ElBaradei Mobbed by Reporters in Cairo

Egypt on the brink of change?

Middle EastJanuary 2011 • Views: 26,342

Former feckless International Atomic Energy Agency head Mohamed ElBaradei is making a play to assume power in Egypt, and on his arrival today in Cairo he was mobbed by reporters — but not supporters.

Cairo - Egyptian opposition figure Mohamed ElBaradei arrived in Cairo Thursday, talking of ‘change’ as the country remained convulsed by three days of anti-government protests.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner and former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency was mobbed by dozens of reporters upon his arrival. However, there were no signs of the throngs of supporters who came out to see him when he flew in to Cairo last year to test the political waters for a possible presidential run.

Jump to bottom

146 comments

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:57:58am

There are so many variable factors here I cannot adjust for them all.

Were his former supporters out protesting elsewhere?
Are the roads clear? Is the trip to the airport safe?
Did anybody know he was coming in?
Is there another candidate?

_RememberTonyC Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:58:11am

I see no good choices in this situation.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 9:59:41am

BTW: A friend of a friend on Facebook (actually I think one of the above is a relative) posted that her brother is currently living in Egypt, and he texted:

Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, they beatin’ everybody out here in Cairo.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:01:28am

re: #3 EmmmieG

BTW: A friend of a friend on Facebook (actually I think one of the above is a relative) posted that her brother is currently living in Egypt, and he texted:

Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, they beatin’ everybody out here in Cairo.

My boss is from egypt, so is another co-worker, haven’t heard much from them on it, been meaning to ask. They have family there.

_RememberTonyC Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:01:49am

If the choices are Mubarak or his son, the feckless (great adjective Charles) elBaradei, or the muslim brotherhood, I see nothing but bad options. And even more ominously, a more hostile neighbor for Israel after 30 years of relative peace.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:09:33am

oh great…another professional liar as a head of state….Egypt is hurtin for certin if this man comes to power

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:10:17am

Egypt was hurting before. We just weren’t concerned because it was a relatively stable sort of fucked up.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:12:02am

if ElBar comes to the throne, first order of business will be obtaining nukes…bet me

BishopX Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:13:44am

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

I don’t really think we’re at a point where there are “choices”. Mubarak is going to leave power sometime relatively soon, he will either be overthrown, resign or die in office. Aside from Mubarak, it isn’t clear who all the players are. His son Gamal, the Muslim Brotherhood and ElBaradei (as well as his opposition movement) are good bets. But this street protest wasn’t instigated by any of them, it instigated mostly by pissed off young people, who don’t really have political agenda beyond the end of the state of emergency.

We don’t know where the army stands in all of this either. Gamal is being groomed for command, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other actors within the military. Is some rising star in the Egyptian military joins the protesters in calling for an end of the emergency rule they would pick up a lot of support for forming a military caretaker government until elections are called.

It’s really too soon to be calling anything in this game, lets wait until smoke clears a bit and see who comes walking out.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:17:04am

re: #9 BishopX

I don’t really think we’re at a point where there are “choices”. Mubarak is going to leave power sometime relatively soon, he will either be overthrown, resign or die in office. Aside from Mubarak, it isn’t clear who all the players are. His son Gamal, the Muslim Brotherhood and ElBaradei (as well as his opposition movement) are good bets. But this street protest wasn’t instigated by any of them, it instigated mostly by pissed off young people, who don’t really have political agenda beyond the end of the state of emergency.

We don’t know where the army stands in all of this either. Gamal is being groomed for command, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other actors within the military. Is some rising star in the Egyptian military joins the protesters in calling for an end of the emergency rule they would pick up a lot of support for forming a military caretaker government until elections are called.

It’s really too soon to be calling anything in this game, lets wait until smoke clears a bit and see who comes walking out.

a coup d’etat by a moderate military faction is probably the best scenario…power mad ideologues rising to power without election is the worst case

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:17:57am

I think power mad ideologues rising to power by being elected would be even worse, frankly.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:20:29am

Some guy just outside my office just tried to gun it out of his parking spot. The tires were spinning fast, high pitched whine, engine revving, no movement…. and then they caught on the pavement. His car is now on top of another car.

Some people are just struck retarded by snow.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:20:31am

re: #11 Fozzie Bear

I think power mad ideologues rising to power by being elected would be even worse, frankly.

Jimmy Carter needs to weigh in on this puzzle…he knows all about tossed elections and he is probably a close friend of the Egyptian hierarchy and power brokers

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:22:21am

re: #12 Fozzie Bear

Some guy just outside my office just tried to gun it out of his parking spot. The tires were spinning fast, high pitched whine, engine revving, no movement… and then they caught on the pavement. His car is now on top of another car.

Some people are just struck retarded by snow.

Like rain in San Diego.

BishopX Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:23:46am

re: #11 Fozzie Bear

As long as we’re talking worst case scenarios, I’m going to go with a open civil war leading to the collapse of civil society, and the eventual occupation of Egypt by the IDF.

lostlakehiker Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:25:35am

re: #11 Fozzie Bear

I think power mad ideologues rising to power by being elected would be even worse, frankly.

Yeah, wasn’t there some place in central Europe during the 1930’s?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:26:27am

re: #15 BishopX

As long as we’re talking worst case scenarios, I’m going to go with a open civil war leading to the collapse of civil society, and the eventual occupation of Egypt by the IDF.

If I had a choice between falling into the hands of the IDF, or the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood, it’s a no-brainer.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:26:54am

re: #8 albusteve

if ElBar comes to the throne, first order of business will be obtaining nukes…bet me

Impossible… he can’t find nukes.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:27:16am

On the other hand, if we’re going to elect zombie Reagan, maybe they could elect zombie Ramses.

Couldn’t get worse.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:27:29am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like rain in San Diego.

Like sun in Portland.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:27:48am

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Impossible… he can’t find nukes.

LOL

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:28:24am

re: #16 lostlakehiker

Yeah, wasn’t there some place in central Europe during the 1930’s?

Nope. Hitler never won an election.

[Link: www.huppi.com…]

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:29:35am

re: #22 Obdicut

Nope. Hitler never won an election.

[Link: www.huppi.com…]

Yep. 36% was the best he ever did. In a run-off.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:29:45am

re: #19 EmmmieG

On the other hand, if we’re going to elect zombie Reagan, maybe they could elect zombie Ramses.

Couldn’t get worse.

Or better yet the risen Osiris

Youtube Video

Stan the Demanded Plan Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:30:33am

Sorry OT, but in response to the ad in WSJ from 400 rabbi’s Fox pulls the “you are a Soros based group”

EricBoehlert

Fox News to rabbis: Drop dead; [Link: yhoo.it…]

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:31:25am

re: #22 Obdicut

Nope. Hitler never won an election.

[Link: www.huppi.com…]

What about Mussolini?

BishopX Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:31:34am

re: #17 EmmmieG

I disagree…The IDF trying to occupy Egypt would be a Vietnam moment for them, and they really, really don’t need that right now.

Jeezaloo Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:32:30am

What’s the beef with Mohamed ElBaradei around here?

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:32:36am

re: #27 BishopX

I disagree…The IDF trying to occupy Egypt would be a Vietnam moment for them, and they really, really don’t need that right now.

it’s a ridiculous notion….pure fiction, but it’d make a cool movie maybe

Vicious Babushka Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:34:00am

re: #27 BishopX

I disagree…The IDF trying to occupy Egypt would be a Vietnam moment for them, and they really, really don’t need that right now.

Putting 10 Plagues on the Egyptians would be a “war crime” and the U.N. would condemn it.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:34:24am

re: #27 BishopX

I disagree…The IDF trying to occupy Egypt would be a Vietnam moment for them, and they really, really don’t need that right now.

Oh, I don’t think it would be good for Israel.

I just think it would be better for the Egyptians, certainly the Copts.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:34:42am

re: #28 Jeezaloo

What’s the beef with Mohamed ElBaradei around here?

he’s a Nobel winner

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:34:45am

re: #29 albusteve

it’s a ridiculous notion…pure fiction, but it’d make a cool movie maybe

Armageddon Now

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:35:04am

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What about Mussolini?

That’s Southern Europe. And he got elected as a council member or something, but he launched a coup to take over the government.

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:36:12am

re: #25 Stanley Sea

Sorry OT, but in response to the ad in WSJ from 400 rabbi’s Fox pulls the “you are a Soros based group”

EricBoehlert

Fox News to rabbis: Drop dead; [Link: yhoo.it…]

Wow. A secret cabal of Jews. I hesitate to even bother asking if they actually have ties to Soros. I guess it doesn’t really matter.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:38:35am

re: #25 Stanley Sea

Sorry OT, but in response to the ad in WSJ from 400 rabbi’s Fox pulls the “you are a Soros based group”

EricBoehlert

Fox News to rabbis: Drop dead; [Link: yhoo.it…]

Holy shit. This is really fascinating, in a watching-a-train-wreck kind of way. Fox corp management has gone openly anti-semitic. WTF?

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:39:35am

re: #28 Jeezaloo

What’s the beef with Mohamed ElBaradei around here?

ElBaradei: Israeli occupation only understands force

Former IAEA chief expresses support for Palestinian resistance, calls Gaza ‘world’s biggest jail’

If he assumes power in Egypt it could be quite possible that Israel will have to eventually retake the Sinai to keep the suez canal open and stop arms shipments into gaza.

Stan the Demanded Plan Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:39:52am

re: #36 Fozzie Bear

Holy shit. This is really fascinating, in a watching-a-train-wreck kind of way. Fox corp management has gone openly anti-semitic. WTF?

To protect their Beckster. Crazy $

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:40:37am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

Wow. A secret cabal of Jews. I hesitate to even bother asking if they actually have ties to Soros. I guess it doesn’t really matter.

They got $150,000 from the Open Society Institute. Obviously that means they’re just minions of Soros, carrying out his evil Jew plan to criticize people who are anti-semitic.

Wait, what?

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:44:08am

re: #39 Obdicut

This is extremely disturbing. It’s one thing to protect their golden goose through deflection dismissal of his shtick as ‘entertainment’. It’s quite another to jump in and actually start spouting insane conspiracy theories as a corporation.

This is a strong indication that the corporate culture at Fox, all the way to the top, is basically some flavor of white nationalist in nature. Wow.

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:46:01am

re: #39 Obdicut

Update: They got a total of $350,000 from the Open Society Institute.

[Link: docs.google.com…]

They have $12 million in net assets.

Clearly, they were bought off by Soros.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:46:06am

Fox has officially drunk their own kool aid.

Bob Levin Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:46:12am

re: #36 Fozzie Bear

The whole network just jumped the shark. What ever happened to reporting the news?

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:46:51am

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

Fox has officially drunk their own kool aid.

Is anyone really surprised? To properly tell a lie you need to believe there is a kernel of truth to it.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:47:16am

re: #43 Bob Levin

The whole network just jumped the shark. What ever happened to reporting the news?

Well, there’s always CNN and MSNBC… Oh wait… CNN has Erick Erickson and gave Bachmann a podium. Cable news is just fucked. Fucked.

jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:48:30am

Completely off topic but thought I’d share, the weather here in MD is bad really bad. So bad that my family has moved out of our house today for a bit, there’s no power and the place was down to around 40 to 50 degrees. Luckily we found a motel with power that accepted cats, our two felines are being surprisingly non-combative/escape prone about the entire thing, though that may just be because they’re in shock.

Both of them (and they usually want to give each other a fair amount of space) are huddled together underneath my moms bed and have been there since we last checked in about an hour ago….

BishopX Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:50:11am

re: #46 jamesfirecat
I’m sorry to hear that.

If it’s going to get below freezing you might want to think about investing a in a generator. Having your pipes freeze is a major hassle.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:50:11am

re: #44 McSpiff

Is anyone really surprised? To properly tell a lie you need to believe there is a kernel of truth to it.

not me…Fox went off the rails years back, interesting for sure but hardly unpredictable…but then I’m not prone to shock and disbelief and all that drama

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:50:24am

re: #46 jamesfirecat

Cats will do that when freaked out. Who knows, maybe this will be a bonding moment for them.

I hope you and yours are ok, and I hope the pipes don’t freeze at your house.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:51:34am

re: #46 jamesfirecat

Completely off topic but thought I’d share, the weather here in MD is bad really bad. So bad that my family has moved out of our house today for a bit, there’s no power and the place was down to around 40 to 50 degrees. Luckily we found a motel with power that accepted cats, our two felines are being surprisingly non-combative/escape prone about the entire thing, though that may just be because they’re in shock.

Both of them (and they usually want to give each other a fair amount of space) are huddled together underneath my moms bed and have been there since we last checked in about an hour ago…

Time to whip out those old scouting skills… build a campfire.

Buck Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:52:14am

re: #46 jamesfirecat

Completely off topic but thought I’d share, the weather here in MD is bad really bad. So bad that my family has moved out of our house today for a bit, there’s no power and the place was down to around 40 to 50 degrees. Luckily we found a motel with power that accepted cats, our two felines are being surprisingly non-combative/escape prone about the entire thing, though that may just be because they’re in shock.

Both of them (and they usually want to give each other a fair amount of space) are huddled together underneath my moms bed and have been there since we last checked in about an hour ago…

Keep the water running, that can help with avoiding the pipes freezing thing.

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:53:06am

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

I ~~saw a turtle~~ made a page about Fox’s latest asshattery.

I really can’t believe they’re just ballsing this one out. They’re basically saying that as long as Jews are on the ‘left’— which most Jews are— they don’t count.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:53:10am

re: #44 McSpiff

Is anyone really surprised? To properly tell a lie you need to believe there is a kernel of truth to it.

I am actually somewhat surprised that management is now openly and unashamedly anti-semitic. I always figured Fox was in it for the money. Now it seems pretty clear this isn’t just about money. This is just evil.

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:53:58am

re: #51 Buck

Keep the water running, that can help with avoiding the pipes freezing thing.

Beat me to it. We had the same thing happen, held us over till we got a hold of some propane heaters used at construction sites to get them above freezing (warning: very easy to asphyxiate yourself with those things).

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:54:45am

Thing is, if the power is out, so is the well pump.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:56:45am

Oh, yeah, and, thanks for not abandoning your cats.

People do do that, you know.

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:56:49am

re: #55 Fozzie Bear

Thing is, if the power is out, so is the well pump.

Assuming there is a well. City water generally doesn’t have that problem.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:57:23am

re: #54 McSpiff

Beat me to it. We had the same thing happen, held us over till we got a hold of some propane heaters used at construction sites to get them above freezing (warning: very easy to asphyxiate yourself with those things).

Specially if you tie them around your neck.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:57:24am

re: #57 McSpiff

Assuming there is a well. City water generally doesn’t have that problem.

Good point.

Interesting Times Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:58:34am

re: #52 Obdicut

I really can’t believe they’re just ballsing this one out. They’re basically saying that as long as Jews are on the ‘left’— which most Jews are— they don’t count.

Have they started calling them “Jewicidal” yet? :/

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 10:58:58am

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

Specially if you tie them around your neck.

It was so cold those couple days, if they weren’t so heavy I woulda been tempted. I ended up driving an hour away to stay at a friends place, the folks got the permission of a couple who winters in Florida to use their house as a shelter for the street —they had a propane fireplace to heat the house with.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:00:20am

re: #55 Fozzie Bear

Thing is, if the power is out, so is the well pump.

I’m not sure how they do it out east, but up in MI where I am from, you don’t let pipes freeze…insulation will prevent it most of the time, and then you go to kerosene heaters…and I had a big assed wood stove that heated the entire house, both floors…invest, stock up, prepare and all’s well

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:00:49am

re: #55 Fozzie Bear

Thing is, if the power is out, so is the well pump.

then drain the lines

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:02:38am

re: #57 McSpiff

Assuming there is a well. City water generally doesn’t have that problem.

why would he have a well pump for city water?…people usually know the source of their water

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:02:39am

re: #46 jamesfirecat

Completely off topic but thought I’d share, the weather here in MD is bad really bad. So bad that my family has moved out of our house today for a bit, there’s no power and the place was down to around 40 to 50 degrees. Luckily we found a motel with power that accepted cats, our two felines are being surprisingly non-combative/escape prone about the entire thing, though that may just be because they’re in shock.

Both of them (and they usually want to give each other a fair amount of space) are huddled together underneath my moms bed and have been there since we last checked in about an hour ago…

If you have city water, then set all your facets at a low drip. If the house is in the 40-50 degree (f) range, then it’s doing a good job of holding some heat, and unless your temps get below zero tonight, with faucets dripping, you shouldn’t freeze up.

Check around the house and see if you kitchen or bathroom pipes are against outside walls. If they are, try wrapping them where they are exposed, with heavy bath towels and duck tape.

You should be fine. The normal air temperature in this house sits between 55-65 degrees, and nothing freezes unless we have a night or two of below zero. And this is a large sprawling house with a number of badly though out plumbing choices, running through brick, against outside walls, and we have an unheated basement the same size of the house.

Do the two things I suggested.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:03:34am

re: #64 albusteve

why would he have a well pump for city water?…people usually know the source of their water

Well, i dunno what JFC’s water situation is. I’m sure james does.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:03:41am

re: #52 Obdicut

I ~~saw a turtle~~ made a page about Fox’s latest asshattery.

I really can’t believe they’re just ballsing this one out. They’re basically saying that as long as Jews are on the ‘left’— which most Jews are— they don’t count.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Well, I used to consider myself pretty solidly “right wing.”

I’m reconsidering that now.

My mother is shepping nachas.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:04:05am

re: #64 albusteve

why would he have a well pump for city water?…people usually know the source of their water

How are you going to blow the lines without electricity? Without a compressor? And does James or his family even know how to winterize pipes?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:04:50am

re: #67 Alouette

Well, I used to consider myself pretty solidly “right wing.”

I’m reconsidering that now.

My mother is shepping nachas.

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is “Shepping nachas”?

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:04:52am

re: #64 albusteve

why would he have a well pump for city water?…people usually know the source of their water

See Fozzie’s reply to you.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:05:08am

re: #69 EmmmieG

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is “Shepping nachas”?

Kvelling.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:05:25am

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

It actually hurts when I leave nice, informative messages. Crankypants misses RP.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:05:36am

re: #69 EmmmieG

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is “Shepping nachas”?

I read it is “schlepping nachos”. Carrying large amounts of mexican food around?

I’m at a loss.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:06:03am

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

How are you going to blow the lines without electricity? Without a compressor? And does James or his family even know how to winterize pipes?

if he’s on a well just drain the lines…if not let them drip….they won’t freeze overnight unless it becomes extremely, I mean fucking cold….it takes a while

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:07:14am

Haven’t read the thread yes - but I’m wondering why ElBaradei is being derided.

He said that the WMD charges were not sufficient rationale to justify invading Iraq. I would agree, and in the end, the inspections turned up no weapons.

He was the target of the far-right Bolton. That, in itself, is a pretty strong recommendation in my book.

I know that far-right Israelis hate the guy - but I agree with his assertion that a military alternative in dealing with Iran would be a mistake.

So I’m curious he’s done to earn the derision. Are folks upset that he said that the threat posed by Iran’s nuclear armament is overstated?

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:07:16am

re: #72 Walter L. Newton

It actually hurts when I leave nice, informative messages. Crankypants misses RP.

You know, a series of pages on how to prepare for basic mini-disasters here might be a neat idea. Blizzard, flood, etc.

jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:07:40am

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

If you have city water, then set all your facets at a low drip. If the house is in the 40-50 degree (f) range, then it’s doing a good job of holding some heat, and unless your temps get below zero tonight, with faucets dripping, you shouldn’t freeze up.

Check around the house and see if you kitchen or bathroom pipes are against outside walls. If they are, try wrapping them where they are exposed, with heavy bath towels and duck tape.

You should be fine. The normal air temperature in this house sits between 55-65 degrees, and nothing freezes unless we have a night or two of below zero. And this is a large sprawling house with a number of badly though out plumbing choices, running through brick, against outside walls, and we have an unheated basement the same size of the house.

Do the two things I suggested.

Thanks for the advice (and not just from you Walter) but its not exactly something we can easily act on at the moment, as I was only able to start posting once we got to the hotel. When we left the temp was 56 degrees and its about 37 out there, so even without us there the house’s pipes should be okay, they were still producing warm water when we left…

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:08:03am

re: #74 albusteve

if he’s on a well just drain the lines…if not let them drip…they won’t freeze overnight unless it becomes extremely, I mean fucking cold…it takes a while

I know that… but we don’t know what kind of lines he’s on… we have a well here… see my… re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Vicious Babushka Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:08:12am

OK I had my little fun.

“Shepping nachas” and “kvelling” is something your mother does when you get an A+ on your math test, or graduate from medical school, or win the Nobel Prize.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:09:04am

In my case, my mother is “shepping nachas” because I stopped being a Republican.

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:09:06am

re: #67 Alouette

This is just more bullshit attempts to divide the Jewish community, and what’s sad is that Abe Foxman is falling for it. He’s criticizing the JFFJ and the rabbis for calling Beck and Fox out on this on Holocaust Remembrance Day, as though it’s somehow appropriate. The lameness of his defense of them is idiotic— that they’re not holocaust deniers. He ignores that Beck regularly features books and writers who are, in fact, holocaust deniers, or worse— holocaust celebrators. He ignores the actual message of the JFFJ— that criticizing someone for what they did to survive the Holocaust at the age of fourteen is just morally fucking reprehensible.

I am so damn disappointed in the ADL.

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:09:43am

re: #78 Walter L. Newton

I know that… but we don’t know what kind of lines he’s on… we have a well here… see my… re: #65 Walter L. Newton

You two are starting to sound like my dad and his brothers. Too many tradesmen in one room.

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:10:22am

re: #12 Fozzie Bear

Some guy just outside my office just tried to gun it out of his parking spot. The tires were spinning fast, high pitched whine, engine revving, no movement… and then they caught on the pavement. His car is now on top of another car.

Some people are just struck retarded by snow.

The past 24 hours of watching drivers in Philly has me questioning the theory of evolution. One-celled amoebae could drive better in snow than the average Philadelphian.

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:11:08am

re: #8 albusteve

if ElBar comes to the throne, first order of business will be obtaining nukes…bet me

Can you explain that?

PhillyPretzel Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:11:44am

re: #83 Talking Point Detective
That is the truth. Too many folks do not know how to drive in this snowy weather.

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:12:33am

re: #81 Obdicut

This is just more bullshit attempts to divide the Jewish community, and what’s sad is that Abe Foxman is falling for it. He’s criticizing the JFFJ and the rabbis for calling Beck and Fox out on this on Holocaust Remembrance Day, as though it’s somehow appropriate. The lameness of his defense of them is idiotic— that they’re not holocaust deniers. He ignores that Beck regularly features books and writers who are, in fact, holocaust deniers, or worse— holocaust celebrators. He ignores the actual message of the JFFJ— that criticizing someone for what they did to survive the Holocaust at the age of fourteen is just morally fucking reprehensible.

I am so damn disappointed in the ADL.

Seriously, the fox narrative is now that all Jewish groups are in league with the Rich Jew, who is secretly trying to take over and destroy the country for some nefarious ends. If only the evil Rich Jew wasn’t allowed to continue in his evil ways, the homeland would be strong again.

I don’t want to Godwin the thread, but this is seriously like Nazi Madlibs at this point.

lawhawk Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:12:51am

Is it really surprising that the chattering class of journalists mobbed ElBaradei but the run of the mill Egyptian didn’t give him the time of day?

The guy may be favored because he got a Nobel Prize while part of the IAEA, but he, like Mubarak, isn’t going to give a rat’s ass about the Egyptians beyond his inner circle and sycophants and privileged class.

Once again, we’re dealing with the evil of lessers - and the lesser of evils.

Egypt’s choices are apparently to reject Mubarak, but their options include ElBaradei and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Some choice.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:13:11am

re: #81 Obdicut

This is just more bullshit attempts to divide the Jewish community, and what’s sad is that Abe Foxman is falling for it. He’s criticizing the JFFJ and the rabbis for calling Beck and Fox out on this on Holocaust Remembrance Day, as though it’s somehow appropriate. The lameness of his defense of them is idiotic— that they’re not holocaust deniers. He ignores that Beck regularly features books and writers who are, in fact, holocaust deniers, or worse— holocaust celebrators. He ignores the actual message of the JFFJ— that criticizing someone for what they did to survive the Holocaust at the age of fourteen is just morally fucking reprehensible.

I am so damn disappointed in the ADL.

I don’t know what the hell is happening at the ADL, but they aren’t exactly performing their mission any more. One would think this would be a pretty obvious example of defamation, you know, the thing the ADL is supposed to be “anti”.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:13:39am

re: #76 McSpiff

You know, a series of pages on how to prepare for basic mini-disasters here might be a neat idea. Blizzard, flood, etc.

Not a bad idea. Most Coloradans know enough not to venture on the highways over the Rockies with out a few blankets, extra water, extra heavy coats, power bars… even in the summer.

I have multiple emergency devices ready and available here. Gas generator, charge 18 volt batteries and snap on flashlights, I have flashlight strategically placed our the house. Battery operated radios (FRS, short wave, ham [receive only], Am, FM). Four laptops which are constantly on full charge, extra canned and dried foods… I could go on and on.

Basically we are covered for all the bad parts of the bible.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:14:01am

re: #76 McSpiff

You know, a series of pages on how to prepare for basic mini-disasters here might be a neat idea. Blizzard, flood, etc.

I think people should be able to figure it out….if you own a home, you need to get with the program, but I’m harsh that way….a house is a machine and where I grew up you simply had back up…in Richland MI we lost power 16 times in one year, 6 times in dead of winter….sometimes for several hours, but usually from a day to even 5-6 days….unbelievably bad grid system..Consumers Powere did not maintained their stuff, they’d contract it out to firms as far away as Ohio and Illinois…major outage could take many days…I had a few cords of wood, three jumbo kerosene heaters and 20-25gal of fuel…a lot of my neighbors had generators to run furnaces, pumps and fridges….maybe 30 amps or so..just had to be that way

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:14:27am

re: #82 McSpiff

You two are starting to sound like my dad and his brothers. Too many tradesmen in one room.

If I can’t be cranky with my good friend Steve, then who?

sproingie Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:14:44am

Foxman is a wingnut and the ADL is nothing more than his personal platform now. Donor flight is inevitable; he’ll have driven it completely into the ground within ten years.

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:15:03am

re: #82 McSpiff

You two are starting to sound like my dad and his brothers. Too many tradesmen in one room.

LOL….yup

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:16:03am

re: #84 Talking Point Detective

Can you explain that?

just riffin on his piss poor record with Iran and he’s a Jew hater

iossarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:16:29am

re: #90 albusteve

I think people should be able to figure it out…if you own a home, you need to get with the program, but I’m harsh that way…a house is a machine and where I grew up you simply had back up…in Richland MI we lost power 16 times in one year, 6 times in dead of winter…sometimes for several hours, but usually from a day to even 5-6 days…unbelievably bad grid system..Consumers Powere did not maintained their stuff, they’d contract it out to firms as far away as Ohio and Illinois…major outage could take many days…I had a few cords of wood, three jumbo kerosene heaters and 20-25gal of fuel…a lot of my neighbors had generators to run furnaces, pumps and fridges…maybe 30 amps or so..just had to be that way

This is one of the relatively “under the radar” advantages of electric cars - you can run most of your house off one for quite a while if you need to.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:16:29am

re: #90 albusteve

I think people should be able to figure it out…if you own a home, you need to get with the program, but I’m harsh that way…a house is a machine and where I grew up you simply had back up…in Richland MI we lost power 16 times in one year, 6 times in dead of winter…sometimes for several hours, but usually from a day to even 5-6 days…unbelievably bad grid system..Consumers Powere did not maintained their stuff, they’d contract it out to firms as far away as Ohio and Illinois…major outage could take many days…I had a few cords of wood, three jumbo kerosene heaters and 20-25gal of fuel…a lot of my neighbors had generators to run furnaces, pumps and fridges…maybe 30 amps or so..just had to be that way

That’s good advice Tim, and Al has a few other ideas… Al… take it away…

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:16:56am

re: #89 Walter L. Newton

Not a bad idea. Most Coloradans know enough not to venture on the highways over the Rockies with out a few blankets, extra water, extra heavy coats, power bars… even in the summer.

I have multiple emergency devices ready and available here. Gas generator, charge 18 volt batteries and snap on flashlights, I have flashlight strategically placed our the house. Battery operated radios (FRS, short wave, ham [receive only], Am, FM). Four laptops which are constantly on full charge, extra canned and dried foods… I could go on and on.

Basically we are covered for all the bad parts of the bible.

You’re covered for a seductress cutting your hair and siccing the bad guys on you?

You’re covered for being chucked into a den of coyotes?

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:17:11am

re: #89 Walter L. Newton

Not a bad idea. Most Coloradans know enough not to venture on the highways over the Rockies with out a few blankets, extra water, extra heavy coats, power bars… even in the summer.

I have multiple emergency devices ready and available here. Gas generator, charge 18 volt batteries and snap on flashlights, I have flashlight strategically placed our the house. Battery operated radios (FRS, short wave, ham [receive only], Am, FM). Four laptops which are constantly on full charge, extra canned and dried foods… I could go on and on.

Basically we are covered for all the bad parts of the bible.

I want to live with Mr Scoutster!…good for you

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:17:28am

re: #97 EmmmieG

You’re covered for a seductress cutting your hair and siccing the bad guys on you?

You’re covered for being chucked into a den of coyotes?

I wonder what his locust plan is. /

100

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:18:40am

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

That’s good advice Tim, and Al has a few other ideas… Al… take it away…

ahahaha!….that’s not even funny dude

101

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:18:49am

re: #89 Walter L. Newton

Not a bad idea. Most Coloradans know enough not to venture on the highways over the Rockies with out a few blankets, extra water, extra heavy coats, power bars… even in the summer.

I have multiple emergency devices ready and available here. Gas generator, charge 18 volt batteries and snap on flashlights, I have flashlight strategically placed our the house. Battery operated radios (FRS, short wave, ham [receive only], Am, FM). Four laptops which are constantly on full charge, extra canned and dried foods… I could go on and on.

Basically we are covered for all the bad parts of the bible.

We aren’t quite in the same situation you are, since we’re in the middle of a moderate sized city where 3-4 feet of snow would be worst case. So, we have propane generator, battery operated radios, laptops, cell phones that can tether for internet, and enough food and fuel to keep the house heated for 3 days. Plus camp gear to cook with. No one can remember the last time the city lost water so we aren’t worried about that.

Might not be perfect, but at the point where we run out of supplies, zombies are an issue.

102

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:18:50am

re: #97 EmmmieG

You’re covered for a seductress cutting your hair and siccing the bad guys on you?

You’re covered for being chucked into a den of coyotes?

Yep… I have about 20 really BIG tubes of steel that shoot BULLETS here.

103

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:20:16am

re: #101 McSpiff

We aren’t quite in the same situation you are, since we’re in the middle of a moderate sized city where 3-4 feet of snow would be worst case. So, we have propane generator, battery operated radios, laptops, cell phones that can tether for internet, and enough food and fuel to keep the house heated for 3 days. Plus camp gear to cook with. No one can remember the last time the city lost water so we aren’t worried about that.

Might not be perfect, but at the point where we run out of supplies, zombies are an issue.

water leaks are the most important thing to control…insulate the friggin pipes

104

Walter L. Newton Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #101 McSpiff

We aren’t quite in the same situation you are, since we’re in the middle of a moderate sized city where 3-4 feet of snow would be worst case. So, we have propane generator, battery operated radios, laptops, cell phones that can tether for internet, and enough food and fuel to keep the house heated for 3 days. Plus camp gear to cook with. No one can remember the last time the city lost water so we aren’t worried about that.

Might not be perfect, but at the point where we run out of supplies, zombies are an issue.

That’s a decent list for a “city dweller.” The zombie thing… double tap.

(you know, I thought that was one of the best stupid movies I ever saw, I couldn’t take my eyes off of it).

105

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:20:43am

re: #3 EmmmieG

BTW: A friend of a friend on Facebook (actually I think one of the above is a relative) posted that her brother is currently living in Egypt, and he texted:

Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, they beatin’ everybody out here in Cairo.

At least he’s got a sense of humor about the situation, that’s something.

Prayers.

106

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:22:08am

re: #19 EmmmieG

On the other hand, if we’re going to elect zombie Reagan, maybe they could elect zombie Ramses.

Couldn’t get worse.

Hell, at this point, zombie Sadat doesn’t sound like a terrible option.

107

wrenchwench Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:22:37am

re: #28 Jeezaloo

What’s the beef with Mohamed ElBaradei around here?

re: #75 Talking Point Detective

Haven’t read the thread yes - but I’m wondering why ElBaradei is being derided.

He said that the WMD charges were not sufficient rationale to justify invading Iraq. I would agree, and in the end, the inspections turned up no weapons.

He was the target of the far-right Bolton. That, in itself, is a pretty strong recommendation in my book.

I know that far-right Israelis hate the guy - but I agree with his assertion that a military alternative in dealing with Iran would be a mistake.

So I’m curious he’s done to earn the derision. Are folks upset that he said that the threat posed by Iran’s nuclear armament is overstated?

At the bottom of the post, there are some Tags. One of them says, “Mohamed ElBaradei”. If you click on that, you find some background on the coverage he’s received here. Handy feature. Here’s the link.

108

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:24:00am

my solution to destructive, freezing, snow blower climate, was to move, and I don’t even feel sorry for complainers up north…nobody, I mean nobody I know shoveled snow in MI….maybe the back deck

109

wrenchwench Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:24:20am

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, at this point, zombie Sadat doesn’t sound like a terrible option.

Much more difficult to assassinate a second time, I suppose.

110

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:24:36am

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, at this point, zombie Sadat doesn’t sound like a terrible option.

Zombie Pharaoh dressed better, but I’ll bet his teeth were horrid.

Osiris (someone mentioned earlier) would have the advantage of not needing nukes.

111

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:25:39am

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, at this point, zombie Sadat doesn’t sound like a terrible option.

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, at this point, zombie Sadat doesn’t sound like a terrible option.

he wasn’t, that’s why they killed him….a lot of the ME is just a bloody, vendette ridden hole

112

iossarian Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:29:58am

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

I wonder what his locust plan is. /

Too easy. I want to know where he keeps the pigs to receive the bad spirits (hint: near a precipitous cliff is good).

113

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:30:29am

re: #83 Talking Point Detective

The past 24 hours of watching drivers in Philly has me questioning the theory of evolution. One-celled amoebae could drive better ~~in snow~~ than the average Philadelphian.

FTFY.
(Four year resident of Philadelphia. Snow just makes the real issue more obvious —- Delaware and New Jersey drivers!!!!11!!!! ;) )

114

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:30:50am

re: #111 albusteve

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

he wasn’t, that’s why they killed him…a lot of the ME is just a bloody, vendette ridden hole

Well, that and the fact he screwed over most of his allies in the ‘73 war and made peace with Isreal.

115

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:32:23am

What an actual WTF moment is like:

Snow Accident Leads Cops to Bleeding Man Bound in Trunk

Police say the driver of the BMW apparently slid on the slick road at a stoplight and rear-ended a taxi. But the driver got out of the car and ran, and the taxi driver called 911.

Police noticed the back seat was folded down. They eventually discovered the unconscious man in the trunk, tied-up and bleeding from the head. He was hospitalized in stable condition and won’t tell detectives his identity.

The plates on the car didn’t match the vehicle registration, and police were looking for the owner.

116

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:32:35am

re: #114 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, that and the fact he screwed over most of his allies in the ‘73 war and made peace with Isreal.

and won a legit Nobel for it

117

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:33:19am

re: #103 albusteve

Dad works for the water utility. We got it covered.

re: #104 Walter L. Newton

That’s a decent list for a “city dweller.” The zombie thing… double tap.

(you know, I thought that was one of the best stupid movies I ever saw, I couldn’t take my eyes off of it).

I loved it. I’ve seen it 3 or 4 times now and still love it. But I love zombie horror comedy in general.

118

lostlakehiker Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:33:41am

re: #23 Fozzie Bear

Yep. 36% was the best he ever did. In a run-off.

Arguing that a candidate didn’t “really” win if he got less than 40 percent is a bit thin.

39 percent of the popular vote
If the candidate gets more votes than anybody else, and ends up in power according to some defensible interpretation of the rules, then saying they won the election is at least partly correct: had they done worse still in the voting, enough worse that some other candidate had a plurality, they’d probably not have ended up in office.

Now be clear, I’m NOT saying that these two candidates who “won” are equivalent in any broader sense than the purely technical: each had less than 40%.

119

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:33:55am

re: #115 Obdicut

What an actual WTF moment is like:

Snow Accident Leads Cops to Bleeding Man Bound in Trunk

sounds like slamming into a cab was not in the getaway plan…talk about dumb luck

120

McSpiff Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:35:05am

re: #104 Walter L. Newton

That’s a decent list for a “city dweller.” The zombie thing… double tap.

(you know, I thought that was one of the best stupid movies I ever saw, I couldn’t take my eyes off of it).

And if they gave Oscars for Best Cameo, Zombieland would have easily won.

121

reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:35:14am

Just a drive by…..
Has the world ended yet?
Are we playing ” Where in the World is R.P.”??
Stopped in last night and things were a little upside down?
Feeling better Walter?Hope so…
Hope all is well with Ya’ll!

122

albusteve Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:35:26am

I’m off to see the wizard

123

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:36:31am

re: #107 wrenchwench

Thanks - just looked through them. No I understand the “beef.”

FWIW - I see valid reasons for the criticism. That said, I think the basic “double-standard” argument that Charles’ derides is, in fact, a reality that needs to be dealt with if we’re going to make progress in the “GWOT” or on the animosity in the Arab world towards the U.S.

Global impressions about the U.S.’s double-standard on nuclear weapons is a huge roadblock to nuclear disarmament.

I’d like to see more information, in addition to the article linked above, to support the assertion that if he were elected, Israel will have to retake the Sinai….if anyone has any.

124

rwdflynavy Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:37:16am

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

I wonder what his locust plan is. /

Chocolate Fondue.//

125

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:38:46am

re: #118 lostlakehiker

Arguing that a candidate didn’t “really” win if he got less than 40 percent is a bit thin.

That’s not what’s being said. What’s being said is that Hitler never won an election. Because he didn’t. 36% in a run-off election wasn’t enough to win the election. It’s not that 40% isn’t really a win, it’s that his opponent, Hindenburg got 53%

Really, Hitler didn’t win the election. It’s just not true.

126

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:40:21am

I just checked the Isrraeli press and they don’t seem terribly alarmed by ElBaradei’s return to Egypt.

127

lawhawk Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:43:10am

re: #126 Killgore Trout

What exactly is Israel to do about the situation in Egypt? They’ll watch cautiously, and ElBaradei is preferable to the Brotherhood.

Israel’s problems have multiplied exponentially in the past few weeks with the Hizbullahization of Lebanon and the riots/protests in Jordan and Egypt (both of which are the only regimes to have a peace deal with Israel).

128

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:43:47am

British arrests over cyber group ‘Anonymous’

British police arrested five people Thursday as part of an investigation into cyber attacks by the online group “Anonymous”, which last year assailed websites that were hostile to WikiLeaks.

In a series of dawn raids in England, three teenage boys and two adult men were arrested on suspicion of breaking the Computer Misuse Act 1990, as part of an international probe, London’s Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) said.

“The five males aged 15, 16, 19, 20 and 26 are being held after a series of coordinated arrests at residential addresses,” a statement said.

It added: “The arrests are in relation to recent and ongoing ‘distributed denial of service’ attacks (DDoS) by an online group calling themselves ‘Anonymous’.

129

reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:45:14am

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Smart little fu^&*%’s….But as you all said here…They will be caught!

130

Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:45:49am

re: #127 lawhawk

What exactly is Israel to do about the situation in Egypt? They’ll watch cautiously, and ElBaradei is preferable to the Brotherhood.

Israel’s problems have multiplied exponentially in the past few weeks with the Hizbullahization of Lebanon and the riots/protests in Jordan and Egypt (both of which are the only regimes to have a peace deal with Israel).

I agree there’s not much they can do. They don’t seem that worried about ElBaradei , most of their concern seems to be the Muslim Brotherhood.

131

lawhawk Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:45:58am

MSNBC is characterizing ElBaradei as Egypt’s democracy leader, which is disingenuous. He’s certainly a challenger to Mubarak, but he isn’t a democracy leader and appears to lack popular backing.

132

Fozzie Bear Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:46:11am

re: #118 lostlakehiker

Arguing that a candidate didn’t “really” win if he got less than 40 percent is a bit thin.

39 percent of the popular vote
If the candidate gets more votes than anybody else, and ends up in power according to some defensible interpretation of the rules, then saying they won the election is at least partly correct: had they done worse still in the voting, enough worse that some other candidate had a plurality, they’d probably not have ended up in office.

Now be clear, I’m NOT saying that these two candidates who “won” are equivalent in any broader sense than the purely technical: each had less than 40%.

He didn’t win. At all. German law at the time required a simple majority.

133

BishopX Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:49:15am

re: #129 reloadingisnotahobby

Five down 9,995 to go…

134

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:49:57am

re: #132 Fozzie Bear

He didn’t win. At all. German law at the time required a simple majority.

Oh right, that too. I’d forgotten; there would have been runoffs until a candidate got over 50. It just happened on the first runoff.

So in that case, arguing a candidate didn’t really win if he got less than 40% would be absolutely and completely accurate.

135

prairiefire Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:50:32am

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

…aged 15, 16, 19, 20 and 26.”

136

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:50:56am

re: #129 reloadingisnotahobby

Smart little fu^&*%’s…But as you all said here…They will be caught!

I wonder if any took the attack leaders advice and told the cops that LOIC was a virus.

137

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:52:00am

re: #126 Killgore Trout

I just checked the Isrraeli press and they don’t seem terribly alarmed by ElBaradei’s return to Egypt.

I read the article you linked - but that seems like a fairly weak basis to make a strong conclusion that as an advocate for democracy, he represents a threat more than a path towards progress.

Sure, democratic elections in the Arab world haven’t necessarily brought progress to Israeli/Arab relations - but any hope of sustainable long-term progress is severely limited with oppressive autocrats in power.

138

Kragar Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:52:05am

re: #135 prairiefire

…aged 15, 16, 19, 20 and 26.”

And they’ve watched Hackers, The Matrix, and V for Vendetta 15328 times between the 5 of them.

139

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:52:50am

re: #131 lawhawk

MSNBC is characterizing ElBaradei as Egypt’s democracy leader, which is disingenuous. He’s certainly a challenger to Mubarak, but he isn’t a democracy leader and appears to lack popular backing.

Why do you say he isn’t a “democracy leader” (not sure what the means exactly, actually).

140

lostlakehiker Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:52:56am

re: #125 Obdicut

That’s not what’s being said. What’s being said is that Hitler never won an election. Because he didn’t. 36% in a run-off election wasn’t enough to win the election. It’s not that 40% isn’t really a win, it’s that his opponent, Hindenburg got 53%

Really, Hitler didn’t win the election. It’s just not true.

Hindenburg didn’t have a party. Hitler did, and his party was the single biggest party, with more votes than any other party and a larger number of seats in the Reichstag.

That provided Hitler with a power base. I’m not saying that Hitler won fair and square, but what I am saying is that elections played a role in Hitler’s rise to power, and had his party not been, at the crucial moment, the biggest single faction, things may well have turned out differently.

141

Lidane Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:54:47am

I was just talking about this over lunch with my Egyptian classmate. She was born and raised there, but hasn’t lived in Egypt in over 20 years.

Her family is okay, thankfully, but she was definitely not impressed by ElBaradei. She couldn’t see why anyone would support him, given that he hasn’t lived in Egypt in a long time either. As she put it, it would be like her trying to go back and run the country. She might understand Egyptian culture and the people there, but without being there day to day, it’s hard to really have a handle of life there and of what is needed to run the place.

From what she said, Egypt has a very closed, insular culture, and it would be very difficult for ElBaradei to win, given all the time he’s lived abroad.

142

Obdicut Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:55:48am

re: #140 lostlakehiker

Hindenburg didn’t have a party. Hitler did, and his party was the single biggest party, with more votes than any other party and a larger number of seats in the Reichstag.

That’s nice. Hitler still didn’t win an election.

I’m not saying that Hitler won fair and square, but what I am saying is that elections played a role in Hitler’s rise to power, and had his party not been, at the crucial moment, the biggest single faction, things may well have turned out differently.

The point is that it was the undemocratic processes in Germany that led to Hitler being in power, not the Democratic ones. The Nazis were losing seats when Hitler seized power. Please, read the article I linked above.

143

reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Jan 27, 2011 12:00:05pm

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder if any took the attack leaders advice and told the cops that LOIC was a virus.

It would be interesting to know how many man hours were used to catch them…I’d bet a shit load!

144

jordash1212 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 12:16:44pm

Who said there isn’t an alternative to the Muslim Brotherhood? NPR is reporting the protests as secular, and El-Baradei is really making a move. However the US has too much invested in Egypt to let it fall into the abyss, and Israel certainly doesn’t want an unstable government either. I guess it’s too soon to tell how Mubarak will respond to the protests.

145

abaleh Thu, Jan 27, 2011 12:35:25pm

there are alternatives, and the most likely alternative is that nothing will change.
Egypt is not Tunisia, it is not run by a single family supported by the military, but rather by a complex party apparatus, with millions of people dependent on it. While the military might not want Gamal Mubarak to take over after his father, these protests have nothing to do with that, and the military’s primary objective here should be to maintain the status quo, and deal with the succession issue directly with Mubarak.
Israel has absolutely no say in what happens in Egypt nor does it have any leverage with any of the parties involved.
the US could give financial guarantees if things escalate that would allow the Mobarak gov’t to subsidize staples and ensure the poor (the vast majority of the country) do not participate in protests.
The US had a lot invested in Iran but Carter still let that one slip through his fingers.

146

jordash1212 Thu, Jan 27, 2011 5:57:42pm

Carter didn’t set in motion a coup that would sow the seeds of anti-Western sentiment that caused the Islamic Revolution, Eisenhower and JFD did. If there’s anything that can be learned from the Islamic Revolution it’s that the military does not ultimately decide the governments’s fate. In the case of Egypt, the military has often been the force of change. However, I think if any real restructuring is to occur, it will require the merchants to subsidize the protests, in addition to the military. Even with 20% unemployment, the Egyptian youth still need to earn what they can to live.

We’ll see just how badly Egyptians want regime change. If they maintain the pressure they’ll force concessions at the very least. While Israel does not have a say with the Egyptians they certainly have the US’ ear. Our government has too much invested in Egypt and the region to let it fall into chaos. Given Yemen’s increasing state of instability, the American government won’t take any chances.

Spy Mode Auto

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

ElBaradei Mobbed by Reporters in Cairo

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud