Protest Sign of the Day: ‘If You Want a Republican to Care About You, Remain a Fetus’
Saying it like it is
Politics • Views: 29,984
247 comments
2 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:00:08pm |
Yep, because once you're out of the womb, unless you have a silver spoon in your mouth, you're SOL.
| 3 |
Four More Tears Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:00:27pm |
'If You Want a Republican to Care About You, Remain a Fetus'
I tried, man, I tried...
| 6 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:02:07pm |
'If You Want a Republican to Care About You, Remain a Fetus'
Bonus points for white, Christian and wealthy.
| 7 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:03:51pm |
| 8 |
albusteve Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:04:48pm |
| 9 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:04:50pm |
Wow not only a valid point but it's correctly spelled also!
| 10 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:08:22pm |
worse even
Washington, D.C. - Congressman Charles A. Gonzalez (TX – 20) denounced the Republicans’ irresponsible spending plan that makes devastating health care cuts, including $61 million to prenatal care for mothers and children and $1.3 billion from Community Health Centers.
| 11 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:11:37pm |
re: #10 engineer dog
worse even
Washington, D.C. - Congressman Charles A. Gonzalez (TX – 20) denounced the Republicans’ irresponsible spending plan that makes devastating health care cuts, including $61 million to prenatal care for mothers and children and $1.3 billion from Community Health Centers.
OK so point blank, we are in debt where do you cut that doesn't hurt?
| 12 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:12:37pm |
re: #11 brookly red
OK so point blank, we are in debt where do you cut that doesn't hurt?
You don't cut taxes for one.
| 13 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:13:44pm |
| 14 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:14:35pm |
re: #11 brookly red
OK so point blank, we are in debt where do you cut that doesn't hurt?
why did we spend 800 billion dollars - 800 BILLION DOLLARS - just this past december extending a tax cut for people like me who don't really need it?
| 15 |
Four More Tears Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:15:21pm |
re: #14 engineer dog
why did we spend 800 billion dollars - 800 BILLION DOLLARS - just this past december extending a tax cut for people like me who don't really need it?
Because we need them so much! We're nothing without the Producers!!!
| 16 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:15:42pm |
| 17 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:15:46pm |
re: #11 brookly red
OK so point blank, we are in debt where do you cut that doesn't hurt?
Abstinence only sex education...
| 18 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:15:53pm |
re: #14 engineer dog
why did we spend 800 billion dollars - 800 BILLION DOLLARS - just this past december extending a tax cut for people like me who don't really need it?
so they would remain in the country and continue to pay some taxes?
| 19 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:16:24pm |
re: #11 brookly red
OK so point blank, we are in debt where do you cut that doesn't hurt?
1) Cut the obvious junk.
2) Continue borrowing until cuts and taxes won't wreck the recovery.
3) When safe, match every critical dollar cut with a dollar of tax increases.
| 20 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:16:33pm |
re: #18 brookly red
Heh, they could go to Somalia and probably avoid paying any taxes.
| 21 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:16:43pm |
| 22 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:16:57pm |
re: #17 jamesfirecat
Abstinence only sex education...
OK, I agree... we just save .0002 % of the debt.
| 23 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:18:01pm |
re: #13 brookly red
OK so the producers pack up and leave... brilliant.
1989 wants its talking point back.
Do you remember the 90s at all? Slightly higher taxes (like Obama proposed) with plenty of producers neither packing nor leaving.
| 24 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:18:12pm |
re: #18 brookly red
so they would remain in the country and continue to pay some taxes?
i ain't a goin' anywhere - there isn't any other place where i can make good money like this
AND NOT WHINE ABOUT THE HIGH TAXES I PAY ON IT
sorry, tax whiners piss me off
| 25 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:18:23pm |
re: #18 brookly red
so they would remain in the country and continue to pay some taxes?
haha yeah, everyone who makes a nice living here would flee america if their taxes went back to how they were before Bush cut them, lol
| 26 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:18:40pm |
re: #11 brookly red
OK so point blank, we are in debt where do you cut that doesn't hurt?
There isn't a way to do that. No matter what happens, there's going to be pain.
| 27 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:18:53pm |
re: #24 engineer dog
sorry, tax whiners piss me off
Taxes are the price of civilization.
Anyone in the market to buy some civilization?
| 28 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:19:02pm |
re: #20 freetoken
Heh, they could go to Somalia and probably avoid paying any taxes.
or many other very nice places who would be happy to have them.
| 29 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:19:20pm |
re: #19 Decatur Deb
1) Cut the obvious junk.
2) Continue borrowing until cuts and taxes won't wreck the recovery.
3) When safe, match every critical dollar cut with a dollar of tax increases.
Exactly. It's what grownups, like the Brits, have done.
| 30 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:19:27pm |
taxes
grownups understand that if you want something, you have to pay for it
end of story
wake me up when the teabaggers become grownups
| 31 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:19:27pm |
re: #13 brookly red
OK so the producers pack up and leave... brilliant.
They're doing that already, being doing so for years. Why? Because the rest of the world is slowly industrializing and are willing to bend over backwards in whatever ways, whether it be in little/no taxes or very loose regulations, the companies want.
| 32 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:19:34pm |
re: #24 engineer dog
i ain't a goin' anywhere - there isn't any other place where i can make good money like this
AND NOT WHINE ABOUT THE HIGH TAXES I PAY ON IT
sorry, tax whiners piss me off
agreed
it's like kid stuff to me, eat your veggies and pay your taxes
I pay my taxes because dammit, the Internet was created with taxes and that's what makes me a living
if these GOP wackos were in charge of the internet when it was "young" it would have been dismantled
| 33 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:19:53pm |
re: #21 engineer dog
I just take issues one at a time, so as to not obfuscate the actual question. With or without the tax cuts from before the recession, revenues were going to go down. So can we get back to the question Brookly asked?
| 34 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:20:17pm |
re: #27 freetoken
Taxes are the price of civilization.
Anyone in the market to buy some civilization?
Fuck no, give me them Third World Blues.
///
| 35 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:20:21pm |
re: #31 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
They're doing that already, being doing so for years. Why? Because the rest of the world is slowly industrializing and are willing to bend over backwards in whatever ways, whether it be in little/no taxes or very loose regulations, the companies want.
yes and so?
| 36 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:20:39pm |
re: #26 Dark_Falcon
There isn't a way to do that. No matter what happens, there's going to be pain.
Which is why we keep hearing terms like austerity and sacrifice. Is it too much to ask for the sacrifice to be shared somewhat evenly by all Americans?
| 37 |
albusteve Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:21:04pm |
re: #14 engineer dog
why did we spend 800 billion dollars - 800 BILLION DOLLARS - just this past december extending a tax cut for people like me who don't really need it?
the idea is to stimulate investment, spending, and job growth...it works depending on a lot of other factors...anyway the govt is too fat and cumbersome...as for me, it's less about discrecianary spending than cleaning up how the govt works
| 38 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:22:05pm |
re: #33 Rightwingconspirator
I just take issues one at a time, so as to not obfuscate the actual question. With or without the tax cuts from before the recession, revenues were going to go down. So can we get back to the question Brookly asked?
save your breath.
| 39 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:22:15pm |
re: #31 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
They're doing that already, being doing so for years. Why? Because the rest of the world is slowly industrializing and are willing to bend over backwards in whatever ways, whether it be in little/no taxes or very loose regulations, the companies want.
There's also the labor, the really cheap non-unionized, non-minimum wage labor.
| 40 |
What, me worry? Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:22:53pm |
So let me get this straight. In Texas, you can carry a weapon in college and shoot young adults, but Georgia wants to make it illegal to miscarry. Rather, a woman will have to prove that her miscarriage is natural.
Is like the whole world laughing at us right now??
| 41 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:23:15pm |
re: #37 albusteve
the idea is to stimulate investment, spending, and job growth...it works depending on a lot of other factors...anyway the govt is too fat and cumbersome...as for me, it's less about discrecianary spending than cleaning up how the govt works
Still waiting for that trickle.
| 42 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:23:22pm |
re: #28 brookly red
or many other very nice places who would be happy to have them.
You do realize that many countries with very high living standards are countries which redistribute even more of a person's income than the US?
Indeed, name a major nation (i.e., not a little island get-a-way) with a high living standard that doesn't have a government that would be accused by some of having a more socialistic approach to society than the US?
Almost all leading nations have a form of socialized medicine.
Almost all leading nations have extensive welfare benefits for poor.
Almost all leading nations have extensive public education.
| 43 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:23:46pm |
re: #39 palomino
There's also the labor, the really cheap non-unionized, non-minimum wage labor.
Yeah, but they're also figuring out how to get by that. Wanna see a lettuce field turn into a ghost town? Walk up to it wearing an ICE ballcap and jacket.
| 44 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:23:51pm |
re: #39 palomino
There's also the labor, the really cheap non-unionized, non-minimum wage labor.
which sounds really fucked up, till you are unemployed
| 45 |
Gus Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:24:02pm |
re: #40 marjoriemoon
So let me get this straight. In Texas, you can carry a weapon in college and shoot young adults, but Georgia wants to make it illegal to miscarry. Rather, a woman will have to prove that her miscarriage is natural.
Is like the whole world laughing at us right now??
I'm thinking about magnets right now.
| 46 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:24:03pm |
re: #33 Rightwingconspirator
I just take issues one at a time, so as to not obfuscate the actual question. With or without the tax cuts from before the recession, revenues were going to go down. So can we get back to the question Brookly asked?
you're the one who wants to cut things to balance the budget, so please go look up federal outlays and tell me where you are going to find a trillion dollar cut that won't end up firing a few million people and hurting american industry so much that saving money on the federal budget ends up seriously damaging the american economy
look, the major outlays of the federal budget are: health care, health care, pensions for people over 65, the american military establishment, and health care - there's only about 25% left over after that
if we balance the budget tomorrow, we'll throw millions of doctors, nurses, and military contractors out of work
and what the hell will that solve?
| 47 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:24:05pm |
re: #41 recusancy
Still waiting for that trickle.
It'll come eventually, and when it does, it'll be a golden shower....
| 48 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:24:23pm |
re: #42 freetoken
You do realize that many countries with very high living standards are countries which redistribute even more of a person's income than the US?
Indeed, name a major nation (i.e., not a little island get-a-way) with a high living standard that doesn't have a government that would be accused by some of having a more socialistic approach to society than the US?
Almost all leading nations have a form of socialized medicine.
Almost all leading nations have extensive welfare benefits for poor.
Almost all leading nations have extensive public education.
so why are you still here?
| 49 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:24:30pm |
re: #41 recusancy
Still waiting for that trickle.
The only trickle we're getting is the rich, upper class pissing on our heads and telling us it's raining.
| 50 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:24:49pm |
re: #21 engineer dog
What would happen if we rolled taxes back to what they were before Kennedy cut them?
| 52 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:25:05pm |
re: #37 albusteve
the idea is to stimulate investment, spending, and job growth...it works depending on a lot of other factors...anyway the govt is too fat and cumbersome...as for me, it's less about discrecianary spending than cleaning up how the govt works
if this worked the way saint ronald reagan promised everybody it would work, it would have worked that way when W made his tax cuts
it didn't
| 53 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:25:25pm |
re: #48 brookly red
so why are you still here?
Well, I'd like to go back to Japan but they really don't cotton to outsiders just moving in.
Other than that, I rather like California.
| 54 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:25:26pm |
| 55 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:25:34pm |
re: #26 Dark_Falcon
There isn't a way to do that. No matter what happens, there's going to be pain.
or the pain could come from taxes instead of weaking the immune system of America itself (by cutting funding to health, which then creates more disease vectors, burdens our ERs further, and puts more children in danger)
personally I care a lot more about health care services being cut and then endangering the health of the country as a whole, than about some dude making $400,000 who just can't afford that extra Aston Martin this year
you gotta decide whether an America that isn't shit, diahrrea, and disease, is worth paying for
because your Republican heroes will not be there to help you when you get sick because they managed to weaken our health care system to the point where we have a disaster. No, it'll be some liberal nurse in the ER, some sweet hippie like one of my friends who'll be doing you a kindness even though you fight and vote against her ability to have union representation
Cheers, I know what side I'm on
| 56 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:26:10pm |
re: #42 freetoken
You do realize that many countries with very high living standards are countries which redistribute even more of a person's income than the US?
Indeed, name a major nation (i.e., not a little island get-a-way) with a high living standard that doesn't have a government that would be accused by some of having a more socialistic approach to society than the US?
Almost all leading nations have a form of socialized medicine.
Almost all leading nations have extensive welfare benefits for poor.
Almost all leading nations have extensive public education.
True that. Those countries have made the decision to prioritize different things. We'll get there eventually, but please don't hold your breath. It's gonna be a while.
| 57 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:26:19pm |
re: #13 brookly red
OK so the producers pack up and leave... brilliant.
You're kidding, right? Where are the "producers" going to go? "Socialist" Europe? The ME? Japan? Venezuela?
| 58 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:26:30pm |
re: #52 engineer dog
Federal revenues did increase after the Reagan cuts. But in typical fashion for nearly every administration, spending was increased and the gains were pissed away.
| 59 |
Four More Tears Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:26:49pm |
re: #57 Talking Point Detective
You're kidding, right? Where are the "producers" going to go? "Socialist" Europe? The ME? Japan? Venezuela?
Galt's Gulch.
| 60 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:27:11pm |
re: #48 brookly red
so why are you still here?
god forbid we should try to improve anything
apparantly our poor precious and apparantly extremely delicate millionaires would curl up and die
| 61 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:27:16pm |
re: #57 Talking Point Detective
You're kidding, right? Where are the "producers" going to go? "Socialist" Europe? The ME? Japan? Venezuela?
Yazbakistan
| 62 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:27:24pm |
re: #58 Rightwingconspirator
Federal revenues did increase after the Reagan cuts. But in typical fashion for nearly every administration, spending was increased and the gains were pissed away.
Revenue increased because the economy started to recover.
| 63 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:27:50pm |
re: #44 brookly red
which sounds really fucked up, till you are unemployed
1989 now wants all of its/your talking points back.
| 64 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:27:51pm |
re: #56 palomino
True that. Those countries have made the decision to prioritize different things. We'll get there eventually, but please don't hold your breath. It's gonna be a while.
I predict some states will get there before others, and you'll start to see some wild demographic shifts
| 65 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:28:09pm |
re: #58 Rightwingconspirator
Federal revenues did increase after the Reagan cuts. But in typical fashion for nearly every administration, spending was increased and the gains were pissed away.
federal revenues increase every year short of a major depression
spending was increased and it bought a lot of military hardware and health care
| 66 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:28:33pm |
re: #62 recusancy
Revenue increased because the economy started to recover.
Yep, then it rammed into high gear in the 90s, even after Clinton raised taxes. Imagine that.
| 67 |
What, me worry? Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:28:37pm |
re: #42 freetoken
You do realize that many countries with very high living standards are countries which redistribute even more of a person's income than the US?
Indeed, name a major nation (i.e., not a little island get-a-way) with a high living standard that doesn't have a government that would be accused by some of having a more socialistic approach to society than the US?
Almost all leading nations have a form of socialized medicine.
Almost all leading nations have extensive welfare benefits for poor.
Almost all leading nations have extensive public education.
Israelis pay huge taxes. Most of it goes to defense, of course, and includes all the things you mention.
| 68 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:28:57pm |
re: #18 brookly red
so they would remain in the country and continue to pay some taxes?
In the late 50s-early 60s, jointly held stock companies carried 30 to 40 per cent of the tax burden in the West. This was hardly a difficult time for them nor for most people.
By the early 90s they carried 10 to 15 per cent. Times are good for them still. But not for the rest of us.
| 69 |
thatthatisis Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:29:15pm |
The American economy - where a CEO rif's the jobs of a thousand people earning $50,000 a year, thus saving the company money by outsourcing those jobs to people in India who make $15,000 a year.
And for moving thousands of jobs outside the US, the CEO gets a $10 million bonus, and is hailed by Republicans for producing jobs, and gets his taxes cut.
Of course, if the CEO fails to save money, his board fires him, and pays him $20 million to go away.
I love American business.
| 70 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:29:16pm |
re: #33 Rightwingconspirator
I just take issues one at a time, so as to not obfuscate the actual question. With or without the tax cuts from before the recession, revenues were going to go down. So can we get back to the question Brookly asked?
saying that it is only about cutting spending while at the same time refusing to think about paying for it is obfuscating the question
| 71 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:29:47pm |
re: #48 brookly red
so why are you still here?
Probably because he was born here, loves people who live here, works/studies here, believes in America's promise, etc.
Your tasteless cheap shot reeks of the worst brand of populism--"America, love it or leave it."
| 72 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:30:04pm |
re: #48 brookly red
so why are you still here?
I know why I'm still here, because Portland rocks
It's a pity a lot of Americans elect rank morons to represent them, but at the end of the day, the guys that represent me in PDX and in the House are cool, so I'm cool
| 73 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:30:12pm |
re: #46 engineer dog
You are still dodging his question. I'll taker your dodge as an answer in itself. You have no answer. What I would propose is a sane link between revenues and spending. If you want to expand safety nets in rich times fine. Expand military spending and public sector hires, fine. But be prepared to reverse some of that when revenues fall, as they sometimes will. What is so wrong with that?
| 74 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:30:38pm |
re: #67 marjoriemoon
Israelis pay huge taxes. Most of it goes to defense, of course, and includes all the things you mention.
You know what would be sad?
If we spend more proportionally on the military (IE Military spending against total expenditures) than Israel does...
| 75 |
bratwurst Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:30:46pm |
re: #71 palomino
Probably because he was born here, loves people who live here, works/studies here, believes in America's promise, etc.
Your tasteless cheap shot reeks of the worst brand of populism--"America, love it or leave it."
Coming next: "if you love those other countries so much, why don't you marry them?"
| 76 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:30:48pm |
re: #65 engineer dog
True. They pissed away the revenue gains. No argument there.
| 77 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:31:06pm |
re: #26 Dark_Falcon
There isn't a way to do that. No matter what happens, there's going to be pain.
So who has the best resistance to the pain? Who is in the best position to absorb it?
Those living on the edges of society? The millions of working poor? The middle class?
| 78 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:31:17pm |
re: #67 marjoriemoon
Israelis pay huge taxes. Most of it goes to defense, of course, and includes all the things you mention.
conservatives love Israel so much they wouldn't dare touch half the things Israelis take for granted
OH MAN THEY LET GAYS IN THE MILITARY? WHOA NO WAY
| 79 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:31:23pm |
re: #69 thatthatisis
The American economy - where a CEO rif's the jobs of a thousand people earning $50,000 a year, thus saving the company money by outsourcing those jobs to people in India who make $15,000 a year.
And for moving thousands of jobs outside the US, the CEO gets a $10 million bonus, and is hailed by Republicans for producing jobs, and gets his taxes cut.
Of course, if the CEO fails to save money, his board fires him, and pays him $20 million to go away.
I love American business.
It's what my governor (MI) did when he was at HP.
| 80 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:31:45pm |
re: #70 engineer dog
The question was about spending. Why not address it?
| 81 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:31:51pm |
re: #13 brookly red
OK so the producers pack up and leave... brilliant.
Leave for where, Galt's Gulch? Newsflash: nobody wants to live in a ditch.
| 82 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:32:02pm |
re: #71 palomino
Probably because he was born here, loves people who live here, works/studies here, believes in America's promise, etc.
Your tasteless cheap shot reeks of the worst brand of populism--"America, love it or leave it."
I'll be damned if the pigs are going to force me out of my country. The country can turn beet red but for the west coast, I'll still be right here :D
| 83 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:32:26pm |
re: #73 Rightwingconspirator
You are still dodging his question. I'll taker your dodge as an answer in itself. You have no answer. What I would propose is a sane link between revenues and spending. If you want to expand safety nets in rich times fine. Expand military spending and public sector hires, fine. But be prepared to reverse some of that when revenues fall, as they sometimes will. What is so wrong with that?
you go ahead and find a trillion dollars a year to cut without killing the health care and military industry
why do republicans ask democrats to get serious about cutting constantly, when they never propose serious cuts themselves? i'm getting really tired of it...
| 84 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:32:43pm |
re: #83 engineer dog
you go ahead and find a trillion dollars a year to cut without killing the health care and military industry
why do republicans ask democrats to get serious about cutting constantly, when they never propose serious cuts themselves? i'm getting really tired of it...
ding
| 85 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:03pm |
re: #73 Rightwingconspirator
You are still dodging his question. I'll taker your dodge as an answer in itself. You have no answer. What I would propose is a sane link between revenues and spending. If you want to expand safety nets in rich times fine. Expand military spending and public sector hires, fine. But be prepared to reverse some of that when revenues fall, as they sometimes will. What is so wrong with that?
let's see your trillion dollars of cuts
| 86 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:08pm |
re: #78 WindUpBird
conservatives love Israel so much they wouldn't dare touch half the things Israelis take for granted
OH MAN THEY LET GAYS IN THE MILITARY? WHOA NO WAY
Well we do to now... more or less...
| 87 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:13pm |
re: #58 Rightwingconspirator
Federal revenues did increase after the Reagan cuts. But in typical fashion for nearly every administration, spending was increased and the gains were pissed away.
Revenue gains as a % of GDP were relatively low under Reagan's administration. It wasn't merely spending that cause his administration to perform so badly with respect to debt accumulation.
| 88 |
What, me worry? Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:15pm |
re: #74 jamesfirecat
You know what would be sad?
If we spend more proportionally on the military (IE Military spending against total expenditures) than Israel does...
Well, they have to obviously. They're involved in a continuous war so it's a different thing.
| 89 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:30pm |
re: #86 jamesfirecat
Well we do to now... more or less...
we do, but conservatives are largely still against it
| 90 |
albusteve Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:36pm |
re: #82 WindUpBird
I'll be damned if the pigs are going to force me out of my country. The country can turn beet red but for the west coast, I'll still be right here :D
the beets are on the loose
| 91 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:48pm |
re: #81 goddamnedfrank
Leave for where, Galt's Gulch? Newsflash: nobody wants to live in a ditch.
But it'll be a paradise, because it'll be full of the producers, and all the miraculous benefits they give to society will be concentrated in a huge ball of overwhelming wonderfulness.
Won't somebody think of the producers?
| 92 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:33:55pm |
re: #83 engineer dog
Ask a republican. And where did I propose a trillion in cuts exactly?
| 93 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:34:05pm |
re: #42 freetoken
You do realize that many countries with very high living standards are countries which redistribute even more of a person's income than the US?
Indeed, name a major nation (i.e., not a little island get-a-way) with a high living standard that doesn't have a government that would be accused by some of having a more socialistic approach to society than the US?
Almost all leading nations have a form of socialized medicine.
Almost all leading nations have extensive welfare benefits for poor.
Almost all leading nations have extensive public education.
Thinking now of the first blog post I made last week. First time in almost two years but I had to say it: Aristocrats, democrats and barbarians.
| 94 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:34:10pm |
re: #90 albusteve
the beets are on the loose
I've never liked beets haha
my mother told me it was cranberry sauce
A LIE
| 95 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:34:24pm |
re: #91 Renaissance_Man
But it'll be a paradise, because it'll be full of the producers, and all the miraculous benefits they give to society will be concentrated in a huge ball of overwhelming wonderfulness.
Won't somebody think of the producers?
springtime...
| 96 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:34:49pm |
re: #80 Rightwingconspirator
The question was about spending. Why not address it?
i think you should balance your household budget by cutting out food and toys for the kids
after all, the question was about spending, not figuring out how to pay for the things you need
but, by all means, please produce your detailed plan to balance the federal budget
| 97 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:34:55pm |
re: #91 Renaissance_Man
But it'll be a paradise, because it'll be full of the producers, and all the miraculous benefits they give to society will be concentrated in a huge ball of overwhelming wonderfulness.
Won't somebody think of the producers?
| 98 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:35:05pm |
re: #88 marjoriemoon
Well, they have to obviously. They're involved in a continuous war so it's a different thing.
I'm saying it'd be sad if even given Israel's situation they manage to do so while spending less of their total budget on the military than we do...
Is that more clear?
| 99 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:35:06pm |
re: #85 engineer dog
let's see your trillion dollars of cuts
Oh and how much of that trillion is interest on past debt?
| 101 |
What, me worry? Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:35:42pm |
re: #78 WindUpBird
conservatives love Israel so much they wouldn't dare touch half the things Israelis take for granted
OH MAN THEY LET GAYS IN THE MILITARY? WHOA NO WAY
That's the irony isn't it. They support Israel for moral reasons, basically, and that's a good thing. But their government policies are against everything the GOP stands for.
| 102 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:36:05pm |
re: #91 Renaissance_Man
But it'll be a paradise, because it'll be full of the producers, and all the miraculous benefits they give to society will be concentrated in a huge ball of overwhelming wonderfulness.
Won't somebody think of the producers?
The cast is great
The script is swell
But this I'm telling you sir,
It's just all blow
You've got no show
Without the Producers!
| 103 |
garhighway Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:36:24pm |
re: #18 brookly red
so they would remain in the country and continue to pay some taxes?
Was there an exodus of "producers" during the Clinton years when tax rates were just a little higher?
Has there been any credible research indicating that a modest bump in the top marginal rate drives people away?
| 104 |
CuriousLurker Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:36:27pm |
I've gotta go. Have a good night, everyone.
| 105 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:37:04pm |
according to right wing economic theory, all the other countries in the civilized world went broke several decades ago
so all those toyotas, ferraris, and mecerdes benzes are fig newtons of your imagination
| 106 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:37:21pm |
re: #96 engineer dog
Okay now that I'm taking heat for merely proposing a link between revenues and spending like any smart individual, or responsible family. or successful business, I've done my best to make my point. Take it or leave it, it's a big internet.
| 107 |
Gus Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:37:23pm |
re: #83 engineer dog
you go ahead and find a trillion dollars a year to cut without killing the health care and military industry
why do republicans ask democrats to get serious about cutting constantly, when they never propose serious cuts themselves? i'm getting really tired of it...
The fun part begins when you start getting black budgets you can't audit or review.
| 108 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:37:42pm |
re: #105 engineer dog
according to right wing economic theory, all the other countries in the civilized world went broke several decades ago
so all those toyotas, ferraris, and mecerdes benzes are fig newtons of your imagination
Mm.... fig newtons....
| 109 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:38:43pm |
re: #99 Rightwingconspirator
Oh and how much of that trillion is interest on past debt?
about 6% most years
of course, after the irresponsible reagan tax cuts it briefly went up to 10%, but david stockman told us not to worry because ronald reagan had proven that deficits don't matter
REMEMBER?
| 110 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:38:54pm |
| 111 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:39:37pm |
re: #106 Rightwingconspirator
Okay now that I'm taking heat for merely proposing a link between revenues and spending like any smart individual, or responsible family. or successful business, I've done my best to make my point. Take it or leave it, it's a big internet.
right - i was trying to talk about revenues, and you were insisting that "the conversation was about spending"
| 112 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:39:54pm |
re: #64 WindUpBird
I predict some states will get there before others, and you'll start to see some wild demographic shifts
Absolutely. Sometimes we forget that we're probably the most diverse nation on earth--culturally, ethnically, demographically--at least by some metrics. And that diversity is reflected regionally. Which means, as you suggest, that some states are so far removed from others that they look like different countries. I guess it really shouldn't be surprising that governing in such circumstances at the federal level is damn near impossible.
| 113 |
Gus Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:40:03pm |
re: #101 marjoriemoon
That's the irony isn't it. They support Israel for moral reasons, basically, and that's a good thing. But their government policies are against everything the GOP stands for.
Heck even with regards to women in the military. Israel has been ahead of us in that regard for decades now. They also had a transsexual singer, Dana International, that became rather famous in Israel (worldwide as well). You'd never see that happen in the USA.
| 114 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:40:10pm |
sorry I was on the phone... now back to the battle
| 115 |
What, me worry? Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:40:15pm |
re: #98 jamesfirecat
I'm saying it'd be sad if even given Israel's situation they manage to do so while spending less of their total budget on the military than we do...
Is that more clear?
I don't think so LOL Proportionately? Per capita? I don't know how you figure it, but they still pay far more than we do. They also export weapons and all kinds of military equipment. A lot of it goes to R&D too.
| 116 |
prairiefire Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:41:04pm |
OT ~ Has anybody been following the dropping of Thor's Hammer at RedState/ Lots of long time posters now banned for ginning the recommend list and conspiracy theories.
| 117 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:41:22pm |
re: #91 Renaissance_Man
But it'll be a paradise, because it'll be full of the producers, and all the miraculous benefits they give to society will be concentrated in a huge ball of overwhelming wonderfulness.
Won't somebody think of the producers?
Who is John Galt?
| 118 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:41:32pm |
re: #82 WindUpBird
I'll be damned if the pigs are going to force me out of my country. The country can turn beet red but for the west coast, I'll still be right here :D
I'm on the left coast with you on that one, brother.
| 119 |
What, me worry? Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:41:35pm |
re: #113 Gus 802
Heck even with regards to women in the military. Israel has been ahead of us in that regard for decades now. They also had a transsexual singer, Dana International, that became rather famous in Israel (worldwide as well). You'd never see that happen in the USA.
So much for moral reasons :>
| 120 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:41:46pm |
re: #111 engineer dog
Brookly's question was what I referred to. Past that see my 106 and 73.
| 121 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:42:08pm |
re: #114 brookly red
sorry I was on the phone... now back to the battle
Great. Now you can explain where the "producers" are going to move to.
| 122 |
ProMayaLiberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:42:20pm |
re: #73 Rightwingconspirator
Safety Nets are supposed to be there when things go bad. So, what you're proposing is that the safety net be cut when it is needed the most. That makes no sense. We shouldn't be orcing the least among us to pay for the overall motion of an economy, especially when it was things out of their control that caused the economic disaster.
| 123 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:42:52pm |
re: #103 garhighway
Was there an exodus of "producers" during the Clinton years when tax rates were just a little higher?
Has there been any credible research indicating that a modest bump in the top marginal rate drives people away?
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
| 124 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:43:32pm |
re: #90 albusteve
the beets are on the loose
yeah, but they're too dumb to know that their numbers are shrinking while other groups continue to grow. Demographics don't lie.
| 125 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:43:57pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
| 126 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:43:58pm |
sorry to be angry, but i spent a lot of time in the 80s arguing with republicans that ronald reagan was unbalancing the budget, and that the deficit was getting out of control, and that it was irresponsible to push this debt down the road onto future generations
and republicans told me that "democrats just don't understand economics", and that "ronald reagan proved that deficits don't matter"
you see, because ronald reagan understood that cutting taxes and expanding military spending enormously - remember that part? - was the best way to grow the economy, the result was going to be an "economic expansion the likes of which we've never seen", and this was gonna take care of all of those nasty deficits you democrats are stupidly bringing up...
| 127 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:44:31pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
Let's stay on topic, shall we? Where are the "producers" going to move to? You obviously are deeply concerned about the government stealing your hard-earned dollars. Where are you going to move if your taxes go up by, say, 10% on your earnings above, say, $500,000?
| 128 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:44:57pm |
re: #121 Talking Point Detective
Great. Now you can explain where the "producers" are going to move to.
OK for example Texas & Florida have no stat income tax... and they are doing quite well. Coincidence?
| 129 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:44:58pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
but who does the government belong to?
presumably us
| 130 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:45:05pm |
re: #78 WindUpBird
conservatives love Israel so much they wouldn't dare touch half the things Israelis take for granted
OH MAN THEY LET GAYS IN THE MILITARY? WHOA NO WAY
Isn't Israel, like most of the developed world, filled with what tea partiers would call communism, Marxism, Obamaism, or whatever Rush said yesterday?
| 131 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:45:21pm |
I Won't Hatch!
Oh, I am a chickie who lives in an egg.
but I will not hatch, I will not hatch.
The hens they all cackle, the roosters all beg,
But I will not hatch, I will not hatch.
For I hear all the talk of pollution and more
As the people all shout and the airplanes roar.
So I'm staying in here
where it's safe
and it's warm.
And
I WILL NOT HATCH!
Shel Silverstein
| 132 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:45:39pm |
| 133 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:45:47pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
Is a man not entitled to the SWEAT OF HIS BROW while the rest of us get fingered by the invisible hand of the market?
I bet you are gonna run out and see Who is John Galt?
| 134 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:45:54pm |
re: #128 brookly red
OK for example Texas & Florida have no stat income tax... and they are doing quite well. Coincidence?
Texas is doing well? You might want to check on that and reconsider.
| 135 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:46:03pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
What do you make?
| 136 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:46:21pm |
| 137 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:46:55pm |
re: #40 marjoriemoon
So let me get this straight. In Texas, you can carry a weapon in college and shoot young adults, but Georgia wants to make it illegal to miscarry. Rather, a woman will have to prove that her miscarriage is natural.
Is like the whole world laughing at us right now??
Technically, I think you can carry a weapon, but shooting young adults is still illegal.
| 138 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:46:55pm |
re: #133 webevintage
Is a man not entitled to the SWEAT OF HIS BROW while the rest of us get fingered by the invisible hand of the market?
I bet you are gonna run out and see Who is John Galt?
no I have a bible...
| 139 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:46:56pm |
re: #128 brookly red
OK for example Texas & Florida have no stat income tax... and they are doing quite well. Coincidence?
Huh?
Looks like TX has got quite a large deficit....
| 140 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:47:01pm |
re: #83 engineer dog
you go ahead and find a trillion dollars a year to cut without killing the health care and military industry
why do republicans ask democrats to get serious about cutting constantly, when they never propose serious cuts themselves? i'm getting really tired of it...
You can't make serious meaningful cuts when 88% of the budget is essentially off limits. There's only so much we can cut from the remaining 12%, which is all domestic discretionary spending.
| 141 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:47:17pm |
re: #128 brookly red
OK for example Texas & Florida have no stat income tax... and they are doing quite well. Coincidence?
But beyond that - we're talking about the federal debt. Where are the "producers" going to move to if taxes on the extremely wealthy are raised?
| 142 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:47:43pm |
re: #133 webevintage
Is a man not entitled to the SWEAT OF HIS BROW while the rest of us get fingered by the invisible hand of the market?
I bet you are gonna run out and see Who is John Galt?
Its more like one invisible finger in your income and two in your expenditures.... that's why it such a shocker to your finances....
| 143 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:47:53pm |
| 144 |
jaunte Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:48:01pm |
re: #139 webevintage
Huh?
Looks like TX has got quite a large deficit...
The Texas budget is expected to run a $27 billion two-year budget shortfall according to just-released state estimates.
[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]
| 145 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:48:10pm |
re: #103 garhighway
Was there an exodus of "producers" during the Clinton years when tax rates were just a little higher?
Has there been any credible research indicating that a modest bump in the top marginal rate drives people away?
All we need to do is cut taxes to zero, and then everyone in the world will want to live here. It's so simple, why don't you understand?
| 146 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:48:21pm |
re: #122 ProLifeLiberal
Please note I included military spending and public sector hiring too. Please do not lump me in with those who would gut safety nets and keep the military spending so high as well as being unwilling to trim hours or hires in the public sector.
As to your other quite valid point-If the safety nets were lower at a previous point in time at lower revenues... Were the safety nets so inadequate then too? I would think not, but then I would also propose saving some cash in high revenue years to help sustain safety nets during poor revenue years.
| 147 |
BongCrodny Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:48:47pm |
re: #128 brookly red
OK for example Texas & Florida have no stat income tax... and they are doing quite well. Coincidence?
That would be the Texas with the 27 billion dollar deficit, and Florida with the 11.6% unemployment rate you're talking about, correct?
| 148 |
BongCrodny Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:49:12pm |
re: #144 jaunte
The Texas budget is expected to run a $27 billion two-year budget shortfall according to just-released state estimates.
[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]
Jinx!
| 149 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:49:41pm |
re: #105 engineer dog
according to right wing economic theory, all the other countries in the civilized world went broke several decades ago
so all those toyotas, ferraris, and mecerdes benzes are fig newtons of your imagination
Somehow Germany, despite all its alleged communism, still leads the world in total value of exports. Thank God they got rid of all their unions.
| 150 |
ProMayaLiberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:49:52pm |
re: #126 engineer dog
Honestly, Reagan is the most over-rated President we've had. He created a truly immense amount of debt, allowed the religious right to become a major part of American Politics, and his big scandal made the Watergate Break-ins look tiny. While the Watergate break-ins were certainly illegal, unlike Iran-Contra, nobody ended up dead because of Weapons being shipped to cartels.
And that's not even touching on the speach in Philadelphia, MS, among other similar issues.
| 151 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:49:57pm |
re: #93 Romantic Heretic
Good entry to turn into a Page here!
I agree with you - the Tea Partiers really don't understand civilization.
| 152 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:50:07pm |
re: #125 jamesfirecat
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
Scabby on my knee!
Chocolate's better than grapes!
Hurry up Mr. B. Angel's don't wait for slowpokes.
| 153 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:50:08pm |
re: #141 Talking Point Detective
But beyond that - we're talking about the federal debt. Where are the "producers" going to move to if taxes on the extremely wealthy are raised?
well on other threads people complain about China, India, and other places for jobs... I guess the wealthy can move where they wish.
| 154 |
garhighway Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:51:34pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
So is that a "no, there is no such research?" Or "no, there was no exodus of taxpayers from 1992 - 2000"?
Seriously, if you exist in a vacuum where none of what you earn is due to the fact that you live in a civil society that provides laws and a legal context within which you can live and earn, then yes, your money is all yours and you owe no government anything. I'm sure Somalia is lovely this time of year, and their taxes are really, really low. Let us know what it's like.
But is there some sort of "right" to have the top marginal rate where Bush set it? Has that number become a property right? I don't think so. And it is irrefutable that our nation did really well during periods with higher rates.
| 155 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:51:51pm |
re: #147 BongCrodny
That would be the Texas with the 27 billion dollar deficit, and Florida with the 11.6% unemployment rate you're talking about, correct?
No, you're talking about the stupid little reality-based Texas and Florida. Instead, we should be looking at the cultiverse Texas and Florida, which are magical places where producers live and things are awesome except for how they're still part of the US and thus the evil Feds keep tyrannising them with their tyranny and Democrats and tyranny.
| 156 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:52:07pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
Yes, if you want a govt that actually does anything.
And now 1989 wants one more of its worn out talking points back.
| 157 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:52:17pm |
re: #152 goddamnedfrank
Scabby on my knee!
Chocolate's better than grapes!
Hurry up Mr. B. Angel's don't wait for slowpokes.
Even daddy's toys have toys!
Daddy is giving you stars and birdies!
Marshmallows!
| 158 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:52:46pm |
re: #153 brookly red
well on other threads people complain about China, India, and other places for jobs... I guess the wealthy can move where they wish.
You said that if taxes were raised, the "producers" would move. Where are they going to move to? China? Really? India? Really?
Do you have a realistic answer?
| 159 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:53:10pm |
re: #156 palomino
Yes, if you want a govt that actually does anything.
And now 1989 wants one more of its worn out talking points back.
well actually I would prefer a govt that did less...
| 160 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:53:36pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
It's easy to understand.
It is also a false notion.
Everyday you wake up there is a call upon your 24 hours - by the people around you, your society.
You don't belong entirely to yourself.
| 161 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:53:52pm |
ok, here is a little primer
american citizens are the owners of the federal government. we hold votes that decide who we will delegate to run it, and if we don't like what they do we all have a say in voting them out
it's a myth that the federal government has been imposed on us by alien dictators from the alpha centurai nebula
most of what we decide to spend our tax money on is health care, the military, and pensions
all of that money goes to actual people, who, in turn, actually go out and spend it on other things - in other words, it's a myth that the money that the government spends is burnt up by a troll and never seen again
is this clear?
| 162 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:54:06pm |
re: #141 Talking Point Detective
But beyond that - we're talking about the federal debt. Where are the "producers" going to move to if taxes on the extremely wealthy are raised?
They're not going anywhere. This is a poorly repackaged Limbaugh slogan.
| 163 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:54:09pm |
re: #158 Talking Point Detective
You said that if taxes were raised, the "producers" would move. Where are they going to move to? China? Really? India? Really?
Do you have a realistic answer?
no not anything you would believe so I won't bother...
| 164 |
garhighway Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:54:52pm |
re: #153 brookly red
well on other threads people complain about China, India, and other places for jobs... I guess the wealthy can move where they wish.
But is there any actual, honest-to-God evidence that any such thing has happened in any meaningful way? Or could it just be a sad, tired talking point?
| 165 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:55:10pm |
re: #147 BongCrodny
That would be the Texas with the 27 billion dollar deficit, and Florida with the 11.6% unemployment rate you're talking about, correct?
FL is in great shape...only 47% of its mortgages are underwater. It's a real economic miracle.
| 166 |
McSpiff Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:55:41pm |
| 167 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:56:14pm |
re: #160 freetoken
It's easy to understand.
It is also a false notion.
Everyday you wake up there is a call upon your 24 hours - by the people around you, your society.
You don't belong entirely to yourself.
yes and so? I pay my taxes. Maybe I want less people around me?
| 168 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:56:44pm |
re: #144 jaunte
The Texas budget is expected to run a $27 billion two-year budget shortfall according to just-released state estimates.
[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]
The funniest, most ironic part about this is the timing of those reports--just after Gov. Goodhair's book touting the "TX economic miracle" came out. Yee hah!
| 169 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:57:10pm |
re: #165 palomino
FL is in great shape...only 47% of its mortgages are underwater. It's a real economic miracle.
And man, that Rick Scott is fixing to make it a medical con man's paradise.....
| 170 |
ProMayaLiberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:57:15pm |
re: #146 Rightwingconspirator
I'll be completely honest. I want to see the US become more Scandinavian in terms of Welfare. Do they have higher taxes? Yes. However, the economies are usually doing very well, and the poverty rate is low. They are among the most developed countries in the world. So, to me, the Republicans are despicable. I'll admit that I have occasionally gone after those who call themselves religious of any stripe and want to gut the safety (or in some cases other issues) to the point of saying that they a) don't act it, or b) are a disgrace to God. I can become real hyperbolic in an argument when pushed.
| 171 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:57:26pm |
re: #163 brookly red
no not anything you would believe so I won't bother...
You stated they would move - I'm asking where? You said China or India and I said it was unrealistic. Let me take that back and simply ask you is it really your contention that the wealthy will move to India or China if their taxes are raised?
Honest question.
| 172 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:58:02pm |
re: #163 brookly red
no not anything you would believe so I won't bother...
Perhaps we'll dine on HAM and JAMMIE... if we can't find the LILLIE-POP!
| 173 |
brookly red Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:58:17pm |
re: #166 McSpiff
"herp derp i painted myself into a corner"
Yawn.
oh it is so on... listen dude the founders did not start this great nation to create a welfare state. that is all I have to say on the matter.
| 174 |
BongCrodny Tue, Feb 22, 2011 8:58:38pm |
re: #165 palomino
FL is in great shape...only 47% of its mortgages are underwater. It's a real economic miracle.
A couple years ago, my best friend's 80-year-old dad was given a 30-year mortgage by a bank.
There's not really much more you can say after being told something like that.
| 175 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:00:22pm |
Holy shit. Glenn Beck has been sock puppeting this thread the whole time.
| 176 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:00:47pm |
re: #174 BongCrodny
A couple years ago, my best friend's 80-year-old dad was given a 30-year mortgage by a bank.
There's not really much more you can say after being told something like that.
That's not unusual..... they figure someone will take over the mortgage. That's like saying you can't buy a house at any advanced age.
| 177 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:01:07pm |
re: #159 brookly red
well actually I would prefer a govt that did less...
Then, to paraphrase you from earlier, why live in NY? It's filled with non-tea partiers who just looove big govt.
| 178 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:02:20pm |
re: #173 brookly red
oh it is so on... listen dude the founders did not start this great nation to create a welfare state. that is all I have to say on the matter.
They didn't plan on letting women vote or run for president or slaves ever being full citizens either so does really matter?
And I have a feeling that some of the founders might have felt that workhouses and prisons were not the best way to help the poor.
| 180 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:02:30pm |
re: #173 brookly red
oh it is so on... listen dude the founders did not start this great nation to create a welfare state. that is all I have to say on the matter.
Which is exactly why they wrote down that one of the few main purposes of our government was to "promote the general welfare" in the preamble to the Constitution.
| 181 |
freetoken Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:02:35pm |
re: #167 brookly red
Maybe I want less people around me?
Sorry, but with increasing population you will find more and more that you can't fulfill your want.
You had no choice to enter this world. Your parents made that decision for you. And, they made many others too. And, my parents and everybody else in our society made decisions that you live with, too.
You're not going to escape this until you die.
We have built a very complex society and that society takes a great deal of energy and cooperation among people to maintain.
You may not like it, you had no choice to enter it, and now you willingly partake of it.
So, you pay.
You pay for a government that polices the world so that millions of people spread around this globe bring you items you use everyday.
You pay for a government that takes care of other people's children (by educating them, and to some degree houses and feeds them) so there will be people working productively around you when you are too old to do so yourself.
And so on.
You're not going to find a way around this without going to a remote corner of the globe and living like a hermit. And even there you will still be reaping the benefits/costs but in a much more indirect way.
| 182 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:02:38pm |
re: #160 freetoken
It's easy to understand.
It is also a false notion.
Everyday you wake up there is a call upon your 24 hours - by the people around you, your society.
You don't belong entirely to yourself.
No no no! We are 300 million little islands with nothing connecting us as we cross the frontier. Oh, wait, the 1800's are over. Good point you make then.
| 183 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:03:04pm |
re: #173 brookly red
oh it is so on... listen dude the founders did not start this great nation to create a welfare state. that is all I have to say on the matter.
can i have your social security checks?
| 184 |
recusancy Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:03:13pm |
| 185 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:03:54pm |
re: #128 brookly red
OK for example Texas & Florida have no stat income tax... and they are doing quite well. Coincidence?
I live in Texas, no we are not. We have an HUGE budget deficit, low graduation rates, high uninsured rates, high teen pregnancy rates, etc. Our deficit is almost as big as California's and we have fewer people. We pay fees and fines our of our asses to make up for the lack of income tax. This deficit by the way, occurred on the watch of a GOP governor and GOP legislature. They have decided that the best way to deal with it is making women get sonograms to stop abortions and let college kids take guns on campus. The only reason we aren't as bad off as damn near every other Southern state is our oil.
| 186 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:04:19pm |
re: #177 palomino
Then, to paraphrase you from earlier, why live in NY? It's filled with non-tea partiers who just looove big govt.
Pizza and beer....
| 187 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:04:53pm |
re: #159 brookly red
well actually I would prefer a govt that did less...
less... army? less... interstate highways? less... hospitals? less...
| 188 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:05:16pm |
re: #163 brookly red
no not anything you would believe so I won't bother...
Alright, I'm going to bed.
I'll check back later to see if you have an answer to whether you're really contending that if their taxes are raised, say by 10% on their earnings above $500,000, wealthy people are going to move to China or India.
If you don't have an answer, then I would make the friendly suggestion that you cross "the producers will pack up and leave" off your list of talking points.
| 189 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:05:18pm |
re: #171 Talking Point Detective
You stated they would move - I'm asking where? You said China or India and I said it was unrealistic. Let me take that back and simply ask you is it really your contention that the wealthy will move to India or China if their taxes are raised?
Honest question.
If it's an honest question, you're pretty much wasting your time. You might as well argue with the Pet Rock you forgot to throw away back in 1973.
| 190 |
ProMayaLiberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:05:36pm |
re: #185 moderatelyradicalliberal
And that will eventually run out. What is the situation with the amount left in Texas anyway?
| 191 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:06:03pm |
re: #185 moderatelyradicalliberal
I live in Texas, no we are not. We have an HUGE budget deficit, low graduation rates, high uninsured rates, high teen pregnancy rates, etc. Our deficit is almost as big as California's and we have fewer people. We pay fees and fines our of our asses to make up for the lack of income tax. This deficit by the way, occurred on the watch of a GOP governor and GOP legislature. They have decided that the best way to deal with it is making women get sonograms to stop abortions and let college kids take guns on campus. The only reason we aren't as bad off as damn near every other Southern state is our oil.
Hate to break it to you, but you also have a very high poverty rate.
| 192 |
McSpiff Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:06:29pm |
re: #187 engineer dog
less... army? less... interstate highways? less... hospitals? less...
Less, you know liberal stuff. More encouraging business and stuff. It'll be better because that's what George Washington wanted
| 193 |
BongCrodny Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:06:35pm |
re: #176 Mr Pancakes
That's not unusual... they figure someone will take over the mortgage. That's like saying you can't buy a house at any advanced age.
I guess that makes sense, but at 80 you're only expected to have another 7 years or so.
I'm having a hard time getting around the concept when the person getting the mortgage will likely only be around for a fraction of the time involved.
| 194 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:08:22pm |
re: #188 Talking Point Detective
Alright, I'm going to bed.
I'll check back later to see if you have an answer to whether you're really contending that if their taxes are raised, say by 10% on their earnings above $500,000, wealthy people are going to move to China or India.
If you don't have an answer, then I would make the friendly suggestion that you cross "the producers will pack up and leave" off your list of talking points.
Gosh, I think that people that wish higher taxes on us or others ought to not claim dependents or take deductions at all for the better good..... problem solved.
/
| 195 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:08:46pm |
re: #191 Talking Point Detective
Hate to break it to you, but you also have a very high poverty rate.
That's what the "etc" was for. I knew I couldn't possibly write then all down.
| 196 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:09:06pm |
re: #113 Gus 802
Heck even with regards to women in the military. Israel has been ahead of us in that regard for decades now. They also had a transsexual singer, Dana International, that became rather famous in Israel (worldwide as well). You'd never see that happen in the USA.
Dana International was at SF Pride one year. A riotous success.
| 197 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:09:36pm |
re: #173 brookly red
oh it is so on... listen dude the founders did not start this great nation to create a welfare state. that is all I have to say on the matter.
Oh, can we stop deifying the founders? Jefferson and Franklin loved America so much that they spent half their time in France.
| 198 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:10:01pm |
re: #123 brookly red
how about the basic notion that what I make belongs to me and not the government ? Is that so hard to understand?
Some of what you make needs to go for taxes, otherwise we will have no infrastructure as a country. That's not hard to understand at all.
| 199 |
palomino Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:11:22pm |
re: #185 moderatelyradicalliberal
I live in Texas, no we are not. We have an HUGE budget deficit, low graduation rates, high uninsured rates, high teen pregnancy rates, etc. Our deficit is almost as big as California's and we have fewer people. We pay fees and fines our of our asses to make up for the lack of income tax. This deficit by the way, occurred on the watch of a GOP governor and GOP legislature. They have decided that the best way to deal with it is making women get sonograms to stop abortions and let college kids take guns on campus. The only reason we aren't as bad off as damn near every other Southern state is our oil.
As a born and bred Texan, I couldn't have said it half as well. Kudos.
| 200 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:11:24pm |
re: #197 palomino
Oh, can we stop deifying the founders? Jefferson and Franklin loved America so much that they spent half their time in France.
Oh to be seventy again!
| 201 |
Political Atheist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:11:31pm |
re: #170 ProLifeLiberal
Well said. My moderately fiscal conservative views are not popular, I think in part by being associated with rabid radical right wingers & the GOP. Or perhaps fiscal conservative is just not a well thought of position at all given recent events. That's what happens sometimes.
In equal honesty I took my best shot at making my points. I am a right wing ronin, as my profile says. I have no party to associate with. Just an indy voter with a point of view or two. I hold my positions apart from any sense of partisanship.
Be well all, it has been an interesting evening. I'll go get my sleep, and hopefully be sharp tomorrow for whatever topic is at hand next. Best to you all especially my sparring partners this evening. Yes you Engineer Dog. :-)
| 202 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:11:32pm |
re: #190 ProLifeLiberal
And that will eventually run out. What is the situation with the amount left in Texas anyway?
I'm not sure, but it did build most of the wealth we had. Once it's gone all we will have is the Alamo, really good Tex-Mex food, and the original Neiman Marcus.
| 203 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:12:10pm |
re: #147 BongCrodny
That would be the Texas with the 27 billion dollar deficit, and Florida with the 11.6% unemployment rate you're talking about, correct?
Texas is allowed to go into the red, since in their case it was clearly not caused by liberals.
| 204 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:12:11pm |
re: #191 Talking Point Detective
Hate to break it to you, but you also have a very high poverty rate.
That's what happens when an investment portfolio consists mostly of belt buckles.
| 205 |
jaunte Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:12:14pm |
re: #202 moderatelyradicalliberal
Texas has about a third of the country's natural gas reserves.
| 206 |
engineer cat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:12:23pm |
i would prefer government did less
interfering with women's health care
tapping americans' phones and reading our emails
overthrowing and attempting to administer other people's governments
maintaining very expensive semi-secret military bases in far corners of the world like diego garcia in the middle of the indian ocean
limiting immigration into this country and then pretending we don't really need 11 million hard working people who are willing to do incredibly crappy jobs
| 207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:13:50pm |
re: #153 brookly red
well on other threads people complain about China, India, and other places for jobs... I guess the wealthy can move where they wish.
The wealthy may send jobs out of the country, but it'll be the day when they move to India to avoid paying taxes on their income.
If they really want to, let them. There are smarter people in India who would like to come here.
| 208 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:13:56pm |
re: #206 engineer dog
i would prefer government did less
interfering with women's health care
tapping americans' phones and reading our emails
overthrowing and attempting to administer other people's governments
maintaining very expensive semi-secret military bases in far corners of the world like diego garcia in the middle of the indian ocean
limiting immigration into this country and then pretending we don't really need 11 million hard working people who are willing to do incredibly crappy jobs
You forgot less going after American citizens for having/growing of only mildly harmful substances when more dangerous ones are sold over the counter to any adult with an ID....
| 209 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:13:58pm |
re: #202 moderatelyradicalliberal
I'm not sure, but it did build most of the wealth we had. Once it's gone all we will have is the Alamo, really good Tex-Mex food, and the original Neiman Marcus.
Tex-Mex is pseudo Mexican food...... why they invented it is puzzling.
| 210 |
webevintage Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:14:12pm |
re: #185 moderatelyradicalliberal
The only reason we aren't as bad off as damn near every other Southern state is our oil.
Here in AR the buget is OK, BUT the R's are doing their damnedest to change that.
A few things like lowering the sales tax on used cars and taking 3% more off the grochery tax are good and will help most of us.
On the other hand they want to pass a tax break on manufacturers' gas and electric bills (not for the rest of us, just corporations) and a capital gains tax exemption which will benefit all of 2% of the population of the state and cost like 96 million.
| 211 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:14:30pm |
re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist
Texas is allowed to go into the red, since in their case it was clearly not caused by liberals.
And yet they still get blamed even though we haven't had a statewide elected Democrat in over 10 years. Good Lord, I think Utah may have bested us on that one.
| 212 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:14:54pm |
re: #167 brookly red
yes and so? I pay my taxes. Maybe I want less people around me?
I'd try someplace other than Brooklyn then.
Montana, maybe.
| 213 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:15:29pm |
re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist
Some of what you make needs to go for taxes, otherwise we will have no infrastructure as a country. That's not hard to understand at all.
Who needs infrastructure when they could have magic bootstraps instead?
| 214 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:15:43pm |
re: #180 goddamnedfrank
Which is exactly why they wrote down that one of the few main purposes of our government was to "promote the general welfare" in the preamble to the Constitution.
THAT PART DOESN'T MEAN WHAT IT SAYS!!!!
| 215 |
McSpiff Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:16:44pm |
| 216 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:16:47pm |
re: #189 palomino
If it's an honest question, you're pretty much wasting your time. You might as well argue with the Pet Rock you forgot to throw away back in 1973.
My parents still have their Pet Rock. It lives on the mantelpiece with my mother's plants.
| 217 |
ProMayaLiberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:17:49pm |
re: #215 McSpiff
I'm pretty sure India would be worse off in a swap like that.
| 218 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:18:34pm |
re: #209 Mr Pancakes
Tex-Mex is pseudo Mexican food... why they invented it is puzzling.
It tastes good, if well made. Then again, I would probably give blood for a Gordo's burrito, so what do I know?
(Still got to try the halal burrito place in Albany.)
| 219 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:20:03pm |
re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist
It tastes good, if well made. Then again, I would probably give blood for a Gordo's burrito, so what do I know?
(Still got to try the halal burrito place in Albany.)
Oh I'd chomp it....... but if you asked for fajitas in Mexico they'd say huh?
| 220 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:20:49pm |
re: #210 webevintage
Here in AR the buget is OK, BUT the R's are doing their damnedest to change that.
A few things like lowering the sales tax on used cars and taking 3% more off the grochery tax are good and will help most of us.
On the other hand they want to pass a tax break on manufacturers' gas and electric bills (not for the rest of us, just corporations) and a capital gains tax exemption which will benefit all of 2% of the population of the state and cost like 96 million.
I meant more in terms of why Texas is not considered a poor state like most other southern states are. Our not being a poor state has allowed us to mask that we have the statistics of a poor state. States like AR, MS, AL and SC catch all kinds of hell and get made fun of for being at the bottom of so many quality of life measures, but we are much better than they are. Rick Perry gets to run around talking about how awesome Texas is in terms of it's finances, business climate, and governance, but it's a crock of shit.
| 221 |
Targetpractice Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:21:09pm |
re: #180 goddamnedfrank
Which is exactly why they wrote down that one of the few main purposes of our government was to "promote the general welfare" in the preamble to the Constitution.
"It's only in the preamble, so it doesn't count! But the part about "provide for the common defense," now that definitely counts!
///
| 222 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:23:22pm |
re: #219 Mr Pancakes
Oh I'd chomp it... but if you asked for fajitas in Mexico they'd say huh?
Sure, but regional food varies from region to region--that's why it's regional.
| 223 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:23:32pm |
re: #180 goddamnedfrank
Which is exactly why they wrote down that one of the few main purposes of our government was to "promote the general welfare" in the preamble to the Constitution.
I'd be afraid a TPer would shoot me for saying that the Constitution had the word "welfare" in it. Either that or be taken out in the fallout of their spontaneous combustion.
| 224 |
jaunte Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:23:53pm |
re: #220 moderatelyradicalliberal
Rick Perry gets to run around talking about how awesome Texas is in terms of it's finances, business climate, and governance, but it's a crock of shit.
Perry doesn't hang out with the poor, so he doesn't notice.
Of the Anglo population, 8.4% is poor, while 23.8% of the African-American and 24.8% of the Hispanic populations are poor.
[Link: texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu...]
| 225 |
sagehen Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:26:06pm |
re: #209 Mr Pancakes
Tex-Mex is pseudo Mexican food... why they invented it is puzzling.
Because pure Mex is too spicy for our fragile selves, and doesn't have enough beef.
| 226 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:26:23pm |
re: #224 jaunte
Perry doesn't hang out with the poor, so he doesn't notice.
I don't think he could find his hair care products in poor neighborhoods. He may have been the best candidate, but the Democrats foolishly ran a bald guys against him.
| 227 |
jaunte Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:28:12pm |
re: #226 moderatelyradicalliberal
I think Bill White would have been a good governor; it's too bad people vote on hairdos.
| 228 |
sagehen Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:28:16pm |
re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist
It tastes good, if well made. Then again, I would probably give blood for a Gordo's burrito, so what do I know?
(Still got to try the halal burrito place in Albany.)
Next time you're in LA, try to teriyaki pastrami burrito at Oki's.
| 229 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:29:08pm |
re: #209 Mr Pancakes
Tex-Mex is pseudo Mexican food... why they invented it is puzzling.
Depends on where you go to get it. In Dallas it's awesome, hot as hell and for the most part prepared by recently arrived Mexicans. At least those are the places I go to. Then again they are all in "the hood" and not on the main tourist drags. People who are afraid of Mexicans may never find it.
| 230 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:31:02pm |
re: #227 jaunte
I think Bill White would have been a good governor; it's too bad people vote on hairdos.
I do too, but our demographics haven't kicked in and unlike Pete Wilson Governor Good Hair has been smart enough not to enrage the Latino population.
| 231 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:32:16pm |
re: #225 sagehen
Because pure Mex is too spicy for our fragile selves, and doesn't have enough beef.
Try a cabeza taco.... plenty of meat and rather tasty.
| 232 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:33:51pm |
re: #229 moderatelyradicalliberal
Depends on where you go to get it. In Dallas it's awesome, hot as hell and for the most part prepared by recently arrived Mexicans. At least those are the places I go to. Then again they are all in "the hood" and not on the main tourist drags. People who are afraid of Mexicans may never find it.
I love street tacos in TJ......... I also love Mexican hot dogs wrapped in bacon...... that, they stole from us but made better.
| 233 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:35:47pm |
re: #231 Mr Pancakes
Try a cabeza taco... plenty of meat and rather tasty.
My students were absolute freaks for the lengua tacos served out of this one unlicensed van in Richmond.
| 234 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:37:27pm |
re: #232 Mr Pancakes
I love street tacos in TJ... I also love Mexican hot dogs wrapped in bacon... that, they stole from us but made better.
My favorite are these little beef tacos with cilantro and potatoes they make at a gas station. They are like crack. No they are worse than crack. They are like Crispy Cream donuts, you look up and you ate half a dozen when you told yourself you would only eat two.
| 235 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:37:58pm |
re: #233 SanFranciscoZionist
My students were absolute freaks for the lengua tacos served out of this one unlicensed van in Richmond.
Ah..... the lengua tacos are awesome.
Tripa tacos are iffy..... depends of how well they cleaned them prior to cooking.
| 236 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:40:42pm |
re: #234 moderatelyradicalliberal
My favorite are these little beef tacos with cilantro and potatoes they make at a gas station. They are like crack. No they are worse than crack. They are like Crispy Cream donuts, you look up and you ate half a dozen when you told yourself you would only eat two.
My wife makes crunchy potato tacos..... they are great.. yes crack...... the secret is to spread a little mayonnaise in there.
| 237 |
Lidane Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:48:46pm |
re: #209 Mr Pancakes
Tex-Mex is pseudo Mexican food... why they invented it is puzzling.
I don't get it either. No one I know puts that much sour cream on anything, and honestly, authentic Mexican home cooking is so much better anyway.
| 238 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 9:53:09pm |
re: #237 Lidane
I don't get it either. No one I know puts that much sour cream on anything, and honestly, authentic Mexican home cooking is so much better anyway.
Amen sister.
| 239 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 10:03:50pm |
re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist
Sure, but regional food varies from region to region--that's why it's regional.
You are right SFZ ....... it's a regional food.
I have a different opinion on Tex-Mex now, and it makes sense...... it's not to be confused with Mexican food, it just uses some traditional elements from that culture.
| 240 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 22, 2011 10:06:13pm |
re: #151 freetoken
Good entry to turn into a Page here!
I agree with you - the Tea Partiers really don't understand civilization.
this really sums it up :D
| 241 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 22, 2011 10:06:17pm |
re: #239 Mr Pancakes
You are right SFZ ... it's a regional food.
I have a different opinion on Tex-Mex now, and it makes sense... it's not to be confused with Mexican food, it just uses some traditional elements from that culture.
Sort of like how German polka got fused with Mexican folk music in Texas, is how I see it.
| 242 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Feb 22, 2011 10:14:04pm |
re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist
Sort of like how German polka got fused with Mexican folk music in Texas, is how I see it.
You are in the know...... but I think it migrated up from Mexico to Texas. I lived that music when I lived down there. That and Mariachi music.
| 243 |
Lidane Tue, Feb 22, 2011 10:32:13pm |
re: #242 Mr Pancakes
You are in the know... but I think it migrated up from Mexico to Texas. I lived that music when I lived down there. That and Mariachi music.
Sort of. There were a lot of German, Polish and Czech immigrants in both Mexico and Texas in the 1800's, and they brought waltzes, polkas, and all that with them, so the influences were already here to an extent. However, it was the Second Mexican Revolution in 1910 that had those folks fleeing Mexico into Texas in greater numbers, and that expanded the influence on the music and culture here in Texas.
| 244 |
celticdragon Wed, Feb 23, 2011 6:09:40am |
re: #173 brookly red
oh it is so on... listen dude the founders did not start this great nation to create a welfare state. that is all I have to say on the matter.
The Founders intended this country to be run by wealthy white landowners who would hopefully represent the less educated and benighted ignorant masses.
Next?
| 245 |
Naem Wed, Feb 23, 2011 6:52:59am |
Somewhat tangential perhaps, but of the two major socioeconomic systems used in the last several decades, we've got socialism based on the prime target of need in terms of financial gain, and capitalism based on the core concept of ownership, be it via original idea implemented (patents, and the like), or physical property (plants, corporate structures, et al).
I find it puzzling that I've yet to run across a term for a system that prioritizes personal labor rewards as it's prime principal, even in terms of defunct approaches.
Are we simply not far enough away from the Industrial Age historically for a system that recognizes that the lions share of the populous no longer ends up owning their own means of production in order for such a term to be developed?
///random thoughts from pulling an all-nighter too many times in a row lately
| 246 |
William of Orange Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:53:37am |
WOW!!! This is good! Gov. Scot Walker punked by a Fake Koch brother phone call!! Sarah Palin got the same treatment months ago but this one is not only entertaining, it's potentially explosive! If this plays out the right way this is a career ending phone call, and the confirmation on how the Koch brothers are involved in this stinking mess!
www.dailykos.com...]>From Daily Kos./a>
(Via Crooks and Liars.)
Read the chilling transcript. From Gregg Sargent:
UPDATE, 11:54 a.m.: In a key detail, Walker reveals that he is, in effect, laying a trap for Wisconsin Dems. He says he is mulling inviting the Senate and Assembly Dem and GOP leaders to sit down and talk, but only if all the missing Senate Dems return to work. Then, tellingly, he reveals that the real game plan here is that if they do return, Republicans might be able to use a procedural move to move forward with their proposal. "If they're actually in session for that day and they take a recess, this 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they'd have a quorum because they started out that way," he says. "If you heard that I was going to talk to them that would be the only reason why." Then the fake Koch says this: "Bring a baseball bat. That's what I'd do." Walker doesn't bat an eye, and responds: "I have one in my office, you'd be happy with that. I've got a slugger with my name on it."12:09 p.m.: Another key exchange: FAKE KOCH: What we were thinking about the crowds was, planting some troublemakers. WALKER: We thought about that. My only gut reaction to that would be, right now, the lawmakers I talk to have just completely had it with them. The public is not really fond of this.The teachers union did some polling and focus groups... It's unclear what Walker means when he says he "thought" about planting some troublemakers, but it seems fair to ask him for clarification.
This is unbelievable. This bastard is more corrupt than Khadaffi!!
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Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
6 days ago
Views: 741 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 1,312 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 405 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1- Pictures From Today’s Exhibition of Paintings Done by Jane LilienthalPROPS TO MICHELE AND SAGEHEN FOR CATCHING THE SPELLING ERROR IN THE TITLE THAT MY DIABETIC EYES COULDN'T CATCH I wanted to share pictures of the art show I visited today. The portraits were created by the mother of my ...Joe Bacon ✅
3 weeks ago
Views: 486 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 11 
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
4 weeks ago
Views: 600 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 9
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
4 weeks ago
Views: 588 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 5
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 580 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 5- A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...KGxvi
4 weeks ago
Views: 472 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 4
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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 118 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 279 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
