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Anti-Muslim Bigot Brigade Embarrasses CPAC

Xenophobes run amok, make idiots of themselves
Wingnuts • Views: 31,760

Years ago, I renounced the so-called “anti-jihad” blogosphere when it became obvious that the bigots were taking over, and that some people who’d been masquerading as rational critics of extremist Islam were in fact harboring an extremist agenda of their own — giving lip service to the idea that not all Muslims are terrorists while constantly encouraging exactly the opposite opinion, and making covert alliances with far right and fascist European anti-Islam groups.

Now the worst of these anti-Muslim bigots have turned into a huge embarrassment for the conservative movement, as Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, Frank Gaffney, and David Horowitz spread xenophobia at CPAC and lash out at anyone who criticizes their paranoid conspiracy theories. I’m trying not to say, “I told you so.”

Politico has a report on the debacle.

“For 10 years, people have been asking for moderate Muslims to speak up,” said Spencer. “We’re going to be waiting for those guys until doomsday.” 

“Moderate Muslims don’t exist,” said one audience member at the Geller and Spencer event. “Muslims are not able to be moderate — or they are speaking against what is written in the Koran.”

Geller herself attacked CPAC and its organizers — the American Conservative Union, calling for the ouster of several ACU executives.

“This is the problem with CPAC. It’s corrupted and compromised by the Muslim Brotherhood,” Geller told the audience at her panel, saying CPAC’s leaders were either “clueless or complicit” to the threat posed by Islamists.

“There are 12,000 people who come to this event who don’t know they’ve been sold out by CPAC leadership,” said Geller, who said that the event had been taken over by Ron Paul supporters — as well as Islamists. “We have to take CPAC back.”

ThinkProgress is also focusing on this outbreak of rancid bigotry, interviewing Frank Gaffney:

Also see:
Pamela Geller versus CPAC.

Jump to bottom

220 comments

1 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:05:19am

They wouldn't know a moderate Muslim if they hit them in the face, which wouldn't be a bad idea...

They've abandoned the idea of moderate Muslim. A moderate Muslim is one who doesn't believe in Islam who is then, not a Muslim.

2 shiplord kirel  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:05:22am

“This is the problem with CPAC. It’s corrupted and compromised by the Muslim Brotherhood,”

"The communist party has now extended its tentacles into the Senate of the United States."
-Joseph McCarthy, 1954, commenting on his censure by the Senate

3 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:06:17am

"Muslims are not able to be moderate — or they are speaking against what is written in the Koran.”


These could be the words of a fundamentalist Islamist cleric - or Pam Geller.

Funny how warped minds think alike

4 Tigger2005  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:06:58am

Jews and Christians are not able to be moderate...or they're speaking against what's written in the Bible.

/

5 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:07:55am

Geller, Spencer, Gaffney, and Horowitz are the ideological descendants of the people who pushed the Protocols of Elders of Zion or insisted that Catholic immigrants would be more loyal to Rome than the US.

6 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:09:32am

So wait a sec, President Bush who derided radical Islam on every level was secretly sponsored by the Muslim Brotherhood? Wha??

7 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:10:36am

The hate and cognitive dissonance spewing forth from these jackwagons makes my head hurt...

8 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:11:16am

We need to take the country back from the populist morons who keep saying 'We need to take this country back!'

9 Interesting Times  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:12:04am
Muslims Christians are not able to be moderate support gay rights — or they are speaking against what is written in the Koran Bible.”

Value Voterized it for them.

10 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:13:04am

I am just grateful that at least Oklahoma remains as an island of safety against the spread of Sharia...

11 sagehen  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:13:22am
I’m trying not to say, “I told you so.”

No you're not. You're saying exactly that. I'd encourage you to say it even louder, if that's possible.

12 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:13:38am

Here's a money quote:
“It’s like when a little kid learned a dirty word and just keeps repeating it,” said Khan about the sharia. “It was ‘Wahhabi’ a few years ago.”
That word by the way is Sharia if you're curious.

13 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:14:44am

Paranoid.

14 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:16:06am

Wahabism is indirectly funded by the USA: through the Saudi royal family.

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:18:15am

re: #4 Tigger2005

Jews and Christians are not able to be moderate...or they're speaking against what's written in the Bible.

/

These same folks, many of them, quite agree.

16 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:18:34am

And I hate to be the bearer of bad news to Mr. Khan, people like Geller/Spencer aren't fringe minorities, they're a large and vocal part of the conservative movement. When you have elected officials echoing their rhetoric then you have a serious problem.

17 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:18:55am

CPAC is certainly not my gig. But, I think it's pretty creepy to show up at CPAC only to insult and slander it "from within". This happens every year. Some of the disgruntled right wingers show up at CPAC only to complain and talk about "re-inventing" CPAC. Here we have Gaffney showing up spreading paranoid "rumors" on Grover Norquist.

Daniel Pipes gets into the act.

They're all nuts.

18 Soap_Man  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:19:25am

If radical Islam was as prevalent, and ingrained in so many organizations, as some think, they would have taken over the world by now.

It reminds me of my cousin and his constant "liberal-controlled (fill in the blank)" I had to finally say, "according to you, liberals control everything important in America."

19 researchok  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:19:28am
20 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:19:34am
21 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:19:42am

The only hope is that they will eat each other before they do any irrefersible damage to the rest of the nation

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:19:44am

re: #6 marjoriemoon

So wait a sec, President Bush who derided radical Islam on every level was secretly sponsored by the Muslim Brotherhood? Wha??

You know, I've said a lot of unkind things over the years about President George W. Bush, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't on the take from the Muslim Brotherhood.

But what do I know? Just saying that suggests that I am either clueless or complicit.

23 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:20:58am

It took a while but the wheels have finally came off the counter Jihad movement. Game over.
Pam has rescheduled her upcoming Ground Zero mosque protest. I'm not sure if it's still on but I don't think anyone's going to show up.

24 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:21:09am

These guys picked the wrong week for their anti-Muslim bigotry. We've watched Muslims fight a successful, non-violent movement for freedom for three weeks now. No shouts of 'death the America' and no Israeli flags being burned and no pro-jihad chants either.

The story that overshadowed this pathetic gathering makes everything they are saying appear to be wrong. But, they can't let reality get in the way of their hatred now can they?

25 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:21:11am

re: #16 HappyWarrior

And I hate to be the bearer of bad news to Mr. Khan, people like Geller/Spencer aren't fringe minorities, they're a large and vocal part of the conservative movement. When you have elected officials echoing their rhetoric then you have a serious problem.

Yeah. Just read the comments on that article. Bleh.

26 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:21:18am

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I've said a lot of unkind things over the years about President George W. Bush, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't on the take from the Muslim Brotherhood.

But what do I know? Just saying that suggests that I am either clueless or complicit.

Bush was reasonable on two things: immigration reform and dealing with Islam. Shame he punted nearly everything else.

27 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:22:35am

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I've said a lot of unkind things over the years about President George W. Bush, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't on the take from the Muslim Brotherhood.

But what do I know? Just saying that suggests that I am either clueless or complicit.

LOL The world isn't making sense anymore!! I mean, you'd expect this thing from Code Pink. Nice to know they share philosophies.

28 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:22:59am

Btw, isn't Gaffney a CNN writer? Or am I thinking of another guy.

29 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:23:30am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

It took a while but the wheels have finally came off the counter Jihad movement. Game over.
Pam has rescheduled her upcoming Ground Zero mosque protest. I'm not sure if it's still on but I don't think anyone's going to show up.

American Idol....
tonight at 8pm Eastern

30 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:24:58am

OMG, the ZionistIslamists have joined with the CommunistIslamists! All we need now is HomoIslamists and the 'Splodeypocalypse' will start.

31 Stanghazi  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:25:01am

re: #17 Gus 802

CPAC is certainly not my gig. But, I think it's pretty creepy to show up at CPAC only to insult and slander it "from within". This happens every year. Some of the disgruntled right wingers show up at CPAC only to complain and talk about "re-inventing" CPAC. Here we have Gaffney showing up spreading paranoid "rumors" on Grover Norquist.

Daniel Pipes gets into the act.

They're all nuts.

That article by Pipes is the worst ever on Norquist. Basically libel.

32 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:25:15am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

It took a while but the wheels have finally came off the counter Jihad movement. Game over.
Pam has rescheduled her upcoming Ground Zero mosque protest. I'm not sure if it's still on but I don't think anyone's going to show up.

I like to leave the "counter Jihad movement" to the CIA, FBI, Homeland Security and the DOD. Certainly not a bunch of keyboard pounding loners sitting in front of there computer every day writing a bunch of pablum for their chair force readership. The reality is that they never, not once, have done anything to counter the "Jihadist movement". The primary goal of the more notorious is to raise the level of fear and paranoia in order to sell more books and tickets to their speaking events.

33 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:26:02am

re: #25 Jadespring

Yeah. Just read the comments on that article. Bleh.

I didn't do that but I am not surprised at all. Mr. Khan seems to be a well intentioned man but I think he's really naive about how rampant intolerance of Muslims is in the conservative movement.

34 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:26:18am

re: #26 ralphieboy

Bush was reasonable on two things: immigration reform and dealing with Islam. Shame he punted nearly everything else.

two things turned me against Bush...his immigration 'reform' and his shameful delay in slamming Iraq with more troops, a full 18mo before he finally did....he copped out to the peaceniks and it cost us priceless lives....he choked

35 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:26:29am

Who'd a thunk pandering to crazies could possibly backfire????

36 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:26:40am

re: #19 researchok

Ayaan Hirsi Ali at CPAC

There was a time that I held Bridgette Gabriel, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Nonie Darwish in high regard. They lived through radical Islam and came out to denounce it.

But the other thing these 3 women did was leave Islam. They are not moderate anythings. They abandoned the religion and gave fuel to the people who said (like me) that it should be reformed not eliminated.

I admit now my ignorance about them at the time, but they are not reformers and I thought they were.

37 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:26:54am

re: #31 Stanley Sea

That article by Pipes is the worst ever on Norquist. Basically libel.

Yeah. Notice the year it was written: 2005. This has been going on for a while. If I remember correctly there still remains a conspiracy regarding "the Muslim Brotherhood" having infiltrated the Pentagon.

38 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:27:08am

re: #17 Gus 802

CPAC is certainly not my gig. But, I think it's pretty creepy to show up at CPAC only to insult and slander it "from within". This happens every year. Some of the disgruntled right wingers show up at CPAC only to complain and talk about "re-inventing" CPAC. Here we have Gaffney showing up spreading paranoid "rumors" on Grover Norquist.

Daniel Pipes gets into the act.

They're all nuts.

That article indicates that Pipes was in at the beginning of the act. It was written in 2005.

39 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:27:10am

re: #32 Gus 802

I like to leave the "counter Jihad movement" to the CIA, FBI, Homeland Security and the DOD. Certainly not a bunch of keyboard pounding loners sitting in front of there computer every day writing a bunch of pablum for their chair force readership. The reality is that they never, not once, have done anything to counter the "Jihadist movement". The primary goal of the more notorious is to raise the level of fear and paranoia in order to sell more books and tickets to their speaking events.

nice one
$$$

40 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:28:21am

re: #34 albusteve

two things turned me against Bush...his immigration 'reform' and his shameful delay in slamming Iraq with more troops, a full 18mo before he finally did...he copped out to the peaceniks and it cost us priceless lives...he choked

One-size-fits-all solution to both problems: "If it's brown, shoot it down!"

/

41 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:29:56am

re: #38 Jadespring

That article indicates that Pipes was in at the beginning of the act. It was written in 2005.

Which was 6 years ago. Damn, Norquist is sure taking his time to start the secret "CPAC calaphite"! Perhaps Norqust is "the 12th Imam"?

//

42 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:31:34am

re: #41 Gus 802

Which was 6 years ago. Damn, Norquist is sure taking his time to start the secret "CPAC calaphite"! Perhaps Norqust is "the 12th Imam"?

//

iMam, your iCaliphate brought to you by Apple.

43 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:33:21am

Anti-Jihad currently de facto also means anti-anti-Jihad. Because by their lunacy they have ruined the cause that, while is noble in itself - protesting against the abuses of the political Islam.

44 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:33:44am

re: #42 Varek Raith

iMam, your iCaliphate brought to you by Apple.

Now with iSharia © and iDhimmi ©.

Buy now and get the additional Apple app: iThorazine ©.

/

45 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:33:50am

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

(uh, strike "while".)

46 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:34:53am

re: #42 Varek Raith

iMam, your iCaliphate brought to you by Apple.

ROFL! Steve Jobs! Oh yea, I can see it. He's secretly sponsored by the Brothers. Yep. On the take with Cheney, is what I hear.

47 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:34:56am

re: #44 Gus 802

Now with iSharia © and iDhimmi ©.

Buy now and get the additional Apple app: iThorazine ©.

/

Shariahza!

48 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:35:23am

Okay TV news talking heads. It might be good at this point to STOP talking so much about what's going to happen in Egypt and look at what's happening right now.

Seriously you are looking like idiots. Especially when you talk about military and gov't controlled businesses and pondering their control over people when there's many strikes going on at said businesses, including a major bank right now and you're not talking about it at all. Heck there's police protesting their higher ups today.

49 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:35:25am

Kabobs will turn you in to a soldier for jihad. But they are so delicious.

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:35:27am

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Anti-Jihad currently de facto also means anti-anti-Jihad. Because by their lunacy they have ruined the cause that, while is noble in itself - protesting against the abuses of the political Islam.

Sorry, but the threat lurks behind every minaret built on US soil, we cannot be too careful. No Sharia law in Oklahoma!!!

/

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:35:29am

re: #31 Stanley Sea

That article by Pipes is the worst ever on Norquist. Basically libel.

That's really creepy.

Pipes used to have some cred with me. The last year has pretty much blown that.

I hate to break it to these fools, but THERE ARE LOTS OF MUSLIM WOMEN OUT THERE MARRIED TO NON-MUSLIM MEN. In the real world, as opposed to the world of 'what Muslim law says', this does happen.

52 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:36:25am

It's been a while since I've checked up on the EDL...
EDL - NOT IN MY NAME SAYS HERO

A hero Marine has slammed far- right extremists who claim they will be marching in his name at an anti-Muslim demonstration.

The English Defence League say they will parade on behalf of George Cross winner Matt Croucher in Birmingham next month.


They claim to be outraged after Muslim councillors failed to join in a standing ovation for the Royal Marines Reserve.


Matt was awarded the gong after throwing himself on a grenade to save his pals in Afghanistan.


He said: “They won’t be marching in my name and I won’t be joining them.


PAEDO RAP FOR EDL LEADER


Lennon, also known as Tommy Robinson, backed the group’s founder member Richard Price, 41, after he was convicted of child porn charges.


Officers found the sick snaps at his home after he was arrested for breaking police lines during an EDL rally. He was later put on the Sex Offenders’ Register after admitting downloading the images.

Doesn't look like things are going any better for them on the other side of the pond.

53 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:36:38am

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Kabobs will turn you in to a soldier for jihad. But they are so delicious.


If I had to choose beween Islam/kebab and Christianity/IHOP, I know which side I'd be on...

54 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:36:42am
55 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:37:16am

re: #53 ralphieboy

If I had to choose beween Islam/kebab and Christianity/IHOP, I know which side I'd be on...

Pizza.

56 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:37:18am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

That's really creepy.

Pipes used to have some cred with me. The last year has pretty much blown that.

I hate to break it to these fools, but THERE ARE LOTS OF MUSLIM WOMEN OUT THERE MARRIED TO NON-MUSLIM MEN. In the real world, as opposed to the world of 'what Muslim law says', this does happen.

Lots of Muslim men married to non-Muslim women too. :)

57 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:37:23am

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Good. Mr. Croucher won't be their Horst Wessel.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:38:34am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

That's really creepy.

Pipes used to have some cred with me. The last year has pretty much blown that.

I hate to break it to these fools, but THERE ARE LOTS OF MUSLIM WOMEN OUT THERE MARRIED TO NON-MUSLIM MEN. In the real world, as opposed to the world of 'what Muslim law says', this does happen.

Pipes used to be very credible scholar IMHO. But how can he continue to be after his "Obama Muslim" articles?

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:39:44am

re: #52 Killgore Trout

It's been a while since I've checked up on the EDL...
EDL - NOT IN MY NAME SAYS HERO


PAEDO RAP FOR EDL LEADER

Doesn't look like things are going any better for them on the other side of the pond.

Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, BTW, trashed the guys who didn't stand for him. Both her grandfathers fought for Britain during the war, and she is quite proud of that.

BTW, why is Baroness Warsi not more frequently held up as an example of a moderate Muslim? Is it because she's a Tory?

60 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:39:46am

M-M-My sharia.

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:40:38am

re: #55 Varek Raith

Pizza.

Just a hypothetical case there, thank God it's the Roman Catholic Church...

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:40:55am

re: #56 Jadespring

Lots of Muslim men married to non-Muslim women too. :)

Suleiman the Magnificent springs to mind, but actually, Roxelana converted before they actually got hitched.

63 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:41:05am

Fucking anti-Jihadists, how do they work?

64 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:41:50am

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

Suleiman the Magnificent springs to mind, but actually, Roxelana converted before they actually got hitched.

I was just thinking of people I actually know. :)

65 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:42:08am

re: #63 BigPapa

Fucking anti-Jihadists, how do they work?


"The enemy of my enemy is also my friend"?

66 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:42:33am

re: #63 BigPapa

Fucking anti-Jihadists, how do they work?

pull the little string in back

67 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:42:48am

re: #3 ralphieboy

"Muslims are not able to be moderate — or they are speaking against what is written in the Koran.”

These could be the words of a fundamentalist Islamist cleric - or Pam Geller.

Funny how warped minds think alike

It's kind of like he defines moderate and liberal Muslims out of existence. If they don't follow every jot and tittle, they're not real Muslims...

68 Alexzander  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:42:58am

Just saw this on Reddit (I know I know):

Venn Diagram Comparing the GOP and Muslim Brotherhood

69 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:42:58am

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

Pipes used to be very credible scholar IMHO. But how can he continue to be after his "Obama Muslim" articles?

Same with VDH. Both are certainly not getting the audiences they used to get. VDH has heightened his ODS for his readership.

70 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:45:18am

re: #67 Sergey Romanov

It's kind of like he defines moderate and liberal Muslims out of existence. If they don't follow every jot and tittle, they're not real Muslims...

As others have pointed out in this thread, it is how they define True Christians as well.

71 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:46:04am

re: #69 Gus 802

Same with VDH. Both are certainly not getting the audiences they used to get. VDH has heightened his ODS for his readership.

VDH is a terrific author and he has some very smart stuff to say, but you are right about his ODH...a real bummer, he picks away at some really fringe shit and it's not beneath him....too bad

72 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:46:37am

re: #70 ralphieboy

Well, I just marvel at the catch-22 situation. The Muslims are a problem but the solution is not making them more moderate because it's not possible by def.

73 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:47:25am

re: #70 ralphieboy

As others have pointed out in this thread, it is how they define True Christians as well.

It's also how they define RINOs vs "real" Republicans. This is how they operate. It's all black and white.

74 justaminute  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:47:45am

I know a lot of married people.

75 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:49:21am

re: #72 Sergey Romanov

Well, I just marvel at the catch-22 situation. The Muslims are a problem but the solution is not making them more moderate because it's not possible by def.

which leaves one with the notion that the solution is to remove Muslims from the equation....so, ah, how do you do that?

76 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:49:30am

re: #72 Sergey Romanov

Well, I just marvel at the catch-22 situation. The Muslims are a problem but the solution is not making them more moderate because it's not possible by def.


Which means that the only solution remaining to them is the one proposed by Ann Coulter: "We should invade them, kill their leaders and convert them all to Christianity".

77 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:49:32am

re: #71 albusteve

VDH is a terrific author and he has some very smart stuff to say, but you are right about his ODH...a real bummer, he picks away at some really fringe shit and it's not beneath him...too bad

With regards to Jihadism, Hitchens has remained consistent and very worthy of respect. He's never really lost face in my mind even though I don't agree with him 101 percent of the time.

78 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:49:54am

re: #75 albusteve

which leaves one with the notion that the solution is to remove Muslims from the equation...so, ah, how do you do that?

Perpetual war.

79 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:51:10am

re: #77 Gus 802

With regards to Jihadism, Hitchens has remained consistent and very worthy of respect. He's never really lost face in my mind even though I don't agree with him 101 percent of the time.

and he's a really fun guy to listen to....like he's down at the saloon yacking away

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:51:25am

re: #76 ralphieboy

Which means that the only solution remaining to them is the one proposed by Ann Coulter: "We should invade them, kill their leaders and convert them all to Christianity".

And the gays should support us while we do this! Why don't they?

81 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:52:24am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

And the gays should support us while we do this! Why don't they?


Becasue they are chickensh*ts who don't want to get drafted to serve?

82 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:53:08am

re: #79 albusteve

and he's a really fun guy to listen to...like he's down at the saloon yacking away

Not anymore. When Hitchens finally leaves us it will truly be a sad day.

83 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:53:19am

re: #78 Varek Raith

Perpetual war.

pifft!...we should stay out of ME affairs and invade France instead....liberate them from themselves

85 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:54:01am

re: #83 albusteve

pifft!...we should stay out of ME affairs and invade France instead...liberate them from themselves

Lol

86 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:54:22am

re: #82 Gus 802

Not anymore. When Hitchens finally leaves us it will truly be a sad day.

yeah, when he sees a spade, he calls it

87 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:54:38am

re: #68 Alexzander

Just saw this on Reddit (I know I know):

Venn Diagram Comparing the GOP and Muslim Brotherhood

LOL!

88 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:54:46am

Well I suppose if I sit and think about it I can relate somewhat. I've run into people who make negative assumptions and think crap about me because of who I married. Enough that I'm cautious enough that I don't mention it at all with new people I meet until I either get to know them or they know me. It became more of issue after an experience with someone who came inside my house to do some work and grew visibly uncomfortable when he figured out from things like pictures who we were.

Bigotry sucks. It shouldn't be that way.

89 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:56:36am

Speaking of Hitchens, my first real introduction to him was a debate he had with George Galloway. Hitchens was great in that.

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:57:00am

BTW, last time I checked, Ayaan Hirsi Ali was quite rational. She even was for prohibiting Vlaams Belang. While I would expect some harsh words from her regarding Islam, considering her history, has she really jumped the shark? Just because she talked at that panel doesn't seal it for me.

91 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:58:11am

Hitch...
[Link: www.mediabistro.com...]

92 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 11:58:39am

The thing that's infuriating and dangerous about all of this is because it's basically grassroots bigotry. After 9/11, we were all screaming for the moderate Muslims to speak out. After the cartoon rioting, we said, "Where are the moderates?" I was one of those people.

Since no one person really appeared, the likes of Spencer and Geller concluded they don't exist, but that's wrong. They do exist, but they live in our neighborhoods and communities. They are us. Just normal folks.

Our places of worship should be sponsoring more interfaith gatherings, dances, walks, bake-offs, whatever. Maybe it's not as romantic and glamorous and CPAC with all its glory, but I think it's the only thing to do if we ever hope to understand each other.

93 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:01:39pm

re: #88 Jadespring

Well I suppose if I sit and think about it I can relate somewhat. I've run into people who make negative assumptions and think crap about me because of who I married. Enough that I'm cautious enough that I don't mention it at all with new people I meet until I either get to know them or they know me. It became more of issue after an experience with someone who came inside my house to do some work and grew visibly uncomfortable when he figured out from things like pictures who we were.

Bigotry sucks. It shouldn't be that way.

OTOH, my mixed race niece has experienced some racism and she confronts it head on, bragging that those people are just jealous of her killer complexion and too cool hair!....plus she's probably close to genius

94 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:01:47pm

re: #92 marjoriemoon

"Our places of worship should be sponsoring more interfaith gatherings, dances, walks, bake-offs, whatever. Maybe it's not as romantic and glamorous and CPAC with all its glory, but I think it's the only thing to do if we ever hope to understand each other."

You mean they should be opening comunity centers like Park 51?

95 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:03:20pm

re: #88 Jadespring

We have a lesbian in our office who recently started working with us. She did the exact opposite. She's totally out there and talked about her wife and daughter incessantly. I think she was nervous about maybe not being accepted so figured she'd throw it on the table for all to see.

It didn't make a difference to anyone. We liked her because we like HER. Thank goodness because if she was a bitch, than she probably would have said we were anti-gay!

Such is life in the big city. You be who you are and everyone will adore you as much as we do :)

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:03:20pm

re: #92 marjoriemoon

The thing that's infuriating and dangerous about all of this is because it's basically grassroots bigotry. After 9/11, we were all screaming for the moderate Muslims to speak out. After the cartoon rioting, we said, "Where are the moderates?" I was one of those people.

Since no one person really appeared, the likes of Spencer and Geller concluded they don't exist, but that's wrong. They do exist, but they live in our neighborhoods and communities. They are us. Just normal folks.

Our places of worship should be sponsoring more interfaith gatherings, dances, walks, bake-offs, whatever. Maybe it's not as romantic and glamorous and CPAC with all its glory, but I think it's the only thing to do if we ever hope to understand each other.

Also, the moderates who have emerged have been totally ignored by these people. Now, I don't know if Irshad Manji doesn't do CPAC because they don't invite her, or because she wouldn't be caught dead there, or both, but I never hear her name spoken by the people KEENING for a moderate reformist Muslim voice. Maybe it's because she's a lesbian. Maybe it's because she still considers herself a Muslim. I don't know.

97 albusteve  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:04:55pm

moderate Muslims, by and large, are probably not that interested in picking up the torch and getting involved with socio/politics etc...who can blame them?....it's no big deal
BBL

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:05:18pm

re: #90 Sergey Romanov

To answer my own question: no. She's no longer rational. It's a pity. She's been looking into the abyss for too long I guess.

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

99 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:05:42pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, the moderates who have emerged have been totally ignored by these people. Now, I don't know if Irshad Manji doesn't do CPAC because they don't invite her, or because she wouldn't be caught dead there, or both, but I never hear her name spoken by the people KEENING for a moderate reformist Muslim voice. Maybe it's because she's a lesbian. Maybe it's because she still considers herself a Muslim. I don't know.

Irshad has long replaced Aayan for me. She's a remarkable woman.

100 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:09:03pm

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

To answer my own question: no. She's no longer rational. It's a pity. She's been looking into the abyss for too long I guess.

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

I think there might be another answer. This is her job now. I admit it is cynical, but there is more money in appealing to anti-Muslim bigots than being a moderate promoting reform. She has has horrible experiences and I'm glad she gave voice to them, but hanging out with these nuts is a bad move.

101 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:09:15pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

Thank goodness because if she was a bitch, than she probably would have said we were anti-gay!

102 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:09:28pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, the moderates who have emerged have been totally ignored by these people. Now, I don't know if Irshad Manji doesn't do CPAC because they don't invite her, or because she wouldn't be caught dead there, or both, but I never hear her name spoken by the people KEENING for a moderate reformist Muslim voice. Maybe it's because she's a lesbian. Maybe it's because she still considers herself a Muslim. I don't know.

Wait, Irshad's not a Republican though, is she? (please please please say no)

103 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:10:00pm

re: #101 ozbloke

I get the feeling you weren't enamored with my choice of words. Call my psychic.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:10:16pm

re: #102 marjoriemoon

Wait, Irshad's not a Republican though, is she? (please please please say no)

I don't think so. For one thing, she's Canadian.

105 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:10:37pm

re: #102 marjoriemoon

Wait, Irshad's not a Republican though, is she? (please please please say no)

Even if she was, she's a lesbian and a practicing Muslim so she would not be welcome at CPAC.

106 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:10:48pm

re: #100 moderatelyradicalliberal

It would make it worse, not better.

107 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:11:28pm

re: #103 marjoriemoon

I get the feeling you weren't enamored with my choice of words. Call my psychic.

My apologies, best I could do was to say nothing.
We can all generalize.

108 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:11:55pm

re: #106 Sergey Romanov

It would make it worse, not better.

True, but for some people what starts as a cause eventually becomes a racket.

109 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:12:00pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think so. For one thing, she's Canadian.

I did not know that! I thought she lived in New York. Doesn't she teach there?

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:14:00pm

re: #109 marjoriemoon

I did not know that! I thought she lived in New York. Doesn't she teach there?

She may wlive in the States now, but she grew up in British Colombia.

111 theheat  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:14:07pm

CPAC's been a celebration of bigotry, racism, Jesus, creationism, homophobia, historical revisionism, the war against science, and some more Jesus. For anyone - at all - to act as though one person or group has spoiled it is like arguing about the lunch buffet on a runaway train as it heads over the cliff.

A collection of loons. A freak show under glass. The worst of the worst.

The only way to fix the GOP and CPAC is nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

112 justaminute  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:14:26pm

We had some remodeling work done on our house two weeks ago and the contractor and his helper were Dittoheads and Fox followers. It was hilarious. This is Oklahoma after all. I loved watching their faces when they observed the interactions of an obviously Oklahoma gal married to a Muslim "furriner.' My husband and I were having a quick discussion about how much I had paid for a bathroom mirror, and they were just standing beside us and I could not help but say"Excuse us, we are just conducting some 'Sharia' here." The look on their faces made my husband and I crack up. When they saw my daughter's 6'7" black boyfriend it sealed the deal. After 2 weeks they left with a whole new attitude. Two down a couple of million to go.

113 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:15:12pm

re: #108 moderatelyradicalliberal

True, but for some people what starts as a cause eventually becomes a racket.

I think it's more probable that he traumatic experiences have pushed her to extremes. I maybe naive here, but I also think that if the left embraced her, this might not have happened. Instead she was welcomed by the right and so it goes.

114 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:15:56pm

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

To answer my own question: no. She's no longer rational. It's a pity. She's been looking into the abyss for too long I guess.

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

Wow. I hadn't seen that interview with Hirsi Ali before. Disappointing, but not surprising.

115 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:16:43pm

The most crazy thing you hear from anti Muslim people is when they start talking about the religion itself. They clearly have no idea what the hell they're talking about. The funniest are the people who freak out about the word Allah. Or the people who act like Islam is some kind of pagan religion. One of my favorite Daily Show sketches was when Aasif Mendivi went to Tennessee regarding the mosque controversy there.

116 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:17:22pm

re: #111 theheat

CPAC's been a celebration of bigotry, racism, Jesus, creationism, homophobia, historical revisionism, the war against science, and some more Jesus. For anyone - at all - to act as though one person or group has spoiled it is like arguing about the lunch buffet on a runaway train as it heads over the cliff.

A collection of loons. A freak show under glass. The worst of the worst.

The only way to fix the GOP and CPAC is nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I like Jesus and he does not deserve to be associated with any of the things you mentioned.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi

Oh and Aliens!

117 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:17:33pm

re: #93 albusteve

re: #95 marjoriemoon


I don't hide it. Realized that my comments might have come off that way.
I'm proud of who he is. :) My comment was more about the types of reactions I do get when it comes to light, enough that sometimes I'm just cautious at introducing it right off. It's also coupled by the fact that he to most eyes is 'passable' as a white guy. Interesting though that his people recognize who he is right away. I've had people who were fine when they thought 'just normal white guy' get all weird when they find out that it's not the case, like the guy who came into the house to work. He was perfectly fine in the driveway.

Silver lining though is that it is easy to find out who is really bigoted and racist. In mixed company people tend to be nice and good. If they think they're safe in a non-mixed crowd and the nasty comes out. There have been several occassions where bigoted comments have been made in my presence and I will gladly speak up. The best is 'Really? Glad to know how you really feel about my husband." Them all confused. "What are you talking about?" Me: "My husband he's XXXX"

I have no problem admitting that I thoroughly enjoy the squirming and the attempted mea culpas.

118 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:18:38pm
Embarrasses CPAC

Is this possible?

119 prairiefire  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:19:20pm

re: #114 Charles

Wow. I hadn't seen that interview with Hirsi Ali before. Disappointing, but not surprising.

It is disappointing.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:20:29pm

re: #115 HappyWarrior

ALAH WAS TEH MOOON GOD!

/

121 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:22:15pm

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

ALAH WAS TEH MOOON GOD!

/

Which is even more frightening because we don't know how the moon got there.

//

122 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:23:15pm

Check out the top thread at Jihad Watch: Miracle on West 4th Street

Okay, we're busted. "Roland Shirk" really is just another name used by Robert Spencer. Ditto "Hugh Fitzgerald."
...
Yes, Robert Spencer is Roland Shirk and Hugh Fitzgerald.


Is that sarcasm or did Robert Spencer get busted for sock puppetry? I can't tell.

123 prairiefire  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:23:49pm

re: #117 Jadespring

My husband and I get hard stares and my kids really are scrutinized. "Well, looky there. That's what you get when you put a white woman with an oriental man."
Meh. Time goes by and I really don't think about it as much.
Besides, my kids are gorgeous.

124 lostlakehiker  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:24:37pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

And I hate to be the bearer of bad news to Mr. Khan, people like Geller/Spencer aren't fringe minorities, they're a large and vocal part of the conservative movement. When you have elected officials echoing their rhetoric then you have a serious problem.

According to Geller and Spencer, the whole CPAC has gone to the dogs, and has been taken over by bleeding heart liberals such as Ron Paul. There's no room left for REAL conservatives like Geller and Spencer. By their lights, they've been marginalized and shoved to the fringe.

Consider the implications: Ron Paul is so far out that he polls single digits in analog world national Republican contests. And Geller and Spencer, within that pool, find themselves way out on the fringe.

They're on the fringe of the fringe.

125 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:24:38pm

CPAC -

Cretinous Paulian Apologists for the Caliphate!

/

126 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:25:01pm

re: #121 moderatelyradicalliberal

Which is even more frightening because we don't know how the moon got there.

//

Seriously though the notion that Islam is pagan while Christianity is not is funny, considering all the Saints, all the icons, statues, and holy body parts in Christianity, as well at the idea of Trinity and of God in human body. It's not for nothing that Maimonides thought that while Christianity was idolatry, Islam wasn't.

127 What, me worry?  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:25:35pm

re: #117 Jadespring

Whether we like it or not, minorities are their own ambassadors. Inter-racial couples included. I think Dr. King talked about this also. People will definitely judge so we have to always keep our best foot forward. And if they judge us poorly after that, than we can only be consoled that it is their own prejudice and not anything we have done.

I still get the same thing, btw, with some folks when they find out I'm Jewish.

128 Kragar  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:25:53pm

re: #125 karmic_inquisitor

CPAC -

Cretinous Paulian Apologists for the Caliphate!

/

Conservative Pundits Are Crazy.

129 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:26:08pm

re: #118 negativ

Is this possible?

Well, in addition to these anti-Muslim loons, we also have white supremacists, the John Birch Society, Birthers, lots of rabidly anti-gay groups, religious fanatics, and of course, the Paulians.

CPAC itself is beyond being embarrassed -- but if there are any rational conservatives left, they must be.

130 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:26:16pm

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

To answer my own question: no. She's no longer rational. It's a pity. She's been looking into the abyss for too long I guess.

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

Yes. Looks like she's calling to "amend" the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution there.

131 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:26:58pm

Speaking of moderate Islam.

Iman was just interviewed on CNN.

I'm guessing to these people though she's would be one of the "not really Muslim, Muslims. "

132 prairiefire  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:27:41pm

re: #131 Jadespring

Speaking of moderate Islam.

Iman was just interviewed on CNN.

I'm guessing to these people though she's would be one of the "not really Muslim, Muslims. "

She's "Westernized."/

133 Kragar  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:28:44pm

re: #131 Jadespring

Speaking of moderate Islam.

Iman was just interviewed on CNN.

I'm guessing to these people though she's would be one of the "not really Muslim, Muslims. "

Taqiyya.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:29:28pm

re: #115 HappyWarrior

The most crazy thing you hear from anti Muslim people is when they start talking about the religion itself. They clearly have no idea what the hell they're talking about. The funniest are the people who freak out about the word Allah. Or the people who act like Islam is some kind of pagan religion. One of my favorite Daily Show sketches was when Aasif Mendivi went to Tennessee regarding the mosque controversy there.

The 'moon god' thing was very popular for a long time, but seems to be losing traction.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:30:47pm

re: #116 moderatelyradicalliberal

I like Jesus and he does not deserve to be associated with any of the things you mentioned.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi

Oh and Aliens!

I'm now having a very funny image of Jesus trying to enjoy himself at CPAC.

If I knew how to do video, I'd do a video.

136 lostlakehiker  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:31:10pm

re: #24 moderatelyradicalliberal

These guys picked the wrong week for their anti-Muslim bigotry. We've watched Muslims fight a successful, non-violent movement for freedom for three weeks now. No shouts of 'death the America' and no Israeli flags being burned and no pro-jihad chants either.

The story that overshadowed this pathetic gathering makes everything they are saying appear to be wrong. But, they can't let reality get in the way of their hatred now can they?

The thing about reality is, you don't get the option to let, or not let, it do what it does. Reality is.

And these last few weeks have been a huge feather in the cap of Dar al Islam. If this revolution can hold to its course and not get hijacked, Egypt will be the attractive face of a side of Islam that's been somewhat eclipsed by the terrible events of the last decades.

137 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:32:37pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm now having a very funny image of Jesus trying to enjoy himself at CPAC.

If I knew how to do video, I'd do a video.

Long haired, bearded new age(at his time) religious guy at CPAC. THat would be fun. The amusing thing for me and I am not someone who tries to paint Christ as a Marxist either is those who try to equate Christianity and Capitalism together. Always thought that was silly considering that for much of its existence, capitalism wasn't even invented. Wealth of Nations was written in 1776.

138 Kragar  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:32:59pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm now having a very funny image of Jesus trying to enjoy himself at CPAC.

If I knew how to do video, I'd do a video.

Saw a bumpersticker "I love Jesus, but I hate his Fan Club."

139 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:33:20pm

It's almost pathetic and sad to watch these clowns fumble for rationalizations as to why even the loonier conservatives, never mind the center right, are tossing them in the gutter like a used condom.

140 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:33:23pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Long haired, bearded new age(at his time) religious guy at CPAC. THat would be fun. The amusing thing for me and I am not someone who tries to paint Christ as a Marxist either is those who try to equate Christianity and Capitalism together. Always thought that was silly considering that for much of its existence, capitalism wasn't even invented. Wealth of Nations was written in 1776.

He would be brown too.

141 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:33:50pm

re: #140 Jadespring

He would be brown too.

Yes, that too.

142 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:34:16pm

If you think about it. Calling to amend the 1st Amendment with regards to Islam because of Jihadism during these times would be like calling to amend it during the 1950s or the Cold War and its application to atheism (as it was defined as Soviet atheism during those times). Or perhaps Shintoism during WWII. This is all rather simplistic and reactionary. It's almost as though these reactionaries think "ban Islam in the Western world and Jihadism will magically disappear."

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:34:51pm

re: #126 Sergey Romanov

Seriously though the notion that Islam is pagan while Christianity is not is funny, considering all the Saints, all the icons, statues, and holy body parts in Christianity, as well at the idea of Trinity and of God in human body. It's not for nothing that Maimonides thought that while Christianity was idolatry, Islam wasn't.

The Trinity is just one of those concepts that just tends to leave Jews and Muslims saying 'say WHAT?'. And I say that as a Jew with Catholic family.

144 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:36:33pm

FWIW CPAC had cred with Presidential hopefulls testing the water before the Paulians started stacking the the straw poll. Still a place where hopefuls pay a visit but it isn't like policy gets made there. Nutty events get avoided by longterm legislators when they are in majority - no upside. But you hug the nutters when you are in the minority.

145 recusancy  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:36:43pm
146 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:37:49pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

The Trinity is just one of those concepts that just tends to leave Jews and Muslims saying 'say WHAT?'. And I say that as a Jew with Catholic family.

The Trinity is a concept that leave a lot of Christians saying 'Say what?' when they really start thinking about what it means beyond a superficial understanding and recognition. No across the board acceptance of the theology either.

147 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:38:50pm

re: #145 recusancy

Meanwhile Boehner, Like Cantor, Refuses To Repudiate Birther Conspiracy Theories

These days, when Mr. Boehner tosses in his dreams, he's not running from Democrats.

148 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:39:01pm

Jesus at CPAC would lecture everyone on the second commandment. They'd respond by lecturing him on the second amendment. Cosmic symmetry.

149 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:40:39pm

Jesus at CPAC would be "You know when I said no Gods other than me, I didn't mean no Gods other than me except Ronald Reagan."

150 bratwurst  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:41:49pm

re: #145 recusancy

Meanwhile Boehner, Like Cantor, Refuses To Repudiate Birther Conspiracy Theories

Can't be alienating their base!

151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:42:41pm

re: #148 karmic_inquisitor

I kind of think he'd walk around from person to person and simply say, "What part of 'love your enemies' are you not able to understand?" over and over and over.

152 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:43:41pm

They refuse to repudiate the birhters because they know they will be called RINOs. Simply pathetic if you ask me.

153 calochortus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:44:37pm

re: #123 prairiefire

My husband and I get hard stares and my kids really are scrutinized. "Well, looky there. That's what you get when you put a white woman with an oriental man."
Meh. Time goes by and I really don't think about it as much.
Besides, my kids are gorgeous.

Why, of course your kids are gorgeous-that was a compliment! I trust gorgeous is what you get when you put a white woman with an oriental man, 'cause you are describing my future grandchildren. (And my daughter loves her Asian last name. It confuses the heck out of people. ;-) )

154 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:45:14pm

Toward the end of the interview, the Speaker had this to say:
"BOEHNER: I’ve made clear what I believe the facts are."

This is in reference to his belief that if Obama has said he's a Christian and a citizen - and Boehner believes him - then it's a settled fact for him.

So to Boehner, it's not up to debate as to the faith or citizenship of Obama.
Could he have been more strident in his refutation of the conspiracies? Sure.
but in my opinion, he's not endorsing them either.

He's being a typical politician.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:45:43pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Long haired, bearded new age(at his time) religious guy at CPAC. THat would be fun. The amusing thing for me and I am not someone who tries to paint Christ as a Marxist either is those who try to equate Christianity and Capitalism together. Always thought that was silly considering that for much of its existence, capitalism wasn't even invented. Wealth of Nations was written in 1776.

Jesus examines the bumper stickers, and picks out the ones he is referenced on as souvenirs.

Jesus hangs out with GOProud, until he is spotted and dragged away by upset fundamentalists.

Jesus attends a cocktail party, and is unable to eat any of the nibbles except for the potato chips, which are a novelty. Jesus turns other canapes into potato chips.

Jesus sits attentively through one of diLorenzo's rants about Lincoln. After the talk, he comes up front and casts a demon out of diLorenzo.

I can see this being extremely fun.

156 Gus  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:45:43pm

Back later.

157 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:47:30pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Jesus examines the bumper stickers, and picks out the ones he is referenced on as souvenirs.

Jesus hangs out with GOProud, until he is spotted and dragged away by upset fundamentalists.

Jesus attends a cocktail party, and is unable to eat any of the nibbles except for the potato chips, which are a novelty. Jesus turns other canapes into potato chips.

Jesus sits attentively through one of diLorenzo's rants about Lincoln. After the talk, he comes up front and casts a demon out of diLorenzo.

I can see this being extremely fun.

Jesus gets his buddy, Matt from the IRS, into the hall on a visitor's pass.

158 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:48:26pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Jesus examines the bumper stickers, and picks out the ones he is referenced on as souvenirs.

Jesus hangs out with GOProud, until he is spotted and dragged away by upset fundamentalists.

Jesus attends a cocktail party, and is unable to eat any of the nibbles except for the potato chips, which are a novelty. Jesus turns other canapes into potato chips.

Jesus sits attentively through one of diLorenzo's rants about Lincoln. After the talk, he comes up front and casts a demon out of diLorenzo.

I can see this being extremely fun.

Makes me wish I had artistic and computer skill talent to make such a thing.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:49:21pm

Gotta go. Zionist activist training awaits.

160 zora  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:49:55pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Jesus examines the bumper stickers, and picks out the ones he is referenced on as souvenirs.

Jesus hangs out with GOProud, until he is spotted and dragged away by upset fundamentalists.

Jesus attends a cocktail party, and is unable to eat any of the nibbles except for the potato chips, which are a novelty. Jesus turns other canapes into potato chips.

Jesus sits attentively through one of diLorenzo's rants about Lincoln. After the talk, he comes up front and casts a demon out of diLorenzo.

I can see this being extremely fun.

speaking of casting out demons. has bobby jindal ever been to cpac? i know he wasn't there this year. if only obama had performed an exorcism at some point in his life. then he'd have christian street cred and could have avoided all the secret muslim talk.

161 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:51:03pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

The Trinity is just one of those concepts that just tends to leave Jews and Muslims saying 'say WHAT?'. And I say that as a Jew with Catholic family.

I sympathize with them as well as Unitarians. I find it useful as a metaphysical metaphor but don't think it reflects reality any more or less than any other human construct of the divine can. Some of the concepts in Kabbala can be nearly as "Huh???" inducing example & I would imagine that there are mystical branches of Islam that can do likewise. But for Christians it is upfront & in our faces - a cross to bear, as it were...

162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:52:08pm

re: #123 prairiefire

My niece (Laura, a freakin' AIR FORCE CAPTAIN!) is Korean/Caucasian. My brothers gift to the family after marrying a Korean woman.

Laura is a joyous, gorgeous, funny, brilliant and brave young women. Just found out yesterday that she is supposed to return from Afghanistan in a couple of weeks. We are very proud of her.

I have a very special Hispanic/Caucasian grand nephew who brings joy to the family.

Yeah, we also have white kids. They're cool too.

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:52:30pm

re: #161 wlewisiii

Credo quia absurdum.

164 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:53:16pm

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Or the people who act like Islam is some kind of pagan religion.

You know what really bugs me? It's the people who act like the Christian "narrative" (how I hate that word!) was adapted entirely from Greek mythology and Mediterranean folklore. They act as if Easter is some sort of derivative of the pagan celebrations of the Spring equinox, and they go on to claim a lot of nonsense about ancient folkloric traditions about gods -- born to virgin mothers -- who later died and then came back to life after a while. There is simply no way that early people whose very survival depended on noticing patterns of freezing, thawing, fertility, birth, and death could ever have invented an elaborate system enforcing those ideas. Tide comes in, tide goes out.

165 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:53:59pm

re: #163 Sergey Romanov

Credo quia absurdum.

Pretty much. That was Paul's answer in Corinthians after all.

166 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:54:23pm

re: #105 moderatelyradicalliberal

Even if she was, she's a lesbian and a practicing Muslim so she would not be welcome at CPAC.

Lesbian, Muslim, and from Canuckistan.

Three strikes.

167 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:55:43pm

I just wanted to bring I point I just thought about in relation to the unrest in the Middle East. I've been seeing a few people talk about Iran. However, I get the feeling that things in Iran would be more bloody than in Egypt or Tunisia. For one, the Revolutionary Guard holds much of the economy, and would not give that up. Combined with the fact that they are more fanatical the regular military (Yes, there are two militaries in Iran), and I see a recipe for bad things, maybe even Civil War. This would undoubtably cause some sort of Chain reaction in both Syria and Lebanon, though I am not sure what.

Turkey is about the only nation in the region that will not suffer any effects from the recent instability.

168 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:55:53pm

There was a real interesting article about increasing bi-racial identity awareness that a friend of mine posted on facebook. Real interested stuff. I don't have any bi-racial relatives but I do have two cousins who married British men and their kids are great.

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:56:12pm

re: #164 negativ

re: #115 HappyWarrior

You know what really bugs me? It's the people who act like the Christian "narrative" (how I hate that word!) was adapted entirely from Greek mythology and Mediterranean folklore. They act as if Easter is some sort of derivative of the pagan celebrations of the Spring equinox, and they go on to claim a lot of nonsense about ancient folkloric traditions about gods -- born to virgin mothers -- who later died and then came back to life after a while. There is simply no way that early people whose very survival depended on noticing patterns of freezing, thawing, fertility, birth, and death could ever have invented an elaborate system enforcing those ideas. Tide comes in, tide goes out.

That is quite often repeated in atheistic circles, unfortunately. While there are probably grains of truth in some of those claims (dying and rising gods, etc.), people like Acharya S take this to idiotic extremes.

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:57:17pm

re: #165 wlewisiii

You sure it was Paul?

171 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 12:58:52pm

re: #117 Jadespring

re: #95 marjoriemoon

I don't hide it. Realized that my comments might have come off that way.
I'm proud of who he is. :) My comment was more about the types of reactions I do get when it comes to light, enough that sometimes I'm just cautious at introducing it right off. It's also coupled by the fact that he to most eyes is 'passable' as a white guy. Interesting though that his people recognize who he is right away. I've had people who were fine when they thought 'just normal white guy' get all weird when they find out that it's not the case, like the guy who came into the house to work. He was perfectly fine in the driveway.

Silver lining though is that it is easy to find out who is really bigoted and racist. In mixed company people tend to be nice and good. If they think they're safe in a non-mixed crowd and the nasty comes out. There have been several occassions where bigoted comments have been made in my presence and I will gladly speak up. The best is 'Really? Glad to know how you really feel about my husband." Them all confused. "What are you talking about?" Me: "My husband he's XXX"

I have no problem admitting that I thoroughly enjoy the squirming and the attempted mea culpas.

As a man in a 'mixed-race' (I'm rolling my eyes here) marriage of some 34 years I'm in your corner and empathize with you completely.

172 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:00:43pm

re: #123 prairiefire

My husband and I get hard stares and my kids really are scrutinized. "Well, looky there. That's what you get when you put a white woman with an oriental man."
Meh. Time goes by and I really don't think about it as much.
Besides, my kids are gorgeous.

I've never met so many people in relationships colloquially called 'mixed' before. We need to organize and start a revolution.

173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:02:34pm

re: #171 b_sharp

I'm in a mixed-up marriage. Does that count for anything?

174 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:06:45pm

Okay this is really interesting. As many know there are protests planned in other countries in the mid east, one is Bahrain tomorrow. Social networking like in Egypt is playing a role.

So what does the gov't do? It gets on the social network bandwagon as well.

Here is the newly minted (about 30 mins ago) twitter feed from the Bahrain Ministry of the Interior.

[Link: twitter.com...]

They're tweeting in both english and arabic.

First tweet after announcing the launch.

moi_bahrain Ministry of Interior
Illegal rally in Karzakan 3 policemen attacked, Police had to fire 2 rubber buttons. 1st as warning shot 2nd bounced & hit a demonstrator

175 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:07:05pm

re: #173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm in a mixed-up marriage. Does that count for anything?

As much as any.

176 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:10:46pm

re: #90 Sergey Romanov

BTW, last time I checked, Ayaan Hirsi Ali was quite rational. She even was for prohibiting Vlaams Belang. While I would expect some harsh words from her regarding Islam, considering her history, has she really jumped the shark? Just because she talked at that panel doesn't seal it for me.

Have you seen her comments that essentially there are no moderate Muslims, and that anyone who thinks there are is an appeaser, and that Islam is the problem?

At one level, she's a very rational speaker, with a credibility given her life experiences, a brilliant woman (and I must say, beautiful). But there is an irrationality to her basic premise.

177 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:10:49pm

re: #175 b_sharp

Eggzackery.

178 Lidane  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:11:52pm

OT, but Henry Rollins turns 50 today. Where did the time go?

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:12:49pm

re: #173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"I wear my wedding ring on the wrong damn finger 'cause I married the wrong damn woman!"
-Robin Harris

(RIP, he was great)

180 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:15:27pm
Years ago, I renounced the so-called “anti-jihad” blogosphere when it became obvious that the bigots were taking over

I'm sure I won't be too popular for saying this, but from where I sit, the bigots took over the "anti-jihad" movement well before you renounced it, Charles.

As I see it, the anti-jihad blogosphere was steeped in bigotry from the very start. From the very start it was a distortion of valid concern about radical Islam, and it did a lot of damage to creating huge obstacles to reasoned debate about how radical Islam might best be dealt with.

I would like to hear about who was a part of the anti-jihad blogosphere from back in the day who folks here would not characterize as a flaming bigot. Perhaps Hirsi Ali? Anyone else?

181 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:16:15pm

re: #178 Lidane

Liar.

182 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:16:56pm

re: #180 Talking Point Detective

I should say who else (besides Charles of today), that was a part of the anti-jihad blogosphere from back in the day who folks here would not characterize as a flaming bigot.

183 webevintage  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:17:41pm

Sherrod is suing Andrew Breitbart

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Could not happen to a nicer guy....

184 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:19:46pm

Sanity Break anyone?

I got away yesterday to Morro Bay. Stress relief sublime.

185 engineer cat  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:20:11pm

allow me to blogwhore my buddy Culture of Truth's weekly translation of Press The Meat and other talking bobblehead fests

Gregory: so you don’t like Mubarak?

Boehner: we need to listen to people crying
out for freedom
[ starts crying ]

Gregory: I see

Boehner: they’re crying for freedom fluffy [ sobs ]

Gregory: what does worry you?

Boehner: we can’t support violent crazy radicals who don’t supports right or democracy

Gregory: we’ll get to the tea party later

Gregory: what makes you think the Egyptians are ready for democracy?

Boehner: I believe freedom and low taxes are a god-given right

Gregory: Obama didn’t see this coming!

Boehner: well nobody’s perfect

Gregory: but aren’t you terribly disappointed?

Boehner: no

Gregory: jesus fucking christ who do I have to invite on to get someone to bash Obama?!?!?

Boehner: sobs

Gregory: the tea party is mad at you

Boehner: I know! [ sniffles ]

Gregory: will you at least fulfill your pledge to cut $100 billion from the budget?

Boehner: yes whatever shuts those loons up

Gregory: will you cut critical programs and damage the recovery

Boehner: when are we going to get serious about cutting spending?

Gregory: ok get serious and cut the defense budget

Boehner: Obama’s excessive spending causes unemployment

Gregory: oh I see

Boehner: we must cut spending now!

Gregory: won’t that cause another recession?

Boehner: no cutting spending will create jobs

Gregory: how does that work?

Boehner: because businesses will see Washington get serious about the debt and hire the people their business needs

Gregory: um yeah

Boehner: After big spending under Reagan, Bush I, Bush II it’s finally time to cut spending

Gregory: so cut Social Security!

Boehner: look David you and I both want to cut Social Security but not every Americans realize it’s necessary and it’s up to you and I educate them

Gregory: I’m on it

Gregory: shouldn’t the government get out of mortgage business?

Boehner: damm right

Gregory: won’t that collapse the housing market?

Boehner: it would have before but recent experience shows that the private sector can handle the private mortgage market

Gregory: Do you believe Obama is from Kenya

Boehner: he could be

Gregory: shouldn’t you stand up to utter ignorance?

Boehner: it’s not our job to tell people to the truth - we have to listen to the American people

Gregory: interesting perspective

Boehner: look people read a lot of things it’s not our job to traffic in truth

Gregory: Is your party trying to convince people Obama is Kenyan-Muslim-Marxist

Boehner: no I’m trying to convince people he borrows-and-spends so much he is almost as bad Reagan, George Bush or George W Bush

Boehner: you say people in Washington are trying to snuff out the American dream

Boehner: right

Gregory: but you’re Speaker of the House

Boehner: technically

Gregory: Rep. Chris Lee resigned because he put a shirtless picture of himself on the Internet

Boehner: Shitless Rep in Tasteless Move

Gregory: heh

Boehner: we will not tolerate immorality in the party that does not involve passing out checks from lobbyists on the House floor

Gregory: isn’t Obama doomed?

Boehner: you have persuaded me Fluffy

Gregory: who is the front runner in the GOP race in 2012 out of Romney, Huckabee, Palin and Paul?

Boehner: good god - hopefully someone else will come forward

Gregory: what do you need in a candidate?

Boehner: someone who can spout bullshit
really skillfully

186 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:20:25pm

re: #180 Talking Point Detective

Not sure if I catch your vibe, but I would put Andrew Sullivan and Salman Rushdie as part of the anti-jihad set that weren't bigots.

since you are trying to lay down the distinctions so you can determine who the bigots are perhaps you can delineate at what point a Western liberal is a bigot when speaking out against theocratic thuggery?

187 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:21:00pm

re: #170 Sergey Romanov

You sure it was Paul?

Wiki says Tertullian paraphrased. I'd have gone with Aquinas or Newman.

188 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:21:10pm

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

To answer my own question: no. She's no longer rational. It's a pity. She's been looking into the abyss for too long I guess.

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

Yeah - I figured that if you knew more about what she's been saying, you'd see a basic underlying irrationality. Interestingly, it reminds me a bit of Buckley, in a sense.

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:22:44pm

re: #182 Talking Point Detective

What do you think of Bruce Bawer?

190 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:24:14pm

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

What do you think of Bruce Bawer?

Don't know him. I'll Google.

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:25:43pm

re: #190 Talking Point Detective

Don't know him. I'll Google.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

192 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:31:52pm

re: #170 Sergey Romanov

You sure it was Paul?

Not the quote, but the essence of the argument. As mentioned, wiki points it at Tertullian but Paul said, paraphrased, that it was folly to think of a crucified man as the divine but that folly was the faith - the Jewish people wanted wisdom and the gentiles (Greeks especially) wanted reason but Jesus wasn't either in his argument. Your quoting "Credo quia absurdum" simply reminded me of that folly.

193 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:32:27pm

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

What do you think of Bruce Bawer?

In a quick look, he looks interesting...but kind of....um... for lack of a better term, weird?

Like this paragraph:

What of America? No question, Bush’s arrogance, incompetence, inarticulateness, deafness to criticism, and tolerance of torture have (in Andrew Sullivan’s words) “managed to muddy the moral high ground against the evil of Islamism” – thereby polarizing Americans and helping alienate Europeans at a time when unity is crucial. (The U.S. military’s dismissal of desperately needed Arabic-language experts for being gay testifies to the endurance of an absurd bias that I thought, on 9/11, would fade in the face of a real and deadly foe.) In the U.S., as in Europe, politicians and journalists who should know better continue to repeat the ludicrous mantra that Islam means “peace,” jihad means “inner struggle,” and extremists are “hijacking Islam.”
194 Bob Dillon  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:35:51pm

Having spent over a decade living with, sleeping with (opposite sex), educating, training, playing and working with including spending time in a few mosques (curiosity and self education), I can report from my own personal experience there are many, many "moderate" muslims. Are there some nut cake fruit loops amongst them? Yep - we got a few as well does every other society. And "radicalized" muslims? I only was confronted by one in all that time. Granted we all have heard of others.

195 Lateralis  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:38:08pm

Where exactly is the rancid bigotry in Gaffney's comments? His comments were focused and limited to the Muslim Brotherhood.

196 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:38:49pm

re: #180 Talking Point Detective

You seem to be saying that all rational criticism of militant Islam is based on bigotry, and I strongly disagree. After the 9/11 attacks, it was a perfectly rational response to want to know more about the Islamic rationale for jihad, and that was always my main focus at LGF -- getting as much information about the subject as possible.

I've made it extremely clear that I want nothing to do with any form of bigotry, and I've been smeared and vilified all over the web as a result. I think I paid my dues on this issue, in spades, and I don't really appreciate the implication that I was a "bigot" for wanting to do what I could to push back against terrorism.

197 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:39:49pm

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thanks for the link. I wonder what he would have to say to this guy:

Muslim mayor flies flag for gays in Dutch suburb
By Alix Rijckaert (AFP) – Jun 29, 2009
SLOTERVAART, Netherlands (AFP) — A harassed gay minority in a conservative suburb in otherwise tolerant Amsterdam has found a guardian angel in the local Muslim mayor. Ahmed Marcouch, 41, is on a self-appointed mission to end homophobia in Slotervaart, just a stones' throw from the capital but light-years away from its anything-goes mentality.

To make his point, Mayor Marcouch recently invited Amsterdam's annual Gay Pride parade to pass through his constituency when it takes place in August.

"It is necessary to confront this issue, to say that homosexuals are normal people like all of us and that we require them to be respected," Marcouch told AFP.

[Link: www.google.com...]

198 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:41:56pm

re: #197 Talking Point Detective

Thanks for the link. I wonder what he would have to say to this guy:

[Link: www.google.com...]

"I always say: your freedom to be an orthodox Muslim is the same as that of a homosexual to be homosexual," said Marcouch, himself heterosexual. "Freedom is guaranteed in the constitution" of the Netherlands.
I love this quote.

199 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:42:20pm

re: #197 Talking Point Detective

Awesome! I'm saving this story, and showing it to others. This Mayor is Awesome! I kinda want to convince this guy to immigrate here.

200 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:45:12pm

re: #196 Charles

You seem to be saying that all rational criticism of militant Islam is based on bigotry, and I strongly disagree.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that as I saw it, the anti-jihad blogosphere was always characterized by obvious bigotry. So we'd have to bury down do determining exactly at what point opposition to militant Islam is bigoted.

For example, one basic criterion for me was a blanket characterization of people who differed in their opposition to militant Islam as appeasers. That was happening in spades all over the rightwing anti-jihad blogosphere.

201 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:51:05pm

re: #200 Talking Point Detective

For example, one basic criterion for me was a blanket characterization of people who differed in their opposition to militant Islam as appeasers. That was happening in spades all over the rightwing anti-jihad blogosphere.

How does characterizing people as "appeasers" equate to "bigotry?" That seems like a pretty flexible criterion. Is there no possible use of the term "appeasers" that doesn't connote bigotry?

In any case, I don't take any responsibility for what other people write, and I fail to see what that has to do with my point.

202 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:51:06pm

And let's listen to very intelligent white racist for a moment:

“Moderate Muslims don’t exist,” said one audience member at the Geller and Spencer event. “Muslims are not able to be moderate — or they are speaking against what is written in the Koran.”

Thanks, whitey!

203 webevintage  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:51:42pm

re: #185 engineer dog

I love your buddy's blog.
He ranks up there with Wonkette on the list of "blogs that make me laugh my ass off".

204 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:55:50pm

re: #196 Charles

You seem to be saying that all rational criticism of militant Islam is based on bigotry, and I strongly disagree. After the 9/11 attacks, it was a perfectly rational response to want to know more about the Islamic rationale for jihad, and that was always my main focus at LGF -- getting as much information about the subject as possible.

I've made it extremely clear that I want nothing to do with any form of bigotry, and I've been smeared and vilified all over the web as a result. I think I paid my dues on this issue, in spades, and I don't really appreciate the implication that I was a "bigot" for wanting to do what I could to push back against terrorism.

And just to be clear, I'm not calling you a bigot. You've made your opposition to Islamophobes abundantly clear. What I'm questioning is whether that "anti-jihad blogosphere" was ever not infused throughout with bigotry. Ultimately, it's really an academic point. It doesn't matter nearly as much as maintaining vigilance in distinguishing between valid opposition to militant Islam and bigotry - and you have done a lot of good work in that respect - and have endured a lot of clearly undeserved personal attacks for doing so. But the lunatic Islamophobes have smeared people in a similar vein all along - this is not new behavior for them.

205 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:58:40pm

re: #201 Charles

How does characterizing people as "appeasers" equate to "bigotry?" That seems like a pretty flexible criterion. Is there no possible use of the term "appeasers" that doesn't connote bigotry?

In any case, I don't take any responsibility for what other people write, and I fail to see what that has to do with my point.

I agree, it doesn't, directly. But I think it is part and parcel of the approach of the bigots. Essentially, I mean, when people attack anyone who isn't a bigot as an appeaser - when they attack anyone who says that Islam isn't the problem, but that radical Islam, or fundamentalism, is the problem, or who says that Western foreign policy has played a role in creating hatred in the Muslim world. That leaves only bigotry as a valid response to radical Islam.

206 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 1:58:48pm

Anti-Norquist literature at CPAC:

Image: GroverNorquistFlyer1-thumb-450x600-32921.jpg

Link:

on.com/community/blogs/less_is_more/2011/02/anti-grover_norquist_flyer_at.html

Remind me to shed a tear for him.

207 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 2:04:01pm

re: #206 Decatur Deb

Bad link, should be:

[Link: boston.com...]

208 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 2:11:25pm

re: #204 Talking Point Detective

And just to be clear, I'm not calling you a bigot. You've made your opposition to Islamophobes abundantly clear. What I'm questioning is whether that "anti-jihad blogosphere" was ever not infused throughout with bigotry. Ultimately, it's really an academic point. It doesn't matter nearly as much as maintaining vigilance in distinguishing between valid opposition to militant Islam and bigotry - and you have done a lot of good work in that respect - and have endured a lot of clearly undeserved personal attacks for doing so. But the lunatic Islamophobes have smeared people in a similar vein all along - this is not new behavior for them.

I think you are begging the question.

That which was bigoted is lumped with anti-jihad, hence anti-jihad is bigoted, followed by "give me an example" wherein the definition of anti-jihad can be moved.

209 prairiefire  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 2:42:50pm

re: #153 calochortus

Why, of course your kids are gorgeous-that was a compliment! I trust gorgeous is what you get when you put a white woman with an oriental man, 'cause you are describing my future grandchildren. (And my daughter loves her Asian last name. It confuses the heck out of people. ;-) )

Nature loves ethnic diversity. Expanding the gene pool ~ keepin' it fresh!

210 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 3:04:10pm

re: #178 Lidane

OT, but Henry Rollins turns 50 today. Where did the time go?

Backstage with Hank:
Image: 7CgIp.jpg

211 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 3:06:08pm

re: #178 Lidane

Also:

[Link: www.lettersofnote.com...]

212 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 3:27:16pm

re: #208 karmic_inquisitor

I think you are begging the question.

That which was bigoted is lumped with anti-jihad, hence anti-jihad is bigoted, followed by "give me an example" wherein the definition of anti-jihad can be moved.

That's a fair point. All anti-jihad is not bigoted. However, I will maintain that the anti-jihad blogosphere, such as it was, in a general sense can be fairly characterized as bigoted. It seems to me that is a specific sub-set of people who were anti-jihad. Anti-jihad would also apply to many, many people who were absolutely horrified by the misogyny and murderous intolerance of the Taliban, but who also distinguished radical Islam from Islam, or who also said that it is simply a fact that U.S. foreign policy creates resentment in the Muslim world. That was deliberately twisted into the incorrect accusation that people were saying that murderous intolerance and misogyny were justified (some did say that, but it was a tiny minority). Those types of accusations were rampant in the anti-jihad blogosphere.

I'm going to drop it here because as I said, I think the history of the anti-jihad blogosphere is not necessarily relevant to the larger discussion of where anti-jihadism and bigotry do or don't overlap. I am aware of a potential unintended consequence of being seen as validating the smear-merchants who attack Charles for his efforts to identify the bigots who cloak themselves under a mantle of being in opposition to militant Islam. To be clear, those people are pigs of the highest order.

213 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 3:49:27pm

I think the bigot brigade is exactly that—i.e. I don't believe for a minute that they actually believe the ridiculous anti-jihad crap they constantly vomit, it's just a (lucrative) cover that allows them to give vent to their intense loathing of all Muslims.

If they ever found themselves in a room full of real jihadis, they'd crap themselves in 30 seconds flat.

214 prairiefire  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 3:58:40pm

re: #213 CuriousLurker

I think the bigot brigade is exactly that—i.e. I don't believe for a minute that they actually believe the ridiculous anti-jihad crap they constantly vomit, it's just a (lucrative) cover that allows them to give vent to their intense loathing of all Muslims.

If they ever found themselves in a room full of real jihadis, they'd crap themselves in 30 seconds flat.

The comments against Islam from the right are intensifying. The subject has distilled down to a classical "bogeyman" of otherness.
A classmate who is hard right posted on Facebook ~"Where are their charities? Their contributions to history? What good has ever come from their culture.?" I don't engage with her on that forum, but there is a lot of room for learning the facts on her part.

215 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 4:45:35pm

re: #214 prairiefire

The comments against Islam from the right are intensifying. The subject has distilled down to a classical "bogeyman" of otherness.

Indeed they are, and it's going to get worse the closer we get to 2012. Being the designated political football is undoubtedly going to make for a long, rough road for American Muslims over the next couple of years.

A classmate who is hard right posted on Facebook ~"Where are their charities? Their contributions to history? What good has ever come from their culture.?" I don't engage with her on that forum, but there is a lot of room for learning the facts on her part.

There's no reasoning with some people. When I first became Muslim back in the early '90s I used to constantly get into skirmishes with Salafi types, but I finally came to the realization that trying to budge them from their hard-line positions was futile, and all it ended up doing was ruining MY day. Once I learned how to emotionally disengage and push THEIR buttons, I did so every time they approached me until they finally learned that it was better to just leave me the hell alone.

My point is that with some (many?) people who are hard right it won't matter how much anyone tries to educate them—they'll simply reject whatever facts are given to them in favor of their preferred narrative. At least that's been my experience, and I no longer have the patience or inclination to deal with their attitudes, concern myself with trying to "fix" them, or figure out what causes them to be like that. They are what they are by their own choice, so I deal with them accordingly.

216 JRCMYP  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 7:02:26pm

Is it really 2011? Because it sure doesn't feel that way lately.

217 Thorzdad  Mon, Feb 14, 2011 7:02:58am

Sometimes I wonder if the best course wouldn't be to simply let these nuts take over the country and watch from my bunker as they turn on and devour each other, in an orgy of "I'm more conservative than you." Then, once they are done with their internecine carnage, crawl back out and enjoy a world without these nutjobs.

218 Genshed  Mon, Feb 14, 2011 12:06:00pm

The one I feel sorry for is the lone Muslim on the ACU board, who got to show up at CPAC. I feel sure he has a strong commitment to conservative ideology, he's worked for this country's government promoting its policies (during the PREVIOUS administration), and he has to sit there telling people, 'no, I do not worship the moon and eat babies.'

If some of our fine Christian pundits had to face that kind of withering inanity, they'd curl up and cry Uncle.

219 Ming  Mon, Feb 14, 2011 4:00:34pm

It must be very disturbing to Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer to see the people of Egypt rally for democracy, without waving Korans and chanting Death to America all the time. Actually, I really think that people like Geller and Spencer would be very uncomfortable with moderate Muslims. Geller and Spencer are in their comfort zone when Muslims behave like frenzied lunatics. They are very much NOT in their comfort zone when Muslims behave like "normal people". That's gotta hurt.

220 Laughing Gas  Mon, Feb 14, 2011 6:14:24pm

[Link: www.expatica.com...]

She may have exaggerated her background a bit.


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 Frank says:

Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass.