Wisconsin Democrats Stage Walkout to Deny Union-Busters a Quorum

WI Republicans vs. teachers
Politics • Views: 29,160

In Wisconsin, Republican Governor Scott Walker’s bill that would strip public employees of collective bargaining rights is due for a vote today by the full legislature, and large crowds have turned out to protest.

I’m so glad to see the GOP focusing on the real problems in America: teacher’s unions.

The latest news is that Democrats in the state Senate have staged a walkout to deny Republicans a quorum, and the Republican Senate leader is threatening to have state police round up the absent Democrats.

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241 comments
1 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:51:12am

Of course that’s why Walker was so quick to make one of his cronies dad the head of the state patrol. Sad state of affairs here in Cheeseheadistan but I do hope the report is true.

2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:51:26am

It would be amusing if the police showed solidarity and told Fitzgerald to go die in a fire.

3 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:51:29am

I wonder if the State Police have a union.

4 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:51:40am

Threatening to call the state police? So classy.

5 blueraven  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:51:42am

They tried this in TX a couple of times

The Killer Bees…

In 2003, Tom DeLay, who was then majority leader of the U.S. House and a congressman from Sugar Land, decided that the Legislature should again redistrict Texas seats in the U.S. House. No matter that this had just occurred, as ordered by law, in 2001. In 2002, voters had elected sizeable Republican majorities on both sides of the rotunda, and DeLay saw an opportunity to freeze Democrats out for years to come.

The minority Democrats in the state House saw no way to defeat DeLay’s redistricting plan on the floor. So fifty-two Democratic representatives took a chapter from the Killer Bees and flew away — this time to Ardmore, Oklahoma, where the Texas Rangers had no jurisdiction. The absence of more than one-third of the House broke a quorum, and business stalled. This earned the absent Democrats the nickname “Killer D’s.” The regular session ended in stalemate, but Gov. Rick Perry called legislators back in a summer special session to redistrict. This time, the Senate Democrats took flight for Albuquerque, New Mexico. They had to come back, however, and the redistricting bill passed into law.

DeLay got what he wanted. Of the ten Democratic congressmen he had in his sights, only three were re-elected. Four were defeated, one decided not to run again, one lost the primary, and one switched parties.

texastribune.org

6 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:52:18am

Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights

Wisconsin’s new Republican governor has framed his assault on public worker’s collective bargaining rights as a needed measure of fiscal austerity during tough times.

The reality is radically different. Unlike true austerity measures — service rollbacks, furloughs, and other temporary measures that cause pain but save money — rolling back worker’s bargaining rights by itself saves almost nothing on its own. But Walker’s doing it anyhow, to knock down a barrier and allow him to cut state employee benefits immediately…

Continues.

7 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:53:50am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder if the State Police have a union.

The budget doesn’t touch police/fire benefits, just almost everyone else who’s a public employee.

I do find it ironic that Paul Ryan said the following: “It’s like Cairo moved to Madison.”

Which would imply that Scott Walker is Mubarak? ;)

8 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:54:05am

Under what law could the police legally round up these Dems?

Does something that would allow that even exist?

9 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:54:27am

Our local talking head made Walker out to be the next great GOP leader, conveniently forgetting to mention Walker threatening to use the National Guard.

10 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:55:28am

re: #7 bloodstar

The budget doesn’t touch police/fire benefits, just almost everyone else who’s a public employee.

I do find it ironic that Paul Ryan said the following: “It’s like Cairo moved to Madison.”

Which would imply that Scott Walker is Mubarak? ;)

Obviously the Police and Fire Departments have a better union.

11 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:56:14am
I’m so glad to see the GOP focusing on the real problems in America: teacher’s unions.

They’re just confronting the New World Order and the International Jewish Mind Controlling Bankers.

12 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:56:17am

I just emailed my Democratic State Senator - title - Run Senator Run!

13 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:56:59am

Scott Walker (politician)

Walker was born in Colorado Springs, Colorado, to Llew Walker, a Baptist minister, and Pat Walker, a bookkeeper. He moved with his family to Plainfield, Iowa when he was an infant, and then to Delavan, Wisconsin when he was ten years old.

While in high school, he attended two weeks of American Legion sponsored training in leadership and government; Badger Boys State held in Wisconsin, and the selective Boys Nation held in Washington, D.C. He has credited the experience with solidifying his interest in public service and giving him the “political bug”. He graduated from Delavan-Darien High School in 1986 then attended Marquette University from 1986 to 1990, quitting about 36 credit hours short of graduation, with a grade point average in the C’s.

Walker explained his reasons for leaving college: “In the end, I figured I was in school to get a good job,” he said. “So once I had one, family became more important than getting a degree.” He worked for IBM in sales from 1988 to 1990, and in marketing and development at the Red Cross from 1990 to 1994, according to his LinkedIn profile. He is the first governor of Wisconsin in 64 years to not have a college degree.

So essentially we have a C average college dropout that only worked a total of six years in his life before becoming a politician.

14 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:57:58am

Karl Rove, the architect of the “permanent GOP majority”, thinks birtherism is a Democratic plot.

tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

I’d laugh, but it’s hard to laugh when you are beating your face against your desk.

15 wee fury  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:58:46am

This is a stupid ploy.

16 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:58:56am

re: #13 Gus 802

Scott Walker (politician)

So essentially we have a C average college dropout that only worked a total of six years in his life before becoming a politician.

Who trashed Milwaukee county before running as the great white GOP hope. Feh!

17 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:00:52am

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

Karl Rove, the architect of the “permanent GOP majority”, thinks birtherism is a Democratic plot.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

I’d laugh, but it’s hard to laugh when you are beating your face against your desk.

“Look, the President could come out and say ‘Here are the documents,’ but they are happy to have this controversy continue.”“

Two things.

1) He has provided the documents and they’ve been ignored.

2) When your opponent is making himself look like a fucking idiot, let him.

18 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:01:30am

re: #16 wlewisiii

Who trashed Milwaukee county before running as the great white GOP hope. Feh!

Like this?

Walker won the office on a platform of fiscal conservatism, promising, among other things, to give back part of his own salary, and criticizing the salaries of other county workers as excessive. He said his voluntary give-back gave him the moral authority to make cuts in the county budget. He continued returning $60,000 annually, (slightly less than half of his salary), for several years, but by 2008, he cut his give-back to $10,000 per year. During his seven years in office, he never submitted a budget with a higher property tax levy than the county board had approved, he cut the number of county employees by 20 percent, and reduced the county’s debt by ten percent. However, according to The Associated Press, “overall county spending … increased 35 percent over his tenure”.

Another Republican fiscal magic trick. Both Bush 2 and Reagan did similar things on a national level.

19 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:01:55am

I wonder if the GOP has ever taken a look at the demographic trends in the US. They have a HUGE demographic bump of old white people as boomers become elderly and retire, but after the boomers die…. it’s urban brown people as far as the eye can see. The exact people the GOP has been working overtime to shit all over.

When this rubber band snaps, and it will, it’s going to be very ugly indeed for the GOP.

20 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:03:08am

They left, dude. Gonesky:nbc15.com

21 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:04:03am

Yes, Karl. It’s the White House’s fault that there are so many birthers and when Republican candidates i.e. McCain/Castle call them out, they’re rewarded with boos. Maybe they’re shouting Boo-erns. That’s the ticket.

22 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:05:12am

re: #21 HappyWarrior

Yes, Karl. It’s the White House’s fault that there are so many birthers and when Republican candidates i.e. McCain/Castle call them out, they’re rewarded with boos. Maybe they’re shouting Boo-erns. That’s the ticket.

Don’t dis the architect. He knows all. He will lead old white people to a majority that will last as long as… well… as long as the old white people do.

23 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:05:12am

re: #20 prairiefire

They left, dude. Gonesky:[Link: www.nbc15.com…]

Wisconsin Democrats standing with the people!
This is getting good.

24 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:05:39am

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

Karl Rove, the architect of the “permanent GOP majority”, thinks birtherism is a Democratic plot.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

I’d laugh, but it’s hard to laugh when you are beating your face against your desk.

Pathetic.

25 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:08:04am

The GOP doubles down!

Paul Ryan On Wisconsin Protests: ‘It’s Like Cairo Has Moved To Madison’ (VIDEO)

Speaking on Morning Joe Thursday morning, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) compared the current situation in Wisconsin, where Gov. Scott Walker (R) has inspired days of protests by proposing a budget that would remove key bargaining powers for public employee unions, to the recent unrest in Egypt that toppled the 30-year authoritarian rule of Hosni Mubarak, saying it’s “like Cairo has moved to Madison these days.”…

26 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:08:07am

The Dem Senators have left Wisconsin to avoid the State Police.

I guess Walker will have to deploy the NG to go out and grab them.
/

27 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:08:47am

The Muslim Brotherhood and Caliphate has moved to Wisconsin!!11ty

28 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:09:26am

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

Karl Rove, the architect of the “permanent GOP majority”, thinks birtherism is a Democratic plot.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

I’d laugh, but it’s hard to laugh when you are beating your face against your desk.

I find that one especially humorous because Rove was at the center of every absurd and stupid lefty conspiracy theory for 8 years.The mere mention of his name would make lefties freak out and discredit themselves. The worm has turned.

29 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:10:23am

re: #21 HappyWarrior

Yes, Karl. It’s the White House’s fault that there are so many birthers and when Republican candidates i.e. McCain/Castle call them out, they’re rewarded with boos. Maybe they’re shouting Boo-erns. That’s the ticket.

Obama is on one hand completely useless and on the other able to exert incredible overarching power over people’s minds.

Obama, “Get out the mind control guns. I SHALL MAKE THEM BOO. Muhahaha”

30 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:10:31am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

I find that one especially humorous because Rove was at the center of every absurd and stupid lefty conspiracy theory for 8 years.The mere mention of his name would make lefties freak out and discredit themselves. The worm has turned.

If you say his name 3 times in front of a camera, he would appear.

31 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:10:33am

Here’s an idea on how we can save money.

Get out of Afghanistan. Now.

I realize that won’t be popular with some folks.

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:10:50am

re: #27 Gus 802

The Muslim Brotherhood and Caliphate has moved to Wisconsin!!11ty

Well, thank God. Now we know where they are, and they can’t take over Egypt. Bonus.

34 Kragar  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:11:44am

re: #33 Killgore Trout


Beck Sees “The Beginning Of The American Insurrection” In Wisconsin Protests

Beck saw the same thing spelled out in his alpha bits during breakfast.

35 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:11:51am

re: #33 Killgore Trout


Beck Sees “The Beginning Of The American Insurrection” In Wisconsin Protests

Oops. I haven’t been keeping up. I figured it would be the logical conclusion.

36 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:12:18am

re: #8 Jadespring

Under what law could the police legally round up these Dems?

Does something that would allow that even exist?

Actually there is a law. If the governor puts out a “call of the house” IIRC, then the State Patrol can haul them in by any means necessary. That’s why they had to get out of state. Run Senators! Run! LOL

37 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:12:22am

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, thank God. Now we know where they are, and they can’t take over Egypt. Bonus.

So where is Code Pink, Alinsky, Google and Facebook in all this.

I mean they have to be somewhere right? Right?

38 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:12:51am

re: #31 Gus 802

Here’s an idea on how we can save money.

Get out of Afghanistan. Now.

I realize that won’t be popular with some folks.

We spend more per month in Afghanistan than we do per year in foreign aid outside Afghanistan. So, clearly, the smart thing to do is eliminate foreign aid. /

39 Batman  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:13:32am

re: #33 Killgore Trout


Beck Sees “The Beginning Of The American Insurrection” In Wisconsin Protests

Sweet, dueling insurrections. Grab the popcorn.

40 BishopX  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:13:49am

re: #18 Gus 802

Like this?

Another Republican fiscal magic trick. Both Bush 2 and Reagan did similar things on a national level.

If the property tax levy is percentage based it’s entirely possible that the increased revenue offset all the cuts he was making. Also shifting from employees to contractors allows you to move the money around a bit.

41 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:13:59am

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

We spend more per month in Afghanistan than we do per year in foreign aid outside Afghanistan. So, clearly, the smart thing to do is eliminate foreign aid. /

That and cut funding for presidential teleprompters and PBS/NPR.

//

42 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:14:44am

re: #33 Killgore Trout


Beck Sees “The Beginning Of The American Insurrection” In Wisconsin Protests

And if they had been protesting Obama, ole Glenn would be praising them as true Americans and the heirs of the revolution. I’m sincerely shocked he didn’t try to say they were part of the next CAliphate.

43 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:15:17am

re: #36 wlewisiii

Actually there is a law. If the governor puts out a “call of the house” IIRC, then the State Patrol can haul them in by any means necessary. That’s why they had to get out of state. Run Senators! Run! LOL

Cool. Thanks for the info.


I’m bad I know but I can’t help but being amused. I have a picture of a bunch of old stogy looking Senators in vans making a run for the state line.

44 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:16:24am

re: #39 nonsense

God I hope so

45 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:16:41am

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously the Police and Fire Departments have a better union.

As a matter of fact, they do. There is a move in Washington to give police and fire unions the right to force arbitration at the federal level. It has garnered support on both sides of the aisle.

As to the issue as a whole, public unions are most certainly a pocketbook issue. I think it is a relevant issue. I’m not saying I’m in favor of abolishing public unions, but I think public union CBA’s is a more relevant issue than abortion rights, Obama’s birth certificate and whether to cut Thomas Jefferson out of history books.

46 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:16:57am

re: #33 Killgore Trout


Beck Sees “The Beginning Of The American Insurrection” In Wisconsin Protests

Yeah, like us armed Democrats are going to throw out the Republicans and declaire the Republic of Cheeseistan???

47 mr.fusion  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:17:12am

With what’s going on in the Governor’s Mansion in Florida I think it’s only a matter of time before we see the same thing happening in Tallahassee

48 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:17:34am

re: #42 HappyWarrior

And if they had been protesting Obama, ole Glenn would be praising them as true Americans and the heirs of the revolution. I’m sincerely shocked he didn’t try to say they were part of the next CAliphate.

Francis Fox Piven!!11ty

I don’t know how much of this I can stomach today.

49 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:18:17am

re: #43 Jadespring

Heh, that is a funny mental image. Like something out of Cheech & Chong LOL

50 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:18:40am

re: #33 Killgore Trout


Beck Sees “The Beginning Of The American Insurrection” In Wisconsin Protests

I was planning a trip to Wisconsin this summer to meet some long lost relatives.

Now with this insurrection going on I’m wondering if it will be safe.

//

51 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:19:19am

re: #49 wlewisiii

Heh, that is a funny mental image. Like something out of Cheech & Chong LOL

Or a political Blue Brothers type movie.

52 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:19:34am

Personally, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Wisconsin is going after teachers. There is an assault on education from the right ranging from the Texas school board’s rewriting of history to demonizing the entire educational system. Higher education does not escape the right’s attention either. I heard someone from the Hoover Institute a couple weeks ago say that public supported higher education is not important because the education only benefits the person educated and not society at large. This was incidental to the topic being discussed, so no one challenged him on it.

Really? An uneducated populace is entirely neutral to a nation’s well being?

53 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:19:37am

re: #46 wlewisiii

Yeah, like us armed Democrats are going to throw out the Republicans and declaire the Republic of Cheeseistan???

Yeah but Teabaggers and Beckastinians are “real Murcians”!!

“Water the tree of liberty” “Next time we come armed” Showing up with rifles and guns… The AR-15 presidential stunt…

54 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:19:53am

re: #47 mr.fusion

With what’s going on in the Governor’s Mansion in Florida I think it’s only a matter of time before we see the same thing happening in Tallahassee

What’s going on?

55 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #50 Jadespring

I was planning a trip to Wisconsin this summer to meet some long lost relatives.

Now with this insurrection going on I’m wondering if it will be safe.

//

As well you might. Arizona has also convinced me that it is unsafe to visit. My tourist dollars will go elsewhere…

56 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:21:20am

re: #48 Gus 802

Francis Fox Piven!!11ty

I don’t know how much of this I can stomach today.

Tell me about it. Lecture I have to run off to in forty minutes looks awfully good right now and it’s for a gen ed, gen ed that I hate :).

57 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:22:27am

re: #52 calochortus

Battling teachers’ unions does not necessarily mean attacking education in general. I don’t know anything about the Wisconsin situation, but my kid goes to a private school with no unions, and I am quite sure her education much better than it would be in the public schools in my city.

58 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:22:29am

re: #47 mr.fusion

With what’s going on in the Governor’s Mansion in Florida I think it’s only a matter of time before we see the same thing happening in Tallahassee

I think we’re going to see these experiments in a lot of red states. These new extremist Republicans are going to use their own states as guinea pigs for radical experiments in “making government smaller”. I don’t think it’s going to end up well for anybody.

59 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:22:39am

re: #53 Gus 802

Yeah but Teabaggers and Beckastinians are “real Murcians”!!

“Water the tree of liberty” “Next time we come armed” Showing up with rifles and guns… The AR-15 presidential stunt…

I’d be tempted to do that up at the square but it would scare the other protesters even more than Scooter if I had the old deer rifle (unloaded) slung over my shoulder and my revolver on my hip. No different than the Teabaggers but these are not that kind of people, for good & bad.

60 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:23:31am

re: #42 HappyWarrior

And if they had been protesting Obama, ole Glenn would be praising them as true Americans and the heirs of the revolution. I’m sincerely shocked he didn’t try to say they were part of the next CAliphate.

Oh come on. You know it’s different when real Americans protest. These are just commies who want socialism.

//

61 justaminute  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:23:40am

Who knew that the cause of all of the United States problems were teachers and their unions? The Republicans have been advocating to draft Christie of New Jersey to run for president and all he has accomplished is to scream and threaten teachers in meetings. Have you noticed any large up tick in jobs for New Jersey? Has the economy drastically improved in New Jersey? This smoke and mirrors has worked for Christie and Walker just wants to catch the wave.

62 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:23:56am

It’s kind of hard to take the governor’s threat of using the National Guard seriously but if he does can the Feds interfere? I would assume so.

63 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:24:05am

re: #57 harrylook

Battling teachers’ unions does not necessarily mean attacking education in general. I don’t know anything about the Wisconsin situation, but my kid goes to a private school with no unions, and I am quite sure her education much better than it would be in the public schools in my city.

Please try to make the argument that unions are worthless on the basis of your experiences with private schooling.

64 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:24:06am

re: #60 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh come on. You know it’s different when real Americans protest. These are just commies who want socialism.

//

Yep, they want Mao’s Muslim Caliphate. And Glenn if you’re reading this, please don’t get any ideas.

65 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:24:28am

re: #60 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh come on. You know it’s different when real Americans protest. These are just commies who want socialism.

//

Note to Wisonsin protesters…

Wear tricorne hats and bring yer gunz!!11ty

66 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:25:13am

Well well well, I’m pleasantly surprised. The Archbishop of Milwaukee has come out on the side of the unions.

host.madison.com

67 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:25:41am

re: #65 Gus 802

I don’t understand why they’re not wearing incredibly stupid outfits and looking immensely pleased with themselves.

/

68 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:26:10am

re: #63 iossarian

I never said they were “worthless.” Please don’t put words in my mouth. However, when I sit down to negotiate with unions, I promise you, the last thing on their minds is ‘the children.’ And the second to last thing on their minds is the young, idealistic teachers. It’s just about money and benefits.

69 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:26:27am

Has anyone seen Scott Walker’s birth certificate?

/

70 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:26:28am

re: #57 harrylook

Battling teachers’ unions does not necessarily mean attacking education in general. I don’t know anything about the Wisconsin situation, but my kid goes to a private school with no unions, and I am quite sure her education much better than it would be in the public schools in my city.

I agree that it doesn’t necessarily correlate with attacking education, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be part of a broader attack either. Teachers in private schools often have incentives other than just remuneration (more parent involvement, fewer ‘difficult’ students, sharing the mission of a specific school, whatever.)

71 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:26:48am

re: #66 wlewisiii

Well well well, I’m pleasantly surprised. The Archbishop of Milwaukee has come out on the side of the unions.

[Link: host.madison.com…]

Yeah. I wish the other unionized workers would come out too, even if they aren’t being targeted.

72 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:27:35am

re: #66 wlewisiii

Well well well, I’m pleasantly surprised. The Archbishop of Milwaukee has come out on the side of the unions.

[Link: host.madison.com…]

Not surprised. Bishop gets props for me for bringing up John Paul II and Solidarity.

73 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:28:09am

re: #70 calochortus

I agree that it doesn’t necessarily correlate with attacking education, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be part of a broader attack either. Teachers in private schools often have incentives other than just remuneration (more parent involvement, fewer ‘difficult’ students, sharing the mission of a specific school, whatever.)

Agreed. But I do think unions need to change and give a little. There are places where teachers pay virtually nothing toward their health insurance, eg. They can give a little on that, and when they refuse, people get justifiably angry. So, it’s a legitimate pocketbook issue to talk about unions.

74 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:28:12am

And the band played on.

Record profits.

Record cash at hand.

75 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:28:25am

re: #68 harrylook

You can’t promise that.

This is one of my heroes.

articles.sfgate.com

He fought for teacher’s rights to free expression.

Not just for pay.

76 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:28:30am

re: #68 harrylook

I never said they were “worthless.” Please don’t put words in my mouth. However, when I sit down to negotiate with unions, I promise you, the last thing on their minds is ‘the children.’ And the second to last thing on their minds is the young, idealistic teachers. It’s just about money and benefits.

I am shocked to discover that teachers’ unions exist to promote the employment rights of teachers.

Shocked, I tell you.

77 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:29:21am
78 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:29:26am

re: #68 harrylook

I never said they were “worthless.” Please don’t put words in my mouth. However, when I sit down to negotiate with unions, I promise you, the last thing on their minds is ‘the children.’ And the second to last thing on their minds is the young, idealistic teachers. It’s just about money and benefits.

Well that’s a surprise that negotiations dealing with money and benefits would be about money and benefits.

I’m shocked.

I’m guessing that teachers at private schools must never bring up their money and benefits with their employers either cause that wouldn’t be ‘thinking of the children.” Right?

79 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:29:30am

re: #72 HappyWarrior

Not surprised. Bishop gets props for me for bringing up John Paul II and Solidarity.

Reason I’m surprised is he had to pull rank on the reactionary bishop we have here in Madison these days. I’m glad, and the Solidarity references are great. But he just gave up his chance at a red hat because the big boss will be furious with him for this.

80 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:29:47am

re: #73 harrylook

I’ll agree with you that everyone needs to give a little. The fact that unions aren’t perfect is not, in my mind a good reason to take away collective bargaining rights from teachers.

81 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:31:03am

re: #80 calochortus

I’ll agree with you that everyone needs to give a little. The fact that unions aren’t perfect is not, in my mind a good reason to take away collective bargaining rights from teachers.

I can agree with that too. Problems don’t need to mean throwing everything out.

82 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:31:44am

re: #79 wlewisiii

Reason I’m surprised is he had to pull rank on the reactionary bishop we have here in Madison these days. I’m glad, and the Solidarity references are great. But he just gave up his chance at a red hat because the big boss will be furious with him for this.

Ah, stinks you have a reactionary one in Madison. For the longest time, we had a pretty progressive minded one in Bishop McCarrick here in DC. I recall seeing him speak at a Save Darfur Rally.

83 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:32:49am

Here’s the current situation. A call of the house has been issued and the Democratic Senators are on the run.

host.madison.com

84 Thunderhart  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:33:10am

It is worth noting that even Democratic Governors Andrew Cuomo of New York and Jerry Brown of California are trying to rein in public sector unions’ pensions and bargaining rights, as these are greatly contributing to the deficits of those states!

Being able to retire on an infinite taxpayer-supported pension at age 55 is fiscal insanity, given the fact of ever-rising longevity, and every political leader regardless of state or party is having to address this fact.

85 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:33:49am

re: #76 iossarian

Uh, yeah. That’s what they are there for. But you should also keep in mind that when the choice is more money/benefits for the older teachers vs. dumping the younger one’s, guess whose ‘rights’ take precedence. They aren’t automatically morally superior to the taxpayers or the politicians.

86 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:34:25am

re: #84 Thunderhart

It is worth noting that even Democratic Governors Andrew Cuomo of New York and Jerry Brown of California are trying to rein in public sector unions’ pensions and bargaining rights, as these are greatly contributing to the deficits of those states!

Being able to retire on an infinite taxpayer-supported pension at age 55 is fiscal insanity, given the fact of ever-rising longevity, and every political leader regardless of state or party is having to address this fact.

yeah but they aren’t trying to solve the problem by axing everything entirely.

87 Flounder  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:35:16am

re: #62 Killgore Trout
What is the Governor going to do with the National Guard?

88 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:35:24am

oh and as a californian the one thing I see being the biggest thorn in the side of this state is Prop 13.

89 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:35:49am

re: #84 Thunderhart

Can you explain what Brown and Cuomo are doing to rein in unions bargaining rights?

90 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:35:57am

Uh. This is more than just negotiating with unions.

91 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:36:10am

ugh. i can’t take sarcasm.re: #78 Jadespring

I’m guessing that teachers at private schools must never bring up their money and benefits with their employers either cause that wouldn’t be ‘thinking of the children.” Right?

I presume they do. Are you saying there is no need for teachers unions?

92 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:36:29am

re: #73 harrylook

Harry,
Our union here in Ohio has agreed to a three year wage freeze, and loss of 5 paid holidays……. what do you consider giving up a little?…….. maybe agree to a 50% pay cut and an 80 hour work week?

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:36:34am

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

Karl Rove, the architect of the “permanent GOP majority”, thinks birtherism is a Democratic plot.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

I’d laugh, but it’s hard to laugh when you are beating your face against your desk.

Does he really think that? Or is he just doing a schtick, like the whole GOP seems to be doing? He’s not a stupid man, I have trouble believing he could think something so laughable

94 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:37:06am

re: #86 Dreggas

The generous retirement benefits aren’t entirely the fault of the unions. Back when inflation was running high, a lot of government entities were happy to trade salaries in the present that didn’t keep up with inflation for promises of a high retirement income later. Those promises have come due.

95 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:37:09am

re: #91 harrylook

ugh. i can’t take sarcasm.

I presume they do. Are you saying there is no need for teachers unions?

Nope.

96 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:37:56am

I notice the dormant anti-union contingent of the LGF commenters has magically come to life

97 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:38:08am

Here. Read this five times and maybe it will sink in…

Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a plan that would strip public employees of most collective bargaining rights

Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a plan that would strip public employees of most collective bargaining rights

Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a plan that would strip public employees of most collective bargaining rights

Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a plan that would strip public employees of most collective bargaining rights

Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a plan that would strip public employees of most collective bargaining rights

98 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:38:19am

Obstructionist.

99 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:38:36am

re: #84 Thunderhart

So you are suggesting that having an engine crew showing up at your house with 70 year olds is in th public interest?

100 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:38:43am

re: #94 calochortus

The generous retirement benefits aren’t entirely the fault of the unions. Back when inflation was running high, a lot of government entities were happy to trade salaries in the present that didn’t keep up with inflation for promises of a high retirement income later. Those promises have come due.

this

101 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:39:50am

Well, the teacher in this house (we’re homeschoolers, for those who don’t know) is using her collective bargaining power (it’s terrific when your one vote outweighs the combined votes of the rest of the house) that she needs more cookies.

I will say that here in Oregon, we have a serious public employee’s pension problem that threatens to sink the budget.

102 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:39:53am

re: #92 dmon

That’s giving up quite a bit. I was just responding in general to the idea that public unions isn’t a worthy topic of conversation in politics. I think it certainly is. Apparently I forgot why I never comment when I disagree slightly with the general opinion here.

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:40:08am

re: #97 Gus 802


It depends on how much paint thinner they’re huffing

104 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:40:17am

Maybe we need more Octagenarian cops on the streets

105 Flounder  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:40:27am

re: #96 WindUpBird
You can’t always shine shit.

/

106 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:40:53am

re: #94 calochortus

The generous retirement benefits aren’t entirely the fault of the unions. Back when inflation was running high, a lot of government entities were happy to trade salaries in the present that didn’t keep up with inflation for promises of a high retirement income later. Those promises have come due.

Oh I know that all too well.

107 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:41:07am

re: #1 wlewisiii

Of course that’s why Walker was so quick to make one of his cronies dad the head of the state patrol. Sad state of affairs here in Cheeseheadistan but I do hope the report is true.

That’s not helping him here:

Madison Police spokesman Joel DeSpain told madison.com on Thursday morning that police protocol will likely stay the same as it’s been the past two days downtown.

“We need to make sure the protesters will be able to move safely,” DeSpain said. Madison Police Chief Noble Wray said “Our job is to create an environment for democracy to take place.” Through two days of protests, the throngs have been peaceful. “We want to thank the protesters for their decorum and would urge everyone to continue to remain peaceful,” DeSpain said.

Capitol Police are allowing protest signs inside the Capitol, but the signs can’t have sticks attached.


These are the same people the freeking National Review is calling thugs.

108 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:41:30am

re: #102 harrylook

Harry, this isnt a matter of general opinion….. I am one the individuals directly affected……..

109 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:42:15am

re: #107 leftynyc

That’s not helping him here:

Madison Police spokesman Joel DeSpain told madison.com on Thursday morning that police protocol will likely stay the same as it’s been the past two days downtown.

“We need to make sure the protesters will be able to move safely,” DeSpain said. Madison Police Chief Noble Wray said “Our job is to create an environment for democracy to take place.” Through two days of protests, the throngs have been peaceful. “We want to thank the protesters for their decorum and would urge everyone to continue to remain peaceful,” DeSpain said.

Capitol Police are allowing protest signs inside the Capitol, but the signs can’t have sticks attached.

These are the same people the freeking National Review is calling thugs.

pfft what do the police know? THey work for the government. (wingnut logic)

110 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:42:25am

re: #97 Gus 802

Here. Read this five times and maybe it will sink in…

Also lots of talk about how this is going after teachers unions. It’s not just teachers.

It’s as this article posted up thread quotes “Assembly Democratic Minority Leader Peter Barca said in a statement. “We support our teachers, nurses, snow-plow drivers, 911 operators, EMTs and all the working people that keep our great state functioning in both the public and private sectors.”

Pretty much the whole kit and kaboodle. So I can completely understand the hubbub.

host.madison.com

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:42:25am

re: #107 leftynyc

That’s not helping him here:

Madison Police spokesman Joel DeSpain told madison.com on Thursday morning that police protocol will likely stay the same as it’s been the past two days downtown.

“We need to make sure the protesters will be able to move safely,” DeSpain said. Madison Police Chief Noble Wray said “Our job is to create an environment for democracy to take place.” Through two days of protests, the throngs have been peaceful. “We want to thank the protesters for their decorum and would urge everyone to continue to remain peaceful,” DeSpain said.

Capitol Police are allowing protest signs inside the Capitol, but the signs can’t have sticks attached.

These are the same people the freeking National Review is calling thugs.

Well, the protesters are young, and I imagine the National Review clutches its pearls and scurries to the other side of the street when some scary young people draw near

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:42:43am

re: #102 harrylook

That’s giving up quite a bit. I was just responding in general to the idea that public unions isn’t a worthy topic of conversation in politics. I think it certainly is. Apparently I forgot why I never comment when I disagree slightly with the general opinion here.

9_9

113 Flounder  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:42:47am

re: #107 leftynyc

I heard the protesters are trashing the place with garbage.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:43:49am

re: #113 Shropshire_Slasher

I heard the protesters are trashing the place with garbage.

They very thuggishy left a powerbar wrapper behind

with malice and forethought, they committed this brutal crime

115 SteveMcGazi  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:43:50am

Once they strip the scapegoats, who will they blame when they still can’t balance their budgets? Somebody had raised a good point about the NJ situation, where the governor wants to eliminate tenure: Teachers would be vulnerable to the whims of local school board politicianswho may want their teachers to teach creationism. Teachers may wind up being patronage jobs. I’m not a union guy, but I at least know that there is a role out there for collective bargaining.

116 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:43:57am

re: #46 wlewisiii

Yeah, like us armed Democrats are going to throw out the Republicans and declaire the Republic of Cheeseistan???

Aaron Rodgers for Caliph!

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:44:02am

re: #41 Gus 802

That and cut funding for presidential teleprompters and PBS/NPR.

//

The teleprompter thing is the one I can’t get over. Way to make sure no one sane thinks you’re actually trying to get the budget under control, eejit!

118 BishopX  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:44:16am

re: #113 Shropshire_Slasher

They’re Americans. What are they supposed to do, think of others?
//

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:45:05am

re: #43 Jadespring

Cool. Thanks for the info.

I’m bad I know but I can’t help but being amused. I have a picture of a bunch of old stogy looking Senators in vans making a run for the state line.

It’s pretty hilarious. Would make a good movie, although I think I’d set it someplace in the West, for the scenery.

120 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:45:10am

re: #85 harrylook

Uh, yeah. That’s what they are there for. But you should also keep in mind that when the choice is more money/benefits for the older teachers vs. dumping the younger one’s, guess whose ‘rights’ take precedence. They aren’t automatically morally superior to the taxpayers or the politicians.

Those greedy older teachers, always stealing all the money away from the younger, “idealistic” ones.

If only all teachers could be fired at will after the age of 45! That would shake up the profession!

121 Flounder  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:45:29am

re: #118 BishopX

Must be union garbage technicians too

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:45:51am

re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist

The teleprompter thing is the one I can’t get over. Way to make sure no one sane thinks you’re actually trying to get the budget under control, eejit!

I MOTION THAT THIS AMENDMENT BE INSERTED INTO THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, TO HERETOFORE CUT FUNDING FOR MICHELLE OBAMA’S GARDEN WAK WAK I’M A DUMBASS

123 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:46:38am

re: #122 WindUpBird

I MOTION THAT THIS AMENDMENT BE INSERTED INTO THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL, TO HERETOFORE CUT FUNDING FOR MICHELLE OBAMA’S GARDEN WAK WAK I’M A DUMBASS

Laugh of the day! Thanks for bringing the sunshine in.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:48:01am

re: #52 calochortus

Personally, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Wisconsin is going after teachers. There is an assault on education from the right ranging from the Texas school board’s rewriting of history to demonizing the entire educational system. Higher education does not escape the right’s attention either. I heard someone from the Hoover Institute a couple weeks ago say that public supported higher education is not important because the education only benefits the person educated and not society at large. This was incidental to the topic being discussed, so no one challenged him on it.

Really? An uneducated populace is entirely neutral to a nation’s well being?

Think about the wingnut’s fear of ‘social engineering’. Oddly, for people who preach self-reliance, they’re suspicious of foresight, planning, or thinking about how things will turn out, preferring to just rely on abstract principle and figuring it will all be fine.

Reminds me of kids who say they don’t use birth control because ‘planning’ to have sex means you’re slutty, or not really in love. In their minds, it’s better to just be overwhelmed by the moment, even though this devotion to pure romance may lead to pregnancy or STDs.

125 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:48:15am

re: #120 iossarian

Those greedy older teachers, always stealing all the money away from the younger, “idealistic” ones.

If only all teachers could be fired at will after the age of 45! That would shake up the profession!

Seriously, people seem to think that there are all these evil 62-year-old teachers who just hide in the corner of the room all day and don’t actually do any teaching, before driving home in their gold-plated foreign hybrid cars.

It kind of makes you wonder how many actual teachers they’ve spent time with.

126 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:48:18am

re: #120 iossarian

Those greedy older teachers, always stealing all the money away from the younger, “idealistic” ones.

If only all teachers could be fired at will after the age of 45! That would shake up the profession!

After 20 years of teaching, these monocled, tuxedo-wearing chauffered-Benz teachers are making the staggering sum annually of


SIXTY

THOUSAND

DOLLARS

the riches are beyond magnitude, like a Scrooge McDuck room full of gold that you can swan dive into from your diving board which is improbably also made of gold

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:48:19am

re: #53 Gus 802

Yeah but Teabaggers and Beckastinians are “real Murcians”!!

“Water the tree of liberty” “Next time we come armed” Showing up with rifles and guns… The AR-15 presidential stunt…

AR-15 man was black, so he doesn’t count.

//

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:48:40am

re: #123 iossarian

Laugh of the day! Thanks for bringing the sunshine in.

I have to laugh or else I’ll drink :D

129 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:48:51am

re: #120 iossarian

Those greedy older teachers, always stealing all the money away from the younger, “idealistic” ones.

If only all teachers could be fired at will after the age of 45! That would shake up the profession!

Yes, I don’t know why old people think they should have some sort of senority and protection. The nerve really.

I mean it’s not like a company or group would ever chop their senior staff in order to bring on younger staff at cheaper rates.

Oh wait…

130 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:49:28am

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Its all about going with your feelings because your pure and innocent soul will give you the right answer every time.//

131 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:49:48am

re: #126 WindUpBird

After 20 years of teaching, these monocled, tuxedo-wearing chauffered-Benz teachers are making the staggering sum annually of

SIXTY

THOUSAND

DOLLARS

the riches are beyond magnitude, like a Scrooge McDuck room full of gold that you can swan dive into from your diving board which is improbably also made of gold

Image: scrooge-mcduck.jpg

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:49:56am

re: #57 harrylook

Battling teachers’ unions does not necessarily mean attacking education in general. I don’t know anything about the Wisconsin situation, but my kid goes to a private school with no unions, and I am quite sure her education much better than it would be in the public schools in my city.

1. You could be right or wrong about that.
2. Depending on the school, the teachers may be well treated or not. Public school teachers without unions would be treated like crap.
3. How much does the school cost? (You don’t need to answer this, but it’s probably well out of the reach of most parents in your city, especially if you’re right about 1.

133 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:49:59am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

I find that one especially humorous because Rove was at the center of every absurd and stupid lefty conspiracy theory for 8 years.The mere mention of his name would make lefties freak out and discredit themselves. The worm has turned.

The problem is that Rove was indeed at the heart of some really vile shit against the Dems and GOP opponents. The Siegalman prosecution came from Rove. The disgusting racist smear against McCain in South Carolina came from Rove. Rove is an utterly Machiavellian bastard who was willing to sell out his own supposedly beloved step father ( he came out as a gay man) in order to get a wedge issue.

134 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:50:04am

…. Sunday evening my crew showed up at a car wreck, 10 month old ejected, not breathing….we scooped the kid up, intubated enroute, intraosseous IV with fluids, kept him alive until we got to the hospital…there were 30 or bystanders and not a sinle one worried about whether we were unionized, what we got paid, what kind of benefits we had…….

I havent had good nights sleep in three days, walked away feeling good about my work……


btw young dezmond is still in critical condition.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:50:44am

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Think about the wingnut’s fear of ‘social engineering’. Oddly, for people who preach self-reliance, they’re suspicious of foresight, planning, or thinking about how things will turn out, preferring to just rely on abstract principle and figuring it will all be fine.

Is an abstract principle one where you are moralizing the virtues of random happenstance?


“Don’t plan for anything! Chaos reigns! Your next day could be your last!”

136 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:51:15am

re: #111 WindUpBird

Well, the protesters are young, and I imagine the National Review clutches its pearls and scurries to the other side of the street when some scary young people draw near

Good protesters carry assault rifles and signs of Obama in tribal face paint. Didn’t you know that?
/

137 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:51:23am

re: #134 dmon

… Sunday evening my crew showed up at a car wreck, 10 month old ejected, not breathing…we scooped the kid up, intubated enroute, intraosseous IV with fluids, kept him alive until we got to the hospital…there were 30 or bystanders and not a sinle one worried about whether we were unionized, what we got paid, what kind of benefits we had…

I havent had good nights sleep in three days, walked away feeling good about my work…


btw young dezmond is still in critical condition.

You’re my hero.

There should be a “risked my life for 30 years” bonus for the pensions.

It should mean something.

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:52:08am

re: #25 Gus 802

The GOP doubles down!

Paul Ryan On Wisconsin Protests: ‘It’s Like Cairo Has Moved To Madison’ (VIDEO)

I don’t know if Wisconsin is ready for democracy…

[Video]

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:52:35am

re: #68 harrylook

I never said they were “worthless.” Please don’t put words in my mouth. However, when I sit down to negotiate with unions, I promise you, the last thing on their minds is ‘the children.’ And the second to last thing on their minds is the young, idealistic teachers. It’s just about money and benefits.

Having been a young idealistic teacher, I say, thank God for that. There’s enough urging you to sacrifice your time, your health, and your financial well being for the children, from your own conscience to the administrators, to the other teachers, to society’s expectations. Someone has to be looking at the bottom line of whether you’ll be able to retire to a reasonable standard of living, and whether you’ll be able to teach without being constantly harassed, and that’s the union.

The idea that it is rather distasteful for teachers to look out for themselves goes back to when it was a job a young girl did for a couple of years until she got married. Now it gets applied to middle-aged people with children and mortgages, and it’s stupid.

140 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:52:54am

I’d love to see the packers team show up in uniform

141 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:53:01am

re: #5 blueraven

They tried this in TX a couple of times

The Killer Bees…

[Link: www.texastribune.org…]

Keep in mind that the elections that allowed this Texas Legislature stacking - enabling an ELEVEN SEAT congressional swing to take place is what got Tom DeLay convicted for conspiracy and money laundering - he was funneling money to these districts.

142 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:53:09am

re: #126 WindUpBird

After 20 years of teaching, these monocled, tuxedo-wearing chauffered-Benz teachers are making the staggering sum annually of

SIXTY

THOUSAND

DOLLARS

the riches are beyond magnitude, like a Scrooge McDuck room full of gold that you can swan dive into from your diving board which is improbably also made of gold

Speaking of Scrooge McDuck, did you know that the movie Inception is plagiarized from an old Donald Duck comic?

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:53:27am

re: #73 harrylook

Agreed. But I do think unions need to change and give a little. There are places where teachers pay virtually nothing toward their health insurance, eg. They can give a little on that, and when they refuse, people get justifiably angry. So, it’s a legitimate pocketbook issue to talk about unions.

No, it’s a legitimate pocketbook issue to talk about what the unions are asking for, and whether it’s reasonable, or possible.

Acting as though things would be OK if the unions just went away is not reasonable.

144 Kronocide  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:54:18am

God forbid if a union regulation snafu caused a house to burn while a bunch of union lackey firemen stood by arguing and scratching their heads.

That would suck, no?

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:54:38am

re: #138 ralphieboy

Paul Ryan, in a stunning adjustment, shrieked “TERRORISTS!” and wetted himself, running crying off to the bathroom


“THEY’RE HERE” came the wailing howls from stall C

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:54:55am

re: #76 iossarian

I am shocked to discover that teachers’ unions exist to promote the employment rights of teachers.

Shocked, I tell you.

But what about the little children? Wouldn’t it be better for them if Miss Twinkle could be summarily fired for teaching evolution? Wouldn’t it be better for them if Mr. Flitter made fifteen dollars an hour so we could save the money for something better?

147 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:55:22am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

I think we’re going to see these experiments in a lot of red states. These new extremist Republicans are going to use their own states as guinea pigs for radical experiments in “making government smaller”. I don’t think it’s going to end up well for anybody.

It will go quite well with the publishers of revisionist text books on American history and life sciences.

148 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:55:22am

The anti-union proponents answer:

Pay everyone 15 dollars and hour max with no benefits or sick days. If they get sick they can always seek charity. No retirement either but they can look forward to a privatized Social Security program tied in with the market.

/

149 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:55:24am

re: #111 WindUpBird

If only they wore hats with teabags hanging from them. Then they’d be patriots.

150 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:55:46am

re: #120 iossarian

Those greedy older teachers, always stealing all the money away from the younger, “idealistic” ones.

If only all teachers could be fired at will after the age of 45! That would shake up the profession!

CaRoUsEl!

Renew! Renew!
/

151 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:55:50am

re: #138 ralphieboy

OMG, Mooslem teachers corrupting our youth!!11!!1

152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:56:15am

re: #144 BigPapa

God forbid if a union regulation snafu caused a house to burn while a bunch of union lackey firemen stood by arguing and scratching their heads.

That would suck, no?

We’re so close to the Dark Future, where for the 911 call, the cops show up with a credit card swipe machine

The Republicans want to make it so we live in a cool dystopian sci-fi movie! I can hardly wait!

153 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:56:19am

re: #113 Shropshire_Slasher

I heard the protesters are trashing the place with garbage.

I provided a statement from the police. Where is your story from?

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:56:40am

re: #85 harrylook

Uh, yeah. That’s what they are there for. But you should also keep in mind that when the choice is more money/benefits for the older teachers vs. dumping the younger one’s, guess whose ‘rights’ take precedence. They aren’t automatically morally superior to the taxpayers or the politicians.

No one is saying they’re ‘morally superior’. Their job is to bargain for and protect their members.

Yes, seniority is a fact of life in almost all businesses and industries.

155 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:56:45am

re: #86 Dreggas

That’s correct. Cuomo is trying to work within the existing scheme to adjust pensions so that they’re more in line with what the state can afford. He’s not calling to blow up the system entirely, which is the Wisconsin governor’s idea. Rather than striking a more reasonable tone and making reasonable offers to amend the pension system - he’s antagonizing the unions and Democrats - poisoning the discussion and will likely get much less done than Cuomo will get in NY.

States have underfunded pensions, raided pension funds to balance state obligations (so that they wouldn’t have to raise taxes), and made poor decisions that led to shortfalls, made giveaways to avoid union walkouts that didn’t take into account revenue issues in case of a recession (such as giving significant increases above inflation or bonus payments - as in NYC case) that lead to even higher long term pension costs for services and where benefits eat up an ever greater percentage of government obligations.

NY and NJ have decided to work on reducing long term pension costs. CT has opted to raise taxes (as proposed by the new governor) without adjusting workforce levels or pension costs.

Wisconsin looks to blow up the public union system altogether.

FWIW, NY has a law that prohibits certain public unions from striking and requires binding arbitration (Taylor Law).

156 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:57:08am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

But what about the little children? Wouldn’t it be better for them if Miss Twinkle could be summarily fired for teaching evolution? Wouldn’t it be better for them if Mr. Flitter made fifteen dollars an hour so we could save the money for something better?

If the teachers are “young” and “idealistic” enough, there are no problems.

Age and “lack of idealism”, those are your two big problems right there.

157 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:57:49am

re: #150 oaktree

CaRoUsEl!

Renew! Renew!
/

What is this “carousel” joke? I’ve seen it a few times now.

159 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:58:08am

re: #149 leftynyc

If only they wore hats with teabags hanging from them. Then they’d be patriots.

If only they were obese and bearded, shouting about the re-emergence of the gold standard, wearing ill fitting t-shirts proclaiming their genteel taste in firearms

We owe our lives to these brave souls

160 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:58:41am

This is union busting plain and simple.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:58:47am

re: #92 dmon

Harry,
Our union here in Ohio has agreed to a three year wage freeze, and loss of 5 paid holidays… what do you consider giving up a little?… maybe agree to a 50% pay cut and an 80 hour work week?

What teachers’ unions will sometimes do when they’re negotiating and don’t want to go out on strike is tell their members to work only the hours they are paid for.

This often amounts to cutting the work week in half.

162 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:59:06am

re: #152 WindUpBird

We’re so close to the Dark Future, where for the 911 call, the cops show up with a credit card swipe machine

The Republicans want to make it so we live in a cool dystopian sci-fi movie! I can hardly wait!

If we have to live in a Blade Runner country, I want flying police spinner cars, perpetual acid rain and sexy, murderous android replicants.

163 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:59:16am

re: #144 BigPapa

That would certainly suck, but the story you linked to was one about people who live outside of the fire department’s town having to pay for coverage. I don’t understand the union connection.

164 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 11:59:29am

re: #157 iossarian

What is this “carousel” joke? I’ve seen it a few times now.

It’s from Logan’s Run

165 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:00:25pm

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

No one is saying they’re ‘morally superior’. Their job is to bargain for and protect their members.

Yes, seniority is a fact of life in almost all businesses and industries.

And there’s a blindingly obvious reason for it: the older you get, the harder it becomes for you to recover from a serious life incident such as a firing or a major illness/accident.

So most people (or at least, those who can think about the future beyond the next episode of Dancing on Ice) are quite happy to sign up for a system that gives them less initially in return for greater security later in life.

But of course this is evil and socialist and un-American.

166 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:00:41pm

re: #162 celticdragon

If we have to live in a Blade Runner country, I want flying police spinner cars, perpetual acid rain and sexy, murderous android replicants.

I want to buy some eyeballs from that Lo Pan dude

I desperately want this all to be real, COME ON GOP, LET’S DO IT

167 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:00:46pm

re: #164 WindUpBird

It’s from Logan’s Run

There is no sanctuary…

168 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:01:13pm

re: #165 iossarian

And there’s a blindingly obvious reason for it: the older you get, the harder it becomes for you to recover from a serious life incident such as a firing or a major illness/accident.

So most people (or at least, those who can think about the future beyond the next episode of Dancing on Ice) are quite happy to sign up for a system that gives them less initially in return for greater security later in life.

But of course this is evil and socialist and un-American.

Fulfilling obligations is eviL! Stupid unions! You thought contracts meant something? Pish posh!

169 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:01:37pm

re: #156 iossarian

If the teachers are “young” and “idealistic” enough, there are no problems.

Age and “lack of idealism”, those are your two big problems right there.

Except that idealism is the true root of evil. Just ask Ayn Rand.

170 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:02:00pm

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

What teachers’ unions will sometimes do when they’re negotiating and don’t want to go out on strike is tell their members to work only the hours they are paid for.

This often amounts to cutting the work week in half.

It’s sort of awesome and sad all at once

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:02:17pm

re: #169 Fozzie Bear

Except that idealism is the true root of evil. Just ask Ayn Rand.

I did, I think she’s still dead, I didn’t get a response

172 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:02:18pm

re: #144 BigPapa

Being a rural tennessee department I would be surprised if they are unionized…….. this was a policy put in place by the management not the employees….

173 Justaminute  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:02:25pm

I’m just waiting on Al Jazeera to do a story on the protest and Hosni Walker.

174 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:02:43pm

re: #167 celticdragon

But who’s the runner, and who plays the Sandman?

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:02:49pm

re: #173 Justaminute

I’m just waiting on Al Jazeera to do a story on the protest and Hosni Walker.

hahahahahahaha

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:03:40pm

re: #174 lawhawk

But who’s the runner, and who plays the Sandman?

aren’t the victims in Running Man also called Runners?

How many sci-fi movies make reference to “runners”

it’s all very weird

177 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:03:46pm

re: #160 Gus 802

This is union busting plain and simple.

It’s also about trying to destroy a part of the Democrats GOTV effort. If unions voted mostly GOP, this wouldn’t be happening. They hate unions for the same reason they hated ACORN.

178 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:04:14pm

re: #171 WindUpBird

I did, I think she’s still dead, I didn’t get a response

She wasn’t really ever alive in the fullest sense of the word. The woman idealized a fucking serial killer. She had a girly crush on him. This is the woman whom Paul Ryan considers the greatest inspiration in his life.

179 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:04:56pm

re: #174 lawhawk

But who’s the runner, and who plays the Sandman?

Libruls get to be the runners, and the sandmen will be Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and Michelle Bachmann.

The sanitizer acid spraying robots are a bonus.

180 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:05:22pm

re: #157 iossarian

What is this “carousel” joke? I’ve seen it a few times now.

Dystopian book (and movie) called _Logan’s Run_. Essentially forced/expected euthanasia of citizens at a certain age (book - 21; movie - 30). Those who refuse the voluntary process, called “Carousel”, are hunted down and killed by enforcers called “Sandmen”.

181 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:06:07pm

re: #178 Fozzie Bear

She wasn’t really ever alive in the fullest sense of the word. The woman idealized a fucking serial killer. She had a girly crush on him. This is the woman whom Paul Ryan considers the greatest inspiration in his life.

That was some truly, terrifyingly sick shit. Rand had a crush on a guy who murdered and dismembered a little girl.

182 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:06:27pm

Anyone know what the consequences are for these Senators if keep ignoring the Call to the House and the police either don’t or can’t get them?

Could they go to jail or anything like that?

183 blueraven  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:06:54pm

re: #141 RadicalModerate

Keep in mind that the elections that allowed this Texas Legislature stacking - enabling an ELEVEN SEAT congressional swing to take place is what got Tom DeLay convicted for conspiracy and money laundering - he was funneling money to these districts.

Exactly…but he still swears he did nothing wrong. Something tells me he will never spend any time in jail over this. They will appeal until he gets the “right” judge.

184 webevintage  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:08:02pm
185 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:08:54pm

re: #184 webevintage

why am I not surprised?

Check this out too…

littlegreenfootballs.com

186 iossarian  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:09:28pm

re: #181 celticdragon

That was some truly, terrifyingly sick shit. Rand had a crush on a guy who murdered and dismembered a little girl.

That’ so weird. I never knew that about Ayn Rand (the child dismembering bit).

I did know that her philosophy is a crock of shite though.

187 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:09:36pm

re: #181 celticdragon

That was some truly, terrifyingly sick shit. Rand had a crush on a guy who murdered and dismembered a little girl.

What guy?

188 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:13:29pm

re: #84 Thunderhart

It is worth noting that even Democratic Governors Andrew Cuomo of New York and Jerry Brown of California are trying to rein in public sector unions’ pensions and bargaining rights, as these are greatly contributing to the deficits of those states!

Being able to retire on an infinite taxpayer-supported pension at age 55 is fiscal insanity, given the fact of ever-rising longevity, and every political leader regardless of state or party is having to address this fact.

The unions had a signed contract.

If you don’t like it find a way to create a new contract with them.

Fiscal insanity or not America should stick by its word and not abandon it just because somebody else got elected….

189 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:16:30pm

re: #187 moderatelyradicalliberal

This Guy

190 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:16:41pm

@StopBeck Stop Glenn Beck

Fox News describers teacher-student-firefighter protest in Wisconsin as a “Hate Rally.” twitpic.com

191 MinisterO  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:17:19pm

re: #57 harrylook

Battling teachers’ unions does not necessarily mean attacking education in general. I don’t know anything about the Wisconsin situation, but my kid goes to a private school with no unions, and I am quite sure her education much better than it would be in the public schools in my city.

I do hope her education much better… ///

You should have quit with the first sentence. The second is irrelevant and contentious.

192 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:17:50pm

@tpmmedia Talking Points Memo

Jim DeMint: President Barack Obama Is Not The Nation’s Leader tpm.ly ^@ryanjreilly

193 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:18:27pm

America is under assault by the right.

194 makeitstop  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:21:47pm

re: #192 Gus 802

@tpmmedia Talking Points Memo

Jim DeMint: President Barack Obama Is Not The Nation’s Leader [Link: tpm.ly…] ^@ryanjreilly

Oh, FFFS.

I won’t post what I think of DeMint.

spit

195 MinisterO  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:22:21pm

re: #102 harrylook

That’s giving up quite a bit. I was just responding in general to the idea that public unions isn’t a worthy topic of conversation in politics. I think it certainly is. Apparently I forgot why I never comment when I disagree slightly with the general opinion here.

I’ve also found it hard to disagree here without taking some abuse. It goes better if you stay on topic and avoid tossing out or responding to flame bait. Whining never helps.

196 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:22:42pm

re: #169 Fozzie Bear

Except that idealism is the true root of evil. Just ask Ayn Rand.

No if you ask Ayn rand she’d say its Altruism.

197 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:23:24pm

re: #192 Gus 802

@tpmmedia Talking Points Memo

Jim DeMint: President Barack Obama Is Not The Nation’s Leader [Link: tpm.ly…] ^@ryanjreilly

ORLY?

198 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:23:32pm

re: #192 Gus 802

OK, he thinks presidents don’t lead and we have to get rid of this one because he isn’t leading? What has he been smoking?

199 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:23:56pm

re: #192 Gus 802

@tpmmedia Talking Points Memo

Jim DeMint: President Barack Obama Is Not The Nation’s Leader [Link: tpm.ly…] ^@ryanjreilly

Democracy! No!

Gah, what a freaking country.

200 Ericus58  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:24:41pm

re: #189 calochortus

This Guy

What
The
Hell….

I never knew. What an abomination.

201 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:24:56pm

re: #192 Gus 802

@tpmmedia Talking Points Memo

Jim DeMint: President Barack Obama Is Not The Nation’s Leader [Link: tpm.ly…] ^@ryanjreilly

And I’m sure that Mr. DeMint doesn’t see any irony at all here:

Americans are “on our knees in front of China for credit,” DeMint told the mostly conservative attendees feasting on fried rice and fortune cookies at Tony Chang’s restaurant in the Chinatown section of D.C. “We’re on our knees in front of OPEC nations” for energy, DeMint said.

Never mind that the massive purchasing of US debt by China started in 2002 - and became the primary debt-holder in 2008, passing Japan.
washingtonpost.com
My memory seems to be a little bit faulty. Which party was in control of all three branches of the US government in 2008?

202 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:27:49pm

re: #201 RadicalModerate

Remember, liberals and Democrats exude some sort of incredible supernatural power which causes even the best efforts of noble True Conservatives to be insufficient to save humanity. If something went wrong, blame a liberal.

203 mr.fusion  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:28:48pm

re: #54 Jadespring

What’s going on?

Well for starters yesterday our Governor (a man who was the former CEO of Columbia/HCA and was forced to resign in disgrace after Columbia was forced to pay $1.7 BILLION in fines for Medicaid fraud and then spent $73 million on :30 second ads to buy the Governor’s mansion. A man who has appeared on Fox & Friends 4 times the past 3 weeks but hasn’t met with a single newspaper or local TV station in the state yet.)…anyways…yesterday he turned down $2.4 billion in federal funds for a leg of high speed rail which would have gone from Tampa to Orlando. The next leg would have gone from Orlando to Miami, and the Orlando to Jacksonville making Florida the blueprint for nationwide High Speed rail. Why did he turn it down you might be wondering…..well it’s something we’re all wondering as well. He did meet with two “leaders” of Florida 9-12 projects last week who demanded he turn it down. Come to find out he hasn’t seen the feasibility study yet which was due out next week and didn’t even take bids on the project (with the rumor being private companies would have picked up any cost over runs or revenue shortages caused by lack of ridership. Wouldnt have cost the taxpayers in Florida a dime.)

But that’s just the latest. I would encourage you to google “Rick Scott’s education plan” and take a look at what he wants to do. TPM called it a blue print for fraud. He’s stopped ALL regulations his first day in office. That includes environmental and “pill mill” regulation. Again, I would encourage you to google “Rick Scott” and “pill mills.” It’s a serious problem that Florida was trying to address but Hizzoner decided to halt. Keep in mind this is a man who owns a chain of walk-in clinics in Florida that is currently under investigation for fraud. Keep in mind that this is a man who, when he released his tax returns in his run for office, showed that he paid a paltry 14% income tax on tens of millions of profit. It also showed that the only charity he gave to was “Conservatives for Patients Rights,” an anti-health care reform arm that he set up AS A FREAKING CHARITY. Keep in mind that his chain of walk-in clinics makes money off of people who don’t have insurance. They literally do not accept people with insurance. Wondering why he’s fighting Obama-care so hard?

I could literally go on and on. He wants to reduce unemployment benefits from 26 weeks to 20 weeks. He wants to drug test unemployment recipients. He wants to disband the Department of Community Affairs…if you don’t live in Florida that probably means nothing to you, but again I would encourage googling “Rick Scott” and “Department of Community Affairs.”

And through all this we still have to keep in mind —- this is a man who defrauded Medicare, Medicaid, TriCare, etc etc out of BILLIONS. This is a man who was sued because his hospitals were kicking Neo-Natal patients out of ICU units weeks earlier than recommended because it was more cost effective. This man is out of control and for some reason he continues flying under the radar. I wish the national media would start paying attention to this guy.

204 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:29:54pm

re: #134 dmon

Prayers for young Dezmond.

205 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:30:11pm

re: #201 RadicalModerate

And I’m sure that Mr. DeMint doesn’t see any irony at all here:

Never mind that the massive purchasing of US debt by China started in 2002 - and became the primary debt-holder in 2008, passing Japan.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]
My memory seems to be a little bit faulty. Which party was in control of all three branches of the US government in 2008?

Mr DeMint also backed the SC lawmaker who wants their state currency:

The best hope we have right now is what you see Rick Scott doing in Florida” as well as “folks saying we’re going to get out of Medicare” and “folks developing alternative currencies — the federal government doesn’t like that,”
The senator is right—the Feds hate it. I had a cousin, one generation back, named Woodrow Wilson Deb. He got 10 to 20 for developing an atlernative currency. (Fur Reel).

206 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:30:51pm

CNN is covering the protest in Wisconsin. Looks like the firefighters are out there with the protesters in solidarity.

207 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:33:37pm

re: #189 calochortus

This Guy

Good Lord.

208 dmon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:33:42pm

re: #206 moderatelyradicalliberal


I have a feeling the State police wont be looking very hard for the missing legislators either….

209 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:35:33pm

re: #206 moderatelyradicalliberal

CNN is covering the protest in Wisconsin. Looks like the firefighters are out there with the protesters in solidarity.

YES

210 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:36:12pm

re: #203 mr.fusion

Wow.

I’m speechless.

Wow.

Thanks. I do have a soft spot for Florida. Spent a bit of time there as a kid. My grandparents lived in Sarasota.

211 mr.fusion  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:39:18pm

re: #210 Jadespring

Wow.

I’m speechless.

Wow.

Thanks. I do have a soft spot for Florida. Spent a bit of time there as a kid. My grandparents lived in Sarasota.

It’s really been heartbreaking for me to see what he’s been doing. I really don’t want to be melodramatic about the whole thing but there’s so much more to what he’s done in the month and a half he’s been in office that I just can’t put into a single post. Might be time for my first user page

212 theheat  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 12:54:34pm
The latest news is that Democrats in the state Senate have staged a walkout to deny Republicans a quorum, and the Republican Senate leader is threatening to have the state police round up the absent Democrats.

Welcome to pre-Nazi Germany.

It’s pretty obvious when the GOP decides to flex its collective muscle, this is where things are heading. Anything like intellectualism or rational discussion has simply been remanded to the same dustbin as science; it’s evil, and hinders their bare knuckles agenda.

The GOP vision for America is everyone magically has a job, even children, no matter how menial, every woman has a bun in the oven, the darkies and foreigners may or may not be tolerated, depending, gays would STFU, corporations make the rules, and when the planet becomes too depleted, prayer will fix everything.

If my dog came up with such an idea, and was able to articulate it, I’d kick her for being so shit fucking stupid. I’d tell her I was disappointed that given the opportunity for a ten pound terrier to formulate a plan, and even speak, that was the best she could come up with? And then I’d ask her why she thought any of this was realistic, or fair, or the best for everyone, and she’d feign stupidity and only hear “blah blah blah Ginger”. And then I’d kick her again.

I’m not really one to go around kicking dogs, but in the case of the GOP, it’s time for some ass kicking in their direction. I don’t want to live on a dumbed-down primitive thinking smoking cinder of a planet because it makes a bunch of end times fundies have their only orgasms outside of the missionary position.

213 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:09:19pm

Just thought I’d add this to the discussion -

Jim “dim” Hoft has weighed in on the Wisconsin state Senate walkout:

Shocker… Obama Administration Is Behind Chaos in Wisconsin – Students Used as Props

Because Obama’s “Organizing for America” website is hosting information regarding the Wisconsin Democratic senators, the President is orchestrating the “day of rage” protests in Wisconsin.

214 sagehen  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:10:17pm

All the Dems in Wisconsin’s state legislature have left the state so there’s no quorum to conduct business.

According to Wisconsin Democratic Party communications director Graeme Zielinski, “I know the whereabouts of not a single Democratic senator. I do not know what latitude they’re on, or know what longitude they’re on. I assume they’re in this hemisphere, I’ll say that.”

tptpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

215 sagehen  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:11:12pm

re: #212 theheat

I had a roommate who named her dog Ginger just because of that cartoon…

216 calochortus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:16:28pm

re: #211 mr.fusion

Do put up a page, by all means. Those of us not in Florida don’t follow the excitement like we probably should.

217 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 1:57:38pm

re: #75 Obdicut

You can’t promise that.

This is one of my heroes.

[Link: articles.sfgate.com…]

He fought for teacher’s rights to free expression.

Not just for pay.

Thanks for expanding my knowledge. Rest In Peace, Professor Muscatine.

218 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 2:07:00pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

Is an abstract principle one where you are moralizing the virtues of random happenstance?

“Don’t plan for anything! Chaos reigns! Your next day could be your last!”

Blood for the Blood God! Blood and skulls for our Lord Khorne!

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

219 webevintage  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 2:08:42pm

re: #203 mr.fusion


And through all this we still have to keep in mind —- this is a man who defrauded Medicare, Medicaid, TriCare, etc etc out of BILLIONS. This is a man who was sued because his hospitals were kicking Neo-Natal patients out of ICU units weeks earlier than recommended because it was more cost effective. This man is out of control and for some reason he continues flying under the radar. I wish the national media would start paying attention to this guy.

I really feel for you folks.
Hopefully voter remorse will kick in soon for folks in FL and WI and all over the country as these idiots set about looting their states for them and their buddies while the regular citizen suffers.

The high speed rail thing just amazes me in a state that has so much tourist trade.

220 Spocomptonite  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 2:11:21pm

I just realized… Egypt is the new Wisconsin (greater democracy) and Wisconsin is the new Egypt (more autocratic and militaristic). Is 2011 opposites year?

221 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 2:14:43pm

re: #152 WindUpBird

We’re so close to the Dark Future, where for the 911 call, the cops show up with a credit card swipe machine

The Republicans want to make it so we live in a cool dystopian sci-fi movie! I can hardly wait!

This made me think of one of the saddest scenes ever in a movie.

222 schlagerman  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 6:31:43pm

re: #4 HappyWarrior

Running out of town like gutless cowards, now that’s classy.

223 schlagerman  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 6:37:04pm

And I love the picture of Walker with crosshairs on him, and the picture of Walker as Hitler. Where’s the civility? Where are the media rants about the need for toning down political discourse? Oh, that’s right. It’s a Republican in the crosshairs so it’s ok.

224 schlagerman  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 6:42:31pm

And yes, Charles, union benefits that cannot be sustained are a problem.

225 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 7:20:28pm

re: #224 schlagerman

And yes, Charles, union benefits that cannot be sustained are a problem.

You and I agree on that. I know this bill means some pain, but it needs to be done.

Sorry to dead-thread, but I was at work while this thread was live.

226 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 7:22:49pm

re: #125 iossarian

commenting on your own comment? hilarious. my point was simply that, for example, the teachers on the negotiating committee could care less if the class sizes get bigger (via layoffs of younger teachers) as long as it means more money in their pockets. forgive me for touching a nerve.

227 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 7:26:24pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

1. You could be right or wrong about that.
2. Depending on the school, the teachers may be well treated or not. Public school teachers without unions would be treated like crap.
3. How much does the school cost? (You don’t need to answer this, but it’s probably well out of the reach of most parents in your city, especially if you’re right about 1.

as a matter of fact it’s relatively cheap. i live in a working class section of boston - dorchester. those who care and can spare $2500 a yr send their kids to a parochial school. (i presume others care about the religious education, but not me). the school doesn’t have the fancy stuff the public schools have, but the kids don’t fuck off in school, they respect the teachers, and they spend the day learning. that’s not what happens in the public schools in my neighborhood, i promise you.

228 harrylook  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 7:29:32pm

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

No one is saying they’re ‘morally superior’. Their job is to bargain for and protect their members.

Yes, seniority is a fact of life in almost all businesses and industries.

not for me. if i suck at my job, it doesn’t matter how long i’ve been there.

229 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 8:35:53pm

Yo! Leonidas Hoplite. Shove it.

230 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 8:38:44pm

re: #229 Gus 802

Yo! Leonidas Hoplite. Shove it.

Serial downdinger. Was about to also call him out.
Leonidas Hoplite, come out and debate!

231 Gus  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 8:39:36pm

re: #230 Varek Raith

Serial downdinger. Was about to also call him out.
Leonidas Hoplite, come out and debate!

I noticed that just now. Someone that hasn’t commented since January 5th to boot.

232 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 8:42:06pm

re: #231 Gus 802

I noticed that just now. Someone that hasn’t commented since January 5th to boot.

I love it when they’re angry enough to do a whole clickfest down the thread

HOW DARE YOU, BIRDPERSON, HAVE AN ABSTRACT CLICK! AND THEN AGAIN!

233 lostlakehiker  Thu, Feb 17, 2011 10:18:59pm

re: #203 mr.fusion

Well for starters yesterday our Governor (a man who was the former CEO of Columbia/HCA and was forced to resign in disgrace… [snip] He wants to drug test unemployment recipients.

With you on most of that, apart from the high cost boondoggle [aka high speed train], and the drug testing.

Wouldn’t it be easier to get a job if you kept a clear head? Isn’t it better for the state if those queuing up for state help because they can’t find a job at least try their best to get one?

234 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:01:03am

re: #233 lostlakehiker

With you on most of that, apart from the high cost boondoggle [aka high speed train], and the drug testing.

Wouldn’t it be easier to get a job if you kept a clear head? Isn’t it better for the state if those queuing up for state help because they can’t find a job at least try their best to get one?

Use the unemployment system for social experiments? Ever heard of the war on drugs and all of its success?

235 waveriderca  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 2:51:53am

Hysteria because the bill that’s being proposed is targeting state workers asking them to contribute a portion to their health and pension benefits. The loss of collective bargaining is targeting to just health and pension benefits so they can’t just muscle it back. Also there’s an addition to unions having to re-vote to stay a union regularly and not allowing union dues to be automatically deducted. (school teachers in Wisconsin aren’t affected as part of this bill since they’re local not state again this bill does not apply to them) This is what causes Hitler comparisons? Asking people to actually have to pay less than what everyone else does for health care and pensions like the rest of the working world?

236 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:05:54am

re: #235 waveriderca

Not just health and pension—future wages are capped to cost-of-living. The economics are secondary, this is a straight up unionbusting confrontation.

(You’re posting on a dead thread—more people will see you if you come to the top thread.)

237 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:08:04am

re: #233 lostlakehiker


Wouldn’t it be easier to get a job if you kept a clear head?

Probably.

Isn’t it better for the state if those queuing up for state help because they can’t find a job at least try their best to get one?

Yep.

So what? Punitive measures like this aren’t going to achieve that. It’ll just create an underclass of people denied unemployment benefits, destitute because of a failed drug test. Gee, I wonder what paths would be available to them. Yay, crime!

Why not require them to remain sober and spend eight hours a day looking for a job, while we’re at it?

238 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:08:49am

re: #235 waveriderca

Also there’s an addition to unions having to re-vote to stay a union regularly and not allowing union dues to be automatically deducted.


That’s union-busting.

239 WaveriderCA  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:14:54am

re: #236 Decatur Deb

well I no longer check LGF as frequently as i used to so too bad.

240 mr.fusion  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 10:58:14am

re: #233 lostlakehiker

With you on most of that, apart from the high cost boondoggle [aka high speed train], and the drug testing.

Wouldn’t it be easier to get a job if you kept a clear head? Isn’t it better for the state if those queuing up for state help because they can’t find a job at least try their best to get one?

Well there’s a few things on that

First, because unemployment is “insurance” and not an entitlement or paid for by a tax those who have paid into it deserve it whether or not they pass a drug test. It’s their money that is put aside if they are to be unfortunate enough to be without work.

Second, Florida actually tried this in the past and the Florida Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional —- their reason: you can’t pick and choose which services you are going to drug test for. The only way you can drug test unemployment recipients is if you drug test anyone who uses a government service, ie: everytime you use a road you need to be drug tested. Every time you call the cops you need to be drug tested. Every day you send your child to a public school you need to be drug tested.

Third, what do you do about challenged tests? We’re talking about $250 a week here. Sounds like nothing but to those who lose their jobs and don’t have anything saved up it’s a lifeline. What do you do about the people who ate a poppy seed bagel before taking their tests? Do they have to do without the unemployment insurance they spent their whole lives paying into just because they ate a bagel?

Last but not least, as I said in my second paragraph Florida tried this before. It is cost prohibitive. Setting up the infrastructure and paying for the tests cost more than it saves….studies showed at the time that the rate of drug use among the unemployed is exactly the same as it is among the general populace.

There’s no reason to do it other than to demonize poor people.

241 mr.fusion  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 11:02:18am

re: #237 Obdicut


Why not require them to remain sober and spend eight hours a day looking for a job, while we’re at it?

haha….guess what?

Scott’s team blasted the state’s current unemployment compensation practices, saying that Florida does little to get its more than 1 million out-of-work citizens back on the job quickly.

The report also indicated that the state is too lax on those receiving unemployment benefits and should crack down by ensuring that the unemployed are actually job-hunting.

Scott should begin by requiring those applying for unemployment benefits to prove they’ve applied for jobs first, verify that the unemployed are looking for jobs and stop benefits to those who aren’t. And anyone still receiving benefits after 12 weeks should be forced to “work” at community service jobs in exchange for their unemployment checks.

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