Michele Bachmann (R-Mars) Panders to the Birther Base

The new GOP talking point: ‘I take Obama at his word’

WingnutsFebruary 2011 • Views: 26,029

Here’s Michele Bachmann with crazier hair than usual, refusing to say she believes President Obama is a US citizen or a Christian; instead she uses the weasel words we’re hearing from every Republican: “I take the President at his word.”

Are there people who really don’t see what’s going on here? The GOP is afraid of their crazy base of extremists. They know that if they say the wrong thing, they could be the next casualty of the Tea Party electorate. So instead they try their best to ride the tiger without pissing it off; they make vague noises as if they’re not joining in the insanity, while still getting the point across that Barack Obama just might be a sekrit Moslem bent on destroying the American way of life.

It’s craven pandering politics at its lowest.

Video

Also see

New Poll: 51% of Likely GOP Voters Are Birthers

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150 comments

Kragar Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:50:15am

If they lose the crazies, who is left to vote for them?

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:52:10am

I think the reverse is true with Bachmann, she doesn't believe Obama is a citizen or a christian but won't say so out loud because she is afraid to come off as even crazier than she is.

iceweasel Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:52:16am

I take the President at his word

How refreshingly magnanimous of her.

Who's going to take the Joe Wilson role this time and scream at Obama "You lie"?

makeitstop Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:53:07am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If they lose the crazies, who is left to vote for them?

Nobody.

I find it hilarious that just a few years ago Karl Rove was daydreaming about a permanent Republican majority in this country. Now they're diving for scraps of the electorate, and every scrap is crazier than the one before it.

Jeff In Ohio Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:53:49am

I don't think Michelle's afraid of the crazy base, I think she is the crazy base.

albusteve Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:54:01am

those phony Paul Newman, dayglow blue contacts just kill me....I think it's some sort of hypnosis device

Interesting Times Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:56:16am

re: #6 albusteve

those phony Paul Newman, dayglow blue contacts just kill me...I think it's some sort of hypnosis device

Image: garymitchellbachmann.jpg

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:56:33am

Of course, she knows that her allies in the Nutty Corps will turn on her fast if she calls out birtherism for the lunatic movement it is.

wrenchwench Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:56:46am

That looks like a headless raven on her head.

albusteve Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:57:07am

re: #4 makeitstop

Nobody.

I find it hilarious that just a few years ago Karl Rove was daydreaming about a permanent Republican majority in this country. Now they're diving for scraps of the electorate, and every scrap is crazier than the one before it.

don't know if this is a scrap or not, but it seems like a major victory for republicans...however loony the right is, they can still pass legislation
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:58:10am

re: #9 wrenchwench

That looks like a headless raven on her head.

Image: nic-cage-birdhair.jpg

Coincidence?

Jeff In Ohio Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:58:41am

re: #9 wrenchwench

That looks like a headless raven on her head.

Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
`Sir,' said I, `or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you' - here I opened wide the door; -
Darkness there, and nothing more.

Yes indeed!

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:58:59am

re: #10 albusteve

Heh. They have no clue how much they're going to piss people off by doing that.

Time for rhetoric to meet reality.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:59:02am

re: #11 Fozzie Bear

damnit link didn't work.

Basically what I am saying is that her hair reminds me of the pic of Nicholas Cage with a bird for hair.

elizajane Thu, Feb 17, 2011 9:59:34am

This would be funnier if the "base" were not so broad, if this were really just about a fringe of extremists. But evidently over half of likely Republican primary voters believe this crap. Bachmann here is not off on her usual far-out twig; she's just joining the chorus of spineless Republican "leaders" who know that the "he's not one of us" line plays very well to over half of their most enthusiastic members.

wrenchwench Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:01:05am

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

damnit link didn't work.

Basically what I am saying is that her hair reminds me of the pic of Nicholas Cage with a bird for hair.

This one?

Image: 3403651739_f32ea2e4e5.jpg

albusteve Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:01:29am

re: #13 Obdicut

Heh. They have no clue how much they're going to piss people off by doing that.

Time for rhetoric to meet reality.

everybody is pissed these days...it's pretty ho hum

Killgore Trout Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:01:45am

Ed Morrisey think this was a clever plot to keep her from talking about the "failed" economic stimulus.

barflytom Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:01:54am

re: #13 Obdicut

Heh. They have no clue how much they're going to piss people off by doing that.

Time for rhetoric to meet reality.

Who are they going to piss off ? Public sector unions ?

That's a sign they're doing something right.

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:02:16am

I believe that to these people 'integrity' is a new model of car from Hyundai, and thus to be feared.

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:02:30am

re: #19 barflytom

Who are they going to piss off ? Public sector unions ?

That's a sign they're doing something right.

Yeah. Cops, firemen, and teachers-- those are definitely the troublemakers bring us down.

Charles Johnson Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:05:59am

re: #21 Obdicut

Yeah. Cops, firemen, and teachers-- those are definitely the troublemakers bring us down.

I'm so glad to see the GOP focusing on the real problems in America - teacher's unions. Yeah. We'll show those scumbag teachers who's boss.

Kragar Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:06:44am

re: #22 Charles

I'm so glad to see the GOP focusing on the real problems in America - teacher's unions. Yeah. We'll show those scumbag teachers who's boss.

They have to stand up to those commies.
/

barflytom Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:07:41am

re: #21 Obdicut

Yeah. Cops, firemen, and teachers-- those are definitely the troublemakers bring us down.

...and bureaucrats and all the other members of the priviledged public sector Mandarin class. The states which are trying to rein in public sector pay and pensions and benefits are actually doing them a favour in the long term. It's no good being entitled to a gold-plated pension on paper if the state has gone bust when you retire.

Kronocide Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:08:16am

re: #19 barflytom

Who are they going to piss off ? Public sector unions ?

That's a sign they're doing something right.

Pissing off moronic populist right wingers is doing something right.

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:08:30am

re: #22 Charles

How dare they negotiate for pensions? They should have known the states wouldn't properly fund the pension obligations and raid them for the general budget. Stupid greedy teachers. Some of them make half of what a marketing executive does.

Stanghazi Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:09:39am

re: #22 Charles

I'm so glad to see the GOP focusing on the real problems in America - teacher's unions. Yeah. We'll show those scumbag teachers who's boss.

Here's a photo of those pesky teachers in the WI Capitol

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:09:55am

We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.
re: #24 barflytom

...and bureaucrats and all the other members of the priviledged public sector Mandarin class. The states which are trying to rein in public sector pay and pensions and benefits are actually doing them a favour in the long term. It's no good being entitled to a gold-plated pension on paper if the state has gone bust when you retire.

Did someone force the states to make promises they never intended to keep?

schnapp Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:10:51am

Police and firemen are exempt, like they should be

Jaerik Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:11:04am

You can't "take someone at their word" when you're otherwise screaming "you lie" at them with every waking breath.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:11:24am

re: #29 schnapp

Police and firemen are exempt, like they should be

What makes police and firemen more valuable than teachers?

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:11:47am

re: #24 barflytom

...and bureaucrats and all the other members of the priviledged public sector Mandarin class.

Oh yeah, those 'mandarins' at the DMV. Such a sweet-ass job. And those people that run homeless shelters, work with child services-- easy work with nothing to it. Bunch of spoiled brats.

The states which are trying to rein in public sector pay and pensions and benefits are actually doing them a favour in the long term.

Because promising people pensions in lieu of pay raises and then reneging on that promise is doing someone a favor.

Yeah.

It's no good being entitled to a gold-plated pension on paper if the state has gone bust when you retire.

True. But we promised those pensions to those workers. They did the work, and they were promised a certain amount of recompense. To suddenly renege on that is theft, not fiscal responsibility.

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:12:40am

re: #29 schnapp

Police and firemen are exempt, like they should be

What about people who work for child services, or in the courts, or as building inspectors?

Exempt? Or is there some reason they shouldn't be?

garhighway Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:13:22am

re: #32 Obdicut

Oh yeah, those 'mandarins' at the DMV. Such a sweet-ass job. And those people that run homeless shelters, work with child services-- easy work with nothing to it. Bunch of spoiled brats.

/

Because promising people pensions in lieu of pay raises and then reneging on that promise is doing someone a favor.

Yeah.

True. But we promised those pensions to those workers. They did the work, and they were promised a certain amount of recompense. To suddenly renege on that is theft, not fiscal responsibility.

Remember when the right believed in the sanctity of contracts?

Those were good times.

Ericus58 Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:13:31am

re: #19 barflytom

Who are they going to piss off ? Public sector unions ?

That's a sign they're doing something right.

It's a cart-before-the-horse approach the Gov is trying here.
Has he even went to the Unions and held serious discussions, seeking their input and buy-in to the budget issue's - sought their support?

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:15:31am

re: #24 barflytom

As a union firefighter, Tom. Explain to how taking away collective bargining rights are going to be good for me in the long run???? As a matter of fact explain to me how actively working to depress the wages of all workers is going to be good for any of us in the long run........ Let me guess..... If the top one percent ends up with all the money maybe they'll give me 20 bucks to wa their rolls for em

SpaceJesus Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:16:11am

so is it basically the strategy of the GOP to prey upon the aging section of America that is old, still kind of racist, and reaching the doorstep of senility? Is that what the game plan is here?

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:16:18am

The sentiment of "fuck everybody else, as long as they don't touch my job." is going to put us ALL in the poorhouse.

Do wingnuts not get that workers are also the customers of the business they purportedly defend? If cutting taxes generates growth by giving people more money to spend, then how do they explain the idea they seem to have that states paying wages to people is wasted money?

Does it only trickle down, and never up, in their insane view?

The GOP is just evil, because even they can't possibly believe the bullshit they are slinging. It doesn't make any sense.

barflytom Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:16:28am

re: #32 Obdicut

True. But we promised those pensions to those workers. They did the work, and they were promised a certain amount of recompense. To suddenly renege on that is theft, not fiscal responsibility.

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

Kronocide Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:16:51am

Unions, it's the Unions. Full of Muslims, Jews, and commies, those unions. They are destroying AMERICA!FUCKYEAH! for our children.

It's time to take AMERICA!FUCKYEAH! back.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:16:56am

re: #37 SpaceJesus

so is it basically the strategy of the GOP to prey upon the aging section of America that is old, still kind of racist, and reaching the doorstep of senility? Is that what the game plan is here?

Yes.

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:18:00am

re: #39 barflytom

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

Those promises are still quite easily funded, by raising taxes back up to reasonable levels.

Stanghazi Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:18:06am

re: #39 barflytom

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

What part of the word CONTRACT don't you understand?

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:19:05am

re: #39 barflytom

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

So let's raise taxes, make cuts in areas that aren't contractual obligations, and pay for the pensions. The money is going to go right back into the economy anyway, so it's a very good use of taxpayer money.

iossarian Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:19:07am

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

...raising taxes...

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?

Stanghazi Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:19:13am

Gettin' Interesting now

Democrats in the Wisconsin state Senate have staged a walkout to deny Republicans a quorum with which to take up Gov. Walker's union-busting bill.

Even better, the Republican Senate president is threatening to send out the state police to round up absent Democratic senators.

Jadespring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:19:18am

re: #39 barflytom

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

And so this is a reason to sound and act like a dick?

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:19:42am

re: #39 barflytom

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

We. Those politicians were the elected representatives of the people of their states.

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:19:47am

Apparently contracts dont mean a thing to him..... i am a public sector employee...... the cities have been in trouble for years..... for me, I have enjoyed exactly 1% increase in pay since 2003.....yup...we are just killin this state

Kronocide Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:20:22am

What I think Obama is meeting with Jobs, Schmidt, and Zuckerberg about

The Oatmeal

garhighway Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:20:31am

re: #39 barflytom

"We" ? The point is that politicians have been buying votes with unfunded promises for years. Whether you call it "theft" or anything else, if the money isn't there then those obligations aren't going to get paid are they.

If you call it "theft", you are demonstrating a poor command of the English language.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:20:47am

re: #43 Stanley Sea

What part of the word CONTRACT don't you understand?

Wonder what the overlap is between people who had nothing but contempt for folks lured into untenable mortgages, who have nothing but sympathy for states lured into untenable pension promises.

Ericus58 Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:21:49am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Wonder what the overlap is between people who had nothing but contempt for folks lured into untenable mortgages, who have nothing but sympathy for states lured into untenable pension promises.

Thread Winner.

Stanghazi Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:21:57am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Wonder what the overlap is between people who had nothing but contempt for folks lured into untenable mortgages, who have nothing but sympathy for states lured into untenable pension promises.

Oh good one. Yep.

gamark Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:21:59am

re: #43 Stanley Sea

What part of the word CONTRACT don't you understand?

The contract expired, no? Or did I misread something.

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:22:08am

Oh you've got to be kidding me:

Domestic abuse counts as a pre-existing condition.

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:22:17am

State employees work hard as the next person. Of course, it's easier to rumble about those damn bureaucrats and how greedy they are. Fuck this noise.

schnapp Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:22:59am

I have a lot of sympathy for police amd firefighters because they put their lives on the line every day and I generally only support unions over health and safety

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:23:07am

re: #56 Obdicut

Oh you've got to be kidding me:

Domestic abuse counts as a pre-existing condition.

Jesus Christ on a stick.

Jadespring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:23:20am

re: #49 dmon

Apparently contracts dont mean a thing to him... i am a public sector employee... the cities have been in trouble for years... for me, I have enjoyed exactly 1% increase in pay since 2003...yup...we are just killin this state

1%" How utterly greedy of you.

I wonder if people realize that if you've only got 1% over seven years that you're actually taking a pay CUT in terms of the real value of your income.

Nah....what am I thinking, that's to complex for some peoples brains to understand.

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:24:07am

re: #58 schnapp

In Ohio, if Kasich gets his way, we (firefighters) will be barred from negotiating health and safety issues.

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:25:11am

re: #61 dmon

In Ohio, if Kasich gets his way, we (firefighters) will be barred from negotiating health and safety issues.

I hope you guys fight him hard.

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:25:39am

re: #58 schnapp

Ah, then you highly approve of public sector unions for garbagemen, road crews, sandhogs, etc, right?

Gus Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:25:39am

Wingnuts don't care about teachers unions. In fact most of them don't care about teachers, make that education, since the majority are anti-education to being with. And make that anti public education which is the typical rant(s) we here from the newly minted lunatic base intent on turning this country into a libertarian paradise where the private sector replaces all aspects of the public sector.

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:27:00am

It's unbelievable to me. When the left wonders about why certain CEOs make more money than you, me, our our children will ever have, we get accused of class warfare but when the right, in this case governor Walker tries to fuck over hardworking people, it's just fine and dandy. The bullshit narrative that many on the right buy is that government employees aren't hard working. It's nonsense.

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:27:04am

re: #60 Jadespring

I know, I know.......I'm just a greedy bastard........

I was personally responsible for selling shit mortgages as investments....... therefor I should be punished by my employer....and as BarflyTom says......I'll be better off in the long run

P.S. Tom, at least in this state, 10% of my pay goes to funding the pension they want to disembowel

Achilles Tang Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:28:11am

re: #49 dmon

Apparently contracts dont mean a thing to him... i am a public sector employee... the cities have been in trouble for years... for me, I have enjoyed exactly 1% increase in pay since 2003...yup...we are just killin this state

I wonder what the answer would be if a tax phobic Republican was asked to explain the difference between balancing a budget by reducing the income of some by a certain amount (or firing them), versus reducing the income of everyone by a lesser amount (percentage) through higher taxes?

schnapp Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:28:38am

re: #61 dmon

That's terrible. the right to a safe workplace should come before any argumewEnts ofeconomic nature
Ok I'm sick of typing shit on my phone so I'm off . Fucking touch screen samsung swype is useless sometimes

Romantic Heretic Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:29:03am

re: #36 dmon

As a union firefighter, Tom. Explain to how taking away collective bargining rights are going to be good for me in the long run??? As a matter of fact explain to me how actively working to depress the wages of all workers is going to be good for any of us in the long run... Let me guess... If the top one percent ends up with all the money maybe they'll give me 20 bucks to wa their rolls for em

As the saying goes, "Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining."

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:29:03am

re: #67 Naso Tang

Taxes....you cant talk taxes....its in the Bible that the maximum tax rate shall be 36%

Jeff In Ohio Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:29:57am

re: #61 dmon

In Ohio, if Kasich gets his way, we (firefighters) will be barred from negotiating health and safety issues.

I predict after a couple of years of Kasich, Ohioan's will wistfully remember Bob Taft.

barflytom Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:30:06am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Wonder what the overlap is between people who had nothing but contempt for folks lured into untenable mortgages, who have nothing but sympathy for states lured into untenable pension promises.

"Lured" is an interesting way of putting it. It's the easiest thing in the world for some politician to make all sorts of long term promises, knowing they'll be long gone from office by the time the bill comes due. The unions need to accept the blame as well when they spend so much time and money lobbying for unaffordable benefits which end up bankrupting their employer (whether it's private or public sector).

gamark Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:30:10am

re: #65 HappyWarrior

When the left wonders about why certain CEOs make more money than you, me, our our children will ever have, .

What is preventing you or your children from earning high salaries?

garhighway Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:30:16am

re: #65 HappyWarrior

It's unbelievable to me. When the left wonders about why certain CEOs make more money than you, me, our our children will ever have, we get accused of class warfare but when the right, in this case governor Walker tries to fuck over hardworking people, it's just fine and dandy. The bullshit narrative that many on the right buy is that government employees aren't hard working. It's nonsense.

The "class warfare" thing just kills me. If anyone says anything about the incomes and tax rates of the top 5%, the right screams "class warfare". The fact is, those same people have been waging class warfare against everybody else for a long time, and winning. Hence the change in income distribution over the last 50 years.

Achilles Tang Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:30:59am

re: #70 dmon

Taxes...you cant talk taxes...its in the Bible that the maximum tax rate shall be 36% ( for anyone earning less than 250k)

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:31:14am

re: #72 barflytom

You're blaming people for negotiating for wages.

Are you dialing up from 1910?

Gus Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:31:24am

re: #22 Charles

I'm so glad to see the GOP focusing on the real problems in America - teacher's unions. Yeah. We'll show those scumbag teachers who's boss.

And gays.
And blacks.
And Mexicans.
And American Muslims.
And women seeking abortions.
And teleprompters.
And PBS.
And NPR.
And anyone "but themselves".

All the things we think about when looking back at the financial meltdown of 2008.

It's because the GOP has nothing. It's the party of Archie Bunker.

schnapp Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:31:42am

re: #63 Obdicut

And yeah I do. I never said I agree with the bill I just pointed put that cops and fire men are exempt.

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:31:54am

re: #73 gamark

What is preventing you or your children from earning high salaries?

That's not my point. My point is when CEOs make millions of dollars, it's fine but if a union wants to organize, people get their shit bent. It's not right.

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:32:13am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Wonder what the overlap is between people who had nothing but contempt for folks lured into untenable mortgages, who have nothing but sympathy for states lured into untenable pension promises.

I pretty much have contempt for both. I've lived within my means my entire life and never asked for a bail-out. If anyone has gotten screwed it's been the ~~middle class~~ folk who have behaved responsibly.

Socially, I like the fact that there is a safety net. It promotes stability, it is a positive moral position, and helps keep our culture on a somewhat even keel. I understand the necessity for some of the large-scale bail-outs due to the impact that a widespread failure can cause, but dislike the facts that a smaller business can not get similar consideration (fairness), and that some of these large failures are due to risk being taken without a fallback position to cover for negative consequences.

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:32:32am

Ohios proposal

No state employees can have a union.

Municipal employees cannot bargain for anything except pay and work hours

Binding arbitration will be taken away making it impossible to get a City to settle a contract

Unions are prevented from bargaining for health insurance, safety, working conditions

Kronocide Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:32:54am

I think the wealthy need unions. They should be able to collectively bargain against all these Thugopolies. Derp.

Achilles Tang Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:33:00am

re: #73 gamark

What is preventing you or your children from earning high salaries?

You are changing the subject, in case you think nobody notices.

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:34:09am

I should clarify I am not against the right of people to make however much money they want. That's fine. My problem is with right wingers who have zlitch problem with that but then propose what Kasich has in Ohio as dmon describes. If that's not being hypocritical, I don't know what it is.

gamark Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:34:12am

re: #79 HappyWarrior

I didn't say that was your point. I wanted to know how you and your children are prevented from making large CEO-like salaries? You made the statement. Is it true or not?

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:34:16am

re: #73 gamark

What is preventing you or your children from earning high salaries?

The dearth of people making a decent wage prevents more people from getting a decent wage. Wages paid are revenues gained to businesses. Labor IS the consumer base of our economy. Prosperity doesn't trickle down, it grows upward from the poor and middle class. If they can't make a decent wage, businesses will suffer.

The GOP take on economics is a perverse inversion of reality.

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:34:43am

re: #72 barflytom

Unaffordable benefits??????????

Tom, the only reason Non Union employees have benefits is because unions bargained fo them, do you honestly think your employee pays for you health insurance cause he's a good guy? Or do you think he traets you halfway decent because he has the threat of you unionizing

Sionainn Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:35:07am

re: #49 dmon

Apparently contracts dont mean a thing to him... i am a public sector employee... the cities have been in trouble for years... for me, I have enjoyed exactly 1% increase in pay since 2003...yup...we are just killin this state

In my state, when everyone else was rolling in the dough, teachers didn't get big raises like everyone else. There were too many of them, so they got screwed. Now, people are screaming that teachers need to sacrifice just like everyone else, thereby getting screwed again.

gamark Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:36:01am

re: #83 Naso Tang

You are changing the subject, in case you think nobody notices.

A lot of people are talking about a state contract in Wisconsin in a thread about Michelle Bachman. Now, who changed the subject?

Jadespring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:36:24am

re: #72 barflytom

"Lured" is an interesting way of putting it. It's the easiest thing in the world for some politician to make all sorts of long term promises, knowing they'll be long gone from office by the time the bill comes due. The unions need to accept the blame as well when they spend so much time and money lobbying for unaffordable benefits which end up bankrupting their employer (whether it's private or public sector).

You know you make it sound so easy and binary.

In my life I've sat on both sides of the negotiating table. One time as a union rep and twice as the lead management rep. I know how it all goes. One negotiation took a year and half and went to arbitration. So I think I come by my viewpoints on unions and public sector unions rightly.

As with most things it's grey, grey and more grey. I don't appreciate this sort of black and white union bashing anymore then I appreciate black and white management bashing.

Gus Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:36:35am

re: #73 gamark

What is preventing you or your children from earning high salaries?

USA! USA! USA! USA!

BishopX Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:36:43am

re: #81 dmon

Are you still barred from striking?

Jeff In Ohio Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:36:59am

re: #85 gamark

Education, opportunity and the ability to function in a corporate cutthroat environment.

What's my prize?

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:37:29am

Yep..... those teachers.... all they did was earn a masters degree to go into profession that pays them 50000 per year......

how in the hell is 50k being overpaid for a masters degree?

gamark Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:37:30am

re: #91 Gus 802

heh

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:38:31am

re: #94 dmon

Yep... those teachers... all they did was earn a masters degree to go into profession that pays them 50000 per year...

how in the hell is 50k being overpaid for a masters degree?

Because they're liberal socialists trying in indoctrinate our children into being communist drones of course...
// (massive)

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:38:31am

re: #92 BishopX
Firefighters and cops have been barred from striking since 1983...... thats why we got binding abitration in return

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:38:50am

re: #56 Obdicut

Oh you've got to be kidding me:

Domestic abuse counts as a pre-existing condition.

We will insure your health--SO LONG AS NOTHING BAD HAS ALREADY HAPPENED TO YOU.

Achilles Tang Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:39:18am

re: #89 gamark

A lot of people are talking about a state contract in Wisconsin in a thread about Michelle Bachman. Now, who changed the subject?

You did, based on a post, not on the thread.

100

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:39:22am

re: #94 dmon

Yep... those teachers... all they did was earn a masters degree to go into profession that pays them 50000 per year...

how in the hell is 50k being overpaid for a masters degree?

What's even worse is how they're bashed routinely by people who would never last a day in the classroom. I am never going to be a teacher but let me put it this way, I have loads of respect for them.

101

blueraven Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:40:33am

re: #24 barflytom

...and bureaucrats and all the other members of the priviledged public sector Mandarin class. The states which are trying to rein in public sector pay and pensions and benefits are actually doing them a favour in the long term. It's no good being entitled to a gold-plated pension on paper if the state has gone bust when you retire.

But it is fine for bank CEOs to receive huge bonuses courtesy of taxpayers. And big corporations to pay no US federal income tax.

Yes, we should go after middle class America. Total disconnect.

102

Jadespring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:41:20am

re: #81 dmon

Ohios proposal

No state employees can have a union.

Municipal employees cannot bargain for anything except pay and work hours

Binding arbitration will be taken away making it impossible to get a City to settle a contract

Unions are prevented from bargaining for health insurance, safety, working conditions

I think one of the most stupid things about this is the lack of historical knowledge. Unions came about for very good reasons. There's context.
So go right ahead and rip it all to shreds. Bust up everything. Ah good it will all be well and without any negative consequences.

Guaranteed, people will live with it for a while, until things devolve into the state where the whole thing started from in the first place and then you'll have history repeat itself.

103

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:41:41am

re: #94 dmon

Yep... those teachers... all they did was earn a masters degree to go into profession that pays them 50000 per year...

how in the hell is 50k being overpaid for a masters degree?

50K? Not until you've been teaching a WHILE.

104

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:42:02am

nearly 100 years of progress slowly being flushed down the shitter.

105

Stanghazi Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:42:25am

All In The Family
So now we have at least one report from local TV in Wisconsin that the state's Democratic senators have left the state entirely, putting them out of the reach of the state police who have been ordered to round them up so that Republicans have a quorum and can take up Gov. Walker's union-busting budget bill.

But wait. There's more.

The Senate majority leader, Scott Fitzgerald, who is ordering the state police to track down the wayward Democratic senators is the son of the head of the state police, Steve Fitzgerald, who in turn was appointed to the top spot by Walker. Steve Fitzgerald is also the father of the state's speaker of the House, Jeff Fitzgerald.

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

106

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:42:28am

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

50K? Not until you've been teaching a WHILE.

Agree...... these folks become teachers because thy want to teach......

107

HappyWarrior Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:43:43am

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

50K? Not until you've been teaching a WHILE.

Yeah, I think you're right about that. I think it's 50 K around here but 50 K here in the DC suburbs is below the median salary here. As I said, I am never gonna be a teacher but I really have a lot of respect for them since after all many of them have inspired my intellectual curiousities and they put up with a lot of crap including some of my own heh and usually are very cool and understanding.

108

Gus Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:44:10am

This is what happens when capitalism morphs into a plutocracy.

109

BishopX Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:45:14am

re: #97 dmon

Thanks!

I knew you guys were barred for striking...I didn't know the details of how it was structured.

110

Gus Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:46:14am

Worship wealth and greed even if you're piss poor. Don't complain about that because it's "un-American". Buy your lottery ticket because someday you too might be rich.

We live in a country that still thinks a groundhog can determine the climate.

111

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:46:40am

re: #105 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Oh, I hope this is true.

Didn't the Texas dems have to do this awhile back too?

112

reine.de.tout Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:46:42am

re: #88 Sionainn

In my state, when everyone else was rolling in the dough, teachers didn't get big raises like everyone else. There were too many of them, so they got screwed. Now, people are screaming that teachers need to sacrifice just like everyone else, thereby getting screwed again.

The full brunt of any tax increase needed to balance a budget will be borne by public employees (including teachers) in the form of low or zero pay adjustments, furloughs (reduced work weeks) etc.

The politicians don't want to raise taxes. Neither do they want to make the very hard decisions as to which services the governmental jurisdiction needs to STOP PROVIDING in order to balance the budget. Either option would work, but nope. The public employees bear the brunt of it.

Mind you - the LEGISLATIVE BODY will mandate which services a government jurisdiction needs to provide or not provide. Then agencies hire employees needed to do that work. Then the legislature comes back and says - oops, sorry, we don't have enough money to pay you. When I was working the mantra was, "We have to do MORE with LESS!".

Yeah, right, like that's even possible. I can't tell you how sick I got of hearing that.

And government workers work as hard as anyone else. The challenge in government work, that doesn't exist in private sector work so much, is that public employees are trying to ensure they carry out the intent of the legislative laws created for whatever service they're providing, and they must provide accountability. Which means TONS of paperwork.

One more point - when public sector employment is not funded, and agencies have to try to do MORE with LESS, that means that there's one less person helping with the lines at your DMV. And that ONE missing person will be sufficient to create a long-line back-up, whereas there would be short or no lines if that one person was there.

113

Jadespring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:47:38am

re: #108 Gus 802

This is what happens when capitalism morphs into a plutocracy.

I tend to think it's currently more like a plutarchy but it's the same general gist.

114

Romantic Heretic Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:47:41am

re: #108 Gus 802

This is what happens when capitalism morphs into a plutocracy.

I'm afraid a lot of people believe in capitalism the same way a lot of people believe in Marxism. They're cool with it as long as it rewards them, personally, with wealth and power. They'll toss it overboard the second their own ox gets gored.

115

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:48:39am

Tre: #109 BishopX

The setup is this..... The city by law cannot lock us out, we by law cannot strike

If we cant reach a contract agreement an arbitrator listens to both sides and picks one.

If this law goes thru......the city still cant lock us out, we still cant strike..... with No binding arbitration the city can simply refuse to settle and we continue under our old contract, for years, or possibly forever

116

BishopX Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:50:20am

re: #115 dmon

Is there a way of working disputes up to federal level on this? I would think that the NRLB might have something to say on this...

117

gamark Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:50:43am

re: #99 Naso Tang

You did, based on a post, not on the thread.

Is asking for clarification on a statement used to back up a point, changing the subject?

118

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:50:57am

re: #116 BishopX

Public employees are not covered under federal collective bargaining laws

119

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:51:59am

re: #118 dmon

Public employees are not covered under federal collective bargaining laws

Another case where total nationalization would solve all problems...
/

120

sattv4u2 Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:53:43am

re: #112 reine.de.tout

when public sector employment is not funded, and agencies have to try to do MORE with LESS, that means that there's one less person helping

Not limited to the public sector

I think you know I work in a 24/7 environment. Years ago we had 8 techs

For the last 2+ years we're doing it with 4 techs (layoffs followed by a hiring freeze)
This will be the 3rd year in a row we haven't had a pay raise. We used to get a year end bonus based on performance review and funded at 100% (meaning if you aced your review you would get 100% of you allocated bonus,,,, if your review was at the 75% scale you would get 75% of your allocated bonus)

We will get a year end bonus this year, but it's funded at 50% (meaning even if you ace your review, you get 50% of your allocated bonus,,,, bonuses are "allocated" based on your title,, a Tech 4 being the highest , a Tech 1 the lowest)

121

BishopX Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:54:40am

re: #120 sattv4u2

This is what "increased worker productivity" looks like...

122

sattv4u2 Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:56:22am

re: #121 BishopX

This is what "increased worker productivity" looks like...

Understanding that as you do, I hope you're on my review board!!!

123

barflytom Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:56:51am

re: #87 dmon

Unaffordable benefits???

Tom, the only reason Non Union employees have benefits is because unions bargained fo them, do you honestly think your employee pays for you health insurance cause he's a good guy? Or do you think he traets you halfway decent because he has the threat of you unionizing

I'm a (former) employer not an employee, so I'm taking the heartless capitalist side for this one since no-one else here seems to be. You're raising another point there as to whether it's a good idea to have health insurance tied to an employer. Most people these days aren't going to spend 20 or 30 years with the same employer, and I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that the complexity and cost of healthcare administration is due to the "third party payer" system. As to pensions, I've seen some horrendous estimates of the total shortfall in state and municipal pension funds, as in Trillions of dollars, which seems to be almost the basic unit of currency these days ! Whatever contractual agreements exist, if the money to pay a particular amount as a pension isn't there, then it ain't going to get paid.
Whether some funds have been mismanaged, or raided to cover some other expenditure is another issue. My point is that if employers have just caved in to union demands over a long period, and now just don't have the cash to honour their commitments, the unions have their share of the blame as well. They collect enough in dues to hire their own actuaries, and if they've kept pushing for something which is ultimately going to be unaffordable, well, tough.

124

sattv4u2 Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:58:12am

Errand time

125

Obdicut Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:58:16am

re: #123 barflytom

My point is that if employers have just caved in to union demands over a long period, and now just don't have the cash to honour their commitments, the unions have their share of the blame as well.

Why? If someone owes you money, why is it your fault that he can't pay?

126

brennant Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:01:25am

I wonder in the next few years we will have a problem finding educators? How many boomers are retiring?

If I were just starting college, the last thing I would consider is education.

127

dmon Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:01:37am

re: #123 barflytom

Our pension system is funded by the employees at 10%, and by the city a 10%

At current the pension is solvent for 28 years, changes are being made to tweek the fund to get back to 30 years solvency as required by state law. We as employee hav no problem with the tweak that require 2 extr years service. We arent stupid and will do what we need to keep it solvent.

The pension plan is not breaking the state, were the cities not paying into the pension fund they would be paying a similar amount to social security

128

prairiefire Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:02:14am

The Democrats have not just left the building, they have left the state![Link: www.nbc15.com...]
Go, Wisconsin! Workers rights, man.

129

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:03:26am

The concept of "wage pressures" (and the implications of unions on wage pressures) was long ago rejected by re: #126 brennant

I wonder in the next few years we will have a problem finding educators? How many boomers are retiring?

If I were just starting college, the last thing I would consider is education.

Rich white people will never have trouble finding good educators for their children. So, from the GOP's perspective, it's not an issue.

130

Fozzie Bear Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:03:50am

re: #129 Fozzie Bear

post vomit before the quote. I suck at multitasking.

131

Jadespring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:06:22am

re: #126 brennant

I wonder in the next few years we will have a problem finding educators? How many boomers are retiring?

If I were just starting college, the last thing I would consider is education.

That's a good question. I think there will always be a core who desire teaching as a call and will do it no matter what. A lot of jobs are like that. However whether that core is enough to provide the numbers I don't know. I do know young people though that have been interested in teaching and decided against because of these sorts of things as well as weighing the financial costs for the education needed vs compensation.

132

Achilles Tang Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:09:38am

re: #117 gamark

Is asking for clarification on a statement used to back up a point, changing the subject?

As I read it the broad point of the moment is that Republicans seem happy to discuss balancing the budget selectively on the backs of only some of the population, IE the public employees that they can hire or fire. If there is pain to distribute, should it not be done more equitably (which is not to say that all public jobs are sacrosanct), or is that Glenn Beck's socialism?

You think that if some people are hit harder than others they should just get a better job; as in "let them eat cake".

133

reine.de.tout Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:47:16am

re: #120 sattv4u2

when public sector employment is not funded, and agencies have to try to do MORE with LESS, that means that there's one less person helping

Not limited to the public sector

I think you know I work in a 24/7 environment. Years ago we had 8 techs

For the last 2+ years we're doing it with 4 techs (layoffs followed by a hiring freeze)
This will be the 3rd year in a row we haven't had a pay raise. We used to get a year end bonus based on performance review and funded at 100% (meaning if you aced your review you would get 100% of you allocated bonus,,, if your review was at the 75% scale you would get 75% of your allocated bonus)

We will get a year end bonus this year, but it's funded at 50% (meaning even if you ace your review, you get 50% of your allocated bonus,,, bonuses are "allocated" based on your title,, a Tech 4 being the highest , a Tech 1 the lowest)

Hubby works for the oil industry, and there are plenty of years he doesn't get an increase, regardless of his review, so I know what you're talking about. But the discussion was about those lazy-ass public employees - so that's what I addressed.

BTW - that system they have with weighting the bonuses according to review - I gotta tell you, I find those systems suck. Many times managers will inflate reviews to just be sure employees get a raise, particularly if the "raises" are 50% of what they're supposed to be.

At the top of the scale - an extra bonus would be workable and not lead to inflated ratings.
At the bottom of the scale - zero bonus.
In the middle - should all be the same.
In my most humble opinion, and one of the jobs I did for a long time was oversee and manage the performance review programs for state employees (all 66,000 of them).

134

SteveMcG Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:52:24am

I don't know if this point had been raised above (I don't really have time to go through the whole thread), but I feel like I have to put this out. I friend of mine converted to Judiasm when she got married. Turns out, there are some who don't believe she's REALLY Jewish. Something about being passed down from one of your parents. (Scratches head) I actually found myself saying that if she says she's Jewish, then as far as I'm conce3rned, she's Jewish. Her sons have had their Bar Mitzvahs, she goes to the synagogue all the time, they celebrate the Jewish holidays. Seems Jewish to me.

135

moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:52:57am

re: #61 dmon

In Ohio, if Kasich gets his way, we (firefighters) will be barred from negotiating health and safety issues.

I wonder how many of those firefighters voted for him?

136

reine.de.tout Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:54:01am

re: #133 reine.de.tout

Hubby works for the oil industry, and there are plenty of years he doesn't get an increase, regardless of his review, so I know what you're talking about. But the discussion was about those lazy-ass public employees - so that's what I addressed.

BTW - that system they have with weighting the bonuses according to review - I gotta tell you, I find those systems suck. Many times managers will inflate reviews to just be sure employees get a raise, particularly if the "raises" are 50% of what they're supposed to be.

At the top of the scale - an extra bonus would be workable and not lead to inflated ratings.
At the bottom of the scale - zero bonus.
In the middle - should all be the same.
In my most humble opinion, and one of the jobs I did for a long time was oversee and manage the performance review programs for state employees (all 66,000 of them).

AND the reason employers do that weighting sort of thing is they confuse money or pay, with motivation.

Pay isn't a motivator. It's a satisfier - if you are working for a good employer in good circumstances at reasonable pay, most people are NOT going to leave and take a job with a sucky employer in sucky circumstances no matter how much more the pay is.

What improves performance is:
1) being self-motivated to learn and improve, and
2) training

137

moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:56:10am

re: #78 schnapp

And yeah I do. I never said I agree with the bill I just pointed put that cops and fire men are exempt.

In other words they are picking on who they see as the weakest and know they can't bully the police and the firefighters.

138

Girl with a Pearl Earring Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:57:44am

Bachmann should have responded: "I thought it was the job of the media to find out these things. What have you discovered about this? With first amendment rights come responsibilities."

139

reine.de.tout Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:57:49am

re: #120 sattv4u2

when public sector employment is not funded, and agencies have to try to do MORE with LESS, that means that there's one less person helping

Not limited to the public sector

I think you know I work in a 24/7 environment. Years ago we had 8 techs

For the last 2+ years we're doing it with 4 techs (layoffs followed by a hiring freeze)
This will be the 3rd year in a row we haven't had a pay raise. We used to get a year end bonus based on performance review and funded at 100% (meaning if you aced your review you would get 100% of you allocated bonus,,, if your review was at the 75% scale you would get 75% of your allocated bonus)

We will get a year end bonus this year, but it's funded at 50% (meaning even if you ace your review, you get 50% of your allocated bonus,,, bonuses are "allocated" based on your title,, a Tech 4 being the highest , a Tech 1 the lowest)

And satt, one more point:

If you don't get your pay increase or your bonus, it's because profits are down, NOT because tax revenue isn't covering expenses.

Your company can: stop providing some services that cost more than they bring in, or be creative with pay issues, or a combination. I suspect many companies do the combination.

Governmental jurisdictions (and this would be in the purview of the legislative body), NEVER CUT services that are costing more than they should. They NEVER cut contracts (friends??). They simply reduce the number of state employees.

140

moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:59:26am

re: #104 Dreggas

nearly 100 years of progress slowly being flushed down the shitter.

I thought that was the whole point of the conservative movement.

141

Charles Johnson Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:00:51pm

re: #138 Girl with a Pearl Earring

Bachmann should have responded: "I thought it was the job of the media to find out these things. What have you discovered about this? With first amendment rights come responsibilities."

So I take it you're a Birther too?

142

Querent Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:21:04pm

re: #82 BigPapa

I think the wealthy need unions. They should be able to collectively bargain against all these Thugopolies. Derp.

Moral Derpitude!

143

Querent Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:25:50pm

re: #126 brennant
yes we will -- especially in math and science teachers!

144

BongCrodny Thu, Feb 17, 2011 2:36:12pm

re: #32 Obdicut

Oh yeah, those 'mandarins' at the DMV. Such a sweet-ass job. And those people that run homeless shelters, work with child services-- easy work with nothing to it. Bunch of spoiled brats.

If you do a Google cross-search for "Mandarin class" and "unions," the first result not describing a language class is from Andrew Breitbart's "Big Journalism" site.

I'm going to hazard a guess here and speculate that Big Journalism and Big Government are the establishments where Mr. Barfly spends his Happy Hour.

It's probably only a matter of time before you start to hear the phrase "Mandarin class" everywhere.

145

palomino Thu, Feb 17, 2011 4:02:12pm

re: #138 Girl with a Pearl Earring

Bachmann should have responded: "I thought it was the job of the media to find out these things. What have you discovered about this? With first amendment rights come responsibilities."

What the fuck are you talking about? You sound like mealy mouthed John Boehner in his MTP interview; in fact, you're parroting his response to the question.

Have you paid attention to anything the last two years? The media has "found out" these things. The media has found tons of evidence, including the certified BC in Hawaii; there is a mountain of evidence proving Obama was born in the US, there's no evidence proving he was born anywhere else. Why is this complicated for you?

146

Kid A Thu, Feb 17, 2011 4:08:23pm

re: #145 palomino

You're making way too much sense, and I have a headache because of it.
//

147

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:19:45am

re: #37 SpaceJesus

so is it basically the strategy of the GOP to prey upon the aging section of America that is old, still kind of racist, and reaching the doorstep of senility? Is that what the game plan is here?

yes

Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, all who serve the 65 to dead demographic. Old angry GOP stalwarts who will die soon and who hate fags and socialism and and brown people and brown presidents

148

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:20:23am

re: #138 Girl with a Pearl Earring

Bachmann should have responded: "I thought it was the job of the media to find out these things. What have you discovered about this? With first amendment rights come responsibilities."

Bachmann is a retard and really you're not exactly hitting 'em out of the park there, slugger

149

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:21:21am

re: #136 reine.de.tout

AND the reason employers do that weighting sort of thing is they confuse money or pay, with motivation.

Pay isn't a motivator. It's a satisfier - if you are working for a good employer in good circumstances at reasonable pay, most people are NOT going to leave and take a job with a sucky employer in sucky circumstances no matter how much more the pay is.

What improves performance is:
1) being self-motivated to learn and improve, and
2) training

I would add 3) good work environment. Being self-motivated and being well trained is nothing if you work with terrible people.

150

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:23:27am

re: #112 reine.de.tout

One more point - when public sector employment is not funded, and agencies have to try to do MORE with LESS, that means that there's one less person helping with the lines at your DMV. And that ONE missing person will be sufficient to create a long-line back-up, whereas there would be short or no lines if that one person was there.

And then that will be used as evidence that the government doesn't work,

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