Sarah Palin's WTF Moment: The Space Race Killed the Soviet Union

Sarah Palin’s WTF Moment: The Space Race Killed the Soviet Union

Wingnut revisionism strikes again

WingnutsJanuary 2011 • Views: 27,147

Increasingly, right wingers are living in a world that never was, with its own fake history. Half-governor Sarah Palin went on Fox News yesterday and said there were “a lot of WTF moments” (presidential!) in Barack Obama’s State of the Union address — and pulled another bit of wingnut revisionism out of her hat. According to Palin, the reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union was … Sputnik.

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194 comments

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:46:20am

And she gets the meaning of "Sputnik moment" exactly backwards.

It wasn't a moment for the USSR. It was a moment for the US. One that made us realize we had to work our asses or fall quickly behind the technological race.

Of course, for people like Sarah Palin, who believe the US's exceptionalness comes from divine favor and not from the work of scientists, engineers, and working men and women, there can't be such a thing.

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:46:34am

She clearly doesn't understand what Obama meant by "Sputnik moment".

Clueless.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:47:01am

It was Reagan.

It was Thatcher.

It was the Pope.

It was Solidarity.

It was Glasnost.

It was Gorby.

It was being out arms-raced.

It was implosion.

It was a lot of things.

It was not Sputnik.

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:47:59am

Idiom: Sputnik moment

A Sputnik moment is a point where people realise that they are threatened of challenged and have to redouble their efforts to catch up. It comes from the time when the Soviet Union launched the first satellite, the Sputnik 1, and beat the USA into space.

jc717 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:47:59am

Yeah, she's right. If only they stayed with 1930s technology and ideas then I'm sure that Stalin would still be running the show. Technology bad; science bad; fire bad.

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:48:46am

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yes it was many things.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:49:52am

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was Kennedy.

It was Afganistan.

It was FUCKING COLD!

It was food shortages.

It was too big to hold together.

It was too corrupt.

It cheated at the Olympics.

It was a lot of things.

But it wasn't Sputnik.

lawhawk Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:50:32am

Sputnik killed the Soviet Union?

Really, why is she hating on Reagan so much? After all, it was his military building and Star Wars that the right wing has attributed to bringing down the Soviet Union.

Seems that every time she goes on the record, it gets dumber and dumber.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:51:34am

FFS!

Yakov Smirnoff had more to do with the end of the USSR than Sputnik!

JeffM70 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:52:04am

She just dissed Reagan. I hope he can forgive her. I hope she can forgive herself.

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:52:13am

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hmm a comic? possible.

Stanghazi Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:52:27am

So, I listened to that Sputnik moment talk over and over again and I think, “No, we don’t need one of those.” You know what we need is a Spudnut moment! And here’s where I’m going with this Greta, and you’re a good one – you’re one of those reporters who gets out there in the communities, finds these hard working people and finds solutions to the problems Americans face. Well, the Spudnut Shop in Richland, Washington. It’s a bakery, it’s a little coffee shop that’s so successful.

Did anyone catch THIS part of the interview? WTF?

[Link: www.themudflats.net...]

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:53:27am

Gretta was heavily stroked there...I think she liked it

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:53:33am

re: #11 PhillyPretzel

What is the difference in the police in the United States and the police in the Soviet Union?

Warning shots.

-Yakov Smirnov

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:54:06am

re: #14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
LOL

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:54:50am

Usage:

The “space age” began on October 4, 1957, when the Soviet Union (USSR) launched Sputnik, the world’s first artificial satellite. Some U.S. policymakers, concerned about the USSR’s ability to launch a satellite, thought Sputnik might be an indication that the United States was trailing behind the USSR in science and technology. The Cold War also led some U.S. policymakers to perceive the Sputnik launch as a possible precursor to nuclear attack. In response to this “Sputnik moment,” the U.S. government undertook several policy actions, including the establishment of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), enhancement of research funding, and reformation of science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) education policy.

Michael Orion Powell Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:55:13am

She is speaking nothing but pure gibberish.

Sionainn Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:55:13am

re: #12 Stanley Sea

Did anyone catch THIS part of the interview? WTF?

[Link: www.themudflats.net...]

OMG! She really said that!

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:55:35am

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was Reagan.

It was Thatcher.

It was the Pope.

It was Solidarity.

It was Glasnost.

It was Gorby.

It was being out arms-raced.

It was implosion.

It was a lot of things.

It was not Sputnik.

Their foray into Afghanistan also played a big role.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 8:56:14am

re: #19 Gus 802

Their foray into Afghanistan also played a big role.

Stingers killed the Soviet Union....fact

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:00:42am

AmIdol politics
Celebrity TV bites
sex, lies, and shell games
nudging blocks of voters who drool over their stars and starlets
Dancing With The Pols

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:01:31am

re: #21 albusteve

AmIdol politics
Celebrity TV bites
sex, lies, and shell games
nudging blocks of voters who drool over their stars and starlets
Dancing With The Pols

Snookidemic™

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:01:58am

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sputnik, in fact, arguably helped to keep the USSR together. It was a huge victory, a moment of national pride, when Russia had really achieved something momentous.

That's why we had to beat them in the space race. To confront that display of technological dominance.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:03:45am

re: #19 Gus 802

Their foray into Afghanistan also played a big role.

also, all those bootleg bon jovi cassettes

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:03:48am

I can't wait for the day when President Palin erects a monument in DC for the Great John Stossell.
/

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:04:47am

re: #22 Gus 802

Snookidemic™

stupid me...I surfed the tv scene and there is an entire prime time of Fox reality shows...Bill, Shaun, Gretta, maybe another one...then when it ends, they start all over again!...there is no that much drool in in the human drool glands, is there?....this is common knowledge I suppose

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:06:08am

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was Reagan.

It was Thatcher.

It was the Pope.

It was Solidarity.

It was Glasnost.

It was Gorby.

It was being out arms-raced.

It was implosion.

It was a lot of things.

It was not Sputnik.

Yes--many things set them up. I've always thought that it was some idiot engineer at Chernobyl that started the avalanche.

Surabaya Stew Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:08:00am

re: #23 Obdicut

Sputnik, in fact, arguably helped to keep the USSR together. It was a huge victory, a moment of national pride, when Russia had really achieved something momentous.

That's why we had to beat them in the space race. To confront that display of technological dominance.

True that. Lets not forget that many former Nazi scientists (Operation Paperclip, anybody?) greatly assisted the USA and the USSR with designing the rockets. Neither side can say they they went into space without help from some dubious characters.

Mickey_being_mickey Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:08:07am

Sarah better watch out. Reagan zombie is coming for her. And he is not to happy with her revisionist history. But since she is brainless, Reagan zombie will be left with an empty stomach.

Randy W. Weeks Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:08:19am

Surely even her base can't be so stupid that they would buy into this.

Right?

Is Palin stupid, ignorant or disingenuous? All three?

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:09:05am

re: #30 LoneStarSpur

Surely even her base can't be so stupid that they would buy into this.

Right?

Right?

Is Palin stupid, ignorant or disingenuous? All three?

Not distinguishable without extensive testing.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:09:27am

what a total, complete twit.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:09:39am

re: #24 WindUpBird

also, all those bootleg bon jovi cassettes

And Levis'. Don't forget the Levis'.

iossarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:10:01am

re: #23 Obdicut

Not stalking you across threads (!) but I got distracted away from before, and just wanted to point out that I am not Australian!

I have nothing but respect for the NZ rugby team, they have been one of the most consistently dominant forces in any given sport across a remarkably long period of time. Which is why it's also necessary to wind them up every so often (every four years seems to work quite well).

Semper Fi Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:10:26am

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was Reagan.

It was Thatcher.

It was the Pope.

It was Solidarity.

It was Glasnost.

It was Gorby.

It was being out arms-raced.

It was implosion.

It was a lot of things.

It was not Sputnik.

Your post is a thing of beauty. You said it so well. Nicely done.

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:11:15am

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yes. Levis' is still a hot item in the former USSR.

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:11:41am

re: #30 LoneStarSpur

Surely even her base can't be so stupid that they would buy into this.

Right?

Right?

Is Palin stupid, ignorant or disingenuous? All three?

Palin's stupid. These are talking points from her handlers designed to get the wingnuts excited. She has no idea what she's saying.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:13:35am

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Palin's stupid. These are talking points from her handlers designed to get the wingnuts excited. She has no idea what she's saying.

remember those dolls where their eyes are frozen open, you pull a cord and it blathers what you want to hear in a monotone?...after three blathers it repeats itself

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:13:41am

re: #19 Gus 802

Their foray into Afghanistan also played a big role.

It played a huge role. Funny, that lesson is lost on us.

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:14:13am

re: #34 iossarian

No problem. I just think in general the All-Blacks like a good counter-display, as long as its not just one yobbo talking shit back to them.

But yeah, they are almost overly dominant. Not much can be said to really take them down a notch.

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:14:33am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

It played a huge role. Funny, that lesson is lost on us.

We're exceptional.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:14:35am

re: #30 LoneStarSpur

Surely even her base can't be so stupid that they would buy into this.

Right?

Right?

Is Palin stupid, ignorant or disingenuous? All three?

She is a product of her supporters. She wouldn't be where she is if there weren't huge numbers of incredibly ignorant and stupid people in the US.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:14:39am

re: #38 albusteve

remember those dolls where their eyes are frozen open, you pull a cord and it blathers what you want to hear in a monotone?...after three blathers it repeats itself

TALKING TINA O_O

Youtube Video

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:15:11am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

It played a huge role. Funny, that lesson is lost on us.

not me...if I were in the Army, my name would be General Withdrawal

zora Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:16:10am

palin and bachmann. they're cousins, identical cousins.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:16:18am

re: #44 albusteve

not me...if I were in the Army, my name would be General Withdrawal

It's often referred to (outside the US) as "the graveyard of empires".

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:16:36am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

Uber ding.

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:16:57am

re: #44 albusteve

not me...if I were in the Army, my name would be General Withdrawal

We've pretty much done what can be done. It's getting time to Ranch Hand the poppy fields and split.

simoom Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:17:12am

re: #30 LoneStarSpur

Is Palin stupid, ignorant or disingenuous? All three?

I hate to say it, but I'm actually extremely curious whether she really thought the President was saying we're the Soviet Union his Sputnik moment analogy (and I suppose, that would make our competitors, China, India, etc, the USA in the analogy...).

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:17:59am

re: #43 WindUpBird

TALKING TINA O_O

[Video]

Kojak!

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:18:54am

re: #49 simoom

I hate to say it, but I'm actually extremely curious whether she really thought the President was saying we're the Soviet Union his Sputnik moment analogy (and I suppose, that would make our competitors, China, India, etc, the USA in the analogy...).

I believe she really doesn't have a clue what he meant, but simply assumed the worst and took off with it.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:20:12am

re: #44 albusteve

not me...if I were in the Army, my name would be General Withdrawal

Funny that our profligate spending in the GWOT is never openly considered as a major driver of the deficit.

Tigger2005 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:22:26am

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

She is a product of her supporters. She wouldn't be where she is if there weren't huge numbers of incredibly ignorant and stupid people in the US.

Unfortunately, I know people who are actually pretty intelligent...probably more intelligent than Palin...who just love her. This includes my two older brothers. I honestly don't know how they can be so blind. Even if you agree with someone's politics...or think you do...that can't be your only consideration of their fitness for leadership.

Love him or hate him, Ronald Reagan was a real, experienced, dedicated LEADER, public servant, and statesman, and he was no airhead. Palin is so blatantly, obviously NOT anywhere near Reagan's league...not even in the same universe, really.

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:22:27am

To put it bluntly, it seems the entire GOP attitude towards the TPers can be summed up by Animal House.

"Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

"Germans?"

"Forget it, he's rolling."

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:23:19am

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When Obama speaks, the Republicans have turned it into a redneck trying to pick a barfight.

"You lookin' at my girlfriend?
"Excuse me?"
"I asked you if you were looking at my girlfriend."
"Uh... no."
"I saw you looking at her."
"I may have glanced that direction, but I certainly wasn't looking at her."
"So, you saw her, and she ain't pretty enough for you to look at?"
"Of course, not... she's very pretty."
"So you were looking at her."

etc...

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:23:44am

Is she really that stupid? Uh Sarah the Soviet Union lasted for thirty years after Sputnik was launched. Sheesh, she is so poorly informed that it's not even runny anymore really.

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:23:59am

re: #53 Tigger2005

Unfortunately, I know people who are actually pretty intelligent...probably more intelligent than Palin...who just love her. This includes my two older brothers. I honestly don't know how they can be so blind. Even if you agree with someone's politics...or think you do...that can't be your only consideration of their fitness for leadership.

Love him or hate him, Ronald Reagan was a real, experienced, dedicated LEADER, public servant, and statesman, and he was no airhead. Palin is so blatantly, obviously NOT anywhere near Reagan's league...not even in the same universe, really.

She fills a gap in the souls of many people.

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:24:19am

re: #56 HappyWarrior

Is she really that stupid? Uh Sarah the Soviet Union lasted for thirty years after Sputnik was launched. Sheesh, she is so poorly informed that it's not even runny anymore really.

Man, she could see them from where she lived and she never even noticed.

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:25:02am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

It played a huge role. Funny, that lesson is lost on us.

TOTALLY different reason for our presence to the reason for the Soviet Union's foray.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:25:24am

I really need to go to work.

Sigh.

Guess I'll put my pants on.

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:25:52am

re: #59 Ericus58

TOTALLY different reason for our presence to the reason for the Soviet Union's foray.

Not to a 14yr old with a Kalashnikov.

Tigger2005 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:25:56am

re: #56 HappyWarrior

Is she really that stupid? Uh Sarah the Soviet Union lasted for thirty years after Sputnik was launched. Sheesh, she is so poorly informed that it's not even runny anymore really.

Or funny, either.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:25:57am

re: #59 Ericus58

TOTALLY different reason for our presence to the reason for the Soviet Union's foray.

Does having a different reason make us more likely to succeed where they failed?

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:26:10am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Venn Diagram:

Image: Venn-Diagram-pants.gif

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:27:54am

re: #48 Decatur Deb

We've pretty much done what can be done. It's getting time to Ranch Hand the poppy fields and split.

every single KIA is a wasted life...the situation there and in Pakistan is extremely fragile in terms of stability and neither are our friends...we are being used like a cheap whore...the Afghan police force or whatever they call it is a joke...fodder for the Taliban...Bo keeps kicking the can down the road while our kids die...what is the Plan?....why does the administration think we can subdue Karzai's tribal enemies with money?...we build a school, the Talis destroy it

Tigger2005 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:27:55am

re: #63 Fozzie Bear

Does having a different reason make us more likely to succeed where they failed?

Nope, but having better weapons and a more disciplined army helps.

Varek Raith Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:28:11am

Say, like, whut???

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:28:19am

re: #62 Tigger2005

Or funny, either.

Ha, thanks for the catch. Seriously, I can't believe there's a sizable chunk of America that sees this woman and thnks "We need to make her president." She is totally ignorant of the world around her and its history.

Randall Gross Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:28:39am

It wasn't Sputnik. If you wanted to argue from this point as Rand Paul & others might want to, you would have to reach back to the Possony/Clarke/Pournelle paper "Strategy of Technology". This paper spelled out how to economically war with the USSR by leapfrogging them technologically.

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:28:42am

Sarah Palin speaks and once again America has a face palm moment.

Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:28:44am

Just got my 1600th Twitter follower! Number of followers has increased by almost 200 in the past couple of weeks.

Tigger2005 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:30:06am

re: #68 HappyWarrior

Ha, thanks for the catch. Seriously, I can't believe there's a sizable chunk of America that sees this woman and thnks "We need to make her president." She is totally ignorant of the world around her and its history.

I thought she was OK at first. I mean, McCain picked her, she was the governor of a state, even if it was Alaska. I thought she had to be reasonably intelligent. I was very excited about her, I made excuses for her. But I'm just not the kind of person who can keep kidding myself.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:30:46am

There's so much freaking snow here it's impossible to shovel yourself a parking spot. Not because the snow is hard to move, but rather because there's freaking nowhere to put the snow you are shoveling that it doesn't create another problem.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:31:02am

There's an excellent book called "Autopsy on an Empire" (Warning: long) by the US Ambassador to the Soviet Union when it collapsed.

One of the things that I learned about what the role of nationalism in the collapse of the Soviet Union. Or, put plainly, Armenians don't like Azerbaijanis, (& vice versa) and nobody liked the Russians. Especially the Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:31:03am

re: #59 Ericus58

TOTALLY different reason for our presence to the reason for the Soviet Union's foray.

yeah?...what is that, and why does it matter?

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:32:00am

re: #72 Tigger2005

I thought she was OK at first. I mean, McCain picked her, she was the governor of a state, even if it was Alaska. I thought she had to be reasonably intelligent. I was very excited about her, I made excuses for her. But I'm just not the kind of person who can keep kidding myself.

Well, good on you. I have to admit, I was intially intrigued by her. I was going to vote for Obama anyhow but I trusted that McCain and his people would make a reasonable selection and then we got to know her better. Plus, it's niot just the total lack of intelligence, it's the persistent whining and victimhood crap she does when things don't go her way. She's more of a whiner than a leader.

Stanghazi Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:32:49am

I'm going to post this again,

From Andrew Halcro, Republican in Alaska who ran against Sister Sarah for Gov. He really lays it out.

"Who is responsible for Sarah Palin?"

[Link: www.andrewhalcro.com...]

Stanghazi Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:33:09am

re: #77 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.andrewhalcro.com...]

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:33:09am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

There's so much freaking snow here it's impossible to shovel yourself a parking spot. Not because the snow is hard to move, but rather because there's freaking nowhere to put the snow you are shoveling that it doesn't create another problem.

*_*

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:33:14am

re: #71 Charles

Just got my 1600th Twitter follower! Number of followers has increased by almost 200 in the past couple of weeks.

Followers:

Image: whites240.jpg

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:33:15am

WTF?

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:33:50am

re: #66 Tigger2005

Nope, but having better weapons and a more disciplined army helps.

We are facing he same problem they did. Sure, you can beat local forces in a fight, but you can't actually have a victory when they refuse to stop fighting. (both us, and each other)

I mean, how long have we been there? How long until the mission can be said to be accomplished? What is the mission, such that it could be achieved? If we achieve it, will it stay achieved without a large perpetual American military presence?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:34:28am

re: #78 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.andrewhalcro.com...]

doesn't really paint Alaskans in a very positive light, does it? ;-)

Tigger2005 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:34:40am

re: #75 albusteve

yeah?...what is that, and why does it matter?

Uh, the difference in reasons is obvious. The Soviets wanted to expand their empire into Afghanistan. The U.S. wanted to eliminate Afghanistan as a base for al-Qaeda.

Of course the reasons don't make us more or less likely to succeed in defeating the Taliban. Only the fact that we have better weapons and a better army than the Soviets did can affect that outcome. No guarantees, of course.

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:34:53am

Antelope grooming a cat

Youtube Video

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:36:08am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

One word.

Hibernate.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:36:41am

re: #84 Tigger2005

Uh, the difference in reasons is obvious. The Soviets wanted to expand their empire into Afghanistan. The U.S. wanted to eliminate Afghanistan as a base for al-Qaeda.

Of course the reasons don't make us more or less likely to succeed in defeating the Taliban. Only the fact that we have better weapons and a better army than the Soviets did can affect that outcome. No guarantees, of course.

sounds to me, both your ideas are just different words for the same goal....controlling the natives and the ground for security reasons...not falling for it

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:37:15am

re: #84 Tigger2005

Uh, the difference in reasons is obvious. The Soviets wanted to expand their empire into Afghanistan. The U.S. wanted to eliminate Afghanistan as a base for al-Qaeda.

Of course the reasons don't make us more or less likely to succeed in defeating the Taliban. Only the fact that we have better weapons and a better army than the Soviets did can affect that outcome. No guarantees, of course.

We succeeded. Now they aren't based in Afghanistan.

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:38:50am

As is tradition the wingnuts are lining up behind Sarah Palin on this.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:39:26am

Arms race/space race.

Not the same thing, and not just because a few letters are different.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:40:01am

re: #88 Decatur Deb

We succeeded. Now they aren't based in Afghanistan.

So, then what happens when we leave? Is having to maintain a perpetual large presence there a victory? Isn't that outcome EXACTLY what OBL wanted?

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:40:08am

re: #89 Gus 802
Why am I not surprised?

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:40:17am

re: #88 Decatur Deb

We succeeded. Now they aren't based in Afghanistan.

somebody should read up on the US Army's struggle to run down Geronimo and his tiny band of merry cutthroats....same fucking thing, a lesson unlearned

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:40:29am

re: #89 Gus 802

As is tradition the wingnuts are lining up behind Sarah Palin on this.

Good. I don't want her to disappear until she eats her way out of the chest of the GOP.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:40:39am

re: #74 EmmmieG

It was simply too big to hold together. Geography and native dislike doomed it from the day of it's formation. Hell, I don't know how Russia has stayed alive for so long.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:41:09am

re: #89 Gus 802

As is tradition the wingnuts are lining up behind Sarah Palin on this.

what's new?....my ears are ringing

Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:41:14am

And now the wingnuts are all accusing Obama of "plagiarism" in the SOTU speech.

I can't believe they never feel stupid, with this constant parade of phony outrages. It's mass insanity.

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:42:31am

re: #91 Fozzie Bear

So, then what happens when we leave? Is having to maintain a perpetual large presence there a victory? Isn't that outcome EXACTLY what OBL wanted?

I'm agreeing with you here. We actually wanted to eliminate Earth as a base for AQ. We just moved them over the next hill.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:43:10am

re: #94 Decatur Deb

Good. I don't want her to disappear until she eats her way out of the chest of the GOP.

I'm waiting for the fascination to burn out

100

Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:43:34am

At least Ed Morrissey had the honesty to shoot down the plagiarism accusations, but dozens of other wingnuts are gleefully parroting the stupidity.

101

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:44:00am

re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was simply too big to hold together. Geography and native dislike doomed it from the day of it's formation. Hell, I don't know how Russia has stayed alive for so long.

pure muscle

102

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:44:16am

re: #63 Fozzie Bear

Does having a different reason make us more likely to succeed where they failed?

The chapter on our involvement in Afghanistan is not finished.

I remember many voices also proclaiming our "Failure" and "We've lost", "The surge is useless" in Iraq. And I'm not attributing these statements to anyone here in particular... but I will attribute them to many Democratic leaders.
As we transit out of Iraq and the Iraqis take more responsibility for their own security and destiny - time will tell if they succeed. That is up to them.

In regards to Afghanistan, we took on the mission to remove the Taliban from using that country as their power base. We have spent our national treasure as measured in our men and women who have given their lives or been wounded in this endeavor. The battle still goes on, with AQ and the Pakistan support.

Is it a failure that many of the population in Afghan have opportunities in life - especially the women and girls - that would not have existed if we had done nothing?
Afghanistan is a much harder situation for many reasons in comparison to Iraq; literacy rates, lower standard of living, lack of transportation, lack of a manufacturing base..... this will require much more time and effort. And it should not just be American doing the heavy lifting only - the U.N. and the world in general should be assisting (not that some will, it's not in their interest to do so...).

103

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:44:16am

re: #97 Charles

What are they saying he plagiarized? I'm guessing something they thought was good?

Take something from one source, "plagiarism".
Take something from several sources, "research".

104

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:46:08am

re: #103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Dang. You beat me to it. [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

Read the whole thing. It is near the bottom.

105

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:46:20am

re: #100 Charles

At least Ed Morrissey had the honesty to shoot down the plagiarism accusations, but dozens of other wingnuts are gleefully parroting the stupidity.

But remember, they are not an echo chamber.

106

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:47:00am

Every time she opens her mouth, I feel slightly more distant from certain family members - educated, intelligent people who, in spite of anything and everything, still somehow think she's the brightest star in the sky.

107

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:47:01am

re: #103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What are they saying he plagiarized? I'm guessing something they thought was good?

Take something from one source, "plagiarism".
Take something from several sources, "research".

Actually, the difference is acknowledging something was originally written by another person.

108

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:47:06am

re: #102 Ericus58

The chapter on our involvement in Afghanistan is not finished.

I remember many voices also proclaiming our "Failure" and "We've lost", "The surge is useless" in Iraq. And I'm not attributing these statements to anyone here in particular... but I will attribute them to many Democratic leaders.
As we transit out of Iraq and the Iraqis take more responsibility for their own security and destiny - time will tell if they succeed. That is up to them.

In regards to Afghanistan, we took on the mission to remove the Taliban from using that country as their power base. We have spent our national treasure as measured in our men and women who have given their lives or been wounded in this endeavor. The battle still goes on, with AQ and the Pakistan support.

Is it a failure that many of the population in Afghan have opportunities in life - especially the women and girls - that would not have existed if we had done nothing?
Afghanistan is a much harder situation for many reasons in comparison to Iraq; literacy rates, lower standard of living, lack of transportation, lack of a manufacturing base... this will require much more time and effort. And it should not just be American doing the heavy lifting only - the U.N. and the world in general should be assisting (not that some will, it's not in their interest to do...snip

The chapter on our involvement in Iraq is not finished.

109

Egregious Philbin Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:47:35am

Wow, Idaho State grads just don't have much education in science or politics.

110

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:48:10am

re: #102 Ericus58

The chapter on our involvement in Afghanistan is not finished.

I remember many voices also proclaiming our "Failure" and "We've lost", "The surge is useless" in Iraq. And I'm not attributing these statements to anyone here in particular... but I will attribute them to many Democratic leaders.
As we transit out of Iraq and the Iraqis take more responsibility for their own security and destiny - time will tell if they succeed. That is up to them.

In regards to Afghanistan, we took on the mission to remove the Taliban from using that country as their power base. We have spent our national treasure as measured in our men and women who have given their lives or been wounded in this endeavor. The battle still goes on, with AQ and the Pakistan support.

Is it a failure that many of the population in Afghan have opportunities in life - especially the women and girls - that would not have existed if we had done nothing?
Afghanistan is a much harder situation for many reasons in comparison to Iraq; literacy rates, lower standard of living, lack of transportation, lack of a manufacturing base... this will require much more time and effort. And it should not just be American doing the heavy lifting only - the U.N. and the world in general should be assisting (not that some will, it's not in their interest to do so...).

we know all that...so what's BOs plan?....he's telegraphed and moved the withdrawal dates down the road...what is his idea of success?...you are comfortable with this tragic nonsense, I am not...the reason nobody is over there backing us up is because they know it's doomed to fail....hello?

111

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:48:18am

re: #107 EmmmieG
True. If you acknowledge the source you are not stealing.

112

makeitstop Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:48:48am

I'm starting to think that Palin is due to say something smart pretty soon. It'll probably be by accident, but even a streak of blinding stupidity has to end sooner or later.

113

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:49:00am

re: #104 PhillyPretzel

Yeah. I stole it.

114

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:49:11am

re: #108 Decatur Deb

The chapter on our involvement in Iraq is not finished.

I don't disagree.
Let's see what happens by the end of this year.

115

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:49:29am

re: #111 PhillyPretzel

True. If you acknowledge the source you are not stealing.

Well, for words and ideas. Just about everything else, you gotta pay.

116

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:49:36am

Palin hails Bachmann, dismisses GOP divide

Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin gave an "attagirl" to Bachmann during an interview last night on Fox News, saying she thought the Minnesota Republican's remarks complemented the official GOP response from House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan.

"I love it when anybody goes rogue for the right reasons," Palin said, adding that both counterpoints to Obama were "conservative, common-sense messages."

117

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:50:12am

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
LOL

118

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:50:19am

By the way. Plagiarism is spelled wrong. I don't care what the dictionary says. It's just not right.

119

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:50:48am

re: #114 Ericus58

I don't disagree.
Let's see what happens by the end of this year.

that's what I thought

120

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:51:41am

re: #114 Ericus58

I don't disagree.
Let's see what happens by the end of this year.

You might live long enough to see the end-game in Iraq. I suspect our blood and national sacrifice be forgotten in a couple decades.

121

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:51:42am

re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way. Plagiarism is spelled wrong. I don't care what the dictionary says. It's just not right.

Speaking of words, is it just me or does innuendo just sound dirty?

122

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:52:42am

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It is supposed to sound dirty because it is.

123

HAL2010 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:53:04am

Once again it seems that Palin cannot help but go totally "beyond the Palin".

124

RadicalModerate Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:53:05am

re: #97 Charles

And now the wingnuts are all accusing Obama of "plagiarism" in the SOTU speech.

I can't believe they never feel stupid, with this constant parade of phony outrages. It's mass insanity.

Given that a significant amount of Obama's State of the Union speech was restated information that he had given in prior speeches dating back to 2004, does this mean that the President was plagiarizing himself?

125

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:53:11am

HE'S COMING FER YUR GUNZ!

White House to Push Gun Control

in the next two weeks, the White House will unveil a new gun-control effort in which it will urge Congress to strengthen current laws, which now allow some mentally unstable people, such as alleged Arizona shooter Jared Loughner, to obtain certain assault weapons, in some cases without even a background check.

Tuesday night after the speech, Obama adviser David Plouffe said to NBC News that the president would not let the moment after the Arizona shootings pass without pushing for some change in the law, to prevent another similar incident. “It’s a very important issue, and one I know there’s going to be debate about on the Hill.”

126

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:53:56am

re: #114 Ericus58

I don't disagree.
Let's see what happens by the end of this year.

Is Iraq safer and more prosperous for its citizens than it was when we went in? Is Iraq a less hospitable environment for terrorists now?

I would say the answer to both is no. We failed our mission there, and, in classic American form, we act like the mission was accomplished. Where is Zarqawi now?

127

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:54:04am

re: #120 Decatur Deb

You might live long enough to see the end-game in Iraq. I suspect our blood and national sacrifice be forgotten in a couple decades.

so typical of American thinking....follow BO
meanwhile let's get re-elected....I resent the hell out of that shallow attitude

128

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:55:38am

re: #89 Gus 802

As is tradition the wingnuts are lining up behind Sarah Palin on this.

Come on 2012 GOP primary! I want to see chaos and lunacy

129

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:56:14am

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HE'S COMING FER YUR GUNZ!

White House to Push Gun Control

you can not legally obtain assault weapons...the same old, dried up misdirection...their own version of truncated reality

130

Big Steve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:56:38am

Here is my worry.......the national media, blogs, we at LGF, just about everyone is examining every inane puff of air leaking from Sarah Palin when the real worry should be my very governor.....Rick Perry. Perry is worse than Palin because he is just as stupid in beliefs but he is an infinitely better politician and could actually win the GOP nomination. This is a "leader" in a state with a projected $30B deficit that says the biggest challenge facing Texas is voter ID. Just saying that we should spend far more time worrying about Rick Perry than Sarah Palin.

131

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:57:32am

re: #123 HAL2010

Once again it seems that Palin cannot help but go totally "beyond the Palin".

basically millions of people buy what she says without question, why would she tone it down? It has nothing to do with anything other than what will work on people.

132

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:58:03am

re: #126 Fozzie Bear

Is Iraq safer and more prosperous for its citizens than it was when we went in? Is Iraq a less hospitable environment for terrorists now?

I would say the answer to both is no. We failed our mission there, and, in classic American form, we act like the mission was accomplished. Where is Zarqawi now?

I disagree on both counts...in fact neither point is even true

133

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:58:22am

re: #129 albusteve

you can not legally obtain assault weapons...the same old, dried up misdirection...their own version of truncated reality

Well, there are assault weapons, designed as such and then there are "assault weapons", which come from modifying existing weapons.

134

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:59:26am

re: #130 Big Steve

Here is my worry...the national media, blogs, we at LGF, just about everyone is examining every inane puff of air leaking from Sarah Palin when the real worry should be my very governor...Rick Perry. Perry is worse than Palin because he is just as stupid in beliefs but he is an infinitely better politician and could actually win the GOP nomination. This is a "leader" in a state with a projected $30B deficit that says the biggest challenge facing Texas is voter ID. Just saying that we should spend far more time worrying about Rick Perry than Sarah Palin.

yeah, he'll win the GOP nomination and then get mooshed into playdough by Obama's campaign, there's just no way, his negatives would be child's play to exploit and he'd look like a mentally deficient rube on the national stage.

135

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:59:27am

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, there are assault weapons, designed as such and then there are "assault weapons", which come from modifying existing weapons.

This is going to bog down over a bayonet lug.

136

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:00:10am

re: #110 albusteve

we know all that...so what's BOs plan?...he's telegraphed and moved the withdrawal dates down the road...what is his idea of success?...you are comfortable with this tragic nonsense, I am not...the reason nobody is over there backing us up is because they know it's doomed to fail...hello?

Steve - least you actually think that I'm all warm and fuzzy about "this tragic nonsense" - I'll just gently remind you that as the father of a son who this spring will be commisioned in the US Army as an MP and who stands a pretty good chance of being deployed into harms way, I follow what this administration commits our service members to.

The reasons for our being in Afghanistan have withstood the test of time and debate - this is not Iraq.
How we as a nation work through this and eventually complete our active military involvement is anyone's guess. But to pull up stakes and yank away any chance of a stable Afghanistan from existing would be more of a tragic nonsense.

137

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:01:12am

re: #134 WindUpBird

yeah, he'll win the GOP nomination and then get mooshed into playdough by Obama's campaign, there's just no way, his negatives would be child's play to exploit and he'd look like a mentally deficient rube on the national stage.

I don't see any secessionist doing well with moderates.

138

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:01:56am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

There's so much freaking snow here it's impossible to shovel yourself a parking spot. Not because the snow is hard to move, but rather because there's freaking nowhere to put the snow you are shoveling that it doesn't create another problem.

Boss Paul: That spot is Boss Kean's spot. And I told him that snow in it's your snow. What's your snow doin' in his spot?
Luke: I don't know, Boss.
Boss Paul: You better get in there and get it out, boy.

139

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:02:06am

Looks like the crazies are going to spend the next few weeks trying to fabricate a controversy out of the SOTU.

140

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:02:27am

re: #135 Decatur Deb

This is going to bog down over a bayonet lug.

Well how they hell else are you supposed to down a bear when you're out of ammo?

141

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:02:47am

re: #136 Ericus58

How we as a nation work through this and eventually complete our active military involvement is anyone's guess. But to pull up stakes and yank away any chance of a stable Afghanistan from existing would be more of a tragic nonsense.

This isn't really a substantively different argument from that made within the USSR to remain in Afghanistan. There are times when you have to realize that throwing good money after bad isn't sane. I think this is one of those times.

142

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:02:48am

re: #127 albusteve

so typical of American thinking...follow BO
meanwhile let's get re-elected...I resent the hell out of that shallow attitude

I would hope you're not trying to get into a pissing match with me.....

143

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:02:49am

re: #137 Fozzie Bear

I don't see any secessionist doing well with moderates.

EXACTLY

144

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:03:24am

re: #139 Gus 802

Looks like the crazies are going to spend the next few weeks trying to fabricate a controversy out of the SOTU.

well, they're uncreative, dull, hateful people, I expect that from them

145

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:03:53am

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well how they hell else are you supposed to down a bear when you're out of ammo?

Wildlife taser! [Link: www.torontosun.com...]

146

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:03:53am

re: #142 Ericus58

I would hope you're not trying to get into a pissing match with me...

Your bladder is no match for mine!!!!

*zzzzzip*

147

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:04:33am

re: #141 Fozzie Bear

This isn't really a substantively different argument from that made within the USSR to remain in Afghanistan. There are times when you have to realize that throwing good money after bad isn't sane. I think this is one of those times.

this afghanistan thing is past my pay grade :D

148

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:05:10am

re: #136 Ericus58

Steve - least you actually think that I'm all warm and fuzzy about "this tragic nonsense" - I'll just gently remind you that as the father of a son who this spring will be commisioned in the US Army as an MP and who stands a pretty good chance of being deployed into harms way, I follow what this administration commits our service members to.

The reasons for our being in Afghanistan have withstood the test of time and debate - this is not Iraq.
How we as a nation work through this and eventually complete our active military involvement is anyone's guess. But to pull up stakes and yank away any chance of a stable Afghanistan from existing would be more of a tragic nonsense.

you introduced Iraq into the convo, I didn't, and the two are not the same in hardly any aspect...you have not responded to one point I've raised...as for withstanding debate regarding Afghanistan, that's simply bullshit, the reasons are noble...now what?....what's the plan?...nevermind

149

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:05:18am

re: #138 oaktree

Another good metaphor for the Far-Right vs. Obama.

150

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:05:27am

I'll be back shortly - time for some soup and salad.

151

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:05:37am

re: #145 WindUpBird
At $1,995 it is out of my price range.

152

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:06:27am

Boy oh boy. That Ted Williams "golden voiced homeless" guy thing is already a pain in the ass.

153

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:07:05am

re: #152 Gus 802

Who could have possibly imagined a long-term homeless man would make bad choices? /

154

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:07:13am

re: #142 Ericus58

I would hope you're not trying to get into a pissing match with me...

don't need to....your idealism cannot be argued so good luck with that

155

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:07:15am

re: #136 Ericus58

Steve - least you actually think that I'm all warm and fuzzy about "this tragic nonsense" - I'll just gently remind you that as the father of a son who this spring will be commisioned in the US Army as an MP and who stands a pretty good chance of being deployed into harms way, I follow what this administration commits our service members to.

The reasons for our being in Afghanistan have withstood the test of time and debate - this is not Iraq.
How we as a nation work through this and eventually complete our active military involvement is anyone's guess. But to pull up stakes and yank away any chance of a stable Afghanistan from existing would be more of a tragic nonsense.

The Iraq incursion was idiocy, and I marched against it. A punitive expedition into Afghanistan made some kind of historical sense, but it no longer offers any return. I don't want to put your son at risk to no purpose. His service will be valuable to the nation elsewhere. (I'm not a hippy peacenik--30 yrs in DoD.)

156

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:10:29am

re: #153 Fozzie Bear

Who could have possibly imagined a long-term homeless man would make bad choices? /

And we'll get daily update in the news. I'm happy for his initial offers but this has seriously turned into yet another brainless gossip story. Now he's basically famous not for his voice (which hasn't even made any commercial splash like say, Casey Kasem or Wolfman Jack) but for his drinking problem. It's all part of the same Snookidemic™.

157

surlymarv Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:10:40am

re: #1 Obdicut

I am so relieved that the very first comment here makes exactly the point that I have been screaming at my newspapers and television. The "Sputnik moment" isn't about the USSR reaching space at all. It's about the United States realizing it had fallen behind and then pulling together as a country to achieve an incredible goal. Too many people didn't watch the speech and think our "Sputnik moment" simply means we need to do something really cool. That completely misses the point. Sputnik was the catalyst, not the result.

158

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:13:09am

re: #27 Decatur Deb

Yes--many things set them up. I've always thought that it was some idiot engineer at Chernobyl that started the avalanche.

100,000 troops passed through Chernobyl during the cleanup, maybe another 400,000 civillians. 10s of billions of dollars, countless sick with cancer, radiation poisoning, valuable resources and foreign currency dried up, the government exposed as incompetent, plus Afghanistan, plus everything else mentioned... I don't think the Red Army had the heart to put down a revolution anymore. It was just a matter of time.

159

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:13:51am

re: #157 surlymarv

I am so relieved that the very first comment here makes exactly the point that I have been screaming at my newspapers and television. The "Sputnik moment" isn't about the USSR reaching space at all. It's about the United States realizing it had fallen behind and then pulling together as a country to achieve an incredible goal. Too many people didn't watch the speech and think our "Sputnik moment" simply means we need to do something really cool. That completely misses the point. Sputnik was the catalyst, not the result.

And that "Sputnik Moment" also lead into a renewed emphasis on science and math education in the US, which if you think about it essentially also renewed/retriggered the internal US culture war about the teaching of evolution and science in school instead of religious-oriented mythology.

160

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:15:51am

Sputnik lead to to us putting a man on the moon. It lead to massive investment in science and technology.

Next thing you know there will be people claiming that the founding fathers abolished slavery and that they advocated for Christian theocracy. Oh... wait.

161

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:16:10am

re: #152 Gus 802

I saw him on Dr. Phil (in a bar, sound was off)... the dude looks crazy as shit.

That Ted Williams guy needs help too.

162

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:16:51am

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LOL

163

Gus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:20:19am

Hasta later.

164

Ericus58 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:25:17am

re: #154 albusteve

don't need to...your idealism cannot be argued so good luck with that

I will now christen you - "The Pumper".

165

calochortus Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:27:34am

Nothing like getting my morning facepalm.

I wonder why Sputnik took decades to bankrupt the USSR, but everyone else participating in the International Geophysical Year projects was just fine?

Maybe the message is that science is evil and we all need to ~~make more donuts~~ buy more Spudnuts.

166

Darth Vader Gargoyle Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:34:07am

re: #126 Fozzie Bear

Is Iraq safer and more prosperous for its citizens than it was when we went in? Is Iraq a less hospitable environment for terrorists now?

I would say the answer to both is no. We failed our mission there, and, in classic American form, we act like the mission was accomplished. Where is Zarqawi now?

Still dead.

167

Slap Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:35:34am

re: #38 albusteve

remember those dolls where their eyes are frozen open, you pull a cord and it blathers what you want to hear in a monotone?...after three blathers it repeats itself

Attention: Zappa reference ahead....

Who knew Sarah was the living incarnation of the Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny?

(Non-Zappa-ites, apologies for the obliqueness.)

168

BongCrodny Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:06:54am

re: #45 zora

palin and bachmann. they're cousins, identical cousins.

The Patty Dupe Show?

169

Ming Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:11:15am

Sarah Palin's mental illness does not fail to disappoint (I love that triple negative from The Sopranos). We're presently in a strange situation: her mental status is becoming clear to more and more people, but she did get 46% of the vote for Vice President, and that wasn't Vice President of her senior class in high school, so if she wants media coverage, she'll be able to get it.

I hope the country never nominates a person like this for such high office again. We've made some bad nominations. Maybe John Edwards was the crummiest human being to ever be on a presidential ticket, at least in modern times. But Sarah Palin was not property vetted by John McCain, and we can all see how disastrous a mistake that was.

170

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:13:40am

re: #10 JeffM70

She just dissed Reagan. I hope he can forgive her. I hope she can forgive herself.

Reagan was an easygoing guy, who occasionally revised history himself. I'm sure he'd be kind about this.

Nancy I'm not so sure about.

171

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:18:54am

re: #14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is the difference in the police in the United States and the police in the Soviet Union?

Warning shots.

-Yakov Smirnov

True, actually. Russian police are required to fire warning shots.

American PD are not permitted to.

This makes sense, if you consider that the odds are rather higher that the American criminal also has a gun.

Times are changing, however.

172

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:19:23am

If she doesn't know what a Sputnik moment is, she might not be the best person to lead us through one.

173

webevintage Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:19:34am

The nude lipstick look makes her look old.

That all I got....

174

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:19:37am

re: #19 Gus 802

Their foray into Afghanistan also played a big role.

Graveyard of empires.

175

webevintage Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:20:37am

Oh and "spudnut" at the end is priceless.

176

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:24:14am

re: #30 LoneStarSpur

Surely even her base can't be so stupid that they would buy into this.

Right?

Right?

Is Palin stupid, ignorant or disingenuous? All three?

God, I don't know anymore. These people are running around babbling about how the Pilgrims were getting away from socialism, and the Founders ended slavery, and I have no idea any more if this is resonating with people or not.

This, by the way, is why I am such a hard-ass about people who want to rewrite the Crusades. This shit never ends well.

177

Amory Blaine Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:25:29am

WTF can be said? A half wit being interviewed by an asshole.

178

Lidane Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:25:31am

re: #38 albusteve

remember those dolls where their eyes are frozen open, you pull a cord and it blathers what you want to hear in a monotone?...after three blathers it repeats itself

Unfortunately, John McCain and his idiot campaign handlers decided he needed that doll with the frozen eyes for his VP, and now we can't make her stop blathering.

*sigh*

179

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:27:06am

re: #72 Tigger2005

I thought she was OK at first. I mean, McCain picked her, she was the governor of a state, even if it was Alaska. I thought she had to be reasonably intelligent. I was very excited about her, I made excuses for her. But I'm just not the kind of person who can keep kidding myself.

I was really excited about her. Until the convention.

180

webevintage Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:27:51am

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

I was really excited about her. Until the convention.

Until she opened her mouth.

181

Amory Blaine Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:28:08am

re: #167 Slap

Attention: Zappa reference ahead...

Who knew Sarah was the living incarnation of the Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny?

(Non-Zappa-ites, apologies for the obliqueness.)

If I have to pick a Zappa Song, it would be Artificial Rhonda.

182

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:28:23am

re: #74 EmmmieG

There's an excellent book called "Autopsy on an Empire" (Warning: long) by the US Ambassador to the Soviet Union when it collapsed.

One of the things that I learned about what the role of nationalism in the collapse of the Soviet Union. Or, put plainly, Armenians don't like Azerbaijanis, (& vice versa) and nobody liked the Russians. Especially the Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians.

I'm told that in the old days, even if you spoke good Russian, you wanted to speak English on the streets of the Baltic republics. Even if people didn't understand, they'd try to help out. If you spoke Russian, the answer was (in flawless Russian), "I don't speak Russian."

183

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:30:14am

re: #85 Killgore Trout

Antelope grooming a cat
[Video]

Someone's gotta. That cat isn't going to lick itself.

Wait...

184

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:40:53am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

It played a huge role. Funny, that lesson is lost on us.

Late to the party, but they kept one thing the same in the new BBC modern day Sherlock - Watson is a veteran of Afganistan...

185

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:41:37am

One aspect of Sputnik and the Space Race that helped bankrupt the USSR: it was their inaability use their advances and inventions in space technology to benefit their civilian economy.

I worked for a filter company that got its start from the US space program, a doctor who turned his rocket technology patent (for cooling rocket fuel) into a successful product (for filtering corrosive substances).

Back in the early 90's we were pursuing joint ventures with the USSR, we often had specialists over. I would show them a piece of modern technology. They would tell me that some fellow at an institute in Minsk or Chelyabinsk had developed a prototype of the very same thing.

Difference was, this prototype was still sitting in a laboratory in Minsk, while in the West, it was already into its third generation of serial production.

186

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jan 27, 2011 12:47:39pm

re: #1 Obdicut

And she gets the meaning of "Sputnik moment" exactly backwards.

It wasn't a moment for the USSR. It was a moment for the US. One that made us realize we had to work our asses or fall quickly behind the technological race.

Of course, for people like Sarah Palin, who believe the US's exceptionalness comes from divine favor and not from the work of scientists, engineers, and working men and women, there can't be such a thing.

Nailed in the first post. Well done.

/OH SHIT! SCIENCE!

187

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 12:56:02pm

re: #28 Surabaya Stew

True that. Lets not forget that many former Nazi scientists (Operation Paperclip, anybody?) greatly assisted the USA and the USSR with designing the rockets. Neither side can say they they went into space without help from some dubious characters.

What Nazi scientists assisted the Soviets?

188

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 1:41:14pm

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

What Nazi scientists assisted the Soviets?

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

The Russians, however, also got their hands on both V-2 technology and members of von Braun's German rocket design team. It almost cost the United States the space race. The V-2 design was copied for Russia's first missile, the R-1. On October 4, 1957, a later version of the rocket, the R-7, launched Sputnik -- the world's first artificial satellite -- into orbit.

189

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 2:43:53pm

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

Thanks.

190

Four More Beers Thu, Jan 27, 2011 3:54:41pm

These daily - DAILY! - remarks by Palin (R-View of Russia), Bachmann (R-Mars), Rand Paul (R-Bad Hairsville), and Jim Demint (R-Confederacy), are grateful reminders to why Obama will be President for six more years.

191

drboobooday Thu, Jan 27, 2011 4:51:39pm

I liked the commenter at the Daily Beast who described this as a "full speed face plant." And seriously, Spudnuts? Is that part of her pro-dessert platform? You really have to watch the entire interview, if you haven't seen it. The whole thing is just a big mess.

192

Mark the Hiker Thu, Jan 27, 2011 4:52:20pm

The Beatles destroyed the Soviet Union:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

193

krypto Thu, Jan 27, 2011 6:58:08pm

Well, yeah, Sarah Palin has a point about that small business in Washington being her model of what America really needs. The United States could concentrate on eliminating "big government" goals like education that costs the rich tax money and focus instead on encouraging small family owned businesses -- and we could become a nation founded on small family owned shops, like maybe Afghanistan. It would be the Palin's answer to Obama, her "Race to the Bottom."

194

Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 28, 2011 2:06:00am

Afghanistan and Somalia are fine examples of how "small government" leads to success and prosperity...

Spy Mode Auto

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