Another Right Wing Lunatic Arrested for Threatening a Congressman

Wingnuts • Views: 23,681

A 32-year old Palm Springs resident named Charles Turner Habermann has been arrested and charged with threatening Seattle Congressman Jim McDermott.

I wonder how the wingnuts will try to explain this one away.

The threats preceded by several weeks the deadly Arizona shooting that saw six killed and U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords severely wounded.

Habermann also disparaged Democrats for their views on tax cuts and unemployment insurance, according to the statement. Habermann is alleged to have threatened to kill McDermott in an effort to interfere with his vote on the tax cut proposal in December 2010. …

In one, the caller was heard calling McDermott “a piece of human filth,” “a communist,” and a “piece of (expletive) garbage.”

“Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, if any of them had ever met uh, uh Jim McDermott, they would all blow his brains out,” Habermann said in the first rambling message, according to charging documents. “They’d shoot him, in the head. They’d kill him, because he’s a piece of, of, of disgusting garbage. …

“Any you let that (expletive) scum bag know, that if he ever (expletive) with my money, ever the (expletive) again, I’ll (expletive) kill him, okay,” Habermann continued, according to charges. “I’ll round them up, I’ll kill them, I’ll kill his friends, I’ll kill his family, I will kill everybody he (expletive) knows.”

This isn’t the first time Habermann has been in trouble for threatening politicians, either.

Federal prosecutors contend Habermann was investigated in March after making similar threats against a member of the California State Assembly.

In that instance, Habermann was escorted from the assembly member’s office.

“During the meeting Habermann began ranting about the current federal health care bill and how Habermann was ‘very well off’ and did not want to support immigrants and Latinos,” Giboney told the court. “Habermann was described as agitated, paranoid, uneasy and couldn’t keep still.”

Sure, all that sounds like it came straight out of a Tea Party demonstration. But hey — maybe he once read “The Communist Manifesto?”

Jump to bottom

75 comments
1 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:26:21am

This guy has a three million dollar trust fund. He didn't earn his money. He's ranting about being able to keep money he didn't lift a finger to earn, and threatening to kill people over it.

What a douche.

2 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:27:38am

A librul plant for sure to discredit the true amuricuns of the T-partay

/

3 mikefromArlington  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:30:21am

There was a guy on tweeties show either last night or the night before linking three attempted politically driven murders to Glen Beck.

Surprised they haven't caught on more. I don't give a crap if Beck wants to peddle his psychotic ramblings but if they are driving people to try and commit murder, there's a problem.

4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:30:36am

Oh, he didn't mean nuthin'!
/

5 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:30:55am

There's the three names again: Charles Turner Habermann. And he has a 3 million dollar trust fund?

6 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:31:15am

I'm kinda shocked Palm Springs even has a right wing nut. Gay friendly resort towns are not exactly hotbeds of conservative anything. Kudos for the arrest. The more these guys get busted the less likely we'll have another shooting or violent incident.

7 HAL2010  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:31:39am

Sounds like a pinko-commie to me!


//

8 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:31:42am
Habermann was ‘very well off’ and did not want to support immigrants and Latinos,


Tea Party!

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:31:47am

re: #5 Gus 802

I have four names (counting Jr.)

I got a rock.
-Charlie Brown

10 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:32:23am
I wonder how the wingnuts will try to explain this one away.

Yet another random loony, disconnected from any influences or messages outside of his own head. More proof that John Donne was not an acute observer of human behavior, but just making things up with the whole "no man is an island" thing.

11 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:32:48am

re: #1 Obdicut

I'd bet this guy is one of those "nightmare neighbors".

12 Tumulus11  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:34:36am
'Habermann was described as agitated, paranoid, uneasy and couldn't keep still.'

Habermann then left threatening messages on an office voice mail, according to charging documents.

Contacted by the California Highway Patrol, Habermann said he was high on medical marijuana and apologized for the threatening voice mails, according to charging documents. He was issued a warning.'

. The weed made him violent. //

13 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:35:35am

re: #12 Tumulus11

. The weed made him violent. //

No comment.

14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:35:55am

re: #12 Tumulus11

That's a first.

15 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:36:23am

re: #14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's a first.

Sure is.

/

16 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:36:44am

re: #12 Tumulus11

. The weed made him violent. //

He was high on something else you can't get with a prescription.

17 bluecheese  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:37:04am

I was curious what kind of punishment gets handed to folks that exhibit this kind of behavior....

This is c/p from the link in the OP;

The charges come less than a year after Durkan's office filed charges against a Selah man accused of leaving threatening messages at the office of U.S. Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash. The man accused in that case, 64-year-old Charles Wilson, was sentenced to one year in federal prison and remains at the Federal Detention Center at SeaTac.

In sentencing Wilson, U.S. District Court Judge John C. Coughenour described the Eastern Washington man's actions as terrorism and Wilson, by extension, as a terrorist.

snip...

U.S. Magistrate Judge David Bristow set Habermann's bail at $300,000 and ordered he be placed on home detention if released, according to The Associated Press. He is expected to appear before a federal judge in Washington on Jan. 25.

Facing a maximum term of 10 years in prison, Habermann could be released from federal detention as early as Thursday.

Anybody know what 10 year max translates to in reality?

18 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:37:22am

REEFER MADNESS!

19 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:37:30am

re: #15 Gus 802

Some people can get violent on weed. It's very, very rare, though. It's a lot more common with, say, alcohol.

I don't think I'm going to be giving this guy benefit of the doubt anytime soon.

20 S'latch  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:37:37am

Maybe he was smoking tea party leaves.

21 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:38:25am

Here's the FBI press release:

Palm Springs Resident Arrested for Making Death Threats Against Washington Congressman Jim McDermott
Defendant Left Expletive-Laden, Threatening Voice Mail Messages Following Tax Cut Debate

CHARLES TURNER HABERMANN, 32, of Palm Springs, California, was arrested by the FBI this morning after being charged by federal criminal complaint with threatening a federal official. HABERMANN is alleged to have made two expletive-laden, threatening phone calls to the Seattle office of Congressman Jim McDermott on December 9, 2010. In the first call recorded on the office answering system, HABERMANN threatens to kill Congressman McDermott, his friends and family. In the second call HABERMANN says he will hire someone to put Congressman McDermott “in the trash.” HABERMANN was interviewed by the FBI on December 10, 2010, regarding the calls to Congressman McDermott, and another threatening call made to a California congresswoman. HABERMANN is expected to make his initial appearance today on the 3:00 p.m. calendar in federal court in Riverside, California.

“We are blessed to live in a country that guarantees and protects the freedom to disagree with our government and speak our minds. That protection, however, does not extend to threats or acts of violence. Those actions are intended to silence debate, not further it. They instill fear not just in the immediate victims, but in many who might hold the same views or take the same course. Such threats are crimes, and the individuals who make them must be held accountable,” said U.S. Attorney Jenny A. Durkan.

In the voice mail messages, HABERMANN stated he had seen Congressman McDermott on television. In the messages, he disparages and threatens Congressman McDermott and other Democrats for their views on tax cuts and unemployment insurance. On the voice mail messages, HABERMANN threatens to kill Congressman McDermott in an effort to impede, intimidate, and interfere with his vote on the tax cut proposal in December 2010.

HABERMANN was investigated in March 2010, for similar conduct involving threats to a California assembly person. In that instance, HABERMANN went to the assembly person’s office to discuss the health care bill and was escorted out. Following the office meeting, HABERMANN left two threatening voice mail messages. HABERMANN was interviewed by the California Highway Patrol, and was issued a warning about his threatening conduct.

Threatening a federal official is punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

The charges contained in the complaint are only allegations. A person is presumed innocent unless and until he or she is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

The case is being investigated by the FBI. The case is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Mike Dion.

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:38:28am

Wait a minute. Is it possible that medical marijuana is laced with anger inciting drus created by the CIA to bring down the "middle white insured able to afford private insurance" America?

23 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:39:21am

3 million bucks buys a lot stuff at the prison commissary.

24 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:41:18am

It is very rare that the "I didn't mean nuthin' by it, was just funnin'" legal gambit works.

About as effective as "I forgot that murder was against the law" defense.
(hat tip to Steve Martin)

25 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:42:06am

re: #23 Amory Blaine

3 million bucks buys a lot stuff at the prison commissary.

If he were smart, he'd spend some of it on cartons of cigarettes, because I don't think the inmates will give a fuck who he is, or how much money he has on the outside.

26 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:44:34am

re: #1 Obdicut

He didn't earn his money. He's ranting about being able to keep money he didn't lift a finger to earn, and threatening to kill people over it.

He sounds like some of my relatives, except without the threats of violence and murder. They're well off due to my uncle being a trust fund baby, and they're about as Republican as it gets. My aunt tried foisting Heritage Foundation calendars on me last year because they had a ton of them to give away, and they're your typical Fox News types-- "conservative", don't trust Muslims or immigrants, don't want to pay for anything, but feel entitled to everything, etc.

I gave up arguing politics with them years ago. It's not worth it.

27 gamark  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:44:46am

re: #17 bluecheese

Anybody know what 10 year max translates to in reality?

I think you have to serve pretty close to the full amount of the sentence for Federal convictions.
There is some wiggle room for good behavior and such, but not like in most states.

28 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:45:25am

Damn double posts. Sorry about that!

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:47:06am

re: #28 Lidane

I think it is only appearing in your mind. I don't see it.

30 JeffM70  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:47:08am

It always amuses me when Tea Partiers try to support their cause by citing Alexander Hamilton. Anybody who has ever read Federalist Paper #1 would realize that if any Founding Father would be horrified by the Tea Party it would be Alexander Hamilton.

31 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:47:25am

re: #17 bluecheese

Just guessing-Much longer today than last week.
I found this link, but I have no time to drill down to this crime in particular.
I'm work-lurking.

32 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:48:21am

re: #19 Obdicut

I saw something about schizophrenics having a real problem with cannabis. Was that the syndrome?

33 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:49:38am

re: #30 JeffM70

It always amuses me when Tea Partiers try to support their cause by citing Alexander Hamilton. Anybody who has ever read Federalist Paper #1 would realize that if any Founding Father would be horrified by the Tea Party it would be Alexander Hamilton.


Excellent point and the reverse is true, Hamilton's view of government's role would make current President Obama look like Reagan.

34 Alexzander  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:50:47am

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

I saw something about schizophrenics having a real problem with cannabis. Was that the syndrome?

I believe it can be a triggering event for people with anxiety and dissociative disorders.

35 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:51:30am
“Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, if any of them had ever met uh, uh Jim McDermott, they would all blow his brains out,” Habermann said in the first rambling message, according to charging documents. “They’d shoot him, in the head. They’d kill him, because he’s a piece of, of, of disgusting garbage. …

Demonstrative proof that you can invoke the Founding Fathers for anything.

Extremism always reeks of bullshit. It's almost like bullshitting and extremism are intrinsically linked.

36 Alexzander  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:51:32am

If this guy really wants to coast on that 3 million fund, its in his best interest to maintain social services that preserve civil and stable society. What a dumb ass.

37 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:51:53am

re: #30 JeffM70

It always amuses me when Tea Partiers try to support their cause by citing Alexander Hamilton. Anybody who has ever read Federalist Paper #1 would realize that if any Founding Father would be horrified by the Tea Party it would be Alexander Hamilton.

You mean like this:

A new U.S. federal government began operating in 1789, following the ratification of the United States Constitution. The previous government under the Articles of Confederation had been unable to levy taxes; it had borrowed money to meet expenses, accumulating $54 million in debt. The states had amassed an additional $25 million in debt. Alexander Hamilton, the first Secretary of the Treasury, sought to use this debt to create a financial system that would promote American prosperity and national unity. In his Report on Public Credit, he urged Congress to consolidate the state and national debts into a single debt that would be funded by the federal government. Congress approved these measures in June and July of 1790.

38 Idle Drifter  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:52:09am

re: #30 JeffM70

It always amuses me when Tea Partiers try to support their cause by citing Alexander Hamilton. Anybody who has ever read Federalist Paper #1 would realize that if any Founding Father would be horrified by the Tea Party it would be Alexander Hamilton.

Far too often the nuts would assume that certain people of history would be on their side of an argument without actually reading and understanding what these people put to print.

39 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:53:40am

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

It's kind of overblown.

Some studies suggest that some schitzophrenics will develop schitzophrenia faster when smoking pot.

A few studies have found that those who smoke marijuana in their teens run a higher risk of developing schitzophrenia. These studies are problematic because:

A) Use of marijuana in teen years is linked to a bunch of other risk factors as well.

B) Marijuana may have pesticides

C) It's hard to get accurate numbers on real drug use-- one of the studies was of people in the army, who are really unlikely to give honest answers about past drug use.

40 JeffM70  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:53:47am

re: #37 Gus 802

And this:

An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty. An over-scrupulous jealousy of danger to the rights of the people, which is more commonly the fault of the head than of the heart, will be represented as mere pretense and artifice, the stale bait for popularity at the expense of the public good. It will be forgotten, on the one hand, that jealousy is the usual concomitant of love, and that the noble enthusiasm of liberty is apt to be infected with a spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust. On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.

41 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:54:12am

OT but as a sufferer (yes, old, bald, Big Steve damaged his ears playing in a rock band of absolutely no repute in the 1970's) good news regarding tinnitus....Findings Show Promise in Battle Against Tinnitus

42 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:54:20am

re: #37 Gus 802

You mean like this:

Or this:

Frustrated with the weakness of the central government, Hamilton drafted a call to revise the Articles of Confederation while in Princeton. This resolution contained many features of the future U.S. Constitution, including a strong federal government with the ability to collect taxes and raise an army. It also included the separation of powers into the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches.

43 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:54:33am

Garble garble garble...states rights...grable garble gerble...federalist papers....garble garble..

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:54:40am

re: #36 Alexzander

If this guy really wants to coast on that 3 million fund, its in his best interest to maintain social services that preserve civil and stable society. What a dumb ass.

If this guy really wanted to coast on that 3 million fund, he would have stuck to legal means of political influence, rather than threatening to kill people over his taxes.

45 mr.fusion  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:54:51am

re: #30 JeffM70

It always amuses me when Tea Partiers try to support their cause by citing Alexander Hamilton. Anybody who has ever read Federalist Paper #1 would realize that if any Founding Father would be horrified by the Tea Party it would be Alexander Hamilton.

It's like that with nearly every founding father.....think Ben Franklin, John Adams, or Thomas Jefferson would approve of this nonsense?

To put it a simpler way.....I was listening to a local "tea party" radio show the other day.....host actually said "the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves if they knew our government was being run by academics and lawyers." Seriously. That's what he said......and that's what the Tea Party believes.

And not to go off on too much of a tangent here, but I DESPISE the way these nincompoops have hijacked the imagery and mythology of our founding to suit their own purposes. It seriously drives me crazy. I can remember when Ford came out with that George Washington commercial.....first aired during the US vs England match in the World Cup (which I believe was on the 4th of July). The headline about the commercial on HotAir? "The First Tea Party Commercial" -- just infuriated me. Where the hell do they get off laying claim to our founding?

46 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:54:56am

re: #30 JeffM70

The Federalist Papers in general spoke to the power of a strong central government and limited state government. Ultimately, the Constitution and Bill of Rights was a product of combining some of the best elements and political thought from both the Federalists (Madison, Hamilton, Jay) and the Anti-Federalists. Particularly, it's the Anti-Federalists that helped bring about the Bill of Rights as a protection of individual rights.

47 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:55:24am

re: #35 000G

Demonstrative proof that you can invoke the Founding Fathers for anything.

sort of the anti-hitler affect

48 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:55:34am

re: #17 bluecheese

I was curious what kind of punishment gets handed to folks that exhibit this kind of behavior...

This is c/p from the link in the OP;

snip...

Anybody know what 10 year max translates to in reality?

In the federal system there is no early release. If you get sentenced to 10 years, you will sit for 10 years - only exceptions would be a successful appeal or a pardon from the President. This is one of the reasons that many Federal judges are against the manditory minimum sentence laws (eg rock coke vs powder coke) that Congress has passed.

49 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:56:33am

I think he probably means Alexander Hamilton: the Glenn Beck version.

50 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:57:01am

Mostly OT, but I have to share this:

Image: 350px-Philosoraptor_toast.jpg

51 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:57:10am

re: #46 lawhawk

The Federalist Papers in general spoke to the power of a strong central government and limited state government. Ultimately, the Constitution and Bill of Rights was a product of combining some of the best elements and political thought from both the Federalists (Madison, Hamilton, Jay) and the Anti-Federalists. Particularly, it's the Anti-Federalists that helped bring about the Bill of Rights as a protection of individual rights.

Imagine. Two competing entities working together creating a great document for governing...

52 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:00:52am

But does he own a tricorne hat?

/

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:00:56am

re: #49 Gus 802

I think he probably means Alexander Hamilton: the Glenn Beck version.

The problem is that the movement has convinced itself that by following their own twenty-first-century ideologies and cultural preferences, they are somehow only reverting to the original American factory settings--which were, of course, set by the Founders, so the Founders would think everything the Tea Partiers think.

This isn't what you would call accurate, but they don't seem to want to deal with that.

54 mr.fusion  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:01:36am

re: #51 Amory Blaine

Imagine. Two competing entities working together creating a great document for governing...

You mean Socialism

55 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:03:52am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that the movement has convinced itself that by following their own twenty-first-century ideologies and cultural preferences, they are somehow only reverting to the original American factory settings--which were, of course, set by the Founders, so the Founders would think everything the Tea Partiers think.

This isn't what you would call accurate, but they don't seem to want to deal with that.


Great point......my guess is that had they existed back then, current Tea Party advocates would have been more philosophically kin to Tories.

Also SFV....love the term "original American factory settings"

56 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:04:35am

re: #47 Big Steve

sort of the anti-hitler affect

Reverse Godwin: "As a political discussion grows longer, the probability of defending one's own bullshit with an assertion that the Founding Father would've done or thought the same approaches 1".

57 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:05:07am

He was being an American patriot...just like all those other white Christian republican patriots because of course any other demographic is pure evil.

58 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:06:17am

re: #56 000G

Reverse Godwin: "As a political discussion grows longer, the probability of defending one's own bullshit with an assertion that the Founding Father would've done or thought the same approaches 1".


Perfect.....lets call it the "LGF Rule"

59 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:07:03am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that the movement has convinced itself that by following their own twenty-first-century ideologies and cultural preferences, they are somehow only reverting to the original American factory settings--which were, of course, set by the Founders, so the Founders would think everything the Tea Partiers think.

This isn't what you would call accurate, but they don't seem to want to deal with that.

Argumentum ad founding fatherum.

//A fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because one purports to make those arguments from the alleged views of the founding fathers.

//

60 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:08:10am

My other favorite is the argumentum ad tricorne hat.

/

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:09:54am

re: #55 Big Steve

Great point...my guess is that had they existed back then, current Tea Party advocates would have been more philosophically kin to Tories.

Also SFV...love the term "original American factory settings"

It's hard to identify them, I think, 'back then'. Too much social context has changed. The Tories were actually socially conservative, and inclined to seek change through incremental and traditional means, which the current crop of right-wing radicals certainly are not, but the sense of identification with a core culture and rejection of modern change might be similar.

But it's such a different world. For all of us.

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:11:08am

re: #60 Gus 802

My other favorite is the argumentum ad tricorne hat.

/

"It is argued by a man wearing a tricorn hat, and therefore it is true."

That the principal in question?

63 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:12:10am

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

"It is argued by a man wearing a tricorn hat, and therefore it is true."

That the principal in question?

Yep. "He wears a tricorne hat. Therefore he must be correct."

/

64 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:20:51am

re: #39 Obdicut

Thanks. Not surprised at the overblown thing.

65 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:22:46am

re: #64 Rightwingconspirator

I do encourage anyone who, ah, partakes in marijuana to avoid smoking it if possible-- put it in butter or use a vaporizer. And if you needs must smoke, source it well, to a hydroponic operation with no pesticides.

66 Kewalo  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 12:20:05pm

I was a constituent of Jim McDermott for a few years. I am very liberal and so is he. I'm actually surprised he hasn't had death threats before. He actually seems to care about his constituents and has been re-elected by a large margin. Plus, he seems to be a prankster, but one with balls.

I think he's really a good guy and I hope this idiot that threatened him gets the max.

Just thought I would add a few thoughts about the recipient of the death threat. As you can probably tell I really like the guy and would be crushed if one of our homegrown terrorists hurt him.

67 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 12:36:53pm

Atlas Shrugged is one of my favorite books. I guess that makes me a conservative. It's one of my favorite comedies.

68 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 12:41:08pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

Howard Roarke stood naked on the edge of a cliff and bounced up and down gently.

69 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 12:43:51pm
Sure, all that sounds like it came straight out of a Tea Party demonstration. But hey — maybe he once read “The Communist Manifesto?”


His heroes are all from the same side of the aisle. Not that he understands anything about what those men were really like.

This guy is an entirely different case from Loughner. He has a coherent world view. Wrong, and evil, but coherent. The word "paranoid", like the phrase "blood libel", has gone into the English language in its metaphorical sense. But the way "paranoid" is used in the report isn't as a diagnosis. The other meaning seems to be intended: full of suspicion, vengeful, angry.

A much better case can be made on this set of facts that TP rhetoric may have influenced his thinking. Because he has "thinking", and it proceeds from the fringe of TP talk and goes the rest of the way off the deep end.

This is exactly the kind of thing that the other case was not: a case in point for why hot, angry words over the radio, and not some imaginary radio playing in a brain that's making its own stuff up, can prompt people of legally `sound mind' to criminal acts.

70 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 12:46:03pm

re: #69 lostlakehiker

The word "paranoid", like the phrase "blood libel", has gone into the English language in its metaphorical sense.

Why do you have shoehorn that in there like a jerk?

71 Batman  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 1:25:04pm

Lol I was going to post that the most egregious thing about this article is that the nut lumped Hamilton with Jefferson and Madison, because, you know, all Founding Fathers believed the same thing, but y'all beat me to it.

72 steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:50:04pm

It was Jimmy Carters fault for closing the majority of the mental hospitals.

73 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:53:30pm

re: #72 steve

Jimmy Carter closed hospitals and provided funds and a mechanism for outpatient treatment-- which was then cut by Reagan.

74 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:00:44pm

re: #26 Lidane

He sounds like some of my relatives, except without the threats of violence and murder. They're well off due to my uncle being a trust fund baby, and they're about as Republican as it gets. My aunt tried foisting Heritage Foundation calendars on me last year because they had a ton of them to give away, and they're your typical Fox News types-- "conservative", don't trust Muslims or immigrants, don't want to pay for anything, but feel entitled to everything, etc.

I gave up arguing politics with them years ago. It's not worth it.

If the calendars are nice, take them--as calendars.

re: #27 gamark

I think you have to serve pretty close to the full amount of the sentence for Federal convictions.
There is some wiggle room for good behavior and such, but not like in most states.

That's how I understand it, too. If you're sentenced to ten years, you're probably going to do 8.5-plus at the minimum.

You have to work pretty hard to get "the Feds" mad at you, but if you insist, they'll make your life very difficult.

75 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:11:04pm

re: #72 steve

It was Jimmy Carters fault for closing the majority of the mental hospitals.

Huh?

As much as I loathe Jimmy Carter, that's something I wouldn't attribute to him. A lot of people contributed to the decline of residential mental hospitals. some well-meaning liberals who thought that the mentally ill would be better off "mainstreamed", some penny-pinchers who wanted to save money and who believed that the mentally ill would just fade away, some in between. I don't blame any one person for the mess it became, and certainly not President Carter.

Of course, if you have some evidence, please present it. I'd be happy to blame him for one more thing.


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