Wacky Wingnut Post of the Day

The Muslim Brotherhood is conspiring with Code Pink and Bill Ayers
Wingnuts • Views: 34,584

At fraudster Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Government” tabloid site, the redoubtable Kristinn Taylor and Andrea Shea King come up with the looniest post yet on the situation in Egypt, a dimwitted conspiracy theory leading back, inevitably, as all wingnut conspiracy theories must, to Barack Obama: Did Muslim Brotherhood Learn ‘Day of Rage’ Egypt Protest Tactics From Obama Allies Bill Ayers and Code Pink?

But then, on the other hand, I just took a look at another of Breitbart’s sites, “Big Peace,” and practically every post on the front page could also be a candidate for the looniest post you’ve ever seen, with contributions from an all-star cast of anti-Islam raving nutbags — many of the same raving nutbags who support and promote European far right fascist groups like the EDL, the Vlaams Belang, and others.

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605 comments
1 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:01:24pm

Didn't Breitbart's mother take away his internet privileges? I liked it when he was being ignored by the rest of the planet.

2 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:01:28pm

I thought "day of rage" was Sharpton... OK I don't get out of NY much.

3 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:02:01pm

Obviously, they were inspired by Obama's Cairo speach.

///

4 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:03:31pm

Walk like an Alinsky…

5 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:03:39pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously, they were inspired by Obama's Cairo speach.

///

well at least someone was...

6 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:10:46pm

Heh...

But then, on the other hand, I just took a look at another of Breitbart’s sites, “Big Peace,” and practically every post on the front page could also be a candidate for the looniest post you’ve ever seen (Charles)

The one I like is "Obama introduced Berlusconi to his latest fling"

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:10:52pm

Redoubtable?

–adjective
1.that is to be feared; formidable.
2.commanding or evoking respect, reverence, or the like.

Charles?

8 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:11:01pm

Sooo whats for dinner?

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:11:54pm

re: #8 brookly red

I'm eating a pile of sweet and sour veggies that I just made. Brown rice.

HOLY SWEET LORD!

it's good.

10 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:12:39pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm eating a pile of sweet and sour veggies that I just made. Brown rice.

HOLY SWEET LORD!

it's good.

fukin A!

11 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:12:59pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm eating a pile of sweet and sour veggies that I just made. Brown rice.

HOLY SWEET LORD!

it's good.

I'm eating some lemon sorbet and it just hit 0 degrees (f) outside.

12 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:13:03pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My stomach has been upset all day, but I'm simultaneously super-hungry.

It sucks.

13 mr.fusion  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:13:33pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm eating a pile of sweet and sour veggies that I just made. Brown rice.

HOLY SWEET LORD!

it's good.

Did Fat Bastard Vegetarian learn how to cook from Obama allies Bill Ayers and Code Pink?

14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:13:44pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wife is eating it too. She's not a vegetarian, but SHE IS WHEN I COOK!

AND SHE LIKES IT DAMMIT!

15 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:13:59pm

I'm making Tandoori Chicken tonight.

16 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:14:09pm

re: #13 mr.fusion

Did Fat Bastard Vegetarian learn how to cook from Obama allies Bill Ayers and Code Pink?

no.

17 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:14:27pm

So much stupid it took two authors.

18 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:14:47pm

What I love about these bizarre conspiracy theories is that totally marginal characters in history suddenly take on gigantically powerful roles.

It's really similar to the Zionist Conspiracy bullshit.

19 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:15:26pm

re: #16 brookly red

no.

How did I miss that?

20 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:15:49pm

re: #14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wife is eating it too. She's not a vegetarian, but SHE IS WHEN I COOK!

AND SHE LIKES IT DAMMIT!

I just don't tell that it is veggie and no one knows the difference...

21 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:16:39pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

How did I miss that?

you blinked.

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:18:03pm

re: #13 mr.fusion

Did Fat Bastard Vegetarian learn how to cook from Obama allies Bill Ayers and Code Pink?

Nope! I'm a CRUNCHY CONSERVATIVE.

23 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:18:32pm

like anyone cares what your eating?....if it ain't Beef-O-Roni what's the point?

24 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:18:32pm

re: #15 darthstar

I'm making Tandoori Chicken tonight.

Hmmmm...I have leftover crab. Crab Curry sound like a nice idea.

25 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:19:20pm

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nope! I'm a CRUNCHY CONSERVATIVE.

crunchy? now how can I not have falafel ?

26 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:20:07pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...I have leftover crab. Crab Curry sound like a nice idea.

huh! it was so good why are there leftovers... huh, huh, huh?

27 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:22:36pm

I need help using this absurdity in a new Pinky and the Brain Episode
for this Summer.......
I'm at a loss.....Pinky is TOO smart to fall for these two writers..!/

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:22:49pm

re: #25 brookly red

crunchy? now how can I not have falafel ?

u r a sekrit muslim.

29 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:23:01pm

Learn ‘Day of Rage’ Egypt Protest Tactics

doesn't at all resemble the American Polite Discussion That Showed Proper Respect For Authority of 1776

30 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:23:09pm

re: #23 albusteve

like anyone cares what your eating?...if it ain't Beef-O-Roni what's the point?

there are 2 ways to jack a thread...

food, or sex...

one can get you banned.

31 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:23:34pm

re: #26 brookly red

Gluttony one of the Seven Deadly Sin??

32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:23:35pm

Well... a judge gonna shut down Obamacare.

whoa.

33 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:23:54pm

re: #26 brookly red

huh! it was so good why are there leftovers... huh, huh, huh?

The crab out here are huge, far more than I can eat in one sitting.

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:23:59pm

re: #30 brookly red

there are 2 ways to jack a thread...

food, or sex...

one can get you banned.

sex with food?

35 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:24:09pm

Evening, Lizards!

My wife made a big pot of French - err, Freedom Onion soup last night. That's on the menu for tonight.

And I'm hearing the NYC area is in for another 36-hour snow storm, starting tomorrow. Is this what life in Canada is like?

36 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:24:20pm

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

u r a sekrit muslim.

kosher falafel that is... comes with a glass of wine :)

37 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:25:11pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

The crab out here are huge, far more than I can eat in one sitting.

I will be right over!

38 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:26:57pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

sex with food?

are we all adults here? OK, think cowgirl sharing a 2 foot hero...

39 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:27:08pm

re: #29 engineer dog

Learn ‘Day of Rage’ Egypt Protest Tactics

doesn't at all resemble the American Polite Discussion That Showed Proper Respect For Authority of 1776

Are you suggesting that we are responsible for teaching the peoples of the modern world to overthrow their natural masters?

40 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:27:16pm

re: #30 brookly red

there are 2 ways to jack a thread...

food, or sex...

one can get you banned.

a bowl of Roni makes some people horny I hear

41 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:27:45pm

re: #38 brookly red

are we all adults here? OK, think cowgirl sharing a 2 foot hero...

is a two-foot hero anything like a 12-inch pianist?

42 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:27:49pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

There is no single Crab or Lobster I cannot consume in one meal!
NONE!!

43 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:28:44pm

re: #40 albusteve

a bowl of Roni makes some people horny I hear

re: #42 reloadingisnotahobby

There is no single Crab or Lobster I cannot consume in one meal!
NONE!!

right fucking on!

44 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:29:41pm

re: #38 brookly red

I'm thinking of that scene from the Coneheads movie where Connie daintily eats a Subway sammich

45 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:29:52pm

re: #32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well... a judge gonna shut down Obamacare.

whoa.

No, a judge is getting his fifteen minutes of fame. Fucking with Floridians' prescription drug coverage improvements? Not advisable.

46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:30:25pm

re: #45 darthstar

I just read the headlines.
/

47 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:31:22pm

re: #40 albusteve

a bowl of Roni makes some people horny I hear

well if the truth be known I used to live with woman who was an orphan from Vietnam... Roni did push her buttons. Sad, but true.

48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:32:18pm

re: #47 brookly red

Oh, hell. Rice-a-roni makes me horny.

49 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:32:22pm

re: #45 darthstar

Florida???
So what's the down side for the Illicit/nonscript/illegal drug coverage??
/ only by half....

50 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:32:46pm

re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, hell. Rice-a-roni makes me horny.

it is made with meat...

51 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:33:01pm

re: #47 brookly red

Pics???/

52 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:33:09pm

re: #50 brookly red

it is made with meat...

unlike Taco Bell beef?

53 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:33:14pm

re: #45 darthstar

No, a judge is getting his fifteen minutes of fame. Fucking with Floridians' prescription drug coverage improvements? Not advisable.

54 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:33:57pm

re: #51 reloadingisnotahobby

Pics???/

credit card number?

55 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:33:57pm

re: #53 albusteve

I couldn't have said it better myself.

56 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:36:18pm

A guy I work with thinks there was some secret code in the State of the union address to tell Egyptians "now" because Obama is a secret plant of the MB.*Sigh*

57 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:36:23pm

Ya'll made me very hungry!!
...Smoked Salmon Salad sound good??
I'm thinkin!!

58 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:37:16pm

re: #56 dragonfire1981

Hope he's not allowed to drive or operate equipment...

59 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:37:22pm

re: #56 dragonfire1981

A guy I work with thinks there was some secret code in the State of the union address to tell Egyptians "now" because Obama is a secret plant of the MB.*Sigh*

THIS is the sputnik moment!

///

60 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:37:53pm

re: #57 reloadingisnotahobby

Ya'll made me very hungry!!
...Smoked Salmon Salad sound good??
I'm thinkin!!

slammin! and high in omega 3 & 6, plus fiber... make it a double!

61 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:38:14pm

re: #55 darthstar

I couldn't have said it better myself.

something is wrong, for a few days now...my cursor is all over the place, stuff disappears...after I post the comments do not return to where I was...there is a problem I don't know how to deal with

62 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:39:31pm

re: #61 albusteve

something is wrong, for a few days now...my cursor is all over the place, stuff disappears...after I post the comments do not return to where I was...there is a problem I don't know how to deal with

Got a good virus scanner? Microsoft security essentials is free if you don't.

63 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:39:31pm

The ice has started in central Indiana.

64 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:39:43pm

re: #61 albusteve

R. P. and Charles have captured your puter??/////

65 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:40:00pm

re: #63 RogueOne

The ice has started in central Indiana.

Big immigrant roundup?

66 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:40:03pm

re: #61 albusteve

something is wrong, for a few days now...my cursor is all over the place, stuff disappears...after I post the comments do not return to where I was...there is a problem I don't know how to deal with

Does refreshing help? I've lost my icon a couple times, especially if I leave the machine for a couple hours. It returns only after a full reboot.

67 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:40:31pm

re: #61 albusteve

something is wrong, for a few days now...my cursor is all over the place, stuff disappears...after I post the comments do not return to where I was...there is a problem I don't know how to deal with

same way as everything else... deal.

68 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:40:59pm

re: #67 brookly red

same way as everything else... deal.

He could always blame Obama. //

69 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:41:37pm

re: #68 darthstar

who always blames Bush...

70 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:41:38pm

re: #62 McSpiff

Got a good virus scanner? Microsoft security essentials is free if you don't.

the newest Norton package with all the bells and whistles...the only thing odd
is at this site...I'll check out the MS thing, thanks

71 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:42:16pm

re: #59 McSpiff

THIS is the sputnik WTF moment!

///

FTFY

72 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:42:18pm

A muslim just gave me an adorable shortbread snowman cookie. Do I risk eating it?

73 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:42:20pm

re: #66 Decatur Deb

Does refreshing help? I've lost my icon a couple times, especially if I leave the machine for a couple hours. It returns only after a full reboot.

no, nor did a reboot

74 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:43:06pm

re: #70 albusteve

the newest Norton package with all the bells and whistles...the only thing odd
is at this site...I'll check out the MS thing, thanks

If its just this site than odds are it isn't a virus or anything like that.

75 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:43:08pm

re: #72 McSpiff

A muslim just gave me an adorable shortbread snowman cookie. Do I risk eating it?

Sounds like a decoy. Aim for the head.

77 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:43:59pm

re: #75 Alexzander

Sounds like a decoy. Aim for the head.

Was he very, very friendly?

78 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:44:24pm

re: #72 McSpiff

A muslim just gave me an adorable shortbread snowman cookie. Do I risk eating it?

well just don't try to bring it on an airplane...

79 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:44:40pm

re: #65 darthstar

Big immigrant roundup?

Hoosiers don't like foreigners but not so much they'd bother with rounding them up.

80 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:45:22pm

re: #72 McSpiff

A muslim just gave me an adorable shortbread snowman cookie. Do I risk eating it?

TAQIYYA!

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:46:21pm

re: #79 RogueOne

Hoosiers don't like foreigners but not so much they'd bother with rounding them up.

So you say. As a UL student, I always looked over my shoulder in Brown County.

82 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:46:58pm

re: #74 McSpiff

If its just this site than odds are it isn't a virus or anything like that.

well that's good...I almost never have PC problems of any sort anymore...I have in the past but now I buy the best programs, make sure of the updates, never open mail I can't ID, don't gamble or porn or download music or vids...I'm pretty vanilla and don't deserve this!....waahhh

83 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:47:35pm

Well, so far it just seems to have been delicious. But I do feel an odd desire to overthrow the government and institute Sharia law... wait, no, just gas. We're good.

84 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:48:01pm

re: #82 albusteve

well that's good...I almost never have PC problems of any sort anymore...I have in the past but now I buy the best programs, make sure of the updates, never open mail I can't ID, don't gamble or porn or download music or vids...I'm pretty vanilla and don't deserve this!...waahhh

are you saying you caught it here?

85 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:48:30pm

re: #82 albusteve

well that's good...I almost never have PC problems of any sort anymore...I have in the past but now I buy the best programs, make sure of the updates, never open mail I can't ID, don't gamble or porn or download music or vids...I'm pretty vanilla and don't deserve this!...waahhh

Get. A. Mac.

86 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:48:35pm

re: #82 albusteve

well that's good...I almost never have PC problems of any sort anymore...I have in the past but now I buy the best programs, make sure of the updates, never open mail I can't ID, don't gamble or porn or download music or vids...I'm pretty vanilla and don't deserve this!...waahhh

Youtube is the Sears catalog of the internet Generation. Discuss.

87 simoom  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:49:02pm

Weird... I flipped past Glenn Beck earlier and he seemed to be on the same track, mixing together the Weatherman Underground, El Baradei and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. I didn't watch for more than a couple minutes so I dunno entirely what he was on about.

88 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:49:09pm

re: #83 McSpiff

Well, so far it just seems to have been delicious. But I do feel an odd desire to overthrow the government and institute Sharia law... wait, no, just gas. We're good.

awww you feel that way every Monday...

89 Kid A  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:49:33pm

"President Barack Obama funder and Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans,..."

Funder? Isn't "donor" more appropriate?

These two losers writers remind me of Steve Martin in "The Jerk": He hates these cans!! STAY AWAY FROM THE CANS!!!!

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:49:45pm

re: #85 reine.de.tout

Get. A. Mac.

I'm not cool enough for a mac.

91 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:50:14pm

re: #85 reine.de.tout

He already said he had the best of everything... I just assumed it was. ;-)

92 Kid A  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:50:15pm

re: #87 simoom

That's just under two minutes of your life that you'll never get back.

93 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:50:39pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

So you say. As a UL student, I always looked over my shoulder in Brown County.

Ha! There's no bag limit on hillbillys!///

94 Kronocide  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:50:53pm

re: #87 simoom

Weird... I flipped past Glenn Beck earlier and he seemed to be on the same track, mixing together the Weatherman Underground, El Baradei and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. I didn't watch for more than a couple minutes so I dunno entirely what he was on about.

'The Middle East is on fire. The Insurrection is Near!'

Pictures of Van Jones.

Oh, and 'Buy Gold.'

I shit you not.

95 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:51:55pm

re: #94 BigPapa

'The Middle East is on fire. The Insurrection is Near!'

Pictures of Van Jones.

Oh, and 'Buy Gold.'

I shit you not.

He's been doing that whole shtick since Dinnerjacket took power. That was way back on headline news. Thanks CNN...

96 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:53:00pm

re: #92 Kid A

That's just under two minutes of your life that you'll never get back.

actually, in Hell you do get your life back...


over, and over, and over again.


muhahahahah!

97 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:53:46pm

1337:

We hope @speak2tweet helps people hear from the voices of Egypt [Link: goo.gl...]


[Link: twitter.com...]

98 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:54:12pm

re: #84 brookly red

are you saying you caught it here?

no...but Ill tell you
one time, over a year ago, someone here posted a link to an Irish bar so I opened it and boom!...everything went nuts, flashing and flickering on the monitor, stuff got huge then moved all around, then shrunk...audio all broken, jumping back and forth....really psychedelic for about 15sec, then everything froze...fried the hard drive

99 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:54:47pm

I'm a self confessed and proud left wing progressive liberal hippy tree hugging moon bat and EVEN I hadn't heard of Code Pink till I started hanging out at LGF.

On the other hand the Muslim Brotherhood is tied in hard with Code Pink. Currently they have a joint bake sale scheduled where all the women will be dressed in pink burkas.

100 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:55:21pm

re: #92 Kid A

That's just under two minutes of your life that you'll never get back.

air ball

101 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:55:44pm

CNN
[Update 12:41 a.m. Tuesday in Cairo, 5:41 p.m. ET Monday] Mobile phone networks will be shut down in Egypt during the next few hours ahead of demonstrators' planned "march of millions," Egypt's information ministry told CNN Tuesday.

102 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:55:55pm

re: #96 brookly red

actually, in Hell you do get your life back...

over, and over, and over again.

muhahahahah!

Sort of like Staten Island.

103 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:56:17pm

re: #100 albusteve

air ball

wrong post, bad fu

104 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:56:39pm

re: #99 Locker

I'm a self confessed and proud left wing progressive liberal hippy tree hugging moon bat and EVEN I hadn't heard of Code Pink till I started hanging out at LGF.

On the other hand the Muslim Brotherhood is tied in hard with Code Pink. Currently they have a joint bake sale scheduled where all the women will be dressed in pink burkas.

Seriously. Reading about my political beliefs on freerepublic is always an eye opening experience... I support people I've never even heard of!

105 Kid A  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:57:00pm

Choice comments from those two twits' story on Breitbart's FAIL site...

1. It certainly looks like something Frances Piven would approve of. She was so delighted with all the riots in Europe.

2. MUSLIMS & DEMOCRATS -- LIFE PARTNERS -- HOT FOR HIRABAH

It is a plain fact, not a question, that Western Leftists march in lock-step agreement with the Muslim enemy on all matters of war.

3. The longer we go without prosecuting the treacherous Left, the bolder they get. We failed to execute John Kerry and Jane Fonda for their high treason, and this is our reward. The wartime Muslim enemy greatly appreciate our traitors.

4. Interesting.

This may explain some of the familiar banners I have seen in Egypt yesterday, as well as, slogans being chanted, IN ENGLISH?

Starting to smell a PINK and PURPLE rat.

5. Bill Ayers and Jodie Evans can eat Sh!t and die. Or, be shot for treason. Pick one.

6, Obama is a Communist. Obama is a front man for the SDS, the Democratic Socialists Of America and the Communists. This anti-American Marxist president reads a teleprompter written by his Saul Aliinsky Communists and Marxists in Chicago. It is time to IMPEACH THIS FRAUDULENT PRETENDER. OUR FIRST PRESIDENT OF COLOR IS RED. OUR FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT FROM THE LAND OF LINCOLN IS OUT TO ENSLAVE US ALL.

But there's no violent rhetoric from the teabagging right, RIGHT? You just can not make this shit up.

106 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:57:10pm

re: #99 Locker

I'm a self confessed and proud left wing progressive liberal hippy tree hugging moon bat and EVEN I hadn't heard of Code Pink till I started hanging out at LGF.

On the other hand the Muslim Brotherhood is tied in hard with Code Pink. Currently they have a joint bake sale scheduled where all the women will be dressed in pink burkas.

If you knew more about CP, you would know that the sarcasm in that is not obvious.

107 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:57:27pm

Well, my hubby had to drive off the highway into the median to avoid being T boned by a merging Neon car that lost control on the slick highway.
He is fine, thank you God.

108 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:57:28pm

Sen. Schumer flunks Civics 101.

"We have three branches of government: we have a House, we have a Senate, we have a President"

109 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:57:35pm

re: #61 albusteve

something is wrong, for a few days now...my cursor is all over the place, stuff disappears...after I post the comments do not return to where I was...there is a problem I don't know how to deal with

Just trying to help but two little things:

1. Mouse batteries.
2. If you are on a laptop and you have the option, set the touchpad to turn off when you are typing.

Probably not it but my wife gets the same behavior from time to time and it's always been one of those two things. Good luck.

110 Kid A  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:57:57pm

re: #96 brookly red

BLLLLLLAAAAAHHHH! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

111 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:58:04pm

Anyone I called a "dolt" on the previous thread, who isn't a dolt, which is probably all 3 of you - my apologies.
Now I'm out for a bit.

112 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:58:24pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

Anyone I called a "dolt" on the previous thread, who isn't a dolt, which is probably all 3 of you - my apologies.
Now I'm out for a bit.

Cough I might be a hot head.

113 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:58:27pm

re: #107 prairiefire

Well, my hubby had to drive off the highway into the median to avoid being T boned by a merging Neon car that lost control on the slick highway.
He is fine, thank you God.

bless it be.

114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:58:28pm

re: #107 prairiefire

I just "whew"ed with you.

115 Kid A  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:58:58pm

re: #108 000G

I saw that yesterday. Sometimes he speaks faster than he thinks. Typical of all political persuasions, of course.

116 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:59:15pm

time for a cocktail...that alwAYS IMPROVES MY ATTITUDE...JEEZUS LOOK AT THAT....posting in cAPs now...something is fucked up and I'm getting pyst....I scroll up thread and WHEN I stop it bounces back to where I Was....look at this crazy shit

117 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:59:18pm

Egyptians protestors distrustful of all existing factions

The fact that Egypt’s opposition – the secular parties and the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood alike – are working together is remarkable, but what they have united around is simple: a call for Mubarak to step down. It is not clear how much further they were willing to go together.

At this point, the opposition is just racing to catch up with the masses, says Mr. Hudaiby, the analyst. “I think they have all been marginalized by this movement. They’re way behind the streets.”

He adds that now that people have now seen what they can do for themselves, they are much more skeptical of political leaders. “People are no longer willing to give anyone carte blanche to act on their behalf,” he says.

The protesters in Tahrir seemed to agree. “We don’t want any of the political leaders who are here now,” said Magda Abdel Hamid Sunday, pointing at opposition leaders speaking to a crowd nearby, including Mohammed El Biltagy of the Muslim Brotherhood and former presidential candidate Ayman Nour of the Ghad party.

“We want a president from the people. One who can feel our pain and knows our troubles.” Ms. Hamid says.

118 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:00:04pm

re: #102 Walter L. Newton

Sort of like Staten Island.

Satan island? gosh who knew...

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:00:21pm

re: #116 albusteve

That's a cool way to spell "pissed" tho.

PSYT.

Might catch on.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:00:40pm

re: #56 dragonfire1981

A guy I work with thinks there was some secret code in the State of the union address to tell Egyptians "now" because Obama is a secret plant of the MB.*Sigh*

I thought Condi told them to do this back in 2005. WHO'S RUNNING THIS SHOW??

121 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:00:59pm

re: #107 prairiefire

Well, my hubby had to drive off the highway into the median to avoid being T boned by a merging Neon car that lost control on the slick highway.
He is fine, thank you God.

Glad to hear.

Dad did that one once, except rain not ice. In those cases its a mandatory sobriety test apparently (considered a single vehicle accident). The RCMP officer who responded considered the fact that he didn't flip the van in this particular situation to be more than enough proof of sobriety.

122 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:01:02pm

re: #94 BigPapa

'The Middle East is on fire. The Insurrection is Near!'

Pictures of Van Jones.

Oh, and 'Buy Gold.'

I shit you not.

Van Jones should sue the fucker. Unbelievable how he is still being smeared.

123 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:01:37pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought Condi told them to do this back in 2005. WHO'S RUNNING THIS SHOW??

Clearly some one is using an out-dated secret decoder ring.

124 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:01:42pm

re: #109 Locker

Just trying to help but two little things:

1. Mouse batteries.
2. If you are on a laptop and you have the option, set the touchpad to turn off when you are typing.

Probably not it but my wife gets the same behavior from time to time and it's always been one of those two things. Good luck.

almost new batteries, cordless mouse and keyboard...it doesn't do this any where else...and it's getting worse..I had to clean out the caps from this comment...I need a drink

125 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:01:48pm

This is the current set of IPv6 addresses online in Egypt: [Link: www.sixxs.net...]

126 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:01:56pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought Condi told them to do this back in 2005. WHO'S RUNNING THIS SHOW??

not me! you want fries with that or no? come on people are waiting!

127 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:02:05pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

Anyone I called a "dolt" on the previous thread, who isn't a dolt, which is probably all 3 of you - my apologies.
Now I'm out for a bit.

Hmmm do I

A) Say its cool, I've been called worse

or

B) make personal attacks, whine, and post snark on other sites.

Decisions, decisions, but I guess I'll go with A

This time.
/que dramatic music

128 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:02:19pm

re: #124 albusteve

almost new batteries, cordless mouse and keyboard...it doesn't do this any where else...and it's getting worse..I had to clean out the caps from this comment...I need a drink

Next thing I'd try is a different browser. If you use IE, try firefox or Chrome. Then try this site and let us know your results.

129 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:03:06pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

Anyone I called a "dolt" on the previous thread, who isn't a dolt, which is probably all 3 of you - my apologies.
Now I'm out for a bit.

I'm good as a stand in dolt. Just replace a name of someone who's more respectable with my name.

130 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:03:12pm

re: #128 Locker

Next thing I'd try is a different browser. If you use IE, try firefox or Chrome. Then try this site and let us know your results.

Are you who I call about the broken cup holder in my cpu?

131 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:03:21pm

re: #109 Locker

speaking of batteries... It would seem electric cars don't work in the cold. Oh my!

132 Charleston Chew  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:04:07pm
Did Muslim Brotherhood Learn ‘Day of Rage’ Egypt Protest Tactics From Obama Allies Bill Ayers and Code Pink?

From this headline, I'm going to assume that Big Government has a proprietary computer program into which they typed "Did ___ Learn 'Day Of Rage' Egypt Protest Tactics From ___ Allies ___ and ___?" and the program automatically filled in random words from a database of wingnut obsessions.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:04:08pm

re: #72 McSpiff

A muslim just gave me an adorable shortbread snowman cookie. Do I risk eating it?

Hard to tell. Do you have any reason to think that this Muslim can bake?

134 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:04:37pm

re: #128 Locker

Next thing I'd try is a different browser. If you use IE, try firefox or Chrome. Then try this site and let us know your results.

I'm using Firefox...I'll switch to IE....wait one

135 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:04:52pm

Life's little mysteries
Of course camera angle and composition make all the difference, but did anyone else notice Tahrir square looks like a big circle?

136 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:05:09pm

re: #116 albusteve

time for a cocktail...that alwAYS IMPROVES MY ATTITUDE...JEEZUS LOOK AT THAT...posting in cAPs now...something is fucked up and I'm getting pyst...I scroll up thread and WHEN I stop it bounces back to where I Was...look at this crazy shit

I used to get a little bit of that rolling problem when trying to post through a slowly-loading thread. Is the hamster wheel turning somewhere? (You did the obvious, like tightening the video and other cables.)

137 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:05:11pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

Hard to tell. Do you have any reason to think that this Muslim can bake?

they leaven?

138 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:05:38pm
139 Charleston Chew  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:06:24pm

re: #128 Locker

I'm a recent Chrome convert from Firefox and am loving the speed both of rendering and interface.

141 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:06:41pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

Hard to tell. Do you have any reason to think that this Muslim can bake?

Apparently purchased from the German bakery down the street.

I mean

ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!11!1!elventy.co

142 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:08:03pm

re: #141 McSpiff

Apparently purchased from the German bakery down the street.

I mean

ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!11!1!elventy.co

/joodel strudel is close to blood libel...

143 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:08:07pm

It was a seriously good cookie tho, little decorated snowman. Not exactly something a college guy will normally pick up for his buddies but I ain't looking a gift horse in the mouth...

144 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:08:11pm

re: #139 Charleston Chew

I'm a recent Chrome convert from Firefox and am loving the speed both of rendering and interface.

Yea I only use Chrome on sites with no advertisements or whatever. I'm still very much reliant on Firefox due to all the great add-ons available but yea man Chrome is fun.

Someone make me an Adblock Plus and a Noscript for Chrome!

145 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:09:06pm

re: #143 McSpiff

It was a seriously good cookie tho, little decorated snowman. Not exactly something a college guy will normally pick up for his buddies but I ain't looking a gift horse in the mouth...

He probably has a crush on you and gave you a roofie cookie ala The Hangover. If you wake up with a tooth missing don't say I didn't warn you.

146 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:09:49pm

re: #144 Locker

[Link: chrome.google.com...]

[Link: chrome.google.com...]

try those?

147 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:11:25pm

Can some monitor plz delete #138?

148 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:11:37pm

re: #145 Locker

He probably has a crush on you and gave you a roofie cookie ala The Hangover. If you wake up with a tooth missing don't say I didn't warn you.

the Danes have an expression, hard to translate...

the thief thinks everyone steals

make of it what you will.

149 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:12:08pm

re: #145 Locker

He probably has a crush on you and gave you a roofie cookie ala The Hangover. If you wake up with a tooth missing don't say I didn't warn you.

You know all the tricks dontcha?

150 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:12:22pm

re: #134 albusteve

I'm using Firefox...I'll switch to IE...wait one

re: #134 albusteve

I'm using Firefox...I'll switch to IE...wait one

this IS IE...thiS thing is fOLLowIng me...I'vE never seeN ANYThinG like it...I'M swutCHING KeYBoards....hahAHAHa!

151 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:12:40pm

re: #147 000G

Can some monitor plz delete #138?

Don't sweat double posts. All deleting one does is give the stalkers a boner wondering what got erased.

152 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:13:13pm

re: #149 McSpiff

I didn't want to go there, but yeah like that.

153 Charleston Chew  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:13:18pm

re: #144 Locker

I use the Adblock and FlashBlock extentions, but I'm not opposed to seeing ads. It is where the money comes from for a lot of good free stuff, I just don't like really obnoxious ads. FlashBlock alone takes care of that problem mainly.

154 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:13:29pm

re: #151 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't sweat double posts. All deleting one does is give the stalkers a boner wondering what got erased.

I didn't know they were capable of such

155 dmon  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:13:35pm

re: #134 albusteve

I had the same problem.......had to uninstall the mouse driver then let windows reinstall it

Disclaimer....am not now nor have i ever been a computer expert

156 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:14:41pm

re: #154 PT Barnum

I didn't know they were capable of such

Rage boners still count.

157 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:15:02pm

re: #155 dmon

I had the same problem...had to uninstall the mouse driver then let windows reinstall it

Disclaimer...am not now nor have i ever been a computer expert

But have you been a witch?

158 dmon  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:15:31pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Only for a short time in my youth

159 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:15:42pm

re: #151 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's not just a double post. The first link is slightly misleading.

160 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:16:42pm

re: #136 Decatur Deb

I used to get a little bit of that rolling problem when trying to post through a slowly-loading thread. Is the hamster wheel turning somewhere? (You did the obvious, like tightening the video and other cables.)

different keyboard now...it's not capping out now, but my scroll is still fucked up?...how can that be? a coincidence?....no spinning wheels

161 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:16:44pm

mouse driver

these are problematic since the mouse always ends up driving the bus into the cheese log

162 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:17:36pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But have you been a witch?

and if you have been, don't worry we have a federal program to put you a the front of the line...

163 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:17:43pm

re: #159 000G

It's not just a double post. The first link is slightly misleading.

Ah

164 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:17:49pm

Mona Eltahawy's rant on #Jan25 on MSNBC Daryl Ratinger Show [Link: on.msnbc.com...]

165 dmon  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:17:59pm

re: #161 engineer dog

Yeh....but now they have developed mice with fully functional human brains.....

166 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:18:16pm

re: #160 albusteve

different keyboard now...it's not capping out now, but my scroll is still fucked up?...how can that be? a coincidence?...no spinning wheels

I'm hacking above my paygrade already.

167 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:18:41pm

re: #160 albusteve

different keyboard now...it's not capping out now, but my scroll is still fucked up?...how can that be? a coincidence?...no spinning wheels

This is a total shot in the dark... but I once somehow had two wireless keyboards connected and there was a book laying on one of them.

168 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:18:56pm

re: #158 dmon

Only for a short time in my youth

Experimentation with the dark arts is perfectly understandable in ones youth.

169 dmon  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:19:57pm

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ive grown way past that....now I am a crusader in the anti Masterbation movement.... unless the wifes at work///

170 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:20:05pm

re: #160 albusteve

Did you check the scroll lock buttons?

171 Locker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:20:13pm

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Experimentation with the dark arts is perfectly understandable in ones youth.

True. I was actually registered as a Libertarian in my youth. The amount of junk mail they send definitely qualifies them as practitioner of the "dark arts".

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:20:30pm

re: #99 Locker

I'm a self confessed and proud left wing progressive liberal hippy tree hugging moon bat and EVEN I hadn't heard of Code Pink till I started hanging out at LGF.

On the other hand the Muslim Brotherhood is tied in hard with Code Pink. Currently they have a joint bake sale scheduled where all the women will be dressed in pink burkas.

Code Pink has gotten involved with some very very bad people. They're connected with ISM, who are the scum of the earth (and whose name never seems to come up on these paranoid rants.) Things like their anti-Ahava campaign and their Gaza march link outward to some pretty awful parties.

That said, the idea that they pull strings in the Middle East is reasonably hilarious.

173 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:20:30pm

re: #167 McSpiff

This is a total shot in the dark... but I once somehow had two wireless keyboards connected and there was a book laying on one of them.

no books, I can't read...seems fine now but that was an expensive keyboard

174 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:20:46pm

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Experimentation with the dark arts is perfectly understandable in ones youth.

Oh, I guess this would be a bad time to get back to the MB, & Egypt and all...

175 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:21:11pm

On Topic: I brushed up on the Muslim Brotherhood this weekend and I'm reminded that the MB was the original source of concern about the secretive plots to Islamisize societies, Islamist front groups posing as "civil rights" operations, etc.
I know the wingnuts have completely destroyed their credibility by association with bigots and Euronazis while proposing wild and stupid conspiracy theories. Sadly these loons are the only ones who are aware that the Muslim Brotherhood, its tactics and frontgroups are dangerous people with a very ugly and dishonest agenda.

176 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:21:19pm

Breitbart and friends are nature's defense against a zombie apocalypse. Zombies feeding on their brains would soon show signs of nutritional deficiency.

177 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:21:58pm

re: #170 Floral Giraffe

Did you check the scroll lock buttons?

don't have one

178 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:23:40pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

On Topic: I brushed up on the Muslim Brotherhood this weekend and I'm reminded that the MB was the original source of concern about the secretive plots to Islamisize societies, Islamist front groups posing as "civil rights" operations, etc.
I know the wingnuts have completely destroyed their credibility by association with bigots and Euronazis while proposing wild and stupid conspiracy theories. Sadly these loons are the only ones who are aware that the Muslim Brotherhood, its tactics and frontgroups are dangerous people with a very ugly and dishonest agenda.

Oh my... and what to do about it?

no seriously KT, I admire your honesty in the face of scorn. There is real danger here.

179 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:23:58pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

On Topic: I brushed up on the Muslim Brotherhood this weekend and I'm reminded that the MB was the original source of concern about the secretive plots to Islamisize societies, Islamist front groups posing as "civil rights" operations, etc.
I know the wingnuts have completely destroyed their credibility by association with bigots and Euronazis while proposing wild and stupid conspiracy theories. Sadly these loons are the only ones who are aware that the Muslim Brotherhood, its tactics and frontgroups are dangerous people with a very ugly and dishonest agenda.

you can put lipstick on a pig and all that...I wouldn't trust them

180 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:25:49pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

Did you see Why we shouldn't fear the Muslim Brotherhood?

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:26:20pm

re: #171 Locker

True. I was actually registered as a Libertarian in my youth. The amount of junk mail they send definitely qualifies them as practitioner of the "dark arts".

I had the misfortune to work for a prominent left-wing Jewish magazine editor during Ralph Nader's ill-starred presidential campaign.

The Nader campaign sent out a press release every time Ralph sneezed. And they faxed it.

Our fax machine ran out of paper more or less continuously.

Also, angry left-wing Jewish women with heavy Brooklyn accents kept calling me up to scream because Michael Lerner had abandoned the Democrats.

Lasted four months on that job. I think we saw the handwriting on the wall when I refused to accompany the entourage to the shadow convention in L.A.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:27:57pm

re: #178 brookly red

Oh my... and what to do about it?

no seriously KT, I admire your honesty in the face of scorn. There is real danger here.

Ain't no scorn from this direction. The MB are dangerous as hell, which is one reason Mubarak has been drawing a steady paycheck to keep them scared and relatively immobile for a long, long time.

What we're gonna do about that is whole different kettle of fish.

183 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:29:56pm

re: #178 brookly red

Oh my... and what to do about it?

no seriously KT, I admire your honesty in the face of scorn. There is real danger here.

There's not much that can be done about it. MB fronts like CAIR (or maybe the Muslim Students Association) aren't going to take over the US. They do pose a danger in terms of financing terrorism but we already have laws against that. Same with the UK, they are not going to take over the country.

The MB developed these tactics as a practical method of survival while operating in repressive secular dictatorships in the Middle East and I think their efforts are finally starting to pay off. Not much we can do aside from watch and see what happens if they do gain power. They might remain practical and rule pragmatically, not oppressing their citizens, not being too strict, etc. Maybe not.
Either way the MB is a threat to their fellow Muslims far more than they are to us.

184 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:30:47pm

re: #180 000G

Did you see Why we shouldn't fear the Muslim Brotherhood?

he says the MB repudiates their old position of violence...so what?....lying is no big deal to them...what do they bring to the table now? have they outlined their agenda recently, besides backing off on their Coptic repression?...is their attitude toward Israel different?

185 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:31:11pm

re: #183 Killgore Trout

Either way the MB is a threat to their fellow Muslims far more than they are to us.

How so?

186 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:31:14pm

re: #180 000G

Did you see Why we shouldn't fear the Muslim Brotherhood?

I guess the clarifying questions are:

1- Scary to whom?
2- Scary for what reasons?

For Israel, virtually any massive change is I suppose scary if it means the end of the CPAs.

187 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:32:15pm

re: #186 Alexzander

I guess the clarifying questions are:

1- Scary to whom?
2- Scary for what reasons?

For Israel, virtually any massive change is I suppose scary if it means the end of the CPAs.

For Israel, the question will be whether Egypt can remain a democracy if it becomes one. Democracies usually do not go to war with each other, from a historical perspective.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:32:43pm

re: #183 Killgore Trout

There's not much that can be done about it. MB fronts like CAIR (or maybe the Muslim Students Association) aren't going to take over the US. They do pose a danger in terms of financing terrorism but we already have laws against that. Same with the UK, they are not going to take over the country.

The MB developed these tactics as a practical method of survival while operating in repressive secular dictatorships in the Middle East and I think their efforts are finally starting to pay off. Not much we can do aside from watch and see what happens if they do gain power. They might remain practical and rule pragmatically, not oppressing their citizens, not being too strict, etc. Maybe not.
Either way the MB is a threat to their fellow Muslims far more than they are to us.

If the concern is that the MB is going to take over the United States, then that's a silly concern, yes.

My worry is--what are they going to do about Israel, and where are they going to take Egypt?

189 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:33:56pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #183 Killgore Trout

well I kind think calling for an orderly transition was not the right thing to do... but hey I am just a wingnut.

190 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:35:21pm

re: #186 Alexzander

I guess the clarifying questions are:

1- Scary to whom?
2- Scary for what reasons?

For Israel, virtually any massive change is I suppose scary if it means the end of the CPAs.

I said last thread, massive change is upon the ME, whether through riot, coup, or brain hemorrhage. Better cope.

191 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:35:50pm

re: #184 albusteve

he says the MB repudiates their old position of violence...so what?...lying is no big deal to them...what do they bring to the table now? have they outlined their agenda recently, besides backing off on their Coptic repression?...is their attitude toward Israel different?

I think you should read that interview again. Maybe also check out [Link: home.gwu.edu...]

192 simoom  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:36:51pm

Sheesh. Special Report just used Robert Spencer in their package on the potential for a fundamentalist takeover of the Egyptian government.

193 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:37:59pm

re: #191 000G

I think you should read that interview again. Maybe also check out [Link: home.gwu.edu...]

is that your idea of a convo?...go read it again?
whatever...obviously you have little problem with the MB...that's fine by me, I'll remember you when the discussion turns to Israel regarding the MB

194 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:39:28pm

re: #193 albusteve

is that your idea of a convo?...go read it again?

Yes, because some of the questions you asked are answered in that very interview I linked.

whatever...obviously you have little problem with the MB...

That's a lie.

that's fine by me, I'll remember you when the discussion turns to Israel regarding the MB

That's nice.

195 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:40:12pm

re: #189 brookly red

re: #183 Killgore Trout

well I kind think calling for an orderly transition was not the right thing to do... but hey I am just a wingnut.

Why not? A transition is most likely going to occur. If we are friendly with the new government then perhaps we can still have some influence, even if it isn't as great as it used to be.

On the other hand, if we antagonize the new government then attempts at influence, such as asking the to prevent weapons shipments to palestine, won't amount to a hill of beans.

196 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:40:15pm

re: #194 000G

Yes, because some of the questions you asked are answered in that very interview I linked.

That's a lie.

That's nice.

then reject the MB

197 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:40:36pm

re: #38 brookly red

are we all adults here? OK, think cowgirl sharing a 2 foot hero...

See I tried to picture this and all that sprang to mind is vinegary onions falling all over my chest and the whole fantasy went downhill from there.

Why does my mind sabotage that which should be pleasant?

198 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:41:03pm

re: #196 albusteve

then reject the MB

How about you reject Mubarak first?

199 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:43:44pm

re: #189 brookly red

re: #183 Killgore Trout

well I kind think calling for an orderly transition was not the right thing to do... but hey I am just a wingnut.

Violent disorderly transitions are better? Am I missing something?

200 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:43:55pm

We supplied Egypt with a good number of "Man Portable Surface to Air Missiles... " sure would suck if they came back to bite us in the ass.

201 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:45:18pm

Dima_Khatib Dima Khatib أنا ديمة
by ioerror

Tahrir Square is breathing revolution. More than 250 thousand people are said to be there now, at 1.30am local time #egypt #jan25 #cairo

202 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:45:30pm

I reject Mubarak and the MB.
Can I have my cookie now?!

203 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:46:07pm

re: #198 000G

How about you reject Mubarak first?

I have

204 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:46:18pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

I reject Mubarak and the MB.
Can I have my cookie now?!

Once more with feeling.

205 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:46:53pm

Guys, there is only one way to solve this.

We need to have a walk-off.

206 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:47:07pm

re: #199 Fozzie Bear

Violent disorderly transitions are better? Am I missing something?

only that some people hate you... no not your leaders, no not your system, you. But hey it is all good.

207 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:47:13pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

I reject Mubarak and the MB.
Can I have my cookie now?!

I ate it upthread...

208 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:47:17pm

re: #205 Alexzander

Guys, there is only one way to solve this.

We need to have a walk-off.

How about a Yo mama contest?

209 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:47:54pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

How about a Yo mama contest?

"Yo mamma is such a brutal dictator she..."

210 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:48:02pm

Rejecting the MB doesn't mean shit. If Egypt is to have a semblance of a democratic process, then there will be some MB representation in the Egyptian government.

This is something people are going to have to get used to, because it doesn't seem like something that can be completely avoided.

211 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:48:36pm

re: #205 Alexzander

Guys, there is only one way to solve this.

We need to have a walk-off.

Ok, but if you pull out "blue steel", i'm out. That shit is like cheating.

212 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:48:42pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

How about a Yo mama contest?

yo mama is too stupid to learn from Iran.

213 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:48:56pm

re: #210 Fozzie Bear

Rejecting the MB doesn't mean shit. If Egypt is to have a semblance of a democratic process, then there will be some MB representation in the Egyptian government.

This is something people are going to have to get used to, because it doesn't seem like something that can be completely avoided.

True. Even Mubarek couldn't stop that.

214 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:49:03pm

re: #210 Fozzie Bear

Rejecting the MB doesn't mean shit. If Egypt is to have a semblance of a democratic process, then there will be some MB representation in the Egyptian government.

This is something people are going to have to get used to, because it doesn't seem like something that can be completely avoided.

Unless we ensure Egypt does not have a semblance of democracy.

215 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:49:32pm

From The Google:

Some weekend work that will (hopefully) enable more Egyptians to be heard
1/31/2011 02:27:00 PM
Like many people we’ve been glued to the news unfolding in Egypt and thinking of what we could do to help people on the ground. Over the weekend we came up with the idea of a speak-to-tweet service—the ability for anyone to tweet using just a voice connection.

We worked with a small team of engineers from Twitter, Google and SayNow, a company we acquired last week, to make this idea a reality. It’s already live and anyone can tweet by simply leaving a voicemail on one of these international phone numbers (+16504194196 or +390662207294 or +97316199855) and the service will instantly tweet the message using the hashtag #egypt. No Internet connection is required. People can listen to the messages by dialing the same phone numbers or going to twitter.com/speak2tweet.

We hope that this will go some way to helping people in Egypt stay connected at this very difficult time. Our thoughts are with everyone there.

Posted by Ujjwal Singh, CoFounder of SayNow and AbdelKarim Mardini, Product Manager, Middle East & North Africa

Technology, love it.

216 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:50:53pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

I reject Mubarak and the MB.
Can I have my cookie now?!

Sooo.... they lied about the Dark Side having cookies!

217 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:51:43pm

re: #215 Stanley Sea

Listen to a message here

[Link: www.saynow.com...]

218 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:52:12pm

re: #214 McSpiff

Unless we ensure Egypt does not have a semblance of democracy.

Well, lets hope the assholes screaming for us to prop up another dictatorship don't get their way. Aiding autocratic regimes who oppress their own people for geopolitical fun and profit is fucking disgusting, and the US has done far too much of that.

Maybe it's time to realize that we don't own the planet. Radical thinking, I know.

219 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:52:40pm

re: #203 albusteve

I have

I was being facetious. I don't think it matters at all what you or I "reject". It's up to the Egyptian people.

I think this might be more helpful in terms of discourse: If I was an Egyptian, I sure would not vote for them, but I also would not delude myself with the idea of excluding them from upcoming elections. I hope for the sake of the Egpytians that the MB will not hijack and destroy the democratic process that hopefully will set course soon. That they will I don't think has been proven to be likely. That they are extremely aggressive towards Israel is true, however if they manage to not fuck up the democratic process, I don't think Israel has much too fear for the simple fact that democracies usually do not go to war with each other.

220 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:52:57pm

re: #214 McSpiff

Unless we ensure Egypt does not have a semblance of democracy.

and then... what?

221 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:55:25pm

Stop me if you've heard this one - Utah wants to name a state gun. Why can't they be happy with a state bird like everybody else?

222 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:56:02pm

re: #220 brookly red

and then... what?

30 more years of stability? Look, I'm not advocating this but it wouldn't be hard for the US, using its various PSYOPS assets to convince the Egyptian people that they themselves had selected some popular young officer to lead a transitional government that never quite transitions.

People act like we either need to support MB or Mubarak. I'm just saying there's a 3rd way if we choose to take it.

223 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:56:11pm

re: #218 Fozzie Bear


Maybe it's time to realize that we don't own the planet. Radical thinking, I know.

There are many ways in which we need to realize that, and by today's standards it is indeed radical.

224 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:57:13pm

re: #218 Fozzie Bear

Well, lets hope the assholes screaming for us to prop up another dictatorship don't get their way. Aiding autocratic regimes who oppress their own people for geopolitical fun and profit is fucking disgusting, and the US has done far too much of that.

Maybe it's time to realize that we don't own the planet. Radical thinking, I know.

You know you are exactly right we don't own the planet... we do however have it in our best interests to resist (with force if necessary) those who would claim to. We have done it before, let us position our selfs so as not to have to do it again. Yes?

225 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:58:11pm

re: #222 McSpiff

And I would imagine, that is an option that is being discussed, in the US.

226 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:58:20pm

Hi all. Back from my weekend away. Didn't touch a computer or hear any news so it's been catch up time. Right now I just hope that things in Egypt go well and not head straight into the crazy crapper.

Beyond that., I FINALLY got my computer back from the computer hospital. I was so happy. Hooked it up, turned it on, changed the screen resolution, put my desktop picture back on the screen and klabam! it blue screened BAD_POOL_HEADERED again.

Needless to same I'm rightly PO'd right now.

227 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:59:07pm

re: #224 brookly red

You know you are exactly right we don't own the planet... we do however have it in our best interests to resist (with force if necessary) those who would claim to. We have done it before, let us position our selfs so as not to have to do it again. Yes?

How do you propose we do that in this case?

228 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:59:12pm

re: #226 Jadespring

Yuck

229 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:59:31pm

re: #219 000G

I was being facetious. I don't think it matters at all what you or I "reject". It's up to the Egyptian people.

I think this might be more helpful in terms of discourse: If I was an Egyptian, I sure would not vote for them, but I also would not delude myself with the idea of excluding them from upcoming elections. I hope for the sake of the Egpytians that the MB will not hijack and destroy the democratic process that hopefully will set course soon. That they will I don't think has been proven to be likely. That they are extremely aggressive towards Israel is true, however if they manage to not fuck up the democratic process, I don't think Israel has much too fear for the simple fact that democracies usually do not go to war with each other.

and like I've said before...there is a difference between propping up a repressive regime and cutting a deal regarding the CDAs...dictators can come and go, that's up to the people to find a leader...stroking Mu is not all what it seems, not that anybody cares anymore...Carter set that deal up, a real friend of guys like Mubarak....it's about Israel, not him

230 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:59:32pm

re: #225 Floral Giraffe

And I would imagine, that is an option that is being discussed, in the US.

Part of me thinks its already in motion.

231 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:00:06pm

re: #227 prononymous

How do you propose we do that in this case?

well step one is to admit there is a problem.

232 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:00:39pm

re: #231 brookly red

well step one is to admit there is a problem.

Step two is to realize it isn't our problem.

233 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:01:47pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

Step two is to realize it isn't our problem.

You'd be in the minority with that assessment. Egypt has huge strategic value to the West.

234 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:02:03pm

re: #231 brookly red

well step one is to admit there is a problem.

There is a problem.

Ok, what's the next step?

235 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:02:32pm

re: #230 McSpiff

Part of me thinks its already in motion.

It's a country of 80 million people, most of whom are pissed off and hate us. I don't think it would be wise to poke that angry bee's nest any more than we have.

236 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:02:41pm

KatieS Katie Jacobs Stanton
by ioerror

It's an incredible, moving experience to hear the voices and messages from @speak2tweet. #Egypt

237 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:02:43pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

Step two is to realize it isn't our problem.

yes... that worked out so well for the Brits. Wake up, this is for real.

238 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:03:03pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

Step two is to realize it isn't our problem.

depends on how far you will go to support your friends...I consider Islamists that threaten Israel to be our problem

239 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:04:00pm

re: #233 McSpiff

You'd be in the minority with that assessment. Egypt has huge strategic value to the West.

Of course it is. It's also not our future we are fucking with. It's other people, whose interest don't necessarily align with our own. It would be nice if their government took their citizens into consideration before the US.

240 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:04:05pm

re: #235 Fozzie Bear

It's a country of 80 million people, most of whom are pissed off and hate us. I don't think it would be wise to poke that angry bee's nest any more than we have.

I don't think we are...BO has done okay so far

241 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:05:21pm

re: #235 Fozzie Bear

It's a country of 80 million people, most of whom are pissed off and hate us. I don't think it would be wise to poke that angry bee's nest any more than we have.

We have a situation where the people are now beginning to feel, after some very smart maneuvers that the Egyptian military now protects them and to a certain degree represents them against the Mubarak state. Western Media has taken on an attitude of "Good work protesters, but respect the military". The same military that has worked EXTREMELY closely with the US military.

Mubarak bad, Military good. Military cares about you .

242 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:05:27pm

re: #221 makeitstop

Stop me if you've heard this one - Utah wants to name a state gun. Why can't they be happy with a state bird like everybody else?

Because you can't shoot the state bird!!
...as much as you'd like too...

243 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:05:30pm

re: #238 albusteve

depends on how far you will go to support your friends...I consider Islamists that threaten Israel to be our problem

This is where I have disconnect. It's an Egyptian people's problem. Their society, their lives.

Of course things will be affected, but to view this as a problem for Israel now, and worrying about the threat of Islamists takes away from the people of Egypt and their struggle.

It's a very one-sided view.

244 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:06:16pm

re: #241 McSpiff

It's a conscript army in a disproportionately young country. Think about that for a minute.

245 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:06:36pm

re: #239 Fozzie Bear

Of course it is. It's also not our future we are fucking with. It's other people, whose interest don't necessarily align with our own. It would be nice if their government took their citizens into consideration before the US.

well consider the options to the CDAs...the Israelis mopped the floor with Egypt and they can do it again....was it wrong to step in and save Egypt's bacon in 1973?....for that alone they owed us one

246 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:06:56pm

re: #224 brookly red

You know you are exactly right we don't own the planet... we do however have it in our best interests to resist (with force if necessary) those who would claim to. We have done it before, let us position our selfs so as not to have to do it again. Yes?

How'd that work out in Iraq?

Partnered with Iran? Check.
Ethnically-cleansed? Check.
Christians fearing for their lives? Check.
Training ground for jihadis? Check.
Antagonized Muslims throughout the world? Check.
Undermined American credibility? Check.
Undermined American "moral authority?" Check.

Become a shining example that undermines the political power of Islamists ? As evens in Gaza, Lebanon, and now Egypt have shown, can't check that one, now can we?

Shall we move on to discussing the benefits using force "in our best interests" to support an oppressive autocrat in Iran?

247 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:06:57pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

It's a conscript army in a disproportionately young country. Think about that for a minute.

true that, very much.

248 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:07:00pm

re: #235 Fozzie Bear

It's a country of 80 million people, most of whom are pissed off and hate us. I don't think it would be wise to poke that angry bee's nest any more than we have.

Uhm: [Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

They hate Israel a lot more than the US.

249 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:07:29pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

It's a conscript army in a disproportionately young country. Think about that for a minute.

The military we supply, educate, fund and train with. You haven't disproven anything I've said.

250 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:08:41pm

re: #249 McSpiff

The military we supply, educate, fund and train with. You haven't disproven anything I've said.

I don't think conspiracy theories like yours can be "disproven".

251 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:08:47pm

re: #248 000G

Uhm: [Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

They hate Israel a lot more than the US.

so they will attack us last?

252 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:08:57pm

There's always guys like Breitbart to exploit the worst of America

253 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:09:02pm

re: #243 Stanley Sea

This is where I have disconnect. It's an Egyptian people's problem. Their society, their lives.

Of course things will be affected, but to view this as a problem for Israel now, and worrying about the threat of Islamists takes away from the people of Egypt and their struggle.

It's a very one-sided view.

I'm talking about supporting Israel...it's a multi faceted problem and Israel is a major player...I'm not abandoning the people if that's what you are implying

254 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:09:14pm

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

I could not resist, lemon sorbet? zero degrees? Frank Zappa had a warning about that

255 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:09:21pm

re: #249 McSpiff

The military we supply, educate, fund and train with. You haven't disproven anything I've said.

I'm not trying to disprove anything. I'm just pointing out factors which would explain the sentiment regarding the military in Egyptian society.

How do we feel about our boys in military service? Would it not make sense if they felt similarly?

256 Alaska Kim  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:09:31pm

whoa! no one has said this is all Palin's fault!

//

257 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:09:42pm

re: #221 makeitstop

Stop me if you've heard this one - Utah wants to name a state gun. Why can't they be happy with a state bird like everybody else?

lol

If they get a state gun, oregon gets a state weed strain

258 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:10:05pm

re: #256 Alaska Kim

whoa! no one has said this is all Palin's fault!

//

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

259 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:10:45pm

re: #256 Alaska Kim

whoa! no one has said this is all Palin's fault!

//

and they say there are no miricals .

260 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:10:50pm

re: #256 Alaska Kim

whoa! no one has said this is all Palin's fault!

//

Lets just hope she keeps her word-salad-hole firmly shut regarding this situation. This is a situation in which stupidly worded missives can cause real problems.

261 Alaska Kim  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:07pm

re: #258 000G

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I refuse to go there, they make me want to shoot something.

262 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:10pm

re: #253 albusteve

I'm talking about supporting Israel...it's a multi faceted problem and Israel is a major player...I'm not abandoning the people if that's what you are implying

No, I 'm not. This is where I fall into my optimism spiel, and am not booga booga yet. I see a lot of commentary heading into the booga booga range and I just automatically cringe.

263 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:16pm

Andrew Breitbart Presents: Big Peace Butthurt

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:26pm

re: #260 Fozzie Bear

Lets just hope she keeps her word-salad-hole firmly shut regarding this situation. This is a situation in which stupidly worded missives can cause real problems.

I think of that woman in Obama's place, and I just laugh my balls off

265 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:33pm

re: #256 Alaska Kim

whoa! no one has said this is all Palin's fault!

//

She did that for us already. I'm sure you read it.

266 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:34pm

re: #257 WindUpBird

lol

If they get a state gun, oregon gets a state weed strain

a fine idea...NM already has one...unofficially

267 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:47pm

So, brookly what is the next step?

I see you are very good at sitting back and criticizing the ideas/actions of others and making squishy non-committal answers and dodges to complex questions.

But where is the meat? How do you think we should handle this?

268 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:56pm

Oh. And Blackfive is anther worthless pile.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:11:56pm

re: #251 brookly red

so they will attack us last?

I don't think Egypt's going to be attacking the United States any time soon. Just a guess.

270 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:12:51pm

re: #267 prononymous

So, brookly what is the next step?

I see you are very good at sitting back and criticizing the ideas/actions of others and making squishy non-committal answers and dodges to complex questions.

But where is the meat? How do you think we should handle this?

Sorry, I must laugh now. Good try!

271 Winny Spencer  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:12:59pm

re: #246 Talking Point Detective

In other words: The world would be a much better place today if Saddam Hussein was still in power in Iraq.

272 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:13:06pm

re: #268 Gus 802

Oh. And Blackfive is anther worthless pile.

is that one of the wargasm blogs?

273 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:13:21pm

re: #251 brookly red

so they will attack us last?

Again, it's crucial to know that democracies usually do not go to war with each other.

274 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:13:50pm

re: #248 000G

Uhm: [Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

They hate Israel a lot more than the US.

I think that's the point, that poking the angry bee's nest will turn out poorly for Israel :P

275 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:14:06pm

re: #250 000G

I don't think conspiracy theories like yours can be "disproven".

What conspiracy theory? The most pro-America group in Egypt is currently in control of the country. The head of the army was in Washington when this started. If we were really supporting Mubarak he would have never been allowed to fly home. Seems like its common sense that this status quo of a) content people b) pro-American control is pretty much the best case for the USG and Israel. Aka what Egypt was for the last 30 years.

276 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:14:13pm

re: #267 prononymous

So, brookly what is the next step?

I see you are very good at sitting back and criticizing the ideas/actions of others and making squishy non-committal answers and dodges to complex questions.

But where is the meat? How do you think we should handle this?

well first I would stop listing to people like you... consider that done. Then I would as president make it clear that we would support our allies, by any means necessary.

277 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:14:33pm

re: #272 WindUpBird

is that one of the wargasm blogs?

Yeah, pretty much. They all act as though they deserve to be respected because it's made up of veterans. One of their dimwit members sent me some stupid Tweet the other day about me being "another Kosling".

278 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:14:58pm

re: #271 Winny Spencer

In other words: The world would be a much better place today if Saddam Hussein was still in power in Iraq.

some people need to simplify so that it's all talking points...when presented with those ridiculous lists, you know there is no debate

279 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:15:16pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think Egypt's going to be attacking the United States any time soon. Just a guess.

no not officially, but that is the rub.

280 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:15:53pm

re: #271 Winny Spencer

In other words: The world would be a much better place today if Saddam Hussein was still in power in Iraq.

No, but it might be a better place had we not supported him so fervently in the first place, and furnished him so lavishly with weaponry.

281 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:16:05pm

re: #276 brookly red

well first I would stop listing to people like you... consider that done. Then I would as president make it clear that we would support our allies, by any means necessary.

I mean we did sign the treaty, yes?

282 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:16:47pm

re: #280 Fozzie Bear

No, but it might be a better place had we not supported him so fervently in the first place, and furnished him so lavishly with weaponry.

yes it might indeed... but we did.

283 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:16:56pm

re: #279 brookly red

no not officially, but that is the rub.

Honest question: what does it mean to attack unofficially in this situation?

284 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:17:25pm

re: #256 Alaska Kim

whoa! no one has said this is all Palin's fault!

//

That's because Sarah Palin knows nothing about Egypt, and they, thank God, probably don't know much about her.

Although my mother was pointing out the other night, that Egyptians seem to do well with female leaders. Hatshepsut. Cleopatra.

Worth a try.

285 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:17:37pm

re: #260 Fozzie Bear

Trade ya a Palin shut up for a Biden quiet moment.
Mubarak is not a dictator. Heh. Heck leave all the talking about Egypt to Sec State Clinton for now.

286 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:17:44pm

re: #275 McSpiff

What conspiracy theory?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:17:57pm

re: #258 000G

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

LOL.

288 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:18:24pm

re: #276 brookly red

well first I would stop listing to people like you... consider that done. Then I would as president make it clear that we would support our allies, by any means necessary.

So we stand by the dictator and then have zero influence, but rather an additional helping of hatred, when he is overthrown? Try asking them not to use our weapons against us then.

Listen to whomever you like. I prefer to make reasoned opinions on my own.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:18:30pm

re: #264 WindUpBird

I think of that woman in Obama's place, and I just laugh my balls off

I'm glad you find it humorous. I just shudder. And shudder. And shudder.

290 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:05pm

re: #271 Winny Spencer

In other words: The world would be a much better place today if Saddam Hussein was still in power in Iraq.

The world might be a better place tomorrow if the US didn't have two-thirds of its force bogged down or reconstituting.

291 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:37pm

re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist

I still don't understand how anybody could have voted for her.

/ *ducks*

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:39pm

re: #273 000G

Again, it's crucial to know that democracies usually do not go to war with each other.

I think it was Tom Friedman who wrote that no nation with a McDonalds had ever bombed another nation with a McDonalds.

He was wrong about three months after the book came out, due to US intervention in the Balkans, but it was a rather interesting statement to consider.

293 Alaska Kim  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:49pm

re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist

That's because Sarah Palin knows nothing about Egypt, and they, thank God, probably don't know much about her.

Although my mother was pointing out the other night, that Egyptians seem to do well with female leaders. Hatshepsut. Cleopatra.

Worth a try.

doesn't seem to matter what Sarah knows or doesn't know.... everything is her fault. it's automatic.

294 brookly red  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:52pm

any way I think that this thread is past reason. so good night good folks, be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.

295 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:52pm

re: #285 Rightwingconspirator

Trade ya a Palin shut up for a Biden quiet moment.
Mubarak is not a dictator. Heh. Heck leave all the talking about Egypt to Sec State Clinton for now.

I liked [Link: twitter.com...] and [Link: twitter.com...] so far.

296 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:19:57pm

re: #221 makeitstop

Stop me if you've heard this one - Utah wants to name a state gun. Why can't they be happy with a state bird like everybody else?

I read about that the other week. Weirdos. I never heard of a "state gun" before. Had this been done at another time it would have been OK. But in light of recent events it's just weird.

297 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:20:18pm

re: #271 Winny Spencer

In other words: The world would be a much better place today if Saddam Hussein was still in power in Iraq.

The ol' Saddam was a bad man non sequitur ploy, eh?

The contention was made that our best interests are served by using force to interfere in the internal politics of another nation. Which of the outcomes of the invasion I listed do you think is incorrect?

And as for the non-sequitur: "The world" is not necessarily a better place now than it was with Saddam in power. It's even questionable about Iraq. Have you seen polls of Iraqis about the invasion?

298 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:20:33pm

re: #258 000G

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

LOL

299 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:20:46pm

Colorado needs a "state sex toy". Should it be the dildo or the butt plug?

//

300 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:21:01pm

re: #280 Fozzie Bear

No, but it might be a better place had we not supported him so fervently in the first place, and furnished him so lavishly with weaponry.

we could have done that with a benevolent leader as well...Mubarak's behavior was not molded by out aid...what was the alternative back in 73?...Israel was kicking the shit out of everybody, mainly the Egyptions...that money is not clean and I've said so...but we gave the Jews money to...almost everybody on the planet thought it was a fine agreement...they won the Nobel, now you come along and trash the whole gig, but don't offer any perspective in the real world...it's all idealistic blather

301 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:21:22pm

re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist

It all kind of depends how much you buy into "democratic peace theory" and with what kind of political philosophy.

302 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:22:27pm

re: #299 Gus 802

Or, should you get to pick your own?

303 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:23:00pm

re: #299 Gus 802

Colorado needs a "state sex toy". Should it be the dildo or the butt plug?

//

I read Colorado as Nevada. I don't know, it just made more sense.

304 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:23:11pm

re: #302 Floral Giraffe

Or, should you get to pick your own?

Yeah, but we need to pick one so we can get the artwork done!

//

305 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:23:18pm

re: #257 WindUpBird

lol

If they get a state gun, oregon gets a state weed strain

If you guys get one, I demand equal time.

306 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:23:35pm

re: #299 Gus 802

Colorado needs a "state sex toy". Should it be the dildo or the butt plug?

//

They think the Colt 1911 is a sex toy.

307 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:23:56pm

re: #306 Decatur Deb

They think the Colt 1911 is a sex toy.

DING

308 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:24:34pm

re: #306 Decatur Deb

They think the Colt 1911 is a sex toy.

How could I forget. The Colt 1911: the ultimate phallus.

//

309 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:25:07pm

Women of #Egypt have been demonstrating 4 almost 200 years! (Photo was taken in 1919) #Jan25

[Link: twitpic.com...]

310 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:26:00pm

re: #225 Floral Giraffe

And I would imagine, that is an option that is being discussed, in the US.

Some reporting on actual discussions, probably outdated by now, though: [Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

311 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:26:06pm

Female activist in Cairo being interviewed live on AJ right now:
link

312 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:26:08pm

re: #240 albusteve

I don't think we are...BO has done okay so far

Add this to the list that includes capping the Somali pirates.

313 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:28:48pm

re: #294 brookly red

any way I think that this thread is past reason. so good night good folks, be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.

Another dodge. I always think carefully about what I ask for.

Good night.

314 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:28:55pm

re: #312 prairiefire

Add this to the list that includes capping the Somali pirates.

yes...he made a good decision there, one he really had to make

315 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:30:58pm

re: #309 Stanley Sea

Women of #Egypt have been demonstrating 4 almost 200 years! (Photo was taken in 1919) #Jan25

[Link: twitpic.com...]

3000 years. Trans: "Shut down the dancing girls and beer-makers at the seasonal pyramid-builders' village, or this is your PCOD."

[Link: art-canyon.com...]

316 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:32:56pm

Clearly all revolutionaries seeking democracy and freedom from tyranny could only have learned it from one place: America's "founding fathers".

317 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:35:00pm

Coptic Christians See a Safer Egypt With Mubarak at Helm


Many Copts worry that Mr. Mubarak's exit would leave them dangerously exposed—either by chaos, or to a government that may be more tolerant of Islamist extremists.

Pope Shenouda III, head of the Coptic Church, expressed support for Mr. Mubarak in an interview with Egyptian state television Monday. "We have called the president and told him we are all with you and the people are with you," he said, according to a transcript of the interview on the state television's website.
....
"We need Mubarak. What we need above all is to be safe," said Samy Farag, director of the St. Mark's Hospital, which is attached to the church and where the dead and injured were brought immediately after the bombing.

"We feel safer with him because he heads a big, strong party. If he leaves, parties will come to power that we don't know," said the 65-year-old doctor. He added that this included any government that might be headed by Mohamed ElBaradei, the Nobel Prize winner and former international nuclear official.

"We just don't know what their policies toward Christians would be," Dr. Farag said.

319 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:38:06pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

Coptic Christians See a Safer Egypt With Mubarak at Helm

The Coptic Pope just made a serious bet, with his flock's butts on the table.

320 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:38:30pm

Why Egypt is different from Iran (Economist)

A withdrawal of American support for Hosni Mubarak could signal both to elite rivals and to ordinary citizens that the president had lost the confidence of his patron. That could be a major factor in triggering a coup or a revolution. Our position today is in some ways less like our position during the Green Revolution in Iran than it is like Mikhail Gorbachev's position during the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia, or perhaps like John F. Kennedy's position in South Vietnam in 1963, when a signal that America would be receptive to a change of leadership quickly led to the coup that ousted Ngo Dinh Diem.

321 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:38:50pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

Coptic Christians See a Safer Egypt With Mubarak at Helm

We need a victory somewhere soon. Turkey, Egypt, and Lebanon have gone south in recent months. I know the POTUS has been sidling up to Syria, so we need to see how he manages that relationship. Will we help the dissidents THERE, or will we opt for "stability" assad style?

322 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:38:52pm

This is a great story. Gay Marine's husband shown complete respect at his military funeral:[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

323 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:39:08pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

you really have to feel for those people...it's a wonder they have survived in the world this long surrounded by intolerant people that hate them because they are Christian

325 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:40:22pm

Guess we should have kept Saddam in place.

//

326 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:40:28pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

Coptic Christians See a Safer Egypt With Mubarak at Helm

Wow, that was a colossally stupid move. Way to go, Mr. Popeypants.

327 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:40:47pm

re: #319 Decatur Deb

The Coptic Pope just made a serious bet, with his flock's butts on the table.

I was thinking that too. If Mubarak bails out it would be easy for the Muslim Brotherhood to paint the coptic church and Christians as enemies of the revolution. I imagine the decision to publicly support Mubarak was made with that in mind. I think it's an indication of how seriously they fear the Muslim Brotherhood.

328 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:41:53pm

Apparently google has created a way for the Egyptian people to continue tweeting through the use of a voice mail application that converts voices to tweets. I sure hope the Iranian dissidents are similarly hooked up.

329 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:42:37pm

re: #323 albusteve

you really have to feel for those people...it's a wonder they have survived in the world this long surrounded by intolerant people that hate them because they are Christian

The Israelis can relate ...

330 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:43:13pm

re: #325 Gus 802

Guess we should have kept Saddam in place.

//

Yes, you should have.

331 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:44:02pm

re: #330 Sergey Romanov

Yes, you should have.

nah, he had to go...and his boys

332 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:44:26pm

re: #331 albusteve

nah, he had to go...and his boys

Not for the price Iraqis paid.

333 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:44:53pm

re: #330 Sergey Romanov

Yes, you should have.

I'm ambivalent. Especially considering that it's water under the bridge at this point. Iraq seems to be doing OK for the time being.

334 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:45:12pm

re: #329 _RememberTonyC

The Israelis can relate ...

no shit...and some here say that this revolution is not any affair of Israel

335 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:45:50pm

re: #333 Gus 802

Those who did not die now live in a democracy. Islamic democracy. (Is there such a thing? I guess.)

336 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:46:08pm

re: #331 albusteve

nah, he had to go...and his boys

That was the duty of the Iraqis. People are responsible for the government they endure. Keyword: Dresden.

337 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:46:33pm

re: #332 Sergey Romanov

Not for the price Iraqis paid.

freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Muslims can be to each other

338 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:47:29pm

re: #337 albusteve

freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Muslims can be to each other

Fucking a broad hateful brush.

339 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:47:38pm

re: #336 Decatur Deb

That was the duty of the Iraqis. People are responsible for the government they endure. Keyword: Dresden.

how could the people take down Hussein?...literally impossible

340 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:47:45pm

re: #277 Gus 802

Yeah, pretty much. They all act as though they deserve to be respected because it's made up of veterans. One of their dimwit members sent me some stupid Tweet the other day about me being "another Kosling".

Lol, yeah I've had my fill of guys like that

341 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:47:45pm

re: #337 albusteve

freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Muslims can be to each other

I agree some people are bloodthirsty.

342 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:47:46pm

re: #333 Gus 802

I'm ambivalent. Especially considering that it's water under the bridge at this point. Iraq seems to be doing OK for the time being.

We bet the ranch on them. And in order to win the bet, we can't abandon them too abruptly. They seem to be on their way, but with iran as a neighbor, we need them to succeed so maybe iran's people will learn how to do it better.

One can hope ... Right?

343 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:48:11pm

re: #335 Sergey Romanov

Curious, can you name an Islamic democracy?
I can't.

344 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:48:36pm

re: #343 Floral Giraffe

Curious, can you name an Islamic democracy?
I can't.

Iraq!!11

/

345 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:48:53pm

re: #344 Sergey Romanov

Iraq!!11

/

I was gonna say that!
:P

346 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:48:54pm

re: #338 Stanley Sea

Fucking a broad hateful brush.

fucking a truth...oh, some Muslims are heartless, excuse me

347 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:49:42pm

re: #343 Floral Giraffe

Curious, can you name an Islamic democracy?
I can't.

Indonesia?

348 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:49:49pm

re: #345 Varek Raith

I was gonna say that!
:P

No cookie for ya :D

349 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:50:12pm

re: #344 Sergey Romanov

Seriously.
Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Pakistran,

I am trying, but failing.

350 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:50:18pm

re: #339 albusteve

how could the people take down Hussein?...literally impossible

Every tyrant bets on that. Many would have died, but fewer.

351 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:50:23pm

re: #346 albusteve

fucking a truth...oh, some Muslims are heartless, excuse me

Some Americans too.

352 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:50:36pm

re: #335 Sergey Romanov

Those who did not die now live in a democracy. Islamic democracy. (Is there such a thing? I guess.)

The good news is that Moqtada al-Sadr is out of Iraq, again.

353 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:50:37pm

re: #341 Sergey Romanov

I agree some people are bloodthirsty.

beyond comprehension...thinking the Taliban, just not human by most standards

354 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:50:52pm

re: #349 Floral Giraffe

That's the point.

355 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:51:02pm

re: #337 albusteve

freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Muslims can be to each other

You may not like what he said, but its well known that much of the violence in Iraq was done in muslim on Muslim attacks. And the Iran/Iraq war had a large element of religion as well. Over a million dead in a ten year slog. It ain't PC to say it, but there is much evidence to suggest that there is some truth in his statement.

356 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:51:41pm

Media Observers Report Rare Sighting Of Non-Egypt-Based News Report

rumors other events transpiring on surface of planet

357 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:51:59pm

re: #353 albusteve

They are human, it's just that their experience is VERY different than yours.

358 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:53:30pm

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

You may not like what he said, but its well known that much of the violence in Iraq was done in muslim on Muslim attacks.

Which everybody with even half a brain knew would happen. Which is exactly why you should have kept Saddam in place.

359 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:54:25pm

re: #350 Decatur Deb

Every tyrant bets on that. Many would have died, but fewer.

but I asked how...the guy was virtually impregnable, doubles and constantly on the move, ruthless killers for bodyguards etc....you're suggesting the people could find the weapons, make a grand plan, trap Hussein and kill him?....how? he had spies everywhere, people were frozen in terms of movement and information....you are dreaming

360 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:55:15pm

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Best thing I can do now while thinking about Egypt's future is cross my fingers.

361 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:55:19pm

re: #357 Floral Giraffe

They are human, it's just that their experience is VERY different than yours.

Our vision is very much bound to here-and-now. By any statistical measure modern Americans, and most of Europe, are a bizarre anomaly.

362 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:55:28pm

re: #358 Sergey Romanov

Hind sight is ALWAYS 20-20.
I disagree, that Sadam should have been left in place.

363 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:55:38pm

re: #352 Gus 802

The good news is that Moqtada al-Sadr is out of Iraq, again.

they should have killed him when they had the chance...he is toxic, a natural born killer

364 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:56:13pm

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

Some Americans too.

some Brazilians too

365 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:56:17pm

re: #362 Floral Giraffe

Hind sight is ALWAYS 20-20.
I disagree, that Sadam should have been left in place.

You disagree even with hindsight and that's something. At least 100,000 dead Iraqis just don't count.

366 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:56:39pm

re: #364 albusteve

some Brazilians too

How prescient of you.

367 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:56:53pm

re: #356 engineer dog

Media Observers Report Rare Sighting Of Non-Egypt-Based News Report

rumors other events transpiring on surface of planet

Snowmageddon!
Snowbal Warming!
Snowzilla!
Snowpocalypse!

(brought to you by Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, and Bridgestone)

368 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:56:57pm

re: #364 albusteve

some Brazilians too

Let's invade.

369 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:57:12pm

re: #361 Decatur Deb

I feel very blessed and grateful to be living in the world that I live in.

370 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:57:23pm

re: #349 Floral Giraffe

Seriously.
Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Pakistran,

I am trying, but failing.

Maldives, Turkey, Phillipines (mix of Christian and Islam in power) Mali

371 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:57:57pm

I call on Code Pink to form the new government of Egypt.

372 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:58:31pm

re: #368 Varek Raith

Let's invade.

All your girls from Ipanema are belong to us!

//

373 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:58:36pm

re: #365 Sergey Romanov

No, they count. Their lives might or might not have been different, had we not deposed Sadam.

374 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:58:47pm

re: #335 Sergey Romanov

Those who did not die now live in a democracy. Islamic democracy. (Is there such a thing? I guess.)

Don't forget about the millions that fled the country.

375 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:18pm

re: #372 Gus 802

All your girls from Ipanema are belong to us!

//

Was I that obvious about the reason for invasion?
/

376 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:21pm

re: #373 Floral Giraffe

They're fucking dead. They wouldn't have been dead. I'm done with this topic.

377 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:25pm

re: #371 Ojoe

I call on Code Pink to form the new government of Egypt.

Ojoe, I'm not yanking your chain--what's new with the Whigs? They should be making max preparations for 2012.

378 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:28pm

re: #365 Sergey Romanov

You disagree even with hindsight and that's something. At least 100,000 dead Iraqis just don't count.

Trade-offs. How many would have died because of him had he stayed in power?

379 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:31pm

re: #358 Sergey Romanov

Which everybody with even half a brain knew would happen. Which is exactly why you should have kept Saddam in place.

When I heard Bush talking about "liberating" Iraq, I cringed. You can't just create a moderate secular state like you are planting a tree. Er... actually that's the perfect metaphor for it. The environment has to be right for it, or it won't work.

Toppling a state necessitates that there be a willingness to build a new state from the ground up afterward, or face utter chaos. It's not like there isn't an assload of historical precedent. It's not like it wasn't incredibly obvious to anyone with half a brain that you can't just dissolve a state and expect everything to magically work itself out.

I have never screamed at a television so much as I did during the early years of the Iraq war. You know, the one Rumsfeld said would last "months, not years".

380 tradewind  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:39pm

re: #271 Winny Spencer

Umm, no. Good riddance to the torturer and his sons.
But it might very well be a better, or at least more secure, place had Carter not given the Shah his last shove......
Yeah, I know. He was repressive and oh-so-bad, with his secret police.
OTOH, he wasn't plotting to nuke half the world while waiting for the hidden imam to leap out of some well and usher in the new holocaust, while remaining a puppet of the mad mullahs whose favorite novel is They Stone Women, Don't They.

381 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:54pm

re: #358 Sergey Romanov

Which everybody with even half a brain knew would happen. Which is exactly why you should have kept Saddam in place.

20/20 hindsight is never wrong. The whole world believed saddam had WMDs ... And I think he did, but had lots of time to send them to syria. And there were 17 or 18 resolutions by your precious UN that he defied. Bush gambled on the potential of Iraqis to transform the region through self governance. He gave them a chance. I hope President Obama tries to also help legitimate dissidents and not the bad actors.

382 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 4:59:58pm

re: #346 albusteve

fucking a truth...oh, some Muslims are heartless, excuse me

as opposed to some other major subdivision of the human species that you have in mind that can claim to have never committed atrocities?

383 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:00:11pm

For you Californians and others interested...

Gov. Edmund G. Brown Jr.'s 2011 State of the State Address

Live feed.

384 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:00:41pm

re: #379 Fozzie Bear

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

385 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:01:07pm

re: #376 Sergey Romanov

good idea

386 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:01:23pm

re: #367 Alouette

Snowmageddon!
Snowbal Warming!
Snowzilla!
Snowpocalypse!

(brought to you by Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, and Bridgestone)

my favorite is:

Monster storm in heartland heads east

swarms of frankensteins and godzillas flying through the air?

387 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:01:44pm

re: #377 Decatur Deb

I think I'm the only Whig in my county. I'll see what I can find out.

388 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:01:50pm

re: #372 Gus 802

All your girls from Ipanema are belong to us!

//

hit the beach!....will have a whole new meaning

389 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:02:15pm

re: #384 Varek Raith

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

I worked a couple layers under him--that was the smartest thing he ever said.

390 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:02:22pm

re: #384 Varek Raith

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

How the entire country didn't realize at that moment that they had elected idiots to run their country will forever elude me.

391 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:02:39pm

re: #386 engineer dog

my favorite is:

Monster storm in heartland heads east

swarms of frankensteins and godzillas flying through the air?

Or as we're calling it around here - 'This week's Storm of the Century.' /

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:02:50pm

re: #276 brookly red

well first I would stop listing to people like you... consider that done. Then I would as president make it clear that we would support our allies, by any means necessary.

Who, in this case, are our allies?

393 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:02:52pm

re: #379 Fozzie Bear

When I heard Bush talking about "liberating" Iraq, I cringed. You can't just create a moderate secular state like you are planting a tree. Er... actually that's the perfect metaphor for it. The environment has to be right for it, or it won't work.

Toppling a state necessitates that there be a willingness to build a new state from the ground up afterward, or face utter chaos. It's not like there isn't an assload of historical precedent. It's not like it wasn't incredibly obvious to anyone with half a brain that you can't just dissolve a state and expect everything to magically work itself out.

I have never screamed at a television so much as I did during the early years of the Iraq war. You know, the one Rumsfeld said would last "months, not years".

NATION BUILDING!

394 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:02:54pm

re: #386 engineer dog

my favorite is:

Monster storm in heartland heads east

swarms of frankensteins and godzillas flying through the air?

Freaking Mothra and Ghidorah.

395 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:04:13pm

re: #382 engineer dog

as opposed to some other major subdivision of the human species that you have in mind that can claim to have never committed atrocities?

heh...stick to the subject?...or do you need to drag Colombian drug lords into the equation?

396 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:04:14pm

re: #393 Stanley Sea

NATION BUILDING!

Clearly we must now invade Egypt.

//

397 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:04:16pm

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

You may not like what he said, but its well known that much of the violence in Iraq was done in muslim on Muslim attacks. And the Iran/Iraq war had a large element of religion as well. Over a million dead in a ten year slog. It ain't PC to say it, but there is much evidence to suggest that there is some truth in his statement.

Ireland. WW1. WW2. The Balkans. Stalin. The Seven Years War. The 100 Years War.

No precedence in the West!

Nope. None at all.

398 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:04:37pm

re: #362 Floral Giraffe

Hind sight is ALWAYS 20-20.
I disagree, that Sadam should have been left in place.

Most Americans think the invasion was a mistake. There is quite a bit of disagreement among Iraqis themselves (among those not dead and those who didn't flee the country). It damaged our standing among hundreds of millions of moderate Muslims. It damaged our standing among most of the Western World.

But the original question was whether it is in our best interest to use force to interfere in other countries' internal affairs.

Trillions of dollars spent when the national debt is an issue of paramount importance to many Americans? For what gain that was in our best interest?

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:05:07pm

re: #293 Alaska Kim

doesn't seem to matter what Sarah knows or doesn't know... everything is her fault. it's automatic.

Darlin', no one had mentioned Sarah Palin in connection with Egypt until you came along.

I will go on record as saying that it is not Sarah Palin's fault that Egypt is a mess, if that will make you happy.

400 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:05:30pm

re: #383 Gus 802

For you Californians and others interested...

Gov. Edmund G. Brown Jr.'s 2011 State of the State Address

Live feed.

should be interesting when he unveils his plan to save CA....seeing as he was a major player driving CA toward where they are now...LOL

401 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:06:04pm

re: #400 albusteve

should be interesting when he unveils his plan to save CA...seeing as he was a major player driving CA toward where they are now...LOL

Steady now.

402 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:06:15pm

re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist

Darlin', no one had mentioned Sarah Palin in connection with Egypt until you came along.

I will go on record as saying that it is not Sarah Palin's fault that Egypt is a mess, if that will make you happy.

Second.

Call for a vote or open it up for discussion?

403 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:06:28pm

re: #397 austin_blue

Ireland. WW1. WW2. The Balkans. Stalin. The Seven Years War. The 100 Years War.

No precedence in the West!

Nope. None at all.

Dude ... Who gives a fuck about wars that are over? Pay attention to the here and now.

404 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:06:37pm

re: #400 albusteve

should be interesting when he unveils his plan to save CA...seeing as he was a major player driving CA toward where they are now...LOL

How so, Steve? Please be very specific.

405 tradewind  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:06:58pm

re: #391 makeitstop
Weather vs the ME in:
The Hyper Bowl.

406 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:07:05pm

re: #377 Decatur Deb

The new website for the Whig Party is up:
New, searchable Whig Party web site:

407 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:07:21pm

re: #403 _RememberTonyC

That's a kind of weird attitude. We really should care about wars of the past, if nothing else than for those that gave their lives to fight them.

408 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:07:31pm

re: #398 Talking Point Detective

And Israel is less secure because of it. We don't have will or resources to project to another front.

409 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:07:39pm

re: #402 austin_blue

Second.

Call for a vote or open it up for discussion?

I think it is her fault so I vote no.

410 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:07:52pm

re: #403 _RememberTonyC

Dude ... Who gives a fuck about wars that are over? Pay attention to the here and now.

You can't learn without memory.

411 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:08:35pm

re: #398 Talking Point Detective

You can't go back, once action has been taken.
It doesn't matter what people think today.
The actions can not be undone.
You have to deal with what the situation is now.

412 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:08:43pm

re: #403 _RememberTonyC

Dude ... Who gives a fuck about wars that are over? Pay attention to the here and now.

"Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it."

Sage advice, and not from me.

413 tradewind  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:09:11pm

re: #398 Talking Point Detective

Most Americans think the invasion was a mistake.


Depends upon which particular group of Most Americans you ask.

414 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:09:23pm

"History never repeats, but it does rhyme." - Mark Twain

415 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:09:28pm

re: #337 albusteve

freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Muslims can be to each other

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

You may not like what he said, but its well known that much of the violence in Iraq was done in muslim on Muslim attacks. And the Iran/Iraq war had a large element of religion as well. Over a million dead in a ten year slog. It ain't PC to say it, but there is much evidence to suggest that there is some truth in his statement.

Seriously? How about how heartless human beings can be to each other, period? The U.S. Civil War, the Inquisition, the world wars, ethnic cleansing, etc. They may not ALL have been religious, but there was still plenty of blood shed by people of similar ethnicity.

//But maybe it's not PC to point that out.

416 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:09:36pm

re: #327 Killgore Trout

I was thinking that too. If Mubarak bails out it would be easy for the Muslim Brotherhood to paint the coptic church and Christians as enemies of the revolution. I imagine the decision to publicly support Mubarak was made with that in mind. I think it's an indication of how seriously they fear the Muslim Brotherhood.

It's been bad enough for the Christian community as is. If the MB comes to power, they're gonna be in a bad place.

417 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:10:08pm

re: #396 Gus 802

Clearly we must now invade Egypt.

//

just think of the money to be made!
Pharaoh Wheels!
Luxor Casino and Hotel!
Nile Adventure Water Park!
Raiders of the Lost Tombs Tours!

418 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:10:09pm

re: #406 Ojoe

There's no such thing as 'clean coal'. It's a marketing term from the coal industry. You might want to let the Whig Party know that.

419 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:10:12pm

re: #403 _RememberTonyC

"Those who can not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:10:15pm

re: #337 albusteve

freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Muslims can be to each other

As opposed to any other religious group out there?

421 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:10:16pm

re: #415 CuriousLurker

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

Seriously? How about how heartless human beings can be to each other, period? The U.S. Civil War, the Inquisition, the world wars, ethnic cleansing, etc. They may not ALL have been religious, but there was still plenty of blood shed by people of similar ethnicity.

//But maybe it's not PC to point that out.

The Crusades were all just a misunderstanding.
/

422 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:10:46pm

re: #403 _RememberTonyC

Dude ... Who gives a fuck about wars that are over? Pay attention to the here and now.

Ah, okay. The past doesn't count.

423 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:11:10pm

re: #401 Gus 802

Steady now.

yeah...good idea

424 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:11:14pm

re: #418 Obdicut

There's no such thing as 'clean coal'. It's a marketing term from the coal industry. You might want to let the Whig Party know that.

Clean coal comes from clean mud.
/

425 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:11:24pm

re: #418 Obdicut

OK.

426 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:11:31pm

re: #419 Floral Giraffe

"Those who can not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

apparantly the rest of us are doomed to repeat it along with them, too

427 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:11:54pm

re: #425 Ojoe

OK.

Seriously though, clean coal is an oxymoron.

428 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:12:13pm

re: #413 tradewind

Depends upon which particular group of Most Americans you ask.

Polls of Americans - that would be a representative sample - indicate that a majority think the invasion was a mistake.

429 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:12:19pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist

It's been bad enough for the Christian community as is. If the MB comes to power, they're gonna be in a bad place.

The Army is the key in this. They are all that stands between Order and Chaos.

430 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:12:21pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist

There are about 8 million Coptics in Egypt too.

431 Stanghazi  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:12:23pm

re: #397 austin_blue

Ireland. WW1. WW2. The Balkans. Stalin. The Seven Years War. The 100 Years War.

No precedence in the West!

Nope. None at all.

The fricken CIVIL WAR.

432 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:12:31pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

As opposed to any other religious group out there?

no, I'm sticking to the ME as the background of the convo

433 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:13:00pm

re: #343 Floral Giraffe

Curious, can you name an Islamic democracy?
I can't.

Indonesia is working on it.

434 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:13:18pm

re: #424 Varek Raith

Clean coal comes from clean mud.
/

The Alberta Tar sands can be viewed as a great way to turn Natural Gas and clean water into pollution and oil...

435 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:13:25pm

re: #413 tradewind

re: #428 Talking Point Detective

Depends upon which particular group of Most Americans you ask.

And no doubt, the positive numbers would be even lower if the question was whether the invasion was in our interest.

436 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:13:28pm

BBL

437 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:13:29pm

re: #422 CuriousLurker

Ah, okay. The past doesn't count.

only for intellectual purposes...express yourself!

438 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:13:50pm

re: #433 SanFranciscoZionist

Indonesia is working on it.

Turkey

439 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:14:09pm

re: #267 prononymous

So, brookly what is the next step?

I see you are very good at sitting back and criticizing the ideas/actions of others and making squishy non-committal answers and dodges to complex questions.

But where is the meat? How do you think we should handle this?

One thing to keep in mind is that we can't much handle this. It's an avalanche. All you can do is get out of the way and make yourself an air pocket if you're caught.

What would be nice if it were to happen? It would be nice if the Egyptian Army stepped in and declared that elections were going to be held in 3 months, 6 months, something visibly near term but not so soon as to close off any chance of a new, middle-ground party organizing and then campaigning.

Super nice if they made good on that promise and the good guys won. If the bad guys are going to win no matter how well the case is put before the Egyptian people, then there will be suffering all around, most particularly among the Egyptians.

But we can't MAKE them choose wisely or well.

440 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:14:13pm

re: #434 McSpiff

The Alberta Tar sands can be viewed as a great way to turn Natural Gas and clean water into pollution and oil...

A monstrous waste of resources. We should be ashamed.

441 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:14:28pm

re: #433 SanFranciscoZionist

Indonesia is working on it.

Turkey comes close, but hasn't weaned itself from periodic military intervention. They really try.

442 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:14:42pm

re: #428 Talking Point Detective

Polls of Americans - that would be a representative sample - indicate that a majority think the invasion was a mistake.

who the hell would trust an American to know their ass from a hole in the ground?....not me

443 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:14:54pm

re: #411 Floral Giraffe

You can't go back, once action has been taken.
It doesn't matter what people think today.
The actions can not be undone.
You have to deal with what the situation is now.

Sure - but again, the question was whether or not using force to interfere in other countries' internal affairs is in our interest. This isn't just a question that relates to the invasion of Iraq. It remains relevant.

444 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:15:12pm

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

You may not like what he said, but its well known that much of the violence in Iraq was done in muslim on Muslim attacks. And the Iran/Iraq war had a large element of religion as well. Over a million dead in a ten year slog. It ain't PC to say it, but there is much evidence to suggest that there is some truth in his statement.

Only if you carefully block out all memory of what shit went down in the course of the twentieth century and the last decade outside the Muslim world.

Fuck PC--suggesting that Muslims are especially bloodthirsty as compared to the general run of humanity isn't offensive, it's just rather lacking in any proof.

Pol Pot made the Taliban look like pikers.

445 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:15:31pm

re: #440 Fozzie Bear

A monstrous waste of resources. We should be ashamed.

Yup, once you get down to the nitty gritty its really a nice demonstration of the American thirst for oil above all else. Sorry if that comes across as disparaging to anyone here, but I have no idea how else to express it.

446 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:16:03pm

re: #371 Ojoe

I call on Code Pink to form the new government of Egypt.

I don't even want to THINK about what Medea would wear to do that.

447 tradewind  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:16:27pm

re: #427 Varek Raith
In the mode of
Safe nuclear power
Cheap crude
Efficient, trouble-free wind farms, and of course,
Solar shingles for everyone!!

448 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:16:34pm

re: #434 McSpiff

The Alberta Tar sands can be viewed as a great way to turn Natural Gas and clean water into pollution and oil...

heh...but it will support your blogging habits....after all where would any of us be without dirty energy?

449 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:16:51pm

How is everyone this evening?

450 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:17:09pm

re: #442 albusteve

who the hell would trust an American to know their ass from a hole in the ground?...not me

Well - I disagree; but the question was about public opinion among Americans as a whole.

451 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:17:24pm

re: #449 ggt

How is everyone this evening?

STFU

452 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:17:28pm

re: #439 lostlakehiker

One thing to keep in mind is that we can't much handle this. It's an avalanche. All you can do is get out of the way and make yourself an air pocket if you're caught.

What would be nice if it were to happen? It would be nice if the Egyptian Army stepped in and declared that elections were going to be held in 3 months, 6 months, something visibly near term but not so soon as to close off any chance of a new, middle-ground party organizing and then campaigning.

Super nice if they made good on that promise and the good guys won. If the bad guys are going to win no matter how well the case is put before the Egyptian people, then there will be suffering all around, most particularly among the Egyptians.

But we can't MAKE them choose wisely or well.

Well said.

(stares at right index finger)

I just updinged LLH...

453 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:17:34pm

re: #447 tradewind

In the mode of
Safe nuclear power
Cheap crude
Efficient, trouble-free wind farms, and of course,
Solar shingles for everyone!!

Fixed that for you.

454 tradewind  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:17:40pm

re: #438 Gus 802
Yeah, there's an perfect example of What's In a Name.

455 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:17:54pm

re: #451 Decatur Deb

STFU

That good?

456 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:18:00pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

Only if you carefully block out all memory of what shit went down in the course of the twentieth century and the last decade outside the Muslim world.

Fuck PC--suggesting that Muslims are especially bloodthirsty as compared to the general run of humanity isn't offensive, it's just rather lacking in any proof.

Pol Pot made the Taliban look like pikers.

not sure, but if I were smart I'd debate that...Pot scored big with the numbers, but I'd be hard pressed to think he would burn children alive

457 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:18:19pm

re: #418 Obdicut

There's no such thing as 'clean coal'. It's a marketing term from the coal industry. You might want to let the Whig Party know that.

Technically false, but effectively true. Hypothetically, if somebody were to burn coal and then sequester the resulting CO2 deep inside stable rock, it'd be clean coal.

Talk of doing just that seems to be mostly just talk. The point of that empty talk is to dangle the hope that some day soon, coal will be "clean" in that sense, and so we don't have to urgently get cracking on wind, solar, and nuclear.

The president mentioned clean coal in his state of the union speech. A nod to coal states, I reckon, dangling before them the hope that his administration will pretend along with the coal companies that this can be done, and issue waiver after waiver pending the never-to-come day when sequestration becomes economically feasible.

458 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:18:39pm

re: #445 McSpiff

Yup, once you get down to the nitty gritty its really a nice demonstration of the American thirst for oil above all else. Sorry if that comes across as disparaging to anyone here, but I have no idea how else to express it.

I think focusing on oil only opens up to the "Haliburton" conservative meme. It was about American hegemony. This was the stated goal of major policy advisors to the Bush administration - well before 9/11.

459 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:18:42pm

re: #446 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't even want to THINK about what Medea would wear to do that.

Pink.

460 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:18:48pm

re: #455 ggt

That good?

SILENCE!

461 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:18:54pm

re: #455 ggt

That good?

Girl Scout leaders have been tossing F-Bombs.

462 tradewind  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:19:34pm

re: #449 ggt
Fine, thanks..... and hopeful now that another yet court has nudged Obamacare that much closer to the SCOTUS.

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:19:53pm

re: #403 _RememberTonyC

Dude ... Who gives a fuck about wars that are over? Pay attention to the here and now.

That's ridiculous. History is context.

If I knew that the history of most of the rest of the world in, say, my lifetime, had been largely unmarked by bloody fratricidal warfare, atrocity, and downright horror, then I would look at the Muslim world and say "something is seriously the fuck wrong with those people. Maybe it's Islam."

However, I have reason to suspect that something is seriously the fuck wrong with those people, and it's being homo sapiens sapiens.

464 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:19:58pm

re: #443 Talking Point Detective

Sure - but again, the question was whether or not using force to interfere in other countries' internal affairs is in our interest. This isn't just a question that relates to the invasion of Iraq. It remains relevant.

and it always will be relevant...someday down the road we will probably invade someone else...I'd vote for Jamaica in a heartbeat

465 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:20:09pm

re: #461 Decatur Deb

Girl Scout leaders have been tossing F-Bombs.

I'm not a Girl Scout Leader.

466 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:20:33pm

re: #453 Obdicut

In the mode of
Safe nuclear power
Cheap crude
Efficient, trouble-free wind farms, and of course,
Solar shingles for everyone!!

Fixed that for you.

Fixed some more.

467 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:20:48pm

re: #409 Jadespring

I think it is her fault so I vote no.

Jadespring moves that Sarah Palin is in fact to blame for the situation on the ground in Egypt. Would the gentle member from the Great White North care to elaborate?

468 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:20:51pm

re: #457 lostlakehiker

Nah, technically true, too. There is, currently, no such thing as clean coal. There might, at some point, be, but it would be so incredibly inefficient (when you factor in the energy cost of sequestration & mining) that it would be extremely difficult to achieve.

Other than that, yeah, right on.

469 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:21:03pm

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

Only if you carefully block out all memory of what shit went down in the course of the twentieth century and the last decade outside the Muslim world.

Fuck PC--suggesting that Muslims are especially bloodthirsty as compared to the general run of humanity isn't offensive, it's just rather lacking in any proof.

Pol Pot made the Taliban look like pikers.

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

470 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:21:09pm

re: #445 McSpiff

Yup, once you get down to the nitty gritty its really a nice demonstration of the American thirst for oil above all else. Sorry if that comes across as disparaging to anyone here, but I have no idea how else to express it.

So true. Not to mention the fact that we are going to need those hydrocarbons for other things like plastics and specialized fuels for a long time to come. It's lunacy to blow it all on commuting, given the long term resource situation. The are soooo many reasons why oil is hurting us, and we REFUSE to even take seriously the implications of our refusal to do something serious about it.

This is going to fuck us, and keep fucking us for a long, long time. It will still be fucking us long after we have stopped using oil.

472 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:21:51pm

re: #466 000G

Fixed that for you.

Fixed some more.

Safe nuclear power is totally possible. I mean, perfectly safe? No. Safer than coal mining? Sure as hell.

473 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:22:01pm

re: #421 Varek Raith

The Crusades were all just a misunderstanding.
/

Nonoptional war of survival against the Islamic horde.

//Not kidding. Have argued with this idea on this site.

474 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:22:14pm

re: #464 albusteve

and it always will be relevant...someday down the road we will probably invade someone else...I'd vote for Jamaica in a heartbeat

You can hold off. It will be legal in a number of states before too long.

475 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:22:29pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

Not this shit again.

476 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:22:45pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

What on earth are you talking about?

477 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:22:51pm

re: #458 Talking Point Detective

I think focusing on oil only opens up to the "Haliburton" conservative meme. It was about American hegemony. This was the stated goal of major policy advisors to the Bush administration - well before 9/11.

Sorry, wasn't trying to make a statement beyond North America with that comment. I think if the American industrial engine was tuned better the water and natural gas being used in Canadian oil production would be used directly by the states. It would be better for both countries in my opinion.

Not looking into ME or Iraq war factors, although I can easily see why my comment would be interpreted that way.

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:23:13pm

re: #429 austin_blue

The Army is the key in this. They are all that stands between Order and Chaos.

Great. I've always wanted to realize--with Israel's ass being held to the fire--that the Egyptian Army was standing between Order and Chaos.

Really. I've dreamed of this moment. After this part, comes the part of the dream where the bloody hands come out of the walls, and start to tear at me.

479 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:23:52pm

re: #432 albusteve

no, I'm sticking to the ME as the background of the convo

That makes no sense, but OK.

480 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:24:00pm

re: #470 Fozzie Bear

So true. Not to mention the fact that we are going to need those hydrocarbons for other things like plastics and specialized fuels for a long time to come. It's lunacy to blow it all on commuting, given the long term resource situation. The are sooo many reasons why oil is hurting us, and we REFUSE to even take seriously the implications of our refusal to do something serious about it.

This is going to fuck us, and keep fucking us for a long, long time. It will still be fucking us long after we have stopped using oil.

I think Nantucket is the perfect location for a wind farm...it would serve the entire peninsula...hell of a good idea, way offshore like that

481 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:24:10pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

If you think the answer is irrelevant, why are you trying to keep score?

482 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:24:30pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

May I remind you of a little thing called the slave trade, which made a human sacrifice of millions upon millions of human beings?

483 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:24:31pm

re: #478 SanFranciscoZionist

Great. I've always wanted to realize--with Israel's ass being held to the fire--that the Egyptian Army was standing between Order and Chaos.

Really. I've dreamed of this moment. After this part, comes the part of the dream where the bloody hands come out of the walls, and start to tear at me.

This is when we see if the billions of dollars, countless military transfers and all the free training pay off...

484 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:24:40pm

re: #472 Obdicut

Safe nuclear power is totally possible. I mean, perfectly safe? No. Safer than coal mining? Sure as hell.

Heh. Define "safe". Are we talking AGW vs. MCA here?

485 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:24:42pm

re: #477 McSpiff

Fair enough.

486 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:25:16pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

I'm going for Aztecs for doing the most you can with what you've got. The Hummingbird and the Hawk gives a good description of the "Floral Wars".

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

487 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:25:32pm

re: #448 albusteve

heh...but it will support your blogging habits...after all where would any of us be without dirty energy?

Very little electricity is produced with oil, which is what we extract from tar sands. (Admittedly, a lot of coal is used for electricity generation, but it's easier to replace power plants. Electrical generation technologies are interchangeable and retrofittable. Not so much with vehicle fuels and engines.

The technological innovation we really REALLY need right now is much better batteries. If we can figure out how to store an electricity in more efficient ways than we do now, we will leap forward technologically as a culture. It's the focal point and the bottleneck of technological innovation now. We know how to do a LOT of really cool things that we can't put into practice yet because of that missing ingredient.

488 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:26:10pm

re: #474 Talking Point Detective

You can hold off. It will be legal in a number of states before too long.

I don't care about pot...I live in New Mexico, land of the eternal ghanja fix...I want to visit my property again someday without risking my life

489 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:26:26pm

re: #449 ggt

How is everyone this evening?

I'm really grumpy.

490 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:26:28pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

Wow, dude. You're an asshole. An inaccurate asshole.

491 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:26:51pm

re: #484 000G

Heh. Define "safe". Are we talking AGW vs. MCA here?

Nope. We're talking about reactor designs that can't go critical.

492 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:27:51pm

re: #491 Obdicut

Nope. We're talking about reactor designs that can't go critical.

A pretty key thing to look for if we are going to be relying more heavily on nuclear energy. lol

493 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:28:31pm

re: #479 SanFranciscoZionist

That makes no sense, but OK.

why doesn't it?...the discussion was about Iraq, violent Muslims and the ME...pretty simple

494 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:28:35pm

re: #478 SanFranciscoZionist

Great. I've always wanted to realize--with Israel's ass being held to the fire--that the Egyptian Army was standing between Order and Chaos.

Really. I've dreamed of this moment. After this part, comes the part of the dream where the bloody hands come out of the walls, and start to tear at me.

Odd, isn't it, that that is what it has come to. The Turkish Army fills a similar role in maintaining Turkish secularism. It's one of the reasons the Isreali-Turkish relationship has been so strong vis-a-vis other Muslim countries in the ME. That's why I thought the attack on the flotilla (armed with hand-thrown missiles and iron bars !eleventy!) was so rock dumb.

495 Mr Pancakes  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:28:41pm

re: #451 Decatur Deb

STFU

Since when did you get all nice and wimpy DD?

496 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:28:52pm

re: #491 Obdicut

Nope. We're talking about reactor designs that can't go critical.

Mkay, I'll just buy that. Not that it answers how that is more safe than coal mining (what's the comparison standard here?), but okay.

What about the waste? Permanent repository is perfectly safe?

497 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:29:13pm

re: #487 Fozzie Bear

Very little electricity is produced with oil, which is what we extract from tar sands. (Admittedly, a lot of coal is used for electricity generation, but it's easier to replace power plants. Electrical generation technologies are interchangeable and retrofittable. Not so much with vehicle fuels and engines.

The technological innovation we really REALLY need right now is much better batteries. If we can figure out how to store an electricity in more efficient ways than we do now, we will leap forward technologically as a culture. It's the focal point and the bottleneck of technological innovation now. We know how to do a LOT of really cool things that we can't put into practice yet because of that missing ingredient.

I watched this show last week about batteries. There's apparently some tech out there that's really ahead of what we see now commercially available. Problem is some of it is held up in patents and the patent holders are being stingy.

498 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:30:20pm

re: #488 albusteve

I don't care about pot...I live in New Mexico, land of the eternal ghanja fix...I want to visit my property again someday without risking my life

OK - sorry. It didn't occur to me that you would justify launching an American military invasion of another sovereignty on your owning property there. Did you own property in Iraq also?

499 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:30:46pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

The comment was about Empires and States and what they've been responsible over the course of history, when at their worst.

500 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:30:53pm

re: #497 Jadespring

I watched this show last week about batteries. There's apparently some tech out there that's really ahead of what we see now commercially available. Problem is some of it is held up in patents and the patent holders are being stingy.

Nanotubes hold some promise, but they have the little problem of being ridiculously hard to produce in bulk.

501 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:30:57pm

re: #487 Fozzie Bear

Very little electricity is produced with oil, which is what we extract from tar sands. (Admittedly, a lot of coal is used for electricity generation, but it's easier to replace power plants. Electrical generation technologies are interchangeable and retrofittable. Not so much with vehicle fuels and engines.

The technological innovation we really REALLY need right now is much better batteries. If we can figure out how to store an electricity in more efficient ways than we do now, we will leap forward technologically as a culture. It's the focal point and the bottleneck of technological innovation now. We know how to do a LOT of really cool things that we can't put into practice yet because of that missing ingredient.

Magnets are the future!

:)

502 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:31:32pm

re: #489 Jadespring

I'm really grumpy.

I noticed, and the snow isn't even here yet.

503 McSpiff  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:31:39pm

re: #500 Fozzie Bear

Nanotubes hold some promise, but they have the little problem of being ridiculously hard to produce in bulk.

There's some very cool things being done with lithium

504 BishopX  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:31:54pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

Really....really....have you never ever studied fucking European history?

Do the words "witch-hunt", "kill them all and let God sort them out", "no one expects the Spanish inquisition" or "Dracula" mean anything to you? And those are only some of the atrocities committed directly in the name of Christianity....If we include things that happened because of religion...like thirty years war which killed 15-30 percent of the German population(up to 75 percent in some areas) it just gets worse. If we include the colonization of the new world in the list of christian endeavors it gets worse. European colonialists killed more than 90% of the population of the Americas, primarily through disease.

505 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:32:28pm

re: #496 000G

Mkay, I'll just buy that. Not that it answers how that is more safe than coal mining (what's the comparison standard here?), but okay.

What about the waste? Permanent repository is perfectly safe?

Space elevator and set the controls for the heart of the sun!! (obscure Pink Floyd reference)

Or concrete and steel caissons and recycle vis the Marianas Trench.

Crustal subduction is a fact. Like gravity and evolution.

506 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:32:31pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

What was on the belt buckle of the Nazi soldiers?

And do you acknowledge the millions upon millions killed in the slave trade-- and the even more millions who were enslaved and worked to death?

507 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:32:37pm

re: #496 000G

What about the waste? Permanent repository is perfectly safe?

The answer is these. Lots and lots of these:

What if we could build a nuclear reactor that offered no possibility of a meltdown, generated its power inexpensively, created no weapons-grade by-products, and burnt up existing high-level waste as well as old nuclear weapon stockpiles? And what if the waste produced by such a reactor was radioactive for a mere few hundred years rather than tens of thousands? It may sound too good to be true, but such a reactor is indeed possible, and a number of teams around the world are now working to make it a reality. What makes this incredible reactor so different is its fuel source: thorium.
508 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:33:04pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

That would be if one were to assume that there is an ideology of atheism that state "go out and kill the believers" or in this case something akin to "the infidels". There is no ideology of atheism that remotely states such a thing. There is no "text of atheism" that calls for its "followers" to do evil. Therefore it is a fallacy to state that atheism is what drove Stalin and Mao.

509 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:33:15pm

re: #487 Fozzie Bear

Very little electricity is produced with oil, which is what we extract from tar sands. (Admittedly, a lot of coal is used for electricity generation, but it's easier to replace power plants. Electrical generation technologies are interchangeable and retrofittable. Not so much with vehicle fuels and engines.

The technological innovation we really REALLY need right now is much better batteries. If we can figure out how to store an electricity in more efficient ways than we do now, we will leap forward technologically as a culture. It's the focal point and the bottleneck of technological innovation now. We know how to do a LOT of really cool things that we can't put into practice yet because of that missing ingredient.

ah, don't take my one line snarks too serious...regardless, I understand and agree with you...another missing ingredient, if I may, is political will to do the right thing...half or better of our energy problems, besides vast consumption, is the political aspect, which is why I keep hounding that GW/energy supplies is a national security issue and should be approached from that angle....but after 3 years, I don't have any back up at all

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:33:53pm

re: #456 albusteve

not sure, but if I were smart I'd debate that...Pot scored big with the numbers, but I'd be hard pressed to think he would burn children alive

I'm not much of an expert on the Khmer Rouge myself, so I can't really speak to that particular detail. I do know that at one of the camps they used pickaxes in mass executions, because it was too damn expensive to waste the bullets.

But are you seriously suggesting that the horror that's gone down in in Iraq or Afghanistan in the past several years is somehow unique in its horror in a way that surpasses Rwanda, the Congo, Cambodia, all of Latin America, Stalin, Hitler, and the ANC necklacing people?

What the hell am I missing?

511 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:33:53pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

Nazi Germany wasn't officially atheist. They got along great with the Catholic church (getting contracts with Rome done was one of Hitler's first achievements, Catholics in Germany remained pretty much apolitical for the most part from 1933 to 1945) and most of its voters were Protestants (some being very radical in their being religious and nazis, see German Christians).

Also, Aztec empire DID have a state religion.

512 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:34:03pm

re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist

Jadespring moves that Sarah Palin is in fact to blame for the situation on the ground in Egypt. Would the gentle member from the Great White North care to elaborate?

Hmm, well I just have this gut feeling that she is somehow.

It's also her fault that I spent almost two months waiting until I could afford to get my computer back and when I did it worked for 5 whole minutes before crashing again.

I'm just sure she had something to do with the repair not working....

///

513 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:34:23pm

re: #503 McSpiff

There's some very cool things being done with lithium

Psychopharm industry has helped thousands with it.

514 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:34:37pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

The comment was about Empires and States and what they've been responsible over the course of history, when at their worst.

you are incorrect in assuming that the nazi state was officially, or even unofficially, atheist

515 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:34:40pm

re: #491 Obdicut

Nope. We're talking about reactor designs that can't go critical.

wow, I missed that stuff...go for it
Hyperion in every house!

516 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:34:42pm

re: #459 austin_blue

Pink.

I'm evisioning a pink version of the Double Crown. Plus a pink pleated evening gown.

517 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:34:43pm

re: #496 000G

Mkay, I'll just buy that. Not that it answers how that is more safe than coal mining (what's the comparison standard here?), but okay.

What about the waste? Permanent repository is perfectly safe?

First of all, coal mining is really terrible. Coal dust is radioactive. Coal sludge is just a fucking nightmare. Coal smudge is terrible as fuck. All of those things come with a cost to lives, to quality of life, but also in causing death.

Reactors which consume their own output is ideal. I'm not saying we have these reactors ready to go right now, but that there aren't any known theoretical barriers to their existence, and some current designs are very promising.

518 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:35:15pm

An "extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey" tweets:

tuesday is the big day, pray for us guys we need your support #jan25

519 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:35:15pm

re: #502 ggt

I noticed, and the snow isn't even here yet.

I think the snow is going to miss me or at least the bulk of it might.

That's fine though we already have enough.

520 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:35:23pm

re: #504 BishopX

Really...really...have you never ever studied fucking European history?

Do the words "witch-hunt", "kill them all and let God sort them out", "no one expects the Spanish inquisition" or "Dracula" mean anything to you? And those are only some of the atrocities committed directly in the name of Christianity...If we include things that happened because of religion...like thirty years war which killed 15-30 percent of the German population(up to 75 percent in some areas) it just gets worse. If we include the colonization of the new world in the list of christian endeavors it gets worse. European colonialists killed more than 90% of the population of the Americas, primarily through disease.

Ah - sure, Christians slaughtered millions of "heathen" Native Americans - but you're not counting them as people, are you?

521 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:35:40pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

The comment was about Empires and States and what they've been responsible over the course of history, when at their worst.

Secular states are the only states that don't need to pick a side in the neverending wars between religions. They are the antidote to the madness that has consumed man for millenia. If the regime has an official religion or ideology, the chances of it making peace with it's neighbors goes down. History is packed full of examples too tedious to cite here.

522 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:36:04pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

re: #504 BishopX

re: #506 Obdicut

This is becoming an accounting problem.

523 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:36:34pm

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.
Adolf Hitler

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
Adolf Hitler

Who says I am not under the special protection of God?
Adolf Hitler

[Link: www.brainyquote.com...]

524 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:36:37pm

re: #518 000G

How very secular of him.

525 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:36:47pm

re: #516 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm evisioning a pink version of the Double Crown. Plus a pink pleated evening gown.

No, sorry, I meant that she is going to hollow out the actual singer, Pink, and wear her like a wet suit.

526 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:36:54pm

re: #522 Decatur Deb

re: #504 BishopX

re: #506 Obdicut

This is becoming an accounting problem.

It started out as an accounting problem, and someone was laying the bill down and declaring which way it got split.

527 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:36:54pm

re: #520 Talking Point Detective

Ah - sure, Christians slaughtered millions of "heathen" Native Americans - but you're not counting them as people, are you?

I was about to bring that up. And how many millions of Western Hemisphere Indians died under the sword by Europeans doing God's work? Countless millions.

528 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:37:08pm

re: #510 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not much of an expert on the Khmer Rouge myself, so I can't really speak to that particular detail. I do know that at one of the camps they used pickaxes in mass executions, because it was too damn expensive to waste the bullets.

But are you seriously suggesting that the horror that's gone down in in Iraq or Afghanistan in the past several years is somehow unique in its horror in a way that surpasses Rwanda, the Congo, Cambodia, all of Latin America, Stalin, Hitler, and the ANC necklacing people?

What the hell am I missing?

no...I'm suggesting that in my time, the Taliban win the cruelty prize...I'm dismissing anybody....Rwanda was pretty horrific too, probably runner up....I'm not looking for some argument, just posting what I think

529 Mr Pancakes  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:38:09pm

re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist

Jadespring moves that Sarah Palin is in fact to blame for the situation on the ground in Egypt. Would the gentle member from the Great White North care to elaborate?

"gentle member" is why they invented Viagra.

530 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:38:37pm

re: #527 Gus 802

I was about to bring that up. And how many millions of Western Hemisphere Indians died under the sword by Europeans doing God's work? Countless millions.

Roughly 20, within a wide, highly-politicized academic range.

531 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:39:30pm

re: #482 Obdicut

May I remind you of a little thing called the slave trade, which made a human sacrifice of millions upon millions of human beings?

And is slavery something unique to Christian and Muslim cultures? The Aztec Empire took a lot of slaves. The Soviets and the Maoists made their whole countries slave labor camps, with special lower circles of hell called gulags and laogai.

The fact that great evil was part of the story of Brazil, the U.S., and centuries before that, Iraq, does not catapult any of those societies to the top ranks of evil. It wasn't the only thing happening, and the good must be weighed mixed in with the bad.

Or do you put the U.S. at the top, as the most evil nation ever to have existed? Or maybe Brazil, or maybe Iraq? Or Portugal?

532 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:39:35pm

Nice to see that I'm still an atheist boogieman to some.
:P
/

533 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:39:53pm

re: #493 albusteve

why doesn't it?...the discussion was about Iraq, violent Muslims and the ME...pretty simple

So if we'd been having a general discussion the Civil War and someone had said, "freedom is bloody...it just proved how heartless Americans can be to each other" you'd have totally agreed without qualification, right? Just checking.

re: #456 albusteve

not sure, but if I were smart I'd debate that...Pot scored big with the numbers, but I'd be hard pressed to think he would burn children alive

Maybe not, but the South Vietnamese AF came pretty close in 1972.

Image: TrangBang.jpg

534 albusteve  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:39:56pm

re: #498 Talking Point Detective

OK - sorry. It didn't occur to me that you would justify launching an American military invasion of another sovereignty on your owning property there. Did you own property in Iraq also?

you have no clue dude...but you can be pretty entertaining....you don't seem to know when people are posting with hyperbole....relax and go with the flow....constantly seeking an argument will give you a rash LOL

535 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:40:06pm

re: #528 albusteve

no...I'm suggesting that in my time, the Taliban win the cruelty prize...I'm dismissing anybody...Rwanda was pretty horrific too, probably runner up...I'm not looking for some argument, just posting what I think

the not having an argument room is down the hall

536 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:40:30pm

re: #531 lostlakehiker

And is slavery something unique to Christian and Muslim cultures?

Point out where I made that claim, please?

Or do you put the U.S. at the top, as the most evil nation ever to have existed? Or maybe Brazil, or maybe Iraq? Or Portugal?

I don't find any merit in such idiotic attempts to rank evil.

537 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:40:30pm

re: #486 Decatur Deb

I'm going for Aztecs for doing the most you can with what you've got. The Hummingbird and the Hawk gives a good description of the "Floral Wars".

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

When I read descriptions of Aztec sacrificial practices, I am, for a moment, almost in sympathy with Cortez, as he processed all of that in horror.

Then I remember that back home for him was where they were burning relapsos alive at court gatherings, and I note that Hernando Cortez was a week bit of cultural relativist.

538 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:40:38pm

re: #532 Varek Raith

Nice to see that I'm still an atheist boogieman to some.
:P
/

Must be the midichlorians.

539 BishopX  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:41:13pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

The comment was about Empires and States and what they've been responsible over the course of history, when at their worst.

Again, you're ignoring the thirty years war. The area that is now Germany lost 15-30% of it's population, Brandenburg lost 50 percent... the swedish army razed 1/3 of the villages and towns in the germanies.

This entire conflict was perpetrated in the name of religion. It was primarily a dispute between the catholics and protestants in the Holy Roman Empire, which spiral out of control and ended up involving pretty much every European nation.

540 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:41:37pm

re: #532 Varek Raith

Nice to see that I'm still an atheist boogieman to some.
:P
/

It is times like these that I find comfort in the Book of Atheism. Turn to chapter 9, paragraph 12...

//

541 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:41:43pm

re: #537 SanFranciscoZionist

When I read descriptions of Aztec sacrificial practices, I am, for a moment, almost in sympathy with Cortez, as he processed all of that in horror.

Then I remember that back home for him was where they were burning relapsos alive at court gatherings, and I note that Hernando Cortez was a week bit of cultural relativist.

Hard to know who to root for on the "Noche Triste".

542 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:41:51pm

re: #518 000G

An "extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey" tweets:

Thanks for the update. I just checked his tweets and he hasn't mentioned the Muslim Brotherhood for better or worse. Too bad. I'd be very interested in hearing his opinion but I think I understand where he's coming from.

543 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:41:55pm

re: #534 albusteve

you have no clue dude...but you can be pretty entertaining...you don't seem to know when people are posting with hyperbole...relax and go with the flow...constantly seeking an argument will give you a rash LOL

The funny thing is, Steve, is that you don't recognize hyperbole when you see it.

544 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:42:56pm

re: #456 albusteve

not sure, but if I were smart I'd debate that...Pot scored big with the numbers, but I'd be hard pressed to think he would burn children alive

Pol Pot made Hitler look like a pussy. Stalin? Total pansy. Sure, he didn't kill as many, but holy shit was he evil about what he did do.

Pol Pot was incredibly twisted.

545 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:43:10pm

re: #504 BishopX

Really...really...have you never ever studied fucking European history?

Do the words "witch-hunt", "kill them all and let God sort them out", "no one expects the Spanish inquisition" or "Dracula" mean anything to you? And those are only some of the atrocities committed directly in the name of Christianity...If we include things that happened because of religion...like thirty years war which killed 15-30 percent of the German population(up to 75 percent in some areas) it just gets worse. If we include the colonization of the new world in the list of christian endeavors it gets worse. European colonialists killed more than 90% of the population of the Americas, primarily through disease.

Do you have any idea how few people were put to death by the Spanish Inquisition?

And can you seriously settle the blame for a biological accident which was beyond the comprehension of all the participants in the migration of Europeans to North and South America on their religion? Or on the people themselves?

Knowing what we now know about disease, things look very different from how they looked then. Before 1750, nobody really understood anything about infectious diseases.

546 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:43:28pm

re: #493 albusteve

why doesn't it?...the discussion was about Iraq, violent Muslims and the ME...pretty simple

I think that the point here is that as horrifying as what's been going on in Iraq is, it's pretty par for the civil war course.

Only point people are trying to make is that while these particular humans may be fighting in part over Islam, people will do this to each other for all kinds of reasons.

There's a character in one of Neil Gaiman's novels--a demon who was given an award for the Spanish Inquisition. What he's never told anyone is that he had nothing to do with it. He's realized over the years that tempting people is pretty much pointless. Humans will do shit to each other that demons couldn't even think of, and they'll do it without prompting.

547 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:43:30pm

re: #544 Fozzie Bear

Pol Pot is also where Chomsky jumped the shark.

548 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:43:41pm

re: #531 lostlakehiker

And is slavery something unique to Christian and Muslim cultures? The Aztec Empire took a lot of slaves. The Soviets and the Maoists made their whole countries slave labor camps, with special lower circles of hell called gulags and laogai.

The fact that great evil was part of the story of Brazil, the U.S., and centuries before that, Iraq, does not catapult any of those societies to the top ranks of evil. It wasn't the only thing happening, and the good must be weighed mixed in with the bad.

Or do you put the U.S. at the top, as the most evil nation ever to have existed? Or maybe Brazil, or maybe Iraq? Or Portugal?

Just curious as to why you keep bringing up the Aztecs as an example of atheists. Didn't they believe in something like 50 gods?

549 Kragar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:43:59pm

re: #540 Gus 802

It is times like these that I find comfort in the Book of Atheism. Turn to chapter 9, paragraph 12...

//

Oh, can we do some of the Hymns?

550 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:44:00pm

re: #523 engineer dog

[Link: www.brainyquote.com...]

Extremely poorly sourced. I would not use that to prove something. Some of it sounds like it came from Rauschning's Hitler m’a dit.

551 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:44:13pm

re: #548 Talking Point Detective

Just curious as to why you keep bringing up the Aztecs as an example of atheists. Didn't they believe in something like 50 gods?

Because he's grasping at straws.

552 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:44:28pm

re: #494 austin_blue

Odd, isn't it, that that is what it has come to. The Turkish Army fills a similar role in maintaining Turkish secularism. It's one of the reasons the Isreali-Turkish relationship has been so strong vis-a-vis other Muslim countries in the ME. That's why I thought the attack on the flotilla (armed with hand-thrown missiles and iron bars !eleventy!) was so rock dumb.

You could also say that allowing a bunch of armed thugs posing as peace activists to try to run a blockade by an ally was rock dumb.

553 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:44:33pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about

your mistake was to look at the actions of murderous fascist dictators and decide that the salient characteristic that you could use to describe them was "atheist"

554 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:45:35pm

re: #544 Fozzie Bear

Pol Pot made Hitler look like a pussy. Stalin? Total pansy. Sure, he didn't kill as many, but holy shit was he evil about what he did do.

Pol Pot was incredibly twisted.

My mass murderer is more evil than your mass murderer.

555 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:45:40pm

re: #550 000G

Extremely poorly sourced. I would not use that to prove something. Some of it sounds like it came from Rauschning's Hitler m’a dit.

maybe so, but hitler and the nazis were not atheists

atheism was not part of nazi ideology

556 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:45:58pm

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

The comment was about Empires and States and what they've been responsible over the course of history, when at their worst.

Defining Nazis as atheists is a bit tricky.

557 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:45:58pm

We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Dawkins

558 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:46:12pm

re: #545 lostlakehiker

Ah, so human sacrifice isn't as evil if you just sacrifice a small number of heretics for your religion?

559 Cankles McCellulite  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:46:22pm

re: #469 lostlakehiker

Pagan religions are not primitive any more than non pagan religions are civilized.
I do not see much difference between a religion who killed to satisfy their god's insatiable appetite for human blood and one who killed a lot to satisfy there god's insatiable appetite for human souls.

560 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:46:32pm

re: #539 BishopX

Again, you're ignoring the thirty years war. The area that is now Germany lost 15-30% of it's population, Brandenburg lost 50 percent... the swedish army razed 1/3 of the villages and towns in the germanies.

This entire conflict was perpetrated in the name of religion. It was primarily a dispute between the catholics and protestants in the Holy Roman Empire, which spiral out of control and ended up involving pretty much every European nation.

re: #548 Talking Point Detective

Just curious as to why you keep bringing up the Aztecs as an example of atheists. Didn't they believe in something like 50 gods?

I didn't. If you read the original post, it mentioned various pagan religions that made a big deal of mass human sacrifice. The Aztecs fall into THAT category.

561 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:46:39pm

re: #557 Varek Raith

We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Dawkins

To an atheist all humans act atheistically. ;)

562 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:47:04pm

re: #560 lostlakehiker

What makes a religion 'pagan', please?

563 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:48:22pm

re: #542 Killgore Trout

Thanks for the update. I just checked his tweets and he hasn't mentioned the Muslim Brotherhood for better or worse. Too bad. I'd be very interested in hearing his opinion but I think I understand where he's coming from.

See [Link: www.sudanesethinker.com...] – haven't listened to the whole interview, maybe he mentioned them in there.

Also, he DID mention the MB in lots of tweets. How did you miss that?:

today's protest is NOT about Muslim Brotherhood & shouldn't be portrayed as such. #Jan25 #Egypt

(cont.) joined by thousands in Mohandesin &headed to Dokki trying 2 reach Tahrir. We were peaceful, it wasn't muslim brotherhood #Jan25

yesterday chants "not baradei, not Ikhwan (brotherhood), we're Egypt's tired people." #Jan25 #Egypt

protesters not Ikhwan. Looters were internal state security #Jan25 thats y Mubarak waited till 1am 2 make his speech &accuse us of looting

crowd in tahrir not ikhwan #jan25

564 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:48:45pm

re: #558 Obdicut

Ah, so human sacrifice isn't as evil if you just sacrifice a small number of heretics for your religion?

Is human sacrifice less evil once you've hit some number? Or is each one just as bad as the ones that came before? I hold that numbers matter. Numbers, if you like, count.

So I will not defend the Inquisition. I will just count its victims, and count the victims of other cruelties in history, and then make a reckoning.

565 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:48:56pm

re: #552 SanFranciscoZionist

You could also say that allowing a bunch of armed thugs posing as peace activists to try to run a blockade by an ally was rock dumb.

Do you think that the benefits gained outweigh the deterioration in relations with Turkey, and the accompanying damage to a semi-secular government staring down Islamists?

566 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:49:27pm

re: #547 Obdicut

Pol Pot is also where Chomsky jumped the shark.

It's so strange, because Chomsky's work on the propaganda model and linguistics is defining in those fields. Like hugely earth-shattering work. And then he becomes a loon.

It baffles me.

567 Gus  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:50:27pm

re: #564 lostlakehiker

Is human sacrifice less evil once you've hit some number? Or is each one just as bad as the ones that came before? I hold that numbers matter. Numbers, if you like, count.

So I will not defend the Inquisition. I will just count its victims, and count the victims of other cruelties in history, and then make a reckoning.

Well then. If we apply that logic practically we could say it would be a safer bet to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood candidate instead of the Atheist Brotherhood candidate.

/

568 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:50:36pm

re: #564 lostlakehiker

I hold that numbers matter. Numbers, if you like, count.

Really? So, say, an entire tribe of 5,000 in the Carribean being wiped out, their entire culture gone, every member dead, that's less important, less evil than 6,000 Germans being slaughtered in the 30 years war?


So I will not defend the Inquisition. I will just count its victims, and count the victims of other cruelties in history, and then make a reckoning.

Why?

569 Jadespring  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:51:09pm

re: #566 Fozzie Bear

It's so strange, because Chomsky's work on the propaganda model and linguistics is defining in those fields. Like hugely earth-shattering work. And then he becomes a loon.

It baffles me.

Lots of people who have done great things in one area are lacking in others.

Chomsky isn't out of the ordinary in that regard.

570 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:51:12pm

re: #566 Fozzie Bear

Yep. He's a world-changing genius who's also a crank. Kind of reminds me of a much saner Tesla or Edison.

571 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:51:15pm

re: #546 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that the point here is that as horrifying as what's been going on in Iraq is, it's pretty par for the civil war course.

Only point people are trying to make is that while these particular humans may be fighting in part over Islam, people will do this to each other for all kinds of reasons.

There's a character in one of Neil Gaiman's novels--a demon who was given an award for the Spanish Inquisition. What he's never told anyone is that he had nothing to do with it. He's realized over the years that tempting people is pretty much pointless. Humans will do shit to each other that demons couldn't even think of, and they'll do it without prompting.

Crawley?

572 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:51:37pm

re: #567 Gus 802

Well then. If we apply that logic practically we could say it would be a safer bet to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood candidate instead of the Atheist Brotherhood candidate.

/

OOGA BOOGA!
-Atheist Brotherhood campaign slogan

573 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:53:42pm

Oh, man.

I hold that the intent to do harm to one, is as evil as the intent to do harm to many. It's the evil of doing harm that's at issue - not the numbers.

The numbers "count" in that notice is taken once the numbers reach a certain level; history records the harm done to thousands as a different sort of event than the harm done to one.

But the evil intent is the same, regardless of the numbers.

574 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:55:08pm

re: #568 Obdicut

Each and every one dead counts the same.
At least in my book.

575 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:55:17pm

re: #573 reine.de.tout

And there is something terrible in the loss of a whole people, a whole culture.

Poland's national anthem is Mazurek Dąbrowskiego-- "Poland is Not Yet Lost".

576 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:55:40pm

re: #569 Jadespring

Lots of people who have done great things in one area are lacking in others.

Chomsky isn't out of the ordinary in that regard.

What makes this case more peculiar, to me, is that Chomsky spent his life dissecting the usage of language and propaganda to control populations and influence ideology. He created whole fields of study with his work. He knew how this stuff works, inside and out.

And then he goes and falls for propaganda. It would be like Henry Ford getting run over by a car, or Thomas Edison being electrocuted. Depressingly ironic.

577 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:57:15pm

re: #573 reine.de.tout

There is a difference between democide and murder.

It is not numbers but whether you target your victim or victims because of their belonging to a certain group.

578 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:57:31pm

re: #575 Obdicut

And there is something terrible in the loss of a whole people, a whole culture.

Poland's national anthem is Mazurek Dąbrowskiego-- "Poland is Not Yet Lost".


Agreed. Even when a culture is lost simply by being assimilated into something else. But c'est la vie, as they say. I hate that Cajun culture, the expertise in the language, is disappearing. What a unique thing! But it's going....

579 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:59:09pm

re: #575 Obdicut

And there is something terrible in the loss of a whole people, a whole culture.

Poland's national anthem is Mazurek Dąbrowskiego-- "Poland is Not Yet Lost".

If you go too far down that road, you fall into the "Human Museum" trap. Do you preserve the little Amazonian band with a unique language by letting them die naturally at 28?

580 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:59:28pm

re: #577 000G

There is a difference between democide and murder.

It is not numbers but whether you target your victim or victims because of their belonging to a certain group.

Well, OK.

I caught just the end of the thread; and am simply expressing that regardless of reasons, regardless of numbers - it's my opinion that the intent to do harm to someone is what is evil, and it is just as evil if the intent is toward one or many, or for this or that "reason".

581 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:01:49pm

re: #579 Decatur Deb

I'm not talking about preserving anyone. I'm talking about wiping entire populations out being evil, and that humans are more than the sum of their numbers.

582 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:05:13pm

re: #581 Obdicut

I'm not talking about preserving anyone. I'm talking about wiping entire populations out being evil, and that humans are more than the sum of their numbers.

Something of an assimiliationist, myself. The best way to avoid slaughter based on group differences is to avoid the differences.

584 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:13:52pm

re: #582 Decatur Deb

Something of an assimiliationist, myself. The best way to avoid slaughter based on group differences is to avoid the differences.

Uh, no, the best way is to appropriately criminalize slaughter based on group differences (see: UN Convention on Genocide etc.).

585 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:15:12pm

re: #566 Fozzie Bear

It's so strange, because Chomsky's work on the propaganda model and linguistics is defining in those fields. Like hugely earth-shattering work. And then he becomes a loon.

It baffles me.

Chomsky is like an idiot savant. A freaking genius in one, highly specialized, unique field, and a freaking moron in everything else.

Asking Chomsky's opinion in political matters is the same as asking Mozart's opinion in financial matters (if he was alive today, or during his lifetime. The man died a pauper.)

586 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:15:54pm

re: #584 000G

Uh, no, the best way is to appropriately criminalize slaughter based on group differences (see: UN Convention on Genocide etc.).

Stopping speeders with tricycle cops.

587 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:18:26pm

re: #586 Decatur Deb

Stopping speeders with tricycle cops.

It's a work in progress. See ICTR, ICTY.

There is a lot more that needs to be done. Early warning systems come to mind.

588 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:19:10pm

re: #585 Alouette

He was reasonable for a short period of time in politics. Quite brilliant, for a very short period of time. Then he fell off the cliff.

589 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:21:13pm

re: #587 000G

It's a work in progress. See ICTR, ICTY.

There is a lot more that needs to be done. Early warning systems come to mind.

It's a good way to lower the body count until we evolve a bit. If we survive, we will continue to homogenize. If we don't homogenize enough, not many of us will survive.

590 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:22:57pm

re: #565 Talking Point Detective

Do you think that the benefits gained outweigh the deterioration in relations with Turkey, and the accompanying damage to a semi-secular government staring down Islamists?

Yes.

Israel cannot allow itself to be put in a situation in which anyone with a boat is allowed to bring anything they like into Gaza, or else threaten violence and bad PR.

The deteriorating situation with Turkey is unfortunate, although the armada was a sympton, not a cause, but Israel behaved appropriately.

591 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:24:48pm

re: #582 Decatur Deb

Something of an assimiliationist, myself. The best way to avoid slaughter based on group differences is to avoid the differences.

Tried that, didn't work.

592 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:25:51pm

re: #589 Decatur Deb

It's a good way to lower the body count until we evolve a bit. If we survive, we will continue to homogenize. If we don't homogenize enough, not many of us will survive.

I think it's a fallacy to blame slaughter on lack of homogeneity.

Homogeneity is actually a bad thing for survival in some respects. Think genetic and cultural diversification, immune systems and pandemics.

593 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:27:57pm

re: #591 SanFranciscoZionist

Tried that, didn't work.

That betrayal will last many generations, but I'm working on a long march. Human differences were pretty much doomed by the invention of the sailing vessel and the printing press.

594 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:32:16pm

re: #593 Decatur Deb

That betrayal will last many generations, but I'm working on a long march. Human differences were pretty much doomed by the invention of the sailing vessel and the printing press.

"All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color. "

595 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:34:22pm

re: #594 000G

Never heard of that film--looks great.

596 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:35:55pm

Sorry I had to bail for awhile due to some family stuff. I received numerous posts lecturing me about history and how we learn from past wars. I suggest you take your own advice as I have surely done. The history of the muslim world and the attitudes toward Jews in europe and elsewhere have taught me much. So when I ridicule those who play the moral equivalence game using wars of long ago, it's precisely because I HAVE learned from history. What I have learned is that TODAY when the rubber hits the road, the muslims of the Mideast are out for blood ... Jewish blood in particular. And history has taught me that europe doesn't give a shit. I have also learned from history that pure evil must be opposed and the winners get to write the history.

Thanks and have a good night.

597 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:50:24pm

re: #595 Decatur Deb

Never heard of that film--looks great.

You will love it, it is quite good. Have you seen "Wag The Dog"? It is on par with that movie as far as taking a lance to politics.

598 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:17:19pm

re: #596 _RememberTonyC

Sorry I had to bail for awhile due to some family stuff. I received numerous posts lecturing me about history and how we learn from past wars. I suggest you take your own advice as I have surely done. The history of the muslim world and the attitudes toward Jews in europe and elsewhere have taught me much. So when I ridicule those who play the moral equivalence game using wars of long ago, it's precisely because I HAVE learned from history. What I have learned is that TODAY when the rubber hits the road, the muslims of the Mideast are out for blood ... Jewish blood in particular. And history has taught me that europe doesn't give a shit. I have also learned from history that pure evil must be opposed and the winners get to write the history.

Thanks and have a good night.

Reality check: I have no illusions about the hostility of the Arab and Persian world toward Israel and toward Jews. I also have no illusions that Europe gives a shit.

That said, what you said seemed to suggest, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that there was something specific to Islam about internal violence between Muslims in Iraq, and that is patently bullshit.

If you consider, say, the Rwandan genocide, a 'war of long ago', and referencing it 'moral equivalence', I can only say WTF.

I am not excusing any violence committed by Muslims. I am not saying all or most Muslims are fluffy and happy. I am not saying that the Middle East isn't in the middle of some major shit, or that I don't fear for Israel as this mess develops.

But the idea that Islam is special in any way in the violence sweepstakes of the planet is BS.

If this is too terribly PC for you, I'm sorry. Rwanda. Seventeen years ago. Most of the country is Christian. They used to cut the Achilles tendons of the victims they couldn't kill before dinner, so the murderers could eat before going back to work. Things were done that were beyond my understanding as a human being. It is not dismissing the hate in the Muslim world and the danger posed by elements of it to say this.

599 darthstar  Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:18:51pm

re: #151 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't sweat double posts. All deleting one does is give the stalkers a boner wondering what got erased.

I'm not a stalker!

600 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Feb 1, 2011 4:11:48am

re: #573 reine.de.tout

Oh, man.

I hold that the intent to do harm to one, is as evil as the intent to do harm to many. It's the evil of doing harm that's at issue - not the numbers.

The numbers "count" in that notice is taken once the numbers reach a certain level; history records the harm done to thousands as a different sort of event than the harm done to one.

But the evil intent is the same, regardless of the numbers.

That's my way of thinking of Stalin and Hitler - they're equally evil, though the harm does differ (not by that much though).

601 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Feb 1, 2011 4:15:14am

re: #378 000G

Trade-offs. How many would have died because of him had he stayed in power?

No, there is no evidence that Saddam was going to engage in mass murder "any time soon".

602 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Feb 1, 2011 4:17:35am

re: #469 lostlakehiker

True that. In the World Championship of Evil, the atheists have an insurmountable lead. The religions of the book are way back in the pack, unable to keep up even with some of the primitive pagan religions that made a big thing of massive human sacrifice.

Not true for one simple reason. Although atheists like Stalin and Mao (Hitler was a theist, of course) did murder/cause the death of millions, they didn't do it a) because of their atheism, b) under the guise of atheism.

603 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Feb 1, 2011 4:40:20am

re: #499 lostlakehiker

States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

It's hard to seriously argue with this kind if "in my mind anything goes" gobbledygook postmodernism.

604 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 1, 2011 5:01:09am

re: #499 lostlakehiker

Hmm. Maybe I've been misunderstood. Atheists, and others, as civilians are not what I was talking about. States that were effectively officially atheist. Communists, and to my mind, Nazis, at the forefront.

Nations that had a State religion, be it Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, even the worst of them, didn't and don't compare to Communist regimes, nor to say the Aztec empire.

The comment was about Empires and States and what they've been responsible over the course of history, when at their worst.

Guess what... the United States is another "officially atheist" nation, isn't it?

605 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Feb 1, 2011 6:21:54am

re: #604 jamesfirecat

Not really, it's (mostly) secular. Officially atheist country is when you have to take "scientific atheism" course in university, like in USSR.


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