Tea Party hero Rand Paul says we need to end ‘welfare’ to Israel.
“I think they’re an important ally, but I also think that their per capita income is greater than probably three-fourths of the rest of the world,” he said. “Should we be giving free money or welfare to a wealthy nation? I don’t think so.”
1 |
jc717 Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:30:40pm |
Wow. I actually agree with him on something.
Israel is a wealthy nuclear power. We don't need to be sending them billions of dollars each year.
| 2 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:31:10pm |
all foreign aid is welfare... the question is, what do we get in return?
| 3 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:32:21pm |
I agree that it's welfare. But I'm also pro welfare.
| 5 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:34:54pm |
Given the abject idiocy that Rand Paul showed in his budget cuts, I'm not all that inclined to agree with him, just on principle.
| 6 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:34:57pm |
well, OK. They were going to sell some pretty sophisticated "look down" radar to China... we paid them not to. Welfare?
| 7 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:35:22pm |
re: #6 brookly red
well, OK. They were going to sell some pretty sophisticated "look down" radar to China... we paid them not to. Welfare?
Bribe.
| 8 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:35:33pm |
I've often wondered the same thing, and I don't think there is a cut and dried answer...some say our aid to Israel is well worth it in terms of learned intelligence and supporting stability...and th fact that Israel does a lot of RandD that we don't have to....seems worth it to me
| 9 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:35:59pm |
re: #3 recusancy
I agree that it's welfare. But I'm also pro welfare.
I am pro "letting a not letting a nation being wiped off the map."
| 10 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:37:10pm |
re: #9 Cannadian Club Akbar
I am pro "letting a not letting a nation being wiped off the map."
not letting a nation being wiped off the map, pimf.
(I blame the free beer at this point)
| 11 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:37:23pm |
re: #2 brookly red
all foreign aid is welfare... the question is, what do we get in return?
Well, you know what we get. Firstly, Israel is one of few countries that actually pays back its debts. What has Israel given us? The World? Cell phone and voicemail technology, the Intel chip, medicine, agricultural, green alternatives, and so much more.
| 12 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:38:40pm |
Hey LVQ here's some more material for your "Why the GOP consistently fails to appeal to most Jews" pages!
| 13 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:38:51pm |
re: #11 marjoriemoon
Well, you know what we get. Firstly, Israel is one of few countries that actually pays back its debts. What has Israel given us? The World? Cell phone and voicemail technology, the Intel chip, medicine, agricultural, green alternatives, and so much more.
I don't think it's a loan we're giving them. We don't get paid back.
| 14 |
jaunte Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:38:57pm |
At the moment the Egyptians are having an uprising and Israelis are nervous about what that means for their future, Rand Paul demonstrates his subtle grasp of international relations by throwing a little more gas on the fire.
| 15 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:38:59pm |
Israel soldiers train with our military. My husband did tank maneuvers with IDF soldiers when he was in the service.
| 16 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:39:02pm |
re: #11 marjoriemoon
Well, you know what we get. Firstly, Israel is one of few countries that actually pays back its debts. What has Israel given us? The World? Cell phone and voicemail technology, the Intel chip, medicine, agricultural, green alternatives, and so much more.
so maybe it was a good deal? yes?
| 17 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:39:32pm |
re: #13 recusancy
I don't think it's a loan we're giving them. We don't get paid back.
I'm trying to find the links. I had them on a drive that crashed.
| 18 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:40:14pm |
re: #14 jaunte
At the moment the Egyptians are having an uprising and Israelis are nervous about what that means for their future, Rand Paul demonstrates his subtle grasp of international relations by throwing a little more gas on the fire.
He's an isolationist like his father. Put your fingers in your ears and turn your head away and you won't hear or see them.
| 19 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:40:15pm |
re: #9 Cannadian Club Akbar
I am pro "letting a not letting a nation being wiped off the map."
///But if we cut aid to Israel then they wouldn't have a strong enough army to appear in charge, then they would get actively invaded and we could bust in with our own big guns like we did in the Gulf War and be all BANG BANG BOOM BOOM, AMERICA F*** YEAH!
| 20 |
webevintage Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:40:19pm |
Since the dawn of American civilization, man has directed his laser pointer at airplane cockpits in order to blind the pilots and make the thing crash to the ground, for teh lulz. Unfortunately, the Senate yesterday passed a bill making this sort of thing illegal, by a vote of 96-1. Any guesses as to the brave legislator who stood against big government and for the founders explicit intent to let people shoot lasers as they please? Yes, Rand Paul.
More lulz at Wonkette.
[Link: wonkette.com...]
| 21 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:40:34pm |
| 22 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:41:29pm |
What I don't get are the people that are for this kind of welfare but are totally against domestic government welfare.
| 23 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:43:06pm |
re: #14 jaunte
At the moment the Egyptians are having an uprising and Israelis are nervous about what that means for their future, Rand Paul demonstrates his subtle grasp of international relations by throwing a little more gas on the fire.
I have to agree. I kinda like his financial view point , but come foreign affairs he is not acceptable. IMO.
| 24 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:44:39pm |
re: #22 recusancy
What I don't get are the people that are for this kind of welfare but are totally against domestic government welfare.
ROI.
| 25 |
justaminute Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:44:55pm |
I can't stand Rand Paul. I thought our aide to Israel went to buy weapons back from us. Isn't that really just welfare for the MIC? Even I who have family in Iran understand why Israel needs aide from us. If Iran was not so messed up, I think they could have been good partners. Arab nations have never liked Iran either. My two cents.
| 26 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:45:35pm |
| 27 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:45:39pm |
| 28 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:46:22pm |
re: #23 brookly red
I have to agree. I kinda like his financial view point , but come foreign affairs he is not acceptable. IMO.
He's not acceptable on any level. He lacks any sort of grasp of government or how it really works. Just look at the idiotic budget he released. If we followed his ideas, we'd be a Third World nation in a matter of weeks.
His grasp of foreign affairs is even more pathetic.
| 29 |
JoyousMN Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:46:40pm |
You know what, I don't know that I totally disagree with Paul on this. Now before I'm tarred as anti-Israeli...my point is that if we are going to look at the budget and think about cutting spending then ALL spending should be looked at--domestic and military.
Now, maybe Paul is wrong and the money we give them is completely necessary, but I don't think it hurts to ask the question.
The way he phrased it could have been more diplomatic, but since when are tea partier's known for diplomacy?
| 30 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:47:04pm |
| 32 |
BishopX Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:47:25pm |
| 34 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:48:29pm |
| 36 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:49:07pm |
re: #30 brookly red
Really? please explain.
That we shouldn't invest in people here because we will never get anything back out of them, IMO, is an ugly comment.
| 37 |
Mocking Jay Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:49:17pm |
re: #20 webevintage
I'm having trouble seeing him as anything more than just an anarchist, really.
| 38 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:49:31pm |
re: #33 Lidane
Return on Investment
Buzzword.
Well, OK, maybe not.
It's how I think of it, I hate that ROI term.
Some things we do (or should do) because it gives us a return on investment.
Other things we do (or should do), simply because it's the right thing.
| 39 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:50:55pm |
re: #37 JasonA
I'm having trouble seeing him as anything more than just an anarchist, really.
That's because both he and Daddy are anarcho-capitalist libertarians who worship at the altar of the Austrian School.
| 40 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:51:27pm |
re: #39 Lidane
That's because both he and Daddy are anarcho-capitalist libertarians who worship at the altar of the Austrian School.
SOMALIA IS FREEMARKET DISNEYWORLD!!!
/
| 41 |
jaunte Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:51:42pm |
re: #29 JoyousMN
You know what, I don't know that I totally disagree with Paul on this. Now before I'm tarred as anti-Israeli...my point is that if we are going to look at the budget and think about cutting spending then ALL spending should be looked at--domestic and military.
It's not a bad idea to reexamine foreign aid expenditures in general, but singling out Israel at this particular time is really block-headed.
| 42 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:52:11pm |
re: #36 prononymous
That we shouldn't invest in people here because we will never get anything back out of them, IMO, is an ugly comment.
well how do you feel about negative ROI?
| 43 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:52:22pm |
| 45 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:53:18pm |
Please forgive me as I sit back and snicker as I watch the glibertarians and the theocrats consume each other in an orgy of self righteous one-up-manship.
| 46 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:53:24pm |
re: #42 brookly red
well how do you feel about negative ROI?
Interesting point. I suppose it all depends on what non measurable side effects there are...
For example, what kind of ROI do we get on our several hundred billion dollar military budget?
| 47 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:53:27pm |
re: #42 brookly red
well how do you feel about negative ROI?
What have we gotten back from you since you've cashed all your unemployment checks?
| 48 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:53:32pm |
Speaking of Famous Pauls, I've posted a page on Nate Silver's first comprehenive look at 2012 GOP/TP Hopelesses.
| 49 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:53:53pm |
re: #41 jaunte
It's not a bad idea to reexamine foreign aid expenditures in general, but singling out Israel at this particular time is really block-headed.
That's just it-- he's only picking on Israel publicly to be a douche. If he had his way, he'd cut ALL foreign aid and all but dismantle the State Department. The guy's a fucking loon.
| 50 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:54:01pm |
re: #47 recusancy
What have we gotten back from you since you've cashed all your unemployment checks?
pizza and beer.
/
| 51 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:54:21pm |
re: #42 brookly red
well how do you feel about negative ROI?
See, this is why I do not like this term, ROI.
Again, there are things we do because in order to make progress, we need to do to get a "return on investment", or in other words, "be effective".
Then there are things we do (or should do) because it's simply the right thing to do, where the effectiveness is measured in terms of kindness or charity (meaning love), not because we'll get anything "back".
| 52 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:54:28pm |
re: #46 jamesfirecat
Interesting point. I suppose it all depends on what non measurable side effects there are...
For example, what kind of ROI do we get on our several hundred billion dollar military budget?
none if the world thinks we won't use it.
| 53 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:54:41pm |
re: #47 recusancy
What have we gotten back from you since you've cashed all your unemployment checks?
Not a valid argument, Unemployment spending has a positive ROI due to how it stimulates the economy, and gives us more than a dollar of economic stimulus for every dollar spent...
| 54 |
Spocomptonite Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:55:02pm |
re: #14 jaunte
At the moment the Egyptians are having an uprising and Israelis are nervous about what that means for their future, Rand Paul demonstrates his subtle grasp of international relations by throwing a little more gas on the fire.
"If I can't see or hear or otherwise experience the problem for myself, then there must not be a problem"
-A simple-minded, self-centered philosophy that is the cornerstone of Tea Party/Republican thinking.
| 55 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:55:13pm |
re: #53 jamesfirecat
Not a valid argument, Unemployment spending has a positive ROI due to how it stimulates the economy, and gives us more than a dollar of economic stimulus for every dollar spent...
Nancy?
/
| 56 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:55:41pm |
re: #42 brookly red
well how do you feel about negative ROI?
Just fine. And were I in their situation I would hope they would reciprocate. "Investing" in humans isn't, IMO, about the profit you hope to squeeze back out of them.
| 57 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:55:44pm |
re: #47 recusancy
What have we gotten back from you since you've cashed all your unemployment checks?
you and Rand make a fine couple
| 58 |
dragonfire1981 Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:55:57pm |
You should probably be Christian and very much white,
And want all minorities placed out of your sight,
Always believing that Glenn Beck is right.
Always tuned in to that Alex Jones show,
That Mr. Obama, he has just to go.
He probably wasn't born here know.
A Tea Party hero is something to be
A Tea Party hero is something to be
You think you've assembled a great budget plan,
Just cut all the science throughout the whole land,
And give your all your socon buddies a hand.
You just can't get enough of that Pam Gellers site,
Her rants about Muslims, she's probably right.
After all that's what you saw on Fox news tonight.
A Tea Party hero is something to be
A Tea Party hero is something to be
| 59 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:56:38pm |
re: #47 recusancy
What have we gotten back from you since you've cashed all your unemployment checks?
fuck you asshole... I got cut off long ago. Now I live off of intelligent decisions I made in the past while I was working. Sorry but take your hate elsewhere.
| 60 |
Petero1818 Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:57:02pm |
For a few year already, Israel gets no "economic aid" from the US by virtue of the fact that their economy is on par with many industrialized nations. It does however get 3B in military aid. What does the US get in return? Well, most of that money comes back to the US, through purchase of arms. So if anyone is being subsidized, it is the military industrial complex in the US, and the numerous jobs it provides. Secondly, and no less important, Israel has always been and remains an important strategic ally and a country that shares similar values (rare in the region). While Israel is not without fault, and certainly has its share of disagreements with America I think it is fair to say, that of all the aid money the US has given out across the world, that which it has given to Israel has been the most beneficial to American interests and the American economy.
| 61 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:57:35pm |
re: #59 brookly red
fuck you asshole... I got cut off long ago. Now I live off of intelligent decisions I made in the past while I was working. Sorry but take your hate elsewhere.
Hypocritical rage.
| 62 |
PhillyPretzel Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:57:40pm |
Commentary Magazine Contentions column: [Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]
Rand Paul bit is 3rd one down
| 63 |
JoyousMN Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:57:49pm |
re: #58 dragonfire1981
That's pretty good. I can hear Marianne Faithful growling those lyrics. LOL
| 64 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:58:03pm |
re: #51 reine.de.tout
See, this is why I do not like this term, ROI.
Again, there are things we do because in order to make progress, we need to do to get a "return on investment", or in other words, "be effective".
Then there are things we do (or should do) because it's simply the right thing to do, where the effectiveness is measured in terms of kindness or charity (meaning love), not because we'll get anything "back".
we do what is in our best interest, period. if some one wants to claim otherwise let them.
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:58:11pm |
re: #58 dragonfire1981
If you can fix it, last line, 2nd stanza--"y'know".
"Everybody wants to be an editor."
| 66 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:58:54pm |
re: #65 Decatur Deb
If you can fix it, last line, 2nd stanza--"y'know".
"Everybody wants to be an editor."
Editors=GrammarNazis.
/
| 67 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:59:00pm |
| 68 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 6:59:26pm |
re: #13 recusancy
I don't think it's a loan we're giving them. We don't get paid back.
Actually, much of what's "given" to Israel is in the form of loan guarantees. We guarantee their loans. So in that way, they are paying for them. It's not money out of the taxpayers pocket. We've been doing this for decades and Israel has never defaulted on any loan.
Table of Loan Guarantees to Israel
[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]
20 October 2010 - U.S.–Israel Joint Economic Development Group Meeting
[Link: www.america.gov...]
| 69 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:01:07pm |
re: #68 marjoriemoon
Actually, much of what's "given" to Israel is in the form of loan guarantees. We guarantee their loans. So in that way, they are paying for them. It's not money out of the taxpayers pocket. We've been doing this for decades and Israel has never defaulted on any loan.
Table of Loan Guarantees to Israel
[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]20 October 2010 - U.S.–Israel Joint Economic Development Group Meeting
[Link: www.america.gov...]
well but, but, but... whaaaaah!
| 70 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:02:05pm |
re: #64 brookly red
we do what is in our best interest, period. if some one wants to claim otherwise let them.
At this rate meerkats are going to be better social animals than humans.
| 71 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:02:47pm |
re: #68 marjoriemoon
Actually, much of what's "given" to Israel is in the form of loan guarantees. We guarantee their loans. So in that way, they are paying for them. It's not money out of the taxpayers pocket. We've been doing this for decades and Israel has never defaulted on any loan.
Table of Loan Guarantees to Israel
[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]20 October 2010 - U.S.–Israel Joint Economic Development Group Meeting
[Link: www.america.gov...]
That's the economic aid no? We also give them military aid which we don't get back.
| 72 |
BishopX Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:03:43pm |
re: #68 marjoriemoon
You know, next to progressive taxation I think the idea of loan guarantees is probably the least understood economic policy concept. You need to keep them on the budget as an expense...but you don't necessarily have to pay them out. This confuses a lot of people, who assume that if it's budgeted then it's been spent.
| 73 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:03:58pm |
re: #70 prononymous
At this rate meerkats are going to be better social animals than humans.
/oh yes go on and save the world...
| 74 |
Ojoe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:04:22pm |
re: #11 marjoriemoon
Pretty obvious who gives to humanity at large, it's the Jews.
& there's Genesis 12 -3 to think about here too.
If anyone still believes that stuff.
| 75 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:04:35pm |
| 76 |
Renaissance_Man Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:04:39pm |
re: #70 prononymous
At this rate meerkats are going to be better social animals than humans.
Only in the minds of a few does 'doing what's in your best interest' always mean making sure someone else gets stiffed.
| 77 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:04:39pm |
re: #71 recusancy
That's the economic aid no? We also give them military aid which we don't get back.
time to put up some support for your assertion...should be easy enough
| 78 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:04:44pm |
Let's stop all aid to Israel. When they get attacked and kick other countries asses and the UN bitches, stop aid to the UN. NEXT!!
| 79 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:04:51pm |
re: #68 marjoriemoon
President Obama's Fiscal Year 2010 budget proposes $53.8 billion for appropriated international affairs' programs. From that budget, $5.7 billion is appopriated for foreign military financing, military education, and peacekeeping operations. From that $5.7 billion, $2.8 billion, almost 50% is appropriated for Israel.[40] Israel also has available roughly $3 billion of conditional loan guarantees, with additional funds coming available if Israel meets conditions negotiated at the U.S.-Israel Joint Economic Development Group (JEDG).
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 80 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:05:08pm |
re: #60 Petero1818
For a few year already, Israel gets no "economic aid" from the US by virtue of the fact that their economy is on par with many industrialized nations. It does however get 3B in military aid. What does the US get in return? Well, most of that money comes back to the US, through purchase of arms. So if anyone is being subsidized, it is the military industrial complex in the US, and the numerous jobs it provides. Secondly, and no less important, Israel has always been and remains an important strategic ally and a country that shares similar values (rare in the region). While Israel is not without fault, and certainly has its share of disagreements with America I think it is fair to say, that of all the aid money the US has given out across the world, that which it has given to Israel has been the most beneficial to American interests and the American economy.
The truth about Area 51: Operation Have Doughnut and the Israeli connection.
| 81 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:05:34pm |
re: #76 Renaissance_Man
Only in the minds of a few does 'doing what's in your best interest' always mean making sure someone else gets stiffed.
yup.
| 82 |
zora Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:05:42pm |
re: #41 jaunte
It's not a bad idea to reexamine foreign aid expenditures in general, but singling out Israel at this particular time is really block-headed.
it's the magical balance fairy as diplomacy.
BLITZER: What about the $2 billion or $3 billion that goes every year to Israel? Do you want to eliminate that as well?PAUL: Well, I think what you have to do is you have to look. When you send foreign aid, you actually quite a bit to Israel's enemies, Islamic nations around Israel get quite a bit of foreign aid, too.
BLITZER: Egypt gets almost the same amount?
PAUL: Almost the same amount so really you have to ask yourself, are we funding an arms race on both sides? I have a lot of sympathy and respect for Israel as a democratic nation, as a, you know, a fountain of piece and a fountain of democracy within the Middle East.
But at the same time, I don't think funding both sides of the arm race, particularly when we have to borrow the money from China to send it to someone else. We just can't do it anymore. The debt is all consuming and it threatens our well being as a country.
BLITZER: All right, so just to be precise, end all foreign aid including the foreign aid to Israel as well. Is that right?
PAUL: Yes.
[Link: transcripts.cnn.com...]
| 83 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:06:17pm |
re: #76 Renaissance_Man
Only in the minds of a few does 'doing what's in your best interest' always mean making sure someone else gets stiffed.
Exactly. Sometimes what's in your best interest is making sure the other members of your society, tribe, etc are in good condition.
| 84 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:06:26pm |
| 85 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:07:50pm |
re: #64 brookly red
we do what is in our best interest, period. if some one wants to claim otherwise let them.
I claim otherwise.
I do not always do exactly what's in my personal best interest, when the greater good is served by my doing something else.
And anyone who wants to claim that there are those of us who do that, let 'em. They're wrong.
| 86 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:07:53pm |
re: #80 Shiplord Kirel
The truth about Area 51: Operation Have Doughnut and the Israeli connection.
My comment from that link:
The enormous haul of Soviet bloc equipment from the 6 Day War was probably the greatest technical intelligence coup since World War 2. Much of the gear, tanks for instance, was familiar in the west, but there were some real bonanzas as well. A complete SA2 surface-to-air missile battery was captured intact, for example. This was at a time when the SA2 was in heavy use against American aircraft in Vietnam. Another surprise was the Soviets' best field artillery piece, the S-23. This had been seen in Red Square parades, but western analysts did not know even its true caliber (180 mm) until the Israelis came up with captured specimens and a large stock of ammunition. Russian anti-tank missiles and surveillance radar were also part of the loot.
Israel's willingness to share this with the US was one reason for the lifting of the embargo and the eventual decision to provide outright military aid.
| 87 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:07:55pm |
re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar
Let's stop all aid to Israel. When they get attacked and kick other countries asses and the UN bitches, stop aid to the UN. NEXT!!
no let's stop aid to the UN first, what exactly do they do? Have they even made a single statement regarding Egypt? Anything? Anything at all?
No, I didn't think so.
| 88 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:08:06pm |
re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar
Let's stop all aid to Israel. When they get attacked and kick other countries asses and the UN bitches, stop aid to the UN. NEXT!!
excellent idea, but why wait?....who gets more of our money, Israel or the UN?
| 89 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:09:05pm |
re: #87 brookly red
no let's stop aid to the UN first, what exactly do they do? Have they even made a single statement regarding Egypt? Anything? Anything at all?
No, I didn't think so.
They are working on a strongly worded letter...or something...
| 90 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:10:31pm |
re: #88 albusteve
excellent idea, but why wait?...who gets more of our money, Israel or the UN?
Can we turn the UN into condos, tax the property and help NYC with financial problems?
| 91 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:11:02pm |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
Can we turn the UN into condos, tax the property and help NYC with financial problems?
THE RENT IS TOO HIGH!
| 92 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:11:11pm |
re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar
They are working on a strongly worded letter...or something...
yes indeed... so where is the UN? they keep asking for more money, but where are they?
| 93 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:11:37pm |
| 94 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:11:47pm |
| 95 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:11:49pm |
re: #71 recusancy
That's the economic aid no? We also give them military aid which we don't get back.
They purchase from us and their soldiers train with us.
| 96 |
Surabaya Stew Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:12:14pm |
re: #69 brookly red
Facinating....had no idea that Israel didn't even come close to borrowing as much money as they could have. I'm supposing it acts something as a backup lending fund for them, which in turn acts to help lower their cost of borrowing from other sources. Or is just another form of security guarantee for them. One that actually doesn't cost us taxpayers much money.
Wait, isn't this a smart idea? Why is this being criticized at all?
Oh right, the Pauls are total asses...duh!
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:12:52pm |
re: #92 brookly red
yes indeed... so where is the UN? they keep asking for more money, but where are they?
If we give them money, they need to paint their helmets a better color. Pussies.
| 98 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:13:45pm |
re: #85 reine.de.tout
I claim otherwise.
I do not always do exactly what's in my personal best interest, when the greater good is served by my doing something else.And anyone who wants to claim that there are those of us who do that, let 'em. They're wrong.
Here here!
Just because it may not be in someones make-up doesn't mean that it isn't in others.
| 99 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:13:52pm |
re: #88 albusteve
excellent idea, but why wait?...who gets more of our money, Israel or the UN?
Israel gets more.
| 101 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:15:07pm |
re: #87 brookly red
no let's stop aid to the UN first, what exactly do they do? Have they even made a single statement regarding Egypt? Anything? Anything at all?
No, I didn't think so.
The UN gives aid to refugees living in Egypt under their UNRWA program. What's going to happen to that money in the future? Maybe the better question is what happens to that money now? Typically, the refugees see little of it. Same goes for Jordan and the Israeli territories. I'll give you 3 guesses what happens to it.
| 102 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:15:11pm |
re: #72 BishopX
You know, next to progressive taxation I think the idea of loan guarantees is probably the least understood economic policy concept. You need to keep them on the budget as an expense...but you don't necessarily have to pay them out. This confuses a lot of people, who assume that if it's budgeted then it's been spent.
It's more complex--we buy military materiel from IWI, Rafael, IAI, and a lot of others. Some is part of joint US-Israeli ventures, some goes to other nations. Nothing in the ME is simple, some is incopmprehensible.
| 103 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:15:40pm |
re: #100 albusteve
great!
We pay UN roughly 900mil and Israel 3bil. You asked. I'm not for defunding either.
| 104 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:15:41pm |
Given what we spend on intelligence every year (80 billion + by even a strict definition), the 3 billion for Israel is probably worth it just to keep them as an intelligence asset.
| 105 |
Ojoe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:16:14pm |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
If we give them money, they need to paint their helmets a better color. Pussies.
| 106 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:16:40pm |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
If we give them money, they need to paint their helmets a better color. Pussies.
Really, this Egypt thing has been going on for what? 2 weeks now? and the UN has made even 1 statement? Hard to explain, from an ROI point of view...
| 107 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:16:45pm |
re: #96 Surabaya Stew
Oh right, the Pauls are total asses...duh!
Clearly the Paul family needs to move to Columbia and leave the rest of us alone...
| 108 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:16:51pm |
| 109 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:17:33pm |
re: #101 marjoriemoon
The UN gives aid to refugees living in Egypt under their UNRWA program. What's going to happen to that money in the future? Maybe the better question is what happens to that money now? Typically, the refugees see little of it. Same goes for Jordan and the Israeli territories. I'll give you 3 guesses what happens to it.
whores, booze & more whores?
| 110 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:17:36pm |
re: #101 marjoriemoon
The UN gives aid to refugees living in Egypt under their UNRWA program. What's going to happen to that money in the future? Maybe the better question is what happens to that money now? Typically, the refugees see little of it. Same goes for Jordan and the Israeli territories. I'll give you 3 guesses what happens to it.
The question is, is that the UN's fault of Egypt's? Or both to some degree? And what can be done to fix this problem?
| 111 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:17:51pm |
re: #106 brookly red
Really, this Egypt thing has been going on for what? 2 weeks now? and the UN has made even 1 statement? Hard to explain, from an ROI point of view...
Trying to remember what the UN said about the Iran hubbub. (seriously)
| 112 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:18:18pm |
| 113 |
Mocking Jay Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:18:40pm |
re: #106 brookly red
Really, this Egypt thing has been going on for what? 2 weeks now? and the UN has made even 1 statement? Hard to explain, from an ROI point of view...
Ban Ki Moon said something about the violence.
| 114 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:19:00pm |
re: #108 Cannadian Club Akbar
More manly...
/
I'm thinking an ancient Roman helmet. That would freak the conspiracy theorists out.
| 115 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:19:36pm |
re: #111 Cannadian Club Akbar
Trying to remember what the UN said about the Iran hubbub. (seriously)
In both cases they are shying away from "internal affairs". They probably realize any statement or uninvited action would just set things off.
| 116 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:19:54pm |
re: #113 JasonA
Ban Ki Moon said something about the violence.
paying 1,000 bucks an hour to get spanked dose not really count as violence.
| 117 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:20:56pm |
re: #115 Decatur Deb
In both cases they are shying away from "internal affairs". They probably realize any statement or uninvited action would just set things off.
OK. But if Israel tries to defend herself, try to shut the UN up.
| 118 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:21:41pm |
re: #116 brookly red
paying 1,000 bucks an hour to get spanked dose not really count as violence.
LOL
| 120 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:22:10pm |
Hey... we could move the UN to Cairo. Just a thought.
| 122 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:22:44pm |
re: #117 Cannadian Club Akbar
OK. But if Israel tries to defend herself, try to shut the UN up.
I see the UN as something that could be a great force for good in the world... not that it necessarily is, but it doubtlessly has the capacity to be one... so I must ask... is this a problem inherent to the current version of the UN and how it is set up, or is it a problem brought about by what nations currently make up the UN?
| 123 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:22:47pm |
re: #120 brookly red
Hey... we could move the UN to Cairo. Just a thought.
I hear there is a Presidential Palace soon to be free..
//
| 125 |
jc717 Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:23:45pm |
re: #41 jaunte
It's not a bad idea to reexamine foreign aid expenditures in general, but singling out Israel at this particular time is really block-headed.
If you read the whole article, he didn't single out Israel. He said that he wants to get rid of all foreign aid.
Not that I want to defend either Paul as I disagree with 99% of what they stand for.
| 126 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:23:59pm |
| 127 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:24:29pm |
re: #122 jamesfirecat
I see the UN as something that could be a great force for good in the world... not that it necessarily is, but it doubtlessly has the capacity to be one... so I must ask... is this a problem inherent to the current version of the UN and how it is set up, or is it a problem brought about by what nations currently make up the UN?
Look to the past for nations on the Human Rights division. I would start there.
| 128 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:25:40pm |
re: #124 PhillyPretzel
Perfect for the United Nations. /
I saw that helmet in a commercial for Girls Gone Wild!!
| 129 |
JoyousMN Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:26:48pm |
re: #87 brookly red
no let's stop aid to the UN first, what exactly do they do? Have they even made a single statement regarding Egypt? Anything? Anything at all?
No, I didn't think so.
And you would be wrong. I found a google page full of results just now.
[Link: www.un.org...]
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has several entries since the protests started.
[Link: www.voanews.com...]
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 130 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:27:04pm |
re: #122 jamesfirecat
I see the UN as something that could be a great force for good in the world... not that it necessarily is, but it doubtlessly has the capacity to be one... so I must ask... is this a problem inherent to the current version of the UN and how it is set up, or is it a problem brought about by what nations currently make up the UN?
The difference between could be and is, is the whole freaking point... they are worthless. Defund them & send them home.
| 131 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:27:08pm |
re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar
Look to the past for nations on the Human Rights division. I would start there.
So in other words you'd argue that the UN needs to be more selective in what nations it allows to join?
| 132 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:27:10pm |
re: #121 Ojoe
I wasn't thinking the feather boa version. /
| 133 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:27:44pm |
re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar
Look to the past for nations on the Human Rights division. I would start there.
the HRC is a farce, a deadly farce
| 134 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:27:46pm |
re: #79 recusancy
President Obama's Fiscal Year 2010 budget proposes $53.8 billion for appropriated international affairs' programs. From that budget, $5.7 billion is appopriated for foreign military financing, military education, and peacekeeping operations. From that $5.7 billion, $2.8 billion, almost 50% is appropriated for Israel.[40] Israel also has available roughly $3 billion of conditional loan guarantees, with additional funds coming available if Israel meets conditions negotiated at the U.S.-Israel Joint Economic Development Group (JEDG).
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Here's a better explanation of it which also gives the history of the funding.
[Link: www.hcs.harvard.edu...]
Unlike these special packages, Israel’s annual assistance goes towards specific expenses year after year. After Israel receives them, American ESF [Economic Support Funds] essentially return to the U.S. to repay large debts Israel incurred borrowing money from the U.S. to finance its military.15 Today, even after years of repayment, Israel’s debt is still around $3 billion.16 Military aid, on the other hand, is exchanged for goods, specifically weapons. Israel’s annual defense spending amounts to a little over 10 percent of the country’s GDP, or around $10 billion. Of that, American FMF [Foreign Military Financing] accounts for about $2 billion and is the portion of the defense budget used mainly for weapons procurement from both Israeli and American contractors.17
Note that this is an unbiased article which addresses pros and cons regarding aid to Israel. Not that I agree with the criticisms.
| 135 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:27:56pm |
re: #130 brookly red
The difference between could be and is, is the whole freaking point... they are worthless. Defund them & send them home.
If they are a worthless waste of money then I want to at least figure out why, so that they can either be reformed along more effective lines, or to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes again later on....
| 136 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:28:02pm |
re: #131 jamesfirecat
So in other words you'd argue that the UN needs to be more selective in what nations it allows to join?
How about we hold all nations to the same standards?
| 137 |
zora Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:29:26pm |
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Rand Paul's Lonely Battle Against Aid to Israel
link has responses to paul from across the political spectrum.
| 138 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:29:45pm |
re: #129 JoyousMN
Obviously perception isn't always reality. lol.
| 139 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:29:51pm |
re: #135 jamesfirecat
If they are a worthless waste of money then I want to at least figure out why, so that they can either be reformed along more effective lines, or to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes again later on...
OK I will meet you half way. First we move them to Cairo & then we work on reform. Deal?
| 140 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:29:55pm |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
How about we hold all nations to the same standards?
*with the exception of the USA.
| 141 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:30:26pm |
After all of his talk as the revised Rand "Blowback" Paul pledging his support for Israel he comes out and essentially calls Israel a "welfare state". At the same time all of the Tea Party drones fall in line like good soldiers while we see the far left and the far right fall in agreement with Senator Paul.
| 142 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:30:32pm |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
How about we hold all nations to the same standards?
That sounds like a fine idea (non sarcasm) now how can we see to it that the UN starts to do that and in what way is it currently failing to?
(Asking question honestly not trying to mock you)
| 143 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:30:38pm |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
How about we hold all nations to the same standards?
except Israel of course.
| 144 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:30:40pm |
| 145 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:31:10pm |
re: #135 jamesfirecat
If they are a worthless waste of money then I want to at least figure out why, so that they can either be reformed along more effective lines, or to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes again later on...
You're talking to the wrong person if this is what you're after.
| 146 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:31:50pm |
re: #110 jamesfirecat
The question is, is that the UN's fault of Egypt's? Or both to some degree? And what can be done to fix this problem?
Nothing really. It was the same problem during the Clinton administration when we complained about the Palestinian school texts which rewrote the entire history and completely wrote Israel off the map. The money for their schools were given through UNRWA. Clinton put pressure on the UN to do something about the funding, but not much happened. I don't think Bush even tackled it.
After Arafat's death, it was made public that he embezzled most of those funds. The UN knew. The U.S. knew. So did Israel. We'd all been barking about it for decades to no avail.
| 147 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:32:17pm |
| 148 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:32:49pm |
re: #142 jamesfirecat
That sounds like a fine idea (non sarcasm) now how can we see to it that the UN starts to do that and in what way is it currently failing to?
(Asking question honestly not trying to mock you)
I don't think all the corruption inside the UN could be uncovered in an entire lifetime...they are their own overseers, sort of like the Mafia...there is nobody to impose reform
| 149 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:33:25pm |
re: #147 mracb
We don't already?
What happened to that boy, makings a hanging by execution look merciful by comparison....
(shudder)
| 150 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:33:33pm |
re: #142 jamesfirecat
That sounds like a fine idea (non sarcasm) now how can we see to it that the UN starts to do that and in what way is it currently failing to?
(Asking question honestly not trying to mock you)
As a non small gubment person, (I hate to have to say this) let's have actually oversite to where the money goes.
(see Kofi Annan's son, oil for food, back door oil deals, etc.)
| 151 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:34:06pm |
re: #147 mracb
We don't already?
I think you might have missed the implied 'state sanctioned' angle...you a UN lover?
| 152 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:34:21pm |
| 153 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:34:49pm |
re: #148 albusteve
I don't think all the corruption inside the UN could be uncovered in an entire lifetime...they are their own overseers, sort of like the Mafia...there is nobody to impose reform
That's actually a rather interesting point Steve (non sarcasm) of course it raises the head scratcher of who would be best suited in order to handle such a task?
| 154 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:01pm |
re: #133 albusteve
the HRC is a farce, a deadly farce
HRC typically stands for Human Rights Campaign. They have nothing to do with the UN. The UN commission is called United Nations Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR).
| 155 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:12pm |
re: #148 albusteve
I don't think all the corruption inside the UN could be uncovered in an entire lifetime...they are their own overseers, sort of like the Mafia...there is nobody to impose reform
You said it, right there. And they aren't going anywhere either, I guess like the mafia.
| 156 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:13pm |
re: #52 brookly red
none if the world thinks we won't use it.
Are you kidding? Based on our history over the last century, who the fuck on this planet thinks the US won't use its military?
| 157 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:17pm |
re: #150 Cannadian Club Akbar
As a non small gubment person, (I hate to have to say this) let's have actually oversite to where the money goes.
(see Kofi Annan's son, oil for food, back door oil deals, etc.)
/but, but, but the whores will starve! Why do you hate whores?
| 158 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:37pm |
re: #153 jamesfirecat
That's actually a rather interesting point Steve (non sarcasm) of course it raises the head scratcher of who would be best suited in order to handle such a task?
The Vatican.
| 159 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:42pm |
re: #156 palomino
Are you kidding? Based on our history over the last century, who the fuck on this planet thinks the US won't use its military?
Iran.
| 160 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:35:55pm |
re: #151 albusteve
I think you might have missed the implied 'state sanctioned' angle...you a UN lover?
It could be much better, but you work towards world peace with the UN you have, not the UN you wish you had or the UN you may have in the future.
| 161 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:36:18pm |
Is it just me, or is the site loading like 20 times faster now? Glad for the technical tweaks.
| 162 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:36:19pm |
OT- 2 of my drunk friends are arguing politics-glad to ignore them and sit with ya'll.:)
| 163 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:37:18pm |
re: #161 BryanS
Is it just me, or is the site loading like 20 times faster now? Glad for the technical tweaks.
It's the crack.
/score me a $150 for $100
| 164 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:37:59pm |
re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar
OT- 2 of my drunk friends are arguing politics-glad to ignore them and sit with ya'll.:)
Good thing nobody argues politics in here!
| 165 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:38:05pm |
| 166 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:38:29pm |
re: #153 jamesfirecat
That's actually a rather interesting point Steve (non sarcasm) of course it raises the head scratcher of who would be best suited in order to handle such a task?
I don't think it can be, since the Sec Generals always seem to turn a blind eye...and I doubt the UN would allow independent investigations...maybe the threat of a pullout by the big funders...the problems are colossal
| 167 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:38:34pm |
| 168 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:38:48pm |
re: #164 mracb
Good thing nobody argues politics in here!
In cyberspace, no one can hear you scream!!
/that SO WORKED!!!
| 169 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:38:55pm |
re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar
OT- 2 of my drunk friends are arguing politics-glad to ignore them and sit with ya'll.:)
A libertarian and a conservative?
| 170 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:38:55pm |
re: #159 brookly red
Iran.
Unfortunately, some irrational Iranian leaders do think that. I don't know--I think Obama has fight in him if needed. Just ask the Pakistanis if they think we use our military too infrequently in their territory.
| 171 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:39:00pm |
| 173 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:39:18pm |
re: #154 Gus 802
HRC typically stands for Human Rights Campaign. They have nothing to do with the UN. The UN commission is called United Nations Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR).
yeah those guys, thanks
| 174 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:39:25pm |
re: #134 marjoriemoon
Here's a better explanation of it which also gives the history of the funding.
[Link: www.hcs.harvard.edu...]
Note that this is an unbiased article which addresses pros and cons regarding aid to Israel. Not that I agree with the criticisms.
After Israel receives them, American ESF [Economic Support Funds] essentially return to the U.S. to repay large debts Israel incurred borrowing money from the U.S. to finance its military
So we give them money to pay back what we loan them.
| 175 |
zora Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:39:47pm |
| 176 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:39:48pm |
| 177 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:03pm |
re: #170 BryanS
Unfortunately, some irrational Iranian leaders do think that. I don't know--I think Obama has fight in him if needed. Just ask the Pakistanis if they think we use our military too infrequently in their territory.
with their permission against a common threat...
| 178 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:17pm |
| 179 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:25pm |
re: #159 brookly red
Iran.
In the last decade, we've invaded two of Iran's closest neighbors. Why would they think they're untouchable?
If the Iranians think we're not gonna at least bomb their nuke factories, they're deluded.
At this point we can't invade Iran since it's huge and we're a little preoccupied nearby.
| 180 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:27pm |
They are trying to suck me in. State money vs. County money, etc. But they are giving me free beer.:)
| 181 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:30pm |
In other news...
New GOP Bill Would Allow Hospitals To Let Women Die Instead Of Having An Abortion
...
The bill, known currently as H.R. 358 or the "Protect Life Act," would amend the 2010 health care reform law that would modify the way Obamacare deals with abortion coverage. Much of its language is modeled on the so-called Stupak Amendment, an anti-abortion provision pro-life Democrats attempted to insert into the reform law during the health care debate last year. But critics say a new language inserted into the bill just this week would go far beyond Stupak, allowing hospitals that receive federal funds but are opposed to abortions to turn away women in need of emergency pregnancy termination to save their lives.
The sponsor of H.R. 358, Rep. Joe Pitts (R-PA) is a vocal member of the House's anti-abortion wing. A member of the bipartisan Pro-Life Caucus and a co-sponsor of H.R 3 -- the bill that added "forcible rape" to the lexicon this week -- Pitts is no stranger to the abortion debate. But pro-choice advocates say his new law goes farther than any other bill has in encroaching on the rights of women to obtain an abortion when their health is at stake. They say the bill is giant leap away from accepted law, and one they haven't heard many in the pro-life community openly discuss before.
...
| 182 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:33pm |
re: #160 mracb
It could be much better, but you work towards world peace with the UN you have, not the UN you wish you had or the UN you may have in the future.
wrong, the UN is an impediment to world peace imo...the US should relieve ourselves of their burden
| 184 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:41:49pm |
re: #176 Cannadian Club Akbar
They don't know. All over the board.
The so-cons and libertarians are going at each other on Redstate, lately.
| 185 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:42:26pm |
re: #174 recusancy
A non-trivial chunk of our so called "foreign aid" is a way of helping our own business by way of another country.
| 186 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:42:30pm |
re: #179 palomino
In the last decade, we've invaded two of Iran's closest neighbors. Why would they think they're untouchable?
If the Iranians think we're not gonna at least bomb their nuke factories, they're deluded.
At this point we can't invade Iran since it's huge and we're a little preoccupied nearby.
really?
| 187 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:42:33pm |
re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar
They are trying to suck me in. State money vs. County money, etc. But they are giving me free beer.:)
Oh, Gawd, county? Gutter brawl!
| 188 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:42:44pm |
re: #184 prairiefire
The so-cons and libertarians are going at each other on Redstate, lately.
Let me re phrase. My friends are idiots. Too funny.
| 189 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:43:25pm |
re: #185 freetoken
A non-trivial chunk of our so called "foreign aid" is a way of helping our own business by way of another country.
Lockheed-Martin sure likes it.
| 190 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:43:42pm |
re: #177 brookly red
with their permission against a common threat...
Said permission granted at the end of a bayonet, I'd suppose.
| 192 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:43:56pm |
| 193 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:43:58pm |
re: #179 palomino
In the last decade, we've invaded two of Iran's closest neighbors. Why would they think they're untouchable?
If the Iranians think we're not gonna at least bomb their nuke factories, they're deluded.
At this point we can't invade Iran since it's huge and we're a little preoccupied nearby.
I think that John Stewart said it best and this was back in 2006/2007 when Iran Kidnapped those British Sailors...
"We may not be much for the nation re-building, but we're still top notch nation debuilders... we wouldn't even be sending people it'd just be pushing buttons..."
| 194 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:44:05pm |
| 195 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:44:12pm |
re: #181 Gus 802
In other news...
New GOP Bill Would Allow Hospitals To Let Women Die Instead Of Having An Abortion
can we get back to you on this? we are kinda talking war & peace.
| 197 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:44:30pm |
re: #174 recusancy
After Israel receives them, American ESF [Economic Support Funds] essentially return to the U.S. to repay large debts Israel incurred borrowing money from the U.S. to finance its military
So we give them money to pay back what we loan them.
We make it up in volume.
| 198 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:44:39pm |
re: #182 albusteve
wrong, the UN is an impediment to world peace imo...the US should relieve ourselves of their burden
You got any idea how to replace it or conduct organized international projects in it's absence?
| 199 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:44:49pm |
| 200 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:44:52pm |
| 201 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:45:03pm |
| 202 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:45:20pm |
re: #190 BryanS
Said permission granted at the end of a bayonet, I'd suppose.
/news flash... we dropped the bayonet years ago.
| 203 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:45:27pm |
re: #186 brookly red
really?
Yeah, really. Even the Arab countries in the region want us to bomb Iran. It's essentially a fait accompli. Only question is timing.
| 204 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:45:31pm |
| 205 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:45:37pm |
re: #195 brookly red
can we get back to you on this? we are kinda talking war & peace.
I thought we were talking the UN. I'm making a pizza which should be done soon. After I eat it I might collapse. It's a Digiorno all meat pizza. Chopped some garlic for it too.
| 206 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:45:45pm |
The argument here has dissolved into class warfare. My friends have neither. Heh.
| 207 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:46:15pm |
re: #198 mracb
You got any idea how to replace it or conduct organized international projects in it's absence?
no, but to figure it out would sure create a lot of good jobs, eh?
| 208 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:46:33pm |
re: #202 brookly red
/news flash... we dropped the bayonet years ago.
that is a news flash...why would you think that?
| 210 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:01pm |
re: #207 albusteve
no, but to figure it out would sure create a lot of good jobs, eh?
probably only for those who would screw us all over for profit.
| 211 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:03pm |
re: #193 jamesfirecat
I think that John Stewart said it best and this was back in 2006/2007 when Iran Kidnapped those British Sailors...
"We may not be much for the nation re-building, but we're still top notch nation debuilders... we wouldn't even be sending people it'd just be pushing buttons..."
And bombing wouldn't be the least bit controversial. The Iranian regime is widely hated and feared. And there's plenty of precedent for us blowing up shit in the Middle East when it threatens us or allies.
| 212 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:12pm |
re: #85 reine.de.tout
I claim otherwise.
I do not always do exactly what's in my personal best interest, when the greater good is served by my doing something else.And anyone who wants to claim that there are those of us who do that, let 'em. They're wrong.
That's our Reine!
*claps*
| 214 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:20pm |
re: #199 recusancy
Huh?
Old punchline--"We lose a little on every transaction, but we make it up in volume".
| 215 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:23pm |
re: #203 palomino
Yeah, really. Even the Arab countries in the region want us to bomb Iran. It's essentially a fait accompli. Only question is timing.
well I sure do hope you are right.
| 216 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:44pm |
| 217 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:45pm |
re: #146 marjoriemoon
Nothing really. It was the same problem during the Clinton administration when we complained about the Palestinian school texts which rewrote the entire history and completely wrote Israel off the map. The money for their schools were given through UNRWA. Clinton put pressure on the UN to do something about the funding, but not much happened. I don't think Bush even tackled it.
After Arafat's death, it was made public that he embezzled most of those funds. The UN knew. The U.S. knew. So did Israel. We'd all been barking about it for decades to no avail.
I had a Palestinian gay hairdresser back in the mid-90s. He made it to the States through Israel. He told me how Arafat's men and their families lived in their neighborhoods, drove Mercedes, wore expensive clothes and jewelry. He knew where they got their money.
It's farther reaching than the UN, of course. This article as written a year PRIOR to his death.
So far, Prince's team has determined that part of the Palestinian leader's wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion -- with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the U.S. and the Cayman Islands.Although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people; it was all controlled by Arafat. And, Prince says, none of these dealings were made public.
"Our whole point is to bring it out of control of any one person," Prince says.
That's what happened with the portfolio money, which is now under the control of Salam Fayyad, a former World Bank official who Arafat was forced to appoint finance minister last year after crowds began protesting his corrupt regime
So what has changed? Are the Palestinian people better off today? Oh yes, they have a water park and a mall, from what I understand.
So let's talk more about Israel and what it does with their funding. Oh that seems entirely appropriate. Yeesh.
| 218 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:46pm |
re: #214 Decatur Deb
Old punchline--"We lose a little on every transaction, but we make it up in volume".
LOL
| 219 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:47:52pm |
re: #211 palomino
And bombing wouldn't be the least bit controversial. The Iranian regime is widely hated and feared. And there's plenty of precedent for us blowing up shit in the Middle East when it threatens us or allies.
Funny thing about nationalism--it tends to show up when bombs are dropped on you.
| 220 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:48:17pm |
re: #148 albusteve
I don't think all the corruption inside the UN could be uncovered in an entire lifetime...they are their own overseers, sort of like the Mafia...there is nobody to impose reform
That's it in a nutshell.
| 221 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:48:34pm |
re: #182 albusteve
wrong, the UN is an impediment to world peace imo...the US should relieve ourselves of their burden
I'd rather stick around and keep an eye on them.
| 222 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:48:46pm |
re: #215 brookly red
well I sure do hope you are right.
Wow, that's almost leftist for you, I think. I'm still new and not sure of all the dynamics of peoples positions.
| 223 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:48:55pm |
re: #219 BryanS
Funny thing about nationalism--it tends to show up when bombs are dropped on you.
This.
| 224 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:48:59pm |
Plus they make the Global Hawk. They're still quite profitable. The combined companies that is. Kind of glad it didn't get swallowed up by Boeing.
| 225 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:49:18pm |
re: #205 Gus 802
I thought we were talking the UN. I'm making a pizza which should be done soon. After I eat it I might collapse. It's a Digiorno all meat pizza. Chopped some garlic for it too.
death by pizza? there is a place in heaven for you.
| 226 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:49:59pm |
re: #225 brookly red
death by pizza? there is a place in heaven for you.
And, it's got pineapple on it!
Hurts more...
| 227 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:50:00pm |
re: #221 marjoriemoon
I'd rather stick around and keep an eye on them.
Keep your friends close, your enemies closer. Though I do have to say typically the UN's various committees on human rights are too frequently farcical shows put on by tin pot dictators.
| 228 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:50:03pm |
re: #212 Floral Giraffe
That's our Reine!
*claps*
heh.
It's gotten me in some hot water more than once.
But . . .'s OK.
| 229 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:50:20pm |
My friend is now saying he makes $17 an hour and he is almost in poverty.
| 230 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:50:32pm |
re: #224 Gus 802
The way things were going a few years ago it looked like the whole aerospace industry was going to get wrapped up into only two companies: Boeing, and L-M.
| 231 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:50:54pm |
re: #222 mracb
Wow, that's almost leftist for you, I think. I'm still new and not sure of all the dynamics of peoples positions.
I am a registered Democrat in New York City.
| 232 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:51:03pm |
re: #224 Gus 802
Plus they make the Global Hawk. They're still quite profitable. The combined companies that is. Kind of glad it didn't get swallowed up by Boeing.
really bad ass machine
| 233 |
recusancy Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:51:15pm |
re: #222 mracb
Wow, that's almost leftist for you, I think. I'm still new and not sure of all the dynamics of peoples positions.
How is bombing Iran leftist?
| 234 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:51:28pm |
| 235 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:51:49pm |
re: #231 brookly red
I am a registered Democrat in New York City.
And if I lived in Texas I'd be a registered Republican....
| 236 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:51:55pm |
re: #226 Floral Giraffe
And, it's got pineapple on it!
Hurts more...
eternal damnation is supposed to hurt.
| 237 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:52:30pm |
| 238 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:52:39pm |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
My friend is now saying he makes $17 an hour and he is almost in poverty.
Depending on his expenses, that isn't a whole lot really. I mean, if he's living in mom's basement, ok. But if he has a mortgage, a car, insurance, etc. it goes pretty quickly.
| 239 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:52:51pm |
re: #235 jamesfirecat
And if I lived in Texas I'd be a registered Republican...
but you don't so again, blah, blah, blah.
| 240 |
PhillyPretzel Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:53:07pm |
My dear Mr Rand Paul your hypocrisy is showing. You are no friend of Israel.
| 241 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:53:15pm |
re: #238 marjoriemoon
Depending on his expenses, that isn't a whole lot really. I mean, if he's living in mom's basement, ok. But if he has a mortgage, a car, insurance, etc. it goes pretty quickly.
His mortgage is 1/4th of mine.
| 242 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:53:21pm |
re: #222 mracb
Wow, that's almost leftist for you, I think. I'm still new and not sure of all the dynamics of peoples positions.
I'm a liberal progressive commie/ in the mid west.
| 243 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:53:26pm |
| 244 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:53:31pm |
re: #219 BryanS
Funny thing about nationalism--it tends to show up when bombs are dropped on you.
That's a risk of course. Iranians may circle the wagons around Ahmajinedad. But so what, especially given how much of the rest of the region feels? I mean it's not like Arabs and other Middle Easterners who still support us after the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are gonna say, "All that stuff was OK, but we draw the line at bombing nuke facilities in a country we really fear."
| 245 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:54:02pm |
re: #239 brookly red
but you don't so again, blah, blah, blah.
If you lived in Ohio which party would you register with?
| 246 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:54:03pm |
| 247 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:54:15pm |
| 248 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:54:29pm |
re: #230 freetoken
The way things were going a few years ago it looked like the whole aerospace industry was going to get wrapped up into only two companies: Boeing, and L-M.
Yeah. I guess it's good that someone bought McDonald-Douglas though. Now they can provide product support. Had they not bought MD all of that product support would have disappeared save a few select vendors. Boeing kept itself afloat with their passenger airline business while companies like Lockheed and MD couldn't keep up (i.e. the L1011 and the DC-10 and variants). LM of course is out of the airline business. Now Boeing has to compete with Airbus and Embraer.
| 249 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:54:33pm |
| 250 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:54:47pm |
re: #245 jamesfirecat
If you lived in Ohio which party would you register with?
The one with the Space Ships!!!
/or hookers. Or both.
| 252 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:55:42pm |
Egypt right now - Sandmonkey's blog - read it here
I don't know how to start writing this. I have been battling fatigue for not sleeping properly for the past 10 days, moving from one's friend house to another friend's house, almost never spending a night in my home, facing a very well funded and well organized ruthless regime that views me as nothing but an annoying bug that its time to squash will come. The situation here is bleak to say the least.
| 253 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:55:43pm |
re: #244 palomino
That's a risk of course. Iranians may circle the wagons around Ahmajinedad. But so what, especially given how much of the rest of the region feels? I mean it's not like Arabs and other Middle Easterners who still support us after the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are gonna say, "All that stuff was OK, but we draw the line at bombing nuke facilities in a country we really fear."
I'm not saying it won't eventually need to come to that. But the same could have been said of Iraq. If we did that, I'd much prefer going in with the neighbors overtly supporting us, rather than covert support with overt condemnation.
| 254 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:56:53pm |
re: #246 brookly red
not likely
but you voted for him in 2008?
or at least for hillary in the primaries, right?
| 256 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:57:34pm |
re: #253 BryanS
I'm not saying it won't eventually need to come to that. But the same could have been said of Iraq. If we did that, I'd much prefer going in with the neighbors overtly supporting us, rather than covert support with overt condemnation.
Plausible deny ability.
| 257 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:57:50pm |
re: #248 Gus 802
Really scary when you look at the product lines, and the company purchases.
Disclosure, Dad worked at Ford for many years, the McDonald Douglas, then Boeing. I have models of turbine engine bits, that were scale models that Da designed. I suspect that life size models are flying as we chat.
| 258 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:57:54pm |
re: #228 reine.de.tout
Hey since it's moved on from the last thread.
Regarding Sandmonkey revealing himself. It's probably the best thing he could do at this point since it's clear that the authorities know who he is now. He's already an underground public figure, now he's becoming an above ground one. Going on CNN like he did makes it harder to be disappeared without ramifications because more people would pay attention.
Being public like this while definitely bringing more risk also offers it's own set of protections.
| 259 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:58:07pm |
re: #249 marjoriemoon
We'll have to keep working on ya then.
why? they just made it illegal to smoke on the street in NYC, but they can do so in Cairo?
| 260 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:58:14pm |
re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar
Gawd, I need smarter friends.
Then you end up with smart people driving you crazy.
//
| 262 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:58:56pm |
re: #260 Gus 802
Then you end up with smart people driving you crazy.
//
In that case, I'm safe with you!
///
| 263 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:04pm |
OK, nothing on collaboration of the Fox story of assassination attempt on the VP of Egypt?
WTF
| 264 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:11pm |
re: #259 brookly red
why? they just made it illegal to smoke on the street in NYC, but they can do so in Cairo?
so why not just join the gop?
| 265 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:13pm |
re: #258 Jadespring
Hey since it's moved on from the last thread.
Regarding Sandmonkey revealing himself. It's probably the best thing he could do at this point since it's clear that the authorities know who he is now. He's already an underground public figure, now he's becoming an above ground one. Going on CNN like he did makes it harder to be disappeared without ramifications because more people would pay attention.
Being public like this while definitely bringing more risk also offers it's own set of protections.
Good points! It does offer a certain set of protections.
I was just looking at his blog - he has a "donate" button - with the caption "emergency escape money". LOL. It's said that for years.
| 266 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:15pm |
re: #259 brookly red
why? they just made it illegal to smoke on the street in NYC, but they can do so in Cairo?
They Can do thing X in the Middle East, but not here in America....
That's really the argument you're gonna go with?
| 267 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:38pm |
| 268 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:48pm |
re: #263 Stanley Sea
OK, nothing on collaboration of the Fox story of assassination attempt on the VP of Egypt?
WTF
Nope. Not that I've seen.
| 269 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 7:59:56pm |
re: #254 palomino
but you voted for him in 2008?
or at least for hillary in the primaries, right?
no I was concerned about the effect on the economy... I worry about these things.
| 270 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:00:11pm |
re: #257 Floral Giraffe
Really scary when you look at the product lines, and the company purchases.
Disclosure, Dad worked at Ford for many years, the McDonald Douglas, then Boeing. I have models of turbine engine bits, that were scale models that Da designed. I suspect that life size models are flying as we chat.
The plan is to extend the life service of B-52s to 100 years. It's already been almost 65 years.
| 271 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:00:23pm |
re: #259 brookly red
why? they just made it illegal to smoke on the street in NYC, but they can do so in Cairo?
I was reading about that. Smoking's bad for ya anyway :p
Or are you thinking about setting up shop near one of the pyramids?
| 272 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:00:45pm |
re: #264 palomino
so why not just join the gop?
gag me...why join either party?...would somebody explain that to me?
| 273 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:01:25pm |
re: #264 palomino
so why not just join the gop?
Because he knows that no GOP candidate has a snowball's chance in hell of winning anything in New York so he votes for the most conservative democrat he can in the primaries.
He's a conservative who is trying to get the most out of his vote.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It is dishonest and wrong of him however when he tries to leverage the (true fact) that he's a New York democrat to make himself look like he speaks for all New York democrats or that something he supports must have non bi-partisan support from both Liberals and Conservatives.
Once again, if I was living in Texas or Arizona I'd be a Republican....
| 274 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:01:42pm |
re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar
Gawd, I need smarter friends.
I used to think I had great friends because we've all been friends for 50 years. I later realized we've been friends for 50 years was because nobody else ever wanted to be our friends. ;)
| 275 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:01:46pm |
re: #272 albusteve
gag me...why join either party?...would somebody explain that to me?
In Florida, voting in the primaries.
| 276 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:01:47pm |
re: #264 palomino
so why not just join the gop?
no we are just going to riot in the streets (when it gets warmer) and wait for Obama to tell Bloomberg to step down ;)
| 277 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:01:50pm |
re: #269 brookly red
no I was concerned about the effect on the economy... I worry about these things.
Vote Yes on legalizing pot. In fact, it will probably be cheaper than a pack of smokes.
| 278 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:02:05pm |
re: #266 jamesfirecat
They Can do thing X in the Middle East, but not here in America...
That's really the argument you're gonna go with?
It "worked" for Newt Gingrich. Remember his "GZ Mosque" argument: we shouldn't allow mosques until Saudis allow churches. Because our freedom of religion isn't based on concepts of human rights or the constitution, but rather on what foreign governments do.
| 279 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:02:21pm |
| 280 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:02:32pm |
re: #267 Stanley Sea
Same ole, same ole. gah
He can be a registered Democrat. He's far to the left of my last Democratic representative. NY hardhat Democrats busted hippie heads in the 60s. It actually is a BFTent.
| 281 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:02:36pm |
| 282 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:03:04pm |
re: #272 albusteve
gag me...why join either party?...would somebody explain that to me?
You get to vote in your primary, if you find that important, which I do.
| 283 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:03:17pm |
re: #277 marjoriemoon
Vote Yes on legalizing pot. In fact, it will probably be cheaper than a pack of smokes.
I am a conservative in favor of legal pot. But not decriminalization.
| 284 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:03:28pm |
re: #272 albusteve
gag me...why join either party?...would somebody explain that to me?
he joined the Dem party and all his talking points come from the gop. I'm just asking why about the disconnect.
| 285 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:06pm |
re: #281 albusteve
you can register indy can't you?
Yes, but no voting in the primaries if the gu you want has a D or R.
| 286 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:11pm |
re: #273 jamesfirecat
You could always be a Kinky Friedman Democrat in Texas.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 287 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:17pm |
re: #277 marjoriemoon
Vote Yes on legalizing pot. In fact, it will probably be cheaper than a pack of smokes.
please, here we give pot away to anyone who wants it... keeps them out of the job market.
| 288 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:27pm |
re: #279 Floral Giraffe
You said B-52's?
[Video]
Fred Schneider is almost as old as a B-52. He's 59.
//
| 289 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:28pm |
re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar
I am a conservative in favor of legal pot. But not decriminalization.
Huh?
| 290 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:30pm |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
Down here in San Diego, working for $17/hr won't get one far if they are living on their own.
| 291 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:32pm |
re: #263 Stanley Sea
OK, nothing on collaboration of the Fox story of assassination attempt on the VP of Egypt?
WTF
The only news stories I've found are other news outlets reporting what Fox news story said.
| 292 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:40pm |
re: #282 marjoriemoon
You get to vote in your primary, if you find that important, which I do.
ah, I confusing myself....I'm not exactly well tonight
| 293 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:50pm |
re: #273 jamesfirecat
Because he knows that no GOP candidate has a snowball's chance in hell of winning anything in New York so he votes for the most conservative democrat he can in the primaries.
He's a conservative who is trying to get the most out of his vote.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It is dishonest and wrong of him however when he tries to leverage the (true fact) that he's a New York democrat to make himself look like he speaks for all New York democrats or that something he supports must have non bi-partisan support from both Liberals and Conservatives.
Once again, if I was living in Texas or Arizona I'd be a Republican...
I don't go to church or believe in the Father, Son or Holy Spirit. But I'm a registered Episcopalian.
| 294 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:04:55pm |
re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar
I am a conservative in favor of legal pot. But not decriminalization.
I'd be satisfied with decriminalization as a starter.
| 295 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:05:03pm |
re: #273 jamesfirecat
Oh, James, you have so much faith! :)
| 296 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:05:28pm |
| 297 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:05:48pm |
| 298 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:06:21pm |
re: #276 brookly red
no we are just going to riot in the streets (when it gets warmer) and wait for Obama to tell Bloomberg to step down ;)
what does that even mean?
i guess i shouldn't have expected a serious answer.
| 299 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:06:41pm |
re: #290 freetoken
Down here in San Diego, working for $17/hr won't get one far if they are living on their own.
My house in SD would be worth about 1.5 mil. Honest. My friend's FIL had a house worth 750K there. Here would be 200K.
| 300 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:06:43pm |
re: #277 marjoriemoon
Vote Yes on legalizing pot. In fact, it will probably be cheaper than a pack of smokes.
Smoke pot and you won't be able to smoke cigs because you'll fall asleep.
//
| 301 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:06:45pm |
re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar
I am a conservative in favor of legal pot. But not decriminalization.
so am I....if someone want's to license and sell it then fine, tax that....like beer
| 302 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:06:55pm |
re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar
Decrim means the cops ignore your weed. Legal weed gets taxes.
well a pack of camels costs 14 bucks in NYC... how much do you think they would tax refer?
| 303 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:07:13pm |
re: #292 albusteve
ah, I confusing myself...I'm not exactly well tonight
Hubby is a registered Indy as a statement. He just hates parties and labels and all that, but he pretty much consistently votes Democrat. I always argue the point with him, that he leaves himself out of the primaries and we can use him.
| 304 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:07:30pm |
re: #302 brookly red
well a pack of camels costs 14 bucks in NYC... how much do you think they would tax refer?
30%
| 305 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:07:38pm |
re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar
Decrim means the cops ignore your weed. Legal weed gets taxes.
So tax pot, but still make it a crime to use/possess ? I still don't get that--or were you saying something else?
| 306 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:07:41pm |
re: #298 palomino
what does that even mean?
i guess i shouldn't have expected a serious answer.
that is serious... we are fed up with the BS.
| 307 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:07:53pm |
re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar
Decrim means the cops ignore your weed. Legal weed gets taxes.
So you feel the government should be able to sell you something and tax it, and then have the cops lock you up for it?
I think I must have misunderstood what you want in regards to pot...
| 308 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:08:00pm |
re: #302 brookly red
well a pack of camels costs 14 bucks in NYC... how much do you think they would tax refer?
Buy a motorhome and start a "rolling smoking lounge" business in NYC.
//
| 309 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:08:05pm |
re: #305 BryanS
So tax pot, but still make it a crime to use/possess ? I still don't get that--or were you saying something else?
Make it legal. Tax it.
| 310 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:08:11pm |
| 311 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:08:59pm |
re: #305 BryanS
So tax pot, but still make it a crime to use/possess ? I still don't get that--or were you saying something else?
re: #307 jamesfirecat
So you feel the government should be able to sell you something and tax it, and then have the cops lock you up for it?
I think I must have misunderstood what you want in regards to pot...
re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar
Make it legal. Tax it.
Hope this clafifies.
| 312 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:09:05pm |
I smoked some hash when I was in Israel (very long time ago).
Can I just say W.O.W.
| 313 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:09:14pm |
re: #303 marjoriemoon
Hubby is a registered Indy as a statement. He just hates parties and labels and all that, but he pretty much consistently votes Democrat. I always argue the point with him, that he leaves himself out of the primaries and we can use him.
I probably should not even try to post....I'm having an intense bout of pain, just trying to take my mind elsewhere
| 314 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:09:53pm |
re: #306 brookly red
that is serious... we are fed up with the BS.
"THE BS"? Again, what does that even mean. It sounds like a Beck/Limbaugh/Howard Beale slogan.
| 315 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:09:55pm |
re: #294 marjoriemoon
I'd be satisfied with decriminalization as a starter.
to tell you the truth it doesn't really make much difference besides the price, though I'd sure love to be able grow my own.
| 316 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:10:09pm |
re: #310 brookly red
30% of what?
A pack of weed cost $10. Tax 30%. Now 13 bucks. Still cheap.
(Hope I am eventually making sense)
| 317 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:10:11pm |
re: #313 albusteve
I probably should not even try to post...I'm having an intense bout of pain, just trying to take my mind elsewhere
wanna talk about the Feds?
| 318 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:10:40pm |
re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar
Make it legal. Tax it.
I don't see why anyone cares who smokes pot. I don't, but I don't give two sh!t5 if someone else does (as long as they don't provide it to minors)
| 319 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:10:55pm |
re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar
Decrim means the cops ignore your weed. Legal weed gets taxes.
Ha! You have your pot and want to smoke it too! Or something...
| 320 |
zora Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:11:07pm |
re: #281 albusteve
you can register indy can't you?
i'm registered indy. it has its drawbacks. can't vote in md primaries.
| 321 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:11:07pm |
re: #306 brookly red
that is serious... we are fed up with the BS.
when you say "we", you must mean you and your fellow NY Dems, right?
| 322 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:11:11pm |
re: #313 albusteve
I probably should not even try to post...I'm having an intense bout of pain, just trying to take my mind elsewhere
Ack... you have meds? Or I should change the subject maybe.
| 323 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:11:20pm |
re: #314 palomino
"THE BS"? Again, what does that even mean. It sounds like a Beck/Limbaugh/Howard Beale slogan.
well let them with ears hear.
| 324 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:11:41pm |
re: #318 BryanS
I don't see why anyone cares who smokes pot. I don't, but I don't give two sh!t5 if someone else does (as long as they don't provide it to minors)
Right. But let's make it legal, empty the legal system and make some cash.
| 325 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:11:46pm |
re: #312 marjoriemoon
I smoked some hash when I was in Israel (very long time ago).
Can I just say W.O.W.
///Did you inhale?
| 326 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:12:00pm |
re: #299 Cannadian Club Akbar
My house in SD would be worth about 1.5 mil. Honest. My friend's FIL had a house worth 750K there. Here would be 200K.
I did the same figuring at one time two. If I transported my house and property to Vancouver it would be worth about 700,000 more then it is now.
Hence why I live here, rather then there.
I make less here then I did there and have more money. There I'd be scraping by in a crappy apartment. I paid 300 dollar more per month in rent for an apartment then I do on my house mortgage here.
| 327 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:12:10pm |
re: #312 marjoriemoon
I smoked some hash when I was in Israel (very long time ago).
Can I just say W.O.W.
OMG, those where the days.
Sam Kinison: "You can keep the crack! Just give us back our pot!"
| 328 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:12:13pm |
re: #319 prairiefire
Ha! You have your pot and want to smoke it too! Or something...
And brownies!!!!
| 329 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:12:16pm |
One puff off a pellet of opium would fix that pain.
| 330 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:12:19pm |
re: #321 palomino
when you say "we", you must mean you and your fellow NY Dems, right?
how far are you willing to go?
| 332 |
Artist Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:12:43pm |
re: #181 Gus 802
How the fuck is this a Protect Life Act if this is to let women die as opposed to getting an abortion, considering that in a situation where one could save her life, the baby would die also anyways.
| 333 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:13:25pm |
re: #317 brookly red
wanna talk about the Feds?
heh....my oxycodone will not handle breakthrough pain....I'm fucked for a few more hours....been like this all since around noon
| 334 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:13:39pm |
re: #325 jamesfirecat
///Did you inhale?
I did LOL I guess I can't run for office then?
Two puffs. Two little measly puffs and I was stoned all day.
| 335 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:13:50pm |
re: #315 mracb
to tell you the truth it doesn't really make much difference besides the price, though I'd sure love to be able grow my own.
If you can brew your own beer (and my dad who has a good background for that kind of thing as a chem major does), you should be able to grow your own pot....
Only one of them causes cancer in and of itself, and you can only overdose on one of them, and guess which one it is....
| 336 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:14:17pm |
re: #323 brookly red
well let them with ears hear.
Just as cryptic and ultimately meaningless as most of your other posts. Well done, mission accomplished.
| 337 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:14:20pm |
re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar
Make it legal. Tax it.
This. Stop playing with the "decriminalization" crap. Just make it as legal as booze & tobacco, tax the snot out of and be done with it. Those who want it will pay and be happy, the rest of us will see utterly no difference except far fewer locked up for no reason.
| 338 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:14:21pm |
re: #335 jamesfirecat
If you can brew your own beer (and my dad who has a good background for that kind of thing as a chem major does), you should be able to grow your own pot...
Only one of them causes cancer in and of itself, and you can only overdose on one of them, and guess which one it is...
DON"T SAY ACID!!!!
| 340 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:14:35pm |
re: #333 albusteve
heh...my oxycodone will not handle breakthrough pain...I'm fucked for a few more hours...been like this all since around noon
sorry to hear that... I tried to distract you but hang in there.
| 341 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:14:44pm |
re: #329 mracb
One puff off a pellet of opium would fix that pain.
tell me about it...now there is a drug of choice
| 342 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:14:48pm |
re: #281 albusteve
you can register indy can't you?
In Louisiana, anybody registered to vote may vote in all primaries.
Not so in other states - you can vote in the Dem primary only if you are a registered Dem, etc.
Which is how it USED to be here, and way back in the day we essentially had a one-party state - Dem. Everybody was a registered Dem.
At some point, one of the governors, and I think it was a Dem governor, thought it would be a good idea to have "open" primaries, where everybody voted every election. I think he thought it would help keep the R party from making any inroads if everybody could vote in the primaries, regardless of affiliation.
It had the opposite effect - we now have an active Rep party. But the primaries are still "open". All candidates from all parties run in one primary election; if no one wins outright with more than 50% of the vote, the top candidates are in a run-off during the general election.
| 343 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:15:00pm |
re: #313 albusteve
Crap! Squeeze stress ball:[Link: www.officeplayground.com...]
| 344 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:15:27pm |
re: #335 jamesfirecat
If you can brew your own beer (and my dad who has a good background for that kind of thing as a chem major does), you should be able to grow your own pot...
Only one of them causes cancer in and of itself, and you can only overdose on one of them, and guess which one it is...
I once grew some plants 30 years ago. Even I can grow that plant.
| 345 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:15:52pm |
re: #337 wlewisiii
This. Stop playing with the "decriminalization" crap. Just make it as legal as booze & tobacco, tax the snot out of and be done with it. Those who want it will pay and be happy, the rest of us will see utterly no difference except far fewer locked up for no reason.
Difference is decriminalization means they user doesn't get arrested. Legalization means tax it like booze and smokes. There is a difference.
| 346 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:15:55pm |
re: #335 jamesfirecat
If you can brew your own beer (and my dad who has a good background for that kind of thing as a chem major does), you should be able to grow your own pot...
Only one of them causes cancer in and of itself, and you can only overdose on one of them, and guess which one it is...
preach it
| 347 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:16:02pm |
re: #312 marjoriemoon
I smoked some hash when I was in Israel (very long time ago).
Can I just say W.O.W.
It's like pot...on steroids. WOW is right.
| 348 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:16:14pm |
re: #335 jamesfirecat
If you can brew your own beer (and my dad who has a good background for that kind of thing as a chem major does), you should be able to grow your own pot...
Only one of them causes cancer in and of itself, and you can only overdose on one of them, and guess which one it is...
Pot is easy to grow. Plant it. Wait. Water. Wait. Water. Oh look! Pot.
| 349 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:16:18pm |
re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar
Right. But let's make it legal, empty the legal system and make some cash.
Agreed. Enforcement savings would be pretty large. Really, we should have a pro-pot policy for the rest still left in the legal system to get them to chill the 'f' out .
| 350 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:16:47pm |
re: #348 Jadespring
Pot is easy to grow. Plant it. Wait. Water. Wait. Water. Oh look! Pot.
I hear you have to be careful how far apart you sow the seeds or else you end up with hemp...
| 351 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:16:49pm |
re: #327 prairiefire
OMG, those where the days.
Sam Kinison: "You can keep the crack! Just give us back our pot!"
lol I must admit, I was a bit of a pothead when I was a kid, but it seemed like most everyone was. I think today, I'd just fall asleep.
| 352 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:16:51pm |
re: #340 brookly red
sorry to hear that... I tried to distract you but hang in there.
I am, thanks....it will pass, when is the question
| 353 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:17:00pm |
re: #336 palomino
Just as cryptic and ultimately meaningless as most of your other posts. Well done, mission accomplished.
just cause you can't make sense of something does not make it meaningless... But if you are not intellectually up to the task then just stop bothering me & you will feel so much better. OK?
| 354 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:17:09pm |
re: #348 Jadespring
Pot is easy to grow. Plant it. Wait. Water. Wait. Water. Oh look! Pot.
18 hours of sun and 6 hours of darksness to make great buds.
| 355 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:17:34pm |
re: #337 wlewisiii
This. Stop playing with the "decriminalization" crap. Just make it as legal as booze & tobacco, tax the snot out of and be done with it. Those who want it will pay and be happy, the rest of us will see utterly no difference except far fewer locked up for no reason.
And if you actually want to destroy the drug market and screw the cartels, give it away free.
| 356 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:17:49pm |
re: #332 SteelPH
How the fuck is this a Protect Life Act if this is to let women die as opposed to getting an abortion, considering that in a situation where one could save her life, the baby would die also anyways.
Got me. I mean look at what happened with Teri Schiavo. If the baby isn't viable and the continuation of the pregnancy will cause the death of the mother that is often a medical fact based on science. It seems to me that we are once again seeing a group of people that are denying both medicine and science and replacing it with their religious beliefs.
| 357 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:17:51pm |
re: #330 brookly red
how far are you willing to go?
Why? Are we now in The Matrix?
Willing to go far for what? I'll walk a mile for a Camel.
| 358 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:18:13pm |
re: #350 jamesfirecat
I hear you have to be careful how far apart you sow the seeds or else you end up with hemp...
seriously?....hemp is a different species
| 359 |
ProGunLiberal Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:18:18pm |
Off topic, but I just found the picture the President of South Sudan, soon to be country. He looks awesome.
| 360 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:18:37pm |
| 361 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:19:36pm |
| 362 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:19:56pm |
re: #359 ProLifeLiberal
Off topic, but I just found the picture the President of South Sudan, soon to be country. He looks awesome.
Them southerners and their hats.
//
| 363 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:20:03pm |
re: #348 Jadespring
Pot is easy to grow. Plant it. Wait. Water. Wait. Water. Oh look! Pot.
Exactly. And even if the taxes were 100%, legalized pot prices would be a hell of a lot less than the current street cost of nearly $500 an ounce.
| 364 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:20:13pm |
re: #360 Cannadian Club Akbar
Prolly male plants.
I've posted about hemp so many times, I gave up for lack of interest...that stuff is remarkable
| 365 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:20:18pm |
re: #355 Decatur Deb
And if you actually want to destroy the drug market and screw the cartels, give it away free.
They'll just move to something else. Criminals will always exist--they profit not from what they are peddling, but from their violence. You don't even need to be selling a product to get into the shakedown business.
| 366 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:20:20pm |
re: #355 Decatur Deb
And if you actually want to destroy the drug market and screw the cartels, give it away free.
Government pot along side government cheese? I just want to have some popcorn to eat while I watch libertarian heads explode :D
| 367 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:20:32pm |
re: #335 jamesfirecat
If you can brew your own beer (and my dad who has a good background for that kind of thing as a chem major does), you should be able to grow your own pot...
Only one of them causes cancer in and of itself, and you can only overdose on one of them, and guess which one it is...
My beloved brews his own. He gets his stuff from here. They sell starter sets. You don't need much. He cooks it on the stove. Smells like wet dog and dirty feet. Yummy yum! (Hops stinks to high heaven.) But the brew is awesome.
[Link: www.midwestsupplies.com...]
| 368 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:20:55pm |
re: #350 jamesfirecat
I hear you have to be careful how far apart you sow the seeds or else you end up with hemp...
It's like any plant. It needs enough room to fully develop.
Funny pot growing story. I was about nine and this family moved in next door. They had a daughter about my age. Her brother was older, 20 maybe and was really mean to us. He had these plants in pots in the backyard and he would always yell at us if we played near them. Well one days we had enough. So we decided to go on a 'commando' mission. We each got a pair of scissors. I remember sneaking around and crawling behind things until... snip...snip...snip.
Then we waited behind the shed.
LOL. He lost his mind when he found them.
Wasn't until years later that I realized what those plants actually were.
| 370 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:21:19pm |
For William...
[Link: www.dpft.org...]
| 371 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:21:42pm |
Ooog. Fox News is carrying footage of Sarah Palin giving a speech at the Reagan 100th birthday event. Meanwhile, Ronald Reagan himself is spinning in his grave at the sheer stupidity of the woman.
| 372 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:21:42pm |
re: #366 wlewisiii
Government pot along side government cheese? I just want to have some popcorn to eat while I watch libertarian heads explode :D
how about a new flavor... refer jack! Hey it could work.
| 373 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:21:49pm |
| 374 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:22:10pm |
re: #350 jamesfirecat
I hear you have to be careful how far apart you sow the seeds or else you end up with hemp...
Well basically the unfertilized female flowers are the strongest sources of THC, so you want to kill the male plants as soon as they can be recognized as juveniles. The female plants are left to gro to maturity where the flowers grow into thick masses of buds.
| 375 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:22:29pm |
re: #365 BryanS
They'll just move to something else. Criminals will always exist--they profit not from what they are peddling, but from their violence. You don't even need to be selling a product to get into the shakedown business.
then Zig Zags would be $300 a book...Mob endorsed
| 376 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:22:31pm |
re: #353 brookly red
just cause you can't make sense of something does not make it meaningless... But if you are not intellectually up to the task then just stop bothering me & you will feel so much better. OK?
Oh, don't get your panties in a twist.
Most of your posts are a word or phrase. I don't have the red rosetta stone, so I'm just asking why you're not a goper when you sound like a goper. Pretty simple really.
| 377 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:23:16pm |
| 378 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:23:48pm |
re: #365 BryanS
They'll just move to something else. Criminals will always exist--they profit not from what they are peddling, but from their violence. You don't even need to be selling a product to get into the shakedown business.
I'm talking about all of it--if it's a medical problem, like we pretend, then treat it with a medicaid prescription and therapy. After we wreck everything they sell, the cartels are the (Mexican) Army's problem.
| 379 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:23:49pm |
| 380 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:23:58pm |
re: #369 prairiefire
$500? Good grief, that seems high. heh
I remember 10 dollar Mexican, 15 dollar Jamaican...
| 381 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:24:54pm |
re: #379 Cannadian Club Akbar
I found my new career.
/
It ain't coke/heroin lucrative, but yeah it's a prosperous living for quite a few folks.
| 382 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:25:01pm |
re: #358 albusteve
seriously?...hemp is a different species
It's not a different species. Different varieties are grown as hemp. You can get 'hemp' from pot plants. "Hemp" varieties don't have the same amount of THC as a the drug varieties.
| 383 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:25:22pm |
| 384 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:26:03pm |
re: #381 palomino
It ain't coke/heroin lucrative, but yeah it's a prosperous living for quite a few folks.
My friend made 76K one year...24 years ago.
| 385 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:26:52pm |
re: #374 mracb
oh yeh and hemp is bred for fiber and not for thc, it is vastly different than the marijuana grown for smoking. Marijuana has been bred into specific purposes.
| 386 |
BryanS Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:26:55pm |
re: #378 Decatur Deb
I'm talking about all of it--if it's a medical problem, like we pretend, then treat it with a medicaid prescription and therapy. After we wreck everything they sell, the cartels are the (Mexican) Army's problem.
I do like the idea of screwing with the Mexican cartels. They are bad for both sides of the border.
| 387 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:27:25pm |
re: #377 palomino
For really good stuff in the big city.
My, my, my. That sounds like sensimiella. That hasn't been around these parts for nigh on 30 years. Of course, I don't run with the young hip crowd.
| 388 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:27:31pm |
re: #385 mracb
oh yeh and hemp is bred for fiber and not for thc, it is vastly different than the marijuana grown for smoking. Marijuana has been bred into specific purposes.
Rope, clothes, etc.
| 389 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:27:40pm |
re: #384 Cannadian Club Akbar
My friend made 76K one year...24 years ago.
Damn, just dealing weed? Very impressive.
And, depending on where he was, the penalties back then were much harsher for weed.
| 390 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:27:54pm |
re: #368 Jadespring
hehehe He shoulda been nicer to you guys :)
I was gonna say, anyone can grow pot, but the strains they have today are pretty outa sight. They're like government grade. Then there's hydroponics which I know nothing about, only that it's grown without soil. Of course, pot isn't the only thing grown like that. Most vine vegetables can too, yes? I'm not sure.
It's not hard to grow pot, but I think there's probably a difference between dirt weed and OMG.
| 391 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:28:15pm |
| 392 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:28:29pm |
re: #387 prairiefire
My, my, my. That sounds like sensimiella. That hasn't been around these parts for nigh on 30 years. Of course, I don't run with the young hip crowd.
Puleeze!! Chronic, skunk, seal a meal bud. The list goes on.
| 393 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:28:56pm |
re: #386 BryanS
I do like the idea of screwing with the Mexican cartels. They are bad for both sides of the border.
We've Pancho Villa'd their grand-daddies, and could do it again if we had our guys out of the sandbox for a while.
| 394 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:29:20pm |
re: #387 prairiefire
My, my, my. That sounds like sensimiella. That hasn't been around these parts for nigh on 30 years. Of course, I don't run with the young hip crowd.
Now everyone talks in terms of sativa and indica, the two major pot varieties. Connoisseurs know the difference, I haven't a clue. OK, a vague clue.
| 395 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:29:22pm |
re: #389 palomino
Damn, just dealing weed? Very impressive.
And, depending on where he was, the penalties back then were much harsher for weed.
He sold 9 gram bags for $30 while everyone else were asking $35 for 7 gram bags.
| 396 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:29:56pm |
Klunk. Typical US military chickenshit...
Laos Hmong leader Vang Pao denied Arlington burial
The US Army has rejected a request for ethnic Hmong leader Vang Pao to be buried with full military honours in Arlington National Cemetery.
Gen Pao led a 15-year CIA-sponsored secret war in Laos during the Vietnam War and, when it was lost, led tens of thousands of his people into exile.
He died last month. The army's decision came as mourners attended the first day of a six-day funeral in California...
| 397 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:30:04pm |
re: #395 Cannadian Club Akbar
He sold 9 gram bags for $30 while everyone else were asking $35 for 7 gram bags.
Smart man. Like the Best Buy of grass.
| 398 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:30:08pm |
re: #387 prairiefire
My, my, my. That sounds like sensimiella. That hasn't been around these parts for nigh on 30 years. Of course, I don't run with the young hip crowd.
Pot bores the shit out of me, but if you are into that stuff then what they grow in Vietnam/Thailand is the real deal.
| 399 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:30:09pm |
re: #394 palomino
Now everyone talks in terms of sativa and indica, the two major pot varieties. Connoisseurs know the difference, I haven't a clue. OK, a vague clue.
Hybrids, my friend, hybrids.
| 400 |
prairiefire Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:30:23pm |
re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar
Puleeze!! Chronic, skunk, seal a meal bud. The list goes on.
As I said, the car pool moms at school aren't ones to share./
| 401 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:31:04pm |
re: #398 brookly red
Pot bores the shit out of me, but if you are into that stuff then what they grow in Vietnam/Thailand is the real deal.
Just as with wine, what they grow in northern Cali is as good as anything else in the world.
| 402 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:31:20pm |
re: #397 palomino
Smart man. Like the Best Buy of grass.
He left me with 5 pounds and a 5 dollar bill for a weekend once. He got back on Monday, I had $1800.
| 403 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:31:57pm |
re: #388 Cannadian Club Akbar
Rope, clothes, etc.
The female plants get you high. The male plants are for hemp, no THC.
But I think there's a big paper lobby stopping hemp from being used, or that was an issue at one time.
| 404 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:06pm |
re: #390 marjoriemoon
hehehe He shoulda been nicer to you guys :)
I was gonna say, anyone can grow pot, but the strains they have today are pretty outa sight. They're like government grade. Then there's hydroponics which I know nothing about, only that it's grown without soil. Of course, pot isn't the only thing grown like that. Most vine vegetables can too, yes? I'm not sure.
It's not hard to grow pot, but I think there's probably a difference between dirt weed and OMG.
You can grow pretty much anything with hydroponics.
As for difference between dirt and hydro grown. LOL Can't tell you how many times I've sat (stoned) and listened to that debate. Hydro is easier to control but there are many who swear by dirt grown from XXX region or town. In BC there are places who get higher prices for the pot grown in their 'dirt' because of it's particular qualities.
| 405 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:08pm |
| 406 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:08pm |
re: #399 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hybrids, my friend, hybrids.
Actually that's the complaint among some users. They want either pure indica or sativa (like a vintage wine) but mostly what's out there is a hybrid of the two.
| 407 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:28pm |
re: #393 Decatur Deb
We've Pancho Villa'd their grand-daddies, and could do it again if we had our guys out of the sandbox for a while.
Not really. The Punitive Expedition accomplished very little. We would be very ill-served if we sent ground troops south of the border.
| 408 |
brookly red Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:34pm |
re: #401 palomino
Just as with wine, what they grow in northern Cali is as good as anything else in the world.
not even close.
| 409 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:34pm |
re: #402 Cannadian Club Akbar
He left me with 5 pounds and a 5 dollar bill for a weekend once. He got back on Monday, I had $1800.
You in college at the time?
| 410 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:32:58pm |
re: #403 marjoriemoon
The female plants get you high. The male plants are for hemp, no THC.
But I think there's a big paper lobby stopping hemp from being used, or that was an issue at one time.
Cotton growers as well I am sure.
| 411 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:33:32pm |
| 412 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:34:26pm |
re: #403 marjoriemoon
The female plants get you high. The male plants are for hemp, no THC.
But I think there's a big paper lobby stopping hemp from being used, or that was an issue at one time.
We can grow hemp here but you need some sort of license I think. It's fairly regulated.
| 413 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:34:27pm |
re: #408 brookly red
not even close.
My experience doesn't match yours. What a shock.
Is there some horticultural factor of which I'm unaware? Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.
| 414 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:34:30pm |
re: #409 palomino
You in college at the time?
Nope. But not long after I joined the military. And for the record, never popped on a piss test.
| 416 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:35:28pm |
re: #412 Jadespring
We can grow hemp here but you need some sort of license I think. It's fairly regulated.
[Link: www1.agric.gov.ab.ca...]
| 417 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:35:34pm |
re: #389 palomino
Damn, just dealing weed? Very impressive.
And, depending on where he was, the penalties back then were much harsher for weed.
Well Carter actually decriminalized it... for like 30 seconds.
In 1977, President Jimmy Carter endorsed a federal decriminalization bill. But the bill went nowhere, and soon the movement was all but obliterated by the return swing of the cultural pendulum, now known as the Reagan Revolution. There would be no new state or federal marijuana reforms for the next 16 years.
| 418 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:35:43pm |
re: #382 Jadespring
It's not a different species. Different varieties are grown as hemp. You can get 'hemp' from pot plants. "Hemp" varieties don't have the same amount of THC as a the drug varieties.
different subspecies...
sativa is hemp
indica is for smoking
you are confusing yourself...
look it up
| 420 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:36:56pm |
re: #385 mracb
oh yeh and hemp is bred for fiber and not for thc, it is vastly different than the marijuana grown for smoking. Marijuana has been bred into specific purposes.
yes, the difference between sativa and indica....both are cannabis
| 421 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:00pm |
I wish I had some weed for my friends to shut them the fuck up.
| 422 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:01pm |
re: #416 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Link: www1.agric.gov.ab.ca...]
There it is. :) Thanks
Is it still totally banned in the US?
| 423 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:08pm |
re: #387 prairiefire
My, my, my. That sounds like sensimiella. That hasn't been around these parts for nigh on 30 years. Of course, I don't run with the young hip crowd.
Most of my knowledge is dated. hehe
| 424 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:25pm |
| 425 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:27pm |
re: #414 Cannadian Club Akbar
Nope. But not long after I joined the military. And for the record, never popped on a piss test.
My wife flipped out a few years back worrying she was gonna fail a test cuz she'd had some at a party a couple weeks before. The general rule is that it will show up for a month. So she kept finding excuses to put off the test and drank 20 glasses of water a day for the next two weeks. Happy ending--she passed.
Why they need to drug test PR execs I have no idea. The most dangerous thing she does is drive two miles to work.
| 426 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:52pm |
re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar
Puleeze!! Chronic, skunk, seal a meal bud. The list goes on.
My room mate in my final semester of college had a poster which was basically a gigantic marijuana leaf symbol made out of all of the names our government has for the stuff....
| 427 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:55pm |
| 428 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:37:57pm |
re: #418 albusteve
different subspecies...
sativa is hemp
indica is for smoking
you are confusing yourself...
look it up
I gather that's important if you've spent a good bit of time in Jamaica.
| 429 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:38:12pm |
re: #394 palomino
Now everyone talks in terms of sativa and indica, the two major pot varieties. Connoisseurs know the difference, I haven't a clue. OK, a vague clue.
I've explained
| 430 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:38:40pm |
re: #425 palomino
We need to drug test Congress and their staff. Just like any other gubment employees.
| 431 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:39:05pm |
re: #407 Dark_Falcon
Not really. The Punitive Expedition accomplished very little. We would be very ill-served if we sent ground troops south of the border.
Not talkin JN-2s here.
[Link: www.es.northropgrumman.com...]
| 432 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:39:17pm |
re: #417 marjoriemoon
Well Carter actually decriminalized it... for like 30 seconds.
Reagan was way off target on pot. I think it resulted from the general revulsion he felt for the counterculture of the 60's and anything associated therewith.
| 433 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:39:21pm |
re: #403 marjoriemoon
The female plants get you high. The male plants are for hemp, no THC.But I think there's a big paper lobby stopping hemp from being used, or that was an issue at one time.
wrong...just use wiki
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 434 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:39:55pm |
re: #418 albusteve
different subspecies...
sativa is hemp
indica is for smoking
you are confusing yourself...
look it up
No I'm not. You said species initially. You forgot the sub part.
| 435 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:39:56pm |
re: #414 Cannadian Club Akbar
Nope. But not long after I joined the military. And for the record, never popped on a piss test.
I tried to join the Coast Guard. I guess I was too honest on the application. I lived on a sailboat at the time and after dealing with the Coast Guard I figured they could use somebody that had some idea of seamanship. They, on the other hand, couldn't look past that question of 'have you ever taken drugs?'
| 436 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:39:57pm |
re: #403 marjoriemoon
The female plants get you high. The male plants are for hemp, no THC.
But I think there's a big paper lobby stopping hemp from being used, or that was an issue at one time.
Timber Lobby, one of its main leaders in that particular crusade was William Randolph Hearst, also known as the guy who said "You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the War"....
| 437 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:40:00pm |
re: #428 Dark_Falcon
I gather that's important if you've spent a good bit of time in Jamaica.
no, it's simple biology....people just don't want to listen tho
| 438 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:41:01pm |
re: #404 Jadespring
You can grow pretty much anything with hydroponics.
As for difference between dirt and hydro grown. LOL Can't tell you how many times I've sat (stoned) and listened to that debate. Hydro is easier to control but there are many who swear by dirt grown from XXX region or town. In BC there are places who get higher prices for the pot grown in their 'dirt' because of it's particular qualities.
That makes sense though, no? Richer soil, better crop. As far as hydro, does hydroponic grown veggies taste better?
| 439 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:41:02pm |
re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar
We need to drug test Congress and their staff. Just like any other gubment employees.
What they do is certainly far more potentially dangerous than most other govt employees.
| 440 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:41:27pm |
| 442 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:41:55pm |
| 443 |
Flavia Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:42:02pm |
re: #258 Jadespring
Hey since it's moved on from the last thread.
Regarding Sandmonkey revealing himself. It's probably the best thing he could do at this point since it's clear that the authorities know who he is now. He's already an underground public figure, now he's becoming an above ground one. Going on CNN like he did makes it harder to be disappeared without ramifications because more people would pay attention.
Being public like this while definitely bringing more risk also offers it's own set of protections.
My thoughts exactly!
| 444 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:42:09pm |
re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar
We need to drug test Congress and their staff. Just like any other gubment employees.
Forget drug tests, how about IQ tests?
| 445 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:42:13pm |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
That makes sense though, no? Richer soil, better crop. As far as hydro, does hydroponic grown veggies taste better?
Better taste. Less or no pesticides.
| 446 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:42:35pm |
re: #401 palomino
Just as with wine, what they grow in northern Cali is as good as anything else in the world.
Yep
| 447 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:42:51pm |
| 448 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:43:20pm |
re: #410 Cannadian Club Akbar
Cotton growers as well I am sure.
That may be a rumor about the paper people. But I am seeing more hemp products being sold, purses and totes, clothes. So I don't know who would lobby against them :p Macy's?
| 449 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:44:02pm |
re: #448 marjoriemoon
That may be a rumor about the paper people. But I am seeing more hemp products being sold, purses and totes, clothes. So I don't know who would lobby against them :p Macy's?
4 words: Macy's Hemp Day Parade!!
| 450 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:44:24pm |
re: #432 palomino
Reagan was way off target on pot. I think it resulted from the general revulsion he felt for the counterculture of the 60's and anything associated therewith.
Well, as governor of California he saw the counterculture up close and personal. Given how much disruption it caused for no gain, he revulsion was well founded.
| 451 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:44:31pm |
re: #446 Stanley Sea
Yep
But the Dem from NY says otherwise. He's apparently an expert on Thai weed. Either that, or he's just full of shit.
| 452 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:44:44pm |
OK. Gotta run. See ya'll soon!!! Thanks for keeping the stoopid away from me!
| 453 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:44:47pm |
world class pot can be grown anywhere outdoors if the season is long enough and the sunlight plentiful....all other factors are easily controlled...that's a fact, Asia has nothing over New Mexico or Indiana for that matter
| 454 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:45:46pm |
For the record, I've no great use for drugs or libertarians. What we're doing now is just stupid, unless its purpose is to criminalize a good chunk of our citizens.
'Nite, all.
| 455 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:48:32pm |
Reine! Thanks for the Sandmonkey post!
| 456 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:48:34pm |
re: #453 albusteve
world class pot can be grown anywhere outdoors if the season is long enough and the sunlight plentiful...all other factors are easily controlled...that's a fact, Asia has nothing over New Mexico or Indiana for that matter
There are so many varieties now that great weed will grow anywhere if you're smart. With a little bit of knowledge about lighting and nutrients anything can be grown anywhere indoors.
| 457 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:48:35pm |
re: #453 albusteve
world class pot can be grown anywhere outdoors if the season is long enough and the sunlight plentiful...all other factors are easily controlled...that's a fact, Asia has nothing over New Mexico or Indiana for that matter
The best pot now is grown from clones of female plants of strong breeding. They are grown on 18-24 hour light cycles.
/My daughter put perfume on her hair brush. My beard smells real purty now.
| 459 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:49:32pm |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
That makes sense though, no? Richer soil, better crop. As far as hydro, does hydroponic grown veggies taste better?
No not really. As with soil it depends on how they're grown and if they get what they need in terms of fertilizers.
| 460 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:49:47pm |
re: #450 Dark_Falcon
Given how much disruption it caused for no gain....
The War on Pot in a Nutshell there Dark weather you were intending it or not....
| 461 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:50:13pm |
re: #450 Dark_Falcon
Well, as governor of California he saw the counterculture up close and personal. Given how much disruption it caused for no gain, he revulsion was well founded.
I don't wanna re-argue the entire 60's. The counterculture had a violent drug fueled side for sure. But the counterculture also played a role in exposing LBJ and Nixon's lies on Vietnam (regardless of how you feel about the War, there's no debating this.) Additionally the counterculture played a role in supporting civil rights, women's rights, the rights of immigrant workers, etc.
It's a hugely reductive mistake to paint the counterculture as nothing more than a bunch of drug addled Deadheads waiting around for the first Ben & Jerry's to open up.
| 462 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:51:22pm |
re: #453 albusteve
world class pot can be grown anywhere outdoors if the season is long enough and the sunlight plentiful...all other factors are easily controlled...that's a fact, Asia has nothing over New Mexico or Indiana for that matter
Precisely. It's just like the mythology of French wine.
| 463 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:52:47pm |
re: #433 albusteve
wrong...just use wiki
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
I stand corrected. Not "no", but "low".
| 464 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:53:00pm |
re: #462 palomino
Precisely. It's just like the mythology of French wine.
in the mid seventies, I was growing better pot that I could buy in Jamaica..it depends on the effort more than any natural aspects
| 465 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:53:19pm |
re: #460 jamesfirecat
The War on Pot in a Nutshell there Dark weather you were intending it or not...
Stupid actions sometimes produce stupid reactions. Going after pot was intended to strike at a symbol of the counterculture. It's not worth what it cost, in the main.
That having been said, I dislike marijuana immensely, but that is mostly just part of my broader dislike of intoxicants.
| 466 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:54:28pm |
| 467 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:54:34pm |
re: #456 Killgore Trout
There are so many varieties now that great weed will grow anywhere if you're smart. With a little bit of knowledge about lighting and nutrients anything can be grown anywhere indoors.
indoors is the real deal for the highest quality...a totally controlled environment...are you gonna do tomatoes indoors again?...any success?
| 468 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:55:47pm |
re: #466 marjoriemoon
Now that would be fun, indeed!
a bunch of people wandering around in natural color casual wear? meh.
| 469 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:55:56pm |
re: #464 albusteve
in the mid seventies, I was growing better pot that I could buy in Jamaica..it depends on the effort more than any natural aspects
You grew pot in the 70s? While listening to the Stones and Who and Tull no doubt. Dude, you're my new hero.
| 470 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:56:13pm |
re: #461 palomino
I don't wanna re-argue the entire 60's. The counterculture had a violent drug fueled side for sure. But the counterculture also played a role in exposing LBJ and Nixon's lies on Vietnam (regardless of how you feel about the War, there's no debating this.) Additionally the counterculture played a role in supporting civil rights, women's rights, the rights of immigrant workers, etc.
It's a hugely reductive mistake to paint the counterculture as nothing more than a bunch of drug addled Deadheads waiting around for the first Ben & Jerry's to open up.
That's always been their easy way out. Dismiss.
| 471 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:56:32pm |
re: #450 Dark_Falcon
Well, as governor of California he saw the counterculture up close and personal. Given how much disruption it caused for no gain, he revulsion was well founded.
No gain? Oh I object to that. Women's rights came out of the 60's. So did many minority rights. The Peace Corp came out of the 60s. Not all hippies were screwing and smoking.
| 472 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:56:43pm |
re: #465 Dark_Falcon
Stupid actions sometimes produce stupid reactions. Going after pot was intended to strike at a symbol of the counterculture. It's not worth what it cost, in the main.
That having been said, I dislike marijuana immensely, but that is mostly just part of my broader dislike of intoxicants.
I consider myself a "catnip smoking liberal" in that I'm far too penny pinching with my own money to even think about smoking or drinking anything... but at the same time, I will fight to the death to defend other people's rights to do so.
| 473 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:57:10pm |
re: #461 palomino
I don't wanna re-argue the entire 60's. The counterculture had a violent drug fueled side for sure. But the counterculture also played a role in exposing LBJ and Nixon's lies on Vietnam (regardless of how you feel about the War, there's no debating this.) Additionally the counterculture played a role in supporting civil rights, women's rights, the rights of immigrant workers, etc.
It's a hugely reductive mistake to paint the counterculture as nothing more than a bunch of drug addled Deadheads waiting around for the first Ben & Jerry's to open up.
I disagree with the bolded parts. The civil rights movement predated the counterculture and had already won its most important victories by the end of 1965. "Rights of immigrant workers" was a change I consider a mistake. Rights of women I'll give you.
| 474 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:57:19pm |
re: #461 palomino
I don't wanna re-argue the entire 60's.
I'm still waiting for the rest of the American political system to catch up with you. I'm so goddamn tired of every election and every major issue coming down to something from the 1960's. Some of us were born after all that. It'd be nice for political heads to finally realize that.
| 475 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:57:38pm |
re: #471 marjoriemoon
No gain? Oh I object to that. Women's rights came out of the 60's. So did many minority rights. The Peace Corp came out of the 60s. Not all hippies were screwing and smoking.
And I could see why he'd be revolted.
| 476 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:57:54pm |
re: #450 Dark_Falcon
Well, as governor of California he saw the counterculture up close and personal. Given how much disruption it caused for no gain, he revulsion was well founded.
Actors used to keel over from smoking cigarettes and booze left and right.
| 477 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:57:59pm |
re: #463 marjoriemoon
I stand corrected. Not "no", but "low".
cannabis is a species of plant....
subspecies indica will get you high
subspecies sativa is hemp
ganjah, marijuana, pot are just nicknames for indica
sativa is a Schedule I drug, as dangerous as heroin as far as the feds are concerned
| 478 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:58:25pm |
re: #471 marjoriemoon
No gain? Oh I object to that. Women's rights came out of the 60's. So did many minority rights. The Peace Corp came out of the 60s. Not all hippies were screwing and smoking.
This is where I say, I love D_F, but he needs to read more & get out of his pre-determined "theories"
| 479 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 8:58:29pm |
re: #467 albusteve
indoors is the real deal for the highest quality...a totally controlled environment...are you gonna do tomatoes indoors again?...any success?
My best hydroponics crops are yellow pear tomatoes and Ancho peppers do surprisingly well. I did watercress this winter which produces gang buster crops. Celeriac and Lemon Grass doing well.I invested in a new back of T5 lights which should help production.
| 481 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:00:08pm |
re: #472 jamesfirecat
I consider myself a "catnip smoking liberal" in that I'm far too penny pinching with my own money to even think about smoking or drinking anything... but at the same time, I will fight to the death to defend other people's rights to do so.
I quit buying pot for 10 years. I only smoked when somebody else had some. That worked out to about once every three months.
| 482 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:00:11pm |
re: #469 palomino
You grew pot in the 70s? While listening to the Stones and Who and Tull no doubt. Dude, you're my new hero.
a lot of it and made a bunch of money too....I have stories no doubt people would not believe...even smuggled some into Canada, my crowning moment, but that was then
| 483 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:00:23pm |
re: #479 Killgore Trout
What got you interested in hydroponics?
| 484 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:01:21pm |
re: #473 Dark_Falcon
I disagree with the bolded parts. The civil rights movement predated the counterculture and had already won its most important victories by the end of 1965. "Rights of immigrant workers" was a change I consider a mistake. Rights of women I'll give you.
But it was excelled by the counterculture. Better word maybe, implemented. They lived the mixed race thing. They changed the music, profoundly.
| 485 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:01:27pm |
re: #461 palomino
I don't wanna re-argue the entire 60's. The counterculture had a violent drug fueled side for sure. But the counterculture also played a role in exposing LBJ and Nixon's lies on Vietnam (regardless of how you feel about the War, there's no debating this.) Additionally the counterculture played a role in supporting civil rights, women's rights, the rights of immigrant workers, etc.
It's a hugely reductive mistake to paint the counterculture as nothing more than a bunch of drug addled Deadheads waiting around for the first Ben & Jerry's to open up.
well said....I was there, and remember it too
| 486 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:01:56pm |
re: #483 freetoken
What got you interested in hydroponics?
We have a pretty short growing season here in Portlandia. If you want year round veg ya gotta bring things indoors.
| 487 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:01:57pm |
re: #470 Stanley Sea
That's always been their easy way out. Dismiss.
Another example is rock music. Most of it, since the mid 60's, has been informed to some extent by the American counterculture. (Even Ted Nugent before Beck brainwashed him.) Point is that one of America's greatest contributions to world popular mainstream culture was, and still is, largely a musical expression of the nobler aspects of countercultural values.
And then there's the sexual revolution. The US counterculture deserves at least a partial thumbs up there too--recognition for gays, women seen as sexual subjects and not merely objects, contraception and abortion rights. And of course porn.
| 488 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:02:04pm |
re: #477 albusteve
cannabis is a species of plant...
subspecies indica will get you high
subspecies sativa is hemp
ganjah, marijuana, pot are just nicknames for indica
sativa is a Schedule I drug, as dangerous as heroin as far as the feds are concerned
Clearly my knowledge is lacking.
| 489 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:02:17pm |
re: #482 albusteve
a lot of it and made a bunch of money too...I have stories no doubt people would not believe...even smuggled some into Canada, my crowning moment, but that was then
pffft, that's easy, try forgetting to declare the '3' ounce bags of pipe tobacco sitting on your console. DAmn near sent me to Canadian Gitmo.
| 490 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:02:41pm |
| 491 |
APox Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:03:03pm |
Haha, I don't know if anyone watched Bill Maher tonight but he was spot on with his analysis of the Michelle Obama project to help kids eat better... What a ridiculous spectacle when the first lady tries to help kids eat better / be more active and is reviled as some horrible nazi.
| 492 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:03:05pm |
| 493 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:03:34pm |
Heck the counter culture actually started in the 50s. If I were to pinpoint the most popular figure that began this change I would pick James Dean. Then there was the beat generation, the poets, the folks singers, etc.
| 494 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:03:54pm |
re: #479 Killgore Trout
My best hydroponics crops are yellow pear tomatoes and Ancho peppers do surprisingly well. I did watercress this winter which produces gang buster crops. Celeriac and Lemon Grass doing well.I invested in a new back of T5 lights which should help production.
if I were a rich guy, I pop for a greenhouse for you...go into business
| 495 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:04:05pm |
re: #481 mracb
I quit buying pot for 10 years. I only smoked when somebody else had some. That worked out to about once every three months.
I hadn't smoked any in four years until a few days ago. This lady gave me enough for a joint as a gift. It was nice and fun but I can't see myself going out and getting more anytime soon.
I don't drink like I used to either.
| 496 |
kmg Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:04:18pm |
Well at least the aid given to Israel isn't making anyone a billionaire, like the $ that is given to Egypt or should I say Mubarak.
| 497 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:04:36pm |
| 498 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:05:44pm |
re: #486 Killgore Trout
We have a pretty short growing season here in Portlandia. If you want year round veg ya gotta bring things indoors.
How'd the frogs do?
| 499 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:05:47pm |
re: #488 marjoriemoon
Clearly my knowledge is lacking.
not anymore....maybe a trivia winner in there
| 500 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:06:04pm |
re: #486 Killgore Trout
We have a pretty short growing season here in Portlandia. If you want year round veg ya gotta bring things indoors.
Is there a reason you chose not to use potting soil indoors?
At times in my life I've been quite into horticulture... I miss it actually. When I was young I used to use Perlite as a rooting medium, but also tried growing some plants in it (needs constant fertilizer.)
And, IIRC, you are planning a greenhouse?
| 501 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:06:17pm |
re: #487 palomino
Another example is rock music. Most of it, since the mid 60's, has been informed to some extent by the American counterculture. (Even Ted Nugent before Beck brainwashed him.) Point is that one of America's greatest contributions to world popular mainstream culture was, and still is, largely a musical expression of the nobler aspects of countercultural values.
And then there's the sexual revolution. The US counterculture deserves at least a partial thumbs up there too--recognition for gays, women seen as sexual subjects and not merely objects, contraception and abortion rights. And of course porn.
The "sexual revolution" is one of those revolutions I wish had been crushed. Most of its results have been bad.
| 502 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:06:57pm |
re: #501 Dark_Falcon
The "sexual revolution" is one of those revolutions I wish had been crushed. Most of its results have been bad.
How so?
| 503 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:06:57pm |
re: #473 Dark_Falcon
I disagree with the bolded parts. The civil rights movement predated the counterculture and had already won its most important victories by the end of 1965. "Rights of immigrant workers" was a change I consider a mistake. Rights of women I'll give you.
The counterculture goes back to the beatniks of the early 50's. And there's no bright line that proclaims the end of the civil rights movement. Fact is, whites in the counterculture were farmore likely to be "pro-Negro" than their counterparts with short hair.
As for immigrant workers, their situation was a disgrace. Why you would consider some basic standards for working and living conditions a "mistake", I have no idea. Their tough manual labor gave us cheap produce; the least we can do is treat them better than farm animals.
| 504 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:07:08pm |
re: #497 albusteve
he's a CONTROL FREAK!
Well, it is more conducive for controlling some kinds of pests/diseases.
| 505 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:07:14pm |
Even at today's prices I was spending more on cigarettes a month than on pot.....
/ 1 full week of nicotine gum.
| 506 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:07:32pm |
re: #498 Varek Raith
How'd the frogs do?
We had a brief warm spell a few weeks ago and they started singing again so they're still around. I dug a new annex to my pond to give them a safe breeding space so hopefully I'll have new tads in the spring.
| 507 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:08:00pm |
re: #489 mracb
pffft, that's easy, try forgetting to declare the '3' ounce bags of pipe tobacco sitting on your console. DAmn near sent me to Canadian Gitmo.
it may have been easy, but I've never been so terrified in my life, I nearly passed out from fear looking at 15-40 years in a Canadian prison....you try it
| 508 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:08:24pm |
re: #501 Dark_Falcon
The "sexual revolution" is one of those revolutions I wish had been crushed. Most of its results have been bad.
| 509 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:08:51pm |
re: #487 palomino
Another example is rock music. Most of it, since the mid 60's, has been informed to some extent by the American counterculture. (Even Ted Nugent before Beck brainwashed him.) Point is that one of America's greatest contributions to world popular mainstream culture was, and still is, largely a musical expression of the nobler aspects of countercultural values.
And then there's the sexual revolution. The US counterculture deserves at least a partial thumbs up there too--recognition for gays, women seen as sexual subjects and not merely objects, contraception and abortion rights. And of course porn.
Absolutely. Not just women in the workplace, but being fully independent equals.
The change in music came with Elvis. The white man singing black music to white girls. Then came the Beatles with their long hair (:>) many other musical influences. But it wasn't Frank Sinatra...
| 510 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:09:12pm |
re: #493 Gus 802
Heck the counter culture actually started in the 50s. If I were to pinpoint the most popular figure that began this change I would pick James Dean. Then there was the beat generation, the poets, the folks singers, etc.
Elvis, he was the seed that grew mainstream
| 511 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:09:45pm |
| 512 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:09:55pm |
re: #510 albusteve
That's it! Rock and Roll destroyed America!
| 513 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:10:14pm |
re: #487 palomino
Another example is rock music. Most of it, since the mid 60's, has been informed to some extent by the American counterculture. (Even Ted Nugent before Beck brainwashed him.) Point is that one of America's greatest contributions to world popular mainstream culture was, and still is, largely a musical expression of the nobler aspects of countercultural values.
And then there's the sexual revolution. The US counterculture deserves at least a partial thumbs up there too--recognition for gays, women seen as sexual subjects and not merely objects, contraception and abortion rights. And of course porn.
Truth.
| 514 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:10:16pm |
re: #507 albusteve
it may have been easy, but I've never been so terrified in my life, I nearly passed out from fear looking at 15-40 years in a Canadian prison...you try it
I've carried pot across that border both ways. Never more than personal use.
| 515 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:10:24pm |
re: #510 albusteve
Elvis, he was the seed that grew mainstream
Oh right him too of course. Marlon Brando was up there too.
| 516 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:10:32pm |
re: #512 freetoken
That's it! Rock and Roll destroyed America!
some people thought so....I say it saved it
| 517 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:10:37pm |
re: #474 Lidane
I'm still waiting for the rest of the American political system to catch up with you. I'm so goddamn tired of every election and every major issue coming down to something from the 1960's. Some of us were born after all that. It'd be nice for political heads to finally realize that.
Couldn't agree more. This has been going on since the 60's ended. It was on display in '72 when Nixon used fear of the counterculture to demolish the inept McGovern. The obsession with the 60's was so thick in 1992 you could cut it with a knife. It was all about the "draft dodging hippie" Clinton.
Maybe when we get to a point where both candidates are clearly too young to have been active in the 60's we'll get past this obsession.
| 518 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:11:26pm |
re: #476 Gus 802
Actors used to keel over from smoking cigarettes and booze left and right.
Reagan used to be spokesman for Lucky Strikes. Whose motto was "reach for a smoke instead of a sweet, ladies."
| 519 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:11:41pm |
re: #514 mracb
I've carried pot across that border both ways. Never more than personal use.
I did 30 pounds....never did it again, I hired a pregnant girl of all people
| 521 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:12:24pm |
re: #501 Dark_Falcon
The "sexual revolution" is one of those revolutions I wish had been crushed. Most of its results have been bad.
Depends on how you look at it.
Personally, I like being able to openly own my sexuality and my sex life. I like the fact that we've evolved enough to where a woman's consent is taken seriously, except by some ignorant, backwards-thinking assholes. I like the fact that as a woman, I can admit to things like enjoying sex and the occasional bit of porn and not be slut-shamed for either.
We've come a long way. We've still got farther to go, but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was when my mom was growing up.
| 522 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:12:42pm |
re: #501 Dark_Falcon
The "sexual revolution" is one of those revolutions I wish had been crushed. Most of its results have been bad.
Dude! The sexual revolution gave women a voice over their bodies. Not just with reproduction, birth control, but sexually, as in we are sexual beings with needs, wants and desires and all that. Women didn't discuss these things in my mother and grandmother's generation.
| 523 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:12:59pm |
re: #477 albusteve
cannabis is a species of plant...
subspecies indica will get you high
subspecies sativa is hemp
ganjah, marijuana, pot are just nicknames for indica
sativa is a Schedule I drug, as dangerous as heroin as far as the feds are concerned
so then most of what floats around the US must be indica, right?
I just wanna know which one I was smoking back in college.
| 525 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:13:34pm |
| 526 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:14:34pm |
re: #523 palomino
so then most of what floats around the US must be indica, right?
I just wanna know which one I was smoking back in college.
there's well bred sativa too. I think 'orange kush' is a sativa where as 'sour diesel' is an indica.
| 527 |
lostlakehiker Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:14:37pm |
re: #19 jamesfirecat
///But if we cut aid to Israel then they wouldn't have a strong enough army to appear in charge, then they would get actively invaded and we could bust in with our own big guns like we did in the Gulf War and be all BANG BANG BOOM BOOM, AMERICA F*** YEAH!
Sorry to say, I don't think that's Rand's scenario. I'm grimly pessimistic about what makes him tick. And in his scenario as I imagine him, Israel loses.
If so, he's smoking something. There might be a nuclear war which both sides and all bystanders lose. Israel might win. But she won't fold.
| 528 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:14:49pm |
re: #524 freetoken
The song that destroyed America:
[Video]
The movie that started the downfall of America's youth!
| 529 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:15:07pm |
re: #479 Killgore Trout
My best hydroponics crops are yellow pear tomatoes and Ancho peppers do surprisingly well. I did watercress this winter which produces gang buster crops. Celeriac and Lemon Grass doing well.I invested in a new back of T5 lights which should help production.
I'm trying to grow jalapenos here in southern California. But having no luck: just leaves, no peppers. Any suggestions?
| 530 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:15:27pm |
For more information please contact The Daughter's of the American Revolution.
//
| 531 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:15:45pm |
re: #518 palomino
Reagan used to be spokesman for Lucky Strikes. Whose motto was "reach for a smoke instead of a sweet, ladies."
The idea there being to play into women's desire to stay thin. Not terribly nice, but a classic advertising trick.
| 532 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:15:59pm |
re: #529 palomino
I'm trying to grow jalapenos here in southern California. But having no luck: just leaves, no peppers. Any suggestions?
Have they flowered at all?
| 533 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:16:25pm |
re: #473 Dark_Falcon
Rights of immigrant workers" was a change I consider a mistake.
I missed this earlier, but I could not disagree more. Migrant farm workers still get shit on today, all these years later. Their issues are still important, as is the work that Cesar Chavez started.
| 534 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:16:38pm |
| 536 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:17:12pm |
re: #521 Lidane
Depends on how you look at it.
Personally, I like being able to openly own my sexuality and my sex life. I like the fact that we've evolved enough to where a woman's consent is taken seriously, except by some ignorant, backwards-thinking assholes. I like the fact that as a woman, I can admit to things like enjoying sex and the occasional bit of porn and not be slut-shamed for either.
We've come a long way. We've still got farther to go, but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was when my mom was growing up.
Well, unless you like being slut-shamed...
| 537 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:17:23pm |
re: #529 palomino
I'm trying to grow jalapenos here in southern California. But having no luck: just leaves, no peppers. Any suggestions?
Are you near the coast?
| 538 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:17:24pm |
re: #534 marjoriemoon
You're like the standup comic in the back of the room :>
Not that brave.
Just some random person on the web.
:)
| 539 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:17:33pm |
re: #482 albusteve
a lot of it and made a bunch of money too...I have stories no doubt people would not believe...even smuggled some into Canada, my crowning moment, but that was then
Ever get down to Mexico or South America as part of this work? Going to Canada is hardcore enough, but heading south really goes to 11.
| 540 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:18:06pm |
re: #523 palomino
so then most of what floats around the US must be indica, right?
I just wanna know which one I was smoking back in college.
yes, altho sativa/hemp still grows wild in and along drainage ditches in northern Indiana, leftover from subsidized growing for the feds before and during WW1... it could never be totally eradicated after the fact...I've picked it, bricked it and sold it
| 541 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:18:18pm |
re: #529 palomino
I'm trying to grow jalapenos here in southern California. But having no luck: just leaves, no peppers. Any suggestions?
are you getting flowers? I grow several kinds of peppers including jalapeno up in the east bay hills. good potting soil? they took a long time to grow this last year. I didn't get any till late season and we plant around April up here.
| 542 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:18:21pm |
re: #527 lostlakehiker
Sorry to say, I don't think that's Rand's scenario. I'm grimly pessimistic about what makes him tick. And in his scenario as I imagine him, Israel loses.
If so, he's smoking something. There might be a nuclear war which both sides and all bystanders lose. Israel might win. But she won't fold.
I was thinking about this today. What's going to happen to the Egypt/Gaza border after all this plays out? The Philadelphi corridor.
| 543 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:18:38pm |
re: #536 marjoriemoon
Well, unless you like being slut-shamed...
I'm not opposed to roleplay in the bedroom, but the second he takes it seriously, he's gone. ;)
| 544 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:19:18pm |
re: #543 Lidane
I'm not opposed to roleplay in the bedroom, but the second he takes it seriously, he's gone. ;)
Hi, how you doing?
| 546 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:19:51pm |
re: #543 Lidane
I'm not opposed to roleplay in the bedroom, but the second he takes it seriously, he's gone. ;)
| 547 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:20:04pm |
| 548 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:20:41pm |
Do NOT deny the sexual revolution.
Where the fuck would be be today without it?
Oh my.
| 549 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:21:32pm |
re: #529 palomino
I'm trying to grow jalapenos here in southern California. But having no luck: just leaves, no peppers. Any suggestions?
If you're growing outdoors you'll probably need to wait for spring. I think you're out of season. If you're growing indoors you might need better lighting. I like the T5 lights. buy a bank of 4 if you can afford it.
| 550 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:21:59pm |
re: #539 palomino
Ever get down to Mexico or South America as part of this work? Going to Canada is hardcore enough, but heading south really goes to 11.
no, but I knew people that had a regular gig out of Nogales for a couple of years...they got into guns tho, got into a running shootout stateside and never did it again...some bold people there, VN vets
| 551 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:22:02pm |
re: #548 Stanley Sea
Do NOT deny the sexual revolution.
Where the fuck would be be today without it?
Oh my.
Barefoot and preggers, by crackie.
| 552 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:23:00pm |
re: #548 Stanley Sea
Do NOT deny the sexual revolution.
Where the fuck would be be today without it?
Oh my.
Phylis Schlafly!
//
| 553 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:23:14pm |
re: #548 Stanley Sea
Do NOT deny the sexual revolution.
Where the fuck would be be today without it?
Back in some mythical Tea Party paradise, where the wimmins stayed quiet and didn't object to anything, and where anything and anyone darker than a loaf of Wonder Bread knew its place. =P
| 554 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:23:57pm |
re: #521 Lidane
Depends on how you look at it.
Personally, I like being able to openly own my sexuality and my sex life. I like the fact that we've evolved enough to where a woman's consent is taken seriously, except by some ignorant, backwards-thinking assholes. I like the fact that as a woman, I can admit to things like enjoying sex and the occasional bit of porn and not be slut-shamed for either.
We've come a long way. We've still got farther to go, but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was when my mom was growing up.
Again, for truth.
| 555 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:24:57pm |
re: #553 Lidane
Back in some mythical Tea Party paradise, where the wimmins stayed quiet and didn't object to anything, and where anything and anyone darker than a loaf of Wonder Bread knew its place. =P
Yes but on the good side we probably wouldn't have to put up with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
| 556 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:25:19pm |
re: #501 Dark_Falcon
Dude, you're knee is jerking real bad right now. I know how that goes, mine does it all the time too, just slightly different triggers. I put a weight (a heavy book or three does wonders) on my leg and then I retreat from the convo that's getting me in trouble.
Hang in there, it's not necessary to refight the 60's. Trust me on this, u'm kay?
:angel:
| 557 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:25:24pm |
re: #548 Stanley Sea
Do NOT deny the sexual revolution.
Where the fuck would be be today without it?
Oh my.
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have vibrating bra inserts.
[Link: tv.popcrunch.com...]
| 558 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:25:41pm |
re: #555 Jadespring
Yes but on the good side we probably wouldn't have to put up with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
GASP!
they oughta make a law
| 559 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:26:29pm |
re: #501 Dark_Falcon
The "sexual revolution" is one of those revolutions I wish had been crushed. Most of its results have been bad.
Sexual revolution results: widespread availability of contraception (including the "pill", which gave women unprecedented freedom); abortion; speaking freely and openly about sex; learning about our bodies; beginning to accept gays and lesbians; new freedom in all the arts to explore human sexuality; Playboy magazine, etc, etc.
You really think we'd be better off with the stifling repression of the 1950s?
| 560 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:27:16pm |
re: #555 Jadespring
Yes but on the good side we probably wouldn't have to put up with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
We'd have to put up with Paris no matter what. She's a Hilton, and this country is obsessed with wealth and status.
| 561 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:27:24pm |
I see that GardenWeb has a whole forum dedicated to growing hot peppers:
[Link: forums.gardenweb.com...]
As a kid I used to grow Bell peppers... not difficult but I had to buy plants as starting from seed would have taken too long (I grew up in an area with a relatively short growing season.)
Peppers mostly come from Mexico, and many like lots of sunshine.
| 562 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:27:47pm |
re: #559 palomino
Sexual revolution results: widespread availability of contraception (including the "pill", which gave women unprecedented freedom); abortion; speaking freely and openly about sex; learning about our bodies; beginning to accept gays and lesbians; new freedom in all the arts to explore human sexuality; Playboy magazine, etc, etc.
You really think we'd be better off with the stifling repression of the 1950s?
you forgot the part about getting laid when the bar closed
| 563 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:28:02pm |
re: #509 marjoriemoon
Absolutely. Not just women in the workplace, but being fully independent equals.
The change in music came with Elvis. The white man singing black music to white girls. Then came the Beatles with their long hair (:>) many other musical influences. But it wasn't Frank Sinatra...
I said the mid 60's. But you're right, it started a decade earlier. Strangely the beatniks and Elvis were part of the same movement.
| 564 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:28:23pm |
re: #560 Lidane
We'd have to put up with Paris no matter what. She's a Hilton, and this country is obsessed with wealth and status.
True. But maybe the sex tape would have been avoided. :)
| 566 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:29:41pm |
re: #555 Jadespring
Yes but on the good side we probably wouldn't have to put up with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
I'm sorry, but every annoying thing about Britney Spears was worth it for this one picture.
| 567 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:30:11pm |
| 569 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:30:34pm |
re: #560 Lidane
We'd have to put up with Paris no matter what. She's a Hilton, and this country is obsessed with wealth and status.
This.
It explains why one of my (few) "throw away" Pages happens to be the most viewed (I think) LGF Page.
| 570 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:30:37pm |
re: #515 Gus 802
Oh right him too of course. Marlon Brando was up there too.
Right on, he was the original motorcycle rebel in The Wild One.
| 572 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:32:28pm |
re: #566 mracb
I'm sorry, but every annoying thing about Britney Spears was worth it for this one picture.
she's a wannabe...totally unoriginal, and less than half the vibe of MMonroe for example...just another nobody stealing someone else's riff and selling it to the ignorant
| 573 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:32:32pm |
re: #563 palomino
I said the mid 60's. But you're right, it started a decade earlier. Strangely the beatniks and Elvis were part of the same movement.
Elvis gets the credit for bringing it mainstream, while the beatniks were pretty much still fringe.
| 574 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:32:33pm |
| 575 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:33:17pm |
re: #563 palomino
I said the mid 60's. But you're right, it started a decade earlier. Strangely the beatniks and Elvis were part of the same movement.
'Tis why the Colonel had to smack him down so hard. Elvis was really more potentially dangerous than he was in reality and when you remember how much he did achieve?
Thank god for the "comeback special". Get if from Netflix if you haven't seen it. It will prove how dangerous Elvis was, even then. Glorious stuff.
| 576 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:33:32pm |
re: #537 freetoken
Are you near the coast?
Studio City, in San Fernando Valley, about 15 mi from Pacific Ocean.
| 577 |
lostlakehiker Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:33:45pm |
re: #521 Lidane
Depends on how you look at it.
Personally, I like being able to openly own my sexuality and my sex life. I like the fact that we've evolved enough to where a woman's consent is taken seriously, except by some ignorant, backwards-thinking assholes. I like the fact that as a woman, I can admit to things like enjoying sex and the occasional bit of porn and not be slut-shamed for either.
We've come a long way. We've still got farther to go, but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was when my mom was growing up.
But how does it work out for society as a whole? One of the whole points of the previous social rules was that kids got to grow up with their fathers. Their biological fathers, to be precise.
This, as long experience has shown, is good for the kids most of the time. It's also good for the father, who gets a reason to settle down and find his groove.
Even in the Victorian age, men and women made the usual arrangements and a good time was had by all. Now, we're paying a price in more troubled kids, growing up halfway rudderless.
There has to be some happy medium, where recreational sex has its place for those who don't want that for-better-for-worse contract with its joys and challenges, but where parenthood is taken more seriously.
| 578 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:34:32pm |
re: #541 mracb
are you getting flowers? I grow several kinds of peppers including jalapeno up in the east bay hills. good potting soil? they took a long time to grow this last year. I didn't get any till late season and we plant around April up here.
thanks, will stick with it.
| 579 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:34:32pm |
re: #566 mracb
I'm sorry, but every annoying thing about Britney Spears was worth it for this one picture.
Nice. But then, she's always been my favorite train wreck.
| 580 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:34:43pm |
re: #572 albusteve
she's a wannabe...totally unoriginal, and less than half the vibe of MMonroe for example...just another nobody stealing someone else's riff and selling it to the ignorant
while she's not in the same class as Marilyn or Angie Dickinson(the original pose that Britney posed for), she still looks hot in that sweater.
| 581 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:35:38pm |
| 582 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:35:51pm |
re: #550 albusteve
no, but I knew people that had a regular gig out of Nogales for a couple of years...they got into guns tho, got into a running shootout stateside and never did it again...some bold people there, VN vets
Man, I'll say it again: you're my (anti) hero.
| 583 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:36:48pm |
re: #552 Gus 802
Phylis Schlafly!
//
Only her son Andy is more retarded pathetic. Watch his interview with Colbert on Comedy Central. Classic normal person vs. imbecile.
| 584 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:36:59pm |
re: #577 lostlakehiker
One of the whole points of the previous social rules was that kids got to grow up with their fathers. Their biological fathers, to be precise.
That's a nice happy ideal, but not all of us had it. In my case, my father, older sister, and older brother died in a car accident when I was three months old. I have never, ever had a concept of what having two parents means, or any idea what passes for "normal" as far as social rules or whatever the hell society expects.
To me, all that wishing for how things used to be is just as much of a fairy tale as anything Disney ever produced. It's a completely foreign concept to me, so I look at all that nostalgia and don't get it.
| 585 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:37:06pm |
re: #577 lostlakehiker
Even in the Victorian age, men and women made the usual arrangements and a good time was had by all. Now, we're paying a price in more troubled kids, growing up halfway rudderless.
A good time was not had by all. A good time was had by men.
Women did not have the right to leave bad and/or abusive relationships. It wasn't up until the 50s that a woman could even get a divorce on her own. You had to move to Vegas and establish 6 months residence, and only then could you file alone.
| 586 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:37:14pm |
re: #582 palomino
Man, I'll say it again: you're my (anti) hero.
nah, I was just having fun...free money!
| 587 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:37:19pm |
re: #574 palomino
No. I'm guessing that's bad?
Yes. No flowers means no peppers. It's likely what Killgore suggested. Not the season, if outdoors or indoors not proper light.
Other then that if you're fertilizing either stop or cut back on the nitrogen at least until they flower. Once they do flower they should self pollinate but you can help by giving the plant a shake now and then.
| 589 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:37:52pm |
| 590 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:37:56pm |
re: #562 albusteve
you forgot the part about getting laid when the bar closed
It's just like me to forget the best part.
| 591 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:38:57pm |
re: #587 Jadespring
Yes. No flowers means no peppers. It's likely what Killgore suggested. Not the season, if outdoors or indoors not proper light.
Other then that if you're fertilizing either stop or cut back on the nitrogen at least until they flower. Once they do flower they should self pollinate but you can help by giving the plant a shake now and then.
I rub the flowers against each other. big group sex thing happens.
| 592 |
Big Joe Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:40:03pm |
but really, in CA last year the growing season was totally messed up. I didn't get tomatoes till october.
| 595 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:41:09pm |
re: #575 wlewisiii
'Tis why the Colonel had to smack him down so hard. Elvis was really more potentially dangerous than he was in reality and when you remember how much he did achieve?
Thank god for the "comeback special". Get if from Netflix if you haven't seen it. It will prove how dangerous Elvis was, even then. Glorious stuff.
That's the one with him in the black leather jacket in a small theater in the round?
If so, I've only seen parts of it, but thought it was fantastic. Would also highly recommend.
| 596 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:41:09pm |
re: #587 Jadespring
Yes. No flowers means no peppers. It's likely what Killgore suggested. Not the season, if outdoors or indoors not proper light.
Other then that if you're fertilizing either stop or cut back on the nitrogen at least until they flower. Once they do flower they should self pollinate but you can help by giving the plant a shake now and then.
isn't flowering determined by the length of sunlight in a day?
| 597 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:41:37pm |
re: #584 Lidane
That's a nice happy ideal, but not all of us had it. In my case, my father, older sister, and older brother died in a car accident when I was three months old. I have never, ever had a concept of what having two parents means, or any idea what passes for "normal" as far as social rules or whatever the hell society expects.
To me, all that wishing for how things used to be is just as much of a fairy tale as anything Disney ever produced. It's a completely foreign concept to me, so I look at all that nostalgia and don't get it.
Ugh! I find it shockingly surprising that there are some men folk here that are this threatened about an independent woman.
Just because she CAN leave you doesn't mean she WILL unless you're a moron.
My father was not that kind of man, thank goodness and he was born in 1926. He helped me become independent and self-confident (my mom, too).
| 598 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:41:39pm |
re: #577 lostlakehiker
But how does it work out for society as a whole? One of the whole points of the previous social rules was that kids got to grow up with their fathers. Their biological fathers, to be precise.
This, as long experience has shown, is good for the kids most of the time. It's also good for the father, who gets a reason to settle down and find his groove.
Even in the Victorian age, men and women made the usual arrangements and a good time was had by all. Now, we're paying a price in more troubled kids, growing up halfway rudderless.
There has to be some happy medium, where recreational sex has its place for those who don't want that for-better-for-worse contract with its joys and challenges, but where parenthood is taken more seriously.
The happy medium is birth control being the absolute cultural norm that everyone uses with no issues.
| 599 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:42:38pm |
re: #586 albusteve
nah, I was just having fun...free money!
Not free, man, you risked a lot. Takes guts. Penalties back then were way stiffer, no?
| 600 |
lostlakehiker Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:43:22pm |
re: #542 marjoriemoon
I was thinking about this today. What's going to happen to the Egypt/Gaza border after all this plays out? The Philadelphi corridor.
Anybody's guess. If the MB wins in Egypt, then the corridor will be opened and Gaza will be in a position to launch more rocket artillery at Israel. That will provoke a fight, if Egypt stands aside from Gaza's spanking, or a war, if Egypt tries its military luck.
If cooler heads prevail in Egypt, the corridor will be opened part way, but not wide open with industrial quantities of munitions heading for the "front". This Egyptian revolution isn't going to end in a glorious happily ever after. It'll be at best a mixed bag. But that's par for the course. Mubarak's time has passed and we can only tinker at the edges of what comes next.
| 602 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:44:12pm |
re: #595 palomino
That's the one with him in the black leather jacket in a small theater in the round?
If so, I've only seen parts of it, but thought it was fantastic. Would also highly recommend.
his comeback tapes in Vegas are terrific, from the MGM documentary...small little stage with some original band members
| 603 |
sizzleRI Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:45:13pm |
re: #585 marjoriemoon
A good time was not had by all. A good time was had by men.
Women did not have the right to leave bad and/or abusive relationships. It wasn't up until the 50s that a woman could even get a divorce on her own. You had to move to Vegas and establish 6 months residence, and only then could you file alone.
There is so much I wanted to respond with LostLakeHiker's post. But right there is all of my anger and opposition boiled down. Thank you MM.
| 604 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:45:37pm |
| 605 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:46:24pm |
re: #600 lostlakehiker
Anybody's guess. If the MB wins in Egypt, then the corridor will be opened and Gaza will be in a position to launch more rocket artillery at Israel. That will provoke a fight, if Egypt stands aside from Gaza's spanking, or a war, if Egypt tries its military luck.
If cooler heads prevail in Egypt, the corridor will be opened part way, but not wide open with industrial quantities of munitions heading for the "front". This Egyptian revolution isn't going to end in a glorious happily ever after. It'll be at best a mixed bag. But that's par for the course. Mubarak's time has passed and we can only tinker at the edges of what comes next.
We should be guarding that border but I can't see that happening now. We never should have left it actually. Israel is not going to let Gaza get weapons, least I would hope not.
And who pray tell would be giving them weapons?? Can you say.....
S A T A N
(or the Muslim Brotherhood, same thing)
| 606 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:46:51pm |
re: #597 marjoriemoon
Ugh! I find it shockingly surprising that there are some men folk here that are this threatened about an independent woman.
Just because she CAN leave you doesn't mean she WILL unless you're a moron.
My father was not that kind of man, thank goodness and he was born in 1926. He helped me become independent and self-confident (my mom, too).
I've had no choice but to be independent. I don't know anything else. I had to pretty much raise myself in a lot of ways, and now, I'm putting myself through grad school on my own.
The ideal of having a dad around is nice and all, but I'll never understand it. I didn't know my dad at all, so I have nothing to relate to in that regard.
| 607 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:47:24pm |
re: #599 palomino
Not free, man, you risked a lot. Takes guts. Penalties back then were way stiffer, no?
yes, sales was a felony in MI until 73 I think...20yrs....Texas was even more harsh but I don't recall specifically....I stayed out of Texas...and Jamaica was one of those places where you might fall into a black hole and disappear
| 608 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:47:26pm |
re: #595 palomino
That's the one with him in the black leather jacket in a small theater in the round?
If so, I've only seen parts of it, but thought it was fantastic. Would also highly recommend.
Yep, that was the NBC 1968 show. Killer performance. I won't lay claim to being a big Elvis fan but what I am comes from that one show when everything went right.
| 609 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:47:33pm |
re: #603 sizzleRI
There is so much I wanted to respond with LostLakeHiker's post. But right there is all of my anger and opposition boiled down. Thank you MM.
My pleasure :) I had more to say, but I'm sleepy so can't rant to my satisfaction.
| 610 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:48:22pm |
re: #602 albusteve
his comeback tapes in Vegas are terrific, from the MGM documentary...small little stage with some original band members
the greats are always better live. (OK, there are some exceptions like the Beatles, but...)
anyway, it's why I've built up a decent little collection of concerts and other live footage on DVD. Who, Stones, Jimi, some more recent stuff like U2, Pearl Jam, QOTSA, etc. Why just hear the Who or Elvis when you can watch and hear them?
| 611 |
sizzleRI Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:50:10pm |
re: #610 palomino
the greats are always better live. (OK, there are some exceptions like the Beatles, but...)
anyway, it's why I've built up a decent little collection of concerts and other live footage on DVD. Who, Stones, Jimi, some more recent stuff like U2, Pearl Jam, QOTSA, etc. Why just hear the Who or Elvis when you can watch and hear them?
I am a huge Dylan fan.
Not better live, at least not in my lifetime.
| 612 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:50:28pm |
re: #605 marjoriemoon
We should be guarding that border but I can't see that happening now. We never should have left it actually. Israel is not going to let Gaza get weapons, least I would hope not.
And who pray tell would be giving them weapons?? Can you say...
S A T A N
(or the Muslim Brotherhood, same thing)
the IDF should gave utterly destroyed the tunnels on the Gaza side and strived to get Egypt to do the same...but then I thought they should have occupied Gaza until all weapons etc were found and destroyed too...I'm hard core like that
| 613 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:50:46pm |
re: #606 Lidane
I've had no choice but to be independent. I don't know anything else. I had to pretty much raise myself in a lot of ways, and now, I'm putting myself through grad school on my own.
The ideal of having a dad around is nice and all, but I'll never understand it. I didn't know my dad at all, so I have nothing to relate to in that regard.
My dad was a good man and I know how lucky I am to say that. I'm sorry to hear your story. It's very sad!
We had some family hardships and I grew up pretty quickly. Been working since I was 14. Hardships do make you stronger and wiser... it's the consolation :) And you're a wise lady.
| 614 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:51:07pm |
re: #585 marjoriemoon
A good time was not had by all. A good time was had by men.
Women did not have the right to leave bad and/or abusive relationships. It wasn't up until the 50s that a woman could even get a divorce on her own. You had to move to Vegas and establish 6 months residence, and only then could you file alone.
And three guesses how the women who did go there were expected to make their living. Feh.
| 615 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:53:21pm |
re: #610 palomino
the greats are always better live. (OK, there are some exceptions like the Beatles, but...)
anyway, it's why I've built up a decent little collection of concerts and other live footage on DVD. Who, Stones, Jimi, some more recent stuff like U2, Pearl Jam, QOTSA, etc. Why just hear the Who or Elvis when you can watch and hear them?
I love that stuff, but I've never collected anything...I think I can get shows like that via Comcast somehow....but I'm a live gig head, I like to be there
| 616 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:53:40pm |
re: #596 albusteve
isn't flowering determined by the length of sunlight in a day?
That's called photoperiodism. I'm not sure if Capsicum (peppers) are photoperiodic.
| 617 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:53:47pm |
re: #612 albusteve
the IDF should gave utterly destroyed the tunnels on the Gaza side and strived to get Egypt to do the same...but then I thought they should have occupied Gaza until all weapons etc were found and destroyed too...I'm hard core like that
Me too. I think Sharon was doing the inevitable. He had as many detractors as supporters. But whatever. We are here now. Israel has weighed every option and then some.
| 618 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:54:44pm |
re: #611 sizzleRI
I am a huge Dylan fan.
Not better live, at least not in my lifetime.
I'm not gonna trot out my Dylan 'live' crap for you...but I've never wasted so much time
| 619 |
lostlakehiker Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:55:35pm |
re: #585 marjoriemoon
A good time was not had by all. A good time was had by men.
Women did not have the right to leave bad and/or abusive relationships. It wasn't up until the 50s that a woman could even get a divorce on her own. You had to move to Vegas and establish 6 months residence, and only then could you file alone.
That's not the way it went back in Kansas, back in the 50s and before. A woman could go her own way if the husband didn't treat her right. Perhaps the law said that there had to be grounds for divorce, but abuse is, and was then, grounds.
As to leaving affairs, which is what I was talking about when I spoke of "good time was had by all", those were always arrangements that either side could walk away from for any reason or none at all.
re: #597 marjoriemoon
Ugh! I find it shockingly surprising that there are some men folk here that are this threatened about an independent woman.
Just because she CAN leave you doesn't mean she WILL unless you're a moron.
My father was not that kind of man, thank goodness and he was born in 1926. He helped me become independent and self-confident (my mom, too).
Well that's great. But it illustrates my point. It is better if men are trained to consider it important that they be a father to their children, that their children need that attention and help. That the mother needs help, even if she doesn't need money help. The idea isn't that women should have to stay, but that men should feel that they ought to stay.
| 620 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:55:59pm |
re: #611 sizzleRI
I am a huge Dylan fan.
Not better live, at least not in my lifetime.
I saw him a few years ago. He was doing this pseudo-country thing at the time. My wife was blown away, I was like eh.
| 621 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:56:58pm |
re: #613 marjoriemoon
My dad was a good man and I know how lucky I am to say that. I'm sorry to hear your story. It's very sad!
We had some family hardships and I grew up pretty quickly. Been working since I was 14. Hardships do make you stronger and wiser... it's the consolation :) And you're a wise lady.
It's sad in a lot of ways, but on the whole, I'm a happy person. There's no point in moping about things that happened when I was in diapers, so I don't. I've had an entire lifetime since then. That's my focus, you know?
| 622 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:57:05pm |
re: #616 freetoken
That's called photoperiodism. I'm not sure if Capsicum (peppers) are photoperiodic.
don't know...but chiles down in Hatch, NM get a ton of sunlight, so much I don't know how a plant could measure it!...stupid chilis are pretty smart
| 624 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 9:59:30pm |
re: #618 albusteve
I'm not gonna trot out my Dylan 'live' crap for you...but I've never wasted so much time
when he plays Tangled Up In Blue and you don't recognize it, something is amiss
| 625 |
tnguitarist Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:00:24pm |
re: #608 wlewisiii
Yep, that was the NBC 1968 show. Killer performance. I won't lay claim to being a big Elvis fan but what I am comes from that one show when everything went right.
It's hard to believe that Elvis never played live outside of the U.S..
| 626 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:00:28pm |
re: #620 palomino
I saw him a few years ago. He was doing this pseudo-country thing at the time. My wife was blown away, I was like eh.
he just signed to write like six more books!
| 627 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:00:39pm |
re: #597 marjoriemoon
Ugh! I find it shockingly surprising that there are some men folk here that are this threatened about an independent woman.
Just because she CAN leave you doesn't mean she WILL unless you're a moron.
My father was not that kind of man, thank goodness and he was born in 1926. He helped me become independent and self-confident (my mom, too).
Another thing is that before the sexual revolution and it's counter part woman's rights, socially there wasn't a whole lot of choice for what women actually did. You got married and had kids. Women that didn't do that, or do it right away were weird. My Grandma didn't get married until age 25 and as I found out when I got older she was really, really pressured. She wouldn't settle until she found the right man. She also went to school and got into one of few types of jobs that were acceptable for women. I do remember her saying that she had friends that got married younger and many ended up unhappy. They married because they were supposed to marry. Had kids and that was it. Just stuck.
| 628 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:01:01pm |
re: #610 palomino
the greats are always better live. (OK, there are some exceptions like the Beatles, but...)
anyway, it's why I've built up a decent little collection of concerts and other live footage on DVD. Who, Stones, Jimi, some more recent stuff like U2, Pearl Jam, QOTSA, etc. Why just hear the Who or Elvis when you can watch and hear them?
Saw U2 on Joshua Tree tour in 1987 at Houston Summit. Will see them for second time in a few months at Angels Stadium. Somehow I don't think it will compare. The Summit (now a megachurch) was an intimate venue compared to a baseball stadium. And I'm afraid they're gonna seem past their prime, kinda like every 40-year old basketball player in the NBA.
| 629 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:01:40pm |
re: #619 lostlakehiker
That's not the way it went back in Kansas, back in the 50s and before. A woman could go her own way if the husband didn't treat her right. Perhaps the law said that there had to be grounds for divorce, but abuse is, and was then, grounds.
As to leaving affairs, which is what I was talking about when I spoke of "good time was had by all", those were always arrangements that either side could walk away from for any reason or none at all.
I don't know what you're talking about. What job could a woman do in early 1950s? 40s? She had 3 choices of profession. nurse, teacher, telephone operator, with very few options in between. How would she support herself? A divorced woman was shunned in the 40s. She was a wanton woman. She wore a scarlet letter (figuratively) so I don't know what you're going on about. We ain't in Kansas.
Well that's great. But it illustrates my point. It is better if men are trained to consider it important that they be a father to their children, that their children need that attention and help. That the mother needs help, even if she doesn't need money help. The idea isn't that women should have to stay, but that men should feel that they ought to stay.
When you find this most perfect world, then you come let me know. In the meantime, I want the option of taking care of myself and my family.
| 630 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:03:41pm |
re: #625 tnguitarist
It's hard to believe that Elvis never played live outside of the U.S..
it is, but his rise to fame was short lived, before his army thing....then it was movies and he didn't perform...then he was sick and would hardly leave home...finally his Vegas thing would have been the time to perform abroad, but it was so demanding and he was not in real good shape...just thinking out loud here
| 631 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:03:42pm |
re: #627 Jadespring
Not only that, but if a woman DID go to school, she was expected to study traditional things (my mom's degree was in Home Economics, for crying out loud) and wasn't expected to graduate. You went to college back then to find a man and get your MRS. degree, not to actually improve or educate yourself.
| 632 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:05:25pm |
re: #629 marjoriemoon
When you find this most perfect world, then you come let me know. In the meantime, I want the option of taking care of myself and my family.
+1
| 633 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:05:26pm |
re: #627 Jadespring
Another thing is that before the sexual revolution and it's counter part woman's rights, socially there wasn't a whole lot of choice for what women actually did. You got married and had kids. Women that didn't do that, or do it right away were weird. My Grandma didn't get married until age 25 and as I found out when I got older she was really, really pressured. She wouldn't settle until she found the right man. She also went to school and got into one of few types of jobs that were acceptable for women. I do remember her saying that she had friends that got married younger and many ended up unhappy. They married because they were supposed to marry. Had kids and that was it. Just stuck.
Absolutely! 25 was practically an old maid!
My grandmother went to college which was a big deal. She was born 1890 in Hungary. I don't know when she came here, but went to college in NY (I have to ask my mom now hehe).
| 634 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:06:54pm |
re: #629 marjoriemoon
Well, back in the 50's my mother worked as a solderer on military aircraft. Those kind of jobs were available, but usually only in the big cities.
re: #631 Lidane
I went to a large university, which had more men than women as students, and I'd say about half the women I met there were going for their Mrs. degree. This was in the late 70's.
| 635 |
sizzleRI Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:07:02pm |
re: #624 albusteve
when he plays Tangled Up In Blue and you don't recognize it, something is amiss
I saw him play in 2004. After 2 and 1/2 minutes of a song I turned to my friend and said, "this is tambourine man?!"
Glad to know others have experienced. I was born 30 years too late.
| 636 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:07:29pm |
re: #628 palomino
Saw U2 on Joshua Tree tour in 1987 at Houston Summit. Will see them for second time in a few months at Angels Stadium. Somehow I don't think it will compare. The Summit (now a megachurch) was an intimate venue compared to a baseball stadium. And I'm afraid they're gonna seem past their prime, kinda like every 40-year old basketball player in the NBA.
yeah, it always happens...I'm surprised they are doing such large venues, but like K Richards said, it's for the fans...and I'm sure U2 will sell out their shows, if not they will have egg on their face...it's not if they can hit all the high notes, so to speak, it's about having that old energy, the fire to perform...fans can be forgiving when you give it your all....that's why the Stones can keep going
| 637 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:09:24pm |
re: #630 albusteve
it is, but his rise to fame was short lived, before his army thing...then it was movies and he didn't perform...then he was sick and would hardly leave home...finally his Vegas thing would have been the time to perform abroad, but it was so demanding and he was not in real good shape...just thinking out loud here
How many singers traveled abroad in those days? Sinatra? Perry Como? Tony Bennett?
| 638 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:09:51pm |
re: #631 Lidane
Not only that, but if a woman DID go to school, she was expected to study traditional things (my mom's degree was in Home Economics, for crying out loud) and wasn't expected to graduate. You went to college back then to find a man and get your MRS. degree, not to actually improve or educate yourself.
When I was in college it was a battle. If you were in a traditionally "man' degree. We had to work so much harder. One of my roommates was in engineering. She was one of 3 chicks in a 50 person class. Tough, but we did it.
Then all of a sudden, it was back to sexuality for women. From Britney, to Paris to Kim Kardashian. And all the local women who act the same.
I am still so pissed that the hard work was just tossed, because being sexual
| 639 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:09:56pm |
re: #635 sizzleRI
I saw him play in 2004. After 2 and 1/2 minutes of a song I turned to my friend and said, "this is tambourine man?!"
Glad to know others have experienced. I was born 30 years too late.
yeah, it's a universal complaint....he never plays anything the same and some stuff is so convoluted, it's really not the same tune....he just doesn't give a fuck
| 640 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:10:47pm |
re: #634 freetoken
Well, back in the 50's my mother worked as a solderer on military aircraft. Those kind of jobs were available, but usually only in the big cities.
Rosie the Riveter. I'm truly impressed!
| 641 |
palomino Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:11:38pm |
re: #636 albusteve
yeah, it always happens...I'm surprised they are doing such large venues, but like K Richards said, it's for the fans...and I'm sure U2 will sell out their shows, if not they will have egg on their face...it's not if they can hit all the high notes, so to speak, it's about having that old energy, the fire to perform...fans can be forgiving when you give it your all...that's why the Stones can keep going
have you seen "it might get loud?"
| 642 |
sizzleRI Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:12:11pm |
re: #639 albusteve
yeah, it's a universal complaint...he never plays anything the same and some stuff is so convoluted, it's really not the same tune...he just doesn't give a fuck
I can understand. You play the same shit for 40 years, well I get the attitude.
I do remember walking by him. Mini guy with a big black hat.
| 643 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:12:31pm |
re: #638 Stanley Sea
Steve, I have your mouse disease.
Because being sexual paid off more for these lame ass women.
That's all.
| 644 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:13:04pm |
re: #640 marjoriemoon
Rosie the Riveter. I'm truly impressed!
my mom really was...she built B-25s in Ypsilanti Mi, while my dad was overseas with the Marines...she lived over there with a couple of other girls in a small flat, first time away from home
| 645 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:14:30pm |
re: #641 palomino
have you seen "it might get loud?"
don't think so...I haven't even seen the Stone's 'Shine A Light' yet
| 646 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:14:31pm |
re: #644 albusteve
my mom really was...she built B-25s in Ypsilanti Mi, while my dad was overseas with the Marines...she lived over there with a couple of other girls in a small flat, first time away from home
That's just way too cool. Freetoken, too, apparently. The image just flashed in my mind.
| 647 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:14:52pm |
re: #639 albusteve
One of the first shows I ever saw was Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers and Bob Dylan on tour together. I wish I could remember more of it, but I know I had a good time.
| 648 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:14:56pm |
re: #631 Lidane
re: #633 marjoriemoon
My Grandma got a diploma in hospital administration and worked in a hospital. (1930's) Basically a glorified secretary type job. She then married a farmer and had to learn that job as well. She eventually went back to a hospital work in the late 60s after all the kids were gone. Cool thing was that by the mid 70's her job was more admin then secretary.
| 649 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:15:27pm |
re: #640 marjoriemoon
Rosie the Riveter. I'm truly impressed!
Well, this was after WWII, in the early 50's.
The aerospace industry, and similar manufacturers, would use women for detail work - work that involved manipulating small objects, etc. I don't remember much of what my mother told me about the time, but she worked for one of the defense companies here in SD. It was probably the best paying types of jobs a woman (without a degree) could get back in those days.
| 650 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:16:15pm |
re: #643 Stanley Sea
Steve, I have your mouse disease.
Because being sexual paid off more for these lame ass women.
That's all.
oh no...I replaced mine
| 651 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:17:45pm |
Speaking of sex and the good ol days:
Cabinet of Love shows seedy success of 18th century poetry in Oxford University revelation
When a compilation of works by some of the finest poets of the day was published in 1714, the presence of names such as Wordsworth, Keats, Byron and their peers should have been enough to ensure a bestseller.
The book they appeared in, The Works of the Earls of Rochester and Roscommon, flew off the shelves, but a new discovery suggests that their success owed more to a sordid insert than a deep public hunger for highbrow art at the dawn of the Georgian era.
“I had just finished entering details of poems typical of miscellanies of the period – satires, imitations and amatory verse – when at the end of the second volume a new title page announced the start of The Cabinet of Love,” confides Dr Claudine van Hensbergen, who was cataloguing compendiums for Oxford University’s Digital Miscellanies Index project when he found the addition to the book.
“To my surprise, The Cabinet turned out to be a collection of pornographic verse about dildos. The poems include Dildoides, a poem attributed to Samuel Butler about the public burning of French-imported dildos, The Delights of Venus, a poem in which a married woman gives her younger friend an explicit account of the joys of sex, and The Discovery, a poem about a man hiding in a woman’s room to watch her masturbate in bed.”
[...]
Pretty racy for the good ol days, eh?
| 652 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:18:09pm |
re: #642 sizzleRI
I can understand. You play the same shit for 40 years, well I get the attitude.
I do remember walking by him. Mini guy with a big black hat.
I know people that have met him and say he's a chatty, nice guy...I think he has some problems identifying with the godlike fame people put on him, not at all comfortable with it
| 653 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:18:58pm |
re: #634 freetoken
Well, back in the 50's my mother worked as a solderer on military aircraft. Those kind of jobs were available, but usually only in the big cities.
And most of those types of jobs became available because of the war. Woman had to take them during that time. If you really want to blame women's lib in terms of 'work' on anything. Blame WWII. The seeds were really planted then because many women found themselves doing non-traditional jobs and when it was over found that they rather liked it. Yes good many went back to the kitchens but the precedent had been set.
| 654 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:19:57pm |
re: #647 Lidane
One of the first shows I ever saw was Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers and Bob Dylan on tour together. I wish I could remember more of it, but I know I had a good time.
that would be a pretty good show...I'd go see Petty in a heartbeat at the right venue...I'm really picky about venues
| 655 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:22:14pm |
re: #646 marjoriemoon
That's just way too cool. Freetoken, too, apparently. The image just flashed in my mind.
yeah...my mom had nothing else to do, my dad was gone for 3 years....he left the states only a few months after they were married...ma, I dunno, that seems rough
| 656 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:23:43pm |
re: #654 albusteve
that would be a pretty good show...I'd go see Petty in a heartbeat at the right venue...I'm really picky about venues
Interesting factoid. One of my clients is a major concert goer. He says the best shows are in LA, because the crowd includes all the friends, critics, fellow artists, therefore they must perform, at their best.
| 657 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:24:28pm |
re: #648 Jadespring
re: #633 marjoriemoon
My Grandma got a diploma in hospital administration and worked in a hospital. (1930's) Basically a glorified secretary type job. She then married a farmer and had to learn that job as well. She eventually went back to a hospital work in the late 60s after all the kids were gone. Cool thing was that by the mid 70's her job was more admin then secretary.
That's what I forgot, secretary! Four jobs women did, secretary!, nurse, teacher and telephone operator.
My grandmother had no children, but was married. She had two sisters. Each died. My father's mother died when he was 1 from tuberculosis. The other sister passed and left two sons. So my grandmother (technically my great aunt - my dad's aunt) raised all 3 boys as her own. I suspect that put the lid on any plans she had outside the home.
| 658 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:25:29pm |
re: #651 freetoken
Speaking of sex and the good ol days:
Cabinet of Love shows seedy success of 18th century poetry in Oxford University revelation
Pretty racy for the good ol days, eh?
Well that's the thing. There's was always this type of stuff around. People had sex and wanted to have sex. The 60's and on basically made it okay to bring it out into the open instead of keeping it stuffed in the closets and back parlors.
Women got pregnant before marriage too. If you didn't get shotgunned and were wealthy enough you got an abortion or were sent to a special girls school and if you weren't wealthy sent to Aunt Jenny's upstate or found someone with a coat hanger in a back alley.
| 659 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:27:11pm |
re: #656 Stanley Sea
Interesting factoid. One of my clients is a major concert goer. He says the best shows are in LA, because the crowd includes all the friends, critics, fellow artists, therefore they must perform, at their best.
or Detroit which is notoriously tough...but LA is the big enchilada
| 661 |
sizzleRI Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:29:39pm |
re: #658 Jadespring
Well that's the thing. There's was always this type of stuff around. People had sex and wanted to have sex. The 60's and on basically made it okay to bring it out into the open instead of keeping it stuffed in the closets and back parlors.
Women got pregnant before marriage too. If you didn't get shotgunned and were wealthy enough you got an abortion or were sent to a special girls school and if you weren't wealthy sent to Aunt Jenny's upstate or found someone with a coat hanger in a back alley.
My dad tells me that when he was in high school/college the girls went to New York for a short trip. And everyone knew what that meant.
| 662 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:31:52pm |
re: #657 marjoriemoon
That's what I forgot, secretary! Four jobs women did, secretary!, nurse, teacher and telephone operator.
My grandmother had no children, but was married. She had two sisters. Each died. My father's mother died when he was 1 from tuberculosis. The other sister passed and left two sons. So my grandmother (technically my great aunt - my dad's aunt) raised all 3 boys as her own. I suspect that put the lid on any plans she had outside the home.
By the way, each of these women, my great aunts who passed away, their husbands didn't want the children. I'm not sure it was so much that they didn't want them, they had no means of caring for them without a wife. There were no nannies, no daycare. Orphanages, yes. So you know, the sexual revolution was good for men, absolutely.
The husbands welcomed my grandmother and grandfather adopting their boys.
| 663 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:05:53pm |
Ahh, late back and missed the weed discussion. :(
A few points:
re: #348 Jadespring
Pot is easy to grow. Plant it. Wait. Water. Wait. Water. Oh look! Pot.
Very easy to grow. It practically grows itself. They call it weed and camp flower for a reason.
re: #350 jamesfirecat
I hear you have to be careful how far apart you sow the seeds or else you end up with hemp...
No, it will only affect the vigor of the plants. Hemp has different genetics.
re: #354 Cannadian Club Akbar
18 hours of sun and 6 hours of darksness to make great buds.
That's only for the vegetative stage. It won't flower with more than 12 hours light.
re: #358 albusteve
seriously?...hemp is a different species
No, same species Cannabis sativa, just bred for low THC and high fiber content.
re: #398 brookly red
Pot bores the shit out of me, but if you are into that stuff then what they grow in Vietnam/Thailand is the real deal.
re: #408 brookly red
not even close.
You don't have a clue. Domestic indoor hydro or organic beats the pants off anything from Vietnam/Thailand. Part is in the genetics and part is in the growing techniques. You shouldn't be surprised what a strong profit motive can push people to figure out.
re: #418 albusteve
different subspecies...
sativa is hemp
indica is for smoking
you are confusing yourself...
look it up
Sativa and Indica are both psychoactive, with slightly different effects. Hemp is a variety of sativa bred for fiber and low THC.
Personally, I prefer a good sativa over a good indica. The indica can lead to couch lock, while the sativas are more cerebral.
| 664 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:06:16pm |
Bah, later than late. Everyone is logging off or moving upthread. :(
| 665 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:47:17am |
re: #651 freetoken
Speaking of sex and the good ol days:
Cabinet of Love shows seedy success of 18th century poetry in Oxford University revelation
Pretty racy for the good ol days, eh?
One of the Earls of Rochester was a completely out-of-control pornographer, played by Johnny Depp in "The Libertine".
[Link: www.imdb.com...]
| 666 |
Decider Sun, Feb 6, 2011 1:21:57am |
Rand is right. I agree with him on a lot of things. I just wish he was not so nutty.
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