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More Republican Attacks on Women’s Rights

The right wing war against women’s rights
Politics • Views: 28,008

Two more fronts have opened up in the Republican Party’s open war on women’s rights:

In Ohio, a GOP Representative is introducing a bill that would redefine human life to begin as soon as a heartbeat is audible.

State Rep. Lynn Wachtmann is planning to unveil the “Heartbeat Bill” and a legislative aide for the Republican tells Fox News that 42 of the 99 representatives in the Ohio state House have signed on to the bill, which would make an exception to the heartbeat rule only in emergency medical situations. 

According to 2009 data from the Ohio Department of Health, 56.6 percent of abortions in that state occur in the first nine weeks of pregnancy. And since the fetal heartbeat appears on monitors by six weeks into gestation in most cases, supporters of the bill believe that it could prevent thousands of abortions. 

“When the Heartbeat Bill passes, it will be the most protective law in the nation,” Janet Folger Porter, president of conservative advocacy group Faith2Action, said in a release. Porter helped craft the bill, and was also instrumental in passing the nation’s first ban in partial-birth abortion when she was legislative director of Ohio Right to Life. 

And in Texas, a proposed law would force pregnant women considering an abortion to see an ultrasound of their fetus and listen to audio of its heartbeat.

AUSTIN, TEXAS—A Texas Senate committee will begin considering an anti-abortion measure this week that, if passed, would be one of the strongest in the nation. The bill mandates that pregnant women be shown an ultrasound of the fetus at least two hours before an abortion.

Physicians also would be required to explain the grainy image, including a description of the fetus’ dimensions and, if applicable, the presence of limbs or internal organs. If audible, the fetal heartbeat would have to be played for the woman as well.

Supporters of the bill hope the extra steps persuade more women to give birth and reduce the number of abortions in Texas.

But critics say the bill would violate women’s and physicians’ civil liberties and, for women who go through with the abortion, could make a wrenching decision more difficult to bear.

One of the common talking points of the anti-choice crowd is that women who have abortions are likely to suffer mental problems; so of course, the Republican solution is to try to make those mental problems worse.

Also see:
Study: Abortion and Mental Problems Are Not Related

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369 comments

1 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:05:30pm

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:05:49pm

So let’s recap,

Recently the GOP has:

Attempted to redefine rape.

Attempted to restrict birth control.

Attempted a bill that would have mothers die rather than receive emergency treatment

Attempted to push these two execrable bills

While scantily clad women push propaganda on their network Fox that will make America a most Taliban like place for women.

3 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:05:49pm

Women are nothing but broodmares tethered to their stalls, at the mercy of their keepers.

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:06:45pm

re: #3 theheat

Women are nothing but broodmares tethered to their stalls, at the mercy of their keepers.

But if you watch Fox News, they are happier that way, just look at the crotch shots!

5 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:07:12pm
6 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:07:51pm

Welcome to Jesusland.
Home of the Whopper.

7 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:08:37pm

Every time I read things like this, it makes me wonder why any woman would want to be a Republican. The GOP clearly hates women, given the sheer amount of misogynist bullshit they keep pulling lately.

That’s not to say the Dems are saints, but at least they don’t treat women like they only have one purpose in life (i.e., breeding) whether they like it or not.

8 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:10:29pm

re: #7 Lidane

Every time I read things like this, it makes me wonder why any woman would want to be a Republican. The GOP clearly hates women, given the sheer amount of misogynist bullshit they keep pulling lately.

That’s not to say the Dems are saints, but at least they don’t treat women like they only have one purpose in life (i.e., breeding) whether they like it or not.

Don’t worry your pretty little head about it. You know that if you think to much it will take blood flow away from your uterus.

////

I really hate these scumbags, and it is precisely because of this that I detest the women on Fox so much.

9 elizajane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:13:40pm

Deaf women will be forbidden to have abortions altogether because they cannot hear their fetus’s heartbeat.

Did you notice Chris Barron from GOProud telling the Republicans to lay off hating gays and concentrate their energies on defunding Planned Parenthood and banning abortion? Right, I want a gay man to make my daughters’ reproductive decisions for them. In principle I was kind of on GOProud’s side, but no more.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

10 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:15:15pm

re: #9 elizajane

GayPROUD have allowed themselves to be ill-tolerated tools. Tools, nonetheless.

11 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:15:36pm

Lets have more children while at the same time cutting healthcare and education. Yeah, thats a winning combination right there.

Thanks for turning us into a 3rd world economy.

12 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:16:20pm

re: #9 elizajane

Deaf women will be forbidden to have abortions altogether because they cannot hear their fetus’s heartbeat.

Did you notice Chris Barron from GOProud telling the Republicans to lay off hating gays and concentrate their energies on defunding Planned Parenthood and banning abortion? Right, I want a gay man to make my daughters’ reproductive decisions for them. In principle I was kind of on GOProud’s side, but no more.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

as far as i’m concerned goproud isn’t even on their own side.

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:16:41pm

re: #9 elizajane

Deaf women will be forbidden to have abortions altogether because they cannot hear their fetus’s heartbeat.

Did you notice Chris Barron from GOProud telling the Republicans to lay off hating gays and concentrate their energies on defunding Planned Parenthood and banning abortion? Right, I want a gay man to make my daughters’ reproductive decisions for them. In principle I was kind of on GOProud’s side, but no more.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

Gay Republicans are already by definition either crazy and self hating or they are soulless and greedy and see a way to advance themselves at the expense of their fellows..

Just like GOP women.

Or black GOP people.

Or the Hispanic ones.

As for myself, the ones I hate the most and see as the most treacherous are the Jewish ones. We should know better.

14 kirkspencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:16:53pm

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lets have more children while at the same time cutting healthcare and education. Yeah, thats a winning combination right there.

Thanks for turning us into a 3rd world economy.

They want us to be El Salvador.

15 Tumulus11  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:17:41pm
‘A provision in the current proposal allows women to avert their eyes. But from a practical standpoint, whether a woman may choose not to hear the description and heartbeat of the fetus is unclear.’


. This bill is punitive and cruel.

16 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:17:47pm

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Family PLANNING does not equate abortion. But it takes the roll of the dice whether lovemaking, rape, or sportfucking ends in pregnancy out of God’s hands, so it’s a naughty word.

All conception is beautiful and divine, dontchya know.

17 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:18:13pm

re: #15 Tumulus11

. This bill is punitive and cruel.

Cruel and Unusual!

18 leftynyc  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:18:38pm

re: #1 ggt

arghhh!

My sentiments exactly. What have the repubicans done with their “super duper majority mandate” other than try and screw over half the population? Where are the JOBS they were promising? The teabaggers make me want to vomit.

19 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:18:43pm

re: #9 elizajane

In principle I was kind of on GOProud’s side, but no more.

I’ve never been sympathetic to them. They care more about money than their own human rights.

20 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:19:26pm

re: #16 theheat

Family PLANNING does not equate abortion. But it takes the roll of the dice whether lovemaking, rape, or sportfucking ends in pregnancy out of God’s hands, so it’s a naughty word.

All conception is beautiful and divine, dontchya know.

Yeah, but once those kids need any care, that is their problem for being stupid enough to be born to poor parents. Particularly if they are brown.

I fucking hate the GOP.

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:19:58pm

re: #17 ggt

Cruel and Unusual!

No, quite usual for the Gomorrah Old Party.

22 leftynyc  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:21:16pm

re: #9 elizajane

Deaf women will be forbidden to have abortions altogether because they cannot hear their fetus’s heartbeat.

Did you notice Chris Barron from GOProud telling the Republicans to lay off hating gays and concentrate their energies on defunding Planned Parenthood and banning abortion? Right, I want a gay man to make my daughters’ reproductive decisions for them. In principle I was kind of on GOProud’s side, but no more.

[Link: www.politico.com…]


That is infruiating. My gay friends stand shoulder to shoulder with their women friends, they give money, time and effort for our issues. If any of them ever said something like that to me, I’d scratch their eyes out.

23 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:22:02pm

re: #14 kirkspencer

They want us to be El Salvador.

Nah, the El Salvadorans are better educated than the teabag base. They want us to be 16th century Europe.

24 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:22:53pm
25 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:23:38pm

re: #10 theheat

GayPROUD have allowed themselves to be ill-tolerated tools. Tools, nonetheless.

What can I say? Some people apparently think that taking it in the ass should apply to all aspects of life.

26 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:23:45pm

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote

They want us to be 16th century Europe.

Pretty much. They want the church in charge, women barefoot, pregnant, and ignorant of their own bodies, and anything darker than a loaf of Wonder Bread to know its goddamn place.

It’s nauseating.

27 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:24:09pm

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

Gay Republicans are already by definition either crazy and self hating or they are soulless and greedy and see a way to advance themselves at the expense of their fellows..

Just like GOP women.

Or black GOP people.

Or the Hispanic ones.

As for myself, the ones I hate the most and see as the most treacherous are the Jewish ones. We should know better.

you can add gop muslims to the list. there are still a few.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

That’s an event that ex-Bush administration staffer Suhail Khan, who now heads the conservative group Muslims for America, calls a “little hate fest.” Khan noted that most of the anti-Muslim gathers were “not official CPAC events” and told TPM that Geller’s screening was “laughable.”

Still Khan said he’s all for free speech and that his answer to hateful rhetoric is more speech. One way he’s hitting back: he’ll be moderating a CPAC panel on Friday titled “The Importance of Faith & Religious Liberty in the US & Abroad.”


good luck with that, khan.

28 makeitstop  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:24:44pm

Next up: The Mandatory Pregnancy Act of 2011.

I’d add a sarc tag, but at this point I wouldn’t put anything past these callous SOBs.

29 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:25:00pm

ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH
Why won’t these motherfuckers just leave us the hell alone?

ERA anyone?

30 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:25:27pm

re: #25 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s unkind to other gay people. And a lot of straight people.

31 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:25:36pm

Good to see the GOP taking on the issues that are most important to the American people.

32 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:26:06pm

The GOP, out of the boardroom and into your bedroom.

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:26:08pm

re: #27 zora

you can add gop muslims to the list. there are still a few.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]


good luck with that, khan.

Damn you win. GOP Muslim has got to be the worst - unless she is also Black.

OK, the worst Republican ever:

Lesbian, Black, Muslim woman who adopted a white baby with her Hispanic partner who converted to Judaism.

34 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:26:22pm

re: #31 JasonA

They’re all about fiscal responsibility.

(And other people fucking.)

35 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:26:44pm

re: #30 theheat

That’s unkind to other gay people. And a lot of straight people.

I was not intending to be unkind to anyone like that with that. Apologies if I offended.

36 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:28:32pm

re: #3 theheat

Women are nothing but broodmares tethered to their stalls, at the mercy of their keepers.

I try, but they keep escaping. /

37 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:29:10pm

re: #34 theheat

They’re all about fiscal responsibility.

(And other people fucking.)

Be nice to see this rebranded as a health-care job-killing bill…

38 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:30:04pm

Lila Rose (my new most hated person ever) needs to step up to the plate and start adopting.
And supporting daycare payments to poor working mothers.
And welfare and WIC and section 8 and medicare and…

But that is never what these upper middle class assholes do.
They have a baby fetish and the only thing that matters is that baby…oh and making sure the rest of us live the way they think we should.

fuck them
fuck them
fuck them

39 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:30:29pm

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The GOP, out of the boardroom and into your bedroom.

Please don’t mind the mess, Mister Speaker…

40 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:31:20pm

re: #38 webevintage

Government so small it can crawl into your fallopian tubes.

41 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:31:23pm

re: #34 theheat

They’re all about fiscal responsibility.

(And other people fucking.)

I wish!

Money is the one situation that really could pull the rug-out from all of us. Instead our elected officials think it is more important to bicker about personal behavior.

42 skidancer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:31:28pm

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

43 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:32:02pm

re: #38 webevintage

Lila Rose (my new most hated person ever) needs to step up to the plate and start adopting.
And supporting daycare payments to poor working mothers.
And welfare and WIC and section 8 and medicare and…

But that is never what these upper middle class assholes do.
They have a baby fetish and the only thing that matters is that baby…oh and making sure the rest of us live the way they think we should.

fuck them
fuck them
fuck them

Poetic, eloquent and to the point. I like your post. Seriously, just call the pig-fucking, arrogant, ignorant, smug, fat assholes what they are.

44 jaunte  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:33:15pm

re: #42 skidancer


everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development


Where do you see someone here taking that position?

45 palomino  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:33:45pm

These are the kinds of things that turn off independent women in particular. Because most of them have either had an abortion or have a family member or friend who’s had one. And most independent women are pro-choice or neutral.

Same is true to a large extent with independent men. Would be more so of course if they could get pregnant.

46 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:33:54pm

re: #41 ggt

I wish!

Money is the one situation that really could pull the rug-out from all of us. Instead our elected officials think it is more important to bicker about personal behavior.

The economic policies of the current batch of GOP legislators represent cataclysmic levels of stupid. I would be careful what you wish for.

47 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:35:07pm

re: #42 skidancer

Its a standing each individual should make at the time it applies to them, not having the option denied to them because of some one else’s religious beliefs.

48 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:35:16pm

re: #42 skidancer

is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans.

No one yet has seen any reasoned points from the GOP. The fact they are barbaric and totalitarian is the reason they’re viewed as barbaric.

And while my pet chicken cannot write a symphony, did you know chickens can identify as many as 200 individuals in a sea of chickens that look identical?

Take your dominionist shit and do a little reflection, okay?

49 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:35:18pm

re: #42 skidancer

You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans.

Because denying a woman full control over her body, her decisions, and her sexuality IS barbaric. It’s 2011. Women are human beings who deserve actual consideration for their lives, not these kinds of misogynistic bills that punish them for being fertile.

50 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:35:58pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

What gives the fetus the right to use its mothers organs without her permission?

51 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:36:24pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

It’s either your uterus, or it isn’t. That’s the problem. You can’t legislate reproductive behavior without taking away the right to reproductive self-determination. So, which is more important:
1. Your discomfort with dead fetuses.
2. Your right to reproductive self-determination.

Choose, because you only get one or the other.

52 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:36:41pm

PS, “Pay a lobbyist, its more effective” just screams smug asshole.

53 Girth  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:36:57pm

re: #29 webevintage

ARRRGGGHHH
Why won’t these motherfuckers just leave us the hell alone?

ERA anyone?

I can’t help but notice that those most opposed to the ERA claim that it is unnecessary because of the 14th amendment’s equal protection clause would also be inclined to be in favor of Justice Scalia’s originalist jurisprudence.

You know…the justice who not so long ago said that the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to women because they were obviously talking about former slaves when they wrote it?

54 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:37:00pm

re: #42 skidancer

They’re being criticized for what they want to do to women who seek abortions. It’s not so much about when life starts blah blah blah but rather forcing women to carry…

I’m wasting my time, aren’t I?

55 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:37:11pm

re: #45 palomino

Same is true to a large extent with independent men. Would be more so of course if they could get pregnant.

Shit. If men could get pregnant, we wouldn’t see bills like this. Abortion would be legal throughout the entire term, birth control would be covered by insurance, and emergency contraception would be even more widely accessible than beer nuts in a bar.

56 palomino  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:37:20pm

Pro-lifers used to try to scare women with stories of a link between breast cancer and abortion. When that was debunked, they moved on to mental issues. When that gets debunked, they’ll find something else. See, the right does care about science (at least pseudoscience) when it suits their narrow political interests. Otherwise, meh.

57 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:37:25pm

re: #54 JasonA

They’re being criticized for what they want to do to women who seek abortions. It’s not so much about when life starts blah blah blah but rather forcing women to carry…

I’m wasting my time, aren’t I?

Yup.

58 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:37:46pm
since the fetal heartbeat appears on monitors by six weeks into gestation in most cases

Wrong. It isn’t a fetus until 9 weeks of gestation. They’re going to have to send this one back for a rewrite. “Embryonic heartbeat bill”?

59 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:38:30pm

re: #42 skidancer

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this,

How dare I criticize a GOP congressmen for their view. I don’t. I criticize ANYONE who wants to legislate my reproduction. Limiting who can get birth control? Telling me that I have to bring a child into this world that is a product of a rape? Telling me that my life is less important that a collection of cells?

You are right, there is no scientific agreement on when life begins. So Congress can arbitrarily make that determination?

It boils down to “belief”. In such cases, we cannot legislate. Individuals must choose according to their beliefs.

If a person doesn’t believe abortion is right, then don’t have one. Don’t have unprotected sex or abstain.

Just don’t force your belief system on the rest of us.

60 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:38:35pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

Well I am going to take this one.

I’m sure others will play ball later.

First lets start with your straw men.

1. NO ONE on the pro choice side thinks that everyone should have abortions or that abortions are wonderful things. Rather there are numerous situations where an abortion might well be the lesser of two evils. Rape, incest and medical emergency are great examples of this.

2. NO ONE has a clear definition of when human cognition begins. However, in the first trimester, when the embryo has the brain development of a chicken, it is absolutely certain it is not about to be writing any Bach cantatas. Further, you might notice a version of this view in the Bible. What is the penalty for injuring a pregnant woman so that she miscarries? Hint it isn’t death, which it would be if God considered that murder, and as a direct consequence, even the Bible does not consider an unborn child on the same status as people who are born.

3. Exactly what are the pros of teh GOP view, of invading a woman’s body top insert their own dogmas over a deeply traumatic and personal time?

61 palomino  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:38:59pm

re: #55 Lidane

Shit. If men could get pregnant, we wouldn’t see bills like this. Abortion would be legal throughout the entire term, birth control would be covered by insurance, and emergency contraception would be even more widely accessible than beer nuts in a bar.

The fact that men make up 70%+ of the state legislators certainly plays a role here, as you suggest. Just a breakdown closer to 50-50 would probably prevent, or largely alter, much of this legislation.

62 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:39:20pm

I wonder how much support there would be for mandatory castration for men who are party to an accidental pregnancy?

We can teach those sluts to keep it in their pants.

63 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:40:00pm

Are they trying to alienate women voters as much as possible? I mean you’d think with all the election gains, the GOP may have actually tried to expand their base, instead they seem hell bent on alienating everyone. And anyone who actually thinks they’re the party of small government and individual liberties is kidding themselves.

64 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:40:06pm

re: #55 Lidane

Shit. If men could get pregnant, we wouldn’t see bills like this. Abortion would be legal throughout the entire term, birth control would be covered by insurance, and emergency contraception would be even more widely accessible than beer nuts in a bar.

If men could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament.

—-Florynce Kennedy

65 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:40:24pm

re: #42 skidancer

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

blah, blah, blah
Because no one should be able to tell me that I MUST carry a pregnancy to term.
If you cannot see how that goes against MY basic human rights then I don’t what to say.
I’ve gotten to the point where I see each and every law with any restrictions as a way to force women to be broodmares. Look at that horrible Doctor serial killer in Philly(?). If the abortion laws were not so restrictive after the 1st trimester then there would be no pregnant women interested in late abortions unless having the baby would kill them or the fetus is malformed.

I can’t even discuss it anymore without losing my mind.

I’m at an age where if I got pregnant I would be looking for an OB/GYN who would perform an abortion. Know how hard that is? I refuse to be held hostage just because I can have babies.

Forced Birth Zealots need to just mind their own beeswax and adopt the unwanted kids out there and support poor mothers and STFU.

66 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:40:36pm

re: #42 skidancer

everyone here takes the position that

BzzZZZzzT!

Start over.

67 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:41:13pm

In other news, legislation has been proposed to provide newly conceived fetuses with names and Social Security numbers. To help enforce this measure, women will now be required to be fitted with uterine monitors to inform government officials whenever a woman has a bun in the oven…

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:42:33pm

re: #65 webevintage

blah, blah, blah
Because no one should be able to tell me that I MUST carry a pregnancy to term.
If you cannot see how that goes against MY basic human rights then I don’t what to say.
I’ve gotten to the point where I see each and every law with any restrictions as a way to force women to be broodmares. Look at that horrible Doctor serial killer in Philly(?). If the abortion laws were not so restrictive after the 1st trimester then there would be no pregnant women interested in late abortions unless having the baby would kill them or the fetus is malformed.

I can’t even discuss it anymore without losing my mind.

I’m at an age where if I got pregnant I would be looking for an OB/GYN who would perform an abortion. Know how hard that is? I refuse to be held hostage just because I can have babies.

Forced Birth Zealots need to just mind their own beeswax and adopt the unwanted kids out there and support poor mothers and STFU.

Well said.

69 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:42:37pm

re: #53 Girth

You know…the justice who not so long ago said that the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to women because they were obviously talking about former slaves when they wrote it?

You are right, women have never officially been freed in this country.

70 Girth  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:42:45pm

re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder how much support there would be for mandatory castration for men who are party to an accidental pregnancy?

We can teach those sluts to keep it in their pants.

Upding for principle.

Now…

LET’S NOT DO THIS PLEASE!

71 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:42:57pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

Also if you want to provoke thought it would also help if you provoked some debate which requires you to do more than just toss down your thoughts and leave.

I repeat… even if we grant the child in the mother’s womb has the same rights as a living person… where does it gain the right to use its mother’s organs without her permission?

Because if the law of the land is that its okay to use someone’s else’s organs so long as you need them to stay alive… well you realize what that is gonna lead to don’t you?

72 skidancer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:43:02pm

my goodness! the insults keep coming.

Now I never took a position in my posting, did I?

How is this self-selecting population any different in their reactions than anyone in the right-wing?

Just an experiment that so far is going pretty much how I figured it would.

And Kragar, how does my opinion is that it is more cost effective to get together a group of people who can pay a lobbyist to generate a political result imply that I am smug, or that some emotional content can be imputed to my posterior?

To quote Pogo: We have met the enemy and he is us.

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:43:35pm

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

PS, “Pay a lobbyist, its more effective” just screams smug asshole.

What else do you expect from a GOP type?

74 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:43:37pm

re: #67 JasonA

In other news, legislation has been proposed to provide newly conceived fetuses with names and Social Security numbers. To help enforce this measure, women will now be required to be fitted with uterine monitors to inform government officials whenever a woman has a bun in the oven…

The antiabortionists would have to use the same techniques used in China to enforce their desires: monitoring women’s periods. Different aim, same totalitarian result.

75 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:43:55pm

re: #72 skidancer

Just an experiment that so far is going pretty much how I figured it would.

Ah. So you’re deliberately trolling. Got it.

76 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:43:59pm

re: #72 skidancer

my goodness! the insults keep coming.

Now I never took a position in my posting, did I?

How is this self-selecting population any different in their reactions than anyone in the right-wing?

Just an experiment that so far is going pretty much how I figured it would.

And Kragar, how does my opinion is that it is more cost effective to get together a group of people who can pay a lobbyist to generate a political result imply that I am smug, or that some emotional content can be imputed to my posterior?

To quote Pogo: We have met the enemy and he is us.

I tried to be as gracious as possible, would you kindly answer my question?

77 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:44:06pm

re: #72 skidancer

my goodness! the insults keep coming.

Now I never took a position in my posting, did I?

How is this self-selecting population any different in their reactions than anyone in the right-wing?

Just an experiment that so far is going pretty much how I figured it would.

And Kragar, how does my opinion is that it is more cost effective to get together a group of people who can pay a lobbyist to generate a political result imply that I am smug, or that some emotional content can be imputed to my posterior?

To quote Pogo: We have met the enemy and he is us.

Do you consider your elbow to be your elbow, or the state’s elbow? How about your ears?

Why the fuck is your uterus different?

78 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:44:26pm

You know, it would be one thing if these pro life Republican politicians actually gave a damn about helping poor and unwed mothers after their children are born. But if you suggest doing that, they call you a communist. And many of these same Republicans have no problem at all with capital punishment.

79 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:44:43pm

re: #72 skidancer

80 jaunte  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:45:26pm

re: #72 skidancer

You have not answered my question.

81 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:45:27pm

re: #72 skidancer

Now I never took a position in my posting, did I?

Yes, you took the position that everyone other than yourself takes the same position.

You were wrong.

82 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:45:46pm

re: #72 skidancer

my goodness! the insults keep coming.

Now I never took a position in my posting, did I?

How is this self-selecting population any different in their reactions than anyone in the right-wing?

Just an experiment that so far is going pretty much how I figured it would.

And Kragar, how does my opinion is that it is more cost effective to get together a group of people who can pay a lobbyist to generate a political result imply that I am smug, or that some emotional content can be imputed to my posterior?

To quote Pogo: We have met the enemy and he is us.

Ladies and gentleman, we have a troll looking for a martyr cookie!

You have not been insulted so much yet. As a matter of fact, you blatant straw men and illogical nonsense was shot down rather effectively.

I personally would like to know however, what you opinion on the biblical verse that applies a financial penalty - rather than an execution for murder, to one who causes a miscarriage. What is God’s word here?

83 kirkspencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:46:06pm

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote

Nah, the El Salvadorans are better educated than the teabag base. They want us to be 16th century Europe.

In general you’re right, especially as I assumed everyone would catch the reference.

El Salvador has a 100% anti-abortion law. Anyone and everyone involved in one goes to prison. Failure to report one earns a ticket to prison. There are paid informers in the medical system in case the fear and other human pressures are insufficient.

(See This NYT article. OTOH the article was criticized because of a factual error - the woman who got 30 years did so on a charge of homicide for killing a full-term infant. The counter-point to that was that a large part of the trial was convincing the jury the infant was full term, not pre-term. The truth? Rashomon rules are in play.)

84 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:46:45pm

re: #72 skidancer

And Pogo would throw you out of the swamp.

85 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:47:04pm

re: #80 jaunte

You have not answered my question.

He’s not going to. He’s trolling.

86 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:47:17pm

Look, either you are a big-government authoritarian who thinks the government should control your sexual behavior, or you think the government shouldn’t play a role in personal matters such as sex and reproduction.

Freedom, or authoritarian rule. Choose.

Which is it, skidancer?

87 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:47:27pm

re: #65 webevintage

I heart you.

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:47:28pm

re: #83 kirkspencer

In general you’re right, especially as I assumed everyone would catch the reference.

El Salvador has a 100% anti-abortion law. Anyone and everyone involved in one goes to prison. Failure to report one earns a ticket to prison. There are paid informers in the medical system in case the fear and other human pressures are insufficient.

(See This NYT article. OTOH the article was criticized because of a factual error - the woman who got 30 years did so on a charge of homicide for killing a full-term infant. The counter-point to that was that a large part of the trial was convincing the jury the infant was full term, not pre-term. The truth? Rashomon rules are in play.)

OH Damn! I did not know this. This is horrible.

89 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:47:41pm

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 21-23, 2011. N=479 Republicans and independents who lean Republican nationwide

“Next, I’m going to read a list of people who may be running in the Republican primary for president in 2012. Please excuse me while I giggle uncontrollably. After I read all the names, please tell me which candidate you would be most likely to support for the Republican nomination for president in the year 2012, or if you would support someone else.

Mike Huckabee 21%
Sarah Palin 19%
Mitt Romney 18%
Newt Gingrich 10%
Ron Paul 7%

90 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:48:08pm

re: #65 webevintage

blah, blah, blah
Because no one should be able to tell me that I MUST carry a pregnancy to term.
If you cannot see how that goes against MY basic human rights then I don’t what to say.
I’ve gotten to the point where I see each and every law with any restrictions as a way to force women to be broodmares. Look at that horrible Doctor serial killer in Philly(?). If the abortion laws were not so restrictive after the 1st trimester then there would be no pregnant women interested in late abortions unless having the baby would kill them or the fetus is malformed.

I can’t even discuss it anymore without losing my mind.

I’m at an age where if I got pregnant I would be looking for an OB/GYN who would perform an abortion. Know how hard that is? I refuse to be held hostage just because I can have babies.

Forced Birth Zealots need to just mind their own beeswax and adopt the unwanted kids out there and support poor mothers and STFU.

Seriously, you are awesome.

91 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:48:12pm

re: #86 Fozzie Bear

Look, either you are a big-government authoritarian who thinks the government should control your sexual behavior, or you think the government shouldn’t play a role in personal matters such as sex and reproduction.

Freedom, or authoritarian rule. Choose.

Which is it, skidancer?

Its not just sexual behavior. Once you establish the precedent that another can use your organs so long as he needs them to survive, say hello to forced kidney transplants at the very least….

92 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:48:53pm

I’ve also decided that I will no longer even listen to men go on about abortion and the babies and the sanctity of life (I’m looking at you Sullivan) since they cannot be forced to carry a baby to term.

Once we figure out a way to make all Forced Birther men go though a hard* 9 month pregnancy then I might start paying attention.

But for now it all sounds like blah blah blah to me.

*and I mean the 5 months of vomiting, pinched nerve in the back, hemorrhoids, swollen ankles for months (where all you can wear is fucking crocs) with the last month being COMPLETE BED REST which ends with 12 hours of hard labor topped off with a poorly down c-section.

93 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:49:07pm

re: #91 jamesfirecat

Its not just sexual behavior. Once you establish the precedent that another can use your organs so long as he needs them to survive, say hello to forced kidney transplants at the very least…

I like to keep issues narrowly framed in wingnut terms when dealing with wingnuts.

94 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:49:20pm

The only restrictions that should be put on abortion are on later-term abortions where there aren’t serious health risks. Apart from that, it’s absolutely nobody’s damned business to question a woman’s responsibility for her own body.

In that sense, I guess I’m an absolutist, because I wouldn’t put any restrictions on early abortions. There should be generous resources for women who don’t choose abortion. But the government should keep their blue-nosed Republican busybodies out of it.

95 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:49:33pm

re: #91 jamesfirecat

Its not just sexual behavior. Once you establish the precedent that another can use your organs so long as he needs them to survive, say hello to forced kidney transplants at the very least…

You’ve got 2, quit being so fucking greedy.

96 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:49:36pm

re: #87 theheat

I heart you.

I heart you too.
You guys are making me blush….

97 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:50:15pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

Wrong. It isn’t a fetus until 9 weeks of gestation. They’re going to have to send this one back for a rewrite. “Embryonic heartbeat bill”?

Shhhh. you are using that science thing on them.

AND YOU ARE A WOMAN! DON”T YOU KNOW IT IS FORBIDDEN FOR YOU TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR OWN PLUMBING!

98 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:50:57pm

re: #89 engineer dog

After I read all the names, please tell me which candidate you would be most likely to support for the Republican nomination for president in the year 2012, or if you would support someone else.

Mike Huckabee 21%
Sarah Palin 19%
Mitt Romney 18%
Newt Gingrich 10%
Ron Paul 7%

So basically, it’s going to come down to the theocrat, the half-wit half-governor, the used car salesman, the blowhard has-been, or the libertarian nutjob?

How depressing for anyone who considers themselves a Republican. That’s a truly pathetic field of candidates.

99 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:51:54pm

re: #97 LudwigVanQuixote

Shhh. you are using that science thing on them.

AND YOU ARE A WOMAN! DON”T YOU KNOW IT IS FORBIDDEN FOR YOU TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR OWN PLUMBING!

It was, de facto, law in this country until relatively recently. Such information was considered pornography.

no joke.

100 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:52:16pm

re: #99 ggt

It was, de facto, law in this country until relatively recently. Such information was considered pornography.

no joke.

I know.

101 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:52:48pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

I know.

A lot of the yoots don’t.

102 Kid Skeeter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:53:26pm

The link below is for Lisa Falkenberg’s (Houston Chronicle) column today about this absolutely pathetic proposal that more than likely WILL PASS THE STATE SENATE. Also, what Charles might not have known in that above link to said Texas proposal, is that Gov. Hairdo (R-Stone Ages)has declared this bill to be an EMERGENCY. State Sen. Dan Patrick - the founder of AM 700 KSEV in Houston - is the sponsor of this piece of shit.

[Link: www.chron.com…]

Lisa goes “Nail meet hammer” with this:

“Say no to death panels! But yes to birth panels!” the protesters in Patrick’s district must be saying.
The federal government should stay out of health care. But the state of Texas can come right on in? Yes, especially if it’s to prevent a woman from exercising her constitutionally protected right. After all, it’s for her own good, according to Section 7 of the bill: “The purpose of this Act is to protect the health and safety of women.”
Patrick’s bill has been deemed an “emergency” by the governor at a time when the state is desperately trying to plug a budget shortfall as high as $27 billion.
Is it an emergency because we’re experiencing a record surge in abortions? No. According to the nonpartisan Guttmacher Institute, the abortion rate nationwide has reached its lowest level since 1974.

Sickening, isn’t it?

103 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:53:43pm

re: #72 skidancer

my goodness! the insults keep coming.

What insults?
No one called you a moron did they?
No they just responded to your post.
Just because people disagree with you does not make you a victim.

104 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:53:44pm

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking

no, you’re not

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development.

incorrect

Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so.

have you ever thought about it for more than ten seconds? Nah, didn’t think so…

And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not.

incorrect

It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental.

i see you’ve heard rumors of the concept of “thinking”

All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

and i doubt that you know the rules of species counterpoint, which i’m sure has something to do with it, somehow…

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons.

indeed, how dare we get up on our hind legs and act like we have the right to criticize other people. how dare we!

You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans.

incorrect

105 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:53:50pm

re: #94 Charles

The only restrictions that should be put on abortion are on later-term abortions where there aren’t serious health risks. Apart from that, it’s absolutely nobody’s damned business to question a woman’s responsibility for her own body.

In that sense, I guess I’m an absolutist, because I wouldn’t put any restrictions on early abortions. There should be generous resources for women who don’t choose abortion. But the government should keep their blue-nosed Republican busybodies out of it.

I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to see somebody take this stand.

Thank you.

106 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:54:02pm

OK quick poll here.

Everyone who thinks that the GOP has lost all touch with reality, from top to bottom, and only uses religion as a vehicle to whip up the masses and distract them from the aims of the corporate masters of the GOP, please ding up.

107 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:54:08pm

Honestly, abortion is an issue I’ve never felt comfortable about. I think even when I trended more pro life personally and politically, the one thing I promised myself I’d never do was to judge a woman who got an abortion. What I do support and I am sure many here do as well is helping young and poor mothers out and encourage birth control. I’ve said before many times here on LGF that I hate the political pro life movement and I still feel that way. They want to do anything possible to make life miserable for women who make the difficult choice of getting an abortion and that’s exactly what it is. Between these new proposed laws and the Oklahoma bill that actually would give the state access to the records of women who got abortion, it makes me ill to think about these people. I guess at this point, I’m with former president Clinton in believing that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

108 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:54:22pm

re: #98 Lidane

So basically, it’s going to come down to the theocrat, the half-wit half-governor, the used car salesman, the blowhard has-been, or the libertarian nutjob?

How depressing for anyone who considers themselves a Republican. That’s a truly pathetic field of candidates.

i really don’t think huckabee will run. he’s loving the gravy train too much. i think he and sarah will be teases and keep informing their supporters that they are waiting on the go ahead from god.

109 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:55:17pm

re: #89 engineer dog

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 21-23, 2011. N=479 Republicans and independents who lean Republican nationwide

“Next, I’m going to read a list of people who may be running in the Republican primary for president in 2012. Please excuse me while I giggle uncontrollably. After I read all the names, please tell me which candidate you would be most likely to support for the Republican nomination for president in the year 2012, or if you would support someone else.

Mike Huckabee 21%
Sarah Palin 19%
Mitt Romney 18%
Newt Gingrich 10%
Ron Paul 7%

Really unimpressive bunch really. The one with the best shot I think of beating Obama would be Romney but even I think that’s pushing it.

110 kirkspencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:55:18pm

For what it’s worth, I keep watching the cloning labs for the next development; the artificial (or at least out-of-body) uterus. I am sure it is coming (there have been hints from South Korea and Scotland) but have no certainty of its timeline.

When it gets here it’ll have a massive impact on this whole argument as well as a very large number of surrounding issues.

111 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:56:31pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

Really unimpressive bunch really. The one with the best shot I think of beating Obama would be Romney but even I think that’s pushing it.

What about that colonel or whatever from Florida? Black guy, white hair.

112 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:56:47pm

And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not

it seems that i don’t have the right to practice sex that is so hot that it cries fire in a crowded theatre

not sure why…

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:56:54pm

re: #108 zora

i really don’t think huckabee will run. he’s loving the gravy train too much. i think he and sarah will be teases and keep informing their supporters that they are waiting on the go ahead from god.

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David


Hold me close, tiny dancer
Count the headlights on the highway

114 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:56:57pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

Really unimpressive bunch really. The one with the best shot I think of beating Obama would be Romney but even I think that’s pushing it.

Romney won’t get out of the primaries. The teabaggers hate him for Romneycare, and the evangelicals hate him because he’s a Mormon. If he runs, it will be 2008 all over again for him.

115 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:57:03pm

re: #110 kirkspencer

For what it’s worth, I keep watching the cloning labs for the next development; the artificial (or at least out-of-body) uterus. I am sure it is coming (there have been hints from South Korea and Scotland) but have no certainty of its timeline.

When it gets here it’ll have a massive impact on this whole argument as well as a very large number of surrounding issues.

The truth is stranger than Star Trek!

116 skidancer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:57:12pm

Would it mollify anyone if I mentioned that I am against any kind of legislation regarding abortion? Actually, I don’t care so much about people’s feelings about me but I do care that most commenters missed the point I was making.

And look at the nastiness of most of the comments. I fear for this country. There is incredible hatred out there in this community as well as the “other side”.

Someone wanted some constructive ideas? Okay, let’s start with suggesting some points for discussion:

Resolved:
1. Anti-abortion legislators are not necessarily wing-nuts. Don’t treat them like that.
2. Pro-abortion legislators are not the anti-christ. Don’t treat them that way.

117 jaunte  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:57:15pm

re: #107 HappyWarrior

They want to do anything possible to make life miserable for women who make the difficult choice of getting an abortion


Given the discrepancy in the number of people who support them politically, and the numbers of people who choose to adopt unwanted children, I think you’ve nailed the true motivation.

118 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:57:44pm

last one out please turn off the lights….
Colorado GOP Chairman Quits: ‘I’m Tired Of The Nuts’

Colorado Republican Party Chairman Dick Wadhams dropped his reelection bid on Monday, and fired some parting shots at the Tea Party and the hard-line conservatives he thinks are hurting the party’s electoral success.

“I have tired of those who are obsessed with seeing conspiracies around every corner and who have terribly misguided notions of what the role of the state party is while saying ‘uniting conservatives’ is all that is needed to win competitive races across the state,” Wadhams wrote in a memo to the Colorado Republican State Central Committee obtained by The Denver Post.

119 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:58:27pm

re: #116 skidancer

You already admitted you’re deliberately trolling, but you’re still trying to stir “debate”.

I’ll give you credit for persistence, at least.

120 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:58:33pm

re: #76 jamesfirecat

I tried to be as gracious as possible, would you kindly answer my question?

obvious troll is obvious

121 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:58:44pm

re: #116 skidancer

Would it mollify anyone if I mentioned that I am against any kind of legislation regarding abortion? Actually, I don’t care so much about people’s feelings about me but I do care that most commenters missed the point I was making.

And look at the nastiness of most of the comments. I fear for this country. There is incredible hatred out there in this community as well as the “other side”.

Someone wanted some constructive ideas? Okay, let’s start with suggesting some points for discussion:

Resolved:
1. Anti-abortion legislators are not necessarily wing-nuts. Don’t treat them like that.
2. Pro-abortion legislators are not the anti-christ. Don’t treat them that way.

Can you give me an anti-abortion argument that beasts the “Violinist Argument” that a child has no legal right to use its mothers organs without their permission?

Because if you can’t I don’t see why we should treat people who make poorly thought out arguments with respect even if they do it with good intentions….

122 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:59:04pm

re: #111 ggt

What about that colonel or whatever from Florida? Black guy, white hair.

Allan West you mean? Well there was a one term Congressman who ran for president and won once but he also wasn’t batshit. I’ll give you a hint who he is. Hating him has suddenly become popular in wingnut circles, an especially odd move since he can be considered the father of the GOP.

123 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:59:31pm

The joys of an open office, I bring up organ transplants and one guy chimes in

“If you got a hand transplant, and you masturbate, would it be gay because its another man’s hand?”

124 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:59:35pm

re: #116 skidancer

What nastiness? You lobbed a bunch of strawmen and insults of your own and were simply disproved. Do please go back to whatever fantasy land you have been in since 2007. That should not be hard. You have only managed to post 10 comments during that time.

125 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 1:59:58pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

last one out please turn off the lights…
Colorado GOP Chairman Quits: ‘I’m Tired Of The Nuts’

WOW

126 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:00:13pm

re: #121 jamesfirecat

Don’t bother. They’re just trolling this thread:

re: #72 skidancer

Just an experiment that so far is going pretty much how I figured it would.

127 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:00:36pm

I think what so many Forced Birth Zealots seem to forget is that NO ONE WANTS TO GET AN ABORTION.

Not a single woman I know who has had an abortion wanted to be in that position. We don’t think “hmmmmm, I think I’ll get knocked up so I can go get an abortion next month”.
BUT they were relived that they could legally get one.
And since most of them are over say 30ish they had theirs when it was easier and there were more Doctors willing to perform one.

In the state of Arkansas there are 2 (maybe one, Dr. Harrison died late last year) Doctors who are willing to provide what is a legal and safe part of reproductive health care to women.

128 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:00:48pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to see somebody take this stand.

Thank you.

There used to be a semi-serious ban on discussing abortion here, but I just can’t be quiet about this any more. It’s disturbing to see the regressive wing of the GOP getting so aggressive.

The aggressive regressive wing. That has a ring.

129 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:00:48pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

Allan West you mean? Well there was a one term Congressman who ran for president and won once but he also wasn’t batshit. I’ll give you a hint who he is. Hating him has suddenly become popular in wingnut circles, an especially odd move since he can be considered the father of the GOP.

No clue …

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:00:56pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

last one out please turn off the lights…
Colorado GOP Chairman Quits: ‘I’m Tired Of The Nuts’

Good for him

131 Girth  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:01:21pm

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

OK quick poll here.

Everyone who thinks that the GOP has lost all touch with reality, from top to bottom, and only uses religion as a vehicle to whip up the masses and distract them from the aims of the corporate masters of the GOP, please ding up.

I think that’s true to the extent that the party itself is nothing more than the guardians of corporate interests. But…the religious right has inserted itself into the party proper. They are not merely tools to be whipped up when the party needs money or votes like they have been in the past. They may not be in the driver’s seat, but they have a hand on the wheel.

132 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:01:55pm

A Texas Senate committee will begin considering an anti-child hunger measure this week that, if passed, would be one of the strongest in the nation. The bill mandates that republican legislators be shown an video of poor children at least two hours before a vote.

Econimists also would be required to explain the grainy image, including a description of the child’s dimensions and, if applicable, the presence of a place to sleep and unpaid heating bills. If audible, the sound of the child asking why it’s so hard for daddy and mommy to buy food for him would have to be played for the legislator as well.

Supporters of the bill hope the extra steps persuade more legislators to stop whining about the problems of their wealthy donors for more than half a second fercrissakes

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:02:13pm

re: #126 Lidane

Don’t bother. They’re just trolling this thread:

re: #72 skidancer

I always wonder why it’s worth it to guys like this to troll, seems like a waste of their time, but these people always seem to have plenty of time! Me, I work for a living

134 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:02:16pm

Oh, I get it now, someone was concerned.

135 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:02:36pm

re: #130 WindUpBird

Good for him

Yeah, If more people took a stand the GOP wouldn’t have such a serious problem with paranoid conspiracies and misguided ideas.

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:02:50pm

re: #132 engineer dog

ahahahaha awesome

137 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:03:19pm

re: #129 ggt

No clue …

Lincoln. Lincoln had been a Congressman during the Mexican American War and had been a vocal opponent of it. He got voted out. Ran unsuccessfully for Senate against Stephen Douglas and debated him in the famous Lincoln-Douglas Debates.

138 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:03:23pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Yeah, If more people took a stand the GOP wouldn’t have such a serious problem with paranoid conspiracies and misguided ideas.

Unfortunately, they are probably glad to be rid of him. Now they can get a leader who is on their team.

139 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:03:27pm

re: #123 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The joys of an open office, I bring up organ transplants and one guy chimes in

“If you got a hand transplant, and you masturbate, would it be gay because its another man’s hand?”

OK there can be only one response to that:

140 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:04:00pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

last one out please turn off the lights…
Colorado GOP Chairman Quits: ‘I’m Tired Of The Nuts’

But don’t you see? If all these RINO state party chairmen quit, then a “real conservative” can come in and help bring down Obama.

/wingnut

141 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:04:09pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Lincoln. Lincoln had been a Congressman during the Mexican American War and had been a vocal opponent of it. He got voted out. Ran unsuccessfully for Senate against Stephen Douglas and debated him in the famous Lincoln-Douglas Debates.

Oh, I thought you were talking about a current politician. Sorry, little grey-cells weren’t paying attention… .

142 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:04:24pm

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

What nastiness?

I think I might have been nasty, but you know what?
I don’t care about the little troll’s feelings.

143 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:04:54pm

re: #128 Charles

There used to be a semi-serious ban on discussing abortion here, but I just can’t be quiet about this any more. It’s disturbing to see the regressive wing of the GOP getting so aggressive.

The aggressive regressive wing. That has a ring.

Well said. Fight the good fight. With you 100%.

144 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:04:57pm

re: #111 ggt

What about that colonel or whatever from Florida? Black guy, white hair.

there is this guy. herman cain. he’s black and the tea party likes him.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The Dark Horse
Herman Cain, the pizza magnate who would be president—the first in a series of Slate looks at the 2012 candidates.

[Link: www.slate.com…]

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:05:32pm

re: #142 webevintage

I think I might have been nasty, but you know what?
I don’t care about the little troll’s feelings.

they’re sexy when they’re at negative karma

146 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:06:07pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

You’re so far off base that it hurts
First, there are plenty of laws that regulate and make certain forms of sex illegal: Children, Incest, Prostitution, Bestiality, Adultry, Fornication, sodomy are all illegal or regulated in various parts of the United States. There is no legal or constitutional ‘right’ sexual congress despite your best efforts to claim otherwise. Here’s the first thing, claiming something a right on par with free speech isn’t going to work if that’s not the case.

Second, when ‘life’ begins is something that can be argued from now until the end of time and I’m sure people won’t come to an agreement on a definition. However, you’re ignoring the rights of the woman. I’d be more open to other alternatives if there was a way to remove the fetus from a woman and move it to someone else. If that ever becomes a safe and viable option, then I’d be all for doing that in place of abortion, assuming that privacy and confidentiality laws are updated.

In addition, I’d be open to the idea that a late term fetus that would be viable outside the womb and would not endanger the mother shouldn’t be aborted and instead put into adoption/foster. But again, you have to update confidentiality laws, and someone has to pay for the raising of the unwanted children. As it stands now, welfare and foster services are being cut by the Republicans, which is why they’re being tarred with the phrase, protecting children from conception to birth.

But for you to argue that republican views are reasoned makes no sense. I mean, literally, no sense at all. Look at the article above, and look at the arguments and bills and laws being made and passed. They’re all about the degradation and stigmatization of women who have an unwanted pregnancy. I’ve had to listen to a Republican state congressmen in Georgia claim that no woman can get pregnant from rape, therefore all women who get pregnant weren’t raped (arguing against a rape exception for abortion). I’d love to have that ‘gentleman’ explain to some 11 year old girl that she must have wanted her daddy to fuck her, that’s why she’s pregnant now, after all it couldn’t be rape.

It’s that type of foul woman hating rhetoric that gets people angry enough to spit nails. And when you come in claiming that there are reasoned arguments against abortion, and you don’t even bother to come up with a single example, yeah, i think you’re honestly full of shit.

147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:06:18pm

re: #142 webevintage

I think I might have been nasty, but you know what?
I don’t care about the little troll’s feelings.

I was being good, I was going to at least wait to see if he would get into a biblical discourse with me, before I started pointing out his lower intelligence and the fact that he really shouldn’t comment on these matters, because in addition to not being a woman, he never even gets laid.

148 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:06:32pm

re: #144 zora

there is this guy. herman cain. he’s black and the tea party likes him.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The Dark Horse
Herman Cain, the pizza magnate who would be president—the first in a series of Slate looks at the 2012 candidates.

[Link: www.slate.com…]

I think Happy Warrior was right. I’m thinking of Allan West. He is big on defense, iirc.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:06:47pm

re: #144 zora

there is this guy. herman cain. he’s black and the tea party likes him.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The Dark Horse
Herman Cain, the pizza magnate who would be president—the first in a series of Slate looks at the 2012 candidates.

[Link: www.slate.com…]

He has a radio show! All these politicians think they’re broadcasters

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:07:06pm

re: #146 bloodstar

the guy’s a troll, don’t bother :P

151 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:07:15pm

Honestly if the GOP had any brains they’d be trying to steal an issue or two from the Dems. If they were smart, they’d take the limited government mantra literally and start embracing things like gay marriage, seperation of church and state, and lessening the drug war but nope they remain cultural warriors and it’s because they have people like Jim DeMint in their party who are kingmakers who think you have to be a social reactionary in order to be fiscally conservative which is nonsense.

152 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:07:22pm

re: #142 webevintage

I think I might have been nasty, but you know what?
I don’t care about the little troll’s feelings.

What do you mean, I hurt your feelings?
I didnt know you had any feelings.
What do you mean, I aint kind?
Im just not your kind.

153 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:07:26pm

re: #139 LudwigVanQuixote

OK let’s see if this one works.

154 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:07:33pm

re: #146 bloodstar

Great post, but check post #72. They admit they’re just trolling this thread. It’s all just an “experiment”, don’tcha know.

155 sagehen  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:08:03pm

re: #18 leftynyc

My sentiments exactly. What have the repubicans done with their “super duper majority mandate” other than try and screw over half the population? Where are the JOBS they were promising? The teabaggers make me want to vomit.

If half the workforce is either pregnant or on maternity leave, that opens up a lot of jobs.

156 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:08:29pm

CURSES!

157 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:08:41pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Honestly if the GOP had any brains they’d be trying to steal an issue or two from the Dems. If they were smart, they’d take the limited government mantra literally and start embracing things like gay marriage, seperation of church and state, and lessening the drug war but nope they remain cultural warriors and it’s because they have people like Jim DeMint in their party who are kingmakers who think you have to be a social reactionary in order to be fiscally conservative which is nonsense.

They are not trying to to be anything. They are trying to prepare us for the 2nd Coming. I guess they think they’ll earn extra badges for it.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:08:53pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Honestly if the GOP had any brains they’d be trying to steal an issue or two from the Dems. If they were smart, they’d take the limited government mantra literally and start embracing things like gay marriage, seperation of church and state, and lessening the drug war but nope they remain cultural warriors and it’s because they have people like Jim DeMint in their party who are kingmakers who think you have to be a social reactionary in order to be fiscally conservative which is nonsense.

they need for the tea party to fail before any of that happens

tea party = social conservatives. same people. Nativists and angry know-nothing churchy types are not going to embrace anything except that which elevates their tribe of whiteys

159 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:09:25pm

re: #146 bloodstar

I’ve had to listen to a Republican state congressmen in Georgia claim that no woman can get pregnant from rape, therefore all women who get pregnant weren’t raped (arguing against a rape exception for abortion). I’d love to have that ‘gentleman’ explain to some 11 year old girl that she must have wanted her daddy to fuck her, that’s why she’s pregnant now, after all it couldn’t be rape.

It’s that type of foul woman hating rhetoric that gets people angry enough to spit nails. And when you come in claiming that there are reasoned arguments against abortion, and you don’t even bother to come up with a single example, yeah, i think you’re honestly full of shit.

I want to have your babies…that’s how awesome your post is.

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:09:54pm

re: #157 ggt

They are not trying to to be anything. They are trying to prepare us for the 2nd Coming. I guess they think they’ll earn extra badges for it.

PROHECY!

Sometimes I wake up and I think right before I get out of bed: “huh huh elected officials in America that believe in prophecy. Lol.” And then I make breakfast.

161 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:10:58pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

I have tired of those who are obsessed with seeing conspiracies around every corner…

I’m labeling that the “Beck Effect”.

162 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:11:10pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

they need for the tea party to fail before any of that happens

tea party = social conservatives. same people. Nativists and angry know-nothing churchy types are not going to embrace anything except that which elevates their tribe of whiteys

Oh I know what the TPers are. I just think the disconnect between their rhetoric and reality is so funny. They talk about how they’re for individual rights and small government yet are implementing policies like this amongst other things.

163 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:12:09pm

re: #116 skidancer

this is the second trool that’s come in here insisting that the discussion be all about how its feelings have been hurt

164 William of Orange  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:12:49pm

This really deserves a seperate topic!!!
Excellent article about the sect (or scam) of Scientology.

165 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:13:56pm
166 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:14:44pm

Have you notice how conspiracy theories nowadays don’t seem as plausible or coherent as the conspiracy theories from previous generations?

That makes me suspicious.

167 kirkspencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:14:59pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

yanowhat? I’m going to take on two points in the middle of the bull you kicked out here. The section follows:

Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not.

First point: Arguing when life begins is a false argument. The argument is when does the life become a person. See, technically the sperm and the egg are both alive. Now the problem with determining when a zygote/fetus becomes a person is trickier. In the end it’s a rashomon rule - it depends on your point of view. Add to this… no, that gets to the second point.

Second point: that this is the ‘right of sexual congress’. No. It. Is. Not. Oh, I have no doubt that’s what some people want it to move to — they’ve hated Griswold since it was decided. But the issue is not whether people can have sex. The issue is whether a person has the right to make a final decision in regard to their own organs and their contents UNTIL SUCH POINT as the contents can be sustained outside the organs.

In the end I consider that emphasized point to be the critical and perhaps the sole important criteria. Until the creature can exist outside its host it is a parasite and the host can fatally reject it. Once it can live and develop outside the host (even though that requires assistance) it becomes murder to kill it instead of evicting it. There is gray and there are complicating issues — cutting edge medicine can keep it alive at a surprisingly early point, but cutting edge medicine is not typically available to most people. Nonetheless, for me that is the basic line.

168 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:15:00pm

This is actually one of the things that makes universal health-care really scary for me.

I’m still trying to wrap my brain around it. I have a deep distrust of any large organization, corporation, church or government.

While I truly understand the need for health-care reform, the idea of anyone in Washington having control of any aspect of terrifies me.

cue the paranoid cold war nightmare scene … . . .

169 Ming  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:15:06pm

I totally sympathize with people who are opposed to abortion. I’m a pesca-vegetarian, and the taking of any life is abhorrent to me. I used to be enthusiastically pro-choice, but these days, I think I would want to restrict abortions in cases when the pregnancy was obviously pretty darn close to 8 or 9 months. What I don’t understand is why many people, apparently mostly Republicans, are so vehemently opposed to all abortion, and at the same time are not enthusiastically promoting CONTRACEPTION. Because of the stakes involved, this goes beyond logical incoherence, and all the way to severe immorality. It also makes no sense that these Republicans also say they want to reduce government spending. It really should be very clear to all that if the government goes back into the business of restricting all abortions, this will cost money.

170 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:16:21pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

the guy’s a troll, don’t bother :P

re: #154 Lidane

Great post, but check post #72. They admit they’re just trolling this thread. It’s all just an “experiment”, don’tcha know.

Fuckin’ Trolls! How do they work? :)

171 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:16:55pm

Today’s been just one of those days, where I’m not sure which to be more upset about.

First, we had Glenn Beck on his radio show today railing against the evils of the following: community organizing, trade unionists (equating them with Marx, Lenin and international communism), “the outcasts of society”, “architects of a new world order”, all with the backing of Soros and similar financiers - and goes on to say that we’re on the path of the 1930s. Yeah, Glenn. The only thing missing from your screed today was an exaltation of racial identity/purity.

Now we have this thread, which is a continuation of the half dozen or so stories we’ve had regarding stripping of women’s reproductive freedom. America’s Talibangelicals honestly have decided that “A Handmaids Tale” was designed as a guidebook instead of as a cautionary story.

172 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:16:55pm

re: #94 Charles

The only restrictions that should be put on abortion are on later-term abortions where there aren’t serious health risks. Apart from that, it’s absolutely nobody’s damned business to question a woman’s responsibility for her own body.

In that sense, I guess I’m an absolutist, because I wouldn’t put any restrictions on early abortions. There should be generous resources for women who don’t choose abortion. But the government should keep their blue-nosed Republican busybodies out of it.

Sadly, that is the piece that’s missing; the generous and well-publicized resources for women who don’t choose abortion.

Where services are available, they are insufficient in many cases; and very often there is little to no publicizing of their availability and so people don’t know who to contact.

The best of these alternate services (at least in my area, and perhaps others as well) are provided by Catholic Charities. Their counseling and birth or adoption prep services for expectant moms are free of charge; they work with a state’s local Dept of Social Services to assist with governmental services that are available; and they operate on a shoestring budget, not much leftover for advertising.

173 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:17:21pm

re: #162 HappyWarrior

Oh I know what the TPers are. I just think the disconnect between their rhetoric and reality is so funny. They talk about how they’re for individual rights and small government yet are implementing policies like this amongst other things.

Well, they’re dumb people, so disconnects are easy to come by. Like any child, fill of contradictions and bad reasoning. because they’re kids, they’re still figuring life out

Kinda like these guys, pining for a “similer time” because they’re being left behind, too dumb to re: #170 bloodstar

re: #154 Lidane

Fuckin’ Trolls! How do they work? :)

you made a good post! Make it an LGF page, that’s what I do with my long posts that are thought out, I make ‘em pages

174 jaunte  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:17:31pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you notice how conspiracy theories nowadays don’t seem as plausible or coherent as the conspiracy theories from previous generations?

That makes me suspicious.

Kids who grew up after the glory days of Pac-man just aren’t as interested in connecting the dots.

175 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:17:58pm

3-7 inches of snow coming to our area tonight (we will probably get a dusting in the end)…hubby said Wally World is nuts.

Understand that this snow will be on the ground for probably just Wed and Thursday and then the temps will be back into the 40’s.

Humanz iz nuts ceiling cat sez…..

176 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:18:19pm

re: #164 William of Orange

This really deserves a seperate topic!!!
Excellent article about the sect (or scam) of Scientology.

$cientology is about as twisted, evil and stupid as it gets.

177 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:18:52pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you notice how conspiracy theories nowadays don’t seem as plausible or coherent as the conspiracy theories from previous generations?

That makes me suspicious.

we just don’t try hard enough….
“why back in my day son our tinfoil hats were 3 feet tall and…..”

178 Kid Skeeter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:19:18pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Honestly if the GOP had any brains they’d be trying to steal an issue or two from the Dems. If they were smart, they’d take the limited government mantra literally and start embracing things like gay marriage, seperation of church and state, and lessening the drug war but nope they remain cultural warriors and it’s because they have people like Jim DeMint in their party who are kingmakers who think you have to be a social reactionary in order to be fiscally conservative which is nonsense.

Agree 100%, but you forgot one itsy bitsy thing. How about not starting wars in other countries where our asses don’t belong?

179 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:19:27pm

re: #171 RadicalModerate

Oops. Forgot to post the link to the audio of Beck’s insanity

180 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:19:28pm

re: #174 jaunte

Kids who grew up after the glory days of Pac-man just aren’t as interested in connecting the dots.

We eats them now…

181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:20:00pm

re: #171 RadicalModerate

Today’s been just one of those days, where I’m not sure which to be more upset about.

First, we had Glenn Beck on his radio show today railing against the evils of the following: community organizing, trade unionists (equating them with Marx, Lenin and international communism), “the outcasts of society”, “architects of a new world order”, all with the backing of Soros and similar financiers - and goes on to say that we’re on the path of the 1930s. Yeah, Glenn. The only thing missing from your screed today was an exaltation of racial identity/purity.

Now we have this thread, which is a continuation of the half dozen or so stories we’ve had regarding stripping of women’s reproductive freedom. America’s Talibangelicals honestly have decided that “A Handmaids Tale” was designed as a guidebook instead of as a cautionary story.

Wait, workers organizing in unions is Marxist? And need to be fought?

OK REALLY FOR HOW FUCKING LONG ARE PEOPLE GOING TO FIGHT ME ABOUT THIS ASSHOLE BEING AN ACTUAL FUCKING NAZI?!?!

182 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:20:58pm

Bill O’Reilly Teaches Kids About Science

[Link: www.cracked.com…]

183 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:21:04pm

re: #169 Ming

I totally sympathize with people who are opposed to abortion. I’m a pesca-vegetarian, and the taking of any life is abhorrent to me. I used to be enthusiastically pro-choice, but these days, I think I would want to restrict abortions in cases when the pregnancy was obviously pretty darn close to 8 or 9 months. What I don’t understand is why many people, apparently mostly Republicans, are so vehemently opposed to all abortion, and at the same time are not enthusiastically promoting CONTRACEPTION. Because of the stakes involved, this goes beyond logical incoherence, and all the way to severe immorality. It also makes no sense that these Republicans also say they want to reduce government spending. It really should be very clear to all that if the government goes back into the business of restricting all abortions, this will cost money.

Because it involves talking about sex to their children.

They are too squeamish.

Honestly, I’ve come to that conclusion.

There is, technically, little reason for abortion in a society that as advanced contraception science and a universal public education. It’s parents that drop the ball when they make the topic taboo by their silence.

184 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:21:45pm

re: #170 bloodstar

re: #154 Lidane

Fuckin’ Trolls! How do they work? :)

First, mix the special sauce.

2nd, light the grill … .

185 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:22:10pm
you made a good post! Make it an LGF page, that’s what I do with my long posts that are thought out, I make ‘em pages

Actually, I write in my own blog, and if I write something that is long and all that (and actually makes sense), I end up cleaning it up and cross posting it over there.

re: #159 webevintage

I want to have your babies…that’s how awesome your post is.

*BLUSH*

186 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:22:47pm

re: #171 RadicalModerate

“Talibangelicals”

Good contraction!

187 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:23:17pm

re: #42 skidancer

I’m going to write a comment that will hopefully be thought provoking rather than flame provoking, but I’m probably an incurable optimist. Here goes:

Interesting that everyone here takes the position that the life of the fetus has no value at any point in its earlier development. Has anyone valid scientific data to define the point of “life”. Nah, didn’t think so. And of course everyone (so far) assumes that the right of sexual congress is absolute, in contradistinction to free speech, which is not. It’s an interesting question, is it not, which of the two rights is more fundamental. All animals have sex, but not all animals can produce Shakespeare’s plays, or, to play with the concept, Bach’s music.

How dare anyone criticize these GOP congressmen for their view on this, which, although I may not agree with, is a reasoned point of view with pros and cons. You treat anyone who is against abortion like barbaric hooligans. Some act like it, but most aren’t.

Well that’s what free elections are all about.

You have an opinion - vote! Or pay a lobbyist, which is probably more effective.

Peace,
David

To put it bluntly, they are fucking barbarians!

Freedom is about freedom to choose and these assholes are taking away that freedom.

Your freedom is the choice not to get an abortion because you believe life begins at conception. Others believe differently and there is no clear answer save in theology, and not even then.

To force your beliefs on others is to take away their freedom. That makes you, and the people behind this bill, barbarians.

If you don’t like that you can do something with it anatomically impossible.

188 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:23:57pm

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

OK quick poll here.

Everyone who thinks that the GOP has lost all touch with reality, from top to bottom, and only uses religion as a vehicle to whip up the masses and distract them from the aims of the corporate masters of the GOP, please ding up.

And it makes me sick, because America needs more than one rational, effective national political party to stave off institutional ossification. Right now, we effectively have only a choice between the Democratic Party (which is far from perfect) and the misogynist, bigoted, isolationist, corporatist, Bircher GOP and I thinks it sucks hard…and I say this as someone who’s still a registered Republican.

Arrrrgggghhhh….

189 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:25:45pm

re: #159 webevintage

I want to have your babies…that’s how awesome your post is.

It was an excellent post, but I am so jealous. I mean I have been hating on the GOP fat heads for longer than him and with more spiffy venom. Some guys get all the babes…

????

190 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:25:48pm

re: #130 WindUpBird

Good for him

If he didn’t leave, the ascending wingnuts would’ve pushed him out…very publicly.

191 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:26:01pm

You can thank Reagan for the marriage of the Republican Party with the religious Right. If people wanna know why I am not high on Reagan, that’s a big reason why. All the religious right does is demonize people who are not like them. Just look at what Bryan Fischer says. His latest gem and it’s right here on LGF is how the Native Americans were never moral people and in effect deserved what happened to them.

192 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:26:22pm

re: #172 reine.de.tout

Sadly, that is the piece that’s missing; the generous and well-publicized resources for women who don’t choose abortion.

Where services are available, they are insufficient in many cases; and very often there is little to no publicizing of their availability and so people don’t know who to contact.

The best of these alternate services (at least in my area, and perhaps others as well) are provided by Catholic Charities. Their counseling and birth or adoption prep services for expectant moms are free of charge; they work with a state’s local Dept of Social Services to assist with governmental services that are available; and they operate on a shoestring budget, not much leftover for advertising.

Honestly, I’d like to see some publicizing about why not to get pregnant unless you are prepared to raise or give-up the child. We can’t afford all services as it is. I’ve ranted about this before, but there are sooo many women who think nothing of getting their milk, bread, eggs etc with tax-payer money. I don’t want any child to need, but we can’t continue this trend. Most of these women are working full-time and still need our help.

193 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:26:42pm

Ohh and 189 was supposed to have sarc tags…

194 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:27:17pm

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote


Everyone who thinks that the GOP has lost all touch with reality, from top to bottom, and only uses religion as a vehicle to whip up the masses and distract them from the aims of the corporate masters of the GOP, please ding up.

The problem is with the word “only”.

Oh, the likes of John McCain and Boehner The Orange use religion as you describe.

But a whole lot, like… millions, of the followers are true believers in theocratic rule. That includes quite a few middle-level politicians in office.

They really do believe that stuff, which is why they are so adamant about it.

195 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:27:35pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

You can thank Reagan for the marriage of the Republican Party with the religious Right. If people wanna know why I am not high on Reagan, that’s a big reason why. All the religious right does is demonize people who are not like them. Just look at what Bryan Fischer says. His latest gem and it’s right here on LGF is how the Native Americans were never moral people and in effect deserved what happened to them.

Justifying genocide by perverting God. Lovely bunch of scum really.

196 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:27:57pm

re: #194 freetoken

The problem is with the word “only”.

Oh, the likes of John McCain and Boehner The Orange use religion as you describe.

But a whole lot, like… millions, of the followers are true believers in theocratic rule. That includes quite a few middle-level politicians in office.

They really do believe that stuff, which is why they are so adamant about it.

Fair enough

197 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:28:02pm

re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and 189 was supposed to have sarc tags…

Sure, you say that now.

198 JEA62  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:28:14pm

I THOUGHT the GOP, who spent the last year harping about budgets needing to be cut and jobs needing to be created, would cut budgets and create jobs.

Silly me.

They’re doing the same things they’ve done every time they get in power - work to bring about their stupid conservative social agenda to appease their religious conservative base and nobody else.

199 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:28:48pm

re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and 189 was supposed to have sarc tags…

No need to be sarcastic if you are referring to me as a “babe”….

and with that folks I’m out of here for a bit.

200 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:29:46pm

re: #195 LudwigVanQuixote

Justifying genocide by perverting God. Lovely bunch of scum really.

Yep, he’s an asshole isn’t he? THis is the same guy who said that Salvatore Giacana’s Medal of Honor was “feminized” because the sergeant didn’t kill anyone but rather saved people. I have little doubt that if political Antisemitism were more mainstream, that Mr. Fischer would be engaging in good old fashion antisemitism.

201 Bulworth  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:29:48pm

Is this more of that “less government” I keep hearing about? Freedom!!

202 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:31:06pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

Yep, he’s an asshole isn’t he? THis is the same guy who said that Salvatore Giacana’s Medal of Honor was “feminized” because the sergeant didn’t kill anyone but rather saved people. I have little doubt that if political Antisemitism were more mainstream, that Mr. Fischer would be engaging in good old fashion antisemitism.

I remember. I would seeing him explain his views to either a room of marines or a room of Sioux as appropriate.

203 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:31:06pm

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait, workers organizing in unions is Marxist? And need to be fought?

Yep. He named the AFL-CIO, SEIU, and NEA specifically - saying that because they recently removed language from their charters banning association with members of the Communist Party that they now are all part of a grand Marxist conspiracy. Never mind the fact that there haven’t been any communists of influence in the US for over seventy years.

204 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:32:22pm

re: #203 RadicalModerate

Yep. He named the AFL-CIO, SEIU, and NEA specifically - saying that because they recently removed language from their charters banning association with members of the Communist Party that they now are all part of a grand Marxist conspiracy. Never mind the fact that there haven’t been any communists of influence in the US for over seventy years.

I know he did. I’m pointing out that the MAIN original thrust of the Nazi party was anti-union and anti communist as a sop to their corporate masters. Then the Krupps and the like lost control of the monster they created.

205 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:32:38pm

re: #194 freetoken

The problem is with the word “only”.

Oh, the likes of John McCain and Boehner The Orange use religion as you describe.

But a whole lot, like… millions, of the followers are true believers in theocratic rule. That includes quite a few middle-level politicians in office.

They really do believe that stuff, which is why they are so adamant about it.

can’t have suckers without hustlers to con ‘em & vice versa

206 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:34:52pm

re: #203 RadicalModerate

Yep. He named the AFL-CIO, SEIU, and NEA specifically - saying that because they recently removed language from their charters banning association with members of the Communist Party that they now are all part of a grand Marxist conspiracy. Never mind the fact that there haven’t been any communists of influence in the US for over seventy years.

The funny thing to me as someone who has studied Communism and its history is that Crazy Glenn acts like it’s all one monolithic group. The man has obviously never heard of the Sino-Soviet split or the Soviet-Albanian or the Soviet-Yugoslav for that matter too.

207 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:35:20pm

Since you’re here LVQ, and we’re talking about the GOP… you’ll love this:

Posey, Adams to NASA: More rockets, and forget about climate change

In a move sure to please their conservative bases and ardent rocket-building constituents, three Republican members of Congress – Rep. Bill Posey of Rockledge, Sandy Adams of Orlando and Rob Bishop of Utah — called on their fellow lawmakers today to “reprioritize” NASA for human spaceflight missions, not global warming.

The move takes aim at the Obama administration’s call last year for an increase in NASA’s science funding, especially Earth Science. But with NASA’s budget expect to remain flat next year at its 2010 level of $18.7 billion, Posey, Adams and Bishop, whose Utah district includes solid-rocket manufacturer Alliant Techsystems Inc., or ATK, said that House leaders needed to protect NASA’s core mission of sending humans into space.

Posey and Adams sent a letter sent to House Appropriations Committee Chairman Harold Rogers, R-Ky., and Commerce, Justice, and Science Subcommittee Chairman Frank Wolf R-Va.), saying that while they recognize there is a need for budget cuts, “it will be critical for the Appropriations Committee to produce legislation that is precise in its budget cuts. For years, Presidents and Congress have charged NASA with completing tasks that fall outside the scope of NASA’s primary mission.”

“NASA’s primary purpose is human space exploration and directing NASA funds to study global warming undermines our ability to maintain our competitive edge in human space flight, ” Posey said in a joint press release Tuesday.

Adams accused the administration of being “unable or unwilling to outline a plan or stick to their original promises” on space exploration. “That is why I am encouraging Chairmen Rogers and Wolf to reduce funding for climate change research, which undercuts one of NASA’s primary and most important objectives of human spaceflight,” she said.

Bishop agreed. “It is counter-intuitive to direct millions of dollars to NASA for duplicative climate change programs and at the same time cancel its manned space flight program- the purpose for which the agency was originally created,” said Bishop in a press release issued on Tuesday.

Though the administration has not canceled NASA human spaceflight franchise, many conservative space supporters accuse the White House of doing so because last year it scrapped — with the approval of Congress — the agency’s over-budget Constellation moon program.

Those GOP reps don’t seem to understand that the Earth is a planet, and it is the only one we can study close up 24/7/365.

And NASA studies planets.

NASA’s expenditures on climate studies wouldn’t pay but a most trivial portion of the costs of developing a new manned space-flight capability.

208 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:36:39pm

re: #207 freetoken

Since you’re here LVQ, and we’re talking about the GOP… you’ll love this:

Posey, Adams to NASA: More rockets, and forget about climate change

Those GOP reps don’t seem to understand that the Earth is a planet, and it is the only one we can study close up 24/7/365.

And NASA studies planets.

NASA’s expenditures on climate studies wouldn’t pay but a most trivial portion of the costs of developing a new manned space-flight capability.

Yes I know.

209 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:36:43pm

Holy crap totally off topic but I have to vent.

I’ve been looking into getting a couple of pigs to help with some pasture regeneration. Take advantage of their natural desire to dig and destroy. Little helper plows.
I’m looking at breeds as I don’t want big ones. I also can’t see myself eating these ones either. I find that there are a lot of pot belly pigs in rescues. Lots from dumbbumbs that get pigs as pets and don’t realize what they’re getting into. They don’t stay small and cute forever. Hmm I though that would be a good thing. Could rescue a couple, give them a nice pig life and they’d help me with what I need. Perfect!

So I call up one place and ask about it. Tell them what I’m looking for and why and ask if they have any that were outdoor rather then indoor. Woman tells me that yes they have ones that live outdoors but it doesn’t sound like I’m the type of home they’d be looking for. “Um why I ask?”

She says, “Well you said they’d be living in a barn.”

Me a little confused. “Well yes it’s a small barn, perfect for a pigs this size.”

“Well yes but these pigs aren’t used to living in a barn.”

“Uh what did they live in then?”

“Small pig houses, made for them and yard made for them.”

Me thinking this woman is on crack, “Um a barn is a pig house and they would have a whole field fenced field to run around in. ”

“No it’s not really. These pigs are pets. Pigs in barns aren’t pets and they need there own special pig yard. I’m also not sure about wanting them to do that in your garden…. ”

“Okee” I thought, “This is not going to go anywhere constructive. Next!”


So I call another rescue sanctuary place.

“Hi, I’m looking at your website and am looking….” go through the explanation.

“Oh great,” she says, “First I have a couple of questions to see if you meet the criteria. Are you vegetarian?”

What a weird question… but oh I can see where this going. No matter I shall push on. “No, but I have no plans to eat or breed them. I just…”

“I’m sorry but that’s one of our criteria… we…”

Me interrupting, “May I ask why?”

“It’s one of the pledges we make to get funding…blah blah.” Goes into a long explanation and I learn all about how there is essentially a vegan/veggie movement to save pigs and other farm animals and put them in sanctuaries etc etc etc.

By this time time I was pretty choked and a bit flabbergasted. “Well I guess that’s too bad for the pigs then. They would have a great home here. Oh and good luck in finding enough vegan farmers to take all your pigs. ”


Unreal. Really unreal.

210 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:37:01pm

re: #207 freetoken

Since you’re here LVQ, and we’re talking about the GOP… you’ll love this:

Posey, Adams to NASA: More rockets, and forget about climate change


Those GOP reps don’t seem to understand that the Earth is a planet, and it is the only one we can study close up 24/7/365.

And NASA studies planets.

NASA’s expenditures on climate studies wouldn’t pay but a most trivial portion of the costs of developing a new manned space-flight capability.

Maybe the reps *have* read it and want the spaceflight capacity developed ASAP so that their chosen e-lite can get off the merry-go-round in time.

211 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:37:10pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

You can thank Reagan for the marriage of the Republican Party with the religious Right. If people wanna know why I am not high on Reagan, that’s a big reason why. All the religious right does is demonize people who are not like them. Just look at what Bryan Fischer says. His latest gem and it’s right here on LGF is how the Native Americans were never moral people and in effect deserved what happened to them.

For all of Reagan’s faults, we could have done worse for POTUS (Anderson or the reelection of Carter in 1980 or Mondale in 1984…*shudder*). However, I agree that his inclusion of the RR into the GOP “big tent” was a huge mistake…and we’re reaping the whirlwind for it now.

212 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:38:12pm

re: #192 ggt

Honestly, I’d like to see some publicizing about why not to get pregnant unless you are prepared to raise or give-up the child. We can’t afford all services as it is. I’ve ranted about this before, but there are sooo many women who think nothing of getting their milk, bread, eggs etc with tax-payer money. I don’t want any child to need, but we can’t continue this trend. Most of these women are working full-time and still need our help.

As far as I can tell, that item is fairly well-publicized, as is information about teen pregnancy. But … nature takes its course, and things happen.

I don’t want to have to decide what’s the right thing to do for anyone.
I am vigorously anti-abortion, the procedure.

But the fact is that there will be unplanned pregnancies, and at least some of them will be unwanted and at least some of those women will seek to have an abortion. If they do, then I think they should be able to receive the safest care possible. But frankly, I spend my time/energy/money trying to talk up alternatives to abortion.

213 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:38:28pm

Bryan Fischer’s puzzler is twitching because Palin did not come across as a blatant homophobe

Ms. Palin told David Brody of CBN that having representatives of the deviancy cabal sitting at the table and helping to choose speakers is just fine. She said it’s an example of “conservatives…reach(ing) out to others” and that GOProud’s participation is needed to “provide good information and balance, and…allow for healthy debate.”

But unfortunately, GOProud isn’t being invited to participate in a panel discussion over whether homosexual behavior is benign or a menace to human and social health. That would be one thing. They (GOProuders) instead are official participants, and thus granted license by organizers to use CPAC as a venue to promote their dangerous sexual agenda.

Ms. Palin’s statement on the subject was a bit meandering but left no doubt that she has no reservations about advocates of sexual abnormality being given a prominent place at a so-called conservative event.

Perhaps Ms. Palin doesn’t understand GOProud’s role at CPAC. If so, she can walk these comments back when she finds out. Of greater concern is that she may well understand GOProud’s agenda, and its mission of destroying the institution of marriage through redefinition, and may still think it’s a wonderful idea to give them an honored place.

214 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:38:54pm

re: #206 HappyWarrior

The funny thing to me as someone who has studied Communism and its history is that Crazy Glenn acts like it’s all one monolithic group. The man has obviously never heard of the Sino-Soviet split or the Soviet-Albanian or the Soviet-Yugoslav for that matter too.

Beck is fooling everyone, it’s really the monster under the bed we need to worry about. Communism is just a red herring, Beck is controlled by said monsters evil mind rays.

/

215 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:39:18pm

re: #207 freetoken

Posey, Adams to NASA: More rockets, and forget about climate change

Those GOP reps don’t seem to understand that the Earth is a planet, and it is the only one we can study close up 24/7/365.

And NASA studies planets.

NASA’s expenditures on climate studies wouldn’t pay but a most trivial portion of the costs of developing a new manned space-flight capability.

*headdesk*

This is why the anti-intellectualism and anti-science bent of the GOP is so damned dangerous. We’re going to be a Third World country by the time these idiots are finished.

216 theheat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:40:44pm

re: #213 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Between GOPProud and Palin joining the charge to diminish women’s rights, it hardly matters who sits at her table.

217 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:40:49pm

And, those reps, whose districts include aerospace companies, also don’t realize that the accused NASA expenditures on climate studies in large part are just more anti-climate science agiprop. Satellites are expensive, but most science satellites are cheap, and the NASA expenditures of science satellites to study the Earth are multi-disciplinary.

If those reps don’t want NASA to study Earth’s climate, then they don’t want those satellites launched… but wait… satellites take rockets to get into orbit, so science mission satellites mean spending money on the rocket industry… in those congressmen’s district….

I’m confused, but no where near as much as those congressmen.

218 recusancy  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:40:50pm

Hey Charles. I know you follow the web designer Andy Rutledge. Have you seen the blow up today on what he wrote about designers and Kickstarter?

219 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:41:33pm

GOD DAMMIT, WHEN WE SAY NASA, WE MEAN ROCKETS AND SHIT! QUIT BOTHERING US WITH BORING ASS SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY CRAP!

220 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:42:33pm

re: #207 freetoken

IN fact let me make a couple of things very clear about the GOP view of NASA.

Manned space flight is at current technology levels, essentially useless scientifically and in terms of any sort of colonization endeavor. For certain, having a giant telescope complex on the dark side of the moon would be awesome. However, that is just not in the current technological cards, and a manned trip to MArs is still just dreaming.

It simply takes too long to get there with the amount of stuff we can fit on a given ship. It need not always be that way, but a manned program now certainly does not have the needed technology, and no don’t tell me about nay sayers and going to the moon. The moon is peanuts compared to Mars in terms of manned flight.

As such, manned spaceflight is nothing more than a combination of corporate welfare for certain aerospace firms and national propaganda that even as propaganda has limited value. Of course the GOP loves it.

ON the other hand, climate is the single most important thing we could be using NASA resources to look at. Those NASA resources make the clear, obvious and compelling case for human caused catastrophic climate changes. If people get wise to just how bad it really is, that might get in the way of the GOP’s corporate masters like the Koch brothers. Of course they hate it.

FUCKERS.

221 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:42:52pm

re: #212 reine.de.tout

As far as I can tell, that item is fairly well-publicized, as is information about teen pregnancy. But … nature takes its course, and things happen.

I don’t want to have to decide what’s the right thing to do for anyone.
I am vigorously anti-abortion, the procedure.

But the fact is that there will be unplanned pregnancies, and at least some of them will be unwanted and at least some of those women will seek to have an abortion. If they do, then I think they should be able to receive the safest care possible. But frankly, I spend my time/energy/money trying to talk up alternatives to abortion.

Evil exists. I think everyone involved spends their time trying to educate the alternatives, but rarely do they talk about the responsibility of being able to raise the child without taxpayer assistance.

222 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:43:26pm

re: #217 freetoken

I’m confused, but no where near as much as those congressmen.

And to a man, I’ll bet they all believe in American Exceptionalism.

Trouble is, it’s hard to be exceptional if you keep cutting science and innovation off at the knees. =P

223 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:43:39pm

re: #213 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer’s puzzler is twitching because Palin did not come across as a blatant homophobe

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. All this grandstanding from Fischer and the other Christian Conservatives is an attempt to make the conference that they sponsor, and make money off of (the Values Voters’ Summit) THE IMPORTANT Republican conference to attend.

224 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:45:30pm

re: #220 LudwigVanQuixote

Don’t worry LVQ, at the rate science education is being diluted they’ll update the effects on Space:1999 in the next few years and successfully sell it as a documentary on how the GOP saved everything by purposefully using the Moon as a nuclear waste dump that they knew would convert into a magical star drive…

// (massive)

225 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:46:39pm

They just keep on getting crazier and crazier. If i were a more moderate Republican, I’d be feeling like my party abandoned me. I mean really, bitching at NASA because they’re researching changes in climate. The increasing anti-intellectualism of the GOP is troubling at best.

226 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:46:50pm

re: #215 Lidane

*headdesk*

This is why the anti-intellectualism and anti-science bent of the GOP is so damned dangerous. We’re going to be a Third World country by the time these idiots are finished.

I see we have another potential Nerf Desk (c) customer in the house…

227 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:47:35pm

re: #224 oaktree

Don’t worry LVQ, at the rate science education is being diluted they’ll update the effects on Space:1999 in the next few years and successfully sell it as a documentary on how the GOP saved everything by purposefully using the Moon as a nuclear waste dump that they knew would convert into a magical star drive…

// (massive)

Our astronauts are super-strong, look how they effortlessly handle a steel girder in zero gravity. All bow before our new Supermen!

228 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:47:36pm

re: #220 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In summary, you’re both implying the GOP view on NASA is:

Rockets = Phalluses

229 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:49:02pm

re: #220 LudwigVanQuixote

IN fact let me make a couple of things very clear about the GOP view of NASA.

Manned space flight is at current technology levels, essentially useless scientifically and in terms of any sort of colonization endeavor. For certain, having a giant telescope complex on the dark side of the moon would be awesome. However, that is just not in the current technological cards, and a manned trip to MArs is still just dreaming.

It simply takes too long to get there with the amount of stuff we can fit on a given ship. It need not always be that way, but a manned program now certainly does not have the needed technology, and no don’t tell me about nay sayers and going to the moon. The moon is peanuts compared to Mars in terms of manned flight.

As such, manned spaceflight is nothing more than a combination of corporate welfare for certain aerospace firms and national propaganda that even as propaganda has limited value. Of course the GOP loves it.

ON the other hand, climate is the single most important thing we could be using NASA resources to look at. Those NASA resources make the clear, obvious and compelling case for human caused catastrophic climate changes. If people get wise to just how bad it really is, that might get in the way of the GOP’s corporate masters like the Koch brothers. Of course they hate it.

FUCKERS.

I’m all for manned spaceflight, but it needs to be done right for it to make any sense. It needs to be cost-effective and have clear, sensible, achievable goals; while Constellation was cool, it just didn’t make any sense to keep pouring money into it as it was laid out.

230 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:49:09pm

re: #228 freetoken

re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In summary, you’re both implying the GOP view on NASA is:

Rockets = Phalluses

Our nation is built on the principle of strapping heroes onto explosive devices and seeing what happens.

231 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:49:12pm

re: #225 HappyWarrior

The increasing anti-intellectualism of the GOP is troubling at best.

It’s far more than troubling. It’s dangerous. How in the hell are we supposed to compete on a scientific and technological level with other countries around the world if these assholes keep insisting that our kids be kept ignorant about things like science and reason?

At the rate the anti-intellectualism in the GOP is going, we’ll be a Third World country in twenty years.

232 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:49:12pm

re: #228 freetoken

re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In summary, you’re both implying the GOP view on NASA is:

Rockets = Phalluses

We only need rockets to penetrate Mother Russia.

233 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:50:07pm

re: #231 Lidane

But we’ll be a third-world, highly religious country, and I’m honestly starting to think that’s actually the point.

234 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:50:11pm

Lugar to Tea Party: “Get real.”

Among other criticisms, Tea Party activists have taken Lugar to task for supporting the new START nuclear arms treaty with Russia, claiming the U.S. is giving up too much and Russia is not giving up enough.

“I’ve been working systematically for 20 years going to Russia trying to help direct a situation in which we’re taking warheads off of missiles every day, destroying missiles that were aimed at us; destroying submarines that carried misslies up and down our coast,” said Lugar. “I’ve got to say ‘Get real’. I hear Tea Party or other people talking about they were against START. I said ‘Well, now, hang on here.’”

Lugar continued, “If you want to get into START, let’s talk about it, but realistically as Americans, not as some Republican renegade. [I’m] trying to take warheads of Russia [out of circulation] so they won’t hit Indiana.”

[Link: www.wane.com…]

235 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:50:18pm

re: #218 recusancy

Hey Charles. I know you follow the web designer Andy Rutledge. Have you seen the blow up today on what he wrote about designers and Kickstarter?

If I read this properly, I’d say that Rutledge just spit in the face of every member of the Open Source/FSF community.

236 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:50:19pm

gotta go

have a great afternoon all!

catcya’ll on the overnight.

237 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:51:02pm

re: #65 webevintage

When I reached the age where I no longer wanted children, I had a tubal ligation. It was not difficult to find an OB/GYN to perform the surgery, and afterward there were no more worries. I highly recommend going this route instead.

238 BishopX  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:51:06pm

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

OK quick poll here.

Everyone who thinks that the GOP has lost all touch with reality, from top to bottom, and only uses religion as a vehicle to whip up the masses and distract them from the aims of the corporate masters of the GOP, please ding up.

So I feel like I have to explain my down ding. While it’s undoubtedly true that the corporatists rule the GOP and pay lip service to religion as a means of motivating the base, I feel that turning this all into a conspiracy to confuse the American people about what they’re voting for is going to far. Most people know what they’re voting for, both socially and economically. Saying that pro-corporate party operatives are misusing the religious fervor of the American people to enrich their corporate masters misses the fact that many people agree with them, even when it isn’t in their best interests.

A couple of years ago I was having a conversation with my then roommate, a socially liberal pro-gun independent from a tea-bagger family, about taxes. I mentioned that prior that from the 1950s through the 1970s the top tax brackets where in the 70 to 90 percent range. He said “no, that’s too much”. I asked “what about a fifty percent rate?”, to which he replied, “no, that’s still too much, I don’t care how much you get for it; taking half of someones income is just wrong”. My friend is by no means a conservative, but he still felt that there were moral lines taxation should not cross. This isn’t an uncommon viewpoint, I won’t claim to guess at what percentage of GOP voters give us shit about fiscal issues, but it’s non-trivial. Conversely, there are some members of the GOP establishment (i.e. elected officials) who care primarily about social issues. Sarah Palin is a good example of this, as is the Texas school board members.

Saying that the tail is wagging the dog minimizes the role of the dog in all this. The republican base isn’t stupid, they know what their voting for.

239 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:51:27pm

Thank God the cold war is over. Now we can stop giving a shit about science. ///

241 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:52:27pm

re: #237 MurphysMom

When I reached the age where I no longer wanted children, I had a tubal ligation. It was not difficult to find an OB/GYN to perform the surgery, and afterward there were no more worries. I highly recommend going this route instead.

Instead of what?

242 recusancy  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:52:57pm

re: #235 RadicalModerate

If I read this properly, I’d say that Rutledge just spit in the face of every member of the Open Source/FSF community.

He’s a major agitator in the design community and often times a pompous right wing ass.

243 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:54:17pm

re: #231 Lidane

It’s far more than troubling. It’s dangerous. How in the hell are we supposed to compete on a scientific and technological level with other countries around the world if these assholes keep insisting that our kids be kept ignorant about things like science and reason?

At the rate the anti-intellectualism in the GOP is going, we’ll be a Third World country in twenty years.

It is dangerous, I agree. It really worries me that GOP candidates get their bones by mocking the president for being a Harvard trained Constitutional Law professor. They’re always whining about “elitists” in the government and crap. I heard someone put it this way regarding elitism. They in fact asked, why wouldn’t you want an elitist? IF you were to undergo surgery for an important operation, you’d want an elite surgeon.

244 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:54:41pm

The JBS is becoming more of an openly discussed issue. Beck has never officially endorsed them although I suspect he will soon.

245 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:54:45pm
246 jaunte  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:55:38pm

re: #245 bfos

call for introspection


Not what happened.

247 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:55:47pm

re: #241 Obdicut

She said that if she became pregnant she would be looking for an OB/GYN to perform an abortion. I believe that, once a person is certain she no longer wants children, sterilization is preferable to abortion.

248 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:55:49pm

Manned space-flight probably is motivated greatly by national pride issues more than science, and for propaganda reasons this country has used space-flight.

I must say, though, that it has been wildly successful propaganda. Around the world a great deal of long lasting prestige was earned for the US by various manned space flight projects.

Nations want to have heroes, and we will make some if we don’t have enough. People like Glenn, Armstrong, Aldrin, etc. fill a social roll. It’s sort of the same roll played by, oh, let’s say Aaron Rodgers today for some youngsters, but the former gentlemen have more cachet and history will remember them longer.

249 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:55:59pm

re: #242 recusancy

He’s a major agitator in the design community and often times a pompous right wing ass.

Sort of the anti-Richard Stallman (who’s a pompous left wing ass)?

250 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:56:42pm

Whats the over under on it being the same guy using a sock?

251 recusancy  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:56:47pm

re: #249 RadicalModerate

Sort of the anti-Richard Stallman (who’s a pompous left wing ass)?

Possibly. I don’t know who that is.

252 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:57:58pm

re: #247 MurphysMom

She said that if she became pregnant she would be looking for an OB/GYN to perform an abortion. I believe that, once a person is certain she no longer wants children, sterilization is preferable to abortion.

That’s fine. What about before they’re certain they want children?

253 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:58:05pm

re: #209 Jadespring

Oh crap, that is ridiculous! A good safe home gets turned away. I’d ordinarily not ever suggest this but hell, just lie to them, get your pigs and take great care of them, as I know you will. The pigs get a home, you get what you need and the shelter has another good placement. I just hate it when advocates act so irresponsibly.

254 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:58:18pm

re: #233 Obdicut

But we’ll be a third-world, highly religious country, and I’m honestly starting to think that’s actually the point.

I don’t think it is. I think it’s an example of the negative or dark side of American Exceptionalism. America is an exceptional country as have many here have pointed out there are reasons for that. The problem though is that if a persons understanding of ‘exceptional’ is just that is this way because it’s exceptional- some sort of cosmic reason, then there is no need to really look further then that. Not much analysis needed. Cosmic reasons also imply that it will always be that way no matter what happens because it moves outside of the realm of basic human actions.

255 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:58:55pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

CNN: Bill Kristol Is Calling Out Glenn Beck’s “Elaborate Stream Of Conspiracy Theories”

cnn never fails to dissapoint. they never address the validity of either side. no depth or research. turned what could have been an informative piece into “guess what he said”. “oh no he didn’t”.

256 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:59:06pm

re: #247 MurphysMom

By the way, tubal ligations aren’t 100% effective.

257 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:59:07pm

re: #247 MurphysMom

Find me an OB/GYN that will give a woman who hasn’t had kids yet an IUD, much less a tubal ligation. Many won’t, just because they believe that a woman of child-bearing years will change her mind even if she says she’s certain of her choice.

258 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 2:59:52pm

re: #252 Obdicut

I wouldn’t really recommend sterilization prior to starting your family.

259 freetoken  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:00:44pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

The JBS is becoming more of an openly discussed issue. Beck has never officially endorsed them although I suspect he will soon.

One thing I think could cause more social acceptance of conspiracy mongering would be a continued economic malaise leading into another great recession.

Sustained, perpetually high numbers of unemployed people takes its toll on the political arena. Increased extremism (radical/reactionary polarity) follows from unhappiness.

We run a real risk of finding ourselves on the short end of this “recovery”, compared to some other nations. This could really taint American politics and will give the isolationists some real political clout.

The big thing I’m watching for is any movement on the NAFTA or WTO fronts. If free trade gets kicked to the curb then we could really start spiraling.

260 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:00:49pm

re: #255 zora

cnn never fails to dissapoint. they never address the validity of either side. no depth or research. turned what could have been an informative piece into “guess what he said”. “oh no he didn’t”.

It’s a fight between Bill Kristol and Glenn Beck.
How can you address validity, when none really exists?

261 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:02:16pm

re: #253 Rightwingconspirator

Oh crap, that is ridiculous! A good safe home gets turned away. I’d ordinarily not ever suggest this but hell, just lie to them, get your pigs and take great care of them, as I know you will. The pigs get a home, you get what you need and the shelter has another good placement. I just hate it when advocates act so irresponsibly.

If I knew before I called I probably would have just lied. It didn’t even occur to me to do so. Now I know better I guess. I’m sure there are other out there that aren’t so ridiculous. If I do decide to get rescues I’ll find someone who is.

262 Winny Spencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:03:25pm

re: #260 RadicalModerate

It’s a fight between Bill Kristol and Glenn Beck.
How can you address validity, when none really exists?

Because Kristol’s point is valid, in this case.

263 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:03:44pm

re: #258 MurphysMom

‘scuse me but child bearing is not for all young women. As in some dare not for risk of passing on a genetic defect. Some will take that risk, some will choose not to. The very idea of a doctor withholding the sterilization option is just ridiculous and irresponsible.

If a young woman has the right to abort a pregnancy without question, then she has the right to sterilization as her choice just the same.

264 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:04:00pm

re: #209 Jadespring

And then a vegetarian butcher turns up…
(Why would one’s dietary habits *have* to match their profession?)

265 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:04:01pm

re: #257 Lidane

Well, if that’s the case, and they’re certain they don’t want children, a vasectomy would be the other option.

266 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:04:18pm

re: #261 Jadespring

Good luck I wish you and your future pigs well.

267 zora  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:04:54pm

re: #260 RadicalModerate

It’s a fight between Bill Kristol and Glenn Beck.
How can you address validity, when none really exists?

guess i should have included.. “or lack thereof”.

268 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:05:24pm

re: #265 MurphysMom

Well, if that’s the case, and they’re certain they don’t want children, a vasectomy would be the other option.

But men can’t get pregnant, so why bother?

269 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:05:33pm

re: #265 MurphysMom

Now you’re just being deliberately dense.

270 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:05:52pm

re: #250 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Whats the over under on it being the same guy using a sock?

I don’t have evidence to confirm that, but I do have evidence that this is another, “I’m pro-choice but I have a concern” troll.

271 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:06:02pm

re: #245 bfos

You’re barking up the wrong tree, here. The commentors on this subject are vitriolic and any call for introspection on the topic will be immediately branded as idiotic and trolling.

Would you kindly like to debate the topic good sir, my first opponent seems to no longer be here….?

272 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:07:09pm

re: #257 Lidane

Oh boy I’d pay to have 5 minutes to read your ob/gyn the riot act. OMG.

273 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:07:21pm

re: #245 bfos

Concerned troll is concerned.

274 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:08:05pm

re: #273 Lidane

Concerned troll is concerned.

Trying to pick up a martyr cookie on the cheap.

275 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:08:07pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Would you kindly like to debate the topic good sir, my first opponent seems to no longer be here…?

Or is he…

276 Winny Spencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:08:21pm

re: #267 zora

guess i should have included.. “or lack thereof”.

So if you dislike a person, nothing he says can have any validity. Got it.

277 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:09:46pm

re: #262 Winny Spencer

Because Kristol’s point is valid, in this case.

Just some snarkiness on my part - it’s kind of alien to me to have to type “Bill Kristol is right”.

It’s sort of similar to having Alex Jones pointing at Lyndon LaRouche and saying “That guy’s crazy”.

278 Lidane  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:10:42pm

re: #272 Rightwingconspirator

Oh boy I’d pay to have 5 minutes to read your ob/gyn the riot act. OMG.

To be fair, I wasn’t talking about my OB/GYN. I’ve never brought up the subject with her. I’m on the Pill, which is fine by me, since I’m already on daily meds for my PCOS and am already in the habit of taking pills at the same time daily. The Pill helps keep my hormone levels in check and the prevention of pregnancy is an added bonus.

However, I’ve heard horror stories about women and girls being denied IUDs and tubal ligations even though they know they don’t want kids at all, just because their doctors tell them that it’s a rash decision and that they might change their minds later on. That’s what I was referring to.

279 Winny Spencer  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:10:51pm

re: #277 RadicalModerate

Just some snarkiness on my part - it’s kind of alien to me to have to type “Bill Kristol is right”.

It’s sort of similar to having Alex Jones pointing at Lyndon LaRouche and saying “That guy’s crazy”.

Fair enough. Pardon my snarkiness too.

280 Kid Skeeter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:11:38pm

Seems my “esteemed” Senator Patrick (Texas) that is the sponsor of this jaw-dropping abortion bill has a problem with Asians…

“On Thursday afternoon, October 28, 1993, Patrick drew fire when he referred to the television program of CBS’s Connie Chung – a Chinese American – as “Slanted Eye to Eye” during the Three A.M. Egos talk show.”

Classy, you piece of shit.

281 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:12:18pm

If a woman who doesn’t wants kids or anymore kids and prefers to go the sterilization route as Murphy’s Mom suggests is a better way then that is her choice to agree it’s a better way.

If she doesn’t that is a choice.

If she then gets pregnant and decides to get an abortion that is a choice.

If she chooses to go through with the pregnancy and keep it, that is a choice.

If she gives it up for adoption. That is another choice.

The gov’t has no business regulating those types of choices or forcing one or the other.

No gov’t owns or regulates mine or other women’s reproductive systems.

Freedom or bondage to the State.

It’s that simple a choice.

282 Kid Skeeter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:15:08pm

“The next morning on Patrick’s Talk’n Sports show, persons called in complaining about his remarks, but Patrick defended himself by referring to his comments as an “innocent ad-lib” and a “play on words.”

Wow.

283 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:16:07pm

re: #280 Kid A

Boy, the racists are just happy as clams these days, aren’t they? They’ve been able to bring racism back into the mainstream after such a brief period of time out of the picture.

284 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:16:16pm

re: #263 Rightwingconspirator

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I’m recommending sterilization for those who do not wish to have children, and discouraging sterilization for those who intend to have children at some point (which just seems to be common sense). I did not defend doctors who refuse to sterilize women who want to be sterilized.

285 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:16:18pm

re: #282 Kid A

“The next morning on Patrick’s Talk’n Sports show, persons called in complaining about his remarks, but Patrick defended himself by referring to his comments as an “innocent ad-lib” and a “play on words.”

Wow.

He sounds like a real asshole. I’m sure he’s one of these people who is convinced that Rush Limbaugh is the greatest satirist of all time.

286 HoosierHoops  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:17:55pm

re: #282 Kid A

“The next morning on Patrick’s Talk’n Sports show, persons called in complaining about his remarks, but Patrick defended himself by referring to his comments as an “innocent ad-lib” and a “play on words.”

Wow.

Is that Dan Patrick’s Radio show?

287 Kid Skeeter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:19:10pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

Is that Dan Patrick’s Radio show?

Not his political talk show that he does now. This was back in 1993.

288 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:19:16pm

re: #282 Kid A

“The next morning on Patrick’s Talk’n Sports show, persons called in complaining about his remarks, but Patrick defended himself by referring to his comments as an “innocent ad-lib” and a “play on words.”

Wow.

Satire, ladies and gentlemen, its just satire. You’re probably just not smart enough to get it.

/

289 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:19:24pm

re: #278 Lidane

Okay, also to be fair I should have referred to the ob/gyn that would refuse that surgery. Gosh, a woman can choose to abort, but can’t choose to have sterilization surgery? Umm, about that “right to control their bodies”. Who the heck decided that only meant abortion? The dichotomy just reeks.

290 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:20:19pm

Just think. With the GOP all of the money you save in taxes — allegedly — will be spent on years of psycho-therapy and booze.

/

291 Kid Skeeter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:21:16pm

“Patrick was known for exhibiting attention-grabbing behavior on-air, including the following: painting himself and the room blue in support of the Houston Oilers football team; doing sportscasts wearing an oversized cowboy hat, rising out of a casket, wearing a tuxedo, and singing; and having his vasectomy performed on-air.”

As sick as this fuck is, he’d probably not mind having abortions broadcast either.

292 Girth  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:21:24pm

Had to step away for awhile but to comment on the union = Marxist BS:

My father worked in auto manufacturing for many years, and towards the end of his career he was heavily involved, on the management side, with collective bargaining agreement negotiations with the UAW. He also worked in Personnel, and butted heads everyday with union reps while he was trying to take disciplinary actions against employees. When I was a growing up we had to have our phone number unlisted because of threats he was getting.

Dad bitches up a storm about unions and how they’ve wrecked industry by making labor and pension costs too high. I asked him once if he thought we’d be better off without unions. His response was along the lines of, “Son, I think they’ve gone too far in a lot of ways, but anyone who says that unions are unnecessary or evil has no idea what they’re talking about.”

293 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:23:00pm

IMO, when life “starts” is the wrong question. It never stopped being alive. Sperm and eggs are living cells. And they carry human genetic information with them so in a sense they are already human life.

But that doesn’t meant that I support the life of a sperm or a blastocyst over the life and rights of the mother carrying it. Some people need to get their heads out of ideological fantasy land and into the real world.

Because in the real world you are covered and filled with bacterial cells. You carry more of them than your own cells. But you don’t support the rights of those symbiotic organisms, whose lives your life depends on, over your own life.

In the real world, their impressions of what is “natural” are proven a fantasy by simple observation. There are gay animals. There are animals that can change sex, and back again in some cases, because of social cues. There are animals that are two sexes at the same time.

Stop living in fantasy land, the real world is amazing.

294 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:23:58pm

re: #292 Girth

My father had a very similar attitude. Worked as an engineer and at one location (now long since closed) he averaged a union grievance a year against him. Had something to do with his no-bullshit attitude towards behavior I think - especially when work safety was involved.

296 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:26:11pm

re: #284 MurphysMom

Okay I understand sterilization to mean a permanent status via surgery, and whatever method short of that to be birth control. And then I took the rest to be sarcasm. I fixed the down ding, but yeah that turn of phrase really threw me. I understand certain surgery for sterilization can sometimes be reversed but I have always been told it is never to be counted on as likely to be successful.

297 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:26:47pm

re: #294 oaktree

My grandpa started off anti-union, and converted to a union guy towards the end of his life after he saw too many guys arbitrarily fired and too many changes of management leading to unsafe working conditions.

298 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:27:00pm
299 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:28:21pm

re: #172 reine.de.tout

Sadly, that is the piece that’s missing; the generous and well-publicized resources for women who don’t choose abortion.

Where services are available, they are insufficient in many cases; and very often there is little to no publicizing of their availability and so people don’t know who to contact.

The best of these alternate services (at least in my area, and perhaps others as well) are provided by Catholic Charities. Their counseling and birth or adoption prep services for expectant moms are free of charge; they work with a state’s local Dept of Social Services to assist with governmental services that are available; and they operate on a shoestring budget, not much leftover for advertising.


Agree 100%

We’re just letting down America

300 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:28:38pm

re: #174 jaunte

Kids who grew up after the glory days of Pac-man just aren’t as interested in connecting the dots.

The key level, my friend

the key level

301 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:28:51pm

Right. Pro-life.

Ask them about collateral “damage”.

302 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:29:19pm

re: #280 Kid A

Seems my “esteemed” Senator Patrick (Texas) that is the sponsor of this jaw-dropping abortion bill has a problem with Asians…

“On Thursday afternoon, October 28, 1993, Patrick drew fire when he referred to the television program of CBS’s Connie Chung – a Chinese American – as “Slanted Eye to Eye” during the Three A.M. Egos talk show.”

Classy, you piece of shit.

wow

303 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:30:13pm

re: #301 Gus 802

Right. Pro-life.

Ask them about collateral “damage”.

Hey, you can’t make an omlette without breaking a few …

FUCK.

304 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:30:14pm

re: #292 Girth

Had to step away for awhile but to comment on the union = Marxist BS:

My father worked in auto manufacturing for many years, and towards the end of his career he was heavily involved, on the management side, with collective bargaining agreement negotiations with the UAW. He also worked in Personnel, and butted heads everyday with union reps while he was trying to take disciplinary actions against employees. When I was a growing up we had to have our phone number unlisted because of threats he was getting.

Dad bitches up a storm about unions and how they’ve wrecked industry by making labor and pension costs too high. I asked him once if he thought we’d be better off without unions. His response was along the lines of, “Son, I think they’ve gone too far in a lot of ways, but anyone who says that unions are unnecessary or evil has no idea what they’re talking about.”

this

305 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:31:24pm

re: #303 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hey, you can’t make an omlette without breaking a few …

FUCK.

Don’t you care about the children chickens?!?!?!?!?

//

306 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:31:56pm

re: #297 Obdicut

My grandpa started off anti-union, and converted to a union guy towards the end of his life after he saw too many guys arbitrarily fired and too many changes of management leading to unsafe working conditions.

I’m personally a bit ambivalent about them because I have had experiences with union personnel abusing their position and purposefully messing with the work of their temporary help. (Location I was working at during summers as a student.) Counter-balancing it has been working at locations with union workers who were very professional, company-oriented, and essentially a joy to work with.

Boils down to the people and organization(s) involved. Not the concept itself. Thus you will get a spectrum of behavior and results that make generalizations (union = bad) a fairly idiotic position to take. And given the history regarding labor in this country not having unions would probably result in bad things in any case.

307 RadicalModerate  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:32:16pm

By the way, regarding the Texas legislation being considered:

Here’s the summary of the story written when Governor Perry called the session:

Texas gov fast-tracks abortion measure, ignores budget crisis

Speaking before an anti-abortion rally at the state Capital on Saturday, the 38th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, Gov. Rick Perry told the crowd: “It’s pretty hard to imagine people of good conscience sitting idly by through this, and in Texas we haven’t,” the San Antonio Express News reports.
The bill is backed by Sen. Dan Patrick, R-Houston, and Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst.
Perry’s announcement on the abortion measure puts it on a short list of four other items he has granted emergency status to and all are hot-button topics in the state as well as the nation: a voter identification bill, putting an end to policies not requiring police to check immigration status of those they stop or arrest, reforming eminent domain, and seeking a US constitutional amendment that would authorize a balanced federal budget.

The state legislature is currently in a special “emergency” session called by Governor Rick Perry to address the following issues:

1. The anti-abortion sonogram bill, mentioned in this thread.
2. Fast-tracking passage of a voter identification bill, that has been specifically labelled as one that disenfrancises minority voters.
3. Texas’ version of Arizona’s “Papers Please” immigration legislation
4. A nod to the tea partiers: Federal Balanced Budget Amendment.

Missing from this legislative session is any attempt to address the $20 Billion budget shortfall that the state has - *and Texas has a balanced budget requirement in its constitution, by the way.*

308 jaunte  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:32:34pm

re: #295 Killgore Trout

OT: A Frog Evolved to Regain the Teeth Its Ancestors Jettisoned

Why are all these frogs smiling?

309 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:32:38pm

So yeah… to anyone out there who cares to debate the point… I will grant you that a fertilized egg should have the same rights as a person from the moment of conception.

All you have to do is point out to me where they get the right to use somebody else’s organs against their will a right no human in this country has even if it would mean their death for lack of those organs.

Any takers?

310 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:32:42pm

I guess I am the only one here who has posted that had a relatively pro union upbringing. My mom’s dad was a brick mason and his father as well as father in law were both coal miners. He felt that the union had given them a better life than they had. I am of the thought that while unions aren’t always right, they are and were needed. The people who rag most on unions’ corruption are strangely silent when it comes to corporate corruption. My other grandfather as an arbitrator for the NLRB had to find common ground between management and unions. Family lore says he very nearly could have been a presidential appointee but he was let go in I believe the Nixon years and then went in to private practice. I never knew him but everyone I have talked to attests to his sense of fairness.

311 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:34:26pm

And now, a baby antelope.

Image: tumblr_lgbdirWuJQ1qzpwi0o1_500.jpg

312 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:34:33pm

re: #310 HappyWarrior

I guess I am the only one here who has posted that had a relatively pro union upbringing. My mom’s dad was a brick mason and his father as well as father in law were both coal miners. He felt that the union had given them a better life than they had. I am of the thought that while unions aren’t always right, they are and were needed. The people who rag most on unions’ corruption are strangely silent when it comes to corporate corruption. My other grandfather as an arbitrator for the NLRB had to find common ground between management and unions. Family lore says he very nearly could have been a presidential appointee but he was let go in I believe the Nixon years and then went in to private practice. I never knew him but everyone I have talked to attests to his sense of fairness.

Who builds the fighter jets, military transports, airliners, bridges, fighting ships, tanks, and so on?

Answer: union workers.

313 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:35:36pm

re: #310 HappyWarrior

I guess I am the only one here who has posted that had a relatively pro union upbringing. My mom’s dad was a brick mason and his father as well as father in law were both coal miners. He felt that the union had given them a better life than they had. I am of the thought that while unions aren’t always right, they are and were needed. The people who rag most on unions’ corruption are strangely silent when it comes to corporate corruption. My other grandfather as an arbitrator for the NLRB had to find common ground between management and unions. Family lore says he very nearly could have been a presidential appointee but he was let go in I believe the Nixon years and then went in to private practice. I never knew him but everyone I have talked to attests to his sense of fairness.

Grew up working-class in Pittsburgh—‘nuff said.

314 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:36:00pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Who builds the fighter jets, military transports, airliners, bridges, fighting ships, tanks, and so on?

Answer: union workers.

Now awaiting the David Weber novel where the military is unionized and the nation falls because the Amalgamated NCOs are on strike…

315 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:36:18pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Who builds the fighter jets, military transports, airliners, bridges, fighting ships, tanks, and so on?

Answer: union workers.

Only because the corporations deign to give them work, the ungrateful bastards.
/

316 HoosierHoops  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:36:51pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Who builds the fighter jets, military transports, airliners, bridges, fighting ships, tanks, and so on?

Answer: union workers.

I spent 20 years at MINSY building nuclear Subs..
All Union workers…And some of the most talented craft workers in the world

317 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:37:06pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Who builds the fighter jets, military transports, airliners, bridges, fighting ships, tanks, and so on?

Answer: union workers.

Yeah, people act like union workers are scum. I can tell you this much while I never knew my great grandfathers, I can tell you that they were some of the hardest working men you’d ever meet. My mom’s mom’s dad raised five children as a widower before remarrying. It really is too bad that he never got to enjoy retirement and he didn’t get to meet my mom and her brother either. Black lung, quite a shame.

318 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:37:47pm

re: #297 Obdicut
re: #312 Gus 802

People often foolishly fall into extreme positions on this. With proper checks and balances unions can be a very good thing. Without them you get either no unions and employees getting screwed, or in opposite circumstances you get unions so powerful that can get utterly unreasonable benefits, as in the fixed benefit pension fiasco we have in California. Checks and balances are critical, seemingly too nuanced for the media and ratings seeking pundits to address.

319 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:38:08pm

re: #315 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Only because the corporations deign to give them work, the ungrateful bastards.
/

Right on. They should all quit their unions and work for minimum wage with no benefits and prostrate themselves to their true master! The corporate execs and arm chair economic experts!

//

320 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:38:38pm

re: #316 HoosierHoops

I spent 20 years at MINSY building nuclear Subs..
All Union workers…And some of the most talented craft workers in the world

And now you’ve hied to Oklahoma and far from the sea. What do you know that we don’t know???

/(conspiracy lurks behind every bush)

321 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:38:57pm

Here’s one of my states finest GOP lawmakers speaking metaphorically:

Beason, Chairman of the powerful Senate Rules Committee, closed his remarks by suggesting Republicans “empty the clip, and do what has to be done” to prevent undocumented immigrants from “destroying” Alabama.

[Link: www.leftinalabama.com…]

322 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:39:31pm

re: #314 oaktree

Now awaiting the David Weber novel where the military is unionized and the nation falls because the Amalgamated NCOs are on strike…

Huh? I never saw that much of a rightward bent in David Webers work….

323 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:39:54pm

re: #321 Decatur Deb

Here’s one of my states finest GOP lawmakers speaking metaphorically:

Beason, Chairman of the powerful Senate Rules Committee, closed his remarks by suggesting Republicans “empty the clip, and do what has to be done” to prevent undocumented immigrants from “destroying” Alabama.

[Link: www.leftinalabama.com…]

You’re taking him out of context. He was obviously referring to a roach clip…
/

324 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:39:57pm
325 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:40:27pm

re: #317 HappyWarrior

Yeah, people act like union workers are scum. I can tell you this much while I never knew my great grandfathers, I can tell you that they were some of the hardest working men you’d ever meet. My mom’s mom’s dad raised five children as a widower before remarrying. It really is too bad that he never got to enjoy retirement and he didn’t get to meet my mom and her brother either. Black lung, quite a shame.

I love the double standards too. Ronald Reagan: former union president. Todd Palin: union member. I’m sure there’s more. I’m sure the B-listers that blog at “Big Hollywood” are also members of the actors guild.

326 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:40:42pm

re: #318 Rightwingconspirator

re: #312 Gus 802

People often foolishly fall into extreme positions on this. With proper checks and balances unions can be a very good thing. Without them you get either no unions and employees getting screwed, or in opposite circumstances you get unions so powerful that can get utterly unreasonable benefits, as in the fixed benefit pension fiasco we have in California. Checks and balances are critical, seemingly too nuanced for the media and ratings seeking pundits to address.

What can be done that reasonably limits the power of unions?

Do you have any suggestions?

327 HoosierHoops  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:41:42pm

re: #320 oaktree

And now you’ve hied to Oklahoma and far from the sea. What do you know that we don’t know???

/(conspiracy lurks behind every bush)

I work for the private sector now…They send me where ever they want…

328 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:42:16pm

re: #325 Gus 802

I love the double standards too. Ronald Reagan: former union president. Todd Palin: union member. I’m sure there’s more. I’m sure the B-listers that blog at “Big Hollywood” are also members of the actors guild.

Here’s another one, Gus. Former Senator Jim Bunning was a huge part of the baseball players’ union in baseball.

329 Kragar  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:42:35pm

re: #326 jamesfirecat

What can be done that reasonably limits the power of unions?

Do you have any suggestions?

Wergeld?

330 Girth  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:42:55pm

re: #318 Rightwingconspirator

re: #312 Gus 802

People often foolishly fall into extreme positions on this. With proper checks and balances unions can be a very good thing. Without them you get either no unions and employees getting screwed, or in opposite circumstances you get unions so powerful that can get utterly unreasonable benefits, as in the fixed benefit pension fiasco we have in California. Checks and balances are critical, seemingly too nuanced for the media and ratings seeking pundits to address.

This is America. We don’t do nuance.

331 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:44:05pm

re: #324 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Evolution Made Us All from Ben Hillman on Vimeo.

Lol, that was great.

332 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:44:29pm

re: #329 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wergeld?

Huh?

333 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:45:09pm

re: #328 HappyWarrior

Here’s another one, Gus. Former Senator Jim Bunning was a huge part of the baseball players’ union in baseball.

How about another bullshit artist?

Fred Thompson:

Although he maintained his membership in the Screen Actors Guild when he was a senator, Thompson generally took the opposite side of the unions in legislation.

334 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:47:20pm

re: #333 Gus 802

How about another bullshit artist?

Fred Thompson:

Although he maintained his membership in the Screen Actors Guild when he was a senator, Thompson generally took the opposite side of the unions in legislation.

Ah that would make sense. Bunning just came to mind to me since when the Veterans Committee had its voting, Marvin Miller was in the news and Miller was talking about how funny it is that Bunning was one of the biggest advocates for the union in baseball then turned out to be very anti union as an elected official.

335 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:48:25pm

re: #310 HappyWarrior

Union family in Wisconsin & my FiL was one of the top organizers for the United Brotherhood of Carpenters for decades. He gave many thousands of families better lives.

336 Gus  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:48:46pm

“Hi. My name is Fred Thompson. I belong to the Screen Actors Guild. I’ve made quite a profit through the hard work of my union and my career as a B-lister. However, while in congress I consistently voted against the wishes of unions while maintaining my membership with the Screen Actors Guild. I am a man of principle.”

//

337 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:50:45pm

re: #314 oaktree

Now awaiting the David Weber novel where the military is unionized and the nation falls because the Amalgamated NCOs are on strike…

He’s too busy pushing monarchy as the best form of government (like almost all of Baen’s writers) to be too worried about unions. Once there’s king they’ll be easy to deal with …

/ only a little

338 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 3:53:12pm

re: #329 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wergeld?

Is that gold that turns into silver under a full moon, or the other way round? (when it frightens Glen Beck)

(Yes, I do know what the term actually means.)

339 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:05:12pm

re: #213 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer’s puzzler is twitching because Palin did not come across as a blatant homophobe

Maybe they would prefer a different Palin. I hear Bristol likes to call people “faggots” of facebook. Maybe she is enough of a homophobe for them.

340 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:10:28pm

re: #238 BishopX

So I feel like I have to explain my down ding. While it’s undoubtedly true that the corporatists rule the GOP and pay lip service to religion as a means of motivating the base, I feel that turning this all into a conspiracy to confuse the American people about what they’re voting for is going to far. Most people know what they’re voting for, both socially and economically. Saying that pro-corporate party operatives are misusing the religious fervor of the American people to enrich their corporate masters misses the fact that many people agree with them, even when it isn’t in their best interests.

A couple of years ago I was having a conversation with my then roommate, a socially liberal pro-gun independent from a tea-bagger family, about taxes. I mentioned that prior that from the 1950s through the 1970s the top tax brackets where in the 70 to 90 percent range. He said “no, that’s too much”. I asked “what about a fifty percent rate?”, to which he replied, “no, that’s still too much, I don’t care how much you get for it; taking half of someones income is just wrong”. My friend is by no means a conservative, but he still felt that there were moral lines taxation should not cross. This isn’t an uncommon viewpoint, I won’t claim to guess at what percentage of GOP voters give us shit about fiscal issues, but it’s non-trivial. Conversely, there are some members of the GOP establishment (i.e. elected officials) who care primarily about social issues. Sarah Palin is a good example of this, as is the Texas school board members.

Saying that the tail is wagging the dog minimizes the role of the dog in all this. The republican base isn’t stupid, they know what their voting for.

Do they know that they are voting for the topic of this thread? Apparently what they are voting for is to take away my right to what I do with my body. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but now I have to say screw them. Since they know exactly what they are voting for.

341 palomino  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:10:30pm

re: #254 Jadespring

I don’t think it is. I think it’s an example of the negative or dark side of American Exceptionalism. America is an exceptional country as have many here have pointed out there are reasons for that. The problem though is that if a persons understanding of ‘exceptional’ is just that is this way because it’s exceptional- some sort of cosmic reason, then there is no need to really look further then that. Not much analysis needed. Cosmic reasons also imply that it will always be that way no matter what happens because it moves outside of the realm of basic human actions.

Very well said. Some of the staunchest, but least rational, proponents of American exceptionalism see America as existing outside the material and historical forces that have shaped the world through the millennia.

342 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:14:53pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Who builds the fighter jets, military transports, airliners, bridges, fighting ships, tanks, and so on?

Answer: union workers.

And my father is one of them. Proud to come from a union household. Corporations and business advocate for themselves, so why shouldn’t workers?

343 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:23:10pm

re: #269 Lidane

No, I just hold men to an equal share of the responsibility. :)

Obviously, vasectomy is another rational choice for a married couple. But if you’re referring to a single woman who is certain she doesn’t want children and is unable to get either an IUD or her tubes tied, it seems to me she might want to limit herself to dating men who already have vasectomies. Why commit time to a relationship with someone who wants such a fundamentally different life? Why risk the heartache?

A friend of mine went through just that kind of situation. She wanted children, he didn’t. They were both very unhappy, spent years trying to change each others minds, and eventually divorced. Just seems like a lot of years wasted in heartache.

344 b_sharp  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:25:53pm

re: #343 MurphysMom

No, I just hold men to an equal share of the responsibility. :)

Obviously, vasectomy is another rational choice for a married couple. But if you’re referring to a single woman who is certain she doesn’t want children and is unable to get either an IUD or her tubes tied, it seems to me she might want to limit herself to dating men who already have vasectomies. Why commit time to a relationship with someone who wants such a fundamentally different life? Why risk the heartache?

A friend of mine went through just that kind of situation. She wanted children, he didn’t. They were both very unhappy, spent years trying to change each others minds, and eventually divorced. Just seems like a lot of years wasted in heartache.

Time share.

345 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:36:27pm

re: #247 MurphysMom

She said that if she became pregnant she would be looking for an OB/GYN to perform an abortion. I believe that, once a person is certain she no longer wants children, sterilization is preferable to abortion.

Well of course it is, but I can’t afford to get the tubes tied any more then I can have the scan to see where my parathyroid tumor is.
I mean it is not like we fuck whilly nilly like teenagers.
and condoms are cheap.

346 webevintage  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:40:16pm

re: #278 Lidane


However, I’ve heard horror stories about women and girls being denied IUDs and tubal ligations even though they know they don’t want kids at all, just because their doctors tell them that it’s a rash decision and that they might change their minds later on. That’s what I was referring to.

Indeed.
It is VERY hard for a woman under 30 with no kids to find a Doctor who will do a tubal ligation.
Not that I’m anywhere near under 30 anymore.

347 BishopX  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:50:27pm

re: #340 moderatelyradicalliberal

Do they know that they are voting for the topic of this thread? Apparently what they are voting for is to take away my right to what I do with my body. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but now I have to say screw them. Since they know exactly what they are voting for.

Yes…I think many of them do. polls suggest 20-25% are opposed to pretty much all abortion, and another 25-30% consider themselves pro-life but will allow it in some circumstances. Those numbers fit the crazy curve well, somewhere around 20% of the country is hardcore right wing, both fiscally and socially, and another 20% consider themselves “conservative” but don’t necessarily hold right wing positions lock stock and barrel.

348 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 5:12:59pm

re: #347 BishopX

Yes…I think many of them do. polls suggest 20-25% are opposed to pretty much all abortion, and another 25-30% consider themselves pro-life but will allow it in some circumstances. Those numbers fit the crazy curve well, somewhere around 20% of the country is hardcore right wing, both fiscally and socially, and another 20% consider themselves “conservative” but don’t necessarily hold right wing positions lock stock and barrel.

I just hope it’s the same 25% of crazies on each issue.

349 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 5:18:17pm

re: #345 webevintage

Ah. Obviously, the scan’s the top priority. Take some consolation in the fact that the older we get the less fertile we are. And be thankful you’re not acting like teenagers any more. As I remember, back then we didn’t know what we were doing. :)

350 CarleeCork  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 5:19:30pm

I am so sick of this fucking bullshit. My body, my choice. Your body, your choice.

Don’t believe in abortion? Don’t have one.

351 BishopX  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 5:28:25pm

re: #348 Decatur Deb

Me too, I generally assume 25% of the population are batshit fucking crazy fascists and everything is their fault.

352 Querent  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 5:39:20pm

re: #1 ggt

arghhh!

This issue is like a zombie — it just won’t die…

353 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 5:55:28pm

re: #310 HappyWarrior

I guess I am the only one here who has posted that had a relatively pro union upbringing. My mom’s dad was a brick mason and his father as well as father in law were both coal miners. He felt that the union had given them a better life than they had. I am of the thought that while unions aren’t always right, they are and were needed. The people who rag most on unions’ corruption are strangely silent when it comes to corporate corruption. My other grandfather as an arbitrator for the NLRB had to find common ground between management and unions. Family lore says he very nearly could have been a presidential appointee but he was let go in I believe the Nixon years and then went in to private practice. I never knew him but everyone I have talked to attests to his sense of fairness.

One thing never mentioned by the people bashing unions is that if unions are outlawed then we’ll be striking at one of our fundamental freedoms, the right to assemble.

I’ve pointed that out to anti-unionists in the past and damn, is it fun to watch them sputter and dance.

354 Querent  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 6:15:55pm

re: #38 webevintage


fuck them
fuck them
fuck them

No! DON’T fuck them — You don’t want them to reproduce and sue you for the child support!

355 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 6:18:27pm

Why is it a lot of the time the people championing these anti-choice bills are…women?

Seems backwards.

356 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 6:21:12pm

re: #346 webevintage

Indeed.
It is VERY hard for a woman under 30 with no kids to find a Doctor who will do a tubal ligation.
Not that I’m anywhere near under 30 anymore.

That’s not because doctors don’t support women’s rights. It’s because statistically, about half of younger women who do undergo some sort of permanent contraception regret that decision later. And then they get upset. And then some of them sue. That’s why doctors won’t do it - because people do change their mind. And frankly, given how much people change in their twenties and thirties, that’s as it should be.

357 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 6:28:45pm

What ever happened to “liberty and justice for all”?
My body, my choice.
End of story.
These “Tea Partiers” are going to get a RUDE wake up call, when
they try to push this agenda. They may have some support, but, I really doubt the majority or Americans will support this backwards move.

358 Querent  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 6:36:00pm

upding!

re: #132 engineer dog

when can we roll that policy out & go live with it?!

359 JoyousMN  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 6:50:58pm

re: #127 webevintage

I think what so many Forced Birth Zealots seem to forget is that NO ONE WANTS TO GET AN ABORTION.

Not a single woman I know who has had an abortion wanted to be in that position. We don’t think “hmmm, I think I’ll get knocked up so I can go get an abortion next month”.
BUT they were relived that they could legally get one.
And since most of them are over say 30ish they had theirs when it was easier and there were more Doctors willing to perform one.

In the state of Arkansas there are 2 (maybe one, Dr. Harrison died late last year) Doctors who are willing to provide what is a legal and safe part of reproductive health care to women.

I wish I could upding this more than once. It’s spot on. Thanks for posting this sentiment that I think gets lost in all the arguments.

360 Querent  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 7:06:25pm

re: #337 wlewisiii

He’s too busy pushing monarchy as the best form of government (like almost all of Baen’s writers*) to be too worried about unions. Once there’s king they’ll be easy to deal with …

/ only a little

* except Michael Z. Williamson — his SF governments are more of a Confederation of Lizards

361 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 7:12:00pm

re: #360 Querent

* except Michael Z. Williamson — his SF governments are more of a Confederation of Lizards

Don’t forget Eric Flint, heck the first half of 1632 basically reads like “and here is why the UMWA (United Mine Workers of America) are Awesome….

362 Jaerik  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 7:32:33pm

“…that would redefine human life to begin as soon as a heartbeat is audible.”

Oh really?

Are they going to hand out heartbeat certificates? Does the fetus get a social security number? Can you claim the fetus as a dependent on your taxes? What’s the withholding for a fetus?

Is the fetus covered under the State Children’s Health Insurance Program? Does it get its own Medicare benefits? Can a judge declare it an independent minor?

363 jaerik  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 9:53:28pm

I’m not done.

Is it Contributing to Delinquency if you drink while pregnant? Can a fetus inherit property? Should we have funerals for miscarriages? Do you have to declare them with the state? Can you take out life insurance on a fetus? Should we retroactively add nine months to all of our ages?

Why is it these same #*$holes that argue so passionately for the “traditional definition” of marriage argue so strongly against the “traditional definition” of when life begins?

364 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:12:01pm

re: #247 MurphysMom

She said that if she became pregnant she would be looking for an OB/GYN to perform an abortion. I believe that, once a person is certain she no longer wants children, sterilization is preferable to abortion.

Try being in your 20’s when you’re trying to be sterilized, they won’t do it.

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:13:57pm

re: #363 jaerik

I’m not done.

Is it Contributing to Delinquency if you drink while pregnant? Can a fetus inherit property? Should we have funerals for miscarriages? Do you have to declare them with the state? Can you take out life insurance on a fetus? Should we retroactively add nine months to all of our ages?

Why is it these same #*$holes that argue so passionately for the “traditional definition” of marriage argue so strongly against the “traditional definition” of when life begins?

The real question is, if a person is a person when a heartbeat is audible, that means every miscarriage is now a homicide investigation! if every fetus with a heartbeat is a person, then we must investigate every miscarriage, because a woman could have killed that person. Not a fetus! Now it’s a person, according to the witch doctors

And that is why I think these pro-life extremists are too dumb to be allowed out of the house without help.

366 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:50:26pm

re: #364 WindUpBird

I was responding to a post in which the writer being much later in life. To me, it would be terribly sad to be one’s 20’s and have to face the choice whether to ever have children. And as was pointed out by Renaissance Man, doctors do not take this decision lightly. My post concerned people towards the “end” of their reproductive life - not the beginning.

367 MurphysMom  Tue, Feb 8, 2011 11:58:17pm

re: #355 dragonfire1981

Please don’t place a limit on the acceptable opinions based on a person’s sex.

368 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 9, 2011 6:57:46am

re: #365 WindUpBird

The real question is, if a person is a person when a heartbeat is audible, that means every miscarriage is now a homicide investigation! if every fetus with a heartbeat is a person, then we must investigate every miscarriage, because a woman could have killed that person. Not a fetus! Now it’s a person, according to the witch doctors

And that is why I think these pro-life extremists are too dumb to be allowed out of the house without help.

And that’s why I keep referencing El Salvador. It’s what is happening there, and has since 1999. (see my previous at #83 )

369 Robert O.  Wed, Feb 9, 2011 11:05:32am

For the religious wing of the GOP, life begins at conception and ends at birth: no affordable healthcare, no public education, no child labor laws, every man for himself, etc.


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Lumberhead
That Time When Michael Grimm and His Opponent Couldn’t Name a Single Book They Had Read
For a candidate, being able to name a good, safe book when asking about reading habits should be as knee-jerk as enjoying a small-town slice of apple pie. Or kissing a baby. Or being in an ad with puppies ...

19 hours, 20 minutes ago
Views: 181 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
lockjawcanbefun
A perfectly rational reaction to the Ford defeat in Toronto
Don't give up after the first 10 seconds, you'll miss the fun. You can see the story behind this little piece of video here, but clicking on that will spoil the surprise.

2 days, 8 hours ago
Views: 393 • Comments: 5
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 4
FemNaziBitch
Fighting Human Trafficking in Supply Chains: What You Can Do | Madina Jarbussynova
As more and more stories of human trafficking appear in newspapers and on television, consumers are increasingly asking what they can do to fight this problem. Many are frustrated, and feel disconnected from the people who make the clothes ...

2 days, 19 hours ago
Views: 221 • Comments: 0
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blah blah ad hominem mumbo jumbo.
Astronomical!: A Visual Of The Distance Between The Earth And The Moon.
This really demonstrates how amazing our journey to the moon really was. Pic and story

4 days, 1 hour ago
Views: 457 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
The War TARDIS
Preview to Doctor Who, Series 8 Finale -SPOILERS- Updated x2
It appears Clara may have gone bad, if the latest trailer is anything to go by: Lines and Pictures to go with them: Clara: Do I have your attention? You will never step inside your TARDIS again Ok... Clara seems ...

5 days, 5 hours ago
Views: 613 • Comments: 9
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
MichaelJ
Jordy Smith + Impossibly Long Sand Bottom Tubes
More: Jordy Smith + Impossibly Long Sand Bottom Tubes 47701

6 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 355 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
EiMitch
Cracked: 6 Halloween Pranks for Sociopaths With Unlimited Budgets
cracked.com America's No. 1 holiday celebrating violence and candy is just around the corner, and this year it looks to be better than ever, as the glorious union of art and technology has given us several exciting new ways to ...

1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 688 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
 Frank says:

I never took a shit on stage, and the closest I ever came to eating shit anywhere was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 1973. -- From The Real Frank Zappa book.