Mississippi Gov. Refuses to Condemn KKK License Plate

Haley Barbour says he never denounces anything
Wingnuts • Views: 29,255

As we noted Monday, the NAACP has called for Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour to denounce an outrageous proposal to commemorate General Nathan Bedford Forrest, the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, with a state license plate.

Yesterday Barbour refused to say anything negative about a license plate dedicated to the KKK.

Republican Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour is refusing to condemn a state proposal that would honor a Confederate General and early leader of the Ku Klux Klan, the Associated Press reports, telling reporters on Tuesday that “I don’t go around denouncing people.”

The proposal, brought up by the Mississippi Division of Sons of Confederate Veterans, seeks to create a state-issued license plate honoring Nathan Bedford Forrest. Forrest was a lieutenant general in the Confederate Army and, it is believed one of the earliest members of (and first “Grand Wizard” to) the white supremacist group Ku Klux Klan.

Barbour, considered a potential 2012 presidential candidate, said he didn’t think the proposal would be successful and that he did not, as a policy, denounce things or people.

“I don’t go around denouncing people,” he said, according to the Associated Press, when asked for a response to the proposal. “That’s not going to happen. I don’t even denounce the news media.”

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246 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:20:41am

I'm sure this will work out real well for him on the national stage...

Its like the GOP is actively TRYING to insure the south is the only area they're going to win in 2012....

2 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:22:03am

"I don't even denounce the news media."

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Dig that hole.

3 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:22:38am

re: #2 BigPapa

Dig that hole.

Drill Baby Drill!

4 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:23:50am

It shows a lack of common sense and decency - and ignores the history of Bedford and the KKK and their atrocious treatment of African Americans. It's tremendously hurtful and a "no comment" (which this is) doesn't cut it.

Heck, denouncing these license plates is justified and proper - and failing to do so shows that Barbour lacks the character and judgment necessary to seek the presidency. Contemplating a run for president means having to take a principled stand on issues - and using the office of the President of the US to denounce those things that you see as wrong. It means pointing out right and wrong.

5 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:24:20am

So I see that Haley lacks the Moral Courage to speak against this issue.

Figures.

6 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:25:15am

...It really makes you wonder....
Like Germany having an Adolph Hitler License plate!!
...And in other news...Utah has an official State Firearm!! ;-)

7 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:25:54am

More GOP minority outreach. What fun.

8 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:26:32am

re: #7 Lidane

More GOP minority outreach. What fun.

Well those people who still think the south should have won the civil war are quite doubtlessly a minority....

9 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:26:36am

John Boehner won't condemn Birthers, Haley Barbour won't condemn neo-Confederate racism. There seems to be a pattern here.

10 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:27:31am

re: #5 Ericus58

So I see that Haley lacks the Moral Courage to speak against this issue.

Figures.

I think you just showed him how it's done. Denouncing, that is.

11 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:27:48am

re: #9 Charles

John Boehner won't condemn Birthers, Haley Barbour won't condemn neo-Confederate racism. There seems to be a pattern here.

Sure. They're pandering to the party base.

12 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:28:22am

re: #9 Charles

John Boehner won't condemn Birthers, Haley Barbour won't condemn neo-Confederate racism. There seems to be a pattern here.

To nevah evah receive an African American vote, among others.

13 Kragar  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:29:06am

re: #9 Charles

John Boehner won't condemn Birthers, Haley Barbour won't condemn neo-Confederate racism. There seems to be a pattern here.

Its a big tent...except for the gays...or the muslims...

14 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:29:07am

re: #11 Lidane

Sure. They're pandering to the party base.

And what a utterly base base it is....

15 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:29:38am

re: #9 Charles

There is a pattern here: not taking a stand on important issues. Whether it's just that or for more sinister reasons it's clearly wrong.

I'd not be surprised if they give credence to some of these issues but don't want to come out and say it nor alienate the constituency that believes it.

16 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:30:57am

I'm sure there were Confederate Generals who never owned a slave
or supported the KKK...eeer...I would hope!

17 makeitstop  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:31:56am

And this guy wants to be president? Good luck with that, Haley, you bigot.

These people don't even feel the need to hide it any more. Unbelievable.

18 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:32:58am

Remember when Karl Rove had the nerve imply that the GOP had nominated an "unelectable" candidate in Christine O'Donnell?

Or when Michael Steel spoke out against Rush Limbaugh?

They got smacked back into line and learned to keep their moths shut, at least in public.

Any moderates left in the party have been scared into sullen silence.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:34:12am

re: #16 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm sure there were Confederate Generals who never owned a slave
or supported the KKK...eeer...I would hope!


Not to mention ones who murdered black prisoners of war.

How about an "Andersonville Prison Camp" commemorative plate?

20 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:34:17am

re: #18 ralphieboy

Remember when Karl Rove had the nerve imply that the GOP had nominated an "unelectable" candidate in Christine O'Donnell?

Or when Michael Steel spoke out against Rush Limbaugh?

They got smacked back into line and learned to keep their moths shut, at least in public.

Any moderates left in the party have been scared into sullen silence.

David Frum still spouts out some sense every now and again before getting dog pilled by his fellow republicans....

21 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:34:46am

FTA:

Forrest, a slave trader before the Civil War, is thought to have distanced himself from the KKK later in life.

Thought? Shouldn't we know by now? Did he or didn't he.

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:35:08am

re: #20 jamesfirecat

David Frum still spouts out some sense every now and again before getting dog pilled by his fellow republicans...


Is he planning on running for any sort of major office in 2012?

23 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:35:10am

re: #18 ralphieboy

Any moderates left in the party have been scared into sullen silence.

I think that's the point. Limbaugh has said for years, was saying in the early 90's, that '... the GOP needs to get more conservative, not less. They win when they become more conservative, the 'Merican people are conservative.'

It's dominionism.

24 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:35:12am

Evidently Mississippi wants to be remembered as fat, stupid, slimy, and racist.

Kinda sad a slack jawed, double-chinned, asshole like Barbour thinks this is an appropriate future for Mississippi residents. Better to take the whole state down with him than stand up for anything.

25 zora  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:36:20am

more forrest history here:

[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

Yesterday I wrote about the effort in Mississippi to create a special commemorative license plate honoring the legacy of Nathan Bedford Forrest—a Slave Trader, War Criminal, American Traitor and Domestic Terrorist.

I had mentioned that Forrest made a fortune as a slave trader before the Civil War and included an notice he ran advertising his “Negro Mart”:

good read.

26 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:37:26am

Here we are in the year 2011 -- the 21st century. Yet we still have politicians pandering (and no doubt more) to neo-Confederates and the legacy of the KKK.

The never ending "Southern Strategy" of the Republican party.

27 okonkolo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:40:40am

Check out one of Forrest's Slave Mart advertisements that Ta-Nehisi Coates and Balloon Juice posted a few days ago:
Forrest and Maples Slave Dealers

28 okonkolo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:41:59am

re: #25 zora

Doh, you beat me to it.

29 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:42:59am

re: #27 okonkolo

Check out one of Forrest's Slave Mart advertisements that Ta-Nehisi Coates and Balloon Juice posted a few days ago:
Forrest and Maples Slave Dealers

Yeesh!

30 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:44:00am

re: #27 okonkolo

Check out one of Forrest's Slave Mart advertisements that Ta-Nehisi Coates and Balloon Juice posted a few days ago:
Forrest and Maples Slave Dealers

Holy shit.

"Their jail is capable of containing 300".

Creepy. In a big way.

31 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:44:46am

re: #27 okonkolo

It's official: before there was Comic Sans and the FW FW email feature, they still suffered from random capitalization.

32 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:45:40am

I'm getting a strong 'silver lining' take on all this. It seems nuttery is peaking now that they feel emboldened by the recent electoral gains but forget much of the election was about frustration with a once in a lifetime recession, not an indictment of Obama or a vote for conservatism.

They really are letting it all hang out and I'm glad they are. The GOP really is starting a slow trainwreck implosion.

33 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:46:05am

Barbour is counting on the appearance that the crazies dominate the Republican party at this time. I've long espoused the opinion that for the GOP there are three blocks and that anyone vetoed by one block cannot win; that the winner can get away with being tolerated by one, two, or even (in McCain's case) all three blocks, but a veto destroys them no matter how popular they are with the other three blocks.

Because of the crazies' domination of the nativist block and strong influence if not domination of the dominionist block, there will be no "tolerate" vote from them. Either the candidate is one of them or they're unacceptable. Given the inherent tensions I suspect the best any such candidate would get from the corporatist block is 'tolerable' -- no veto, but we'd really like someone else.

Now look at Barbour. He's not (yet) running against Obama. He's running against Huckabee and Palin, maybe Pawlenty and Thune. He figures Palin's a quitter and Huckabee has the two groups of crazies mixed, playing more to dominionists than nativists.

And once he gets the nomination, all he has to do is run on the economy and the coded signal that he's opposed by someone 'illegitimately' occupying the white house. He figures that's a shoe-in if he has the nomination.

That's how I peg it, anyway.

34 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:47:27am

re: #32 BigPapa

I'm getting a strong 'silver lining' take on all this. It seems nuttery is peaking now that they feel emboldened by the recent electoral gains but forget much of the election was about frustration with a once in a lifetime recession, not an indictment of Obama or a vote for conservatism.

They really are letting it all hang out and I'm glad they are. The GOP really is starting a slow trainwreck implosion.

Absolutely. They should let their freak flag fly.

Wait until the first round of Presidential Primary debates, when there are 10 or so candidates each trying to out-nut the other. With any kind of luck at all, BHO will be able to phone it in.

35 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:47:34am

re: #30 garhighway

Holy shit.

"Their jail is capable of containing 300".

Creepy. In a big way.

Remember what I said about why jails/prisons should not ever everever EVER be anything but government run facilities rather than private enterprises.... yeah that all over again....

36 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:47:59am

re: #31 theheat

It's official: before there was Comic Sans and the FW FW email feature, they still suffered from random capitalization.

Gutenburg started it.

37 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:49:53am

re: #34 garhighway

Absolutely. They should let their freak flag fly.

Wait until the first round of Presidential Primary debates, when there are 10 or so candidates each trying to out-nut the other. With any kind of luck at all, BHO will be able to phone it in.

Based on the current recognized possible candidates for a 2012 run, I can't disagree with your thinking, Gar.

38 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:50:36am

re: #34 garhighway

Absolutely. They should let their freak flag fly.

Wait until the first round of Presidential Primary debates, when there are 10 or so candidates each trying to out-nut the other. With any kind of luck at all, BHO will be able to phone it in.

If the GOP loses their collective minds and nominates someone like Palin, all he'd have to do is run ads showing her reality show and asking people if that's really what they want from a POTUS.

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:51:03am

re: #31 theheat

It's official: before there was Comic Sans and the FW FW email feature, they still suffered from random capitalization.

Not random: one capitalized Important Words.

Like Free Market, State's Rights, Manifest Destiny, etc.

40 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:51:27am

re: #36 garhighway

He needs to be recognized for his innovations, then retroactively bitch slapped. Hard.

41 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:52:55am

It is already starting to shape up just as Karl Rove even tried to warn his fellow Republicans: anyone conservative (i.e., batshit crazy) enough to get the party nomination will stand no chance of winning a general election

42 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:53:37am

re: #39 ralphieboy

Truth, Real Americans, Founding Fathers, Caribou, Family, Fetus, etc.
//

43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:53:42am

Well! Look who's number two!

44 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:53:56am

re: #40 theheat

He needs to be recognized for his innovations, then retroactively bitch slapped. Hard.
...Ironic.....It was called Presidents Island...

45 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:53:58am

re: #41 ralphieboy

It is already starting to shape up just as Karl Rove even tried to warn his fellow Republicans: anyone conservative (i.e., batshit crazy) enough to get the party nomination will stand no chance of winning a general election

What's really sad is that despite how crazy they've gotten, there's still no clear front runner among the Republicans....

How long till the primaries start?

46 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:56:26am

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well! Look who's number two!

LOL...Wow ...dodged a bullet !
Utah is safe!!Haha!

47 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:56:46am

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well! Look who's number two!

Why bother to sell the states when instead we could just sell the naming rights to the states?

(Proud Citizen of William&Maryland)

48 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:56:53am

re: #37 Ericus58

Based on the current recognized possible candidates for a 2012 run, I can't disagree with your thinking, Gar.

The only way I see it playing out differently is if we see a repeat of 2000, where all the big GOP donors get behind one candidate very early and the rest drop out for lack of wherewithal. GWB just gobbled up all the big money and left everyone with scraps. (I remember seeing Liddy Dole on TV complaining about that.)

I could see the Kochs and their pals getting together somewhere, looking at the nightmare scenario and saying "screw it, we've got to shut this circus down", and piling all their dough on someone like Romney. If that happens, it's a horse race.

49 tigger2005  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:57:26am

He doesn't "go around denouncing people" he says.

Really? Nobody? Ever? He's never had a negative word to say about a single living soul? Is this guy Will Rogers?

50 Alexzander  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:57:37am

re: #45 jamesfirecat

What's really sad is that despite how crazy they've gotten, there's still no clear front runner among the Republicans...

How long till the primaries start?

It is interesting how little the line has broken in terms of republican fronterunners. I think a lot of Republicans were hoping for their own Obama messiah candidate to come out of the woodwork but it never happened. Apparently everyone is late this year to formally announce they are running. Perhaps everyone is afraid of being the first target?

51 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:58:13am

re: #48 garhighway

The only way I see it playing out differently is if we see a repeat of 2000, where all the big GOP donors get behind one candidate very early and the rest drop out for lack of wherewithal. GWB just gobbled up all the big money and left everyone with scraps. (I remember seeing Liddy Dole on TV complaining about that.)

I could see the Kochs and their pals getting together somewhere, looking at the nightmare scenario and saying "screw it, we've got to shut this circus down", and piling all their dough on someone like Romney. If that happens, it's a horse race.

A flip flopping patrician from Massachusetts.... good luck with that....

52 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:00:31am

So I take it no possible GOP nominee for president is even going to pretend that they are interested in being president of the whole country. Just "real America".

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:00:57am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

I'm sure this will work out real well for him on the national stage...

Its like the GOP is actively TRYING to insure the south is the only area they're going to win in 2012...

I'm not really sure how this is going to play in the South.

My in-laws in Louisiana are, er, old-fashioned about race, (this means that I think they are deranged bigots) but they voted for Obama, and I think they'd consider it a strike against someone that he allowed a license plate honoring the KKK.

54 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:01:31am

re: #50 Alexzander

It is interesting how little the line has broken in terms of republican fronterunners. I think a lot of Republicans were hoping for their own Obama messiah candidate to come out of the woodwork but it never happened. Apparently everyone is late this year to formally announce they are running. Perhaps everyone is afraid of being the first target?

I used to have Palin as the most likely candidate, based on a lot of secondary measures. The problem is she's still a quitter. She's had several speaking engagements she's dropped because there were going to be press members who would ask mean questions. She might announce, but when she starts facing the relentless pressure of the press I think she'll quit again.

Now, I just don't know. I can tell you some who will not -- Romney and Huntsman, for example. But whoever it is must be not just popular with but "one of" the crazies. No "RINOs", and RINO is anyone who doesn't dance the tea party tango.

55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:02:14am

re: #52 moderatelyradicalliberal

Real Americans can be dicks too!

56 Alexzander  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:03:23am

From Haaretz:

Alan Dershowitz to join WikiLeaks founder Assange's legal team

"Dershowitz tells CNN the U.S. has a double standard when on one hand it encourages use of new media in Iran and Egypt, and on other seek records of people who follow Twitter."

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:03:39am

re: #45 jamesfirecat

What's really sad is that despite how crazy they've gotten, there's still no clear front runner among the Republicans...

How long till the primaries start?

The other thing we are seeing, especially with Glenn Beck and the CPAC conspiracy theory buffs is that if you aren't conservative enough, you find yourself accused of being in bed with the "Enemy".

58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:04:10am

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

“When we said we need to run America like a business and get serious about cutting costs, we didn’t mean losing Kentucky,” said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who would surrender his post with Kentucky’s sale. “We meant that government should take a hands-off approach and let the free market decide.”

“The free market says Kentucky sucks,” Obama replied. “Look at the numbers.”

from the article...

59 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:04:39am

Barbour is really working to sew up the KKK vote!

60 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:04:51am

re: #56 Alexzander

He has thrown in with a scoundrel, yet makes an excellent point.

61 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:05:01am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

A flip flopping patrician from Massachusetts... good luck with that...

He even flip flops on books he writes about himself. ;p

Mitt Rewrites Himself

[Link: thephoenix.com...]

62 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:05:48am

re: #54 kirkspencer

I used to have Palin as the most likely candidate... She might announce, but when she starts facing the relentless pressure of the press I think she'll quit again

She's had her eye on the prize since she quit her governor's gig. While she'll cry and damn the media for asking painful questions, and maintain her victim status, she's about as self-sacrificing as a cockroach. She'll be in it for the long haul. And I'd bet she has a box of backup Sharpies in a travel bag, just itching for the campaign trail.

63 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:06:02am

re: #48 garhighway

The only way I see it playing out differently is if we see a repeat of 2000, where all the big GOP donors get behind one candidate very early and the rest drop out for lack of wherewithal. GWB just gobbled up all the big money and left everyone with scraps. (I remember seeing Liddy Dole on TV complaining about that.)

I could see the Kochs and their pals getting together somewhere, looking at the nightmare scenario and saying "screw it, we've got to shut this circus down", and piling all their dough on someone like Romney. If that happens, it's a horse race.

Have I ever said, even though I'm not an American, how little I'm looking forward to the next US election? I think regardless of who is involved it's going to be the nuttiest of nuts. I'm not the least bit convinced either that Obama's reelection is a certainty. I'm planning on checking out and following the ignorance is bliss trajectory. I don't want to know what's happening. :) It ends up that it works in quite well with my multi-year plan and goals and I'm working towards not being in the country or in the country next to the country at that time. I'll be away from media and it's constant barrage. I'll just come back and what's done is done.

Ah perfect bliss.... :D

64 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:06:47am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

A flip flopping patrician from Massachusetts... good luck with that...

I'm not saying I want to marry the guy. But if I were the Koch's, and was looking for a relatively sane-sounding front man out of the current crop, he'd be fairly high on my list. Decent name recognition, not too crazy, telegenic, articulate. They could do worse.

65 tigger2005  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:08:02am

re: #63 Jadespring

Have I ever said, even though I'm not an American, how little I'm looking forward to the next US election? I think regardless of who is involved it's going to be the nuttiest of nuts. I'm not the least bit convinced either that Obama's reelection is a certainty. I'm planning on checking out and following the ignorance is bliss trajectory. I don't want to know what's happening. :) It ends up that it works in quite well with my multi-year plan and goals and I'm working towards not being in the country or in the country next to the country at that time. I'll be away from media and it's constant barrage. I'll just come back and what's done is done.

Ah perfect bliss... :D

Judicious application of alcoholic beverages in moments when you're tempted to brood or obsess over potential disaster may also help.

66 Alexzander  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:08:11am

re: #54 kirkspencer


Now, I just don't know. I can tell you some who will not -- Romney and Huntsman, for example. But whoever it is must be not just popular with but "one of" the crazies. No "RINOs", and RINO is anyone who doesn't dance the tea party tango.

Sorry I'm a little slow right now - just got off an overnight shift. You're saying Romney and Huntsman will definitely run, correct? Maybe Huntsman will actually end up saving the GOP from the madness.

67 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:08:12am

re: #62 theheat

She's had her eye on the prize since she quit her governor's gig. While she'll cry and damn the media for asking painful questions, and maintain her victim status, she's about as self-sacrificing as a cockroach. She'll be in it for the long haul. And I'd bet she has a box of backup Sharpies in a travel bag, just itching for the campaign trail.

Again, I think she does have her eye on that prize. But her habits will stop her, with the dominant habit being the one of not being able to tolerate the heat and so quitting when under the spotlight.

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:08:16am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

A flip flopping patrician from Massachusetts... good luck with that...

And a Mormon. Sorry, not Protestant enough for the GOP.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:08:38am

re: #2 BigPapa

"I don't even denounce the news media."

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Dig that hole.

It was supposed to be funny and diverting.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:09:02am

re: #6 reloadingisnotahobby

...It really makes you wonder...
Like Germany having an Adolph Hitler License plate!!
...And in other news...Utah has an official State Firearm!! ;-)

What did you choose, in the end?

71 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:09:14am

re: #48 garhighway

"screw it, we've got to shut this circus down"

Heh, I guess we'll see who ends up coming out of the clown car last!

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:09:45am

re: #9 Charles

John Boehner won't condemn Birthers, Haley Barbour won't condemn neo-Confederate racism. There seems to be a pattern here.

"We prefer not to upset people who might vote for us, and trust that other people who might vote for us won't jump ship just because we're pandering to lunatics and racists."

73 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:09:56am

This reminds me of Bob McDonnell here in Va issuing a declaration celebrating Confederate History Month without a mention of slavery. Whenever I think of Nathan Bedford Forrest, I think KKK founder and the butcher of Fort Pillow. This isn't Robert E. Lee here. And I have to say as a Virginian that there are parts of the South that need to get over the fact that the war was lost and the CSA was never a moral entity.

74 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:09:57am

re: #62 theheat

She's had her eye on the prize since she quit her governor's gig. While she'll cry and damn the media for asking painful questions, and maintain her victim status, she's about as self-sacrificing as a cockroach. She'll be in it for the long haul. And I'd bet she has a box of backup Sharpies in a travel bag, just itching for the campaign trail.

I expect that you will see her and a bunch of the others try to campaign around the mainstream media, avoiding them at all costs. The Katie Couric interview was a lesson they all learned: even a puffball interviewer can screw you up if your answers are dumb enough.

75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:09:58am

re: #68 ralphieboy

And a Mormon. Sorry, not Protestant enough for the GOP.

I am only basing this opinion on the forty or so LDS folks that I know. Every one of them is a Republican.

76 Spocomptonite  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:10:09am

“I don’t go around denouncing people, I don't even denounce the news media” -Haley Barbour

Barbour's speech at CPAC

I like the parts where he denounces the "liberal agenda", Health care, "the damage being done by the blizzard of the Obama administration's job crushing regulations", and, my personal favorite, "the liberal media elites".

In his defense though, he said it wasn't going to happen, not that it already did happen. /////////

77 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:11:22am

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am only basing this opinion on the forty or so LDS folks that I know. Every one of them is a Republican.

They can vote for Republicans all they want, but Republicans won't vote for one as President.

78 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:11:50am

re: #76 Spocomptonite

I really don't want to watch it, but if that speech says what you claim, you win the thread.

79 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:11:53am

re: #74 garhighway

I expect that you will see her and a bunch of the others try to campaign around the mainstream media, avoiding them at all costs. The Katie Couric interview was a lesson they all learned: even a puffball interviewer can screw you up if your answers are dumb enough.

Does that mean we'll get more Sharon Angle moments where candidates run away from the press?

Wow Stephen Colbert really was ahead of his time when he did that Helen Thomas tracking him down to ask him a question set to horror music thing back in 2006....

80 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:12:07am

re: #67 kirkspencer

I hope you're right, I really do. But I think she's going to insulate herself as much as possible and see it through. And the world will be a worse place for it.

It's cockroach races, and I'm betting on the one with the most cockroach-y characteristics to make the finish line. That'd be her.

81 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:12:56am

re: #78 wrenchwench

I really don't want to watch it, but if that speech says what you claim, you win the thread.

//Well he was denouncing things not actual people!

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:13:47am

re: #16 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm sure there were Confederate Generals who never owned a slave
or supported the KKK...eeer...I would hope!

I don't condemn everyone who fought for Confederacy. It was a different time. It was a complicated war.

That said, I don't like the idea of a U.S. state issuing a license plate to honor a man, born a citizen of the United States, who took up arms against said United States and attempted to defeat her in war.

(This is really elaborately phrased to avoid any possible condemnation of someplace issuing a license plate to honor Indian leaders, which I consider a totally different kettle of fish.)

Period. I don't like it.

83 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:13:59am

re: #76 Spocomptonite

“I don’t go around denouncing people, I don't even denounce the news media” -Haley Barbour

Barbour's speech at CPAC

I like the parts where he denounces the "liberal agenda", Health care, "the damage being done by the blizzard of the Obama administration's job crushing regulations", and, my personal favorite, "the liberal media elites".

In his defense though, he said it wasn't going to happen, not that it already did happen. ///

Denouncing liberals = good, denouncing the founder of the KKK= apparently he doesn't do that.

84 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:14:16am

re: #64 garhighway

I'm not saying I want to marry the guy. But if I were the Koch's, and was looking for a relatively sane-sounding front man out of the current crop, he'd be fairly high on my list. Decent name recognition, not too crazy, telegenic, articulate. They could do worse.

This may be true, but Romney is as fake as a 3 dollar bill. The guy has used car salesman written all over him. Plus his two biggest claims to fame are the Winter Olympics in Utah (who remembers that shit?) and Romneycare (which he wants everybody to forget about).

85 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:15:30am

I'm sure it's been said before, but I'll say it again.

If Barbour has no history of being critical of an idea or organization or person, then he can get away with saying that, but what are the odds of that?

I mean he doesn't even have to condemn it, he could have come out and said, "We don't need to make something like this to commemorate our history and heritage."

Something that simple would probably have been enough to make me not care, but instead now I look at all the times Barbour has come out in public to criticize something Obama has done and then thinking about his comments about the civil rights era and I go, yeah... evidence is starting to mount on Barbour.

And I don't think it's going to paint a pretty picture.

86 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:15:39am

re: #66 Alexzander

Sorry I'm a little slow right now - just got off an overnight shift. You're saying Romney and Huntsman will definitely run, correct? Maybe Huntsman will actually end up saving the GOP from the madness.

Romney will run. Huntsman might run. But neither will win.

Kirk's theory of the Republican Nomination process. There are three "blocks": dominionist (christianist); nativist; and corporatist. The winner is the one who best appeals to the most blocks while avoiding any vetoes from one of the blocks.

Filter the list first by removing anyone who gets a veto from one or more blocks. Of those remaining, sort for popularity (normally using a scale of 0 to 2) with each of the groups and multiply the respective scores for a final tally. If there is more than one high score, that's the horse race to watch.

Huntsman and Romney will be vetoed by the nativist and dominionist blocks, respectively if not mutually. Because of the domination the TP holds in both, the only scores are veto, 1, and 2 -- if they're a zero, they're a veto for being a RINO.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:16:53am

re: #24 theheat

Evidently Mississippi wants to be remembered as fat, stupid, slimy, and racist.

Kinda sad a slack jawed, double-chinned, asshole like Barbour thinks this is an appropriate future for Mississippi residents. Better to take the whole state down with him than stand up for anything.

Mississippi is the bottom of pretty much any positive list, and the top of any negative. This has been going on for a long time.

Frankly, I think that's what these guys were counting on. People in Tennessee (Bedford's home state) have enough awareness and leisure time and education and such to object to shit like this.

"Do it to Mississippi. They won't care."

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:17:13am

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, you might enjoy this.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:17:35am

re: #31 theheat

It's official: before there was Comic Sans and the FW FW email feature, they still suffered from random capitalization.

I think that's what the modern wingnut is trying to reproduce.

90 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:17:35am

re: #85 bloodstar

evidence is starting to mount on Barbour

There's a good start at #76.

91 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:18:07am

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't condemn everyone who fought for Confederacy. It was a different time. It was a complicated war.

That said, I don't like the idea of a U.S. state issuing a license plate to honor a man, born a citizen of the United States, who took up arms against said United States and attempted to defeat her in war.

One can rationalize a lot about the Civil War and those who fought in it, one can recall that our Founding Fathers owned slaves, one can even point out that Forrest in later life distanced himself from the KKK (although I gather he did not openly denouce it, as he was probably not someone who denounces anything)

But two words stand out here:

Fort Pillow.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That says it all.

Forrest ordered the massacre of black POW's in order to intimidate any other negroes from joining the Union Army.

As a result of which, the Union cancelled its prisoner exchange system and the southern camps like Andersonville began filling up to overcrowding.

92 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:18:48am

Romney has a better chance than Huntsman who will no doubt be derided for serving in Obama's administration. Plus his actions as governor will lead him to be derided as a RINO. I for one hope Huntsman stays true to himself and does not do what Romney did three-four years ago and totally abandon everything he stood for as governor. Remember Romney was a moderate as governor of Massachusets and at least one of his judicial picks affirmed the pro gay marriage ruling there. I actually think Romney will start out strong in the primaries but struggle since candidates like Palin, Huckabee, and otehrs will play the populist card which will work in many states.

93 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:20:12am

re: #80 theheat

I hope you're right, I really do. But I think she's going to insulate herself as much as possible and see it through. And the world will be a worse place for it.

It's cockroach races, and I'm betting on the one with the most cockroach-y characteristics to make the finish line. That'd be her.

We'll have to see. Her taint is still that she's a quitter, and her habit of ducking out of presentation and debate commitments isn't making that taint go away -- especially when she makes the reason the (paraphrase) mean people who were going to be there.

94 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:20:42am

re: #91 ralphieboy

One can rationalize a lot about the Civil War and those who fought in it, one can recall that our Founding Fathers owned slaves, one can even point out that Forrest in later life distanced himself from the KKK (although I gather he did not openly denouce it, as he was probably not someone who denounces anything)

But two words stand out here:

Fort Pillow.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That says it all.

Forrest ordered the massacre of black POW's in order to intimidate any other negroes from joining the Union Army.

As a result of which, the Union cancelled its prisoner exchange system and the southern camps like Andersonville began filling up to overcrowding.

Yeah, the Fort Pillow stuff bothers me just as much as him being the apparent KKK founder. As I said, this isn't Robert E. Lee we're talking here.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:20:52am

re: #77 ralphieboy

They can vote for Republicans all they want, but Republicans won't vote for one as President.

That's the key thing. Mormons as a group run politically conservative (pace Harry Reid), but 'the base' seems to have genuine issues with voting for LDS candidates. Don't get it, but there it is.

96 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:21:13am

Does the GOP have a winner take all primary or have they switched to the kind of system the Democrats have, where you take a percentage of delegates from each state? I think the kind of system they have will determine who can stay in the game long enough to win over the long term.

97 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:21:49am

re: #86 kirkspencer

Romney will run. Huntsman might run. But neither will win.

Kirk's theory of the Republican Nomination process. There are three "blocks": dominionist (christianist); nativist; and corporatist. The winner is the one who best appeals to the most blocks while avoiding any vetoes from one of the blocks.

Filter the list first by removing anyone who gets a veto from one or more blocks. Of those remaining, sort for popularity (normally using a scale of 0 to 2) with each of the groups and multiply the respective scores for a final tally. If there is more than one high score, that's the horse race to watch.

Huntsman and Romney will be vetoed by the nativist and dominionist blocks, respectively if not mutually. Because of the domination the TP holds in both, the only scores are veto, 1, and 2 -- if they're a zero, they're a veto for being a RINO.

I like your theory, but I think it is a hair too simple. You have to factor in the money. If it lines up heavy and early behind one candidate that distorts things. It happened in 2000, and it could happen again.

98 mojo9  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:23:47am

seems to me that putting one of those tags on your car would be akin to hanging a "kick me" sign on your backside.

99 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:24:11am

re: #97 garhighway

I like your theory, but I think it is a hair too simple. You have to factor in the money. If it lines up heavy and early behind one candidate that distorts things. It happened in 2000, and it could happen again.

It could, but you didn't have TPers and their hatred for the "establishment" GOP in 2000. I think the TPers will vote for whoever the hell they want to vote for.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:24:47am

re: #94 HappyWarrior

Yeah, the Fort Pillow stuff bothers me just as much as him being the apparent KKK founder. As I said, this isn't Robert E. Lee we're talking here.

I still feel, most of all, that we should not be honoring Confederate generals on state license plates--but if we're going to, yes, Bedford Forrest has some OTHER problems attached to him.

101 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:24:50am

Remember that the Dominionist block was so strongly opposed to McCain that they threatened to run their own candidate. Sarah palin was the quid pro quo for their support.

His first choice, Liebermann was an absolute no-go. To moderate, ex-Democrat and Jewish.

102 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:26:01am

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I still feel, most of all, that we should not be honoring Confederate generals on state license plates--but if we're going to, yes, Bedford Forrest has some OTHER problems attached to him.

Forrest is a fascinating figure in history, a major figure in military history, but absolutlely NOT fit to be commemorated in any official capacity.

103 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:26:14am

re: #97 garhighway

I like your theory, but I think it is a hair too simple. You have to factor in the money. If it lines up heavy and early behind one candidate that distorts things. It happened in 2000, and it could happen again.

Money won't break a veto. It can influence the popularity after the veto filter is applied.

104 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:27:52am

“I don’t go around denouncing people,” he said, according to the Associated Press, when asked for a response to the proposal. “That’s not going to happen."

Governor Haley Barbour spoke with Chris Wallace on FOX News Sunday about Barack Obama’s Gulf oil spill performance. Barbour said: “The American people will make their own judgements… Like Napoleon said, ‘Never interfere with your enemy when he’s in the process of destroying himself.’”

Nope. No "denouncement there. Uh uh. None. Nada. Zilch. Bubkis.

105 mojo9  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:28:27am

re: #98 mojo9

or like Bruce Willis in "Die Hard with a Vengence" wearing the "I hate everybody" sign.

106 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:28:35am

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I still feel, most of all, that we should not be honoring Confederate generals on state license plates--but if we're going to, yes, Bedford Forrest has some OTHER problems attached to him.


Oh we agree, 100%.

107 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:29:09am

And by the way the love for Forrest is so hypocritical even the shrieks you get if you so meuch as mention William T. Sherman.

108 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:30:10am

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Romney has a better chance than Huntsman who will no doubt be derided for serving in Obama's administration. Plus his actions as governor will lead him to be derided as a RINO. I for one hope Huntsman stays true to himself and does not do what Romney did three-four years ago and totally abandon everything he stood for as governor. Remember Romney was a moderate as governor of Massachusets and at least one of his judicial picks affirmed the pro gay marriage ruling there. I actually think Romney will start out strong in the primaries but struggle since candidates like Palin, Huckabee, and otehrs will play the populist card which will work in many states.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing if Huntsman sells out to the lunatic fringe sizable extremist element in the Republican Party. Should make for good entertainment value.

109 Spocomptonite  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:30:24am

re: #78 wrenchwench

I really don't want to watch it, but if that speech says what you claim, you win the thread.

Yeah, I should have taken notes when I watched it and cited the time in the video each of those quotes occurred, so no one else had to sit through nearly 30 minutes of Tea Party pandering in order to make sure I wasn't making stuff up.

As it was, the first 10 minutes of the video I was apathetic enough to find it hilarious, but by 20 minutes my defenses had been worn away by the acid erosion of his words and my empathy for the Non-republican rest of the human race made me mash stop on that disgusting example of complete disregard, directly or indirectly, for anyone not on their side, and I couldn't finish it.

110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:31:52am

re: #105 mojo9

That's not what the sign said.

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:33:36am

Does this new avatar make me look fat?

112 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:34:37am

re: #76 Spocomptonite

“I don’t go around denouncing people, I don't even denounce the news media” -Haley Barbour

Barbour's speech at CPAC

I like the parts where he denounces the "liberal agenda", Health care, "the damage being done by the blizzard of the Obama administration's job crushing regulations", and, my personal favorite, "the liberal media elites".

In his defense though, he said it wasn't going to happen, not that it already did happen. ///

You know it would seem to me that dealing with Barbour would be relatively easy. If he's such a good governor how come his state is still dead last or next to last in nearly every quality of life measure after he's run as governor? If he hasn't been able to take them from the 50th to the 45th poorest state at least, he wasn't worth a shit as governor.

113 mojo9  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:34:47am

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

that's what i remember. was it edited for tv? i didn't see the theater version. or do i have it all wrong? won't be a first for me. ;>)

114 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:35:16am

re: #61 moderatelyradicalliberal

He even flip flops on books he writes about himself. ;p

Mitt Rewrites Himself

[Link: thephoenix.com...]

Hasn't he been rewriting himself his entire career?

Mitt Romney makes used car salesmen look honest. Ugh.

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:35:49am

re: #113 mojo9

He was in Harlem. The sign did not say "Everybody".

Was edited.

116 mojo9  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:38:04am

re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

even more like the proposed license plate!

117 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:38:29am

re: #108 Talking Point Detective

I'm very much looking forward to seeing if Huntsman sells out to the lunatic fringe sizable extremist element in the Republican Party. Should make for good entertainment value.

I hope he doesn't. As is, he seems like a reasonable guy. re: #114 Lidane

Hasn't he been rewriting himself his entire career?

Mitt Romney makes used car salesmen look honest. Ugh.

Heh, I remember hearing that when he ran against Kennedy for the Senate in 1994, he tried to move to Ted's left on gay rights issues. What's sad is if Mitt had just been himself. He could have been a reasonable voice in the moderate wing of the GOP like his father was. My grandfather probably knew his father and though my grandfather was a staunch liberal, I am sure he could talk to George Romney reasonably. Mitt has sold his political soul out to the nuts. The most funniest thing was when he claimed to be a lifelong NRA member.

118 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:39:27am

re: #112 moderatelyradicalliberal

You know it would seem to me that dealing with Barbour would be relatively easy. If he's such a good governor how come his state is still dead last or next to last in nearly every quality of life measure after he's run as governor? If he hasn't been able to take them from the 50th to the 45th poorest state at least, he wasn't worth a shit as governor.

This is a good point. I wonder what he'd say if asked of that.

119 Spocomptonite  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:40:30am

re: #112 moderatelyradicalliberal

You know it would seem to me that dealing with Barbour would be relatively easy. If he's such a good governor how come his state is still dead last or next to last in nearly every quality of life measure after he's run as governor? If he hasn't been able to take them from the 50th to the 45th poorest state at least, he wasn't worth a shit as governor.

He started his speech at CPAC by saying, "Man, this Global Warming is about to freeze me to death", and then made an assertion that taxes don't contribute anything to the economy, only take away from it, so obviously facts don't matter to the man. You can't bring facts to an ignorance competition.

120 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:40:34am

More Haley Barbour not denouncing people - with reference to the BP oil spill:

"A bunch of liberal elites hope this will be the Three Mile Island of off-shore drilling"

121 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:40:52am

re: #113 mojo9

that's what i remember. was it edited for tv? i didn't see the theater version. or do i have it all wrong? won't be a first for me. ;>)

The sign said "I hate n******" in the original. That's why Sam Jackson's character had to save his ass. Bruce's character was sent into a black neighborhood wearing the sign by the bad guy who wanted him dead.

122 Blacksox  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:41:56am

I think that the confederacy was so racist and atrocious that none of their generals should ever br praised. Racist scum.

123 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:42:31am

re: #119 Spocomptonite

He started his speech at CPAC by saying, "Man, this Global Warming is about to freeze me to death", and then made an assertion that taxes don't contribute anything to the economy, only take away from it, so obviously facts don't matter to the man. You can't bring facts to an ignorance competition.

Really a "It's cold so I think I'll use that to deny global warming" joke, I mean I do that but I do it in jest. Haley meanwhile is pandering to his base.

124 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:42:33am

re: #19 ralphieboy

Not to mention ones who murdered black prisoners of war.

How about an "Andersonville Prison Camp" commemorative plate?

Go read "Confederates In The Attic".

Andersonville is a real hot topic for Southern apologists. The only way the camp could even be turned into a National Park was to agree to ignore what really happened there and make it about POW's from all wars. Locals in Georgia have memorial dinners honoring Andersonville commandant Henry Wirz.

Seriously.

He is seen as a martyr who just did his best for all those Northern boys who died with the best of intentions.

I wish I was joking.

125 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:43:11am

OT...

@EricBoehlert Eric Boehlert
Stunning: @andrewbreitbart blogger Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack; http://bit.ly/ff4UIr #beneathcontempt

Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack...

126 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:43:29am

re: #118 HappyWarrior

This is a good point. I wonder what he'd say if asked of that.

He would say the librul MSM was smearing the good state of Mississippi.

127 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:45:32am

re: #119 Spocomptonite

He started his speech at CPAC by saying, "Man, this Global Warming is about to freeze me to death", and then made an assertion that taxes don't contribute anything to the economy, only take away from it, so obviously facts don't matter to the man. You can't bring facts to an ignorance competition.

Someone should explain to them that snow and ice are frozen rain. And we have lots and lots of rain because of global warming which is turning into snow. If this wasn't winter time we would have been dealing with horrible floods all across the country.

128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:45:35am

re: #121 moderatelyradicalliberal

By the way... I love just about every movie with Bruce Willis in it.

However, "Death Becomes Her" was on early this morning.

What a piece of poo-poo.

129 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:45:43am

re: #124 celticdragon

Go read "Confederates In The Attic".

Andersonville is a real hot topic for Southern apologists. The only way the camp could even be turned into a National Park was to agree to ignore what really happened there and make it about POW's from all wars. Locals in Georgia have memorial dinners honoring Andersonville commandant Henry Wirz.

Seriously.

He is seen as a martyr who just did his best for all those Northern boys who died with the best of intentions.

I wish I was joking.

Really? They haven't gotten around to actively blaming Andersonville on the North for refusing to exchange prisoners yet?

130 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:45:51am

re: #124 celticdragon

Go read "Confederates In The Attic".

Andersonville is a real hot topic for Southern apologists. The only way the camp could even be turned into a National Park was to agree to ignore what really happened there and make it about POW's from all wars. Locals in Georgia have memorial dinners honoring Andersonville commandant Henry Wirz.

Seriously.

He is seen as a martyr who just did his best for all those Northern boys who died with the best of intentions.

I wish I was joking.

I think what Confederate apologists count on is talking with people who aren't well versed with Civil War history. I've had an interest in CIvil War history myself going back to a young age so I like to think I can debate teh facts with them well.

131 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:46:10am

re: #125 Gus 802

OT...

@EricBoehlert Eric Boehlert
Stunning: @andrewbreitbart blogger Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack; http://bit.ly/ff4UIr #beneathcontempt

Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack...

I'm not sure he being accurate. Jim "dim" Hoft seems to be blaming 'libruls' and whatever else, but I didn't see where he blamed Lara Logan.

132 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:46:20am

re: #124 celticdragon

Go read "Confederates In The Attic".

Andersonville is a real hot topic for Southern apologists. The only way the camp could even be turned into a National Park was to agree to ignore what really happened there and make it about POW's from all wars. Locals in Georgia have memorial dinners honoring Andersonville commandant Henry Wirz.

Seriously.

He is seen as a martyr who just did his best for all those Northern boys who died with the best of intentions.

I wish I was joking.

Yaay!! I get to invoke the MBF. The commander of Rock Island POW camp would have had some explaining to do, it the war had gone the other way.

133 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:47:15am

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way... I love just about every movie with Bruce Willis in it.

However, "Death Becomes Her" was on early this morning.

What a piece of poo-poo.

I love Bruce too and he was the only thing funny in that film. He's so cool even his ex-wife likes him. That says a lot.

134 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:47:31am

re: #129 jamesfirecat

Really? They haven't gotten around to actively blaming Andersonville on the North for refusing to exchange prisoners yet?

Yep. They are already have that covered too. They just forget to mention that Lee was refusing to include captured African American Union soldiers, which lead to the break down.

135 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:48:09am

re: #125 Gus 802

OT...

@EricBoehlert Eric Boehlert
Stunning: @andrewbreitbart blogger Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack; http://bit.ly/ff4UIr #beneathcontempt

Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack...

PIGDERP

136 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:48:22am

re: #131 celticdragon

I'm not sure he being accurate. Jim "dim" Hoft seems to be blaming 'libruls' and whatever else, but I didn't see where he blamed Lara Logan.

He says "her liberal belief system".

137 makeitstop  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:48:31am

re: #125 Gus 802

OT...

@EricBoehlert Eric Boehlert
Stunning: @andrewbreitbart blogger Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack; http://bit.ly/ff4UIr #beneathcontempt

Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack...

My God. Another new low.

138 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:48:54am

A word of advice for anyone who deals with Confederate apologists in the future, ask them about General Patrick Cleburne. Cleburne proposed freeing slaves to fight alongside hte Confederates. They refused his request and many historians believe that despite being one of the best generals in the Western theatre, this was why he was never promoted to major general. Cleburne died at the BAttle of Franklin, a brigadier general.

139 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:49:34am

re: #125 Gus 802

OT...

@EricBoehlert Eric Boehlert
Stunning: @andrewbreitbart blogger Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack; http://bit.ly/ff4UIr #beneathcontempt

Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack...

He must have deleted it because I don't see anything.

140 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:50:14am

re: #134 celticdragon

Yep. They are already have that covered too. They just forget to mention that Lee was refusing to include captured African American Union soldiers, which lead to the break down.

Treatment of Black prisoners was certainly a driver, but it coincided with US Grant's total war concepts. The parole system was loopholed and abused, and Grant was sick of facing the same rebels on different battlefields.

141 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:50:20am

re: #139 HappyWarrior

He must have deleted it because I don't see anything.

Link may be messed up. I see it on his main page: [Link: twitter.com...]

142 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:50:34am

re: #139 HappyWarrior

He must have deleted it because I don't see anything.

Should still be there. I just did a ctl + F5. Try this.

143 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:50:47am

re: #138 HappyWarrior

Freed slaves fighting for the South so whitey could keep slaves. What a terrific idea.
//

144 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:51:53am

re: #139 HappyWarrior

He must have deleted it because I don't see anything.

[Link: gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com...]

145 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:52:29am

re: #143 theheat

Freed slaves fighting for the South so whitey could keep slaves. What a terrific idea.
//

Ha yeah I know. I guess my point is if the CSA was so enlightened, they would have allowed blacks to serve as soldiers which they did not.

146 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:52:52am

re: #141 publicityStunted

Link may be messed up. I see it on his main page: [Link: twitter.com...]

I see Pamela Geller has joined in on the act too. Fuck these people.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:54:22am

re: #131 celticdragon

I'm not sure he being accurate. Jim "dim" Hoft seems to be blaming 'libruls' and whatever else, but I didn't see where he blamed Lara Logan.

Schmucky, yes, but not actually attacking Logan.

Might have missed something. I'm bad with Twitter.

148 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:55:39am

re: #145 HappyWarrior

Ha yeah I know. I guess my point is if the CSA was so enlightened, they would have allowed blacks to serve as soldiers which they did not.

Letting black men serve as soilders would have undermined the whole rationale for slavery. People who are supposed to be subhuman beasts of burden can't be good fighters can they? Plus if you gave them guns, who would they be most inclined to shoot at?

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:55:59am

re: #146 HappyWarrior

I see Pamela Geller has joined in on the act too. Fuck these people.

I like "@DebbieSchlussel just wrote the dumbest blog post in the history of blog posts."

150 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:56:04am

re: #144 Stanley Sea

[Link: gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com...]

YEah just read it. What an ssshole and the commenters are even worse.

151 Steve Dutch  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:56:21am

Why Forrest? Why not Breckenridge, Early, Ewell, Johnston, or Longstreet? He was innovative and anticipated the role of mobility better than most, but he was a thug before the war, during the war and after the war. Or if you want a Mississippi connection, how about Pemberton, who defended Vicksburg as well as anyone could have? Has to be the KKK connection.

152 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:56:45am

re: #136 Gus 802

He says "her liberal belief system".

I didn't see it.

jhinderaker The awful Lara Logan assault reminds us of the bedrock principle of conservatism: mobs are bad. [Link: bit.ly...]

Okay, we have a new bedrock principle of conservatism...unless they are teabaggers with AR-15's, of course...

HORRIBLE… CBS News’ Lara Logan Hospitalized; Was RAPED & BEATEN By Peaceful Egyptian Protesters [Link: t.co...] via @gatewaypundit

Nice dig at every living Egyptian who came out to protest 30 years of dictatorship...

AndrewBreitbart Liberal, Anti-War Journalist Trashes Injured Sexually Assaulted CBS Reporter: [Link: bit.ly...] (Go figure: MSM ignores.)

Blame the librul MSM for not fellating Breitbart enough...

Plenty to mock or be ashamed of depending on whether you wrote the drivel...but any tweet he put up blaming Lara may have been taken down. There is still enough to hang him on his petard.

153 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:57:45am

re: #146 HappyWarrior

I see Pamela Geller has joined in on the act too. Fuck these people.

Yes, fuck these people.

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:57:58am

Check this out at Salon, BTW.

Amazing, how screwed up people can be.

In a stunningly offensive blog post titled "Lara Logan, CBS Reporter and Warzone 'It Girl,' Raped Repeatedly Amid Egypt Celebration" for LA Weekly, writer Simone Wilson managed to mention Logan’s "shocking good looks and ballsy knack for pushing her way to the heart of the action" before getting to the assault itself. She then went on to imagine how it happened: "In a rush of frenzied excitement, some Egyptian protestors apparently consummated their newfound independence by sexually assaulting the blonde reporter." Well, sure, what other motive for an assault could there be, given that Logan is, in Wilson’s words, a "gutsy stunner" with "Hollywood good looks"? And how else do Egyptians celebrate anyway but with a gang assault? It's not like she deserved it, but well, she is hot, right?

155 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:58:08am

re: #148 moderatelyradicalliberal

Letting black men serve as soilders would have undermined the whole rationale for slavery. People who are supposed to be subhuman beasts of burden can't be good fighters can they? Plus if you gave them guns, who would they be most inclined to shoot at?

Well, yeah that's why they rejected Cleburne's idea. My point in bringing him up is that their rejection of his idea proves that the war was about slavery and preserving white supremacy in the south and the revisionists never will admit that. They count on the person they're talking with not knowing history.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:58:53am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

YEah just read it. What an ssshole and the commenters are even worse.

Oh, fuck him. Am now so angry I need more coffee, and possibly a trip to the shooting range.

158 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:59:29am

re: #148 moderatelyradicalliberal

I could probably get behind freed slaves blasting slave owners and sympathizers. In a big way, even.

159 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:59:39am

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, fuck him. Am now so angry I need more coffee, and possibly a trip to the shooting range.

This should calm you down.

Or maybe not.

160 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:59:47am

re: #142 Gus 802

Should still be there. I just did a ctl + F5. Try this.

That did the trick.

Lara Logan is lucky she’s alive.
Her liberal belief system almost got her killed on Friday. This talented reporter will never be the same.

She was a librul blonde doing a man's work. Of course she had it coming.

//

The man is a goddamned sociopath.

161 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:59:53am

re: #125 Gus 802

OT...

@EricBoehlert Eric Boehlert
Stunning: @andrewbreitbart blogger Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack; http://bit.ly/ff4UIr #beneathcontempt

Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit blames Logan for sexual attack...

Actually, I would expect this piece of crap to take this line... but before now.
He must have seen how he was being upstaged by Debbie and Nir....

162 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:00:16am

re: #152 celticdragon

I didn't see it.

Okay, we have a new bedrock principle of conservatism...unless they are teabaggers with AR-15's, of course...

Nice dig at every living Egyptian who came out to protest 30 years of dictatorship...

Blame the librul MSM for not fellating Breitbart enough...

Plenty to mock or be ashamed of depending on whether you wrote the drivel...but any tweet he put up blaming Lara may have been taken down. There is still enough to hang him on his petard.

These are truly awful people and it's not an act either. If it was an act, they could turn it off, but the ugliness is consistent.

163 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:00:23am

EDL enlists convicted terrorist....
EDL partners with far-right US Jewish group

The head of the EDL’s Jewish division Roberta Moore has announced a partnership with far-right American group the Jewish Task Force on the EDL Facebook page.

The JTF leader Victor Vancier has also posted a podcast where he said: “We were contacted by the English Defence League last few weeks and we have agreed we want to work together on joint projects. They are a major organisation, with mass media coverage.

“I wanted to be sure they were not the BNP, we would never work Holocaust deniers or Nazis. They wave Israeli flags, they support the Jewish people. They want Jewish members. We are happy to work with them to save England from the millions of Muslim invaders. We want to work as a united front.”

More on Victor Vancier


In 1987, he was convicted of doing a series of bombings in order to free Soviet Jews during his time with the JDL.[1] He served over five years in federal prison for his involvement in 18 bombings in New York and Washington.[2]
...
After the election of Obama, the members of the JTF , including Mr. Vancier, have become more extreme in their views of Black and other cultures. There are continued requests on the "Ask JTF" webcast for "African Action Stories" and a general negative outlook toward Black, Arab and mainstream Jewish culture.

Vancier has referred to Nelson Mandela as a "Black Nazi", Yasser Arafat as the "Arab Hitler" and a "Muslim terrorist pedophile who died of AIDS".[11] He has also targeted former First Lady and senator Hillary Clinton and former U.S. President George W. Bush on his website, calling Clinton "Hillary Sodom Arafat" and Bush "Jorge Wahabi Bush" whom he calls a "low, disgusting traitor" and "excrement".[11] He also uses language such as "schvartze" when referring to African-Americans and "kike" for Jews he considers to be traitors.[11] JTF's messages have been condemned for alleged racism by the Anti-Defamation League and the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:01:39am

re: #159 Alouette

This should calm you down.

Or maybe not.

Fucking moronic bitch.

165 Big Steve  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:03:04am

Thought the "Tree Lobsters" comic today would be of particular funniness to LGF readers.....Tree Lobsters

166 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:03:05am

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

She's been one for quite some time. No point in lightening up, so she doubles up on it whenever the opportunity presents itself.

167 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:03:31am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

EDL enlists convicted terrorist...
EDL partners with far-right US Jewish group

More on Victor Vancier

Exquisitely delicate use of "alleged" in the last line.

168 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:04:02am

re: #159 Alouette

This should calm you down.

Or maybe not.

OK, so just so we are clear, has Muslim men wanting to rape white women replaced the classic black men wanting to rape white women? The same old meme, just switch the group the meme is being directed against.

169 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:04:17am

re: #143 theheat

Freed slaves fighting for the South so whitey could keep slaves. What a terrific idea.
//

Yep. Further reading will show you that Cleburne's memorandum on the subject was suppressed. A lot of southern politicians got very upset, and one was honest enough to state that if blacks could be effective soldiers then their whole basis for the propriety of chattel slavery was wrong; e.g. they were fully human and could as capable as a white man.

170 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:04:37am

12:07 PM MDT

I already need some brain bleach.

171 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:05:18am

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

Check this out at Salon, BTW.

Amazing, how screwed up people can be.

In a stunningly offensive blog post titled "Lara Logan, CBS Reporter and Warzone 'It Girl,' Raped Repeatedly Amid Egypt Celebration" for LA Weekly, writer Simone Wilson managed to mention Logan’s "shocking good looks and ballsy knack for pushing her way to the heart of the action" before getting to the assault itself. She then went on to imagine how it happened: "In a rush of frenzied excitement, some Egyptian protestors apparently consummated their newfound independence by sexually assaulting the blonde reporter." Well, sure, what other motive for an assault could there be, given that Logan is, in Wilson’s words, a "gutsy stunner" with "Hollywood good looks"? And how else do Egyptians celebrate anyway but with a gang assault? It's not like she deserved it, but well, she is hot, right?

My God - there is just no end to it.
Anyone that turns "cheerleader" or drops the meme "she had it coming" are just as vile as the rapists themselves.
Right up there.

172 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:05:58am

re: #168 moderatelyradicalliberal

OK, so just so we are clear, has Muslim men wanting to rape white women replaced the classic black men wanting to rape white women? The same old meme, just switch the group the meme is being directed against.

They'd have used it against us Irish, but they hold that the drink interfered.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:06:01am

re: #160 celticdragon

That did the trick.

She was a librul blonde doing a man's work. Of course she had it coming.

//

The man is a goddamned sociopath.

I'm interested to learn that being a news reporter is a 'liberal belief system'. Of course, Hoft and Schlussel and their buddies will never have to go to a dangerous foreign place to actually report what's happening. They just make shit up.

They're gloating. They're actually gloating that an American journalist was beaten and raped on assignment, because she's a 'liberal', and therefore must be stupid and think all Muslims are fluffy bunnies.

May the curse of Mary Malone and her nine blind illegitimate children chase them so far over the hills of damnation that the Lord God Almighty Himself can't find them with a telescope.

May they rot in hell.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:06:42am

re: #162 moderatelyradicalliberal

These are truly awful people and it's not an act either. If it was an act, they could turn it off, but the ugliness is consistent.

Beauty is skin deep, but malicious and hate-ridden goes to the bone.

Fuck them. Fuck them a LOT.

175 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:07:24am

re: #171 Ericus58

My God - there is just no end to it.
Anyone that turns "cheerleader" or drops the meme "she had it coming" are just as vile as the rapists themselves.
Right up there.

And just think -- we've got over 20 months before the next presidential election. There's plenty of time for the GOP to dig even deeper and find more depths of insanity.

I'm sorely tempted to stock up on popcorn and booze in the meantime.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:08:01am

re: #168 moderatelyradicalliberal

OK, so just so we are clear, has Muslim men wanting to rape white women replaced the classic black men wanting to rape white women? The same old meme, just switch the group the meme is being directed against.

I'm sure these folks also believe that black men want to rape white women. Just about everyone wants to rape white women.

//

177 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:08:13am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

They'd have used it against us Irish, but they hold that the drink interfered.

Ah yes of course, too drunk and always fighting to rape.

178 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:09:09am

re: #159 Alouette

This should calm you down.

Or maybe not.

Debbie Schlussel can't seem to understand how here moronic screeds have anything to do with inciting people emotions, mentally unbalanced or otherwise. That post was frustratingly moronic.

To tie in the 'Die Hard' references up thread: she's practically standing on a street corner in Harlem with a 'I hate n*****' sign then ranting about how violent black people are.

179 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:09:33am

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

Notice the complete lack of reflection when the oh-so-noble Christians and Jews they support are sometimes slaughtered when living in close proximity to those that hate them.

They must be begging for it. Those liberal ideas of theirs and all.

These pundits are repulsive right to the bone.

180 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:09:53am

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure these folks also believe that black men want to rape white women. Just about everyone wants to rape white women.

//

I don't know how any white woman manages to leave her house. As a black woman I have no such fears of course.

//

181 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:10:35am

The article continues:

Derrick Johnson, of the Mississippi chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) said on Tuesday that Barbour's refusal to speak out against the proposal was "curious."

"I find it curious that the governor won't come out and clearly denounce the efforts of the Sons of Confederate Veterans to honor Nathan Bedford Forrest," Johnson told the AP. "As the head of the state, he shouldn't tap dance around the question." [emphasis added - ed]

I just wanted to add that these people are no longer tap dancing around the question; they have been full body lapdancing with it since 2008.

182 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:10:45am

re: #168 moderatelyradicalliberal

OK, so just so we are clear, has Muslim men wanting to rape white women replaced the classic black men wanting to rape white women? The same old meme, just switch the group the meme is being directed against.

Didn't you know? Only white women are ever raped, or kidnapped, or killed, and never by white men.

///

183 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:10:46am

Examples of this need to be pointed out everytime someone says some crap "but the liberals are the real racists!" I have no doubt that whose side these people would be on if we were around in the Civil Rights era.

184 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:11:27am

Somebody needs to affix a General Sherman license plate to a monster truck and drive through this asshole's house

185 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:11:30am

BBL

186 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:11:50am

re: #182 Lidane

I think all the sex crimes are committed by gay white men, aren't they?
//

187 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:12:13am

re: #124 celticdragon

Go read "Confederates In The Attic".

Andersonville is a real hot topic for Southern apologists. The only way the camp could even be turned into a National Park was to agree to ignore what really happened there and make it about POW's from all wars. Locals in Georgia have memorial dinners honoring Andersonville commandant Henry Wirz.

Seriously.

He is seen as a martyr who just did his best for all those Northern boys who died with the best of intentions.

I wish I was joking.


You see, it could be a monument to the amazing prowess of the Confederate armed forces, who captured more Yankees than they had places to put 'em in...

188 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:12:23am

re: #184 SpaceJesus

Somebody needs to affix a General Sherman license plate to a monster truck and drive through this asshole's house

While listening to Slayer?

189 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:12:38am

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

Fucking moronic bitch.

I was there yesterday AM. It's coming back now.

It's bad enough the savagery: the craven use of savage events to justify sacred cows and dogma is just as savage, but merely wrapped in a cheap plastic box of supposed intellectualism. It's still smelly and vile inside.

190 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:13:23am

re: #186 theheat

I think all the sex crimes are committed by gay white men, aren't they?
//

That's what the religious nutjobs keep telling me. =P

191 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:13:30am

re: #188 theheat

naw, more like this


Youtube Video
192 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:13:45am

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm interested to learn that being a news reporter is a 'liberal belief system'. Of course, Hoft and Schlussel and their buddies will never have to go to a dangerous foreign place to actually report what's happening. They just make shit up.

They're gloating. They're actually gloating that an American journalist was beaten and raped on assignment, because she's a 'liberal', and therefore must be stupid and think all Muslims are fluffy bunnies.

May the curse of Mary Malone and her nine blind illegitimate children chase them so far over the hills of damnation that the Lord God Almighty Himself can't find them with a telescope.

May they rot in hell.

What happened to Laura Logan could have happened at a frat party. Rape is a part of every culture and most women are raped by men who are of the same culture and/or race. Only a racist would see cross cultural rape as somehow worse than inter cultural rape.

193 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:14:21am

I meant intra cultural rape.

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:15:07am

re: #180 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't know how any white woman manages to leave her house. As a black woman I have no such fears of course.

//

I usually just sit at home, shivering, and wearing several pairs of underwear.

//And I didn't know you were a woman! Figuring out everyone's gender here is a bit of an ongoing project.

195 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:15:54am

re: #169 oaktree

Yep. Further reading will show you that Cleburne's memorandum on the subject was suppressed. A lot of southern politicians got very upset, and one was honest enough to state that if blacks could be effective soldiers then their whole basis for the propriety of chattel slavery was wrong; e.g. they were fully human and could as capable as a white man.

They had enough trouble selling the concept of negro soldiers to the Union army...

196 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:17:52am

This is beyond depressing. I cannot for the life of me figure out how when an American (or employee of a famous American broadcast company) gets hurt or killed overseas, a significant portion of our population actually takes sadistic pleasure in it.

What. The. Fuck. happened to Americans? What the hell destroyed our innate empathy and replaced it with something twisted and evil? How in the hell did the asshole Juror #10 from 12 Angry Men get to become a celebrated part of national dialogue?

Just read any comments section where an unarmed black men or boy gets shot repeatedly by the police in Mobile or some such, for extra flavor.

I don't know how we came to hate ourselves, and I don't know how to stop it.

197 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:18:00am

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

I usually just sit at home, shivering, and wearing several pairs of underwear.

That's because of those San Francisco Values of yours.

198 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:18:12am

Another pattern: those that seem to take the most negative look upon the events in Egypt seem to also celebrate the gift of Lara Logan: raped by heathen Islamists for the sin of being a naive liberal.

Yes, I think it's that simple and I'm not overly cynical about it. This is very maddening.

199 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:18:51am

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

I usually just sit at home, shivering, and wearing several pairs of underwear.

//And I didn't know you were a woman! Figuring out everyone's gender here is a bit of an ongoing project.

Lol! I thought all white women wore chastity belts!

I know. I thought HappyWarrior was a woman until yesterday.

200 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:19:51am

Just heard reports of protestors on the streets of another Middle Eastern country: in Iraq.

WTF Questionmarkeleventyleven

201 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:20:51am

re: #198 BigPapa

Another pattern: those that seem to take the most negative look upon the events in Egypt seem to also celebrate the gift of Lara Logan: raped by heathen Islamists for the sin of being a naive liberal.

Yes, I think it's that simple and I'm not overly cynical about it. This is very maddening.

Right this isn't really about Logan. This is about their racism and anything that "proves' they are right to be racists. Like I said this could have happened at a frat party. Rape is a problem everywhere and in every culture.

202 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:21:12am

Unbelievable as to what's become the norm in the right wing these days.

203 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:21:24am

re: #196 celticdragon

What. The. Fuck. happened to Americans? What the hell destroyed our innate empathy and replaced it with something twisted and evil? How in the hell did the asshole Juror #10 from 12 Angry Men get to become a celebrated part of national dialogue?

Two things have converged:

1. 9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING!!!11ty!!1!!1

2. The black guy with the African name beat the old white guy and became POTUS.

Toss both of those matches into the tinderbox that has always been race relations and the usual gender squabbles we have in this country, and the result is vile garbage like what we're seeing from the GOP lately.

204 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:23:16am

re: #203 Lidane

Two things have converged:

1. 9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING!!!11ty!!1!!1

2. The black guy with the African name beat the old white guy and became POTUS.

Toss both of those matches into the tinderbox that has always been race relations and the usual gender squabbles we have in this country, and the result is vile garbage like what we're seeing from the GOP lately.

These people are like America's Herpese virus. No matter how long you may go without a breakout of sores, the Herpes is still there.

205 theheat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:24:28am

re: #199 moderatelyradicalliberal

Some of us white women figured out those chastity belts get in the way of being trampy as we wanna be - you know - armed with birth control pills and all. All those handsome dark men out there, just waiting to weaken our knees. (Old Spice man, I'm talking to you.)

But I do wear pearls, and clutch them on occasion, to feign being offended.

206 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:25:52am

re: #175 Lidane

And just think -- we've got over 20 months before the next presidential election. There's plenty of time for the GOP to dig even deeper and find more depths of insanity.

I'm sorely tempted to stock up on popcorn and booze in the meantime.

Hell, I'm going straight to the liqueur.....
...... and pork rinds.

/why go half-ass?!

207 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:26:24am

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm pretty sure I've been pretty open on what I am on here right?

208 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:26:56am

re: #199 moderatelyradicalliberal

Lol! I thought all white women wore chastity belts!

Saddlebacking -- it's what keeps you pure. =P

///

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:27:04am

re: #201 moderatelyradicalliberal

Right this isn't really about Logan. This is about their racism and anything that "proves' they are right to be racists. Like I said this could have happened at a frat party. Rape is a problem everywhere and in every culture.

Well, it's about Logan in the sense that it's also about their hatred of 'liberals', and anyone perceived to be one.

The rapists become symbolic of the Muslim other, but Logan becomes a symbol of the dumb liberal white girl who was too stupid to think that the Muslims would hurt her. This plays into another theme of theirs, that any Westerner who disagrees with them even a little is an idiot who thinks all sorts of ridiculous and naive things.

And then there's the glee. They're not even pretending to be sorry that her imagined idiocy got her hurt.

210 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:30:23am

re: #205 theheat

Some of us white women figured out those chastity belts get in the way of being trampy as we wanna be - you know - armed with birth control pills and all. All those handsome dark men out there, just waiting to weaken our knees. (Old Spice man, I'm talking to you.)

But I do wear pearls, and clutch them on occasion, to feign being offended.

LOL!

211 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:31:07am

re: #208 Lidane

Saddlebacking -- it's what keeps you pure. =P

///

LOL!

212 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:32:47am

re: #203 Lidane

Two things have converged:

1. 9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING!!!11ty!!1!!1

2. The black guy with the African name beat the old white guy and became POTUS.

Toss both of those matches into the tinderbox that has always been race relations and the usual gender squabbles we have in this country, and the result is vile garbage like what we're seeing from the GOP lately.

This cartoon sizes it up pretty well...

Image: birthers.jpg

213 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:33:26am

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, it's about Logan in the sense that it's also about their hatred of 'liberals', and anyone perceived to be one.

The rapists become symbolic of the Muslim other, but Logan becomes a symbol of the dumb liberal white girl who was too stupid to think that the Muslims would hurt her. This plays into another theme of theirs, that any Westerner who disagrees with them even a little is an idiot who thinks all sorts of ridiculous and naive things.

And then there's the glee. They're not even pretending to be sorry that her imagined idiocy got her hurt.

Thank you for so eloquently saying what I wanted to, minus the threats of violence and random outbursts of "shit heads shit heads shit heads".

214 makeitstop  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:36:35am

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

I usually just sit at home, shivering, and wearing several pairs of underwear.

Despite the subject matter being discussed here, that made me laugh out loud. Thank you.

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:36:37am

re: #207 ProLifeLiberal

I'm pretty sure I've been pretty open on what I am on here right?

I think you're male, college aged, and a recent convert to Islam. Am I correct?

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:37:08am

re: #208 Lidane

Saddlebacking -- it's what keeps you pure. =P

///

Dan Savage, upon learning about that, commented that if he and the boyfriend get married, Terry can wear white.

218 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:38:34am

re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist

Dan Savage, upon learning about that, commented that if he and the boyfriend get married, Terry can wear white.

Heh. That's awesome. Dan Savage is great. :D

219 M. Dubious  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:38:52am

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, it's about Logan in the sense that it's also about their hatred of 'liberals', and anyone perceived to be one.

The rapists become symbolic of the Muslim other, but Logan becomes a symbol of the dumb liberal white girl who was too stupid to think that the Muslims would hurt her. This plays into another theme of theirs, that any Westerner who disagrees with them even a little is an idiot who thinks all sorts of ridiculous and naive things.

And then there's the glee. They're not even pretending to be sorry that her imagined idiocy got her hurt.

Are the fuckers gleeful?! That is (almost) unbelievable.

220 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:39:58am

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, it's about Logan in the sense that it's also about their hatred of 'liberals', and anyone perceived to be one.

The rapists become symbolic of the Muslim other, but Logan becomes a symbol of the dumb liberal white girl who was too stupid to think that the Muslims would hurt her. This plays into another theme of theirs, that any Westerner who disagrees with them even a little is an idiot who thinks all sorts of ridiculous and naive things.

And then there's the glee. They're not even pretending to be sorry that her imagined idiocy got her hurt.


Well said. I noticed that the right seems to have difficulty dealing with hostage situations appropriately. I don't know if you remember the Jill Carroll situation but a lot of Lizards at the time thought she was a traitor. The same situation occurred when Iran captured some British sailors and made them read statements, etc. The righties seemed to have little or no sympathy for the hostages. In many instances they actually loathed the victims. Very strange.

221 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:41:23am

re: #219 harald

Are the fuckers gleeful?! That is (almost) unbelievable.

Of course they're gleeful. She works for the "lamestream" media, making her a dumb, filthy librul.

If she'd worked at Fox News, they'd all be outraged.

222 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:42:10am

re: #215 Gus 802

Lame...

@mattklewis Matt Lewis
In defense of Haley Barbour - http://aol.it/hjWcWU

I had not heard of Matt Lewis, so I looked at his bio. A snippet:

Previously, Matt served as a contributing writer for Townhall.com, the nation’s leading conservative opinion Web site, and blogged for Human Events Online.

So he defends Haley Barbour. Looks like that's being consistent, for Matt Lewis.

223 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:42:13am

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess the only thing I missed is the fact I'm very white. I have a large amount of Scandinavian Ancestry.

224 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:42:25am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

The word you're looking for is 'stupid'. They're just plain stupid.

225 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:44:29am

The Death Threat as a social media meme:

Biebermaniacs freak out over Esperanza.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:44:55am

re: #219 harald

Are the fuckers gleeful?! That is (almost) unbelievable.

Check out Debbie Schlussel's piece. I would say that 'glee' is not an unfair assessment.

227 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:45:26am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Well said. I noticed that the right seems to have difficulty dealing with hostage situations appropriately. I don't know if you remember the Jill Carroll situation but a lot of Lizards at the time thought she was a traitor. The same situation occurred when Iran captured some British sailors and made them read statements, etc. The righties seemed to have little or no sympathy for the hostages. In many instances they actually loathed the victims. Very strange.

It's because all those brave members of the 101st Chairborne think they'd be Rambo if they were caught or put in that situation themselves. It's a bunch of macho bullshit from a bunch of armchair soldiers. Fuck 'em. =P

228 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:46:18am

re: #222 wrenchwench

I had not heard of Matt Lewis, so I looked at his bio. A snippet:

So he defends Haley Barbour. Looks like that's being consistent, for Matt Lewis.

I found out about him through Bloggingheads where he used to vlog with Bill Scher of Liberal Oasis. It's too bad to see him defending Barbour because he was often reasonable when appearing with Bill Scher.

229 M. Dubious  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:47:55am

re: #221 Lidane

High profile reporter, skilled in her field, body like a godess and dressed to kill. Recipe for intimidation.

Where can I find the gleeful hate fest you refer to? HotAir?

230 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:48:07am

re: #225 Alouette

The Death Threat as a social media meme:

Biebermaniacs freak out over Esperanza.

Speaking of Bieber...

Other highlights from the story:

- The Canadian-born Bieber never plans on becoming an American citizen. "You guys are evil," he says with a laugh. "Canada's the best country in the world. We go to the doctor and we don't need to worry about paying him, but here, your whole life, you're broke because of medical bills. My bodyguard's baby was premature, and now he has to pay for it. In Canada, if your baby's premature, he stays in the hospital as long as he needs to, and then you go home."

231 M. Dubious  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:48:39am

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

Link?

232 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:49:38am

re: #229 harald

There's a Page about all of it here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

233 jaunte  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:49:45am

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

Check out Debbie Schlussel's piece. I would say that 'glee' is not an unfair assessment.


......

Schlussel: "So sad, too bad, Lara. No one told her to go there. She knew the risks. And she should have known what Islam is all about. Now she knows. Or so we’d hope. But in the case of the media vis-a-vis Islam, that’s a hope that’s generally unanswered.

This never happened to her or any other mainstream media reporter when Mubarak was allowed to treat his country of savages in the only way they can be controlled."


She's really letting some nasty loose.

234 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:50:02am

re: #231 harald

Link?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

235 Girth  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:50:26am

re: #230 Gus 802

The Antichrist is calling us evil? Now that's chutzpah!

236 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:50:34am

here's haley barbour "not going around denouncing people"

"The Obama Administration and the Democratic Congress have taken the biggest lurch to the left in policy in American history. There have been no Congress, no Administration that has run this far to the left in such a small period of time."

237 M. Dubious  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:51:20am

re: #232 Lidane

re: #234 Gus 802

Excellent. Thanks.

238 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:51:59am

re: #237 harald

Also, Charles has a new post upstairs all about it.

239 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:56:57am

re: #230 Gus 802

Speaking of Bieber...

Other highlights from the story:

You just had to remind me the Beebs is Canuck, didn't you?

240 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:57:38am

re: #223 ProLifeLiberal

Scandinavian Ancestry.

GREAT!!
That means you can BAKE!!...right?
//

241 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 11:59:07am

re: #240 reloadingisnotahobby

Hahaha, no. I've burned soup in the past, though I am a little better now.

242 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:05:59pm

re: #230 Gus 802

LOL. That makes me actually like the kid a little bit.

I'm very biased about the issue of course. ;)

243 sagehen  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:52:21pm

re: #239 b_sharp

You just had to remind me the Beebs is Canuck, didn't you?

So is Celine Dion.

We should invade your country, kill your leaders, and convert you all to Springsteenism.

244 rwmofo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:57:09pm

“I don’t go around denouncing people,” he said, according to the Associated Press, when asked for a response to the proposal. “That’s not going to happen. I don’t even denounce the news media.”

Heh. I will. News Media, I denounce you!

245 RabbitRunner  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:59:31pm

go to Politico and see how all the racist cretins there are trying to blame this all on Obama and the librull media.

246 Girl with a Pearl Earring  Sat, Feb 19, 2011 9:24:14am

FTA: "it is believed one of the earliest members of (and first “Grand Wizard” to) the white supremacist group Ku Klux Klan."

The wily Nathan Bedford Forrest was indeed the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. He should not be honored in any way, regardless of what sentiments people may have about the Civil War and the Confederacy.

If you are interested in Civil War history, I highly recommend the recent book "Master of War: The Life of General George H. Thomas" by Benson Bobrick. It's a portrait in true leadership. Thomas, the "Rock of Chickamauga", commanded the army of the Cumberland. He never lost a battle. Thomas had to contend with Forrest in Tennessee.

Thomas was born in Virginia to a slaveholding family, but opposed slavery and chose to fight for the Union. After the war he warned about the KKK and fought to stop it. During Reconstruction Thomas worked to protect freedmen from white abuses. Thomas died before he could write his memoirs.

Another note of interest: During the war, Thomas never allowed his men to steal and plunder, unlike Sherman. It is my humble contention that had Thomas been given command instead of Sherman, the South would not have suffered the devastation and destruction it did under Sherman, because Thomas would never have allowed it. Sherman collaborated with Grant to undermine Thomas every step of the way, as we now know from their written correspondence.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]


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