Politifact Calls Out Michelle Malkin for Dishonest Anti-Obama Smear

Wingnuts • Views: 39,232

Wingnut queen bee Michelle Malkin gets a nice big FALSE rating from politifact.com for doing what she’s done so many times before — concocting an outrageous outrage out of thin air. And this might be the cheapest and ugliest one yet. Malkin tried to claim that the White House orchestrated a “branded” political event out of the Arizona mass murder: Did the White House ‘brand’ the Arizona memorial service with a logo and slogan?

The University of Arizona memorial service for the victims of the Tucson, Ariz. shootings was called “Together We Thrive.” But Michele Malkin claimed the slogan was cooked up by the White House

In an opinion piece about the Jan. 12, 2011, memorial event, Malkin, a conservative pundit, accused the White House of “branding” the memorial service with the slogan, complete with its own logo. Malkin noted that all 13,000 people who attended the “Together We Thrive” event were given blue and white T-shirts with the logo.

“Can’t the Democrat political stage managers give it a break just once?” Malkin wrote in her column. …

But officials at the University of Arizona said the White House had nothing to do with the name or the logo.

“The name of the event and the logo for the event were done entirely by the university,” said Johnny Cruz, a spokesman for the University of Arizona. “Branding of the event was not done in consultation with the White House, or any elected officials or political organization.”

The T-shirts were also the university’s doing, Cruz said. “That was the university’s idea,” he said. “We wanted to give people something to remember, to symbolize the community spirit.” …

And “Together We Thrive” was conceived by a University of Arizona student, he said.

But to Malkin, of course, this is evidence of a conspiracy between the White House and the University of Arizona… and that’s what they would say, isn’t it, those commies?

Update: As noted above, the University of Arizona announced the Together We Thrive event — and a few readers write in to say that the campus initiated the logo/campaign. Given U of A president Robert Shelton’s embarrassing, thinly-veiled partisan cheerleading for Obama tonight, it may indeed be a 100 percent-campus-initiated campaign. Given the Obama White House’s meticulous attention to stage prop details, however, I would say the odds of involvement by Axelrod/Plouffe & Co. are high.

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425 comments
1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:52:36pm

It was a conspiracy and even if it wasn’t it was terrible because someone likes Obama.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:53:54pm

Um, here’s the question:

And if it had been cooked up by the White House?

Would giving people some way to feel they were coming together be such a terrible thing?

3 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:54:42pm
“Together We Thrive”


Socialism!

4 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:54:57pm

There is simply no reasoning with the likes of Malkin. Once they’ve decided Evil Obama has done something bad, they refuse to let it go.

Even if he didn’t do it, he did it.

5 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:57:16pm

These idiots don’t even care any more about their own credibility. They’re so crazed they just vomit out the first hateful thing that pops into their heads, without fact-checking anything at all. And Malkin is far from the only right wing blogger who doesn’t give a shit.

6 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:57:24pm

I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:58:06pm

As I was saying.

8 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:59:37pm

Was that aimed at me Charles?

9 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:59:49pm

re: #6 Steve

rather crass and crude


Like a political critique of a memorial service.

10 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 6:59:58pm

Evidence disproving a conspiracy merely proves how dangerous the conspiracy really is.

Paranoia is a very comforting statemind. It means someone thinks you’re important.

11 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:00:05pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Timing is everything.

12 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:00:07pm

Think Fabricate a conspiracy first ask questions later and don’t ask any questions.

13 Tigger2  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:00:30pm

re: #6 Steve

I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.


You trying out for Malkin’s job there Steve.

14 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:00:49pm

re: #6 Steve

No. They were not crass at all. You do not understand Tucson people at all.

15 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:00:53pm

re: #6 Steve

Community Organizer In Chief is a really stupid attempt at a slam, especially after the speech he gave where he very much was trying to organize the US into a civil, decent community.

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:01:02pm

Yesterday, Hot Air’s open thread text already had a bit on this. IIRC, it was something along the lines of “The White House may not have done it, but hey, it’s OK now to blame politicians for stuff they didn’t do.”

17 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:01:17pm

re: #9 jaunte

Like a political critique of a memorial service.

Only when they make it political!

18 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:01:23pm

re: #5 Charles

These idiots don’t even care any more about their own credibility. They’re so crazed they just vomit out the first hateful thing that pops into their heads, without fact-checking anything at all. And Malkin is far from the only right wing blogger who doesn’t give a shit.

Because they know their audience well. Blinded by hatred, fuck facts.

19 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:01:41pm

re: #6 Steve

I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.

Do you see no benefits to the community from it?

If there is anything good that can come from this tragedy, it would be the hope that it is not all in for nothing.

20 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:02:12pm

re: #17 Steve

I don’t think you’ve made a case, just an assertion.

21 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:02:26pm

re: #17 Steve

Only when they make it political!

And how did ‘they’ do that, exactly?

22 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:02:33pm

re: #15 Obdicut

Community Organizer In Chief is a really stupid attempt at a slam, especially after the speech he gave where he very much was trying to organize the US into a civil, decent community.

The speech was good but the name fits> Like the t-shirts and the”we love you” people there

23 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:02:38pm

re: #20 jaunte

I don’t think you’ve made a case, just an assertion.

What he made perfectly was Charles’ point.

24 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:03:22pm

re: #22 Steve

My point is that the name, which you’re attempting to use as an insult, isn’t one. You fail at being insulting.

25 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:03:31pm

Totally off topic, but I just saw Rachel Maddow go on roll taking about magnetic north drifting and also about the zodiac being all goofed up. Sorry to go so off topic, but it was so cool to see.

26 SilentAlfa  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:04:02pm

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

27 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:04:57pm

re: #6 Steve

I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.

Tucson t-shirt design was an inside job!!11ty

Did you ever find Obama’s birth certificate?

28 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:05:09pm

re: #19 ozbloke

Do you see no benefits to the community from it?

T-shirts ? No! It was a memorial service.

If there is anything good that can come from this tragedy, it would be the hope that it is not all in for nothing.


I hope that something good can come from a memorial service.

29 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:05:28pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

/ So now we know who are the commies!1!

30 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:05:36pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

I’m a community organizer!

I feel so ashamed and inadequate.

31 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:05:49pm

re: #24 Obdicut

My point is that the name, which you’re attempting to use as an insult, isn’t one. You fail at being insulting.

Was not trying to be insulting!

32 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:06:29pm

Yep….they spout on and on about America being the land of opportunity, if you work hard enough you can do anything………then a poor black kid grows up to be president…….and they slam him for where he came from……conservative my ass

33 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:07:18pm

The following is just my opinion:

President Obama wasn’t pushing a piece of legislation. He was calling, basically, for reasonableness (is that a word?) and for the nation to come together.

That’s not really political. This was not a campaign stop. This was not a vote for : _______ speech.

He was trying to help heal a state that had just taken a blow. A show of unity is fine. Nobody was made to put the shirt on.

34 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:07:34pm

re: #31 Steve

Oh geez, at least have the balls to take your stupid stand.

You said this:


I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.

Yes. Yes you were trying to be insulting.

35 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:07:40pm

Even if the white house came up with the idea… what is so objectionable about “together we thrive”

(Recalls how many on the right are Libertians) Oh yeah, that…

36 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:08:13pm

re: #6 Steve

I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.

What was crass about them exactly?

37 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:08:26pm

Well, somehow spending time trying to organize your community to get things done for the people who live there, as a group, is a bad thing to wingers. I guess it sounds like communism to them? I just don’t get it.

It’s like saying “blood-donater-in-chief”, or “philanthropist-in-chief”, and expecting it to be insulting.

It’s only an insult to people ideologically committed to being totally irredeemable assholes.

38 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:09:00pm

re: #28 Steve

I hope that something good can come from a memorial service.

Excellent, can you appreciate the motivation of the university to encourage this?

Do you think that in the future people will see others wearing the t-shirts, and will be reminded of how wonderful and hopeful that memorial was.
Perhaps the faces will meet and a tip of a hat given.

I see it as a good thing, and I think President Obama did the victims, their families, the people of Arizona, and the USA proud.

I’m thousands of miles away, but I was moved.

39 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:09:31pm

Oh goodie we’re going to get Targets up here now. I’m so excited.


Not really but it’s BIG news on the news channels right now.

40 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:09:31pm

Come to think of it. I watched the memorial entirely from the White House feed at Whitehouse dot gov. Not once did I see any of the t-shirts. Not once.

41 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:10:16pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

Pontius Pilate was a Governor, Jesus was a community Organizer.

42 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:10:28pm

whore: #23 Fozzie Bear

What he made perfectly was Charles’ point.

That is a little suspicious…he is probably one of C.J’s socks.
///

43 AlexRogan  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:10:48pm

re: #8 Steve

Was that aimed at me Charles?

If Charles wasn’t saying it, I will…that comment of yours was low-rent and low-class.

44 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:10:49pm

re: #40 Gus 802

Never noticed the shirts either……apparently Obama sucks at being politically crass just as much as he sucks at being a dictator/

45 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:11:31pm

re: #27 Gus 802

Tucson t-shirt design was an inside job!!11ty

Did you ever find Obama’s birth certificate?

I do not know who created the t-shirts just that it was crass and crude to do it at a memorial service. I did not say that Obama did it only that it sounds like something he might have done.

As for the birth certificate….who gives a sh*t about it. I sure don’t. Several of my friends have them and none of them were born in Hawaii.

46 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:11:31pm

re: #44 dmon

Never noticed the shirts either…apparently Obama sucks at being politically crass just as much as he sucks at being a dictator/

Barack Obama. World’s worst Stalin impersonator.

//

47 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:11:36pm

I have to say I find T-shirts for a memorial service a little odd. I find cheering and applause at a memorial service odd. But then, I find applause at a wedding to be odd… It just means I’m on the older side of things. Memorial T-shirts for individuals have been around for at least several years, and I suppose when you are in an arena there are only limited ways of showing appreciation/agreement.

People who carry on about the evil of well intentioned people’s utterly harmless efforts to deal with tragedy, are nuts.

48 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:11:37pm

re: #27 Gus 802

Tucson t-shirt design was an inside job!!11ty

Did you ever find Obama’s birth certificate?

Actually, I heard Chavez was behind the t-shirt thing. He and Obama have secret meetings. Don’t you know anything??!!!

49 AlexRogan  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:11:41pm

re: #17 Steve

As I was saying, low-rent and low-class…

50 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:12:58pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

No, no, no.

Real Americans (t) do not band together to help each other - that is communism.

Real American Moms and dads stand around on street corners outside strip malls to ensure their (and other parents) kids are safe while selling girl scout cookies to raise funds to help…..um……events…..in the …errr…..comm…..local area, (yeah, that’s it)

51 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:13:08pm

re: #48 marjoriemoon

Actually, I heard Chavez was behind the t-shirt thing. He and Obama have secret meetings. Don’t you know anything??!!!

I heard Castro contributed some money for the printing too.

52 SilentAlfa  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:13:13pm

re: #41 jamesfirecat

Jesus was a community Organizer.

lol what a scrub

he shouldnt have been messiah he didnt have enough executive experience

53 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:13:19pm

I see Michelle Malkin is still a regular contributor the the White Nationalist sire VDARE.

54 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:13:20pm

re: #35 jamesfirecat

Even if the white house came up with the idea… what is so objectionable about “together we thrive”

(Recalls how many on the right are Libertians) Oh yeah, that…

Nothing is wrong with the slogan! Just does no belong at a memorial service. IMO

55 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:13:49pm

re: #45 Steve

I do not know who created the t-shirts just that it was crass and crude to do it at a memorial service. I did not say that Obama did it only that it sounds like something he might have done.

As for the birth certificate…who gives a sh*t about it. I sure don’t. Several of my friends have them and none of them were born in Hawaii.

OK Thanks for clearing up the birth certificate issue. Clearly though these t-shirts are a sign of iron fist Maoism being dictated by the Obama White House upon the American people.

56 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:14:07pm

re: #49 talon_262

As I was saying, low-rent and low-class…

Yes it was. Thanks for agreeing!

57 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:14:14pm

re: #45 Steve

Do you get that saying “That’s crass and crude, like Obama would have done” is being insulting? Or is that really beyond your comprehension?

58 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:14:35pm

re: #55 Gus 802

OK Thanks for clearing up the birth certificate issue. Clearly though these t-shirts are a sign of iron fist Maoism being dictated by the Obama White House upon the American people.

Huh?

59 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:14:42pm

re: #35 jamesfirecat

Even if the white house came up with the idea… what is so objectionable about “together we thrive”

(Recalls how many on the right are Libertians) Oh yeah, that…

You don’t want too much togetherness. Before ya know it, your daughters are smoking pot and wearing short skirts, dagnabit.

60 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:14:45pm

re: #54 Steve

Well Steve some day when you work yourself up to President of a University you can run the memorial services any way you like

61 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:15:23pm

re: #59 marjoriemoon

You don’t want too much togetherness. Before ya know it, your daughters are smoking pot selling cookies and wearing short green skirts, dagnabit.

62 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:15:30pm

re: #45 Steve

I do not know who created the t-shirts just that it was crass and crude to do it at a memorial service. I did not say that Obama did it only that it sounds like something he might have done.

As for the birth certificate…who gives a sh*t about it. I sure don’t. Several of my friends have them and none of them were born in Hawaii.

Once again, what exactly was crass about them?

63 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:15:57pm

re: #38 ozbloke

Excellent, can you appreciate the motivation of the university to encourage this?

Do you think that in the future people will see others wearing the t-shirts, and will be reminded of how wonderful and hopeful that memorial was.
Perhaps the faces will meet and a tip of a hat given.

I see it as a good thing, and I think President Obama did the victims, their families, the people of Arizona, and the USA proud.

I’m thousands of miles away, but I was moved.

Perfectly stated

and I am only 2 miles south of the border
and 42 miles north of the border
and 10 miles east of the border
…all at the same time

not kidding

64 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:16:17pm

I cant believe I was so crass to buy a few shirts remembering 9/11 a decade ago

65 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:16:19pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

I see Michelle Malkin is still a regular contributor the the White Nationalist sire VDARE.

Natch - she’s a close friend of the president of the “VDARE Foundation,” Peter Brimelow.

66 McSpiff  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:16:29pm

re: #62 jamesfirecat

Once again, what exactly was crass about them?

They weren’t Tea Party.

67 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:16:35pm

re: #54 Steve

Nothing is wrong with the slogan! Just does no belong at a memorial service. IMO

Why doesn’t it belong?

68 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:17:31pm

re: #54 Steve

Nothing is wrong with the slogan! Just does no belong at a memorial service. IMO

A memorial service is not a funeral.

69 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:17:34pm

re: #62 jamesfirecatthem?

It was a memorial service!

70 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:17:55pm

re: #67 jamesfirecat

It doesnt belong because there wasnt anything in any of the speeches given could be slammed……therefore the only left to bitch about was T-shirts

71 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:18:03pm

re: #64 dmon

I cant believe I was so crass to buy a few shirts remembering 9/11 a decade ago

If you haven’t forgotten yet - then the shirts worked.

72 McSpiff  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:18:09pm

re: #69 Steve

them?

It was a memorial service!

I’ve been to memorials with laughing, singing and finger food! Gasp!

73 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:18:09pm

re: #65 Charles

Natch - she’s a close friend of the owner, Peter Brimelow.

He looks like an evil gnome. Something you would see on “Night Gallery.” Special feature: Night of Brimelow.

/

74 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:18:47pm

re: #69 Steve

them?

It was a memorial service!

Not a funeral, not that people shouldn’t be able to dress any damn way they see fit at a funeral as long as it fitted the mood (etc).

75 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:19:02pm

re: #72 McSpiff

I’ve been to memorials with laughing, singing and finger food! Gasp!

I went to one where they gave out colorful scarves.

76 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:02pm

re: #67 jamesfirecat

Why doesn’t it belong?

Remembering those who died, those who were injured and those who placed themselves in harms way to protect others or those who stopped the nut.

77 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:02pm

I went to one where we broke at bottles at the cemetary….. and believe me….ole Bob would have heartily approved

78 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:10pm

re: #72 McSpiff

I’ve been to memorials with laughing, singing and finger food! Gasp!

True that.

I only go for the food - i plan to elope from my own memorial service though.

79 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:12pm

re: #68 wozzablog

A memorial service is not a funeral.

The difference between a memorial service and a funeral is just the absence or presence of the “honoree”. They are generally equally solemn occasions. Traditionally, one wouldn’t wear a T-shirt to the event. Customs change.

80 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:12pm

re: #62 jamesfirecat

The ‘letfreedomringblog’, freerepublic and some other people (who are coincidentally in the political opposition) share the negative opinion on t-shirts.
Shocka.

81 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:17pm

re: #65 Charles

Ewww. That’s a nasty one.

82 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:29pm

re: #69 Steve

them?

It was a memorial service!

So its wrong to send a positive message about how people can come together to over come any difficulty in the midst of a great moment of difficutly and sadness?

83 Tigger2  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:49pm

re: #69 Steve

them?

It was a memorial service!


And they will be continued to memorialised and remembered every time someone wears one of those t shirts or sees one.

84 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:20:56pm

My extended family is about half Irish. Our “somber occasions” aren’t very somber. Some people prefer to mourn death by celebrating the life that has passed, and there’s not a damn thing wrong with it.

85 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:06pm

I think I’m going to put in my will that I want t-shirts given out at my service.
Everyone can use a new t-shirt.

Have to think what I want put on them though.

86 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:12pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

I see Michelle Malkin is still a regular contributor the the White Nationalist sire VDARE.

That is the very definition of ‘useful idiot,’ IMO.

87 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:12pm

re: #76 Steve

Remembering those who died, those who were injured and those who placed themselves in harms way to protect others or those who stopped the nut.

Why yes, its almost like all those people came TOGETHER to help others THRIVE through their sacrifice.

88 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:12pm

re: #58 Steve

Huh?

Here’s an idea. Why don’t you save your outrage for what Jared Loughner did. Why don’t you think about the victims both the living and the dead instead of worrying about some t-shirts that were handed out by the University of Arizona.

89 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:12pm

re: #72 McSpiff

I’ve been to memorials with laughing, singing and finger food! Gasp!

So have I.

90 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:17pm

Form is more important that feeling when it’s the other guy’s form.

91 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:35pm

Arrggghhh. This is how this bullshit makes it to the mainstream. These wingnuts concoct these bullshit theories and the press runs with them like words from on high.

Some conservative commentators question atmosphere of Tucson memorial service

Some wingnut somewhere says something and it’s picked up by Associated Press. Michelle Malkin given credibility on a lie by printing it in the paper.

92 AlexRogan  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:46pm

re: #56 Steve

Yes it was. Thanks for agreeing!

I wasn’t talking about President Obama or the people at the memorial…

/read between the lines

93 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:21:52pm

re: #85 Jadespring

I think I’m going to put in my will that I want t-shirts given out at my service.
Everyone can use a new t-shirt.

Have to think what I want put on them though.

“I told you I wasn’t feeling well!”

94 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:22:11pm

re: #61 EmmmieG

lol Not a fan of the scouts, I see?

95 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:22:57pm

re: #93 jaunte

“I told you I wasn’t feeling well!”

LOL!

96 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:23:07pm

re: #94 marjoriemoon

lol Not a fan of the scouts, I see?

I love the cookies, I mean the girls. I probably should have referred back to the comment up there about girl scouts being community organizing.

97 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:23:54pm

I will be bac,k the twins need their diapers changed. Sorry

98 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:24:01pm

re: #70 dmon

It doesnt belong because there wasnt anything in any of the speeches given could be slammed…therefore the only left to bitch about was T-shirts

When bad things happen to good sentences :)

99 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:24:09pm

re: #69 Steve

them?

It was a memorial service!

Do you think it shocked the fine folks in New Orleans?

Youtube Video
100 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:24:15pm

re: #79 calochortus

The difference between a memorial service and a funeral is just the absence or presence of the “honoree”. They are generally equally solemn occasions. Traditionally, one wouldn’t wear a T-shirt to the event. Customs change.

Traditions are there to be broken with.

If the community felt the need to show such a groundswell of positive emotion and relay that message visually - good luck to them.

101 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:24:48pm

re: #98 marjoriemoon

I know…..my typing sucks….but other than that….im a pretty good guy

102 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:24:50pm

re: #72 McSpiff

I’ve been to memorials with laughing, singing and finger food! Gasp!

I hear some folks even have liquor!

103 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:24:54pm

Okay I’m hungry. I still have some spaghetti left that I made earlier and there is half a plate of brownies on the counter.


I’m torn….

104 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:25:14pm

re: #91 Amory Blaine

Arrggghhh. This is how this bullshit makes it to the mainstream. These wingnuts concoct these bullshit theories and the press runs with them like words from on high.

Some conservative commentators question atmosphere of Tucson memorial service

Some wingnut somewhere says something and it’s picked up by Associated Press. Michelle Malkin given credibility on a lie by printing it in the paper.

The conservatives seem to have decided that everyone at the memorial was a liberal and that was why there was all that unseemly carrying on.

105 Steve  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:25:20pm

re: #88 Gus 802

Here’s an idea. Why don’t you save your outrage for what Jared Loughner did. Why don’t you think about the victims both the living and the dead instead of worrying about some t-shirts that were handed out by the University of Arizona.

Move on and give me another rant.

106 wee fury  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:25:49pm

re: #99 Reginald Perrin

Do you think it shocked the fine folks in New Orleans?


[Video]

Good one.

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:25:59pm

re: #103 Jadespring

Okay I’m hungry. I still have some spaghetti left that I made earlier and there is half a plate of brownies on the counter.


I’m torn…

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

108 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:26:05pm

re: #105 Steve

Move on and give me another rant.

Oh brother. That wasn’t a rant. Forget I said anything.

109 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:26:16pm

re: #85 Jadespring

I think I’m going to put in my will that I want t-shirts given out at my service.
Everyone can use a new t-shirt.

Have to think what I want put on them though.

“I’m here all week”…..

110 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:26:18pm

I hear that liberals like dancing and rock music, too.

111 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:26:26pm

re: #105 Steve

Move on and give me another rant.

Well what is it then spaghetti or brownies?

112 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:26:41pm

[Eye roll]

113 AlexRogan  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:27:49pm

re: #105 Steve

Irony, thy name is Steve…

114 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:28:04pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

I have been a darkside practitioner for sometime. It is always good to meet a fellow traveller. We must swap recipes.

Image: cookie-darkside.jpg

115 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:29:06pm

re: #114 wozzablog

I have been a darkside practitioner for sometime. It is always good to meet a fellow traveller. We must swap recipes.

Image: cookie-darkside.jpg

I no longer make my own cookies. I have minions to do that for me now.

Today it was some sort of buttery dark chocolate cookie.

Now I just need to train the minion to do the dishes when she’s done.

116 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:29:14pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

I see Michelle Malkin is still a regular contributor the the White Nationalist site VDARE.

That makes no sense to me. Isn’t she Filipino? Why on earth would you post at a white nationalist site if you’re a minority?

117 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:29:28pm

re: #101 dmon

I know…my typing sucks…but other than that…im a pretty good guy

I think I saw what you’re saying, but the last time I thought that, she turned out to be a mini-nazi. :p

118 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:30:00pm

re: #116 Lidane

That makes no sense to me. Isn’t she Filipino? Why on earth would you post at a white nationalist site if you’re a minority?

She was also for the internment of Japanese during WW2.

The lady is a barrel of mess.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:30:02pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

I remember seeing an interview with a conservative evangelical lady who was a community organizer somewhere in Appalachia.

She said she was quite annoyed that ‘community organizer’ was becoming a joke.

120 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:30:09pm

re: #96 EmmmieG

I love the cookies, I mean the girls. I probably should have referred back to the comment up there about girl scouts being community organizing.

Ah so sorry… I missed it!

121 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:30:10pm

re: #115 EmmmieG

LOL! Will do dishes for cookies!

122 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:30:44pm

re: #115 EmmmieG

I no longer make my own cookies. I have minions to do that for me now.

Today it was some sort of buttery dark chocolate cookie.

Now I just need to train the minion to do the dishes when she’s done.

Whiskey & Raisin were my last batch. I need to make more choc chip.

I possess no minions. I must acquire some.

123 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:30:54pm

re: #113 talon_262

Irony, thy name is Steve…

I’m afraid that one was so off the scale that the irony meter didn’t merely explode, it instantaneously vaporized.

124 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:31:36pm

re: #122 wozzablog

Whiskey & Raisin were my last batch. I need to make more choc chip.

I possess no minions. I must acquire some.

I got mine the hard way. Maybe your siblings have some you can borrow?

125 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:31:39pm

re: #118 wozzablog

She was also for the internment of Japanese during WW2.

The lady is a barrel of mess.

That was my first encounter with her brand of crazy. I saw her on CNN or Fox doing an interview defending internment. That blew my mind.

126 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:32:24pm

re: #103 Jadespring

Okay I’m hungry. I still have some spaghetti left that I made earlier and there is half a plate of brownies on the counter.

I’m torn…

Heat up the spaghetti and eat that. If you’re still hungry, eat the brownies.

Or, eat the brownies first and then the spaghetti to wash it down (keep it company in your stomach)

127 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:32:26pm

re: #123 Reginald Perrin

I’m afraid that one was so off the scale that the irony meter didn’t merely explode, it instantaneously vaporized.

Oh a sarcasm detector, now there’s a real useful invention!

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:32:27pm

re: #125 Lidane

That was my first encounter with her brand of crazy. I saw her on CNN or Fox doing an interview defending internment. That blew my mind.

Actually, for a Filipino to be anti-Japanese is not that crazy. It’s the history.

129 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:32:43pm

re: #118 wozzablog

She was also for the internment of Japanese during WW2.

The lady is a barrel of mess.

She went on to use the internment of the Japanese during WWII as a model for supporting the internment of American Muslims after 9/11.

130 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:32:52pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

I got mine the hard way. Maybe your siblings have some you can borrow?

Sole sibbling remains resolutely single and childless. Most selfish.

131 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:33:09pm

re: #127 jamesfirecat

Oh a sarcasm detector, now there’s a real useful invention!

Yeah, right.

132 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:33:12pm

Also, Charles— slight typo in the tags. Your last one says “Dishonesy”. Was that intentional?

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:33:17pm

re: #32 dmon

Yep…they spout on and on about America being the land of opportunity, if you work hard enough you can do anything…then a poor black kid grows up to be president…and they slam him for where he came from…conservative my ass

They don’t cast him as a ‘poor kid’. They cast him as an ‘elite’.

134 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:33:40pm

re: #116 Lidane

That makes no sense to me. Isn’t she Filipino? Why on earth would you post at a white nationalist site if you’re a minority?

She’s the female equivalent of Clayton Bigsby.

135 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:33:54pm

re: #130 wozzablog

Sole sibbling remains resolutely single and childless. Most selfish.

I have one of those. She cooks, though.

136 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:34:12pm

re: #128 EmmmieG

Actually, for a Filipino to be anti-Japanese is not that crazy. It’s the history.

Yeah, I know. But favoring internment for anyone, especially in the aftermath of WW2, just strikes me as being completely beyond the pale no matter the history.

137 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:34:25pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

I got mine the hard way. Maybe your siblings have some you can borrow?

My minions have minions. Together we will take over the world.

138 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:34:54pm

I need some minions.

139 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:35:22pm

re: #137 Alouette

My minions have minions. Together we will take over the world.

But I thought that Jews already ruled the world?

//Confused now…

Do they make cookies for Grandma? My boys made some for my mother after she broke her foot.

140 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:35:26pm

re: #138 Jadespring

I need some minions.

Fillet minions?

//

141 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:35:29pm

re: #138 Jadespring

I work for cheap.

142 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:35:47pm

re: #135 EmmmieG

I have one of those. She cooks, though.

I don’t trust mine to. She can burn water.

143 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:35:58pm

re: #134 Fozzie Bear

She’s the female equivalent of Clayton Bigsby.

Except without the robe and hood. =P

144 rurality  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:36:00pm

re: #105 Steve

This wasnt an invitation only, totally screened, manditory dress code, undemocratic kind of rally that the right are used to, but real people, with real feelings are often untidy—scary.

145 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:36:10pm

re: #137 Alouette

My minions have minions. Together we will take over the world.

And their minions have minions. You are well on you way to being the Overlord!

146 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:36:25pm

re: #6 Steve

I personally thought that the t-shirts with the slogan were rather crass and crude and did nothing to honor those who were killed or injured. Sounds like something our Community Organizer in Chief would have done.

If you’ve ever worked with young people, you’d know that they create T-shirts for virtually every ocasion even if they have to use a Sharpie pen. They range from tacky to extremely sophisticated depending on the age and talent level of the student(s) involved.

I have dozens of student designed and printed T-shirts, some of them are in dubious taste, but were well-intended.

Only the “conspiracy” of youth if any at all.

147 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:36:31pm

re: #130 wozzablog

james - eyes off my sister.

148 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:36:32pm

re: #135 EmmmieG

I have one of those. She cooks, though.

Wait, I was unclear. I have one unmarried sibling.

And five married ones and 19 nieces and nephews.

She’s a lovely girl. She cooks.

149 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:36:58pm

re: #141 Amory Blaine

I work for cheap.

Hmm… how cheap?

And how do you feel about igloos?

150 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:38:08pm

re: #148 EmmmieG

Wait, I was unclear. I have one unmarried sibling.

And five married ones and 19 nieces and nephews.

She’s a lovely girl. She cooks.

Gifting at Christmas must suck.

(you can tell i’m not a small people person)

151 Tigger2005  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:38:22pm

re: #56 Steve

Yes it was. Thanks for agreeing!

This is called “quote mining.”

That’s when you take somebody’s words out of context and present them as meaning something very different from what the writer meant to say.

In other words, it’s lying.

Is your conscience at all bothered when you lie?

152 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:38:55pm

re: #138 Jadespring

I used to have some minions but I like gloves better.

153 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:39:18pm

Sliced minions make me cry.

154 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:39:35pm

re: #150 wozzablog

Gifting at Christmas must suck.

(you can tell i’m not a small people person)

We draw names. Otherwise our kids would all be drowning in small toys. Well, more than normally.

It’s loud, though.

155 zora  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:39:54pm

re: #136 Lidane

Yeah, I know. But favoring internment for anyone, especially in the aftermath of WW2, just strikes me as being completely beyond the pale no matter the history.

i think she would have turned her own parents in if she was aware they weren’t citizens when she was a child. the woman is just hateful.

from wiki:

Malkin believes that the custom of granting automatic citizenship at birth to children of tourists and temporary workers, and to “anchor babies[NB 2]” delivered by illegal aliens on American soil, undermines the integrity of citizenship. She argues that the custom of blanket birthright citizenship is supported neither by the Fourteenth Amendment nor by legal precedent
156 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:40:11pm

So, all you people with minions are minionaires?

157 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:40:17pm

re: #136 Lidane

Yeah, I know. But favoring internment for anyone, especially in the aftermath of WW2, just strikes me as being completely beyond the pale no matter the history.

This is America, yes? We’ll continue to be a diverse nation no matter what pretty little racists think.

158 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:40:20pm

re: #154 EmmmieG

We draw names. Otherwise our kids would all be drowning in small toys. Well, more than normally.

It’s loud, though.

Last time we had the extended mob over i locked myself in the kitchen with a bottle of red wine and the turkey timer.

159 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:40:33pm

Wingnuts are always going out of their way to do their best impersonation of Roseanne Roseannadanna on a daily basis.

If it’s not one thing, it’s another!

160 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:40:50pm

re: #146 Mr.Boots

If you’ve ever worked with young people, you’d know that they create T-shirts for virtually every ocasion even if they have to use a Sharpie pen. They range from tacky to extremely sophisticated depending on the age and talent level of the student(s) involved.

Yep. Because they’re cheap, available in bulk, and you can often get a discount on getting designs screened on them if you have a large enough order. It’s a perfect way to advertise a cause if you’re in a college student group that’s often low on funds.

161 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:40:52pm

Whine, whine, whine, whine.

162 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:41:38pm

re: #146 Mr.Boots

Google “Memorial T-shirts” and you will find any number of business who will create them for the bereaved. Not my thing, but it is becoming quite common. This piece from Slate nearly 8 years ago discusses the trend.

163 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:41:48pm

re: #161 Gus 802

Whine, whine, whine, whine.

The sommelier will be with you shortly.

164 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:41:58pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

They don’t cast him as a ‘poor kid’. They cast him as an ‘elite’.

Because he had the audacity to excel intellectually.

165 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:42:02pm

Always having a kanipshin fit about the dumbest things.

166 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:42:38pm

re: #165 Gus 802

It’s a lot of work to keep the outrage flowing.

167 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:42:54pm

re: #164 Mr.Boots

Because he had the audacity to excel intellectually.

The GOP has become the jocks from revenge of the nerds.

168 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:43:00pm

re: #166 jaunte

It’s a lot of work to keep the outrage flowing.

Knickers in a twist! Panties in a wad!

169 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:43:42pm

re: #167 Fozzie Bear

The GOP has become the jocks from revenge of the nerds.

Too bad they seem to have forgotten how that movie ends. Heh.

170 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:44:07pm

G’night everybody.

Sleep well, abide with whomsoever or whatsoever you find comfort in and tomorrow we start afresh.

171 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:44:13pm

re: #168 Gus 802

Luckily for the outrage cause, the internet is chock full of twisting, wadding pantyminions.

172 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:44:28pm

re: #155 zora


“The custom of granting citizenship”? Is it just a charming habit we’ve developed? Malkin is a nut.

173 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:44:31pm

I saw Laura Ingram on the O’Reilly show and she seemed so mad and bitter. Even O’Reilly was getting annoyed with her. I’m beginning to think all of this talk from the wingnuts like Ingram, Malkin, Rush, etc. is because they are pissed that the president received such a warm reception in AZ. Yes, some of the cheering and clapping was at times awkward, but how could the president control that?

I think they were reminded of how well he does with a crowd and realized that they don’t have anyone who can compete with it. They thought they had him after the election but he’s rebounding and it’s killing them. It’s like Clinton all over again except they know they will never find and intern under his desk. I think there fantasies about 2012 are meeting a hard, cold reality.

174 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:45:00pm

re: #169 Lidane

Too bad they seem to have forgotten how that movie ends. Heh.

I wonder who will be their Ogre. We can dream.

175 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:45:02pm
“Now this is what a funeral should be: a celebration of life with music, dancing and good vibes. Forget your maudlin Anglo-Saxon crap, this is how I’d love to go.”
Youtube Video

New Orleans Jazz Funeral for tuba player Kerwin James

176 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:45:08pm

re: #155 zora

i think she would have turned her own parents in if she was aware they weren’t citizens when she was a child. the woman is just hateful.

from wiki:

I have been under the impression that she, herself, is an “anchor baby.”

177 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:45:48pm

re: #173 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s like Clinton all over again except they know they will never find and intern under his desk. I think there fantasies about 2012 are meeting a hard, cold reality.

THIS

178 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:46:07pm

re: #167 Fozzie Bear

The GOP has become the jocks from revenge of the nerds.

Conservatism has become the new macho.

179 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:46:20pm

re: #171 jaunte

Luckily for the outrage cause, the internet is chock full of twisting, wadding pantyminions.

I wake up at 5 AM every morning with my hand my Obama face alarm clock! Then I slip into my “I hates Obama!” slippers and brush my teeth with some “Community Organizer” tooth paste!

//

180 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:48:05pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

What I just highlighted is exactly the problem they have. Just like ACORN, he wasn’t organizing the right communities.

181 avanti  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:48:31pm

re: #72 McSpiff

I’ve been to memorials with laughing, singing and finger food! Gasp!

Hot Air commented that food fenders even showed up for the crowd outside, oh the horror./

182 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:48:31pm

They must have pictures of Obama all over the interior walls of their houses. Magazine cut outs. In the basement too.

183 zora  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:48:53pm

re: #176 Mr.Boots

I have been under the impression that she, herself, is an “anchor baby.”

she is. crazy, right.

184 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:48:55pm

re: #176 Mr.Boots

I have been under the impression that she, herself, is an “anchor baby.”

I think her parents were here legally, but not American citizens.

185 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:49:22pm

re: #116 Lidane

That makes no sense to me. Isn’t she Filipino? Why on earth would you post at a white nationalist site if you’re a minority?

There are a lot of factors but many Asian cultures have their own ethnic nationalist traditions. Also White Nationalists are fairly kind to Asians. “Scientific Racism” racism often uses IQ and math aptitude studies in which Asians usually top the charts.

186 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:50:10pm

re: #181 avanti

Hot Air commented that food fenders even showed up for the crowd outside, oh the horror./

Fenders :)

187 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:50:17pm

re: #181 avanti

Thought you might like this.

188 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:50:49pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

There are a lot of factors but many Asian cultures have their own ethnic nationalist traditions. Also White Nationalists are fairly kind to Asians. “Scientific Racism” racism often uses IQ and math aptitude studies in which Asians usually top the charts.

By that logic, white nationalists should eliminate themselves, because Asians are the superior race.

(head explodes)

189 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:51:06pm

re: #76 Steve

Well damn. Now I’m going to have to throw away my NYFD cap and my 9/11 memorial T-shirt. Apparently they are inappropriate.

190 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:51:37pm

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

By that logic, white nationalists should eliminate themselves, because Asians are the superior race.

(head explodes)

Logic? You think their position involves logic?

191 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:51:39pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

There are a lot of factors but many Asian cultures have their own ethnic nationalist traditions. Also White Nationalists are fairly kind to Asians. “Scientific Racism” racism often uses IQ and math aptitude studies in which Asians usually top the charts.

I don’t know about all that, but they’ll embrace anyone who embraces their philosophies, be they Asian, or blond Jewish women.

192 avanti  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:51:42pm

re: #173 moderatelyradicalliberal

I saw Laura Ingram on the O’Reilly show and she seemed so mad and bitter. Even O’Reilly was getting annoyed with her. I’m beginning to think all of this talk from the wingnuts like Ingram, Malkin, Rush, etc. is because they are pissed that the president received such a warm reception in AZ. Yes, some of the cheering and clapping was at times awkward, but how could the president control that?

I think they were reminded of how well he does with a crowd and realized that they don’t have anyone who can compete with it. They thought they had him after the election but he’s rebounding and it’s killing them. It’s like Clinton all over again except they know they will never find and intern under his desk. I think there fantasies about 2012 are meeting a hard, cold reality.

We need to step out of the bubble and read some of the right wing blogs. Palin knocked it out of the park, and only a few beltway pin heads liked the POTUS’s speech. ( I read that on the internet/) They want to boycott FOX TV now, and get a new non-RINO network.

193 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:51:45pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Fenders :)

I’m tired. I actually googled that before I realized it was typo. Thought it must have been some funky new trend.

194 avanti  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:52:26pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Fenders :)

Too many Studebaker posts. :)

195 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:52:34pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Fenders :)

Electric guitars at a memorial service?!?

196 boxhead  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:52:34pm

re: #5 Charles

These idiots don’t even care any more about their own credibility. They’re so crazed they just vomit out the first hateful thing that pops into their heads, without fact-checking anything at all. And Malkin is far from the only right wing blogger who doesn’t give a shit.

What sucks is that they do so with impunity. Their followers think all evidence showing the Righties wrong is from Soros or some Liberal University…. Someday this mass delusion will be the fodder for a PhD, thesis.

197 bratwurst  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:52:53pm

At least MAlkin didn’t attempt to run with the short lived “there wasn’t a memorial service for the Ft. Hood shooting victims” meme. Only COMPLETE IDIOTS went for that one.

198 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:53:01pm

re: #195 jaunte

Electric guitars at a memorial service?!?

The Taco Telecaster.

/

199 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:53:05pm

re: #104 calochortus

The conservatives seem to have decided that everyone at the memorial was a liberal and that was why there was all that unseemly carrying on.

Of course they were all liberals. Why else would the president have been received so warmly? Only far left liberals still like him right?

////

200 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:53:24pm

re: #196 boxhead

What sucks is that they do so with impunity. Their followers think all evidence showing the Righties wrong is from Soros or some Liberal University… Someday this mass delusion will be the fodder for a PhD, thesis.

Alinsky!

201 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:53:27pm

re: #195 jaunte

Electric guitars at a memorial service?!?

Now that’s my kind of memorial service.

202 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:53:44pm

re: #191 marjoriemoon

I don’t know about all that, but they’ll embrace anyone who embraces their philosophies, be they Asian, or blond Jewish women.

Yes, she also provides cover for them against accusations of racism.

203 AlexRogan  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:54:11pm

re: #182 Gus 802

They must have pictures of Obama all over the interior walls of their houses. Magazine cut outs. In the basement too.

re: #183 zora

she is. crazy, right.

When I think of the most strident wingnuts, like Malkin, I think of Ace Ventura: Pet Detective and how Ray Finkel had a “shrine” to Dan Marino, whom he blamed for shanking the game-ending SB kick.

204 boxhead  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:54:33pm

re: #200 marjoriemoon

Alinsky!

No link, just talking to folks at the local VFW Post.

205 avanti  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:55:01pm

re: #198 Gus 802

The Taco Telecaster.

/

Did you notice the comments on other blogs about Obama using a teleprompter to read a speech written by Bush speed writers. Of course, neither is true.

206 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:55:17pm

re: #162 calochortus

Google “Memorial T-shirts” and you will find any number of business who will create them for the bereaved. Not my thing, but it is becoming quite common. This piece from Slate nearly 8 years ago discusses the trend.

Thanks. I am aware of the “Memorial T-Shirt ” business. It is impossible to have spent 34 years in Education and not have lost a student, former student, or a colleague beloved by students.

207 webevintage  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:55:21pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

The moment Palin got snotty about Obama being a “community organizer” in her RNC speech, was the moment I knew just exactly what type of person she was.

208 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:55:51pm

re: #173 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s like Clinton all over again except they know they will never find and intern under his desk.

By the time they even found the intern under Clinton’s desk, he’d already won a second term. For all their bluster and outrage, it was a moot point in the end.

As for Obama, that would never happen. He seems like too decent of a guy. Plus, he’s got his mother in law living with him in the White House. Anyone willing to go that far to give the kids as close to normal of a life as possible isn’t going to go fool with interns.

I think their fantasies about 2012 are meeting a hard, cold reality.

Unless something catastrophic happens with the economy (which is always possible), those fantasies dried up and died yesterday when Caribou Barbie’s speech looked so utterly petty, self-serving, and self-aggrandizing when compared to the speech he gave last night, and when the GOP was reduced to bitching about applause and T-shirts in response.

209 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:55:55pm

re: #203 talon_262

re: #183 zora

When I think of the most strident wingnuts, like Malkin, I think of Ace Ventura: Pet Detective and how Ray Finkel had a “shrine” to Dan Marino, whom he blamed for shanking the game-ending SB kick.

LACES OUT DAN!

210 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:55:57pm

re: #205 avanti

Did you notice the comments on other blogs about Obama using a teleprompter to read a speech written by Bush speed writers. Of course, neither is true.

Missed that. I’ve been ignoring those blogs.

211 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:56:09pm

re: #204 boxhead

No link, just talking to folks at the local VFW Post.

I was using your Soros, Liberal college reference to poke fun at a joke we started the other night. And to irritate Killgore :>

212 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:56:58pm

re: #207 webevintage

Except now she is the community organizer with not real responsibilities.

213 boxhead  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:57:18pm

re: #206 Mr.Boots

Thanks. I am aware of the “Memorial T-Shirt ” business. It is impossible to have spent 34 years in Education and not have lost a student, former student, or a colleague beloved by students.

Living in the Ghetto like I do, you see these all the time including fund raisers for funeral costs..

214 boxhead  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:57:39pm

re: #211 marjoriemoon

:)

215 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:58:25pm

re: #213 boxhead

Living in the Ghetto like I do, you see these all the time including fund raisers for funeral costs..

There you go. It’s a good fund raising element.

216 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:58:53pm

re: #213 boxhead

Living in the Ghetto like I do, you see these all the time including fund raisers for funeral costs..

And we all know that anything “urban” isn’t really American, don’t we?

217 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:59:01pm

re: #205 avanti

You could see the teleprompter reflecting in Palin’s glasses in her video. At least she didn’t use her hand.

218 zora  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:59:15pm

my husband: are you still online.

me: yes, quite a compelling group of folks at lgf

my husband: what does that make me?

aww.

later, lizards. need to go make the husband feel special.

219 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:59:50pm

re: #218 zora

my husband: are you still online.

me: yes, quite a compelling group of folks at lgf

my husband: what does that make me?

aww.

later, lizards. need to go make the husband feel special.

Tell him to logon!

220 boxhead  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:59:55pm

re: #216 calochortus

And we all know that anything “urban” isn’t really American, don’t we?

LOL…. I think I still live in USA…. Although some parts of my town do seem like another country… :)

221 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:00:03pm

I need a husband too.

222 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:00:19pm

re: #213 boxhead

Yeah. With the dead person’s face and everything. The people are almost always too young to have died.

223 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:00:45pm

re: #221 Jadespring

I need a husband too.

I need a wife.

224 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:00:49pm

re: #221 Jadespring

I need a husband too.

Minions, husband….

Anybody heading to the store anytime soon? Jadespring wanted to add a few things to the list…

225 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:01:21pm

Im surprised there haven’t been many wingnut attacks on Michelle Obama over the memorial…….. Never understood that at all…… Ive seen eight different first ladies come and go, and had nothing but admiration for all of them, class acts one and all.

226 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:01:24pm

re: #223 marjoriemoon

LOL! That’s what my mom used to say.

227 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:02:49pm
LOL… I think I still live in USA… Although some parts of my town do seem like another country… :)

I don’t know, if you’re not surrounded by Republicans you might want to make sure that you’re still really in the US.

228 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:03:00pm

Well technically speaking I do have a husband.

229 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:03:20pm

Glenn Reynolds having a flight of fancy:

She may not become President, and she may not even want to be President — though, regardless, it’s in her interest to keep everyone guessing as long as possible
231 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:03:43pm

re: #228 Jadespring

Well technically speaking I do have a husband.

They come in handy. Hanging pictures, opening jars and whatnot.

232 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:04:28pm

re: #231 marjoriemoon

Some of us can even reach high shelves!

233 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:05:01pm

re: #232 jaunte

Some of us can even reach high shelves!

We don’t want you to. That’s where the good chocolate is hidden.

234 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:05:36pm

re: #175 Reginald Perrin

Thanks for posting that!
I have a “life celebration party” to go to this weekend.
I hope it’s that neat, Kip certainly was.

235 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:05:38pm

re: #229 jaunte

Glenn Reynolds having a flight of fancy:

From a media interest and financial standpoint this is actually true.

236 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:05:46pm

re: #231 marjoriemoon

They come in handy. Hanging pictures, opening jars and whatnot.

Well yeah when they’re actually around to do it!


Don’t mind me, just a little blah. The hubby has been away for a few days. :( Strangely enough I miss the guy! :)

237 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:05:47pm

Jon Stewart is eviscerating critics of last night’s memorial. I’m enjoying it immensely.

238 sod  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:05:50pm

I was listening to Hannity on the drive home today (and a little of Rush earlier in the day) and I must admit I’m beginning to find them taxing. The “logic” of their arguments seems to be:

1. Nothing radio personalities or right-wing politicians have said incites violence. To the contrary, many have them have explicitly said that resorting to violence is not the answer but that the ballot box is.

I’m willing to concede point number 1. I personally don’t think “heated rhetoric” is to blame for what happened in AZ.

But they don’t stop at point 1. That should be the end of it. Nothing that we say encourages violence. Period. But no, they go on to points 2 and 3:

2. The shooter in AZ didn’t listen to talk radio. If anything he was a lefty.

If point number 1 is true than point number 2 is completely irrelevant. To even make point 2 seems to concede that you think that some people may be pushed to violence by talk radio.

3. Start throwing out controversial quotes by left wing politicians and bloggers to try to portray them as being equally partisan and combative.

So again I don’t get this. See point 1. Nothing we say is bad, but, they’re doing it too!!

239 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:06:41pm

But officials at the University of Arizona said the White House had nothing to do with the name or the logo.

this won’t prevent the lie from becoming yet another cherished item in the rosary of wingnut grievances

240 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:06:43pm

“You can either have a pep rally or a memorial service…”

(Talking head)

“You ever been to an Irish Wake? I’ve never been sadder or laughed harder in my life.

(Jon Stewart)

241 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:06:53pm

re: #217 moderatelyradicalliberal

You could see the teleprompter reflecting in Palin’s glasses in her video. At least she didn’t use her hand.

Thanks for noting that. I thought I was imagining it.

242 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:07:39pm

re: #231 marjoriemoon

And hauling the garbage cans to the curb.

243 Batman  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:08:03pm

Isn’t that the university that refused to give Obama an honorary diploma because he hasn’t done anything to deserve it?

244 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:08:26pm

re: #236 Jadespring

Well yeah when they’re actually around to do it!

Don’t mind me, just a little blah. The hubby has been away for a few days. :( Strangely enough I miss the guy! :)

Oh that’s a drag :( But they say absence can be a good thing. (What do they know.)

245 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:09:18pm

re: #238 sod

So again I don’t get this. See point 1. Nothing we say is bad, but, they’re doing it too!!

you need to take my class “Learning How To Think Like A Seven-Year-Old”

246 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:10:01pm

re: #242 Mr.Boots

And hauling the garbage cans to the curb.

That reminds me tomorrow I have to haul the garbage outside to the truck, shovel out the truck and drive the garbage to the dump. All because the hubby isn’t here to do it!

Poor me. :(

(I’m having a pity party right now)

247 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:10:07pm

Here ya’ go. Crowd shot from the memorial.

Image: 999x.jpg

Find the t-shirt. I think I see about 4 out of the 100s.

248 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:11:13pm

re: #232 jaunte

Some of us can even reach high shelves!

I think that’s why my wife keeps me around. She’s short, I’m not.

249 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:11:43pm

re: #247 Gus 802

But wait…..why isn’t everyone in the crowd over 55 and white??

250 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:12:01pm

Barely a few here.

Image: 999x.jpg

Very mixed crowd BTW.

251 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:12:02pm

re: #238 sod

I was listening to Hannity on the drive home today (and a little of Rush earlier in the day) and I must admit I’m beginning to find them taxing. The “logic” of their arguments seems to be:

1. Nothing radio personalities or right-wing politicians have said incites violence. To the contrary, many have them have explicitly said that resorting to violence is not the answer but that the ballot box is.

I’m willing to concede point number 1. I personally don’t think “heated rhetoric” is to blame for what happened in AZ.

But they don’t stop at point 1. That should be the end of it. Nothing that we say encourages violence. Period. But no, they go on to points 2 and 3:

2. The shooter in AZ didn’t listen to talk radio. If anything he was a lefty.

If point number 1 is true than point number 2 is completely irrelevant. To even make point 2 seems to concede that you think that some people may be pushed to violence by talk radio.

3. Start throwing out controversial quotes by left wing politicians and bloggers to try to portray them as being equally partisan and combative.

So again I don’t get this. See point 1. Nothing we say is bad, but, they’re doing it too!!

These are the guys who decry the effect of liberal media, i.e. film, music, filthy language influencing impressionable youth, but deny that their media language has any effect at all.

252 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:12:10pm

Palin’s speech was much better with all the words edited out….

Youtube Video
253 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:12:19pm

re: #243 nonsense

Isn’t that the university that refused to give Obama an honorary diploma because he hasn’t done anything to deserve it?

Actually it was. And the president doesn’t hold grudges.

254 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:12:26pm

re: #249 dmon

But wait…why isn’t everyone in the crowd over 55 and white??

Where’s the pitchforks and AR-15s!!11ty

255 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:14:18pm

re: #244 marjoriemoon

Oh that’s a drag :( But they say absence can be a good thing. (What do they know.)

He’s away so much right now that I can’t even tell if it’s absence makes the heart grow fonder. I don’t have a chance to find out if I’ll be just as fond if he’s at home for days at a time. :) At Christmas he got to spend 4 whole days in a row at home! It actually felt weird.

256 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:14:30pm

re: #243 nonsense

Yes, But he spoke at the commencement anyway and gave a really good speech saying it was ok because his life’s work wasn’t done. He handled the whole thing really well.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:14:38pm

re: #39 Jadespring

Oh goodie we’re going to get Targets up here now. I’m so excited.

Not really but it’s BIG news on the news channels right now.

Targets are actually rather nice to have.

Remember, it’s pronounced “Tar-JHAY”, if anyone asks you where your blouse came from.

258 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:15:19pm

re: #246 Jadespring

That reminds me tomorrow I have to haul the garbage outside to the truck, shovel out the truck and drive the garbage to the dump. All because the hubby isn’t here to do it!

Poor me. :(

(I’m having a pity party right now)

That’s why I’m happy to have our future son in law living with us. When I’m here in Florida for a spell, my wife, up in NY, still has him to haul the garbage and run the snowthrower. She’s housebreaking him for our daughter.

259 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:15:31pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

Targets are actually rather nice to have.

Remember, it’s pronounced “Tar-JHAY”, if anyone asks you where your blouse came from.

Yeah, you gotta make it sound French.

260 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:15:42pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

Palin’s speech was much better with all the words edited out…

[Video]

The way she pushes up that lower lip, she’s going to have some set of frown lines as she gets older. You can see them starting already.

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:15:52pm

re: #47 calochortus

I have to say I find T-shirts for a memorial service a little odd. I find cheering and applause at a memorial service odd. But then, I find applause at a wedding to be odd… It just means I’m on the older side of things. Memorial T-shirts for individuals have been around for at least several years, and I suppose when you are in an arena there are only limited ways of showing appreciation/agreement.

People who carry on about the evil of well intentioned people’s utterly harmless efforts to deal with tragedy, are nuts.

One of my students a couple of years ago wrote a poem about death. The line that’s stayed with me is, “No one wants to see their loved one on a t-shirt”.

262 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:16:24pm

re: #258 Mr.Boots

That’s why I’m happy to have our future son in law living with us. When I’m here in Florida for a spell, my wife, up in NY, still has him to haul the garbage and run the snowthrower. She’s housebreaking him for our daughter.

Wonderful for your daughter. :) Good to get some prep work in.

263 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:17:04pm

re: #261 SanFranciscoZionist

Well there’s a mental image I didn’t need :(

264 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:17:19pm

re: #260 makeitstop

The way she pushes up that lower lip, she’s going to have some set of frown lines as she gets older. You can see them starting already.

She actually did look quite old in the video. She normally looks younger than she is.

265 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:17:20pm

re: #243 nonsense

Isn’t that the university that refused to give Obama an honorary diploma because he hasn’t done anything to deserve it?

No actually, I’m wrong. He was denied the honorary degree at Arizona State University. The memorial was held at the University of Arizona. They’re different schools. ASU is in Tempe.

266 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:17:43pm

Oh noz! Here’s some folks wearing the t-shirt!

Image: x999.jpg

Look at how distracting that is!

267 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:18:01pm

re: #265 marjoriemoon

No actually, I’m wrong. He was denied the honorary degree at Arizona State University. The memorial was held at the University of Arizona. They’re different schools. ASU is in Tempe.

Oops. I got it wrong too.

268 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:18:02pm

re: #255 Jadespring

He’s away so much right now that I can’t even tell if it’s absence makes the heart grow fonder. I don’t have a chance to find out if I’ll be just as fond if he’s at home for days at a time. :) At Christmas he got to spend 4 whole days in a row at home! It actually felt weird.

Oh no. That’s not good! (((jadespring)))

269 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:18:23pm

re: #264 moderatelyradicalliberal

She actually did look quite old in the video. She normally looks younger than she is.

The inherent danger of a tight close-up.

Will her acolytes still worship her when her looks go?

270 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:18:55pm
That’s why I’m happy to have our future son in law living with us. When I’m here in Florida for a spell, my wife, up in NY, still has him to haul the garbage and run the snowthrower. She’s housebreaking him for our daughter.

WOW….you’re good…..when my stepson lived with us, he was so lazy breathing wore him out

271 Batman  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:19:12pm

re: #256 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yes, But he spoke at the commencement anyway and gave a really good speech saying it was ok because his life’s work wasn’t done. He handled the whole thing really well.

And thus they forged a friendship that would last a lifetime, and enable them to collaborate an this massive PR campaign to brainwash someone or something.

272 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:19:33pm

re: #270 dmon

WOW…you’re good…when my stepson lived with us, he was so lazy breathing wore him out

LOL!

273 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:19:39pm

re: #268 marjoriemoon

Oh no. That’s not good! (((jadespring)))

Thanks. I will survive. One of the reasons he’s away so much now is so that in the future he won’t have to be. So it will all be good in the end. :)

274 Batman  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:20:00pm

re: #265 marjoriemoon

No actually, I’m wrong. He was denied the honorary degree at Arizona State University. The memorial was held at the University of Arizona. They’re different schools. ASU is in Tempe.

Nevermind ^^

275 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:20:28pm

re: #267 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oops. I got it wrong too.

I’m assuming UofA is a private school.

276 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:21:19pm

re: #275 marjoriemoon

I’m assuming UofA is a private school.

Nope, its public.

277 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:21:23pm

re: #271 nonsense

I was wrong about which school it was, but either way, the wingnuts aren’t happy about him being so warmly welcomed in AZ. They don’t want the warmth to still be there in 2012.

278 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:22:21pm

re: #269 makeitstop

The inherent danger of a tight close-up.

Will her acolytes still worship her when her looks go?

I really don’t like saying it but I do think that a certain segment won’t.

279 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:23:01pm

re: #235 moderatelyradicalliberal

From a media interest and financial standpoint this is actually true.

True, after the regardless part. The flight of fancy is in his using the words “may not become President.”

280 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:23:24pm

re: #276 calochortus

Nope, its public.

Is ASU and UofA of the same school system?

281 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:23:45pm

re: #278 Jadespring

Hey did you ever send me that email? Just making sure there’s no more email weirdness afoot.

282 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:23:49pm

re: #93 jaunte

“I told you I wasn’t feeling well!”

Or the one supposedly on the tombstone of an old Chicago bluesman—

“I didn’t get up this morning”

Years ago, I told my parents that if I should die, instead of a funeral I wanted them to organize a proper Irish wake. When they objected on the grounds that we’re not Irish, I replied, “Why should that get in the way of my friends and family having a good time?”

I still feel the same way. Don’t mourn for me, a proper memorial would be to celebrate the good times.

283 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:25:15pm

It was entirely appropriate for the President to give a speech when a Congressperson is shot. Think of what would have been said if he hadn’t done so.

284 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:25:44pm

re: #279 jaunte

Oh well, yeah. President Palin wasn’t happening before the “blood libel” video.

285 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:26:02pm

Or the greater irony. Suddenly the wingnuts are the champions of etiquette.

Luckily there wasn’t some nut in the crowd that screamed out “you lie!” while Obama was speaking.

No wait. You get to make t-shirts out of that too.

286 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:26:20pm

re: #281 Obdicut

Hey did you ever send me that email? Just making sure there’s no more email weirdness afoot.

No not yet. I started it and had to go do something else before I finished.

287 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:26:55pm

re: #285 Gus 802

Or the greater irony. Suddenly the wingnuts are the champions of etiquette.

Luckily there wasn’t some nut in the crowd that screamed out “you lie!” while Obama was speaking.

No wait. You get to make t-shirts out of that too.

And engrave it on guns!!

288 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:27:30pm

re: #286 Jadespring

No worries. Take your time.

289 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:27:31pm

re: #277 moderatelyradicalliberal

I was wrong about which school it was, but either way, the wingnuts aren’t happy about him being so warmly welcomed in AZ. They don’t want the warmth to still be there in 2012.

Clearly they’re afraid that Barack Obama will run for Senator of AZ and hand John McCain another electoral loss…

290 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:27:33pm

re: #285 Gus 802

And guns.

slatest.slate.com

291 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:28:51pm

re: #289 jamesfirecat

LOL! Of course the Messiah would think he could be a Senator and a President at the same time.

292 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:28:58pm

re: #280 marjoriemoon

I’m not sure how Arizona runs their public universities. Here in California we have University of California, and what used to be Cal State Colleges. Separate systems with separate administrations. Back in the day the UC campuses granted doctorates, and the Cal State’s didn’t. Now Cal States are Cal State University at Wherever and they generally do grant doctorates as well.
I’d guess Arizona has something similar.

293 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:29:03pm

re: #287 dmon

And engrave it on guns!!

re: #290 moderatelyradicalliberal

And guns.

[Link: slatest.slate.com…]

Yeah. That’s really classy isn’t it? I mean, being that it was directed at the POTUS.

294 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:29:17pm

re: #282 ClaudeMonet

Or the one supposedly on the tombstone of an old Chicago bluesman—

“I didn’t get up this morning”

Years ago, I told my parents that if I should die, instead of a funeral I wanted them to organize a proper Irish wake. When they objected on the grounds that we’re not Irish, I replied, “Why should that get in the way of my friends and family having a good time?”

I still feel the same way. Don’t mourn for me, a proper memorial would be to celebrate the good times.

My sis-in-law had a dear friend that passed away a few years ago. She had a big-band funeral, New Orleans style, horse-drawn carriages, too. In So. Calif. The woman had put money aside for the service.

Me? I want people wailing, yelling and rendering their garments. Miss me like you mean it!

295 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:30:10pm

re: #279 jaunte

True, after the regardless part. The flight of fancy is in his using the words “may not become President.”

Palins chance’s of becoming President are roughly equal to Edward Scissorhand beating the Fantastic Four’s Thing in a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

296 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:30:56pm

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Palins chance’s of becoming President are roughly equal to Edward Scissorhand beating the Fantastic Four’s Thing in a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Methinks Bozo the Clown stands a better chance than Palin.

297 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:31:49pm

re: #294 marjoriemoon

My sis-in-law had a dear friend that passed away a few years ago. She had a big-band funeral, New Orleans style, horse-drawn carriages, too. In So. Calif. The woman had put money aside for the service.

Me? I want people wailing, yelling and rendering their garments. Miss me like you mean it!

I want them falling out in the aisles and trying to jump in the casket. Wailing and gnashing of teeth dammit!

298 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:32:23pm

re: #270 dmon

WOW…you’re good…when my stepson lived with us, he was so lazy breathing wore him out

I didn’t say he does it willingly, but he’s learning. My wife kicks ass. She housebroke me and many swore it couldn’t be done. 34 years and counting.

299 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:33:02pm

re: #297 moderatelyradicalliberal

I want them falling out in the aisles and trying to jump in the casket. Wailing and gnashing of teeth dammit!

lol You got it!!

300 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:33:23pm

re: #294 marjoriemoon

My sis-in-law had a dear friend that passed away a few years ago. She had a big-band funeral, New Orleans style, horse-drawn carriages, too. In So. Calif. The woman had put money aside for the service.

Me? I want people wailing, yelling and rendering their garments. Miss me like you mean it!

I hope they will rend their garments, not render them… :)

301 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:34:30pm

I have a dear friend, Amie, she’s only 40 and is at the local Hospice dying of breast cancer…….. when you go to visit her you don’t dare cry, if you do she really gives you hell……… i really doubts she wants any crying at her funeral.


I did score big points tonight when I walked in with one pound of crab legs and a piece of Key lime pie.

302 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:34:57pm

re: #296 Gus 802

Methinks Bozo the Clown stands a better chance than Palin.

Pfft. Lyndon LaRouche and Cynthia McKinney have greater chances of becoming POTUS at this point.

If you look at both speeches from yesterday side by side, you simply can’t imagine Sarah Palin rising to the occasion of that memorial service, or having the empathy or ability to strike a healing tone when the time calls for it. She exposed herself as a petty, self-centered person yesterday.

303 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:35:13pm

re: #300 calochortus

I hope they will rend their garments, not render them… :)

hehe that would be like a nudist funeral?

304 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:35:58pm

The more I see of the news these days, the more resolved I become that my first act, if ever elected President, will be to prohibit Dumb.

Unfortunately this act will probably create an underground movement of Dumb-Running, and the only charges I’ll be able to stick to the worst of the Dumb-runners will be tax evasion.

305 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:36:36pm

re: #301 dmon

I have a dear friend, Amie, she’s only 40 and is at the local Hospice dying of breast cancer… when you go to visit her you don’t dare cry, if you do she really gives you hell… i really doubts she wants any crying at her funeral.

I did score big points tonight when I walked in with one pound of crab legs and a piece of Key lime pie.

Well no, not when they are still with us!

I’m sorry for your friend. I’ve been through that a few times… It’s a blessing that you go see her.

306 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:36:36pm

re: #303 marjoriemoon

snicker*

307 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:37:00pm

re: #301 dmon

Sorry to hear that. That’s way too young. Glad she has good friends.

308 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:37:10pm

re: #302 Lidane

Pfft. Lyndon LaRouche and Cynthia McKinney have greater chances of becoming POTUS at this point.

If you look at both speeches from yesterday side by side, you simply can’t imagine Sarah Palin rising to the occasion of that memorial service, or having the empathy or ability to strike a healing tone when the time calls for it. She exposed herself as a petty, self-centered person yesterday.

I can see Alaska from here!

//

309 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:37:50pm

re: #303 marjoriemoon

Now that would result in laughter no matter what.

310 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:38:09pm

Okay I just ate 4 brownies and now I feel ill.

Should have gone with the spaghetti.

311 dmon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:38:20pm

It sucks but wife and I have decided…..If she has made peace with it……who are we to moan

312 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:38:53pm

re: #310 Jadespring

Its not too late to add in the spaghetti.

313 What, me worry?  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:39:02pm

re: #309 moderatelyradicalliberal

Now that would result in laughter no matter what.

I have a feeling it’s probably been done!

Ok, I’m getting silly. I better totter off to bed. You all sleep well.

314 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:39:16pm

re: #302 Lidane

And not nearly as hot up close. Seriously, she’s getting old lady neck and jowls.

315 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:39:45pm

re: #313 marjoriemoon

You too.

316 Jadespring  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:39:46pm

re: #312 calochortus

Its not too late to add in the spaghetti.

Ugh… no. Not appetizing at all anymore.

317 calochortus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:40:19pm

I’m out too. Catch you all later.

318 freetoken  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:43:18pm

re: #292 calochortus

I’m pretty sure AZ set up their two major universities like many mid-western states did with their land grant colleges - divide the specialties (e.g., Kansas & Kansas State, Iowa and Iowa State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, etc.)

UA is a major center for Astronomy, some types of Arts, etc. ASU had some engineering and some sciences, etc.

The California system is sort of unique. Yes, it really was sort of a caste system, with the UC schools being the premier research institutions and the Cal State serving up undergrad degrees to the masses.

319 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:43:23pm

Good night all.

320 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:44:21pm

re: #310 Jadespring

Okay I just ate 4 brownies and now I feel ill.

Should have gone with the spaghetti.

I’m on the flip side of that situation… I skipped the junky stuff today (I even ate a healthy lunch of chicken with vegetables!) but then the domestic partner/woman of the house threw together some spaghetti with our home-made tomato basil soup as a “sauce” this evening.. Holy cow it was good… I usually lay off the spaghetti but the soup was just right, and it combined with the correctly cooked pasta just so… And I ate fully triple my normal amount. It acted like a trigger food somehow, and I binged myself stupid. Yeesh…

321 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:45:50pm

re: #221 Jadespring

I need a husband too.

Are you good looking? Are you rich? Answer the second question first.

(Shamelessly stealing from that evil Marxist, Groucho)

re: #232 jaunte

Some of us can even reach high shelves!

Not me. I leave the higher shelves empty for a reason.

re: #260 makeitstop

The way she pushes up that lower lip, she’s going to have some set of frown lines as she gets older. You can see them starting already.

Indeed, and the cords in her neck are starting to stand out more. Perhaps it’s because we’ve all learned what a dreadful public person she is, but I don’t think she’s nearly as attractive as she was when she first became prominent.

322 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:51:26pm

re: #260 makeitstop

Indeed, and the cords in her neck are starting to stand out more. Perhaps it’s because we’ve all learned what a dreadful public person she is, but I don’t think she’s nearly as attractive as she was when she first became prominent.

Well, they do say that being president ages you quickly. ;-)

323 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:52:57pm

re: #265 marjoriemoon

No actually, I’m wrong. He was denied the honorary degree at Arizona State University. The memorial was held at the University of Arizona. They’re different schools. ASU is in Tempe.

Oh boy, I hope we don’t have anyone from ASU or U of A around. Confusing the two schools is tantamount to treason in Arizona.

re: #301 dmon

I have a dear friend, Amie, she’s only 40 and is at the local Hospice dying of breast cancer… when you go to visit her you don’t dare cry, if you do she really gives you hell… i really doubts she wants any crying at her funeral.

I did score big points tonight when I walked in with one pound of crab legs and a piece of Key lime pie.

That’s a real friend. I hope that if I go that way, my friends will do something similar. Make mine coconut cream instead of Key lime.

324 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:59:07pm

re: #301 dmon

I have a dear friend, Amie, she’s only 40 and is at the local Hospice dying of breast cancer… when you go to visit her you don’t dare cry, if you do she really gives you hell… i really doubts she wants any crying at her funeral.


I did score big points tonight when I walked in with one pound of crab legs and a piece of Key lime pie.

I’m sorry to hear that. My sister is fighting breast cancer for the second time. It has spread everywhere and the outcome is not in doubt. Her time remaining on Earth is short, but we still speak of the future because there is always hope.

325 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:08:53pm

re: #324 Mr.Boots

I’m sorry to hear that. My sister is fighting breast cancer for the second time. It has spread everywhere and the outcome is not in doubt. Her time remaining on Earth is short, but we still speak of the future because there is always hope.

May God bless her. You might want to ask hoops to put her on the Prayer List.

326 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:09:43pm

re: #26 SilentAlfa

I am always amused when I see people rag on Obama for having been a community organizer once. I don’t know, it seems to me like taking the initiative to try to organize an effort to improve a very poor community, is the honorable American thing to do.

Dont know tho thats just me bro!

There’s nothing wrong with organizing a community to effect positive change. There’s nothing all that great about attempting it and coming up dry. Now good people have their down days, and Obama’s surely had far better days. Like, say, yesterday.

But seriously, why score a missed field goal as a big plus? Why not just give credit for the ones he hits, and the TD’s, and leave the modest and inevitable admixture of failures as just that?

327 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:12:37pm

Have all the LGF day conservatives gone to bed?

328 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:12:49pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

No.

329 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:13:26pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

But then, I’m a conservative at night too.

330 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:13:28pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

Have all the LGF day conservatives gone to bed?

Why what did you want to say?

331 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:13:33pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

Have all the LGF day conservatives gone to bed?

Yes… we’re old and tired… leave us alone.

332 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:14:14pm

re: #331 Walter L. Newton

Yes… we’re old and tired… leave us alone.

I thought you’d be at the airport by now, trying to be the 1st in line for your morning grope!

333 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:14:16pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

Have all the LGF day conservatives gone to bed?

Are you going to be naughty?

334 Buck  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:14:42pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

No

335 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:14:42pm

re: #333 Floral Giraffe


Yes

336 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:14:56pm

re: #331 Walter L. Newton

Yes… we’re old and tired… leave us alone.

Are you getting excited for the Paris trip?
Take pictures!

337 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:15:38pm

This is kinda how I imagine LGF after about 930 EST most nights

Youtube Video
338 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:15:48pm

re: #335 SpaceJesus

Well, don’t let us stop you.
Most of us like naughty, this time of night.

339 Mr.Boots  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:15:49pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon


My thanks to you DF and to all of you for your kindness.

340 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:16:59pm

re: #332 sattv4u2

I thought you’d be at the airport by now, trying to be the 1st in line for your morning grope!

I’m going to take a nap in a few minutes… just got finished watching “Persepolis” get that movie.

341 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:19:15pm

re: #340 Walter L. Newton

Persepolis

Loved that movie. The graphic novel that inspired it is definitely worth the read, too.

342 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:20:23pm

re: #337 SpaceJesus

This is kinda how I imagine LGF after about 930 EST most nights


[Video]

Who knew North Koreans were so fonky?

343 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:21:28pm

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

344 Lidane  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:21:33pm

re: #342 makeitstop

Who knew North Koreans were so fonky?

They’ve got the Dear Leader to inspire them. Why wouldn’t they get their freak on?

///

345 Gus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:22:27pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

Break a leg!

346 freetoken  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:22:30pm

I like the orchid that was named for that old capitol. Here is Lc. Persepolis Splendor.

347 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:22:41pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

have a GREAT time

348 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:22:53pm

re: #339 Mr.Boots

My thanks to you DF and to all of you for your kindness.

You’re welcome, and do ask Hoops about the Prayer List.

349 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:23:48pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

Have fun!

350 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:23:54pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

Have a wonderful trip, Walter! May it be everything you want it to be.

351 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:25:12pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

May it be the best vacation you’ve ever had.

352 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:25:56pm

re: #337 SpaceJesus

That was a funny video, but I don’t see Lizards marching in lock step, any time of day.
Do you?

353 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:27:37pm

re: #344 Lidane

And he is some kind of piece of work!

354 AlexRogan  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:27:42pm

re: #352 Floral Giraffe

That was a funny video, but I don’t see Lizards marching in lock step, any time of day.
Do you?

I think he was referring to the boogieing…

355 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:29:59pm

re: #346 freetoken

WOW! That’s a lovely old hybrid.

356 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:31:45pm

re: #352 Floral Giraffe

More like a herd of cats.

358 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:33:51pm

re: #324 Mr.Boots

I’m sorry to hear that. My sister is fighting breast cancer for the second time. It has spread everywhere and the outcome is not in doubt. Her time remaining on Earth is short, but we still speak of the future because there is always hope.

Give her whatever she wants. It costs you little or nothing and makes her ordeal more bearable. When she goes, remember her at her best and smile.

359 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:35:34pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Ok… now I’m really going to bed… need to wake up in about 6 hours and go to Paris.

au revoir

Have a safe trip.

360 freetoken  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:35:39pm

re: #355 Floral Giraffe

It was very popular not only for hobbyists to grow but also for breeders to use.

I never grew it, but IIRC I did try to grow some offspring.

361 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:38:09pm

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

By that logic, white nationalists should eliminate themselves, because Asians are the superior race.

(head explodes)

Hitler ended up conceding that in fact the Germans were not the master race after all. The Russians were. Because they’d won.

So he went to work trying to eliminate the Germans, by flooding the subway tunnels that were being used as air raid shelters.

Somehow it always comes down to killing whoever’s in reach.

362 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:40:21pm

re: #352 Floral Giraffe

Naw, just playing off the whole “LGF is Marxist Cult a bloo bloo bloo” stuff.

363 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:41:18pm

re: #335 SpaceJesus

Did you get a good laugh out of my email?

364 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:46:27pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

There are a lot of factors but many Asian cultures have their own ethnic nationalist traditions. Also White Nationalists are fairly kind to Asians. “Scientific Racism” racism often uses IQ and math aptitude studies in which Asians usually top the charts.

One can debate the conclusions that should be drawn from those tests, but it’s true that when one averages the scores of those who are categorized as of East Asian descent, the number that comes out of the computer tends to be higher than the average of all scores. Nor is this detached from all other reality. East Asians tend to be represented among the winners at science fairs, math contests and the like in greater numbers than their share of the overall population.

365 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:51:09pm

re: #364 lostlakehiker

You’ll notice that most of the national spelling bee champions are from families immigrated from India. There are a lot of factors involved; cultural attitudes towards education, early education, natural aptitude, etc. Genetic differences are probably fairly minor.

366 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:51:50pm

re: #362 SpaceJesus

Naw, just playing off the whole “LGF is Marxist Cult a bloo bloo bloo” stuff.

I’m sure the ‘fan club’ saw it. Now you’re a “Totalitarian Progressive who worships North Korea”.

/

367 freetoken  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:56:44pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Genetic differences are probably fairly minor.

But that is not stopping the burgeoning resurgence of genetic racism.

368 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 9:57:53pm

re: #360 freetoken

155 registered progeny, it was a good breeder.

369 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:01:31pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

You’ll notice that most of the national spelling bee champions are from families immigrated from India. There are a lot of factors involved; cultural attitudes towards education, early education, natural aptitude, etc. Genetic differences are probably fairly minor.

Natural aptitude is by definition genetic. There’s only two choices: put it down to superior training and harder work, or put it down to genetics.

Test scores of East Asians in the U.S. are a fairly good fit for test scores in China and Japan. Test scores of immigrants from India are a different story. The averages reported from the U.S. are higher than those reported from India. But these test scores of immigrants from India to the U.S., and their families, are once again a reasonably good match for their results at spelling bees and other contests.

370 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:03:37pm

re: #369 lostlakehiker

Natural aptitude is by definition genetic. There’s only two choices: put it down to superior training and harder work, or put it down to genetics.

Test scores of East Asians in the U.S. are a fairly good fit for test scores in China and Japan. Test scores of immigrants from India are a different story. The averages reported from the U.S. are higher than those reported from India. But these test scores of immigrants from India to the U.S., and their families, are once again a reasonably good match for their results at spelling bees and other contests.

I thought genetic in that sense, meant from parents to child, not ethnicity.

371 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:09:35pm

re: #370 ggt

I thought genetic in that sense, meant from parents to child, not ethnicity.

Any difference between the averages posted by groups must be some product of group-wide environmental differences and group-wide genetic differences. What else is there?

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:17:12pm

re: #104 calochortus

The conservatives seem to have decided that everyone at the memorial was a liberal and that was why there was all that unseemly carrying on.

I hope someone told Jan Brewer.

373 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:23:16pm

re: #173 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s like Clinton all over again except they know they will never find and intern under his desk.

Yeah. I think I can safely say that after the enormous amount of energy and money that went into finding something, ANYTHING awful in Barack Obama’s closet, the horrible truth is that he doesn’t cheat on his taxes or run around with loose women.

This discovery is probably eating some of his less rational detractors alive.

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:24:02pm

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

By that logic, white nationalists should eliminate themselves, because Asians are the superior race.

(head explodes)

Or, you know, at least let the Asians run everything.

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:24:36pm

re: #197 bratwurst

At least MAlkin didn’t attempt to run with the short lived “there wasn’t a memorial service for the Ft. Hood shooting victims” meme. Only COMPLETE IDIOTS went for that one.

That was infuriating.

376 palomino  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:26:52pm

re: #31 Steve

Was not trying to be insulting!

Bullshit, why else would you call the Commander in Chief a Community Organizer in Chief?

You’re a liar and a tool. Bad combo.

377 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:27:52pm

re: #225 dmon

Im surprised there haven’t been many wingnut attacks on Michelle Obama over the memorial… Never understood that at all… Ive seen eight different first ladies come and go, and had nothing but admiration for all of them, class acts one and all.

I never liked Nancy Reagan. She adored her Ronnie, but I always had the feeling she’d like to see the rest of us shot.

Barbara, Hillary, Laura, Michelle—no complaints.

378 palomino  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:29:30pm

re: #69 Steve

them?

It was a memorial service!

Fuck you, sometimes a memorial service is a celebration of people’s lives. You’re a troll, tool, dickish hack. We get it: you hate Obama and he can do no right. Now crawl back into your wingnut hole.

379 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:32:02pm

re: #371 lostlakehiker

Any difference between the averages posted by groups must be some product of group-wide environmental differences and group-wide genetic differences. What else is there?

I was asking myself. I’m tired and am, by no means, an expert in this sort of thing. It seems to be that “averages” are kinda deceiving. There are a lot of factors involved.

380 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:39:24pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

Have all the LGF day conservatives gone to bed?

Is this like the “My Name Is Earl” concept of a ‘daytime hooker’?

381 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 10:39:54pm

re: #340 Walter L. Newton

I’m going to take a nap in a few minutes… just got finished watching “Persepolis” get that movie.

Seen it, liked it, preferred the books.

382 samgak  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:45:10am

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

By that logic, white nationalists should eliminate themselves, because Asians are the superior race.

(head explodes)


Contemporary “scientific racists” generally do not advocate for the extermination of groups they claim have lower average IQs.

383 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 4:29:26am

re: #369 lostlakehiker

Natural aptitude is by definition genetic. There’s only two choices: put it down to superior training and harder work, or put it down to genetics.

Would you please stop fucking up genetics. Natural aptitude is not by definition genetic. Please learn the difference between phenotype and genotype.

When you distort science, you destroy the best thing mankind has.

384 samgak  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 6:09:56am

re: #383 Obdicut

Would you please stop fucking up genetics. Natural aptitude is not by definition genetic. Please learn the difference between phenotype and genotype.


What do you mean? Phenotype is not “natural aptitude”, because it results from the interaction of genetic and environmental influences, making it part nature, part nurture. “Natural aptitude” is that which we owe to genetic inheritance.

385 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 6:27:03am

re: #384 samgak

What do you mean? Phenotype is not “natural aptitude”, because it results from the interaction of genetic and environmental influences, making it part nature, part nurture. “Natural aptitude” is that which we owe to genetic inheritance.

The creation of proteins from genes depends on environment. A gene may code for something but never get turned on unless the right environmental factors are present for its activation. A human being can’t even exist or survive, the genetic code for a human makes no sense, except in the context of the environment it exists in— such as the genetics of the mitochondria, the genetics of the bacteria in the intestinal system, etc. etc.

So when you talk about a ‘natural aptitude’, you have to be talking about the phenotype, because the genotype is not something that interacts with the real world. Only phenotype actually exists, in terms of behavior, in terms of aptitude.

Please look at the comment I am actually responding to:


Natural aptitude is by definition genetic. There’s only two choices: put it down to superior training and harder work, or put it down to genetics.

That is completely wrong. There are not only two choices. There are not two choices as to why we have such longer lives than humans in 1850— it’s not because of harder work or ‘superior training’— it’s because of massive improvements in our environment.

Any study of a comparatively unhealthy population, especially an unhealthy and stressed primate population, will show that they perform worst on almost all tests of functionality than a genetically similar population that’s healthier and less stressed. The largest stressor available for primates is social ranking.

So, when comparing a healthy, well-fed, well-nurtured, kid to a kid with chronic asthma who’s experienced periodic episodes of hunger and malnutrition, who has chronically high cortisol levels from low social ranking, the first kid is going to outperform the second kid even if they are genetically identical.

So to say that a difference in achievement between two individuals has to either be genetic or ‘hard work and training’ is completely goddamn wrong.

386 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 6:46:22am

re: #85 Jadespring

I think I’m going to put in my will that I want t-shirts given out at my service.
Everyone can use a new t-shirt.

Have to think what I want put on them though.

“See I told you I was sick!” is always a good standard.

387 Yashmak  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 7:03:34am

My response when first reading that article on her site was “Really? A whole article expressing outrage over BLUE SIGNS?!?”

And just a day after all these articles there about how wrong the left was to point fingers at the right over the shootings. My irony meter was pinned.

388 samgak  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 7:06:51am

re: #385 Obdicut

The creation of proteins from genes depends on environment. A gene may code for something but never get turned on unless the right environmental factors are present for its activation. A human being can’t even exist or survive, the genetic code for a human makes no sense, except in the context of the environment it exists in— such as the genetics of the mitochondria, the genetics of the bacteria in the intestinal system, etc. etc.


Yes, that’s all true.

So when you talk about a ‘natural aptitude’, you have to be talking about the phenotype, because the genotype is not something that interacts with the real world. Only phenotype actually exists, in terms of behavior, in terms of aptitude.


No, when you talk about “natural aptitude” you are talking about the variation between individuals that can be attributed to genetics, as opposed to that which can be attributed to environmental variation. Otherwise the nature vs nurture distinction is incoherent.

Please look at the comment I am actually responding to:

That is completely wrong. There are not only two choices. There are not two choices as to why we have such longer lives than humans in 1850— it’s not because of harder work or ‘superior training’— it’s because of massive improvements in our environment.


Reducing it to hard work/superior training is an over-simplification, but “massive improvements in our environment” are clearly not changes to “natural aptitude”, they are changes to environment.

Any study of a comparatively unhealthy population, especially an unhealthy and stressed primate population, will show that they perform worst on almost all tests of functionality than a genetically similar population that’s healthier and less stressed. The largest stressor available for primates is social ranking.

So, when comparing a healthy, well-fed, well-nurtured, kid to a kid with chronic asthma who’s experienced periodic episodes of hunger and malnutrition, who has chronically high cortisol levels from low social ranking, the first kid is going to outperform the second kid even if they are genetically identical.

So to say that a difference in achievement between two individuals has to either be genetic or ‘hard work and training’ is completely goddamn wrong.


If a child is well-fed, has all the advantages of high social ranking etc, and performs well at a task, that is clearly not an expression of “natural aptitude” but an example of environmental advantage. Diet etc falls under “training”.

389 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 7:16:17am

re: #388 samgak

No, when you talk about “natural aptitude” you are talking about the variation between individuals that can be attributed to genetics, as opposed to that which can be attributed to environmental variation. Otherwise the nature vs nurture distinction is incoherent.

The nature vs. nurture distinction is incoherent. It is 17th century philosophy. It doesn’t have anything to do with actual reality.

If a child is well-fed, has all the advantages of high social ranking etc, and performs well at a task, that is clearly not an expression of “natural aptitude” but an example of environmental advantage. Diet etc falls under “training”.

And does lower cortisol levels somehow fall under ‘training’ as well?

What I am saying is that the expression “Either genetics, or hard work/training” entirely leaves out the question of environment, which is stupid as hell.

390 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 7:35:58am

re: #85 Jadespring

I think I’m going to put in my will that I want t-shirts given out at my service.
Everyone can use a new t-shirt.

Have to think what I want put on them though.

Good idea.

On mine: “To be angered by evil is to partake of it, stupid.”

391 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:05:54am

re: #373 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. I think I can safely say that after the enormous amount of energy and money that went into finding something, ANYTHING awful in Barack Obama’s closet, the horrible truth is that he doesn’t cheat on his taxes or run around with loose women.

This discovery is probably eating some of his less rational detractors alive.

And it shores up his more rational detractors, along with fence sitters who see both pluses and minuses to the man. That side of character does count for something. Turn it around: it’s a bad thing for the nation when the leadership has a pattern and habit of cheating on taxes and buying the company of loose women with the money thus freed up from the clutches of laws that, after all, are for little people. That sort of thing is not just a matter of personal taste. It sets a tone. The various governors, judges, attorneys general, and representatives who break both tax laws and social mores have to be sent packing, which also sets a tone.

392 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:24:04am

re: #383 Obdicut

Would you please stop fucking up genetics. Natural aptitude is not by definition genetic. Please learn the difference between phenotype and genotype.

When you distort science, you destroy the best thing mankind has.

You throw out context and then knock down the straw man. The very meaning of the words “natural aptitude” is a reference to that part of the variation in expressed aptitude that can be attributed to heritable differences, rather than environmental differences.

Rhetorical nitpicking with failure to write a book on the fact that yes, genetics cannot come to anything if there are insufficient phosphorus atoms at hand in the environment to constitute the proteins the genes code for is no real argument.

The populations we’re talking about—-East Asians living in the U.S., for instance, are not plagued by disease, beaten, stressed beyond all normal bounds, etc. Neither is the reference population, their white neighbors attending the same schools.

The possible confounding factors you bring up are not at work in the case at hand, not systematically and massively.

What is at work, systematically, is crude and unworthy denigration. I’m not “fucking” with science when I say that this performance of East Asians really has to come down to some mix of hard work and training on the one hand, and genetic factors, on the other. When food is sufficient, differences in diet are part of “training”, that is, how your culture teaches you to eat, and “hard work”, that is, how you yourself choose, or don’t choose, healthy eating habits. When stressors aren’t severe and systematically different between test population and reference population, differences in stress responses again come down to cultural-educational aspects, and genetic factors. It may be that “meditation” effectively reduces stress, and that East Asians are taught meditation. If so, that’s part of their “training”.

393 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:33:35am

re: #392 lostlakehiker

The very meaning of the words “natural aptitude” is a reference to that part of the variation in expressed aptitude that can be attributed to heritable differences, rather than environmental differences.

Again: This does not make sense. You don’t understand what is meant by ‘enviornment’. You really don’t have a good grasp of modern genetics at all. Please read my #388 for a better understanding of why your statement:


Natural aptitude is by definition genetic. There’s only two choices: put it down to superior training and harder work, or put it down to genetics.

Is absolutely fucking wrong.

Two genetically identical children will perform different in different environments, even if the ‘hard work and training’ part of those environments are the same.

Please, please read The Extended Phenotype.

And read Sapolsky, while you’re at it. MonkeyLuv, and Primate’s Memoir. Why on earth you think stressors would be similar between, say, the American black population and American East Asian population, I have no fucking clue.

394 Peter Kaufman  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:35:34am
“odds of involvement by Axelrod/Plouffe & Co. are high.”

No, the chances are high. High odds means a low probability.

She’s not only venal, but an idiot.

395 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 9:13:16am

Hell, the social stressor part is so fucking huge that it can affect test scores just by asking the student to self-identify:

icos.groups.si.umich.edu

Asians in Canada, where there isn’t this stereotype of high mathematical performance that we have in the US, don’t show any benefit from self-identifying as Asians when taking tests— in the US, they do.

Study 2 examined the hypothesis that it is the stereotype associated with an identity (i.e. Asians are talented at math.) and not the identity itself (i.e. Asian) that drives this performance differential. In order to do this, we replicated the study in a second culture where different stereotypes were associated with these same identities: Vancouver, Canada, where the Asian community is largely a recently immigrated one. A questionnaire designed to examine prevailing ethnic and gender stereotypes confirmed that in Vancouver there is less of a stereotype that Asians have superior quantitative skills compared to other ethnic groups. We compared American and Canadian stereotypes for Asians being quantitatively gifted and found that the stereotype prevailed more in America than in Canada (t (81) = 2.07, p

396 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 9:35:58am
Stereotype threat is when a person who belongs to a group that has a negative stereotype attached to it subconsciously conforms to the negative stereotype by performing a task to a lesser degree than they would otherwise. For example: black people have the “less intelligent” stereotype attached to them, so a black person might perform poorly on an IQ test. If said person was either unaware of the stereotype or knew the stereotype to be wrong (stereotype threat is not present) then they would perform better.

Stereotype threat “is a disruptive concern, when facing a negative stereotype, that one will be evaluated based on this stereotype.” [1] One published meta-analysis conducted by Walton & Spencer (2009) found significant evidence that stereotype threat impairs the standardized test performances of African Americans and women on the SAT.[2]

en.wikipedia.org

By far, the best predictor of how well someone is going to do on a standardized test is the income level of their parents.

397 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 9:38:03am

re: #396 Talking Point Detective

If you’re interested in this kinda thing, take a look at the paper I referenced above. Really good idea of theirs to compare the Asian Vancouver population with a US population.

398 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 9:38:41am

re: #382 samgak

Contemporary “scientific racists” generally do not advocate for the extermination of groups they claim have lower average IQs.

Do you seriously believe that there aren’t cultural biases inherent in IQ tests, or that you can eliminate all the effects of environmental influence on racial/ethnic differences in test results?

399 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 9:44:12am

re: #397 Obdicut

If you’re interested in this kinda thing, take a look at the paper I referenced above. Really good idea of theirs to compare the Asian Vancouver population with a US population.

My work is with minority students and international students in American academic settings.

I’ll take a look at your link - but it is something I’m already pretty familiar with.

The thing that kills me is that many of the Asian graduate students I work with would score off the charts on IQ tests - but generally speaking - suck at tasks that require creative or divergent thinking. The whole notion of IQ is so pathetically biased.

400 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 9:54:03am

re: #392 lostlakehiker

I’m not “fucking” with science when I say that this performance of East Asians really has to come down to some mix of hard work and training on the one hand, and genetic factors, on the other. When food is sufficient, differences in diet are part of “training”, that is, how your culture teaches you to eat, and “hard work”, that is, how you yourself choose, or don’t choose, healthy eating habits. When stressors aren’t severe and systematically different between test population and reference population, differences in stress responses again come down to cultural-educational aspects, and genetic factors. It may be that “meditation” effectively reduces stress, and that East Asians are taught meditation. If so, that’s part of their “training”.

Are you aware of how many Asians completely game standardized tests in their manner of study? The ETS had to disallow massive amounts of test results in China because the scores basically had no real correlation with testees’ knowledge. In a sense, that is a reflection of training - but then again, the criteria your using for measure are invalid.

Is an African sailor who can navigate the skies by virtue integrating myriad variables (the feel of the wind, the motion of the ocean, the color of the sky), but who scores poorly on an IQ test more or less intelligent - by virtue of his “natural aptitude” - than some kid born into a family where their college professor parents read to them an our each night from the time they’re an infant?

What is that “natural aptitude” of a kid growing up in the ghetto who can fool you into emptying your wallet in a game of three-card Monty - but is illiterate and scores poorly on an IQ test because he was malnourished as a child?

How do you measure the IQ of someone who grew up in a culture where there is no written form of their language?

By what means are you confident that IQ tests are actually a measure of “natural aptitude” in anything other than taking IQ tests?

401 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:06:05am

re: #392 lostlakehiker

You throw out context and then knock down the straw man. The very meaning of the words “natural aptitude” is a reference to that part of the variation in expressed aptitude that can be attributed to heritable differences, rather than environmental differences.

I’d say you’re creating a false dichotomy.

Even if, theoretically, you could create some environment where all environmental influences are eliminated, the impracticality of creating such an environment makes the discussion irrelevant to a discussion of something as environmentally influenced, by very definition, as an “Asian American.” I mean seriously, how is culturally defined concept such as “Asian-American” not a function of environmental influences?

And even further, even if your construct was valid - how is it instructive to the real world? As someone mentioned above - you have to consider how “averaging” is a part of this discussion. Can you look at any individual, and with any degree of practical confidence, change how you deal with him/her on the basis of your assessment of their IQ based on some loosely defined genetic origination?

What is the meaning of your argument? Is it purely an interest in some abstract scientific concept that has no practical application, or, is it because there is some other benefit to ranking ethnicities on the basis of culturally biased criteria?

402 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:08:06am

re: #385 Obdicut

Great post.

403 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:34:27am

re: #253 marjoriemoon

Actually it was. And the president doesn’t hold grudges.


No - I’m afraid it wasn’t. That was Arizona State University in Tempe. I know because I graduated from there and was embarassed by their behavior. Somehow Joe Torrre deserved one but the first African-American president did not.

404 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:37:31am

re: #403 leftynyc


I see you corrected the record already. My apologies. I should have finished reading the comments.

405 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:43:42am

re: #393 Obdicut

Again: This does not make sense. You don’t understand what is meant by ‘enviornment’. You really don’t have a good grasp of modern genetics at all. Please read my #388 for a better understanding of why your statement:

Is absolutely fucking wrong.

Two genetically identical children will perform different in different environments, even if the ‘hard work and training’ part of those environments are the same.

Please, please read The Extended Phenotype.

And read Sapolsky, while you’re at it. MonkeyLuv, and Primate’s Memoir. Why on earth you think stressors would be similar between, say, the American black population and American East Asian population, I have no fucking clue.


You’re right about having no clue, but you’re still playing the same old game of setting up and knocking down straw men. I said nothing, nothing at all, about the American black population and the stresses it faces.

I did not say, nor do I think, that the points I’m making in the context of East Asians and whites carry over nicely to this other and quite different setting.

“Environment” is every last thing outside the genes themselves, starting from the rest of the cell and working out. OK? But in this question, a great many aspects of environment are quite similar. Access to food is sufficient. Standing in the culture is broadly similar. Disease isn’t any big problem.

East Asians are not suffering from “low social rank”, not to an extent that would mess up their scores. The whites to whom they’re compared in these statistics aren’t either. For purposes of THIS QUESTION, why do East Asians do so well, the environmental contribution is not so fraught as it is in the case you, not I, brought in.

The environmental side of the coin really does, IN THIS CASE, consist primarily in differences in “training”, which would include all aspects of home culture, and differences in how hard the kid works.


And while we’re at it, you’re right that given sufficiently different conditions, identical twins separated at birth will perform differently. But such “sufficiently different” conditions are simply not found in the real world on any large scale, not when we’re talking East Asians and whites. Adoption generally places children in decent homes. The adoptive parents generally have sufficient income to buy their adopted children everything that’s really necessary to thrive, and they generally give them time and attention. After that, it doesn’t work out in practice that being raised in France, or Ohio, or California, makes much difference. Identical twins test scores correlate strongly with each other, and not so much with the scores of their adoptive siblings.

406 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 10:49:42am

re: #405 lostlakehiker

And while we’re at it, you’re right that given sufficiently different conditions, identical twins separated at birth will perform differently. But such “sufficiently different” conditions are simply not found in the real world on any large scale, not when we’re talking East Asians and whites.

You really don’t think, that if you want to conduct a scientific analysis of environmental influence on intelligence, you need to control for all sorts of variables as long as you’re looking at identical twins where they’re both raised in white, middle-class families, let alone raised in middle-class families from different cultures?

Seriously?

407 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:16:57am

re: #323 ClaudeMonet

Oh boy, I hope we don’t have anyone from ASU or U of A around. Confusing the two schools is tantamount to treason in Arizona.

Too late ;-).

408 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:18:04am

re: #324 Mr.Boots

I’m sorry to hear that. My sister is fighting breast cancer for the second time. It has spread everywhere and the outcome is not in doubt. Her time remaining on Earth is short, but we still speak of the future because there is always hope.


I’m so sorry about your sister. You both will be in prayers.

409 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:18:40am

re: #405 lostlakehiker

You’re right about having no clue, but you’re still playing the same old game of setting up and knocking down straw men. I said nothing, nothing at all, about the American black population and the stresses it faces.

That is immaterial. You’re talking about Asians scoring highly; their high scores are relative.

I did not say, nor do I think, that the points I’m making in the context of East Asians and whites carry over nicely to this other and quite different setting.

In other words, you didn’t bother reading the study on Asians in Vancouver.

East Asians are not suffering from “low social rank”, not to an extent that would mess up their scores.

No, they have higher social rank with regards to mathematics. That’s the goddamn point.


“Environment” is every last thing outside the genes themselves, starting from the rest of the cell and working out. OK? But in this question, a great many aspects of environment are quite similar. Access to food is sufficient. Standing in the culture is broadly similar. Disease isn’t any big problem.

Please, please read the Vancouver study I linked above. Just read something, instead of merely trying to reason from stereotypes.

The environmental side of the coin really does, IN THIS CASE, consist primarily in differences in “training”, which would include all aspects of home culture, and differences in how hard the kid works.

No, it doesn’t. A kid who has chronic asthma from living in a polluted area really is different from a kid who doesn’t have asthma. A kid who’s malnourished does not have as good memory retention. It’s simply true.

Can you please explain, in your genetic deterministic world, why Asians in Vancouver don’t show the same ‘natural ability’ in math? Do you think they have a vastly different culture for some reason?

For purposes of THIS QUESTION, why do East Asians do so well, the environmental contribution is not so fraught as it is in the case you, not I, brought in.

Please back this up with an actual argument, rather than just assertions.

IN THIS CASE, consist primarily in differences in “training”, which would include all aspects of home culture, and differences in how hard the kid works.

Heh. Nice backpedal— so now ‘training’ includes everything happening in the home. At least you’re starting to realize how many factors you have to consider. Try thinking more on why you had to expand your definition of ‘training’, and think about what else it has to be expanded to. For example, the amount of resources invested in the child— do you think that might differ between the populations?

410 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:24:05am

re: #377 SanFranciscoZionist

I never liked Nancy Reagan. She adored her Ronnie, but I always had the feeling she’d like to see the rest of us shot.

Barbara, Hillary, Laura, Michelle—no complaints.


I didn’t like Nancy when Ronnie was President but came to appreciate her later. She handled his Alzheimers with grace and dignity and while I realize she could afford a lot of help the reality is that many would still put their spouses in a home. When she broke down at his funeral, I cried like a baby and since then, I’ve really appreciated her speaking out abut stem cell research. Barbara is the one I have no use for.

411 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:24:19am

re: #400 Talking Point Detective

Everything below is a mix of a quote of your post, interspersed with my answers.

You: Are you aware of how many Asians completely game standardized tests in their manner of study? The ETS had to disallow massive amounts of test results in China because the scores basically had no real correlation with testees’ knowledge. In a sense, that is a reflection of training - but then again, the criteria your using for measure are invalid.

Me: I can believe that the ETS found discrepancies between test scores and knowledge. My guess is those discrepancies would largely evaporate if the tests were retaken in a tightly controlled setting.

There are tightly controlled settings which require divergent thinking in which East Asians do very well. Take a look at the results of the last few decades on the William Lowell Putnam mathematical competition, for example.

You: Is an African sailor who can navigate the skies by virtue integrating myriad variables (the feel of the wind, the motion of the ocean, the color of the sky), but who scores poorly on an IQ test more or less intelligent - by virtue of his “natural aptitude” - than some kid born into a family where their college professor parents read to them an our each night from the time they’re an infant?

Me: huh? I wasn’t talking about the wider scene, which is of course much more complicated than comparison of East Asians to whites in the context of generally similar nutritional resources and on tasks that both cultures teach. But OK, I’ll venture an answer: navigation by gut reckoning is a very heavily intelligence-laden task. Hats off to anybody who can do it.

You: What is that “natural aptitude” of a kid growing up in the ghetto who can fool you into emptying your wallet in a game of three-card Monty - but is illiterate and scores poorly on an IQ test because he was malnourished as a child?

Me: I know better than to play 3 card Monty. As to IQ tests, they have limited validity. If the question is who can be trained, by standard methods in a limited time, to this or that Army specialty, they’re not a bad indicator. Training involves reading manuals. Performing the task for which one is trained will again require reading manuals. If the test shows that the person can’t read, then whatever the reason for that inability, the test is going to validly predict that the person won’t do well in training.

If the question is, who would have been trainable had things gone differently during childhood, oh dear. No IQ test can help much with that. Way too much water under the bridge to say.

You: How do you measure the IQ of someone who grew up in a culture where there is no written form of their language?

Me: There are tests that involve no reading or writing. I’m not a professional in psychometrics, and I don’t know how well regarded these are in the profession. I don’t know what sort of real-world tasks they’ve been validated on either. Or how one might go about validating them.

You: By what means are you confident that IQ tests are actually a measure of “natural aptitude” in anything other than taking IQ tests?

Me: There’s a lot more to natural aptitude than IQ. IQ tests are at best a measure of aptitude for the kinds of tasks for which the tests have been validated. On the other hand, IQ tests do have some validity. People who score higher are more likely to catch on at real world tasks such as reading a map, solving an equation, or maintaining an engine. The military has established this much, in controlled studies.

The tests are not nearly as good in predicting who will exhibit true genius in some field. They’re attuned to the difference between bright normal, normal, and dull normal, and they don’t pick up guys like Watson. Nor do they pick up personality disorders. The Unabomber had a high IQ, but that alone did not propel him up the ladder of success. Skill in mathematics, hunting and gathering, and construction of home-made bombs…sigh.

412 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:25:43am

re: #411 lostlakehiker

Why on earth do you believe the military tests to be so great? You bring them up over and over again— can you explain your fascination with them?

413 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:42:21am

re: #411 lostlakehiker


Take a look at the results of the last few decades on the William Lowell Putnam mathematical competition, for example.

That is a culturally biased means of measuring creativity and divergent thinking. Go to Korea and ask a room full of highly successful math students, with high IQs, to do an open-ended, non math-related task in front of their peers where the probability of failure is high and where the task requires them to contradict conventional wisdom.

How do you think that might compare to the results with “lower IQ” American students?

My guess (after years of working with such students), is that they would not do well, comparatively.

If the question is who can be trained, by standard methods in a limited time, to this or that Army specialty, they’re not a bad indicator. Training involves reading manuals. Performing the task for which one is trained will again require reading manuals.

IQ tests might be valid as a predictor for some outcomes - but the point I’m making is that the choice of outcomes being measured reflects cultural bias.


Me: There are tests that involve no reading or writing. I’m not a professional in psychometrics, and I don’t know how well regarded these are in the profession. I don’t know what sort of real-world tasks they’ve been validated on either. Or how one might go about validating them.

Let’s take another example - where the testee has never had any experience resembling the test-taking environment. And neither has either of his/her parents, or grandparents. How do you control for environmental influence when compare that individual’s test results with those of someone who spent their early environment being quizzed about their answers to abstract questions, asked by parents and grandparents with Masters degrees?

Me: There’s a lot more to natural aptitude than IQ.

So the, how are you measuring aptitude? Are you measuring it in some way that is generalizable beyond the specific task of the test at hand?

IQ tests are at best a measure of aptitude for the kinds of tasks for which the tests have been validated. On the other hand, IQ tests do have some validity. People who score higher are more likely to catch on at real world tasks such as reading a map, solving an equation, or maintaining an engine. The military has established this much, in controlled studies.

Again - IQ tests reflect cultural bias; you are saying that they are a predictor for performance on related tasks. Reading a map is a “real world” task for some people - but not for someone in a canoe in the ocean who navigates by analyzing myriad, and incredibly complicated variables, but has never looked at a map in his/her life and neither has any of his/her ancestors.

414 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:45:42am

A little Googling turned up this link.

I haven’t had time to look at it extensively - but I found it to be an interesting overview.

wilderdom.com

415 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 11:57:19am

re: #409 Obdicut

That is immaterial. You’re talking about Asians scoring highly; their high scores are relative.

In other words, you didn’t bother reading the study on Asians in Vancouver.

No, they have higher social rank with regards to mathematics. That’s the goddamn point.

Please, please read the Vancouver study I linked above. Just read something, instead of merely trying to reason from stereotypes.

No, it doesn’t. A kid who has chronic asthma from living in a polluted area really is different from a kid who doesn’t have asthma. A kid who’s malnourished does not have as good memory retention. It’s simply true.

Can you please explain, in your genetic deterministic world, why Asians in Vancouver don’t show the same ‘natural ability’ in math? Do you think they have a vastly different culture for some reason?

Please back this up with an actual argument, rather than just assertions.

Heh. Nice backpedal— so now ‘training’ includes everything happening in the home. At least you’re starting to realize how many factors you have to consider. Try thinking more on why you had to expand your definition of ‘training’, and think about what else it has to be expanded to. For example, the amount of resources invested in the child— do you think that might differ between the populations?

Again, you bring up asthma and malnutrition. I hold that these are not significantly different between East Asians and their white compeers going to the same schools in America. And not, on a demographically significant scale, a real impediment in either case. Unless you include overnutrition in malnutrition, which I don’t think you meant to do.

As to resources invested in the child, is training not a resource invested in the child? Of course there are real cultural differences. These can, and probably do, include differences in what children are encouraged to work at. Those cultural differences would then translate into actual differences in work effort, and—-there we are. He who works harder learns more.

I do not believe that white children in Seattle suffer cortisol disorders as a result of being stereotyped as inferior to Asians at math. I don’t think you believe that either. That kind of stress, that tears at the brain and the body, is no explanatory factor for the difference in Asian and white math test scores in Seattle.

If indeed there is a big difference in the white-Asian math test score gap between Seattle and Vancouver, that’s something I should read about. I’m perfectly willing to believe that whites in Vancouver are set higher expectations by their culture and their schools than their counterparts in Seattle, and that as a result they work harder, and as a result of that, they learn more.

I’m even willing to believe that being reminded ahead of time of which race you are a member of affects your zeal come test time. Coaches routinely attempt to fire up their players by use of team membership inspirational talk, and they wouldn’t do that if it never worked. And it could be it works better if the team already has a tradition of winning. But now I need to go read your Vancouver study.

As to my ‘genetically deterministic world’, nothing in the results you describe from that Vancouver study contradicts my world view, which in any case is not genetically determinist. But I don’t assume that every last thing is cultural.

416 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:04:20pm

re: #415 lostlakehiker

Again, you bring up asthma and malnutrition. I hold that these are not significantly different between East Asians and their white compeers going to the same schools in America.

You mean you assume it.

As to resources invested in the child, is training not a resource invested in the child? Of course there are real cultural differences. These can, and probably do, include differences in what children are encouraged to work at. Those cultural differences would then translate into actual differences in work effort, and—-there we are. He who works harder learns more.

No, you didn’t understand that at all.

The single most biggest indicator of success for children is parental time spent with the child. That’s it. That’s the main ‘resource’— but in addition, there can be spending on extra tutors, lessons, books, etc. These are not just ‘cultural’ attitudes, but real, actual resources.

I do not believe that white children in Seattle suffer cortisol disorders as a result of being stereotyped as inferior to Asians at math.

Please stop trying to talk about the science when you don’t understand it.

You clearly haven’t bothered to read the study I linked posts and posts ago. You don’t have a good knowledge of modern genetics. Yet for some goddamn reason, you feel like you can pontificate on the subject of genetic inheritance’s impact on intelligence and academic performance.

Boggles the goddamn mind.

But I don’t assume that every last thing is cultural.

As opposed to who? Not me.

Please, please do yourself the favor of reading The Extended Phenotype, A Primate’s Memoir, and MonkeyLuv. Please stop with the half-assed science.

417 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:13:32pm

re: #413 Talking Point Detective

That is a culturally biased means of measuring creativity and divergent thinking. Go to Korea and ask a room full of highly successful math students, with high IQs, to do an open-ended, non math-related task in front of their peers where the probability of failure is high and where the task requires them to contradict conventional wisdom.

How do you think that might compare to the results with “lower IQ” American students?

My guess (after years of working with such students), is that they would not do well, comparatively.

IQ tests might be valid as a predictor for some outcomes - but the point I’m making is that the choice of outcomes being measured reflects cultural bias.

Let’s take another example - where the testee has never had any experience resembling the test-taking environment. And neither has either of his/her parents, or grandparents. How do you control for environmental influence when compare that individual’s test results with those of someone who spent their early environment being quizzed about their answers to abstract questions, asked by parents and grandparents with Masters degrees?

So the, how are you measuring aptitude? Are you measuring it in some way that is generalizable beyond the specific task of the test at hand?

Again - IQ tests reflect cultural bias; you are saying that they are a predictor for performance on related tasks. Reading a map is a “real world” task for some people - but not for someone in a canoe in the ocean who navigates by analyzing myriad, and incredibly complicated variables, but has never looked at a map in his/her life and neither has any of his/her ancestors.

Are you referring to the Polynesians? They hold the record for greatest distances navigated without the aid of reading and writing. If so, there is the matter of “stick charts”. A map, of sorts.

IQ tests are designed to test likely aptitude for the tasks that matter to those giving the test. Go figure. The test doesn’t inquire into divergent thinking because army instructors and school teachers aren’t looking for divergent thinking. IQ tests aren’t a ‘culturally biased means of measuring creativity and divergent thinking’, because they aren’t any means whatever for measuring that. Far less are they measures of who will stand up to peer pressure. I’ll second your prediction that Korean kids in a Korean school will be slow to speak in a setting where the risk of getting it wrong is high and the answer requires out-of-the-box thinking. I too have seen something of the world. Japanese schools are even now working on some reforms to address this state of affairs.

418 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:15:24pm

re: #412 Obdicut

Why on earth do you believe the military tests to be so great? You bring them up over and over again— can you explain your fascination with them?

Because they’ve been validated. Debunks the talking point that IQ tests only test skill at taking IQ tests.

419 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:17:16pm

re: #418 lostlakehiker

“validated” how?

420 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:51:38pm

re: #395 Obdicut

Hell, the social stressor part is so fucking huge that it can affect test scores just by asking the student to self-identify:

[Link: icos.groups.si.umich.edu…]

Asians in Canada, where there isn’t this stereotype of high mathematical performance that we have in the US, don’t show any benefit from self-identifying as Asians when taking tests— in the US, they do.

That study said nothing about social stressors. Nothing.

Good grief.

The study is about mindset while taking the test. There’s no mention of “stress”. The word isn’t to be found in the document, nor any synonym.

The authors themselves speculate on the probability that in an unstructured test setting, subjects would prime themselves optimally, rather than allow other mind sets to drift in on them.

This skill is taught little children in nursery rhymes. I think I can I think I can.

421 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 12:55:29pm

re: #420 lostlakehiker

That study said nothing about social stressors. Nothing.

Can you define what a social stressor is?

This skill is taught little children in nursery rhymes. I think I can I think I can.

Yes, yes it is. Wow— imagine that. Something that affects performance on tests that’s not either “Hard work and training “or “genetics”.

Fucking amazing.

422 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 1:06:21pm

re: #419 Obdicut

“validated” how?

Giving the training to the whole sample rather than just to those who tested high enough that the training was deemed likely to be effective.

Don’t tell the instructor—-he doesn’t know who has what test score.

Check the results of the training, as measured by the standard Army methods for determining who has successfully completed training, against the prediction of the test.

How else would you validate?

423 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 1:12:38pm

re: #422 lostlakehiker

Do you understand that’s a circular system?

That system tests people to see how well they can be trained by that system. That’s all. It doesn’t say how they’d perform under different ‘training’.

Do you understand that you’ve already conceded that you were wrong to say that differences could only be explained through hard work and training, or genetics?

424 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 1:32:21pm

re: #423 Obdicut

Do you understand that’s a circular system?

That system tests people to see how well they can be trained by that system. That’s all. It doesn’t say how they’d perform under different ‘training’.

Do you understand that you’ve already conceded that you were wrong to say that differences could only be explained through hard work and training, or genetics?

It’s not circular at all. The Army has its training system. The question is, does this test correlate reasonably well with actual success in training, well enough that it would save time and effort, given that good trainers are in limited supply, to send their way only those with the higher probability of success? The answer turned out to be “yes”.

Hard work and training compass parental investment. The time that parents put into their children, time spent playing word games, logic puzzles, what-if questions, and on and on, is part of training. The kids’ attention to those things is part of hard work, even if it can also be fun. Work includes work that’s fun to do, after all.

Any two or three word phrase is bound to be a shorthand. So what? The point remains: education, home culture, parental investment, instilled attitudes of `can do’, all these are part of “hard work and training”. As regards Americans, whites and East Asians, the other environmental inputs are not systematically all that different. The two populations both have access to sufficient food. If marriages are not as stable among whites, that manifests itself primarily though less parental investment, i.e. less of the schooling that takes place at home. Asthma rates are not high enough in either population, or that much different from the one to the other, to be much of an explanation of anything.

The primary difference between the environmental component of realized ability in these two populations does come down to differences in the amount of time and effort, at home and at school, that are devoted to the child’s progress, both from parents/relatives, and from the student him/her self.

In short, I was basically right.

425 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 1:37:58pm

re: #424 lostlakehiker

It’s not circular at all. The Army has its training system. The question is, does this test correlate reasonably well with actual success in training, well enough that it would save time and effort, given that good trainers are in limited supply, to send their way only those with the higher probability of success? The answer turned out to be “yes”.

You’re not understanding the question, then. What you have just described is circular.

Hard work and training compass parental investment.

Yeah, you have a hard time admitting when you said something wrong. I understand. But no, hard work and ‘training’ do not compass parental investment. Parental involvement doesn’t necessarily involve any training whatsoever.

Any two or three word phrase is bound to be a shorthand. So what?

So don’t use shorthand to describe complex scientific subjects.

As regards Americans, whites and East Asians, the other environmental inputs are not systematically all that different. The two populations both have access to sufficient food. If marriages are not as stable among whites, that manifests itself primarily though less parental investment, i.e. less of the schooling that takes place at home. Asthma rates are not high enough in either population, or that much different from the one to the other, to be much of an explanation of anything.

Mind showing me your research on this subject?

In short, I was basically right.

You realize you don’t get to judge that, right?


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