Onion: Terrorists Planting Normal Hard-Working ‘Decoy Muslims’

It’s a trick
Humor • Views: 35,229

The Onion News Network encapsulates Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller.

Youtube Video

And the harpy shrieks: THE SILENCE OF MUSLIMS IN AMERICA! - Atlas Shrugs

For years, since 911, actually, we have been told that Islam is a religion of peace (despite the tens of thousands of Islamic attacks across the world since 911) and that most Muslims are moderate, peace loving, tolerant, blah, blah, blah.

So where are they? Seriously. The entire approach and US policy is based on this false premise. After all, the thinking goes, if Islam is going to be reformed, it will have to be done by those Muslims. Yes, and Santy Claus is gonna be especially good to me this year.

Jump to bottom

665 comments
1 justaminute  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:02:11pm

Or you could marry one of those decoy Muslims. D'oh.///

2 Henchman 25  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:02:52pm

How long before the humorless wingnuts take this as truth?

3 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:03:55pm

They always drag in Santa Claus.

4 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:05:31pm

It's hilarious, but it's really not sufficiently different from some of the 'winger screeds I have seen for me to be comfortable as I laugh.

5 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:06:07pm

"Yes, and Santy Claus is gonna be especially good to me this year."

A lot of bitterness towards Santa (or Santy?!) there...

6 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:06:46pm

re: #3 Ojoe

They always drag in Santa Claus.

Yeah, I was just wondering why a Jew would be thinking about Santy Claus being particularly good to her.

7 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:07:09pm

re: #5 harald

"Yes, and Santy Claus is gonna be especially good to me this year."

A lot of bitterness towards Santa (or Santy?!) there...

Yeah, well, Santa's a jerk.
He didn't give the plutonium I asked for.
And to think, I was.... good (shudders) that year!

8 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:07:21pm

Wait, I'm confused. Which one is supposed to be real and which one is supposed to be comic relief?

9 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:07:51pm

re: #8 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Wait, I'm confused. Which one is supposed to be real and which one is supposed to be comic relief?

This.

10 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:08:26pm

That was freaking funny

11 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:11:54pm

Awesome:

The world has witnessed an unprecedented popular action in the streets of Egypt. Led by Egypt’s youth, with their justified demands for more freedom, more democracy, lower prices for necessities and more employment opportunities. These youths demanded immediate and far-reaching changes. This was met by violent conflicts with the police, who were routed. The army was called in and was welcomed by the demonstrators, but initially their presence was more symbolic than active. Events deteriorated as lawless bands of thugs, and maybe agents provocateurs, appeared and looting began. The young people organized themselves into groups that directed traffic, protected neighborhoods and guarded public buildings of value such as the Egyptian Museum and the Library of Alexandria. They are collaborating with the army. This makeshift arrangement is in place until full public order returns.

The library is safe thanks to Egypt’s youth, whether they be the staff of the Library or the representatives of the demonstrators, who are joining us in guarding the building from potential vandals and looters. I am there daily within the bounds of the curfew hours. However, the Library will be closed to the public for the next few days until the curfew is lifted and events unfold towards an end to the lawlessness and a move towards the resolution of the political issues that triggered the demonstrations.
Ismail Serageldin
Librarian of Alexandria
Director of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina

[Link: www.bibalex.org...]

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:12:50pm

re: #2 SteelPH

How long before the humorless wingnuts take this as truth?

Well, Sue Myrick basically believes the 'posing as Mexicans' part.

13 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:12:55pm

Repost: Women of the Revolution

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:13:18pm

re: #3 Ojoe

They always drag in Santa Claus.

He was from Turkey, you know.

Probably a secret Muslim.

15 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:13:18pm
weddady weddady
Once Mubarak is out, the Mullahs in Tehran will be next god's willing :) #Jan25

and then this:

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Arabiya: Thousands of travelers at Cairo Airport complain of chaos in their flights home.


Well, DUH, ya think there will be chaos at the airport?

16 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:13:44pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

He was from Turkey, you know.

Probably a secret Muslim.

Aha!
So that's what harpy has against Santy!

18 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:15:10pm

oh pam

19 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:15:56pm

re: #17 000G

F16's. Lovely.

*headdesk*

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:16:34pm

Uh, it ends quite morbidly.

21 Michael McBacon  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:16:59pm

My favorite line:

"They are extremely dangerous in that they're very, very friendly."

22 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:17:39pm

re: #13 000G

Repost: Women of the Revolution

Some of Killgore's favorite types.

23 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:17:53pm

re: #20 Sergey Romanov

Uh, it ends quite morbidly.

What ends quite morbidly?

24 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:17:57pm

re: #19 Fozzie Bear

F16's. Lovely.

*headdesk*

That's some seriously bad PR for the US. Ugh.

25 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:18:24pm

re: #23 reine.de.tout

The clip.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:20:39pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

That's some seriously bad PR for the US. Ugh.

The whole world knows we've been paying Mubarak's power bill for decades. If they didn't, they should maybe pay some attention to world affairs.

27 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:20:43pm

the street leading to the ministry of interior

Youtube Video
28 Kid A  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:21:33pm

Rant, Harpy!

29 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:23:06pm

Wikipedia has updated the Death Toll. It now stands at 160 dead,among them 135 protesters, 12 policemen, 12 prisoners, and a Police Chief. 2,250 have been injured, consisting of 1,500 protesters, and 750 policemen.

30 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:23:57pm

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

The whole world knows we've been paying Mubarak's power bill for decades. If they didn't, they should maybe pay some attention to world affairs.

Which, IMHO, makes our sudden silence on his fall from grace all the more precarious. The longer we refuse to take a side, the more likely it is that somebody else will.

32 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:25:02pm

Ranting harpy rants.

33 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:26:05pm

re: #22 reine.de.tout

Some of Killgore's favorite types.

Love the one of the old woman kissing the helmeted policeman's cheek.
It just screams the tag line.... Mommmmmm... stop it!

34 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:26:27pm

re: #32 BigPapa

Ranting harpy rants.

But the caravan moves on.

35 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:33:14pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

That's some seriously bad PR for the US. Ugh.

When the protesters finally started taking bridges over the Nile I was just waiting for some American made hardware to buzz them..

36 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:34:11pm

Headline of the day?
John Boehner Defends Crying & Smoking

37 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:35:13pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Headline of the day?
John Boehner Defends Crying & Smoking

Wait, hasn't Obama been gettin' shit for awhile now about still smoking? Or am I misremembering again?

38 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:37:35pm

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

39 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:38:43pm

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

The whole world knows we've been paying Mubarak's power bill for decades. If they didn't, they should maybe pay some attention to world affairs.

Yeah, of course, it's just that nothing symbolizes American military involvement quite like a few of our fighter planes, as if the point needed to be driven home any more than it already has been.

40 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:39:34pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

They are made out to care about everything he does, as long as it pertains to irrelevant lifestyle topics and not matters of serious national policy.

41 reloadingisnotahobby  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:40:09pm

What's today's protest??
Come on ...I'm not getting up and dressed unless I know what to wear!!!
...HELLO??

42 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:41:23pm

re: #41 reloadingisnotahobby

What's today's protest??
Come on ...I'm not getting up and dressed unless I know what to wear!!!
...HELLO??

We are protesting protesters with a highly visible display of non-protestation.

43 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:42:40pm

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

We are protesting protesters with a highly visible display of non-protestation.

Brought to you by the Department Of Redundancy Department.

44 reloadingisnotahobby  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:42:41pm

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

So ....Robe and slippers will suffice....
...I'm working it baby.....

45 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:43:40pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

Been wondering that myself. Why on earth that ever became an issue. If he wants to smoke, then he is free to do so.
I am a fan of political correctness about as much as I am a fan of organized religion.

46 zora  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:43:41pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

only the ones that hate him.

47 ryannon  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:44:19pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

It depends on the brand.

48 zora  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:44:30pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Headline of the day?
John Boehner Defends Crying & Smoking

could care less about the smoking. the crying to me is just too much.

50 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:45:10pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, of course, it's just that nothing symbolizes American military involvement quite like a few of our fighter planes, as if the point needed to be driven home any more than it already has been.

There are not a whole lot of places for countries who do not produce fighter jets and the like to acquire them. All countries need to defend themselves.

51 reloadingisnotahobby  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:45:37pm

re: #47 ryannon

He smokes Cools with a "K" so it all cool........

52 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:46:55pm

re: #50 CapeCoddah

There are not a whole lot of places for countries who do not produce fighter jets and the like to acquire them. All countries need to defend themselves.

Needless to say, this is true. Fighter jets aren't exactly easy to build.

On CNN there is a story about a pair of F16's flying low over Cairo, back and forth over the city. The symbolism is unflattering to the US, is my point.

53 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:47:28pm

re: #52 Fozzie Bear

Needless to say, this is true. Fighter jets aren't exactly easy to build.

On CNN there is a story about a pair of F16's flying low over Cairo, back and forth over the city. The symbolism is unflattering to the US, is my point.

Oh, I agree, but, it simply cannot be helped.

54 reloadingisnotahobby  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:47:49pm

re: #48 zora

Seeing what's going on Washington could bring men to tears....
You didn't cry when you watched"Where the Red Fern Grows"??
...Really?

55 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:47:57pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

does the president actually care what the people eat?

57 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:49:18pm

DOWN WITH HEALTH!

58 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:52:37pm

re: #57 albusteve

DOWN WITH HEALTH!

Hey, how are things?
Didn't you have a graft done recently?

59 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:52:48pm

Several protestors focused on Ayman Nour, also Amr Moussa. Lots of criticism especially for ElBaradei.

60 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:53:39pm

re: #57 albusteve

speaking of health, Steve, How are you doing?

61 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:53:53pm

re: #56 000G

Wedeman's a damn good reporter.

62 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:53:53pm

re: #59 000G

Several protestors focused on Ayman Nour, also Amr Moussa. Lots of criticism especially for ElBaradei.

I'm seeing some twitter criticism of El Baradei as well.

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:53:59pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

Do people actually give a shit that the president smokes?

I don't want anyone to smoke. In Obama's case, he has small children, and is a role model for young black men. Even more reason not to.

However, being president is such a hell of a job that I find it hard to begrudge the man some smokes.

64 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:54:02pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Hey, how are things?
Didn't you have a graft done recently?

Feb 7....should be a piece of cake, couple of days in lockdown and presto!...all better!

65 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:55:05pm

re: #64 albusteve

Feb 7...should be a piece of cake, couple of days in lockdown and presto!...all better!

{{steve}}
I'll be hoping, praying, sending good vibes - think of it however you feel like it works best.

66 zora  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:55:20pm

re: #54 reloadingisnotahobby

Seeing what's going on Washington could bring men to tears...
You didn't cry when you watched"Where the Red Fern Grows"??
...Really?

yes i did. i also cry when i watch extreme home makeover. not the same. boener cries at the drop of a hat and it's not the preferred behavior for his position. he has an emotional problem imo.

67 reloadingisnotahobby  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:56:03pm

re: #64 albusteve

God Speed!!
Or...Good Luck!

68 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:56:08pm

re: #64 albusteve

What kind of a graft?
Or you can tell me none of my business!

69 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:56:33pm

re: #60 CapeCoddah

speaking of health, Steve, How are you doing?

I was just typing to ask you the very same...all's well, sort of....had my lower leg amputated back in Aug and I've been struggling ever since but I'll survive even if I'm a bit ornery about it....
how's thing on the Cape...well I hope

70 reloadingisnotahobby  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:57:30pm

re: #66 zora

True...some of the stories behind that show are heart wrenching!!!
Boener has some issues....

71 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:58:30pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

I'm seeing some twitter criticism of El Baradei as well.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Support for Ayman Nour and Amr Moussa. Lots of dissing towards ElBaradei ("opportunist, late-comer, US darling, MB darling", etc.)

72 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:59:35pm

re: #69 albusteve

I was just typing to ask you the very same...all's well, sort of...had my lower leg amputated back in Aug and I've been struggling ever since but I'll survive even if I'm a bit ornery about it...
how's thing on the Cape...well I hope

Oh, jeeze, Steve, I am sorry and I wish you the very best. Ornery is good, thats how you survive, stay ornery.
The Cape is good. Me, really depressed right now. Lost the boss on Thursday, and it is like being gut shot. His ornery got us 4 more years with him, though. Gotta hang onto that.

73 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:59:51pm

re: #68 CapeCoddah

What kind of a graft?
Or you can tell me none of my business!

skin graft...after 4 mo of healing, I had a wopper of an infection so they went back and sliced me open again for a revision, and the wouns has been open ever since....4mo down the shitter and I was pyst!....in a couple of months I should have a new phony leg...slow goin

74 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:59:58pm

re: #3 Ojoe

They always drag in Santa Claus.


Well, when they're not dragging in Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao.

75 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:00:43pm

re: #73 albusteve

You keep fighting.

76 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:01:33pm

re: #65 reine.de.tout


re: #70 reloadingisnotahobby

thanks, much appreciated

78 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:02:49pm

re: #75 CapeCoddah

You keep fighting.

yeah, time marches on, eh?

79 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:03:32pm

re: #78 albusteve

yeah, time marches on, eh?

No stopping it.

80 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:08:57pm

SNL makes fun of Hosni Mubarak

Youtube Video
81 ryannon  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:09:50pm

re: #70 reloadingisnotahobby

True...some of the stories behind that show are heart wrenching!!!
Boener has some issues...

I don't know how you people pronounce it, but if I had a name like that I'd have issues too.

82 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:09:54pm

re: #51 reloadingisnotahobby

He smokes Cools with a "K" so it all cool...

Camel Lights actually.

83 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:09:58pm

Thousands of people in Jordan have taken to the streets in protests, demanding the country's prime minister step down, and the government curb rising prices, inflation and unemployment

Jordan, probably the most stable and least repressive Muslim country in the ME...makes you wonder if people know the limits any govt has on market prices and inflation...the only beef I've ever had with Jordan is their refusal to step up and help deal with the Pali issue, but it's more than likely way too late for that now

[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

84 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:11:16pm

re: #81 ryannon

I don't know how you people pronounce it, but if I had a name like that I'd have issues too.

Bay-ner-ru-ski
get with it

85 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:12:15pm

re: #13 000G

Repost: Women of the Revolution

Image: pb-110128-egypt-unrest-kiss-ps.photoblog900.jpg

"OK, Mom. I love you too. Yes, I know it's Grandma's birhtday; I won't forget to call her. You gotta go now, Mom, my shift starts in 5 minutes. What? Yes, I'm sure the lunch you packed for me will be delicious as always. Mom, please! I'm on duty here, seriously."

86 Jaerik  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:15:27pm

re: #3 Ojoe

They always drag in Santa Claus.

At risk of sounding like I'm taking a swipe at religion in general, these guys' interpretation of the ultimate role of God is pretty similar in general.

87 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:16:05pm

re: #85 negativ

Image: pb-110128-egypt-unrest-kiss-ps.photoblog900.jpg

"OK, Mom. I love you too. Yes, I know it's Grandma's birhtday; I won't forget to call her. You gotta go now, Mom, my shift starts in 5 minutes. What? Yes, I'm sure the lunch you packed for me will be delicious as always. Mom, please! I'm on duty here, seriously."

LOL... You said it much better than I did in my #33

88 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:18:21pm

not sure what's been posted...had to entertain my laundry girls

In the streets of Cairo, many protesters are now openly denouncing the United States for supporting President Hosni Mubarak, saying the price has been their freedom. They say the Obama administration has offered only tepid criticism of a regime that has received billions of dollars in U.S. aid.

bullshit...$1.6b in US aid has almost entirely been spent on military affairs...these people are just passing the blame off to the Great Satan for their own weaknesses....to my knowledge the US has never impressed on Mu how to treat his own citizens

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

89 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:18:50pm

I decided to check in and see what's going on at DailyKos.
Now I remember why I quit going there.

91 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:21:10pm

re: #89 Conservative Moonbat

I decided to check in and see what's going on at DailyKos.
Now I remember why I quit going there.

I saw that earlier. The Lefty sites are also gushing with love and praise for the Muslim Brotherhood. Fools.

92 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:22:45pm

re: #85 negativ

Image: pb-110128-egypt-unrest-kiss-ps.photoblog900.jpg

"OK, Mom. I love you too. Yes, I know it's Grandma's birhtday; I won't forget to call her. You gotta go now, Mom, my shift starts in 5 minutes. What? Yes, I'm sure the lunch you packed for me will be delicious as always. Mom, please! I'm on duty here, seriously."

Stop it, you're embarrassing me in front of the guys!

93 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:23:02pm

re: #89 Conservative Moonbat

I decided to check in and see what's going on at DailyKos.
Now I remember why I quit going there.

'Screw them.'

94 zora  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:23:14pm

re: #89 Conservative Moonbat

I decided to check in and see what's going on at DailyKos.
Now I remember why I quit going there.

99% of the commenters are either asking for a link or calling bullshit. anyone can put up a diary.

95 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:23:36pm

re: #88 albusteve

not sure what's been posted...had to entertain my laundry girls

In the streets of Cairo, many protesters are now openly denouncing the United States for supporting President Hosni Mubarak, saying the price has been their freedom. They say the Obama administration has offered only tepid criticism of a regime that has received billions of dollars in U.S. aid.

bullshit...$1.6b in US aid has almost entirely been spent on military affairs...these people are just passing the blame off to the Great Satan for their own weaknesses...to my knowledge the US has never impressed on Mu how to treat his own citizens

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Egyptian citizens have been handed over for 'enhanced interragations' Mubarak style if I'm not mistaken. Might not be telling him how to run his shop but it sure seems like we didn't mind.

96 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:23:39pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I saw that earlier. The Lefty sites are also gushing with love and praise for the Muslim Brotherhood. Fools.

only a repression oriented monger would support the MB, or idealistic children...I suppose the KosKids are pretty idealistic, and not to ba taken too seriously

97 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:23:51pm

re: #89 Conservative Moonbat

I decided to check in and see what's going on at DailyKos.
Now I remember why I quit going there.

The perennial puke-inducer, The Daily Kos.

98 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:23:59pm

re: #88 albusteve

not sure what's been posted...had to entertain my laundry girls

In the streets of Cairo, many protesters are now openly denouncing the United States for supporting President Hosni Mubarak, saying the price has been their freedom. They say the Obama administration has offered only tepid criticism of a regime that has received billions of dollars in U.S. aid.

Gday albusteve,

Do you think the above statement is wrong?

99 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:24:14pm

re: #89 Conservative Moonbat

I decided to check in and see what's going on at DailyKos.
Now I remember why I quit going there.

The first 12 kos commenters call "bullshit".

100 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:24:50pm

re: #95 McSpiff

Egyptian citizens have been handed over for 'enhanced interragations' Mubarak style if I'm not mistaken.

Yup. And the new VP Mubarak installed had been authorizing it.

101 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:24:58pm

re: #89 Conservative Moonbat

Ah yes the Kos meme
The west/US is always wrong. And on those few occasions when it is right, the motivation is wrong. The George Galloway theory of politics.

102 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:25:58pm

Looks a pattern to be played out in quite a few places:

Leading Tunisian Islamist returns from exile

Rachid Ghannouchi, seen as a moderate, says he supports democracy and social justice

TUNIS — The leader of a long-outlawed Tunisian Islamist party returned home Sunday after two decades in exile, telling The Associated Press in his first interview on arrival that his views are moderate and that his Westward-looking country has nothing to fear.

Rachid Ghanouchi and about 70 other exiled members of Ennahdha, or Renaissance, flew home from Britain two weeks after autocratic President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali was forced from power by violent protests. At the airport, thousands of people welcomed him, cheering, shouting "God is great!" and drowning out his attempt to address the crowd with a megaphone.

Ghanouchi rejected any comparison to more radical figures, including the hardline father of the Iranian Revolution.

"Some Western media portray me like (Ayatollah Ruhollah) Khomeini, but that's not me," Rachid Ghanouchi told the AP.

[...]

During 23 years in power, Tunisia's ousted president cracked down on opponents, including proponents of political Islam, jailing them and sending many into exile. As Tunisians protests over corruption and repression, Ben Ali fled to Saudi Arabia on Jan. 14.

With Ben Ali gone, Ennahdha has moved quickly to carve out a place in the political scene, taking part in demonstrations and meeting with the prime minister.

Some Tunisians fear that a revival of Islam could hurt their hard-won gains and quality of life, or inspire an extremist movement like the al-Qaida-linked network that has waged an insurgency in neighboring Algeria.

But, while Ennahdha was branded an Islamic terrorist group by Ben Ali, it is considered moderate by scholars. Experts say Ben Ali used a fear of Islamists to seduce Western allies keen for a bulwark against terrorism in a volatile region, and win their blessing despite widespread repression.

[...]

Ghanouchi said he seeks to reinforce women's rights set out by Tunisia's Westward-looking modern-day founder, Habib Bourguiba. In 1956, Tunisia abolished polygamy and gave women the right to divorce their husbands. Ghanouchi said his party still supports that historic turning point, along with freedom of religion.

"So why are (certain) women afraid of me?" Ghanouchi said. In a reference to Muslim headscarves, he also asked: "Why don't 'liberated' women defend the right of other women to wear what they want?"

Asked about his view on abortion, he dodged the question, saying the issue was complicated.

MSNBC Video
103 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:26:10pm

re: #95 McSpiff

Egyptian citizens have been handed over for 'enhanced interragations' Mubarak style if I'm not mistaken. Might not be telling him how to run his shop but it sure seems like we didn't mind.

our business with Egypt starts and ends with the CD Accords...why should we interfere with their day to day activities?

104 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:27:12pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I saw that earlier. The Lefty sites are also gushing with love and praise for the Muslim Brotherhood. Fools.

Made me think of this...
Many years ago, Indian youths would go away in solitude to prepare for manhood. One such youth hiked into a beautiful valley, green with trees, bright with flowers. There he fasted. But on the third day, as he looked up at the surrounding mountains, he noticed one tall rugged peak capped with dazzling snow.

I will test myself against that mountain, he thought. He put on his buffalo hide shirt, threw his blanket over his shoulders and set off to climb the peak

When he reached the top he stood at the rim of the world. He could see forever, and his heart swelled with pride. Then he heard a rustle at his feet, and looking down, he saw a snake. Before he could move, the snake spoke: ‘I am about to die, said the snake. "It is too cold for me up here and I am freezing. There is no food and I am starving. Put me under your shirt and take me down to the valley."

"No," said the youth. "I am forewarned, I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. if pick you up, you will bite, and your bite will kill me."

"Not so," said the snake. "I will treat you differently. If you will do this for me, you will be special. I will not harm you."

The youth resisted awhile, but this was a very persuasive snake with beautiful markings. At last the youth tucked it under his shirt and carried it down to the valley. There be laid it gently on the grass, when suddenly the snake coiled, rattled and leapt, biting him on the leg.

"But you promised," cried the youth.

‘You knew what I was when you picked me up," said the snake as it slithered away.

Here's the lesson --- Free yourself from the hope that the snake really won't bite you. He will. You knew he was a snake when you picked him up. The sooner you put him down, the better off you'll be. You'll also be safer and happier.

105 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:27:14pm

Volleys of gunfire ringing out over #Cairo right now. Sounds like area near Interior Ministry? Another sleepless night for #Egypt

106 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:27:38pm

There's more to what's going on in Egypt than the usual Muslim Brother talking points. Would be nice if the USA took a back seat for once and stopped meddling in the affairs of other countries. They can start by throwing Mubarak under the bus which is going to happen anyway.

107 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:28:17pm

re: #98 ozbloke

no, the statement is informing the reader what is observed

108 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:28:39pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

The first 12 kos commenters call "bullshit".

I didn't get that far. There have been things not much worse than that that have gotten by with little disagreement lately.

109 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:28:45pm

re: #103 albusteve

our business with Egypt starts and ends with the CD Accords...why should we interfere with their day to day activities?

Except that isn't true. The anti-terrorism cooperation goes far beyond anything in CD. They're two orthogonal issues. We got our fingers in a whole lot more pies post 9/11.

110 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:28:50pm

Obama's "Shah Problem" (Slate)

President Barack Obama has a "Shah problem" in Egypt. Recent events in Egypt recall the street protests of 1978 in Tehran when President Jimmy Carter had to decide whether to remain loyal to the Pahlavi regime, a long-standing American-backed dictatorship—or whether the time had come to abandon the Shah and support a popular uprising demanding human rights and democracy. Carter tried to have it both ways, modulating his support for the Shah, calling for political liberalization, and warning the Shah against the use of state violence against unarmed protesters. Obama seems to be following the same script, and the results may well turn out to be equally fraught with unintended consequences.

111 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:29:37pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I saw that earlier. The Lefty sites are also gushing with love and praise for the Muslim Brotherhood. Fools.

Do you have some links?

112 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:29:59pm

re: #96 albusteve

re: #97 Winny Spencer

re: #101 Rightwingconspirator

Look at the comments. The Kos crowd isn't buying it either. And it's a diary, not actual DKos material.

113 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:30:17pm

re: #106 Gus 802

There's more to what's going on in Egypt than the usual Muslim Brother talking points. Would be nice if the USA took a back seat for once and stopped meddling in the affairs of other countries. They can start by throwing Mubarak under the bus which is going to happen anyway.

seems smart...I don't know why more is expected of BO

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:30:19pm

Arab Elite Say Monarchies Are Safe From Unrest (NYT)

Few of the executives present expected a revolution to spread across the oil-rich nations of the Gulf, where the governments are monarchies, which often do not create the types of expectations that accompany a democracy.

Rulers in these countries use their oil wealth to invest in social stability by ensuring that their own people lead comfortable lives through subsidies on things like electricity, education and food.

“Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries are going to be spared because they are not democratic regimes,” said Jamal Khashoggi, the general manager of Al Waleed 24 News Channel. People in those countries “don’t feel cheated because there are no elections,” he said.

By contrast, he said, “I can feel the agony of an Egyptian when he sees how democracy is mocked.”

115 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:30:24pm

re: #107 albusteve

no, the statement is informing the reader what is observed

Then why did you call it bullshit?
Or am I mistaken?
Your #88

116 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:31:03pm

Guardian reporting:

Shots sound like they are coming from the east of the city, Peter Beaumont says. Tracer rounds from heavy calibre weapons suggest they are military. Bursts from the direction of the airport and Heliopolis – where the presidential palace is located. Tanks seen moving fast eastwards.
117 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:31:09pm

re: #110 000G

Obama's "Shah Problem" (Slate)

Hey, uh, Slate?
Look up the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.

118 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:31:32pm

The "Clash of Civilizations" or whatever they wanna call it is not about Islam vs. Christianity: it is about fundamentalism vs. enlightenment.

Granted, fundamentalism has a much tighter hold on Islam than it does on Christianity, it is present in both religions

Ms Geller seems to think that American Muslims are required to be out openly protesting for reform or something...Obviously, just living peaceful, law-abiding lives here is not good enough for her.

119 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:31:50pm

re: #110 000G

Jeez, that is eerily similar indeed.

120 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:32:03pm

re: #109 McSpiff

Except that isn't true. The anti-terrorism cooperation goes far beyond anything in CD. They're two orthogonal issues. We got our fingers in a whole lot more pies post 9/11.

alright...so you think the US admin should shoulder the blame for Mu's repression...I don't

121 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:32:09pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I saw that earlier. The Lefty sites are also gushing with love and praise for the Muslim Brotherhood. Fools.

I agree. The idea that these revolutions are going to lead to anything but more Islamic Theocratic states is absurd. Western liberalism isn't going to move in. For the most part that's what's being kicked out because it's become so corrupt. The Islamic states might be more economically socialist but I wouldn't call them social progress.

122 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:32:23pm

re: #108 Conservative Moonbat

I didn't get that far. There have been things not much worse than that that have gotten by with little disagreement lately.

The diaries are often wrongheaded, the frontpage material there is more or less OK.

123 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:32:39pm

more jet fighters over tahrir square

Youtube Video
124 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:33:01pm

re: #112 Fozzie Bear

Fine, lets see if it gets deleted.

125 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:33:17pm

re: #117 Varek Raith

Hey, uh, Slate?
Look up the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.

Just because it didn't work in 1978 doesn't mean it wasn't exactly the right approach to take to the problem. The writer of that article would do well to remember that you can make all the right moves and shit will sometimes still hit the fan. That's just how it goes.

That doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. It just didn't work out.

126 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:34:05pm

re: #120 albusteve

alright...so you think the US admin should shoulder the blame for Mu's repression...I don't

That's not what I'm saying in the least. But when the rubber hit the road the US admin couldn't give a rat's ass about democracy and human rights. They were happy to use the infrastructure Mu had put in place.

If you play in shit, don't be surprised when you end up smelling bad.

127 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:34:06pm

re: #124 Rightwingconspirator

It gets deleted if the author deletes it.

128 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:34:32pm

When a single dictatorial regime is in power for decades, any sort of moderate opposition is crushed, co-opted, driven underground, or into exile. That is what we witnessed in Iran, and we are still paying for the mistake of installing and supporting the Shah.

We seem to be on the verge of making the same mistake in Egypt.

129 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:34:40pm

re: #124 Rightwingconspirator

Fine, lets see if it gets deleted.

I don't think it works that way. Diaries are more or less the responsibility of the poster. Kos doesn't moderate them unless they go WAY over the line. Simply fabricating things isn't far enough to invoke a response from Kos.

130 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:34:52pm

re: #115 ozbloke

Then why did you call it bullshit?
Or am I mistaken?
Your #88

because I can...what are you trying to pin on me?....the guy see's something I don't agree with....whether in fact what he see's is true is not a fact....just a bunch of people chanting in the streets

131 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:35:07pm

re: #123 000G

more jet fighters over tahrir square

[Video]

I saw another video earlier. They're a lot higher than reported. One report claimed they could see the cockpit "instruments". Unlikely considering the building obstacles. Anywho, all of those flybys are clearly meant to intimidate. That's about all they're limited to because any "strafing runs" against the crowd would be immediate political suicide for Mubarak.

133 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:35:55pm

re: #131 Gus 802

I saw another video earlier. They're a lot higher than reported. One report claimed they could see the cockpit "instruments". Unlikely considering the building obstacles. Anywho, all of those flybys are clearly meant to intimidate. That's about all they're limited to because any "strafing runs" against the crowd would be immediate political suicide for Mubarak.

Political suicide seems to be the only aptitude Mubarak has shown this entire time.

134 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:36:00pm

re: #124 Rightwingconspirator

Fine, lets see if it gets deleted.


yo!...takin bets?

135 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:36:27pm

re: #129 Fozzie Bear
"Simply fabricating things isn't far enough to invoke a response from Kos."
You don't have a problem with that? Simply fabricating? Lying, you mean?

136 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:37:00pm

re: #134 albusteve

yo!...takin bets?

One shouldn't bet either way until one learns the moderation rules there.

137 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:37:25pm

A California man is in jail on a terrorism charge after he was arrested in Dearborn for allegedly trying to blow up the biggest mosque in metro Detroit, Dearborn officials said today.

[Link: www.freep.com...]

138 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:37:40pm

re: #133 McSpiff

Political suicide seems to be the only aptitude Mubarak has shown this entire time.

True, his days are numbered. But using the air force against the protesters would have an immediate effect.

139 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:17pm

re: #135 CapeCoddah

"Simply fabricating things isn't far enough to invoke a response from Kos."
You don't have a problem with that? Simply fabricating? Lying, you mean?

I never said I don't have a problem with that diary. It's just that it isn't representative of DKos's front page content. It's like an LGF page, except on a much larger website, with far more diaries.

They don't moderate diaries because it would be impractical to do so.

140 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:27pm

re: #135 CapeCoddah

"Simply fabricating things isn't far enough to invoke a response from Kos."
You don't have a problem with that? Simply fabricating? Lying, you mean?

If all internet fabrications were deleted, there'd be a lot more bandwidth for boob pun threads.

141 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:28pm

re: #136 Sergey Romanov

One shouldn't bet either way until one learns the moderation rules there.

So much easier to simply assume intent.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:29pm

re: #137 Stanley Sea

A California man is in jail on a terrorism charge after he was arrested in Dearborn for allegedly trying to blow up the biggest mosque in metro Detroit, Dearborn officials said today.

[Link: www.freep.com...]

California exports nuts to the world!!

//Dangit

143 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:43pm

re: #137 Stanley Sea

A California man is in jail on a terrorism charge after he was arrested in Dearborn for allegedly trying to blow up the biggest mosque in metro Detroit, Dearborn officials said today.

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Charles cleared that up... Roman candles and firecrackers are not going to blow up much ut a mailbox.

144 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:56pm

State of emergency in Libya?

[Link: bleacherreport.com...]

145 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:57pm

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

Certainly Markos or his monitors have that option as well, just like Charles and his monitors do here.

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:04pm

re: #135 CapeCoddah

"Simply fabricating things isn't far enough to invoke a response from Kos."
You don't have a problem with that? Simply fabricating? Lying, you mean?

The responsibility is on the diarist. However, if (s)he gets enough hide ratings, it will probably cause an autoban (though not a diary deletion).

147 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:10pm

re: #125 Fozzie Bear

That doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. It just didn't work out.

A bit of an understatement?

It wasn't an isolated situation - it was part of a long-standing pattern of the U.S., and Britain previously, siding with oppressive autocrats in the ME - primarily because of oil. One could certainly argue that such policies laid the groundwork for extremists to be able capitalize on resentment.

148 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:28pm

re: #139 Fozzie Bear

Hmmm, I would find the time if my name were on the front page.

149 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:37pm

re: #125 Fozzie Bear

Just because it didn't work in 1978 doesn't mean it wasn't exactly the right approach to take to the problem. The writer of that article would do well to remember that you can make all the right moves and shit will sometimes still hit the fan. That's just how it goes.

That doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. It just didn't work out.

I was just pointing out that the situations of '78 Iran and Egypt now are a bit different.

150 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:39pm

re: #130 albusteve

because I can...what are you trying to pin on me?...the guy see's something I don't agree with...whether in fact what he see's is true is not a fact...just a bunch of people chanting in the streets

I'm not trying to pin anything on you, I'm asking you why you think this:

bullshit...$1.6b in US aid has almost entirely been spent on military affairs...these people are just passing the blame off to the Great Satan for their own weaknesses...to my knowledge the US has never impressed on Mu how to treat his own citizens

The USA knowingly gives funds to a country that oppresses its people.
And the people of that country are to blame because they are weak?

Can you help me understand that?

151 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:41pm

re: #137 Stanley Sea

If I'm not mistaken, that may be the largest Mosque in the US too.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

152 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:39:54pm

re: #126 McSpiff

That's not what I'm saying in the least. But when the rubber hit the road the US admin couldn't give a rat's ass about democracy and human rights. They were happy to use the Mu had put in place.

If you play in shit, don't be surprised when you end up smelling bad.


who says they were happy?...show me
we have tried to help protect Israel...the Accords have nothing to do with Mubarak....this entire issue is ridiculously over analyzed...every pres since Carter has inherited this situation....it doesn't mean they all supported repression...too many people looking for dirt here and they all trip over themselves

153 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:40:04pm

re: #150 ozbloke

USA = good. Questions?

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:40:23pm

re: #145 Rightwingconspirator

Certainly Markos or his monitors have that option as well, just like Charles and his monitors do here.

Yes, but their rules are different. The diary may get deleted, but if it's not, it in no way shows solidarity. It is also clear that the community there completely rejected the content of the diary.

155 justaminute  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:41:25pm

I can't stick around to defend this post, husbands coming to take me shopping before bad weather hits, but I throw it out there anyway. After traveling through the ME and seeing how hungry their people are for jobs, education, and a more prosperous future, I can't help but wonder if the US government aligns with some governments to help keep other people out of the competition for limited resources. China and India rising, a ME rising up that has oil, which would give them a serious leg up over us, sits me to thinking.

In the ME parents are extremely like those "Tiger Moms" in China. I had to clamp down a time or two on my husband but that was the way he was raised. All our friends that are Iranian-American consider that a BS in college is the least that their children could do. Hard to argue with all the doctors, engineers, etc. Now it's has become a master's degree is a minimum. I think about this a lot.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:41:32pm

re: #143 CapeCoddah

Charles cleared that up... Roman candles and firecrackers are not going to blow up much ut a mailbox.

So was he too crazy or stupid to know that?

Was it a dry run?

Was it meant to be suicide by cop?

Not clear to me what's going on there.

157 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:41:43pm

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

The responsibility is on the diarist. However, if (s)he gets enough hide ratings, it will probably cause an autoban (though not a diary deletion).

Beg to differ. The name up front is responsible for the material posted on the site. That simply means Kos has no respect for truth vs. lie and his own reputation because of his lack of respect for the truth. The end does NOT justify the means.

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:42:04pm

re: #144 000G

State of emergency in Libya?

[Link: bleacherreport.com...]

Libya IS a State of Emergency.

//Sorry, too much Middle Eastern politics makes me go loopy.

159 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:42:10pm

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

I must defer there, I am not terribly familiar with the rules at Kos, apart from the fact that truther posts get ya banned.

160 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:42:15pm

re: #134 albusteve

yo!...takin bets?

What's the over/under of it making the Recommended list?

161 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:42:16pm

re: #136 Sergey Romanov

One shouldn't bet either way until one learns the moderation rules there.

wtf is that supposed to mean?...if you are serious, you are in way to deep

162 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:42:23pm

re: #152 albusteve

who says they were happy?...show me
we have tried to help protect Israel...the Accords have nothing to do with Mubarak...this entire issue is ridiculously over analyzed...every pres since Carter has inherited this situation...it doesn't mean they all supported repression...too many people looking for dirt here and they all trip over themselves

And I'm not talking about CD. For the third time. If you think CD now defines US-Egyptian relations you're about a decade out of date.

163 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:42:53pm

re: #55 albusteve

does the president actually care what the people eat?

No, as long as you don't eat all you want, so other countries will say "OK."

—Some campaign speech, in Oregon I think it was.

It is all comedy anymore,

anything else is too painful.

164 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:43:05pm

re: #138 Gus 802

True, his days are numbered. But using the air force against the protesters would have an immediate effect.

cluster bombs not cool?

165 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:43:25pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

I was just pointing out that the situations of '78 Iran and Egypt now are a bit different.

Obviously. But in either case, if you aren't going to send a shitload of troops in, it doesn't make sense to pick a side and start vocally advocating. It's as likely to blow up in your face as it is to help the situation.

The BEST thing Obama can do right now is be vague and noncommittal. We are out an ally if we back the protesters and Mubarak prevails, and we are out a potential ally if we back Mubarak and the revolution succeeds. In either case, it's not just Egypt watching us closely. The rest of our allies are wondering what will make us throw them under the bus.

This is an extremely delicate situation, and it is developing very fast. Obama would be a moron if he came out and started calling for Mubarak's ouster.

166 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:44:21pm

re: #148 CapeCoddah

Hmmm, I would find the time if my name were on the front page.

Really? I bet you can find quite a few LGF pages that support a point of view that's wildly erroneous or based on a fabrication. I'm sure Charles does what he can, but what matters most is A) what Charles posts and B) how the community responds.

In this case, on KOS, most of the responses were highly negative to the asinine diary.

That should be seen as a good thing, not a bad thing.

167 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:44:23pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

How about simply, it is what it is.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:44:24pm

re: #157 CapeCoddah

Beg to differ. The name up front is responsible for the material posted on the site.


No, you're wrong. No more than Charles is responsible for your comment. It only works with stuff like incitement to murder, etc.

That simply means Kos has no respect for truth vs. lie and his own reputation because of his lack of respect for the truth. The end does NOT justify the means.

No, it doesn't mean anything like that.

169 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:44:27pm

re: #165 Fozzie Bear

The BEST thing Obama can do right now is be vague and noncommittal.

OK

170 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:44:33pm

re: #162 McSpiff

And I'm not talking about CD. For the third time. If you think CD now defines US-Egyptian relations you're about a decade out of date.

now?...when is now?...say whatever is on your mind, like how exactly have we supported repression in Egypt

171 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:45:03pm

re: #157 CapeCoddah

Beg to differ. The name up front is responsible for the material posted on the site. That simply means Kos has no respect for truth vs. lie and his own reputation because of his lack of respect for the truth. The end does NOT justify the means.

lol

Have fun policing the internet.

172 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:45:08pm

re: #137 Stanley Sea

"Youse guys better reform sour religion like Ms Geller says or I'm blowin' youse all sky-high!!!"

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:45:10pm

re: #161 albusteve

wtf is that supposed to mean?...if you are serious, you are in way to deep

If you learn the moderation rules there you will know that stuff is rarely deleted, even if one is banned for it. So there is no need to "bet".

174 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:45:18pm

re: #164 albusteve

cluster bombs not cool?

Nope. Right now Mubarak can basically leave Egypt leaving his "post" and live out the rest of his life in peace. Any use of force would make him a war criminal.

175 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:45:34pm

re: #153 McSpiff

USA = good. Questions?

Yes, I'm sure just a thread or so ago I saw, the Egyptians could have any leader as long as we approve.

176 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:46:03pm

re: #163 Ojoe

No, as long as you don't eat all you want, so other countries will say "OK."

—Some campaign speech, in Oregon I think it was.

It is all comedy anymore,

anything else is too painful.

I'm not impressed with either he and his wife with their nanny diet or people dissin him for smoking...I prefer to mind my own damned business when at all possible

177 bratwurst  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:46:08pm

re: #163 Ojoe

No, as long as you don't eat all you want, so other countries will say "OK."

—Some campaign speech, in Oregon I think it was.


Care to link that?

178 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:46:09pm

re: #170 albusteve

now?...when is now?...say whatever is on your mind, like how exactly have we supported repression in Egypt

I have, you aren't listening. If you turn people over to be tortured you support repression in Egypt, full stop.

179 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:46:31pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Really? I bet you can find quite a few LGF pages that support a point of view that's wildly erroneous or based on a fabrication. I'm sure Charles does what he can, but what matters most is A) what Charles posts and B) how the community responds.

In this case, on KOS, most of the responses were highly negative to the asinine diary.

That should be seen as a good thing, not a bad thing.

What matters most is and always has been the truth.

180 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:46:41pm

Abrams tank.

Image: 999x.jpg

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:47:00pm

re: #179 CapeCoddah

What matters most is and always has been the truth.

Um. So?

182 kirkspencer  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:47:00pm

From a friend's email, sharing with permission. (Friend is in a position that makes this likely to be good info -- ymmv.)

Just spent 30 minutes via Skype-Out to a land line in Egypt talking with a friend/coworker. He and family have been living in Egypt for almost 20 years - in Maadi, the suburb on the south side of Cairo where the American school is and USAID, and therefore, many expats - particularly from the US. In the absence of police presence, the neighbors have developed "block watches" to limit traffic and protect property. There has been nothing significant in Maadi - local neighborhood grocery stores are open and stocked, water and electricity are on, etc.

The primary concern is not the protesters, but the lawlessness and resulting looters, etc. Most everyone is "in tune" with the Egyptian populace cause - i.e., getting rid of the current government under Mubarak. Some business interests are supporting their employees and dependents leaving - Coke, British Petroleum, US Embassy (dependents), etc. There is general support for Muhammed El-Baradai being the spokesperson for the "opposition" - this includes, BUT IS NOT DOMINATED BY, the Muslim Brotherhood - there are MANY political factions/parties in Egypt. Incidentally, this round of protests seems to be equally supported throughout "Egypt" - Muslim/Christian, young/old, employed/unemployed, poor/rich(perhaps not the "proletariat"...), etc.

As I said before - the potential looming issue is whether this spills into Gaza or other parts of the Middle East. In that regard, I have also communicated with a coworker in Jordan. Not much going on there, all are "watching" Egypt. BUT, the government of Jordan is SIGNIFICANTLY more in tune with its population, not to mention significantly more modern and intelligent, etc.

183 Lidane  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:47:17pm

re: #157 CapeCoddah

Beg to differ. The name up front is responsible for the material posted on the site.

So Charles is responsible for every Page and every comment that gets posted here? I would think that the responsibility lies with the individual poster and/or commenter.

Same goes for Kos. Markos shouldn't be held responsible for some gibbering idiot posting a completely insane diary. Its' a consequence of allowing your users to post their own content.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:47:51pm

re: #167 CapeCoddah

How about simply, it is what it is.

I'm not sure what it is, aside from a really poorly planned attempt at a hate crime.

185 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:47:57pm

re: #173 Sergey Romanov

If you learn the moderation rules there you will know that stuff is rarely deleted, even if one is banned for it. So there is no need to "bet".

it's casual small talk....go take a bath or something

186 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:48:09pm

re: #166 Obdicut

The negative reaction is a good thing. A deletion of that diary would be an even better thing.

187 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:48:20pm

re: #179 CapeCoddah

What matters most is and always has been the truth.

That's pablum. What we're talking about is the practicality of policing every diary at DKOS or every page posted at LGF. I think it's wiser to err on the side of allowing people to post, and the community to respond, then making sure every post is 'the truth'.

In this case, the truth was in the responses to the article on DKOS. I don't understand why it's being seen as bad that the diary exists, when if you read the diary, it has loads of people attacking it.

188 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:48:39pm

re: #177 bratwurst

Sure.

189 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:48:58pm

re: #168 Sergey Romanov

No, you're wrong. No more than Charles is responsible for your comment. It only works with stuff like incitement to murder, etc.

No, it doesn't mean anything like that.

Actually, it does. Charles takes responsibility, from what I have seen, for the content of his site very seriously, which is why this is where I go when I blog.
Charles does not allow lies to push one side or another. He is fair and truthful. We agree to disagree on whether it means anything like that.

190 fizzlogic  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:48:59pm

Brook Alvarez is hawt!

191 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:49:00pm

re: #180 Gus 802

Abrams tank.

Image: 999x.jpg

Image: 595disappointed3if8.jpg

192 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:49:05pm

re: #186 Rightwingconspirator

The negative reaction is a good thing. A deletion of that diary would be an even better thing.

Why?

193 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:49:31pm

re: #187 Obdicut

That's pablum. What we're talking about is the practicality of policing every diary at DKOS or every page posted at LGF. I think it's wiser to err on the side of allowing people to post, and the community to respond, then making sure every post is 'the truth'.

In this case, the truth was in the responses to the article on DKOS. I don't understand why it's being seen as bad that the diary exists, when if you read the diary, it has loads of people attacking it.

Seriously, you'd think people never read the bottom 10 comments here. Charles has no problem allowing people to make complete asses out of themselves.

194 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:49:40pm

re: #188 Ojoe

You just linked to deluded wingnut central. lolololol

195 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:49:40pm

re: #170 albusteve

now?...when is now?...say whatever is on your mind, like how exactly have we supported repression in Egypt

We send them a couple billion a year--our #2 foreign aid recipient. Could be that we do it to keep them from being worse, but it's easy to see that as blanket approval.

196 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:49:51pm

re: #191 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Image: 595disappointed3if8.jpg

Russian Mi-17...

Image: 999x.jpg

F-16 in the background.

197 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:50:06pm

re: #180 Gus 802

Abrams tank.

Image: 999x.jpg

Whoops, how'd that get there???
/

198 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:50:09pm

re: #174 Gus 802

Nope. Right now Mubarak can basically leave Egypt leaving his "post" and live out the rest of his life in peace. Any use of force would make him a war criminal.

the net has not encircled him tightly enough....he's just dicking around seeing what he's got left....he's booked out of town and his finances are set...I doubt he'd risk all the cool perks people have probably been offering him...the Riviera sound good?

199 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:50:18pm

re: #193 McSpiff

Seriously, you'd think people never read the bottom 10 comments here. Charles has no problem allowing people to make complete asses out of themselves.

*couGordongh*

200 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:50:29pm

Note that I myself am unhappy with what I've read at Kos and how the people there responded, I've posted about it here (it was about Paul Robeson's hardcore Stalinism and many Kossacks' dismissal of it). Yesterday the had this woo-woo diary about caveman diet on their recommended diaries list (although a rebuttal diary also was there). DKos is a mixture of moderate to far left, so the ugliness of some on the far left sometimes shows.

201 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:50:30pm

re: #189 CapeCoddah

Actually, it does. Charles takes responsibility, from what I have seen, for the content of his site very seriously, which is why this is where I go when I blog.
Charles does not allow lies to push one side or another. He is fair and truthful. We agree to disagree on whether it means anything like that.

Charles doesn't have a tenth of the regular posters that Kos has. There is an order of magnitude of difference.

202 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:50:42pm

re: #181 Sergey Romanov

Um. So?

That particular type of lie propels virulent hatred against Jews. Why do you think it is OK to do that to Jews?

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:51:02pm

re: #200 Sergey Romanov

Note that I myself am unhappy with some of what I've read at Kos and how the people there responded, I've posted about it here (it was about Paul Robeson's hardcore Stalinism and many Kossacks' dismissal of it). Yesterday the had this woo-woo diary about caveman diet on their recommended diaries list (although a rebuttal diary also was there). DKos is a mixture of moderate to far left, so the ugliness of some on the far left sometimes shows.

204 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:51:23pm

re: #197 Varek Raith

Whoops, how'd that get there???
/

"Dude, where's my M1A1?"

205 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:51:31pm

re: #202 CapeCoddah

That particular type of lie propels virulent hatred against Jews. Why do you think it is OK to do that to Jews?

No, it doesn't. It just makes the poster look like an ass. Seriously, read the comments.

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:51:31pm

re: #202 CapeCoddah

That particular type of lie propels virulent hatred against Jews. Why do you think it is OK to do that to Jews?

Bye.

207 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:51:44pm

re: #186 Rightwingconspirator

The negative reaction is a good thing. A deletion of that diary would be an even better thing.

Perhaps, but not until the poster has been challenged and held up to scorn.

208 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:51:45pm

What I find interesting is that anyone would pick a diary from the Dailykos, were most of the comments were in disagreement, and need to somehow make it characteristic of "the left" in a larger sense.

It's really pathetic. A completely lame argument from top to bottom. It strongly suggests desperation. The interesting question is why someone would be so desperate.

My guess is a need to establish a false equivalency, say, with major Republican Party leaders making extremist statements over and over. Or with major "conservative" media outlets doing the same in their most representative prime time programs.

209 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:52:22pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Russian Mi-17...

Image: 999x.jpg

F-16 in the background.

Your tax dollars at work, ladies and gentlemen.

/

210 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:52:22pm

re: #201 Fozzie Bear

Charles doesn't have a tenth of the regular posters that Kos has. There is an order of magnitude of difference.

Then he needs more moderators who are educated as to truth vs. lie. If he cant handle that, he has no business blogging.

211 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:10pm

re: #210 CapeCoddah

Then he needs more moderators who are educated as to truth vs. lie. If he cant handle that, he has no business blogging.

My god you're whinny.

212 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:16pm

re: #178 McSpiff

I have, you aren't listening. If you turn people over to be tortured you support repression in Egypt, full stop.

you have been pretty cryptic...the US is turning who over to the Mubarak govt?...I didn't know that was happening

213 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:27pm

re: #202 CapeCoddah

That's a rather jackass comment.

Sergery spends a huge amount of his time attacking holocaust deniers. He has for years upon years. That you'd attempt to smear him as being okay with vilification of Jews is just insane.

214 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:33pm

re: #205 Fozzie Bear

No, it doesn't. It just makes the poster look like an ass. Seriously, read the comments.

Really, lots of crazy people read the internet regularly. They believe that shit. I have a problem with that. Why don't you?

215 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:43pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Russian Mi-17...

Image: 999x.jpg

F-16 in the background.

"American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!"

216 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:52pm

re: #210 CapeCoddah

Then he needs more moderators who are educated as to truth vs. lie. If he cant handle that, he has no business blogging.

Yeah seriously, nobody should blog unless they can afford a staff, and a secretary, and a helicopter. Amateurs. /

217 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:54:03pm

French Aérospatiale Gazelle...

Image: 999x.jpg

OK, we've also got some French products.

218 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:54:09pm

re: #201 Fozzie Bear

So Kos has become unmanageable. Got it.

219 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:54:31pm

re: #211 McSpiff

My god you're whinny.

LOL. I do not whine. Nice duck, though, instead of a cogent argument.

220 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:06pm
22:30 Defence Secretary Robert Gates speaks with his Egyptian counterpart Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, the unrest in the country. También con el ministro de Defensa israelí, Ehud Barak. Also with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak.


[Link: www.rtve.es...]

221 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:15pm

re: #218 Rightwingconspirator

So Kos has become unmanageable. Got it.

What is the virtue of deleting the diary vs. leaving it up with the firm rebuttals of it in the comments?

222 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:24pm

re: #217 Gus 802

French Aérospatiale Gazelle...

Image: 999x.jpg

OK, we've also got some French products.

Kid is showing it the friendly number of fingers.

223 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:25pm

Next, Bill O'Reilly will equate deleted comments at Dailykos with comments by elected Republican candidates calling Obama the "enemy of humanity."

Oh.

Wait.

224 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:30pm

re: #214 CapeCoddah

Really, lots of crazy people read the internet regularly. They believe that shit. I have a problem with that. Why don't you?

What do you want to do about it? Honestly, the best thing in the long term is for people to learn to spot bullshit. In this case, it would appear that has occurred, as evidenced by the comments.

This is free speech, warts and all. This is just how it plays out.

225 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:36pm

re: #216 Fozzie Bear

Yeah seriously, nobody should blog unless they can afford a staff, and a secretary, and a helicopter. Amateurs. /

Well, shit. Should I book 6 cars for the same time if I only have 3 drivers? I would have no business being in the business if I could not staff it properly. Same applies to everything.

226 Lidane  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:55:50pm

re: #210 CapeCoddah

Kos could have 10,000 moderators and they still wouldn't be able to catch everything. You simply can't police the internet that closely, or that dramatically 24/7. Idiocy will happen online. It's inevitable.

Seriously-- you're blowing this out of proportion. It's no different than holding Charles responsible if someone here posts a rambling, incoherent Page that the rest of downding and call bullshit on.

227 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:02pm

re: #223 Talking Point Detective

Next, Bill O'Reilly will equate deleted comments at Dailykos with comments by elected Republican candidates calling Obama the "enemy of humanity."

Oh.

Wait.

Lol, O'Reilly should take a stroll through the comments at FoxNation...

228 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:14pm

re: #221 Obdicut

Same as here. Judgment call by the host.

229 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:26pm

re: #218 Rightwingconspirator

So Kos has become unmanageable. Got it.

DKos is self-moderated. Note that the diary lacks the automatic first comment by the diarist called a "Tip Jar". That's because it was hidden by the commenters through the use of negative ratings. If there are enough such ratings, the diarist will be autobanned, if not, one of the moderators will probably take a look and ban the user anyway for spreading conspiracy theories (that's what I would bet on).

230 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:46pm

re: Blog Moderation

Charles does a far superior job of moderating that anybody else out there.

And he makes it look so easy, we take it for granted, IMO.

We should remember this, and be grateful for the attention to detail paid by our blog host.

231 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:47pm

re: #226 Lidane

Kos could have 10,000 moderators and they still wouldn't be able to catch everything. You simply can't police the internet that closely, or that dramatically 24/7. Idiocy will happen online. It's inevitable.

Seriously-- you're blowing this out of proportion. It's no different than holding Charles responsible if someone here posts a rambling, incoherent Page that the rest of downding and call bullshit on.

Someone here had no problem finding it.

232 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:49pm

re: #212 albusteve

you have been pretty cryptic...the US is turning who over to the Mubarak govt?...I didn't know that was happening

I think he refers to this: [Link: www.newyorker.com...]

233 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:50pm

re: #227 Varek Raith

Lol, O'Reilly should take a stroll through the comments at FoxNation...

So long as he doesn't forget his Level IV Biohazard suit.

234 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:56:55pm

re: #215 Varek Raith

"American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!"

And France. It's almost like the Paris air show over there with several international arms dealers (vendors).

235 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:57:14pm

re: #228 Rightwingconspirator

Same as here. Judgment call by the host.

Do you think that Charles checks out every single posted page here and verifies their accuracy? I don't. I don't think he has to, either.

236 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:57:14pm

Not leaving, but hubby just pulled tenderlions off the grill.... bbiab

237 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:57:15pm

re: #195 Decatur Deb

We send them a couple billion a year--our #2 foreign aid recipient. Could be that we do it to keep them from being worse, but it's easy to see that as blanket approval.

well it isn't...it's protection money, a buyoff to support the agreements between them and Israel...all this extrapolation is pointless, no matter how bad people want to seem bright and have it all figured out....there is no more to it, unless #178 involves the US...still waiting on that

239 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:58:07pm

re: #234 Gus 802

And France. It's almost like the Paris air show over there with several international arms dealers (vendors).

I'll take one of those, and one of these and, oh, three of these!
/

240 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:58:34pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

I'll take one of those, and one of these and, oh, three of these!
/

"Does it come in black?"

/

241 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:58:45pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Baredi is claiming the Egyptian MB is in favor of a secular state. Is there anyone from the MB saying that?

242 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:59:02pm

re: #213 Obdicut

That's a rather jackass comment.

Sergery spends a huge amount of his time attacking holocaust deniers. He has for years upon years. That you'd attempt to smear him as being okay with vilification of Jews is just insane.

Then he should be pretty upset about that story.
I was not smearing anyone. Just pointing out how that post will incite even more unwarranted hatred against the Jews.

243 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:59:02pm

re: #230 reine.de.tout

re: Blog Moderation

Charles does a far superior job of moderating that anybody else out there.

And he makes it look so easy, we take it for granted, IMO.

We should remember this, and be grateful for the attention to detail paid by our blog host.

It's a hell of a lot easier when you have a few hundred posters compared to a few hundred thousand.

244 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:59:16pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Baredi is claiming the Egyptian MB is in favor of a secular state. Is there anyone from the MB saying that?

It's what the MB rep said on AJ the other day.

245 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:59:19pm

re: #212 albusteve

you have been pretty cryptic...the US is turning who over to the Mubarak govt?...I didn't know that was happening

Then you don't understand what extraordinaire rendition is.

From Extraordinary rendition by the United States

In a New Yorker interview with CIA veteran Michael Scheuer, an author of the rendition program under the Clinton administration, writer Jane Mayer noted, "In 1995, American agents proposed the rendition program to Egypt, making clear that it had the resources to track, capture, and transport terrorist suspects globally — including access to a small fleet of aircraft. Egypt embraced the idea... 'What was clever was that some of the senior people in Al Qaeda were Egyptian,' Scheuer said. 'It served American purposes to get these people arrested, and Egyptian purposes to get these people back, where they could be interrogated.' Technically, U.S. law requires the CIA to seek 'assurances' from foreign governments that rendered suspects won’t be tortured. Scheuer told me that this was done, but he was 'not sure' if any documents confirming the arrangement were signed."[30] However, Scheuer testified before Congress that no such assurances were received.[31] He further acknowledged that treatment of prisoners may not have been "up to U.S. standards.However, he stated,

This is a matter of no concern as the Rendition Program’s goal was to protect America, and the rendered fighters delivered to Middle Eastern governments are now either dead or in places from which they cannot harm America. Mission accomplished, as the saying goes.[32]

Thereafter, with the approval of President Clinton and a presidential directive (PDD 39), the CIA instead elected to send suspects to Egypt, where they were turned over to the Egyptian Mukhabarat."

That's the entire point of the program. Sites like Guantanamo are for people that are too luckily to receive support from their country of origin. What we did with Egypt is an explicit endorsement in my mind. This is where the blowback comes from.

246 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:59:51pm

re: #237 albusteve

well it isn't...it's protection money, a buyoff to support the agreements between them and Israel...all this extrapolation is pointless, no matter how bad people want to seem bright and have it all figured out...there is no more to it, unless #178 involves the US...still waiting on that

Send me just a tenth of that and you can chide me all you want.

248 freetoken  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:00:39pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Opposition Leader ElBaradei: Threat of Muslim Brotherhood Is A ‘Myth’ Lacking ‘One Iota Of Reality’

Mubarak and Friends in Denial About the Revolution

4 Reasons Why Egypt's Revolution Is Not Islamic


Why do you interpret the last link as "gushing with love and praise for the Muslim Brotherhood"?

249 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:00:40pm

re: #242 CapeCoddah

Why do you think he's not 'upset' about it? Because he doesn't want it deleted?

250 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:00:56pm

re: #235 Obdicut

He has his monitors, and given how well this blog is moderated...
IMO that diary is more than sufficiently odious as the best thing would be for it to be deleted.

251 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:01:04pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Baredi is claiming the Egyptian MB is in favor of a secular state. Is there anyone from the MB saying that?

A MB spokesman was on Al Jazz yesterday claiming that the MB has no political aspirations and will not run for elections in the parliament or for the presidency. I don't think anybody believes that.

252 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:01:11pm

re: #232 000G

I think he refers to this: [Link: www.newyorker.com...]

maybe, don't know....but his situation is a far cry from the sweeping accusation that US policy supports Egyptian repression of the citizens

253 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:01:14pm

re: #242 CapeCoddah

Then he should be pretty upset about that story.
I was not smearing anyone. Just pointing out how that post will incite even more unwarranted hatred against the Jews.

Why is it better to hide the haters when you can beat them up in public?

254 Lidane  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:01:16pm

re: #231 CapeCoddah

Someone here had no problem finding it.

So? The comments there make it blatantly clear that the readers of DKos called bullshit and rated the diarist negatively. What part of that is so hard to understand?

Again-- it's just like holding Charles responsible for every Page and every comment that gets posted here. You're letting your hate for Kos blind you to the fact that the internet simply can't be policed as strongly as you'd like, and that the diary in question is nothing more than a consequence of a blogger allowing their users to post their own content. Period.

255 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:01:38pm

re: #250 Rightwingconspirator

I understand that's your opinion. I'm asking you why-- what the virtue of having it deleted, rather than having it present with the smack-down comments, is.

256 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:01:48pm

re: #242 CapeCoddah

Then he should be pretty upset about that story.
I was not smearing anyone. Just pointing out how that post will incite even more unwarranted hatred against the Jews.

All that post did was incite hatred for the poster.

257 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:02:11pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

A MB spokesman was on Al Jazz yesterday claiming that the MB has no political aspirations and will not run for elections in the parliament or for the presidency. I don't think anybody believes that.

And all the Nazis want is a little more breathing room.

/

258 Tigger2  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:02:42pm

God It's just like watching FOX news.

259 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:02:45pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

A MB spokesman was on Al Jazz yesterday claiming that the MB has no political aspirations and will not run for elections in the parliament or for the presidency. I don't think anybody believes that.

No, especially since that clashes with El Baredi's comment that 'we have to include them.'

It does kind of seem like Baredi got his talking points in line with the MB.

Sigh. We'll see. Hope's a dim thing these days.

260 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:02:45pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

A MB spokesman was on Al Jazz yesterday claiming that the MB has no political aspirations and will not run for elections in the parliament or for the presidency. I don't think anybody believes that.

I didn't hear him say that they wouldn't run for elections. IIRC, he expressed that they did not expect to be embedded in the state's institutions (Ayatollah style, I presume).

261 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:03:11pm

re: #258 Tigger2

God It's just like watching FOX news.

Except without the chalkboards and crying.

262 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:03:22pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Baredi is claiming the Egyptian MB is in favor of a secular state. Is there anyone from the MB saying that?

quite possibly....is there a reason the MB should be taken at their word?...subterfuge and deceit being the custom and all that jolly rot

263 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:03:28pm

Too much emphasis on the MB.

264 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:04:51pm

re: #246 Decatur Deb

Send me just a tenth of that and you can chide me all you want.

I don't mean to chide you...it's not like I have some ego investment in my opinions

266 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:05:24pm

re: #248 freetoken

because...

In Egypt today, among the main trends in Islamic practice are a quietist Salafism, which seeks a rigorous but non-political personal morality, and the Muslim Brotherhood.

And while the Brotherhood is an incredibly large and powerful organization, it is today a product of years of suppression, torture, and intimidation. While it seeks to change society, it does not pursue an explicitly political agenda. Rather, it believes that an ideal politics will be achieved once society is Islamized -- in other words, enough introduction of Muslim values into popular culture, and society will simply reform itself -- and that includes the state. So while they have political ideals, they certainly don't have an explicit political program.

Of course the introduction of Islamic ideals will not be completely voluntary. It would require a certain amount help and probably religious police like in Suadi Arabia. The Muslim brotherhood makes no secret of what they want and a free and secular Egypt is not on their agenda.

267 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:05:30pm

re: #263 Gus 802

Too much emphasis on the MB.

Which is exactly what Mubarak wants. US support is entirely based on "devil you know".

268 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:05:34pm

re: #243 recusancy

It's a hell of a lot easier when you have a few hundred posters compared to a few hundred thousand.

Whatever.
I suspect there are many registered here who never post a comment or a page, and at least some of them don't because they know they'll be deleted and/or banned.

I stand by my comment that Charles does a far superior job than anyone else out there.

269 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:05:49pm

The reality is that Mubarak is out. The MB will have a seat at the table whether we like it or not. They've always had a presence in Egypt anyway and have run for office many times in the past. If we "prop up" Mubarak because we fear MB eventually it's going to blow up in our face far worse than the potential influence they may have in the future if and when Mubarak steps down.

270 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:07:46pm

re: #268 reine.de.tout

I think he does a far superior job too. That doesn't mean I think it'd be fair to complain about LGF pages not being deleted even though they had a bullshit point of view or were based on a fabrication.

I'm really confused why people aren't more happy that at DKOS, lefty site, that bullshit diary was attacked, and the bullshit called on. The diary is by one person. The comments attacking the diary are by many people.

271 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:07:46pm

re: #267 McSpiff

Which is exactly what Mubarak wants. US support is entirely based on "devil you know".

It's been the carrot for decades now. Either we support or prop up Mubarak or else "the MB is going to take over Egypt". At the same time this support of Mubarak has ironically only made the MB even stronger and more popular.

272 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:08:46pm

re: #255 Obdicut

1. Little to no support, or reliable links. It's just an accusation without evidence.
2. It does paint the Israeli state in (again IMO) in a falsely bad way. If proven correct I'll eat my words and apologize.
3. White Phos. while a violation if used of troops is legit as a marking shot, and it's a stretch of the definition of chemical weapons to put it in the same category as VX or mustard gas.

3 strikes against it amounts to enough to yank it.
All those negative comments would seem to support my opinion, given the Dkos audience.

273 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:08:51pm

re: #270 Obdicut

I'm really confused why people aren't more happy that at DKOS, lefty site, that bullshit diary was attacked, and the bullshit called on. The diary is by one person. The comments attacking the diary are by many people.

You know why. Partisanship. It's a liberal site.

274 Steve Dutch  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:09:06pm

"If you suspect someone is a Muslim, just shoot him?" Don't we gotta flag this for breaking the rules? ;-)

275 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:09:11pm

re: #270 Obdicut

I think he does a far superior job too. That doesn't mean I think it'd be fair to complain about LGF pages not being deleted even though they had a bullshit point of view or were based on a fabrication.

I'm really confused why people aren't more happy that at DKOS, lefty site, that bullshit diary was attacked, and the bullshit called on. The diary is by one person. The comments attacking the diary are by many people.

/ What! So you would prefer they make up shit about Obama?

276 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:09:14pm

re: #270 Obdicut

I think he does a far superior job too. That doesn't mean I think it'd be fair to complain about LGF pages not being deleted even though they had a bullshit point of view or were based on a fabrication.

I'm really confused why people aren't more happy that at DKOS, lefty site, that bullshit diary was attacked, and the bullshit called on. The diary is by one person. The comments attacking the diary are by many people.

I didn't make any comments about that diary at DKos, and I'm not going to speak for anybody else.

I'm not a DKos fan, and generally just stay away, with no praise or complaints about the place.

277 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:09:25pm

Think Latin America and the Cold War. Military dictatorships, Operation Condor, etc.

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:09:29pm

re: #269 Gus 802

The question is, what the US can do, in principle? Use aid as the lever, esp. to protect Israel? How can the US be an influence here? (And no, I'm not really bothered by the "colonialism" interpretation ;).

279 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:09:53pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Opposition Leader ElBaradei: Threat of Muslim Brotherhood Is A ‘Myth’ Lacking ‘One Iota Of Reality’

Mubarak and Friends in Denial About the Revolution

4 Reasons Why Egypt's Revolution Is Not Islamic

Thanks.

Are you referring to the comments, because after a quick perusal, I don't see any of those three articles earning the description of "gushing with love and praise for the MB."

And even in the comments, I don't see what you described as being a fair overall characterization.

280 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:10:04pm

re: #274 SteveDutch

It breaks rule #4 depending on the context.

281 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:10:04pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Opposition Leader ElBaradei: Threat of Muslim Brotherhood Is A ‘Myth’ Lacking ‘One Iota Of Reality’

Mubarak and Friends in Denial About the Revolution

4 Reasons Why Egypt's Revolution Is Not Islamic


Even if the immediate result does not mean a MB government, you can be sure the foot will be in the door- and that will be just the beginnings.

Think Lebanon and Hizbollah.

282 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:10:22pm
petequily "Fuck you and fuck Britain," high ranking Egyptian officer yells to Brit journalist after punching him [Link: bit.ly...] #jan25 #egypt
283 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:10:46pm

re: #271 Gus 802

Exactly. They haven't been being repressed for being terrorists in Egypt, they've been repressed for simply being the enemy of Mubarak. The can legitimately claim persecution. The only real way to defeat theocratic and other extremist groups is through the democratic process. Repression doesn't work.

284 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:10:59pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout

I didn't make any comments about that diary at DKos, and I'm not going to speak for anybody else.

I'm not a DKos fan, and generally just stay away, with no praise or complaints about the place.

seconded...they have zero interest for me...just a strife generator as you can see

285 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:11:05pm

re: #282 NJDhockeyfan

I suppose this has been a particularly stressful week for some people...

286 elizajane  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:11:06pm

re: #137 Stanley Sea

A California man is in jail on a terrorism charge after he was arrested in Dearborn for allegedly trying to blow up the biggest mosque in metro Detroit, Dearborn officials said today.

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Coverate on Fox:

[Link: www.myfoxdetroit.com...]

Comments following the story on Fox:

"It's about time they get a taste of their own medicine! It looks like there's still hope for Californians. Wouldn't it be ironic if the honorable Mr. Stockham brought down those two towers at the mosque. The movement is behind you, Roger. " [liked by 6 people]

287 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:11:28pm

re: #272 Rightwingconspirator

You're not answering my question.

Why delete it, rather than leave it up with the comments attacking it?

I'm not debating its quality, at all.

288 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:12:03pm

re: #284 albusteve

seconded...they have zero interest for me...just a strife generator as you can see

egg-zackly.
My point was that we enjoy good blog moderation here and that we take it for granted, IMO, and shouldn't.

289 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:12:08pm

re: #270 Obdicut

One up for the last paragraph- and we do have two easy to use ways to complain as we see fit- downdings and the report feature.

290 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:12:36pm

Should Charles go back and erase all his own posts from the past when he was going along with the wing nut lies about climate change? Or any other untrue posts?

291 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:12:44pm

re: #278 Sergey Romanov

The question is, what the US can do, in principle? Use aid as the lever, esp. to protect Israel? How can the US be an influence here? (And no, I'm not really bothered by the "colonialism" interpretation ;).

That's a tall order. I don't know, maybe a new Egyptian constitution. Free elections under international observation. The usual actions. Worst case scenario defending Israel shouldn't post a problem militarily speaking.

292 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:12:48pm

re: #281 researchok

Even if the immediate result does not mean a MB government, you can be sure the foot will be in the door- and that will be just the beginnings.

Think Lebanon and Hizbollah.

Fearmongering. What are you basing this on? Just yesterday you falsely claimed that the MB "are the only Egyptian opposition that is organized".

293 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:13:09pm

re: #278 Sergey Romanov

The question is, what the US can do, in principle? Use aid as the lever, esp. to protect Israel? How can the US be an influence here? (And no, I'm not really bothered by the "colonialism" interpretation ;).

294 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:13:18pm

re: #272 Rightwingconspirator

1. Little to no support, or reliable links. It's just an accusation without evidence.
2. It does paint the Israeli state in (again IMO) in a falsely bad way. If proven correct I'll eat my words and apologize.
3. White Phos. while a violation if used of troops is legit as a marking shot, and it's a stretch of the definition of chemical weapons to put it in the same category as VX or mustard gas.

3 strikes against it amounts to enough to yank it.
All those negative comments would seem to support my opinion, given the Dkos audience.

Better the koskids should practice discipline of their own bullshitters, and they seem to be learning in this case

295 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:14:27pm

re: #286 elizajane

Coverate on Fox:

[Link: www.myfoxdetroit.com...]

Comments following the story on Fox:

"It's about time they get a taste of their own medicine! It looks like there's still hope for Californians. Wouldn't it be ironic if the honorable Mr. Stockham brought down those two towers at the mosque. The movement is behind you, Roger. " [liked by 6 people]

I have been reading a lot of people finding reasons to give DKos
& HuffPo a pass on shitty posts & comments on their blogs as a 'It's not their fault' mem then you come along and complain about a comment at Fox News.

LOL

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:14:35pm

re: #293 albusteve

You wanted something?

297 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:14:43pm

is this the part of the day where CapeCoddah doesn't understand how the internet works


Because I could come back later

298 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:15:10pm

Looks like we're fighting a two front war here: Egypt and DailyKos.

//

299 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:15:23pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

I have been reading a lot of people finding reasons to give DKos
& HuffPo a pass on shitty posts & comments on their blogs as a 'It's not their fault' mem then you come along and complain about a comment at Fox News.

LOL

I don't think you're really reading what people are writing them. People are saying that the post on DKOS sucks, and pointing out that the comments on DKOS are attacking the bullshit post.

Do you understand? The comments aren't being given a pass. The comments are actually a good thing-- they're attacking the bullshit diary.

301 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:16:09pm

re: #298 Gus 802

Looks like we're fighting a two front war here: Egypt and DailyKos.

//

"Somebody said something wrong on the internet."

302 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:16:19pm

re: #298 Gus 802

Looks like we're fighting a two front war here: Egypt and DailyKos.

//

"How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?"

/

303 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:16:42pm

re: #297 WindUpBird

is this the part of the day where CapeCoddah doesn't understand how the internet works

Because I could come back later

The very same CapeCoddah who was smacked around pretty hard when she tried to point out that whatshisname who got elected in Mass was not a tee-partier. As has turned out to be true.

304 freetoken  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:16:43pm

re: #300 000G

It would be fair to say that there is a great deal of unrest due to both economic and social/political causes, no?

305 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:16:55pm

re: #299 Obdicut

I don't think you're really reading what people are writing them. People are saying that the post on DKOS sucks, and pointing out that the comments on DKOS are attacking the bullshit post.

Do you understand? The comments aren't being given a pass. The comments are actually a good thing-- they're attacking the bullshit diary.

NJD has a long pattern of claiming Markos is some sort of demon, perhaps a lesser archvile or mancubus, not really coming from an objective place

306 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:03pm

re: #302 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?"

/

Early Mad or Panic mag?

307 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:08pm

re: #296 Sergey Romanov

You wanted something?


bad fu...lost it

308 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:19pm

re: #298 Gus 802

Looks like we're fighting a two front war here: Egypt and DailyKos.

//

If I could I'd have all the DK ones removed as I dont give a s.

309 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:26pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

The numbers are different. In this diary, for example, we have one loony condemned by dozens of Kossacks. In Fox Nation it's usually a dozen of loonies in each posting.

(This is not to say that dkos doesn't remind of swamp when it comes to certain topics.)

310 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:31pm

re: #287 Obdicut

I did answer honestly and directly.

"3 strikes against it amounts to enough to yank it."
More specifically the 3 reasons I spelled out. While there is certainly room to come to the other conclusion I gave you triple faceted answer and a summation.

311 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:36pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

I have been reading a lot of people finding reasons to give DKos
& HuffPo a pass on shitty posts & comments on their blogs as a 'It's not their fault' mem then you come along and complain about a comment at Fox News.

LOL

Here's a little assignment for you. Read the comments at Dailykos in response to the diary, and see what the general tone of them is.

Then go to the Fox News site and count how many "recommended" points the lunatic posts get.

Then come back and report.

312 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:37pm

re: #304 freetoken

It would be fair to say that there is a great deal of unrest due to both economic and social/political causes, no?

Yes.

Face of Mideast unrest: young and hungry for jobs

313 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:17:59pm

re: #303 reine.de.tout

The very same CapeCoddah who was smacked around pretty hard when she tried to point out that whatshisname who got elected in Mass was not a tee-partier. As has turned out to be true.

Supported and elected by the tea party, and then turned on them. Good for him!

But also the very same CapeCoddah who went just full on crazy walnuts about queers a while back, so I'm not so much of a fan

314 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:18:10pm

re: #292 000G

Fearmongering. What are you basing this on? Just yesterday you falsely claimed that the MB "are the only Egyptian opposition that is organized".

Yes- I misspoke.

The MB are the largest and most significant group that is organized.

Which is why they are a concern to many outside of Egypt.

315 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:18:31pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

I have been reading a lot of people finding reasons to give DKos
& HuffPo a pass on shitty posts & comments on their blogs as a 'It's not their fault' mem then you come along and complain about a comment at Fox News.

LOL

I couldn't care less what happens on Fox, or Kos.
It's why I'm here.

317 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:18:41pm

re: #310 Rightwingconspirator

No, you still haven't explained why those are reasons to yank it. They're reasons the diary sucks. Why is that-- the diary sucking-- a reason to delete it?

Why not leave it up with the firm repudiation in the comments?

318 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:18:42pm

re: #306 Decatur Deb

Early Mad or Panic mag?

Aliens.

319 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:18:42pm

On a side not I think that the MB is far too conservative for progressive Egyptians especially Cairo youth. It would be counter intuitive to replace a Mubarak regime with a MB regime.

320 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:19:01pm

re: #315 reine.de.tout

I couldn't care less what happens on Fox, or Kos.
It's why I'm here.

I thought it was for the free beer and nightly orgies?

/

321 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:19:09pm

re: #307 albusteve

bad fu...lost it

I think BO is saying as little as possible because events have come to him...he inherited a situation and there is no benefit to speaking out in favor of one group over another...zip the lip BO, for now

322 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:19:35pm

re: #318 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Aliens.

Then they were quoting a running gag from the late 50s.

323 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:19:38pm

re: #315 reine.de.tout

I couldn't care less what happens on Fox, or Kos.
It's why I'm here.


Best answer on the issue right there!

324 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:20:08pm

re: #319 Gus 802

On a side not I think that the MB is far too conservative for progressive Egyptians especially Cairo youth. It would be counter intuitive to replace a Mubarak regime with a MB regime.

Site NOTE! Yeesh. I'm such a lazy typist sometimes.

325 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:20:25pm

re: #314 researchok

Yes- I misspoke.

The MB are the largest and most significant group that is organized.

Which is why they are a concern to many outside of Egypt.

I am usually not one for nationalistic romanticism but right now, the largest and most significant group seems to be the Egyptian people.

326 freetoken  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:21:03pm

re: #312 000G

One thing I note is how much Egypt's population has grown, in parallel with decreasing oil production there to the point that Egypt now is a net importer. Combine that with Egypt now needing to import something like 40-50% of its food, and the average person is going to see their life impinged upon by creeping prices for food and misc. goods.

IMO this transcends Islamic group this or that. Whatever happens in Egypt over the next few days leading to whomever gaining power, it will not erase a very big problem facing that country - an exploding population without the increase in resources.

327 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:21:09pm

If the subject du jour is back to Daily Kos gotchas, I'll come back later ;-)

have fun with BLOGWARRRZZZZZ

328 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:21:26pm

re: #249 Obdicut

Why do you think he's not 'upset' about it? Because he doesn't want it deleted?

Why on Earth would he not want a post like that, complete lies, harmful ones, deleted?

329 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:21:58pm

re: #319 Gus 802

On a side not I think that the MB is far too conservative for progressive Egyptians especially Cairo youth. It would be counter intuitive to replace a Mubarak regime with a MB regime.

Not if we're talking a big-endia v. little-endian kind of struggle.

330 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:22:13pm

damned Goldfish....I'm a slave, a flea bit junkie...bought two more sacks today

331 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:11pm

re: #317 Obdicut
I'll try to be more clear-I find that culmination of the 3 kinds of wrong I wrote to be enough. Given I framed it as my opinion, and gave a nod to the other conclusion I am surprised you find you find that an inadequate answer.
Like I said above the negative reaction is a good thing, and I think pulling that diary would be an even better thing.

332 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:17pm

re: #320 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I thought it was for the free beer and nightly orgies?

/

Shhh dude, remember, first and second rule...

333 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:18pm

re: #309 Sergey Romanov

The numbers are different. In this diary, for example, we have one loony condemned by dozens of Kossacks. In Fox Nation it's usually a dozen of loonies in each posting.

(This is not to say that dkos doesn't remind of swamp when it comes to certain topics.)

DKos has a rich history.

334 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:34pm

re: #313 WindUpBird

Supported and elected by the tea party, and then turned on them. Good for him!

But also the very same CapeCoddah who went just full on crazy walnuts about queers a while back, so I'm not so much of a fan

You can be a fan or not.
I'm just sayin . . .
He was supported by the tea party, but was not one of them, ever.
She told us.
She got smacked around hard for it.
Just saying -

335 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:39pm

Some people like open forums with self moderation. Others like strong centralized moderation. Some like both.

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:57pm

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Wrong link ;-)

337 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:23:58pm

re: #320 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I thought it was for the free beer and nightly orgies?

/

Boob and penis threads.

338 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:24:19pm

re: #328 CapeCoddah

Why on Earth would he not want a post like that, complete lies, harmful ones, deleted?

What is the virtue of having it deleted when those harmful lies are exposed and attacked in the comments?

339 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:24:31pm

re: #326 freetoken

One thing I note is how much Egypt's population has grown, in parallel with decreasing oil production there to the point that Egypt now is a net importer. Combine that with Egypt now needing to import something like 40-50% of its food, and the average person is going to see their life impinged upon by creeping prices for food and misc. goods.

IMO this transcends Islamic group this or that. Whatever happens in Egypt over the next few days leading to whomever gaining power, it will not erase a very big problem facing that country - an exploding population without the increase in resources.

I don't think the main reason here is food or any other type of goods or resources.

It's social positions (mostly in the form of jobs). A way up. Recognition. Acknowledgement. Self-respect.

340 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:24:39pm

re: #319 Gus 802

On a side not I think that the MB is far too conservative for progressive Egyptians especially Cairo youth. It would be counter intuitive to replace a Mubarak regime with a MB regime.

It would be horribly stupid but I think it's quite possible and even likely. Those kids in the street do not get to choose what happens. Those decisions are already being made by the Muslim Brotherhood. Who leads the interemin government. who's allowed to run in future elections, etc. All of these decisions are already being made by the MB.

341 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:25:00pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

Bye.

Excuse me?

342 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:25:02pm

re: #329 Sergey Romanov

Not if we're talking a big-endia v. little-endian kind of struggle.

True. But maybe that's a risk we have to take?

343 JAFO  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:25:29pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

Boob and penis threads.

I'm hoping for a 'poop' thread.

344 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:26:16pm

re: #340 Killgore Trout

It would be horribly stupid but I think it's quite possible and even likely. Those kids in the street do not get to choose what happens. Those decisions are already being made by the Muslim Brotherhood. Who leads the interemin government. who's allowed to run in future elections, etc. All of these decisions are already being made by the MB.

So how are the MB going to bar anyone from running for office? I'd like to know.

345 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:26:48pm

re: #313 WindUpBird

Supported and elected by the tea party, and then turned on them. Good for him!

But also the very same CapeCoddah who went just full on crazy walnuts about queers a while back, so I'm not so much of a fan

Lets clear that up. I went nuts on nudity, drunkenness and sex acts on a public street. Gay or straight, I would have the same issues.

346 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:26:51pm

re: #344 000G

So how are the MB going to bar anyone from running for office? I'd like to know.

kill them

347 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:27:49pm

re: #303 reine.de.tout

The very same CapeCoddah who was smacked around pretty hard when she tried to point out that whatshisname who got elected in Mass was not a tee-partier. As has turned out to be true.

Facts, Reine... Never let facts get in the way...

348 William of Orange  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:27:54pm

Man! Where does that headache come from this morning?

Damn.... I feel miserable.....

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


:-)

349 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:28:06pm

re: #345 CapeCoddah

Lets clear that up. I went nuts on nudity, drunkenness and sex acts on a public street. Gay or straight, I would have the same issues.

Some folks see what they want to see.

Whatshisname's election has gone from "he was not a tea-partier", to "he turned his back on them". LOL. He never was a tea-partier, and you said so.

350 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:28:37pm

re: #346 albusteve

kill them

They might.

I think what that tactic would get them is civil war, though, not power.

351 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:28:59pm

re: #331 Rightwingconspirator

Okay. Unless you explain why those three reasons are enough, I'm not going to be able to understand why you think so. I have seen pages on LGF that contained inaccurate information, that were attacked for being inaccurate-- including by yours truly-- that have remained up.

It is possible some people will read that diary without reading any comments, and come away more ill-informed. I think more people will read the comments, and see the bullshit exposed. I see that as a good thing.

352 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:29:25pm

re: #349 reine.de.tout

Some folks see what they want to see.

Whatshisname's election has gone from "he was not a tea-partier", to "he turned his back on them". LOL. He never was a tea-partier, and you said so.

I back up that thing...I was there and the newbie poodles were on the loose

353 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:29:40pm

re: #345 CapeCoddah

That is not an accurate summation of what you said, no. You made blanket statements about the way that gay men acted, and, when asked to reduce your statements and not be so broad-brushed, refused to do so.

354 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:29:45pm

I'm hungry.
I think I shall have dessert now, and maybe some food later.
Anyone else want in?

355 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:30:46pm

re: #345 CapeCoddah

Lets clear that up. I went nuts on nudity, drunkenness and sex acts on a public street. Gay or straight, I would have the same issues.

I'm still waiting for a photo essay about Mardi Gras to inspire quite so many people to be outraged.

356 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:30:51pm

re: #350 000G

They might.

I think what that tactic would get them is civil war, though, not power.

they wouldn't do it TV or take credit for a hit and run...do not underestimate the MB and what they are capable of doing

357 freetoken  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:30:56pm

re: #339 000G


It's social positions (mostly in the form of jobs). A way up. Recognition. Acknowledgement. Self-respect.

I can buy that. As I wrote, I do think the social/political unrest is in the mix in these restive areas. I've often gotten the impression that in some of these countries, such as Egypt, which have a decent enough communication system that people have continuous contact with the outside, that there is a great deal of unhappiness about social status (a kind of caste system without an explicit religious explanation for such) that keeps young people either on the dole or doing menial jobs, that encourages discrimination against groups, etc.

There is a lot at play in Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, etc. It's not just about Islam. Islam obviously plays a big role in these nations, but it is not the only thing influencing the current state.

358 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:31:19pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

I'm hungry.
I think I shall have dessert now, and maybe some food later.
Anyone else want in?

two words...
Goldfish

359 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:31:26pm

re: #340 Killgore Trout

It would be horribly stupid but I think it's quite possible and even likely. Those kids in the street do not get to choose what happens. Those decisions are already being made by the Muslim Brotherhood. Who leads the interemin government. who's allowed to run in future elections, etc. All of these decisions are already being made by the MB.

If that turns out to be the case then it wouldn't be morally consistent. They would in the end only replace one form of tyranny for another. But it's also not lost on me either that Mubarak and the National Democratic Party have already been making those decisions for the Egyptian people already for nearly 3 decades. It is up to the Egyptians to keep MB in check and prevent them from becoming the new tyrants.

360 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:32:21pm

re: #356 albusteve

they wouldn't do it TV or take credit for a hit and run...do not underestimate the MB and what they are capable of doing

Don't underestimate the Egyptian people either.

361 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:32:21pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

You bet. I'll bring bananas & hot fudge for a split.

362 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:32:27pm

re: #356 albusteve

they wouldn't do it TV or take credit for a hit and run...do not underestimate the MB and what they are capable of doing

Not underestimating them. I just think that in the climate of these days it would be an incredibly stupid move if they tried that during upcoming elections.

363 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:33:33pm

re: #338 Obdicut

What is the virtue of having it deleted when those harmful lies are exposed and attacked in the comments?

The friggin birth certificate issue is a good example of people believing what they want to, if they like the insinuation.
No matter how many times the State of Hawaii tells us the truth, lots 'o nuts continue to believe it, no matter what proof is offered. The fact that the birth certificate WaS released is completely ignored by those who choose to believe stupid.. same thing here.

364 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:33:37pm

re: #359 Gus 802

I would still argue that a secular "weak" dictatorship (like it was under M.) is less painful than a theocratic dictatorship. Because the latter guys are f-n serious about their religious hangups.

365 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:33:40pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

I'm hungry.
I think I shall have dessert now, and maybe some food later.
Anyone else want in?

There are oatmeal cookies in the oven right now. Mrs NJD put too much butter in the mix so they are soft & chewy. I like them that way.

366 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:33:54pm

re: #362 000G

There's been a poll cited, which I can't find at the moment, showing more support for Islamacists than reformers in Egypt. However, I have no idea how they'd be able to do an accurate poll while Mubarak was in control.

367 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:34:27pm

re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still waiting for a photo essay about Mardi Gras to inspire quite so many people to be outraged.

what?, some equivalency test?...and I don't remember any outrage coming from the dissenters during that convo...any outrage came from the insulted promoters that anyone would be offended with their public sex gig....nice try tho

368 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:34:36pm

Can someone tell me a reason to be optimistic?

369 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:34:46pm

re: #353 Obdicut

That is not an accurate summation of what you said, no. You made blanket statements about the way that gay men acted, and, when asked to reduce your statements and not be so broad-brushed, refused to do so.

Yes, I did. Because I have LIVED, in the same house with them. Partied with them. I saw what I saw. MY life experience is all I can speak about.

370 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:34:58pm

re: #363 CapeCoddah

The friggin birth certificate issue is a good example of people believing what they want to, if they like the insinuation.
No matter how many times the State of Hawaii tells us the truth, lots 'o nuts continue to believe it, no matter what proof is offered. The fact that the birth certificate WaS released is completely ignored by those who choose to believe stupid.. same thing here.

You're basically saying it doesn't matter if the diary is left up or not, because the people that would believe it would believe it anyway. So you're actually arguing against yourself with that statement.

371 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:35:48pm

re: #369 CapeCoddah

Yes, I did. Because I have LIVED, in the same house with them. Partied with them. I saw what I saw. MY life experience is all I can speak about.

But you refused to acknowledge that your life experience couldn't, and shouldn't, be extrapolated to gay men in general. I'd be very glad if you, in fact, did acknowledge that.

372 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:35:54pm

re: #364 Sergey Romanov

I would still argue that a secular "weak" dictatorship (like it was under M.) is less painful than a theocratic dictatorship. Because the latter guys are f-n serious about their religious hangups.

I know. Iran is not lost on me either. "Hey, we got rid of that 'tyrant' the Shah and replaced him with an even bigger group of tyrants!" That's not a mission well accomplished.

373 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:36:02pm

re: #368 _RememberTonyC

Can someone tell me a reason to be optimistic?

Humans are capable of being awesome.

374 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:36:10pm

re: #368 _RememberTonyC

Can someone tell me a reason to be optimistic?

the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice

375 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:36:40pm

re: #362 000G

Not underestimating them. I just think that in the climate of these days it would be an incredibly stupid move if they tried that during upcoming elections.

consider: maybe a civil war, of sorts, would benefit the MB...cut to the chase and open a quicker path to power

376 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:36:41pm

re: #357 freetoken

I can buy that. As I wrote, I do think the social/political unrest is in the mix in these restive areas. I've often gotten the impression that in some of these countries, such as Egypt, which have a decent enough communication system that people have continuous contact with the outside, that there is a great deal of unhappiness about social status (a kind of caste system without an explicit religious explanation for such) that keeps young people either on the dole or doing menial jobs, that encourages discrimination against groups, etc.

Well, it's not a caste system or anything. It is a simple fact of life that young people want to get somewhere in life, get positions. And it is a fact of mathematics that meaningful positions are limited, in any society, and the more young people a society has, relatively, the more those positions will be coveted and fought for or protected. Creating more meaningful positions is an incredibly difficult process for a lot of societies, especially where the demand for them is great. You cannot do it by magic.

377 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:37:11pm

re: #368 _RememberTonyC

Can someone tell me a reason to be optimistic?

The good guys are on the way...

Groton Guard detachment is heading to Egypt

Groton - Connecticut National Guard Detachment 2, Company I, 185th Aviation Regiment of Groton has mobilized and will deploy to the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt, to support the Multinational Force and Observers.

The unit left Connecticut Jan. 15 for Fort Benning, Ga., for further training and validation. The unit operates C-23C Sherpa aircraft and has deployed three times in the last seven years in support of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The unit will provide an on-demand aviation asset to the Multinational Force and Observers commander to support its mission of supervising the security provisions of the Egypt/ Israel Peace Treaty.

Chief Warrant Officer Four James Smith of Ivoryton commands the aviation unit.

378 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:37:23pm

re: #349 reine.de.tout

Some folks see what they want to see.

Whatshisname's election has gone from "he was not a tea-partier", to "he turned his back on them". LOL. He never was a tea-partier, and you said so.

Scott Brown. And no, he never was a Tea Partier. You can lead a horse to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

379 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:37:33pm

re: #359 Gus 802

If that turns out to be the case then it wouldn't be morally consistent. They would in the end only replace one form of tyranny for another. But it's also not lost on me either that Mubarak and the National Democratic Party have already been making those decisions for the Egyptian people already for nearly 3 decades. It is up to the Egyptians to keep MB in check and prevent them from becoming the new tyrants.


bingo

380 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:37:45pm

re: #363 CapeCoddah

The friggin birth certificate issue is a good example of people believing what they want to, if they like the insinuation.
No matter how many times the State of Hawaii tells us the truth, lots 'o nuts continue to believe it, no matter what proof is offered. The fact that the birth certificate WaS released is completely ignored by those who choose to believe stupid.. same thing here.

Some wingnut blogs such as Redstate have taken a hardline stance against birtherism, and delete any mention of it. Do you think that such stances have convinced any birthers to reexamine the idea and realise it's stupid? Do you think that such stances have reduced the numbers of birthers?

Conversely, if DKos were to do something like delete this diary, do you think any of those who believe that these sort of beliefs represent 'the left' will hate 'the left' less?

381 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:37:48pm

re: #366 Obdicut

There's been a poll cited, which I can't find at the moment, showing more support for Islamacists than reformers in Egypt. However, I have no idea how they'd be able to do an accurate poll while Mubarak was in control.

"Do you like El Jefe?'

0 Si.

0 Mucho.

0 Caramba!

382 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:38:18pm

re: #373 Obdicut

Humans are capable of being awesome.

And sadly, incredibly evil as well ... And Evil must be defeated

383 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:38:26pm

re: #375 albusteve

consider: maybe a civil war, of sorts, would benefit the MB...cut to the chase and open a quicker path to power

I don't think so. Such scenarios already failed spectacularly in other countries (think Algeria). Also, Egyptians have just now proven they do not take oppressive shit anymore. Please do not forget so quickly.

384 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:39:18pm

re: #367 albusteve

what?, some equivalency test?...and I don't remember any outrage coming from the dissenters during that convo...any outrage came from the insulted promoters that anyone would be offended with their public sex gig...nice try tho

Yeah. An equivalency test.

I am pretty pissed at Zombie about that POS essay, and I remain so.

385 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:39:29pm

re: #377 NJDhockeyfan

The good guys are on the way...

Groton Guard detachment is heading to Egypt

Don't think so. We routinely reinforce the unfortunately-acrnymed MFOs.

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:39:35pm

re: #368 _RememberTonyC

Can someone tell me a reason to be optimistic?

Where there's life, there's hope.

387 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:39:38pm

re: #370 Obdicut

You're basically saying it doesn't matter if the diary is left up or not, because the people that would believe it would believe it anyway. So you're actually arguing against yourself with that statement.

NO. I am saying inflammatory lies like that should not be ALLOWED to stay up. Things like that get people killed.

388 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:39:42pm

re: #374 recusancy

the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice

I need to see a win or two really soon.

389 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:40:05pm

re: #366 Obdicut

There's been a poll cited, which I can't find at the moment, showing more support for Islamacists than reformers in Egypt. However, I have no idea how they'd be able to do an accurate poll while Mubarak was in control.

This?: [Link: pewglobal.org...]

390 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:40:46pm

re: #377 NJDhockeyfan

The good guys are on the way...

Groton Guard detachment is heading to Egypt

Safe travels to them

391 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:41:18pm

re: #344 000G

So how are the MB going to bar anyone from running for office? I'd like to know.

They've already made the demand that Mubarak's party be banned from any transitional government and future elections. It's not an unreasonable demand but they are making the decision themselves. This isn't much different than most revolutions. The people in the streets are usually just bit players and don't have much say in what happens next.

392 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:41:35pm

re: #364 Sergey Romanov

I would still argue that a secular "weak" dictatorship (like it was under M.) is less painful than a theocratic dictatorship. Because the latter guys are f-n serious about their religious hangups.

Tyrants are always serious about staying in power. Power is a technical problem, not one of seriousness or passion.

393 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:42:33pm

re: #383 000G

I don't think so. Such scenarios already failed spectacularly in other countries (think Algeria). Also, Egyptians have just now proven they do not take oppressive shit anymore. Please do not forget so quickly.

forgetting?...please
are you always this presumptuous?

394 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:42:38pm

re: #387 CapeCoddah

NO. I am saying inflammatory lies like that should not be ALLOWED to stay up. Things like that get people killed.

How do they get people killed, in the context of there being many, many comments attacking that diary? Why are those comments simply dismissable, and the diary itself all-important, in informing and influencing readers?

That's what I'm not understanding about your point of view.

395 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:42:43pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

They've already made the demand that Mubarak's party be banned from any transitional government and future elections...

I would say to just make it fair and not let them participate for the next 30 years.

396 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:42:46pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

They've already made the demand that Mubarak's party be banned from any transitional government and future elections. It's not an unreasonable demand but they are making the decision themselves. This isn't much different than most revolutions. The people in the streets are usually just bit players and don't have much say in what happens next.

As I said in an earlier thread: The Nazi Party was also banned from elections in Postwar Germany. That does not mean that those elections were unfair or undemocratic.

And how is the MB demanding something now equal to them calling shots?

397 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:42:57pm

re: #371 Obdicut

When did I do that. Please show me. I lived with 2 gay men for 3 years. I met hundreds of gay friends in that time, as my roomies and I spent a lot of time partying in Provincetown. I spoke only of my experiences, and that the Folsom fair mindset fit right in with my experiences while I was living with my roomates. Those are facts. I have no idea about anyone I never met.

398 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:43:19pm

re: #377 NJDhockeyfan

The good guys are on the way...

Groton Guard detachment is heading to Egypt

Oh, joy! A peacekeeping mission! Those always go so well.
/

399 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:44:01pm

Celts lakers in 4th qtr ... Bbl

400 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:44:13pm

re: #380 Renaissance_Man

Some wingnut blogs such as Redstate have taken a hardline stance against birtherism, and delete any mention of it. Do you think that such stances have convinced any birthers to reexamine the idea and realise it's stupid? Do you think that such stances have reduced the numbers of birthers?

Conversely, if DKos were to do something like delete this diary, do you think any of those who believe that these sort of beliefs represent 'the left' will hate 'the left' less?

That is exactly why shit like that should be fact checked and shot down immediately. Limit the exposure and te he damage from such erroneous information.

401 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:44:20pm

re: #392 000G

Tyrants are always serious about staying in power. Power is a technical problem, not one of seriousness or passion.

yet you easily dismiss the MB and what they might be capable of to attain and maintain power?...sounds to me like you just want to hear your own voice

402 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:44:50pm

re: #358 albusteve

two words...
Goldfish

Kick the habit, man!
:)

403 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:44:54pm

re: #301 Decatur Deb

Here you go!

[Link: xkcd.com...]

404 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:45:02pm

re: #394 Obdicut

You folks just love chasing your tails, don't ya?

405 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:45:30pm

re: #397 CapeCoddah

I have no desire to hunt through old LGF pages to find where you extrapolated your experiences with a subset of gay men to all gay men.

If you are now acknowledging that your anecdotal experience means jack shit in terms of how gay people actually act, I'm very glad.

406 freetoken  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:46:21pm

re: #376 000G

Well, it may not be formally a caste system, but in practice... a lot of people are stuck.

Anyway, in particular in Egypt, I wouldn't rule out the food problem. They really are quite dependent upon importing food. Now, so is Japan, but the Japanese have successfully embedded themselves into the workings of modern gadgetry to the extent that they are net exporters of stuff.

As such, I don't see Egypt as a particularly good example of a country with a bright future. It wouldn't surprise me if the trouble we see now goes on for a very long time.

407 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:46:23pm

re: #392 000G

Tyrants are always serious about staying in power. Power is a technical problem, not one of seriousness or passion.

I'm talking more about everyday life. Give me Andropov over Orthodox Christian Morality Police any day. Or perhaps Putin is a more fitting example. His authoritarian regime still has some vestiges of liberalism. If true conservative Orthodox nationalists came to power...

408 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:46:27pm

re: #404 CapeCoddah

You folks just love chasing your tails, don't ya?

No, it's actually really frustrating trying to get you to answer a simple question, not to mention being referred to as 'you folk'.

409 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:46:29pm

re: #398 Killgore Trout

Oh, joy! A peacekeeping mission! Those always go so well.
/

A C-23 is a small unarmed bean-hauler.

[Link: t0.gstatic.com...]

410 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:46:42pm

re: #401 albusteve

yet you easily dismiss the MB and what they might be capable of to attain and maintain power?...sounds to me like you just want to hear your own voice

Huh?

411 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:47:13pm

re: #396 000G

As I said in an earlier thread: The Nazi Party was also banned from elections in Postwar Germany. That does not mean that those elections were unfair or undemocratic.

And how is the MB demanding something now equal to them calling shots?

they do it via the media...make demands, trying to feel out what sort of juice they have....you need to think outside your box a bit more

412 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:47:35pm

re: #407 Sergey Romanov

I'm talking more about everyday life. Give me Andropov over Orthodox Christian Morality Police any day. Or perhaps Putin is a more fitting example. His authoritarian regime still has some vestiges of liberalism. If true conservative Orthodox nationalists came to power...

You don't think you might be a little bit biased by yourself being a rationalist atheist?

413 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:47:44pm

Note to self: in future, when making hearty cabbage bean potato soup, do not lightheartedly throw in a baggie of leftover rotini.

Rember: Pasta Expands.

414 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:48:06pm

re: #396 000G

And how is the MB demanding something now equal to them calling shots?


They are making the decisions on how to divide power, how to form the transitional government, who's going to lead it. Al JAzeera reported earlier today that the MB appointed a leader/Spokesman for the protests in Alexandria. Sorry, but it's becoming clear to me who's calling the shots.

415 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:48:15pm

re: #405 Obdicut

I have no desire to hunt through old LGF pages to find where you extrapolated your experiences with a subset of gay men to all gay men.

If you are now acknowledging that your anecdotal experience means jack shit in terms of how gay people actually act, I'm very glad.

got one on the line eh?...you having fun yet?

416 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:48:42pm

re: #411 albusteve

they do it via the media...make demands, trying to feel out what sort of juice they have...you need to think outside your box a bit more

Yeah, I hear that sort of advice on the Alex Jones show, too. Connecting too many dots where there are no connections will just end up making you paranoid, not enlightened.

417 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:49:40pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

Well, they're trying to call the shots. It's early days yet. We'll see if they succeed.

In my opinion, the media is kind of abetting the problem by treating them as though they are the ones calling the shots.

418 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:49:45pm

re: #408 Obdicut

No, it's actually really frustrating trying to get you to answer a simple question, not to mention being referred to as 'you folk'.

then why don't you move on?....you have this habit of letting yourself get all flustered and confused

419 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:49:50pm

re: #416 000G

Yeah, I hear that sort of advice on the Alex Jones show, too. Connecting too many dots where there are no connections will just end up making you paranoid, not enlightened.

So...
You deny the events on the Grassy Knoll when the Eagle landed on the "Moon"?
///

420 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:50:06pm

re: #412 000G

You don't think you might be a little bit biased by yourself being a rationalist atheist?

Maybe, but "better"/"worse" descriptors are subjective anyhow.

421 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:50:39pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

They are making the decisions on how to divide power, how to form the transitional government, who's going to lead it.

Again: How? Where?

Al JAzeera reported earlier today that the MB appointed a leader/Spokesman for the protests in Alexandria. Sorry, but it's becoming clear to me who's calling the shots.

AJ is slanted towards MB, it's even been noticed by the protestors at large themselves. And how is leading one protest tantamount of calling the shots in an upcoming election or rigging it?

422 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:52:30pm

re: #406 freetoken

Well, it may not be formally a caste system, but in practice... a lot of people are stuck.

Anyway, in particular in Egypt, I wouldn't rule out the food problem. They really are quite dependent upon importing food. Now, so is Japan, but the Japanese have successfully embedded themselves into the workings of modern gadgetry to the extent that they are net exporters of stuff.

As such, I don't see Egypt as a particularly good example of a country with a bright future. It wouldn't surprise me if the trouble we see now goes on for a very long time.

Oh, I agree. It will go on for long. But the first steps in the right direction have been taken.

On the food thing: It may be a problem, but it is not a fundamental problem, one underlying the revolution.

423 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:52:45pm

re: #394 Obdicut

If you don't get how lies like that cost lives, there is no point in explaining, Obdi.

424 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:53:39pm

re: #416 000G

Yeah, I hear that sort of advice on the Alex Jones show, too. Connecting too many dots where there are no connections will just end up making you paranoid, not enlightened.

Jones didn't invent the concept of thinking outside the box, or the media...instead of overloading yourself with people like him, you might try listening to reason...someone like KT for example...hang in there, you can do it

425 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:54:04pm

re: #419 Varek Raith

So...
You deny the events on the Grassy Knoll when the Eagle landed on the "Moon"?
///

Okay, my friend, I think you've had enough. Hand the bong over.

/

426 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:54:34pm

re: #417 Obdicut

Well, they're trying to call the shots. It's early days yet. We'll see if they succeed.

In my opinion, the media is kind of abetting the problem by treating them as though they are the ones calling the shots.

It's mostly AJ grooming them. A lot of the media is people driven right now.

Everybody is flexing muscles now. Doesn't matter a thing. What will matter is who is going to use those muscles to exert violence or refrain from it.

427 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:54:40pm

re: #425 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Okay, my friend, I think you've had enough. Hand the bong over.

/

IT'S THE FUZZ!
CHEESE IT!

428 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:55:01pm

re: #417 Obdicut

Well, they're trying to call the shots. It's early days yet. We'll see if they succeed.

In my opinion, the media is kind of abetting the problem by treating them as though they are the ones calling the shots.

agreed...controlling the media is to control your destiny

429 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:55:27pm

re: #405 Obdicut

I have no desire to hunt through old LGF pages to find where you extrapolated your experiences with a subset of gay men to all gay men.

If you are now acknowledging that your anecdotal experience means jack shit in terms of how gay people actually act, I'm very glad.

My experience was anything but anecdotal, but whatever.

430 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:56:04pm

re: #424 albusteve

Jones didn't invent the concept of thinking outside the box, or the media...instead of overloading yourself with people like him, you might try listening to reason...someone like KT for example...hang in there, you can do it

You are calling today's grandstanding in the media and flexing muscles a sure cause of already certain and specific future political events. That's paranoid baloney to me.

431 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:56:34pm

re: #408 Obdicut

No, it's actually really frustrating trying to get you to answer a simple question, not to mention being referred to as 'you folk'.

Which question would that be?

432 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:56:44pm

re: #417 Obdicut

Well, they're trying to call the shots. It's early days yet. We'll see if they succeed.

In my opinion, the media is kind of abetting the problem by treating them as though they are the ones calling the shots.

Self appointed leaders. They stand in front of the camera and claim to have organized a particular group of protesters. The reality though is that MB does indeed have support in Egypt. Much like the Islamists we too have our own version in the USA: Dominionists and the religious right. They have representation even in congress to a certain extent. Shouldn't a democratic state also include representation of these factions like we have in the USA also be included in Egypt? Or are we going to claim that while we're for freedom around the world that it is best to maintain a Mubarak dictatorship because we know what's best for them?

433 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:56:58pm

re: #382 _RememberTonyC

And sadly, incredibly evil as well ... And Evil must be defeated

Except within yourself, it's not possible.

434 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:58:12pm

re: #423 CapeCoddah

If you don't get how lies like that cost lives, there is no point in explaining, Obdi.

That's simply a dodge. I'm an honest person who's trying to actually understand your point of view. You're simply refusing to answer in any meaningful way, and dismissing me at the same time. It's not a convincing argument.

The diary itself is a smear, a bad thing. The responses to that diary, the comments, which are just as accessible as the diary itself is, are a repudiation of the diary.

So I have no clue why you choose to treat the diary as though it is the only thing visible, and that the comments are not, or that the diary is somehow more influential or important than the comments. Or that people won't be more swayed by the many, many, many, many comments attacking the post and calling it bullshit, than will be swayed by the diary-- especially since you think people who would believe the diary would believe it anyway.

435 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:58:36pm

re: #429 CapeCoddah

My experience was anything but anecdotal, but whatever.

Your experience is the goddamn definition of anecdotal.

436 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:59:37pm

re: #432 Gus 802

Self appointed leaders. They stand in front of the camera and claim to have organized a particular group of protesters. The reality though is that MB does indeed have support in Egypt. Much like the Islamists we too have our own version in the USA: Dominionists and the religious right. They have representation even in congress to a certain extent. Shouldn't a democratic state also include representation of these factions like we have in the USA also be included in Egypt? Or are we going to claim that while we're for freedom around the world that it is best to maintain a Mubarak dictatorship because we know what's best for them?

The problem is that Egypt does not have an Establishment Clause at this moment. The constitution of the free Egpytian state has yet to be crafted. It is reasonable to fear tyrannical forces sabotaging the process. However, it is unreasonable to fearmonger. Could a meteor fall from the sky next year and wipe Egypt off the map? Sure, but…

437 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:59:40pm

re: #432 Gus 802

I'm not touching the issue of what the opposition should or should not do (although I have hopes about the end result) but I do think that comparison with the US is not fully satisfactory. I don't like the term "American exceptionalism", but in some ways the US is unique and what works there does not necessarily work in Europe or ME.

438 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:00:00pm

re: #417 Obdicut

In my opinion, the media is kind of abetting the problem by treating them as though they are the ones calling the shots.


I think it's the other way around. The MB, while still calling the shots, is trying to publicly downplay its role in the protests and the future of Egypt. I just finished reading this....
Background: Who are the Muslim Brothers?


Today, the Muslim Brothers in Egypt are led by Muhammad Badi, elected as head of the organization in 2010, who is considered too meek and uncharismatic a character to gain the backing of the multitudes of Egyptians trying to force out their government, according to Prof. Elie Podeh of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem’s Department of Islamic and Middle Eastern Studies.

“We’ve heard nothing from Badi since the beginning of this,” he said.

Podeh said that while the exact popularity of the Brothers cannot be measured due to the lack of democracy in Egypt, 2005’s parliamentary elections did see 88 Muslim Brotherhood representatives – who ran as independents to bypass the law – voted into the 454- member parliament.

By the time the 2010 parliamentary elections were held in November, the regime had become alarmed at their influence, and not one Muslim Brotherhood candidate won a seat.

“That means that 88 out 454 is the minimum number of seats they could win, and their popularity could be greater,” Podeh said. “The regime is very afraid of them.”

Podeh said the Brotherhood could now be deliberately lowering its own profile in the current crisis as a deception tactic, while supporting the uprising.

Should free elections ever be held in Egypt, the Brothers have a reasonable chance of winning, he said. “Clearly this is a possibility.

This is the most organized opposition in Egypt. The rest of the opposition groups are are a rabble.”


Read the whole thing. It also contradicts the myth some people keep repeating about the MB being outlawed simply because they oppose Mubarak.

439 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:00:13pm

re: #434 Obdicut

That's simply a dodge. I'm an honest person who's trying to actually understand your point of view. You're simply refusing to answer in any meaningful way, and dismissing me at the same time. It's not a convincing argument.

The diary itself is a smear, a bad thing. The responses to that diary, the comments, which are just as accessible as the diary itself is, are a repudiation of the diary.

So I have no clue why you choose to treat the diary as though it is the only thing visible, and that the comments are not, or that the diary is somehow more influential or important than the comments. Or that people won't be more swayed by the many, many, many, many comments attacking the post and calling it bullshit, than will be swayed by the diary-- especially since you think people who would believe the diary would believe it anyway.

HArdly a dodge. Lots of peopple hate Jews. Lets give the Palestinians another lie, as an excuse to lob missiles, shall we?
Or perhaps Iran? Or any random nut.

440 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:00:18pm

FaezaMoghul Faeza Moghul
RT @TravellerW: Brotherhood, @ElBaradei and other politicians trying to ride the wave of protests. You are NOT welcome here! #Egypt #Jan25

FaezaMoghul Faeza Moghul
RE: @ElBaradei RT @TravellerW: @FaezaMoghul i know & it's pissing me off…He's just a guy who flew in from Vienna to lead us, apparently. Pff
1 minute ago Favo

441 webevintage  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:02:35pm

re: #378 CapeCoddah

Scott Brown. And no, he never was a Tea Partier. You can lead a horse to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

But you can have a really sweet truck to drag your horse trailer around....

442 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:03:23pm

re: #435 Obdicut

Your experience is the goddamn definition of anecdotal.

Your opinion.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own set of facts. (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

443 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:05:03pm

re: #439 CapeCoddah

The Palestinians don't need to read diaries on DKOS to lob missiles at Israel. They don't need a 'reason'. Those Palestinians that do it, do it because they are anti-Semites who believe Israel has no right to exist.

Seriously. You think Iran is hemming on hawing on whether to send more money to Hamas and then, suddenly, they read a diary on DKOS-- one with about fifty comments saying it's bullshit-- and they suddenly fund the terrorist?

You do keep dodging the fact that the comments repudiate the article. You can't explain why you think that's unimportant. Instead, you claim that if I don't get it, it's not worth explaining to me-- which is a classic, stupid rhetorical dodge.

444 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:05:20pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

I think it's the other way around. The MB, while still calling the shots, is trying to publicly downplay its role in the protests and the future of Egypt. I just finished reading this...
Background: Who are the Muslim Brothers?


Read the whole thing. It also contradicts the myth some people keep repeating about the MB being outlawed simply because they oppose Mubarak.

That article has quite of a gap in retelling the MB's history between 1966 and 2009…

445 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:05:29pm

Like it or not Mubarak is going down.

446 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:05:41pm

re: #430 000G

You are calling today's grandstanding in the media and flexing muscles a sure cause of already certain and specific future political events. That's paranoid baloney to me.

where did I say that?...show me
suggesting we are falling for a Van Jones paradigm is insulting...and btw, Killgores track record speaks for itself...he has an uncanny ability to see things that you obviously won't...I suspect you think your rep is at stake over this MB issue and choose to be inflexible....whatever

447 webevintage  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:05:41pm

I see via Twitter that activist/middle class folks are outside the Koch Brothers "rich folks" to-do in Palm Springs and Andrew Breitbart is there filming.
I wonder how he'll edit the protest?

448 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:06:11pm

re: #442 CapeCoddah

Your opinion.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own set of facts. (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

No. The definition of anecdotal evidence is evidence based off of personal experience.

You are entirely right. You're not entitled to your own set of facts. And yet, somehow, you want to deny that your own experience constitutes anecdotal evidence.

449 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:06:55pm

re: #443 Obdicut

The Palestinians don't need to read diaries on DKOS to lob missiles at Israel. They don't need a 'reason'. Those Palestinians that do it, do it because they are anti-Semites who believe Israel has no right to exist.

Seriously. You think Iran is hemming on hawing on whether to send more money to Hamas and then, suddenly, they read a diary on DKOS-- one with about fifty comments saying it's bullshit-- and they suddenly fund the terrorist?

You do keep dodging the fact that the comments repudiate the article. You can't explain why you think that's unimportant. Instead, you claim that if I don't get it, it's not worth explaining to me-- which is a classic, stupid rhetorical dodge.

And the poster got the story where? Pulled it out of his ass?

450 webevintage  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:07:16pm

re: #447 webevintage

I see via Twitter that activist/middle class folks are outside the Koch Brothers "rich folks" to-do in Palm Springs and Andrew Breitbart is there filming.
I wonder how he'll edit the protest?

On Twitter:
BobBrigham
OK, nice sign: "Only Boehners Tears Trickle Down #UncloakKoch

451 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:07:16pm

re: #446 albusteve

where did I say that?...show me
suggesting we are falling for a Van Jones paradigm is insulting...and btw, Killgores track record speaks for itself...he has an uncanny ability to see things that you obviously won't...I suspect you think your rep is at stake over this MB issue and choose to be inflexible...whatever

Van Jones? Alex Jones.

Not interested in any rep.

Silly.

452 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:07:44pm

re: #448 Obdicut

No. The definition of anecdotal evidence is evidence based off of personal experience.

You are entirely right. You're not entitled to your own set of facts. And yet, somehow, you want to deny that your own experience constitutes anecdotal evidence.

My life experiences are my facts.

453 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:09:01pm

re: #451 000G

Van Jones? Alex Jones.

Not interested in any rep.

Silly.

heh...of course not

454 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:09:31pm

re: #452 CapeCoddah

My life experiences are my facts.

And they're anecdotal evidence. And if you can't look beyond your own personal experiences to try to understand the actual truth, that's foolish.

455 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:10:23pm

Fuck it. I'm making chili.

456 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:10:49pm

re: #449 CapeCoddah

And the poster got the story where? Pulled it out of his ass?

If the poster is just passing it along from another source isn't Conservative Moonbat just as guilty for linking to it?

457 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:11:47pm

re: #446 albusteve

where did I say that?...show me

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

458 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:12:12pm

re: #446 albusteve

where did I say that?...show me
suggesting we are falling for a Van Jones paradigm is insulting...and btw, Killgores track record speaks for itself...he has an uncanny ability to see things that you obviously won't...I suspect you think your rep is at stake over this MB issue and choose to be inflexible...whatever

Has been proven over and over . . .

459 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:12:51pm

re: #384 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. An equivalency test.

I am pretty pissed at Zombie about that POS essay, and I remain so.

"Zombie" is full on wingnut writing about the "Obama-Piven" strategy at the execrable PajamasMedia.

460 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:14:22pm

re: #447 webevintage

I see via Twitter that activist/middle class folks are outside the Koch Brothers "rich folks" to-do in Palm Springs and Andrew Breitbart is there filming.
I wonder how he'll edit the protest?

"Unwashed Hordes Storm Galt's Gulch".

461 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:14:31pm

Also worth pointing out that the likelyhood of MB getting a plurality of seats in an election is not equal to the hypothetical scenario of them setting up Iran 2.0 nor that this scenario would even be likely to follow.

462 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:14:44pm

re: #444 000G

That article has quite of a gap in retelling the MB's history between 1966 and 2009…

Fill in the gaps....
but then it would have been a much longer article.

463 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:14:48pm

re: #450 webevintage

On Twitter:
BobBrigham
OK, nice sign: "Only Boehners Tears Trickle Down #UncloakKoch

Heh. And speaking of Boehner's tears, anyone else notices that he only cries for himself? That's what makes it such an utterly repulsive trait.

464 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:14:49pm

re: #459 Sergey Romanov

"Zombie" is full on wingnut writing about the "Obama-Piven" strategy at the execrable PajamasMedia.

Here, drink a cup of crazy:

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

465 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:15:00pm

re: #459 Sergey Romanov

"Zombie" is full on wingnut writing about the "Obama-Piven" strategy at the execrable PajamasMedia.

Thing is, Zomb's coverage of anti-Semitism and general stupidity at the anti-war rallies earned him/her a warm following of Jewish liberals in the Bay Area.

I started to worry, as I've said before, around the time he/she started the weirdness about phone banking for Obama.

466 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:15:40pm

re: #462 Killgore Trout

Fill in the gaps...
but then it would have been a much longer article.

It says there: "Source: Wikipedia"

And we already discussed the Wikipedia entry on the MB vs actual scholarly literature the other day already.

467 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:16:12pm

re: #461 000G

Also worth pointing out that the likelyhood of MB getting a plurality of seats in an election is not equal to the hypothetical scenario of them setting up Iran 2.0 nor that this scenario would even be likely to follow.

What part of global Islamic caliphate and destruction of Israel do you not understand?

468 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:16:25pm

gnah
break

469 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:16:34pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

Thing is, Zomb's coverage of anti-Semitism and general stupidity at the anti-war rallies earned him/her a warm following of Jewish liberals in the Bay Area.

I started to worry, as I've said before, around the time he/she started the weirdness about phone banking for Obama.

What about the phone banking?

470 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:16:37pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, the stuff about phone-banking I don't know, and I suspect this is in line with all the other stuff.

471 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:16:48pm

re: #456 recusancy

If the poster is just passing it along from another source isn't Conservative Moonbat just as guilty for linking to it?

No. CM pointed out the problem. Kos is allowing it to stand. That is disgusting, but, then Kos has never been known for his love of Jews. I find defending the fact that the post is still there disturbing.
There was absolutely no truth to the right wing rehtoric talk involved in the Arizona shooting and it is well proven, but lots of folks here jumped on that bandwagon, simply because they detest the right.
The fact that a governor was targeted by a left wing nut who DID have political motive and actually slit the throat of a school dean he mistook for the governor in an attack a few months ago never made more than the local news. Because of the left wing bias in the news.
The hypocrisy is jaw dropping.

472 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:17:08pm

re: #467 Killgore Trout

What part of global Islamic caliphate and destruction of Israel do you not understand?

Well then. I guess we better get ready to invade Egypt!

//

473 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:17:21pm

PNAC

//

474 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:17:57pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Well then. I guess we better get ready to invade Egypt!

//

The Israelis are already preparing for that eventuality.

475 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:18:36pm

re: #435 Obdicut

Your experience is the goddamn definition of anecdotal.

ding!

476 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:18:37pm

Here comes the war paint.

477 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:18:38pm

re: #463 publicityStunted

Heh. And speaking of Boehner's tears, anyone else notices that he only cries for himself? That's what makes it such an utterly repulsive trait.

I don't get it. He has cried for the children of America a few times, no (for instance)?

478 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:18:45pm

re: #467 Killgore Trout

What part of global Islamic caliphate and destruction of Israel do you not understand?

And propagandist hype is relevant to the actual development of the political reality how?

479 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:18:54pm

break now 4 reeeeeeel

480 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:19:06pm

Yeah. Down with the protesters in Egypt.

Long live Hosni Mubarak!

//

481 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:19:13pm

re: #477 Winny Spencer

I don't get it. He has cried for the children of America a few times, no (for instance)?

He cried for the children of america to grow up and be him.

482 bratwurst  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:20:58pm

re: #471 CapeCoddah


There was absolutely no truth to the right wing rehtoric talk involved in the Arizona shooting and it is well proven

Oh brother.

483 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:21:08pm

re: #467 Killgore Trout

What part of global Islamic caliphate and destruction of Israel do you not understand?

It's not just anti Israel sentiment

Al Qaradawi praising Hitler's antisemitism

Youtube Video
484 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:21:10pm

re: #480 Gus 802

Yeah. Down with the protesters in Egypt.

Long live Hosni Mubarak!

//

Nice part is none of this conversation matters. Hell, I don't think the conversation in Tel Aviv or Washington matters. I don't think the IDF + USMC could keep Mubarak in power now. He's done. Everyone will be accepting that reality in the next 48 hours I'd say.

485 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:21:36pm

re: #471 CapeCoddah


There was absolutely no truth to the right wing rehtoric talk involved in the Arizona shooting and it is well proven, but lots of folks here jumped on that bandwagon, simply because they detest the right.

Charles Johnson = folks

486 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:21:42pm

re: #480 Gus 802

Yeah. Down with the protesters in Egypt.

Long live Hosni Mubarak!

//

That's exactly what those who are concerned about the ascendancy of the Muslim Brotherhood are saying.

//

487 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:22:21pm

re: #482 bratwurst

Oh brother.

hahaha I know rite?

488 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:23:23pm

Al Qaradawi praising Hitler's antisemitism

489 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:23:46pm

re: #469 recusancy

What about the phone banking?

During the campaign, Zombie posted to the blog about going to a phone-banking for Obama event, to check out the opposition. Why the hell anyone would waste their time going to a phone-banking even for a politician they didn't like was beyond me for a moment, but it eventually sort of made sense.

Well, no it didn't.

It was one of these newfangled things where you meet people at the park on your lunch break and phonebank on your cellphone. Zombie showed up and cellphoned, and seemed, I have to say, way more amazed by the process than anyone who thinks they know crap about politics should be.

But the last passage pricked my ears up:

But most disturbingly of all: The Obama campaign knows the name, phone number and address (as the assistant told me) of each person called; and we volunteers do in fact mark down the voting preferences of each individual. So, through phone banks like these, should Obama in fact become president (and even if he doesn’t), he and his team will have a pretty extensive list of everyone who voted against him.

Hmmmm.

Food for thought.

Thank God, a number of Zombie readers were Republicans from Planet Earth, and explained in the comments that this is how you phonebank, and that they were doing the same thing for McCain, had done for Bush and Dole, etc.

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:24:11pm

re: #471 CapeCoddah

No. CM pointed out the problem. Kos is allowing it to stand. That is disgusting, but, then Kos has never been known for his love of Jews. I find defending the fact that the post is still there disturbing.
There was absolutely no truth to the right wing rehtoric talk involved in the Arizona shooting and it is well proven, but lots of folks here jumped on that bandwagon, simply because they detest the right.
The fact that a governor was targeted by a left wing nut who DID have political motive and actually slit the throat of a school dean he mistook for the governor in an attack a few months ago never made more than the local news. Because of the left wing bias in the news.
The hypocrisy is jaw dropping.

I wondered how long it would take to get to this point.

491 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:24:33pm

1954-1970: CIA and the Muslim Brotherhood Ally to Oppose Egyptian President Nasser

In 1954, Egyptian President Gamal Abddul Nasser’s nationalist policies in Egypt come to be viewed as completely unacceptable by Britain and the US. MI6 and the CIA jointly hatch plans for his assassination. According to Miles Copeland, a CIA operative based in Egypt, the opposition to Nasser is driven by the commercial community—the oil companies and the banks. At the same time, the Muslim Brotherhood’s resentment of Nasser’s secular government also comes to a head. In one incident, Islamist militants attack pro-Nasser students at Cairo University. Following an attempt on his own life by the Brotherhood, Nasser responds immediately by outlawing the group, which he denounces as a tool of Britain. The following years see a long and complex struggle pitting Nasser against the Muslim Brotherhood, the US, and Britain. The CIA funnels support to the Muslim Brotherhood because of “the Brotherhood’s commendable capability to overthrow Nasser.” [Baer, 2003, pp. 99; Dreyfuss, 2005, pp. 101-108] The Islamist regime in Saudi Arabia becomes an ally of the United States in the conflict with Nasser. They offer financial backing and sanctuary to Muslim Brotherhood militants during Nasser’s crackdown. Nasser dies of natural causes in 1970. [Dreyfuss, 2005, pp. 90-91, 126-131, 150]

492 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:24:37pm

re: #482 bratwurst

Oh brother.

No opinion on the left wing nut who slit the deans throat?
LOL!

493 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:24:53pm

re: #478 000G

And propagandist hype is relevant to the actual development of the political reality how?

Those are their own stated goals. They openly support Hamas and terrorism against Israelis. They openly oppose Egypt's peace treaty with Israel and their own stated goal is to establish a theocratic Muslim caliphate. These are not secrets and they aren't smears. Your complete rejection of basic and easily verifiable facts tells me you aren't interested in a serious debate so I'll just drop it.

494 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:25:01pm

Theologian of Terror

495 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:25:01pm

re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah. Yeah that is pretty nutty.

496 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:25:02pm

[whistling]

497 kirkspencer  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:25:10pm

re: #487 WindUpBird

hahaha I know rite?

Beck reminds everyone about Casey Brezik on the 25th of January, and suddenly there's a flood of comments of this sort on various sites.

// Brezik was intentional, Loughner wasn't, and nevermind their individual comments and histories.

498 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:25:21pm

re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist

During the campaign, Zombie posted to the blog about going to a phone-banking for Obama event, to check out the opposition. Why the hell anyone would waste their time going to a phone-banking event for a politician they didn't like was beyond me for a moment, but it eventually sort of made sense.

PIMF

499 bratwurst  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:25:28pm

re: #487 WindUpBird

hahaha I know rite?

Well to be fair, it is "proven" every bit as much as her anecdotal experience of meeting "hundreds" of gay men proves her assertions about homosexuals.

500 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:26:04pm

re: #490 SanFranciscoZionist

I wondered how long it would take to get to this point.

Running the table with the bottom comments

501 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:26:37pm

Just for the record:

[Link: blogs.riverfronttimes.com...]

The paper reports that Brezik was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia several years ago and had only recently enrolled at the community college. His family says Brezik has a habit of writing anti-government rants on his Facebook page. In 2007 he was committed to mental hospitals at least four times and convicted of drug possession. He wears an anarchist symbol tattoo on his arm.

502 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:26:53pm

re: #490 SanFranciscoZionist

I wondered how long it would take to get to this point.

Right. It matters not. I keep forgetting. Real, left wing violence, unreported, with clear political motivations... Shhhhh.
No evidence of right wing involvement in a schitzophrenic murder, ... make it up.

503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:27:01pm

Just left a 96 year old lady's funeral.

Found out that my "prim, snooty, proper" (I love her anyway) Aunt is the daughter of a backwoods bootlegger.

And they say funerals can't be fun.

504 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:27:23pm

re: #500 WindUpBird

Running the table with the bottom comments

Not quite a sweep, just yet...

505 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:28:53pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She still bootlegging? That's be even more fun!

506 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:28:56pm

re: #435 Obdicut

Your experience is the goddamn definition of anecdotal.

Heh. Apparently that thing about not being able to choose one's own facts wasn't meant to be taken too seriously.

507 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:29:29pm

re: #499 bratwurst

Well to be fair, it is "proven" every bit as much as her anecdotal experience of meeting "hundreds" of gay men proves her assertions about homosexuals.

Hundreds! :D

I should dig up that old conversation, IIRC, Capecoddah's gay anecdotes didn't really stand up to scrutiny, and her posts became increasingly fragmented and difficult to parse

508 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:29:35pm

re: #491 Gus 802

1954-1970: CIA and the Muslim Brotherhood Ally to Oppose Egyptian President Nasser

C'mon...seriously?
Robert Dreyfuss

Robert Dreyfuss is a freelance investigative journalist whose work has appeared in The Nation, Rolling Stone, Mother Jones, The American Prospect, and other progressive publications. His work also appears on line at TomPaine.com.

Dreyfuss received a bachelor's degree from Columbia University. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Dreyfuss was Middle East Intelligence director of the Executive Intelligence Review, the flagship journal of the Lyndon LaRouche movement.[1][2] His 1981 book, Hostage to Khomeini, was commissioned by Lyndon LaRouche[3] and it was cowritten with Thierry LeMarc. The book was published by the LaRouche publishing house of the time, New Benjamin Franklin House.[4][5


Give me a fucking break

509 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:30:03pm

re: #501 Sergey Romanov

Just for the record:

[Link: blogs.riverfronttimes.com...]

It should also be pointed out that the intended-target governor is a Democrat.

Yup, that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the killer is a dKos-reading lefty 9_9

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:30:07pm

re: #495 recusancy

Ah. Yeah that is pretty nutty.

Zombie just got--weirder--after a certain point--and I started to interact with him/her here and realized some things I hadn't gotten before--for example, just how much hostility there was behind some of the photo-essays on events like Folsom. We had a rousing fight one fine night about whether gay men still had the average number of partners reported in the seventies. And s/he had this whole thing about how s/he couldn't reveal his/her identity or let ANYONE in his/her family know s/he wasn't a left-liberal.

I still don't know if something went bad wrong with Zomb, or if I just liked it when s/he was taking on people I dislike, and overlooked some warning signs.

511 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:30:12pm

re: #457 000G

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I didn't predict certainty in that post....I didn't in any post

512 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:30:14pm

re: #508 Killgore Trout

C'mon...seriously?
Robert Dreyfuss

Give me a fucking break

Well damn KT you go me. I didn't check my source.

OK, you can carry on with your right wing talking points.

513 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:30:26pm

re: #501 Sergey Romanov

Just for the record:

[Link: blogs.riverfronttimes.com...]

Look at the second hit....."Far left activist"...

We can all pick and choose.

514 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:31:01pm

re: #455 Obdicut

Fuck it. I'm making chili.

thanks

515 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:31:05pm

oh man, AP video of protester getting shot in the streets

[Link: video.ap.org...]

516 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:31:16pm

re: #504 Floral Giraffe

Not quite a sweep, just yet...

it's going to take a lot to knock that Mussolini myth off the board :D

517 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:31:36pm

re: #507 WindUpBird

Hundreds! :D

I should dig up that old conversation, IIRC, Capecoddah's gay anecdotes didn't really stand up to scrutiny, and her posts became increasingly fragmented and difficult to parse

Oh, please, look it up.

518 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:31:42pm

I get the feeling that I'd be downdinged if I mentioned how shitty my anecdotal experience with those of faith has been.
But what do I know, I'm going to hell anyway.
/Stirring the pot.

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:31:55pm

re: #502 CapeCoddah

Right. It matters not. I keep forgetting. Real, left wing violence, unreported, with clear political motivations... Shhh.
No evidence of right wing involvement in a schitzophrenic murder, ... make it up.

I'm sure that's what I said.

520 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:32:07pm

Long live Mubarak! Down with the protesters!

521 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:32:25pm

re: #502 CapeCoddah

Right. It matters not. I keep forgetting. Real, left wing violence, unreported, with clear political motivations... Shhh.
No evidence of right wing involvement in a schitzophrenic murder, ... make it up.

Your argument would be better if you also showed which systemic, widespread voices on 'the left' were calling for such politically motivated violence and revolution, which were Casey Brezik's stated goals. Or if you were consistent in referring to both criminals as schizophrenic, instead of insinuating that one is a cold-blooded assassin while the other is not. Or, indeed, if you were to address the actual point, which is that there are systemic, widely broadcast demagogues that are in fact using violent, seditious rhetoric and revolutionary talk, and that none of them would be described as 'leftist'.

It is, of course, easier to pretend the media is liberal and just repeat the wingnut blog talking point du jour.

522 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:32:58pm

re: #520 Gus 802

Long live Mubarak! Down with the protesters!

If anything, various reactions are interesting to watch.

523 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:33:23pm

re: #505 Floral Giraffe

She still bootlegging? That's be even more fun!

Nah. My Aunt is 81. This was the funeral for her step-mother who was also her aunt. Yeah. You read that right.

I SWEAR TO GOD!

524 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:33:44pm

re: #523 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nah. My Aunt is 81. This was the funeral for her step-mother who was also her aunt. Yeah. You read that right.

I SWEAR TO GOD!

Lol.

525 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:34:23pm

re: #501 Sergey Romanov

Just for the record:

[Link: blogs.riverfronttimes.com...]

Far left activist.... read his own words...

526 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:35:12pm

re: #501 Sergey Romanov

I used to work with a guy in my health care gig, he was about 70, mildly mentally disabled (from spinal meningitis, IIRC) but also had a temper problem, prone to outbursts and he'd occasionally just shout out random scary outbursts to freak out the staff

stuff about killing the president, stuff about wanting to rape kids, burn the group home down, making sexist comments about the staff, just whatever he could do that would make staff go OH MY GOD

And because this was like 2003 when I worked at this place and Bush was president, CapeCoddah would be clearly labeling this guy a "leftist", just as Glenn beck ordered her to. :D

527 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:35:27pm

re: #523 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nah. My Aunt is 81. This was the funeral for her step-mother who was also her aunt. Yeah. You read that right.

I SWEAR TO GOD!

Carry the 2..nope, still don't like it!

/// I get funny looks when I mention my double-first cousins. You have my sympathy.

528 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:35:28pm

re: #510 SanFranciscoZionist

Zombie just got--weirder--after a certain point--and I started to interact with him/her here and realized some things I hadn't gotten before--for example, just how much hostility there was behind some of the photo-essays on events like Folsom. We had a rousing fight one fine night about whether gay men still had the average number of partners reported in the seventies. And s/he had this whole thing about how s/he couldn't reveal his/her identity or let ANYONE in his/her family know s/he wasn't a left-liberal.

I still don't know if something went bad wrong with Zomb, or if I just liked it when s/he was taking on people I dislike, and overlooked some warning signs.

Zombie was a liar...a flat out fraud who had a tremendous ego

529 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:35:35pm

re: #522 Sergey Romanov

If anything, various reactions are interesting to watch.

We'll see what happens in Egypt. No amount of talking on our part will change the outcome. It's no longer a matter of Mubarak blowing up in our face. That's past tense now. Again, the emphasis on MB is an over simplification of what's going on in Egypt right now.

530 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:36:58pm

"In his “About Me” box on Facebook, Brezik listed as his favorite quotation one from progressive poster boy, Che Guevara. The quote begins “Our every action is a battle cry against imperialism” and gets more belligerent from there.

On his wall postings, Brezik ranted, “How are we the radical(s) (left) to confront the NEW RIGHT, if we avoid confrontation all together?”

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:37:04pm

re: #529 Gus 802

Oversimplification, but a true concern as well.

532 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:37:04pm

re: #512 Gus 802

Well damn KT you go me. I didn't check my source.

OK, you can carry on with your right wing talking points.

wtf?...that isn't right wing...if you think it is, then what are the left wing talking points?....enlighten me

533 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:37:19pm

re: #529 Gus 802

We'll see what happens in Egypt. No amount of talking on our part will change the outcome. It's no longer a matter of Mubarak blowing up in our face. That's past tense now. Again, the emphasis on MB is an over simplification of what's going on in Egypt right now.

We'll see. I'll discount the Brotherhood once things are quasi-stable and we can see what emerges.

Right now, I honestly have no one to root for, and I'm worried as hell.

534 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:37:45pm

re: #517 CapeCoddah

Oh, please, look it up.

I did. It's a clearly schizophrenic guy hallucinating. I used to work with schizophrenics for a living. I know what happens when they hallucinate and then attack people. because one attacked me, another time she attacked a downs syndrome guy in a wheelchair, just beat on this quite guy in the group home with her fists until two of us pulled her off of him.

You're a pretty dumb person!

535 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:38:30pm

re: #534 WindUpBird

I did. It's a clearly schizophrenic guy hallucinating. I used to work with schizophrenics for a living. I know what happens when they hallucinate and then attack people. because one attacked me, another time she attacked a downs syndrome guy in a wheelchair, just beat on this quite guy in the group home with her fists until two of us pulled her off of him.

You're a pretty dumb person!

Yep, LOl, Thats me!

536 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:38:38pm

re: #529 Gus 802

We'll see what happens in Egypt. No amount of talking on our part will change the outcome. It's no longer a matter of Mubarak blowing up in our face. That's past tense now. Again, the emphasis on MB is an over simplification of what's going on in Egypt right now.

so you disregard the albu mind meld?....you think I cannot control events from this keyboard?

537 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:38:54pm

I'm not a doctor foreign policy expert but I play one on TV the internet.

538 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:39:21pm

re: #537 Gus 802

I'm not a doctor foreign policy expert but I play one on TV the internet.

I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express!

539 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:39:29pm

re: #506 Jimmah

Hey, hope you are all well!

540 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:39:44pm

re: #533 SanFranciscoZionist
Beg to differ.
We have the Egyptian people to root for, as in reconstructing a better nation for themselves. Root for their movement and protest to be genuine and unexploited by anyone.

541 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:40:10pm

re: #534 WindUpBird

So just to be clear, the left wing radical was schitzophrenic, the Arizona guy is just a right wing nut, with absolutely no evidence to back it up? Right? His schitzophrenia had nothig to do with it?

542 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:40:22pm

re: #527 McSpiff

Carry the 2..nope, still don't like it!

/// I get funny looks when I mention my double-first cousins. You have my sympathy.

Her Aunt moved in to help out with the children when her mother died. Aunt and dad got hitched.

It's a story as old as the hills.

Hillbilly that is;
Set a spell;
Take yer shoes off;
Y'all come back now, y'hear?

543 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:40:30pm

re: #532 albusteve

wtf?...that isn't right wing...if you think it is, then what are the left wing talking points?...enlighten me

Oh nothing. Just the stupid "gotcha moment" kind of got on my nerves.

544 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:40:35pm

That Brezik had far left (not necessarily liberal) views that "aimed" his schizophrenia should not be discounted. Same is true for Loughner.

545 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:41:34pm

re: #540 Rightwingconspirator

Beg to differ.
We have the Egyptian people to root for, as in reconstructing a better nation for themselves. Root for their movement and protest to be genuine and unexploited by anyone.

We can always hope. I'm pretty cynical about these things.

546 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:41:34pm

re: #541 CapeCoddah


all right wingers are inherently nuts

547 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:41:51pm

re: #537 Gus 802

I'm not a doctor foreign policy expert but I play one on TV the internet.

people take this blog shit way too serious....they get too aggressive guarding their towering intellect and mind bending powers of deduction...then there is me

548 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:42:03pm

re: #544 Sergey Romanov

That Brezik had far left (not necessarily liberal) views that "aimed" his schizophrenia should not be discounted. Same is true for Loughner.

There is no evidence that Loughner was political at all. Please provide some. I provided evidence to back up my point.
Everyone interviewed about Loughner, who was close to him, says he had no political leanings at all.

549 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:42:27pm

re: #546 SpaceJesus

all right wingers are inherently nuts

Thank you. That is the epitomy of liberal kindness.

550 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:42:31pm

re: #526 WindUpBird

An attention whore, maybe?

551 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:43:05pm

re: #543 Gus 802

Oh nothing. Just the stupid "gotcha moment" kind of got on my nerves.

APPLAUSE!
without you, this blog would be one less person, I want you to know that bro

552 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:43:09pm

re: #549 CapeCoddah

Thank you. That is the epitomy of liberal kindness.

So drool.

553 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:43:45pm

re: #544 Sergey Romanov

That Brezik had far left (not necessarily liberal) views that "aimed" his schizophrenia should not be discounted. Same is true for Loughner.

if you can find me mainstream television that is spouting combative and violent leftist rhetoric, let me know

I can definitely find that stuff! If I hunt on the internet. But I have to venture far from mainstream television and syndicated radio to find it. I can't just turn on Fox News and find a whole bunch of Che Guevara and Sieze The Means of Production and They're Coming For Us

554 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:44:14pm

re: #507 WindUpBird

Hundreds! :D

I should dig up that old conversation, IIRC, Capecoddah's gay anecdotes didn't really stand up to scrutiny, and her posts became increasingly fragmented and difficult to parse

Here it is

555 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:44:25pm

re: #552 McSpiff

So drool.

Well, thats an embarrassing typo. Sigh. Shouldn't cook and post.

556 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:44:41pm

re: #504 Floral Giraffe

Not quite a sweep, just yet...

How are you doing Floral? re: #539 Floral Giraffe

Hey, hope you are all well!

Hi Floral! Busy here, but well. Ice says Hi!

Hope everything is well with you.

557 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:44:44pm

re: #541 CapeCoddah

So just to be clear, the left wing radical was schitzophrenic, the Arizona guy is just a right wing nut, with absolutely no evidence to back it up? Right? His schitzophrenia had nothig to do with it?

you know, Charles already covered this, and we've already shot down a dozen other people who said precisely the same things you're saying

You are so very late to the party

558 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:45:10pm

re: #552 McSpiff

So drool.

That is a command, btw.

559 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:45:12pm

re: #554 publicityStunted

2200 comments! Oh memories :D

560 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:45:13pm

re: #546 SpaceJesus

all right wingers are inherently nuts

No, but they believe something different than left wingers.

561 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:45:27pm

re: #552 McSpiff

So drool.

Smoooooch!

562 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:45:46pm

re: #557 WindUpBird

you know, Charles already covered this, and we've already shot down a dozen other people who said precisely the same things you're saying

You are so very late to the party

Bummer.

563 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:46:57pm

re: #556 Jimmah

All good here!
Ice's got mail.
*smooch*

564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:47:08pm

re: #555 McSpiff

Well, thats an embarrassing typo. Sigh. Shouldn't cook and post.

I can't hear the term "How droll" without hearing Alan Rickman's voice saying it.

"By Grathbar's Hammer" guy.

Really good at falling slow mo - face up - from a skyscraper.

565 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:47:31pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

if you can find me mainstream television that is spouting combative and violent leftist rhetoric, let me know

I can definitely find that stuff! If I hunt on the internet. But I have to venture far from mainstream television and syndicated radio to find it. I can't just turn on Fox News and find a whole bunch of Che Guevara and Sieze The Means of Production and They're Coming For Us

That is also true. Meanwhile our friend tries to discount Loughner's anti-govt, anti-immigrant, "gold standard" stances. At least she doesn't claim he was a leftist.

566 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:48:08pm

re: #559 WindUpBird

2200 comments! Oh memories :D

I had fun on that thread.

567 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:49:02pm

From the Library of Alexandria:

To our friends around the world: The Events in Egypt

The world has witnessed an unprecedented popular action in the streets of Egypt. Led by Egypt’s youth, with their justified demands for more freedom, more democracy, lower prices for necessities and more employment opportunities. These youths demanded immediate and far-reaching changes. This was met by violent conflicts with the police, who were routed. The army was called in and was welcomed by the demonstrators, but initially their presence was more symbolic than active. Events deteriorated as lawless bands of thugs, and maybe agents provocateurs, appeared and looting began. The young people organized themselves into groups that directed traffic, protected neighborhoods and guarded public buildings of value such as the Egyptian Museum and the Library of Alexandria. They are collaborating with the army. This makeshift arrangement is in place until full public order returns.

The library is safe thanks to Egypt’s youth, whether they be the staff of the Library or the representatives of the demonstrators, who are joining us in guarding the building from potential vandals and looters. I am there daily within the bounds of the curfew hours. However, the Library will be closed to the public for the next few days until the curfew is lifted and events unfold towards an end to the lawlessness and a move towards the resolution of the political issues that triggered the demonstrations.

Ismail Serageldin
Librarian of Alexandria
Director of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina

568 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:50:37pm

re: #563 Floral Giraffe

All good here!
Ice's got mail.
*smooch*

Cool - Ice says she will email you back tomorrow :)

569 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:50:42pm

re: #567 NJDhockeyfan

Do you think he knows we burned it down?

570 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:51:02pm

Gus has splodey head...

Film @ 11.

Sorry KT.

571 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:53:49pm

re: #565 Sergey Romanov

That is also true. Meanwhile our friend tries to discount Loughner's anti-govt, anti-immigrant, "gold standard" stances.

Add anti-woman to that list:

Loughner Didn't Think Women Should Hold Positions Of Authority Or Power

It was not just his appearance — the pale shaved head and eyebrows — that unnerved them. It was also the aggressive, often sexist things that he said, including asserting that women should not be allowed to hold positions of power or authority.

One individual with knowledge of the situation said Mr. Loughner once got into a dispute with a female branch employee after she told him that a request of his would violate bank policy. He brusquely challenged the woman, telling her that she should not have any power.

572 brownbagj  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:54:02pm

re: #570 Gus 802

Its ok Gus. we love ya! Everyone gets a splodey head from time to time.

573 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:54:15pm

re: #570 Gus 802

Gus has splodey head...

Film @ 11.

Sorry KT.

heh...after all the brawls I've been through, with every assorted fat headed, unfair, rude and abrasive asshole that visits here...the only mistake I ever made, the only apology I ever made was to KT, the only person that deserved one

574 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:55:09pm

re: #549 CapeCoddah


im here to help you people. i dont hate conservatives, i want to fix you.

just relax and let me.

575 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:55:49pm

re: #574 SpaceJesus

im here to help you people. i dont hate conservatives, i want to fix you.

just relax and let me.

How about... Fuck off.

576 brownbagj  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:56:31pm

Just one last thing , it is possible to want Mubarak out ASAP AND still be concerned about MB.

I don't support him or them.

577 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:56:35pm

re: #566 Varek Raith

I had fun on that thread.

I seem to have been in quite a mood that evening. Good God.

578 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:56:43pm

re: #573 albusteve

heh...after all the brawls I've been through, with every assorted fat headed, unfair, rude and abrasive asshole that visits here...the only mistake I ever made, the only apology I ever made was to KT, the only person that deserved one

We can all hug KT! I hear he's a great cook. ;)

Hmm. Speaking of splodey heads...

579 brownbagj  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:57:07pm

re: #574 SpaceJesus

Hey, I am a fiscal conservative.

How much would it cost to fix me? I am a social liberal so I expect a cut rate.

/

580 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:57:12pm

re: #575 CapeCoddah


shhh, relax. breathe deep and just let me into your heart

581 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:57:36pm

re: #579 brownbagj


yeah 50 percent off but only on thursdays

582 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:57:41pm

re: #550 Floral Giraffe

An attention whore, maybe?

maybe, it's sorta common behavior, sometimes these guys have lived in institutions all their lives, so they have these aggressive coping skills they use to have some semblance of power over their surroundings

but then they end up in a much nicer place like a mild little group home but the coping mechanisms are still there :P

583 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:57:49pm

re: #579 brownbagj

Hey, I am a fiscal conservative.

How much would it cost to fix me? I am a social liberal so I expect a cut rate.

/

Jeeze your type always want a handout don't they? ;-)

584 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:58:09pm

re: #576 brownbagj

Just one last thing , it is possible to want Mubarak out ASAP AND still be concerned about MB.

I don't support him or them.

yesh! That's where I am.

Good that Egypt has had enough

Bad that the guys poised to take over look scary as hell

585 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 3:59:04pm

re: #577 SanFranciscoZionist

I seem to have been in quite a mood that evening. Good God.

You were definitely operating in a fashion that I am more used to seeing on threads far far away from LGF :D

586 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:00:37pm

re: #583 McSpiff

Jeeze your type always want a handout don't they? ;-)

Speaking of fiscal conservatives wanting hand outs, turns out Ayn Rand was a fan of government assistance.

587 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:01:35pm

re: #586 recusancy

Speaking of fiscal conservatives wanting hand outs, turns out Ayn Rand was a fan of government assistance.

*cue 2112*

588 brownbagj  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:03:20pm

re: #584 WindUpBird

Yep. I do worry for my friends over there as well as in neighboring countries.

I hope for the best, but expect the worst.

Another point, those they speak of rebellion here at home when disagreeing with each other - do they realize the suffering and bloodshed that would entail? I think they think they do, but when the shooting starts, I bet their shorts will be just as spoiled as everyone else's. They should be dropped in the middle of a war zone and then asked, "Is this really what you want to do instead of debating proper fiscal policies?"

Assholes. All of them.

589 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:03:38pm

Next-to-last comment on the kos thread:

"Is it possible that some (0+ / 0-)
user can be allowed to post this kind of tripe, run away, and yet remain a member of this community? Is it?

I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

by doc2 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 02:01:06 PM PST"

The last comment is a large "do Not Feed the Troll" sign.

590 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:03:58pm

re: #570 Gus 802

Gus has splodey head...

Film @ 11.

Sorry KT.

Apology accepted. I'm glad I caught that post because I was getting ready to pounce. I would encourage people to check out the Muslim Brotherhood Website.. Use the search feature, search for Israel, Hamas, Afghanistan, etc and see what they're about. They do support Hamas and want to send them arms. They do support war crimes trials for Israeli leadership, they do support canceling the peace treating with Israel. They also do support the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate. Check this one out....
Muslim Brotherhood expands westward

When Egyptian school teacher Hassan al-Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928 to teach his fellow Egyptians how to re-discover their Muslim identity and fight British control, he probably never thought that 80 years later, his organisation would have the global reach it has today.
....
The aims of the Muslim Brotherhood are well-known: they want to instate an Islamic system of government.
...
Unlike the Egyptian counterpart, the Muslim Brotherhood in the West has no headquarters, and no documented membership.

"In the last 30 years, there have been dozens of groups found in the United States that have been derivative of the Muslim Brotherhood," says Steve Emerson, an American journalist who has spent years monitoring political Islam in the US.

"The Muslim Brotherhood does not exist in a corporate way, it was always formed under false cover or under different organisations," he adds.

However, it is difficult to find anyone prepared to acknowledge links to the Muslim Brotherhood in the US today.
Suspicion and alarm

Since 9/11, the group's ideology and its possible links to militant jihad have come under greater scrutiny.

Mr Helbawy supports jihad in "occupied" countries like Afghanistan where the US and UK have troops

Perhaps more than anything else, its open support for the militant Palestinian group, Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organisation by Washington, explains why it is viewed with suspicion and alarm, and its members refused entry to the US.

One such man is Kamal Helbawy, a senior member of the Muslim Brotherhood, now based in London, who is quite candid about his support for jihad in what he regards as "occupied countries", including Afghanistan - where both the US and UK have troops.


These are not right wing smears of talking points, This is on their own website.

591 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:04:01pm

re: #587 WindUpBird

*cue 2112*

No fair! I used to listen to Rush but never gave Ayn Rand any thought. I imagine most fans don't.

592 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:04:09pm

Image: can_t_we_all_just_get_along.jpg

593 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:05:08pm

re: #580 SpaceJesus

shhh, relax. breathe deep and just let me into your heart

I dont have one.

594 Sionainn  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:05:44pm

I don't know if anyone has posted this already: "Learn from Egyptian Protests," Tea Party Nation says

595 brownbagj  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:05:47pm

re: #593 CapeCoddah

That was pretty good.

596 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:05:53pm

Hmmm...maybe I should make a page about that.

597 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:06:20pm

re: #595 brownbagj

That was pretty good.

Why, thank you!

598 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:06:36pm

re: #590 Killgore Trout

Apology accepted. I'm glad I caught that post because I was getting ready to pounce. I would encourage people to check out the Muslim Brotherhood Website.. Use the search feature, search for Israel, Hamas, Afghanistan, etc and see what they're about. They do support Hamas and want to send them arms. They do support war crimes trials for Israeli leadership, they do support canceling the peace treating with Israel. They also do support the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate. Check this one out...
Muslim Brotherhood expands westward

These are not right wing smears of talking points, This is on their own website.

Cool beans. Yeah, we're fucked if the MB takes over Egypt. More importantly Egypt will be fucked for a long time as will the region and Israel.

599 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:06:46pm

re: #574 SpaceJesus

im here to help you people. i dont hate conservatives, i want to fix you.

just relax and let me.

Get that Space probe AWAY from me.

600 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:06:56pm

Outta cigs... back in ten! Dont have any fun without me!

601 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:07:07pm

re: #592 Varek Raith

aww.

602 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:07:09pm

re: #596 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...maybe I should make a page about that.

yes you should...the principle deniers seem to have split

603 recusancy  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:07:57pm

re: #587 WindUpBird

*cue 2112*

I don't follow

604 brownbagj  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:07:59pm

Later lizards...ice cream with the kids.

We have it so good here. Bless those in Egypt and other places around this planet struggling for human dignity.

605 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:08:43pm

re: #603 recusancy

I don't follow

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

606 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:08:55pm

BBL.
Most awesome Flower list in the world just arrived!

607 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:09:22pm

re: #594 Sionainn

I don't know if anyone has posted this already: "Learn from Egyptian Protests," Tea Party Nation says

That article gets so crazy so fast I'm embarrassed for anyone who could take it seriously

608 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:09:36pm

Egyptian revolt thrusts historic peace treaty into a state of uncertainty

A protester in Cairo holds a sketch depicting Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak with a Star of David on his forehead. The caption reads: “Thirty years of devastation and treason.”

It refers, not only to Mr. Mubarak’s more than 30-year tyrannical rule, but also to the historic peace agreement his predecessor signed in 1979 and he continued with Israel.

If the sketch is anything to go by in gauging Egypt’s future relationship with its northern neighbour in the likely event of Mr. Mubarak’s downfall, Israel has reason to fear the treaty is in jeopardy.

609 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:10:08pm

re: #599 Floral Giraffe

no no no, not a probe. just a hookah hose.

610 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:10:09pm

re: #587 WindUpBird

*cue 2112*

Youtube Video

I have it on abundant if not necessarily "good" authority that I am the only living person who doesn't hate that album. And I'm not even all that much of a Rush fan.

611 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:10:59pm

re: #603 recusancy

I don't follow

2112 = Ayn Rand's Anthem set to off kilter spacy 70's guitar rock fronted by an unusually high tenor

612 albusteve  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:12:05pm

re: #608 researchok

Egyptian revolt thrusts historic peace treaty into a state of uncertainty

the elephant in the room...nationalism

613 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:12:09pm

re: #610 negativ

[Video]

I have it on abundant if not necessarily "good" authority that I am the only living person who doesn't hate that album. And I'm not even all that much of a Rush fan.

Fuck dude, I lived inside that album, I saw that album performed live by Rush on the Test For Echo tour

Not only am I a fan, I'm a fan of spaced-out-prog-rock records with far bizarre irritating vocals than Geddy could ever concieve of :D

614 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:12:45pm

re: #600 CapeCoddah

Outta cigs... back in ten! Dont have any fun without me!

Don't make it too long - people want to hear more of your stories about the gheys and what they are doing to the soil!

615 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:15:25pm

conservatives need to smoke more marijuana

616 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:15:45pm

Hello all,

Just here for a short while--still feeling lousy.

How has the day been for you-all?

617 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:16:08pm

re: #611 WindUpBird

2112 = Ayn Rand's Anthem set to off kilter spacy 70's guitar rock fronted by an unusually high tenor

I hated that book.

618 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:16:09pm

re: #616 ggt

Hello all,

Just here for a short while--still feeling lousy.

How has the day been for you-all?

zany

619 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:16:17pm

re: #615 SpaceJesus

conservatives need to smoke more marijuana

Libertarians?

/

620 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:16:33pm

re: #617 SanFranciscoZionist

I hated that book.

I confess, I never read it :D Not a lit nerd, just a rock nerd!

621 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:16:44pm

Israeli joke:

Subject: The telephone

Digging to a depth of 1,000 meters last year, French scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 1,000 years. The French came to the conclusion that their ancestors had a telephone network centuries ago.

Not to be outdone by the French, English scientists dug to a depth of 2,000 meters. Shortly thereafter headlines in the UK newspapers read:
"English archaeologists have found traces of a 2,000-year-old fiber-optic cable and have concluded that their ancestors had an advanced high-tech digital communications network a thousand years earlier than the French."

One week later, Israeli newspapers reported the following:
"After digging as deep as 5,000 meters in a Jerusalem marketplace, they found absolutely nothing. They thus concluded that 5,000 years ago Jews were using wireless."

622 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:17:34pm

Teenage fan club - Interstellar Overdrive :

Youtube Video
623 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:18:17pm

That didn't take long:

Instapundit and Ed Driscoll are both wondering if Obama lost Egypt (link on Instapundit/PJ media site). Instapundit cautions that we should stay tuned, but you know which way he'd lean when Mubarak goes buh-bye.

To the right wing, they'll be hammering this home - the Carter redux writ large but we're not there yet.

624 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:18:40pm

re: #615 SpaceJesus

Heh. I had to quit for a while now.

625 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:19:36pm

We need a new creationism thread to straighten us all out.

626 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:22:53pm

Half-Man Half Biscuit - National Shite Day:

Youtube Video
627 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:23:51pm

Anyone connected to LaRouche as Dreyfuss has been is shady at best. But it doesn't seem he has been caught in outright fabrications in that book:

Critical reception

Publisher's Weekly gave the book a "Starred Review", stating that it "reaches farther and deeper into the subject than most".

Vanessa Bush for the American Library Association described it as "well-researched and insightful."

L. Carl Brown in Foreign Affairs, criticized the book's emphasis, arguing that the US has also opposed Islamic fundamentalism on many occasions, and that the author would have done better to focus on America's "excessively intrusive, regime-changing approach to the Middle East" instead.

628 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:25:55pm

Nighty folks :)

629 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:27:45pm

Here's a critical review of the passage in question:

[Link: www.politicalreviewnet.com...]

As for Dreyfuss's main indictments of U.S. policy, the CIA did have contacts with the Muslim Brotherhood up through the 1970s as this far-flung group expanded its influence. But Dreyfuss tends to exaggerate the significance of these CIA contacts. In fact, American intelligence officers and diplomats in the region during that era gave low priority to Islamist politics in the countries where they served or to growing international links among Islamists. In fact, the United States had only a superficial knowledge of these phenomena until the Iranian revolution erupted in 1979.

630 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:27:51pm

re: #567 NJDhockeyfan

From the Library of Alexandria:

To our friends around the world: The Events in Egypt

VERY COOL!

I have a fondness for the Library in Alexandria.

631 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:28:45pm

re: #623 lawhawk

That didn't take long:

Instapundit and Ed Driscoll are both wondering if Obama lost Egypt (link on Instapundit/PJ media site). Instapundit cautions that we should stay tuned, but you know which way he'd lean when Mubarak goes buh-bye.

To the right wing, they'll be hammering this home - the Carter redux writ large but we're not there yet.

What could have Obama done to prevent "losing" Egypt? Wave his magic wand or make a speech in support of Mubarak and then all of the protesters in Egypt would have let out sigh and gone home? This would have happened regardless of who is sitting in the White House. Mubarak remains in power.

632 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:30:25pm

re: #609 SpaceJesus

no no no, not a probe. just a hookah hose.

Well, you can hookah it right up to your own self!

633 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:30:44pm

I know who could fix Egypt.
Col. Jack O'Neill.
/

634 researchok  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:35:12pm

Could Syria be the next domino to fall?

...The news from Cairo has brought with it a flutter of excitement to this country, founded on principles so similar to Egypt that the two nations were once joined as one.

Like Egypt, Syria has been ruled for decades by a single party, with a security service that maintains an iron grip on its citizens. Both countries have been struggling to reform economies, stifled for generations by central control, in an effort to curb unemployment among a ballooning youth demographic.

Could the domino effect that spread from the streets of Tunis to Cairo soon hit Damascus?

“Perhaps the Saudis will have to build a whole village for Arab presidents once they run out of villas," joked a taxi driver, wondering if Mubarak would go the same way as Tunisia’s President Zene el Abadeen Ben Ali, who flew into exile in Saudi Arabia after street protests brought down his regime earlier this month.

In a smoky tea shop in central Damascus the usual babble of conversation was subdued as customers sat quietly but intently watching the TV broadcasting images of flames pouring from Egypt’s ruling party’s head office, a Soviet-era building much like many of those that house the state institutions in their own capital.

The young waiter, though, was skeptical that real change would come to Egypt. “Mubarak won't go. Why did the Egyptian people wait until now? It's only because of Tunisia. I'd like him to go, but he won't.”

Others, though, said the genie was already out of the bottle.

“The most important message is that people can make the change. Before it was always army officers that lead a coup," said Mazen Darwich, director of the Syrian Centre for Media, which campaigns for press freedoms in Syria, but was shuttered by authorities soon after opening.

“It may not be tomorrow or a few months but I'm sure it is like dominoes. Before there was always an ideology -- pan Arabism, or being an enemy of Israel. But now people are simply looking for their personal freedom, for food, education, a good life. The days of ideology are over...”

635 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:42:31pm

Well, I reviewed the last couple of hundred or so comments. You-all have had a zany afternoon!

636 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:44:20pm

Night, all.

637 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:45:01pm

Night, Sergey.

I dreamed last night that I met Alouette and Zedushka, and they were both cats.

638 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:45:25pm

re: #622 Jimmah

re: #626 Jimmah

Thanks for the tunes!

639 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:46:11pm

re: #637 SanFranciscoZionist

Night, Sergey.

I dreamed last night that I met Alouette and Zedushka, and they were both cats.

Lol...

640 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:47:18pm

re: #635 ggt

Nah, just your basic LGF Sunday!

641 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:47:20pm

I'm going to sleep for a while.

Have a great evening all, I'll catch on the overnight!

642 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:54:59pm

Uh oh. The wingnuts have their marching orders. This is being Tweeted at #tcot and places...

Obama will go down in history as the president who lost Egypt
The street revolts in Tunisia and Egypt show that the United States can do very little to save its friends from the wrath of their citizens.
By Aluf Benn

643 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:57:29pm

re: #642 Gus 802

Uh oh. The wingnuts have their marching orders. This is being Tweeted at #tcot and places...

Obama will go down in history as the president who lost Egypt
The street revolts in Tunisia and Egypt show that the United States can do very little to save its friends from the wrath of their citizens.
By Aluf Benn

Well, maybe if Bush hadn't gone around the whole Middle East yellin' about democracy so loud...

//Oh, for goodness sakes.

644 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:58:26pm

re: #642 Gus 802

So, when the mayhem spreads and leads to the overthrow of the Saudi or Syrian regimes, what then? All the regimes in the region have to be wondering if they're next - and there are signs in each that the protesters are preparing. Iran's mullahs survived one round, but that doesn't mean that the opposition wouldn't try agan.

645 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:01:33pm

re: #643 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, maybe if Bush hadn't gone around the whole Middle East yellin' about democracy so loud...

//Oh, for goodness sakes.

Blame Obama at all costs. Even if it doesn't make much sense. So while they're trying to compare Obama and the "fall" of Egypt to Jimmy Carter and Iran I find this at the Huffington Post:

"I think the administration, our administration, so far has handled this tense situation pretty well," the Ohio Republican [John Boehner] told Fox News Sunday. "Clearly reforms need to occur in Egypt and frankly any place around the world where people are calling out for freedom or democracy, I think we have a responsibility to respond. And I think listening to the Egyptian people, working with the government to bring more democratic reforms is all in the right direction."

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) offered much the same during an appearance on NBC's Meet the Press.

"Well, I don't have any criticism with President Obama or Secretary Clinton at this point," he said. "They know full well that we can't give the Egyptians advice about who their leadership is. That's beyond the reach of the United States. And I think we ought to speak as one voice during this crisis."

646 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:01:49pm

c'mon the AFC.

(we suck)

647 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:01:58pm

A customer just called me to tell me that she can't go on with the project we were talking about. I always ask customers not to call me back unless they decide to do the project; I tell them; "I already have your 'no'. You only have to call me to change to a yes.

So, when she apologetically broke the "bad news" (I really didn't give a shit... she was wanting to completely redo her kitchen for under 10K she was entirely unrealistic with her expectations anyway), I told her;

"Oh, don't worry about it. As a matter of fact, I had already forgotten that you exist." I had, she had to remind me who she was.

She was audibly upset (we were on the phone). Don't know why.

Why should it matter?

I'm a baaad boy!

648 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:05:20pm

re: #646 wozzablog

interception number 3.

i'll be turning this off in a minute.

649 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:08:19pm

"I think the administration, our administration, so far has handled this tense situation pretty well..." Rep. John Boehner (R-OH)

650 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:09:00pm

re: #649 Gus 802

"I think the administration, our administration, so far has handled this tense situation pretty well..." Rep. John Boehner (R-OH)

First snow flake in hell has just fallen.

651 Gus  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:09:34pm

re: #650 wozzablog

First snow flake in hell has just fallen.

Yeah. Knock on wood. We'll see what he says tomorrow. ;)

652 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:12:34pm

re: #471 CapeCoddah

No. CM pointed out the problem. Kos is allowing it to stand. That is disgusting, but, then Kos has never been known for his love of Jews. I find defending the fact that the post is still there disturbing.
There was absolutely no truth to the right wing rehtoric talk involved in the Arizona shooting and it is well proven, but lots of folks here jumped on that bandwagon, simply because they detest the right.
The fact that a governor was targeted by a left wing nut who DID have political motive and actually slit the throat of a school dean he mistook for the governor in an attack a few months ago never made more than the local news. Because of the left wing bias in the news.
The hypocrisy is jaw dropping.

Are you fucking nuts? What planet do you live on?

653 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:13:00pm

re: #647 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A customer just called me to tell me that she can't go on with the project we were talking about. I always ask customers not to call me back unless they decide to do the project; I tell them; "I already have your 'no'. You only have to call me to change to a yes.

So, when she apologetically broke the "bad news" (I really didn't give a shit... she was wanting to completely redo her kitchen for under 10K she was entirely unrealistic with her expectations anyway), I told her;

"Oh, don't worry about it. As a matter of fact, I had already forgotten that you exist." I had, she had to remind me who she was.

She was audibly upset (we were on the phone). Don't know why.

Why should it matter?

I'm a baaad boy!

People only value your time as much as you do..

654 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:13:39pm

re: #652 Fozzie Bear

Are you fucking nuts? What planet do you live on?

were you around for the 2200 comment thread? That was a classic CapeCoddah joint

655 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:15:51pm

Found a great far right Twitter crazy: [Link: twitter.com...]

656 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:15:59pm

re: #645 Gus 802

Good on Boehner for understanding how delicate this situation is. McConnell too. They know what the stakes are here, and apparently they also understand that undercutting POTUS on this one is bad for everybody, republicans, democrats, and Egyptions. Everybody.

This just needs to play out, and it isn't our fight, even thought the outcome will affect us greatly. It would be nice if the US just sat this one out and let a middle eastern country sort their own shit out without us pulling strings for once.

657 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:34:37pm

re: #652 Fozzie Bear

Are you fucking nuts? What planet do you live on?

Planet "false equivalence". Or "Faux Outrage" or some sister moon.

658 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:34:45pm

re: #656 Fozzie Bear

We might be letting them sort things out, but expect the rumor mill to still claim that the US was pulling the strings all along - whether it's reports that the US was backing the opposition for years (the Telegraph article headline), or that the US was bolstering Mubarak by hook and crook.

659 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:35:13pm

Seriously - how bad is the AFC

*sob*

660 compound idaho  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:35:27pm

re: #647 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you really say I already have your answer? It is true that customers will not contract with you just because they think you are a nice guy, but they sure as hell won't buy if they think you are a jerk. You never know, she might have called next year with a better budget or said something nice about you to a neighbor. No point in burning bridges if you don't have to.

661 prairiefire  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:07:21pm

re: #637 SanFranciscoZionist

Night, Sergey.

I dreamed last night that I met Alouette and Zedushka, and they were both cats.

The first time I had a dream with my son in it, he was 6 months old and a little black and white puppy.

662 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:16:40pm

re: #637 SanFranciscoZionist

Night, Sergey.

I dreamed last night that I met Alouette and Zedushka, and they were both cats.

But you are also a cat!

663 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 8:49:36am

re: #493 Killgore Trout

Those are their own stated goals. They openly support Hamas and terrorism against Israelis. They openly oppose Egypt's peace treaty with Israel and their own stated goal is to establish a theocratic Muslim caliphate. These are not secrets and they aren't smears.

I never said as much. Straw man.

Your complete rejection of basic and easily verifiable facts tells me you aren't interested in a serious debate so I'll just drop it.

If you try to make an argument on the stipulation that knowledge of MB's rhetoric and propaganda, esp. the one brewing under MB regime, is in any way enough to meaningfully indicate on how they are going to be acting in the reform process and the eventual democracy, then I think it's more you than I who is not interested in serious debates.

664 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 8:50:54am

re: #511 albusteve

I didn't predict certainty in that post...I didn't in any post

So you did not actually want to say, even though you did say it, that the MB was already calling shots via the media?

665 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 8:52:38am

re: #462 Killgore Trout

Fill in the gaps...
but then it would have been a much longer article.

My point was that the article seemed obviously glossing over the latest decades of history of the MB and focussed almost entirely on the first few decades.


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