After Being Busted, GOP Drops ‘Forcible Rape’ Language from Anti-Choice Bill

Fundamentalist nuts back down, for now
US News • Views: 23,426

House Republicans were caught red-handed last week in a misogynistic plan to quietly redefine what qualifies as rape, in order to deny women federal funds for abortions.

Now that they’ve been exposed for the heartless bastards they are, they’re backing down.

House Republicans plan to sidestep a charged debate over the distinction between “forcible rape” and “rape” by altering the language of a bill banning taxpayer subsidies for abortions.

The provision in question, written as an exemption from the ban for women who become pregnant as a result of “forcible rape,” touched off a firestorm of criticism from women’s groups, and it gained enough attention to become the subject of a satirical segment on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.”

But a spokesman for the bill’s author, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.), says the modifier “forcible” will be dropped so that the exemption covers all forms of rape, as well as cases of incest and the endangerment of the life of the mother.

“The word forcible will be replaced with the original language from the Hyde Amendment,” Smith spokesman Jeff Sagnip told POLITICO, referring to the long-standing ban on direct use of taxpayer dollars for abortion services.

This is a tactical retreat, not a principled one. You can fully expect Republicans to continue trying to float this kind of anti-choice legislation, because the social conservative wing has decided it’s time for the big push to bring America back to the 19th century.

Jump to bottom

104 comments
1 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:38:18am

I’d like to note that the original Hyde amendment contains no language about minors whatsoever, and introducing that language was solely the work of the Republicans. They haven’t offered any explanation of why, either.

Fuckers.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:39:06am

Why not redefine robbery to exclude everything except armed robbery at gunpoint? It would certainly benefit the banks.

3 Kragar  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:39:57am

re: #1 Obdicut

I’d like to note that the original Hyde amendment contains no language about minors whatsoever, and introducing that language was solely the work of the Republicans. They haven’t offered any explanation of why, either.

Fuckers.

To cover a legacy of frat boy hijinks.

4 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:40:11am

re: #2 ralphieboy

Why not redefine robbery to exclude everything except armed robbery at gunpoint? It would certainly benefit the banks.

The insurance companies would love that.

5 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:42:48am
You can fully expect Republicans to continue trying to float this kind of anti-choice legislation, because the social conservative wing has decided it’s time for the big push to bring America back to the 19th century.

Case in point:

PHOENIX - A House panel approved a measure Wednesday that could make it impossible for women to get abortions in rural areas.

The legislation adds new requirements a clinic or hospital would have to fulfill before terminating a pregnancy. Those include performing an ultrasound, which would have to be available to the woman at least an hour before the procedure.

A patient also would have to get the chance to hear the fetal heartbeat if one were available.

But Bryan Howard, president of Planned Parenthood of Arizona, told members of the House Committee on Health and Human Services the most far-reaching provision in HB 2416 could be a small change that expands the definition of what constitutes a surgical abortion to also include pregnancies terminated by drugs. He said that makes no sense.

“That entire regulatory framework is built around surgery: what prep you have to do before the surgery, what facilities and instruments and medicines you need to have on site during the surgery, and what preparations you have to safeguard the woman post-surgery,” Howard said. “Abortion by pill involves exactly zero of any of that.”

Howard said the real effect would be to end the practice of Planned Parenthood to offer non-surgical abortions at its clinics in rural areas, because it would eliminate the now-legal procedure of nurse practitioners with certain training administering RU-486. That double dose of drugs is designed to cause a woman to abort, though the process takes several days.

[…]

They’ve been chipping away at the edges for decades. It is accelerating.

6 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:43:12am

When I saw about five of my friends with web presences (all female, by the way, all pretty plugged into womens’ politics) ALL talking about this bill and stopping it, I figured it was going to go down or at least get the attention required

7 Ming  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:43:13am

I wonder if Rand Paul thinks that the government can ban all abortions, without any increase in federal spending. If he thinks that some federal spending would be required, how does he plan to pay for it? Oh, how silly of me: by cutting everything else that the government spends money on.

8 mr.fusion  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:48:25am

How do we keep putting these people into power?!?!?!

It’s possible I live in a bubble but I just find it so hard to believe that the majority of Americans agree with this type of BS

9 garhighway  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:48:53am

“Welcome to the GOP-led House. Please set your watches back 50 years.”

10 iossarian  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:49:17am

I’d like to re-quote researchok’s comment from the previous thread:

The Muslim Brotherhood is anti gay, religiously intolerant (in that they espouse the idea that Muslims must always be accorded superior status to non Muslims) and they are proponents of anti women agendas and are in favor of Quranic ordained punishments.

They are not a model for democracy,period.

Seems appropriate.

11 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:49:47am

cockroaches

12 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:49:52am

Let’s see how the freshman GOP class is doing
Repeal health care reform-Failed in the Senate
Change the rape statute-Fail
Reduce the budget by 58 billion-Fail
Now this-Dems beat GOP to punch on their own bill

Not going to impress the base, the Tea Party types or the independents much now is it?

13 jaunte  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:50:02am

re: #8 mr.fusion

Most people are paying more attention to their preferred entertainment.

14 mr.fusion  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:50:49am

good to see the GOP focusing on jobsre: #12 Rightwingconspirator

Let’s see how the freshman GOP class is doing
Repeal health care reform-Failed in the Senate
Change the rape statute-Fail
Reduce the budget by 58 billion-Fail
Now this-Dems beat GOP to punch on their own bill

Not going to impress the base, the Tea Party types or the independents much now is it?

But hey…….at least they’re focused on jobs

15 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:51:08am

re: #10 iossarian

I’m going to go the extra step and say that The Republican Party has become a Christian version of the Muslim Brotherhood.

16 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:51:32am

Thank you Charles for calling heartless bastards, heartless bastards.

17 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:51:58am

re: #15 ProLifeLiberal

I’m going to go the extra step and say that The Republican Party has become a Christian version of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The parallels are shockingly similar.

18 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:54:48am

re: #5 wrenchwench

They love redefining words when it can really screw over women, apparently.

19 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:55:59am

Looks like we won’t need Buck’s activist judge now.

20 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:56:21am

re: #15 ProLifeLiberal

I’m going to go the extra step and say that The Republican Party has become a Christian version of the Muslim Brotherhood.

I wouldn’t go as far to say that it’s the whole party. Though there are definitely theocratic segments who are after the same sort of goals, namely a a particular type of Christian oriented governance system.

21 iossarian  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:57:41am

re: #20 Jadespring

I wouldn’t go as far to say that it’s the whole party. Though there are definitely theocratic segments who are after the same sort of goals, namely a a particular type of Christian oriented governance system.

I assume that the MB is similar in that there are also elements who are just in it for the power/money.

However, if you look at the comment I quoted, you can replace “Muslim Brotherhood” with “Republican Party” with no loss of truthiness whatsoever.

22 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:58:07am

re: #20 Jadespring

I wouldn’t go as far to say that it’s the whole party. Though there are definitely theocratic segments who are after the same sort of goals, namely a a particular type of Christian oriented governance system.

20% just like the MB.

23 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 10:59:19am

re: #20 Jadespring

I wouldn’t go as far to say that it’s the whole party. Though there are definitely theocratic segments who are after the same sort of goals, namely a a particular type of Christian oriented governance system.

The generalism is unfair, but unless some GOP grownup calls out the crazies, the Repubs can own it.

24 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:00:01am

From the article:

Under the Hyde amendment, which is recodified annually in an appropriations law, women who are victims of any type of rape or incest at any age are eligible for federally subsidized abortions.

That thing should be thrown out. Instead, it got reinforced in a deal to get the Health Care Bill passed.

25 butterick  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:02:04am

19th century? They want to roll the world back to the 17th if not earlier. Pre-enlightenment, anyhow. It’s a blatantly anti-liberty, anti-reason, anti-science ideology.

26 Lidane  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:02:33am

re: #9 garhighway

“Welcome to the GOP-led House. Please set your watches back 500 years.”

FTFY

27 Tigger2005  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:06:01am

re: #10 iossarian

I’d like to re-quote researchok’s comment from the previous thread:

Seems appropriate.

Unfortunately, by cracking down, the Egyptian government is playing right into the MB’s hands.

You know, even if Mubarak manages to hold on (doubtful) how are we supposed to continue to support his regime and not look like even bigger hypocrites than we already do? Now, I’m not going to say the Egyptian regime is just as bad as Iran’s, but their crackdown has to be condemned, and strongly…up to and including a reduction in aid and military support.

28 Kragar  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:06:29am

re: #25 butterick

19th century? They want to roll the world back to the 17th if not earlier. Pre-enlightenment, anyhow. It’s a blatantly anti-liberty, anti-reason, anti-science ideology.

The current GOP would throw out Cotton Mathers because he was for vaccinations.

29 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:09:19am

re: #27 Tigger2005

Yes—in 3 weeks Mu has gone from a bulwark of the peace accords, becoming a direct threat to them.

30 eastwald  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:18:22am

These old fogies are sealing their party’s fate by attempting to “advance” social goals like this.. Younger people don’t buy into this kind of crap.

31 mr.fusion  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:21:01am

re: #25 butterick

19th century? They want to roll the world back to the 17th if not earlier. Pre-enlightenment, anyhow. It’s a blatantly anti-liberty, anti-reason, anti-science ideology.

But they dress up like Colonials and are called the “Tea Party” so they’re totally patriots/true Americans.

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:22:49am

Bringing to mind the question which types of rape were they trying to exclude.

Rape by rohypnol?

The charge that Assange faces?

Statutory rape? (My guess)*

*I, personally, would have no problem pressing charges if the young women were my daughter. None.

33 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:24:10am

I’m glad that the wingnuts have taken sides with Mubarak. It is a tacit admission on their part that they don’t think democracy is really always the best form of government or that all people deserve democracy.

It also blows huge holes in their claims to be about freedom and individual liberty. It shows that they only really want enough liberty to do whatever they personally want and they couldn’t give one shit about you if you are a different religion, sex, ideology, etc from them.

34 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:24:40am

re: #32 EmmmieG

I note that by their guidelines, if the girl Roman Polanski had raped had gotten pregnant, this bill would have prohibited her from getting an abortion if any federal funds were involved.

35 mikefromArlington  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:25:52am

Disgusting. Truly disgusting.

36 mikefromArlington  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:27:19am

2012 RNC Convention Song

“We’re gonna have a party like it’s 1399”

37 rwdflynavy  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:28:32am

Apparently the GOP isn’t particularly worried about the female vote, or the thinking person’s vote either.

38 Lidane  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:30:22am

re: #37 rwdflynavy

Apparently the GOP isn’t particularly worried about the female vote, or the thinking person’s vote either.

Of course not. They have the Tea Party. What more is there?

39 recusancy  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:31:57am
40 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:33:08am

It’s a redundant statement, anyway. Rape requires coercion of one type or another. Whether it is emotional and mental coercion of an adult overa child, or physical coercion, it is the same thing.

I present for your consideration an article that was a long time in the making. A former politician named Neil Goldschmidt had to drop out of the public life because of revelations that he had been having sex with a minor.

He characterized it as a nine-month affair with a fifteen year old decades earlier. The victim died recently, and the reporter who took the story has now published what the woman told her. It had been decided at the time not to publish it.

Here you have, in all its glory, what happens when a grown man has a “relationship” with a young teen: [Link: www.oregonlive.com…]

41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:39:00am

re: #39 recusancy

“The breeding industry”

That just gives me the creeps :P

42 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:42:45am

re: #39 recusancy

Republicans continually abuse people, animals, and the planet they all live on. It’s scripture.

43 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:44:35am

re: #42 theheat

Republicans continually abuse people, animals, and the planet they all live on. It’s scripture.

Prosperity for me, on the back of thee?

44 Kragar  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:47:38am

re: #42 theheat

Republicans continually abuse people, animals, and the planet they all live on. It’s scripture.

To them, it is actually

America’s public policy: all we need is Genesis 1 and 2

45 recusancy  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:48:17am

re: #41 WindUpBird

“The breeding industry”

That just gives me the creeps :P

Yeah. After I watched this a few years ago I’ll fucking lose it if I hear of someone doing this.

46 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:51:01am

re: #45 recusancy

Yeah. After I watched this a few years ago I’ll fucking lose it if I hear of someone doing this.

Just for the record, I am not responsible for the 30,000 marine animals slaughtered after I opened that page.

I don’t eat seafood.

47 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:51:45am

re: #5 wrenchwench

the most far-reaching provision in HB 2416 could be a small change that expands the definition of what constitutes a surgical abortion to also include pregnancies terminated by drugs.

They want to reduce women to broodmare status, pure and simple.

It isn’t about the method of abortion, or how long after sex it occurs, or what is even considered a pregnancy, it’s the fact they want to give sperm more power than people.

48 Kragar  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:54:40am

re: #47 theheat

They want to reduce women to broodmare status, pure and simple.

It isn’t about the method of abortion, or how long after sex it occurs, or what is even considered a pregnancy, it’s the fact they want to give sperm more power than people.

The Handmaid’s Tale was supposed to be a warning, not a bloody roadmap.

49 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:55:20am

re: #47 theheat

They want to reduce women to broodmare status, pure and simple.

It isn’t about the method of abortion, or how long after sex it occurs, or what is even considered a pregnancy, it’s the fact they want to give sperm more power than people.

Type it, sister!

It’s not just abortion, either. It’s contraception, it’s education about how sex and reproduction work. Knowledge is power, so they’re preventing it from getting into the wrong hands.

50 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:55:43am

By the way, speaking of crazy anti-government violent whack jobs with freaky ideas about religion, we just found out these hillbilly fucks live nearby.

By nearby, I think I can walk there.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 11:58:55am

re: #50 theheat

By the way, speaking of crazy anti-government violent whack jobs with freaky ideas about religion, we just found out these hillbilly fucks live nearby.

By nearby, I think I can walk there.

Well. That sounds exciting.

Say hi to them for me if you walk over.

52 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:01:07pm

Whatever shred of respect I had for the GOP is now gone. Bunch of miserable creeps. I seriously gotta question why some folk remain Republicans if they support safe and legal abortions.

53 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:02:11pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s pretty neat having armed anti-government racist religious nuts that dabble in paper terrorism and trolling militia and fuck-the-fed forums in their spare time a stone’s throw from your door.

54 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:02:43pm

re: #41 WindUpBird

“The breeding industry”

That just gives me the creeps :P

The cruelty within the pet industry is horrible. Especially in the big breeding operations and retail outlets.

I’m starting my own business to breed marine fish. The idea is to preserve reef ecology by reducing the need for wild collected animals. And I’m taking the opposite approach to this heartless puppy mill attitude in how I interact with my animals. I handle them with empathy. To that end I train them to eat from my hand or collection cup and even pet or gently cup the friendlier specimens (cleaner shrimp!). The empathic approach helps not only reduce the stress of captivity and handling but also makes adapting to their new human owners easier.

Republicans need to learn that you can make a decent profit without being a cruel heartless bastard. Oh, and treat humans nicely too.

55 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:03:01pm

re: #6 WindUpBird

When I saw about five of my friends with web presences (all female, by the way, all pretty plugged into womens’ politics) ALL talking about this bill and stopping it, I figured it was going to go down or at least get the attention required

I’m still trying to wrap my head around what constitutes “non-forcible rape.”

56 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:04:33pm

re: #54 prononymous

Republicans need to learn that you can make a decent profit without being a cruel heartless bastard. Oh, and treat humans nicely too.

Are you kidding? That’s like asking water to stop being wet.

It’s what they are. Through and through, it’s what they are.

57 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:05:49pm

re: #53 theheat

It’s pretty neat having armed anti-government racist religious nuts that dabble in paper terrorism and trolling militia and fuck-the-fed forums in their spare time a stone’s throw from your door.

do they sell t-shirts?

i want a ARMED ANTI-GOVERNMENT RACIST RELIGIOUS FUCKWIT MORAN
t-shirt

58 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:07:27pm

re: #57 engineer dog

They already have their own license plates.

59 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:07:49pm

re: #53 theheat

It’s pretty neat having armed anti-government racist religious nuts that dabble in paper terrorism and trolling militia and fuck-the-fed forums in their spare time a stone’s throw from your door.

Racist fake Indians are really special somehow.

60 Tigger2  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:11:08pm

re: #39 recusancy

Republicans also want the freedom to be cruel to dogs.
[Link: house.mo.gov…]


This I hate, my biggest cause is protection for kids and animals the truly defenceless in our society.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:11:21pm

re: #55 marjoriemoon

I’m still trying to wrap my head around what constitutes “non-forcible rape.”

Drugging, coercion, statutory—and in the hands of the right attorney, anything that doesn’t involve a deadly weapon or leave major injuries. Especially ugly when you consider the possibilities regarding sexual abuse in the home.

This is deadly fucking dangerous not only because of the abortion funding issue, but because it starts to lead us back toward courtroom standards of rape that were gradually phased out over the past several decades.

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:12:05pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

Racist fake Indians are really special somehow.

There’s something of a tradition there. Didn’t the guy who wrote “The Education of Little Tree” turn out to have a white supremacist connection?

63 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:12:10pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

Racist fake Indians because - you know - whitey suffers while those lucky damned Native ‘mericans got all the perks.

64 researchok  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:14:06pm

Muslim Brotherhood to Israeli TV: referendum to decide peace treaty

If the ‘revolution’ to oust Egyptian President Hosny Mubarak succeeds, Egypt will hold a referendum to decide the fate of its 1979 peace treaty with Israel, Israel’s Channel 10 television quoted a Muslim Brotherhood official as warning Thursday.

‘Israel has nothing to fear but its own crimes,’ Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Assam el-Erian told the channel.

But he also gave reassurances that the Brotherhood was a ‘non- violent’ and not an extremist organization.

65 researchok  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:15:47pm

re: #64 researchok

Non violent if you don’t count attacks on gays, support for the subjugation of women and enforcement of Quranic style punishments.

66 Alexzander  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:20:38pm

Has this already been discussed:
Vodafone: Egypt forced us to send text messages

?

67 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:21:41pm

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

I do know there are several racist connections right here. They’ve insulated their [white] organizers under a ton of fake corporations using fake and/or disbarred attorneys as contact names, but as you peel away and find out this or that person, they run the gamut from soft core to hard core klukker types, with the occasional rapist or person who likes to impersonate police officers in the mix.

The WA state Bar Review just a couple weeks ago had an article dedicated to the problems their “paper terrorism” is causing, and just how crazy these people really are.

In some cases these nuts have targeted the attorneys representing various banks, lending institutions, the government, etc., and named the opposing attorneys personally as defendants in their crazy manifestos they choke the legal system with. They often send death threats, harassing letters, etc. to the opposing party, or solicit other people to do so on the insane forums they participate on.

68 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:21:56pm

re: #20 Jadespring

I wouldn’t go as far to say that it’s the whole party. Though there are definitely theocratic segments who are after the same sort of goals, namely a a particular type of Christian oriented governance system.

Maybe not the whole party but the leaders certainly are. Anyone who would put forth this kind of bill has the morals of a slug.

69 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:22:39pm

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s something of a tradition there. Didn’t the guy who wrote “The Education of Little Tree” turn out to have a white supremacist connection?

Yep.

…His agent and publishers have described Mr. Carter as a self-taught writer. Indeed he was. For almost 30 years he honed his skills by spewing out racist and anti-Semitic pamphlets. In 1970 he wrote that all N.A.A.C.P. presidents “have been Jews … the same gang who financed the Russian Communist Revolution with millions out of New York City.” …

That’s just a small preview…

70 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:24:06pm

re: #69 wrenchwench

It’s creepy knowing they’re right here. These are some seriously fucked up people.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:24:59pm

re: #67 theheat

I do know there are several racist connections right here. They’ve insulated their [white] organizers under a ton of fake corporations using fake and/or disbarred attorneys as contact names, but as you peel away and find out this or that person, they run the gamut from soft core to hard core klukker types, with the occasional rapist or person who likes to impersonate police officers in the mix.

The WA state Bar Review just a couple weeks ago had an article dedicated to the problems their “paper terrorism” is causing, and just how crazy these people really are.

In some cases these nuts have targeted the attorneys representing various banks, lending institutions, the government, etc., and named the opposing attorneys personally as defendants in their crazy manifestos they choke the legal system with. They often send death threats, harassing letters, etc. to the opposing party, or solicit other people to do so on the insane forums they participate on.

And they’re right up the road from you? Oh joy.

This makes me feel better about my old neighbor, who once put a thirty-page packet of documentation of—something, not sure what, but Angela Alioto’s firm wouldn’t take the case—through my letter slot.

72 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:25:17pm

And if you don’t know what I mean by friendly in : #54

73 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:26:21pm

re: #70 theheat

It’s creepy knowing they’re right here. These are some seriously fucked up people.

Do you have other neighbors who can be brought up to speed? The more eyes on ‘em the better. Not to mention local law enforcement, if they are unaware.

74 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:26:39pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Without revealing too much, Mr. Heat just so happens to be one of the people they’ve targeted.

75 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:27:20pm

re: #50 theheat

By the way, speaking of crazy anti-government violent whack jobs with freaky ideas about religion, we just found out these hillbilly fucks live nearby.

By nearby, I think I can walk there.

Really fascinating—bookmarked.

76 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:27:25pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

Deep down, I probably have neighbors who sympathize with them.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:30:42pm

re: #74 theheat

Without revealing too much, Mr. Heat just so happens to be one of the people they’ve targeted.

Oh, shit.

Sorry to hear that.

78 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:32:19pm

re: #54 prononymous

The cruelty within the pet industry is horrible. Especially in the big breeding operations and retail outlets.

I’m starting my own business to breed marine fish. The idea is to preserve reef ecology by reducing the need for wild collected animals. And I’m taking the opposite approach to this heartless puppy mill attitude in how I interact with my animals. I handle them with empathy. To that end I train them to eat from my hand or collection cup and even pet or gently cup the friendlier specimens (cleaner shrimp!). The empathic approach helps not only reduce the stress of captivity and handling but also makes adapting to their new human owners easier.

Republicans need to learn that you can make a decent profit without being a cruel heartless bastard. Oh, and treat humans nicely too.

I bred percula clownfish and black-cap grammas for years, as well as propagating corals. I was never able to do much better than breaking even, however. It was just a good way to make my (expensive) hobby free for me.

My fish always ended up being super “friendly” too. It’s amazing what a little hand-fed food will do to take them from terrified of me to eager to see me.

79 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:34:00pm

re: #78 Fozzie Bear

err… black cap basslets. Not technically grammas. Not that a single sould here will care, lol.

80 webevintage  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:36:08pm

re: #5 wrenchwench

Case in point:

PHOENIX - A House panel approved a measure Wednesday that could make it impossible for women to get abortions in rural areas.

They’ve been chipping away at the edges for decades. It is accelerating.

Maybe now men like Sullivan will stop wondering why a woman would wait until late in her 2nd trimester to get an abortion.

81 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:36:59pm

re: #78 Fozzie Bear

I bred percula clownfish and black-cap grammas for years, as well as propagating corals. I was never able to do much better than breaking even, however. It was just a good way to make my (expensive) hobby free for me.

My fish always ended up being super “friendly” too. It’s amazing what a little hand-fed food will do to take them from terrified of me to eager to see me.

I’m taking a little different approach. The market is fairly saturated with aquacultured clownfish and a few others. I plan on doing this experimentally and breeding difficult and rarer pelagic spawners. Also I will sell directly to the end owner, cutting out the wholesalers and (some) fish stores.

I expect it to be quite profitable. But of course that’s what every new business owner thinks. ;)

82 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:38:32pm

re: #80 webevintage

Particularly when a pharmacist can deny the morning after pill fully protected by a conscience clause.

The really don’t want women to have any control over their bodies whatsoever. Not even to prevent pregnancy, which prevents abortions.

83 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:38:33pm

re: #76 theheat

Deep down, I probably have neighbors who sympathize with them.

Buried already?

/

Take care.

84 theheat  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:43:19pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

Buried already?

No, but I’m not welcoming visitors with a cold beer and a rousing chorus of Dixieland, if that’s what you mean.

It’s all kinds of fucked up, having people like this in your midst.

85 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:45:28pm

re: #81 prononymous

I’m taking a little different approach. The market is fairly saturated with aquacultured clownfish and a few others. I plan on doing this experimentally and breeding difficult and rarer pelagic spawners. Also I will sell directly to the end owner, cutting out the wholesalers and (some) fish stores.

I expect it to be quite profitable. But of course that’s what every new business owner thinks. ;)

If you have the patience and the equipment, coral propagation can be lucrative if you have the right varieties. Look into mussids and acroprids. People will pay insane amounts of money for rare varieties, and none of them are really truly hard to grow onces you have it down. (It does require much more initial investment, however, especially in lighting.)

86 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:49:51pm

re: #85 Fozzie Bear

An example of higher-end coral fragments on sale. Note that these are WYSIWYG (the actual piece offered for sale, not just an example of the species.) Most of these cuttings are very small, and represent maybe a month or two of growing time. All you need is a few choice mother colonies, and you are good to go.

87 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:50:02pm

re: #86 Fozzie Bear

[Link: www.vividaquariums.com…]

woops, there’s the link.

89 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:53:05pm

re: #85 Fozzie Bear

re: #86 Fozzie Bear

re: #87 Fozzie Bear

I won’t be doing coral propagation until I can setup a greenhouse. I will be setting up a website like the one you linked.

Did the Blackcap basslets take rotifers?

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:56:08pm

“May you live in interesting times.”

[a pseudo-Chinese pseudo-curse]

91 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:57:11pm

re: #89 prononymous

Did the Blackcap basslets take rotifers?

Looks in Witt’s book. Apparently they do.

92 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:59:37pm

re: #64 researchok

Muslim Brotherhood to Israeli TV: referendum to decide peace treaty

Who was arguing with me the other day about how the Muslim Brotherhood is all changed now? Ah yes, Jordash1212. They are remaking their image or have rethought their terrorist mission or some other such nonsense. Why go after Israel then? What’s the point? They have peace now, what is the reason to sacrifice themselves?

93 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:00:40pm

re: #89 prononymous

re: #86 Fozzie Bear

re: #87 Fozzie Bear

I won’t be doing coral propagation until I can setup a greenhouse. I will be setting up a website like the one you linked.

Did the Blackcap basslets take rotifers?

I had to set up enormous refugia to feed them. They would eat the rotifers, but it was hard to keep concentrations high enough in the tank the fry were living in. I ended up using 500-gallon tubs with 400 watt metal halides over them full of rock with airstones, and farming greenwater (phytoplankton) in separate tanks to then in turn farm rotifers, copepods, and mysids in separate tanks for the basslets. They were a PITA to feed, but I had a mated pair that bred like clockwork, so I had time to trial-and-error my way through until it worked. I suggest getting all of Martin Moe’s books, if you don’t have them already. The man literally wrote the book on marine aquaculture.

94 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:05:15pm

re: #93 Fozzie Bear

This guy:
[Link: www.amazon.com…]

His books are an amazing resource for this hobby. Seriously, get them all. Some of them are a bit dated, but it doesn’t matter. The old techniques are still some of the best.

95 Bulworth  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:08:27pm

I’m really surprised they’re backing down. They never back down, apologize or reverse course for anything. But I imagine they’ll be back, probably sooner rather than later, with something similar. It’s more of that less government I keep hearing about.

96 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:09:11pm

re: #67 theheat

re: #73 wrenchwench

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Haven’t heard of these scoundrels, but I used to be quite involved with friends who tried their best to expose “plastic shamans” or whites acting like Indian medicine people. That was pretty insidious.

97 makeitstop  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:09:51pm

Afternoon, Lizards.

You Beatle fans will enjoy this: Fab Faux perform second side of ‘Abbey Road’

Very well done.

98 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:09:52pm

re: #93 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, Moe’s books are great. They are indispensable along with Matthew Wittenrich’s breeder’s guide and Frank Hoff’s Plankton Culture Manual.

I think I will be skipping rotifers for the most part. They are a staple because of how easy they are to culture. But their poor nutritional quality and large size are big turnoffs. Since calanoid copepods have much better nutritional content and are almost required for many pelagic spawners - that’s where I’m focused now. I’m running 4 types of algae for their various nutritional profiles and am going to run 2 different calanoid copepods. I have yet to setup my broodstock tanks, I’m just working on culturing larval foods at the moment.

99 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:12:40pm

re: #98 prononymous

I just went the “huge water volume” route, instead of getting into culturing specific plankton species. Lots of rubbermaid tubs. The way you describe is more efficient, but also more work.

Best of luck to you.

100 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:16:00pm

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

Thanks, I’ll need all the luck I can get.

101 Ming  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:19:43pm

A year or so ago, I saw an item in the news that the Republican National Committee had abortion coverage as an option in its health insurance. Does anyone know if they still do?

102 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:23:43pm

re: #100 prononymous

A horror story, which is also kind of funny. My first batch of black-cap fry ended up being eaten, to my abject horror, by a micromussa colony I that had sprung up on a rock in their tank. I didn’t know they were breeding yet, so one day I looked in their tank, and was all excited to see fry. “LOOK HONEY, I HAVE BABY FISH” I called my wife over. To our horror, in front of our eyes, the micromussa opened up and ate every freaking single one of them before I could even scoop one out. It went into turbo sweeper-tentacle mode faster than I could find a way to get the babies out.

103 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 1:29:21pm

re: #102 Fozzie Bear

Heh. Sad, but at least the micromussa got a good meal. That happens a lot with aiptasia in larval tanks that don’t get cleaned often enough.

It would be a real downer if it happened to a batch of Candy Basslet larvae.

104 Querent  Thu, Feb 3, 2011 9:15:49pm

re: #18 Obdicut

They love redefining words when it can really screw over women, apparently.

And an arse-reaming, by any other name, would cause just as much butthurt.


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