Glenn Beck Laughs About Death Threats to Academic

The right wing demonization machine fixates on a 78-year old woman
Wingnuts • Views: 36,861

This weekend, the New York Times’ Brian Stelter reported that 78-year old City University of New York professor Frances Fox Piven has been receiving death threats at her website and through email.

The reason for the threats is Glenn Beck’s construction of an elaborate conspiracy theory that casts Piven as one of the nine worst enemies of America and humanity, based on one article she wrote 45 years ago about a radical plan to help poor people — a plan that was never used by anyone.

Piven was a rather obscure academic until Glenn Beck singled her out for demonization. And as usual, the right wing blogosphere parroted Beck’s conspiracy theory across thousands of websites.

Beck himself has never advocated violence against Piven, let’s be clear. But he has been repeating his incendiary and false accusations against her for dozens of Fox News broadcasts and radio shows, leading to many thousands of vicious, disturbing comments directed at her on The Blaze, Fox Nation, and other right wing sites.

And Beck obviously has no intention of stopping the incitement. Here’s a clip from his radio show today, in which he mocks the New York Times and Frances Fox Piven, and laughs like a goon about the threats she’s received.

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536 comments
1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:01:36am

I wish we could just ignore Beck and Palin.

2 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:02:28am

What a ghoul.

3 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:03:01am

Lucky for him, Sigmund Freud has been dead since 1939, and is not having to put up with this crap.

4 mojo9  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:03:30am

re: #1 ggt

We can. Problem is the ones that don't.

5 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:05:06am

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

6 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:08:10am

Fuck off, Beck.

7 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:09:24am

This is where these conspiracy theories become dangerous. Nobody on the left had even heard of cloward Piven before and they certainly aren't using it as a blueprint to destroy America. People like Soros are rich and can afford the personal security but these obscure academics and community activists are just normal people and naming them as kingpins in a global conspiracy is just irresponsible.
I probably wouldn't agree much with Frances Piven's politics but Beck's conspiracy theories are dangerous, She doesn't deserve this.

8 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:09:35am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

He'll probably be like the abortion fanatics, say the law is wrong and they are right.

9 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:10:48am

I would listen to the Beck clip, but I can literally feel brain cells dying every time I hear him speak.

10 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:10:49am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

This is where these conspiracy theories become dangerous. Nobody on the left had even heard of cloward Piven before and they certainly aren't using it as a blueprint to destroy America. People like Soros are rich and can afford the personal security but these obscure academics and community activists are just normal people and naming them as kingpins in a global conspiracy is just irresponsible.
I probably wouldn't agree much with Frances Piven's politics but Beck's conspiracy theories are dangerous, She doesn't deserve this.

Oh, she deserves to get called out, but that call out should be done responsibly. BBIAB

11 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:11:48am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

True, but Beck and friends will claim it was a set up by leftists so they already have their defense planned. No amount of warning will get the wingnuts to calm down. Palin was warned about her crosshairs map when it first came out and she couldn't be convinced to save herself the embarrassment.

12 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:11:56am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

She doesn't even deserve to be called out. She's irrelevant. She's an old academic. There's lots of 'em.

13 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:12:04am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

If she's harmed will the right actually own up to him being to blame for it?

14 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:12:16am

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

15 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:12:49am

re: #12 Obdicut

She's just fodder for Beck's paranoia-generating business.

16 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:13:03am

re: #14 Blizzard

And?

17 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:13:19am

Facking Balance Fairy eruption again.

18 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:13:19am

re: #12 Obdicut

She doesn't even deserve to be called out. She's irrelevant. She's an old academic. There's lots of 'em.

////An "old academic" you say... Just like DUN-TAH-DUN-DUN-DAH.... BILL AYERS!

19 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:13:31am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

And this has what to do with the issue at hand?

20 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:13:41am

re: #12 Obdicut

She doesn't even deserve to be called out. She's irrelevant. She's an old academic. There's lots of 'em.

Perhaps we can call her before a House inquiry and have her confirm some names from a list for some Congressmen. Whats the worst that could happen?

///

21 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:13:55am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

That's a function of unrelenting exposure. I would expect that many for Snooki.

22 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:14:22am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Oh, she deserves to get called out, but that call out should be done responsibly. BBIAB

I certainly wouldn't sing up for one of her classes and might object to the university employing her but she's still entitled to live her life. She's committed no crime.

23 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:14:29am

re: #21 Decatur Deb

And: I don't see any mass media figuring laughing hysterically about the death threats against her.

24 Jimmi the Grey  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:14:36am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

Which of them were made by a host of a nationally syndicated media personality?

25 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:14:59am

re: #16 Obdicut

I don't hear her crying about it.

26 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:15:23am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

Barack Obama faces 30 death threats a day, stretching US Secret Service

27 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:15:29am

Does anyone think activists are giving up their day jobs and moving to the Projects to help overload "Teh System"?

28 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:15:30am

I listened to it: it was childish and played Beck as the victim. It sounded like AM show shock jock schtick except the subject is politics and not strippers or inane celebrity gossip.

29 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:15:34am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

Slight difference between a major political figure and a retired professor living on her own.

30 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:15:45am

Death threats are simply NOT COOL. You'd think Fox Producers would shut him up, at least on this topic.

31 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:16:45am
32 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:17:07am

re: #24 Jimmi the Grey

None. Just as none of the threts to Ms. Piven were.

33 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:17:51am

re: #25 Blizzard

I don't hear her crying about it.

Really? Not in the self-serving speech she gave after the Tuscon speeches where she accused the media of inciting violence against her, saying she was the target of a 'blood libel'?

34 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:17:59am

re: #32 Blizzard

None. Just as none of the threts to Ms. Piven were.

So your point is that Ms. Piven should not raise a fuss about it like Sarah isn't?

35 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:20:25am

re: #34 jamesfirecat

Yes, that is my point.

36 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #34 jamesfirecat

If Ms. Piven could be just like Sarah, she could quit her job, get paid lots to serve word salads, and have bodyguards and loyal volunteer defenders.

37 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:21:42am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

Would you have a link to the documents?

38 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:21:45am

re: #25 Blizzard

I don't hear her crying about it.

No, the crying is coming from Beck for being accused of it, hid behind a plastic smile and various other over the top mannerisms. He's a scoundrel of the highest order.

39 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:21:58am

re: #35 Blizzard

Idiot.

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:22:07am

re: #36 jaunte

If Ms. Piven could be just like Sarah, she could quit her job, get paid lots to serve word salads, and have bodyguards and loyal volunteer defenders.

But is she photogenic and have good teeth? Can't do it otherwise . .

/

41 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:22:17am

re: #35 Blizzard

Yes, that is my point.

Aren't death threats illegal in this country?

Since when should we look down on people who report that a crime is being committed against them?

42 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:23:03am

re: #40 ggt

But is she photogenic and have good teeth? Can't do it otherwise . .

/

It's all in the glasses.

43 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:23:22am

re: #25 Blizzard

Sarah Palin absolutely did cry about the death threats she received, at great length.

44 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:23:47am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

This is where these conspiracy theories become dangerous. Nobody on the left had even heard of cloward Piven before and they certainly aren't using it as a blueprint to destroy America.

Though through Becks gum flapping and whole lot more lefties and undescribed whoevers will now become aware of Piven and others in her mode of thinking. Beck assumes that this awareness will automatically lead to condemnation cause to him it's obvious. Same thing with Alinsky. I don't know one 'leftie' who ever talked about him or knew about his book. Even the ones that would sit on their asses all day and pontificate about social theory from people I never heard of. They do know him now and while I wouldn't say anyone has gone total 'Alinsky' the information is now out there and being looked at more then when it was mostly a historical obscurity.

Double edged sword dude. Double edged sword.

45 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:24:19am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it get a pass, like you always do, for saying crazyass inflammatory shit.

It'll be high fives and attaboys.

46 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:24:40am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

Alright...well that makes death threats against Piven perfectly okay then.

47 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:24:44am

re: #36 jaunte

If Ms. Piven could be just like Sarah, she could quit her job, get paid lots to serve word salads, and have bodyguards and loyal volunteer defenders.

don't forget the TV show!
AmIdol

48 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:24:44am

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Slight difference between a major political figure and a retired professor living on her own.

You'd figure that people could understand the difference but I guess Blizzard can't.

49 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:25:21am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

you are cordially invited to fellate yourself post-haste with vigor and aplomb

50 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:26:04am

re: #37 Amory Blaine
Here is an article regarding recent threats. These are on top of the 20 which were documented prior to the Tuscon incident.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

51 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:26:48am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

WTF?

She's an elderly college professor, dude. She wrote a paper. How does that make her a malefactor?

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:27:03am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

I doubt that Glenn Beck laughs about those on his show.

Nor should he. Death threats ain't funny.

53 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:27:05am

Do NOT turn this thread to Poor Sister Sarah.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:27:27am

re: #18 jamesfirecat

///An "old academic" you say... Just like DUN-TAH-DUN-DUN-DAH... BILL AYERS!

Yeah. But with even less influence, if that's possible.

55 Opal  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:27:57am

re: #14 Blizzard

"There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin."

That is just terrible! I hope the perps are tracked down and prosecuted. That said, Sarah Palin is a contemporary politician, polemicist, and media figure who regularly inserts herself and her opinions into the daily fabric of conservative thought. The old academic appears to have been written off to obscurity years ago. Threats toward her are wholly unnecessary and likely come as a result of Beck's adventures in broadcasting. If somebody hurts her as a result of fears and hate spewed by Beck, I think that she (if she survives) should sue Foxnews for providing the platform for Beck.

56 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:28:11am

re: #50 Blizzard

Here is an article regarding recent threats. These are on top of the 20 which were documented prior to the Tuscon incident.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Man, I get up, I fix myself breakfast, I sit down at my machine and the FIRST THING I SEE is this nitwit on my monitor

a waste of electrons

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:28:22am

re: #25 Blizzard

I don't hear her crying about it.

Oh, fuck off.

58 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:28:28am

re: #14 Blizzard

There are 20 documented cases of death threats against Sarah Palin.

Must be tough, when you heap the threats on top of those pro-rape statements by David Letterman.
//

This woman exaggerates, lies, and lives in a state of ignorance and perpetual victimhood.

59 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:28:42am

re: #53 Stanley Sea

Do NOT turn this thread to Poor Sister Sarah.

Just dis the shit out of this guy and bring it back to the topic, this is a troll or a sock or a moron

60 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:28:54am

re: #50 Blizzard

Are you going to address the fact that she did, in fact, 'cry' about receiving threats?

61 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:29:11am

re: #54 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. But with even less influence, if that's possible.

Because she didn't fecit enough male.

62 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:29:22am

re: #50 Blizzard

Here is an article regarding recent threats. These are on top of the 20 which were documented prior to the Tuscon incident.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

I don't see a solid number of "20" in that article. Only vague references from her aides.

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:29:39am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

She's a criminal?

64 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:29:45am

re: #51 Fozzie Bear

WTF?

She's an elderly college professor, dude. She wrote a paper. How does that make her a malefactor?

Her thoughts and writings are evil and make her a criminal I guess. Well if you go by the actual definition of the word.

65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:30:18am

re: #64 Jadespring

Her thoughts and writings are evil and make her a criminal I guess. Well if you go by the actual definition of the word.

I'm starting a band called MALEFACTOR

We'll play political bay-area thrash, old school 80's Testament/Exodus stuff

66 sagehen  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:30:51am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Oh, she deserves to get called out, but that call out should be done responsibly. BBIAB

Deserves to get called out? Really? For an article she published in 1966 that nobody's paid any attention to since?

Really?

67 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:31:15am

re: #46 Jadespring

No, of course not. I am just saying that a public figure who espouses controversial views will get death threats in this day and age. It is not right, it is just a sad reality.

68 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:31:18am

re: #66 sagehen

Deserves to get called out? Really? For an article she published in 1966 that nobody's paid any attention to since?

Really?

hahaha I don't even know

69 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:31:27am

re: #65 WindUpBird

I'm starting a band called MALEFACTOR

We'll play political bay-area thrash, old school 80's Testament/Exodus stuff

Too late:

[Link: www.google.com...]

70 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:31:42am

re: #64 Jadespring

Her thoughts and writings are evil and make her a criminal I guess. Well if you go by the actual definition of the word.

Yeah I tend to go by actual definitions of words, stickler that I am. I'm just wondering where Dark_Falcon gets the idea she is a criminal, or doer of evil. She's a fucking college professor who wrote a paper 45 years ago that some people don't like.

71 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:31:46am

re: #65 WindUpBird

I'm starting a band called MALEFACTOR

We'll play political bay-area thrash, old school 80's Testament/Exodus stuff

Well it is a great word, it has style. Fun to say out loud too.

72 Locker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:31:58am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

Jerkoff.

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:32:07am

re: #67 Blizzard

No, of course not. I am just saying that a public figure who espouses controversial views will get death threats in this day and age. It is not right, it is just a sad reality.

it's still here and it's very concerned


will it bring up Sarah Palin again? Only time will tell

74 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:32:10am

re: #70 Fozzie Bear

It's called clinging.

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:32:17am

re: #69 Decatur Deb

Too late:

[Link: www.google.com...]

I figured, the word sounded too good :D

76 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:32:28am

re: #70 Fozzie Bear

Yeah I tend to go by actual definitions of words, stickler that I am. I'm just wondering where Dark_Falcon gets the idea she is a criminal, or doer of evil. She's a fucking college professor who wrote a paper 45 years ago that some people don't like.

Beck is a successful propagandist.

77 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:32:33am

re: #67 Blizzard

Piven isn't a public figure.

78 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:33:00am

Where is the link to 20 documented threats?

79 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:33:00am

re: #70 Fozzie Bear

Yeah I tend to go by actual definitions of words, stickler that I am. I'm just wondering where Dark_Falcon gets the idea she is a criminal, or doer of evil. She's a fucking college professor who wrote a paper 45 years ago that some people don't like.

if that woman's evil, then DF would probably die of fright if he saw the stuff I've been responsible for :D

80 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:33:29am

re: #78 Amory Blaine

Where is the link to 20 documented threats?

Is this like Obama's 600 gazillion dollar a day fleet of aircraft carriers to accompany him to the mall? :D

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:33:37am

re: #67 Blizzard

No, of course not. I am just saying that a public figure who espouses controversial views will get death threats in this day and age. It is not right, it is just a sad reality.

Hold it. This situation was created by Beck. This professor was not in the public eye until he decided to paint her as one of the Nine Enemies of America (which sounds pretty fucking Maoist to me), and now he's laughing about having generated threats against an elderly academic.

This is not remotely like being the President and having death threats against you be a daily part of life. (Leaving poor fucking Sarah Palin out of it.) This is a witch hunt, and Beck thinks it's funny.

82 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:33:55am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Hold it. This situation was created by Beck. This professor was not in the public eye until he decided to paint her as one of the Nine Enemies of America (which sounds pretty fucking Maoist to me), and now he's laughing about having generated threats against an elderly academic.

This is not remotely like being the President and having death threats against you be a daily part of life. (Leaving poor fucking Sarah Palin out of it.) This is a witch hunt, and Beck thinks it's funny.

83 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:34:15am

re: #67 Blizzard

No, of course not. I am just saying that a public figure who espouses controversial views will get death threats in this day and age. It is not right, it is just a sad reality.

What about ones who espoused controversial views 40/50 years ago and haven't done anything since? Is it normal for them to suddenly start getting death threats all of a sudden?

84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:34:28am

Anyone want to place bets on how long before this guy gives up?

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:34:42am

re: #70 Fozzie Bear

Yeah I tend to go by actual definitions of words, stickler that I am. I'm just wondering where Dark_Falcon gets the idea she is a criminal, or doer of evil. She's a fucking college professor who wrote a paper 45 years ago that some people don't like.

It sounds like a ridiculous paper, but a lot of people were saying ridiculous shit in 1966.

It had no influence. No one is following it's strategy. No one had read the goddamn thing for forty-five years until Beck came along.

86 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:34:47am

re: #78 Amory Blaine

Where is the link to 20 documented threats?

87 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:34:49am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Yep. You just said it better then my reply was going to be.

88 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:34:56am

re: #83 jamesfirecat

What about ones who espoused controversial views 40/50 years ago and haven't done anything since? Is it normal for them to suddenly start getting death threats all of a sudden?

when i was in my 20's I said stuff on usenet that was probably WAY WORSE than anything this lady wrote, lol.

89 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:35:28am

I think I have probably written some ridiculous things in my day. Am I evil?

90 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:35:36am

What, exactly, did she write and why is Beck all hot and bothered about it?

91 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:35:50am

In other news today, pot calls kettle black.

92 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:35:51am

re: #25 Blizzard

I don't hear her crying about it.

If Palin is receiving death threats, especially at allegedly "unprecedented levels," all of us should be concerned. But Palin should be calling the police or the FBI, not mere "security experts," as reported. To neglect engaging law enforcement is a disservice to her own safety and the safety of her staff and family. Yet neither Palin's staff nor the news outlets elaborate on this point, except to admit that the former has not signed off on changing Palin's security arrangements. The media, however, has clearly been alerted.[Link: www.thenation.com...]

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:36:15am

WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???
WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???
WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???
WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???

Yeah, this guy's had the flavor chewed out of him

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:37:30am

re: #89 Fozzie Bear

I think I have probably written some ridiculous things in my day. Am I evil?

YES I AM

I AM, MA'AM

I wanna be a malefactor! I want that on my business card. "Conceptual Malefactor"

95 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:38:06am

re: #89 Fozzie Bear

I think I have probably written some ridiculous things in my day. Am I evil?

Well I already know I am. I got a death threat because I wrote on a forum that I grow tomatoes a certain way and it was so wrong and evil I deserved to die for it.

96 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:38:24am

re: #94 WindUpBird

YES I AM

I AM, MA'AM

I wanna be a malefactor! I want that on my business card. "Conceptual Malefactor"

If you charge for it are you then a Fee Malefactor?

:)

97 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:38:52am

re: #95 Jadespring

Well I already know I am. I got a death threat because I wrote on a forum that I grow tomatoes a certain way and it was so wrong and evil I deserved to die for it.

It isn't upside down is it???


You Malefactor!!!!!!!!
///

98 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:38:55am

re: #94 WindUpBird

YES I AM

I AM, MA'AM

I wanna be a malefactor! I want that on my business card. "Conceptual Malefactor"

Back off!
I'm the evil one around here!

99 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:39:16am

re: #98 Varek Raith

Back off!
I'm the evil one around here!

but have you committed a crime?

100 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:39:21am

re: #95 Jadespring

Well I already know I am. I got a death threat because I wrote on a forum that I grow tomatoes a certain way and it was so wrong and evil I deserved to die for it.

lol. In this day and age, that doesn't even seem that far fetched.

"DIE FOUL PERVERTER OF FRUITED VINES!!!!!"

101 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:39:53am

re: #94 WindUpBird

YES I AM

I AM, MA'AM

I wanna be a malefactor! I want that on my business card. "Conceptual Malefactor"

I knew a guy who was an Analyst and a Therapist, but he combined the terms so they would fit on his business card.

102 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:39:53am

Most people around these parts think Malefactor is a new after-shave.

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:40:03am

re: #99 ggt

but have you committed a crime?

crimes against art and shape and color, every day

104 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:40:20am

re: #98 Varek Raith

Back off!
I'm the evil one around here!

Foul xenos.

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:41:10am

re: #95 Jadespring

Well I already know I am. I got a death threat because I wrote on a forum that I grow tomatoes a certain way and it was so wrong and evil I deserved to die for it.

I love forums like that where there's some really specific subject that should be totally neutral, that people lose their minds over, I guess dog trainers are like that on forums. MASSIVE flamewars o_o

106 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:41:19am

Sarah Palin has done great violence to the English language.

GRAMMATICAL MALEFACTOR

107 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:41:25am

re: #100 Fozzie Bear

lol. In this day and age, that doesn't even seem that far fetched.

"DIE FOUL PERVERTER OF FRUITED VINES!!!"

Hee. Yeah it was quite bizzare. I'm pretty sure some mental illness was involved. That or the person took tomato growing WAY TOO SERIOUSLY (x eleventy!!)

108 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:42:13am

re: #107 Jadespring

Hee. Yeah it was quite bizzare. I'm pretty sure some mental illness was involved. That or the person took tomato growing WAY TOO SERIOUSLY (x eleventy!!)

Probably liked putting pineapple on pizza as well...

(I kid! I kid!)

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:42:36am

re: #106 Fozzie Bear

Sarah Palin has done great violence to the English language.

GRAMMATICAL MALEFACTOR

hahahahahahahaha

110 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:42:59am

re: #99 ggt

but have you committed a crime?

I was caught shoplifting when I was 10...
That count???
/I iz bad.

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:43:07am

re: #107 Jadespring

Hee. Yeah it was quite bizzare. I'm pretty sure some mental illness was involved. That or the person took tomato growing WAY TOO SERIOUSLY (x eleventy!!)

Trying to create Audrey II, no doubt

112 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:43:08am

re: #94 WindUpBird

YES I AM

I AM, MA'AM

I wanna be a malefactor! I want that on my business card. "Conceptual Malefactor"

That's not a Malefactor, this is a Malefactor!

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:43:26am

re: #110 Varek Raith

I was caught shoplifting when I was 10...
That count???
/I iz bad.

Of course you were bad, you got caught :D

114 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:43:27am

Here's the article that the right wing is currently using to smear Piven with: Mobilizing the Jobless | The Nation

An effective movement of the unemployed will have to look something like the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees.

At the National Review, Stanley Kurtz seized on this one phrase to claim that Piven was advocating that the unemployed should riot in the US.

But read the whole article. You may not agree with her politics, but she's making a point that's hard to deny -- that mass protests can affect governmental policies. She doesn't "call for rioting," as Kurtz falsely claimed -- she predicts mass protests due to unemployment and says the progressive movement should join those protests.

Agree or disagree with this analysis, it's nothing but a distortion to say it's a call for violence.

115 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:43:42am

re: #90 ggt

What, exactly, did she write and why is Beck all hot and bothered about it?

She wanted to reform welfare by overloading the existing system.


A series of welfare drives in large cities would, we believe, impel action on a new federal program to distribute income, eliminating the present public welfare system and alleviating the abject poverty which it perpetrates. Widespread campaigns to register the eligible poor for welfare aid, and to help existing recipients obtain their full benefits, would produce bureaucratic disruption in welfare agencies and fiscal disruption in local and state governments. These disruptions would generate severe political strains, and deepen existing divisions among elements in the big-city Democratic coalition: the remaining white middle class, the white working-class ethnic groups and the growing minority poor. To avoid a further weakening of that historic coalition, a national Democratic administration would be con-strained to advance a federal solution to poverty that would override local welfare failures, local class and racial conflicts and local revenue dilemmas. By the internal disruption of local bureaucratic practices, by the furor over public welfare poverty, and by the collapse of current financing arrangements, powerful forces can be generated for major economic reforms at the national level.[Link: www.commondreams.org...]
116 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:43:51am

re: #99 ggt

but have you committed a crime?

Committed or convicted?

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:44:00am

re: #110 Varek Raith

I was caught shoplifting when I was 10...
That count???
/I iz bad.

Well, then don't think you can claim to be evil if that is all you have done.

You should retract.

118 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:44:23am

Should I go to the dealership and take a test drive while it's all snowing outside and everything?

Isn't that like, kind of the point of taking a test drive?

119 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:44:43am

re: #102 Decatur Deb

Most people around these parts think Malefactor is a new after-shave.

What, no updings? That was brilliant. Tough crowd I guess.

120 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:45:29am

re: #114 Charles

Here's the article that the right wing is currently using to smear Piven with: Mobilizing the Jobless | The Nation

At the National Review, Stanley Kurtz seized on this one phrase to claim that Piven was advocating that the unemployed should riot in the US.

But read the whole article. You may not agree with her politics, but she's making a point that's hard to deny -- that mass protests can affect governmental policies. She doesn't "call for rioting," as Kurtz falsely claimed -- she predicts mass protests due to unemployment and says the progressive movement should join those protests.

As a sociologist, isn't predicting sources of social disorder sort of HER JOB?

Agree or disagree with this analysis, it's nothing but a distortion to say it's a call for violence.

121 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:45:34am

re: #118 Alouette

Are you all healed up and recovered?

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:45:37am

re: #119 BigPapa

What, no updings? That was brilliant. Tough crowd I guess.

I missed that one, remedied

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:45:49am

re: #90 ggt

What, exactly, did she write and why is Beck all hot and bothered about it?

IIRC, back in 66, she and Cloward wrote a paper proposing that everyone get on welfare and overwhelm the system to bring about a collapse of the corrupt U.S. economy and government.

This did not happen, and the paper was promptly relegated to a great mass of similar ideas percolating around in the 60s and 70s. It was never going to happen, and I doubt the authors ever thought it was going to happen.

Like Alinsky, this crap was dug out of storage by various wingnuts, Beck among them, and is now being waved around as proof of malign intent by the left wing. This is pretty much as though I were dusting off hysterical papers about the communist threat from the same era, and using it as proof that modern conservatives want to bomb Moscow and get us all nuked.

124 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:46:03am

re: #93 WindUpBird

Still looking. That was a figure from about 8 months ago. I'm sure that the total is much higher now. Working on it.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:46:16am

re: #93 WindUpBird

WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???
WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???
WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???
WHERE IS A LINK TO 20 THREATS BLIZZARD???

Yeah, this guy's had the flavor chewed out of him

Does your wingnut lose his flavor on the bedpost overnight?

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:46:41am

re: #95 Jadespring

Well I already know I am. I got a death threat because I wrote on a forum that I grow tomatoes a certain way and it was so wrong and evil I deserved to die for it.

You're not kidding, are you? Jeez.

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:46:50am

re: #115 jaunte

She wanted to reform welfare by overloading the existing system.

Naive? 60's idealist?

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:46:57am

re: #114 Charles

I really hope right wing talkers mobilizing hordes of crazy nitwits against academia doesn't become de rigeur

we really are just going to end up with a big intellectual black hole in this country :P

129 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:46:57am

Varek, you should just drop the Sith and just join the Imperium. That way you can still have all the fun of galactic domination, oppression of the masses and xenophobia but still be a good guy.

130 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:47:19am

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

But cutting taxes to the point of disrupting public services to the poor is fiscal and social genius only adopted by serious people.

131 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:47:28am

re: #114 Charles

Kurtz also believes that Obama is a socialist, and denied there was any calls to violence coming from conservatives.

Not really my go-to-guy on making any fucking sense at all.

132 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:47:28am

re: #124 Blizzard

Still looking. That was a figure from about 8 months ago. I'm sure that the total is much higher now. Working on it.

obvious troll is still obvious

133 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:47:40am

re: #127 ggt

A poorly thought out plan that didn't happen. Panic!

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:47:43am

re: #120 Decatur Deb

Rats--broke that somehowre: #114 Charles

Here's the article that the right wing is currently using to smear Piven with: Mobilizing the Jobless | The Nation

At the National Review, Stanley Kurtz seized on this one phrase to claim that Piven was advocating that the unemployed should riot in the US.

But read the whole article. You may not agree with her politics, but she's making a point that's hard to deny -- that mass protests can affect governmental policies. She doesn't "call for rioting," as Kurtz falsely claimed -- she predicts mass protests due to unemployment and says the progressive movement should join those protests.

Agree or disagree with this analysis, it's nothing but a distortion to say it's a call for violence.

Fixed

As a sociologist, isn't predicting sources of social disorder sort of her job?

135 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:47:49am

re: #114 Charles

Agree or disagree with this analysis, it's nothing but a distortion to say it's a call for violence.

And a further abomination to laugh off death threats that have been seeded by Beck's distortion, by Beck himself.

Pretty craven.

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:48:02am

re: #105 WindUpBird

I love forums like that where there's some really specific subject that should be totally neutral, that people lose their minds over, I guess dog trainers are like that on forums. MASSIVE flamewars o_o

I used to be on a forum for people with trichotillomania. We had one person melt down and swear they would get one woman's kids taken from her and put in foster care because she said she felt sorry that her daughter had trich.

137 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:48:47am

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

Ow. Google searched that. Ow.

138 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:48:51am

re: #119 BigPapa

What, no updings? That was brilliant. Tough crowd I guess.

Good agent is always worth his 15%.

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:48:55am

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

I used to be on a forum for people with trichotillomania. We had one person melt down and swear they would get one woman's kids taken from her and put in foster care because she said she felt sorry that her daughter had trich.

Yowsa o_o

140 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:48:59am

re: #121 Obdicut

Are you all healed up and recovered?

I'm at work today. Yeah my ribcage is still sore, but I have pain meds. I'm driving Zedushka's car, which has some battle scars, but it's still a lot safer and more stable than my old bucket of junk.

141 Lidane  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:50:09am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

FTFY

It's just a bad idea, period. No need to parse it.

142 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:50:18am

re: #140 Alouette

Glad you're in something safer, and hopefully will soon be in something even safer.

I'd say minimize driving as much as you can while you're still taking pain meds, but they really do a number on me. You may be less sensitive to them.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:50:28am

re: #127 ggt

Naive? 60's idealist?

Arrogant wannabe revolutionary 60s academic. There were thousands of them.

144 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:50:50am

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

You're not kidding, are you? Jeez.

No I'm not kidding. I still have a copy of the messages on my old computer.

Although I never felt actually threatened by it, it was my 'oh the net can be crazy' a ha moment. Before that I used to do net stuff under my own name and was much more liberal with personal info. I figured if I could get threatened by something has bland as growing tomatoes then what could happen with more controversial stuff...like oh I dunno...political viewpoints. :)

145 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:51:32am

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

How many of them are arrogant teabaggers now I wonder?

146 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:51:34am

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

Arrogant wannabe revolutionary 60s academic. There were thousands of them.

And then, like the passenger pigeon, they were hunted into extinction...

147 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:53:13am

re: #146 oaktree

And then, like the passenger pigeon, they were hunted into extinction...

Some turned themselves inside out. My fav magazine was Ramparts.

148 yoshicastmaster  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:53:22am

It's unsurprising that Beck refuses to take any responsibility for the power of his words. he acknowledges that words have power in his support for the first amendment, but seems to deny that one using that power has responsibility for the effect. further, i suspect he lacks compassion for someone hurt by the (likely unintended, though not unpredictable) effect of his words.

Beck is just another in a long line of people who look for an antagonist whenever they feel wronged. Demonizing an academic is just par for the course with him.

The simple and naive need to personify antagonism to explain it. Unfortunately, I'm sure Charles knows this, given his treatment by the rightwing blogs.

149 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:54:06am

The minions have been sucked in by the University of Nottingham elements videos.

Cool.

150 sagehen  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:54:17am

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

You're not kidding, are you? Jeez.

Stargate fandom had a total meltdown when Sam/Jack shippers and Daniel Jackson fans went on total rampage, death threats and all, against reach other. Just to make it even more insane, the showrunners and scriptwriters took sides, and went on message boards and mailing lists to malign one side or the other... (don't even get me started on the Ray Wars of Due South).

151 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:54:50am

re: #150 sagehen

Stargate fandom had a total meltdown when Sam/Jack shippers and Daniel Jackson fans went on total rampage, death threats and all, against reach other. Just to make it even more insane, the showrunners and scriptwriters took sides, and went on message boards and mailing lists to malign one side or the other... (don't even get me started on the Ray Wars of Due South).

._.

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:55:48am

re: #150 sagehen

Stargate fandom had a total meltdown when Sam/Jack shippers and Daniel Jackson fans went on total rampage, death threats and all, against reach other. Just to make it even more insane, the showrunners and scriptwriters took sides, and went on message boards and mailing lists to malign one side or the other... (don't even get me started on the Ray Wars of Due South).

I have a hard time getting my blood pressure up that high over non-reality.

153 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:56:43am

re: #150 sagehen

Stargate fandom had a total meltdown when Sam/Jack shippers and Daniel Jackson fans went on total rampage, death threats and all, against reach other. Just to make it even more insane, the showrunners and scriptwriters took sides, and went on message boards and mailing lists to malign one side or the other... (don't even get me started on the Ray Wars of Due South).

Firefly... and how Fox treated it....

(Puts on flame proof hazmat suit)

Discuss...

154 sagehen  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:56:46am

re: #151 WindUpBird

._.

oh yeah, full-on brawls at the cons, organizers had to bring in extra security and seat people separately...

155 yoshicastmaster  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:57:09am

ps you know who else laughs at threats towards others? Goebbels!

(wow. that was surprisingly easy and satisfying. no wonder he does it.)

156 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:57:13am

re: #150 sagehen

Stargate fandom had a total meltdown when Sam/Jack shippers and Daniel Jackson fans went on total rampage, death threats and all, against reach other. Just to make it even more insane, the showrunners and scriptwriters took sides, and went on message boards and mailing lists to malign one side or the other... (don't even get me started on the Ray Wars of Due South).

Well she should have gone with Daniel!!!!!

157 sagehen  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:57:21am

re: #153 jamesfirecat

Firefly... and how Fox treated it...

(Puts on flame proof hazmat suit)

Discuss...

That's an easy one, all the fans are on the same side there.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:57:48am

re: #154 sagehen

oh yeah, full-on brawls at the cons, organizers had to bring in extra security and seat people separately...

are you serious? :D

159 stockman  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:58:02am

[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.thenation.com...]
So, is FFP inciting vs. advocating violence? Greek-type strikes and riots (her words) here? Or is this strictly an academic exercise on her part?

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:58:51am

re: #159 stockman

[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.thenation.com...]
So, is FFP inciting vs. advocating violence? Greek-type strikes and riots (her words) here? Or is this strictly an academic exercise on her part?

another talking point appears!

161 bluecheese  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:58:57am

re: #124 Blizzard

Still looking. That was a figure from about 8 months ago. I'm sure that the total is much higher now. Working on it.

How much do they pay you to troll internet communities? How much per comment?

Aren't you needed over in the politico comment section right now?

162 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:59:12am

re: #153 jamesfirecat

Firefly... and how Fox treated it...

(Puts on flame proof hazmat suit)

Discuss...

Don't get me started....

I still get irked when I think about it.
Alas what could have been....

163 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:59:56am

re: #159 stockman

35 comments in 6 years. Seriously, do you guys lurk, or does some other blog tell you to post obvious pushback here?

164 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:00:07pm

re: #159 stockman

[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.thenation.com...]
So, is FFP inciting vs. advocating violence? Greek-type strikes and riots (her words) here? Or is this strictly an academic exercise on her part?

Is Glenn Beck calling for violence when he says that it may be necessary to shoot certain liberals in the head? Or is it strictly an academic exercise?

165 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:00:20pm

re: #151 WindUpBird

._.

Reminds one of the Dickens-Bronte* riots in London in 1851. Fandom getting out of hand is old hat. Self-selecting tribalism seems to be hard-wired in our species.

* - Fictional event. Made up out of whole cloth. Imagine for yourself how fans of Wuthering Heights and David Copperfield could get all raved up and violent against each other in Victorian times. :)

166 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:00:50pm

re: #165 oaktree

Reminds one of the Dickens-Bronte* riots in London in 1851. Fandom getting out of hand is old hat. Self-selecting tribalism seems to be hard-wired in our species.

* - Fictional event. Made up out of whole cloth. Imagine for yourself how fans of Wuthering Heights and David Copperfield could get all raved up and violent against each other in Victorian times. :)

That sounds like a Wondermark comic :D

167 stockman  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:00:50pm

Well, the original post referenced a 45 year old academic article. The Nation article, dateline 2011, is of the moment, no?

168 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:01:08pm

re: #165 oaktree

Reminds one of the Dickens-Bronte* riots in London in 1851. Fandom getting out of hand is old hat. Self-selecting tribalism seems to be hard-wired in our species.

* - Fictional event. Made up out of whole cloth. Imagine for yourself how fans of Wuthering Heights and David Copperfield could get all raved up and violent against each other in Victorian times. :)

Thursday Next.

169 stockman  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:02:05pm

I'm not standing behind any of Beck's rhetoric, eitherre: #164 Fozzie Bear

I'm not standing behind any of Beck's rhetoric, either.

170 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:02:07pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear

I think his method is simply to predict civil war between commies and liberals, and tell his listeners they must be 'prepared' and can't expect to sit on the sidelines. He's just a simple futurist.

171 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:02:57pm

re: #169 stockman

I'm not standing behind any of Beck's rhetoric, either

I'm not standing behind any of Beck's rhetoric, either.

Read the article in the Nation. All of it. Then, once you understand the article, come back and lets discuss it.

172 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:02pm

Since when did noticing a trend become inciting violence?

173 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:04pm

re: #159 stockman

[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.thenation.com...]
So, is FFP inciting vs. advocating violence? Greek-type strikes and riots (her words) here? Or is this strictly an academic exercise on her part?

The Nation article is written in too scholarly a manner for Beck to absorb.

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:05pm

its one of those days, they're crawling out of the vents

175 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:15pm

re: #167 stockman

Well, the original post referenced a 45 year old academic article. The Nation article, dateline 2011, is of the moment, no?

"I know Eldrige Cleaver. You, mam, are no Eldridge Cleaver."

176 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:23pm

re: #153 jamesfirecat

Firefly... and how Fox treated it...

(Puts on flame proof hazmat suit)

Discuss...

Seeing how much of a run Farscape had, and being the inferior product it was to Firefly.....

177 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:52pm

re: #174 WindUpBird

its one of those days, they're crawling out of the vents

WHERES APONE?! WHERES APONE?

178 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:03:56pm

re: #171 Fozzie Bear

Read the article in the Nation. All of it. Then, once you understand the article, come back and lets discuss it.

yeah, a link and a CONCERNED QUESTION?!?!?!? does not understanding make


it's sorta like we're dealing with people who want to play refrigerator poetry

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:04:08pm

re: #159 stockman

[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.thenation.com...]
So, is FFP inciting vs. advocating violence? Greek-type strikes and riots (her words) here? Or is this strictly an academic exercise on her part?

I updinged you for providing the links.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:04:12pm

re: #156 Jadespring

Well she should have gone with Daniel!!!

I'm really more a Jack/Daniel kind of person, but dayum...

181 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:04:21pm

re: #93 WindUpBird

Here is a list of 20 death threats against Sarah Palin, note that this was in March of 2010. No doubt, that number is much higher today.

182 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:04:38pm

re: #181 Blizzard

Here is a list of 20 death threats against Sarah Palin, note that this was in March of 2010. No doubt, that number is much higher today.

WOW GREAT LIST

183 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:04:54pm

re: #176 Ericus58

Seeing how much of a run Farscape had, and being the inferior product it was to Firefly...

Don't make me break out a qualta blade.

184 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:05:05pm

re: #181 Blizzard

Here is a list of 20 death threats against Sarah Palin, note that this was in March of 2010. No doubt, that number is much higher today.

lol

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:05:39pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear

Is Glenn Beck calling for violence when he says that it may be necessary to shoot certain liberals in the head? Or is it strictly an academic exercise?

Beck couldn't operate as an academic if he had 3 honorary PhD's.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:05:43pm

re: #182 Fozzie Bear

WOW GREAT LIST

*snerk*

187 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:05:44pm

re: #176 Ericus58

Them's fighting words!!!

188 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:05:57pm

re: #181 Blizzard

Here is a list of 20 death threats against Sarah Palin, note that this was in March of 2010. No doubt, that number is much higher today.

Still doesn't change the base fact, death threats are illegal aren't they? Why are you saying a woman shouldn't raise a fuss when a crime is committed against her?

189 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:06:02pm

re: #167 stockman

Well, the original post referenced a 45 year old academic article. The Nation article, dateline 2011, is of the moment, no?

Well that brings up a cause and effect question no? Beck has been talking about Piven for more then a year. Would the Nation have bothered to publish her this month if she hadn't been brought into the Beckian limelight as one of the most dangerous Americans?

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:06:04pm

re: #179 ggt

I updinged you for providing the links.

and I downdinged him for misrepresenting the article

191 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:06:06pm

re: #181 Blizzard

Has her staff brought in law enforcement to work on the problem, or is it still a private matter?

192 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:06:11pm

Sure enough, immediately after I post the link to the Nation article, a parrot shows up with the talking point of the day.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:06:21pm

re: #159 stockman

[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.thenation.com...]
So, is FFP inciting vs. advocating violence? Greek-type strikes and riots (her words) here? Or is this strictly an academic exercise on her part?

First, this was discussed above. Please try to respond to what has already been said.

Second, I am not in the business of defending old revolutionaries. Most of them piss me off. But this woman is not a threat to the United States. She's getting death threats because Glenn Beck decided to put her on an enemies list, to improve his own ratings. I'm not a big fan of siccing stalkers on old ladies to make yourself look cool.

194 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:07:16pm

It shows that these people don't even bother reading the thread first to see if it's already being discussed - they're just here to dump the talking point.

195 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:07:30pm

re: #159 stockman

Taranto is a partisan hack. What does that make you?

(Taranto)But the Tea Party is nonviolent, and the second paragraph makes clear that is not what Piven has in mind. In fact, Piven has nothing but scorn for Tea Party, which is the subject of a bigoted rant she delivered last month, which you can hear on Glenn Beck's site TheBlaze.com:

(Piven) These voters . . . are older. . . . They're white, they're all white. . . . These are the people in American society--and you know, they are always there. . . . For them, change is for the worse. After all, there's an African-American in the White House. That's sort of beyond their cultural experience. The American population is darkening. That's also beyond their experience. . . . And you know, I don't have any data on this, but I am absolutely sure that sex is very important in what is happening to older people.

196 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:07:53pm

re: #182 Fozzie Bear

(no seriously, dude, you forgot the list)

197 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:07:58pm

re: #187 lawhawk

Them's fighting words!!!

heh - Wife and I are finishing up season one of Farscape this week ;)

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:07:59pm

re: #172 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Since when did noticing a trend become inciting violence?

Especially since ON THIS FORUM, I've had people tell me that there will be mass rioting JUST LIKE GREECE in California when we are forced to slash our massive 'entitlement programs'. Was that 'inciting violence'?

199 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:08:17pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm so embarrassed for people like Blizzard who feel they have to stand up for a guy like Beck, who's essentially a rodeo clown, obeisant little lapdogs

Poor people. "No! Don't pick on my clown!"

200 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:08:35pm

re: #194 Charles

It shows that these people don't even bother reading the thread first to see if it's already being discussed - they're just here to dump the talking point.

Some of us don't think to look for updates either :)

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:08:44pm

re: #196 Fozzie Bear

(no seriously, dude, you forgot the list)

*falls over*

Did he just leave? It's like he tried to spike a football, and then forgot he had no football

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:08:47pm

re: #181 Blizzard

Here is a list of 20 death threats against Sarah Palin, note that this was in March of 2010. No doubt, that number is much higher today.

Links work better when you link them.

203 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:08:57pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

First, this was discussed above. Please try to respond to what has already been said.

Second, I am not in the business of defending old revolutionaries. Most of them piss me off. But this woman is not a threat to the United States. She's getting death threats because Glenn Beck decided to put her on an enemies list, to improve his own ratings. I'm not a big fan of siccing stalkers on old ladies to make yourself look cool.

Her plan from the 60s was brilliant, and it's going to kick in any time now. Revolutionary Rapture.

204 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:09:38pm

re: #197 Ericus58

heh - Wife and I are finishing up season one of Farscape this week ;)

greta show

Also, give Lexx a try if you haven't yet, it's sorta like Farscape if it was written by lunatics :D

205 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:09:51pm

i was gonna pile on the Beck defenders, but then we had to go and reference the loss of Firefly and i'm all teary-eyed again...carry on without me...

206 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:03pm
207 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:14pm

I guess Beck's next step backwards in time will be calling out Robert Louis Stevenson for writing about criminal enterprises like piracy and kidnapping in a positive light.

(On an English Lit riff today for some reason.)

208 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:17pm

re: #201 WindUpBird

*falls over*

Did he just leave? It's like he tried to spike a football, and then forgot he had no football

Dude you have no Koran.

209 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:24pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Links work better when you link them.

wingnuts A) can't spell, B) can't use HTML

210 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:40pm

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

Will you be in your bunk?

211 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:43pm

re: #208 iossarian

Dude you have no Koran.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

212 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:10:59pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

greta show

Also, give Lexx a try if you haven't yet, it's sorta like Farscape if it was written by lunatics :D

We were -this- clsoe to going with Lexx first... we might actually switch up.

213 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:11:35pm

re: #210 jaunte

Will you be in your bunk?

yes, pining for Morena...

214 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:11:37pm
215 webevintage  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:11:43pm

re: #156 Jadespring

Well she should have gone with Daniel!!!

Fandom shippers bring the lulz...slash ones double it....

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:12:22pm

Have a great afternoon all!

217 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:12:24pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

greta show

Also, give Lexx a try if you haven't yet, it's sorta like Farscape if it was written by lunatics :D

I loved Farscape, but Lexx was just way too much for me.

218 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:12:26pm

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

i was gonna pile on the Beck defenders, but then we had to go and reference the loss of Firefly and i'm all teary-eyed again...carry on without me...

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that... you find someone to carry you.

(I'm a bad person have a box of tissues)

219 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:12:45pm

re: #214 Fozzie Bear

Um... that's all the same person.

To be perfectly clear, ONE person has made threats to Palin via twitter. Doing it 20 times doesn't make it "threattier".

220 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:13:30pm

I've detected a glitch in the matrix.

221 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:13:39pm

re: #212 Ericus58

We were -this- clsoe to going with Lexx first... we might actually switch up.

Lexx is much more gutter than Farscape :D Lower production values, sort of depraved, and REALLY FUNNY, especially when you get into later seasons.

Farscape is just awesome period, you cnnaot go wrong with it!

222 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:13:40pm
223 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:13:53pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that... you find someone to carry you.

(I'm a bad person have a box of tissues)

wait, so that set of footprints wasn't yours?

224 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:13:53pm

re: #219 Fozzie Bear

hahaha what did you do, Fozzie

225 sagehen  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:14:07pm

re: #212 Ericus58

We were -this- clsoe to going with Lexx first... we might actually switch up.

I hated Lexx, if you're using my taste as a guideline (DS9 is the best Trek, Babylon 5 is better, Stargate Universe sucks, Dollhouse was awful, I love Fringe).

226 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:14:17pm

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

i was gonna pile on the Beck defenders, but then we had to go and reference the loss of Firefly and i'm all teary-eyed again...carry on without me...

To overcome our grief, my Wife and I are going to watch the subsequent series that the cast and producer moved on to; Chronicles of S.C., Dollhouse, etc.

227 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:14:26pm

Reaching end of patience for troll.

228 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:14:34pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

Linked to Patterico's links that all source to the same person.

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:14:44pm

re: #217 JasonA

I loved Farscape, but Lexx was just way too much for me.

I ADORE LEXX, but yeah, it gets really bonkers at times. ZEV! ZEV!

230 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:14:58pm

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

i was gonna pile on the Beck defenders, but then we had to go and reference the loss of Firefly and i'm all teary-eyed again...carry on without me...

Sometimes when I'm watching Castle I just pretend he's wearing the brown coat..... sniff....

231 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:15:08pm

re: #226 Ericus58

To overcome our grief, my Wife and I are going to watch the subsequent series that the cast and producer moved on to; Chronicles of S.C., Dollhouse, etc.

My wife and i really enjoyed Dollhouse.

232 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:15:40pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

Lexx is much more gutter than Farscape :D Lower production values, sort of depraved, and REALLY FUNNY, especially when you get into later seasons.

Farscape is just awesome period, you cnnaot go wrong with it!

I know, just riffing on the Farscape fans ;)
We're having fun with it also.

233 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:15:53pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

hahaha what did you do, Fozzie

lol 'twasn't me. Just followed the link provided by the above moron, and it was a collection of tweets, all by one person, saying very angry things about Palin.

I was just pointing out that 20 tweets from one threatening person != 20 threats in the way these things are generally discussed.

234 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:16:10pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

hahaha what did you do, Fozzie

rule #1 of Lizard Fight Club: don't quote the troll

235 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:16:52pm

re: #230 Jadespring

Sometimes when I'm watching Castle I just pretend he's wearing the brown coat... sniff...

i can't watch. hurts too much;)

236 Blizzard  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:16:52pm

re: #219 Fozzie Bear

Those are genuine death threats against her. There have been more, as my first link alluded to. The overall point I am attempting to make is that these are a sad reality of life today. It is not right to make death threats against anybody.

237 webevintage  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:17:26pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that... you find someone to carry you.

(I'm a bad person have a box of tissues)

Never leave a man behind....

238 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:17:31pm

re: #230 Jadespring

Sometimes when I'm watching Castle I just pretend he's wearing the brown coat... sniff...

LOL, I'll pass that on to my wife fer sure - she would relate indeed!

239 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:17:57pm

re: #236 Blizzard

Those are genuine death threats against her. There have been more, as my first link alluded to. The overall point I am attempting to make is that these are a sad reality of life today. It is not right to make death threats against anybody.

Well, how magnanimous of you to drag Palin into this to make a point that has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with Palin.

240 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:18:36pm

re: #225 sagehen

I hated Lexx, if you're using my taste as a guideline (DS9 is the best Trek, Babylon 5 is better, Stargate Universe sucks, Dollhouse was awful, I love Fringe).

see, I was bored by DS9. I'm a fan of some trek, like TNG and the first few movies, and I have a soft spot for TOS. But my favorite idea of sci-fi is sort of far-future gutter trash. All I was told about Lexx from my friend was "so there's this ep where a screaming robot head has his chastity violated, oh and also, there's this preserved floating guy named Mantrid, and his arms..." I was sold immediately.


(I do need to watch more Fringe)

241 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:18:51pm

re: #234 Aceofwhat?

rule #1 of Lizard Fight Club: don't quote the troll

Quoted for emphasis.

242 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:18:55pm

re: #114 Charles

You mean, it isn't bullseyes and quaint little sayings like "God, guts, and guns"?

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:18:56pm

re: #233 Fozzie Bear

lol 'twasn't me. Just followed the link provided by the above moron, and it was a collection of tweets, all by one person, saying very angry things about Palin.

I was just pointing out that 20 tweets from one threatening person != 20 threats in the way these things are generally discussed.

Yes :D

244 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:19:28pm

re: #234 Aceofwhat?

rule #1 of Lizard Fight Club: don't quote the troll

I occasionally forget myself!

245 webevintage  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:19:58pm

re: #230 Jadespring

Sometimes when I'm watching Castle I just pretend he's wearing the brown coat... sniff...

I'm ready for Castle to be canceled....
Fillion is wasted on that show.

246 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:20:04pm

re: #244 WindUpBird

I occasionally forget myself!

You occasionally are the troll. :P


(I kid, I kid!)

247 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:20:09pm

re: #236 Blizzard

Those are genuine death threats against her. There have been more, as my first link alluded to. The overall point I am attempting to make is that these are a sad reality of life today. It is not right to make death threats against anybody.

THREAD HIJACK ALERT

lock all doors and drive with caution

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:21:00pm

re: #246 JasonA

You occasionally are the troll. :P

(I kid, I kid!)

I'm not a troll, I'm a jerk! Trolls are insincere. :D I'm sincere. if I'm behaving in an unbecoming manner here, at least I'm coming from an honest place ^_^

249 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:21:03pm

re: #235 Aceofwhat?

i can't watch. hurts too much;)

Sometimes I wonder what it is about Firefly. For a long time I thought I was the only one who was that upset. I don't usually get too fussed about a tv show, they come they go but this one I still get angry feelings about.

How many years has it been? 6 or 7 years? Nuts if you think about it.

What is it about Firefly.....

250 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:21:20pm

re: #236 Blizzard

Those are genuine death threats against her. There have been more, as my first link alluded to. The overall point I am attempting to make is that these are a sad reality of life today. It is not right to make death threats against anybody.

Another sad reality is that so many people don't understand what they are talking about. The subject of this thread was not death threats in general but the fact that Beck is mocking somebody who has received death threats no doubt fomented by his exposure.

Pointing out that Palin receives them too does nothing but expose the fact that you don't understand the subject or context. And you are equivocating to boot.

251 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:21:46pm

re: #244 WindUpBird

I occasionally forget myself!

heh, we all have. i just hate making a mess for the proprietor, so i've tried to just use the reply feature whenever i get a whiff of that familiar odor...

252 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:22:03pm

[Link: www.gibson.com...]

best story ever

253 charlz  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:22:18pm

re: #240 WindUpBird

(I do need to watch more Fringe)


actually it sounds like you need to watch Invader Zim.

254 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:22:36pm

re: #245 webevintage

I'm ready for Castle to be canceled...
Fillion is wasted on that show.

I still like it but you're right he is wasted.

255 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:22:38pm

re: #236 Blizzard

Those are genuine death threats against her. There have been more, as my first link alluded to. The overall point I am attempting to make is that these are a sad reality of life today. It is not right to make death threats against anybody.

They're still illegal.

Is there something wrong with women complaining when crimes are committed against them?

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:23:03pm

re: #250 BigPapa

Or that he's intentionally thread-jacking.

Which I suspect is the case. This guy has nothing to say, but is very persistent with his nothing. That's troll behavior.

257 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:24:07pm

re: #253 charlz

actually it sounds like you need to watch Invader Zim.

You think I don't know the works of JHONEN VASQUEZ?!?!

Oh, you must get to know WUB better, I was a Johnny The Homicidal maniac fan :D

258 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:24:23pm

re: #255 jamesfirecat

Is there something wrong with women complaining when crimes are committed against them?

Only when they're unsubstantiated, fabricated, or exaggerated for the sake of dramatic enhancement. Otherwise, no, nothing wrong with it at all.

259 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:25:33pm

re: #252 WindUpBird

[Link: www.gibson.com...]

best story ever

Instead of 'Jesus Saves' we now have Metal Saves. Who'da thunk?

260 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:25:51pm

re: #249 Jadespring

Sometimes I wonder what it is about Firefly. For a long time I thought I was the only one who was that upset. I don't usually get too fussed about a tv show, they come they go but this one I still get angry feelings about.

How many years has it been? 6 or 7 years? Nuts if you think about it.

What is it about Firefly...

Character-driven show that did not always take itself that seriously. And, they dealt with the problems that a small business would face in a realistic manner without dropping back to a bunch of technobabble.

And, essentially, it was a western re-cast into a SF setting. Former confederates trying to get by in rough frontier and willing to dip over into criminal activity while trying to avoid the cavalry and the Indians.

Given it's anti-government bits I'm surprised the Tea Party hasn't latched onto the series yet as a pre-emptive warning of what is going to happen to us disguised as a SF series... (/)

261 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:26:21pm

Back later I have to go do something that I don't want to do and putting it off is not going to mean I won't still have to do it....

262 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:27:12pm

re: #249 Jadespring

Sometimes I wonder what it is about Firefly. For a long time I thought I was the only one who was that upset. I don't usually get too fussed about a tv show, they come they go but this one I still get angry feelings about.

How many years has it been? 6 or 7 years? Nuts if you think about it.

What is it about Firefly...

for me, it was a set of incredibly likeable characters + a unique but very flexible setting. sci-fi can often be stretched too far, losing credibility, but the characters stayed so true to type that they kept a foundation from which each episode could start.

yeah, i may have pondered this for a few minutes over the past few years...

263 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:27:17pm

re: #259 BigPapa

Instead of 'Jesus Saves' we now have Metal Saves. Who'da thunk?

Just waiting for Metallica to come out and say they deserve the credit because it was really one of their songs...

264 Gus  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:27:18pm

There's no way I could listen to the whole thing. Who in the world is the moron with the high pitched cartoon voice?

Once again another pathetic example of the mainstreaming of ignorance and and now bullying in American society.

And this is the voice of conservative America?

265 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:28:12pm

re: #262 Aceofwhat?

for me, it was a set of incredibly likeable characters + a unique but very flexible setting. sci-fi can often be stretched too far, losing credibility, but the characters stayed so true to type that they kept a foundation from which each episode could start.

yeah, i may have pondered this for a few minutes over the past few years...

It took me a long time to give that show a try because the idea of a Sci-Fi/Western just seemed so wrong to me.

266 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:28:56pm

re: #260 oaktree

agree 100%. if your characters are outstanding, you can do a lot with a show.

267 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:29:13pm

re: #265 JasonA

It took me a long time to give that show a try because the idea of a Sci-Fi/Western just seemed so wrong to me.

Why does sci-fi always have to be futuristic?

268 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:29:24pm

re: #261 Jadespring

Back later I have to go do something that I don't want to do and putting it off is not going to mean I won't still have to do it...

Could you repeat that for my kids some time, please?

269 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:29:57pm

re: #265 JasonA

It took me a long time to give that show a try because the idea of a Sci-Fi/Western just seemed so wrong to me.

same here. then i saw Serenity and thought 'dear God, i was blind and now i see...'

270 Mickey_being_mickey  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:30:00pm

So I'm guessing that the Blaze will actually monitor and removed abusive and violent comments? Oh wait,it was Piven's fault she has threats against her. So nevermind.

271 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:30:29pm

re: #265 JasonA

It took me a long time to give that show a try because the idea of a Sci-Fi/Western just seemed so wrong to me.

Which is weird because if you think about it Sci-Fi and westerns have a lot in common, both of them tend to be about taking things to the boundries of what is known out beyond the firmly established grip of civilization and have dramatic encounters with the natives...

272 darthstar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:31:50pm

re: #252 WindUpBird

[Link: www.gibson.com...]

best story ever

Probably Megadeth doing a cover of a Lee Greenwood song.

273 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:32:17pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Cowboys & Aliens. For realz. Another great one is The Burrowers.

274 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:32:23pm

re: #267 Alouette

Why does sci-fi always have to be futuristic?

Well, technically it doesn't, but it seems weird when you're taking a step back culturally. Zoe, for example, uses a Mare's Leg, which is a sawed-off Winchester rifle, I believe. It makes no sense for that thing to be used in the future.

275 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:32:24pm

re: #264 Gus 802

There's no way I could listen to the whole thing. Who in the world is the moron with the high pitched cartoon voice?

Once again another pathetic example of the mainstreaming of ignorance and and now bullying in American society.

And this is the voice of conservative America?

it appears so...people like me have been Redefined...we huddle in a small group, trying to look bored....ahahaha!

276 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:32:24pm

For once, Beck and his mob have gone after an actual socialist. If nothing else this is a major improvement in their accuracy since they normally hang the label on anyone to the left of, say, Mark Levin.
We know better than to expect the Beckites to stay on the reality track for more than a fragment of a sound-bite though. Socialist and lefty she is, but the notion of Piven as a ringleader of some kind of decades-old communard conspiracy, even a puppet-master holding Obama's strings, is utterly bizarre and fantastic to anyone who knows anything about her. For one thing, her activities have always been right out in the open and they have been conducted within a regular and well-established institutional framework. She is not some crazed radical whipping up mobs and producing guerrilla theater for the benefit of the media.

Her 1972 book, Regulating the Poor: The Functions of Public Welfare, is a very interesting analysis of the subject and may be more relevant today than ever. It has been influential on both sides of the political spectrum.

277 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:33:15pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Which is weird because if you think about it Sci-Fi and westerns have a lot in common, both of them tend to be about taking things to the boundries of what is known out beyond the firmly established grip of civilization and have dramatic encounters with the natives...

Cowboys and Aliens is coming to theaters soon.

278 darthstar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:34:18pm

re: #272 darthstar

Probably Megadeth doing a cover of a Lee Greenwood song.

Heh...just posted the story on Facebook and one of my friends piped in saying it was a Creed song. That'd drive the wolves away alright.

279 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:35:04pm

re: #277 Dreggas

Did Harrison Ford lose a bet?

280 darthstar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:35:18pm

re: #278 darthstar

Heh...just posted the story on Facebook and one of my friends piped in saying it was a Creed song. That'd drive the wolves away alright.

Yep...and here's the CNN story.
[Link: news.blogs.cnn.com...]

281 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:35:46pm

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

282 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:36:11pm

re: #276 Shiplord Kirel

I can't get past the irony that Beck is closely following the 'Rules for Radicals' manual in his obsession going after leftists, real or perceived.

283 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:36:36pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

I certainly wouldn't sign up for one of her classes and might object to the university employing her but she's still entitled to live her life. She's committed no crime.

I agree, and I said so repeatedly. As did Stanley Kurtz. But Beck jokes about the severity of the situation, thus proving himself an asshole.

284 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:36:58pm

re: #279 JasonA

Daniel Craig's also in it, and Sam Rothwell. Spielberg's on board. It might actually be kinda good.

285 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:36:59pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

whoa....that's an unpleasant notion....good god

286 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:37:41pm

I'm being followed on Twitter by something called "The Diary of a Dead Louse"

287 darthstar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:37:45pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

You need to tell this guy his obsession with you is a little creepy.

288 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:37:46pm

re: #284 theheat

PIMF, Sam Rockwell. Love that guy.

289 stevemcg  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:37:50pm

re: #270 Mickey_being_mickey

I hate to be contrarian, but I think that Beck and whoever it is that agrees with every word he says were mocking the writing in the Times' article. But near the end of the clip Beck insists that Piven is still advocating violence. Anybody know anything more about that?

290 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:38:14pm

re: #284 theheat

Daniel Craig's also in it, and Sam Rothwell. Spielberg's on board. It might actually be kinda good.

I'm not sold on Spielberg anymore. Man should have retired oh let's say right before he decided to do Minority Report.

291 Gus  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:38:17pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

I just saw that on Twitter. What the fuck is his problem? Is this the way that the Deputy District Attorney, Hardcore Gang Division, Los Angeles County, Compton, should be speaking?

292 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:38:35pm

re: #278 darthstar

Heh...just posted the story on Facebook and one of my friends piped in saying it was a Creed song. That'd drive the wolves away alright.

Don't get me started on Creed.

293 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:38:45pm

re: #287 darthstar

These people have really sick, disturbing fantasies. Concerning, even.

294 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:38:48pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

Stay Classy, Assholes. And yes, I'd call that kind of graphically violent imagery a threat, just for the benefit of the 'fan club'.

295 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:39:32pm

re: #277 Dreggas

Cowboys and Aliens is coming to theaters soon.


[Video]

wowzerooski!!
looks awesome!

296 Mickey_being_mickey  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:40:02pm

re: #284 theheat

Looks almost like a steampunk movie. I'll bite and go see it this summer

297 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:40:06pm

re: #287 darthstar

You need to tell this guy his obsession with you is a little creepy.

The list of people with creepy obsessions with Charles is quite long, sad to say.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:40:17pm

re: #276 Shiplord Kirel

For once, Beck and his mob have gone after an actual socialist. If nothing else this is a major improvement in their accuracy since they normally hang the label on anyone to the left of, say, Mark Levin.

LOL.

299 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:41:07pm

re: #284 theheat

Daniel Craig's also in it, and Sam Rothwell. Spielberg's on board. It might actually be kinda good.

oh hell yes!
I'm excited to see it, and I'm not much of a movie nut

300 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:41:16pm

What a terrible person Piven is, to call for mass demonstrations by ordinary people to change government policy. Beck's right, anyone who would do that is clearly an enemy of America!!1!!//

301 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:41:43pm

re: #296 Mickey_being_mickey

I think it's a cool concept, and I'll see it "just because." And if you haven't seen The Burrowers, and you like the whole cowboys vs. monsters thing, you need to rent it or buy it off Amazon. It's a gem. A really creepy gem.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:42:06pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

They have a collective front lawn? SOCIALISM!!!!

303 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:42:32pm

re: #292 BigPapa

Don't get me started on Creed.

Youre not the only one who has an issue with Creed...

304 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:43:26pm

re: #292 BigPapa

Don't get me started on Creed.

I don't get it...what am I supposed to be thinking here?

305 Mickey_being_mickey  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:43:58pm

re: #289 stevemcg

It's possible. With Beck anything is possible. Mentally he still lives in the Red Scare of the 50's, so I'm sure he thinks Piven truly wants an armed revolution.

And hey if Beck can make a quick buck, then all the better.

306 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:44:40pm

re: #305 Mickey_being_mickey

And hey if Beck can make a quick buck, then all the better.

As long as he's paid in g-o-l-d, of course.

307 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:45:17pm

Well that was quick. Looks like I won't be able to do what I was supposed to do.

The truck won't start. The cold has kufuddled it.

Not that I'm that upset I didn't want to drive in the snow anyways.

Looks like the dogs will be getting lots of rice and oatmeal mixed with their dog food tonight.

308 leftynyc  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:46:26pm

re: #25 Blizzard


That's ALL sarah does. Whine, whine, whine. She's treated sooooo badly by the lamestream media. Same women who told Hilary Clinton to buck up and suck up all the media criticism. Sarah is vile.

309 Mickey_being_mickey  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:46:28pm

re: #301 theheat

Burrowers? I'll have to check it out. I tend to watch alot of anime since they have more then a few good sci-fi westerns and steampunk series. But anything good is worth checking out.

310 stevemcg  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:46:48pm

re: #307 Jadespring

Be careful not to mix the dog food with your rice and oatmeal.

311 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:47:32pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

These Deputy District Attorneys, always with the upright pike fantasies.

312 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:48:02pm

re: #304 albusteve

I don't get it...what am I supposed to be thinking here?

You're not supposed to be thinking, you're supposed to be laughing at stupid shit.

313 theheat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:48:07pm

re: #309 Mickey_being_mickey

It's one of the ones that makes you take a shower to get the creep factor off you after you watch it. They took creepy and ran with it.

314 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:49:26pm

re: #291 Gus 802

I just saw that on Twitter. What the fuck is his problem? Is this the way that the Deputy District Attorney, Hardcore Gang Division, Los Angeles County, Compton, should be speaking?

Is that who Aaron Worthing is?

315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:49:37pm

re: #307 Jadespring

They'll eat it, and they'll LIKE IT!

316 albusteve  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:49:45pm

re: #312 BigPapa

You're not supposed to be thinking, you're supposed to be laughing at stupid shit.

aha....I guess I'm just old

317 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:49:54pm

re: #295 albusteve

Yeah I wanna see it myself.

318 Gus  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:51:18pm

re: #314 Aceofwhat?

Is that who Aaron Worthing is?

Oh. Guess not. But Pat runs that website.

319 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:53:13pm

re: #286 Alouette

I'm being followed on Twitter by something called "The Diary of a Dead Louse"

I don't google any music, lit, or political reference to that term. That's weird in itself.

320 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:53:16pm

re: #318 Gus 802

Oh. Guess not. But Pat runs that website.

No problem...i thought that was Pat, too, but then your comment made me wonder if i'd gotten it mixed up.

Still, the question is extremely valid. And the answer is, unfortunately, clear.

321 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:53:22pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

They cannot tell the difference between dissent and naked terrorism. Vaclav Havel

322 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:55:27pm

re: #259 BigPapa

Instead of 'Jesus Saves' we now have Metal Saves. Who'da thunk?

metal often saves :D

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Just the best story, this Iraqi metal band

323 Gus  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:55:37pm

re: #320 Aceofwhat?

No problem...i thought that was Pat, too, but then your comment made me wonder if i'd gotten it mixed up.

Still, the question is extremely valid. And the answer is, unfortunately, clear.

Thanks for pointing that out. I adjusted my Tweet.

324 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:56:07pm

re: #300 aagcobb

What a terrible person Piven is, to call for mass demonstrations by ordinary people to change government policy. Beck's right, anyone who would do that is clearly an enemy of America!!1!!//

Be careful about defending her. Politically, she's not a good person. Calling for mass demonstrations "on the model of Greece" can clearly be read as advocating violence, given how violent that Greek riots were (featuring looting a fatal arson). And this isn't the first time she's talked like that. She's done it enough to make clear she thinks that spilling some blood would be worth it for the changes she wants. She really is a radical socialist.

325 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:56:13pm

re: #212 Ericus58

We were -this- clsoe to going with Lexx first... we might actually switch up.

Do.

326 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:56:55pm

re: #319 Decatur Deb

I don't google any music, lit, or political reference to that term. That's weird in itself.

It's the stalker blog. I call them "a dead louse" which is a pun on what they call themselves.

327 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:57:12pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

Lexx is much more gutter than Farscape :D Lower production values, sort of depraved, and REALLY FUNNY, especially when you get into later seasons.

The last season relatuvely sucked though.

328 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:58:00pm

re: #326 Alouette

Ah. A bit less threatening, then.

329 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:58:48pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Be careful about defending her. Politically, she's not a good person. Calling for mass demonstrations "on the model of Greece" can clearly be read as advocating violence, given how violent that Greek riots were (featuring looting a fatal arson). And this isn't the first time she's talked like that. She's done it enough to make clear she thinks that spilling some blood would be worth it for the changes she wants. She really is a radical socialist.

Er...

330 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:59:36pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Be careful about defending her. Politically, she's not a good person. Calling for mass demonstrations "on the model of Greece" can clearly be read as advocating violence, given how violent that Greek riots were (featuring looting a fatal arson). And this isn't the first time she's talked like that. She's done it enough to make clear she thinks that spilling some blood would be worth it for the changes she wants. She really is a radical socialist.

Dark, isn't disproving the statement about how "on the model of Greece" can be seen as a call to violence the point of Charles' post number 114 on this thread?

I think one of us is confused and I'm not sure who it is....

331 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:00:05pm

re: #326 Alouette

It's the stalker blog. I call them "a dead louse" which is a pun on what they call themselves.

Louse is tame. Could have been worse ///

332 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:01:43pm

At least two UK citizens dead in Domodedovo.

333 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:02:05pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

I read her article in The Nation, and to me it sounded like little more than wistfully hoping that unemployed Americans would demonstrate and demand that government do something to relieve their plight. I haven't seen any signs that she, or anyone else on the Left, is actually organizing mass demonstrations, have you?

334 Gus  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:02:18pm

re: #320 Aceofwhat?

No problem...i thought that was Pat, too, but then your comment made me wonder if i'd gotten it mixed up.

Still, the question is extremely valid. And the answer is, unfortunately, clear.

Although it could be a nom de plume.

335 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:04:16pm

Instapundit links to Ann Althouse...

And one of Althouse’s comments suggests that the logic of blaming Beck is this: “Because if Americans learn the truth of what the Left really is, they’ll want to shoot them.” Thus, accurate quotes are an incitement to violence!

Posted at 2:49 pm by Glenn Reynolds

I wonder what Professor Reynolds fellow university employess think about him justifying death threat against academics.
Other comments from the althouse thread...

Here's a clue for all you Brownshirt Leftists out there: if you advocate violence against me and mine, you should be put down like the rabid dog you are.
336 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:04:39pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Be careful about defending her. Politically, she's not a good person. Calling for mass demonstrations "on the model of Greece" can clearly be read as advocating violence, given how violent that Greek riots were (featuring looting a fatal arson). And this isn't the first time she's talked like that. She's done it enough to make clear she thinks that spilling some blood would be worth it for the changes she wants. She really is a radical socialist.

*rolls eyes*

it's really not worth arguing with this, just let me be clear you are completely misrepresenting the thrust of that article and overlaying your own prejudices on top of it.

337 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:05:03pm

Jared Lee Loughner plead not guilty.

Well, raise my rent.

338 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:05:25pm

re: #114 Charles

Here's the article that the right wing is currently using to smear Piven with: Mobilizing the Jobless | The Nation

At the National Review, Stanley Kurtz seized on this one phrase to claim that Piven was advocating that the unemployed should riot in the US.

But read the whole article. You may not agree with her politics, but she's making a point that's hard to deny -- that mass protests can affect governmental policies. She doesn't "call for rioting," as Kurtz falsely claimed -- she predicts mass protests due to unemployment and says the progressive movement should join those protests.

Agree or disagree with this analysis, it's nothing but a distortion to say it's a call for violence.

HEADS UP, DARK FALCON, WE APPEAR TO HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINIONS

339 Gus  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:05:56pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

Aaron Worthing is another attorney.

[Link: www.blogger.com...]

About Me

A.W.

Just a regular, sort of cranky moderately conservative lawyer, living in the greater Washington, D.C. and ruminating on law, life and the local spectator sport known as politics. Btw, if you want to email me, write to...

340 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:06:13pm

re: #337 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Jared Lee Loughner plead not guilty.

Well, raise my rent.

Wow... his trial promises to be an endless supply of both herp and derp at this rate...

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:06:17pm

re: #335 Killgore Trout

Instapundit links to Ann Althouse...

I wonder what Professor Reynolds fellow university employess think about him justifying death threat against academics.
Other comments from the althouse thread...

Power fantasies!

"I'm totally going to kill that hypothetical leftist guy with a gun I don't own, also I'm just a guy on the internet who talks tough whoooooo"

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:07:57pm

re: #337 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Jared Lee Loughner plead not guilty.

Well, raise my rent.

By reason of insanity, or is he saying some other dude done it?

343 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:08:25pm

re: #341 WindUpBird

Power fantasies!

"I'm totally going to kill that hypothetical leftist guy with a gun I don't own, also I'm just a guy on the internet who talks tough whooo"

"I am the life of the party and women are too initmidated to talk to me, which is why they avoid eye contact and move away when I approach."

344 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:09:02pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

By reason of insanity, or is he saying some other dude done it?

I assume he is gonna say it was Sarah Palin's fault, after all, he is a leftist.

/

345 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:09:41pm

re: #339 Gus 802

Another cranky ruminant.

346 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:09:47pm

re: #343 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"I am the life of the party and women are too initmidated to talk to me, which is why they avoid eye contact and move away when I approach."

They recoil before the glory of my intellect!

347 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:09:54pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

Now you know as much as I do.

348 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:09:57pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

The defense doesn't have to notify the prosecution of their theory of the case when they initially enter their plea.

349 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:10:25pm

re: #348 aagcobb

The defense doesn't have to notify the prosecution of their theory of the case when they initially enter their plea.

Something tells me he's PROBABLY PLEADING CRAZY

350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:10:49pm

re: #346 WindUpBird

They recoil before the glory of my intellect!

Fuck 'em. They're all lesbians.

LESBIANS! I tells ya!

351 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:11:02pm

re: #346 WindUpBird

They recoil before the glory of my intellect!

BASK IN MY MAJESTY!

352 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:11:08pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

She didn't "call for mass demonstrations on the model of Greece" at all. That's a willful misreading of the article. She's not "calling" for anything -- she's making the point that mass demonstrations can affect government policies, which seems pretty undeniable, and she cites the protests and riots in Greece as one example. She also mentions the student protests in Britain.

Stanley Kurtz's article at the National Review is just crap.

353 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:11:13pm

re: #333 aagcobb

I read her article in The Nation, and to me it sounded like little more than wistfully hoping that unemployed Americans would demonstrate and demand that government do something to relieve their plight. I haven't seen any signs that she, or anyone else on the Left, is actually organizing mass demonstrations, have you?

No they aren't. Because what happened in Greece was not 'organized' at least not in the way that one would go about organizing a demo that will happen at the National Mall next month. If something like Greece was to happen in the US it will happen because of circumstance and not because some article in the Nation has a lady yabbering on about "possibilities".

354 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:12:01pm

Weatherman predicted ran this Spring. Lets hunt him down for causing floods!

355 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:12:10pm

re: #349 WindUpBird

That would be a good guess. All the defense can really hope to accomplish is to try to keep him off Death Row.

356 garhighway  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:12:33pm

On a somewhat related note: Arizona GOPer says that abortion rights led to the Tuscon shootings:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:13:15pm

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I read that three times... then thought... Preview is my friend...

358 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:13:56pm

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Weatherman predicted ran this Spring. Lets hunt him down for causing floods!

///An "Weaterman" you say... Just like DUN-TAH-DUN-DUN-DAH... BILL AYERS!

359 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:14:28pm

re: #356 garhighway

On a somewhat related note: Arizona GOPer says that abortion rights led to the Tuscon shootings:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Disappointing that he didn't manage to work in some blame for teh gays there.

360 BishopX  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:14:36pm

re: #352 Charles

My take on the Nation article is that she is analyzing why we haven't had protests like Greece and Britain, granted she is explicitly in favor of a mass social movement to force Obama to enact some sort of new deal, but she isn't calling for riots.

361 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:15:35pm

re: #352 Charles

She didn't "call for mass demonstrations on the model of Greece" at all. That's a willful misreading of the article. She's not "calling" for anything -- she's making the point that mass demonstrations can affect government policies, which seems pretty undeniable, and she cites the protests and riots in Greece as one example. She also mentions the student protests in Britain.

Stanley Kurtz's article at the National Review is just crap.

No, she didn't call for that. But she's hoping for some sort of 'social movement from the bottom'. She's not inciting violence; she's hoping for stupidity. The proper response from Kurtz et al would be to roll eyes and move along, not pretend that she is calling for violence.

362 garhighway  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:16:16pm

re: #359 iossarian

Disappointing that he didn't manage to work in some blame for teh gays there.

Give it time.

363 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:16:24pm

re: #351 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

BASK IN MY MAJESTY!

DO YOU DENY MY GODHOOD?!?!?

/m bison

364 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:16:25pm

re: #361 Aceofwhat?

No, she didn't call for that. But she's hoping for some sort of 'social movement from the bottom'. She's not inciting violence; she's hoping for stupidity. The proper response from Kurtz et al would be to roll eyes and move along, not pretend that she is calling for violence.

Not all social movements from the bottom are stupid.

365 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:17:23pm

re: #363 WindUpBird

DO YOU DENY MY GODHOOD?!?!?

/m bison

Upding for m bison reference.

366 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:17:25pm

re: #361 Aceofwhat?

No, she didn't call for that. But she's hoping for some sort of 'social movement from the bottom'.

We have one of those already: The Tea Party! Shot right out of a monkey's bottom at that!!!

367 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:17:39pm

re: #359 iossarian

Disappointing that he didn't manage to work in some blame for teh gays there.

He should also have mentioned evilution, school prayer and posting the 10 Commandments.

368 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:18:15pm

re: #365 iossarian

Upding for m bison reference.

I went to EVO a couple years back. I'm a terrible player, though :D but GOD I love the Street Fighter movie

369 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:18:17pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

The usual right-wing violent macho fantasy crap.

"I want to be invisible. I do guerilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag." —Ralph Reed, 1991

[Link: books.google.com...]

370 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:19:23pm

re: #369 CuriousLurker

The usual right-wing violent macho fantasy crap.

This just really describes it perfectly.

371 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:19:49pm

re: #353 Jadespring

No they aren't. Because what happened in Greece was not 'organized' at least not in the way that one would go about organizing a demo that will happen at the National Mall next month. If something like Greece was to happen in the US it will happen because of circumstance and not because some article in the Nation has a lady yabbering on about "possibilities".

I should have written 'circumstances coming together".

Another example is what just happened in Tunisia. That wasn't organized. There was no date..."We're going to go out in the street and over through the government on January 10th at 2 am sharp. Be there or be left behind!!"
Several events came together, there was an underlying atmosphere of discontent that these events occured upon and boom you have masses of people taking to the streets in protest and anger...most of the organizing through things like twitter and the net happened after the thing had hit the flashpoint.

372 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:19:49pm

re: #367 aagcobb

He should also have mentioned evilution, school prayer and posting the 10 Commandments.

Boys with long hair, girls in jeans, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!

373 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:20:25pm

re: #369 CuriousLurker

The usual right-wing violent macho fantasy crap.


[Link: books.google.com...]

I got a knife with a compass in the hilt and I'm not ascared to use it!

374 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:20:50pm

re: #361 Aceofwhat?

What would be stupid about the unemployed marching for jobs? Makes a lot more sense than what the Teabaggers have been marching for.

375 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:21:35pm

re: #364 Charles

Not all social movements from the bottom are stupid.

any imminent social movement from the bottom whose aim is to improve the American economy would be stupid.

376 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:21:41pm

re: #361 Aceofwhat?

No, she didn't call for that. But she's hoping for some sort of 'social movement from the bottom'. She's not inciting violence; she's hoping for stupidity. The proper response from Kurtz et al would be to roll eyes and move along, not pretend that she is calling for violence.

Which is absolutely identical to the argument that Beck and the wingnuts have made countless times.

377 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:21:52pm

re: #373 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I got a knife with a compass in the hilt and I'm not ascared to use it!

it is painted...


CAAAMOUFLAGUE

378 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:22:06pm

re: #366 ralphieboy

We have one of those already: The Tea Party! Shot right out of a monkey's bottom at that!!!

see? stupid! like i said!

379 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:22:24pm

re: #273 theheat

Cowboys & Aliens. For realz. Another great one is The Burrowers.

Now that looks like fun!

380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:22:47pm

So... I'm watching the movie "Blown Away" which doth sucketh a lot. A whole ship just blew up with Jeff Bridges and Forest Whittaker running away. Zero shock wave... would've so killed 'em both. I'm a scientist now, I watch Mythbusters.

Mythbusters is exactly a moviemaker's best friend.

Really. This doth sucketh immensely.

381 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:22:48pm

re: #373 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I got a knife with a compass in the hilt and I'm not ascared to use it!

re: #377 WindUpBird

it is painted...

CAAAMOUFLAGUE

*snort*

382 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:22:57pm

re: #375 Aceofwhat?

any imminent social movement from the bottom whose aim is to improve the American economy would be stupid.

I don't think it'd change the economy, just maybe make it slightly easier on those who are getting their lives all ruined up by the economy ;-)

Squeaky wheel gets the grease and stuff

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:23:23pm

re: #377 WindUpBird

it is painted...

CAAAMOUFLAGUE

I ain't scared. Now you can't find it.

384 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:23:39pm

re: #374 aagcobb

What would be stupid about the unemployed marching for jobs? Makes a lot more sense than what the Teabaggers have been marching for.

right. because then the jobs would just magically appear!

dude.

385 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:24:49pm

Dow has climbed in anticipation of Rep. Bachmann's response to the SOTU.

386 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:25:03pm

Marriott's $106 million dollar favor for Mitt Romney

In 2008 Romney's time on the board of Marriott hotel's was a persistent headache with social conservatives. High profile Republicans in Iowa denounced the fact that Marriott made a substantial amount of money playing "hard core pornography" in its hotel rooms. As Politico notes he was even referred to as a "major pornographer." Two weeks ago Mitt Romney stepped down from Marriott's board.

This weekend Marriot announced that they would no longer be offering pornography in their hotel rooms. One of Ben Smith's readers notes that while sales of pornographic movies are declining in hotels they still account for about $175 per room for Marriott chains.

How big of a favor is Marriott's decision to drop pornographic movies for Mitt Romney? Marriott's stock reports indicate that they have 607,000 rooms in fiscal year 2010. At $175 per room that adds up to Marriott giving up $106 million dollars in revenue to make Mitt's courting of social cons a little easier.

387 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:25:17pm

re: #384 Aceofwhat?

right. because then the jobs would just magically appear!

dude.

actttually, if we compelled a few gigantic corporations to start hiring instead of stockpiling cash moneys...

what is good for an individual company's survival is often not good for jobs or America. If everyone takes their money out the bank collapses, etc etc etc etc

388 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:25:53pm

re: #385 Decatur Deb

Dow has climbed in anticipation of Rep. Bachmann's response to the SOTU.

I heard it was that Eric Cantor blew his nose and the traders took it as a sign of seven years of plenty.

389 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:26:08pm

re: #373 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
...Giggle...I've had to take myself FAR to serious today and will not chime in until such time I can organize my thoughts without interruption....
Tomorrow's not looking good either but we'll see!
Is the knife of legal length??

390 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:26:11pm

re: #384 Aceofwhat?

With that attitude, there would be no reason to ever demonstrate. King's march on Washington didn't magically bring about racial justice, but it sure helped us move forward.

391 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:26:13pm

re: #384 Aceofwhat?

right. because then the jobs would just magically appear!

dude.

Maybe not. And no I don't think it's imminent. Too much bread and circuses to keep the masses lulled.

It would have to get a lot worse then it is now.

However if something like Greece happened in the US, you might think it's stupid and dumb but good luck at trying to stop it.

392 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:26:23pm

re: #382 WindUpBird

I don't think it'd change the economy, just maybe make it slightly easier on those who are getting their lives all ruined up by the economy ;-)

Squeaky wheel gets the grease and stuff

march because your kids are stuck in a terrible school and there's been no change. march because we lock up hordes in jail for owning a small amount of a harmless plant.

don't march to ask for something that the president didn't take away and doesn't have the power to create. because that would be stupid!

393 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:26:55pm

re: #384 Aceofwhat?

Magic doesn't have to be involved. If US corporations get the feeling that the US public is actually directing their anger against them, for their policies of offshoring jobs, of squeezing workers for more productivity even as they enjoy record profits, it may actually prompt them to adjust policies and create more jobs in the US.

The current situation cannot last forever. The US doesn't have a magical hand that ensures that it will always have a middle class. If corporations continue to take jobs out of the US at the rate that they are, if the wealth disparity continues to widen at the rate that it is, our society, and our nation, will not last.

394 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:27:04pm

re: #339 Gus 802

Aaron Worthing is another attorney.

[Link: www.blogger.com...]

We had one of those:

A.W.

This user is blocked.

Karma: -172
Registered since: Nov 26, 2007 at 9:53 am

No. of comments posted: 515
No. of links posted: 1

395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:27:16pm

re: #386 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

195.00 per night? or per year. At ten bucks a pop (I'm uh... guessing. That's the ticket! I'm

guessing

!). Only 20 movies.

396 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:27:31pm

re: #391 Jadespring

Maybe not. And no I don't think it's imminent. Too much bread and circuses to keep the masses lulled.

It would have to get a lot worse then it is now.

However if something like Greece happened in the US, you might think it's stupid and dumb but good luck at trying to stop it.

yeah, pretty much

also, decentralized country, everyone spread out, difficult to organize people who live far apart and don't have much money to travel long distances

397 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:27:39pm

re: #389 reloadingisnotahobby

...Giggle...I've had to take myself FAR to serious today and will not chime in until such time I can organize my thoughts without interruption...
Tomorrow's not looking good either but we'll see!
Is the knife of legal length??

THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T LEGISLATE MY PHALLIC INFERENCES!

398 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:27:48pm

re: #388 iossarian

I heard it was that Eric Cantor blew his nose and the traders took it as a sign of seven years of plentyPawlenty.

399 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:28:01pm

re: #393 Obdicut

Magic doesn't have to be involved. If US corporations get the feeling that the US public is actually directing their anger against them, for their policies of offshoring jobs, of squeezing workers for more productivity even as they enjoy record profits, it may actually prompt them to adjust policies and create more jobs in the US.

The current situation cannot last forever. The US doesn't have a magical hand that ensures that it will always have a middle class. If corporations continue to take jobs out of the US at the rate that they are, if the wealth disparity continues to widen at the rate that it is, our society, and our nation, will not last.


this

400 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:28:03pm

re: #386 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I will never stay at the Marriot inn again.

I read that the Catholic Church instituted a ruling that priests can only stay in hotel rooms if the porno chanels have been disabled.

So a priest checks into a hotel and asks "Is the porn channel disabled?"

"No," replies the check-in clerk, "it's all able-bodied porn."

401 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:28:35pm

re: #387 WindUpBird

actttually, if we compelled a few gigantic corporations to start hiring instead of stockpiling cash moneys...

what is good for an individual company's survival is often not good for jobs or America. If everyone takes their money out the bank collapses, etc etc etc etc

you mean if we could arrive at a set of incentives that would make it more attractive to hire folks? i agree! welcome to the dark side, my new right-center friend!

(well, new to the right-center...not new to being my friend...you get the gist)

402 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:28:39pm

re: #391 Jadespring

Maybe not. And no I don't think it's imminent. Too much bread and circuses to keep the masses lulled.

It would have to get a lot worse then it is now.

However if something like Greece happened in the US, you might think it's stupid and dumb but good luck at trying to stop it.

Won't happen. Greece is still acting out the aftermath of a bloody civil war. We have resolved our war completely, with no trace of animus.

403 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:29:12pm

re: #391 Jadespring

Maybe not. And no I don't think it's imminent. Too much bread and circuses to keep the masses lulled.

It would have to get a lot worse then it is now.

However if something like Greece happened in the US, you might think it's stupid and dumb but good luck at trying to stop it.

yes. on that we are agreed.

404 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:29:37pm

re: #402 Decatur Deb

Won't happen. Greece is still acting out the aftermath of a bloody civil war. We have resolved our war completely, with no trace of animus.

Here have some of mine "///" I have plenty.

405 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:29:58pm

re: #392 Aceofwhat?

don't march to ask for something that the president didn't take away and doesn't have the power to create. because that would be stupid!

Who says it would be a march against the President. I could sooner see mass protests happening around Wall Streeters/Corps and supposed gov't collusion then just the president. The protest in Greece were as much protesting the economic elite as they were against the government. All nice and combined together.

406 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:29:58pm

re: #401 Aceofwhat?

you mean if we could arrive at a set of incentives that would make it more attractive to hire folks? i agree! welcome to the dark side, my new right-center friend!

(well, new to the right-center...not new to being my friend...you get the gist)

How about we just end the tax break for off-shoring jobs that the GOP so recently protected?

407 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:29:59pm

this is one of the best Onion News Networks I've ever heard [Link: www.theonion.com...]

408 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:30:12pm

re: #394 wrenchwench

We had one of those:

Ah ha! The reason for the butthurt.

409 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:30:13pm

re: #404 rwdflynavy

Been here a year--they know by now.

410 webevintage  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:30:14pm

re: #402 Decatur Deb

Won't happen. Greece is still acting out the aftermath of a bloody civil war. We have resolved our war completely, with no trace of animus.


did someone forget on of these "/"?

411 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:30:39pm

re: #396 WindUpBird

yeah, pretty much

also, decentralized country, everyone spread out, difficult to organize people who live far apart and don't have much money to travel long distances

How is it that a horde of anarchists always shows up whenever there is one of these Global Economic summits in these luxury resort towns? Does Soros pay for all their transport?

//

412 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:30:40pm

re: #401 Aceofwhat?

you mean if we could arrive at a set of incentives that would make it more attractive to hire folks? i agree! welcome to the dark side, my new right-center friend!

(well, new to the right-center...not new to being my friend...you get the gist)

Oh no my friend. Not incentives. law! :D You must hire, you must bring jobs back, or you're fucked. Law!

413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:30:56pm

It'd be funny if Rahm was not allowed to run. I don't really care.

But I'd laugh my ass off.

414 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:31:04pm

re: #330 jamesfirecat

Dark, isn't disproving the statement about how "on the model of Greece" can be seen as a call to violence the point of Charles' post number 114 on this thread?

I think one of us is confused and I'm not sure who it is...

I hear what Charles is saying but in this case I do not agree. Piven has gone that direction too many times. I believe that Stanley Kurtz is correct about her.

415 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:31:10pm

re: #401 Aceofwhat?

you mean if we could arrive at a set of incentives that would make it more attractive to hire folks? i agree! welcome to the dark side, my new right-center friend!

Trying to find ways of increasing employment is not a center-right goal, specifically.

What is "center-right" (in the US, i.e. off the charts right wing in many other countries) is the belief that ceding power to corporations achieves this goal.

416 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:31:26pm

re: #393 Obdicut

Magic doesn't have to be involved. If US corporations get the feeling that the US public is actually directing their anger against them, for their policies of offshoring jobs, of squeezing workers for more productivity even as they enjoy record profits, it may actually prompt them to adjust policies and create more jobs in the US.

The current situation cannot last forever. The US doesn't have a magical hand that ensures that it will always have a middle class. If corporations continue to take jobs out of the US at the rate that they are, if the wealth disparity continues to widen at the rate that it is, our society, and our nation, will not last.

You raise good points, except for the one where mass outbursts of public anger would increase rather than suppress job creation. Want to derail this recovery we're about to see? Easy. Go mass protest and freak the market out.

417 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:31:30pm

re: #410 webevintage

did someone forget on of these "/"?

I need a symbol for "No, I'm not being sarcastic this time."

418 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:32:45pm

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wonder if he can collect unemployment?

419 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:32:58pm

re: #405 Jadespring

Who says it would be a march against the President. I could sooner see mass protests happening around Wall Streeters/Corps and supposed gov't collusion then just the president. The protest in Greece were as much protesting the economic elite as they were against the government. All nice and combined together.

making the market go kaboom, as a result. sounds like a recipe for anti-recovery to me.

(i know you're not advocating it, far from it, but i can't conceive of a mass protest that doesn't do more harm than good at present, and apparently, neither can my friends here at LGF.)

420 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:33:01pm

re: #416 Aceofwhat?

You raise good points, except for the one where mass outbursts of public anger would increase rather than suppress job creation. Want to derail this recovery we're about to see? Easy. Go mass protest and freak the market out.

Oooh, no, the market!

WHACK!

Thank you Mr. Market! May I have another?

421 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:33:03pm

re: #416 Aceofwhat?

You raise good points, except for the one where mass outbursts of public anger would increase rather than suppress job creation. Want to derail this recovery we're about to see? Easy. Go mass protest and freak the market out.

What are you talking about? How would mass protest freak the market out?

Do protesters not buy things or something?

422 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:33:09pm

Took a while to find it, but...

Image: AzoUoyxk8KN4e6d.jpg

I'm ready to fight the oppression now.

423 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:33:39pm

re: #415 iossarian

Trying to find ways of increasing employment is not a center-right goal, specifically.

What is "center-right" (in the US, i.e. off the charts right wing in many other countries) is the belief that ceding power to corporations achieves this goal.

"ceding power"?

you get that as a straight translation for "incentives"?

nice.

424 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:33:57pm

re: #411 Alouette

How is it that a horde of anarchists always shows up whenever there is one of these Global Economic summits in these luxury resort towns? Does Soros pay for all their transport?

//

No. They have fundraisers and a lot of them actually have jobs to pay for it all.

425 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:34:36pm

re: #417 Decatur Deb

I need a symbol for "No, I'm not being sarcastic this time."


...Try "And I ain't kiddin neither"....
..or.."For real dude"!

426 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:34:53pm

re: #405 Jadespring

Who says it would be a march against the President. I could sooner see mass protests happening around Wall Streeters/Corps and supposed gov't collusion then just the president. The protest in Greece were as much protesting the economic elite as they were against the government. All nice and combined together.

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

427 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:35:33pm

re: #421 Obdicut

What are you talking about? How would mass protest freak the market out?

Do protesters not buy things or something?

really? civil unrest and the market just shrugs? you need a refresher on consumer sentiment and its relationship to the economy?

428 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:35:57pm

re: #423 Aceofwhat?

"ceding power"?

you get that as a straight translation for "incentives"?

nice.

I assumed you were talking about supply-side economics, more or less. Mostly, right-wing politicians in the US push for less regulation of business (which is ceding regulatory power) and lower corporate taxation (which is ceding financial power).

429 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:36:12pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

If the Steelers win, you will probably see more destruction in the Pittsburgh celebrations.

430 morrisab  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:36:19pm

re: #249 Jadespring

Sometimes I wonder what it is about Firefly. For a long time I thought I was the only one who was that upset. I don't usually get too fussed about a tv show, they come they go but this one I still get angry feelings about.

How many years has it been? 6 or 7 years? Nuts if you think about it.

What is it about Firefly...

The boy and I caught Serenity yesterday on SyFy. He started to yell at me that he had to do his homework, and then he heard Jayne say, "Sure would be nice if we had some grenades," and it was like a cartoon, how his mouth fell open and he turned in slow motion to the screen. Firefly is made of awesome. Joss needs to have a show on every night of the week on every network. Otherwise the universe just isn't fair.

431 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:36:30pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

How'd that work out during Rodney King?

432 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:36:43pm

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It'd be funny if Rahm was not allowed to run. I don't really care.

But I'd laugh my ass off.

No, it won't be funny. It might mean Carol Mosley Braun as mayor of Chicago, and she'd be an utter disaster in the role. Hope Rahm's appeal succeeds, for my sake.

433 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:36:56pm

Frances Fox Piven Is Not Afraid of You and She Will Kick Your Ass

The Rude Pundit is going to describe, in short, the infamous Cloward-Piven Strategy, a 1966 plot concocted in the minds of two Uhmerka-hating enemies, Profs. Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, according to Glenn Beck and the nutzoid right. Are you ready? Can you take it? Because you're about to discover the network, motherfuckers. You are about to look into the filthy roots of the tree of radicalism, you ignorant bastards, and get your brains dirty. For, indeed, it is something so insidious, so contemptuous of everything that Uhmerka stands for that it would force Uhmerka to its knees and beg for the socialist raping to stop. Holy shit, here it comes:

People who are eligible for welfare benefits should sign up for them.

434 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:37:19pm

re: #427 Aceofwhat?

really? civil unrest and the market just shrugs? you need a refresher on consumer sentiment and its relationship to the economy?

Do you need a refresher course on not being bafflingly patronizing?

Do you understand that mass protest does not equate to 'civil unrest'?

Did MLK's marches hurt the market? Did the Women's Suffrage marches hurt the market? Can you prove, at all, ever, any march hurting the market?

435 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:37:42pm

re: #432 Dark_Falcon

No, it won't be funny. It might mean Carol Mosley Braun as mayor of Chicago, and she'd be an utter disaster in the role. Hope Rahm's appeal succeeds, for my sake.

Okay, I'm calling your bluff, explain why Braun would be a bad mayor?

because everything I've read and heard of the woman, she's brilliant.

Also a star trek/dune geek, she snuck a dune reference and a st reference into one of the primary debates in 2004

436 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:38:03pm

re: #434 Obdicut

Do you need a refresher course on not being bafflingly patronizing?

Do you understand that mass protest does not equate to 'civil unrest'?

Did MLK's marches hurt the market? Did the Women's Suffrage marches hurt the market? Can you prove, at all, ever, any march hurting the market?

also this!

437 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:38:14pm

re: #431 WindUpBird

How'd that work out during Rodney King?

I don't know, but in several cases following Hurricane Andrew just a few armed citizens guarding their property was enough to keep looters away from much larger areas.

438 garhighway  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:38:34pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

You have just defined a law enforcement nightmare: armed yahoos getting in the cops' way.

That is a good way for the "armed citizen opposition" to get shot and killed by cops.

439 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:38:46pm

re: #428 iossarian

I assumed you were talking about supply-side economics, more or less. Mostly, right-wing politicians in the US push for less regulation of business (which is ceding regulatory power) and lower corporate taxation (which is ceding financial power).

less assuming, more reading s'il te plaît.

i am simply saying that incentives are a far more preferable and wise concept to inducing the creation of extra jobs than mass protest. what incentives? i dunno. we could have a fun debate about it.

whether protests make employers all of a sudden desire to invest cash in jobs they aren't yet sure they require...less fun. because it's not really a debate.

440 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:38:58pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

Maybe it'd be possible to have protests of the same size as Greece but of a more orderly nature?

Just asking and hoping?

441 jaunte  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:39:10pm

re: #433 Charles

Next, people might start surviving long enough to draw Social Security benefits.

442 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:39:20pm

re: #419 Aceofwhat?

making the market go kaboom, as a result. sounds like a recipe for anti-recovery to me.

(i know you're not advocating it, far from it, but i can't conceive of a mass protest that doesn't do more harm than good at present, and apparently, neither can my friends here at LGF.)

No I'm not advocating it all. What I am saying though is that if hypothetically it got to the point where people and a lot of people were upset enough to mass protest like would be so bad already that blowing up the market likely wouldn't result in much change. The markets would probably already be screwed already and part of the reason people would be out and protesting in the first place.

443 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:39:21pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon

I don't know, but in several cases following Hurricane Andrew just a few armed citizens guarding their property was enough to keep looters away from much larger areas.

Uh, straggling looters are not equal to lots and lots of focused, motivated, politically furious people.

444 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:39:39pm
445 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:39:59pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon

I don't know, but in several cases following Hurricane Andrew just a few armed citizens guarding their property was enough to keep looters away from much larger areas.

My point is, armed citizens will not come out and save the day if there's a big unemployment protest. That's sooo childish to think that

446 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:40:10pm

re: #431 WindUpBird

How'd that work out during Rodney King?


Rioters and Looters would die.....as they did in the King riots!

447 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:40:14pm

re: #361 Aceofwhat?

No, she didn't call for that. But she's hoping for some sort of 'social movement from the bottom'. She's not inciting violence; she's hoping for stupidity. The proper response from Kurtz et al would be to roll eyes and move along, not pretend that she is calling for violence.

Yeah, political demonstrations demanding government action on high unemployment is totally stupid. /

448 Kragar  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:40:23pm

re: #438 garhighway

You have just defined a law enforcement nightmare: armed yahoos getting in the cops' way.

That is a good way for the "armed citizen opposition" to get shot and killed by cops.

Always the silver lining with you.

449 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:40:24pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, Glenn. Piven is a political malefactor, but to laugh off threats against her is a foolish thing to do. Since if she is harmed, you will be blamed for it.

I certainly don't agree with you there, D_F...while she helped to write the Cloward-Piven Strategy, it died on the vine way back then. Radical it was, but so was a lot academia back then and, besides, they didn't have the juice to even attempt to put into action.

The Cloward-Piven Strategy was (rightly) consigned to the dustbin of history for almost forty years until people on the right brought it up during the 2008 elections as another way to slam Obama. Wingnuts (such as Beck) are still trying to beat him over the head with it, but it didn't work during the elections and it won't work now, because there's nothing there.

Now, Beck's grandstanding is getting Ms. Piven harassed and may wind up getting her hurt or even killed if the wrong sort of wingnut/black helicopter crazy takes this insane, conspiratorial crap to heart (see what happened in Tucson, for starters)...and that's not the American Way I'd like to believe in.

450 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:40:51pm

re: #439 Aceofwhat?

less assuming, more reading s'il te plaît.

i am simply saying that incentives are a far more preferable and wise concept to inducing the creation of extra jobs than mass protest. what incentives? i dunno. we could have a fun debate about it.

whether protests make employers all of a sudden desire to invest cash in jobs they aren't yet sure they require...less fun. because it's not really a debate.

so basically no pressure, just gifts.

Nobody raises their kids like that, why would we treat companies like that? ;-)

451 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:40:53pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

I spent six weeks in Greece. The students protested something or other every weekend. That was not the same as the more recent protests, but my point is that Greece has a looong and proud history of street protests that usually aren't violent in the least.

I grew up in Southern California. I attended street protests, but not riots. Those I caught on TV. There has never been "armed citizen opposition" to a street protest in the US in my lifetime (that clock started ticking in 1958.) I hope if I'm wrong, someone will provide a link.

I'm just trying to ground you in reality a bit.

452 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:41:12pm

re: #447 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, political demonstrations demanding government action on high unemployment is totally stupid. /

I mean I got mine! Why are they so pissed off? Get a job, hippie!

453 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:41:17pm

re: #375 Aceofwhat?

any imminent social movement from the bottom whose aim is to improve the American economy would be stupid.

lolwut

454 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:42:18pm

re: #446 reloadingisnotahobby

Rioters and Looters would die...as they did in the King riots!


See my point: that "armed citizens" will not rise up like playing pieces in a wargame to Stop The Protestors.

455 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:42:33pm

re: #450 WindUpBird

so basically no pressure, just gifts.

Nobody raises their kids like that, why would we treat companies like that? ;-)

Because companies aren't CITIZENS UNITED... oh wait... I guess they are.

456 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:42:54pm

re: #439 Aceofwhat?

less assuming, more reading s'il te plaît.

i am simply saying that incentives are a far more preferable and wise concept to inducing the creation of extra jobs than mass protest. what incentives? i dunno. we could have a fun debate about it.

whether protests make employers all of a sudden desire to invest cash in jobs they aren't yet sure they require...less fun. because it's not really a debate.

I'm not suggesting that protests make employers want to hire people.

What I am suggesting, on the other hand, is that maybe if there are large-scale protests about lack of jobs, the government might decide to enact incentives to hiring that are less business-friendly than they would otherwise consider.

457 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:43:02pm

re: #435 WindUpBird

Okay, I'm calling your bluff, explain why Braun would be a bad mayor?

because everything I've read and heard of the woman, she's brilliant.

Also a star trek/dune geek, she snuck a dune reference and a st reference into one of the primary debates in 2004

She's always come across as clueless to me. Her fondness for Nigerian tyrant Suni Abacha was the FAIL that finished her as Senator from Illinois. While in office, she did fairly little and failed to mind her voters outside Chicago, thus allowing Peter Fitzgerald to defeat her easily in 1998 (I voted for Fitzgerald, of course). She was always a back-bencher and she has not got the strength needed to run Chicago.

458 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:45:01pm

Dog time. BBL

459 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:46:17pm

re: #434 Obdicut

Do you need a refresher course on not being bafflingly patronizing?

Do you understand that mass protest does not equate to 'civil unrest'?

Did MLK's marches hurt the market? Did the Women's Suffrage marches hurt the market? Can you prove, at all, ever, any march hurting the market?

i apologize for the patronizing tone.

here. this affects the market directly. it doesn't tend to go up when bad things are afoot.

460 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:47:05pm

re: #459 Aceofwhat?

Can you please demonstrate a link between protests and the Consumer Confidence Index, and support your argument?

461 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:47:10pm

re: #219 Fozzie Bear

To be perfectly clear, ONE person has made threats to Palin via twitter. Doing it 20 times doesn't make it "threattier".

It's not about the "truth" to some, only the "truthiness" of the situation...

462 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:47:16pm

re: #443 WindUpBird

Uh, straggling looters are not equal to lots and lots of focused, motivated, politically furious people.

That's what baton rounds and tear gas grenades are for. And those can be purchased and deployed effectively by relatively small group to disrupt a riot.

(I am deliberately not discussing the use of lethal force. This is to ensure that I do not run afoul of the forum rules.)

463 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:47:48pm

Oh wait. I do see a possibility for more imminent, if imminent means in the coming years (like 10-20) of big protests. I can totally see people in the US getting upset and protesting higher gas prices if they climb past a certain point.

I wouldn't completely count out protest over food prices occurring if things go shitty with weather and yields are affected over a long period of time. Likely will see that one coming though if it does happen.

464 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:47:56pm

re: #442 Jadespring

No I'm not advocating it all. What I am saying though is that if hypothetically it got to the point where people and a lot of people were upset enough to mass protest like would be so bad already that blowing up the market likely wouldn't result in much change. The markets would probably already be screwed already and part of the reason people would be out and protesting in the first place.

again, i agree completely. mass outbursts as a result of a crash are understandable. mass outbursts to create jobs...not so much.

unless there was a mass outburst centered around a very insightful incentive plan...but that just seems highly unlikely; mass outbursts, with MLK as the exception, tend not to be so well-focused;)

465 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:48:01pm

Seriously, demonstrating to protest government policy that you disagree with is so dumb. I mean, that might upset the market, and then it will demand sacrifices of virgins and underwater mortgages. We mustn't anger the market.

466 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:48:11pm

re: #457 Dark_Falcon

She's always come across as clueless to me. Her fondness for Nigerian tyrant Suni Abacha was the FAIL that finished her as Senator from Illinois. While in office, she did fairly little and failed to mind her voters outside Chicago, thus allowing Peter Fitzgerald to defeat her easily in 1998 (I voted for Fitzgerald, of course). She was always a back-bencher and she has not got the strength needed to run Chicago.

haha yeah, I'm sorry, I consider a senator and ambassador to be qualified for MAYOR. Maybe you believe Chicago is this mindblowingly complicated thing, it's still just a city in the US. You're just making assertions, and I'm finding zero evidence that she was voted out because she visited Abacha.

First african american female senator, you don't get there by being anything BUT strong, dude. IN Illinois? She probably has more access to the levers of power in that town than your wildest dreams can conjure. ;-)

Bluff callllled

467 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:48:38pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

That's what baton rounds and tear gas grenades are for. And those can be purchased and deployed effectively by relatively small group to disrupt a riot.

(I am deliberately not discussing the use of lethal force. This is to ensure that I do not run afoul of the forum rules.)

But are you suggesting that we should have normal non police citizens batoning and tear gassing rioters?

That sounds like a cure worse than the disease to me Dark....

468 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:48:43pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

That's what baton rounds and tear gas grenades are for. And those can be purchased and deployed effectively by relatively small group to disrupt a riot.

(I am deliberately not discussing the use of lethal force. This is to ensure that I do not run afoul of the forum rules.)

you said citizens.


Citizens don't get to just start shooting grenades, dude :D

469 garhighway  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:48:49pm

re: #462 Dark_Falcon

That's what baton rounds and tear gas grenades are for. And those can be purchased and deployed effectively by relatively small group to disrupt a riot.

(I am deliberately not discussing the use of lethal force. This is to ensure that I do not run afoul of the forum rules.)

It sounds to me like you are advocating that some well-meaning but misguided citizens behave in a way that would cause them to get shot by cops.

470 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:49:17pm

re: #467 jamesfirecat

But are you suggesting that we should have normal non police citizens batoning and tear gassing rioters?

That sounds like a cure worse than the disease to me Dark...

NO IT'D BE FUCKING SWEET

SOME GUY HE JUST LIKE, HAS A GRENADE LAUNCHER, AND THEN THERE'S A DINOSAUR AND BATMAN'S RIDING IT, AND HOLY SHIT

471 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:49:20pm

re: #281 Charles

"we just chopped off Charles Johnson’s head and mounted it on a pike on our collective front lawn..."

[Link: lgf.bz...]

What an ignorant, throwback putz.

Patterico, go sit on a snake...

472 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:49:39pm

re: #460 Obdicut

Can you please demonstrate a link between protests and the Consumer Confidence Index, and support your argument?

sure. what do you have from the past 20 years that would qualify?

473 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:50:33pm

re: #433 Charles

Frances Fox Piven Is Not Afraid of You and She Will Kick Your Ass

That was a good read.

She's a fucking fighter, not a milquetoast liberal, and she believes that ensuring equality and rights for all sometimes requires more than listening to a bloated dry drunk frantically etching chalk trees like a mad caveman who doesn't understand why there's seasons. Or tides. Sometimes, it requires people to get off their asses and demand shit. Like, you know, fuck, the Tea Partiers say. Well, for them, that and hating black people.
474 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:50:43pm

re: #465 Fozzie Bear

Seriously, demonstrating to protest government policy that you disagree with is so dumb. I mean, that might upset the market, and then it will demand sacrifices of virgins and underwater mortgages. We mustn't anger the market.

i can't wait to hear exactly which government policy is hiding all of these jobs. because, you know, the reason we have a government is to create jobs, right?

yeesh.

475 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:50:48pm

QUIET GUYS THE MARKET CAN HEAR YOU

476 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:52:15pm

re: #475 Fozzie Bear

QUIET GUYS THE MARKET CAN HEAR YOU

The market does not respond like an infant, shrieking at the first sign of displeasure. The market is patient, and we must be too.....

477 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:52:18pm

re: #472 Aceofwhat?

sure. what do you have from the past 20 years that would qualify?

Anything. You pick. This is your argument, dude. Pick a protest, demonstrate an effect on the Consumer Confidence Index. A causal effect.

478 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:52:20pm

WHY WON'T THE GOVERNMENT MAKE IT ALL BETTER??

479 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:52:25pm

re: #475 Fozzie Bear

QUIET GUYS THE MARKET CAN HEAR YOU


Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball

480 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:52:32pm

re: #364 Charles

Not all social movements from the bottom are stupid.

See: the civil rights movement.

481 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:52:36pm

re: #467 jamesfirecat

But are you suggesting that we should have normal non police citizens batoning and tear gassing rioters?

That sounds like a cure worse than the disease to me Dark...

Yes, if the rioters threaten their homes and businesses. The way to deal with a riot is drop the hammer.

482 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:53:03pm

re: #474 Aceofwhat?

i can't wait to hear exactly which government policy is hiding all of these jobs. because, you know, the reason we have a government is to create jobs, right?

yeesh.

You didn't respond to my particular note about the GOP protecting the tax break for corporations that create jobs overseas. That would be a policy that is moving jobs out of the US, or at least disincentivizing companies from creating them here.

You can address that, if you'd like.

483 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:53:37pm

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

Yes, if the rioters threaten their homes and businesses. The way to deal with a riot is drop the hammer.

Have you, ah, ever talked to any actual riot control cops, anyone who's responsibility it is to control a riot about this?

They, in general, disagree vehemently with you.

484 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:54:27pm

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

Yes, if the rioters threaten their homes and businesses. The way to deal with a riot is drop the hammer.

They have every right to do that yes Dark, but if you ask me, I think if there is a riot so bad that the police can't control it the better move is to try and get out of town as fast as you can, rather than acting as a focal point that the rioters can focus their rage on...

Luckily I REALLY REALLY don't see mass riots as a major problem that America will have to be dealing with in the near future.

Protests != Riots after all...

485 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:56:00pm

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

Yes, if the rioters threaten their homes and businesses. The way to deal with a riot is drop the hammer.

If you were in charge of riot control, there might be no LA today. This is exactly how you make things much, much worse.

486 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:56:07pm

re: #483 Obdicut

Have you, ah, ever talked to any actual riot control cops, anyone who's responsibility it is to control a riot about this?

They, in general, disagree vehemently with you.

And what do they suggest, pray tell? Not negotiation, I hope. Because once things get to a riot I'm not willing to consider that.

487 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:56:17pm

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

Yup...Some asshole throws ONE BRICK through a window and all bets are off!
Marches,Protests, and demonstrations all need permits...LOL
But it takes only a handful of bad apples to turn it UGLY!

488 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:57:11pm

re: #486 Dark_Falcon

And what do they suggest, pray tell? Not negotiation, I hope. Because once things get to a riot I'm not willing to consider that.

Dispersement through the presence of police. You don't want to have to "bring down the hammer", because that means you have already failed.

489 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:57:20pm

re: #477 Obdicut

Anything. You pick. This is your argument, dude. Pick a protest, demonstrate an effect on the Consumer Confidence Index. A causal effect.

in my opinion, there isn't anything in the past 20 years which qualifies, thereby making it all the more disruptive if a significant percentage of the unemployed went and protested.

so given the lack of data, we are forced to infer. i am inferring that millions of people protesting is going to mean bad things for consumer sentiment. to think that we'll all just shrug it off borders on ludicrous, but i'm all ears if you want to give it a run.

don't demean the eminently reasonable in the absence of concrete data.

490 garhighway  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:57:22pm

re: #474 Aceofwhat?

i can't wait to hear exactly which government policy is hiding all of these jobs. because, you know, the reason we have a government is to create jobs, right?

yeesh.

Is job creation the only possible legitimate reason for a public protest?

How about demanding that we fix the financial markets so that they don't implode again?

Or that the government act against global warming?

Or that we get religion out of schools?

Or that unemployment comp be extended?

Aren't there lots of potential subjects for protest that have nothing to do with job creation?

491 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:57:28pm

re: #486 Dark_Falcon

And what do they suggest, pray tell? Not negotiation, I hope. Because once things get to a riot I'm not willing to consider that.


Why take it out of the toolbox Dark? Time they spend negotiating with you is time that they can't spend looting/breaking other people's property....

492 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:58:30pm

re: #486 Dark_Falcon

And what do they suggest, pray tell? Not negotiation, I hope. Because once things get to a riot I'm not willing to consider that.

Containment, mostly. Rioters are human. They get tired when they expend energy. Keep them moving, and they will run out of steam quickly. Tear gas has the problem that it's a gas, and will affect all civilians nearby.

But the main thing is to stop it from getting to a riot in the first place.

493 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:58:36pm

re: #489 Aceofwhat?

in my opinion, there isn't anything in the past 20 years which qualifies, thereby making it all the more disruptive if a significant percentage of the unemployed went and protested.

so given the lack of data, we are forced to infer. i am inferring that millions of people protesting is going to mean bad things for consumer sentiment. to think that we'll all just shrug it off borders on ludicrous, but i'm all ears if you want to give it a run.

don't demean the eminently reasonable in the absence of concrete data.

Millions of people protesting means consumer sentiment already sucks. Carts follow horses.

494 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:58:42pm

Oh wait. I do see a possibility for more imminent, if imminent means in the coming years (like 10-20) of big protests. I can totally see people in the US getting upset and protesting higher gas prices if they climb past a certain point.

I wouldn't completely count out protest over food prices occurring if things go shitty with weather and yields are affected over a long period of time. Likely will see that one coming though if it does happen. re: #483 Obdicut

Have you, ah, ever talked to any actual riot control cops, anyone who's responsibility it is to control a riot about this?

They, in general, disagree vehemently with you.

They do. For one it makes there job harder and for two they have to go and arrest your ass because to them you've become part of the protest/riot. Hard to decipher right and wrong when shytes flying.

So it's just chuck everyone in the van and sort it out later.

That's if you didn't end up in the ambulance or worse because with the shyte flying you end up going at the cops when they're trying to get you and you get your ass beat down or shot.

495 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 1:59:59pm

re: #482 Obdicut

You didn't respond to my particular note about the GOP protecting the tax break for corporations that create jobs overseas. That would be a policy that is moving jobs out of the US, or at least disincentivizing companies from creating them here.

You can address that, if you'd like.

Sure. In order to serve markets overseas, it is often necessary to hire overseas. Penalizing that straightforward process because it scores cheap political points is not an avenue to job creation.

We don't need to take relocate jobs which are quite often posted overseas out of business necessity. We need to create incentives to push organizations from 'on the fence' to 'actively hiring'.

496 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:00:22pm

re: #489 Aceofwhat?

in my opinion, there isn't anything in the past 20 years which qualifies, thereby making it all the more disruptive if a significant percentage of the unemployed went and protested.

Take it back further than twenty years, then.

so given the lack of data, we are forced to infer. i am inferring that millions of people protesting is going to mean bad things for consumer sentiment. to think that we'll all just shrug it off borders on ludicrous, but i'm all ears if you want to give it a run.

You mean you're forced to speculate. And now you're just back to being patronizing and insulting.

don't demean the eminently reasonable in the absence of concrete data.

I'm demeaning the fuck out of your rank speculation that you presented as concrete fact, Ace. Back your shit up, or don't expect it to get one shred of respect from me.

You are unable to support your argument in the least.

497 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:00:43pm

re: #490 garhighway

Is job creation the only possible legitimate reason for a public protest?

How about demanding that we fix the financial markets so that they don't implode again?

Or that the government act against global warming?

Or that we get religion out of schools?

Or that unemployment comp be extended?

Aren't there lots of potential subjects for protest that have nothing to do with job creation?

Sure. But that's not what Piven was talking about, so it wasn't what i was talking about.

498 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:01:18pm

re: #495 Aceofwhat?

Sure. In order to serve markets overseas, it is often necessary to hire overseas. Penalizing that straightforward process because it scores cheap political points is not an avenue to job creation.

I'm not talking about penalizing, it, Ace, I'm talking about tax breaks for it. Why did you suddenly start talking about penalizing it?

Can you explain?

499 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:01:57pm

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

Dispersement through the presence of police. You don't want to have to "bring down the hammer", because that means you have already failed.

Bringing down the hammer does not require lethal force. Use gas, or tasers. Use mounted police. What you do not is concede a riot anything. Give in under threat of force and you look like a pushover.

500 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:02:03pm

Ace, you haven't even yet made an argument, just assertions. Could you make an argument?

501 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:02:27pm

re: #475 Fozzie Bear

QUIET GUYS THE MARKET CAN HEAR YOU

HOW CAN ERIC CANTOR BE EXPECTED TO MAKE THE DOW JONES GO UP WHEN YOU GUYS KEEP BUGGING THE MARKET THIS WAY???

502 garhighway  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:03:57pm

re: #495 Aceofwhat?

Sure. In order to serve markets overseas, it is often necessary to hire overseas. Penalizing that straightforward process because it scores cheap political points is not an avenue to job creation.

We don't need to take relocate jobs which are quite often posted overseas out of business necessity. We need to create incentives to push organizations from 'on the fence' to 'actively hiring'.

You are missing the point. "Creating jobs overseas" isn't referring to hiring a salesman in Tokyo to sell to Japanese companies. It refers to taking American jobs, eliminating them, and shipping them overseas to do the same exact thing that the US workers did. Companies do that because it pays to do that. For government to use tax and trade policy to discourage this would seem to be legitimate.

503 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:04:27pm

re: #501 iossarian

HOW CAN ERIC CANTOR BE EXPECTED TO MAKE THE DOW JONES GO UP WHEN YOU GUYS KEEP BUGGING THE MARKET THIS WAY???

THE SACRED RITE IS NEARLY COMPLETE. THE MARKET DEMANDS MORE PRODUCTIVITY. WE MUST FEED IT LOWER WAGES OR IT WILL BECOME ANGRY.

504 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:05:48pm

re: #492 Obdicut

Containment, mostly. Rioters are human. They get tired when they expend energy. Keep them moving, and they will run out of steam quickly. Tear gas has the problem that it's a gas, and will affect all civilians nearby.

But the main thing is to stop it from getting to a riot in the first place.

Totally core: #492 Obdicut

Containment, mostly. Rioters are human. They get tired when they expend energy. Keep them moving, and they will run out of steam quickly. Tear gas has the problem that it's a gas, and will affect all civilians nearby.

But the main thing is to stop it from getting to a riot in the first place.

Yep, containment, push back if necessary, division of the crowd, (a big one and exactly what they did in Vancouver during the Olympics), picking off the most vocal leaders (another big one but tricky cause you have to weigh getting people riled up at it vs what their presence is doing), gas, sonic cannons (now) though controversial because they get everyone.

There a whole crown psychologically that goes with the techniques.

505 iossarian  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:05:54pm

re: #502 garhighway

You are missing the point. "Creating jobs overseas" isn't referring to hiring a salesman in Tokyo to sell to Japanese companies. It refers to taking American jobs, eliminating them, and shipping them overseas to do the same exact thing that the US workers did. Companies do that because it pays to do that. For government to use tax and trade policy to discourage this would seem to be legitimate.

On a slightly different tack, the other day we were talking about imposing trade tariffs that "correct" for workforce exploitation and essentially reduce the wage incentive to have everything Made in China.

There are multiple possible solutions.

506 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:06:22pm

re: #496 Obdicut

Take it back further than twenty years, then.

You mean you're forced to speculate. And now you're just back to being patronizing and insulting.

I'm demeaning the fuck out of your rank speculation that you presented as concrete fact, Ace. Back your shit up, or don't expect it to get one shred of respect from me.

You are unable to support your argument in the least.

That was lighthearted and meant in good humor. If you want to be that sensitive, knock yourself out. I suggest that, in the future, you inquire about my tone rather than tell me i'm insulting you.

If you think it's rank speculation, fine. But if i want to insult you, you'll know it. Take your martyr cookies and shove off. I swear, i get vile shit every few months from some of the other lizards and there's nothing to see here, but i tell you to 'give it a run' and you're insulted?

Give me a fucking break.

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:06:57pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Those is Greece featured mass property destruction and arson. Here in the US, that sort of mass disruption would not be tolerated. A crowd like those seen in Athens would run into armed citizen opposition in many places. Things would get very ugly very quickly.

We've had rioting before in the States.

508 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:07:04pm

re: #504 Jadespring

A friend of mine in the SF riot squad said that they achieved the most success with engagement with the leaders-- have people go and talk to the guys who are the inciters. When people see a dialog occurring, they're much less likely to riot. Takes some balls on the part of those doing the talking.

509 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:07:24pm

re: #498 Obdicut

I'm not talking about penalizing, it, Ace, I'm talking about tax breaks for it. Why did you suddenly start talking about penalizing it?

Can you explain?

taxing an activity = penalizing an activity.

i'm going to log off, for fear of saying something perfectly lighthearted and accidentally insulting you again. 0_o

510 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:07:51pm

re: #507 SanFranciscoZionist

We've had rioting before in the States.

Yes, and I'd like to avoid a recurrence.

511 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:08:25pm

re: #509 Aceofwhat?

taxing an activity = penalizing an activity.

i'm going to log off, for fear of saying something perfectly lighthearted and accidentally insulting you again. 0_o

See that's where you stopped thinking, and resorting to regurgitating talking points.

512 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:09:00pm

re: #499 Dark_Falcon

Bringing down the hammer does not require lethal force. Use gas, or tasers. Use mounted police. What you do not is concede a riot anything. Give in under threat of force and you look like a pushover.

Yes and police do do this. You seemed to be suggesting that civilians would or should bring down the hammer too.

513 Ericus58  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:09:05pm

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

Dispersement through the presence of police. You don't want to have to "bring down the hammer", because that means you have already failed.

I'll relate my experience having witnessed the Mardi Gras night riot here in Seattle (my GF at the time and myself were in Pioneer Square), I could "sense" the change in the crowd as it gathered in size and intensity. By 10 that night, I told her we were leaving and went to The Owl and The Thistle for a last drink - where we had three guys at the table next to us show off their metal breastplates for "rumbling with the police" We bailed and called 911 at the same time to alert them. As we passed thru a parking lot on the waterfront, a group of SPD's in riot gear were assembling... and fear was quite evident on some faces.

The Chief of Police failed to deploy his officers until the mayhem had broken out and someone had already been killed.
His failure to respond with an organized police presence lead to destruction and a death with many injuries that night.

Mob violence is not to be taken lightly.

514 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:09:21pm

re: #451 wrenchwench

I spent six weeks in Greece. The students protested something or other every weekend. That was not the same as the more recent protests, but my point is that Greece has a looong and proud history of street protests that usually aren't violent in the least.

I grew up in Southern California. I attended street protests, but not riots. Those I caught on TV. There has never been "armed citizen opposition" to a street protest in the US in my lifetime (that clock started ticking in 1958.) I hope if I'm wrong, someone will provide a link.

I'm just trying to ground you in reality a bit.

The only example I can think of is people sitting out in front of their stores with guns to prevent looting, but street protests, no.

515 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:09:25pm

re: #433 Charles

Frances Fox Piven Is Not Afraid of You and She Will Kick Your Ass

A bit blunt, but on the money...while I don't agree with the means of which Cloward-Piven would work, I agree with the sentiment behind it (as Rude Pundit pointed out). The welfare system, as it has existed, does depend on people that should be eligible not taking it in order to keep it afloat...and that is a glaring weakness.

516 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:10:17pm

re: #506 Aceofwhat?

That was lighthearted and meant in good humor. If you want to be that sensitive, knock yourself out. I suggest that, in the future, you inquire about my tone rather than tell me i'm insulting you.

You do this constantly, Ace. We've talked about this before. I've told you over and over again I don't appreciate that 'light' tone and yet you keep doing it. Maybe I'm being a sensitive plant, but since I've repeatedly told you I don't appreciate it, maybe you could do the polite thing and cut it the fuck out.

Take your martyr cookies and shove off.

I'm not in the least bit a martyr, Ace. I'm mainly annoyed with you that you expect me to treat your speculation with any degree of credibility. Why did you bring up the consumer confidence index if you weren't going to be able to demonstrate anything with it? Why make the argument in the first place if you have absolutely nothing to base it on?

517 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:11:16pm

re: #509 Aceofwhat?

taxing an activity = penalizing an activity.

i'm going to log off, for fear of saying something perfectly lighthearted and accidentally insulting you again. 0_o

Wow. Seriously, anything that's taxed is penalized? So, how do we give incentives for things? I thought tax breaks were an incentive, but it turns out they're just a lack of a penalty.

Weaksauce.

518 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:11:16pm

re: #471 talon_262

What an ignorant, throwback putz.

Patterico, go sit on a snake...

What the hell do you have against snakes?

519 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:12:24pm

re: #508 Obdicut

A friend of mine in the SF riot squad said that they achieved the most success with engagement with the leaders-- have people go and talk to the guys who are the inciters. When people see a dialog occurring, they're much less likely to riot. Takes some balls on the part of those doing the talking.

I find that to be conceding them legitimacy, and that I do not believe in. The message that needs to go out is that riot leaders are vermin.

520 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:14:00pm

re: #510 Dark_Falcon

Yes, and I'd like to avoid a recurrence.

It will probably happen again.

521 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:15:17pm

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

I find that to be conceding them legitimacy, and that I do not believe in. The message that needs to go out is that riot leaders are vermin.

You're not getting it, Dark. I'm talking about stopping it from becoming a riot.

522 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:19:34pm

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

I find that to be conceding them legitimacy, and that I do not believe in. The message that needs to go out is that riot leaders are vermin.

That's not how it works and it's not concession. Seriously Dark you might not like it because it offends your sensibilities or something but what Obi and I have been talking about are proven methods of dealing with crowds and potentially unruly crowds. Methods and tactics that are global in nature. The absolute key is to do whatever possible to have the riot not start in the first place because once things get that heated people on all sides get hurt and it is much, much harder to keep a handle on things.

So yes this might mean covorting with and sometimes BSing the "leaders" and leave the broader issues to be dealt with once things calm down, or Sometimes convorting might consist of the cops lying their assess off and seemingly conceeding to what the people are asking for just to get the crowd dispersed.

523 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:19:50pm

re: #521 Obdicut

You're not getting it, Dark. I'm talking about stopping it from becoming a riot.

I was talking about after things had already gotten bad. Before that has happen, yes, talking might be tried. Though I admit I couldn't do it, myself. My loathing of the types of people I'd need to talk to would be far too great.

524 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:20:10pm

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

I find that to be conceding them legitimacy, and that I do not believe in. The message that needs to go out is that riot leaders are vermin.

Riots very often result from large amounts of people living in unacceptable living conditions for extended periods of time. I don't think referring to rioters as 'vermin' is either helpful or illuminating. It's not a coincidence that riots tend to coincide with crushing poverty and/or political oppression.

525 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:22:15pm

re: #523 Dark_Falcon

I was talking about after things had already gotten bad. Before that has happen, yes, talking might be tried. Though I admit I couldn't do it, myself. My loathing of the types of people I'd need to talk to would be far too great.

After the riot starts, as I said, the best thing to do is to tire them out, to move the riot along, and as Jadespring said, to separate and divide it.

It's always good to remember that if a significant percentage of the populace riots, you can't actually arrest all of them.

526 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:23:27pm

re: #444 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

SOCIALISM!

Talk about IN YO FACE SOCIALIZM! FUCK YEAH COMRADE!

527 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:26:08pm

re: #525 Obdicut

After the riot starts, as I said, the best thing to do is to tire them out, to move the riot along, and as Jadespring said, to separate and divide it.

It's always good to remember that if a significant percentage of the populace riots, you can't actually arrest all of them.

Which speaks to the dividing as well. It's easier to arrest if it's a smaller group. One of the problems is that when you start arresting it makes the problem escalate. Better to have 50 people in the immediate area pissed at you while your doing it then several hundred or more.

528 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:26:23pm

Sometimes I wish I was as low as Beck or his fans so that I could do to him what I felt he deserved.

529 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:26:26pm

re: #524 Fozzie Bear

Riots very often result from large amounts of people living in unacceptable living conditions for extended periods of time. I don't think referring to rioters as 'vermin' is either helpful or illuminating. It's not a coincidence that riots tend to coincide with crushing poverty and/or political oppression.

Thankfully, these tend not to apply in the US. Moreover, Euro-style protest is not the fashion here.

530 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:30:06pm

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

Thankfully, these tend not to apply in the US. Moreover, Euro-style protest is not the fashion here.

Apparently, you've never spent much time reading up on conditions in american ghettos, and systematic disenfranchisement of blacks in even recent American history. To describe the conditions in large parts of LA, for instance, as "crushing poverty" is not hyperbole.

531 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:31:39pm

re: #417 Decatur Deb

I need a symbol for "No, I'm not being sarcastic this time."

perhaps?

532 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 2:43:59pm

re: #530 Fozzie Bear

Apparently, you've never spent much time reading up on conditions in american ghettos, and systematic disenfranchisement of blacks in even recent American history. To describe the conditions in large parts of LA, for instance, as "crushing poverty" is not hyperbole.

You'd be surprised about what I know. But you're talking about race issues, and I do not discuss such things online. Sorry, but it's a rule of mine.

533 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 3:11:26pm

The video of the explosion has just been released:

534 APox  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 3:25:28pm

Apparently you get in trouble if you aren't in fake Glenn Beck University and publish papers contrary to his world view.

It's really neat seeing a public figure attack an anonymous citizen and then see people support him. Shows what a bright population we have... For a paper... written 50 years ago... It'd be comical if it weren't so sad.

535 samgak  Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:45:25pm
Actually, he has something of a modernity problem, and people with modernity problems tend to have problems with Jews, who more or less invented modernity (Einstein, Marx, Freud, Franz Boas, etc.)


Jewish intellectual contributions in the late 19th and 20th century are disproportionate to their numbers, but it's ridiculous to suggest that Jews "more or less invented modernity".

536 RabbitRunner  Tue, Jan 25, 2011 7:28:29am

Bad enough Beck comes up with these shoddy conspiratorial rants, even worse that FOX features him. But the worst part of it is that so many feeble minded dumbed down know nothings here in the USA take his rubbish seriously.


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