House Republicans Pass Measure to Defund Planned Parenthood

The Republican war on women’s rights
Politics • Views: 26,628

The Republican-controlled House of Representatives is dealing with the most important problems in America by passing a measure that strips Planned Parenthood of federal funding.

The Republican Party has declared total war on women’s reproductive rights, and Planned Parenthood is an organization that does an enormous amount of good for millions of low-income women and their families. Therefore it must be destroyed.

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132 comments

1 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:02:03pm

They know it won’t pass the Senate but that is not the point, they have showed their Ideological Purity.

2 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:02:50pm

Planned Parenthood provides a host of services, like contraceptives, cancer screening, natal education, and they do it cheaply and effectively.

Defunding them would raise costs at hospitals and elsewhere.

Fiscal responsibility, my ass.

3 Ericus58  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:03:54pm

Where can I see a list of cast votes?

4 Gus  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:04:06pm

re: #2 Obdicut

Planned Parenthood provides a host of services, like contraceptives, cancer screening, natal education, and they do it cheaply and effectively.

Defunding them would raise costs at hospitals and elsewhere.

Fiscal responsibility, my ass.

That’s too logical for the GOP.

5 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:04:32pm

In important news, Federal sponsorship of the NASCAR team was saved.

[Link: news.google.com…]

6 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:05:00pm

More pregnant teenagers either going into back allies or giving birth to children they can’t afford forcing them to drop out of school, YIP-Fucking-IE…

7 Skeetghazi  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:06:37pm

Yeah, the election was all about jobs.

Frauds. Congrats to the idiotic voters who believed them.

8 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:06:45pm

re: #5 Decatur Deb

In important news, Federal sponsorship of the NASCAR team was saved.

[Link: news.google.com…]

So women, kids and family health out and manly man cars in. BOOYAH!

9 iossarian  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:07:32pm

re: #5 Decatur Deb

In important news, Federal sponsorship of the NASCAR team was saved.

Exactly. Nice image of the flier that illustrates the pro-NASCAR mentality here:

[Link: www.americanindependent.com…]

10 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:07:54pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Yeah, the election was all about jobs.

Frauds. Congrats to the idiotic voters who believed them.

I am so glad you said that. Jobs and smaller gubbmint! Woohoo!

11 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:07:55pm

It’s nice to know the GOP values NASCAR over the health of women. Dickheads.

12 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:08:54pm

re: #2 Obdicut

Planned Parenthood provides a host of services, like contraceptives, cancer screening, natal education, and they do it cheaply and effectively.

Defunding them would raise costs at hospitals and elsewhere.

Fiscal responsibility, my ass.

I’m not sure you understand.

A lot of women who receive services like breast exams at Planned Parenthood are poor and/or minorities.

If more women from the “parasite class” (actual term used by a libertarian I’ve been arguing with) get cancer, it’s a fair trade-off, the upside being that wealthy people can pay less in taxes.

13 Ericus58  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:10:31pm

Who are the 11 Dem’s that voted in favor and who are the 7 Rep’s that voted against?

14 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:10:56pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Yeah, the election was all about jobs.

Frauds. Congrats to the idiotic voters who believed them.

Anybody who believed that bullshit owes the rest of us an apology. At least I can respect the people who know exactly what was coming and voted GOP because this is what they wanted. For the rest who swear they had no idea that they would go this far, fuck you. What is it about the differences between the two parties you don’t get at this point?

15 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:11:32pm

To me, I’d be a lot more sympathetic if the anti abortion political forces were more supportive of things like helping poor mothers out, supporting realistic or any sex education, but no they do crap like this.

16 mr.fusion  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:12:23pm

re: #14 moderatelyradicalliberal

Anybody who believed that bullshit owes the rest of us an apology. At least I can respect the people who know exactly what was coming and voted GOP because this is what they wanted. For the rest who swear they had no idea that they would go this far, fuck you. What is it about the differences between the two parties you don’t get at this point?

As much love as I have for those union workers in WI I want to know how many of them voted in 2010. How many made phone calls on behalf of their candidate or went and knocked on doors……it’s not like the GOP has been hiding what they are or what they want to do.

17 webevintage  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:12:28pm

I bet every woman who posts here at one time or another went to a PP office.
Not for an abortion, but for a cheap pap or cheap BC pills or because of a nasty infection (in the days before we could get the good stuff over the counter) or for a “real” pregnancy test in the days before the at home ones were so good.

I’ve used PP over the years (I’m 48) whenever I did not have insurance or my OB/GYN could not fit me in (or was off delivering a baby and I was not going to wait for another damn appointment) or I did not have enough money for my deductible.

Now some people are lucky and their local health department does pregnancy tests or paps…but that is not the case everywhere.

so fuck you Republicans…fuck you…I hope you all come down with the clap and are unable to find male health services.
hahahahaha, what am I thinking? There is NEVER a lack of health care for those bastards.

18 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:12:35pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

To me, I’d be a lot more sympathetic if the anti abortion political forces were more supportive of things like helping poor mothers out, supporting realistic or any sex education, but no they do crap like this.

Hey!! Bristol is giving it her all.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:12:43pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

To me, I’d be a lot more sympathetic if the anti abortion political forces were more supportive of things like helping poor mothers out, supporting realistic or any sex education, but no they do crap like this.

Two Words:

Abstinence

Only

20 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:13:31pm

re: #12 Talking Point Detective

If more women from the “parasite class” (actual term used by a libertarian I’ve been arguing with)

Oh dear you found one of those types. One of the only times I ever felt like literally beating someone over their head during a discussion was when I found my own specimen.

The worst part was he wasn’t even using the term in order to get under my skin. He was rambling in this sick and creepy academic way about it.

21 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:14:47pm

re: #3 Ericus58

Where can I see a list of cast votes?

I’m still looking— was this HR 3?

[Link: thomas.loc.gov…]

22 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:15:18pm

re: #13 Ericus58

Who are the 11 Dem’s that voted in favor

Shitheads.

and who are the 7 Rep’s that voted against?

Sane.


Seriously, I can’t find the actual results right now.

23 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:16:00pm

re: #16 mr.fusion

As much love as I have for those union workers in WI I want to know how many of them voted in 2010. How many made phone calls on behalf of their candidate or went and knocked on doors…it’s not like the GOP has been hiding what they are or what they want to do.

I’ll bet they did vote, and most certainly some voted for the GOP, but it’s their neighbors, friends and family that stayed home that was the real problem. I don’t think anybody even slightly left leaning will be staying home in 2012. I know I’ll be knocking on doors and making phone calls.

24 Gus  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:16:45pm

re: #21 iceweasel

I’m still looking— was this HR 3?

[Link: thomas.loc.gov…]

Here’s the specific amendment:

H.AMDT.95 (A085)
Amends: H.R.1
Sponsor: Rep Pence, Mike [IN-6] (offered 2/17/2011)

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
An amendment numbered 11 printed in the Congressional Record to prohibit the use of funds for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc.

25 webevintage  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:17:06pm

I think this is an amendment to the budget they are working on…right?

26 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:17:34pm

re: #17 webevintage

I bet every woman who posts here at one time or another went to a PP office.
Not for an abortion, but for a cheap pap or cheap BC pills or because of a nasty infection (in the days before we could get the good stuff over the counter) or for a “real” pregnancy test in the days before the at home ones were so good.

I’ve used PP over the years (I’m 48) whenever I did not have insurance or my OB/GYN could not fit me in (or was off delivering a baby and I was not going to wait for another damn appointment) or I did not have enough money for my deductible.

Now some people are lucky and their local health department does pregnancy tests or paps…but that is not the case everywhere.

so fuck you Republicans…fuck you…I hope you all come down with the clap and are unable to find male health services.
hahahahaha, what am I thinking? There is NEVER a lack of health care for those bastards.

My grandmother went to PP because there was once a time when it was the only place that a black woman could get reproductive services in segregated Texas.

27 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:17:59pm

AMENDMENT PURPOSE

to demonstrate that Tea Party ideology has become the determining factor in Republican politicis.

28 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:18:28pm

Fucking bastards

29 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:18:36pm

I posed this question last night: Does anybody else get the feeling that the TGOP is creating a huge counter wave to the 2010 wave?

30 webevintage  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:21:38pm

The important thing to remember is that NO FEDERAL funds are used by PP to perform abortions because of the Hyde amendment so this amendment from Pence is only about de-funding affordable health care for women.
ALL WOMEN.

31 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:21:41pm

re: #27 ralphieboy

AMENDMENT PURPOSE

to demonstrate that Tea Party ideology has become the determining factor in Republican politicis.

AMENDMENT PURPOSE

To demonstrate that the Tea Party ideology has always been about social conservatives who want to repeal the last 100 years of progress this country has made and that all talk of fiscal responsibility is about getting even with people they don’t like and over turning all New Deal/Great Society safety net programs.

32 Ericus58  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:23:40pm

re: #30 webevintage

The important thing to remember is that NO FEDERAL funds are used by PP to perform abortions because of the Hyde amendment so this amendment from Pence is only about de-funding affordable health care for women.
ALL WOMEN.

This.

33 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:23:43pm

re: #30 webevintage

The important thing to remember is that NO FEDERAL funds are used by PP to perform abortions because of the Hyde amendment so this amendment from Pence is only about de-funding affordable health care for women.
ALL WOMEN.

Yep but they will be telling their base that they stopped PP from “using your tax dollars to kill babies.” It’s up to the Dems to stop them from selling that narrative.

34 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:24:11pm

You would think that a party as xenophobically paranoid of poor minorities might actually be supportive of a group who would help them have fewer children and actually be able to afford taking care of the children they do have.

35 mr.fusion  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:25:40pm

re: #29 moderatelyradicalliberal

I posed this question last night: Does anybody else get the feeling that the TGOP is creating a huge counter wave to the 2010 wave?

I don’t know. I certainly hope so, but for God’s sake who knows? Are people paying attention? I don’t know if they are…..the Republicans are just so damn good at politicking and messaging that it almost feels like they can do whatever they want and simply because they are the opposition to “The Other” in the White House they’re going to command a substantial amount of votes.

It’s disheartening

36 Blizard  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:26:58pm

re: #30 webevintage

The important thing to remember is that NO FEDERAL funds are used by PP to perform abortions because of the Hyde amendment so this amendment from Pence is only about de-funding affordable health care for women.
ALL WOMEN.

Wow.

Wow. Somebody please tell me this won’t *really* happen. Right?

As a female American, I just have to say ‘what the fuck’!!! SERIOUSLY!?!!?

37 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:28:16pm

re: #36 Blizard

The senate should be able to stop it. Unless they horse-trade it.

38 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:28:49pm

re: #35 mr.fusion

I don’t know. I certainly hope so, but for God’s sake who knows? Are people paying attention? I don’t know if they are…the Republicans are just so damn good at politicking and messaging that it almost feels like they can do whatever they want and simply because they are the opposition to “The Other” in the White House they’re going to command a substantial amount of votes.

It’s disheartening

I know I would feel better if the Democrats had a noise machine that was as effective as the GOP does, but they don’t. With the MSM so afraid of being accused of liberal bias, I just don’t see how the masses of people find out about this stuff. Most people don’t pay attention to politics on a daily basis.

39 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:29:01pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Yeah, the election was all about jobs.

Frauds. Congrats to the idiotic voters who believed them.

Well, it’s all about some jobs, just not middle class jobs :D

40 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:31:52pm

re: #36 Blizard

Wow.

Wow. Somebody please tell me this won’t *really* happen. Right?

As a female American, I just have to say ‘what the fuck’!!! SERIOUSLY!?!!?

President Obama would never sign this bill and it won’t pass the Senate, but here’s a scary thought: The GOP is just a couple of seats away from controlling the Senate after 2012 and if Obama doesn’t win re-election, there is no safe guard against this shit becoming the law of the land. Democrats keeping the White House is the only real protection we have from the socons taking us back 100 years.

41 webevintage  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:42:15pm

re: #36 Blizard

Wow.

Wow. Somebody please tell me this won’t *really* happen. Right?

As a female American, I just have to say ‘what the fuck’!!! SERIOUSLY!?!!?

I can’t see this making it though the Senate.
But this War on Women 2011 is just a glimpse of what these bastards would like to do if they get back into the White House.

42 mr.fusion  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:45:15pm

re: #38 moderatelyradicalliberal

I know I would feel better if the Democrats had a noise machine that was as effective as the GOP does, but they don’t. With the MSM so afraid of being accused of liberal bias, I just don’t see how the masses of people find out about this stuff. Most people don’t pay attention to politics on a daily basis.

It’s not just the noise machine it’s that Bag Nation seems to get away with all these little lies that become a part of the mainstream. The obvious is Obama’s birthplace, but my favorite right now is “apology tour.” Ask any conservative if Barack Obama went on an “apology tour” and they’ll say absolutely. Of course they can’t point to one instance of the President saying “I’m sorry” or “I apologize,” but that doesn’t matter. He went on an apology tour. And we let them get away with all of these little lies because they seem so outrageous…..yet they make their way into the mainstream and feed into “The Other” campaign they’ve been waging since the campaign.

43 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 12:55:07pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

To me, I’d be a lot more sympathetic if the anti abortion political forces were more supportive of things like helping poor mothers out, supporting realistic or any sex education, but no they do crap like this.

This. I’ve come to have a simple test: What is the speaker’s stand on contraceptives — on Griswold? Far too often they’re against that as well, at which point I realize the life of the unborn is a secondary issue for them.

44 Lidane  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:08:13pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

It’s nice to know the GOP values NASCAR over the health of women. Dickheads.

Seriously.

What a bunch of assholes.

45 leftynyc  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:09:29pm

Another assault on women’s rights. Pardon my language but the only word that keeps coming into my head is motherfuckers. I’m not sure when it happened but the republican party went from being my opposition to being my enemy.

46 Lidane  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:11:14pm

re: #30 webevintage

The important thing to remember is that NO FEDERAL funds are used by PP to perform abortions because of the Hyde amendment so this amendment from Pence is only about de-funding affordable health care for women.
ALL WOMEN.

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops, with giant flashing neon signs and everything.

Federal funds were already denied for abortion. This is just an attack on women, plain and simple.

47 leftynyc  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:12:45pm

re: #17 webevintage


Went to Planned Parenthood all through college and for several years after. Weirdly enough, the first trip I made there after college, I found my 5th grade teacher there volunteering. Oh, and no abortions.

48 mr.fusion  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:28:12pm

re: #46 Lidane

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops, with giant flashing neon signs and everything.

You think that would change their minds?

In the words of the immortal Gob Bluth: Come on!

49 theheat  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:47:03pm

re: #46 Lidane

It’s an attack on all women of all backgrounds, all colors, all ages, all walks of life. If offends me deeply some women think so little of others they have led the charge to defund PP using theatrics and hysteria. By doing so, they have taken away one of the best, most widespread, and most educational avenues for women to plan and control their reproductive futures and take care of their physical health.

You wrap something up in a flag, hand it a bible, and assign a team of makeup artists and script writers - it’s amazing the chum people will swallow.
re: #14 moderatelyradicalliberalAbsofuckinglutely. You nailed it.

50 Lidane  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:52:57pm

re: #48 mr.fusion

You think that would change their minds?

In the words of the immortal Gob Bluth: Come on!

These Republican assholes are willing to let women die just to score points with the anti-abortion nutjobs. Of course they won’t change their minds.

However, it’s not about them. I want people to realize the malice behind this bill because abortion isn’t federally funded anyways.

51 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:07:45pm

re: #47 leftynyc

Went to Planned Parenthood all through college and for several years after. Weirdly enough, the first trip I made there after college, I found my 5th grade teacher there volunteering. Oh, and no abortions.

I got tested at a PP before a relationship, very handy

52 sagehen  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:19:19pm

re: #17 webevintage

I bet every woman who posts here at one time or another went to a PP office.
Not for an abortion, but for a cheap pap or cheap BC pills or because of a nasty infection (in the days before we could get the good stuff over the counter) or for a “real” pregnancy test in the days before the at home ones were so good.

I’ve used PP over the years (I’m 48) whenever I did not have insurance or my OB/GYN could not fit me in (or was off delivering a baby and I was not going to wait for another damn appointment) or I did not have enough money for my deductible.

Now some people are lucky and their local health department does pregnancy tests or paps…but that is not the case everywhere.

so fuck you Republicans…fuck you…I hope you all come down with the clap and are unable to find male health services.
hahahahaha, what am I thinking? There is NEVER a lack of health care for those bastards.


When I was too young/poor for my own “real” doctor (my regular medical care came from doctors who worked with my dad, no way would I have felt secure about patient confidentiality from any of them), I went to Planned Parenthood for birth control pills. Since I was there anyway, they insisted on doing a full physical, pap smear, gave me a talk about STD’s, a bunch of pamphlets and a box of condoms. There was a “suggested” donation amount, but no required fee.

They’re the reason I never had an unplanned pregnancy, They’re the reason I’ve never had to make a choice whether or not to have an abortion.

53 sagehen  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:20:48pm

re: #29 moderatelyradicalliberal

I posed this question last night: Does anybody else get the feeling that the TGOP is creating a huge counter wave to the 2010 wave?

Yes.

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 3:26:16pm

re: #52 sagehen

When I was too young/poor for my own “real” doctor (my regular medical care came from doctors who worked with my dad, no way would I have felt secure about patient confidentiality from any of them), I went to Planned Parenthood for birth control pills. Since I was there anyway, they insisted on doing a full physical, pap smear, gave me a talk about STD’s, a bunch of pamphlets and a box of condoms. There was a “suggested” donation amount, but no required fee.

They’re the reason I never had an unplanned pregnancy, They’re the reason I’ve never had to make a choice whether or not to have an abortion.

PP are an clear and undisputed resource for women, attacking planned parenthood is an unambiguous attack on women

55 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 4:11:17pm
56 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 4:12:12pm

re: #55 brandoncraig

Where in the constitution does it give the federal government the right to give tax dollars to organizations like Planned Parenthood?

The general welfare clause.

57 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 4:32:32pm

re: #56 Obdicut

The general welfare clause.

Smart aleck.

There you go with your facts again.

58 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 4:47:25pm
59 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 4:49:56pm

re: #58 brandoncraig

Yeah? When they bought the Louisiana Purchase, which enumerated power did they act under?

60 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 4:54:34pm

re: #58 brandoncraig

Before 1937 Congress stuck within the boundaries of the 17 enumerated powers granted under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. This clearly defined the areas over which Congress could enact legislation including the allocation of funds and levying of taxes. Anything outside these enumerated powers was considered a matter for the states.

James Madison, when asked if the “general welfare” clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee:

“If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.”

You know if your not going to use your own words it’s usually best practice to post the link to the site one cuts and paste from.

61 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:00:15pm
62 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:01:35pm

re: #61 brandoncraig

Exactly. So:

When they bought the Louisiana Purchase, which enumerated power did they act under?

Feel free to account for any of the other purchases of land, too.

And the space program.

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:05:03pm

re: #55 brandoncraig

If state and local governments want to fund Planned Parenthood then that is their business.

But to say that the federal government not giving my federal tax dollars to a private organization is an attack on women is asinine.

Where in the constitution does it give the federal government the right to give tax dollars to organizations like Planned Parenthood?

hahah hello troll

64 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:09:22pm
65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:34:16pm

re: #64 brandoncraig

How does saying that I don’t think funding Planned Parenthood at the federal level is constitutional make one a troll?

I’ve been around here before. You and I have discussed Ronnie James Dio a couple of times here in the live chat.

Your definition of a troll is puzzling.

too much copypasta = troll behavior


ignoring all Obdicut’s responses even though (or perhaps because) he seems far more researched than you = troll behavior

66 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:36:19pm

re: #55 brandoncraig

If state and local governments want to fund Planned Parenthood then that is their business.

But to say that the federal government not giving my federal tax dollars to a private organization is an attack on women is asinine.

Where in the constitution does it give the federal government the right to give tax dollars to organizations like Planned Parenthood?

I mean, honestly, this line alone, this is either troll behavior or you are so blindingly ignorant as to how our country actually works, that I feel bad for you

67 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:41:26pm
68 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:42:38pm

re: #67 brandoncraig

I answered Obdicut’s response. All of the things he mentions could be argued weren’t constitutional.

Then that contradicts your copypasta claim that “Before 1937 Congress stuck within the boundaries of the 17 enumerated powers granted under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. “

Doesn’t it?

69 pragmatist  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:47:30pm

Elections have consequences.

Did YOU vote? Did you make sure YOUR spouse voted? Did you make sure
YOUR children who were of age voted? Too many people stayed away from
the voting booths in 2010 as some sort of protest.

And now we have THIS.

And the stuff that is happening in Wisconsin. And Ohio. And here in Illinois the legislature is discussing a plan to change the pension rights of CURRENT employees. Next, I’m guessing it will be to change the pension rights of CURRENT RETIREES.

Don’t get angry. DO GET ORGANIZED. At the next election make sure, and all of your like-minded relatives, friends and acquaintances vote. It is how we Americans express our opinions.

Hundreds of thousands of brave Americans made the ultimate sacrifice so that WE could vote. Hundreds of thousands more were wounded or lost limbs so that WE could vote.

IMHO not voting, not staying informed on the issues, is dishonoring their noble sacrifices.

70 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:47:36pm

re: #67 brandoncraig

I answered Obdicut’s response. All of the things he mentions could be argued weren’t constitutional. However, that doesn’t excuse giving federal tax dollars to Planned Parenthood.

I’m sorry that you think cutting and pasting the words of James Madison and John Quincy Adams are “trollish.”

Let’s be honest, you think anyone who disagrees with the “party line” and dares to post a conservative or libertarian viewpoint on an issue is a “troll.”


Nah, I’m just suspicious of people who lay a bunch of jive they didn’t write at the end of a dying thread that doesn’t add up

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:48:28pm

re: #69 pragmatist

This is why I like Oregon: ballot? comes in the mail. I vote, I sign it, i drop it in the mail. takes me a matter of minutes. Done!

Republicans don’t like vote by mail. lets too many poor people vote 8-)

72 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:49:44pm
73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:54:46pm

re: #72 brandoncraig

There are exceptions to every rule, but generally before 1937 Congress did stick within those boundaries.

Obviously, you could come up with other examples where they did not. But it was not until that era when the “general welfare clause” was interpreted to mean the federal government could do whatever they wanted.

Don’t you think a constitutional limit on the federal government is a good thing?

yeah… and you pop up with this in a thread about planned parenthood being defunded for clearly vicously social conservative reasons to render women powerless over their own bodies and remove their resources by which they get care?

sorry troll, drive through, thanks for your time

74 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:57:52pm

re: #72 brandoncraig

Ah. So when you said:

Before 1937 Congress stuck within the boundaries of the 17 enumerated powers granted under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution.

You didn’t actually mean it. You meant something else entirely. You meant, in fact, the opposite: Congress did not stick within those boundaries.

“Yeah, they stuck within those boundaries— aside from, you know, massive payments of money to hugely expand the country, including creating new states.”

Sheesh.

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 5:57:53pm

re: #72 brandoncraig

There are exceptions to every rule, but generally before 1937 Congress did stick within those boundaries.

Obviously, you could come up with other examples where they did not. But it was not until that era when the “general welfare clause” was interpreted to mean the federal government could do whatever they wanted.

Don’t you think a constitutional limit on the federal government is a good thing?

Also, this is a straw man of the first order. Nobody thinks the fed could be able to “do whatever it wants” Nobody on this blog, at all, in any way, so stop behaving like a child

I’m pretty baffled as to how you are so very very motivated to come throw down with your mad ctrl-c ctrl-v skills. doesn’t seem relevant unless you’re a troll!

76 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:00:58pm
77 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:01:22pm

This “before 1937” shit seems to be a libertarian talking point, if google is to be trusted ;-)

78 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:02:31pm

re: #76 brandoncraig

I just think calling someone a troll doesn’t add to the dialogue.

Obdicut at least showed where my point might be flawed, but all you did was repeat hyperbolic talking points, since you can’t honestly believe that defunding Planned Parenthood at the federal level means that the result is that it will “render women powerless over their own bodies.”

So why is it when I type “before 1937” +constitution into google, all I get is libertarian schlock?

Go back to Reason magazine, dude, we aren’t buying

79 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:03:01pm

re: #76 brandoncraig

I just think calling someone a troll doesn’t add to the dialogue.

Obdicut at least showed where my point might be flawed, but all you did was repeat hyperbolic talking points, since you can’t honestly believe that defunding Planned Parenthood at the federal level means that the result is that it will “render women powerless over their own bodies.”

You are not dialogue, you are ctrl-c pollution

80 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:09:15pm

re: #76 brandoncraig

I just think calling someone a troll doesn’t add to the dialogue.

Then why not talk to me, instead?

Obdicut at least showed where my point might be flawed,

There’s no ‘might’ to it. Your point is completely false. There is no provision in the Constitution for adding new states, whatsoever. Doing so is an obvious, gigantic power outside the scope of those granted in Article 1, Section 8. That power is found in Article IV, section 3.

You pretend that you’re all about the Constitution, but you don’t even know what it says.

81 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:09:52pm
82 sagehen  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:10:59pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

So why is it when I type “before 1937” +constitution into google, all I get is libertarian schlock?

Go back to Reason magazine, dude, we aren’t buying

The 1937 Wickard decision, something to do with wheat and the interstate commerce clause, really upsets laissez-faire libertarian types, because it made things that happen within state lines “interstate” by virtue of how they affect national aggregates.

(oddly, they don’t mind that the interstate transportation clause was similarly broadened by an 1804 decision about the Erie Canal, which doesn’t cross any state lines).

83 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:12:38pm

re: #81 brandoncraig

I believe that a strong case can be made that giving federal tax dollars to a private organization like Planned Parenthood is outside the purview of the federal government.

Then make the case. So far, you’ve done nothing of the sort.

84 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:13:35pm
85 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:13:35pm

re: #80 Obdicut

There is no provision in the Constitution Article 1, Section 8 for adding new states, whatsoever

PIMF.

86 sagehen  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:16:23pm

re: #84 brandoncraig

“You pretend that you’re all about the Constitution, but you don’t even know what it says.”

I get the idea that you are not a fan of the 10th Amendment.

Where do you stand on DOMA? Do states have the right to decide who can get married, and “full faith and credit” requires other states to recognize those marriages?

Where do you stand on faith-based initiatives, do you think the federal government shouldn’t be giving money to private, religious organizations, even if they’re just using that money for adoption agencies or soup kitchens?

87 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:16:52pm

re: #84 brandoncraig

Can you explain to me which rights are reserved to states, and which are reserved to people, according to the 10th amendment, please?

88 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:24:42pm

How odd. For some reason, people who love the 10th amendment never have an answer for that.

89 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:28:05pm
90 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:34:53pm

re: #89 brandoncraig

I would argue that it would be up to the state legislatures what issues “are reserved to the people” as the states usually let counties and municipalities determine their own laws in many areas.

So there is no limit to the powers of state legislatures?

issues like marriage laws should be up to the states.

Do you simply not understand the full faith and credit clause? Article IV, section 1.

91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:40:16pm

re: #88 Obdicut

How odd. For some reason, people who love the 10th amendment never have an answer for that.

lol

92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:41:09pm

re: #89 brandoncraig

I’m against the federal government giving money to faith based initiatives and believe issues like marriage laws should be up to the states.

I would argue that it would be up to the state legislatures what issues “are reserved to the people” as the states usually let counties and municipalities determine their own laws in many areas.

so human rights are up to the states? Okay!

Yeee haw, the confedaracy shall rise again!

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:41:52pm

re: #81 brandoncraig

Let’s forget about whether my posts are “pollution” or “trollish” or whatever and stick to the point.

I believe that a strong case can be made that giving federal tax dollars to a private organization like Planned Parenthood is outside the purview of the federal government.

I base this on the constitution and the concept of federalism.

You obviously believe that the federal government should take our tax dollars and decide what private organizations get funding and that is your right.

But what do you base your belief on?

The point is actually that you’re trollish

94 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:42:03pm
95 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:43:31pm

re: #82 sagehen

The 1937 Wickard decision, something to do with wheat and the interstate commerce clause, really upsets laissez-faire libertarian types, because it made things that happen within state lines “interstate” by virtue of how they affect national aggregates.

(oddly, they don’t mind that the interstate transportation clause was similarly broadened by an 1804 decision about the Erie Canal, which doesn’t cross any state lines).

Oh libertarians, they never change

96 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:44:42pm
97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:47:15pm

re: #94 brandoncraig

should miscegenation laws be up to states?

That’s a “marriage law”, as you put it. Should lousiana be allowed to prevent blacks and whites from marrying?

STATES RIGHTS, YEE HAW

98 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:48:19pm

re: #94 brandoncraig

The limit to the power of the state legislatures is the U.S. Constitution and the people’s right to vote them out come election time.

Man, you’re weird. You don’t even think that state legislatures are also limited by those state constitutions. Anyhoo:

Do you think a state legislature has the power to make a law saying the testimony of women is inadmissible?

Do you think a state has the power to make a law forbidding anyone from leaving its borders?

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:48:42pm

re: #96 brandoncraig

The Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, so those concepts would not be up to the individual states.

The point that I may be “trollish” is unimportant. Do you have anything to add to the actual discussion?

Well, that all depends if you’re brave enough to tell me your feelings on miscengenation laws

100 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:50:18pm

re: #96 brandoncraig

Which concepts? How does the bill of rights, which binds congress from making laws, bind the state legislatures?

101 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:52:24pm

Personally, i can’t wait to see what sort of America could result if states got to freely dictate whether blacks and whites could coexist, with zero federal authority

Because that would just turn out swimmingly I’m sure

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:54:52pm

huh, wonder if that ended that

103 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:55:56pm
104 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:56:11pm

re: #100 Obdicut

Which concepts? How does the bill of rights, which binds congress from making laws, bind the state legislatures?

Via the 14th Amendment, which the Supreme Court has held to make the Bill of Rights (or at least most of it) binding on the states. I’m not commenting on “brandoncraig“‘s ideas, I’m just trying to be helpful.

105 sagehen  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:56:28pm

re: #96 brandoncraig

The Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, so those concepts would not be up to the individual states.

The point that I may be “trollish” is unimportant. Do you have anything to add to the actual discussion?

And the Bill of Rights means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Same for the Interstate Commerce clause, and every other clause.

The Federal Government has a constitutional right to do anything the Supreme Court doesn’t specifically say they can’t.

106 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:56:33pm

re: #103 brandoncraig

2009, friend: [Link: disgrasian.com…]

This is your libertarian wonderland right here

107 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 6:59:46pm
108 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:00:39pm

re: #105 sagehen

And the Bill of Rights means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Same for the Interstate Commerce clause, and every other clause.

The Federal Government has a constitutional right to do anything the Supreme Court doesn’t specifically say they can’t.

Man, this has been fun jerking it with the troll (and he even whinged about misspellings! Classic!) but I gotta get back to work

109 sagehen  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:01:05pm

re: #103 brandoncraig

It goes without saying that state legislatures are bound by the state constitutions as interpreted by the state courts and most civil rights issues are covered by the U.S. Constitution and other federal laws that have been found to be constitutional.

I’m not arguing for an all powerful state government. My argument is in favor of federalism and that local governments should be in charge of issues like education.

The Supreme Court determined in 1967 that miscegenation laws were unconstitutional, so that is issue has been settled.

Btw, you misspelled miscegenation which is fine by me but if I had done that your next 10 posts would have been about my spelling.

And the Supreme Court determined in 1973 that abortion is a constitutional right, but that doesn’t seem to have convinced some people.

110 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:01:47pm

re: #105 sagehen

And the Bill of Rights means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Same for the Interstate Commerce clause, and every other clause.

The Federal Government has a constitutional right to do anything the Supreme Court doesn’t specifically say they can’t.

However, it should normally not act if the action isn’t within the normal federal sphere. The states should be given a great deal of deference, though that should not be stretched to the toleration of abuse.

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:03:55pm

re: #109 sagehen

And the Supreme Court determined in 1973 that abortion is a constitutional right, but that doesn’t seem to have convinced some people.

game set match

112 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:06:11pm
113 Four More Tears  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:07:32pm

Wait, this thread is still living?

114 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:10:56pm

re: #107 brandoncraig

Since the 1890s, the Supreme Court has ruled many times that the provisions of the Bill of Rights also apply to the state governments.

Before this time, many people argued they did not and in the 1830s the Supreme Court ruled (Barron v. Baltimore) that the Bill of Rights only applied to the federal government.

How many times are you planning on contradicting yourself?

First you say that the Constitution would limit state governments, then you say it wouldn’t.

re: #103 brandoncraig

It goes without saying that state legislatures are bound by the state constitutions as interpreted by the state courts and most civil rights issues are covered by the U.S. Constitution and other federal laws that have been found to be constitutional.

Why does it ‘go without saying’ when your original argument was all about how Congress used to restrain itself to the powers in Article 1, section 8?

I’m not arguing for an all powerful state government. My argument is in favor of federalism and that local governments should be in charge of issues like education.

You actually did argue that legislatures would have all powers not reserved for the Federal government.

The Supreme Court determined in 1967 that miscegenation laws were unconstitutional, so that is issue has been settled.

So has the issue of the general welfare clause and commerce clause, yet you don’t appear to think so.

Btw, you misspelled miscegenation which is fine by me but if I had done that your next 10 posts would have been about my spelling.

You want a martyr cookie?

115 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:23:01pm
116 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:25:25pm

re: #115 brandoncraig

My point is that the federal government since the 1930s and especially since the 1960s has gotten too far away from that concept. Funding Planned Parenthood is a small example.

But your response to every case has been that things were already constitutionally settled. So what do you mean by ‘too far’?

You can’t seem to make up your mind whether the Supreme Court decides constitutionality or it doesn’t.

117 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:30:39pm
118 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:35:07pm

re: #117 brandoncraig

But why do you believe that?

119 Blizard  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:36:14pm

re: #117 brandoncraig

Why do you oppose affordable access to cervical cancer screenings, birth control, breast cancer screenings, pap smears, HIV tests, and check-ups for women?

120 Querent  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:42:29pm

re: #5 Decatur Deb

In important news, Federal sponsorship of the NASCAR team was saved.

[Link: news.google.com…]

Moral Derpitude, Exhibit A. As in Arrggh!

121 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:44:27pm
122 Querent  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:45:45pm

re: #17 webevintage
i’m probably one lizard lady who hasn’t (yet) — but when i had a job, i did send them regular contributions.
the sentiment is the same!

123 Blizard  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:50:55pm

re: #121 brandoncraig

I think Planned Parenthood has proven to be too irresponsible to get any government money.

How?

124 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:04:22pm
125 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:05:38pm

re: #121 brandoncraig

I don’t oppose affordable access to any of those services. If medical services were more marketplace driven then they would be more affordable and people could pay for them privately.

Medical services are not an elastic market, no.

If the states or local governments wish to fund those services for the poor, I’m not necessarily opposed. Although, I think Planned Parenthood has proven to be too irresponsible to get any government money.

How so?


You have yet to make any form of argument. you just assert over and over again— when you’re not saying blatantly incorrect things about the consituttion.

126 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:05:55pm

re: #124 brandoncraig

From failing to report rape victims to failure to abide by parental consent laws to some of their sex literature to minors to the fact that Margaret Sanger was a vicious racists etc.

Oh, you believe the stupid smears.

Okay.

GAZE.

127 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:06:53pm
128 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:10:00pm
129 Blizard  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:15:48pm

re: #124 brandoncraig

From failing to report rape victims to failure to abide by parental consent laws to some of their sex literature to minors to the fact that Margaret Sanger was a vicious racists etc.

Rape victims have a right to privacy.

Parental consent? You mean for abortions? Because the funding that was just taken away was not used for a single abortion. Abortion has nothing to do with what went down today. But you can keep spreading misinformation if you choose. See Title X.

Sex literature? You mean pamphlets on how to practice safe sex, preventing spread of disease, and how to properly use a condom to avoid an unwanted pregnancy, REDUCING ABORTIONS.

Okay.

130 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:16:36pm

Excuse me while I take out the garbage.

131 Blizard  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:17:04pm

Yeah, my bad for quoting him, too. Wowzahs.

132 Blizard  Fri, Feb 18, 2011 8:18:34pm

Delete my stuff too Charles, sorry for quoting just got really…well, you know…


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