Vatican Instructed Irish Bishops Not to Report Abuse

ReligionJanuary 2011 • Views: 21,127

A 1997 letter from the Vatican to Ireland’s Catholic bishops has surfaced, confirming what has been obvious for quite some time — that the Catholic Church’s world-wide cover-up of child molestation by priests went all the way to the top.

(AP)� DUBLIN - A newly revealed 1997 letter from the Vatican warned Ireland’s Catholic bishops not to report all suspected child-abuse cases to police — a disclosure that victims groups described as “the smoking gun” needed to show that the Vatican enforced a worldwide culture of cover-up.

The letter, obtained by Irish broadcasters RTE and provided to The Associated Press, documents the Vatican’s rejection of a 1996 Irish church initiative to begin helping police identify pedophile priests following Ireland’s first wave of publicly disclosed lawsuits.

The letter undermines persistent Vatican claims, particularly when seeking to defend itself in U.S. lawsuits, that the church in Rome never instructed local bishops to withhold evidence or suspicion of crimes from police. It instead emphasizes the church’s right to handle all child-abuse allegations, and determine punishments, in house rather than hand that power to civil authorities.

Jump to bottom

106 comments

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jan 18, 2011 1:59:30pm

This is especially aggravating in light of the Vatican’s frequent claims, early on in the abuse scandal, that the abuse was a problem with the American church and that it was due to the American Catholic Church’s moving away from Vatican policy.

Then stories started coming out from the rest of the world. Then we find out that Vatican policy was a coverup. This really seems like, now, they’ve been simply lying. Not just telling a different narrative with a different perspective, but just flat out lying.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 18, 2011 1:59:58pm

This should induce another rant by Alex Jones on how the CPS is no different.

Kid Skeeter Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:01:03pm

The letter undermines persistent Vatican claims, particularly when seeking to defend itself in U.S. lawsuits, that the church in Rome never instructed local bishops to withhold evidence or suspicion of crimes from police. It instead emphasizes the church’s right to handle all child-abuse allegations, and determine punishments, in house rather than hand that power to civil authorities.

Because we can’t let the cops get involved. Brilliant. ## hand covers mouth in disbelief of arrogance ##

Big Steve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:01:15pm

but…….John Paul II is a saint……..

freetoken Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:05:07pm

I wonder if any of the RC hierarchy here in the US will ever face obstruction of justice charges? Or at least charged with conspiring to obstruct justice, if at least it could be shown that senior leaders were trying to prevent evidence from surfacing.

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:05:22pm

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:06:11pm

re: #1 Obdicut

This is especially aggravating in light of the Vatican’s frequent claims, early on in the abuse scandal, that the abuse was a problem with the American church and that it was due to the American Catholic Church’s moving away from Vatican policy.

Then stories started coming out from the rest of the world. Then we find out that Vatican policy was a coverup. This really seems like, now, they’ve been simply lying. Not just telling a different narrative with a different perspective, but just flat out lying.

yeah, they are lying…from the outset…they are men of power and can easily be corrupted…God doesn’t figure into the equation….no surprise there

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:07:10pm

re: #4 Big Steve

but…John Paul II is a saint…

pretty sick, eh?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:09:58pm

re: #1 Obdicut

This is especially aggravating in light of the Vatican’s frequent claims, early on in the abuse scandal, that the abuse was a problem with the American church and that it was due to the American Catholic Church’s moving away from Vatican policy.

Then stories started coming out from the rest of the world. Then we find out that Vatican policy was a coverup. This really seems like, now, they’ve been simply lying. Not just telling a different narrative with a different perspective, but just flat out lying.

To be honest, child sexual abuse cases in the catholic church have a long, long history (and the history of reproting on those cases regrettably also often conflated with anti-catholicism and just made-up stuff).

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:10:03pm

I’d love to see the Vatican surrounded by yellow crime scene tape…so how do you stop and punish this insanity?….is everybody afraid to confront the CC?

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:10:51pm

re: #6 brookly red

Are you talking about the creeps who engaged the coverup?

That’s the issue, more than the abuse. It’s the coverup, the lying, the shifting of blame, and the refusal to help solve the problem.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:10:58pm

re: #6 brookly red

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

Statistically, a hard question. Are we including all Catholics in the church, or only clergy? Is there a way to get good statistics on sexual abuse, given that it is by its nature secretive, and culturally variable? Probably not.

However, the Church has consistently, and in cold blood, used its considerable status, power and resources to protect predators, and that is the issue, and that is the problem, as far as I am concerned. They have defied the law of many nations in the process, and gotten away with it, and broken their core commitment to God and the faithful.

(Half my family’s Catholic. I do have a dog in the fight.)

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:11:05pm

re: #6 brookly red

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

This isn’t about the usual random creeps though, it’s about institutional cover-ups at the highest levels.

Big Steve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:11:14pm

re: #10 albusteve

I’d love to see the Vatican surrounded by yellow crime scene tape…so how do you stop and punish this insanity?…is everybody afraid to confront the CC?

can’t happen at the Vatican…..they are a country in of themselves and therefore the church would have to arrest itself.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:11:39pm

re: #14 Big Steve

can’t happen at the Vatican…they are a country in of themselves and therefore the church would have to arrest itself.

really?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:11:44pm

I’m going to start a band called Mister Bentley. We’ll only play Mister Mister songs, but we’ll have obnoxious finishing school ivy-league-snob accents and we’ll all dress like Thurston Howell or something, all millionaire suits and cravats and captain’s hats

Big Steve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:13:01pm

re: #15 albusteve

really?

yep…. World’s Smallest Countries

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:13:23pm

re: #15 albusteve

really?

Yes. Vatican City, specifically. Distinct from the Holy See, btw.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:13:40pm

re: #6 brookly red

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

it is, because no corporation would allow the systemic rape of countless children to go on for this long by their employees

I mean, I’m sure there’s plenty of despots with worse records than the Catholic church, but I’m pretty sure you’re not talking about some banana republic where they govern by machete

garhighway Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:13:44pm

re: #6 brookly red

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

You may be right. But church policy took what might have been a small number of people doing bad things and made the situation much, much worse by covering up wrongdoing and recirculating the molesters into new churches without warning anyone.

Had the church hierarchy behaved as if the well-being of it’s parishioners mattered to them, they would have taken these guys out of circulation. But they held the well-being of the church above that of a bunch of defenseless kids.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:14:05pm

I guess it’s time to invade the Vatican on humanitarian grounds…seize all the docs and arrest everybody inside….this is a world class human rights issue

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:14:38pm

re: #11 Obdicut

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #13 CuriousLurker

OK, I asked… it seemed a bit like bashing to me, but OK I get your point.

Big Steve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:14:45pm

re: #21 albusteve

I guess it’s time to invade the Vatican on humanitarian grounds…seize all the docs and arrest everybody inside…this is a world class human rights issue

Hey Tom Hanks could star in the movie.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:15:02pm

re: #20 garhighway

You may be right. But church policy took what might have been a small number of people doing bad things and made the situation much, much worse by covering up wrongdoing and recirculating the molesters into new churches without warning anyone.

Had the church hierarchy behaved as if the well-being of it’s parishioners mattered to them, they would have taken these guys out of circulation. But they held the well-being of the church above that of a bunch of defenseless kids.

it’d be sorta like if our response to Charles Manson were to arrest him, then immediately put him in charge of an orphanage

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:15:55pm

re: #17 Big Steve

yep… World’s Smallest Countries

I knew that…I jest…we’ve been following this story for a couple of years now and I was spoofing you for stating the obvious….the Vaticans status is common knowledge

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:16:34pm

re: #21 albusteve

I guess it’s time to invade the Vatican on humanitarian grounds…seize all the docs and arrest everybody inside…this is a world class human rights issue

And fight the Swiss Guard?!

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:16:44pm

re: #22 brookly red

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #13 CuriousLurker

OK, I asked… it seemed a bit like bashing to me, but OK I get your point.

Who’s bashing? You asked a serious question, we gave you serious answers.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:16:49pm

re: #25 albusteve

I knew that…I jest…we’ve been following this story for a couple of years now and I was spoofing you for stating the obvious…the Vaticans status is common knowledge

the idea of arresting the pope is awesome

like Joe Friday just barges in

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:17:13pm

re: #27 CuriousLurker

Who’s bashing? You asked a serious question, we gave you serious answers.

as I said…

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:17:39pm

re: #20 garhighway

You may be right. But church policy took what might have been a small number of people doing bad things and made the situation much, much worse by covering up wrongdoing and recirculating the molesters into new churches without warning anyone.

Had the church hierarchy behaved as if the well-being of it’s parishioners mattered to them, they would have taken these guys out of circulation. But they held the well-being of the church above that of a bunch of defenseless kids.

reminds me of the similarities to Watergate, only this crime is far more despicable involving a huge, decades long coverup

garhighway Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:17:49pm

re: #24 WindUpBird

it’d be sorta like if our response to Charles Manson were to arrest him, then immediately put him in charge of an orphanage

Or the Playboy Mansion.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:17:58pm

re: #22 brookly red

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #13 CuriousLurker

OK, I asked… it seemed a bit like bashing to me, but OK I get your point.

catholic church political hierarchy does not equal catholics

Just like politician does not equal citizens.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:18:24pm

re: #28 WindUpBird

the idea of arresting the pope is awesome

like Joe Friday just barges in

book im Danno!

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:18:35pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

catholic church political hierarchy does not equal catholics

Just like politician does not equal citizens.

I hate it when I agree with you…

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:18:49pm

re: #29 brookly red

as I said…

The truth is “bashing!”

Who’s politically correct NOW, Mister Mxyzptlk? :D

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:19:30pm

re: #34 brookly red

I hate it when I agree with you…

it’s a trouble

I’m sure we probably could get along on music! Well some of it ;-)

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:19:54pm

re: #35 WindUpBird

The truth is “bashing!”

Who’s politically correct NOW, Mister Mxyzptlk? :D

sorry, is that a TV reference?

garhighway Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:20:01pm

re: #30 albusteve

reminds me of the similarities to Watergate, only this crime is far more despicable involving a huge, decades long coverup

That’s the infuriating thing. This coverup required literally hundreds of people to behave as if they had no moral compass whatsoever.

Un-fucking-believable.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:21:09pm

re: #37 brookly red

sorry, is that a TV reference?

yeah I know marvel and Dc don’t get along

(I’m still more a marvel guy, gimme New Mutants any day)

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:21:58pm

re: #39 WindUpBird

yeah I know marvel and Dc don’t get along

(I’m still more a marvel guy, gimme New Mutants any day)

OK, now I am officially lost…

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:23:23pm

re: #40 brookly red

OK, now I am officially lost…

OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE

MYTZYLPLYK! The little leprechaun guy who’s always fucking with Superman

Jesus Christ you worked in this industry :D

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:23:30pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

catholic church political hierarchy does not equal catholics

Just like politician does not equal citizens.

no, but the people feeding money to the church should demand these peds be brought to justice…what of the UN or the prosecutors at the Hague?…are they too busy indicting Israel for human rights violations?…the entire gig deserves the maximum derision that can be heaped upon them…they should be relieved that I’m not the boss

abolitionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:23:35pm

There was a movie on the Lifetime channel several years ago that dealt seriously with these issues in the Catholic Church in the US, but I can’t recall the title. Actually, there seem to have been several movies made on this general topic.

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:23:39pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

catholic church political hierarchy does not equal catholics

Just like politician does not equal citizens.

Exactly.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:23:46pm

re: #41 WindUpBird

nobody can spell that right, hahaha

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:24:03pm

re: #42 albusteve

no, but the people feeding money to the church should demand these peds be brought to justice…what of the UN or the prosecutors at the Hague?…are they too busy indicting Israel for human rights violations?…the entire gig deserves the maximum derision that can be heaped upon them…they should be relieved that I’m not the boss

I AGREE ENTIRELY *_*

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:24:15pm

re: #38 garhighway

That’s the infuriating thing. This coverup required literally hundreds of people to behave as if they had no moral compass whatsoever.

Un-fucking-believable.

Actually all too believable. The more people participate, the more it lowers the bar for others participating. And the cover-up is just the last logical step of a corrupt system imploding but wanting to protect itself along the way. See Sonderaktion 1005 for an example of that sort of “unbelievableness” (sorry for the Godwin).

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:24:20pm

re: #41 WindUpBird

OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE

MYTZYLPLYK! The little leprechaun guy who’s always fucking with Superman

Jesus Christ you worked in this industry :D

a. long ago
b. it was just a job

webevintage Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:25:08pm

re: #6 brookly red

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

No…they have just done a piss poor job in some areas of dealing with the issue and in many actually enabling the abusers to go on abusing under the misguided notice of showing mercy.
Being party to an occasion of sin is as bad as committing the sin oneself.

In the end what they have done is so horrible to the children and their families and the Church itself, but the Priests they sought to protect.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:25:22pm

re: #42 albusteve

You do gotta wonder, if it was found out that a government that was a member of the UN was doing what the church did, coverup wise, what the UN would do

in contrast to the nothing they’re doing about it now

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:25:31pm

re: #48 brookly red

a. long ago
b. it was just a job

le sigh

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:25:49pm

Alright !!
ON A POSITIVE NOTE!!
I STAYED AT A HOLID….

My son informs me he is applying not only to Cornell..
Harvard
Columbia and
Yale by invitation!
and one more I forget…
I think I just pee”d a little…BB Later

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:26:05pm

re: #49 webevintage

No…they have just done a piss poor job in some areas of dealing with the issue and in many actually enabling the abusers to go on abusing under the misguided notice of showing mercy.
Being party to an occasion of sin is as bad as committing the sin oneself.

In the end what they have done is so horrible to the children and their families and the Church itself, but the Priests they sought to protect.

Stop bashing, please. It upsets brookly. //

SpaceJesus Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:29:31pm

let the priests marry you idiots

Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:29:46pm

A leak that everyone can get behind.

I fail to understand why the law has not done more to force the Church’s position. I fail to see why they appear untouchable.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:30:11pm

re: #50 WindUpBird

You do gotta wonder, if it was found out that a government that was a member of the UN was doing what the church did, coverup wise, what the UN would do

in contrast to the nothing they’re doing about it now

everybody is on the take…people are for sale
you wonder why I despise the UN and some of the other institutionalized gangsters running to and fro from one hot spot to the next, lining their pockets…these crimes against children rate just below murder where I come from….walking around posting how stunning the whole thing is, is boring…I want solutions and I want justice…if we can take down entire countries, we could certainly head butt the mighty Vatican….but it doesn’t pay enough….spit

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:30:19pm

re: #53 CuriousLurker

Stop bashing, please. It upsets brookly. //

well you got to (or at least should) see my point, I have about as much insight into the Church as I do into British politics… is it wrong for me to assume that similar abuses occur in other denominations?

Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:30:28pm

Joe Lieberman is bailing on a 4th term.

abolitionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:31:01pm

re: #54 SpaceJesus

let the priests marry you idiots

Needs punctuation, I think. Or not.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:31:58pm

re: #58 Charles

Joe Lieberman is bailing on a 4th term.

good…he served and did the best he knew how…thanks Joe

SpaceJesus Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:32:01pm

re: #59 abolitionist

ambiguity is fun

Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:32:33pm

re: #58 Charles

Joe Lieberman is bailing on a 4th term.

Couldn’t make up his mind who’s side he was on?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:33:05pm

re: #54 SpaceJesus

let the priests marry you idiots

man, no doubt

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:34:11pm

re: #62 ozbloke

Couldn’t make up his mind who’s side he was on?

or perhaps he just did?

SpaceJesus Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:34:35pm

re: #63 WindUpBird

seriously though, it’s fucking weird. i dont care what earth jesus did, you guys arent him. it’s unnatural to be celibate.

Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:34:36pm

re: #64 brookly red

or perhaps he just did?

No one left that he agreed with?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:35:10pm

re: #60 albusteve

good…he served and did the best he knew how…thanks Joe

Music lover that you are, I figure you’d be irritated at his censorship stances ;-)

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:35:21pm

re: #66 ozbloke

No one left that he agreed with?

perhaps…

webevintage Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:35:26pm

I also do not think that most men who did abuse went into the Priesthood because they wanted to be close to kids, I think most of them truly believed that if they became a Priest and tried really hard and prayed enough that God would keep them from doing the horrible things they felt compelled to do.

Also this does not happen anymore.
(well one can never say never since this is an issue involving humans, but the guidelines for the contact between children and the religious or even teachers is just not the same.)
They are not moved around, the police are called.
And the seminaries are doing a much better job of weeding out those who are trying to use a religious calling as a way to hide from their sexual problems.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:36:01pm

re: #66 ozbloke

No one left that he agreed with?

if you need to criticize the man, then do it…there is plenty to say, I’m sure, go for it

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:36:12pm

re: #65 SpaceJesus

seriously though, it’s fucking weird. i dont care what earth jesus did, you guys arent him. it’s unnatural to be celibate.

exactly

you force people to act in ways totally contrary to their nature, they figure out ways around it

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:38:45pm

re: #57 brookly red

well you got to (or at least should) see my point, I have about as much insight into the Church as I do into British politics… is it wrong for me to assume that similar abuses occur in other denominations?

No, it’s not wrong to assume that, and I’m sure if it came to light that similar abuses were being covered up by other groups and/or institutions, then they’d be met with the same response here at LGF.

Do you think I enjoy the numerous daily pages about awful crap that gets perpetrated by Muslims around the world? I can assure you that I don’t. But as long as ALL Muslims aren’t being condemned for the actions of a few, then you’re not going to hear me complaining about “bashing”. See how that works?

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:39:29pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

Music lover that you are, I figure you’d be irritated at his censorship stances ;-)

I was, but I try to give people a break too…I’m no Joe fan but I believe he was more honest than most….in other words, I’m politely saying good riddance… (consider the next chump may be worse yet)

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:41:11pm

re: #72 CuriousLurker

No, it’s not wrong to assume that, and I’m sure if it came to light that similar abuses were being covered up by other groups and/or institutions, then they’d be met with the same response here at LGF.

Do you think I enjoy the numerous daily pages about awful crap that gets perpetrated by Muslims around the world? I can assure you that I don’t. But as long as ALL Muslims aren’t being condemned for the actions of a few, then you’re not going to hear me complaining about “bashing”. See how that works?

funny you should dwell on the word bashing… I said “it seemed like abashing but I see your point”. perhaps you missed that part.

Buck Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:41:31pm

re: #19 WindUpBird

it is, because no corporation would allow the systemic rape of countless children to go on for this long by their employees

The UN?

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:41:55pm

re: #75 Buck

The UN?

ouch.

Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:42:27pm

re: #65 SpaceJesus

seriously though, it’s fucking weird. i dont care what earth jesus did, you guys arent him. it’s unnatural to be celibate.

I was celibate for almost 18 years, of course it ended when I reached college.

brookly red Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:44:18pm

re: #77 Reginald Perrin

I was celibate for almost 18 years, of course it ended when I reached college.

yes, sure it did…

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:44:28pm

so the Vat gets to walk, scott free…seems that’s the consensus…all this shock and dismay and analysis, but no recommendations?…I’ve surfed the web before and cannot find anything relating to the justice side of this story…where is the outrage?, all heaped on some talking head in NYC?….no wonder I’m so fucking cynical and pessimistic

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:47:26pm

re: #74 brookly red

funny you should dwell on the word bashing… I said “it seemed like abashing but I see your point”. perhaps you missed that part.

I miss very little, brookly. I’ve given you two serious answers and now you’re just trying to jerk my chain, so we’re done for today.

Slap Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:48:09pm

re: #6 brookly red

OK, I am a Jew so I got no dog in this fight. Having said that I imagine the law of big numbers says that any group is gonna have some creeps in it… statistically, is the Catholic church a bigger offender than others?

Serious question.

It’s severely complicated.

Top of the list, I’d take a bit of exception to referring to pedophilic child molesters/sexual predators with such an offhand word as “creeps”. That really minimizes things.

But I believe, absolutely, that it’s a bigger problem in the Church than other organizations. Sexual molestation of minors has a multiplication effect — those who are abused endure a far greater likelihood of becoming abusers themselves (a well-known vicious cycle). The systematic, CENTURIES-LONG coverup of these crimes has prevented any meaningful interruption of the cycle of abuse, therefore the problem has grown to proportions that boggle the mind.

I was an (unmolested) altar boy, FWIW. Never saw it, but in retrospect, it was around me.

Buck Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:50:32pm

re: #65 SpaceJesus

seriously though, it’s fucking weird. i dont care what earth jesus did, you guys arent him. it’s unnatural to be celibate.

I don’t think this has anything to do with not being allowed to have sex. Pedophilia is not restricted, or even more common with people who are celibate.

Married or single, sexually active or celibate….

What would go a long way for me is if the Pope announced that sexually harming children is a mortal sin. However, I would also want him to add that not reporting it to authorities was also a mortal sin.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:51:09pm

re: #81 Slap

It’s severely complicated.

Top of the list, I’d take a bit of exception to referring to pedophilic child molesters/sexual predators with such an offhand word as “creeps”. That really minimizes things.

But I believe, absolutely, that it’s a bigger problem in the Church than other organizations. Sexual molestation of minors has a multiplication effect — those who are abused endure a far greater likelihood of becoming abusers themselves (a well-known vicious cycle). The systematic, CENTURIES-LONG coverup of these crimes has prevented any meaningful interruption of the cycle of abuse, therefore the problem has grown to proportions that boggle the mind.

I was an (unmolested) altar boy, FWIW. Never saw it, but in retrospect, it was around me.

‘creeps’ is a relative word…I seriously doubt it’s used to minimize their behavior…that’s a stretch…in fact, they are creeps among other descriptions

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:51:57pm

re: #82 Buck

I don’t think this has anything to do with not being allowed to have sex. Pedophilia is not restricted, or even more common with people who are celibate.

Married or single, sexually active or celibate…

What would go a long way for me is if the Pope announced that sexually harming children is a mortal sin. However, I would also want him to add that not reporting it to authorities was also a mortal sin.

the Pope is a Dope….he’s in on it

Slap Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:53:45pm

re: #83 albusteve

‘creeps’ is a relative word…I seriously doubt it’s used to minimize their behavior…that’s a stretch…in fact, they are creeps among other descriptions

Oh, agreed. It just seems too lightweight, but that’s my own impression of the term and the delivery. I tried to keep the outrage factor low in that sentence….!

It just seems to be similar to calling a murderer a jerk — grammatical style issues.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:56:26pm

re: #82 Buck

It doesn’t have anything to do with celibacy, but it does have something to do with people who are struggling with their sexual desires. If someone knows that they are a pedophile, and they are Catholic, they may have honestly thought that the priesthood was their best hope of controlling their urges. I mean, the Church claims that it can help normal, heterosexual priests rise above their desire; many pedophiles probably hoped that it could do the same for them.

In addition, a pedophile finds it easier to hide in a society where he’s not expected to express a normal sexuality.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 2:58:22pm

re: #86 Obdicut

It doesn’t have anything to do with celibacy, but it does have something to do with people who are struggling with their sexual desires. If someone knows that they are a pedophile, and they are Catholic, they may have honestly thought that the priesthood was their best hope of controlling their urges. I mean, the Church claims that it can help normal, heterosexual priests rise above their desire; many pedophiles probably hoped that it could do the same for them.

In addition, a pedophile finds it easier to hide in a society where he’s not expected to express a normal sexuality.

agreed…and frankly, I’m tired of that old argument about celibacy

hellosnackbar Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:01:47pm

About 18 or so years ago I was at a comedy festival in Kilkenny.
A comedian cracked a joke about paederasty in Ireland to the effect
that it was commonplace amongst the clergy.
I saw him at the bar some time later and asked him whether if he cracked
that joke before he had not been accused of libel.
With a sardonic grin on his face he suggested that any such court case
might expose an almighty bucket of worms.
I was educated in th UK ;and as a catholic in a catholic school run by
the De La Salle brothers.
There was never any outrages of such a nature there(although plenty of
physical violence);otherwise I would have heard about it.

TedStriker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:02:08pm

re: #55 ozbloke

A leak that everyone can get behind.

I fail to understand why the law has not done more to force the Church’s position. I fail to see why they appear untouchable.

Diplomatic immunity, I suppose…

wrenchwench Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:05:19pm

Would this have anything to do with the rush job towards canonizing John Paul II?

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:08:33pm

re: #90 wrenchwench

Would this have anything to do with the rush job towards canonizing John Paul II?

brave question, I wonder

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:18:59pm

re: #73 albusteve

I was, but I try to give people a break too…I’m no Joe fan but I believe he was more honest than most…in other words, I’m politely saying good riddance… (consider the next chump may be worse yet)

hah, I do believe HE believed his rhetoric re: censorship, I don’t think that was an act, so i guess that follows

Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:19:09pm

re: #89 talon_262

Diplomatic immunity, I suppose…

That may be true, if so deport the bastards.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:22:48pm

re: #93 ozbloke

That may be true, if so deport the bastards.

what bastards?…deport from where?

Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:26:41pm

re: #94 albusteve

what bastards?…deport from where?

what bastards?
Any church official that would stand in the way of the law investigating pedophilia.

From where?
Whatever rock they hide under.

albusteve Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:27:35pm

re: #95 ozbloke

what bastards?
Any church official that would stand in the way of the law investigating pedophilia.

From where?
Whatever rock they hide under.

well, okay
sounds like a plan

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 3:59:24pm

re: #50 WindUpBird

You do gotta wonder, if it was found out that a government that was a member of the UN was doing what the church did, coverup wise, what the UN would do

in contrast to the nothing they’re doing about it now

There are governments that are members of the UN that do much worse, and the UN does jack.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 4:04:27pm

re: #69 webevintage

I also do not think that most men who did abuse went into the Priesthood because they wanted to be close to kids, I think most of them truly believed that if they became a Priest and tried really hard and prayed enough that God would keep them from doing the horrible things they felt compelled to do.

Also this does not happen anymore.
(well one can never say never since this is an issue involving humans, but the guidelines for the contact between children and the religious or even teachers is just not the same.)
They are not moved around, the police are called.
And the seminaries are doing a much better job of weeding out those who are trying to use a religious calling as a way to hide from their sexual problems.

I’m sure abuse still happens in the US and Europe, but the situation IN THE US has changed very dramatically in the last thirty years or so. As it has in families as well. There was a time when sexual abuse was not reported, it was not spoken of. That’s less true now.

I am abso-fucking-lutely sure that things in many parts of Africa, Asia, etc., are EXACTLY as they were fifty or a hundred years ago in Europe and the States, and that the Church is doing nothing. I no longer trust the Catholic Church to be on the side of the angels in this area. I hate saying that, but I don’t.

As for the seminaries, a friend of mine applied to a Catholic theology program. Because it was a program designed for seminarians, although it also took lay people, she had to take the battery of psychological tests the guys hoping to enter the priesthood take.

It was a riot. We especially liked the two questions that asked, on a scale of one to ten, how afraid you were of naked women, and of naked men. (Maria said she was not afraid of naked people, and got in. I thought the question was too vague.)

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 4:07:16pm

re: #72 CuriousLurker

No, it’s not wrong to assume that, and I’m sure if it came to light that similar abuses were being covered up by other groups and/or institutions, then they’d be met with the same response here at LGF.

Do you think I enjoy the numerous daily pages about awful crap that gets perpetrated by Muslims around the world? I can assure you that I don’t. But as long as ALL Muslims aren’t being condemned for the actions of a few, then you’re not going to hear me complaining about “bashing”. See how that works?

And there have been bad scandals in other denominations, and other faiths. There’ve been a couple of hair-raising scandals in the Orthodox Jewish community in the last decade, along with cover-ups from bastards who protected everyone but the victim.

But the power and machinery of the Catholic Church is unique in its reach and hierarchical control of its organization, and when heads of yeshivas get caught abusing children, they get charged with crimes, not sent to Rome to think about it.

It’s the operating as though above the law that makes people crazy.

100

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 18, 2011 4:08:26pm

re: #82 Buck

I don’t think this has anything to do with not being allowed to have sex. Pedophilia is not restricted, or even more common with people who are celibate.

Married or single, sexually active or celibate…

What would go a long way for me is if the Pope announced that sexually harming children is a mortal sin. However, I would also want him to add that not reporting it to authorities was also a mortal sin.

I updinged Buck. I’m letting everyone know this, ‘cause the world may be ending shortly.

101

CuriousLurker Tue, Jan 18, 2011 4:18:57pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s the operating as though above the law that makes people crazy.

Agreed 100%.

102

brennus Tue, Jan 18, 2011 5:05:44pm

As a Catholic myself, I am quite ticked at the whole pushing JP2 through. It’s dishonest at best, and intended to make it something you can’t question without challenging doctrine. The worst thing is that a lot of my more active Catholic friends are incapable of registering the fact that this occurred on JP’s watch. That makes him the guy responsible, end of story.

103

Etaoin Shrdlu Tue, Jan 18, 2011 6:44:40pm

Ideally this will open the Church as a whole to liability for damages, rather than letting them have individual dioceses declare bankruptcy to avoid paying claims.

104

theheat Tue, Jan 18, 2011 7:25:52pm

This kind of systematic cover up from the Vatican itself only makes them more loathsome; truly loathsome. For every Catholic going about doing good deeds, or simply minding their own business doing nothing but watching television or mowing the lawn, basically The Boss just shit all over you. And not only have they shit all over you, but they’ve been shitting all over you, and shitting on the victims of abuse, for years, all the while quite literally behaving holier than thou, dispensing advice and proclamations, wagging their fingers, raking in their goddamned money, and banking on your undying support.

In other news: there is no Santa Claus.

105

ClaudeMonet Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:25:55pm

re: #54 SpaceJesus

let the priests marry you idiots

The priests have married many idiots, who in turn have produced more idiots, some of whom become priests.

Actually, IMO the activities of these pedophiles have little to do with sex. It has to do with power, complete and absolute power over young people who can’t fight back and who won’t be believed if they tell; who will be ostracized and their families ostracized if they make any complaint.

106

ClaudeMonet Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:31:50pm

re: #82 Buck

For once, you said something with which I’m in 100% agreement.

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I updinged Buck. I’m letting everyone know this, ‘cause the world may be ending shortly.

Me too.

Spy Mode Auto

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Vatican Instructed Irish Bishops Not to Report Abuse

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud