Republican congressman Peter King is suddenly interested in gun control.
Gun control, that is, for politicians. People like Peter King.
The rest of you peons can take your chances.
Rep. Peter King, a Republican from New York, is planning to introduce legislation that would make it illegal to bring a gun within 1,000 feet of a government official, according to a person familiar with the congressman’s intentions.
1 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:12:52pm |
Can you imagine the fuckery that would erupt if a Democrat introduced such a bill?
| 2 |
iossarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:13:55pm |
This is awesome. All I need to do now is move next door to a politician.
Hello gun-free America!
| 3 |
Big Steve Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:14:01pm |
so who constitutes a government official.....does that mean you got to hide your heater everytime the mailman comes to the door?
| 5 |
iossarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:14:41pm |
re: #3 Big Steve
so who constitutes a government official...does that mean you got to hide your heater everytime the mailman comes to the door?
That's going to put the kibosh on my traffic warden-discouraging ways!
| 6 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:16:42pm |
As I said earlier, I think this is merely a way to pander to the Anti-Gunners in NY with something he knows won't pass and won't matter if it did. It's purely for the publicity, not for anything real.
| 7 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:16:44pm |
So much for patriots proudly exercising their 2nd amendment rights at political venues.
| 8 |
iossarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:18:33pm |
To be honest, though, this is a great example of where a Republican might actually be suggesting something that would improve things in the US, and as such, I applaud it.
Once politicians are on the "safe zone" list it will hopefully be easier to add other important people such as myself.
| 9 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:20:22pm |
re: #8 iossarian
To be honest, though, this is a great example of where a Republican might actually be suggesting something that would improve things in the US, and as such, I applaud it.
Once politicians are on the "safe zone" list it will hopefully be easier to add other important people such as myself.
Anyone who really wants to do damage won't give a damn about a "safe zone".
| 10 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:20:46pm |
It appears Mr King has had his 'Come to Jesus' moment.
Now that the problem is in his back yard.
| 11 |
S.D. Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:21:10pm |
Ah, the smell of SELF PRESERVATION...
What a motive!
| 12 |
S'latch Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:21:37pm |
I don't expect Peter King's idea will become a law anytime soon, and it certainly would not have stopped a person like Jared Lee Loughner.
| 13 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:21:57pm |
re: #8 iossarian
To be honest, though, this is a great example of where a Republican might actually be suggesting something that would improve things in the US, and as such, I applaud it.
Once politicians are on the "safe zone" list it will hopefully be easier to add other important people such as myself.
Safe zones are meaningless to anyone who wants to kill. The only thing it does is create a false sense of security that is more dangerous to the potential victims than a healthy bit of paranoia.
| 15 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:22:33pm |
Oh for heavens sakes. Now a Republican jumps on the band wagon.
A "no gun" buffer zone at political events like town halls and meet & greets makes sense to me as I said earlier. Some of us have had a bunch of back and forth about guns, ccw, and gun control.
I offer this link for the hard cold realities of retail defense with a gun. Homes are different as is ccw. But this link is a start to reach us the good and the bad about what really happens. The most experienced gunfighter in recent years is a jeweler. His story is well worth reading.
I teach this stuff since the '90s. I offer my lessons learned as a non political reality check.
Straight up caveat-My bias is pro gun rights. With sensible regulations.
[Link: findarticles.com...]
| 16 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:23:08pm |
And it would really ruin the family atmosphere at Town Hall Meetings...
| 17 |
mr.fusion Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:23:45pm |
I'd love to see legislation banning extended magazines as well. As Chris Matthews put it last night, the only reason to carry a handgun with a 30 round clip in it is if you are planning on shooting a lot of people.
As far as this King bill goes--- yea, it's hypocritical and Pelosi would be absolutely hammered for proposing the same legislation.....but I think it's a good idea.
And just as an aside: Personally I've got nothing against the 2nd amendment or gun rights.....just think there should be some common sense applied
| 18 |
elizajane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:24:38pm |
Richard Cohen has a strongly pro-gun-control editorial in today's Wash Post today:
"The American culture, the American gun culture, insists on a constitutional right to bear arms - even concealed weapons such as a Glock 19 semiautomatic handgun capable of doing immense damage. A 22-year-old man, already hallucinating on the Internet, making no sense in his classes and booted from school for his strange ways, can buy such a killing device almost on the spot. If he is crazy, then so are we.
No real questions are asked of him. Do you think the government controls grammar and grammar controls the universe? Have you been babbling in class and can you hold a job? Why do you want this gun? Do you, perhaps, want to kill someone? Do you want a Glock 19 because it was one of two handguns used in the Virginia Tech massacre (32 killed, one suicide), and would you please state the name of your intended victim on the form provided? Thanks. This will just take a moment to process."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
What surprised me was that the comments are trending pretty strongly in support of his argument. If you take the NRA at its word, the American public is wildly against any gun control.
Or perhaps that's just the legislators who the NRA has purchased "lock, stock and barrel."
Anyway, King's proposal is probably as close as we'll get these days to a limit on weapons in the USA. I even have my doubts that it will pass.
| 19 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:24:48pm |
BTW the proposal as described is utterly unworkable. Events are manageable, but how would we know when we are even within 1000 feet of a politician? If he lives on my block, may I then not have a gun at home? That's not going to hold up.
| 20 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:26:07pm |
Amd besides, a trained sniper can it a target at 1,000 yards...
| 21 |
jaunte Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:27:22pm |
How about changing the bill to read "within a thousand faces of Peter King?"
| 22 |
bratwurst Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:29:14pm |
re: #12 Lawrence Schmerel
I don't expect Peter King's idea will become a law anytime soon, and it certainly would not have stopped a person like Jared Lee Loughner.
Thanks for clearing that up.
| 23 |
mr.fusion Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:29:38pm |
re: #19 Rightwingconspirator
BTW the proposal as described is utterly unworkable. Events are manageable, but how would we know when we are even within 1000 feet of a politician? If he lives on my block, may I then not have a gun at home? That's not going to hold up.
On top of that, the report says it would make it illegal to bring a gun within 1000 feet of any government official, not just politician. Would that include park rangers? Teachers outside of classrooms? You see where I'm going with that......
| 24 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:30:34pm |
Since shooting a politician is already against the law, anyone intent on doing so isn't going to mind breaking a law forbidding them from carrying a gun near a politician.
| 25 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:30:59pm |
This measure wont prevent criminal acts such as the Giffords attack, but provides additional criminal sanctions for those who break the law. It wont stop someone from carrying out an attack with a firearm. It's just closing the barn door after the fact - and enforcement of the proposed measure would be extremely problematic.
It would seem to trump concealed carry among those who are lawfully within their rights to otherwise carry weapons and raises a question as to how the law could be enforced in the residential areas around members. Would this mean that a representative living in an urban area has a zone of 1,000 feet around them where possessing weapons is potentially illegal?
And how is government official going to be defined? As Obdicut and I were discussing on the earlier thread, federal judges are often the officials most frequently attacked and threatened. There are close to 2,000 of those federal judges spread around the country. There are thousands more state judges.
The measure may end up being limited to members participating in public events or at their offices or the 1,000 foot zone is reduced to something more manageable - 500 or 250 feet.
And can anyone imagine the uproar if it was a Democrat proposing the very same measure? The right wing rhetoric would be turned up to 11 (and then some).
In the end, I don't see this having the intended effect of improving security for members of Congress or govt officials. It is unworkable but remarkable nonetheless that King (a GOPer from NY) was the one to make the proposal.
| 26 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:32:39pm |
What is King's previous track record re gun issues?
| 27 |
jaunte Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:32pm |
re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist
[Link: www.ontheissues.org...]
| 28 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:36pm |
re: #24 Conservative Moonbat
Since shooting a politician is already against the law, anyone intent on doing so isn't going to mind breaking a law forbidding them from carrying a gun near a politician.
Of course. It does nothing for Loughner type assassins.
The law is meant to impede Tea Bagger morons who want to bring their AR15's to political rallies. Thank you Rep King!
| 29 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:39pm |
Lessee, full healthcare, gun control... In USSR we had a Socialism in One Country concept, apparently King likes the concept of Socialism for the Elite.
| 30 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:44pm |
I think there should be a 60 day time out rule in congress. After a shooting or national tragedy, no new legislation should be proposed within 60 days of the event. We get too many stupid laws that way.
| 31 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:45pm |
re: #12 Lawrence Schmerel
I don't expect Peter King's idea will become a law anytime soon, and it certainly would not have stopped a person like Jared Lee Loughner.
Badly crafted, quickly put together.
| 32 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:55pm |
re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist
[Link: www.ontheissues.org...]
NRA gives him a D, which is probably a product of being from NY.
| 33 |
iossarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:57pm |
re: #13 wlewisiii
Safe zones are meaningless to anyone who wants to kill. The only thing it does is create a false sense of security that is more dangerous to the potential victims than a healthy bit of paranoia.
re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Anyone who really wants to do damage won't give a damn about a "safe zone".
Ah, the old "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" defense.
I don't really think that a "safe zone" will prevent all gun crime, of course. What I want is for people to start passing laws that limit the use of handguns, as part of a process of weaning Americans off their firearms.
| 34 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:34:33pm |
re: #30 Conservative Moonbat
I think there should be a 60 day time out rule in congress. After a shooting or national tragedy, no new legislation should be proposed within 60 days of the event. We get too many stupid laws that way.
No new legislation responding to the event, that is.
| 35 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:34:36pm |
Bryan Fischer is a disgusting waste of skin
Giffords must be blamed for her own shooting, and for all six deaths, because she has been an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment and its guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. She celebrated recent Supreme Court victories for the Second Amendment. Who is at fault here? Well, according to the wingers on the left, we need look no further than Rep. Giffords. Based on their own template, she has no one to blame but herself.
Okay, that was easy. The Democrats, without apparently realizing it, have fixed the blame for the shooting deaths on Rep. Giffords herself. So we have at least one person on whom we may clearly and unambiguously, using the left's template, fix the blame for this massacre.
But the left is also blindly and unwittingly blaming itself. Sarah Palin posted one map with a bulls-eye on Giffords' district, as a district to target in the 2010 elections. The bulls-eye, you will be careful to note, was placed over her district, not over her face. So Ms. Palin is to blame, for viciously stirring up hatred, vitriol, and violence against innocent human beings by using maps with targets on them.
But there at least three maps Democrats have produced which have bulls-eyes on them. You can see Palin's map and two of the Democrats' maps here, one produced by the Democratic Leadership Committee and the second by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. These maps, as Palin's did, identify electoral targets. Okay, that was easy. The blame, then, for Saturday's shooting rests with the leadership of the Democrat Party.
| 36 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:35:06pm |
Doesn't Rep. King realize that this is basically the same as banning all tea party rallies?
| 38 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:36:14pm |
re: #27 jaunte
[Link: www.ontheissues.org...]
Well, he got a "D" from the NRA, so this doesn't seem to come out of nowhere, although from the look of what he voted for, I'm not sure what their problem is.
I assume this is well meant, but it's a panic bill.
| 39 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:36:24pm |
| 40 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:36:33pm |
re: #30 Conservative Moonbat
I think there should be a 60 day time out rule in congress. After a shooting or national tragedy, no new legislation should be proposed within 60 days of the event. We get too many stupid laws that way.
Agreed.
| 41 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:38:55pm |
I will introduce a bill that ALL POLITICAN MUST wear bright HOT PINK
and LIME outfits!
We need to know who they are so we can run away to comply with
a 1000 ft no carry zone!
It will also keep me away from any Lady Gaga fan...Added bonus!
.../? maybe not!
| 42 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:39:08pm |
re: #33 iossarian
re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Ah, the old "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" defense.I don't really think that a "safe zone" will prevent all gun crime, of course. What I want is for people to start passing laws that limit the use of handguns, as part of a process of weaning Americans off their firearms.
Where did I say anything like "only outlaws will have guns"? There are plenty of real steps involving background checks, registration and tighter guidelines for who can legally purchase and own firearms that should be considered, not arbitrary "This is a safe zone" rule. I can declare my office as a Nuclear Free zone or a Tiger Free zone and have much the same effect as gun free zone. Its meaningless semantics.
| 43 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:39:23pm |
re: #30 Conservative Moonbat
A good idea, indeed.
| 45 |
mr.fusion Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:39:58pm |
re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
And how many members of Congress "targeted" in the Democratic maps were shot at point blank range in the head?
| 47 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:40:31pm |
re: #39 Conservative Moonbat
Who the hell is this fuck?
Same guy who said being awarded the CMH for saving lives was feminizing the award and that Obama was planning to give the US back to the Indians.
| 48 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:40:35pm |
re: #39 Conservative Moonbat
Who the hell is this fuck?
Director of Issue Analysis for the American Family Association.
Believes that we've 'feminized' the Medal of Honor by giving it to guys for rescuing their comrades rather than killing massive numbers of the enemy.
Believes we should kill all the grizzly bears.
Mean and stupid and very, very arrogant.
| 49 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:41:12pm |
Is it called the "Weenie Resolution"?
| 50 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:41:50pm |
re: #20 ralphieboy
Amd besides, a trained sniper can it a target at 1,000 yards...
Exactly!
1000 ft?
That's nothin!
| 51 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:43:15pm |
re: #50 reloadingisnotahobby
Exactly!
1000 ft?
That's nothin!
Just make sure you don't get your Dad to zero your rifle before you go out.
| 52 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:43:27pm |
Saw a picture of the shooter. He doesn't look nuts. Not at all.
/
| 53 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:45:32pm |
re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
He looks like the Tidy Bowl Man on PCP.
| 54 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:45:44pm |
| 55 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:45:47pm |
Nope, this one won't fly, POTUS would have to veto it.
After all, he's the one who suggests bringing a gun to the fight./
(Said with all the seriousness that ' Tea party rallies are rife with gunslingers out to wreak havoc ' deserves).
| 57 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:46:43pm |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Maybe he misunderstood her inflection on the word ZERO.
All he heard was Zero.......Caribou....Damn hearing aids!
| 58 |
iossarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:47:07pm |
re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Where did I say anything like "only outlaws will have guns"? There are plenty of real steps involving background checks, registration and tighter guidelines for who can legally purchase and own firearms that should be considered, not arbitrary "This is a safe zone" rule. I can declare my office as a Nuclear Free zone or a Tiger Free zone and have much the same effect as gun free zone. Its meaningless semantics.
Oh, OK. I misread your point. Mine was that gun regulation has been going backwards in the US for years, so it's nice to see something that is "gun regulation" being proposed, despite its limitations.
It will be interesting to watch how other Republicans react to King's move.
| 59 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:47:15pm |
alex jones gets youtube doubled
[Link: youtubedoubler.com...]
| 60 |
avanti Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:47:31pm |
The only think such a bill would prevent is the idiots that like to show up outfitted like Rambo in open carry states.
| 61 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:47:47pm |
re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Looks just like the IDIOT living down the street...any street U.S.A.
/
| 62 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:48:27pm |
re: #18 elizajane
Have you ever seen the Federal paperwork you fill out to buy a pistol?
It is very extensive. Asks about all kinds of things. I'm not sure this guys purchase was legal. If he had gotten a negative psych evaluation, it was an illegal sale.
| 63 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:49:00pm |
re: #23 mr.fusion
Idiot. Broad brush laws FAIL.
| 64 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:49:52pm |
also, pass an amendment making individual ownership of firearms illegal
| 65 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:50:39pm |
re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Apparently, Loughner has been carrying a grudge against Giffords since 2007.
| 66 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:50:59pm |
re: #62 Rightwingconspirator
Have you ever seen the Federal paperwork you fill out to buy a pistol?
It is very extensive. Asks about all kinds of things. I'm not sure this guys purchase was legal. If he had gotten a negative psych evaluation, it was an illegal sale.
His Psychiatrist didn't fill out the form.......oops
Ah ....shit...that'll be next!
| 67 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:51:22pm |
re: #59 SpaceJesus
alex jones gets youtube doubled
[Link: youtubedoubler.com...]
Is that from a recent show?
| 68 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:51:40pm |
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say..... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
| 69 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:51:50pm |
re: #64 SpaceJesus
Unconstitutional.
| 70 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:52:09pm |
re: #64 SpaceJesus
If your serious...Fuck you!
...I just cursed at jesus...
| 71 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:52:47pm |
re: #70 reloadingisnotahobby
Oh no you di'hunt.
Not even a reasonable facsimile.
| 72 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:52:52pm |
re: #55 tradewind
Nope, this one won't fly, POTUS would have to veto it.
After all, he's the one who suggests bringing a gun to the fight.
Thud.
| 74 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:52:59pm |
re: #68 tradewind
What, specifically, should Dupnik have done?
| 75 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:53:06pm |
re: #68 tradewind
I read that earlier...what do you make of it?
| 78 |
Tinian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:53:50pm |
The problem, as I see it, is that Jerrod Loughner didn't smoke enough marijuana to mellow himself out. Self medication is often the best alternative to Big Pharma.
The thing nobody wants to discuss is how the bogus "War on Drugs" has deprived millions of Americans from the only thing that can relieve both their mental and physical pains.
| 79 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:53:51pm |
| 80 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:53:52pm |
re: #75 reloadingisnotahobby
I think the sheriff shot off his mouth out of
' Oh shiite....don't blame ME '.
Then again, he's gettin' up there.
| 81 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:54:00pm |
re: #59 SpaceJesus
alex jones gets youtube doubled
[Link: youtubedoubler.com...]
Brilliant. Brilliant. Music for my ears. Angry Whitey Rap. ;-)
| 82 |
zora Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:54:11pm |
re: #68 tradewind
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
so you believe this mass murder was the sheriff's fault?
| 83 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:54:15pm |
re: #77 SpaceJesus
Well, you got me there. Won't happen though. It's impractical and stupid.
| 84 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:54:19pm |
re: #68 tradewind
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
What warning did he have?
You are as big a jerk as Limbaugh.
Made your day, didn't I.
| 85 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:54:34pm |
re: #67 Killgore Trout
Is that from a recent show?
It's from 2009. I saw it before - Jones looks like he's about to pop a vein in his neck, he's screaming so loud about his demented shit. The mic starts distorting.
| 87 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:55:27pm |
re: #80 tradewind
I think the sheriff shot off his mouth out of
' Oh shiite...don't blame ME '.
Then again, he's gettin' up there.
Ass.
| 88 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:55:52pm |
re: #68 tradewind
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
Fuck due process. I'm sure we can all think of a few people we're sure don't belong on the street. Lets round them up just to be safe.
///
| 89 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:55:59pm |
re: #78 Tinian
Um, I like weed and all, but it's not the cure to all what ails you. That's just a phrase.
| 90 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:56:03pm |
re: #83 Slumbering Behemoth
oh of course not, the votes aren't there. just wishful thinking.
| 91 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:56:18pm |
| 92 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:56:25pm |
re: #82 zora
No. I think it's the whack job's fault.
But I think the sheriff shot off his mouth in part to deflect any responsibility that he bore for failing to remove a known threat from the Congresswoman's presence.
The kid didn't arise out of the unknown. There were other warnings.
| 93 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:56:27pm |
re: #80 tradewind
I think the sheriff shot off his mouth out of
' Oh shiite...don't blame ME '.
Then again, he's gettin' up there.
Apparently there's quite a history of contact and complaints
on record .....I'm not sure what if any were actionable.
| 94 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:56:28pm |
re: #80 tradewind
I think the sheriff shot off his mouth out of
' Oh shiite...don't blame ME '.
Then again, he's gettin' up there.
The man has worked in law enforcement in that county for 50 years, and all you can call him is old.
You're a pig.
| 95 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:56:31pm |
re: #68 tradewind
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
We can always depend on you to parrot the most ridiculous right wing talking points.
| 96 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:57:31pm |
re: #64 SpaceJesus
also, pass an amendment making individual ownership of firearms illegal
Won't happen. For better or worse, Americans will continue to have their firearms. Overall I think it's more positive than negative.
I do wish there was universal service so that everyone would get a chance to learn how to handle firearms safely and responsibly. Too many people through out America seem to fear them more than, say, their car which can be just as deadly. But most learn how to safely handle a car in High School. Would that could happen for firearms...
| 97 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:57:59pm |
re: #93 reloadingisnotahobby
We'll see, down the road a bit.
I don't see the guy winning reelection, if he runs again, in any case.
| 98 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:58:33pm |
In other news: Council of Conservative Citizens joins the "Loughner is Jewish" chorus of hate. Headline: "Loughner is half Jewish. Anti-Semitism claim is bogus.".
| 99 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:58:40pm |
Wow... this is stupid so stupid....
It's insane to think that an idea like this could be effectively enforced.
And this is coming from the guy who thinks if you're going to a political rally with an important politician present you should have to go through a metal detector /get waved down by a hand held one and place all your guns in a trunk not to pic up till you leave...
| 100 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:58:52pm |
re: #97 tradewind
We'll see, down the road a bit.
I don't see the guy winning reelection, if he runs again, in any case.
Said the Tea Party about Harry Reid...
| 101 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:58:59pm |
re: #68 tradewind
Do everyone a favor and STFU. That's the most asinine talking point out there, aside from all the other ones you've been parroting.
| 102 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:00:00pm |
re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Said the Tea Party about Harry Reid...
Reid probably would have been dead in the water if it hadn't been the Season of the Really Crazy Candidate.
| 103 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:00:45pm |
re: #90 SpaceJesus
It would be pretty awesome if the human species, as a whole, gave up violence, greed, bigotry, crime, and what not. But it ain't gonna happen. Until it does, I will secure myself against such with practical, modern means.
| 104 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:00:49pm |
re: #98 Sergey Romanov
In other news: Council of Conservative Citizens joins the "Loughner is Jewish" chorus of hate. Headline: "Loughner is half Jewish. Anti-Semitism claim is bogus.".
Note: Ann Coulter says CCC is a normal conservative group that has been defamed.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 105 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:00:51pm |
re: #68 tradewind
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
You're deliberately misrepresenting the article. It says nothing about Dupnik's neglect being a factor in the shooting.
The editorial merely opines that Dupnik should make no further comments about hateful rhetoric because it comes across as partisan. To which I would say, Why the hell do you have partisan elections for sheriff if you don't want partisanship?
| 106 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:01:14pm |
re: #95 Charles
That right wing talking point was an editorial straight out of the Arizona Republic, which is the largest newspaper in Phoenix.
Not my or a right-wing site's ideas.
| 107 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:01:30pm |
re: #78 Tinian
The problem, as I see it, is that Jerrod Loughner didn't smoke enough marijuana to mellow himself out. Self medication is often the best alternative to Big Pharma.
The thing nobody wants to discuss is how the bogus "War on Drugs" has deprived millions of Americans from the only thing that can relieve both their mental and physical pains.
One thing pot does is tend to suppress the ability to remember dreams. When Loughner quite smoking weed he got WAY too involved in his own dream life, started ascribing ridiculous amounts of significance to what is essentially the random firing of neurons.
| 108 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:02:12pm |
re: #106 tradewind
That right wing talking point was an editorial straight out of the Arizona Republic, which is the largest newspaper in Phoenix.
Not my or a right-wing site's ideas.
You should read it again. That's not what it says.
| 109 |
zora Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:02:13pm |
re: #97 tradewind
We'll see, down the road a bit.
I don't see the guy winning reelection, if he runs again, in any case.
i'm more concerned for his personal safety than his reelection. some people hate the truth. i suppose if an attempt is made on his life, you will be around to remind us that it is not political.
| 110 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:02:16pm |
re: #101 Lidane
Take it up with the Arizona Republic. It's their editorial.
Write a letter to the editor, and tell him to STFU.
| 111 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:02:30pm |
Took me almost an hour to drive home, normally takes about 20 minutes.
Now, where is my red wine?
| 112 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:02:43pm |
re: #106 tradewind
Again: What, specifically, should Dupnik have done?
| 113 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:03:01pm |
re: #105 palomino
You're deliberately misrepresenting the article. It says nothing about Dupnik's neglect being a factor in the shooting.
The editorial merely opines that Dupnik should make no further comments about hateful rhetoric because it comes across as partisan. To which I would say, Why the hell do you have partisan elections for sheriff if you don't want partisanship?
Why should criticism of hateful rhetoric come across as partisan?
(Yes, that's a loaded question, boys and girls, and you should run and tell a grownup. Don't touch it!)
(I had those Eddie the Eagle coloring books from the NRA as a child.)
| 114 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:03:05pm |
re: #101 Lidane
Nah, I wanna see how many feet she can shove in her mouth.
:P
| 115 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:03:21pm |
re: #110 tradewind
You're the one misrepresenting that article. And everything else you read, since you seem to lack basic reading comprehension skills.
Seems to me the issue is with you, not the Arizona Republic.
| 116 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:03:38pm |
Rep. King didn't seem to be too concerned about guns and other types of political violence during the decades that he supported the IRA. I guess when it's your ass that might be in someone's cross-hairs, it kinda changes your perspective, huh?
From June 22, 2005:
Rep. King and the IRA: The End of an Extraordinary Affair?
[...]
Once a vocal and frequent House champion for the IRA's political wing, Sinn Fein, and its leader, Gerry Adams, the 60-year-old, Queens-born Mr. King has said nothing about either on the House floor in years. The politician once called the IRA "the legitimate voice of occupied Ireland," he was banned from the BBC by British censors for his pro-IRA views, and he refused to denounce the IRA when one of its mortar bombs killed nine Northern Irish police officers. But Mr. King is now one of America's most outspoken foes of terrorism.
[...]
Mr. King's support for the IRA was unequivocal. In 1982, for instance, he told a pro-IRA rally in Nassau County: "We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry."
By the mid-1980s, the authorities on both sides of the Atlantic were openly hostile to Mr. King. On one occasion, a judge threw him out of a Belfast courtroom during the murder trial of IRA men because, in the judge's view, "he was an obvious collaborator with the IRA." When he attended other trials, the police singled him out for thorough body searches.
During his visits to Ireland, Mr. King would often stay with well-known leaders of the IRA, and he socialized in IRA drinking haunts. At one of such clubs, the Felons, membership was limited to IRA veterans who had served time in jail. Mr. King would almost certainly have been red-flagged by British intelligence as a result, but the experience gave him plenty of material for the three novels he subsequently wrote featuring the IRA.
| 117 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:03:56pm |
re: #108 wrenchwench
I read it.
The editorial was not happy that the sheriff seemed more concerned with politicizing the tragedy than taking care of his job, which is law enforcement.
| 118 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:04:10pm |
re: #106 tradewind
That right wing talking point was an editorial straight out of the Arizona Republic, which is the largest newspaper in Phoenix.
Not my or a right-wing site's ideas.
The editorial told Dupnik to stop talking so much and so emotionally, which is, I think, a fair criticism.
Suggesting that he's trying to deflect criticism of himself, or that he could have prevented the attack is extra.
| 119 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:04:27pm |
re: #117 tradewind
I read it.
The editorial was not happy that the sheriff seemed more concerned with politicizing the tragedy than taking care of his job, which is law enforcement.
You claimed it said he had warning.
| 120 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:04:56pm |
re: #117 tradewind
More proof that you lack basic reading comprehension skills. It doesn't say that at all.
| 121 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:04:57pm |
re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist
He didn't merely criticize it. He implied it was to blame.
That's an opinion unfounded in fact, and not shared, according to CBS's latest poll, by Americans in general.
| 122 |
bratwurst Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:04:59pm |
Ladies and gentlemen...the competition was FIERCE, but it is clear that we have a winner in the category of "Most Obnoxious Response to This Tragedy From the Class of 2004".
| 123 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:05:47pm |
re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist
Why should criticism of hateful rhetoric come across as partisan?
It shouldn't, unless you take the criticism personally because you think it applies to you.
| 124 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:06:29pm |
re: #123 Slumbering Behemoth
It shouldn't, unless you take the criticism personally because you think it applies to you.
Exactly.
| 125 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:06:43pm |
re: #119 wrenchwench
I didn't claim that that editorial said he had warning...
There are plenty of other stories documenting those. I said he had had other indications of the kid's problems, and then added the editorial that disapproved of his blaming rhetoric.
| 126 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:07:33pm |
re: #92 tradewind
But I think the sheriff shot off his mouth in part to deflect any responsibility that he bore for failing to remove a known threat from the Congresswoman's presence.
The kid didn't arise out of the unknown. There were other warnings.
Do you have any evidence for this? Or just a hunch in your partisan gut?
| 127 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:07:33pm |
Time to get out McSpiff's very useful AutoGAZE script again...
| 128 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:07:58pm |
re: #125 tradewind
I didn't claim that that editorial said he had warning...
There are plenty of other stories documenting those. I said he had had other indications of the kid's problems, and then added the editorial that disapproved of his blaming rhetoric.
No, you specifically stated "He had warning."
| 129 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:08:38pm |
re: #125 tradewind
I didn't claim that that editorial said he had warning...
There are plenty of other stories documenting those. I said he had had other indications of the kid's problems, and then added the editorial that disapproved of his blaming rhetoric.
Did the kid break any laws?
Are you in favor of arresting/detaining people who "don't seem quite right in the head" to "get them off the streets"?
What did you want the Sheriff to do exactly?
| 130 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:08:42pm |
re: #125 tradewind
I didn't claim that that editorial said he had warning...
There are plenty of other stories documenting those. I said he had had other indications of the kid's problems, and then added the editorial that disapproved of his blaming rhetoric.
Here it is.
68 tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:51:40pm replyquote
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: [Link: www.azcentral.com...]...]
You write as poorly as you read if this isn't what you meant.
| 131 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:09:18pm |
re: #112 Obdicut
Again: What, specifically, should Dupnik have done?
I tried to discuss this calmly yesterday, and we didn't get very far. As far as I can tell, Loughner had not previously done anything that could have been used to get him off the street.
He had apparently been on Gifford's radar previously, but to what extent she thought he was a threat is unclear.
I am surprised they did not have at least a few rent-a-cops for the event.
I do not think that security for the event, if it was not privately provided, would have fallen to the Pima County Sheriff's office. It seems to me it would have been a Tucson PD matter. I do not know why they didn't send a uniform or two around to be present.
I was told yesterday that the distinction between the Sheriff's department and the Tucson Police Department was 'anal'.
| 132 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:09:28pm |
re: #117 tradewind
I read it.
The editorial was not happy that the sheriff seemed more concerned with politicizing the tragedy than taking care of his job, which is law enforcement.
You push it here, when issues are brought up with it you say 'wudn't me, talk to them.'
Give me a break.
| 133 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:10:05pm |
re: #129 jamesfirecat
Did the kid break any laws?
Are you in favor of arresting/detaining people who "don't seem quite right in the head" to "get them off the streets"?
What did you want the Sheriff to do exactly?
Break any laws prior to the shooting.
And I'm also aware he actually did break some laws prior to the shooting actually, but that those trials failed to land him in jail is obviously not the Sheriff's fault...
| 134 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:10:25pm |
re: #97 tradewind
We'll see, down the road a bit.
I don't see the guy winning reelection, if he runs again, in any case.
Why? Because everyone in Tucson thinks like you?
Apparently not since Obama won Pima County 52-46.
| 135 |
allegro Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:10:50pm |
re: #125 tradewind
I didn't claim that that editorial said he had warning...
Why yes you did.
There are plenty of other stories documenting those.
Name some. One even that gave an indication that he was imminently dangerous and violent and that would warrant legal intervention.
I said he had had other indications of the kid's problems, and then added the editorial that disapproved of his blaming rhetoric.
You've demonstrated some problems that are clear to many here. Should you be picked up?
| 136 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:11:09pm |
/a Canadian one, to boot
| 137 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:11:43pm |
re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist
At this time, there's no evidence at all that Loughner ever threatened Giffords directly. Without that, there's absolutely nothing the police can do.
This issue is 100% pure bogus bullshit.
| 138 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:12:01pm |
re: #126 palomino
Generally when people preface a sentence with ' I think ', it means ' this is my opinion '.
What was that about reading comprehension?
Ya'll have a good day.
I will continue to pray for Representative Giffords' smooth recovery and comfort for the victims' families.
The sad thing is that we'll be soaking in this speculation for another few news cycles, and then something else will grab the headlines, it will be off the radar, and nothing concrete will be done to help prevent another nut from a repeat.
| 139 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:12:59pm |
re: #116 CuriousLurker
Rep. King didn't seem to be too concerned about guns and other types of political violence during the decades that he supported the IRA. I guess when it's your ass that might be in someone's cross-hairs, it kinda changes your perspective, huh?
From June 22, 2005:
Hey, the Mudjadeen Contras Iraqi Army under Saddam IRA was a bunch of freedom fighters; who cares about the deaths of thousands of innocent people when they're on our side?
/
| 140 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:13:01pm |
re: #55 tradewind
*facepalm*
You really ARE pathetic and clueless. The "gun to a knife fight" bit is a reference to The Untouchables:
| 141 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:13:01pm |
re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist
I tried to discuss this calmly yesterday, and we didn't get very far. As far as I can tell, Loughner had not previously done anything that could have been used to get him off the street.
He had apparently been on Gifford's radar previously, but to what extent she thought he was a threat is unclear.
I am surprised they did not have at least a few rent-a-cops for the event.
I do not think that security for the event, if it was not privately provided, would have fallen to the Pima County Sheriff's office. It seems to me it would have been a Tucson PD matter. I do not know why they didn't send a uniform or two around to be present.
I was told yesterday that the distinction between the Sheriff's department and the Tucson Police Department was 'anal'.
There you go making sense again.
What the hell is wrong with you?
| 142 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:13:10pm |
re: #121 tradewind
He didn't merely criticize it. He implied it was to blame.
That's an opinion unfounded in fact, and not shared, according to CBS's latest poll, by Americans in general.
And it's an opinion you don't like, so now Dupnik is the bad guy.
Look, I have no idea what's going through the man's head, but he's been the sheriff there for a while. I don't think he just randomly picked this idea out of the air. It sounds like the situation there has been very tense for some time.
I spent weeks on this site being told how Arizonans were in this very special situation that only they could understand, with the SB1070 situation. Mysteriously, this on-the-ground experience doesn't apply to the sheriff of Pima County.
| 143 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:13:50pm |
Those who scorn speculation seem to speculate as much as anybody, if not more, in the same breath.
| 144 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:14:04pm |
re: #140 Lidane
*facepalm*
You really ARE pathetic and clueless. The "gun to a knife fight" bit is a reference to The Untouchables:
[Video]
Obama said knife and gun in the same sentence. Obviously the man is inciting violence.
/
| 145 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:14:19pm |
re: #106 tradewind
That right wing talking point was an editorial straight out of the Arizona Republic, which is the largest newspaper in Phoenix.
Not my or a right-wing site's ideas.
You're the definition of a troll. You throw shit out, like this article, that you don't even understand. And then you don't even have the guts or knowledge to back up your assertions when challenged. You're a sad little shill.
| 146 |
justaminute Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:14:35pm |
New rules need to be instituted is you want to blame the Sheriff: All gun owners must present proof by a licensed Psychiatrist that they have meet the definition of having full mental health necessary to own a firearm. This has to be done on a yearly basis. The cost of the exam is the applicants responsibility.
| 147 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:14:59pm |
Crazy Corsi @ WND:
[Link: www.wnd.com...]
"Did Giffords subscribe to assassin's YouTube?
Bizarre connection: Online pages indicate some type of relationship"
Links to Pammie, also. I guess some staffer did subscribe by mistake after the event, but that it's a whole news item speaks volumes.
| 148 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:15:02pm |
re: #143 BigPapa
Those who scorn speculation seem to speculate as much as anybody, if not more, in the same breath.
I find it suspicious that you would bring that up under these circumstances. What are you trying to imply?
| 149 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:15:17pm |
re: #137 Charles
This issue is absolutely, 100%pure bogus bullshitSuper ELEVENTY11 Bullshit.
| 150 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:15:47pm |
| 151 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:16:07pm |
re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Obama said knife and gun in the same sentence. Obviously the man is inciting violence.
/
You know, I'm continually amazed at the sheer ridiculousness of some of these arguments. Every time I read one of these pathetic diversions, I can't believe there are actually people who believe them and don't see the blatant silliness.
| 152 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:16:11pm |
re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Indeed. By his logic, Gerald Ford was at fault for Squeaky Fromme's assassination attempt since he is known to have supported the right of due process. The latter, in turn, was probably the only thing that kept vigilantes and the cops from shooting the whole Manson family out of hand.
| 153 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:16:38pm |
re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist
Why should criticism of hateful rhetoric come across as partisan?
(Yes, that's a loaded question, boys and girls, and you should run and tell a grownup. Don't touch it!)
(I had those Eddie the Eagle coloring books from the NRA as a child.)
In this case it comes across as partisan because the paper's editors are either right wingers who don't want to hear what Dupnik has to say, OR because the editors are spineless and don't want to offend anyone. Either way it's pretty weak.
| 154 |
prairiefire Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:16:49pm |
re: #138 tradewind
Generally when people preface a sentence with ' I think ', it means ' this is my opinion '.
What was that about reading comprehension?
Ya'll have a good day.
I will continue to pray for Representative Giffords' smooth recovery and comfort for the victims' families.
The sad thing is that we'll be soaking in this speculation for another few news cycles, and then something else will grab the headlines, it will be off the radar, and nothing concrete will be done to help prevent another nut from a repeat.
It's not going to be off the radar if the Dems keep it front and center.
| 155 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:17:24pm |
re: #143 BigPapa
Those who scorn speculation seem to speculate as much as anybody, if not more, in the same breath.
I've tried my best not to do either.
| 156 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:17:56pm |
re: #151 Charles
You know, I'm continually amazed at the sheer ridiculousness of some of these arguments. Every time I read one of these pathetic diversions, I can't believe there are actually people who believe them and don't see the blatant silliness.
Reading comprehension and context of statements is a lost art form.
| 157 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:18:35pm |
re: #133 jamesfirecat
Break any laws prior to the shooting.
And I'm also aware he actually did break some laws prior to the shooting actually, but that those trials failed to land him in jail is obviously not the Sheriff's fault...
Also, once again, this would not have fallen under the sheriff's department's jurisdiction, unless Arizona has some unusual set-up, which it may.
| 158 |
tradewind Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:18:48pm |
re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist
According to an interview with the Sheriff reported by NPR , Loughner had made death threats known to law enforcement:
[Link: www.npr.org...]
| 159 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:18:51pm |
Who will Scorn the Scorners?
Who will Politicize the Politicizers?
Who will Alinksy the Alinsky-ers?
(.... whoa.... ducks)
| 160 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:19:02pm |
Sheriff Dupnik is on the Chris Matthews show right now...
| 161 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:19:05pm |
re: #13 wlewisiii
Safe zones are meaningless to anyone who wants to kill. The only thing it does is create a false sense of security that is more dangerous to the potential victims than a healthy bit of paranoia.
King's proposed law is silly in the extreme. How could anyone ever know if he was violating the law or not? Who can stay apprised at every moment of where every government official is, so as to avoid bringing a gun into that moving swarm of safety bubbles?
The purpose of such laws is to constrain, for the public good, the behavior of the more or less law abiding, and to give the government the authority to confine those who choose not to obey. This proposed law would not be obeyed by those who would like to obey, because they would not know what they should do, and it would have no effect on those who are not disposed to obey, because they would ignore it without consequence in most instances, and if they brought their gun and and started shooting, this law would be the least of their worries once their spree came to an end.
| 162 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:19:36pm |
| 163 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:20:17pm |
re: #151 Charles
You know, I'm continually amazed at the sheer ridiculousness of some of these arguments. Every time I read one of these pathetic diversions, I can't believe there are actually people who believe them and don't see the blatant silliness.
There is enough to discuss and even disagree on without having to waste time on silliness.
| 164 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:20:23pm |
re: #121 tradewind
He didn't merely criticize it. He implied it was to blame.
That's an opinion unfounded in fact, and not shared, according to CBS's latest poll, by Americans in general.
Maybe you can mis-analyze those poll results for us too.
But you're right. After the shooting, Americans now love posters with politicians in the crosshairs. And this will do wonders for Sarah Palin and Beck, neither of whom is on the defensive now or removing violently suggestive imagery from their websites.
| 165 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:20:50pm |
re: #158 tradewind
According to an interview with the Sheriff reported by NPR , Loughner had made death threats known to law enforcement:
[Link: www.npr.org...]
That's from 14 hours after the attack.
Got anything substantial?
| 166 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:21:21pm |
These assholes are like a stupid kids cartoon villains. The one who gets the tape recorder and records some one saying "I never said I stole the Bike", then plays back the clip "I stole the bike" to blackmail someone.
Fucking morons.
| 167 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:21:21pm |
Without a Felony charge and or conviction he was pretty much free to do as pleased.
Falsifying an Application for the purpose of buying a firearm is felony.
The question is how many nuts are going to mark
yes by the questions....
Have you ever been Adjudicated Mentally Unstable??
Are you an illegal user of Narcotics??( is the a legal one?)
Have you ever been convicted of a violent crime??
...Here Illegally??etc....
Pima County nor the City P.D. could have seen this coming unless they were up this kids ass 24/7! Period
| 168 |
Stanghazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:21:59pm |
re: #164 palomino
Maybe you can mis-analyze those poll results for us too.
But you're right. After the shooting, Americans now love posters with politicians in the crosshairs. And this will do wonders for Sarah Palin and Beck, neither of whom is on the defensive now or removing violently suggestive imagery from their websites.
Where IS Sister Sarah????
| 169 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:22:03pm |
re: #143 BigPapa
Those who scorn speculation seem to speculate as much as anybody, if not more, in the same breath.
I should have said 'Those who scorn speculation the most.....' but it seems most got what I meant. Reason and pragmatism warrants a chill on rampant speculation but the same reason and pragmatism cannot exclude any speculation.
I was talking of the Finger Waggers.
| 170 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:23:39pm |
re: #168 Stanley Sea
Where IS Sister Sarah???
Crying about all the animals she will never get to pretend to kill on camera.
| 171 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:24:51pm |
It's Chris Dodd and Barney Franks fault. Probably Nancy Pelosi too.
/
| 172 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:24:57pm |
re: #138 tradewind
Generally when people preface a sentence with ' I think ', it means ' this is my opinion '.
What was that about reading comprehension?
Ya'll have a good day.
I will continue to pray for Representative Giffords' smooth recovery and comfort for the victims' families.
The sad thing is that we'll be soaking in this speculation for another few news cycles, and then something else will grab the headlines, it will be off the radar, and nothing concrete will be done to help prevent another nut from a repeat.
So your opinions are based on nothing demonstrable that you can offer up. Halfway literate folk usually "think something" because of some evidence that they've encountered. Apparently that's too much to expect from you. You're essentially worthless as a contributor to this blog.
| 173 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:25:46pm |
re: #158 tradewind
According to an interview with the Sheriff reported by NPR , Loughner had made death threats known to law enforcement:
[Link: www.npr.org...]
If Dupnik understands correctly, then that would have been a judgement call by the Tucson PD. I'd be interested to know how it was handled, and what the exact situation was. If he told the neighbors he was going to kill them for calling the cops about his loud music, they probably would have reacted differently than if he wrote a letter saying he was going to shoot a member of Congress.
Without more information, I don't know if the ball was dropped.
Still a police department matter AFAIK.
| 174 |
jaunte Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:26:05pm |
re: #138 tradewind
nothing concrete will be done to help prevent another nut from a repeat.
What concrete move would you suggest?
| 175 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:26:51pm |
re: #167 reloadingisnotahobby
Without a Felony charge and or conviction he was pretty much free to do as pleased.
Falsifying an Application for the purpose of buying a firearm is felony.
The question is how many nuts are going to mark
yes by the questions...
Have you ever been Adjudicated Mentally Unstable??
Are you an illegal user of Narcotics??( is the a legal one?)
Have you ever been convicted of a violent crime??
...Here Illegally??etc...
Pima County nor the City P.D. could have seen this coming unless they were up this kids ass 24/7! Period
And I kind of suspect they got some other stuff to do...
| 176 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:27:35pm |
re: #174 jaunte
What concrete move would you suggest?
Maybe we can require them to wear armbands so we can identify them more easily. Thats a popular method in line with what Tradewind is proposing.
| 177 |
MinisterO Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:28:01pm |
re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist
I spent weeks on this site being told how Arizonans were in this very special situation that only they could understand, with the SB1070 situation. Mysteriously, this on-the-ground experience doesn't apply to the sheriff of Pima County.
Funny how that works, ain't it? They'd normally consider a man in his position an absolute authority. On anything. Until he criticizes their tactics. Hell, he didn't even name names. Didn't have to. Now he's the enemy.
| 178 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:28:04pm |
re: #172 palomino
You're essentially worthless as a contributor to this blog.
Well, except for keeping my blood pressure nice and high...
| 179 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:28:16pm |
re: #151 Charles
You know, I'm continually amazed at the sheer ridiculousness of some of these arguments. Every time I read one of these pathetic diversions, I can't believe there are actually people who believe them and don't see the blatant silliness.
They're blinded by racism and xenophobia, which you've done a very good job of documenting over the last two years.
Also, simpletons tend to believe what they want to believe. And many of them certainly don't want to believe that Obama could be a decent sincere person who also loves America.
| 180 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:29:09pm |
re: #177 MinisterO
Funny how that works, ain't it? They'd normally consider a man in his position an absolute authority. On anything. Until he criticizes their tactics. Hell, he didn't even name names. Didn't have to. Now he's the enemy.
Yeah, they love sheriffs. Except Democrat sheriffs.
| 181 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:29:13pm |
re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist
Dupnik specifically said that Loughner never directly threatened Giffords.
End of story.
| 182 |
elizajane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:29:21pm |
re: #145 palomino
You're the definition of a troll. You throw shit out, like this article, that you don't even understand. And then you don't even have the guts or knowledge to back up your assertions when challenged. You're a sad little shill.
Sorry, but down-dinged for incivility. I'm on your side of this argument but I'm just for civility as a matter of principle. It's one reason why I keep coming to LGF rather than most other sites (that and the excellent company).
| 183 |
jaunte Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:29:24pm |
re: #176 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"You're a nut! Put on the armband!"
"No, you're the true nut!"
| 184 |
MinisterO Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:29:49pm |
re: #178 wrenchwench
Well, except for keeping my blood pressure nice and high...
I imagine that's the point.
| 185 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:30:46pm |
re: #182 elizajane
Sorry, but down-dinged for incivility. I'm on your side of this argument but I'm just for civility as a matter of principle. It's one reason why I keep coming to LGF rather than most other sites (that and the excellent company).
I think civility can get out of hand...
///I'll try...
| 186 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:31:05pm |
re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist
Why should criticism of hateful rhetoric come across as partisan?
(Yes, that's a loaded question, boys and girls, and you should run and tell a grownup. Don't touch it!)
(I had those Eddie the Eagle coloring books from the NRA as a child.)
Criticism of hateful rhetoric is one thing. But authority figures should be wary of holding forth, in their capacity as authority, on subjects far from their expertise. Dupnik isn't a clinical psychiatrist. How would he know, better than the rest of us, how much if any connection there might be between talk about "death panels", say, and what Loughner did?
Governments make decisions about weighty matters. War and peace, life and death, wealth or poverty, hang in the balance. Any honest, serious discussion of the merits of competing agendas will involve drawing attention to the possible downside of the other agenda.
Those who are convinced that one position is correct and the other mistaken are always in the position of thinking that bad things are going to happen if the other side wins. Really bad things, sometimes. And these bad things do happen. We do have wars, and poverty, and so on, because we made bad choices. Or because we chose the least bad of a bad lot of options, depending how you saw it.
What is required, so that sane people will not draw the superficially "obvious" conclusion that the wrong side has got to be stopped, one way or another, is a meta-understanding.
It is better that the elected government go ahead and screw up, than that we fall to fighting over who should be in charge. There will be another election by and by.
It is a public duty, though not a legal duty, for opinion leaders of all stripes to uphold this meta-proposition, most especially when they've lost an electoral round and fear the worst.
| 187 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:31:22pm |
...A Dishonorable discharge from any Military service is also a no no
for getty new bang bang!
| 188 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:31:42pm |
Exhibit Q documenting republican leaders sheer ability to deflect any personal responsibility towards anything:
| 189 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:32:40pm |
re: #185 wrenchwench
...Why are you being nice to me???
What are you up to??Hmmm
| 190 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:32:40pm |
Suspect in rampage called 'very disturbed'
Dupnik said the suspected shooter has made death threats before and been contacted by law-enforcement officers. The threats weren't against Giffords, Dupnik said.
| 191 |
MinisterO Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:33:03pm |
re: #186 lostlakehiker
How would he know, better than the rest of us, how much if any connection there might be between talk about "death panels", say, and what Loughner did?
There's so much wrong with this it's hard to even begin taking it apart.
| 192 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:33:11pm |
re: #186 lostlakehiker
What is it Dupnik said you object to, specifically?
| 193 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:33:13pm |
re: #186 lostlakehiker
How would he know, better than the rest of us, how much if any connection there might be between talk about "death panels", say, and what Loughner did?
He's been in law enforcement in Pima County since 1958. Not all expertise needs a degree.
His call for calming of the rhetoric was probably the most important task his job required of him that day.
| 194 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:33:25pm |
re: #167 reloadingisnotahobby
Without a Felony charge and or conviction he was pretty much free to do as pleased.
Falsifying an Application for the purpose of buying a firearm is felony.
The question is how many nuts are going to mark
yes by the questions...
Have you ever been Adjudicated Mentally Unstable??
Are you an illegal user of Narcotics??( is the a legal one?)
Have you ever been convicted of a violent crime??
...Here Illegally??etc...
Pima County nor the City P.D. could have seen this coming unless they were up this kids ass 24/7! Period
His classmates saw it coming. They were tweeting each other that this guy's like the Virginia Tech student.
But as in that case, nobody pulled the metaphorical trigger and asked that the medical profession be brought in to assess the danger.
| 195 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:34:35pm |
re: #158 tradewind
According to an interview with the Sheriff reported by NPR , Loughner had made death threats known to law enforcement:
[Link: www.npr.org...]
Again, you misrepresent the article...must be your trolling specialty. The article gives no clue as to the nature of those threats, meaning they may have given law enforcement no reason to keep Loughner under surveillance every time Giffords was in town. Or whatever you think they should have done.
All part of your sleazy attempt to divert blame to a sheriff whose politics you disagree with.
| 197 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:35:54pm |
WTF, it's the sheriff's fault now?
For what? Not illegally arresting the perp? Is this how America works now?
Please.
Idiots.
| 198 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:36:12pm |
re: #194 lostlakehiker
His classmates saw it coming. They were tweeting each other that this guy's like the Virginia Tech student.
But as in that case, nobody pulled the metaphorical trigger and asked that the medical profession be brought in to assess the danger.
Brought in by who, and how?
| 199 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:36:29pm |
re: #168 Stanley Sea
Where IS Sister Sarah???
Laying low, hoping this will blow over. Her stock was already slipping some, this doesn't help.
| 200 |
justaminute Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:36:32pm |
Having been employed by a suburban and a metropolitan police department and the civilian courts being considered "crazy" can be applied to anyone. The most deadly calls the police officers make are in relation to domestic disturbances. Probably if you spent a week listening to a police scanner in your area you would have a hard time sleeping.
| 201 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:37:23pm |
re: #197 Varek Raith
WTF, it's the sheriff's fault now?
For what? Not illegally arresting the perp? Is this how America works now?
Please.
Idiots.
It's the sheriff's fault for making vitriolic people feel bad about themselves.
| 202 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:38:22pm |
re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist
Brought in by who, and how?
Indeed. Without a specific law being broken it is very difficult to force anyone to see a psychiatrist.
| 203 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:38:30pm |
From Cognitive Policy Works:
Learn How Propaganda Works: The Giffords Shooting
[...]
We encourage you to pay attention to the narratives as they unfold and consider the significance of the agendas they support. Our ability to address the threats of violent rhetoric will depend upon our understandings of media frames that set the scope of what is considered to be “reality”.
Watch for These:
The “Lone Shooter” Frame
Emphasis will be on individual actions, ignoring cultural patterns that influenced the event like the militant imagery of Tea Party leaders and Fox News personalities.The “Crazy Gunman” Frame
Effort will be made to reduce this complex event to the explanation that the shooter was insane, disregarding the anti-government sentiments that fueled him to action.The “Both Sides Equal” Frame
Media coverage will presume violent rhetoric is equal on the left and right, ignoring how leftist individuals target single people (e.g. Bush hater) while right-wing individuals target groups (e.g. liberals, Jews). Also the scale of violent imagery is disproportionately on the right side.The “We’re All Sorry” Frame
Spokespeople on the right who have fueled violent rhetoric (e.g Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh) will publicly condemn violent actions while continuing to promote negative views of entire classes of people. This behavior will not be present among liberals.These are just a sampling of what is starting to emerge. If you see others that you feel are significant, please share them in the comment thread.
| 204 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:38:48pm |
re: #200 justaminute
Having been employed by a suburban and a metropolitan police department and the civilian courts being considered "crazy" can be applied to anyone. The most deadly calls the police officers make are in relation to domestic disturbances. Probably if you spent a week listening to a police scanner in your area you would have a hard time sleeping.
I watched the licensing committee on public access in my city. Every single bartender (that I've seen apply) has a police record.
| 205 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:38:50pm |
re: #194 lostlakehiker
Well in that case the Classmates should have Twitted a Fucking GROWNUP or COP!
It's like coming up on an accident and using your phone to video it instead of calling 911!!
| 206 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:38:56pm |
re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist
Brought in by who, and how?
There was this guy I went to college with, crazy as a bedbug. By the time I transferred, at the end of sophomore year, his parents had rented him an apartment in town, and were essentially paying him not to come home.
It's really hard to force an adult to get psychiatric help.
| 207 |
prairiefire Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:39:32pm |
re: #199 palomino
Laying low, hoping this will blow over. Her stock was already slipping some, this doesn't help.
lol It's unbelievable how quite she's been. Somebody took away the Blackberrys.
| 208 |
allegro Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:39:54pm |
re: #194 lostlakehiker
But as in that case, nobody pulled the metaphorical trigger and asked that the medical profession be brought in to assess the danger.
The school expelled him pending psych eval. You do know that one cannot be compelled to seek or participate in treatment, don't you?
| 209 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:40:09pm |
I have some experience with how the police deal with death threats, unfortunately, and I can tell you that unless there is a very direct threat on your life, the police will not and cannot do anything.
The idea that you can just call in the guys with the butterfly nets to haul people like Loughner away is a stupid fantasy, being promoted by the right wing because they're feeling guilty about what Sheriff Dupnik said, and they're lashing out at him like vindictive morons.
| 210 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:40:31pm |
re: #205 reloadingisnotahobby
Well in that case the Classmates should have Twitted a Fucking GROWNUP or COP!
It's like coming up on an accident and using your phone to video it instead of calling 911!!
The police can't do anything about "My classmate is scary and nuts". Really. They can't.
| 211 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:40:38pm |
re: #204 Amory Blaine
I watched the licensing committee on public access in my city. Every single bartender (that I've seen apply) has a police record.
So they came out of the slammer with a skill??
/
| 212 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:41:16pm |
re: #205 reloadingisnotahobby
Well in that case the Classmates should have Twitted a Fucking GROWNUP or COP!
It's like coming up on an accident and using your phone to video it instead of calling 911!!
Right. Don't help the guy with blood spurting out of his neck, make sure you get the lighting right so you can see his reflection in the blood pool for the YouTube video!!!!
| 213 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:41:33pm |
re: #182 elizajane
Sorry, but down-dinged for incivility. I'm on your side of this argument but I'm just for civility as a matter of principle. It's one reason why I keep coming to LGF rather than most other sites (that and the excellent company).
Please allow me to plead my case. First, all I really did was say "shit" and call him a troll. Second, the poster has a long history of this kind of garbage. Third, his constant snarky diversions deserve derision. Finally, I didn't really get personal beyond calling him an ill-informed troll.
And I agree with your assessment of LGF. I rarely get any feistier than I did above. The relative civility I also find attractive. But in certain cases like this, I also find regulated fisticuffs acceptable.
| 214 |
gamark Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:41:33pm |
re: #25 lawhawk
In the end, I don't see this having the intended effect of improving security for members of Congress or govt officials.
We have emprical evidence that it won't work. The Gun Free School Zones haven't stopped any school shootings that I'm aware of.
It is unworkable but remarkable nonetheless that King (a GOPer from NY) was the one to make the proposal.
Its called pandering for votes. It happens quite frequently.
| 215 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:42:00pm |
It's simple. Without pointing at anyone directly, Dupnik shined a national spot light on the kind of over the top, violent political rhetoric that has been well document here at LGF.
For this, he must be demonized and discredited at all costs by those who use such rhetoric, profit from such rhetoric, or give such rhetoric a free pass.
Much like telling The Church centuries ago that the universe does not revolve around the earth, Dupnik uttered a truth that certain invested interests do not want to be heard by anyone.
| 216 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:43:35pm |
re: #215 Slumbering Behemoth
Parent: "Somebody" ate all the cookies in the cookie jar.
Child: No I didn't!
| 217 |
prairiefire Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:43:45pm |
re: #215 Slumbering Behemoth
I like how the sheriff kept his words very measured on Matthews. Geeze, Chrissy looks exhausted. He was barely registering what the sheriff was saying.
| 218 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:43:57pm |
re: #194 lostlakehiker
Did you have any answer to what Dupnik specifically said you objected to?
You wrote a hell of a lot, but you never actually said what it was he said that you feel he shouldn't have.
| 219 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:44:15pm |
re: #212 Amory Blaine
Right. Don't help the guy with blood spurting out of his neck, make sure you get the lighting right so you can see his reflection in the blood pool for the YouTube video!!!
There was a editorial a few weeks back about a speaker collapsing on stage. The audience pulled out their mobiles and started texting what happened but no one moved to help the guy. Someone backstage came out to check on him.
| 220 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:44:50pm |
re: #216 prononymous
Parent: "Somebody" ate all the cookies in the cookie jar.
Child: No I didn't!
Exactly. People know precisely what they've been doing, and why. Now they're hysterical because someone dared say in public it was dangerous.
| 221 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:44:57pm |
re: #192 Obdicut
What is it Dupnik said you object to, specifically?
As a private citizen, he has as much right to his opinion as any of us. I think he's off base in suggesting that, as a law enforcement professional, he knows as much as he would have to know about mentally disturbed folks' behavior to be able to link this attack to a specific ideology.
CNN carried an interview with a genuine professional in that field where the conclusion was the opposite: Loughner didn't have an ideology. He had a mental illness.
I accept Dubnik's point that as a general rule, it is better that we tone it down.
But a climate of vituperative attacks does more damage in the aggregate by just wearing down the willingness of good people to serve, than it does by triggering extreme events.
Laying these murders at the doors of every conservative who foretold high unemployment, or who now claims inflation is coming, or what have you, is in its own way another symptom of the very problem Dupnik is decrying.
So, I would gently suggest to Dubnik that he's upset, and naturally so, but how can he be so sure that he understands the chain of cause and effect in this case? Won't we know more later?
| 222 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:45:09pm |
So I poked my head in over at Freeperville...
Arizona Moves To Ban Funeral Protests (Legislature bans leftwing lunatic Westboro Baptists)
WBC... leftwing?
| 223 |
BongCrodny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:45:43pm |
re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
There was a editorial a few weeks back about a speaker collapsing on stage. The audience pulled out their mobiles and started texting what happened but no one moved to help the guy. Someone backstage came out to check on him.
We've become the Eloi.
| 224 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:45:46pm |
re: #213 palomino
Please allow me to plead my case. First, all I really did was say "shit" and call him a troll. Second, the poster has a long history of this kind of garbage. Third, his constant snarky diversions deserve derision. Finally, I didn't really get personal beyond calling him an ill-informed troll.
And I agree with your assessment of LGF. I rarely get any feistier than I did above. The relative civility I also find attractive. But in certain cases like this, I also find regulated fisticuffs acceptable.
I basically figured I'm screwed on the civility count and just roll with it.
| 225 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:46:27pm |
re: #221 lostlakehiker
I'm sorry, instead of writing huge paragraphs that say little or nothing, can you answer this question?
What, specifically, did Dupnik say that you object to?
| 226 |
Kronocide Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:46:40pm |
re: #218 Obdicut
You wrote a hell of a lot, but you never actually said what it was he said that you feel he shouldn't have.
I think it's the fact that he said something uncomfortable for a large subset of the population. But I don't want to speculate or jump to any conclusions.
| 227 |
Stanghazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:46:54pm |
re: #215 Slumbering Behemoth
It's simple. Without pointing at anyone directly, Dupnik shined a national spot light on the kind of over the top, violent political rhetoric that has been well document here at LGF.
For this, he must be demonized and discredited at all costs by those who use such rhetoric, profit from such rhetoric, or give such rhetoric a free pass.
Much like telling The Church centuries ago that the universe does not revolve around the earth, Dupnik uttered a truth that certain invested interests do not want to be heard by anyone.
Very well put SB.
| 228 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:01pm |
| 229 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:03pm |
re: #221 lostlakehiker
Has Laughner been medically diagnosed as insane or whatever?
If not, you're just making a big assumption about his mental state.
| 230 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:10pm |
re: #186 lostlakehiker
You really think the sheriff's comments were motivated by the midterm losses? Regardless, why does someone whose party just lost need to refrain from comment?
Fact is the sheriff was speaking emotionally because someone he likes got shot. As far as his lack of psychological training, you're correct, although he's probably an expert in criminology, whether by education or sheer experience. And his position gives him access to all kinds of info that you and I may never even see.
His words may have far more substance than you're willing to admit. His sentiment is certainly consistent with the rise of right wing violent rhetoric we've seen over the last two years.
| 231 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:10pm |
re: #222 JasonA
So I poked my head in over at Freeperville...
WBC... leftwing?
Of course they are. Fred Phelps is a well-known civil-rights attorney. He even "took cases on behalf of African American clients alleging racial discrimination by school systems". Obviously a bleeding-heart leftist.
/
| 232 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:22pm |
re: #222 JasonA
So I poked my head in over at Freeperville...
WBC... leftwing?
Figures, Freepers would try to palm them off on the left.
Fact is, the Phelpses are about the only group I would say cannot be assigned a side of the aisle, even on a contingency basis. They hate everyone with apparent equality.
| 233 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:56pm |
re: #215 Slumbering Behemoth
He didn't need to point out anyone directly...obviously, they know who they are, as evidenced by their reactions to him: Megyn Kelly, fox spokesmodel, accuses him of being political. Rush Limbaugh, oxycontin-head, is spewing verbal diarrhea over the comment. The methadone ready team at Fox & Friends, Glenn "Sarah Palin needs security or the Republic will come down" Beck and the half term governor are all due for a weekend in the Catskills together hashing out an even more insane response. The only possible exception is the "senior Republican Senator" (who is so afraid of his/her constituents that he/she refuses to be named) who said the sheriff was right and that people need to tone down their rhetoric.
| 234 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:48:21pm |
re: #222 JasonA
So I poked my head in over at Freeperville...
WBC... leftwing?
Papa Phelps ran for local offices on the Dem ticket several times in the past. That's all the info some need to call the WBs "left wing".
| 235 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:48:24pm |
re: #229 Varek Raith
Has Laughner been medically diagnosed as insane or whatever?
If not, you're just making a big assumption about his mental state.
Well, you would have to be insane to do what he did, right?
///
| 236 |
MinisterO Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:48:27pm |
re: #221 lostlakehiker
I think he's off base in suggesting that, as a law enforcement professional, he knows as much as he would have to know about mentally disturbed folks' behavior to be able to link this attack to a specific ideology.
He didn't.
| 237 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:49:30pm |
re: #194 lostlakehiker
His classmates saw it coming. They were tweeting each other that this guy's like the Virginia Tech student.
But as in that case, nobody pulled the metaphorical trigger and asked that the medical profession be brought in to assess the danger.
In all probability, none of them legally could. We had a long discussion on the mental health & the laws thereof last night.
| 238 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:49:34pm |
re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
These assholes are like a stupid kids cartoon villains. The one who gets the tape recorder and records some one saying "I never said I stole the Bike", then plays back the clip "I stole the bike" to blackmail someone.
Fucking morons.
That is Andy Breitfarts stock in trade, out of context quotes
| 239 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:49:36pm |
re: #1 goddamnedfrank
Can you imagine the fuckery that would erupt if a Democrat introduced such a bill?
The NRA's home office would actually lift off its foundations and fly around like a saucer
| 240 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:49:47pm |
re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist
Figures, Freepers would try to palm them off on the left.
Fact is, the Phelpses are about the only group I would say cannot be assigned a side of the aisle, even on a contingency basis. They hate everyone with apparent equality.
They're planning on picketing at the little girl's funeral. :(
| 241 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:49:55pm |
re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth
Papa Phelps ran for local offices on the Dem ticket several times in the past. That's all the info some need to call the WBs "left wing".
But... David Duke also... that means...
*thud*
| 242 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:49:58pm |
re: #233 darthstar
He didn't need to point out anyone directly...obviously, they know who they are, as evidenced by their reactions to him: Megyn Kelly, fox spokesmodel, accuses him of being political. Rush Limbaugh, oxycontin-head, is spewing verbal diarrhea over the comment. The methadone ready team at Fox & Friends, Glenn "Sarah Palin needs security or the Republic will come down" Beck and the half term governor are all due for a weekend in the Catskills together hashing out an even more insane response. The only possible exception is the "senior Republican Senator" (who is so afraid of his/her constituents that he/she refuses to be named) who said the sheriff was right and that people need to tone down their rhetoric.
Right. How can you look to the republicans for sane leadership when the only "senior member" asking to tone down the rhetoric has to speak anonymously because he fears reprisals from his own party?
| 243 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:50:07pm |
Humans are quite capable of doing really fucked up shit and still be perfectly sane and in full control.
| 244 |
prairiefire Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:50:26pm |
re: #230 palomino
I've read about about three different denunciations of heated rhetoric from the Gifford's camp. I think the situation is one of documented concern over the months of service.
The sheriff is certainly qualified to comment on community unrest.
| 245 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:50:36pm |
re: #240 JasonA
They're planning on picketing at the little girl's funeral. :(
I'm very disappointed God got out of the smiting business.
| 246 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:51:38pm |
re: #245 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm very disappointed God got out of the smiting business.
Phelpses.
What more evidence for atheism do you need?
///
| 247 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:51:50pm |
re: #240 JasonA
They're planning on picketing at the little girl's funeral. :(
Yeah.
They do that.
Apparently AZ legislators are trying to put something through in a hurry that will allow them to push them back some ways and not let them too close to the mourners.
| 248 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:03pm |
re: #233 darthstar
I turned on the radio the other day, and Mark Levin called Dupnik a menace, and said he wasn't a "real" sheriff.
Deflectors at full power!
| 249 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:12pm |
re: #194 lostlakehiker
His classmates saw it coming. They were tweeting each other that this guy's like the Virginia Tech student.
But as in that case, nobody pulled the metaphorical trigger and asked that the medical profession be brought in to assess the danger.
His classmates are getting on TV saying they saw it coming. I know people who are a little off-balance...do I think they'll do the same? No. If they ever do snap and do something like this will I go out and say, "I knew they were dangerous!" to get my ass on TV. No. If I were to hear one of them say they were considering such an act would I report them? Yes. But "pulling the metaphorical trigger" and reporting someone because they're a little different isn't something I'd recommend...hell, half the people you know would probably report you.
| 250 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:15pm |
re: #207 prairiefire
lol It's unbelievable how quite she's been. Somebody took away the Blackberrys.
She should probably make some comments about the whole situation. But the problem is that she's not really articulate enough to make a convincing case to anyone besides her hardcore base. She trades in slogans and snark, not much else.
| 251 |
BongCrodny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:31pm |
re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth
Papa Phelps ran for local offices on the Dem ticket several times in the past. That's all the info some need to call the WBs "left wing".
Yep. 99 44/100% pure won't do.
I had a friend down in D.C. who was a moderate when it came to social issues and pretty conservative on military and economic issues. He told me that he once attended a young conservatives rally. When he mentioned that he was against the death penalty, one of the others attending said "You must be a liberal."
| 252 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:38pm |
re: #68 tradewind
If Dupnik had been on duty, the creep could have been off the streets. He had warning. No wonder he had so much to say... Preemptively, before the lawsuits:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
So is your account at LGF just hooked directly to Rush Limbaugh's twitter feed? :D
| 253 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:45pm |
re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah.
They do that.
Apparently AZ legislators are trying to put something through in a hurry that will allow them to push them back some ways and not let them too close to the mourners.
Anything for attention.
| 254 |
Liberal Classic Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:53pm |
I really hate WBC but I have misgivings about the laws being proposed to prevent protests at funerals. If I still lived in Arizona I'd be there to counter-protest.
| 255 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:52:58pm |
re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth
I turned on the radio the other day, and Mark Levin called Dupnik a menace, and said he wasn't a "real" sheriff.
Deflectors at full power!
I can't Captain!!! The shields... will not hold...
| 256 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:53:06pm |
re: #241 Sergey Romanov
But... David Duke also... that means...
*thud*
Oh, they'd like us to get him as well.
| 257 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:53:37pm |
re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist
There was this guy I went to college with, crazy as a bedbug. By the time I transferred, at the end of sophomore year, his parents had rented him an apartment in town, and were essentially paying him not to come home.
It's really hard to force an adult to get psychiatric help.
I'm bipolar with no health insurance. It's really hard for an uninsured adult to get psychiatric help if they are completely willing and begging for it.
People talk like psychiatric care is something that just falls from the sky. Bullshit. The most effective antipsychotics cost $600 a month or more.
| 258 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:53:48pm |
re: #252 WindUpBird
So is your account at LGF just hooked directly to Rush Limbaugh's twitter feed? :D
It really is telling when people find it necessary to discredit this Sheriff.
| 259 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:53:56pm |
re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist
Brought in by who, and how?
Isn't there any threshold of derangement that merits the attention of psychiatric professionals? Must we just wait and play a game of musical chairs where those who can't find a seat out of the line of fire, die?
I don't know the details of AZ (or any other state's) laws on mental illness. I do know that there are deranged, obviously dangerous people running around loose, and that there were legal reforms after the VA Tech shootings designed to even the scales between privacy rights, on the one hand, and the right of other civilians to life itself, on the other.
I don't know if anybody even attempted to get this kid into voluntary treatment. Who knows? He might have consented if asked nicely. It would have been worth a try.
| 260 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:54:06pm |
re: #245 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm very disappointed God got out of the smiting business.
Loki: You got to read at Sodom and Gomorrah. I had to do all the work.
Bartleby: What work did you do? You lit a few fires.
Loki: I rained down sulfur, man. There's a subtle difference.
Bartleby: Oh, okay, I'm sure.
Loki: Hey, you know, fuck you man. Any moron with a pack of matches can set a fire. Raining down sulfur is like an endurance trial. Mass genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in . . . next to soccer.
| 261 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:54:33pm |
Henry Rollins: Don’t Blame Sarah Palin, Just Stop Paying Attention!
I could be completely wrong here, but I think there is a much harder-core element in American society that doesn’t listen to these pundits, doesn’t care who is president, and has nothing but contempt and hatred for government in general. I don’t believe it mattered to Timothy McVeigh who was president or who his congressional representative was when he blew up the Murrah Building in 1995.
I know that Loughner had a history of extreme dislike for representative Giffords. I just can’t believe he got that from a map drawn up by Sarah Palin or the bug-eyed-baby ravings of Glenn Beck.
One thing I think we can count on is that no conservative radio personality will be toning down their rap at all. They are now almost forced to keep it up, to show that they are in no way a part of this case.
Again, you might not dig this, but I don’t want them to tone it down. I want them to have the same First Amendment rights that I enjoy. What I want is for everyone else to evolve and stop listening. I want for these talkers to have such low ratings due to non-interest that they are dropped from their contracts and fall into immediate and absolute obscurity. That would be the ultimate victory. The right people would win and the right people would lose. For Limbaugh and his ilk, it would be a defeat so totally crushing that they would never recover. Even if they did, no one would notice.
Immediately, what is to be done? Gun control? Too late. You can always get a gun in America. Censorship? Slippery slope. In my opinion, it always comes down to the same thing: education. You pump up the volume on the smart factor in America and this regrettable and tragic era would be in our collective rear-view with all speed.
| 262 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:55:17pm |
re: #255 Amory Blaine
I can't Captain!!! The shields... will not hold...
Use the array thingy! Use the array thingy!
| 263 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:55:20pm |
re: #254 Liberal Classic
I really hate WBC but I have misgivings about the laws being proposed to prevent protests at funerals. If I still lived in Arizona I'd be there to counter-protest.
I'd do it in nothing but short-shorts and tennis shoes just to see the digust in their faces...
| 264 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:55:25pm |
re: #246 Sergey Romanov
Phelpses.
What more evidence for atheism do you need?
///
That the Phelpses exist is proof that God does not?
I see it the other way around. The Phelpses keep alive my faith in a judgement after death, because I have to believe that eventually someone is going to smack them good and hard for dedicating their lives to soulless hatred.
| 265 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:55:35pm |
re: #229 Varek Raith
Has Laughner been medically diagnosed as insane or whatever?
If not, you're just making a big assumption about his mental state.
I've read enough that I think it's a very good bet he will be so diagnosed. We shall see.
| 266 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:56:16pm |
re: #262 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Use the array thingy! Use the array thingy!
a[] of {...}
Damn...it's not working.
| 267 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:56:24pm |
re: #264 SanFranciscoZionist
That the Phelpses exist is proof that God does not?
I see it the other way around. The Phelpses keep alive my faith in a judgement after death, because I have to believe that eventually someone is going to smack them good and hard for dedicating their lives to soulless hatred.
OK, how many more /-s do I need to add? ;-)
| 268 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:56:38pm |
re: #262 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Use the array thingy! Use the array thingy!
Sigh...
Set the computer to auto remodulate shield frequencies every milisecond.
| 269 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:56:58pm |
re: #221 lostlakehiker
Laying these murders at the doors of every conservative who foretold high unemployment, or who now claims inflation is coming, or what have you, is in its own way another symptom of the very problem Dupnik is decrying.
How on earth is Dupnik blaming this on conservatives who predicted high unemployment (after they oversaw it, that is)?
We're talking about culturally charged rage, not legitimate differences of opinion on economic matters.
| 270 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:57:30pm |
re: #258 JasonA
It really is telling when people find it necessary to discredit this Sheriff.
I understand perfectly someone going "wow, this guy's getting a little political and seems to be angling for a step up on the political ladder". There's a case for that
Claiming that he's responsible for this crime, that he could have done something to magically prevent it, is really the sort of thing that you gotta give up on. There's no calories there, no real discussion can be had, I don't argue with obeisant talking point stenographers, and that seems to be all Tradewind is at this point. I argue with real people :D
| 271 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:57:45pm |
re: #254 Liberal Classic
I really hate WBC but I have misgivings about the laws being proposed to prevent protests at funerals. If I still lived in Arizona I'd be there to counter-protest.
I have misgivings too, but this is one of those times when being a purist about the First Amendment is just too damn hard for me.
I hope they make the right decision.
I hope the little girl's family is protected.
I hope that the ground opens up and drops the Phelpses alive into the pit of hell, too, like Korach in the Bible, but suspect I'm not gonna get that one.
| 272 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:58:06pm |
re: #261 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
GO HANK
| 273 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:58:36pm |
re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist
I have misgivings too, but this is one of those times when being a purist about the First Amendment is just too damn hard for me.
I hope they make the right decision.
I hope the little girl's family is protected.
I hope that the ground opens up and drops the Phelpses alive into the pit of hell, too, like Korach in the Bible, but suspect I'm not gonna get that one.
I think we just bring in the bikers again and they just block off their protest with tarps :D
| 274 |
Kragar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:58:39pm |
re: #268 Varek Raith
Sigh...
Set the computer to auto remodulate shield frequencies every milisecond.
/breaks out the pointy stick
| 275 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:58:42pm |
Arizona Legislature unanimously passes bill meant to stop church from protesting at funerals of Tucson shooting victims.
On CNN mainpage.
| 276 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:59:01pm |
re: #254 Liberal Classic
I really hate WBC but I have misgivings about the laws being proposed to prevent protests at funerals. If I still lived in Arizona I'd be there to counter-protest.
Deny them your hatred. It is like mana to them.
| 277 |
Liberal Classic Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:59:16pm |
re: #263 JasonA
I'd do it in nothing but short-shorts and tennis shoes just to see the digust in their faces...
My sports car is wake the neighbors loud. I'd be proud to red line it next to his ear.
| 278 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:59:45pm |
re: #277 Liberal Classic
My sports car is wake the neighbors loud. I'd be proud to red line it next to his ear.
whatcha got? :D
| 279 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:59:49pm |
| 280 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:00:34pm |
re: #279 JasonA
Go Stranger! They've always had good ideas for covers, love 'em
| 281 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:00:53pm |
re: #269 palomino
How on earth is Dupnik blaming this on conservatives who predicted high unemployment (after they oversaw it, that is)?
We're talking about culturally charged rage, not legitimate differences of opinion on economic matters.
Hey, people like this are blaming the dying birds on DADT repeal...of course they're going to accuse Dupnik of being unfair to conservatives.
| 282 |
philosophus invidius Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:00:57pm |
I would support this bill with the amendment that it would be illegal to bring a gun within 1,000 feet of a government official or a child.
| 283 |
palomino Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:00:58pm |
re: #270 WindUpBird
I understand perfectly someone going "wow, this guy's getting a little political and seems to be angling for a step up on the political ladder". There's a case for that
Claiming that he's responsible for this crime, that he could have done something to magically prevent it, is really the sort of thing that you gotta give up on. There's no calories there, no real discussion can be had, I don't argue with obeisant talking point stenographers, and that seems to be all Tradewind is at this point. I argue with real people :D
He's getting a little political because he's a politician. Just like other officeholders, he chooses a party and runs for office.
| 284 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:01:01pm |
re: #259 lostlakehiker
Isn't there any threshold of derangement that merits the attention of psychiatric professionals? Must we just wait and play a game of musical chairs where those who can't find a seat out of the line of fire, die?
I don't know the details of AZ (or any other state's) laws on mental illness. I do know that there are deranged, obviously dangerous people running around loose, and that there were legal reforms after the VA Tech shootings designed to even the scales between privacy rights, on the one hand, and the right of other civilians to life itself, on the other.
I don't know if anybody even attempted to get this kid into voluntary treatment. Who knows? He might have consented if asked nicely. It would have been worth a try.
I don't know either, but I do know that the school threw him out, pending a psych eval. I suspect we'll all know a lot more in a few weeks.
Seriously, though, yes, we do play that game of musical chairs for reasons as good as our Constitutional rights, and as bad as our broken health-care system.
Once he was eighteen, there was a very limited amount to what could be done, so long as he did not break the law--and when he broke the law, there are no enhanced penalties for 'crazy' or automatic support for 'evidently nuts'.
| 285 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:01:03pm |
re: #268 Varek Raith
Sigh...
Set the computer to auto remodulate shield frequencies every milisecond.
The DittoCam is on the same frequency as the shields!!!!! AARRggggg Help!!!!
| 286 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:01:53pm |
re: #285 Amory Blaine
The DittoCam is on the same frequency as the shields!!! AARRggg Help!!!
Game over, man. Game over.
| 287 |
Liberal Classic Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:02:12pm |
re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist
I have misgivings too, but this is one of those times when being a purist about the First Amendment is just too damn hard for me.
I hope they make the right decision.
I hope the little girl's family is protected.
I hope that the ground opens up and drops the Phelpses alive into the pit of hell, too, like Korach in the Bible, but suspect I'm not gonna get that one.
I understand where you're coming from. I really do. This tragic event has somehow managed to touch many foundation issues of American civics all at once: freedom of speech, assembly, self-protection, self-determiniation.
| 288 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:02:42pm |
re: #275 Varek Raith
Arizona Legislature unanimously passes bill meant to stop church from protesting at funerals of Tucson shooting victims.
On CNN mainpage.
There goes that first amendment thingy again. They really don't think very far ahead, do they? Reactionary assholes. WBC loves this kind of shit.
| 289 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:03:31pm |
re: #283 palomino
He's getting a little political because he's a politician. Just like other officeholders, he chooses a party and runs for office.
Which i'm fine with. Especially since he's basically dealing with the heart of this crazy political climate.
But these guys just go right past the rational position, and into Alex Jones bizarro territory.
What do you say to people like that? HE COULD HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE!!! HE'S RESPONSIBLE!! You treat them like moon landing nuts.
| 290 |
zora Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:03:53pm |
re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
...Gilmer and others are planning an "angel action" -- with 8- by 10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants to shield mourners from picketers. Angel actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming...
| 291 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:07:55pm |
re: #259 lostlakehiker
Isn't there any threshold of derangement that merits the attention of psychiatric professionals? Must we just wait and play a game of musical chairs where those who can't find a seat out of the line of fire, die?
I don't know the details of AZ (or any other state's) laws on mental illness. I do know that there are deranged, obviously dangerous people running around loose, and that there were legal reforms after the VA Tech shootings designed to even the scales between privacy rights, on the one hand, and the right of other civilians to life itself, on the other.
I don't know if anybody even attempted to get this kid into voluntary treatment. Who knows? He might have consented if asked nicely. It would have been worth a try.
MAN it is interesting listening to the libertarian go "someone in government should do something!"
Tell you what, if mental health in this country were actually funded, and supported, and we had a 21st century system for health in America, MAYBE you start to get some of the dangerous crazies some help, maybe. I know many MANY people who work in mental health. And they make shit, they make like McDonalds money, and their jobs are unstable and dangerous. It's ludicrous.
You could probably start by paying social workers what they're worth and making sure they don't have like 100 people as their caseload. That'd help. So they might have the OPPORTUNITY to know this kid even exists and then get him into voluntary treatment.
No money for mental health = mentally ill people have no infrastructure by which to get treatment.
| 292 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:08:08pm |
re: #279 JasonA
Sneak Preview of the Cover of The Stranger This Week, Created by Dan Savage and Aaron Huffman
Awesome. Dan Savage is brilliant as always.
| 293 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:10:05pm |
re: #291 WindUpBird
and I'm not even saying this guy would have been caught. he probably wouldn't have been caught.
But you can't have it both ways.
You cannot be hostile to health care reform and hostile to social services spending and then at the same time, casting about, waving your hands in the air going WHY CAN'T THE GOVERNMENT DO THIS
because when you're for small government? You're for reducing the resources by which the mentally ill get treatment.
| 294 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:10:43pm |
re: #292 Lidane
Awesome. Dan Savage is brilliant as always.
That'll stir up the gibbery rw blogosphere a bit :D
| 295 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:11:57pm |
re: #294 WindUpBird
That'll stir up the gibbery rw blogosphere a bit :D
I'm not convinced that they'll get it.
| 296 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:12:02pm |
re: #288 darthstar
There goes that first amendment thingy again. They really don't think very far ahead, do they? Reactionary assholes. WBC loves this kind of shit.
Laws passed in the heat of anger or sorrow are usually bad ones.
| 297 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:12:23pm |
re: #254 Liberal Classic
I really hate WBC but I have misgivings about the laws being proposed to prevent protests at funerals. If I still lived in Arizona I'd be there to counter-protest.
I have no misgivings about this. As a parent, I can all too easily recall the days when my son was very young and I was gripped by the worst kind of dread & terror on the few occasions when he went missing for a few minutes and I thought something might have happened to him.
I cannot imagine what kind of soul crushing pain a parent must feel when their child is murdered like this. To prohibit a group of snarling, vicious hatemongers from adding to the parents' misery is fine by me. A child's funeral should be off limits, IMO.
| 298 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:13:14pm |
re: #290 zora
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
...Gilmer and others are planning an "angel action" -- with 8- by 10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants to shield mourners from picketers. Angel actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming...
Good for them.
When the WBC came out to San Francisco, they picketed our local Jewish high school. The kids made it a fundraiser, and got people to pledge money for every fifteen-minute section the Phelpses stuck around.
| 299 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:13:23pm |
re: #275 Varek Raith
Arizona Legislature unanimously passes bill meant to stop church from protesting at funerals of Tucson shooting victims.
On CNN mainpage.
Good for them.
| 300 |
Four More Tears Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:13:27pm |
re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist
Laws passed in the heat of anger or sorrow are usually bad ones.
You just hurt the Patriot Act's feelings.
| 301 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:15:39pm |
re: #265 lostlakehiker
I've read enough that I think it's a very good bet he will be so diagnosed. We shall see.
How much you want to bet? The sheer degree of premeditation going on here makes me REALLY DOUBT he'll be ruled legally insane...
| 302 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:18:23pm |
re: #301 jamesfirecat
Then the death penalty is ON the table!
| 303 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:20:51pm |
re: #293 WindUpBird
You cannot be hostile to health care reform and hostile to social services spending and then at the same time, casting about, waving your hands in the air going WHY CAN'T THE GOVERNMENT DO THIS
because when you're for small government? You're for reducing the resources by which the mentally ill get treatment.
YES! This, exactly.
I'm always amused when the same people who would dismantle entire departments of government (Education, etc.) turn around and demand why the government didn't know about/couldn't help prevent/couldn't avoid a situation like the Giffords shooting in advance. It's like they don't realize the disconnect in those two positions.
| 304 |
Lidane Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:22:31pm |
re: #265 lostlakehiker
I've read enough that I think it's a very good bet he will be so diagnosed. We shall see.
A clinical diagnosis of mental illness =/= the shooter being legally insane. They're two different things.
| 305 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:26:39pm |
re: #304 Lidane
A clinical diagnosis of mental illness =/= the shooter being legally insane. They're two different things.
True. My prediction at this point is that he'll be found competent to stand trial. The defense will focus on his mental illness, the prosecution will push for the death penalty and emphasize the premeditation.
Or, they might find some sort of grounds for a plea bargain.
| 306 |
sizzleRI Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:32:34pm |
re: #293 WindUpBird
and I'm not even saying this guy would have been caught. he probably wouldn't have been caught.
But you can't have it both ways.
You cannot be hostile to health care reform and hostile to social services spending and then at the same time, casting about, waving your hands in the air going WHY CAN'T THE GOVERNMENT DO THIS
because when you're for small government? You're for reducing the resources by which the mentally ill get treatment.
Yes yes yes yes yes!!!!
| 307 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:35:02pm |
re: #92 tradewind
No. I think it's the whack job's fault.
But I think the sheriff shot off his mouth in part to deflect any responsibility that he bore for failing to remove a known threat from the Congresswoman's presence.
The kid didn't arise out of the unknown. There were other warnings.
If Loughner was known to the sheriff's department before this all went down and they had credible, actionable info that he would do something like this, then heads should roll. If the sheriff's department did not have actionable, credible info about what Loughner was planning, there's not really anything that they could have done that wouldn't have violated his due process rights, even if he had some prior record.
You're acting and sounding like a contemptible partisan hack; Loughner might be crazy, but that makes it all the more important to understand what role, if any, that the irresponsible talk coming from the right side of the aisle these days played in what he did. Seems to me that the less rational someone is (through mental deficiencies or illness), the more susceptible someone like Loughner is to taking that crap to heart and acting on it. To borrow a line from Real Genius, irresponsible political talk (from either side of the spectrum) is like "lasing a stick of dynamite", setting off the unstable by giving them a framework of sorts to act on.
| 308 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:35:45pm |
re: #95 Charles
We can always depend on you to parrot the most ridiculous right wing talking points.
It's indefensible bullshit, that's what it is...
| 309 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:49:56pm |
re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
There was a editorial a few weeks back about a speaker collapsing on stage. The audience pulled out their mobiles and started texting what happened but no one moved to help the guy. Someone backstage came out to check on him.
Not just any speaker, but Bill Nye the Science Guy was the one who collapsed during a guest lecture, while people looked on and tweeted (at first).
| 310 |
dmon Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:55:12pm |
For about 30 bucks a year per person the state of Arizona could probably have a working mental health system and some of these folks would have the meds they need, or be in institution receiving the treatment they need....... but hell no....government needs to be smaller, if that means that the mentally ill live on the street and eat out trash cans, thats fine...."you aint gettin my 30 bucks"....... hell throw in another 20 or 30 and the father of three could have had that heart he needed........but "you aint gettin my 30 bucks"......
But when one of nuts kills six people?....the sheriff should have known and stopped him.....unbelievable
| 311 |
latitude51 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:38:48pm |
That's only 333 yards. Not far enough for one who is determined and has a little skill.
| 312 |
Peter Kaufman Wed, Jan 12, 2011 8:22:14am |
I would encourage everyone to do what I just did, which is to phone Rep. King's office, and ask that their name also be added to the list of the 1,000 yard exclusion zone.
As I said to the person who answered the phone, 'I support Representative King's desire to be 1,000 feet away from a gun. I feel the same way. So it can be 535 people, plus 1, "me". What is the harm?
I asked for the aide to take my name and address so the Congressman can get back to me.
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
