Glenn Beck Says 9/11 Truthers Are Dangerous, But Guest Host of Beck’s Show is a Truther

Wingnuts • Views: 34,923

I’d normally rather have a root canal than watch Glenn Beck’s show, but today I wanted to see how he would try to spin away all responsibility for his insane extremist rhetoric. And sure enough, he came up with a real jaw-dropper. Here’s a screenshot; these are the people he thinks are really, really dangerous (not him):

I almost couldn’t believe this one.

Because Beck has had a 9/11 Truther guest hosting his show, and more than once: Judge Andrew Napolitano, who went on the Alex Jones conspiracy show and said:

It’s hard for me to believe that it (Building 7) came down by itself … I think twenty years from now, people will look at 9-11 the way we look at the assassination of JFK today. It couldn’t possibly have been done the way the government told us.

The takeaway: Glenn Beck’s show is extremely dangerous. He says so himself.

Jump to bottom

283 comments
1 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:32:21pm

Can I diagnose Glenn Beck over the intertubes?

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:32:39pm

Well, we already know how to handle #2. We’ll let Buzz Aldrin handle it.

3 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:32:50pm

re: #1 ggt

Can I diagnose Glenn Beck over the intertubes?

No…

4 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:33:34pm

Those who live in John Birch houses should not throw conspiracy stones.

5 Kragar  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:33:57pm

Sorry, I’m busy laughing because the sidebar adds are from Goldline.

6 Kronocide  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:34:01pm

4 People who just ask questions

7 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:34:04pm

Should be interesting to watch Alex Jones over this; he went after Beck a lot in the past for condemning truthers. The latest spin on his radio show seems to be that Loughner was “mind controlled” in order to kill the Judge John Roll.

8 mr.fusion  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:34:36pm

I put on his radio show this morning at 9AM just to have a listen……..

Strange is the only way to put it…..I mean, he started talking about how he was at Spiderman and his security detail was there with him. But it wasn’t just the story….it was his tone and inflection. Very very weird.

9 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:34:54pm

re: #7 000G

Should be interesting to watch Alex Jones over this; he went after Beck a lot in the past for condemning truthers. The latest spin on his radio show seems to be that Loughner was “mind controlled” in order to kill the Judge John Roll.

Does he have a side-business selling tin-foil hats?

10 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:35:06pm

re: #1 ggt

Can I diagnose Glenn Beck over the intertubes?

I’m guessing multiple personality disorder.

11 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:35:32pm

re: #10 prononymous

I’m guessing multiple personality disorder.

Walter said I can’t comment.

12 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:36:00pm

Fox remains the only news network to employ 9-11 Truthers. They have two. All other networks combined: 0

13 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:36:35pm

re: #9 ggt

Does he have a side-business selling tin-foil hats?

No, but he has been selling/promoting survivalist stuff for years.

14 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:37:07pm

re: #1 ggt

Can I diagnose Glenn Beck over the intertubes?

That would be soooo outrageous! Ur not Doktor! U haz no right!
/My placenta hutz

15 jaunte  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:37:13pm

re: #9 ggt

Gold-foil hats only.

16 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:37:42pm

re: #15 jaunte

Gold-foil hats only.

ah!

17 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:38:25pm

A lot of Beck’s appeal is pure identity politics, along with his lowbrow showmanship. “Beck is a white bible-believing Christian just like me. He hates the govt and liberals just like me. He wants to turn the country back to the Happy Days of the 1950s just like me.”

Thus his constant logical inconsistencies can be forgiven, if not just overlooked completely.

18 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:39:10pm

is STUPID an actual diagnosis?

19 Locker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:39:29pm

I love how he puts number three (a position) in with number 1 and 2 (fantasy). Gotta give it to those demolibs whenever he can.

20 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:40:00pm

re: #17 palomino

The crowd that swallows his bilge can’t even see the logical inconsistencies. They’re nearly child-like in that regard.

21 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:40:05pm

re: #18 ggt

is STUPID an actual diagnosis?

I think we can all agree on that.

22 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:40:58pm

re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth

The crowd that swallows his bilge can’t even see the logical inconsistencies. They’re nearly child-like in that regard.

children aren’t stupid, just children.

Please don’t disrespect all the little children by comparing them to Beck.

23 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:41:16pm

re: #18 ggt
90% Nucking Futs…10% off his meds and believes
EVERYTHING HE READS on the internet!

24 Kid Skeeter  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:41:51pm

Why isn’t pimping gold every five seconds on his list?

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:42:25pm

re: #22 ggt

children aren’t stupid, just children.

Please don’t disrespect all the little children by comparing them to Beck.

No, I was comparing them to Beck’s viewers. Sort of in the way kids can believe in Santa Claus despite all the logical inconsistencies surrounding the myth.

26 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:42:47pm

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

No, I was comparing them to Beck’s viewers. Sort of in the way kids can believe in Santa Claus despite all the logical inconsistencies surrounding the myth.

ah!

27 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:43:59pm

re: #23 reloadingisnotahobby

90% Nucking Futs…10% off his meds and believes
EVERYTHING HE READS on the internet!

Were you talking about Beck or Laughner??
Either way………

28 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:45:36pm

re: #17 palomino

A lot of Beck’s appeal is pure identity politics, along with his lowbrow showmanship. “Beck is a white bible-believing Christian just like me. He hates the govt and liberals just like me. He wants to turn the country back to the Happy Days of the 1950s just like me.”

Thus his constant logical inconsistencies can be forgiven, if not just overlooked completely.

yes

it’s not any more complex than that “He makes noises we like, he hates who we hate, and he looks like us.”

it’s just that simple!

29 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:46:14pm

re: #28 WindUpBird

yes

it’s not any more complex than that “He makes noises we like, he hates who we hate, and he looks like us.”

it’s just that simple!

It’s been a profitable game for Beck. We’ll see how long it lasts.

30 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:47:03pm

re: #28 WindUpBird

yes

it’s not any more complex than that “He makes noises we like, he hates who we hate, and he looks like us.”

it’s just that simple!

That’s how Skinny Puppy hooked me.

31 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:47:36pm

re: #29 ggt

It’s been a profitable game for Beck. We’ll see how long it lasts.

It’s lasted a very long time on radio, but he’s a better TV guy than a radio guy

I think he’s here to stay, I used to believe he’d go too far and get fired, I don’t think that anymore.

Glenn beck is The New Normal!

32 William of Orange  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:47:48pm

Tom DeLay, three years behind bars…..


….until a Republican president pardons him of course….

33 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:10pm

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

That’s how Skinny Puppy hooked me.

I wish I looked as cool as Ogre :D


I’m always the worst dressed guy at their shows, all the awesome looking pretty people, and I just look like a dork in a hoodie

34 Kid Skeeter  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:35pm

re: #29 ggt

The clock is ticking. WOR in NYC dumped him, as did a station in Philly. Last time I checked, New York City and Philadelphia are big markets.

35 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:47pm

re: #32 William of Orange

Tom DeLay, three years behind bars…

…until a Republican president pardons him of course…

does a president have to pardon him? or can a governor do it?

36 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:52pm

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

That’s how Skinny Puppy hooked me.

yer inta Skinny Puppy?
Walter, you never cease to amaze

37 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:55pm

re: #32 William of Orange

Can’t a state governor pardon him?

38 William of Orange  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:56pm

re: #32 William of Orange

Tom DeLay, three years behind bars…


…until a Republican president pardons him of course…

Newslink.

39 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:48:57pm

re: #32 William of Orange

Tom DeLay, three years behind bars…


…until a Republican president pardons him of course…


Your implying a change in Administration ….Know something we don’t?

40 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:49:40pm

re: #33 WindUpBird

I wish I looked as cool as Ogre :D

I’m always the worst dressed guy at their shows, all the awesome looking pretty people, and I just look like a dork in a hoodie

Of course… you took my comment as humor. I don’t even know what the group looks like.

41 darthstar  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:49:48pm

re: #32 William of Orange

Tom DeLay, three years behind bars…

…until a Republican president pardons him of course…

Tom DeLay’s going to be on “Dancing with the Bars?”

43 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:50:18pm

re: #34 Kid A

The clock is ticking. WOR in NYC dumped him, as did a station in Philly. Last time I checked, New York City and Philadelphia are big markets.

WOR ain’t his market.

Places like Provo are his market. Same as Limbaugh.

44 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:50:42pm

re: #39 reloadingisnotahobby

Your implying a change in Administration …Know something we don’t?

My only concern with a possible change in administration is that the next IANSA shin-dig is in 2012. Our representation at the UN will be very important on that point. YOU know the wingnuts are going to be all over it.

scary.

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:50:55pm

re: #36 Capitalist Tool

yer inta Skinny Puppy?
Walter, you never cease to amaze

He’s goofing on me a bit, i think, I’m the 20-year puppy fan ;-)

46 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:51:18pm

re: #42 000G

Tumbleweed: A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)

That has SO got to be him.

47 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:52:11pm

re: #46 Fozzie Bear

That has SO got to be him.

I think so, too.

48 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:52:13pm

re: #28 WindUpBird

yes

it’s not any more complex than that “He makes noises we like, he hates who we hate, and he looks like us.”

it’s just that simple!

It shouldn’t be anywhere near that simple, but it often is.

49 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:53:11pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

Of course… you took my comment as humor. I don’t even know what the group looks like.

sometimes he looks like this: [Link: img79.imageshack.us…]

50 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:53:40pm

re: #48 palomino

It shouldn’t be anywhere near that simple, but it often is.

POPPPULISSSSMMMM

51 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:54:20pm

re: #50 WindUpBird

POPPPULISSSMMM

Mob Mentality?

52 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:54:31pm

re: #11 ggt

Walter said I can’t comment.

He’s not the boss of you. Do as you please.

Though he is right to a degree. Internet and water cooler diagnoses are based on the poor stereotyped “understanding” that most people have about mental illness. The way the media and public in general portrays and perceives mental illness is very misleading. Most mentally ill people are not dangerous or violent. But this whole media circus certainly isn’t going to help that perception - especially if the shooter, or Beck for that matter, really is mentally ill. In reality many of your coworkers, friends, and family members may suffer silently with a mental disorder because of the stigma attached to it by our society.

53 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:54:54pm

Well a lot of truthers are dangerously stupid but I don’t think that’s what Glen meant.

54 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:55:57pm

re: #46 Fozzie Bear

That has SO got to be him.

Probably but he didn’t invent those nutty ideas about grammar and math himself.

“His writings will be virtually impossible for most people to understand, what with his references to unexplained numbers, his fondness for weird syllogisms, his unexplained references and his apparent semi-literacy,” writes Mark Potok, a hate group analyst at the Southern Poverty Law Center, on his blog.

But Mr. Potok notes that government debasement of the currency is a tenet of antigovernment “Patriot” movement extremist groups, and that Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller has long held that the government uses grammar to enslave Americans, and that if an individual adds colons and hyphens to their name in a certain way, they are no longer required to pay taxes.

Miller’s ideas may seem loony “but he has a real following on the right,” writes Potok.

55 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:57:49pm

re: #46 Fozzie Bear

That has SO got to be him.

That boy is lifetime job security for a shrink.

Or two.

56 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:58:13pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

“and that if an individual adds colons and hyphens to their name in a certain way, they are no longer required to pay taxes.”

This one really has me. WTF?

g-gt:

Is it worth chaning my nick to get out of paying taxes?

57 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:58:37pm

re: #52 prononymous

On a less serious note….
Does that apply to my “Water Cooler Pharmacist”…I hope not ,cause
I’m on my way now!
Off to Wally World friends!
Remember “Peace through Superior Cutlery” !
…or something lik…………..

58 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:59:38pm

re: #42 000G

Tumbleweed: A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)

Lovely… the blind leading the blind… I’m looking over a few of those “Articles” and what’s most amazing are the people who are trying to answer him, work with him, understand him as if there is anything fucking there to understand.

Holy shit. I spent most of the 60’s and 70’s dealing with these topics, and yes, there was some crazy stuff we dealt with in the area of UFO’s, conspiracy, Fortean topics, cryptozoology, paranormal phenomena and so on.

But at least we had sentences and paragraphs that contained recognizable progressions of thought, ideas and theory, right or wrong, silly or not, you could experience it from beginning to end and walk away with an understanding of the premise put forth.

This crap is gibberish, answered with gibberish and they all seem to be as sincere as a summers day.

If “the truth is out there” then it’s in dire need of psychiatric help.

59 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:59:48pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I totally agree, he didn’t get that shit from nowhere. His rantings are a very close match to the rantings of David Wynn Miller.

60 Locker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:00:36pm

re: #11 ggt

Walter said I can’t comment.

That should probably be a motivator to comment as much as you can just to piss him off. It’s not hard, he gets pissed off if his oatmeal isn’t exactly 100 degrees.

61 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:00:41pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Probably but he didn’t invent those nutty ideas about grammar and math himself.

When Potok mispronounced “Icke” on air the other day, I was disappointed somehow…

62 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:00:59pm

re: #49 WindUpBird

sometimes he looks like this: [Link: img79.imageshack.us…]

Oh please… it looks like something out of Criss Angel’s show. Did you really need to show me that?

63 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:01:34pm

re: #60 Locker

That should probably be a motivator to comment as much as you can just to piss him off. It’s not hard, he gets pissed off if his oatmeal isn’t exactly 100 degrees.

Er… piss off.

64 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:01:35pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

If “the truth is out there” then it’s in dire need of psychiatric help.

Long term residential help.

65 Jack Burton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:01:40pm

re: #49 WindUpBird

sometimes he looks like this: [Link: img79.imageshack.us…]

Last time I saw SP live, he looked like this:

Image: img_5006.jpg

66 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:02:27pm

re: #65 ArchangelMichael

Last time I saw SP live, he looked like this:

Image: img_5006.jpg

gotta like the cap

67 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:02:33pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

Lovely… the blind leading the blind… I’m looking over a few of those “Articles” and what’s most amazing are the people who are trying to answer him, work with him, understand him as if there is anything fucking there to understand.

Holy shit. I spent most of the 60’s and 70’s dealing with these topics, and yes, there was some crazy stuff we dealt with in the area of UFO’s, conspiracy, Fortean topics, cryptozoology, paranormal phenomena and so on.

But at least we had sentences and paragraphs that contained recognizable progressions of thought, ideas and theory, right or wrong, silly or not, you could experience it from beginning to end and walk away with an understanding of the premise put forth.

This crap is gibberish, answered with gibberish and they all seem to be as sincere as a summers day.

If “the truth is out there” then it’s in dire need of psychiatric help.

You might also find this enlightening: Logic Puzzle – Jared Lee Loughner’s philosophy professor reflects on the shooting in Arizona and The Philosophy of Jared Lee Loughner

68 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:02:48pm

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

I watched some of David Wynn Miller’s lectures earlier. Very close to Loughner’s videos posted on youtube. It does make me wonder about his mental issues. He might not be as crazy as he appears. Maybe he just adopted this nutty philosophy that made him appear crazy.

69 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:02:59pm

re: #65 ArchangelMichael

Last time I saw SP live, he looked like this:

Image: img_5006.jpg


Is he the Dunce??
LOL

70 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:03:01pm

re: #64 researchok

Long term residential help.

And I was not diagnosing anyone… I was suggesting that a professional look into that :)

71 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:03:50pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

I watched some of David Wynn Miller’s lectures earlier. Very close to Loughner’s videos posted on youtube. It does make me wonder about his mental issues. He might not be as crazy as he appears. Maybe he just adopted this nutty philosophy that made him appear crazy.

Then we agree. He has to be nuts on some level to do what he did, but that doesn’t mean he got there on his own.

72 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:04:32pm

re: #60 Locker

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

hahaaa

73 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:04:52pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

I watched some of David Wynn Miller’s lectures earlier. Very close to Loughner’s videos posted on youtube. It does make me wonder about his mental issues. He might not be as crazy as he appears. Maybe he just adopted this nutty philosophy that made him appear crazy.

These Sovereign Citizen types are not exclusively American, btw. That type is even seen here in Germany: [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

74 Jack Burton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:05:54pm

re: #69 reloadingisnotahobby

Is he the Dunce??
LOL

Yeah and there was a hose attached to his costume so that smoke was coming out of the top of that dunce hat.

75 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:06:00pm

re: #67 000G

You might also find this enlightening: Logic Puzzle – Jared Lee Loughner’s philosophy professor reflects on the shooting in Arizona and The Philosophy of Jared Lee Loughner

Weigel’s take is pretty good.

And to the point.

76 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:06:02pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

He’s goofing on me a bit, i think, I’m the 20-year puppy fan ;-)

I remember really liking The Killing Game. Was that the name of the album or just the song on it?

77 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:06:19pm

re: #9 ggt

Does he have a side-business selling tin-foil hats?

No, gold-foil hats!

78 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:06:19pm

re: #67 000G

You might also find this enlightening: Logic Puzzle – Jared Lee Loughner’s philosophy professor reflects on the shooting in Arizona and The Philosophy of Jared Lee Loughner

Guys been reading too much Umberto Eco… and not getting it.

79 simoom  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:06:46pm

Jared Lee Loughner’s booking-photo / Mugshot (weird expression & shaved head):
[Link: www.tmz.com…]

80 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:07:09pm

re: #15 jaunte

Gold-foil hats only.

Geez, everbody’s beating me to my one-liners today.

81 Gus  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:08:03pm

re: #79 simoom

Jared Lee Loughner’s booking-photo / Mugshot (weird expression & shaved head):
[Link: www.tmz.com…]

His hair sure grows fast.

82 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:08:12pm

re: #71 Fozzie Bear

Then we agree. He has to be nuts on some level to do what he did, but that doesn’t mean he got there on his own.

See Weigel’s take.

It looks increasingly like Loughner’s obsession with Giffords, as the politician he harbored the grudge towards, was an accident of place and districting. How would any politician have answered a meaningless question like “

83 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:08:21pm

re: #75 researchok

Weigel’s take is pretty good.

And to the point.

I wouldn’t credit Weigel with any insight on this. I would expect him to obfuscate and find excuses for the wingers, as he does here:

It looks increasingly like Loughner’s obsession with Giffords, as the politician he harbored the grudge towards, was an accident of place and districting.
84 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:08:33pm

re: #75 researchok

Weigel’s take is pretty good.

And to the point.

Yes… and the more and more we learn about him… the more and more he’s sounding like a far right libertarian wacko.

85 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:09:48pm

re: #81 Gus 802

His hair sure grows fast.

Maybe a Rogaine or Hair Club for Inmates endorsement in his future.

86 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:10:35pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

Yes… and the more and more we learn about him… the more and more he’s sounding like a far right libertarian wacko.

Oh, yeah, he’s major league off balance.

87 simoom  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:10:47pm

re: #81 Gus 802

His hair sure grows fast.

I suppose the court artist’s rendition could be consistent with two days of growth.

88 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:11:42pm

I’m telling you guys, that mug shot shows us that he is really Uncle Fester’s evil twin.

89 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:11:48pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

I wouldn’t credit Weigel with any insight on this. I would expect him to obfuscate and find excuses for the wingers, as he does here:

Why would you say that?

He’s basing his remarks on people who knew him.

90 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:11:49pm

re: #75 researchok

Weigel’s take is pretty good.

And to the point.

Well, yeah, you would, because Weigel argues that no one, no matter the party, could have answered his questions. But then there is this:

Loughner smoked pot as a teenager, but Tierney says he had quit by the fall of 2008. After he got clean, “his theories got worse.” He became increasingly angry with the government, although Tierney notes that Loughner did not support a particular political movement or party.

[Link: dailycaller.com…]

The Daily Caller author, Will Rahn, fails to take note which movement/party stoked the anti-government flames in the last couple of years.

91 Gus  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:12:08pm

re: #87 simoom

I suppose the court artist’s rendition could be consistent with two days of growth.

Yes. I’m sure it’s accurate like the information that was coming out immediately after the shooting.

92 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:12:09pm

That screen cap from Beck’s show just has me speechless.

Someone needs to explain to him that without “Big Government Solution”, we would have never made it to the moon.

93 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:12:11pm

From the Weigel link

Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a “fake.” Loughner’s animus toward Giffords intensified after he attended one of her campaign events and she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer a question he had posed, Tierney says. He also describes Loughner as being obsessed with “lucid dreaming”—that is, the idea that conscious dreams are an alternative reality that a person can inhabit and control—and says Loughner became “more interested in this world than our reality.” Tierney adds, “I saw his dream journal once. That’s the golden piece of evidence. You want to know what goes on in Jared Loughner’s mind, there’s a dream journal that will tell you everything.”

94 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:12:46pm

re: #92 RadicalModerate

That screen cap from Beck’s show just has me speechless.

Someone needs to explain to him that without “Big Government Solution”, we would have never made it to the moon.

Hehe yeah, that’s some pretty crushing irony.

95 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:13:23pm

re: #93 Capitalist Tool

I would love to see that journal.

96 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:13:25pm

re: #92 RadicalModerate

That screen cap from Beck’s show just has me speechless.

Someone needs to explain to him that without “Big Government Solution”, we would have never made it to the moon.

Or ended WWII, or freed the slaves, or … . .

It’s a fine balance and we live it like no where else on the planet.

98 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:14:15pm

re: #95 Fozzie Bear

I would love to see that journal.

no lie

99 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:14:33pm

re: #90 000G

Well, yeah, you would, because Weigel argues that no one, no matter the party, could have answered his questions. But then there is this:

[Link: dailycaller.com…]

The Daily Caller author, Will Rahn, fails to take note which movement/party stoked the anti-government flames in the last couple of years.

I’ve been consistent- clearly, the guy was a right wing freak.

One idea does not obviate the other. He was banarama.

100 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:14:53pm

re: #81 Gus 802

His hair sure grows fast.

Well, the booking photo would have been from Saturday, so he’d probably have some stubble by today.

101 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:15:10pm

re: #97 Stanley Sea

Check out this sign on the hospital lawn in Tucson

Holy crap what kind of crazy HTML is that you are pasting?

Also, I like that sign. Right on point.

102 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:15:13pm

re: #89 researchok

Why would you say that?

He’s basing his remarks on people who knew him.

I say that because Weigel seems to have much affection for the fringe on the right. What you see as “basing his remarks on people who knew him”, I see as “selecting remarks to make his point.”

104 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:15:50pm

I’m off for my afternoon nap.

Have a great evening all!

105 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:16:43pm

re: #101 Fozzie Bear

Hell if I know, just my typical cut & pasty

106 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:17:11pm

re: #102 wrenchwench

I say that because Weigel seems to have much affection for the fringe on the right. What you see as “basing his remarks on people who knew him”, I see as “selecting remarks to make his point.”

Probably some of that, but in the end I agree with most of his thoughts.

Overall, the guy was incoherent.

107 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:17:59pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Here’s the video: Beck: “I Could Tell You” AZ Shooter “Is A Textbook Study Of Everybody I’ve Warned Against,” But It’s Not The Truth

It’s also ironic that Beck says the killer believed Bush was responsible for 9-11 but Beck often includes Bush as a progressive conspirator who was part of the Cloward Piven plot.

108 Kid Skeeter  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:18:34pm

Esther scribbled sent Beck an email…

I hate violence. I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence. Thanks for all you do to send the message of truth and love and God as the answer. -Sarah

109 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:19:49pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

It’s also ironic that Beck says the killer believed Bush was responsible for 9-11 but Beck often includes Bush as a progressive conspirator who was part of the Cloward Piven plot.

LOOK AT THE MONKEY! LOOK AT THE SILLY LITTLE MONKEY!

110 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:24:05pm

Has there been actually been anything that suggests that Loughner is a truther?

111 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:26:31pm

re: #110 Jadespring

Has there been actually been anything that suggests that Loughner is a truther?

I’ve read/listened to/watched everything at his YouTube channel, just read the articles linked to on this thread by 000G and have read every article I can find about him and the shooting… and I can say at this point… no. I don’t even think Jared is conscience.

112 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:27:19pm

re: #110 Jadespring

Has there been actually been anything that suggests that Loughner is a truther?


AP report


Mistrust of government was Loughner’s defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system (“a New World Order currency” one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.
113 simoom  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:27:27pm

Audio of Commander Scott Kelly, from the International Space Station, brother-in-law to Rep. Giffords:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]

As I look out the window, I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.

These days, we are constantly reminded of the unspeakable acts of violence and damage we can inflict upon one another, not just with our actions but also with our irresponsible words.

We are better than this. We must do better.

…

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:27:33pm

re: #110 Jadespring

Has there been actually been anything that suggests that Loughner is a truther?

There is this piece by the AP:

Mistrust of government was Loughner’s defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system (“a New World Order currency” one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

[Link: www.google.com…]

Dunno how they substantiated that, though. It looks like it could have been just hearsay.

115 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:28:01pm

re: #108 Kid A

Esther scribbled sent Beck an email…

I hate violence. I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence. Thanks for all you do to send the message of truth and love and God as the answer. -Sarah

This is the still instigating violence that is Sr. Sarah.

116 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:28:22pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

I agree… it’s highly doubtful that he could logically attach his thinking to any sort of philosophy.

117 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:29:33pm

re: #116 Capitalist Tool

I agree… it’s highly doubtful that he could logically attach his thinking to any sort of philosophy.

Well… Killgore may have scooped us… re: #112 Killgore Trout

118 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:29:55pm

re: #116 Capitalist Tool

I agree… it’s highly doubtful that he could logically attach his thinking to any sort of philosophy.

No, factually incorrect. You seem to presume that a philosophy neccessarily has to be coherent, sane, rational or explicable in some way. That is not the case.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:30:15pm

I’m not really sure how people who don’t believe in the moon landing are ‘dangerous’. Delusion, paranoid, deeply irritating…but dangerous? HOW? Just because they don’t believe what the government agencies tell them, Glenn?

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:30:45pm

re: #1 ggt

Can I diagnose Glenn Beck over the intertubes?

I can. He’s Glenn Beck. And there is no known cure.

He, and we, are gonna have to live with it.

121 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:31:00pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

This echoes the looneypants “new world order” talk we heard so much of during the Clinton years. It never went away.

122 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:32:44pm

Cognitive dissonance doesn’t matter much to demagogues and morons…

123 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:32:59pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m not really sure how people who don’t believe in the moon landing are ‘dangerous’. Delusion, paranoid, deeply irritating…but dangerous? HOW? Just because they don’t believe what the government agencies tell them, Glenn?

Yeah I don’t get how they are anything but dumb. It’s not like they say “the moon landing is fake, therefore we have to overthrow the government”. It’s no more dangerous than, for instance, believing that the government is going to round people up in camps.

Oh, wait, it’s a fuckload LESS dangerous than that.

124 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:33:12pm

re: #115 Stanley Sea

Somehow peace, truth, love and God aren’t the first things that come to mind when I see Glenn Beck. Or Sarah Palin. There must be something wrong with me. //

125 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:33:55pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

Yes I haven’t seen anything in his actual writings and videos.

re: #112 Killgore Trout

AP report

re: #112 Killgore Trout

AP report

So just hearsay at this point. Not that it really matters all that much. A lot of new world order peeps have some sort of version of a government conspiracy around 9/11 in the theory. Various levels of ‘trutherness’. Pretty much ANY major event has to get connected into NWO theory somehow. It’s just a given.

Heck I know one truther who was trying to explain to me how this shooting is obviously part of the USian NWO plot. Basically the CIA orchastrated it.

126 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:34:10pm

re: #118 000G

No, factually incorrect. You seem to presume that a philosophy neccessarily has to be coherent, sane, rational or explicable in some way. That is not the case.

Is Windows Vista a philosophy?

127 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:34:42pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

I can. He’s Glenn Beck. And there is no known cure.

He, and we, are gonna have to live with it.

Sure there is….when his ratings and what advertisers he has left go away.

In today’s political climate, that may be a while yet, but time catches up with everyone eventually.

128 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:34:45pm
Mistrust of government was Loughner’s defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system (“a New World Order currency” one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

That piece by the AP (which makes Loughner sound way too coherent IMHO) is kind of in contradiction to this interview by MotherJones:

Tierney notes that Loughner did not display any specific political or ideological bent: “It wasn’t like he was in a certain party or went to rallies…It’s not like he’d go on political rants.” But Loughner did, according to Tierney, believe that government is “fucking us over.” He never heard Loughner vent about the perils of “currency,” as Loughner did on one YouTube video he created.

[Link: motherjones.com…]

Too much hearsay.

129 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:34:46pm

re: #67 000G

You might also find this enlightening: Logic Puzzle – Jared Lee Loughner’s philosophy professor reflects on the shooting in Arizona and The Philosophy of Jared Lee Loughner

In Weigel’s article, he says, “Nick Baumann talked to Bryce Tierney, a friend of Loughner, and he’s able to explain the importance of Loughner’s obsession with the meaning of words.”, then he pastes in a quote from Baumann, but does not provide a link. Could that be because he’d have to link to Mother Jones, and that might upset his readers, or he doesn’t want to be caught basing his position on information from such a source?

130 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:34:55pm

re: #118 000G

No, factually incorrect. You seem to presume that a philosophy neccessarily has to be coherent, sane, rational or explicable in some way. That is not the case.

That is ostensibly correct, but I don’t think this guy had it together enough to maintain coherence about any idea.
That he could obsess on an issue is without doubt. That he could tell you why, coherently, that he felt as he did about a belief he may have held is questionable.

131 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:35:10pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

Is Windows Vista a philosophy?

You may regret sending me off on a Windows rant. Refraining, for now.

132 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:36:11pm

re: #124 CuriousLurker

Somehow peace, truth, love and God aren’t the first things that come to mind when I see Glenn Beck. Or Sarah Palin. There must be something wrong with me. //

Not even “Dear god, I love you so much please protect me from your followers?”

133 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:36:32pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

In Weigel’s article, he says, “Nick Baumann talked to Bryce Tierney, a friend of Loughner, and he’s able to explain the importance of Loughner’s obsession with the meaning of words.”, then he pastes in a quote from Baumann, but does not provide a link. Could that be because he’d have to link to Mother Jones, and that might upset his readers, or he doesn’t want to be caught basing his position on information from such a source?

Nicely spotted. Kind of stumbled over that but failed to register enough to take expressive note. I think you are right, Weigel is afraid of Mother Jones’ cooties.

134 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:36:34pm

re: #125 Jadespring

Yes I haven’t seen anything in his actual writings and videos.

re: #112 Killgore Trout

re: #112 Killgore Trout

So just hearsay at this point. Not that it really matters all that much. A lot of new world order peeps have some sort of version of a government conspiracy around 9/11 in the theory. Various levels of ‘trutherness’. Pretty much ANY major event has to get connected into NWO theory somehow. It’s just a given.

Heck I know one truther who was trying to explain to me how this shooting is obviously part of the USian NWO plot. Basically the CIA orchastrated it.

That’s always an option.

135 KingKenrod  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:36:56pm

Believing in conspiracy theories is a defense mechanism. If you think everyone is trying to control you or fool you, you don’t have to examine their evidence, and so you don’t have to run the risk of having your world view challenged.
Those who dismiss global warming without examining the evidence are the same way. Change is hard.

136 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:36:59pm

re: #131 Fozzie Bear

You may regret sending me off on a Windows rant. Refraining, for now.

I just got Windows 7. Do I want to ask you about that?

I’m a tech Neanderthal.

137 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:37:20pm

re: #133 000G

Nicely spotted. Kind of stumbled over that but failed to register enough to take expressive note. I think you are right, Weigel is afraid of Mother Jones’ cooties.

I wouldn’t trust right wing sources either.

138 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:37:32pm

re: #132 jamesfirecat

Not even “Dear god, I love you so much please protect me from your followers?”

LOL—okay, in that case I’d have to agree!

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:37:55pm

re: #123 Fozzie Bear

Yeah I don’t get how they are anything but dumb. It’s not like they say “the moon landing is fake, therefore we have to overthrow the government”. It’s no more dangerous than, for instance, believing that the government is going to round people up in camps.

Oh, wait, it’s a fuckload LESS dangerous than that.

I mean, I wouldn’t want to get stuck next to one of these people at a party, or the DMV or something, but I don’t think they’re dangerous.

140 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:38:59pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

In Weigel’s article, he says, “Nick Baumann talked to Bryce Tierney, a friend of Loughner, and he’s able to explain the importance of Loughner’s obsession with the meaning of words.”, then he pastes in a quote from Baumann, but does not provide a link. Could that be because he’d have to link to Mother Jones, and that might upset his readers, or he doesn’t want to be caught basing his position on information from such a source?

He may not have linked to MJ because it may have induced a reaction.
//

141 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:39:13pm

re: #136 researchok

I just got Windows 7. Do I want to ask you about that?

I’m a tech Neanderthal.

7 is ok, as MS products go, imo. It’s the design philosphy that drives me bonkers. The way it works under the hood is maddening, to say the least.

142 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:39:18pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

I mean, I wouldn’t want to get stuck next to one of these people at a party, or the DMV or something, but I don’t think they’re dangerous.

They’re a little dangerous, they drip mild acid on the trust that has to hold the people and their government together.

143 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:40:58pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

They’re a little dangerous, they drip mild acid on the trust that has to hold the people and their government together.

I agree. It’s a subtle corrosive effect on the ties that bind us together. I have no doubt that the government has done some very nasty things. That doesn’t mean that the vast majority of government workers aren’t trying really hard to do the right thing. They really are.

144 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:41:14pm

re: #141 Fozzie Bear

7 is ok, as MS products go, imo. It’s the design philosphy that drives me bonkers. The way it works under the hood is maddening, to say the least.

How long have you been tech savvy?

And are the Tech for Dummies helpful?

145 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:41:19pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

I mean, I wouldn’t want to get stuck next to one of these people at a party, or the DMV or something, but I don’t think they’re dangerous.

More dangerous for the non-believer really…

Youtube Video
146 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:42:18pm

Fox falls back on “Both sides do it”

147 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:42:21pm

re: #143 Fozzie Bear

‘Zakley.

148 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:42:26pm

re: #133 000G

Nicely spotted. Kind of stumbled over that but failed to register enough to take expressive note. I think you are right, Weigel is afraid of Mother Jones’ cooties.

He’s have nightmares for weeks.

149 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:42:42pm

re: #136 researchok

I just got Windows 7. Do I want to ask you about that?

I’m a tech Neanderthal.

Windows 7 is actually a pretty stable platform.
I run copies on machines that never have failed/crashed while running flat-out (f@h) for weeks.
Win7 handles multi- threaded/multi- core tasks much better than XP.
It still suffers from the IE curse.

150 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:43:08pm

re: #135 KingKenrod

Believing in conspiracy theories is a defense mechanism. If you think everyone is trying to control you or fool you, you don’t have to examine their evidence, and so you don’t have to run the risk of having your world view challenged.
Those who dismiss global warming without examining the evidence are the same way. Change is hard.

Well for some it’s not just just refusing to examine evidence. Many spend a whole lot of time examining evidence. They just draw conclusions differently because they go in with the assumption of what it will show, and twist it to meet those assumptions. It’s really weird because some of these people are quite educated and rational on so many other counts.

151 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:43:29pm
Tea Party Express Fundraises Off Giffords Shooting: ‘Tea Party Won’t Be Silenced’

TPM

152 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:43:39pm

re: #149 Capitalist Tool

Windows 7 is actually a pretty stable platform.
I run copies on machines that never have failed/crashed while running flat-out (f@h) for weeks.
Win7 handles multi- threaded/multi- core tasks much better than XP.
It still suffers from the IE curse.

I use Chrome. Before that Firefox.

Chrome is great.

153 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:43:54pm

re: #144 researchok

How long have you been tech savvy?

And are the Tech for Dummies helpful?

If you want to learn how these things work, you need some kind of general guide to lay the groundwork before googling things is sufficiently illuminating to mean anything to you. The “for dummies” books aren’t a bad place to start. What, in particular, do you want to learn how to do? (there are some great intro guides on the web for specific topics)

I’ve been playing with / taking apart / building /programming computers as long as I can remember. My parents got me a Commodore 64 when I was about 9, and I have been totally hooked ever since.

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:45:12pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

They’re a little dangerous, they drip mild acid on the trust that has to hold the people and their government together.

OK, but if that’s considered the standard of danger, I would say that Glenn Beck himself is WAY more dangerous than some eejit ranting about shadows going the wrong way on pictures.

155 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:45:50pm

re: #152 researchok

I use Chrome. Before that Firefox.

Chrome is great.

IE is not your friend. As with any browser, clean your Chrome cache often.

156 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:46:45pm

re: #152 researchok

I use Chrome. Before that Firefox.

Chrome is great.

Apart from some REALLY bad security flaws early on, Chrome is a great browser. (They have since fixed the security flaws.)

157 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:47:35pm

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, but if that’s considered the standard of danger, I would say that Glenn Beck himself is WAY more dangerous than some eejit ranting about shadows going the wrong way on pictures.

There’s a good chance that he will contribute a little to a few deaths. There’s an extremely small chance that he will potentiate events that will leave a lot of people dead.

158 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:47:51pm

Who cannot see the backtracking, reverse blame and paranoia of the right wing right now? Gah. I’m so disgusted.

Good ole Sr. Sarah must have tipped off TMZ about her stalker from a few months ago. She’s scared of him again. (I believe he’s in jail)

The timing, the sleaziness, the bullshit.

OK, I’m over my limit.

159 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:49:19pm

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, but if that’s considered the standard of danger, I would say that Glenn Beck himself is WAY more dangerous than some eejit ranting about shadows going the wrong way on pictures.

And thermite. It seems to always come down to thermite…..

160 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:49:39pm

The gun imagery and violent rhetoric isn’t as troubling to me as this stuff…..

More: Beck On AZ Shooting: Is The Left “Creating” Or “Exploiting” This Issue?


When people really believe this stuff they become dangerous.

161 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:49:44pm

re: #153 Fozzie Bear

If you want to learn how these things work, you need some kind of general guide to lay the groundwork before googling things is sufficiently illuminating to mean anything to you. The “for dummies” books aren’t a bad place to start. What, in particular, do you want to learn how to do? (there are some great intro guides on the web for specific topics)

I’ve been playing with / taking apart / building /programming computers as long as I can remember. My parents got me a Commodore 64 when I was about 9, and I have been totally hooked ever since.

My interests are really common.

I want to keep my computer efficient and I want to be able tinker with the program (W7) so that I can have it evolve to my needs.

For example, when I set this thing up apparently I required a password to get into windows. That is a pain in the ass when I boot up. I want to know how to fix that and other similar type stuff as time progresses.

Another thing that drives me nuts are the mic/sound card settings.

Like I said, I’m a tech Neanderthal.

162 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:51:11pm

re: #135 KingKenrod

Believing in conspiracy theories is a defense mechanism. If you think everyone is trying to control you or fool you, you don’t have to examine their evidence, and so you don’t have to run the risk of having your world view challenged.
Those who dismiss global warming without examining the evidence are the same way. Change is hard.

I think you may be right, at least with regard to some people. I know a couple of people who still buy into conspiracy theories about 9/11.

I think it’s less about them actually believing that our own government or some Zionist cabal did it than it is about being in denial that Muslims could do it, no matter how obviously twisted & hateful their ideology. As a matter of fact, if pressed they vehemently respond with, “No. Muslims wouldn’t do this. There’s NO WAY it could have been Muslims.” It’s not a matter open for discussion with them.

163 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:51:32pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

The gun imagery and violent rhetoric isn’t as troubling to me as this stuff…

More: Beck On AZ Shooting: Is The Left “Creating” Or “Exploiting” This Issue?

When people really believe this stuff they become dangerous.

That is so spot on!

The rampant political exploitation is the real issue at hand- and will be until addressed.

164 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:51:56pm

re: #161 researchok

I suggest you leave the password on there. Having a separate admin account from your user account is a very good idea.

If your goal is to learn basic windows administration, then a “for dummies” book will cover your needs nicely. They tend to do a good job of explaining concepts without drowning you in details.

165 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:53:32pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear

Oops, meant to add that you should leave the PW on the admin account, then create a passwordless user account bearing your name, if that’s what you want to do. That way, no password needed to log in, and your user session is somewhat insulated from the guts of the OS.

166 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:54:07pm

re: #163 researchok

Er, isn’t Beck taking the position that ‘the rampant political exploitaton is the real issue at hand’?

And leave the password on the Win7 system. You can turn off most of the VAC stuff.

167 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:54:37pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear

I suggest you leave the password on there. Having a separate admin account from your user account is a very good idea.

If your goal is to learn basic windows administration, then a “for dummies” book will cover your needs nicely. They tend to do a good job of explaining concepts without drowning you in details.

B&N on the weekend.

TY

Now, if you have any questions on Freud…

168 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:54:53pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

The gun imagery and violent rhetoric isn’t as troubling to me as this stuff…

More: Beck On AZ Shooting: Is The Left “Creating” Or “Exploiting” This Issue?

When people really believe this stuff they become dangerous.

Here is some text from Limbaugh’s daily email:

Embarrassment for Sick, Desperate American Left
Libs try to link shooter to us. (Rush 24/7 Members: Listen)

“The first thought, the desperate hope, that the losers in November of 2010 had was that they could revitalize their political fortunes because of this unfortunate shooting of a congresswoman in Arizona. That was the most important thing to them — and that, to me, is sick.” -Rush

The Majority Will Not Be Silenced
Hold your head high. (Rush 24/7 Members: Listen)

“We on the right, ladies and gentlemen, have led the charge against Congress and the professional political class for noble and obvious reasons. I can’t speak for others who do what I do but I’m not gonna be silenced by this.” -Rush

Depraved Democrats Eager to See Obama Profit from a Mass Murder
They hoped for a new Oklahoma City Bombing to help Obama. (Rush 24/7 Members: Listen)
» Politico: Barack Obama’s Oklahoma City Moment
» WaPo: After Shootings, Obama Must Find Not Only Right Words but Right Time to Say Them

The Irresponsible Sheriff Dopnik [sic] Ignores All Real Evidence in Case
He admits he has no evidence to back up allegations. (Rush 24/7 Members: Listen)
» MoJo: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman’s Grudge Against Giffords

“Every large group contains some mentally unstable members. So statistically it’s inevitable that somebody identifiably conservative is gonna commit some atrocity. Now, when that happens, all the government machinery will be in place to take away as many political freedoms as the left can manage.” -Rush


Examples of Obama “Hate Speech”
We have many examples of Obama using violent metaphors and urging supporters to be aggressive.

“What is hate speech in America today? What is hate speech? Hate speech is that speech which disagrees with liberalism. Hate speech is that speech which disagrees with the policies of the Democrat Party. That’s how they define ‘hate speech.’” -Rush

Vitriolic Anti-Gabrielle Giffords Screed Pulled from the Daily Kos
If anyone targeted the congresswoman, it was the left. » WND: Look Who Else Put ”Bull’s-Eye” on Giffords

“I want you to notice the constant effort to demonize conservatism when in fact conservatism is the very foundation of America. The media, the hardcore left, are trying their best to convince us that the very values that built this country that go all the way back to the framers and the American Revolution are radical; when in fact our beliefs and principles are the oldest, most central core values of this country. Radical conservative is an oxymoron. That’s why they fear what we are and what we say and why they are trying to shut us up. And they will not stop.” -Rush

{At least Rush isn’t afraid to link to Mother Jones….)

169 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:55:30pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

The gun imagery and violent rhetoric isn’t as troubling to me as this stuff…

More: Beck On AZ Shooting: Is The Left “Creating” Or “Exploiting” This Issue?

When people really believe this stuff they become dangerous.

This strategy of self-immunization is an odd treat within all rightwing factions, Sovereign Citizen Movement or Beck…

170 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:56:49pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Er, isn’t Beck taking the position that ‘the rampant political exploitaton is the real issue at hand’?

And leave the password on the Win7 system. You can turn off most of the VAC stuff.

Beck speaks with forked tongue- that’s his problem.

There are plenty of things he brings up that are worthy of discussion, but he pollutes the environment with the other stuff and worse, entwines the crap with the substantive.

He’s a waste of time, IMO.

171 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:57:47pm

re: #167 researchok

B&N on the weekend.

TY

Now, if you have any questions on Freud…

Or if you reeeally want to learn how to tinker, download linux and install it. It’s free, and you can have both windows and linux on the same computer in a dual-boot configuration, no problem.

As for Freud, i’ve spent a few years in analysis which served as my introduction to his ideas. Absolutely fascinating man, Freud. I’d love to learn more, honestly.

172 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:58:09pm

re: #168 wrenchwench

Ugh.

173 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:58:48pm

re: #163 researchok

That is so spot on!

The rampant political exploitation is the real issue at hand- and will be until addressed.

I disagree. The “real issue” at hand is that a politician was shot for doing her job. The secondary issue is the heated rhetoric that may have given aid and comfort to her shooter. The tertiary issue is the denial of that second issue by the promoters of that very rhetoric.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:59:12pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

I think you may be right, at least with regard to some people. I know a couple of people who still buy into conspiracy theories about 9/11.

I think it’s less about them actually believing that our own government or some Zionist cabal did it than it is about being in denial that Muslims could do it, no matter how obviously twisted & hateful their ideology. As a matter of fact, if pressed they vehemently respond with, “No. Muslims wouldn’t do this. There’s NO WAY it could have been Muslims.” It’s not a matter open for discussion with them.

Hell, I saw that here the night one lizard got banned over Baruch Goldstein. Just would not accept the bare facts of the case. “We didn’t know everything.” Maybe there was a plot that he uncovered, and he couldn’t tell anyone else. How did we know that wasn’t what happened?

Sometimes people’s tribalism overrides any rational thought process.

(Then again, some people have had their rational thought process removed to make room for more tribalism.)

175 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:59:14pm

re: #42 000G

Tumbleweed: A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)


Is one of your favorite toys a remote control car?

If NASA creates a mars rover that communicates from mars then the signal reaches from the distance of mars.
The signal doesn’t reach from the distance of mars.
Nonetheless, NASA creates a mars rover that doesn’t communicate from mars.

If NASA communication signals reaches mars then NASA communication signal from the mars rover.
The NASA communication signals reaches mars
Therefore, NASA communication signals from the mars rover.

If the pictures are from mars then the mars rover is on mars.
The Mars rover is not on mars.
Therefore, the pictures are not from mars.

NASA creates a remote control rover that is impossible to reach mars.
NASA fakes the situation they plan with the mars rover.
Therefore, NASA creates a remote control rover that’s impossible to reach mars and fakes the situation they plan with the mars rover.

NASA sends the the Mars Rover to mars with communication or NASA fakes the situation.
NASA didn’t send the Mars Rover to mars with communication.
Therefore, NASA fakes the situation.

If the mars rover lands on mars with communication then NASA sent the Mars Rover to mars.
The mars rover lands on mars with communication.
Therefore, NASA sent the mars rover to mars with communication.

The distance from earth and mars is about 33,926,867.1 miles.
The distance from earth and mars changes.

Think about how NASA sends the mars rover
Think about how NASA is able to communicate from that distance.

Why didn’t I think of that?

176 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:59:59pm

re: #169 000G

This strategy of self-immunization is an odd treat within all rightwing factions, Sovereign Citizen Movement or Beck…

And that strategy is why they have gained such a foothold. Just accuse your opponent of whatever it is you are doing at the moment, and then when your opponent makes the charge, you can scream “the liberals are just projecting!”. Sure, it’s maddeningly ironic from the outside, but very effective from the inside.

177 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:00:58pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

Why didn’t I think of that?

Bet he doesn’t believe how magnets work.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:01:03pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, I saw that here the night one lizard got banned over Baruch Goldstein. Just would not accept the bare facts of the case. “We didn’t know everything.” Maybe there was a plot that he uncovered, and he couldn’t tell anyone else. How did we know that wasn’t what happened?

Sometimes people’s tribalism overrides any rational thought process.

(Then again, some people have had their rational thought process removed to make room for more tribalism.)

Why do I have a feeling I’ll see a screen capture of that post soon?

179 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:01:05pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

I think you may be right, at least with regard to some people. I know a couple of people who still buy into conspiracy theories about 9/11.

I think it’s less about them actually believing that our own government or some Zionist cabal did it than it is about being in denial that Muslims could do it, no matter how obviously twisted & hateful their ideology. As a matter of fact, if pressed they vehemently respond with, “No. Muslims wouldn’t do this. There’s NO WAY it could have been Muslims.” It’s not a matter open for discussion with them.

I’ve found with the ones I know that it’s not so much that Muslims wouldn’t do it but that they don’t have or didn’t have the capacity to do it. It’s implied in the arguments they make and assumptions behind them. Basically the US government or the US state as a whole just is smarter and more powerful then anyone else. I’ve pointed out that maybe the assumption that these Muslims weren’t inherently capable of figuring it out themselves without help and interference by the the US state, black operations (or whoever they think did it) is sorta lace with prejudice and kinda almost racist in a way.

That does not go over well of course. It really hits a nerve.

180 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:01:31pm

re: #176 Fozzie Bear

And that strategy is why they have gained such a foothold. Just accuse your opponent of whatever it is you are doing at the moment, and then when your opponent makes the charge, you can scream “the liberals are just projecting!”. Sure, it’s maddeningly ironic from the outside, but very effective from the inside.

It’s a big tent made out of an iron curtain of crazy and stupid, and lots of people feel the weather outside is too bad and want in.

181 Bacchus's daddy  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:02:42pm

Is the rhetoric from Beck and many tea partiers reckless and over-the-top? Of course. Is it this rhetoric that caused this crime? We may never know, but the evidence is thin at best. This game in which partisans of both sides are trying to cherry pick the words, anecdotes and third-party accounts of the shooter in order to align him with their ideological opponents, is pathetic.

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

182 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:02:52pm

re: #177 Decatur Deb

Bet he doesn’t believe how magnets work.

And let’s not ask him… slowly… back away… never mind the question…

183 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:02:57pm

“I’m NOT gonna be silenced with this!”….
on a blog, that only a relatively few read….people are delusional, all puffed up on the net…I think we have a problem with disconnect, reality is now a bunch of words on a monitor….it’s so easy to inflate your ego and hitch your pony to some new trumped up outrage or pop excuse to be ‘involved’…the boundaries of the fringe are fading and if someone replies to your nonsense, you get the feeling your mainstream….there is some bizarre psychology at work here….dangerous times

184 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:03:05pm

re: #168 wrenchwench

Here is some text from Limbaugh’s daily email:

{At least Rush isn’t afraid to link to Mother Jones…)

An open letter to Rush Limbaugh:

Fuck you, you craven, calculating sonofabitch…I’m mortified and embarassed I ever listened to you.

185 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:03:17pm

re: #180 000G

It’s a big tent made out of an iron curtain of crazy and stupid, and lots of people feel the weather outside is too bad and want in.

Excellent point. The old cold warriors don’t know how to live without an all-ecompassingly evil nemesis, so Beck provides them with one.

186 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:03:39pm

re: #32 William of Orange

Tom DeLay, three years behind bars…

…until a Republican president pardons him of course…

Insane reactions from the rightwing blogs is already starting.
Just a few posts from freeperland:
[Link: www.freerepublic.com…] (sorry for direct link, no cache yet)


So, WE are supposed to tone down OUR rhetoric when “stench from the bench” political hacks hand down unjust decisions such as this? Delay did not steal ONE PENNY. I hold judges like this in contempt of the Constitution! Bob
5 posted on Mon 10 Jan 2011 02:42:10 PM CST by alstewartfan (“Only in the darkest places will she feel at home tonight.” from Mixed Blessing by Al Stewart)

This is asking for a civil war.
11 posted on Mon 10 Jan 2011 02:45:10 PM CST by wendy1946

The only person who should go to jail Hell is the Judge.
There. That’s more like the truth.
33 posted on Mon 10 Jan 2011 03:29:51 PM CST by HKMk23 (WANT DIFFERENT? VOTE DIFFERENT!)

Payback will be a bitch.
Count on it!
51 posted on Mon 10 Jan 2011 04:37:33 PM CST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)

187 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:05:23pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, I saw that here the night one lizard got banned over Baruch Goldstein. Just would not accept the bare facts of the case. “We didn’t know everything.” Maybe there was a plot that he uncovered, and he couldn’t tell anyone else. How did we know that wasn’t what happened?

Sometimes people’s tribalism overrides any rational thought process.

(Then again, some people have had their rational thought process removed to make room for more tribalism.)

Wasn’t that Little Old Lady? She is a Kahanist, amirite?

188 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:05:57pm

re: #186 RadicalModerate

Insane reactions from the rightwing blogs is already starting.
Just a few posts from freeperland:
[Link: www.freerepublic.com…] (sorry for direct link, no cache yet)

See, the dialogue is already becoming more civil.

189 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:06:37pm

re: #42 000G

Tumbleweed: A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)

Was one of your favorite toys a plastic NASA Space Shuttle?

If the design of the NASA Space Shuttle keeps the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit then the NASA Space Shuttle is at a temperature for human life.
The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t at a temperature for human life.
Hence, the design of the NASA Space Shuttle doesn’t keep the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit.

If the air supply supports the NASA Space Shuttle mission for the time in orbit then the crew is able to breathe with the correct amount of oxygen for the time in orbit.
The crew is not able to breathe with the correct amount of oxygen for the time in orbit.
Consequently, the air supply doesn’t support the NASA Space Shuttle mission for the time in orbit

If the crew of the NASA mission uses a green screen then they are able to fake the mission.
The crew of the NASA mission uses a green screen.
Therefore, they are able to fake the mission.

If the 0 gravity affects the human body then the crew is at risk for body failure.
The 0 gravity affects the human body.
Therefore, the crew is at risk for body failure.

If the NASA Space Shuttle is with a crew in orbit then they’re able to perform the mission with the conditions in orbit.
They’re not able to perform the mission with the conditions in orbit.
Thus, the NASA Space Shuttle isn’t with a crew in orbit.

If the NASA Space Shuttle is able to reenter from the orbit of the Earth then the NASA Space Shuttle is able to reenter because of the heat of 1,500 °C.
The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t able to reenter because of the heat of 1,500 °C.
Hence, the NASA Space Shuttle isn’t able to reenter the orbit of the Earth.

If the NASA Space Shuttle is able to reenter from the orbit of Earth then the NASA Space Shuttle is in orbit.
The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t in orbit.
Therefore, the NASA Space Shuttle isn’t able to reenter from the orbit of Earth.

If the force of entry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body then there’s death to a human body in entry from earth to orbit.
The force of entry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body.
Hence, there’s death to a human body in entry from earth to orbit.

If the force of reentry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body then there’s death to a human body in reentry from earth to orbit.
The force of reentry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body.
Hence, there’s death to a human body in reentry from earth to orbit.

Are you scared of what happens after ET separation?

I knew someone like this about 20 years ago… the only conclusion we could reach was that he had some problem with his binky when he was a child and it got stuck somewhere… haven’t been able to find it yet.

190 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:06:39pm

re: #185 Fozzie Bear

Excellent point. The old cold warriors don’t know how to live without an all-ecompassingly evil nemesis, so Beck provides them with one.

Oh, the old cold warriors supply the talking points (cf. Birchers). But it’s certainly more than just geezers being geezers and being mad with librul whippersnappers. It’s also a lot of people recently having been genuinely disenfranchised, and feeling it unfair that their patriotism did not prevent it from happening. They want to know whom to blame. The extreme Right has a lot of answers for that.

191 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:07:05pm

re: #186 RadicalModerate

And there are still people who refuse to acknowledge that the right wing has become extremely dangerous over the past couple of years.

If you believe Obama is a communist dictator who is going to round up conservatives in FEMA camps, and that he wants to destroy America, is it really at all crazy to want him dead, and to take some action to make that happen? Wouldn’t acting to stop the next Hitler be a good and patriotic thing?

This isn’t just inflammatory rhetoric, its a constant blaring dog whistle advocating for violent revolution.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:07:25pm

re: #185 Fozzie Bear

Excellent point. The old cold warriors don’t know how to live without an all-ecompassingly evil nemesis, so Beck provides them with one.

Ah hell. I’m an old cold warrior, and the world is plenty scary enough without getting worked up about the art at Rockefeller Center.

193 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:07:37pm

re: #186 RadicalModerate

I’m trying to connect Delay getting jailed with a civil war.

People are weird…and kinda scary how they think sometimes.

194 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:07:38pm

OT a little: I’m sure this has been discussed in previous threads, but I missed it. Giffords is Jewish and the shooter had apparent ties to American Renaissance, a racist xenophobic anti-Semitic group—sort of a pseudointellectual KKK. This is from a DHS memo:

[S]trong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:07:46pm

re: #187 talon_262

Wasn’t that Little Old Lady? She is a Kahanist, amirite?

Ploome Hineni. I don’t recall what happened with LOL.

196 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:08:00pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, I saw that here the night one lizard got banned over Baruch Goldstein. Just would not accept the bare facts of the case. “We didn’t know everything.” Maybe there was a plot that he uncovered, and he couldn’t tell anyone else. How did we know that wasn’t what happened?

Sometimes people’s tribalism overrides any rational thought process.

(Then again, some people have had their rational thought process removed to make room for more tribalism.)

I think there’s also more than a little bit of shame there, you know? Feelings of guilt by association. Like, “If someone from my tribe—someone who ostensibly shares my values—could do that, then what does it say about me?” The point they’re missing is that whoever could do such a horrible thing cannot possibly share the same values as those of a decent, law abiding person. The feelings aren’t coming from a rational place though, so there’s no talking about.

197 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:08:26pm

re: #181 Bacchus’s daddy

You woke up from a long sleep to tell us that?

198 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:08:44pm

re: #171 Fozzie Bear

Or if you reeeally want to learn how to tinker, download linux and install it. It’s free, and you can have both windows and linux on the same computer in a dual-boot configuration, no problem.

As for Freud, i’ve spent a few years in analysis which served as my introduction to his ideas. Absolutely fascinating man, Freud. I’d love to learn more, honestly.

A techie and familiar with Freud.

You’re a fine human being.

199 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:09:21pm

re: #198 researchok

A techie and familiar with Freud.

You’re a fine human being.

I’m also a raving asshole. Sometimes. But you know that.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:09:32pm

re: #194 palomino

OT a little: I’m sure this has been discussed in previous threads, but I missed it. Giffords is Jewish and the shooter had apparent ties to American Renaissance, a racist xenophobic anti-Semitic group—sort of a pseudointellectual KKK. This is from a DHS memo:

Now, I thought that had been laid to bed. Link? Is it current?

And what do they mean, ‘linked’?

201 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:09:45pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

Ploome Hineni. I don’t recall what happened with LOL.

Forgot about ploome…

202 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:10:38pm

re: #179 Jadespring

I’ve found with the ones I know that it’s not so much that Muslims wouldn’t do it but that they don’t have or didn’t have the capacity to do it. It’s implied in the arguments they make and assumptions behind them. Basically the US government or the US state as a whole just is smarter and more powerful then anyone else. I’ve pointed out that maybe the assumption that these Muslims weren’t inherently capable of figuring it out themselves without help and interference by the the US state, black operations (or whoever they think did it) is sorta lace with prejudice and kinda almost racist in a way.

That does not go over well of course. It really hits a nerve.

I’ll be darned, it never occurred to me some people might look at it from that angle. That’s interesting.

203 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:12:04pm

people cut and paste like mad, surfing for any shred that will support their position or undermine their adversary….back and forth, over and over as if repetition or group think will become the truth….faster and faster….molehills become mountains…small stuff becomes an outrage, a Christmas bulb, or a quick bow cannot be passed off…a thousand comments and it goes round the globe, pitting opinionated people against each other as if they cannot live with the difference

204 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:13:18pm

re: #203 albusteve

people cut and paste like mad, surfing for any shred that will support their position or undermine their adversary…back and forth, over and over as if repetition or group think will become the truth…faster and faster…molehills become mountains…small stuff becomes an outrage, a Christmas bulb, or a quick bow cannot be passed off…a thousand comments and it goes round the globe, pitting opinionated people against each other as if they cannot live with the difference

The internet really has helped this kind of movement metastasize. Now you don’t even have to deal with FACTS you don’t agree with, let alone opinions.

205 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:13:20pm

re: #79 simoom

Jared Lee Loughner’s booking-photo / Mugshot (weird expression & shaved head):
[Link: www.tmz.com…]

Why do the hills have eyes mommy?

206 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:13:26pm

re: #194 palomino

OT a little: I’m sure this has been discussed in previous threads, but I missed it. Giffords is Jewish and the shooter had apparent ties to American Renaissance, a racist xenophobic anti-Semitic group—sort of a pseudointellectual KKK. This is from a DHS memo:

Actually American Renaissance is a Black-hating group that loves Jews. Well, that’s what the Head Hater wants you to believe. Me thinks they want to get close to the EDL, if they aren’t already.

207 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:14:15pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

She used to talk about what she thought of Muslims in the chat room. She was a nasty bit of work.

208 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:14:15pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, I thought that had been laid to bed. Link? Is it current?

And what do they mean, ‘linked’?

I don’t think it’s been laid to bed. The DHS memo yesterday said their were some reasons to suspect it.
The DHS memo today said they hadn’t found anything along those lines.
It didn’t say that they had concluded that there was nothing to the original suspicion.
Of course some take that as meaning “Look you didn’t find anything in 24 hrs! There’s nothing to it then!”

209 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:14:53pm

re: #206 marjoriemoon

Actually American Renaissance is a Black-hating group that loves Jews. Well, that’s what the Head Hater wants you to believe. Me thinks they want to get close to the EDL, if they aren’t already.

When you already hate blacks and foreigners, why not go for the trifecta and throw in the Jews?

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:16:15pm

re: #207 marjoriemoon

She used to talk about what she thought of Muslims in the chat room. She was a nasty bit of work.

She didn’t think I was a Jew, IIRC.

211 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:16:39pm

re: #173 wrenchwench

I disagree. The “real issue” at hand is that a politician was shot for doing her job. The secondary issue is the heated rhetoric that may have given aid and comfort to her shooter. The tertiary issue is the denial of that second issue by the promoters of that very rhetoric.

I think a politician was shot because some nutball had her in his sights.

212 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:16:42pm

re: #207 marjoriemoon

She used to talk about what she thought of Muslims in the chat room. She was a nasty bit of work.

That’s putting it mildly….

213 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:17:06pm

re: #209 palomino

When you already hate blacks and foreigners, why not go for the trifecta and throw in the Jews?

Tactics, or a leadership quirk. Lizards today have quoted the usual crap from the commenters.

214 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:18:05pm

re: #206 marjoriemoon

Actually American Renaissance is a Black-hating group that loves Jews. Well, that’s what the Head Hater wants you to believe. Me thinks they want to get close to the EDL, if they aren’t already.

No.

American Renaissance is a white supremacist group who support an Israeli state for Jewish people. They also say that Jews in the US (as well as all other races) should be segregated from each other.

215 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:18:07pm

re: #211 Capitalist Tool

I think a politician was shot because some nutball had her in his sights.

He would not have had her in his sights (and/or sites) if she had not been doing her job.

216 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:18:46pm

re: #199 Fozzie Bear

I’m also a raving asshole. Sometimes. But you know that.

no one was gonna say anything…
/

217 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:18:51pm

re: #209 palomino

When you already hate blacks and foreigners, why not go for the trifecta and throw in the Jews?

lol It’s pretty much built in. We talk here about stubbornly holding on to “misguided truths”, but you’ll never convince me that bigotry against Blacks does not go hand in hand with that against Jews. Least, I’ve never seen the separation. In fact, when someone drops the n* word, some Jewish slur is always right behind it.

218 albusteve  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:18:55pm

re: #197 Reginald Perrin

You woke up from a long sleep to tell us that?

why not?…you have no idea, I guess, how many times you have repeated yourself or parroted another poster…change around a few words and say it again and again, as if it’s an original thought…your need to corner people like that is tiresome, because of how often you have to do it….what difference does it make to you?…and what’s with the ‘us’ thing?….you don’t speak for me

219 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:19:21pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

She didn’t think I was a Jew, IIRC.

Ugh! Good riddance to bad rubbish.

220 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:20:20pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

She didn’t think I was a Jew, IIRC.

well, seriously, who would know?

221 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:20:42pm

re: #220 Capitalist Tool

/

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:21:54pm

re: #209 palomino

When you already hate blacks and foreigners, why not go for the trifecta and throw in the Jews?

I don’t know about this group in particular but: because most American Jews are white, lots are educated, and most are reasonably financially secure. And the United States has a less ingrained tradition of anti-Semitism than most of Europe.

The lines blur. These people want useful followers. They’ll let me be ‘white’ if I support their crap and provide them with “I’m not a racist” cover.

They can kiss my yiddishe tuchis, but that’s why.

223 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:22:19pm

re: #202 CuriousLurker

I’ll be darned, it never occurred to me some people might look at it from that angle. That’s interesting.

Well it’s not so much that they are consciously or purposely looking at it from that angle. It’s that it’s in the underlying assumptions. Basically that much of the argument is based on the fact that the couldn’t do things without help.

So I ask well why couldn’t they do it. In order for your it’s a conspiracy to work your assuming that some very smart people are manipulating a whole lot of other people right? So why aren’t you even assuming it’s possible that the Muslims involved or whoever organized it on that side was just as smart or heck even smarter? I’ve found that much truther theory and argument really depends on the assumptions that the perpetrators were too dumb to figure it out one their own.

224 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:23:12pm

re: #76 Conservative Moonbat

I remember really liking The Killing Game. Was that the name of the album or just the song on it?

That’s the name of the song, it’s off Last Rights.

if you like the more melancholy musical Puppy work, you’ll definitely like The Process (half the album sounds like that) or Mythmaker (ditto) and you’ll probably dig the Ohgr solo stuff, like Sunny Psyop

225 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:23:26pm

re: #214 RadicalModerate

No.

American Renaissance is a white supremacist group who support an Israeli state for Jewish people. They also say that Jews in the US (as well as all other races) should be segregated from each other.

Don’t let them fool you. Really. Don’t.

And I don’t care how many Jews they have in their ranks, or claim to have. I don’t know what kind of Jew who would join such a group. I’ve never met any Jew like that. Must be a special racist planet these people come from.

226 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:23:35pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, I thought that had been laid to bed. Link? Is it current?

And what do they mean, ‘linked’?

Oops, it’s from yesterday, which means NO, it’s not current. A day is like a lifetime in these stories.

Link is originally from Fox News site, of all places.

227 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:24:22pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m only white if I stay out of the sun. If I tan, I look totally hispanic/semitic.

228 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:25:28pm

re: #227 Obdicut

I’m only white if I stay out of the sun. If I tan, I look totally hispanic/semitic.

Windupbird doesn’t tan, he simply turns to ash

229 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:25:49pm

re: #223 Jadespring

Well it’s not so much that they are consciously or purposely looking at it from that angle. It’s that it’s in the underlying assumptions. Basically that much of the argument is based on the fact that the couldn’t do things without help.

So I ask well why couldn’t they do it. In order for your it’s a conspiracy to work your assuming that some very smart people are manipulating a whole lot of other people right? So why aren’t you even assuming it’s possible that the Muslims involved or whoever organized it on that side was just as smart or heck even smarter? I’ve found that much truther theory and argument really depends on the assumptions that the perpetrators were too dumb to figure it out one their own.

Good points. Something for me to think about.

230 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:25:49pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t know about this group in particular but: because most American Jews are white, lots are educated, and most are reasonably financially secure. And the United States has a less ingrained tradition of anti-Semitism than most of Europe.

The lines blur. These people want useful followers. They’ll let me be ‘white’ if I support their crap and provide them with “I’m not a racist” cover.

They can kiss my yiddishe tuchis, but that’s why.

That’s what it is? Interesting.

231 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:27:30pm

re: #227 Obdicut

I’m only white if I stay out of the sun. If I tan, I look totally hispanic/semitic.

An Oklahoma Indian friend moved out to New Mexico and all the Indian bro’s out there told him he needed to grow his hair long because he looked too much like a Jew.

Go figure.

232 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:27:33pm

re: #223 Jadespring

Well it’s not so much that they are consciously or purposely looking at it from that angle. It’s that it’s in the underlying assumptions. Basically that much of the argument is based on the fact that the couldn’t do things without help.

So I ask well why couldn’t they do it. In order for your it’s a conspiracy to work your assuming that some very smart people are manipulating a whole lot of other people right? So why aren’t you even assuming it’s possible that the Muslims involved or whoever organized it on that side was just as smart or heck even smarter? I’ve found that much truther theory and argument really depends on the assumptions that the perpetrators were too dumb to figure it out one their own.

people with their rich fantasy lives and their need to put meaning and intrigue where there is none, wheee

233 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:28:24pm

re: #213 Decatur Deb

Tactics, or a leadership quirk. Lizards today have quoted the usual crap from the commenters.

It may also be the result of the evangelical fetish for Armageddon. In this equation, Jews are necessary, in the sense that they must return to Israel, in order for the big beautiful Armageddon button to get pushed.

It’s a sort of backhanded support, though. Once Armageddon starts Jews will burn in a holy sea of fire along with the rest of the world’s non-bible believing Christians (which means about 80% of the world is doomed).

234 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:28:34pm

re: #230 marjoriemoon

That’s what it is? Interesting.

It’s a time-tested strategy of the Right in order to launch discriminatory messages against minorities, they just hire a member of that particular minority, most often to make the very statement.

235 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:28:47pm

re: #225 marjoriemoon

Don’t let them fool you. Really. Don’t.

And I don’t care how many Jews they have in their ranks, or claim to have. I don’t know what kind of Jew who would join such a group. I’ve never met any Jew like that. Must be a special racist planet these people come from.

I’m with you. I think someone being only partly racist is about as likely as someone being a little bit pregnant.

236 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:29:08pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

Is Windows Vista a philosophy?

yes, it’s a form of nihilism

237 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:29:48pm

re: #225 marjoriemoon

Don’t let them fool you. Really. Don’t.

And I don’t care how many Jews they have in their ranks, or claim to have. I don’t know what kind of Jew who would join such a group. I’ve never met any Jew like that. Must be a special racist planet these people come from.

Don’t succumb to “no true scotsman”. I’ve known some racist Jews. Anything’s possible.

238 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:30:01pm

re: #217 marjoriemoon

lol It’s pretty much built in. We talk here about stubbornly holding on to “misguided truths”, but you’ll never convince me that bigotry against Blacks does not go hand in hand with that against Jews. Least, I’ve never seen the separation. In fact, when someone drops the n* word, some Jewish slur is always right behind it.

It’s demonization of the “other” when practiced by white supremacists. I wish I hadn’t seen and heard so much of it growing up in TX in the 60s and 70s, but it was ever present.

239 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:30:54pm

re: #226 palomino

Oops, it’s from yesterday, which means NO, it’s not current. A day is like a lifetime in these stories.

Link is originally from Fox News site, of all places.

An anonymously leaked memo. What it doesn’t say, but Mother Jones did, is that the shooter’s mother is Jewish, according to his friend.

240 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:32:40pm

re: #234 000G

It’s a time-tested strategy of the Right in order to launch discriminatory messages against minorities, they just hire a member of that particular minority, most often to make the very statement.

I guess! I do know it happens. Just doesn’t come to my mind. Mostly because I can’t see how any Jew would want to join such a group, or the EDL, etc., but I know they do. I mean, there’s Pam Geller in all her hateful glory.

241 palomino  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:32:58pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t know about this group in particular but: because most American Jews are white, lots are educated, and most are reasonably financially secure. And the United States has a less ingrained tradition of anti-Semitism than most of Europe.

The lines blur. These people want useful followers. They’ll let me be ‘white’ if I support their crap and provide them with “I’m not a racist” cover.

They can kiss my yiddishe tuchis, but that’s why.

Good points. The far right also sees the Jews as having a privileged place in their story of the world’s end (something they seem to long for). But it’s largely faint praise since, in their Armageddon story, Jews will eventually burn in hell along with all the rest of us nonbelievers.

242 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:33:09pm

re: #235 CuriousLurker

I’m with you. I think someone being only partly racist is about as likely as someone being a little bit pregnant.

LOL absolutely!

243 researchok  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:33:51pm

re: #199 Fozzie Bear

I’m also a raving asshole. Sometimes. But you know that.

I live and breathe by that, daily.
//

244 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:35:54pm

re: #240 marjoriemoon

I guess! I do know it happens. Just doesn’t come to my mind. Mostly because I can’t see how any Jew would want to join such a group, or the EDL, etc., but I know they do. I mean, there’s Pam Geller in all her hateful glory.

Norman Finkelstein would be a prominent example as an individual, Israel Shamir a much shadier, shiftier one. Neturei Karta as a group example. The list could go on and on and on. And that’s just for Jews.

245 Michael McBacon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:36:02pm

*Double facepalm*.

246 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:39:03pm

re: #237 Fozzie Bear

Don’t succumb to “no true scotsman”. I’ve known some racist Jews. Anything’s possible.

I probably didn’t say that well enough. Indeed, there are racist Jews, but to me, they’d be no kind of Jew at all. It goes against the tenets of Judaism for one. For two, while we’re mostly white, we’re certainly not ALL white and it’s been that way for 1000s of years.

Kind of like, I recognize Fred Phelps is practicing his little twisted form of Christianity but I wouldn’t point to him as an example of Christian values. He’s almost like a storybook character, if he wasn’t so freakin real.

247 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:40:26pm

re: #225 marjoriemoon

Don’t let them fool you. Really. Don’t.

And I don’t care how many Jews they have in their ranks, or claim to have. I don’t know what kind of Jew who would join such a group. I’ve never met any Jew like that. Must be a special racist planet these people come from.

I’m not fooled at all by them - I consider AmRen’s posturing to be analogous to the Council of Conservative Citizens. They just wear suits and ties instead of white sheets.

Also, a little expansion on the supposed support of an Israeli state that AmRen has: one of their stated objectives is that they think that all US Jews should be deported (either voluntarily, or non-voluntarily) to their Israeli homeland. It has nothing to do with a love for Jews, it has everything to do with racial segregation.

248 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:40:46pm

re: #246 marjoriemoon

Jews don’t tend to be racist because it gets in the way of us being massively culturalist.
/

However, the older generation Jews I’ve known certainly have had a lot of race problems, especially with blacks.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:41:21pm

re: #247 RadicalModerate

I’m not fooled at all by them - I consider AmRen’s posturing to be analogous to the Council of Conservative Citizens. They just wear suits and ties instead of white sheets.

Also, a little expansion on the supposed support of an Israeli state that AmRen has: one of their stated objectives is that they think that all US Jews should be deported (either voluntarily, or non-voluntarily) to their Israeli homeland. It has nothing to do with a love for Jews, it has everything to do with racial segregation.

Well, I guess it’s better than Birobidzhan.

:) Great. Nutjobs.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:42:09pm

re: #247 RadicalModerate

I’m not fooled at all by them - I consider AmRen’s posturing to be analogous to the Council of Conservative Citizens. They just wear suits and ties instead of white sheets.

Also, a little expansion on the supposed support of an Israeli state that AmRen has: one of their stated objectives is that they think that all US Jews should be deported (either voluntarily, or non-voluntarily) to their Israeli homeland. It has nothing to do with a love for Jews, it has everything to do with racial segregation.

And, now, do they also think that all European Americans should be deported to their European homelands? Do they think white South Africans should ‘go home’?

251 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:42:15pm

re: #248 Obdicut

Jews don’t tend to be racist because it gets in the way of us being massively culturalist.
/

However, the older generation Jews I’ve known certainly have had a lot of race problems, especially with blacks.

Fortunately or unfortunately, Jews are human. Nobody’s immune to bad ideology. Even very smart people.

252 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:43:51pm

re: #246 marjoriemoon

I also just remembered an incredibly ignorant New Jersey jewish who hadn’t even ever heard of sephardic Jews, and laughed at the idea of black Jews.

She was obviously a special kind of stupid.

Image: ethiopian_jews_photos_6.jpg

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:47:54pm

re: #252 Obdicut

I also just remembered an incredibly ignorant New Jersey jewish who hadn’t even ever heard of sephardic Jews, and laughed at the idea of black Jews.

She was obviously a special kind of stupid.

Image: ethiopian_jews_photos_6.jpg

There have been Jews in Ethiopia for a really, really long time.

My mother got to see an Ethiopian Israeli comedian perform some years back. He talked about the difficulty some folks had with accepting that the Bene Israel were ‘real’ Jews and added—“I should add that Ethiopia is mentioned in the Bible twenty-three times (or something like that) Poland? Not so much.”

254 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:48:34pm

re: #239 wrenchwench

An anonymously leaked memo. What it doesn’t say, but Mother Jones did, is that the shooter’s mother is Jewish, according to his friend.

I didn’t read that. Who wrote that mess anyway? That memo was written a day after the shooting, yet it questions his criminal record, which we pretty much knew about 5 hours out, certainly at the press conference the afternoon before.

And then there’s this which has been plastered all over,

“Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government.”

THAT’S NOT TRUE. She’s the first Jewish Congresswoman in Arizona and I think 3rd female Congresswoman there. They say she was the youngest elected to Congress, but I’d have to do research first.

255 ryannon  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:50:51pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

Why didn’t I think of that?

Be glad you didn’t.

256 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:51:21pm

re: #244 000G

Norman Finkelstein would be a prominent example as an individual, Israel Shamir a much shadier, shiftier one. Neturei Karta as a group example. The list could go on and on and on. And that’s just for Jews.

JINO LOL How’s that.

Shamir is Greek Orthodox. That’s not his birth name.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

257 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:52:26pm

re: #256 marjoriemoon

JINO LOL How’s that.

Shamir is Greek Orthodox. That’s not his birth name.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I know.

258 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:53:07pm

re: #248 Obdicut

Jews don’t tend to be racist because it gets in the way of us being massively culturalist.
/

However, the older generation Jews I’ve known certainly have had a lot of race problems, especially with blacks.

There’s a great depiction of that in Art Spiegelman’s Maus.

259 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:54:01pm

re: #251 Fozzie Bear

Fortunately or unfortunately, Jews are human. Nobody’s immune to bad ideology. Even very smart people.

even that meme, well - intentioned, is a bit of a typecast, wouldn’t you agree?

260 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:56:16pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

There have been Jews in Ethiopia for a really, really long time.

My mother got to see an Ethiopian Israeli comedian perform some years back. He talked about the difficulty some folks had with accepting that the Bene Israel were ‘real’ Jews and added—“I should add that Ethiopia is mentioned in the Bible twenty-three times (or something like that) Poland? Not so much.”

The first Jews I ever knew were spanish from Mexico. They lived 2 doors from me growing up. Everyone else around was pretty much Christian. Suffice it to say, since they were the first I ever had contact with (from age 3) my unconscious assumptions were that Jews were hispanic and mostly from Mexico. It was a stereotype that I unknowingly had and when I started learning history, particularly World War II I remember wondering why all those people would ever go from Mexico to Germany in the first place? Took me a while to sort it out.

261 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:58:05pm

re: #247 RadicalModerate

I’m not fooled at all by them - I consider AmRen’s posturing to be analogous to the Council of Conservative Citizens. They just wear suits and ties instead of white sheets.

Also, a little expansion on the supposed support of an Israeli state that AmRen has: one of their stated objectives is that they think that all US Jews should be deported (either voluntarily, or non-voluntarily) to their Israeli homeland. It has nothing to do with a love for Jews, it has everything to do with racial segregation.

I was reading some of their stuff earlier about the racial divide crap. The thing is, once they get rid of all the Blacks, guess who’s next?

We live on this tiny little planet after all. Everyone lives everywhere. I’m not naive. I know people are racists, but I really don’t get all the hub-bub.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:58:22pm

re: #254 marjoriemoon

I didn’t read that. Who wrote that mess anyway? That memo was written a day after the shooting, yet it questions his criminal record, which we pretty much knew about 5 hours out, certainly at the press conference the afternoon before.

And then there’s this which has been plastered all over,

“Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government.”

THAT’S NOT TRUE. She’s the first Jewish Congresswoman in Arizona and I think 3rd female Congresswoman there. They say she was the youngest elected to Congress, but I’d have to do research first.

That’s nonsense. Ginsberg and Kagan are both Supreme Court justices. There are two Jewish women in the Senate, and eight in the House.

263 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:58:47pm

re: #248 Obdicut

Jews don’t tend to be racist because it gets in the way of us being massively culturalist.
/

However, the older generation Jews I’ve known certainly have had a lot of race problems, especially with blacks.

That’s true, sadly.

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:59:57pm

re: #260 Jadespring

The first Jews I ever knew were spanish from Mexico. They lived 2 doors from me growing up. Everyone else around was pretty much Christian. Suffice it to say, since they were the first I ever had contact with (from age 3) my unconscious assumptions were that Jews were hispanic and mostly from Mexico. It was a stereotype that I unknowingly had and when I started learning history, particularly World War II I remember wondering why all those people would ever go from Mexico to Germany in the first place? Took me a while to sort it out.

I once read a fascinating essay by a woman from a Mizrachi French Jewish family who married an Ashkenazi American. Her father didn’t take to him, and wasn’t convinced for some time that he was Jewish. His name was ‘Steinberg’. What kind of a Jew has a name like that? It’s obviously German!

265 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:00:38pm

re: #254 marjoriemoon

I didn’t read that. Who wrote that mess anyway? That memo was written a day after the shooting, yet it questions his criminal record, which we pretty much knew about 5 hours out, certainly at the press conference the afternoon before.

And then there’s this which has been plastered all over,

“Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government.”

THAT’S NOT TRUE. She’s the first Jewish Congresswoman in Arizona and I think 3rd female Congresswoman there. They say she was the youngest elected to Congress, but I’d have to do research first.

What kind of “memo” is it? Internal working papers are no better than the intern that might have prepared them. Finished documents, over Fed Secretary signature, are highly reviewed and rarely sloppy. (Though I dis see an under-Secretary release one with “OSHA” misspelled in the title.)

266 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:00:46pm

re: #252 Obdicut

I also just remembered an incredibly ignorant New Jersey jewish who hadn’t even ever heard of sephardic Jews, and laughed at the idea of black Jews.

She was obviously a special kind of stupid.

Image: ethiopian_jews_photos_6.jpg

Operation Solomon. There’s about 20,000 Ethiopian Jews living in Israel now.

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org…]

267 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:04:45pm

re: #264 SanFranciscoZionist

I once read a fascinating essay by a woman from a Mizrachi French Jewish family who married an Ashkenazi American. Her father didn’t take to him, and wasn’t convinced for some time that he was Jewish. His name was ‘Steinberg’. What kind of a Jew has a name like that? It’s obviously German!

:D
I think my experience illustrate just how much ‘typing’ can occur just by what surrounds you as a kid whether it’s words or simply people. We were really close with this family. It really took a long time as a grew out of kid world to get the connection out of my head as a concept. It was like it was ingrained.

268 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:06:01pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

There have been Jews in Ethiopia for a really, really long time.

My mother got to see an Ethiopian Israeli comedian perform some years back. He talked about the difficulty some folks had with accepting that the Bene Israel were ‘real’ Jews and added—“I should add that Ethiopia is mentioned in the Bible twenty-three times (or something like that) Poland? Not so much.”

I think it was the late 80s, some of the rabbis in Tucson, including my mother’s congregation, sponsored a number of young Jewish men trying to flee Ethiopia. They got them out. Some of them had been roaming the desert for 10 years or more, from when they were just little. I’ll see if I can find an article on that, but they gave some talks which were fascinating as you can imagine.

269 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:07:51pm

re: #257 000G

I know.

So why did you include him in that list?

270 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:08:35pm

re: #260 Jadespring

The first Jews I ever knew were spanish from Mexico. They lived 2 doors from me growing up. Everyone else around was pretty much Christian. Suffice it to say, since they were the first I ever had contact with (from age 3) my unconscious assumptions were that Jews were hispanic and mostly from Mexico. It was a stereotype that I unknowingly had and when I started learning history, particularly World War II I remember wondering why all those people would ever go from Mexico to Germany in the first place? Took me a while to sort it out.

That’s a great story!

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:11:44pm

re: #267 Jadespring

:D
I think my experience illustrate just how much ‘typing’ can occur just by what surrounds you as a kid whether it’s words or simply people. We were really close with this family. It really took a long time as a grew out of kid world to get the connection out of my head as a concept. It was like it was ingrained.

When I moved to London, I signed up for a NHS doctor, and got assigned a lady named Gonzalez. At the time, I didn’t think much of it, but I did have a vague picture in my head of what Dr. Gonzalez looked like, and presumed her—without thinking about it—to be Chicana. Yes, that makes no sense. Bear with me.

Anyway, I went to an appointment with her, and she walked into the room and was very obviously Jewish—looked just like my mom. The first thing that popped into my head was “Oh, her HUSBAND is the Gonzalez…” and then I realized, “Oh. It’s London. Gonzalez is a Jewish name here.”

272 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:13:05pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s nonsense. Ginsberg and Kagan are both Supreme Court justices. There are two Jewish women in the Senate, and eight in the House.

I know! They don’t even know about Florence Prag Kahn (1925) LOLL (Like I did.)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

273 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:14:04pm

re: #265 Decatur Deb

What kind of “memo” is it? Internal working papers are no better than the intern that might have prepared them. Finished documents, over Fed Secretary signature, are highly reviewed and rarely sloppy. (Though I dis see an under-Secretary release one with “OSHA” misspelled in the title.)

Quite obviously. It was from a link above that sent to … em… Foxnews.

274 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:23:58pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

When I moved to London, I signed up for a NHS doctor, and got assigned a lady named Gonzalez. At the time, I didn’t think much of it, but I did have a vague picture in my head of what Dr. Gonzalez looked like, and presumed her—without thinking about it—to be Chicana. Yes, that makes no sense. Bear with me.

Anyway, I went to an appointment with her, and she walked into the room and was very obviously Jewish—looked just like my mom. The first thing that popped into my head was “Oh, her HUSBAND is the Gonzalez…” and then I realized, “Oh. It’s London. Gonzalez is a Jewish name here.”

Common converso names are Perez and Lopez.

[Link: books.google.com…]

275 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:26:55pm

re: #274 marjoriemoon

Common converso names are Perez and Lopez.

[Link: books.google.com…]

Do conversos maintain modern communities, esp religiously Christian but ethnically Jewish? Are there enough to have an identity?

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:27:29pm

re: #272 marjoriemoon

I know! They don’t even know about Florence Prag Kahn (1925) LOLL (Like I did.)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

She wasn’t elected, though, she succeeded her husband.

Not that I knew that either. I just looked her up when I was trying to find out how many Jewish maydlakh there are in the House.

277 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:28:09pm

re: #275 Decatur Deb

Do conversos maintain modern communities, esp religiously Christian but ethnically Jewish? Are there enough to have an identity?

Not really communities, but people interested in researching their roots have come together over it.

278 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:36:35pm

re: #275 Decatur Deb

Do conversos maintain modern communities, esp religiously Christian but ethnically Jewish? Are there enough to have an identity?

They are Christians, actually Catholics mostly. I think Catholic is predominate in Spain, yes? They go to mass and celebrate all the Christian holidays, but also have some Jewish cultural things that have stayed with them. They may wear a Star of David or celebrate Passover, or eat Passover foods at Easter, kinda of thing.

279 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:38:04pm

re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist

She wasn’t elected, though, she succeeded her husband.

Not that I knew that either. I just looked her up when I was trying to find out how many Jewish maydlakh there are in the House.

More about Congresswoman Kahn that I would ever know!

280 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:39:32pm

re: #277 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #278 marjoriemoon

I was wondering if there was a dispersed community large enough and self-aware enough to have expectations of in-group marriage, like the old Pittsburgh Irish. It would have put yet another layer on “Who is a Jew?”.

281 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:48:11pm

re: #269 marjoriemoon

So why did you include him in that list?

Because he is often presented as the “token jew”. I never made the claim that he was a bona fide jew, those who used him for cover do. That is the whole point.

282 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:49:22pm

re: #280 Decatur Deb

re: #278 marjoriemoon

I was wondering if there was a dispersed community large enough and self-aware enough to have expectations of in-group marriage, like the old Pittsburgh Irish. It would have put yet another layer on “Who is a Jew?”.

I’m not sure I’m getting the question. The Jews were forced to convert or die so many practiced Judaism in secret. Eventually without the Jewish religion, they just became Catholics, married other Catholics and the Judaism was lost. I knew one family of Crypto-Jews and I found them fascinating.

Crypto-Jew is PC, actually. Marranos and conversos are considered an unkind slangs.

283 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 10, 2011 6:45:41pm

re: #282 marjoriemoon

I’m not sure I’m getting the question. The Jews were forced to convert or die so many practiced Judaism in secret. Eventually without the Jewish religion, they just became Catholics, married other Catholics and the Judaism was lost. I knew one family of Crypto-Jews and I found them fascinating.

Crypto-Jew is PC, actually. Marranos and conversos are considered an unkind slangs.

I was taught a different pattern, from the Catholic side. “Conversos” were those forced to convert, and the term was just descriptive during the Reconquista/Inquisition era. (I was surprised to know there any people still identified that way.) Even as converts, I suspect there was both integration and some degree of isolation. Marranos were those who resisted by reverting to Judaism, and became crypto-Jews, often escaping to the New World or non-Catholic turf. They would have comprised the largest group of those killed or otherwise punished by the Inquisition.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 64 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 165 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1