Jim Hoft Falls for Obviously Fake Facebook Page to Link Loughner to Obama

Wingnuts • Views: 23,686

Today, the world’s dumbest blogger, Jim “Dim” Hoft, in his crazed attempt to cast the shooter of Gabrielle Giffords as a “typical leftist nut,” actually found a Facebook page that proved he was right all along! He rushed to his computer and feverishly typed this title: “Whoops! This Changes Things- Loughner’s Hero Was Barack Obama!”

Just one problem. The Facebook page was an obvious fake, with the shooter’s name misspelled. And when he finally figured it out (because one of his commenters pointed it out), Hoft simply deleted his post. Media Matters has the screenshot: Shameless: Jim Hoft Falls For Fake Facebook Profile In Attempt To Link Loughner To Obama.

Ben Dimiero’s comment is undeniable:

This morning, Hoft posted what he seems to think is bulletproof evidence supporting this thesis, but, as is usually the case with him, it is merely evidence that someone as hackishly irresponsible as Hoft should have no role in our national political discourse.

Hoft, of course, is one of the star writers at race-baiting smear artist Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Government” site, along with the completely deranged Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller, who is also frantically trying to paint Loughner as a “leftist.”

Jump to bottom

206 comments
1 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:53:41am

Gullible and ideological blindness to the facts are no way to go through life.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:54:25am

I still think that all gun owners should have to give their political affililation when applying for a licence. That will make it easier to assign blame if they should shoot someone without having to resort to all sorts of fuitless and time-consuming speculation on whether Hitler was a right or left-winger...

3 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:54:54am

re: #1 lawhawk

Gullible and ideological blindness to the facts are no way to go through life.

Yeah the real way to get through life is drunk fat and stupid!

4 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:55:29am

Fucking brain-crippled douchebag.

5 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:56:03am

What I am really not getting about the 'debate' over the violent rhetoric, the calls for violence, the dehumanizing statements-- what is the purpose of defending them? What good are they? For those who are reacting to the calls to tone down the rhetoric with anger and defensiveness-- what is there to defend or protect that's worthwhile?

I really don't get it.

6 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:56:03am

HMMM... the pseudo-journalistic form of posting "FIRST!"
don't check it just run with it...
Dan Rather lost a career working along similar lines.

7 webevintage  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:56:55am

re: #6 Boondock St. Bender

HMMM... the pseudo-journalistic form of posting "FIRST!"
don't check it just run with it...
Dan Rather lost a career working along similar lines.

IOKIYAR

8 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:57:08am

re: #6 Boondock St. Bender

HMMM... the pseudo-journalistic form of posting "FIRST!"
don't check it just run with it...
Dan Rather lost a career working along similar lines.


That was back in the days when journalism still had some shreds of decency and professional standards...

9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:57:26am
Hoft, of course, is one of the star writers at race-baiting smear artist Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Government” site, along with the completely deranged Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller, who is also frantically trying to paint Loughner as a “leftist.”

Only because she knows she can't get away with calling him a muslim.
/half

10 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:57:29am

re: #5 Obdicut

What I am really not getting about the 'debate' over the violent rhetoric, the calls for violence, the dehumanizing statements-- what is the purpose of defending them? What good are they? For those who are reacting to the calls to tone down the rhetoric with anger and defensiveness-- what is there to defend or protect that's worthwhile?

I really don't get it.

You can take my gun crazy rhetoric when you pry it from my cold dead hands!

11 Big Steve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:57:46am

And now Westboro gets into the act. I literally cannot stand the thought that these people are going to be at that little girls funeral. And I mean seriously I cannot bear the thought of it......

Westboro to Protest at Arizonia Killing Funerals

12 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:58:05am

re: #7 webevintage

IOKIYAR
i gotta ask

13 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:58:50am

re: #11 Big Steve

And now Westboro gets into the act. I literally cannot stand the thought that these people are going to be at that little girls funeral. And I mean seriously I cannot bear the thought of it...

Westboro to Protest at Arizonia Killing Funerals

With any luck they'll be drowned out by a pack of people standing right behind them play vuvuzelas... that's what happened when they protested in West Virginia if memory serves...

14 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:59:23am

re: #6 Boondock St. Bender

HMMM... the pseudo-journalistic form of posting "FIRST!"
don't check it just run with it...
Dan Rather lost a career working along similar lines.

You can get away with shit on the internet that you would never get away with when fronting a news program on a major network.

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:59:31am

Islamic Obama Kenyan Ideological Antichrist Returns!

16 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:59:47am

re: #11 Big Steve

Some people have no shame.

17 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:59:56am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

You can take my gun crazy rhetoric when you pry it from my cold dead hands useless non functional brain!

FTFY?
:-)

18 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:59:57am

re: #12 Boondock St. Bender

IOKIYAR
i gotta ask

Its Okay If You're A Republican.

See Newt's Adultery for example...

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:00:47am

re: #18 jamesfirecat

Its Okay If You're A Republican.

See Newt's Adultery for example...


Republicans believe in God, who grants forgiveness to the repentant, as opposed to non-believers and Democrats, who must fry for their sins...

20 Ming  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:01:05am

I live about 120 miles north of where the shooting occurred. I was touched and honored to see the sheriff of Pima County express concern about the vitriol that is so much a part of our national political life. It appears that the shooter is just basically nuts, but it also appears that this is the time to take stock of the hatred that is poisoning our national discourse. In the present times, much of the hatred does come from the right wing. This does not excuse the crazies on the left (remember Cynthia McKinney?), but it really is time for all good people to reflect on what is happening with the right wing right now. America deserves better than to be told that our current problems will be solved with some huntin' and shootin'. You betcha.

21 webevintage  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:01:10am

re: #5 Obdicut

What I am really not getting about the 'debate' over the violent rhetoric, the calls for violence, the dehumanizing statements-- what is the purpose of defending them? What good are they? For those who are reacting to the calls to tone down the rhetoric with anger and defensiveness-- what is there to defend or protect that's worthwhile?

I really don't get it.

I don't either.
It seems that would be something that everyone could agree on....
They don't want to step up and admit that maybe, just maybe their talk gave Loughner that final push to real violence.
It is so easy to paint him as a schizophrenic and move on, all the while ignoring fucking Loughner's nihilist views or the fact that he parroted much of what he said and wrote from the website of a right-wing sovereign citizen group.
If we decide he is crazy then those who make maps with cross-hairs on politician's districts or suggest "second amendment remedies" or who agitate from either side of the political spectrum though the use of violent rhetoric or images or "come shoot an M16 with your TeaParty candidate" will not have to take a step back and consider that what they do contribute to the environment that might flip that switch in someone like Loughner "into overdrive".

22 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:01:39am

re: #12 Boondock St. Bender

IOKIYAR
i gotta ask

He's saying "It's okay if you're a republican".

This republican says "No, it's not. Not in my book."

23 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:02:03am

re: #5 Obdicut

What I am really not getting about the 'debate' over the violent rhetoric, the calls for violence, the dehumanizing statements-- what is the purpose of defending them? What good are they? For those who are reacting to the calls to tone down the rhetoric with anger and defensiveness-- what is there to defend or protect that's worthwhile?

I really don't get it.

Like you, I don't care for rhetoric that incites or inflames.

That said, in a nation of 300 plus million we are remarkably civil and tolerant society inflammatory rhetoric notwithstanding. There is very little in the way of political violence in this country.

Overall, inflammatory rhetoric seems to yield more inflammatory rhetoric, not violence.

24 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:02:23am

re: #14 Slumbering Behemoth

true."dim" is a lone loon calling out from the fever swamp

25 webevintage  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:03:00am

re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth

He's saying "It's okay if you're a republican".

This republican says "No, it's not. Not in my book."

Of course not in yours, you are sane....and I was being sarcastic, forgot the slash...my bad.

26 mr.fusion  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:03:46am

Yea, Olbermann showed some schadenfreude the other day with this story......and it was disgusting

but the way the right is twisting in the wind, trying to make this guy into a Che Guevera loving, Hope And Change-r, is just despicable. They want this guy to be a Democrat so freaking bad

27 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:03:54am

re: #11 Big Steve

And now Westboro gets into the act. I literally cannot stand the thought that these people are going to be at that little girls funeral. And I mean seriously I cannot bear the thought of it...

Westboro to Protest at Arizonia Killing Funerals

The Phelps cult will know they are dead and in Hell when...


nobody pays any attention to them.

28 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:03:57am

re: #23 researchok

There is very little in the way of political violence in this country.

Compared to where? We have a terrible history of political assassinations in this country. I feel that we stand out compared to most other first-world nations in that regard.

29 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:03:57am

re: #15 ralphieboy

Islamic Obama Kenyan Ideological Antichrist Returns!


Those caps spell out RAIKOI backwards...
NOW we know what you're on about- confess!

30 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:03:58am

re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth

In any sane persons book,agreed.

31 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:04:07am

re: #20 Ming


They have backed down, but quietly. Sarah will never be able to live down first saying "they were surveyor's marks" and then scrubbing her site.

Only her most ardent (i.e. brain-dead) supporters will stick with her after that, the rest are quietly walking away and looking for other alternatives.

32 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:04:23am

re: #25 webevintage

Oh, I ain't trippin'. Just sayin' I don't hold to the 11th commandment.

33 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:04:38am
"Eat crow, leftist hacks!"

EYEROLLS!

34 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:05:15am

re: #28 Obdicut

Compared to where? We have a terrible history of political assassinations in this country. I feel that we stand out compared to most other first-world nations in that regard.

Compared to other democracies.

Europe has far more political violence than we do.

35 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:05:15am

re: #5 Obdicut

What I am really not getting about the 'debate' over the violent rhetoric, the calls for violence, the dehumanizing statements-- what is the purpose of defending them? What good are they? For those who are reacting to the calls to tone down the rhetoric with anger and defensiveness-- what is there to defend or protect that's worthwhile?

I really don't get it.

They have nothing else. Demonizing your opponent is the best way to win votes, particularly with people who don't know the issues. They don't want to let go of that.

36 shades  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:05:26am

Like the guy that believed a satirical article that said Justine Bieber was supportive of the "ground zero mosque" and ended up breaking his daughter's heart after going public with it, badmouthing a 16-year-old kid over a fake internet rumor.

37 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:05:44am

re: #27 Alouette

The Phelps cult will know they are dead and in Hell when...

nobody pays any attention to them.

Their worst nightmare is not having everyone in the world hate them.

38 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:05:59am

re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, I ain't trippin'. Just sayin' I don't hold to the 11th commandment.

The 11th commandment?
would that be:
'a new commandment I give unto you that you love one another as I have loved you'?

39 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:06:15am

Btw, here is a bing cache of Hoft's post: [Link: cc.bingj.com...]

40 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:06:50am

re: #31 ralphieboy

lord knows she hasn't ever used gun inspired hyperbole before
And of course her often seen use of surveying tools on her reality show.

41 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:07:46am

Hey, Hoft!
Check it!
I found Obama's real birth certificate!
Image: 3787509369_4a6969e9f9_b.jpg

42 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:05am

Hoft is so stupid, if stupid were a country he'd be China

43 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:05am

re: #13 jamesfirecat

With any luck they'll be drowned out by a pack of people standing right behind them play vuvuzelas... that's what happened when they protested in West Virginia if memory serves...

You mean vuvuzelas have a practical purpose? Awesome. :D

44 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:21am

Special Extra Strength Denial Classes All This Week Half Price

guaranteed to explain all assassinations the way you want

45 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:25am

re: #34 researchok

Compared to other democracies.

Europe has far more political violence than we do.

I'm sorry, do you have any sort of statistics to back this up? I feel that Europe has a lot more street scuffles than we do, but much less of a history of assassination.

And we have certainly had huge riots in the US, as well.

46 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:43am

re: #38 Capitalist Tool

11th Commandment:

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."

I am a filthy sinner to the extreme in this regard.

47 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:09:20am

By the way, yesterday I posted a comment with a link to a screenshot purporting to be from the Arizona Secretary of State website showing Loughner registered as a Republican -- I went back today to check it again, and it looks like this is another fake.

48 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:09:45am

re: #23 researchok

Like you, I don't care for rhetoric that incites or inflames.

That said, in a nation of 300 plus million we are remarkably civil and tolerant society inflammatory rhetoric notwithstanding. There is very little in the way of political violence in this country.

Overall, inflammatory rhetoric seems to yield more inflammatory rhetoric, not violence.

it's like playing Russian Roulette tho...sooner or later there will be a round ahead of the pin

49 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:10:43am

re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth

The letter following a politicians name ,in no way absolves them from the added appellation"asshole"

50 elizajane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:10:57am

Sarah "Poor Little Me" Palin e-mails to Glen Beck, "I hate violence" and "Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Even on Politico the comment thread is one collective "bwahahaha".

51 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:11:20am

re: #47 Charles

By the way, yesterday I posted a comment with a link to a screenshot purporting to be from the Arizona Secretary of State website showing Loughner registered as a Republican -- I went back today to check it again, and it looks like this is another fake.

Also, the Arizona Daily Star had already reported him as a registered Independent.

52 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:12:00am

re: #40 Boondock St. Bender

lord knows she hasn't ever used gun inspired hyperbole before
And of course her often seen use of surveying tools on her reality show.

measuring moose antlers is very popular in Alaska...everybody carries a transit

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:12:23am

re: #47 Charles

By the way, yesterday I posted a comment with a link to a screenshot purporting to be from the Arizona Secretary of State website showing Loughner registered as a Republican -- I went back today to check it again, and it looks like this is another fake.

The first screenshot was fake, so the second might be too, but it spells his surname correctly - Loughner - while initial reports had Laughner, so...
Is there a way to check it for the general public?

54 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:12:51am

re: #47 Charles

Quick be like dim and scrub it out!...oh wait ...you have character...never mind

55 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:13:43am

re: #53 Sergey Romanov

The first screenshot was fake, so the second might be too, but it spells his surname correctly - Loughner - while initial reports had Laughner, so...
Is there a way to check it for the general public?

No, the website required knowledge of either is Drivers Licence Number or his Voter ID to look up the info.

As I said, the Arizona Daily Star has talked to the local Registrar and he confirmed that he was registered as an Independent.

56 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:13:44am

What a dumbass.

On an OT note. I quit smoking today. Trying to post it everywhere I hang out so I keep myself in line.

57 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:13:50am

re: #51 000G

Also, the Arizona Daily Star had already reported him as a registered Independent.

from what little credible info is out there at this time, we can look at that guy's actions and wonder at how he was able to keep it together long enough to register as anything

58 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:14:06am

re: #45 Obdicut

I'm sorry, do you have any sort of statistics to back this up? I feel that Europe has a lot more street scuffles than we do, but much less of a history of assassination.

And we have certainly had huge riots in the US, as well.

politically motivated?....I think not

59 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:14:23am

re: #56 Dreggas

Good for you! be strong and keep it up!

60 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:14:55am

re: #44 engineer dog

Special Extra Strength Denial Classes All This Week Half Price

guaranteed to explain all assassinations the way you want

LOL

61 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:15:32am

re: #45 Obdicut

I'm sorry, do you have any sort of statistics to back this up? I feel that Europe has a lot more street scuffles than we do, but much less of a history of assassination.

And we have certainly had huge riots in the US, as well.

'Street scuffles'? Is that what you call mass riots, some of which last for days and weeks?

England, France, Germany, Greece, Spain and other nations have had serious political violence and we will continue to see more of that in the future.

My point is straightforward in a nation of 300 plus million- more than France and England combined- we have remarkably little in the way pf political violence.

When all is said and done, the rhetoric we both abhor yields only a lot more rhetoric than it does violence.

The guy was crazy. If it were really about rhetoric being responsible for violence, there would be a whole lot more violence.

62 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:15:45am

re: #57 Capitalist Tool

from what little credible info is out there at this time, we can look at that guy's actions and wonder at how he was able to keep it together long enough to register as anything

More specifically:

Loughner registered to vote for the first time in 2006, said Chris Roads, Pima County's registrar of voters. He registered as an independent and last voted in the 2008 general election.

Reported Sunday at noon: [Link: azstarnet.com...]

63 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:16:07am

re: #50 elizajane

Sarah "Poor Little Me" Palin e-mails to Glen Beck, "I hate violence" and "Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Even on Politico the comment thread is one collective "bwahahaha".

Even on Politico. That says it pretty much.

64 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:16:26am

re: #58 albusteve

politically motivated?...I think not

Why don't you think so?

65 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:16:33am

re: #56 Dreggas

What a dumbass.

On an OT note. I quit smoking today. Trying to post it everywhere I hang out so I keep myself in line.

Good luck. I quit in the Summer of 2009.

66 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:16:37am

re: #53 Sergey Romanov

The first screenshot was fake, so the second might be too, but it spells his surname correctly - Loughner - while initial reports had Laughner, so...
Is there a way to check it for the general public?

No - I went to the AZ website and tried to look it up, but you need a voter ID or driver's license number.

67 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:17:15am

re: #56 Dreggas

What a dumbass.

On an OT note. I quit smoking today. Trying to post it everywhere I hang out so I keep myself in line.

Congrats... have a cigar on me!

I stopped cold over three years ago. If you need any tips what worked for me... ask... anytime.

68 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:17:43am

re: #56 Dreggas

What a dumbass.

On an OT note. I quit smoking today. Trying to post it everywhere I hang out so I keep myself in line.

good for you...change your habits!

69 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:17:51am

re: #38 Capitalist Tool

The 11th commandment?
would that be:
'a new commandment I give unto you that you love one another as I have loved you'?

No the 11th commandment as handed down to us by Saint Ray-Gun is that no Conservative shall ever bad mouth another conservative.

Trufax!

70 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:17:54am

re: #61 researchok

'Street scuffles'? Is that what you call mass riots, some of which last for days and weeks?

We have riots in the US, too, though.

Again: Do you have any statistics, or is this just your impression?


The guy was crazy. If it were really about rhetoric being responsible for violence, there would be a whole lot more violence.

That doesn't really make much sense. Do you not believe there is any connection between violent rhetoric and actual violence? None at all?

71 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:18:03am

This piece of rightwing historical dialectics I found the funniest: Sarah Palin is Emma Goldman

72 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:18:32am

re: #48 albusteve

it's like playing Russian Roulette tho...sooner or later there will be a round ahead of the pin

If that were true, there would be a lot more politically inspired violence.

The guy was crazy.

Yes, he wore the cloak of right wing ideologies, but that was only the delivery vehicle he chose to exercise his insanity.

73 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:18:59am

re: #56 Dreggas

What a dumbass.

On an OT note. I quit smoking today. Trying to post it everywhere I hang out so I keep myself in line.

Best of luck to you on that. I quit about 6 months ago... regrettably, I picked it back up a month ago because of a crapload of stress, but back on the patch again.

You can do it!

74 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:19:00am

re: #67 Walter L. Newton

Congrats... have a cigar on me!

I stopped cold over three years ago. If you need any tips what worked for me... ask... anytime.

What worked?

I'm thinking of buddying up with Dreggas and quitting today myself... been thinking about it for years, might as well.

75 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:19:34am

re: #64 Obdicut

Why don't you think so?

[Video]

ha!...good one, like 68 never crossed my mind!....why don't you think I don't think so?

76 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:19:54am

re: #64 Obdicut

Now wait a minute. If I'm not allowed to reach back forty years into history so that I can libel Dems/Liberals, you're not allowed to do that.
:P

77 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:20:01am

re: #74 Capitalist Tool

Do it. Second-best decision of my life. There's so many positive benefits. You'll breath easier, sleep easier, taste foods better, have more energy, have more money. It's a tough, tough thing but what a reward when you succeed.

Good luck.

78 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:20:59am

re: #34 researchok

Compared to other democracies.

Europe has far more political violence than we do.

And of course we get left out again. :)

Always having to go "hey you down there. What about us?"

(I kid)


I had to actually look this up because I actually couldn't recall any assassinations or even attempts from Canadian history. There was an MP Thomas Darcy MgGee in 1868, the FLQ crisis in the 70's which could be construed as sort of assassination plot and that's about all I can come up with. Labor strife in the early 20th cen got quite violent, we've had a couple of violent (but small FN's conflicts) in recent memory. Some protest like the one in Toronto this past summer that got a bit rougher then usual and well.... That's all I could come up with, recently anyways. There could be more but I'd have to look harder. It's barely even in the common consciousnous to even remember.

I think if something like what happened in AZ happened here or heaven forbid someone tried to take out the PM or did Canadians would lose their minds because this type of thing just doesn't seem to 'ever' happen. There's not even any past common history of dealing with it to go on like there is in the US.

79 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:21:45am

re: #77 Obdicut

gracias..

Dreggas- sign me up in your support network... I just threw my can o' tobacco in the trash

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:22:14am

re: #5 Obdicut

What I am really not getting about the 'debate' over the violent rhetoric, the calls for violence, the dehumanizing statements-- what is the purpose of defending them? What good are they? For those who are reacting to the calls to tone down the rhetoric with anger and defensiveness-- what is there to defend or protect that's worthwhile?

I really don't get it.

They're on a roll. They like the language, it's getting results, and they want to go on using it. This means that they cannot admit that it could be a problem.

As I said, Emmanuel Cleaver is saying exactly what I would like all American politicians to be saying right now, and I can't recall one crazy thing he's said recently. He's not talking parties, he's talking Congress, and constituents, and America.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:22:29am

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth

Only because she knows she can't get away with calling him a muslim.
/half

Wait.

82 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:22:29am

re: #74 Capitalist Tool

What worked?

I'm thinking of buddying up with Dreggas and quitting today myself... been thinking about it for years, might as well.

I have the patch and I have a bag of "Dum-dums" (they're those little lolli-pops you can buy in 3lb bags at target). I also recommend the quit smoking site on about.com. I quit for 3 months once and that place helped. Unfortunately I fell off the wagon, now 2 years later I am back on the wagon officially.

To everyone else, thanks for the encouragement. Need people's support and help to keep me going.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:22:54am

re: #11 Big Steve

And now Westboro gets into the act. I literally cannot stand the thought that these people are going to be at that little girls funeral. And I mean seriously I cannot bear the thought of it...

Westboro to Protest at Arizonia Killing Funerals

They should only burn in hell, and the good part is, someday they will.

84 tradewind  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:22:55am

Think the prof just might have the best take on this entire mess.
"His thoughts were unrelated to anything in our world".
[Link: www.slate.com...]

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:23:20am

re: #73 MrSilverDragon

Yeah, quitting is easy.

It's the "never picking up another smoke" thing that is a real mutha-fucker.

86 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:23:24am

re: #79 Capitalist Tool

Shoot me an email any time. I am listing it to be shown.

87 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:23:29am

re: #50 elizajane

Sarah "Poor Little Me" Palin e-mails to Glen Beck, "I hate violence" and "Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Even on Politico the comment thread is one collective "bwahahaha".

I never thought that Caribou Barbie could be any more of a hypocritical, self-aggrandizing attention whore.

I guess I was wrong. Wow.

88 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:23:39am

re: #70 Obdicut

We have riots in the US, too, though.

Again: Do you have any statistics, or is this just your impression?

That doesn't really make much sense. Do you not believe there is any connection between violent rhetoric and actual violence? None at all?

the post clearly stated politically motivated violence....you intentionally ignore that factoid....you don't make any sense, I don't understand you....do you have any stats to prove we have more politically motivated riots than Europe?

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:24:09am

re: #13 jamesfirecat

With any luck they'll be drowned out by a pack of people standing right behind them play vuvuzelas... that's what happened when they protested in West Virginia if memory serves...

West Virginia kicked ass when the Phelpses went out there. They had guys yelling Bible verses at them, dancing...it was great.

90 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:24:18am

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, quitting is easy.

It's the "never picking up another smoke" thing that is a real mutha-fucker.

I used to joke about the difficulty by saying "All I have to do is not smoke – how hard could that be, to not do something?"

91 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:25:04am

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, quitting is easy.

It's the "never picking up another smoke" thing that is a real mutha-fucker.

Yeah, I quit for 3 months straight once and all it took was one cig to get me back to a pack a day. I also recommend using QuitKeeper (google it) it's handy and tracks your progress.

From others and from experience I know the biggest thing is commitment, ya may want to check out [Link: cognitivequitting.com...] for more tips.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:25:20am

re: #27 Alouette

The Phelps cult will know they are dead and in Hell when...

nobody pays any attention to them.

It's really hard when they pull shit like this.

I'm having some very violent fantasies right now about how I'd like to handle this situation.

93 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:25:30am

re: #72 researchok

If that were true, there would be a lot more politically inspired violence.

The guy was crazy.

Yes, he wore the cloak of right wing ideologies, but that was only the delivery vehicle he chose to exercise his insanity.

I say this: political rhetoric alluding to violence is rude, and for that reason alone it should be dropped....how's that?

94 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:25:36am

re: #74 Capitalist Tool

I quit 28 years ago. Really glad I did. Go for it.

95 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:25:48am

re: #74 Capitalist Tool

What worked?

I'm thinking of buddying up with Dreggas and quitting today myself... been thinking about it for years, might as well.

Get rid of all the peripheral material... ash trays, lighters, relocate your computer, get a lot of diet soda, go to the gym or exercise more, anything physical, walk, relocate any place you liked to smoke... if you sat on the sofa at a certain spot, move... sit somewhere else, take all stuff out of your car...

And for the first week, you're just going to have to bear it.

And it's never going to stop. Just when you think you got it beat, you're going to do something you haven't done in a while, and it can be a trigger to want to smoke.

The last time I was in Paris (Jan. 2007) was the last time I smoked in Paris... I was doing 3 packs a day and downing a crap load of French coffee... cause I had stopped drinking a few years before that.

So, cigs and coffee was my "drugs" there. Now, I'm going back to Paris in a few days... and I am dying to have a smoke... see... the power of chemical and habits, Paris and coffee and smokes... I haven't had such a big urge to smoke like I have right now since I stopped.

A three year old trigger which I hadn't had to deal with... now I do.

96 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:06am

most violent political talk(mainstream) is usually nothing but nonsensical hyperbole,usually to attract attention.Most folks write it off for what it is.
That being said,the loons and zealots see it differently.Some see it as marching orders,anyone in a position of stating opinion in a public setting should measure their words carefully.Unfortunately the current bomb throwing seems to be the way to get on the major media outlets.

97 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:15am

re: #76 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Aren't we discussing the history of political violence?

If we're talking about the present moment, we just had a political leader assasinated. We also had riots at the 2000 DNC, riots in Cincinnati after a police shooting in 2001. Oh what the hell, here's a bunch of riots:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And again: street riots are a hell of a lot more common in Europe. I totally agree with that. But the US has a terrible, terrible history of political violence, in terms of assassinations and racial violence.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:16am

re: #36 shades

Like the guy that believed a satirical article that said Justine Bieber was supportive of the "ground zero mosque" and ended up breaking his daughter's heart after going public with it, badmouthing a 16-year-old kid over a fake internet rumor.

He just didn't want to have to pay for tickets to the concert for her.

/

99 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:24am

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, quitting is easy.

It's the "never picking up another smoke" thing that is a real mutha-fucker.

so true...I do it periodically just to prove it...but it's better than nothing

100 mr.fusion  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:40am

re: #82 Dreggas


Quitting smoking's easy....I've done it dozens of times

101 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:42am

re: #70 Obdicut

We have riots in the US, too, though.

Again: Do you have any statistics, or is this just your impression?

That doesn't really make much sense. Do you not believe there is any connection between violent rhetoric and actual violence? None at all?

Just in the last few months:

London, Paris, Rome, Athens, Madrid, Lyons, Stuttgart, Gorleben and Moscow.

I don't believe we had that many major riots in here, unless CNN didn't bother to report on them.

There were also riots in China but I wanted to focus on Europe

By comparison, we have very little in the way of political violence.

If rhetoric alone were the primary cause of violence, we'd have a whole lot more of it.

Loughner was way more crazy than he was political.

102 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:53am

re: #88 albusteve

the post clearly stated politically motivated violence...you intentionally ignore that factoid...you don't make any sense, I don't understand you...do you have any stats to prove we have more politically motivated riots than Europe?

I don't think we have more politically motivated riots than Europe, so why would have any stats to prove that, Steve?

103 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:26:59am

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, quitting is easy.

It's the "never picking up another smoke" thing that is a real mutha-fucker.

A-frickin'-men.

104 wee fury  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:00am

OK.
The shooter.
He is evil.
That is all I need to know about him.
. . . . as far as WHY he is evil --
I don't

105 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:02am

re: #56 Dreggas

What a dumbass.

On an OT note. I quit smoking today. Trying to post it everywhere I hang out so I keep myself in line.


For some reason I can't ding that far back up thread!
So in a virtual reality 1000 up dings!
...Not good luck...Great Luck!!

106 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:08am

re: #40 Boondock St. Bender

lord knows she hasn't ever used gun inspired hyperbole before
And of course her often seen use of surveying tools on her reality show.

Remember that episode where she found the exact latitude and longitude location of a caribou? She's like living GPS, I tell you. She surveyed the hell out of that animal.

107 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:32am

re: #101 researchok

If rhetoric alone were the primary cause of violence, we'd have a whole lot more of it.

Who on earth is claiming rhetoric alone is the primary cause of violence?

108 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:38am

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

agreed whole-heartedly.

109 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:42am

re: #86 Dreggas

done deal

110 Kragar  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:56am

Looks like Rush is going the "he smoked pot so he must be a liberal" track.

111 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:00am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

It's really hard when they pull shit like this.

I'm having some very violent fantasies right now about how I'd like to handle this situation.

LOL...join the club
I want to go Rambo on those freaks

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:24am

re: #91 Dreggas

The only thing that keeps me off smoking is regular exercise. After my hernia surgery, the exercise stopped and the smoking started again.

I may get back on program, but I'm not motivated at the moment.

113 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:24am

re: #91 Dreggas

Yeah, I quit for 3 months straight once and all it took was one cig to get me back to a pack a day. I also recommend using QuitKeeper (google it) it's handy and tracks your progress.

From others and from experience I know the biggest thing is commitment, ya may want to check out [Link: cognitivequitting.com...] for more tips.

Wife had quit for 5 years, then in the 70s she smoked one to PRACTICE for our big marijuana adventure. We both shitcanned the pot in a couple months, but it took her another 10 years to shake the tobacco.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:39am

re: #71 000G

This piece of rightwing historical dialectics I found the funniest: Sarah Palin is Emma Goldman

And yet, if I had written a piece before this, charging Goldman with complicity in the assassination, I'm sure this person would have found my reasoning sound.

115 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:42am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Looks like Rush is going the "he smoked pot so he must be a liberal" track.

Someone let P.J. O'Rourke know that he's a liberal.

116 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:47am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Looks like Rush is going the "he smoked pot so he must be a liberal" track.

An OxyContin addict suggesting that drug use = liberalism?

That should be entertaining.

117 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:28:54am

re: #109 Capitalist Tool

And you have my email any time you want to write... my name is alway blue.

118 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:29:12am

re: #93 albusteve

I say this: political rhetoric alluding to violence is rude, and for that reason alone it should be dropped...how's that?

I do not disagree in the least- but that is a long way from blaming stupid rhetoric as a the primary cause of political violence

119 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:29:27am

re: #115 Obdicut

Someone let P.J. O'Rourke know that he's a liberal.

And Glenn Beck...

120 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:29:29am

re: #118 researchok

I do not disagree in the least- but that is a long way from blaming stupid rhetoric as a the primary cause of political violence

Again: Who has done this?

121 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:29:40am

re: #111 albusteve

but that would be wrong....
Cy Tolliver- HBO's Deadwood

122 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:30:01am

re: #121 Boondock St. Bender

but that would be wrong...
Cy Tolliver- HBO's Deadwood


and Richard M. Nixon

123 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:30:11am

re: #102 Obdicut

I don't think we have more politically motivated riots than Europe, so why would have any stats to prove that, Steve?

I've moved on, lost interest

124 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:30:45am

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

West Virginia kicked ass when the Phelpses went out there. They had guys yelling Bible verses at them, dancing...it was great.

I loved it when they got pwn3d at Comic Con.

125 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:30:52am

I quit once for over six months and was running every day, etc. I was already in otherwise great physical shape at the time and could literally jog all day long.

Then one night, all half- crocked down at the watering hole, one 'hey pal, can I bum a smoke' was all it took.

126 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:30:52am

re: #107 Obdicut

Who on earth is claiming rhetoric alone is the primary cause of violence?

Apologies- rhetoric is the least likely cause for increased violence.

127 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:31:04am

re: #118 researchok

I do not disagree in the least- but that is a long way from blaming stupid rhetoric as a the primary cause of political violence

No, it's crazy ideas that are the primary cause of political violence. The rhetoric, that's just how the ideas propagate.

128 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:31:33am

re: #106 Fozzie Bear

Remember that episode where she found the exact latitude and longitude location of a caribou? She's like living GPS, I tell you. She surveyed the hell out of that animal.

no way...how is that entertainment?...she's an idiot, maybe even dangerous

129 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:31:44am

re: #126 researchok

Apologies- rhetoric is the least likely cause for increased violence.

The least likely? Out of what group of things is it the 'least' likely?

130 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:31:57am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Looks like Rush is going the "he smoked pot so he must be a liberal" track.

As lawhawk pointed out, all the rightwing arguments have three basic forms:

1) Tu quoque: The other side has done similar things that are bad in a similar way, therefore we cannot so bad after all, can we?
2) No True Scotsman: Anything bad that has been done was nothing that was in any way shape or form reflective of, informed or influenced by anything from our side simply because we are essentially good. Note: They will limit the bad to the strictly undeniable criminal and what passes for "leftwing" in their eyes.
3) How dare you politicize this!

131 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:32:01am

re: #124 Alouette

I loved the bender robot next to them with the "KILL ALL HUMANS" sign

132 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:32:07am

re: #128 albusteve

no way...how is that entertainment?...she's an idiot, maybe even dangerous

The legend is she was able to locate Russia from her house. That's some serious surveying.

133 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:32:47am

re: #124 Alouette

NSFW due to the Phelps's terrible language, but hilarious:

Image: fred-phelps-1.jpg

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:06am

re: #132 Fozzie Bear

The legend is she was able to locate Russia from her house. That's some serious surveying.

That's where she got her experience with surveying graphics.

135 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:14am

re: #132 Fozzie Bear

The legend is she was able to locate Russia from her house. That's some serious surveying.

And that's all it is. Legend.

It was Tina Fey who said that.

Sarah Palin may be a moron, but she never said it.

136 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:26am

re: #97 Obdicut

I'm talking about you linking a forty-two year old incident to make a point about present day. If I reached that far back to sling an arrow at Dems/Liberals, I would have my ass handed to me.

Also, I was being a smart ass. You weren't supposed to take my reply all that seriously.

137 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:26am

The best (immediately deleted) post on Palin's facebook page I have seen:

"Sarah, I can see the end of your political career from my house."

138 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:53am

re: #132 Fozzie Bear

She pointed west and said"Thataways'...you betcha'"

139 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:53am

re: #116 Lidane

An OxyContin addict suggesting that drug use = liberalism?

That should be entertaining.

he kicked his addiction...and what does that have to do with pot?
goofing on addicts former and present is not cool

140 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:34:19am

re: #135 MrSilverDragon

still funny though...

141 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:34:29am

re: #127 Fozzie Bear

No, it's crazy ideas that are the primary cause of political violence. The rhetoric, that's just how the ideas propagate.

EXACTLY

For the lunatics out there, the rhetoric serves as the cloak, or delivery vehicle for violence. In addition to the winger crap he espoused, the guy was obsessed with grammar.

Who know? Maybe my old English teacher set him off...
/

142 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:34:46am

re: #136 Slumbering Behemoth

I wasn't trying to talk about the present day, though. I was talking about our society's long struggle with political violence, which carries through to today.

Thus my confusion.

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:35:17am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Looks like Rush is going the "he smoked pot so he must be a liberal" track.

Smoke pot = Liberal
Abuse illegally acquired pills = Conservative

It's so simple, a caveman could do it.

144 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:35:28am

re: #129 Obdicut

The least likely? Out of what group of things is it the 'least' likely?

His crazy was far more significant an influence than his politics

145 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:35:32am

re: #132 Fozzie Bear

The legend is she was able to locate Russia from her house. That's some serious surveying.

yes, the sun makes a fine directional instrument, if you can master it's use

146 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:35:46am
147 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:36:30am

re: #116 Lidane

An OxyContin addict suggesting that drug use = liberalism?

That should be entertaining.

He got his housekeeper to buy them, that makes him a rightly.

148 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:37:13am

re: #141 researchok

For the lunatics out there, the rhetoric serves as the cloak, or delivery vehicle for violence. In addition to the winger crap he espoused, the guy was obsessed with grammar./

I think you are missing the point, still. Fozzie clearly mentioned crazy ideas, the same which the Right has busily been mainstreaming.

149 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:37:22am

re: #141 researchok

EXACTLY

For the lunatics out there, the rhetoric serves as the cloak, or delivery vehicle for violence. In addition to the winger crap he espoused, the guy was obsessed with grammar.

Who know? Maybe my old English teacher set him off...
/

The grammar thing is more then likely a anti-government thing as well. It's connected with everything else.

150 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:37:45am

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

And you have my email any time you want to write... my name is alway blue.

Thanks, Walter.

I've never been able to figure out how to keep the email 'blue' and keep forgetting to check that box.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:37:57am

re: #115 Obdicut

Someone let P.J. O'Rourke know that he's a liberal.

Then stand back.

152 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:38:03am

re: #144 researchok

His crazy was far more significant an influence than his politics

Is that why he assassinated a politician?

Just because he was crazy, doesn't mean this wasn't entirely about his politics.

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:38:22am

re: #142 Obdicut

Again, I was being a smart ass. Don't waste your time my comment, it wasn't that important.

154 Kragar  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:38:51am

re: #131 Boondock St. Bender

I loved the bender robot next to them with the "KILL ALL HUMANS" sign

Saw a sign "I have no problem with God, its his Fan Club I can't stand."

155 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:39:14am

re: #144 researchok

His crazy was far more significant an influence than his politics

Crazy=Gas Pedal
Politics= Steering Wheel

156 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:39:16am

re: #139 albusteve

he kicked his addiction...and what does that have to do with pot?
goofing on addicts former and present is not cool

I don't care if he kicked his addiction. The fact that he's seriously going to try to suggest that smoking weed is proof that the gunman was a liberal is asinine. And for an addict to try and say that drug use = liberalism is stupid. That would make Rush a liberal.

157 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:39:16am

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

Smoke pot = Liberal
Abuse illegally acquired pills = Conservative

It's so simple, a caveman could do it.


[Link: www.theonion.com...]

158 Big Steve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:39:40am

re: #135 MrSilverDragon

And that's all it is. Legend.

It was Tina Fey who said that.

Sarah Palin may be a moron, but she never said it.


yes the actual quote is...."They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:40:05am

re: #154 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Saw a sign "I have no problem with God, its his Fan Club I can't stand."

I suspect that if Time ran their "God Is Dead" cover again, the Phelpses would want to picket the funeral.

They don't seem all that interested in God. Their hate is their highest authority.

160 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:40:17am

re: #116 Lidane

An OxyContin addict suggesting that drug use = liberalism?

That should be entertaining.

"It was satire, people. Satire"
- Rush Limbaugh

161 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:41:01am

re: #148 000G

re: #149 Jadespring

re: #152 Fozzie Bear

Are you all saying that his politics was the drive behind his actions?

That all GOP and even TP agendas will eventually end up yielding violence?

162 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:41:18am

re: #160 Slumbering Behemoth

"It was satire, people. Satire"
- Rush Limbaugh

Just like Glenn Beck's entire career. Only not, since the joke's on all of us. =P

163 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:41:25am

re: #160 Slumbering Behemoth

"It was satire, people. Satire"
- Rush Limbaugh

''Obama's got a health care logo that's right out of Adolf Hitler's playbook ... Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate.'' -Rush Limbaugh

Also 'satire', apparently.

164 Big Steve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:41:40am

re: #130 000G

As lawhawk pointed out, all the rightwing arguments have three basic forms:

1) Tu quoque: The other side has done similar things that are bad in a similar way, therefore we cannot so bad after all, can we?
2) No True Scotsman: Anything bad that has been done was nothing that was in any way shape or form reflective of, informed or influenced by anything from our side simply because we are essentially good. Note: They will limit the bad to the strictly undeniable criminal and what passes for "leftwing" in their eyes.
3) How dare you politicize this!

as far as I can see the arguement used by all sides of the political spectrum is "hurrah for our side"

165 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:42:03am

re: #146 Stanley Sea

The Murdered

Yes!!
The VICTIMS of insanity, murderous insanity.
Making political "Hay" is sick and wrong beyond the pale!
Left ,right or where ever...........

166 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:42:39am

re: #158 Big Steve

yes the actual quote is..."They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

I stand corrected, I was thinking of the "I can see Russia from my house" thing. My hackles are standing down now.

167 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:44:13am

re: #164 Big Steve

as far as I can see the arguement used by all sides of the political spectrum is "hurrah for our side"

I am not cheering for the Left, believe you me.

168 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:44:22am

re: #158 Big Steve

yes the actual quote is..."They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

That was the point when I realized that no satire can touch her.

169 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:44:52am

re: #161 researchok

re: #149 Jadespring

re: #152 Fozzie Bear

Are you all saying that his politics was the drive behind his actions?

That all GOP and even TP agendas will eventually end up yielding violence?

No, I am suggesting that violent ideologies, such as that being supported by parts of the right, lead to violent outcomes. It's also kind of absurd to postulate that the assassination of a politician, committed by someone obsessed with abortion, the gold standard, and dismantling of the government, has little to do with politics. That he was crazy was just the reason he actually did it.

Can you imagine a political assassination in which the killer isn't on some level insane? Do we have to wait for a sane person to start shooting people over politics? (as if that's something that can happen with sane people)

170 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:45:00am

re: #166 MrSilverDragon

I stand corrected, I was thinking of the "I can see Russia from my house" thing. My hackles are standing down now.

Wait, I stand corrected on standing corrected, the original quote was the house thing.

(no, I'm not trying to pad my post count. honest)

171 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:45:34am

re: #156 Lidane

I don't care if he kicked his addiction. The fact that he's seriously going to try to suggest that smoking weed is proof that the gunman was a liberal is asinine. And for an addict to try and say that drug use = liberalism is stupid. That would make Rush a liberal.

the whole premise hardly deserves any comment, but post away...my point was that he kicked his addiction and that's no small thing that you so easily dismiss...I have a nice addiction myself to opiates I've consumed over the past 2 1/2 years that I have to deal with soon....addiction does not deserve your snide snarky comments...legal or not...try putting yourself in his shoes, or mine for that matter and show a little humanity

172 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:45:40am

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

I suspect that if Time ran their "God Is Dead" cover again, the Phelpses would want to picket the funeral.

They don't seem all that interested in God. Their hate is their highest authority.

The Phelps Phreaks think that everything is all about them.

173 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:46:35am

re: #161 researchok

re: #149 Jadespring

re: #152 Fozzie Bear

Are you all saying that his politics was the drive behind his actions?

That all GOP and even TP agendas will eventually end up yielding violence?

No, I am not saying that, and I do not know what "drive" is supposed to mean. I think the Right has a problem with crazy ideas and the mainstreaming of them from what used to be extremist fringe, and they ought to confront it. But they won't, because it would end their populist momentum.

174 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:47:03am

re: #172 Alouette

The Phelps Phreaks think that everything is all about them.

The Phelps father is 81 years old. How the hell can they plan his funeral?

175 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:47:04am

re: #70 Obdicut

[Link: info.worldbank.org...]

176 webevintage  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:47:30am

re: #165 reloadingisnotahobby

Yes!!
The VICTIMS of insanity, murderous insanity.
Making political "Hay" is sick and wrong beyond the pale!
Left ,right or where ever...

It is so easy to paint him as a schizophrenic and move on, all the while ignoring fucking Loughner's nihilist views or the fact that he parroted much of what he said and wrote from the website of a right-wing sovereign citizen group.
If we decide he is crazy then those who make maps with cross-hairs on politician's districts or suggest "second amendment remedies" or who agitate from either side of the political spectrum though the use of violent rhetoric or images or "come shoot an M16 with your TeaParty candidate" will not have to take a step back and consider that what they do contribute to the environment that might flip that switch in someone like Loughner "into overdrive".

177 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:47:54am

re: #166 MrSilverDragon

I stand corrected, I was thinking of the "I can see Russia from my house" thing. My hackles are standing down now.

From the outer Islands of the Aleutians I believe you can see Russian
Territory from American soil...
These are the Islands where several hundred American Soldiers lost there lifes while trying to extract the Japnese from AMERICAN SOIL!
Very seldom ever taught in school...........

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:48:18am

re: #146 Stanley Sea

The Murdered

Ow.

179 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:49:19am

re: #119 ralphieboy

And Glenn Beck...

And Rand Paul...

180 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:50:11am

re: #171 albusteve

I've been around addicts and alcoholics. Done the 12-step meeting thing, and all that. I have empathy for his addiction, since I've seen how devastating it can be for some folks. Hell, my grandfather died from his alcoholism. He'd quit drinking years before he died, but by then it was too late and the damage to his body was done.

The addiction isn't the issue. It's Rush's blatant hypocrisy at suggesting that a drug user is automatically a liberal that's both asinine and a serious case of casting stones from a glass house.

181 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:50:15am

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Since year here now...

The movie. First off I really can't remember it in great detail because overall it was just generally crappy. But here are my lasting impressions.

It wasn't anything like I imagine it was from everything I'd heard about it. Yes it was about a GWB assassination but the actual event was just the spawning point for the rest of it. It was a mockumentary of what happened after with everyone trying to sort out why and who. The liberal bias was discenable but wasn't as blatant in your face as I expected. If I was to peg it I'd say it what they were attempting to do was show all of the stuff to do with Muslims and Islam at the time and it's relation to how people percieve the War on Terror. Basically most assumed "Muslim' and when a suspect was identified who happened to be Muslim he was basically skewered and convicted of the crime. It showed how that happened through the press, assumptions, racism bias etc. In the end it wasn't him that did it, it was a black guy that was upset at losing his job or something like that and if I remember correctly the movie ended with him still in jail and people going 'what the hell, how did this happen exactly?"

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:50:28am

re: #169 Fozzie Bear

No, I am suggesting that violent ideologies, such as that being supported by parts of the right, lead to violent outcomes. It's also kind of absurd to postulate that the assassination of a politician, committed by someone obsessed with abortion, the gold standard, and dismantling of the government, has little to do with politics. That he was crazy was just the reason he actually did it.

Can you imagine a political assassination in which the killer isn't on some level insane? Do we have to wait for a sane person to start shooting people over politics? (as if that's something that can happen with sane people)

Von Stauffenberg may have been nuts in some sense, but he was pretty rational. Sane people do carry out political assassinations. But that's an abstract. In the present climate, here, in this country? You gotta be nuts. Or at least, very, very delusional.

183 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:50:29am

re: #177 reloadingisnotahobby

From the outer Islands of the Aleutians I believe you can see Russian
Territory from American soil...
These are the Islands where several hundred American Soldiers lost there lifes while trying to extract the Japnese from AMERICAN SOIL!
Very seldom ever taught in school...

and a very close in, tough fight...the Japanese were essentially abandoned there and fought to the last man....and none of the American troops had any combat experience at that point...sadly few recall any of it

184 Lidane  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:51:25am

re: #176 webevintage

If we decide he is crazy then those who make maps with cross-hairs on politician's districts or suggest "second amendment remedies" or who agitate from either side of the political spectrum though the use of violent rhetoric or images or "come shoot an M16 with your TeaParty candidate" will not have to take a step back and consider that what they do contribute to the environment that might flip that switch in someone like Loughner "into overdrive".

Pretty much.

185 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:52:04am

re: #180 Lidane

I've been around addicts and alcoholics. Done the 12-step meeting thing, and all that. I have empathy for his addiction, since I've seen how devastating it can be for some folks. Hell, my grandfather died from his alcoholism. He'd quit drinking years before he died, but by then it was too late and the damage to his body was done.

The addiction isn't the issue. It's Rush's blatant hypocrisy at suggesting that a drug user is automatically a liberal that's both asinine and a serious case of casting stones from a glass house.

yeah I know that...I just got a bit steamed there for a second, nothing personal

186 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:57:10am

re: #169 Fozzie Bear

No, I am suggesting that violent ideologies, such as that being supported by parts of the right, lead to violent outcomes. It's also kind of absurd to postulate that the assassination of a politician, committed by someone obsessed with abortion, the gold standard, and dismantling of the government, has little to do with politics. That he was crazy was just the reason he actually did it.

Can you imagine a political assassination in which the killer isn't on some level insane? Do we have to wait for a sane person to start shooting people over politics? (as if that's something that can happen with sane people)

As someone right of center, I can tell you the ideas you are advocating will ensure another GOP win in 2012.

With the exception of a minuscule numbers, GOP'ers and even TP's are not violent, do not espouse violence or condone violence. To remotely imply their beliefs are somehow even marginally responsible for violence will be regarded as an insult. The conservatives will not by into that meme- nor should they. Grandmas and grandpas who showed up at townhall meetings to voice their opinions are not all racists, bigots and stupid- and they resented being portrayed that way. They made that clear to their critics on election day.

It is one thing to focus on rhetoric. I agree with that as a matter of principle. However, to conflate rhetoric with political ideologies is quite another matter.

187 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:58:08am

The salt mines beckon and I have to change into my whirling dervish overalls.

BBL.

188 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:59:15am

#175 lawhawk

[Link: info.worldbank.org...]

According to that, we're below most of the first-world nations in political stability and lack of violence.

189 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:00:15pm

re: #186 researchok

If the GOP doesn't condone violence, why don't they, you know, stop using the violent rhetoric and condoning its use?

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:04:30pm

re: #177 reloadingisnotahobby

From the outer Islands of the Aleutians I believe you can see Russian
Territory from American soil...
These are the Islands where several hundred American Soldiers lost there lifes while trying to extract the Japnese from AMERICAN SOIL!
Very seldom ever taught in school...

My grandfather was stationed on Attu and Kiska during the war.

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:05:35pm

re: #181 Jadespring

Since year here now...

The movie. First off I really can't remember it in great detail because overall it was just generally crappy. But here are my lasting impressions.

It wasn't anything like I imagine it was from everything I'd heard about it. Yes it was about a GWB assassination but the actual event was just the spawning point for the rest of it. It was a mockumentary of what happened after with everyone trying to sort out why and who. The liberal bias was discenable but wasn't as blatant in your face as I expected. If I was to peg it I'd say it what they were attempting to do was show all of the stuff to do with Muslims and Islam at the time and it's relation to how people percieve the War on Terror. Basically most assumed "Muslim' and when a suspect was identified who happened to be Muslim he was basically skewered and convicted of the crime. It showed how that happened through the press, assumptions, racism bias etc. In the end it wasn't him that did it, it was a black guy that was upset at losing his job or something like that and if I remember correctly the movie ended with him still in jail and people going 'what the hell, how did this happen exactly?"

Thanks. Sounds...weird.

192 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:06:05pm

re: #189 Obdicut

If the GOP doesn't condone violence, why don't they, you know, stop using the violent rhetoric and condoning its use?

Because it is very very effective and helped them take back the House.

193 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:16:44pm

re: #186 researchok

As someone right of center, I can tell you the ideas you are advocating will ensure another GOP win in 2012.

With the exception of a minuscule numbers, GOP'ers and even TP's are not violent, do not espouse violence or condone violence. To remotely imply their beliefs are somehow even marginally responsible for violence will be regarded as an insult. The conservatives will not by into that meme- nor should they. Grandmas and grandpas who showed up at townhall meetings to voice their opinions are not all racists, bigots and stupid- and they resented being portrayed that way. They made that clear to their critics on election day.

It is one thing to focus on rhetoric. I agree with that as a matter of principle. However, to conflate rhetoric with political ideologies is quite another matter.

Thank you.

Many many folks are very angry over this incident, and I am too. Not a single one of my many conservative FB buddies have done anything but post of their disgust at this incident, and prayers and condolences for those killed and injured.

And what you say is absolutely true - some folks anger is causing them to equate the current rhetorical violence of many GOP politicians, with conservative ideology. And that's going down the same lunacy path, IMO, as this killer did.

194 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:19:32pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout

Nobody has said, though, that all the people that went to townhalls are racists, bigots, or stupid.

And I haven't seen anyone here conflate the evil rhetoric used by the GOP with conservative ideology.

195 garhighway  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:21:37pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout

Thank you.

Many many folks are very angry over this incident, and I am too. Not a single one of my many conservative FB buddies have done anything but post of their disgust at this incident, and prayers and condolences for those killed and injured.

And what you say is absolutely true - some folks anger is causing them to equate the current rhetorical violence of many GOP politicians, with conservative ideology. And that's going down the same lunacy path, IMO, as this killer did.

What were your conservative FB buddies saying about the "2nd amendment remedies" and "watering the tree of liberty" rhetoric when that was so common?

196 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:45:55pm

re: #194 Obdicut

Nobody has said, though, that all the people that went to townhalls are racists, bigots, or stupid.

And I haven't seen anyone here conflate the evil rhetoric used by the GOP with conservative ideology.

Some folks are getting very very close.
Step back and look at it.
re: #195 garhighway

What were your conservative FB buddies saying about the "2nd amendment remedies" and "watering the tree of liberty" rhetoric when that was so common?

Well - is there a reason why you think this is pertinent? I thought the discussion was how conservatives (and moving from rhetoric into ideology) was responsible for this guy's actions.

BUT - Yes, there have been discussion among my conservative buddies, and mostly agreed the hateful rhetoric needs to be toned down.

Don't ask me for a link, 'cause I'm not gonna give you a link to my FB pages, you can forget it. So it's a matter of - are you going to believe me? Based on the way you phrased that question, I suspect NOT, your mind seems to have been made up that we're all EEEVEEEL gun nuts who are ready to shoot up the world.
Your choice, though.

197 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:54:31pm

re: #189 Obdicut

If the GOP doesn't condone violence, why don't they, you know, stop using the violent rhetoric and condoning its use?

Because it's all they've got, and their existence without the ability to espouse violent rhetoric consists of political ass-whupping in perpetuity.

And if they lost the violent rhetoric they'd actually have to put forth some kind of plan to actually govern, and this current crop of Republicans is nowhere near competent enough to do that.

198 garhighway  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:55:48pm

re: #196 reine.de.tout

Some folks are getting very very close.
Step back and look at it.
re: #195 garhighway

Well - is there a reason why you think this is pertinent? I thought the discussion was how conservatives (and moving from rhetoric into ideology) was responsible for this guy's actions.

BUT - Yes, there have been discussion among my conservative buddies, and mostly agreed the hateful rhetoric needs to be toned down.

Don't ask me for a link, 'cause I'm not gonna give you a link to my FB pages, you can forget it. So it's a matter of - are you going to believe me? Based on the way you phrased that question, I suspect NOT, your mind seems to have been made up that we're all EEEVEEEL gun nuts who are ready to shoot up the world.
Your choice, though.

I think it is sad, and a reflection of how the day is going, that I get the presumption of ill will after asking a simple question.

If your answer is "yes, we talked about that and generally didn't like it", that's good enough for me.

I do not presume your ill will, nor do I presume that of your friends. I am sincerely interested in whether they viewed that sort of talk as harmless, or for that matter whether that sort of talk was even on their radar screen. For a lot of people I am sure that it wasn't.

So, to the extent that you took offense, I apologize. My question was meant in good faith. Maybe on a different day you would take it that way.

199 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:59:45pm

re: #198 garhighway

I think it is sad, and a reflection of how the day is going, that I get the presumption of ill will after asking a simple question.

If your answer is "yes, we talked about that and generally didn't like it", that's good enough for me.

I do not presume your ill will, nor do I presume that of your friends. I am sincerely interested in whether they viewed that sort of talk as harmless, or for that matter whether that sort of talk was even on their radar screen. For a lot of people I am sure that it wasn't.

So, to the extent that you took offense, I apologize. My question was meant in good faith. Maybe on a different day you would take it that way.

Sorry, then, my apologies.
I'm very upset at some of the comments, a very few to be sure, but some seem to be of the "conservatives are all eeeeeveeeeel!!!11y", and, well, we're not. We're your family and friends.

I'm holding onto a narrow ledge trying to keep my head in place and not let my emotions take over, and so - my apologies.

200 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:00:47pm

This is what passes for journalism these days. Hoft is a sorry pos.

201 garhighway  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:02:18pm

re: #199 reine.de.tout

Sorry, then, my apologies.
I'm very upset at some of the comments, a very few to be sure, but some seem to be of the "conservatives are all eeeveeel!!!11y", and, well, we're not. We're your family and friends.

I'm holding onto a narrow ledge trying to keep my head in place and not let my emotions take over, and so - my apologies.

This has been tough for everyone who loves this country and prizes civil discourse.

Hang in there: in another couple of days we'll be back to arguing about health care reform and offshore drilling!

202 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:02:57pm

re: #201 garhighway

This has been tough for everyone who loves this country and prizes civil discourse.

Hang in there: in another couple of days we'll be back to arguing about health care reform and offshore drilling!

Much easier topics to discuss, eh?
:-)

203 garhighway  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:04:25pm

re: #202 reine.de.tout

Much easier topics to discuss, eh?
:-)

We'll still argue passionately, but it won't be quite as nasty.

At any rate, have a good day. Take a deep breath. And maybe a shot of vodka. Works for me.

204 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:48:01pm

So Jim Hoft is sort of a second-rate right wing Dan Rather (without most of Rather's real accomplishments)? Not much credibility lies therein.

205 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:12:12pm

re: #204 palomino

So Jim Hoft is sort of a second-rate right wing Dan Rather (without most any of Rather's real accomplishments)? Not much credibility lies therein.

FTFY

206 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:13:00pm

re: #204 palomino

He's like Dan Rather, if Rather was a semi-literate religious fanatic with terminal homophobia.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh