last thing I'd give him is what he wants.

If he lives a long life (with improvements in medical technology)he may get close to the end of the century behind bars.

Sounds like justice to me.

No, it doesn't. He killed a bunch of people including a child in cold blood. He needs to die. That is justice, or as close as one can get to justice, my friend.

413 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:53:16pm

re: #375 albusteve

swing what way?...DNA results is not enough to impose the DP...seems simple enough

I wouldn't impose DP on my worst enemy. (It just keeps getting funnier)

414 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:54:13pm

re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist

Pretty little girl. My God, what they must be going through, what all the families must be going through. A neighbor offers to take your kid to wave at the Congresswoman...who the hell thinks that's the beginning of nightmare that won't end?

That's the one of the worst things about scumbags like this: They're so wrapped up in themselves they don't care about the people they hurt.

415 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:54:43pm

Good grief.
In this article:

During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
416 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:54:52pm

re: #413 Fozzie Bear

I wouldn't impose DP on my worst enemy. (It just keeps getting funnier)

that's nice

417 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:55:05pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

No, they don't even see them as people, just a means to an end.

418 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:55:16pm

re: #396 BryanS

Not necessarily. If he's "legally insane" that is true. Jeffery Dahmer was legally sane when he stood trial--please try and convince me he was sane.

He was a sick fuck and he knew it and what is more he enjoyed it.. In fact he celebrated it. It made him climax sexually. Totally sane and totally deserving of the death penalty.

419 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:55:22pm

re: #377 recusancy

If he's insane he'll be unfit to stand trial.

if the shooter is indeed certifiable, then I hope he'll spend the rest of his life in a rubber room with nothing he can use to hurt himself and with no chance of release or parole.

420 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:55:39pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

This has to become intolerable. It just has too. I'm sick of this shit.

421 KingKenrod  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:55:39pm

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the investigators meant for that to get out. They're refusing to give a name or show photos, and they do say they have them.

Interesting. Eerily like a McVeigh/Nichols thing. They were sovereign citizen shitheads too.

422 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:55:55pm

re: #411 lawhawk

There are sometimes issues with DNA evidence - particularly when a particular jurisdiction's crime lab is doing illegal/unethical things, or DNA claims are made that are statistically unsupported. DNA is a tool that vastly improves convictions and keeps innocent people from going to prison and helps secure pardons of those convicted of crimes in years past. But it has been used and abused as well.

Exactly. No system devised by man can guarantee we do nor wrongly convict people. Assuming that premise, I just can't bring myself to support the death penalty.

423 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:56:10pm

re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist

Pretty little girl. My God, what they must be going through, what all the families must be going through. A neighbor offers to take your kid to wave at the Congresswoman...who the hell thinks that's the beginning of nightmare that won't end?

They'd have to put me away.
No doubt about it.

424 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:56:12pm

re: #407 jamesfirecat

I am against the DP for one simple reason DF, if we want to impose maximum suffering on some piece of pond scum, which is worth... a quick way out, or life in a box?

I don't care. This man went on a killing spree, he should not live. End Story.

425 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:56:12pm

re: #404 albusteve

Technically, it will come after the judge orders a psych evaluation for purposes of standing trial (and the defense team could request if they seek an insanity defense). Even before that, Laughner will probably be given a psych eval to see whether he's suicidal or otherwise psychotic before being placed in jail - as a matter of course.

426 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:57:15pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

Good grief.
In this article:

wow...talk about heated rhetoric.

427 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:57:34pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. This guy is pond scum, waste him.

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

428 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:57:50pm

re: #363 reine.de.tout

For me it was simpler.
I asked myself this question:
If I were to serve on a jury in a death penalty case, could I vote for the death penalty, essentially vote to kill someone?

And my self-answer was "no".

I couldn't either. The death penalty is not a deterrent, contrary to what some want, the justice system should not be about retribution/revenge and the death penalty can put an innocent person's blood on our hands.

429 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:58:31pm
430 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:58:36pm

re: #396 BryanS

Not necessarily. If he's "legally insane" that is true. Jeffery Dahmer was legally sane when he stood trial--please try and convince me he was sane.

The definition of sanity is proving the person understands what they did was wrong. Of course these people are not what we would consider "sane" or normal, but clinically insane is the difference between prison, possibly death and a hospital.

I think most people are probably NOT. The best example I can think of of a criminally insane person was Ed Gein, the guy the Psycho move was loosely based on. Gein didn't know what he was doing was wrong. He didn't understand why he was being arrested, even as they found the bodies in his home. If you never read his story, it's ghoulish but oddly fascinating.

431 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:07pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

Good grief.
In this article:

Yeah, people were posting some of that upstream. Sounds like the opponent went full metal wingnut trying to get her out of office, but she pulled through the election.

Ya know, I was raised around guns...I don't have anything AGAINST guns...but the sight of a candidate cradling a big gun does not immediately say, "Vote for him!" to me.

I mean, holding a shotgun as he poses at his ranch, or something, but that guy just looks nuts.

432 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:22pm

re: #424 Dark_Falcon

I don't care. This man went on a killing spree, he should not live. End Story.

He'll die this way also Dark... its just a question of when, and of how.

One quick needle?

Or years of having his body fall apart bit by bit?

Which seems like a sentence more befitting such a monster?

433 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:22pm

re: #425 lawhawk

Technically, it will come after the judge orders a psych evaluation for purposes of standing trial (and the defense team could request if they seek an insanity defense). Even before that, Laughner will probably be given a psych eval to see whether he's suicidal or otherwise psychotic before being placed in jail - as a matter of course.

that's the way it should be...and if it all goes down inside three months, I'd say the wheels of justice are turning nicely

434 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:32pm

re: #428 b_sharp

I couldn't either. The death penalty is not a deterrent, contrary to what some want, the justice system should not be about retribution/revenge and the death penalty can put an innocent person's blood on our hands.

We should not kill people.
And, of course, I think it's no secret I apply that to the unborn as well as death penalty cases. But it all boils down to: we should not kill people. Punish, yes.

435 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:45pm

re: #427 BongCrodny

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

I concur.

436 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:48pm

He executed a federal judge. The Feds and Arizona have the death penalty. Regardless of how you feel he does qualify for the death penalty as things stand. Odds are, whoever the prosecutor is will no doubt, in my mind, seek the death penalty.

437 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:48pm

re: #415 reine.de.tout

Good grief.
In this article:

Yes, but Jesse Kelly did not utter violent rhetoric himself. I don't know if his campaign did, and I suspect not. Taking people shooting is not incitement. As for him posing with the weapon, I find nothing wrong with that.

438 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 5:59:49pm

re: #427 BongCrodny

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

Exactly!

439 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:00:28pm

re: #429 lawhawk

I'm going to surmise that the second suspect may be somehow related to how Loughner arrived at the supermarket - a driver or someone who provided him with the weapons/ammo, etc. Suspect may not have been a shooter, but he or she enabled Loughner to arrive at the supermarket and go on his murderous rampage.

440 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:07pm

re: #431 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, people were posting some of that upstream. Sounds like the opponent went full metal wingnut trying to get her out of office, but she pulled through the election.

Ya know, I was raised around guns...I don't have anything AGAINST guns...but the sight of a candidate cradling a big gun does not immediately say, "Vote for him!" to me.

I mean, holding a shotgun as he poses at his ranch, or something, but that guy just looks nuts.

I don't mind guns either, we have guns.
But people who go around promoting photos of themselves holding and cradling their guns - that's just really weird.

441 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:16pm

re: #379 albusteve

I'll make room

Because you have an emotional investment in revenge or because you feel it's the best way to protect society?

442 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:17pm

re: #422 BryanS

Exactly. No system devised by man can guarantee we do nor wrongly convict people. Assuming that premise, I just can't bring myself to support the death penalty.

is it possiblt that this guy, today, could be wrongly convicted?...maybe someone is missing something here

443 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:18pm

re: #430 marjoriemoon

The definition of sanity is proving the person understands what they did was wrong. Of course these people are not what we would consider "sane" or normal, but clinically insane is the difference between prison, possibly death and a hospital.

I think most people are probably NOT. The best example I can think of of a criminally clinically insane person was Ed Gein, the guy the Psycho move was loosely based on. Gein didn't know what he was doing was wrong. He didn't understand why he was being arrested, even as they found the bodies in his home. If you never read his story, it's ghoulish but oddly fascinating.

444 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:24pm

re: #427 BongCrodny

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

Yes, I would. I want him gone, in order to make a clear point: Mag Dog killers will be put down like mad dogs.

445 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:33pm

re: #436 Gus 802

He executed a federal judge. The Feds and Arizona have the death penalty. Regardless of how you feel he does qualify for the death penalty as things stand. Odds are, whoever the prosecutor is will no doubt, in my mind, seek the death penalty.

You right, they'll kill him but it is letting him off easy.

446 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:01:37pm

re: #421 KingKenrod

Interesting. Eerily like a McVeigh/Nichols thing. They were sovereign citizen shitheads too.

An accomplice also makes it look a little more as though they had some sort of coordinated political motivation, and less as though this one guy came up with something in a vacuum.

I guess we'll find out when they find him.

Is there a list anywhere of the people confirmed dead?

447 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:02:51pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Jesse Kelly did not utter violent rhetoric himself. I don't know if his campaign did, and I suspect not. Taking people shooting is not incitement. As for him posing with the weapon, I find nothing wrong with that.

Except that it's just weird, DF.
Seriously. I can shoot. We have pistols and we have rifles.
But I have exactly ZERO photos of any of us standing proudly and cradling our guns. Does a person who knits have photos of themselves cradling their knitting needles? I find it to be just weird.

448 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:03:24pm

re: #341 jamesfirecat

There is a hell of a lot longer leap from "Worst person in the world" to "kill them" than there is from "now is not the time to retreat, now is the time to reload" to the same destination...


The Worst Person segment may have funny for a short while, but it got boring. I wonder if it was there to boost ratings?
My impression of Countdown, first two segments are not bad journalism for cable, but beyond the first two segment, it becomes more entertainment than news.

Someday soon, I am going to post a page to explain how I pissed off Bill O'Reilly enough to send a stalker producer chasing blogger Amanda Terkel across state lines.

I sort of may have made it appear that Olbermann was responsible.


I also used a variation of Rick Martinez's old blogging name when I pulled it off..... Trajan75IQ

Sometimes, I am a bad. person

449 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:03:48pm

re: #447 reine.de.tout

Except that it's just weird, DF.
Seriously. I can shoot. We have pistols and we have rifles.
But I have exactly ZERO photos of any of us standing proudly and cradling our guns. Does a person who knits have photos of themselves cradling their knitting needles? I find it to be just weird.

If you had bullets flying out of those needles I bet you would!! lol

450 efuseakay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:03:48pm

Let us not forget the DHS report on right wing violence issued in 2009...

Fox News link, so the righties can't use the "Leftwing source!" excuse.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

451 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:04:27pm

re: #446 SanFranciscoZionist

An accomplice also makes it look a little more as though they had some sort of coordinated political motivation, and less as though this one guy came up with something in a vacuum.

I guess we'll find out when they find him.

Is there a list anywhere of the people confirmed dead?

Can't seem to find a simple list. I'm assuming that they haven't released all of the names yet.

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:04:55pm

re: #424 Dark_Falcon

I don't care. This man went on a killing spree, he should not live. End Story.

In a case like this, I have to say, I simply don't care. Lock him up, shoot him, just get him away from anyone else he can hurt.

I have more complicated feelings about the death penalty in other situations, but with something open and shut like this--there's no way to exact an appropriate revenge in a civilized society. Just get him isolated and under control. I don't really care if he's living or dead.

453 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:05:17pm

re: #429 lawhawk

NYT - Second Suspect Being Sought in Shooting.

Registration required.
argh.

454 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:05:20pm

re: #440 reine.de.tout

I don't mind guns either, we have guns.
But people who go around promoting photos of themselves holding and cradling their guns - that's just really weird.

He was in the Marine Corps. He was taught to value his rifle, that prayer from Full Metal Jacket that begins "This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine." is not just rhetoric to a combat Marine. His intent was to highlight is support of gun owners rights and his military record.

455 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:05:37pm

I bought an XBox 360 two days ago to help me ignore this crap.

Not working yet. :-/

456 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:06:11pm

re: #441 b_sharp

Because you have an emotional investment in revenge or because you feel it's the best way to protect society?

why the trick question?...what difference does it make?, it's just my opinion...retribution...I'd go so far as to let the victims kin decide, you know, thumbs up or thumbs down?

457 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:06:28pm

re: #427 BongCrodny

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

I had an interesting conversation once with a man who thought it would be a deterrent to jihadi terrorists if we burned a few alive in Times Square.

I pointed out that we were dealing with people who were willing to fly a plane into a building, so I wasn't entirely sure that would work...

458 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:06:29pm

re: #436 Gus 802

An attack on the nations very government is a crime against us all. I have no problem with this guy getting the needle. There is no DNA debate in this case. There is no question of guilt. He may be mentally disabled, if that is the case, I'd change my mind. But only in that circumstance.

459 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:06:33pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

Registration required.
argh.

Clear any NYT cookies and try again.

460 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:07:10pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

Want my registration info for the LAT?

461 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:07:13pm

re: #448 Reginald Perrin

The Worst Person segment may have funny for a short while, but it got boring. I wonder if it was there to boost ratings?
My impression of Countdown, first two segments are not bad journalism for cable, but beyond the first two segment, it becomes more entertainment than news.

Someday soon, I am going to post a page to explain how I pissed off Bill O'Reilly enough to send a stalker producer chasing blogger Amanda Terkel across state lines.

I sort of may have made it appear that Olbermann was responsible.

I also used a variation of Rick Martinez's old blogging name when I pulled it off... Trajan75IQ

Sometimes, I am a bad. person

If you were PWNing Twajie, you weren't being bad. ;)

462 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:07:27pm

re: #440 reine.de.tout

I'm from Texas, so guns don't bother me either. But I assume that politicians who do this are insecure. Nothing says I'm afraid of everything and everybody like walking around with a visible firearm. My cousin is a retired Marine and owns guns, but you would never see them. He's too confident for that. I have another cousin, who dropped out of the Army who feels the need to let people know he's "strapped". One cousin is a true badass, the other is a shit talking fool who's never even won a fist fight.

463 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:07:46pm

re: #459 ozbloke

You beat me to it!

464 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:07:56pm

re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist

I had an interesting conversation once with a man who thought it would be a deterrent to jihadi terrorists if we burned a few alive in Times Square.

I pointed out that we were dealing with people who were willing to fly a plane into a building, so I wasn't entirely sure that would work...

I want to make a joke at this point involving a topic that can't be handled in good taste...

So here is somebody handling it in WONDERFULLY bad taste.

465 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:08:08pm

re: #442 albusteve

is it possiblt that this guy, today, could be wrongly convicted?...maybe someone is missing something here

In this particular case, it is unlikely they have the wrong guy. But the guy has a few marbles loose obviously. He should be locked away forever in solitary confinement--for his own and society's protection.

466 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:08:11pm

re: #449 marjoriemoon

If you had bullets flying out of those needles I bet you would!! lol

heh.

The point is, I find people who are so enamored of their guns that they have photos taken of themselves fondling the weapons, to be just strange.
No one else does that with their hobby, and that's what guns are (or should be), a hobby. Why the utter fascination with the GUN that they will pose with it? I don't think photos like that are meant to be benign. I think they're meant to send a message about the person in the photo - Look at me! I'm rough, I'm tough, I'll do whatever it takes! (Even if it takes using that weapon).

467 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:08:26pm

re: #460 Rightwingconspirator

Want my registration info for the LAT?

you mind?

468 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:08:31pm

re: #458 Rightwingconspirator

An attack on the nations very government is a crime against us all. I have no problem with this guy getting the needle. There is no DNA debate in this case. There is no question of guilt. He may be mentally disabled, if that is the case, I'd change my mind. But only in that circumstance.

Quite Concur.

469 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:08:46pm

re: #458 Rightwingconspirator

An attack on the nations very government is a crime against us all. I have no problem with this guy getting the needle. There is no DNA debate in this case. There is no question of guilt. He may be mentally disabled, if that is the case, I'd change my mind. But only in that circumstance.

Correct. Those are the facts. His only out would be if he has a mental disability. The only other case would be if he plea bargains by providing testimony against his alleged accomplice.

470 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:09:15pm

re: #462 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm from Texas, so guns don't bother me either. But I assume that politicians who do this are insecure. Nothing says I'm afraid of everything and everybody like walking around with a visible firearm. My cousin is a retired Marine and owns guns, but you would never see them. He's too confident for that. I have another cousin, who dropped out of the Army who feels the need to let people know he's "strapped". One cousin is a true badass, the other is a shit talking fool who's never even won a fist fight.

EXACTLY.

471 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:09:43pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

Key grafs:

Richard Kastigar, a supervisor with the sheriff’s department, identified the gunman as a 22-year-old who was in custody. Various media reports identified him as Jared Lee Loughner. Investigators were seen entering the house of someone by that name about five miles from the shooting scene. Investigators said they were looking into whether the gunman acted alone and what his motives might have been in what they said evidence showed was a clear attempt to kill an elected official.

At a news conference Saturday evening, Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik of Pima County said there is “some reason to believe” that the suspect in custody did not act alone. Officials said they were seeking a second suspect.

472 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:09:46pm

re: #459 ozbloke

Clear any NYT cookies and try again.

I did.
It worked the other day.
Today - nope.

473 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:10:07pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Jesse Kelly did not utter violent rhetoric himself. I don't know if his campaign did, and I suspect not. Taking people shooting is not incitement. As for him posing with the weapon, I find nothing wrong with that.

I've seen the picture, he looks like a creepy thug douchebag

he knew who he was dogwhistling to, this is just the most craven creepy feishization of violence:

[Link: newsblogging.wordpress.com...]

474 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:10:15pm

re: #471 lawhawk

Key grafs:

Thank you.

475 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:10:24pm

re: #472 reine.de.tout

I did.
It worked the other day.
Today - nope.

Poo, remember then it was Floral's idea!

476 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:10:40pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

Registration required.
argh.

Richard Kastigar, a supervisor with the sheriff’s department, identified the gunman as a 22-year-old who was in custody. Various media reports identified him as Jared Lee Loughner. Investigators were seen entering the house of someone by that name about five miles from the shooting scene. Investigators said they were looking into whether the gunman acted alone and what his motives might have been in what they said evidence showed was a clear attempt to kill an elected official.

At a news conference Saturday evening, Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik of Pima County said there is “some reason to believe” that the suspect in custody did not act alone. Officials said they were seeking a second suspect.

The shootings immediately raised questions about potential political motives, but officials did not speculate about what might have provoked the attack.

477 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:10:46pm

re: #465 BryanS

In this particular case, it is unlikely they have the wrong guy. But the guy has a few marbles loose obviously. He should be locked away forever in solitary confinement--for his own and society's protection.

but then maybe he doesn't...nobody will ever know will they?...some people are not afraid to die, and take a few people with them

478 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:10:51pm

Shrieking Harpy chimes in. Adds poetry to her repertoire:

Clearly, Loughner is sick, mentally ill -- but suckling at the lefty teat is deadly poison for the soul.
479 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:02pm

where's that wide crotch shot of him, that one's even better

480 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:09pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

I think your point about this being an attack on our nation's government is correct. There will be an ongoing debate about whether or not he was a right or left wing kook or just a regular kook. But the anti government rhetoric, has no doubt played a roll.

481 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:20pm

Been thinking. Yes, Giffords seems to have survived the shooting. But we don't know the extent of her injuries. There's the possibility that she may be disabled for life.

482 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:28pm

re: #472 reine.de.tout

I did.
It worked the other day.
Today - nope.

By the way it did work for me, I had to remove three NYT cookies.

483 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:34pm

re: #467 reine.de.tout

Not at all. Ahhh email...

484 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:34pm

re: #473 WindUpBird

I've seen the picture, he looks like a creepy thug douchebag

he knew who he was dogwhistling to, this is just the most craven creepy feishization of violence:

[Link: newsblogging.wordpress.com...]

Well, we're gonna agree on this one.
I find that photo to be strange, and threatening.
NOT what a someone who's serious about a political life should be doing, IMO.

485 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:55pm

re: #475 ozbloke

Poo, remember then it was Floral's idea!

LOL.
Nope.
I like Flo.

486 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:11:56pm

re: #444 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I would. I want him gone, in order to make a clear point: Mag Dog killers will be put down like mad dogs.

I appreciate the honest sentiment, but I suspect I'll never be convinced of this.

I don't want this guy's last words to be an inspiration to anybody.

487 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:12:19pm

re: #483 Rightwingconspirator

Not at all. Ahhh email...

thanks!

488 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:12:40pm

re: #469 Gus 802

Correct. Those are the facts. His only out would be if he has a mental disability. The only other case would be if he plea bargains by providing testimony against his alleged accomplice.

There are still conspiracy questions flying around about McVeigh's connections. This will be the same thing if he is killed before he talks long and loud about everything that motivated him.

489 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:12:47pm

re: #482 ozbloke

By the way it did work for me, I had to remove three NYT cookies.

ah, OK, I know what I did wrong now.

490 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:12:48pm

re: #487 reine.de.tout

Glad to help.

491 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:13:07pm

re: #473 WindUpBird

I've seen the picture, he looks like a creepy thug douchebag

he knew who he was dogwhistling to, this is just the most craven creepy feishization of violence:

[Link: newsblogging.wordpress.com...]

I do not agree. I've seen a lot of pictures of soldiers and Marines that look like that. Nothing creepy or nasty at all. Yes, he has his rifle, but its pointed safely down and his finger is clearly outside the trigger guard.

492 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:13:07pm

re: #461 Dark_Falcon

I was bad because, I neglected to account for unintended consequences.

I didn't think my little ploy against one of Eric Odom's troll attacks could have pissed off someone as big as O'Reilly. It was done to rattle Odom's cage, he was the target, twajie was the diversion, but unfortunately, someone at Fox blew it all out of proportion.

493 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:13:10pm

re: #481 Gus 802

Been thinking. Yes, Giffords seems to have survived the shooting. But we don't know the extent of her injuries. There's the possibility that she may be disabled for life.

That would be a sad outcome--I hope she fully recovers.

494 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:13:19pm

This is an example of why I don't support the death penalty. There are hundreds more stories like this from our history.

Our legal process is good, but it isn't perfect. You can't un-kill anybody, and you can't just pass a law that says "only in cases where it is really incredibly obvious that he did it", because that's not how laws work.

495 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:13:47pm

re: #470 reine.de.tout

When I see these macho politicians posing with guns, I wonder if they know how much they look like snot nosed gang bangers and wannabe thugs with their posturing.

496 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:13:57pm

re: #489 reine.de.tout

ah, OK, I know what I did wrong now.

Good then three cookie idea was mine.

497 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:14:01pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. However, if it turns out that the shooter was motivated by violent rhetoric from left-wing figures, I will hold THEM accountable for what they said.

all I can say is bravo...one of the best answers to this bullshit ever.

498 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:14:19pm

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

He was in the Marine Corps. He was taught to value his rifle, that prayer from Full Metal Jacket that begins "This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine." is not just rhetoric to a combat Marine. His intent was to highlight is support of gun owners rights and his military record.

9_9

499 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:14:39pm

re: #494 Fozzie Bear

This is an example of why I don't support the death penalty. There are hundreds more stories like this from our history.

Our legal process is good, but it isn't perfect. You can't un-kill anybody, and you can't just pass a law that says "only in cases where it is really incredibly obvious that he did it", because that's not how laws work.

woooops. meant to link this

500 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:14:51pm

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

He was in the Marine Corps. He was taught to value his rifle, that prayer from Full Metal Jacket that begins "This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine." is not just rhetoric to a combat Marine. His intent was to highlight is support of gun owners rights and his military record.

In normal civilian life, one can show support of gun rights (which I do support), and NEVER HAVE A PHOTO of oneself cradling a gun in combat gear.

501 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:15:12pm

re: #472 reine.de.tout

I did.
It worked the other day.
Today - nope.

heh...they're on to you

502 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:15:28pm

re: #496 ozbloke

Good then three cookie idea was mine.

Nope.
NOW it's Flo's.
I like Flo.

503 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:15:28pm

re: #494 Fozzie Bear

This is an example of why I don't support the death penalty. There are hundreds more stories like this from our history.

Our legal process is good, but it isn't perfect. You can't un-kill anybody, and you can't just pass a law that says "only in cases where it is really incredibly obvious that he did it", because that's not how laws work.

I fully agree.

504 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:15:31pm

re: #499 Fozzie Bear

wooops. meant to link this

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

arrgh nvm can't figure out how to work msnbc's monstrosity of a flash player.

505 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:15:52pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

Registration required.
argh.

That article has no information about a second shooter except to say:

But at a Saturday evening news conference, investigators said they were looking for an accomplice who may have helped the gunman.

506 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:15:55pm

Dr. Manny: Giffords Likely Faces Long Road to Recovery From Head Wound in Shooting

[...]

Dr. Manny Alvarez, senior managing health editor of FoxNews.com, said surviving a gunshot wound to the head is rare, but not unheard of – and Giffords is in for a long fight.

Alvarez said the survival rate of a gunshot wound to the head is about 5 percent – and 3 percent of those who do survive will always have a neurological deficiency, such as memory loss or a lack or motor skills.

“It all depends on where the bullet goes,” he said. “Your best chance of survival is from front to back, if you get shot side to side, the survival rate is less, and it all depends on the damage the brain has.”

Giffords’ friend, state Sen. Linda Lopez, confirmed the bullet entered Giffords’ head at her temple and exited through her forehead. Lopez said Giffords was responding to commands before surgery but is not sure what Giffords' long-term prognosis is.

“If the bullet goes through both hemispheres and leans toward the base of skull, that is where most of the vascular tissues are, and that can be a deadly result,” Alvarez said. “If the bullet goes through both hemispheres, but there is a clean exit wound, the patient can be lucky and there might not be any significant damage. Of course, the best prognosis is when the bullet affects only one hemisphere. Nonetheless, any gunshot wound to the head is going to leave residual side effects.”

[...]

507 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:16:01pm

re: #478 JasonA

Shrieking Harpy chimes in. Adds poetry to her repertoire:

Ah yes, the murder was caused by Reefer Madness!

/dripping, boy is Geller stupid.

508 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:16:09pm

And OZBLOKE, you know I'm kidding with you, right?

509 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:17:08pm

re: #502 reine.de.tout

Nope.
NOW it's Flo's.
I like Flo.

I never win anything here, I think its a conspiracy against me ;_;

510 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:17:08pm

re: #492 Reginald Perrin

I was bad because, I neglected to account for unintended consequences.

I didn't think my little ploy against one of Eric Odom's troll attacks could have pissed off someone as big as O'Reilly. It was done to rattle Odom's cage, he was the target, twajie was the diversion, but unfortunately, someone at Fox blew it all out of proportion.

Sorry that it happened. But I'm glad you learned from it. You're a good egg, Reggie.

511 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:17:11pm

re: #434 reine.de.tout

We should not kill people.
And, of course, I think it's no secret I apply that to the unborn as well as death penalty cases. But it all boils down to: we should not kill people. Punish, yes.

Why punish?

Isn't the intent of the justice system to protect the members of society not to cater to a sense of revenge? Does punishment actually deter violent criminals from being violent?

I think permanently removing people we know to be beyond rehabilitation from society and rehabilitating those that can be helped the most effective path toward protecting society.

512 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:06pm

re: #505 Amory Blaine

That article has no information about a second shooter except to say:

But at a Saturday evening news conference, investigators said they were looking for an accomplice who may have helped the gunman.

Actually it says a lot....this may not have been the act of a crazed lone shooter, but rather a conspiracy of two or more individuals.

513 justaminute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:11pm

It is being report that yes, one of those suspicious packages were addressed to her. This is going to bring out the conspiracies theorist. I live in Oklahoma City, we had these theories that lasted for years. When your close to a situation like this it make for a really uncomfortable roller coaster ride of emotion.

514 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:16pm

re: #485 reine.de.tout

LOL!
*smooch*

515 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:16pm

ezraklein

One way to pay tribute to those harmed at Giffords' "Congress on your corner" event: Attend your congressperson's next community meeting.

516 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:25pm

re: #486 BongCrodny

I appreciate the honest sentiment, but I suspect I'll never be convinced of this.

I don't want this guy's last words to be an inspiration to anybody.

then muzzle him...nobody needs to know what his lasts words will be....you make it too complicated

517 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:48pm

re: #500 reine.de.tout

In normal civilian life, one can show support of gun rights (which I do support), and NEVER HAVE A PHOTO of oneself cradling a gun in combat gear.

He was trying to highlight his war service. I wonder when that photo was taken. It might have been taken while he was still in the Marines.

518 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:18:59pm

re: #508 reine.de.tout

And OZBLOKE, you know I'm kidding with you, right?

I like Flo too, she is always willing to stick her neck out.
And what a neck it is!

519 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:19:25pm

(KOLD)
Reports that the shooter family is nuts to the point that the neighbors moved away.

520 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:19:38pm

re: #494 Fozzie Bear

This is an example of why I don't support the death penalty. There are hundreds more stories like this from our history.

Our legal process is good, but it isn't perfect. You can't un-kill anybody, and you can't just pass a law that says "only in cases where it is really incredibly obvious that he did it", because that's not how laws work.

why not?

521 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:20:14pm

re: #512 Reginald Perrin

Actually it says a lot...this may not have been the act of a crazed lone shooter, but rather a conspiracy of two or more individuals.

I was hoping for more info.

522 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:21:14pm

re: #511 b_sharp

Why punish?

Isn't the intent of the justice system to protect the members of society not to cater to a sense of revenge? Does punishment actually deter violent criminals from being violent?

I think permanently removing people we know to be beyond rehabilitation from society and rehabilitating those that can be helped the most effective path toward protecting society.

REHABILITATION. Used to be the key word in incarceration. No mas, to our shame and detriment.

523 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:21:14pm

re: #519 Kilroy01

(KOLD)
Reports that the shooter family is nuts to the point that the neighbors moved away.

Huh I wonder if that makes things worse or better... I mean on one hand we don't have to worry about parents who tried their best to raise a productive member of society and did everything normal parents do, on the other... well its never a good sign when the younger generation fails to in some way be at least a little bit better than the old one...

524 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:21:55pm

re: #512 Reginald Perrin

I think the investigation is ongoing. I don't really expect much for a couple of days. Give the police & the Feds time to do their jobs.

525 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:21:55pm

re: #511 b_sharp

Why punish?

Isn't the intent of the justice system to protect the members of society not to cater to a sense of revenge? Does punishment actually deter violent criminals from being violent?

I think permanently removing people we know to be beyond rehabilitation from society and rehabilitating those that can be helped the most effective path toward protecting society.

I have nothing against rehabilitation, for those who can be rehabilitated, and of course they do exist.

But yes - if a person commits a crime against the community, yes, punishment is appropriate. If rehabilitation goes along with it - fine with me.

526 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:24:22pm

re: #510 Dark_Falcon

Sorry that it happened. But I'm glad you learned from it. You're a good egg, Reggie.

That is why I have chosen to take a different approach and be a little less vocal. I am working on a blog and the first post is going to be made on November 11th at 11 pm

eleventy.co

I couldn't afford the asking price for the dot.com version and saved several K by dropping the M.

527 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:24:25pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

Okay. I missed that reporting. LOL I honestly don't go over there (Fox News) very much!

528 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:26:01pm

God this sucks.

529 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:26:05pm

re: #481 Gus 802

Been thinking. Yes, Giffords seems to have survived the shooting. But we don't know the extent of her injuries. There's the possibility that she may be disabled for life.

Entirely possible. This whole thing is touch and go, and we may not know the full extent of the damage for quite a while.

530 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:26:31pm

hmmmm...KOLD reporting there was potentially an explosive device found at the congresswoman's office. Bomb squad just exploded it.

531 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:27:17pm

re: #528 Gus 802

God this sucks.

Yes. it does.

532 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:27:17pm

re: #522 Stanley Sea

REHABILITATION. Used to be the key word in incarceration. No mas, to our shame and detriment.

In this case, it is irrelevant. A mass killer like this can never be released from prison. It's certainly justifiable to say he should not be executed (though I think that he should be), but he cannot ever be a free man. He has forfeited his freedom permanently.

533 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:27:54pm

re: #529 SanFranciscoZionist

Entirely possible. This whole thing is touch and go, and we may not know the full extent of the damage for quite a while.

Yeah. I thought maybe they might put her in a medically induced coma. Apparently the damage might be to the frontal lobe area. It entered her temple and exited through her forehead.

534 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:28:42pm

re: #532 Dark_Falcon

Right. Even if he was found to meet the legal definition of insanity and couldn't be executed, he would still need to be put away for life.

535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:29:25pm

re: #529 SanFranciscoZionist

Entirely possible. This whole thing is touch and go, and we may not know the full extent of the damage for quite a while.

When a neurosurgeon says the results are "better than expected" it still doesn't mean something's good either.

536 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:29:40pm

re: #431 SanFranciscoZionist

Ya know, I was raised around guns...I don't have anything AGAINST guns...but the sight of a candidate cradling a big gun does not immediately say, "Vote for him!" to me.

Same here.

I grew up in a family filled with hunters and sportsmen, and with several relatives who are cops or in law enforcement. Guns don't bother me. I'm still not going to vote for a lunatic wingnut like that guy.

537 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:29:40pm

re: #523 jamesfirecat

Increases chances of an insanity defense....

538 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:30:06pm

re: #532 Dark_Falcon

No worries. There is approximately 0% chance this guy will ever be a free man again.

539 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:30:07pm

re: #527 KayInMaine

Okay. I missed that reporting. LOL I honestly don't go over there (Fox News) very much!

Honestly - none of the national reporting I saw in the immediate aftermath of Katrina was very good.

540 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:30:18pm

re: #533 Gus 802

Yeah. I thought maybe they might put her in a medically induced coma. Apparently the damage might be to the frontal lobe area. It entered her temple and exited through her forehead.

That can mess a person up for life. She's lucky to survive, but we should all say a prayer for her full recovery. Hoops, if you are reading this, could you please put Congresswoman Gifford and the other wounded today on the Prayer List?

541 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:30:20pm

re: #536 Lidane

Same here.

I grew up in a family filled with hunters and sportsmen, and with several relatives who are cops or in law enforcement. Guns don't bother me. I'm still not going to vote for a lunatic wingnut like that guy.

it just screams "Hey weirdos! I'm your guy!"

And he almost won!

542 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:31:26pm

re: #538 Fozzie Bear

No worries. There is approximately 0% chance this guy will ever be a free man again.

I know. I was just pointing out that this is a case where rehabilitation is irrelevant.

543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:31:28pm

Off topic, but related...

Palin's TV show cancelled.

544 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:32:21pm

re: #530 BryanS

[Link: www.kold.com...]

Suspicious device outside Rep. Gifford's office, and a prayer vigil of 30-40 people were moved away to a safer location while law enforcement dealt with the situation.

545 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:33:24pm

re: #481 Gus 802

Been thinking. Yes, Giffords seems to have survived the shooting. But we don't know the extent of her injuries. There's the possibility that she may be disabled for life.

IFthe reporting I linked earlier was correct, she was shot at point blank range, the bullet went in at one temple and exited the other side. There's no way of telling what that bullet scrambled on it's passage. I pray for her & her families sake, but there's no way a bullet through the brain doesn't do some damage.

546 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:33:57pm

re: #543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Off topic, but related...

Palin's TV show cancelled.

Was it ratings related? And if so why did the ratings go down...

This should lead to some very interesting posts in the future.

Especially if she claims the show being shut down is (HEH) an attack on her first Amendment Rights...

547 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:34:12pm

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," the sheriff said. "And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

549 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:34:21pm

re: #539 reine.de.tout

Honestly - none of the national reporting I saw in the immediate aftermath of Katrina was very good.

there was a blog called "interdictor" which was a better source of katrina news than any national news source, basically a guy holed up in an IT colo, keeping the servers running with a diesel generators, and he became sort of a news focus


I think my favorite bit of grim humor in the Katrina aftermath was when the police started referring to the people who refused to evacuate the superdome, starting fights, etc, as "Die Hard Saints Fans"

550 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:34:29pm

re: #546 jamesfirecat

Maybe it sucked.

551 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:35:31pm

re: #543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Off topic, but related...

Palin's TV show cancelled.

I was wondering how she would be able to run for office and get free advertising on TLC.

552 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:35:41pm

re: #543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Off topic, but related...

Palin's TV show cancelled.

Praise the Lord.

553 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:35:49pm
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking about Arizona:

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.

"It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."

554 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:35:55pm

re: #547 BigPapa

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," the sheriff said. "And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

I mean what would he know about rising violence, crime, and indications of extremism...

he's only the sheriff! Why, let's instead go to noted patriot and security expert Pamela Geller for her expert opinion!


...what? You say she's strung out after huffling Pledge all night and chasing it with barbituates?

555 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:36:12pm

re: #546 jamesfirecat

Was it ratings related? And if so why did the ratings go down...

I would think it's all about ratings. Either that, or she's serious about running in 2012 and ended the show now so she could prep a run.

556 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:37:02pm

re: #549 WindUpBird

there was a blog called "interdictor" which was a better source of katrina news than any national news source, basically a guy holed up in an IT colo, keeping the servers running with a diesel generators, and he became sort of a news focus

I think my favorite bit of grim humor in the Katrina aftermath was when the police started referring to the people who refused to evacuate the superdome, starting fights, etc, as "Die Hard Saints Fans"

I had a battery operated TV - no power for a week. All I had was that battery-operated TV. Can I tell you we went through some batteries?

557 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:37:06pm

re: #555 Lidane

I would think it's all about ratings. Either that, or she's serious about running in 2012 and ended the show now so she could prep a run.

I think it's the latter, she will in fact attempt to make a go at it, she honestly would be a fool not to try

558 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:37:59pm

re: #547 BigPapa

They are certainly on the forefront of Immigration reform. Or, attempts at it.

559 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:38:09pm

re: #556 reine.de.tout

I had a battery operated TV - no power for a week. All I had was that battery-operated TV. Can I tell you we went through some batteries?

I'm trying to think what I'd do sans power for a week, the longest I was ever without power was around 3 days in a really crazy snowstorm in Seattle. I remember there were a lot of us making fires in the fireplace and drinking *_*

560 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:38:18pm

re: #557 WindUpBird

I think it's the latter, she will in fact attempt to make a go at it, she honestly would be a fool not to try

So that means she is going to try right?

561 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:38:51pm

re: #558 Floral Giraffe

They are certainly on the forefront of Immigration reform. Or, attempts at it.

they also seem to be quite with the anti-federal-government sentiment

562 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:39:21pm

re: #559 WindUpBird

I'm trying to think what I'd do sans power for a week, the longest I was ever without power was around 3 days in a really crazy snowstorm in Seattle. I remember there were a lot of us making fires in the fireplace and drinking *_*

This was the heat of summer.
No power.
I would get in my car and ride around just so I could put the A/C on for 30 minutes or so, and get some relief. It was awful.

For the next one, we bought a generator. Best thing we ever did.

563 Jadespring  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:39:30pm

okay this was originally posted in the wrong damn thread!! stupid computer internet $&^%^%&^%.....

So repost... :)


Hey all.

A few weeks before Christmas my computer konked it big...blue screens of death all over the place. (hence my disapearance) Had to send it to the hospital and wait to be able to afford to spring it which will hopefully occur next week. So last week I finally scrounged this old clunker which I think was built in the pioneer age. Using the internet is incredibly painful. Even emails are a chore.

So anyways I heard about this on the radio on the way home and my first thought was I need to check out LGF no matter how painful it is. They'll be covering it and be the best place where info of what's going on is collected because surfing is out of the question. Took about 15 mins and a couple of refreshes to get the site up but I'm here! (and hopefully can post).

First off, Hi!
Second, I'm really, really sorry this has happened and feel great empathy for those directly involved and all the possible ramifications for your country. This is bad, no matter where this guys politics are. Just plain BAD.
Thirdly, thanks for being place, a sane place where someone as net deficient as I am right now and get a good idea of everything that's going on. Everyone here rocks.

(okay now I'm hitting post...please, please work...)

564 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:39:45pm

re: #427 BongCrodny

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

Giving him the needle or a lung full of lethal smoke will ensure he never gets the chance to do this again. Funny things can happen at parole hearings.

As I mentioned above, if this guy gets an LWOP sentence, I want it to be tantamount to torture without the actual torture. None of this shit about watching television, reading books, internet access, visitors, etc. He sits in a fricken cage, all day long, forever. No visitors, no exercise, NOTHING. Literally, keep him fed till he drops.

You ok with that?

'Cause otherwise, I say terminate.

566 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:40:03pm

re: #560 Kilroy01

So that means she is going to try right?

of course she's going to try, she's the only one whose name matters at the moment in the GOP as a front runner. Romney is doomed, Huntsman is barely on the radar, Huckabee is weak sauce, Bachmann is insane...

567 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:40:10pm

re: #549 WindUpBird

there was a blog called "interdictor" which was a better source of katrina news than any national news source, basically a guy holed up in an IT colo, keeping the servers running with a diesel generators, and he became sort of a news focus

I think my favorite bit of grim humor in the Katrina aftermath was when the police started referring to the people who refused to evacuate the superdome, starting fights, etc, as "Die Hard Saints Fans"

Well, the Saints had a bad day today. They lost to the Seahawks. If the Packers win tomorrow, as Albusteve hopes, then the Seahawks will play the Bears next week. If the Eagles win, then the Seahawks will play the Falcons.

568 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:40:49pm

re: #558 Floral Giraffe

They are certainly on the forefront of Immigration reform. Or, attempts at it.

They are but the bigots are at the forefront of action because they are more motivated. Rational ways for dealing with a viable problem are overshadowed by hyperbole laced with racism.

569 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:40:49pm

re: #543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think a lot of things will be canceled for Palin over the next year or so.

570 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:41:39pm

re: #549 WindUpBird

there was a blog called "interdictor" which was a better source of katrina news than any national news source, basically a guy holed up in an IT colo, keeping the servers running with a diesel generators, and he became sort of a news focus

I think my favorite bit of grim humor in the Katrina aftermath was when the police started referring to the people who refused to evacuate the superdome, starting fights, etc, as "Die Hard Saints Fans"

I don't know where the police thought those people were going to go.
There was nowhere to go.
Their homes were gone.
There was nowhere to go!
Until Houston stepped up and offered shelter. Hooray for Houston; what an embarrassment for us.

571 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:42:05pm

OT
H1N1 is a bitch. My lungs never hurt like this before. Not ever.

572 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:42:56pm

re: #561 WindUpBird

I think, when you see as little effort to solve a problem ( immigration reform) and you live in a border state, like Arizona, with common murders, and all of the other issues, at some point, people try to solve the problem.
I believe it is a Federal issue, but, how many citizens have to be murdered, before the Feds act? And yes, I get that it is a very complex issue, that has only grown in complexity, as nothing has been done towards a solution.
I find it completely frightening, that the estimates of illegals in the USA is around 10 million. That's a BIG problem, with no easy solution.

*rant off*

573 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:43:18pm

re: #427 BongCrodny

From everything we've read about him so far, it seems pretty obvious he wanted to be a martyr.

You'd give him that?

On second though, yes, I'd give him that. It would be a win-win for all involved. He'll get martrydom, the wing nuts can scream about the injustice of it all, and the world, especially the U.S., will be rid of him forever. Once our slow ass justice system catches up to the sentencing of course, but during that time they can keep him on ice in solitary confinement on death row.

574 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:43:26pm

re: #553 Amory Blaine

Amen and more of this please. This man would have been dismissed and ignored just a few months ago. Or bashed, for daring to suggest that a lot of people are motivated by hate. It took people being killed in order for the obvious to be listened to.

575 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:43:53pm

re: #565 Gus 802

Obama on Giffords Shooting: An "Unspeakable Act"


[Video]

his heart's the right place, but honestly these days killings like this aren't really unspeakable. Assassinations happen overseas often enough, and mass shootings occur in the US every year. We need to speak about killings like this, because they do happen.

576 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:44:23pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

He was trying to highlight his war service. I wonder when that photo was taken. It might have been taken while he was still in the Marines.

As someone raised in part by a Viet Nam era force recon marine, I think it's possible to make the transition to civilian life without acting like a militaristic jag off that fetishizes guns and war at every opportunity.

577 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:44:46pm

re: #563 Jadespring

okay this was originally posted in the wrong damn thread!! stupid computer internet $&^%^%&^%...

So repost... :)

Hey all.

A few weeks before Christmas my computer konked it big...blue screens of death all over the place. (hence my disapearance) Had to send it to the hospital and wait to be able to afford to spring it which will hopefully occur next week. So last week I finally scrounged this old clunker which I think was built in the pioneer age. Using the internet is incredibly painful. Even emails are a chore.

So anyways I heard about this on the radio on the way home and my first thought was I need to check out LGF no matter how painful it is. They'll be covering it and be the best place where info of what's going on is collected because surfing is out of the question. Took about 15 mins and a couple of refreshes to get the site up but I'm here! (and hopefully can post).

First off, Hi!
Second, I'm really, really sorry this has happened and feel great empathy for those directly involved and all the possible ramifications for your country. This is bad, no matter where this guys politics are. Just plain BAD.
Thirdly, thanks for being place, a sane place where someone as net deficient as I am right now and get a good idea of everything that's going on. Everyone here rocks.

(okay now I'm hitting post...please, please work...)

You know there are times when I wish shipping wasn't so outrageously expensive. There have been several times when people here have had problems with their systems where I had a perfectly good system just taking up room in my shop that I could have sent.

578 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:45:13pm

re: #566 WindUpBird

of course she's going to try, she's the only one whose name matters at the moment in the GOP as a front runner. Romney is doomed, Huntsman is barely on the radar, Huckabee is weak sauce, Bachmann is insane...

If he has any sense, Hunstman will stay off the radar until 2016. I'd rather see all this teabagger garbage get curbstomped at the polls in 2012, and see the GOP try to regain some semblance of sanity, if that's even possible anymore.

579 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:45:32pm

We've seen enough craziness today, so this off topic post I think is a nice counterbalance to what is dominating the news right now:

Egypt's Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as "human shields"


Among those shields were movie stars Adel Imam and Yousra, popular preacher Amr Khaled, the two sons of President Hosni Mubarak, and thousands of citizens who have said they consider the attack one on Egypt as a whole.

“This is not about us and them,” said Dalia Mustafa, a student who attended mass at Virgin Mary Church on Maraashly. “We are one. This was an attack on Egypt as a whole, and I am standing with the Copts because the only way things will change in this country is if we come together.”

In the days following the brutal attack on Saints Church in Alexandria, which left 21 dead on New Year’ eve, solidarity between Muslims and Copts has seen an unprecedented peak. Millions of Egyptians changed their Facebook profile pictures to the image of a cross within a crescent – the symbol of an “Egypt for All”. Around the city, banners went up calling for unity, and depicting mosques and churches, crosses and crescents, together as one.

We've seen plenty of craziness from Islam in the past years. Something like this is extremely encouraging, and to take place in the Middle East is even more noteworthy. Now, will this get the press play it should? Probably not. So at least I'll let you guys know about it.

581 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:45:36pm

G'night friends. Both lefties and righties.

582 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:45:37pm

re: #571 Rightwingconspirator

OT
H1N1 is a bitch. My lungs never hurt like this before. Not ever.

Hang in there, RWC. Sorry it's hurting you.

583 sagehen  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:45:45pm

re: #382 The Shadow Do

DNA evidence may help to resolve old cases. It is a given in todays criminal investigation. There is very little liklihood of a bad conviction in these current cases.

Since DNA is clearing so many old cases, proving that innocent people were convicted... what makes you so sure there's no bad convictions in cases not based on biological evidence?

See, e.g., Cameron Todd Willingham

584 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:46:30pm

re: #579 BryanS

This made my heart feel good.

585 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:46:50pm

re: #566 WindUpBird

of course she's going to try, she's the only one whose name matters at the moment in the GOP as a front runner. Romney is doomed, Huntsman is barely on the radar, Huckabee is weak sauce, Bachmann is insane...

'Insane' may not technically be a negative in this environment...

586 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:47:15pm

re: #582 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. Back to the Doc Monday. I think he'll insist on Cipro this time.

587 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:47:33pm

re: #579 BryanS

We've seen enough craziness today, so this off topic post I think is a nice counterbalance to what is dominating the news right now:

Egypt's Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as "human shields"

We've seen plenty of craziness from Islam in the past years. Something like this is extremely encouraging, and to take place in the Middle East is even more noteworthy. Now, will this get the press play it should? Probably not. So at least I'll let you guys know about it.

Good on them. People should hear about stories like this, though, since its important.

588 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:47:36pm

re: #571 Rightwingconspirator

OT
H1N1 is a bitch. My lungs never hurt like this before. Not ever.

You got the swine?

589 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:48:27pm

re: #571 Rightwingconspirator

OT
H1N1 is a bitch. My lungs never hurt like this before. Not ever.

Everyone should get their flu shots this season if you haven't already. The standard dose includes H1N1 in the mix, and there is tonnes of supply.

590 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:48:47pm

re: #571 Rightwingconspirator

Hot tea, lemon & honey.
Feel better soon!

591 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:49:20pm

re: #579 BryanS

We've seen enough craziness today, so this off topic post I think is a nice counterbalance to what is dominating the news right now:

Egypt's Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as "human shields"


We've seen plenty of craziness from Islam in the past years. Something like this is extremely encouraging, and to take place in the Middle East is even more noteworthy. Now, will this get the press play it should? Probably not. So at least I'll let you guys know about it.

That's nice news.

:)

592 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:50:02pm

re: #588 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's the bird flu. Most common flu this year. It has a way of attacking the lungs and causing a secondary pneumonia. But the Doc will see for sure. I'll hit him up to get a sample to CDC. They track it.

593 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:50:50pm

re: #579 BryanS

Warms my heart! We need more of those moments. :D

594 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:50:56pm

re: #589 BryanS

Everyone should get their flu shots this season if you haven't already. The standard dose includes H1N1 in the mix, and there is tonnes of supply.

I fear the flu shot because of all the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people who get it saying they get sick.

595 Jadespring  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:51:06pm

re: #577 b_sharp

You know there are times when I wish shipping wasn't so outrageously expensive. There have been several times when people here have had problems with their systems where I had a perfectly good system just taking up room in my shop that I could have sent.

Thanks. Even the thought is appreciated. I miss my computer so bad, right now. I've been without an internet connection before but not a computer itself. It's been quite enlightening in just how much it's something I rely on.
Heck I've had to go back to HANDWRITING things including some drafts for some project proposals which I had to do for a meeting. I can't remember the last time I had to hand write something more then just lists or notes. :)

596 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:51:32pm

re: #579 BryanS

We've seen enough craziness today, so this off topic post I think is a nice counterbalance to what is dominating the news right now:

Egypt's Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as "human shields"

We've seen plenty of craziness from Islam in the past years. Something like this is extremely encouraging, and to take place in the Middle East is even more noteworthy. Now, will this get the press play it should? Probably not. So at least I'll let you guys know about it.

I posted this story yesterday actually, but yeah... this this was good news to see and I'm very glad to see there is at least SOME good news coming out of the middle east...

597 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:51:52pm

re: #592 Rightwingconspirator

I think it's the bird flu. Most common flu this year. It has a way of attacking the lungs and causing a secondary pneumonia. But the Doc will see for sure. I'll hit him up to get a sample to CDC. They track it.

Do you have an overwhelming urge to flap your wings arms?

598 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:52:49pm

re: #571 Rightwingconspirator

OT
H1N1 is a bitch. My lungs never hurt like this before. Not ever.

OOH,
Sorry RWC!
Didn't you get the vaccine?

599 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:53:25pm

re: #579 BryanS

We've seen enough craziness today, so this off topic post I think is a nice counterbalance to what is dominating the news right now:

Egypt's Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as "human shields"

One of my classmates is in Egypt right now. She's visiting her family while we're on break between semesters. I'll have to ask her about all that stuff when she gets back, since she's been in the country as it's gone on.

600 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:53:30pm

re: #594 Amory Blaine

I fear the flu shot because of all the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people who get it saying they get sick.

Do you also avoid stepping on cracks for fear of breaking your mother's back? That would be every bit as valid.

601 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:53:44pm

re: #587 Dark_Falcon

Good on them. People should hear about stories like this, though, since its important.

Agreed. Imagine what a counter message something like this is to the message from an anti-muslim raving lunatic like Geller.

602 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:54:24pm

re: #598 reine.de.tout

OOH,
Sorry RWC!
Didn't you get the vaccine?

I was going to take the vaccine but when the fridge died all my cultures were ruined.

603 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:54:30pm

re: #594 Amory Blaine

I fear the flu shot because of all the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people who get it saying they get sick.

Today's flu shots use attenuated virus; I used to get sick from the flu shot, but I haven't gotten sick in years.

604 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:54:32pm

re: #597 b_sharp

LOL.
BTW I watched all this bad TV lately. Including Kate Gosselin on Palins Alaska. What a spoiled brat Kate was. Sheesh. Most of the Alaska shows are good. Not Sarahs. The next one about the bush pilots looks awesome.

605 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:55:04pm

re: #591 SanFranciscoZionist

That's nice news.

:)

See this- Global Muslim Brotherhood Daily Report

606 brookly red  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:55:21pm

re: #594 Amory Blaine

I fear the flu shot because of all the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people who get it saying they get sick.

I ride the subway in NYC... I have been exposed to every germ & microbe on the planet (and some were not made by nature)... have some more garlic & carry on.

607 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:55:33pm

re: #601 BryanS

Agreed. Imagine what a counter message something like this is to the message from an anti-muslim raving lunatic like Geller.

Pfft. She wouldn't care. The Harpy would still find something in that story to prove that Muslims are still evil.

608 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:55:41pm

re: #603 reine.de.tout

Today's flu shots use attenuated virus; I used to get sick from the flu shot, but I haven't gotten sick in years.

So it is/was possible to get sick from the flu shot?

609 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:56:00pm

I hope we no longer see any more signs about "watering the tree of liberty" or "next time we come armed."

610 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:56:20pm

re: #601 BryanS

Agreed. Imagine what a counter message something like this is to the message from an anti-muslim raving lunatic like Geller.

She'll disregard it completely as it doesn't fit with her narrative.

611 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:56:21pm

re: #580 Gus 802

Of course they don't want to vote on the promised health care bill repeal.

The bill to the repeal the job-killing health care law and health care-related provisions in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010.

Which is joke in as it won't pass the Senate, but will be done to make the Tea Partier happy. But next week I can't image the media not trying to attach the Congresswoman's vote on Health Care directly to the shooting and the attempted repeal.

612 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:56:30pm

re: #604 Rightwingconspirator

LOL.
BTW I watched all this bad TV lately. Including Kate Gosselin on Palins Alaska. What a spoiled brat Kate was. Sheesh. Most of the Alaska shows are good. Not Sarahs. The next one about the bush pilots looks awesome.

And the new Alaska State Troopers show...looks interesting.

The Sarah can go sit on it...

613 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:56:59pm

re: #594 Amory Blaine

I fear the flu shot because of all the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people who get it saying they get sick.

Meh...I've had the flu shot every year except last year when there were shortages. I never ever get sick from the shot. The shot can't actually make you sick with the flu since the virus in the vaccine is killed already. The inhalant form is an attenuated live virus that can give you the sniffles. I prefer the jab over sniffles.

614 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:57:00pm

re: #609 Gus 802

I hope we no longer see any more signs about "watering the tree of liberty" or "next time we come armed."

Can you imagine?? Me neither.

What a black day. So so so awful.

615 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:57:14pm

re: #594 Amory Blaine

I fear the flu shot because of all the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people who get it saying they get sick.

I've never had a flu shot in my life due to a crippling fear of needles. I've only recently been able to get blood drawn at all, and that was because the lab tech decided to use a butterfly needle and go through the back of my hand instead of a syringe in my arm.

616 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:57:34pm

re: #598 reine.de.tout

Missed it in October, I wanted to hold out for the nasal spray. The shot just kills my bicep, and work demands regular heavy lifting. But apparently the late 2010 batch of the nasal vaccine was recalled. I was foolishly holding out for the new batch. Dumb of me. Next time just deal with the aches.

617 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:57:40pm

re: #604 Rightwingconspirator

LOL.
BTW I watched all this bad TV lately. Including Kate Gosselin on Palins Alaska. What a spoiled brat Kate was. Sheesh. Most of the Alaska shows are good. Not Sarahs. The next one about the bush pilots looks awesome.

I wanted to be a bush pilot but my wife wouldn't stand for it.

618 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:57:54pm

re: #605 researchok

See this- Global Muslim Brotherhood Daily Report

Two things,
1. thank you - I was not aware of that publication. Now I am.
2. It reminds me why I'm an activist for Israel.

619 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:59:14pm

re: #607 Lidane

Pfft. She wouldn't care. The Harpy would still find something in that story to prove that Muslims are still evil.

Yes, but the more good news we can push into the mainstream, the less tempting her foul siren call is to others.

620 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 6:59:34pm

And Dragon_Lady is in da house.

621 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:00:05pm

re: #615 Lidane

I've never had a flu shot in my life due to a crippling fear of needles. I've only recently been able to get blood drawn at all, and that was because the lab tech decided to use a butterfly needle and go through the back of my hand instead of a syringe in my arm.

I like watching the needle go in and the blood fill the vial when I give blood. I find it interesting.

622 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:00:31pm

re: #618 eclectic infidel

Two things,
1. thank you - I was not aware of that publication. Now I am.
2. It reminds me why I'm an activist for Israel.

Yup.

No need to editorialize- their own words.

623 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:01:18pm

re: #621 b_sharp

I like watching the needle go in and the blood fill the vial when I give blood. I find it interesting.

I enjoy watching anything but.

624 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:01:26pm

re: #604 Rightwingconspirator

LOL.
BTW I watched all this bad TV lately. Including Kate Gosselin on Palins Alaska. What a spoiled brat Kate was. Sheesh. Most of the Alaska shows are good. Not Sarahs. The next one about the bush pilots looks awesome.

Now, why are you blaming the flu if you watched THAT?

625 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:01:46pm

re: #601 BryanS

Agreed. Imagine what a counter message something like this is to the message from an anti-muslim raving lunatic like Geller.

Only to people like us, sadly. Geller will either ignore this or claim the Muslims were there for intimidation. And her followers will believe her unless it gets enough coverage to get through their filtration systems.

626 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:02:34pm

re: #624 Floral Giraffe

Now, why are you blaming the flu if you watched THAT?

Different symptoms.

627 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:02:50pm

re: #625 Dark_Falcon

Only to people like us, sadly. Geller will either ignore this or claim the Muslims were there for intimidation. And her followers will believe her unless it gets enough coverage to get through their filtration systems.

True, but I'm thinking of putting out messages to keep their foul ranks from growing.

628 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:03:03pm

re: #618 eclectic infidel

Two things,
1. thank you - I was not aware of that publication. Now I am.
2. It reminds me why I'm an activist for Israel.

I'm just humming 'National Brotherhood Week' for some reason.

629 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:03:04pm

re: #624 Floral Giraffe

Well the flu did not give me nausea. I figured the show did that. LOL.

630 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:03:13pm

re: #621 b_sharp

I like watching the needle go in and the blood fill the vial when I give blood. I find it interesting.

I can't look at all. It gives me the creeps. The last time I got blood drawn, in December, I caught a small glimpse of the needle in the back of my hand. Ick. It freaked me out.

631 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:03:44pm

re: #608 Amory Blaine

I have had a few bad reactions in the past, they were annoying but nothing close to what a full blown case of the flue can do to a middle aged male smoker. Trust me, I skipped last year and paid the price, do yourself a favor and get the shot.

632 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:04:05pm

re: #611 Kilroy01

Of course they don't want to vote on the promised health care bill repeal.

The bill to the repeal the job-killing health care law and health care-related provisions in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010.

Which is joke in as it won't pass the Senate, but will be done to make the Tea Partier happy. But next week I can't image the media not trying to attach the Congresswoman's vote on Health Care directly to the shooting and the attempted repeal.

I am so pissed off that the GOP has re-labeled the health care bill as a job killing bill.

WTF? Just putting a current concern on something else.

Fools, whoever believes this.

633 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:04:44pm

Hmm. IPad appears to be a frustrating device to blog on.

634 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:05:12pm

re: #628 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm just humming 'National Brotherhood Week' for some reason.

And everybody hates the Jews...

(Its a line from the song)

635 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:05:31pm

re: #627 BryanS

True, but I'm thinking of putting out messages to keep their foul ranks from growing.

Sounds like a plan.

636 sagehen  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:05:40pm

re: #466 reine.de.tout

heh.

The point is, I find people who are so enamored of their guns that they have photos taken of themselves fondling the weapons, to be just strange.
No one else does that with their hobby, and that's what guns are (or should be), a hobby.

Other people most certainly *do* do that with their hobbies.

Car enthusiasts. Doll makers. Furries.

637 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:06:12pm

re: #632 Stanley Sea

They have to. They don't want to get shot.

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:06:33pm

Two things I'm seeing replicated on multiple websites is the KOS diary where the guy is bitching about Giffords not voting for Pelosi as minority leader, and the bulls-eye map that's just as bad as the cross-hairs map. (A slight variant of this on Palin's Facebook commentars insists that those are not cross-hairs, but surveyor's marks.)

639 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:06:37pm

re: #630 Lidane

I can't look at all. It gives me the creeps. The last time I got blood drawn, in December, I caught a small glimpse of the needle in the back of my hand. Ick. It freaked me out.

Some people are like that. Blood has never bothered me, and once I learned to ignore the pain, needles entering my skin have just become an interesting phenomenon.

640 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:07:08pm

re: #633 Rightwingconspirator

D_L is screaming?

641 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:07:30pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

Surveyor marks? Oh that is such bullshit.

642 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:08:07pm

re: #633 Rightwingconspirator

Hmm. IPad appears to be a frustrating device to blog on.

I have an iPad but it's still in it's box. I'm not sure if I should use it or sell it.

643 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:08:11pm

re: #640 Floral Giraffe

No but the language is not fit for children.

644 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:08:28pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

Two things I'm seeing replicated on multiple websites is the KOS diary where the guy is bitching about Giffords not voting for Pelosi as minority leader, and the bulls-eye map that's just as bad as the cross-hairs map. (A slight variant of this on Palin's Facebook commentars insists that those are not cross-hairs, but surveyor's marks.)

digging deep, they are.

645 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:08:51pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

Two things I'm seeing replicated on multiple websites is the KOS diary where the guy is bitching about Giffords not voting for Pelosi as minority leader, and the bulls-eye map that's just as bad as the cross-hairs map. (A slight variant of this on Palin's Facebook commentars insists that those are not cross-hairs, but surveyor's marks.)

Except surveying marks don't match the rhetoric of the message that accompanied the map.

646 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:09:12pm

re: #632 Stanley Sea

I am so pissed off that the GOP has re-labeled the health care bill as a job killing bill.

WTF? Just putting a current concern on something else.

Fools, whoever believes this.

Everyone knows this is just a show vote and at the moment having the word "Kill" in the title of the bill may not fly very well.

647 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:09:28pm

re: #627 BryanS

True, but I'm thinking of putting out messages to keep their foul ranks from growing.

I'm curious, what type of messages do you think would accomplish that?

648 efuseakay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:10:10pm

re: #642 b_sharp

I have an iPad but it's still in it's box. I'm not sure if I should use it or sell it.

Sell it before iPad 2 comes out. :)

649 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:11:11pm

re: #645 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Except surveying marks don't match the rhetoric of the message that accompanied the map.

Yah.. Palin doesn't like surveying because it uses math..

650 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:11:23pm

Hi all you Lizards out there! Just popped in for a bit since my resident sicky is havin so much fun. And I can empathize with the needle phobics out there, I've been one for most of my life. I've been treated like a human pincushion since I turned 2 years old and just seeing one on the boob tube gives me the creeps! *shudder*

651 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:11:47pm

re: #644 Stanley Sea

digging deep, they are.

We need to dig. It's relevant to find out what this guy's version of insanity is. Though ultimately he bears responsibility for his own actions.

652 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:12:09pm

re: #639 b_sharp

Some people are like that. Blood has never bothered me, and once I learned to ignore the pain, needles entering my skin have just become an interesting phenomenon.

Funny thing is, it's the needle that freaks me out, not the blood. Blood doesn't bother me, given that I'm a woman of child-bearing age. Needles in my skin, on the other hand? Yuck. Heh.

653 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:13:04pm

re: #640 Floral Giraffe

D_L is screaming?

Not quite but I'm getting there! How's it going pretty flower lady?

654 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:13:13pm

re: #648 efuseakay

Sell it before iPad 2 comes out. :)

Will it run flash do you know? I'm thinking of getting one for the wife (wink wink) but Im still on the fence.

655 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:14:00pm

Kind of strange that the Sheriff announced they have pictures of a 2nd guy at the scene who is not a shooter, but is suspicious enough to want to find the guy, but yet, he doesn't release a picture of the guy for the public's help. Is it possible this 50-something guy is well known to the Sheriff's office (a member of a local Tea Party chapter? A guess!) and they're protecting him? The Sheriff said the 2nd guy is not a shooter. Weird!

656 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:14:06pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

Two things I'm seeing replicated on multiple websites is the KOS diary where the guy is bitching about Giffords not voting for Pelosi as minority leader, and the bulls-eye map that's just as bad as the cross-hairs map. (A slight variant of this on Palin's Facebook commentars insists that those are not cross-hairs, but surveyor's marks.)

It's not just the cross-hairs it's the whole package deal we've been seeing since January of 2009. There's really no moral equivalency here and I don't think they'll be successful in constructing these strawmen. The fact remains that certain people in the political landscape have been way out of line for almost 2 years now and the chickens have come home to roost.

657 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:14:14pm

re: #652 Lidane

I find closing my eyes works wonders.
HATE the sounds at the dentists, though.
Maybe more than needles.

658 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:14:21pm

re: #654 Amory Blaine

Will it run flash do you know? I'm thinking of getting one for the wife (wink wink) but Im still on the fence.

Steve Jobs thinks Flash is the H1N1 of the internetz.

Short answer: no.

659 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:14:50pm

re: #648 efuseakay

Sell it before iPad 2 comes out. :)

There's an iPad 2 coming out?

I better sell.

660 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:15:04pm

re: #642 b_sharp

I have an iPad but it's still in it's box. I'm not sure if I should use it or sell it.

How many gigs is it? Mines the highest you can get, a 64gig. So far I love everything about it except bloging.

661 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:15:29pm

re: #653 Dragon_Lady

Good, lots in bloom! Hope you can get RWC sorted out soon.

662 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:15:31pm

re: #657 Floral Giraffe

I find closing my eyes works wonders.
HATE the sounds at the dentists, though.
Maybe more than needles.

My dentist has enough sense to drug me before he does any work that requires power tools. I take a Halcion the night before, then again an hour before I have to see him. At that point, I'm too stoned to care about the sounds, or much of anything else. ;)

663 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:16:31pm

re: #655 KayInMaine

If they were protecting him (unthinkable) no mention would have been made. It's still really early in the investigation. I suspect the captured bastard is singing away, giving up his partner. Or distracting the police with BS.

664 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:16:58pm

re: #652 Lidane

Funny thing is, it's the needle that freaks me out, not the blood. Blood doesn't bother me, given that I'm a woman of child-bearing age. Needles in my skin, on the other hand? Yuck. Heh.

You mean you don't pierce for fun?

665 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:17:09pm

re: #658 JasonA

Steve Jobs thinks Flash is the H1N1 of the internetz.

Short answer: no.

Ghaa that sux because all the other tablets Ive seen reviewed are anemic to say the least. It would be my first apple product.

666 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:17:38pm

re: #659 b_sharp

There's an iPad 2 coming out?

I better sell.

iPad 2? Are they gonna call it the "Maxi Pad" ha!

667 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:17:45pm

re: #663 Rightwingconspirator

If they were protecting him (unthinkable) no mention would have been made. It's still really early in the investigation. I suspect the captured bastard is singing away, giving up his partner. Or distracting the police with BS.

I wouldn't be surprised if this basketcase were eating his own poop right now.

668 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:17:56pm

re: #664 b_sharp

You mean you don't pierce for fun?

My ears aren't even pierced.

On the other hand, I have three small tattoos on my back. I think it's the visual proximity to the needles that gets me.

669 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:18:11pm

re: #663 Rightwingconspirator

If they were protecting him (unthinkable) no mention would have been made. It's still really early in the investigation. I suspect the captured bastard is singing away, giving up his partner. Or distracting the police with BS.

I'm siding on the BS rambling how he is fighting the system.

670 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:18:43pm

re: #657 Floral Giraffe

I find closing my eyes works wonders.
HATE the sounds at the dentists, though.
Maybe more than needles.

Ever see an atheist cross his index fingers to ward off evil? That's me when I'm forced to see the dentist.

671 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:18:52pm

Evening all.
I hope today's events are isolated, not the first domino, so to speak.

Folks like this do such things because they believe they may be a catalyst.

672 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:18:54pm

re: #632 Stanley Sea

I am so pissed off that the GOP has re-labeled the health care bill as a job killing bill.

WTF? Just putting a current concern on something else.

Fools, whoever believes this.

Have you seen the Huckabee commercial on the repeal drive? It's so full of bullshit and lies, it turns my stomach...

673 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:19:35pm

re: #661 Floral Giraffe

Good, lots in bloom! Hope you can get RWC sorted out soon.

Yeah me too, not only do I get to run to do his bidding but I'm still on 24hr call from my folks. *sigh*

674 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:19:53pm

re: #668 Lidane

My ears aren't even pierced.

On the other hand, I have three small tattoos on my back. I think it's the visual proximity to the needles that gets me.

Can't you get a shot on your gluteus maximus?

675 Kragar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:20:04pm
676 srjh  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:20:08pm

Here's an eerie twist to the tragedy - the 9-year-old killed was featured in the book "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."

[Link: twitter.com...]

677 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:20:22pm

re: #660 Dragon_Lady

How many gigs is it? Mines the highest you can get, a 64gig. So far I love everything about it except bloging.

I think it's only 16G. Seems a bit small when compared to real computers.

678 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:20:36pm

re: #676 srjh

Here's an eerie twist to the tragedy - the 9-year-old killed was featured in the book "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."

[Link: twitter.com...]

Ugh.

679 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:20:54pm

Pass the tissues.

680 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:21:02pm

re: #671 Soap_Man

Evening all.
I hope today's events are isolated, not the first domino, so to speak.

Folks like this do such things because they believe they may be a catalyst.

It won't be a catalyst. When this sort of thing occurs, it is universally condemned. This loon will be denounced, not held up as an example.

681 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:23:25pm

OT, but these guys just came up on my iPod. I highly recommend them:

682 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:23:36pm

re: #676 srjh

OMG!

683 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:24:03pm

re: #677 b_sharp

I think it's only 16G. Seems a bit small when compared to real computers.

Sell it quick!!! I made darn sure that mine had plenty of memory and I did lots of research before bought this one, looked at all the touch screen hand helds and the 64gig iPad was the best one for the money.

684 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:24:04pm

re: #674 Amory Blaine

I'm sure I could. I can always ask my gyno then next time I see her.

685 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:24:18pm

Here's the shooter's youtube vids if they haven't already been posted here:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

686 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:24:39pm

re: #655 KayInMaine

Kind of strange that the Sheriff announced they have pictures of a 2nd guy at the scene who is not a shooter, but is suspicious enough to want to find the guy, but yet, he doesn't release a picture of the guy for the public's help. Is it possible this 50-something guy is well known to the Sheriff's office (a member of a local Tea Party chapter? A guess!) and they're protecting him? The Sheriff said the 2nd guy is not a shooter. Weird!

Apparently, releasing any of his identity would compromise the investigation. I don't know the reason.

Why would the Sheriff protect criminals and then turn around and make such a strong condemnation of his own state? He was against the immigration law, also.

[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

In Arizona, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who has been a cop for 52 years, says it will definitely lead to racial profiling. He told local TV station KGUN9 that the law is “racist,” “digusting,” and “unnecessary,” and he won’t enforce it.

687 ozbloke  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:24:49pm

re: #676 srjh

Here's an eerie twist to the tragedy - the 9-year-old killed was featured in the book "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."

[Link: twitter.com...]

Very very sad.

688 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:24:57pm

re: #632 Stanley Sea

I am so pissed off that the GOP has re-labeled the health care bill as a job killing bill.

WTF? Just putting a current concern on something else.

Fools, whoever believes this.


Especially since HCR seems to be working.
[Link: blogs.forbes.com...]

689 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:25:44pm

Apparently Giffords and another Congressman from AZ had written a letter of some sort, asking for the Ninth Circuit to extend trial deadlines. There's some speculation Judge Roll may have dropped by the rally to thank her.

The last time a federal judge was murdered was 1989. Robert Vance. Killed by white supremacists.

690 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:26:04pm

re: #668 Lidane

My ears aren't even pierced.

On the other hand, I have three small tattoos on my back. I think it's the visual proximity to the needles that gets me.

My left ear is pierced twice but I haven't worn anything for a few years. I've considered a tattoo, but I'm not sure where and what to get. I shave my head so I've considered a cephalopod on my neck and the back of my head, or a spider on the side of my neck.

I'd get a full body tattoo of myself only taller but I couldn't afford it.

691 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:26:49pm

re: #676 srjh

Here's an eerie twist to the tragedy - the 9-year-old killed was featured in the book "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."

[Link: twitter.com...]

Gggghhhhaah.

692 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:27:10pm

re: #688 CarleeCork

Especially since HCR seems to be working.
[Link: blogs.forbes.com...]

Wow coming from Forbes is intriguing.

693 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:29:20pm

(KORD)
Sheriff says shooter is "disturbed"..

No shit..

694 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:29:20pm

re: #680 Dark_Falcon

It won't be a catalyst. When this sort of thing occurs, it is universally condemned. This loon will be denounced, not held up as an example.

I know. But remember when that fellow crashed his plane into the IRS building. It wasn't long before a Facebook page was built in his "honor".

695 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:29:25pm

re: #686 marjoriemoon

Apparently, releasing any of his identity would compromise the investigation. I don't know the reason.

Why would the Sheriff protect criminals and then turn around and make such a strong condemnation of his own state? He was against the immigration law, also.

[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

There could be more involved parties out there, and they don't want them to know they're on the radar. They may have information they're sitting on until they have a chance to interrogate this guy. They may believe he acting without knowing what the shooter planned.

Lots of possibilities at this stage of an investigation.

696 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:29:27pm

re: #686 marjoriemoon

Yeah, I was a little confused as to why he would condemn today's actions and then not release a picture of the other suspect. Maybe the Sheriff is toying with the guy to get him to come forward? Could be. I honestly don't know.

I've been so sickened today by these shootings today I can't even think straight. :(

697 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:30:45pm

re: #683 Dragon_Lady

Sell it quick!!! I made darn sure that mine had plenty of memory and I did lots of research before bought this one, looked at all the touch screen hand helds and the 64gig iPad was the best one for the money.

I really don't need it, but I like the touch screen. I have an Android phone with a touch screen, my wife has an iPod Touch, and I have two notebooks. I really can't justify owning an iPad, but I'm a sucker for technogadgets.

698 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:30:52pm

This is her. I'm pretty sure.

Christina Taylor

699 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:31:11pm

re: #696 KayInMaine

Yeah, I was a little confused as to why he would condemn today's actions and then not release a picture of the other suspect. Maybe the Sheriff is toying with the guy to get him to come forward? Could be. I honestly don't know.

I've been so sickened today by these shootings today I can't even think straight. :(

I think whatever the sheriff is doing, we can assume he's not doing it for the benefit of the suspect.

700 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:32:02pm

re: #699 SanFranciscoZionist

I think whatever the sheriff is doing, we can assume he's not doing it for the benefit of the suspect.

DING DING DING!

701 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:32:12pm

re: #698 Gus 802

This is her. I'm pretty sure.

Christina Taylor

Also killed was 9-year-old Christina Taylor Green of Tucson.

A neighbor was going to the Giffords event and invited Christina along because she thought she would enjoy it, said her uncle, Greg Segalini.

Christina had just been elected to the student council at her school. The event, held outside a Safeway supermarket north of Tucson, was an opportunity for constituents to meet Giffords and talk about any concerns they had related to the federal government.

"The next thing you know this happened. How do you prepare for something like this. My little niece got killed-took one on the chest and she is dead," Segalini said outside the girl's house.

Christina was involved in many activities, from ballet to baseball, Segalini said.

"She was real special and real sweet," Segalini said.

[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

702 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:32:15pm

re: #694 Soap_Man

I know. But remember when that fellow crashed his plane into the IRS building. It wasn't long before a Facebook page was built in his "honor".

He still didn't get much traction. This guy won't get any, either.

703 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:32:30pm

re: #696 KayInMaine

Yeah, I was a little confused as to why he would condemn today's actions and then not release a picture of the other suspect. Maybe the Sheriff is toying with the guy to get him to come forward? Could be. I honestly don't know.

I've been so sickened today by these shootings today I can't even think straight. :(

Typically, I like reading comment sections on news stories. Not today though. I'm scared of what I might see.

704 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:32:34pm

re: #690 b_sharp

My left ear is pierced twice but I haven't worn anything for a few years. I've considered a tattoo, but I'm not sure where and what to get. I shave my head so I've considered a cephalopod on my neck and the back of my head, or a spider on the side of my neck.

I'd get a full body tattoo of myself only taller but I couldn't afford it.

I have my ears pierced, the right one has four holes, the left has two. Made darn sure no needle was in sight when I had them done. Piercing gun is the only way for a needle phob do get it done. I bight the nausea bullet when it comes to flu shots, can't afford to get sick. You normal healthy people can get over flu and colds relatively quickly, me? Most times it's a month of flu and sever a
Miserable weeks of cold. Auto immune diseases suck the big one when it comes to being sick! :-p

705 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:32:37pm

re: #688 CarleeCork

Especially since HCR seems to be working.
[Link: blogs.forbes.com...]

I think conservatives can embrace a tax credit to small businesses to help them afford offering employees health insurance . To say HCR is working because one particular provision was effective is a bit premature. It's the subsidized exchanges and tax incentives to remove coverage if you have more than 50 employees that have not yet kicked in. Once that part kicks in, I think we can better judge how HCR is working.

706 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:33:15pm

re: #608 Amory Blaine

So it is/was possible to get sick from the flu shot?

It WAS.
Not anymore.

707 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:33:31pm

re: #700 Floral Giraffe

I'll give a dingy to that one too!

708 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:33:47pm

Wapo.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

"We're not convinced he acted alone".

709 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:34:16pm

re: #704 Dragon_Lady

I have my ears pierced, the right one has four holes, the left has two. Made darn sure no needle was in sight when I had them done. Piercing gun is the only way for a needle phob do get it done. I bight the nausea bullet when it comes to flu shots, can't afford to get sick. You normal healthy people can get over flu and colds relatively quickly, me? Most times it's a month of flu and sever a
Miserable weeks of cold. Auto immune diseases suck the big one when it comes to being sick! :-p

Yep.
I get a cold - and then secondary bacterial infections, and then it's a month of misery, antibiotics and prednisone.
Hate it.

710 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:34:41pm

Olbermann has a Special Comment about the shooting tonight. He even mentions his own mistakes and his own heated rhetoric, too:

711 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:35:05pm

re: #676 srjh

Here's an eerie twist to the tragedy - the 9-year-old killed was featured in the book "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."

[Link: twitter.com...]

That's sad on so many levels.

712 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:35:21pm

re: #697 b_sharp

I really don't need it, but I like the touch screen. I have an Android phone with a touch screen, my wife has an iPod Touch, and I have two notebooks. I really can't justify owning an iPad, but I'm a sucker for technogadgets.

Hell, I am too.

713 Skandal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:35:46pm

re: #701 Gus 802

The 9-year-old who was shot dead today at the Giffords event was featured in a book “Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11.

714 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:35:47pm

re: #697 b_sharp

I really don't need it, but I like the touch screen. I have an Android phone with a touch screen, my wife has an iPod Touch, and I have two notebooks. I really can't justify owning an iPad, but I'm a sucker for technogadgets.

Yeah, I understand that only too well. I got an iPod for Xmas last year, it was another in a long line of pda's. Cell phone, iPad,iPod, and any other gadget I can get my hands on! Love em' all'

715 avanti  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:35:55pm

re: #660 Dragon_Lady

How many gigs is it? Mines the highest you can get, a 64gig. So far I love everything about it except bloging.

I'm waiting for the upcoming Ipad killer running the Google Android operating system:
Android.

716 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:36:11pm

re: #706 reine.de.tout

It WAS.
Not anymore.

My old boss got a flu shot, felt sick after (mild, flu-like symptoms).

Although I bet it was the classic placebo effect.

717 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:36:12pm

re: #703 Soap_Man

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! Most days I'm firm to the ground like a tree. Days like today? Shaking like a leaf! I'm not scared of these guys (the shooters), but what I am scared of (the Sheriff touched upon it earlier) is this sort of thing will make it so our democracy will fail: reasonable people won't run for office in the future out of fear of being shot. Makes me cringe at the thought of our nation changing into a Banana Republic!

718 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:36:34pm

re: #689 SanFranciscoZionist

But not the last time that federal judges have been threatened. Just last year, Hal Turner was convicted of threatening violence against three federal court justices on the 7th Circuit (guilty after two prior mistrials).

719 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:36:34pm

This sounds like good news, from linky at #708

In brief public remarks, President Obama said he had dispatched F.B.I. director Robert Mueller to the scene.
720 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:36:48pm

re: #695 SanFranciscoZionist

There could be more involved parties out there, and they don't want them to know they're on the radar. They may have information they're sitting on until they have a chance to interrogate this guy. They may believe he acting without knowing what the shooter planned.

Lots of possibilities at this stage of an investigation.

Exactly. Let them do their job.

This guy, Jared, had problems, they seem to say. He apparently (allegedly?) tried to enlist and was rejected for reasons they aren't divulging and has had social-type problems in school.

But I agree with the sheriff and others, the rhetoric, images, all of it, gets to these unstable people until they do something crazy. That and the gun laws in Arizona are liberal. Couple that with racial tension, it's just a terrible mix.

721 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:36:57pm

re: #713 Skandal

The 9-year-old who was shot dead today at the Giffords event was featured in a book “Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11.

I know. This is her.

722 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:37:19pm

re: #687 ozbloke

Very very sad.

THIS WHOLE THING IS BEYOND SAD.

723 KayInMaine  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:37:53pm

re: #721 Gus 802

She's so darling!

724 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:38:40pm

re: #704 Dragon_Lady

I have my ears pierced, the right one has four holes, the left has two. Made darn sure no needle was in sight when I had them done. Piercing gun is the only way for a needle phob do get it done. I bight the nausea bullet when it comes to flu shots, can't afford to get sick. You normal healthy people can get over flu and colds relatively quickly, me? Most times it's a month of flu and sever a
Miserable weeks of cold. Auto immune diseases suck the big one when it comes to being sick! :-p

Sorry to hear that. Auto immune is not something to take lightly. Make sure RWC takes care of you.

725 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:40:00pm

re: #634 jamesfirecat

And everybody hates the Jews...

(Its a line from the song)


I remember hearing that song played a lot on a syndicated radio show in the late sixties, that also played, They're coming to take me away, ha ha.

All I remember about the show was that it was syndicated from California, played a lot of strange stuff, and was broadcast late Sunday evening in Detroit. It might be fun to do some time travel back to the sixties and hear some of that old late night FM programs.

It might be an interesting distraction to find the name of the program and see if any old broadcasts still exist.

726 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:40:13pm

re: #703 Soap_Man

Typically, I like reading comment sections on news stories. Not today though. I'm scared of what I might see.

You're probably wise. I'm already glued.

M at Yahoo writes:

Let me start by saying I'm republican - but this is NOT the way to bring about change. Nor are protests, other acts of violence, etc. The ballot box is where change is made. If you don't like what the leaders of our country are doing, then change the leadership at the ballot box. Too bad nobody else there had a gun to shoot the shooter!

Let's just say that not everyone posting over there is quite this rational. I find it fascinating though, that s/he feels s/he has to begin with "I'm Republican". Seriously? You have to present credentials now to be against shooting politicians?

727 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:41:16pm

re: #710 Lidane

Olbermann has a Special Comment about the shooting tonight. He even mentions his own mistakes and his own heated rhetoric, too:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Can't wait to hear Rush, Hannity and Beck say something similar.

I'm waiting..

728 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:41:26pm

re: #709 reine.de.tout

Yep.
I get a cold - and then secondary bacterial infections, and then it's a month of misery, antibiotics and prednisone.
Hate it.

Gets so bad I become a real bitch and start whining about being sick of being sick! That's why I can empathize with rwc when he's down with a bug. At least I managed to get my flu shot before he got sick. Lord only knows what would have happened if he'd have brought the bug home to me and I had'nt gotten the blasted shot. Lord I hate those things, but it's necessary evil on my part.

729 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:42:15pm

re: #717 KayInMaine

Have some faith.Our people are better than that. In fact I'll be contacting a couple local congressmen to see if they might show up in public, with security in deliberate defiance of these killers.

730 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:42:25pm

re: #718 lawhawk

But not the last time that federal judges have been threatened. Just last year, Hal Turner was convicted of threatening violence against three federal court justices on the 7th Circuit (guilty after two prior mistrials).

Well, he sounds like a real sweetheart.

//Good GOD. Why do we even have a judiciary if people are going to go around saying things like "If they are allowed to get away with it by surviving..."?

731 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:42:30pm

re: #710 Lidane

Wow... Oberman, upding.

732 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:43:35pm

re: #725 Reginald Perrin

They've got that nice white cell, waiting for you!
///

733 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:43:36pm

re: #715 avanti

I'm waiting for the upcoming Ipad killer running the Google Android operating system:
Android.

Looked into that, too small. Only 7x5" and I wanted something bigger to look at, more like an actual computer. Darn the spell checker on this thing, won't let me make intentional spelling errors.

734 deadletterboy  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:44:16pm

Sheriff Dupnik of Arizona isn't afraid to point the finger where it needs to go.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

735 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:44:26pm

re: #728 Dragon_Lady

You HAVE to do it, when you're dealing with elders.

736 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:44:33pm

re: #726 SanFranciscoZionist

You're probably wise. I'm already glued.

M at Yahoo writes:

Let me start by saying I'm republican - but this is NOT the way to bring about change. Nor are protests, other acts of violence, etc. The ballot box is where change is made. If you don't like what the leaders of our country are doing, then change the leadership at the ballot box. Too bad nobody else there had a gun to shoot the shooter!

Let's just say that not everyone posting over there is quite this rational. I find it fascinating though, that s/he feels s/he has to begin with "I'm Republican". Seriously? You have to present credentials now to be against shooting politicians?

hehe I think her point is, "See, I'm a Republican and I'm rational." Although arming everyone to the teeth is not the way to go. In fact, we're looking at a seriously unstable man with a criminal record obtaining a very dangerous weapon. How does that happen?

737 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:46:12pm

re: #705 BryanS
I've been covered by health insurance for over ten years through my husband's employer and I've seen premiums rise, deductibles rise, co-pays rise and prescription costs rise. Something has to be done to get a handle on healthcare costs. Screaming "socialism" isn't the answer. What President Obama has implemented is a start and can be fine tuned. The U.S. cannot compete financially with other countries that furnish heathcare for their citizens.

738 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:47:11pm

In fact, maybe someone can enlighten me. Show me a scenario where someone stood up and said, "Thank God that person had a gun or I would have been x-x-x-x" (whatever it may be).

739 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:47:40pm

re: #721 Gus 802

I know. This is her.

Ooooh, what a doll baby, such a tragedy. My heart bleeds for her family and the families of the other victims. I hope they string him up by his nether region!!! Sick bastard!!!

740 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:47:40pm

re: #726 SanFranciscoZionist

You're probably wise. I'm already glued.

M at Yahoo writes:

Let me start by saying I'm republican - but this is NOT the way to bring about change. Nor are protests, other acts of violence, etc. The ballot box is where change is made. If you don't like what the leaders of our country are doing, then change the leadership at the ballot box. Too bad nobody else there had a gun to shoot the shooter!

Let's just say that not everyone posting over there is quite this rational. I find it fascinating though, that s/he feels s/he has to begin with "I'm Republican". Seriously? You have to present credentials now to be against shooting politicians?

I think he was just trying to make clear that killings like this are not something the GOP supports.

741 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:48:38pm

If you let them scare you, then they have won.
Witness: Gunman 'was going for the congresswoman' [Link: azstarnet.com...] ews/local/crime/article_76bc3c24-1b79- 11e0-b748-001cc4c002e0.html

Don't tell me there aren't any heroes left.
From the link:

The weapon “sounded like a handgun.” He did not hear the shooter speak while firing; from behind a pillar, Villec heard someone cry, “Get down.” Villec did not see two men tackle the gunman, though spoke with one of the men afterward. That tackler, he said, was next in line to greet Giffords.

Two men tackled him & brought him down. One shooter, two tacklers.
Good odds. Hang in there.

742 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:48:46pm

re: #737 CarleeCork

I've been covered by health insurance for over ten years through my husband's employer and I've seen premiums rise, deductibles rise, co-pays rise and prescription costs rise. Something has to be done to get a handle on healthcare costs. Screaming "socialism" isn't the answer. What President Obama has implemented is a start and can be fine tuned. The U.S. cannot compete financially with other countries that furnish heathcare for their citizens.

But hardly anything was done about "costs", while plenty will be done about price. The way health care is made affordable in this bill is by subsidizing it. The same costs, and pressures pushing them up, are still there.

743 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:48:58pm

re: #740 Dark_Falcon

I think he was just trying to make clear that killings like this are not something the GOP supports.

and the subtext is of course, that the GOP's rhetoric has gotten so bad that a reasonable Republican needs to specifically remind people they don't approve of an assassination attempt against a Democrat.

744 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:49:10pm

re: #738 marjoriemoon

Took me about 5 seconds to find this one
[Link: www.palmbeachpost.com...]

PALM BAY — It took 62-year-old Ruben Torres a New York minute to become a Palm Bay hero.
That was the amount of time it took Thursday for the off-duty security guard to spot a suspected bank robber in the lobby of the Space Coast Credit Union, retrieve his gun, and hold the bandit until patrol officers arrived.
"I guess it's the New Yorker in me," Torres said about his decision to get involved.
Police credit Torres -- who has a concealed-weapons permit -- with thwarting the bank robbery at the credit union at 152 Malabar Road.
"Torres' actions, while not encouraged, are appreciated and were very courageous," Lt. Mark Renkens said. "He took action to stop a crime in progress, and fortunately made a positive difference in the outcome."

745 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:50:06pm

re: #738 marjoriemoon

In fact, maybe someone can enlighten me. Show me a scenario where someone stood up and said, "Thank God that person had a gun or I would have been x-x-x-x" (whatever it may be).

More than one mass shooting has been stopped by an armed citizen. and even in this case, it was event attendees tackling the shooter that ended the rampage.

746 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:50:14pm

re: #738 marjoriemoon

In fact, maybe someone can enlighten me. Show me a scenario where someone stood up and said, "Thank God that person had a gun or I would have been x-x-x-x" (whatever it may be).

Well, that recent schoolboard meeting shootout--I'm pretty sure the board was glad that the one lady with her swinging purse wasn't the last line of defense :)

747 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:50:18pm

re: #740 Dark_Falcon

I think he was just trying to make clear that killings like this are not something the GOP supports.

That's kind of my point. Under normal circumstances, a person would just ASSUME that the GOP is not going to support shooting members of Congress. What the hell have we come to?

748 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:51:08pm

re: #744 Rightwingconspirator

I suspect she meant "average-guy-with-a-gun" and not someone who is a guard or a cop for a living

749 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:51:23pm

re: #743 WindUpBird

and the subtext is of course, that the GOP's rhetoric has gotten so bad that a reasonable Republican needs to specifically remind people they don't approve of an assassination attempt against a Democrat.

Which is sad, honestly. It's pathetic that in 2011 we have to even have that conversation, or that our politics is that bad that it's even necessary.

750 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:51:45pm

re: #747 SanFranciscoZionist

A scary place. And likely to continue for a while.
*SIGH*

751 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52:08pm

re: #725 Reginald Perrin

I remember hearing that song played a lot on a syndicated radio show in the late sixties, that also played, They're coming to take me away, ha ha.


[Video]All I remember about the show was that it was syndicated from California, played a lot of strange stuff, and was broadcast late Sunday evening in Detroit. It might be fun to do some time travel back to the sixties and hear some of that old late night FM programs.

It might be an interesting distraction to find the name of the program and see if any old broadcasts still exist.

Dr. Demento?

752 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52:12pm

I'm no fan of Olberman but rose to the occasion with that monologue, spot on.

753 qubit2020  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52:21pm

So, will Palin, Rush, Hannity et al dial back the rhetoric about second amendment solutions and socialists taking over America?
...Nah

754 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52:28pm

re: #748 WindUpBird

#
American with gun stops robbery - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Aug 19, 2006 ... View Full Version : American with gun stops robbery ... INDIANAPOLIS - A customer carrying a gun foiled a man who attempted to rob a ...
www.bullshido.net/forums/sitemap/index.php/t-45441.html - Cached
#
Customer pulls gun, stops robbery - 13 WTHR
Jan 14, 2008 ... 13 WTHRCustomer pulls gun, stops robbery. Member Center: .... A man police later identified as Dwain Smith reportedly ran into the store ...
www.wthr.com/story/7565465/customer-pulls-gun-stops-robbery?... - Cached
#
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
6 posts - Last post: Jan 4, 2008
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold Held suspect at grocery store ... man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun on a store employee." ...
www.firearmstalk.com/.../shopper-pulls-gun-stops-robbery-cold-2905/ - Cached

755 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52:36pm

And from Denny, because I cannot resist:

YOU LIBERAL IDIOTS ARE JUST THAT! IDIOTS!!! HIS FAVORITE BOOK WERE THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO AND THE ONE BY HITLER. I CANT SPELL IT BUT YOU KNOW THE ONE. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING RIGHT OR LEFT! HE WAS IN HIS OWN LITTLE WORD. AN ABSOLUTE NUTCASE!!!

Yes, Denny. I know the one.

756 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:52:40pm

Goodnight scaly ones. I'm off to play with my Kindle.

757 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:53:32pm

re: #747 SanFranciscoZionist

That's kind of my point. Under normal circumstances, a person would just ASSUME that the GOP is not going to support shooting members of Congress. What the hell have we come to?

Earlier today, I was helping my uncle re-tile his kitchen. He's a Republican, early-60s. We were listening to the radio while working.

I said: "Some crazies out there, huh?
Him: "More than I've ever seen in my life."

758 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:54:09pm

re: #748 WindUpBird

Yea, I did actually, but I'll give it to him. I've been enlightened.

Still doesn't come close to the number of deaths by automatic or semi-auto weapons by people with bad intent who shouldn't have them.

759 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:54:22pm

re: #756 b_sharp

Goodnight scaly ones. I'm off to play with my Kindle.

Got one for the GF for Christmas. Went over pretty well.

760 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:54:31pm

re: #755 SanFranciscoZionist

ahahaha the one by hitler

like he's penning romance novels on the side

761 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55:17pm

On a lighter note, there is a pretty exciting football game going on right now.

762 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55:30pm

re: #726 SanFranciscoZionist

You're probably wise. I'm already glued.

M at Yahoo writes:

Let me start by saying I'm republican - but this is NOT the way to bring about change. Nor are protests, other acts of violence, etc. The ballot box is where change is made. If you don't like what the leaders of our country are doing, then change the leadership at the ballot box. Too bad nobody else there had a gun to shoot the shooter!

Let's just say that not everyone posting over there is quite this rational. I find it fascinating though, that s/he feels s/he has to begin with "I'm Republican". Seriously? You have to present credentials now to be against shooting politicians?

My research into what I refer to as the Astro-turf Spin Machine, makes me cynical enough to believe that if you see a lot of comments phrased that way, it might be at the behest of the aforementioned, ATSM.

That said, personally, I would hope that the events of today will have a sobering effect on the majority of Conservatives who don't condone violence or violent rhetoric, but have kept silent because of party loyalty.

763 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55:39pm

re: #742 BryanS

But hardly anything was done about "costs", while plenty will be done about price. The way health care is made affordable in this bill is by subsidizing it. The same costs, and pressures pushing them up, are still there.


I thought everything was about supply and demand? I would rather subsidize healthcare early than later. Every time someone visits an E.R. we are subsidizing their healthcare costs.

764 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55:41pm

re: #760 WindUpBird

ahahaha the one by hitler

like he's penning romance novels on the side

Saddam did.

765 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55:41pm

re: #755 SanFranciscoZionist

And from Denny, because I cannot resist:

YOU LIBERAL IDIOTS ARE JUST THAT! IDIOTS!!! HIS FAVORITE BOOK WERE THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO AND THE ONE BY HITLER. I CANT SPELL IT BUT YOU KNOW THE ONE. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING RIGHT OR LEFT! HE WAS IN HIS OWN LITTLE WORD. AN ABSOLUTE NUTCASE!!!

Yes, Denny. I know the one.

"I cant spell it . . . he was in his own little word"

hells bells.

766 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:55:42pm

re: #735 Floral Giraffe

You HAVE to do it, when you're dealing with elders.

*sigh*don't I know it. I don't dare skip it regardless, the last time I missed getting a flu shot I got the flu 5 times between august 1989 and january of 1990, don't think I had enough time healthy during those months to say I actually was healthy. The last bought lasted over six weeks and darn near landed me in the hospital. The doctor called me every day for two weeks, my boss was a real godsend let me tell you! He paid for all my medical care out of the companies expense account, even said he'd pay my hospital bill if it came to it. Best job I ever had, I still miss working for that company...

767 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:56:16pm

re: #765 reine.de.tout

"I cant spell it . . . he was in his own little word"

hells bells.

Another child left behind. =P

768 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:56:20pm

re: #765 reine.de.tout

"I cant spell it . . . he was in his own little word"

hells bells.

STOP RINGING MY DOOR BELL!!!!

769 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:56:23pm

re: #748 WindUpBird

And of course we have instances of people saving themselves. According to expert author Paxton Quigley, for HCI honcho, rapists fear guns more than about anything. Please read some of that.

770 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:56:24pm

re: #760 WindUpBird

ahahaha the one by hitler

like he's penning romance novels on the side

Spring time for Hitler?
///

771 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:56:56pm

re: #769 Rightwingconspirator

oh pimf
Former HCI honcho

772 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:57:05pm

re: #743 WindUpBird

and the subtext is of course, that the GOP's rhetoric has gotten so bad that a reasonable Republican needs to specifically remind people they don't approve of an assassination attempt against a Democrat.

It's bad, no doubt, but good on him for working to keep things sane.

773 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:57:19pm

re: #764 SanFranciscoZionist

Saddam did.

Isn't one of the NK fables about about Kim Jong Il that he writes best-selling novels?

774 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:57:43pm

re: #765 reine.de.tout

"I cant spell it . . . he was in his own little word"

hells bells.

I think Denny has been reading the comments at Yahoo for too long.

775 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:58:04pm

re: #773 Lidane

Isn't one of the NK fables about about Kim Jong Il that he writes best-selling novels?

And shot three hole-in-one's the first time he ever played golf.

An amazing guy, the dear leader!

776 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:58:33pm

There you have it. I know that changing over to the year to 2011 is just a number but already within the first week we're experiencing full throttle crazy.

777 Jadespring  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:59:17pm

re: #755 SanFranciscoZionist

And from Denny, because I cannot resist:

YOU LIBERAL IDIOTS ARE JUST THAT! IDIOTS!!! HIS FAVORITE BOOK WERE THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO AND THE ONE BY HITLER. I CANT SPELL IT BUT YOU KNOW THE ONE. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING RIGHT OR LEFT! HE WAS IN HIS OWN LITTLE WORD. AN ABSOLUTE NUTCASE!!!

Yes, Denny. I know the one.

Oh dear.

778 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 7:59:56pm

re: #738 marjoriemoon
Down the road a bit in Pearl, MS, ( suburb of Jackson) Joel Myrick, a high school ass't principal with a gun who took out a shooter with his own handgun, preventing a Columbine in the parking lot.

779 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:00:03pm

re: #774 SanFranciscoZionist

I think Denny has been reading the comments at Yahoo for too long.

*snort*
Probably.
Yet one more reason to love it here.

780 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:00:10pm

re: #758 marjoriemoon

Yea, I did actually, but I'll give it to him. I've been enlightened.

Still doesn't come close to the number of deaths by automatic or semi-auto weapons by people with bad intent who shouldn't have them.

I think that ship has sailed in this country, it's just way too easy to get guns, the culture is pro-gun in America, it's one of those levers by which republicans can be hypnotized into freaking out. it's a tribal identifier, it's political leverage. Even my very good friend who is very smart, was buying the NRA kookery about Obama commin' ta take yew gunzz away :P Eventually he realized he was listening to "friends" who were being wantonly manipulative, and after the election the "friends" sorta went full birther and showed their true colors :D

781 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:00:20pm

re: #761 Soap_Man

On a lighter note, there is a pretty exciting football game going on right now.

Indeed. Go Indy!

782 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:00:42pm

re: #764 SanFranciscoZionist

Saddam did.

we need to have like a book club of all the weird books written by leaders, like that Scooter Libby novel

783 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:00:56pm

re: #732 Floral Giraffe

They've got that nice white cell, waiting for you!
///

Waiting for me???

I am already in the padded room, haven't you heard of wireless?

Have you recently heard from the one whose name we shall not mention?

784 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:01:21pm

re: #773 Lidane

Isn't one of the NK fables about about Kim Jong Il that he writes best-selling novels?

haha knowing north korea that's probably true! BECAUSE IT'S MANDATORY TO PURCHASE THEM

785 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:01:57pm

re: #776 Gus 802

There you have it. I know that changing over to the year to 2011 is just a number but already within the first week we're experiencing full throttle crazy.

well, it's also a new congress, so that brings a little spice to the proceedings

786 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:02:08pm

re: #776 Gus 802
Haven't scanned the whole thread, but has Kos been properly chastised for posting ' Giffords is dead to me ' in a diary?
Evidently her crime was refusing to vote for Pelosi as Speaker.
Stop the Left Wing Hate Speech.//

787 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:02:36pm

re: #781 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Go Indy!

Oops. Heh.

788 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:02:54pm

re: #763 CarleeCork

I thought everything was about supply and demand? I would rather subsidize healthcare early than later. Every time someone visits an E.R. we are subsidizing their healthcare costs.

Right....what happens when you increase the supply of money available to purchase a particular product? The costs for that product goes up due to increased use of that product.

We did that in housing, and we got a housing bubble. House prices even now are still well above historical norms as a ratio of house price to household income.

We did that in education and have seen costs raise at a rate much higher than inflation. Even in the past two years where the price of goods have not easily been increased, the price of education continues to skyrocket.

Now we're going to do the same thing with health care. We're going to subsidize health care for the majority of the population. Increases in the cost of that care will be hidden in increased levels of taxes collected primarily by the better off. So it will be "affordable" while at the same time the costs will continue their fast increases. A good argument can be made that the third party payer system of health insurance likewise took economic decision making out of health decision by the consumer, and lead to runaway costs. If that argument is correct, the government program will make the problem even worse.

789 Skandal  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:02:57pm

re: #721 Gus 802

Thanks for the link.

790 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:03:01pm

re: #786 tradewind

Haven't scanned the whole thread, but has Kos been properly chastised for posting ' Giffords is dead to me ' in a diary?
Evidently her crime was refusing to vote for Pelosi as Speaker.
Stop the Left Wing Hate Speech.//

I have no idea. I'm not paying any attention to that angle. I'm not following any other blog than this one here.

791 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:03:17pm

re: #781 Dark_Falcon

No dice, Jets win 17-16.

792 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:03:18pm

re: #781 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Go Indy!

Well, both Super Bowl teams fell today.

793 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:03:22pm

re: #713 Skandal

The 9-year-old who was shot dead today at the Giffords event was featured in a book “Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11.

You know, somehow that hurts more than anything else I've heard today.

794 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:03:24pm

re: #784 WindUpBird

haha knowing north korea that's probably true! BECAUSE IT'S MANDATORY TO PURCHASE THEM

Mein Kampf was a best seller as well.

795 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:04:49pm

re: #788 BryanS

starve the beast, club for growth, Grover Norquist we know we know

796 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:05:20pm

re: #780 WindUpBird

It would be less of a problem if the left would publicly abandon gun control, which is a failure idea anyway. Place the blame where it belongs, on assholes who murder, not on a gun culture.

797 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:05:24pm

re: #786 tradewind

Haven't scanned the whole thread, but has Kos been properly chastised for posting ' Giffords is dead to me ' in a diary?
Evidently her crime was refusing to vote for Pelosi as Speaker.
Stop the Left Wing Hate Speech.//

KOS did not post that in a diary.
A member, one of what...100,000 people, posted that in their diary.

798 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:06:37pm

re: #795 WindUpBird

starve the beast, club for growth, Grover Norquist we know we know

Bah. Grover's inciting jihad in CPAC. Frank Gaffney tells me so:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

799 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:07:11pm

re: #748 WindUpBird

I suspect she meant "average-guy-with-a-gun" and not someone who is a guard or a cop for a living

You know WUB, if I didn't have a gun and know darn well how to use there would be absolutely no way I could ever defend myself! And personally there is no way in hell some SOB is ever gonna rape me, beat me or rob me as long as I live! You may not like guns but there's a very good reason for their existence, they're for those of us who are unable to defend ourselves another way to make darn sure the wolves of our species don't make the mistake of thinking I'm a damned sheep!

800 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:07:18pm

re: #797 webevintage

KOS did not post that in a diary.
A member, one of what...100,000 people, posted that in their diary.

The magic balance fairy says you are wrong.

801 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:07:27pm

re: #797 webevintage
Which is why I didn't say ' Markos Moulitsas' posted it .
But thanks for that clarification.

802 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:07:43pm

re: #796 Dark_Falcon

It would be less of a problem if the left would publicly abandon gun control, which is a failure idea anyway. Place the blame where it belongs, on assholes who murder, not on a gun culture.

Well, they actually often do, but the GOP and the NRA continue to lie through their teeth about Democratic candidates and their positions on gun control. I've never seen so much rank nonsense in my life about supposed mysterious gun control plans as when Obama was elected. So here we are!

803 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:08:06pm

re: #799 Dragon_Lady

You know WUB, if I didn't have a gun and know darn well how to use there would be absolutely no way I could ever defend myself! And personally there is no way in hell some SOB is ever gonna rape me, beat me or rob me as long as I live! You may not like guns but there's a very good reason for their existence, they're for those of us who are unable to defend ourselves another way to make darn sure the wolves of our species don't make the mistake of thinking I'm a damned sheep!

Ding. Ding. Ding.

804 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:08:51pm

re: #780 WindUpBird

I think that ship has sailed in this country, it's just way too easy to get guns, the culture is pro-gun in America, it's one of those levers by which republicans can be hypnotized into freaking out. it's a tribal identifier, it's political leverage. Even my very good friend who is very smart, was buying the NRA kookery about Obama commin' ta take yew gunzz away :P Eventually he realized he was listening to "friends" who were being wantonly manipulative, and after the election the "friends" sorta went full birther and showed their true colors :D

The funny thing about that is they said the same thing about Clinton. They do it to all Democrats.

But this isn't a politicized issue... no.... *sigh*

805 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:08:51pm

re: #796 Dark_Falcon

It would be less of a problem if the left would publicly abandon gun control, which is a failure idea anyway. Place the blame where it belongs, on assholes who murder, not on a gun culture.

Thank you my friend for helping me to make my point!

806 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:09:32pm

re: #803 Soap_Man

BTW, she took that training so seriously so is an instructor. Defensive shooting.Became a credible competitor.

807 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:09:32pm

re: #776 Gus 802
...and here I thought we had 'til what... April of 2012?//

808 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:09:36pm

Comparing 'Giffords is dead to me' to RW calls to violence is a false equivalence.

809 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:10:36pm

Come on now. Straining to find a Tu Quoque. Let's face it. Certain elements of the Tea Party and infamous opinionators need to man up and admit that they've gotten carried away with the "next time we're coming with guns!" rhetoric.

810 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:11:31pm

re: #800 Reginald Perrin
No sweat...the Magical Dinging Fairy's on it./

811 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:12:17pm

re: #806 Rightwingconspirator

BTW, she took that training so seriously so is an instructor. Defensive shooting.Became a credible competitor.

I have never owned a gun. I have never fired a gun. Hell, I've never held a gun.

The primary reason is that I believe any gun owner has the responsibility to learn it. Take classes. Go to the range.

I simply do not have the time to be a responsible gun owner. But good on those who do.

812 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:12:39pm

re: #799 Dragon_Lady

You know WUB, if I didn't have a gun and know darn well how to use there would be absolutely no way I could ever defend myself! And personally there is no way in hell some SOB is ever gonna rape me, beat me or rob me as long as I live! You may not like guns but there's a very good reason for their existence, they're for those of us who are unable to defend ourselves another way to make darn sure the wolves of our species don't make the mistake of thinking I'm a damned sheep!

Um you haven't really been reading what I've been writing, have you?

I actually own guns. We have a half-taken apart SKS and a Mosin-Nagant that my partner is fiddling with. I don't use them for self defense, and I also don't have any problem with them being used for self defense. I think a lot of people are somewhat ambitious about their chances of self-defense with a gun, honestly. I think there's a psychological power-fantasy aspect to gun ownership. i feel intensely unconfortable in most gun stores for this reason. But I'm not opposed to guns. I'm not opposed to CC permits.

I'm not sure where you got me clarifying marjorie's comment with "I hate guns". That's silly.

See, DarkFalcon? This is what i'm speaking of. Right here in this thread, my position has magically creeped against my will into "I hate guns" territory. it's almost like there's programming going on, like I triggered a bunch of talking points.

813 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:13:13pm

re: #788 BryanS

Right...what happens when you increase the supply of money available to purchase a particular product? The costs for that product goes up due to increased use of that product.

We did that in housing, and we got a housing bubble. House prices even now are still well above historical norms as a ratio of house price to household income.

We did that in education and have seen costs raise at a rate much higher than inflation. Even in the past two years where the price of goods have not easily been increased, the price of education continues to skyrocket.

Now we're going to do the same thing with health care. We're going to subsidize health care for the majority of the population. Increases in the cost of that care will be hidden in increased levels of taxes collected primarily by the better off. So it will be "affordable" while at the same time the costs will continue their fast increases. A good argument can be made that the third party payer system of health insurance likewise took economic decision making out of health decision by the consumer, and lead to runaway costs. If that argument is correct, the government program will make the problem even worse.

Good post and fine argument.

814 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:13:16pm

re: #780 WindUpBird

Too easy? Maybe if you steal it. In California it's not that easy. Lots of regulations. Question-Are you willing to take a look at Paxton Quigleys take on the matter? She is a former Hand Gun Control board member.

815 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:13:23pm

re: #809 Gus 802

Come on now. Straining to find a Tu Quoque. Let's face it. Certain elements of the Tea Party and infamous opinionators need to man up and admit that they've gotten carried away with the "next time we're coming with guns!" rhetoric.

It's not gonna happen. Within a week of a Beck fan being arrested on his way to assasinate people at the Tides foundation Beck was back with Tides/Soros/Acorn conspiracies again. I don't know what it's going to take to get the wingnuts to wake up but I'm afraid we ain't even close yet.

816 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:13:27pm

re: #804 marjoriemoon

The funny thing about that is they said the same thing about Clinton. They do it to all Democrats.

But this isn't a politicized issue... no... *sigh*

No! it's just HONEST TA GAWD PATRIOTS

lol.

it's just a lever. it's a tool by which you keep voters docile. THEY GON TAKE YER GUNZ WAY

817 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:13:39pm

re: #808 BigPapa
It's no equivalence at all.
Then again, there's nothing at all to link this shooting to right wing protest.
(But keep watching..... something might turn up. Maybe that mysterious fifty-year old guy they're looking for shows promise).

818 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:14:07pm

re: #814 Rightwingconspirator

Too easy? Maybe if you steal it. In California it's not that easy. Lots of regulations. Question-Are you willing to take a look at Paxton Quigleys take on the matter? She is a former Hand Gun Control board member.

I mean, illegally. it's easy to get a gun illegally in America. Those are just facts.

819 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:14:07pm

Whenever someone says Magical Balance Fairy I picture Col. Hunter Gathers from The Venture Brothers in a tutu.

820 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:14:37pm

re: #812 WindUpBird


"I think there's a psychological power-fantasy aspect to gun ownership"

You hurt your own point right there.

821 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:14:38pm

re: #818 WindUpBird

I mean, illegally. it's easy to get a gun illegally in America. Those are just facts.

by the way, I ACCEPT THIS, it really doesn't bother me. This is the culture of our nation. There's lots of guns in America, legal and illegal.

822 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:14:45pm

re: #796 Dark_Falcon

It would be less of a problem if the left would publicly abandon gun control, which is a failure idea anyway. Place the blame where it belongs, on assholes who murder, not on a gun culture.

I don't think it's a culture of guns. I think it's a culture of fear. Just look at all the fear being incited these days -- fear or brown people, fear of gays, fear of Muslims, fear of health care reform, etc. After a while, that kind of fear manifests in people feeling threatened and lashing out violently.

I'm a liberal, and the only gun laws I want on the books are ones that keep guns away from the insane and from felons. I'm also in favor of updating and streamlining law enforcement databases everywhere to make background checks quick, if not instant.

Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, people should take a gun safety class and have time at a shooting range before they get a permit. If we have to take classes and have driving time before getting a drivers license, the same thing should apply for guns. There is no reason on the planet to own a gun if you don't know how to properly load, clean, shoot, maintain and store the fucking thing.

823 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:15:05pm

re: #812 WindUpBird

I actually own guns

.
There's a chilling thought right there.
If you really do, please don't ' take them apart' without some instruction.

824 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:15:09pm

re: #786 tradewind

Haven't scanned the whole thread, but has Kos been properly chastised for posting ' Giffords is dead to me ' in a diary?
Evidently her crime was refusing to vote for Pelosi as Speaker.
Stop the Left Wing Hate Speech.//

That's a serious MBF attempt.
If I quoted every single time anybody used violent language and threats on the right-wing Yahoo threads, I'd be producing a bloody encyclopedia, not one single paragraph.

825 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:15:19pm

re: #815 Killgore Trout

It's not gonna happen. Within a week of a Beck fan being arrested on his way to assasinate people at the Tides foundation Beck was back with Tides/Soros/Acorn conspiracies again. I don't know what it's going to take to get the wingnuts to wake up but I'm afraid we ain't even close yet.

I don't think so either. If anything this will only raise the hysteria from their camps. They'll also claim victimhood as they often do. Same like what happened with Brietbart and the NAACP. Or the NAACP and the Tea Party.

826 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:15:25pm

re: #818 WindUpBird

I mean, illegally. it's easy to get a gun illegally in America. Those are just facts.

On point. Illegal access is too easy.

827 darthstar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:15:50pm

Hey everyone. Been offline all day as I was out patrolling. Sad news from Arizona. Glad to see Sarah Palin doing the responsible thing and scrubbing her web-sites so she doesn't look guilty. Caught a bit of Wolf Blitzer in the Thai restaurant where we had dinner (Tahoe City has a great Thai restaurant!). Looked (there was no sound), like they were already painting the shooter as a neo-Nazi. When all else fails, blame Hitler. Stupid fuckers (CNN, that is).

828 webevintage  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:16:13pm

Let's just repost SFZ's awesome remark from earlier:

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. However, if it turns out that the shooter was motivated by violent rhetoric from left-wing figures, I will hold THEM accountable for what they said.

See, this is the thing. If the Baader-Meinhof Gang, or the Weathermen, or WTF, come back from the crypt and start spewing hate and blowing shit up, I will not be backing them, because, you see, I am an American liberal, and they are freakazoid assholes, and will be even if I find one or two basic ideas we agree on. If their rhetoric starts to be parroted by Democrats in Washington, I will not vote for those people, and will actively campaign for non-crazy Democrats.

And I certainly won't be caught dead on LGF pretending that the Weathermen are 'really a mix' of extreme right-wing and left-wing ideas, I will just be condemning their asses as radical terrorists. I don't like radical terrorists.

This isn't so hard. No conservative is diminished by the actions of radical wingnuts. It's a fucking radical wingnut! But pretending that there is no problem, that the rhetoric isn't out there, that it isn't bad, and that we don't have a problem, is just plain dumb.

829 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:16:22pm

re: #802 WindUpBird

Well, they actually often do, but the GOP and the NRA continue to lie through their teeth about Democratic candidates and their positions on gun control. I've never seen so much rank nonsense in my life about supposed mysterious gun control plans as when Obama was elected. So here we are!

The problem is that he was from a very liberal neighborhood in an city with a very anti-gun political culture. That lead to the rhetoric. It clearly went over the top, but Obama's recent appointment of an anti-gun person as the director of the BATFE is reminder that Barack Obama is no friend to gun ownership.

830 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:17:58pm

re: #809 Gus 802

Come on now. Straining to find a Tu Quoque. Let's face it. Certain elements of the Tea Party and infamous opinionators need to man up and admit that they've gotten carried away with the "next time we're coming with guns!" rhetoric.

Exactly!
They miss the point, nobody is claiming that rationale people are being influenced by this violet rhetoric, the problem are the already unhinged who make it their mission in their altered reality.

831 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:18:01pm

I'm never wrong!

Eleventy!

/

832 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:18:12pm

re: #829 Dark_Falcon

Except that he hasn't done anything about guns or gun ownership since taking office, so I don't get this whole line of reasoning. He might not like guns, but he's not going out of his way to take them from anyone either.

833 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:18:29pm

re: #823 tradewind

.
There's a chilling thought right there.
If you really do, please don't ' take them apart' without some instruction.

Nice insult. Have a downding.

834 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:18:34pm

re: #644 Stanley Sea

Off-topic:

I just watched Episode 11 "Mickey" of Vol 1, and Episode 1 "Disease" of Vol 2, Season 5, Rescue me. Those are the episodes where Garrity goes in for surgery due to liver cancer. At the end of Mickey and near the beginning of Disease, there are two priceless moments where Garrity is dreaming and he's actually singing (ok, might not be his voice per se) but the scenes are almost breathtaking. Do you remember those? I'm just stunned. Brilliant directing. Brilliant ideas.

835 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:18:35pm

re: #824 elizajane
Yeah, it works both ways.
For every example there's a counter-example.
Really not all that productive to sit around measuring.
Praying for the full recovery of the victims, full discovery and prosecution of any other perps, and may God comfort and strengthen the families of the dead.
Goodnight.

836 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:19:59pm

re: #820 Rightwingconspirator

"I think there's a psychological power-fantasy aspect to gun ownership"

You hurt your own point right there.

You're saying there isn't?

Not everyone, but you're saying nobody buys a gun and then sorta fetishizes the act of taking out the burglar?

fuck dude, I saw it all over my friends' (and their friends, who wer eoften not my friends at all) blogs right after Katrina. i counted people fantastizing about killing looters, gosh, 20 times, 30 times? in the wake of Katrina? I believe the more odious people were using terms like "tap tap, two to the center of mass"


That ain't no accident, that's how some people think. And pretending that there aren't people out there who think that way is ridiculous.

I mean, you know Charles been posting their signs! All their craaazy signs! Deny these people exist all you want. I'm staring at the photographic evidence right before my eyes.


i think you are being defensive. I own guns, I don't involve myself in gun culture. We go out into the woods and shoot at washing machines. My partner tinkers with the rifles, it's a nice hobby.


I repeat

I OWN GUNS.

So whatever ;-)

837 CarleeCork  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:20:07pm

re: #788 BryanS
Let's make a deal and talk about this in a different thread. Ok? We are way O/T.

838 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:20:23pm

re: #831 Gus 802

I'm never wrong!

Eleventy!

/

Except, when you're wrong!
LOL!

839 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:20:27pm

If you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar no matter how much you tell your mom that your brother also has his hand in the cookie jar, you still have your hand in the cookie jar.

840 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:20:35pm

re: #833 Dark_Falcon
You should know that people get in all sorts of trouble when they ' mess around ' with guns they just ' keep '.
There was concern along with that poke, Dark.

841 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:20:41pm

re: #817 tradewind

It's no equivalence at all.

Of course it's not but it is being treated as such.

842 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:20:48pm

re: #823 tradewind

May we please give credit where due? If WUB is comfortable with legit ownership, that's a plus.

843 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:21:08pm

re: #829 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that he was from a very liberal neighborhood in an city with a very anti-gun political culture. That lead to the rhetoric. It clearly went over the top, but Obama's recent appointment of an anti-gun person as the director of the BATFE is reminder that Barack Obama is no friend to gun ownership.

I still don't think he cares as much as people think he does.

Many politicians are in this position. They are asked about something they either (a) don't care about (b) do care and disagree with their base, but not enough to take a stand.

Whenever asked, Obama gives a half-hearted, stock Democrat answer. "I believe in common sense gun control" or something.

I doubt he gives a shit one way or the other. Or maybe he does, but doesn't care enough to do anything about it.

844 tradewind  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:21:33pm

re: #842 Rightwingconspirator
Sure.
Now really out.

845 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:21:37pm

re: #823 tradewind

.
There's a chilling thought right there.
If you really do, please don't ' take them apart' without some instruction.

aaaand the short bus weighs in

846 McSpiff  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:22:11pm

re: #840 tradewind

Other than just being a shit disturber, what reason do you have to assume WUB is inexperienced with guns? Grow up.

847 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:22:33pm

I hate guns.
But I ain't going to do anything to prevent upstanding people from owning them.
Just keep your laws away from my swords!
:)

848 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:22:44pm

re: #832 Lidane

Except that he hasn't done anything about guns or gun ownership since taking office, so I don't get this whole line of reasoning. He might not like guns, but he's not going out of his way to take them from anyone either.

His ATF director appointment was a clear indication of the course he favors. That to me argues that he is not a friend to gun ownership. That is not to say that he's some "OUT TO GRAB OUR GUNS KENYAN SOCIALIST!!1", but rather that he's a liberal who holds the anti-gun views common among urban Democrats. Again, I'm arguing Obama's wrong, not that the overheated rhetoric is right.

849 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:23:36pm

re: #847 Varek Raith

I hate guns.
But I ain't going to do anything to prevent upstanding people from owning them.
Just keep your laws away from my swords!
:)

What! No light sabers?
///

850 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:23:40pm

re: #792 Soap_Man

Well, both Super Bowl teams fell today.

Go Chiefs!

851 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:23:44pm

re: #836 WindUpBird

re: #836 WindUpBird

I am being defensive, given a couple decades of pushing back on the BS about guns and excess regulations. And defensive on your behalf where appropriate. My #842

852 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:23:47pm

re: #842 Rightwingconspirator

May we please give credit where due? If WUB is comfortable with legit ownership, that's a plus.

I'm in oregon, I'm WAY comfortable with legit ownership. Many of my local friends own guns, hell, my friend from SF got to shoot for the first time, with her new boyfriend, who's practically got an arsenal. And yes, all legal, and yes he votes democrat and is basically a big hippie. But big hippies in oregon? All have guns.

853 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:24:15pm

re: #837 CarleeCork

Let's make a deal and talk about this in a different thread. Ok? We are way O/T.

No Problem :) Not up for the moment for a long discussion/debate. Around this time of night, though, the thread's topics start to become whatever is posted--kind of free for all.

854 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:24:25pm

re: #840 tradewind

You should know that people get in all sorts of trouble when they ' mess around ' with guns they just ' keep '.
There was concern along with that poke, Dark.

what a tard you are

855 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:25:12pm

re: #850 prairiefire

Go Chiefs Bears!

FTFY

856 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:25:21pm

re: #848 Dark_Falcon

Eh. I think he just appointed a Democrat to the ATF post, as was his right as POTUS. For me, it's the lack of any real policy initiatives regarding guns that matters more. He hasn't said or done anything directly about guns. I think the much bigger clusterfucks of health care, the economy, and the two wars we're fighting have overshadowed everything else and are his main priorities.

857 BryanS  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:26:10pm

re: #849 Floral Giraffe

What! No light sabers?
///

Made me think of this:

858 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:26:38pm

re: #851 Rightwingconspirator

re: #836 WindUpBird

I am being defensive, given a couple decades of pushing back on the BS about guns and excess regulations. And defensive on your behalf where appropriate. My #842

Guns are so serious. I have a phobia about them. My hubby on about our third date, for whatever reason in his head, thought it would be a good idea to put his Glock in my hand without telling me. He quickly realized his mistake when I about lost my shizz.

859 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:26:46pm

re: #851 Rightwingconspirator

re: #836 WindUpBird

I am being defensive, given a couple decades of pushing back on the BS about guns and excess regulations. And defensive on your behalf where appropriate. My #842

fair enough ;-)

In my wildest dreams, my hope is that kooks and fretful liberal moms drop their whole gun control hand wringey Rosie O thing, it's just pointless

860 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:27:30pm

re: #858 prairiefire

Guns are so serious. I have a phobia about them. My hubby on about our third date, for whatever reason in his head, thought it would be a good idea to put his Glock in my hand without telling me. He quickly realized his mistake when I about lost my shizz.

...Must...take...high...road...........

861 Lidane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:27:34pm

re: #852 WindUpBird

And yes, all legal, and yes he votes democrat and is basically a big hippie. But big hippies in oregon? All have guns.

A lot of hippies and Democrats here in Texas have guns too. Why? Because it's Texas, that's why.

People should never assume that just because someone's a liberal or Democrat that they're unarmed. Some of my more liberal friends have arsenals at home because they like guns, simple as that.

862 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:27:39pm

re: #852 WindUpBird

An additional point-I'd like to see the high civilian award for bravery for the two men that took this creep down. Anyone else up for that?

863 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:27:52pm

re: #861 Lidane

A lot of hippies and Democrats here in Texas have guns too. Why? Because it's Texas, that's why.

People should never assume that just because someone's a liberal or Democrat that they're unarmed. Some of my more liberal friends have arsenals at home because they like guns, simple as that.

well, Austin is Portland's sister city :D

864 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:04pm

re: #862 Rightwingconspirator

An additional point-I'd like to see the high civilian award for bravery for the two men that took this creep down. Anyone else up for that?

sure!

865 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:08pm

re: #855 Soap_Man

FTFY

Whoot! I used to live in Glen Ellyn.[Link: www.glenellyn.org...]

866 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:11pm

re: #860 Varek Raith

...Must...take...high...road...

Hahahahahaha I know it's taking all my willpower not to have some fun with that post.

867 McSpiff  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:27pm

re: #860 Varek Raith

...Must...take...high...road...

I think we're being setup on this one...

868 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:37pm

re: #860 Varek Raith

...Must...take...high...road...

I teed it up.

869 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:48pm

re: #847 Varek Raith

I hate guns.
But I ain't going to do anything to prevent upstanding people from owning them.
Just keep your laws away from my swords!
:)

Like the link. Just finished FNV.

870 darthstar  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:28:59pm

Here's a diary over at dKos with Olbermann's special comment for tonight...it's pretty powerful, and yes, he does take responsibility, and apologize for, his own rhetoric in the past.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

871 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:29:08pm

re: #868 prairiefire

I teed it up.

IT'S A TRAP!

872 Donna Ballard  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:29:40pm

Gonna log off, see you all later. Try to Keep Laughing everyone.

873 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:29:57pm

I held off from posting that true story because I thought it would sound just like it did.

874 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:30:29pm

re: #812 WindUpBird

I have a gun, too. My father gave it to me. It's a .45.

I'm hearing you on all accounts. I support the 2nd amendment as much as I support the 1st. The issue is we have a gun culture that has gotten out of control, as you said.

I'm trying to find some current info after 2005 but I'm having a hard time.

875 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:30:45pm

re: #823 tradewind

Please show some decency and turn it off, it's not appropriate in light of today's tragic event.

876 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:31:08pm

re: #847 Varek Raith

I hate guns.
But I ain't going to do anything to prevent upstanding people from owning them.
Just keep your laws away from my swords!
:)

Ohhhh.. home defense..
No chance of killing the people in the apartment next door..
Sweet!

877 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:31:09pm

re: #845 WindUpBird

aaand the short bus weighs in

"short bus" isn't much better than what he said.

re: #840 tradewind

You should know that people get in all sorts of trouble when they ' mess around ' with guns they just ' keep '.
There was concern along with that poke, Dark.

Ah yes, you have concerns.

878 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:31:14pm

re: #840 tradewind


There was concern along with that poke, Dark.

Image: funny-pictures-your-cat-is-very-concerned.jpg

879 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:33:22pm

re: #794 Kilroy01

Mein Kampf was a best seller as well.

Years ago, I read the memoir of a woman who grew up in and out of Hitler Youth camps. Really an interesting read. At one point in her diary she records that their reading group has finished Mein Kampf, and adds "Thank God."

Fascinating book. At one of the groups she stayed with, one of her bunkmates was the daughter of a Chinese businessman and a German woman. She was allowed to be part of the group but couldn't wear the full HY regalia because she was Asian. Bizarre mundane insights into an insane world.

880 McSpiff  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:33:41pm

re: #877 Dark_Falcon

"short bus" isn't much better than what he said.

re: #840 tradewind

Ah yes, you have concerns.

This might be hard to explain D_F, but I find your writing style very similar to my father's, so I picture you a lot like him. So you using memes like that absolutely cracks me up but its so out of what I imagine "your" character to be.

881 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:33:44pm

re: #876 Kilroy01

Ohhh.. home defense..
No chance of killing the people in the apartment next door..
Sweet!

Once my financial situation stabilizes, I'm going to take formal lessons.

882 Kruk  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:34:11pm

re: #371 justaminute

I think life in solitary confinement is worse than death.

Life *outside* solitary confinement would be even worse for anyone convincted of killing or abusing a child. There are some things that even convicts abhor, and violence against children is at the top of the list.

883 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:34:14pm

re: #838 Floral Giraffe

I noticed something missing in my mailbox, no spanking for you ,thirty days.

884 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:34:49pm
885 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:34:51pm

re: #858 prairiefire

Guns are so serious. I have a phobia about them. My hubby on about our third date, for whatever reason in his head, thought it would be a good idea to put his Glock in my hand without telling me. He quickly realized his mistake when I about lost my shizz.

I grew up with guns. We had big old ones mounted on the beams in the family room, handguns in bedside tables upstairs. My grandfather had a hunting place ("deer camp") where he and his pals went to get venison in season, and we went to vacation and shoot tin cans in the summer.

When I tell my European friends this, they absolutely freak out. It's perhaps the most striking, total gulf I've ever experienced between my American life and theirs. None of them has ever held a gun, ever. I'm not sure a lot of them have even seen a gun outside of movies.

886 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:34:57pm

re: #870 darthstar

Here's a diary over at dKos with Olbermann's special comment for tonight...it's pretty powerful, and yes, he does take responsibility, and apologize for, his own rhetoric in the past.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I am going to be parked right in front of my wireless Monday morning, certain I will hear Beck and Rush echo these sentiments!

887 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:35:04pm

re: #797 webevintage

KOS did not post that in a diary.
A member, one of what...100,000 people, posted that in their diary.

It has however, been reposted at Michelle Malkin's site, and probably many others, because BY GOD, this has to somehow be the left's fault, or at least, you know, half and half.

888 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:35:41pm

re: #879 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I read the memoir of a woman who grew up in and out of Hitler Youth camps. Really an interesting read. At one point in her diary she records that their reading group has finished Mein Kampf, and adds "Thank God."

Fascinating book. At one of the groups she stayed with, one of her bunkmates was the daughter of a Chinese businessman and a German woman. She was allowed to be part of the group but couldn't wear the full HY regalia because she was Asian. Bizarre mundane insights into an insane world.

In the Arab world, Mein Kampf is second only to the Quran in book sales.

A perennial best seller.

889 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:35:54pm

re: #884 Gus 802

Image: gun_bullying.jpg

That pic comes from Phoenix, btw.

891 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:36:08pm

re: #855 Soap_Man

FTFY

Hell Yeah!! Now it depends on if the Packer or Eagles win tomorrow. I know we can beat the Seahawks at Soldier Field and the Eagles as well. But I kind of hope the Packers win tomorrow, because they have a better chance of winning in Atlanta than Seattle does. And a Bears vs. Packers NFC Championship game would be epic.

892 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:36:32pm
893 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:36:53pm

re: #808 BigPapa

Comparing 'Giffords is dead to me' to RW calls to violence is a false equivalence.

Especially since the writer goes on to detail how s/he will carry out revenge--by never voting or volunteering for her again.

Yep. That sounds like a crazed gunman to me.

894 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:36:55pm
895 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:37:09pm

re: #875 Reginald Perrin

Dang, I already down dinged it.

896 researchok  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:37:11pm

re: #890 Gus 802

Image: 0304-gun-control-and-tyranny.jpg_full_600.jpg

Wasn't so bad when Charlton Heston said it.

897 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:37:24pm
898 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:37:58pm

re: #897 Gus 802

Image: gun1.jpg

This one is "patient zero".

899 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:37:59pm

re: #883 Reginald Perrin

[deleted]
Sir.

900 elizajane  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:38:06pm

re: #879 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I read the memoir of a woman who grew up in and out of Hitler Youth camps. Really an interesting read. At one point in her diary she records that their reading group has finished Mein Kampf, and adds "Thank God."

Fascinating book. At one of the groups she stayed with, one of her bunkmates was the daughter of a Chinese businessman and a German woman. She was allowed to be part of the group but couldn't wear the full HY regalia because she was Asian. Bizarre mundane insights into an insane world.

You should check out Christa Wolf's *Patterns of Childhood,* a remarkable autobiographical novel about growing up in Nazi Germany by one of East Germany's greatest writers. One of the most amazing books I have ever read, as a story and as a work of literature.

901 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:38:17pm

re: #897 Gus 802

Image: gun1.jpg

Guess who's guarding the tree of liberty?
Image: abramsm1a2(4).jpg

902 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:39:00pm

Home Defense

Everything is better with a "Don't try this at home"

903 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:40:14pm

re: #894 Gus 802

Image: PH2010041803769.jpg

I'm sorry for being so crass but when I see that kind of stuff I can't help but think 'little dick.'

904 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:40:25pm

re: #823 tradewind

.
There's a chilling thought right there.
If you really do, please don't ' take them apart' without some instruction.

Uh, is there a reason you would assume WUB is lying about his gun ownership, or that he does not know how to take care of his weapons?

905 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:41:00pm

re: #903 BigPapa

I'm sorry for being so crass but when I see that kind of stuff I can't help but think 'little dick.'

I'm sure that guy hasn't seen his dick since 1999.

//

906 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:41:06pm

re: #904 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, is there a reason you would assume WUB is lying about his gun ownership, or that he does not know how to take care of his weapons?

Because, silly, liberals can't be gun owners.
/

907 albusteve  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:41:11pm

all this talk about guns makes me horny

908 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:41:20pm

re: #885 elizajane

Yes, that is one attitude difference. Also, I think they "think" more collectively in their decisions for governance. It seems Americans have a much more singular identity. "Leave me the hell alone!"

909 Kilroy01  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:42:12pm

re: #903 BigPapa

I'm sorry for being so crass but when I see that kind of stuff I can't help but think 'little dick.'

Better hope he never finds out who you are or he's hoping in his Hummer and coming over.

910 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:42:54pm

re: #884 Gus 802

Image: gun_bullying.jpg

I really wouldn't call that "bullying". The AR-15 was slung and carried on his back, and safetied. At no time did he even bring it to a ready position.

911 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:44:02pm

re: #910 Dark_Falcon

I really wouldn't call that "bullying". The AR-15 was slung and carried on his back, and safetied. At no time did he even bring it to a ready position.

I don't know what you can call it but that's the asshole Paulian/truther/freak that brought his AR-15 within 100s of feet of the President.

912 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:44:54pm

The only place I see people big bring guns to political rallies is Lebanon and Gaza. Might be some other countries.

913 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:45:14pm

re: #899 Floral Giraffe

[deleted]
Sir.

For that you deserve a reward. Now where's that riding crop gone off to... ;)

914 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:47:19pm

re: #911 Gus 802

I don't know what you can call it but that's the asshole Paulian/truther/freak that brought his AR-15 within 100s of feet of the President.

He's an asshole Paulian but he didn't break the law or threaten anyone. But he is a political freak, that's a fact.

915 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:47:45pm

re: #914 Dark_Falcon

He's an asshole Paulian but he didn't break the law or threaten anyone. But he is a political freak, that's a fact.

The Freaks Behind the Arizona Gun Stunt

916 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:48:32pm

re: #907 albusteve

all this talk about guns makes me horny

Ah, there's our Green Bay Fan for-a-day (that day being tomorrow).

918 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:49:30pm

re: #835 tradewind

Yeah, it works both ways.
For every example there's a counter-example.
Really not all that productive to sit around measuring.
Praying for the full recovery of the victims, full discovery and prosecution of any other perps, and may God comfort and strengthen the families of the dead.
Goodnight.

Goodnight, Trade.

That said, I am going to go back to an example I made much earlier in this thread.

If, God forbid, some kid from Berkeley or Irvine were to shoot up an AIPAC convention, or a visiting Israeli politician, or Abe Foxman, or what have you, I am willing to take real good odds that none of the people I've seen on and off this site, arguing so fervently that this guy is really a lefty, or 'just crazy', and with no right-wing influence, would have ANY doubts whatsoever about the precise reasons for this hypothetical shooting spree. Even if he had weird combinations of literature, or mentioned right-wing talking points in his crazed manifesto. And anyone here trying to suggest otherwise would be excoriated BY THE SAME PEOPLE who are now trying to share the blame around equally.

I am not even saying people shouldn't be partisan. I'm just saying that I absolutely do not buy the deflection I am seeing, and it irks me no end.

919 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:50:42pm

re: #840 tradewind

You should know that people get in all sorts of trouble when they ' mess around ' with guns they just ' keep '.
There was concern along with that poke, Dark.

Oh, come ON.

920 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:51:26pm

re: #899 Floral Giraffe

I have no clue what the last two comments are supposed to mean.
Please be nice and explain by email to this tired old man, what you were trying to say.

921 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:51:59pm

re: #919 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!
Sometimes I wonder why you bother!

922 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:52:09pm

Time for sleep.
Later.

923 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:52:54pm

re: #846 McSpiff

Other than just being a shit disturber, what reason do you have to assume WUB is inexperienced with guns? Grow up.

He's a liberal.

He should try being a liberal woman. I once asked for some information on an internet forum about gun laws in a state I was moving to. The behavior was surreal. People offered to teach me to shoot, assuming that I'd never touched a gun before.

925 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:53:58pm

re: #917 Gus 802

The Viper Militia and the Arizona Gun Stunt

The Arizona Gun Stunt and the Pastor of Death

The freak who brought an AR15 semi-automatic rifle to an Obama rally in Arizona is interviewed, as he attends the church of Pastor Steven Anderson — who is praying that Barack Obama will die: Tempe pastor reiterates wish for President Obama’s death.

“I concur, I think we’d be better off if God would send (Obama) where he’s going now instead of later,” said Broughton. “(Obama) is destroying our country.”

When asked if he was advocating violence against the President, Broughton said he wouldn’t answer the question directly.

“I don’t care how God does it, I’m not going into further detail than that,” said Broughton. “It would be better now than later.”

926 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:55:40pm

re: #861 Lidane

A lot of hippies and Democrats here in Texas have guns too. Why? Because it's Texas, that's why.

People should never assume that just because someone's a liberal or Democrat that they're unarmed. Some of my more liberal friends have arsenals at home because they like guns, simple as that.

And some left-wing nuts fetishize guns as well.

927 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:56:15pm

re: #862 Rightwingconspirator

An additional point-I'd like to see the high civilian award for bravery for the two men that took this creep down. Anyone else up for that?

Hell, throw them a ticker-tape parade.

928 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:56:58pm

This is pretty good:

@wdharrisjr Will Harris
So, when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed kills people, all Muslims are evil. When Jared Lee Loughner does, it's an isolated crazy person. Got it.

929 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:58:15pm

re: #916 Dark_Falcon

Ah, there's our Green Bay Fan for-a-day (that day being tomorrow).

DF, these types of posts are subject to future ridicule.

I don't have a dog in the GB vs. PHI fight..... (maybe I shouldn't have said "dog") but I truly hope the Chiefs lose tamale.

930 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:58:40pm

re: #927 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, throw them a ticker-tape parade.

I'd rather wait for the dirtbag to be convicted and then hold the parade. Only tie the scumbag killer to a rickshaw and make him pull the men who stopped him. A nice dose of public humiliation.

931 Gus  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:58:50pm

re: #928 Gus 802

This is pretty good:

I would have used a closer example like Major Nidal Hasan.

932 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:59:15pm

re: #885 elizajane

I grew up with guns. We had big old ones mounted on the beams in the family room, handguns in bedside tables upstairs. My grandfather had a hunting place ("deer camp") where he and his pals went to get venison in season, and we went to vacation and shoot tin cans in the summer.

When I tell my European friends this, they absolutely freak out. It's perhaps the most striking, total gulf I've ever experienced between my American life and theirs. None of them has ever held a gun, ever. I'm not sure a lot of them have even seen a gun outside of movies.

There's a scene in the second "Bridget Jones" book where someone sends the heroine a bullet with her name on it. She thinks it's a personalized pen or sample lipstick, and keeps trying to open it. She finally shows it to her boyfriend, who realizes what the thing is.

It was the most unrealistic moment for me in a book that was not exactly supposed to be hard-core realism.

Very weird.

933 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:59:19pm

re: #840 tradewind

You should know that people get in all sorts of trouble when they ' mess around ' with guns they just ' keep '.
There was concern along with that poke, Dark.

Ha. Do you know there are queer liberals in Oregon who own and operate firearms for self-defense?

Stuff your bias. Have a nice night!

934 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:59:57pm

re: #926 SanFranciscoZionist

And some left-wing nuts fetishize guns as well.

Mmm, yes, we agrees with the SFZ, don't we my precious. *strokes new Sig Sauer p220 lovingly*

935 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 8:59:59pm

re: #929 Mr Pancakes

DF, these types of posts are subject to future ridicule.

I don't have a dog in the GB vs. PHI fight... (maybe I shouldn't have said "dog") but I truly hope the Chiefs lose tamale.

I know. But Albusteve hates the Eagles, and the Packers are playing the Eagles tomorrow. Therefore, he'll be rooting for Green Bay tomorrow.

936 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:00:19pm

re: #888 researchok

In the Arab world, Mein Kampf is second only to the Quran in book sales.

A perennial best seller.

Which points up not only the political climate, but how dismal book sales are in the Arab world.

937 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:02:27pm

re: #935 Dark_Falcon

I know. But Albusteve hates the Eagles, and the Packers are playing the Eagles tomorrow. Therefore, he'll be rooting for Green Bay tomorrow.

Hating the Iggles is in his DNA as hating the Raiders is in mine ........ can't blame him for that.

938 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:03:41pm

re: #930 Dark_Falcon

It's a little early to be that bloodthirsty.
Give the police & the Feds a chance to figure out what happened.
I agree it's horrendous, but please, we need to know what happened.

939 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:05:17pm

re: #921 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
Sometimes I wonder why you bother!

That I understood and agree 100%

940 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:05:35pm

re: #934 goddamnedfrank

Mmm, yes, we agrees with the SFZ, don't we my precious. *strokes new Sig Sauer p220 lovingly*

I was thinking more of the lesbian separatists I knew in college, but OK...

941 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:06:46pm

re: #940 SanFranciscoZionist

I was thinking more of the lesbian separatists I knew in college, but OK...

I was thinking of Colbert and his "Sweetness."

942 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:08:42pm

re: #940 SanFranciscoZionist

I was thinking more of the lesbian separatists I knew in college, but OK...

I wonder if the guns were penis substitutes in that case.

[dives into bunker]

943 efuseakay  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:09:08pm

re: #7 Charles

I have many, many more photos like this in my archives.

I foresee a Rightwing Extremist slideshow a la Palestinian Child Abuse in the near future?

944 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:09:26pm

re