Pro-Mubarak Goons Attack Protesters

Chaos

Charles Johnson

Middle EastFebruary 2011 • Views: 22,538

Violence has erupted in Cairo as pro-Mubarak forces attack demonstrators in Tahrir Square with Molotov cocktails…

UPDATE at 2/2/11 9:57:46 am

CNN reporter Anderson Cooper describes how he and his crew were attacked:

Video

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166 comments

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:17:47am

Please include that they firebombed the Museum and the Egypt state TV is blaming it on the Muslim Brotherhood!

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:21:19am

Strongly fighting the urge to Godwin the thread here.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:21:55am

Remember: without Hosni, the MB’s will turn Egypt into another Iran, or even another Afghanistan!!!

darthstar Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:23:38am

re: #3 ralphieboy

Remember: without Hosni, the MB’s will turn Egypt into another Iran, or even another Afghanistan!!!

/

As long as they don’t turn it into a bastion of intolerance like Witchita.
//(kind of)

Seriously, it’s a shitty situation over there right now, and all we can do is shout from the stands how much each team sucks and for different reasons. Hopefully this will resolve soon and calmer heads will ultimately prevail.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:25:57am

The prospect of losing $2bn in annual aid money does not make for cool heads…

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:26:49am

By the way, any over/under bets on the timeframe as to when Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin, etc. try to claim that the Pro-Mabarak thugs are Soros puppets or SEIU-inspired/trained?

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:27:43am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

PIMF: pro-Mubarak

BishopX Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:28:46am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

Already happened….Beck was conflating Ayers, code pink and the Muslim brotherhood the other day.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:30:19am

Amazing! Eye witness:Tank commander put a pistol in his mouth to commit suicide, his soldiers stopped him & burst out crying #Jan25

Government-sanctioned mass lynch underway in Tahrir Square. #jan25 #Egypt

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:30:47am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

By the way, any over/under bets on the timeframe as to when Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin, etc. try to claim that the Pro-Mabarak thugs are Soros puppets or SEIU-inspired/trained?

You know that it hasn’t happened that way. But let me ask you, how long before a prominent left wing commentator blames the “Israel Lobby”?

Oh ya, it already happened.

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:31:33am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

By the way, any over/under bets on the timeframe as to when Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin, etc. try to claim that the Pro-Mabarak thugs are Soros puppets or SEIU-inspired/trained?

Heard a caller make a claim like that on the radio this morning.

Elbaradei is part of the same group as Soros who is a puppet of the Rothchilds.

The host cut him off and was laughing at him.

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:33:36am

Heard a correspondent on the radio saying hotel security is preventing groups trying to break in and seize reporters and their equipment.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:33:56am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Heard a caller make a claim like that on the radio this morning.

Elbaradei is part of the same group as Soros who is a puppet of the Rothchilds.

The host cut him off and was laughing at him.

Alex Jones has been pushing that bullshit for days now.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:35:58am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

By the way, any over/under bets on the timeframe as to when Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin, etc. try to claim that the Pro-Mabarak thugs are Soros puppets or SEIU-inspired/trained?

Weren’t they already claiming that the Anti-Mubarak forces were a part of the socialist-communist-athiest-muslim conspiracy (feel free to pick any or all of the descriptors depending on the right wing commenter making the claim)?

I suppose they could claim the pro-Mubarak forces are also a part of the conspiracy. It’d have as much logical consistency as everything else they claim at this point.

I’ll put a wager that Beck will be the first to claim that the pro-Mubarak forces *and* the anti-Mubarak forces are both really the same group, trying to agitate on orders from Obama and code pink in order to distract America from the Hyper inflation and military take over of America that’s happening *RIGHT NOW!!!!111!one-eleventyone!1*

Don’t forget to buy gold! because we all know when the revolution comes, gold will be worth so much to starving people.

(Do I need to mention this is hyperbole and sarcasm? I don’t think I should, but then again… there are people who really believe this, so I’d better make sure no one thinks I do)

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:36:21am

WAY too much speculation, not enough information. We just don’t know why what is happening is happening, yet.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:36:31am

When Mubarak failed to hightail it out of the country over the weekend, I was wondering what kind of ace he had up his sleeve. This is it, his own highly orchestrated mob of “protestors.”

There is something of a modern tradition in Egypt for leaders to be able to summon up huge crowds of supporters almost at will. When Nasser offered his well-deserved resignation after the Six Day War, something like a million people rallied in Cairo to beg him to stay on. Nasser, touched by their loyalty and confidence, modestly agreed to do so.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:36:38am

People are completely paranoid and frightened.

[Link: twitter.com…]
The army have left Champollion street. We have a line of men and the crowd from the other side are approaching. #jan25

The other crowd claim they’re with us. People think they’re police and aren’t letting them through. #jan25

They’re trying to convince us otherwise. I think they’re police. I hope the line holds. #jan25

Winny Spencer Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:38:26am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

By the way, any over/under bets on the timeframe as to when Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin, etc. try to claim that the Pro-Mabarak thugs are Soros puppets or SEIU-inspired/trained?

The wingnut meme seems to be that it’s the MB that is behind it.
(And behind them - Obama)

lawhawk Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:38:56am

#
1706: BBC world affairs editor John Simpson, in Tahrir Square, says: “The stand-off in Tahrir Square seems to be approaching a critical moment. Pro-Mubarak groups, determined and aggressive, have been pushing their way to the edges of Tahrir Square all afternoon. Soldiers, controlling the entrances to the square, have mostly stopped them going further in. But fights have been breaking out and large numbers of missiles - bricks, stones and bits of ironwork, have been flying through the air on both sides. There are too few soldiers here to keep any kind of order. The most they can do is prevent the big numbers of Mubarak loyalists from getting into the square, bottling them up into huge groups on the edges. The net effect of the arrival in force of groups of Mubarak supporters seems to have been to strengthen the resolve of the hard-line demonstrators to stay inside the square. The gradual drift away from the square seems to have stopped. For now, it is the only place where the demonstrators can feel more or less safe.”

lawhawk Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:39:26am

#
1700: Lara Setrakian from ABC News tweets: “This is a clear and brutal siege on what had been a peaceful protest. Sirens in the background, helicopters overhead.”

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:39:27am

RT @minazekri: RT: @7amla: youth protesters recaptured Tahrir Sq from thugs and r assuring security in it #Jan25

RT @ibnkafka: Hosni Moubarak has apparently opted for a Götterdämmerung option - I can see him ending like Ceaucescu. #Jan25

This is not going to end well for Hosni. Too bad alot of other people will hang as well.

thedopefishlives Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:42:53am

re: #19 lawhawk

I do think it’s still telling that the military hasn’t completely crushed the demonstrations. The military may or may not be in favor of the protesters, but they are definitely not puppets for Mubarak.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:44:02am

re: #15 Fozzie Bear

WAY too much speculation, not enough information. We just don’t know why what is happening is happening, yet.

Follow the right people on Twitter. Highly reliable.

See here and here, also [Link: blog.foreignpolicy.com…]

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:44:10am

re: #23 000G

That’s [Link: blog.foreignpolicy.com…]

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:44:13am

re: #21 000G

This is not going to end well for Hosni. Too bad alot of other people will hang as well.

Mubarak supporters stage brutal bid to crush Cairo uprising

The pro-Mubarak protesters, numbering tens of thousands, at first said they had no intention of initiating a confrontation. Some of them admitted that they had been brought in by bus in from the countryside and some had swapped sides in recent days, saying Mubarak had given enough concessions and he should have time to usher through political change.

They came in cars and on foot from across the city, some riding camels and horses, some wielding whips.

During the first scuffles that broke out, some on the pro-Mubarak side intervened to rescue those opponents who were being beaten, but that quickly ceased.

By late afternoon, groups of men were visible on roofs in Chapillion, a few hundred metres from the square where they hurled missiles down on those beneath them. Paving stones were broken up to be uses as weapons and, soon after six o’clock, shots from automatic weapons were heard.

Among those singled out for attack were western journalists who have been blamed by the pro-Mubarak camp for encouraging the movement against him.

The Guardian witnessed dozens of people being brought in for first aid, some with horrific injuries, at a makeshift aid station set up in the open at the entrance to the square.

As sirens rang out as night fell, fleets of ambulances could be seen moving in convoy along Ramses Street in the direction of the square.

The differences between Tuesday’s demonstration against Mubarak and today’s violence were striking. Yesterday, army and activists staffed checkpoints to prevent violence; today, Egyptian soldiers made no effort to prevent confrontation.

At one stage, they moved out of the way to allow pro-Mubarak demonstrators to reach their opponents.

Among those attacking the square were groups of armed men who appeared to be plainclothes police officers. Credible reports spoke of some of those involved in the assault in Tahrir Square having been paid by the regime.

Jadespring Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:44:23am

State TV is saying that police have been okayed to open fire and are telling people that they will if they don’t leave.

Scare tactic whether they have that direction or not.

Also hard to leave when you’re blocked in by people that want to beat the shit out of you.

justaminute Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:46:09am

It looks to me if anyone is trying to make this situation like Iran it is the Mubarak government. If he is successful in undermining the will of the people then it will only drive the people into becoming militant. The US government needs to come out as a proponent of the people loudly. Don’t be on the wrong side of history again, please.

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:46:16am

re: #10 Buck

You know that it hasn’t happened that way. But let me ask you, how long before a prominent left wing commentator blames the “Israel Lobby”?

Oh ya, it already happened.

So. One person, who happens to be a former lobbyist for AIPAC is making this assertion, and from that you’ve made the leap that it’s a Soros-fueled disinformation campaign? I’m truly impressed.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:46:29am

re: #22 thedopefishlives

I do think it’s still telling that the military hasn’t completely crushed the demonstrations. The military may or may not be in favor of the protesters, but they are definitely not puppets for Mubarak.

They could be puppets and made to be seen as if they are not, they could not be and weight their options, they could be in-fighting right now, people trying to get a feel when a mutiny will be in order.

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:47:10am

re: #28 RadicalModerate

So. One person, who happens to be a former lobbyist for AIPAC is making this assertion, and from that you’ve made the leap that it’s a Soros-fueled disinformation campaign? I’m truly impressed.

Yep. Buck can’t help himself. Even when he has good information, he shits wingnut juice all over it and ruins it.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:51:08am

State Health Ministerium reporting 1 death, 400 injured bc of today’s clashes.

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:52:04am

re: #31 000G

State Health Ministerium reporting 1 death, 400 injured bc of today’s clashes.

Can only hope the news stays that good.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:52:22am

A NDPian owned channel claims that there are agents trained in the States by Jews to topple the regime #Tahrir

thedopefishlives Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:53:16am

re: #33 000G

And there it is, folks. It’s all Da Joos’ fault.

bratwurst Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:54:17am

re: #10 Buck

how long before a prominent left wing commentator blames the “Israel Lobby”?

You might think you know who is and isn’t a “prominent left wing commentator”, but you don’t.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:54:24am

re: #34 thedopefishlives

And there it is, folks. It’s all Da Joos’ fault.

I have seen a couple of reported incidents where Mubarak thugs were accusing activists and journalists to be Zionist agents or spies.

Insanity.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:55:09am

re: #33 000G

That channel is Mehwar, btw.

Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:55:36am

re: #33 000G

Yeah, this is why populism in Muslim countries is a problem. The easiest gimmick is to blame the Jews and the US. Since everybody does it the result is extremist politics and conspiracy theories. The most antisemitic side wins the PR war.

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:56:08am

re: #33 000G

Yeah, bringing down the one neighbor who they actually have a real peace treaty with is obviously the Zionist agenda here.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:56:25am

Wording is important. Everything is FILLED with propaganda right now. Notes the Sudanese thinker:

CNN: ProMubarak prot. clash w/ anti-mubarak prot. AJE: Pro-Mubarak prot. clash w/ groups accused of being state sec. Diferent covrage #Jan25

Talking Point Detective Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:56:30am

This is why we shouldn’t make supporting oppressive dictators a fundamental strategic element of our foreign policy.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:57:07am

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Yeah, this is why populism in Muslim countries is a problem. The easiest gimmick is to blame the Jews and the US. Since everybody does it the result is extremist politics and conspiracy theories. The most antisemitic side wins the PR war.

I think that that nasty aspect of populism is NOT restricted to Muslim countries.

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:57:16am

re: #33 000G

That’s just retarded. Why would american Jews try to topple the biggest arab ally of Israel in the region.

Looks like Mubarak has decided to go full retard with this and create as much chaos as possible.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:57:31am

re: #42 000G

Case in point: Alex Jones’ audience.

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:58:04am

re: #42 000G

I think that that nasty aspect of populism is NOT restricted to Muslim countries.

Nor is it restricted to Jews. It’s part of a broader tactic of blaming the “other”. We are no strangers to that tactic here in the US.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:58:51am

lol, cynical Sandmonkey can see the upside of gubmint being so stupid out in the open:

Mehwar is claiming protesters are trained in the US by Jews . NICE! #JAN25

mikefromArlington Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:58:55am

Wonder if Mubarack is being encouraged by Isreal and the Neo-Cons here in America to crush the rebellion.

lawhawk Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:59:01am

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Decades of propaganda blaming Israel/Zionists/Jooos for all that ails these countries has fed into the paranoia/agitprop and the regimes use it as a reflexive crutch - claiming that the opposition is nothing more than a Zionist ploy. Opponents to the regimes use it as the Zionists are propping up the regime.

The truth? I wish I got a raise in my Zionist paycheck, because all this power and control is hard work. /

thedopefishlives Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:59:07am

re: #41 Talking Point Detective

This is why we shouldn’t make supporting oppressive dictators a fundamental strategic element of our foreign policy.

You’d think we’d have learned our lesson meddling in the Caribbean and Latin America.

Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 2, 2011 9:59:32am

See the update above — video of Anderson Cooper describing being attacked.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:00:21am

re: #50 Charles

See the update above — video of Anderson Cooper describing being attacked.

Please also include news about the Museum.

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:00:24am

re: #46 000G

lol, cynical Sandmonkey can see the upside of gubmint being so stupid out in the open:

It really is an upside. It exposes paranoia for what it is. The protesters know why they are there, and it has jack shit to do with the US, and everything to do with food prices, political repression, and unemployment.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:00:30am

Sort of a joke: the Red antisemites blame Jews because a Jewish woman shot Lenin. The White antisemites blame Jews because she didn’t kill him.

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:01:04am

re: #28 RadicalModerate

So. One person, who happens to be a former lobbyist for AIPAC is making this assertion, and from that you’ve made the leap that it’s a Soros-fueled disinformation campaign? I’m truly impressed.

This isn’t just some random guy. He was hired and paid to write that stuff. And it is not just some random website, it is Media Matters…

This isn’t like cherry picking a comment/Diary at DKOS, or HuffPo. AND you might notice that at those sites, where he published his anti semitic rage, no one is objecting to it in the comments. No one (on the left) is calling him (or media matters, or TPM) on it.

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:01:12am

re: #47 mikefromArlington

Wonder if Mubarack is being encouraged by Isreal and the Neo-Cons here in America to crush the rebellion.

A couple serious blogs have noted that last generation’s neo-con statements are generally backing the anti-Mus.

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:01:39am

Yemeni president pledges not to seek another term

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:02:12am

It’s time for aliens to attack the planet. People seem to need an enemy to function.

I can’t think of anything else that would make everybody stop this bullshit and realize we are all in this together.

ZORGONS, SMITE US NOW !!!

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:02:20am

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yemeni president pledges not to seek another term

He’s been known to do that before. He’s just trying to calm any possible unrests in advance. Prophylactic lying.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:03:30am

re: #57 Fozzie Bear

And if by some bad luck Zorgons turn out to be antisemites?

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:03:49am

re: #57 Fozzie Bear

ZORGONS, SMITE US NOW !!!

They would, but they’re scared of what the Jews might do to them.
/

justaminute Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:04:38am

Conspiracy theories are widespread in the ME. When one does not have fact based reporting that the people feel they can trust it is easy to spread. If we can not get our media to become more fact based we are on the same path. After all, many of the Egyptian people’s complaints (unemployment,wage disparity) are the same ones we have. Could our own government get paranoid if the Egyptian people are successful against their government? Just wondering.

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:04:58am

re: #59 Sergey Romanov

And if by some bad luck Zorgons turn out to be antisemites?

Then they get the next block of F18s.

lostlakehiker Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:05:16am

re: #47 mikefromArlington

Wonder if Mubarack is being encouraged by Isreal and the Neo-Cons here in America to crush the rebellion.

Oh, yeah. That’s so likely. First, why would Israel [not “Isreal”] encourage Mubarak to attempt something he probably can’t achieve? Second, why would Israel imagine that Mubarak would think that they’re giving good advice he should follow? Third, why would “Neo-cons” here in the U.S. have any audience with Mubarak? If he listened to anybody in the U.S. it would be our government, not some out-of-power sideshow.

So, I’ll translate your “question”.

[The Jews are behind it. They always are, because they’re the secret cause of everything.]

Bah! No, they aren’t. This is scary for Israel, but it’s beyond her reach to meddle. Everybody’s standing waaay back, trying to not get burned.

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:05:53am

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Yeah, this is why populism in Muslim countries is a problem. The easiest gimmick is to blame the Jews and the US. Since everybody does it the result is extremist politics and conspiracy theories. The most antisemitic side wins the PR war.

and they always have the UN to back them up…I hate the UN

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:06:05am

The Tweet comments on the antisemitic bullshit on Mehwar are hilarious.

Mehwar is definitely trolling us. #Jan25

Well, one good thing came out of that Mehwar interview. I guess we all needed that comic relief.

I especially loved this obviously bought-and-paid-for user (you can recognize them by having Egyptian flags and emblembs as avatars)

Al Mehwar TV coverage is amazing. Suspense (yes) but full of #patriotism. #Egypt #Jan25

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:06:25am

re: #62 Decatur Deb

Then they get the next block of F18s.

Or we could hack their systems

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:07:52am

re: #64 albusteve

and they always have the UN to back them up…I hate the UN

You know who else hated the United Nations?

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:08:29am

re: #61 justaminute

Conspiracy theories are widespread in the ME. When one does not have fact based reporting that the people feel they can trust it is easy to spread. If we can not get our media to become more fact based we are on the same path. After all, many of the Egyptian people’s complaints (unemployment,wage disparity) are the same ones we have. Could our own government get paranoid if the Egyptian people are successful against their government? Just wondering.

an historic Arab tradition…ingrained into the culture, and the Jewish threat is the granddaddy of them all

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:09:35am

re: #67 Decatur Deb

You know who else hated the United Nations?

Charlie…a real astute guy

mikefromArlington Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:12:02am

re: #63 lostlakehiker

So, I’ll translate your “question”.

[The Jews are behind it. They always are, because they’re the secret cause of everything.]

Fuck off dipshit.

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:12:04am

re: #69 albusteve

Charlie…a real astute guy

Victor Charlie? I was thinking of the way our allied forces used the term late in WWII.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:12:38am

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:12:50am

“The Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet said two of its reporters were attacked by a mob in Cairo and held for several hours by Egyptian soldiers who accused them of being spies for Israel.”

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:13:19am

re: #70 mikefromArlington

I think you’ve stumbled into a sarc-deficiency zone.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:13:23am

Too little, too late:

The United States deplores and condemns the violence that is taking place in Egypt, and we are deeply concerned about attacks on the media and peaceful demonstrators. We repeat our strong call for restraint.

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:13:37am

storm alert is over in ABQ….
2in of snow and the temp is back up to 9deg
wookoo!….I survived!

Alexzander Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:14:01am

Gibbs talking now…

justaminute Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:14:33am

re: #68 albusteve

an historic Arab tradition…ingrained into the culture, and the Jewish threat is the granddaddy of them all

Well, it is certainly picking up here in the US. Over the last 10 years I can’t tell you how many times “old, white guys” have given us crazy video recordings at the restaurant.

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:14:50am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

Victor Charlie? I was thinking of the way our allied forces used the term late in WWII.

well, we were united nations back then

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:15:54am

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

“The Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet said two of its reporters were attacked by a mob in Cairo and held for several hours by Egyptian soldiers who accused them of being spies for Israel.”

yeah, right….good use of your ‘spies’…toss em into a street fight?

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:16:41am

re: #10 Buck

You know that it hasn’t happened that way. But let me ask you, how long before a prominent left wing commentator blames the “Israel Lobby”?

Oh ya, it already happened.

I think the column is seriously wrong-headed. However, Beck has, actually, already blamed Ayers and Code Pink, which is not wrong-headed, it’s just demented.

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:17:00am

re: #75 000G

Too little, too late:

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]

why so?….should we have invaded instead?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:17:31am

The confiscated thugs have confessed that they were paid 50 LE to come and protest pro-Mubarak by central forces

Alexzander Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:18:23am

Harper is going to Washington?

Kragar (Antichrist ) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:18:45am

re: #83 000G

I can see no possible way this could backfire on Mubarak.
/

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:18:52am

re: #43 Fozzie Bear

That’s just retarded. Why would american Jews try to topple the biggest arab ally of Israel in the region.

Looks like Mubarak has decided to go full retard with this and create as much chaos as possible.

It’s, unfortunately, fairly easy to sell just about any kind of lie about Jews to a mob of Egyptians.

bratwurst Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:18:58am

re: #54 Buck

This isn’t just some random guy. He was hired and paid to write that stuff. And it is not just some random website, it is Media Matters…

I know this is likely to blow you mind…but it is possible to dislike and distrust AIPAC and still be Jewish and a Zionist.

I am not at all familiar with this particular “prominent left wing commentator” and only share a few of the conclusions he makes in the link you provide. I am, however, sure of one thing: you and this commentator are cut from the same cloth. Both of you seem unnaturally concerned with scoring political points off of a situation that has potentially dire consequences for people throughout the region.

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:19:01am

re: #54 Buck

This isn’t just some random guy. He was hired and paid to write that stuff. And it is not just some random website, it is Media Matters…

This isn’t like cherry picking a comment/Diary at DKOS, or HuffPo. AND you might notice that at those sites, where he published his anti semitic rage, no one is objecting to it in the comments. No one (on the left) is calling him (or media matters, or TPM) on it.

A Jewish guy who was an AIPAC lobbyist for 4 years has an unflattering opinion of AIPAC, and thinks the threat from Iran was overblown != an anti-semitic rage. Is it impossible to criticize the state of Israel and US policies regarding Israel without being called an anti-semite?

I don’t agree with the article at Media Matters but I don’t see antisemitism there, either. The state != the Jewish people.

I’m sure i’ll collect a thousand downdings for this one, but seriously, this is paranoia. Clearly, i’m just a paid Soros shill. /

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:19:30am

re: #82 albusteve

No, not invasion.

But there is no way WH officials do not know what is going on here.

They could have and should have called those who are responsible for this menace out.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:21:17am

re: #53 Sergey Romanov

Like the old Soviet joke:

A line waiting outside a butcher’s shop, awaiting a shipment. The director comes out and announces: “Our shipment has been cut, no Jews will be served, you can all go home.”

So they leave

A bit later he comes out and announces: “We are getting even less than expected: only ethnic Russians will be served.”

So all the Ukrainians, Tatars and Kazahks leave.

He comes out again: “We are getting even less than expected: only reisdents of Moscow will be served”.

All the non-Muscovites leave

Finally he comes out and announces: “There will be no shipment today, you can all go home”.

At which point one of the people in line remarks, “See? Jews always get preferential treatment!”

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:21:30am

re: #54 Buck

This isn’t just some random guy. He was hired and paid to write that stuff. And it is not just some random website, it is Media Matters…

This isn’t like cherry picking a comment/Diary at DKOS, or HuffPo. AND you might notice that at those sites, where he published his anti semitic rage, no one is objecting to it in the comments. No one (on the left) is calling him (or media matters, or TPM) on it.

Can you give me an example of ‘anti-semitic rage’ from this guy? Not seeing it in that column.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:21:50am

hahahaha:

The Girl on Mehwar is beautiful. So emotional. Propaganda at its best. #jan25

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:22:10am

re: #89 000G

No, not invasion.

But there is no way WH officials do not know what is going on here.

They could have and should have called those who are responsible for this menace out.

why? what good would that have done?…you were not satisfied with BOs comments yesterday?….you see no benefit to try and preserve the point of view of not taking sides?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:22:15am

re: #92 000G

That would have been [Link: twitter.com…]

Note: links WITHING blockquotes, not around!

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:22:35am

Catchy.

Youtube Video

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:22:59am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you give me an example of ‘anti-semitic rage’ from this guy? Not seeing it in that column.

Buck is just shitting in the well and complaining about the taste of the water.

I’m having a hard time seeing a Jewish former AIPAC lobbyist as a rabid anti-semite.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:24:04am

re: #87 bratwurst

I know this is likely to blow you mind…but it is possible to dislike and distrust AIPAC and still be Jewish and a Zionist.

I am not at all familiar with this particular “prominent left wing commentator” and only share a few of the conclusions he makes in the link you provide. I am, however, sure of one thing: you and this commentator are cut from the same cloth. Both of you seem unnaturally concerned with scoring political points off of a situation that has potentially dire consequences for people throughout the region.

Hell, I demonstrate for Israel with a bunch of local activists, and about half our group gripes every time we have to cover the AIPAC events, because they hate AIPAC, but they hate the people screaming lies about AIPAC even worse.

Middle-Eastern politics makes for some extremely weird bedfellows at times.

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:24:21am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you give me an example of ‘anti-semitic rage’ from this guy? Not seeing it in that column.

rage doesn’t mean what it used to….it’s just a catch phrase now, diminished in definition, such as disagreeing with BO

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:24:25am

re: #93 albusteve

you see no benefit to try and preserve the point of view of not taking sides?

Nope. And it’s first and foremost not about taking sides but acknowledging reality, here. And in reality, too, the US is siding with Egypt. Billions of dollars of foreign aid in siding, actually.

100

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:24:45am

re: #90 ralphieboy

Like the old Soviet joke:

A line waiting outside a butcher’s shop, awaiting a shipment. The director comes out and announces: “Our shipment has been cut, no Jews will be served, you can all go home.”

So they leave

A bit later he comes out and announces: “We are getting even less than expected: only ethnic Russians will be served.”

So all the Ukrainians, Tatars and Kazahks leave.

He comes out again: “We are getting even less than expected: only reisdents of Moscow will be served”.

All the non-Muscovites leave

Finally he comes out and announces: “There will be no shipment today, you can all go home”.

At which point one of the people in line remarks, “See? Jews always get preferential treatment!”

I was going to post that!!! But in my version, it’s bananas!!

101

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:25:47am

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I was going to post that!!! But in my version, it’s bananas!!

Bananas DO always get preferential treatment. ///

102

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:25:55am

re: #96 Fozzie Bear

Buck is just shitting in the well and complaining about the taste of the water.

I’m having a hard time seeing a Jewish former AIPAC lobbyist as a rabid anti-semite.

Perhaps too enamored of the power of AIPAC, though. The whole organization has some issues with delusions of grandeur, and apparently this applies to ex-AIPACers as well.

103

Jadespring Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:26:25am

re: #89 000G

No, not invasion.

But there is no way WH officials do not know what is going on here.

They could have and should have called those who are responsible for this menace out.

Well you don’t know what is happening behind closed doors. Public statements during a situation like this are not necessarily an indication of everything that’s going on.

104

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:27:06am

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I was going to post that!!! But in my version, it’s bananas!!

You means that bananas always get preferential treatment?

105

MarkAM Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:27:54am

From the BBC feed at 18:11:

Within the last half hour, the heavy battle outside the Egyptian museum between pro- and anti-government demonstrators has ended. Rather unexpectedly, the confrontation seems to have been won by the pro-democracy protesters

106

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:28:15am

re: #99 000G

Nope. And it’s first and foremost not about taking sides but acknowledging reality, here. And in reality, too, the US is siding with Egypt. Billions of dollars of foreign aid in siding, actually.

you are not answering my questions….anyway why would you say there is no way the WH doesn’t know what’s going on here?…what is what?…of course they know…I don’t see the US as particularly “siding with Egypt” as in the govt…do you doubt BOs words for some reason?…how has he denied reality?

107

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:29:13am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the column is seriously wrong-headed. However, Beck has, actually, already blamed Ayers and Code Pink, which is not wrong-headed, it’s just demented.

Code Pink is not shy about its support for Hamas or many other terrorists. Code Pink founder Jodie Evans was involved with the flotilla.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

Also during the Gaza flotilla incident, the three helped to stir riots after the Egyptian government refused to allow a large number of protesters to enter neighboring Gaza.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

HOWEVER, pointing out that there is a connection, and they were on the wrong side of the issue is not demented.

108

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:29:22am

re: #106 albusteve

You are putting words in my mouth.

109

recusancy Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:29:40am

re: #89 000G

No, not invasion.

But there is no way WH officials do not know what is going on here.

They could have and should have called those who are responsible for this menace out.

How the White House Approached Egyptian Turmoil

110

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:29:52am

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps too enamored of the power of AIPAC, though. The whole organization has some issues with delusions of grandeur, and apparently this applies to ex-AIPACers as well.

I agree. I just think it’s bullshit that it’s impossible to level any criticism against AIPAC and the administration of the Israeli government without some dickhead popping up and screaming “JEW HATER!!!!”.

It poisons the discourse, and frankly, enables any corruption that may exist in our relationship with Israel. When there is that much money involved, OF COURSE there is some back-room-dealing. It’s in our best interests, and Israel’s, to expose it. Assholes like Buck only make it harder.

And yes, I think that article on MM is wrong about Iran. But that doesn’t make it bourne of anti-semitism. It just makes it wrong.

111

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:31:08am

re: #54 Buck

This isn’t just some random guy. He was hired and paid to write that stuff. And it is not just some random website, it is Media Matters…

This isn’t like cherry picking a comment/Diary at DKOS, or HuffPo. AND you might notice that at those sites, where he published his anti semitic rage, no one is objecting to it in the comments. No one (on the left) is calling him (or media matters, or TPM) on it.

Ah, yes. The “Soros sock-puppet” Media Matters - who according to guys like Beck is an American version of Goebbels.

You might want to read that article that Charles wrote about the tribalism of the right wing. Media Matters is a prime example of this phenomenon - the founder (David Brock) was a Brent Bozell-hired attack dog who got fed up with the hysteria and fact distortion of the right wing, and they turned on him rather viciously. Never mind that the vast majority of MM’s exposure of rightwing media is actually them compiling audio and video of their own rhetoric - and every bit of it sourced.

112

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:32:33am

re: #107 Buck

He didn’t just point it out, Buck. He claimed they were responsible.

113

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:32:42am

re: #107 Buck

Code Pink is not shy about its support for Hamas or many other terrorists. Code Pink founder Jodie Evans was involved with the flotilla.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

Also during the Gaza flotilla incident, the three helped to stir riots after the Egyptian government refused to allow a large number of protesters to enter neighboring Gaza.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

HOWEVER, pointing out that there is a connection, and they were on the wrong side of the issue is not demented.

Stay on that Code Pink thing. Don’t let go and don’t let other issues divert you. CP is the heart of the left-wing beast. When you have utterly crushed them, balance will be restored.

114

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:32:44am

re: #107 Buck

Code Pink is not shy about its support for Hamas or many other terrorists. Code Pink founder Jodie Evans was involved with the flotilla.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

Also during the Gaza flotilla incident, the three helped to stir riots after the Egyptian government refused to allow a large number of protesters to enter neighboring Gaza.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

HOWEVER, pointing out that there is a connection, and they were on the wrong side of the issue is not demented.

Saying the following:

The lizards who were outraged by Beck comments on Soros… well here is Soros funded Media Matters saying it outright. Lizards should probably focus on what MJ Rosenberg at Media Matters is saying about all Jews. As should Talking Points Memo and anyone who supports them. Why TPM?

… is not only completely unwarranted, but ridiculous. (emphasis mine)

115

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:32:56am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you give me an example of ‘anti-semitic rage’ from this guy? Not seeing it in that column.

Well, I point it out very clearly on the LGF Page/diary… what ever they are called.

However if you and Fozzie don’t think “Israel Lobby controls congress to the detriment of the USA” is anti semitic, then you don’t have a problem with this guy.

116

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:33:50am

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Stay on that Code Pink thing. Don’t let go and don’t let other issues divert you. CP is the heart of the left-wing beast. When you have utterly crushed them, balance will be restored.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

117

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:34:16am

re: #107 Buck

Code Pink is not shy about its support for Hamas or many other terrorists. Code Pink founder Jodie Evans was involved with the flotilla.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

Also during the Gaza flotilla incident, the three helped to stir riots after the Egyptian government refused to allow a large number of protesters to enter neighboring Gaza.

Pointing that out is not saying that they are to take the blame for the protests in Egypt.

HOWEVER, pointing out that there is a connection, and they were on the wrong side of the issue is not demented.

Except that is not what was said.

Look, all the nutbars are taking their expected sides. I’ve got some left-wing crap about this in my inbox now that’s perfectly surreal. But what you posted isn’t surreal.

118

albusteve Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:34:58am

re: #108 000G

You are putting words in my mouth.

what words were those?….why are you u8nhappy with our response to this uprising?…you always seem to have better ideas than the feds and are critical of how it’s being handled….why should BO out the people responsible for the uprising?….isn’t it common knowledge how this has gone down?

119

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:37:40am

re: #118 albusteve

what words were those?

Example: “how has he denied reality” – never said that.

And he is not denying it but seems to be ignoring it. And the people of Egypt are worse off for it simply because if you do not stand up to thugs, they continue to be thugs.

why should BO out the people responsible for the uprising?…isn’t it common knowledge how this has gone down?

Are you serious?

120

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:38:07am

re: #110 Fozzie Bear

I agree. I just think it’s bullshit that it’s impossible to level any criticism against AIPAC and the administration of the Israeli government without some dickhead popping up and screaming “JEW HATER!!!”.

Of course, on the other side of that page, there’s the part where people fret that if they criticize the policies of the government of Israel they’ll be called anti-Semites. So you ask them to criticize a policy, and they say that Israel should stop the genocide of the Palestinian people.

//I deal with EVERYONE. It gets old after a while.

121

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:38:13am

re: #111 RadicalModerate

Ah, yes. The “Soros sock-puppet” Media Matters - who according to guys like Beck is an American version of Goebbels.

You might want to read that article that Charles wrote about the tribalism of the right wing.

I read it. I thought it interesting that no one can see the same tribalism on the left. Other than to scream MBF, or Et Tu…

122

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:40:10am

re: #121 Buck

Maybe that’s because you’ve got a lot of people on the ‘left’ here, like SFZ and myself, who find this guy’s views stupid as fuck— while not saying that he’s an antisemite, as you claimed— while you constantly, tribally, defend Beck no matter what he does, and even defend a GOP bill designed to block abortions for rape victims who didn’t fight back.

That’s tribalism.

123

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:41:12am

re: #115 Buck

Well, I point it out very clearly on the LGF Page/diary… what ever they are called.

However if you and Fozzie don’t think “Israel Lobby controls congress to the detriment of the USA” is anti semitic, then you don’t have a problem with this guy.

I think he overstates his case, and I agree he veers toward an area that’s been heavily mined by anti-Semites. ‘Anti-Semitic rage’, I think, is an serious overstatement.

I have no idea why you think I don’t have a problem with this guy. I think his column is basically tripe, and I’ve said so.

124

Jadespring Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:42:39am

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Stay on that Code Pink thing. Don’t let go and don’t let other issues divert you. CP is the heart of the left-wing beast. When you have utterly crushed them, balance will be restored.

I’m going to put on this old code pink shirt I have so he has someone to crush.

I was never part of code pink though. Didn’t even know who or what they were when I got it. It was just a funky shirt that was pink and had a saying on it I liked.

So I guess the shirt can at least be crushed.

125

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:43:05am

re: #121 Buck

I read it. I thought it interesting that no one can see the same tribalism on the left. Other than to scream MBF, or Et Tu…

Oh, it decidedly exists. The far left, although riven with divisions, does have a similar pack mentality.

That doesn’t make what’s happening on the more mainstreamed right wing any less irritating or frightening, sadly.

126

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:44:59am

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he overstates his case, and I agree he veers toward an area that’s been heavily mined by anti-Semites. ‘Anti-Semitic rage’, I think, is an serious overstatement.

I have no idea why you think I don’t have a problem with this guy. I think his column is basically tripe, and I’ve said so.

Exactly. When somebody writes a shitty column about the Israeli government and AIPAC, that doesn’t make the article motivated by hatred of “all Jews”. Maybe, just maybe, the guy can be wrong without being motivated by self-hatred? (I mean seriously, the guy is a prominent Jewish activist, and certainly no enemy of the Jewish people. He’s clearly not a big fan of AIPAC. That’ not exactly rare among American Jews.

127

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:45:47am

re: #124 Jadespring

I’m going to put on this old code pink shirt I have so he has someone to crush.

I was never part of code pink though. Didn’t even know who or what they were when I got it. It was just a funky shirt that was pink and had a saying on it I liked.

So I guess the shirt can at least be crushed.

we broke Pink’s code a long time ago. It stands for “Impotent Fury”.

128

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:46:35am

re: #126 Fozzie Bear

There’s also a hard-right group of Israelis who think that the US should stop funding Israel, because they think that the US has too much influence over Israel.

129

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:48:10am

re: #128 Obdicut

There’s also a hard-right group of Israelis who think that the US should stop funding Israel, because they think that the US has too much influence over Israel.

Rand barPaulians.

130

recusancy Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:48:23am

re: #126 Fozzie Bear

Exactly. When somebody writes a shitty column about the Israeli government and AIPAC, that doesn’t make the article motivated by hatred of “all Jews”. Maybe, just maybe, the guy can be wrong without being motivated by self-hatred? (I mean seriously, the guy is a prominent Jewish activist, and certainly no enemy of the Jewish people. He’s clearly not a big fan of AIPAC. That’ not exactly rare among American Jews.

There is a large generational gap in American Jewish thinking on this.

131

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:48:28am

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he overstates his case, and I agree he veers toward an area that’s been heavily mined by anti-Semites. ‘Anti-Semitic rage’, I think, is an serious overstatement.

I have no idea why you think I don’t have a problem with this guy. I think his column is basically tripe, and I’ve said so.

I said IF you don’t think “Israel Lobby controls congress to the detriment of the USA” is anti semitic, THEN you don’t have a problem. If you only think it is tripe, then you can just go on your way and ignore it.

I think it is antisemitic. The title of the TPM version was “Thank AIPAC For Placing USA On Wrong Side In Egypt”. That is exactly saying what I think is pretty serious antisemitism.

132

Jadespring Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:49:16am

re: #127 Decatur Deb

we broke Pink’s code a long time ago. It stands for “Impotent Fury”.

Is it okay if I still like the shirt though? :)

133

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:50:01am

re: #128 Obdicut

There’s also a hard-right group of Israelis who think that the US should stop funding Israel, because they think that the US has too much influence over Israel.

I wasn’t aware of that angle, but honestly, can anyone even deny that the US has huge influence over Israel? It seems obvious to me. Criticism of how we wield that influence is fair game, imo.

(And no, I don’t agree with the article, especially in regards to Iran. I also think the author is motivated by his assessment of geopolitics, not antisemitism.)

134

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:50:50am

re: #132 Jadespring

Is it okay if I still like the shirt though? :)

Sure, just put your iron on “Synthetics” and crush it a little.

135

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 10:56:10am

re: #131 Buck

But why do you think it’s anti-semitic, Buck? It’s a criticism by a Jewish lobbyist who used to work for AIPAC of AIPAC. It’s a stupid criticism, that definitely treads into territory well-loved by anti-semites.

That doesn’t make it anti-semitic.

136

scogind Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:03:12am

re: #50 Charles

Anderson Cooper becoming the story, once again. By the looks of the damage to his face he is lucky to be alive.
///

137

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:11:54am

Well, minimizing this just because it comes from the mainstream left is frightening to me. Basically I hear you saying… It’s not anti semitism, it just sounds exactly like antisemitism.

This guy is NOT just criticizing AIPAC. He is not just criticizing Israel policies.

He is saying straight out that AIPAC controls the USA to the detriment of the USA. Not “is trying”, or “thinks it can”… but actually does….

He is calling Hamas terrorists Revolutionaries. I don’t know… that used to be serious around here. People who are dedicated to killing jews are not revolutionaries to me.

He is revising the history of the Camp David accords and saying it was Israel, not Arafat that killed it. Which is not criticizing Israel policy, it is made up “Blame the jews” stuff.

I find it hard to imagine that lizards don’t see that as anti semitic. But then again Media Matters and TPM doesn’t have a problem with it….

138

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:17:17am

re: #137 Buck

Well, minimizing this just because it comes from the mainstream left is frightening to me. Basically I hear you saying… It’s not anti semitism, it just sounds exactly like antisemitism.

This guy is NOT just criticizing AIPAC. He is not just criticizing Israel policies.

He is saying straight out that AIPAC controls the USA to the detriment of the USA. Not “is trying”, or “thinks it can”… but actually does…

He is calling Hamas terrorists Revolutionaries. I don’t know… that used to be serious around here. People who are dedicated to killing jews are not revolutionaries to me.

He is revising the history of the Camp David accords and saying it was Israel, not Arafat that killed it. Which is not criticizing Israel policy, it is made up “Blame the jews” stuff.

I find it hard to imagine that lizards don’t see that as anti semitic. But then again Media Matters and TPM doesn’t have a problem with it…

Quote the article where he says that AIPAC “controls congress” or “controls the USA”. Seriously. Just copy and paste quote it.

139

recusancy Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:18:23am

re: #137 Buck

I see you attacking Soros and Rosenberg and TPM. That seems pretty anti-semitic, attacking two Jews, not to mention TPM is owned and run by Josh Marshal, also Jewish. Why are you such an anti-semite???

140

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:18:51am

re: #137 Buck

It’s not the mainstream left.

He is saying straight out that AIPAC controls the USA to the detriment of the USA. Not “is trying”, or “thinks it can”… but actually does…

Nope,. At most, he’s saying that AIPAC controls US policy towards Israel.

He is calling Hamas terrorists Revolutionaries. I don’t know… that used to be serious around here. People who are dedicated to killing jews are not revolutionaries to me.

That’s a lie. He’s not calling Hamas revolutionaries. He’s calling those revolting against Mubarek revolutionaries.

He is revising the history of the Camp David accords and saying it was Israel, not Arafat that killed it. Which is not criticizing Israel policy, it is made up “Blame the jews” stuff.

What? Saying that Israel killed it, not Araft, is not blaming Israel, but Jews in general? What?

I find it hard to imagine that lizards don’t see that as anti semitic. But then again Media Matters and TPM doesn’t have a problem with it…

I don’t think ‘anti-semitic’ is the be-all and end-all descriptor. This guy’s views are palpably idiotic, and he’s a clear partisan shill.

However, it doesn’t in the least compare to Beck’s rehabilitation of anti-semitic writers, his 8 of 9 villains being Jewish, and the rest of the antisemitism for which he’s been rightly called out.

And for which you’ve defended him, vigorously.

Oh, just a reminder to everyone: Buck uses some sort of software to block my comments and refuses to read them. He’s done so ever since I called him out for his defense of Palin’s use of the term ‘blood libel’.

He considers me a ‘bully’, you see.

141

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:19:21am

re: #139 recusancy

I see you attacking Soros and Rosenberg and TPM. That seems pretty anti-semitic, attacking two Jews, not to mention TPM is owned and run by Josh Marshal, also Jewish. Why are you such an anti-semite???

Didn’t you hear? According to FOX, Jews on the left don’t count.

142

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:20:00am

re: #137 Buck

Buck, correct me if I’m wrong, but he is not necessarily saying that AIPAC “controls” the Congress and policy. AIPAC is a lobbyist organization, by definition it tries to influence policy, like all such orgs do. And it’s a simple fact that AIPAC is a very successful and influential lobbying org, e.g. presidential candidates always speak there etc. So although he says it inartfully, he is blaming the AIPAC lobbying efforts - rightly or wrongly, without claiming the “control”.

143

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:24:04am

re: #140 Obdicut

I don’t think ‘anti-semitic’ is the be-all and end-all descriptor. This guy’s views are palpably idiotic, and he’s a clear partisan shill.

I’ve never “seriously” read him, but I’ve seen one or two pieces by him at TP. Immediately noticed his vitriolic tone, after which it was hard to take him very seriously.

144

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:25:01am

re: #138 Fozzie Bear

Quote the article where he says that AIPAC “controls congress” or “controls the USA”. Seriously. Just copy and paste quote it.

Wow? Really? How about the title of the TPM version “Thank AIPAC For Placing USA On Wrong Side In Egypt”

How about the line “the lobby and the ever-faithful Congress blocked Carter’s efforts to push it through.”

Need more? Does two count?

145

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:27:08am

re: #144 Buck

Again, those say, at most, that AIPAC controls the US’s policy towards Israel. Not controls, in general.

146

Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:30:00am

re: #144 Buck

Wow? Really? How about the title of the TPM version “Thank AIPAC For Placing USA On Wrong Side In Egypt”

How about the line “the lobby and the ever-faithful Congress blocked Carter’s efforts to push it through.”

Need more? Does two count?

I’m sorry, I still don’t see any quotes that substantiate your claim. Maybe you should add me to your nonexistant LGF-post-blocking program?

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Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:34:02am

re: #146 Fozzie Bear

I’m sorry, I still don’t see any quotes that substantiate your claim. Maybe you should add me to your nonexistant LGF-post-blocking program?

Well somehow when Professor Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer said it people around here understood it to be antisemitic.

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Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:43:41am

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

So although he says it inartfully, he is blaming the AIPAC lobbying efforts - rightly or wrongly, without claiming the “control”.

“Thank AIPAC For Placing USA On Wrong Side In Egypt”.

First it is completely not true, and completely unsubstantiated. That is important. It isn’t just an opinion. It is not backed up by ANY facts at all. Just a general conspiracy that he shares with other antisemites.

BUT the first paragraph seems so very clear to me:

If one needs additional proof that the “pro-Israel” lobby and the policies it dictates to US policymakers are bad for both the U.S. and Israel, look no further than what is happening in Egypt.

The pro israel lobby

dictates policies

to US policymakers. AND it is bad policy that ultimately will hurt the US.

Am I really so far off to read “dictates” as “control”?

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Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:45:42am

re: #148 Buck

Just a general conspiracy that he shares with ~~other~~ antisemites.

one simple change, and you’ve said something true.

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 11:50:39am

re: #148 Buck

“Thank AIPAC For Placing USA On Wrong Side In Egypt”.

First it is completely not true, and completely unsubstantiated. That is important. It isn’t just an opinion. It is not backed up by ANY facts at all. Just a general conspiracy that he shares with other antisemites.

I don’t know his reasons as I don’t read him, but it doesn’t necessarily prove his “antisemitism” - he may be just wrong (and/or foolish).

BUT the first paragraph seems so very clear to me:

The pro israel lobby

to US policymakers. AND it is bad policy that ultimately will hurt the US.

Am I really so far off to read “dictates” as “control”?

Yes, there is a difference. The policy may be dictated because one controls someone or the policy may be dictated because that someone willfully accepts this policy. Again, Rosenberg is being crude here, but I think you’re reaching to accuse him of antisemitism.

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Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:06:15pm

re: #150 Sergey Romanov

I don’t know his reasons as I don’t read him, but it doesn’t necessarily prove his “antisemitism” - he may be just wrong (and/or foolish).

Well that is the minimizing thinig. He can say something that is exactly like what an antisemite would say, and it doesn’t mean that he is an antisemite. He can share the exact same view as an antisemite, but that does not make him an anti semite.

Yes, there is a difference. The policy may be dictated because one controls someone or the policy may be dictated because that someone willfully accepts this policy. Again, Rosenberg is being crude here, but I think you’re reaching to accuse him of antisemitism.

So you believe that saying “The Israel Lobby dictates policy to willing US policy makers” makes this ok? I don’t see the willfully thing helping make this ok at all.

BUT OK, You are on record. I disagree. I cannot be convinced that this is just a simple crude statement. He says it over and over in multiple different ways. It isn’t an accident, it is the entire thesis of the article.

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:12:10pm

re: #151 Buck

Well that is the minimizing thinig. He can say something that is exactly like what an antisemite would say, and it doesn’t mean that he is an antisemite. He can share the exact same view as an antisemite, but that does not make him an anti semite.

Well, one is an antisemite if his views are antisemitic, not merely because his views are shared by antisemites. See the difference?

So you believe that saying “The Israel Lobby dictates policy to willing US policy makers” makes this ok?

No, it’s not OK but not necessarily for the reason of antisemitism. Although antisemites will say things like that too, no doubt. But antisemites will also condemn Soros. You’re condemning Soros. Does that make you an antisemite?

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:18:27pm

re: #151 Buck

And to preempt your “but what about Beck and Soros” argument. Please note that Soros has been a pinata for conservatives long before Beck and nobody accused his critics of antisemitism. Beck was criticized for the very particular way he chose to portray Soros.

154

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:19:49pm

re: #146 Fozzie Bear

I’m sorry, I still don’t see any quotes that substantiate your claim. Maybe you should add me to your nonexistant LGF-post-blocking program?

Right… well if you become abusive and bullying I will.

OK, you need another quote from the article where he says that AIPAC “controls congress” or “controls the USA”.

In the opening paragraph he writes:

If one needs additional proof that the “pro-Israel” lobby and the policies it dictates to US policymakers are bad for both the U.S. and Israel, look no further than what is happening in Egypt.

Is it really a stretch to read that to say that the pro-Israel lobby is AIPAC?

Or that he is saying AIPAC dictates policies to US policy makers?

Is “dictates” really so far from control?

Is “US policy makers” not Congress?

Doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch…. I mean if it makes you feel better I will change my statement above to say “He is saying straight out that the Israel Lobby dictates policy to US policy makers.” I really think that is just as bad.

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Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:21:13pm

re: #154 Buck

Is “dictates” really so far from control?

Saying that it dictates some policies is very different from saying that it dictates all policies, yes.

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:40:52pm

re: #154 Buck

Buck, while we’re at it. Please tell me, is saying that “Arab lobby rules America” bigoted and racist/Arabophobic? Or just silly?

157

Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:54:05pm

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

Buck, while we’re at it. Please tell me, is saying that “Arab lobby rules America” bigoted and racist/Arabophobic? Or just silly?

Interesting that you mention that. It was a huge part of the movie fahrenheit-911.

I would have to read the book before I commented specifically on THAT book. Just saying that the Saudis spend huge amounts of money would not be the same as saying they actually dictate US policy.

According to what I have witnessed here today though, I would suppose it is only islamophobic if it comes from the Right. And only crude if it comes from the Left.

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 12:56:53pm

re: #157 Buck

Interesting that you mention that. It was a huge part of the movie fahrenheit-911.

I would have to read the book before I commented specifically on THAT book. Just saying that the Saudis spend huge amounts of money would not be the same as saying they actually dictate US policy.

According to what I have witnessed here today though, I would suppose it is only islamophobic if it comes from the Right. And only crude if it comes from the Left.

No need to read the book, comment on the article. Is Ynet racist/bigoted/Arabophobic?

Dershowitz agrees:

The Arab Lobby Rules America
by Alan M. Dershowitz
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com…]

Is Dershowitz anti-Arab? Yes or no?

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 1:01:46pm

re: #157 Buck

And note that the “The Arab Lobby Rules America” claim goes far, far beyond what Rosenberg wrote and what you found antisemitic.

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Buck Wed, Feb 2, 2011 1:02:03pm

re: #158 Sergey Romanov

No need to read the book, comment on the article. Is Ynet racist/bigoted/Arabophobic?

Dershowitz agrees:

Is Dershowitz anti-Arab? Yes or no?

You know what? I think the Dershowitz article explains the differences very well. It addresses that point specifically.

And YNET is just reviewing and reporting about a book.

161

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Feb 2, 2011 1:03:52pm

re: #160 Buck

Buck always has trouble with simple yes or no questions.

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Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 1:03:56pm

re: #160 Buck

So “The Arab Lobby Rules America” is not in the least Arabophobic, but “pro-Israel lobby dictates some of the US policies” is monstrously Judeophobic. Hmm.

163

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 1:12:27pm

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

I don’t expect Buck to be in the least consistent here, I really don’t. So I’ll make one last comment here.

There is a well established template of antisemitic “Jewish control” claims, and there is no such template (yet) for Arabs (although I guess some people want to establish such a template). So there is a historical difference here, with “The Arab Lobby Rules America” being merely silly, while “The Jewish Lobby Rules America” would be downright sinister and racist - because it fits a certain pattern.

That said, Rosenberg’s claims, however misguided, were much weaker than the equivalent of “The Arab Lobby Rules America”, and he obviously meant them in the way Dershowitz and Ynet meant their comments about the “Arab Lobby”. I.e. in the “Realpolitik” context, not sinister anti-Jewish context.

164

maxiton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 2:04:07pm

Dear Egyptians
Please…don’t destroy the Pyramids. We will not rebuild.
Moses Aaron, Mirya and The Jews.

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maxiton Wed, Feb 2, 2011 2:04:40pm

re: #164 maxiton