Overnight Open Thread
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Heaven and hell seem out of proportion to me: the actions of men do not deserve so much.
— Jorge Luis Borges
427 comments
1 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:29:51pm |
Oh, I don’t know. When I think about children that died in their youth, Heaven seems about right.
| 2 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:34:07pm |
Which reminds me, I have a funeral tomorrow. She was a grandmother, although a young grandmother.
MS and cancer both.
| 3 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:34:37pm |
Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man, living in the sky who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever till the end of time… But he *loves you*.
-George Carlin
| 4 |
Single-handed sailor Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:41:27pm |
re: #2 EmmmieG
Which reminds me, I have a funeral tomorrow. She was a grandmother, although a young grandmother.
MS and cancer both.
My wife’s sister has MS and had colon cancer already. MS is cruel. Hers just marches on, never in remission.
| 5 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 28, 2011 10:50:28pm |
I am more fond of the notion of reincarnation: that if you have led a good life you go onto something better, if you have led a bad life, you get something worse.
But any sort of god who truly loves us would want us to improve and offer us the opportunity to do so, and not cast us into the lake of fire forever with no exit.
| 6 |
Single-handed sailor Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:06:56pm |
I just can’t quite believe in a micro-managing God. I can’t even postulate what happens to ‘us’ upon death.
| 7 |
freetoken Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:11:50pm |
re: #5 ralphieboy
Reincarnation has never struck me as a positive thing - to my mind there is an element of cruelty to it.
Oh, if one could take with them rudiments of memories and wisdom then maybe it might work to accumulate goodness. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.
And the problem of human population explosion kind of throws a monkey wrench into the idea, unless you go with something more Hindu and think being a gnat or tapeworm is possible in round n+1.
| 8 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:13:29pm |
Like I said, you go onto something better. The form you take is conjectural…
| 9 |
Irenicum Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:13:48pm |
Yeah, the god we want is the god we want. Yeah. So surprising.
| 10 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:14:24pm |
We invented him, why should we not shape him in our own image?
| 11 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:18:11pm |
I’m pulling for Valhalla personally.
| 12 |
Irenicum Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:18:44pm |
It is strange that we keep coming back to this question. Not sayin’ why. Just sayin’, We are weird critters.
| 13 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:20:19pm |
Life’s a bitch and then you die - and then you come back and do it again!
You’re right, it’s cruel.
| 14 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:24:32pm |
Just remember, if you do end up confronted with Satan, you do have the right to challenge him to a Rock Off.
| 16 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:27:42pm |
| 18 |
Lidane Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:44:56pm |
re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, thats Death, but go for Twister instead.
Upding for the Bill & Ted reference.
| 19 |
Lidane Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:48:06pm |
re: #17 austin_blue
As a happy Deist, this all irrelevant.
As a happy Atheist, I agree.
Although if there is a hell, I’d imagine it’s a karaoke dive bar filled with loud drunks slaughtering Johnny Cash songs. Oh, wait. That was last night. Never mind. ;)
| 20 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 28, 2011 11:50:26pm |
I like the old “Night Gallery” episode where the hippie winds up a room with nothing but old Lawrence Welk records and a boring old gentleman as a conversation partner.
The devil comes in to tell him that they have a room just like it in heaven, it’s all a matter of preference…
| 22 |
austin_blue Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:01:06am |
re: #19 Lidane
As a happy Atheist, I agree.
Although if there is a hell, I’d imagine it’s a karaoke dive bar filled with loud drunks slaughtering Johnny Cash songs. Oh, wait. That was last night. Never mind. ;)
Just toddled in from listening to Graham Reynolds’s new triple concerto, “The Difference Engine”. Outstanding! Gotta love this town. He’s at the Continental Club tomorrow night doing a CD release party of another album, “Duke”. Must See live music,
Again, the music scene here is fanfuckingtastic.
| 23 |
mdey Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:01:32am |
re: #19 Lidane
The Karaoke people have an excuse to be bad. They probably know the words though. I was at my cousin’s wedding a couple years ago, and there was a Johnny Cash cover band playing. I went up to the lead singer and requested Walk The Line and Ring of Fire. He told me that that they didn’t know either one of the songs.
| 24 |
Steve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:02:49am |
Joly was in the habit of rubbing his nose with the end of his cane, which is a sure sign of a sagacious mind.
Victor Hugo
| 25 |
austin_blue Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:08:14am |
And adios to all Lizards across the world. I’m for the rack.
Sweet dreams!
| 26 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:08:24am |
re: #20 ralphieboy
Couldn’t find it in this episode list:
[Link: www.nightgallery.net…]
Do you remember who was in it?
| 27 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:30:02am |
Just learned that Chris Cornell is going to be playing an acoustic show in my town this spring, got to see about getting tickets
| 28 |
mdey Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:35:31am |
re: #27 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Is it acoustic? I didn’t know. I got the flier about him playing the Filmore in San Francisco. I was thinking about getting a ticket, if he does mainly Soundgarden stuff.
| 30 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:39:26am |
re: #28 mdey
Is it acoustic? I didn’t know. I got the flier about him playing the Filmore in San Francisco. I was thinking about getting a ticket, if he does mainly Soundgarden stuff.
Local DJ said the show here was acoustic.
I don’t care what he plays if I get the chance to hear him sing live once.
| 32 |
tnguitarist Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:42:52am |
re: #30 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Local DJ said the show here was acoustic.
I don’t care what he plays if I get the chance to hear him sing live once.
I’ve seen him once solo and 4 times with Soundgarden.
| 33 |
Amory Blaine Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:44:52am |
One major problem IMO with the concept of a “higher plane” is the idea that people will get their proper judgment “in the end”. Justice should be sought today with the highest vigor rather than resigning to expect someone else to do it (god).
| 34 |
mdey Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:44:53am |
| 35 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:45:17am |
re: #32 tnguitarist
I’ve seen him once solo and 4 times with Soundgarden.
Never got a chance to see him in Soundgarden’s prime. I was either overseas or otherwise unable to get to a concert.
| 36 |
mdey Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:45:47am |
re: #30 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Agreed. No more songs with Justin Timberlake though.
| 37 |
tnguitarist Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:48:45am |
re: #35 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Never got a chance to see him in Soundgarden’s prime. I was either overseas or otherwise unable to get to a concert.
‘93 Lollapalooza was one of the best tickets of all time.
| 38 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:49:18am |
re: #33 Amory Blaine
One major problem IMO with the concept of a “higher plane” is the idea that people will get their proper judgment “in the end”. Justice should be sought today with the highest vigor rather than resigning to expect someone else to do it (god).
I have no problem with the idea of “divine justice” in a later life, but it does not supercede the need to achieve human justice on Earth.
And yes, it is too often used as a means of keeping the the lower strata of society in their place with promises of a better world beyond.
| 39 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jan 29, 2011 12:58:26am |
Bombshell:
Made in USA tear gas canisters not withstanding, it appears that the US itself, not some nefarious coalition of anti-American forces, is behind the uprising in Egypt.
Egypt protests: America’s secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising
Incidentally, I was a guest on local radio this afternoon to discuss this. We were in the very studio at KRFE, formerly KDAV, where Buddy Holly made his first broadcast appearance in 1955. The room is suitably decorated with photos, clippings, etc. and there is an official historical marker in the lobby.
| 40 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:08:25am |
re: #39 Shiplord Kirel
Bombshell:
Made in USA tear gas canisters not withstanding, it appears that the US itself, not some nefarious coalition of anti-American forces, is behind the uprising in Egypt.
Egypt protests: America’s secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprisingIncidentally, I was a guest on local radio this afternoon to discuss this. We were in the very studio at KRFE, formerly KDAV, where Buddy Holly made his first broadcast appearance in 1955. The room is suitably decorated with photos, clippings, etc. and there is an official historical marker in the lobby.
Beware of The Telegraph…
| 41 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:21:41am |
Chris Matthews keeps the hits coming: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]
Glad someone’s calling it for what it is, an entire political party gone crazy
| 42 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:23:15am |
re: #41 WindUpBird
Glad someone’s calling it for what it is, an entire political party gone crazy
There are exceptions here and there, but one has to look for them.
| 43 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:25:08am |
re: #5 ralphieboy
I am more fond of the notion of reincarnation: that if you have led a good life you go onto something better, if you have led a bad life, you get something worse.
But any sort of god who truly loves us would want us to improve and offer us the opportunity to do so, and not cast us into the lake of fire forever with no exit.
Reincarnation doesn’t really make sense - how would a reincarnated you know that it’s still you?
| 44 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:25:48am |
re: #43 Sergey Romanov
Reincarnation doesn’t really make sense - how would a reincarnated you know that it’s still you?
Well, you got to pay a psychic to figure that out, duh.
| 46 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:36:16am |
| 47 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 1:55:08am |
Protesters back on Egypt streets
Protesters are returning to the streets of Egypt, following violent overnight demonstrations across the country staged in defiance of a curfew.
Demonstrators gathered in Tahrir Square in the Egyptian capital, Cairo, on Saturday morning, shouting “Go away, go away!”, the Reuters news agency said.
Similar crowds were gathering in the cities of Alexandria and Suez, Al Jazeera’s correspondents reported.
In Alexandria, our correspondent Rawya Rageh reported that dozens of marchers were calling on Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak to step down.
“They are calling for regime change, not cabinet change,” Rageh said.
In Suez, Al Jazeera’s Jamal ElShayyal reported that protesters were gathering, and that the military was not confronting them.
ElShayyal quoted a military officer as saying that troops would “not fire a single bullet on Egyptians”, regardless of where the orders to do so come from.
| 48 |
mdey Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:05:18am |
re: #41 WindUpBird
Chris Matthews has been on a roll this week, speaking out against both of the balloon heads, Palin and Bachmann. The wingnut blogs pretty much haven’t been defending them. Some idiot named Dan Riehl has been defending Bachmann all week, and all the “not so” Breitbart blogs are recently jumping on the defend the morons bandwagon.
| 49 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:14:16am |
Reposting this because I love it despite its cheeziness:
| 50 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:44:53am |
re: #43 Sergey Romanov
Reincarnation doesn’t really make sense - how would a reincarnated you know that it’s still you?
This is all metaphysical speculation, and being this sort of speculation, it is not subject to reason or logic. Which makes it fun for parlor games and a source of creative inpiration but pretty damn useless for solving our everyday problems.
| 51 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:50:04am |
Religion is religion is religion is all rock ‘n roll to me.
And speaking of heaven and hell… Jorge Luis Borges has nothing on Ronnie James Dio.
| 52 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:50:49am |
| 53 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:03:34am |
re: #50 ralphieboy
This is all metaphysical speculation, and being this sort of speculation, it is not subject to reason or logic. Which makes it fun for parlor games and a source of creative inpiration but pretty damn useless for solving our everyday problems.
Metaphysical speculation absolutely is subject to reason and logic since metaphysics is a branch of philosophy. Reincarnation doesn’t make philosophical sense since a “reincarnated” person is still a new person. It becomes a “mechanical” process of a “soul” traveling from body to body with no one benefiting from the process since each new person cannot identify themselves with previous incarnations in any meaningful ways.
| 54 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:10:28am |
re: #53 Sergey Romanov
Heh. Sometimes I like to scare myself with the whole “How can I prove I”m the same person I was when I went to sleep?” problem.
Even worse since I’ve been knocked deeply unconscious on more than a few occasions.
| 55 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:12:32am |
re: #54 Obdicut
Heh. Sometimes I like to scare myself with the whole “How can I prove I”m the same person I was when I went to sleep?” problem.
Even worse since I’ve been knocked deeply unconscious on more than a few occasions.
ack *_*
| 56 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:13:48am |
re: #54 Obdicut
Heh. Sometimes I like to scare myself with the whole “How can I prove I”m the same person I was when I went to sleep?” problem.
Even worse since I’ve been knocked deeply unconscious on more than a few occasions.
| 57 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:15:12am |
re: #56 laZardo
Better yet, who is “you”? Maybe a Euronesian girl in the year 3745 undergoing a “deep sleep” therapy?
| 58 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:15:45am |
re: #57 Sergey Romanov
Better yet, who is “you”? Maybe a Euronesian girl in the year 3745 undergoing a “deep sleep” therapy?
You should play Assassin’s Creed if you haven’t yet
| 59 |
mdey Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:16:25am |
re: #51 laZardo
Lady Evil is my favorite Dio era Sabbath song. Makes me think of Palin and Bachmann.
| 60 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:17:59am |
re: #58 WindUpBird
You should play Assassin’s Creed if you haven’t yet
I’ve seen it, I’m not into this type of games. Gimme adventure or RPG. Action, stealth, blah? Naah.
| 61 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:22:46am |
Uh oh, investigators have just informed that they have cracked the Domodedovo case. No details yet.
| 62 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:22:51am |
re: #60 Sergey Romanov
What about Dwarf Fortress?
| 63 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:24:04am |
| 64 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:29:20am |
Sandmonkey tweeting again. Good. Was worried.
| 66 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:33:15am |
| 67 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:43:28am |
A great site that remakes classic Sierra games and releases them for free:
[Link: www.agdinteractive.com…]
| 68 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:50:55am |
Things are moving FAST in Egypt once again!
| 69 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:52:18am |
| 70 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:53:50am |
Page grab of army tank in Cairo with “Down with Mubarak” [Link: yfrog.com…]
| 71 |
Zanobia Sat, Jan 29, 2011 3:58:44am |
This is RNN news, the Egyptian Facebook page that started it all, they have a page in English now.
[Link: www.facebook.com…]
| 73 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 4:28:45am |
Dead protesters in Morgue:
[Link: twitter.com…]
Overall Egyptian body count of at least several dozens so far…
At least the Army shows restraint.
| 74 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 5:33:35am |
Outbreak of reports on prison riots, murders of inmates by police.
Civilians on the street spontanously organizing to supply basic police services.
| 75 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 5:35:20am |
| 76 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 5:37:28am |
| 77 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 5:38:32am |
| 78 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 5:52:29am |
Good morning to all.
Had my first cup of coffee and stepped out onto the back deck. All is dark and quiet, a soft breeze is blowing up the hillside off the lake. The branches of the tall evergreens are stirring.
A far cry from the turmoil in Egypt and other lands in the Middle East.
| 79 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:00:46am |
| 80 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:02:33am |
It’s curfew time in Egypt….
for whom will the bell toll…
| 81 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:10:29am |
Russians say the relatively obvious:
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]
The bomber was a young man from the North Caucuses. They’re not releasing his name, nor anything more specific, while they investigate.
| 82 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:12:56am |
re: #81 Obdicut
Russians say the relatively obvious:
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]
The bomber was a young man from the North Caucuses. They’re not releasing his name, nor anything more specific, while they investigate.
Not so obvious as it turned out in the days after the bombing. First, yes, a Caucasian. Then someone of Arabic appearance. Then possibly a European or perhaps a Chechen woman. Then Russian terrorist Razdobud’ko. Now we’re back to a Caucasian.
| 83 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:13:52am |
re: #82 Sergey Romanov
And BTW, there is a good quality photo of the apparent terrorist’s torn head, but I’ll be damned if I understand his ethnicity.
| 84 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:13:59am |
This is pretty cool: [Link: manalaa.net…]
| 85 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:14:56am |
re: #82 Sergey Romanov
And someone ‘from the North Caucuses” could still be someone of Arabic appearance. It’s weird that they’d bother to release this tiny amount of info without anything more. What’s the use of disclosing his age without his name?
Kind of makes me think they either still don’t really know who he was or… something. I dunno.
| 86 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:16:46am |
re: #85 Obdicut
Well, yeah, lots of Caucasians are “ME looking”, it was just weird that the descriptor was used in Russian context.
| 87 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:18:37am |
| 88 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:24:44am |
Using my daughters laptop. Are there little hearts over the “i”s and stuff? Little circles for periods? When I type “that was very funny” does it show up in your world as “LOL”?
| 89 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:25:15am |
re: #88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Good. I guess not.
| 90 |
Romantic Heretic Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:25:46am |
re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Just remember, if you do end up confronted with Satan, you do have the right to challenge him to a Rock Off.
[Video]
Or you could try a little head cutting.
| 91 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:26:56am |
re: #89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
why is all your text pink and sparkly?
| 92 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:27:14am |
re: #88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Using my daughters laptop. Are there little hearts over the “i”s and stuff? Little circles for periods? When I type “that was very funny” does it show up in your world as “LOL”?
No
But like your underwear it’s all pink!!
((btw,, could you please e-mail me,, I have a question for you)
| 93 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:27:23am |
re: #89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Good. I guess not.
There is, you just don’t see it. Also your comments have pink background.
| 94 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:27:42am |
| 95 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:28:15am |
re: #94 sattv4u2
LOL.
| 96 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:28:46am |
re: #90 Romantic Heretic
Or you could try a little head cutting.
[Video]
The greatest guitar duel of all time!
| 97 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:29:10am |
Iranian grandstanding: Iranian leaders hope for Islamic republic in Egypt – Clerics say protests against Mubarak government were inspired by 1979 revolution in Iran
Qatari grandstanding (remember, Al-Jazeera is based in Qatar): Influential Egyptian scholar (banished from Egypt decades ago) Al Qaradawi on Al Jazeera now “The only solution is for Mubarak to leave”
Saudi grandstanding: Saudi King Abdullah called Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and “was reassured” about the situation in Egypt, the state-run Saudi Press Agency reported.
| 98 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:33:16am |
re: #97 000G
It’s really interesting to see the various spins everyone is putting on top of stuff.
There’s anti-Obama spin, anti-secular spin, anti-Israel spin, etc. etc.
What’s impressing the hell out of me is the pictures and stories of Egyptians spontaneously organizing local services like rubbish disposal and traffic control, in the absence of the police.
| 99 |
Romantic Heretic Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:34:08am |
re: #33 Amory Blaine
One major problem IMO with the concept of a “higher plane” is the idea that people will get their proper judgment “in the end”. Justice should be sought today with the highest vigor rather than resigning to expect someone else to do it (god).
This. The next life, if there is one, is of no interest to me. What we do now and here is.
| 100 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:34:18am |
re: #98 Obdicut
And I’ve just read about the defense of the Cairo Museum.
| 101 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:34:23am |
re: #87 000G
Hm…
I’ve been reading more of this as a motivator being expressed by some of those protesting.
Hmm indeed.
| 102 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:36:11am |
[Link: www.zawya.com…]
CAIRO, Jan 29, 2011 (AFP) - Young Egyptians on Saturday formed a human chain to protect the Cairo museum which houses priceless antiquities, as efforts got under way around the riot-hit capital to organise neighbourhood watch committees.
| 103 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:36:40am |
Lots of reports of lootings, arson of property, break-ins. All protestors I have seen commenting on this deny link to them, accuse “government goons” to be behind it, creating terror in the street so people will ask for Mubarak to restore safety again.
| 104 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:37:12am |
The pictures being run by the Egyptian State TV reinforce the idea that their country is secular.
Let us hope that over the course of events and it’s aftermath that this remains true.
| 105 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:39:26am |
re: #96 HoosierHoops
Hoops
Please re-double the Lizard Prayer for my mom.
Just got a call she was taken into ICU with internal bleeding. I’m heading home (at work now) and taking the next flight I can get out. It doesn’t look good and I just want her to hang in till I get there
| 106 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:40:34am |
re: #103 000G
Lots of reports of lootings, arson of property, break-ins. All protestors I have seen commenting on this deny link to them, accuse “government goons” to be behind it, creating terror in the street so people will ask for Mubarak to restore safety again.
Like us, they probably have their version of the Black Bloc—ninja anarchist wannabees that try to turn peaceful protests into bloodbaths.
| 107 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:41:44am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
Hoops
Please re-double the Lizard Prayer for my mom.
Just got a call she was taken into ICU with internal bleeding. I’m heading home (at work now) and taking the next flight I can get out. It doesn’t look good and I just want her to hang in till I get there
{{satt}}
| 108 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:42:12am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
((sattv))
| 109 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:42:16am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
Hoops
Please re-double the Lizard Prayer for my mom.
Just got a call she was taken into ICU with internal bleeding. I’m heading home (at work now) and taking the next flight I can get out. It doesn’t look good and I just want her to hang in till I get there
Very sorry—try to get someone to do the driving.
| 110 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:42:38am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
Hoops
Please re-double the Lizard Prayer for my mom.
Just got a call she was taken into ICU with internal bleeding. I’m heading home (at work now) and taking the next flight I can get out. It doesn’t look good and I just want her to hang in till I get there
{{{speed}}}
| 111 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:42:54am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
Hoops
Please re-double the Lizard Prayer for my mom.
Just got a call she was taken into ICU with internal bleeding. I’m heading home (at work now) and taking the next flight I can get out. It doesn’t look good and I just want her to hang in till I get there
Aw Satt - I’m so sorry. Prayers to your family.
| 112 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:43:03am |
re: #106 Decatur Deb
Like us, they probably have their version of the Black Bloc—ninja anarchist wannabees that try to turn peaceful protests into bloodbaths.
I also read stuff like this:
Suez : The regime has released all thugs & prisoners free to burn&steal our city to punish us for rebelling against his unfair system #Jan25
| 114 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:45:53am |
“1444 Looters are reportedly on the rampage in a number of upper-class neighborhoods in Cairo. Residents are calling the offices of media organisations asking for help, amid what appears to be a security vacuum. Some have formed committees in an effort to protect their homes and buildings.”
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk…]
| 116 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:46:32am |
| 118 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:47:19am |
re: #113 sattv4u2
Thanks all
means a lot to me!
best wishes for your mom..I know it’s hard right now for her and your family..
May the Lord grant her strength and grace and you peace
| 120 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:48:22am |
A gazillion protesters in the streets of Cairo: police and army standing by…
[Link: english.aljazeera.net…]
| 121 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:49:02am |
Here is a dkos thread where a Palestinian member translates news from Arabic. Quite possibly slanted, still - another source.
[Link: www.dailykos.com…]
| 122 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:49:45am |
re: #121 Sergey Romanov
(4+ / 0-)
عائدون يا اقصى
we are returning oh aqsa
[the mosque in occupied palestine]
| 124 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:50:10am |
re: #120 ryannon
A gazillion protesters in the streets of Cairo: police and army standing by…
[Link: english.aljazeera.net…]
Get Rep Bachmann to count the crowd.
| 125 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:50:11am |
NY Times interactive map of protests in Cairo: [Link: www.nytimes.com…]
| 127 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:51:14am |
re: #122 Sergey Romanov
Sorry, c/p fail: that’s what some demonstrators are chanting.
| 130 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:52:22am |
re: #125 000G
NY Times interactive map of protests in Cairo: [Link: www.nytimes.com…]
Cool. Bookmarked, Thanks.
| 132 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:53:05am |
| 133 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:53:18am |
I’d love to remain optimistic about the outcome of this, but I can’t help but think it’s going to end poorly. The popular overthrow of a U.S. supported dictator in the Middle East usually hasn’t turned out too well.
| 134 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:53:47am |
re: #132 Sergey Romanov
It’s a blockquote from that page.
Ya, I gotcha’!
Knee-jerk reaction on my part…
| 135 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:53:56am |
re: #129 drcordell
Really?
yeah, bizarre concept eh?….only a moron still falls for that occupation shit
| 136 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:54:21am |
Oh my.
After a long time away - the Dr. is in the house….
| 137 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:54:47am |
| 139 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:55:20am |
re: #135 albusteve
It all boils down to semantics. Whether or not you want to call a military presence an “occupation” is up to you. But that’s not the point right now, let’s talk about Egypt.
| 140 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:55:30am |
re: #133 drcordell
I’d love to remain optimistic about the outcome of this, but I can’t help but think it’s going to end poorly. The popular overthrow of a U.S. supported dictator in the Middle East usually hasn’t turned out too well.
I see you have 999 karma. Here’s 1000.
| 141 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:56:16am |
| 142 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:56:25am |
re: #120 ryannon
A gazillion protesters in the streets of Cairo: police and army standing by…
[Link: english.aljazeera.net…]
Somebody is being questioned by the reporters now, as to what the plan is if Mubarek leaves. Does anybody have one? (or probably, several someones have a plan they’re hoping for).
Good question, I wish there seemed to be an answer.
| 144 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:57:17am |
re: #142 reine.de.tout
Somebody is being questioned by the reporters now, as to what the plan is if Mubarek leaves. Does anybody have one? (or probably, several someones have a plan they’re hoping for).
Good question, I wish there seemed to be an answer.
See #137 :-)
| 145 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:57:33am |
re: #142 reine.de.tout
Somebody is being questioned by the reporters now, as to what the plan is if Mubarek leaves. Does anybody have one? (or probably, several someones have a plan they’re hoping for).
Good question, I wish there seemed to be an answer.
I’ve got a bag packed and am ready to assume leadership as soon as called upon.
| 146 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:58:28am |
| 147 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:58:45am |
re: #145 ryannon
I’ve got a bag packed and am ready to assume leadership as soon as called upon.
Ah.
You’re one of those several someones, eh?
| 148 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:58:52am |
re: #139 drcordell
It all boils down to semantics. Whether or not you want to call a military presence an “occupation” is up to you. But that’s not the point right now, let’s talk about Egypt.
FREE PALESTINE!
buy ONE, get one FREE!
| 149 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:58:54am |
the country is not being run by a dozen men we can survive overthrowing them #Jan25
Of course that kinda begs the question why Mubarak needed to be overthrown to begin with…
| 150 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:59:19am |
re: #148 albusteve
FREE MUMIA, ALSO!
| 151 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:59:40am |
Protesters kissing the soldiers (it’s turning into a Gay Pride Parade!) and tooling around on top of troop carriers and armored vehicles….
| 153 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 6:59:57am |
| 154 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:01:32am |
re: #153 albusteve
FREE ALBUQUERQUE!
I am SO occupied
Yes, all those military checkpoints between Taos and Albuquerque must really be grating on your nerves. Having your papers in order to get to work is really an undue burden on you.
| 155 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:01:46am |
State TV is running video from around Cairo. Lot’s of embracing by protesters and Soldiers…
| 157 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:01:48am |
re: #147 reine.de.tout
Ah.
You’re one of those several someones, eh?
One of my first acts will be to introduce Taco Bells to Egypt!
| 158 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:02:51am |
| 159 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:02:51am |
re: #154 drcordell
Yes, all those military checkpoints between Taos and Albuquerque must really be grating on your nerves. Having your papers in order to get to work is really an undue burden on you.
Not to mention the weight of those dynamite vests.
| 161 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:05:01am |
re: #151 ryannon
Protesters kissing the soldiers (it’s turning into a Gay Pride Parade!) and tooling around on top of troop carriers and armored vehicles…
“What’s the use of a revolution without general copulation?”
—Marat/Sade
| 163 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:05:51am |
re: #159 ryannon
Not to mention the weight of those dynamite vests.
You’re talking about justifying the occupation and checkpoints, not whether or not they exist. I take that to mean you agree with me then?
| 164 |
Buck Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:06:08am |
Egypt getting all of the press attention, but really four countries in reform. Tunis, Egypt, Yemen and Albania. Many more dominos to fall.
If this was Muslim Brotherhood inspired I think we would see anti american and anti israel signs in english. I also think we would also be seeing pictures on signs of some Iman leader being touted as a replacement for Mubarek.
| 165 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:07:10am |
re: #154 drcordell
Yes, all those military checkpoints between Taos and Albuquerque must really be grating on your nerves. Having your papers in order to get to work is really an undue burden on you.
next you’re going to convince me that Pali leaders are just a rowdy bunch of fun loving peaceniks?
| 166 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:07:19am |
re: #163 drcordell
You’re talking about justifying the occupation and checkpoints, not whether or not they exist. I take that to mean you agree with me then?
I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
At the moment, I’m much more interested in what’s going on in Cairo.
| 167 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:07:20am |
Most of the armor deployed on the streets are of American manufacture - APC’s and M-60 MBT’s.
| 168 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:08:35am |
re: #164 Buck
Egypt getting all of the press attention, but really four countries in reform. Tunis, Egypt, Yemen and Albania. Many more dominos to fall.
If this was Muslim Brotherhood inspired I think we would see anti american and anti israel signs in english. I also think we would also be seeing pictures on signs of some Iman leader being touted as a replacement for Mubarek.
El Che!
| 169 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:09:06am |
re: #149 000G
Of course that kinda begs the question why Mubarak needed to be overthrown to begin with…
I think Mu is the only one asking that question
| 170 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:09:25am |
| 171 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:10:47am |
re: #167 Ericus58
Well, we are the world’s arms dealer. It’s part of the problem of using arms deals to seal diplomatic deals. Then those people have the arms, which are identifiably American.
| 172 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:11:05am |
re: #167 Ericus58
Most of the armor deployed on the streets are of American manufacture - APC’s and M-60 MBT’s.
Thus many of their commanders have done time at Knox.
| 173 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:11:25am |
Meanwhile…
[Link: www.newscorpse.com…]
| 174 |
Buck Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:12:08am |
re: #172 Decatur Deb
Thus many of their commanders have done time at Knox.
Which might mean the military thinks twice about breaking from the US.
| 175 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:12:15am |
re: #171 Obdicut
Well, we are the world’s arms dealer. It’s part of the problem of using arms deals to seal diplomatic deals. Then those people have the arms, which are identifiably American.
the arms dealer?…like the only one?….I don’t think so
| 176 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:12:26am |
re: #171 Obdicut
Well, we are the world’s arms dealer. It’s part of the problem of using arms deals to seal diplomatic deals. Then those people have the arms, which are identifiably American.
| 177 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:12:31am |
Al Jazeera is reporting that members of Mubarak’s party have started defecting. Over 100 killed in protests as reported so far. Live coverage of swarms of people out in the streets.
[Link: english.aljazeera.net…]
| 178 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:12:47am |
re: #175 albusteve
the arms dealer?…like the only one?…I don’t think so
Nope. But we are the biggest one.
| 179 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:14:23am |
re: #177 BryanS
Al Jazeera is reporting that members of Mubarak’s party have started defecting. Over 100 killed in protests as reported so far. Live coverage of swarms of people out in the streets.
[Link: english.aljazeera.net…]
the ship is sinking!
the ship is sinking!
| 180 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:16:00am |
re: #175 albusteve
the arms dealer?…like the only one?…I don’t think so
Of course not. But we are the #1 by an epic proportion. 41% of the world arms trade, with Russia in second place at 10.6%
[Link: www.caat.org.uk…]
| 181 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:16:09am |
Albania?re: #164 Buck
Egypt getting all of the press attention, but really four countries in reform. Tunis, Egypt, Yemen and Albania. Many more dominos to fall.
If this was Muslim Brotherhood inspired I think we would see anti american and anti israel signs in english. I also think we would also be seeing pictures on signs of some Iman leader being touted as a replacement for Mubarek.
Hadn’t thought about Albania, yet. Any actual connections?
| 182 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:17:18am |
This is particularly rich. The Telegraph is peddling claims that the US has been secretly planning and is backing the uprising against Mubarak. Oh, and it started during the Bush Administration and continued under Obama.
Drudge is red lettering that as his top headline.
This plays right into the wheelhouse of a conspiracy-minded and laden Middle Eastern media - who would fixate on the headline. Of course, it’s misinterpreting the Wikileaks documents that show US officials concerned about political dissidents and the need for Mubarak to release political prisoners to claim that this was part of a secret plot.
It would be far easier to blame this on the US, rather than the fact that the Egyptian government has a failed socio-economic policy - and it’s one that has been going on for decades. Indeed, the US was pushing for improved human rights conditions in Egypt all while working within the existing framework of the Egyptian government under Mubarak.
| 183 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:17:19am |
re: #180 drcordell
Of course not. But we are the #1 by an epic proportion. 41% of the world arms trade, with Russia in second place at 10.6%
[Link: www.caat.org.uk…]
You think this uprising in Egypt will have any effect on the situation between the Palestinians and Israel?
| 184 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:17:25am |
re: #171 Obdicut
Well, we are the world’s arms dealer. It’s part of the problem of using arms deals to seal diplomatic deals. Then those people have the arms, which are identifiably American.
So, what’s the alternative?
Don’t deal with governments of other nations?
It’s a serious question, Obdi, I’m not trying to be an ass. What would the alternative be, if a government wants arms?
| 185 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:17:52am |
re: #178 Obdicut
Nope. But we are the biggest one.
maybe….OTOH there are multi billionaire private dealers both criminal and legit, and even as states go, the old Soviet block cannot be trusted to reveal, honestly, what they export, since so many arms violate treaties etc and billions worth go to terrorist orgs…at least the US tries to maintain some integrity about it
| 187 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:19:24am |
re: #180 drcordell
Only because AKs and their ammo are cheap as chips compared to M-4s.
| 188 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:19:38am |
re: #180 drcordell
Of course not. But we are the #1 by an epic proportion. 41% of the world arms trade, with Russia in second place at 10.6%
[Link: www.caat.org.uk…]
and I say, nobody knows for sure who’s selling what to who…legal and otherwise
| 189 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:19:41am |
re: #182 lawhawk
This is particularly rich. The Telegraph is peddling claims that the US has been secretly planning and is backing the uprising against Mubarak. Oh, and it started during the Bush Administration and continued under Obama.
Drudge is red lettering that as his top headline.
This plays right into the wheelhouse of a conspiracy-minded and laden Middle Eastern media - who would fixate on the headline. Of course, it’s misinterpreting the Wikileaks documents that show US officials concerned about political dissidents and the need for Mubarak to release political prisoners to claim that this was part of a secret plot.
It would be far easier to blame this on the US, rather than the fact that the Egyptian government has a failed socio-economic policy - and it’s one that has been going on for decades. Indeed, the US was pushing for improved human rights conditions in Egypt all while working within the existing framework of the Egyptian government under Mubarak.
This is exactly why I warned against The Telegraph when I saw the sensational headline. They are known to give stories these kinds of spin, “conservative” sensationalism.
| 190 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:20:12am |
re: #185 albusteve
maybe…OTOH there are multi billionaire private dealers both criminal and legit, and even as states go, the old Soviet block cannot be trusted to reveal, honestly, what they export, since so many arms violate treaties etc and billions worth go to terrorist orgs…at least the US tries to maintain some integrity about it
Keep backpedaling and hedging. You know we are the #1 arms dealer in the world.
| 191 |
Buck Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:20:27am |
re: #181 000G
Albania?
Hadn’t thought about Albania, yet. Any actual connections?
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
Again, for the most part, press is obsessed with Egypt right now.
The dominos are falling.
| 192 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:20:59am |
re: #186 drcordell
Doubtful.
Good. Last things Israel needs is increased pressure coming from Gaza right now.
| 193 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:21:16am |
re: #187 laZardo
Only because AKs and their ammo are cheap as chips compared to M-4s.
Puhlease. You think it’s small arms that make us #1? It’s tanks, jet planes, APCs, smart bombs, attack helicopters, radar technology… the list goes on. If you think it’s a crate of assault rifles that put us at the top of the list you’re deluding yourself.
| 194 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:21:20am |
re: #191 Buck
It’s a pretty GIGANTIC story.
As long as they don’t pre-empt it with Paris Hilton news.
| 195 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:21:33am |
re: #182 lawhawk
This is particularly rich. The Telegraph is peddling claims that the US has been secretly planning and is backing the uprising against Mubarak. Oh, and it started during the Bush Administration and continued under Obama.
Drudge is red lettering that as his top headline.
This plays right into the wheelhouse of a conspiracy-minded and laden Middle Eastern media - who would fixate on the headline. Of course, it’s misinterpreting the Wikileaks documents that show US officials concerned about political dissidents and the need for Mubarak to release political prisoners to claim that this was part of a secret plot.
It would be far easier to blame this on the US, rather than the fact that the Egyptian government has a failed socio-economic policy - and it’s one that has been going on for decades. Indeed, the US was pushing for improved human rights conditions in Egypt all while working within the existing framework of the Egyptian government under Mubarak.
If State Department has done it correctly, there will plenty of evidence that we have always backed the winning side—no matter who that is. I can dream.
| 196 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:21:43am |
Egypt’s former chief of intelligence sworn in as vice-president by Mubarak
EPIC FAIL
| 197 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:21:43am |
re: #189 000G
This is exactly why I warned against The Telegraph when I saw the sensational headline. They are known to give stories these kinds of spin, “conservative” sensationalism.
that’s common knowledge
| 198 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:22:22am |
re: #196 ryannon
Egypt’s former chief of intelligence sworn in as vice-president by Mubarak
EPIC FAIL
I betcha he didn’t see that coming.
| 199 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:22:41am |
re: #190 drcordell
Keep backpedaling and hedging. You know we are the #1 arms dealer in the world.
I’m nuancing…it’s a fine art
| 200 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:22:55am |
re: #183 Walter L. Newton
The Palestinian Authority has been blocking protests in support of Tunisian uprising. The PA sees the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia in the same light that Mubarak does to his regime. It’s a mortal threat to their continued power, and they’re going to do whatever it takes to stay in power.
The Palestinian people have plenty of reasons to have grievances against the PA - Fatah and Hamas for decades of corrupt and bad rule and bad decision making. The grievances are along the same lines as those elsewhere in the Middle East - lack of economic opportunities, lack of human rights, etc.
| 201 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:23:02am |
re: #191 Buck
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
Again, for the most part, press is obsessed with Egypt right now.
The dominos are falling.
I asked for any actual connections. The NY Times do not mention any. I don’t think that Albania is standing in any domino line with Egypt, Tunis, Jordan, Lebanon, or Yemen.
Reminds me of Alex Jones equating the protests in Egypt with the student riots in Europe. Completely seperate things. Similar from just the looks, but otherwise pretty much unrelated.
| 202 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:23:06am |
re: #196 ryannon
Egypt’s former chief of intelligence sworn in as vice-president by Mubarak
EPIC FAIL
in so much as his staying in power, yes.
The end is nigh…
| 203 |
Buck Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:23:30am |
re: #192 Walter L. Newton
Good. Last things Israel needs is increased pressure coming from Gaza right now.
If these protests are about freedom, and I believe they are, then the increased pressure will be on Hamas.
| 204 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:23:42am |
re: #182 lawhawk
I mentioned it last night. Got a big “no response at all”. Which I assumed to mean “crickets” rather than “de nile” (get it?!)
Still the BIG RED BANNER HEADLINE on Drudge.
| 205 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:23:42am |
re: #193 drcordell
Puhlease. You think it’s small arms that make us #1? It’s tanks, jet planes, APCs, smart bombs, attack helicopters, radar technology… the list goes on. If you think it’s a crate of assault rifles that put us at the top of the list you’re deluding yourself.
Yeah, you can call me delusional.
But when it comes to what’s doing the most killing these days, it’s not the jet fighters, smart bombs or sophisticated radar technology. It’s the grunt with an AK, or M4, or whatever he has to shoot someone with.
| 206 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:24:15am |
re: #197 albusteve
that’s common knowledge
You’d be surprised as to how uncommon common knowledge actually is.
| 207 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:24:30am |
re: #196 ryannon
Egypt’s former chief of intelligence sworn in as vice-president by Mubarak
EPIC FAIL
probably was the guy behind the net shut down
| 208 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:24:48am |
re: #200 lawhawk
The Palestinian Authority has been blocking protests in support of Tunisian uprising. The PA sees the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia in the same light that Mubarak does to his regime. It’s a mortal threat to their continued power, and they’re going to do whatever it takes to stay in power.
The Palestinian people have plenty of reasons to have grievances against the PA - Fatah and Hamas for decades of corrupt and bad rule and bad decision making. The grievances are along the same lines as those elsewhere in the Middle East - lack of economic opportunities, lack of human rights, etc.
But it’s all Israel’s fault.
/As it were.
| 209 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:25:44am |
re: #184 reine.de.tout
So, what’s the alternative?
Don’t deal with governments of other nations?
It’s a serious question, Obdi, I’m not trying to be an ass. What would the alternative be, if a government wants arms?
It’s a little more complicated than that. We use arms deals, sales of military technology, as part of the way that we coerce/convince/whatever other countries to do what we want. A large part of the reason that Saudi Arabia, an incredibly repressive regime, are our ‘allies’ is so that they can have access to our military technology. In addition, we often package the deals together, so that to buy the military technology they really want, they have to buy some other military tech that they don’t even necessarily want, but that we want to sell.
In the end, yes, the alternative to the US being the world’s arms dealer is the US not being the world’s arms dealer, and people who want weapons and technology buying them from other sources. I don’t think that would be a bad thing. Arms and weapons aren’t a, I don’t know how to put it, a real good; they don’t do anything. There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war. The only people who profit from the sales of arms are the manufacturers of arms. I really do wish that we focused more on making constructive goods rather than arms to sell abroad.
| 210 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:25:48am |
re: #200 lawhawk
The Palestinian Authority has been blocking protests in support of Tunisian uprising. The PA sees the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia in the same light that Mubarak does to his regime. It’s a mortal threat to their continued power, and they’re going to do whatever it takes to stay in power.
The Palestinian people have plenty of reasons to have grievances against the PA - Fatah and Hamas for decades of corrupt and bad rule and bad decision making. The grievances are along the same lines as those elsewhere in the Middle East - lack of economic opportunities, lack of human rights, etc.
I’m not talking about the people pushing against the PA… I’m talking about them getting a good bug up their butt to resume pushing against Israel.
| 211 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:26:12am |
The thing to monitor with Israel and Egypt, apart from general peace, is the border to Gaza.
| 212 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:26:30am |
| 213 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:27:07am |
re: #196 ryannon
Egypt’s former chief of intelligence sworn in as vice-president by Mubarak
EPIC FAIL
Speculation is this is a first step to pave the way for Mubarak to leave. There hasn’t been a vice president in close to 30 years—who only really has the job of becoming president should the president leave office.
This will keep the protests going till Mubarak leaves.
| 214 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:27:23am |
re: #209 Obdicut
There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war.
What about hunting?
:p
| 215 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:27:28am |
re: #193 drcordell
Do you want the US to not sell arms, just allow the guys who make them sell them?
I run with the (albiet dangerous) assumption that we won’t sell a gun to a guy who will point it right back at us today (today, being the operative word).
| 216 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:28:41am |
re: #206 000G
You’d be surprised as to how uncommon common knowledge actually is.
Before the common era, common knowledge was very uncommon. But in the common era, common knowledge is very common. Why do you think scholars designate times periods before and after Christ as Before Common Era and Common Era?
| 217 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:28:46am |
re: #209 Obdicut
So, if a guy can build a nuke and sell it to North Korea, we should say okay?
| 218 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:28:47am |
re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I run with the (albiet dangerous) assumption that we won’t sell a gun to a guy who will point it right back at us today (today, being the operative word).
Sadly untrue.
| 219 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:29:04am |
Going to bed, and there will be theocracy in the morning.
Nighty.
| 220 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:29:15am |
re: #209 Obdicut
It’s a little more complicated than that. We use arms deals, sales of military technology, as part of the way that we coerce/convince/whatever other countries to do what we want. A large part of the reason that Saudi Arabia, an incredibly repressive regime, are our ‘allies’ is so that they can have access to our military technology. In addition, we often package the deals together, so that to buy the military technology they really want, they have to buy some other military tech that they don’t even necessarily want, but that we want to sell.
In the end, yes, the alternative to the US being the world’s arms dealer is the US not being the world’s arms dealer, and people who want weapons and technology buying them from other sources. I don’t think that would be a bad thing. Arms and weapons aren’t a, I don’t know how to put it, a real good; they don’t do anything. There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war. The only people who profit from the sales of arms are the manufacturers of arms. I really do wish that we focused more on making constructive goods rather than arms to sell abroad.
what?….I can’t believe you said that….there is an entire hierarchy of people making money selling arms
| 221 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:29:19am |
re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So, if a guy can build a nuke and sell it to North Korea, we should say okay?
Where did you get that from what I wrote?
| 222 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:30:35am |
re: #209 Obdicut
Most countries who buy US weapons use them to control people within their own borders - not to prevent other countries from overtaking them. Sure, jets and missiles can be good international deterrents, but small arms, helicopters, Bradley vehicles…those are all about controlling one’s own people.
| 223 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:31:05am |
| 224 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:31:22am |
re: #209 Obdicut
It’s a little more complicated than that. We use arms deals, sales of military technology, as part of the way that we coerce/convince/whatever other countries to do what we want. A large part of the reason that Saudi Arabia, an incredibly repressive regime, are our ‘allies’ is so that they can have access to our military technology. In addition, we often package the deals together, so that to buy the military technology they really want, they have to buy some other military tech that they don’t even necessarily want, but that we want to sell.
In the end, yes, the alternative to the US being the world’s arms dealer is the US not being the world’s arms dealer, and people who want weapons and technology buying them from other sources. I don’t think that would be a bad thing. Arms and weapons aren’t a, I don’t know how to put it, a real good; they don’t do anything. There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war. The only people who profit from the sales of arms are the manufacturers of arms. I really do wish that we focused more on making constructive goods rather than arms to sell abroad.
And there is another complication, that is - the arms sales are what the other governments want. How to deal with them constructively without giving them what they want? In other words, it isn’t just the US gov’t saying - play ball with us and we’ll sell you weapons. It’s other countries coming and saying - we want your weapons, and in return, we’ll do a, b or c. There’s a two-way thing going on. And not taking the wants another nation has expressed into consideration would be - arrogant?
| 225 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:31:32am |
re: #210 Walter L. Newton
You can’t really separate the two. The PA is going to come under increasing pressure from all sides - both to deal with Israel and to deal with all the grievances that the Palestinians have against the PA (Fatah and Hamas).
| 226 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:31:39am |
re: #214 000G
What about hunting?
:p
I tried using an RPG on quail once…not so effective, and bloody hard to find the bird after shooting.
| 227 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:32:43am |
re: #221 Obdicut
I’m just thinking that it is a way of controlling who gets what is sold and to whom.
| 228 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:33:15am |
re: #226 darthstar
I tried using an RPG on quail once…not so effective, and bloody hard to find the bird after shooting.
Look for red splotches of feathers plastered on upright objects, about 4 blocks away.
| 229 |
Political Atheist Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:33:16am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
Hope she recovers Satt
{{Sattv}}
| 230 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:34:11am |
re: #209 Obdicut
There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war.
An armed citizenry ensures that we’ll always have a strong NRA!
| 231 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:34:29am |
re: #187 laZardo
Only because AKs and their ammo are cheap as chips compared to M-4s.
There was a lot of damage was done in Rwanda by cheap Chinese machetes.
| 232 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:35:32am |
re: #209 Obdicut
Another significant reason for US military aid to Saudi Arabia is to create a buffer against Iran. US aid to the Saudis increased significantly after 1979 and expanded in the runup and aftermath of the first Gulf War.
| 234 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:35:57am |
re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Do you want the US to not sell arms, just allow the guys who make them sell them?
I run with the (albiet dangerous) assumption that we won’t sell a gun to a guy who will point it right back at us today (today, being the operative word).
For the more sophisticated and deadly systems we make sure the versions we sell are vulnerable to our leading-edge countermeasures. It occasionally pisses our customers off.
| 235 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:36:03am |
Omar Suleiman, Egypt’s intelligence chief, just got sworn in as Vice-President.
Protestors are scoffing.
| 236 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:36:38am |
re: #224 reine.de.tout
And there is another complication, that is - the arms sales are what the other governments want. How to deal with them constructively without giving them what they want? In other words, it isn’t just the US gov’t saying - play ball with us and we’ll sell you weapons. It’s other countries coming and saying - we want your weapons, and in return, we’ll do a, b or c. There’s a two-way thing going on.
Sure. And a large part of my problem is that what we ask for in a, b, or c, isn’t that they become more democratic, or that they oppress their citizens less, but more corporatist behavior, that they’ll do business with US corporations, that they’ll allow military access, that they’ll take our side in some international wrangle. So we really do supply Saudi Arabia with the means to oppress its own citizenry, and I really do feel that that is wrong.
And not taking the wants another nation has expressed into consideration would be - arrogant?
I’m sorry, I just don’t understand what you mean by that.
| 237 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:36:39am |
re: #230 ryannon
re: #209 Obdicut
There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war.
An armed citizenry ensures that we’ll always have a strong NRA!
Or for self defense?
| 238 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:37:39am |
re: #235 000G
Omar Suleiman, Egypt’s intelligence chief, just got sworn in as Vice-President.
Protestors are scoffing.
Scoff! Scoff! Scoff!
| 239 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:37:45am |
| 240 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:37:52am |
re: #227 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I’m just thinking that it is a way of controlling who gets what is sold and to whom.
But we don’t supply arms to North Korea, and if we did, it would be terrible. So I’m really unsure what your point is there.
| 241 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:38:10am |
| 242 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:38:28am |
Apparently, there will be ANOTHER VP soon.
Also,two sons of Mubarak, Alaa & Gamal + their 2 families, have arrived in London.
| 243 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:39:00am |
re: #237 BryanS
Or for self defense?
Sure. That’s still not a constructive use. It’s just situational.
I’m not disparaging the usefulness of guns in conflict. What i’m saying is, outside that narrow use, they have no use. A water pump, on the other hand, is useful all the time. That’s all I mean.
| 244 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:39:03am |
| 245 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:39:06am |
re: #237 BryanS
Or for self defense?
Or just blowing your head off. It’s a basic American right, guaranteed by the Constitution.
| 246 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:39:36am |
re: #240 Obdicut
I am a fan of controlling where arms are sold. The Government (the one I’ve got) is the one that I trust the most to sell them where they want them.
That’s all. Not arguing.
| 248 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:39:46am |
| 249 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:39:56am |
| 250 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:41:14am |
re: #230 ryannon
There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war.
There have been times when a gun blowing someone’s head off was very constructive.
| 251 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:41:28am |
re: #248 albusteve
guns are really good at neutralizing certain threats
I read that as “naturalizing” and actually agreed with you for a second.
| 252 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:42:15am |
re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I am a fan of controlling where arms are sold. The Government (the one I’ve got) is the one that I trust the most to sell them where they want them.
That’s all. Not arguing.
Okay. I’m still unsure why you’d think I was saying it was okay to sell nukes to North Korea. Nothing I said in any way headed in that direction. What I’m saying is that we should sell fewer arms to asshole dictatorships and repressive regimes, and, to the extent we do, we should get much more out of it— in terms of them making meaningful reforms for their people and moving towards democracy.
We seem, to me, stuck in a cold war mentality where we are fine with supporting oppressive regimes; I think that should end, and we should promote democracy abroad in a serious manner.
| 253 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:42:21am |
re: #249 Obdicut
Or from a banana.
[Video]
One of the video shorts on Continental, on the Denver to Houston leg of my Paris flight was a National Geographic piece called “Yams as Weapons.” Or was that something I saw on a BBC feed in Paris?
| 254 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:42:29am |
re: #250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There have been times when a gun blowing someone’s head off was very constructive.
I’ve got no beef with that. As long as it’s not me who has to clean up after.
| 255 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:46:19am |
like a lizard on a window pane…
| 257 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:49:14am |
Lady announcer on Al-Jazz ripping a new one for an apologist for the regime…
| 258 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:49:23am |
This sucks royally. According to Reuters and a state archeologist, looters broke into the Cairo Museum and destroyed two mummies.
Looters broke into the Egyptian Museum during anti-government protests late Friday and destroyed two Pharaonic mummies, Egypt’s top archaeologist told state television.The museum in central Cairo, which has the world’s biggest collection of Pharaonic antiquities, is adjacent to the headquarters of the ruling National Democratic Party that protesters had earlier set ablaze. Flames were seen still pouring out of the party headquarters early Saturday.
“I felt deeply sorry today when I came this morning to the Egyptian Museum and found that some had tried to raid the museum by force last night,” Zahi Hawass, chairman of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, said Saturday.
“Egyptian citizens tried to prevent them and were joined by the tourism police, but some (looters) managed to enter from above and they destroyed two of the mummies,” he said.
He added looters had also ransacked the ticket office.
| 259 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:50:51am |
| 260 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:53:41am |
re: #259 albusteve
indeed…sometimes one and the same
Except you don’t need a concealed carry permit for the former.
| 261 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:54:06am |
1538 Sharif Kouddous of Democracy Now! tweets: “Muslim Brotherhood chanting Allah Akbar. Crowd stopped them chanting louder: Muslim, Christian, we’re all Egyptian #Egypt”
| 262 |
William of Orange Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:54:32am |
25 years ago STS Challenger was lost. Here are some impressive photo series.
| 264 |
Romantic Heretic Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:55:35am |
re: #105 sattv4u2
Hoops
Please re-double the Lizard Prayer for my mom.
Just got a call she was taken into ICU with internal bleeding. I’m heading home (at work now) and taking the next flight I can get out. It doesn’t look good and I just want her to hang in till I get there
Sending strength and positive vibes your way.
| 265 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:56:33am |
re: #261 lawhawk
1538 Sharif Kouddous of Democracy Now! tweets: “Muslim Brotherhood chanting Allah Akbar. Crowd stopped them chanting louder: Muslim, Christian, we’re all Egyptian #Egypt”
MB better watch their step while testing the waters…they try to hijack this thing and they might fall out of favor fast
| 266 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:57:16am |
| 267 |
gamark Sat, Jan 29, 2011 7:59:36am |
re: #243 Obdicut
I’m not disparaging the usefulness of guns in conflict. What i’m saying is, outside that narrow use, they have no use. A water pump, on the other hand, is useful all the time. That’s all I mean.
A lot of folks around here find guns pretty useful for hunting and as a recreational outlet
| 268 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:01:20am |
The Aviation Minister has now been appointed as PM.
The infusion of the Army/military into the leadership positions is continuing.
| 269 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:01:49am |
re: #266 Sergey Romanov
“(PS: Godless infidels and homos still not welcome.)”
///
It’s still not Iran yet - and I don’t think it will be in a foreseeable future. And one shouldn’t confuse the official line with the opinions of the average guy in the street - especially when sixty percent of them are under 30.
| 270 |
gamark Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:02:30am |
re: #244 darthstar
Self defense from other guns, yes.
And from those physically stronger than oneself.
| 271 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:02:31am |
1601Hosni Mubarak’s two sons, Alaa and Gamal, have arrived in London, the BBC Arabic Service has confirmed.
| 272 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:03:32am |
*reading old DeWinter’s interview on Pammie’s site*
In 2002, the Democratic Party celebrated the hundred-year old Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott came under fire for having made some positive remarks about Thurmonds political views. An evil interpretation could be that the Democratic Party hasn’t changed a bit, that it’s still secretly supporting segregation, and the Jim Crow-laws. Every American knows such allegations are nonsense.
*facepalm*
| 273 |
lawhawk Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:03:49am |
Ynet is reporting that there are prison riots in Egypt, and detainee/prisoners have been killed, including members of the Muslim Brotherhood.
| 274 |
Gus Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:04:07am |
re: #268 Ericus58
The Aviation Minister has now been appointed as PM.
The infusion of the Army/military into the leadership positions is continuing.
He should come in handy when it’s time for Mubarak to make his final flight out of the country.
| 275 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:04:58am |
| 276 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:05:08am |
re: #270 gamark
And from those physically stronger than oneself.
Can also be used as shoehorns in a pinch.
| 277 |
BishopX Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:05:22am |
re: #263 ryannon
So the Muslim Brotherhood puts it’s own strength at about 20% of the population, roughly the size of the republican party…and like the republican party their party members are primarily older. The Governments has been trowing red meat to them for years by oppressing non-muslims.
Given the dearth of secular opposition parties I think it’s very hard to gauge the liberal and secular sentiment in the Egyptian population, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was higher than 20%.
| 278 |
elizajane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:05:37am |
re: #258 lawhawk
This sucks royally. According to Reuters and a state archeologist, looters broke into the Cairo Museum and destroyed two mummies.
Terrible. Can’t figure out who would do this or why. Mummies as symbols of quasi-monarchical authority over Egyptians? They’re not even representational art like the Bamiyan Buddhas were; there’s no reason for radical Islamists to destroy them.
The looting of the Iraq Museum in Baghdad, and Donald Rumsfeld shrugging and saying “Democracy is messy. Things happen,” is to me still the most enraging moment of the entire botched enterprise that was the Iraq invasion, summing up all the arrogance and stupidity of that administration. If you let chaos descend in a great city, yes, things happen.
I hope that the Cairo Museum won’t suffer the fate of the Baghdad Museum. If it does, it won’t really be comforting that it isn’t our fault this time.
| 279 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:05:41am |
re: #273 lawhawk
Ynet is reporting that there are prison riots in Egypt, and detainee/prisoners have been killed, including members of the Muslim Brotherhood.
I wonder what the % of inmates are innocent dissenters?…in fact they should be freed somehow….wouldn’t that piss off Mu?
| 280 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:06:45am |
| 281 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:07:36am |
re: #279 albusteve
I wonder what the % of inmates are innocent dissenters?…in fact they should be freed somehow…wouldn’t that piss off Mu?
As I said above, there are also reports that the police intentionally let prisoners loose so they would riot and create chaos.
| 282 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:08:20am |
re: #278 elizajane
Terrible. Can’t figure out who would do this or why. Mummies as symbols of quasi-monarchical authority over Egyptians? They’re not even representational art like the Bamiyan Buddhas were; there’s no reason for radical Islamists to destroy them.
The looting of the Iraq Museum in Baghdad, and Donald Rumsfeld shrugging and saying “Democracy is messy. Things happen,” is to me still the most enraging moment of the entire botched enterprise that was the Iraq invasion, summing up all the arrogance and stupidity of that administration. If you let chaos descend in a great city, yes, things happen.
I hope that the Cairo Museum won’t suffer the fate of the Baghdad Museum. If it does, it won’t really be comforting that it isn’t our fault this time.
Mubarak’s thugs, that’s who….trying to undermine the revolt…just a guess
| 283 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:08:39am |
re: #277 BishopX
So the Muslim Brotherhood puts it’s own strength at about 20% of the population, roughly the size of the republican party…and like the republican party their party members are primarily older. The Governments has been trowing red meat to them for years by oppressing non-muslims.
Given the dearth of secular opposition parties I think it’s very hard to gauge the liberal and secular sentiment in the Egyptian population, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was higher than 20%.
Neither would I. It’s a transparent, connected world today, and most (younger) people like what they see in liberal, secular democracies.
| 284 |
gamark Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:08:42am |
re: #276 ryannon
Can also be used as shoehorns in a pinch.
How do you think people shoot themselves in the foot?
| 285 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:09:09am |
re: #282 albusteve
See #102. Happened after the sacking.
| 286 |
BishopX Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:09:50am |
re: #278 elizajane
Probably just hooligans…. the protesters were forming human chains around the museum to prevent looters….some apparently broke in through the upper floors.
| 287 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:09:51am |
Ahmed Shafik new Prime Minister
| 288 |
elizajane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:10:58am |
re: #102 Sergey Romanov
[Link: www.zawya.com…]
CAIRO, Jan 29, 2011 (AFP) - Young Egyptians on Saturday formed a human chain to protect the Cairo museum which houses priceless antiquities, as efforts got under way around the riot-hit capital to organise neighbourhood watch committees.
Thanks for referring back to this Sergey. Very heartening.
| 289 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:11:41am |
re: #278 elizajane
I am simply terrified of the idea of bulldozers in Giza, Star and Crescent emblazoned on the sides heading full speed toward the monuments of antiquity…
| 290 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:11:51am |
New collage of images from NY TImes: [Link: www.nytimes.com…]
| 291 |
Romantic Heretic Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:13:32am |
re: #209 Obdicut
It’s a little more complicated than that. We use arms deals, sales of military technology, as part of the way that we coerce/convince/whatever other countries to do what we want. A large part of the reason that Saudi Arabia, an incredibly repressive regime, are our ‘allies’ is so that they can have access to our military technology. In addition, we often package the deals together, so that to buy the military technology they really want, they have to buy some other military tech that they don’t even necessarily want, but that we want to sell.
In the end, yes, the alternative to the US being the world’s arms dealer is the US not being the world’s arms dealer, and people who want weapons and technology buying them from other sources. I don’t think that would be a bad thing. Arms and weapons aren’t a, I don’t know how to put it, a real good; they don’t do anything. There is no constructive use of a gun, it is only for the situation where you need to fight a war. The only people who profit from the sales of arms are the manufacturers of arms. I really do wish that we focused more on making constructive goods rather than arms to sell abroad.
Also, in my understanding, with the possible exception of the oil producing nations, many these weapons are bought with money given to them by the selling nations. ‘Foreign aid’ is used to buy the weapons.
This looks good for everybody, save the taxpayer. State Departments look good because ‘they supported a friend.’ Also they’ve ‘increased exports’. The weapons manufacturers show a nice profit. And the taxpayer pays for it all.
The problem is is that we now regard weapons as a capital good. That is a product with a multiplier effect. But weapons are always a drain on an economy, not a addition.
It’s one of the reasons, in my opinion, that our economies are in trouble. Armaments are a money pit.
| 292 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:14:08am |
I keep having images of Tienanmen Square flashing though my mind.
This time? I’m just not sure who to root for.
| 293 |
BishopX Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:14:21am |
re: #273 lawhawk
The differences in coverage between Ynet and AJ are really interesting. Ynet is talking about rioting and how the army is restoring order. AJ is talking about protesters and how the violence stopped when the military replaced the security services because the protesters welcomed the army.
Ynet talks about looting and AJ talks about citizens groups and trying to stop looting…
| 294 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:15:34am |
re: #282 albusteve
Terrible. Can’t figure out who would do this or why. Mummies as symbols of quasi-monarchical authority over Egyptians? They’re not even representational art like the Bamiyan Buddhas were; there’s no reason for radical Islamists to destroy them.
The looting of the Iraq Museum in Baghdad, and Donald Rumsfeld shrugging and saying “Democracy is messy. Things happen,” is to me still the most enraging moment of the entire botched enterprise that was the Iraq invasion, summing up all the arrogance and stupidity of that administration. If you let chaos descend in a great city, yes, things happen.
I hope that the Cairo Museum won’t suffer the fate of the Baghdad Museum. If it does, it won’t really be comforting that it isn’t our fault this time.
Mubarak’s thugs, that’s who…trying to undermine the revolt…just a guess
I suspect that you will find more missing than destroyed, the destruction element is probably a cover.
The illegal antiquities trade is a well organized and cutthroat business. Antiquity dealers have standing orders for certain items, like wish lists, and there are small bands of looters in all countries where there are major antiquities, waiting for incidences like this to make a move and “fill” an order.
It’s pre-planned, finance and controlled by the larger illegal antiquities dealers.
Where as there are societal and religious reasons that antiquities get destroyed, the is a larger business reason not to destroy them and to loot them.
| 295 |
BishopX Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:16:54am |
AJ is reporting lots of automatic weapon fire in the mahadi neighborhood …which is a wealthy area with a prison nearby? Apparently lots of consular eployees live here. AJ is talking like it’s a gun battle.
| 296 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:18:59am |
re: #294 Walter L. Newton
I suspect that you will find more missing than destroyed, the destruction element is probably a cover.
The illegal antiquities trade is a well organized and cutthroat business. Antiquity dealers have standing orders for certain items, like wish lists, and there are small bands of looters in all countries where there are major antiquities, waiting for incidences like this to make a move and “fill” an order.
It’s pre-planned, finance and controlled by the larger illegal antiquities dealers.
Where as there are societal and religious reasons that antiquities get destroyed, the is a larger business reason not to destroy them and to loot them.
probably more likely…but it seems like people would have an eye out for exactly that…there’s more to this story
| 297 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:20:00am |
re: #293 BishopX
The differences in coverage between Ynet and AJ are really interesting. Ynet is talking about rioting and how the army is restoring order. AJ is talking about protesters and how the violence stopped when the military replaced the security services because the protesters welcomed the army.
Ynet talks about looting and AJ talks about citizens groups and trying to stop looting…
The latest audio report from a suburb in Cairo was no where safe, nor secure. I think these will be the areas that mayhem will occur.
| 298 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:21:16am |
re: #296 albusteve
probably more likely…but it seems like people would have an eye out for exactly that…there’s more to this story
Mummy Dearest!
| 300 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:22:11am |
US undersecretary Jonathan Alterman on CNN: “I don’t sense that the Egyptians want democracy” #Jan25
Eh?
Egyptian protester says The #American gov’t gives our dictators tear gas and guns, but American friends gave us proxies #jan25 #egypt #usa
Awwww…
| 302 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:23:02am |
re: #298 ryannon
Mummy Dearest!
LOL
is that an obelisk in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
| 303 |
Mich-again Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:24:01am |
From GWB’s Second Inaugural speech..
Some, I know, have questioned the global appeal of liberty—though this time in history, four decades defined by the swiftest advance of freedom ever seen, is an odd time for doubt. Americans, of all people, should never be surprised by the power of our ideals. Eventually, the call of freedom comes to every mind and every soul. We do not accept the existence of permanent tyranny because we do not accept the possibility of permanent slavery. Liberty will come to those who love it.
I thought one of the broader goals of the war in Iraq was to set up a democracy that would serve as a beacon to the others in the region and other nations would follow suit. I always said it would take years perhaps decades to see how everything would sort itself out in the ME after GWB kicked over all the tables and blew up the status quo in the ME. Before him, the main goal for the US in the ME was stability, not liberty. Anyway, you can’t accuse GWB of trying to maintain the status quo.
The long term goal is that democracy brings peace to the region even if it means short term chaos. Whats happening in Egypt pretty much has to happen in order to get rid of a tyrant. They don’t usually leave without a kick in the tail. The question is, will the new Government be more or less repressive and hostile to US interests.
| 304 |
Ericus58 Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:24:39am |
| 305 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:25:15am |
| 306 |
drcordell Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:25:17am |
So what is the best outcome for the US in this situation? Hope that Mubarak is overthrown and a democracy receptive to our interests forms? Hope that the military seizes power because they are pro-US and wish to keep the arms deals coming? Hope that the status-quo continues?
| 308 |
Gus Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:26:45am |
re: #287 000G
Ahmed Shafik new Prime Minister
He’s 69 years old. Allegedly shot down two Israeli aircraft in 1973 during the Yom Kippur War. He was a commander then.
Mubarak is 82 and the new VP is 74. That’s quite the retirement village cabinet he’s putting together.
| 311 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:29:41am |
re: #308 Gus 802
He’s 69 years old. Allegedly shot down two Israeli aircraft in 1973 during the Yom Kippur War. He was a commander then.
Mubarak is 82 and the new VP is 74. That’s quite the retirement village cabinet he’s putting together.
Egypt’s Youth Bulge is already shouting down the new geriatric bosses, same as the old geriatric bosses.
| 313 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:31:29am |
Good morning … None of us really knows what will happen when the dust settles in Egypt. One thing we ALL should hope is that the people of Egypt have seen what Iranian paradise is like and make sure not to go down that road.
So far, I think Obama is handling it OK. But he needs to make sure THIS crisis doesn’t go to waste.
| 314 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:32:00am |
| 315 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:33:21am |
I am amazed at the reports of self-policing that come up. Now they apparently set up a committee to protect private & public property that has its own hotline to call for help and everything.
| 316 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:33:52am |
re: #314 000G
On CNN, they said he was a”transitional” leader who will pave the way for what is next.
| 318 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:34:23am |
re: #315 000G
I am amazed at the reports of self-policing that come up. Now they apparently set up a committee to protect private & public property that has its own hotline to call for help and everything.
Libertarians are in heat at the moment I’m sure.
| 319 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:34:49am |
re: #313 _RememberTonyC
Good morning … None of us really knows what will happen when the dust settles in Egypt. One thing we ALL should hope is that the people of Egypt have seen what Iranian paradise is like and make sure not to go down that road.
So far, I think Obama is handling it OK. But he needs to make sure THIS crisis doesn’t go to waste.
Sometimes people have to go down certain roads, no matter what, to learn the lessons that their creeds and ideologies, while attractive, are false gods in light of reality and human rights.
It’s a bitch, isn’t it.
| 320 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:34:55am |
re: #304 Ericus58
US undersecretary Jonathan Alterman on CNN: “I don’t sense that the Egyptians want democracy” #Jan25
If that is true… what a bonehead.
Correction, Jonathan Alterman is NOT an Udersecretary, he’s NOT a US official. He’s Mideast Director with CSIS #Jan25
Citizen’s reporting means very little editing indeed. Heh.
| 321 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:36:48am |
re: #316 _RememberTonyC
On CNN, they said he was a”transitional” leader who will pave the way for what is next.
That’s the speculation. The person in offic isn’t the only thing that is new about the Vice President—said office has not existed the past 30 years.
| 322 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:37:32am |
Flickr set from Downtown Cairo before curfew: [Link: www.flickr.com…]
| 324 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:40:09am |
re: #319 Walter L. Newton
Sometimes people have to go down certain roads, no matter what, to learn the lessons that their creeds and ideologies, while attractive, are false gods in light of reality and human rights.
It’s a bitch, isn’t it.
Sadly yes … But in the information age, there is a better chance that people who hear different voices will make a decent decision once in awhile.
| 325 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:42:07am |
re: #321 BryanS
That’s the speculation. The person in offic isn’t the only thing that is new about the Vice President—said office has not existed the past 30 years.
As I said before … Hopefully the Egyptian people will handle their situation having learned the lessons of Iran. I suppose the army will be cognizant of that.
| 326 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:43:17am |
Another Flickr set: [Link: www.flickr.com…]
| 327 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:43:22am |
I think we have to look at the goings on in Turkey and see how they influence those in Egypt.
| 329 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:45:56am |
Armed gangs of thugs and looters roaming some of the Cairo streets.
| 332 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:48:32am |
re: #328 ryannon
Army, Protesters protect imperiled Cairo Museum
| 333 |
gamark Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:50:47am |
re: #331 ryannon
“There are no police visible in Cairo”
From what I’ve seen reported, the police are not very popular with the crowds. Kinda like the LAPD not being visible on the streets during the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict.
| 334 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:51:09am |
re: #332 jaunte
Yes, and since last night.
But just right now on Al-Jaz, a guy is giving some terrifying testimony about looters in residential areas.
| 335 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:51:44am |
re: #278 elizajane
Terrible. Can’t figure out who would do this or why. Mummies as symbols of quasi-monarchical authority over Egyptians? They’re not even representational art like the Bamiyan Buddhas were; there’s no reason for radical Islamists to destroy them.
The looting of the Iraq Museum in Baghdad, and Donald Rumsfeld shrugging and saying “Democracy is messy. Things happen,” is to me still the most enraging moment of the entire botched enterprise that was the Iraq invasion, summing up all the arrogance and stupidity of that administration. If you let chaos descend in a great city, yes, things happen.
I hope that the Cairo Museum won’t suffer the fate of the Baghdad Museum. If it does, it won’t really be comforting that it isn’t our fault this time.
Apparently, most of the stuff from the Baghdad Museum has been located and is back on display.
| 336 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:52:36am |
re: #333 gamark
From what I’ve seen reported, the police are not very popular with the crowds. Kinda like the LAPD not being visible on the streets during the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict.
Of course, but they’re not responding to calls for help from looters by people in residential neighborhoods.
| 337 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:52:41am |
In residential areas of Cairo people setting up barricades to protect their streets. Wielding clubs, knives fearing looters.
Widely believed hated #Egypt police force playing part in the chaos and looting. they’ve abandoned their posts, in civilian clothes
| 338 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:54:32am |
| 339 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:56:38am |
Looks like the Army is about to actually enforce the curfew, guess they were just reviewing the situation until now to make sure they could do it:
| 340 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:57:35am |
Human wall in front of Cairo Museum:
[Link: yfrog.com…]
| 341 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jan 29, 2011 8:58:45am |
Pictures from the damages in the museum:
[Link: twitter.com…]
| 342 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:00:07am |
Sandmonkey back on twitter:
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
@
@bandidoofoz yes definitely most of these thugs are police in plain clothes. #Jan25
6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
Dear Mubarak, collect your thugs, it’s not working. You’re sacrificing them. We’re protecting the streets. #Jan25
7 minutes ago
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
I think Interior ministry thugs tryin 2 terrorize streets 2 avoid being handed over to ppl. Military cabinet will not tolerate police #Jan25
9 minutes ago
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
still no Blackberry service in #Egypt #Jan25
10 minutes ago
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
my aunt lives next to presidential palace, she says she’s hearing repeated gun battles #Jan25 #Egypt
29 minutes ago
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
@
@theiapsswalker army left Roxi square. Their presence not felt. No where to be seen here. #Jan25 #Egypt
| 343 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:03:14am |
re: #339 000G
Oh hell.
| 344 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:06:17am |
| 345 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:06:34am |
re: #315 000G
I am amazed at the reports of self-policing that come up. Now they apparently set up a committee to protect private & public property that has its own hotline to call for help and everything.
I’m not surprised. My classmate has been giving the rest of us a crash course in Egyptian culture as all this has unfolded, and this sounds about right. Yesterday, she posted about a woman bringing food to her kids as they protested, and they turned and shared their sandwiches with the police who’d been standing 24 hours without food. She also told a story about a police officer getting badly injured and protesters carrying him to the doctor.
The way she tells it, all these protests are not people against people, but rather people asking for change. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.
| 346 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:06:59am |
re: #342 reine.de.tout
Wasn’t Sandmonkey the lone heroic blogger who was arrested by Egyptian authorities several years ago?
| 347 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:07:52am |
re: #344 wrenchwench
Here’s an older one:
“Anonymous”! Maybe the Leakers should relocate.
You’ve really got that all wrong, but don’t think twice, it’s alright.
| 348 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:09:58am |
re: #344 wrenchwench
Here’s an older one:
“Anonymous”! Maybe the Leakers should relocate.
Heh.
And BB with them?
| 349 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:10:48am |
re: #346 ryannon
Wasn’t Sandmonkey the lone heroic blogger who was arrested by Egyptian authorities several years ago?
I don’t believe he’s been arrested.
I believe that was a friend, or at least a blogging colleague of his, I recall reading the Sandmonkey’s blog about it.
| 351 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:12:55am |
Aw.
Al-JazeeraEnglish showing museum damage.
Hell.
| 352 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:13:09am |
| 354 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:16:21am |
| 357 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:20:22am |
re: #355 ryannon
Military deploying to protect neighborhoods from looters…
Dat’s un likely story… korrekt?
| 358 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:20:26am |
re: #303 Mich-again
From GWB’s Second Inaugural speech..
I thought one of the broader goals of the war in Iraq was to set up a democracy that would serve as a beacon to the others in the region and other nations would follow suit.
I like and agree with that excerpt from Bush’s speech, but do you really think the situation in Iraq qualifies as a beacon of democracy?
The hegemonic intentions of Bush’s primary advisors is well-documented. His administration was fully a part of the long-standing American policy of supporting autocracies.
Let Bush’s statement stand on its own. If you’re trying to give him credit for the natural tendency of people to throw off autocratic rulers, you will only diminish the power of his statement - which, in fact, refers to an irrepressible power of liberty that is not the function of American foreign policy one way or the other.
| 359 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:20:46am |
BBL. Time to rustle up some grub in the mean Parisian streets.
| 360 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:21:40am |
re: #357 Walter L. Newton
Dat’s un likely story… korrekt?
According to Al-Jazz, who seem to be on top of breaking news all along
| 361 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:22:26am |
re: #359 ryannon
BBL. Time to rustle up some grub in the mean Parisian streets.
You mean in your arrondissement you’re libel to get bump by someone over laden with fashion sense.
| 362 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:22:47am |
re: #351 reine.de.tout
Re: Your comments yesterday about Egyptians’ response to Clinton. I did hear an NPR report yesterday where the correspondent was saying there was widespread anger at the Obama administration’s response.
| 363 |
darthstar Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:28:06am |
re: #362 Talking Point Detective
widespread anger at the Obama administration’s response.
Somebody asked Fox news for an opinion?
| 364 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:33:07am |
| 365 |
simoom Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:38:39am |
China Micro-Blogging Sites Censor Egypt:
The word “Egypt” was censored Saturday by several micro-blogging sites in China, where the ruling Communist Party is wary of issues of political reform, demands for democracy and disturbances to public order, including overseas.
On the sina.com and sohu.com sites, the Chinese equivalents of Twitter, which is censored in China, a query with the word “Egypt” returned the response: “According to the laws in force, the results of your search cannot be given.”
| 366 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:43:31am |
re: #362 Talking Point Detective
Re: Your comments yesterday about Egyptians’ response to Clinton. I did hear an NPR report yesterday where the correspondent was saying there was widespread anger at the Obama administration’s response.
Well, of course.
I’m not sure what the citizens of Egypt think we can do, short of going over there and joining them.
Government representatives walk a very very fine line in their statements, it’s a difficult thing to do. I was listening to Kerry being interviewed the other day - he did an EXCELLENT job, but his statements were all over the place, as they had to be!
Public officials and their statements - gosh, I would hate to be the one trying to figure out how to strike the right tone. It’s a tough job, and honestly, I don’t think you saw me having problems with the administration’s response during the Iran thing, nor on this one. It’s a tough, tough job, to get it right when something like this is going on.
| 367 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:44:05am |
ElBaradei is speaking on AlJazera now telling Mubarak to step down. What is his story? Is he part of the Muslim Brotherhood? Do the people support him?
| 368 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:45:27am |
re: #367 marjoriemoon
ElBaradei is speaking on AlJazera now telling Mubarak to step down. What is his story? Is he part of the Muslim Brotherhood? Do the people support him?
I don’t think he’s part of the MB, but I don’t know that for sure.
He was head of the UN IAEA for a long time.
| 369 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:46:42am |
re: #367 marjoriemoon
ElBaradei is speaking on AlJazera now telling Mubarak to step down. What is his story? Is he part of the Muslim Brotherhood? Do the people support him?
I don’t think he’s affiliated with the MB, He;s just a high profile Egyptian with international credentials. I don’t think he even has much support in Egypt but he looks like he just wants to step into fill the power vacuum in case Mubarak steps down.
| 370 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:46:52am |
Listing to translation of ElBaradei’s statements.
Is he making his play for power?
| 371 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:47:00am |
re: #367 marjoriemoon
ElBaradei is speaking on AlJazera now telling Mubarak to step down. What is his story? Is he part of the Muslim Brotherhood? Do the people support him?
Short version… was the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), an inter-governmental organisation under the auspices of the United Nations from December 1997 to November 2009 and couln’t find any evidence that Iran was trying to get nukes… or anyone else in the middle east had or wanted nukes… except Israel.
| 372 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:48:08am |
Sandmonkey:
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
women carry sticks &join volunteer protection committees on the streets of Heliopolis. Ppl saluting army. It’s great. #Jan25
10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey
@
@g_willow still no internet, calling a friend abroad to tweet.
23 minutes ago
| 373 |
Winny Spencer Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:49:14am |
re: #371 Walter L. Newton
Short version… was the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), an inter-governmental organisation under the auspices of the United Nations from December 1997 to November 2009 and couln’t find any evidence that Iran was trying to get nukes… or anyone else in the middle east had or wanted nukes… except Israel.
A shady character for sure.
| 374 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:49:41am |
re: #369 Killgore Trout
re: #370 reine.de.tout
re: #371 Walter L. Newton
Ah ok… I remember hearing about him. I was reading about his position with the IAEA.
He’s calling for democracy in Egypt and yes, Reine, seems he’s trying to maneuver himself. He made some mention that Egypt shouldn’t let others dictate what is good for Egyptian people.
| 375 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:49:55am |
re: #373 Winny Spencer
A shady character for sure.
In an interview published on July 12, 2010 in the German magazine Der Spiegel, ElBaradei said “I do not believe that the Iranians are actually producing nuclear weapons. […] in general, the danger of a nuclear-armed Iran is overestimated, some even play it up intentionally.[29]
| 376 |
justaminute Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:50:27am |
The Egyptian youth are similar to the Iranian youth that started the Green Revolution in Iran. They see the world thru their Internet connections. I really don’t think they will embrace the Muslim Brotherhood as their way forward after getting rid of this government. Unfortunately they don’t have a leader like the Greens and are left with opportunists who step into the breach.
Bush didn’t bring this push for democracy it was the Internet and every new advance like cell phones, I Phones, Twitter,etc. which brings INFORMATION is what advances Democracy.
| 377 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:51:21am |
re: #376 justaminute
The Egyptian youth are similar to the Iranian youth that started the Green Revolution in Iran. They see the world thru their Internet connections. I really don’t think they will embrace the Muslim Brotherhood as their way forward after getting rid of this government. Unfortunately they don’t have a leader like the Greens and are left with opportunists who step into the breach.
Bush didn’t bring this push for democracy it was the Internet and every new advance like cell phones, I Phones, Twitter,etc. which brings INFORMATION is what advances Democracy.
I agree information and how quickly it spreads has a huge effect on world events like this one.
| 378 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:52:16am |
from twitter, I don’t have a clue how accurate this is:
SaloumehZ SaloumehZ
ElBaradei now being interviewed on AlJazeera. ElBaradei has close ties to Muslim Brotherhood, Islamist group. #Egypt
| 379 |
simoom Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:52:19am |
re: reine.de.tout
I’ve always been curious about your little crown avatar, and on a whim just ran it through one of those reverse image searches, and this came up:
It’s actually kind of impressive it was able to find that from just a 24x24 px pink crown :P.
| 380 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:52:20am |
re: #376 justaminute
The Egyptian youth are similar to the Iranian youth that started the Green Revolution in Iran. They see the world thru their Internet connections. I really don’t think they will embrace the Muslim Brotherhood as their way forward after getting rid of this government. Unfortunately they don’t have a leader like the Greens and are left with opportunists who step into the breach.
Bush didn’t bring this push for democracy it was the Internet and every new advance like cell phones, I Phones, Twitter,etc. which brings INFORMATION is what advances Democracy.
Did President Obama help any?
| 381 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:53:07am |
re: #376 justaminute
Bush didn’t bring this push for democracy it was the Internet and every new advance like cell phones, I Phones, Twitter,etc. which brings INFORMATION is what advances Democracy.
Proof is that the government went after those.
| 382 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:53:46am |
re: #379 simoom
I’ve always been curious about your little crown avatar, and on a whim just ran it through one of those reverse image searches, and this came up:
It’s actually kind of impressive it was able to find that from just a 24x24 px pink crown :P.
LOL.
I don’t even recall how I got that - I think I cropped that pic you found so I would have the crown looking like it was sitting on top of the world. Had a difficult time finding just the right thing.
| 383 |
simoom Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:54:49am |
re: #382 reine.de.tout
Yeah, if you had used the whole image at 24px it would probably be an unrecognizable blob :P. The crown is perfect :).
| 384 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:54:55am |
LEVIN: So what do you make with what’s going on in Egypt right now?BOLTON: Well, I think it’s a real crisis for the regime. I think the outpourings in the street that have now been joined by the Muslim Brotherhood really do put the issue squarely on the table […] My take is that they are digging in for a fight, they intend to resist, and that the real alternative is not Jefferson democracy versus the Mubarak regime, but that it’s the Muslim Brotherhood versus the Mubarak regime, and that has enormous implications for the U.S., for Israel, and our other friends in the region.
LEVIN: See, that’s my take on it too. I’m not aware of these spontaneous Jeffersonian democracy drives in the Arab world. Maybe I could be missing something. Mike Ledeen makes the point, I think he’s right, that every Jihadi nutjob is probably pouring into Egypt right now.
BOLTON: Oh, this is the big opportunity. That’s why so much of the Obama administration opposition to it has been feckless. […] And the Muslim Brotherhood knows how to use Twitter just like naive college students do. So I don’t disagree. There are a lot of people in the streets who have legitimate grievances, they want more open government, so even if Mubarak were to fall, those idealistic people aren’t going to create the new government, the Brotherhood is.
| 386 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:56:08am |
re: #380 Walter L. Newton
Did President Obama help any?
ElBaradei said in his interview just now that the U.S. should “recalculate its agenda”. I’m not sure what that means.
| 387 |
justaminute Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:56:41am |
re: #380 Walter L. Newton
Did President Obama help any?
No, not really, it was already fomenting in Iran before he was even elected. They hoped President Obama would help them but was quickly disabused of that notion.
| 388 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:57:25am |
Hey all!
I think I got Walter’s sinus infection. I slept a lot yesterday.
Wad’ I mith?
How is everyone?
| 389 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 9:59:45am |
re: #367 marjoriemoon
ElBaradei is speaking on AlJazera now telling Mubarak to step down. What is his story? Is he part of the Muslim Brotherhood? Do the people support him?
He’s a toothless old bugger who’ll not be of much use to anyone.
| 390 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:00:38am |
re: #376 justaminute
The Egyptian youth are similar to the Iranian youth that started the Green Revolution in Iran. They see the world thru their Internet connections. I really don’t think they will embrace the Muslim Brotherhood as their way forward after getting rid of this government. Unfortunately they don’t have a leader like the Greens and are left with opportunists who step into the breach.
Bush didn’t bring this push for democracy it was the Internet and every new advance like cell phones, I Phones, Twitter,etc. which brings INFORMATION is what advances Democracy.
Unfortuantely The MB is Egypt’s most significant political force and a representative democratic government would surely include them and they would probably win a lot of popular elections.
CIA: Egypt
Muslim Brotherhood (technically illegal)
note: despite a constitutional ban against religious-based parties and political activity, the technically illegal Muslim Brotherhood constitutes Egypt’s most potentially significant political opposition; President MUBARAK has alternated between tolerating limited political activity by the Brotherhood and blocking its influence (its members compete as independents in elections but do not currently hold any seats in the legislature); civic society groups are sanctioned, but constrained in practical terms; only trade unions and professional associations affiliated with the government are officially sanctioned; Internet social networking groups and bloggers
| 391 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:02:00am |
re: #380 Walter L. Newton
Did President Obama help any?
Actually, Obama helped in exactly the same way as Bush - by supporting an autocratic regime in Egypt, that allowed for a wider economic split between its population even as its economy grew, and that brutally suppressed dissent.
| 392 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:03:02am |
re: #386 marjoriemoon
ElBaradei said in his interview just now that the U.S. should “recalculate its agenda”. I’m not sure what that means.
Neither does he, trust me.
| 393 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:03:30am |
re: #389 ryannon
He’s a toothless old bugger who’ll not be of much use to anyone.
From that broadcast, they were saying that he wasn’t mentioned in any of the protests, not pro nor con. I think it’s anyone’s guess at this point what is going to happen.
| 394 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:04:13am |
re: #367 marjoriemoon
Do the people support him?
I don’t think so. I think he’s perceived as an outsider, since he’s spent so much time living abroad instead of in Egypt itself. It would be like an American ex-pat who hasn’t lived here in decades trying to come back and run for POTUS.
| 395 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:04:27am |
They showed earlier the ransacking of the antiquities in the museum. Many damaged or destroyed.
| 396 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:05:36am |
re: #394 Lidane
I don’t think so. I think he’s perceived as an outsider, since he’s spent so much time living abroad instead of in Egypt itself. It would be like an American ex-pat who hasn’t lived here in decades trying to come back and run for POTUS.
Isn’t that just what happened? LOL.
| 397 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:05:46am |
Have to leave to run some errands.
I’m so fascinated with this, I hate to tear myself away for any length of time.
pfft.
But I know when I come back, I’ll can get updated quickly! Thanks to all following this and posting info.
| 398 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:05:58am |
So fill me in,
-about the MB contribution to the protests after Friday Prayers?
-Is the internet unblocked in Egypt?
I heard blurbs —Mubarak fired his cabinet, said he would bow to the changes demanded by the protesters. Is this a “symbolic” gesture, or is it real?
What is the feeling about ElBaradei? I don’t remember him being significantly effective as the head of the IAEA (something to do with Iraq).
| 399 |
justaminute Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:07:08am |
re: #390 Killgore Trout
Our form of government didn’t start off perfectly either. Of course the MB will have a part. Egypt is going to be rolling battles even when the present government is shed. Democracy is messy and we who have been practicing it show how hard it is.
| 401 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:08:36am |
re: #396 Walter L. Newton
Isn’t that just what happened? LOL.
But I believe that ElBaradei is legally a citizen of Egypt (probably has a birth certificate, also).
| 402 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:08:54am |
re: #388 ggt
Hey all!
I think I got Walter’s sinus infection. I slept a lot yesterday.
Wad’ I mith?
How is everyone?
I’m on antibiotics now, for 4 days, getting a little better. Got to start work again, tonight at midnight. Not a great time to be called back from the lay off, but at least I got called back. I’m going to have to pace myself so I don’t have a relapse.
| 403 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:09:01am |
re: #401 Talking Point Detective
But I believe that ElBaradei is legally a citizen of Egypt (probably has a birth certificate, also).
ROTFLAMO!
| 404 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:09:13am |
re: #396 Walter L. Newton
If Obama had spent all that time abroad as an adult instead of as a kid, sure.
| 405 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:09:31am |
re: #401 Talking Point Detective
But I believe that ElBaradei is legally a citizen of Egypt (probably has a birth certificate, also).
Your humor meter is broken… don’t bother me.
| 406 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:09:49am |
re: #404 Lidane
If Obama had spent all that time abroad as an adult instead of as a kid, sure.
Your humor meter is broken too.
| 407 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:11:13am |
| 408 |
lostlakehiker Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:11:15am |
re: #306 drcordell
So what is the best outcome for the US in this situation? Hope that Mubarak is overthrown and a democracy receptive to our interests forms? Hope that the military seizes power because they are pro-US and wish to keep the arms deals coming? Hope that the status-quo continues?
The best outcome for the U.S. is that some sort of moderate government, one with structures that limit the speed with which the passions of the mob are translated into policy, but one that is ultimately responsible to the people, arise.
All your major constitutional democracies work that way, and all such states find themselves with a certain community of interest. We’d naturally be friends with an Egypt like that. That would also be the best outcome for Egypt, I think.
The status quo ante has by now become irretrievable. The military might seize power but military governments tend to fall if not buttressed by some sort of ideology. And there’s no way that Egypt will make the leader of a coup into a God-King like the Kims of NORKland. I’m not the greatest admirer of Islam but it cannot be missed that Islam inoculates a population against that kind of idolatry.
| 409 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:11:43am |
re: #390 Killgore Trout
Unfortuantely The MB is Egypt’s most significant political force and a representative democratic government would surely include them and they would probably win a lot of popular elections.
CIA: EgyptMuslim Brotherhood (technically illegal)
That’s the greatest fear. But I don’t know how clear it is if the people support them. I wouldn’t think so only because the Egyptians have more freedom as compared to other Arab states which, granted, isn’t anywhere near a true democracy like us or Israel. However, they know what democracy is about even if they don’t have it. Or am I being naive? Or just wishful thinking on my part.
The larger problem, my fear, is an M.B. takeover despite what the people feel.
| 410 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:12:35am |
re: #402 Walter L. Newton
I’m on antibiotics now, for 4 days, getting a little better. Got to start work again, tonight at midnight. Not a great time to be called back from the lay off, but at least I got called back. I’m going to have to pace myself so I don’t have a relapse.
I’ve had a life-time of sinus infections—chronic allergies are the culprit for me. I think I’ve had a low-level sinus infection going on for a while-it’s kinda my “normal”. Neti pot helps tremendously.
Started on antibiotics yesterday, feeling better today. Sleeping in the recliner helps alleviate the pressure and headaches that result.
Glad you are feeling better, Walter. There is little worse than a full-blown untreated sinus infection.
Good news on the job-front as well! It all happened around your planned vacation. Not bad on the karma scale! :)
| 411 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:13:40am |
re: #409 marjoriemoon
Your last sentence shows that you are not being naive. Maybe wishful. I’m sure that’s a common feeling in Cairo right now too.
| 412 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:14:20am |
Have the “demands” of the protesting populace been put into a statement?
What exactly do they want? I’m really confused on this point.
| 413 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:15:22am |
re: #407 Walter L. Newton
What ya have to eat?
Roast chicken, potatoes, whole milk Camembert, cherry tomatoes and salad, French bread and….Diet Coke!
| 414 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:16:16am |
re: #409 marjoriemoon
The larger problem, my fear, is an M.B. takeover despite what the people feel.
I think everyone fears that. It would be the worst-case scenerio. Almost anything seems better result.
| 415 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:16:22am |
re: #412 ggt
Have the “demands” of the protesting populace been put into a statement?
What exactly do they want? I’m really confused on this point.
Roast chicken, potatoes, whole milk Camembert, cherry tomatoes and salad, French bread and…Diet Coke!
| 416 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:17:01am |
re: #415 ryannon
Roast chicken, potatoes, whole milk Camembert, cherry tomatoes and salad, French bread and…Diet Coke!
Is there garlic involved?
| 418 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:18:34am |
re: #409 marjoriemoon
That’s the greatest fear. But I don’t know how clear it is if the people support them. I wouldn’t think so only because the Egyptians have more freedom as compared to other Arab states which, granted, isn’t anywhere near a true democracy like us or Israel. However, they know what democracy is about even if they don’t have it. Or am I being naive? Or just wishful thinking on my part.
The larger problem, my fear, is an M.B. takeover despite what the people feel.
It’s almost impossible to tell and the press isn’t doing a lousy job at speculating about what might result if Mubarak were to step down. The saying about demcracy in the Muslim world is “one man, one vote, but only once”. If the Muslim Brotherhood were to gain power it would likely be the last election for a very long time.
| 419 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:20:32am |
re: #410 ggt
I’ve had a life-time of sinus infections—chronic allergies are the culprit for me. I think I’ve had a low-level sinus infection going on for a while-it’s kinda my “normal”. Neti pot helps tremendously.
Started on antibiotics yesterday, feeling better today. Sleeping in the recliner helps alleviate the pressure and headaches that result.
Glad you are feeling better, Walter. There is little worse than a full-blown untreated sinus infection.
Good news on the job-front as well! It all happened around your planned vacation. Not bad on the karma scale! :)
Unexpected too. That wasn’t a lay off, it was like a short leave of absence. The strange thing, 3 1/2 week ago they laid off a total of 6 people, like the world was coming to an end for them, and I know the two cashiers that were laid off are coming back, me and another guy, and my hours this week are 33.5, which is about 13 hours more than then usually give me (and I need or want). So, I don’t know who in the ivory towers are making these decisions because something don’t seem to shake out.
My girlfriend, who works retail at a corporate HQ of a company, says she thinks that Kroger needed to show some figures on some reports, stuff for the stake holders, or something like that, so the cooked the staff for a month to make something look better than it is/was.
It will kick me a few bucks into the red, but I have a small buffer, and nothing will go untaken care of… and the extended hours will kick my ass a little, considering my health right now, but, considering the times and situation currently, I’m happy.
| 420 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:23:39am |
re: #415 ryannon
Roast chicken, potatoes, whole milk Camembert, cherry tomatoes and salad, French bread and…Diet Coke!
And SUN… I just looked at the your weather forecast… SUN. It must have been out for restoration earlier this month.
| 421 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:24:47am |
| 422 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:26:03am |
re: #418 Killgore Trout
It’s almost impossible to tell and the press isn’t doing a lousy job at speculating about what might result if Mubarak were to step down. The saying about demcracy in the Muslim world is “one man, one vote, but only once”. If the Muslim Brotherhood were to gain power it would likely be the last election for a very long time.
Yes, that’s true, but at times like this, right smack dab in the middle of it all, it’s impossible for the press to speculate. That the army isn’t doing anything and is actually going out looting dressed in plain clothes is shocking. Although Aljazaera was saying that much of the army supports the protesters. It’s anyone’s guess.
| 423 |
ryannon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:26:12am |
re: #420 Walter L. Newton
And SUN… I just looked at the your weather forecast… SUN. It must have been out for restoration earlier this month.
Very timid sun today. Still grey and grim out there.
| 424 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:28:54am |
| 425 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:37:17am |
re: #417 ryannon
Not really. No snails in garlic butter sauce tonight.
Demands, such as the ones you listed, can’t be serious if they don’t include garlic.
| 426 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:38:26am |
re: #419 Walter L. Newton
Unexpected too. That wasn’t a lay off, it was like a short leave of absence. The strange thing, 3 1/2 week ago they laid off a total of 6 people, like the world was coming to an end for them, and I know the two cashiers that were laid off are coming back, me and another guy, and my hours this week are 33.5, which is about 13 hours more than then usually give me (and I need or want). So, I don’t know who in the ivory towers are making these decisions because something don’t seem to shake out.
My girlfriend, who works retail at a corporate HQ of a company, says she thinks that Kroger needed to show some figures on some reports, stuff for the stake holders, or something like that, so the cooked the staff for a month to make something look better than it is/was.
It will kick me a few bucks into the red, but I have a small buffer, and nothing will go untaken care of… and the extended hours will kick my ass a little, considering my health right now, but, considering the times and situation currently, I’m happy.
Corporate creative accounting —gotta love it!
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