'The Muslim Brotherhood is Much Stronger Than Mohamed ElBaradei'

‘The Muslim Brotherhood is Much Stronger Than Mohamed ElBaradei’

Middle EastJanuary 2011 • Views: 34,309

The BBC reports that the alliance between Mohamed ElBaradei and the Muslim Brotherhood may already be falling apart.

However, there have been some signs of disagreement within the opposition, with the largest group, the Muslim Brotherhood, appearing to go back on its endorsement of leading figure Mohamed ElBaradei as a negotiator with Mr Mubarak.

A spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Morsy, told the BBC: “The Muslim Brotherhood is much stronger than Mohamed ElBaradei.”

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106 comments

Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:06:12am

A spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Morsy, told the BBC: "The Muslim Brotherhood is much stronger than Mohamed ElBaradei."

I don't see that as weakening the allience. It's just a statement of fact and I'm pretty sure ElBaridei knows that he's a servant of the MB.

albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:07:36am

re: #1 Killgore Trout

I don't see that as weakening the allience. It's just a statement of fact and I'm pretty sure ElBaridei knows that he's a servant of the MB.

exactly why he would make a bad leader...just a front man for MB, a tool....bad news

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:08:39am

Yeah, I don't get ElBaradei's involvement. Frankly, I don't really "get" Elbaradei.

recusancy Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:11:05am

re: #1 Killgore Trout

I don't see that as weakening the allience. It's just a statement of fact and I'm pretty sure ElBaridei knows that he's a servant of the MB.

Not much different then Republicans and TP'rs. They use each other to get power even though they may not buy completely into each others philosophy.

lawhawk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:11:40am

A "marriage" of convenience followed by a quickie divorce as both sides realized that they weren't exactly getting anything close to what they want or need.

ElBaradei needed the MB to increase support among Egyptians seeing how he is mostly known to the outside world but lacks domestic support. The Brotherhood needed him because he'd be an acceptable face of a new regime on the interim basis. However, the faults and failings of both led to the falling out.

albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:12:55am

re: #3 ggt

Yeah, I don't get ElBaradei's involvement. Frankly, I don't really "get" Elbaradei.

he's an opportunists...a usable commodity
I have a feeling he's for sale

BishopX Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:13:10am

They NYtimes has a pretty good article about the leadership of the protest.

From their point of view ElBaradei knows he's a symbol and is okay with it. He got appointed because he's proven he can deal with the west...particularly the US.

albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:13:54am

re: #4 recusancy

Not much different then Republicans and TP'rs. They use each other to get power even though they may not buy completely into each others philosophy.

it's like you're addicted to the TP people...
who gives a fuck about them?
LOL

recusancy Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:18:52am

re: #8 albusteve

I'm addicted.

avanti Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:19:31am

Breaking news : Tom Cruise fly's for Chinese air force/
Click on the WSJ video at the link for proof.

Top Gun.

Four More Tears Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:20:13am

Oh you're so funny, China:

China blocks "Egypt" searches on micro-blogs

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:22:23am

Remember how long it took them to turn Saddam from a "force of stability in the Gulf region" (pre-Gulf War I) into a vicioius tyrant who needed to be dontained/deposed?

The MB are about to go from a "conservative fundamentalist Islamic alliance" to another looming threat to Israel, America and the rest of the civilized (Western) world.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:22:38am

re: #11 JasonA

Oh you're so funny, China:

China blocks "Egypt" searches on micro-blogs

Ghhhaah.

Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:23:18am

re: #9 recusancy

I'm addicted.

Good... the first step is admitting it :)

Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:23:29am

The MB got caught unaware by all these protests, because they have nothing to do with them. ElBaradei might oppose Mubarak, but he's not trusted by mainstream Egyptians because he's seen as an outsider.

I'm not surprised their marriage of convenience is falling apart.

Four More Tears Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:24:18am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

Ghhhaah.

Their paranoia is adorable.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:25:05am

El Baradei has been working for this for awhile.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:25:12am

re: #11 JasonA

Oh you're so funny, China:

China blocks "Egypt" searches on micro-blogs

So much for any Chinese kid that has to do a report on the pyramids.

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:26:12am

El Baradei thought that he could step in to placate the West with a familiar name, a moderate image, thus ensuring that the foreign aid trough would remain filled.

Problem with the MB getting anywhere near the feedlot is that it would dry up foreign aid in a big hurry.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:27:56am

re: #18 EmmmieG

So much for any Chinese kid that has to do a report on the pyramids.

Yeah, well, American nanny-ware won't let kids do reports on breast cancer because the sites have the word 'breast' on them.

It's all about what you're afraid of. The Chinese govt. is terrified of freedom. They imagine it lurking under their beds at night, licking its long, white fangs.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:28:38am

re: #19 ralphieboy

El Baradei thought that he could step in to placate the West with a familiar name, a moderate image, thus ensuring that the foreign aid trough would remain filled.

Problem with the MB getting anywhere near the feedlot is that it would dry up foreign aid in a big hurry.

So the idea is that he'll be a package deal with them, a palatable face for Western consumption?

What does he get out of this? I can't read him.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:30:31am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, well, American nanny-ware won't let kids do reports on breast cancer because the sites have the word 'breast' on them.

It's all about what you're afraid of. The Chinese govt. is terrified of freedom. They imagine it lurking under their beds at night, licking its long, white fangs.

I'm trying to imagine a 13 year old boy doing a report on breast cancer, and failing. For that matter, I doubt my theoretical boy could do a report on colon cancer, rectal cancer, or testicular cancer, either.

Maybe skin cancer.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:31:01am

El Baradei is president of the National Association for Change.

tardis Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:32:10am

re: #12 ralphieboy

Remember how long it took them to turn Saddam from a "force of stability in the Gulf region" (pre-Gulf War I) into a vicioius tyrant who needed to be dontained/deposed?

The MB are about to go from a "conservative fundamentalist Islamic alliance" to another looming threat to Israel, America and the rest of the civilized (Western) world.

I think they made that transformation many years ago.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:32:16am

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

So the idea is that he'll be a package deal with them, a palatable face for Western consumption?

What does he get out of this? I can't read him.

He is a lawyer and a diplomat. According to his Wiki, a smart one too!

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:32:22am

re: #22 EmmmieG

I'm trying to imagine a 13 year old boy doing a report on breast cancer, and failing. For that matter, I doubt my theoretical boy could do a report on colon cancer, rectal cancer, or testicular cancer, either.

Maybe skin cancer.

I taught high school the last couple of years. And last year I coordinated the breast cancer awareness month activities.

The blocks were a bit of a pain.

(BTW, in case you weren't aware, October is also European-American heritage month, which was incredibly funny at my school.)

McSpiff Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:33:07am

re: #22 EmmmieG

I'm trying to imagine a 13 year old boy doing a report on breast cancer, and failing. For that matter, I doubt my theoretical boy could do a report on colon cancer, rectal cancer, or testicular cancer, either.

Maybe skin cancer.

Try not being able to see a webpage with the word "sex" or "breast" or even "gay" in it in grade 12. Good luck with half of science or art research.

wrenchwench Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:33:08am

re: #23 ggt

El Baradei is president of the National Association for Change.

What, no Hope™ ?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:35:59am

re: #25 ggt

He is a lawyer and a diplomat. According to his Wiki, a smart one too!

According to my wiki, if I had one, I am brilliant and skinny.

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:37:03am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

Same problem as Mubarak: when you've been the only party in power for decades, there's nobody else to blame...

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:37:03am

National Association for Change from the Carnegie Endowment website.

The only website I found for the National Association for Change was in Arabic (?).

They also have a facebook page.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:37:33am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, well, American nanny-ware won't let kids do reports on breast cancer because the sites have the word 'breast' on them.

Yeah, but they can do a report on "hooter" cancer.

wrenchwench Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:37:59am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

(BTW, in case you weren't aware, October is also European-American heritage month, which was incredibly funny at my school.)

Is that what they call "Oktoberfest" elsewhere?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:39:00am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

I taught high school the last couple of years. And last year I coordinated the breast cancer awareness month activities.

The blocks were a bit of a pain.

(BTW, in case you weren't aware, October is also European-American heritage month, which was incredibly funny at my school.)

So...do you do English E-A heritage, or Greek E-A heritage, or Norwegian E-A heritage, or Irish E-A heritage...

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:39:20am

Egyptian Association for Change --linked from the facebook.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:41:57am

re: #33 wrenchwench

Is that what they call "Oktoberfest" elsewhere?

One of the juniors, a young African-American woman, took me aside, and asked quietly if she could ask me something about European-American Heritage Month. I said sure.

She said, clearly trying to be delicate, "Is this so that white people can have a month?"

I said, "Yes, that's about it."

She said, "Oh. OK."

We had fish and chips one day in the cafeteria, and there were European heritage fun facts on the PA announcements in the morning. And we had an extended lunch and small festival involving a bake-sale by the French club, and folksinging.

mikefromArlington Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:43:49am

My problem is that when Bolton is for something I instinctively go against it.

It's kinda funny watching all these super patriot defenders of freedom getting in a tizzy about Obama not groveling at the feet of a dictator.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:43:56am

re: #34 EmmmieG

So...do you do English E-A heritage, or Greek E-A heritage, or Norwegian E-A heritage, or Irish E-A heritage...

Everything!!!!

I told the student activities coordinator I thought he'd made this up. He Googled it for me, and proudly pointed to the first hit. I said, "Tom, that's Stormfront."

He Googled some more, and found a site we could actually look at.

I said, "OK, so for this festival, what? I should show up in a Ukranian folk-dance costume?"

He said, "Do you have one? Great!!"

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:44:52am

re: #37 mikefromArlington

My problem is that when Bolton is for something I instinctively go against it.

It's kinda funny watching all these super patriot defenders of freedom getting in a tizzy about Obama not groveling at the feet of a dictator.

Yes, bowing to popular pressure is different than bowing to a head of state apparently in their eyes.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:45:48am

re: #38 SanFranciscoZionist

Everything!!!

I told the student activities coordinator I thought he'd made this up. He Googled it for me, and proudly pointed to the first hit. I said, "Tom, that's Stormfront."

He Googled some more, and found a site we could actually look at.

I said, "OK, so for this festival, what? I should show up in a Ukranian folk-dance costume?"

He said, "Do you have one? Great!!"

I have one too! Let me just have a year to diet back down to the size I was at 16.

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:48:38am

re: #40 EmmmieG

I have one too! Let me just have a year to diet back down to the size I was at 16.

Not sure the link will work correctly but the Univ. of Pittsburgh has "nationality rooms" in one of it's buildings. Basically celebrating the ethnic heritage of the city/region by having a group of classrooms decorated in the style of that ethnic group.

[Link: www.pitt.edu...]

justaminute Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:49:41am

Most of the protesters are out there for freedom, but jobs and food seems to me to be at the fore. Their economy requires investors and an unstable government puts a serious hamper on that. The MB at the top of the government would probably put a halt to that. It would totally knock out tourism. Iran has hundreds of sites that tourists would flock too if an Islamic dictatorship was not in there. Tourists and hijab do not go together. Like I said before I think they will only be an aspect that the gov. has to deal with. Like the tea party.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:52:13am

Leader of the Muslim Brotherhood--

Mohammed Badie.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:53:55am

Profiles of "major players" in Egypt.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:54:56am

re: #41 oaktree

Not sure the link will work correctly but the Univ. of Pittsburgh has "nationality rooms" in one of it's buildings. Basically celebrating the ethnic heritage of the city/region by having a group of classrooms decorated in the style of that ethnic group.

[Link: www.pitt.edu...]

Well, now I feel cheated that I attended my classes in boring classrooms. Those were gorgeous.

I was disappointed that there wasn't a big pit in the middle of the Greek room. "YOU GOT AN FFFFFF" and you get kicked into the pit.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:55:45am

Okay, okay, the Syrian Lebanon room gets cushions, and the Europeans are sitting on hard wooden chairs.

Somebody got conned back there.

Do they turn the heat off in the Swedish room?

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:57:18am

Egypt has a Court of Cassation.

* Court of Cassation
The Court of Cassation, the only one in its category, was established in 1931 and based in Cairo. The Court of Cassation, the exclusive body atop the judicial hierarchy in Egypt, was designated with the purpose of creating a central tool to provide exclusive and uniform interpretation and application of law.
The jurisdiction of Court of Cassation basically includes consideration of challenges brought to it by either adversary or by the public prosecution.
It also includes examinating lawsuits related to judges' actions. In such a case, the court undertakes its role as a court of merit, rather than a court of law.
It also has the power to give rulings on requests of reparations for all violated verdicts. The court issues annual collections on approved judicial principles under the title “Rulings and Principles of The Court of Cassation”.

I don't understand.

wrenchwench Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:57:37am

re: #42 justaminute

Most of the protesters are out there for freedom, but jobs and food seems to me to be at the fore. Their economy requires investors and an unstable government puts a serious hamper on that. The MB at the top of the government would probably put a halt to that. It would totally knock out tourism. Iran has hundreds of sites that tourists would flock too if an Islamic dictatorship was not in there. Tourists and hijab do not go together. Like I said before I think they will only be an aspect that the gov. has to deal with. Like the tea party.

The MB seems to be willing to put on as moderate a face as needed to achieve its objectives. Some questions are, do those protesting now see the real MB or the face? Do they like the real MB and/or the face? If the MB were to gain power, would they provide the stability to inspire investments and tourism? And about a hundred other questions...

Thanks for your insights.

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Jan 31, 2011 11:59:22am

re: #46 EmmmieG

Okay, okay, the Syrian Lebanon room gets cushions, and the Europeans are sitting on hard wooden chairs.

Somebody got conned back there.

Do they turn the heat off in the Swedish room?

No idea. I attended university there for five years and never had a class that met in any of those rooms.

Though I got a look into a lot of them since they'd be open during the day, or if you timed it right you could follow one of the tours around. There's a nice sight-seeing area right in that area of Pittsburgh between the University, Carnegie Museum, and a few other locales all within a few blocks of each other. (Including a hot dog/fries place that goes through multiple tons of potatoes per week.)

reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:00:45pm

re: #3 ggt

Yeah, I don't get ElBaradei's involvement. Frankly, I don't really "get" Elbaradei.

Neither do many of the Egyptian twitterers I'm following.

Alexzander Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:02:54pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

Neither do many of the Egyptian twitterers I'm following.

I'm getting the same impression from twitter. Neither Elbaradei or the MB are particularly welcome. I think the real 'leaders' of these events, if there are any at all, are probably some relatively unknown student organizers who put together the protest guide and organized the original Jan 25 events.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:03:26pm

So, my take is that after his 3-terms as the Chief of the IAEA, he needed something to do. He got involved with or started the National Association for Change to work toward creating a better Egypt, his home.

I don't think he is nefarious per se, just a diplomat and a lawyer.

iossarian Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:03:48pm

re: #47 ggt

It's the supreme court equivalent, more or less, in the judicial systems modeled on the French version, I believe.

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:04:05pm

El B seems to think that he could be a face of moderation, democratic secularism and still be palatable to the West and maintain the flow of foreign aid.

And perhaps get the tourists back.

All those Red Sea resorts and souvenier stands outside the Pyramids must be doing pretty slow business these days.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:04:47pm

re: #53 iossarian

It's the supreme court equivalent, more or less, in the judicial systems modeled on the French version, I believe.

They have a supreme court as well. Yeah, there also a court of cassation in France.

reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:07:20pm

re: #51 Alexzander

I'm getting the same impression from twitter. Neither Elbaradei or the MB are particularly welcome. I think the real 'leaders' of these events, if there are any at all, are probably some relatively unknown student organizers who put together the protest guide and organized the original Jan 25 events.

The PROBLEM for them is this - if Mubarek just up and leaves, there is a power vacuum. Whoever steps into it will need to be some group that has some sort of organization ready to take up the job of leading the country wherever it's going go. And the student organizers are unlikely to have that sort of organization. Now, maybe they have some contacts with some organizations, who knows? But I suspect the original organizers have no plan other than to get Mubarek OUT. We'll see how it plays out.

Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:07:31pm

By the way, if anyone was watching 'ryannon' melt down in the overnight thread, I just got an email telling me he's already posting hate comments at the stalker blog.

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:09:26pm

It is too late Charles, she has mobilized the masses against you, they will take to the streets and you will have to flee the country, taking your ill-gotten millions with you...

Alexzander Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:10:22pm

re: #56 reine.de.tout

I agree that with the impression that student organizers likely only had plans to get Mubarek out - and that does indeed leave tremendous space for a power vancuum.

Here is a video showing some examples of the outburst of volunteerism, in the wake of protests (and the cessation of nationally provided services).
youtube link

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:10:56pm

Somehow, I think El Baradei is being used.

What can he do to top the Nobel Peace Prize? Why, be POTUS of Egypt?

What else can they do to stroke his ego. His fame and past international law expertise and work experience make him a good spokesman for any group wanting change.

I don't think he is an Islamist Whacko.

lawhawk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:11:43pm

re: #57 Charles

Posting hate comments at the stalker sites even though he was busy calling for napalming the protesters to keep Mubarak in power.

Nice and classy. What a surprise.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:12:49pm

Have a great afternoon all!

justaminute Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:13:34pm

re: #48 wrenchwench

The MB seems to be willing to put on as moderate a face as needed to achieve its objectives. Some questions are, do those protesting now see the real MB or the face? Do they like the real MB and/or the face? If the MB were to gain power, would they provide the stability to inspire investments and tourism? And about a hundred other questions...

Thanks for your insights.

These protest were driven by the youth at first. They are Muslim but I don't believe it is a driving influence. It's a component of who they are. We are a nation that has a Christian majority but making alcohol illegal didn't work out for us did it? In Iran the youth said when they made following Islam the law it took away from their willingness to follow Islam. There are people that follow the tenets willingly and people who are forced too. Now both parties are resentful. Dragging someone to church on Sunday does not make a good Christian. This applies to all religions.

reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:14:21pm

re: #46 EmmmieG

Okay, okay, the Syrian Lebanon room gets cushions, and the Europeans are sitting on hard wooden chairs.

Somebody got conned back there.

Do they turn the heat off in the Swedish room?

Brings back painful memories of trying to run P.E. laps in my old wooden shoes!
Sucked to be Dutch...../

McSpiff Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:14:52pm

re: #61 lawhawk

Posting hate comments at the stalker sites even though he was busy calling for napalming the protesters to keep Mubarak in power.

Nice and classy. What a surprise.

It was ha ha just a ha ha joke dontcha know?

lawhawk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:15:40pm

re: #65 McSpiff

Such the joke that he's now spewing bilge on stalker sites. Yeah, funny. Hah.

Nevertires Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:17:31pm

OK...perhaps I don't understand some of what I am hearing/reading elsewhere re: democratic reforms and involvement of the MB in Egypt...

This whole protest strikes me simply as people seeking freedom, period. If the MB comes in and shapes things more like Iran - wouldn't the people just take to the streets again? If so - they would face the same army and police that seem to be not be engaging in mass killings, no?

It also seems to me that in this Twitter/Facebook/Internet age the majority of people will not accept a theocracy in Egypt.

I am not trying to gloss over or ignore the threat of extremism or past history of groups like the MB.

This just resonates with me as ordinary people wanting ordinary freedoms and futures for themselves, their families and their children.

Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:18:29pm

re: #61 lawhawk

It was clearly a joke in terrible taste. It was clear that he wanted to get banned, too. He's been doing a really asinine schtick for a week or so.

Interwebs drama. I just don't get it. Why not just leave? Having left, or being banned, why continue to obsess?

So deranged.

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:19:14pm

re: #67 Nevertires

OK...perhaps I don't understand some of what I am hearing/reading elsewhere re: democratic reforms and involvement of the MB in Egypt...

This whole protest strikes me simply as people seeking freedom, period. If the MB comes in and shapes things more like Iran - wouldn't the people just take to the streets again? If so - they would face the same army and police that seem to be not be engaging in mass killings, no?

It also seems to me that in this Twitter/Facebook/Internet age the majority of people will not accept a theocracy in Egypt.

I am not trying to gloss over or ignore the threat of extremism or past history of groups like the MB.

This just resonates with me as ordinary people wanting ordinary freedoms and futures for themselves, their families and their children.

/meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

but seriously, there are many "forces" at work here.

Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:19:56pm

re: #67 Nevertires

The question is what the 'ordinary' freedoms are. There's a significant percentage of people in the US for whom 'ordinary' freedom wouldn't include a woman's right to choose, or birthright citizenship, or real, equal freedom of religion for all religions.

Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:20:22pm

re: #68 Obdicut

It was clearly a joke in terrible taste. It was clear that he wanted to get banned, too. He's been doing a really asinine schtick for a week or so.

Interwebs drama. I just don't get it. Why not just leave? Having left, or being banned, why continue to obsess?

So deranged.

A post on the internet is nothing to lose your mind over.

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:21:36pm

re: #70 Obdicut

The question is what the 'ordinary' freedoms are. There's a significant percentage of people in the US for whom 'ordinary' freedom wouldn't include a woman's right to choose, or birthright citizenship, or real, equal freedom of religion for all religions.

we don't agree on much, but you do ask a good question...

lawhawk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22:31pm

OT:
Florida judge strikes down major portions of health care reform.

A federal judge in Florida has struck down as unconstitutional key parts of the sweeping health care reform bill championed by President Barack Obama. Officials in Florida and 25 other states are challenging sections of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, including the "individual mandate" requiring most Americans to purchase health insurance in four years or face stiff penalties.

Ericus58 Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22:40pm

For Egypt rescue flight, AI charged up to 55,000 R's
Times of India 02/01/2011
(c) 2010 The Times of India Group

"MUMBAI: It was not just the violence which spooked those evacuated from Cairo. The fare, charged by Air India for the special flight was almost double that of the usual return ticket.

Most passengers were charged Rs 45,000 and in some cases the ticket fare went upto Rs 55,000. Usually, a one way fare on Mumbai-Cairo sector is between Rs 17,000 to Rs 20,000. Many flyers complained they were forced to pay cash.

AI refused to comment on the fares. An AI official said the fares had to be high as the airline had operated the flight from Mumbai to Cairo empty. ''Also, the airline does not have a base in Cairo. All check-in and take-off formalities had to be managed with whatever small staff available,'' said a senior AI official.

Civil aviation minister Vayalar Ravi, who also handles the overseas Indians ministry, received several complaints. The minister is learnt to have instructed AI not to quibble over cash with tourists who may be running low on funds and present them the bill after they return.

"The flight was a boon but we had to pay through our nose. Our earlier flights were cancelled. At the end of the holiday, we didn't have enough handy to pay that much. Fortunately, I had managed to keep some money aside," said a Mumbai-based businessman and his wife, who were on a business-cum-leisure trip.

Shashank Jain, an Ahmedabad-based businessman, claimed to have paid Rs 55,000 for his ticket. Another passenger, Vineet Ahuja said, "In this hour of calamity, we didn't expect a government carrier to charge so much.""

lawhawk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:23:29pm

re: #73 lawhawk

Text of the decision here.

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:23:56pm

re: #73 lawhawk

not really OT, if you think about it.

Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:24:54pm

re: #76 brookly red

not really OT, if you think about it.

How so?

Four More Tears Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:25:03pm

re: #74 Ericus58

Capitalism!

Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:25:46pm

Boner decides to stick with the "smug asshole" approach

John Boehner disses Obama's golf game on Fox News

House Speaker John Boehner (R) of Ohio says he’s willing to play golf with President Obama. Any course, anytime, anywhere, presumably. Now that’s bipartisan outreach.

The offer came with a diss, though. Mr. Boehner implied that his own skill with clubs is superior to that of the nation’s chief executive, and that he’ll have to allow Mr. Obama a handicap.

“I’m sure I’ll have to give him strokes,” said Boehner on Fox News Sunday.

The only response that comes to mind...

Youtube Video

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:26:10pm

re: #77 Obdicut

How so?

well we are discussing populist rights...

Ericus58 Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:26:55pm

re: #78 JasonA

Capitalism!

ah...
"Civil aviation minister Vayalar Ravi, who also handles the overseas Indians ministry, received several complaints. The minister is learnt to have instructed AI not to quibble over cash with tourists who may be running low on funds and present them the bill after they return.
.................
Shashank Jain, an Ahmedabad-based businessman, claimed to have paid Rs 55,000 for his ticket. Another passenger, Vineet Ahuja said, "In this hour of calamity, we didn't expect a government carrier to charge so much.""

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:27:35pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Boner decides to stick with the "smug asshole" approach

John Boehner disses Obama's golf game on Fox News

The only response that comes to mind...

[Video]

I can't imagine any response other than to hope that Obama buries him.

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:27:41pm

re: #73 lawhawk

OT:
Florida judge strikes down major portions of health care reform.

If/when it gets to the Supreme Court and they strike it down will it simply become more powerful than we can imagine and return in the form of a single-payer plan?

Unless everyone properly clears their mind and thinks of nothing...

Four More Tears Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:27:47pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“I’m sure I’ll have to give him strokes,”

I'll remember that line.

Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:28:37pm

re: #82 EmmmieG

I can't imagine any response other than to hope that Obama buries him.

Maybe invite Boner out for a game of hoops instead.

Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:29:32pm

re: #84 JasonA

I'll remember that line.

Obligatory "Thats what SHE said!"

Gus Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:29:55pm

re: #57 Charles

By the way, if anyone was watching 'ryannon' melt down in the overnight thread, I just got an email telling me he's already posting hate comments at the stalker blog.

Ugh, that made me go look at the ~~Diary of Daedalus~~ Glory Hole of the Internet. Place has turned into a psycho laboratory of Little Green Footballs. For a while there I thought they may have been getting over it but instead they've gotten even worse. Ryannon is missing a few cards.

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:30:10pm

re: #83 oaktree

If/when it gets to the Supreme Court and they strike it down will it simply become more powerful than we can imagine and return in the form of a single-payer plan?

Unless everyone properly clears their mind and thinks of nothing...

ooops! I thought of beer & pizza... my bad.

Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:30:19pm

re: #80 brookly red

well we are discussing populist rights...

I'm sorry, what are 'populist rights'? I'm lost.

darthstar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:32:26pm

re: #68 Obdicut

Interwebs drama. I just don't get it. Why not just leave? Having left, or being banned, why continue to obsess?

Chicks* dig it?

* Where these chicks may exist, however, is beyond me.

lawhawk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:32:58pm

Egypt's army is saying that they will refrain from using violence against the people. That's significant.

As anti-government demonstrations persist across Egypt and the country's military firmly puts its boots on the ground to establish order, the army said it won't deploy "violence" against the people.
A military spokesman said on state TV Monday that "freedom of opinion in a peaceful manner is allowed for all" and the "armed forces are aware of the legitimate demands of the honest citizens."

"The presence of the armed forces in the Egyptian streets is for your benefit to protect your safety and peace," said the spokesman for the army, which has been regarded favorably by many protesters who despise the police and see that institution as an ally.

The armed forces "will not use violence against this great people which have always played a significant role in every moment of Egypt's great history. And we reassure the armed forces are a force of stability and security for this great nation. The protection of the people is one of its core values," the spokesman said.

The military may well be the vehicle that is used to transition between Mubarak and whatever government coalesces as his replacement.

Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:33:40pm

re: #75 lawhawk

Pretty dense document. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I'm sure that Tea Partiers and other conservatives will be outraged by this judicial activism in over-ruling a law passed by elected representatives.

Oh. Wait.

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:33:41pm

re: #89 Obdicut

I'm sorry, what are 'populist rights'? I'm lost.

yes lost I understand...

OK we have situation in Egypt dealing with the "will of the people"... we have a situation in Florida dealing with the "will of the people...

same difference, but we have a better court system the Egypt I guess?

Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:34:08pm

re: #90 darthstar

Chicks* dig it?

* Where these chicks may exist, however, is beyond me.

There are no women on the internet, and all the children are Chris Hansen.

Gus Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:34:40pm

OK, back later. Must go out into the deep freeze.

Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:35:08pm

re: #93 brookly red

yes lost I understand...

OK we have situation in Egypt dealing with the "will of the people"... we have a situation in Florida dealing with the "will of the people...

same difference, but we have a better court system the Egypt I guess?

I'm sorry, what is the relationship between the revolution in Egypt and the court case in Florida? How is the health care debate about the will of the people? You mean that most people support the individual provisions of the health care law?

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:35:44pm

re: #91 lawhawk

Egypt's army is saying that they will refrain from using violence against the people. That's significant.

The military may well be the vehicle that is used to transition between Mubarak and whatever government coalesces as his replacement.

let us hope, but let us also remember a similar statement by the Iranians...

John Carroll Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:35:49pm

Yes, they are more powerful, as the opposition in most middle eastern countries was those motivated enough to withstand the abuse totalitarian regimes heaped on those who dared challenge them. Religion is a big motivator...witness the proliferation of massive and very expensive churches built in the middle ages (at a time when one would think they couldn't afford such luxuries).

I fully expect a post-Mubarak Egypt to be overtly Muslim. On the other hand, as people grow accustomed to choice, the easy answers that religious parties offer are less appealing.

Iran would be a more secular country, now, if the totalitarian regime of the shah hadn't turned into the totalitarian regime of the clerics. The goal of the west shouldn't be to stop a religious party from gaining real power in Egypt - that is all but guaranteed. Rather, it is to prevent that regime from becoming just as totalitarian as the last one.

One way NOT to deal with a post-Mubarak Egypt is to try what we did in Cuba and Iran, isolating them economically. That just puts political awareness in the back seat to feeding one's family. Do what we did in South Korea and Taiwan. We traded openly with those countries, even though they were military dictatorships until the 1980s. Help Egyptians escape poverty, and they will prove to be as moderate as the rest of the world.

brookly red Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:37:02pm

re: #96 Obdicut

I'm sorry, what is the relationship between the revolution in Egypt and the court case in Florida? How is the health care debate about the will of the people? You mean that most people support the individual provisions of the health care law?

quite the opposite. but that is for another thread, no?

100

Stanghazi Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:37:38pm

re: #92 Talking Point Detective

Pretty dense document. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I'm sure that Tea Partiers and other conservatives will be outraged by this judicial activism in over-ruling a law passed by elected representatives.

Oh. Wait.

daveweigel daveweigel
Wow, Vinson cites Boston Tea Party in decision. Subtle!

101

Alexzander Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:45:33pm

I posted this earlier in a thread that had just died, but I'm still finding it amusing so here it is again:

Over at redstate, there is a thread discussing how the liberalz and Obama administration (or regime?) are behind-the-scenes players in Egypt, intending to introduce socialist sharia law there. Link

102

Varek Raith Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:46:03pm

re: #101 Alexzander

I posted this earlier in a thread that had just died, but I'm still finding it amusing so here it is again:

Over at redstate, there is a thread discussing how the liberalz and Obama administration (or regime?) are behind-the-scenes players in Egypt, intending to introduce socialist sharia law there. Link

Lol.
Wingnuts.

103

Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:50:18pm

re: #99 brookly red

quite the opposite. but that is for another thread, no?

Now it's become off-topic? Huh.

104

brownbagj Mon, Jan 31, 2011 1:01:14pm

#76 not really OT, if you think about it

# 99 quite the opposite. but that is for another thread, no?

Wow. Within 23 posts. Quicker spin move than Kobe.

105

Fozzie Bear Mon, Jan 31, 2011 1:53:14pm

re: #11 JasonA

Oh you're so funny, China:

China blocks "Egypt" searches on micro-blogs

Things like this scare the crap out of authoritarian regimes. China's leadership is probably watching this with a bit of a nervous flutter.

106

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:26:51pm

re: #57 Charles

By the way, if anyone was watching 'ryannon' melt down in the overnight thread, I just got an email telling me he's already posting hate comments at the stalker blog.

Uh, what a douche.

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