Chris Matthews takes Michele Bachmann (R-Mars) to school (again), exposing the sheer ignorance behind her statement that the founding fathers “worked tirelessly to eliminate slavery.”
1 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:47:34pm |
Wow, did Chris Matthews recently visit the strap on spine store? He's really been on a bit of a roll recently, hasn't he?
| 2 |
Kruk Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:47:35pm |
And this is the woman touted as the intellectual counterpart to Palin's populism. Ye Gods.
| 3 |
Obdicut Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:52:34pm |
re: #1 jamesfirecat
A little. But he's still attacking the weak targets.
| 5 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:56:15pm |
re: #2 Kruk
And this is the woman touted as the intellectual counterpart to Palin's populism. Ye Gods.
The Bar isn't set too high.
| 6 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:56:40pm |
re: #3 Obdicut
Next, he will housebreak a kitten! LOL.
| 7 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:57:04pm |
| 8 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:59:15pm |
re: #7 Varek Raith
Dude, that's impossible.
/
I heard it can be done. There was this late-night infomercial selling stuff that supposedly really works!
| 9 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 5:59:21pm |
Verify?
DID WE VERIFY WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?!
| 10 |
engineer cat Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:01:59pm |
we all continue to naively believe that moranism can be combatted with facts and logic
| 11 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:03:26pm |
Well, Chris, why didn't you include yourself in the VERIFY list?
Really, if you really want to sell people on doing their own learning, you need to include yourself and welcome feedback when you get it wrong.
| 12 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:04:12pm |
re: #10 engineer dog
we all continue to naively believe that moranism can be combatted with facts and logic
WE are feeling creatures who think, not the other way around.
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:07:22pm |
re: #11 ggt
Well, Chris, why didn't you include yourself in the VERIFY list?
Really, if you really want to sell people on doing their own learning, you need to include yourself and welcome feedback when you get it wrong.
People always find it much easier to see a flaw in someone else, rather than in themselves.
| 14 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:08:56pm |
Jerry Brown just echoed some critical fiscal conservative points in his state of the state address. Arnold made many of the same points time after time to near universal derision from the legislature. Right down to asking the people to approve taxes. Jerry is talking hard core fiscal conservatism to pull us out of the hole, which I applaud.
Will the near super majority Dem legislature respond the same? Or will they welcome these options from a fellow Dem? It will be a very telling call by them. Frankly I expect far less hostility to the cuts and taxes. But we shall see. Our backs are up to the fiscal wall. Too bad the cuts are coming so late.
| 15 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:09:57pm |
re: #3 Obdicut
A little. But he's still attacking the weak targets.
He does well with low hanging fruit as long as he can avoid tripping over his own feet. The dopey wingnuts give him plenty of opportunity.
| 16 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:10:32pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
People always find it much easier to see a flaw in someone else, rather than in themselves.
Yes, but then, Bachmann is so *deeply* flawed...
Hey DF, hope you are well. That cold front you are sending us will get us down to 15 degrees on Thursday morning. This State ain't built for it!
My Stars and Garters! People is gonna die!
| 17 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:12:27pm |
Hm.
CNN streaming Egyptian state TV. Limited translation. Wish I could understand . . .
| 18 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:13:45pm |
re: #16 austin_blue
Yes, but then, Bachmann is so *deeply* flawed...
Hey DF, hope you are well. That cold front you are sending us will get us down to 15 degrees on Thursday morning. This State ain't built for it!
My Stars and Garters! People is gonna die!
15!
Everything will close down.
| 19 |
Linden Arden Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:15:32pm |
The Tea Party must mold the founders in their own perceived self-image - reality be damned.
| 20 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:15:43pm |
re: #18 reine.de.tout
15!
Everything will close down.
It was beautiful here today...... went out in shorts and flip-flops, kids in the pool.
| 21 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:16:21pm |
re: #17 reine.de.tout
Hm.
CNN streaming Egyptian state TV. Limited translation. Wish I could understand . . .
CNN and the rest of the western MSM completely failed. Al Jaz and The Muslim Brotherhood have the best coverage by far.
| 22 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:17:07pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
People always find it much easier to see a flaw in someone else, rather than in themselves.
Especially when that flaw is total ignorance of basic American history, including our nation's biggest sin.
Or maybe Bachmann isn't ignorant, just dishonestly dog whistling for the Limbaugh crowd, to let them know she also thinks it's OK to be a racist and whitewash history.
| 23 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:17:29pm |
I answer Michelle Bachmann with the words of the Republican Party's first great hero. Though Bachmann does not understand him or his legacy, he understood justice and what doing away with slavery required better than she ever will:
If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope -- fervently do we pray -- that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether."
With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.
- Abraham Lincoln, 2nd Inaugural Address (excerpt)
| 24 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:17:31pm |
re: #18 reine.de.tout
15!
Everything will close down.
I'm worried about water pipes heaving out of the street. This will be the coldest it has been in town for a decade. Plumbers are licking their chops!
| 25 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:19:40pm |
re: #16 austin_blue
Yes, but then, Bachmann is so *deeply* flawed...
Hey DF, hope you are well. That cold front you are sending us will get us down to 15 degrees on Thursday morning. This State ain't built for it!
My Stars and Garters! People is gonna die!
We're going to get over a foot of snow up here, possibly 18 inches. We'll get through it but Wednesday is just plain going to suck.
| 26 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:20:00pm |
re: #18 reine.de.tout
15!
Everything will close down.
Minus 4.2 degress (f) here right now... goping down to about minus 6... tomorrow day... minuus 4... tomorrow night minus 17 degrees (f).
| 27 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:20:15pm |
re: #21 Killgore Trout
CNN and the rest of the western MSM completely failed. Al Jaz and The Muslim Brotherhood have the best coverage by far.
Heck, KT, the only way folks have been able to get unvarnished info out of the country has been by pulling modems out of the closet and using dial-up to sympathetic Europeans who are offering up phone #'s to ISPs that still have the gear to take it.
Talk about "so last century"...
| 28 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:20:19pm |
re: #20 Mr Pancakes
It was beautiful here today... went out in shorts and flip-flops, kids in the pool.
I think I can fairly speak for all of Philadelphia when I say this...
I hope you forget your sunblock and get a nasty burn.
| 29 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:20:27pm |
| 31 |
Linden Arden Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:20:59pm |
re: #23 Dark_Falcon
Great Lincoln quote. I am a Georgian and have heard the Confederates called "freedom fighters" quite often.
The irony burns.
| 32 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:21:06pm |
re: #24 austin_blue
I'm worried about water pipes heaving out of the street. This will be the coldest it has been in town for a decade. Plumbers are licking their chops!
Back around 87 or 89, or some year around there, there was 3 weeks of below freezing temps, day and night in Houston... there was a 6 month wait for a plumber.
| 33 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:22:15pm |
Apparently the founding fathers were against slavery before they were for it. Damn flip floppers! /////
Seriously, how many more slaves would founders Jefferson, Washington, et al. have had to own before an airhead like Bachmann would believe they supported it?
| 35 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:22:49pm |
Man, the founding fathers sure owned a lot of slaves.
| 36 |
avanti Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:22:56pm |
re: #17 reine.de.tout
Hm.
CNN streaming Egyptian state TV. Limited translation. Wish I could understand . . .
Maybe some good news about a change at the top in Egypt.
| 37 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:23:26pm |
re: #21 Killgore Trout
CNN and the rest of the western MSM completely failed. Al Jaz and The Muslim Brotherhood have the best coverage by far.
Also good ground reporting, though not 24/7 style:
| 38 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:23:32pm |
| 39 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:23:37pm |
re: #35 Charles
Man, the founding fathers sure owned a lot of slaves.
And they bequeathed them to their progeny. Not exactly the act of an abolitionist.
| 40 |
jc717 Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:24:43pm |
re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Verify?
DID WE VERIFY WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?!
Or when Saddam attacked us on 9/11?
| 41 |
freetoken Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:25:29pm |
Before the industrial revolution exploded in the second half of the 19th century, it was not unusual worldwide for slavery, chattel slavery (the enforced servitude of one person to another) to be practiced.
I think it is important to understand why the modern world moved away from slavery: because it could.
It could, however, only after concepts of engines and stored energy (mostly via fossil fuels) became widespread and practiced as central to economies. A steam engine powered by coal is just more productive than a team of humans trying to do the same work consuming human diets.
| 42 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:26:35pm |
re: #35 Charles
Man, the founding fathers sure owned a lot of slaves.
What, you think hemp and tobacco grows and harvests itself?
Pff. Not only that, but you have to multiply the number of slaves by 60% to get a *real* count.
/// of course.
| 43 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:26:54pm |
re: #32 Walter L. Newton
Back around 87 or 89, or some year around there, there was 3 weeks of below freezing temps, day and night in Houston... there was a 6 month wait for a plumber.
It snowed in San Diego back in 1967 (November) for one day...... there was enough snow to make a snowman. It snowed all the way to the surf... my daughter doesn't believe me.
| 44 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:27:04pm |
re: #39 palomino
And they bequeathed them to their progeny. Not exactly the act of an abolitionist.
they just kicked the can down the road...the pressing issues to be agreed upon to get the damned thing ratified were apparently more important...it's done now and I wonder how presumptuous it would be to assume anybody knows what exactly they thought privately
| 45 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:27:17pm |
re: #39 palomino
And they bequeathed them to their progeny. Not exactly the act of an abolitionist.
ah, not all.
George Washington wrote his will that his slaves would be freed after Martha's death.
Thomas Jefferson was in so much debt that he couldn't free his slaves. They were sold to pay-off his debts.
I'm not up on all the founding fathers. I don't believe Alexander Hamilton owned any.
There was great debates over slavery from the very beginning.
| 47 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:27:54pm |
re: #41 freetoken
Technical sciences suceeding dependend on circumstances, too. Wasn't primordial.
| 48 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:27:56pm |
re: #41 freetoken
Before the industrial revolution exploded in the second half of the 19th century, it was not unusual worldwide for slavery, chattel slavery (the enforced servitude of one person to another) to be practiced.
I think it is important to understand why the modern world moved away from slavery: because it could.
It could, however, only after concepts of engines and stored energy (mostly via fossil fuels) became widespread and practiced as central to economies. A steam engine powered by coal is just more productive than a team of humans trying to do the same work consuming human diets.
Slaves were a commodity--like sugar or pork bellies.
| 49 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:28:17pm |
re: #20 Mr Pancakes
It was beautiful here today... went out in shorts and flip-flops, kids in the pool.
72 here today, clear, sunny, not humid. Just gorgeous.
Predicted low tomorrow - 27 or so.
sheesh.
| 50 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:28:32pm |
re: #46 Gus 802
Well over a thousand.
Kinda makes one wonder how many US citizens today can trace their heritage back to slaves owned by the Founding Fathers…
| 51 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:28:45pm |
re: #2 Kruk
And this is the woman touted as the intellectual counterpart to Palin's populism. Ye Gods.
Really? By whom?
(My God.)
| 52 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:28:47pm |
| 53 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:29:46pm |
| 54 |
Linden Arden Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:29:47pm |
re: #41 freetoken
Interesting.
Railroads were also the first fixed networks that required mass capital, for whatever that is worth.
| 55 |
mr.fusion Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:29:56pm |
| 56 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:30:27pm |
re: #49 reine.de.tout
72 here today, clear, sunny, not humid. Just gorgeous.
Predicted low tomorrow - 27 or so.
sheesh.
Yep... those overnight temps kill citrus crops...... light the smudge pots.
| 57 |
Gus Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:30:29pm |
re: #50 000G
Kinda makes one wonder how many US citizens today can trace their heritage back to slaves owned by the Founding Fathers…
Many can and I've run into a few. I can say with confidence though that I am a proud member of a non-slave owning family.
| 58 |
freetoken Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:30:55pm |
re: #54 Linden Arden
We are in many ways quite far from the 18th century. Something of which the Tea Partiers seem quite ignorant.
| 59 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:30:55pm |
re: #24 austin_blue
I'm worried about water pipes heaving out of the street. This will be the coldest it has been in town for a decade. Plumbers are licking their chops!
Hope they've got some supplies.
Big freeze here one year - it was 2 weeks before I could get my frozen pipes fixed. Everybody ran out of supplies.
| 60 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:31:00pm |
re: #57 Gus 802
Many can and I've run into a few. I can say with confidence though that I am a proud member of a non-slave owning family.
Same here.
| 62 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:31:37pm |
re: #45 ggt
ah, not all.
George Washington wrote his will that his slaves would be freed after Martha's death.
Thomas Jefferson was in so much debt that he couldn't free his slaves. They were sold to pay-off his debts.
I'm not up on all the founding fathers. I don't believe Alexander Hamilton owned any.
There was great debates over slavery from the very beginning.
After Washington's death, Martha realized that her death was standing between several hundred people and their freedom. She freed them before her death.
| 63 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:31:41pm |
I've read that there are more slaves in this country NOW than before the Civil War.
Neatly recast as "Human Trafficking" the slave-trade is still alive and well.
Grrrrrrr!
| 64 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:31:43pm |
re: #53 austin_blue
Geez, Steve, put a sarc in it!
and Washington was brewing moonshine for a living...the stuff that makes you stupid and dangerous enough to beat your wife...oh the shame
| 65 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:31:46pm |
re: #44 albusteve
they just kicked the can down the road...the pressing issues to be agreed upon to get the damned thing ratified were apparently more important...it's done now and I wonder how presumptuous it would be to assume anybody knows what exactly they thought privately
Read Jefferson's Notes on Virginia. Hard to believe a brilliant man like Jefferson wrote essays in which he denigrated blacks as less physically attractive, less intelligent and more prone to perspiration and body odor (gee, what slave activities might have caused that?)
Founding fathers were great men, but still flawed. The TP mythologizing is a dead end.
| 66 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:32:15pm |
re: #35 Charles
Man, the founding fathers sure owned a lot of slaves.
And some of them were ambivalent about it. And some weren't.
| 67 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:33:25pm |
re: #44 albusteve
they just kicked the can down the road...the pressing issues to be agreed upon to get the damned thing ratified were apparently more important...it's done now and I wonder how presumptuous it would be to assume anybody knows what exactly they thought privately
That's it exactly. At the time of the Founding, the slaveholder interests were simply too powerful to force abolition. Industrialization not only made slavery obsolete, it also enabled the innovations such as repeating rifles and railroads that played an important role in the Union's victory.
| 68 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:34:34pm |
re: #64 albusteve
and Washington was brewing moonshine for a living...the stuff that makes you stupid and dangerous enough to beat your wife...oh the shame
Okay, that's funny. I am now picturing GW in a wife beater sipping 'shine and yelling "Martha! Get your ass in and blow me!"
In a wig and with wooden teeth.
I fell all oogie, now. Thanks a lot.
| 69 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:35:14pm |
It seems the moonbats want to look forward to a kumbaya world that doesn't exist and Michelle Bachman is looking back to a kumbaya world that never existed.
Whackos on either side aren't that much different.
| 70 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:35:51pm |
re: #45 ggt
ah, not all.
George Washington wrote his will that his slaves would be freed after Martha's death.
Thomas Jefferson was in so much debt that he couldn't free his slaves. They were sold to pay-off his debts.
I'm not up on all the founding fathers. I don't believe Alexander Hamilton owned any.
There was great debates over slavery from the very beginning.
Hamilton probably didn't own slaves, he was a New Yorker.
TJ doesn't get a pass due to his debts. He could have freed them, didn't want to.
Of course there was debate: southerners supported it, northerners opposed it. Hence the repugnant 3/5 compromise.
| 71 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:36:24pm |
re: #65 palomino
Read Jefferson's Notes on Virginia. Hard to believe a brilliant man like Jefferson wrote essays in which he denigrated blacks as less physically attractive, less intelligent and more prone to perspiration and body odor (gee, what slave activities might have caused that?)
Founding fathers were great men, but still flawed. The TP mythologizing is a dead end.
Thomas Jefferson was a great man, but he had major flaws. And that how he should be studied: As he really was, not as a marble myth.
| 72 |
bratwurst Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:36:30pm |
re: #63 ggt
I've read that there are more slaves in this country NOW than before the Civil War.
Neatly recast as "Human Trafficking" the slave-trade is still alive and well.
Grrr!
There were just about 4 millions slaves in this country at the time of the 1860 census. I would like to see where someone is contending there are anywhere near that many slaves (or trafficked humans) in this country today.
| 73 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:36:34pm |
re: #65 palomino
Read Jefferson's Notes on Virginia. Hard to believe a brilliant man like Jefferson wrote essays in which he denigrated blacks as less physically attractive, less intelligent and more prone to perspiration and body odor (gee, what slave activities might have caused that?)
Founding fathers were great men, but still flawed. The TP mythologizing is a dead end.
it is, I agree...the only person I'd elevate to halo status, beyond typical human accomplishment and greatness, is Keith Richards...perfection personified
| 74 |
Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:36:59pm |
re: #23 Dark_Falcon
I answer Michelle Bachmann with the words of the Republican Party's first great hero.
Sadly, he's no longer a hero in the GOP. The teabaggers and Luap Nor fanboys hate Lincoln. He was a genocidal tyrant as far as they're concerned.
| 76 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:38:50pm |
re: #74 Lidane
Sadly, he's no longer a hero in the GOP. The teabaggers and Luap Nor fanboys hate Lincoln. He was a genocidal tyrant as far as they're concerned.
Republicans here in Illinois still keep his legacy, as do those in Indiana and Wisconsin. Some in the party may forget, but we will not. And the time will come when those other parts of the Republican Party realize their error.
| 77 |
engineer cat Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:39:21pm |
i'm certain that if the bachmann and the baggers had been around in the 1840s, they would have been feverishly asserting the beneficial effects of slavery
| 78 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:39:29pm |
re: #74 Lidane
Sadly, he's no longer a hero in the GOP. The teabaggers and Luap Nor fanboys hate Lincoln. He was a genocidal tyrant as far as they're concerned.
Hey, you! Got the long-johns ready?
| 79 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:39:49pm |
re: #70 palomino
Hamilton probably didn't own slaves, he was a New Yorker.
TJ doesn't get a pass due to his debts. He could have freed them, didn't want to.
Of course there was debate: southerners supported it, northerners opposed it. Hence the repugnant 3/5 compromise.
Hamilton was an illegitmate child and orphan who grew-up in the Carribean. He saw first hand how slaves and the lower-ranks were treated. He had an aversion to slavery from a young age. I say, probably, because I don't remember what he may have acquired thru his marriage.
Thomas Jefferson couldn't free his slaves as long as he was in debt. It was the law. He didn't do anything to get out of debt. He isn't my favorite founding father.
There were also laws in place in some states that made freeing ones slaves illegal.
Times were different, I don't have to like it, but I have to accept it.
| 80 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:40:25pm |
re: #77 engineer dog
i'm certain that if the bachmann and the baggers had been around in the 1840s, they would have been feverishly asserting the beneficial effects of slavery
Cheap labor! It's what keeps America productive in a Global Market!
| 81 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:40:36pm |
re: #71 Dark_Falcon
Thomas Jefferson was a great man, but he had major flaws. And that how he should be studied: As he really was, not as a marble myth.
I think this is one reason the whole TP doesn't seem to appeal to blacks, Hispanics, religious minorities, or anyone with a modernist outlook. It denies history in search of myths that can be laden with near religious significance. And it hearkens back to a time when minorities were either in chains or second class citizens.
| 82 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:40:53pm |
re: #72 bratwurst
There were just about 4 millions slaves in this country at the time of the 1860 census. I would like to see where someone is contending there are anywhere near that many slaves (or trafficked humans) in this country today.
Last I remember it is something like 50K, so I probably misread- or mis-remembered the first figure.
| 83 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:41:38pm |
re: #73 albusteve
it is, I agree...the only person I'd elevate to halo status, beyond typical human accomplishment and greatness, is Keith Richards...perfection personified
And Keith Moon. Nobody else played drums like him--in his hands the drum kit was as much a lead instrument as rhythm.
| 84 |
Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:42:32pm |
re: #78 austin_blue
Hey, you! Got the long-johns ready?
Yep. Got the long johns, the hot chocolate, fuzzy socks, and my fleece jacket. Let it freeze. I'm ready for it.
I'm also ready for everyone in this city to forget how to drive once there's even the slightest bit of ice on the roads. It's going to be accident-a-go-go around here, just watch. Heh.
| 85 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:43:39pm |
re: #84 Lidane
Yep. Got the long johns, the hot chocolate, fuzzy socks, and my fleece jacket. Let it freeze. I'm ready for it.
I'm also ready for everyone in this city to forget how to drive once there's even the slightest bit of ice on the roads. It's going to be accident-a-go-go around here, just watch. Heh.
You're getting ice too?
I'd rather it snowed.
:/
| 86 |
Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:45:42pm |
re: #85 Varek Raith
You're getting ice too?
I'd rather it snowed.
:/
It rarely snows here in Austin. When it gets that cold around here, it usually results in ice. I can remember coming out of my house one winter and being unable to get into my car because the layer of ice covering it was so thick. The doors were literally sealed shut.
| 87 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:45:58pm |
re: #83 palomino
And Keith Moon. Nobody else played drums like him--in his hands the drum kit was as much a lead instrument as rhythm.
Yes..... it's been said he drove the songs ....... not content to just keep the beat. Crank "Won't Get Fooled Again" loud ... and I mean crank it...... you will see.
| 88 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:45:58pm |
re: #85 Varek Raith
You're getting ice too?
I'd rather it snowed.
:/
Quite concur. Snow just slows you down, but ice threatens to twist your ankles and break your bones.
| 89 |
Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:46:19pm |
re: #81 palomino
I think this is one reason the whole TP doesn't seem to appeal to blacks, Hispanics, religious minorities, or anyone with a modernist outlook. It denies history in search of myths that can be laden with near religious significance. And it hearkens back to a time when minorities were either in chains or second class citizens.
Well, that and the blatant racism and xenophobia from the teabaggers. That doesn't help either.
| 90 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:46:29pm |
re: #84 Lidane
Yep. Got the long johns, the hot chocolate, fuzzy socks, and my fleece jacket. Let it freeze. I'm ready for it.
I'm also ready for everyone in this city to forget how to drive once there's even the slightest bit of ice on the roads. It's going to be accident-a-go-go around here, just watch. Heh.
Amen, sister. Now talking snow Thursday -> Friday. I'm done if one flake falls. I feel a (cough) coming on. Middle and South Texans are absolute idjits when things freeze.
| 91 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:46:34pm |
my laundry girls think they are slaves...I lied and told them that I own them and I can sell them off to a Tyson supervisor I know up in Missouri... but lately I think they've been catching on...they get snippy once in a while, but really I adore them and I think they are just teasing me...folding my underwear inside out, stuff like that
| 92 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:47:04pm |
re: #88 Dark_Falcon
Everyone, stay safe. Stay home if you can. Be warm!
| 93 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:48:08pm |
re: #79 ggt
Hamilton was an illegitmate child and orphan who grew-up in the Carribean. He saw first hand how slaves and the lower-ranks were treated. He had an aversion to slavery from a young age. I say, probably, because I don't remember what he may have acquired thru his marriage.
Thomas Jefferson couldn't free his slaves as long as he was in debt. It was the law. He didn't do anything to get out of debt. He isn't my favorite founding father.
There were also laws in place in some states that made freeing ones slaves illegal.
Times were different, I don't have to like it, but I have to accept it.
Didn't know that about Hamilton. Still he probably wouldn't have had slaves. Few, if any, of the northern founders owned slaves.
Jefferson did free a few of his slaves, mostly the ones related to Sally Hemings. But his 130 other slaves went up for auction. The notion that he really really wanted to free them (as the TP would tell you) is a joke. Smart guy, he could have found a way as it was legal to free them in VA.
You and I accept it. Problem is the deluded Bachmanns of the world don't.
| 94 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:48:27pm |
Hitchens: Mubarak's Biggest Mistake? Treating His People Like Fools.
How gratifying it is that all such regimes go on making the same obvious mistakes. None of them ever seems to master a few simple survival techniques: Don't let the supreme leader's extended family go on shopping sprees; don't publicly spoil some firstborn as if the people can't wait for him, too, to be proclaimed from the balcony; don't display your personal photograph all over the landscape; don't claim more than, say, 75 percent of the vote in any "election" you put on. And don't try to shut down social media: It will instantly alert even the most somnolent citizen to the fact that you are losing, or have lost, your grip.
[…]
The best of the Egyptian "civil society" dissidents, Saad Eddin Ibrahim, produced the extraordinary effect that he did by the simple method of challenging the Mubarak regime on those very terms. If it was going to pretend to hold elections, then Ibrahim and his fellow researchers claimed the right to conduct independent surveys of the voters and to publish the results. One can hardly imagine a milder form of resistance, yet, because of the overweening stupidity and crudity of the authorities, it had consequences of an almost seismic kind. Show trials of mild-mannered opinion pollsters and think-tank scholars; dark accusations of secret foreign funding for the practice of political sociology: The whole lumbering apparatus of the Egyptian state conspired to make itself appear humorless and thuggish and to convince its people that they were being held as serfs by fools. Again, the sense of insult ran very deep, and Mubarak's bullies were too dense to understand their own mistake.
[…]
We argued that the supposed attractions of authoritarian "stability" are in fact illusory, since nothing is more volatile and unsafe than dictatorship, which lacks any self-critical method for learning from its mistakes. Earlier "people power" episodes, in Asia in the early 1980s and in Eastern Europe in 1989, as well as in the general repudiation of military rule in Latin America and the peaceful liberation of South Africa, had definitively proved this point. They had also left the Arab regions looking rather conspicuous, and rather backward, in consequence. In the long term, this sense of being relegated to infancy and immaturity has had a salutary effect, which one hopes will outlast the temptations—of the immature culture of self-pity and victimhood, plus the equally false reassurances of theocracy—that are certain to arise now that the period of enforced adolescence is over.
| 95 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:49:03pm |
re: #83 palomino
And Keith Moon. Nobody else played drums like him--in his hands the drum kit was as much a lead instrument as rhythm.
yeah, I wish he was still around...like it was inevitable that he only had so many beats in this world...
RIP you maniac
| 96 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:50:39pm |
re: #92 Floral Giraffe
Everyone, stay safe. Stay home if you can. Be warm!
I'll be home for sure....... bbq-ing some pork steaks on the porch. They are already marinading!
| 97 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:51:12pm |
re: #96 Mr Pancakes
I'll be home for sure... bbq-ing some pork steaks on the porch. They are already marinading!
Mmmm...pork...
| 98 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:51:18pm |
re: #45 ggt
ah, not all.
George Washington wrote his will that his slaves would be freed after Martha's death.
Thomas Jefferson was in so much debt that he couldn't free his slaves. They were sold to pay-off his debts.
I'm not up on all the founding fathers. I don't believe Alexander Hamilton owned any.
There was great debates over slavery from the very beginning.
Adams and Franklin were very anti-slavery. Franklin owned a few slaves as a young man, and sold slaves but he changed his mind.
Hancock and Jay owned slaves.
| 99 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:51:31pm |
re: #87 Mr Pancakes
Yes... it's been said he drove the songs ... not content to just keep the beat. Crank "Won't Get Fooled Again" loud ... and I mean crank it... you will see.
True, same thing on "The Real Me", where Townshend basically plays the rhythm on his guitar while Entwhistle and Moon play lead on bass and drums.
As for driving the songs, even more pronounced in their live recordings. Check out Amazing Journey/Sparks from Live at Leeds. Just unreal. Sounds like he had 4 arms, each with a drumstick.
| 100 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:51:35pm |
re: #94 000G
Hitchens: Mubarak's Biggest Mistake? Treating His People Like Fools.
Good stuff. I think Mubarak used to understand some of those rules, but lately I think he's getting "a bit past it". to put it delicately.
| 101 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:51:38pm |
re: #96 Mr Pancakes
I'll be home for sure... bbq-ing some pork steaks on the porch. They are already marinading!
if you keep up the taunting, I'm going to send you a harshly worded post
| 102 |
justaminute Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:52:08pm |
O/T I'm in love with ObamaCare. I just received a notice from my insurance company that they were dropping my plan effective April 11, 2011. It freaked me out because (I have never mentioned this here) I have Multiple Sclerosis. I was diagnosed in 2000 and since then have only had a couple of problems with it. I do not see a Neuro or take any medication. I was a hostage to my insurance because I could never get a new insurance provider. I am self employed and every year since 2000 my insurance started out at $300 a month and today it is $1,300.00 a month with a $3,000.00 deductible. Now...
The insurance company notified me yes my previous policy is canceled but I am getting a new one at $365.00 per month with a $1,500.00 deductible. Yeah! Drinks are on me!
| 103 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:52:10pm |
re: #89 Lidane
Well, that and the blatant racism and xenophobia from the teabaggers. That doesn't help either.
Good point, I kinda forgot that.
| 104 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:52:34pm |
All right! Post #100! Now we can talk about something besides Chrissie and Bachmann!
Oh, wait...
| 105 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:52:51pm |
re: #93 palomino
Didn't know that about Hamilton. Still he probably wouldn't have had slaves. Few, if any, of the northern founders owned slaves.
Jefferson did free a few of his slaves, mostly the ones related to Sally Hemings. But his 130 other slaves went up for auction. The notion that he really really wanted to free them (as the TP would tell you) is a joke. Smart guy, he could have found a way as it was legal to free them in VA.
You and I accept it. Problem is the deluded Bachmanns of the world don't.
I always got the impression that Jefferson really believed that he could re-create ancient Rome. He wanted to be the patrician "farmer" sitting on his veranda, reading poetry, while the slaves took care of the work & while he just racked-up debt.
Washington actually rolled-up his sleeves and did some work. He payed off the debts he inherited and stayed solvent.
Strange how such a variety if individuals came-up with one of the world's greatest documents. IMHO
| 106 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:53:46pm |
re: #99 palomino
True, same thing on "The Real Me", where Townshend basically plays the rhythm on his guitar while Entwhistle and Moon play lead on bass and drums.
As for driving the songs, even more pronounced in their live recordings. Check out Amazing Journey/Sparks from Live at Leeds. Just unreal. Sounds like he had 4 arms, each with a drumstick.
Amazing Journey/Sparks....... just an awesome song..... it was even good in the otherwise crap movie Tommy.
| 107 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:53:58pm |
re: #99 palomino
True, same thing on "The Real Me", where Townshend basically plays the rhythm on his guitar while Entwhistle and Moon play lead on bass and drums.
As for driving the songs, even more pronounced in their live recordings. Check out Amazing Journey/Sparks from Live at Leeds. Just unreal. Sounds like he had 4 arms, each with a drumstick.
Tho Who were amazingly versatile. Townshend even sang lead on one of their songs, and Daltry was self-assured enough to let him do it. That's more than most lead singers would do.
| 108 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:54:20pm |
re: #102 justaminute
O/T I'm in love with ObamaCare. I just received a notice from my insurance company that they were dropping my plan effective April 11, 2011. It freaked me out because (I have never mentioned this here) I have Multiple Sclerosis. I was diagnosed in 2000 and since then have only had a couple of problems with it. I do not see a Neuro or take any medication. I was a hostage to my insurance because I could never get a new insurance provider. I am self employed and every year since 2000 my insurance started out at $300 a month and today it is $1,300.00 a month with a $3,000.00 deductible. Now...
The insurance company notified me yes my previous policy is canceled but I am getting a new one at $365.00 per month with a $1,500.00 deductible. Yeah! Drinks are on me!
WINDFALL!
| 109 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:54:49pm |
re: #99 palomino
True, same thing on "The Real Me", where Townshend basically plays the rhythm on his guitar while Entwhistle and Moon play lead on bass and drums.
As for driving the songs, even more pronounced in their live recordings. Check out Amazing Journey/Sparks from Live at Leeds. Just unreal. Sounds like he had 4 arms, each with a drumstick.
Richie Hayward, of Little Feat, was like that...often he sounded like two drummers....you could stand right there and watch him up close, which I did many times, and he still had more stuff going than one person could play..an amazing talent...and now he's gone too
| 110 |
Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:54:56pm |
re: #90 austin_blue
Amen, sister. Now talking snow Thursday -> Friday. I'm done if one flake falls. I feel a (cough) coming on. Middle and South Texans are absolute idjits when things freeze.
Tell me about it. Makes me glad I live so close to campus. The most I'll have to do is try to navigate any ice and not slip or fall. I'd rather deal with that than try to get on the roads, just because of all the morans around here who suddenly forget how to drive.
| 111 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:55:18pm |
re: #101 albusteve
if you keep up the taunting, I'm going to send you a harshly worded post
I know..... I'm bad ....... (evil grin)
| 112 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:55:57pm |
re: #106 Mr Pancakes
Amazing Journey/Sparks... just an awesome song... it was even good in the otherwise crap movie Tommy.
Tommy was awful...I saw part of it a few weeks ago....really bad
| 113 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:56:50pm |
re: #65 palomino
Read Jefferson's Notes on Virginia. Hard to believe a brilliant man like Jefferson wrote essays in which he denigrated blacks as less physically attractive, less intelligent and more prone to perspiration and body odor (gee, what slave activities might have caused that?)
Founding fathers were great men, but still flawed. The TP mythologizing is a dead end.
There's a bit in there where he suggests that black men are attracted to white women, in the same way that (he appears to believe) apes are attracted to black women.
I damn near threw up in the college library.
It was the damn eighteenth century. What can one say?
| 114 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:57:44pm |
re: #95 albusteve
yeah, I wish he was still around...like it was inevitable that he only had so many beats in this world...
RIP you maniac
Ironically he died from an overdose of the pills that were supposed to help his alcoholism.
He passed out at least once in concert. Townshend tells the story, "Someone offered Keith a quaalude. They told him to take one. He said, 'I'm Keith Moon, I'll have eight."
| 115 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:58:31pm |
re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist
There's a bit in there where he suggests that black men are attracted to white women, in the same way that (he appears to believe) apes are attracted to black women.
I damn near threw up in the college library.It was the damn eighteenth century. What can one say?
There are still people who believe that way.
| 116 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:58:37pm |
re: #109 albusteve
Richie Hayward, of Little Feat, was like that...often he sounded like two drummers...you could stand right there and watch him up close, which I did many times, and he still had more stuff going than one person could play..an amazing talent...and now he's gone too
The Doobie Brothers drummer also sounded like two drummers....... nope check that..... they did have two drummers.
| 117 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 6:59:06pm |
re: #102 justaminute
O/T I'm in love with ObamaCare. I just received a notice from my insurance company that they were dropping my plan effective April 11, 2011. It freaked me out because (I have never mentioned this here) I have Multiple Sclerosis. I was diagnosed in 2000 and since then have only had a couple of problems with it. I do not see a Neuro or take any medication. I was a hostage to my insurance because I could never get a new insurance provider. I am self employed and every year since 2000 my insurance started out at $300 a month and today it is $1,300.00 a month with a $3,000.00 deductible. Now...
The insurance company notified me yes my previous policy is canceled but I am getting a new one at $365.00 per month with a $1,500.00 deductible. Yeah! Drinks are on me!
First off {{{justaminute}}}.
I'll take an Islay single-malt.
Second off, congratulations. My only worry is that the Supremes will agree with the Judge in Florida who ruled that mandatory insurance is unconstitutional and that the entire health care bill is null and void because of it.
If so, you are *so* screwed. Mandatory coverage allows insurance companies to spread the risks (and costs) over a much larger group that will bring their costs down. It's why they signed on in the first place. Actuarial tables speak truth to politicians. Unfortunately, we've got a whole bunch of bought and paid politicians.
| 118 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:00:51pm |
re: #112 albusteve
Tommy was awful...I saw part of it a few weeks ago...really bad
It really was..... it had it's moments...... I will rate it higher now for the "cheese factor" ....... Cheese factor is a movie that is so bad it starts becoming good over time.
| 119 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:00:55pm |
Kerala Boatman's Crab Curry
Is very delicious.
| 120 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:01:22pm |
re: #117 austin_blue
First off {{{justaminute}}}.
I'll take an Islay single-malt.
Second off, congratulations. My only worry is that the Supremes will agree with the Judge in Florida who ruled that mandatory insurance is unconstitutional and that the entire health care bill is null and void because of it.
If so, you are *so* screwed. Mandatory coverage allows insurance companies to spread the risks (and costs) over a much larger group that will bring their costs down. It's why they signed on in the first place. Actuarial tables speak truth to politicians. Unfortunately, we've got a whole bunch of bought and paid politicians.
There's a suggestion that it would take up to two years for this to get to the SC. The President's next SC nomination is going to be worth fighting over.
| 121 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:01:25pm |
re: #107 Dark_Falcon
Tho Who were amazingly versatile. Townshend even sang lead on one of their songs, and Daltry was self-assured enough to let him do it. That's more than most lead singers would do.
I think Townshend was always jealous of Daltrey's looks and front man appeal. Whereas Daltrey was just jealous of Townshend's overwhelming talent as a songwriter. It created tension, but great music flowed therefrom.
Maybe Lennon and McCartney had a similar dynamic, but they were both great songwriters so their sheer volume of output was amazing.
| 122 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:01:40pm |
re: #118 Mr Pancakes
It really was... it had it's moments... I will rate it higher now for the "cheese factor" ... Cheese factor is a movie that is so bad it starts becoming good over time.
I thought it's popularity had to do with weed and alcohol.
| 123 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:02:26pm |
re: #109 albusteve
Richie Hayward, of Little Feat, was like that...often he sounded like two drummers...you could stand right there and watch him up close, which I did many times, and he still had more stuff going than one person could play..an amazing talent...and now he's gone too
Like shooting stars, they burn bright and hot, but often flame out prematurely. RIP, rock gods.
| 124 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:03:49pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
the coconut and cilantro almost make this seem like masala to me rather than curry
will try.
| 125 |
FemNaziBitch Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:04:04pm |
have a great evening all!
catchya' on the overnight.
| 126 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:04:06pm |
re: #112 albusteve
Tommy was awful...I saw part of it a few weeks ago...really bad
That movie epitomized the excesses of the 1970s. Right down to Elton John in 6 foot platform shoes and hubcap sized glasses.
| 127 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:04:06pm |
re: #118 Mr Pancakes
It really was... it had it's moments... I will rate it higher now for the "cheese factor" ... Cheese factor is a movie that is so bad it starts becoming good over time.
The Bee Gee's Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band?
| 128 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:04:30pm |
| 129 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:05:54pm |
re: #120 Decatur Deb
There's a suggestion that it would take up to two years for this to get to the SC. The President's next SC nomination is going to be worth fighting over.
True, which is why the Admin has requested a restraining order on the imposition of the Judge's ruling (that get it pending the SC decision). Not that it isn't keeping the wingnuts from crowing that "Obamacare" is dead and buried.
Just another example of their separation from reality. These people really are dumb as rocks. And that is insulting to most rocks.
| 130 |
engineer cat Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:06:17pm |
re: #109 albusteve
Richie Hayward, of Little Feat, was like that...often he sounded like two drummers...
i once had the privilege of watching elvin jones and trying to figure out how somebody who seemed to be effortlessly wafting two drumsticks around in lazy curves could be producing all that music
| 131 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:06:38pm |
re: #122 ggt
I thought it's popularity had to do with weed and alcohol.
No doubt...... I went stoned.
I just saw Billy Jack last week..... it was a political movement statement for my generation more than just a movie......... I loved it... it had meaning.
Now I say that movie sucked donkey balls..... what a piece of crap that was.
Except for the ice cream parlor scene that is......
| 132 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:06:39pm |
re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The Bee Gee's Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band?
That was even worse than Tommy, simply because the Bee Gees weren't in Tommy.
| 133 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:07:25pm |
re: #114 palomino
Ironically he died from an overdose of the pills that were supposed to help his alcoholism.
He passed out at least once in concert. Townshend tells the story, "Someone offered Keith a quaalude. They told him to take one. He said, 'I'm Keith Moon, I'll have eight."
when I saw the, I wrote a storypost about it a couple of years ago, he was knocking over his cymbals, his stool fell over from jumping uf it etc...a roadie was right there to keep his shit from falling all over the place...at times, he just played with a controlled fury
| 134 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:08:01pm |
re: #131 Mr Pancakes
No doubt... I went stoned.
I just saw Billy Jack last week... it was a political movement statement for my generation more than just a movie... I loved it... it had meaning.
Now I say that movie sucked donkey balls... what a piece of crap that was.
Except for the ice cream parlor scene that is...
Crap, now that stupid tin soldier song is running through my head.
| 135 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:08:06pm |
re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The Bee Gee's Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band?
Luckily I never saw it.
| 136 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:09:26pm |
re: #130 engineer dog
i once had the privilege of watching elvin jones and trying to figure out how somebody who seemed to be effortlessly wafting two drumsticks around in lazy curves could be producing all that music
Just saw him in a movie called Zachariah....... he did a drum solo..... great stuff.
| 137 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:09:34pm |
re: #123 palomino
Like shooting stars, they burn bright and hot, but often flame out prematurely. RIP, rock gods.
yeah, he was a friend of mine...burned out his liver and died the day before they amputated my leg...Aug 12, last summer
| 138 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:09:38pm |
| 139 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:10:13pm |
re: #134 Alouette
Crap, now that stupid tin soldier song is running through my head.
It's a small world afterall!
/
| 140 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:10:29pm |
re: #133 albusteve
when I saw the, I wrote a storypost about it a couple of years ago, he was knocking over his cymbals, his stool fell over from jumping uf it etc...a roadie was right there to keep his shit from falling all over the place...at times, he just played with a controlled fury
You're totally right. In a lot of Who songs that start out slowly, when Moon finally kicks in he sounds like a wild animal that just escaped its cage. And I mean that in the best possible way. "Behind Blue Eyes" is one of many examples of this.
| 141 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:10:41pm |
re: #117 austin_blue
First off {{{justaminute}}}.
I'll take an Islay single-malt.
Second off, congratulations. My only worry is that the Supremes will agree with the Judge in Florida who ruled that mandatory insurance is unconstitutional and that the entire health care bill is null and void because of it.
If so, you are *so* screwed. Mandatory coverage allows insurance companies to spread the risks (and costs) over a much larger group that will bring their costs down. It's why they signed on in the first place. Actuarial tables speak truth to politicians. Unfortunately, we've got a whole bunch of bought and paid politicians.
The question now is what the Supreme Court rules the Constitution to be. Actually, it comes down to Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Kennedy. I can't imagine Justices Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Kagan and Breyer voting to oveturn Obamacare, not can I imagine Justice Scalia, Alito, and Thomas finding it constitutional.
| 142 |
justaminute Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:11:22pm |
re: #117 austin_blue
First off {{{justaminute}}}.
I'll take an Islay single-malt.
Second off, congratulations. My only worry is that the Supremes will agree with the Judge in Florida who ruled that mandatory insurance is unconstitutional and that the entire health care bill is null and void because of it.
If so, you are *so* screwed. Mandatory coverage allows insurance companies to spread the risks (and costs) over a much larger group that will bring their costs down. It's why they signed on in the first place. Actuarial tables speak truth to politicians. Unfortunately, we've got a whole bunch of bought and paid politicians.
I was already *screwed*. I don't have a choice. They are dropping my plan. I could not be covered in the state's high risk pool because I had insurance and I made too much money to qualify. What people don't understand I have 30 employees. Only 3 have insurance. It was really hard to help them since my own costs were rising dramatically. When my employee's get sick they more often or not go to an emergency room. We all pay for them if you have insurance. Your charges at a hospital are padded with their costs. So I think everyone is *screwed*,
| 143 |
Lidane Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:12:33pm |
Tea Party Judge Roger Vinson ‘Borrows Heavily’ From Family Research Council To Invalidate Health Law
But a closer read of his analysis reveals something peculiar. In fact, as Vinson himself admits in Footnote 27 (on pg. 65), he arrived at this conclusion by “borrow[ing] heavily from one of the amicus briefs filed in the case for it quite cogently and effectively sets forth the applicable standard and governing analysis of severability (doc. 123).” That brief was filed by the Family Research Council, which has been branded as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).
| 144 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:13:32pm |
| 145 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:13:44pm |
Btw, curry with Quinoa instead of rice works exceptionally well.
| 147 |
austin_blue Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:15:28pm |
re: #142 justaminute
I was already *screwed*. I don't have a choice. They are dropping my plan. I could not be covered in the state's high risk pool because I had insurance and I made too much money to qualify. What people don't understand I have 30 employees. Only 3 have insurance. It was really hard to help them since my own costs were rising dramatically. When my employee's get sick they more often or not go to an emergency room. We all pay for them if you have insurance. Your charges at a hospital are padded with their costs. So I think everyone is *screwed*,
Geez, I apologize, I misread your post. I thought you were serious about the $350 and $1,500.
Good thing we've got the best health care in the world, eh?
Good night, Lizards. I'm going to bed. This is just too fucking depressing.
| 148 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:15:44pm |
re: #141 Dark_Falcon
I'd like to hear the logic of the mandate to purchase being constitutional. Apart from the "public good" argument which is akin to the constitutionality of Manzanar, I just do not see it. They can tax for the money to spend, obviously. Like social security. But notice nobody in the government tries to force us to get an IRA.
Legal minds among us I'm listening carefully to the best argument in favor of the mandate to buy... As soon as I can hear it.
| 149 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:16:22pm |
re: #141 Dark_Falcon
The question now is what the Supreme Court rules the Constitution to be. Actually, it comes down to Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Kennedy. I can't imagine Justices Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Kagan and Breyer voting to oveturn Obamacare, not can I imagine Justice Scalia, Alito, and Thomas finding it constitutional.
If overturned, Congress would be in chaos. Republicans don't want to be the bad guys who allow rescission, pre-existing condition denials, etc. to come back. But the insurance cos. can't be weighed down with extra regulations without a new pool of customers (the 30 million+ now uninsured) because they'd actually lose money. This was the thinking behind the individual mandate; lots of Republicans were for it before they were against it. Go figure.
| 150 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:17:11pm |
re: #146 mracb
I had to
One Tin Soldier
[Video]
Oh thanks...... "Go ahead and hate your neighbor" is something you take to heart eh?
| 151 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:17:54pm |
Figured some folks here might get a kick out of this:
Breitbart, Fox Nation defend Bachmann and blame CNN for something Fox News did
January 30, 2011 12:55 pm ET by Oliver WillisWhen Fox Nation and Andrew Breitbart team up for an attack, you can start counting down the seconds until the story begins to unravel. In this edition of bumbling from the conservative media, Breitbart's Bretibart.tv has posted video of Rep. Michele Bachmann's Tea Party Express response to the State of the Union along with the claim that the off-kilter look of the video was "sabotage" by CNN. Breitbart claimed that CNN provided its own camera to the side of Bachmann, which it used for the network feed of the proceedings. For comparison, Breitbart embeded the Tea Party Express feed, which is a head-on view of Bachmann.
Turns out, in reality it was Fox's camera that was used. So now Breitbart is accusing Fox of sabotaging Bachmann's speech.
The stupidity is staggering.
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
| 152 |
Four More Tears Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:18:52pm |
re: #148 Rightwingconspirator
I'd like to hear the logic of the mandate to purchase being constitutional. Apart from the "public good" argument which is akin to the constitutionality of Manzanar, I just do not see it. They can tax for the money to spend, obviously. Like social security. But notice nobody in the government tries to force us to get an IRA.
Legal minds among us I'm listening carefully to the best argument in favor of the mandate to buy... As soon as I can hear it.
But then how do you justify mandating that hospitals treat people regardless of their ability to pay?
| 153 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:18:58pm |
re: #70 palomino
Hamilton probably didn't own slaves, he was a New Yorker.
TJ doesn't get a pass due to his debts. He could have freed them, didn't want to.
Of course there was debate: southerners supported it, northerners opposed it. Hence the repugnant 3/5 compromise.
Jay was a New Yorker, and he had some.
The Northerners who owned slaves tended to have a few household servants, rather than a plantation full. Still slaveowners.
| 154 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:19:09pm |
re: #146 mracb
Billy Jack: You know what I think I'm gonna do then? Just for the hell of it?
Mr. Posner: Tell me.
Billy Jack: I'm gonna take this right foot, and I'm gonna whop you on that side of your face...
[points to Posner's right cheek]
Billy Jack: ...and you wanna know something? There's not a damn thing you're gonna be able to do about it.
Mr. Posner: Really?
Billy Jack: Really.
[kicks Posner's right cheek, sending him to the ground]
| 155 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:19:15pm |
re: #147 austin_blue
Geez, I apologize, I misread your post. I thought you were serious about the $350 and $1,500.
Good thing we've got the best health care in the world, eh?
Good night, Lizards. I'm going to bed. This is just too fucking depressing.
Do what I do...... just lie and provide sketchy paperwork...... what's the big deal? If they call you on it, say woops and grab your chest.
| 156 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:22:45pm |
re: #152 JasonA
Individual mandates are different than companies I would just guess. Or, perhaps given a proper challenge that should fall as well, but I have little to no idea.
| 157 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:23:04pm |
re: #149 palomino
This was the thinking behind the individual mandate; lots of Republicans were for it before they were against it. Go figure.
Nixon embraced it in the 1970s, and George H.W. Bush supported the idea in the 1980s. When Dole endorsed the mandate in 1994, it was in keeping with the party's prevailing attitudes at the time. Romney embraced the mandate as governor and it was largely ignored during the '08 campaign. This didn't stop Romney from gaining plenty of conservative support, including an endorsement from the Weekly Standard.... the mandate has also been embraced by the likes of John McCain, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Bob Bennett, Tommy Thompson, Lamar Alexander, Lindsey Graham, John Thune, Scott Brown, and Judd Gregg, among others. Indeed, several of them not only endorsed the policy, they literally co-sponsored legislation that included the mandate. Are they all RINOs?
During the fight over Obama's reform proposal, Grassley told Fox News, of all outlets, "I believe that there is a bipartisan consensus to have an individual mandate" -- and there was no pushback from party leaders. This isn't ancient history; it was a year and a half ago.
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]
| 158 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:23:49pm |
re: #155 Mr Pancakes
Do what I do... just lie and provide sketchy paperwork... what's the big deal? If they call you on it, say woops and grab your chest.
It's why we respect you so.
///
| 159 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:24:09pm |
re: #148 Rightwingconspirator
I'd like to hear the logic of the mandate to purchase being constitutional. Apart from the "public good" argument which is akin to the constitutionality of Manzanar, I just do not see it. They can tax for the money to spend, obviously. Like social security. But notice nobody in the government tries to force us to get an IRA.
Legal minds among us I'm listening carefully to the best argument in favor of the mandate to buy... As soon as I can hear it.
I don't think it will survive the challenge, though it might. I'd lay the chance at 60% it gets overturned 5-4. 25% it's upheld 5-4, and 15% it is upheld 6-3 (with Roberts voting with the majority to write the opinion).
| 160 |
bluecheese Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:24:11pm |
| 161 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:25:07pm |
| 162 |
sizzleRI Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:26:15pm |
re: #159 Dark_Falcon
Roberts won't vote for it. If I were to predict Kennedy would vote to uphold Congress' authority under the Commerce Clause, 5-4 ruling.
| 163 |
albusteve Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:26:44pm |
re: #152 JasonA
But then how do you justify mandating that hospitals treat people regardless of their ability to pay?
good question...then there is this waver issue, I don't understand
[Link: www.hhs.gov...]
| 164 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:28:04pm |
re: #162 sizzleRI
Roberts won't vote for it. If I were to predict Kennedy would vote to uphold Congress' authority under the Commerce Clause, 5-4 ruling.
I'm not so sure about Kennedy. I think Roberts might vote for it, but only so he could write the opinion. If Kennedy is against it, Roberts surely will be.
| 165 |
calochortus Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:29:16pm |
Speaking as someone who has bought health insurance on the individual market for most of my adult life, I think we ought to outlaw group plans for anyone who has legislative or regulatory power over health insurance. Make them buy it as individuals and see how it works for them.
| 166 |
Mr Pancakes Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:29:35pm |
re: #161 Mr Pancakes
Thank you... I aim to please.
Wow Floral? Did you think I was serious? Tough crowd.....
| 167 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:29:40pm |
re: #141 Dark_Falcon
The question now is what the Supreme Court rules the Constitution to be. Actually, it comes down to Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Kennedy. I can't imagine Justices Sotomayor, Ginsburg, Kagan and Breyer voting to oveturn Obamacare, not can I imagine Justice Scalia, Alito, and Thomas finding it constitutional.
An argument that it will come down to Kennedy:
There is one person in the United States who will decide on this law, and that's Anthony Kennedy," Seidman said. "He's not going to be unduly influenced by what a district judge in Florida says. All of this is just scrimmaging."
Seidman said that Kennedy's previous decisions make it impossible to predict how he'll rule on the individual mandate when it comes before the Supreme Court. Kennedy has sided with the majority in favor of invalidating a law based on a "commerce clause" challenge, Seidman says, but he has also twice come through with a fairly broad reading of the "necessary and proper clause," suggesting he could go either way.
"He's likely to be affected by what the political atmosphere is at the time," Seidman said. "It's going to matter to him whether it looks like the whole law is a mess and needs to be put out of its misery, or whether it looks like it's actually starting to work."
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
.
| 168 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:30:03pm |
re: #165 calochortus
They'd just give themselves a raise to pay for it.
| 169 |
calochortus Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:30:57pm |
re: #168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If anyone would write them a policy...
| 170 |
sizzleRI Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:32:09pm |
re: #167 Talking Point Detective
"He's likely to be affected by what the political atmosphere is at the time," Seidman said. "It's going to matter to him whether it looks like the whole law is a mess and needs to be put out of its misery, or whether it looks like it's actually starting to work."
That is the part that will matter to Kennedy. He has taken on the pragmatist cloak left behind when O'Connor stepped down. Roberts is not a pragmatist and is every bit as likely to vote against the Health care bill as Scalia, Alito, and Thomas.
| 171 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:32:29pm |
re: #148 Rightwingconspirator
I'd like to hear the logic of the mandate to purchase being constitutional. Apart from the "public good" argument which is akin to the constitutionality of Manzanar, I just do not see it. They can tax for the money to spend, obviously. Like social security. But notice nobody in the government tries to force us to get an IRA.
Legal minds among us I'm listening carefully to the best argument in favor of the mandate to buy... As soon as I can hear it.
FWIW:
I just checked in with Louis Seidman, a professor of constitutional law at Georgetown University, to get his thoughts on the ruling.* Seidman skewered one of the ruling's core findings -- that the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it constitutes regulating economic inactivity. He argued that the constitution's "necessary and proper clause" explicitly provides for the regulation of anything that "has an effect" on interstate markets.
"If Congress wants to mandate that insurance companies not discriminate against people with preexisting conditions, then Congress could rationally think it's necessary to make sure that people participate in the insurance market" to make the ban on discrimination function properly, he said.
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
| 172 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:32:42pm |
Totally bad-ass.
| 173 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:33:20pm |
re: #170 sizzleRI
"He's likely to be affected by what the political atmosphere is at the time," Seidman said. "It's going to matter to him whether it looks like the whole law is a mess and needs to be put out of its misery, or whether it looks like it's actually starting to work."
That is the part that will matter to Kennedy. He has taken on the pragmatist cloak left behind when O'Connor stepped down. Roberts is not a pragmatist and is every bit as likely to vote against the Health care bill as Scalia, Alito, and Thomas.
Roberts is a lock. It's all political.
| 174 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:37:27pm |
re: #170 sizzleRI
"He's likely to be affected by what the political atmosphere is at the time," Seidman said. "It's going to matter to him whether it looks like the whole law is a mess and needs to be put out of its misery, or whether it looks like it's actually starting to work."
That is the part that will matter to Kennedy. He has taken on the pragmatist cloak left behind when O'Connor stepped down. Roberts is not a pragmatist and is every bit as likely to vote against the Health care bill as Scalia, Alito, and Thomas.
Roberts is pragmatic, but he does have a fairly strong ideological grounding, and that ground is on the right side of the aisle. That's where I'm to be found on this issue as well. I think that the individual mandate is indeed unconstitutional. I also hope the Supreme Court takes up this issue sooner rather than later. It would be best if they ruled this year, but 2012 is more likely. Though to have them rule on Obamacare in a presidential election year will set off a firestorm, whichever way Kennedy ends up coming down.
| 175 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:41:02pm |
re: #157 Talking Point Detective
Nixon embraced it in the 1970s, and George H.W. Bush supported the idea in the 1980s. When Dole endorsed the mandate in 1994, it was in keeping with the party's prevailing attitudes at the time. Romney embraced the mandate as governor and it was largely ignored during the '08 campaign. This didn't stop Romney from gaining plenty of conservative support, including an endorsement from the Weekly Standard... the mandate has also been embraced by the likes of John McCain, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Bob Bennett, Tommy Thompson, Lamar Alexander, Lindsey Graham, John Thune, Scott Brown, and Judd Gregg, among others. Indeed, several of them not only endorsed the policy, they literally co-sponsored legislation that included the mandate. Are they all RINOs?
During the fight over Obama's reform proposal, Grassley told Fox News, of all outlets, "I believe that there is a bipartisan consensus to have an individual mandate" -- and there was no pushback from party leaders. This isn't ancient history; it was a year and a half ago.
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]
And yet they still call it a far left radical plan. In hell.
| 176 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:42:46pm |
re: #162 sizzleRI
Roberts won't vote for it. If I were to predict Kennedy would vote to uphold Congress' authority under the Commerce Clause, 5-4 ruling.
Sounds right. Kennedy usually ends up being the swing vote; here he may be more likely to defer to commerce clause precedent and not rock the boat.
| 177 |
Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:43:21pm |
re: #175 palomino
And yet they still call it a far left radical plan. In hell.
All those Republicans supporting something that's in violation of the Constitution. And now they're all in favor of judicial activists over-ruling the will of the peoples' elected representatives.
And they call Democrats traitors.
| 178 |
palomino Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:48:25pm |
re: #177 Talking Point Detective
All those Republicans supporting something that's in violation of the Constitution. And now they're all in favor of judicial activists over-ruling the will of the peoples' elected representatives.
And they call Democrats traitors.
In a Machiavellian sense, they did a good job of rat fucking the Dems over the past two years. Their advantage is their relative homogeneity and their discipline. People like Snowe, Collins and Brown--all moderates--would have voted for HCR but for being whipped into shape by the old, very old boys club in the GOP.
| 179 |
sizzleRI Mon, Jan 31, 2011 7:53:19pm |
re: #174 Dark_Falcon
When I use pragmatic here I mean in a very specific Supreme court swing vote way. It is the justice who crafts majority opinions in divisive areas on non-ideological grounds, and often on tenuous legal grounds. O'Connor did it when she saved Roe in Casey using a very different argument than Blackmun used writing Roe originally. Roberts is not that kind of pragmatist. His ideology is stronger and so is his legal grounding.
| 181 |
Stanghazi Mon, Jan 31, 2011 8:47:49pm |
re: #143 Lidane
Tea Party Judge Roger Vinson ‘Borrows Heavily’ From Family Research Council To Invalidate Health Law
Lovely. I read that he actually referenced the original Boston Tea Party in his ruling.
Apparently the Supremes (Roberts) have already validated the interstate commerce aspect not too long ago.
Also, I read references that these cases are mirrored by the ones against Social Security back in the day.
| 183 |
Locker Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:36:11pm |
re: #14 Rightwingconspirator
Jerry Brown just echoed some critical fiscal conservative points in his state of the state address. Arnold made many of the same points time after time to near universal derision from the legislature. Right down to asking the people to approve taxes. Jerry is talking hard core fiscal conservatism to pull us out of the hole, which I applaud.
Will the near super majority Dem legislature respond the same? Or will they welcome these options from a fellow Dem? It will be a very telling call by them. Frankly I expect far less hostility to the cuts and taxes. But we shall see. Our backs are up to the fiscal wall. Too bad the cuts are coming so late.
The resistance to taxes is WAY higher than resistance to cuts, ask the Republican minority using the 2/3 majority rule like a stun baton. It's also hard to sell something like the cuts are coming so late when I've on 3 day a month furloughs for 2 years and have another year and a half of 1 day a month furloughs. We haven't had a raise in 13 years and give up more and more every single cycle.
This while the entire state blames the public employees pension fund for our financial trouble when it's one of the best funded programs in the whole freaking country.
You want to save this state and this country from financial death? Make the cuts that matter. Legalize and tax marijuana. Cut out all the stupid mandatory sentences and all the endless money that's dumped into our judicial and incarceration system. End all of the waste on private contractors who charge millions and millions of dollars for work that could be performed by existing state workers.
Shift the ridiculous corporate tax breaks to small business and clean energy co-ops. So much can be done but the entire country pretends that it's the left's untouchable golden cows which hold up progress.
It's a two way street.
| 184 |
thecommodore Tue, Feb 1, 2011 2:34:57am |
re: #31 Linden Arden
Great Lincoln quote. I am a Georgian and have heard the Confederates called "freedom fighters" quite often.
The irony burns.
Indeed. I have had message board discussions with some neo-confederates who claim the civil war was fought over high tarrifs, and that slavery had nothing to do with it. When I post links to various secession documents that cite slavery as the first and foremost cause, the thread dies.
| 185 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 1, 2011 8:59:09am |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
Republicans here in Illinois still keep his legacy, as do those in Indiana and Wisconsin. Some in the party may forget, but we will not. And the time will come when those other parts of the Republican Party realize their error.
Don't hold your breathe. The people who make up the base of the GOP have always hated Lincoln. They never celebrated his legacy.
| 186 |
RabbitRunner Tue, Feb 1, 2011 8:04:29pm |
I love it when one of those barely literate right wingers comes out with some ritualistic historical factoid slam about all dem slave owners , Klansmen, and Jim Crow supporters in the Democratic Party. The best way to reply is: "Unless the news is slow to get to your hollow, all those racist left in 60s & 70s and are all good teabaggers and GOP zeaots". Also, if it was God who was guiding all those slave owning founding fathers, then God didn't give a hoot about blacks, women or Indians or he would have told them all to free and take care of them too.
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