Anti-Government Protests in Egypt

The domino effect

WorldJanuary 2011 • Views: 25,014

The uprising in Tunisia is inspiring mass demonstrations in Egypt — and while the Egyptian government is massively corrupt and brutal, the only real political alternative is the Muslim Brotherhood.

Police in Cairo are using tear gas and water cannon to try to quell rare anti-government protests.

Thousands have joined the protests after an internet campaign inspired by the uprising in Tunisia.

They are marching through Cairo and other areas chanting anti-government slogans, after activists called for a “day of revolt” in a web message.

Weeks of unrest in Tunisia eventually toppled President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali earlier this month.

Such protests are uncommon in Egypt, which President Hosni Mubarak has ruled since 1981, tolerating little dissent.

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99 comments

jaunte Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:26:54am

Issues:

Demonstrators are calling for the sacking of the country’s interior minister, the cancelling of Egypt’s perpetual emergency law, which suspends basic civil liberties, and a new term limit on the presidency that would bring to an end the 30-year rule of President Hosni Mubarak, one of the Middle East’s most entrenched dictators.[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

jamesfirecat Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:27:00am

Sounds like the classic, things are gonna get a whole lot worse before they get better….

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:28:07am

The twitter topic is #jan25

FemNaziBitch Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:29:02am

oh geez.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:29:12am

re: #3 000G

BTW if you emailed I got nuthin’.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:29:42am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

BTW if you emailed I got nuthin’.

I will email you later, thank you for having provided the option.

Palmer_Eldritch Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:30:05am

Democracy works so much better when America is in charge of who’s in charge.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:31:06am

I think this is an image feed for #Jan25 pictures: [Link: abaadblogs.com…]

Talking Point Detective Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:32:32am

Sorry for wandering off-topic at the top of the thread - not trying to hijack. The riots in Egypt are obviously far more important - but still:

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has amended 13 years’ worth of disclosure reports to include details of wife Virginia Thomas’s sources of income, documents released on Monday show.

The documents indicate that Thomas’s wife, who goes by Ginni, had worked for Hillsdale College in Michigan, the Heritage Foundation and the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives, among other entities.

Like all federal judges, Thomas must file annual disclosure reports on his personal finances, but he had omitted details of his wife’s earnings in what he wrote was a “misunderstanding of the filing instructions.” He also had checked a box marking no spousal income.

OK - the dude is on fucking SCOTUS, and he checked a box that said “no spousal income” when his wife earned six figures?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:33:16am

Haha, outnumbered police: [Link: twitpic.com…]

jaunte Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:33:18am

[Link: twitpic.com…]

Kragar Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34:16am

re: #10 000G

Haha, outnumbered police: [Link: twitpic.com…]

Except the cops can call in tanks.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:35:40am

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Except the cops can call in tanks.

At a certain momentum point, even tanks won’t matter. I also want to repeat this quote:

The Associated Press (AP) news agency reports that in Tahrir Square, demonstrators attacked a police water cannon vehicle, opening the driver’s door and ordering the man out of the vehicle.

FemNaziBitch Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:37:10am

Have a great day all!

Surabaya Stew Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:39:02am

Two thoughts:

1. I don’t feel the least bit sorry for Mubarak and whatever happens to his and his cronies. If they come to a bad end, no tears from me.

2. The MB won’t be very good for Egypt and even worse for the USA and Israel, but Egyptian society (overall) has been trending towards their outlook and policies for some time now. We should expect lots of hot air from them, possibly trouble.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:40:17am

Sigh.

In order for this to actually succeed, they would need to have a sane, educated class to take over and run things.

Not going to happen.

If the Muslim Brotherhood was the Freemasons or the Elks, it might have a chance. But they aren’t, and the sequel to this movie is not going to be good.

Buck Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:40:30am

Youtube Video

al jazeera footage.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:40:51am

Youtube Video

Brave, but dangerous. Water from those cannons can easily blast your eyes out.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:41:14am

re: #16 EmmmieG

were, not was

Sorry

Kragar Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:43:03am

Guess what, the Tea Party loves Big Government!

GOP pushing for ISPs to record user data

The House Republicans’ first major technology initiative is about to be unveiled: a push to force Internet companies to keep track of what their users are doing.

A House panel chaired by Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin is scheduled to hold a hearing tomorrow morning to discuss forcing Internet providers, and perhaps Web companies as well, to store records of their users’ activities for later review by police.

One focus will be on reviving a dormant proposal for data retention that would require companies to store Internet Protocol (IP) addresses for two years, CNET has learned.

Tomorrow’s data retention hearing is juxtaposed against the recent trend to protect Internet users’ privacy by storing less data. Last month, the Federal Trade Commission called for “limited retention” of user data on privacy grounds, and in the last 24 hours, both Mozilla and Google have announced do-not-track technology.

Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:43:32am

It’s been a while since Mubarak really let his thugs loose. This could turn really ugly if he feels backed into a corner.

I don’t think Egypt has reached the kind of critical mass yet where the government could fall, but I’m not placing bets either way. If it does happen, the Muslim Brotherhood will almost certainly take over, and that would definitely not be good news for anyone — least of all the Egyptian people.

Obdicut Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:47:15am

re: #16 EmmmieG

Sigh.

In order for this to actually succeed, they would need to have a sane, educated class to take over and run things.

Not going to happen.

If the Muslim Brotherhood was the Freemasons or the Elks, it might have a chance. But they aren’t, and the sequel to this movie is not going to be good.

That’s a very good point. Education in Egypt has been abysmal. Illiteracy is high, ignorance is high, and, sadly, conspiracy stories about Jews are very, very high.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:47:45am

re: #21 Charles

It’s been a while since Mubarak really let his thugs loose. This could turn really ugly if he feels backed into a corner.

I don’t think Egypt has reached the kind of critical mass yet where the government could fall, but I’m not placing bets either way. If it does happen, the Muslim Brotherhood will almost certainly take over, and that would definitely not be good news for anyone — least of all the Egyptian people.

I think people might get momentum enough so that even Mubarak wanting to crash down will not change the course of events. I was most taken by this tweet from Sandmonkey:

The families went down with the protesters. This isn’t just young people. Unprecedented. #jan25 Your text to link…

They have mass. Let’s hope they can coordinate enough order.

darthstar Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:48:34am

re: #11 jaunte

[Link: twitpic.com…]

Whenever I see a pic like that I think, What if you have to pee?

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:49:32am

re: #24 darthstar

Whenever I see a pic like that I think, What if you have to pee?

Do you really want to know?

Kragar Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:49:39am

re: #24 darthstar

Whenever I see a pic like that I think, What if you have to pee?

Just go Man, just go.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:50:39am

I don’t think the common Egyptians have had a fair shake since the days of the Pharaohs. Which means, ever.

Then again, the penalty for stealing goods worth more than some amount of money (can’t remember, think it was a shilling) in 1776 England was death, I think.

Then again, the English were the only country that wouldn’t torture the templars when they went down. (To get a confession of funky wrong-doings. Surprisingly, only the tortured templars ever confessed.)

The question I’m thinking, I suppose, is whether a people’s history can be turned around, and how?

lawhawk Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:53:33am

re: #21 Charles

Before the Tunisian uprising, people thought that the situation in Egypt was actually worse - and events showed that Ben Ali was pretty quickly sent into exile. Events can turn things on a dime.

What the Egyptian protests have going for them is that the security forces have focused quite a bit on the MB, allowing other groups to coalesce. The Brotherhood is on the sidelines for the moment and they may end up exploiting matters at a time and place of their choosing.

And things could quickly spiral out of control for the Egyptian forces, who really haven’t gone on a broad-based crackdown. Even after the Sadat assassination, the focus was on the MB. Here, who exactly are the security forces going to target? So far, the Egyptians haven’t turned off ‘net access so they can still coordinate and communicate.

If they lose ‘net connections, that’s when I think the crackdown will get serious.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:53:59am

re: #27 EmmmieG

The question I’m thinking, I suppose, is whether a people’s history can be turned around, and how?

I hate to sound so clichéd, but I am pretty sure the answer involves personal freedom protected by civil liberties.

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:54:30am

re: #22 Obdicut

That’s a very good point. Education in Egypt has been abysmal. Illiteracy is high, ignorance is high, and, sadly, conspiracy stories about Jews are very, very high.

Probably a poor analogy, but I get the personal impression that governments are a bit like child-raising.

If you try to raise the child with strictly limited/no educational opportunities and strait-laced black/white views of the world and how to interact with it you end up with one of two results; a clone of your “correct” views that continues on and parrots them without really having knowledge to back them, or a eventual stage where the offspring has realized that they have been denied a great deal, taught nothing, and then revolt in generally a nasty way.

If you raise the child very broadly and with something of a light hand you end up with a lot more minor tiffs about freedoms, options, and sometimes simple pique. But, in the long run you tend to end up with a much more stable relationship. Perhaps due to there being a lot more freedom in the relationship, opportunities to blow off steam rather than allow it to build up, and from treating the child as an adult (within obvious limits) instead of a person/object with no free will.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:56:53am

re: #28 lawhawk

Here, who exactly are the security forces going to target? So far, the Egyptians haven’t turned off ‘net access so they can still coordinate and communicate.

If they lose ‘net connections, that’s when I think the crackdown will get serious.

Great points. Isn’t there any way a popular movement could establish their own electronic communication webs and bypass government kill switches?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:58:10am

re: #29 000G

I hate to sound so clichéd, but I am pretty sure the answer involves personal freedom protected by civil liberties.

I was thinking a sound education based on logic and the scientific method.

Maybe we’re both right.

Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:58:58am

re: #27 EmmmieG

The question I’m thinking, I suppose, is whether a people’s history can be turned around, and how?

I would assume they’d need a system similar to what Attaturk set up in Turkey; a mandated secular state enforced by the military. I suspect that’s probably fairly unlikely. What would probably happen if Mubarak’s government folds is something similar to Lebanon which would probably result in civil war. The Islamists would love to kill off the Copts and start shipping weapons into Gaza for a proxy war with Israel from Gaza.
I’m not optimistic.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:00:31am

Live stream:

[Link: www.ustream.tv…]

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:00:47am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I would assume they’d need a system similar to what Attaturk set up in Turkey; a mandated secular state enforced by the military. I suspect that’s probably fairly unlikely. What would probably happen if Mubarak’s government folds is something similar to Lebanon which would probably result in civil war. The Islamists would love to kill off the Copts and start shipping weapons into Gaza for a proxy war with Israel from Gaza.
I’m not optimistic.

Aw, crap. The Copts.

Maybe we could send some American Christians of the variety who whine about repression over there to explain to them how bad it is in the US.

BishopX Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:00:49am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I’m hoping that this protest movement will push the creation of a nominally secular opposition party, after all the MB has publicly stated their sitting this one out. Hopefully someone new will rise up.

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:01:12am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I would assume they’d need a system similar to what Attaturk set up in Turkey; a mandated secular state enforced by the military. I suspect that’s probably fairly unlikely. What would probably happen if Mubarak’s government folds is something similar to Lebanon which would probably result in civil war. The Islamists would love to kill off the Copts and start shipping weapons into Gaza for a proxy war with Israel from Gaza.
I’m not optimistic.

How long would Israel put up with that before seriously considering a re-occupation of Gaza to put a stop to it?

lawhawk Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:01:44am

re: #31 000G

I would think that sat-phone enabled communication would avoid the government crackdown if that occurred, but don’t know how many Egyptians would have that kind of access.

The question will be whether Egypt follows the Tunisian model (attempt to crackdown, followed by rebuffed gestures and finally abdication/exile) or the Iranian model (heavy handed crackdown with regime retaining control).

Right now, I’d lean towards Mubarak employing the Iranian model response, especially after seeing what happened in Tunisia. Because Mubarak will see that if he makes concessions, they will be the start of still more concessions that send him packing (and autocrats love to stay in power).

Ericus58 Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:03:35am

Jordan unrest inspired by Tunisia political upheaval.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk…]

Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:03:50am

re: #28 lawhawk

That’s why I said I wouldn’t bet either way. Egypt’s a different case than Tunisia, though - the power is much more concentrated in the hands of the regime, and they’re much wealthier than Ben Ali and his crime family.

The Muslim Brotherhood is officially banned, but it’s no secret that they have their fingers in almost all the opposition groups. If/when the Mubarak regime finally collapses we may see Egypt become an Islamic theocracy, like a Sunni version of Iran.

lawhawk Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:04:33am

re: #40 Charles

Or Saudi Arabia.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:06:04am

re: #24 darthstar

Go ahead. No one will notice.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:08:05am

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Go ahead. No one will notice.

This would explain why there are separate bathrooms in the clubhouse, and none of the female lizards will clean the other one.

lawhawk Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:08:36am

OT:
Emanuel will appeal to IL Supreme Court over the ballot decision by the appellate court yesterday:

Youtube Video

_remembertonyc Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:09:14am

if egypt falls to the islamists, we are looking at iran II …

so which genius or statesman has the solution to fix that?

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:09:37am

re: #44 lawhawk

I think it would be funny if wasn’t allowed to run. Hillary at least bought a house in New York in time.

Did he not know this rule?

Ericus58 Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:10:18am

re: #39 Ericus58

There is growing anger in Jordan.
And there are comparisons being made between Queen Rania and the wife of Tunisia’s ex-ruler…..

strange days indeed…

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:10:21am

re: #38 lawhawk

I would think that sat-phone enabled communication would avoid the government crackdown if that occurred, but don’t know how many Egyptians would have that kind of access.

People might be able to pool. Alreadyon Twitter I see multiple calls for people to unprotect their WiFi near the demonstrations so others can get access.

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:11:04am

re: #44 lawhawk

OT:
Emanuel will appeal to IL Supreme Court over the ballot decision by the appellate court yesterday:

[Video]

Given all the lawyering fees that must go into these election-related court cases and appeals it does give one pause to consider how profitable the desired office be (unto itself, or as a stepping stone to something else).

“Profitable” of course may not necessarily be monetary gain of course.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:11:54am

re: #47 Ericus58

There is growing anger in Jordan.
And there are comparisons being made between Queen Rania and the wife of Tunisia’s ex-ruler…

strange days indeed…

She has her own YouTube channel… I wonder what she would upload if she got chased into exile?

BishopX Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:12:11am

Protesters in Lebanon are rioting over the new Hezbollah backed PM

LinkNYTimes

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:13:18am

Before I go; I am consistently astounded by the breadth and depth of knowledge that Lizards have.

I know nothing about Egypt more than Pyramids, the Sphynx, and the name of its president. How you guys know this stuff baffles me.

I appreciate the fact that I am allowed to read and throw the occasional spitball. Thanks for allowing me to hang out.

Stanghazi Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:15:58am

The Illinois Supreme Court has ordered the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners to put Rahm Emanuel’s name back on the mayoral ballot, attorneys for Emanuel said Tuesday.

[Link: www.suntimes.com…]

lawhawk Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:16:37am

re: #51 BishopX

Fear (by Hizbullah) of the Hariri investigation led to
Anger (and the withdrawal of Hizbullah from the Lebanese Government)
Hate (of Hizbullah’s takeover of the government) shows that Lebanese realize
Suffering will occur at Hizbullah’s hands.

/the crisis distilled as per Yoda.

Political Atheist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:16:38am

re: #49 oaktree

Or campaign spending. One possible way to evaluate ego or corruption is divide the spending by the salary, particularly in cases of self financed candidates.

Ericus58 Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:16:41am

re: #50 000G

She has her own YouTube channel… I wonder what she would upload if she got chased into exile?

At this time, the Monarchy is safe.
But the MB is becoming more active in Jordan as well - not just Egypt.
And with the new PM of Lebanon being picked by Hizballah…. a convergence is possible between Arab nations that has not existed since Nasser.

garhighway Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:17:44am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think it would be funny if wasn’t allowed to run. Hillary at least bought a house in New York in time.

Did he not know this rule?

There was a big conversation yesterday about this.

Short answer is that he owns a home there, but hadn’t lived there while working in the White House. He maintained Chicago residency in every other way, and felt (and lower courts agreed) that his time spent away working in the White House was not disqualifying, as provided for in the statute.

There is some sense that this is a classic Illinois political decision, in that one of the two majority judges is a big backer of one of Rahm’s opponents. Having said that, it is Illinois, where no decision is made without political input, so that is to be expected.

Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:19:16am

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know nothing about Egypt more than Pyramids, the Sphynx, and the name of its president. How you guys know this stuff baffles me.

That also reminds me that an Islamist takeover in Egypt endangers their monuemnts, museums and historical artifacts. Certain factions in Egypt consider archeological artifacts to be blasphemous heathen idols. It could result in a massive loss of the world’s most treasured historical sites and treasures.

reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:24:09am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

That also reminds me that an Islamist takeover in Egypt endangers their monuemnts, museums and historical artifacts. Certain factions in Egypt consider archeological artifacts to be blasphemous heathen idols. It could result in a massive loss of the world’s most treasured historical sites and treasures.

The Buddhas in Afghanistan come to mind.

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:25:22am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

It isn’t just the Islamists, it is the sheer chaos that comes about in the wake of political turmoil: look what happened to the museums and collections in Iraq.

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:36:59am

re: #54 lawhawk

Fear (by Hizbullah) of the Hariri investigation led to
Anger (and the withdrawal of Hizbullah from the Lebanese Government)
Hate (of Hizbullah’s takeover of the government) shows that Lebanese realize
Suffering will occur at Hizbullah’s hands.

/the crisis distilled as per Yoda.

So Lebanon is on the way to becoming the Sith apprentice to the secret Sith Lord Syria? To be followed by an attempted Force Choke of Israel?

Varek won’t stand for this of course…

Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:39:48am

re: #31 000G

Great points. Isn’t there any way a popular movement could establish their own electronic communication webs and bypass government kill switches?

Routers in ad-hoc mode + irc could do the trick.

Tumulus11 Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:41:25am

. Egypt stands alone among Arab dictatorships at the top of the self-immolation index. This may be an ominous portent for Hosni Mubarak.

‘Analysts say several self-immolation cases or attempted acts in Egypt, now numbering more than a dozen, seem to be driven by broadly similar complaints to those that drove Tunisians to the streets and toppled their president, Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali.’
// Reuters Africa Jan 21, 2011

califleftyb Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:50:02am

I agree with Charles that this could set the stage for a takeover by the Muslim Brotherhood. The US needs to be very careful about this situation, it is Iran redux. As much as the Shah was a corrupt and a petty tyrant he was not exporting an anti-American ideology and was a positive actor as far as Middle East affairs go. Yet, under the banner of promoting human rights, President Carter made excessive demands of the Shah, setting the table for the return of the Ayatollahs, and the world has paid, and continues to pay, a heavy price ever since.

President Obama needs to avoid nice speeches and platitudes that are fine in an idealized world of Jeffersonian values and come to grips with the “realpolitik” of the streets of the Arab world bathed in the ideology of Islamic extremism. It will not measure up well against our beliefs and ideals, it may get ugly, but that is the hand we have been dealt, we need to be strong enough to play it.

Obdicut Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:53:05am

re: #64 califleftyb

Um, blamin the fall of the Shah on Carter is pretty insane. The Shah fell because he was a corrupt and petty tyrant and got overthrown because of it. Blame his tyranny, blame the religious zealots, blame the CIA for toppling Iran’s democracy in the first place and setting up the Shah, but blaming Carter? Weird.

President Obama needs to avoid nice speeches and platitudes that are fine in an idealized world of Jeffersonian values and come to grips with the “realpolitik” of the streets of the Arab world bathed in the ideology of Islamic extremism. It will not measure up well against our beliefs and ideals, it may get ugly, but that is the hand we have been dealt, we need to be strong enough to play it.

That’s nice. Try saying something concrete. For someone objecting to nice speeches, you sure make them.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:53:39am

re: #64 califleftyb

Yet, under the banner of promoting human rights, President Carter made excessive demands of the Shah, setting the table for the return of the Ayatollahs, and the world has paid, and continues to pay, a heavy price ever since.

It’s too early in the morning still for me to discuss the role of the United States in limiting freedom to protect the world.

So I will settle for saying that we made another kind of a choice with Saddam Hussein, and we paid, and continue to pay, a heavy price for that, too.

Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:57:34am

re: #40 Charles

Which is also another reason why Israel needs to be very careful when trading land for “peace”. The head of the MB stated that they’re going to cancel the Camp David accords if they come to power.

tradewind Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:58:03am

re: #31 000G
No expert but I read that it happens all the time.
Those tweets from Iran during the attempted uprising, for example.

Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 25, 2011 10:58:24am

re: #65 Obdicut

It’s sort of like crediting Reagan with the fall of the USSR. Just because somebody tried to make it happen doesn’t mean they caused it to happen, and it doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have happened anyway.

tradewind Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:02:28am

re: #60 ralphieboy

look what happened to the museums and collections in Iraq.

IIRC, not nearly as much as the media purported. There was some loss, but reports of the extinction of artifacts appear to have been greatly exaggerated. Many were moved to safety, not destroyed.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:05:05am

re: #67 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

Which is also another reason why Israel needs to be very careful when trading land for “peace”. The head of the MB stated that they’re going to cancel the Camp David accords if they come to power.

All issues aside, Israel’s peace with Egypt has lasted over thirty years. It’s not going to be pretty if…damnit!

Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:11:51am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Whatever happens, they’re still going to need international aid to feed millions of hungry people and breaking the peace agreement will mean breaking ties with the US and all the US money.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t be the least surprised if the Sinai becomes a flashpoint once again.

califleftyb Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:17:05am

re: #65 Obdicut

Um, blamin the fall of the Shah on Carter is pretty insane.

Try reading: “setting the table for the return of the Ayatollahs….”

That’s nice. Try saying something concrete. For someone objecting to nice speeches, you sure make them.

How’s this: Barrack, play nice with those Egyptians! Better?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:20:41am

Live broadcast from downtown Cairo: [Link: www.ustream.tv…]

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:22:58am

re: #74 000G

Live broadcast from downtown Cairo: [Link: www.ustream.tv…]

Oh, that doesn’t look so good.

Or sound so good. Can anyone hear what they’re shouting?

Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:23:03am

Like in Gaza, this is a classic case where the Bush Doctrine falls apart and where the foreign policy “realists” have a point. The West can’t afford the religious fascists taking over Egypt.

Obdicut Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:24:17am

re: #73 califleftyb

Try reading: “setting the table for the return of the Ayatollahs…”

Yeah. I read that. Again: That wasn’t Carter, certainly not Carter alone. The Shah set the table for the Ayatallahs. And we set up the Shah.

How’s this: Barrack, play nice with those Egyptians! Better?

No. Worse.

When your criticism is that someone needs to come to grips with the realities of the Arab streets, it really looks pretty lame when you then don’t actually say what you mean by that.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:24:50am

Someone on the feed comments just said Twitter was blocked in Egypt. Take that for what it’s worth, I have no idea who this dude is.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:26:40am

Some of the people on the feed are saying the chant is ‘leave, leave’.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:28:33am

What time is it in Cairo now?

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:30:16am

OK, this is ridiculous. I need to learn Arabic.

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:34:34am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, this is ridiculous. I need to learn Arabic.

I thought the same while trying to decipher the facebook page. Translator helps get the gist but it definitely is missing something.

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:36:08am

re: #82 Jadespring

Like this for instance…

oon nobody is a conduit for God and yes you proxy Maine you Ahan Tcoll 10 000 footmen withdraw and you sitting at home can drink yogurt with fruit Treha O God have mercy and be gracious

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:40:10am

Seems to be a big hacker attack or at least an attempted one….

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:41:20am

Lots of people trying to get around the communication blocks and posting ways and proxies to get around the blocks.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:42:02am

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:44:50am

Footage: [Link: www.ustream.tv…]

Masses: [Link: www.facebook.com…]

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:44:56am

Umm looks like protest in Lebenon too. Has that been posted here yet?

Jadespring Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:45:56am

re: #88 Jadespring

Umm looks like protest in Lebenon too. Has that been posted here yet?

Correction… might be protests…

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:48:30am

The Guardian has some amazing pictures: [Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

lawhawk Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:49:56am

re: #88 Jadespring

Riots. The pro-Hariri backers have taken to the street to protest Hizbullah’s ascension, and they’re not happy about it.

Youtube Video

Buck Tue, Jan 25, 2011 12:46:15pm

If Mubarek does fall, and whoever takes over does not agree to honor the deal with Israel….

Well that will save the budget a couple of billion a year. (20 billion over ten years?)

tradewind Tue, Jan 25, 2011 1:38:13pm

re: #92 Buck
Wonder if there are any webcams for the Aswan?

Lidane Tue, Jan 25, 2011 2:05:06pm

One of my grad school classmates is Egyptian, and she just got back after spending over a month there over the holidays. I hope her family is okay in spite of the unrest going on over there.

tradewind Tue, Jan 25, 2011 2:12:16pm

re: #94 Lidane
Now there’s a country where serious antiquity site/ artifact-protection efforts should be underway, with help from UN troops if necessary.
Okay, scratch UN. But really, a lot at risk.

tradewind Tue, Jan 25, 2011 2:13:25pm

re: #94 Lidane
I know a family whose son is a graduate student at a university in Cairo. Hope he gets home.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 25, 2011 4:01:47pm

First couple of killed protesters confirmed…

maryatexitzero Tue, Jan 25, 2011 4:20:19pm

the only real political alternative is the Muslim Brotherhood

..and yet the Muslim Brotherhood and their fellow Islamist mooks didn’t sponsor the riots in Egypt or Tunisia.

The MB inspires punks, thieves, American media types, diplomats and other power-crazed thugs, but they don’t get any grassroots support. For very good reasons, the majority of people don’t like them.

Their only real skill is extorting concessions from Western powers through the threat of terrorism. They have no offensive or defensive capabilities. Therefore, t’s not clear that they are a political force.

ಠ_ಠ Wed, Jan 26, 2011 12:31:26pm

Revolutions can work positively. As long as the US doesn’t decide to waltz in there like the own the country and irrevocably f*** things up, this nascent revolution may actually have a chance. Not just Iraq, remember how we completely destroyed Iran in the 50’s, setting mid-east democracy back by at least a century?

The Iranian Shah overthrew the massively popular and secularly democratic Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in a CIA backed coup after the PM nationalized the Iranian oil industry. Mosaddegh was very secularist, and though Iran was quite religious his popular reforms gave him massive support.

In the interest of halting ‘OMG COMUNIZM’ they propped up an unpopular dictator (the same old story), who became extremely vicious after he knew he had CIA support. This successfully drove the populace towards their religious clerics, and destroyed all the secular advances the country had made. When the people overthrew the tyrant in 1979, the religious tyranny that followed was largely the result of that CIA intervention.

TL;DR Mind our own goddamn business and maybe Egypt can remain the lone rock in a turbulent mid-east.

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